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Robert Downen @robertdownen.bsky.social ⋅ 4h
Matt G / AwesomeToyBlog @mattguzy.bsky.social ⋅ 3h
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hoisted by his own “being a not completely shitty person” petard
hehehe BOOM
Compare with the better known “stung by your own hornet”.
Better known where? I for one have never heard this one but I’m very familiar with hoisted by his own petard. Maybe if it’s a regional thing?
One is Shakespeare, Hamlet the other is… /searches/… apparently from Buzz Lightyear of Star Command. And knowing how animators and scriptwriters work, I’m confident that it’s an homage to Hamlet.
Where does Hamlet ever mention a hornet?
There’s a bit about a serpent stinging, but I can’t find a hornet. And the serpent isn’t anyone’s “own serpent”
Ugh, sorry if this was tongue-in-cheek, if so, the delivery is straight enough I’m failing.
The homage is that “stung by your own hornet” is derivative from “hoist by his own petard”.
Ah, so that’s what a petard is… here I thought it had something to do with engineering.
In a way, it does. The concept of ‘engineers’, as in the US Army Corps of Engineers, is actually a direct descendant of the early ‘sappers’. These were a unit who task used to be to tunnel beneath an enemy’s fortifications, ‘undermining’ the defensive perimeter, then setting off explosives (or a petard, French for bomb or explosive) in their tunnels to cause the walls or whatever to collapse, permitting the rest of their forces to advance.
Later they worked on a smaller scale, blowing down specific parts of walls, gates, and doors to force entry through the use of explosive ‘petards’ placed where they would have the best effect.
The use of the word “hoist” in that expression tends to confuse a lot of people due to linguistic drift. If “petard” originally meant a type of polearm then it’s a case of linguistic drift in English and French. It’s compounded by that expression falling out of common usage for centuries until it was revived by Star Trek of all things.
I will again lower the level of the conversation further by pointing out that petard is derived from Middle French petar, meaning to fart. So, ‘hoist by your own petard’ could also mean you farted so forcefully, it lifted you off the ground.
Actually, that’s highly relevant. While I had a gas with your attempt to make the conversation more base, your effort was ‘hoist by your own etymology’.
I mean, it’s in Shakespeare, so it’s not like it’s been unheard for centuries. Trek might have used it, but I don’t think it’s all that more common now than before that.
A petard was a small explosive device, not a polearm. And the phrase was still in use before that Star Trek reference.
A petard was originally a polearm used by French infantry intended to penetrate beyond the first ranks of a formation prior to the adoption of gunpowder, and archery.
I’m not aware of that etymology. Near as I can tell petard was derived from the French for farting and used for the explosive device for obvious reasons.
Maybe the polearm idea was a mistake by people hearing the “hoist by his own petard” phrase and not knowing what a petard was guessing it was a polearm as some vaguely historical thing that you could get hoisted on if you screwed up?
The polearm idea is a mistake. The original phrase, “hoisted by his own petard” is from Hamlet.
It is connected to engineering. The first engineers were military, who were used to build and destroy fortifications, among other tasks. Interesting side story, when the field branched into non military applications, it was called civil engineering, to differentiate it from military engineering.
Petard comes from the latin word peditus, which means having farted.
So while “boom” is a good sound effect, “Poot” is also good here.
Simple historie did a video on the petard here: https://youtu.be/T1fMcrrzox8
Linked Since there seems to be an interest in the subject ^^
Britta what do you think a petard is?
I’m not even sad about this. Joe hasn’t put in the work.
He has but AFAIK, only in text.
To the degree he has, he has taken it back repeatedly.
Idk tho that was a lot of work. Joe was Joyce’s lifeline for like, a chunk of time there. And he was good at it.
Friendship via text isn’t fake, it’s not less real than face-to-face friendship.
That’s not to say Joyce isn’t justified in whatever she chooses here, particularly, f2f with Joe runs the gauntlet of his various crass reaction options.
But it is kind of less real when you only do it via text, but revert when you do meet face to face.
He could have said he was looking to try. Gotta start working at some point to get experience.
Disagree
This is the “work”. He’s showing an interest in the emotional well-being of someone he cares about. Not saying we should be sad for him or that Joyce should be receptive, although I do think it would be good for her if she was.
There is such a thing as being gracious vice being a poor winner. Yes this is all the outcome of Joe’s behaviour. However, being snotty at someone who is actively trying to do better, is sure a shit way to encourage them to continue. Now, Joe seems to have the confidence to shrug of another’s moment of pain (maybe), but not everyone has that.
Now hold hands and be healthy happy friends
Nonono, the ship is still being constructed. That baby won’t be leaving harbor for at least 2 more books.
why would Joyce be upset?
Her parents are going through a divorce.
thanks for the reminder
She’s just discovered that she’s a monkey, and yet she doesn’t get to hang around in a tree eating bananas all day, and instead has to attend school.
So she doesn’t even get the cool parts of being a monkey.
Reject humanity, return to monkey?
Monkey has a tail… apes don’t. We just went through this.
Yes, the Librarian would have had a fit by now!
And that means SOMEBODY would have had their head physically unscrewed from their neck.
John LaRouquet aside, if you go back through the BloomCounty archives, the librarian used a pole ax on children who lost the books they borrowed.
Except for the monkeys that don’t.
Maybe she’s a baboon. Which would explain why she doesn’t hang around in trees eating bananas.
Her parents are getting divorced, she was recently kidnapped, a dude she knows got murdered, she watched her best friend’s dad get murdered, and she’s losing her religion.
Also just some of the general shittiness that comes with existing in a fucked up world.
There’s a lot of things it could be.
Damn that’s a lot to go through in 6 months. The whole losing your religion thing hurts like hell too.
Turns out being the protagonist kinda sucks
ACCURATE.
Can’t say I relate.
I’m more of a background/tertiary character who only gets two lines.
Lucky bastard.
I’ve been trying to figure out how to downgrade back to a non-speaking part myself.
Just be careful. It’s the extras and red shirts who get killed off just to show how dangerous things are.
Thanks, thanks a hellofalot. Now I have a REM earwig
This one goes out to you, then.
Linda Walkerton may have also carried out her threat to attempt to sue her parents’ broke clubhouse-for-cowardly-collective-flakers-pretending-to-be-a-church for libel, even though I’m pretty sure all they’re guilty of legally is being a bunch of gullible idiots who accepted a handout from a stranger they didn’t question…
Also, what they learned in class….How it’s all about how well you can adapt to the environment you’re in and raise future generations to achieve the same feat in their time…Joyce used to *believe* in the Brown family and what it was supposed to be about…Until it was time for them to live up to it. Sad.
Joe suddenly questioning why he chooses to be a shitty friend all the time
Come on Joe. You know that you want to be better. You just haven’t trusted yourself to ever try. You can *do this*.
I’d like to hope he can do it, but I’m worried he’ll fuck it up if he tries.
So is he.
Aw
*plays “Left Bank Two” by The Noveltones on Voxola PR-76*
You don’t seem too convinced, Joe.
Well well well, if it isn’t the consequences of Joe’s own choices.
Wonder what’s wrong with Joyce?
Most likely the divorce stuff. There’s really nothing else at this point that it could be.
I’m guessing that it is that she’s awaiting a text from her other brother, either Jocelyn or the other one not John. Does anyone not David Willis know his name?
Jordan?
THank you! Not enough sleep to go around lately. Need to come up with a good synthetic substitute that’s not simple alkaloids.
Hasn’t Jordan been Not In Contact with any of his family for (probably?) years? Joyce wouldn’t be waiting for a text from him, she’d know she’s not getting one.
She might have decided to reach out – regretting that she lost contact with him in lockstep with the rest of the family – and is disappointed he didn’t get back yet. Finding out your family isn’t great does make you look back at stuff and then realise that MAYBE sometimes you made bad decisions with them. Or what seems like bad decisions, but aren’t. (I really want to find out what happened with Jordan, OK?)
Joe finally starting to be the kind of friend who’s concerned with helping handle feelings? I am going to VERY much enjoy this.
You say feels, I hear fails.
If you fail at feels,
do you feel fails?
Also when are we gonna see the full trigger pull on this Brown divorce subplot (Assuming of course that’s the reason Joyce is even looking at her phone and she’s not just sad there’s previews of a shitty reboot of Dexter and Monkey Master on twitter) I want to see more Jocelyne and that’s the only viable reason for her to show up in main story I can think of.
Well, the next storyline is called “Sister, Christian”
wait whut
That name makes me think Joyce is going to fail at hiding her newfound atheism from Becky more than it makes me think divorce storyline, personally.
I’m thinking we’ll get some Jocelyne appearances, which likely means some development on the divorce
think joyce will be motoring?
What’s her price for flight?
In finding mister right?
Will sh be alright tonight?
Well, the next storyline has “Sister” in the title, so here’s hoping!
plot twist, it’s actually sarah’s long-forgotten sister liz who appeared in, like, one roomies strip that took place at christmas
https://imgur.com/a/PvfVDe8
I didn’t draw a threesome but I drew this.
I don’t know why but I feel Jennifer would secretly be really into this interaction. It covers all her bases.
I count three. Looks like a threesome to me.
This looks quite good!
Hmm…. is it just me, or does Sal’s cigarette look like a joint?
It’s just lines from her face crossing into the shape of the cigarette
I can’t handle these expressions. It’s wonderful. Thank you, Yoto!
Sal’s FACE, omg
This is strangely cute. Makes me hope for a HIGHLY unlikely future where they all mature enough to handle just being like…regular friends. Thanks for sharing!
nice
This image is bisexuality and I adore you for it
Nice!
That is an incredibly excellent Sal.
He sure as shit is just…GO Joe. Go be the friend you know you CAN BE!
Maybe Becky and Dinah should act out some scenarios to test the hypothesis. ‘Gosh Dr Saruyama, as the administrator overseeing your project I’d like to disburse your funding, but it’s been cut by the government! If only there was some other way I could pay you, wink, wink.’
Sex is a not a fungible commodity
If you deliver our funding in sex we will not be able to use that funding to pay for our equipment and salaries.
Besides, that’s really more admin work than the real action of science (no pun intended).
See, my mind immediately went to “I, Overseer MacIntyre, will disburse additional funds to you in exchange for The Sex, or perhaps just cuddles and/or heavy petting.”
They need a more specific input variable to test, as they have presumably already done lots of science with each other, prior to taking Prof. Brock’s class.
Perhaps specific kinds of science work or reading?
What other input variables do you think are worth testing?
Heh. Input variable.
Anyone else have suggestions for input variables worth testing?
Don’t all jump up at once!
Joe needs some credit. He’s not the same douchebag he was in September.
I’m giving him tons of credit, but it makes sense the in-universe people around him wouldn’t. Not yet, anyway…
This makes me legit sad for Joe. It’s one thing to be pigeonholed as “the science girl” or something like that, but it’s quite another to be pigeonholed as “the guy who couldn’t possible have any emotional depth because he’s so objectifying toward women”
I mean he deliberately pigeonholed himself as a defense mechanism
Defense from what?
Being hurt. Can’t get hurt if you don’t care.
Can’t do wrong if nothing you do matters
also hurting others, which his cheating dad did to plenty of women in his life.
if you never form an emotional connection with a woman, you can’t ever betray them. right?
Well, he did it to himself on purpose because of poor self image.
I was going to argue this because superficially he has a fantastic self image, but actually you’re right. Joe’s presentation is built upon the idea that he couldn’t ever expect himself to be a better person to women than his dad was. A child thinking so poorly of themselves is heartbreaking.
Joe is absolutely confident in pieces of himself, but his general inner self? No, he avoids opening up to people and letting them be close because he is not much of a fan of himself and thinks he can only hurt people. Which yeah, that’s pretty sad.
Note that Joe *noticed* what Joyce was doing.
Oh, it’s been noted. I am noting the heck out of it
Conceal, don’t feel, don’t let them know
Very fitting, since Willis drew Joe in Elsa’s dress years ago.
Let it Joe, let it Joe
That’s funny, I was just talking about the Frozen movies with a sibling, comparing the song quality.
Frozen is the only Disney movie to routinely leave me sobbing quietly to myself. Children being pulled apart from their siblings just… hits on multiple personal levels.
Wrong answer, Joe. Maybe change it next strip?
Also, the first panel “need more data.” Heeheeheeheeheehee
Let us look at the data we already have.
She does science all the time. She’s also done tons of science with Becky, presumably.
They might need to better define that input variable. Perhaps specific kinds of science work or reading?
What other input variables may be worth checking out?
THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
(in the final DoA strip, aeons hence, Dina reverses entropy.)
reverses…. entropy?
NOT SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE!!!!
Sorry, it’s just that I always wanted to do that! Plus, the second law of thermodynamics (the one pertaining to entropy as widely misunderstood as it is), is really less of a physical law and more of a statistical law.
So more of a suggestion really.
Love that reference. One of my favorite Asimov stories. And at the end he turned the light on.
I get that reference.
Hit enter by accident. Also was going to say I just happened to re-read that story a few days ago.
Uh… Wasn’t he this kind of friend with Joyce tho?
They were texting the whole time she was home after the first kidnapping.
Texting is one thing. Face to face is a new and scary realm.
Yep, but then Joe didn’t acknowledge it as emotionally significant when she got back, and after Joyce told him the truth about what his macho bullshit was doing to her he made an effort to change that was totally misguided because he didn’t know what change meant, so he’s nominally backslid into his old persona, except when he (very easily and with zero prompting) crawls out of that persona, he’s dealing with the consequences of how he used to talk to Joyce, who can’t really believe Joe would ask if she’s okay unprompted.
A cool game to play with friends: What manner and tone of “Shit. Shit.” is Joe expressing to himself in panels four and five??
Thank you Alex. What is, “shit,” and, “shit?”
Joe just remembered that he didn’t pull his own name in the “actual legitimate personal growth breakthrough arc” sweepstake and is tying to hold back to give his pick a chance.
I think Becky and Dina are supposed to be tagged? Joyce has been tagged for her voice alone before
Hmmm…. perhaps just an error on behalf of whoever tags the strips?
Although the tagging convention itself may not be consistent for various reasons. Are there any strips where these tagging “errors” occur?
Well, there was carld a few days ago.
There have occasionally been errors in the past, but Willis usually catches and fixes them quickly, at least once people start pointing them out.
Figure out what you want, Joe.
I think he knows, he just doesn’t think she thinks he knows. You know?
He may not be, Joyce, but I think that he wants to be.
I’m always impressed by how many expressions can get mapped onto those dot eyes
C’mon Joe, this is Joyce all but telling you that she wants you to be that kind of friend.
This is where you start to be the man you can be, by being the friend Joyce needs.
Just do it!
joe is realizing he fills the same role as Joey Tribbiani and is now contemplating the prejudice of society, forcing this stereotype onto unsuspecting Josephs. very sad.
in other news, my phone suggested Throbbing when i tried to type Tribbiani, which is funnier than my comment was.
Nooo..! My baby is a Joseph! He’s 16 months old, and adorable and an utter sweetheart and has 2 big sisters so if he tries to act like Joe or Joey I’m pretty certain they will set hin right!
I know he brought it upon himself but aww poor Joe. He’s got a good heart in there, and I’ve really enjoyed seeing his friendship with Joyce develop.
“Dammit, right in my emotional vulnerability! I had just about finished covering that shit up again!!!”
Come on, Joe. I’m rooting for ya, bud. Get in there with that vulnerability.
Joe want to have that conversation so bad. Let’s hope he will be able to ask again.
Obviously Dina and Becky need to do a lot more science together to test whether it gives Dina lady boners or not.
Who knows? It might just be the high five that did it. Whatever it was, they can only find out through experiment (no pun intended)!
That’s right, Joe! Conceal, don’t feel! Just like you learned from Disney.
Please let this be the beginning of Joe not being a chauvinist anymore.
Please
PLEEEEEASE
Damn it, Joe! The correct was “I can be, if you want me to be.”
*correct answer
Joe and Joyce are wonderful because they are the exact person the other didn’t want at the start of the comic, and now that they’re making headway into getting closer the barriers and stumbling and frustrating conversations built out of a friendship based on tenuous misunderstandings where they can’t just say how they feel because they (mostly Joe) have created a scenario wherein they are completely capable of having these conversations, but not at the same time, and if one of them pushes while the other isn’t ready they fall back on history showing why they’re too different and too difficult to be in each other’s lives, forgetting that they’ve already done good for each other and if they could just realize that for five seconds they’d know they could make it work.
They are the best ship, y’all.
I’ll be the devil’s advocate this time:
I have a college collegue that is the same alpha male type of Joe: tall, strong, handsome, etc.
I don’t know, it is strange to trust and believe in a guy who just had opened to you. Like, him telling me problems he got in his work, and shit.
I kinkd of understood Joyce, and Joe can just move on…
(Yeah, I got Joe’s avatar, because it was a funny one).
Man, I SOOO thought the alt-text was going to be “Yes.”
Awww. But he wants to be, Joyce! He won’t admit it yet because he’s been stuck in a cycle of toxic masculinity for a long time, but he wants to be!
It’s so funny, the role reversal. Joyce is more sure of herself than ever before (but won’t admit it as she’s worried people will not like the answers she’s found), and Joe is more unsure of himself than ever (but won’t admit it because he feels the need to project the image he’s had for so long)
Anyway wow I am feeling the part where you don’t care about things and everyone gets mad at you for that, and then when you start caring they get mad at you for that too.
Toxic masculinity is a helluva drug.
It doesn’t even have to be toxic masculinity or people getting mad at you.
Establish any trait strongly enough and people will overreact if you show signs of changing. Which tends to push you back into your lane.
I think Joyce has complained about it before.
I also don’t think she’s really mad at him here, just using it to deflect something she doesn’t want to talk about.
This is what we call a double bind. It all comes down to finding that little trick you need to break the stick.
[Ron Howard’s disembodied voice]
“He was.”
Something about Joyce’s parents? Or something else we don’t know about yet?
Isn’t he though? I mean there was that time they spent that weekend she was at home texting back and forth.
It is easier to be a friend over text and still pretend you aren’t emotionally attached or close to anyone than if you actually help someone with their problems in person on purpose and commit to comforting them.
Hey there – I tune in every day Dave Willis, but sometimes I lose track of plot lines and people over a series of months and even years. Did Ethan come back for second semester – or has it been established Mike’s death caused him to leave school? I honestly can’t remember what happened to the big lug!
Ethan hasn’t shown up in-person since the timeskip, but according to Walky he’s still in school and dressing like Emo Peter from Spider-Man 3.
He hasn’t shown up again yet, but he is said to still be in school so we will see him again eventually.
So, it is going to turn out that what she is really sad about is that her favourite Korean boy band just broke up?
Nah, there’s no buildings on fire.
Goddamn it, Joe.