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Patrick Willems @patrickhwillems.bsky.social ⋅ 1m
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Josiah Hawthorne @josiahhawthorne.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
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Barb O. Saur 
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Joyce giving away all her secrets like Valentine chocolates
to be fair, if she were one of my friends, there’s a decent chance I wouldn’t have noticed the glasses until she pointed them out
“…Do you have more face than usual? I remember less face.”
After having a thick, curly beard for a few years in college, I shaved it. One of my college friends didn’t recognize me at all, but a friend from high school stared at me for a minute with a somewhat confused look and asked if I got a haircut.
To be fair you did get a haircut… just not the hair that’s usually referred to when people ask that question LOL
Bless this ball of cheer and lack of subterfuge.
Who everyone assumes is still a YEC, and who isn’t correcting anyone on that point.
If anything, her inability to convince Joe that she has secrets makes her secret even more secure.
I feel like Joyce’s beliefs at this point, or her level of self-honesty regarding her beliefs is best expressed by her 1st panel speech bubble if you crossed out the “You’s” and penciled in “I’s” instead
Put in an I for every crossed-out U?
Wouldn’t it be funny if this were all taking place in a university abbreviated IU, whose logo is an I crossed with a U!
I did not know that! Good catch! Also now that im commited to reading Way Too Much into this, the IU logo looks as much like an I crossing out a U as it does a U crossing out an I, *and* the Greek letter conventionally associated with the discipline of psychology. And what does so much of psychology tell us time and again? That projecting our worldview onto others is a basic mechanic of our minds, while integrating outside influence is a fundamental way we relate to ourselves. Wow I am so clever thank you
I mean, she’s demonstrated that she is doubting god and her previous faith, but she still seems pretty adamant about sticking to the anti-science teachings of her previous faith, at least for the time being. I just find it funny that she is beginning to accept the possibility that there might not be a god, or at least in a form recognizable from her youth, but the idea that the horribleness of her church’s teachings extends into academia as well is a step too far.
Once you mention it, yeah. Honestly I don’t consider ‘lies by omission because you’re too anxious to admit anything’s up about this’ in the same boat as other lying due to my brain being REALLY GOOD at bottling things up and masking, but that is a pretty odd position when I think about it. (starts with ‘acting more neurotypical to try and avoid commentary in day to day interactions.’ Continues to ‘no one wants to hear about the amount of pain I’m in on a daily basis, don’t bring it up unless it’s crushing.’ Extends then into things like ‘you’re having an anxiety attack but no one needs to know’ or other such ‘yeah no, I’m fine! (She was not, in fact, fine)’ circumstances, and those tend to come with some self-denial as well. Usually comes bubbling up eventually, almost inevitably worse than if it had been brought up before, but of course they do. I actually am fairly decent at keeping low-stakes secrets as a result if I don’t have to do more to conceal them than say ‘oh, nothing much’ or the like.)
Given how much similar neurodivergency to myself I read off Joyce, does make sense I just lumped that into the same territory: refusal to acknowledge and unpack that mixed with holding the anxiety in because if no one knows, it’s not happening. Fun times.
Bless this couple
I mean, he still doesn’t know she’s atheist, but I doubt Joyce wants to spill that to him when she still hasn’t told Becky.
I think Joyce will open up to Joe about it, but not with Becky in the room, just off panel
Hopefully this leads to a realization that neither of them needs to hide from the other, what with them both pretending for everyone else at the moment…
Hmmmmmmm that seems vaguely familiar.
Oh, is this referring to another Walkyverse webcomic? I’ve only read Dumbing of Age.
I would say that it’s fairly reminiscent of the garbage roof, and its two founding members.
Also the Ruth x Billie dynamic.
Though in their case the partaking in mutual honesty was in good part about being alcoholics so that was not 100% healthy
To me it brought to mind back when Joyce went home and texted with Joe for support and comfort about things she didn’t feel she could say out loud.
Which he then honestly gave without spending effort on his usual playful horndog image.
I think it’ll actually be way easier for her to tell Joe than Becky.
She’ll have to text it to him
“I’m an… A-word”
“No no not that A-word”
“Nope the other one, come on you know what I mean”
“What? Ew no! gross! A-word Joe focus”
“Asshole”?
“Abnormal”??
…
“Aroused”???
“Antidisestablishmentarianism”????
Too commited. I think she’d more of a protoantidisestablishmentarianist.
I think Joyce needs to tell SOMEONE, and Joe’s the least likely to tell it to Becky. Or tell anything to Becky.
She has told Sarah already. I don’t remember if it’s clear whether she’s told anyone else. She could probably use more than just Sarah to talk to about it, though, if my own experience with big, identity-related secrets is anything to go by.
She hasn’t told anyone else yet.
I hope Joyce tells someone else soon, and I don’t think Joe would be a bad choice to tell since they seem to get along pretty well. And while Becky’s her childhood friend, I worry that Becky might not take Joyce’s atheism so well because they’ve known each other for so long and were raised in the same fundie Christian background.
OR Becky is going to be really peeved when she discovers she’s the last one to know.
Oh, Becky will DEFINITELY be peeved when she finds out (she doesn’t presently see Sarah as competition, but she’d still be hurt not to be Joyce’s first confidante). Moreso if she’s the last to know.
Keulen’s also got a point, though – the fact that Becky was comfortable with being selective about what beliefs she kept from her upbringing will mean she’ll have a very hard time understanding Joyce’s point of view. Unless, of course, she’s just been avoiding confronting the rest out of fear that it would hurt her relationship with Joyce, but I kind of doubt it.
I like to think that every other student has long since paired up and sat down, these two are loudly having this conversation in the middle of class, and Professor Brock is glaring at them wondering why he never developed the ability to make people die just by wanting it.
Because Lamarckism is bullshit.
Oh surely Professor Brock would never be so lamarckian as to expect to be able to transmit his death glare to his offspring.
Oh jeez, they’re still in Brock’s classroom, I didn’t pay too much attention to the background and thought those clear things were sneeze guards in the lunch line.
(This is my third Gravatar since the last reset, I haven’t changed my personal info at all)
Oh, the newest version of Gravatar has the ability to assign you one based on your current mental and emotional state, musical tastes, and the last meal you ate.
It’s mostly javascript based though, so bugs are common and if you’re not careful it may assign you a mental and emotional state based on your gravatar.
That explains a lot, actually.
Haa!
Damn you person who codes for Willis!
I thought it was that adding new gravatars in caused them all to shuffle around. We got a slew of new ones but then Professor Doc and I want to say another one got added in.
Glasses Joyce, since I think Booster was added with Semester Two models.
Professor Brock cannot mak people die. To die, they have to live first and life doesn’t exist.
True, what he wishes for is the ability to halt all biological metabolic activity with a single glare. Much different than a death glare.
Joyce is flirting by reminding Joe that yes, she wears glasses. Aren’t they cute and make her look smart?
*plays “Your Secret’s Safe With Me” on the hacked Muzak*
Joe having a sad that Joyce isn’t happy they’re that close?
“Well, I bet you didn’t know I have blue eyes!”
“They’re the same color as your glasses that I can see.”
“DANG IT!”
“How could I miss them? They’re the size of hubcaps!” — Walky’s response to the same prompt
“Also, your irises are the size of teacup saucers and can be seen through walls.”
“And they glow in the dark.”
I get the feeling that Joyce is going to open up to Joe about her newfound lack of faith. While I am glad she is going to talk to someone about it, I’m not sure Joe is the best choice. That being said I have been wrong before.
So what could go wrong when/if she talks to Joe about this?
Once again, no, not Joe.
She’s been talking to Joe about important stuff for a while now – we saw them texting about her parents before, and presumably she has continued to do that. Hence the “name one thing I don’t know about you”
Oh hey, that’s a good point I didn’t think about.
Well, one advantage of Joyce talking to Joe is that, unlike some other people in her life, he’s not invested in her faith or lack thereof. While the last strip seems to suggest he acknowledges the scientifically-determined age of the Earth and the process of evolution, IIRC he hasn’t identified as an atheist (like Dorothy) or as a fundamentalist. He *actually* might be a neutral person with whom she can discuss her ideas about science and faith.
(And BTW I *totally* ship them. Sorry.)
He’s Jewish, which is just about the first thing she ever learned about him: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/clipboard/
I’m sorry I missed that! I have a fair amount of Jewish heritage but I’m not Jewish. However, I’ve been trying to learn about my heritage (especially because my smartstrongwonderfulbeautiful niece’s father (my brother-in-law) is half-Jewish. One thing I’ve learned (and everyone please correct me if I’m wrong) is that asking questions is a cornerstone of Judiasm. So IMHO that aspect of Joe’s identity could be very enlightening for Joyce.
Asking questions and arguing, as I understand it.
At least, that’s what I always got from the story of the time these two or three rabbis were heatedly arguing about something in the Torah, and God showed up and said, “Look, guys, it’s simple, what I meant was…” and they all yelled at him to stay out of it and mind his own business.
LOL
But questioning and arguing…yup, sounds a LOT like me and also my niece.
That story is so good! Another layer: when they tell God to stay out of it, they do so by quoting God’s own words, out of context, AT GOD. In response, God laughs, “my children have surpassed me”.
(It’s written by these same rabbis, who are totally self-aware of all the levels at play here.)
So yeah. Arguing (productively) is fine. If you’re really having a good one, then we’ll write down the whole dang argument and happily study (and argue about) both sides for the next few thousand years.
Another Jewish saying: “The good student knows the answers. The *great* student asks the questions.” Questions are definitely strongly encouraged always.
I like the one where four rabbis are arguing, God backs up one of them and the rest goes “So what? It’s still 3 against 2”
“So if you’re not a fundie Christian any more, does that mean you’re on board for a banging?”
*death glare*
“Not with ME! You’re still a zero-minus on my do list!”
*death glare intensifies*
Talk? No.
Text? Probably.
Here’s how I see it: Joe creates the Do List which he uses to numerically rate women, and Joyce gets a zero. This was treated as boyish fun for a while before we all realized it was super creepy but is important because it informs us how Joe views his relationships with women.
Joyce starts texting him freaking out because Joe is the only friend(?) she has who’s gone through a divorce, much less conflict with their parents, and then he starts responding with no problem offering helpful advice based on past experience. Joe does not have to worry about ruining his Big Chance with Joyce because Joyce is a zero and he will never, ever sleep with her, meaning he immediately sidestepped the system he has in place that caused him to treat his interactions with women as purely transactional affairs “for a mutual good time.”
Joe has established a rapport with Joyce where she is neither a potential hook-up or Danny, who really should stop sticking his neck out for feelings because feelings are dumb and get you hurt. He just accepts the things he tells her, and I think the subtext to this strip (because Joe does not *literally* know every factoid of Joyce’s life) is that Joe intimately understands what kind of person Joyce is (that being someone who is constantly trying to improve from who she was yesterday and one day she’ll be perfect and how could you not see it Jo- I mean Jacob?) and will, consequently, accept her newfound lack of faith as something Joyce is going through, rather than the presumptions and judgements, good or bad, of the rest of the cast.
“Churchy blonde” wasn’t always a zero-minus on the Do List. That was after the date at Galasso’s under Mike’s supervision.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2010/comic/book-1/03-men-are-from-beck-women-are-from-clark/corrupt/
(Wow, I forgot how much Joe’s toned it down since book 1…)
Some other student in the class: “The newspaper has an opening for a comic strip? Maybe I’ll apply, too!”
And that student… was named David Willis.
He can be Joyce’s nemesis in this universe, as he once was Ethan’s
He’s Ethan’s in this universe too. For the same reasons.
MUST HIS EGO DESTROY EVERYTHING HE TOUCHES?
Isn’t this ‘verse’s in-universe David Willis the “reclusive, yet wealthy, creator of Dexter and Monkey Master“?
I already have Carla as my backup, let’s try another changeup
Roz is fine for today.
oooh sneaky
Sorry, Joyce, this is what you get for confiding in Joe about stuff you don’t want to tell Becky.
Much as I like the drama (and I really do like the drama) I also very much like the way their relationship is developing, theres been no meet-cute, nothing seems forced, just two people finding out they have much in common than they thought and are compatible on different levels
Its nice
Agreed!
Heavily seconded
I’d call it more of a ‘meet-annoy’.
And their earliest encounters are a meet-yikes.
On the one hand, I want to know what Dina and Becky are up to just offscreen. On the other hand, I could absolutely read an entire month’s worth of this conversation
I’d be happy with knowing what the expressions are meant to portray in panel 4
I wonder if Joe is a little bemused with how much Joyce is struggling for something to point to him not knowing.
I think Joyce is grumpily trying to come up with something Joe doesn’t know other than The Big Secret —her newfound atheism. Joe, I’m less sure of. He looks…concerned? Which would make sense, since he doesn’t know why Joyce is insisting she has secrets, and it’s a slightly odd thing for her to do. (Not odd for a person in general, just for Joyce.) DailyBrad’s guess of bemusement seems good, too.
Does Joe know Joyce’s parents are divorced? That would be new.
I have a vague feeling Joe was Joyce’s “Person Who Knows What That’s Like” for that one, but can’t find a strip where that was established, so I’m not sure.
Yeah, he was at the very least well aware they had problems and gave her advice for dealing with it, since he is her only friend who has divorced parents. So, whether or not she’s kept him up to date, that at least wouldn’t be a surprise.
Him and Sarah, most likely, since hers are also divorced.
Also I suspect it being so tied into the kidnapping means that word spread fast among their circle. ‘What do you mean your mom sided with the religious dead guy who kidnapped you?’
‘He also pointed a gun at me when he tried to kidnap Becky the first time.’
‘Holy fuck. What are you doing for Thanksgiving?’
‘So about that…’
Same, honestly. This one of the most interesting pairings in the setting for me in terms of interactions, be they good or bad.
I guess she could try to stump him on underwear color, but that’s basically pulling the Bilbo, “what have I got in my pocket” card.
Not fair! Three guesses you must give us!
I’m visualizing full-coverage cotton granny-panties – in white, of course. And a white cotton full-cup bra to match.
Well from what she wore on her date with Joe I’ll guess she has some definite views on what constitutes ladies undergarments (in certain situations) so i’ll guess something slightly more feminine and attractive
Not that I’ve thought much about it of course
That may be, but she’s in class and not exactly dressing to impress. I stand by my original assessment.
“I wear glasses now!” as a Thing Joe Doesn’t Know becomes even funnier when you remember that he complimented her on them five seconds ago.
Gah I had forgotten XD
(When did– oh, yesterday’s strip. OK)
(I read these with my morning coffee, so.. yeah)
I loved that. This is probably my favourite punchline of the storyline so far
I bet Joe doesn’t know Joyce is the author of the renowned fanfic Space Pilot Julia Gray
Those two “dangit”s are just so dang cute.
Agreed.
Oof. Two D bombs in a row.
Why am I cursed to have my mind immediately start thinking of ships when two fictional characters with an iota chemistry start interacting?
I tend to avoid shipping as a concept unless it’s a casual “oh I think they’d be neat together” kind of thing, or if it’s a flat out canon romance that I get invested in.
And brother, this is as canon as it gets.
*loads the canon, readies the fuse*
THANK you.
Does he know that Joyce has a sister? Because Joyce doesn’t even know that yet and it would be really impressive if Joe knew about Jocelyn despite never meeting her!
Joe: What, Joc? Yeah I text her all the time. We talk about how worried we are about you all the time.
Joyce: Dangit!
Joe: Also your baby pictures are barf-inducingly cute.
Joyce: Double dangit!
I first read that as ‘Joque’ not ‘Joce’ and it really threw me. Once my mind caught up though, … super cute take.
*Jacques. Ugh my french is decaying faster than Hydrogen-7
I wonder if Joyce is currently thinking about Christine Lavin’s “I want to be a mysterious woman.” You know, playing in her mind’s inner-earworm.
I’d like for Joyce to meet with Jordan now that she’s no longer forbidden to do all the terrible things she used to.
I’d like the unforgivable evil he did to be….becoming Catholic.
Maybe even being the assistant priest at Jacob’s Church!
Jacob’s church is Episcopalian, but the Browns probably wouldn’t approve of that, either. Too similar.
I’m still curious what’s up with Jordan. Did he convert to another religion, or a different denomination of Christianity? Is he gay? Did he get a job in some profession Mr. and Mrs. Brown didn’t like at the time?
Well if we knew what had happened, it could be mentioned. As far as I know it is a family mystery. And I am lead to believe that it happened so long ago, Joyce didn’t understand what happened. Too young.
Gosh so cute :3
DANGIT!
a mystery, that girl
Joyce is definitely reinforcing my view that glasses make cute girls even cuter.
Isn’t that just an objective truth, though?
Not an objective truth, but a measurable/calculable fundamental constant. G, e, Pi, people get cuter with glasses, c.
[postulate class=’armchair’] Perhaps this is due to the mammalian parenting instinct and the effect of our offspring having relatively larger eyes and our evoked response to nuture. Glasses give the perception of big eyes. [/postulate] I wonder if birds find their scrawny-necked, big-headed, screaming chicks cute as well? “Aw… look at them, they just make me want to vomit partially ground up insects, worms and gravel into their mouths.”
It took me a bit to adjust but now I absolutely think Joyce looks adorable in glasses.
I think it depends a lot on their facial shape AND the glasses they choose. There’s actually a whole art to choosing glasses so they complement your face (similar to how some hairstyles will just look absolutely goofy on certain faces, no matter how hard they try).
Now playing : ARMAND VAN HELDEN – You don’t know me
Well played, Joe. You still don’t know, but that was a good gotcha anyway.
Gee I wonder if there’s any significance to Joyce, whose primary struggle at the moment is a perception that outside forces are constantly struggling to change her life when she wishes she had the same stability she had before, and other people looking at those changes and reacting to them in equally annoying and frustrating ways, trying to make pointed commentary that Joe doesn’t *actually* know anything about her or her beliefs to which Joe responds that he *already* knows everything important about her, except this one tiny thing that he immediately learns about and adds to the list.
I’m not saying this is completely on accident or anything, I vaguely remember reading about a Roomies reboot and the possibility of Joe and Joyce getting together there, but their relationship in DoA feels like the kind of thing that comes along when you put two characters in a room together and they hit it off. No it doesn’t actually work that way, because they’re not real and everything they do and say and feel is pre-planned, but outside the writer’s head just as someone reading it, it feels like something that’s happening as a result of the two gradually putting the pieces together, rather than, say, Ruth and Billie being telegraphed since day one.
There was also an alternate universe in Joyce and Walky! where they hooked up, but I think their interactions in the old universe proved unexpectedly fun for Willis to write and they then went ‘huh’ and kept throwing the two of them together – in other words, not dissimilar to putting the two of them in a room and them hitting it off, albeit also with a heavy dose of antagonism first.
(And while writers are the ones in charge of saying how these characters react, there is definitely a tendency of some characters – particularly really good ones – to sort of… intervene with the writer’s previous plans. This ranges from simple ‘no, wait, this is way more likely as something she’d do AND it’s way more dramatic’ or ‘this dialogue really flows, and it’s maybe going a different direction than my first plans but it’s a good direction’ to ‘you were writing along just fine and needed a brief minor role and then suddenly bam, THIS ASSHOLE shows up and sits themself down in your WIP and demands attention.’ That one happens way more often than you’d expect.)
When they first met in DoA I didn’t think of them as a remotely viable ship at all (and I was still so used to Joyce and walky) but the more they interact, the more Joe is my absolute favorite Joyce ship. They click in such unlikely ways and both seem to come from such polar opposite extremes that they’re trying to climb out of that they seem to compliment each other well.
Yeah, between the donuts scene years ago and the fact that “so now I know everything about you” actually worked…. yeah, guys, just date already.
Joyce and Joe simultaneously: THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN – AGAIN
Watching Miss “Joe’s pretty on the ball about these things” and Mr. “She first made many mistakes, but she’s much smarter and now does much better, and someday she’ll be really great*” do this is like watching two asteroids, whose paths are already determined, insist that they’re not going to collide.
(*Paraphrased)
I’ve so missed Joe/Joyce interactions
Ok. This is cute. It’s a very good way to start being Lab partners.
….Alright when are we gonna get a slipshine with them?
Silly Joyce, you are not supposed to blab out your secrets; you have to write them down in a binder, like Becky and Dorothy do.
Awww, they’re getting to know each other.
Joe, now you tell Joyce a thing!
Waiting for her to admit her atheist beliefs because she’s often found it easier to be honest with Joe because of complicated reasons and I love their interactions so much.
I love their interactions. Both of them have a lot of growing to do as people (Joe more so than Joyce), but they play off of one another so well.
Wait shit I just realized I should commission Yotomoe for another Joyce as Jotaro pic but this time with Joe as Star Platinum.
This is why you should have gotten contacts, Joyce.
I just noticed Robin DeSanto has been voted the greatest teacher with 69% of the vote. I feel like she would want it this way.
I’m amused by the fact that Joyce isn’t really refuting Joe’s claim that he knows everything about her all that hard, even though I’m pretty sure that’s not actually true.