I mean there are always an infinite number of possible futures but the relivant categories are rather small. Cut or cut not. Becky eventually alone or not. One binary decision. One binary outcome. Four relevant categories of futures. Need a few more for an octopus.
Haven’t you ever thought that you were the only person in the universe? That solipsism is true, and the rest of us are merely NPCs created by your imagination to populate your universe? Thus no rapture necessary; it’s been Slartibeast Buttons all the way down. 😀
“They say ‘time is the fire in which we masculinise’. Right now, Captain, my time is running out. We leave so many transitions unfinished in our lives.” — Dr. Tolian Soran, Star Trek: Generations
I am genuinely happy by how open she’s being about her feels with Dina though. Not a therapist, but somebody who loves her and is a wonderful mix of insightful and with little social filter…
I feel bad for Dina though. As someone who is socially inept, watching someone with social anxiety unspool is like watching a tornado form around someone you care about and not knowing whether you should tackle them to the ground for their protection or run to avoid becoming collateral damage.
It initially seemed to me like she was mostly stressed about her identity, in a combination of just.. general 19-year old baby queer angst and the need to be A Lesbian or all of these horrible things would have happened to her for “No reason” (If she found out she was attracted to men after all, then she would have “Never needed” to date women in the first place. At least, that’s what it feels like her brain is telling her.)
But yeah, this conversation really makes it feel like all of the shitty things that have happened to Becky over the course of her life (Fundie upbringing, Mother’s suicide, Betrayal by her roommate at her old uni, Toedad Kidnapping, Homelessness, Blaine villain plot) have just left her with a desperate need for literally everything to stay the same as it is right now, because this is the closest she’s been to being actually *happy* for a very long time.
The word of Willis informs us there are no good therapists in Indiana. Sort of like setting a story in the age before cellphones, a simple device to make things more difficult.
Sounds like two bands performing together for a charity gig. People would be trying to figure out who was in Existential Dread and who was in My Lesbian Experience.
This, or Becky just isn’t what spins her laundry. I’ve had dear friends who spark nothing in me for no apparent reason, while others I’d date in a heartbeat, assuming availability.
Either way, sucks to be Becky. Hopefully she’s well over Joyce by the time Joyce ever comes out, it’d be kinda shitty to Dina otherwise.
But I wanna note that I would agree with “it would be kinda shitty for Dina”. Crucial conjunction. It’s not something Becky is doing to Dina, so much as something that’s unfortunate and stressful for both of them.
I mean even if joyce was bi/’showed more interest in girls outside of becky i don’t know if it’d work together in a romantic sense, esp with ‘childhood friends’ tending to not work out, depends tho
Though it’s getting more common across the board! It’s been really interesting seeing a number of haircuts go from punkish when I was a kid to very queer amongst my generation to just like a way kids in elementary and middle school do their hair because they like it. General I live in a liberal bubble disclaimer, but it’s kinda cool seeing the process of that stuff working it’s way into the somewhat unisex mainstream.
it’s not as shaved on the side/too much of an undercut but isn’t it the usual ‘lesbian butch’ look that was popular for a while? (It looks fine art wise tho i was never rly fond of it looking too closely shaved but i don’t know how many guys have a similar hairstyle outside of the androgynous ones)
I finally got therapy after getting my meds right, and I am finally unpacking all the abuse I got in my childhood. Not from my parents or anybody related to me, I was abused by the DoD. Not that anybody knew, it wasn’t until somebody wanted to know why my peer group had similar rates of drug abuse, alcoholism, and imprisonment as combat veterans of the same era that it was found out (thank you nameless bureaucrat).
I tried that back in the ’80s. Nobody I submitted them to thought they were real and that was before I got killed the first time. To tell the truth, there are times when even I have a hard time believing all that could have happened to one person. I feel like a modern day Baron Munchausen.
You can get meds without going to therapy. My partner went to a single physical exam just to get the prescription, has never been to a therapist or doctor of any type since (and refuses to do so)
Ruth had group therapy when she was in the hospital, and she mentioned changing meds after the time skip, so she’s probably still seeing a medical professional.
Though that doesn’t mean she’s seeing them that much… my experience with psychiatric providers is mostly seeing them for ten minutes once every three months. Make a med change, then it’ll be a bit sooner, like a followup in one month, but then back to the regular scheduling.
IIRC Dorothy was/is in therapy but also wasn’t being open about things to her therapist because what if they came out in a presidential campaign? so it probably wasn’t helping much since she was self censoring
I know Becky’s afraid of changes, but this is a level of panic over the idea that’s usually only found in people this has happened to before. (Not saying it has to Becky, since there’s been no evidence of that. Just: oof, this should probably get unpacked in therapy instead of to Dina.)
I mean this specific “girlfriend transitioned and I’m not into her anymore” thing hasn’t happened to Becky, but she’s lost a lot of people she really cared about and Dina is pretty much her whole world at this point.
Entirely true. It just seems like she’s *really* stuck on the specific fear of Dina being trans, not just Dina leaving her or losing her in some other way
I think it’s probably both, by which I mean Becky is afraid she WOULDN’T still find Dina attractive, but also a little afraid that she WOULD.
She’s very young, too, which is just something to generally keep in mind. “Losing” your sexuality identifier can be super scary, even more so when you’re young.
I had kind of a similar crisis in my early twenties about being bi instead of a lesbian, only that wasn’t how my brain interpreted it: it was “what if I’ve been lying to myself and others about being a lesbian this whole time when I’m really straight”.
Brains can be very stupid. Societal biphobia and -erasure doesn’t help.
I definitely have had this level of panic over my lesbianism, albeit over finding a trans woman attractive (which led to a years long unpacking of transphobia and my anxiety over fluid sexuality). Therapy was useless (since not a lot of therapists are fluent in queer) but having nonjudgmental, take-no-shit friends to hash it out and finding more varied reading materials was choice. Leslie would be my go-to. Authority figure who can kinda relate, suggest readings, and just listen without being directly affected. Or the queer student group.
You know, that’s entirely fair. I *really* should’ve considered that, esp as a queer/trans person who can’t find a dang therapist in my area who’s queer-affirming. But yeah, Becky needs to unpack this with someone who isn’t directly affected. It’ll be better for her, and also better for Dina (like, if it *had* been the case that Dina was trans, imagine how devastating that degree of reaction would be to her. …Having been on the receiving end of being rejected by a partner after presenting as my real gender, that’ll fuck you up for years).
Leslie would definitely be a good person to go to, both because they have a good personal relationship and because she’s bound to have resources on hand.
How do you feel about virtual therapy/have you looked into it before? A lot more therapists offer virtual sessions now I prefer in-person, but virtual has its benefits too.
its tricky with insurance and an ever widening gap between states in terms of what the insurance is being forced to cover, and what is considered “legal”
Yeah, since the pandemic, a lot more insurances here cover telehealth therapy sessions, which is why a lot more therapists have been offering it. But it’s true that it varies by state, and I can barely keep track of the state I’m in.
It’s sad that it can be hard to find a queer-affirming therapist– like, affirming, at least, should just be the standard. But I know when I started seeing a therapist as an adult, I didn’t put much thought into the queer-affirming part (because that’s not where my issues were) and instead focused on location/availability/insurance (which can already be hard to navigate!), and the therapist I ended up seeing turned out to be really shitty with queer stuff.
When I switched therapists, I included inclusion of queer identities in my search, and my next therapist was great (and also queer themself, which I didn’t really know going in). I’ve since changed to a new therapist, who is also great and also queer. Honestly, I don’t want to go to therapy with a therapist who isn’t queer again.
One of 80,000,000 things that’s scary and frustrating right now is that people like Leslie must reasonably fear for their jobs. Even though Becky is a legal adult, talking to her about her sexuality or gender identity could put Leslie even more in the crosshairs than she already is.
Don’t obey in advance, don’t treat this stuff like it’s already settled law — but it is reasonable to be terrified of broaching a topic like this with a student.
Working in education is terrifying right now. In a majorly suckish way, I do feel kind of vindicated with people who previously had opinions about how I should approach my identity at work and didn’t understand the level of concerns I had. (That was a couple years ago now, and I’m not at the same job, but I felt how precarious it was then. Now it’s even more oomph.)
I feel you on therapists. I am the dreaded gender??? bi AFAB person in a relationship with a straight, cis man, but therapists who are not queer or at least very experienced in that area just have. A wildly different viewpoint, no matter how supportive they may be. Sigh.
(My favourite psychologist was a gay man who worked with gay and trans youth – my current psychologist is a cis, straight woman who is super competent, but probably wouldn’t be good for all my issues for the aforementioned reasons.)
Dina would be lethally cute with short hair. Becky would not survive the night if Dina gets a pixy cut or a Dorothy Hammill wedge cut. TBH I think the wedge cut would be even cuter than the pixy cut on Dina’s head shape.
The rest of the adage is if the ground is frozen, take the seed and soak it overnight, score it, and then plant it in a rooting mix in a 6″ planter tomorrow.
It’d be harder to go back from a transition tho, de-transitioning is possible tho usually kinda demonized by some ppl, but idk how much becky can handle it, tho i wonder if this is some long term foreshadowing of becky dating a trans girl
Aaw Becks… you know, when I was still figuring myself out, I was actually in a similar situation. I never identified as a lesbian, but I was trying out dating women. I noticed that my partner at the time (who identified as a woman at that point) was presenting more and more masc. Hair cut short, avoiding women’s clothes, wearing men’s, etc. And I thought to myself “does this change my feelings?” and the answer I came to for myself was… no. It didn’t. If my partner transitioned while we were together, I’d still care for him deeply. We eventually parted ways amicably, but he went on to transition and I’m very happy and proud of him for being able to live his life and his truth.
For Becky, it’s just something she has to come to grips with for herself. Only she can decide what kind of person she is and who she loves.
My therapist told me I was overthinking things. But I’ve literally made a living analyzing problems in depth so I had trouble with that. How much is the right amount of thinking, and who decides?
But, here, we may have an example.
I don’t read this as transphobic at all. The issue is that she WOULD respect Dina’s gender identity in this hypothetical scenario, but that it’d mean the ending of their relationship.
Like, there is a lot to unpack here, but she’s not being bigoted in saying this, exactly.
No issues. You aren’t responsible for who attracts you or not (those hormones, sheesh; they do their own thing). You _are_ responsible for how you behave in response to that attraction or lack thereof.
Gonna get crucified for this but… Is this actually transphobia? Aren’t we running up against “My orientation is not just a choice or lifestyle” here?
If a bi person said “I’d never date a trans person” or a straight man or gay woman said “I’d never date a trans woman” then that would be transphobia.
But if, for example, a straight man says “I’m simply not attracted to men and I wouldn’t date a person I’m not attracted to” is that homophobia? No, no it is not. So is it really transphobia if Becky says “I wouldn’t date a man, regardless of whether trans or cis”?
No, you right. Becky does not date men. Becky not dating transman!Dina would be validating Dinas identity. That is being true to both herself and Dina.
Becky has PTSD and anxiety related to the concept of identity, but she is expressing the opposite of transphobia here.
Got ghosted by someone because he realized he was only into women, and being ghosted isn’t great, but as a nonbinary person, it was fairly gender-affirming.
I think if Becky and Dina broke up because Dina discovered Dudeness™ and became incompatible with Becky’s orientation, they’d still remain BFFs. It may take an adjustment period, but these two communicate like nobody’s business, and I’m sure they could weather being “just” super-tight besties who used to fuck.
Oh yeah, the uhhhhh the crucifixion thing. Like, do you still want it or…? Cuz I guess I can, I brought the planks and nails and such, but you’re not wrong or anything, and lumber is expensive?
The good thing about hair is that it grows back after being cut. If it turns out short hair doesn’t work, just wait a few months and everything’s back to normal.
I think it slows down as you get older, i cut my bangs too short once and feels like it takes forever/nails growing back faster although i wonder how many ppl shave their head over the summer and it growing back longer the next year , might depend on the individual like how some ppl take forever to grow facial hair and ppl automatically having ‘5 o clock shadow’ within two hours of shaving XD
Dina, if you want to cut your hair, just do it. You don’t need validation from others. Now, if you can, find a local queer-owned hair salon/barber to do it.
well she’s only considering it because of becky being insecure about fluid sexualities , tho she did say it was getting in her way, so idk how often she’d trim her hair usually, other than like ethan, becky and billie i don’t know how many others have trimmed their hair so far (i guess malaya too, i know there was a joke about walky needing a haircut but idk if it’s still being grown out)
I had PTSD before PTSD was a thing, but I don’t know everything about it. Can untreated PTSD evolve into anxiety disorder? I don’t discount it because PTSD does evolve if untreated, mine evolved into depression.
I mean we know in flashbacks she saw her mom’s suicide or part of it. Toe dad didn’t seem like the kind to get her counseling or therapy. Then we had.. running away, kidnapping at gunpoint, made all her friends a target for kidnapping (Amber is partially a reason as well) then had her dad murdered. Like… if this ISNT PTSD related I’m unsure what it would be.
I think you can acknowledge that an emotional response is valid without having to agree with any of the factual/logical inaccuracies that come with it.
Good thing that I didn’t do that! I just pointed out that that there is understandable reason for why she thought this that is in line with previous characterization.
People often contrast emotions with logic and may view logic as objective/factual/absolute. And then think something making sense means it’s based in what they consider logic.
In a more empathetic way, I think a lot of people have learned in various ways that their emotions are bad, and therefore thinking that’s impacted by their emotions is likely wrong. (That doesn’t actually divorce their emotions from their thinking, of course, but some will pretend it’s not there.)
To me “Cutting your hair short will make you a man” also sounds like big residual fundamentalist gender baggage that Becky has yet to get rid of, in spite of herself having had short hair (though not that short). 🙁
Dina for sure isn’t the right person to load that onto.
You are usually right about a lot in these here comments with your breakdowns but I think you’d benefit from re-reading that panel. It was definitely just her going ‘it might unlock something in YOUR brain that shifts you that way’. I don’t think she was equating the short hair to gender identity at all.
I guess I can see that argument. It still isn’t how I read the panel, really.
My comment was definitely building off yesterday’s strip, though, where I do think Dina is kind of conflating basic gender presentation (suit, short hair) with gender identity, albeit in a way I personally find really really cute and relatable. It’s all very similar to how Dina originally confronted the question of sexuality, which I’m sure is intentional on Willis’s part — “[I’m not questioning, because] I think a better word for me would be ‘unconcerned’.” Similarly, she doesn’t seem* to have a strong binary gender identity — just a collection of vague, superficial signifiers that she knows are, societally, attached to gender identity.
“This is what you people with strong gender feelings consider ‘a man’, right?” sort of a sentiment.
I do still think Becky isn’t saying, or even thinking, that short hair would automatically make Dina a boy (as evidenced by her previous-strip last-panel punchline of “d’ya know what a pixie cut is?”), and I think Becky’s line of thinking is more likely to have been triggered by Dina actively talking about hypothetically becoming a boy (and trying to prove that Becky would still be attracted to her), and that the short hair is just an example here of Dina hypothetically shifting her gender presentation to “butch” and then finding that it really speaks to her and wanting to transition…
BUT. You are still correct that she is associating short hair (along with suit-wearing) with being a boy here, and I’m sure short hair is a generally hot-button topic in her brain for reasons of fundie brainwashing, and I’m sure she DOES still need to unpack and work on that.
* big big asterisk on Dina not seeming to have a strong sense of gender identity either way? This whole conversation is probably going to touch on that. I’m just, currently, at this point, strongly reminded of her “unconcerned” conclusion about her sexual identity.
Tbf there also has been ‘gender euphoria’ in some ppl cutting their hair short/changing the way they dress/present and realizing things about themselves too even if women keeping their hair short has been socially acceptable for years now too
Yeah, I think if you’ve always (or for a long time) felt gender dysphoria about something, it doesn’t really stand out that that’s what it is. It’s just background noise in your brain, at a point. And then you do something that changes it, and it’s like holy shit??? This feels so good???
That was me and my first experiences with binding, anyway, at which point I was still considering myself basically a girl (and was binding my chest as an ally?? idk).
utterly understandable for her though. her entire life fell apart because of her sexuality. (At least to her, it wasn’t her fault, but The Guilt is there)
From her perspective:
Her dad is dead because of her need for ladies, Mike is tangentially dead because of her. her friends were kidnapped, hurt and relationships ended because of of her. Ethan’s an Emo twunk and smooching a gangster.
If she suddenly is okay with a “Dude” then everything that happened… Happened for nothing.
Again, not her fault, not even a real truth per say, but in her head?
For sure, it’s all been forced on her because of who she is, who she is has to be eternal or else
It’s so sad how much her survival mechanism is probably gonna lead to a big freak out that blows up way too big, and how powerless Becky feels to stop these freakouts
Like even if Becky actually did try to move past this rigid mindset, I feel like she’d just do something that made her uncomfortable rather than sitting and meditating on her feelings
“A lady’s imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony, in a moment.”
Or in this case, from being in a relationship to forever alone.
Personally though, I like using the Chinese pharse in this context, 自编自导自演 (self-write self-direct self-act), i.e. coming up with the entire fiction by oneself with no basis in reality.
I’m fairly certain I’m not a lady, nor do I have anywhere near as much personal trauma as Becky(‘s backstory). I do have anxiety, though, and so I suspect that’s the most important ingredient.
I don’t mind that more people who would benefit from it are getting it now because of the reduced stigma, but as of recent, late capitalism has turned it into this fad where people are going too far in the other direction and treating therapy as some kind of panacea (9-9)
Besides the fact that therapists are by no means free of racial, sexist, queerphobic, ableist and other insensitivities and bigotries (especially the ones actually available to students attending a red state university),
as knee-jerky as it is for some people to hear,
we are not going to “wellness”, “good vibes” or “one-on-one therapy” are way out of a mental health crisis which is a direct outcome of structural and economic violence and inequality
as unfortunate as it is, without knowing or willing it, many today have been sold on this impression that therapy has some intrinsic value regardless of actual context, and basically boils down to saying,
“I don’t know how therapy actually works or what it can and can’t do, but what I do know is that it’s an easy thing to say to be dismissive of other people.” (-_-)
Still it makes a lot of sense to have the freak-out, though maybe not for something this minor and “standard genderqueer lesbian.” I internally freaked out a little when my spouse transitioned, because I wasn’t sure how I’d react since I was *sure* I was the straight in my friend group for a long time. We talked about it, and turns out I’m not, and also that the person often matters a hell of a lot more than the gender presentation… but it’s something people have to navigate.
oh, absolutely !! especially for someone who grew up with such a strict binary understanding of the world.
And thats great !! i came to the same conclusion, its more about the person, their body is just a vessel. its why i feel like pan is the closest i can come to a label. i can find myself attracted to pretty much anyone depending on who they are (altho im with becky, i much prefer girls !! XD)
I know it’s mental gymnastics to keep both these identities, but:
I know a lesbian who is happily married to a trans man.
It does not make her less lesbian or him less male.
It’s just love.
People started referring to their relationship as straight, which was meant to validate HIS gender identity. But it invalidated hers, and it shouldn’t be a competition.
Labels aren’t always rigid. They don’t have to be. Sometimes a label and the feelings behind it don’t 100% fit the literal definition of that label.
She says “i’m wired for women. i’m a dyke. but i happen to love this queer man.”
Getting your label taken away by others on a technical literal definition hurts. Sometimes we just have to live with these ambiguous realities.
She’s making an exception, love is love is love, and they’ve found it 💖 They still get to choose their own labels. If he’s only into women he may be straight, but she isn’t, she’s making an exception; they get to agree whether to label their relationship as queer.
But also, why do people need to label these things? They’re a couple. They’re hopefully cute together coz they’re loving towards each other? In which case yay! Happy relationship.
Also, “lesbian” isn’t just a descriptor, it’s a community. A community where a person might have spent a LOT of time, have a lot of connections, feel a deep sense of belonging.
And there have always been nonbinary, transmasc, and trans men who are also lesbians.
If someone else’s identity label makes you uncomfortable, consider that it’s none of your business and doesn’t actually impact you in any way. Consider that as a lesbian, you are not obligated to find all other lesbians attractive.
SOOOO THIS actually it ain’t mental gymnastics at ALL
labels are descriptive, not prescriptive, FUUUUCK the “words have meanings” bullshit
as queers, WE are the ones who make the language for our affirmation, speakers make the language, NOT the other way around
Becky thinking that she HAS to be X, Y, Z because of her lesbian identity is is very clearly a remnant of the toxic Evangelist authoritarian mindset instilled into both her and Joyce since their childhood
cut the head of a Biblical Literalist talking snake, the body still lives
Well think about it, her entire world impolded because she only likes ladies. Her mom might have offed herself for not being able to like ladies.
If her brain suddenly puts dudes back on the table, all of that stuff that happened… Never had to happen. In her head at least, her dad died, and her life fell apart, and she could possibly wind up with a dude anyway?! What’s the point of it all then?!
Now, I’m not in anyway saying it actually WOULD be her fault if she wound up bisexual, it very much was *never* her fault, but tell that to mentally anguished tween orphan.
As I mentioned up above, I went through something kind of similar in my early twenties.
The statistics SUPER do not bear out the myth that bi kids have it easier than gay kids — homophobic parents are almost always also biphobic, and sometimes they’re even more hostile about it based on the exact same logic (“you have a CHOICE, you should CHOOSE to just be straight”) — but the myth persists, and bi kids continue to suffer from the very specific whammy of “”””straight-passing privilege””””.
Oh man you sing the sweet truth. I thought I was gay because I liked dudes, had the traditional coming out where family didn’t take kindly to that, found a family in the queer community, figured out that I also into non-dudes too, and got to re-experience the prior coming out only this time as a “Traitor” who “didn’t have the balls to fully come out” and “when you realize that bisexuality doesn’t exist, you can come back and we’ll forgive you.” which is what my rabidly terf aunt said about being gay.
Is her logic sound here? Yeah. All of her logic is consistent and her anxiety relative to them warranted. Is her logic right? Obviously not and she’s making a bunch of assumptions in her own hypothetical. She’s a very black and white thinker and struggles with grey a lot. I think this is one of those moments of hers that puts me of two minds on the character.
Becky is a pretty easy to write off character. Possessive, controlling, dogmatic, unstable, desparately clinging to a bunch of baggage, generally makes any one of the mentioned someone else’s problem, and almost all of it is driven by fear terror and a pinch of self loathing.
Why she makes such a good character for this comic is when she is fearful she has a mechanism for clinging and expounding to others (the very thing I listed as making her easy to write off) which activates the casts many finer features or drama. Not only that when she is in her most lucid moments she tends to be even more nuanced about her place in life compared to a lot of the cast due to her unique origin and upbringing in a very human way.
Ultimately I want Becky to get over some of this because her flaws have kind of worn thin on me a bit and when she’s bad she is unquestionably ‘ugly’. Not that I wish she was already grown up entirely mind you. Just enough that when she’s having one of her flaw based reactions that it reads less of a ‘blinded by my emotions so hard I’m practically monologing’ and more of an interaction.
Best part of a more grown Becky would be that she’s the type to cringe at her past self in really funny ways as far as I can tell.
It’s very funny to me how this starts off with “Rough day for Becky in the comments” and then has that third paragraph. Not that your opinion is wrong (not one that I share, but understandable), I’m just amused by an opening like that leading in part to such a harsh take. XD
I just don’t have the spoons to flesh out a counter-analysis currently, which generally leaves me in “okay, yeah, bro, whatever” territory with these things.
Becky is an inarguably flawed person. Flaws can make a character interesting and even ‘a good character’ in a piece of entertainment. I like Becky as a character. I find her struggle very relatable.
It is always interesting to see people taking these scenes as exclusively character traits and not characters-as-mouthpieces for real life trends. It is falling from relevance as the queer community rallies, but in the teens and early 20s of this fine century there was a lot of backlash towards trans women from cis lesbians for referring to themselves as lesbians.
It led to a lot of struggle by many in the cis binary gay community to hold both respect and support for trans and nonbinary members of LGBTQIA, as well as their own strictly binary and largely biology-based views on attraction. “If someone born with a peen can be a lesbian, then what is the point of the decades of struggle against stuff like conversion therapy and closeted marriages?”
For my part, I’m reading this entire plotline with Becky as a mouthpiece to explore that, much like the Incelerator as a means of commenting on the mediocrity of impotent grifters peddling misogyny.
It isn’t shoehorning, Becky is an excellent character to explore this with – she is a straight up girl-loving girl who still relies pretty heavily on dogma and binary concepts to navigate her world. This isn’t a minority of people who feel/felt this way, and is a lot of the power that has come up behind the likes of JKR over the last ten years, and other anti-trans talking heads. But the community has grown in the face of the challenge of accepting the entire gender spectrum and what that means for sexuality, and it feels like we don’t see nearly as much fighting between cis and trans lesbians anymore.
Now what would be interesting is to see commentary on how trans men are actually pretty much invisible in discussions about trans rights. I believe part of that is intentional – due to the obsessive focus by society on the female form while having much easier acceptance of a wider variety of male forms, it tends to be much easier for trans men to pass than trans women, as soon as the T kicks in vocal changes during second puberty, many trans men read as men. And if you aren’t being actively persecuted but are likely to be if you were more visible, why would you put a spotlight on yourself? The rest of it feels like baggage that comes from still being associated with the AGAB, in that the anti-trans sector especially infantilises women and therefore just largely ignores trans men, while men are viewed as having the power and so trans women get much more pushback for still being seen as “male” by anti-trans factions.
Anyway. This is a good topic to explore, but the lesson must ultimately be that a person’s identity is a personal thing and not a growth lesson itself, yes sexuality can be fluid but it is also fine to be rigid – no one is obligated to love or be attracted to another.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but isn’t Becky kind of doing the opposite of what you’re talking about? There are no trans women referring to themselves as lesbians here. Becky is thinking that if Dina came out as a trans man, she’d be “nope”, because Dina would be a dude. That’s not part of this fight between trans and cis lesbians – if anything the particular cis lesbians you’re talking about wouldn’t be on Becky’s side here, because (at least theoretically) they’d see a trans masc Dina as still “really” a woman, so Becky could still be a lesbian.
As a side note, it never really was a fight between cis and trans lesbians, but mostly straight cis women (or even straight cis men) using a handful of cis lesbians as cover.
due to the obsessive focus by society on the female form while having much easier acceptance of a wider variety of male forms, it tends to be much easier for trans men to pass than trans women, as soon as the T kicks in vocal changes during second puberty, many trans men read as men
[citation needed]
(Trans men’s erasure means a lot of violence faced by trans men is also erased and reported as violence against women, but there are literally no actual axes upon which you can say “trans women have it worse” OR “trans men have it worse”, only axes upon which you can say “we’ve got less data about this group”. Rates of murder and sexual assault and so on are reported at varying levels depending on how studies are conducted.)
(But the Oppression Olympics help no one. How about we all just focus on supporting each other, instead of arguing over who has it worse.)
A lot of what you’re saying here hits me in the “orange flag” territory, but the one thing I’ll comment on is that: There is nothing wrong with reading a comic like a comic and not like a series of culturally relevant mouthpieces.
I would even say that a mix is ideal, and probably the most common way, but if you have to choose (because someone is holding the binary-choice gun to your head) then I guess just pick the one that makes you happiest.
I’ll definitely admit, non-binary and trans* discussions unlocked a serious amount of uncertainty in me as a very cis “Liking traditionally male things does not make me any less of a woman” woman.
Like… When you spend your whole life arguing with people that “Cutting my hair short doesn’t makes me less of a woman!!” or “Liking videogames doesn’t make me less of a woman” or “Not liking dresses doesn’t make me less of a woman!!!” it gets really weird when you start meeting people who say “I don’t really identify as a woman because I feel more like me with my hair short and wearing androgynous clothes, and I like cars and fishing”
The two views feel really incompatible. But also… My general conclusion is “People know their own mind, and it’s not really hurting anything to let them be who they are.”
If anything, Dina is probably just agender or gender-meh, and this is probably just Becky worrying about something that wouldn’t happen.
…I’m not going to say you’ve never met a trans person who said exactly that. I’m also not going to say you’ve never met a trans person who meant exactly that.
I will say that it’s not common. That usually what people mean is that they get a little surge of gender euphoria from doing something that they, personally, strongly associate with the gender in question.
And also that trans people’s gender is EXTREMELY policed by society. When we try to transition, we learn to say stuff like “I always knew I was a girl because I liked wearing dresses,” even if in fact we don’t like wearing dresses at all, because the first narrative? Is one that cis people have more experience with and tend to recognize as more legitimate. Getting approved for HRT often requires a degree of hyperfeminine or hypermasculine social transition, and people have shared horror stories about how they didn’t feel up to doing a full face of makeup one day, and their psychiatrist immediately penalized them with extra delays because “you just don’t seem SERIOUS about transitioning”.
So, let’s remember to take all this stuff into consideration when we hear someone talk about how short hair or a “feminine” hobby affirms or confirms their gender.
I’ve also met a lot of nonbinary people who’ve said that when explaining how they knew they weren’t cis. It is really common in my experience, at least young people who are still figuring it out (which is the kind of person you’re around when you’re also figuring it out). People are not very good at explaining their internal experiences. I agree that that isn’t what most people who say it really mean — but it is incredibly difficult to realize that no one really means it when everyone around you is saying it, and not just as a throwaway line but as their one-and-only (shared) explanation.
I agree that that isn’t what most people who say it really mean — but it is incredibly difficult to realize that no one really means it when everyone around you is saying it
I left space for that possibility explicitly, even though I personally have never encountered anyone who said these things, and tried to explain why it can sound like this when I don’t think it ever really is.
Sigh. Obviously I’ve encountered people who have said things I think are easy to misinterpret as “I don’t like makeup, therefore I’m not a woman”. If I’d never heard anyone saying anything similar, I wouldn’t think I had any insight to offer here at all.
I’ve definitely met trans people who explained it exactly like that. And yes, it was VERY disorienting as someone who grew up on “Women can be anything we want to be, and it doesn’t make us less of women to not like dresses/like cars/whatever.” I had a very involved conversation with a sibling who basically started there and I spent the whole hour trying to respectfully say “But… How does that make you not a woman?”
I’ve recalibrated now. But that was exactly how many non-binaries and trans people explained it to me, and I was like “I don’t want to argue that you aren’t trans, but I don’t understand how that makes you not a woman???? I don’t like wearing make-up either, but I’m not a man because of it???”
Yes, I understand your expressed viewpoint. I tried to explain why people might be saying that, or why they might at least be saying something that sounded like it.
It’s not “makeup = woman”, it’s societal expectations currently strongly associate the two, and wearing makeup can REALLY change how you look in the mirror (especially if you’re skilled in its application), and changing how you look in the mirror can induce feelings of either euphoria or dysphoria.
Maybe I’m just saying completely unnecessary stuff and you’ve already come to understand all of this on your own, but honestly your comments have sounded to me like “I still don’t get it, and I’ve made peace with not getting it”? So I was responding to that.
I do get it. I still kinda hate that this is the go to explanation because it makes me feel like… I don’t, like I’m trying to be anti-trans because I don’t think liking dolls, pink or dresses are a critical part of being a woman.
The whole “When I look at pictures of women I don’t feel like I belong to that group” idea makes so much more sense to me
Right, but even the explanation you’re hearing still isn’t actually “liking dolls/dresses/pink is a critical part of being a woman”.
It’s “society has so strongly associated these things with being a woman that partaking in them makes me feel more feminine, which in turn makes me feel more like a woman”.
Ahh, okay, that makes sense. “I feel more like I am who I should be when I engage in these things.”
There’s still a bit of “What’s wrong with being a man who likes wearing dresses?” in my mind… But meh. I’m also happy to write it off as “Trying explain an emotion I will likely never feel is difficult”
“What’s wrong with being a man who likes wearing dresses?”
I mean, you’re really preaching to the choir there. The vaaaaaast majority of gender-policing, and esepcially the stuff that has any actual societal power, is coming from queerphobic cis people.
Trans folks aren’t the ones who divide clothing into “men’s” and “women’s”, and trans folks aren’t the ones who insist on putting all the dresses into the “women’s” section. Trans folks aren’t the ones who frequently assault cis men for wearing dresses. It wasn’t trans folk who raided Stonewall Inn to arrest the cross-dressers.
If you want to live in a world where dresses are no longer seen as “women’s” clothing, 99% of the people opposed to that are cis queerphobes.
A handful of dysphoric trans people who hew closer to what seem like stereotypes? They’re a drop in the bucket.
But as for the feeling — honestly, I don’t think it’s too hard to explain? It just hasn’t been framed in a way that clicks for you.
You’ve talked about not liking pink, but was there never a time in your childhood when you hated it?
The strength of that feeling had nothing to do with pink itself, right? It’s not that pink is an ugly color. And there’s nothing inherently feminine about pink, either — in fact, until WWII or so, “pink” was treated like other pastel shades, where it was considered “pale red” instead of “a completely separate color”, and as “pale red”, it was a perfectly masculine option for baby clothes. Pale blue, meanwhile, was associated with the Virgin Mary, and therefore feminine.
But in the 1980s, say, pink was EXTREMELY feminized. And as a result, for little girls, it was inescapable. The “girl” section of any given toy store was almost entirely pink. The “girl” section of any given clothing store was almost entirely pink. People expected you to wear pink, and they expected you to play with pink toys. And the toys often weren’t just pink — they were dolls instead of action figures, toy kitchen appliances instead of Nerf guns. Toys that are… not necessarily less fun? But less active. Less action-oriented. Even though little kids are pretty indistinguishable, with little girls able to run just as fast as little boys, a lot of “girl” toys discourage running and rough-housing.
So, pink stops being just a color, and starts to have all this baggage. There’s nothing inherently passive or stereotypically girly about pink, but the association is REALLY strong. And being forced to wear pink — which some of us are! — is in fact a type of societally approved, forced feminization.
Now. You probably don’t hate pink as much as you used to. For most of us, the intensity of our anti-pink sentiment fades as we get older… not necessarily because we “grow out of it”, but because pink stops being mandatory and inescapable.
But imagine for a moment that it didn’t. Imagine if the “women’s” section of a clothing store was still 90% pink. Imagine if, when you went to buy a cell phone, they only came in pink and blue, and store clerks would not only assume you must want a pink phone, but also get weird and hostile if you tried to buy a blue one. Imagine having to make up excuses, like, “oh, this is for my boyfriend,” when you don’t even have a boyfriend.
I feel like in that world, you’d still hate pink.
I think in that world, if you said you just wanted to be able to buy a less femininized phone, and someone else tried to protest that pink is just a color and it’s stereotyping to call it feminine….
Well. You can see why that might sound silly, right? You’re not the one who decided pink was feminine!
Uh…. I specifically said Dina is probably “just agender” because Becky seems worried that being a little meh about gender is a slippery slope to Dina deciding she wants to transition to being a man.
Not something about agender being lesser or anything… Just I don’t think Dina cares much about gender one way or another, and this slippery slope is likely “just” paranoia.
Like, literally using it as a statement of comparison in the slope that the character has already laid out. It’s not a statement about agender and it’s implicit value.
It seems to position it as a less nonbinary, less trans option. And some people might feel that way, but that’s not innate to it. I am agender, and I am VERY STRONGLY not a woman. I am nonbinary and trans. Your statement of it as a comparison in the slope is my issue.
Then take it up with Becky, who implied that Dina cutting her hair might make her masc, then NB, then trans? The slope is hers, not mine.
Dina does not seem to care about gender. Period. I don’t think she cares about being a woman. I don’t think that is because she secretly wants to be a man, because I think “wanting to be a man” implies that a level of concern for her gender that I don’t think she has.
You may be nonbinary and feel that makes you a third gender, or that you are no gender, and all of that is an acceptable version of non-binary. I specifically said “gender-meh” because there are non-binary people who just do not care what gender they are. There’s also gender fluid. I was not trying to represent EVERY SINGLE VERSION of nonbinary that exists. I was trying to put Dina into a specific version of non-binary, and “just” can be used to say “simply” or “only” or “exactly”.
I can’t stop you from trying to make me into some horrible bigot because I used the word “just” in describing a fictional character. I did not even REMOTELY imply that it is “less nonbinary”, what the fuck even is that? Nonbinary is an umbrella, agender is a specific aspect of nonbinary. TRANS is also an umbrella, and Nonbinary is a part of that umbrella, and agender is a part of that. Not every nonbinary person is agender, nor is every trans person agender, so yes, “just” is an appropriate way to say “she is this exact part of the greater terminology.” Not “She is not trans*” or “she is not non-binary,” because agender, as you said, is also trans and nonbinary. Literally all of the negative context here is yours.
I don’t think you’re a horrible bigot. I do think you said something hurtful. If you had said “just nonbinary” there, do you see how that might be an issue? Or do you think Dina being nonbinary would be a non-issue for Becky? I think Dina being not a woman could be an issue for Becky with how she holds onto the “only into ladies” part of her identity. It would be more to explore.
I understand my tone was harsh and that felt bad to you. I do object to how you phrased your first comment. If you’d like to discuss it further, you can comment under today’s strip.
Becky ALSO implies that Nonbinary is not an issue, it’s the “Now you’re a dude” where she draws a strong line.
Dina also might just identify as a woman! And again, I use the term “just” because the manner in which I am using this English word allows it to be used in a context that means “this specific thing” or “only” and not exclusively in a “this thing which is less than another thing.”
I’m sorry I said something you found hurtful, but I think if you’re going to start attacking the people on your side because you’re reading what they said in the worst possible light… you’re going to have fewer people on your side. My loyalty to trans* people ain’t that fickle. But “just” meaning “only” is not exactly a strange use of the word.
And if you had said “only,” my issue would have been the same. That’s not the problem, and I guess at this point, we won’t be understanding each other.
I also don’t read Becky as implying that nonbinary isn’t an issue– I think she doesn’t really consider it, which would make sense for someone who has probably only been aware of it for a few months.
I feel like you’re putting a lot of negative connotation on what should actually just be a neutral term? Like… Dina may only identify as a woman. I also only identify as a woman. Being one thing to the exclusion of another thing is not inherently negative, unless you consider being a woman a negative, or being non-binary as a negative, or being agender as a negative…
So far as I know, nothing I said implied any of things are a negative. Like, maybe on a grand, societal scale, someone out there is implying this… But these aren’t inherently negative, I don’t consider them to be negatives, so why would it be a negative thing to only be those?
Like imagine there’s a grey ball on the table, and someone says “Look, red ball!” It’s not incorrect to say “No, that’s just a ball.” It’s not a bad thing that it’s not red. You could argue that “That’s a grey ball” might be more accurate, but in this case… there wasn’t another relevant part of the descriptor for the statement I was making? I wanted to say “I think if she’s anything other than currently stated, she’s only this, not that other thing Becky was implying.” One is not less than the other. “Only” is not a moral judgement, there was no “this is better than the other option” meant.
But you may be right that she only identifies as a woman, and only ever will. There was some other lines Dina has made that made me feel that her gender is just sort of irrelevant to her, but I would need to deep dive it.
Let’s take the “only” and “just” out of it, as it’s completely missing my point. And I understand I might not have been clear; honestly, I just broke down crying over this conversation, so I might not be getting my thoughts across as best as possible.
Agender is not the same as gender-meh or disinterested or not having strong feelings about it. People can feel that way *and* identify as agender, but it is an exhausting assumption to deal with as a given. I have very strong feelings relating to gender and a lack thereof. Agender is not only (to bring it back to the only, I guess) the point you are describing, nor is it the exclusive descriptor of that point. Dina could be agender, and we still wouldn’t know if she wants to medically transition or make changes in how her gender is perceived. (I don’t think she is, and I don’t think she wants to transition, and while I think she’s a woman, I could see her finding gender irrelevant– but that attitude doesn’t auto equate to agender.)
But I will retract some of the “less nonbinary” stuff (which yeah, I’ve absolutely gotten, or like “not really nonbinary” or whatever) if you think the same statement would have been fair using “nonbinary or gender-meh” and that nonbinary wouldn’t be an issue for Becky, like you said. (I do think it would be, but I can see how there’s room to consider there).
Oof, I’m sorry this is hitting you so hard. That is not fun.
Honestly, I went looking for what Dina said that make me think she may be “gender meh,” and I’m like, 4 years back in the archives and not finding it. It was really early on, just a very factual statement about how “she has been told that she is a woman and has no reason to dispute it” or something to the like. And honestly, at this point I could be misremembering it entirely, but it was something that stuck in my brain as character defining. I’ll keep looking, but the quote you pulled is also pretty explicit in that she sees herself as a woman.
Anyways, you’re right! Agender isn’t quite the term I was looking for, because it does encompass both people who are certain that they fit no category (which I’d probably has called nongendered), and what I was trying to describe as being more unconcerned and just see themselves as “Something, it’s sorta nebulous, anyways, society says I’m this so I may as well call myself this”. Unfortunately… I don’t know a good term for what I wanted to express other than “gender meh” (which I think I’m stealing from EGS), so I pulled agender as an umbrella term. I didn’t mean to say all agender people don’t care about gender, sorry. I know there’s a range within that, I meant to refine the definition of agender I was using, not lump every agender person into one category.
I mean, it’s really all just sorta messy all over, because no one seems to really be able to define what it means to be (or not be) a woman, other than “I just know”. My own definition of “What it means to be a woman” is just “Society said I’m a woman, so gosh darn it, I’m drawing carving out a section of the definition that includes all of me.” Which… Isn’t really a great definition of what makes me a woman, because I could have been exactly the same person, but society said I was a man, and I’d still draw a line in the sand that says men can be everything that I am? Because spite and stubbornness and from growing up being told “men/women can be anything they want to be.”
But yeah, I don’t think agender is any less non-binary, it’s just part of a bigger umbrella. And I don’t think every agender person doesn’t actually care about their gender, just that some of them (us? I guess I’m also saying I’m a bit gender-meh, but also stubborn) do feel that way.
And I don’t really think Becky would be opposed to Dina being more masc. I guess maybe she’d be iffy with nonbinary, but there’s so many things that fit under non-binary that it’s hard to really say. Like, I don’t think she’d mind Dina going butch. She probably would be okay with she/they pronouns. Would she hate they/them pronouns? She/they/he/any? What about genderfluid, where sometimes Dina wants to be a him? They/him feels too far over the line. Obvious he/him is right out. We’d clearly need Dina level of testing on the line to know when it stops being okay. (That’s mostly sarcastic)
I mean… there’s another option between being alone entirely and glomping into a relationship.
Y’all can just be friends.
But I understand she’s kinda going through a few issues in regards to her family… dying.
Sure, but they’re already dating and really into one another? The possibility of friendship isn’t just going to magically make it not hurt to have to split up or face finding someone you loved has changed beyond your ability to continue staying together.
Like… even without the trauma it’s really normal to not look forward to potentially breaking up.
Life was so much easier before people jumped to the conclusion you might be trans bc you were wearing something typical for the other gender like, once.
I frankly think it’s better that before when most people denied that trans people even existed or were anything else that sexual deviants. At least now some actually considering it an real possibility.
I think there’s a vast chasm between ignoring what people tell you, repeatedly, about their gender and using a single, to stress it, ONE moment where someone wears clothing usually attributed to another gender and jumping to conclusions.
Or did I miss several instances of Dina wearing traditionally male attire or talking about exploring gender?
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Multiple trouser legs of time radiating out from this critical nexus…
So many legs that only a multi-dimentional octopus can put on.
So many legs? Surely it’s a binary decision.
I mean there are always an infinite number of possible futures but the relivant categories are rather small. Cut or cut not. Becky eventually alone or not. One binary decision. One binary outcome. Four relevant categories of futures. Need a few more for an octopus.
Wait, *I* am first?
Did the Rapture just happen and I am the only DoA fan left?
(Doesn’t seem plausible to *me*.)
Haven’t you ever thought that you were the only person in the universe? That solipsism is true, and the rest of us are merely NPCs created by your imagination to populate your universe? Thus no rapture necessary; it’s been Slartibeast Buttons all the way down. 😀
Dude, I’m an NPC in my own narrative, what are you talking about?
Excellent example of metasolipsism. Dang, that Slartibeast is clever!
Foundational, you might say.
If you haven’t read “The Egg” by Andy Weir, you really should.
Pratchett!!
“They say ‘time is the fire in which we masculinise’. Right now, Captain, my time is running out. We leave so many transitions unfinished in our lives.” — Dr. Tolian Soran, Star Trek: Generations
Becky have you considered talking to a therapist about potentially having an anxiety disorder?
That seems extremely likely. The anxiety disorder, not her talking to a therapist.
ditto that
I am genuinely happy by how open she’s being about her feels with Dina though. Not a therapist, but somebody who loves her and is a wonderful mix of insightful and with little social filter…
I feel bad for Dina though. As someone who is socially inept, watching someone with social anxiety unspool is like watching a tornado form around someone you care about and not knowing whether you should tackle them to the ground for their protection or run to avoid becoming collateral damage.
It initially seemed to me like she was mostly stressed about her identity, in a combination of just.. general 19-year old baby queer angst and the need to be A Lesbian or all of these horrible things would have happened to her for “No reason” (If she found out she was attracted to men after all, then she would have “Never needed” to date women in the first place. At least, that’s what it feels like her brain is telling her.)
But yeah, this conversation really makes it feel like all of the shitty things that have happened to Becky over the course of her life (Fundie upbringing, Mother’s suicide, Betrayal by her roommate at her old uni, Toedad Kidnapping, Homelessness, Blaine villain plot) have just left her with a desperate need for literally everything to stay the same as it is right now, because this is the closest she’s been to being actually *happy* for a very long time.
She might kind of frustrate me as a person, but boy do I really like Becky as a character. She’s really compelling to read.
“If I keep starin’ atcha forever you will never ever die.”
Well, it’s worked so far.
What’s the timeline for all that stuff actually been? Like, six months?
Her mom’s first birthday-while-dead happened recently, so at most, like, 11 months.
Pretty sure this is just unresolved abandonment issues. But yes. Therapist.
I mean that shit will give you an anxiety disorder
“Potentially”?
My wife and daughter have anxiety, and I 100% recognize this conversation.
The word of Willis informs us there are no good therapists in Indiana. Sort of like setting a story in the age before cellphones, a simple device to make things more difficult.
It’s a slippery slope.
A lot of unpacking to do, I reckon.
Existential Dread with a Side of Lesbianism <3
My Lesbian Experience With Existential Dread
I’m sorry nobody got your Naoko reference. I did.
The next band I will manage.
Sounds like two bands performing together for a charity gig. People would be trying to figure out who was in Existential Dread and who was in My Lesbian Experience.
just don’t kidnap her and you’ll probably be okay
Worst-case scenario, Becky? Good news about Joyce.
Technically Joyce is still straight, she just draws gayness to her. She’s a fulcrum.
But the *lever* is the straight part, the fulcrum is a point.
Yes. But the fulcrum is the point around which the straight thing changes it’s orientation and moves the world.
Eh, give her a few more years
A few years, our time. Maybe a couple weeks, their time.
Yeah hey so about that.
I feel like Joyce is going to eventually realize she didn’t reject Becky because she’s straight, but because Joyce thinks of Becky as her sister.
…Which would probably be an even worse kind of rejection for Becky than “she would like me, but she’s straight.”
If that’s how Joyce feels, and she explains it to Becky, I could see Becky taking that pretty well (eventually).
It’s not like it’s Becky’s fault that they grew up together as best friends.
This, or Becky just isn’t what spins her laundry. I’ve had dear friends who spark nothing in me for no apparent reason, while others I’d date in a heartbeat, assuming availability.
Either way, sucks to be Becky. Hopefully she’s well over Joyce by the time Joyce ever comes out, it’d be kinda shitty to Dina otherwise.
Not being over someone isn’t shitty to your current partner. How you deal with it may or may not be, but feelings are messy and unpredictable.
This.
But I wanna note that I would agree with “it would be kinda shitty for Dina”. Crucial conjunction. It’s not something Becky is doing to Dina, so much as something that’s unfortunate and stressful for both of them.
Oh yeah, absolutely that’s no fun at all for Dina.
We don’t want to bang our siblings. It’s not about genes, but who you grew up with. Westermark Effect.
I mean even if joyce was bi/’showed more interest in girls outside of becky i don’t know if it’d work together in a romantic sense, esp with ‘childhood friends’ tending to not work out, depends tho
Becky has issues.
You think?
honestly it’d be easier to count the ppl who /don’t/ have issues on this series
1.
… Asma?
She has a subscription.
Patiently waiting to see if this finally starts the “Becky unpacks her trauma” arc.
Would Becky get her trauma package from Asma, or the new guy?
Is Becky’s haircut considered feminine then?
Has her undercut grown out by now?
I have basically had the same haircut as Becky for 20+ years and am almost always read as femme… (non-binary here)
I think that’d be where most people would place it, yeah.
It’s considered Lesbian
Though it’s getting more common across the board! It’s been really interesting seeing a number of haircuts go from punkish when I was a kid to very queer amongst my generation to just like a way kids in elementary and middle school do their hair because they like it. General I live in a liberal bubble disclaimer, but it’s kinda cool seeing the process of that stuff working it’s way into the somewhat unisex mainstream.
it’s not as shaved on the side/too much of an undercut but isn’t it the usual ‘lesbian butch’ look that was popular for a while? (It looks fine art wise tho i was never rly fond of it looking too closely shaved but i don’t know how many guys have a similar hairstyle outside of the androgynous ones)
YES BUT NO BUT YES.
I’m just confirming: there are still no characters that have gone to therapy, right? What the fuck. Somebody needs to get Becky a therapist already
Ruth has been to therapy of some kind, hasn’t she? She’s on meds, which means there has to be a doctor involved somehow.
I finally got therapy after getting my meds right, and I am finally unpacking all the abuse I got in my childhood. Not from my parents or anybody related to me, I was abused by the DoD. Not that anybody knew, it wasn’t until somebody wanted to know why my peer group had similar rates of drug abuse, alcoholism, and imprisonment as combat veterans of the same era that it was found out (thank you nameless bureaucrat).
I am so glad, Opus, that you are getting the help that works for you! Congratulations!!!
You’re a writer, right? Did I remember that correctly? I bet your memoirs would be FASCINATING. (They might teach folks a thing or too as well!)
All the best on your journey!
I tried that back in the ’80s. Nobody I submitted them to thought they were real and that was before I got killed the first time. To tell the truth, there are times when even I have a hard time believing all that could have happened to one person. I feel like a modern day Baron Munchausen.
Seems like these days the criteria for a “memoir” or “inspired by documented accounts” are a little looser. Might be worth trying again…
Jennifer went to therapy and she’s all better now and doesn’t have to go ever again. Really. You believe her, right?
You can get meds without going to therapy. My partner went to a single physical exam just to get the prescription, has never been to a therapist or doctor of any type since (and refuses to do so)
Ruth had group therapy when she was in the hospital, and she mentioned changing meds after the time skip, so she’s probably still seeing a medical professional.
Though that doesn’t mean she’s seeing them that much… my experience with psychiatric providers is mostly seeing them for ten minutes once every three months. Make a med change, then it’ll be a bit sooner, like a followup in one month, but then back to the regular scheduling.
People who have gone to therapy: Ruth, Jennifer, Dorothy.
We don’t know if they’re still going… but they’ve gone before.
Off the top of my head, Dorothy does therapy (but may be leaving things out?)
Dorothy’s admitted to lying to her therapist or at least withholding things. Because she can’t be president if she has a record of mental issues.
Good news, Dorothy!
[internal screaming intensifies]
IIRC Dorothy was/is in therapy but also wasn’t being open about things to her therapist because what if they came out in a presidential campaign? so it probably wasn’t helping much since she was self censoring
I know Becky’s afraid of changes, but this is a level of panic over the idea that’s usually only found in people this has happened to before. (Not saying it has to Becky, since there’s been no evidence of that. Just: oof, this should probably get unpacked in therapy instead of to Dina.)
I mean this specific “girlfriend transitioned and I’m not into her anymore” thing hasn’t happened to Becky, but she’s lost a lot of people she really cared about and Dina is pretty much her whole world at this point.
Entirely true. It just seems like she’s *really* stuck on the specific fear of Dina being trans, not just Dina leaving her or losing her in some other way
I don’t read it as a fear of Dina being trans, but as a fear of Becky still finding Dina attractive if she was a trans guy.
I think it’s probably both, by which I mean Becky is afraid she WOULDN’T still find Dina attractive, but also a little afraid that she WOULD.
She’s very young, too, which is just something to generally keep in mind. “Losing” your sexuality identifier can be super scary, even more so when you’re young.
I had kind of a similar crisis in my early twenties about being bi instead of a lesbian, only that wasn’t how my brain interpreted it: it was “what if I’ve been lying to myself and others about being a lesbian this whole time when I’m really straight”.
Brains can be very stupid. Societal biphobia and -erasure doesn’t help.
I definitely have had this level of panic over my lesbianism, albeit over finding a trans woman attractive (which led to a years long unpacking of transphobia and my anxiety over fluid sexuality). Therapy was useless (since not a lot of therapists are fluent in queer) but having nonjudgmental, take-no-shit friends to hash it out and finding more varied reading materials was choice. Leslie would be my go-to. Authority figure who can kinda relate, suggest readings, and just listen without being directly affected. Or the queer student group.
You know, that’s entirely fair. I *really* should’ve considered that, esp as a queer/trans person who can’t find a dang therapist in my area who’s queer-affirming. But yeah, Becky needs to unpack this with someone who isn’t directly affected. It’ll be better for her, and also better for Dina (like, if it *had* been the case that Dina was trans, imagine how devastating that degree of reaction would be to her. …Having been on the receiving end of being rejected by a partner after presenting as my real gender, that’ll fuck you up for years).
Leslie would definitely be a good person to go to, both because they have a good personal relationship and because she’s bound to have resources on hand.
How do you feel about virtual therapy/have you looked into it before? A lot more therapists offer virtual sessions now I prefer in-person, but virtual has its benefits too.
its tricky with insurance and an ever widening gap between states in terms of what the insurance is being forced to cover, and what is considered “legal”
Yeah, since the pandemic, a lot more insurances here cover telehealth therapy sessions, which is why a lot more therapists have been offering it. But it’s true that it varies by state, and I can barely keep track of the state I’m in.
It’s sad that it can be hard to find a queer-affirming therapist– like, affirming, at least, should just be the standard. But I know when I started seeing a therapist as an adult, I didn’t put much thought into the queer-affirming part (because that’s not where my issues were) and instead focused on location/availability/insurance (which can already be hard to navigate!), and the therapist I ended up seeing turned out to be really shitty with queer stuff.
When I switched therapists, I included inclusion of queer identities in my search, and my next therapist was great (and also queer themself, which I didn’t really know going in). I’ve since changed to a new therapist, who is also great and also queer. Honestly, I don’t want to go to therapy with a therapist who isn’t queer again.
One of 80,000,000 things that’s scary and frustrating right now is that people like Leslie must reasonably fear for their jobs. Even though Becky is a legal adult, talking to her about her sexuality or gender identity could put Leslie even more in the crosshairs than she already is.
Don’t obey in advance, don’t treat this stuff like it’s already settled law — but it is reasonable to be terrified of broaching a topic like this with a student.
Working in education is terrifying right now. In a majorly suckish way, I do feel kind of vindicated with people who previously had opinions about how I should approach my identity at work and didn’t understand the level of concerns I had. (That was a couple years ago now, and I’m not at the same job, but I felt how precarious it was then. Now it’s even more oomph.)
Internet hugs? 🙁
I feel you on therapists. I am the dreaded gender??? bi AFAB person in a relationship with a straight, cis man, but therapists who are not queer or at least very experienced in that area just have. A wildly different viewpoint, no matter how supportive they may be. Sigh.
(My favourite psychologist was a gay man who worked with gay and trans youth – my current psychologist is a cis, straight woman who is super competent, but probably wouldn’t be good for all my issues for the aforementioned reasons.)
Dina would be lethally cute with short hair. Becky would not survive the night if Dina gets a pixy cut or a Dorothy Hammill wedge cut. TBH I think the wedge cut would be even cuter than the pixy cut on Dina’s head shape.
Becky? Becky, get some therapy. Like, as of several months ago
This is like the adage about tree planting:
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time to plant a tree is today.
The tree of Becky’s therapy should have been planted when her mother died, but it would be good to start now, better late than never.
I’ve still got six inches of snow on the ground, which is frozen solid. I’m pretty sure today isn’t a great tree-planting day.
We’ve got about half a meter of flood water, so ditto
Maybe try a mangrove?
The rest of the adage is if the ground is frozen, take the seed and soak it overnight, score it, and then plant it in a rooting mix in a 6″ planter tomorrow.
This adage gets increasingly specific as it goes on.
There’s always an excuse.
With what money, hah.
Mine is a sad bitter laugh about my country’s healthcare.
Dumbing of Age: A College Webcomic (Everyone is trans and bi)
It seems that every web comic I read eventually has everyone trans or bi
The webcomic-to-bi and trans pipeline is definitely real.
Well there is one common denominator in all the webcomics you read…
That’s right. They’re all on the Internet.
(Coincidence? You decide. )
Hair can grow out again.
That is hardly the point.
It’d be harder to go back from a transition tho, de-transitioning is possible tho usually kinda demonized by some ppl, but idk how much becky can handle it, tho i wonder if this is some long term foreshadowing of becky dating a trans girl
Aaw Becks… you know, when I was still figuring myself out, I was actually in a similar situation. I never identified as a lesbian, but I was trying out dating women. I noticed that my partner at the time (who identified as a woman at that point) was presenting more and more masc. Hair cut short, avoiding women’s clothes, wearing men’s, etc. And I thought to myself “does this change my feelings?” and the answer I came to for myself was… no. It didn’t. If my partner transitioned while we were together, I’d still care for him deeply. We eventually parted ways amicably, but he went on to transition and I’m very happy and proud of him for being able to live his life and his truth.
For Becky, it’s just something she has to come to grips with for herself. Only she can decide what kind of person she is and who she loves.
Also I should mention, him transitioning isn’t why we broke up, we broke up because the long distance was too much for us.
Becky, Becky, Becky. Please DO NOT OVERTHINK THIS!
Classic Becky. Making up completely fucking offensive scenarios in her head because instead of dealing with her trauma, she doubled down on it.
Weird way to view this.
The hell are you on about?
How do you double down on trauma?
Hold my beer.
…speaking of people who made things up in their heads.
She is catastrophic thinking. 🙁
Narrator’s voice: But Becky continued to overthink it.
My therapist told me I was overthinking things. But I’ve literally made a living analyzing problems in depth so I had trouble with that. How much is the right amount of thinking, and who decides?
But, here, we may have an example.
In the comic or in your comment?
No fair making me laugh while I’m drinking coffee.
Becky transphobia storyline sleeper hit of 2026
I don’t read this as transphobic at all. The issue is that she WOULD respect Dina’s gender identity in this hypothetical scenario, but that it’d mean the ending of their relationship.
Like, there is a lot to unpack here, but she’s not being bigoted in saying this, exactly.
No issues. You aren’t responsible for who attracts you or not (those hormones, sheesh; they do their own thing). You _are_ responsible for how you behave in response to that attraction or lack thereof.
Gonna get crucified for this but… Is this actually transphobia? Aren’t we running up against “My orientation is not just a choice or lifestyle” here?
If a bi person said “I’d never date a trans person” or a straight man or gay woman said “I’d never date a trans woman” then that would be transphobia.
But if, for example, a straight man says “I’m simply not attracted to men and I wouldn’t date a person I’m not attracted to” is that homophobia? No, no it is not. So is it really transphobia if Becky says “I wouldn’t date a man, regardless of whether trans or cis”?
No, you right. Becky does not date men. Becky not dating transman!Dina would be validating Dinas identity. That is being true to both herself and Dina.
Becky has PTSD and anxiety related to the concept of identity, but she is expressing the opposite of transphobia here.
Got ghosted by someone because he realized he was only into women, and being ghosted isn’t great, but as a nonbinary person, it was fairly gender-affirming.
I think if Becky and Dina broke up because Dina discovered Dudeness™ and became incompatible with Becky’s orientation, they’d still remain BFFs. It may take an adjustment period, but these two communicate like nobody’s business, and I’m sure they could weather being “just” super-tight besties who used to fuck.
Oh yeah, the uhhhhh the crucifixion thing. Like, do you still want it or…? Cuz I guess I can, I brought the planks and nails and such, but you’re not wrong or anything, and lumber is expensive?
“I’m just not attracted to this” is not transphobia, no, anymore than gays saying “I’m just not attracted to women” isn’t misogyny.
A lesbian no longer being attracted to a trans guy after he transitions is not transphobia.
There are plenty of transphobic ways for Becky to react to Dina hypothetically transitioning, but this isn’t one of them.
The good thing about hair is that it grows back after being cut. If it turns out short hair doesn’t work, just wait a few months and everything’s back to normal.
They don’t have a few months. We’ll all be dead by then. And the buffer will eventually run out.
I think it slows down as you get older, i cut my bangs too short once and feels like it takes forever/nails growing back faster although i wonder how many ppl shave their head over the summer and it growing back longer the next year , might depend on the individual like how some ppl take forever to grow facial hair and ppl automatically having ‘5 o clock shadow’ within two hours of shaving XD
“Yes, no, maybe. I don’t know. Can you repeat the question?” – TMBG
Someone show this girl some Eurythmics videos, STAT!
I dunno, Becky might well mess with The Missionary Man…
Who am I to disagree-ee.
Everybody’s looking for something.
I can’t hear this song and not think of Conan clapping his fists together while intensely staring into the camera.
Thanks, YTMND.
And there goes the mood. Just like that mantra in Franklin Sherberts masterpiece Dune 64, “Fear is the moodkiller”
Dina, if you want to cut your hair, just do it. You don’t need validation from others. Now, if you can, find a local queer-owned hair salon/barber to do it.
well she’s only considering it because of becky being insecure about fluid sexualities , tho she did say it was getting in her way, so idk how often she’d trim her hair usually, other than like ethan, becky and billie i don’t know how many others have trimmed their hair so far (i guess malaya too, i know there was a joke about walky needing a haircut but idk if it’s still being grown out)
Ah PTSD, my old Enemy. We meet again. *Becky’s Brain, probably*
I had PTSD before PTSD was a thing, but I don’t know everything about it. Can untreated PTSD evolve into anxiety disorder? I don’t discount it because PTSD does evolve if untreated, mine evolved into depression.
PTSD is anxiety related. So, yeah.
I mean we know in flashbacks she saw her mom’s suicide or part of it. Toe dad didn’t seem like the kind to get her counseling or therapy. Then we had.. running away, kidnapping at gunpoint, made all her friends a target for kidnapping (Amber is partially a reason as well) then had her dad murdered. Like… if this ISNT PTSD related I’m unsure what it would be.
….Becky.
sometimes you think some of the characters in DoA are doing well. this is not one of those times.
Becky is not doing well. She’s just good at hiding it.
Set Honesty to “On”.
Wow she shortcut at least 2 long drama arc
Dumb Dead Dad is a fun alliteration compared to how depressing it sounds.
The Anxiety of Becky, in 3D!
Damn now I just imagining it playing in a theater in her brain like the one in Osmosis Jones. XD
Becky.
What.
The.
FUCK.
None of that sense.
It does if you are a traumatized teenagers with abandonment and identity related issues.
I think you can acknowledge that an emotional response is valid without having to agree with any of the factual/logical inaccuracies that come with it.
Good thing that I didn’t do that! I just pointed out that that there is understandable reason for why she thought this that is in line with previous characterization.
Emotions can make sense. I don’t know why people struggle with this concept.
People often contrast emotions with logic and may view logic as objective/factual/absolute. And then think something making sense means it’s based in what they consider logic.
In a more empathetic way, I think a lot of people have learned in various ways that their emotions are bad, and therefore thinking that’s impacted by their emotions is likely wrong. (That doesn’t actually divorce their emotions from their thinking, of course, but some will pretend it’s not there.)
🎶 It’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay 🎶
“Here Comes a Thought” (one of my favorite Steven Universe songs)
To me “Cutting your hair short will make you a man” also sounds like big residual fundamentalist gender baggage that Becky has yet to get rid of, in spite of herself having had short hair (though not that short). 🙁
Dina for sure isn’t the right person to load that onto.
Signed, a woman with very short hair.
??
I mean, the idea that cutting her hair short would make her a boy came from Dina, not from Becky, who has repeatedly pushed back on the idea.
You are usually right about a lot in these here comments with your breakdowns but I think you’d benefit from re-reading that panel. It was definitely just her going ‘it might unlock something in YOUR brain that shifts you that way’. I don’t think she was equating the short hair to gender identity at all.
Hmmmmm.
I guess I can see that argument. It still isn’t how I read the panel, really.
My comment was definitely building off yesterday’s strip, though, where I do think Dina is kind of conflating basic gender presentation (suit, short hair) with gender identity, albeit in a way I personally find really really cute and relatable. It’s all very similar to how Dina originally confronted the question of sexuality, which I’m sure is intentional on Willis’s part — “[I’m not questioning, because] I think a better word for me would be ‘unconcerned’.” Similarly, she doesn’t seem* to have a strong binary gender identity — just a collection of vague, superficial signifiers that she knows are, societally, attached to gender identity.
“This is what you people with strong gender feelings consider ‘a man’, right?” sort of a sentiment.
I do still think Becky isn’t saying, or even thinking, that short hair would automatically make Dina a boy (as evidenced by her previous-strip last-panel punchline of “d’ya know what a pixie cut is?”), and I think Becky’s line of thinking is more likely to have been triggered by Dina actively talking about hypothetically becoming a boy (and trying to prove that Becky would still be attracted to her), and that the short hair is just an example here of Dina hypothetically shifting her gender presentation to “butch” and then finding that it really speaks to her and wanting to transition…
BUT. You are still correct that she is associating short hair (along with suit-wearing) with being a boy here, and I’m sure short hair is a generally hot-button topic in her brain for reasons of fundie brainwashing, and I’m sure she DOES still need to unpack and work on that.
(And also, thank you? Heh. 🙂 I try.)
* big big asterisk on Dina not seeming to have a strong sense of gender identity either way? This whole conversation is probably going to touch on that. I’m just, currently, at this point, strongly reminded of her “unconcerned” conclusion about her sexual identity.
Tbf there also has been ‘gender euphoria’ in some ppl cutting their hair short/changing the way they dress/present and realizing things about themselves too even if women keeping their hair short has been socially acceptable for years now too
Yeah, I think if you’ve always (or for a long time) felt gender dysphoria about something, it doesn’t really stand out that that’s what it is. It’s just background noise in your brain, at a point. And then you do something that changes it, and it’s like holy shit??? This feels so good???
That was me and my first experiences with binding, anyway, at which point I was still considering myself basically a girl (and was binding my chest as an ally?? idk).
This really feels like Becky’s pick and choose approach to her past and specifically religion is still messing with her head
She needs someone who can give her a combo of queer spiritual guidance so this need to be so rigid doesn’t wreck her head
Narratively it’d be better for a blowup over Joyce and Dorothy revelations but if I was her friend that would be my advice
Nothing to add, this is a good comment, it’s just
“Queeritual guidance” was right there.
Dammit you’re right!
I’m sorry *bows head
utterly understandable for her though. her entire life fell apart because of her sexuality. (At least to her, it wasn’t her fault, but The Guilt is there)
From her perspective:
Her dad is dead because of her need for ladies, Mike is tangentially dead because of her. her friends were kidnapped, hurt and relationships ended because of of her. Ethan’s an Emo twunk and smooching a gangster.
If she suddenly is okay with a “Dude” then everything that happened… Happened for nothing.
Again, not her fault, not even a real truth per say, but in her head?
For sure, it’s all been forced on her because of who she is, who she is has to be eternal or else
It’s so sad how much her survival mechanism is probably gonna lead to a big freak out that blows up way too big, and how powerless Becky feels to stop these freakouts
Like even if Becky actually did try to move past this rigid mindset, I feel like she’d just do something that made her uncomfortable rather than sitting and meditating on her feelings
It’s not easy, being Becky
“And what if the moon falls out of the sky and hits me in the ass?”
Becky, you’re overthinking this. I get you, but you’re definitely overthinking this.
That’s a morass. ♫♪
If the moon falls out of the sky and hits you in the ass, overthinking it is the least of your problems.
“A lady’s imagination is very rapid; it jumps from admiration to love, from love to matrimony, in a moment.”
Or in this case, from being in a relationship to forever alone.
Personally though, I like using the Chinese pharse in this context, 自编自导自演 (self-write self-direct self-act), i.e. coming up with the entire fiction by oneself with no basis in reality.
I’m fairly certain I’m not a lady, nor do I have anywhere near as much personal trauma as Becky(‘s backstory). I do have anxiety, though, and so I suspect that’s the most important ingredient.
Becky, go to therapy.
That’s you peoples’ solution to everything.
I mean… you’re not wrong?
I don’t mind that more people who would benefit from it are getting it now because of the reduced stigma, but as of recent, late capitalism has turned it into this fad where people are going too far in the other direction and treating therapy as some kind of panacea (9-9)
Besides the fact that therapists are by no means free of racial, sexist, queerphobic, ableist and other insensitivities and bigotries (especially the ones actually available to students attending a red state university),
as knee-jerky as it is for some people to hear,
we are not going to “wellness”, “good vibes” or “one-on-one therapy” are way out of a mental health crisis which is a direct outcome of structural and economic violence and inequality
as unfortunate as it is, without knowing or willing it, many today have been sold on this impression that therapy has some intrinsic value regardless of actual context, and basically boils down to saying,
“I don’t know how therapy actually works or what it can and can’t do, but what I do know is that it’s an easy thing to say to be dismissive of other people.” (-_-)
You have been doing awesome with the alt-text these past couple of days. “A cropped top”, frigging hilarious.
Becky suddenly having all the freakouts when she’s in a safe setting is so real
Just FYI, some news for IU student voters…
https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2025/Items/Mar10-3.html
https://boltsmag.org/indiana-banning-student-id-for-voting/
Beckyyyy, its time to learn the fluidity of sexuality …. its okay to be a lesbian and in love with a trans masc…. there are no rules <3
Still it makes a lot of sense to have the freak-out, though maybe not for something this minor and “standard genderqueer lesbian.” I internally freaked out a little when my spouse transitioned, because I wasn’t sure how I’d react since I was *sure* I was the straight in my friend group for a long time. We talked about it, and turns out I’m not, and also that the person often matters a hell of a lot more than the gender presentation… but it’s something people have to navigate.
oh, absolutely !! especially for someone who grew up with such a strict binary understanding of the world.
And thats great !! i came to the same conclusion, its more about the person, their body is just a vessel. its why i feel like pan is the closest i can come to a label. i can find myself attracted to pretty much anyone depending on who they are (altho im with becky, i much prefer girls !! XD)
I’m starting to think Becky may have a tendency to overthink things a bit.
I know it’s mental gymnastics to keep both these identities, but:
I know a lesbian who is happily married to a trans man.
It does not make her less lesbian or him less male.
It’s just love.
People started referring to their relationship as straight, which was meant to validate HIS gender identity. But it invalidated hers, and it shouldn’t be a competition.
Labels aren’t always rigid. They don’t have to be. Sometimes a label and the feelings behind it don’t 100% fit the literal definition of that label.
She says “i’m wired for women. i’m a dyke. but i happen to love this queer man.”
Getting your label taken away by others on a technical literal definition hurts. Sometimes we just have to live with these ambiguous realities.
She’s making an exception, love is love is love, and they’ve found it 💖 They still get to choose their own labels. If he’s only into women he may be straight, but she isn’t, she’s making an exception; they get to agree whether to label their relationship as queer.
But also, why do people need to label these things? They’re a couple. They’re hopefully cute together coz they’re loving towards each other? In which case yay! Happy relationship.
Also, “lesbian” isn’t just a descriptor, it’s a community. A community where a person might have spent a LOT of time, have a lot of connections, feel a deep sense of belonging.
And there have always been nonbinary, transmasc, and trans men who are also lesbians.
If someone else’s identity label makes you uncomfortable, consider that it’s none of your business and doesn’t actually impact you in any way. Consider that as a lesbian, you are not obligated to find all other lesbians attractive.
SOOOO THIS actually it ain’t mental gymnastics at ALL
labels are descriptive, not prescriptive, FUUUUCK the “words have meanings” bullshit
as queers, WE are the ones who make the language for our affirmation, speakers make the language, NOT the other way around
Becky thinking that she HAS to be X, Y, Z because of her lesbian identity is is very clearly a remnant of the toxic Evangelist authoritarian mindset instilled into both her and Joyce since their childhood
cut the head of a Biblical Literalist talking snake, the body still lives
Dina: I am attracted to Becky because I love Becky and enjoy making her happy.
Becky: IF LITERALLY ANYTHING DISRUPTS WHAT I BELIEVE IS MY SENSE OF NORMALCY I WILL HAVE AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS
I think that second bit is really more “I am hanging on to my sense of self with a white-knuckled pinky finger after a bunch of violent upheavals”.
Well think about it, her entire world impolded because she only likes ladies. Her mom might have offed herself for not being able to like ladies.
If her brain suddenly puts dudes back on the table, all of that stuff that happened… Never had to happen. In her head at least, her dad died, and her life fell apart, and she could possibly wind up with a dude anyway?! What’s the point of it all then?!
Now, I’m not in anyway saying it actually WOULD be her fault if she wound up bisexual, it very much was *never* her fault, but tell that to mentally anguished tween orphan.
Yeah.
As I mentioned up above, I went through something kind of similar in my early twenties.
The statistics SUPER do not bear out the myth that bi kids have it easier than gay kids — homophobic parents are almost always also biphobic, and sometimes they’re even more hostile about it based on the exact same logic (“you have a CHOICE, you should CHOOSE to just be straight”) — but the myth persists, and bi kids continue to suffer from the very specific whammy of “”””straight-passing privilege””””.
And there is also prejudice from other gay folks and thus trouble finding community.
Oh man you sing the sweet truth. I thought I was gay because I liked dudes, had the traditional coming out where family didn’t take kindly to that, found a family in the queer community, figured out that I also into non-dudes too, and got to re-experience the prior coming out only this time as a “Traitor” who “didn’t have the balls to fully come out” and “when you realize that bisexuality doesn’t exist, you can come back and we’ll forgive you.” which is what my rabidly terf aunt said about being gay.
Ugh that is incredibly awful, I’m so sorry.
Rough day for Becky in the comments.
Is her logic sound here? Yeah. All of her logic is consistent and her anxiety relative to them warranted. Is her logic right? Obviously not and she’s making a bunch of assumptions in her own hypothetical. She’s a very black and white thinker and struggles with grey a lot. I think this is one of those moments of hers that puts me of two minds on the character.
Becky is a pretty easy to write off character. Possessive, controlling, dogmatic, unstable, desparately clinging to a bunch of baggage, generally makes any one of the mentioned someone else’s problem, and almost all of it is driven by fear terror and a pinch of self loathing.
Why she makes such a good character for this comic is when she is fearful she has a mechanism for clinging and expounding to others (the very thing I listed as making her easy to write off) which activates the casts many finer features or drama. Not only that when she is in her most lucid moments she tends to be even more nuanced about her place in life compared to a lot of the cast due to her unique origin and upbringing in a very human way.
Ultimately I want Becky to get over some of this because her flaws have kind of worn thin on me a bit and when she’s bad she is unquestionably ‘ugly’. Not that I wish she was already grown up entirely mind you. Just enough that when she’s having one of her flaw based reactions that it reads less of a ‘blinded by my emotions so hard I’m practically monologing’ and more of an interaction.
Best part of a more grown Becky would be that she’s the type to cringe at her past self in really funny ways as far as I can tell.
It’s very funny to me how this starts off with “Rough day for Becky in the comments” and then has that third paragraph. Not that your opinion is wrong (not one that I share, but understandable), I’m just amused by an opening like that leading in part to such a harsh take. XD
I will say I think they are wrong!
I just don’t have the spoons to flesh out a counter-analysis currently, which generally leaves me in “okay, yeah, bro, whatever” territory with these things.
Becky is an inarguably flawed person. Flaws can make a character interesting and even ‘a good character’ in a piece of entertainment. I like Becky as a character. I find her struggle very relatable.
That’s all great and obvious, but your characterization of her flaws is not one I share.
It is always interesting to see people taking these scenes as exclusively character traits and not characters-as-mouthpieces for real life trends. It is falling from relevance as the queer community rallies, but in the teens and early 20s of this fine century there was a lot of backlash towards trans women from cis lesbians for referring to themselves as lesbians.
It led to a lot of struggle by many in the cis binary gay community to hold both respect and support for trans and nonbinary members of LGBTQIA, as well as their own strictly binary and largely biology-based views on attraction. “If someone born with a peen can be a lesbian, then what is the point of the decades of struggle against stuff like conversion therapy and closeted marriages?”
For my part, I’m reading this entire plotline with Becky as a mouthpiece to explore that, much like the Incelerator as a means of commenting on the mediocrity of impotent grifters peddling misogyny.
It isn’t shoehorning, Becky is an excellent character to explore this with – she is a straight up girl-loving girl who still relies pretty heavily on dogma and binary concepts to navigate her world. This isn’t a minority of people who feel/felt this way, and is a lot of the power that has come up behind the likes of JKR over the last ten years, and other anti-trans talking heads. But the community has grown in the face of the challenge of accepting the entire gender spectrum and what that means for sexuality, and it feels like we don’t see nearly as much fighting between cis and trans lesbians anymore.
Now what would be interesting is to see commentary on how trans men are actually pretty much invisible in discussions about trans rights. I believe part of that is intentional – due to the obsessive focus by society on the female form while having much easier acceptance of a wider variety of male forms, it tends to be much easier for trans men to pass than trans women, as soon as the T kicks in vocal changes during second puberty, many trans men read as men. And if you aren’t being actively persecuted but are likely to be if you were more visible, why would you put a spotlight on yourself? The rest of it feels like baggage that comes from still being associated with the AGAB, in that the anti-trans sector especially infantilises women and therefore just largely ignores trans men, while men are viewed as having the power and so trans women get much more pushback for still being seen as “male” by anti-trans factions.
Anyway. This is a good topic to explore, but the lesson must ultimately be that a person’s identity is a personal thing and not a growth lesson itself, yes sexuality can be fluid but it is also fine to be rigid – no one is obligated to love or be attracted to another.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but isn’t Becky kind of doing the opposite of what you’re talking about? There are no trans women referring to themselves as lesbians here. Becky is thinking that if Dina came out as a trans man, she’d be “nope”, because Dina would be a dude. That’s not part of this fight between trans and cis lesbians – if anything the particular cis lesbians you’re talking about wouldn’t be on Becky’s side here, because (at least theoretically) they’d see a trans masc Dina as still “really” a woman, so Becky could still be a lesbian.
As a side note, it never really was a fight between cis and trans lesbians, but mostly straight cis women (or even straight cis men) using a handful of cis lesbians as cover.
Even in the UK, which was the reigning king of transphobia until the US made the mistake of electing its first felon, cis lesbians are the least transphobic cis people.
due to the obsessive focus by society on the female form while having much easier acceptance of a wider variety of male forms, it tends to be much easier for trans men to pass than trans women, as soon as the T kicks in vocal changes during second puberty, many trans men read as men
[citation needed]
(Trans men’s erasure means a lot of violence faced by trans men is also erased and reported as violence against women, but there are literally no actual axes upon which you can say “trans women have it worse” OR “trans men have it worse”, only axes upon which you can say “we’ve got less data about this group”. Rates of murder and sexual assault and so on are reported at varying levels depending on how studies are conducted.)
(But the Oppression Olympics help no one. How about we all just focus on supporting each other, instead of arguing over who has it worse.)
A lot of what you’re saying here hits me in the “orange flag” territory, but the one thing I’ll comment on is that: There is nothing wrong with reading a comic like a comic and not like a series of culturally relevant mouthpieces.
I would even say that a mix is ideal, and probably the most common way, but if you have to choose (because someone is holding the binary-choice gun to your head) then I guess just pick the one that makes you happiest.
I’ll definitely admit, non-binary and trans* discussions unlocked a serious amount of uncertainty in me as a very cis “Liking traditionally male things does not make me any less of a woman” woman.
Like… When you spend your whole life arguing with people that “Cutting my hair short doesn’t makes me less of a woman!!” or “Liking videogames doesn’t make me less of a woman” or “Not liking dresses doesn’t make me less of a woman!!!” it gets really weird when you start meeting people who say “I don’t really identify as a woman because I feel more like me with my hair short and wearing androgynous clothes, and I like cars and fishing”
The two views feel really incompatible. But also… My general conclusion is “People know their own mind, and it’s not really hurting anything to let them be who they are.”
If anything, Dina is probably just agender or gender-meh, and this is probably just Becky worrying about something that wouldn’t happen.
…I’m not going to say you’ve never met a trans person who said exactly that. I’m also not going to say you’ve never met a trans person who meant exactly that.
I will say that it’s not common. That usually what people mean is that they get a little surge of gender euphoria from doing something that they, personally, strongly associate with the gender in question.
And also that trans people’s gender is EXTREMELY policed by society. When we try to transition, we learn to say stuff like “I always knew I was a girl because I liked wearing dresses,” even if in fact we don’t like wearing dresses at all, because the first narrative? Is one that cis people have more experience with and tend to recognize as more legitimate. Getting approved for HRT often requires a degree of hyperfeminine or hypermasculine social transition, and people have shared horror stories about how they didn’t feel up to doing a full face of makeup one day, and their psychiatrist immediately penalized them with extra delays because “you just don’t seem SERIOUS about transitioning”.
So, let’s remember to take all this stuff into consideration when we hear someone talk about how short hair or a “feminine” hobby affirms or confirms their gender.
I’ve also met a lot of nonbinary people who’ve said that when explaining how they knew they weren’t cis. It is really common in my experience, at least young people who are still figuring it out (which is the kind of person you’re around when you’re also figuring it out). People are not very good at explaining their internal experiences. I agree that that isn’t what most people who say it really mean — but it is incredibly difficult to realize that no one really means it when everyone around you is saying it, and not just as a throwaway line but as their one-and-only (shared) explanation.
I agree that that isn’t what most people who say it really mean — but it is incredibly difficult to realize that no one really means it when everyone around you is saying it
I left space for that possibility explicitly, even though I personally have never encountered anyone who said these things, and tried to explain why it can sound like this when I don’t think it ever really is.
Sigh. Obviously I’ve encountered people who have said things I think are easy to misinterpret as “I don’t like makeup, therefore I’m not a woman”. If I’d never heard anyone saying anything similar, I wouldn’t think I had any insight to offer here at all.
I’ve definitely met trans people who explained it exactly like that. And yes, it was VERY disorienting as someone who grew up on “Women can be anything we want to be, and it doesn’t make us less of women to not like dresses/like cars/whatever.” I had a very involved conversation with a sibling who basically started there and I spent the whole hour trying to respectfully say “But… How does that make you not a woman?”
I’ve recalibrated now. But that was exactly how many non-binaries and trans people explained it to me, and I was like “I don’t want to argue that you aren’t trans, but I don’t understand how that makes you not a woman???? I don’t like wearing make-up either, but I’m not a man because of it???”
Gender is complicated
Yes, I understand your expressed viewpoint. I tried to explain why people might be saying that, or why they might at least be saying something that sounded like it.
It’s not “makeup = woman”, it’s societal expectations currently strongly associate the two, and wearing makeup can REALLY change how you look in the mirror (especially if you’re skilled in its application), and changing how you look in the mirror can induce feelings of either euphoria or dysphoria.
Maybe I’m just saying completely unnecessary stuff and you’ve already come to understand all of this on your own, but honestly your comments have sounded to me like “I still don’t get it, and I’ve made peace with not getting it”? So I was responding to that.
I do get it. I still kinda hate that this is the go to explanation because it makes me feel like… I don’t, like I’m trying to be anti-trans because I don’t think liking dolls, pink or dresses are a critical part of being a woman.
The whole “When I look at pictures of women I don’t feel like I belong to that group” idea makes so much more sense to me
Right, but even the explanation you’re hearing still isn’t actually “liking dolls/dresses/pink is a critical part of being a woman”.
It’s “society has so strongly associated these things with being a woman that partaking in them makes me feel more feminine, which in turn makes me feel more like a woman”.
Ahh, okay, that makes sense. “I feel more like I am who I should be when I engage in these things.”
There’s still a bit of “What’s wrong with being a man who likes wearing dresses?” in my mind… But meh. I’m also happy to write it off as “Trying explain an emotion I will likely never feel is difficult”
“What’s wrong with being a man who likes wearing dresses?”
I mean, you’re really preaching to the choir there. The vaaaaaast majority of gender-policing, and esepcially the stuff that has any actual societal power, is coming from queerphobic cis people.
Trans folks aren’t the ones who divide clothing into “men’s” and “women’s”, and trans folks aren’t the ones who insist on putting all the dresses into the “women’s” section. Trans folks aren’t the ones who frequently assault cis men for wearing dresses. It wasn’t trans folk who raided Stonewall Inn to arrest the cross-dressers.
If you want to live in a world where dresses are no longer seen as “women’s” clothing, 99% of the people opposed to that are cis queerphobes.
A handful of dysphoric trans people who hew closer to what seem like stereotypes? They’re a drop in the bucket.
But as for the feeling — honestly, I don’t think it’s too hard to explain? It just hasn’t been framed in a way that clicks for you.
You’ve talked about not liking pink, but was there never a time in your childhood when you hated it?
The strength of that feeling had nothing to do with pink itself, right? It’s not that pink is an ugly color. And there’s nothing inherently feminine about pink, either — in fact, until WWII or so, “pink” was treated like other pastel shades, where it was considered “pale red” instead of “a completely separate color”, and as “pale red”, it was a perfectly masculine option for baby clothes. Pale blue, meanwhile, was associated with the Virgin Mary, and therefore feminine.
But in the 1980s, say, pink was EXTREMELY feminized. And as a result, for little girls, it was inescapable. The “girl” section of any given toy store was almost entirely pink. The “girl” section of any given clothing store was almost entirely pink. People expected you to wear pink, and they expected you to play with pink toys. And the toys often weren’t just pink — they were dolls instead of action figures, toy kitchen appliances instead of Nerf guns. Toys that are… not necessarily less fun? But less active. Less action-oriented. Even though little kids are pretty indistinguishable, with little girls able to run just as fast as little boys, a lot of “girl” toys discourage running and rough-housing.
So, pink stops being just a color, and starts to have all this baggage. There’s nothing inherently passive or stereotypically girly about pink, but the association is REALLY strong. And being forced to wear pink — which some of us are! — is in fact a type of societally approved, forced feminization.
Now. You probably don’t hate pink as much as you used to. For most of us, the intensity of our anti-pink sentiment fades as we get older… not necessarily because we “grow out of it”, but because pink stops being mandatory and inescapable.
But imagine for a moment that it didn’t. Imagine if the “women’s” section of a clothing store was still 90% pink. Imagine if, when you went to buy a cell phone, they only came in pink and blue, and store clerks would not only assume you must want a pink phone, but also get weird and hostile if you tried to buy a blue one. Imagine having to make up excuses, like, “oh, this is for my boyfriend,” when you don’t even have a boyfriend.
I feel like in that world, you’d still hate pink.
I think in that world, if you said you just wanted to be able to buy a less femininized phone, and someone else tried to protest that pink is just a color and it’s stereotyping to call it feminine….
Well. You can see why that might sound silly, right? You’re not the one who decided pink was feminine!
Fucking stop with “just agender,” I don’t think you understand what that means to people.
Very good callout, Yumi, I missed that and I’m sorry for not saying something earlier.
Uh…. I specifically said Dina is probably “just agender” because Becky seems worried that being a little meh about gender is a slippery slope to Dina deciding she wants to transition to being a man.
Not something about agender being lesser or anything… Just I don’t think Dina cares much about gender one way or another, and this slippery slope is likely “just” paranoia.
Like, literally using it as a statement of comparison in the slope that the character has already laid out. It’s not a statement about agender and it’s implicit value.
It seems to position it as a less nonbinary, less trans option. And some people might feel that way, but that’s not innate to it. I am agender, and I am VERY STRONGLY not a woman. I am nonbinary and trans. Your statement of it as a comparison in the slope is my issue.
Then take it up with Becky, who implied that Dina cutting her hair might make her masc, then NB, then trans? The slope is hers, not mine.
Dina does not seem to care about gender. Period. I don’t think she cares about being a woman. I don’t think that is because she secretly wants to be a man, because I think “wanting to be a man” implies that a level of concern for her gender that I don’t think she has.
You may be nonbinary and feel that makes you a third gender, or that you are no gender, and all of that is an acceptable version of non-binary. I specifically said “gender-meh” because there are non-binary people who just do not care what gender they are. There’s also gender fluid. I was not trying to represent EVERY SINGLE VERSION of nonbinary that exists. I was trying to put Dina into a specific version of non-binary, and “just” can be used to say “simply” or “only” or “exactly”.
I can’t stop you from trying to make me into some horrible bigot because I used the word “just” in describing a fictional character. I did not even REMOTELY imply that it is “less nonbinary”, what the fuck even is that? Nonbinary is an umbrella, agender is a specific aspect of nonbinary. TRANS is also an umbrella, and Nonbinary is a part of that umbrella, and agender is a part of that. Not every nonbinary person is agender, nor is every trans person agender, so yes, “just” is an appropriate way to say “she is this exact part of the greater terminology.” Not “She is not trans*” or “she is not non-binary,” because agender, as you said, is also trans and nonbinary. Literally all of the negative context here is yours.
I don’t think you’re a horrible bigot. I do think you said something hurtful. If you had said “just nonbinary” there, do you see how that might be an issue? Or do you think Dina being nonbinary would be a non-issue for Becky? I think Dina being not a woman could be an issue for Becky with how she holds onto the “only into ladies” part of her identity. It would be more to explore.
If you want to say gender-meh or such, you can say that. But I actually do think Dina is a woman, if unconcerned with gender presentation, drawing from when she recently said, “even if I am secure in my girlness.” https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/rock-solid/
I understand my tone was harsh and that felt bad to you. I do object to how you phrased your first comment. If you’d like to discuss it further, you can comment under today’s strip.
Backspaced over: I think you wanted to convey Dina’s attitude about gender, but the identity doesn’t convey that.
Becky ALSO implies that Nonbinary is not an issue, it’s the “Now you’re a dude” where she draws a strong line.
Dina also might just identify as a woman! And again, I use the term “just” because the manner in which I am using this English word allows it to be used in a context that means “this specific thing” or “only” and not exclusively in a “this thing which is less than another thing.”
I’m sorry I said something you found hurtful, but I think if you’re going to start attacking the people on your side because you’re reading what they said in the worst possible light… you’re going to have fewer people on your side. My loyalty to trans* people ain’t that fickle. But “just” meaning “only” is not exactly a strange use of the word.
And if you had said “only,” my issue would have been the same. That’s not the problem, and I guess at this point, we won’t be understanding each other.
I also don’t read Becky as implying that nonbinary isn’t an issue– I think she doesn’t really consider it, which would make sense for someone who has probably only been aware of it for a few months.
I feel like you’re putting a lot of negative connotation on what should actually just be a neutral term? Like… Dina may only identify as a woman. I also only identify as a woman. Being one thing to the exclusion of another thing is not inherently negative, unless you consider being a woman a negative, or being non-binary as a negative, or being agender as a negative…
So far as I know, nothing I said implied any of things are a negative. Like, maybe on a grand, societal scale, someone out there is implying this… But these aren’t inherently negative, I don’t consider them to be negatives, so why would it be a negative thing to only be those?
Like imagine there’s a grey ball on the table, and someone says “Look, red ball!” It’s not incorrect to say “No, that’s just a ball.” It’s not a bad thing that it’s not red. You could argue that “That’s a grey ball” might be more accurate, but in this case… there wasn’t another relevant part of the descriptor for the statement I was making? I wanted to say “I think if she’s anything other than currently stated, she’s only this, not that other thing Becky was implying.” One is not less than the other. “Only” is not a moral judgement, there was no “this is better than the other option” meant.
But you may be right that she only identifies as a woman, and only ever will. There was some other lines Dina has made that made me feel that her gender is just sort of irrelevant to her, but I would need to deep dive it.
Let’s take the “only” and “just” out of it, as it’s completely missing my point. And I understand I might not have been clear; honestly, I just broke down crying over this conversation, so I might not be getting my thoughts across as best as possible.
Agender is not the same as gender-meh or disinterested or not having strong feelings about it. People can feel that way *and* identify as agender, but it is an exhausting assumption to deal with as a given. I have very strong feelings relating to gender and a lack thereof. Agender is not only (to bring it back to the only, I guess) the point you are describing, nor is it the exclusive descriptor of that point. Dina could be agender, and we still wouldn’t know if she wants to medically transition or make changes in how her gender is perceived. (I don’t think she is, and I don’t think she wants to transition, and while I think she’s a woman, I could see her finding gender irrelevant– but that attitude doesn’t auto equate to agender.)
But I will retract some of the “less nonbinary” stuff (which yeah, I’ve absolutely gotten, or like “not really nonbinary” or whatever) if you think the same statement would have been fair using “nonbinary or gender-meh” and that nonbinary wouldn’t be an issue for Becky, like you said. (I do think it would be, but I can see how there’s room to consider there).
Oof, I’m sorry this is hitting you so hard. That is not fun.
Honestly, I went looking for what Dina said that make me think she may be “gender meh,” and I’m like, 4 years back in the archives and not finding it. It was really early on, just a very factual statement about how “she has been told that she is a woman and has no reason to dispute it” or something to the like. And honestly, at this point I could be misremembering it entirely, but it was something that stuck in my brain as character defining. I’ll keep looking, but the quote you pulled is also pretty explicit in that she sees herself as a woman.
Anyways, you’re right! Agender isn’t quite the term I was looking for, because it does encompass both people who are certain that they fit no category (which I’d probably has called nongendered), and what I was trying to describe as being more unconcerned and just see themselves as “Something, it’s sorta nebulous, anyways, society says I’m this so I may as well call myself this”. Unfortunately… I don’t know a good term for what I wanted to express other than “gender meh” (which I think I’m stealing from EGS), so I pulled agender as an umbrella term. I didn’t mean to say all agender people don’t care about gender, sorry. I know there’s a range within that, I meant to refine the definition of agender I was using, not lump every agender person into one category.
I mean, it’s really all just sorta messy all over, because no one seems to really be able to define what it means to be (or not be) a woman, other than “I just know”. My own definition of “What it means to be a woman” is just “Society said I’m a woman, so gosh darn it, I’m drawing carving out a section of the definition that includes all of me.” Which… Isn’t really a great definition of what makes me a woman, because I could have been exactly the same person, but society said I was a man, and I’d still draw a line in the sand that says men can be everything that I am? Because spite and stubbornness and from growing up being told “men/women can be anything they want to be.”
But yeah, I don’t think agender is any less non-binary, it’s just part of a bigger umbrella. And I don’t think every agender person doesn’t actually care about their gender, just that some of them (us? I guess I’m also saying I’m a bit gender-meh, but also stubborn) do feel that way.
And I don’t really think Becky would be opposed to Dina being more masc. I guess maybe she’d be iffy with nonbinary, but there’s so many things that fit under non-binary that it’s hard to really say. Like, I don’t think she’d mind Dina going butch. She probably would be okay with she/they pronouns. Would she hate they/them pronouns? She/they/he/any? What about genderfluid, where sometimes Dina wants to be a him? They/him feels too far over the line. Obvious he/him is right out. We’d clearly need Dina level of testing on the line to know when it stops being okay. (That’s mostly sarcastic)
I guess it’s only fair that if Dotty goes into her sexuality panic Becky has one as well. Rivals and all that.
I mean… there’s another option between being alone entirely and glomping into a relationship.
Y’all can just be friends.
But I understand she’s kinda going through a few issues in regards to her family… dying.
Sure, but they’re already dating and really into one another? The possibility of friendship isn’t just going to magically make it not hurt to have to split up or face finding someone you loved has changed beyond your ability to continue staying together.
Like… even without the trauma it’s really normal to not look forward to potentially breaking up.
Life was so much easier before people jumped to the conclusion you might be trans bc you were wearing something typical for the other gender like, once.
I frankly think it’s better that before when most people denied that trans people even existed or were anything else that sexual deviants. At least now some actually considering it an real possibility.
I think there’s a vast chasm between ignoring what people tell you, repeatedly, about their gender and using a single, to stress it, ONE moment where someone wears clothing usually attributed to another gender and jumping to conclusions.
Or did I miss several instances of Dina wearing traditionally male attire or talking about exploring gender?
“If this is a trend, it sure beats the old trend where people lived their lives in confused silent shame.”