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Oh, absolutely. Had this happen to me and my best friend in high school, and it almost wrecked our friendship. (The fact that we later got together is definitely *in spite of*, and not because of, the weirdos harassing us about how they shipped us.)
so, when Husband and I got together, we were initially just hanging out as per usual, but more so, and once we made it “official” that we were an item, one of our friends was all, “I KNEW IT I KNEW YOU TWO WERE TOGETHER!” and I was all (jestingly) “OMG YOU SNEAKY BONGO”*
*not actually bongo, but I don’t like “jesting” about that word anymore
It definitely is, but her doubling down on it makes me think she’s trying to kind of playfully push his buttons as per their usual dynamic, but, yeah, obviously Ethan is understandably not in the mood.
Yeah, I also feel like she’s trying to get him to talk to her here (which makes it… less bad, potentially?). I was just commenting on real-person shipping in general, lol
A little of column A, a little of column B. Amber can be both trying to get Ethan to talk to her AND be horribly, socially awkward and borderline inappropriate! In fact I’d expect nothing less.
In high school a lot of my friends thought me and my friend would make a cute couple. I didn’t see it and neither did she. Legitimately I look back on that and I’m baffled anyone thought we’d be good together. I barely even get why we were friends. We had NO chemistry haha.
Don’t beat yourself up. Love and hate are both powerful emotions. Seems you picked up that something interesting would happen, and I’d guess they both knew you weren’t malicious in wanting to see them happy.
See, the funny thing is that rules like these definitely exist, and also just as definitely have exceptions. Friends don’t insult each other, unless it’s a friend group that likes doing that. Friends don’t mock each other’s insecurities, unless it’s a friend group that finds comfort in others doing so as a way to take power away from them.
There are of course just as many toxic friend groups that take these things and hurt people with them but my intent is to point out that there is always a group of friends who definitely do things that friends just don’t do to each other. The point of saying that? Just a matter of individuals.
Ultimately your point still largely stands. Just with an asterisk.
Don’t ship your friends.*
*unless you and your friends have talked about it and find it funny, amusing, or genuinely thought provoking.
But that’s kind of the default that all friend groups should operate on for everything and often don’t ever do.
-Autistic who takes detailed notes about social interactions
TBH it’d be better if she just erased the parts of her shipping chart that involved real people. Real in this case being a relative term, but given that she’s not breaking the fourth wall we can at least agree on real meaning the same scope of reality as her.
There wasn’t really much there to know. Two guys thought about maybe kissing each other once upon a time isn’t really anything worth telling. People think about doing stuff all the time. Also they both mutually decided not to kiss each other because that might’ve hurt Amber which apparently was a stupid thought to have but ultimately worked out for the best…or worst. I don’t know.
I just went back to check since I didn’t really comment yesterday and didn’t see you getting a second roll then, so unless I missed something: VICTORYYYYYYYYY! Congrats!
oh dang did Amber not know
She knew Ethan and Mike were banging/had banged
This may shed some light… did anyone know Ethan was into both of them? Pretty sure Danny didn’t know
Jacob, I think. He saw them first vow to “never ever happen” and then when Ethan was sleeping around brought Danny up, whereupon Ethan commented that Danny was too good for him.
I think Dina also knew, and maybe a few others. This was specifically kept from Amber, though. Danny getting over his “bi angst” and deciding to try to ask Ethan out is where their friendship went horribly wrong (because Danny said a bunch of insensitive things instead).
Danny got over his bi angst long before he tried asking Ethan out, and Dina knows Danny is bi but I don’t think she knows or cares about Ethan and Danny’s crushing on each other.
I’ll have to hunt down the page where Danny and Dina talk about it being an “open secret.” I thought it involved Danny and Ethan sitting on the floor and Dina basically referencing the attraction between the two.
It seems that, before Danny and Ethan got into that argument when Mike was still in a coma, both of them successfully kept Amber from knowing that they were attracted to each other.
History lesson: early Muzak systems–and the competing Seeburg systems–used proprietary vinyl records that ran at 16 rpm and had special superthin needles that wouldn’t work with LPs or singles (so pranksters couldn’t just switch the records and up the speed). These were in use from the Fifties to the Eighties and got replaced by cassettes for a while and then went satellite in the Nineties. Now You Know.
I know these two have a long-established relationship where Amber’s commentary to this effect is something Ethan has, at the very least, not indicated he’s opposed to. In writing the next part it’s not really about Amber, because Amber’s only engaging with it on a micro level where her recipient hasn’t indicated to her it’s a problem and she’s never been indicated to act on it elsewhere.
But, on a macro level, gosh do I wish I could chuck every straight girl who acts like this to real queer dudes into a fucking volcano.
I definitely read it also as ‘Amber joking, mostly at her own expense, to try and move the conversation in some different direction,’ but agreed that the macro issue is very much an issue and sucks while acknowledging Amber was didn’t realize Ethan in specific wasn’t here for this.
I don’t think Amber’s joking in the sense that she does not sexually fantasize about Ethan and Mike touching their bits together and vocalizes that to Ethan, but it’s not really a beef for me in that Amber’s not engaging in the same level of “queer men exist for my indulgence” where it’s an active, constant miasma. It’s an acceptable behaviour for her within the boundary that she and Ethan have established, the way Billie and Ruth moved on from beating each other up and then making out to the two actions blending in together eventually.
I think this is a other reason why i never really liked amber (doa flavor at least). I absolutely despise fujoshi, especially when they bring it into real life. Queer people aren’t your fetish, and it’s so much worse when people bring their friends into it. Even if Ethan seemed cool with it, it’s just representative of a very ugly face of fangirl culture that makes me mad uncomfortable.
Yes this also applies to straight dudes who fetishize lesbians and that one ex who definitely fetishized my bisexuality and saw me as a doorway to a threesome.
It is, but I do think it’s worth compartmentalizing between macro-scale behaviour and micro-scale.
It’s a thing where Amber and Ethan act like this and are comfortable, but if she ran up to Danny and did it that’d be deeply wrong, because at that point it’s not about engaging in something she’s checked with Ethan first, she’d be treating Danny’s bisexuality as a gateway to sexy fujo fun time.
Like, a girl doing this over fictional characters don’t mean anything to me, a girl doing it to actual dudes is super effed, but a girl who does it to a dude for only as long as he’s comfortable I think of as engaging in that terrible thing, but in a way where the harm is averted. To me, it’s macro-scale behaviour when a straight girl treats queer men as a fetish to indulge, but I think it stops being that macro-scale behaviour when Amber does it exclusively to one guy who we’ve established isn’t opposed to her acting like this.
I did this a little when I was young ( and long ago realized it was gross, and have stopped). For me, I think it was a bit about being just so excited to see other people being openly queer and having all these feelings bubbling up I didn’t know how to appropriately categorize or contain. Now that I am also openly queer, I still kind of get heart eyes at any random person being defiantly queer in public, but not in a shippy way, and I do my best to lock it down. One of these days, I hope to get to the point of finding queer strangers going about their lives just as boring and unremarkable as the cishet ones, because I know we really are, and I GET why othering is bad, but I will miss that little spark of joy.
I know it’s obvious but I do really appreciate the darkness of Ethan’s background reflecting his now dark nature and cynicism, it’s a nice artistic touch. Also probably saves time on illustration.
also the fact that his room is literally dark, which is a bit concerning. Was he still sleeping? It’s got to be at least 11am. …OK maybe it’s not that concerning.
I dunno, I’d say that went about as well as it was gonna. Ethan is exercising superhuman prowess in shutting down Amber’s stupid slashfic thing so quickly.
Challenge: name ONE THING Ethan could have said which would have shut down that train of thought. Then reread what you just typed and realize that it would actually have sent her slashficcy brain further into overdrive.
Maybe a convincing denial of there being anything “jilted lover”-like about his reaction to Danny?
Because that’s the actual point here. Amber realizing the signs of his old crush on Danny is what Ethan’s reacting to, not anything about the slashfic side of things.
Like, yes, he has plenty of reasons to not really want to talk to the main cast right now, but he did also make other friends after Mike made him, well, feel desirable. I sort of hoped he’d been spending time with them, but it doesn’t seem like it.
Hope he’s not being totally icy with Jacob, at least.
Maybe he does spend time with them. We just wouldn’t see it because frankly if they ain’t on the cast page they’re losers who don’t have anything interesting going on that we’d want to see. No one’s asking about what Finger guns guy Eric is doing.
Given the clear signs of depression – lost a significant amount of weight, bags under his eyes and missing cheek blushes, and the long hair very much looks to me like a depression (lack of) haircut – I suspect that yeah, he’s isolating the same way Amber is, not just not interacting with the main cast. We did see him in the lounge, but he wasn’t interacting with anyone, not just cold shouldering Danny. He was just there, and for all we know he was sexiled the same way Danny was because Jacob’s got a new date buddy. We haven’t seen much of him yet to observe, but what we can see definitely looks like someone who really can’t muster up the caring necessary to take basic care of himself, which tends to mean avoiding people who’d ask questions like ‘have you eaten yet today?’ At least as much as can be done with a roommate. Compare him in both scenes so far to Dana in the flashbacks – she’s clearly masking around friends, where he made no effort whatsoever in the lounge. That suggests there aren’t a lot of people checking in on him he needs to seem something resembling okay for.
Starting to get the feeling Wthan is just mad at the world at this point not just Amber. Starts to make me wonder how spending time with family was like for him during the holidays with him grieving over Mike with his disapproving mother in the same room.
Shipping actual people is creepy, shipping actual people you know personally is even creepier, doing it when one has made it clear to you they want nothing to do with the other, well I’m not sure that makes it creepier but definitely more awkward for the person involved
I guess what I’m trying to say is cut that out Amber
– I legit make a caveat of “RPF is alright as long as you’re
1) AWARE IT’S NOT REAL
2) Never ever shoving it on people’s faces, because THAT’s the creepy part, not the imagining stuff about the public persona of some artist you’re never meeting anyway
But Amber writes stuff about her friends and she tells them about it :’) She may not be straight (Shortpacked!Amber wasn’t, and this one has given #vibes), but that’s still yikes. Now, the thing is… She’s missing a bigass piece of the puzzle.
I don’t think she would’ve made this joke if she’d known. It’s incredibly likely she’ll add this to the tally of her sins. Meanwhile I’m sure Ethan isn’t having a meaningful relationship with anyone. Jury’s still out on casual sex (I’m leaning not), but oh god I’d wager cold hard cash he’s pushed everyone away because #pain.
I don’t have a problem with shipping people IRL, though it’s definitely not a good idea to tell those people that you ship them, especially if you know them personally.
Altered Ethan is standing in front of you with Grief and Loss tagging him like graffiti artists all over his face and you don’t see it. Amber, I know you’re socially on a different frequency but tune in for him.
I’m reminded of Tina Belcher’s erotic friend fiction. But at least she seems to understand it’s fantasy and doesn’t make her friends uncomfortable about it.
I also have to say that I’ve been on both sides of a situation where someone thinks joking or sort-of flirting wasn’t going too far, and it turned out that it actually WAS. *cringing* I know how awkward that can be for everyone. While I flatter myself that I’m a lot more stable than Amber, I too have serious trouble reading social cues and nuances. (I’m neurotypical, BTW. Just clueless.)
Maybe I’m biased because i like her character, but Tina was pushed to it by Tammy (who was threatening her) and I feel it was done in such an “innocent” (is that the right word?) way that no one was seriously upset. Confused, definitely! Plus Tina’s erotic friend fiction, as far as the show tells us, pretty much focuses on touching butts and maybe kissing a little. While I’m not trying to throw any shade on Amber here, she does come off as leering a wee bit.
it wasn’t just that tammy had threatened to do it anyway; her mother had directly encouraged her to read it to everyone. for someone with… limited understanding of social nuance, that’s a lot of reason to assume it’s okay.
but also tina is a cartoon character in a show where everyone is delightfully awkward and the tone is much less serious than this comic so actions can be taken differently.
I actually thought I might be neurodivergent for quite a while, and talked to some experts, and it turns out I’m not.
I’m just nerdy and clueless. I guess I’ve spent so much of my life with my head stuck in books that I never really learned some of the unspoken codes that seem to lead to popularity. I mean, I understand how to behave professionally with my colleagues and my students. But when it comes to social situations, I often land up with a terminal case of foot-in-mouth disease.
I still wish I had more friends, but I have a great family and a wonderful partner who really understands me, so I can’t complain. Plus I feel like the middle of a pandemic isn’t the best time to address my lack of social savvy; I’ve been in quarantine or semi-quarantine for (counting) for a year and a half now, so I’m eventually (crossed fingers) going to have to re-learn even things like negotiating talking to salepeople!
Yeah I’ve known for quite a while now that I have social anxiety disorder and vocal dysphoria — only recently did I realize that I counted as neurodivergent and am just realizing how much these things impact me.
Like, I might find myself interacting in-person with clerks at a grocery store or whatever, and even friends, but my anxieties exponentially compound and put a limit on these interactions (don’t even ask me about eye contact).
jaime, what you say resonates with me a lot, so i just want to chime in for a sec to say that when it comes to diagnosing neurodivergencies, especially in anybody who isn’t a straight white boy, experts can be and often are wrong in that many adults, women, queer ppl, poc who are neurodivergent don’t get a diagnosis or have to try multiple times to have their experiences recognised. i don’t know you ofc and don’t know what it means to you that experts told you you’re neurotypical, but if it has lead to any self-doubt, or self-loathing bc you still feel clueless and overwhelmed, pls know that they might just be wrong. if your gut tells you that social interactions are harder for you than for others and that you perceive or process things differently from people around you, you are probably right.
I’ll be real, I don’t actually think Amber was suggesting real slash-fic fantasies were going on in her head, I think it was just playful banter. Because she’s trying to lighten the mood that’d been pretty dark this whole conversation. Because what she wanted when coming over was a sense of normalcy, and potentially reassurance that everything is fine and they’re still friends.
And she’s coming to the realization at the end of this strip that no, Ethan just fucking hates her (and Danny, and is unhappy in general).
Yeah, I don’t think she meant it seriously so much as ‘haha, lighten the mood with a dig at my expense, everything’s kinda resembling okay, right?’ Kinda like the ‘I think everyone should kiss’ earlier, come to that. Seems like an attempt at deflection… but Ethan’s not playing along.
It was serious-ish, but the serious part was recognizing Ethan was reacting like a jilted lover, with the slashfic part being a jokey way of letting Ethan tell her she’s wrong. Which he doesn’t play along with because she’s not wrong. His crush on Danny was part of why it was so bad.
Seems like a lot of people are just jumping on their reasonable dislike Amber’s slashficcing of real people and ignoring why it came up in the strip.
I don’t think Ethan hates her, necessarily. He said it outright: Amber only shows up when she wants to dump her issues on him. Not specifically said is that he doesn’t currently have any spoons to give her and is very tired of their dynamic anyway.
And it’s hard for me to argue with him regarding the actually-made statement, honestly. Despite saying ‘there’s no crisis!’ the only thing Amber seems to have actually wanted here was for Ethan to be disturbed by her Danny/Sal news and thus validate her being disturbed by it? With a side of… sex-based banter? Utterly absent, whatever she wanted from this, is any actual concern or thought for Ethan or actual interest in him, his feelings, or his situation. Amber’s interest is all Amber.
Which is honestly fine: Amber’s got a ton of stuff on her mental/emotional plate and by her (current) nature only ever adds to that plate, nothing ever comes off the overloaded plate. She doesn’t have much, if any, ability to offer spoons to other people at the best of times, even if/when she might want to.
Ethan acknowledges that he can’t give Amber what she wants from him, and knows that she can’t (or won’t, in an uncharitable mode) offer him anything he might want from her. Hence: goodbye, Amber.
Fickle and shallow for… not instantly and enthusiastically falling in line with Amber’s little interaction set piece? Which is itself, as others have commented, from at least a certain perspective kiiiiiind of problematic? Nah. Amber- as usual- a) can’t or won’t read the room; b) is using Ethan as a prop; c) has dropped her issues in his lap yet again expecting him to jump to it and get with the solutions/ sympathizing. Seems like he’s not in the mood.
Ethan got mad his lover rightfully called out his former lover for being an unrepentant abusive asshole and now has neither and is mad at everyone else but himself for the position he is in
Right after being kidnapped and having witnessed a murder, cant forget that Ethans suffering compound trauma, lets stop acting like Danny gets a pass on saying something shitty, uncompassionate and ill timed just because its true.
Tell ya what, let’s have someone who does not know you from Adam but decides to dedicate the first six months of knowing you to being just the most mentally abusive prick possible and then while that’s going on the person you’re crushing on and semi-dating takes every opportunity to stick up with said asshole. I’ll page you for your halo if you don’t have some sense of relief that person could be out of your life for a time being.
Even more than that, the abusive prick is even worse to the guy you’re crushing on (and your ex-girlfriend).
If you read back to Danny’s interaction with Mike at the party, it’s pretty clearly Ethan he thinks will be better with Mike gone for “a while”.
I’ll be relieved but maybe not bring MY feelings into the issue right then and there when its not about ME but the victimof their behavior suffering multiple traumas and we are literally in the hospital with the guys family.
Never said Danny wasnt wrong, just that what he said was being a dick
While that former lover and old friend was in a coma and later died.
No matter how true the things were Danny said about Mike they did not need to be said at that moment, not to Ethan.
Thank you! Sometimes it doesn’t matter about you being RIGHT, it’s about NOT BEING AN ARSE ! “You’re not wrong*insert name* you’re just an arsehole”
I think my friends parents suck, they’re very homophobic and overbearing but my friend LOVES his parents, when his dad was in the hospital with Covid I didn’t go to the hospital and say “Well your dad deserves to suffer cuz he sucks” I told my friend worried about his Dad “I’m sorry your dad is sick, let me know if you need anything”
Cuz how *I* felt about his parents didn’t matter to me nearly as much as how *My friend felt* in that moment.
In an emotional time, Danny said some things he really shouldn’t have said and which could be easily construed as “I hope Mike never wakes up.” It seems like Danny has since been avoiding Ethan and never followed up with an (depending on timing) “I hope your friend recovers” or “I’m sorry your friend died.”
I don’t think “who is correct” and “what are the coded meanings of the statements they said” are as relevant as “is Danny supporting his grieving friend” and “does Ethan feel betrayed.”
Ethan feeling like Danny betrayed him is not the same as Ethan being angry at everyone else for not having Danny as a lover. Also, suggesting Ethan is responsible for his position of not having Mike as a lover? Not cool. Mike died, and that is not Ethan’s fault in any way.
Shoving the joke, I think. Amber wants Ethan to engage with her, but doesn’t have anything in her toolset beyond ‘here’s a thing that disturbs me, Amber, let’s dig into that’ or ‘tease Ethan about boys’, two forms of ‘here are my feelings, please handle them’.
Ethan doesn’t have enough spoons for his own feelings, he can’t also handle hers. Reading Amber charitably here, she knows things are bad with Ethan, she wants to help, but she doesn’t have anything helpful in her available range. She’s just trying everything she actually does have, in hope of getting some response.
Realizing there was something between Ethan and Danny (at least on Ethan’s part, I don’t think she knows Danny’s bi, so she could just be reading it as a one-sided crush) and using her well-established and long accepted by Ethan slash habit as a jokey way to let Ethan deny it.
I do hope at least Jacob is checking in on him. He seems to have isolated himself and he’s lost a lot of weight. Ambers not the right person but i hope he’s not completely alone
Insanity plea? ‘Cause she’s seeing and hearing a former friend that isn’t there, on top of Amazi-Girl being a split personality of hers, yet has no time to turn to a trained professional for help with this…Make it all Ethan’s problem? Suuuurrre…What else is he good for?
Okay so this woman hosts a halloween party for her coworkers, but its themed after emotions, the first woman shows up and she’s covered in pink feathers and wearing a pink tutu, the host asks “ What are you?” “ Tickled pink!”
Next a man wearing a blue suit and an umbrella comes and says he’s feeling a lil blue.
Finally two men show up, both naked, ones got his weiner through a pear and the others is submerged in a eclair.
“ What the hell!?” Goes the host “ Thats not an emotion!!”
“ What do you mean?” Peardong said “ I’m deep in dis pear and he’s fkin dis custard!”
Also find it weird Ethan says something dickish and people are all about calling him a horrid, shallow prick that needs to get over himself, and the people that normally outcry about you saying anything less than glowing about Becky is Homophobic… say nothing.
I was limiting myself to the main cast; if we’re going beyond that, then there’s a bunch of options. Marcie and Asma, for example, immediately come to mind.
Intellectually I recognize the parallels. Sentiment-wise, Joyce is dealing with the effective loss of her whole family, faith, community as well as a friend-group that turned on her the second she tried to find catharsis without them.
Ethan is dealing with the loss of Mike. Mike was a childhood friend of his and sometimes lover, yes. But it’s MIKE. Mike, a man so toxic, unlikable and dead inside that he would probably bully Ethan for mourning him.
Even Ethan’s supporters have to admit they’re sort of forcing themselves to understand his sense of loss.
What the fuck, no?
It doesn’t matter who it was, losing someone close to you can fucking destroy you. Not to mention the complications of him dying in a heroic act which can mess with how you feel about someone, and the fact that he was only 18 which is a terrifying wake up call that, no you’re not invincible because you’re young. Ethan’s probably thinking something like “he was barely an adult, he had time to change but now he’ll never get to”.
Not to mention the inherently upsetting fact of his last words to his childhood friend, probable first crush and the guy he lost his virginity to (a useless social construct but something important to people nonetheless) being annoyed and dismissive.
Hate mike all you want but to say you would have to force yourself to understand the grief of someone close to him? No, i don’t have to do that actually, it’s incredibly easy.
Danny: who blurted out something he knew at the time he shouldn’t have said, before Mike died and very likely without any concept that death was even a possibility.
In nearly any other context, some time apart from the abusive asshole would be a good thing, even if the victim couldn’t see it.
I didn’t mean if Ethan was a real life person. I’m talking about as a spectator and my emotional reaction to the goings-on. Our behavior and reactions to fictional characters are necessarily psychopathic. I’m not a bad person for saying I found Scar more compelling than Simba in The Lion King, or rooting for Walter White for much of Breaking Bad, even though both have literally killed people. I’m not a bad person for saying that Ethan’s angst, while understandable, feels like a frustrating development. Ethan is entitled to his sorrow, but objectively Mike isn’t worth it.
I believe Willis even said something once to the effect of “you know how many commenters think Danny is just Absolutely The Worst and Can Do No Right? That’s how his parents see him in the comic.”
Last time they made sure he got a therapist. After the shop thing. I think. Not 100% sure, not completely awake yet, but I think I remember ethan saying something like that. So there’s a chance, they did the right thing again.
Ethan’s situation is not healthy but no one wants to actually just let him grieve. They just want him to perk up and be nice. It’d be nice if they could just talk to him and let him be angry, depressed, or negative. He’s not a Jedi. He can afford to be dark and work through his emotions if people will let him and be there for him.
This is why I want Ethan and Joyce in story together again. I think maybe Ethan’s current deal would speak to Joyce’s current deal, and re-connect her to that girl who loved her friends more than alleged God’s alleged rule book anyway. Which could in turn help Ethan: that Joyce level of love and fierce support .
Hate to say it but you’re on the fuckin money Phipps. It’s been a noted phenomenon that people love characters who are fresh in their trauma and act like vulnerable, soft spoken, fragile little chicks that need to be protected. But when a character isn’t being like that, when they show the uglier sides of it, being depressed and not in the pretty “uwu I’m so sad someone be my savior” way, lashing out, being angry at the world- that’s the unacceptable kind of trauma. They’re being mean >:( so they don’t deserve sympathy. They should just shut the fuck up.
No I’m not immune to this just because I’m aware of it, yes I’m a hypocrite, everyone in the world is. I AM changing my opinions on Joyce okay?
(Also pointing one of the many reasons the Jedi suck but that’s a different rant)
Because it is Ethan, this deserves a Batman quote: Not a lot of people know what it feels like to be angry, in your bones. I mean, they understand, foster parents, everybody understands, for awhile. Then they want the angry little kid to do something he knows he can’t do, move on. So after awhile they stop understanding. They send the angry kid to a boys home. I figured it out too late. You gotta learn to hide the anger, practice smiling in the mirror. It’s like putting on a mask.
They only care if there are sadboi feels, but I also feel like people are HEAVILY critical of Ethan because they see the long hair, saggy clothes and just go “Ugh EMO KID” and don’t realize that’s severe self neglect…
He’s not eating, not cutting his hair, wearing dull colors, and barely emoting.
*guys someone call that boy a help line *please* *
If I remember right when Mike was dying Danny came to him and started firing off about what an awful person Mike was. He was not wrong but HO BOY did he chose a bad timing.
He expected kindness and sympathy from Danny when Mike was in the hospital, not a criticism of Mike’s character. When you’re in a bad place and grasping for a lifeline, someone who disagrees with you in such a personal way becomes the ultimate betrayer.
Saying you don’t think it’s that bad if someone’s in a non medical enduced coma’s not that great either, since typically the longer you are in a coma the least likely it is that you wake up, and if you DO you might be suffering quite a lot of brain damage…
Yeah, but how common is that knowledge? Even in this comments section most of the commenters thought Mike’d wake up until it was revealed a little while after the timeskip that Mike had, in fact, died during it. Pop culture comas are rarely so realistic as that, after all.
I have no idea how common the knowledge is, but a lot of people can write multiple paragraphs about why character X sucks, I guess I assumed they could also do basic googling to see how bad a real coma is lol
I can do the googling and know how bad it is, but I don’t project that knowledge onto characters.
Danny responded to “might not wake up for a while”. That’s what he thought might not be so bad. That’s still a shitty thing to say in those circumstances, but there’s no reason to think he was talking about Mike dying rather than Ethan getting a break from Mike’s abuse for a while.
I mean saying his friend not waking up while he’s in the hospital is a good thing and planning on making a love confession WHILE THE FRIEND IN THE HOSPITAL shows a marked selfishness of Danny.
Danny was deciding this was a time for romance and forget Ethan’s actual feelings or friendship with Mike.
As the spice girl says, “If you wanna be my love, ya gotta get with my friends.”
I think his words about Mike were shitty, but not selfish. If you look back at his talk with Mike at the party, he’s thinking about Mike’s effect on Ethan, not what Mike’s done to him.
Danny blurted out that he didn’t object to Mike being in a coma for a few weeks. It wasn’t meant to be said out loud and he instantly realized how bad it sounded. Ethan called him out on it and he initially backed down, but then decided to explain where he was coming from. It obviously was not well received.
it’s all death metal ballads about omegaverse ships of pop culture characters. the lingo is so esoteric that only extremely-online teenage girls realize just how wildly dirty it is.
Okay, Ethan, I know you’re in mourning for Mike. You have all the excuses for being an ass. But just like Joyce, you’re still an ass. Last strip you were insulting her, so this strip she jabs at you. This is normalized in any friend group that tolerates Mike. She is also mourning Mike.
I hope you’re going to text her to continue this conversation before she has time to walk away from your door.
In Mourning for Mike, Possibly dealt with his homophobic parents all break, got kidnapped, witnessed murder…. He’s barely being insulting, and it’s a private convo.
He didn’t rip off her head and crap down her throat, he told her she only comes to him to justify her problems, and told her goodbye after she made a kinda icky comment to a gay dude.
This is after possibly not speaking to him for a few months.
Ethan’s not doing anything that terrible, I feel like a lot of people are writing Ethan off simply due to his look and because he’s not being super soft boy sad right now…
Mourning Mike by coming over to fill Ethan in on other people’s personal dealings that he doesn’t care about and acting with the express purpose of getting a rise out of him?
Actually, having wrote that out that behavior would track for Mike but it doesn’t feel like Amber’s actually doing this out of concern; she even admitted that she was hoping she could get out of it so like why should he be expected to make the extra effort when she seems to be motivated by lowkey selfish reasons?
Y’all are right. She shouldn’t put this on Ethan if he doesn’t want it. Maybe put it on Joe if he’s her new brother who wants to be a functional family.
Go to try and resolve issue with friend, make highly inappropriate joke at inappropriate time instead, double down on joke after it’s abundantly clear it wasn’t well-received. The autism evidence just keeps growing!
Amber’s got the harsh black and white thinking going on, I dunno if that’s a me thing or an ASD thing, but the thing I’m interested in is how you’d think someone so hyper critical of themselves would be constantly afraid of being hurtful.
The fixation on interests is absolutely an ASD thing, and I’m wondering if how it works for Amber is that her fixations override any social filter. Like the part of her constantly reinforcing that she’s awful just doesn’t register if she’s interested enough in something to not have a filter.
I don’t know if I count as “autistic”, but I’m a socially-challenged neurodivergent who has that same kind of fixation thing going on, and looking back it’s hella awkward too
I think it’s because Amber probably has OCD, not ASD, and those are pretty common co-morbidities, but they are distinct illnesses which produce some behaviors and symptoms that can superficially overlap, to the outside observer. I can’t recall if Willis has specifically mentioned it in text, but he’s definitely had Amber do her fair share of “OCD things,” even if they’re really subtle. It’s hard to imagine Amber has ASD when, well, Dina is in the same comic. We know what Willis thinks ASD “looks like,” so to speak.
Well with all types of neurodivergence, there’s tons of overlap and every person’s experience with it is surely unique, and surely Willis takes this into account when writing his characters.
Speaking as a diagnosed person with ASD, Amber actually fits very well into general descriptions and experiences of women with ASD (who actually tend to present very differently from men), whether Willis purposely means to write her that way or not. And he did mention that he – a person who has said he may be on the spectrum himself- based some of Amber’s aspects on himself.
Also, just because Dina is “further” on the spectrum or more obvious about it doesn’t mean Amber can’t be on it herself. Many real-life women who have ASD don’t fit the more stereotypical mainstream ideas of ASD the way Dina does.
I figured out I likely had it either around when I was in college or a little bit after. I was officially diagnosed around 2019.
I think if I had discovered I was autistic sooner, not much would have changed, because my mother wasn’t really open to finding interventions and aids for me or my brother…mostly because she was (highly likely to have been) autistic herself and didn’t know how to even begin to navigate the systems of testing and diagnosis and subsequent processes of getting supports.
I think, though, that knowing what my specific issues were earlier in life would have helped a lot emotionally. All of my issues just seemed like a nameless cluster of evidence that I was just a horrible, lazy, incompetent person despite being “so smart” as I was often accused of when I was younger. Being able to name that cluster as an actual condition shared by many others with similar experiences helped me realize that I wasn’t just fucked up and weird and annoying.
To people who are willing to listen and learn, like at work, it’s also helped me to feel braver about asking for what I need – more time on a project, more space to myself, specific work conditions, etc. Being able to say “I’m autistic” makes people more willing to show understanding and accommodation than they would if I were just a weird demanding freak, which they might otherwise see me as.
Discovering I’m autistic has also helped me to actually pinpoint my symptoms and thus look for help. It never even occurred to me I might have anxiety or OCD until I started looking into the symptoms ASD women have and how they present. Once I was aware that what I was going through WAS anxiety and OCD, I was finally able to seek treatment. My life and relationships have improved immeasurably due to this.
I know that was long but I hope that answered your question.
Even if it was long, this was necessary and answered my inquiry perfectly.
I myself am only beginning to realize what my S.A.D. and vocal dysphoria (and loads of other quirks) mean for me, and must I say your BEAUTIFUL words give me confidence that, just as you did with your ASD, I can gain the same kind of COURAGE and acceptance from others the very same way with my own unique stripes of neurodivergence!!!
A very welcome break, for regarding others calling me “autistic” for decades, I was fed a poisonous version of a label that was supposed to enrich my life.
You’ve mentioned your vocal dysphoria a number of times, and I’m curious what you mean by that? If it’s what I think/what it sounds like, I may also have that. I just am more familiar with the phrase in the context of trans people, and I don’t know if this is that or something else.
When I start hearing my own voice, it makes me feel so awful, like I just wanna stop talking and give up then and there. It just feels so wrong to me, and when I listen to recordings of it its just so painfully embarrassing and awful and a personal fucking NIGHTMARE. It was to the point to which when I did assignments where I had to record myself, I wouldn’t DARE listen to it and just HOPED I did it right.
It’s a big part of why in-person communication is so difficult for me. I begin talking for a bit, then my own voice painfully echos in me and causes a vicious feedback loop that makes it all crash.
As for the trans part, I myself am actually questioning / gender-fluid, but I get the impression that my vocal dysphoria isn’t as much a gender thing as much as it is due to my stripes of neurodivergence.
I get that. For me, a lot of my feelings toward my voice are connected to my speech impediment–and some the speech therapy I had, a bit of which was specifically about listening to my recorded voice and noticing where it was “wrong.” When I was in middle school, I had a period of trying to figure out what kind of injury I could give myself to make it so I wouldn’t be capable of speech so that people would stop expecting it from me.
And yeah, I have stories of assignments where I had to record myself–specifically for Spanish classes– and if I listened back to it and tried to do it over, I’d just get worse because of growing anxiety about my voice.
These days, I’d say I’m doing better, but I’d still never seek out an experience where I’d hear myself recorded. I still have my speech impediment, but I manage it in a way where it comes out sounding like an accent to a lot of people (I get asked where I’m from a lot). Which still kind of sucks, at times! But mostly talking in person doesn’t bother me, unless I become too aware of it by catching my voice on particular note or thinking specifically about my voice– that does make this particular subject literally hard to talk about, though.
More than anything in life, I seek to be actually be UNDERSTOOD by others, when I have been painfully misunderstood for so, SO long.
And I at this point I have to accept that it isn’t possible for people to understand me unless they know my story, where I’m coming from.
So in a way, I guess for me to have to eventually share this is inevitable.
Better now then never.
OH GOD, HERE IT GOES
[DISTURBING CONTENT INCOMING]
Even though I never had any ****official**** diagnosis of autism myself, my parents and family and all kinds of people around me INSISTED that I was, and used that as a reason to infantilize me, hold me back from all kinds of things, reprimand me, helicopter me, subject me to endless, debilitating micromanagement, to send me to therapist after therapist (as if the problem wasn’t THEM) and especially bully and abuse me (my parents and teachers would pin me down with all their weight on more than one occasion). Nobody, not even my own parents ever never saw me as my own person, and my personality and idiosyncrasies, my intelligence, everything that made me unique was glossed over with that one label — “autistic”. My own mother even threatened to send me to a mental hospital on one occasion. My father didn’t do this, but he was just as abusive (actually even more so), and even called me the R-word more than once.
The worse part was that even after I got an official diagnosis of S.A.D., they STILL insisted on calling me “autistic” and continued to treat me in the same AWFUL, AGONIZING ways.
Since then, I have read it as offensive and insensitive in general to label people as autistic, because that’s my scar, that’s the significance the word always had to me — an excuse to restrain someone, an excuse to excessively restrict, an excuse to say you don’t know how to help so try anything even if its abusive — an excuse to hold someone back, an excuse to paint over their personality with one big brush stroke, to not even make an effort to understand them at all, to lump them all together into one category, to become the subject of some occasional news story just to disappear once again.
The word has become very traumatic for me, to the point to which being called “autistic” makes me experience this horrendous downward mental spiral of AWFUL memories, excessive self-consciousness, past humiliation, embarrassment, the feeling that my life, my mind is not my own, fear, and my mind, my personality slipping away, melting away to conform to, get replaced, get puppeteered by the label itself. It’s like an awful bad drug trip, and I need to use all my will, all my fighting spirit to hold it back.
Even though I know there’s probably no ill intent amongst you commenters and any other people I interact with, it still really saddens me to see people preemptively putting the autistic label on others (even if they’re just fictional characters that I relate to), and extrapolating personality traits and assuming aspects of them and how they should act based on that projected label, instead of getting to know the nuances, quirkiness and uniqueness of their personality and why they actually are the way they are. When people on Facebook and YouTube make videos and posts with phrases like “mildy artistic”, I get infuriated, because I know what they REALLY mean by that and it feels like the most insidious mockery.
OH GOD I’M ACTUALLY DOING THIS HERE GOES NOTHING NOW OR NEVER
Lord Willis I am SO SO sorry if this is inappropriate for the community here im just so desperate to be understood and im just a mess and half the time i don’t even know what im doing
“the thing I’m interested in is how you’d think someone so hyper critical of themselves would be constantly afraid of being hurtful” I don’t understand your question.
I wasn’t posing it as a question, I was thinking about Amber as someone who constantly judges everything she does and could do then rushes into a subject you’d think she’d have some awareness of being a sensitive one.
A thing I have noticed with women with ASD, which Amber shows a ton of symptoms of, is that we are often extremely anxious about hurting or offending people – but then, when we ACTUALLY do something that hurts or offends someone, we either totally miss that we were offensive/hurtful or we double down because we think we were justified in what we did/said. Aaaand that’s why a lot of neurotypical people see us as assholes.
Makes sense. I’m definitely hypercritical of hurting someone else, but I also have no Off button so if I like to joke around with a friend I’ll eventually reach a point where I stop being charming about it. Not in the specific context of “Amber talking about X subject without tact,” more that I eventually cross a boundary.
Wendy, Spencer, I don’t know whether or not I’m “autistic” but I am neurodivergent and gender-fluid (just on the border of questioning), and must I say I TOTALLY relate and find myself doing this all the time.
I’ve been plagued by ADHD all my life and the only reason I know is that I described my tendency to get lost in a fixation so hard that hours fly before I notice, and then someone went “bruh that’s hyperfocus.”
It’s worth getting a diagnosis, if only to know what it is not.
I actually did get a formal diagnosis, and even though it said I had obsessive compulsive symptoms like this among other things, as significant as they were they were it was but ONE POINT off of diagnosing me with obsessive compulsive disorder, and said that it was better explained by the other diagnoses / as a coping mechanism of sorts for them.
Or maybe I was just misdiagnosed. Who knows really? Given how much of this kind of stuff is new and how much research on it is biased and has dubious intentions and how this kind of psychology in general came out of a REALLY bad place, diagnostics can get REALLY tricky and even when it comes from a professional it’s only slightly better than a blind guess. For instance, until recently, ADHD and ASD were never seen as conditions that can occur together, even though they have tons of overlap (source), and besides that all kinds of categories of different flavors of neurodivergence are changing EVERY DAY, shifting around like an ancient fucking maze or something.
TL;DR Current diagnostic categories, professional or armchair, are not gods. And hopefully if you’re not unlucky, or at least if you’re not ME, you won’t have to learn that the hard way.
ughhhhh bunch of duplicate comments today. am i the only one with that issue? i’ll write a comment, especially a short one, especially if i’ve written another one recently, and it just won’t appear. i click post, the page loads, my comment isn’t there.
then, if i try to post the exact same comment i get a message saying “it looks like you’ve already tried to say that!”
So i make a subtly different comment, i’ll also delete my email address from the “URL” field just in case, sometimes that one goes through, sometimes it doesn’t, at which point i usually give up unless i think my joke is absolutely crucial. it’s annoying.
Is it just me???
And then today, for whatever reason, at some point all the first-attempt comments i’ve made that hadn’t gotten published ended up appearing, making me look like an idiot ^^
Textually, they had a fight. Danny stuck his foot in his mouth by asking if it’d be that bad if it took a while for Mike to wake up, which escalated to Danny telling Ethan he’d have let Mike laugh at Danny if he was comatose and Ethan saying he would. Similarly off the handle, but the undercurrent was in Ethan passively tolerating Mike’s abuse.
Subtextually, I get the feeling Ethan actually had feels for Danny, and then felt betrayed by their last fight.
They had feelings for each other for sure, but neither moved on them. Ethan needs to move on. He is keeping everyone at length. I mean Amber was his only real friend besides Mike! Now he won’t even listen really to her either. Socially isolating.
How do you know he’s keeping “everyone” at length? He just hasn’t been shown interacting with any other characters. It’s like Marcie and Sal. Marcie was tired of being collateral damage to Sal’s fighting. Ethan’s probably tired of being collateral damage of Amber’s self-destructive behaviors and de facto emotional crutch, especially since he’s made it clear that having his own problems around her is exhausting when she constantly takes them and centers them around herself
The difference is that Sal put in the effort to change and grow past her old habits whereas Amber doesn’t seem to have done much self-reflection at all
Don’t know what it is but whenever a character has their eyes closed and looking down thing going on, like in panel 1, they always come off looking smug and self-satisfied
In general, I think he is completely autonomous in deciding his own social relationships with others just as with any other individual human being, so no, I do not think you are alone in this regard.
After damage has been done to a relationship, there may be a time of separation to reflect on what happened.
As “unusually” long as it may seem to be for Ethan, as long as he’s not violating anyone else’s basic freedoms or entitlements, he has NOTHING to answer for.
Being unnecessarily mean to Amber among other people, however, is a different story.
He’s not being unnecessarily mean, Amber came to him to justify her problems, then made a creepy comment… He told her what she was doing and said goodbye
Nah. No one is obligated to maintain a friendship with anyone they don’t want to. Danny definitely hurt Ethan in the hospital scene, intentionally or not, and I can understand why Ethan wouldn’t want to stay friends. Heck, I could even see him justifying cutting Amber off too.
There was no way this interaction was going to end well, Amber confronted with Ethan in a bad mood wouldn’t know what to do, and would probably just tried to treat things lightly to see if it diffuses, Ethan is no mood of of making any emotional work for the others right now and still in a grieving and wanting to be miserable right now. It worries me seeing him so skinny and with bags under his eyes, but people just carrying on is not something he will feel amused at.
The relationship probably can be salvaged but right now looks like anything other lightest of touches could make it worse… And that is going to be hard..
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failing to read the slashficcy signs
you gotta watch out for the overdrive signs, I cannot stress that enough
Maybe Ethan WANTS to read that.
SLASHFICCY OVERDRIVUUUU!!!!
My heart! Filling with a Powerful heat!
My pen! Writing ink that bleed through!!!
SLASHFIC BL OVERDRIIIIIIIIIIVUUUUUUUUU!!!
Your next line is going to be: ”I drew it!”
Please sir. Cartoon alms for the poor? Sir, please.
“that’s where you’re supposed to laugh damnit Ethan”
Dumbing of Age Book 12: Goodbye Amber
Note to self. It IS creepy to ship real life people you know. Or at least to vocalize that you ship them.
Oh, absolutely. Had this happen to me and my best friend in high school, and it almost wrecked our friendship. (The fact that we later got together is definitely *in spite of*, and not because of, the weirdos harassing us about how they shipped us.)
Other kids did this to me and my best friend as children, as in we were younger than 10. We did not ever get together.
But which of us has not shipped Sirksome with Yotomoe, milo with King D., myself with Spencer, BBCC with Sal, or Doctor Who with Doctor Who?
I hasn’t. What’s wrong with me?
I remember once being told in this very comment section that I was being shipped with someone.
More specifically, Some1.
B…BAKA!
B—BAKA!
Huh. I’d have shipped milu and yotomoe. To each their own.
so, when Husband and I got together, we were initially just hanging out as per usual, but more so, and once we made it “official” that we were an item, one of our friends was all, “I KNEW IT I KNEW YOU TWO WERE TOGETHER!” and I was all (jestingly) “OMG YOU SNEAKY BONGO”*
*not actually bongo, but I don’t like “jesting” about that word anymore
anyway that’s how our friend became Sneaky Bongo
It definitely is, but her doubling down on it makes me think she’s trying to kind of playfully push his buttons as per their usual dynamic, but, yeah, obviously Ethan is understandably not in the mood.
Yeah, I also feel like she’s trying to get him to talk to her here (which makes it… less bad, potentially?). I was just commenting on real-person shipping in general, lol
Given her track record on this I think she just doesn’t know when to stop. Or doesn’t care to.
A little of column A, a little of column B. Amber can be both trying to get Ethan to talk to her AND be horribly, socially awkward and borderline inappropriate! In fact I’d expect nothing less.
I think she just now realized there was something between Ethan and Danny, and is repeating the distasteful joke to get him to open up about it.
I think it might be more of a “surprised incredulity” response, done mostly for comic effect.
Like, “This couldn’t possibly be right! I’ll repeat it again to make sure he gets my meaning.”
In high school a lot of my friends thought me and my friend would make a cute couple. I didn’t see it and neither did she. Legitimately I look back on that and I’m baffled anyone thought we’d be good together. I barely even get why we were friends. We had NO chemistry haha.
Made that mistake. Once.
They still hate each other but for some reason still get along great with me. I don’t get it and feel awful for it.
Don’t beat yourself up. Love and hate are both powerful emotions. Seems you picked up that something interesting would happen, and I’d guess they both knew you weren’t malicious in wanting to see them happy.
See, the funny thing is that rules like these definitely exist, and also just as definitely have exceptions. Friends don’t insult each other, unless it’s a friend group that likes doing that. Friends don’t mock each other’s insecurities, unless it’s a friend group that finds comfort in others doing so as a way to take power away from them.
There are of course just as many toxic friend groups that take these things and hurt people with them but my intent is to point out that there is always a group of friends who definitely do things that friends just don’t do to each other. The point of saying that? Just a matter of individuals.
Ultimately your point still largely stands. Just with an asterisk.
Don’t ship your friends.*
*unless you and your friends have talked about it and find it funny, amusing, or genuinely thought provoking.
But that’s kind of the default that all friend groups should operate on for everything and often don’t ever do.
-Autistic who takes detailed notes about social interactions
Amber needs to go redraw her shipping chart to incorporate this new info.
TBH it’d be better if she just erased the parts of her shipping chart that involved real people. Real in this case being a relative term, but given that she’s not breaking the fourth wall we can at least agree on real meaning the same scope of reality as her.
Amber, honey, no.
I forgot that Amber didn’t know about their… well, “relationship” is too strong a term, but mutual attraction at any rate.
There wasn’t really much there to know. Two guys thought about maybe kissing each other once upon a time isn’t really anything worth telling. People think about doing stuff all the time. Also they both mutually decided not to kiss each other because that might’ve hurt Amber which apparently was a stupid thought to have but ultimately worked out for the best…or worst. I don’t know.
I think the new information is Danny’s bisexuality
Nope, he’s told about that before
Oh actually maybe not he was about to tell her once but it got ruined by him kissing Amber not Amazi-Girl
How will you like my Slashfic-y brain when I shift it into
MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE.
Oh no the cars are trying to kill us and they’re having gay sex!
It’s Walkyverse Malaya’s dream come true!
Tch. Bummer that you couldn’t spring for the Turbo drive for that slashfic-y brain.
I was waiting for someone to make a Maximum Overdrive comment. Honestly surprised it took so long.
Look, Amber, I don’t think you’re gonna trick him into talking to you like that.
I just went back to check since I didn’t really comment yesterday and didn’t see you getting a second roll then, so unless I missed something: VICTORYYYYYYYYY! Congrats!
DAMMIT. I posted a victory comment but it didn’t go through. RUDE.
I’m so happy for you! *wipes tear*
Ah, at last. Victory!
Amber will be in her bunk.
**drink**
hashtag priorities
oh dang did Amber not know
She knew Ethan and Mike were banging/had banged
This may shed some light… did anyone know Ethan was into both of them? Pretty sure Danny didn’t know
Jacob, I think. He saw them first vow to “never ever happen” and then when Ethan was sleeping around brought Danny up, whereupon Ethan commented that Danny was too good for him.
I think Dina also knew, and maybe a few others. This was specifically kept from Amber, though. Danny getting over his “bi angst” and deciding to try to ask Ethan out is where their friendship went horribly wrong (because Danny said a bunch of insensitive things instead).
Danny got over his bi angst long before he tried asking Ethan out, and Dina knows Danny is bi but I don’t think she knows or cares about Ethan and Danny’s crushing on each other.
I’ll have to hunt down the page where Danny and Dina talk about it being an “open secret.” I thought it involved Danny and Ethan sitting on the floor and Dina basically referencing the attraction between the two.
It seems that, before Danny and Ethan got into that argument when Mike was still in a coma, both of them successfully kept Amber from knowing that they were attracted to each other.
*the song is finished and the needle lifts off the vinyl*
Wait, I thought we were playing songs on the hacked Muzak?
That’s the old school way of making a mike drop. No less devastating than a needle scratch at the right time.
Not a Mike drop of course, a mic drop, er… argh.
Although a Mike drop did sort of start a lot of the conflict here.
It’s a lot less devastating. Lifting the tone arm straight up doesn’t leave a tick in the record like a scratch does.
Depends how you hack the Muzak.
Hacking with needles may be messy, though.
History lesson: early Muzak systems–and the competing Seeburg systems–used proprietary vinyl records that ran at 16 rpm and had special superthin needles that wouldn’t work with LPs or singles (so pranksters couldn’t just switch the records and up the speed). These were in use from the Fifties to the Eighties and got replaced by cassettes for a while and then went satellite in the Nineties. Now You Know.
great timing, DJ
perfect timing DJ!
I know these two have a long-established relationship where Amber’s commentary to this effect is something Ethan has, at the very least, not indicated he’s opposed to. In writing the next part it’s not really about Amber, because Amber’s only engaging with it on a micro level where her recipient hasn’t indicated to her it’s a problem and she’s never been indicated to act on it elsewhere.
But, on a macro level, gosh do I wish I could chuck every straight girl who acts like this to real queer dudes into a fucking volcano.
I definitely read it also as ‘Amber joking, mostly at her own expense, to try and move the conversation in some different direction,’ but agreed that the macro issue is very much an issue and sucks while acknowledging Amber was didn’t realize Ethan in specific wasn’t here for this.
I don’t think Amber’s joking in the sense that she does not sexually fantasize about Ethan and Mike touching their bits together and vocalizes that to Ethan, but it’s not really a beef for me in that Amber’s not engaging in the same level of “queer men exist for my indulgence” where it’s an active, constant miasma. It’s an acceptable behaviour for her within the boundary that she and Ethan have established, the way Billie and Ruth moved on from beating each other up and then making out to the two actions blending in together eventually.
I think this is a other reason why i never really liked amber (doa flavor at least). I absolutely despise fujoshi, especially when they bring it into real life. Queer people aren’t your fetish, and it’s so much worse when people bring their friends into it. Even if Ethan seemed cool with it, it’s just representative of a very ugly face of fangirl culture that makes me mad uncomfortable.
Yes this also applies to straight dudes who fetishize lesbians and that one ex who definitely fetishized my bisexuality and saw me as a doorway to a threesome.
It is, but I do think it’s worth compartmentalizing between macro-scale behaviour and micro-scale.
It’s a thing where Amber and Ethan act like this and are comfortable, but if she ran up to Danny and did it that’d be deeply wrong, because at that point it’s not about engaging in something she’s checked with Ethan first, she’d be treating Danny’s bisexuality as a gateway to sexy fujo fun time.
Like, a girl doing this over fictional characters don’t mean anything to me, a girl doing it to actual dudes is super effed, but a girl who does it to a dude for only as long as he’s comfortable I think of as engaging in that terrible thing, but in a way where the harm is averted. To me, it’s macro-scale behaviour when a straight girl treats queer men as a fetish to indulge, but I think it stops being that macro-scale behaviour when Amber does it exclusively to one guy who we’ve established isn’t opposed to her acting like this.
Yeah, it just still makes me seriously uncomfortable to watch, this damages my ability to enjoy her screentime when she’s doing this
I did this a little when I was young ( and long ago realized it was gross, and have stopped). For me, I think it was a bit about being just so excited to see other people being openly queer and having all these feelings bubbling up I didn’t know how to appropriately categorize or contain. Now that I am also openly queer, I still kind of get heart eyes at any random person being defiantly queer in public, but not in a shippy way, and I do my best to lock it down. One of these days, I hope to get to the point of finding queer strangers going about their lives just as boring and unremarkable as the cishet ones, because I know we really are, and I GET why othering is bad, but I will miss that little spark of joy.
I know it’s obvious but I do really appreciate the darkness of Ethan’s background reflecting his now dark nature and cynicism, it’s a nice artistic touch. Also probably saves time on illustration.
also the fact that his room is literally dark, which is a bit concerning. Was he still sleeping? It’s got to be at least 11am. …OK maybe it’s not that concerning.
I dunno, I’d say that went about as well as it was gonna. Ethan is exercising superhuman prowess in shutting down Amber’s stupid slashfic thing so quickly.
I think he did the opposite thing of shutting it down.
Challenge: name ONE THING Ethan could have said which would have shut down that train of thought. Then reread what you just typed and realize that it would actually have sent her slashficcy brain further into overdrive.
“That’s not funny. He was hurtful, and now you’re being hurtful too.”
So S&M slashfic overdrive.
… though Amber would (probably) not vocalize that in response, and that might be the actual goal.
“shut up amber, this shit is creepy”
In my experience it doesn’t work but eh
Maybe a convincing denial of there being anything “jilted lover”-like about his reaction to Danny?
Because that’s the actual point here. Amber realizing the signs of his old crush on Danny is what Ethan’s reacting to, not anything about the slashfic side of things.
That checks out. And it only took me until now, like half a day after I read the strip, to get it.
I do wonder if he’s totally cloistering himself.
Like, yes, he has plenty of reasons to not really want to talk to the main cast right now, but he did also make other friends after Mike made him, well, feel desirable. I sort of hoped he’d been spending time with them, but it doesn’t seem like it.
Hope he’s not being totally icy with Jacob, at least.
Maybe he does spend time with them. We just wouldn’t see it because frankly if they ain’t on the cast page they’re losers who don’t have anything interesting going on that we’d want to see. No one’s asking about what Finger guns guy Eric is doing.
Well, not finger guns guy.
Given the clear signs of depression – lost a significant amount of weight, bags under his eyes and missing cheek blushes, and the long hair very much looks to me like a depression (lack of) haircut – I suspect that yeah, he’s isolating the same way Amber is, not just not interacting with the main cast. We did see him in the lounge, but he wasn’t interacting with anyone, not just cold shouldering Danny. He was just there, and for all we know he was sexiled the same way Danny was because Jacob’s got a new date buddy. We haven’t seen much of him yet to observe, but what we can see definitely looks like someone who really can’t muster up the caring necessary to take basic care of himself, which tends to mean avoiding people who’d ask questions like ‘have you eaten yet today?’ At least as much as can be done with a roommate. Compare him in both scenes so far to Dana in the flashbacks – she’s clearly masking around friends, where he made no effort whatsoever in the lounge. That suggests there aren’t a lot of people checking in on him he needs to seem something resembling okay for.
From the preview images I think Jacob makes an off-panel appearance in a recent bonus comic that indicates they’re still on decent enough terms
oh my god that look
is ethan
becoming self-aware of the strip he is in????????????????
Ethan becoming the Deadpool of DoA is more fitting than I’d ever have expected tbh.
Ethanpool. Ethpool?
I’m glad they’re still talking, even if it’s not very pleasant.
Starting to get the feeling Wthan is just mad at the world at this point not just Amber. Starts to make me wonder how spending time with family was like for him during the holidays with him grieving over Mike with his disapproving mother in the same room.
……oh. Ohhh no. OOOOH NOOOO.
I kind of wonder if he stayed at the dorms D: Because Naomi would’ve been even more horrible than usual
Shipping actual people is creepy, shipping actual people you know personally is even creepier, doing it when one has made it clear to you they want nothing to do with the other, well I’m not sure that makes it creepier but definitely more awkward for the person involved
I guess what I’m trying to say is cut that out Amber
Ashton Kutcher is standing just out of frame, I’m sure of it
Amber you are so late to the game.
RE: Shipping People IRL
– I legit make a caveat of “RPF is alright as long as you’re
1) AWARE IT’S NOT REAL
2) Never ever shoving it on people’s faces, because THAT’s the creepy part, not the imagining stuff about the public persona of some artist you’re never meeting anyway
But Amber writes stuff about her friends and she tells them about it :’) She may not be straight (Shortpacked!Amber wasn’t, and this one has given #vibes), but that’s still yikes. Now, the thing is… She’s missing a bigass piece of the puzzle.
I don’t think she would’ve made this joke if she’d known. It’s incredibly likely she’ll add this to the tally of her sins. Meanwhile I’m sure Ethan isn’t having a meaningful relationship with anyone. Jury’s still out on casual sex (I’m leaning not), but oh god I’d wager cold hard cash he’s pushed everyone away because #pain.
Man, I wanna hug these kids :C
Mandatory gravatar roulette! Sorry, Jennifer but I’m… Not a fan lately
//LOOKS AT GRAVATAR AND CACKLES
Seriously, that one’s beautiful.
It’s just an avatar of Ruth?
…telling Jennifer she’s not a fan of her lately ^^
Comment-Gravatar synergy goes meta! I love it!
They mean going ‘not lately a fan of Jennifer’ WITH a Ruth grav.
Well if it’s any consolation, it would have eventually happened anyway.
Rule #34 of the internet bruh.
I don’t have a problem with shipping people IRL, though it’s definitely not a good idea to tell those people that you ship them, especially if you know them personally.
Altered Ethan is standing in front of you with Grief and Loss tagging him like graffiti artists all over his face and you don’t see it. Amber, I know you’re socially on a different frequency but tune in for him.
I’m reminded of Tina Belcher’s erotic friend fiction. But at least she seems to understand it’s fantasy and doesn’t make her friends uncomfortable about it.
I also have to say that I’ve been on both sides of a situation where someone thinks joking or sort-of flirting wasn’t going too far, and it turned out that it actually WAS. *cringing* I know how awkward that can be for everyone. While I flatter myself that I’m a lot more stable than Amber, I too have serious trouble reading social cues and nuances. (I’m neurotypical, BTW. Just clueless.)
Tina literally read her friendfiction to the school caféteria.
Maybe I’m biased because i like her character, but Tina was pushed to it by Tammy (who was threatening her) and I feel it was done in such an “innocent” (is that the right word?) way that no one was seriously upset. Confused, definitely! Plus Tina’s erotic friend fiction, as far as the show tells us, pretty much focuses on touching butts and maybe kissing a little. While I’m not trying to throw any shade on Amber here, she does come off as leering a wee bit.
it wasn’t just that tammy had threatened to do it anyway; her mother had directly encouraged her to read it to everyone. for someone with… limited understanding of social nuance, that’s a lot of reason to assume it’s okay.
but also tina is a cartoon character in a show where everyone is delightfully awkward and the tone is much less serious than this comic so actions can be taken differently.
Good points!
It totally feel you on that last part.
I’m neurodivergent, and I am only beginning to realize how bad I am at reading these”social cues”.
The few times I actually do get it right more than anything feel lucky guesses
I actually thought I might be neurodivergent for quite a while, and talked to some experts, and it turns out I’m not.
I’m just nerdy and clueless. I guess I’ve spent so much of my life with my head stuck in books that I never really learned some of the unspoken codes that seem to lead to popularity. I mean, I understand how to behave professionally with my colleagues and my students. But when it comes to social situations, I often land up with a terminal case of foot-in-mouth disease.
I still wish I had more friends, but I have a great family and a wonderful partner who really understands me, so I can’t complain. Plus I feel like the middle of a pandemic isn’t the best time to address my lack of social savvy; I’ve been in quarantine or semi-quarantine for (counting) for a year and a half now, so I’m eventually (crossed fingers) going to have to re-learn even things like negotiating talking to salepeople!
Yeah I’ve known for quite a while now that I have social anxiety disorder and vocal dysphoria — only recently did I realize that I counted as neurodivergent and am just realizing how much these things impact me.
Like, I might find myself interacting in-person with clerks at a grocery store or whatever, and even friends, but my anxieties exponentially compound and put a limit on these interactions (don’t even ask me about eye contact).
jaime, what you say resonates with me a lot, so i just want to chime in for a sec to say that when it comes to diagnosing neurodivergencies, especially in anybody who isn’t a straight white boy, experts can be and often are wrong in that many adults, women, queer ppl, poc who are neurodivergent don’t get a diagnosis or have to try multiple times to have their experiences recognised. i don’t know you ofc and don’t know what it means to you that experts told you you’re neurotypical, but if it has lead to any self-doubt, or self-loathing bc you still feel clueless and overwhelmed, pls know that they might just be wrong. if your gut tells you that social interactions are harder for you than for others and that you perceive or process things differently from people around you, you are probably right.
“We didn’t date because we didn’t want to upset you.” “you thought me seeing two people im attracted to smooch would UPSET ME!?!?!?”
(their argument to not date made sense but I also can see Amber trying to rationalize it not bothering her with: but slash….)
I’ll be real, I don’t actually think Amber was suggesting real slash-fic fantasies were going on in her head, I think it was just playful banter. Because she’s trying to lighten the mood that’d been pretty dark this whole conversation. Because what she wanted when coming over was a sense of normalcy, and potentially reassurance that everything is fine and they’re still friends.
And she’s coming to the realization at the end of this strip that no, Ethan just fucking hates her (and Danny, and is unhappy in general).
Yeah, I don’t think she meant it seriously so much as ‘haha, lighten the mood with a dig at my expense, everything’s kinda resembling okay, right?’ Kinda like the ‘I think everyone should kiss’ earlier, come to that. Seems like an attempt at deflection… but Ethan’s not playing along.
That combined with the dawning realization that there was a spark between Danny and Ethan.
Something she just made a dismissive joke about, and is now doubling down on.
It was serious-ish, but the serious part was recognizing Ethan was reacting like a jilted lover, with the slashfic part being a jokey way of letting Ethan tell her she’s wrong. Which he doesn’t play along with because she’s not wrong. His crush on Danny was part of why it was so bad.
Seems like a lot of people are just jumping on their reasonable dislike Amber’s slashficcing of real people and ignoring why it came up in the strip.
NO SHE MEANT IT 1000000% SERIOUSLY AND IS A !!!DEVIL!!! FOR DOING SO I ALWAYS KNEW AMBER WAS A RRRRRRRAUNCHY BONGO WHARGHARGLRRM
/s
I don’t think Ethan hates her, necessarily. He said it outright: Amber only shows up when she wants to dump her issues on him. Not specifically said is that he doesn’t currently have any spoons to give her and is very tired of their dynamic anyway.
And it’s hard for me to argue with him regarding the actually-made statement, honestly. Despite saying ‘there’s no crisis!’ the only thing Amber seems to have actually wanted here was for Ethan to be disturbed by her Danny/Sal news and thus validate her being disturbed by it? With a side of… sex-based banter? Utterly absent, whatever she wanted from this, is any actual concern or thought for Ethan or actual interest in him, his feelings, or his situation. Amber’s interest is all Amber.
Which is honestly fine: Amber’s got a ton of stuff on her mental/emotional plate and by her (current) nature only ever adds to that plate, nothing ever comes off the overloaded plate. She doesn’t have much, if any, ability to offer spoons to other people at the best of times, even if/when she might want to.
Ethan acknowledges that he can’t give Amber what she wants from him, and knows that she can’t (or won’t, in an uncharitable mode) offer him anything he might want from her. Hence: goodbye, Amber.
I think Ethan not denying the “jilted lover” comment is also key here.
I do believe she’s joking here but it is something she’s done 100% unironically before (Ethan and Mike) which is… Ehhhhhh
And with that, the friendship between Amber and Ethan is officially a thing of the past.
If Ethan is this fickle and shallow, then good riddance.
I’m really disappointed at the character.
That he’s not pulling himself up by the bootstraps and dealing with massive trauma such as kidnapping, murder and death better????
Fickle and shallow for… not instantly and enthusiastically falling in line with Amber’s little interaction set piece? Which is itself, as others have commented, from at least a certain perspective kiiiiiind of problematic? Nah. Amber- as usual- a) can’t or won’t read the room; b) is using Ethan as a prop; c) has dropped her issues in his lap yet again expecting him to jump to it and get with the solutions/ sympathizing. Seems like he’s not in the mood.
With the other replies in mind i am BEGGING you to explain this
Codependent people are like this, especially when they are being used by self-medicating people who should really see a psychiatrist instead…
To be fair, isn’t Ethan kind of a jilted lover, or at least close to, of Danny’s?
Ethan got mad his lover rightfully called out his former lover for being an unrepentant abusive asshole and now has neither and is mad at everyone else but himself for the position he is in
Right after being kidnapped and having witnessed a murder, cant forget that Ethans suffering compound trauma, lets stop acting like Danny gets a pass on saying something shitty, uncompassionate and ill timed just because its true.
Tell ya what, let’s have someone who does not know you from Adam but decides to dedicate the first six months of knowing you to being just the most mentally abusive prick possible and then while that’s going on the person you’re crushing on and semi-dating takes every opportunity to stick up with said asshole. I’ll page you for your halo if you don’t have some sense of relief that person could be out of your life for a time being.
Even more than that, the abusive prick is even worse to the guy you’re crushing on (and your ex-girlfriend).
If you read back to Danny’s interaction with Mike at the party, it’s pretty clearly Ethan he thinks will be better with Mike gone for “a while”.
I’ll be relieved but maybe not bring MY feelings into the issue right then and there when its not about ME but the victimof their behavior suffering multiple traumas and we are literally in the hospital with the guys family.
Never said Danny wasnt wrong, just that what he said was being a dick
While that former lover and old friend was in a coma and later died.
No matter how true the things were Danny said about Mike they did not need to be said at that moment, not to Ethan.
The last thing he ever said to him while he was conscious was callous and dismissive, now he’s dead and he’ll never get closure for that.
Damn, Ethan’s problems are an onion. Peel back layer after stinky layer until you’re left with nothing but tears.
Thank you! Sometimes it doesn’t matter about you being RIGHT, it’s about NOT BEING AN ARSE ! “You’re not wrong*insert name* you’re just an arsehole”
I think my friends parents suck, they’re very homophobic and overbearing but my friend LOVES his parents, when his dad was in the hospital with Covid I didn’t go to the hospital and say “Well your dad deserves to suffer cuz he sucks” I told my friend worried about his Dad “I’m sorry your dad is sick, let me know if you need anything”
Cuz how *I* felt about his parents didn’t matter to me nearly as much as how *My friend felt* in that moment.
In an emotional time, Danny said some things he really shouldn’t have said and which could be easily construed as “I hope Mike never wakes up.” It seems like Danny has since been avoiding Ethan and never followed up with an (depending on timing) “I hope your friend recovers” or “I’m sorry your friend died.”
I don’t think “who is correct” and “what are the coded meanings of the statements they said” are as relevant as “is Danny supporting his grieving friend” and “does Ethan feel betrayed.”
Ethan feeling like Danny betrayed him is not the same as Ethan being angry at everyone else for not having Danny as a lover. Also, suggesting Ethan is responsible for his position of not having Mike as a lover? Not cool. Mike died, and that is not Ethan’s fault in any way.
Is this Amber shoving the joke in Ethan’s face or is it her realizing that there was something between Ethan and Danny?
Shoving the joke, I think. Amber wants Ethan to engage with her, but doesn’t have anything in her toolset beyond ‘here’s a thing that disturbs me, Amber, let’s dig into that’ or ‘tease Ethan about boys’, two forms of ‘here are my feelings, please handle them’.
Ethan doesn’t have enough spoons for his own feelings, he can’t also handle hers. Reading Amber charitably here, she knows things are bad with Ethan, she wants to help, but she doesn’t have anything helpful in her available range. She’s just trying everything she actually does have, in hope of getting some response.
First one, then the other.
Realizing there was something between Ethan and Danny (at least on Ethan’s part, I don’t think she knows Danny’s bi, so she could just be reading it as a one-sided crush) and using her well-established and long accepted by Ethan slash habit as a jokey way to let Ethan deny it.
Which he doesn’t.
I’m glad Danny got out of his head and has a good thing going with Sal and isn’t babysitting this train wreck.
Amber go out and live. Let Ethan decide on his own when he’s ready to return to the world.
I do hope at least Jacob is checking in on him. He seems to have isolated himself and he’s lost a lot of weight. Ambers not the right person but i hope he’s not completely alone
Ok, wtf was that, Amber.
It’s as if she tried to pull a Walky.
Insanity plea? ‘Cause she’s seeing and hearing a former friend that isn’t there, on top of Amazi-Girl being a split personality of hers, yet has no time to turn to a trained professional for help with this…Make it all Ethan’s problem? Suuuurrre…What else is he good for?
… Who wants to hear a dirty joke?
Alright, hit me!
Okay so this woman hosts a halloween party for her coworkers, but its themed after emotions, the first woman shows up and she’s covered in pink feathers and wearing a pink tutu, the host asks “ What are you?” “ Tickled pink!”
Next a man wearing a blue suit and an umbrella comes and says he’s feeling a lil blue.
Finally two men show up, both naked, ones got his weiner through a pear and the others is submerged in a eclair.
“ What the hell!?” Goes the host “ Thats not an emotion!!”
“ What do you mean?” Peardong said “ I’m deep in dis pear and he’s fkin dis custard!”
Tune in tommorow for anothet bad joke!
ROFLLLLLL
beautiful
ROFLLLLL
beautiful ^^
The one tommorow will NOT be about a halloween party I swear
yeah i was wondering if this was gonna be a running theme ^^
Naw those are my only two jokes about halloween parties XD
Ethan’s hair is going into overdrive.
Also find it weird Ethan says something dickish and people are all about calling him a horrid, shallow prick that needs to get over himself, and the people that normally outcry about you saying anything less than glowing about Becky is Homophobic… say nothing.
Cmon ya’ll dont double standard now.
I exist safe in the situation that I think both of them suck.
Everyone sucks, they are teens lol
Counterpoint example: Dina.
Fair enough
Secondary point: Agatha
Who?
How DARE YOU?!
Tertiary point: Sierra
The Mist beverage?
I was limiting myself to the main cast; if we’re going beyond that, then there’s a bunch of options. Marcie and Asma, for example, immediately come to mind.
Intellectually I recognize the parallels. Sentiment-wise, Joyce is dealing with the effective loss of her whole family, faith, community as well as a friend-group that turned on her the second she tried to find catharsis without them.
Ethan is dealing with the loss of Mike. Mike was a childhood friend of his and sometimes lover, yes. But it’s MIKE. Mike, a man so toxic, unlikable and dead inside that he would probably bully Ethan for mourning him.
Even Ethan’s supporters have to admit they’re sort of forcing themselves to understand his sense of loss.
What the fuck, no?
It doesn’t matter who it was, losing someone close to you can fucking destroy you. Not to mention the complications of him dying in a heroic act which can mess with how you feel about someone, and the fact that he was only 18 which is a terrifying wake up call that, no you’re not invincible because you’re young. Ethan’s probably thinking something like “he was barely an adult, he had time to change but now he’ll never get to”.
Not to mention the inherently upsetting fact of his last words to his childhood friend, probable first crush and the guy he lost his virginity to (a useless social construct but something important to people nonetheless) being annoyed and dismissive.
Hate mike all you want but to say you would have to force yourself to understand the grief of someone close to him? No, i don’t have to do that actually, it’s incredibly easy.
That’s..not how that works “Look I could respect your grief/trauma but the guy you lost was an asshole so I don’t”
Ethan is NOT just dealing with Mike’s death, he was KIDNAPPED, witnessed a murder and then his friend that he didn’t know was hurt *died*
If you can see someone suffering that much and go “Yeahhh but the person you care about sucks so no” then..I dunno man, that’s an empathy problem.
Exactly. That’s my problem with Danny.
Danny: who blurted out something he knew at the time he shouldn’t have said, before Mike died and very likely without any concept that death was even a possibility.
In nearly any other context, some time apart from the abusive asshole would be a good thing, even if the victim couldn’t see it.
I didn’t mean if Ethan was a real life person. I’m talking about as a spectator and my emotional reaction to the goings-on. Our behavior and reactions to fictional characters are necessarily psychopathic. I’m not a bad person for saying I found Scar more compelling than Simba in The Lion King, or rooting for Walter White for much of Breaking Bad, even though both have literally killed people. I’m not a bad person for saying that Ethan’s angst, while understandable, feels like a frustrating development. Ethan is entitled to his sorrow, but objectively Mike isn’t worth it.
Its not JUST about Mike, he was kidnapped, saw a MURDER, lost a friend and then possibly spent break with his parents.. its not just one thing
Happy to uphold both: people are massively overreacting to both Ethan AND Becky
Also to Danny.
And to Danny yes. For the past decade people have been overreacting to Danny
I believe Willis even said something once to the effect of “you know how many commenters think Danny is just Absolutely The Worst and Can Do No Right? That’s how his parents see him in the comic.”
Welp, that went well. Also, my depression sense is tingling. Not having the energy to deal with basically anything. And shutting everyone out.
Wanna bet his lovely parents have been on his back over break and making it worse???
Last time they made sure he got a therapist. After the shop thing. I think. Not 100% sure, not completely awake yet, but I think I remember ethan saying something like that. So there’s a chance, they did the right thing again.
Ethan’s situation is not healthy but no one wants to actually just let him grieve. They just want him to perk up and be nice. It’d be nice if they could just talk to him and let him be angry, depressed, or negative. He’s not a Jedi. He can afford to be dark and work through his emotions if people will let him and be there for him.
This is why I want Ethan and Joyce in story together again. I think maybe Ethan’s current deal would speak to Joyce’s current deal, and re-connect her to that girl who loved her friends more than alleged God’s alleged rule book anyway. Which could in turn help Ethan: that Joyce level of love and fierce support .
Hate to say it but you’re on the fuckin money Phipps. It’s been a noted phenomenon that people love characters who are fresh in their trauma and act like vulnerable, soft spoken, fragile little chicks that need to be protected. But when a character isn’t being like that, when they show the uglier sides of it, being depressed and not in the pretty “uwu I’m so sad someone be my savior” way, lashing out, being angry at the world- that’s the unacceptable kind of trauma. They’re being mean >:( so they don’t deserve sympathy. They should just shut the fuck up.
No I’m not immune to this just because I’m aware of it, yes I’m a hypocrite, everyone in the world is. I AM changing my opinions on Joyce okay?
(Also pointing one of the many reasons the Jedi suck but that’s a different rant)
Because it is Ethan, this deserves a Batman quote: Not a lot of people know what it feels like to be angry, in your bones. I mean, they understand, foster parents, everybody understands, for awhile. Then they want the angry little kid to do something he knows he can’t do, move on. So after awhile they stop understanding. They send the angry kid to a boys home. I figured it out too late. You gotta learn to hide the anger, practice smiling in the mirror. It’s like putting on a mask.
Uhm yeah? You have to move on or you end slapping young adults and scream “my parents are deeead”
Counterpoint you get to inherit billions and pay for everything with a BAT CREDIT CARD!
Ethan needs to start a band. He’ll make millions.
They only care if there are sadboi feels, but I also feel like people are HEAVILY critical of Ethan because they see the long hair, saggy clothes and just go “Ugh EMO KID” and don’t realize that’s severe self neglect…
He’s not eating, not cutting his hair, wearing dull colors, and barely emoting.
*guys someone call that boy a help line *please* *
Okay but that’s not our fault that Willis chose to invoke every dead horse emo stereotype when he was designing Ethan.
I can’t tell is Ethan is being a drama queen or if I’m just jaded and dead inside.
His friend died threeish months ago right after he was kidnapped, and witnessed murder… So yeah a bit jaded
Ethan is grieving while also not denying the “jilted lover” comment. I’m not sure if either of your options are a great fit.
Apt grav
Oh fuck
The Grav gods see your comment and they LAUGH
…why does Ethan feel Danny betrayed him?
If I remember right when Mike was dying Danny came to him and started firing off about what an awful person Mike was. He was not wrong but HO BOY did he chose a bad timing.
Also how it wouldn’t be that bad if Mike didn’t wake up for a while, which considering that he died shortly afterwards…
Also, even though he never actually followed through with his plan, the fact that he had intended to ask Ethan out in that situation was baaaaad
He expected kindness and sympathy from Danny when Mike was in the hospital, not a criticism of Mike’s character. When you’re in a bad place and grasping for a lifeline, someone who disagrees with you in such a personal way becomes the ultimate betrayer.
I mean Ethan was realizing, maybe, that he loved Mike and Mike loved him.
And Danny said he wished Mike was dead.
And then Mike was dead.
I mean, my conspiracy theory that Danny killed Mike with a pillow is PROBABLY not true but you never know.
Danny said no such thing.
It might well get conflated together in Ethan’s head, since Mike did die, but Danny didn’t come close to saying it.
Saying you don’t think it’s that bad if someone’s in a non medical enduced coma’s not that great either, since typically the longer you are in a coma the least likely it is that you wake up, and if you DO you might be suffering quite a lot of brain damage…
Yeah, but how common is that knowledge? Even in this comments section most of the commenters thought Mike’d wake up until it was revealed a little while after the timeskip that Mike had, in fact, died during it. Pop culture comas are rarely so realistic as that, after all.
I have no idea how common the knowledge is, but a lot of people can write multiple paragraphs about why character X sucks, I guess I assumed they could also do basic googling to see how bad a real coma is lol
I can do the googling and know how bad it is, but I don’t project that knowledge onto characters.
Danny responded to “might not wake up for a while”. That’s what he thought might not be so bad. That’s still a shitty thing to say in those circumstances, but there’s no reason to think he was talking about Mike dying rather than Ethan getting a break from Mike’s abuse for a while.
I mean saying his friend not waking up while he’s in the hospital is a good thing and planning on making a love confession WHILE THE FRIEND IN THE HOSPITAL shows a marked selfishness of Danny.
Danny was deciding this was a time for romance and forget Ethan’s actual feelings or friendship with Mike.
As the spice girl says, “If you wanna be my love, ya gotta get with my friends.”
Or your mother with Mike for a nickle.
I think his words about Mike were shitty, but not selfish. If you look back at his talk with Mike at the party, he’s thinking about Mike’s effect on Ethan, not what Mike’s done to him.
Danny blurted out that he didn’t object to Mike being in a coma for a few weeks. It wasn’t meant to be said out loud and he instantly realized how bad it sounded. Ethan called him out on it and he initially backed down, but then decided to explain where he was coming from. It obviously was not well received.
I mean it’s basically saying, “Sorry, not sorry.”
It’s like Joyce and Becky–an apology is meaningless if you don’t, you know, mean it.
Just in case nobody made the joke yet.
Dumbing of Age: Slashficcy Overdrive!!!
Isn’t that just Slipshine?
Slipshine is canon tho, slashfics aren’t.
SHIZAAAA!!!
Slashfic Overdrive would be a good band name.
it’s all death metal ballads about omegaverse ships of pop culture characters. the lingo is so esoteric that only extremely-online teenage girls realize just how wildly dirty it is.
Okay, Ethan, I know you’re in mourning for Mike. You have all the excuses for being an ass. But just like Joyce, you’re still an ass. Last strip you were insulting her, so this strip she jabs at you. This is normalized in any friend group that tolerates Mike. She is also mourning Mike.
I hope you’re going to text her to continue this conversation before she has time to walk away from your door.
I don’t think they’ve been friends in like, months
In Mourning for Mike, Possibly dealt with his homophobic parents all break, got kidnapped, witnessed murder…. He’s barely being insulting, and it’s a private convo.
He didn’t rip off her head and crap down her throat, he told her she only comes to him to justify her problems, and told her goodbye after she made a kinda icky comment to a gay dude.
This is after possibly not speaking to him for a few months.
Ethan’s not doing anything that terrible, I feel like a lot of people are writing Ethan off simply due to his look and because he’s not being super soft boy sad right now…
Mourning Mike by coming over to fill Ethan in on other people’s personal dealings that he doesn’t care about and acting with the express purpose of getting a rise out of him?
Actually, having wrote that out that behavior would track for Mike but it doesn’t feel like Amber’s actually doing this out of concern; she even admitted that she was hoping she could get out of it so like why should he be expected to make the extra effort when she seems to be motivated by lowkey selfish reasons?
Y’all are right. She shouldn’t put this on Ethan if he doesn’t want it. Maybe put it on Joe if he’s her new brother who wants to be a functional family.
Panel 3:
“And that’s when she knew, she fucked up.”
Emo Ethan still looks way too much like Ken to me.
HEY LOOK I FINALLY GOT MY GIRL BACK
eyyyyyy
Go to try and resolve issue with friend, make highly inappropriate joke at inappropriate time instead, double down on joke after it’s abundantly clear it wasn’t well-received. The autism evidence just keeps growing!
Amber’s got the harsh black and white thinking going on, I dunno if that’s a me thing or an ASD thing, but the thing I’m interested in is how you’d think someone so hyper critical of themselves would be constantly afraid of being hurtful.
The fixation on interests is absolutely an ASD thing, and I’m wondering if how it works for Amber is that her fixations override any social filter. Like the part of her constantly reinforcing that she’s awful just doesn’t register if she’s interested enough in something to not have a filter.
I don’t know if I count as “autistic”, but I’m a socially-challenged neurodivergent who has that same kind of fixation thing going on, and looking back it’s hella awkward too
I think it’s because Amber probably has OCD, not ASD, and those are pretty common co-morbidities, but they are distinct illnesses which produce some behaviors and symptoms that can superficially overlap, to the outside observer. I can’t recall if Willis has specifically mentioned it in text, but he’s definitely had Amber do her fair share of “OCD things,” even if they’re really subtle. It’s hard to imagine Amber has ASD when, well, Dina is in the same comic. We know what Willis thinks ASD “looks like,” so to speak.
Well with all types of neurodivergence, there’s tons of overlap and every person’s experience with it is surely unique, and surely Willis takes this into account when writing his characters.
“Traits not labels” FTW
Speaking as a diagnosed person with ASD, Amber actually fits very well into general descriptions and experiences of women with ASD (who actually tend to present very differently from men), whether Willis purposely means to write her that way or not. And he did mention that he – a person who has said he may be on the spectrum himself- based some of Amber’s aspects on himself.
Also, just because Dina is “further” on the spectrum or more obvious about it doesn’t mean Amber can’t be on it herself. Many real-life women who have ASD don’t fit the more stereotypical mainstream ideas of ASD the way Dina does.
I’m sorry if this question seems a little too personal, but when exactly did you discover you had ASD?
Do you think you would have grown up or turned out differently if you had discovered you were autistic sooner or later? Or not at all?
I figured out I likely had it either around when I was in college or a little bit after. I was officially diagnosed around 2019.
I think if I had discovered I was autistic sooner, not much would have changed, because my mother wasn’t really open to finding interventions and aids for me or my brother…mostly because she was (highly likely to have been) autistic herself and didn’t know how to even begin to navigate the systems of testing and diagnosis and subsequent processes of getting supports.
I think, though, that knowing what my specific issues were earlier in life would have helped a lot emotionally. All of my issues just seemed like a nameless cluster of evidence that I was just a horrible, lazy, incompetent person despite being “so smart” as I was often accused of when I was younger. Being able to name that cluster as an actual condition shared by many others with similar experiences helped me realize that I wasn’t just fucked up and weird and annoying.
To people who are willing to listen and learn, like at work, it’s also helped me to feel braver about asking for what I need – more time on a project, more space to myself, specific work conditions, etc. Being able to say “I’m autistic” makes people more willing to show understanding and accommodation than they would if I were just a weird demanding freak, which they might otherwise see me as.
Discovering I’m autistic has also helped me to actually pinpoint my symptoms and thus look for help. It never even occurred to me I might have anxiety or OCD until I started looking into the symptoms ASD women have and how they present. Once I was aware that what I was going through WAS anxiety and OCD, I was finally able to seek treatment. My life and relationships have improved immeasurably due to this.
I know that was long but I hope that answered your question.
Even if it was long, this was necessary and answered my inquiry perfectly.
I myself am only beginning to realize what my S.A.D. and vocal dysphoria (and loads of other quirks) mean for me, and must I say your BEAUTIFUL words give me confidence that, just as you did with your ASD, I can gain the same kind of COURAGE and acceptance from others the very same way with my own unique stripes of neurodivergence!!!
A very welcome break, for regarding others calling me “autistic” for decades, I was fed a poisonous version of a label that was supposed to enrich my life.
You’ve mentioned your vocal dysphoria a number of times, and I’m curious what you mean by that? If it’s what I think/what it sounds like, I may also have that. I just am more familiar with the phrase in the context of trans people, and I don’t know if this is that or something else.
When I start hearing my own voice, it makes me feel so awful, like I just wanna stop talking and give up then and there. It just feels so wrong to me, and when I listen to recordings of it its just so painfully embarrassing and awful and a personal fucking NIGHTMARE. It was to the point to which when I did assignments where I had to record myself, I wouldn’t DARE listen to it and just HOPED I did it right.
It’s a big part of why in-person communication is so difficult for me. I begin talking for a bit, then my own voice painfully echos in me and causes a vicious feedback loop that makes it all crash.
As for the trans part, I myself am actually questioning / gender-fluid, but I get the impression that my vocal dysphoria isn’t as much a gender thing as much as it is due to my stripes of neurodivergence.
I get that. For me, a lot of my feelings toward my voice are connected to my speech impediment–and some the speech therapy I had, a bit of which was specifically about listening to my recorded voice and noticing where it was “wrong.” When I was in middle school, I had a period of trying to figure out what kind of injury I could give myself to make it so I wouldn’t be capable of speech so that people would stop expecting it from me.
And yeah, I have stories of assignments where I had to record myself–specifically for Spanish classes– and if I listened back to it and tried to do it over, I’d just get worse because of growing anxiety about my voice.
These days, I’d say I’m doing better, but I’d still never seek out an experience where I’d hear myself recorded. I still have my speech impediment, but I manage it in a way where it comes out sounding like an accent to a lot of people (I get asked where I’m from a lot). Which still kind of sucks, at times! But mostly talking in person doesn’t bother me, unless I become too aware of it by catching my voice on particular note or thinking specifically about my voice– that does make this particular subject literally hard to talk about, though.
*starts typing out a really personal traumatic story*
*questions how appropriate it is for this place*
*proceeds to delete it*
But what is the internet for if not oversharing?
…No?
(Not actually meant to persuade you into sharing anything!)
More than anything in life, I seek to be actually be UNDERSTOOD by others, when I have been painfully misunderstood for so, SO long.
And I at this point I have to accept that it isn’t possible for people to understand me unless they know my story, where I’m coming from.
So in a way, I guess for me to have to eventually share this is inevitable.
Better now then never.
OH GOD, HERE IT GOES
[DISTURBING CONTENT INCOMING]
Even though I never had any ****official**** diagnosis of autism myself, my parents and family and all kinds of people around me INSISTED that I was, and used that as a reason to infantilize me, hold me back from all kinds of things, reprimand me, helicopter me, subject me to endless, debilitating micromanagement, to send me to therapist after therapist (as if the problem wasn’t THEM) and especially bully and abuse me (
my parents and teachers would pin me down with all their weight on more than one occasion). Nobody, not even my own parents ever never saw me as my own person, and my personality and idiosyncrasies, my intelligence, everything that made me unique was glossed over with that one label — “autistic”. My own mother even threatened to send me to a mental hospital on one occasion. My father didn’t do this, but he was just as abusive (actually even more so), and even called methe R-wordmore than once.The worse part was that even after I got an official diagnosis of S.A.D., they STILL insisted on calling me “autistic” and continued to treat me in the same AWFUL, AGONIZING ways.
Since then, I have read it as offensive and insensitive in general to label people as autistic, because that’s my scar, that’s the significance the word always had to me — an excuse to restrain someone, an excuse to excessively restrict, an excuse to say you don’t know how to help so try anything even if its abusive — an excuse to hold someone back, an excuse to paint over their personality with one big brush stroke, to not even make an effort to understand them at all, to lump them all together into one category, to become the subject of some occasional news story just to disappear once again.
The word has become very traumatic for me, to the point to which being called “autistic” makes me experience this horrendous downward mental spiral of AWFUL memories, excessive self-consciousness, past humiliation, embarrassment, the feeling that my life, my mind is not my own, fear, and my mind, my personality slipping away, melting away to conform to, get replaced, get puppeteered by the label itself. It’s like an awful bad drug trip, and I need to use all my will, all my fighting spirit to hold it back.
Even though I know there’s probably no ill intent amongst you commenters and any other people I interact with, it still really saddens me to see people preemptively putting the autistic label on others (even if they’re just fictional characters that I relate to), and extrapolating personality traits and assuming aspects of them and how they should act based on that projected label, instead of getting to know the nuances, quirkiness and uniqueness of their personality and why they actually are the way they are. When people on Facebook and YouTube make videos and posts with phrases like “mildy artistic”, I get infuriated, because I know what they REALLY mean by that and it feels like the most insidious mockery.
OH GOD I’M ACTUALLY DOING THIS HERE GOES NOTHING NOW OR NEVER
Lord Willis I am SO SO sorry if this is inappropriate for the community here im just so desperate to be understood and im just a mess and half the time i don’t even know what im doing
PLEASE PLEASE HAVE MERCY!!!!
🥺
“the thing I’m interested in is how you’d think someone so hyper critical of themselves would be constantly afraid of being hurtful” I don’t understand your question.
I wasn’t posing it as a question, I was thinking about Amber as someone who constantly judges everything she does and could do then rushes into a subject you’d think she’d have some awareness of being a sensitive one.
A thing I have noticed with women with ASD, which Amber shows a ton of symptoms of, is that we are often extremely anxious about hurting or offending people – but then, when we ACTUALLY do something that hurts or offends someone, we either totally miss that we were offensive/hurtful or we double down because we think we were justified in what we did/said. Aaaand that’s why a lot of neurotypical people see us as assholes.
Makes sense. I’m definitely hypercritical of hurting someone else, but I also have no Off button so if I like to joke around with a friend I’ll eventually reach a point where I stop being charming about it. Not in the specific context of “Amber talking about X subject without tact,” more that I eventually cross a boundary.
Wendy, Spencer, I don’t know whether or not I’m “autistic” but I am neurodivergent and gender-fluid (just on the border of questioning), and must I say I TOTALLY relate and find myself doing this all the time.
I’ve been plagued by ADHD all my life and the only reason I know is that I described my tendency to get lost in a fixation so hard that hours fly before I notice, and then someone went “bruh that’s hyperfocus.”
It’s worth getting a diagnosis, if only to know what it is not.
Interesting that you said that.
I actually did get a formal diagnosis, and even though it said I had obsessive compulsive symptoms like this among other things, as significant as they were they were it was but ONE POINT off of diagnosing me with obsessive compulsive disorder, and said that it was better explained by the other diagnoses / as a coping mechanism of sorts for them.
Or maybe I was just misdiagnosed. Who knows really? Given how much of this kind of stuff is new and how much research on it is biased and has dubious intentions and how this kind of psychology in general came out of a REALLY bad place, diagnostics can get REALLY tricky and even when it comes from a professional it’s only slightly better than a blind guess. For instance, until recently, ADHD and ASD were never seen as conditions that can occur together, even though they have tons of overlap (source), and besides that all kinds of categories of different flavors of neurodivergence are changing EVERY DAY, shifting around like an ancient fucking maze or something.
TL;DR Current diagnostic categories, professional or armchair, are not gods. And hopefully if you’re not unlucky, or at least if you’re not ME, you won’t have to learn that the hard way.
ughhhhh bunch of duplicate comments today. am i the only one with that issue? i’ll write a comment, especially a short one, especially if i’ve written another one recently, and it just won’t appear. i click post, the page loads, my comment isn’t there.
then, if i try to post the exact same comment i get a message saying “it looks like you’ve already tried to say that!”
So i make a subtly different comment, i’ll also delete my email address from the “URL” field just in case, sometimes that one goes through, sometimes it doesn’t, at which point i usually give up unless i think my joke is absolutely crucial. it’s annoying.
Is it just me???
And then today, for whatever reason, at some point all the first-attempt comments i’ve made that hadn’t gotten published ended up appearing, making me look like an idiot ^^
ah, well.
Oh, sorry, I found them in spam and got confused and unspammed them.
oh ok, i thought it was some glitch. thanks for letting me know =)
Why is Ethan mad at Danny ? What did I miss again :/
Textually, they had a fight. Danny stuck his foot in his mouth by asking if it’d be that bad if it took a while for Mike to wake up, which escalated to Danny telling Ethan he’d have let Mike laugh at Danny if he was comatose and Ethan saying he would. Similarly off the handle, but the undercurrent was in Ethan passively tolerating Mike’s abuse.
Subtextually, I get the feeling Ethan actually had feels for Danny, and then felt betrayed by their last fight.
They had feelings for each other for sure, but neither moved on them. Ethan needs to move on. He is keeping everyone at length. I mean Amber was his only real friend besides Mike! Now he won’t even listen really to her either. Socially isolating.
He needs to move on after 3/4 months? Damn.
How do you know he’s keeping “everyone” at length? He just hasn’t been shown interacting with any other characters. It’s like Marcie and Sal. Marcie was tired of being collateral damage to Sal’s fighting. Ethan’s probably tired of being collateral damage of Amber’s self-destructive behaviors and de facto emotional crutch, especially since he’s made it clear that having his own problems around her is exhausting when she constantly takes them and centers them around herself
The difference is that Sal put in the effort to change and grow past her old habits whereas Amber doesn’t seem to have done much self-reflection at all
Amber finds the idea she’s got value offensive and is so full of self-loathing her positive self-image became a different person.
The answer is primarily this comic and the couple that follow it:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/04-is-a-song-forever/alonetime/
Thanks, don’t know how I could forget that…
I think the whole death of Mike and how it was told feels so out of place that I just forgot most of it :/
Don’t know what it is but whenever a character has their eyes closed and looking down thing going on, like in panel 1, they always come off looking smug and self-satisfied
Amber can do better than Ethan.
Am I alone thinking its entirely okay for Ethan to cut Danny out of his life?
In general, I think he is completely autonomous in deciding his own social relationships with others just as with any other individual human being, so no, I do not think you are alone in this regard.
After damage has been done to a relationship, there may be a time of separation to reflect on what happened.
As “unusually” long as it may seem to be for Ethan, as long as he’s not violating anyone else’s basic freedoms or entitlements, he has NOTHING to answer for.
Being unnecessarily mean to Amber among other people, however, is a different story.
He’s not being unnecessarily mean, Amber came to him to justify her problems, then made a creepy comment… He told her what she was doing and said goodbye
I mean, in the sense that anyone is allowed to cut anyone out of their lives, sure. You don’t owe any of your peers social interaction.
Nah. No one is obligated to maintain a friendship with anyone they don’t want to. Danny definitely hurt Ethan in the hospital scene, intentionally or not, and I can understand why Ethan wouldn’t want to stay friends. Heck, I could even see him justifying cutting Amber off too.
There was no way this interaction was going to end well, Amber confronted with Ethan in a bad mood wouldn’t know what to do, and would probably just tried to treat things lightly to see if it diffuses, Ethan is no mood of of making any emotional work for the others right now and still in a grieving and wanting to be miserable right now. It worries me seeing him so skinny and with bags under his eyes, but people just carrying on is not something he will feel amused at.
The relationship probably can be salvaged but right now looks like anything other lightest of touches could make it worse… And that is going to be hard..
Hit too close?
I support this title for the book. That is all.