GROW INTO THE SAME WOMAN THAT DOESN’T GET YOU LAID
this is gonna blow up in both their faces…
…i did not actually mean it that way, but i suppose it could work like that..
Nah, even Joe’s not that lucky.
Kinda reminds me of, “Oh, you Pagans and your cute problems!”
WHERE IS THAT FROM? I know it, but I really can’t think where from?
Becky’s going to be a pregnant lesbian stripper by semester two.
Wouldn’t be surprised. My own experience in high school and college was the narrow-minded religious fanatics were the first to fall into a pit of moral degeneracy by their own faith’s definition. They were almost always hypocritical about it as well. “If I do it, it’s not a sin, but if YOU do it you’ll burn in HELL!”
That sounds kind of ridiculous. Do people tolerate the company of the individuals you speak of? Because they sound like they wouldn’t really be fit for any social group. Outcast both by those who value morals and those who don’t. Almost definitively unlikable.
Hypocrisy usually doesn’t bother people as much as you’d think. I think it’s because most people aren’t willing to throw stones.
Well hypocrisy is a facet of what was described to be sure, but if someone is some manner of moral degenerate, then they probably don’t fit in at church, and if they spend all their time condemning moral degenerates, I can’t see them fitting in with that crowd either. I’m having trouble imagining a viable social circle for the type of person described here.
People aren’t necessarily bothered by hypocrisy, but to systematically alienate yourself both from religious people, and from the secular world, this seems like it would at the very least severely limit social options.
Unfortunately these people congregate in large groups. Living in the Bible Belt of the South of know this all too well.
My mother is one of those types
In high school, since these people were all of the same fundamentalist sect, it seemed just the “moral” standard of that congregation. So this was a case of “how is it that you see the mote in thy brother’s eye, but not the beam in thine own”. Whether that blatant hypocrisy was typical of that particular branch of Christian fundamentalism or just to the local chapter of it, I don’t know.
In college, while they were tolerated and seemed to have friends (or at least drinking/drugging buddies), I cannot say definitively since I had more options to avoid them, as opposed to growing up with them and so learning about them and their church regardless of my own wishes.
@Loki. Indeed. Those willing to throw stones are usually the hypocrites themselves.
Oh wow. Two responses while I was typing. Certainly I can understand the mass assembly of fools, and I suppose the social workings of society have all sorts of strange mechanisms that would allow these people to congregate without going at eachother’s throats.
And yes, there seems to be some odd quirk about human nature that dictates that the harshest criticizers are generally guilty themselves. I don’t know why it is that the man who spends his time criticizing everyone he views as “wussier” than himself can do nothing but bongo and complain when given any piece of work, inconvenience, or general tribulation, but there it is.
Sounds like my first girlfriend.
The good news is Becky will get her own show on TLC.
You know, I normally wouldn’t consider your date’s religion to be criteria for a first date.
You’ve obviously never been (or dated) a fundamentalist – not only is your religion part of the criteria, but the exact denomination as well. Back when I was religious, my old church seemed to think Catholics were going to a special hotter place in Hell than even heathen nonbelievers…
Ya, some people can be very picky. I’m Christian and while I wouldn’t necessarily recommend dating someone outside of the religion, it’s by no means a sin or wrong as far as I’m concerned. Some people thoguh believe you’ll go straight to Hell for that one. Some people can just be so fickle.
And let’s not forget the parents of those kids. There are many kids who refuse to date people form outside their faith, not because of their own opinions, but because they know their parent’s won’t approve.
Been there. Try growing up mormon, knowing that there are sixteen women of your faith in the city for you to pursue, and seventeen men to compete with. No one wants to be the odd man out because if you don’t get married and have children then you can’t get into heaven.
When it gets most ridiculous is when people actually move to cities with higher concentrations of mormon women for that sole purpose. God I’m glad I could finally just mellow out with the whole religious shtick once I moved out for college.
I think this is a result of the hurdles people set up for themselves. More morals means more ways to screw up, and if you let your whole identity ride on those morals, when you screw up it can be devastating. And even when you succeed, watching everyone around you not even care about the same morals, and enjoying themselves more than you, just adds to the temptation. Combine the slip-ups and the frustration, and something is likely to burst as the person decides “screw it!”
Especially true for those who previously were surrounded (solely) by supportive peers and now find themselves thrown to the wolves with no defenses (e.g. college students who were previously home schooled). Those who didn’t grow up isolated from the world are more likely to have gotten support and practice when the temptation first arose, and know where it’s okay to bend and where they need to stand firm. If they’re first exposed to other ideas after they’re separated from any support, they’ll try to resist everything and crack like an egg from the pressure.
oh dude, i’m catholic and i can tell you we totally are
going to a hotter place in hell i mean, i wanted to be under what i was replying to.
I actually had a good friend on the receiving end of that attitude when he first moved from the Detroit area to Dallas/Fort Worth to work for Radio Shack/Tandy years ago. A co-worker & his wife invited my friend to a church ice-cream social when my friend saw a cute girl in the crowd. He later asked the co-worker “why didn’t you introduce me to her?” and the co-worker (totally straight-faced) said, “Well, since you’re Jewish -and therefore damned for all time – I didn’t want to put the temptation in front of her.” Fun in the bible-belt….
Oh no! Dating a Jewish person? That’s…A SIN!
…I’m not doing this sarcasm thing right, am I.
I’m pretty sure the point here is that when you think that someone loves, or could love, you, then you start to compromise for them. Whether or not Christianity is the ‘truth’, disregarding your own beliefs for a date is usually bad.
Well you were doing it fine… until you asked if you were doing it right.
I love Joyce’s expression in the last panel.
Joyce has her priorities in order I suppose.
Wow… all this anti-semitism in a comic….
Dear Joyce and Becky.
Jesus was Jewish……your pastor is a moron…
I don’t think cautioning against inter-faith romance counts as anti-semitism. Neither Becky nor her pastor singled out Jewish folk as bad to date. And for particularly devout individuals, dating someone with similar beliefs is actually pretty sensible advice.
Now I don’t know how much emphasis Joyce’s and Becky’s church (in the DoAverse) puts on proselytizing. But in our world, don’t the more gung-ho of the evangelical denominations give you major bonus points for getting Jews in particular to accept Christ, more so than other non-Christians? Given that, in their theology, the New Testament supercedes the Hebrew scriptures, and belief in Jesus supercedes the laws of the Torah? Not to mention how we allegedly were the ones who betrayed him the most because he was one of us, etc., etc.
When I was in Hebrew school, Jewish summer camps and such, the rabbis used to warn us about how there were entire evangelical organizations (like “Jews for Jesus”) dedicated specifically to witnessing to Jews, for these reasons. So mightn’t Joyce’s church view dating a Jew as an opportunity, rather than a sin? I don’t know. Insufficient data here, probably.
It doesn’t seem like Joyce’s and Becky’s church is one that gives bonus points for converting Jews (at least by dating). If it was, then Becky would be asking things like “Have you gotten him to accept Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior” instead of scolding Joyce for dating non-Christians.
Conversion is viewed as great in most religions. The more sensible one’s (which is of course all relative) realize that dating other religions has more potential for the loss of a member than anything else. It’s just not the smartest means of proselytizing, with such high risk, and very little potential gain (spending ages on one person instead of going around the town and rounding up all you can grab).
Actually, conversion’s not that popular outside Christianity, Islam, and maybe the Hare Krishnas.
Heh, go to NYC sometime and wait for the evangelical jews to show up. (I realize they are a minority in Judaism, but they are darned amusing.)
The most effective way to convert a Jew is with your Christian vagina.
Dating is a terrible< way to proselytize, because the more one becomes romantically attached to someone the more you want to please them and listen to them and not argue with them – which puts the proselytizer at risk of being converted themselves. Or failing that, having them marry the person without first converting them, resulting in a two-religion household which is very bad for the indoctrinainwashing of kids.
The much better way to proselytize is to do it while thinking of the subjects as mere statistics, that you care nothing at all about except in how they effect your conversion numbers.
The fact that it’s a terrible method doesn’t stop people from attempting it, sadly… Or using it as an excuse, consciously or no, to date people “outside the faith”.
GASP! Non-Christian Dating?! Oh my god! How dreadful! Joyce could be exposed to the opinion and beliefs of other people, allowing for her to grow as a person outside of a single organization! It’s madness! Madness I say!
Good to see where Joyce’s priorities lie. I was expecting Mike to force her out of her comfortable little religious bubble, but Joe doing it will be more interesting.
Mike? Seriously? That seems out of character for him. Wouldn’t the more likely scenario be that Mike completely horrifies Joyce to the point that she flees in terror back, driven so deeply into her religious bubble that slightest opposing stimuli could result in a complete psychotic break?
Shortpacked!Mike has a tendency to force people to acknowledge the worst parts of themselves (usually hypocrisy), leading to growth and maturity. It just so happens that he does it in the most insane, psychotic way imaginable.
I like that. I choose the advice that gets me a date.
even possibly laid
I’m pretty sure she hasn’t thought that far ahead.
Not just a date, but a date with a cute guy!
It’s okay. Joyce will get Joe’d. Joe’d up da butt.
Joyce is a woman with an objective, guys! And I love her cute little pouting face xD
I really wanna know exactly WHAT the Pastor said about dating non-Christians.
He probably said not to. There`s not really much to that story.
Der… Gee, thanks. I never would have guess that…
However, there are many ways one can say that. Was it the fire and brimstone approach where he anyone who attempts it is condemned to hell or was it an subtle villainization of other religious groups or was he easy going about it and only stating how difficult it can be for some people of opposing faiths.
Hm… Well in the church I was raised in it mostly took the form of constant reinforcement of how other mormons understood our lifestyles, and outsiders would require lots of explaining of our standards. Outsiders expect things like premarital sex.
Also, outsiders can’t enter the building we do our marriage ceremony in, which means that our marriage wouldn’t be recorded in heaven as well as on earth, which is needed to get into the highest level of heaven. May or may not shed light on her faith, but there it is.
That’s pretty stupid.
Two points. We’ll start with the boring one first. Joyce and Becky’s pastor does have a legit point – dating someone who doesn’t believe the same things you do, ESPECIALLY if the both of you have really strong religious convictions – can be a bed of thorns. It isn’t inherently bad, and can lead to a lot of very interest conversations and investigation of your own religion, but it is… rough. I say this out of experience.
Of course, considering Joe, I doubt he has anything NEAR what Joyce does in terms of religious conviction. Unless “fucking” is a religion.
That aside! It is also my experience that Christians who are okay with swearing (yes, most hardcore denominations that advocate DO NOT BE UNEQUALLY YOKED would consider “crap” a bad word) are raging hypocrites. This should end interestingly.
Joe I believe is the patron saint of fucking…
If what you said is true, that may not bode well for me and the guy I’m dating at present…completely different in our religious views. Prejudiced bastard(Not you).
In all seriousness, that does not bode well for you, if one or both of you care in any significant way about your religion.
If you’re both the local-religion equivalent of cafeteria catholics, then you might be able to pull it off – possibly without difficulty. But if either of you have the notion that the other person’s religion needs to be changed at some point in the future, well…
I’m not going to pretend that I’m some wise guru that knows all the ins and outs of inter-religion dating, nor am I going to pretend I know everything about your life.
All I’m going to do is advise you to scrutinize your relationship and determine whether or not the headache of arguing with someone about religion is worth it. And if you think it’s worth it, then ask the question about whether or not either one of you will change what you think, and/or can live with the difference. If the answer is “no,” then – heartless as it may seem – you probably ought to break up with him to save the both of you a lot of heartache.
I don’t know you, so bear in mind that I”m just a stranger on the internet that likely doesn’t know what she’s talking about, but the main person you need to be looking out for is you. You have to decide if the difference is worth it.
Yeah, in fairness to Becky, I really doubt the pastor would approve of Joe…though not so much for his Jewishness as his Joeishness. (Not that either of them know that at this point, though I suspect Joyce will fairly soon.)
My inexplicable crush on New Joyce only continues to grow despite having every reason not to…
She certainly seems to understand nuance better than her friend… Which says something about her friend.
Neither my parents nor my siblings married people with whom they had precise religious identities. My nieces and nephews are all OK with that. We’re all actually somewhat close to “It’s Walky!” Mike in that respect — we worship our dogs, and they reciprocate. If we were half the people our dogs think we are, we’d be twice the people we are.
So when is she going to have her date so she can have all her hopes and dreams dashed when Joe tries to bang her? It seems so long ago he asked her out.
Good for you Jocye.
Pastors warn young women against dating non-Christians because :
A)The aim of dating (from the outlook of the pastor) is for getting married and make lots of Christian babies.
B)A difference in dating outlook may jeopardize this. It might actually lead the young woman to lose religious conviction.
Joyce probably doesn’t disagree with most, or any, of this. But since it’s her life, she also looks to be happy. She’s an optimist. Good for her.
She’s wrong in this case, of course. Not because Joe is jewish, but because he’s just trying to get in her pants.
Joe is NOT just trying to get into Joyce’s pants!
…He want to get his hands under her shirt as well.
It also can lead to a lot of heartache, because it’s *very* upsetting to a young christian woman when her boyfriend/potential husband will, in her mind, be going to hell. There’s a lot of angst tied up in that, so it’s more than pastors advocating making christian babies and young ladies staying true to their faith. It’s a means to “guard your heart” (how many times did I hear that phrase growing up?), and protect yourself emotionally.
This comic give me flashbacks to when my High School pastor (I went to a religious private school) made comparison that dating or marrying someone who’s non-Christian was just as bad in God’s eyes as being a pedophile. No, Really.
Still, good for Jocye.
Joyce’s face in that last panel is what David Willis uses in his DoA advertisements… That have been circulating since the comic first started. That’s a pretty large buffer.
I kinda get the feeling that Becky’s been waiting for Joyce to get a date all this time so that she can use this line…
Whatever, I like her a bit more now, I think. Good comebacks command respect.
EPIC POUTING MANEUVER!
CRITICAL MISS! Pouts don’t work over the phone.
Sneak fsck Joyce and then sneak fsck Becky, then goes and tends to his floppy disk.
Uhhh, Joe does, or you do?
Me ofcourse. Joe fscks everybody, so no need to mention that.
Thanks to Joe, nobody dies a virgin … except you know, danny.
It seems he passed her questionarre.
Unfortunately, every part of this comic is feasible.
I’ve been around fundamentalists and estranged family members of fundamentalists for years. This revamp of Joyce is… really intriguing. I can really see that her speech to Walky about Dina’s death and potential afterlife will have nothing on some of the events in this comic in terms of making me pity and despise her simultaneously.
Lemme clarify. Intriguing and quite realistic.
I do not think I like this becky. In fact I think I despise her..
Dunno why, just.. hate her..
Like it’s been said previously, I’ve also run into folks like this, and it’s just…urgh! Becky strikes me as the kind who was previously a rabid sinner, who eventually converted out of pity or complete depression.
To sound too much like Blade on this, there are two types: the purebloods and the manufactured freaks.
Becky is the latter, while Joyce is the prior.
Of course, purebloods are more healthy, and therefore, their defenses of their faith do not revolve around the Homer Simpson “But the cookie told me so!” argument.
While the manufactured freak jobs are emotionally brittle, they are inherently more immune to rational thought, and if taken down in a logical debate, are still 86% combat effective.
Here’s a tip: go for the nerve stem!
So Becky reminds you of Roomies! Mary?
I’m gonna skip all the religious banter and say: *Damn* but Joyce is cute in the last panel.
I lived in the dorms in college and had a guy who lived in my hall my second year freak out when he found out there were atheists living in the hall… he was shocked that “in this age of enlightenment and knowledge anyone would choice to not be christian” thats when i pointed out I was president of the university pagan group.
Good lord, tell me we see a non-“Strawman” Christian. Not EVERY Christian is like that.
(Just the Baptists. *Is shot*)
My friend kind of treats me the same way when we go to different summer camps.
I believe Joyce’s last statement is truly one to live by.
What’s always surprised me about the internet, is how quickly people seem to latch onto a single interpretation of an event, draw conclusions from it, and seem utterly shocked when their conclusion later turns out to be incorrect due to evidence that wasn’t present(ed) at the initial event.
I mean, it happens IRL too, of course, but there you’re more likely to be held accountable for your mistaken assumption. Online, you can largely say what you want and suffer nothing. (I want to make clear that this isn’t a shot at anyone in particular or specifically, just something that I find hard to state both succinctly AND tactfully.)
So with no hard evidence to the contrary: Becky seems alright so far. Maybe stuck a little too fast to an informed worldview, but Joyce never seemed like the sort to consort with the fervently closed-minded
I think, looking back, we might see another reason Becky was upset to learn about Ethan. I suspect after this phone call was when she started to ask some questions of herself.
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Who should get doodled inside Book 4?
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