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Dragging someone down implies they weren’t already lower than you. Note how these hard takes on Amber seem to flow off her like water of a duck’s back. She’s unfazed by his shade because she swims in the fucking Mariana trench.
Are you kidding? Sherlock Hound was one of my favourite cartoon as a child. One of the best Italian animated series (produced in Japan). In the original version the evil character talks with the accent of my city. That was the best♡!
Okay but this hasn’t felt like “stories as expression of feelings through characters’ vs. “stories as constructed set universes that we peer at through a window.”
We’re getting cross because characters are existing with problems they don’t immediately solve, like the only thing we’re waiting to happen is when Amber goes “dang I need therapy” and then she goes to therapy. That the only thing that matters in a journey is that we get to the destination.
And I’m innately suspicious of the Watsonian/Doylist divide, not because of its own merits, it strikes me as a pretty succinct explanation of how a story can be perceived, but because googling it to brush up had the first three links all go to TV Tropes, the scum of the earth.
That’s not exactly what I meant, unless I’m tired and misunderstanding you, which is extremely possible. What I mean is that we react as though these characters are people and so when they’re being jerky and/or dumb, people get annoyed or frustrated and it impacts their view of them as a ‘person’. The reason why they act like that may or may not mollify their feelings. That’s the Watsonian level. The Doyleist level is more ‘This would be aggravating and/or jerky, but they behave this way because of X, Y, and Z and it serves this function narratively, so this is good’. Both are valid ways to talk about it, but most people here seem to be doing this Watsonian level and you’ve been looking at it Doyleistically. Let the Watsonian reactions have their fun.
We’re gonna find out Ethan is a massively popular v-tuber and gives all his donations to charities for queer orphans, and then every Ethan detractor is gonna feel SILLY.
Just when are we gonna make someone other than Hitler our go-to point of comparison for stuff like this?
Not that I disagree with the point Orthogonal is making; but personally, I would have chosen someone like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Or even Electronic Arts.
I can see why my previous comment might be read as hostile, since I said the fuck-word and made sure to bold it AND italicise it. Rest assured it wasn’t actually hostile, nor did it in any way prevent the existing non-sequitur from being made.
What’s being right got to do with it? sure the blunt honesty is par for the course in Ethan and Amber’s friendship, but the antagonism is new. (to us readers just catching up)
now that said i’m not shocked, i think Amber has thick skin, and i feel for Ethan, and i’m excited to see more of them interacting because that’s an interesting vibe.
Ethan’s a bit of a jerk here, but it kinda seems like Amber came over to her depressed and in need of emotional support friend so she can just talk about stuff she wants emotional support for.
It’s… she’s kinda being a bad friend.
Like earlier when Ethan was in a better place it was a little selfish, but understandable…. and still is since she doesn’t really have another friendship of that depth….
I don’t know.
Should the MPD ex-vigilante be more active as part of the emotional support system for the person she’s known for a decade after the death of their mutual friend? Is she in a healthy enough place to effectively support him?
I know Ethan’s still grieving over the death of Mike, but he’s also being a huge jerk to one of the only other friends he has and I’m kinda liking him less because of that.
I think the entire point of Ethan right now is that he, personally, hasn’t got the energy to CARE about anyone “liking him less”; he’s wallowing in his own misery (not unjustifiably) and that’s what dictates everything else. To me, that’s fair enough, especially when- notwithstanding her various complicated issues- Amber is at the centre of a lot of what led to Mike’s death.
Yeah. They’re BOTH being kinda jerkish here, but they’re both doing it because they’ve got limited means to cope with a deeply traumatic situation that happened VERY recently for them. It’s part of a longstanding pattern with Amber, but it’s a pattern Ethan was fine with for quite some time – while it’s totally fair that he’s NOT fine with it anymore, it can take a while for those habits to break and, well, they’ve both clearly been isolating themselves in general since Mike’s death. They both need better coping skills. They both need to let more people into their lives in a meaningful way, so if two of Amber’s friends hook up and she has complicated feelings about it she can process them with other people and Ethan has emotional connections other than Mike. They need the tools to recognize this bad habit and, critically, recognize THEY CAN DO BETTER, (cough Amber cough,) and start trying to break it and build a healthier relationship. But all of that’s gonna take a while, even before we add the part where everyone in this comic’s a bunch of bad decisionmaking in a trench coat.
Is it insensitive to suggest that Amazi-Girl’s nighttime shenanigans are pretty crummy of her, considering it’s not only her body? Like if my husband decides he’s gonna treat the only car we have as a hot rod and constantly risk crashing it into stuff?
It at least started off by mutual agreement, back in the early strips when they were sharing memories and had less distinction. And now, Amazi-Girl’s nighttime shenanigans are roller derby, which Amber’s okay with. I don’t think there’s a problem.
There was a problem when they weren’t communicating and AG was going out at night, but Amber trying to keep AG from fronting at all was also a problem.
Yep. This honestly reminds me of the ‘you burned out on social interactions and can only speak in emoji’ strip… only he’s not being diplomatic about it anymore. Makes me sad but also, he needs it.
Hmm, I wonder if he’s kind of internalized some Mike aspects, himself. That, or he’s really settled into the role of dickhead. I suppose these are not mutually exclusive.
Exactly; some people in the comments the past few days are acting so aghast at Ethan being… somewhat sour. To Amber, who… well, let’s say had a degree of involvement in several traumatic situations culminating in the demise of Mike. So yeah, for my money he’s entitled to take his time to come to terms with it all, and owes anyone else precisely squat.
I personally cannot WAIT for the day Booster overreaches with an “analysis” and comes off like a presumptuous fool. That scene at the meeting however long ago pretty much means Booster’s right up there on the “DOA Jerk List”… for the record, far higher than current Ethan.
I mean, canonically it’s only been like, what, 3-4 months since he lost one of his best friends and (possible longtime) romantic interest? On top of everything else he’s had to put up with, why is that an unreasonable amount of time to still be a little impatient and snappy, especially after having spent winter break with his incredibly homophobic parents?
I think I just don’t like Amber. Did she really just come over to (try not to) talk to Ethan because she wanted to tell him that a guy he liked is dating the girl who took him hostage once upon a time? Really? Why? What possible reason could a friend have to think ‘oh hey, here’s two things that upset Ethan when they’re present in his life, let me make sure they stay stuck right up in there’?
Ambers not a likable person yet for some reason people seem to like her though I wonder how it would be actually meeting some of these people in real life
As someone who sympathizes with Amber, I don’t find her ‘likable’ – she’s so deeply depressed and self-destructive that she’s spent most of the strip engaged in an elaborate form of self-harm (becoming a vigilante seems to have been something she and AG agreed on before they made the divide stark, and staying up all night repeatedly, whether to starve her alter out or to perfect actually impossible speedrunning tech, is a bad idea. Her tendency to isolate? Also unhealthy. She’s actively tried to sabotage friendships because she’s convinced she can only be garbage. And of course, we have the Sal fight.) In reality, if I knew someone like her this well I’d probably try to encourage her to find help – therapy, an internet support group, SOMETHING – before eventually concluding I can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped and probably scale back interactions.
But in fiction? Different story. She’s not always likable, but she is UNDERSTANDABLE, and that makes her compelling. And as someone who’s had serious depressive episodes, I recognize that one of the things about mental illness is that we’re often not fun to be around. We lash out at people who love us because we don’t think we deserve it, we shut ourselves away, and I totally get the social anxiety aspects. This gets all the worse when you add trauma into the mix, and Amber was seriously traumatized BEFORE the semester from hell. So I sympathize with that, and want her to stop hating herself, and want Amber and AG to recognize that there isn’t a good alter/bad alter dichotomy, they’re both just PEOPLE and Amber has plenty of good traits just as AG stalked someone with violent intent for like, over a week, and that was fucked up.
Would I like to know Amber in reality? No. But do I enjoy reading about her and sympathize with her despite being a hot mess with a ton of bad coping mechanisms? Yes. I am a (dramatically less violent) hot mess with a ton of bad coping mechanisms. I’d like to think I’m still deserving of the chance to do better and have friends.
”and want Amber and AG to recognize that there isn’t a good alter/bad alter dichotomy, they’re both just PEOPLE”
This is perfect. Thank you.
(I also agree with the rest of your comment, but that was the part that stuck out to me. It’s so rare to see people talking about headmates like they’re actually people with nuance instead of tools for a job.)
Glad I resonated, but I can’t take all the credit – most of my knowledge of this stuff’s been absorbed from commenters who are systems, especially Cerberus’s takes during the Danny breakup/stalking period (which included a LOT of highlighting how AG as the golden one was displacing her negative traits onto Amber when she recognized they were in fact NEGATIVE behaviors.)
My favourite moment in It’s Walky!, in David Willis’ entire career as an artist, is when Dina accidentally locks herself in a room with a bomb that she threw in there and has just long enough to curse her incompetency before Walky and Mike burst into the room just long enough for her to apologize. My favourite character, the one who defines the series for me, is Sal, who had her parents exploded by the Head Alien because she pulled the “pft see if I care?” card and he recorded her saying it, and was seconds away from blowing up the entirety of North America and only got stopped by seeing Danny again, whereupon she kept trying to win him back and his own incompetence would have ruined what he had with Billie until someone else ruined his chance to do it, and then later Sal beat his girlfriend bloody and still gave it one last shot.
I don’t need these characters to be good, and I mean that morally and through their ability to achieve their goals, I need them to be people, and people are capable of ruinous failure.
Its fair to say that if somethings set in a recognizable reality where the setting is ‘slice of life’ (not sure if thats the correct term) I’ll wonder about it
Honestly, not really, aside from when I see your comments on here. I really probably be friends with any of these characters in real life, but that doesn’t correspond to how much I like reading about them.
It’s certainly a perfectly reasonable thing to consider when a range of extreme personality types- and the readers’ reactions to them- are presented. Not sure why it’s being made out that this is particularly strange, honestly.
Well IRL, the chance I’d have been (university is much far, very past) friend with any of them is close to zero, bc of not sharing any center of interests. So not really.
I’d probably have shared a course only with Joyce but we haven’t seen any literature course.
I was assuming that Amber decided to reach out to Ethan to ask him how he’s doing and let him know that she still cares. That’s looking less likely now.
I have to agree, and I can’t blame Ethan for being at his wits end with her either. Frequently hurting others and then just wallowing in self-deprecation and acting like she’s just some irredeemable demon just to justify her own self-hatred (see lashing out at her mother for “loving monsters” like her)? You know the old saying “hurt people hurt people” and all but she’s on some emotional abuse tactics. Ethan’s probably been on the receiving end of that more than most, too..
Just look at the role models she’s had to work with. Stacy’s a doormat who buries anything even hinting at negativity as a defense mechanism, and Blaine was… well Blaine. Most everyone else is either a peer (the rest of the cast) or a fictional-to-her character (comic books).
Amber only knows how to internalize and compartmentalize emotions.
Sure, but none of that materially impacts situations like this one, where Ethan and Amber are interacting one-on-one. Ethan’s tired out and stressed; Amber’s here again vaguely presenting some (not-)crisis, and his role, as he well understands, is to deal with whatever she gives him. If we each stopped to account for every other person’s baggage and suffering when we interacted with them and made allowances, no-one would ever be even remotely unpleasant to another person.
It’s also worth pointing out that this is Ethan’s entire relationship with Amber. She has something wrong and instead of practically dealing with it, Ethan just coos over how she’s cool and smart and nice and there’s nothing wrong with her in the slightest.
He’s an enabler who’s taken control of her self-loathing, which then led Amber to take ownership of his suffering to fuel a suicidal death march involving two car chases where by the end she was hoping Sal was going to murder her.
Yup. He’s not just part of her emotional support system, for the longest time he was her emotional support system. That’s going to wear on anyone, especially when they’re expected to just stand idly by as the other person rejects help and spirals deeper and deeper into their own self-loathing.
I dunno, I feel like any enablement probably comes from Ethan feeling guilty about being gay and “ruining” their relationship and being unwilling to put his foot down around her or upset her. The guy is, after all, a mountain of insecurities and self-loathing himself; it’d make sense that he’d cling to Amber out of fear of not being able to find anybody else who shares his nerdiness. It can be really hard and even scary to call out the people you love, especially if they’ve proven to be volatile in the past
He’s always been like that per flashbacks to their childhood, and it tracks with his behaviour in Shortpacked. Per how he once put it to Danny, he wanted to protect her forever, but what ended up happening is that he became someone who held Amber to no standards, and thus Amber had to constantly, innately be someone without issues to justify to herself that she’s allowed to be friends with him. Come a crisis she runs to him for support and all he can think to say is glowing praise, because he can’t constructively criticize her or even let her feel bad for five minutes.
Same, she’s incredibly irritating in universe and out and it’s making Ethan feel more reasonable here. I mean, i know depression and anxiety by design makes you self absorbed in ways (got both in my “collection”) but THIS is honestly just. The regular type of self absorbed and inconsiderate. She could have talked to Joe, or Dina, Dorothy would have made a damn good person to talk to.
Like, i sympathize with her and her struggles, of course i do I’m not made of stone. I want her to get better and be happy in life, i want good things for her! But she’s so incredibly frustrating to read because it seems like over the past decade she never makes ANY progress! Like, she’s not actively trying to self harm anymore, that’s good, but I’ve started my reread and otherwise it seems like she’s right back where she was in the beginning of not worse. And i hate seeing people who so desperately need help refuse to want it. Ethan is honestly the most relatable one here
I think my problem with Amber is that, every time she’s presented with a problem or conflict, her response is ‘find a maladaptive coping mechanism, turn it up to eleven, then break the knob off’. And then she stacks a new one on top when she has a new problem.
I think I got tired of waiting for her to make even one healthy choice or put a shred of effort into actually fixing/replacing all those broken knobs about five storylines ago. (Don’t call me on that number, I don’t know exactly when I started having zero patience for Amber, but it was a while ago.) Either way, her loop is just tired and I don’t like it and I don’t like her.
Ethan lasted a LOT longer than I did, while knowing Amber longer and at closer quarters than me. I think part of my defense of him in these past strips is a sense of kinship: he feels as done with Amber’s shit as I am, or close to it. He’s the only one in the cast whose reaction to Amber’s new broken knob at eleven being ‘oh god not again’.
Amber is of course a long term abuse victim with serious trauma dumped on top of that, in addition to linked serious untreated mental illness – in multiple variety.
Just since we’ve met her, not counting the flashbacks, she’s dealt with multiple seriously traumatic events still with no professional help.
Seems like she really should just handle all that better.
Of course there was that one time she really needed therapy (after the gas station incident), but that would mean admitting a failing so Blaine put her in self-defense classes instead.
It’s frustrating and makes me sad, but Amber’s far from unique among this strip’s Consistently Poor Decisionmakers, especially because of trauma. (Becky. Honey. Please examine the fact that you don’t feel you can be negative and your insecurities about Joyce. Joyce. Sweetie. You have an anxiety disorder. Walky, your issues with studying could be because you never needed to learn how, but they could also be undiagnosed ADHD – or worse, your mom knew and denied it – and you should probably look into things. Dorothy, dear GOD, rest and socialization are not distractions from your goals, they are 100% necessary parts of your health regime and you will do better work when you incorporate them. Jennifer, you are in so much denial and the reinvention never works. Ruth… oh dear. All of you need competent trauma-informed therapy and I dearly wish you’d receive it.) So like, it’s frustrating because hers are among the most spectacularly maladaptive, because Amber was among the most traumatized after longterm abuse, but let’s be real NONE of them cope with their issues and trauma well, because the oldest main cast member is Ruth, who just turned 21 the other day. They’re all messes. I wish there hadn’t been such a major backslide for Amber over the timeskip (and a lesser but still noticeable one for Ruth,) but it makes sense with the amount of shit they’ve dealt with in a very short time – even with adequate mental healthcare, and it doesn’t sound like Amber got that, it takes years to consistently unlearn bad brain patterns. Especially when you’ve got REALLY deep-seated depression. Backslides are, unfortunately, very common along the way.
“talk to Ethan because she wanted to tell him that a guy he liked is dating the girl who took him hostage once upon a time? Really?”
No? She came to talk to Ethan because she need someone to talk about how the guy Amazi-Girl fall in love with is now dating the girl that is part of her trauma. This is someone seeking help and who has only one person to turn to. I really can’t blame her for that.
Danny and Ethan had only a crush for each other that never lead to any thing. It’s not something that can really hurt Ethan. and it’s okay to ask for help.
I really dig that Ethan is explicitly aware of his pattern, with how he supports Amber’s crises. Looks like he’s up to calling out their habit, but he also doesn’t really want to lose their pattern — he’s exasperated but he isn’t refusing to support her. It makes sense for him and I enjoy it.
Granted, he could simply say “no” and close the door. He could also have ignored the very loud stomping in front of said door rather than talking to her in the first place….
But, personality-wise, he went from “doormat” to “not-quite-subtle passive-agressivity” and I’m not sure he changed to the point of being THAT direct towards somebody bothering him.
To me, him talking to Amber now reads more of a tired “let’s get this done and leave me alone [again. like every time I needed your support {except now I don’t even want it anymore}].”
Blue Magic is the sexiest thing about the Final Fantasy series. Blue Mages copy attacks and spells from various monsters, and they’re always the coolest/hottest character in their respective game.
People are saying Ethan’s acting out of place here, but honestly, I’ve had people in my life that also ever only came to me to vent about petty drama too, and that’s hard enough to grin and bear when you’re not also dealing with grieving your dead friend on top of it. Ethan’s being blunt, yeah, but he’s totally within his right to call Amber out for this.
i know that Ethan is depressed and going through a tough time and that that’s very different from dressing dark and combing his bangs down as a gimmick, but every time i see him i still want to make a chris gaines joke.
sorry Ethan.
… Honestly, Amber has been in a hole for so long, from time to time she grabs a shovel and digs a little bit further. But. For once, I can say she and Ethan could be more or less in an horizontal relationship, instead of him doing his best to support her without getting much in return.
If they get to talk again, I mean.
(Also, Ethan taking a dive into the Depression Pool isn’t a good thing, of course. As fabulous as his hair looks.)
Well, even digging a hole (oh how I HATE that phrase in this context) isn’t guaranteed to keep you away from people, because after enough digging you’re bound to find a super villain lair or UFO or lost civilization or sewer clown or SOMETHING that guarantees you’re not COMPLETELY alone.
As for Ethan’s goth / emo streak, he’s cute but at the cost of being a Mike substitute that’s as good as grade C vegan cheese.
Wait, what context? Sorry ;A; It’s a turn of phrase I’ve used for myself, so…
Anyway. Yeah, considering Amber has been doing vigilantism as a coping mechanism that through the first semester was proven to be really bad for her health, I’d say the examples you gave might not be that far off (?) After all, “what doesn’t kill you makes you weirder” and all that.
There joke about Mike’s death leaving a shard of his Assholery taking root in a lot of the cast has been floated around before :’) So I’m not surprised Ethan got the biggest one. He’s the one who was the closest to him and I was looking forward to his appearance (though, at the pace DOA goes, it’s going to be like 2025 before he starts feeling a little better. Poor dude.)
Last strip, I pointed out that “go back in your hole” (what Ethan said to Amber) is a really condescending thing to say to introverts and socially challenged individuals such as myself, and I don’t think you were there? Anyway, I’m sure you don’t mean it that way; it’s but pure confidence that you happened to use that phrase.
People in general looking remarkably hotter with longer hair and/or depression is something I seem to recall from back in the day, when “hair” was still a thing in my life. Back in a different century. And another millennium. Gawd I’m ancient.
One side, I complaing about the influence of toxic people in our lives. For a time ago, Mike’s gone, but still his stupid influence is happening between people like Ethan and Amber. Is sad that you can’t recover from shit people, even they pass away.
Other side, I’m suprised how Ethan could figure the relationship dynamic with Amber. He’s other person, tottally different of old Ethan.
Ethan and Amber (and Walky) were thoroughly abused for a long time (Walky was abused for a shorter period of time but was no less abused during it). Despite the years-long campaign, or even because of it, they have lingering feelings of attachment for Mike. Maybe Amber and Ethan are just desperate for a feeling of familiarity or stability, the way an abused spouse stays with their abuser because it’s known and despite how terrible it is it’s still less scary than an unknown.
Basically I hope one day they realize what a garbage person Mike was and they only remember him as an example of what not to be.
Mike was also, from what we can tell, their only other friend besides each other, so it makes sense that they were attached – even as they started making new friends in college, Mike was the friend they knew for years, and he didn’t have the baggage of dating each other, breaking up in a really messy fashion, and the fraying of Amber and Ethan’s friendship that had started before they reached college. Mike was the ‘safe’ friend, even if neither of them trusted him really.
I think Walky might have more complicated feelings than lingering attachment, personally. My bet is Mike’s the first kid Walky’s ever known who died, especially in such a traumatic fashion, and he obviously knows he ‘should’ miss Mike because his roommate died and that’s sad, right? He was one of Amber’s best friends who died saving her! He should be sad about that! And there’s probably some grief there, along with the shock and trauma he’s trying to avoid (because Walky very much is an ‘avoid acknowledging the trauma’ type.) But I think what’s also there, and maybe the most prominent emotion, is actually relief that he will never have to deal with Mike again. (And/or disbelief because someone his age can’t die and Mike did enough elaborate fakeouts he can’t totally trust this is for real.) And he can’t express that, both because Walky tries to avoid these sorts of emotions and because he’s not ‘supposed to’ be relieved Mike is dead. Mike died a hero, Mike saved Amber, Mike was just a kid like him who was killed by a mobster supervillain, and Mike wasn’t anywhere near as bad as Blaine or Ross who it’s ‘okay’ not to grieve. (I also think Walky’s not willing to recognize Mike was abusive, because once he starts acknowledging you don’t have to be physically hitting someone or kidnapping them at gunpoint to be abusive he might have to start admitting to himself that his mom isn’t just ‘not a great parent.’ I wouldn’t be shocked if Ethan has a similar thought process on that front, and if Amber doesn’t think she can make the comparison because at least he wasn’t Blaine.)
Grief is the emotional response resulting from the loss of something significant. It is a natural healing process. It’s not bad. It’s not something we “get over” quickly and there’s no right way to do it. It’s messy and complicated and very personal. Distraction, crying, laughing, getting sick, lashing out, and feeling numb are all common ways to respond, but there are PLENTY more. Some recover quickly. Some have it trigger something within and develop anxiety or depression.
Acute grief occurs in the first few months to the first year after a loss and causes intense symptoms of shock, sadness, distress, guilt, anger, disbelief, emotional pain, yearning, relief, irritability, apathy, anxiety, sleep trouble, appetite issues, forgetfulness, and/or poor concentration (and many more), but symptoms normally diminish over time. Sometimes, acute grief doesn’t go away within a year and can even get worse at times. This is called complicated grief. It’s like being stuck in a heightened state of mourning that can last for YEARS, keeping the person from healing. About 5-20% of people develop complicated grief, the percentage depending on the age and culture of the person (most studies put the general population numbers at 7-10%). Seeing a therapist who is trained in grief counseling reduces the risks of developing complicated grief, can help guide someone through acute grief and avoid unhealthy coping mechanisms, and helps the people who have complicated grief work through it and get to a better mental place.
When someone moves past the most intense symptoms of acute/complicated grief, they enter the lifelong stage of integrated grief. This is when someone has accepted the loss, has learned to cope with the feelings surrounding the loss, and has gone back to living their life. They might still miss what was lost or feel pain over a memory, but the thoughts and memories are no longer preoccupying or disabling. Occasionally, a triggering event (such as a holiday or item of importance) can cause a period of acute grief. This is common and not a sign of failure or of doing something “wrong.” It’s perfectly normal.
If you ever feel concerned, see your doctor. It’s what they’re there for. And if they make you feel bad or unheard? Well, second opinions exist for a reason.
So WHY exactly did I go into so much detail on grief? To tell you that how they are reacting currently is EXTREMELY normal. Amber and Ethan lost someone they have been friends with since grade school just two or three months ago (time skip was mid October to mid January). They are still deep in the acute phase of grief and coping as best as they can with the tools that they possess. While I would want them both to see a professional because of their risk factors and to keep them from relying on unhealthy coping techniques, their feelings and reactions are valid. Again, acute grief. So don’t be too hard on the kids.
Becky is also still feeling acute grief over her mother and possibly her father. Joyce is going through acute grief from multiple things at the same time (probably also some acute grief and mixed feelings over Ross too). Grief happens when you lose something significant. Her relationships (like her parents, friends, congregation… including those that have just changed instead of ended), religion, worldview, church, and vision for her future were all significant to her (and some to Becky as well). Their loss has an impact.
Tldr; They all need therapy. Grief is normal. Mike has been dead less than 3 months, let the boy be a grumpy goth for a while. Also, THERAPY. God do these children need therapy. They need to hand that shit out like Roz handing out condoms; give everybody some and occasionally throw everything you got at someone who looks like they could use it. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/late/
I recognize that they NEED therapy, but having qualified adults sort out the problems would take away from the narrative of the comic. A story centered on young people only works if the adults are massively unqualified to offer meaningful support.
So Amber IS shocked by Sal and Danny’s relationship! For me, this is reality unexpected. But if this is able to motivated her to talk again with her oldest friend, HOORAY!
Hmmm… is he being a jerk, really? Kinda feels more like he is suffering from serious depression and Amber and he are both showing increased signs of mental health problem. I would hope they knew better how to lean on each other, but I am still disappointed that Amber, who has acknowledged mental health issues for over a decade at this point, would be helping her alleged best friend learn coping mechanisms …. nvm, she’d assume any help she offers would make it worse. I hear it now that I say it
What if the whole point of this overarching Mike story, is all Willis trying to show how depression and rudeness often go hand in hand, so be nice to EEEEEVERYOOOOONNNE…!!!
(I’ve always loved Mike, btw. I hope he is somehow literarily commemorated like that…)
I don’t know what’s worse, that they keep gravitating together regardless of how much they (dis)like each other or that they’re right even in their angst
I hate how everyone just accepts Amber’s declining mental health as run-of-the-mill and perfectly fine. They’re even friends with her delusional superhero persona. Hope she gets the help she needs soon.
Comment 1: I was really hoping Amber was about to say that Ethan’s obvious depression/PTSD/mental-health-thing was the crisis to validate, but okay…
Comment 2: Ethan is realizing in this post-Mike ness that Amber (&Joyce, it’s been an established thing) tends to hang out with Ethan because they NEED him, while by contrast Mike hung out with Ethan because he WANTED him.
(…Or worse, that Mike also needed him, but that this time Ethan failed.
That sounds more like Amber thinking, while evaluating self worth via the actions of others is very Ethan.)
I really don’t think that’s fair. I just read through some Joyce and Ethan strips and it seems well-established that they hang out off-screen (like eating lunch together) and she takes interest in the things he’s interested in (like remembering his action figure rotation). Joyce did need Ethan to escape her lust and to walk across campus, but she also hung out with him outside of those contexts and they had lots of hangouts that Ethan enjoyed.
In contrast, Ethan and Amber haven’t really hung out since before college, which he spent a lot of time trying to change and never really succeeded at. Amber even told him she didn’t have the bandwidth to hang out with him specifically for a while.
Ethan is amusingly re-evaluating all of the relationships he had before and realizing how much his friends used him. Ethan no longer is going to indulge Amber’s desire to use him as an emotional pillow. Which is not great because she needs friends but how much of their relationship was Amber being there for him?
This is awkward because it was mostly off-stage and we haven’t had real flashbacks to it, but it’s explicitly stated early on that Amber spent most of the summer playing emotional support after Ethan came out during their prom date. Though of course we do see the earlier flashbacks where he is supporting her.
She took some distance after that at the start of the semester and then more trauma happened and everything got worse. I don’t even really think she used him as an emotional pillow much. She mostly hid and buried it. He’d come to try and drag her out of the hole, but her seeking him out for support seemed pretty rare.
Amber was sneaky. Instead of coming to Ethan with her problems, she made him come to her by being so visibly dysfunctional that anyone with an ounce of sympathy for her could not help to try to fix the problem, only to then vent her self-loathing by telling them she was a waste of their time.
Ethan is grieving Mike’s death and Amber basically shut him out for the past month. He’s also taking note that Danny highlighted a lot of his friends used him as an emotional pillow but weren’t there for him when HE needed it.
Danny avoided him
Amber avoided him
They have their reasons but Ethan is just noticing everyone giving him a wide birth.
Alternatively, he’s wearing the Raimi version of the Venom symbiote.
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If you wanna feel sad, Ethan, I guess that’s fine.
But would it kill you NOT to drag others down with you?
Misery loves company.
Except when that company is Amber coming over to deliver facebook relationship status updates.
Dragging someone down implies they weren’t already lower than you. Note how these hard takes on Amber seem to flow off her like water of a duck’s back. She’s unfazed by his shade because she swims in the fucking Mariana trench.
I’ll give you that, but Ethan’s still being a jerk regardless.
It’s a character drama, the characters need to cause drama.
thankyoucaptainovbious.jpg
dude, you missed the perfect opportunity to make a “no shit sherlock” comment
Once more I see it plainly:
“social cues” like this one ≡ frickin guessing game
Oh, phew. Finally, someone recognized Sherlock Hound.
That is so clearly a Fox or maybe a Maned Wolf
I’d have recognised him sooner if he were being inflated with a bicycle pump.
Are you kidding? Sherlock Hound was one of my favourite cartoon as a child. One of the best Italian animated series (produced in Japan). In the original version the evil character talks with the accent of my city. That was the best♡!
Taffy, that is the most innately violent act you could ever perform on me and I’m suing for emotional damages.
Well of course, but we’re fans and fans are gonna react on a Watsonian level as well as a Doyleist one. Let people have this.
Both thoroughly agreed and impressed at the sneaky reference.
Okay but this hasn’t felt like “stories as expression of feelings through characters’ vs. “stories as constructed set universes that we peer at through a window.”
We’re getting cross because characters are existing with problems they don’t immediately solve, like the only thing we’re waiting to happen is when Amber goes “dang I need therapy” and then she goes to therapy. That the only thing that matters in a journey is that we get to the destination.
And I’m innately suspicious of the Watsonian/Doylist divide, not because of its own merits, it strikes me as a pretty succinct explanation of how a story can be perceived, but because googling it to brush up had the first three links all go to TV Tropes, the scum of the earth.
That’s not exactly what I meant, unless I’m tired and misunderstanding you, which is extremely possible. What I mean is that we react as though these characters are people and so when they’re being jerky and/or dumb, people get annoyed or frustrated and it impacts their view of them as a ‘person’. The reason why they act like that may or may not mollify their feelings. That’s the Watsonian level. The Doyleist level is more ‘This would be aggravating and/or jerky, but they behave this way because of X, Y, and Z and it serves this function narratively, so this is good’. Both are valid ways to talk about it, but most people here seem to be doing this Watsonian level and you’ve been looking at it Doyleistically. Let the Watsonian reactions have their fun.
Thank goodness she has such high bone density.
That’s all I ever do :P. Depression is contagious. Like Yawning.
Oh come on, bruh! Have you seen what Ethan’s doing?!?!
It’s no comparison really, especially considering how much happiness your art brings into this world!
We’re gonna find out Ethan is a massively popular v-tuber and gives all his donations to charities for queer orphans, and then every Ethan detractor is gonna feel SILLY.
Hitler could have cured polio. It wouldn’t make him any less a villain, just more nuanced. See Musk and electric car patents vs Bezos and naked greed.
*both of their naked greed.
You’re really out here… comparing Ethan… to Hitler… and thinking you’ve made a halfway decent point…
Just when are we gonna make someone other than Hitler our go-to point of comparison for stuff like this?
Not that I disagree with the point Orthogonal is making; but personally, I would have chosen someone like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. Or even Electronic Arts.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Heyyyy cookies, I think this thread is actually kind of delightfully weird, be cool. Maybe just let people make wacky non sequiturs sometimes??
I can see why my previous comment might be read as hostile, since I said the fuck-word and made sure to bold it AND italicise it. Rest assured it wasn’t actually hostile, nor did it in any way prevent the existing non-sequitur from being made.
It’s different from ‘doormat’ status, I guess.
Like Joyce, I think Ethan is gonna overshoot his newfound ability to actually be angry and grumpy at the world until he eventually balances himself.
I really don’t think he’s that out of line? He isn’t being nice, but he’s right.
What’s being right got to do with it? sure the blunt honesty is par for the course in Ethan and Amber’s friendship, but the antagonism is new. (to us readers just catching up)
now that said i’m not shocked, i think Amber has thick skin, and i feel for Ethan, and i’m excited to see more of them interacting because that’s an interesting vibe.
Ethan’s hero is Dinobot, and (og BW spoilers) Dinobot DID drag others down with him, and it was awesome.
… though, granted, Dinobot wasn’t QUITE as emo as Ethan’s being.
Honestly I’d rather see him literally drag Amazi-Girl like Dinobot in hand-to-hand combat than doing this.
Ethan might look really cute now, but this Mike-substitute stuff isn’t exactly worthy of being a secret ingredient if you know what I mean :/
Ethan’s a bit of a jerk here, but it kinda seems like Amber came over to her depressed and in need of emotional support friend so she can just talk about stuff she wants emotional support for.
It’s… she’s kinda being a bad friend.
Like earlier when Ethan was in a better place it was a little selfish, but understandable…. and still is since she doesn’t really have another friendship of that depth….
I don’t know.
Should the MPD ex-vigilante be more active as part of the emotional support system for the person she’s known for a decade after the death of their mutual friend? Is she in a healthy enough place to effectively support him?
Maybe?
That’s exactly what she did, and a good friend is exactly what she’s not.
MPD is an outdated term, the correct term now is DID
I mean, he’s not entirely wrong, either…
I know Ethan’s still grieving over the death of Mike, but he’s also being a huge jerk to one of the only other friends he has and I’m kinda liking him less because of that.
I think the entire point of Ethan right now is that he, personally, hasn’t got the energy to CARE about anyone “liking him less”; he’s wallowing in his own misery (not unjustifiably) and that’s what dictates everything else. To me, that’s fair enough, especially when- notwithstanding her various complicated issues- Amber is at the centre of a lot of what led to Mike’s death.
Yeah. They’re BOTH being kinda jerkish here, but they’re both doing it because they’ve got limited means to cope with a deeply traumatic situation that happened VERY recently for them. It’s part of a longstanding pattern with Amber, but it’s a pattern Ethan was fine with for quite some time – while it’s totally fair that he’s NOT fine with it anymore, it can take a while for those habits to break and, well, they’ve both clearly been isolating themselves in general since Mike’s death. They both need better coping skills. They both need to let more people into their lives in a meaningful way, so if two of Amber’s friends hook up and she has complicated feelings about it she can process them with other people and Ethan has emotional connections other than Mike. They need the tools to recognize this bad habit and, critically, recognize THEY CAN DO BETTER, (cough Amber cough,) and start trying to break it and build a healthier relationship. But all of that’s gonna take a while, even before we add the part where everyone in this comic’s a bunch of bad decisionmaking in a trench coat.
Speedrunning is boring and empty by design?
well shitSpeedrunning is boring and empty by design?
well shit
Compared to letting AG throw her off roofs and flying through traffic?
I like to think that the reason Amazi-Girl can parkour is that she just views it at real life Speedrunning.
“If I backflip off that dumpster and grab onto the fire escape with my ankles I can save three frames. I mean, seconds.”
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way AG should be able to fly…
Yeah relative to “actual crimefighting and car chases” speed running is pretty boring
Hard to kill yourself in a freak speedrunning accident
Unless of course you OD on performance-enhancing substances.
Is it insensitive to suggest that Amazi-Girl’s nighttime shenanigans are pretty crummy of her, considering it’s not only her body? Like if my husband decides he’s gonna treat the only car we have as a hot rod and constantly risk crashing it into stuff?
While you’re asleep in the passenger seat.
It at least started off by mutual agreement, back in the early strips when they were sharing memories and had less distinction. And now, Amazi-Girl’s nighttime shenanigans are roller derby, which Amber’s okay with. I don’t think there’s a problem.
There was a problem when they weren’t communicating and AG was going out at night, but Amber trying to keep AG from fronting at all was also a problem.
huh
I’m p sure that didn’t double post last night
0000 time
oh god damn it Ethan
Spring-semester Ethan makes me sad.
Damn Ethan ain’t pulling punches. We welcome our Bully Siegal overlord!
There was a time of my life when I could hear the phrase “God dammit [insert name here]” without immediately thinking of DBZA.
…that time is but a distant memory.
Same problem, but with “Neeeeerd” and “Nobody cares [Krillin].”
Same “problem”, but with “Yes [Goku], I’m a green fucking dinosaur!!!”
Also, where’d you get that avatar?
Any time I hear someone ask for help “I’mma coming, Krillin!” involuntarily pops into my head.
You’re a bluebird on a telegraph line
I hope you’re happy now…
Okay this just went from a potential train wreck, but now it’s a potentially HILARIOUS train wreck and I wholeheartedly approve.
Yeah I don’t remember Ethan ever being this cutting before
He had his moments occasionally but yeah, he’s depressed and so is out of fucks for putting things tactfully.
Yep. This honestly reminds me of the ‘you burned out on social interactions and can only speak in emoji’ strip… only he’s not being diplomatic about it anymore. Makes me sad but also, he needs it.
Hover text mixed with Amber’s face while pointing made me giggle!
Emothan is almost smiling in the last panel. Almost.
Ethan sacrificed his fucks. He isn’t ‘abstinent’, he merely has no fucks left to give.
I didn’t know the supply of fucks was a fixed pie.
Mmmmm…. fucking pie…
Let it cool first, though. Things get unpleasant otherwise. At least, that’s what I’ve heard.
’cause then what you’ve got is a hot mess…
I’ll see myself out.
To be fair before the time skip almost everything that didn’t involve slash fics was a crisis to Amber.
Oh, boo-hoo. So your friend died or whatever, it’s not like you knew him before the first semester, anyway. :eyeroll:
/SARCASM
Huh? I thought they knew each other since middle school?
Still Asher after I changed a letter. Dang.
Goddamn it.
Hmm, I wonder if he’s kind of internalized some Mike aspects, himself. That, or he’s really settled into the role of dickhead. I suppose these are not mutually exclusive.
Agree. I’m believe the former, and that externalizing it is intentional as well. For complicated reasons.
*I believe
I think he’s just too emotionally exhausted for ambers bullshit anymore and kind of bitter about it
Exactly; some people in the comments the past few days are acting so aghast at Ethan being… somewhat sour. To Amber, who… well, let’s say had a degree of involvement in several traumatic situations culminating in the demise of Mike. So yeah, for my money he’s entitled to take his time to come to terms with it all, and owes anyone else precisely squat.
+ he’s hot
I’m thinking the same thing. I would be, at least.
huh.
I think there’s a Mike in Ethan’s head too
I wonder if you could somehow get them to talk to each other like two Siris side by side…
There’s a little Mike in all of us (or at least our moms).
They’re still friends, it’s kinda hard to see, but you can tell Ethan still loves her, even behind that awful hair
Everyone grieves at their own pace.
But damnit, Ethan, there’s also such a thing as clinging onto your grief as a substitute for doing the work to move through it.
This is what I imagine Booster might say.
I personally cannot WAIT for the day Booster overreaches with an “analysis” and comes off like a presumptuous fool. That scene at the meeting however long ago pretty much means Booster’s right up there on the “DOA Jerk List”… for the record, far higher than current Ethan.
I mean, canonically it’s only been like, what, 3-4 months since he lost one of his best friends and (possible longtime) romantic interest? On top of everything else he’s had to put up with, why is that an unreasonable amount of time to still be a little impatient and snappy, especially after having spent winter break with his incredibly homophobic parents?
I think I just don’t like Amber. Did she really just come over to (try not to) talk to Ethan because she wanted to tell him that a guy he liked is dating the girl who took him hostage once upon a time? Really? Why? What possible reason could a friend have to think ‘oh hey, here’s two things that upset Ethan when they’re present in his life, let me make sure they stay stuck right up in there’?
Ambers not a likable person yet for some reason people seem to like her though I wonder how it would be actually meeting some of these people in real life
As someone who sympathizes with Amber, I don’t find her ‘likable’ – she’s so deeply depressed and self-destructive that she’s spent most of the strip engaged in an elaborate form of self-harm (becoming a vigilante seems to have been something she and AG agreed on before they made the divide stark, and staying up all night repeatedly, whether to starve her alter out or to perfect actually impossible speedrunning tech, is a bad idea. Her tendency to isolate? Also unhealthy. She’s actively tried to sabotage friendships because she’s convinced she can only be garbage. And of course, we have the Sal fight.) In reality, if I knew someone like her this well I’d probably try to encourage her to find help – therapy, an internet support group, SOMETHING – before eventually concluding I can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped and probably scale back interactions.
But in fiction? Different story. She’s not always likable, but she is UNDERSTANDABLE, and that makes her compelling. And as someone who’s had serious depressive episodes, I recognize that one of the things about mental illness is that we’re often not fun to be around. We lash out at people who love us because we don’t think we deserve it, we shut ourselves away, and I totally get the social anxiety aspects. This gets all the worse when you add trauma into the mix, and Amber was seriously traumatized BEFORE the semester from hell. So I sympathize with that, and want her to stop hating herself, and want Amber and AG to recognize that there isn’t a good alter/bad alter dichotomy, they’re both just PEOPLE and Amber has plenty of good traits just as AG stalked someone with violent intent for like, over a week, and that was fucked up.
Would I like to know Amber in reality? No. But do I enjoy reading about her and sympathize with her despite being a hot mess with a ton of bad coping mechanisms? Yes. I am a (dramatically less violent) hot mess with a ton of bad coping mechanisms. I’d like to think I’m still deserving of the chance to do better and have friends.
”and want Amber and AG to recognize that there isn’t a good alter/bad alter dichotomy, they’re both just PEOPLE”
This is perfect. Thank you.
(I also agree with the rest of your comment, but that was the part that stuck out to me. It’s so rare to see people talking about headmates like they’re actually people with nuance instead of tools for a job.)
Glad I resonated, but I can’t take all the credit – most of my knowledge of this stuff’s been absorbed from commenters who are systems, especially Cerberus’s takes during the Danny breakup/stalking period (which included a LOT of highlighting how AG as the golden one was displacing her negative traits onto Amber when she recognized they were in fact NEGATIVE behaviors.)
yeh
My favourite moment in It’s Walky!, in David Willis’ entire career as an artist, is when Dina accidentally locks herself in a room with a bomb that she threw in there and has just long enough to curse her incompetency before Walky and Mike burst into the room just long enough for her to apologize. My favourite character, the one who defines the series for me, is Sal, who had her parents exploded by the Head Alien because she pulled the “pft see if I care?” card and he recorded her saying it, and was seconds away from blowing up the entirety of North America and only got stopped by seeing Danny again, whereupon she kept trying to win him back and his own incompetence would have ruined what he had with Billie until someone else ruined his chance to do it, and then later Sal beat his girlfriend bloody and still gave it one last shot.
I don’t need these characters to be good, and I mean that morally and through their ability to achieve their goals, I need them to be people, and people are capable of ruinous failure.
How many webcomics do you read where you wonder the same thing?
Its fair to say that if somethings set in a recognizable reality where the setting is ‘slice of life’ (not sure if thats the correct term) I’ll wonder about it
I kinda thought everyone did
Honestly, not really, aside from when I see your comments on here. I really probably be friends with any of these characters in real life, but that doesn’t correspond to how much I like reading about them.
It’s certainly a perfectly reasonable thing to consider when a range of extreme personality types- and the readers’ reactions to them- are presented. Not sure why it’s being made out that this is particularly strange, honestly.
Well IRL, the chance I’d have been (university is much far, very past) friend with any of them is close to zero, bc of not sharing any center of interests. So not really.
I’d probably have shared a course only with Joyce but we haven’t seen any literature course.
Amber would be a difficult person to live with, but from a reader’s perspective her struggles are pretty easy to sympathize with
I think the situation is that it bothers her more than she wants to admit, but the number of people she can talk about it with are very limited
Oof. I hadn’t considered this.
I was assuming that Amber decided to reach out to Ethan to ask him how he’s doing and let him know that she still cares. That’s looking less likely now.
I have to agree, and I can’t blame Ethan for being at his wits end with her either. Frequently hurting others and then just wallowing in self-deprecation and acting like she’s just some irredeemable demon just to justify her own self-hatred (see lashing out at her mother for “loving monsters” like her)? You know the old saying “hurt people hurt people” and all but she’s on some emotional abuse tactics. Ethan’s probably been on the receiving end of that more than most, too..
Just look at the role models she’s had to work with. Stacy’s a doormat who buries anything even hinting at negativity as a defense mechanism, and Blaine was… well Blaine. Most everyone else is either a peer (the rest of the cast) or a fictional-to-her character (comic books).
Amber only knows how to internalize and compartmentalize emotions.
Sure, but none of that materially impacts situations like this one, where Ethan and Amber are interacting one-on-one. Ethan’s tired out and stressed; Amber’s here again vaguely presenting some (not-)crisis, and his role, as he well understands, is to deal with whatever she gives him. If we each stopped to account for every other person’s baggage and suffering when we interacted with them and made allowances, no-one would ever be even remotely unpleasant to another person.
It’s also worth pointing out that this is Ethan’s entire relationship with Amber. She has something wrong and instead of practically dealing with it, Ethan just coos over how she’s cool and smart and nice and there’s nothing wrong with her in the slightest.
He’s an enabler who’s taken control of her self-loathing, which then led Amber to take ownership of his suffering to fuel a suicidal death march involving two car chases where by the end she was hoping Sal was going to murder her.
Yup. He’s not just part of her emotional support system, for the longest time he was her emotional support system. That’s going to wear on anyone, especially when they’re expected to just stand idly by as the other person rejects help and spirals deeper and deeper into their own self-loathing.
I dunno, I feel like any enablement probably comes from Ethan feeling guilty about being gay and “ruining” their relationship and being unwilling to put his foot down around her or upset her. The guy is, after all, a mountain of insecurities and self-loathing himself; it’d make sense that he’d cling to Amber out of fear of not being able to find anybody else who shares his nerdiness. It can be really hard and even scary to call out the people you love, especially if they’ve proven to be volatile in the past
He’s always been like that per flashbacks to their childhood, and it tracks with his behaviour in Shortpacked. Per how he once put it to Danny, he wanted to protect her forever, but what ended up happening is that he became someone who held Amber to no standards, and thus Amber had to constantly, innately be someone without issues to justify to herself that she’s allowed to be friends with him. Come a crisis she runs to him for support and all he can think to say is glowing praise, because he can’t constructively criticize her or even let her feel bad for five minutes.
That sounds at best uncharitable and at worst just inaccurate but okay
Same, she’s incredibly irritating in universe and out and it’s making Ethan feel more reasonable here. I mean, i know depression and anxiety by design makes you self absorbed in ways (got both in my “collection”) but THIS is honestly just. The regular type of self absorbed and inconsiderate. She could have talked to Joe, or Dina, Dorothy would have made a damn good person to talk to.
Like, i sympathize with her and her struggles, of course i do I’m not made of stone. I want her to get better and be happy in life, i want good things for her! But she’s so incredibly frustrating to read because it seems like over the past decade she never makes ANY progress! Like, she’s not actively trying to self harm anymore, that’s good, but I’ve started my reread and otherwise it seems like she’s right back where she was in the beginning of not worse. And i hate seeing people who so desperately need help refuse to want it. Ethan is honestly the most relatable one here
I think my problem with Amber is that, every time she’s presented with a problem or conflict, her response is ‘find a maladaptive coping mechanism, turn it up to eleven, then break the knob off’. And then she stacks a new one on top when she has a new problem.
I think I got tired of waiting for her to make even one healthy choice or put a shred of effort into actually fixing/replacing all those broken knobs about five storylines ago. (Don’t call me on that number, I don’t know exactly when I started having zero patience for Amber, but it was a while ago.) Either way, her loop is just tired and I don’t like it and I don’t like her.
Ethan lasted a LOT longer than I did, while knowing Amber longer and at closer quarters than me. I think part of my defense of him in these past strips is a sense of kinship: he feels as done with Amber’s shit as I am, or close to it. He’s the only one in the cast whose reaction to Amber’s new broken knob at eleven being ‘oh god not again’.
Amber is of course a long term abuse victim with serious trauma dumped on top of that, in addition to linked serious untreated mental illness – in multiple variety.
Just since we’ve met her, not counting the flashbacks, she’s dealt with multiple seriously traumatic events still with no professional help.
Seems like she really should just handle all that better.
I don’t think she knows how. She either doesn’t go to therapy or doesn’t have good experiences with therapy.
ofc, going to therapy would be a start.
Also, 2 Carlas!
Of course she doesn’t know how. That’s the point.
Of course there was that one time she really needed therapy (after the gas station incident), but that would mean admitting a failing so Blaine put her in self-defense classes instead.
It’s frustrating and makes me sad, but Amber’s far from unique among this strip’s Consistently Poor Decisionmakers, especially because of trauma. (Becky. Honey. Please examine the fact that you don’t feel you can be negative and your insecurities about Joyce. Joyce. Sweetie. You have an anxiety disorder. Walky, your issues with studying could be because you never needed to learn how, but they could also be undiagnosed ADHD – or worse, your mom knew and denied it – and you should probably look into things. Dorothy, dear GOD, rest and socialization are not distractions from your goals, they are 100% necessary parts of your health regime and you will do better work when you incorporate them. Jennifer, you are in so much denial and the reinvention never works. Ruth… oh dear. All of you need competent trauma-informed therapy and I dearly wish you’d receive it.) So like, it’s frustrating because hers are among the most spectacularly maladaptive, because Amber was among the most traumatized after longterm abuse, but let’s be real NONE of them cope with their issues and trauma well, because the oldest main cast member is Ruth, who just turned 21 the other day. They’re all messes. I wish there hadn’t been such a major backslide for Amber over the timeskip (and a lesser but still noticeable one for Ruth,) but it makes sense with the amount of shit they’ve dealt with in a very short time – even with adequate mental healthcare, and it doesn’t sound like Amber got that, it takes years to consistently unlearn bad brain patterns. Especially when you’ve got REALLY deep-seated depression. Backslides are, unfortunately, very common along the way.
“talk to Ethan because she wanted to tell him that a guy he liked is dating the girl who took him hostage once upon a time? Really?”
No? She came to talk to Ethan because she need someone to talk about how the guy Amazi-Girl fall in love with is now dating the girl that is part of her trauma. This is someone seeking help and who has only one person to turn to. I really can’t blame her for that.
Danny and Ethan had only a crush for each other that never lead to any thing. It’s not something that can really hurt Ethan. and it’s okay to ask for help.
I really dig that Ethan is explicitly aware of his pattern, with how he supports Amber’s crises. Looks like he’s up to calling out their habit, but he also doesn’t really want to lose their pattern — he’s exasperated but he isn’t refusing to support her. It makes sense for him and I enjoy it.
I’m really not convinced he’s willing.
Granted, he could simply say “no” and close the door. He could also have ignored the very loud stomping in front of said door rather than talking to her in the first place….
But, personality-wise, he went from “doormat” to “not-quite-subtle passive-agressivity” and I’m not sure he changed to the point of being THAT direct towards somebody bothering him.
To me, him talking to Amber now reads more of a tired “let’s get this done and leave me alone [again. like every time I needed your support {except now I don’t even want it anymore}].”
It’d be best for Ethan to not have anything to do with anyone from the cast (apart from Jacob) for his own mental health
Yeah, isolation and shutting yourself off from others is definitely a cure for depression.
There’s a few thousand offscreen non-insane people he can interact with. :3
Unfortunately those people all have guns and access to Blue Magic.
What’s Blue Magic?
Magic which travels at near-relativistic speeds toward the recipient, clearly.
Blue Magic is “Skill Magic”.
Essentially they’re a character that sees a spell/attack from an enemy and can replicate it.
Magic you only get when you’re running behind in the kart race and the game’s random number generator takes pity on you.
The Blue Shell isn’t an equalizing item. It’s Masahiro Sakurai’s cognitive plague infecting the early Mario Kart team.
Blue Magic is the sexiest thing about the Final Fantasy series. Blue Mages copy attacks and spells from various monsters, and they’re always the coolest/hottest character in their respective game.
You mean like Mew (and MewTwo) from pokemon?
Does this make Ethan, like Cloud or something in this regard?
Not all others.
Mostly just the cast.
Good talk.
There’s a few thousand offscreen non-insane people he can interact with. :3
…this was meant to be a reply.
Non insane. Are they really?
“Is it about Sal or Danny?”
“Yes.”
People are saying Ethan’s acting out of place here, but honestly, I’ve had people in my life that also ever only came to me to vent about petty drama too, and that’s hard enough to grin and bear when you’re not also dealing with grieving your dead friend on top of it. Ethan’s being blunt, yeah, but he’s totally within his right to call Amber out for this.
I think this is similar to their conversion in the hospital. Guess they haven’t talked much since then
i know that Ethan is depressed and going through a tough time and that that’s very different from dressing dark and combing his bangs down as a gimmick, but every time i see him i still want to make a chris gaines joke.
sorry Ethan.
… Honestly, Amber has been in a hole for so long, from time to time she grabs a shovel and digs a little bit further. But. For once, I can say she and Ethan could be more or less in an horizontal relationship, instead of him doing his best to support her without getting much in return.
If they get to talk again, I mean.
(Also, Ethan taking a dive into the Depression Pool isn’t a good thing, of course. As fabulous as his hair looks.)
…. Ok, Agatha may be a sweetheart but she SO isn’t my style >>;; Grav Roulette, go go go!
GDI. Last try tonight!
Welcome to the Sal club.
Well, even digging a hole (oh how I HATE that phrase in this context) isn’t guaranteed to keep you away from people, because after enough digging you’re bound to find a super villain lair or UFO or lost civilization or sewer clown or SOMETHING that guarantees you’re not COMPLETELY alone.
As for Ethan’s goth / emo streak, he’s cute but at the cost of being a Mike substitute that’s as good as grade C vegan cheese.
If only the cure to what ailes him were as simple as a Snickers bar…
Wait, what context? Sorry ;A; It’s a turn of phrase I’ve used for myself, so…
Anyway. Yeah, considering Amber has been doing vigilantism as a coping mechanism that through the first semester was proven to be really bad for her health, I’d say the examples you gave might not be that far off (?) After all, “what doesn’t kill you makes you weirder” and all that.
There joke about Mike’s death leaving a shard of his Assholery taking root in a lot of the cast has been floated around before :’) So I’m not surprised Ethan got the biggest one. He’s the one who was the closest to him and I was looking forward to his appearance (though, at the pace DOA goes, it’s going to be like 2025 before he starts feeling a little better. Poor dude.)
Last strip, I pointed out that “go back in your hole” (what Ethan said to Amber) is a really condescending thing to say to introverts and socially challenged individuals such as myself, and I don’t think you were there? Anyway, I’m sure you don’t mean it that way; it’s but pure confidence that you happened to use that phrase.
Anyway, yeah Amber’s indulgence of speed-running and otherwise using games as a venue for Peak Human Perfection is definitely not a completely safe haven from strange things happening to her, some of which I may have demonstrated in this tastefully erotic pixel art.
People in general looking remarkably hotter with longer hair and/or depression is something I seem to recall from back in the day, when “hair” was still a thing in my life. Back in a different century. And another millennium. Gawd I’m ancient.
The today strip gave me mixed feelings.
One side, I complaing about the influence of toxic people in our lives. For a time ago, Mike’s gone, but still his stupid influence is happening between people like Ethan and Amber. Is sad that you can’t recover from shit people, even they pass away.
Other side, I’m suprised how Ethan could figure the relationship dynamic with Amber. He’s other person, tottally different of old Ethan.
I just don’t know what to say.
Ethan and Amber (and Walky) were thoroughly abused for a long time (Walky was abused for a shorter period of time but was no less abused during it). Despite the years-long campaign, or even because of it, they have lingering feelings of attachment for Mike. Maybe Amber and Ethan are just desperate for a feeling of familiarity or stability, the way an abused spouse stays with their abuser because it’s known and despite how terrible it is it’s still less scary than an unknown.
Basically I hope one day they realize what a garbage person Mike was and they only remember him as an example of what not to be.
Mike was also, from what we can tell, their only other friend besides each other, so it makes sense that they were attached – even as they started making new friends in college, Mike was the friend they knew for years, and he didn’t have the baggage of dating each other, breaking up in a really messy fashion, and the fraying of Amber and Ethan’s friendship that had started before they reached college. Mike was the ‘safe’ friend, even if neither of them trusted him really.
I think Walky might have more complicated feelings than lingering attachment, personally. My bet is Mike’s the first kid Walky’s ever known who died, especially in such a traumatic fashion, and he obviously knows he ‘should’ miss Mike because his roommate died and that’s sad, right? He was one of Amber’s best friends who died saving her! He should be sad about that! And there’s probably some grief there, along with the shock and trauma he’s trying to avoid (because Walky very much is an ‘avoid acknowledging the trauma’ type.) But I think what’s also there, and maybe the most prominent emotion, is actually relief that he will never have to deal with Mike again. (And/or disbelief because someone his age can’t die and Mike did enough elaborate fakeouts he can’t totally trust this is for real.) And he can’t express that, both because Walky tries to avoid these sorts of emotions and because he’s not ‘supposed to’ be relieved Mike is dead. Mike died a hero, Mike saved Amber, Mike was just a kid like him who was killed by a mobster supervillain, and Mike wasn’t anywhere near as bad as Blaine or Ross who it’s ‘okay’ not to grieve. (I also think Walky’s not willing to recognize Mike was abusive, because once he starts acknowledging you don’t have to be physically hitting someone or kidnapping them at gunpoint to be abusive he might have to start admitting to himself that his mom isn’t just ‘not a great parent.’ I wouldn’t be shocked if Ethan has a similar thought process on that front, and if Amber doesn’t think she can make the comparison because at least he wasn’t Blaine.)
Grief is the emotional response resulting from the loss of something significant. It is a natural healing process. It’s not bad. It’s not something we “get over” quickly and there’s no right way to do it. It’s messy and complicated and very personal. Distraction, crying, laughing, getting sick, lashing out, and feeling numb are all common ways to respond, but there are PLENTY more. Some recover quickly. Some have it trigger something within and develop anxiety or depression.
Acute grief occurs in the first few months to the first year after a loss and causes intense symptoms of shock, sadness, distress, guilt, anger, disbelief, emotional pain, yearning, relief, irritability, apathy, anxiety, sleep trouble, appetite issues, forgetfulness, and/or poor concentration (and many more), but symptoms normally diminish over time. Sometimes, acute grief doesn’t go away within a year and can even get worse at times. This is called complicated grief. It’s like being stuck in a heightened state of mourning that can last for YEARS, keeping the person from healing. About 5-20% of people develop complicated grief, the percentage depending on the age and culture of the person (most studies put the general population numbers at 7-10%). Seeing a therapist who is trained in grief counseling reduces the risks of developing complicated grief, can help guide someone through acute grief and avoid unhealthy coping mechanisms, and helps the people who have complicated grief work through it and get to a better mental place.
When someone moves past the most intense symptoms of acute/complicated grief, they enter the lifelong stage of integrated grief. This is when someone has accepted the loss, has learned to cope with the feelings surrounding the loss, and has gone back to living their life. They might still miss what was lost or feel pain over a memory, but the thoughts and memories are no longer preoccupying or disabling. Occasionally, a triggering event (such as a holiday or item of importance) can cause a period of acute grief. This is common and not a sign of failure or of doing something “wrong.” It’s perfectly normal.
If you ever feel concerned, see your doctor. It’s what they’re there for. And if they make you feel bad or unheard? Well, second opinions exist for a reason.
So WHY exactly did I go into so much detail on grief? To tell you that how they are reacting currently is EXTREMELY normal. Amber and Ethan lost someone they have been friends with since grade school just two or three months ago (time skip was mid October to mid January). They are still deep in the acute phase of grief and coping as best as they can with the tools that they possess. While I would want them both to see a professional because of their risk factors and to keep them from relying on unhealthy coping techniques, their feelings and reactions are valid. Again, acute grief. So don’t be too hard on the kids.
Becky is also still feeling acute grief over her mother and possibly her father. Joyce is going through acute grief from multiple things at the same time (probably also some acute grief and mixed feelings over Ross too). Grief happens when you lose something significant. Her relationships (like her parents, friends, congregation… including those that have just changed instead of ended), religion, worldview, church, and vision for her future were all significant to her (and some to Becky as well). Their loss has an impact.
Tldr; They all need therapy. Grief is normal. Mike has been dead less than 3 months, let the boy be a grumpy goth for a while. Also, THERAPY. God do these children need therapy. They need to hand that shit out like Roz handing out condoms; give everybody some and occasionally throw everything you got at someone who looks like they could use it.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2011/comic/book-1/04-the-bechdel-test/late/
I recognize that they NEED therapy, but having qualified adults sort out the problems would take away from the narrative of the comic. A story centered on young people only works if the adults are massively unqualified to offer meaningful support.
I hope the ebb and flow of the story lets these kids start rebuilding soon. They’ve lost so much over the course of the comic so far, they need it.
Upvote.
Seconding the upvote.
Now yall are just trying to make me feel joy over the fact that my opinion and research was valued by others aren’t you?
So Amber IS shocked by Sal and Danny’s relationship! For me, this is reality unexpected. But if this is able to motivated her to talk again with her oldest friend, HOORAY!
He’s been a major part of Amber’s emotional support system for years.
And it kinda seems like when he needed that support, she’s kinda retreated into herself. Again.
He’s definitely acting like a jerk here, but also… he’s been signaling he doesn’t want her there.
But it also seems like he has no other healthy… “healthy” relationships to help him through this sooooooooooo.
I don’t know.
Well that wasn’t supposed to be a reply.
Sorry!
Hmmm… is he being a jerk, really? Kinda feels more like he is suffering from serious depression and Amber and he are both showing increased signs of mental health problem. I would hope they knew better how to lean on each other, but I am still disappointed that Amber, who has acknowledged mental health issues for over a decade at this point, would be helping her alleged best friend learn coping mechanisms …. nvm, she’d assume any help she offers would make it worse. I hear it now that I say it
These two. I am sad about them.
What if the whole point of this overarching Mike story, is all Willis trying to show how depression and rudeness often go hand in hand, so be nice to EEEEEVERYOOOOONNNE…!!!
(I’ve always loved Mike, btw. I hope he is somehow literarily commemorated like that…)
I don’t know what’s worse, that they keep gravitating together regardless of how much they (dis)like each other or that they’re right even in their angst
…sal and Danny? Or Amber and Ethan??
Amber and Ethan
Big fan of this new dynamic between these two
Ethan looks like he joinedva kpop group.
I hate how everyone just accepts Amber’s declining mental health as run-of-the-mill and perfectly fine. They’re even friends with her delusional superhero persona. Hope she gets the help she needs soon.
You better sit down, Gothan.
Comment 1: I was really hoping Amber was about to say that Ethan’s obvious depression/PTSD/mental-health-thing was the crisis to validate, but okay…
Comment 2: Ethan is realizing in this post-Mike ness that Amber (&Joyce, it’s been an established thing) tends to hang out with Ethan because they NEED him, while by contrast Mike hung out with Ethan because he WANTED him.
(…Or worse, that Mike also needed him, but that this time Ethan failed.
That sounds more like Amber thinking, while evaluating self worth via the actions of others is very Ethan.)
*wanted TO… English subtlety is subtle
I really don’t think that’s fair. I just read through some Joyce and Ethan strips and it seems well-established that they hang out off-screen (like eating lunch together) and she takes interest in the things he’s interested in (like remembering his action figure rotation). Joyce did need Ethan to escape her lust and to walk across campus, but she also hung out with him outside of those contexts and they had lots of hangouts that Ethan enjoyed.
In contrast, Ethan and Amber haven’t really hung out since before college, which he spent a lot of time trying to change and never really succeeded at. Amber even told him she didn’t have the bandwidth to hang out with him specifically for a while.
It’s not the direction we’re going, but Amber and Ethan pulling a Reggie and Betty to Danny and Sal`s Archie and Veronica would be hilarious.
I really hope the character dynamic didn’t change after I was a young teen or that will be a complete non sequitur.
And now Ethan thinks, if only for a moment, that Amber banged Sal.
Ethan is amusingly re-evaluating all of the relationships he had before and realizing how much his friends used him. Ethan no longer is going to indulge Amber’s desire to use him as an emotional pillow. Which is not great because she needs friends but how much of their relationship was Amber being there for him?
This is awkward because it was mostly off-stage and we haven’t had real flashbacks to it, but it’s explicitly stated early on that Amber spent most of the summer playing emotional support after Ethan came out during their prom date. Though of course we do see the earlier flashbacks where he is supporting her.
She took some distance after that at the start of the semester and then more trauma happened and everything got worse. I don’t even really think she used him as an emotional pillow much. She mostly hid and buried it. He’d come to try and drag her out of the hole, but her seeking him out for support seemed pretty rare.
Amber was sneaky. Instead of coming to Ethan with her problems, she made him come to her by being so visibly dysfunctional that anyone with an ounce of sympathy for her could not help to try to fix the problem, only to then vent her self-loathing by telling them she was a waste of their time.
Man is this what Spencer feels like?
Except i don’t have the energy or braincells to write paragraphs about why Ethan’s right here
Jennifer’s new RA hasn’t had enough screen time for us to know her well enough to answer that question yet.
The trick is to love the sound of your own voice as much as I do.
Okay so i have been playing stardew valley a lot and i cannot unsee anymore the fact that ethan turned into sebastian XD
In a twist, not ETHAN is the one with a motorcycle.
*now
WTF is Ethan’s problem? What am I missing?
Ethan is grieving Mike’s death and Amber basically shut him out for the past month. He’s also taking note that Danny highlighted a lot of his friends used him as an emotional pillow but weren’t there for him when HE needed it.
Danny avoided him
Amber avoided him
They have their reasons but Ethan is just noticing everyone giving him a wide birth.
Alternatively, he’s wearing the Raimi version of the Venom symbiote.
ethan reemerges looking like he’s seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion
Grav roulette here so i don’t clog up today’s comment section
Sorry booster, i want a lass
…not you.
Oh come on
tagging onto this gravroulette rather than continuing to stink up today’s comments.
boop
It really wants me to be sarah though
Honestly maybe I’m just too picky.
I’m definitely too picky.
okay this’ll do
tester