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Countdown to Countdown
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Iris Black is a self-proclaimed inventor with the curious ability to bring his drawings to life, and yearns to find a space where he can use his powers freely.
2 Slices
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Paint the Town Red
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Cyanide & Happiness
Explosm
Satire, dark humor and surreal humor.
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Namesake
Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
Beeserker
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This comic is about a robot powered by bees, but it's also about the kind of people who think filling a robot with bees is a good idea, and why they're wrong.
Blindsprings
Kadi Fedoruk
Tamaura, wrested into a world 300 years in the future, must find a way to save the magic fading from her country.
The Otherknown
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Chandra is a 12-year-old accidental time traveler with a reluctant new dad, who happens to be a member of a feared galactic crime syndicate.
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My 15-year-old son just got a ukulele for Christmas and has been putzing around on it and teaching himself by watching YouTube videos. I’m particularly fond of this one: https://youtu.be/Y3G489zDHKQ
Yeah, that was what bowled me over when I heard it. I worship Trent Reznor, and Johnny Cash, but … yeah, it’s Reznor’s baby, but Cash made the song beautiful.
On similar lines, All Along The Watchtower was originally a Bob Dylan song but he considers Hendrix’s version to be the definitive version and to this day considers his own performances to be tributes to Hendrix
Well, yeah. Remember one critic writing after a concert “Bob Dylan remains what has to be the worst interpreter of Bob Dylan songs”. Still have to write them in the first place.
Have to reluctantly agree here. I adore Cash, and his version is an amazing demonstration of how much you can do with so little.
But ultimately I like the complexity, grit, and “brokenness” of the original better.
It’s the song that made me use Youtube non-stop. Before that, I was there to watch the newest updates from my very small list of regular LP’ers and the occasional song pointed out by a commenter. But when I discovered “Hurt”, I just couldn’t stop listening, for days…
It’s weird because, every time I read this, I hear the song in both cash’s voice and a voice that I like to think is sal’s? And it somehow works really well? That’s part of why I like this so much.
Speaking as an Amazon warehouse worker, my usual quip in response to adult funtime product orders is usually more along the lines of “well, someone’s having a party!”
TBT the time I had to look up an item because the scanner was asking for a “stainless steel anal master (something something)” and the item itself was just some metal thing in bubble wrap with an x label and no description and I genuinely thought it might be a paper towel rack. Nope, it was the thing, and boy were the reviews for that sucker amazing.
Honestly, Amazon fulfillment centers are an EDUCATION.
Well, now I had to look that up on Amazon — and you’re right, I can see why you might have thought it was a paper towel rack. It looks like interior design, not a sex toy.
The girl who desperately wants people to be real being won over by the disarmingly sincere boy playing his goofy ukulele, risking a massive hit to her protective “cool, aloof” reputation if anyone happened to see this? Hmm, I can’t think of why…
“had” to. Her grades, the last time they were mentioned, were significantly better even if they were lower than the perfect score she expected for what she did to the TA.
I’m glad to see Sal opening up to Danny. Seems like something she really needed to do. Marcy can’t be her only close friend when she’s uhh, been kind of bad about that for a while now.
Also, Marcie came here for Sal, to BE with Sal. But, while Sal feels for Marcie, she doesn’t feel THAT way about her. There’s levels of rejection going on here, between them.
I don’t know if Marcie feels romantically for Sal either (but that’s what fan fiction is for) but she did indeed move here to stay close to her and she’s currently living like a sardine for it. No wonder she was really really mad.
A rather touching moment, and also don’t think I haven’t noticed that Sal has stripped off a layer here before engaging in emotional signing with a currently single Danny, Willis I see you scheming *eyes suspiciously*
The dorkiness of the instrument would undercut the mood if it were anyone else. Since it’s Danny, you just know he’s unaware of how dorky it sounds, but he’s so damn sincere it wouldn’t matter. Sal certainly doesn’t seem to mind
It’s probably really good for Sal to be doing this. Hope she doesn’t end up falling for Danny though, that’d be kind of unfortunate all things considered. He’s a bit of a hot mess, and the Amber and the Ethan situations complicate matters.
Danny could probably stand to be single a while longer and figure himself out more before dating again, but he’s not really a mess like he once was. She could do a lot worse
FWIW, whilst I do ship Danny and Sal, they’re one of those healthy relationships that, if they become romantic, will only do so after the the necessary long time of friendship and emotional intimacy have passed. It won’t be sudden, it would be just the logical next step for them both.
I completely agree, it really does. It would also feel appropriate for a penultimate storyline strip. But I suspect we’ll see more of Billie and Ruth first (although I wouldn’t be too surprised if he leaves it to our imagination and has how it went talked about either).
I can’t decide if I fully ship them, because if I did I would want it to be like a real slow burn romance, at a rate that would not fit with the nature of this comic.
I think I’m at, “I really like this friendship and want to see it develop more, also I want to brush Sal’s hair.”
Okay, so I grabbed my ukulele just to see if I could play it at speed for full singing speed (based off of the Johnny Cash version). I could not. Sal might be singing really slow or I suck at playing, but it’s suppose to be one strum of each.
Johnny Cash on a ukelele is an interesting thought but gosh I love these two and this friendship so much and I’ve been trying not to comment on every strip in this sequence with “I love Sal and Danny” but I can’t refrain any longer.
I like the somewhat concerned look Danny gives her after the first lyric. I know that’s probably supposed to be shock and it probably is, but if I just heard that one line I’d probably be looking at her a little concerned too.
I love the gradual change in Sal’s posture, from leaning forward, head down, hands between knees, singing softly, to leaning back, chin up, hands outside knees, singing loudly. This is great acting.
There’s no living with a killing. There’s no going back from it. Right or wrong, it’s a brand, a brand that sticks. There’s no going back. Now, you run on home to your mother and tell her, tell her everything’s alright, and there aren’t any more guns in the valley.
General question: What do you think makes some comment sections (webcomics comments, not getting into the rest of the internet right now) more pleasant than others?
I generally enjoy this comment section; I’ve been mostly lurking in the discussion section of another webcomic though–one which may very well have decent overlap in readership–and I find it much more often unpleasant. It’s an interesting contrast.
I wouldn’t say “heavy” moderation so much as I would say enlightened moderation. By and large, individuals have to really prove they are walking violations of Wheaton’s Law before they are outright banned.
And I think that actually involves way more “emotional labor” on Willis’s part than just plain heavy moderation. (The fact that the concept of emotional labor still needs to be in scare quotes is an issue beyond the scope of this question, but still relevant to it.)
Also, remember how OLD this comment section is – much of it transplanted whole from the Shortpacked! comment section, and many of them from even before that. There’s a community here, that developed over long years. They support each other, and defend against attackers, and are emotionally and culturally pretty mature.
Heavy moderation to weed out the bigotry, and commenters who want to have insight and discuss it (rather than just ‘thanks for updating’ and comments like ‘it’s just a comic don’t think about it so deeply’)
yeah, iirc there were several waves of commenters going from “aargh you are so wrong” to “ohhh, I thought you meant *this* not *that*” and such, and it took effort on both sides to get past the kneejerk feelings and actually try to understand one another but the more it happened the more the positive feedback loop built up.
and there was the awesomeness of Cerberus’ Comic Reactions too.
I think there’s a critical mass of commenters who:
– actually want to read and learn from each other, hooray
– are socially anxious, and/or are very accommodating towards anxiety.
– like overthinking (both doing so, and being around it)
– also lots of us are just very nice
– moreover there has been strong moderation, since before DoA even began, like for years and years.
These traits can be kryptonite to that thoughtless cruelty that plagues the Internet. So we get this neat little space where people are often very honest/vulnerable and where people aren’t jerks about it. (Also we like puns, but that’s probably separate.)
Willis and the readers appreciate this atmosphere and perpetuate it. Thoughtful posts get socially encouraged and rewarded. Readers rally against mean posts unless/until the comment gets deleted (which is typically very quick indeed). Sometimes Willis himself comments, and he has the most power, so that settles it. (Even when Willis hasn’t personally commented in a long time, we know he reads the comments, and we know his values, so that helps, too.)
There’s surely more but I think that’s the most important stuff.
I wonder if the lack of notifications of comment replies – although that’s something that I wish was present – might help as well.
You have to be dedicated to the comments section to keep a discussion going (checking back for replies manually, and the like), rather than a hit and run single comment every now and then. So, this filters out less dedicated people, and someone who’s dedicated will culturally immerse in how the comments section works?
well, there is an rss feed – but even that isn’t the most convenient sort of notification (plus it’s very flaky at times)
I think it also helps that there’s a new comic every day, so replying to something on an older comic feels impolite somehow… and people who don’t care about impolite are likely to get moderated away sooner or later.
I just wish my good commenting habits here would transfer to other places a little better. most places are ok, but at Captain Awkward (where you’d think things would be similar to here) I feel like my comments are mediocre at best and often I’m kicking myself after hitting submit… it’s like another alter is running things when I’m there, and like, wtf? whyyyy?
All of this, plus what Leorale detailed below (above?) — the self-selection of readers/commenters plus good moderation leads to a positive feedback loop rather than a negative one. I don’t think “heavy moderation” is quite the right descriptor, as to me that implies draconian control. Rather, very little is actually off-limits for discussion, as long as you aren’t being hateful.
It also helps that new commenters are automatically sent to the moderation queue and are never seen publicly if Willis doesn’t approve them. Besides eliminating the outright trash, it also reveals the true colors of those who would first make an “acceptable, but possibly unpopular” comment, and then when not seeing their missive after 10 minutes, follow it up with something like “WHY ARE YOU CENSORING ME YOU CUCK!!!!”
More than once I’ve seen Willis post a screenshot like that on Twitter, saying “I was going to approve you this morning, but never mind!” That too — Willis freely mocks the trolls on Twitter (but they are mostly not discussed in-band in these comments, which I think is an important distinction).
The jerks figured out pretty quickly their opinions aren’t wanted. There still seems to be some rudeness every once and a while, but that’s not nearly as bad as other places.
I gravitate toward that, but also kind of feel weird about it. Like, there are overall gender stereotype concerns with that, and then there’s, like, a more personal level…I’m NB and get read as a girl a lot, and when I’m trying to push back on that, it feels weird to be referring to myself as a girl. I was mostly asking for myself, for what I could call it when I didn’t want to use “girl” or “boy” in describing my actions, and with that it makes sense to me that other people might feel that way too.
See, with “Fanning” my first instinct is to go “Elle or Dakota?” because I guess I’m just terrible like that. After that it makes me think of actually waving a fan. I think in context where the meaning is clear it could work, though to me it doesn’t quite carry the same connotations.
Fanenbying? (Although that’s not gender-neutral, that’s specific to a category of genders, and doesn’t include fangirls and fanboys. It’s more an alternative, not a replacement.)
Oh, these two have one of the my favorite dynamics going on. Both of them just get to be so true to who they actually are with the other, and I dig it whether it stays friendship or builds from there.
Also, I’m new to the party here, and I basically just read this entire comic series from the beginning through today’s in less than 72 hours, and I don’t think I’ve gone on such an emotional roller coaster ride in my entire life.)
That is quite the emotional roller coaster. Also, welcome to the comment section. Feel free to comment anything from deep analysis to simple reactions. All are welcomed.
Both those labels match Sal pretty well; Danny, less so. I think that Amber Girl and Amazi-Girl both dumping him pretty much broke anything that Dorothy left intact and he’s well into the ‘rebuild’ stage.
Oddly enough, as much as she fears Sal, I think that there is a self-loathing part of Amber that will see this view a ‘Danny is better off with anyone except me’ lens. This fact is tragic.
I don’t think it is possible to understate how significant it is that Sal is doing this. She earlier told Danny that she’d given up singing (implying that this was because of Marcie’s accident) and yet here she goes. Is it just that this is one of those days where she needs to sing? Or does this signify that her and Marcie’s arguably very unhealthy co-dependent relationship is finally unravelling?
BTW, I don’t think that Danny looks smug in panels 5 & 6. I just think that he’s happy that Sal is loosening her usually iron self-control for a bit; that’s letting her heart and soul out and is stopping punishing herself for the world, just for a little while.
Having listened to ‘Hurt’, it is pretty much Sal’s theme tune, isn’t it?
Semi-seriously, back when Mike first started this scheme, I predicted one possible outcome is that he would genuinely fall for Ethan. It was unlikely then and remains unlikely now but stranger things have happened in a fictional world!
Possibly the best outcome, though I don’t expect it at all.
He’d have to realize it after the scheme played out and Ethan had driven him away in disgust.
That was what I wanted from back then! I don’t think it’s likely either, but I really would love to see it- and see the ball put into Ethan’s court (so to speak) by having HIM walk away first and things developing from there.
it was definitely meant to come across in an exaggerated, “how dare you” sorta feigned anger tone. I don’t actually think people are assholes for having a different ship than me, although i get tone doesn’t always come across well in text.
I got it. It’s the sort of thing I might say, although my own concerns at being misunderstood sometimes make me take it to ludicrous extremes. (“There should be a law against disagreeing with me!” Etc)
Oh yeah, I am more meaning that in my head Danny plays Steven Universe stuff a lot – not that literally every song he plays is Steven Universe. In this case I am relatively certain he is playing Hurt, even though I can’t read the musical notation, because otherwise Sal singing along wouldnt make sense.
I still believe he spends much time playing Steven Universe.
I love these two so much. I’m trying to only friend-ship it, because Ethan. I once misunderstood a character’s words just because what I thought was said meant there was more Ethan/Danny happening in that storyline than there really was, and I wanted to believe.
But Ethan/Mike and Danny/Sal are showing me that I was more fickle than I knew.
I don’t ship this! Except for friendshipping! Being friends is very good and they shouldn’t go beyond that. They’re not going to anyway. Because they only like each other as friends! I needed to say this to go against the tide of numerous romance-shipping comments! That’s all.
I mean honestly, I’m not even seeing any hint of romance between them. Maybe because I just don’t want to? But also because there is NONE, haha. Personally I don’t think Willis would go that route anyway (and also I don’t want him to but I’m sure that’s already clear).
I definitely friend-ship this. That said, some good ingredients for romance are being intensely open with and supportive of each other, trying new things with each other, and growing with each other. (Of course, that’s good ingredients for friendship as well.)
Willis has said he doesn’t want to revisit established romances between old characters from the Walkyverse, except those that didn’t get a lot of exploration previously. That said, this version of Danny and Sal are very, very different from the Walkyverse versions, and I could see him wanting to explore the very different romance they would have.
I think it would work out…. pretty dang well, actually. There romance would be the sort where they can drop all the pretenses and be open with each other about insecurities, challenges, etc, all in intensely private and intimate moments, when they couldn’t do that with anyone else. Mutual shelter in a world otherwise devoid of it. Soulmates no one else understood. But I’m quite happy with it just being a friendship as well, and most of those same ingredients would work for a strong friendship too.
But seriously, this is incredibly heartwarming. It’s wonderful to see them sharing this kind of quiet companionship, and that they can be so comfortable and open with each other (even Sal). Their developing relationship just seems very healthy and good for both of them, especially now with all that’s been happening in their lives.
I wouldn’t say though that I want them to end up together as a couple, rather I (friend)ship them. Not that they wouldn’t make a cute couple, but I just love to see close friendships depicted in stories without having to necessarily involve romantic feelings (especially between man/woman, there just isn’t many of those stories or even if they start that way, they eventually develop into a romance). Besides, I ship Ethan/Danny
I think a friendship would be good for both of them now, and if romance comes along after a while it might be good too, but thats down to willis and i think they both need a friendship right now that doesnt involve and deeper meaning than that.
Sal and Danny bonding here is just great! But that song. The Johnny Cash version really pulls the heart strings and the video for the song brought tears to my eyes when I saw it.
I like the friendship these two are developing. It’s good for Sal to get more real friends. One does hope for a budding romance but really a good friendship is better for her.
Danny will always be just shy of the mark. The trick is to set the mark sky high rather than just in front of him and admire failure at levels others would only dream of.
Is the “I hurt myself today” supposed to be both the song and also a literal statement from Sal? Because… that would explain the permanent wearing of motorcycle gloves. And would make an awful lot of sense with her self-loathing.
That said, I wouldn’t be too shocked if this were something she’d struggled with before. Danny, at least, seems to be wondering if its a lyric or something literal in panel three before she adds on to it, then he seems to relax.
The truth is Sal needs another good friend a hell of a lot more than a boyfriend. She is already very confident in her physical appearance, and doesn’t seem to place a lot of emotional value on sex. Making another friend is actually a much bigger breakthrough for her.
I don’t either, for a few reasons. One, Willis seems to be trying to avoid all ships from the original canon, and Danny and Sal were one of the first couples ever introduced (if not the first, I don’t remember). Yeah, they broke up in the walkyverse, but it still stands.
Two, they have a good dynamic as it is, and I think a relationship would change that for the worse.
But all that aside, I love this page.
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oh
I’m just realizing you can find almost any song covered by a girl on a ukulele
On a tangentially related note, you’d be surprised how many songs have been covered on the kazoo.
….on one hand, wow, on the other, I’m not sure I wanted to know that.
…
I never thought I’d have another occasion to link this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg5KjnAhuU
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That… that is a thing that exists.
I was good until he started singing.
Also done by a real band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chsbfbZX-P0
This is my new favorite song.
Here’s one of my faves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMyqQWcAuKM
I think you’d be more surprised by how many songs have been covered on otamatone.
actually not surprised by that at all
Youtube has kazoo up the wazoo.
I have listened to ‘The Death March’ from Saul covered on kazoo. I regarded it as training to make me immune to The Scarecrow’s Fear Gas.
A couple more revelations like that and you wil be ready to enter the wonderful and terrifying world of otamatone covers.
Even by professionals!
I’ve seen a video of a guy playing Darude’s Sandstorm on a potato. Yes. I said POTATO. After that, I’m not surprised by anything.
My 15-year-old son just got a ukulele for Christmas and has been putzing around on it and teaching himself by watching YouTube videos. I’m particularly fond of this one:
https://youtu.be/Y3G489zDHKQ
I’m a girl and I can play this song on ukulele!
Isn’t that Internet Rule 37? “Any song you can name has been recorded by a girl with a ukelele and posted to YouTube.”
You can play Hurt using the island strum. It doesn’t sound very genuine.
She’s actually covering a ukulele version that was done by The Blanks, AKA The Worthless Peons from Scrubs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K0EAc3abq8
Orla Gartland is excellent! Youtuber turned into full-on musician. My dad went to one of her concerts.
I dig this gal doing it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uN5N48UG8o
It’s not well tuned tho.
But she used her tuning app.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69cTHgM-ZlQ
tempted to add myself to the list (though with the comic as visuals) but I actually still kinda fear the sound of my own voice =p
also I’d have to learn to play (I learned a real instrument… which was subsequently lifted by an ex)
Somehow I just watched a 42 minute tutorial for how to play SOAD’s “Toxicity” on two ukuleles. In Portuguese. I don’t speak Portuguese.
That’s appropriate, though. Ukuleles were introduced to Hawai’i by the Portuguese.
Best Johnny Cash song.
… No, I don’t care that Reznor wrote it.
Neither does Trent, he basically says it’s Cash’s song now.
Yeah, that was what bowled me over when I heard it. I worship Trent Reznor, and Johnny Cash, but … yeah, it’s Reznor’s baby, but Cash made the song beautiful.
On similar lines, All Along The Watchtower was originally a Bob Dylan song but he considers Hendrix’s version to be the definitive version and to this day considers his own performances to be tributes to Hendrix
Well, yeah. Remember one critic writing after a concert “Bob Dylan remains what has to be the worst interpreter of Bob Dylan songs”. Still have to write them in the first place.
It’s OK. Reznor said that Cash did it better.
Reznor is wrong. The Cash version was good (though I’m still annoyed about him changing shit to thorns) but the NiN version is still definitive.
You can’t even understand the NiN version. Sounds like cats fighting in a bag. The Cash version is beautiful though.
Have to reluctantly agree here. I adore Cash, and his version is an amazing demonstration of how much you can do with so little.
But ultimately I like the complexity, grit, and “brokenness” of the original better.
When Johnny Cash sings it, it’s convincing. NiN notsomuch.
Johnny Cash’s cover is the best.
Kermit the Frog’s cover is pretty great too
Too green.
ha ha
found it on Youtube, was gonna link but Daniel the Human stopped me, said it was far from kiddy safe, all that drug use going on…
Johnny Cash was emo?
Y’see, Reznor’s version was about angst. Cash’s version was about PAIN.
That is the best description I have ever heard.
It’s not Emo if you actually lived it.
Absolutely the best Cash song. So fitting that it came out just before his and Miss June’s deaths. I can’t watch the video without crying.
It’s the song that made me use Youtube non-stop. Before that, I was there to watch the newest updates from my very small list of regular LP’ers and the occasional song pointed out by a commenter. But when I discovered “Hurt”, I just couldn’t stop listening, for days…
*damn* does that pull on my heartstrings.
Darn those Indiana ukulele metal fusion cover band duos, and the way they pull on all our heartstrings.
This was the comment that led to me looking up the original song. It feels tragically fitting for Sal.
It’s weird because, every time I read this, I hear the song in both cash’s voice and a voice that I like to think is sal’s? And it somehow works really well? That’s part of why I like this so much.
Gorram it you guys
Zarquon on a cracker, that’s smegging shazbot! I’ll be mogadored like a frelling bastich! What the smurf!
Hitchhikers’, Red Dwarf, Mork & Mindy, Nanny Ogg, Farscape, Judge Dredd and the Smurfs in one post. Good work Doctor.
I would read that fanfic.
I think Ten meeting the Smurfs would be best. Especially if he couldn’t figure out the language.
WHY AM I SHIPPING THIS?!
I’m shipping them now too.
Shipping them against my better judgment . . . .
Because they keep having surprisingly healthy conversations, which for the most part neither of them manages with anyone else.
^^ This.
Not that having a healthy conversation means that they should necessarily be in a romantic relationship. It’s just… healthy.
said the Amazon warehouse worker holding 12 tubes of KY jelly and a giant gummy worm.
Speaking as an Amazon warehouse worker, my usual quip in response to adult funtime product orders is usually more along the lines of “well, someone’s having a party!”
TBT the time I had to look up an item because the scanner was asking for a “stainless steel anal master (something something)” and the item itself was just some metal thing in bubble wrap with an x label and no description and I genuinely thought it might be a paper towel rack. Nope, it was the thing, and boy were the reviews for that sucker amazing.
Honestly, Amazon fulfillment centers are an EDUCATION.
Well, now I had to look that up on Amazon — and you’re right, I can see why you might have thought it was a paper towel rack. It looks like interior design, not a sex toy.
Heh… “interior design”.
I bought a paper towel rack from Amazon. Well, now i am not so sure. We use it as one but I now wanna check my orders!
I wanted to read the reviews, and now my history is filled with random sex toys and I don’t think I found it!
That was actually a laugh out loud. My boss sits right behind me. Thank you for my future unemployment.
Oh oh, looks like Brain let Pinky use the internet again.
The girl who desperately wants people to be real being won over by the disarmingly sincere boy playing his goofy ukulele, risking a massive hit to her protective “cool, aloof” reputation if anyone happened to see this? Hmm, I can’t think of why…
Oh god I just realized these two are basically Cyclonus and Tailgate. They are even bonding over singing.
Oh my friggin god, they are! … so, in that case… who’s getaway?
I’ve been shipping them since Danny helped Sal with learning maths.
I’m a math teacher and I’ve seen countless times the romantic effects of math tutoring. Mathematics is a powerful aphrodisiac, people.
After a few minutes of second order differential equations, I’d be up for anything as long as it’s not maths.
Danny did not help Sal with learning math but with owning it. He made her see the light. She still has to walk up to it herself.
“had” to. Her grades, the last time they were mentioned, were significantly better even if they were lower than the perfect score she expected for what she did to the TA.
I’m still friend-shipping them but it’s a ride or die friendship.
They’re a fantastic pairing though.
I still have trouble letting letting go of Walkyverse ships, so some part of me still wants Billie and Danny, but dammit this is so cute.
I know what you mean. Thanks to the Walkyverse, Joyce-Walky are still my OTP and I freaking miss Jason.
…I’ll settle Joyce-Joe, once they both mature a little more.
Old Walky ships are why I’m gunning for these two – otherwise I’d probably be on the good ship friendship.
*flashes back to the episode of Person of Interest that used it*
This is your wake-up call…
And now I’m thinking of “Courtesy Call” by Sixx AM. Seems the theme for tonight is “albums that made folks cry”.
Person of Interest was soooooo good with their use of music.
Pictured: Sal figures out who she is without certain other people.
My brother had to do that. It wasn’t easy.
I’m very proud of, and glad to know, the person he turned out to be.
I’m glad to see Sal opening up to Danny. Seems like something she really needed to do. Marcy can’t be her only close friend when she’s uhh, been kind of bad about that for a while now.
In Marcie’s defence I’d be pretty mad too if I got fired because of my friend.
Also, Marcie came here for Sal, to BE with Sal. But, while Sal feels for Marcie, she doesn’t feel THAT way about her. There’s levels of rejection going on here, between them.
I don’t know if Marcie feels romantically for Sal either (but that’s what fan fiction is for) but she did indeed move here to stay close to her and she’s currently living like a sardine for it. No wonder she was really really mad.
I forget, how did Marcie get fired?
She probably got blamed for AG and Sal getting into a fight with Ryan.
She moved here for her, but she can’t move here with her.
A rather touching moment, and also don’t think I haven’t noticed that Sal has stripped off a layer here before engaging in emotional signing with a currently single Danny, Willis I see you scheming *eyes suspiciously*
*singing
We’re just being fed cute couple moments all over the place here, it has to be a setup for more pain
Valentine’s day is coming.
Oh lordy no
Like winter is coming but Willis is the Night King
Oh, honey.
Yeah, I’ve kind of thought for a while that someone needs to hug Sal and just say to her: “It’s okay.”
CUE THE MONTAGE.
you stop that right now, young lady
FREEBIRD!!!
No.
“I’m not saying it’s fair, but everyone’s thinking
You’re a jerk or a prick or a turd
If I leave here tomorrow
You’ll still be the guy who yelled Freebird“
+1 Doubleclicks
Just wanna say, I know our names are similar, but IT WASN’T ME
Something about Hurt is probably undermined by playing it on a cheap plastic ukulele.
Or perhaps enhanced by it.
I can’t decide.
The dorkiness of the instrument would undercut the mood if it were anyone else. Since it’s Danny, you just know he’s unaware of how dorky it sounds, but he’s so damn sincere it wouldn’t matter. Sal certainly doesn’t seem to mind
The needle tears a hole…
The old familiar sting…
Try to kill it all away….
But I remember everything.
What have I become?
What have I become…
My sweetest friend…
Everyone I know goes away in the end…
And you could have it all…
my empire of dirt. I will let you down…
I will make you hurt.
It’s probably really good for Sal to be doing this. Hope she doesn’t end up falling for Danny though, that’d be kind of unfortunate all things considered. He’s a bit of a hot mess, and the Amber and the Ethan situations complicate matters.
Danny could probably stand to be single a while longer and figure himself out more before dating again, but he’s not really a mess like he once was. She could do a lot worse
FWIW, whilst I do ship Danny and Sal, they’re one of those healthy relationships that, if they become romantic, will only do so after the the necessary long time of friendship and emotional intimacy have passed. It won’t be sudden, it would be just the logical next step for them both.
I could see Sal moving it too fast, and causing problems for the relationship that way.
New storyline tomorrow?… Nah, probably back to The Date.
Normally, Willis says in his posting comment if it’s the end of a chapter so, no, it looks like we have a few more strips of this chapter to go.
Yeah, no comment here means we’re probably just zooming off these two for the night.
I do agree that this feels weirdly like an end-of-storyline strip.
I completely agree, it really does. It would also feel appropriate for a penultimate storyline strip. But I suspect we’ll see more of Billie and Ruth first (although I wouldn’t be too surprised if he leaves it to our imagination and has how it went talked about either).
Dan looks pretty smug for someone who’s playing the same 3 chords over and over.
Such an appropriate grav for your comment.
Hey, it’s worked for Neil Young for over 50 years now!
I can’t decide if I fully ship them, because if I did I would want it to be like a real slow burn romance, at a rate that would not fit with the nature of this comic.
I think I’m at, “I really like this friendship and want to see it develop more, also I want to brush Sal’s hair.”
And now Sal has to hide all the hairbrushes.
I read that as “hiding in the bushes” and I was like “…with Danny ?”
Yeah slow burn in this comic would take decades.
I have this song (Johnny Cash version) in my YTM favorites mix. It says it’s from some video game soundtrack.
And now there’s another video from the movie Logan of the same song. There sure are a lot of situations that this particular song fits.
My favorite video I’ve seen to it is the Bojack Horseman one!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWBvnarcfns
HOoly moley I love this so freaking much!
Now I want to hear a ukelele cover of Hurt.
Here you go. I love the internet.
https://youtu.be/ujUN9GXR0L0
That is damn good. Thanks. Now I am gonna bring out my ukulele.
Okay, so I grabbed my ukulele just to see if I could play it at speed for full singing speed (based off of the Johnny Cash version). I could not. Sal might be singing really slow or I suck at playing, but it’s suppose to be one strum of each.
I’m too busy friendshipping it to care about shipping it tbh. <3 <3 <3
I don’t care in what capacity, all I know is that the more these two interact, the more I want them to interact.
Johnny Cash on a ukelele is an interesting thought but gosh I love these two and this friendship so much and I’ve been trying not to comment on every strip in this sequence with “I love Sal and Danny” but I can’t refrain any longer.
I like the somewhat concerned look Danny gives her after the first lyric. I know that’s probably supposed to be shock and it probably is, but if I just heard that one line I’d probably be looking at her a little concerned too.
Aww I wasn’t expecting Sal to sing hurt but sounds apropiate
Thanks to James Roberts I can only associate that song with Megatron.
As a long time Walkyverse reader, seeing these two have a relationship in this continuity that’s actually healthy is jarring.
I guess I need to go to the UPS Store, because I am SHIPPING the two like CRAZY!
I hope the next 20 strips are just these two finishing the whole song.
I love the gradual change in Sal’s posture, from leaning forward, head down, hands between knees, singing softly, to leaning back, chin up, hands outside knees, singing loudly. This is great acting.
Oh my god. I just realised Danny is like a more successful Archie.
I’m just thinking of Riverdale and their version of such an undeservedly successful Archie.
And Joe is Reggie! IT ALL FITS (except for pretty much everyone else but oh well)
Yes but more successful with the ladies and less of a douche-nozzle.
This is wonderful. A beautiful character moment for these two. And the perfect song.
Oh god now I’m flashing back to “Logan”. So sad. So good.
And there’s the feels one-two punch.
There’s no living with a killing. There’s no going back from it. Right or wrong, it’s a brand, a brand that sticks. There’s no going back. Now, you run on home to your mother and tell her, tell her everything’s alright, and there aren’t any more guns in the valley.
General question: What do you think makes some comment sections (webcomics comments, not getting into the rest of the internet right now) more pleasant than others?
I generally enjoy this comment section; I’ve been mostly lurking in the discussion section of another webcomic though–one which may very well have decent overlap in readership–and I find it much more often unpleasant. It’s an interesting contrast.
To be quite honest, it’s heavy moderation. The hateful garbage gets deleted.
I can understand that as part of it, of course, but that doesn’t seem like all there is.
wait wait, I can fix this
LOL #wrecked troll face u mad bro
(insert bigoted term of your choice here)
Perfect
thx
I wouldn’t say “heavy” moderation so much as I would say enlightened moderation. By and large, individuals have to really prove they are walking violations of Wheaton’s Law before they are outright banned.
And I think that actually involves way more “emotional labor” on Willis’s part than just plain heavy moderation. (The fact that the concept of emotional labor still needs to be in scare quotes is an issue beyond the scope of this question, but still relevant to it.)
What I didn’t manage to say in previous post is: my sense is that Willis has put a lot of work into guiding the ethos of this comment section.
Also, remember how OLD this comment section is – much of it transplanted whole from the Shortpacked! comment section, and many of them from even before that. There’s a community here, that developed over long years. They support each other, and defend against attackers, and are emotionally and culturally pretty mature.
Perhaps it’s also due to people being so respectful of others here (I mean that in a good way) that leads to others returning that respect
Heavy moderation to weed out the bigotry, and commenters who want to have insight and discuss it (rather than just ‘thanks for updating’ and comments like ‘it’s just a comic don’t think about it so deeply’)
yeah, iirc there were several waves of commenters going from “aargh you are so wrong” to “ohhh, I thought you meant *this* not *that*” and such, and it took effort on both sides to get past the kneejerk feelings and actually try to understand one another
but the more it happened the more the positive feedback loop built up.
and there was the awesomeness of Cerberus’ Comic Reactions too.
I think there’s a critical mass of commenters who:
– actually want to read and learn from each other, hooray
– are socially anxious, and/or are very accommodating towards anxiety.
– like overthinking (both doing so, and being around it)
– also lots of us are just very nice
– moreover there has been strong moderation, since before DoA even began, like for years and years.
These traits can be kryptonite to that thoughtless cruelty that plagues the Internet. So we get this neat little space where people are often very honest/vulnerable and where people aren’t jerks about it. (Also we like puns, but that’s probably separate.)
Willis and the readers appreciate this atmosphere and perpetuate it. Thoughtful posts get socially encouraged and rewarded. Readers rally against mean posts unless/until the comment gets deleted (which is typically very quick indeed). Sometimes Willis himself comments, and he has the most power, so that settles it. (Even when Willis hasn’t personally commented in a long time, we know he reads the comments, and we know his values, so that helps, too.)
There’s surely more but I think that’s the most important stuff.
I wonder if the lack of notifications of comment replies – although that’s something that I wish was present – might help as well.
You have to be dedicated to the comments section to keep a discussion going (checking back for replies manually, and the like), rather than a hit and run single comment every now and then. So, this filters out less dedicated people, and someone who’s dedicated will culturally immerse in how the comments section works?
well, there is an rss feed – but even that isn’t the most convenient sort of notification (plus it’s very flaky at times)
I think it also helps that there’s a new comic every day, so replying to something on an older comic feels impolite somehow… and people who don’t care about impolite are likely to get moderated away sooner or later.
I just wish my good commenting habits here would transfer to other places a little better. most places are ok, but at Captain Awkward (where you’d think things would be similar to here) I feel like my comments are mediocre at best and often I’m kicking myself after hitting submit… it’s like another alter is running things when I’m there, and like, wtf? whyyyy?
And even if you do reply to older comics, no one’s likely to read it anyway.
All of this, plus what Leorale detailed below (above?) — the self-selection of readers/commenters plus good moderation leads to a positive feedback loop rather than a negative one. I don’t think “heavy moderation” is quite the right descriptor, as to me that implies draconian control. Rather, very little is actually off-limits for discussion, as long as you aren’t being hateful.
It also helps that new commenters are automatically sent to the moderation queue and are never seen publicly if Willis doesn’t approve them. Besides eliminating the outright trash, it also reveals the true colors of those who would first make an “acceptable, but possibly unpopular” comment, and then when not seeing their missive after 10 minutes, follow it up with something like “WHY ARE YOU CENSORING ME YOU CUCK!!!!”
More than once I’ve seen Willis post a screenshot like that on Twitter, saying “I was going to approve you this morning, but never mind!” That too — Willis freely mocks the trolls on Twitter (but they are mostly not discussed in-band in these comments, which I think is an important distinction).
The jerks figured out pretty quickly their opinions aren’t wanted. There still seems to be some rudeness every once and a while, but that’s not nearly as bad as other places.
Well Some1 had to do it.
I think it’s a combination of a self selected audience and good moderation.
Wait, what did I do again?
You know what you did.
Is it wierd that I’m jealous?
….hm
Best strip in the storyline.
Hey I just thought of something, what’s Sal Majoring in anyway ?
Undeclared, I believe. It was referenced in the hovertext of a previous ukulele-stairs strip.
I’m trying so hard to contain my fanboying for their friendship right now
Another question: does anyone have a good, gender neutral alternative for “fangirling/fanboying”?
Fangushing?
“Are you a girl or a boy?”
“I am a gush.”
(But really, good suggestion.)
agreed
I honestly just use Fangirl for everyone.
I gravitate toward that, but also kind of feel weird about it. Like, there are overall gender stereotype concerns with that, and then there’s, like, a more personal level…I’m NB and get read as a girl a lot, and when I’m trying to push back on that, it feels weird to be referring to myself as a girl. I was mostly asking for myself, for what I could call it when I didn’t want to use “girl” or “boy” in describing my actions, and with that it makes sense to me that other people might feel that way too.
Fanning?
See, with “Fanning” my first instinct is to go “Elle or Dakota?” because I guess I’m just terrible like that. After that it makes me think of actually waving a fan. I think in context where the meaning is clear it could work, though to me it doesn’t quite carry the same connotations.
Stanning?
They get starstruck and fermished, they could just plotz
Squeeing?
That’s a good question that I have never thought about.
Fanenbying? (Although that’s not gender-neutral, that’s specific to a category of genders, and doesn’t include fangirls and fanboys. It’s more an alternative, not a replacement.)
Fanpersoning?
fanyoungpersoning!
I second fogel’s suggestion of ‘fanning’. I also like to use ‘fangeeking’ myself.
Oh, these two have one of the my favorite dynamics going on. Both of them just get to be so true to who they actually are with the other, and I dig it whether it stays friendship or builds from there.
Also, I’m new to the party here, and I basically just read this entire comic series from the beginning through today’s in less than 72 hours, and I don’t think I’ve gone on such an emotional roller coaster ride in my entire life.)
Welcome! What brought you to the comic?
That is quite the emotional roller coaster. Also, welcome to the comment section. Feel free to comment anything from deep analysis to simple reactions. All are welcomed.
Welcome to the comments! We have hugs and philosophy and feels here.
And puns. Don’t forget the puns. (@dovahqueen welcome to the comment section, btw)
Hi, DovahQueen! I used to be a webcomics reader like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.
I think that’s the best way to read webcomics personally. Welcome to the club.
I.
I have no words.
The big thing about both of these archs is that these relationships have existed before.
But to think that these two, meeting each other in such a profoundly different way like this.
I didn’t expect this to hit my like Ruth and Billie.
But it might.
The fact that it’s this song might hit harder.
I don’t know.
Putting on Cash’s version while reading this is torture, in the least worst way
Oh, GREAT. THIS came on next. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Dg-g7t2l4
Fucking rivers of tears.
Hello, Darkness, my old friend.
I’ve come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain still remains
Within the sound of silence
This has good Edgefeels
This… this is amazing
Ah ship them like FedEx
…. with “fragile” and “handle with care” labels?
Both those labels match Sal pretty well; Danny, less so. I think that Amber Girl and Amazi-Girl both dumping him pretty much broke anything that Dorothy left intact and he’s well into the ‘rebuild’ stage.
I’m trying to get a “this way up” comment in but I can’t find an angle for it.
Serving as a mutual means of climbing out of their respective moments of unhappiness?
accurate
[internal squeeeeiiiiiiiiiing]
The surprise on Danny’s face in panel 3 is spot-on.
…I can get behind this ship. Though I can’t imagine that it would be good for Amber’s mental wellbeing.
Oddly enough, as much as she fears Sal, I think that there is a self-loathing part of Amber that will see this view a ‘Danny is better off with anyone except me’ lens. This fact is tragic.
Totally randomly ran across this photo right after reading this strip.
http://mollysmom124.tumblr.com/image/170268610590
So cute!
SHUT UP I’M NOT CRYING AT MY FAVORITE SONG YOU ARE
I want to say something about this song is unhealthy, but I know better than that.
I don’t think it is possible to understate how significant it is that Sal is doing this. She earlier told Danny that she’d given up singing (implying that this was because of Marcie’s accident) and yet here she goes. Is it just that this is one of those days where she needs to sing? Or does this signify that her and Marcie’s arguably very unhealthy co-dependent relationship is finally unravelling?
BTW, I don’t think that Danny looks smug in panels 5 & 6. I just think that he’s happy that Sal is loosening her usually iron self-control for a bit; that’s letting her heart and soul out and is stopping punishing herself for the world, just for a little while.
Having listened to ‘Hurt’, it is pretty much Sal’s theme tune, isn’t it?
Bob Fosse once said that singing is for when words alone aren’t enough. I think this is one of those times.
psst: “overstate”
–Dave, this was a triumph
Wow, truly an amazing strip.
agreed
I’m just realizing you can find almost any song covered by a girl on a ukulele
But it is impossible to play a depressing song on a banjo.
A banjo tune will have to make you smile.
REM’s ‘Wendel Gee’ ?
…. Willie Nelson.
The banjo’s pretty prominent in this song, especially from the second verse onward.
These two get cuter by the comic
I’m sort of impressed that this is what it took to make the comments-as-a-whole like Danny.
Such a chill moment. Would that the comic were nothing but those from now on.
this kills the woman
What have ah become, my sweetest friend?
hey all you fickle assholes who are shipping danny and sal! have you forgotten about ETHAN? hvae you forgotten EEF?
Ship and let others Ship. Ethan’s soul belongs to Mike now, there is no getting it back.
Semi-seriously, back when Mike first started this scheme, I predicted one possible outcome is that he would genuinely fall for Ethan. It was unlikely then and remains unlikely now but stranger things have happened in a fictional world!
It would be pretty hilarious if Mike got a breakdown about “What are those feelings!? Why do I FEEL them!?”
Possibly the best outcome, though I don’t expect it at all.
He’d have to realize it after the scheme played out and Ethan had driven him away in disgust.
whoa ok i mean it wouldn’t fully soften the blow of danny/ethan being off the table but…….. this is very good.
That was what I wanted from back then! I don’t think it’s likely either, but I really would love to see it- and see the ball put into Ethan’s court (so to speak) by having HIM walk away first and things developing from there.
hehehehehe this is even better i love it!
I never shipped it to begin with, so kinda yeah. Also calling people who ship different things than you assholes is pretty shitty of you
it was definitely meant to come across in an exaggerated, “how dare you” sorta feigned anger tone. I don’t actually think people are assholes for having a different ship than me, although i get tone doesn’t always come across well in text.
I got it.
It’s the sort of thing I might say, although my own concerns at being misunderstood sometimes make me take it to ludicrous extremes. (“There should be a law against disagreeing with me!” Etc)
Yeah, I thought it was clear enough, but this is the internet where people get worked up pretty easily, so I can understand people misreading it.
also i’m bad at identifying songs. But it appears to match the rhythm of the steven universe theme, so great, that’s what it is for me now
In this case Sal is singing the lyrics to the song Danny is playing, but I am completely sure that Danny plays Steven Universe stuff all the time.
Hurt doesn’t really scan with the Steven Universe theme.
Oh yeah, I am more meaning that in my head Danny plays Steven Universe stuff a lot – not that literally every song he plays is Steven Universe. In this case I am relatively certain he is playing Hurt, even though I can’t read the musical notation, because otherwise Sal singing along wouldnt make sense.
I still believe he spends much time playing Steven Universe.
I don’t know nothin’ about musical notation but the lyrics are to the song Hurt. Probably the Johnny Cash cover.
♪♪Revolving doors, what have I done?
Someone on the TV attempting loss?
Revolving doors, what will I become?
A redneck song.♪♪
Yay, Gorillaz! I Love “Revolving Doors”
“Kiss her, you Blockhead!”
I love these two so much. I’m trying to only friend-ship it, because Ethan. I once misunderstood a character’s words just because what I thought was said meant there was more Ethan/Danny happening in that storyline than there really was, and I wanted to believe.
But Ethan/Mike and Danny/Sal are showing me that I was more fickle than I knew.
I don’t ship this! Except for friendshipping! Being friends is very good and they shouldn’t go beyond that. They’re not going to anyway. Because they only like each other as friends! I needed to say this to go against the tide of numerous romance-shipping comments! That’s all.
I mean honestly, I’m not even seeing any hint of romance between them. Maybe because I just don’t want to? But also because there is NONE, haha. Personally I don’t think Willis would go that route anyway (and also I don’t want him to but I’m sure that’s already clear).
I definitely friend-ship this. That said, some good ingredients for romance are being intensely open with and supportive of each other, trying new things with each other, and growing with each other. (Of course, that’s good ingredients for friendship as well.)
Willis has said he doesn’t want to revisit established romances between old characters from the Walkyverse, except those that didn’t get a lot of exploration previously. That said, this version of Danny and Sal are very, very different from the Walkyverse versions, and I could see him wanting to explore the very different romance they would have.
I think it would work out…. pretty dang well, actually. There romance would be the sort where they can drop all the pretenses and be open with each other about insecurities, challenges, etc, all in intensely private and intimate moments, when they couldn’t do that with anyone else. Mutual shelter in a world otherwise devoid of it. Soulmates no one else understood. But I’m quite happy with it just being a friendship as well, and most of those same ingredients would work for a strong friendship too.
I just think people should let things happen instead of freaking out about them after ever page.
dang monitor blurry, danny shocked…must reach emergency geritol.
I heard many years ago that that stuff contains a lot of alcohol. Or is that your point?
*squee*
But seriously, this is incredibly heartwarming. It’s wonderful to see them sharing this kind of quiet companionship, and that they can be so comfortable and open with each other (even Sal). Their developing relationship just seems very healthy and good for both of them, especially now with all that’s been happening in their lives.
I wouldn’t say though that I want them to end up together as a couple, rather I (friend)ship them. Not that they wouldn’t make a cute couple, but I just love to see close friendships depicted in stories without having to necessarily involve romantic feelings (especially between man/woman, there just isn’t many of those stories or even if they start that way, they eventually develop into a romance). Besides, I ship Ethan/Danny
::heart cracks in half::
I think a friendship would be good for both of them now, and if romance comes along after a while it might be good too, but thats down to willis and i think they both need a friendship right now that doesnt involve and deeper meaning than that.
*any , not and…
;_;
Now… I usually can’t bear shipping.. s’just me…
But I always thought, across the entire Walky multiverse, that Danny and Sal’s story was the saddest of them all.
I’d love to see them end up together, and happy, in SOME iteration…
Thanks for putting it into words. <3
Sal and Danny bonding here is just great! But that song. The Johnny Cash version really pulls the heart strings and the video for the song brought tears to my eyes when I saw it.
I like the friendship these two are developing. It’s good for Sal to get more real friends. One does hope for a budding romance but really a good friendship is better for her.
Danny will always be just shy of the mark. The trick is to set the mark sky high rather than just in front of him and admire failure at levels others would only dream of.
I looove this.
Now did you read that in Trents voice or Johnny’s voice?
I always thought Sal would sound more like Jeannie C. Riley or Janis Joplin.
As for Hurt, Johnny Cash has the better version, hands down. Trent even admits that.
::heart destroyed::
Is the “I hurt myself today” supposed to be both the song and also a literal statement from Sal? Because… that would explain the permanent wearing of motorcycle gloves. And would make an awful lot of sense with her self-loathing.
I’m pretty sure the motorcycle gloves are to hide what amber did to her hand? That is at least what I had always thought.
Yeah, they are.
That said, I wouldn’t be too shocked if this were something she’d struggled with before. Danny, at least, seems to be wondering if its a lyric or something literal in panel three before she adds on to it, then he seems to relax.
Willis baby you can be honest. Was Logan coming out around the time you made this?
G’damnit I’m not crying, you are!
I’ve heard that’s the new flu strain.
–Dave, i may be immune
The truth is Sal needs another good friend a hell of a lot more than a boyfriend. She is already very confident in her physical appearance, and doesn’t seem to place a lot of emotional value on sex. Making another friend is actually a much bigger breakthrough for her.
Danny is whitebread, whitebread is new for her. But this is fking adorable.
Hey, I just noticed she removed her jacket between the 2 pages
For some reason, I think that Sal is terribly lonely.
I think your right, she is lonely but would not admit it if asked..
Well, Marcie’s the only person she consider(ed?) a friend and Marcie’s currently not speaking to her. That’s pretty horribly lonely.
On the other hand, Marcie was always not speaking to her.
…sorry, bad joke
I don’t actually see these two becoming a couple… but I do see everyone else concluding that they are a couple.
I don’t either, for a few reasons. One, Willis seems to be trying to avoid all ships from the original canon, and Danny and Sal were one of the first couples ever introduced (if not the first, I don’t remember). Yeah, they broke up in the walkyverse, but it still stands.
Two, they have a good dynamic as it is, and I think a relationship would change that for the worse.
But all that aside, I love this page.
Besides everyone thinking they’re a couple and only in denial is a lot more fun.
oooh nice. this was one of the first songs i learned when i started playing guitar.
Is this the Cash version?
The really good version?
This is a beautiful strip.
I Don’t Always Sing
[outdated image macro]
But When I Do It’s Surprisingly Emo