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I realized your automatically-applied pictured of Joyce, and my commissioned artwork of myself look very similar. Also, Joyce’s history was very similar to my own (hardcore christian turned hardcore not-christian while in college but still struggling with prudish tendencies and overcoming them and being completely befuddled by… hanky panky), and to top it off, Joyce’s name is a derivative of my own. And the original comic series was introduced shortly after it had started to me back in college while I was aspiring to be a webcomic artist with a few others who were so aspiring as well.
Willis…. Did… did you attend GU? Is Joyce based off me?
Joe and Dorothy are strictly Meta status, regardless of the weird interconnected web of romance in the air around their vicinities. Even if she approves of Joe’s changes, I don’t think she’ll ever fully forgive him for knowing him in high school, literally half a year ago.
I mean, look back at how Joe acted with Joyce the first time around. Where he was all sweet and going along with whatever to her face, but behind her back very cheerfully informing both Danny, Sarah, and even Mike that he was going to bang her to ‘fix’ her. Now realize that Dorothy had a front-row seat to Joe forming and refining those tactics over the past couple years, as one of the ones who gets those pre- (and likely post-)action reports. Over. And over. And over. No matter how much distaste you express for it.
I mean, maybe something more specific happened too, but even just that much is plenty to decide you’re done with a person who was really only ever the friend of your now-ex boyfriend
and as we’ve also discovered, Walky was overall very good for Dorothy in several ways (yes, I know, not every ways), and she’s realized almost as fast as the rest of us, that she was utterly dumb as hell to break it off with him.
I think her plan has worked actually. Pre-masturbation Joyce probably would’ve jump Cochise first into Joe’s face. His butt would never recover from pre-masturbation Joyce.
Yeah, Joyce brings out something very vulnerable in him, but it makes sense. This is an all-new frontier for him, and we know that, for any of his faults before, relationships are something he actually takes very seriously. He just felt unworthy of being in one, and that finally has changed, so he isn’t the same “who cares if I fuck up, don’t place your faith in me to begin with” guy anymore. There are actual stakes now.
One of my favorite DoA comics of all time, is the one after Joe switches Joyce’s rating on his Hot Girl Chart all the way down to zero…and she instantly reads him like a book, catching that “my original number must have been absurdly high, to trigger a complete over-correction such as this.”
I think a major aspect of why Joe and Joyce’s characters work so well together, in this setting, is that Joe and Joyce both obviously comes from a deep-seated background of sexual shame and insecurity, imparted onto them by a patriarchy; but, they are foils, as Joyce represents the harm done to women by a strict religious patriarchy, while Joe alternately represents the harm done to men, even in a less-fundamentalist, secular form of patriarchy.
Joyce has to unpack her social assignment to the anti-sex; Joe has to unpack his social assignment to the omni-sex. But, both of these externally-enforced boxes which both of them have felt forced into, have clearly caused each of them an immense amount of shame, guilt, and repression. Joyce completely repressed any aspect of sexuality, whereas Joe completely repressed every aspect of interpersonal relations except sexuality; because, Joyce’s patriarchy enforced upon her that she was perpetually meant to be above lust and sexual feelings via her station as a woman, while Joe’s patriarchy enforced upon him that he was perpetually meant to be above sincere emotional connections, and romantic feelings; Joyce was taught that her normal physical urges meant that nobody would want her, if they weren’t “saved” for her future husband, while Joe was taught that his emotional wants and needs meant he wasn’t good enough to be a man to anybody, because he feared emulating some aspects of his fathers’ behavior that he knows he doesn’t agree with, yet he finds constantly that society expects that exact behavior from him.
Both come from a place of feeling as if they are ruined partners unworthy of love, because of their completely normal physical needs, and because of their completely normal qualms about their own socialization. It’s a great foil, and I’m sad it took me this long to work it out, properly.
has danny or any of his hookups mentioned that? even as young college kids, who has the time, i imagine it’d be a couple hours and then sleeping/crashing over at their room if they don’t just sneak back to their own dorm, joe does have more experience and known for being a ‘player’ but i feel like we would’ve heard danny complain more about being ‘sexiled’ if he did go for thatl ong lol
if the slipshine isn’t written as “every time Joyce begins to feel post-coital shame, she gets a deep, loving kiss from Joe, and then they both immediately go again, like six-plus times in one evening,” then IDK what people are paying for, lmao
I agree. That’s why his encounter with Liz is so important to his story; she taught him that pushing though the nagging doubts of “too much, too fast” can only lead to tears.
Joyce’s repression is one thing, but Joe actually has some very unhealthy feelings about sex right now too. Specifically sex as part of a relationship. I think once they do have sex and find that it’s something they can both enjoy and find not harmful, it will be good for them. But I’m not sure they’re ready for that hurdle yet.
There should be a frank discussion between the two of them on how they feel on the subject first, but we’re still a ways from that. Joe doesn’t want to talk about it because the guy is just a mess of toxic masculinity so talking about having problems with sex is a big nope. And Joyce has no reason to believe the problem exists yet because Joe has a reputation of being ready for sex whenever, and she’s barely begun to acknowledge herself as a sexual being.
Yesss i would love to see Joyce deconstruct dorothy as an authority figure in a way that humanizes her for her mistakes. Dorothy has to learn she cant minmax life, even with her friends, or she’s gonna combust. That aside, i also enjoy the directness joyce has been exercising. Joe really brings it out of her man i love joeyce
She’s going to crash again, harder than the first time, because her expectations for herself are still unreasonable. I don’t know if it will be enough, Joyce (and Walky) having more reasonable expectations (it will help a lot though).
Arnold+Dorothy isn’t just a bit, I think Dorothy would benefit a lot from a new friend whom she has no history with, who recognizes she’s ordinary. Arnold was pretty grounded in the other strip, but it doesn’t have to be him.
Also, I am feeling some very petty pride about calling this one. Masturbation does not lessen sex drive, Dorothy – if anything, it helped Joyce embrace hers (good outcome, but not Dorothy’s intention).
I think for some people, it can give you post-nut clarity. But Joyce is hypersexual. Joyce may have post-nut clarity for like five minutes, and then go back to pre-nut mania.
I for one have never understood what ‘post nut clarity’ was supposed to be. The only thing I want after an orgasm is moar orgasm. Or, possibly, to snuggle up to my partner(s) and get some sleep.
I am not doing any deep thinking nor do I experience any sort of clarity – in fact, by preference, I’m not doing much thinking at all. Feeling, sure – post orgasmic bliss is an emotional high difficult to match.
Oh, no, post nut clarity is real for some people. Like, if you’re ever super antsy and kinda wigging out emotionally, masturbating is a good release for lots of those body/brain chemicals and feelings, and it can make you feel calmer ahead of something that scares you. Kinda like trading the freeze/fight/flight response you normally have with ‘fuck’.
Yeah for me it’s basically “okay cool thats out of the way, I can stop being distracted and move on with my day.” Being horny is kind of a debuff imo and getting off is just the ritual to lift it, but it’s varies person to person
Put me down as in favor of the “Friendly Fire” option. I have a very vivid imagination, and prefer the possibilities that become available with “non-mouth places”.
Friendly Fire just makes me think about a collab with Howard “Schlock Mercenary” Taylor, yannow? Which was the Maxim about friendly fire and company mess easier to tell apart?
I might actually have to try that out, if I can find some turkey in this podunk town. You’d think it’d be easy out in the country but noooo, it’s all deli meat and dehydrated nonsense.
Getting a small meat grinder for making ground turkey in a stupid rural area is one of the better single-purpose-kitchen-gizmo purchases I’ve ever made.
Because she’s been taught all her life that wanting sex is evil, and has barely begun to detach herself from all the toxic christianity she grew up with.
She doesn’t want, or feel ready, to take that leap yet- as much as she knows she would enjoy it in the moment. She knows she’s not ready, and she knows her own self control, so she’s sticking to temptations she’s ready to face.
The horny will eat you alive from the inside out if you’re close to temptation. Her body wants it so bad that she probably will snap one minute and bang the crap out of Joe and then regret it post-coitus.
But something tells me Joe, in his character development, will abstain from banging Joyce because she obviously isn’t emotionally ready to deal with the post-sex shame. And Joyce might think there’s something wrong with her because the aspiring professional gigolo won’t bang her.
The “snap and suck a billion dicks” trope exists for a reason. When your only learned form of impulse control is to plug your ears and shout “LA LA LA” at your desires, you’re not going to learn moderation easily. Of course, I’m not sure if containing the Gates of Heaven: Billion Dick Succ technique to just the one dick is any better.
I find it amazing Willis’s decision on making Joe and Joyce discuss serious points about their life, fears and desires, but they still haven’t kissed. No irony.
But the mental image of DoA Sarah just ripping it out of Bowie-as-Jareth whilst he looked increasingly put out and taken aback by it all is hysterical!!
I would not put it past willis to give Joe and Dotty one more big blow out fight about Joyce’s sexual awakening and Joyce just breaking everyone’s mind and being down to clown with both.
The sheer drama of it all would be *weeks* worth of easy content.
Joyce probably eats her burgers with 3 dots of ketchup forming a triangles on the chesee and picks the pickles off to eat them separately and mustard on the side but doesn’t eat the mustard. Joe idk probably no pickles though.
Except when the sauce is very clearly “different food”, as we’ve heard from Joyce before.
As Tesset says, it’s not really about logical, consistent rules, even if she presents it as such.
I suspect, like with mac & cheese, burgers get grandfathered in as “one food” she’s had long enough she thinks of them that way.
OCD anxieties don’t tend to be logical or have rules that can be consistently followed, unfort. I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes problematic sometimes too – Joyce’s food aversions are generally trending worse, not better.
…and she’s right, of course! For the clavicle, although it has a cloven hoove, is not in the habit of chewing its cud. It’s right before where it says condiments are not to be mingled.
All this goes right out of the window once she realizes that as a Christian, she’s not bound by Leviticus. I think it was Peter the Fisherman who shrewdly realized he could invite his congregation to shell out on crayfish.
I always imagined that some Temple priest in history had a shellfish allergy. He had a bad experience or two, and was like “yikes, God does not want us to eat these!! D:”
Tee Hee… “quench”.
Like a thirsty person suddenly drinking wet stuff.
Like a roaring fire put out by wet stuff.
Like a fire-hot iron (future) sword dipped into wet stuff over and over, before being pounded hard, and then the process repeats.
I feel like the buns might be a safer territory for Joyce. The hot dog might feel too personal, so her keeping it to the bun area might feel less directly sexual.
It’s possible to find people beautiful without sexual interest involved, you know. I, for example, am very ace, but I am fully capable of seeing and acknowledging beauty.
I find it really amusing that Joe/Joyce, Walky/Lucy, and Danny/Sal are all giving heavy thought to their sexual life, but from wildly different angles and with different approaches.
I wouldn’t even necessarily call any of them unhealthy, exactly, like there is unnecessary ritual to Lucy/Walky, but it’s something that they full acknowledge and are aware of. Sal is probably thirstier than Danny is, but that, too, isn’t that big a deal when we know they are fully on-board, it’s just a matter of when.
Joe and Joyce are coming from very different experience levels, but that’s honestly very normal, especially for their age. Both have reasons, likely, to want to take it slow, and Joyce is unwrapping a lot of repression. It’s just got a lot of layers, and even if she’s an oddball, that she’s doing this at all is where I feel like she can be called on a good path, especially at her age. This would have been a lot rougher if she was having to save these conversations for another decade or two.
Willis is actually the best webcomic writer I’ve ever seen at work.
This is precisely why. Most writers tackle a theme by having one pivot character on which it turns and letting everyone else be a perspective on how that character makes their choice. The good ones do two characters. Willis is weaving together three pairs (technically, 3+1 if you count the echo of Danny/Amber that Sal is perfectly aware of, too) and doing it fantastically, with other themes being plate-spun too.
(And by “character”, I don’t just mean a single person, but language gets wibbly if I can’t rely on jargon.)
Jesus Christ, each time I’m starting to enjoy Joyce and Joe ship, Joyce have to put some small signal, some glimpse of interest on Dorothy or another friend. Again.
Or this or in big moments, like the entire laundry episode.
I know this couple is endgame. They’re getting along well: Joe is able to untangle a lot of problems of Joyce’s feelings. Not counting that he’s big and hot.
But I’m getting tiring of this teasing of her. I already stopped to complaining about Joyce having choose him.
“Learned how to socialize with other ladies from closeted lesbian who was crushing hard” is still plausible, but if Willis is trying to make that equally likely to bisexuality or at least biromantic, it doesn’t seem that way.
In the laundry episode, Joyce did tell Dorothy to leave before she came. Like that intimacy wasn’t for her. Maybe some of the laundry scene was symbolic, that Joyce has affection for Dorothy, but Dorothy missed her chance, being somewhat distant for months.
She’s in particular talking like Leslie Knope, who also gives of bi vibes.
I don’t think that last line is a reference to Joyce having feelings for Dorothy, like, at all. Willis isn’t just writing a bunch of queerbaiting ships, not to mention calling your friend beautiful doesn’t mean you’re attracted to them. Like maybe since you ship D/J it comes off as a dig at your ship, but I would bet my paycheck that’s not even close to what Willis meant with that line.
I wasn’t talking only about the laundry situation.
Look, I agree with you about the “beautiful”comment, but I felt like the speech was completly unecessary. If just she said “A brilliant idiot genius”, it could be understandable that Joyce starting to take Dorothy from pedestal. Right?
And I’ll never call it queerbaiting.Willis is doing a incredible work in DoA, bringing lot of great couples to us. It’s not fair.
@Big Z: No.
Long answer: don’t make it a big deal. More than 80% of readers have agreed with Joyce x Joe. Why should you care about me?
And I agree that people suffering each strip about something they don’t like is kinda of pathetic.
What speech? Joyce said a single sentence, and I guess a noun phrase at the end. She’s not teasing Dorothy she’s like “dammit I’m still horny! curse you!”
I’m enjoying watching Joe continuing to realize just how much repressed horniness is wound tightly into the core of Joyce’s being. Is this power too much even for him? Maybe….
I’m thinking the erotic eating scene out of Hot Shots!, myself.
Come to think, Joyce could use Ramona’s amazingly ridiculous line, “I’m a virgin. I’m just not very good at it,” and mean something entirely different.
I kinda wanna give Joe some minor props for something else, here. Joyce is setting certain boundaries, nebulous and strange in reason though they may be, and he’s simply respecting them, complete with verbal confirmation of what she’s said.
I know that’s not a high bar to clear, and we’re supposed to be actively hostile and slam boys/men down for “wanting a cookie” for basic decency like this (whether they asked for one or not, usually not) and make them feel guilty for doing what’s expected of them, but… Nah, fuck that. He’s grown a lot in a short time and that needs to be encouraged, give the guy a cookie. It’s a fucking cookie, not an Olympic medal and the key to the city. Toll House churns them out by the millions, why are we being so precious with the goddamn cookies?
No hang on, I got more shit nobody asked about. The whole attitude people have of “What, you want a parade” or whatever elaborate celebration they sneer at anyone who expresses even minor joy about getting something right, it’s shitty and worthless. If somebody does the right thing and feels good about it for a few seconds, and your first instinct is to act like they’re inconveniencing you with their joy, you’re a shitty fucking person and deserve the death penalty. I can’t count how many times all somebody had to do was keep their smug fucking mouth shut and let me be happy for literally the duration of a sentence, and instead they decided to act like I was contacting the news to demand a press conference with blackjack and hookers. All that does is teach people that expressing any amount of joy, no matter how small and brief, is unacceptable and deserving of punishment. That’s damage, it’s trauma, and anyone who does it can go hug an oxygen tank in a burning building.
I am also happy with giving Joe a cookie. Given that the two of them are very much working out what their boundaries are, together, and that things he may not have anticipated to be problems (being alone in closed rooms, snogging sessions) apparently are problems for her – and he’s just accepting them, because her comfort comes above his horny, even though he is learning that she also has the horny and that part of the problem is that scares the everloving poop out of her – even though she is also (and OK, because sometimes more cartoon than others) LITERALLY FORCING STUBBLE IN AND OUT OF HIS FACE… He is being appropriately gentle with the emotions of a girl working to overcome both trauma and also repression, while working to work out what she actually wants, with probable autism, going through a lot of other changes that she’s finding rough. He’s doing great. Heck, keep this up much longer and he’ll qualify for an ice cream sandwich…
Also, the people snuffing out your joy and pride in your accomplishments were being really unkind. You are allowed to feel good about your successes. You are allowed to celebrate your achievements. Your hard work paying off, or good fortune, or people recognising that day in, day out, you’re trying and being a decent human being – those are all worthy of acknowledgement and recognition. You are entitled to those seratonin boosts (which are basically your brain doing its best to give you cookie-equivalents)! Assuming no diabetes or other reasons making cookies a bad idea, you get cookies too! (And if those things you should have at least got an “I’m so proud of you” from someone whose opinion matters to you. Because you deserve to be seen and to have your good recognised.)
Sorry this comment made me cry. I mostly agree with Taffy btw, though I’ve never come close to vocalising it.
My family are a mix of autistic/avoidant anxious people and a mix of extremely fiery extraverted arrogant people. I’m having to try to organise a big initiative across three different families all over the place to look after my mom who’s mind is starting to fail and it’s ruined her finances and jeopardised her health and safety. It means I’m having to email a lot, very difficult subjects, to a mixed audience of personalities, and being that I’m a mediator type, means I’m having to soothe the arrogant people who don’t react well to the anxious avoidant people, who I also have to reaffirm that their contributions do have value and they are appreciated… All while being so stressed about every single aspect of this, it feels like I’m living years in days. So to hear someone say “you’re allowed to feel proud of your successes”, I had this family dynamic where the arrogant personalities seized social control and lambasted literally any sign of burgeoning self confidence in the anxious avoidant ones, and I’ve felt uneasy in every single social group where I see that dynamic in place, and it’s so, *so* relieving to hear someone say “sapping joy is unkind, you’re allowed to celebrate your successes” – thank you for this.
And I agree totally, Joe is doing phenomenally here, as I felt like he likely would, he was amazing with Joyce in It’s Walky, and I’m so danged excited to have a proper Joe/Joyce ship here in DoA.
I mean. Okay I know comparing people to dogs is a bad thing or whatever but I like dogs and pavlovian training is cool; that’s how you train good behavior. Literally giving cookings for small things done right. Positive reinforcement. That’s how you teach kids, you reward them for doing good things. I’m not saying treat grown people like dogs and children but, the principle is there, it’s supported and we use it in life all the time. Celebrate little victories, y’know?
Hell, a lot of the time, I’d even accept ignoring little victories. If it’s ignored, at least other people are giving you the space to celebrate on your own. Instead, it seems like the entire world is designed to punish literally everything you do. Not for any moral, ethical, reasonable, helpful, or even practical reason, but for its own sake.
1.) I love ground beef all mixed up with bell peppers and onions and garlic and tomato and carrots and all sorts of delicious spices, hand-formed into patties and grilled over an open flame. With a slice of thick-cut sharp cheddar cheese melted on top. Served on whole grain toast with sesame seeds. Happy childhood memories.
2.) Fave date food is watermelon. It’s such an unselfconscious food!
Burger mode: Take the ground beef, roll it in whatever seasonings you want. I usually go for simple salt and pepper, but if I wanna get elaborate I’ll add in some curry powder or chipotle, garlic, and a little splash of soy sauce on each patty. Slap those fuckers on the heating surface and cook ’em til you’re satisfied with the color, preferably a little char is involved for that extra goodness. Once they’re done, toss ’em onto the nearest bun-shaped object and top ’em with lettuce*, a fuck-off massive slab of a tomato slice, onions in some shape or other, American or Colby-Jack cheese*, and maybe even a couple strips of bacon if I’m feeling ornery. The bun of course has whatever mayo equivalent is nearby, ketchup*, and if the moon is in alignment with shut the fuck up, a single swirl of mustard.
Naturally, this burger has to be served with either plain salted potato chips or literally anything made of a potato that says “fries” on the bag. Figure out your own dipping situation, I’m not your fucking mother.
*Fuck off, it’s my fucking burger, eat yours how you want and get your nasty fucking fingers out of mine
Date food: A little Chinese or Mexican wouldn’t fuckin’ kill ya. If it would, go pick up some Wendy’s or somethin’. Or cook ’em some chicken tikka. bongoes love chicken tikka.
Taffy’s burger is surprisingly close. I mean definitely no curry, and Chipotle is preferred. The ketchup should go, Chinese mustard is better. The bacon is mandatory and you should add avacodo and sautéed mushrooms.
If it’s a good date, the food is unimportant background.
I don’t eat meat, and I have medical restrictions, so I make my own veggie burgers from scratch. Like a batch at a time, and then freeze them. Lentil-chipotle to be more precise than “veggie”. I’ve gotten a lot better at them, but I’m uncertain how others like them. Nobody will say, “too much X” or “not enough Y”.
I’d love cheddar on them, but I mostly just use swiss nowadays.
There’s no wrong way to eat a burger. I tend to favor a ‘standard’ with lettuce, tomato, onions, and sauce (whether it be ketchup or a ‘secret’ sauce of mayo/ketchup, etc). BBQ and onion rings work well for a different flavor, as does avocado. Or eggs. Potatoes of any kind directly on the burger.
My go to ‘date dish’ when I was dating was a pasta dish, chicken broccoli alfredo. Being married now, we have a few date dishes, like a BBQ pulled pork quesadilla that was served at our wedding.
I make homemade veggie burgers/sausages sometimes, but I don’t that often coz it takes a little while.
*Cooked veg of choice (e.g. fried in a TSP or so of oil: onions/mushrooms/bell peppers/diced spinach, boiled/sautéed: carrots/peas/sweetcorn, as is: olives/sun-dried tomatoes/pre-boiled vacuum packed beetroot [beets in the US])
*A tin of beans of two depending on quantity (black beans/chick peas [garbanzo in US I think]/red kidney beans – whatever’s to hand – drained)
*Either breadcrumbs, oats or mashed potato (but that one makes for a much softer finish) or a mix (to firm)
*1-2 eggs depending on quantity (to bind)
*1-2 handfuls of grated/chopped cheese (usually cheddar, sometimes feta, sometimes a mix, will sometimes include Stilton…)
*Herbs/spices to go with whatever flavour profile I’m putting together
Fry up the fried veg with the herbs/spices. Empty into a large bowl. Use stick blender. Add beans. Personal preference whether to slurry those or leave some texture. Mix in the egg, cheese and (breadcrumbs/oats/potato). Use a tablespoon to form mixture into either sausage shapes or burger rounds on non-stick paper on a microwave-safe plate. Nuke til firm. Transfer to either a tray or pan and fry/bake until they look cooked.
It can be a good way to use up odds and ends in the fridge, my kids love it when I make them (and the 8 and 5 year old really like meat… 3 year old is a pescetarian and this is just about the only way he eats mushrooms these days) – and the recipe also works with silicone food moulds so I tend to also make up a batch of little veggie piggies while I’m at it, which I find funny at any rate!
There are some good veggie ones but what I fancy varies!
Dorothy’s solution wasn’t baseless. But she started out from herself, who planned her entire life around schedules and balancing acts.
Joyce has a balloon full of sexual frustration ready to burst. While giving her a valve to relieve the pressure inside it was nice of Dorothy(with some caveats as to her execution other comments could tell you a lot about), it also revealed the extent of that neglected desire to Joyce. A lot more things would need to be done before Joyce processes it how Dorothy does.
Meanwhile, Ruth has a lot of experience in teens failing to live up to an impossible standard, and hit the nail on the head.
To be fair, Joyce has a Lot of catching up with healthy dealing with these kinds of things and this was just the first step. Now she at least has a healthy outlet for the urges she Always had. The thirst she had for men like Ethan and Jake was pretty obvious. Thanks to this outlet she won’t suddenly explode.
She reminds me of a buddy I had in middle school. He was a lot like Joyce, pious, moral and all that stuff, he was planning to become a priest. I heard about him a decade or two later and not only did he start to party like wild but also hit someone with his car while driving drunk.
what Joyce is going through is reminding me of Anna in Shimoneta
grew up under the p*rn ban from her mother where any sexual thing is forbidden and pretty much raised to take the help of the anti p*rn movement after her mom, until she end up seeing dude MC’s penis (completely by a sequence of unfortunate events, like a gold ruberg machine where the end goal is pants being dropped) and that completely broke her after that she couldn’t think of anything else (still tried to maintain the anti-p*rn facade which was even funnier)
They also share some of the creepiness. Joyce did some shady things regarding Jacob, though she was nowhere near as bad as Anna. That girl tried to outright rape the protag because she thought it was for love and didn’t know it’s a bad thing.
What’s wrong with the expression. Joe loves sex, and pursues it for its own sake. That’s pretty much the definition of a (beloved)hobby. Should I be asking “what’s wrong with recreational sex”?
And he’d gotten a lot better by the time of the Liz incident.
See his talk with Joyce after his donut apology for the list – where she tells him that being viewed as nothing more than an object with something he wanted reminded her of Ryan.
The cheerfulness was fine, it was mostly Joe’s dehumanizing list and trying to avoid anything resembling emotions. Joe thought if he maintained maximum aloofness he could avoid hurting anybody, including himself. Touch no hearts, break no hearts. His experience with Liz taught him that he could still hurt someone, even himself, by avoiding serious feelings. Now he is learning to be more open and vulnerable with Joyce.
Keeping things casual is fine, but completely avoiding/ignoring the heart can get you blindsided.
Panel 2 made me laugh, reminded me of a Bob’s Burgers where someone tries to be sexy and calls kisses “mouth burgers”. It’s such a terrible nickname for kissing that it’s eternally locked in my brain that “kisses = mouth burgers”.
While Dorothy thought that if you have an outlet for sex feelings Joe might not look as an atractive option and was wrong with that, the action still helped as Joe not being the only option lets Joyce realize clearly she is still into him.
Joyce…. there’s only one way to get yourself to not permanently think of sex:
HAVE IT. Have enough sex to feel like it’s out of your system *for now*, and voila, your head is free to think of other things.
When i was a christian, i once tried to fast before easter. The idea was “don’t think of food, think of God“ – man did that backfire. Turns out i’m way better at thinking of God on a full stomach instead of when i’m focusing on the one thing i can’t have! it’s the same with sex.
Just go and have the sex. A lot of the sex.
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“feed a flame to make it burn itself out” but sometimes that backfires lolololol
“mouths on burgers” now I’m thinking of Meatwad
The bun is in your mind.
Meatwad is the bun, at least when he turns into a hotdog.
Except… Joyce said she stopped when she started dating Joe.
craving’s still there??
… Completely unrelated, but it just dawned on me…
I realized your automatically-applied pictured of Joyce, and my commissioned artwork of myself look very similar. Also, Joyce’s history was very similar to my own (hardcore christian turned hardcore not-christian while in college but still struggling with prudish tendencies and overcoming them and being completely befuddled by… hanky panky), and to top it off, Joyce’s name is a derivative of my own. And the original comic series was introduced shortly after it had started to me back in college while I was aspiring to be a webcomic artist with a few others who were so aspiring as well.
Willis…. Did… did you attend GU? Is Joyce based off me?
I’m very glad I was very wrong. Still feel uncomfortable reading that sequence as it’s presented.
That’s Our Dorothy! *laughtrack*
(bets that we cut to her in the next strip? Patreon people, hush.)
We’ll make this 3 way with dorothy happen yet
Joe and Dorothy are strictly Meta status, regardless of the weird interconnected web of romance in the air around their vicinities. Even if she approves of Joe’s changes, I don’t think she’ll ever fully forgive him for knowing him in high school, literally half a year ago.
One day we’ll know what happened… Probably… Maybe.
I mean, look back at how Joe acted with Joyce the first time around. Where he was all sweet and going along with whatever to her face, but behind her back very cheerfully informing both Danny, Sarah, and even Mike that he was going to bang her to ‘fix’ her. Now realize that Dorothy had a front-row seat to Joe forming and refining those tactics over the past couple years, as one of the ones who gets those pre- (and likely post-)action reports. Over. And over. And over. No matter how much distaste you express for it.
I mean, maybe something more specific happened too, but even just that much is plenty to decide you’re done with a person who was really only ever the friend of your now-ex boyfriend
I’m still rooting for Joyce to break up with Joe and become Dorothy’s girlfriend, actually. xD
Joyce can do so much better then Dotty for a WlW pairing.
About dang time.
“Beautiful Brilliant Idiot Genius” New book title?
I’m more into “I’m Starting to Think Maybe Dorothy’s Kind of Full of Crap Sometimes“, personally.
I was holding out for “Learning to Touch Myself Was Supposed to Help Me Quench These Thoughts,” but I grew up reading Harlan Ellison.
If Harlan Ellison had written that storyline: “‘Relent, libido!’ Said the Ticktockmom”, maybe?
Or perhaps, “The Beast That Shouted Love at the Start of the Spin Cycle” or “I Have No Laundry and I Must Cream.”
Really hit me as a Leslie Knope kind of line
Shortpacked, Book 13: Only Mouths On Burgers! ONLY BURGERS.
“Sorry ma’am, we only have hot dogs.”
“Joyce? Do you have any hangups regarding wieners in buns?”
“….”
How about soft tacos?
Wiiiiiitneeeess Uuuuultiiimaaaa
Darkness come, rend the shield of light
Dorothy: Such anticipation. This was not my intention.
Her romantic interest in Walky wasn’t a clue that she’s as defective as everyone else, Joyce?
walky’s like the junk food of boyfriends but at least he’s grown a little lol, but maybe some day she’ll find her perf match
As we’re discovering, everyone also finds Walky super hot.
and as we’ve also discovered, Walky was overall very good for Dorothy in several ways (yes, I know, not every ways), and she’s realized almost as fast as the rest of us, that she was utterly dumb as hell to break it off with him.
I think her plan has worked actually. Pre-masturbation Joyce probably would’ve jump Cochise first into Joe’s face. His butt would never recover from pre-masturbation Joyce.
Now picturing Joyce jumping Cochise first into Joe’s face… while yelling “Geronimoooo!” Seems appropriate… maybe not culturally, though.
I like how bashful Joe gets around Joyce. It’s so different from his original/usual calculated sleaze vibe, super refreshing to see imo.
Dumbing Joyce is starting to resemble her AU counterpart more and more imo as well.
Yeah, Joyce brings out something very vulnerable in him, but it makes sense. This is an all-new frontier for him, and we know that, for any of his faults before, relationships are something he actually takes very seriously. He just felt unworthy of being in one, and that finally has changed, so he isn’t the same “who cares if I fuck up, don’t place your faith in me to begin with” guy anymore. There are actual stakes now.
One of my favorite DoA comics of all time, is the one after Joe switches Joyce’s rating on his Hot Girl Chart all the way down to zero…and she instantly reads him like a book, catching that “my original number must have been absurdly high, to trigger a complete over-correction such as this.”
I think a major aspect of why Joe and Joyce’s characters work so well together, in this setting, is that Joe and Joyce both obviously comes from a deep-seated background of sexual shame and insecurity, imparted onto them by a patriarchy; but, they are foils, as Joyce represents the harm done to women by a strict religious patriarchy, while Joe alternately represents the harm done to men, even in a less-fundamentalist, secular form of patriarchy.
Joyce has to unpack her social assignment to the anti-sex; Joe has to unpack his social assignment to the omni-sex. But, both of these externally-enforced boxes which both of them have felt forced into, have clearly caused each of them an immense amount of shame, guilt, and repression. Joyce completely repressed any aspect of sexuality, whereas Joe completely repressed every aspect of interpersonal relations except sexuality; because, Joyce’s patriarchy enforced upon her that she was perpetually meant to be above lust and sexual feelings via her station as a woman, while Joe’s patriarchy enforced upon him that he was perpetually meant to be above sincere emotional connections, and romantic feelings; Joyce was taught that her normal physical urges meant that nobody would want her, if they weren’t “saved” for her future husband, while Joe was taught that his emotional wants and needs meant he wasn’t good enough to be a man to anybody, because he feared emulating some aspects of his fathers’ behavior that he knows he doesn’t agree with, yet he finds constantly that society expects that exact behavior from him.
Both come from a place of feeling as if they are ruined partners unworthy of love, because of their completely normal physical needs, and because of their completely normal qualms about their own socialization. It’s a great foil, and I’m sad it took me this long to work it out, properly.
I have nothing to respond with but that was so incredibly well written and I wish there was a button to show people did read and appreciate it
100% same, this was a fantastic read.
What Zee said
Agreed. Insightful.
Agreeing with the others. Great write up on their dynamic.
Yeah, I see his efforts. Actually, since a lot of books before.
Also: what do you mean about “AU counterpart”?
In this case, Walkyverse Joyce from Roomies/It’s Walky/Joyce & Walky
I need this book to end with them fucking. Give into the lust, Joyce. It is the way.
All 3 couples.
I can accept this. Sal did say she would strike at random. And Lucy is horny.
Lucy is to horny as water is to… Do they still do analogies in the SAT anymore? Or is that a relic from my era?
Simultaneously, or just concurrently?
Simultaneously, in the same room
So you’re pulling for the orgy?
Honestly, with Joe’s stamina, they could probably go for hours until Joyce has her post-coital shame.
has danny or any of his hookups mentioned that? even as young college kids, who has the time, i imagine it’d be a couple hours and then sleeping/crashing over at their room if they don’t just sneak back to their own dorm, joe does have more experience and known for being a ‘player’ but i feel like we would’ve heard danny complain more about being ‘sexiled’ if he did go for thatl ong lol
In one of the slipshine comics Roz states that “Joe’s best quality is his stamina”.
if the slipshine isn’t written as “every time Joyce begins to feel post-coital shame, she gets a deep, loving kiss from Joe, and then they both immediately go again, like six-plus times in one evening,” then IDK what people are paying for, lmao
Should I flag this one so Willis sees it, or what? I feel like The Willis needs to see this.
Joyce, just bang and get over these feelings. They’re not healthy.
I mean I see this heading towards Joyce trying to convince Joe to bang and Joe not being willing to, for fear of screwing it up.
I agree. That’s why his encounter with Liz is so important to his story; she taught him that pushing though the nagging doubts of “too much, too fast” can only lead to tears.
You make me remember this comment
So then he should be on top, that way he can only screw it down.
Eh Joyce also has to be READY to bang, and even though it might seem like she wants to, she might not be there yet.
The trauma of her sexual assault hasn’t really been dealt with in any way yet… So Yuuuuuuuuup.
Joyce’s repression is one thing, but Joe actually has some very unhealthy feelings about sex right now too. Specifically sex as part of a relationship. I think once they do have sex and find that it’s something they can both enjoy and find not harmful, it will be good for them. But I’m not sure they’re ready for that hurdle yet.
There should be a frank discussion between the two of them on how they feel on the subject first, but we’re still a ways from that. Joe doesn’t want to talk about it because the guy is just a mess of toxic masculinity so talking about having problems with sex is a big nope. And Joyce has no reason to believe the problem exists yet because Joe has a reputation of being ready for sex whenever, and she’s barely begun to acknowledge herself as a sexual being.
Yesss i would love to see Joyce deconstruct dorothy as an authority figure in a way that humanizes her for her mistakes. Dorothy has to learn she cant minmax life, even with her friends, or she’s gonna combust. That aside, i also enjoy the directness joyce has been exercising. Joe really brings it out of her
man i love joeyce
Combust, implode, go full supervillain, something else/none of the above – place your bets.
She’s going to crash again, harder than the first time, because her expectations for herself are still unreasonable. I don’t know if it will be enough, Joyce (and Walky) having more reasonable expectations (it will help a lot though).
Arnold+Dorothy isn’t just a bit, I think Dorothy would benefit a lot from a new friend whom she has no history with, who recognizes she’s ordinary. Arnold was pretty grounded in the other strip, but it doesn’t have to be him.
Non-Mouth Places on Joe’s Body, Away From Watching Eyes, Receive Friendly Fire: A Dumbing of Age Pornographique
I do hope so.
Also, I am feeling some very petty pride about calling this one. Masturbation does not lessen sex drive, Dorothy – if anything, it helped Joyce embrace hers (good outcome, but not Dorothy’s intention).
“this is just gonna make her want to bring in Joe to help her fold the laundry” is pretty much what a lot of us said, and I’m here for it.
I think for some people, it can give you post-nut clarity. But Joyce is hypersexual. Joyce may have post-nut clarity for like five minutes, and then go back to pre-nut mania.
That explains a lot of things.
I for one have never understood what ‘post nut clarity’ was supposed to be. The only thing I want after an orgasm is moar orgasm. Or, possibly, to snuggle up to my partner(s) and get some sleep.
I am not doing any deep thinking nor do I experience any sort of clarity – in fact, by preference, I’m not doing much thinking at all. Feeling, sure – post orgasmic bliss is an emotional high difficult to match.
Oh, no, post nut clarity is real for some people. Like, if you’re ever super antsy and kinda wigging out emotionally, masturbating is a good release for lots of those body/brain chemicals and feelings, and it can make you feel calmer ahead of something that scares you. Kinda like trading the freeze/fight/flight response you normally have with ‘fuck’.
Yeah for me it’s basically “okay cool thats out of the way, I can stop being distracted and move on with my day.” Being horny is kind of a debuff imo and getting off is just the ritual to lift it, but it’s varies person to person
It kind of goes hand in hand with the best definition of pornography I ever heard being “that which, after orgasm, ceases to be interesting”.
I don’t doubt it does…for Dorothy. Important life lesson: don’t expect other people to be just like you.
I was thinking something more like,
Joyce and Joe do Laundry Together: A Dumbing of Age Pornographique
Put me down as in favor of the “Friendly Fire” option. I have a very vivid imagination, and prefer the possibilities that become available with “non-mouth places”.
Friendly Fire just makes me think about a collab with Howard “Schlock Mercenary” Taylor, yannow? Which was the Maxim about friendly fire and company mess easier to tell apart?
downtown?
I’m DEAD
I don’t get it. Can you explain?
Also, how are you today?
“Downtown” in the Alt-text of this strip is often a euphemism for “down-there”, i.e. reproductive extremities.
I’m a bit high right now, listening to great music with Yoto.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nRWpTkQBBXk4_J1Ev70lSJVyN4Bckd36k
Eh, no genius
My, Joyce, that escalated quickly.
Burgers are the answer to so many of life’s difficult questions.
What should I have for dinner? What should I have for lunch? What should I have for breakfast? Why is my cholesterol so high?
Lean curry turkey burgers are awesome if you want a low-cholesterol alternative.
I might actually have to try that out, if I can find some turkey in this podunk town. You’d think it’d be easy out in the country but noooo, it’s all deli meat and dehydrated nonsense.
Getting a small meat grinder for making ground turkey in a stupid rural area is one of the better single-purpose-kitchen-gizmo purchases I’ve ever made.
Leave out the curry and you’ve got a deal.
East India Company in 1858 be like
The BK impossible whoppers slap. Then again from the way people talk about BK it sounds like the our version is better than the US
*sigh* For crying out loud Joyce. People have kissed each other and not gone further than that. Just kiss him already.
I think that’s less of a “people can’t be trusted in principle” problem and more of a “Joyce, in particular, aware of her own horniness” problem.
…. I’m not sure WHY it counts as a problem, but for some reason it is?
Well, assuming she’s seen how horny Becky gets.
Because she’s been taught all her life that wanting sex is evil, and has barely begun to detach herself from all the toxic christianity she grew up with.
Seriously, it’s been like 20 seconds.
She doesn’t want, or feel ready, to take that leap yet- as much as she knows she would enjoy it in the moment. She knows she’s not ready, and she knows her own self control, so she’s sticking to temptations she’s ready to face.
Something tells me you’re not getting Joyce here.
The horny will eat you alive from the inside out if you’re close to temptation. Her body wants it so bad that she probably will snap one minute and bang the crap out of Joe and then regret it post-coitus.
But something tells me Joe, in his character development, will abstain from banging Joyce because she obviously isn’t emotionally ready to deal with the post-sex shame. And Joyce might think there’s something wrong with her because the aspiring professional gigolo won’t bang her.
Trying and failing to remember Sarah’s sister’s name. Liz? Tags say I’m right.
Liz: https://www.dumbingofage.com/ruined/
The “snap and suck a billion dicks” trope exists for a reason. When your only learned form of impulse control is to plug your ears and shout “LA LA LA” at your desires, you’re not going to learn moderation easily. Of course, I’m not sure if containing the Gates of Heaven: Billion Dick Succ technique to just the one dick is any better.
I find it amazing Willis’s decision on making Joe and Joyce discuss serious points about their life, fears and desires, but they still haven’t kissed. No irony.
There has been a peck at least. They’re ahead of Walky and Lucy, if it were a race.
I mean, it’s a race for us. I’m half-surprised there isn’t a betting pool. (Not entirely surprised; I suspect it’d be kinda illegal.)
The Arizona Gambling Commission* has no jurisdiction over webcomics.
*I don’t now if this actually exists and can’t be bothered to find out
I bet it does.
4:1 they got as much power over us as Jareth has over Sarah.
… Labyrinth Sarah or DoA Sarah?
Not sure this Sarah has ever met David Bowie, but if she did I think she’d just make fun of him.
But the mental image of DoA Sarah just ripping it out of Bowie-as-Jareth whilst he looked increasingly put out and taken aback by it all is hysterical!!
And Lucy’s been trying to speedrun her way to that point with Walky.
Joyce is making sex puns… in bisexual.
I would not put it past willis to give Joe and Dotty one more big blow out fight about Joyce’s sexual awakening and Joyce just breaking everyone’s mind and being down to clown with both.
The sheer drama of it all would be *weeks* worth of easy content.
**Thumbs up Emoji**
At long last, this storyline will finally reveal once and for all what Joe and Joyce put on their burgers.
This is not sarcasm; I am genuinely eager to learn this information.
Joyce probably eats her burgers with 3 dots of ketchup forming a triangles on the chesee and picks the pickles off to eat them separately and mustard on the side but doesn’t eat the mustard. Joe idk probably no pickles though.
Joe puts a layer of either fries or onion rings inside the burger, whichever side he orders with them. He SCREAMS “Chips in the sammich” to me.
Do burgers and buns count as two foods touching? Or is “burger” one food substance consisting of both burger and bun?
Condiments and cheese are right out, though she might deconstruct them, like she did with tacos.
So, his preview will be on this storyline , right?
What’s the deal with burger?
Joyce is getting outside of her comfort zone by having two condiments at the same time.
Nah, as seen here, she likes ketchup and mustard:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/onions/
She probably just checking for inerrant condiments like mayo and onions, given the significant chance of the place getting your order wrong
Preview says in 9 more days.
We actually already know Joyce’s answer. Ketchup and mustard, nothing else, and then she smashes it flat so it’s more like a mcdonald’s burger.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/02-i-was-a-teenage-churchmouse/onions/
I guess that’s the answer. Odd that ketchup and mustard don’t count as different foods touching.
Obviously, “sauce” is not “food”, it’s just part of the experience.
I picture a Joyce that gets very weirded out at the idea of eating JUST a beef patty, because that’s not “a hamburger”, it’s “an ingredient”.
Except when the sauce is very clearly “different food”, as we’ve heard from Joyce before.
As Tesset says, it’s not really about logical, consistent rules, even if she presents it as such.
I suspect, like with mac & cheese, burgers get grandfathered in as “one food” she’s had long enough she thinks of them that way.
OCD anxieties don’t tend to be logical or have rules that can be consistently followed, unfort. I wouldn’t be surprised if it becomes problematic sometimes too – Joyce’s food aversions are generally trending worse, not better.
Unexpected burger mustard = Very Bad. Joyce, I’m in your camp on this.
Ah yes Joyce clearly wants to kiss Joe’s clavicle. Which I think is forbidden according to Levitcus 11:13right after it says no shell fish.
…and she’s right, of course! For the clavicle, although it has a cloven hoove, is not in the habit of chewing its cud. It’s right before where it says condiments are not to be mingled.
All this goes right out of the window once she realizes that as a Christian, she’s not bound by Leviticus. I think it was Peter the Fisherman who shrewdly realized he could invite his congregation to shell out on crayfish.
…not to shrimp on crustaceans, I mean.
I always imagined that some Temple priest in history had a shellfish allergy. He had a bad experience or two, and was like “yikes, God does not want us to eat these!! D:”
…hoof?
I gooved.
Joyce: Oh Dorothy, you beautiful tropical fish
Joyce: Oh Dorothy Beautiful, talented, brilliant, powerful musk ox.
Joyce: Oh Dorothy, you beautiful rule-breaking moth
Joyce: Oh Dorothy, opalescent tree shark.
Beautiful?
Tee Hee… “quench”.
Like a thirsty person suddenly drinking wet stuff.
Like a roaring fire put out by wet stuff.
Like a fire-hot iron (future) sword dipped into wet stuff over and over, before being pounded hard, and then the process repeats.
This was incredibly poetic & horny at once, 10/10
And the gravatar was oddly appropriate.
It’s a very slippery slope
Her slope is getting more slippery as she goes.
Joyce wants her mouth on Joe’s buns.
And possibly his hot dog.
I feel like the buns might be a safer territory for Joyce. The hot dog might feel too personal, so her keeping it to the bun area might feel less directly sexual.
She has previously expressed strong interest in smothering her face in his… buns…
“Beautiful,” huh? So apparently the hornier Joyce gets the more her latent bisexuality slips out.
It’s possible to find people beautiful without sexual interest involved, you know. I, for example, am very ace, but I am fully capable of seeing and acknowledging beauty.
Joyce is biromantic; no evidence so far that she’s bisexual.
did Joyce say that at some point in the comic?
No.
I think they’re taking from her “as long as I don’t have to deal with anything below the neck” thing?
at the very least she’s dorothy-sexual as well XD
I love how flustered Joe is
Or frustrated, I don’t know
Turned on, and fighting it, and not quite aware of either one yet.
I find it really amusing that Joe/Joyce, Walky/Lucy, and Danny/Sal are all giving heavy thought to their sexual life, but from wildly different angles and with different approaches.
I wouldn’t even necessarily call any of them unhealthy, exactly, like there is unnecessary ritual to Lucy/Walky, but it’s something that they full acknowledge and are aware of. Sal is probably thirstier than Danny is, but that, too, isn’t that big a deal when we know they are fully on-board, it’s just a matter of when.
Joe and Joyce are coming from very different experience levels, but that’s honestly very normal, especially for their age. Both have reasons, likely, to want to take it slow, and Joyce is unwrapping a lot of repression. It’s just got a lot of layers, and even if she’s an oddball, that she’s doing this at all is where I feel like she can be called on a good path, especially at her age. This would have been a lot rougher if she was having to save these conversations for another decade or two.
Willis is actually the best webcomic writer I’ve ever seen at work.
This is precisely why. Most writers tackle a theme by having one pivot character on which it turns and letting everyone else be a perspective on how that character makes their choice. The good ones do two characters. Willis is weaving together three pairs (technically, 3+1 if you count the echo of Danny/Amber that Sal is perfectly aware of, too) and doing it fantastically, with other themes being plate-spun too.
(And by “character”, I don’t just mean a single person, but language gets wibbly if I can’t rely on jargon.)
4 pairs if you go back to include Dina/Backy!
Becky.
Really good point. Also this is the best comment section today. Really thoughtful posts.
“A beautiful brilliant idiot genius ”
Jesus Christ, each time I’m starting to enjoy Joyce and Joe ship, Joyce have to put some small signal, some glimpse of interest on Dorothy or another friend. Again.
Or this or in big moments, like the entire laundry episode.
I know this couple is endgame. They’re getting along well: Joe is able to untangle a lot of problems of Joyce’s feelings. Not counting that he’s big and hot.
But I’m getting tiring of this teasing of her. I already stopped to complaining about Joyce having choose him.
“Learned how to socialize with other ladies from closeted lesbian who was crushing hard” is still plausible, but if Willis is trying to make that equally likely to bisexuality or at least biromantic, it doesn’t seem that way.
In the laundry episode, Joyce did tell Dorothy to leave before she came. Like that intimacy wasn’t for her. Maybe some of the laundry scene was symbolic, that Joyce has affection for Dorothy, but Dorothy missed her chance, being somewhat distant for months.
She’s in particular talking like Leslie Knope, who also gives of bi vibes.
I kinda feel the same way from the opposite side. I never liked Joyce+Dorothy, please stop teasing it now that my preferred ship won.
I hold out hope that we can find a middle ground where neither of us wants any consideration of a thruple.
I don’t think that last line is a reference to Joyce having feelings for Dorothy, like, at all. Willis isn’t just writing a bunch of queerbaiting ships, not to mention calling your friend beautiful doesn’t mean you’re attracted to them. Like maybe since you ship D/J it comes off as a dig at your ship, but I would bet my paycheck that’s not even close to what Willis meant with that line.
I wasn’t talking only about the laundry situation.
Look, I agree with you about the “beautiful”comment, but I felt like the speech was completly unecessary. If just she said “A brilliant idiot genius”, it could be understandable that Joyce starting to take Dorothy from pedestal. Right?
And I’ll never call it queerbaiting.Willis is doing a incredible work in DoA, bringing lot of great couples to us. It’s not fair.
@Big Z: No.
Long answer: don’t make it a big deal. More than 80% of readers have agreed with Joyce x Joe. Why should you care about me?
And I agree that people suffering each strip about something they don’t like is kinda of pathetic.
*It’s not fair to call it for him.
What speech? Joyce said a single sentence, and I guess a noun phrase at the end. She’s not teasing Dorothy she’s like “dammit I’m still horny! curse you!”
Something that just occurred to me, that I’m really happy I see now. Joyce is DEFINITELY the top in this relationship. It’s hella cute to be honest.
Predicting a very normal comments section this week.
So hysterical exaggeration, death threats, and weird tangents about our personal lives?
oh, tish. Is that all?
It’s honestly one of the tamer and less-stressful sites I frequent.
I’m enjoying watching Joe continuing to realize just how much repressed horniness is wound tightly into the core of Joyce’s being. Is this power too much even for him? Maybe….
Echoes of Dina, only Joyce is actually willing to let her religion go.
Just don’t picture the burger as a mouth and you’ll be fine. Don’t think about the buns either.
That’s one leaky mental faucet, shame the idiot genius is out fending for herself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/ihf2zu/flag_of_hamburger_pride/ being Burgersexual is valid lol (all those memes/fanart of anime girls eating burger is fun [it’s not necessarily sexualized, some are pretty on the cutesy/slice of life side and just being chill lol])
This is such a magnificently written strip.
What follows is an erotic eating scene straight out of an Emmanuelle movie.
I’m thinking the erotic eating scene out of Hot Shots!, myself.
Come to think, Joyce could use Ramona’s amazingly ridiculous line, “I’m a virgin. I’m just not very good at it,” and mean something entirely different.
What about Gabriel Iglesias “Eating that Burger”?
I kinda wanna give Joe some minor props for something else, here. Joyce is setting certain boundaries, nebulous and strange in reason though they may be, and he’s simply respecting them, complete with verbal confirmation of what she’s said.
I know that’s not a high bar to clear, and we’re supposed to be actively hostile and slam boys/men down for “wanting a cookie” for basic decency like this (whether they asked for one or not, usually not) and make them feel guilty for doing what’s expected of them, but… Nah, fuck that. He’s grown a lot in a short time and that needs to be encouraged, give the guy a cookie. It’s a fucking cookie, not an Olympic medal and the key to the city. Toll House churns them out by the millions, why are we being so precious with the goddamn cookies?
No hang on, I got more shit nobody asked about. The whole attitude people have of “What, you want a parade” or whatever elaborate celebration they sneer at anyone who expresses even minor joy about getting something right, it’s shitty and worthless. If somebody does the right thing and feels good about it for a few seconds, and your first instinct is to act like they’re inconveniencing you with their joy, you’re a shitty fucking person and deserve the death penalty. I can’t count how many times all somebody had to do was keep their smug fucking mouth shut and let me be happy for literally the duration of a sentence, and instead they decided to act like I was contacting the news to demand a press conference with blackjack and hookers. All that does is teach people that expressing any amount of joy, no matter how small and brief, is unacceptable and deserving of punishment. That’s damage, it’s trauma, and anyone who does it can go hug an oxygen tank in a burning building.
/nobodyasked
Except for the death penalty I agree.
I’m exaggerating slightly. A few centuries in the mines would be sufficient, no need to waste good muscle.
Actually I changed my mind. Death to all enemies of joy and punishers of self-improvement. They had their chance and they wasted it.
I am also happy with giving Joe a cookie. Given that the two of them are very much working out what their boundaries are, together, and that things he may not have anticipated to be problems (being alone in closed rooms, snogging sessions) apparently are problems for her – and he’s just accepting them, because her comfort comes above his horny, even though he is learning that she also has the horny and that part of the problem is that scares the everloving poop out of her – even though she is also (and OK, because sometimes more cartoon than others) LITERALLY FORCING STUBBLE IN AND OUT OF HIS FACE… He is being appropriately gentle with the emotions of a girl working to overcome both trauma and also repression, while working to work out what she actually wants, with probable autism, going through a lot of other changes that she’s finding rough. He’s doing great. Heck, keep this up much longer and he’ll qualify for an ice cream sandwich…
Also, the people snuffing out your joy and pride in your accomplishments were being really unkind. You are allowed to feel good about your successes. You are allowed to celebrate your achievements. Your hard work paying off, or good fortune, or people recognising that day in, day out, you’re trying and being a decent human being – those are all worthy of acknowledgement and recognition. You are entitled to those seratonin boosts (which are basically your brain doing its best to give you cookie-equivalents)! Assuming no diabetes or other reasons making cookies a bad idea, you get cookies too! (And if those things you should have at least got an “I’m so proud of you” from someone whose opinion matters to you. Because you deserve to be seen and to have your good recognised.)
Sorry this comment made me cry. I mostly agree with Taffy btw, though I’ve never come close to vocalising it.
My family are a mix of autistic/avoidant anxious people and a mix of extremely fiery extraverted arrogant people. I’m having to try to organise a big initiative across three different families all over the place to look after my mom who’s mind is starting to fail and it’s ruined her finances and jeopardised her health and safety. It means I’m having to email a lot, very difficult subjects, to a mixed audience of personalities, and being that I’m a mediator type, means I’m having to soothe the arrogant people who don’t react well to the anxious avoidant people, who I also have to reaffirm that their contributions do have value and they are appreciated… All while being so stressed about every single aspect of this, it feels like I’m living years in days. So to hear someone say “you’re allowed to feel proud of your successes”, I had this family dynamic where the arrogant personalities seized social control and lambasted literally any sign of burgeoning self confidence in the anxious avoidant ones, and I’ve felt uneasy in every single social group where I see that dynamic in place, and it’s so, *so* relieving to hear someone say “sapping joy is unkind, you’re allowed to celebrate your successes” – thank you for this.
And I agree totally, Joe is doing phenomenally here, as I felt like he likely would, he was amazing with Joyce in It’s Walky, and I’m so danged excited to have a proper Joe/Joyce ship here in DoA.
I mean. Okay I know comparing people to dogs is a bad thing or whatever but I like dogs and pavlovian training is cool; that’s how you train good behavior. Literally giving cookings for small things done right. Positive reinforcement. That’s how you teach kids, you reward them for doing good things. I’m not saying treat grown people like dogs and children but, the principle is there, it’s supported and we use it in life all the time. Celebrate little victories, y’know?
Hell, a lot of the time, I’d even accept ignoring little victories. If it’s ignored, at least other people are giving you the space to celebrate on your own. Instead, it seems like the entire world is designed to punish literally everything you do. Not for any moral, ethical, reasonable, helpful, or even practical reason, but for its own sake.
Hear hear!
Seconded!
…Anyone up for a game?
Take your pick of questions:
Either —
1.) What is your favorite way to make or have a burger? Favorite style, cooking technique, toppings, ingredients… etc.?
OR:
2.) What is your favorite date food?
OR:
Both!
I can go:
1.) I love ground beef all mixed up with bell peppers and onions and garlic and tomato and carrots and all sorts of delicious spices, hand-formed into patties and grilled over an open flame. With a slice of thick-cut sharp cheddar cheese melted on top. Served on whole grain toast with sesame seeds. Happy childhood memories.
2.) Fave date food is watermelon. It’s such an unselfconscious food!
Burger mode: Take the ground beef, roll it in whatever seasonings you want. I usually go for simple salt and pepper, but if I wanna get elaborate I’ll add in some curry powder or chipotle, garlic, and a little splash of soy sauce on each patty. Slap those fuckers on the heating surface and cook ’em til you’re satisfied with the color, preferably a little char is involved for that extra goodness. Once they’re done, toss ’em onto the nearest bun-shaped object and top ’em with lettuce*, a fuck-off massive slab of a tomato slice, onions in some shape or other, American or Colby-Jack cheese*, and maybe even a couple strips of bacon if I’m feeling ornery. The bun of course has whatever mayo equivalent is nearby, ketchup*, and if the moon is in alignment with shut the fuck up, a single swirl of mustard.
Naturally, this burger has to be served with either plain salted potato chips or literally anything made of a potato that says “fries” on the bag. Figure out your own dipping situation, I’m not your fucking mother.
*Fuck off, it’s my fucking burger, eat yours how you want and get your nasty fucking fingers out of mine
Date food: A little Chinese or Mexican wouldn’t fuckin’ kill ya. If it would, go pick up some Wendy’s or somethin’. Or cook ’em some chicken tikka. bongoes love chicken tikka.
Taffy’s burger is surprisingly close. I mean definitely no curry, and Chipotle is preferred. The ketchup should go, Chinese mustard is better. The bacon is mandatory and you should add avacodo and sautéed mushrooms.
If it’s a good date, the food is unimportant background.
Chinese mustard is too spicy for me, in that case I’d honestly rather have a little sushi-restaurant wasabi in conjunction with regular mustard :3
I don’t eat meat, and I have medical restrictions, so I make my own veggie burgers from scratch. Like a batch at a time, and then freeze them. Lentil-chipotle to be more precise than “veggie”. I’ve gotten a lot better at them, but I’m uncertain how others like them. Nobody will say, “too much X” or “not enough Y”.
I’d love cheddar on them, but I mostly just use swiss nowadays.
There’s no wrong way to eat a burger. I tend to favor a ‘standard’ with lettuce, tomato, onions, and sauce (whether it be ketchup or a ‘secret’ sauce of mayo/ketchup, etc). BBQ and onion rings work well for a different flavor, as does avocado. Or eggs. Potatoes of any kind directly on the burger.
My go to ‘date dish’ when I was dating was a pasta dish, chicken broccoli alfredo. Being married now, we have a few date dishes, like a BBQ pulled pork quesadilla that was served at our wedding.
Turkey curry burger with caramelized onions and mustard.
I like to take people out for sandwiches.
Well, yeah. Putting them on sandwiches while they’re still alive and kicking would be problematic.
I make homemade veggie burgers/sausages sometimes, but I don’t that often coz it takes a little while.
*Cooked veg of choice (e.g. fried in a TSP or so of oil: onions/mushrooms/bell peppers/diced spinach, boiled/sautéed: carrots/peas/sweetcorn, as is: olives/sun-dried tomatoes/pre-boiled vacuum packed beetroot [beets in the US])
*A tin of beans of two depending on quantity (black beans/chick peas [garbanzo in US I think]/red kidney beans – whatever’s to hand – drained)
*Either breadcrumbs, oats or mashed potato (but that one makes for a much softer finish) or a mix (to firm)
*1-2 eggs depending on quantity (to bind)
*1-2 handfuls of grated/chopped cheese (usually cheddar, sometimes feta, sometimes a mix, will sometimes include Stilton…)
*Herbs/spices to go with whatever flavour profile I’m putting together
Fry up the fried veg with the herbs/spices. Empty into a large bowl. Use stick blender. Add beans. Personal preference whether to slurry those or leave some texture. Mix in the egg, cheese and (breadcrumbs/oats/potato). Use a tablespoon to form mixture into either sausage shapes or burger rounds on non-stick paper on a microwave-safe plate. Nuke til firm. Transfer to either a tray or pan and fry/bake until they look cooked.
Loosely based on an old recipe from the lady who also suggests these: https://www.easycheesyvegetarian.com/smoked-cheese-bean-sausages/ but can’t
It can be a good way to use up odds and ends in the fridge, my kids love it when I make them (and the 8 and 5 year old really like meat… 3 year old is a pescetarian and this is just about the only way he eats mushrooms these days) – and the recipe also works with silicone food moulds so I tend to also make up a batch of little veggie piggies while I’m at it, which I find funny at any rate!
There are some good veggie ones but what I fancy varies!
Favorite burger: someone else cooked it.
Date food: doesn’t matter so long as it’s edible — I’m there for the companionship.
Excellent choices, all! Y’all/youse/yinz are some really good cooks and considerate dates! I am so impressed!
So….Dorothy was wrong, and Ruth was right? Hm.
Dorothy’s solution wasn’t baseless. But she started out from herself, who planned her entire life around schedules and balancing acts.
Joyce has a balloon full of sexual frustration ready to burst. While giving her a valve to relieve the pressure inside it was nice of Dorothy(with some caveats as to her execution other comments could tell you a lot about), it also revealed the extent of that neglected desire to Joyce. A lot more things would need to be done before Joyce processes it how Dorothy does.
Meanwhile, Ruth has a lot of experience in teens failing to live up to an impossible standard, and hit the nail on the head.
To be fair, Joyce has a Lot of catching up with healthy dealing with these kinds of things and this was just the first step. Now she at least has a healthy outlet for the urges she Always had. The thirst she had for men like Ethan and Jake was pretty obvious. Thanks to this outlet she won’t suddenly explode.
She reminds me of a buddy I had in middle school. He was a lot like Joyce, pious, moral and all that stuff, he was planning to become a priest. I heard about him a decade or two later and not only did he start to party like wild but also hit someone with his car while driving drunk.
At first I did not comprehend Joe’s meaning and thought they were going to do an anti-kiss.
An anti-kiss is when two people stand six feet apart and blow at each other as hard as possible
Joe does kiss, Joyce does anti-kiss, and they disappear in a flash of gamma rays.
If they’re going to Galasso’s, I hope they can remain out of the drama splash zone surrounding a particular six-up…
Finally Joyce understood!
Oh to be a nameless background character passing by these two horny dolts…
At least we can simulate the experience by only reading one panel, devoid of context.
When floodgates are opened, there’s a huge initial torrent before the water starts to flow at a steady rate.
An Ode To Joyce
I’m horny, horny, horny, horny
So horny, I’m horny, horny, horny
I’m horny, horny, horny, horny
So horny, I’m horny, horny, horny, horny
with apologies to Mousse T
The dams have broken down.
Er, “Hand-KY,” Joyce?
The challenge today is to repeat “hand-ky panky” three times.
‘Cause practicing The Sex makes us want less of The Sex. Guaranteed.
She’s learning what we all ready knew.
The road to hell, clearly.
Well, I think we have the answer to Joe’s question from panel five of yesterday’s comic…
what Joyce is going through is reminding me of Anna in Shimoneta
grew up under the p*rn ban from her mother where any sexual thing is forbidden and pretty much raised to take the help of the anti p*rn movement after her mom, until she end up seeing dude MC’s penis (completely by a sequence of unfortunate events, like a gold ruberg machine where the end goal is pants being dropped) and that completely broke her after that she couldn’t think of anything else (still tried to maintain the anti-p*rn facade which was even funnier)
take the helm*
dammit -_-
They also share some of the creepiness. Joyce did some shady things regarding Jacob, though she was nowhere near as bad as Anna. That girl tried to outright rape the protag because she thought it was for love and didn’t know it’s a bad thing.
moral of the story, repressing natural urges in your kids instead of teaching them how to deal with them never ends well
neither of them has a healthy attitude towards sex, for opposite reasons
I don’t know about that. What exactly is wrong with Joe’s cheerful approach to libido as a hobby?
What do you mean a hobby?
His entire character arc.
That Joe didn’t fully realize he still needed to view women as equals who are also supposed to use him for their libidos as an equal hobby.
He did in most one on one interactions (like him and Liz), but still f”ked up the en-masse interaction (the list).
Y’all keep saying a libido is a hobby, but that’s not what either of those words are.
What’s wrong with the expression. Joe loves sex, and pursues it for its own sake. That’s pretty much the definition of a (beloved)hobby. Should I be asking “what’s wrong with recreational sex”?
And he’d gotten a lot better by the time of the Liz incident.
See his talk with Joyce after his donut apology for the list – where she tells him that being viewed as nothing more than an object with something he wanted reminded her of Ryan.
I don’t think it’s necessarily unhealthy, but in his case, it was. Its not what he actually wanted. He thought he didn’t deserve love.
The cheerfulness was fine, it was mostly Joe’s dehumanizing list and trying to avoid anything resembling emotions. Joe thought if he maintained maximum aloofness he could avoid hurting anybody, including himself. Touch no hearts, break no hearts. His experience with Liz taught him that he could still hurt someone, even himself, by avoiding serious feelings. Now he is learning to be more open and vulnerable with Joyce.
Keeping things casual is fine, but completely avoiding/ignoring the heart can get you blindsided.
I think they’ve been both working on getting better from their opposite ends, but I definitely wouldn’t say they’ve both met the middle yet.
Panel 2 made me laugh, reminded me of a Bob’s Burgers where someone tries to be sexy and calls kisses “mouth burgers”. It’s such a terrible nickname for kissing that it’s eternally locked in my brain that “kisses = mouth burgers”.
While Dorothy thought that if you have an outlet for sex feelings Joe might not look as an atractive option and was wrong with that, the action still helped as Joe not being the only option lets Joyce realize clearly she is still into him.
So it would seem that Ruth was right all along…
Joyce…. there’s only one way to get yourself to not permanently think of sex:
HAVE IT. Have enough sex to feel like it’s out of your system *for now*, and voila, your head is free to think of other things.
When i was a christian, i once tried to fast before easter. The idea was “don’t think of food, think of God“ – man did that backfire. Turns out i’m way better at thinking of God on a full stomach instead of when i’m focusing on the one thing i can’t have! it’s the same with sex.
Just go and have the sex. A lot of the sex.