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More like they believe they are trash and doomed themselves. Linkara: “people that think they deserve punishment don’t want to get rid of that punishment… Oh I made myself sad.”
That’s a weird case. I think it functions as a superlative as well as roots the root word firmly in neutral territory. So “phat” means “fatter than fat but no judgement”.
I’m going to lay money on Billie, but only because she feels like she has accepted that not only is change possible, but something to pursue. I expect her to fall off the wagon, and it’s hard to see her succeeding long-term… But long-term will be in a century anyways.
Whereas Amber doesn’t have any hope for herself. She knows she needs to, but she doesn’t really have the tools or help to move forward. So she’ll make progress in inches, but it’s hard to see her ever getting to a point where we’d say she has succeeded.
So to sum up, Billie is going to swing wildly and we’ll be able to call that she’s succeeded and then she’ll fall off the wagon again inevitably after that.
I was going to agree with you, but with Amber already moving on to a… Healthier hobby, and having conversations with someone who has experienced the good that therapy can do she really is on the path to success.
As you said, Billie has already made self improvement a goal, buuuut she was supposed to give up alcohol a long while ago. Maybe I misread it and she never intended to give it up, but I always felt like she tried but eventually rationalized it to her self that she didn’t need to. Hopefully this time it will stick, but she has been showing some signs of deep rooted addiction, and so far her effort of changing for the better is “If I get super drunk now, I won’t want to get super drunk later!” My two cents? Not a strong plan.
As far as I can tell Billie never tried. The only time she even talked about it that I recall was way back before the Sexy Lesbian Suicide Pact, when she made a deal with Ruth for both of them to stop. It’s not clear that she actually did then, even briefly.
There was a three day time skip. Ruth showed withdrawal signs. Billie didn’t. We saw Billie drinking at the end of that day.
Billie is still an alcoholic, yes.
She’s done many good things as well. None of the main characters here are shitstains.
(Alright, maybe Mike – though even he’s shown a few glimmers in the last storyline.)
Uhh, where or when has Billie accepted that change is something to pursue? Last I saw she was still trying to be “cool” for her new housemates, and also completely drunk. I don’t think she’s ever seriously tried to address her issues (or even admit that there are issues) at all.
I think Amber is currently in a better spot, improvement-wise, although I think her stuff is harder to overcome than Billie’s and may thus indeed take long and be met with many setbacks.
She said a couple strips back that this was a last binge before going dry. We’ll see if she can hold to that or if she even really tries, but it’s more than we’ve seen from her before.
I suspect she has no idea how hard it’s going to be, since she’s never made the effort before. She’s likely to fail, but that may lead her to accept that it is a problem.
That once and there was little indication that it was anything other than a ploy to get Ruth to stop drinking. This time, it sounds like she actually realizes she needs to do it.
Ugh I hate this, stop being unnecessarily dramatic and make out.
Amber and Walky like each other and want to be together, but Walky is denying what would make him happy because he thinks that’s what he’s supposed to do.
Until recently, Walky did not empathize with Sal very much. In a way, he did not really care about her.
I think he’s more acting the way he thinks he should act, than acting according to his own feels.
Possible character development arc: He finally talks to Sal, who says, “Yeah, two weeks ago I would have said the opposite, but go ahead and date her if you want, I’m good with her now.”
And then he goes back to Amber and says, “I guess I can date you after all” and she says “No, it’s too late” and finally he learns something about not putting off important grown-up conversations.
I’m not saying this is likely in-story, but I feel like it’s consistent with the characters – which indicates Walky is not actually uncomfortable dating Amber because of what she did, but rather because of what he thinks Sal would do/say/feel about him dating Amber.
I think, based on my own reading of how their last chat went, the fact Amber hurt his sister really DOES bother Walky in and of itself. It might not after he talks to Sal, sure, but I do think it’s bothering him by itself.
Whether or not your sibling has buried the hatchet with someone who seriously harmed them feels like it should be largely a moot point insofar as how you feel about dating that person. I can’t imagine any context in which I would even be able to be friends with someone who stabbed one of my sisters but then again I actually love them.
A) Holding a grudge and not being comfortable dating/befriending the person in question are not actually the same thing. “I don’t want to be romantically involved with the person that stabbed my sister” is not “I will hate them forever.” Either you’re intentionally misrepresenting my words or your reading comprehension needs work.
B) I think Sal should “hold a grudge” and the reason she doesn’t is gross forgiveness tropes that put the burden on people in minority groups to be unfairly accommodating of mistreatment by people in majority groups so yes, I’m not keen on Walky also absolving her of her pretty fucking awful treatment of Sal.
C) “Holding a grudge” is just loaded wording to try to portray not forgiving someone as unreasonable and I kind of hate it.
Your statement sounded stronger than “I don’t want to be romantically involved with”, but maybe I was misreading it.
I do suspect that much of your reaction comes from your B. You don’t think Sal should befriend Amber, so you think Walky shouldn’t and you wouldn’t even if she does. Because you think she’s wrong.
Fair enough.
In a real situation, I’d prefer to defer to the actual injured person – unless I think there’s ongoing abuse or some other reason to doubt the actual “burying of the hatchet” is genuine.
Next time try reading the actual words I am saying instead of applying your own assumptions as to my meaning based off of I don’t even know what criteria. At no point did I espouse the opinion you ascribed to me.
I think wanting to date someone who assaulted and crippled one of your loved ones is fucking bizarre. It makes no sense to me emotionally. It’s not even a moral issue it’s a “I can’t even comprehend the headspace you’re in to even feel that way” issue. I could understand eventually forgiving them but viewing them as a viable romantic interest? Nah, that’s kinda fucked.
Not to beat on a dead horse, but I can understand Emily’s frustration and I don’t think this is an entirely fair reaction to it. Was it a particularly nice response? No, I wouldn’t say that.
But Emily’s original point was.. pretty clear, and it is one that she has made repeatedly over months now. And the reply to that had some pretty loaded wording and almost willfully seems to misinterpret the message being said. Somehow “I can’t imagine any context in which I would even be able to be friends with someone who stabbed one of my sisters” turned into ” it’s morally necessary to continue to hold a grudge when the person directly affected doesn’t” and that is two completely different arguments. That is interpreting and implying completely different meanings and readings of someone’s character, and it’s not fair at all. And this is not the first time @thejeff has done this in his comments to Emily, especially when it comes to Amber/Amazi-Girl.
And this? “Okay. Someday I’ll learn my lesson and stop responding.” is guilt-trippy, dude.
I’m not trying to start a fight but rather point something out, for future communication purposes. Because it really feels like with Emily’s comments especially, people go out of their way to misinterpret them or infer something that she didn’t say or exaggerate to an extreme and that’s not fair as a conversational partner. And every single time, it’s always deflected away as Emily being brusque and rude, so it’s justified.
We all could be better with regards to internet etiquette and trying to avoid argument fallacies and intellectually disingenuous arguments and instead actually trying to engage with each other in a sincere, kinder way.
And yet you have no problem with Emily getting a dig in when he apologized? I tried to be kind for a long time, and Emily keeps being mean, and I guess I’m just kinda done.
I didn’t say I was okay with it. But in regards to the apology, saying “maybe I was misreading it” is a deflection. He did misread it, incredibly. There is a huge difference between what Emily said and what thejeff inferred from it, and like I said before, this is not the first time this has happened. It’s intellectually disingenuous to pretend that was a sincere attempt at conversation and not trying to push Emily into a corner. And maybe it is just poor phrasing, but it happens often. And it’s not just Emily this has happened to, thejeff has done this to me before too. So, I completely understand the frustration. That doesn’t make it okay, but I understand it. And personally, I feel like wildly misinterpreting someone’s argument isn’t kind either, especially with using loaded phrasing like that.
It’s okay if you’re done. You have every right to be. And I don’t mean to be lecturing you. If Emily’s not going to change her behavior, the simplest solution is to just simply stop engaging, if you can’t find yourself able to be impartial or kind.
Huh. I read it as sincere, but I guess I’ve only been back a few days.
Tbh, if there was a block button I would have used it long before getting to BEC levels of frustration. As it is, I’ll probably have to go back to not reading any comments so I don’t have to see Emily and the other mean comments.
Also, like… If Emily can’t be kind, maybe *she* should stop engaging too. As it is she seems to get a free pass here and that’s one of the things that’s driving me nuts.
Why should forgiveness of another person invalidate my own feelings? Am I not allowed to feel the way I feel because others don’t?
My mother (mostly) forgave her parents for a childhood that makes Ambers look nice and friendly in comparison. I haven’t. And I don’t see a reason why I should. In my opinion, brutally beating your own child is beyond forgiveness. Twice so if they beat my mother.
Yeah also this. Like people seemed to be a-okay with this concept when it was Amber maintaining her grudge after Ethan forgave Sal but Walky not wanting to date Amber because she stabbed Sal? Unreasonable, apparently.
As for Ethan/Sal, while Ethan was the only directly threatened, Amber was traumatized by it herself.
But I read, possibly incorrectly, the argument to be equivalent to “Sal hurt Ethan, so Amber shouldn’t forgive her, even if Ethan does”. (Amber hurt Sal, so Walky shouldn’t forgive her, even if Sal does.)
It doesn’t even have to be a matter of choice; sometimes feelings are just gonna do what they want, and so you’re no longer comfortable around the person even if you wish you were.
It doesn’t even have to be a matter of choice; sometimes feelings are just gonna do what they want, and so you’re having feelings for the person who stabbed your sister even if you wish you weren’t.
Walky feels guilty about his sister in a LOT of ways. And Amber’s connection to Sal has basically let that guilt spread over. I don’t think he can feel happy with Amber anymore; not until Sal actively pushes them together.
It’s okay, it opens up the way for something bizarre to happen between Sal, Danny and Amber that they’ll all laugh about later on to their children when discussing their own ‘wild and crazy college days’.
Just noticed the change in the background between panels 1 and 2. Walky has been up on Garbage Roof from early evening until full night. I wonder if he’s going to tell anyone what he was thinking about?
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just frickin’ bone on Garbage Roof already, you’re both trash
More like they believe they are trash and doomed themselves. Linkara: “people that think they deserve punishment don’t want to get rid of that punishment… Oh I made myself sad.”
I’ve drawn that before.
I mean, there’s very few ways to say what you meant without stepping in it Walky.
You did not find one of them.
Can’t they just pretend that airplanes in the night sky are shooting stars?
They could really use a wish right now.
As long as stars don’t turn your wishes around on you, like genies.
I think last panel Walky is trying to dig himself sideways to China.
Ahh, exactly as smooth as we should expect Walky to be.
There was no safe way to say it, Walky.
. . Right so I think at this point we can almost officially say that these two are broken up.
You underestimate the addictive appeal of bittersweet.
The ship’s got holes in it and it’s leaking but it could still be patched up, maybe.
Yes, he did.
Stroke! And Rubbish You The Right Way…
I misremembered. It’s been about 25 years!
Are they going to “not happen” (Walky’s words) without actually talking about their situation?
(Yeah, bit of a rhetorical question on this page.)
“Did . . . did you just pat the roof?”
“This baby can fit so much garbage on it.”
ARE YOU CALLING ME FAT
I think the term they use now is Thicc.
“Thicc” is positively connotated, though. “Fat” is somewhere between neutral to negative.
What if I use it with a “P-h”
That’s a weird case. I think it functions as a superlative as well as roots the root word firmly in neutral territory. So “phat” means “fatter than fat but no judgement”.
I keep trying to heart comments here but it’s not working ;P
*Slaps roof of roof*
Yeah this was about a well as I expected from Walky.
I could use a garbage roof tonight, personally.
Appropriate gesture of support.
Walky, you idiot! TALK TO SAL!
Ouch. That… ow.
Yeah. “Proactively giving up items with shared memories to the other person” is pretty far into death of emotional connection.
Yeah this fucking hurts, Garbage ship was so young.
You know what I’ve been thinking and I got a net for you all. “Amber vs Billie: who can clean up their act faster.”
I’m serious, both have some serious soul-searching to do and to be better in certain aspects. The question is who can do it first.
That’s an interesting bet. I’m… really not sure.
I’m going to lay money on Billie, but only because she feels like she has accepted that not only is change possible, but something to pursue. I expect her to fall off the wagon, and it’s hard to see her succeeding long-term… But long-term will be in a century anyways.
Whereas Amber doesn’t have any hope for herself. She knows she needs to, but she doesn’t really have the tools or help to move forward. So she’ll make progress in inches, but it’s hard to see her ever getting to a point where we’d say she has succeeded.
So to sum up, Billie is going to swing wildly and we’ll be able to call that she’s succeeded and then she’ll fall off the wagon again inevitably after that.
I was going to agree with you, but with Amber already moving on to a… Healthier hobby, and having conversations with someone who has experienced the good that therapy can do she really is on the path to success.
As you said, Billie has already made self improvement a goal, buuuut she was supposed to give up alcohol a long while ago. Maybe I misread it and she never intended to give it up, but I always felt like she tried but eventually rationalized it to her self that she didn’t need to. Hopefully this time it will stick, but she has been showing some signs of deep rooted addiction, and so far her effort of changing for the better is “If I get super drunk now, I won’t want to get super drunk later!” My two cents? Not a strong plan.
As far as I can tell Billie never tried. The only time she even talked about it that I recall was way back before the Sexy Lesbian Suicide Pact, when she made a deal with Ruth for both of them to stop. It’s not clear that she actually did then, even briefly.
There was a three day time skip. Ruth showed withdrawal signs. Billie didn’t. We saw Billie drinking at the end of that day.
Billie is the same shitstain she was on move-in day.
Billie is still an alcoholic, yes.
She’s done many good things as well. None of the main characters here are shitstains.
(Alright, maybe Mike – though even he’s shown a few glimmers in the last storyline.)
Uhh, where or when has Billie accepted that change is something to pursue? Last I saw she was still trying to be “cool” for her new housemates, and also completely drunk. I don’t think she’s ever seriously tried to address her issues (or even admit that there are issues) at all.
I think Amber is currently in a better spot, improvement-wise, although I think her stuff is harder to overcome than Billie’s and may thus indeed take long and be met with many setbacks.
She said a couple strips back that this was a last binge before going dry. We’ll see if she can hold to that or if she even really tries, but it’s more than we’ve seen from her before.
I suspect she has no idea how hard it’s going to be, since she’s never made the effort before. She’s likely to fail, but that may lead her to accept that it is a problem.
Yes, but she’d *previously* sworn to stop drinking, too.
That once and there was little indication that it was anything other than a ploy to get Ruth to stop drinking. This time, it sounds like she actually realizes she needs to do it.
My money’s on Amber. I think she’s got a better network at this point.
Did the sky suddenly get cloudy once Amber got on the roof?
Good observation!
When there are grey skies,
I don’t mind the grey skies,
You make them blue, Garbage Roof.
Ugh I hate this, stop being unnecessarily dramatic and make out.
Amber and Walky like each other and want to be together, but Walky is denying what would make him happy because he thinks that’s what he’s supposed to do.
Yeah, why on Earth would Walky be uncomfortable dating someone who stabbed his sister, even if she does make him happy?
He underestimates the power of garbage roof.
Until recently, Walky did not empathize with Sal very much. In a way, he did not really care about her.
I think he’s more acting the way he thinks he should act, than acting according to his own feels.
Possible character development arc: He finally talks to Sal, who says, “Yeah, two weeks ago I would have said the opposite, but go ahead and date her if you want, I’m good with her now.”
And then he goes back to Amber and says, “I guess I can date you after all” and she says “No, it’s too late” and finally he learns something about not putting off important grown-up conversations.
I’m not saying this is likely in-story, but I feel like it’s consistent with the characters – which indicates Walky is not actually uncomfortable dating Amber because of what she did, but rather because of what he thinks Sal would do/say/feel about him dating Amber.
I think, based on my own reading of how their last chat went, the fact Amber hurt his sister really DOES bother Walky in and of itself. It might not after he talks to Sal, sure, but I do think it’s bothering him by itself.
Of course, if he breaks up with Amber, he can justify putting off that awkward conversation with Sal.
Whether or not your sibling has buried the hatchet with someone who seriously harmed them feels like it should be largely a moot point insofar as how you feel about dating that person. I can’t imagine any context in which I would even be able to be friends with someone who stabbed one of my sisters but then again I actually love them.
So you think it’s morally necessary to continue to hold a grudge when the person directly affected doesn’t?
A) Holding a grudge and not being comfortable dating/befriending the person in question are not actually the same thing. “I don’t want to be romantically involved with the person that stabbed my sister” is not “I will hate them forever.” Either you’re intentionally misrepresenting my words or your reading comprehension needs work.
B) I think Sal should “hold a grudge” and the reason she doesn’t is gross forgiveness tropes that put the burden on people in minority groups to be unfairly accommodating of mistreatment by people in majority groups so yes, I’m not keen on Walky also absolving her of her pretty fucking awful treatment of Sal.
C) “Holding a grudge” is just loaded wording to try to portray not forgiving someone as unreasonable and I kind of hate it.
Sorry for the phrasing.
Your statement sounded stronger than “I don’t want to be romantically involved with”, but maybe I was misreading it.
I do suspect that much of your reaction comes from your B. You don’t think Sal should befriend Amber, so you think Walky shouldn’t and you wouldn’t even if she does. Because you think she’s wrong.
Fair enough.
In a real situation, I’d prefer to defer to the actual injured person – unless I think there’s ongoing abuse or some other reason to doubt the actual “burying of the hatchet” is genuine.
Next time try reading the actual words I am saying instead of applying your own assumptions as to my meaning based off of I don’t even know what criteria. At no point did I espouse the opinion you ascribed to me.
I think wanting to date someone who assaulted and crippled one of your loved ones is fucking bizarre. It makes no sense to me emotionally. It’s not even a moral issue it’s a “I can’t even comprehend the headspace you’re in to even feel that way” issue. I could understand eventually forgiving them but viewing them as a viable romantic interest? Nah, that’s kinda fucked.
Wow. It’s not that hard of a misinterpretation to make. This is just part of communication on the internet, no need to be mean about it. :/
Okay.
Someday I’ll learn my lesson and stop responding.
Mmm.
Not to beat on a dead horse, but I can understand Emily’s frustration and I don’t think this is an entirely fair reaction to it. Was it a particularly nice response? No, I wouldn’t say that.
But Emily’s original point was.. pretty clear, and it is one that she has made repeatedly over months now. And the reply to that had some pretty loaded wording and almost willfully seems to misinterpret the message being said. Somehow “I can’t imagine any context in which I would even be able to be friends with someone who stabbed one of my sisters” turned into ” it’s morally necessary to continue to hold a grudge when the person directly affected doesn’t” and that is two completely different arguments. That is interpreting and implying completely different meanings and readings of someone’s character, and it’s not fair at all. And this is not the first time @thejeff has done this in his comments to Emily, especially when it comes to Amber/Amazi-Girl.
And this? “Okay. Someday I’ll learn my lesson and stop responding.” is guilt-trippy, dude.
I’m not trying to start a fight but rather point something out, for future communication purposes. Because it really feels like with Emily’s comments especially, people go out of their way to misinterpret them or infer something that she didn’t say or exaggerate to an extreme and that’s not fair as a conversational partner. And every single time, it’s always deflected away as Emily being brusque and rude, so it’s justified.
We all could be better with regards to internet etiquette and trying to avoid argument fallacies and intellectually disingenuous arguments and instead actually trying to engage with each other in a sincere, kinder way.
And yet you have no problem with Emily getting a dig in when he apologized? I tried to be kind for a long time, and Emily keeps being mean, and I guess I’m just kinda done.
I didn’t say I was okay with it. But in regards to the apology, saying “maybe I was misreading it” is a deflection. He did misread it, incredibly. There is a huge difference between what Emily said and what thejeff inferred from it, and like I said before, this is not the first time this has happened. It’s intellectually disingenuous to pretend that was a sincere attempt at conversation and not trying to push Emily into a corner. And maybe it is just poor phrasing, but it happens often. And it’s not just Emily this has happened to, thejeff has done this to me before too. So, I completely understand the frustration. That doesn’t make it okay, but I understand it. And personally, I feel like wildly misinterpreting someone’s argument isn’t kind either, especially with using loaded phrasing like that.
It’s okay if you’re done. You have every right to be. And I don’t mean to be lecturing you. If Emily’s not going to change her behavior, the simplest solution is to just simply stop engaging, if you can’t find yourself able to be impartial or kind.
Huh. I read it as sincere, but I guess I’ve only been back a few days.
Tbh, if there was a block button I would have used it long before getting to BEC levels of frustration. As it is, I’ll probably have to go back to not reading any comments so I don’t have to see Emily and the other mean comments.
Also, like… If Emily can’t be kind, maybe *she* should stop engaging too. As it is she seems to get a free pass here and that’s one of the things that’s driving me nuts.
Why should forgiveness of another person invalidate my own feelings? Am I not allowed to feel the way I feel because others don’t?
My mother (mostly) forgave her parents for a childhood that makes Ambers look nice and friendly in comparison. I haven’t. And I don’t see a reason why I should. In my opinion, brutally beating your own child is beyond forgiveness. Twice so if they beat my mother.
Yeah also this. Like people seemed to be a-okay with this concept when it was Amber maintaining her grudge after Ethan forgave Sal but Walky not wanting to date Amber because she stabbed Sal? Unreasonable, apparently.
Not sure who “people” is in this context, but I mostly remember the discussion concluding that amber was wrong to be mad at Ethan for talking to sal.
Not what I said.
No, of course not.
But you’re not obligated to stay hostile either. Which was the impression I was getting.
As for Ethan/Sal, while Ethan was the only directly threatened, Amber was traumatized by it herself.
But I read, possibly incorrectly, the argument to be equivalent to “Sal hurt Ethan, so Amber shouldn’t forgive her, even if Ethan does”. (Amber hurt Sal, so Walky shouldn’t forgive her, even if Sal does.)
It doesn’t even have to be a matter of choice; sometimes feelings are just gonna do what they want, and so you’re no longer comfortable around the person even if you wish you were.
It doesn’t even have to be a matter of choice; sometimes feelings are just gonna do what they want, and so you’re having feelings for the person who stabbed your sister even if you wish you weren’t.
It’s more complicated than that, IMO.
Walky feels guilty about his sister in a LOT of ways. And Amber’s connection to Sal has basically let that guilt spread over. I don’t think he can feel happy with Amber anymore; not until Sal actively pushes them together.
Even if Sal’s okay with it, it may still make Walky uncomfortable that she stabbed his sister. Maybe they can be friends though?
* Maybe they can be friends if that’s the case, though.
yeahhh it’s hard to see amber as someone who can make him happy as long as there’s that unresolved mass of stress and taboos
And she still hasn’t told him she changed his grades even after he told her to leave them the way they were.
Picturing some of the comment section figuring out if they can get Lucy to jab Sal with a push pin or something in some preemptive move.
(I kid, I kid.)
I do hope they talk, even if I think Walky’s mind seems pretty made up. Hope they can still be friends.
Or maybe not go to garbage roof at all? Maybe try to improve as people and be successful in your own ways for your own sakes and nobody else.
I doubt Willis is ging to write something like that for at least two years. I made myself sad.
Well, Amber’s branching out a bit more. Walky at least hung out with someone ouside the usual people, too, so those are at least a start.
well that might not be a thing then after all oof
“It’s just…I’ve been hitting it off with so many chicks lately, I guess I don’t feel like I’m all THAT garbage anymore”
Stop blowing holes in my ship! The SS Garbage Skowl can still sail on!
Don’t give up the ship.
Just patch those holes with duct tape. We’ll be FIIIINE.
Every time a cannonball makes a new hole, the garbage on board settles and plugs it up.
Garbage ship is my favorite ship
More like a barge for garbage.
Okay, I get those are supposed to be clouds in the sky, but I see a bat wing.
A relationship ending before the Slipshine chapter drops? Absolute mad man
I’m still holding out for a flashback
I didn’t get the impression that they’ve gotten past heavy petting and makeouts yet, but I mean, I could be wrong.
It’s okay, it opens up the way for something bizarre to happen between Sal, Danny and Amber that they’ll all laugh about later on to their children when discussing their own ‘wild and crazy college days’.
Make up sex could still come of this.
In this case, it would also be start-up sex, no?
David Walkerton, ladies and gentlemen! Communication and tact master!
Oh Walky. You’ll always be garbage to me.
Just noticed the change in the background between panels 1 and 2. Walky has been up on Garbage Roof from early evening until full night. I wonder if he’s going to tell anyone what he was thinking about?
“And stop staring at me with them big ol’ eyes!”
*Amber removes her glasses*
WALKY: “… Amazi-Girl?!?“
-tiny fart noise-