Well, guessing that Joshua was just stuck on a default happy-friendly-slightly awkward setting like Joyce was right. Even so, I liked that ship. It was an adorable ship. And now Godzillis has punted it clear across the Pacific rim.
Also, is this the first strip where the title isn’t a word in the strip?
Also? Ethan? He’s serious about that bro-in-law thing… You probably don’t wanna say a comment that’s pretty much hitting-on-him territory at a time like this
Obviously not, since Ethan already got a seriously stern look, and talking to, from Amber. I’m starting to feel like this isn’t going to go away until he’s macking with another guy and Joyce is crying.
And godsdamn, I’m really starting to hate him for it.
Actually, I think Joyce will be the one to break it off. She’s been showing loads of potential for growth in just the first month of college. I mean, hell, standing up for her atheist friend in front of her fundie, bigoted parents? Wow. Ethan, on the other hand, is still as fucked up as ever. He’ll get dumped and realize with the way things are now, all he can ever be is alone.
Joshua could have been out. He might’ve been the one thing that could snap Ethan out of it. But with this blatant rejection, all Ethan’s gonna feel is hopeless.
…And so ends my incredibly depressing take on Ethan’s life. Come to think of it, I think this is why I sympathize with Ethan more than anyone else on the cast. As least the others have people. Even Sal has Marcie, and to some extent, Jason. Mike is an awful friend, and Amber certainly can’t be there for him with everything that’s going on with her now.
…Come to think of it, Amber’s pretty alone in this too. Damn, why do all the SP! people have to be so goddamned miserable?
Also, when the entire thing first started, Mike gave as clear an indication of his disapproval as he ever does. When you’ve shocked Mike, you should probably reevaluate your life.
Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to show how dysfunctional things have gotten. I really hope Ethan and Joyce break up, this relationship is doing neither of them any good, at all.
Some say you can still see the FazxDina sailing along the horizon at twilight, stern emblazoned with charts and grappling hooks for rigging.
But most people accept that it burnt to the ground while still in the drydock.
FazxDina was destroyed in drydock but not burned to the ground. We have the tools, we have the technology. We can make it stronger, faster, better…. FAZXDINA WILL BE THE MODERN MEGALODON!
Yotomoe, what’s this “we” all about? If Willis sank the Joshuthan, you were the dick on the UBoat who kept machine gunning the survivors and laughing maniacally.
No, but for some reason she seemed to be a magnet for losers. Even ended up marrying one of ’em. Didn’t last, fortunately; otherwise it wouldn’t have been “Goodbye, Earl” for real.
at least you didn’t already draw and it and were waiting for the perfect moment to unleash it upon the world EXCEPT THAT MOMENT NEVER CAME AND NOW I THINK I HAVE RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME I CAN’T STOP SHAKING FROM THE RESIDUAL EXCITEMENT AND SUBSEQUENT DISAPPOINTMENT
I figured it meant he’s been asked more than once before, and has had people surprised that he’s straight. I’d’ve probably asked too if I was a gay-or-bi dude at his college.
Is he athiest? A man who has sinned by knowing another woman outside of marriage? Did he use God’s-name-in-vain-that-one-time? IS HE COMPLETELY NORMAL!
Who friggin knows anymore.
Does everybody (except for maybe Joyce) in this strip have to be something other that plain vanilla? Even the LGBTQs themselves cite figures that say maybe 10% of the general population is something other than straight. Push the envelope a little bit, sure, but let’s not skew the stats way out of all proportion!!
Whuh? The density isn’t *that* high. Danny, Dorothy, Walky, Joe, Roz, Sal, Penny, Jason, (presumably) Dina, (presumably) Sarah, are all straight. Billie’s bi, Ethan’s gay, Ruth’s most likely lesbian, Amber has a thing for super suits and Mike lusts for human suffering and/or your mom. So there’s a lot of unusual stuff but Joyce isn’t the only straight person!
How would it be unrealistic? It’s a small group of people–the cast isn’t going to represent global trends right down to the percent, y’know?
Even if there were fifteen trans* characters in this comic, it still wouldn’t be weird because that’s only /fifteen/ people out of /seven billion/ worldwide and, like, 6.5 million in Indiana. Not exactly a huge sample, dig?
That’s what the “actually” was making me think too, it’s such an odd way to put it that I could see it being that either Joshua likes guys but is actually a straight woman born in the wrong body, or Joshua is a transvestite (and presumably Joyce has caught him in drag once or twice, and he assumes she told Ethan for him to be asking this) and the “actually” means “liking to dress in drag does not always equal gay, watch Eddie Izzard Dressed to Kill sometime Ethan, he does a whole bit about that”.
Just a heads up, but generally the terminology of ‘born in the wrong body’ is not preferred and pretty much never use the word tr*ns*xual unless someone specifically identifies that way.
This was my first thought, but I’m actually worried that he’s hiding something on the other edge of what his parents would disapprove of. Some sort of…super-fundamentalist, I dunno.
Also, quick question. How can everyone tell Ethan is gay like… right away…? Is he really effeminate or something? Because this is apparently really obvious to everyone around him.
No, no, Joyce’s gaydar can’t be broken if it was never developed. I say this from experience because, up until 3/4s through high school, neither was mine (and it still isn’t great…)
I feel like if you see a dude in America and they’re wearing clothing that can be described as “flattering”, there’s a stronger chance they’re either gay or European (or Dorothy’s boyfriend).
But seriously, I work for a British company, and some of our managers…if I just saw them on the street and didn’t hear their accents they’d throw my gaydar *way* off.
Can people like, stop? I know you’re just trying to be funny but it’s kinda fucked up. This goes for all the ‘effeminate’ jokes people were making too… It’s kinda gross and it makes me uncomfortable.
Some people just have really good gaydar? It’s a bit of an offensive and generalizing concept, really, on the whole, but hasn’t that ever happened to you that you thought someone was gay and you turned out to be right? It happens. All the time.
Absolutely! I’m just saying, it happens. It happens to me a lot. I’m quite good at this with girls, especially. Idk. Sure, you make assumptions, but that’s not even what I mean. It’s just a feeling, to me anyways. Nothing specific.
Man, I live a stone’s throw away from Portland Oregon. Statistically, I’m pretty sure everyone is either gay, vegan, or high.
I’m okay with this, as it means that there’s gay people, and that they skew supply and demand in favor of cheaper cheeseburgers for when I get the munchies.
I’m much better at that with guys than girls. I had a bit of a crush on a girl at my youth group who turned out to be a lesbian. …*pretty* sure she’s not a Catholic anymore.
I believe it mostly has to do with the fact that the instant he meets a cute guy, he straigtens up, locks into “engage flirting” mode, and immediately starts broadcasting “I FIND YOU PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE” signals.
SP! Ethan was never very subtle about checking guys out or flirting with them. I think he’s a pretty easy person to read when it comes to telling who he is attracted to no matter what his gender performance might be.
What? When was Ethan like this at all in SP!…? He didn’t do it for Thad, Drew, or Manny… Like, I mean, I guess he sorta did it with Mike, but only Mike. Ethan has never been particularly interested in romance/sex.
He’s currently working on a fan remake that will be more realistic, as well as darker and edgier. That’s why he came along to visit Joyce. It will give him a chance to meet his online writing partner in person, who also goes to this school; Buckets O’ Blood Guy!
In Josh’s fanfic, Pinkie lives with him in his mom’s basement and helps him with his problems like telling him it’s okay if he doesn’t want to get a regular job right now.
None of the paranormal stuff I have experienced has lead to believe in a god or gods. And I know christians who don’t beleive in the supernatural. It may seem paradoxical but religion and the supernatural really don’t have much to do with each other.
NO JOKE. “Man, I sure would like to be straight so I can flee my own emotional needs and the inconvenience of my situation. I know, I’ll become the boyfriend of a naive homeschooled fundie christian girl and pretend she can convert me! Then the -instant- her cute brother shows up, I’ll make a pass at him. Oooh! Then later that evening, when she’s risking her entire familial relationship, when she could use the moral support of at -least- a friend, if not her ‘boyfriend’, I’ll slip away so I can hit on her brother some more!”
I doubt he’d say it like that if he was bi. It’d prolly go a little something like this if that was the case:
Ethan: Is it… Is it because you’re gay?
Joshua: Not exactly… [blushy face] I’m… well, the possibilities are endless, you know?
Ethan: Wait, so you’re…
Joshua: Bisexual.
Ethan: Oh. [intense feelings of deja vu from the last time a cute, blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy told him he was bi]
Pan-sexuality requires some form of courtship/getting to know you period. And then maybe they can fuck. A key example of this would be the Doctor as he tends to push away everyone physically until they know each other much better.
Poly-sexuality allows for raw lustfully feelings off the bat. Like say, Captain Jack Harkness who would make woopie with literally anything if it was attractive enough
And I am saying Joshua is either asexual or transgender.
Uh, no. Your definition of pan sounds a bit closer to panromantic demisexual. Pansexuality is just loving/being attracted to someone regardless of gender. The way you’re using “polysexual” is the same thing.
As I understand it, pansexual is “sexually attracted to all genders,” polysexual is “sexually attracted to more than one gender” (so for example someone who is polysexual might be attracted to cis men and trans women but not to trans men or cis women), and polyamory is “in love with more than one person at a time.”
I’ve also heard the term “biromantic” used to mean “able to fall in love with both men and women” and that seems like a relevant distinction to me. There are bisexual people who are not biromantic.
Haven’t heard that definition of polysexual before. Actually, tbh, I’ve never heard anyone use the term in normal conversation before either. Pansexuality, as far as I can tell, seems to cover it. However, people may identify as they wish.
(polyamory isn’t necessarily being in love with multiple people at once – it just communicates a willingness or desire to be with multiple people, even if the person in question is not interested in anyone at the time)
Yeah, you DO need poly for people who’re attracted to more than two genders, but less than all of them (this is quite a large range to hit, y’know?).
Every -sexual orientation also has a -romantic counterpart. Biromantic, polyromantic, homoromantic, aromantic (NTBCW aromatic)…
I dunno, if Josh is Bi, he might have assumed Ethan was also Bi [which would explain why he’s dating his sister]. This would be pretty much exactly what Ethan did when they assumed Josh was Gay [as well as many in the Audience who were seeing it from Ethan’s perspective].
So now they’re having a wonderful moment of;
“You’re not Gay?”
“You’re not Bi? Why are you dating a girl?”
Granted there are a tonne of other possibilities and I’m interested to see where this goes.
Agreed. I think part of what makes it hard to know where Joshua’s coming from is that he may be more concerned about his sister than his own sexuality, right now. I mean, even if he was gay, wouldn’t it be an asshole move to date (or even flirt with) his *sister’s boyfriend*? He has brought up Joyce in the last two strips, and it’s clear he’s thinking that Ethan should gave been the one doing that…
Swerve what? HE DROPPED A DAMNED ICEBERG ON THE SHIP!
“Oh Captain, look at that iceberg.”
“Hm, yes Corporal Jefferies, maybe we should-”
SPLOOOSH
And the band just keeps right on playing.
Are… Are the fans the band in this analogy as we grasp onto the word “actually” and the small window of hope it has left us, despite our ship sinking about us?
Guys, this ship is so not dead. That’s the whole point of ships. They survive stuff like this. They’re fantasy and wish-fulfillment. Like, I have shipped things where one person DIED and I still ship it. This? This is nothing. I laugh in the face of a little non-gay-ness.
Like, I have shipped things where one person DIED and I still ship it. “Seemannstreue” by Joachim Ringelnatz (the link got one word wrong). There is even an animated Youtube video, but it’s lacking the grossiosity of the poem. A literal translation would be “Sailor’s faithfulness”, a fitting paraphrase “The sailor always rings twice”. Google translate would probably deliver something not half as awful as the original.
Maybe he was leading him on to test his theory that Ethan was gay in order to try and protect his little sister.
Damm, i just used a watertight argument to sink one of my favorite ships even further.
It’s fun for drama but I wouldn’t call it a water tight argument; trying to prove your sibling’s SO is gay by leading them on is pretty disfunctional.
Not to claim the Browns as bastions of functionality but I’m going to split my bet between Bi-Sexual and Terminator from the Heteronormative Future sent to the past in order to destroy Ethan and thus crush the LGTBQ resistance before it begins.
Ethan gives off the vibe in the comic, especially when he’s around Joyce.
Sara put the pieces together in all but three seconds. I sort of assumed it was a running joke in this verse that pretty much everyone but Joyce [and her parents] realized it within a minute of meeting him because he was so awkward.
His Sister is dating someone who’s outright told her he’s gay.
His Dad thinks hanging out with Atheists is basically morally equivalent to hanging out with Prostitutes and that Hitler was Probably Part Jewish.
And, well, general concensus is that his Mom is the worst of the pack.
Denial seems pretty realistic here.
My money is still on either Bi or “Heavens, no. I’m not gay, I prayed it away in summer camp years ago”.
S&M! It need not even necessarily be sexual. I can get behind MSM to some extent. Romantic and sexual attractions can be separate, and are for most people. Does having good manners turn you on or do you find it charming?
Male sexuality can be complicated. Imagine a man who is not attracted to body hair or male curves, but who enjoys being penetrated in various ways. Such a man might have sex with men for the physical feeling, without being visually attracted to men enough to consider himself gay.
So? Who says he has to be “gay” or “straight” or whatever your label scheme suggests?
He didn’t lead Ethan on. He was conversing with him, and you can pretty much see the moment he caught on to what was going on, at which point he left immediately.
Who exactly response that sort of question in this sort of context with “I’m not ACTUALLY Gay”?
As much as I love to pour gasoline on ships and laugh at the ensuing chaos, this implies to me he’s either Bi, uncover as a Gay person for a Christian Newspaper or else maybe is Gay but thinks Praying cured him?
There are so many wonderful possibilities. I’m hoping for one of the left fielders because otherwise the Brown Family situation has been smoothed over too easily.
He may not have been “faking” anything. His body language seemed a -little- flirty, but that could just be his typical demeanor. However, I -do- think he picked up on Ethan’s “Hello there, little filly” and was biding his time waiting for the question.
Who exactly response that sort of question in this sort of context with “I’m not ACTUALLY Gay”?
Well, I have a drag act. Try doing folksy music with an alto voice in straight garb, and at some point of time you’ll go tired of answering the “why are you singing like a woman” questions with “was there anything wrong with it?” or “because I can!”. Do it in drag, and you get no questions, no talkback, just a satisfied audience. Even though this is a rather straight act, no husky-voice jokes and whatever. Just multinational folklore, self-accompanied on accordion and tied together with appropriate moderation.
Then from back at a time when I practised with a gay show choir (thought I could use it for my act until I got ousted, but more due to the established tenor primadonna conspiring against the vocal usurpator than my untypical sexual orientation) I had a male dancing partner I practised occasionally with (quite fun). I actually went to a gay workshop with him where I chose, uh, not to come in? How do you call it if you try keeping your heterosexuality discretely unmentioned?
So I have my own share of situations where my personal sexual leanings are entirely disappointingly straight. If I don’t want to feel left out, I claim that I am a transsexual lesbian since I’m comfortable being male even though I’m into women.
Oh my aching shipper’s heart.
and yet its probably for the best that Joshuthan can’t happen. Because poor Joyce if that ended up happening. Its one thing to have a gay boyfriend, its entirely different to have a gay boyfriend who’s secretly in love with your brother.
I had a neighbor once who assumed everyone was gay. I almost had to physically assault him to get him to keep his hands off me. (I’m on the autism spectrum, and don’t take well to being touched without my permission.)
As I suggested somewhere below this, I think the “actually” is because he picked up on Ethan’s signals (or loudspeaker shouts, if you prefer) and has been waiting for the question.
It also depends on what you mean by the term. Everyplace is east of somewhere. (actually, technically, everyplace is east of everywhere, but that’s aside the point.)
What if Joshua secretly writes erotica novels? He is a “feelance writer”, he harbors shame or shyness about something, and he has intentionally kept that information away from his parents (and seemingly from his siblings). I place my money on “Joshua the Sexnerd”.
So this still begs the question, what IS/ARE Joshua’s dark secrets. Is he atheist or agnostic? What the heck could he be hiding that is so huge that he gave off the vibe that his parents would hate him if they knew more about him.
I bet if it isn’t to do with religion, it has to do with his politics. His parents are probably extremely conservative, and perhaps he is extremely liberal. That would make a lot of sense regarding his comments about his writing and being unable to be himself normally.
Something to consider: the emphasis is on the word “not”, not “actually”.
As in, “I’m not actually gay, I was just fucking with you because I might actually turn out to be a huge asshole”.
/sigh. I’m actually really worried I’ll start disliking Joshua. There are a few troubling signs (and no, not because he bombed the ship I liked by being not-gay).
I dunno, I can’t imagine someone being raised in that strict a Christian household [to the point that they won’t talk to Atheists] getting his kicks by leading on gay guys in front of his parents.
I mean maybe if he was the rebel in the family but he’s clearly not. He also seems pretty sincere in his interactions with Ethan really; if he was doing this to be a really be a jerk, he could have gone further. Or he would have wanted to humiliate him sooner since there’s always the possibility that he’d not see him again during the trip.
Generally, I suspect the only way that it could be a deliberate fake out would be if he was trying to bait Ethan to confess to protect Joyce, but I suspect this isn’t the case as it would invovle cunning and a lot of manipulation which would be a wierd and sudden twist of character.
Here is a timeline of my emotions last night through today:
– first comment, incredibly excited, and not even disappointed, strangely enough
– posting for a while, finally feeling the disappointment
– later on, things start to mellow out, my attention is brought to the oddity of the way he replied to Ethan
– I start thinking about it
– I stay on the comment section all night because it’s really easy to tab back and forth when I come up with new conclusions after thinking so hard about it
– I stay disappointed for a while until this post happens, after which, I have started to be suspicious of Joshua and resent the ship
– resentment of ship continues throughout the night
– everything I post up ’til the time I go to bed aren’t super serious (though I was really excited about the relief theory I posted further down the page)
– go to bed, resentin’ (and drawing new fanart with three all new ships)
– wake up, get back on computer
– reach this comment, still kind of “hmngh” about the whole thing, and now kinda just worried about Ethan
I guess it’s because normal people don’t get this obsessive about things? I really just like analyzing fiction, that’s all, and Willis comics are perfect for it.
Oh man, panel 2… He says it directly to camera and everything.
I can’t decide which is the best bit:
1) Willis drew this strip and committed it to the buffer long before seeing the fan reaction to Josh. Man knows his readers.
2) This conversation was scheduled to happen right on National Coming Out Day IRL.
3) Josh turns to camera and looks directly at the shippers just as he drops the bombshell. See point 1.
4) Josh not being gay is a bigger bombshell than him coming out.
Point to note, that Josh is completely unfazed by the fact of Ethan’s orientation and jumps straight to “OK, so what’s going on?”, clearly having more experience of life outside the bubble than his parents / Joyce. Makes me wonder what battle he’s choosing to avoid, if it’s not his own orientation (assuming Willis isn’t also making a point about “straight” and “gay” not being the only available options).
Joshua is secretly a writer of M/M stories for a Gay male magazine. It’s why he gay-darred Ethan because of the ‘research’ he had to do when he first started writing for it.
Anyway, now that Willis just sunk that ship without warning, I say we all move on to another ship that this series has recently made possible.
Give me Dorothy and Joyce fun Willis, even if you must add Walky as the chocolate cream filling.
It’s not too much to ask… you have teased your readers for ages with possibilities of lesbian relationships but every time it looks possible you cut off from them and never bring them up again as happened with the gender studies teacher and Roz’s sister or the school paper editor, or in Ruth and Billie’s case switched it off after just one kiss and turned them into AA co-coaches.
Let me hear it shippers… JOYCExDOTTY will prevail against the odds and Willis’ mighty ship torpedo attacks where other ships flounder!
1) Billie/Ruth is a given.
2) Robin/Leslie is pretty much a given, though I don’t think all that much screen time will be devoted to it.
3) Daisy is not a main character, and likely never will be.
4) You forgot about Mandy and Grace.
5) All the gay in this comic has been of the lesbian variety, though that’s to be expected, as most of the cast is female.
6) Look, we just want another gay/bi/etc. guy on the cast, all right? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK, WILLIS?
7) Lesbians are pretty neato though, I approve.
I don’t know that Robin/Les is a given, considering that they’re already a couple in the other continuity and Willis seems keen on exploring different areas. Also Les is in pretty much a solid mentor-type position, and you don’t usually have much cause to dig into that role’s personal life.
Regardless, they have chemistry. Also, I agree that Leslie and Robin won’t be developed as much. They exist as functions of the other chars – no more, no less.
Funnily enough, they’ve both been used to further Roz’s character development in large part.
I’ll agree that it’s not a given (though I’m hoping; nothing can be right in the ‘verse if Robin doesn’t have her lesbian), but Robin is coming from a sufficiently different place in this universe that just because it ends with Robin and Leslie getting down licky-style doesn’t mean it would be a rehash of Shortpacked.
From what unfortunately little we’ve seen of that plot thread, it looks like it’s not so much about Robin’s sexuality (Roz seems pretty sure that Leslie/Robin is something she can make happen, and while stupid overconfidence is in-character for Roz, she’s probably got reasons for believing it… this is her sister, after all), which is been there, done that, but an exploration of hypocrisy and honesty, of standing up for what you believe rather than for what you want to get.
More like I’m constantly going back and analyzing what’s happening in the strip, making observations as I go along.
The only conclusion I’ve really come to thus far is that Joshua reacted to that weirdly. I don’t know what it means, or if it even means anything, but there it is.
Top 10 Reasons Why Joyce/Dorothy Need to Be Shipped:
10) They actually wore matching sweater vests and under blouses for their first ‘date’.
09) They have been thrown at each other time and again across the various universes so obviously something is begging for new context.
08) Becoming a lesbian is so much better than dating a gay guy as a shim and will lead to a lot less heartache in the long run for everyone.
07) It will finally take the pressure off of poor Joshua and he can finally man up to whatever it is he feels his parents would hate about him.
06) Everyone who hates her says that Joyce needs to grow up, Dorothy made _Walky_ seem mature after getting it on with him.
05) Joyce can remain a technical virgin before marriage as her parents / the Bible demands it (sex with another girl doesn’t require penetration – that’s just more fun).
04) Considerring voter’s opinions of atheists in America, Joyce’s upbringing would actually benefit Dorothy’s electorial bids.
03) Sarah’s face when she finds out that Joyce is now into girls will be hilarious if her face when she overheard a convo from a few strips back is anything to go by.
02) Yotomoe will cry when Joyce/Dorothy ship sails instead of the Faz/Dina ship.
01) Willis’ book cover says it all… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWORFi4CEAAWo-0.jpg
If Joshua is an atheist, and his parents find that out, he may well wish he were gay. At least with homosexuality there is the possibility of still believing in a god, but an outright refusal/rejection of God/Jesus Christ guarantees 0 tolerance or acceptance from any fundamentalist Christian community. As an atheist myself, I hope the best for Joshua.
At least with homosexuality there is the possibility of still believing in a god,
When we are talking about fundamental Christians, that’s about par with “At least with murder there is the possibility of still believing in capital punishment”. The Old Testament (which is the main source for cherry-picking fundamental beliefs) is pretty clear in its directions of putting the offender out of his misery. I don’t quite remember whether it was just the top, though. But with regard to actual sodomy (namely involving livestock) I pretty clearly remember that both human and animal were supposed to be punished, so it’s likely the same with “lying with a man as though he were a woman”.
Note that fundamentals tend to skip over the laws that would require them to stone gynecologists, or to lock their wives in a bathhouse at the time of their uncleanliness or whatever else.
I think what NJ was going for (please, correct me if I’m wrong) was that Joyce’s parents, although they would certainly be something like horrified if it turned out that Joshua was gay, would probably still be what they think of as supportive (even if that means doing some “pray the gay away” type-crap), because they might recognize it either as simply a sin (according to the school of thought where homosexuality is viewed as a choice), or, and this is rather unlikely, they recognize it as not being a choice. Either way, I could see the Browns as still being “we’re disappointed in you, but we love you, and we’ll help you get through this.” Not a great attitude, but still.
Contrast this with being atheist, which there is no way they will see it as anything OTHER than a choice, as Joshua willingly rejecting everything they raised him by, and, as one of them put it, meaning he “has no moral foundation.” Contrasted with the loving, but intolerant attitude that seems likely if Joshua were to come out as gay, they would probably go nuclear if Joshua informed them that he was an atheist, given their reaction (especially Carol’s) to Joyce even associating with an atheist.
A hilarious(/unfortunate?) contextual red herring.
Yes… especially given what’s just been revealed about his relationship with his parents, his previously-given reasons for being a writer are still wholly applicable…
See, I was thinking, him being gay? Too easy/obvious. Joshua’s deal is that he’s actually, like, a slightly different brand of Christian than the rest of the family. Or maybe he just went all-out and became a Satanist. Whatever.
I’ve known a couple of fundies. Being Roman Catholic is the next best thing to being Satanist, as far as they’re concerned.
(They’re also not really good at the whole Bible-reading thing. They get especially annoyed when I cut off their public recitation of elaborate prayers by saying, “Matthew 6:5.”)
Pretty interesting. I know this is a possible plot line but it seems that a lot of people felt heartbroken when Joshua is not gay. Sinking ship by the iceberg named Willis.
But I want to see what with Joshua’s deal. Is he an atheist? Or is he joining other branch of Christianity? Or is he fell in love with a woman with different believe? Or he convert to different religion to become Buddhist or Moslem? Don’t tell me he’s in relationship with Asma!
In spite of what the government wants to make you believe, there are actually more justifications for privacy than being a terrorist. Perhaps he’s just not into the “ordinary children have nothing to fear” rap.
I’d bet he’s an atheist. It’d explain why he really strongly wanted to bolt when his parents were getting on Joyce about consorting with a nonbeliever.
Atheist is a possibility. But it’s a bit too obvious. I mean “Strict Christian parents made their children turn Atheist” is a pretty typical plot in many stories. We need something new and fresh.
“Atheist” does not even make sense since atheism is a conviction-based sibling to agnosticism. If you can’t make yourself believe in a god, that does not mean you are atheist. You are just a struggling theist. If you stop struggling, you are agnostic. If you tell others they are fools for struggling, you are an atheist. But Jordan is not telling others. That’s why everybody is still trying to puzzle him out.
I’ve got issues with your definitions of “atheist” and “agnostic”, but even accepting the dubious proposition that atheism requires evangelism… he’s not telling his family. That doesn’t mean he’s not telling anyone.
I think with Drew it’s pretty clear. He want to see Ethan cut back on his hobbies because he felt overwhelmed with them. For Drew what he want for their future is different from what Ethan want for his future.
Glad to see there’s a few others viewing the burning wreckage of the Fail Ship Ethan/Joshua from a distance laughing maniacally as the shippers drown in tears.
I don’t see this much shippers crying except the ending of the Digimon anime.
Tbh that ending was so sudden it’s like a saboteur snuck in to the ship and C4 the engine and the hulls and detonate it when it’s almost reaching its destination.
okokok I’m sorry I’ve made up like, a seventh of this entire comment section so far, but hear me out here:
I’ve been mulling this revelation over in my mind for quite a bit now, and after saying it out loud several times in a variety of different ways, plus matching it with his body language, I’ve come to the conclusion that the feeling Joshua is currently expressing re: his sexuality is relief.
When Ethan asks him if he’s gay, he does not react with disgust or irritation, as would be expected if he gets mistaken for gay often. He also does react with indifference, apathy, or confusion as would be expected if he was simply informing Ethan of his proclivities. No, he does that little laugh and self-satisfied smile to himself. He’s not even looking at Ethan while he says it. And with the emphasis on “not”, relief (or awe) is the only tone of voice that matches up with his expression.
Maybe he was confused, maybe he’s an ex-gay, maybe he had an exception. It could be any, all, or none of these. However, this interpretation is the only one that really makes sense to me.
Analyzing a character’s behavior and body language makes me a “captain”? I liked the pairing, but honestly, I almost want Ethan to stay away from him now, for his own sake.
Being last on board.
Suffering more deeply than any other crewman.
And most importantly drawing an awesome fanart-flag for the Joshutan.
This is what made you captain.
Actually, I think that “not actually gay” is mostly to do with the fact that he knows that Ethan thinks he’s gay, and has been blatantly sending signals to him, and has consequently been waiting for Ethan to ask.
I was originally inclined to agree, but there are two things that still seem off in that scenario:
1) It makes Joshua look like kind of a dick. I mean, c’mon, he looks amused by the (alleged) mistake. Also, if he realized it early on, he shouldn’t have encouraged Ethan’s advances. All he had to do was cut it off after the introduction. One could argue he did just that (albeit a little late), but he clearly decided to bail for a different reason.
2) It’s still pretty weird how he’s not making eye contact with Ethan. There are two ways to explain this: either he’s talking to the readers, or something’s being concealed. I concede the former is more likely, but I think it’d be pretty interesting if it was indeed the latter.
1) I disagree. If you reread the previous scene, he’s initially just answering Ethan’s questions and conversing normally. You can pretty much see the point at which he realized what was happening, at which point he immediately stopped chatting and left. And throughout the whole thing, the instant he was -sure- Ethan was gay, he immediately went the “what are you doing to my little sister??” direction.
2) I seriously doubt anybody is “talking to the readers”. Ethan’s avoiding eye contact either because he’s checking to see if anybody’s looking their way, or just because he’s putting himself out there and is intimidated by the prospect. Joshua’s glance away indicates that he’s thinking about something else when he says it. It could be he’s lying, because “WTF I’m not going to sit here while my sister’s boyfriend hits on me, what’s wrong with you???”, or it could be because he’s thinking about what he’s -actually- hiding from his parents. (Hell, it might even be an “If only…” kind of expression. If he’s an atheist, as I suspect, he might well be thinking about how much easier it’d be to come out to his parents if he was gay instead.)
2) I came up with the PSA conclusion because this has happened before. A lot of fans were asking for confirmation on Ethan’s sexuality, so much that he has made a separate post about it. This post with the characters staring at the audience, maybe, is his way of saying Joshua’s not gay.
1) How exactly did you come to that conclusion? His mind is clearly elsewhere when he’s talking to Ethan there. I’m not sure how you can dispute this, especially since he himself doubts his ability to show restraint about this kind of thing in the last strip: “Might say some stuff I can’t ever take back.”
2) a. Haven’t you ever heard of Aside Glances? Mindfully employing tropes is certainly not beyond Willis.
b. Ethan’s obviously doing that sort of awkward, casual, aloof thing when you’re trying to act like you aren’t particularly interested in the answer, but you secretly are. You do have a point about Joshua; he could be thinking of his actual secret there. However, it still does not fit the way he responded to Ethan’s question. Try saying it out loud a few times: there are only a couple ways it really sounds natural with the word “not” stressed here.
If things had played out differently, we would probably be of the same opinion. However, given the sequence of events being what they are, his reaction to Ethan’s advances just does not seem realistic.
1) I don’t see what that has to do with the claim that Ethan led Joshua on, which is what I was talking about there. In the first scene, I think he was just being friendly, until panal 5 of this comic:
The line you’re quoting is about not wanting to get involved in the argument between his parents and his sister, because -whatever- his secret is, he’s afraid he’ll give it out if he confronts them. (which is part of what makes me think it relates to belief, rather than sexuality)
2) I have heard of aside glances. But the whole joke on an aside glance is that it’s an obvious breach of the 4th wall, and that isn’t so obvious here. Also, there are perfectly reasonable in-universe reasons for them to be avoiding eye contact, namely that Ethan is risking outing himself, and Joshua is aware of Ethan’s interest and the problems that it represents. If they were -both- eyeing the content section, or if they both paused to look at the camera, I might be more inclined to believe that’s what’s going on, but Ethan’s looking off to the left(presumably the direction of Joyce and the ‘rents…) and Joshua is looking down and away from Ethan. (avoiding eye contact in an awkward situation)
As far as the line, I think it works perfectly well if he knows that Ethan -thinks- he’s gay, and I honestly don’t see -any- reactions to Ethan’s advances. He answered some questions about what he does and why, realized something was amiss, left, came back later, was cagey and evasive until Ethan -asked- if he was gay, and in so asking outed himself. At which point Joshua confronted him. That makes complete sense to me in the context we’ve been given.
1) I was responding to the claim that Joshua left, “the point at which he realized what was happening”. When he leaves, he is clearly not thinking about Ethan. He is “cagey and guarded” because he’s trying to avoid his parents.
2) Here’s the thing: it’s weird that Joshua’s apparently “cagey and guarded” in his first interactions, then spontaneously pleasant/satisfied. If I were in his situation, after realizing Ethan is gay (and dating my sister), I’d respond in decidedly more unpleasant way (with irritation, most likely). It makes more sense that after Ethan makes his inquiry, he connects the dots somewhere between panel 2 and panel 4, which leads to his negative mood.
What I hate the most is that Panels 1 and 2 feel like they are actually facing the audience while delivering their lines like some PSA to rub it in our face.
At the end of today, Joshua is headed back to his adult life and Ethan is still a confused 18 year old. It may take decades for us to even see Joshua again. It’s not like older brothers drop in on their younger siblings all the time and parent’s day has lasted for months. He is a plot device fully installed and waiting to be used later. And ‘not actually gay’ is sufficiently ambiguous to mean all kinds of things, ex-gay included.
But Joshua is being the adult in the area and making it clear that dating his sister while gay is not OK and can only end badly.
Still waiting for Naomi to notice this little private conversation.
I am starting to realize this 🙂 I’m fairly new to DoA and the rest of the Willisverse. I must say though seeing Joyce dealing with THAT revelation about herself would be entertaining.
“I’m bisexual!”
We all know how to hide secrets by being TECHNICAL, JOSHUA, you’re not the FIRST to pull this trick on everyone.
Nobody ever asks if you’re bi.
Come to think of it, the way he phrased it (and presumably “toned” it), could indicate that people tend to think he’s gay because he’s bi (checks out dudes, may be dating one, etc.).
Joshua seems like a decent guy who can totally read the situation with Ethan. I think he wants to shut that crush down in a kind, but firm way. So if he is dating a guy, he would probably just clear that up.
The way he predicted all this would happen months before has led me to believe that Willis is actually a prophet. Who of course uses his powers to troll people with comics.
Not a prophet — a fabulous storyteller. We are just picking up on the clues he leaves us in the strip. Some turn out to be foreshadowing, and some — DAMN YOU, WILLIS! — turn out to be nothing but teasers. Either way, he is a puppetmaster, pulling our little strings with his mighty pen (or computer graphics program, or whatever).
Or he’s some other heathen religion. Or he does porn. Premarital hanky panky. Polyamory. Democrat and/or liberal. Communist. Libertarian. Serial killer. Furry. Otherkin. Trans. Alcoholic. Stoner. Sex addict*. Interracial dating. Man-child. Drag queen and/or transvestite. Genderqueer.
There are a bunch of things out there that bigots like the Browns would disapprove of.
*i am slightly on-board with shipping jacob and joshua
Probably, but being atheist is a tad bit too typical in many stories and webcomics. I wish Willis to surprise us with something more creative. Interesting list vsophi made there.
perhaps it’s because I’m Canadian, that phrase doesn’t register much “OMG!” value with me. Despite my parents being fairly religious, their politics were left wing.
Also, we now have proof that Joshua’s gaydar is likely the most effective in the family, since Joyce didn’t know Ethan was until he told her, and her parents don’t seem to have picked up on it.
Also, after somebody pointed out that Joshua being gay was way too obvious in the comments for the previous strip, I would have been more surprised if he’d turned out to be gay.
Well, regarding possible plot twists, you are all aware that
a) David Willis reads the comments
b) Jeph Jacques links to “Dumbing of Age” under a different name.
He can just play this like reverse cheated Battleships, placing his bombs wherever there is place between the multitude of ships.
Come on people, seriously? Willis even posts sneak peeks of newer strips on tumblr, what else should he do to convince you that comments are irrelevant to current storylines?
David Willis set you all up. He gave you the materials you needed to build your ships just so he can sink it. You’ve been had, shippers. Gloriously, gloriously had.
I still think Joshua may be gay or bi- he and Ethan really did seem to have chemistry when they met- but that he’s steering way clear out of concern for Joyce.
But we will see!
Not saying that I approve of it (the Star Wars porn, that is), but there was a fair amount of time that passed between Luke first seeing her hologram in Episode IV and when he first learns of his sister in Episode V — so there was ample opportunity for such hanky-panky while the two were still blithely ignorant of their relationship.
I really feel for Ethan in this one; his experience is much like my own (except he’s having a slightly easier ride). College is a confusing time, especially if you’ve been brought up in a ‘gay = evil’ culture. Consequently, my response to Joshua’s question would have been (and often was) deny, deny, deny. I’m much happier in my own skin now.
My way of denying my homosexuality was thinking that I was bisexual, but once I stopped lying to myself, I did feel much better in general. But coming out to other people IRL is still nearly impossible, except my mom (with which I’m very close),
I AM DYING INSIDE
I warrrrrned you!!!
I warned you about the stairs bro!
IT KEEPS HAPPENING!
No really my gravatar changed again! And it’s Sal again! But it’s a different Sal! AHHHHHHHHHH!
Them avatar shuffles man
AGAIN with the shipping what IS it even with you and SHIPPING MAN
Apparently he makes good boats.
I love how he’s looking straight through the 4th wall when he announces it in panel two.
It’s like the artist knows he’s trolling or something :-p
HERE IS THE FRUIT OF MY SHATTERED DREAMS
/SOBS LOUDLY
I approve of your pic-fiction! 😀
Awesomely done!
Wow! You have my approval as well
thanks ya’ll ; ~ ;
(by the by, here’s the shirt joyce is wearing: http://www.zazzle.com/team_jesus_red_unisex_shirt_more_styles-235901143880908564)
That is amazing!
Oh, the tears of unfathomable shipper sadness! Mmm… yummy!
</cartman>
an act of sobomy.
You’re version is clearly superior.
I second this motion. Clearly Joyce/Dorothy is the appropriate ship.
Doyce or Jorothy?
Agreed.
I want you to know that someone loves your picture and will save it to his computer and treasure it forever.
I’m honored. ; w ;
(this almost makes up for the worst shipwreck to date in the dumbiverse)
This is my favorite shipwreck ever. 🙂
At least two people! T.T
(heh my new Ethan avvy likes it too)
What should have been TwT
Awww, confused proto-les kisses!
That is the cutest thing, vsophi! I feel your feels.
Wonderful job with what should have been. Damn you, Willis!!! 🙂
This is glorious :O
Cool pic-fiction
Same.
~\o
I’m in the dance band on the Titanic
Sing “Nearer, my God, to Thee”
The iceberg’s on the starboard bow
Won’t you dance with me
o/~
Love that song. And yupyup.
Harry Chapin was a badass.
I love how he’s looking straight through the 4th wall when he announces it in panel two.
It’s like the artist knows he’s trolling or something :-p
Oops, sorry about the 2x post :-\
CALLED IT!!!!!
*DANCES THE YOTOMOE VICTORY DANCE*
Well shit, looks like I owe you money.
Betting is a fools game… unless you’re already know the outcome that is.
No “unless” needed. It’s still a fool’s game, but in that scenario you are not the one who’s a fool
Then Willis should have put money on this.
That’s insider trading!
He just needs to get elected to Congress, then it isn’t a problem!
You are a modern prophet.
Nah, Yotomoe is a fortune cookie: he gives advice that no one listens to.
In that case, what are my lucky numbers?
4, 97, Q
Thank you, oh wise one. You truly are the most intelligent and handsome of all.
Hike hike hike!
I see what you did there, Pyr05.
Q is the luckiest number for everyone, except Hongou and Kubota.
I love you for that reference.
I love you for getting it.
Now Kiss!
Also Captain Picard.
qqq spoilers
Yotomoe, AKA Cassandra.
You have a victory dance?
Doesn’t everybody?
What is your victory song? You must have a song that you play while dancing the dance of victory! It’s a rule.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m4oeEUwADw
Sexiest victory song ever!
Yeah, I said it.
Yah, but I reserve mine for when I kill something or sometimes when someone joins my party.
Yes. Mine is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3G5IXn0K7A
I now hate you. That will be in my head all week.
Ouch.
You do realize what song this is based on, right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKYEKhxWy6o
WTF? Hampsterdance is based on a song from Disney’s Robin Hood? That is so bizarre!
Well, my victory dance is that I.R Baboon’s victory dance then followed up with a Cossack dance.
same here, INTERNET HIGH FIVE
Well, guessing that Joshua was just stuck on a default happy-friendly-slightly awkward setting like Joyce was right. Even so, I liked that ship. It was an adorable ship. And now Godzillis has punted it clear across the Pacific rim.
Also, is this the first strip where the title isn’t a word in the strip?
naw, there’s been others
REJECTED
BRO-ZONED
BRO-IN-LAW-ZONED!
I got here late and OMG HE’S NOT GAY!!!!!
and omg he’s gonna KILL Ethan…
Also? Ethan? He’s serious about that bro-in-law thing… You probably don’t wanna say a comment that’s pretty much hitting-on-him territory at a time like this
It IS Ethan, after all. Even if Joshua did play for the same team, it wouldn’t make him any less out of Ethan’s benchwarming league…
AAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD ITS GONE!!!!
Nothing like clearing the air.
More like clearing the comments section…
Or the bowels.
they’re pretty much the same aren’t they?
I figured this is now called for.
DAMN YOU WILLIS!
I second this motion, as you’ve doomed us all.
I thought that was so. Dances with Yotomoe.
Please excuse me, I got carried away. 🙂
It’s taking all I have in me to not fill every comment with me bragging.
I am fully in support of this.
Although now I just wonder what Joshua is actually concerned about. Go Yotomoe, whatever random thing you guess will probably be right. =P
He’s a closeted secular humanist, maybe?
He *thought* ha was gay, so he dated a boy, but he turned out to not be gay.
(for both values of “he”)
This seems like a very real possibility to me.
I knew it.
I AM EXTREMELY DISAPPOINT!
“… Oh.”
That, my friends, was the sound of my heart BREAKING IN TWO
I can hear the sound of a ship been torn open by by an iceburg.
And that Iceberg is Willis. >.>
Willis is the Titanic and the Iceberg.
He might as well be the freezing ocean that kills one of the lovers at the end.
Plot twist: Ethan snapped, killed Joshua and freeze him in the fridge.
Oh damn, we got PLAYED.
DAMN YOU WILLIS.
Thank you, Joshua. The sooner Ethan realizes that this sham of a relationship is NOT EVER going to work out, the better.
True Shit.
It’s not Joshua’s call. It’s Ethan and Joyce’s.
Yeah, but sometimes people need feedback to realize how dumb they’re being.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear that Ethan is one stern look away from dropping the charade.
…or at least I hope so. 🙁
Obviously not, since Ethan already got a seriously stern look, and talking to, from Amber. I’m starting to feel like this isn’t going to go away until he’s macking with another guy and Joyce is crying.
And godsdamn, I’m really starting to hate him for it.
Actually, I think Joyce will be the one to break it off. She’s been showing loads of potential for growth in just the first month of college. I mean, hell, standing up for her atheist friend in front of her fundie, bigoted parents? Wow. Ethan, on the other hand, is still as fucked up as ever. He’ll get dumped and realize with the way things are now, all he can ever be is alone.
Joshua could have been out. He might’ve been the one thing that could snap Ethan out of it. But with this blatant rejection, all Ethan’s gonna feel is hopeless.
…And so ends my incredibly depressing take on Ethan’s life. Come to think of it, I think this is why I sympathize with Ethan more than anyone else on the cast. As least the others have people. Even Sal has Marcie, and to some extent, Jason. Mike is an awful friend, and Amber certainly can’t be there for him with everything that’s going on with her now.
…Come to think of it, Amber’s pretty alone in this too. Damn, why do all the SP! people have to be so goddamned miserable?
an* out, soz
And those dreams (ok it was a nightmare) and associated feels are only gonna build, not go away.
I s2g vsophi why are you trying to make everyone even more miserable.
because clearly overanalyzing recklessly feels-inducing webcomics is my special interest
My new prediction for a future storyline…some of them get into group therapy together. Results are…um…mixed.
Also, when the entire thing first started, Mike gave as clear an indication of his disapproval as he ever does. When you’ve shocked Mike, you should probably reevaluate your life.
Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to show how dysfunctional things have gotten. I really hope Ethan and Joyce break up, this relationship is doing neither of them any good, at all.
Joshua is in, shit just got real.
Wh-no?
WHATTYA MEAN NO?! It-I-abhjg-
…It seemed so…
…I feel like nothing I say will keep me from developping foot in mouth disease, but man…
Foots disease, the cousin of Butts disease.
Also closely related to ‘Red Foreman Disease’, also known as a foot up your ass.
Maybe those friends of his are a gay couple though. Would explain a thing or two I guess.
Drew and Manny gay couple as Joshua’s guy friends. Oh the twist.
*Plays taps*
In honor of the lives lost in the sinking of the USS Joshuthan. Never forget.
May I speak?
This ship fueled many comments and fanfics, and lived in the hearts of many. BUT I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU ALL!
R.I.P.
We shall bury them next to the FazxDina ship victims…
They never made it out of the harbor.
Some say you can still see the FazxDina sailing along the horizon at twilight, stern emblazoned with charts and grappling hooks for rigging.
But most people accept that it burnt to the ground while still in the drydock.
It did not burn. It was destroyed by a host of triceratops.
Plesiosaurs patrol the remains underwater lest zombie pirates resurrect it and sail it on the seas against the wishes of all.
FazxDina was destroyed in drydock but not burned to the ground. We have the tools, we have the technology. We can make it stronger, faster, better…. FAZXDINA WILL BE THE MODERN MEGALODON!
Ah, who’m I kidding?
Even when we rebuild it it will have self destruct button installed.
Yotomoe, what’s this “we” all about? If Willis sank the Joshuthan, you were the dick on the UBoat who kept machine gunning the survivors and laughing maniacally.
I’m more like the guy who kept warning people not to get so cocky when they built the Titanic. And they just refused to listen to me.
THEY! DIDN’T! LISTEN!
But no one wanted to believe…believe Joshua could ever be straight. And when the truth finally dawns, it dawns in fire!
Everyone knows that ship never existed, no matter how hard delusional people insist on it.
Pfffft. Non-canonical ships are the best ships. This ship lives. In the heards and minds of the people, it will always live.
Airships.
The pairing goes on, the slash endures, the hoe-yay still lives, and the ship will never die.
So if Joshua isn’t gay does this mean…. he’s Amazi-Girl!?
No…
Clearly Amber’s Amazi-Girl.
I know, I know, it sounds impossible, but I believe in my heart that it’s true.
By that logic… Danny’s gay?
everyone is gay
Except Joshua.
Someone’s gotta be bi.
Except Joshua.
Ha, beat ya to it.
Well played.
Everyone can be gay! And when everyone’s gay muahahahaha… No one will be.
Love the syndrome reference
No, that means he’s Amber, stupid. Haven’t you read anything? 🙂
And the big brother comes out swinging! Though I’m not sure how much protection Joyce actually needs. Maybe some more exposure to the world at large.
I should have done more of this for my little sister.
Were there a lot of gay dudes dating your sister?
That was my question.
No, but for some reason she seemed to be a magnet for losers. Even ended up marrying one of ’em. Didn’t last, fortunately; otherwise it wouldn’t have been “Goodbye, Earl” for real.
I’m pretty sure what the big brother just did was not to “come out” swinging, given the context. We must avoid euphamistic confusion.
He arrived swinging.
Now we just need for him to tell his parents about his harem of sexbots that are the only thing he’s attracted to.
So wait – Joshua is Malaya?
Uncertain Joyce is the best gravatar for that comment. ^.^
“Big brother comes out swinging.” I see what I wanted you to do there, lol!
Haha, Ethan. Now the guy you like knows you’re a dick. And you don’t even get to make out with him.l
I swear to you, at this very moment I was just drawing fan art of them about to make out. Now I must destroy it.
at least you didn’t already draw and it and were waiting for the perfect moment to unleash it upon the world EXCEPT THAT MOMENT NEVER CAME AND NOW I THINK I HAVE RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME I CAN’T STOP SHAKING FROM THE RESIDUAL EXCITEMENT AND SUBSEQUENT DISAPPOINTMENT
I WARNED YOUUUUU
DAMMIT YOTOMOE
For the record I love how your gravatar works so well for the entirety of this page
can you tell I have a bad case of the nerves
I know that feel, fellow marooned ship-sailor.
Are you ok? I feel like you need a hug. Or to punch something. Go punch something. It helps!
I feel you though. I feel you. *hugs*
Could be worse. Could be transient pedal parasthesia.
Hey man, it could happen. Probably won’t, in all likelihood it won’t… but it *could*!
Don’t be like that. The ship will live on in our hearts!
No no, continue. I mean, since when has ship-feasibility ever stopped us from drawing fanarts before?
I’m pretty sure I drew Faz X Dina… like 2 or 3 times.
And some of us is still looking for a proper brain bleach for that.
I just used brain wash. It cleans out the bad memories good and doesn’t stain clothes
It’s very rare that one member of the pairing explicitly states to the other that he’s not gay. Our ship’s taken a canonball.
Bah! Less sturdy ships have sailed the seas before!
If Willis wants to pull the double-reverse, Joshua is an ex-gay. Or bisexual. Truthful answer from his perspective either way.
(I am not, repeat not, saying that will happen)
I wholeheartedly endorse the bisexual bit. We need more male bis to come out.
I need the company.
He could be in the closet REAL hard
Don’t do it…please continue to draw in defiance of the current situation!
That ship sunk pretty f%%&&*g quickly! Rage torpedo’s away!
And the answer: HE’S NOT GAY!
Audience: Nooooooooooooooo!
Except Yotomoe who is dancing around like an ass.
Twerk that ass! (_._)
Very disturbed by this comment and grav. Way to go Plasma
You’re welcome! ^_^
Unlike Pyr, I find your Grav perfectly suited to the comment. The image of Yotomoe twerking, well, can’t be much worse than Miley’s VMA gig.
*frank n furter voice* not gay? I think we can do better than that
Kudos for that shout out.
Correction: He’s not “actually” gay. That word use is bugging me. Either it’s just overly casual usage, or it means “in spite of the evidence”.
I figured it meant he’s been asked more than once before, and has had people surprised that he’s straight. I’d’ve probably asked too if I was a gay-or-bi dude at his college.
Interesting use of the word ‘actually’.
So does Joshua mean he knows he seems that way?
Or that he is bi? Has experimented? Seems kind of effeminate?
And so then what is it> ‘her parents’. Or is he transsexual?
Gottawonder.
Is he athiest? A man who has sinned by knowing another woman outside of marriage? Did he use God’s-name-in-vain-that-one-time? IS HE COMPLETELY NORMAL!
Who friggin knows anymore.
Maybe he’s just a teenager so he’s like “THEY JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND ME” while he shops at Hot Topic.
Seeing things so far, this’ll probably be what happens.
Maybe he doesn’t want to tell them that he’s from a mirror universe and that he killed the real Josh and took his place.
Or he’s an alien who killed Josh and is currently inhabiting his dead body.
He held a girl’s hand in 1st grade. He knows this cannot be forgiven.
I wonder if he wants some sugar-water.
And then Rip Torn could hire us to hunt him down!
Transsexual would be a new one.
Or hell, maybe he just doesn’t see eye to eye with his parents. God knows I wouldn’t.
I’m going for this one… transgender or some other queer identity
Does everybody (except for maybe Joyce) in this strip have to be something other that plain vanilla? Even the LGBTQs themselves cite figures that say maybe 10% of the general population is something other than straight. Push the envelope a little bit, sure, but let’s not skew the stats way out of all proportion!!
Diversity is interesting. It’d be cool to see how Willis writes a trans character, or a bi male character (who isn’t an asshole).
Yeah, but this is a fictional universe. It could be that everyone is assumed to be trans until proven otherwise.
Whuh? The density isn’t *that* high. Danny, Dorothy, Walky, Joe, Roz, Sal, Penny, Jason, (presumably) Dina, (presumably) Sarah, are all straight. Billie’s bi, Ethan’s gay, Ruth’s most likely lesbian, Amber has a thing for super suits and Mike lusts for human suffering and/or your mom. So there’s a lot of unusual stuff but Joyce isn’t the only straight person!
Ruth’s pretty much not a lesbian.
She’s attracted to some women.
Yes, but Willis himself said she was not.
She still does fall under the LGBTQ spectrum though. /nitpicking for a second there
Ruth did tell Howard that she was into girls, so at least bi if not a lesbian waiting for full realization.
How would it be unrealistic? It’s a small group of people–the cast isn’t going to represent global trends right down to the percent, y’know?
Even if there were fifteen trans* characters in this comic, it still wouldn’t be weird because that’s only /fifteen/ people out of /seven billion/ worldwide and, like, 6.5 million in Indiana. Not exactly a huge sample, dig?
Oh! He’s an 11-percenter! He sold his soul!
I’ll also put $2 on “furry”. Another $2 on “otter” as his fursona
I’m guessing ‘cuz otters are adorable? And otters with glasses are even more adorable?
…’k, adorabling myself into the ground here
An otter with glasses would indeed measure about 600 milliDinas on the adorability scale.
harry otter?
That’s what the “actually” was making me think too, it’s such an odd way to put it that I could see it being that either Joshua likes guys but is actually a straight woman born in the wrong body, or Joshua is a transvestite (and presumably Joyce has caught him in drag once or twice, and he assumes she told Ethan for him to be asking this) and the “actually” means “liking to dress in drag does not always equal gay, watch Eddie Izzard Dressed to Kill sometime Ethan, he does a whole bit about that”.
Just a heads up, but generally the terminology of ‘born in the wrong body’ is not preferred and pretty much never use the word tr*ns*xual unless someone specifically identifies that way.
I don’t think even God would.
“Not ACTUALLY gay”. He knows people would assume it – probably used to it. And he was looking away. He’s got something he’s not sharing.
This was my first thought, but I’m actually worried that he’s hiding something on the other edge of what his parents would disapprove of. Some sort of…super-fundamentalist, I dunno.
Look at him. He’s a Mormon.
Well… we all assumed it, didn’t we?
(Except Yotomoe, that it.)
…
*is.
Make him Bi 🙁
let it go pier
let it go
/sob. At least make Drew happen.
why would you want drew to happen again
ethan’s already broken enough
This word does seem important, doesn’t it?! “Actually.” “Not *actually.*”
Actually, to me it looks like Joshua is looking at the fourth wall… right at us. It’s Willis’s way of mocking us.
He’s converted to Islam / Baha’i / Wicca?
(…that is, one of those three, not some kind of syncre… hmm… *I put on my robe and prophet hat*)
I do believe that both Willis and Yotomoe deserve the highest of fives right now.
all willis deserves is a DAMN YOU WILLIS
I’m pretty sure he always deserves that though.
He has “DAMN YOU WILLIS” painted in the ceiling above his bed so he sees it at least twice a day, in case no one remembers to say it.
This was inevitable, wasn’t it? I am sad.
~ I will go down with this ship
I won’t put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I’m in love and always will beeeee~
Ethan looks like a very disheartened mime in that last panel.
Someday we’ll be expecting the twist that will never come. And Willis will sit back on his Taco Bell throne and laugh maniacally.
Called it. Caaaaaaaaalled it.
Also, quick question. How can everyone tell Ethan is gay like… right away…? Is he really effeminate or something? Because this is apparently really obvious to everyone around him.
Ethan emits enough gaydiation to set off some people’s gaydar.
Joyce’s Gaydar is broken.
No, no, Joyce’s gaydar can’t be broken if it was never developed. I say this from experience because, up until 3/4s through high school, neither was mine (and it still isn’t great…)
My gaydar only seems to detect lesbians.
Could I borrow it, then?
Why though!?! I mean his shirt and his weird blush make him look like a mime, but that isn’t gay. It’s just French-
Oh yeah, okay. That makes sense.
As someone of Norman decent, I am obligated to protest this French = effeminate idea.
I know, I know. But as an uneducated American, I was obligated to make it.
I feel like if you see a dude in America and they’re wearing clothing that can be described as “flattering”, there’s a stronger chance they’re either gay or European (or Dorothy’s boyfriend).
But seriously, I work for a British company, and some of our managers…if I just saw them on the street and didn’t hear their accents they’d throw my gaydar *way* off.
He’s defs not effeminate (least not as far as I can tell), but he was flirting pretty hard with Josh back when they first me.
met*
Willis doesn’t write the dialogue that way but if you meet him in person Ethsn has a super-thick lisp.
I DIED
His name is actually Esan.
Can people like, stop? I know you’re just trying to be funny but it’s kinda fucked up. This goes for all the ‘effeminate’ jokes people were making too… It’s kinda gross and it makes me uncomfortable.
Some people just have really good gaydar? It’s a bit of an offensive and generalizing concept, really, on the whole, but hasn’t that ever happened to you that you thought someone was gay and you turned out to be right? It happens. All the time.
Confirmation bias is a thing, though.
Absolutely! I’m just saying, it happens. It happens to me a lot. I’m quite good at this with girls, especially. Idk. Sure, you make assumptions, but that’s not even what I mean. It’s just a feeling, to me anyways. Nothing specific.
Man, I live a stone’s throw away from Portland Oregon. Statistically, I’m pretty sure everyone is either gay, vegan, or high.
I’m okay with this, as it means that there’s gay people, and that they skew supply and demand in favor of cheaper cheeseburgers for when I get the munchies.
I’m much better at that with guys than girls. I had a bit of a crush on a girl at my youth group who turned out to be a lesbian. …*pretty* sure she’s not a Catholic anymore.
If it detects gaydiation… wouldn’t it be more of a gayger counter than a gaydar?
+1
+1
haha +1 for you
The +1’s just won’t stop!
I believe it mostly has to do with the fact that the instant he meets a cute guy, he straigtens up, locks into “engage flirting” mode, and immediately starts broadcasting “I FIND YOU PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE” signals.
Body language is a thing.
What, no it’s not, you’re a liar.
Maybe. But how will you tell if my words don’t give it away?
MWAHAHAAHAHHAHAA!
SP! Ethan was never very subtle about checking guys out or flirting with them. I think he’s a pretty easy person to read when it comes to telling who he is attracted to no matter what his gender performance might be.
What? When was Ethan like this at all in SP!…? He didn’t do it for Thad, Drew, or Manny… Like, I mean, I guess he sorta did it with Mike, but only Mike. Ethan has never been particularly interested in romance/sex.
His haircut.
Oh no….THE TWIST!
Eh…I was fine either way. Now I have to wonder what other issue(s) might Joshua might have that would make his parents go apecrazy?
What a twist! /shymalan
He’s an atheist.
Or maybe he’s a god!
If he’s not gay, is he secretly an atheist or an otaku instead?
I’m gonna guess the former.
He’s a brony.
An atheist brony who doesn’t believe that friendship is magic because none of that supernatural nonsense exists. 😛
He watches MLP but he’s super annoying cuz everytime something magical happens he’s like “YEAH RIGHT! Like hell that happens.”
He’s currently working on a fan remake that will be more realistic, as well as darker and edgier. That’s why he came along to visit Joyce. It will give him a chance to meet his online writing partner in person, who also goes to this school; Buckets O’ Blood Guy!
Or it could be Mike. Pinkie Pie’s his favorite.
In Josh’s fanfic, Pinkie lives with him in his mom’s basement and helps him with his problems like telling him it’s okay if he doesn’t want to get a regular job right now.
joshua’s an mra
Nah, his parents would probably approve of that.
None of the paranormal stuff I have experienced has lead to believe in a god or gods. And I know christians who don’t beleive in the supernatural. It may seem paradoxical but religion and the supernatural really don’t have much to do with each other.
Or that he’s a cyborg ninja.
So your saying he’s secretly…Grey Fox!?
Well either he’s Grey Fox or Olga Gurlukovich…or Raiden.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
AGAIN with the tables?
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
THROW THE CHEESE!
No! cheese is for eating!
(╯°Д°）╯︵/(.□ . \)
Bi is still a possibility.
Probably not, but possible.
Also, pansexual.
Still, I doubted that Joshua and Ethan would get it on because we’ve already got a ton of regulars, and having him move to the area felt unlikely.
And also Ethan’s kind of dick moving it here.
NO JOKE. “Man, I sure would like to be straight so I can flee my own emotional needs and the inconvenience of my situation. I know, I’ll become the boyfriend of a naive homeschooled fundie christian girl and pretend she can convert me! Then the -instant- her cute brother shows up, I’ll make a pass at him. Oooh! Then later that evening, when she’s risking her entire familial relationship, when she could use the moral support of at -least- a friend, if not her ‘boyfriend’, I’ll slip away so I can hit on her brother some more!”
I doubt he’d say it like that if he was bi. It’d prolly go a little something like this if that was the case:
Ethan: Is it… Is it because you’re gay?
Joshua: Not exactly… [blushy face] I’m… well, the possibilities are endless, you know?
Ethan: Wait, so you’re…
Joshua: Bisexual.
Ethan: Oh. [intense feelings of deja vu from the last time a cute, blonde-haired, blue-eyed guy told him he was bi]
Then, makeouts.
Buh-
Wh-
WHY WOULD YOU COMMENT THIS?!
It’s what we were all hoping for but didn’t get! (Well, all except Yotomoe)
You just evoked all of my feels.
epic fanfic that maps to every strip proceeding, only it’s set in a world where this happened
*loud sobbing*
Actually, as a bisexual “not actually a lesbian” is generally exactly how I put it. I just end the statement with “I’m bi” afterwards.
This is my thought.
Ethan/Mike?
nawp, this guy right here.
he’s a lot cuter (and douchier) later
“The possibilities are endless” would fall more under pansexual or polysexual, really.
Pansexual is loving someone for their personality.
Polysexual is understanding the concept that gender isn’t necessarily binary and having an attraction to the whole spectrum.
Not everyone knows that pan is a thing.
In fact, it’s likely the vast majority of people here wouldn’t have even heard of it if not for the internet.
Also, your definitions confuse me. I’m pretty sure the ways you’re using pansexual and polysexual are interchangeable.
No his definitions are correct.
Pan-sexuality requires some form of courtship/getting to know you period. And then maybe they can fuck. A key example of this would be the Doctor as he tends to push away everyone physically until they know each other much better.
Poly-sexuality allows for raw lustfully feelings off the bat. Like say, Captain Jack Harkness who would make woopie with literally anything if it was attractive enough
And I am saying Joshua is either asexual or transgender.
Uh, no. Your definition of pan sounds a bit closer to panromantic demisexual. Pansexuality is just loving/being attracted to someone regardless of gender. The way you’re using “polysexual” is the same thing.
Seconded.
As I understand it, pansexual is “sexually attracted to all genders,” polysexual is “sexually attracted to more than one gender” (so for example someone who is polysexual might be attracted to cis men and trans women but not to trans men or cis women), and polyamory is “in love with more than one person at a time.”
I’ve also heard the term “biromantic” used to mean “able to fall in love with both men and women” and that seems like a relevant distinction to me. There are bisexual people who are not biromantic.
Damn it, I got Ethan. >.<'
Haven’t heard that definition of polysexual before. Actually, tbh, I’ve never heard anyone use the term in normal conversation before either. Pansexuality, as far as I can tell, seems to cover it. However, people may identify as they wish.
(polyamory isn’t necessarily being in love with multiple people at once – it just communicates a willingness or desire to be with multiple people, even if the person in question is not interested in anyone at the time)
Yeah, you DO need poly for people who’re attracted to more than two genders, but less than all of them (this is quite a large range to hit, y’know?).
Every -sexual orientation also has a -romantic counterpart. Biromantic, polyromantic, homoromantic, aromantic (NTBCW aromatic)…
Dammit Willis, this is Kubo-level trolling.
Damn, that’s harsh.
Fandom=Trolled.
Joshua not gay? But that does not compute.
My processor Computed it!
You’re at a processing level that exceeds this current space/time continuum. You must be destroyed to preserve the future of hope.
When enough signs point to a particular conclusion, that’s often a hint that it’s the wrong conclusion.
In fiction, anyway.
When you assume, you make an ass outta Uma Thurman.
Or make out with Uma Thurman’s ass.
I approve highly of Uma Thurman’s ass, and making out with it!
What an odd thing to say… “I’m not actually gay”… but it hasn’t been established that people in the universe think he is
He secretly writes for a gay porn magazine?
I called porn yesterday.
Acceptable answer.
HE’S AN MSM
Also… it was National Coming Out Day yesterday… you couldn’t have given us that one thing?
/Sobbing
I know how you feel…let it out…let the tears flow! 🙁
Wound, meet salt.
The WoundxSalt ship is too obvious, Willis will sink that one too tomorrow.
too many +1s
Well, Ethan coming out to Joshua….
I’m stuck between “Hah, I knew he wasn’t gay” and “Dammit Willis, I was shipping those two!”
This may not be the case, but there’s absolutely nothing in this strip that says he’s not bisexual.
I’m not sure his response makes sense that way. I get a “you’re on the wrong track” vibe here, not “close but no cigar.”
I dunno, if Josh is Bi, he might have assumed Ethan was also Bi [which would explain why he’s dating his sister]. This would be pretty much exactly what Ethan did when they assumed Josh was Gay [as well as many in the Audience who were seeing it from Ethan’s perspective].
So now they’re having a wonderful moment of;
“You’re not Gay?”
“You’re not Bi? Why are you dating a girl?”
Granted there are a tonne of other possibilities and I’m interested to see where this goes.
This actually sounds totally plausible, thinking on it.
I hope to Cheese you’re right.
Agreed. I think part of what makes it hard to know where Joshua’s coming from is that he may be more concerned about his sister than his own sexuality, right now. I mean, even if he was gay, wouldn’t it be an asshole move to date (or even flirt with) his *sister’s boyfriend*? He has brought up Joyce in the last two strips, and it’s clear he’s thinking that Ethan should gave been the one doing that…
Or maybe he’s bi, but not *single*?
SHUT UP HE’S BISEXUAL DAMMIT!
Catchphrase of fangirls everywhere since March 6, 2000.
Well, that’s one hell of a slap in the face for Ethan and readers alike. So I guess Joshua just has a generic sort of artist’s inner turmoil?
aaaaatheist.
And Willis just drop the iceberg on the ship. Is it too late to call Willis Master of Swerves?
Swerve what? HE DROPPED A DAMNED ICEBERG ON THE SHIP!
“Oh Captain, look at that iceberg.”
“Hm, yes Corporal Jefferies, maybe we should-”
SPLOOOSH
And the band just keeps right on playing.
Are… Are the fans the band in this analogy as we grasp onto the word “actually” and the small window of hope it has left us, despite our ship sinking about us?
Master of Fucks, Giver of None.
Good swerves, maybe.
Vince Russo still holds the crown for bad ones, tho.
Nice to see a fellow member of the WWF/E/Dumbing of Age crossover demographic.
Fear not! He hasn’t said that he’s straight, only that he isn’t gay. Bi is still technically on the table.
Or he could be asexual.
Or he could be pansexual.
I never understood what people see in pans, but whatever.
Dude, I’ve heard stories of folks having sexual intercourse with a damn table….in public. Doing a pan is the least weird thing I’ve heard.
Ouch! Splinters!
I hear this Pan dude was actually pretty good with the ladies.
He’s not actually gay, he just likes the look of a good shaft. He’s not actually gay, he just loves everyone’s butts, especially those on dudes.
I just had to drop in to say that this quote wins the internet.
Guys, this ship is so not dead. That’s the whole point of ships. They survive stuff like this. They’re fantasy and wish-fulfillment. Like, I have shipped things where one person DIED and I still ship it. This? This is nothing. I laugh in the face of a little non-gay-ness.
“Seemannstreue” by Joachim Ringelnatz (the link got one word wrong). There is even an animated Youtube video, but it’s lacking the grossiosity of the poem. A literal translation would be “Sailor’s faithfulness”, a fitting paraphrase “The sailor always rings twice”. Google translate would probably deliver something not half as awful as the original.
Make that “the sailor always ships twice”. Drats.
Okay, so everyone’s commenting on how weirdly he worded his confession (???)…
…The thing is though, that line is totally consistent with Joshua knowingly leading Ethan on earlier. wtf
Maybe he wanted to know what kind of person Ethan really is. That or the leading on part was unintentional.
Maybe he was leading him on to test his theory that Ethan was gay in order to try and protect his little sister.
Damm, i just used a watertight argument to sink one of my favorite ships even further.
It’s fun for drama but I wouldn’t call it a water tight argument; trying to prove your sibling’s SO is gay by leading them on is pretty disfunctional.
Not to claim the Browns as bastions of functionality but I’m going to split my bet between Bi-Sexual and Terminator from the Heteronormative Future sent to the past in order to destroy Ethan and thus crush the LGTBQ resistance before it begins.
Then thank Cheese that the dissolution of hetero-normativity is self perpetuating. Viva la resistance!
But what reason would he have to suspect Etham was gay?
New theory, though: Josh is an MSM.
tfw you see your typo as it’s posting but you can do absolutely nothing to correct it
Ethan gives off the vibe in the comic, especially when he’s around Joyce.
Sara put the pieces together in all but three seconds. I sort of assumed it was a running joke in this verse that pretty much everyone but Joyce [and her parents] realized it within a minute of meeting him because he was so awkward.
MSM?
He’s a Magnetic Shape Memory?
Methysulfonylmethane?
A Master-Slave Manipulator?
He has a Master of Science in Management? Possibly from the Mercator School of Management?
He speaks Modern Standard Mandarin while playing with the Miami Sound Machine on Mont Saint-Michel?
Men who have sex with men. A lot of them identify as straight, they’re just hot for other dudes.
…
I know I should respect people’s sexuality and all that jazz but…
seriously?
I’m sorry but no. I just sounds like DENIAL.
It’s basically the sexual version of “I’M NOT FAT, I’M BIG BONED”
Have you looked at the rest of this family?
His Sister is dating someone who’s outright told her he’s gay.
His Dad thinks hanging out with Atheists is basically morally equivalent to hanging out with Prostitutes and that Hitler was Probably Part Jewish.
And, well, general concensus is that his Mom is the worst of the pack.
Denial seems pretty realistic here.
My money is still on either Bi or “Heavens, no. I’m not gay, I prayed it away in summer camp years ago”.
S&M! It need not even necessarily be sexual. I can get behind MSM to some extent. Romantic and sexual attractions can be separate, and are for most people. Does having good manners turn you on or do you find it charming?
I think Yoto’s talking about MSM, not Joshua in particular.
It’s probably exceedingly rare, but there’s likely at least one heteroromantic homosexual out there.
Male sexuality can be complicated. Imagine a man who is not attracted to body hair or male curves, but who enjoys being penetrated in various ways. Such a man might have sex with men for the physical feeling, without being visually attracted to men enough to consider himself gay.
So? Who says he has to be “gay” or “straight” or whatever your label scheme suggests?
I usually refer to that as “heteroflexible”, but that works I guess.
sophi calm down, it seems like you getting a bit too attached on this ship.
why does everyone seem to think this
I am literally just throwing out every half-baked idea/theory in my head for funsies.
Cease the non-believer!! Burn the witch!!
Haha. Just messing with ‘ya.
The fact that Ethan started putting the moves on him the instant they met?
He didn’t lead Ethan on. He was conversing with him, and you can pretty much see the moment he caught on to what was going on, at which point he left immediately.
+1
HA!
BADABABADABUP!
Is this to imply that you give a Fux?
Naw, I actually own this shirt.
You’re enjoying this way too much Yotomoe.
Dancing on the wreckage of the ship!
Well if Joshua’s not gay then what is it that his parents don’t know about him?
Answers pretty obvious.
Serial killer.
Satanist?
Cthuluist?
Rastafarian?
Pastafarian?
Dadaistfarian?
A doctor.
The Doctor?
Webcartoonist.
In this verse he, not Jacob, is the sex addict.
Who exactly response that sort of question in this sort of context with “I’m not ACTUALLY Gay”?
As much as I love to pour gasoline on ships and laugh at the ensuing chaos, this implies to me he’s either Bi, uncover as a Gay person for a Christian Newspaper or else maybe is Gay but thinks Praying cured him?
There are so many wonderful possibilities. I’m hoping for one of the left fielders because otherwise the Brown Family situation has been smoothed over too easily.
Or he got vibes off Ethan and was faking it to see if Ethan would respond.
Oooh, to draw out a confession of why he’s dating Joyce? I like it.
He may not have been “faking” anything. His body language seemed a -little- flirty, but that could just be his typical demeanor. However, I -do- think he picked up on Ethan’s “Hello there, little filly” and was biding his time waiting for the question.
My guess was he’s been asked a lot. Some straight people just confuse everyone’s gaydar, and eventually either get used to it or grow a beard.
A beard (of any sort) won’t stop this.
Well, I have a drag act. Try doing folksy music with an alto voice in straight garb, and at some point of time you’ll go tired of answering the “why are you singing like a woman” questions with “was there anything wrong with it?” or “because I can!”. Do it in drag, and you get no questions, no talkback, just a satisfied audience. Even though this is a rather straight act, no husky-voice jokes and whatever. Just multinational folklore, self-accompanied on accordion and tied together with appropriate moderation.
Then from back at a time when I practised with a gay show choir (thought I could use it for my act until I got ousted, but more due to the established tenor primadonna conspiring against the vocal usurpator than my untypical sexual orientation) I had a male dancing partner I practised occasionally with (quite fun). I actually went to a gay workshop with him where I chose, uh, not to come in? How do you call it if you try keeping your heterosexuality discretely unmentioned?
So I have my own share of situations where my personal sexual leanings are entirely disappointingly straight. If I don’t want to feel left out, I claim that I am a transsexual lesbian since I’m comfortable being male even though I’m into women.
Well that ship got Pearl Harbored. I did not expect that.
Ethan’s dad is still totally gay, though.
I think Joshua has converted to Judiasm and will whip out a bad ass yarmulke and jump up on the fountain ledge to sing from “Fiddler on the Roof”
L’chaim!
“I’m not actually gay, I’m bisexual.”
…What? I have to give the shippers some hope.
My first thought also.
There’s also the possibility of his being asexual and biromantic or homoromantic.
I love seeing Joyce avatars commenting on Joshua’s orientation and shipping.
To be honest, unless the breakup between Joyce and Ethan is completely mutual I don’t see Joshua hooking up with Ethan.
That would be considered a dick move on Joshua’s part to hook up with his sisters boyfriend.
Yeah, I totally agree with you there. I was kind of happy to see Joshua start to get protective of Joyce in the last couple of panels today.
Oh my aching shipper’s heart.
and yet its probably for the best that Joshuthan can’t happen. Because poor Joyce if that ended up happening. Its one thing to have a gay boyfriend, its entirely different to have a gay boyfriend who’s secretly in love with your brother.
Noooooooo that make’s me so so very sad. ;(
ALL I WANTED WAS ONE M/M SHIP I SWEAR TO GOD
iktf
/sob Please don’t invoke the feels.
To late…they are already here!
(shrug) You can always keep shipping them. One or more of the participants being straight hasn’t stopped me from shipping Joyrothy.
I will bet Joshua gets hit on a lot by gay men, so that might account for the “actually.” Often gay men think short goodlooking men are gay.
I already guessed he is an atheist and agreed with Yotomoe that he is not gay. Maybe Joshua is a bi crossdresser who belongs to a free love commune.
I had a neighbor once who assumed everyone was gay. I almost had to physically assault him to get him to keep his hands off me. (I’m on the autism spectrum, and don’t take well to being touched without my permission.)
I am gay (or something) and I would have all kinds of problems with that scenario.
(asd person here as well)
I may be stereotyping here, but that explains the flair appeal on our fanarts. (hint hint on the word “our”)
As I suggested somewhere below this, I think the “actually” is because he picked up on Ethan’s signals (or loudspeaker shouts, if you prefer) and has been waiting for the question.
So! Joshua isn’t gay—-
he’s just happy
“Heh, no, I’m not actually gay. I’m just that much of a crazy whore.”
#OwnIt
How did I not think of this? I mean, how else could a writer really support himself?
I had a weird vibe this was gonna happen.
Everyone felt it. But we all hopes Willis wouldn’t do it.
We never learn our lesson.
I don’t anyway…
Abandon ship! Abandon ship! It’s going down!
Every man/woman for himself/herself!!!
If it were “going down”, there wouldn’t be so many broken shipper hearts… 😉
(rimshot)
WEEOOOWEEEOOO
In Willis’s diary, the entry for the day this strip was written states simply:
“Sighted Ship. Sank Same.”
You are a beautiful person, and I think I hate you a little for it.
Your grav makes that comment even more painful. Billie’s smirk…
I think my gravatar would have been better.
Hmmm… possibly so!
Sad trombone. XD XD
http://www.sadtrombone.com/
Enjoy.
thanks 😀
Is he… a … socialist? (cue violin screech)
“I’m not actually gay. I’m actually Ronald Reagan reincarnated.”
LOVE it
Or he could be FDR.
Nah, Joshua is actually the Second Coming of Christ. Turns out the Mormons were right.
Who was the First Coming of Christ if Joshua was Second?
The New Testament.
So Joshua is a Testament? Could have sworn he was a prophet.
Don’t be silly. His parents would rejoice at that. Even if it -would- promote eastern religion.
Isn’t that Christianity is also part of Eastern religions?
If you want to get technical, Christianity only really started off as a distinct religion in Rome.
It also depends on what you mean by the term. Everyplace is east of somewhere. (actually, technically, everyplace is east of everywhere, but that’s aside the point.)
When the hell did Willis get U-boats?
He have them from the very beginning. We just didn’t see it yet.
+2 internets
And now he looked like a dick, guess we where wrong, but it only looked bad on Ethan, really really bad
What if Joshua secretly writes erotica novels? He is a “feelance writer”, he harbors shame or shyness about something, and he has intentionally kept that information away from his parents (and seemingly from his siblings). I place my money on “Joshua the Sexnerd”.
Or Joshua the Pornomancer.
I am now going to use pornomancer in everyday sentences. Thank you Aizat.
Glad I could help.
Satanic S&M porn, for maximum effect.
He’s not “actually” gay, he just writes gay porn…
*Ship explodes in my face*
Aggh! The Drama! It burns! It burnnnns!
So this still begs the question, what IS/ARE Joshua’s dark secrets. Is he atheist or agnostic? What the heck could he be hiding that is so huge that he gave off the vibe that his parents would hate him if they knew more about him.
He wrote “50 Shades of Grey”. Embarrassment all around!
And his own “50 Shades of Gay”. Not bad for 2 bestseller series.
I bet if it isn’t to do with religion, it has to do with his politics. His parents are probably extremely conservative, and perhaps he is extremely liberal. That would make a lot of sense regarding his comments about his writing and being unable to be himself normally.
“That’s rough, buddy” — Prince Zuko
Understatement of the year.
You know, I like this strip as much as I did “Omaha”. They both told a great story, and the reader actually gave a damn about the characters.
And I didn’t have to wait until one of the creators was dead before finding out about it.
Hey is it just me or does Ethan look kinda… weird today? Like… rounder face?
Wait no, that’s stupid… it’s angular… I can’t even describe what I”m seeing, he just looks off.
Willis is not always consistent with his Ethans. Yesterday’s Ethan is personally my favorite.
Today’s Ethan looks like a mime.
“I’M A MIME!”
Something to consider: the emphasis is on the word “not”, not “actually”.
As in, “I’m not actually gay, I was just fucking with you because I might actually turn out to be a huge asshole”.
/sigh. I’m actually really worried I’ll start disliking Joshua. There are a few troubling signs (and no, not because he bombed the ship I liked by being not-gay).
I dunno, I can’t imagine someone being raised in that strict a Christian household [to the point that they won’t talk to Atheists] getting his kicks by leading on gay guys in front of his parents.
I mean maybe if he was the rebel in the family but he’s clearly not. He also seems pretty sincere in his interactions with Ethan really; if he was doing this to be a really be a jerk, he could have gone further. Or he would have wanted to humiliate him sooner since there’s always the possibility that he’d not see him again during the trip.
Generally, I suspect the only way that it could be a deliberate fake out would be if he was trying to bait Ethan to confess to protect Joyce, but I suspect this isn’t the case as it would invovle cunning and a lot of manipulation which would be a wierd and sudden twist of character.
Well honestly, I don’t know how else to make sense of the way he said it.
I wanna keep hoping, but I just don’t know…
It could just be that he gets this a lot, so he’s not surprised Ethan assumed he was gay because a lot of people do.
vshophi, from the comments you posted today it seems like you just angry because your ship failed to sail properly….
Here is a timeline of my emotions last night through today:
– first comment, incredibly excited, and not even disappointed, strangely enough
– posting for a while, finally feeling the disappointment
– later on, things start to mellow out, my attention is brought to the oddity of the way he replied to Ethan
– I start thinking about it
– I stay on the comment section all night because it’s really easy to tab back and forth when I come up with new conclusions after thinking so hard about it
– I stay disappointed for a while until this post happens, after which, I have started to be suspicious of Joshua and resent the ship
– resentment of ship continues throughout the night
– everything I post up ’til the time I go to bed aren’t super serious (though I was really excited about the relief theory I posted further down the page)
– go to bed, resentin’ (and drawing new fanart with three all new ships)
– wake up, get back on computer
– reach this comment, still kind of “hmngh” about the whole thing, and now kinda just worried about Ethan
I guess it’s because normal people don’t get this obsessive about things? I really just like analyzing fiction, that’s all, and Willis comics are perfect for it.
Hahaha that’s fine. At least you don’t like those Digimon anime fans…..
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA I SO KNEW IT!
*collects shipper tears for his tea*
Willis you evil bastard, I freaking love you in a totally straight way.
You mean in a not actually gay way?
So by not actually gay, does that still leave the possibility he is bi? As a bi reader, I may be harboring perverse sexual lust.
^Not sure if that is a highly appropriate gravitar, or a hilariously appropriate one.
Joe WOULD find it to be perverse.
On the plus side he’s into that.
Hah! In your faces! Called it!
well FUCK.
Oh man, panel 2… He says it directly to camera and everything.
I can’t decide which is the best bit:
1) Willis drew this strip and committed it to the buffer long before seeing the fan reaction to Josh. Man knows his readers.
2) This conversation was scheduled to happen right on National Coming Out Day IRL.
3) Josh turns to camera and looks directly at the shippers just as he drops the bombshell. See point 1.
4) Josh not being gay is a bigger bombshell than him coming out.
*slow clap*
Well played, Willis. Well played.
He’s even looking down a bit, as if at the comments XD
It seems intentional. Even Ethan is doing it at Panel 1, like some sort of PSA.
Perverse sexual announcement?
This is a totally legit interpretation, and probably more likely than the one I posted down there.
However, if he’s not addressing the fourth wall here, mine is like, totes the right one, yo.
Willis is kind of a (accidental?) genius.
HANG ON GUYS HE MAY BE BI THE SHIP MAY YET SET SAIL
Then again even if he was I doubt he’d go with ethan due to the fact that it would likely break joyces heart.
Nevermind ship still sunk…
All aboard the lifeboats…passengers must still survive!
Meanwhile, in the Shipsinker…..
Goddammit Ethan.
Point to note, that Josh is completely unfazed by the fact of Ethan’s orientation and jumps straight to “OK, so what’s going on?”, clearly having more experience of life outside the bubble than his parents / Joyce. Makes me wonder what battle he’s choosing to avoid, if it’s not his own orientation (assuming Willis isn’t also making a point about “straight” and “gay” not being the only available options).
Also huh, I’m Mary now? Well, this is awkward.
Also note his choice of words. I don’t think somebody as fundamentally christian as his parnts would say ”Why the hell”.
I’m glad someone brought this up.
Nope! Not true at all! He is definitely gay! Ethan needs to rip his clothes off right now and make him have a moment of self-realization!
That sounds like it could get unpleasant fast.
Now that what I call “Pray the gay to stay”. 😀
That would be awkward considering the members of the group on the opposite side of the fountain
Ethan walks away, and the entire rest of DoA’s run is just him drinking to forget.
DoA: Drinking of Aethan.
He could be lying.
Joshua is secretly a writer of M/M stories for a Gay male magazine. It’s why he gay-darred Ethan because of the ‘research’ he had to do when he first started writing for it.
Anyway, now that Willis just sunk that ship without warning, I say we all move on to another ship that this series has recently made possible.
Give me Dorothy and Joyce fun Willis, even if you must add Walky as the chocolate cream filling.
It’s not too much to ask… you have teased your readers for ages with possibilities of lesbian relationships but every time it looks possible you cut off from them and never bring them up again as happened with the gender studies teacher and Roz’s sister or the school paper editor, or in Ruth and Billie’s case switched it off after just one kiss and turned them into AA co-coaches.
Let me hear it shippers… JOYCExDOTTY will prevail against the odds and Willis’ mighty ship torpedo attacks where other ships flounder!
1) Billie/Ruth is a given.
2) Robin/Leslie is pretty much a given, though I don’t think all that much screen time will be devoted to it.
3) Daisy is not a main character, and likely never will be.
4) You forgot about Mandy and Grace.
5) All the gay in this comic has been of the lesbian variety, though that’s to be expected, as most of the cast is female.
6) Look, we just want another gay/bi/etc. guy on the cast, all right? IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK, WILLIS?
7) Lesbians are pretty neato though, I approve.
I don’t know that Robin/Les is a given, considering that they’re already a couple in the other continuity and Willis seems keen on exploring different areas. Also Les is in pretty much a solid mentor-type position, and you don’t usually have much cause to dig into that role’s personal life.
Regardless, they have chemistry. Also, I agree that Leslie and Robin won’t be developed as much. They exist as functions of the other chars – no more, no less.
Funnily enough, they’ve both been used to further Roz’s character development in large part.
I’ll agree that it’s not a given (though I’m hoping; nothing can be right in the ‘verse if Robin doesn’t have her lesbian), but Robin is coming from a sufficiently different place in this universe that just because it ends with Robin and Leslie getting down licky-style doesn’t mean it would be a rehash of Shortpacked.
From what unfortunately little we’ve seen of that plot thread, it looks like it’s not so much about Robin’s sexuality (Roz seems pretty sure that Leslie/Robin is something she can make happen, and while stupid overconfidence is in-character for Roz, she’s probably got reasons for believing it… this is her sister, after all), which is been there, done that, but an exploration of hypocrisy and honesty, of standing up for what you believe rather than for what you want to get.
Chocolate? Mocha, caramel, honey, maybe carob. But NOT chocolate or vanilla.
Ethan in that last panel is being pretty honest, methinks.
Whadda Tweest!
And yet another sunken ship, thanks Willis
I’m just gonna start shipping Ethan/Dina because at least I won’t get my hopes up
you shouldn’t say it out loud or that might get sunk also
Faz/Billie. There’s one that will never happen.
Do not court the whims of the author like that.
Fay/any people from DoAverse will end up with tears and dreadnaught ship.
Faz, not Fay, damn typo.
I’m starting to get the suspicion that Ethan isn’t very good at being gay.
2008 Robin agrees with you.
Ethan in early Shortpacked is also a mess. He walked away from the toy store shows him finally reach maturity.
You know, guys, it occurred to me that Joshua’s expression in panel 2 is kind of a mirror of Ethan’s in panel 1.
…jus’ sayin’.
You’re trying anything to make this happen, don’t you?
More like I’m constantly going back and analyzing what’s happening in the strip, making observations as I go along.
The only conclusion I’ve really come to thus far is that Joshua reacted to that weirdly. I don’t know what it means, or if it even means anything, but there it is.
Just when I thought it was about to get predictable, you throw in one hell of a twist. Well played.
Top 10 Reasons Why Joyce/Dorothy Need to Be Shipped:
10) They actually wore matching sweater vests and under blouses for their first ‘date’.
09) They have been thrown at each other time and again across the various universes so obviously something is begging for new context.
08) Becoming a lesbian is so much better than dating a gay guy as a shim and will lead to a lot less heartache in the long run for everyone.
07) It will finally take the pressure off of poor Joshua and he can finally man up to whatever it is he feels his parents would hate about him.
06) Everyone who hates her says that Joyce needs to grow up, Dorothy made _Walky_ seem mature after getting it on with him.
05) Joyce can remain a technical virgin before marriage as her parents / the Bible demands it (sex with another girl doesn’t require penetration – that’s just more fun).
04) Considerring voter’s opinions of atheists in America, Joyce’s upbringing would actually benefit Dorothy’s electorial bids.
03) Sarah’s face when she finds out that Joyce is now into girls will be hilarious if her face when she overheard a convo from a few strips back is anything to go by.
02) Yotomoe will cry when Joyce/Dorothy ship sails instead of the Faz/Dina ship.
01) Willis’ book cover says it all… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWORFi4CEAAWo-0.jpg
That’s ridiculous.
Yoto isn’t going to cry just because a ship unrelated to his crack pairing sailed.
Also Walky and Dotty haven’t actually got it on yet.
Finally you neglected to mention the fact that Dotty and Joyce are totes adorkable together.
Joyce would make an excellent First Lady.
NOOO YOU SANK MY [BATTLE]FANDOMSHIP.
DAMN YOU WILLIS!!!
DAAAAAAAAAMN
YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
WIIIILLIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
If Joshua is an atheist, and his parents find that out, he may well wish he were gay. At least with homosexuality there is the possibility of still believing in a god, but an outright refusal/rejection of God/Jesus Christ guarantees 0 tolerance or acceptance from any fundamentalist Christian community. As an atheist myself, I hope the best for Joshua.
When we are talking about fundamental Christians, that’s about par with “At least with murder there is the possibility of still believing in capital punishment”. The Old Testament (which is the main source for cherry-picking fundamental beliefs) is pretty clear in its directions of putting the offender out of his misery. I don’t quite remember whether it was just the top, though. But with regard to actual sodomy (namely involving livestock) I pretty clearly remember that both human and animal were supposed to be punished, so it’s likely the same with “lying with a man as though he were a woman”.
Note that fundamentals tend to skip over the laws that would require them to stone gynecologists, or to lock their wives in a bathhouse at the time of their uncleanliness or whatever else.
I think what NJ was going for (please, correct me if I’m wrong) was that Joyce’s parents, although they would certainly be something like horrified if it turned out that Joshua was gay, would probably still be what they think of as supportive (even if that means doing some “pray the gay away” type-crap), because they might recognize it either as simply a sin (according to the school of thought where homosexuality is viewed as a choice), or, and this is rather unlikely, they recognize it as not being a choice. Either way, I could see the Browns as still being “we’re disappointed in you, but we love you, and we’ll help you get through this.” Not a great attitude, but still.
Contrast this with being atheist, which there is no way they will see it as anything OTHER than a choice, as Joshua willingly rejecting everything they raised him by, and, as one of them put it, meaning he “has no moral foundation.” Contrasted with the loving, but intolerant attitude that seems likely if Joshua were to come out as gay, they would probably go nuclear if Joshua informed them that he was an atheist, given their reaction (especially Carol’s) to Joyce even associating with an atheist.
Exactly my point, thank you.
Please be bisexual.
Well, that’s disappointing. He’s not “actually” gay.
Screw it. He’s secretly a Dom, has a dungeon in his parents basement. All those people coming over for “Bible Study” … yeah, not so much.
Or he start showing up with Sonic costume and fans start to avoid him…..
DAMB YOU WILLIS!!!!
Lovin’ the evening color scheme from these last few strips.
I am soooo glad that he isnt gay.
Why?
Because…..cheese.
Because he wants Ethan for himself, obv.
Sexy interpretation. I like it.
I’m glad because it rules out a cheating-on-Joyce-with-her-brother subplot.
Oh snap!
A hilarious(/unfortunate?) contextual red herring.
Yes… especially given what’s just been revealed about his relationship with his parents, his previously-given reasons for being a writer are still wholly applicable…
This should be interesting. (!)
See, I was thinking, him being gay? Too easy/obvious. Joshua’s deal is that he’s actually, like, a slightly different brand of Christian than the rest of the family. Or maybe he just went all-out and became a Satanist. Whatever.
Why not make him hard to get if Joshua being gay is “too easy” for the fan’s taste? Kinda like Billie-Ruth.
Slightly different brand of Christian?
You mean … like maybe Roman Catholic??
I’ve known a couple of fundies. Being Roman Catholic is the next best thing to being Satanist, as far as they’re concerned.
(They’re also not really good at the whole Bible-reading thing. They get especially annoyed when I cut off their public recitation of elaborate prayers by saying, “Matthew 6:5.”)
Pretty interesting. I know this is a possible plot line but it seems that a lot of people felt heartbroken when Joshua is not gay. Sinking ship by the iceberg named Willis.
But I want to see what with Joshua’s deal. Is he an atheist? Or is he joining other branch of Christianity? Or is he fell in love with a woman with different believe? Or he convert to different religion to become Buddhist or Moslem? Don’t tell me he’s in relationship with Asma!
Now, I’m interested on that last part.
In spite of what the government wants to make you believe, there are actually more justifications for privacy than being a terrorist. Perhaps he’s just not into the “ordinary children have nothing to fear” rap.
Hey, I got Sarah back. Cool! Do gravatars actually gravitate towards matching personalities?
Mine is Amber, so… no.
Wait… yes? Actually, I don’t even know. I don’t think I’m adorable enough to be Amber though.
I used to have Dotty as gravatar. But I’m very okay with this change.4
Uh…. why suddenly you mention terrorism? just because I mention Moslem?
I’d bet he’s an atheist. It’d explain why he really strongly wanted to bolt when his parents were getting on Joyce about consorting with a nonbeliever.
Atheist is a possibility. But it’s a bit too obvious. I mean “Strict Christian parents made their children turn Atheist” is a pretty typical plot in many stories. We need something new and fresh.
“Atheist” does not even make sense since atheism is a conviction-based sibling to agnosticism. If you can’t make yourself believe in a god, that does not mean you are atheist. You are just a struggling theist. If you stop struggling, you are agnostic. If you tell others they are fools for struggling, you are an atheist. But Jordan is not telling others. That’s why everybody is still trying to puzzle him out.
I’ve got issues with your definitions of “atheist” and “agnostic”, but even accepting the dubious proposition that atheism requires evangelism… he’s not telling his family. That doesn’t mean he’s not telling anyone.
Thinking about it, we never really understood what Drew’s problem was with Ethan’s toy collecting and why he was such a jerk to him about it.
My money’s on this being the same situation; we never find out what Joshua’s deal is.
I think with Drew it’s pretty clear. He want to see Ethan cut back on his hobbies because he felt overwhelmed with them. For Drew what he want for their future is different from what Ethan want for his future.
Joshua…. yeah, we never know what the deal is.
Glad to see there’s a few others viewing the burning wreckage of the Fail Ship Ethan/Joshua from a distance laughing maniacally as the shippers drown in tears.
While some of them drink from the tears of those shippers. BTW, what is the taste of tears?
A good question my good man shippers tears are bitterly sweat and i must say are going excellent with my taco right now
I don’t see this much shippers crying except the ending of the Digimon anime.
Tbh that ending was so sudden it’s like a saboteur snuck in to the ship and C4 the engine and the hulls and detonate it when it’s almost reaching its destination.
okokok I’m sorry I’ve made up like, a seventh of this entire comment section so far, but hear me out here:
I’ve been mulling this revelation over in my mind for quite a bit now, and after saying it out loud several times in a variety of different ways, plus matching it with his body language, I’ve come to the conclusion that the feeling Joshua is currently expressing re: his sexuality is relief.
When Ethan asks him if he’s gay, he does not react with disgust or irritation, as would be expected if he gets mistaken for gay often. He also does react with indifference, apathy, or confusion as would be expected if he was simply informing Ethan of his proclivities. No, he does that little laugh and self-satisfied smile to himself. He’s not even looking at Ethan while he says it. And with the emphasis on “not”, relief (or awe) is the only tone of voice that matches up with his expression.
Maybe he was confused, maybe he’s an ex-gay, maybe he had an exception. It could be any, all, or none of these. However, this interpretation is the only one that really makes sense to me.
The captain always goes down with the ship.
Analyzing a character’s behavior and body language makes me a “captain”? I liked the pairing, but honestly, I almost want Ethan to stay away from him now, for his own sake.
Being last on board.
Suffering more deeply than any other crewman.
And most importantly drawing an awesome fanart-flag for the Joshutan.
This is what made you captain.
…. honored to have served under your orders sir.
…I am suddenly cool with this position.
You’re shipping wrong if you consider the feelings of those involved! It’s all about you!
This has been a humorous joke.
does not* react with indifference
whoopsie, that kinda changed the whole argument there for a sec
Actually, I think that “not actually gay” is mostly to do with the fact that he knows that Ethan thinks he’s gay, and has been blatantly sending signals to him, and has consequently been waiting for Ethan to ask.
I was originally inclined to agree, but there are two things that still seem off in that scenario:
1) It makes Joshua look like kind of a dick. I mean, c’mon, he looks amused by the (alleged) mistake. Also, if he realized it early on, he shouldn’t have encouraged Ethan’s advances. All he had to do was cut it off after the introduction. One could argue he did just that (albeit a little late), but he clearly decided to bail for a different reason.
2) It’s still pretty weird how he’s not making eye contact with Ethan. There are two ways to explain this: either he’s talking to the readers, or something’s being concealed. I concede the former is more likely, but I think it’d be pretty interesting if it was indeed the latter.
1) I disagree. If you reread the previous scene, he’s initially just answering Ethan’s questions and conversing normally. You can pretty much see the point at which he realized what was happening, at which point he immediately stopped chatting and left. And throughout the whole thing, the instant he was -sure- Ethan was gay, he immediately went the “what are you doing to my little sister??” direction.
2) I seriously doubt anybody is “talking to the readers”. Ethan’s avoiding eye contact either because he’s checking to see if anybody’s looking their way, or just because he’s putting himself out there and is intimidated by the prospect. Joshua’s glance away indicates that he’s thinking about something else when he says it. It could be he’s lying, because “WTF I’m not going to sit here while my sister’s boyfriend hits on me, what’s wrong with you???”, or it could be because he’s thinking about what he’s -actually- hiding from his parents. (Hell, it might even be an “If only…” kind of expression. If he’s an atheist, as I suspect, he might well be thinking about how much easier it’d be to come out to his parents if he was gay instead.)
2) I came up with the PSA conclusion because this has happened before. A lot of fans were asking for confirmation on Ethan’s sexuality, so much that he has made a separate post about it. This post with the characters staring at the audience, maybe, is his way of saying Joshua’s not gay.
1) How exactly did you come to that conclusion? His mind is clearly elsewhere when he’s talking to Ethan there. I’m not sure how you can dispute this, especially since he himself doubts his ability to show restraint about this kind of thing in the last strip: “Might say some stuff I can’t ever take back.”
2) a. Haven’t you ever heard of Aside Glances? Mindfully employing tropes is certainly not beyond Willis.
b. Ethan’s obviously doing that sort of awkward, casual, aloof thing when you’re trying to act like you aren’t particularly interested in the answer, but you secretly are. You do have a point about Joshua; he could be thinking of his actual secret there. However, it still does not fit the way he responded to Ethan’s question. Try saying it out loud a few times: there are only a couple ways it really sounds natural with the word “not” stressed here.
If things had played out differently, we would probably be of the same opinion. However, given the sequence of events being what they are, his reaction to Ethan’s advances just does not seem realistic.
1) I don’t see what that has to do with the claim that Ethan led Joshua on, which is what I was talking about there. In the first scene, I think he was just being friendly, until panal 5 of this comic:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/freelance/
At which point he immediately excused himself, and was guarded and slightly accusatory when Ethan approached him here:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/heated/
The line you’re quoting is about not wanting to get involved in the argument between his parents and his sister, because -whatever- his secret is, he’s afraid he’ll give it out if he confronts them. (which is part of what makes me think it relates to belief, rather than sexuality)
2) I have heard of aside glances. But the whole joke on an aside glance is that it’s an obvious breach of the 4th wall, and that isn’t so obvious here. Also, there are perfectly reasonable in-universe reasons for them to be avoiding eye contact, namely that Ethan is risking outing himself, and Joshua is aware of Ethan’s interest and the problems that it represents. If they were -both- eyeing the content section, or if they both paused to look at the camera, I might be more inclined to believe that’s what’s going on, but Ethan’s looking off to the left(presumably the direction of Joyce and the ‘rents…) and Joshua is looking down and away from Ethan. (avoiding eye contact in an awkward situation)
As far as the line, I think it works perfectly well if he knows that Ethan -thinks- he’s gay, and I honestly don’t see -any- reactions to Ethan’s advances. He answered some questions about what he does and why, realized something was amiss, left, came back later, was cagey and evasive until Ethan -asked- if he was gay, and in so asking outed himself. At which point Joshua confronted him. That makes complete sense to me in the context we’ve been given.
1) I was responding to the claim that Joshua left, “the point at which he realized what was happening”. When he leaves, he is clearly not thinking about Ethan. He is “cagey and guarded” because he’s trying to avoid his parents.
2) Here’s the thing: it’s weird that Joshua’s apparently “cagey and guarded” in his first interactions, then spontaneously pleasant/satisfied. If I were in his situation, after realizing Ethan is gay (and dating my sister), I’d respond in decidedly more unpleasant way (with irritation, most likely). It makes more sense that after Ethan makes his inquiry, he connects the dots somewhere between panel 2 and panel 4, which leads to his negative mood.
Man. I feel like we read completely different comics.
So you’re through discussing it? I:
I would guess confused. He did have that moment of doubt here (http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/freelance/), and seeing more of the Browns being dicks adds more meaning to his other scentences in that strip
I forgot to add that he may just be protecting Joyce’s relationship; Joshua doesn’t want to hurt Joyce by dating her ex-boyfriend.
Maybe he just gets it a lot.
People don’t tend to respond so genially to something they hear a lot.
What I hate the most is that Panels 1 and 2 feel like they are actually facing the audience while delivering their lines like some PSA to rub it in our face.
OH SHIT
THE JIG IS UP
RUN, JOSHUA, RUN
Joshua? Ethan’s the one in trouble here.
So if he’s not gay, what’s his big secret? Is he a Satanist on the sly?
Well, he said not exactly gay, so he could be bi, pan or trans.
I think what is important to take away from this is that Joshua just blasphemed, this is truly why he is the black sheep of the family
What, no, Joshua’s the favorite (because they know the least about him). Jordan’s the most likely black sheep of the family.
oh god guys, you know what
ethan danned it
he danned it good
Oh wow, you’re right.
Maybe he’s a sex addict? That might explain the ‘not actually gay’ comment.
DAMN YOU WILLIS
Damn! Damn! Damn! Curse you until the thirteenth generation
SWERVE!
Congratulations to those who called it, and my condolences to those who are disappointed.
Damn you, Willis!
torpedo to the starboard bow, and this ship is sunk
I’m thinking atheist
Catholic altar boy would probably be more horrifying to his parents.
Too obvious, need a more interesting twist.
At the end of today, Joshua is headed back to his adult life and Ethan is still a confused 18 year old. It may take decades for us to even see Joshua again. It’s not like older brothers drop in on their younger siblings all the time and parent’s day has lasted for months. He is a plot device fully installed and waiting to be used later. And ‘not actually gay’ is sufficiently ambiguous to mean all kinds of things, ex-gay included.
But Joshua is being the adult in the area and making it clear that dating his sister while gay is not OK and can only end badly.
Still waiting for Naomi to notice this little private conversation.
imagine naomi seeing them together and making a big stink about it, accusing joshua of trying to seduce her son in earshot of just about everybody
I can see why so many shipped this one. It does almost seem like Joshua was playing Ethan a bit. But one does wonder what Joshua’s secrets are.
I kind of like some people shipping Joyce/Dorothy…but can you imagine the freaking out Joyce would do realizing she was into girls?? She’d be a wreck!
The DoA fandom lives for wrecks. How else could we stand the unbearable torment that is the very foundation upon which rests a Willis™ brand creation?
I am starting to realize this 🙂 I’m fairly new to DoA and the rest of the Willisverse. I must say though seeing Joyce dealing with THAT revelation about herself would be entertaining.
HA
“I’m bisexual!”
We all know how to hide secrets by being TECHNICAL, JOSHUA, you’re not the FIRST to pull this trick on everyone.
Nobody ever asks if you’re bi.
Come to think of it, the way he phrased it (and presumably “toned” it), could indicate that people tend to think he’s gay because he’s bi (checks out dudes, may be dating one, etc.).
I used to get asked if I was gay all the time. Despite having a girlfriend.
I just say “I like girls way too much to be gay.” If people are too dense to understand what I mean by that then eh.
Joshua seems like a decent guy who can totally read the situation with Ethan. I think he wants to shut that crush down in a kind, but firm way. So if he is dating a guy, he would probably just clear that up.
Nice curve ball Willis
And yes, all the Browns children have giant blue eyes. It HAS to be a dominant trait.
not so sure about the glasses though.
But the triangle smile is exclusively Joyce?
A MILLION times better than a ship for these two. I friggin’ love this comic so much.
I want to damn Willis, but my desire to high five him is much too great.
This is how the master does it, people.
Not mutually exclusive desires. Watch:
DAMN YOU, WILLIS!
:::sigh:::
High five, dude.
High DAMN-FVE, you WILLIS-DUDE !
Nachitos for you, Leonou!
After this concludes, and Ethan walks away with his opinion on his relationship changed, Joshua pulls off his mask.
He was Mike all along.
“Mike? What the hell did you do with Joshua?”
“There is no Joshua, dilweed. I’ve been riding this out for over 20 years.”
You win the internet.
We really need to create a new trope called Mike Gambit.
Someone who goes RIDICULOUSLY far out of their way to make people suffer?
Sounds like a trope if I’ve ever heard one!
So… why is everything tinted purple? Is it because of the sunset?
Yes.
In that universe there’s microbes in the stratosphere that will change the colour of sunrays randomly.
Do u think David reads the comments just to pick the outcome that will upset the most people
He can’t: buffer.
The way he predicted all this would happen months before has led me to believe that Willis is actually a prophet. Who of course uses his powers to troll people with comics.
Not a prophet — a fabulous storyteller. We are just picking up on the clues he leaves us in the strip. Some turn out to be foreshadowing, and some — DAMN YOU, WILLIS! — turn out to be nothing but teasers. Either way, he is a puppetmaster, pulling our little strings with his mighty pen (or computer graphics program, or whatever).
woah, That’s a bit unexpected
I like how Joshua is not surprised or offended by Ethan’s assumption he was gay. He must get that a lot.
He could be bisexual. Or pansexual. Or demisexual. Or asexual. THERE ARE POSSIBILITIES DAGNABBIT.
He could be sexualhandgranat.
Bah. Well, then, his big secret is either that he’s bisexual or he’s an atheist.
Or he’s some other heathen religion. Or he does porn. Premarital hanky panky. Polyamory. Democrat and/or liberal. Communist. Libertarian. Serial killer. Furry. Otherkin. Trans. Alcoholic. Stoner. Sex addict*. Interracial dating. Man-child. Drag queen and/or transvestite. Genderqueer.
There are a bunch of things out there that bigots like the Browns would disapprove of.
*i am slightly on-board with shipping jacob and joshua
I love that phrase: “Premarital hanky panky”! Ever since Joyce first said it, I’ve loved it!
Due to a lack of evidence otherwise, I am forced to assume Joshua is all of these at once.
That’s not how evidence works yet it is hilarious.
YOU HAVE GIVEN ME COGNITIVE DISSONANCE. HOW DARE YOU CANDYMAN. NEXT YOU’LL TELL ME CHOCOLATE IS MADE OF SQUIRRELS.
Only nut chocolate.
D&D player.
Probably, but being atheist is a tad bit too typical in many stories and webcomics. I wish Willis to surprise us with something more creative. Interesting list vsophi made there.
Hahaha, second panel Joshua is staring right through the fourth wall at all of us.
Buuuustedd!
Joshua’s big secret is probably that he’s a liberal.
perhaps it’s because I’m Canadian, that phrase doesn’t register much “OMG!” value with me. Despite my parents being fairly religious, their politics were left wing.
Joshua has big secret allright – just not for Ethan!
Also, we now have proof that Joshua’s gaydar is likely the most effective in the family, since Joyce didn’t know Ethan was until he told her, and her parents don’t seem to have picked up on it.
Also, after somebody pointed out that Joshua being gay was way too obvious in the comments for the previous strip, I would have been more surprised if he’d turned out to be gay.
Well, regarding possible plot twists, you are all aware that
a) David Willis reads the comments
b) Jeph Jacques links to “Dumbing of Age” under a different name.
He can just play this like reverse cheated Battleships, placing his bombs wherever there is place between the multitude of ships.
I read the comments on strips I finished nine weeks ago.
But the shipyards have been around for longer than nine weeks. Bouncing bombs took much longer to develop than the actual attacks lasted.
Come on people, seriously? Willis even posts sneak peeks of newer strips on tumblr, what else should he do to convince you that comments are irrelevant to current storylines?
*future strips
You know, he could be bisexual. 😛
Maybe he’s a sperm donor. I doubt his parents would be very happy to learn that.
David Willis set you all up. He gave you the materials you needed to build your ships just so he can sink it. You’ve been had, shippers. Gloriously, gloriously had.
All praise Willis.
Can a story have millihelens? Oh, for those unaccustomed to the unit: a millihelen is the amount of beauty required to launch one ship.
Thank you for this. I’ve needed this word all my life, though I didn’t know it.
What is the millihelen from? It sounds familiar but I can’t place it. (I want to say Uglies series though…)
I still think Joshua may be gay or bi- he and Ethan really did seem to have chemistry when they met- but that he’s steering way clear out of concern for Joyce.
But we will see!
I can now declare this the biggest shipwreck since Luke/Leia.
Luke/Leia is not a shipwreck. It’s simply a lot of people jumped out from the ship because “ew ew gross gross!” and only a few people stay aboard….
If the amount of Star Wars incest porn I unfortunately keep on stumbling across is any indication its more than a few.
Not saying that I approve of it (the Star Wars porn, that is), but there was a fair amount of time that passed between Luke first seeing her hologram in Episode IV and when he first learns of his sister in Episode V — so there was ample opportunity for such hanky-panky while the two were still blithely ignorant of their relationship.
Why does everyone ignore the fact he could still be bi. Bi people exist you know…
I really feel for Ethan in this one; his experience is much like my own (except he’s having a slightly easier ride). College is a confusing time, especially if you’ve been brought up in a ‘gay = evil’ culture. Consequently, my response to Joshua’s question would have been (and often was) deny, deny, deny. I’m much happier in my own skin now.
My way of denying my homosexuality was thinking that I was bisexual, but once I stopped lying to myself, I did feel much better in general. But coming out to other people IRL is still nearly impossible, except my mom (with which I’m very close),