it’s phil donnelly’s fault for pulling me into a gijoe discussion and keeping my eye off the site which apparently rendered tonight’s strip into the “uncategorized” subsection and not as a comic
damn you phil donnelly
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Heh, great title
Considering the clocklike regularity of this site’s posting, I am amazed this is the first technical glitch I have seen.
Willis was too busy arguing on Twitter to notice something was wrong.
THIS ELECTION IS RUINING EVERYTHING /s
I voted last week, just a wait for the results now. Makes the whole thing less stressful.
THANKS, OBAMA!
Wait…
Heh, good point.
“Yeah, thanks for maintaining our democracy, first African American President.”
That word, you people keep using it but I don’t think it means what you think it means. =P
The US is a Republic with democratic noises but the Electoral College system and super delegates kinda puts the kibosh on anything resembling a democracy.
Semantic nonsense.
It’s a democracy. And a republic.
A representative democracy, as opposed to a direct one, which is the distinction you’re trying to make, but still a democracy.
I wonder why this is such a constant refrain, she asked, pretending she did not know about the Republicans and the Democrats.
Speaking as a dual citizen, Americans have a lot more democracy that you might think.
“BUT HE STOLE ALL OUR GUNS!!
I mean, I still got mine, but…”
God I fucking wish.
I’m rather fond of the things, but it’d be nice if the folks who whine about legislation would put a sock in it.
Is that why she hasn’t shown up yet?
Thanks, Obama!
:V
I am going to soend the rest of the day not looking that bible passage up
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts,”
See, told you, one just has to mention they aren’t going to look the passage up and someone runs and grabs it for you. Never said I wasn’t going to read it.
Once again, Lady Love gets a free pass. I told you God ships it.
It is interesting the way the sexually immoral are diferentiated from adulterers and homosexuals. “So, yeah, homosexual acts aren’t immoral or anything, just wcked”. Having seen some tighter translations from Greek, I wonder how accurate this particular translation is?
Also, I love the way idolators are thrown into that mix, just for good measure.
A quick google search, followed by a slightly longer google search, indicates that we can’t be absolutely certain whether Paul was actually talking about homosexual behavior. Apparently the specific meaning of the greek word he used was lost to history. Interestingly, the word used in the text WASN’T the greek words relating to homosexual behavior, certainly not for the “submit to or perform homosexual acts” cited in the New International Version Text above.
The same specific word (Arsenokoitai) has also been said to be referencing Pimps, Pagan male religious prostitutes, and masturbators. It was the King James bible that assigned the original word the specific definition of “effeminates”, later homosexuals in the New King James.
That sounds about right, a lot of people have suffered based on particularly biased translations.
The onethat I’ve heard is most likely is that it refers to pedophilia. I’m too tired to remember the full argument. But it was more convincing than the alternatives.
On the other hand, an alternate argument suggests that Paul is referencing Leviticus (at least a greek translation) as arsenokoitai could be translated “man-bed” or perhaps “man-lie”, as in you shall not lie with a man as you would with a woman.
It bothers me no end how many times remived we are from the original text, despite both dead languages it is recorded in being effectively preserved.
Oh, sure, give a free pass to _women_ who perform homosexual acts. Cis male privilege…
Wait…
oh, don’t look down then
Why not? I am not allergic to Biblical passages. My nonVampirian status is firmly established.
That’s exactly what a vampire would say.
Yes, it is, isn’t it?
“What garlic? I love garlic. I eat it all the time. Why would you even ask that?”
Lovin’ the title!
huh, post, but slightly out of order, and no image. weird. is this what it looks like when you have to fix the queue?
Tonight’s debate broke the Internet, apparently
Been having problems with sites for the past few hours- think you’re right.
I hate that it still says 12:01 when it was clearly way later, or broken….
Maybe the server hosting the posts just has to stop time and take a breather some times, especially on days like this that are plagued with the worst the world has to offer… *cough cough* trump debate *cough*
As a debate, it was interesting watching a fascist finally reveal himself to the world.
“Finally”? I’m sorry, have you not been paying attention over the past year or
They are both Fascists.
One is an in your face blowhard with no window dressing.
The other one is clothed in old-school political attire and a white suite, sort of like that other chosen one from movie history, Anikin was his name I think.
The blowhard likes to use Anakin’s catchphrase.
I’m a little buttmad about that myself.
Sorry, I gave the internet to somebody the other day, I guess they decided to keep it for themselves.
*prays to mighty Willis*
You want Willis to notice you? Have you been paying any attention to how he treats his characters?
The Willis is one of those gods you want to evade or propitiate. Don’t ask for help.
Yup. I prayed to him for the comic to show up (it was originally just the title) and it did! Besides, I’m his current favorite so that means I have an obligation to cause mischief so others can get away with comparatively minor infractions 😉
Willis went to the Greek school on how to be a god, “Create as much drama as possible.”
just made me think of the goblins comic where forgath prays to the dm of the game.
“Oh, praise thee, mighty Herbert, who doth bring free Cheez-puffs to the table every week for his players. Let thy blessing be upon us, in our hour of need.”
*sacrifices chicken bones and some tweets*
*Looks at the boneless chicken*
That looks like Cows cousin.
Nah, couldn’t be him.
He was lost in the Lava Park after that kite tug-o-war contest went Dali.
This looks like a job for Super Cow!
NO ES SUFICIENTE VACA!
No no no! You misunderstood the text. It’s not “sacrifice a chicken and tweets”, it’s “tweet while doing the funky chicken”. A common mistake as The Tome of Damn You is written in a hybrid language of English and Cybertronix.
We joke about this, but ten bucks says that within a hundred years of Willis’s death it becomes a legit religion encountered by aliens on a fringe human colony, with all the comic characters being patrons of one thing or another in a pantheon.
…
Then again Mike would probably fill role of pantheon trickster.
Imagine taking the way people argue and disagree about the characters in this comic and mixing in the way that kind of thing goes down with religious beliefs…
um. what.
ugh, don’t think I can sit up and wait for it to fix
well, my prepared comment wasn’t that great anyway
What happens!?!?!?!? You must tell us!
fine
“Was that, ‘Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men,’ or was it, ‘Thou shalt not play Pokémon GO while driving‘?”
The original text said men who have sex with children… The translation fits that better than men with men
I am both intrigued and distressed – what if the comic is a godsend after tonight’s debate and we’re missing it? OR what if the comic is heart-wrenching and the real godsend is the technical difficulty?
the debate has fried me pls send help in the form of this comic update
it’s here! real comment now: ethan i feel you hardcore here. guess who stopped pretending to be straight again WHOOPS
hey man you do you. or whoever makes you happy.
Well, actually I did find a perfectly good boyfriend lying around that someone just threw away. Can you believe that?
maybe its batteries died?
also hi classic dora
“Man, that’s a real shame when folks be throwing away a perfectly good [boyfriend] like that.”
Better Off Dead. Didn’t even need to click the link.
“Sure hope you picked him up, would be such a shame to pass up.”
wait….. gender bent chobits maybe?
If it means we can get CLAMP-style DOA fanart, YES ABSOLUTELY.
but who would be the fancy persocom where his….. lever is an off on button.
Well that doesn’t sound practical at all. Perhaps a soft push reset button on the end?
I’m guessing 1 Corinthians 6:9 isn’t just “Nice.”
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
The hacked Muzak says Either you HAVE Eagles or you NEED them.
Huh, how come people ignore that Jesus himself foregave wrongdoers anyway?
I’s been ages since I’ve read the bible. Is there any mention of what the guy next to him on the cross had done?
Yes, actually.
Matthew 27:38: Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right, another on his left.
Luke 23:39-43:
39 Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.”
40 The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 41 And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 He replied to him, “Amen I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise.”
The latter is often referred in Catholic doctrine as The Penitent Thief, or The Good Thief.
The realistic response to the first thief would have been “Aaaaaarghhh!”.
Hm, I’m only just barely remember something I only sort of heard once, but wasn’t there a thing where the word(s) used to describe those crucified with him could potentially be more correctly translated as something along the lines of “rebels” or people trying to overthrow the state/government or was that complete bullshit? I should probably just google this…
I wonder if he was any good at somersaults…
Your Avatar is perfect for this.
Nope. As follows:
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men
Oop, ninja’d.
If I remember it correctly, it’s something about “sinners don’t inherit heaven so here’s a list of bigoted things that constitute a sinner”
But what’s the reference to Reese Witherspoon?
In Cruel Intentions she is the pure Joyce-like girl they want to seduce because they are assholes.
Y’know, if Amber were in Today instead of… whenever… she could use the PokeMon Go Plus and catch a CRAZY number of Pidgeys and hatch all the eggs.
It might look odd to see her wearing the bracelet over the gloves, but maybe she could work it into the costumes design.
She is in today. They are always in today. (give or take ~3 months)
The clocks and calendars in-comic move normally, but the synchronicity with real-world current events, pop culture, technology, etc all re-sync with the real world every day.
I got this strip 10 minutes later than I normally do, and have come to the conclusion that the earth is slowly growing, increasing the time difference between me and Willis.
sure Willis gives an explantation in the description, but I’m fairly certain he’s part of the conspiracy.
The difference in time between the surface of the earth and the core is something like 10minutes.
Maybe Willis sits at the centre of the earth like some Doug McClure figure stranded there, lording it over his minions?
Sounds about right
Ah yes, a bible verse and a movie from 1999. Two things that this nonreligious teenage girl would totally be comfortable name dropping in casual conversation. Write what you know.
Well, let’s say some bible verses tend to stick in some people’s minds for some reason or other.
And what’s wrong with liking movies made before your time?
Why do Christians memorize the locations of Bible verses anyway?
Because then they can “paraphrase” it to mean something entirely different out of context. /joking /mostly
I mean it’s definitely a thing that happens, but whatever, it’s not even like that’s a religious exclusive thing let alone a “Christian bible verse location” relevant thing.
*buries face in hands*
Amber is Catholic.
Amber spent the entire summer defending Ethan from religious-based homophobia. It’s specifically why she was so cranky about Joyce. She’s going to know her anti-gay Scripture.
And Cruel Intentions is on television like every five minutes.
but sure
bruh you can’t expect us to remember all the little things about your characters. i need the cliffsnotes or something
If someone doesn’t remember all the little things about my characters, then maybe they shouldn’t be trying to lecture me on them.
aight, i hear you. but uh, how bout them cliffsnotes?
Forgetting she’s Catholic is one thing, but it is definitely reasonable to think people would remember Amber helped Ethan deal with homophobia because it is the ENTIRE REASON she is taking a break from him at the beginning. It’s informed their interactions the entire strip, and since their relationship is a major one for both of them, I think its reasonable to expect people to remember that.
Ethan is Jewish, and all the New Testament stuff doesn’t quite apply to his situation vs his family. That’s like quoting anti-gay stuff from the Qran to Becky. For Amber to have this quotation at the ready means that she would have had to shield Ethan from christian bigotry as well, which makes me wonder who that might have been. Her mother?
Ethan’s mother is also Jewish. But he does not live in a vacuum. He lives in Indiana, and his entire community/environment is overwhelmingly Christian. There is more than one Mary in this world.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/coercing/
Well of course he doesn’t live in a vacuum… unless…
…no, wait, I have seen Ethan and Batman in the same room together, so that can’t be right.
I though Sal was Batman.
There’s more than one Mary? Gods, let them not meet, for if so, we are all surely doomed.
Forgive my memory, but has it been mentioned anywhere in the comic that Amber is Catholic? I’m not sure I remember such an instance.
Admittedly it does seem like a very specific retort that she’s prepared.
It’s been Word of Willis multiple times, but no, not in DoA anywhere, far as I can tell.
…she’s Catholic, too?
So she really is just Female version of Me. Fuck.
Please do not attack your neighbors in a Wal-Mart parking lot
Do Catholics memorize Bible verse locations, though? I’d been under the impression that that was a Protestant (and Evangelical, in particular) thing.
Context: I’m a religious Jew, and while there are Torah (Bible) lines I could quote, I don’t know what chapter or verse number they are. Likewise, when I talk about Torah with other religious Jews, we quote the lines themselves.
She may not have memorized that verse and number if other bigots didn’t fling that line at Ethan a lot, but she also may have during youth group/sunday school/bible study/whatever Catholic folks do. Some people have a memory for that kind of thing.
A) She’s said she got into numerous fights with people while defending Ethan’s sexuality – shot in the dark, some of them threw this quote at them.
B) Okay, seriously people, kids these days are not THAT movie illiterate. Video stores, movie channels, netflix and other subscription channels, the internet, parents or friends owning a copy. We have the capacity to check out old shit. Being a teenager does not bar her from having seen this movie.
Video…stores?
Stores that primarily exist to sell movies?
Like Amazon.com!
Don’t worry they still had them in Michigan when I visited last summer with nary a redbox to be seen!!
I feel old.
Shot in the dark B2- OK, it is a slightly obscure movie reference. Chances are, that means Amber and Ethan have watched it together.
Complete agreement on Point B. I had someone try to make me feel old a little while back by laughing that I thought teens would know who Kirk and Spock are, but
a.) the reboots, people!
b.) it is easier today than at literally any other point in the past to engage with media from “before your time”. Most of Trek is available on Netflix right now. (I don’t know if Enterprise is or not, so “most”.)
Right cause people never watch old movies of their own volition. And parents never make you watch old movies to expand your cultural knowledge. Sure. Yeah.
look, DUMBO was “before my time” but I know that fucker
Mozart et al were before everyone’s time but you can still listen to/be interested in their work
I….. dont know the person or show that she mentioned in the last panel…..
Fortunately, you have access to a wonderful tool known simply as ‘Google.’
Plus someone explained the reference above; as suggested by context, it’s an archetypical ‘innocent Christian girl’ character.
And for when you’re feeling sarcastic…
Wait, how slowly does in-comic time progress, exactly?
Let’s see… I think Friday was October 1st, which makes today October 4th.
You are correct. By comic time, it’s Oct. 4th.
There’s a chart detailing the passage of time in the comic floating around somewhere on tumblr. I would dig it up for you but I have no idea how to go about finding it, so if anyone wants to volunteer…?
There is a somewhat out of date one on Walkypedia. Dunno about Tumblr.
By that, we are now on Monday morning on the 38th day of the term, so the sixth week of the term. Can’t say the exact day of the month because comic book time, but early October.
Here y’go: http://dumbingofage.tumblr.com/post/150276603607/rocktavian-so-amazi-girls-one-month-ago#notes
And thank you, @ Slart for pointing that out. I’ll fix it later.
Beat ya to it.
Hey, that just means less work for the admins today. Thanks!
Someone should post something every year when the comic day coincides with the real day so we can celebrate.
The comic proceeds at the speed of light, but as you get nearer the speed of light time slows to a crawl.
Amber nooo don’t start getting cranky with Ethan
Wow, the Dumbiverse had Pokemon Go six whole years before we got it!
Wow, you’ve never read #6 on the Read Before Posting page!
oh lets see if i can remember the basics.
time is a bit wibbly wobbly in the dumbiverse. as in while it started back then current stuff is always going to be applicable even if it wasn’t technically when the comic started applicable.
“Willing suspension of disbelief” — a willingness to suspend one’s critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; a sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment.
Term coined 200 years ago by philosopher/poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge.
Google it sometime.
I don’t have a legitimate response but wanted to throw in another 6 here for devil jokes!
Yes, I have. Years ago. When this strip started.
I just wanted to be one of the cool kids and make another joke about the sliding timething.
Like how I joke about Willis not changing comics in the buffer to piss off trolls?
btw, I don’t consider myself to be cool, so if that’s your target, don’t be like me.
See, I know that this is strictly speaking not the case, because webcomic time, but still. Somehow I’m entirely unfazed by Amber playing Pokemon Go in the current strip/the current day, but although I know how time works here and everything, it still felt weird to read that she was playing it before the comic even started.
Amber stop being a butt. I started liking you again dangit.
On one hand I think Amber has always wanted Ethan to be happy, but then I think there’s definitely a part of her that wants him to have a boyfriend because if he does then that means she can let go of her feelings for him, kinda like how Danny thought Ethan finding a boyfriend would thus prevent him from feeling the dreaded bisexuality.
That, and speaking from experience, but I think Amber kind of relies on having a certain amount of control. Ethan is supposed to find a boyfriend because that’s what she wants him to do (can’t wait for some jackass to pipe in with “aha it’s because she’s inherently an abuser lol”).
I’m wondering if Ethan’s comment in panel 2 sounded too much like he was about to suggest she stop being Amazi-Girl
That’s what I thought too, especially combined with Amber’s face in the third panel.
That, and it justifies everything that she went through, trying to defend him. Him pretending to be straight again says* “Ha ha, you did all that for nothing!”
*well, it says that in Messed-Up Headspace, anyway.
Honestly I do think that bitterness is fair from Amber in a “feelings happen” kind of way. It’s something she shouldn’t express to Ethan, but I think it’s okay for her to be annoyed by that.
I want a portal to ‘Messed-Up Headspace’.
(it can’t be worse…)
aha it’s because she’s… struggling with the baggage given to her by her abusive father and is clinging to survival mechanisms that allowed her to survive his constant abuse, but which have become somewhat toxic when allowed to enter into a more healthy and free environment and are keeping her from reaching out for necessary help as well as friendly checks on when she’s on a bad road.
Sorry… I’m not good at the jackass hurtful oversimplification thing.
goshdarnit cerberus you ruined my strawman
Gave him a
braindiploma?Don’t worry, I’m sure there’ll be a proper jackass along any second now.
Well she ain’t no crow.
I wanted to make a joke about the irony of Amber encouraging Ethan to get a BF considering his main male interest is currently her ex, but everything my brain threw at me is insensitive to and disrespectful of one or more of the parties involved, so I’m just gonna sit here sipping my tea and fantasize about the inevitable comical / painful drama that will follow all of this build.
I think that once Amber’s calmed down a little more, and if she were to find out about Danny and Ethan’s interest in each other, especially when it turns out she’s the “reason” they won’t date, then she’d actively try to push them together to somehow atone for her inherent vileness as a person and in the hopes that they would realize that she’s shit and abandon her.
I honestly have no idea what I expect her to do. I think it all depends on the how and when she finds out about their mutual pining*.
If she’s in a good headspace (well, good by her standards anyway), I think she can rationally decide to let them know she’s okay with it (even though she probably would still have a lot of not-okay feelings about it, because feelings are not as simple as breaking up and being over it immediately.)
If she’s in a not-so-good headspace when she finds out… Well I don’t really want to think about how much pain she’ll be in for obvious reasons.
I do think that in the end, they’ll be together and she’ll be okay with it, but the question is how they get there and how long it takes them.
*Is pining too strong a word for Danny and Ethan’s feelings about each other? I’m not all too familiar with its connotations yet.
The way I view Danny and Ethan is that they both would date each other, but because Amber is important to them they don’t want to date each other at the moment, and are fine with just being attracted to each other right now.
Like I guess *I* wouldn’t call it pining because I think saying that means they actively want to be together but must put their eternal love on hold for that shrill harpy, buuuuut there is definitely a whole lot of interest and chemistry, combined with both guys being still on shaky grounds with their sexualities, both being the first man to ever express attraction to one another and being a really safe and comfortable place to explore this new aspect of themselves their still wrapping their heads around, that it’s more than just as simple as “meh i’m interested in you but whatevs lol.”
It’s times like this that made me realize my whole “I’m bi” experience was decidedly uneventful. Less of a lightbulb and more of a candle slowly phasing into existence, and then heating up a water balloon.
As for Amber, I’m hoping by the time they do pursue each other that she’s pulling for it because she wants them to be happy, rather than “I’m shit and must be forgotten” the way I think she’d take it now.
I wonder if these three might work best as a triangle. Not necessarily in threesomes…
Some of us certainly hope for it, though who knows if Danny has the libido to keep up with both of them.
Of course, we should keep in mind that Mike is poised to fuck the whole situation, starting with Ethan.
WIllis, I just finished a bottle of vodka / post presidential debate discussion, and I gots to have the end to Ethan’s arc in this story, you 4 panel a day bastard.
I haven’t counted or set up a database, but Willis usually has 5+ panels per day, according to my general impression.
considering it is the same length regardless of panels is panels such a big concern?
I mean, do more things happen in a strip with seven panels than in a strip with three panels?
Presumably, that would be why there needed to be more panels
More stuff happening and/or things being said
i do imagine some of the panels with more talking you can cut out some background like a few days ago there were no desks. Idk maybe im wrong.
I was being rethorical. :3
Yes, but what if there were no rhetorical questions?
Well, then we wouldn’t have any ironic responses.
But if he doesn’t memorize a Bible verse how else will he escape the spider’s curse?
John 11;35. ‘Jesus wept’. Bam, done.
genesis 1 1. in the beginning god created the heavens and the earth….. thats it thats all i got for verse and where you find it.
The part about hiding his sexuality doesn’t offend me ( especially since I’m a complete straight male so I wouldn’t understand) no the part that pisses me about Ethen character is that people use his sexuality constantly as a “get out blame free pass” whenever it comes to defending his infidelity BS.
Also no I’m not letting this go, especially knowing where the situation is going and the hell with anyone for thinking I would.
Okay I must be seriously forgetting something here – what infidelity?
That’s a very good question. Has he been cheating on the no one that he’s currently in a committed relationship with?
Oh I don’t know maybe the part where he told agreed to Joyce’s suggestion converting himself to be straight only to come on to come on to her “brother” only a week and a half later into their relationship.
Or Maybe it’s the fact he’s been getting really too close to his ex-girlfriends current flame right after convincing her that he’s going back into the closet, almost to the point it doesn’t seem platonic anymore.
I got to spell check more if I’m not relying on autocorrect any more.
Well first, Danny and Amber are broken up, and Joyce and Ethan’s relationship was always a complete and utter sham.
Second, Ethan is so bloody devoted to Amber’s feelings that he not only blames himself for traumatizing her for coming out on prom, but he’s absolutely refused to consider dating Danny because Amber is so important to him. Having a crush on her now-ex makes him about as unfaithful as Danny having a crush on Ethan.
It wasn’t a shame to Joyce, from the beginning she thought every bit of that was real even after she found out. If he wanted a cover up girlfriend so he can live out his life as a homosexual in secret then he shouldn’t have lied and take advantage of a girl in the most sleazeball way possible in the first place.
And as for Danny and Ethan’s undying Devotion to Amber, well fuck I wonder how long it will take for him to hold on to that. Hopefully long enough so he won’t end up losing when he inevitably ends up being the one making the first move on Danny before Amber probably considers getting back together with him.
No more excuses, fuck him !
Dude come on. I’m the one who’s supposed to be unfairly judgemental about Danny/Ethan. You’re stealing my thunder here.
Anyway, Ethan and Joyce used each other. They were being terrible for fairly strong reasons and now they both recognize this. Ethan was being a total scumbag at first by leading her on without saying anything, yes, but then when they both knew he chose to pursue it anyway, and it’s over.
And, well, we don’t know how the Danny/Amber/Ethan situation is going to play out. I think it’s inevitable that Danny and Ethan get together, but I’m reasonably convinced it’s not going to be Ethan going “fuck you Amber, Danny’s mine now because you took your eyes off him for too long.”
I definitely want Amber and Danny to at least talk things over before anything progresses, and I think Ethan jumping Danny without any kind of consideration for Amber would make him a terrible garbage human being but that’s not what’s gonna friggin’ happen.
Like, I genuinely cannot think of any narrative involving two queer dudes and a mentally ill lady where thing didn’t go “She’s crazy and should fuck off. Let’s bone and be perfect queers” and I’m so fucking happy DoA didn’t do that with Danny and Ethan because Amber is actually really important to the both of them.
While we’ve literally seen absolutely nothing that suggests that Ethan is incapable of restraining himself, their undying devotion to Amber is causing them to do something (not date) which they are under absolutely no obligation to do.
Amber having dated Danny doesn’t make him permanently off-limits. Amber and Danny are broken up. That they’re not dating to spare her feelings is really sweet of them, but not something they are in any way morally obligated to do, certainly not forever.
I’m also having a very hard time seeing anything objectionable happening between Ethan and Jocelyne that you could possibly be talking about. All they ever did was chat for a bit, and at one point Ethan blushed.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/nope/
There is no rational way to twist that to look like infidelity without first assuming a frighteningly unreasonable expectation for how relationships work
Not actual infidelity – Jocelyne wasn’t interested and Ethan probably isn’t confident enough to move that quickly even in the best of circumstances, but he did ignore Joyce and start chatting up Jocelyne. Blatantly enough that Joss realized it.
I expect it was intended to say more about how he really couldn’t take his relationship with Joyce seriously despite his best intentions than about his being unfaithful or anything like that.
Yes, how dare he be both friendly to people and find them attractive.
Seriously, he has at no point acted on those attractions. Hell, he never even flirted. Being attracted to someone is not infidelity. Not fleeing from someone you’re hanging out with because you realize they’re attractive is also not infidelity.
Are you gonna bring up Jacob, too? He totally made eyes at him a couple times. Might be harboring an unsanctioned boner there. Better send in the inspection team and make sure he’s got a permit for that. Wouldn’t want Ethan to end up a homewrecker due to his constant “finding other men attractive”
I don’t see him flirting with Jacob and I feel like with Jocelyn if he was right about her being gay and not trans he would have went after him in a heartbeat.
He may have been attracted to Joss but I don’t think he flirted with her. He was polite, expressed interest in her job and major. But it wasn’t like he said “hey wanna hook up behind your sister’s back?”. He was most definitely attracted to her, but Ethan has more control over his impulses then to just go RIGHT AT HER if she were in fact gay instead of trans. Ethan would at LEAST break up with Joyce and be honest with her. As for Danny, they have a mutual attraction and arguably more ‘flirting’ then he and Joss, and even then they have both agreed not to hook up for Amber’s sake.
So…yeah. He didn’t oogle Joss, or grab her ass, or kiss her. He didn’t really flirt with her. And he and Danny only have a mutual attraction. So unless you have some interesting definitions for infidelity…he hasn’t really been unfaithful.
A mutual attraction you can guarantee he won’t be the first one to act upon when he unevadably tries to hook up with Danny despite Ambers feelings ?
I bet you he’ll be the one to make the first move.
But nothing’s happened yet! The only thing we know is that Danny and Ethan have an attraction to each other, one they would likely have even if Danny and Amber were still together and solved all their problems.
Ok Spencer, I’ll give him a benefit of a doubt but I’m waiting.
So you’re basically blaming Ethan for something he hasn’t done yet. That makes sense.
He was starting to flirt with her. And he focused entirely on her from the moment Joyce introduced him.
He didn’t ask her to hook up, but he did ask if she was gay, which seems a reasonable first step in the process. Not much point in asking to hook up, once she said no.
He asked that in response to Jocelyne saying she’s her family’s favorite because they know the least about her. Staying in the closet to avoid family problems seems like something that Ethan would have recognized.
Not to mention how badly Ethan needed to meet someone with similar experiences to his. I had read it as him hoping to simply connect and compare notes with a fellow closeted gay person seeing as he had exactly zero non-hetero friends at the time who could truly understand what he was going through.
Reading that entire sequence for subtext, starting when they first meet and Joyce says “Ethan only has eyes for me”, while Ethan’s staring into Jocelyne’s, I can’t see it any other way.
It’s not “I’d like to talk with the possibly gay person and compare notes.” It’s “I want that.” Same kind of reaction Ethan’s given to other attractive guys.
I doubt he’d have really blatantly acted on it – he’s not forward enough, but definitely ignoring Joyce and making relatively subtle overtures.
Your feelings do not seem to be based on any kind of evidence or the character’s past behavior.
My evidence seems to be being used against me in a counter argument in order to reduce my argument to nothing but speculation.
What evidence?
Where have we seen Ethan cheat on anyone? When have we seen him be dishonest about anything other than him being gay? When have we seen him do anything he knew would hurt Amber’s or Joyce’s feelings?
When have we see him even make a move on someone he was actually attracted to?
Your argument IS nothing but speculation.
You have no evidence, only assumptions.
This thread, wow.
I’ve said it before, everyone had that one character that they don’t like, that they feel is irredeemable. And there are those that feel that same character can be redeemed. Fear for when the twain shall meet, for naught but fire shall consume all.
I just tried to get “Bittersweet Symphony” stuck in my head, and, damn, it will not start up. Hell, it just did yer basic record scratch and skipped to XTC’s “Greenman.”
XTC is one fine band. Let’s hear it for the Swindon Massive!
I ALWAYS have Bitter Sweet Symphony stuck in my head.
.
And I like it.
Allen Klein’s lawyers file an injunction against the hacked muzak
Comic Reactions:
Panel 1: I’ve made the argument before that Amber is still stuck in the past in a lot of ways, haunted by her dad in a visceral way and this makes that clearer.
As Ethan notes in the next panel, she doesn’t need that excuse anymore, but she clings to it as she clings to a lot of moments of the past and is a bit unstuck in time. Which makes sense. She has massive untreated PTSD from her years of abuse and her dad violently reinserting himself into her life and feels haunted by a number of ghosts of her past, constantly flashbacking to various traumatic moments.
And it’s also a sign of the headspace she’s trapped in where she feels she can’t reach out for the support she needs, because too much of her is invested in these patterns of concealment.
Panel 3: I’m very fascinated by her expression. Like yeah, 98% of it is side eye at the “be yourself” line from Ethan who has only recently broken out of a Mike-induced panic about being himself.
But I dunno, there’s a quality to her left eye that makes me wonder if part of the dismay is that currently, the alters have decided to rationalize AG’s bad behavior as a sign of Amber’s continued worthlessness. And so I wonder if Amber’s thinking “why would I want to be myself, when I’m shit”. Part of rationalizing disappearing more for AG, the golden alter.
Cerberus, this is gonna sound weird, but you appeared in a dream I had a couple nights ago, you looked like Carla, but you called yourself Cerberus and we were at a bar, I honestly have no idea what we talked about.
You were with Cerberus, who looked like Carla, while at a bar. Does what you talked about really matter?
Man, I am not liking Amber that much lately, she’s been being a real piece of…something, lately.
(Haha, this comment goes along with my self-esteem that’s in the gutter)
I’m sure you’re perfectly fine. Unless you’re a vigilante who’s stalking minorities. And may be abusing people around you. I should probably shut up now…
I want her to find out that Ethan likes her ex so bad now! It would be an interesting storyline. How would Amber react? Would she find out somehow from a third party like Jacob or would it be Ethan or Danny who opened up? How would Ethan and Danny react to the events? How would their parents react!?! We know how Ethan’s parents feel about him being gay, but what about Danny’s? How would both feel about each of their sons having the other as a boyfriend? Would the pairs of parents get into a huge argument or have a united front against their children’s choices? Since Danny didn’t even know what bi was, odds are his parents don’t or they think it doesn’t exist (a lot of people think you can only be gay or straight) so that would be a conversation. And will they connect the dots as Amber (her alter anyway but she did introduce herself to his parents) being the link between the two and somehow turning both boys gay/bi?
If Danny’s parents don’t know from bisexuality, they will interpret it as he is gay, always was gay, and that is why things went bad with Dorothy.
That’s what I’m hoping which means they might have a big blowout with Ethan’s parents while Danny tries to assert that he is bi and there is a difference while mom yells she loves her gay son and supports him and then tells him he can quit trying to cover now because he’s a bad liar XD
I wouldn’t count on Danny’s parents being supportive. They talk to Danny the way the comments section does and that’s massively messed up.
The comments section of three years ago, maybe. The comments section of now tends to fall all over itself in support of him.
I know. That’s what worries me. I hope that they will be supportive, but at the same time they could be a bigotry volcano. Perhaps they always suspected that he was gay because of some gay stereotype which explains why they were so happy that he had a girlfriend – any girlfriend – to keep him from “turning gay”. There are so many ways it could go.
My parents are bigots. My biological mother was a Christian who tried to “fix” me after years of me arguing with preachers and Sunday School Teachers all the way back to one if my earliest memories. She screamed at the school and forced them to separate me from my best friend because she found out he was black. I kicked her abusive, pill popping, gambling, con artist (but somehow still super Christian) ass out of my life a few months after I turned 18 (that’s a story for another day). I considered my mamaw to be my mother and still do years after her death.
My father is an atheist, but refuses to call himself that because he has this terrible caricature in his head on what they are which is some cross between hard core antitheist and Jehovah’s Witnesses going door to door telling people how God doesn’t exist and here is why only somehow evil (something instilled by a lot of churches here). When I told him I wasn’t a Christian, he was supportive. When I told him I was an atheist, he blew up saying that I wasn’t and I was never to call myself that again. When I told him I was bisexual, he threw a fit saying I wasn’t, that I was straight, that I was to never talk about that gay shit in his house, and that we would pretend like it never happened. Anytime I express attraction (words, sound, or facial expression) to a female (even if it’s in agreement of his reaction to a female on tv) or react to things that come on when he’s watching the news that are LGBT related, he blows up at me. He’s sexist too meaning he and his grandsons (by my sister) can talk about sex/attraction or say a string of cuss words and it’s okay, but I do the same and it’s not even if it’s to a lesser degree. He insults females a lot even political figures saying stuff like Hillary Clinton is such an ugly bongo and probably has a dick. He’s even sexist towards the trans community saying he has no problem with transmen, but transwomen are discussing and terrible (and some much worse things I won’t repeat. He also uses the N word a lot and other racist language and such which pisses me off.
So I’m hoping that Danny’s parents don’t turn into (well meaning but still terrible) bigotry volcanos, but it’s a coin toss.
“Bigotry Volcano” is the name of my next Nihilist Metal cover band.
Lol! I would be honored 🙂
So female to male, he’s fine with, but male to female, not? Wow, just wow.
Also, I think a fair portion of my family are a bit bigoted as well. At the least, they had seemed both surprised, and kinda relieved, when it turned out that I had a girlfriend.
Pretty much yeah. A transman to him is fine regardless of rather they choose to have surgery or not, but a transwoman (please don’t hurt me. this is his belief not mine) is either a dude in drag (pre op) or someone who had their dick chopped off so they must have something mentally wrong with them. Yet he surprised the hell out of me for the better when he called the whole bathroom issue stupid. He’s not the easiest person to peg down on where he stands on issues although he currently hopes whoever wins the election drops dead after becoming official so one of the VP can take over because he hates Trump and Clinton both (he would rather it be Hillary who wins then dies because he likes her VP more out of the two).
Oh god. I bet that was a shocker to see their reactions. I wonder what they would have done if it had turned out you were homosexual or trans*?
Possible a fair amount of “I knew it!” going around.
Though something throughout all of it I do find funny was this: it was a couple of weeks after we had started dating, and that was when my parents and grandparents had found out (I was staying with my grandparents at the time). My mother was about to drive away, and motioned me over to her van. She leans over (I was on the passenger side), and whispers to me, “I hear you have a girlfriend?” So I lean over, and whisper back, “Why are we whispering?”
I smiled, straightened up and waved her off goodbye.
Love it
It was like saying it outloud would suddenly make it not real.
I suspect his parents will be perfectly accepting, but still want to be sure he latches on to a good partner (male or female), because that’s the only way he’s going to get anywhere. Not bigotry, but horrible in other ways.
At least we know Ethan being Jewish will most likely not be an issue for them as Dorothy was atheist and they loved her.
I think it’s sad how easily I could picture Danny’s mother doing that.
Prediction: Ethan’s mom will accuse Amber of somehow turning any man she dates gay and use Danny as further “proof”. I also hope Danny will have to explain what bisexuality means to parents at some point.
Or that.
I didn’t until the alt text, Willis.
funny thing is I never get earworms stuck in my head that people intend to put there… I think they thrive off unintention
I might have too…… if i knew what that was.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/verve/bittersweetsymphony.html
I’m not sure why Bittersweet Symphony is supposed to be stuck in my head. Is that song I haven’t heard from that movie I haven’t seen or something?
Yes. As I recall, the song plays during the climax/denouement a the villainess is publicly humiliated and over the end credits as well.
It was kind of a big deal at the time, relatively speaking. I think.
After some research, my mental timeline was wrong.
The song is by a British band called The Verve. It was released in 97 and charted high there and relatively well in the US in 98. The movie came out in 99, though.
I was 11-12 at the time, so it was mostly just an “I recognize this!” kind of thing.
I was a bit older, and so, while I do recall the song, I’m mostly thinking of Sarah Michelle Gellar lounging all over things and/or making out with Selma Blair.
From this comment, I’m assuming you don’t live in the US. It was one of those inescapable mega-hits in the late 90’s and is still frequently used in media today.
It’s become shorthand for “poignant, bittersweet moment” in movies and TV. I didn’t see “Cruel Intentions” either, so I’m assuming that’s the case here as well.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtDG_u0ZdAE" title="Damn you Phil Donnelly!"
Whoops, I tried to make a thing and it didn’t work. How do you make hyperlinks here?
See if this comes out right.
The Comments RSS says you posted:
<a href=”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtDG_u0ZdAE” title=”Damn you Phil Donnelly!”
You probably wanted to post:
<a href=”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtDG_u0ZdAE” title=”Damn you Phil Donnelly!”>Clever main text stuff</a>
Clever main text stuff
Still not right, because the ”Damn you Phil Donnelly!” alt-text doesn’t show up right.
Clever main text stuff using straight double quote marks, not slanty or curly ones.
<a href=”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtDG_u0ZdAE” title=”Damn you Phil Donnelly!”>Clever main text stuff</a> using straight double quote marks, not slanty or curly ones.
I mean they are technically different characters even if “smart replacement” would have you believe otherwise.
I’d rant about how awful they are except that I think it was one of my best friends who invented the algorithm for using them etext.
I hope you’re talking about how terrible straight quotes are 😛
…I was going to make a joke about sexuality, but eh, whatever.
Panel 4: It makes sense why this would hurt Amber even if she realizes her hurt feelings shouldn’t be dumped on Ethan. I mean, she fought tooth and nail for Ethan, for a full summer against an awful awful pile of human scum in his mother for him to begin his college life out and then he immediately retreated back into the closet when her back was turned.
And probably harder for her to take is that afterwards, he turned to his recent ex to reconnect him with the queer community instead of her. So to her, it probably feels like one more sign that Amber isn’t good enough. She tries her best to fight for someone and it doesn’t take, only for someone else with less capabilities to do even more than she was in a much shorter time.
Not to mention that comic where she breaks down crying because he was willing to pretend to be straight for Joyce but not for her.
And yeah, she shouldn’t be getting shirty with him about it, because Ethan didn’t owe her a smooth coming out process and has shown gratitude for what she did to help him. But feelings are feelings and they’re definitely hurt in this case.
Panel 5: That said, low blow Amber. Low blow.
Panel 6: *happy clap for Ethan’s speech* Yes! I know it’s just a rhetorical dodge on his part, but I love any reminder that one’s orientation is not delegitimized by one’s lack of experience or experience. I see it happen all the time to bi/pan folks I know and it happens in a weird way to ace folk as well where being in a relationship means people feel comfortable dismissing your aceness.
Also, ah, 1 Corinthians 6:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6
Otherwise known as Mr. Late to the Party Paul goes on an extended homophobic/whorephobic rant. Also, damn you Willis for reminding me that movie exists. Ugh, now my brain is playing all the worst parts. You are evil, Willis. Down right evil.
Panels all: Also, I can’t ignore the elephant in the room that is Amber’s avoidance strategy because I’m really worried about it. I mean, yes, it makes sense that she would seek to avoid uncomfortable conversations, cause yeah. But there’s a difference between avoidance and going on the attack and well…
Amber kinda does a bit of the latter here. Ethan in Panel 2 makes a strong point about her being able to build a new life where she’s not the scared little kid keeping it all bottled up inside. Where she can build something healthy and open and honest. Where she has support for her mental illnesses instead of coping on her own.
And to avoid that conversation she moves the topic to one where she can keep Ethan on the defensive about his mistakes or things he feels awkward in order to get him to drop the topic and not want to return down this avenue of conversation again.
And that’s… not good. That’s a really bad way to communicate and treat friends and if unchecked could lead to her repeating abusive patterns more and more. Especially as we’ve seen that infection already occur with AG’s interactions at points.
I was very excited she got off one bad road and now I’m a bit worried that she’s on another.
You make a lot of good points. I think it’s problematic for an ally to sort of say, “well, your coming out experience must completely match my ideas, which I can’t relate to seeing as I haven’t experienced what you have”. Which really rubbed me the wrong way.
But it makes sense. Others have mentioned that with Ethan, in a way Amber feels some sort of control. Like, Ethan is a huge part of her life that she feels she done right by him, while everything else is falling apart, and Ethan is kind of ruining that by going off on his own journey, and not the one that she has emotionally tied herself to. It’s more complicated because she has/had feelings that she has been running away from, but it’s still strange that they are related to “ownership” of Ethan’s affection. Ethan has to travel his journey his own way, not the way Amber thinks he should.
I, too hope that she eventually confronts at least some of the feelings she’s been avoiding. Ethan is right: As unfair as it is, at some point it is only up to us to save ourselves (with whatever help we can get), especially since our abusers sure as hell won’t be the ones to fix the mess they made. Being stuck in the past, complicated by disorders like PTSD, is not going to make our relationships and interactions easier or more meaningful.
I would agree that it’s problematic for an ally to make a coming out process about them. I’m more noting the hurt feelings for the effort and time she did put in in support.
But yeah, in no way did Ethan “owe” her a smooth coming out process in “gratitude” to her actions.
That said, I think Ethan does appreciate the effort and support and wants to support Amber similarly from the position of ally to her mental health struggles.
Agreed with all of the above (and particularly your detailed reaction to panel 4).
Problem with your very last para: AG doesn’t think she needs any support (except in the sense of someone telling her she’s right, she’s always right), and Amber doesn’t think she deserves any.
Very true.
So, anyways, here’s Wonderwall.
I think you droped this.
Way to fill the overlap for Pokemon Go and teen thrillers.
That’s a very odd venn diagram. Well, there’s odder.
I completely agree with panel 1 Amber. It IS a godsend that she is out there doing things – physical things, even – as AMBER, not AMAZI-GIRL.
the only thing that bothers me about mentioning Pokemon Go is the fact that uh, isn’t it still like 2010 in the strip’s setting?
Eternal present.
Like this it sounds awesome and terrifying
And, like, always getting presents! Awesome!
“The now of wolf thought”
howl
#6
http://www.dumbingofage.com/about/
I didn’t realize just how badly you needed that on there… (I mean I knew, but like… come on, people, I had some faith in you)
funny thing is.. in a couple of months (comic time) the questions are gonna be like: “Why are the gathering for a theory class, like, in the same room at the same time?”
🙂 go go massive online courses!! lets get home colleged!!
lol. ” a couple of months.”
Well, if that is DoA internal time, we are talking about the mid 2020s…
See the really telling thing is I can’t tell if this was meant in a “too soon” or “too late” manner…
I’m extremely skeptical that the planet’s major institutions will have predominantly finished restructuring themselves entirely in the space of a mere 3 decades! I am pretty sure that won’t come up in-comic until and unless Willis’ child runs the thing as a zombie legacy strip.
Fair ’nuff.
I had kept in mind how you’ve mentioned how slow time moves in the strip, but that’s my mistake. Keep up the good work! =)
Wait, so it’s not “Next Sunday, A.D.”?
Why does this feel like a slow building calm before the storm moment?
Because it involves Amber and she’s violently unstable and she’s started severing connections to stabalizing forces?
Well let’s take a tally.
Amber is the emotional equivalent to a flaming steam engine barreling towards a schoolhouse. Any small thing that hits a nerve has the chance to send her spiraling into a hole of negativity, self-hatred, and often violence.
Danny, her recent ex whom she thinks is in cahoots with Sal, is concerned for her mental health while also realizing that he’s gay for Ethan. Amber doesn’t know this and thinks he still loves Amazi-Girl.
Ethan, her lifelong friend who rejected her, is finally coming to terms with the fact that he’s gay. He doesn’t yet know how self-destructive Amber has become and would certainly take it badly if he knew how many times she’s needlessly risked death this month alone. Also, he thinks Danny is cute.
….Yep, you’re right. This whole situation is a nuclear warhead waiting for a trigger. The fact that she brought up Danny dating is just the first ill omen.
I want Amber to bludgeon Microsoft into doing the Right Thing about Minecraft.
Like if you have a multicore CPU, Minecraft uses -one core-.
And if you have a fancy GPU, Minecraft ignores it and makes the CPU do most of the work.
This is the New Millennium guys!
Is it a good or a bad thing that I’ve never seen Cruel Intentions?
You should read the original book Les Intentions Cruelles.
You’ve not experienced it until you have read it in the original Klingon?
Do not anger the god of this comic, people. For he is mighty and will strike you down with a furious vengeance!
Like asking how they have Pokemon Go in 2010…
Oh shush straight girl. Ethan doesn’t owe you anything when it comes to his personal coming out story regardless of how you helped him in the summer before hand.
But I think you’re perhaps channeling the ‘Amazi Girl is immune to criticism’ thing hardcore mode since Danny so you say whatever first comes to mind from your mouth with no filter I guess.
I don’t think Ethan is an irony free zone when it come to conversations about lifestyle choices with the close friend and former girlfriend he led on for years so she would be his unwitting beard (I know there should be a truckload of hyphens there, but meh)
/Blinks/ Was Ethan even fully aware he was gay before the prom night incident? Honestly I’m SGA and the mental gymnastics you go through means it can sometimes even be a secret to /yourself/ for a long ass time until something breaks the illusion for you. In shortpacked it took Robin yelling in his face for him to get it. Wouldn’t surprise me if it only fully clicked just before or during Prom. (Also we have no idea how long they dated so…ideas of being lead on for ‘years’ makes me roll my eyes- Amber even yells ‘He Didn’t know then!!!” to Mike when he brings it up to stop her looking at her phone ages ago. So no: not years at all).
Plus like I said mental gymnastics probably happened for Ethan anyway: Amber was the girl he was closest too so he must be ‘attracted’ to her right? I mean she’s one of the few girls he can be close to and feels happy with. If Amber was a beard she was probably fooling Ethan himself too for a bit. As he if only subconsciously was clinging onto any examples of heterosexuality desperately.
I get Amber needed space with regards her feelings after all this mess but yeah what she’s saying is still utter bs for her to say.
Amber doesn’t get to give any kind of shit about how Ethan came out either way. I mean it’s kind of a bit shitty either way but she’s a straight cis woman so it gets under my skin more than a little. I’m just willing to give her some leeway because she’s in a crappy head space probably. But bullshit from straight people in bad headspaces is still bullshit from straight people. /shrugs/
You are assuming a lot of things in order to make Amber in the wrong. Most of them undermined by Ethan’s admission that he was pretending to be straight “again”.
As Ethan pointed out, Ethan, not Amber, he reverted to his previous behaviour at the first opportunity in University. And that he had done it before, for a much longer period.
Plus, just because it is critisism doesn’t mean it is “bullshit”. Ethan is clearly interested in a large number of the attractive men he comes into contact with. He, himself wants a relationship. As his closest friend, Amber is in a position to know this and free as free to question what she sees as his mistakes, in the same way he is free to critisise what he sees as hers.
Just because you can understand Ethan’s motives, doesn’t make them the right choice. For himself or others.
Ethan’s attempt to suppress his homosexuality (and to, once again, use an inexperienced young woman as his beard) was a mistake, one that could have had a dire effect on his own mental well being.
Ethan’s desire to form relationships is not in question, nor is his homosexuality, nor is his self sabotage by forming relationships with women.
Amber’s onservations are valid and her bind with Ethan is as clear as it is close.
It was wrong for Ethan to use Joyce, but remember that Joyce was also using Ethan. She knew he was gay. He believed, at the time, that having a beard would make him safe or even make him “normal” again. Additionally, this is the kind of community where Becky was almost murdered by her dad for being gay. For a lot of people, it’s definitely not as simple as “Be yourself, and everything will be fine!” Cause people be themselves, and are harassed and murdered for it.
Yes, it’s the best thing for your soul to be true to yourself, but it doesn’t mean that has to happen right away or the way that others think you should. There are people who didn’t come out or even realize they were queer until their 30s. That’s the problem I have with Amber saying that as stated above. Even if she wasn’t straight, she has no right to tell Ethan what he should be feeling as a gay man, or any right to give him shit for what she imagined his coming out would be like not happening because it doesn’t satisfy her rigid and flawed sense of morality.
So perhaps rather than being hypocritical, Ethan is coming from experience when he tells Amber that it might be best not to hide behind the past when it comes to figuring out who she is as a person. We should also keep in mind that Ethan, although semi-closeted is WAY more well adjusted than Amber and Amber is in a really bad place right now. Her trying to point out Ethan is being hypocritical is not helping her in anyway, which is one of the points that Ethan is trying to make.
Dude it’s something that was in the comic that Ethan didn’t know that he was gay before the prom so your previous comment was utterly wrong with regards Amber. Amber literally said he hadn’t known until Prom night. End of.
And with regards Joyce well Mav got it. Joyce used Ethan just as much.
Hell I’d say people have more right to be angry at Joyce then Ethan in that scenario. But like /I/ can’t get angry at either of them myself. But just looking logically at the facts… um. Joyce was trying to ‘fix’ a self hating gay man. Jesus Christ. That is a million times more messed up then trying to use someone as a ‘beard’ or not telling someone you’re gay while engaging in pretend het shenanigans (as if they’re owed that), and which Ethan… told her anyway? She went into that fully with her eyes open after what a day or so of ‘dating’? Sure at Amber’s prompting to tell her (but I have issues with that already, Ethan should just have thought to break up with her if anything, he wouldn’t have to give an explanation why but well… he spilled the beans and got /that/ from Joyce). So yeah. Joyce took advantage. It’s understandable /why/ but yep.
I can understand why Joyce did the things she did though too on a certain level and I’m glad she came around. If anything I was like Joyce once and treated myself like she treated Ethan.The Ethan/Joyce relationship is probably the sum of me as a younger person. Not healthy, but pretty desperate and understandable.
But she was still literally trying to ‘fix’ a gay man who hated himself for being gay. It’s probably the most messed up thing Joyce has ever done in this comic. Ethan was trying to run away from what he was because of his family and society.
Like I’ll reiterate: I can understand why she did it given the awful things which almost happened to her but like if we have to put the blame on only one person (for whatever reason, it baffles me to think it’s 100% only one person’s blame because it was a /super/ messy situation, or hell we should really utterly despise either one at all in it completely forever: because feelings), it probably more lies at /Joyce’s/ feet then Ethan’s really.
Also: being true to yourself is nice but like dude, I will possibly never be able to come out to certain people because I have the fear of disownment/ being put through corrective therapy by extended family members so. Y’know. There’s that. It’s kind of an empty platitude sometimes. It’s nice to be true to yourself but for some folks it’s not a realistic option at all. And Ethan is coming around now anyway- like he said here it was like two weeks their time tops.
Plus all these kids are fucking 18 so….
Amber asking if he has a boyfriend and mocking him is really really bullshit. It just is. And I think it mostly speaks to her headspace right now. Amber will redeem herself eventually. It just doesn’t stop the fact it’s bs now.
He consented to dating Joyce. I don’t think she gets the full blame for that relationship.
The argument that he puts himself in danger by coming out because he is already out to the people who would be most likely to be dangerous. UI is much safer.
Edit: The argument that he puts himself in danger by coming out doesn’t make sense because he is already out to the people who would be most likely to be dangerous. UI is much safer.
I didn’t even imply Joyce had ‘full blame’ It’s just between the two- it baffles me there aren’t more people raging at Joyce in comparison to Ethan in the situation. Joyce was trying to fix a self hating gay man. That is worse than being the said self hating gay man who decides to see if he can be ‘fixed’ basically. It was a messy situation: because feelings and Joye’s situation but that was their relationship boiled down to the bare bones.
Thankfully, Joyce saw the truth and what she was doing was godawful.
And like his mother was holding onto hope he’d get ‘fixed’ and knew about Joyce. Tbh he’s kind of back in the closet again with regards the parents as far as I can tell. Also honestly when you’re trans or SGA there’s never just one time you ‘come out’ unless you’re a celeb and splash it across the media. You kind of come out of the closet many many times (if you do at all) in your life.
Also Universities really aren’t all that safe. Maybe relatively safer but…Nah. Like I did come out to other students but I never could go into the club scene. I was too terrified of being discovered by less savory people. You’re never 100% safe. IU after all: includes people who thought like Joyce did just as all universities do, and some of them are a lot more violent then Joyce would be.
Okay, that is two people that ignored what I said. I was gonna break it down, but since you seem to be dealing with some unpleasant types elsewhere, I will just keave you with these:
1. You just asserted that Amber’s take on Ethan’s self realisation is less relevent than Ethan’s, because something Amber said about it is more true than Ethan’s own take.
2. In that final panel, Ethan is quoting something he, himself, doesn’t believe and Amber is calling him on it.
I just wanted to say that I had to go look up SGA. I took me a while to figure out what of the many acronyms that fits to get what you meant. Anyway, I done learned something new today, so thanks for that.
And?
Ooooooph, gotta love the “straight white people can’t have opinions” bit.
Nah they can have opinions but they’re automatically worth less on certain issues for very obvious reasons. Like if you’re a straight person who tries to speak over a gay person on certain issues is pretty much a dick end of story. Same if a white person speaks over a black person on the issues. Amber is being an utter prick here. Nice try though.
Bull.
Fucking.
Shit.
The idea that any one person’s ideas are less than another’s with the ONLY basis being that they’re not “as involved” is fucking cancerous at best.
I can tell I’ve already blown my top, so I’m going to leave it at that.
What Heather is saying is that being a part of a group and experiencing that stuff first hand does inform more than being outside it.
For example, when Roz was mewling about how Joyce was ignoring the plight of gay people while her gay teacher was telling her to knock that shit off.
If straight white dudes’ opinions on this topic were worthless then we wouldn’t be reading Dumbing of Age.
Exactly, which is why comments like Heather’s piss me off.
I’m not agreeing with you.
Your opinion isn’t worthless, but it’s not the place of a straight dude to say “nah don’t be offended by that bro” to a queer dude.
Funny, because what you’re saying proves my point. Y’all need to read my words very carefully- if your ONLY basis for saying someone’s opinion is worth less is that they haven’t had the same experiences, you are factually fucking wrong. Period. End of discussion. I’m torn between my desire to elaborate and my knowledge that I’m typing while angry, but the latter wins out so I won’t unless someone asks and I’m in a better mood.
Urgh, already in a better mood and therefore already regretting how I’ve been handling this discussion. I’m just gonna say sorry, and agree to disagree with y’all rather than potentially end up throwing another temper tantrum.
I think I got what you’re saying, but I’m a cis-straight male, so my opinion worthless on it, I think.
Man, if Willis was talking about how it’s pretty great to be Trans, the gays don’t experience any oppression, we live in a matriarchy, and aren’t Christians the most persecuted minority in Merika (note the lack of qualifier of religious, just to make it better), I’d be pretty comfortable saying his opinions are worth less than mine, and that being a straight white dude in a majority christian country
Part of what makes Willis’ opinions on these things actually valuable is that he’s repeating the opinions of /others/ who suffer from various issues. More or less verbatim in some cases. Because a lot of folks of various minority statuses feel they can actually trust him to do right, and talk to him. It’s a reputation he’s built up over like, a decade, at least.
and /that/ still doesn’t mean he can talk over people (Or more accurately, should. Given that he has a real platform, he absolutely CAN, but he exercises his radical freedom to /not/ do so, IME). And where I’ve seen him having… I’m going to say yoofs (even if I don’t actually know that) saying stuff, either he doesn’t say anything, or… just quotes the people who told him that this was a good thing, and why.
Also, given your diction stressing… no, that is actually, factually what makes someone’s opinion worth less. Not worthless, but worth less.
Pretty much Spencer. Like I have my own complicated opinions on the Roz thing but it is a good example.
A gay guy’s/lesbian’s opinions on the topic of homophobia will outrank a straight woman’s every time. Like a straight and cis person in general can be an ally naturally, but /sometimes/ that’s about being quiet, listening and learning from people who actually go through what is going down and what needs to be done instead of just assuming. Allies don’t get to make the LGBT group about them or what they think.
They are like support.
Willis is mainly pretty self aware in general about it all really. (I think there was even alt text with that Roz/Leslie comic about how he was a straight dude writing this). Even he can slip up because he’s human but overall I think if he was pulling majorly questionable shit and was unaware he’d learn from the experience. Willis does try overall.
If you can’t understand why someone who actually suffers from certain forms of bigotry’s own opinions on the subject generally matter more than someone from a group who systematically /benefits/ from said bigotry’s existence, and call such a fact ‘cancerous’ I don’t even know what to say.
Straight people /do not /get the last say on whether something is homophobic or not if gay people disagree. The person in power /does not/ get to define whether bigotry happened. Though they certainly can try: a lot.
And perhaps you should rethink certain words like ‘cancerous’.
Not all opinions are equal and valid. Because of experience. Because of different stakes.
But yeah I guess we should just leave it here.
Yeah, pretty much. I occasionally get salty when I see yoofs who respond to a scientific paper like “this is something they could have known if they’d just actually listened to us” (they /were/, that’s why they went out of their way to secure grant money and spend their time and energy looking into whatever it is they looked into. If they weren’t taking you seriously, there wouldn’t be a paper. Part of the fucking point is to measure the extent and give y’all ammunition on a policy level.), but yeah, as a rule, the majority do a bang-up job of ignoring the problems of minorities, and this is pretty much always true. So you know, their opinions on the problems of any given minority just don’t matter as much.
She’s got a point. I like Spencer’s way of putting it better, since I think his explanation of why she’s upset as well as why she should keep it to herself is spot on.
Its understandable that she wanted to be the one to help her best friend out of the closet, and help him be comfortable with himself. It doesn’t help that Joyce was able to do that after knowing him only a few weeks, or how both that and the preceding sham relationship feed directly into Amber’s belief that she is worthless.
But while it’s totally understandable that she feels a bit hurt and bitter about her lack of a part in out it, Ethan’s coming out was about Ethan, and he needed to do it when and how he was comfortable, even if he made mistakes on the way. The important part is that he did, and is happier for it.
The right thing to do would have been to keep those feelings to herself, or at least acknowledge that they’re irrational. She’s quite understandably not in a good place to realize this, but that doesn’t change the fact that she ought to just be happy for him and get off his case about it
He was already out, though.
Not at college he wasn’t.
And of course, though she can’t see it (because Amber is worthless and horrible and never does anything good), she did play a role. He likely would have had far more trouble getting to the place he’s at without her support over the summer. Despite the backsliding.
So, was today the day Willis had to link to #6 the most? Or was it the Jurassic world reference the one? Thinkin’ about it, the Jurassic World reference should have clued more people in that we’re in the present
Is anyone else getting sketchy “conglaturations you are random lucky winner” type redirect ads on the main page? I’m getting one in Chrome on iOS that must have snuck its way in. (Sorry David I’m not on Twitter, so this is the best way I could think of to report it.)
God Amber you’re just a complete ass aren’t you?
Oh yes how dare she or anyone else call out and acuse the innocent Eathen of any sort of hypocrisy for not doing anything he’s preaching.
Eathen is Ethan’s separated-at-birth who is into pretentious poetry instead of Transformers.
(He and the lost Walkerton triplet were adopted by the late Duke and Duchess of Thingley.)
Oh shut up the comparison she’s making is ridiculous not to mention it still doesn’t justify her belligerently sticking her nose into his sex life. Honestly, I kinda hope he and Danny hook up just because it’d be a hilarious display of karmic backlash for this bullshittery of hers.
Obviously being a crabby jerkass means you deserve your best friend going around your back to fuck your ex.
Ehhh, it’s not even being a crabby jackass, but being a nosy jackass getting into people’s sex lives. At that point, the sex life you’re encouraging biting you in the ass in some way is, if not karma, going to be considered generally ironic
Gods, this corner of the comments section has a fair amount of vitriol going on.
I don’t even know why that’s a response to me. That wasn’t vitriolic. That was me repeating Spencer’s own diction back, which wasn’t particularly vitriolic either.
Eh, was just continuing down the single thread. It was the earlier parts of it that truly were.
Why is anyone friends with Amber again?
Ethan because they grew up together, Dorothy because she’s making assumptions about her behaviour.
Also maybe because she’s a good person? It’s not like Amber’s the only person on the planet who acts like an asshole when she’s in a bad mood.
She’s not really. She’s more of a neutral force looking for outlets for her violent behaviour right now. With development she could be a good person but I wouldn’t say she’s there right now.
so she´s “bad cop” pretending to be lawful?
She’s being a crabass, yes, but she IS a good person.
She’s just under a lot of stress, is not getting enough sleep. I’m sure she would agree with you though
She brutally assaults people on a regular basis for petty crimes, she stalked and harassed Sal every chance she got, she lowkey abused Danny further exacerbating his already horrible sense of self worth. She’s not a good person.
Oh yes, she definitely does that. Like that time she , so undeserved.
Or that time she , real brutal.
Man, it was so horrible of her to .
Please and thank you, straight-up murder I hear.
Man, I can’t even keep up with the rest of this BS so .
Oh, wait, hold the phone, don’t forget your petty crimes addendum!
Man,
The only time she has EVER even TRIED to hurt someone for a petty crime was just using Sal drinking underage as an EXCUSE to fight her for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. She harassed Sal because she has SERIOUS ISSUES that are partially Sal’s fault, and did not have the ABILITY to see past her POST TRAUMATIC STRESS because of Sal’s actions so long ago.
Her “abuse” of Danny boils down to a few times when she said some things that she REGRETTED IMMEDIATELY because of her MASSIVE FUCKING PILE OF ISSUES.
Um, no, she has absolutely assaulted people for petty fucking crimes. Like vandalism. She absolutely started fights there (“but she didn’t throw a punch” No, and that’s irrelevant, both ethically and legally, because in both cases she threatened them with violence. She started a fight in each case).
Like, Sal was the worst, and was more harrassment, but Sal was not the only recipient. And I suspect it was more than just 3 vandals (in 2 seperate incidents), just as I suspect she’s (somehow, given the considerably lower incidence of robbery on major campuses) stopped more than like 5 robbers in 2 months.
And you know, there’s the thief she beat ‘yesterday’ (In comic) so badly that the onlookers were visibly shocked and disconcerted. Amazi-girl’s issues don’t even really begin with Sal. They begin with her dad. Sal’s just a tiny link in the chain – and one that has already been punished (not that that actually helps, but).
So, that was…articulate?
Lailah, that “thief” was HER ABUSIVE SHITHOLE FATHER, if you didn’t pick up on that.
I’m so glad that it’s midnight, I want to be done with this inane bullshit.
Time for All New Inane Bullshit™?
Hopefully not.
Um, no. No, you fucking asshole. That thief was some random guy. That’s why I said ‘thief’, not ‘fucking blaine’.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/03-when-god-closes-the-door/pleasure/
Maybe you and your buddy shouldn’t be sanctimonious assholes about details if you’re not going to have the courtesy to fucking remember them.
I’m just here for the fish. Or were you talking to someone else?
Oh, I had forgotten that particular incident. My apologies, but people were freaking the fuck out about the Blaine thing so I assumed that you were referring to that. Especially considering your choice of phrase- Amazi-Girl did not “beat the thief so badly that onlookers were shocked and blah blah blah”, she punched him once in the face which was kind of surprising to people. A “beating” at the very least typically refers to… you know, more than a single blow.
Look, we’ve both been pretty stupid about this whole thing. I suggest you leave it behind you, ‘cuz that’s what I’m doing.
I even specified that it was yesterday, in comic time. jfc.
Christ, I can always fucking count on this place to give me my dosage of shitting on the mentally ill.
“Ask your doctor if Dumbing Of Age is right for you.”
bwaa
Mental illness is not an excuse for harmful behaviour. You don’t get to hurt people just because you’re hurting that’s not how it works you still have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
You mean like she’s doing right now?
Because she’s made it clear that she blames herself for everything that went down with Danny, and she told Ethan when he was still dating Joyce that she understood why she needed him and that she was terrible for exploding at her.
Seriously if there’s one thing Amber’s good at it’s making herself feel like shit.
It is a bit odd being immune to anyone criticism but your own.
She is absolutely not ‘taking responsibility for her actions’ right now. Like, this is the opposite of that. She (sort of) /was last night/, to a very limited degree, and on exactly one issue, but she is not in her last few comics, and it’s exactly one thing she’s started to engage with.
Now to be clear, it’s probably the one I care the most about, because she perpetuated the deepest harm (Danny seems to have bounced back from her, what, two-off? abuse – it’s her paranoia that fucked him up a bit more fierce), and I am, on the whole, happy with /amber/.
The other elephant in the room of course, being that AMAZI-GIRL has not really taken responsibility for her actions – if anything, she’s fobbed it off on Amber (Bullshit you’re protecting Sal, AG). And yeah, I sorta doubt Emily gives a fuck about that distinction, so there’s that. But Amber (and AG) have really not started touching everything, and the thing Amber’s doing in this strip? It’s not something /anyone/ has ever addressed in-comic. In fairness, Amber’s kinda low-key about it on the whole, but it still means she’s not likely to recognize what she’s been doing is actually kinda shitty in this specific regard too.
I get /why/ she does it, and she’s allowed to feel that way, but the stuff she seems to do because of that motivation.. not so much.
Calling someone neutral with the potential to be good is not shitting on them.
I think she’s a good person on the inside. She’s being really rude right now, though. She’s been really rude to a couple people lately. I’ve never been a fan of the whole “rudeness disguised as friendly banter thing.” This is because I’ve dealt with way too many “friends/family” who were/are just abusive assholes on the DL and using me as their emotional outlet. This is my rule: Don’t be rude or disrespectful. Even if you’re “joking”. I have very low tolerance for that shit now, especially because I can just hang around folks who treat me with respect anyway, which sadly I’ve only just discovered after many years on this planet. Predictably, I don’t tend to hang around ultra sarcastic people.
If you’re in a bad mood constantly then that’s just being an asshole.
Yeah I wonder what would motivate Amber being in a bad mood right now.
Like going through a catastrophic mental breakdown.
Or pushing away someone she cares about out of a paranoid delusion that she’s now convinced is for his own sake.
Or living on the same floor as someone who’s presence causes her panic attacks.
Amber is in pain. She is suffering constantly because of a series of extremely unfortunate events triggering a depressive spiral that has led to her completely throwing out her own self worth because of her childhood under an abusive father and PTSD from a hostage situation.
So what if she’s a little snappy? The absolute worst thing she’s done is try and pick a fight with Sal- and if we weren’t invested in Sal as a character just as much as the rest of the cast, who among us could truthfully say that they’d still care? I sure as hell wouldn’t, because I’d see it as a revenge arc. I wouldn’t be thinking about Sal’s upbringing, her history of issues with authority, or her arrest and eventual release. I’d be thinking “Hell yes, Batman finally caught up with Joe Chill!” (Although in most senses, Amber’s father is probably the bigger Joe Chill in the story… I suppose he could also fit the role of Joker? Maybe? Joker is the best example of a Batman nemesis right?) That may not- does not -excuse her actions in the event, but it does provide insight into why that event ever happened. Sal was a villain in her past, and she’s the superhero- so Sal must still be the villain, because that’s how it works. And that’s not just one of Amber’s many delusions- it might just say something about me, but if I was to see a bully from way back in middle school this year, shopping at a Wal-Mart or some shit like that, I wouldn’t be considering the idea that maybe he reformed. I’d see him as that asshole who made tiny, twelve-year-old me want to kill someone. I wouldn’t go as far as picking a fight with him, but of course I don’t have an athletic, combat-ready alter ego fueled by rage and years of abuse.
The point is, Amber is the farthest fucking thing from a bad person. She’s a good person, a great person even, who has been deluded into thinking that she’s not. She has no sense of self-worth and a ridiculously unhealthy dose of rage, and that will always translate to self-loathing. Self-loathing is not a fun thing to have, let me tell you.
If she comes off as a little abrasive, it’s not because she’s an asshole.
Not to mention, where the hell did a comment like that come from on THIS? She’s not being a bongo, she’s not being evil, she’s having a chat with her best friend about something he’s readily acknowledged as a mistake due to his blatantly hypocritical comment. (I’m not entirely sure if it fits the definition of hypocritical now that he’s addressed it, but I also don’t know the word for “comment that would have been hypocritical if it had been made a week prior”, so…)
After the first two or three times running across pricks from middle school in public and finding that they turned out okay, it gets a lot easier to set aside the loathing in favor if wondering who they’ve become.
It’s easier to hate than understand?
Seriously. If this is the crankiest she gets today, I’d say she’s doing an impressive job keeping it together.
Most of the cast is good people, but that question comes up a lot and strikes me as valid for pretty much all of them.
I’m 60% sure it’s the same reason they’re friends with Mike.
And now I’m imagining Mike inserting himself into Cruel Intentions and punching out Ryan Phillippe every 5 minutes, because he believes in love, or whatever.
That’d probably make me more likely to watch it.
Go back and see if Danny’s up for a date, Nathan. If so, fuck him until his eyes bug the instant he consents.
Ethan.
I’m sorry, I’m just picturing Nathan Fillion inflicting ahegao on Danny and I can’t stop chuckling
This is what I get for posting tired.
Eh, it’s alright.
David, absolutely love your writing! You got real talent! But — you gotta fix the dratted roads in Indiana. Took a recent road trip across 7 states, and man, I-70 in Indiana SUCKS!!!! Just thought you’d like to know……
Wait, so Willis’s pictures look like reality because reality imitates his art, instead of the other way around?
Yes. Willis is the One True Omnipotence, and His Word Is Law.
All hail the Mighty Willis, He Who Makes Us Feel.
I live in indianapolis (right next to I-70 actually). Was driving north to visit friends, and thought “yup, I’m in michigan.”
Actually it was Yu-u-u-u–p-p-p-p, I-i-i-i-i’m i-i-i-in Mi-i-i-ichig-g-g-g-g-gan.
Was nearly a washboard road.
Oh dear, I can’t be certain whether she meant god-send or gods-end… Which itself is a highly ambiguous phrase. 🙂
Clearly, she’s invoking the Devine Badonk
I like “Bittersweet Symphony.” It’s a good song.
Today in horribly cruel answers Ethan would never give and I am somewhat ashamed ran through my head: “You know, I would have one, except he was your boyfriend and then ex-boyfriend. Maybe you’ll want to avoid looking the gift horse that is my lack of a sex life in the mouth.”
I would have said it. I have zero patience for straight people getting judgey about my sexuality/sex life no matter how close we may be.
Though that should really apply to any gender/orientation combination. Are you part of the relationship? No? Then bugger off.
That was a burn.
Damn you Phil Donnelly!
Haha!!! Success!
Stupid Sexy Phil!
The Drugs Don’t Work was a better song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ0n3itoII
“Cruel Intentions“? I’m assuming that’s a recently discovered unpublished Dickens novel.