bets on whether Sal is great or terrible at bowling
Needfuldoer
Did they remember to invite her?
Zaxares
Yeah, I actually don’t remember whether they actually asked Sal, and in fact, I seem to remember a “Oh crap, Joyce thinks that Asma is referring to someone else other than Sal” thought process, which means Asma might be in for some serious disappointment.
thejeff
Backwards. Asma was thinking off Alice, but a lot of us assume Joyce matched Sal to the description.
And if they invited anyone, they did it off-panel. Possibly to preserve the reveal they invited the wrong person.
Step by step, Dorothy’s working on that internalized ableism! As for friendship, I tend to find that meeting people with similar interests and hobbies tends to work.
Given that we’re starting out with Joyce rewriting the historical context to fit her narrative, I assume that Joyce will continue to make weird assumptions about how this SHOULD work that Asma will continue to find offputting.
near as I can figure, Joyce’s first on-screen interaction with Dorothy involved going :P and saying “take that, liberal elite” here https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/indicator/
which is honestly a relief, ‘cuz for a minute there I was worried they didn’t talk to each other until That Party
Arianod
Their first “proper” interaction was Dorothy saying she was an atheist and Joyce instantly bluescreening abot it, which makes things ten times funnier ^^
Oh, wow, that strip is so long ago Willis didn’t have his giant buffer yet.
Freemage
I don’t think this is a huge rewrite of their history:
In Dexter, she said “Hi” in a friendly fashion.
In Indicator, she wasn’t talking directly to Dorothy, but to the universe (and all the liberal elites therein) at large.
In Gasp, she approaches Dorothy to start a conversation about class, and gets blue-screened by the discovery that Dotty’s an atheist.
And in Boo, the very next day, she does, indeed, approach Dorothy, who SHOULD be her immediate nemesis, and ‘invites her to dinner.
I think she can stay on pretty even footing here with “I asked you out”. Her rationale that Dorothy ‘seems nice’ is just that–she was likely attracted to Dotty from the start, but had absolutely no means of comprehending that.
Astariel
Their actual first interaction was even earlier, at the first hall meeting, when they and Dina were the only ones to show up without coercion by Ruth.
For most sites, some calm, moderately respectful discussion of the matters at hand.
For this place, multiple conflagrations and at least seven shots-fired incidents.
Azhrei Vep
Correction: For most sites, nothing at all. Every few dozen pages or so, a random drive-by comment. And maybe one or two pages that became memes somehow having a pile of references to the meme it became.
thejeff
What Internet are you using where calm respectful discussion of the issues at hand is normal?
apocryphascribe
I would like to live on your utopian version of the internet where most comment sections are like that, because that has never been my experience in all 30 years I’ve been on this thing.
clif
My experience also, but this is a more interesting place to live. Wouldn’t trade.
1. Dorothy please do not indulge Joyce’s cute but eyeroll-inducing rewrite of history
2. DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT DO THE ONE, EXACTLY ONE, THING ASMA ASKED OF YOU AS A PRECONDITION FOR THIS SOCIAL INTERACTION
It’s certainly a rewrite of the CONTEXT of that history.
AK
As Joyce has decided she likes doing a lot. Sigh.
Doopyboop
Mainly a response to the AK guy but man, god forbid someone who recently realized they were bi look back on their interactions with their first girl crush and realize “oh I definitely had a crush on her”.
Big Z
As Sirksome points out elsewhere, this behavior isn’t even about her current thing with Dorothy — this is how Joyce has treated EVERY relationship she’s been in, one way or another. It’s practically her defining personality trait that she is continually running a version of reality in her head where she’s always the protagonist who gets the true wuv.
I have very little interest in humoring Joyce’s determination to reframe her and Dorothy’s history as one of head over heels love at first sight, especially when I think that does a genuine disservice to how their relationship actually developed and makes for a far less interesting narrative.
Doopyboop
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Joyce has had a crush on Dorothy for a long, long time in-comic.
Sirksome
I think both can be true and are. Joyce has had a long standing unrequited crush on Dorothy neither fully understood and she’s also lying and rewriting their history as love at first sight which it definitely wasn’t unless mutual fear of Ruth’s reputation really gets the love flowing.
Jon
No kinkshaming, Sirksome. It takes all kinds.
Cbwroses
Fear of Ruth kinda worked on Jennifer, so that’s not impossible.
dLileh
If I had invited my partner for dinner in a completely platonic way years before we came together, I would definately reframe it as “I asked you out.”. Obviously, he would know that this is twisting of the truth, but it would be fun nonetheless…
In reality our first date was very obviously a first date. ¯\(ツ)/¯ But we do play with twisted interpretations of past event as a way of flirting <3
thejeff
@dLileh: But the problem here is that Joyce is doing it seriously, not
playfully.
Or at least, that’s how I read it.
Li
Looks at panel 2 Joyce, followed by that c: smile in panel 3
.
I’m not sure “Joyce definitely isn’t saying this as a way to flirt teasingly with Dorothy” is a reading that holds up.
Big Z
@Li: I’m honestly kinda reading it as both? Like, “I realized I’ve had a crush on you since day one”, except it feels very Joyce to say that as both a flirt and as a recontextualization of their history to make it part of the Love Story.
Li
@Big Z: what I replied to was thejeff baldy asserting that “but the problem is Joyce is doing it seriously, not playfully. Or at least that’s how it reads to me”, and I am questioning that. I am saying, “Are you sure? Are you sure this even reads as Joyce being ‘serious, not playful’?”
.
I think a lot of folks’ issue with this strip isn’t even about how Joyce is saying it, but their concerns that Mx. Willis wants us all to agree with what they think Joyce is saying.
.
Which, ofc, some Joyce/Dorothy shippers do, at least nominally, because some of us have been rather facetiously pointing out for almost a year now that, technically, Joyce’s first* move with Dortothy was to ask her out.
.
(You’ll notice the “technically” in that sentence. Also the “facetiously”.) (I’m sure someone at some point has tried to make the argument earnestly, but as with “there’s no heterosexual explanation for that”, it’s usually self-deprecating on the part of the person making the “claim”.)
.
Anyway, as I have said repeatedly in other conversations, I don’t think that’s at all what Mx. Willis is aiming for. Honestly, I think this hunt for a character within DoA text who is just a mouthpiece for the author so that we can point to and yell at that character, and the author by proxy, is… an immature way of interrogating texts.
.
P sure that all Mx. Willis is really trying to convey to us with Joyce’s previous comments (the ones that weren’t literally delivered as flirtatious banter to Dorothy) is, and has been, “Joyce continues to be a romantic, and a Calvinist, so she’s going to continue to talk about her life like all the things she does are retroactively predestined.”
I actually kind of hope they haven’t now and that no shenanigans off panel or otherwise were pulled because it would be much funnier to see these two try to bullshit their way out of that awkwardness and also confirm for me that Joyce and Dorothy dating has indeed made them both worse as people which is something I personally desire.
Really relating to Dorothy here. I’ve been trying to figure out how to make friends for decades. It’s a skill I seem to have lost about the time I started high school.
I also really like her mind getting blown in panel 4.
it’s really awesome how the site crashes whenever i try to comment and as a result i can’t edit super obvious typos in my comments with the fancy new edit feature
(it’s supposed to be “once the HAS you in her etc etc” in case that’s not clear)
186 thoughts on “Pointblank”
NGPZ
ASMA AND BOWLING LET’S FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
B)
Bogeywoman
YYYYOOOOOOO!!!
clif
And where is Sal?
Pocky
bets on whether Sal is great or terrible at bowling
Needfuldoer
Did they remember to invite her?
Zaxares
Yeah, I actually don’t remember whether they actually asked Sal, and in fact, I seem to remember a “Oh crap, Joyce thinks that Asma is referring to someone else other than Sal” thought process, which means Asma might be in for some serious disappointment.
thejeff
Backwards. Asma was thinking off Alice, but a lot of us assume Joyce matched Sal to the description.
And if they invited anyone, they did it off-panel. Possibly to preserve the reveal they invited the wrong person.
Odo
Zaxares, I believe Asma wanted to see Alice, but Joyce thought Asma meant Sal.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/nexttime/
Odo
Whoops replied to the wrong person…
Anyway, here is the other relevant strip: https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/help-3/
Doopyboop
Step by step, Dorothy’s working on that internalized ableism! As for friendship, I tend to find that meeting people with similar interests and hobbies tends to work.
ZombieKyrik
This isn’t going to end well, and I am totally here for that.
Anyone want to make a prediction what will go wrong?
Big Z
Given that we’re starting out with Joyce rewriting the historical context to fit her narrative, I assume that Joyce will continue to make weird assumptions about how this SHOULD work that Asma will continue to find offputting.
Qube
near as I can figure, Joyce’s first on-screen interaction with Dorothy involved going :P and saying “take that, liberal elite” here https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/indicator/
which is honestly a relief, ‘cuz for a minute there I was worried they didn’t talk to each other until That Party
Arianod
Their first “proper” interaction was Dorothy saying she was an atheist and Joyce instantly bluescreening abot it, which makes things ten times funnier ^^
Rimwalker55
The class before that
https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/dexter/
Leorale
The time that Joyce is referring to (but now it’s True Love): https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/boo/
Andrusi
Oh, wow, that strip is so long ago Willis didn’t have his giant buffer yet.
Freemage
I don’t think this is a huge rewrite of their history:
In Dexter, she said “Hi” in a friendly fashion.
In Indicator, she wasn’t talking directly to Dorothy, but to the universe (and all the liberal elites therein) at large.
In Gasp, she approaches Dorothy to start a conversation about class, and gets blue-screened by the discovery that Dotty’s an atheist.
And in Boo, the very next day, she does, indeed, approach Dorothy, who SHOULD be her immediate nemesis, and ‘invites her to dinner.
I think she can stay on pretty even footing here with “I asked you out”. Her rationale that Dorothy ‘seems nice’ is just that–she was likely attracted to Dotty from the start, but had absolutely no means of comprehending that.
Astariel
Their actual first interaction was even earlier, at the first hall meeting, when they and Dina were the only ones to show up without coercion by Ruth.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/pizza/
Deanatay
Well, the big one is going to be when Sal shows up instead of Alice.
clif
But see, we’re expecting it, so I expect something out of left field.
moon
*live studio audience goes wild*
RassilonTDavros
Pleeeeease let this be a normal comments section
ZombieKyrik
With the Joyce? No way!
Yumi
With the Joyrothy? No way!
ZombieKyrik
I’m glad we’re on the same page here lol.
Yumi
Sometimes my job involves watching episodes of The Magic School Bus.
Thag Simmons
I feel like the best we can hope for is to be not normal in an interesting way
Sirksome
What qualifies as a normal comment section?
Jon
For most sites, some calm, moderately respectful discussion of the matters at hand.
For this place, multiple conflagrations and at least seven shots-fired incidents.
Azhrei Vep
Correction: For most sites, nothing at all. Every few dozen pages or so, a random drive-by comment. And maybe one or two pages that became memes somehow having a pile of references to the meme it became.
thejeff
What Internet are you using where calm respectful discussion of the issues at hand is normal?
apocryphascribe
I would like to live on your utopian version of the internet where most comment sections are like that, because that has never been my experience in all 30 years I’ve been on this thing.
clif
My experience also, but this is a more interesting place to live. Wouldn’t trade.
Qube
“normal” is just the weird shit you’re used to
NGPZ
this
Tequila Mockingbird
I absolutely sang along to the alt text.
Qube
and those two other boys
that we were dating~
will- will, uh… well shit I didn’t think it out this far
Thing 2
Well, it is way to early to know, but a fairly surly response!
Dot
1. Dorothy please do not indulge Joyce’s cute but eyeroll-inducing rewrite of history
2. DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT DO THE ONE, EXACTLY ONE, THING ASMA ASKED OF YOU AS A PRECONDITION FOR THIS SOCIAL INTERACTION
Doopyboop
https://www.dumbingofage.com/comic/boo/ It isn’t entirely a rewrite of history, Joyce did ask Dorothy out to dinner.
Big Z
It’s certainly a rewrite of the CONTEXT of that history.
AK
As Joyce has decided she likes doing a lot. Sigh.
Doopyboop
Mainly a response to the AK guy but man, god forbid someone who recently realized they were bi look back on their interactions with their first girl crush and realize “oh I definitely had a crush on her”.
Big Z
As Sirksome points out elsewhere, this behavior isn’t even about her current thing with Dorothy — this is how Joyce has treated EVERY relationship she’s been in, one way or another. It’s practically her defining personality trait that she is continually running a version of reality in her head where she’s always the protagonist who gets the true wuv.
Dot
I have very little interest in humoring Joyce’s determination to reframe her and Dorothy’s history as one of head over heels love at first sight, especially when I think that does a genuine disservice to how their relationship actually developed and makes for a far less interesting narrative.
Doopyboop
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Joyce has had a crush on Dorothy for a long, long time in-comic.
Sirksome
I think both can be true and are. Joyce has had a long standing unrequited crush on Dorothy neither fully understood and she’s also lying and rewriting their history as love at first sight which it definitely wasn’t unless mutual fear of Ruth’s reputation really gets the love flowing.
Jon
No kinkshaming, Sirksome. It takes all kinds.
Cbwroses
Fear of Ruth kinda worked on Jennifer, so that’s not impossible.
dLileh
If I had invited my partner for dinner in a completely platonic way years before we came together, I would definately reframe it as “I asked you out.”. Obviously, he would know that this is twisting of the truth, but it would be fun nonetheless…
In reality our first date was very obviously a first date. ¯\(ツ)/¯ But we do play with twisted interpretations of past event as a way of flirting <3
thejeff
@dLileh: But the problem here is that Joyce is doing it seriously, not
playfully.
Or at least, that’s how I read it.
Li
Looks at panel 2 Joyce, followed by that c: smile in panel 3
.
I’m not sure “Joyce definitely isn’t saying this as a way to flirt teasingly with Dorothy” is a reading that holds up.
Big Z
@Li: I’m honestly kinda reading it as both? Like, “I realized I’ve had a crush on you since day one”, except it feels very Joyce to say that as both a flirt and as a recontextualization of their history to make it part of the Love Story.
Li
@Big Z: what I replied to was thejeff baldy asserting that “but the problem is Joyce is doing it seriously, not playfully. Or at least that’s how it reads to me”, and I am questioning that. I am saying, “Are you sure? Are you sure this even reads as Joyce being ‘serious, not playful’?”
.
I think a lot of folks’ issue with this strip isn’t even about how Joyce is saying it, but their concerns that Mx. Willis wants us all to agree with what they think Joyce is saying.
.
Which, ofc, some Joyce/Dorothy shippers do, at least nominally, because some of us have been rather facetiously pointing out for almost a year now that, technically, Joyce’s first* move with Dortothy was to ask her out.
.
(You’ll notice the “technically” in that sentence. Also the “facetiously”.) (I’m sure someone at some point has tried to make the argument earnestly, but as with “there’s no heterosexual explanation for that”, it’s usually self-deprecating on the part of the person making the “claim”.)
.
Anyway, as I have said repeatedly in other conversations, I don’t think that’s at all what Mx. Willis is aiming for. Honestly, I think this hunt for a character within DoA text who is just a mouthpiece for the author so that we can point to and yell at that character, and the author by proxy, is… an immature way of interrogating texts.
.
P sure that all Mx. Willis is really trying to convey to us with Joyce’s previous comments (the ones that weren’t literally delivered as flirtatious banter to Dorothy) is, and has been, “Joyce continues to be a romantic, and a Calvinist, so she’s going to continue to talk about her life like all the things she does are retroactively predestined.”
Sirksome
I actually kind of hope they haven’t now and that no shenanigans off panel or otherwise were pulled because it would be much funnier to see these two try to bullshit their way out of that awkwardness and also confirm for me that Joyce and Dorothy dating has indeed made them both worse as people which is something I personally desire.
Slartibeast Button, BIA
I thought you made friends by assembling bits of stuff stolen from graveyards and waiting for the right lightning storm…
butting
Sometimes. But there’s also the option of taking work home from the Tyrell Corporation and just messing around for the fun of it.
Astariel
Really relating to Dorothy here. I’ve been trying to figure out how to make friends for decades. It’s a skill I seem to have lost about the time I started high school.
I also really like her mind getting blown in panel 4.
Sirksome
Don’t trust point blank…well anything really.
Bogeywoman
Okay, who’s showing up- Alice or Sal? Taking bets.
clif
Jennifer it is.
Alongcameaspider
I think they forgot to ask anyone else
apocryphascribe
They forgot to ask anybody, Asma gets ready to leave, then third character nobody guessed shows up last minute and hijinks ensue.
clif
Look, they could pull in anyone, dress them to Asma’s description and their golden.
clif
*they’re
Freemage
Sal, who has invited Danny along. (Dark horse option–Danny then invited Joe.)
Dara
Point blank can absolutely work. Particularly if both people are new to a location or environment. Doesn’t always, no, but absolutely can.
QueenofSodor
joyce’s pointblank method is definitely an airtight plan, once she you in her crosshairs it’s a sureshot that you’ll be fast friends in no time
QueenofSodor
it’s really awesome how the site crashes whenever i try to comment and as a result i can’t edit super obvious typos in my comments with the fancy new edit feature
(it’s supposed to be “once the HAS you in her etc etc” in case that’s not clear)
QueenofSodor
see now it happened again and there’s yet another glaring typo i can’t fix!!! i miss the old site
clif
But the new site can only get better.
Some day it will be perfect and then Joe will be sorry.