April’s two bonus strips for the Dumbing of Age Patreon feature Marcie and Malaya! Marcie won the vote for the first strip, and with Marcie you’re bound to get some Malaya. And the two strips may have something to do with the NSFW-coded ad banner on the far left, probably, definitely.
Patreon pledges of any amount get to see all the bonus strips, and those who pledge $5 or more per month get to see tomorrow’s strip early every day!
Loading ...
why even bother, it’d be easier to show Look Around You
or, idk, Veggietales
Vegitales promotes the idea of talking vegetables. And how could vegetables learn how to talk except Evil-loution?
VeggieTales was super religious though, in a kinda pompous and often over the top preachy way. Not to mention the songs were irritating…
— A nanny who watched kids that loved that show so hard
i didn’t really find the songs annoying until Veggietales SOLD OUT TO THE MAN aka NBC and then had a lot of their content replaced with soulless corporate dreck
although to be fair NBC asking them to include more women and then them giving us Petunia Rhubarb in all of her blandness was really….on them
I always hated that show. Saw it at some Easter gathering or something when I was six and just…. No. Yet everyone I’ve every known in my area claims it’s the best thing in the history of ever. I’ll take an actual decent book or Reading Rainbow over that any day.
I liked a collection of songs from it, when I was a kid with no taste. As soon as I encountered a whole episode my attitude shifted towards open contempt.
honestly given the variety of christian shows out there it was a vastly better option than a lot of others. the songs were clever and singable!! they made references to monty python, which as everyone knows is the very zeitgeist of pop culture. idk. it was kinda formational humor-wise for me.
but like if you only saw it once when you were six that’s fine, it was probably a crappy episode or something lmao
Look Around You is brilliant though.
Thanks, Ants!
Thants.
Remember to set your calculator to Maths
The largest number is around 45 billion, though scientist suspect the existence of even larger numbers.
Leslie’s is a house of pain.
…jump around
Leslie, Leslie, Leslie: Always listen to Leia.
Call Robin a scoundrel. That’ll show her.
Please no. She in no way deserves to be compared to that relationship.
Judging from those muffins she could probably go with recognizing the foul stench though.
Charming to the last. You don’t know how hard I found it, signing the order to terminate your life.
You have to use the pseudo-British accent for full effect.
Except in relationship advice, because the early Han-Leia scenes are creepy af given how that thread develops.
Well, true, but Luke and Leia weren’t written in as siblings until later (otherwise, Splinter in the Mind’s Eye – which Tobey Faire was non-canon once ESB came out – would have been even more awkward today than it actually is).
In any case, the Tsundere was strong in that one, definitely. It was meant even in ANH that there was some chemistry between them, because as I understand it, the original idea was for there to be a love-triangle and a lot of UST between Leia and Han.
at least leslie isnt trying to be anakin
Leslie doesn’t like Robin. She’s coarse and rough and irritating and she gets everywhere.
sHIT
Fffffffuuuuuuuuu–
Gonna be honest. I laughed far too hard at that comment.
Does Robin think she’s Darth Vader or something?
yuh
Robin: “Luke? He was my favorite captain on Star Trek!”
That will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back and drives Leslie to violence.
Luc was the guy that sided with the Cylons in the Battle of Hogwarts, right?
“Flowers! Is there a John Luck Pickerd here?”
Luc is/was Isam.
“Yeah, and I always liked the Aluminum Falcon; Ham and Worf could take that ship anywhere!”
Actually, that’s Palpatine’s line.
i thought it was voldemort the many colored’s line?
I’m now imagining Voldemort with rainbow skin. Thanks for that.
to add on, the hug scene
…and I’m imagining Voldemort in Joseph’s coat of many colors, singing “Any Dream Will Do.” Thanks for that also.
Robin really understands politics. I’ll give her credit for that.
Aw, Joyce 🙁
If Hank was behind that decision that might knock him right out of the “best dad” rankings
Frankly, I’m impressed Mama Brown was cool with that.
“Allowing her to watch the trade embargoes? Do you want her to grow up to be a communist?”
“Carol, she at least needs to have watched some part of Star Wars, and nothing else is meeting the criteria you set forward.”
“Well Hank, maybe we just shouldn’t-”
“That’s it I’m putting my foot down Carol. She gets to watch parts of the prequels in order to not be completely socially stunted and that is that.”
it was prolly to bore her into not being interested in the rest
im calling it as being Mama Brown’s decision and one of those things Hank wasn’t mainstream enough to really fight that battle
idk, The Matrix probably would have been encouraged because it was all about seeing through the reality around you and Neo is a vague Christ analogue. but Star Wars?? too much “feeling” and “emotions”, too vaguely Eastern despite no Asian peoples showing up in the franchise until Rogue One, too much about trusting your gut and making gray decisions.
idk for whoever it was that made that decision, it seems to have been mostly about politics, and that’s Mrs. B to a tee
The religious angle gets even weirder if you look at the English subtitles from Chinese bootlegs of the prequels (i.e. the infamous ‘Backstroke of the West’ subtitles). ‘Jedi Council’ was translated as the Chinese words for ‘Presbyterian Church’.
DO NOT WANT
omg
that’s hysterical
Leslie, might I suggest a baseball bat to deal with your intruder issue?
might have a dent in it from the last time it was used
Choke her out, Jabba-style. Gold bikini optional.
To be fair, that’s exactly what she was doing.
Even if she was fully intending to let her crash on her couch too.
But it is an effective tactic because it’s hard to dismiss someone who’s standing in front of you.
Or… Hard”er”.
And yet, look at Robin here DOING EXACTLY THAT.
Leslie offering Becky the couch came before her idea to try and bring her to see Robin too. Leslie was using Becky, but Becky was never just a prop for her. Becky was a person. Robin still doesn’t think of either of them as people.
Exactly. She asked Becky if she wanted to do this first. And her compliance had nothing to do with getting a place to stay at.
That much is true. Becky hasn’t even accepted the offer – though she likely will. (Farther from Joyce and Dina though. )
But yes, Leslie first offered, then thought of using Becky against Robin, but it was using Becky that turned it from “if you need it” to “can you come now”. And Becky from someone she could help into a prop.
To be fair it was becky’s idea to “go right now”.
That explains way too much.
so joyce didnt miss anything important then
I know one (like literally my opposite in personality) aunt who uses a couch as her office. Disproven, leslie! 😛
And why do I feel like Joyce is telling another irl story?
Couldn’t be. Willis is too old. Also alt-text.
Since the only thing I can use to read DoA comics shortly after they come out is my 3DS, since I’m not close to my computer by 10pm and I don’t have a phone, I usually am not able to read the alt-text until tomorrow. Hence, I was worried something like this would happen. <.<
(and did they seriously know what eastern religion was or was it just "something distant and eeeeevil"?)
Don’t know about a DS, but on mobile tapping either side of the navigation buttons brings up the alt text, tapping on the alt text area makes it go away.
And to be fair, there’s definitely “Eastern religion” influences in Star Wars, used as inspiration. The Force is heavily based off Taoism with magic. The Jedi order took inspiration from Buddhism and European medieval knights’ codes of conduct (okay, that bit isn’t eastern or religion.) I’ve also read that another ancient religion from Persia- with very few remaining active practitioners- has similarities but I suspect that wasn’t intentional in the writing (although I could be wrong).
So… yeah! As pop culture goes, Star Wars sort of DOES promote so-called “eastern religion”!
She wasn’t saying couches can’t be offices, but more specifically, that her couch is not Robin’s office because Robin is an intruder that won’t go away not a houseguest or a resident.
Ah, true! I wish I thought of that earlier, but I’ve been lacking bright moments today. ¢-¢
marcie looks to be in trouble in that preview. i know that life drawing models aren’t allowed to get aroused, and she will be hyper-aware of malaya’s gaze. not sure how they enforce that rule for females…just sayin’
That’d be rather hard to enforce for most folks with vaginas anyways.
“Hey! I see that puddle,young lady. Stop that.”
What surprises me is that Malaya is apparently an art student.
Maybe just taking an art class. Her major has to be something really misanthropic.
It’s just an elective.
So she’s getting her Bachelor’s in Misanthropology>
Forensic science maybe? I’m pretty sure his time in the crime lab is where my dad got his misanthropy.
Bachelor in Misanthopology – You can do that?
As a fine arts major, I can say that classes were HELLA competitive to get into at my university (waitlists double the size of the class) and thus were restricted to majors only. Maybe the school has money to spare for a non-majors class? Doubtful, though. When schools have money to spare, they spend it on sports.
You’re a fine arts major? That’s cool. I once had a dream of attending the California Institute of the Arts.
The class sizes seem large-ish as IU, so probably not as competitive. Also, separate sections!
how is that, uh, enforced
like, is the model escorted out or do they just throw a water bucket
barred by the union from getting work
Gee, Robin. I’m not sure this is quite the same thing as your version of people props. Leslie isn’t trying to get people to vote for her; she’s trying to expand your moral sensitivity.
No, not for the same reason, but the same tactics.
And honestly, politicians kind of need to build an immunity to this approach, even if they’re well-intentioned to start with. It’s always possible to drag in someone who’s going to be hurt by any policy, no matter how much good it does.
It really isn’t the same, imo.
Firstly, Leslie’s very first response was “how can I help you.”
Secondly, this not being the same circumstance really matters. It’s not “hey, this person backs up my intent so vote for me!” It’s only partly about trying to show Robin that she has the potential to really, genuinely ruin lives.
I feel that a lot of people have lost sight of the fact that Robin has broken into Leslie’s house twice. She refuses to leave. She has been PHYSICALLY EJECTED and just broke back in. And she’s a politician with all the power that comes with. Leslie has no power in this situation, even over HER OWN HOME. That’s so important. Her own place, her safe space has been invaded, and her options either don’t work or are likely to backfire.
Leslie is probably desperate, and she has every right to be. That is horrifying. And, again, in my opinion, that difference IS important. The difference between political power and having her home invaded are incomparable, and the tools that are acceptable are just as incomparable.
Just my sleepy rambles thoughts.
I mean, even Leia shooting stormies in the head was a waste of time if you think about it, they’d all have been dead if Lando and Wedge hadn’t taken out the Death Star.
Point being, Lando and Wedge don’t get enough credit.
Lando and Wedge don’t knock out the Death Star without Leia’s party knocking out the shield generators.
This is why you need women and POC in your resistances, they get shit done.
And tiny bear creatures to keep the stormtroopers off their back. Honestly that whole climax was kind of a group effort. Everyone got to do something.
Except Luke, who was utterly superfluous.
No Luke, Death Star goes kablooey, Emperor and Vader both die.
No Leia and…..well, tbh, Luke dies fighting Vader because he doesn’t go rage mode, but even if he doesn’t die, the Death Star gets completed and a LOTTA planets go kablooey, killing trillions.
The problem is the Emperor had a shuttle RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO THE THRONE ROOM. Because Palpatine, unlike Tarkin, is prepared for things going to hell. We saw it when Amidala escaped the Trade Federation. The moment the shield went down, he would have rabbited for the door. I mean, Luke made it off didn’t he?
Yeah, and then he landed on Endor. So that means the Emperor is going to be stuck on Endor, because every Imperial Ship was either destroyed (looking at Vader’s flagship) or apparently decided “Screw it, I’m out!” as soon as the Death Star blew up. Meaning Vader and Palpatine are being hunted by the entire Rebellion, including Luke, cut off from all reinforcements and contact with the Empire, already presumed dead by said Empire. And to top it all off they have an entire forest moon full of hungry Ewoks hunting them (remember, they were all going to be eaten until Luke made C-3PO levitate in the chair). Very, very bad odds.
It’s still on my to-read list, but from what I’ve heard, a major part of the new-canon novel Lords of the Sith deals with Vader and Palpatine being stranded on Ryloth with a rebel cell on their tail.
It doesn’t end well for the rebels.
Not that hard for a first-class pilot like Vader to pretend to be debris from the Death Star, put down several thousand miles away from the shield generator site, and wait for….
…. wait, what’s that? No world in the Star Wars ‘verse is actually bigger than two settlements and five or so additional sets?
…… huh. Frankly, this raises more questions than it answers.
Your point might’ve had merit, were the shuttle not equipped with a hyperdrive. I doubt they would’ve been limited to Rebel-held territories to set down in.
The shuttle Luke is shown leaving in departs from the Death Star’s equatorial trench (where all the hangar bays are located), while the Emperor’s throne room was in a tower near the Death Star’s “pole” if I recall correctly.
Still, the point is how quickly the Emperor could evacuate, and the answer is probably “faster than Luke could carry Vader and then inexplicably have his dying scene on the exploding space station rather than a non-exploding shuttle flying away from the exploding space station that a bunch of stormtroopers could easily have stolen to escape and left Luke behind while he was idiotically giving his dad a death scene in the wrong place.”
…… wait a moment. Shouldn’t Luke have been force-levitating Vader? It would probably have been faster, more dignified, and less painful than carrying.
…. also, why DIDN’T any other imperials evacuate using that shuttle? Luke gave them plenty of time!
@Reltzik, see this could very well mean that Vader and Palpatine were the only ones who knew about the shuttle in the first place. Which means even if the Emperor had survived, odds are no one in the Empire would have known about it and the senior surviving officers taken command.
We see a bunch of stormtroopers and Imperial officers running past in the background of the hangar where the shuttle is, so they at least would have known about it as well.
He really wasn’t. He thought the empire was WINNING. He has no reason to flee if they’re winning.
weeelp he was a pretty big distraction for the two Sith Lords in the area, so that’s not exactly nothing, i’d say
Alas, most of them got killed at Scarif, so it was just white dudes at Yavin… and then most of them died, so it took years to rebuild the starfighter corps. Just in time for Endor.
The sole surviving Y-Wing (which you see flying away with Luke just before the Death Star explodes) at the Battle of Yavin was piloted by a woman, for what it’s worth.
More evidence Joyce’s parents are evil. They only let her watch parts of the prequels.
On the other hand, they spared her the sand scene.
its not complete without the sand scene!
“Saaaaand stooooorrrm! Saaaaaaaaand stooooorrrm!”
“Wrong movie, Frank.”
ive been watching mst3k so much
It is physically impossible to watch mst3K too much.
They probably hate sand.
its rough, and coarse, and gets everywhere
It is coarse and rough, and it certainly gets everywhere…
was mustafar covered in sand and lava?
The old Revenge of the Sith novelization by Matt Stover (which is totally awesome, by the way) describes the slope upon which Vader catches fire as being made of “black glass sand”, so . . . yep.
anakin’s story pre-vader begins and ends with sand
That explains how Revenge of the Sith was so dark and gritty.
…..
*flees for dear prequel-punning life*
I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you to sand down with those puns.
Puns?
…. oh, there’s one.
SAND-BLAST ‘IM!
@ emperor daniel: im gonna ask you to tone down the rough and coarse behavior
That’s a soft and smooth way of putting things.
That’s because it’s coarse and rough. And it get’s everywhere ~_~
ok, but it probably included jar jar binks
NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
look into your heart. you know it to be true.
I was going more for a more end of Episode III Vader “No!”, but I’ll play along. That’s impossible!
oh god. i love star wars but i really can’t tell one no apart from another, lmaaorukduk, you can destroy this empire of people who have never watched star wars. together, we can rule the <strike)galaxy tri-state area and ensure every child is properly educated in star wars!! all we have to do is make star wars viewings mandatory for graduating elementary school!
Evict her. Evict her. Call the cops, say she’s trespassing in your residence and have her escorted out of your home. Seriously, you can do it, and it’d be the best thing for everyone in this situation!
That’s a very dangerous option given that Robin is a sitting US representative and thus has way more political reach and thus likely to get the softest kid’s glove treatment possible while Leslie gets a nasty backlash for trying to make the report that could end up running her out of town.
It might be the only non-violent option left to her, but I understand her hesitation for pulling that switch.
the other option is tossing robin out like jazz, but thatll last like 5 seconds
She did that one, though. She can try locking all the windows and doors first before trying again, but that’s probably a recipe for a broken window.
it would give leslie reason to call the police though
She already has one. Robin is on her property and refuses to leave, that’s grounds.
This. And yeah, that’s a really dangerous move so I definitely understand Leslie trying to wait until the last possible option to make it as it could so easily go bad for her.
Plus, as a former homeless girl and knowing the antagonism and harassment from cops she faced for that, I can definitely feel her wanting to avoid that awful triggering encounter if there is any way to.
It’s kind of like… hmm, how to explain it. Like how a lot of POC and trans people avoid calling cops unless it’s a genuine life-threatening emergency, because otherwise you can easily end up getting shot by the folks coming to “help” you.
You have to consider all the options before taking that risk a lot of times, which is why most of the horrible things that have happened to me have gone unreported to the cops, cause I saw how they treated the things I did report.
Also, I think Leslie’s still trying to get through to Robin.
…. okay, not really, not saying that right. But she started out trying to get through to Robin, and I think she’s still mentally locked into options that correspond to that original intent.
I think so too. And it’s easy to get locked into that with an abuser. Hoping that a different approach will reach through while they continue to mistreat you.
“But I can FIX them!!!”
*sigh* I’d call it ludicrous, but I’ve been in that trap…
Seriously, Cerberus, I’m so glad you’re saying this stuff. I think it’s so important for people to remember the really difficult place Leslie’s ended up in in this situation. It feels like people are being incredibly critical of her right now instead of viewing her with empathy and understanding how stressed and stuck- and probably threatened- she must feel right now.
Thing is Leslie is a white cis lady, and Robin is a senator. And they’re surrounded by news crews. There’s NO REASON for them to have any fear of the police in this situation.
Power Stranger-
Indeed, she is white and cis, which provide certain protections and I doubt she’s worried that she’ll be killed, but she’s also been homeless which comes with learning a lot of mistrust for cops as a lot of cops like to harass street folk.
And she’s also making a complaint against a US Representative. Like, that’s a big dangerous thing and horrible stuff have happened to folks who made complaints against the family members of politicians even if they are cis white girls. Many of those complaining even if they win frequently have to leave town afterwards because of harassment by cops and city workers.
So yeah, that’s a big last ditch effort to pull as it’s very likely to go bad for her in the cops turning on her and heavily discouraging her out of wasting their time direction.
I’ve said before that the other option is to invite the media frenzy in for interviews.
…. it’s not a GOOD option, but Leslie’s lost her privacy anyway.
…. though now that I think about it, Robin could probably spin the whole thing to ten different places of awful simultaneously.
…. still, it’s a better option than waiting for the Secret Service to raid the house and “rescue” the Congressperson from her “kidnapper” before her “Stockholm Syndrome” gets worse. (Robin’s staff probably knows a thing or two about spin as well.)
Or this time, when you throw her out the door, throw her straight to the media wolves. Then lock all the doors and windows during the feeding frenzy.
At least then, if Robin does break a window to get back in, she’ll be doing it live on camera. Evidence!
^Literally this.
There is also a fair chance that even if nothing negative happens that the officers may do absolutely nothing either by deeming it as something that doesn’t require officer interference or because Robin is able to convince them that it was overblown with her calm demeanor. Even if Leslie is frantic.
The press are standing outside. Take her to the front door, say loudly, “Thanks for visiting; it’s time for you to go home now” and push her into the arms of the press.
You think the cops would be on Leslie’s side.
Well, Leslie is white so she’s got that going for her at least. But she’s a woman (okay they both are so no negative points there), a lesbian, less affluent than the person she’s making the complaint against, and less politically powerful than the person she’s making the complaint against.
They’re unlikely to be on her side.
They might help her out grudgingly but that’s not a list of qualities of people they tend to side with.
Yeah, but Robin just lost all her political capital and is widely believed to be a lesbian.
Has Leslie been homeless, too? That could well make her distrust/avoid police for a long, long time.
If I recall correctly, she was either homeless or damned close to. I might be misremembering, but that would explain a lot.
With calling the police, it’s a big question of trust.
People who haven’t had many encounters with police and whose friends and families had few such encounters… or who had those encounters from positions of either privilege or sympathy… tend to trust police by default.
As a formerly-homeless woman who is also very gay in a very red state, Leslie likely has plenty of history (including things that happened to friends rather than to her specifically) inclining her not to trust the police.
…. also, calling the cops would kinda out Robin, and I don’t think Leslie is ready to do outing.
Re: “…calling the cops would kinda out Robin, and I don’t think Leslie is ready to do outing.”
But, Robin’s already been outed; That Photo(R) has been making the rounds all morning (all day? I forget that bit of the timeline, really). Leslie’s well aware of that, due to both the comments from her co-workers and the horde of reporters outside her door…
(Your other points stand, though!)
look at it this way. police are people with guns. people with guns are scary. do you always want to invite people with guns to come into your home and handle a situation? no, in a lot of cases not. and there are enough cases of police misusing their various powers to be wary of them.
like. i realize that we get taught that the police are the people we go to in case of an emergency, but a lot of the time police are people continually in high stress situations who have to make snap decisions and aren’t really given the time or education to work through their biases. that sort of unconscious, unlimited trust can be really dangerous, because imo no one should be given that kind of power over somebody else! but also especially because the police are supposed to come in and settle a thing, and among the things they don’t get sometimes is conflict de-escalation training.
so basically what i’m saying here is that police are human, and don’t in general really have enough of a successful conflict de-escalation rate to be useful to Leslie here. not to mention how scary it can be to have them come into your home, especially if you have a relationship of deep mistrust. Leslie’s been homeless. she may very likely have that kind of a relationship with the police.
imo another option might be to have a professional mediator come in and try to talk Robin out, but i’m not sure whether or not that’s something they do. they mostly handle, like, family conflicts and divorce relations and things like that.
The cops are literally right outside her door right now, even.
Final panel: Yeah, I think it’s time to follow Leia’s example over Luke’s. Also, Joyce you poor, poor child. You and Becky have to be shown the good Star Wars movies. You must watch them. You must realize what culture defining cinema really looks like. Throw in the Lord of the Rings movies while you’re at it.
……….i feel like Lord of the Rings isn’t unChristian enough for Mrs. Brown, but i’ve searched my heart and it feels right. i know it to be true. i vaguely remember it being magic and therefore ungodly – also written by a Catholic.
at least they have chronicles of narnia?? i guess?
But you could totally spin it as Gandalf being a (albeit older) Jesus stand in, leading the few righteous (and white) people against the vast heathen (and non-white or white but not acting white and thus not white) hordes of hell in the final battle. I mean if you wanted to you could even claim that Sauron represents the papacy or something like that. What gets in the way of a Protestant fundamentalist in America from making that narrative?
…
Is it Treebeard and the Ents? It’s Treebeard and the Ents isn’t it?
honestly I feel like what I heard was that the magic was objectionable. so…i guess…special effects????
idk LOTR is about as Christian as it gets, i really…dont get it. and i wasn’t allowed to read Harry Potter!
Gandalf’s more of an angel standin than a Jesus standin, but yeah, still pretty Christian.
i’ve heard an interpretation where Aragorn, Frodo and Gandalf all represent different sides of Jesus which is…pretty legit I can roll with that. like Aragorn’s the conquering king of peace, Frodo’s the suffering savior, and Gandalf’s the resurrected deity (kinda?). but i mean the themes are so christian-centric that it doesn’t even have to physically be there in order to work
….. wait, you mean that the singular deity of a pointedly monotheistic religion like Christianity would somehow actually be THREE divine figures? And STILL be monotheistic?
….. how…. how is that… I can’t even…
……..it sure doesn’t sound like some kind of trinity now does it
Is this the point where we all do the “Eh!” faces at each other?
Or at the fourth wall.
where’s the fourth wall -bumps into it- ow. hey. what’s this wall doing here
Tolkien was always adamant that his mythology had no intentional allegorical Christian themes, though to anyone who’s read the Silmarillion, it’s obvious there’s a lot of it *cough*Eru*cough*. Similarly to anyone who’s read the Silmarillion, it’s obvious there is just as much pagan mythology, for instance how while Melkor’s relationship with Eru is clearly inspired by God and Lucifer, the relationships of the Valar between each other and how they interact are practically saturated with old germanic customs and rethoric. As for the characters themselves, I don’t believe any of them are meant to represent any particular figure from Christian mythology. That was more C.S Lewis’ thing. The Christian themes in Tolkien’s works are usually shown through theme, not characters, like anytime greed or mercy or humility come into play.
That’s because Tolkien was a prescriptivist (in this case at least) and insisted on a very specific definition of allegory that his works do not fit. He ignored how the word was actually used at the time, and it’s only gotten looser in modern times.
By his definition, Lewis’s more blatant allegory in the Narnia series was also not an allegory. Only stuff like Pilgrim’s Progress, which had a 1 to 1 mapping between the story and the symbolism. Or something like that. I never did quite understand his definition.
Point is, by modern definitions, LoTR is a somewhat loose allegory to Christian myth. The Christ allegory in Gandalf is rather obvious, for example. Frodo’s journey fits a looser version of Christian’s journey in Pilgrim’s Progress. It’s still in there.
And Eru Iluvatar is very clearly the Christian God as Tolkien perceived him. And his take on Christianity is embedded very deeply in all his work–more than just happens because you are a Christian author.
well i mean just because it’s not allegorical doesn’t mean it’s not parallel, or thematic. like, have themes of self-sacrifice and original sin in a narrative from a western culture, and parallels to Christianity are bound to come up, simply because it’s the religious background for that culture.
it’s not always a 1:1 deal, like with Beren and Luthien where they’re clearly metatextually meant to represent Tolkien and his wife. sometimes it’s more of a loose “this is to this as this is to this” kind of analysis. and either way looking at it through a Christian lens brings some of the moral issues into deeper focus, i think, especially with the temptation provoked by the Ring and the question of Gollum and Galadriel’s whole thing about choosing to diminish and go into the west to remain herself. like i would argue that Frodo’s constant suffering is very Catholic.
in much the same way, while direct parallels to the World Wars Tolkien experienced and wrote during is out of bounds, the narrative of trauma and recovery and inglorious war is very much a product of his time. Go from T.S. Eliot’s The Wasteland to Tolkien’s Dead Marshes, and this motif of the dead, gone but not passed, lingering in mysteries and lives we don’t understand – it’s a different form, a different statement, but a similar reaction to an unburiable number of dead bodies. and so talking about the atmosphere created by two world wars is never going to be irrelevant when talking about Tolkien’s work, I think.
There’s that one shot in the first trailer for Jackson’s Hobbit, with Galadriel brushing back Gandalf’s hair, that I’ve always interpreted (loosely) as:
“Mithrandir, you look wrecked. You do remember that when you’re down here with us, you need to eat and sleep? Occasionally?”
Well he and Radagast (and according to the books Saruman) all developed a fondness for Shire-grown pipe-weed, so they should have always had the munchies. Point being, the Istari really like pot.
Saruman liked pipeweed in the movies, too. Remember after the Ents flooded Isengard, Merry and Pippin found crates of it in their storehouse?
I know it’s a common joke/theory, but pipeweed really is just tobacco, not pot.
Tolkien did specify that it was a relative of the modern tobacco plant, but for all we know Hobbit pipeweed did have similiar properties to marijuana. Because how aren’t the hobbits constantly getting into drunken brawls? And how do they eat so much? The hobbits being incredibly relaxed and chill while also having the munchies because they’re high on pot all the time just kinda makes a little sense when you think about it.
Robin’s become a straight up Villain at this point. Not that she wasn’t before but the “we’re not so different, you and I” speech just solidifies it.
The real question is… did Leslie own a “Gaypron” apron before now?
Also lolz gay pr0n
re:Alt Text. Eastern religions? As in Buddhism and such?
It’s more Taosim than Buddhism, but yeah.
It’s not very much of either – there’s a dim resemblance to Taoism, and an imitation of about one Buddhist precept.
Hmm. Gonna probably start a chain of anger but.
1. Luke did manage to turn Vader to his way of thinking and Vader himself killed the Emperor. It’s kind of a bad metaphor consider Luke managed to succeed at it.
2. I guess recent rhetoric has made me mildly uncomfortable with the glorification of murdering or hurting people who deserve it. I mean violence is often wished upon people and can be justified but it do get nervous of the slippery slope of that mentality.
3. I almost can’t disagree with Robin. The way Leslie is using Becky is somewhat “prop-ish” to sort of prove her point. Wrong things for right reasons and such.
4.Leslie should probably like…call the police or something. I think Robin is literally breaking the law.
But isn’t that why she’s apologising to Luke. She feels like she hasn’t succeeded in igniting some spark of good in Robin.
She’s apologizing by telling him “like you I wasted everyone’s time”.
Somewhat of a backhanded apology. Like saying “I’m so sorry neither of us managed to succeed. I apologize that we both suck”
Luke sucks=Jedi suck=No more Jedi. Yotomoe I think you just discovered the plot of Star Wars: The Last Jedi!
It doesn’t MATTER Luke turned Vader though. The Death Star was about to be destroyed, which would kill them both anyways. Vader turning is purely a moral victory, not a thing that really mattered wrt whether the battle would be won.
That doesn’t mean Luke was unsuccessful.
Also it’s not like Luke had much of a choice. From what I recall he was BROUGHT there and managed to keep Darth Vader busy enough AND keep his focus long enough to not only turn him to his side, but also have enough time for the Millenium Falcon to blow up the death star.
If I difuse a bomb, and then a group of firemen rush in and get everyone out of the building, that doesn’t mean I DIDN’T just disarm that bomb.
I was successful and my actions probably helped more than they hindered.
Vader and Palpatine weren’t going anywhere though – they thought they were going to win. This is more like Luke stopped a burning pot when the firefighters are putting out the fire. It’s not a BAD thing, but ultimately not going to change the outcome. Without Luke, they still win the battle. Turning Vader is like a nice bonus – “Oh, hey, sweet” but not ultimately a success that really mattered to whether or not the fight was won.
They blew up one Death Star. I have no idea why Palpatine wouldn’t assume they couldn’t blow up that one as well. Considering the almost INSANE amount of forsight he has I doubt he didn’t have some sort of plan to bail.
Palpatine foresaw the Empire WINNING that battle. His foresight isn’t that great. As far as he knew, they had no reason to leave because who cares if the generators go, the Empire’s gonna win.
My take is that the point wasn’t to save Vader. The point was to save LUKE. He’d already started down the path to the Dark Side back in Empire, and he practically worshiped his dead hero father up until Vader revealed that at the end of Empire. Luke would not be at peace, the peace required to be a master of the Light Side, until he had resolved this conflict within himself.
… and raging out and killing Vader with everything still unresolved wouldn’t have done the trick.
Huh, the comments section ate my fake tag.
That should have read “Vader revealed that [snipped for spoilers] at the end of Empire.”
@Reltzik I don’t think I want the type of peace the light side offers. (Unspoken love leads to fear)Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
There is no emotion. There is peace.
Sure, it was good for Luke and pretty good for Vader. That doesn’t mean it was actually consequential to whether the Rebels won the battle.
You could argue that without Luke distracting Vader he would’ve been down on the moon since it was a trap anyway and that battle would’ve turned out differently. I don’t actually know how much merit there is in that theory though. I haven’t seen Star Wars: RotJ in a while.
But…that would have left Luke distracting Vader on Endor instead of above Endor. And even if the Emperor bails on the Death Star, the entire Imperial Fleet evacuated from Endor without checking to see if the Emperor had made it off Death Star 2.0 on his shuttle in the original movie. Meaning they won’t check in the scenario where Luke has Vader pinned on Endor. And then the Emperor has nowhere to go but Endor, unless Imperial Shutlles are capable of making a hyperspace jump.
Imperial shuttles are certainly capable of making a hyperspace jump – it’s how the infiltration team got to Endor in the first place, remember?
Oh shit you’re right. Then again, what’s to have stopped the Imperial military to have declared the Emperor KIA and taken power in a Valkyrie-style coup? What random civilian is going to believe the crazy old man who’s claiming to be the dead emperor? And once he starts zapping people for making him impatient, how long until he has to go underground and start over from scratch?
He’s frigging Palpatine. THATS what’s going to stop the Imperial military. Even disregarding the EU, wherein Palpy has huge amounts of pretty nonsense Force abilities to screw with people’s heads, he could trivially seize control back though any number of different means. The most obvious, of course, is murdering anybody stupid enough not to knuckle over when he’s back sitting on his throne on Coruscant. :p
Yeah, like Foamy says. He’s a Sith Lord.
You’re treating him like he’s just some normal guy who happens to be in charge. He’s a power himself, independent of his fleets and armies.
@foamy and thejeff Yeah, he’s a Sith Lord. But he’s a Sith Lord without a power base in this scenario, and a Sith without a power base has to operate from the shadows or be destroyed ala the Jedi Order. He honestly got damn lucky in that no one like, say, Tarkin got the idea of just blowing the Emperor’s shuttle up with a Star Destroyer.
He’s also the Emperor of the Galaxy. He doesn’t need to operate in the shadows because he is the actual ruler. Vader was going around choking high Imperial officials to death at a whim and nobody gave a damn, to boot; you think the Emperor is going to get extended less slack?
As for assassinating Palpatine via blasting his shuttle, good luck. You’re gonna need it.
Again, Palpatine had a shuttle. He would have left the moment the shield went down. Why do you think he had an emergency shuttle prepared? Because he’s the Man. You don’t get to be DARTH without knowing when it’s time to rabbit.
🙂
Except his entire surviving fleet abandoned him. They don’t even stop in the original movie to check if he’s still alive. Which can only mean one of two things; either the Emperor is an idiot who didn’t inform anyone else that he had an emergency shuttle just in case or the surviving Imperial officers saw an opportunity to take power claiming the Emperor had died on the Death Star ala Valkyrie. Either way, this is bad for the Emperor in the scenario that he does survive. And even if he maintains his power post Endor what does he have? A semi-feudal (he disbanded the Senate and by extension the entire legislature of his government) space empire without a planet killing super weapon to keep the sector governors in line and an Imperial fleet in tatters. Not only that, but it’s an Empire that has been defeated decisively, twice in three years. The Rebels have more or less won anyways. Sectors are going to turn rebel at an alarming rate, meaning even less resources for the Empire. Other sectors are just going to become break away independent states, like the Hutts. Without a Death Star equivalent, the Emperor is screwed.
the main evil jedi in one of the original thrawn trilogy novels proposed that the emperor was using his force powers to low-level buff/influence the minds of all his fleet officers, and the buff withdrawing when he died is why the fleet fell apart so quickly (star destroyer ramming the death star, anybody?)
of course, it’s not like any of that was intended/referenced in the movie itself, so
Not to object to you writing alternate history for a fictitious universe, but you know, the actual Valkyrie coup didn’t go well after it turned out Hitler was alive.
And that happened because only one of the bombs went off and meeting was moved from Hitler’s bunker. If the second bomb had gone off and the meeting had been in the bunker…well someone like Goering would have taken over because the IRL Valkyrie conspirators didn’t have the support of an active duty field marshal (Rommel knew about it and didn’t blow the whistle on it but also believed it wouldn’t work in the longterm) to actually back them up if the SS had tried a counter-coup.
…. but Maul got to be Darth before-
*gets shot first for mentioning prequels*
…. but…. the prequels weren’t shot first. They were shot AFTER the ori-
*gets shot again*
There are four things that are good about the prequels and those are: Ewan McGregor, Qui-Gonn Jin, Darth Maul, and Darth Vader’s “Nnnooo!” If you want to include the Khashyyk battle scene then it’s five.
I’d add Order 66 to that list.
Overall they were a decent concept that was terribly executed. Bad directing, stifled actors, awful dialogue… but still some bright points.
um padme amidala’s outfits, shmi skywalker’s actual parenting skills, mace windu’s purple lightsaber(!!), the acrobatics, the pioneering of special effects, anakin skywalker’s e3 hair, the potential for an ahsoka tano, and padme amidala’s entire existence which is the light of my life and soul except for her fridging of a death, wtf, wtf
Because as far as he foresaw, the Empire was going to win. He had no reason to leave because even if the shields went down, he saw them as winning. Hell, he saw Luke going evil and killing Vader. He thought Vader would sit with his thumb up his ass while he’s frying his son. Palpatine’s foresight kinda sucks at this point and him including a ride on the Death Star (because he’s the Emperor and probably intends to return to Coruscant at some point and the Death Star isn’t built for landing) does not convince me otherwise.
“Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?” But, like the Death Star I before it, repeated.
Pretty much.
I assumed moral victory was the point. Luke’s actions matter to Vader because they allowed him a chance to be redeemed, enough to be a force ghost (though I doubt enough to have earned much legal pardon had he lived). That sort of eternal consequence is the kind of thing Jedi worry about, because only they can, whereas one guy with a light sword and good aim was probably not going to tip that kind of battle.
It doesn’t work well with the prequels, where a kid in a starfighter can take out a whole fleet and the force ghosts are some sort of high level spell. But then nothing does. When did Anakin have time to learn Qui-Gon’s immortality discovery, anyway?
The moral victory is nice, but it didn’t win the battle, which is my point. It mattered to Luke and it mattered to Vader, but it really didn’t matter in the course of whether the Empire won or lost the battle.
Yes, I agree. I wasn’t trying to say otherwise, more of a “wait, do people think Luke was trying to help win the battle?”
Yeah, a lot of people thought he was indispensable for their win, because he turned Vader who killed the Emperor. Who were both doomed as soon as the shields went down.
Was the destruction of the Death Star the only thing that mattered there, or was there an unknotting of a grudge-like distortion of the force that could make future force users less vulnerable to it.
But getting rid of the Sith Lords didn’t undo the knot – both in the EU and the new canon, there are still dark side users around and surviving Jedi. That grudge is still there.
Thank you. The “yeah, hurt people! It’s the only way!” rhetoric I’m seeing everywhere is really starting to freak me out. Things are bad, but advocating violence at this point (in the US) is only escalating things. And pointing to fiction as proof of how to deal with difficult social issues is also terrifying.
Congresswoman Bean does have a certain ring to it.
Unfortunately she’d end up getting called Congresswoman Has Bean by her detractors the minute she was elected.
“no, it’s lesbian”
For a Star Wars fan, Leslie sure has a pretty bad understanding of what Luke was doing on the Death Star
That was explicitly what he was there for. It’s why he let himself be captured.
You’ve got cooking implements of some kind, Les, since you have a range. Get your heaviest cookpot or similar blunt object and clout her about the head until she either leaves or is subdued.
And then spend years in jail for assaulting the Congresswoman.
Wha? Trade embargoes? Was that in Episode 1? I think so but I’m not 100% sure.
it was the first scene in episode 1
Referring to Becky as a “prop” is probably not going to go over well with Joyce, Robin.
I think she’s more calling Leslie out for using her as a Prop, to make her point.
It was also a successful deflection of the reality Leslie put in front of her.
Hey, I’m proud, I called yesterday that Robin is being a Darth Vader Boyfriend (as described in Captain Awkward).
And to re-quote, because I love how Captain Awkward writes it, here is how Robin wants things to go:
“Luke, your dad is totally evil.”
“There’s good in him. I’ve felt it.”
“Luke, he blew up a planet just to make a point.”
“There’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
“Luke, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but he severed your hand. From your arm. He cut it off.”
“Dueling to the death is just how we relate. You wouldn’t understand it. Now that we both have prosthetic robot limbs, it’s only brought us closer together.”
“Luke, he lured your friends into a trap so that he could murder them in front of you. We had to be rescued by Ewoks. It was embarrassing.”
“Yeah, that was pretty bad, I admit! But there’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”
And then Luke is risking his own life to carry Darth Vader out of the Death Star before it explodes so he can look up on that swollen purple face and experience one shining moment of real connection that would justify everything he’s invested in this completely dysfunctional relationship and he’s like “See? IT WAS ALL TOTALLY WORTH IT!” and even R2D2 is like “Whatever, the Ewoks are having a dance party, and I just can’t talk about this with you even one more time. Have fun with your collection of Ghostly Jedi Father Figures.”
https://captainawkward.com/2011/01/17/reader-question-4-my-friend-is-dating-someone-terrible-or-secrets-of-the-darth-vader-boyfriend/
Comic Reactions: … I could write a dissertation on this one… I’ll try and refrain though for all of our sakes.
Panel 1: Okay, let’s dive into the less meaty parts first. First up, this is a really elegant tactic of bullshittery Robin is using here. She’s just heard an ultimatum and an ultimatum it would be really shitty for her to continue trying to push back against. So she just eels away from it, changes the subject, and puts Leslie immediately on the defensive to wrestle power of the conversation away from her.
And doing it in a way that reinforces the notion of compatibility and connection between them so as to further support the forced domesticity she is trying to will into place.
It’s a masterful dismantling of Leslie and is vile as fuck. And given the metaphor later, it reminds me of the fascist fuckwads who try and argue false equivalence with antifa in order to de-emphasize active resistance to fascist recruitment and violence. Knowingly in bad faith, but that doesn’t matter, because the point is to change the conversation and put the other party on the defensive so you can keep doing your awful thing.
Panel 2: Okay, I made an argument that Leslie is slightly using Becky here, but Robin can fuck all the way off with this horse shit. Like, Leslie is a woman in a point of desperation, trying to get her home and life back, and running out of civil options to do so. Her trying to do something for someone in need and also trying to use them with their consent to lay a final ultimatum down against Robin is in no way the same thing as how a typical right-wing politician uses people as props to try and sell a false and harmful narrative.
Like, to begin with, what Leslie states what she wants to do is true. She does need her home back and she does want to give Becky a roof given that she lacks a legal one and she is in fact done with Robin’s shit. These are true statements and using those true statements to try and convince Robin to move on is not a tactic, so much as it is an act of desperation by a good woman trying to do good and quickly running out of spoons and options.
Like yes, Leslie may have “used” Becky in this attempt at ultimatum, but she did it because she genuinely cares about Becky and her well-being and believes what she is saying about Robin needing to leave. That’s not even in the same ballpark as what Robin is talking about, using people she can’t even care about enough to see as more than props to score a cheap political point all for the sake of winning, not for any over-arching goal.
And given the metaphor made explicit later, I can’t help but think of conservatives arguing that liberals are “trying to score political points” when liberals try and center the real people being harmed by conservative policies as if everyone was so monomaniacally focused on “winning” at all costs as they are.
alla this.
it’s scary that the things that apparently make Robin an effective politician are what make her so terrible
Your comments on these train wrecks are one of the few things that keep me able to sit through the Robin strips, Cerby.
Same.
False equivalence to Robin is something no character deserves, least of all freaking Leslie.
Good. I don’t have to say it, and bungle it and everyone misunderstand what I meant.
This is what I’ve been seeing this whole time. Leslie isn’t doing anything wrong here with Becky, who is a willing participant. (She almost fucked up, but then she asked, and Joyce helped make it clear what was going on.)
And Leslie isn’t so much trying to convince Robin (though that would be a bonus) but trying to get rid of her. She was appealing to that sliver of decency Robin showed earlier, hoping that would work instead of having to do things that have a huge chance of backfiring and hurting Leslie (and, by extension, anyone she would help in the future).
(I only disagree that she was wasting everybody’s time, just as I disagree about Luke wasting everyone’s time. Diplomacy isn’t a waste of time. It’s a chance to prevent all out war, and a way to maintain a high ground that allows you to gain more allies. You just have to know when diplomacy has failed.)
I’d say diplomacy had failed by the time Leslie bodily threw Robin out the door and she popped back in through the back like it was a joke. Assuming you don’t conclude it was already toast when she woke up with Robin having broken into her house and snuck into her bed.
And I do think Leslie was and is wrong to bring Becky and Joyce into this. Their consent isn’t what I’d call “fully informed” and it’s not cool for a teacher to be dragging students into her personal problems regardless.
Understandable, given her circumstances, but not a good plan.
Leslie gets to qualify for “Dumbing of Age”, by making her own bad decisions, despite not being a teenage student. 🙂
Also, saying Luke was wasting time was based on the fact that, regardless of whether or not they were there, the Rebels won. the minute they destroyed the shields. Luke or no Luke. It’s not necessarily a waste, but it is irrelevant to the outcome of the battle.
Dammit Robin why do you have to be so fucking terrible? I liked you in the other universe, but I can’t stand you in this one.
Probably because instead of a wacky speedster toystore clerk she’s a wacky fairly blatant stand in for Donald Trump.
Oh yeah and it’s just really fucking creepy and not at all charming to be presented with someone who clearly has no real beliefs or morals of their own. They’ll just go along with whatever that gets them ahead. They may not be actively trying to hurt anyone they just don’t care if someone is hurt. Honestly at this point I don’t know who’s worse her or Mary. Don’t get me wrong Mary’s vile but at least she actually believes in something? Terrible things but idk..idk who’s worse.
I’m sure that Willis thinks that this is innocently funny Wacky Sitcom Roomie Hijinks but it’s just so goddamned tone-deaf. Robin needs to go.
Robin thinks this is wacky hijinks, and she’s trying super hard to have it that way, but I really doubt that Willis agrees with her. If he agreed, he wouldn’t have depicted Leslie so upset.
No, I think he knows exactly what she is, and when you take a character like that out of (romantic) comedy and put them into something more like reality, this is what it looks like. That is the point. If you are horrified, it is working.
A+
It’s funny, because to me they read exactly the same.
She’s short packed Robin with added bigotry and her politics flipped, it’s sorta like we got evil short packed Robin instead of dumbing of age Robin
She’s not any more evil or less considerate than Shortpacked! Robin was for a good 75-85% of the Walkyverse. In DoA, it just has ramifications.
Hey, everyone who keeps saying “Leslie should totally call the cops”? I’m sure that Leslie is aware of police and their social function. The fact that she hasn’tcalled the cops means that she has some sort of agenda other than ousting Robin. Leslie is obviously a teacher to her bones, and she is more irritated about Robin’s (willful?) ignorance than she is irritated at an uninvited-ish Congressperson bunkering down in front of her TV.
Robin is exactly right that she and Leslie are not too far apart on what they are trying to do. They are both trying to present points of view and information to people. And they are both trying to convince people that the presented points of view and information is correct and worthy of adopting. The devil is in the details.
I think it’s more the fact Leslie is afraid she’d be arrested or kicked out of her own house. Leslie doesn’t own the property and Robin is a Senator.
That one. Leslie is very much unsure that the cops will side with her.
also, like, maybe she doesn’t want Robin to go to jail? she just wants Robin to leave. :/
Yeah! Because The facts of the case are all that would matter. Cops would totally side with some lesbian college professor and not a conservative member of Congress.
OK that was sarcasm and I’m sorry, but calling the cops really isn’t that great of an option for Leslie.
Okay Robin sort of has a point. Leslie was kind of using Becky as a means to an end however pure her intentions for Becky ultimately are. There was no reason she couldn’t have worked on getting Robin out while Becky was at work so this wouldn’t have to be Becky’s problem. But I think she also wanted to make herself feel slightly better about her previous crush by presenting Robin with a living breathing example of someone she’s hurting and be shown she has some small crumb of decency. However by doing this she was kind of making Becky a prop for a guilt trip. However by doing this she now knows that Robin has no decency or empathy. Not even a little bit. Not at this point anyway.
Nah. Becky chose to come along, so she’s not a prop in the plan. And Leslie was not trying to use her to score a political point, so she’s not a political prop.
I’d say more, but just read Cerberus’s excellent post. There’s a whole lot of implications that go with what Robin said that turn what may seem superficially to be a valid point into a completely invalid one.
I foresee Robin making Becky her slave. After all, she’s perfect to do the errands which need to be done while she builds her political career. Things like Twizzlers acquisition and more. Of course, Becky won’t get paid for this but that’s just how the situation goes. They can win TWICE as many votes by oppressing FOUR TIMES as many minorities this way.
I would expect Becky to put up with exactly none of that.
I was just in my life drawing class and managed to take a snapshot of what that asian girl in front of me drew.
http://imgur.com/a/7Hawn(NSFW…I guess?)
I don’t know why she’s even taking this class.
is the link broken?
http://imgur.com/a/7Hawn
I got a bit of the (NSFW) in there. oops. Ruining my own joke.
anime boob
That’s exactly why she’s in the class. When I was in art school I knew people who could barely draw stick figures having graduated with a firm understanding of basic anatomy, gesture, and form. Unless she’s just bullshitting of course, then gtfo.
She already draws better than I do. It’s cartoony, but there’s consistency and a smoothness to it.
I think it looks less like inability and more like not actually trying. Sure, trying might make something that doesn’t look as good, but it would be closer to the style the class is going for.
Of course, she could not be trying for many reasons, like thinking it’s too easy. Or a fear of failure. Or many other reasons, both good and bad. It’s a good thing teachers will be able to see all of her work to help decide.
I feel like I’m being complimented on my ability to draw like an amateur or it’s just EXTREME dedication to the bit.
CALL THE POLICE, LESLIE
THEY WILL REMOVE HER
Screw that, it’s 3-against-1 now. They should be able to throw her out like Jazz (like someone mentioned earlier) and batten down all points of entry..
They’ll have to leave at some point tho.
When she opens the door to let Joyce out, Robin’s back in
Nah. They just have to close the door behind them as quickly as possible, just like not letting the cat out.
….so Joyce has only watched The Phantom Menace, then. and only bits of the Phantom Menace??
the mind. it boggles.
at least she got to meet Padme Amidala and her girl gang, kinda sorta.
Her Teen Girl Squad, if you will
InDeed
Also… Luke’s the one who DID actually turn Darth Vader tho
Panel 3: But no seriously, fuck Robin here. She’s danced her way conversationally away from having a real conversation and used it to reinforce the “normal” she is trying to impose by dishonest means. And that shit infuriates me, because it’s what my mom used to do every time I tried to have an honest conversation about what my dad and uncle were doing to me.
Just dance away from the meat, manipulate it into being my fault or a sign of impropriety on my part and reinforcing a fake normal. And it felt like shit. And Robin’s smug face as she gets out of in any way acknowledging the humanity of the real homeless girl in the room or the meat of Leslie’s demand and continues to press deeper against Leslie’s boundaries, stealing part of her house to become her semi-permanent office.
Like, I want to be sympathetic to Robin here. She is going through a major life upheaval, but her actions are so horrifyingly awful and cruel that I really want Leslie to escape her and be safe without having to lose her home in the process as is seeming very likely.
Panel 4: Oh Leslie. That fury. That fury is so so justified.
Panel 5: Good on you Leslie for trying. And for holding on to the truth as you are being gaslit more and more. It’s what you’re going to need to get through this.
Panel 6: Oh wow, so much, so let’s start with the smaller stuff first. One, yeah, Leslie is quickly running out of civil options of handling this. Like, she tried breaking off contact. That didn’t work. She tried ghosting. That didn’t work. She tried telling her story. That didn’t work. She tried setting firm boundaries and disengaging. That didn’t work. She tried ultimatums, final appeals to Robin’s humanity, even physically removing her from her home. All of them failed.
And she’s quickly being left with four options, all of which are terrible. Inviting the media into her home, which would destroy her privacy and mean she would likely have to leave the home for good. Going to a shelter and trying to move into a new residence, which would be really bad and would especially suck as she’s trying to find options for Becky.
Calling the cops, which, sitting US representative with likely political pull with the boss’s bosses of cops, not very likely to go well for her and if past is precedent with folks who try and bring legal proceedings against politicians likely means cop harassment for months as they try and passively push her out of town. Or open violence, which would very much land her in jail, probably for life as the system really frowns on folks attacking politicians.
All of these would suck and might not even work. And it frustrates her because she’s a teacher, she wants to reach out, she wants to be seen. She wants to help bring people to knowledge and understanding about the world and themselves. And part of her does want Robin to naturally figure her shit out and be worthy of her libido’s obsession with her. But… this is becoming abusive to the point where there might no longer be benefit in trying to reach out anymore.
I’m glad you still have it in you to want to be sympathetic to Robin, because I can’t even give her that. I don’t want to. I don’t.
Regarding panel three reaction: I also still want to be sympathetic to Robin but it’s because I feel like something needed to happen to her to make her the way she currently is. Like, I logically and objectively know that some people are just born without a moral compass, but it’s still always mind-boggling, and I can never really wrap my head around characters that seem so self-centered and unempathic without thinking there has to have been something, some sort of abuse, accident, or other kind of trauma to make people that way. Maybe I’m too optimistic. Maybe I just need there to be a cause even when there really isn’t one.
That’s just it though, because at this point, there have been so so so many chances for Robin to even slightly open up or reconsider or maybe grant other characters the slightest bit of decency for baring their vulnerabilities to try and get through to her–it just doesn’t matter at this moment from everything we have seen whether there is or isn’t a “reason” for Robin to be acting the way she is.
Characters like Joyce are confronted with something that shatters their wrongly planted misconceptions borne of toxic upbringing and, when faced with it, are able to brunt the consequences of what they have done and change. Characters like Robin, and really, there’s only one character like Robin, are confronted with a homeless lesbian girl and refuse to give up a couch they claimed in violation of another person’s safety and privacy, because them facing the ‘real world’ is too hard even when the ‘them’ in question have two perfectly good houses of their own to hide out in that DO NOT REQUIRE ANY DEHUMANIZING TOWARD PEOPLE LIKE LESLIE AND BECKY.
Unless we learn something absolutely life-shattering about Robin I don’t think her actions are going to be sympathetic and no matter what we learn or what she does from this point forward, nothing will have ever undone the behavior and callousness she is displaying right this second. I don’t care if later, Robin is redeemed, like Joyce was redeemed: right this second Robin is both the adult in a position of power and someone refusing to acknowledge / honor the rights of the more vulnerable people around her. What we learn about her doesn’t undo the damage she’s done, and even if she is sympathetic in the long run, she doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt when she’s given us nothing to deserve it besides having a history of not being a total shitbag in an alternate universe.
“Characters like Robin, and really, there’s only one character like Robin”
.. Unfortunately, the world is full of characters like Robin. =I.
Oh, absolutely. Mercifully though in terms of characters in this universe, we only got one that was a full-blown politician aka in a position to use district/regional/federal privileges and power to do shit like this and then be wacky hijinks about it.
sometimes it’s easier to change your mind when you’re younger because you don’t have as much sunk cost into the things you believe. whereas robin has invested a lot of time and money into getting whatever she wants, which makes it a lot harder for her to accept that she can’t just get whatever she wants. unfortunately.
Regarding panel 3 reaction: I feel like you should be canonised as a saint. I can’t imagine what it’d be like to be (or have been) in Leslie’s shoes and still going “I want to sympathise with the unboundaried, oppressive fuckwit, and after, what, two strips? I had already gone from “ok, how can we handle this calmly?” to “is the flamethrower fully fueled?”
There may be another option, and Leslie might be able to make it work.
Robin sees everything in terms of her “winning”. She wants to “win” over Leslie, in more than one sense of the term.
But she’s also a politician whose career is at a critical point. She’s claimed she can run for re-election on Twitter alone (and then sabotages herself by getting into Twitter fights), but Leslie can point out that that cannot possibly work, because not all of her potential supportive constituents are on Twitter.
I suspect that there are many negative ads and news reports and polls that Leslie can point to showing that people are turning against Robin because of the current situation.
So Leslie can argue that Robin can only win the election if she gets out there in front of the media circus, and spins this fiasco to her advantage. Winning is important, right? You do want to win, Robin, don’t you? Get out there and start winning!
For Leslie, the important part is “Get out”, but the emphasis that Robin hears is “start winning!”
After Robin leaves, Leslie can improve her security by changing the locks and putting bars on the windows.
You’re still assuming that Robin cares enough about her career and her surroundings in general to be willing to acknowledge that she can’t win the election from Leslie’s couch in the face of all rational evidence. It’s not about winning, it’s about saying you’ve won and making others believe in the fiction or else just wear them into despair with the delusional narrative.
Panel 6 (cont): Ok, I’ve danced around this enough, let’s talk about the political metaphor made explicit here. What Leslie is outlining is a problem a lot of folks are running into with the current political clusterfuck. And that’s what do you do when the “other side” is openly antagonistic to reality, openly cheating their way into power, and refusing to accept any check or balance to what they’re stealing? What do you do when every civil option has been exhausted because the system has fully failed and talking is doing nothing against the awfulness that keeps getting worse.
In that way, Robin’s Trumpisms become ever-more literal in their metaphor as Robin is a stand-in for that sort of immovable hostile force and the complete rejection of any peaceful resolution or acknowledgment of anyone else’s humanity and the open theft of what was never theirs to take.
And Leslie becomes all of us on the margins, figuring out how to survive, how to effect any meaningful change against a system that keeps getting worse for us when our legal and civil options keep getting checkmated off the board. Like, to be more specific.
What can we do when fascists are recruiting and are being more and more backed by one political party who has essentially stolen possibly permanent power? When our votes no longer matter in large parts of the country? When our right to peaceful protest is being limited more and more and folks are trying to make it legal to run us over and murder us for it? When our voices are being strangled out and terrorized out of public spaces in the name of “free speech”? When it is harder and harder to survive and figure out a way to affect real meaningful change that isn’t violent revolution against a tyrant who wants us dead?
I’m haunted by this situation as I see things getting worse and worse and more and more fascist and potentially fatal for me and mine and it starts to feel more and more that civil means are not going to fix this anymore. That there’s no amount of “reaching out” and “showing our best face” that will not end in the fascists laughing at our “weakness” and attacking.
And it’s terrifying, because I am a pacifist, but I’m also a queer person who remembers Stonewall and ACT-UP and the Dan White riots and how necessary those all were in affecting real change.
And I’m also a person whose girlfriend is being right now openly doxxed and terrorized by nazis simply because she dared to be jewish and a friend to trans people. Who feel no fear of being arrested or even having their accounts suspended because we as a nation have decided that white terrorism is acceptable under “free speech”.
And so yeah, Leslie’s struggle is really relatable because at a certain point, trying to talk down your oppressors or abusers doesn’t work and you have to cut and run and at a certain point of awful, cutting and running doesn’t even work anymore. So yeah, the limiting of civil options is palpable.
And it’s even more fraught for Leslie because well, she already lost a home once and had to rebuild everything from scratch. This home she’s built is years in the making and full of genuine hard-work to scramble her way to this point. Abandoning it is hard and especially abandoning it yet again to bigots intruding on her right to just live her life in peace I imagine is even harder.
And so yeah, there’s that extra layer of bitterness and dehumanization that I think is making this situation feel even more like “why the fuck am I trying to reach out instead of just pushing this shit back once and for all with a show of force before I lose yet another home to bigoted assholes”.
And it puts this whole arc into a whole new light, because now that the political metaphor is made more explicit. Yeah, of course Leslie is having her work impacted (how many of us have found it harder to focus at work since Piss Hitler stole power?). Yeah, of course Leslie is trying to point to real people hurt and try everything to reach out only to fail. Yeah, of course she’s reacting poorly and feeling powerless.
She’s stuck in a nightmare and it’s based in her home and refuses to leave, just like this political nightmare all of us in America are trapped in as the rules more and more continue not to matter and it’s feeling like there’s nothing outside of violent revolution to make them matter again. And that terrifies me because I really really don’t want to be forced into a situation where I have to be violent to survive or get a survivable life for me and mine and I’m worried we’re losing more and more options out of fixing that.
So yeah, Leslie’s brokenness here resonates strongly and I’m even more sympathetic and scared for her, because she’s running out of more and more of her options and is being broken by this.
I call it ‘The Context of Trump:’ all the things normally annoying or even funny but ultimately innocuous that suddenly take on this anxiety-inducing dread when you remember who’s in the White House. I deleted games over it, I stopped watching shows because of it. I’m shocked to think of how long it took me to connect it to this comic and the discomfort I feel every time Robin shows up.
‘Trumptext’?
time to take a stand by the river of truth and say “no, you move” i guess
after a certain point there’s no argument, there’s just action, and it sucks so much because it’s painful and you want things to have a good ending. because, like, what the other side wants is so intensely miserable and selfish that it’s intolerable. but they can never see beyond their own space. so all you can do is carve out a space for yourself, and defend it with everything that you’ve got.
but that space that leslie made is being invaded and possibly destroyed, and maybe there’ll be other spaces, but for now this here it hurts. and i mean either you pick yourself up and keep going, or you dig in and defend your space, but either way that infringement sucks.
idk idk it’s not easy it’s never easy but it’s necessary
Running is good, if you can, sometimes. At least the right wingers seem intent on dismantling the machinery of empire, so there’s that tiny consolation. I mean, that means jack and shit for the folks suffering in the USA itself, so.
She couldn’t watch Star Wars but you was allowed to watch fucking twilight.
twilight just had stalking, which the browns were okay with, apparently
Based on Roomies, I assume that’s a universe constant.
Joyce was basically a fundie Kanker sister.
which kanker sister though?
The hot one.
So basically all of themthey didn’t have sex before marriage! that made everything okay!!
honestly twilight probably hit Mrs. B straight in her middle-aged fantasy-desiring heart. like. it was a huge hit among middle-aged moms, pretty much because it really struck this chord about relationships and desire for them. like: bella gets literally everything she could possibly want, and that’s the fantasy of it, i think.
star wars, on the other hand, is just too emotionally healthy and ethically gray to be put up with. like the people don’t have healthy emotions always but they’re at least allowed to be expressed and given catharsis. that’s what it is. it’s emotionally cathartic
I started out giving Robin the benefit of the doubt, but at this point I would happily, pro bono, defend Leslie in court for beating the crap out of Robin.
over here they used the prequel part with lifting the ship & yoda as a parallel to the mustard seed of faith
My first ever exposure to Star Wars (that I can remember) was my parents showing me a clip of Luke facing down the Emperor and saying that he’ll never turn to the Dark Side, using it as an example of how to face down “evil influences” or something. At the time, I had no idea of what I was even watching.
My first experience with the films was not until a couple of years later, when we were visiting some friends and they wanted to show me and my siblings the Star Wars films – we got about ten minutes into The Phantom Menace (the whole Jedi vs. battle-droids thing basically hooked me instantly) before the oldest one basically said, “Wait no, let’s start with Episode IV first.”
i can easily believe that
i know that my youth pastor used the going out on the invisible bridge in Indiana Jones as a metaphor for taking a leap of faith
Well, I mean, the movie itself directly does that, so that’s no… great… leap……
I’ll leave.
lololol
it’s fair it’s just grating because you’re supposed to think your youth pastor is cool for letting you watch five minutes of a film that was cool when he was a kid
Something I’ve noticed that Leslie is doing wrong here* is that she keeps following Robin down the rabbit holes.
Meaning, she keeps falling into the trap of paying attention to and arguing the shiny details that Robin throws out into the ether, rather than sticking to the essentials. Instead of staying, unvarying, on the point that Robin is a criminal trespasser who needs to leave, she is getting distracted by muffins, and arguing whether the kids are props, and a sideline into Star Wars.
And all of that, I think, is sabotaging her. …. assuming she had any chance for success in the first place, that is. Which… I dunno. Maybe?
* to be clear, I don’t say that Leslie’s to blame. Not at all. I’m just saying, look at this technique, see how this is not good tactics, let’s learn from it.
right.
every time Leslie argues with Robin, she gives her what she wants: her attention.
so maybe more of a “I want you to leave my house.” over and over. “That’s nice, Robin, so when are you going to leave my house?” brick wall it.
Yes. Robin’s tactic is deflection. It’s a classic verbal defence because it works.
Now that is a good point. Not morally wrong, but a bad tactic. (I hate that we mix these two concepts under the same word.In fact, I wonder how much of my disagreement is over the words being used differently.)
Leslie is not trained in this type of rhetoric. She’s trained in teaching, sure, but that’s a situation where she’s in charge, where she has the power to remove anyone who is deflecting.
There actually is good in learning political tactics, even if you have no intention to be a politician yourself. Even if it’s only to be able to undermine them. (Similarly, Dorothy was unable to undermine Roz’s political tactics.)
Engaging with Robin is the incorrect option. Sure, bringing in Becky wasn’t a bad idea, but then she let it be deflected. She didn’t say “No. I did not use Becky as a prop. I am trying to get a trespasser to leave my apartment.”
She only has to metaphorically resort to violence at this point. As in, stop trying to convince and start trying to force.
Star Wars, or, as I like to call it, “A Tale of a Facist Regime and the Attempts to Stall It, In Which the Jedi Try to Be Helpful But Ultimately Get Distracted By Personal Drama.”
I wonder what plot point Rey and/or Finn will chase to an ultimately useless conclusion while Poe leads the Resistance to victory? Place your bets now.
Seriously, though, Luke– If you had just let your dad die a bad guy, I wouldn’t have to explain the difference between a hero and a protagonist to so many people on Twitter.
All of this could have been avoided.
Vader did die a bad guy. Being sorry for murdering a bunch of people (including children) and helping instate and support a galaxy-wide fascist regime means essentially jack shit especially not when the only reason you stop is because it was either that or murder your own child. Vader’s redemption is bullshit and completely and utterly unearned because redemption CAN’T be earned for the things he did.
The end of Return of the Jedi pisses me off more than the prequels, and this is why. Because, canonically, it’s all good – Anakin is seen there with Yoda and Kenobi waving and smiling like everyone was best buddies now, but Anakin BLEW UP A MOTHERFUCKING PLANET! Like, no, dudes, no.
Then again, both Yoda and Kenobi (and most of the Jedi in the EU, anyway) were incredible assholes, so maybe force ghosting is incredible torture?
I watched the force awakens with a friend and she – not being into sf and not having seen the original 3 at an impressionable age – commented “ok, one group wears more diverse clothing and jokes more while they commit mass murder”. Which sort of boiled down the movie quite well.
I genuinely don’t recall the protagonists engaging in mass murder.
This is why one of my favourite scenes in the EU is when Leia calls bullshit on Vader’s redemption.
Oh, Joyce, that’s the worst part of Star Wars…
I think that this is the point Willis is making.
Okay, this is the first time that I’ve seen DoA Robin be genuinely nasty.
That aside, in response to Willis’s alt-text, I’m the sort of person who points out that, as Christianity originated in the Middle East and the Hebrews from Northern Iraq, it could be considered an ‘Eastern’ religion. Indeed, even in the Bible, Moses called the people of that area the ‘Easterners’.
Really.
The class visit wasn’t horrifying enough.
Really.
Really? The “I gained entry into your house without your knowledge, let alone permission, and then laid out in you bed next to you while you were sleeping, and then staid in your house after you told me to go, and then I climbed back through your window after you bodily threw me out” isn’t nasty to you? Like, what?
It isn’t; to me it’s the indication of some pretty serious problems in how she judges what is socially acceptable behaviour but not ‘nasty’. Of course, we saw yesterday that we differ in our perspective on that.
If you think behavior like this is merely a symptom of “poor judgement,” and let alone merely poor judgement of “socially acceptable behavior” instead of a very nasty reflection of what this character is actually like, then I am not sure what it takes to convince you that someone awful is objectively an awful person who treats other people in awful ways.
That’s just deflecting, like Robin is doing. This is not a matter of perspective.
What Robin has been doing for a long time has been objectively wrong. She broke into someone’s house. She refused to leave when told. She came back afterwards. And still refused to leave. She has shown she cares not one bit about Leslie or how any of this will affect her.
People who don’t understand social niceties but are otherwise good people don’t do these things. They might be clueless for a bit, but direct statements do not elude them.
What you are saying is like saying the guy who had sex with a girl when she said no might not be a rapist, because he might have thought her protests were fake.
And that’s without getting into how awful Robin has been before all of this. If this was the first time she was being nasty, it would seem completely out of character. If, say, Sierra was suddenly this nasty, we’d think something was up. The only way it makes sense is if Robin has been consistently portrayed as a nasty person.
Literally everyone else has been talking about how horrible Robin is, including people who actually know people like her. How can you come away thinking she only has issues with boundaries and social cues?
“What Robin has been doing for a long time has been objectively wrong. She broke into someone’s house. She refused to leave when told. She came back afterwards. And still refused to leave.”
I mean, a lot of these complaints seem to just be a huge misunderstanding of comedic framing. Robin’s behavior is unacceptable, yes, but unacceptable in a cartoonish, sitcom way. I really think people have taken a flawed-but-mostly-comedic character and taken it to a really melodramatic place.
Oh yeah. Robin’s “antics” are always overblown and hilarious, how could anyone think the real consequences to characters who don’t have her sunny worldview might be serious and distraught by having their dehumanization being treated as wacky sitcom hijinks.
I know there’s a reason for this whole Robin in Leslie’s house thing but I really just do not understand how Leslie hasn’t called the cops to remove Robin from her home if she is unwanted. Robin isn’t on the lease, for one, and even if there’s the whole craze with the politics thing… the cops can still be called and she can be forcibly removed?
Am I not understanding something regarding why Leslie is putting up with this? I know the attempts at understanding/plot with Roz happened and she regrets that but…Robin is still an invader in her home.
I suppose perhaps she hadn’t thought of it out of duress but…this really bothers me for some reason. 🙁
The cops would not necessarily be on Leslie’s side. See above comments for details.
I think there may be various things coming into play as to why Leslie hasn’t called the cops yet. For one, I think she somehow thought she could maybe reason with Robin, when she tries everything she can. Some part of her probably still likes her, feels pity for her, or both and more, and therefore she tries, hard.
Now then comes the other factor that journalists are probably still around her home, because of the leak of a picture showing Robin and her from an angle from which it seems they were kissing (I hope I remember this correctly. If not, please correct me). Now I don’t know if the cops work like real cops should (as we didn’t really get to see them), but there’s this notion or rather idea of “Well, they were on a date the night before, so they maybe just quarrel” (though that’d probably not affect it); in addition to Robin being a famous politician, if Leslie complained, I doubt the police force would believe her because as soon as they’d be called Robin would probably disappear or wind her way out of it as a politician or deflect any attack on herself, probably even somehow twist things so that it may seem that Leslie was overreacting, etc.etc. And maybe some part of Leslie senses that. And again there’s still journalists out there so calling cops would definitely enhance the mess of everything.
That’s the disadvantage Leslie has here – She fights with words and ideas. However, Robin is just arrogant and ignorant enough to be immune to reason in all its forms. If it doesn’t fit into her personally-preferred state of the universe, then she filters it out and consider herself smarter and more successful for doing so.
I honestly wonder if even force would avail here or whether she’d keep coming back because not doing so is to lose and Robin deSanto never loses. I can actually see her throwing the election just to beat Leslie because, right now, that’s the most important thing to her. Then she’ll realise what she’s done and, yes, it will be Leslie’s fault. She’ll storm out, blaming her and vowing never to talk to her again before arranging regular encounters when she can blame Leslie for everything that’s going wrong in her life.
…honestly… I’m just reaching “Get on with it!” point here with Robin and Leslie. It’s been hitting the same point over and over again, Robin is exasperating, traumatizing and in absurd levels of denial, Leslie slowly losing her mind trying to get Robin to GTFO, and it’s been going on for months with just about no change or anything new really happening…
Now imagine this was your life, and you had no way of escaping it.
I agree, this is just getting frustrating. Robin and Lesbian are my favourite characters and pairing and waiting for pin to drop and for Robin to come to terms with what she is is maddening. However, I do think we are at a potential point of clarity for her, but only if she sits down and talks to Beckie. Because Beckie is similar enough to her and from a situation close enough to her’s that even Robin could not avoid the parralels. If that happen we might actually see Robin have a real breakdown. It’s not redemption but it’s a step in the right direction.
I can agree that it’s getting repetitive. Though I will point out that things seem to take longer in comic format.
Be happy this isn’t the ship plot on Order of the Stick, and Willis does understand pacing a webcomic and not just treating it like a paper comic.
There’s no way this goes on too much longer. He knows he’s just riding on the hatred of Robin to keep everyone wanting to tune in and see what happens. Surely he understand outrage fatigue, which is much, much more a thing with fiction.
No, Robin. You have thoroughly destroyed any chances of rubbing off on Leslie.
Let’s just take a moment to appreciate how bloody cute Joyce is in this chapter.
Okay, back to bickering about Star Wars.
Joyce IS in fact bloody cute.
Option 1. Strike Robin in the face really hard, it may make come to her senses but at the very least it’ll make her easier to remove from her place and then tell the media that Robin was trespassing and wouldn’t leave or
Option 2. Go outside and tell the media that is not welcome and won’t leave and then invite the media into your house
I mean lets face it, it cant get much worse cwith the media as it is
Is it really so hard to throw out unwanted people from your own flat where they just are freeloaders?
If their in the government and you wanna bang em, yes.
Leslie literally threw Robin out on her ass and has done everything from begging to demanding in terms of trying to get the shitbag out.
Robin is immovable like a bedbug infestation. And there are very good reasons, as other commenters have pointed out, why calling the police is a non-option here for Leslie up to this point going against a “freeloader” that has quite a bit more leverage with the law.
Joyce’s line. I’m DYING.
Just gonna throw my 5 cents on the Star Wars thing.
I think the original trilogy gets in the way of a much better story.
Clone Wars and Rebels are both great series, it’s the movies that are the problem.
Also I liked the politics in the prequels.
D:<
* wordless screeching *
Another someone who likes The Clone Wars and Rebels!
The Clone Wars series is my favorite Star Wars storyline. Haven’t gotten to watching Rebels. I feel like Clone Wars did have more cohesion than the films.
I’ve liked what I’ve seen of The Clone Wars and Rebels. As for the prequel movies, I can kind of see the gleam of an interesting story peeking out between the cracks in all that flawed execution.
The Clone Wars is the BEST. <3333
There’s three of you now.
Literally just throw her out.
ugghhh the longer robin stays in the apt the more frustrated i get
… Are Robin’s parents still kind of shitty in this universe?
I’m guessing yes.
Honestly, does it matter what her parents were like? Like, at all? There are a laundry list of characters with shitty parents in DoA and absolutely none of them, to my knowledge, have shown the absolute dearth of compassion and respect toward other human beings that Robin has.
Plus Roz complains so much about people who suck that I’m guessing she’d have a Robin-length spiel on their mom on the books if the latter really was more worthy of complaining about than as a mom who didn’t know when to call it quits on the kid-having and use a condom.
No, I wasn’t looking for an excuse. Just wondering because some of the psychological issues she’s showing here match the ones in SP!, and I like how it’s easier to see here that having those issues doesn’t make her actions forgivable. Easier to understand, maybe, but not forgivable.
This is going to end with severed hands.
Should have brought Mike instead.
(Tl;dr ahead! Sorry I know this is usually someone else’s bag *cough* but I like to overanalyze comics sometimes myself and especially to keep past strips in perspective of the place in the arc where we are now. So I wrote a goddamn novel.)
So, people, glad everyone’s starting to come around, BUT I’ll say yet again as a word to those that would still defend the Congresswoman in the house: Robin’s had about fifty fucking opportunities to show a single shred of genuine decency (e.g., the way Leslie unhesitatingly poured out her heart and offered resources and a home to Becky because Leslie cares for her plight).
Robin’s had opportunities to own up to the damage her beliefs and practices are causing others (e.g., Joyce breaking up with Ethan with profuse apologies and realizing her own personal accountability in what her belief system put Becky through inadvertently their entire lives).
Robin’s had opportunities to admit, maybe even fucking once, that she’s in the wrong, that she needs to change, and that what she’s doing is treating others’ rights and requests as things to be shrugged off or slunk around with trollish non-logic to serve her own selfish and maligned interests (e.g., Roz in direct contrast actually acknowledging and caring about others’ humanity and more importantly IMPROVING on her bad / marginalizing behaviors when they are called out).
Robin’s had plenty of chances. Robin’s probably going to get more chances before this plot thread closes. And yet she’s done nothing defensible and even things she could be granted sympathy for are being repeatedly overridden by her unwillingness to account for the difference and own up to damages caused in her reactions to the inconvenience of her circumstances.
If Robin had done anything even sympathetic up to this point that wasn’t plastered on and fake and not-really meant–if Robin had even done by inaction a degree harm that was not to the scale of, literally, dehumanizing people and doing so with the privilege and on the scale of a voting member of the House of Representatives–I’d give her slack. I’d give her slack if she gave us anything to allow it for. She hasn’t. So do not buy into Robin’s wording here, trying to establish a bullshit false equivalence with other characters who unlike her are not horrible people who throw the chances they’re given at redemption back in full mockery. What Robin does callously and militantly to demean others is not anyhow equivalent to Leslie bending moral guidelines and violating ethics in desperation to get her house back so that it will be a safe place for Becky to live. What Robin does knowingly and then refusing to acknowledge any consequence of in the same breath is not equivalent to Roz going cutthroat to win back her own freedom and the freedoms of others by the means required instead of playing nice-nice, while still having the self-awareness and recognition to back down when her methods are reproved for doing damage to the very causes she purports to represent. Robin is…just not defensible at this point. She’s as bad as Mary. At least Mary has the decency to wear her antagonism openly, instead of masking it behind camaraderie belied by a total refusal to back it up with understanding and integrity through action.
Being playful and sweet does not constitute goodness in any form, just like being harsh and critical isn’t a guaranteed hallmark of a character who’s supposed to be bad or wrong. So let’s please stop defending Robin. Or, and more importantly to what’s been pissing me off so much about this arc and people’s interpretations of it…let’s stop a moment from viciously attacking characters who make mistakes in of momentary actions when those are just taking the focus away from the actual villain here. Which is Robin. Robin is the bad guy. She’s not making mistakes, because mistakes are things you have to admit to and Robin hasn’t.
Maybe she will. Until then…please carry on, because for all the ranting I’m super gratified that people are growing increasingly horrified at the natural progression of where Robin’s behavior was always going to lead in terms of harm done.
Not to defend Robin or push the equivalency, but to me Leslie seems far more focused on getting her house back for her, rather than for Becky. Understandable – this is horrible to go through.
If you look back where she first suggested this – the offer was definitely made first, but it was made in an “if you ever need it” manner, which only became a “We need to go today” when she realized she could use Becky to persuade/remove Robin.
We can understand why that is and certainly not put her on the same level as Robin, without whitewashing her motives.
Yeah, her motives don’t need whitewashing and I’m honestly not trying to diminish any malignant aspects of any of Leslie’s individual actions here, only what they reflect on her overall character. Because it’s lessened down since the cutaway to another storyline but last time this storyline was center stage there was a lot of vitriol for Leslie that I thought went beyond the scope of the thing she was doing in that moment.
More when she realized that this offer was being stunted by the person who refused to leave and who she didn’t know if she would ever leave and hoped that meeting the person she is displacing and seeing her would somehow get through to Robin’s singular shred of empathy.
Whitewashing her motives implies she’s doing something wrong. But she’s not. She got Becky’s permission to do this. It’s like in another comic I read where an asshole spends the whole time trying to convince the main character that they’ve just used their friends in something, when her friends came along entirely of their own free will.
This is what bothers me. This idea that wanting to get Robin out of her house is wrong. That’s the only way it makes sense to say that bringing Becky along is wrong. If Becky is willing, and the action they are doing isn’t wrong, then what she’s doing isn’t wrong.
The only thing I’ve seen Leslie do wrong (morally) in all of this is her crush in the first place. You can extinguish a crush. I’ve done it, and it seems like Leslie didn’t try. Sure, it may seem harmless, and it usually is. But it’s only because of her crush that this stupid idea of how to convince her came along. (And that isn’t immoral, just naive. Neither she nor Roz seemed to walk into this understnading the full consequences.)
Anyways, point is, I don’t see anything wrong with what Leslie has done here. So I see no need to whitewash anything. No need to call her malignant for trying to get a trespasser and violator out of her home.
Hell, I’d even call her a sexual harasser at this point. She’s been rejected from the relationship and holding on. It’s not molestation, and it’s not rape. But it is a step below that. It is violating Leslie’s autonomy, her right to reject her advances.
No, trying to get Robin out is not at all wrong. Dragging her student and her student’s homeless gay friend into her personal but high profile disaster.
They’re not friends. They’re not equals. They’re not peers. That changes things.
Leslie’s an adult. And a teacher. It’s not at all cool to drag vulnerable kids into a hot mess that she can’t handle herself.
That she’s desperate enough to grasp at this straw shows how bad the situation is and how hard it’s already been on her.
Specifically though, “whitewashing her motives” was really just meant to not make them seem more altruistic than they are. Minder implied that Leslie was trying to get Robin to leave just to make sure Becky had a safe place, while it seems clear to me that she’s trying to get Robin to leave for her own benefit.
Having the safe place for Becky would be a nice side benefit.
Well, then, um, what you’re saying by proxy in that last part though is that Leslie has actually brought both a student of hers and another (homeless) 18-year-old girl into her home, knowing that a sexual harasser is living there. Specifically with intent for them to meet her.
Like I don’t think Leslie’s actions can really be classified here as moral or immoral per se but in terms of shit that could go wrong, I think she had some reasons beforehand that her better and more rational, non-desperate self would stop and think about seriously before bringing these already traumatized girls into this even if they said they were okay to go.
I was homeschooled…I didn’t get to watch Star Wars at all (until college) because we didn’t have a TV because anything you might watch on a TV was evil. Not that I’m criticizing, but I’m kind of surprised Joyce is such a big fan of Twilight and One Direction. I had a bad case of Homeschool Superiority where I was too snooty to like anything that was popular especially among those poor misled eeeeeevil public schoolers, because you can tell something is bad if public school kids like it.
Sometimes I think about the other kids in Joyce’s church that weren’t as well socialized as Joyce. Are she and Becky the ends of the spectrum, or is Becky in second place. The possibilities scare me, and I was raised among hardshell Baptists.
Joyce is the most ‘well behaved’ according to her church’s standards. Everyone else might have succumbed to secular wiles, but not Joyce!
This is why I want more kid-Joyce (and Becky) flashbacks. Sure, Becky’s working fast to catch up on everything from pop culture from science – I think this is in spite of her upbringing, not because of it.
I’m surprised that a trilogy of films that were… pretty clearly a jab at the Bush administration got past the Browns. Perhaps it was too subtle for them so they just read the eeeevil chancellor as whatever political figure they disliked at the time.
That’d be a neat trick, since TPM came out in 1999.
honestly you can ignore whatever you want as long as you want to
But… But what about the Evil Muffins?
Didn’t Vader Force feed somebody a muffin once?
the dastardliness of that man
I laughed that Dorothy has only seen parts of the prequel trilogy.
i recognize that robin is being paralleled with donald trump, repeatedly, in comic, but this bothers me, because it seems like the nearest parallel really should be marco rubio. argument as follows:
1) robin is a hispanic woman. she’s never going to be allowed into the rich dead white guys club. she’s never going to be allowed to inherit from the rich dead white guys club.
2) but this doesn’t mean that the rich dead white guys won’t let her think they’ll let her into the rich dead white guys club. on mondays, maybe, when nobody important is around and she should be working anyways
3) robin knows this but is in major denial and is working overtime in order to be on the level of all the rich dead white guys around her who work half as hard to get twice as much
4) robin would totally use spanish to beat up ted cruz behind the dennys in washington dc. hell, she’d probably take a blackmail video.
5) HOWEVER, this is one she would probably never use, because it features her speaking spanish, and she needs to appear as white as possible before her audience of white people and sponsors of rich dead white guys.
6) HOWEVER, this doesn’t mean that she wouldn’t profit off of trump’s dialogue and see how his tactics can work to her advantage, and she’s just manipulative enough to do it without worrying about the consequences as long as she can get what she wants.
7) if what she wants is power, she can get that, as long as she performs her assigned function of making the rich dead white guys around her look more diverse. they’ll never make her president willingly, unless she becomes their only option. in which case they will vouch for her (unwillingly) in order to get what they want. it is an ouroborus system of people using people until they all devour each other and the world implodes
7)the…the point is, she has much more in common with marco rubio than she does with donald trump, but it makes sense for her to associate herself with donald trump rather than marco rubio. because she wants to be seen as reliable and successful, and trump has proven himself capable of gaslighting a significant portion of the population into thinking that he is both.
8) marco rubio, similarly, probably would not associate himself with robin as he wants to set his own standard and name, and robin can’t get him anything that the rich dead white dudes can’t.
9) what i’m saying is that they probably kick each other under the table whenever they visit the rich dead white dudes’ club and smile angelically whenever the rich dead white dudes look at them. but actually it gets neither of them anywhere
ergh. let’s just label the first 7 as 7a and the second 7 as 7b
She’s not actually Trump. She’s just a politician that operates like him and uses the ruthlessness of a created narrative over fact to dehumanize people and act like this is totally fine and how the world works.
She won’t make it into the white boys’ club but she can make it fine rubbing elbows with the less-than-charitable citizens of Indiana who decide her office position. And she’s in the House. She’s using her power.
She’s just doing it in a much more smiley way and on a smaller scale–so that we can see the individual lives she is ruining with her attitude.
ye it’s just that those parallels and references make me a little bit uneasy. but also like what is the experience of reading this kind of a webcomic without patience, i guess
but i don’t think that destroys my argument that she’s a better parallel to marco rubio than donald trump, tho
wait actually robin had a tiny hands phase
wtf she is the trump analogue here
Only a little. You’ll note how she can finish sentences without starting them over several times.
this is true. she also has considerably less wrinkles
it’s just kind of that she is the only Republican political candidate given screentime, so i guess she kind of has to be all of them????
the mind boggles
Does it help that her political career (in SP!) was originally a Sarah Palin parody?
IT DOES actually it makes A TON OF SENSE
Boy, am I the only one who REALLY doesn’t agree with the super-serious readings of Robin? She’s comedically irresponsible and selfish, but she’s not an abuser.
Consider this: Amber/Amazigirl tried to beat a girl up for underage drinking. And it was bad, because she was a flawed character. But nobody decided Amber was a Bad Person. Nobody has demanded that Amber stop interacting with Sal because she’s abusive.
Robin is a closeted lesbian congresswoman in a district that doesn’t want her to exist. Kinda weird how there’s absolutely no sympathy for her in that. The worst thing she’s done is commit acts of political cowardice. The most recent terrible thing she’s done is break into someone’s house and camp out there to avoid media who want to crucify her.
Robin is irresponsible. She is desperately avoiding responsibility. That’s pretty much the extent of her sins. And yes, they are sins. It is very bad that Robin has been so irresponsible. But, y’know, look at the title of the webcomic, guys.
1) Robin’s bisexual, not a lesbian.
2) Abuse is still abuse if it isn’t intentional.
3) Robin’s irresponsible selfishness caused her to vote for a bill that would have made thousands of already vulnerable LGBT+ people even more vulnerable. The fact that it didn’t pass doesn’t negate how far beyond “oopsie” that goes.
4) Breaking into someone’s home and climbing into their bed, then refusing to leave is pretty messed up.
5) If you read Robin more light-hearted than other people, that’s still fine. There’s no reason to be condescending about it though.
idk like: you define an abuser by their actions, which are abusive.
what Robin has done: invaded someone’s home without their consent, refused to leave, and repeatedly gaslighted that person to try and force them to let them stay. all of these are abusive actions.
regardless of whether or not Robin is a closeted lesbian congresswoman, these things would still be wrong. a person’s identity doesn’t make it okay for them to do bad things. if what she wanted to do was to avoid responsibility, she is perfectly free to go on the lam in a rental car or the like, which would have the benefit of having much less reporters and camerapeople. instead she’s setting up her office on leslie’s couch while she has two perfectly good homes she can use free of charge.
that’s what makes robin abusive, because she is abusing the power and social dynamics between her and leslie.
No. No. She is a Congresswoman. In case you don’t remember, the actual worst thing she’s DONE is, among other things, vote for a bill that targets the civil rights of gay people.
You don’t get to play the “avoiding responsibility”-depseration and “hiding from swarming scary anti-LGBT media” cards when you are an elected member of the House of Representatives and you know damn well that your pandering votes support practices that are indefensible. And avoiding responsibility is avoiding OWNING that these practices are indefensible. Pretending they are fine. Pretending no one gets hurt. Pretending Leslie wants her there instead of desperately trying to make her leave even at the expense of a homeless girl when you could be hiding in your own homes or ANYWHERE ELSE in the world.
Robin is horrible. You don’t get to have a coming of age story at this stage of a political career and have it be as cheered as Joyce’s when your past actions already have a body count. If Robin is redeemed she will have to walk into the reality for the rest of her life that her actions have let vulnerable people be targeted, murdered, and stripped of their personhood because she wanted to make nice with a bunch of hicks. That doesn’t go away. You don’t get to “learn and grow” from that without completely overhauling the wacky hijinks that are masking just how awful this whole thing is.
“Nobody said Amber was a Bad Person.”
Um. UM. I did, actually, though you’re simplifying things dramatically. I said she was doing racist shit. Because she was. To the extent I don’t get too harsh with Amber, a large part of it was on her youth. A defense the congresswoman lacks.
Kind of confused… did she just crash at her place, or did they actually have sex yet?
The alt text is fucking hysterical to me, as a gal who had to explain the theological weaknesses of pokemon to her mother to be allowed to continue to play.