Chandra is a 12-year-old accidental time traveler with a reluctant new dad, who happens to be a member of a feared galactic crime syndicate.
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Slightly Damned
Chu
Rhea Snaketail returns from the dead, befriending a Demon who falls in love with an Angel. The afterlife ain't what it used to be!
Blindsprings
Kadi Fedoruk
Tamaura, wrested into a world 300 years in the future, must find a way to save the magic fading from her country.
Countdown to Countdown
Velinxi
Iris Black is a self-proclaimed inventor with the curious ability to bring his drawings to life, and yearns to find a space where he can use his powers freely.
Mac Hall
Matt Boyd
The legendary early-aughts webcomic that inspired a wave of webcomic creators.
Paint the Town Red
Windy, Winter Jay Kiakas
Winona runs a werewolf shelter with partner in crime, Odile in the Gothic city of Merlot. One day they take in an injured vampire, and soon unravels many of the dark secrets of Merlot.
2 Slices
RJ Morel
After a case of mistaken identity, will awkward Daisuke find help from excitable Mamo, or will his love life be thrown completely off track?
Fantomestein
Beka Duke
Desperate for companionship, Frankenstein's Monster pretends to be the Opera Ghost. A grave mistake.
Namesake
Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
Cyanide & Happiness
Explosm
Satire, dark humor and surreal humor.
Beeserker
TJ Cordes
This comic is about a robot powered by bees, but it's also about the kind of people who think filling a robot with bees is a good idea, and why they're wrong.
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
BOOKMARK Click "Tag Page" to bookmark a page. When you return to the site, click "Goto Tag" to continue where you left off.
BUFFER WATCH
Comics are currently drawn and uploaded through:
I recall a story by someone whose friend had died. He spent some considerable time struggling with the question of whether to delete the friend’s entry from his contacts. Finally he decided to do it, but for nostalgia’s sake called one last time, to hear his friend’s voice saying “leave a message” — and someone answered. The friend’s son. They were both weirded out for a moment.
prefect timing to keep her from spiraling further. he know she needs to process this shit, and he know she may not want to fully process this in front of him, or at least she doesnt want to do so with all her barriers and emotional control lost. i don’t believe he actually asked the question expecting her to actually forward them to him, only to get her to snort with derision and give her a chance to take a breath. he has got her to admit to herself that there is feels she needs to confront and deal with, and doesnt want her to disolve into a useless puddle because he know allowing her to do so may cause her more trauma she doesnt need at this moment. now to see if he is able to continue this level of emotional growth.
I think there’s a group of people here that any hint of objectification on Joe’s part — even in a context like this where the object of his desire intended for him to see her in that light — is automatically total backsliding. I blame the loss of context in online discourse, myself.
and it will start the whole discussion of “if you didn’t get them, who did? and why didn’t they say anything?” and Myabe Dorothy could use a bit of time before having that conversation directly with Joyce
It wouldn’t be unlike Joyce to have deleted them already. And sure, she could take more but they wouldn’t be those titty pics that Dorothy still has on her phone.
The fact that Dorothy still has those pics should have been a clue for Dorothy about her feelings.
now i am not sure how much of a digital hoarder dottie is, her organizational tendencies lead me to think she probably archives things more than deleting everything, i know i don’t delete old mssgs, to much effort on a device i don’t like owning to beggin with. but i am also of a generation that the fear of the commies getting their hands on our intimate pictures wasso strong i know people who were grounded for 6 months for simply using her real first name as a user name (1999 to be specific on the year), no last name nothing else that could have id’ed her. i entered grade 7 with 56k modems being the fastest way to access the net, and was told there was little to no actaul security online at that time. they really pushed being anonymous online as a necessity of being online.
If Joyce wants him to have those pictures, Joyce can send them to him. Just saying pictures were meant for you is insufficient proof that they actually were. As a general rule, don’t forward nudes just on the say so of anyone but the sender, even if the one saying so is the boyfriend.
Joe can say that, but Dorothy should only believe that if Dorothy heard Joyce say that herself. You need to keep your mental models of all characters seperate and try to keep track of who knows what. Joe knows they were meant for him because Joyce told him. Joyce obviously knows they were meant for Joe. But does Dorothy know that from Joyce or from Joe? The distinction is important.
What are you on about? This isn’t some abstract hypothetical set in a white room with no doors or windows, Joyce literally meant to send pictures of her titties and panties to Joe. She even asked if he got them.
Try to see this from Dorothy’s perspective. Does Dorothy have confirmation that Joyce meant these pictures for Joe from sources other than Joe? You have to remember that Dorothy doesn’t know what we know, she isn’t reading the comic. She can only know for certain that Joyce wants Joe to have these if Joyce confirms it.
(In another dimension of my existence I’m a sysadmin. I can’t afford to assume that I have permission to do things with others’ information; I need to ask them.)
I mean, I think you are technically right in terms of what someone should do IRL. Especially in our modern age where bitter breakups do sometimes lead to maliciously spreading similar photos.
But. It is not a hill I would die on here, when we and Dorothy both know the people involved well enough to know that isn’t a real concern.
I’ll be honest, I actually think I’m giving him points for that too. Hopefully Dorothy’s aware enough to realize that him butting those in is cutting the tension for her on purpose, because wow is she feeling like crap and wallowing in her own feelings.
Having a breather from that into something else is probably good for Dorothy, long as she ruminates on and digests the information on the whole later.
Also I think he’s aware that Dorothy is not comfortable being *this* vulnerable with him specifically. She’s just opened up a lot to someone she’s known and seriously disliked for a long time. Pulling back instead of pressing her, putting a little more distance in so it’s more like the relationship they’re used to, is a kindness. Dorothy is clearly just realizing a whole lot and it’s her choice who she shares this with, to what extent, and when. Joe not trying to be her BFF or her therapist is the right move. He’s giving her an out here and I think that’s really kind of him.
Gotta be careful about breaking people’s expectations for you, it can go poorly. Joe is actually doing something rather emotionally mature by taking an opportunity to deescalate the tension with someone he doesn’t have enough of a rapport with to maintain it healthily. Maybe not entirely purposefully, but he IS a child of divorce.
Let Dorothy shake her head about how Joe “never changes” and then leave her be to think on the ways he has.
Oh wow yeah, I think his parents’ divorce does explain a lot here. He’s always been perceptive about people’s feelings, and he’s always been leery of getting too deep into them – he prefers to keep things lighthearted. That totally makes sense if that’s how he navigated his parents’ split when he was younger. We’ve seen his dad do similar things too, though he appears to be taking things very seriously when it comes to being Stacy’s husband and being a father to Joe and Amber. So, you know, maybe it’s the character arc of the Rosenthal men and we’re going to keep seeing Joe do the right thing by the people around him.
Oh! Didn’t see this! But yeah, I thought so too omg, and Abdomino’s addition on him being a child of divorce is pretty on point considering the method.
To think that she had only freed herself from a certain weight on her shoulders and it seems that there is still a lot to release, but yes, of course she needs help, but the question here is
Will she admit it?
Oh no. Next time they see each other, Joyce is going to be warm and supportive of her friend and blissfully unaware that she’s at the center of Dorothy’s inner turmoil.
Oh yeah, this webcomic is queer as hell, and holy shit I do love to see it. Having been here from the start, getting to see more and more characters realize they’re some flavor of fruity is a constant delight.
But can you forward images? I know that reaction images don’t cross the barrier — I say something someone likes, the recipient (on iPhone) hits the little heart button or whatever, and I get plain text saying “[sender] loved [quote of what I sent]”.
It’s really not. WhatsApp is shite but it definitely has stronger encryption than LTE, both your cell provider and the recipient’s cell provider can read and sell your messages, and most LTE modem implementations have known weaknesses.
Yes WhatsApp could have a backdoor but that would only put it on the same level as LTE.
hahaha jk no we don’t. This is the country that brought you Microsoft, Apple, and EA. Our standards are through the floor when it comes to control of our own computers/phones/data.
i do not understand why they wouldnt. it is arguably easier to use, has better voice and video chat features the screenshare features of teams/zoom, and easy as boomer era televisions to switch phone to computer and continue conversation, and way easier to stop unsolicited messages.
You’re underestimating how unwilling old people are to learn anything new, electronics-wise. Everything is a source of immediate and nigh-insurmountable frustration that simply cannot be fathomed by mortal ken.
my parents are both in their 70s, but my dad had a comp in 1980 and my mom (who hated using anything newer than an electric typewriter till about 10 years ago) has become quite proficient with mobile devices so i guess i am spioled (also my grandfather always had a computer as well)
but i also spent a year as a website tech support (inbound phone) for an unnamed p*b**sh**g Ho**e’s minigame website where if you had enough luck to get struck by lightning twice you might win 5$………………………….
so yeah i get ya
They live on the same floor. She should just hand him the thumb drive they’re on.
That’s what this strip needs. Someone who knows enough about technology to not trust who else is using hers, and is cynical enough, that she has two phones, one dumb, one with a third party OS with Signal. And she uses removeable media whenever possible. I’m going with Rachel.
Not only a good de-escalating and calming approach, but a seriously empathetic one, too. I think she’d be impressed and recalculating her views of him, except for the whole “very deep into her crisis” thing.
Something I do when I read this strip is take final panel jokes out of character a little bit. Like, this is the final panel because it’s funnier / more entertaining storytelling than if we maintained the tension further, not necessarily because this is like, a reversal of character for the patient, understanding Joe we’ve seen in all the other panels of the last few strips…
Anyway, not saying other people’s analyses are wrong! Just wanted to throw that option into the comment section
Yeah, I think it exists mostly just because the strip needed a punchline, but I’m almost certain Joe meant it as a joke anyways. Dorothy’s response also reads as sarcasm. It’s odd to me so many people are taking it seriously.
Lot of people around here clearly live for the drama and will fight for whatever interpretation makes the most. To me it also reads very much like a little joke between friends to cut the tension. Sometimes it also seems like the social skills of the cast can exceed a chunk of the audience’s.
Yep, I’ve tried to explain “the final panel is usually a joke because this is a comic strip and that’s how they work” a few times now and it has yet to go well for me.
I really just reminds me of Rich Burlew, who’s had to explain that he’ll always put the comedy first, worldbuilding and plot a distant second. So the punchline can be a little out of character (or not completely fit in the setting) for purposes of the joke
OTOH, it’s certainly not a hard and fast rule. I don’t think we’re supposed to take last panel jokes as non-canon. Sometimes they even come back to haunt the characters.
Showing my phoniness as a DoA/Shortpacked! fan by revealing that I know very little about Transformers, Christian music, and Marvel comics. I’m sorry, everyone
I wonder if Dorothy is going to tell Joyce or not. Telling her makes sense because Dorothy is honest in general, may feel like hiding it is hypocritical, and probably doesn’t want Joyce to find out from someone else. On the other hand, telling your friend that you like them in a gay way is terrifying, and she may be (erroneously?) worried that coming out as Joyce’s second best friend who fell in love with her may do some harm.
I feel like since they’re both attached (Joyce with Joe, Dorothy with Walky) there really isn’t a point to telling Joyce about it? What purpose would it serve besides making things weird and awkward? Generally not a good look to go “hey I’m in love with you” to someone who’s already in a relationship. Dorothy doesn’t have to tell Joyce to work through her feelings about it.
Nothing good comes of Dorothy dumping this on Joyce in the current situation.
I know everyone here just wants a polycule to happen, but none of the 4 people involved here have ever given any indication that they would want to be with multiple people. Most people are monogamous.
She should tell Joyce because bottling these feelings up for ?? however long has been causing her a lot of confusion and pain.
She should tell Joyce because, like Becky, she’ll probably want some space away from Joyce if no poly reciprocation, and without explanation, Joyce is likely to get really worried about why Dorothy is suddenly pulling away from her.
She should tell Joyce because Joyce has actively begged to know what Dorothy’s secret angst was.
Like……… there are a lot of reasons to tell Joyce. “Making things awkward” isn’t a capital offense in a friendship.
Yeah, and in my experience it can be an important CYA thing. Like, I had a crush on my best friend. Separately, she has a bad tendency to date assholes. I ended up telling her about my crush despite us both being in relationships because she was relaying a lot to me about this toxic dude she was with, and I didn’t want it to be a thing later. Just like “Hey, btw, I’ve kind of had a crush on you for a while. I don’t really have control over that and I have no intentions to act on those feelings, I just don’t want you finding out later and thinking there are ulterior motives when I tell you that your boyfriend sucks. Because he’s really a huge asshole.”
I just don’t like people taking my opinions or statements without full knowledge of what biases or whatever I might be having about a situation.
(My husband thought the entire exchange was hilarious and my best friend and I are still best friends.)
Your verbiage there is also a very good example of how Dorothy could tell Joyce about her feelings without it in any way being an expectation that Joyce and Joe break up, which I guess has been escaping people who don’t want her to say anything.
But yeah, I have said similar things to straight female friends. They didn’t always take it well, but you know what? Sometimes you would, actually, rather ruin a friendship with someone rather than continue to live a lie.
I dunno man if I were dating Dorothy and I heard that she went and confessed she had feelings to someone else, I would be feeling pretty upset! Like everyone seems to be ignoring Walky here? He already has some issues with feeling like he’s “not enough” (especially wrt Dorothy) and that’d hurt him something fierce, especially since they only just got back together and it could feel like she only got with him to try and smother her feelings for Joyce. This has the potential of ruining both a friendship (with Joyce) and a relationship (with Walky).
Her feelings have been causing her confusion and pain because she hasn’t been acknowledging them. You can acknowledge your feelings for someone else without telling them about it. People do it all the time – people have feelings for others and don’t tell them and are fine.
I mean, I guess that depends on whether Dorothy thinks her feelings for Joyce are likely to go away anytime soon, and whether or not she feels something just as strong for Walky.
Because if they aren’t, or she doesn’t, then breaking up with Walky is probably the move to make whether she tells anybody anything.
I will +1 this if there’s any chance of Joyce reciprocating. I mean, the other way around would be a lot messier and more trash-goblin-approved, but in terms of “what Dorothy SHOULD do”, yes.
If there’s zero chance of Joyce reciprocating, the order stops being quite so important, but Walky should definitely hear about this, even if Dorothy doesn’t give him any details.
Like, I definitely wasn’t ignoring Walky in my analysis of any of this; I don’t actually think he and Dorothy are that invested in each other this time around, but he is another person who deserves to know if his girlfriend is in love with someone else.
And Joyce also deserves to know, especially if it would make her uncomfortable, before she comes to Dorothy with any more ideas like “helping me make a list of all the sex-type stuff I’m okay doing with Joe” or “it would really help my sexual comfort if I could watch you and Walky sleep together”.
Like. Dorothy and Joyce are already pretty codependent here and the boundaries they have with each other are very messy. It isn’t as if they’re acquaintances and Dorothy can just dial back how much time she spends with Joyce for a while to wait for her feelings to fade.
I have had a good convo like that, before, so I don’t think it’s inherently a bad idea.
Person A was dating person B and told me that she caught feelings with me, wasn’t looking to pursue it (I didn’t want to and they weren’t poly in that way), but it was important to her acknowledge it because she needed a bit of space to process it with pB and didn’t want to ghost me.
If Dorothy needs to step back from Joyce a bit to deal with it, or needs some other change in their friendship, then telling her why is possibly appropriate
I wonder if it’d go better if Joe mediated, actually. Like, “Hey Joyce, Dorothy had something to tell you, but wanted me to be present for it.” Or something.
At the very least, I hope Dorothy gets to a point where she can accept her bisexuality and come out to her friends. Whether or not that includes an admission of interest in Joyce specifically, I really want her to get to be herself fully.
I don’t get it. Those pics were meant for Joe, and Joyce was keen to hear he had gotten them. Remember? How is this in any way out of line? If anything, Joe should ask Dorothy to delete them if we’re being strict about boundaries and so forth.
The question is not whether we know they were meant for Joe, the question is whether Dotty knows they were meant for Joe. And I don’t mean assume, I mean know. As in actual word from actual Joyce that actually says those were meant for Joe.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy verbally stated her guess that the pics were for Joe before. Seeing how the pics were DEFINITELY not intended for HER. And Joyce told Joe she was sending him nudes he never received, so he’s confirming Dorothy’s guess.
Like the only other option here would be if Dorothy assumed the pics WERE meant for her, which would be… interesting. But I’m pretty sure when she talked to Amber, she was like “I think this is meant for Joe”.
I mean, if we’re taking that angle then the real question is why Dorothy still has intimate photographs she knows damn well weren’t taken for her to see in her possession instead of having deleted them immediately.
And hopefully, it’s quiet introspection about the fact that now, if she wants to achieve her new goals in life, if she wants to achieve her own happiness, then the thing standing in her way is Joe. And therefore, he has to go….
I’m not sure if this is good timing or bad timing on Joe’s part.
The bad timing argument’s pretty obvious.
But at the same time Dorothy just got something like three gut punches in a row, the most recent being “Joe, of all people, is actually better than me in this moment”. A joke that halfway undermines that might take the sting off of it.
Everyone else is talking about Joe’s final line, so I’ll be the odd one out and instead compliment the frankly sublime facial expressions in panels 4 and 5.
I feel like, beyond being the intended recipient of pics it’s likely Joyce already deleted and all…..
See, Dorothy was this close to break down crying. And Joe’s been patient and shown her as much empathy as he’s able to express — After hearing over and over Dorothy hates him. So he interrupts the moment. Maybe not in the best way, but he prevents her from ending up crying in front of him: Those floodgates would cause enough shame to drown her. Being Known is such a mortifying ordeal.
I was thinking of characters that Dorothy could confide in about this whole liking Joyce business and Danny seems like the best answer. Danny has known Dorothy for longer than the rest of the cast and also has recently discovered his bisexuality.
HUH. This would be really cool!! I’d love them to interact healthily. Danny has really found himself, it’s likely he won’t give the smothering vibes Dorothy used to dislike, and he’s a really empathetic guy.
Dorothy needs friends to lean on and my boy is one of the most stable people in the cast.
wow, you’re right! I’d enjoy this a lot. we’ll see what Dorothy does next…yeah, yeah, it’s called Dumbing of Age, not Smarting of Age, but I’m still hoping she does find someone to reach out to
I just mean that the breakup was much harder on Danny than it was on Dorothy, and it was kind of an important, formative relationship. There may still be stuff to unpack there.
I do. but in this case I feel like the gag is way too forced, it breaks the emotional direction in a bad way, and I don’t like it.
it’s there because the genre/structure *demands* it, not because it belongs or should be. like the single obligatory cuss to avoid being stuck with a G rating.
I don’t care. I don’t care what Joe’s motives were. Don’t care if the gag is forced by genre structure. Don’t care if you don’t care that I don’t care, because there is no reason that you should. What’s important is that it brings an important scene to a conclusion.
Joe is a maestro of mammaries, a bravuro of boobs, a connoisseur of cleavage. He will know right off those aren’t Joyce’s. (debatably recognizing Jennifer immediately)
The whole thing is way funnier if Joyce took the initial photo with a) a chunky polaroid or b) one of those disposable Fuji cameras and then she had to wait a week to get the film developed
I’m sure it’s a typo, but spelling it “penisis” makes me think of a classic YouTube Poop edit where Joyce originally just said “penis” but you took the “is” and copied it so she’s making the exact same sound twice.
The foreshadowing of David not only having expressed being cool with polyamory but seeming to actively prefer it and suggests it…. Well, it could work out, you know?
Yeah, and Walky has indicated that he’d trade a blow job for a piza. With Walky there’s a fine line between nonchalantly cutting to the chase and Walky just being a smart ass.
Look at it from Walky’s perspective. An open/poly relationship would let him be friends with Benefits with Amber without feeling like a POS about it, as long as he’s good about communicating it.
In my head, Walky would almost immediately go deer-in-the-headlights at the idea of having to navigate the Power of the L-Word with more than one person, yeah.
But I could also easily seeing Walky and Dorothy breaking up over this, even if Joyce doesn’t reciprocate, and that would leave Walky free for Amber, who is also, coincidentally, free right now.
I also think Walky would benefit from some time spent single, but like, DoA time dilution, man.
Arms up because I was exactly right about Joes position being one of sympathy because he ALSO really denied having romantic feelings about joyce!! Because he didn’t want a genuine romantic connection with ANYONE!! *And because of his issues*.
He just. Literally knows how she feels. god damn i love this fucking webcomic.
hi5 for “Joe isn’t being sympathetic here, he’s being empathetic”
Like yes, he’s being both a good friend and a good guy, but it was extremely easy for him to put himself almost completely in her shoes. Joe was in about as much denial over his feelings for Joyce as it is possible for a heterosexual boy to be over feelings for a girl.
Exactly!! This is like. The one situation he’s run into where he does genuinely understand. Dude went through a whole ‘ah hell I do have this kind of feeling and its for This Specific Person I already have a different relationship I value’ arc.
I like how so many people are up in arms against Joe for requesting pictures he knows were meant for him, but nobody is mad at Dorothy for keeping titpics that she knows were NOT.
Dorothy was sending lewd photos to his girlfriend, when confronted talked about how she should be better than him, and Joe has responded with understanding and empathy. He’s history’s greatest monster.
Not after this conversation. I think Dorothy’s more likely to overcompensate (again, some more) and not only delete these photos but also EVERY photo Joyce has ever sent her, even the ones that were on purpose.
I mean, I can’t be mad at him. He’s 100% right to reclaim what’s rightfully his and it might be healthier for Dorothy to not fully break down and this is as distracting as it gets.
I didn’t expect Joe to be such a good choice to talk with Dorothy about this, but he’s doing pretty well so far. He’s grown a lot as a person since the start of DoA.
I feel like Danny as best boy COULD have happened, but the story just… really hasn’t been about his sector of the universe for the most part? He hasn’t gotten nearly as much character growth as Joe even though he totally has a lot of room for it and a lot of factors that could lead to it. I think it’s possible for Danny to become best boy. It’s just right now? In this potential moment. Nah, def Joe all the way.
It’s not mutually exclusive but I think woobie tends to GENERALLY overide my personal perception of the dominant trope of a characters archetype. Woobies generally tend to get beat up or have unfortunate things happen to them in a way that tends to GENERALLY (not always) deny their agency to make progress. So yeah, I don’t disagree that it could ‘up chances’, but pulling off both requires good writing and a type of effort from the character we haven’t seen from Danny specifically.
For me, Danny will forever be graded on a curve of telling Ethan it’s “good” his dying friend is in the hospital in critical condition. Like…holy shit. I don’t care that Mike was a huge dick, absolutely uncalled for.
Yeaaah. I like Danny a lot, but I think that is an absolutely fair permanent -20 debuff to his Good Boy-itude. I’ve hated a lot of people, but I’d never speak a word of it to the people around them on their potential deathbed. My perception is often very flawed, and the pain other people feel is real regardless of if I understand it or not.
damn, I remember when I used to enjoy reading the comments section but for some reason the auto hate Joe section is just all here recently. people acting like he’s being some kind of evil malicious villain here, frankly to me it sounds like he’s treating Dotty like one of the guys. ~<3
I do actually, there is a sense of community when you read/interact with people in these comments sections. and Liara up near the top saying “there’s the Joe we know and loathe again” sound like hate to me, and if you read the thread following it, it’s a lot of people just being super negative, much like recent interactions where people were claiming that Dorothy was abusing a position of power to manipulate Joyce and that their interactions weren’t ok. just been a lot of arguments lately and we frankly don’t need that right now, us nerds need to band together so when all the old people die we can take over the world. ~<3
It always amazes me how differently people read the comments. There’s definitely been a little Joe hate recently. There always is for any character when they’re in any kind of conflict with another.
My impression is there’s been a lot more people outraged at Dorothy for not immediately accepting his change (or in some cases for thinking he had any problems he needed to change at all).
But I think we all (including me) have a tendency to react more to those comments we disagree with and see those opinions as more prevalent than they are.
— Still don’t think Joe is being, or trying to be, a jerk. I don’t think he’s said anything with the intent to “twist the knife” at any point.
— But I also don’t think Dorothy has actually been trying to turn this around on Joe at any point. I don’t think her “wait, are you snooping through her phone?!” was even a deliberate deflection, much less an attack. imho, any blows she’s actually landed here have been less a targeted assault on Joe and more of an explosion that is happening with him in range.
— “Wait, Dorothy still has the photos? That’s gross.”
I mean, from a certain point of view, sure, but I don’t think she’s been looking at them. I would be surprised if she’s even opened that text conversation with Joyce since she finally bit the bullet and re-sent her own photo.
Like. She went to Amber for help not only deleting the photos from that conversation but scrubbing them from the Internet, and then she got critically distracted by the idea that sending a suggestive photo of herself in kind was the “platonic, chill, Straight Girl” thing to do, and then the photo didn’t go through, and then she spent a couple of hours kind of agonizing over whether to re-send it, and then she was hit by a flood of regret, and… when we next saw her, she had her nose buried in her textbook and was trying not to think about any of this.
Since then, Joe has (gently but firmly) forced her to confront the possibility that she might have feelings for Joyce, which sure seems to have been a genuine shock to her system.
At what point in this sequence of events are we imagining Dorothy scrolled back up to gaze lasciviously at Joyce’s blurry mis-sent photos?
I genuinely think that if she had been able to bring herself to open that text thread again, she would have already deleted them.
If Dorothy were a straight man, or if Dorothy was an out and proud bi gal, I might be more sympathetic to the notion that confessing her feelings to Joyce would just make things weird for Joyce with no upside.
And sure, Dorothy COULD just come out to Joyce without mentioning her feelings. I bet Joyce definitely wouldn’t immediately ask how Dorothy knows and whether she has feelings for any girls. I bet Joyce wouldn’t immediately, herself, tease Dorothy about the laundry room incident. I bet Joyce would have no questions at all for her best friend, who she’s been (lovingly!!!) hounding for the last week or so to reveal her Dorothy Secrets. Yeah, that conversation would go super smoothly.
And if Dorothy then wanted space to deal with her own heartbreak in private, I bet Joyce wouldn’t be at all confused or hurt or worried…
Yeah! Dorothy should definitely continue to keep this part a secret.
(For folks who read the laundry room incident uncharitably, it frankly seems even more important that Dorothy admit to her feelings here.) (But I cannot foresee any version of events where Dorothy keeping this to herself was better for anyone involved.)
I mean, I’m kind of talking myself into Dorothy doing all of those things, because this isn’t Smarting of Age and the drama potential is enormous, but in terms of what she should do……….
I’m not particularly pro ‘Dorothy telling Joyce’ before she’s done a lot of self reflection and therapy. Her friendship with Joyce is one of the few anchors she’s got in life. People don’t make the best anchors but it is in fact what she has right now.
BUUUUUUUT wow you are convincing the gremlin in me that’d be hilarious behavior from Joyce soooooo. YEAAAAAH LETS DO IT lmao.
Like, I’ll reiterate that I currently think Joyce’s reaction is not going to be “oh, Dorothy, I love you too, and I have two hands so we can all make this work” (though I would certainly like to be proven wrong), but yep, when I imagine Dorothy trying to tell Joyce she’s bi without giving away why she knows, there are so many fun ways Joyce could react.
The snooping through her phone bit, I thinks it’s established that she has trusted friends and companions screen her phone for contacts from certain parties. So it may simply be that Joe was doing that today and saw the text preview or soemthing
Oh, we know that’s more or less the case. He was holding Joyce’s phone when the photo finally went through and he’s confirmed in this conversation that he saw the text preview.
Prediction: This is what breaks up Joyce and Joe. Joyce will be like “Joe, I’m finally ready, take me now” and Joe will be like “I can’t, it would feel like a betrayal of someone I’ve recently developed a deep sense of kinship with” and Joyce will be all “Huh?” and Joe will be “Go to her now. Leave me and go to her.” and Joyce will be “Who? Becky? You must be talking about Becky, right?” and then Joyce will go and have a threesome with Becky and Dina and then when Joe finds out he’ll be so distraught about missing out on it that Danny has to comfort him and then it’ll basically all be over
Gonna burnish my reputation as “that guy whose odd interpretations are always wrong.”
I think Dorothy is running on assumptions about what she feels, having spent no time yet to analyze her feelings. The multitude shouting “bi! bi! bi!” could very well be right, but…it’s still not impossible that Dorothy wants to be, not Joyce’s lover, but her mother. The mother she should have had? The parent who can’t let go, as her “child” is growing up and branching out? The mama bear protecting her cub from Joedanger?
Before laughing this off, consider that Dorothy has spent years preparing for the job of mothering an entire nation.
I think it’s a lot easier for a closeted sapphic person to think they’re feeling something platonic when it’s actually sexual than it is for them to think they’re feeling something sexual when it’s actually maternal. I think if Dorothy wanted to be Joyce’s mom, the idea of being attracted to her would have been repulsive.
Loading ...
then Dotty accidentally forwards Jennifer’s titty pic
[Joe doesn’t exactly COMPLAIN]
Oh come on. You know she’s going to accidentally send Joyce’s pics to Becky.
That would be the funniest next event.
Even worse, she manages to send them to Blaine’s phone.
Isn’t Blaine dead?
Did I wake up in an alternate dimension where your phone stops existing after you die?
It usually gets disconnected from the network. Nobody would receive the message.
Right, but that’s not an automatic process. I figure maybe Yuri or an associate of his has it now and is handling his usual jobs.
I recall a story by someone whose friend had died. He spent some considerable time struggling with the question of whether to delete the friend’s entry from his contacts. Finally he decided to do it, but for nostalgia’s sake called one last time, to hear his friend’s voice saying “leave a message” — and someone answered. The friend’s son. They were both weirded out for a moment.
Aannd there’s the Joe I know and loath again
I don’t see what the problem is? Joyce wanted him to have the tit pics. Joe has a right to see them and be excited about them
it is kind of shitty timing on his part, though
Yeah, and he’s done well enough in this conversation that we can easily excuse that sort of thing.
Shitty timing from a watsonian standpoint, probably. From a doylist standpoint, it’s perfect timing, as we need a punchline every now and then.
(reposting this further up)
I would rather have no punchline, or a cutaway to someone else doing a funny thing, than what we got today.
Yeah there’s more than a few strips like that in this comic
You misspelled “damn you, Willis”.
+1
Yeah, I was hoping this conversation would continue, but apparently no.
who said its over?
Comedic timing. Tomorrow, Joe’s gonna leave and the second he’s out the door, Dorothy’s gonna be looking at pictures of Tifa.
reminds me of https://www.dumbingofage.com/crowded/
but that ended up catalyzing the drama.
It’s perfectly fine timing to release tension and switch the subject.
This.
prefect timing to keep her from spiraling further. he know she needs to process this shit, and he know she may not want to fully process this in front of him, or at least she doesnt want to do so with all her barriers and emotional control lost. i don’t believe he actually asked the question expecting her to actually forward them to him, only to get her to snort with derision and give her a chance to take a breath. he has got her to admit to herself that there is feels she needs to confront and deal with, and doesnt want her to disolve into a useless puddle because he know allowing her to do so may cause her more trauma she doesnt need at this moment. now to see if he is able to continue this level of emotional growth.
exactly, y’all need some chill. ~<3
Yeah, like I’d love to know what he did here that is so bad when those were intended for him from the start.
I think there’s a group of people here that any hint of objectification on Joe’s part — even in a context like this where the object of his desire intended for him to see her in that light — is automatically total backsliding. I blame the loss of context in online discourse, myself.
correct, but asking for Dorothy to forward them instead of Joyce *does* come off as gloating
You know if he asks Joyce, Dorothy is just going to get another copy.
and it will start the whole discussion of “if you didn’t get them, who did? and why didn’t they say anything?” and Myabe Dorothy could use a bit of time before having that conversation directly with Joyce
It wouldn’t be unlike Joyce to have deleted them already. And sure, she could take more but they wouldn’t be those titty pics that Dorothy still has on her phone.
The fact that Dorothy still has those pics should have been a clue for Dorothy about her feelings.
now i am not sure how much of a digital hoarder dottie is, her organizational tendencies lead me to think she probably archives things more than deleting everything, i know i don’t delete old mssgs, to much effort on a device i don’t like owning to beggin with. but i am also of a generation that the fear of the commies getting their hands on our intimate pictures wasso strong i know people who were grounded for 6 months for simply using her real first name as a user name (1999 to be specific on the year), no last name nothing else that could have id’ed her. i entered grade 7 with 56k modems being the fastest way to access the net, and was told there was little to no actaul security online at that time. they really pushed being anonymous online as a necessity of being online.
If he asks Joyce, where they actually went will come out and Joyce may freak.
If Joyce wants him to have those pictures, Joyce can send them to him. Just saying pictures were meant for you is insufficient proof that they actually were. As a general rule, don’t forward nudes just on the say so of anyone but the sender, even if the one saying so is the boyfriend.
But she said they were meant for him. Joyce told him she sent some spicy pictures and those pictures ended up going to Dorothy. Ergo, meant for him
Joe can say that, but Dorothy should only believe that if Dorothy heard Joyce say that herself. You need to keep your mental models of all characters seperate and try to keep track of who knows what. Joe knows they were meant for him because Joyce told him. Joyce obviously knows they were meant for Joe. But does Dorothy know that from Joyce or from Joe? The distinction is important.
God you are insufferable.
Dorothy herself already said “oh these were clearly meant for Joe”.
And if they weren’t well fuck i guess Joes girlfriend is cheating on him, that has to be a conversation
What are you on about? This isn’t some abstract hypothetical set in a white room with no doors or windows, Joyce literally meant to send pictures of her titties and panties to Joe. She even asked if he got them.
Try to see this from Dorothy’s perspective. Does Dorothy have confirmation that Joyce meant these pictures for Joe from sources other than Joe? You have to remember that Dorothy doesn’t know what we know, she isn’t reading the comic. She can only know for certain that Joyce wants Joe to have these if Joyce confirms it.
No worries, that’s covered in this one. She already assumed the pics were for Joe, which is what started the chain leading to all this.
Taffy’s right, people who say we should look at things from Dorothy’s perspective ought to make sure they know what Dorothy’s perspective is.
Damn I can’t believe you’d spread Joyce’s spicy pics around without her permission by making it your grav /j
I’m cheating on Joe
Yes, assumed. Regret is right.
(In another dimension of my existence I’m a sysadmin. I can’t afford to assume that I have permission to do things with others’ information; I need to ask them.)
It’s fine, actually. It’s not a court of law.
The rules for jobs, especially jobs where you have access to things like that, are very different than the rules between friends.
Why do you think Dorothy thinks so little of Joyce that she’d cheat on Joe?
Because that’s the only reasonable thought process if Dorothy doesn’t make the completely rational assumption that the pictures were meant for Joe
I mean, I think you are technically right in terms of what someone should do IRL. Especially in our modern age where bitter breakups do sometimes lead to maliciously spreading similar photos.
But. It is not a hill I would die on here, when we and Dorothy both know the people involved well enough to know that isn’t a real concern.
Because people gotta be mad at Joe and take everything he does in the worst possible way. Like me and Dottie.
And you are both equally annoying.
See, this is why we only hang out to drink wine.
While I am docking points for it, he’s not like out of line or anything. They were meant for him.
I’ll be honest, I actually think I’m giving him points for that too. Hopefully Dorothy’s aware enough to realize that him butting those in is cutting the tension for her on purpose, because wow is she feeling like crap and wallowing in her own feelings.
Having a breather from that into something else is probably good for Dorothy, long as she ruminates on and digests the information on the whole later.
Yeah, that’s how I’m reading it too.
Yeah how dare he
*checks notes*
Request pictures that were intended for him in the first place
Also I think he’s aware that Dorothy is not comfortable being *this* vulnerable with him specifically. She’s just opened up a lot to someone she’s known and seriously disliked for a long time. Pulling back instead of pressing her, putting a little more distance in so it’s more like the relationship they’re used to, is a kindness. Dorothy is clearly just realizing a whole lot and it’s her choice who she shares this with, to what extent, and when. Joe not trying to be her BFF or her therapist is the right move. He’s giving her an out here and I think that’s really kind of him.
That’s pretty much how I interpreted the last panel as well.
Gotta be careful about breaking people’s expectations for you, it can go poorly. Joe is actually doing something rather emotionally mature by taking an opportunity to deescalate the tension with someone he doesn’t have enough of a rapport with to maintain it healthily. Maybe not entirely purposefully, but he IS a child of divorce.
Let Dorothy shake her head about how Joe “never changes” and then leave her be to think on the ways he has.
Oh wow yeah, I think his parents’ divorce does explain a lot here. He’s always been perceptive about people’s feelings, and he’s always been leery of getting too deep into them – he prefers to keep things lighthearted. That totally makes sense if that’s how he navigated his parents’ split when he was younger. We’ve seen his dad do similar things too, though he appears to be taking things very seriously when it comes to being Stacy’s husband and being a father to Joe and Amber. So, you know, maybe it’s the character arc of the Rosenthal men and we’re going to keep seeing Joe do the right thing by the people around him.
Good observation
Oh! Didn’t see this! But yeah, I thought so too omg, and Abdomino’s addition on him being a child of divorce is pretty on point considering the method.
Yeah how dare he
*checks notes*
exist in a sitcom
“WHO ELSE BUT JOOOE!!”
You never really know what he’s gonna do next!
Quagmire jokes?
Humorous juxtaposition of exaggerating Joe’s worst qualities and how it still doesn’t come close to an actual sex offender.
Like, seriously. Have some perspective, people.
I thought it was perfect. The pics were meant for him. He didn’t even ask Dorothy to delete her copies.
The slow, inevitable decline of Dorothy has never felt more palpable. Please, for the love of God, someone help her
To think that she had only freed herself from a certain weight on her shoulders and it seems that there is still a lot to release, but yes, of course she needs help, but the question here is
Will she admit it?
That’s my secret, Captain. The weight never actually left.
It’s gonna be utterly hilarious if Joyce asks about the washing machine when Dottie finally gets the ovaries to have the talk with Joyce.
Like watching a clown get a beanbag round to the testicles.
Oh no. Next time they see each other, Joyce is going to be warm and supportive of her friend and blissfully unaware that she’s at the center of Dorothy’s inner turmoil.
*plays “Pink” by The Pillows on hacked muzak*
I was hoping she’d maybe beat on his chest a bit, then have a good cry.
I thought the last panel yesterday looked like “bursting into tears in the next panel.” Kinda sorry that she at last managed an effective deflection.
It’s hard to see Dorothy crying. I wonder if Willis make this purposely
That’d be a second demerit for Joe, but honestly he’s handled this shockingly well.
…that de-escalated quickly…
Helps that Joe has steadfastly refused to escalate.
Joe did much more damage to her psyche by showing he was a mature responsible friend than he ever could have as an asshole.
there’s nothing to gloat if denial is the name of the game… also are those pics worth it
oooo new Patreon banner
My hot take is that i’m just glad to see another bisexual join this already bisexual-heavy webcomic. you love to see it.
Oh yeah, this webcomic is queer as hell, and holy shit I do love to see it. Having been here from the start, getting to see more and more characters realize they’re some flavor of fruity is a constant delight.
Perfect gravatar for that observation.
you DO love to see it and also I personally love your handle
Yeah but it turns out Joe has an Iphone and Dorothy is on Android! Too bad for Joe.
I don’t understand this comment? You can forward messages from Android to Apple users…
It’s not really meant to make sense? It was a comment for my own amusement mostly. I didn’t really think too hard about it. Sorry for the confusion.
But can you forward images? I know that reaction images don’t cross the barrier — I say something someone likes, the recipient (on iPhone) hits the little heart button or whatever, and I get plain text saying “[sender] loved [quote of what I sent]”.
You Americans and your refusal to just use WhatsApp baffles me
WhatsApp is a Meta product. Supporting them isn’t really big in America right now for reasons related to swastikas and handmaids.
Yeah we used to use WhatsApp but then we realized it was even less secure than SMS.
It’s really not. WhatsApp is shite but it definitely has stronger encryption than LTE, both your cell provider and the recipient’s cell provider can read and sell your messages, and most LTE modem implementations have known weaknesses.
Yes WhatsApp could have a backdoor but that would only put it on the same level as LTE.
Are you confusing it with Telegram or something? WhatsApp is end-to-end-encrypted.
I just don’t say anything secret over the air.
WhatsApp is owned by Meta and fuck Meta
It’s a privacy nightmare
We prefer Signal
hahaha jk no we don’t. This is the country that brought you Microsoft, Apple, and EA. Our standards are through the floor when it comes to control of our own computers/phones/data.
How about Signal?
just use discord, it does everything whts app, teams, skype (rip, wait no ef macrohard) apples messenger does but better.
Dawg my 65 year old parents are *not* joining discord. P sure most non Americans use WhatsApp for family and such
i do not understand why they wouldnt. it is arguably easier to use, has better voice and video chat features the screenshare features of teams/zoom, and easy as boomer era televisions to switch phone to computer and continue conversation, and way easier to stop unsolicited messages.
You’re underestimating how unwilling old people are to learn anything new, electronics-wise. Everything is a source of immediate and nigh-insurmountable frustration that simply cannot be fathomed by mortal ken.
At least, that’s the case around here.
my parents are both in their 70s, but my dad had a comp in 1980 and my mom (who hated using anything newer than an electric typewriter till about 10 years ago) has become quite proficient with mobile devices so i guess i am spioled (also my grandfather always had a computer as well)
but i also spent a year as a website tech support (inbound phone) for an unnamed p*b**sh**g Ho**e’s minigame website where if you had enough luck to get struck by lightning twice you might win 5$………………………….
so yeah i get ya
Why the fuck did you censor “publishing house”?
cause it was funny
You might legitimately be the most dangerous person in this website.
Don’t forget some of us over 65s were creating this stuff! We are not all stupid, doddery and unable to change – technologically or sexually!
The discord mobile app is trash though…
Several friend groups of mine have abandoned WhatsApp entirely, to go to Signal. Better privacy and security attributes.
They live on the same floor. She should just hand him the thumb drive they’re on.
That’s what this strip needs. Someone who knows enough about technology to not trust who else is using hers, and is cynical enough, that she has two phones, one dumb, one with a third party OS with Signal. And she uses removeable media whenever possible. I’m going with Rachel.
dammit
so close to crying and she really needs to cry about this
It really hurts to see her like this, and it seems like she’s going to stop herself from letting out a tear.
Joe’s vengeance is now complete.
But he doesn’t realize a Dorothy without bisexual denial is a Dorothy without fear.
NEXT – DOROTHY: BORN AGAIN
These comments don’t have any kind of like button so I will manually say that I thought this comment was funny.
The origin story of Dorothy, the super-villain!
Possible names:
The Organizer [TM]
The Spreadsheeter [TM]
The Refiler [TM]
The Highlightrix [TM]
I am glad that Joe didn’t match her energy, so to speak, and let it pass.
Not only a good de-escalating and calming approach, but a seriously empathetic one, too. I think she’d be impressed and recalculating her views of him, except for the whole “very deep into her crisis” thing.
Something I do when I read this strip is take final panel jokes out of character a little bit. Like, this is the final panel because it’s funnier / more entertaining storytelling than if we maintained the tension further, not necessarily because this is like, a reversal of character for the patient, understanding Joe we’ve seen in all the other panels of the last few strips…
Anyway, not saying other people’s analyses are wrong! Just wanted to throw that option into the comment section
That’s a really sensible perspective!
That’s pretty much how I took this as well. Not exactly non-canon, but influenced more by the need for a punchline there than by Joe’s character.
I wish this was a more common approach
Yeah, I think it exists mostly just because the strip needed a punchline, but I’m almost certain Joe meant it as a joke anyways. Dorothy’s response also reads as sarcasm. It’s odd to me so many people are taking it seriously.
Lot of people around here clearly live for the drama and will fight for whatever interpretation makes the most. To me it also reads very much like a little joke between friends to cut the tension. Sometimes it also seems like the social skills of the cast can exceed a chunk of the audience’s.
Once again reaching for the like button we don’t have, especially for your last sentence.
I think it’s legitimately deeply funny how many people read this strip every day and don’t seem to acknowledge this very explicit thing.
Look, I don’t understand the concept of a joke and I am going to make that everyone’s problem
Well, yeah, it’s one of those things we understand implicitly and accept for sakes of the fiction.
Final Panel Punchline
Fourth Wall
Time Delay
Time Skip
Superheroic Realism (like Magical Realism but with superheroing, instead)
Yep, I’ve tried to explain “the final panel is usually a joke because this is a comic strip and that’s how they work” a few times now and it has yet to go well for me.
I really just reminds me of Rich Burlew, who’s had to explain that he’ll always put the comedy first, worldbuilding and plot a distant second. So the punchline can be a little out of character (or not completely fit in the setting) for purposes of the joke
OTOH, it’s certainly not a hard and fast rule. I don’t think we’re supposed to take last panel jokes as non-canon. Sometimes they even come back to haunt the characters.
Joe, you loveable oaf!
Dorothy has so much further to fall, doesn’t she? So hyped for the destruction of her superego.
I think the next part is when she stays in a church for awhile until she finds out the nun is her mother.
Then goes after Joefisk.
Showing my phoniness as a DoA/Shortpacked! fan by revealing that I know very little about Transformers, Christian music, and Marvel comics. I’m sorry, everyone
Joe about to send a ‘roided up Super Soldier experiment to kill Dorothy in the street.
Sadly, said experiments gets slapped by Tony who tells him to stay off the internet.
Dorothy: …the trade is fair
Dude.
Okay but when is Joyce gonna learn about the messages
Do we know that she’s unaware?
Those lewds weren’t great though. I hope Joe can get off to the abstract concept of boobs rendered in dim blurred hyper close ups.
It’s the abstract concept of Joyce’s boobs rendered in dim blurred hyper close ups. Of course he can.
Joe probably once cranked it to two oranges in a bra, and only complained because the store was out of grapefruit.
It’s the thought that counts.
….
… actually I’m questioning just how much thought went into deciding to send that pic.
The panty shot sucked, but the booby pic was actually decent.
That’s not the tiddy pic I remember. To be fair it did use negative space pretty well. Very graphic. It could be a logo. Joyce has talent.
Joyce as primary school teacher with secret boudoir photography hobby on the side.
Yeah, I see that.
I think Joyce could send a single pixel of areola blown up to full screen size, just a whole screen blurry brown, and he would still love it bc Joyce
I’ve always assumed Joyce’s areolas are the same color as her eyes.
Like Pearl?
I haven’t seen Pearl’s boobs, that you know of, but yes. Exactly like Pearl.
I wonder if Dorothy is going to tell Joyce or not. Telling her makes sense because Dorothy is honest in general, may feel like hiding it is hypocritical, and probably doesn’t want Joyce to find out from someone else. On the other hand, telling your friend that you like them in a gay way is terrifying, and she may be (erroneously?) worried that coming out as Joyce’s second best friend who fell in love with her may do some harm.
It will be really complicated, but yes, if she hides it it will be more dangerous.
And how much Becky…with her anything can happen.
So long as Joyce doesn’t reciprocate Dottie’s feelings, Becky would probably be the rock for Dottie in the “not lesbian enough to beat Joe” club.
I feel like since they’re both attached (Joyce with Joe, Dorothy with Walky) there really isn’t a point to telling Joyce about it? What purpose would it serve besides making things weird and awkward? Generally not a good look to go “hey I’m in love with you” to someone who’s already in a relationship. Dorothy doesn’t have to tell Joyce to work through her feelings about it.
Yeah this.
Nothing good comes of Dorothy dumping this on Joyce in the current situation.
I know everyone here just wants a polycule to happen, but none of the 4 people involved here have ever given any indication that they would want to be with multiple people. Most people are monogamous.
Most people think they are (serially) monogamous, but consider the massive social bias in that direction.
Knowing Dorothy, she might be feeling that the secrecy of her feelings are creating a divide between her and Joyce. Not the feelings, but the secrecy.
She should tell Joyce because bottling these feelings up for ?? however long has been causing her a lot of confusion and pain.
She should tell Joyce because, like Becky, she’ll probably want some space away from Joyce if no poly reciprocation, and without explanation, Joyce is likely to get really worried about why Dorothy is suddenly pulling away from her.
She should tell Joyce because Joyce has actively begged to know what Dorothy’s secret angst was.
Like……… there are a lot of reasons to tell Joyce. “Making things awkward” isn’t a capital offense in a friendship.
Yeah, and in my experience it can be an important CYA thing. Like, I had a crush on my best friend. Separately, she has a bad tendency to date assholes. I ended up telling her about my crush despite us both being in relationships because she was relaying a lot to me about this toxic dude she was with, and I didn’t want it to be a thing later. Just like “Hey, btw, I’ve kind of had a crush on you for a while. I don’t really have control over that and I have no intentions to act on those feelings, I just don’t want you finding out later and thinking there are ulterior motives when I tell you that your boyfriend sucks. Because he’s really a huge asshole.”
I just don’t like people taking my opinions or statements without full knowledge of what biases or whatever I might be having about a situation.
(My husband thought the entire exchange was hilarious and my best friend and I are still best friends.)
Your verbiage there is also a very good example of how Dorothy could tell Joyce about her feelings without it in any way being an expectation that Joyce and Joe break up, which I guess has been escaping people who don’t want her to say anything.
But yeah, I have said similar things to straight female friends. They didn’t always take it well, but you know what? Sometimes you would, actually, rather ruin a friendship with someone rather than continue to live a lie.
I dunno man if I were dating Dorothy and I heard that she went and confessed she had feelings to someone else, I would be feeling pretty upset! Like everyone seems to be ignoring Walky here? He already has some issues with feeling like he’s “not enough” (especially wrt Dorothy) and that’d hurt him something fierce, especially since they only just got back together and it could feel like she only got with him to try and smother her feelings for Joyce. This has the potential of ruining both a friendship (with Joyce) and a relationship (with Walky).
Her feelings have been causing her confusion and pain because she hasn’t been acknowledging them. You can acknowledge your feelings for someone else without telling them about it. People do it all the time – people have feelings for others and don’t tell them and are fine.
I mean, I guess that depends on whether Dorothy thinks her feelings for Joyce are likely to go away anytime soon, and whether or not she feels something just as strong for Walky.
Because if they aren’t, or she doesn’t, then breaking up with Walky is probably the move to make whether she tells anybody anything.
It’s a thing she should probably talk to Walky about too. Preferably before talking to Joyce.
“Preferably before talking to Joyce”
I will +1 this if there’s any chance of Joyce reciprocating. I mean, the other way around would be a lot messier and more trash-goblin-approved, but in terms of “what Dorothy SHOULD do”, yes.
If there’s zero chance of Joyce reciprocating, the order stops being quite so important, but Walky should definitely hear about this, even if Dorothy doesn’t give him any details.
Like, I definitely wasn’t ignoring Walky in my analysis of any of this; I don’t actually think he and Dorothy are that invested in each other this time around, but he is another person who deserves to know if his girlfriend is in love with someone else.
And Joyce also deserves to know, especially if it would make her uncomfortable, before she comes to Dorothy with any more ideas like “helping me make a list of all the sex-type stuff I’m okay doing with Joe” or “it would really help my sexual comfort if I could watch you and Walky sleep together”.
Like. Dorothy and Joyce are already pretty codependent here and the boundaries they have with each other are very messy. It isn’t as if they’re acquaintances and Dorothy can just dial back how much time she spends with Joyce for a while to wait for her feelings to fade.
I have had a good convo like that, before, so I don’t think it’s inherently a bad idea.
Person A was dating person B and told me that she caught feelings with me, wasn’t looking to pursue it (I didn’t want to and they weren’t poly in that way), but it was important to her acknowledge it because she needed a bit of space to process it with pB and didn’t want to ghost me.
If Dorothy needs to step back from Joyce a bit to deal with it, or needs some other change in their friendship, then telling her why is possibly appropriate
I wonder if it’d go better if Joe mediated, actually. Like, “Hey Joyce, Dorothy had something to tell you, but wanted me to be present for it.” Or something.
At the very least, I hope Dorothy gets to a point where she can accept her bisexuality and come out to her friends. Whether or not that includes an admission of interest in Joyce specifically, I really want her to get to be herself fully.
Joe: “When the dorm is ashes, you have my permission to die.”
Dorothy: What?
Joe: “I am Bane — and I could kill you… but death would only end your agony — and silence your shame. Instead, I will simply… BREAK YOU!”
Dorothy: Why are you quoting Batman?
Joe: I feel like it’s how I should feel having done all that to you.
Joe puts a lot of value in the spank bank don’t hate.
Congratulations, DYW! You got me to hate Joe again
Phew, was gettin’ worried there, startin’ to worry I was losing my man-hating-lesbian cred!
Dorothy, I think you should murder him
And thus, clear the way for her own promotion with Joyce. I see, I see.
How is Imperial Majesty Georgiou doing today, if I might ask?
Hold on, I gotta watch 49 seasons across 12 series and 13 movies
I don’t get it. Those pics were meant for Joe, and Joyce was keen to hear he had gotten them. Remember? How is this in any way out of line? If anything, Joe should ask Dorothy to delete them if we’re being strict about boundaries and so forth.
The question is not whether we know they were meant for Joe, the question is whether Dotty knows they were meant for Joe. And I don’t mean assume, I mean know. As in actual word from actual Joyce that actually says those were meant for Joe.
I’m pretty sure Dorothy verbally stated her guess that the pics were for Joe before. Seeing how the pics were DEFINITELY not intended for HER. And Joyce told Joe she was sending him nudes he never received, so he’s confirming Dorothy’s guess.
Like the only other option here would be if Dorothy assumed the pics WERE meant for her, which would be… interesting. But I’m pretty sure when she talked to Amber, she was like “I think this is meant for Joe”.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/disappeared/
Found it.
Can’t you just accept that you were wrong about this and move on.
I mean, if we’re taking that angle then the real question is why Dorothy still has intimate photographs she knows damn well weren’t taken for her to see in her possession instead of having deleted them immediately.
Sorry, I should clarify, I thought Dorothy should murder Joe on panel 4. The punchline panel doesn’r even really play into it.
If a man makes a sapphic woman sad, or is at all in the way of her goals, then she should murder him. Is my thought.
Okay, that’s fair.
But that’s not sadness. That’s more of a quiet introspection kinda face.
And hopefully, it’s quiet introspection about the fact that now, if she wants to achieve her new goals in life, if she wants to achieve her own happiness, then the thing standing in her way is Joe. And therefore, he has to go….
Tesset, I have to assume you’re joking, but you do not come out looking good in these comments.
He knows how to prioritize!
Oh fuck no. Go away, Julia!
You still haven’t found Sal?
They’ll get there.
Dorothy: I shall be a PRESIDENT NO MORE!
*Dorothy throws her power suit in the trash*
*Amazi Girl retrieves it*
I’m not sure if this is good timing or bad timing on Joe’s part.
The bad timing argument’s pretty obvious.
But at the same time Dorothy just got something like three gut punches in a row, the most recent being “Joe, of all people, is actually better than me in this moment”. A joke that halfway undermines that might take the sting off of it.
That’s what I was thinking. That Joe “Hate Sink” Rosenthal lowered himself a little at least somewhat on purpose.
Everyone else is talking about Joe’s final line, so I’ll be the odd one out and instead compliment the frankly sublime facial expressions in panels 4 and 5.
There it is, finally Dorothy faces the truth
Granted it’s just 2 panels but we got there
I feel like, beyond being the intended recipient of pics it’s likely Joyce already deleted and all…..
See, Dorothy was this close to break down crying. And Joe’s been patient and shown her as much empathy as he’s able to express — After hearing over and over Dorothy hates him. So he interrupts the moment. Maybe not in the best way, but he prevents her from ending up crying in front of him: Those floodgates would cause enough shame to drown her. Being Known is such a mortifying ordeal.
I would rather have no punchline, or a cutaway to someone else doing a funny thing, than what we got today.
Cutaway to Mike’s grave with a lone butterfly resting on the marble middle finger that makes up the headstone.
see, that did make me smile.
I was thinking of characters that Dorothy could confide in about this whole liking Joyce business and Danny seems like the best answer. Danny has known Dorothy for longer than the rest of the cast and also has recently discovered his bisexuality.
HUH. This would be really cool!! I’d love them to interact healthily. Danny has really found himself, it’s likely he won’t give the smothering vibes Dorothy used to dislike, and he’s a really empathetic guy.
Dorothy needs friends to lean on and my boy is one of the most stable people in the cast.
‘Huh. So you’re willing to cling to someone to stay at a college and follow her rather then ‘your own dreams’, do I have that correct?’
Thisthisthisthisthisthis. Dorothy has BECOME the Danny.
“I can’t wait to see how Dorothy Dans this one up.”
A very rare sentence.
wow, you’re right! I’d enjoy this a lot. we’ll see what Dorothy does next…yeah, yeah, it’s called Dumbing of Age, not Smarting of Age, but I’m still hoping she does find someone to reach out to
Yeah, I was thinking that. Almost everyone else she’s friends with is either directly tied to Joyce or is Walky.
Huh. I actually can’t imagine Danny handling it well, tbh.
Yes, that would probably sting. First girlfriend and all.
What would sting about that?
I just mean that the breakup was much harder on Danny than it was on Dorothy, and it was kind of an important, formative relationship. There may still be stuff to unpack there.
Why? She’s not a lesbian, it doesn’t recolor their past relationship at all
Jesus Christ, Joe, she’s already dead.
Does she know about the hand job yet? I forget.
Probably just Sarah.
Joe also told Danny.
Joyce probably would have told Dorothy eventually, though, since it’s an important data point for her spreadsheet of ‘sexy things I can do with Joe’.
Starting to think people don’t understand how a daily sitcom comic works format wise.
I do. but in this case I feel like the gag is way too forced, it breaks the emotional direction in a bad way, and I don’t like it.
it’s there because the genre/structure *demands* it, not because it belongs or should be. like the single obligatory cuss to avoid being stuck with a G rating.
I disagree. I think Joe did this on purpose to cut the tension, and it was a kind and emotionally aware thing to do.
I don’t care. I don’t care what Joe’s motives were. Don’t care if the gag is forced by genre structure. Don’t care if you don’t care that I don’t care, because there is no reason that you should. What’s important is that it brings an important scene to a conclusion.
I think I got lost on what you mean with that.
We don’t care.
About what?
Is this where she accidentally sends him Billy’s pictures, and the comedy hijinx continue?
“Holy shit how does Joyce hide these?!?”
“And why are they a different color from the rest of her?”
Joe is a maestro of mammaries, a bravuro of boobs, a connoisseur of cleavage. He will know right off those aren’t Joyce’s. (debatably recognizing Jennifer immediately)
“Dorothy not beating the “into women” allegations.”
“Did you just MEME at me???”
Thanks, Joe, for the levity. INB4 Jennifer’s pic is sent along with them. Chaos ensues? Well, it’s possible.
The lack of levity appreciation is too damn low. Also I hadn’t thought of that but that’d be funny yeah.
You know what, Joe…………..that’s fair.
Indeed. XD Joyce did mean for him to have them.
I admit, after reading the strip I wasn’t expecting all the negative comments about Joe’s last line.
On reflection, though, I wonder if people would be less bothered if this were 20 years ago and the pictures in question were actual physical media.
The whole thing is way funnier if Joyce took the initial photo with a) a chunky polaroid or b) one of those disposable Fuji cameras and then she had to wait a week to get the film developed
Only to find out her mother has taken a job in the place she left it off to be developed.
“That’s right, mother, I do sex things now”
Camera zooms in as Joyce lowers her sunglasses
“With penisis!”
I’m sure it’s a typo, but spelling it “penisis” makes me think of a classic YouTube Poop edit where Joyce originally just said “penis” but you took the “is” and copied it so she’s making the exact same sound twice.
If that doesn’t make sense, don’t worry about it.
[Carol pulls a Joyce Face.]
We _did_ have polaroid back in those days, but it was a bit more expensive than developing film.
The foreshadowing of David not only having expressed being cool with polyamory but seeming to actively prefer it and suggests it…. Well, it could work out, you know?
Yeah, and Walky has indicated that he’d trade a blow job for a piza. With Walky there’s a fine line between nonchalantly cutting to the chase and Walky just being a smart ass.
But we can dream.
Look at it from Walky’s perspective. An open/poly relationship would let him be friends with Benefits with Amber without feeling like a POS about it, as long as he’s good about communicating it.
And maybe dip his toes in his own bisexual leanings, tbh. I’m super in favor of this going polyam.
I think they should both explore their sexualities while still dating. We need more casual poly arrangements
I agree!
I really want Walky with Amber but at this point it’ll only work as a polyamory so I’m all for it. To be honest I doubt he’d be too into poly though.
In my head, Walky would almost immediately go deer-in-the-headlights at the idea of having to navigate the Power of the L-Word with more than one person, yeah.
Which… might still be fun to see, mind you.
But I could also easily seeing Walky and Dorothy breaking up over this, even if Joyce doesn’t reciprocate, and that would leave Walky free for Amber, who is also, coincidentally, free right now.
I also think Walky would benefit from some time spent single, but like, DoA time dilution, man.
Arms up because I was exactly right about Joes position being one of sympathy because he ALSO really denied having romantic feelings about joyce!! Because he didn’t want a genuine romantic connection with ANYONE!! *And because of his issues*.
He just. Literally knows how she feels. god damn i love this fucking webcomic.
hi5 for “Joe isn’t being sympathetic here, he’s being empathetic”
Like yes, he’s being both a good friend and a good guy, but it was extremely easy for him to put himself almost completely in her shoes. Joe was in about as much denial over his feelings for Joyce as it is possible for a heterosexual boy to be over feelings for a girl.
Exactly!! This is like. The one situation he’s run into where he does genuinely understand. Dude went through a whole ‘ah hell I do have this kind of feeling and its for This Specific Person I already have a different relationship I value’ arc.
I like how so many people are up in arms against Joe for requesting pictures he knows were meant for him, but nobody is mad at Dorothy for keeping titpics that she knows were NOT.
Sardonic Sarah avatar is perfect for this.
Also, I agree.
Dorothy was sending lewd photos to his girlfriend, when confronted talked about how she should be better than him, and Joe has responded with understanding and empathy. He’s history’s greatest monster.
Truly the archenemy rivalry of Dorothy and Becky has been broken.
Joe is her Green Goblin.
Was going to type a response but found that someone had already said what I wanted to say.
It’s honestly baffling to me, for a myriad of reasons, why people are upset at Joe.
I was also gonna make a comment like this because Dorothy keeping them is more weird than Joe requesting them.
And, for all we know, is still hanging onto them even after shooting a copy to Joe.
(x) Doubt
Not after this conversation. I think Dorothy’s more likely to overcompensate (again, some more) and not only delete these photos but also EVERY photo Joyce has ever sent her, even the ones that were on purpose.
Fair, but until I see it on-screen I’m assuming she’s keeping them.
Yeah like. Those were, legitimately, supposed to be sent to him anyways? Why would that be bad.
Aww, well done Joe. The end makes it feel so genuine too.
Joe’s got good emotional senses. He just was too afraid to use it for so long.
So…did Joyce see the pics?
I guess we only know she saw Jennifer’s downshirt pic sent from Dorothy’s phone, and was confused about it.
Also that she immediately recognized it was Jennifer.
She could tell because she could be warm and safe in there forever.
Goddamnit Joe.
I mean, I can’t be mad at him. He’s 100% right to reclaim what’s rightfully his and it might be healthier for Dorothy to not fully break down and this is as distracting as it gets.
I didn’t expect Joe to be such a good choice to talk with Dorothy about this, but he’s doing pretty well so far. He’s grown a lot as a person since the start of DoA.
Now would be the perfect time for Joyce to send Dorothy a reply. Or even just another lewd pic meant for Joe.
Joe, inarguably, is best boy, as of this strip.
I really want to argue that it’s Danny, but I don’t wanna come up with reasons why, so I’ll concede it may be Joe.
Definitely can’t be Walky, Jacob, Ethan, Asher… other dude I swear this comic has but can’t recall right now, or Dead Mike.
Danny is too much of a woobie to be best boy.
I feel like Danny as best boy COULD have happened, but the story just… really hasn’t been about his sector of the universe for the most part? He hasn’t gotten nearly as much character growth as Joe even though he totally has a lot of room for it and a lot of factors that could lead to it. I think it’s possible for Danny to become best boy. It’s just right now? In this potential moment. Nah, def Joe all the way.
And it’s a crime. I demand more Danny x sal content
I don’t see how being a woobie make someone not a best boy, if anything it upped his chances.
It’s not mutually exclusive but I think woobie tends to GENERALLY overide my personal perception of the dominant trope of a characters archetype. Woobies generally tend to get beat up or have unfortunate things happen to them in a way that tends to GENERALLY (not always) deny their agency to make progress. So yeah, I don’t disagree that it could ‘up chances’, but pulling off both requires good writing and a type of effort from the character we haven’t seen from Danny specifically.
Okay I think the issue is you might have an overly narrow perspective of what “best boy” is.
So. That was odd, cos I’ve never heard the word woobie before, but defined it instantly by Danny. Then looked it up…
Yeah, Danny and Joe are in my top 2 for good guys here.
For me, Danny will forever be graded on a curve of telling Ethan it’s “good” his dying friend is in the hospital in critical condition. Like…holy shit. I don’t care that Mike was a huge dick, absolutely uncalled for.
Yeaaah. I like Danny a lot, but I think that is an absolutely fair permanent -20 debuff to his Good Boy-itude. I’ve hated a lot of people, but I’d never speak a word of it to the people around them on their potential deathbed. My perception is often very flawed, and the pain other people feel is real regardless of if I understand it or not.
Neither have I, but then I’ve also never been there when a friend’s abuser was on their deathbed.
Totally forgot about this moment. Thanks for the reminder. Joe Joe’s bizzare adventures continues unargued with.
I believe that Jacob is best boy qualifier and I die on that hill.
When he get’s anywhere near the screen time and personal development Joe has gotten, I’m sure Jacob could easily wrestle best boy title.
Panels 2 and 3: Dang, Joe, you’ve got empathy (soon to be illegal in parts of our world). Good man!
Panel 6: Oh, yeah, you’re still Joe.
Poor Joyce. Every best friend she has is/was in love with her.
dangit, no matter how often I try to change my gravatar, it always goes back to that one.
eyyyy, there we go. That’s the one I want!
Hear that Sarah???? It’s your turn!!! make my high school dreams of sarah/joyce come true!!! I’ve waited ten years for it
I hope all the “wow Joe is such an asshole for this” people are enjoying the egg on their face.
Poor Dorothy. I can relate to that look she has in panel 5 so much. She needs a hug.
damn, I remember when I used to enjoy reading the comments section but for some reason the auto hate Joe section is just all here recently. people acting like he’s being some kind of evil malicious villain here, frankly to me it sounds like he’s treating Dotty like one of the guys. ~<3
You enjoyed reading the comments?
I do actually, there is a sense of community when you read/interact with people in these comments sections. and Liara up near the top saying “there’s the Joe we know and loathe again” sound like hate to me, and if you read the thread following it, it’s a lot of people just being super negative, much like recent interactions where people were claiming that Dorothy was abusing a position of power to manipulate Joyce and that their interactions weren’t ok. just been a lot of arguments lately and we frankly don’t need that right now, us nerds need to band together so when all the old people die we can take over the world. ~<3
A few people are saying it’s a dick move to close this interaction on a joke, you’re exaggerating it into hate by yourself.
It always amazes me how differently people read the comments. There’s definitely been a little Joe hate recently. There always is for any character when they’re in any kind of conflict with another.
My impression is there’s been a lot more people outraged at Dorothy for not immediately accepting his change (or in some cases for thinking he had any problems he needed to change at all).
But I think we all (including me) have a tendency to react more to those comments we disagree with and see those opinions as more prevalent than they are.
People are often out on the internet looking for something to react to.
really funny dupdate today.
This just popped into my head,
and now you all have to suffer with me:
https://images2.imgbox.com/46/63/PPUHFKMl_o.png
Also, if anyone has a larger pic of the Danny x Sal Slipshine pic, I and my amateur photoshop skills would like to do the funniest thing ever:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/04-but-dont-give-yourself-away/searching-2/
Called it?? Is that what the kids say.
— Still don’t think Joe is being, or trying to be, a jerk. I don’t think he’s said anything with the intent to “twist the knife” at any point.
— But I also don’t think Dorothy has actually been trying to turn this around on Joe at any point. I don’t think her “wait, are you snooping through her phone?!” was even a deliberate deflection, much less an attack. imho, any blows she’s actually landed here have been less a targeted assault on Joe and more of an explosion that is happening with him in range.
— “Wait, Dorothy still has the photos? That’s gross.”
I mean, from a certain point of view, sure, but I don’t think she’s been looking at them. I would be surprised if she’s even opened that text conversation with Joyce since she finally bit the bullet and re-sent her own photo.
Like. She went to Amber for help not only deleting the photos from that conversation but scrubbing them from the Internet, and then she got critically distracted by the idea that sending a suggestive photo of herself in kind was the “platonic, chill, Straight Girl” thing to do, and then the photo didn’t go through, and then she spent a couple of hours kind of agonizing over whether to re-send it, and then she was hit by a flood of regret, and… when we next saw her, she had her nose buried in her textbook and was trying not to think about any of this.
Since then, Joe has (gently but firmly) forced her to confront the possibility that she might have feelings for Joyce, which sure seems to have been a genuine shock to her system.
At what point in this sequence of events are we imagining Dorothy scrolled back up to gaze lasciviously at Joyce’s blurry mis-sent photos?
I genuinely think that if she had been able to bring herself to open that text thread again, she would have already deleted them.
Willis is of course free to prove me wrong.
>At what point in this sequence of events are we imagining Dorothy scrolled back up to gaze lasciviously at Joyce’s blurry mis-sent photos?
In our hopes and dreams, of course.
Look, it would definitely be a fine jumping off point for fanfic.
But I definitely think it would require a version of Dorothy who was, first of all, WAY less oblivious to her interest in Joyce.
Oh, and also:
— Yes, Dorothy should absolutely tell Joyce.
If Dorothy were a straight man, or if Dorothy was an out and proud bi gal, I might be more sympathetic to the notion that confessing her feelings to Joyce would just make things weird for Joyce with no upside.
And sure, Dorothy COULD just come out to Joyce without mentioning her feelings. I bet Joyce definitely wouldn’t immediately ask how Dorothy knows and whether she has feelings for any girls. I bet Joyce wouldn’t immediately, herself, tease Dorothy about the laundry room incident. I bet Joyce would have no questions at all for her best friend, who she’s been (lovingly!!!) hounding for the last week or so to reveal her Dorothy Secrets. Yeah, that conversation would go super smoothly.
And if Dorothy then wanted space to deal with her own heartbreak in private, I bet Joyce wouldn’t be at all confused or hurt or worried…
Yeah! Dorothy should definitely continue to keep this part a secret.
(For folks who read the laundry room incident uncharitably, it frankly seems even more important that Dorothy admit to her feelings here.) (But I cannot foresee any version of events where Dorothy keeping this to herself was better for anyone involved.)
I mean, I’m kind of talking myself into Dorothy doing all of those things, because this isn’t Smarting of Age and the drama potential is enormous, but in terms of what she should do……….
I’m not particularly pro ‘Dorothy telling Joyce’ before she’s done a lot of self reflection and therapy. Her friendship with Joyce is one of the few anchors she’s got in life. People don’t make the best anchors but it is in fact what she has right now.
BUUUUUUUT wow you are convincing the gremlin in me that’d be hilarious behavior from Joyce soooooo. YEAAAAAH LETS DO IT lmao.
Amazi-Girl avatar is perfect for advocating mess.
Like, I’ll reiterate that I currently think Joyce’s reaction is not going to be “oh, Dorothy, I love you too, and I have two hands so we can all make this work” (though I would certainly like to be proven wrong), but yep, when I imagine Dorothy trying to tell Joyce she’s bi without giving away why she knows, there are so many fun ways Joyce could react.
For example, Joyce-in-my-head is turning to Sarah and saying, “Okay, so it turns out that story I told you was half as gay as it sounded.”
The snooping through her phone bit, I thinks it’s established that she has trusted friends and companions screen her phone for contacts from certain parties. So it may simply be that Joe was doing that today and saw the text preview or soemthing
Oh, we know that’s more or less the case. He was holding Joyce’s phone when the photo finally went through and he’s confirmed in this conversation that he saw the text preview.
We saw what happened, the text came through when he was holding her phone holding music. So, no snooping confirmed yeah
Take a shot every time somebody says “poly”.
Every liver reading this shudders the thought
Prediction: This is what breaks up Joyce and Joe. Joyce will be like “Joe, I’m finally ready, take me now” and Joe will be like “I can’t, it would feel like a betrayal of someone I’ve recently developed a deep sense of kinship with” and Joyce will be all “Huh?” and Joe will be “Go to her now. Leave me and go to her.” and Joyce will be “Who? Becky? You must be talking about Becky, right?” and then Joyce will go and have a threesome with Becky and Dina and then when Joe finds out he’ll be so distraught about missing out on it that Danny has to comfort him and then it’ll basically all be over
That’s the most plausible turn of events, yes.
Look, if you don’t go long, you can’t win big.
Gonna burnish my reputation as “that guy whose odd interpretations are always wrong.”
I think Dorothy is running on assumptions about what she feels, having spent no time yet to analyze her feelings. The multitude shouting “bi! bi! bi!” could very well be right, but…it’s still not impossible that Dorothy wants to be, not Joyce’s lover, but her mother. The mother she should have had? The parent who can’t let go, as her “child” is growing up and branching out? The mama bear protecting her cub from
Joedanger?Before laughing this off, consider that Dorothy has spent years preparing for the job of mothering an entire nation.
A new perspective that goes beyond what many demand…great
I mean, if you want that, you can read My Girlfriend’s Not Here Today and edit in Dorothy’s head.
An interesting read to get off of a strip implying attraction between two women. Have you by chance read Freud?
I am considered it and now I will laught it off. Ha ha ha.
I think it’s a lot easier for a closeted sapphic person to think they’re feeling something platonic when it’s actually sexual than it is for them to think they’re feeling something sexual when it’s actually maternal. I think if Dorothy wanted to be Joyce’s mom, the idea of being attracted to her would have been repulsive.
So. No. I doubt it.