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There’s no reason to think that the popular catchphrase ‘Nothing about us without us” wouldn’t also apply to the (in)famous, yet popular, podcast Lesbians on the Internet.
holy shit when did they invent anti depressants that let you feel emotions?? (mostly joking, my current ones hit a pretty decent balance, definitely not true of previous ones though)
Honestly, it is ambiguity all the way down. The words “like” “love” and “interested” are all purposeful ambiguous. If it can apply to pets, parents, partners, and property, then you’re not being clear enough. The only word that has even a chance of not being ambiguous is “romance”, but there’s a social taboo about using that word.
Various forms of touch are romantic or friendly depending on cultural differences, and people mix and match cultures as they are exposed to them. Not to mention that almost everyone has a (at least slightly) different personality in different social contexts.
And sex means different things to different people in different contexts.
There’s a general taboo about breaking the veil and being direct. If you say “I have romantic feelings for you”, this is considered unromantic. Similarly to verbally checking for consent to sex, though that’s been deemed important enough by enough people that the taboos relaxing.
“they must be saying that to be nice/hurt my feelings” reminds me of those tweets/screenshots that’s like “tfw when two of your friends meet and they get along better and stop hanging out with you” <-(well that specific example is a little diff than the situation i just couldn't think of something more relevant off the top of my head this late lol)
I think this very rare use of a thought bubble is a great chance to see what’s actually going on in Carla’s head. She’s so insecure and desperate to be liked underneath the protective narcissism.
I’ve been with one of my partners (I’m polyamorous) for almost 18 years and sometimes my crippling self doubt and anxiety takes over my brain and I’m like “omg do you hate me”
It’d be a heck of a slow burn of a move to be with you willingly for 18 years in a row, looking like they have no intention of leaving any time soon, reassuring you that you are loved the whole time.
Carla: Booster, I need to find out of Charlie likes me. My plan involves you, lederhosen, a fifty gallon drum of Tapioca pudding, and some hungry Rottweilers. Meet me at Blowjob Cat and…
Booster: Carla, Charlie just posed “I sure do like my new girlfriend Carla Rutten” on ZoomrBook.
Carla:Booster stop wasting my time with Un-Carla-Related nonsense and put on this lederhosen!
It would be way too earned if getting what she wants turns into a terrible curse of doubt for Carla. She’s great but she also deserves it, which is part of why she’s great.
The quintessential lesbian experience. A+++ realistic strip, Willis wins again.
Carla demands reverence and awe!!! And all of your attention!!! It’s what she deserves!!! But affection? Oh, actual, honest affection from a peer disarms her. And after so many spiels about liking Mean Girls who’d step on her (and I don’t doubt the kinky ace angle), Charlie here’s killing her with kindness. I love to see it.
I wonder if part of the kink interest is how incredibly direct the attention is. Like, you don’t just have a person who’s only mildly interested engaging in that.
Hopefully:
Clear and specified communication. Fewer mistaken communications.
Consent asked, given, repeated, and nigh-ritualized. Fewer misunderstandings.
Specific needs and wants given specific attention. Fewer misassumptions.
If you’ve ever been in a sexual relationship with someone and they’re doing all the traditional things that imply consent (which excludes verbal confirmation, because most of society expects everyone to read non-verbal clues when it comes to sex and romance) to everything you do together, but later you find out that they consent to literally everything anyone says out of fear of rejection. You then start doubting all non-verbal clues and hints.
Which, since society is built around these non-verbal clues and hints, and romance seems to be all about preserving ambiguity, means you’re going to have to be running multiple scenarios in your head for all probable explanations, and the more you like someone (or the more responsibility is part of your make-up), the more you want them to be safe, so you start considering less and less likely explanations. And then you realize that humans are notoriously inconsistent, so you have to consider the slightly psychotic scenarios too.
Like. I don’t mean to put you on blast, but this is an extremely common marginalized experience. There is a reason why so many trans and gay people are going “IT ME” in every comment section on this storyline.
There really truly does not need to be a deeper reason beyond “Carla is a trans lesbian asexual young adult”. Heck any one of those modifiers would be enough. (I don’t know if Carla is 19 or 20, but being a teenager can have this effect, too.)
Oh, this isn’t just a trans/gay thing. I’m Straight and Cis, and the first inkling I had that this girl might actually be liking me was when she grabbed and hugged my arm while I was walking to the bike racks after school.
I think its more just a situation where one’s inexperienced with being seen as attractive. You just start second-guessing yourself a lot more if you’re used to just not being seen in that way, whether its because most people of your gender aren’t interested in you, you’re trans and are dealing with societal issues relating to that, or just a wimpy nerdy guy that doesn’t realize that he’s actually kinda cute and charming.
All due respect, it IS different, though. Like, the queer version doesn’t just go away with age and experience.
Also I’m super unwilling to actually concede the idea that “the vast majority” of people are cis and heterosexual. We won’t have anywhere NEAR accurate data to make that judgment until we’ve advanced past queerphobia and all the many pressures on people to suppress queer modes of expression. Kinsey tried, but 10% is way too low a number.
Also, most people aren’t attractive to most people of the gender(s) they find attractive. It’s not that queer folks are more likely to be rejected by someone we have a crush on — it’s that “rejection” is more potentially dangerous. The failure state for flirting with a stranger isn’t just embarrassment but potentially “loud dramatic disgust that outs us to everyone else in the vicinity”, or even “violent retribution”. You can’t even be sure you’re safe to flirt with someone in a literal gay bar — not only are there sometimes homophobes* in those bars, there are plenty of gay transphobes.
Anyway? Like I said at the start: just being a teenager would be reason enough for Carla to be insecure like this. But being a lesbian, being asexual, and being trans in our present society sure don’t help.
* infamously, straight women sometimes go into gay bars specifically to get away from straight men for a night, and those straight women have not always done the work to unpack their own homophobia — but also sometimes straight people just wander in by mistake, and the rare homophobe will go in on purpose in order to have an “excuse” to get violent: gay panic isn’t just a cute term for young people in love, but a very real legal strategy for defending homophobes who got a lil bit murderous in response to “panicking” after they were hit on by a queer person.
I’m not saying there are no potentially terrible outcomes for a straight cis guy flirting with the wrong woman, by the way. I also regret saying “more potentially dangerous” when what I meant was “scarier”. Folks who aren’t straight white cis men tend to be more aware of, and afraid of, potential danger. (Straight white cis men experience the majority of violent crime, for example, but they’re not as likely to be afraid of going out at night. They’re not who we teach to hold their car keys Just So while crossing the parking lot so that they can hopefully fend off attackers after they get groceries for the week.)
And too there’s a reason why I first said this was a very MARGINALIZED experience, not a very QUEER experience. Men of color can be straight and cis and have every other privilege under the sun, and they’ll still have “what if she’s secretly violently racist” as part of their background radiation in the dating scene. Same with disabled men and ableism, fat men and fatphobia.
The experience is a little different, but the constant low-and-sometimes-high key fear is similar, and it has a definite impact on our behavior and feelings about ourselves.
sometimes a person can go out with someone to see how it feels, to see if feelings develop, even without telling the other person that’s what they’re doing, even with hand-holding. Even infinitely more hand-holding that before.
I hope Charlie likes Carla too. She likes her so far, but they barely know each other. good chemistry though
For those who complained it made no sense that Carla could feel like she needed an introduction to Charlie, while Charlie knew full well who Carla is and even thought they might be dating earlier, see above.
As far as I understand it, this continues to be the Quintessential Lesbian Experience™ The two of them might not quite realise they’re into one another until they’ve moved in together and have three pets and nineteen plants.
tbf friends should be allowed to handhold platonically without it being a big deal lol
tho i can imagine a romcom misunderstanding romance story where one person is ‘thirsty’ and the other person is oblivious b/c they’re simply ace (tho i know plenty of aces date without sexual contact versus fully aroace)
We’ve got people for the second example: Becky and Dina. Though neither were oblivious.
For the first point, that’s the problem. Friends can be all over each other, so when you’re a lesbian everything becomes all the more confusing when you’re trying to parse if someone likes you in that way. It’s hard out here.
Carla: I know! I’ll eliminate all ambiguity with a simple note. *casually slips a “do you like me yes/no/maybe” note into Charlie’s hand*
*camera pans out to reveal they’re at the altar at their ultracar-themed wedding*
Can’t believe that Carla loudly demanding acknowledgement, playing up her own ego as a performance, was a cover for that she actually yearns for some variety of said acknowledgement.
“Now, if she holds your hand and smiles adoringly at you, she probably is just Canadian and is being polite and keeping your hand warm and spirits up in the cold.”
I like how Willis continues to choose themes in that explore them in several different directions at once. We’re not just talking about Joyce and Joe’s relationship with the ambiguity of different kinds and expressions of intimacy, we’ve got five or six other relationships in which the theme is being explored simultaneously through the lens of different people with different kinds of interpersonal relationships and different kinds of baggage, this one included. It’s cool. It’s masterful. Big fan.
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I’d hope people like the ones they call their girlfriends
According to lesbians on the internet, this is a very common felling.
I have no idea, but I choose to believe that Lesbians on the Internet is a well known popular podcast.
But is it by or about them?
That is a question they too would like an answer to.
Useless Lesbians: The Radio Play Broadcast Thingy
The novelization of the interpretive dance.
There’s no reason to think that the popular catchphrase ‘Nothing about us without us” wouldn’t also apply to the (in)famous, yet popular, podcast Lesbians on the Internet.
But what if it’s an ironic name and the podcast is actually about gardening or something?
it’d be more worrying if it was a het relationshiop but hopefully they’ll be fine lol
Happy Monday all!
Today I cried actual tears from my face for the first time in months.
Hopeful tears.
I cry them again once more, seeing these two.
🥹🥹🥹
*plays “Seahorse Dreams” by Kubbi on hacked muzak*
Congratulations on crying!
(not sarcasm, to be very clear. i don’t know why you cried but i remember openly weeping for the first time in ages after starting antidepressants)
Friends supporting me and assuring everything gonna be alright.
That, listening to Machinarium soundtracks, particularly “The Sea” by Tomas Dvorak.
proffered sympathy via light electronic contact
holy shit when did they invent anti depressants that let you feel emotions?? (mostly joking, my current ones hit a pretty decent balance, definitely not true of previous ones though)
I hear it!
My antidepressants leave me in a soft bubble pretty much all the time.
…Not a bad way to live, overall.
the emojis just show up as boxes to me but congrats/treatyoself to a nice snack/calming drink and stuff
That is, frequently, the goal of antidepressants. :p
Chamomile tea or hot cocoa are my faves!
Glad you are feeling hopeful, NG. I know it’s hard.
If only we had some way to know if people liked us.
I know, right?
Honestly, it is ambiguity all the way down. The words “like” “love” and “interested” are all purposeful ambiguous. If it can apply to pets, parents, partners, and property, then you’re not being clear enough. The only word that has even a chance of not being ambiguous is “romance”, but there’s a social taboo about using that word.
Various forms of touch are romantic or friendly depending on cultural differences, and people mix and match cultures as they are exposed to them. Not to mention that almost everyone has a (at least slightly) different personality in different social contexts.
And sex means different things to different people in different contexts.
now contrast this tentative touching with former Joyce, then current Joyce & Joe, & Walky’s/Dotty’s/etc. reactions
You’re serious? Theres a social taboo about using romance?
There’s a general taboo about breaking the veil and being direct. If you say “I have romantic feelings for you”, this is considered unromantic. Similarly to verbally checking for consent to sex, though that’s been deemed important enough by enough people that the taboos relaxing.
“they must be saying that to be nice/hurt my feelings” reminds me of those tweets/screenshots that’s like “tfw when two of your friends meet and they get along better and stop hanging out with you” <-(well that specific example is a little diff than the situation i just couldn't think of something more relevant off the top of my head this late lol)
Oh Carla. Your ego really shatters when people actually show you affection.
I think this very rare use of a thought bubble is a great chance to see what’s actually going on in Carla’s head. She’s so insecure and desperate to be liked underneath the protective narcissism.
Amazing. Perfect. 10/10. End of comic, there is no need to go on.
ROLL. THE. CREDITS.
–Dave, er, … rectangle the credits?
Is there ever?
Eventually when they’re married Carla still won’t be sure.
I’ve been with one of my partners (I’m polyamorous) for almost 18 years and sometimes my crippling self doubt and anxiety takes over my brain and I’m like “omg do you hate me”
It’d be a heck of a slow burn of a move to be with you willingly for 18 years in a row, looking like they have no intention of leaving any time soon, reassuring you that you are loved the whole time.
Per Sarah Andersen’s “You’re sure you like me?” comic. But, can’t be too sure. Best to give it another 100 years.
Carla: Booster, I need to find out of Charlie likes me. My plan involves you, lederhosen, a fifty gallon drum of Tapioca pudding, and some hungry Rottweilers. Meet me at Blowjob Cat and…
Booster: Carla, Charlie just posed “I sure do like my new girlfriend Carla Rutten” on ZoomrBook.
Carla: Booster stop wasting my time with Un-Carla-Related nonsense and put on this lederhosen!
My imagination made me see that very clearly.
I’m torn between laughing or cursing right now.
Willis has captured the transbian romantic experience perfectly
Hard same, Carla. I know those feels.
Carla speechless? Did Hell freeze over?
We had to compensate for global warming somewhere.
I got a hunch
nothing solid yet tho
need to gather more intel
I’ve got a hunch
Breakfast, Dinner, and Lunch
would be so much more fun to munch
If I had them with… Charlie?
I do so love the scientific method
I’ve got a fee-ling
it could be de-mons
hand-holding de-mons
–Dave, …no, something isn’t rght, there
It would be way too earned if getting what she wants turns into a terrible curse of doubt for Carla. She’s great but she also deserves it, which is part of why she’s great.
For a moment I mistook Charlie for her twin Booster and wondered why Carla of all people was misgendering them.
I’m still confused about how this started
So is Booster probably.
So is Carla. She’s not even entirely sure yet if it has.
Oh shit
Vulnerability
This is so many trans girls I know and it’s adorable.
The quintessential lesbian experience. A+++ realistic strip, Willis wins again.
Carla demands reverence and awe!!! And all of your attention!!! It’s what she deserves!!! But affection? Oh, actual, honest affection from a peer disarms her. And after so many spiels about liking Mean Girls who’d step on her (and I don’t doubt the kinky ace angle), Charlie here’s killing her with kindness. I love to see it.
I wonder if part of the kink interest is how incredibly direct the attention is. Like, you don’t just have a person who’s only mildly interested engaging in that.
Hopefully:
Clear and specified communication. Fewer mistaken communications.
Consent asked, given, repeated, and nigh-ritualized. Fewer misunderstandings.
Specific needs and wants given specific attention. Fewer misassumptions.
That’s definitely why my autistic ass has an interest in kink.
Same!
I think you have a good shot, Carla.
As much as I love seeing them together, I am worried about Carla. Why is she so uncertain about where she stands with Charlie? What is causing it?
She’s probably never really had any sort of romantic relationship before, so this is all pretty unprecedented for her.
If you’ve ever been in a sexual relationship with someone and they’re doing all the traditional things that imply consent (which excludes verbal confirmation, because most of society expects everyone to read non-verbal clues when it comes to sex and romance) to everything you do together, but later you find out that they consent to literally everything anyone says out of fear of rejection. You then start doubting all non-verbal clues and hints.
Which, since society is built around these non-verbal clues and hints, and romance seems to be all about preserving ambiguity, means you’re going to have to be running multiple scenarios in your head for all probable explanations, and the more you like someone (or the more responsibility is part of your make-up), the more you want them to be safe, so you start considering less and less likely explanations. And then you realize that humans are notoriously inconsistent, so you have to consider the slightly psychotic scenarios too.
gestures at society
Like. I don’t mean to put you on blast, but this is an extremely common marginalized experience. There is a reason why so many trans and gay people are going “IT ME” in every comment section on this storyline.
There really truly does not need to be a deeper reason beyond “Carla is a trans lesbian asexual young adult”. Heck any one of those modifiers would be enough. (I don’t know if Carla is 19 or 20, but being a teenager can have this effect, too.)
Oh, this isn’t just a trans/gay thing. I’m Straight and Cis, and the first inkling I had that this girl might actually be liking me was when she grabbed and hugged my arm while I was walking to the bike racks after school.
I think its more just a situation where one’s inexperienced with being seen as attractive. You just start second-guessing yourself a lot more if you’re used to just not being seen in that way, whether its because most people of your gender aren’t interested in you, you’re trans and are dealing with societal issues relating to that, or just a wimpy nerdy guy that doesn’t realize that he’s actually kinda cute and charming.
All due respect, it IS different, though. Like, the queer version doesn’t just go away with age and experience.
Also I’m super unwilling to actually concede the idea that “the vast majority” of people are cis and heterosexual. We won’t have anywhere NEAR accurate data to make that judgment until we’ve advanced past queerphobia and all the many pressures on people to suppress queer modes of expression. Kinsey tried, but 10% is way too low a number.
Also, most people aren’t attractive to most people of the gender(s) they find attractive. It’s not that queer folks are more likely to be rejected by someone we have a crush on — it’s that “rejection” is more potentially dangerous. The failure state for flirting with a stranger isn’t just embarrassment but potentially “loud dramatic disgust that outs us to everyone else in the vicinity”, or even “violent retribution”. You can’t even be sure you’re safe to flirt with someone in a literal gay bar — not only are there sometimes homophobes* in those bars, there are plenty of gay transphobes.
Anyway? Like I said at the start: just being a teenager would be reason enough for Carla to be insecure like this. But being a lesbian, being asexual, and being trans in our present society sure don’t help.
* infamously, straight women sometimes go into gay bars specifically to get away from straight men for a night, and those straight women have not always done the work to unpack their own homophobia — but also sometimes straight people just wander in by mistake, and the rare homophobe will go in on purpose in order to have an “excuse” to get violent: gay panic isn’t just a cute term for young people in love, but a very real legal strategy for defending homophobes who got a lil bit murderous in response to “panicking” after they were hit on by a queer person.
I’m not saying there are no potentially terrible outcomes for a straight cis guy flirting with the wrong woman, by the way. I also regret saying “more potentially dangerous” when what I meant was “scarier”. Folks who aren’t straight white cis men tend to be more aware of, and afraid of, potential danger. (Straight white cis men experience the majority of violent crime, for example, but they’re not as likely to be afraid of going out at night. They’re not who we teach to hold their car keys Just So while crossing the parking lot so that they can hopefully fend off attackers after they get groceries for the week.)
And too there’s a reason why I first said this was a very MARGINALIZED experience, not a very QUEER experience. Men of color can be straight and cis and have every other privilege under the sun, and they’ll still have “what if she’s secretly violently racist” as part of their background radiation in the dating scene. Same with disabled men and ableism, fat men and fatphobia.
The experience is a little different, but the constant low-and-sometimes-high key fear is similar, and it has a definite impact on our behavior and feelings about ourselves.
This is pretty much the Queer Experience™ in a nutshell, especially among wlw.
Charlie’s love language is comfortable silences. Carla’s love language… And general existence language… Doesn’t really have “silence” in the lexicon
sometimes a person can go out with someone to see how it feels, to see if feelings develop, even without telling the other person that’s what they’re doing, even with hand-holding. Even infinitely more hand-holding that before.
I hope Charlie likes Carla too. She likes her so far, but they barely know each other. good chemistry though
I think she does, Carla
my glasses animated the third panel to look like it’s when Charlie put her hand on Carla’s.
Least obnoxious Carla strip in series history
Charlie’s cute as hell.
Of course, so is Carla, but I’ve said so many a time.
For those who complained it made no sense that Carla could feel like she needed an introduction to Charlie, while Charlie knew full well who Carla is and even thought they might be dating earlier, see above.
let’s just hope it doesn’t get awkward when it shows that charlie just likes holding ppl’s hands that are nearby without even noticing who they are
I love that Charlie is capable of figuring out that they’re probably dating, but Carla is no.
so it just went from nonsensical to stupid
I’ve decided this is somehow phobic, and I don’t feel like elaborating on or thinking about that decision.
*King Kai laughs*
Uncertainty in romance is most definitely terrifying, so phobic would apply.
Phobic, eh? You should be very afraid.
I mean, I am, but that’s the proper attitude for reading a Willis comic.
insufficient data for a meaningful answer
actual GUFFAWS
–Dave, AC approves, then resumes calculating
As far as I understand it, this continues to be the Quintessential Lesbian Experience™ The two of them might not quite realise they’re into one another until they’ve moved in together and have three pets and nineteen plants.
Getting a Carla avatar here is meaningful somehow
It’s all connected.
tbf friends should be allowed to handhold platonically without it being a big deal lol
tho i can imagine a romcom misunderstanding romance story where one person is ‘thirsty’ and the other person is oblivious b/c they’re simply ace (tho i know plenty of aces date without sexual contact versus fully aroace)
We’ve got people for the second example: Becky and Dina. Though neither were oblivious.
For the first point, that’s the problem. Friends can be all over each other, so when you’re a lesbian everything becomes all the more confusing when you’re trying to parse if someone likes you in that way. It’s hard out here.
I think in some cultures its more common for friends to hold hands or link arms.
Charlie seems pretty convinced that Carla’s into her and vice versa.
I mean, that might just be because Carla’s ability to be subtle about anything is negligible, but still!
Which, for it to be the true Quintessential Lesbian Experience, would happen tomorrow.
30 years later, sitting on the front porch together, watching the sunset: .oO(I wonder if she likes me.)
Carla: I know! I’ll eliminate all ambiguity with a simple note. *casually slips a “do you like me yes/no/maybe” note into Charlie’s hand*
*camera pans out to reveal they’re at the altar at their ultracar-themed wedding*
lol reminds me of that 4chan text like “they’re gonna be married with two kids before she realizes she likes them”
IT’S TOO CUTE. MU HEART…
Why does self-doubt look so adorable on Carla?
rarity value, in part
A match made in… somewhere special, can’t quite recall which
Definitely Seattle.
I mean if we’re going for the pacific northwest I’d say Portland.
It actually worked pretty well to read these panels in reverse order.
Thanks for posting this – it’s not often that a comic works left-to-right or right-to-left and it deserves recognition.
Pretty cool.
The answer to that hope would tell me if I should maybe be #3 instead. Although, I now realize that I forgot her parents. I’ll just stay #2.
big mood
also man why are people surprised carla is insecure
Can’t believe that Carla loudly demanding acknowledgement, playing up her own ego as a performance, was a cover for that she actually yearns for some variety of said acknowledgement.
Dear Willis, please stop being so loud.
Thank you,
Lesbians
The 7th panel had to be cut for space.
The one where Carla says, “Holy shit, neither one of us has any fingernails.”
Stop inventing anatomy.
I hope so, too.
Heeheehee
It is a mystery.
Hey hey hey! I did not give you permission to put up this photo of me in college!
At same time, I am shipping Carla and Charlie so hard, and I’m still confused about they trolled Booster.
I don’t think it was intentional. I think it probably happened a lot like today’s strip.
stay safe, news says record heatwave in Brazil.
I appreciate that.
“Now, if she holds your hand and smiles adoringly at you, she probably is just Canadian and is being polite and keeping your hand warm and spirits up in the cold.”
Secure vs. insecure attachment styles. Cute. It’s subtle, but Charlie is positively beaming in panel 5. Carla’s too insecure to notice.
I had assumed they had gotten married off-panel. Heck – maybe they did.
Just to be sure get her bro to introduce you to her one more time.
Not bro, but sib. (Being enby.)
This is the most adorable thing I’ve seen on this strip for quite some time.
Glad they’re (probably) together, but I’m still confused about how Carla and Charlie got together in the first place.
So are they!
So are We
I am so confused.
can confirm this is THE trans lesbian experience
Hoo yeah! I hear ya!
I like how Willis continues to choose themes in that explore them in several different directions at once. We’re not just talking about Joyce and Joe’s relationship with the ambiguity of different kinds and expressions of intimacy, we’ve got five or six other relationships in which the theme is being explored simultaneously through the lens of different people with different kinds of interpersonal relationships and different kinds of baggage, this one included. It’s cool. It’s masterful. Big fan.
GOD lesbians are dumb
on their wedding day: “oh no does she find me annoying idk”
This page sure feels autobiographical for me.
As a polyamorous trans lesbian I feel this so hard…
Does my girlfriend actually like me?
Yes I know she told me she loves me and we made out but does she actually like me?
D’awww