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As vast majority is aways getting apologetical to Joe, I’ll be for Sarah.
She’s not obligated to sorry him. At least not now.
Her point of view is so disperse in history, we didn’t see her watching Joe improving or something. She got all she can, and we don’t know deep in her history.
PS: don’t be worried about Sarah’s threat.
Reading Willis’s DoA Tumblr, you can see that Joyce and Joe will be fine and together in future (you can see it here and here (yes, there was another preview of
Joe and Joyce, but perhaps I’ve seen something nobody should…)
So, if Sarah really has tried to break them up, it will flunk hard.
1: I don’t trust Mr. @damnyouwillis a goddamn inch :D.
2: That said, I do read Sarah’s comment as more grumbly snideness than an actual mission statement. Wouldn’t shock me if she doesn’t do anything but small, petty things at opportune moments to jab at Joe.
Yeah Sarah’s style isn’t to actively undermine. She works with the truth when it’s been revealed to her but not yet to others. Also, she does it when she sees that it actually helps, not just out of spite. This is still on Joe to fuck up or make work.
Me? I see Joe fucking up in a way he thinks is unforgivable, and Sarah having come around on him a bit and helping when she sees what he’s been doing emotionally with Joyce.
All that said. I was *probably* wrong about his previous reaction, but it’s cool that he just stayed around to see what’s up and offer apologies.
I’m not really sure that link shows things are positive for Joyce/Joe (or for Dina/Becky for that matter) … but really, that’s February … so in DoA time it’s what, next week?
PS 2: Before anything: Joe’s not a monster, or something like this.
He’s just a handsome and lucky boy, that deals with sex with much freedom and perversion. And he’s trying to improve himself to fix errors he has made before.
not to blame the parents but I really do want to see joe do a therapy re: his dad’s philandering and joe’s keeping it casual so no one gets hurt avoidance deal
I mean, I don’t think Sarah has done anything wrong here at all. She’s been a bit overly protective of Joyce, but now that Joyce has put her foot down, she’s walking away.
That’s good. It’s not the end of the story. It’s a good development in their friendship. The threat into the air is ominous, but you’re allowed to be privately ominous. It’ll be interesting to see if she actually has any concrete ideas on how to break them up, given that her last idea was “throw Joyce at him”.
Support for this comment. She’s setting her own boundaries while respecting Joyce and getting out of her hair. For now. If she does actually scheme something it’ll be another story, but for now she’s doing alright.
If she believes Joe will inevitably fuck up and break Joyce’s heart, and is preparing herself to catch her with an “I told you so” when it happens, that’s one thing.
If she’s planning to actively sabotage their relationship, that’s crossing a line.
Her motivation isn’t wrong, but last time she schemed to break up a couple, it worked and there was a lot of collateral damage, including Joyce. Impossible to see how she could break up Joe and Joyce without hurting her again. I hope she realizes before its too late.
In Raidah’s defense (a thing I say more often then I would like to) she wasn’t as directly aware of the severity of the breakdown and she’s implied to know things Sarah doesn’t about Dana’s current status and home life
But she also didn’t care enough to verify what Sarah was saying. She just unilaterally decided Sarah was overreacting and dismissed it. Because it didn’t fit in with Raidah’s plans so was therefor unimportant. Until Sarah messed that up, for Raidah. Regardless of what Dana’s dealing with outside of school, make no mistake Raidah’s primary issue is that Dana leaving caused Raidah to lose some future marker in Raidahs fantasy power brokerage.
Personally, I no longer trust what Raidah did or didn’t know. After seeing how much she schemes and manipulates, I can’t. For example, if Jennifer started to spiral again, would you believe Raidah if she said she never noticed? Frankly, at this point I’d wonder if she was working an angle, letting things get worse so she can act the savior and get close to some rich parents.
In fact, that’s my new headcannon. Raidah hates Sarah so much because Sarah ruined her own scheme to let Dana really hit rock bottom and then call the Dad. And Sarah didn’t even try to use it for her own gain, the gall…
But you have to consider those implications about Dana’s current status in light of Raidah not being able to see through the false front Dana was putting up in public. She was wrong then, do we trust her take on how Dana was doing at home?
“last I checked” is Raidah making the implication, not Willis / the situation. It’s the kind of thing someone might say if they have not actually checked anytime recently, but wanted to give the impression they had.
Fair. Since it was at the start of last semester, it was probably over the summer at best anyway.
And we already know Raidah wasn’t a good judge of how Dana was doing, even when they were in contact regularly at school.
Yeah that still is disappointing. Like Joe definitely felt like he had better survival instincts than to loudly shout he would bone someone else right in front of Sarah. But we needed a way to Kickstart this plot and give Sarah some justification for her behavior so here we are…
I believe it WAS a joke because this is a comic. I think It was an exaggeration of what, in reality would likely be more like “What? REALLY?” In an excited tone, which implies the same thing in less words and is less funny. It likely wasnt meant to convey that Joe truly is so irredeemable, as he has been shown to be seeking redemption even before dating Joyce.
Joyce, the trick is that you need to get Sarah a little angry. You don’t want her to be nice to Joe (because that ain’t gonna happen), or to give him a chance (because she’ll be watching it all like a hawk which will cause its own issues), but rather just getting her to go “fuck it, fine, you be an idiot yourself, I’m out”.
Sarah’s not big on redemption or second chances. She’s huge on apathy, she fucking loves apathy, appeal to her apathy!
Following on what Ursula said, Joe is also in Sarah’s room. Forcing Sarah to say “fuck it” by leaving where she sleeps and studies is not conducive to apathy.
I do like Sarah, but she really does need to recognize Joyce’s competence and agency in a way she only partially does so far, along with the existing Raidah Problem, not that Joe has been shown to have any real issue with her harshness. (If anything, he likes that about her.)
I think “hominid” refers to the taxonomic family that includes gorillas, orangutans, and Gigantopithecus as well as the genus Homo. But I have to confess that I find the modern technical vocabulary of Homo, Hominini, Homininae, Hominidae, Hominoidea and so on less than fully clear and illuminating.
I’m pretty sure this character growth for Sarah. If I recall correctly, when we first met her, she would never would have taken the time out of her life to create an intricate plot to destroy a relationship she disapproved of. She has learned to care about others – not necessary in the healthiest manner, but progress is progress.
Weird take, but does NO ONE remember that Joyce was the FIRST of Joyce and Sarah to try and break up Raidah and Jacob? Because she wanted Sarah to get together with Jacob?? Blame it on Sarah all you want, but Joyce is the one who began the conquest
I’m guessing at some point Sarah will assemble the convention of the dorm moms of Joyce; Becky, Dorothy and Dina (not a dorm mom but is there). I suppose Jenifer would also be there and maybe Sal. Carla is there, only beacuse she is upset that this metting is not about her.
Becky Sal Dotty and ill probably tell Sarah she is overreacting and maybe let Joyce make her own decisions. Thus leading to an alliance of convenient awfulness between Jennifer and Sarah also Carla who does t want to be excluded but really just wants to toss a pie at everyone. at will lead potentially an awful outcome for all parties involved except Carla who will have hit someone with a pie.
Jennifer has actually told the others to let Joyce do her own thing. This feels like an assumption that the “awful” people would all agree. Sarah and Jennifer are hot messes in virtually opposite ways.
Honestly, the Jennifer/Sarah/Carla thematic resonance is underexplored. They all have somewhat distant parents and seem to each have reacted in some interestingly specific ways.
Are Carla’s parents distant? Other than being very busy being not-quite-as-evil/insane-as-Elon? Unless we assume that her narcissism is due to overcompensating for a lack of attention from them, which really doesn’t seem to track. (Or I’ve forgotten something…)
I used to like her a lot (what’s not to like about taking a baseball bat to a rapist) but since the timeskip she’s really embracing being an unpleasant and unlikeable person
Was it before or after the timeskip that she used Joyce as a tool to break up Jacob’s relationship, with malice towards Raidah and callous indifference to the effects on Joyce and Jacob?
Lucy! Sarah you gotta get Joe together with Lucy. It’s the perfect solution to all the problems and surely can be done without any catastrophe whatsoever.
Rooting for Joe just cause the entire cast is so against him lol like I totally understand why but. AS A READER I love him and he and joyce are cute so there
I think your relationship will be a disaster so I will cause a disaster so that your relationship won’t be a disaster. What do you not understand?
Ps that “You are forgiven” gave me such a nice warmth on this Monday morning
Do you know who didn’t appeared on Joe’s donut table, after the “Do list” thing? Yeah, exactly: Sarah.
But this makes no sense, because in this storyline, no donut has left.
Genuinely, I wonder if it might be best for the two of them to just…? And get it over with. Joyce is an atheist now, and Joe does love her in his own way. If he knocks her up, I don’t know where Illinois stands post-Dobbs, but she’s got a car – or she could go ahead and keep the brat.
I mean, just because she’s atheist doesn’t mean she’d be comfortable getting an abortion. Not only is it not a switch you flip, but also people are complicated and have complicated feelings about shit happening to their bodies.
Also, how would that resolve literally anything with Sarah?
Illinois is firmly pro- women’s health, gender care supporting. I’m a little bit astonished but immensely pleased considering our last governor was basically a Republican Vulture Capitalist.
And why are we jumping immediately to “knocks her up”. Plenty of college kids have plenty of sex without anyone getting pregnant.
Joyce is already taking birth control and we can assume Joe is practiced in using condoms.
Yeah, I’d honestly much rather her go the aggressive, “Fine, but if you cheat on her I will feed your manhood to a woodchipper while it’s attached to you” route. This route is…
I feel like this is a step too far for Sarah. If she executes her plan to break up Joyce and Joe and it works, it’s easy for Sarah to step in and say “See? I told you you couldn’t trust him. This is why you listen to your big sister Sarah.” The problem is, if that plan were to backfire, or if Joyce were to ever find out that Sarah tried this plan, it would shatter Joyce’s trust in Sarah forever, possibly even leading to Joyce requesting a dorm transfer like Jennifer did to get away from Ruth. I can understand why Sarah feels like she needs to be both highly protective of Joyce and extremely mistrustful of Joe, since the first time Sarah let Joyce do something on her own, she was roofied and almost r*ped, and Joe is, as she put it, “a serial philanderer” who not only created a “Do-List” of all the hot girls in college and their dorm addresses, but was also involved in two sexual scandals involving both a T.A. (Penny) and a fellow student (Roz). This is not suggesting that Joe would do something like that to Joyce, but Sarah’s complete lack of trust in Joe and the overwhelming need to protect her “little sister” is a recipe for disaster.
TLDR: Sarah needs to step back and let Joyce make her own choices, as well as be more willing to accept that people like Joe can change.
Jennifer didn’t request a dorm transfer to get away from Ruth. She was moved to a different dorm after it was discovered that she and Ruth were in a relationship (and that Ruth was suicidal).
Everyone is hating on Sarah but let’s be real here. As far as she is concerned Joyce is hooking up with some misogynistic creeper who sees her only for her sexual attributes. I’ve heard enough stories about women hooking up with men like that and then being alienated from their friends and families and being taken advantage of for years. Sarah is not wrong, she just doesn’t know how far Joe has come.
“He changed/I can fix him” is really less up-to-date information and more a very unreliable opinion when it comes to romance. You don’t trust the optimism of three people, an addict, a person having a manic episode and a person in love.
Sarah will listen better after the initial feelings have cooled a bit. It really hasn’t been that long (in-universe) since Joe said and did some awful things. It’s been less than a year since Joe’s dad hit on Sarah. For us real people it’s been 10 years. I recommend everyone got to the Sarah+Joe tags and got to the very beginning for a refresher.
On the one hand, I don’t think she’s in the wrong for distrusting Joe; on the other hand, I don’t think your scenario of women being isolated from their friends applies here. Joe isn’t forcing Joyce to choose between him and Sarah or gaslighting her into thinking all her friends hate him, Sarah just hates him, and Joyce is putting her foot down and refusing to let Sarah control her social life.
Joe is, in fact, pretty much the only person in the cast who doesn’t think it’s his Destined Right to boss Joyce around and/or control her ‘for her own good.’
Oh what I meant was that this might be what is on Sarah’s mind regarding Joe. Her and Becky were on the receiving end of a lot of this kind of crap and Sarah already assumes the worst of Joe anyway.
I reviewed the Joe+Sarah tag a few days ago to see if he’d ever said anything redeeming…and honestly it just made me hate him more. I’m still hugely on the side of Joe shouldn’t date or have sex with anyone for at least the rest of the school year…
That being said in the world of problematic characters: I miss Jacob
I hope Sarah will discuss this situation with Dorothy. Also because if Dorothy is really starting to understand that she has a crush on Joyce, Sarah would have any problem asking her directly about it.
Joyce also does bulldoze over other people’s feelings, and this is not a first time.
‘Amber doesn’t want to be family.’ ‘Well too bad, we don’t always get what we want.’
‘Is Sarah cool with us?’ ‘No, I’m not.’ ‘It’s fine, Sarah actually totally trusts me.’
Yes, Joyce is right that Joe is changing, and at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter if Sarah likes Joe or not. But it’s not the first time that when she wants something, she doesn’t care if other people are uncomfortable with it.
In this particular case, I’d call Sarah’s discomfort a burden. It’s not her relationship to have opinions about, especially if she’s not gonna so much as ask if Joyce maybe knows something she doesn’t.
Romance sometimes ends in heartbreak. It’s not ok to prevent one’s roommate from ever experiencing romance so that they are never heartbroken. If Sarah could have prevented Dana’s mother from dying, that would have been a good thing.
Of course not.
It is however perfectly okay to try to keep your roommate and friend from being exploited by a creep who’s just trying to manipulate his way into her pants.
We know Joe’s not doing that, but Sarah has no reason to change her opinion of him. Even less so after yesterday.
In this specific instance, why should Joyce prioritize other people’s feelings over her own? Why would it be the right thing to break up with a boy she likes a lot and who likes her a lot just because Sarah is unhappy about said boy?
It’s not bulldozing other people’s feelings to just… not do what they want all the time.
She absolutely shouldn’t and I don’t think that was the intent.
She could however talk to her big sister about how this has been building for a long time and why she thinks Joe’s changing. It’s kind of interesting how compartmentalized Joyce’s been about this. She’s been reaching out to Joe for support and serious conversations since as far back as her visit home last semester and neither Sarah nor Dorothy have even the slightest clue.
She could, andi agree that the compartmentalization is interesting. I personally think it stems from Joyce understanding, subconsciously, that if she told Sarah or Dorothy about ‘hey, Joe is a really good friend, you know?’ that it would result in Joe being taken away from her.
That she’s being more open now is a sign both of her confidence in Joe and her confidence in herself: Sarah and Dorothy are not in fact the bosses of her. Not that they’ve exactly gotten the memo yet.
Is this one of those life situations where Sarah, and maybe Joyce, will never know Joe was not serious about that exchange?
I have been described as over-serious and exceedingly straightforward when all the stuff goes a bit weird. This is one of the examples of why I hated being misunderstood as an adolescent, but managed to stumble into it (not like Joe here) anyway.
I mean he wasn’t actually going to fuck Sarah, that much is clear. I think he’d rather get mike’d than cheat on Joyce. Imo it was a full on muscle memory reflex. Body acted on instinct and it took a second for his brain to catch up
The emotional setup of this arc seems pretty clear that she has to get over her dislike of Joe to trust Joyce knows what she’s getting into and tbh it’s not a poor idea, it wasn’t that long ago that she got on birth control and had to get glasses and was fed up with people smothering her. Joyce is pretty grown, she doesn’t need a police force anymore.
I’ve read that book! (At least 20 times… probably more) Though usually it’s Dorothy (bluestocking) or Roz (feminist/activist), not Sarah (grouchy archetype) as the heroine. Sarahs are usually paired with sunshine archetypes (… Joyce…), not reformed rakes. It would be fun to play with mixing up romance tropes. I’m starting to really agree with the polycule advocates. Some fantastic possibilities there. (But also I understand if people want to be monogamous or heterosexual– nobody has to change their orientation for my mental ships.)
She’s a terrible social climber whose more concerned with her appearances and how she’s perceived than anything of merit. But it also feels like she’s largely correct about Sarah NOW. (She wasn’t in earlier comics, where we see Sarah was more than just. This.)
In all seriousness, I do not know a good way to handle the situation Sarah’s in. I was in a vaguely similar one when I was a kid, and I handled it poorly in a different way. She’s justified in despising Joe and not trusting him.
The correct-sounding ways also sound like unrealistic, contrived skits from a conflict resolution assembly in middle school.
It’s interesting how things have changed and matured over the arcs.
Even if it were remotely possible to have happened then (it wasn’t.), it’d have done early Joyce no favors to do anything sexual with early Joe. If his dry spell and times he stops to think weren’t notable, as well as his supportive behavior outside what his dick can potentially get involved with, all this would look a *lot* worse.
A lotta hornyguys don’t mean to take advantage, or even arrogantly think of it as a kind of helping, to start a sexual relationship with someone who’s vulnerable from shifting beliefs under tough circumstances…someone who’s sexually repressed, but curious and experimenting. This is, yeah, an easy situation to fuck up BAD.
But for someone who’s been repressed as hell, sometimes a very sexual partner who’s done a lot *can* be a big help. Things working out IRL in similar relationships has depended on so many exact little established details about him. A lot depends on Joyce, too, and she’s communicating her boundaries and limits well. For all the immature moments, she’s showing her own surprise mature ones in all this too, growing as a person.
I’m hoping that, even if this doesn’t work out, and whatever the setbacks are, it won’t be for any of the reasons anyone was expecting.
Most of the ways for Joe to fuck up here are accidental, or engineered against his wishes. It’s just a form of human for him to be a slut who was an idiot when fresh out of high school, and had to drink a couple of gallons of respect women juice (that may take a lifetime to absorb).
so i'm thinking, okay, i took some extra photos of this set of doors this year so i could draw some other angles, it's an important set of doors, so let's pull up my new reference photos...
....and do you see a problem, do you see an issue
Well, Lizard is here, and I've been telling myself for... years that I'd take down my Endgame shelf and put up Spider-Man:No Way Home once the final villain was out.
So.
That's a thing I gotta do.
okay okay -- spider-man reboot idea
the lizard is still dr connors, but he's dr PHIL connors, and he wakes up every day and it's groundhog day and he's a lizard
is this anything
Sean Thomason @seanthomason.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Rolling Stone @rollingstone.com ⋅ 1d
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Barb O. Saur 
⚧️
a
sexy, sexysweet, wholesome catastropheYES!
Now Joe and Joyce, the couple figuring have some space to themselves, figuring out what to burn in a cathartic experience they will never forget. 🥲
*plays “Unforgetting” by Devin Church on hacked muzak*
The best kinda catstrophe
Sarah’s version of forgiveness never made it out of beta
And there were so many stretch goals met on the kickstarter!
As vast majority is aways getting apologetical to Joe, I’ll be for Sarah.
She’s not obligated to sorry him. At least not now.
Her point of view is so disperse in history, we didn’t see her watching Joe improving or something. She got all she can, and we don’t know deep in her history.
PS: don’t be worried about Sarah’s threat.
Reading Willis’s DoA Tumblr, you can see that Joyce and Joe will be fine and together in future (you can see it here and here (yes, there was another preview of
Joe and Joyce, but perhaps I’ve seen something nobody should…)
So, if Sarah really has tried to break them up, it will flunk hard.
1: I don’t trust Mr. @damnyouwillis a goddamn inch :D.
2: That said, I do read Sarah’s comment as more grumbly snideness than an actual mission statement. Wouldn’t shock me if she doesn’t do anything but small, petty things at opportune moments to jab at Joe.
Yeah Sarah’s style isn’t to actively undermine. She works with the truth when it’s been revealed to her but not yet to others. Also, she does it when she sees that it actually helps, not just out of spite. This is still on Joe to fuck up or make work.
Me? I see Joe fucking up in a way he thinks is unforgivable, and Sarah having come around on him a bit and helping when she sees what he’s been doing emotionally with Joyce.
All that said. I was *probably* wrong about his previous reaction, but it’s cool that he just stayed around to see what’s up and offer apologies.
I’m not really sure that link shows things are positive for Joyce/Joe (or for Dina/Becky for that matter) … but really, that’s February … so in DoA time it’s what, next week?
There’s another Preview, and they are huging. But it got deleted.
PS 2: Before anything: Joe’s not a monster, or something like this.
He’s just a handsome and lucky boy, that deals with sex with much freedom and perversion. And he’s trying to improve himself to fix errors he has made before.
Perversion?
Tell us more.
You’re mocking me, aren’t you?
not to blame the parents but I really do want to see joe do a therapy re: his dad’s philandering and joe’s keeping it casual so no one gets hurt avoidance deal
One of these days, I’m going to remember to nominate the head of IU’s mental health services for a Patreon bonus strip.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some turnover following the whole kidnapping thing
I mean, I don’t think Sarah has done anything wrong here at all. She’s been a bit overly protective of Joyce, but now that Joyce has put her foot down, she’s walking away.
That’s good. It’s not the end of the story. It’s a good development in their friendship. The threat into the air is ominous, but you’re allowed to be privately ominous. It’ll be interesting to see if she actually has any concrete ideas on how to break them up, given that her last idea was “throw Joyce at him”.
Support for this comment. She’s setting her own boundaries while respecting Joyce and getting out of her hair. For now. If she does actually scheme something it’ll be another story, but for now she’s doing alright.
If she believes Joe will inevitably fuck up and break Joyce’s heart, and is preparing herself to catch her with an “I told you so” when it happens, that’s one thing.
If she’s planning to actively sabotage their relationship, that’s crossing a line.
Her motivation isn’t wrong, but last time she schemed to break up a couple, it worked and there was a lot of collateral damage, including Joyce. Impossible to see how she could break up Joe and Joyce without hurting her again. I hope she realizes before its too late.
And this is why to outside observers Raidah was right
Ironically, Raidah would probably be in support of putting Joyce through a messy breakup.
well at least sarah is willing to leave and give them privacy rather than hovering above them
Pity Raidah herself was not an outside observer, but fully present while she ignored a friend slowly spiraling into despair and addiction.
In Raidah’s defense (a thing I say more often then I would like to) she wasn’t as directly aware of the severity of the breakdown and she’s implied to know things Sarah doesn’t about Dana’s current status and home life
But she also didn’t care enough to verify what Sarah was saying. She just unilaterally decided Sarah was overreacting and dismissed it. Because it didn’t fit in with Raidah’s plans so was therefor unimportant. Until Sarah messed that up, for Raidah. Regardless of what Dana’s dealing with outside of school, make no mistake Raidah’s primary issue is that Dana leaving caused Raidah to lose some future marker in Raidahs fantasy power brokerage.
Personally, I no longer trust what Raidah did or didn’t know. After seeing how much she schemes and manipulates, I can’t. For example, if Jennifer started to spiral again, would you believe Raidah if she said she never noticed? Frankly, at this point I’d wonder if she was working an angle, letting things get worse so she can act the savior and get close to some rich parents.
In fact, that’s my new headcannon. Raidah hates Sarah so much because Sarah ruined her own scheme to let Dana really hit rock bottom and then call the Dad. And Sarah didn’t even try to use it for her own gain, the gall…
But you have to consider those implications about Dana’s current status in light of Raidah not being able to see through the false front Dana was putting up in public. She was wrong then, do we trust her take on how Dana was doing at home?
“implied to know” Where?
Way back at the start
“last I checked” is Raidah making the implication, not Willis / the situation. It’s the kind of thing someone might say if they have not actually checked anytime recently, but wanted to give the impression they had.
Fair. Since it was at the start of last semester, it was probably over the summer at best anyway.
And we already know Raidah wasn’t a good judge of how Dana was doing, even when they were in contact regularly at school.
I expect neither of them are currently in touch with Dana.
Either Joe and Joyce are already headed for catastrophe, or Sarah’s going to prove herself right by causing one.
she needs to find a natural ally. Like, I dunno, Dorothy.
Dorothy already let it go after seeing how they work together.
… I question your use of the either/or framework.
It’s sooo last millennium.
“I’ll get you, my pretty. And your little horndog too!”
Sorry, watching that movie right now, so it just popped into my head.
So it wasn’t a joke. Ugh.
Yeah that still is disappointing. Like Joe definitely felt like he had better survival instincts than to loudly shout he would bone someone else right in front of Sarah. But we needed a way to Kickstart this plot and give Sarah some justification for her behavior so here we are…
I really hated this. If if will be like this, it will be hard to like him or ship him with Joyce…
I believe it WAS a joke because this is a comic. I think It was an exaggeration of what, in reality would likely be more like “What? REALLY?” In an excited tone, which implies the same thing in less words and is less funny. It likely wasnt meant to convey that Joe truly is so irredeemable, as he has been shown to be seeking redemption even before dating Joyce.
It might be meant to show that he’s still got a lot of work to do. That his first impulse is still to jump at the chance.
It’s not like we’ve ever seen him turn down sex.
A missed chance by DYU.
Joyce, the trick is that you need to get Sarah a little angry. You don’t want her to be nice to Joe (because that ain’t gonna happen), or to give him a chance (because she’ll be watching it all like a hawk which will cause its own issues), but rather just getting her to go “fuck it, fine, you be an idiot yourself, I’m out”.
Sarah’s not big on redemption or second chances. She’s huge on apathy, she fucking loves apathy, appeal to her apathy!
Problem is Sarah cares for Joyce alot so while normally apathy would take over in most scenarios this path probably won’t be fruitful.
Following on what Ursula said, Joe is also in Sarah’s room. Forcing Sarah to say “fuck it” by leaving where she sleeps and studies is not conducive to apathy.
I’m sorry
I don’t care.
Sorry you’re a b!tch
WHAT THE H3LL DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME
OH, now you care
I’m just happy to know thanks to future glimpses that my JoJo ship still sails for at least the next six months
That’s, like, three days, though.
I foresee a scene where Joyce is weeping, “But I asked for it, I TOLD him to do it!”
Plotting and Scheming her schemes and plots.
They will figure out what to burn, and experience an explosion of joy they will never forget! :,)
This universe’s Sarah when the Soggies rule: “This is Joe’s fault, isn’t it.”
(https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/fault-2)
This is going to backfire on Sarah hard, isn’t it?
Good, actually.
Yeah, she’s about to have an epiphany in the Worst Way Possible.
I do like Sarah, but she really does need to recognize Joyce’s competence and agency in a way she only partially does so far, along with the existing Raidah Problem, not that Joe has been shown to have any real issue with her harshness. (If anything, he likes that about her.)
Like this: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-10/01-birthday-pursuit/wanted/
Sarah, you aren’t the mother
Yeah! Dorothy is the mother!
Nope, she’s the older sister and when dealing with ‘used to be a scuzzball’ boyfriends, that can be even worse.
https://i.imgur.com/e6vWh35.png
Someone told me they liked my Sarah so I drew this.
“Don’t talk to me or my little sister ever again.”
You draw an excellent Sarah
You draw an excellent everyone, to be honest!
Reminds me of my two sisters, actually.
Frankly, I just really like your artstyle in general.
Best ship ever. Nice drawing, you got better each day;
Yay
The way you draw Sarah has the energy of like, the unattainable hot older girl from an early 2000s cartoon
pls continue to draw many sarahs yoto
Might I suggest setting Joe up with a hunky muscular jock twice his size?
Given how big Joe is, you’re asking for a hominid of another species.
What species was Beef again?
Gigantopithecus, I believe
I was pretty sure that H. sapiens is the largest hominid species, or at least the largest within Homo.
Admittedly my paleoanthropology is not great
I think “hominid” refers to the taxonomic family that includes gorillas, orangutans, and Gigantopithecus as well as the genus Homo. But I have to confess that I find the modern technical vocabulary of Homo, Hominini, Homininae, Hominidae, Hominoidea and so on less than fully clear and illuminating.
Sounds like a snippet from a Three Stooges scene.
Phylogeny do be like that sometimes.
Neanderthals were shorter, but more heavily built
Yes, you get it.
This is how dumbing of age breaks into monster fucking.
I like the way you think
Better call Jeph Jacques.
I’m pretty sure this character growth for Sarah. If I recall correctly, when we first met her, she would never would have taken the time out of her life to create an intricate plot to destroy a relationship she disapproved of. She has learned to care about others – not necessary in the healthiest manner, but progress is progress.
I don’t know, how far in were we when she set out to break up Jacob and Raidah?
Weird take, but does NO ONE remember that Joyce was the FIRST of Joyce and Sarah to try and break up Raidah and Jacob? Because she wanted Sarah to get together with Jacob?? Blame it on Sarah all you want, but Joyce is the one who began the conquest
When are you thinking? Because Sarah was like the fuck she gets him within minutes of finding out they were dating.
yesssss spoon-feed me that sweet sweet brewin’ drama, yessssssssss
She’s gonna team up with Dorothy, isn’t she?
Dorothy seems to be mostly okay with it now, she’s too busy spiralling anyway.
Dorothy’s “okay” looks a lot like being rejected and dejected.
I know it’s just a ruse but now I ship SarahJoeJoyce Polycule.
Insomuch that I like the vibe of Sarah being super nurturing to Joyce and super aggressive with Joe. With Joe and Joyce being super cute as a bonus.
Yeah ngl at first I read panel 5 as Joyce talking about Sarah’s unsated lust
I wouldn’t say no, it’d be quite the journey if nothing else.
Maybe Sarah’s next plot is to use one younger sister against another.
That’s right, she’s gonna invite Liz back to seduce Joe!
That would be both interesting and horrifying.
… huh.
I kinda want to see that Sarah/Liz conversation. And also to have an entire bowl of popcorn ready for it.
The thought crossed my mind too. I don’t think Liz would come back, but I think Sarah could learn Liz’s part of their encounter.
I’m guessing at some point Sarah will assemble the convention of the dorm moms of Joyce; Becky, Dorothy and Dina (not a dorm mom but is there). I suppose Jenifer would also be there and maybe Sal. Carla is there, only beacuse she is upset that this metting is not about her.
Becky Sal Dotty and ill probably tell Sarah she is overreacting and maybe let Joyce make her own decisions. Thus leading to an alliance of convenient awfulness between Jennifer and Sarah also Carla who does t want to be excluded but really just wants to toss a pie at everyone. at will lead potentially an awful outcome for all parties involved except Carla who will have hit someone with a pie.
Pretty sure Dina, and by extension Becky, would actively support Joe
Jennifer has actually told the others to let Joyce do her own thing. This feels like an assumption that the “awful” people would all agree. Sarah and Jennifer are hot messes in virtually opposite ways.
Honestly, the Jennifer/Sarah/Carla thematic resonance is underexplored. They all have somewhat distant parents and seem to each have reacted in some interestingly specific ways.
Are Carla’s parents distant? Other than being very busy being not-quite-as-evil/insane-as-Elon? Unless we assume that her narcissism is due to overcompensating for a lack of attention from them, which really doesn’t seem to track. (Or I’ve forgotten something…)
I like this version of Sarah you’ve crafted who would go out of her way to talk to half a dozen people, at least one of whom she actively dislikes.
I’m being genuine btw. She’d agonize over actually approaching Jennifer for help and it’d be a really, really funny scene
I like the idea of Dina as a cool lesbian dorm step-mom.
SAME
Dotty would agree with Sarah in this instance… She really doesn’t like Joe (understandably so), and she also coddles Joyce (less understandably).
I love Sarah
I used to like her a lot (what’s not to like about taking a baseball bat to a rapist) but since the timeskip she’s really embracing being an unpleasant and unlikeable person
I still like her. She’s smart and a little bit evil.
You’re making me wonder what happened to her over the holiday break.
I really love her embracing the cynical side… she’s gonna be a good lawyer I think.
Was it before or after the timeskip that she used Joyce as a tool to break up Jacob’s relationship, with malice towards Raidah and callous indifference to the effects on Joyce and Jacob?
Before, but don’t pretend Joyce didn’t make a choice to lie to Jacob’s brother. She knew full well he was dating another girl. She’s not innocent.
Implying it was ALL Sarah implies that Joyce really doesn’t have agency
Something tells me that catastrophe will happen to Sarah, not to Joyce.
I mean, Joyce already had her mom visit….
Lucy! Sarah you gotta get Joe together with Lucy. It’s the perfect solution to all the problems and surely can be done without any catastrophe whatsoever.
Right up till Joyce and Walky hook up.
Joyce and Walky?!
Yeah, right. Maybe in some parallel universe!
I think Sarah will come around eventually.
It won’t be today but I’m hoping it’ll be before she seriously hurts her relationship with Joyce.
I agree. I’m not sure anything can seriously hurt her relationship with Joyce, granted, but we’ll see.
Rooting for Joe just cause the entire cast is so against him lol like I totally understand why but. AS A READER I love him and he and joyce are cute so there
That’s what forgiveness sounds like — screaming and then silence.
Jerrrrrrrrrrry! That kills people!
Sarah’s conflicted. She wants to break them up, so she can have one of them for herself. She just doesn’t know WHICH one.
I think your relationship will be a disaster so I will cause a disaster so that your relationship won’t be a disaster. What do you not understand?
Ps that “You are forgiven” gave me such a nice warmth on this Monday morning
Forgiveneessss is more than saying sorryyyyyyyyyyy
Yeah, Joe’s not even offering any pizza or donuts. It’s like he doesn’t care if Sarah starves.
Do you know who didn’t appeared on Joe’s donut table, after the “Do list” thing? Yeah, exactly: Sarah.
But this makes no sense, because in this storyline, no donut has left.
No donut will be left behind!
wonder if anyone gets that reference.
Genuinely, I wonder if it might be best for the two of them to just…? And get it over with. Joyce is an atheist now, and Joe does love her in his own way. If he knocks her up, I don’t know where Illinois stands post-Dobbs, but she’s got a car – or she could go ahead and keep the brat.
I mean, just because she’s atheist doesn’t mean she’d be comfortable getting an abortion. Not only is it not a switch you flip, but also people are complicated and have complicated feelings about shit happening to their bodies.
Also, how would that resolve literally anything with Sarah?
Sarah could be the host mother!
Why Illinois? And Joyce definitely doesn’t have a car.
…right, Indiana, I meant. Of course I meant Indiana. (For the rest of the post I have no excuse.)
Illinois is firmly pro- women’s health, gender care supporting. I’m a little bit astonished but immensely pleased considering our last governor was basically a Republican Vulture Capitalist.
And why are we jumping immediately to “knocks her up”. Plenty of college kids have plenty of sex without anyone getting pregnant.
Joyce is already taking birth control and we can assume Joe is practiced in using condoms.
Also, she doesn’t have a car. None of the kids in the main cast have cars.
So either
– Dorothy will chat with Sarah and help her be like, “Oh okay this will work.”
– Sarah finds someone to seduce Joe and we see a repeat of Anti-Joyce like in It’s Walky with (squad I can’t remember). But I hope not.
– Sarah creates a league of allies to persue wacky sitcom hijinks to break them up.
Ok, now Sarah is getting obnoxious.
Yeah, I’d honestly much rather her go the aggressive, “Fine, but if you cheat on her I will feed your manhood to a woodchipper while it’s attached to you” route. This route is…
I forsee Joyce snapping. Hard
I forsee a screaming match between Joyce and Sarah.
I feel like this is a step too far for Sarah. If she executes her plan to break up Joyce and Joe and it works, it’s easy for Sarah to step in and say “See? I told you you couldn’t trust him. This is why you listen to your big sister Sarah.” The problem is, if that plan were to backfire, or if Joyce were to ever find out that Sarah tried this plan, it would shatter Joyce’s trust in Sarah forever, possibly even leading to Joyce requesting a dorm transfer like Jennifer did to get away from Ruth. I can understand why Sarah feels like she needs to be both highly protective of Joyce and extremely mistrustful of Joe, since the first time Sarah let Joyce do something on her own, she was roofied and almost r*ped, and Joe is, as she put it, “a serial philanderer” who not only created a “Do-List” of all the hot girls in college and their dorm addresses, but was also involved in two sexual scandals involving both a T.A. (Penny) and a fellow student (Roz). This is not suggesting that Joe would do something like that to Joyce, but Sarah’s complete lack of trust in Joe and the overwhelming need to protect her “little sister” is a recipe for disaster.
TLDR: Sarah needs to step back and let Joyce make her own choices, as well as be more willing to accept that people like Joe can change.
Jennifer didn’t request a dorm transfer to get away from Ruth. She was moved to a different dorm after it was discovered that she and Ruth were in a relationship (and that Ruth was suicidal).
Ah, my bad.
How sure are we Sarah isn’t Joe’s sister? Because that’s how she’s behaving here…
That’s because Amber is Joe’s sister. Well, step-sister.
Sarah no. Mistakes are a way to grow too
Stop treating your “little sister” like shit, Sarah.
And in the next strip Sarah bumps into Dotty.
Everyone is hating on Sarah but let’s be real here. As far as she is concerned Joyce is hooking up with some misogynistic creeper who sees her only for her sexual attributes. I’ve heard enough stories about women hooking up with men like that and then being alienated from their friends and families and being taken advantage of for years. Sarah is not wrong, she just doesn’t know how far Joe has come.
She’s also skeptical he’s changed at all, and reinforcing that skepticism by not listening.
If Sarah’s acting on incomplete or inaccurate information and refusing to listen to Joyce and get more up-to-date information, then she’s wrong.
“He changed/I can fix him” is really less up-to-date information and more a very unreliable opinion when it comes to romance. You don’t trust the optimism of three people, an addict, a person having a manic episode and a person in love.
Sarah will listen better after the initial feelings have cooled a bit. It really hasn’t been that long (in-universe) since Joe said and did some awful things. It’s been less than a year since Joe’s dad hit on Sarah. For us real people it’s been 10 years. I recommend everyone got to the Sarah+Joe tags and got to the very beginning for a refresher.
On the one hand, I don’t think she’s in the wrong for distrusting Joe; on the other hand, I don’t think your scenario of women being isolated from their friends applies here. Joe isn’t forcing Joyce to choose between him and Sarah or gaslighting her into thinking all her friends hate him, Sarah just hates him, and Joyce is putting her foot down and refusing to let Sarah control her social life.
Joe is, in fact, pretty much the only person in the cast who doesn’t think it’s his Destined Right to boss Joyce around and/or control her ‘for her own good.’
Or for someone else’s harm. Sarah did not try to feed Joyce to Jacob for anybody’s good at all. Just to harm Raidah.
Oh what I meant was that this might be what is on Sarah’s mind regarding Joe. Her and Becky were on the receiving end of a lot of this kind of crap and Sarah already assumes the worst of Joe anyway.
I reviewed the Joe+Sarah tag a few days ago to see if he’d ever said anything redeeming…and honestly it just made me hate him more. I’m still hugely on the side of Joe shouldn’t date or have sex with anyone for at least the rest of the school year…
That being said in the world of problematic characters: I miss Jacob
Is this a Sarah heel turn, or has she always been like this?
It’s honestly a miracle she isn’t going for the baseball bat, she mellowed out a lot.
I hope Sarah will discuss this situation with Dorothy. Also because if Dorothy is really starting to understand that she has a crush on Joyce, Sarah would have any problem asking her directly about it.
Oh crap, that would be a great setup for them trying to hook Joyce up with Dotty, Sarah would see it as perfect.
Sarah without doubt. But I would be worried about Becky’s reaction.
Joyce also does bulldoze over other people’s feelings, and this is not a first time.
‘Amber doesn’t want to be family.’ ‘Well too bad, we don’t always get what we want.’
‘Is Sarah cool with us?’ ‘No, I’m not.’ ‘It’s fine, Sarah actually totally trusts me.’
Yes, Joyce is right that Joe is changing, and at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter if Sarah likes Joe or not. But it’s not the first time that when she wants something, she doesn’t care if other people are uncomfortable with it.
In this particular case, I’d call Sarah’s discomfort a burden. It’s not her relationship to have opinions about, especially if she’s not gonna so much as ask if Joyce maybe knows something she doesn’t.
Well if this blows up and Joyce becomes devastated over it, it would be Sarah’s problem same as with Dana…
That’s a gigantic “IF”, right there.
Romance sometimes ends in heartbreak. It’s not ok to prevent one’s roommate from ever experiencing romance so that they are never heartbroken. If Sarah could have prevented Dana’s mother from dying, that would have been a good thing.
Of course not.
It is however perfectly okay to try to keep your roommate and friend from being exploited by a creep who’s just trying to manipulate his way into her pants.
We know Joe’s not doing that, but Sarah has no reason to change her opinion of him. Even less so after yesterday.
So not at all like with Dana, but also not really like this scenario either, where Joyce is well acquainted with Joe.
Nothing like Dana, but exactly this scenario – as far as Sarah has any reason to know.
Romance, yes. However as far as Sarah knows this isn’t romance, this is a creep being predatory to her little sister.
… and that’s her job.
And same as with Jacob. Sarah didn’t give a tinker’s curse about Joyce’s likely heartbreak when she was using Joyce to get at Raidah.
In this specific instance, why should Joyce prioritize other people’s feelings over her own? Why would it be the right thing to break up with a boy she likes a lot and who likes her a lot just because Sarah is unhappy about said boy?
It’s not bulldozing other people’s feelings to just… not do what they want all the time.
She absolutely shouldn’t and I don’t think that was the intent.
She could however talk to her big sister about how this has been building for a long time and why she thinks Joe’s changing. It’s kind of interesting how compartmentalized Joyce’s been about this. She’s been reaching out to Joe for support and serious conversations since as far back as her visit home last semester and neither Sarah nor Dorothy have even the slightest clue.
She could, andi agree that the compartmentalization is interesting. I personally think it stems from Joyce understanding, subconsciously, that if she told Sarah or Dorothy about ‘hey, Joe is a really good friend, you know?’ that it would result in Joe being taken away from her.
That she’s being more open now is a sign both of her confidence in Joe and her confidence in herself: Sarah and Dorothy are not in fact the bosses of her. Not that they’ve exactly gotten the memo yet.
Is this one of those life situations where Sarah, and maybe Joyce, will never know Joe was not serious about that exchange?
I have been described as over-serious and exceedingly straightforward when all the stuff goes a bit weird. This is one of the examples of why I hated being misunderstood as an adolescent, but managed to stumble into it (not like Joe here) anyway.
I’m not convinced Joe is sure whether he was serious about that or not.
Notice that he just says “I’m sorry,” and not “I’m sorry for making a joke in poor taste.” It seems like this was a genuine fuckup.
I mean he wasn’t actually going to fuck Sarah, that much is clear. I think he’d rather get mike’d than cheat on Joyce. Imo it was a full on muscle memory reflex. Body acted on instinct and it took a second for his brain to catch up
Put me in the group of people who don’t know that Joe wasn’t serious
I hope Sarah also has some character growth coming.
She seems to be regressing at the moment
The emotional setup of this arc seems pretty clear that she has to get over her dislike of Joe to trust Joyce knows what she’s getting into and tbh it’s not a poor idea, it wasn’t that long ago that she got on birth control and had to get glasses and was fed up with people smothering her. Joyce is pretty grown, she doesn’t need a police force anymore.
Aaaaand what did we learn from the last time we tried to meddle in someone else’s love life, Sarah?
That Joyce doesn’t have great judgement when she’s crushing one someone?
That’s different because last time, one of the people was someone she despised. Totally different now.
I dunno, she’s made it fairly clear she despises Joe.
(that’s the joke)
Soo avoiding one catastrophe by setting up another one?
She’ll try to break them up by seducing Joe, and accidentally discovering his newfound sincerity, and falling for Joe.
I’ve read that book! (At least 20 times… probably more) Though usually it’s Dorothy (bluestocking) or Roz (feminist/activist), not Sarah (grouchy archetype) as the heroine. Sarahs are usually paired with sunshine archetypes (… Joyce…), not reformed rakes. It would be fun to play with mixing up romance tropes. I’m starting to really agree with the polycule advocates. Some fantastic possibilities there. (But also I understand if people want to be monogamous or heterosexual– nobody has to change their orientation for my mental ships.)
or you can leave them to make their own mistakes like normal people?
yeah let’s not go all telenovela about this
That’s the most unhinged thing I’ve ever read. Do you have a fever?
Oh boy, another arc where Joyce’s friends learn not to make her decisions for her. Not excited that this is the direction we’re going with this.
Each of these arcs has had its own flavor: this one is Sarah-flavored.
I don’t feel like this very often, but man, sometimes it feels like Raidah has a point.
She’s a terrible social climber whose more concerned with her appearances and how she’s perceived than anything of merit. But it also feels like she’s largely correct about Sarah NOW. (She wasn’t in earlier comics, where we see Sarah was more than just. This.)
In all seriousness, I do not know a good way to handle the situation Sarah’s in. I was in a vaguely similar one when I was a kid, and I handled it poorly in a different way. She’s justified in despising Joe and not trusting him.
The correct-sounding ways also sound like unrealistic, contrived skits from a conflict resolution assembly in middle school.
As long as it doesn’t come during the 26th anniversary of DoA, the relationship will be fine… and since nobody can wait that long, at least the 15th
Which means Joe needs to sort himself out by who he really is *plays A Question of Lust by Depeche Mode*
It’s interesting how things have changed and matured over the arcs.
Even if it were remotely possible to have happened then (it wasn’t.), it’d have done early Joyce no favors to do anything sexual with early Joe. If his dry spell and times he stops to think weren’t notable, as well as his supportive behavior outside what his dick can potentially get involved with, all this would look a *lot* worse.
A lotta hornyguys don’t mean to take advantage, or even arrogantly think of it as a kind of helping, to start a sexual relationship with someone who’s vulnerable from shifting beliefs under tough circumstances…someone who’s sexually repressed, but curious and experimenting. This is, yeah, an easy situation to fuck up BAD.
But for someone who’s been repressed as hell, sometimes a very sexual partner who’s done a lot *can* be a big help. Things working out IRL in similar relationships has depended on so many exact little established details about him. A lot depends on Joyce, too, and she’s communicating her boundaries and limits well. For all the immature moments, she’s showing her own surprise mature ones in all this too, growing as a person.
I’m hoping that, even if this doesn’t work out, and whatever the setbacks are, it won’t be for any of the reasons anyone was expecting.
Most of the ways for Joe to fuck up here are accidental, or engineered against his wishes. It’s just a form of human for him to be a slut who was an idiot when fresh out of high school, and had to drink a couple of gallons of respect women juice (that may take a lifetime to absorb).