tomorrow’s strip, up early on patreon, is pretty big
Scott Rivers @alasbabylon.bsky.social ⋅ 3h
Assigned Media @assignedmedia.org ⋅ 18h
Iantos @iantos.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Phil Lewis @phillewis.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 20h
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Jon Munitz @jonmunitz.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 20h
Chris McFeely @chrismcfeely.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
TFNation @tfnationltd.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Sorenson & McFeely
Lost media
Pre-recorded script reading
Special guest cast
Details below!
tfnation.com/blog/20...
#TFNation #Transformers
Iantos @iantos.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
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Dorothy competing with Amzi-Girl for worst decision making today.
Like I said yesterday, I think that’s the feature, not the bug.
That is, I’m pretty sure Dorothy, while also supporting this cause, is more interested in being arrested than actually doing the protest. Hence the tent – she isn’t planning to use it, she’s just trying to provoke an arrest.
Possibly because she can’t kiss Joyce if she’s in prison.
The obvious ironic outcome being that Joyce will be the only other person arrested and they will end up in holding together.
I would politely dispute this. Sexual/romantic tension could definitely be one motivating factor, but I would argue a larger – if not primary – motivator is the desire to make a difference.
Among other things, that is what drove her to complete AG’s suit, offer to help with math note-taking, and make Kraft dinner for Joyce. That was her driving goal in life, it seems.
Yes. I think people are being too quickly to attribute most of Dorothy’s motivation to her tension with Joyce. And that make sense as that have been a prominent aspect of her character arc in the last few story lines. But her sense of lost and disillusionment with her dreams are still a part of her character. And, importantly, just before she made the decision to join the protest she was talking about her frustration with the political situation.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/04-the-only-exception/reallysucks/
Really, I think more than “wanting to avoid kissing her”, I think the way Joyce influences Dorothy the most is as a motivator. “Your anger is a tool for kindness” and all.
I agree, and would take it further. There’s no separating motivations into buckets when determining the intensity of an emotional state, measuring this much stress over one part and that much over another. That’s not how the brain evolved.
There’s a walnut-sized section called the amygdala at the base of the brain. It’s like the rest of the gray matter is the amygdala’s giant afro.
Incoming sensory data gets routed through the amygdala for pattern recognition and emotional processing.
If the pattern indicates a known danger (tear gas and snipers) or an unexplained contradiction to lifelong assumptions (cognitive dissonance over sexuality), the amygdala pings the adrenal gland to release stress hormones for a fight-or-flight reaction.
This works great for dodging jaguars or kneeing helmeted goons in the head. Unfortunately, modern problems take longer to resolve than law-of-the-jungle fights.
Stress hormones take several seconds to filter out of the bloodstream after the brain gets context the danger has passed. Wouldn’t want to relax before the final jump scare of the action sequence, right?
You only have one bloodstream, though, so the hormonal results from any stressor end up applying to ALL stressors. This includes hunger signals, sex drive, fatigue, and the core mental needs of connection, novelty, excitement, and autonomy.
The brain keeps developing until the mid-20s, and it takes that long for logical reasoning to fully catch up with impulsive emotional decision-making. But emotions always go first, leaving the rest of the brain to explain later.
This makes life difficult for people who need to fit everything into neat pie charts and binary explanations, so it’s no surprise that Dorothy wants to channel all the swirling stress into one defining moment that can change everything.
But life isn’t about your definition at any single instant. It’s about choosing a direction and building experiences worth remembering, whether other people view them as important or trivial.
Slight addition: that study that’s quoted as saying “the human brain keeps developing until age 25” didn’t actually say that. They said “the human brain definitely keeps developing until age 25 (based on these people whose brains we’ve been scanning every year), but we’re out of funding and can’t continue the study, so we can say that the brain definitely keeps developing until then but we can’t comment on afterward”.
Also that bit of pseudo science is mostly quoted as a reason to deprive grown ass adults of rights including the right to transition until they reach 25 instead of treating people who are adults by our chosen metric as having all the rights of adults.
@Proxie THIS… I hate people pulling that factoid up when any adult person under the age of 25 is asked to take responsibility for their actions or, as you said, to deprive them of choices in the first place.
(Apologies to you Sapph-o – didn’t mean to include you under ‘everyone else’ below – I reloaded the page prior to your reply, so it didn’t show up until after I posted).
TIL. Updating knowledge base. Thanks!
… except that being arrested, which appears to be her primary goal given that she bought a tent she knows she will not need specifically to antagonize the police, will make no difference at all. Except the difference of her being in prison instead of in her dorm.
I suggested one possible motivation to seek arrest that which I specifically stated was uncertain, and ALL of y’all dogpiled on that (the exceptions being SR and Proxiehunter shooting down bad pseudoscience). So congrats to everyone else on pedantry, I guess. My actual point stands uncontested.
**Carla flipping the bird dot jpg**
I appreciate the conversation, honestly. I’ve had to update a lot of what I thought was fact after leaving a high-demand religion, so I’m all about uncovering the leftover pseudo-science.
In the end, decisions matter more than motivations. You can have an excuse, and it might even be a good excuse, but it won’t change the consequences of your actions.
Amazi-Girl is a super-hero fighting on behalf of a blatant stand-in for Palestine which is apparently the new trend among fictional superheroes so she’s kind of getting in ahead of the curve.
What about among non-fictional superheroes?
The new Superman has a very, very thinly veiled Palestine plotline, even though the aggressors are a Russia stand-in.
He’s non-fictional now? Why hasn’t he done anything about Trump?
you know this story is based on real protests that happened at IU, right? the only parts that are different are the characters and the presence of a vigilante. the sniper thing ACTUALLY HAPPENED. https://www.heraldtimesonline.com/story/news/education/campus/2024/04/30/answering-questions-about-the-gaza-war-protests-in-ius-dunn-meadow/73503596007/
No, no, everything Dorothy does is perfectly planned and rational, and if you suggest it’s a bad or impulsive decision in any way you’re infantalising her, apparently.
+1 Daibhid lol
Well this can only work out excellently, I’m sure!
but do we, the readers, know what she needs?
To make out with Joyce?
This is the one.
That’s what she wants, and is trying to find an excuse not to.
I disagree. I think she and Joyce work better as friends.
Also, if this is what her being with Joyce does to her… maybe less than that.
To maybe take an extended break from school and her other stressors while increasing how often she visits her therapist?
The therapist she sees at school?
Telehealth exists! I do video call appointments with mine when I can’t make the drive
Obviously she needs a better therapist.
Or at least to stop lying to the one she has.
It’s not the therapist’s fault if she’s withholding information.
Patients always withhold information.
It’s a rule.
What they try to withhold can be a clue.
Gregory House taught us this.
Better emotional coping skills?
A less-damnable author?
…cinnamon toast crunch?
The secret to why kids love cinnamon toast crunch?
*I* wanna know why they like Apple Jacks, when they don’t taste like apples!
To discover for herself what she wants, maybe? We can guess, but the only one who could conclusively answer would be Willis.
A gun!
The approval of her own conscience.
This has my vote.
To know how many licks it takes to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?
To act with integrity? With no regrets?
It is time to de-ass the area.
In the Army, it was, “Un-ass the AO”, lol!
…she’s standing outside the fence, Dotty
Possibly at the top of the staircase in the background. I see a pink smear there that might just be background shading or it might be the tear gas going off from the previous comic.
Don’t take words out of my brain, that’s eery
I am of two minds. I am glad that Dorothy’s taking a stand, but I also think that we should help people the way they want to be helped. If more experienced and dug-in voices are asking you, a neophyte, to make a strategic retreat, then you probably should do it.
something something it’s not called smartening of age
Chaps, explosions, something something something, We Win!
*first word should be ‘chaos’
And somehow she’s actually avoided the danger. That’s kinda funny.
Thus far – I can’t help but imagine that Willis mentioning snipers positioned on rooftops is going to be a literal Chekhov’s Gun.
Hard to say. Snipers at protests are just a common feature of protests in the US.
My new nightmare scenario is that Amazi-girl swoops in to carry Dorothy to safety, but because of the violence she’s already used against the police, the sniper might try to take her down while she’s holding Dorothy.
Dorothy, what??? This isn’t really about that right now 0-0
Up there, she can be garbage.
+1.
So, this ship is getting built.
Wait, Dorothy and Jocelyne? … OK, that might actually work.
Jocelyne is (mostly) not into girls.
She didn’t used to be, but according to her that’s changing
What was it that Ruth said in the Walkyverse before “No regrets”? I think that might apply here.
… before hit by a trunk.
Math? Something to do with integers.
Act with integers; no irrationals
Willis wouldn’t do that whole “Math with integrals” thing again. Too derivative.
He may have already covered that area, but it’s a slippery slope.
“Act with integrity, no regrets!”
Considering what happened to that universe’s Ruth after she said that, I hope not.
No Regerts, I think
Yes, Dorothy, I agree with you, but I also disagree.
You have to think collectively. Thinking in group, how can your actions can be bad to the group. I know that leadership in protest can be kind of ironic, but there’s no revolution alone.
I don’t like a lot of the admonishing of Dorothy people seem to be having in reaction to this strip but the more I think about it, I think this is the most reasonable one and fits well with her character writing. Dorothy’s goal was to be president. A common theme that comes up when analyzing the modern democratic party of the past 20ish years has always been that they focus too much on ‘one guy/gal solving everything’ in the form of heavily focusing on presidential politics over state and local elections.
I think Dorothy as a person hasn’t thought that hard about politics or even life as a collective struggle. I think she very much has always been a lone wolf and has felt alienated from basically everyone she’s ever met. I think her current actions reflect that lack of thought towards others. Her response to Joycelene is similarly self centered and lonely.
In a lot of ways I think Dorothy reflects this central fiction many leaders in the democratic party have fallen into: a need for decorum, a focus on sole leadership and sole action rather than collectivism, and a focus on grand standing rather than communal resistance.
A lot of it is also Dorothy’s lack of experience (in both protests, politics, and probably understanding of power and resistance), but I think her general headspace isn’t really well set to actually open her eyes and learn from the present moment beyond her short term emotional state.
Trying to make yourself the main character is just going to result in the story being a cautionary tale.
Oh, hey, Asma.
Untagged Asma even.
Either Willis forgot to tag Asma, or that’s someone else who looks kinda similar to her.
I think someone similar. Different jacket and skirt colour.
For fuck’s sake Dorothy, just go to therapy.
This isn’t activism. It’s self-destructive masochism.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/03-joementum/sustainable/ seems she wanted a bigger rebellion
Dorothy, when the fucking protest leaders are telling you to leave, you should leave.
Jocelyn, maybe you should drag her out of there…?
The protest organizers weren’t looking to use their scarce resources on jail solidarity and legal defense — but, they probably will, for her, anyway.
Because it becomes about protesting for the right to protest, after a while.
*SMDH*
Sorry. Just … yeah. A little too much touched by the carceral state to be non-curmudgeonly about this.
No, no, Jocelyne no. She’s the one, together with Asma, that I most worried about jail.
said the quiet part out loud
yeah this is what I meant a few days ago in saying that this is just performative for Dorothy. She doesn’t care right now about the politics and history that led to one country bombing children and people protesting that. She probably WOULD care and be invested once she learned more about it, but that’s not what she’s about right now.
Right now she just wants to get her head cracked open by a police baton, and I’m not sure why, though I have some theories. One of them is that she has internalized the idea that suffering is pure. She wants to be a martyr, and the cause is irrelevant. This protest could be about
IsraelBulmeria, about ICE raids on immigrants, police brutality against black people, indigenous people protecting their water supply or reproductive rights being cut and the loss of access to safe abortion. She would jump in and do this regardless of the cause and how much she truly knows about it. It’s not about what the protest is trying to accomplish but about her need to do some grandstandingOr, as per my theory, her need to be arrested.
Because there is no Joyce in prison.
And also there is no being President in prison.
Prison is her safe way out of her problems. Which is a helluva thing to say.
Yup.
This is 99% why I support it being Bulmeria not Gaza.
Why?
Because this is about Dorothy’s bisexual awakening about Joyce. It’s not about the protests save as a backdrop.
To be fair to Dorothy, it’s honestly about a lot of things, not just that.
Honestly the Bulmeria thing doesn’t make it much less egregious. To me at least. Not when it’s transparently commentary on Palestine
In this case, while we can definitely infer the author’s position (and I support it), I think its also not what the story is about.
Sure, but a genocide protest being the “backdrop”/set dressing for two white women’s bisexual awakening in most contexts isn’t… idk, tasteful? necessary? Some word.
It’s hard for it to be anything else in college – the rest of the world feels like distant set dressing, almost less than real. I appreciate that this story seems to at least understand the flaws in that feeling.
Yeah, Israel/Palestine is my constant ongoing trauma in the real world. I am triggered AF about it, by design. It’s very close to me and to my family.
I’m a very longtime reader, and perhaps it’s silly to care so much about a comic, but Willis comics have been the one constant in my life. I get sick when I see similarities to Israel/Palestine in this one little relatively-safe spot on the internet, and avoiding the comments has been self-care. I don’t want to lose the comic and this space.
To be very vulnerable here: I need Bulmeria to be a fictional country having a civil war, not a hot-take Western stand-in for a real and terrible slow-motion catastrophe where my one precious homeland is rapidly filling with graves. You know?
I’m so sorry.
@Leorale I’m so so sorry. And It’s not silly at all to feel that way.
I’ve loved and taken great comfort in this comic for a decade now, but this storyline has been making me so nauseous to the point I cancelled my patreon membership- the strips will continue appearing there for me until August though, so now I get a knot in my stomach every night at 9pm-ish PST hoping it will veer off this story path and dreading that it won’t… >_<
Sending you love, dude.
Just out of curiosity, would it be anymore tasteful or necessary if they weren’t white?
I still think Willis should have made it clearer Bulmeria wasn’t meant to be a stand-in for Israel or Palestine, because the comment section has been very very sure this whole time, and I have continued to be just as sure that we were going to get a general coverage of protests and police handling thereof plus Dorothy and Joyce maybe kissing, rather than the whole comic stopping dead to talk at length about Gaza.
This isn’t an apolitical comic strip, but it’s always talked about specific political events strictly in the past-tense, due to the sliding time scale and now also the buffer. There was a general election, for example, but it happened exclusively in bonus strips, which have always been more willing and able to discuss something specific to the current year while it was happening.
The more obvious it gets that this isn’t just not about Bulmeria for Dorothy, but for the story in general, the more folks are going to get (understandably) angry.
The protest is definitely a stand-in for the Gaza protests last summer – the events and rhetoric are a very close parallel to the specific IU Dunn Meadow protest.
It’s not as clear that Bulmeria itself is a direct stand-in for Israel. There are certainly similarities, but we basically know nothing of the nuances of the situation there, so in that sense I think you’re right. Willis is focusing on the effects on their characters and to a lesser extent on the protest/police violence itself.
For instance, as some have brought up, that some characters (like Dorothy) are Jewish or partly Jewish isn’t going to play a role here, since “Bulmeria” isn’t tied to Jews in the same ways Israel is. It’s not even clear that Asma being Muslim is tied more than indirectly to her being at the protest – since we don’t know if Islam is tied to the Bulmerian genocide at all.
One way this does bother me a little bit is that it ties into a problem with some protest strategies – it’s very easy for this to happen in real life. For the focus to shift from the topic of the protest to the right to protest and to police violence against protesters. In some cases, this works fine: If you’re protesting police violence against minorities, highlighting police violence against minority protestors falls right in with the agenda. Less so with protesting the genocide in Gaza.
I wonder if that will come up in the comic.
Look. I’ve given up on trying to argue that this isn’t supposed to more or less mirror the specific protest against the genocide in Gaza last year, but I feel the need to stress that my argument was always coming from a place of “why would Willis want to open themselves up to that, given how unlikely it is that the comic is going to actually go deep enough into the topic for the reference to feel earned”.
So: obligatory reminder that Dunn Meadows is in fact where IU protests always take place, and that there have been many famous ones there, but…
“The protest is definitely a stand-in for the Gaza protests last summer – the events and rhetoric are a very close parallel to the specific IU Dunn Meadow protest.”
…what I actually said was, “Willis should have made it clearer that Bulmeria isn’t a stand-in for Israel or Palestine”, and you agree with me on that in your next paragraph, so. Moving on from that point.
“Willis is focusing on the effects on their characters and to a lesser extent on the protest/police violence itself.”
Right: there’s a lesser focus on the protest and police violence.
And… so far a much lesser focus on what’s actually happening in Bulmeria, including the genocide there. To the point where we don’t even actually know which group is dying.
Which, as I keep saying, and as is starting to be commented on more and more by other folks including today and elsewhere in this thread, is problematic, given the narrative’s actual focus on the emotional turmoil of its protagonists, none of whom are even a little bit Palestinian.
I imagine that trying to write ANYTHING during or immediately after the Gaza protests without addressing them probably felt like slow suffocation, but I really think some Patreon strips of the whole cast minus Mary at the protest… would just have been the better part of valor here.
20/20 hindsight.
A protest that goes badly is a great inciting moment for Dorothy to find new political direction, but it’s very easy to read this particular protest as being… a white girl making everything about her. And unless that was the intention — which, maybe! I’m not a mind-reader — a lot of readers are going to be even more frustrated and even more angry.
Sorry. Wasn’t trying to argue with you, but more highlighting the distinction between the protest being based on that particular IU Gaza protest and Bulmeria being exactly Israel.
You’re fine!
I’m just tired, heh. Tired and bracing myself for the next few days or weeks of the comment section.
Honestly y9u could just leave it for a couple of days if it gets too much, i did that last time it got too terrible and it did me good.
That’s more or less the plan, yeah. I’ll just miss it! The comment section is great sometimes.
It does feel like Dorothy is trying to get arrested at this point, and not really there for the cause.
Absolutely.
This is not about Bulmeria.
It’s not about “Bulmeria” for Dorothy, definitely.
I feel like it’s a cause she notionally accepts as correct, but probably it’s not a hot-button issue. But here she’s trying to be what she thinks she “should” be. Because she called the shots back in the previous semester when they were in danger, and everyone there made it out fine and she was unscathed, but people died.
Dorothy is dealing with disillusionment with the system. It’s a system that rewards using expendable pawns, that doesn’t exist for the good of all, and while Raidah was a jerk about the whole thing (she brought up Dorothy’s presidential ambitions out of nowhere in conversation so she could dress her down as an aspiring war criminal) she wasn’t wrong about what that job ends up meaning.
I feel like given what she said before she ran back into the protest, she fundamentally wants to do the right thing and the various pressures on her at this point have set her up to Act With Integrity,
No Regretsand any sort of backing down doesn’t register as strategic but just another step backward while they change the rules on you again and again.She’s just so, so, so, so tired of compromise in the name of getting what you want later; that later never really seems to come.
Pretty much. For most of her life, Dorothy has trying to be her ideal self. Noble goal, but trying to be you’re best is easier once you’ve managed to figure out what your baseline self is. Bisexual awaking, crushed ideals, or what have you, to me it’s all part of an identity crisis brought about by having to deal with questions about herself that she’s never taken time to think about suddenly demanding answers. If it weren’t for all the very real trauma she’s experienced, she might have coasted for years–maybe even shaken off Raidah’s comments as being bitter and mean spirited.
food every three weeks, hydration every three days, air every three minutes
I think I’m gonna need more than that.
Live to fight another day Dotty. Tasers and tear gas hurt a lot. First, you feel your muscles tense up, then comes the sharp needling pain all over. You end up on the ground, but you don’t even feel yourself hitting it because of the pain.
“YOU’RE NOT MY MANAGER!”
RIZZ
Hack: want to avoid the sexual tension with your best friend? try getting arrested!
LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR!
“DOWN WITH BULMERIA!”
“We’re for Bulmeria.”
“Oh.”
I’m like 85% sure Bulmeria are the ones doing the genocide and not the victims of it, and I think Dorothy is also like 85% sure of that.
I think the Bulmerians are conducting an internal genocide.
Only in the sense that Israel is conducting an internal genocide.
? We don’t actually know anything about the situation in Bulmeria. Other than the genocide and US support.
It’s obviously a stand in for Israel/Palestine, but seems different in that there’s no mention of a Palestine or Gaza stand in. The real life protests are often referred to as Gaza protests and are full of mentions of Gaza and Palestine. Here, probably just to keep the fictional references to a minimum, we just hear about “Bulmeria”, who are clearly the villains, but there’s no naming of the victims.
Yeah. there’s literally talk about mercenaries doing it versus the government.
I’ve mentioned I really would like more fictional context in-universe.
If you see people protesting evil, introspect about the protest, realize the protestors are right, realize that ‘you COULD go home to the safe and warm spot unlike the people who cant because they are being bombed’, and decide to protest despite violence…. THAT IS PROTESTING AND IT IS GENUINE. Like I really dislike some of the reactions here that seem to strip away the nuance that lead Dorothy to this decision. Yeah she’s horny, yeah maybe she is a rebel without a cause, but she’s also a good person having an EMPATHY DRIVEN REACTION. Is it selfish, yes? Is it foolish, yes? Is it protesting from a genuine place? YES.
“People aren’t either wicked or noble. They’re like chef’s salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict.” ~ Lemony Snicket
WOW, that is an amazing quote. I’m gonna use that. Ta!
At worst, she’s going to make a little more work for the cops. And I figure it’s important to her to learn what jail is like, to better understand the institutions that concern her. There’s some good reasons and bad reasons for her to keep protesting and probably more bad reasons than good reasons to give up.
Um, no.
Nobody needs to learn what jail is like.
Nobody needs to risk that kind of physical violence and violation.
Nobody needs to sign up for an *extra* helping of mental and physical incapacition due to trauma.
It does nobody much good to get arrested on one’s own.
Or even in a group, without careful planning.
Sorry, sorry, not trying to rain on you. I just mean — no.
It’s best to avoid being captive in the hands of those who would do us harm, if at all we can.
Oh, D’Oh! Sorry, I misread your post.
You said it’s important “to her.” I had mistakenly read that as being important “for her”.
Different meaning entirely! Sorry about that!
Here I’m riding the wrong hobby-horse…
Ha, well you know what they say prepositions.
What do they say about prepositions?
Or is that a joke, because “about” is also a preposition?
“Speaking prepositions you key can understood language” I believe.
It’s a little funny, I also had someone else misunderstanding a different post of mine almost at the same time – a hilarious joke I made about a book shop banning JK Rowling’s books not because of the content of the books but rather because she’s full of shit. “Separating the art from the artist,” so to speak.
Just a funny coincidence.
That IS funny!
I hadn’t heard that saying. Is it something like,
“Prepositions are the key to understanding language”?
I’m gonna have to use that one… good lesson!
This is a good distillation
OK, did this cross the line from Dorothy doing something she truly believes in to Dorothy doing something self-destructive again? Because I feel like it just did.
Yeaaaah. It’s not a great look
Man, I know Dotty is going through a crisis here, but having participated in many similar sorts of encampments the past few years, going against the explicit recommendations of the protest organizers is uh not ideal. Mostly in that it runs the risk of getting other more vulnerable folks in trouble if there is an unplanned for and non-strategic escalation.
and when ppl were booing me in the comments for saying she was disregarding the group’s desires to make this about her own shit…. lol….. its a white woman being a performative ally! sorry!
Folks used to act all impressed that I’d been to jail. I would do my best to disabuse them of that. I’d tell them:
“Any fool can get themself arrested.
It takes a genius to get away safe.”
…IN the context of protest, I mean!
I certainly DON’T mean to demean or disrespect folks who have been arrested or detained! I only mean that, symbolic or performative arrest, if you’re going out looking for it, it had better be with a group and a plan and a purpose in mind.
Self-“sacrifice” just for the sake of it, is a little selfish.
As Jacques Prévert wrote:
“Martyr, c’est pourrir un peu.”
(‘Self-martyrization can be kind of a rotten thing, sometimes, for those around you and for those who love and support you.” Rough translation.)
I understood what you meant and yeah. Yeah. I’ve encountered people like Dotty in this strip and hell- I was even one of them sometimes when I was a teenager! It’s an unhelpful self-aggrandizing fantasy and not at all how to be a good ally.
So, um, speaking of martyrdom,
…any idea what’s going on with Amazi-Girl?
Is she just trying to kill her host body?
I mean, I get that in these days of disappearances, preventing an arrest can be a matter of life and death. I do get that. I do.
And that, regardless of the possibility for extreme violent (or lethal) escalation raining down on everyone there, Amazi-Girl may genuinely believe she is saving lives, one victim at a time.
I understand that. I’ve been in situations like that. Where undressing was the ONLY way to save a life.
But doing it all by herself just seems… suicidal.
Which I wouldn’t put past Amber.
I don’t see Amazi-Girl as suicidal, but maybe as ready to do Amber in.
*unARRESTING. Not “undressing”. Autocorrect has it out for me today!
*Facepalm* *SMDH*…
Autocorrect really does NOT like words like, “martyrdom,” “self-sacrifice”, “selflessness”, “unarresting”… somebody de-Woke’d my autocorrect!
My focus has primarily been on the two blondes because it’s what’s giving me the most anxiety but as for Amazi-Amber… I dont think she knows either.
Jocelyne is right about that tear gas; it feels fucking awful.
So this IS where we’re going with Dorothy! Fascinating!
I say this *very* much as a Dorothy lover — It intrigues me to no end how Dorothy has a lot of grand ambition with only the faintest sense of how to actually get there. No organizing experience, no (as we’ve seen/heard) volunteer experience, no real causes, almost negative charisma with strangers (as cute as she is to readers!) And this is really, really showcasing ALL of that. How much does she even know *about this cause*? Could she answer questions about it? Does she know about Carla’s folks being part of it? Does she know how to and how not to respond to media inquiries? And you don’t have to be perfect on all of these to *protest*.. but to be *president*?
Dorothy is someone who got told a lot how Mature She Was For Her Age and got stuck at that at like, 14-15 so she’s super mature but at what that would be for a teenager. As everybody else starts orienting towards proper adulthood she’s very rapidly learning how different that is. “Just Don’t Have Any Disqualifying Mental Problems”: not that easy! “Simply Get The Good Grades”: easy to say in theory!
anyway, i’ve been sort of wondering where this was going for Dorothy and i’m pleased to have an idea where we’re headed now, although I’m really curious where this will end for Dorothy. I’m hoping not jail time. That would suck.
It’s fascinating that she wouldn’t be President without any real politics beyond, “Be good.”
Dorothy’s most interesting character trait is that she’s simultaneously highly motivated to be president and just completely uninterested in politics to a somewhat unusual degree. I’ve seen people call her a liberal, but she really isn’t. She never joined any college Democrat groups or anything.
I doubt that was a view she could have had in the past 12 years but Dorothy might have been envisioned as someone who assumed both parties were sincerely interested in helping their constituents but disagreed how.
I had that view when I was 18….and dumb.
I am old enough to remember 1985, when “both parties are interested in helping their constituents” might have flown.
Dorothy’s been through a lot. Roz and Raidah scorn her (which is always a good sign). She was allowed to chose her religion (none) in a small Indiana city. I know that the GOP is always looking for “pick me girls/LGB (but no T)/people of color”, but that at 19 (since 2010) I’m having a difficult time thinking she considers the right wing as anything except what we’ve all known for a decade. That’s a hell of a needle to thread in character writing.
(I had views at 18 that I’ve grown out of also.)
I’m thinking of Dorothy basically as a character who dates all the way back to the Walkyverse too. She’s a character who has to be updated with the changing times.
I remember reading DOA in 2016 and wondering how Dorothy would have reacted to Hillary and Trump given it was the first big repudiation of qualifications vs. well, everything about the Cheeto.
She’s highly ambitious without any causes or really any plans to do anything at all with that ambition, which makes her a shoo-in for Democratic party leadership.
[citation needed that isn’t just your gut feeling]
They’ve always had very detailed plans, famously and infuriatingly in HRC’s case, and Biden accomplished a lot, so. You should probably do some reading.
“They don’t present these plans well to the public?” Absolutely true, and currently made worse by billionaires buying up news outlets that used to be more useful. “Their plans don’t always take obstructionism into account?” Also try, though difficult to take into account before you know how many down-ticket ballots there were. “They don’t have any plans?” No. Comically false.
She does have some volunteer experience, actually. At least very early in the first semester she worked in community kitchen.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/03-up-all-night-to-get-vengeance/kitchen/
But even then, that doesn’t seem something she particularly excited about, and probably stopped going to focus on studying. She probably she did it to tick boxes of “good extra curricular” or something.
At any rate, I agree with everything in your post. It is really fun to see the comic deconstructing Dorothy’s faux maturity like that.
Are you sure Dorothy isn’t Catholic? ‘Cause this is some world-class self-flagelation here
Allow me to remind you: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2012/comic/book-2/02-choosing-my-religion/catholic/
“I’m Jewish and my wife is Catholic. We’re raising our children to be sad” – Jon Stewart
If willis wasn’t concerned about giving away the plot, I imagine there would be a “Who’s gonna get shot by the sniper” poll.
I would actually bet money no one gets shot by the sniper. Remember, the school itself are the ones who called the cops to kick everyone out. If the school killed one of the characters (even indirectly like this) it’d be nearly impossible for any other storyline to feel like it mattered at all.
Such a drastic shift in tone from slice of life comedy to drama could be done as a prestige spin off i guess. Dumbing of Age:Dramatique
I mean I appreciate people live, laugh and cry and then suddenly and rapidly die due to accident, disease, or malicious intent by murderers and or governments but still.
It’s not the first time, or the second. Just remember Amber and Becky’s fathers.
But the thing with that (and Mike) is they had a time skip to make it so that the grieving wouldn’t last 2 months. Doing another time skip would be tacky.
Mike was also, frankly, a way less important character than Dorothy, even to the cast themselves.
I’m not specifically talking about death. Just that this comic isn’t afraid to dive into heavy themes and events.
And even if the worst happens, it’s only an assumption that there would be another time skip.
I’d title it “Dumbing of Age: Tragicque.” (or maybe “Tragique”…who knows.) As the main sequence tends mostly toward DoA: Comedique.
If I had to guess, Hank would probably be the one who gets shot. Hank already suspects Jocelyne is there, and is probably moving his butt over there right now.
… But I wouldn’t be opposed if it were Mary. I mean, she’s *there*.
As the comment section’s number one “Mary should be removed from the comic guy” I can’t really say I’m *against* Mary getting shot here. It would be very ironic, Mary would end up a world-famous symbol of resistance to a genocide she supported, her “My face is a butt” sign is interpreted as poignant metaphor, and the cast all has to go “Mary was….great….her dying makes us…..sad” through gritted teeth.
It’s be the best possible way to do a “Mary redemption arc” ^_^
Ok cool. So I’ve been wrong about Dorothy and everyone else is right 🥲
About what specifically?
I have defended her as trying very hard to do right, take care of people, and grow. I think she takes more heat for all her striving than characters who don’t give many fucks at all about growing. I hoped (for all the unwise impulsiveness) she would go in there with genuine intent to help protesters who were getting kettled or something, and that care and striving would shine through. But it seems people who said she’s making it about herself and potentially endangering self and others with no purpose were right.
Just losing hope about Dorothy’s arc potential, with everything that’s been teed up here.
I think it’s early yet to make that leap. No one has actually explained any of those problems to Dorothy in-comic yet. Jocelyne has only just now told her the protest leaders recommend evacuating, and I don’t think this conversation is over yet.
I mean, this doesn’t contradict her wanting to do right. Someone can want with all their being to do the right thing and then fuck up real bad anyway, especially if their emotions are high and there’s a solid chance they have a lot of adrenaline kicking in.
It’s really not a bad quality to give people/characters the benefit of the doubt! It does make it sting more when it’s not the case though 🥲
I kinda agree with Jocelyne. If most of the other protesters have decided to try to leave before they get arrested, it’s probably a good idea to follow their strategy.
No, because that wouldn’t get her away from Joyce and be self-destructive.
A fuck. A fuck may be what she needs. If Walky were there, he’d say to the cops “excuse me, she probably just needs a fuck. If I may…”
Um,
… BAD idea to suggest to cops…
Dorothy NO!
Dorothy: Yes!
And I am with Dorothy.
I feel like this is a logical culmination of a lot of the various bits of Dorothy’s character arc, honestly – not a conclusion, certainly, but it makes sense for this to happen with where she’s been going so far.
She’s realised that being President might not be all it was cracked up to be in her head, and that politics might not be nearly as cut and dry as she’d like – it’s not homework you can just get the best grade at and call it a day. She’s not very good at networking, or acting on any of her political causes through volunteering or campaigning – being smart and a mostly good person doesn’t solve the ground-level problems, and the things that have traumatised her the most (usually bad people happening to her friends, especially Joyce!) are things she couldn’t have stopped even if she was President. So she wants to be someone who does better, someone who can act on caring, even if it means being reckless – because needing to plan everything before acting can be antithetical to spontaneous kindness and bravery, and she’s become terrifyingly aware of that.
Meanwhile, Joyce keeps pushing her comfort zone to grow and does so from a place of boundless kindness and just a hint of selfishness, going for what she wants but being mindful of those around her. Of course Dorothy wants to model herself on that when she admires her so much, even if she doesn’t know how to apply it yet – she still wants to save the world, make a difference, but she has no idea what cause to actually commit that to! But Joyce jumps into things when she’s emotionally spurred into it, and Dorothy logically gets that the Bulmeria cause is something she’d probably care very much about if she’d actually sat down to read up on it more. And it’s a little late to do that now, of course, when the protest is just about to hit the bricks, so she’s panicking; she wants to make a change, she wants to prove she can be spontaneous in a way that matters more than karaoke, and she wants to show Joyce that she’s changing from being someone she no longer wants to be, too.
Except she’s flailing, and her feelings for Joyce are making her think even less critically about this because she’s full of hormones, and she’s set herself down a path where she kind of wants to crash and burn because she has a pile of guilt on her shoulders for never doing “enough”, so even though she also realises on some level that this is a Bad Idea™, that’s not really a deterrent to her, because either way she gets what part of her wants.
It’s definitely a big soup of mixed motivations, and I think it’s actually well written. The fact that it comes off as shallow to outsiders who only see a white girl who knows nothing about the protest showing up to grandstand against better judgment doesn’t mean we haven’t been given ample insight into her end of things, and it’s a very human mess, honestly. I’m really curious to see where this goes for her, because I suspect it could be a harsh reality check.
Wow, that was, uh, more text than anticipated. In case it wasn’t already obvious that I really like Willis’ writing, I guess.
What Dorothy really wants to be is a superhero, and luckily for her she exists in a world where that’s a semi-viable career path.
Until AG starts making money from it being a superhero is a semi-viable hobby.
You put pretty much what I thought into words. Balancing the plates of Dorothy’s mental motivations here is difficult and obviously one will take away whatever they wish, but what I take away is an appreciation for Willis’ ability to write Dorothy’s breakdown here in an understandable way.
Dorothy has had a road map for her future since she was a child, and she was in a traumatic situation (several really but for simplicity’s sake we’ll stick with the kidnapping one) that ended with PTSD for all involved, the deaths of two men, and Dorothy at the forefront as the one who helped orchestrate their escape. She did an amazing job, but she still has the trauma of such a situation to contend with. She’s given up a lot of things in her pursuit of her dream job of being President, only to realize that job isn’t going to get her where she wants to go or do what she wants to do. Dorothy is young, so her life isn’t actually over… but it sure FEELS like it is, from her point of view. Add in that her identity is changing before her very eyes, her feelings aren’t obeying her own disciplines, morals, and logic, and it’s such a messy soup for her. I love it.
Yes, this is the correct take.
Dorothy it’s maybe slightly undercutting your moral stand to admit that you’re doing it for entirely self-centered personal reasons.
Sometime after midday
On a dorm’s washing machine.
Somehow, just beyond my reach
That Someone had reached back for me
Racing like a stallion;
Clothes drying on high heat.
It’s gonna take a special girl to sweep me off my feet
I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘till the end of this fight.
And she’s got to be quick, and she’s got to be brave,
And she’s got to come stand for what’s right
I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero out in Dunn Meadow
She’s gotta be strong, and she’s got to be sure,
‘Cause she’s got to choose me over Joe.
Me over Joe.
*cue giant gingerbread man fighting police snipers*
DANG!!! So impressive!
It’s not something she needs, but what she’s probably going to get is, at best, at least one night in jail or, worse, an extended stay in a hospital or, at worst, forever in a grave.
Wait, hold on a second. Is the fence everyone’s been so worried about this whole time only on one side of the protest, and everyone’s free to leave in in any other direction? That’s incredible.
I mean, was the issue that non-students were on school property causing a disruption? Makes sense that they’d want to bar entrance but let them leave if they wanted to.
The issue was that people were protesting in support of BDS. Complaints about outside agitators have only ever been about shutting down protests without engaging with the cause of the protest.
They’re on school property now. I figured they were putting a fence around the protest and going “After 30 minutes everyone still in this fence is getting arrested” but apparently there’s just a fence on one side for Joyce and Dorothy to dramatically cross and all other sides are open.
Well, I can see fence in the background behind Dorothy. It looks smaller than it probably is due to perspective. People are walking past Dorothy presumably to get to the gate Joyce went through. So that’s two sides fenced in. I see no reason to believe they didn’t fence in the other two sides as well.
I am now less okay with Dorothy making a moral stand because she’s clearly jamming her lack of purpose and sense of self into torching who she used to be yesterday. Dorothy you can still be all of the things you were, you seriously don’t have to turn this into self immolation.
Therapy, Dorothy. Therapy is what you need. And I guess maybe a career counselor since your political ambitions appear to be gone entirely.
That’s not exactly a sea of people. I expected hundreds at least.
and finally we found her, the main character of war.
even if it’s for the worst possible reason, i’m on her side here. “the protest organisers” are invariably a bigger shitshow than dorothy currently is
…Either that or they understand the dangers and are working hard on keeping their supporters and activists safe, right now.
And even if the organizers make the wrong call, staying on your own, while the rest of the protest follows their lead and evacuates is still a worse call.
Is it, though?
As it is, Dorothy (even Dorothy alone!) has put the college and the local police in a position where they have to do something politically unfavourable to accomplish something politically unpopular. That’s the kind of moment that really does turn the tide of public opinion, unlike dispersing peacefully whenever it’s asked. If these protesters had a stone between them they wouldn’t be leaving at all, they’d have set up defensive fortifications and they’d stay there wasting the local police budget for absolutely as long as they could to make the point they’re making as loudly as possible.
When you compare this to what Hamas is doing, it isn’t the biggest ask. It’s a completely proportionate response to a genocide, even on an individual level.
If individual protesters getting arrested really turned the tide of public opinion, the world would be a very different place. It can happen, but it’s usually a lot more gradual and not about a single brave example.
As for all the protestors staying en masse, that’s a far better option than Dorothy doing so on her own, but that wasn’t the call the organizers made. In any conflict, there are times to stand and fight and times to fall back and regroup. That’s strategy, not a matter of it being a proportionate response.
In the real protest this is based on, the police managed to clear the meadow in April, but the protestors were soon back and occupied the place for months. I don’t know how closely Willis is following that or what they know of the rationale behind the organizers decisions. Maybe the first clearing helped them pull together bigger numbers for the second try. Maybe legal manueverings challenged the rules change. Maybe it was a mistake and the university would have divested if the cops had arrested a few more protestors the first time around.
Yes, it is
I would be on her side, if I thought she genuinely cared about this cause and was getting arrested for that reason. But Dorothy’s behavior so far doesn’t convince me of that. I’m inclined to think the protest organizers know better than the person who didn’t care about the protest until now and only showed up right before the police decided to end it.
You know what, if I’m getting voted down on this I’ll take it.
Oh Dorothy
To me, Dorothy is thrashing around trying to find the thing to base her sense of self and desire to be/do “right” and this protest is a Big Thing she has identified she can do. It’s not sensible or thought out but neither do I think it’s insincere or merely performative. And all the Joyce stuff complicates it more
Dorothy!!! You NEED to go back to Joyce or Walky. Take Jocelyn’s hand and let her get you back to safety!
If she gets arrested, hurt, shot, anything-ed, Joyce Is going to blame herself for it.
My worry is that Amazigirl is going to swoop in and carry Dorothy out while the sniper is just seeing the cop assault vigilante trying to cart off a struggling civilian, and one or both gets seriously hurt.
I’m seeing a theme in this comment section that I’ve encountered in other left-leaning spaces at well. People are heavily criticizing the police, the state, the university… and then they talk about how Dorothy absolutely needs to see a therapist.
You know. The therapist licensed by the state, employed – in Dorothy’s case – by the university, who is somehow supposed to be maintaining a safe, healing space untouched by politics.
The therapist whose job it is to label a person’s struggles as individual pathologies, with little to no regard to sociopolitical context. The therapist who’s been given the power to have people taken away by the cops and locked up in a state-run institution, just because the therapist says so.
Please stop talking as if therapy were not also an institution of the state. Sure, going to therapy works for some people… but so does going to college, or marriage, or y’know, calling the cops. It’s not a moral imperative, and it’s not the only reasonable choice. Depending on a person’s circumstances, it may or may not be one option to consider.
I was looking this comment for years. For years!
Thank you.
Here’s the thing. Mental health … is health. I think Dorothy “needs” to see some kind of mental health professional in the same way as Joyce “needed” to see an optometrist. She’s got a perfect right not to, just as Joyce had a perfect right to just let the world get increasingly blurry, but…
Having said that, she absolutely shouldn’t see the university therapist, who from what we’ve seen in this comic is very bad at their job. I also feel she shouldn’t see any therapist “whose job it is to label a person’s struggles as individual pathologies, with little to no regard to sociopolitical context”, since I strongly feel they are also bad at their job.
So, that is technically the description of a psychiatrist, not a therapist, but the job of a therapist is to take those pathological labels decided upon by a psychiatrist (as like, their main job) as gospel truth and proceed accordingly. And that isn’t “being bad at their job”, it’s just the description of it.
A therapist is also someone who just listens to people talk about their problems. There isn’t always a psychiatrist involved. Nor labels. I sought a therapist after my mom’s death to help me with the grieving process and together we’ve talked through a lot of the traumas and such from my life time all without her ever trying to throw any labels or diagnoses onto me. I know it’s not like that for everyone but I also think telling people that all psychology is bad isn’t very helpful. At least not without offering other solutions or assistance.
People in the comments section on here, and Americans generally, don’t seem to understand that psychologists are a part of their country’s vast and historically unparalleled carceral infrastructure — which is wild because one of the most persistent canards that the west has against the USSR is that it used psychology as a tool of political repression.
Americans are like parents who think they catch their kid sneaking around at night every single time, but they don’t catch them the times they don’t catch them, so they don’t know about those. They think their country is committing two crimes, but in reality they should be expecting to discover at least three or four crimes in a given day without going out of their way to do that.
The world they live in, where they’re lied to about maybe one or two wars in a decade, but can broadly trust everything they’re told by universities, therapists, blue politicians, and the Marvel Cinematic Universe, is a deliriously blissful fascist delusion.
But they’re so progressive for being against the one genocide they do know about.
Not to respond unhelpfully but I’ve known like three people who have committed trauma based suicide. That’s in addition to the people with severe substance issues and attempted self-medication.
Institutions we should be able to trust are always co-opted by the Right but the fact is that people not seeking help is not a solution you can go, “Well I don’t seek help because the help might be bad.”
So everyone who kills themself is an uncaptured therapy patient or what? Therapy as an institution reflects a fundamentally diseased worldview and it also makes sense that a lot of people are going to be killing themselves in a diseased country with a diseased worldview. Therapists, who are entirely a product of that same diseased worldview, are not a solution here but part of the problem, and that problem is NOT that they are “co-opted by the right”.
Like, I also am not trying to be rude or unhelpful here but I think your claim that you have known “like three people who have committed trauma based suicide” is 1. an armchair diagnosis by you and 2. not very strong logical support for psychotherapy even if taken at face value.
I feel like the trauma based suicide is right in the name? That the people Charles knew who attempted, attempted due to trauma that they have suffered. It’s not exactly armchair diagnosis to say, for example, that someone who just went through a significant death of a loved one attempted due to the trauma from such a loss. There are probably many things that helped snowball such a thing but clearly the trauma was a big factor.
I mean, I feel like you only need to meet so many people who self-diagnose with trauma-based homosexuality to understand at least one of many many reasons why this would be wrong even if all like three of those people left suicide notes saying explicitly “this is because of a particular trauma and for no other reason”.
right but like
what if we didn’t make the least charitable possible assumptions about the vulnerable personal stories other people are telling us
just for a change of pace
But that would require Bruno to not be an giant weirdo snd asshole.
There’s no reasoning with them. They’ve made it very clear they hate the USA and wish we’d all die by whatever means necessary.
This person responded to me with a personal anecdote meant to be used as evidence in a disagreement, in direct response to my post. Am I supposed to allow it to shut me down? Because my dead friend saw a lot of therapists, so now what? If you don’t want to hear what I have to say about something maybe don’t use it as evidence in a disagreement with me?
Yes, Taffy, you got me. I’m here to kill you all using my ultimate weapon: the Dumbing of Age comment section.
Can you de-escalate, like, a little? Thanks.
Go bake a fucking loaf.
https://jessiebakestreats.com/pretzel-buns/
Thanks, Li.
I just fired my therapist, because I felt he wasn’t respecting the boundaries I needed to set for my safety. But I did immediately go out and get another one. I am SO fortunate to have insurance that covers it and lets me choose the counselor that works best for me. True, some are ignorant jerks. But they do help me, too.
For example, being in therapy helps me to get work excuse notes and meds.
…And for what it’s worth, my psych meds are what is keeping me alive, presently.
So — some people have absolutely terrible experiences, and some draw benefit, and some get a mixed bag.
Funny enough, my closest friend, who is currently serving a life sentence in prison and spent about 6 months straight in solitary confinement — even though he was literally convicted and sentenced in large part because of his own voluntary statements to the therapists in juvenile detention — he still kept asking to see a therapist, and was very deprived when no prisoners mental health services were available.
So the experiences can be mixed.
…Sorry for the TMI!
I don’t know about mixed here. You’re describing people forced into unhealthy dependence by a lack of other options. If I were arrested for meth use and I kept asking for meth while in prison nobody would say I had a “mixed experience” with meth.
Your society is paving over the fact that it doesn’t have anything to offer with an individualised free market solution.
In a healthy society, you can call work and say “I’m not coming in today.” You can go to the pharmacy and say “I would like medications please.” Psychologists don’t provide those things any moreso than landlords provide housing. They gatekeep them from you and make bank off it.
Oh, that’s /my/ society. How fun. Yeah… *SMDH*… Have fun with that.
He wasn’t arrested for talking with therapists. He was arrested for committing a heinous crime. Which he might have been able to avoid, had he had earlier access to therapy, /before/ being arrested for a heinous crime and going to juvie, where he made self-incriminating statements to the therapists on staff.
True, some therapists do work for the carceral state. Literally. As in, counselors employed by prisons. And some therapists, outside of the prison walls, can help folks wrap their heads around their problems /before/ they wind up committing desperate acts that wind up /getting/ them incarcerated.
And /some/ therapists, on the inside of the prison walls actually can help folks to deal with the torture of incarceration, and get their heads together.
So that’s why I say it’s a mixed bag. Just like there are good and bad teachers. Good and bad cooks. Good and bad doctors. Just because not everyone in the profession is helpful doesn’t mean that /none/ of them are.
As expressed below, I wish only the best for you with your journey, Laura. As mentioned below, I have friends and family who also require psych meds to help them be functional. I agree wholeheartedly with you that the results and experiences can be mixed. I’m mainly making this comment to extend my support because of Bruno’s responses.
@Laura: adding support and well-wishes and internet hugs if internet hugs are okay with you and would be nice. I’m glad you’re still here, from your comments around these parts you seem lovely.
@Bruno: I genuinely think you’re confusing “people whose lived experiences are different from mine, chiming in to add their own experiences with therapy/psychology/psychiatry to a discussion I didn’t start” with… I’m not sure, some sort of formalized debate? Where there are winners and losers and it’s very important to “defeat” your “opponent”? Much more important to “defeat” them than to actually listen to them or respond with compassion.
Which is fine, but it’s not how other people are responding to you, so. Something to keep in mind, that not every personal anecdote is necessarily attack on your position.
Thank you, Li and Doopyboop. I am grateful for your kind words.
🩹🫖🫂
I appreciate you. Thank you for being so supportive.
Well let tell you then, you ARE being very unhelpful and rude.
As a neuroatypical person, it takes something quite notable to get me to like therapists. I have MANY bad experiences with them. However, they helped my wife a great deal given her own experiences that it is not my place to talk about specifics.
I was referring to Bruni, just t9 make that clear, i don’t know if you thought o was talking to y9u but i wasn’t. You were perfectly fine.
I think Charles just clicked on the wrong reply, it’s happened to me plenty of times orz. Especially once a thread gets long and you can’t directly reply to the comment you want to.
Okay, the basic idea of “sometimes if you’re struggling with something it can really help to talk to someone who’s good at helping people sort their brains out” is not a product of a diseased worldview. Nor is “some mental illnesses have coping techniques that can help deal with them (i.e. how to manage violent intrusive thoughts when someone has OCD)”, or the entire concept of using things like EMDR to help process traumatic memories. Therapy-as-the-institution-stands-today has a lot of problems, but the basic idea of therapy is fine. Like how medicine is full of all sorts of misconception and bigotry, but that doesn’t mean that doctors are bad.
People on here, and Americans generally, look at therapy as a go-to solution in all cases though. If you were to tell me “EMDR has medical uses and is best administered by a professional”, I’d say “yeah, probably”. What I actually hear overwhelmingly, though, is that there is a specialised class of trained confessors who spent years studying Freudian-Jungian psychoanalytic theory that should be deferred to in all times of crisis or indecision, and that this is the basket that practically all eggs should be shoveled into. Meanwhile everyone who actually goes to those chumps is such a weenie they get upset at my mild social criticisms in the Dumbing of Age comments section, even though there is an actual character in the comic (Sal) who basically shares my opinion on the topic, thus inviting the exact criticisms I’m making.
The entire concept of psychiatry is not in fact centered around controlling people. My friend who’s doing EMDR sessions to help process some traumatic memories is not somehow being manipulated into being a more compliant member of the general public by the therapist helping her process said memories and work through the fact that a lot of how she’s been treated was absolutely not okay. Nor are the techniques she’s learning to deal with her OCD anything to do with social control. Nor, for that matter, is the therapist I see to deal with some health/medical-related trauma making /me/ easier to control by doing what more or less amounts to guided meditation and breathing exercises.
Look- you know how there are a lot of really shitty doctors out there? How the whole medical industry has been involved in and used for a lot of terrible things? And y’know how we don’t chuck the entire concept of doctors out the window anyway, because being used for fucked-up things isn’t actually an inherent part of medicine? Same thing applies to therapy.
You’re making a lot of excuses for people who can order your girlfriend incarcerated and forcibly medicated if she cracks a suicide joke in front of them.
Disregard Bruno, he’s not interested in actually discussing this matter without insulting people. For a guy who’s all about society, he sure does hate extending kindness to the people in that society. I for one wish only the best for you and your friend. I see a therapist, and I have friends and family with certain diagnoses that require medication for them to be functional and happy (schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, anxiety, psychosis-related symptoms).
At the same time, Dorothy is not acting rationally here. She is potentially acting out some heavy suicidal ideation imposed by both her trauma and her guilt for her attraction to Joyce while both of them are in relationships.
Like, sure, there are valid criticisms of therapy as a tool of political repression. But the problem isn’t Dorothy being politically active, the problem is Dorothy is making this about herself. The problem is Dorothy not listening to leaders who advised all the protesters to stand down because there’s too much risk involved with very little possible reward. There’s also the fact that Dorothy is unintentionally being a white savior here.
Don’t worry there are also folks who are extremely anti-therapy here. It’s just not the current topic.
Also, let’s be real for a moment, a huge percent of people who say “Fictional Character X needs therapy” are using it as a shorthand for “this character needs to do some sort of psychological work”, and not necessarily in a formal setting, or with the idea that any specific type of therapy would automatically fix them.
“Dorothy needs therapy” or “Dorothy should go to therapy” are such short statements. Sometimes, sure, they’ll come from someone who doesn’t know anything about therapy; sometimes they’ll come from someone who’s had only good experiences with therapy; sometimes they’ll come from someone who’s had mixed experiences but didn’t want to get into that with strangers; sometimes they’ll come from someone who’s actually had very negative experiences with therapy but still uses the cultural shorthand, the same way atheists sometimes still say “thank god” from reflex…. sometimes it’ll even be meant sarcastically.
I think it is reading a lot into those few words to assume they’re being said with a belief in the unquestionable authority of the state.
Yeah, there’s kind of an implied “this character really needs to talk to some kind of expert, but to an expert who’s actually good at their job” in that. It doesn’t mean “this character needs to talk to literally any therapist and there are never therapists who suck at their jobs”.
Well, there’s a difference between “this person would really benefit from some sort of expert in mental health who can help them get their brain stuff sorted out”, and “this person will definitely benefit from therapy-as-it-exists-currently”.
You need a pole for that sign. Holding it up like that gets very tiring very quickly.
Don’t worry, she probably won’t be holding it for long…
Jocelyne, just leave Dorothy behind!
It sounds cruel, but you have more to loose than her!
*lose
“You don’t know what I need.”
Dorothy, I’m pretty sure that makes two of us.
Pretty sure it makes two of them, as well.
Alternately:
*photoshops a boombox into Dorothy’s hands instead of the sign*
I’m glad Dorothy is the kind of person who would have phone numbers memorized. My worst fear is going to jail and forgetting people’s numbers so no one knows where I am.
New worst feat just dropped!
(I have one phone number memorised, and it belongs to someone who has as much phone anxiety as I do.)
Traditionally, at a protest you’re given the number to a dedicated jail support hotline, and you mark that number on your body in sharpie and call it if you get arrested.
Dorothy *did not* do that.
The police don’t actually have any obligation to let you make a phone call, that’s a pop cultural myth. What they are supposed to let you do is contact a lawyer. So knowing the phone numbers of friends and family members doesn’t actually help.
Hey, I’ve been arrested at protests and called that number.
I thought you weren’t American? I was talking about American police, which is the institution that would be arresting Dorothy. They do still sometimes let you make calls anyway but there’s no legal obligation.
So is Dorothy just blatantly risking Amber’s life at this point? I feel like she must know that AmaziGirl wouldn’t remain there so long as she feels like there’s students to protect…
Did Dorothy even see that AG was there?
I don’t think anyone is risking amber’s life except amber and amazigirl
Maybe the cops trying to subdue her/them.
hopefully they only risk their own health
Being arrested for your beliefs is the most sincere way to express them.
Dotty entering the Bernie phase of her life.
Maybe.
But it’s not always useful.
Not really, given that someone can get arrested for a belief they’re only pretending to have.
Is Dorothy getting arrested for her beliefs? Because she didn’t seem to care much about this cause before she went to the protest, and I’m not convinced she does now.
It’s possible the belief she’s being arrested for is the belief that the school should not change it’s rules at the last minute and call in the police to assault its students. This is a perfectly valid belief to stand up for.
It’s a perfectly valid belief, but it’s not what the protest is about.
Though police violence tends to turn protests about other things into protests about police violence and the right to protest, which is important in and of itself, but it’s not clear how much it helps the original cause.
I’m not arguing that she’s helping the cause or even trying to. I’m just saying that might be the belief she’s getting arrested for which would count as being arrested for her beliefs.
She made a monologue about it, like, 4 strips ago. The fact she was holding hands with her crush while doing it doesn’t mean she is full of shit.
She’s not getting arrested or shot. We would have to spend months on the aftermath of the protest. But she is having a very public breakdown. She needs a therapist but will end up with Joss talking her down. She has great gaydar.
Eh, I could see there being an arrest which ties her up for the next day or two (while we focus on others in the cast) and then then the DA decides not to press charges against the arrested protestors.
And PROBABLY not shot, though a graze might be on the table.
*or shot with a tazer, or rock salt, or rubber bullets, or a beanbag, or…
you bring up a good point but tbh I almost don’t trust the evacuation order. just based on uhhhh how other similar protests have gone. I’m betting the fence is up on several or all sides and folks may not be able to just disperse freely. not trying to be cynical either just semi-realistic. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the people trying to genuinely evacuate get kettled like Joyce almost did.
dangit did I not reply to the comment I meant to or is my browser being weird
That happens sometimes round these parts.
She’s nuking her future life prospects on purpose. She’s making it impossible for her to get a career in politics at this rate, she wants an arrest record to self-destruct her future so she doesn’t have to grapple with it.
Well, she thinks she’s making it impossible. I’m not so sure that’s how things actually work.
Actually, on the left, I’m not sure that an arrest for non-violent protest activity is a career-killer.
Maybe she’s just doing a dumbing on purpose, because all her smart approaches (like trying to get into offices) have gone so very wrong and she wants something direct that she doesn’t have to think through.
As long as she manages to avoid a felony she’s probably fine. As far as I know there many instances of being arrested at a peaceful protests being easy enough to walk down to misdemeanors. But then again Indiana is not exactly known for its friendliness to those exercising their first amendment rights. Even if there are many orgs that would go to bat for Dorothy on principle. Also this was written before the felon entered the house so at least in the Dummyverse or w/e you wanna call it, ‘things are fascist but not 2025 fascist’
Personally, I think what Dorothy needs is like a week or three of just doing her most basic obligations and then zoinkin’ out with Meredith and Carla for the rest of the day, maybe taking some time to review what she’s done so far and what else might interest her if this current path ain’t workin’. She’s a freshman, after all. Got a lot of time in front of her, and she can afford a little bit of reflection and relaxation. Even just spending a week screwing Walky senseless while he gets increasingly confused and dehydrated.
I agree but it’s missing at least three reps of staring at Amazigirls hopefully unarrested assets.
AG doing squats at a deliberate 45° angle for Dorothy’s benefit, because Amazi-Girl is prepared for anything, including gay ogling. Not every time, but Dorothy can watch occasionally.
Is there a reason why we are all assuming Dorothy doesn’t know much about the history and events that this protest is about? I’ve seen a number of commenters making that point but it seems unlikely that someone with her (previous) aspirations and academic focus wouldn’t know a fair bit. I assumed her staying away from the protest until these events prompted it was her historical inclination away from things that might reflect badly on presidential runs (being arrested) plus perhaps a mostly subconscious need to not think too hard about certain harsh realities.
It also seems an uncharitable read to suggest this is just about Dorothy having big feelings about having big feelings for Joyce and choosing an immediate outlet. It’s pretty clearly a direct line from the narrative about Dorothy finally confronting the fantasy version of her future (and how it relates to the U.S state). Not to say she’s not making an emotionally driven decision that doesn’t consider the collective in how she’s expressing it, in part because of her relationship with Joyce.
If I knew how to post the Larry David .gif, I would.
don’t worry homie i got ya covered
well, i am worried about Dotty tho, that much is certain
she’s having a mid-life crisis at age 18 in the middle of what might as well be an artillery range
i mean i get it but i wonder how many ppl would stay despite the tear gas (but y’know sniper aside you’d think ppl would alread ybe wearing cloth masks and gas masks)