Taxing Taxonomy Leslie? Really? I thought you had better tastes.
Sounds like someone is mistaken on a fundamental level.
I know! Dodge Brawlers was WAY BETTER.
Dodge Brawlers is good, but it’s hardly the BEST. Suggesting that is practically heresy if you’ve seen Recess Monkey.
Yeah, Clash of the Simians, Giant Monkeys All-Out Melee and it’s sequels, All-Out Rumble and All-Out Brawl, Monkey Master vs MechaGorilla Kong and World’s Strongest Apes are one of the best episodes.
The best part in ‘MM vs. MGK’ would have to be the tribute to classic Kaiju films where they switched to live actors in rubber suits for a moment as Dexter’s dimension warp machine began to overheat!
And World’s Stongest Ape is tribute to shonen anime, which is weird seeing how Dexter hated anime as mentioned in “This Man, This Monkey”
I liked the Sensitive Scanner’s debut episode, but then again, I am a huge shipping freak for Scanner x Monkey Master, so you can call me biased.
Don’t know about that really, Time Travel Trouble, the second episode in the Time’s Short two-parter always struck me as one of the greatest episodes of season 2.
For some reason Dexter’s line ‘we’ve already met later‘ always cracks me up.
and you know guys, we need love over here.
Don’t worry! I’ll be writing up mini-synopses tonight!
Huh. Thanks? Up until now I thought that series was just fiction existing exclusively in the Walkyverse/Dumbiverse/etc.
What can I say, I haven’t watched TV for the past 8 or so years. I’ve had the Internet for that.
My favourite episode remains “Ape, not Monkey”. Just throwing that outthere.
Yeah, Monkey Master vs Mechagorrila Kong was WAY BETTER.
Yeah, but the fight between Dexter and his good counterpart in “Double Trouble” was the best fight ever.
Pfft. None of those episodes can compare to “Cinnamon Simian Synonym.”
Really? Cinnamon Simian Synonym? Noel, have you even gotten PAST fourth season? “Gorilla Gone Gooey” was WAAAAY better! The cinnamon roll fight cannot even compare to the Bodacious Banana Blast attack scene!
“Gorilla Gone Gooey” is the SECOND best Monkey Master focused episode.
The title of BEST Monkey Master episode and therefore BEST EPISODE EVAR, belongs to “Ape, not Monkey”. The ending really gets you. After a joyride of hilarity, this shows shows us once again, that it actually can pull of some genuine emotion. Dexter wall breaking joke in teh end, really saves me everytime from tearing up.
I’ll admit, “Ape, Not Monkey” really hit on the psychological anomalies of Monkey Master’s personality with a humorous twist, but “Gorilla Gone Gooey” showcased Monkey Master’s gentler side! For crying out loud, the meadow lullaby was genius JBO. GENIUS!
I’ll give you “Ape, Not Monkey” as the best stand-alone episode, but the best story arc was the three part “Planet of the Monkeys” plotline. It paid homage to so many classic movies.
I think we can all agree that “Trukk vs. Monkey” was the worst.
I know it’s not the best one, but I’ve got a sentimental love for “The Big Cheese and the Stick of Destiny”…
To me, “The Sword of Dextrose” is a guilty pleasure for me.
BTW, who do you think had the best run on the show?
As a writer, I’d say Derek Thorn.
As a showrunner… Monty Green, maybe? Lee Goldstein’s run was pretty awesome, too.
Trukk vs. Monkey the worst? Really? Who didn’t love the heartwarming moment when Monkey Master sells his entire Optimus Prime collection to pay for Dexter’s bail money?
Cinnamon Simian Synonym? That’s just a rehash of Candy Kong.
Totally tops it, though. “Candy Kong” had a great concept, but an inexperienced writing team. “Cinnamon Simian Synonym” took full advantage of their increased skill. Plus, their increased animation budget and the foreshadowing only add to the fun!
And BTW, MechaGorilla Kong Reloaded sucks. I can’t believe they derailed MechaGorilla Kong’s character in favor of introducing that pathetic and useless Cutesy Cat. At least they redeemed MGK with Giant Monkeys All-Out Rumble.
Come on!!! You know that the cinnamon roll fight can’t compare to Honey Bun’s fight against Bunny Hun in Dexter’s Dad!
The fight with the Cyber-Vipers from Dexter’s Grandson was hands down the best fight, man.
“‘Tis The Treason”, guys. I never got over the scene where Santa Claus pulled off his mask, and rewatching it now there’s some pretty sharp satire in there!
Has everyone forgotten about “Chimpy Blimpy Blues,” really!?! That episode is the DEFINITION of parody!
And I guess we’re all just gonna ignore Schooly Mcools!? It was the first episode where they brought them into a school environment!
But you forgot the first rule, school, is never cool! Only episode I kinda liked school in is DoA, Dexter of Age
What about Major Ivan’s School of Pain?
Wasn’t that just a thinly disguised spin-off pilot, though?
Speaking of episodes, does anyone remember “Darkness Reigns”? I watched that particular episode where for some reason, everyone was chased by a particularly eerie shadow.
That was one of the creepiest cartoons I saw as a kid! Seeing that and the Invader Zim episode “Dark Harvest” on the same night gave me nightmares!
Heck, it was so damn creepy that they remove the episode from the DVDs. IIRC, they replaced the episode with “Micro Monkey”
You can get “Darkness Reigns” on DVD, you just have to order the “uncensored” version online. They just didn’t include it on the one they shipped out to stores.
The ‘uncensored’ collection also includes “Rude & Crude”, the unaired re-dub the voice actors did of “Banana Bash” at that one convention. The dialogue doesn’t sync up quite properly, but seeing as they voiced it live, I can forgive that.
What about “Horror Pasta”?
That one’s on the regular DVDs, albeit with about a minute cut out to make it more palatable… Though, I don’t see what the fuss was about, the dialogue even clarifies that it’s tomato sauce, not blood…
The full version’s on the uncensored DVD.
When I watched that episode, I told my brother it actually was blood. He wouldn’t touch a plate of spaghetti for an entire year…
Huh… “S.M.A. Seeks Love” is doing surprisingly well on the official fan poll for favorite episode! It’s at #10 right now…
Come on everyone know the most emotional episode of Monkey Master was “The Great Gender Bender”, when Monkey Master realized how in touch he was with his feminine side, it brought me to tears.
I thought it was “Jet Stallion”. I mean, seeing a childhood hero sacrificed his life in front of you is pretty tearjerking. Heck, I cried when Jet Stallion died.
Same here. I really wish he hadn’t been brought back to life in the made-for-TV movie “Dexter and Monkey Master: Temple of Triumph”. It really cheapened the power of his sacrifice for them to retcon it into him simply falling into a regenerative coma… So cheap.
And they made him obnoxious. Why? Jet Stallion was supposed to be a down to Earth kind of guy. Now, they made him a Ted Baxter.
But, I mean, when you get Bruce Vilanch & Andy Dick to write a movie, you’ve gotta expect suckiness.
Thank goodness that they retcon movie Jet Stallion is actually a reformed Phantom Specter and his characterization is fixed in the comics.
The made for TV movie was bad, but the Live-Action move that just came out with was terrible! M. Night Shyamalan’s plot was so terribly convoluted that is made no sense whatsoever! And don’t get me started on the character designs! I could hardly tell who was who!
not to mention they mispronounced half the names and skipped over several key ploy points because they were “…too deep for the younger demographic to catch, and thus needed simplified.”
Really am I the one who likes the season 8 (which was bad) episode “Monkeymaster see, Dexter do”. I mean MM finally convinced Dexter to try one of his plans and the two of them actually took over the world only for it all to become undone when the rubber duckie Dexter gave life too during the pre intro teaser, used the time machine to throw a pie at MechaGorilla Kong
Am I the only one who likes “O Monkey Master, Where Art Thou?”
But then again, the fact it basically rips off the Lord of the Rings relationship with Frodo and Sam where Gollum was driving them apart was easy to spot.
No love for “Requiem for Monkey Master”? It was David Franks last performance as Monkey Master before his departure and he nailed it well.
Leslie has better tastes than you, yes.
So you thought right.
I love Leslie so much.
Joyce, you’re almost ruining Roz’s point.
Roz’s point of editing a major issue of both the human condition AND human history down to a two-bit glorified catch phrase?
Yep. Walky’s point is actually the best in this comic.
You’ve just proven yourself wrong on a fundamental level then.
No one makes better points than doctor Leslie Bean !
The fittingness of this avatar gives me a headache.
Walky only said Time’s Short is better than Wedding Smashers. He didn’t say it’s better than Taxing Taxonomy.
I only just realized this… but she’s Ms. Bean! Ms. Bean!
Which is weird as she’s probably the least wacky character in Shortpacked!.
Hmm…Leslie and Walky, oh great hovertext?
…and thus, the LesJoy ship was launched.
NOOOO! Someone, quick, SABOTAGE THE LAUNCH! THERE’s A BOMB ON THAT SHIP AND IF IT HITS WATER IT WILL EXPLODE!
Sorry, I started off with a joke but then I ended with some lames 80s movie.
It’s OK, I forgive ya. 😀
No no no, I’m pretty sure that ship would be joyless.
I don’t think it could be Walky. Dorothy hasn’t managed to change his mind yet.
Of course, it’s Joyce! She just needs Dina to help correct some of her evolutionary misconceptions.
I prefer Joyna, because they want to joyna at the hips.
…I’ll just go hide in this corner now.
fitting gravatar josh
Cartoons are like physics equations: there is always one constant, and you don’t fuck with it.
Leslie continues to be awesome. She should show up in other webcomics to give dysfunctional characters a good talking to.
And make out with all the hot chicks.
She’ll finally get to shortpacked and fight Walkyverse Leslie for Robin. Robin will watch for reasons of science.
Whilst eating of the popcorn.
“And make out with all the hot chicks.”
That will be covered in the next semester.
So next semester, it will be Joe who’s convinced of already knowing everything on the syllabus and proposing to teaching the class himself ?
She just earned Walky’s respect
I just hope he doesn’t throw any toys at her face.
Walky, meet wrong tree. Wrong tree, Walky.
Heck, she just earned MY respect. That last panel has made her one of my favorite characters in this comic.
That almost sounds like a challenge to Walky.
Leslie deserves country songs written and sang in her honor.
And that fine ol’ Ms. Been
That right fine teachin’ Queen
Turned our fertile soil of mind into an endless field of green.
I actually heard that in a John Denver voice with fitting guitar music in my head.
Was there a a fiddle? I imagine there being a guitar, Fiddle and banjo.
Joyce would be wrong anyhow, as the Bible said Noah was instructed to take two of every ‘unclean’ animal and *seven* of the ‘clean’ ones.
So, he took seven rubber duckies, apparently…
*seven of every one of the clean ones… not seven clean animals total… 😛
“Rubber ducky, you’re the one
You make this ark, where even though it’s huge, there is not one place on it where I can escape the smell poop, much less feel like I AM CLEAN, SO. MUCH. FUN.”
I’ve read that story a zillion times and never seen that. Where’s the bit I missed?
Huh. 7-2, apparently! http://biblehub.com/genesis/7-2.htm
See! That explains the lock ness monster! and why there’s not two of them!
Huh, turns out God’s just a massive racist.
And for many people, that’s a feature, not a bug.
And that wasn’t readily apparent BEFORE?
After so long trapped on a boat, I don’t think any of the animals could be considered “clean”.
That settles it. Noah is the founder of Carnival Cruise lines.
That was my first thought when I read this, as well. I expect this to lead to Joyce being taught that she doesn’t know the Bible as well as she thinks she does–which fully confirms Leslie’s point. And based on a couple of surveys I’ve heard about, the presumably atheist Leslie is likely to know more about the Bible that evangelical (and/or fundamentalist) Joyce.
Yes, but not just because she’s an atheist. It’s because she’s Leslie, and knows everything.
My impression is that Joyce has never really studied the Bible; she may have memorized a few parts of the Christian scriptures, but everything else she learned via cultural osmosis from her family. And given her family’s unusual worldview, they tend to gloss over details in favor of well known truths. Whereas Leslie may very well have taken Biblical criticism or Comparative Religion courses, in which she was expected to compare the sections of Genesis about the Deluge to fragments of Enuma Elish. Leslie doesn’t know everything (she says as much in this strip) but she’s willing to have her worldview broadened.
Basically, Joyce grew up with a highly reductionist understanding of the Bible and theology. Her parents may have thought they were doing her a favor home schooling her, but they really put her in a position where her worldview can’t stand up to basic scrutiny by someone who knows how to read.
Good, good, I’m not the only one who noted that.
Nobody thinks you’re wrong on that front, Roz. They just think you’re completely terrible, for a whole host of reasons unrelated to your argument.
I think both.
You think women shouldn’t be equals? I’d try to think of something witty, but I’m honestly just hoping I’m misunderstanding you.
I think you can always learn about anything, even a concept as simple as women becoming equals. So while what she stands for is correct, what she’s saying is wrong.
Women aren’t treated as equals in sport competitions — because it’s recognized that if they were made to participate as equals in the same competition as guys, very few women would ever achieve top athletic status at all. As a matter of pure biology, women are on average significantly weaker. And top women athletes are likewise neither as strong nor as fast as the top male athletes.
Now you may argue back “Well of course we don’t mean treated as *physically* equal, we just mean treated as morally, legally, politically, and intellectually equal.” and I’d agree with you — but are you sure that distinction is well understood? It often seems to me it’s really not, by lots and lots of people. For example, when your average young female heroine in some movie argues that she’s as capable of fighting as any man, this is seen as bold feminism, and it’s only some vile male chauvinist antagonist who will dispute the rather unrealistic claim.
“As a matter of pure biology, women are on average significantly weaker.”
Feel like maybe you should read this.
Because you are full of shit, my friend.
He’s not full of shit. Just uninformed. But that’s an interesting read. I’ve always wanted to believe women are as strong as men. I still must be forced to accept the very realistic realization, that more often than not, you hear of a woman being overpowered by a man. I feel that women can be as strong as men if not stronger than men. I just feel like at a certain extent, what he is saying is not false. No offence, Li. I do not wish to butt heads with you.
What he’s saying IS false, though, to all extents. 🙂
Women are socialized towards nonviolence, not actually physically inherently weak.
No worries and no heads butted!
So is anyone here actually an athelte? Because I have been a rock climber my entire life, and I have to say, in my experience, women’s athletic competitions should be separate from men’s. It’s true, any given woman can outpace any given man. It’s not like women are weak – I know a whole host of women who could kick my ass as climbers. But when you look at the very best of the best, the men are better because yes, they are better at building upper body strength. Now, “better at getting it” isn’t the same as “always have it”, but for the purposes of separating top level competitors it is. It should be noted though that climbing is a very upper body intensive sport, which is not as true of martial arts (the only sport refered to in that article).
Like the article I linked above said, strength doesn’t actually come from the upper body, so. No. 🙂
So you’re telling a life-long rock climber what he uses to climb rocks with based on an (very subjectively written) article about martial arts? Rethink that for a moment.
That sed, strength comes from DIFFERENT parts of your body, depending on what you’re doing with it. One’s ability to FIGHT and one’s STRENGTH are two VASTLY different things. The issue isn’t weather or not a woman can fight – it’s weather or not she’s athletically the equal of her male peers, and sheer differences in bulk kill that comparison in it’s crib for most sports. Few are the sports that we can have a equal footing in – marathon running is one I’d say is pretty egalitarian due to how it uses all aspects of one’s fitness. I’d venture to say ice skating would also qualify, as well as skateboarding; boxing and Muay Thai wouldn’t.
As for fighting… well: in a real fight the one that’s used to fighting and/or has a weapon will likely be the winner (note: both will be injured to some degree, that’s a foregone conclusion in any street fight). If both know how to fight… experience, location and fighting style and luck (say for example one of them just ate… he/she’s fucked) will determine the victor.
When it comes to lifting cars or truck wheels, men will always be ahead of women. (Because of their penis… get it? Ahead? Penis? … nuts’.)
Women will always be more flexible then men.
AND THEN THEY FUCK TOGETHER. THE END.
So if you were a gambling man, at what odds would you bet on any woman taking any UFC championship at any weight class in the next 20 years if the UFC were integrated?
Not a man at all, so.
But that’s a silly question, because obviously I’d take advantage of the fact that no one around me believed any woman could take the UFC championship to get the maximum cash payout when it happened.
In other words: yes, I think it could totally happen. Please read the article I linked in my comment. 😀
Sorry, no – feminist here, but I must respectfully disagree with your link. There’s no question that women can be/are as physically capable as men, but there is consistent evidence of an average 10% lower physical performance among females. Functionally the same for most purposes, but doesn’t jibe with actual record keeping. Check out the following:
Are you actually responding to my first comment, the not significantly biologically weaker comment? Because, dude.
Your link isn’t even slightly relevant to this point.
To further clarify:
1.) My link isn’t actually about sports competitions, it’s about strength in general. Though his general topic was sports, imho he only used it as an example to support his belief that women are inherently weaker than men. Thus my counterargument.
2.) Your article, taken at face value, says the best female athletes fall short of the best male athletes by around 10%. (Which, btw, is a very suspicious number. We gravitate towards 10%. A lot.) I wouldn’t call this a significant margin, even assuming it’s accurate. That there are no performance enhancing drugs involved, for example, or that they’re at least being used in an even distribution.
3.) Again, even taking that at complete face value, it would be ridiculous to interpret those results as “women can never be stronger than men”, because obviously an exceptional record-breaking female athlete who is 10% weaker than an exceptional record-breaking male athlete is going to be stronger than most of the male population.
4.) A good part of the link, which you should know since you read it, is about temperament: literally, women who learn how to fight despite all the discouragement they face in a society like ours are, pound for pound, meaner than their male counterparts. And that meanness is very relevant to how you perform in a fight. An analogy: the same dose of tranquilizers will knock out an elephant, slow down a hippo, and just make a rhino fightin’ mad. This — as well as women’s higher tolerance for pain — comes into play during a fight but not so much during a long distance running competition.
So, again, even taking that article at complete face value, my link and your link are apples vs. oranges. Hopefully I’ve already explained why I included it even though the original comment technically framed itself a discussion of women’s performance in sports.
Desegregating Olympic competitions may actually have a negative effect on female performance in them, though; several studies, I think, have shown that the same girls will perform significantly worse on math tests when there are boys in the room, and math — like athletic competition — is something we aren’t “supposed to” be good at. Competing against them indirectly in Olympic events might trigger something similar to what happens when they compete indirectly against boys in math.
Blah blah blah, more gender theories, blah.
Yep, responding to your link – sorry that it’s been days, been really sick and bedridden and only just caught up with everything today.
I believe that my link has bearing – my point is, given equivalent training, men have a very slight physical edge. That’s it. I don’t see that men would have greater mental strength or more powerful temperament, and I don’t see that women would have the greater edge against equally-trained men either. From experience, I’ve seen (and fought, actually) a lot of male and female fighters – and temperament didn’t vary by gender, only by amount of training and by personal predispositions. As for hips/center of gravity – do you actually have relevant data (e.g., men and women of comparable training and size punching dynonometers, with women hitting harder)? Because I have yet to see anything of that sort.
Physicality aside, your argument that women who train/fight/whichever-iteration-of-physical-activity would have to be more indomitable than men and therefore be stronger than comparable men assumes a lot. They (the women) would certainly shock a lot of people and that element of surprise would count for a lot in combat. But they won’t shock men who train, especially not those who train with the women. With that advantage gone, do you truly think that women would have a significantly better chance of winning against comparably-trained men a majority of the time?
It’s not my own post I was linking to. I’m at work (obviously being very responsible ATM, shh), but I can try to dig up what the post is referring to when I get home. I have seen tiny women take down big powerful men in wrestling matches though. It’s brutal.
Since the post isn’t mine, neither is the personal experience, and for the record the person who made the post is a dude. But it didn’t sound like assumptions to me. IIRC he talked about the female fighters he has met being scary as hell.
So, here’s the actual source link. The entire point of the tumblr is to help writers create more realistic fight scenes. Quotha:
“ObsidianMichi and StarkeRealm have over twenty years of combined experience in survival, weapons, and martial arts. She’s the black belt, he’s the Eagle Scout, they also write on the side.
“A third degree Black Belt and Eagle Scout share their tips to help authors create realistic fight scenes and characters.”
The whole tumblr is worth reading, but since they are themselves both first sources and do intercommunity research for their posts, I wouldn’t expect any links to studies from their posts.
I looked through the link, and while it is interesting, it really seems like they’re trading in one set of generalities for another. I’m simply not inclined to take things drawn from the writer’s experience at face value without hard data to back it up. Hence my linking to sports records in the first place; they’re the most unbiased illustrations of of direct comparison between men and women who physically train under comparable circumstances. From a fighting theory standpoint, I don’t dispute that female fighters often have different perspectives during training and sparring, and that they face different dangers on the street relative to men. I also know what they’re taught with respect to self-defense across a number of martial disciplines, and a lot of it has to do with subverting attacker preconceptions (both when standing upright and if taken to the ground) and delivering (surprise) attacks to very specific areas (eyes, throat, groin). Surprise and a go-for-the-throat mentality are very big advantages in physical conflicts. Thing is, if the attacker knows about these points, then a large part of that advantage gets taken away, and the strength that the bloggers were alluding to gets sapped.
As for very small, scary people, I know full well that size doesn’t necessarily matter. There a number of people I would never ever fight for real. The two most notable: 1)my current teacher, a 71-year old man, 120lbs (i.e., twice my age, and 85lbs lighter), who literally and consistently tosses me around like a rag doll, with one hand. Notable person 2)a former female teacher (again, tinier than me – don’t know how much – still impolite to ask a woman’s weight, no matter how much feminist progress has been made) who consistently fights men her size or bigger with comparable training to a standstill. Or she outright wins. Bonus: She’s an active cop (and not the desk jockey kind either). The point is, they’re both deadly, and their gender was/is absolutely irrelevant to how deadly they are.
I provided my sources. If you are further inclined, you are of course welcome to contact them and ask.
Didn’t see a lot of generalities going on though. Their argument, and mine, which again is actually supported by your link, is ONLY that women are not automatically physically weaker than men.
That doesn’t mean “all women are stronger than men”. Doesn’t even come close to meaning it. But it DOES mean that Aris Katsaris was full of shit when he tried to make an extremely tired point that women and men will never be treated equally because blah blah blah women are weaker.
I would not be surprised if he followed it up with “why can’t I hit a woman?”, which is best countered by: “You can’t actually hit anyone. Hitting people is a form of assault. Why do you want to legalize assault only against women?”
Okay, after this, I’m just going to give up. I don’t know if you’re intentionally or unintentionally missing my point, but here goes one last time, and from the top:
1)Aris Katsaris was talking about women being significantly physically weaker and slower than men, and that’s why they’re segregated in sports competitions, to which you
2)called him/her (making no assumptions here), and I quote, “full of shit”. You staked this claim on a repost of a blog entry written by someone who provided no empirical data, who stated that fighting women have an advantage over fighting men because of temperament and the ability to subvert social expectations.
3)Setting aside other commenters’ comments (because really, this is getting ridiculous enough as it with just the two of us having a back and forth), I then posted an article with data for a ton of Olympic records, ALL of which were in line with Aris’ original argument, which is that women, under comparable conditions of training and achievement, are physically slower and weaker than men. While that difference isn’t significant functionally, a consistent 10% difference would render direct head to head competitions between men and women largely meaningless (seriously, if you start off with a 10% handicap right off the bat in every sport, the odds of you winning will be that much lower). Which was his point in the first place.
4)You go back to talking about temperament, and I try to explain that temperament, as it’s related to sports and especially to fighting, is a function of personal predispositions and actual training.
5)And you bring it right back to somehow re-interpreting a 10% physical difference in favor of men as still somehow indicative of women not necessarily being weaker.
And you further argue against Aris’ original assertion (which is borne out by objective measures) and then further falsely attribute something to him/her.
Yeah, okay. I couldn’t wrap my head around your jumps in logic and after all this effort, it’s time for me to give up. Aris not responding was probably the best idea after all.
As provided by Sing, a 10% difference is a significant statistical difference. Hence empirical proof that men are stronger then women, given identical conditions.
Li, your agenda is made crystal clear when you start putting shit like “why can’t I hit a woman?” in Aris Katsaris’s mouth (it was clear long before, but that was just too obvious). Considering sed agenda and your liberal usage of strawman no actual debate has or can taken place here. Pitty but oh well, it’s the Internet, this sort of thing happens.
The problem with platitudes and talking points isn’t that they’re false (though they can be), it’s that they reduce complex issues into worthless, inane motivational tools that can be used to undermine the essence of what they are supposedly supporting.
“Women should be treated as equals”. Okay, just off the top of my head, what happens when we’re talking about things in which men and women are not equal? Are there things like that? What are they? Where do you draw the line? Would equality actually be fair? What is fair anyway?
From personal experience in my country, “Equality” is popular among women, except when it comes to conscription, or child support payments, or court biases toward child custody, injury compensation, and other rulings (to name a few).
I’m not playing a strawman faux-feminist card here. I’m pointing out that there are people like this. So when someone says they support “Equality” (or any other similar abstract, apparently simple concept), it doesn’t hurt to assume we all understand it differently.
Cultural feminism and some variants of third-wave feminism completely dismiss the whole idea of women as ‘equal’ to men, in the sense that they are in any way the same as men; instead, they celebrate women for their differences to men, and believe the these differences are not recognised the same way that male traits are recognised. The equality that they seek is equal recognition and appreciation, but not necessarily in the same context.
Queer theory (and other post-structuralist approaches), on the other hand, would probably contest that ‘male’ and ‘female’ aren’t really words with enough substance for one to be ‘equal’ to the other in the first place, since neither is fixed. (That’s queer theory, right? It’s not my specialty.)
‘Women should be treated as equals [of men]’ indicates a noble (or not stupid, anyway) sentiment, but it’s not a very clear statement, and it certainly doesn’t encapsulate the full range of approaches to the sentiment.
Equality is one of those things that sounds like it ought to be easily understood but turns out to have so many meanings and ways of defining it and achieving that the word becomes more of an umbrella term.
That’s before we even get to the concepts of ‘fair’, ‘good’ and ‘Feminism’.
Ambiguities in “Women should be treated as equals.”
1. What to you mean by “treated”? If a man beets up a woman should we treat her the way we treat a man who loses a fight? (Whatever way that is.)
2. What do you mean by “equals”? Should we not have programs specifically for homeless women because it’s giving women privileges over men?
3. What do you mean by “women”? Is a transwoman a woman in your definition? How about a transman? How about those people who refuse any gender?
4. What do you mean by “should be”? Should there be penalties for not treating women as equals? If so who will set these penalties? If there are no penalties, then it isn’t much of a rule is it?
5. What do mean by “as”? Do you mean that women really aren’t equals but should be treated like they are? Do you mean that we should use the idea of equality as only a guideline? Or do you really mean “Women and men are equals and should be treated that way.”
Delicious delicious specificity.
I suppose, and of course there are biological considerations to occasionally take into account, but for a wide majority of things “women should be treated as equals” is correct, at least in my opinion.
I’m not confident that Roz has a complete understanding of the topic, but it’s still certainly not a phrase to dispute in itself.
(Also, I appear to have become unreasonably defensive. Of course there is room to nuance the phrase; I simply assumed the worst when I saw somebody disputing it.)
Naw. I believe in equal rights for everyone. Except Wasps. I’m sorry but I’m very discriminatory against all manners of wasps.
Yeah, those guys are the worst. Always stingin’ things and layin’ their eggs in ’em.
I mean, bees are pretty cool. Don’t fuck with you if you don’t fuck with them. WASPS on the other hand, are always up in your grill trying to start some shit.
WASPS are penises, especially when on your FAAACE.
I think Willis is using Leslie to tell us that we ain’t seen nothing yet in regard to this story.
Leslie’s read ahead. She looks over his shoulder as he draws it out.
Every now and again she goes “Make me a little bustier” or “could you write in a higher pay wage?”
“So when am I and that cute senator going to hook up?”
“It’s in the works, just be patient.”
“…Okay, but I won’t pull maximum greatness until it happens.”
Speaking of reading ahead, I’m thinking we’re starting to see the threads that eventually lead to that surreal kickstarter backer preview…
I wonder how Joyce would react to this video about Noah’s Ark.
I have to assume that Willis is talking about Joyce and Walky in the alt-text. The alternative would be distressing.
Joyce and Walky? They would never get together. Not even in an alternate universe. Not even if they join an orginization and fight aliens. and especially not if they are laid off from aforementioned job.
I didn’t mean together. That would be absurd!
Well, make it a three-way with Dorothy, and MAYBE it could work…
Fight aliens? What nonsense is this? How could that be compelling in the slightest?
A good lay should show Roz that women should be treated as superior to man, not equals, and Lesly would learn that “Ambi-Dexterous” was the best episode.
Someone needs to be chronicling all these episodes.
And don’t forget the comics. The MGK titles are awesome.
I’ve got a running list of the titles mentioned. After tomorrow’s update, I’ll grab the info about them from these comments and make mini-synopses for them.
No, Totz is my hero.
Please ignore the tugging feeling on your leg.
D’aw… thanks, guys.
Good luck, Totz.
I’ve got 44 episodes, 1 TV movie and 1 live-action movie to conceptualize.
The MKG comics you mentioned, I’ll just add to the TV Tropes page now as being a spin-off of the cartoon.
You Sir are awesome !
And the best place to display this awesomeness is here : ! (Which was made by an other awesome reader.)
Wait – “There is no such thing as notability” includes properties that don’t exist?
I’m planning to make an “episode guide” page for the series. I’m not sure how to properly index it, though, so someone else may have to do that once it’s up.
Ohhh, the gauntlet has been thrown…
…you’d think Joyce would know better.
If you think Joyce would know better by now, then you don’t know Joyce very well.
Joyce does know better; look at her face. She’s well aware that she just begged the entire class to jump down her throat. And not in the good way.
“Leslie is awesome.”
“Leslie! What about that statement will Bibulb learn she’s wrong about?”
“She will learn I am REALLY awesome.”
Okay, Roz needs to taken down a few pegs.
Just because the generalized philosophy of equality is correct… there’s 1000 different sub-topics in feminism that need to be addressed and aren’t so clear-cut. It’s not enough to say, “Women need to be treated equally”… because it doesn’t say anything about HOW that needs to go about happening. Or the differing schools of thought within feminism that address these sub-issues. Or the History of why it’s all needed in the first place.
If the singular message was just a tagline, why would there be a class on it?
I’d argue, the ideology that nothing else is important but the equality is a valid philosophy in itself, however.
Sure, the ideology is great… but how many things are “ideal” in the world? There’s more logistics to actually getting it to work in the real-world.
Well, Walky is obviously serious because he’s Walky. Joyce, on the other hand, may actually be intentionally parodying what Roz said. It’s a bit of a jump from where she was in her last appearance, but she has been realizing that she was wrong about a lot of things, and may be starting to think for herself and not only question her other presuppositions, but point out to Roz that they all still have a lot to learn.
I hope I haven’t butchered the English language there.
It looks more like Joyce is serious about the question and that’s why she looks worried – because she’s expecting the answer is “the whole thing”.
Where did that even come from Roz? What indicated that Leslie might not believe in gender equality?
Cos everyone knows that lesbians are ‘ALL’ about kowtowing to the patriarchy. 😛
Well, Leslie clearly thinks women are hotter. If she believed in gender equality, she’d be bi.
Roz I agree with your idea but your tact leaves something to be desired.
“a good lay could probably change at least two minds here”
At the time of this comment, there are 98 (99, if you include this one) comments on this strip, and 41 of them are debating which episode of this (fictional) show is the best.
I love my fellow Dumbing of Age fans!
…okay, I only counted the initial thread and its branches. It’s closer to 50% of the comments.
Is anyone getting a “Panda Antivirus” popup page before they get here?
Nope, but then again I have Kaspersky Anti-Virus on my PC.
Leslie just talked about what she believes to be the best episode of a cartoon in the middle of her class.
When you said Leslie was awesome, you weren’t kidding.
PS, I went to the county fair today, saw a Transformers collection in the hobby exhibit, and immediately thought of you, Willis.
*hears discussion about Dexter and Monkey Master*
Did I miss something in my childhood? O.o I’ve never heard of this.
It’s the fictional TV show based on a fictional comic in the DoA universe. The one that Walky talks about in about half of his appearances.
Or, in other words, we’re huge dorks in the best possible way.
And very creative, I might add.
It’s a similar kind of cartoon show to the notorious “Catty and the Major”.
What nobody seems to be mentioning is that this is Gender Studies, not Feminism 101. To say that you completely understand the subject because you think women should be treated equally is like saying that you completely understand Computer Sciences because you think the internet is useful. In both cases, yeah, and we’ll be going into more detail on that, but we’ve got an entire course here.
Even if this was Feminism 101 “Women Should be treated equally” is probably still the computer science equivalent of knowing how to boot up windows. Just basic shit they expect you to have from the moment you walk in the door so you can actually get started.
Yeah, Roz is at a point where things will be disastrous if she doesn’t learn when to take a seat, listen, and learn.
Wow. If I didn’t know Joyce was… Joyce. That would have been the most epic of sarcastic responses.
My favorite part of this comic is the long, drawn-out, 70-comment arguments about episodes of a fictional television show that happen every time Monkey Master is mentioned.
…Never change, Willis fandom.
So after reading some of the comments, I guess this *is* all about the in-jokes. You lost me on this one. I guess I’m too casual a reader? O.o
The joke here is that the Dexter & Monkey Master show does not exist. As in, it’s not only not a real TV show (instead being an in-universe one within this comic), but it also hasn’t been described in anywhere near the level of detail being described by the commenters here. We have some episode titles, some in-universe posters and the like, and maybe the odd mention of an event or two from one or another of the episodes, but we haven’t even been shown so much as a screenshot of it, much less a depiction of a whole episode.
So yeah – the commenters here are basically blowing enough smoke out their asses to achieve escape velocity, solely for the sake of being silly. Whatever floats their boat.
…you could try having fun with it and not being so dismissive and condescending, you know.
It’s more fun to enjoy stuff than to refer to it as ‘blowing smoke out [our] asses’…
All right, so I went back and read all the parts with Leslie again. This little squabble between her and Roz still feels inappropriate. It seems too hostile for the relatively amicable interactions involving the two of them. At least, the ones we’ve been exposed to.
Or maybe I’m just imagining things.
Calling it now: Walky insta-crush on his prof.
So much love for Leslie, I love that you made her a teacher here it suits her very very well
Okay, so tonight, after Friday’s DOA strip updates, I’ll be creating mini-synopses/recaps for all the named “Dexter and Monkey Master” episodes so far.
I’m going to be using details from the comments here and the existing TV Tropes page.
If you have any specific additional details you want to throw in, this is the thread to do it.
I’ll list the names of the episodes in the following few comments so nothing gets tagged as spam.
– Time’s Short/Time Travel Trouble (two-parter):
There’s plenty on TV Tropes for these, so I don’t need anything further.
– Wedding Smashers:
Same as the above. I’ve got enough to work with.
(Sorry, meant to thread the other copy of this comment, but screwed up.)
– Taxing Taxonomy
– Dodge Brawlers
– Recess Monkey
– Major Ivan’s School of Pain
– The Sword of Dextrose
– Chimpy Blimpy Blues
– Schooly McCools
There is little to no information about these in the thread. I’ve got ideas about them, but I’d love for the people who thought them up to give some of their own thoughts.
Next up are two multi-episode storylines.
First is the “Planet of the Monkeys” 3-parter:
– Planet of the Monkeys
– Beneath the Planet of the Monkeys
– Escape from the Planet of the Monkeys
(Names taken from the first 3 “Planet of the Apes” films, obviously.)
Now, Joe thought the existence of the 3-parter up, so I’d most like his input on the plot. Everyone else is welcome as well, of course.
Second is Aizat’s Kaiju-inspired series:
– Clash of the Simians
– Monkey Master vs. MechaGorilla Kong
– MechaGorilla Kong Reloaded
– Giant Monkeys All-Out Melee
– Giant Monkeys All-Out Rumble
– Giant Monkeys All-Out Brawl
– World’s Strongest Apes
I’m planning on having these spread over the course of a few seasons, and I know that MGKR is before Rumble, which means MMvsMGK must be before it as well, so I approximated an order in this comment.
There are big sparks for a few of those up there, but the whole series is mostly Aizat’s brainchild, with some input from me, so I’d weigh his contributions most heavily. Everyone’s welcome to add their thoughts, of course!
This set is ones I’ve thought up, so I already know what I’m planning to do with them:
– The Big Cheese and the Stick of Destiny
– Trukk vs. Monkey
(I’m including your contribution, bookwormdalek, don’t worry!)
– Banana Bash
– Rude & Crude
– S.M.A. Seeks Love
– Dexter and Monkey Master: Temple of Triumph
Final set, those that have enough of a concept, or the title inspires enough, for me to build them up:
– This Man, This Monkey
– Ape, Not Monkey
– Double Trouble
– Candy Kong
– Cinnamon Simian Synonym
– Gorilla Gone Gooey
– Dexter’s Dad
– Dexter’s Grandson
– DOA (Dexter of Age)
– Darkness Reigns
– Micro Monkey
– Horror Pasta
– The Great Gender Bender
– Jet Stallion
– ‘Tis the Treason
– O Monkey Master, Where Art Thou?
– Requiem for Monkey Master
“‘Tis the Treason” — Dexter analyzes Santa Claus’ job description and comes to the conclusion that he’s a Russian/Cuban/Icelandic spy, with Monkey Master remarking that he’s just bitter because he never got that pony. After Dexter razes Santa’s workshop, he learns that he’s actually an agent of the American government, and to avoid being locked up for treason him and Monkey Master have to be take the job of being part-time elves. Commercialism and political satire abound!
These are loosely mentioned concepts that I’m going to build up as well:
– M. Night Shyamalan’s live-action crapfest of a movie.
– The MKG comics (I’m assuming these are meant to be a series based off the show, not the original “Head Alien” comics that the show was based on.)
– Aras Pabedinskas’s ’80s movie concept: “NOOOO! Someone, quick, SABOTAGE THE LAUNCH! THERE’s A BOMB ON THAT SHIP AND IF IT HITS WATER IT WILL EXPLODE!”
Is the TVTropes page gone?
If Ambi-Dextrous involves him trying to make a second claw hand and refusing to admit that claws aren’t good for everything, that’d be amazing.
Your wish is granted!
And nothing at all that the prof just said actually changes the postulate that someone could teach herself this classes material.
When exactly did autodidacticism come up in the conversation? Roz claimed to not need to learn anything.
“Let me guess Roz, you could teach yourself this class?”
“Oh, so you’ve met me”
This comic (and the ones that follow) all are supposedly responding to this assertion. Yet instead of actually addressing that the class is worthless, instead we see a long lecture about the need to keep learning things and meeting people.
no san diego comic-con, the sorries
Who should get doodled inside Dumbing of Age Book 5?
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