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T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
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Explosm
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David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
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Beka Duke
Desperate for companionship, Frankenstein's Monster pretends to be the Opera Ghost. A grave mistake.
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Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
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Windy, Winter Jay Kiakas
Winona runs a werewolf shelter with partner in crime, Odile in the Gothic city of Merlot. One day they take in an injured vampire, and soon unravels many of the dark secrets of Merlot.
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Serious talk though – you’re right, Joe. She is improving. Unfortunately, that doesn’t obligate anyone hurt on that one in five to forgive. Jacob might, eventually, after he’s had time to cool off (and, well, he did plenty of dickish stuff himself that Joyce wouldn’t be obligated to forgive for), but on the next morning? Yeah, I think he’s still in the acceptable range for ‘still mad and not talking to her’.
Ehhhh. I do get Joe’s point, but I also feel like.. you shouldn’t date someone for their ‘potential’? Like, you date them because they’re good for you NOW. People shouldn’t be projects or ‘they’ll be good later’ or ‘they were good before’. Because then it’ll feel like an imbalance in who’s pulling the weight.
I’m certainly not a fan of people dating a “fixer-upper” with a plan of making them change — “aisle, altar, him” marriages. But I think this is different. Joe is suggesting that Joyce is innately good, that she can recognise her bad habits as bad and correct them. Maybe it’s more of a “date whom she is deep down” suggestion more than a “date who she is going to be” suggestion.
Dunno. I’m not a Joycob shipper, and I think in the end we’re going to see the arc begin and end with Joye, both characters having reformed.
Ooooh. Dude, that’s creepier than the girls I met in college who said they were going for their MRS degree. (They’d picked an awfully expensive place for that major.)
Joyce may or may not have gone to college with the intent on earning a MRS, but let’s not forget she chose to be an education major so she’d be qualified to homeschool her kids someday.
there may also be a soupçon of “If I get her with someone else, I can be content because they’re off the table because I am NOT the kind of person who breaks up an extant relationship”.
Obligate? No, definitely not, but I don’t think Joe is framing any of this like this is something Jacob owes Joyce so much as he thinks Joyce is worth it and that Jacob’s going to regret it if he doesn’t stick around. Obviously, though, Joe’s also looking at this from his own personal feelings about her.
Side-note, I know DoA is supposed to answer the question between Walky and Joyce at the “end” of Walkyverse of “if we’d met under different circumstances, would we still have gotten together?”, but Willis is making it pretty hard to see Joyce together with anyone other than Joe.
Not, by any means, because it’s impossible for such a close relationship to not lead to romance, but because so far we haven’t seen any “realness” or long-term growth between Joyce and any other male character. Heck, her relationship with Joe is probably better developed than her relationships with Dorothy and Becky, by this point.
*Better developed as far as what we’ve seen expressed through the comics, I mean.
Not saying the relationship with Joe is inherently deeper than her relationships with others; I’m pointing out that Willis seems to be heavily highlighting the relationship [romantic or otherwise] between those two without offering any other developing relationships for Joyce (at least, not ones with any potential for eventually developing romantic elements).
Ergo, it ends up feeling very “romance narrative”.
Compare that to Dan, who has ties to Sal, Ethan, Amber, and more. It’s not that any of those are required to develop into romance, or even that the relationships themselves are romantic in nature, but that we see actual [non-romantic] relationship growth between Dan and multiple potential partners. In real life and, likewise, with most relationships in DoA, we see a lot more open connections in that manner.
Heck, even Walky has had multiple romantic relationships, and has even had “hooks” with other characters [such as the dinosaur doodle that Dina appreciated once his work was passed over to her].
Right now, all Joyce really has is Joe, and that’s going to make any “great romance” developments with other characters.. well, as slowly as the in-comic time progresses [outside of time skips], we’ll probably never actually see a second relationship develop to the end. :’P
So, in summary, feels like Willis is currently pushing the development between those two. Definitely curious to see if Willis’ll actually follow that through to the end, or if he’s planning some twists that’ll still connect Joyce over to Walky in the end.
In the vein of maintaining his shallow image, it’s worth noting that Joe is wearing a shirt with an arrow pointing to his dick that says “can lift 120 lbs”
He’s told Joyce that it’s a deliberate act to avoid intimacy multiple times, though. It’s perfectly fair for the characters to take him at face value but I don’t really understand it coming from the readers.
Still doesn’t excuse people making nasty comments [be that towards real or fictional entities] over things that are well understood to be logically false. After all, the topic here is “Is Joe shallow”, not “Is Joe possessed of severe character flaws”. And Joe has decidedly never been presented by Willis as being a shallow character. Despite how he acts, he has always done his best to think things through carefully and act concientiously. In that vein, you’ll notice he has never ever manipulated females to anything against their will [unlike a “real bro”].
While we shouldn’t excuse things such his objectification of women, it has always been clear that he only ever did that at a purely surface level. Be it his best friend’s gender identity or his handling of the women close to him, Joe has always been careful and considerate.
So, again: Fine to criticize the way he lives his life or dislike his character or surface presentation, but arguing that he’s shallow when he’s not [be that for Joe or Mike] just indicates willful trolling or poor reading comprehension on the part of the individuals engaging in such (or, at best, disagreement over the application of the word “shallow”).
So yeah, your comment is entirely on point, as it generally applies to Joe. But it also doesn’t really in any way oppose Mordecai’s assertion that Joe isn’t shallow and that it isn’t appropriate to deem him as such.
In fact, from a literary perspective, Leorale’s comment of “and moreover, he tries super duper hard to convince himself and everyone else that he’s shallow” pretty much ensures that he ISN’T shallow. Complex layers of that sort, contradictory or foolish as they may seem, are pretty much what defines complex literary characters.
The trick here is just to substitute “shallow” with [anything else]. ie, “and moreover, he tries super duper hard to convince himself and everyone else that he’s [a golden retriever from the planet Parsivus V]”. In short, his behavior may be BIZZARE, but it isn’t SHALLOW. Though some people may confuse it as being such, because they’re misassociating his character depth with his character form, rather than interpreting the two elements seperately. Which, for the above example, would be “his perspective seems nonsensical, but at least he has some interesting complexities which make him stand out from other characters”. Regardless of whether he wants to portray himself as shallow or as a dog, what matters (in regards to deterimining a character’s shallowness) is the underlying reasons for the chosen portrayal.
He’s told Joyce that it’s a deliberate act to avoid intimacy multiple times, though. It’s perfectly fair for the characters to take him at face value but I don’t really understand it coming from the readers.
In that case, I can kind of see why Joe gets some of the worst of it. But wow, I feel like I’m going crazy because it seems like his arc is being slept through/on.
Goes along with all the people who think Joe’s behavior has always been perfectly fine, despite those same admissions about his motivations and his acceptance of Joyce’s revelation that he was still hurting people.
Partly it’s that a lot of people are fairly casual readers and the main revelation of his motives was roughly 2 and half years ago, though it’s been referenced a few times since.
Joe might be oblivious to his own feelings for Joyce but Jacob sure isn’t. Still Joe thinks not having a serious relationship is best for him so maybe once Jacob cools off he’ll give Joyce a second chance.
So who is for the Joyce/Jacob ship and who is for the Joyce/Joe ship?
You’d need actual crack to make it work; Joe’s even less “checklist” than Joyce (and meanwhile Joe’s fear of commitment would just lead him to hold Jacob at arm’s length and occasionally sleep with other people he knew just to prove how little he liked him)
Who doesn’t have important things about themselves to work on though, fiction or real life? If that’s the bar for shipping you’ve effectively sunk them all.
I get that. Romance and companionship don’t have any presets for when you’re ready. It’s just my opinion. Especially for these three. Joyce in particular still probably has a lot of trauma about nearly getting date raped by one of the first guys she ever even considered romantically. She hasn’t really talked to anyone about that and that trauma could flare up at anytime. Joe’s doing better but he’s still the guy who rated women, had a do list, and talked about “breaking in” Joyce. (I only remember this because someone linked it yesterday) Jacob’s okay though, I got nothing. Maybe try not to impress your bro so much. I just don’t think dating really helps any of them right now. It might even add some stress on their lives and the lives of their partners. But hey! I could be entirely wrong here. I’m not ashamed to admit that.
On the other hand, Joyce’s horny and still “boy-crazy”. She’s still traumatized, but she’s moved past the initial reaction – dating Ethan because he was safe. Her wanting to date people is going keep coming up.
Joe needs to get past his “I can’t be emotionally involved with women because I’ll hurt them by cheating like my dad does” thing. I doubt he’s going to remain celibate and going back to just seeking casual sex won’t be good for him.
I’ve always been down for the Joe/Joyce shipping. Though it probably will crash and burn before it actually goes anywhere I’m hoping it continues to sail!
You left out the most important part: ‘she keeps trying, she does better, she’ll never stop trying.’
Someone with a good heart who is always trying to better themselves is not a bad bet.
Right. Especially when you remember the comics have been over the course of weeks, and Joyce has made the progress she has. It’s honestly pretty remarkable.
I mean, if we didn’t already know Joe likes Joyce still, this probably would seal it. I do wonder if Jacob’s cognizant of that, or if he’s just considering Joe’s point here.
In any case, I imagine both guys have a lot to think about, and I mean, Joe’s right. Joyce has come a long way, but obviously, that doesn’t necessarily mean Jacob can or should overlook what happened.
Dumping Raidah was still a good move, regardless, though, because good lord.
Hmmm… It would be interesting if Stacy was a result of “youthful indiscretions” on behalf of Carol – nah, not blonde enough… Danny’s mum – no eeeeew then Amber would have had sex with her uncle… Linda maybe? No, same issue with Walky and Amber… Ummm… one of the Book Reading Club of Awful Mothers… Maybe Naomi? Although that would mess her and Ethan up a bit (but at least they didn’t sex it up together)…
Dina’s and Carla’s off the top of my head, though Mrs. Rutten has remained off-screen to date. Amber’s also tries her best, though she doesn’t always get things right.
I don’t think it was “romantic” for Joe to say. I don’t see that Joe retains romantic interest for Joyce at the current point of time, but a hell of a lot of respect. He’d rather have a meaningless fling with Raidah or whoever than Joyce. And he’s not ready for, uh, a meaningful fling? But he does think that she deserves Jacob giving her more of a chance.
My goodness, that wasn’t projection at *all*, Joe!
The thing I want to know is if *Jacob* is aware that it’s projection; we’ve established that Jacob actually isn’t that strong on emotional intelligence– like, if the situation were reversed, Joe would 100% cotton on that that was a projection-fueled speech. Jacob… is not really that aware of his own emotions or those of people around him.
He’s been a little oblivious, true, but he might pick up on it here given current events have this stuff on his mind more.
Hmm, also, Joyce DID say how she initially was trying to get Jacob and Joyce to get together, to Jacob’s surprise, when Joyce was talking to Harrison. Might spark an idea or two.
Joe isn’t interested in Joyce because he knows that a perfect Joyce would kick a perfect Joe to the curb. He sees himself, rightly or wrongly, as a ladies man; a Lothario, a stud. For him to be with Joyce he’d have to change his self image beyond recognition. Maybe he’ll be ready for that in a decade or two, especially if his dad changes first and shows him the way, but not now.
Nevertheless, while he can see that Joyce isn’t right for himself, he can see that she and Jacob would be perfect. And he likes and respects each of them enough to want them to be happy together.
That’s honestly not my read on it. I think that Joe thinks she’s trash who will hurt people, so he doesn’t want to get in close. He’s been very cynical about the idea people change (something he shares in common with Rachel, his other continuity paramour), but in the face of Joyce’s crisis of faith, I think he’s been having his own doubts, as well, only in his cynical outlook.
After all, it’s hard to think people never change when you’re around someone who has changed a lot over a month or two.
I think there’s a difference between “surely they’ll get better” and “look how far they’ve come in the last month”. One is just wishful thinking, the other is pointing at evidence.
but also sometimes i remember than in another universe, joyce and joe were/are an item and that…warms my cold, unfeeling heart a tiny bit on willis’ unfeeling plot train
Willis recently reran a story-arc which showed that in one of the alternate universes (specifically, the one Head Alien II of Shortpacked! originally hailed from), Joyce and Joe were the Official Couple(tm) instead of Joyce and Walky.
Consider yourself warned, Jacob. Come on, if nobody’s going to act on Joe’s warnings, he will have to try again with Joyce, and this time the punches won’t be to his face.
I honestly think that Jacob is too surprised to hear Joe’s defence of Joyce to utter the obvious question: “Joe, if you like her so much, why aren’t you dating her?”
I’m just thinking of the long-term consequences of Amber being Joyce’s future step-sister-in-law! If nothing else, it would lead to interesting family gatherings!
Both of these objections can be modified with the phrase “up until now”. Both may change but whether either of them will be happy with the outcome remains to be seen.
That wasn’t intended as a reason why they might not get together, but why Jacob wouldn’t immediately think of the obvious question – because it’s obvious they wouldn’t. Might not be true, but it’s obvious from what Jacob knows.
We’re about to witness a long-term romantic narrative between Joyce and Joe.
I’ve been waiting for that since It’sWalky. It was so underdevelopped in IW!
Still hoping that Jacob will recognise that he’s being unfair to Joyce and make up with her.
And this is the first time I’ve seen Joe been completely genuine and talking about a woman as a real, full person! The first good-Joe moment since the time he gave out donuts (not that that lasted long). I do hope he continues on this path.
He is… not being unfair to Joyce? She did something messed up, he doesn’t have to forgive her for that even if he *also* didn’t act perfectly either. Especially when it only happened yesterday so it is still very raw.
True though he seems to be sort of blaming her for how he acted. “Leading” him into it or whatever. Joe sees that Jacob might be being too rigid for his own good in this situation. Anyway basically teenagers doing teenage things yeah. It is called Dumbing of Age after all
she lied about being his girlfriend in a moment of greed and panic and he went along with it, it isn’t as though she was dating him and then fucked his brother. She did a very mild teenage girl thing to do, y’all in here talking about it like both of them don’t need to be examining the shit they did that day and that Joyce’s shitty behavior was an eternally damning gesture.
You don’t need to forgive your abusers, Joyce and Jacob are teenagers dealing with teenage problems, not manipulative or abusive – they are in the progress of sorting their shit out.
It’s obvious Joe wishes he could be as good for Joyce as Jacob and that he wishes Joyce looked at him like she looks at Jacob. It’s also obvious to him he’d screw things up as he stands now, it mat be more effort than he’s currently capable of to get past that, and Jacob & Joyce, both of whom he likes as people, would eventually make each other happy.
Honestly, it’s only been two months since the start of the semester. Joyce has gone through a -lot- of improvement in that short amount of time. By Spring Break, you could probably introduce her to a previously unmet minority without her Making a Thing About How She’s Trying Not To Make It A Thing about it!
Me if I ever see Tony Hawk: Hey you’re Tony Hawk the famous skateboarder. That’s right I recognise you. Won’t be able to get any content out of this will you, you piece of shit
How to read all 28 issues of my Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane run on Marvel Unlimited:
1: The first four issues were published as the miniseries "Mary Jane."
www.marvel.com/comics/serie...
today in #9chickweedlane i learned we have to be shown children learning and relearning what sex is, for Reasons, even though they already clearly know and have prepared nuanced questions about it!
also that Gran must hate, if she's still alive, how Old Juliette is the same but with gray hair
one of my favorite things is when a commenter explodes WHEN DO THESE CHARACTERS GET THERAPY but directed towards a character who canonically has a regular therapist
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
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It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
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Pavel
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So, cowgirls up to 120 lbs?
The catagory is things that Joe will regret later?
Skipping leg day, for example.
Methinks the bro protest too much.
Brotest (verb) /ˈbrōˌtest/ – to manspress a testosterobjection.
Isn’t a Brotest the official test you gotta pass to be a Bro?
Nah, the brotest is whoever is brotmost.
Brotest is just the game of life, yo
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1862
Who cares? Oooh, Oooh! I know that one. It’s Joe who cares, right?!
Of course not! Nobody who cares says “who cares” like that, that’s just math! Perfect, uh, math. Whatever.
I mean, she’s clearly a zero anyway. Just check his liiiiiiiiiist
…or whatever she is. We may never know.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/chubby/
WE MAY NEVER KNOW!!!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/lying/
NEVER KNOOOOOOOOW!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/01-pajama-jeans/touch/
I can’t believe I missed that one! Thanks
Christ, I hate Malaya.
Joe doesn’t
He found it an educational experience.
Sure, Joe, it’s Jacob you want to get up in that.
Serious talk though – you’re right, Joe. She is improving. Unfortunately, that doesn’t obligate anyone hurt on that one in five to forgive. Jacob might, eventually, after he’s had time to cool off (and, well, he did plenty of dickish stuff himself that Joyce wouldn’t be obligated to forgive for), but on the next morning? Yeah, I think he’s still in the acceptable range for ‘still mad and not talking to her’.
Stop reminding us that this all only happened yesterday!
Ehhhh. I do get Joe’s point, but I also feel like.. you shouldn’t date someone for their ‘potential’? Like, you date them because they’re good for you NOW. People shouldn’t be projects or ‘they’ll be good later’ or ‘they were good before’. Because then it’ll feel like an imbalance in who’s pulling the weight.
I’m certainly not a fan of people dating a “fixer-upper” with a plan of making them change — “aisle, altar, him” marriages. But I think this is different. Joe is suggesting that Joyce is innately good, that she can recognise her bad habits as bad and correct them. Maybe it’s more of a “date whom she is deep down” suggestion more than a “date who she is going to be” suggestion.
Dunno. I’m not a Joycob shipper, and I think in the end we’re going to see the arc begin and end with Joye, both characters having reformed.
“Aisle, altar, him?” I’ve never heard that expression.
Make sure you say it out loud.
Sing it to the tune of the wedding chorus from Lohengrin.
Ooooh. Dude, that’s creepier than the girls I met in college who said they were going for their MRS degree. (They’d picked an awfully expensive place for that major.)
Joyce may or may not have gone to college with the intent on earning a MRS, but let’s not forget she chose to be an education major so she’d be qualified to homeschool her kids someday.
“aisle, altar, hymn”. It’s an old joke, it’s a summary of how the marriage service starts but he hears her muttering it and panics.
hah! that’s a good one
I meant to type “aisle, altar, hymn”, but you got the point.
Joe projecting onto Jacob is a good mirror of Sarah projecting onto Joyce.
Where’s Robin and her relationship web chart when we need her?
That, uh. That wasn’t Robin. Robin doesn’t do charts.
Unless I’m missing something, pretty sure this is Robin.
(see also: all the strips tagged under “chalkboard”, which specifically tracks Robin’s chart)
Faz got started on it, but there’s no guarantee he’ll ever complete the chart.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/heck/
In that Robin’s world, it was Jacob trying to ditch the person he “loved” because he thought he wasn’t good enough for her.
there may also be a soupçon of “If I get her with someone else, I can be content because they’re off the table because I am NOT the kind of person who breaks up an extant relationship”.
Yes, that goes for Sarah AND Joe.
Obligate? No, definitely not, but I don’t think Joe is framing any of this like this is something Jacob owes Joyce so much as he thinks Joyce is worth it and that Jacob’s going to regret it if he doesn’t stick around. Obviously, though, Joe’s also looking at this from his own personal feelings about her.
Yeah. Joe be projecting.
Jojecting?
Projoecting.
Brojecting
Sometimes I forget Joe is one of my favorites.
I don’t
I don’t either. ^.^
Side-note, I know DoA is supposed to answer the question between Walky and Joyce at the “end” of Walkyverse of “if we’d met under different circumstances, would we still have gotten together?”, but Willis is making it pretty hard to see Joyce together with anyone other than Joe.
Not, by any means, because it’s impossible for such a close relationship to not lead to romance, but because so far we haven’t seen any “realness” or long-term growth between Joyce and any other male character. Heck, her relationship with Joe is probably better developed than her relationships with Dorothy and Becky, by this point.
*Better developed as far as what we’ve seen expressed through the comics, I mean.
Not saying the relationship with Joe is inherently deeper than her relationships with others; I’m pointing out that Willis seems to be heavily highlighting the relationship [romantic or otherwise] between those two without offering any other developing relationships for Joyce (at least, not ones with any potential for eventually developing romantic elements).
Ergo, it ends up feeling very “romance narrative”.
Compare that to Dan, who has ties to Sal, Ethan, Amber, and more. It’s not that any of those are required to develop into romance, or even that the relationships themselves are romantic in nature, but that we see actual [non-romantic] relationship growth between Dan and multiple potential partners. In real life and, likewise, with most relationships in DoA, we see a lot more open connections in that manner.
Heck, even Walky has had multiple romantic relationships, and has even had “hooks” with other characters [such as the dinosaur doodle that Dina appreciated once his work was passed over to her].
Right now, all Joyce really has is Joe, and that’s going to make any “great romance” developments with other characters.. well, as slowly as the in-comic time progresses [outside of time skips], we’ll probably never actually see a second relationship develop to the end. :’P
So, in summary, feels like Willis is currently pushing the development between those two. Definitely curious to see if Willis’ll actually follow that through to the end, or if he’s planning some twists that’ll still connect Joyce over to Walky in the end.
Am I crazy or do people still think Joe is shallow? Why?
Because he goes out of his way to maintain that image?
In the vein of maintaining his shallow image, it’s worth noting that Joe is wearing a shirt with an arrow pointing to his dick that says “can lift 120 lbs”
He’s told Joyce that it’s a deliberate act to avoid intimacy multiple times, though. It’s perfectly fair for the characters to take him at face value but I don’t really understand it coming from the readers.
Unfortunately, if you act a certain way often enough, that acting is much more who you are than anything you can say about who you are.
Still doesn’t excuse people making nasty comments [be that towards real or fictional entities] over things that are well understood to be logically false. After all, the topic here is “Is Joe shallow”, not “Is Joe possessed of severe character flaws”. And Joe has decidedly never been presented by Willis as being a shallow character. Despite how he acts, he has always done his best to think things through carefully and act concientiously. In that vein, you’ll notice he has never ever manipulated females to anything against their will [unlike a “real bro”].
While we shouldn’t excuse things such his objectification of women, it has always been clear that he only ever did that at a purely surface level. Be it his best friend’s gender identity or his handling of the women close to him, Joe has always been careful and considerate.
So, again: Fine to criticize the way he lives his life or dislike his character or surface presentation, but arguing that he’s shallow when he’s not [be that for Joe or Mike] just indicates willful trolling or poor reading comprehension on the part of the individuals engaging in such (or, at best, disagreement over the application of the word “shallow”).
So yeah, your comment is entirely on point, as it generally applies to Joe. But it also doesn’t really in any way oppose Mordecai’s assertion that Joe isn’t shallow and that it isn’t appropriate to deem him as such.
In fact, from a literary perspective, Leorale’s comment of “and moreover, he tries super duper hard to convince himself and everyone else that he’s shallow” pretty much ensures that he ISN’T shallow. Complex layers of that sort, contradictory or foolish as they may seem, are pretty much what defines complex literary characters.
The trick here is just to substitute “shallow” with [anything else]. ie, “and moreover, he tries super duper hard to convince himself and everyone else that he’s [a golden retriever from the planet Parsivus V]”. In short, his behavior may be BIZZARE, but it isn’t SHALLOW. Though some people may confuse it as being such, because they’re misassociating his character depth with his character form, rather than interpreting the two elements seperately. Which, for the above example, would be “his perspective seems nonsensical, but at least he has some interesting complexities which make him stand out from other characters”. Regardless of whether he wants to portray himself as shallow or as a dog, what matters (in regards to deterimining a character’s shallowness) is the underlying reasons for the chosen portrayal.
Oh, that. Because the readers are kinda uptight.
Because he’s still shallower than most, and moreover, he tries super duper hard to convince himself and everyone else that he’s shallow.
He’s told Joyce that it’s a deliberate act to avoid intimacy multiple times, though. It’s perfectly fair for the characters to take him at face value but I don’t really understand it coming from the readers.
You have far too much faith in the readers and their restraint from projecting random facets of their own lives and worldviews onto these characters.
In that case, I can kind of see why Joe gets some of the worst of it. But wow, I feel like I’m going crazy because it seems like his arc is being slept through/on.
To be fair, Joe’s arc started in book 1 and has been extremely slow burn
“from projecting random facets of their own lives and worldviews onto [others]”
@Jamie :
Wait- You mean that not EVERYONE reads DoA pantless while sipping scotch?!
Er, not that I’m projecting or.. or anything.
I’ve just about knocked over a bottle of Lagavulin 16, and it’s damned hot here.
Goes along with all the people who think Joe’s behavior has always been perfectly fine, despite those same admissions about his motivations and his acceptance of Joyce’s revelation that he was still hurting people.
Partly it’s that a lot of people are fairly casual readers and the main revelation of his motives was roughly 2 and half years ago, though it’s been referenced a few times since.
Damn, Joe.
Holy shit, hell froze over.
In which Joe continues refusing to pass the reverse-Bechdel test
Joe might be oblivious to his own feelings for Joyce but Jacob sure isn’t. Still Joe thinks not having a serious relationship is best for him so maybe once Jacob cools off he’ll give Joyce a second chance.
So who is for the Joyce/Jacob ship and who is for the Joyce/Joe ship?
Where’s the crack Joe/Jacob option?
You’d need actual crack to make it work; Joe’s even less “checklist” than Joyce (and meanwhile Joe’s fear of commitment would just lead him to hold Jacob at arm’s length and occasionally sleep with other people he knew just to prove how little he liked him)
Eh. I don’t think they need to be shipped. All three of them kinda have more important things to work on for themselves than dating.
Who doesn’t have important things about themselves to work on though, fiction or real life? If that’s the bar for shipping you’ve effectively sunk them all.
I get that. Romance and companionship don’t have any presets for when you’re ready. It’s just my opinion. Especially for these three. Joyce in particular still probably has a lot of trauma about nearly getting date raped by one of the first guys she ever even considered romantically. She hasn’t really talked to anyone about that and that trauma could flare up at anytime. Joe’s doing better but he’s still the guy who rated women, had a do list, and talked about “breaking in” Joyce. (I only remember this because someone linked it yesterday) Jacob’s okay though, I got nothing. Maybe try not to impress your bro so much. I just don’t think dating really helps any of them right now. It might even add some stress on their lives and the lives of their partners. But hey! I could be entirely wrong here. I’m not ashamed to admit that.
On the other hand, Joyce’s horny and still “boy-crazy”. She’s still traumatized, but she’s moved past the initial reaction – dating Ethan because he was safe. Her wanting to date people is going keep coming up.
Joe needs to get past his “I can’t be emotionally involved with women because I’ll hurt them by cheating like my dad does” thing. I doubt he’s going to remain celibate and going back to just seeking casual sex won’t be good for him.
He’s definitely not oblivious. He mostly thinks he’s not good enough for her I think
Specifically, that he’ll hurt her by cheating on her because he’s just like his dad.
I’ve always been down for the Joe/Joyce shipping. Though it probably will crash and burn before it actually goes anywhere I’m hoping it continues to sail!
Reverse the genders tho
How?
“Sure, he does fucked up things at a regular rate, but he does them less now. Someday he’ll be the perfect man.”
You left out the most important part: ‘she keeps trying, she does better, she’ll never stop trying.’
Someone with a good heart who is always trying to better themselves is not a bad bet.
Right. Especially when you remember the comics have been over the course of weeks, and Joyce has made the progress she has. It’s honestly pretty remarkable.
So,,,Danny?
I think that’s one of those “it sounds much worse out of context” things though, rather than being due to the gender used.
So in a world where Mike is dead Joe is less misogynistic. I know these two things are unrelated but seems about an faifly even trade.
“Um… Which one of us are you trying to convince?”
Joe’s definitely not still interested in Joyce or anything.
Definitely.
He certainly wouldn’t fantasise about her, either.
I think he probably starts to frequently, then his brain goes ooooooooooh nope and tries to pretend he was fantasizing about basically anyone else.
the most disgusting part of Joe’s fantasies?
The absolute lack of anything more salacious than waking up in bed together, fully clothed, fingers intertwined.
Wow, I didn’t expect this from Joe.
It all really does lead to him and Joyce ending up together!!!
I mean. This webcomic is not expected to ever end, soooooo… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What does Joe’s shirt say? I’m having trouble reading it.
“Can lift 120 lbs.”
And it’s pointing to his dick, as someone else pointed out.
Oh OK. I couldn’t make it out very well and thought it said, “One Lift 120 Abs”…
“Can lift 120 lbs”, also, good timing with your comment before mine.
Are we just not gonna talk about Joe’s shirt?
Wait I might just need to actually read instead of skim the comments, my bad.
I mean, if we didn’t already know Joe likes Joyce still, this probably would seal it. I do wonder if Jacob’s cognizant of that, or if he’s just considering Joe’s point here.
In any case, I imagine both guys have a lot to think about, and I mean, Joe’s right. Joyce has come a long way, but obviously, that doesn’t necessarily mean Jacob can or should overlook what happened.
Dumping Raidah was still a good move, regardless, though, because good lord.
And without Joyce’s lie/fib, they’d still be circling the drain. Doesn’t make Joyce’s move fully right, but goodness came of it.
Oh, yeah, not saying Joyce was justified in doing that, just that Raidah is bad news.
For some reason the third panel made me think of The Terminator.
“Now I’m gonna go try to find someone to have some meaningless sex with.” (So I can keep ignoring these feelings I don’t have.)
This is how we lead to Joe Frieduianly calling out Joyce’s name with someone not named Joyce and having to think about some things.
Joe’s already fantasized about Joyce during one of his slipshines…or so I’ve been told. *cough*
After the actual sex part, iirc.
That was unexpected.
Agreed but at least we know where Joe stands with respect to Joyce. I wonder if he can persuade her to his viewpoint?
“Some day she’ll be perfect”? Wow, Joe’s got it bad
^^^
In my own headcanon, it is Joe who ultimately confronts Carol.
Carol is Sal’s mom. You’re thinking of Naomi.
Linda is Sal’s mom. Naomi is Ethan’s mom. Carol is Joyce’s mom.
….mom mom mom
But who’s Stacy’s mom?
Amber’s grandmother!
Hmmm… It would be interesting if Stacy was a result of “youthful indiscretions” on behalf of
Carol – nah, not blonde enough… Danny’s mum – no eeeeew then Amber would have had sex with her uncle… Linda maybe? No, same issue with Walky and Amber… Ummm…one of the Book Reading Club of Awful Mothers… Maybe Naomi? Although that would mess her and Ethan up a bit (but at least they didn’t sex it up together)……Linda is Sal’s mom. Naomi is Ethan’s mom. Carol is the Browns’ mom.
They’re all three terrible in their own ways, though.
Wait, are there *any* good Moms?
Dina’s and Carla’s off the top of my head, though Mrs. Rutten has remained off-screen to date. Amber’s also tries her best, though she doesn’t always get things right.
Dorothy’s.
Amber’s is definitely the better of that pair. As Becky’s was.
We don’t know anything bad about Joe’s mom.
In most cases we focus on the worse parents because that’s where the drama comes from.
Om! Nom! Mom!
$0.05
$0.05
$0.05
Oh, wait. He’s dead…
…Never mind.
Rigor mortis plus a few bionic enhancements = https://metro.co.uk/2018/01/08/male-sex-robots-unstoppable-bionic-penises-coming-year-7213306/? (It is a news article but possibly NSFW) Line up with your nickels, terrible mothers…
Yup. He is sorely afflicted, alright.
SHIP
SHIP
SHIP
. . . I think Jacob may be getting into the shipping game.
Also that was honestly pretty damn romantic of Joe to say. Now if only he’d shape up and act on it and realize that he isn’t his father.
I don’t think it was “romantic” for Joe to say. I don’t see that Joe retains romantic interest for Joyce at the current point of time, but a hell of a lot of respect. He’d rather have a meaningless fling with Raidah or whoever than Joyce. And he’s not ready for, uh, a meaningful fling? But he does think that she deserves Jacob giving her more of a chance.
Joyce:
“What’s the deal with my brain?
Why am I so obviously insane?”
Jacob ( & Joyce offscreen ) :
“…In a perfect situation
I let love down the drain.
There’s the pitch, slow and straight.
All I have to do is swing
and I’m the hero…”
Joe &: ( Jacob together):
“but I’m the zero.”
Joe ( and Joyce offscrren ):
“Tell me there’s a logic out there.
Leading me to better prepare
For the day that something really special might come.”
Joe , alone :
“Tell me there’s some hope for me.
I don’t wanna be lonely
For the rest of my days on the earth.”
Dina: “perfect situation “
My goodness, that wasn’t projection at *all*, Joe!
The thing I want to know is if *Jacob* is aware that it’s projection; we’ve established that Jacob actually isn’t that strong on emotional intelligence– like, if the situation were reversed, Joe would 100% cotton on that that was a projection-fueled speech. Jacob… is not really that aware of his own emotions or those of people around him.
He’s been a little oblivious, true, but he might pick up on it here given current events have this stuff on his mind more.
Hmm, also, Joyce DID say how she initially was trying to get Jacob and Joyce to get together, to Jacob’s surprise, when Joyce was talking to Harrison. Might spark an idea or two.
Joyce was trying push Jacob and Sarah together.
Oops, that’s what I meant to type, I had a mental lapse.
People just keep saying revealing personal things in front of Jacob. If he could be in all places at all times, there would be no secrets left.
Some of it is Jacob just being in the right spot in all of this, but I think he’s also just one of those dudes who is easy to open up to a bit.
You’re absolutely right! I am still amusing myself imagining Jacob becoming and thereby basically ending the comic.
oh dadgummit. html on this tiny keyboard is hard. *becoming Omnipresent Man! http://www.basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2010/1/10/how-to-write-a-superhero-story.html
Jacob was there too.
Wait, Jacob was where?
This subthread I’ve created is a train wreck. A train wreck full of Omnipresent Jacob.
Jacob is a Nice Guy(tm) and this makes him the sort of person to whom others just blurt out stuff like this!
I don’t think he’s a Nice Guy(tm). I think, though he has his faults, that he’s a genuine nice guy.
Yeah, Nice Guy™ is the last moniker I’d ever apply to Jacob.
Joe isn’t interested in Joyce because he knows that a perfect Joyce would kick a perfect Joe to the curb. He sees himself, rightly or wrongly, as a ladies man; a Lothario, a stud. For him to be with Joyce he’d have to change his self image beyond recognition. Maybe he’ll be ready for that in a decade or two, especially if his dad changes first and shows him the way, but not now.
Nevertheless, while he can see that Joyce isn’t right for himself, he can see that she and Jacob would be perfect. And he likes and respects each of them enough to want them to be happy together.
That’s honestly not my read on it. I think that Joe thinks she’s trash who will hurt people, so he doesn’t want to get in close. He’s been very cynical about the idea people change (something he shares in common with Rachel, his other continuity paramour), but in the face of Joyce’s crisis of faith, I think he’s been having his own doubts, as well, only in his cynical outlook.
After all, it’s hard to think people never change when you’re around someone who has changed a lot over a month or two.
I’m crying because it’s so sweet and a little tragic
I don’t know if “Settle for treatment you don’t approve of now, because surely they’ll get better” is the best advice.
Joe if you want to ask her out, ask her out, don’t butt into someone elses romantic choices about it.
To be fair, I don’t think he’s telling Jacob to be with her. I think he’s telling him to not write her out of his life.
Or maybe I’m being too generous and he’s really talking about himself here.
I think there’s a difference between “surely they’ll get better” and “look how far they’ve come in the last month”. One is just wishful thinking, the other is pointing at evidence.
Joe say something nice, but his shirt in the last panel made the mood change from bittersweet to comedic in just a second.
whoa, joe you’re wing-person-ing for joyce?
but also sometimes i remember than in another universe, joyce and joe were/are an item and that…warms my cold, unfeeling heart a tiny bit on willis’ unfeeling plot train
I don’t think they ever got together in the Walkyverse. It was teased a few times, but they just were close friends.
Unless there was some story arc I completely missed
I remember them dating for a short time.
Then they turned into a sort of Brother-Sister relationship.
There is so much potential in this pairing.
Willis recently reran a story-arc which showed that in one of the alternate universes (specifically, the one Head Alien II of Shortpacked! originally hailed from), Joyce and Joe were the Official Couple(tm) instead of Joyce and Walky.
Ooooh, do you have a link?
Apologies for the lateness of the reply, but here you go: http://www.itswalky.com/comic/fair-and-square/
(Technically that particular storyline began in earnest on the previous page, but that’s the one which confirms Joyce and Joe As An Item.)
yes, this is what i was referencing, thank you
Go to the girl, Joe, before someone beats you to the punch!
tmw the jock gets all philosophical and shit
Awwwww
That was so sweet!
Can i hug Joe?
don’t, he’s all sweaty
JOE YOU GET IN ON THAT.
I WANT MY OTP TO SAIL SINCE MY OTHER SUNK HARDER THAN THE TITANTIC
Consider yourself warned, Jacob. Come on, if nobody’s going to act on Joe’s warnings, he will have to try again with Joyce, and this time the punches won’t be to his face.
I honestly think that Jacob is too surprised to hear Joe’s defence of Joyce to utter the obvious question: “Joe, if you like her so much, why aren’t you dating her?”
I’m just thinking of the long-term consequences of Amber being Joyce’s future step-sister-in-law! If nothing else, it would lead to interesting family gatherings!
The obvious answer would be because Joe doesn’t date and Joyce isn’t interested in casual hookups.
Both of these objections can be modified with the phrase “up until now”. Both may change but whether either of them will be happy with the outcome remains to be seen.
That wasn’t intended as a reason why they might not get together, but why Jacob wouldn’t immediately think of the obvious question – because it’s obvious they wouldn’t. Might not be true, but it’s obvious from what Jacob knows.
Oh my god. Can you imagine the carnage if Joe and Joyce hook up and Joyce is the one to rebuff Joe?
We’re about to witness a long-term romantic narrative between Joyce and Joe.
I’ve been waiting for that since It’sWalky. It was so underdevelopped in IW!
Thank you Willis !
I like how Joe is turning all tsundere on us.
Joe and Sarah should start the reluctant Joyce Fanclub
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/relentless/
(in contrast to the not-at-all-reluctant Joyce fanclub started by Becky)
Jacob: “are you quite sure you are still taking about me?”
That’s an absolutely charming description of Joyce and her journey
JOOOOOOE! JOOOOE! MY DUDE! MY MAN!
JOOOOOOE! JOOOOE! MY DUDE! MY MAN!
If he won’t date her, Jacob can!
It’s beautiful to see Joe so devote, helpful and protective about his friend Joyce. He just need to admit he cares a lot.
Frankly, I don’t see him not admitting it. Caring for someone is not the same as wanting to bed them.
He’s not going to admit it because he also wants to bed her, but also thinks he’d cheat and hurt her.
Can’t take any chance of that happening.
Still hoping that Jacob will recognise that he’s being unfair to Joyce and make up with her.
And this is the first time I’ve seen Joe been completely genuine and talking about a woman as a real, full person! The first good-Joe moment since the time he gave out donuts (not that that lasted long). I do hope he continues on this path.
He is… not being unfair to Joyce? She did something messed up, he doesn’t have to forgive her for that even if he *also* didn’t act perfectly either. Especially when it only happened yesterday so it is still very raw.
Agreed.
True though he seems to be sort of blaming her for how he acted. “Leading” him into it or whatever. Joe sees that Jacob might be being too rigid for his own good in this situation. Anyway basically teenagers doing teenage things yeah. It is called Dumbing of Age after all
she lied about being his girlfriend in a moment of greed and panic and he went along with it, it isn’t as though she was dating him and then fucked his brother. She did a very mild teenage girl thing to do, y’all in here talking about it like both of them don’t need to be examining the shit they did that day and that Joyce’s shitty behavior was an eternally damning gesture.
You don’t need to forgive your abusers, Joyce and Jacob are teenagers dealing with teenage problems, not manipulative or abusive – they are in the progress of sorting their shit out.
A moment of absolute clarity for Joe
I dont ship them
but this is interesting
oh my god that t-shirt
It’s obvious Joe wishes he could be as good for Joyce as Jacob and that he wishes Joyce looked at him like she looks at Jacob. It’s also obvious to him he’d screw things up as he stands now, it mat be more effort than he’s currently capable of to get past that, and Jacob & Joyce, both of whom he likes as people, would eventually make each other happy.
And Jacob is now thinking if he accidentally stumbled in Bizarroland :p where the Joes say deep things and have it bad for the Joyces :p
Honestly, it’s only been two months since the start of the semester. Joyce has gone through a -lot- of improvement in that short amount of time. By Spring Break, you could probably introduce her to a previously unmet minority without her Making a Thing About How She’s Trying Not To Make It A Thing about it!
Hell, by Spring Break, I’m hoping she’s making plans to hang out with her favorite big sister.