I seem to recall Willis mentioned Ethan’s mother was a Mizrahi Jewish woman, with descent from the Middle East. Wouldn’t that also make Ethan mixed race or am I missing something?
So perhaps motives that are not in your face. Events and movements that might not be easily noticed, because: not in the immediate vicinity? Sounds about right. Kinda softens the idea, not that someone is hiding something, just that someone is moving things that might effect you, but away from eyes, like making an ambush. Although I dont think that is how Yentas work.
@nobilis–It is not relevant what the original Latin used to mean. A word derived centuries ago from a Latin root does not necessarily mean anything similar today. It may, or it may not. Words don’t have any inherent meaning; they only mean what people intend and understand them to mean at the time of use. Sorry, but your comment triggered my Language Nerd Mode!
To paraphrase Bubbles re wingpersons, if your relationshiping requires close air support, something has gone wrong. (Old military maxim: when the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support (CAS).)
“Close air support covereth a multitude of sins.”
“Close air support and friendly fire should be easier to tell apart.”
“Don’t expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.”
Don’t we already have a suspiciously similar substitute Ethan? Also, I’m pretty sure if she continues this path that he’s gonna end up hooking up with Danny.
I’ve always enjoyed that moment, as it reinforces that Jake’s strange views are in part because Gina warped his perspectives by being herself, since they’re basically siblings.
I like Joyce and its good to see her growth but damn she needs to learn some empathy and quick, its almost to the stage where I went to see her get hurt romantically so she can finally understand just how bad shes being
No, as in someone she’s into as a whole person. Ethan was a safe person, a tall, broad safe man but did she really know much about him his interests, his hobbies. Jacob on the other hand is someone who is tall, broad and handsome but she knows about his hopes, his dreams, she knows what he’s like on the inside. If they were to get together then he broke up with her she’d get a taste of what its like
Joyce being hurt romantically won’t do much good. What she needs is someone to try to set her up with someone without her permission. Preferably someone younger than the main cast will do the setting up.
O dang there was also the time she believed she found a nice Christian boy only for him to try to rape her, which made Ethan’s revelation seem like good news at first.
Is that movie even about breakfast at all? I saw a clip of a guy, talking about his crappy dad or something, and then I left to go eat somewhere, so I didn’t get to see more.
People have also compared Power Rangers (2017) to it, so I have no idea what to expect.
i don’t think about how Long this series goes and how slow things seem to change often, but yknow. I realize I’ve been waiting for I think over a year and a half for Joyce to get a grip over her bullshit about meddling in peoples love lives and shipping real people and appointing herself the arbiter of her friends personal lives and a myriad of other reasons, and I keep expecting that moment to come up (especially most recently with the Jacob storyline which I still get annoyed by) and then it never really does. And like this is a pretty benign example but only because Walky’s already dating Amber, its not like this behavior’s okay regardless.
Not really a rag on Willis since he’s doing the best any person really can with the format he’s got, but it’s a little existentially fraught to consider. Suddenly it’s hard to care.
While completely agreeing with BBCC’s point, I have to point out that existential fraughtness and the human condition are rather intimately related, particularly in our local cluster of universes where the drama tag has been pulled.
The only other interpretation that springs to my mind is that you’re saying you have a short attention span. Which if true is, you know, okay. If it’s something else and I’m still not getting it, I apologise.
It’s a reasonable complaint and one that’s come up before. It’s pretty much inevitable with a story like this, told at a pace this slow. This much depth, this many characters, character development can take years of real time to play out (and still be unreasonably fast in comic time.)
I mean, I think it’s worth it, but if it doesn’t work for everyone, that’s not surprising.
Might read better in book form or binge read every year or so for some.
I KNOW Joyce is straight but you can’t just say stuff like panel 3 while making the face you do in panel 3 and not expect people to think you wanna bang Dorothy. Just get it out of your system Joyce.
But she’d have to MARRY Dorothy to bang her and her religion PROBABLY doesn’t believe in f/f marriage (or, for that matter, in divorce in case she’s actually straight).
Since people are rarely at the extreme ends of the Kinsey scale, I feel like every straight person gets one pass.
That’s how I found out I was bi. I was giving myself a lot of passes
She could just be what I used to be: desperately hanging on to a fantasy of being what she believes her parents want her to be.
(That’s how it took me until a someone of the same gender as my AGAB kissed me to figure out I was bi… And how it took me so much longer to figure out I’m trans. Moral of the story cishetnormativity stinks)
I imagine you’ve basically got it, just expand ‘parents’ to ‘community’ for Joyce. She came to college defining herself as a ‘Good Christian Girl’ , with very specific rules about what sort of person it was okay for her to be and an enormous amount of pressure to not even consider that she could be anything else.
It’s taken all her experiences in the comic so far just to get her to start critically analyzing the community that raised her to think like this and to consider that maybe she doesn’t fit in perfectly with their idea of who she should be.
I see Joyce has mastered the intricacies of ‘Hammerspace’. No pockets, no purse, but she is able to produce both a hairbrush and a magic marker upon demand.
Joyce this is supposed to be a webcomic about a homeschooled girl rising above the toxic ideology she was raised into by her inherently good and empathetic nature, STOP BEING SHITTY
Joyce, sweet naive fundie Joyce. First, youy will get a surprise about Walky and Amber. Second, it’s obvious you idolize Dorothy (which is toxic), and the people she dates aren’t your concern unless they are assholes (Walky is an asshole, but not to Dorothy). Under different conditions you would be seen as having an obvious gay crush on Dorothy. Dammit, Willis, I need a printed non canon book full of Joyce x Dorothy!!!!
Actually, I’m not sure if you mean Joyce believes Walky is gifted with an aberrant anatomy or if you mean Joyce believes that Walky’s anatomy is ready to be played with by someone who is suitably immature. But both of them manage to sound bad.
Honestly my point was that Joyce tries to believe that Walky has no sexuality and is not capable of doing sexuality because that would mean she’d have to acknowledge that he did hanky panky with Dotty and that is too much for her to bear. As they said about Victorian times “People do not exist below the waistline”
Honestly, I really want to see her realize that she pushed two people into pre-marital hanky panky XD The religious breakdown she’d have would be glorious.
“I don’t want to lose my limbs! I didn’t even hold my newborn children yet? Maybe if I’ll wrap around them with my whole body it will feel like a hug?”
I’d like to see the Joyce Brown Relationship Matrix! Who all does it encompass? Does she have ships for everyone on her floor? Everyone she knows? Or is it actually literally just shipping for Walky to keep him away from Dorothy? I would not be surprised at that.
I know Joyce is trying but I think that the shirt would either be insulting or worthless.
I mean your usually not going to get much traction with a fan of Pokemon by wearing a shirt with the words strange creatures.
*reads alt-text*
Damnit… You do know, Mr. Willis, that for some of us you saying “don’t ask about” or “don’t think about” forces our minds to some questionable places. Hence I now must ask “how are her thighs not scratchef to hell snd back.”
On the one hand, I’d be delighted if we ever hit a plotline where Joyce figures out she’s not entirely straight.
On the other hand, sweet zombie jegus that might be a bit of a soul-punch Fuck You to Becky – even if she’s fundamentally moved on to the wondrous Dina.
“So you are apparently into girls, just not me. Cool, cool, cool, coolcoolcoolcoolcool…”
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thus, she made a mixed race Ethan
… you’re not wrong.
yuuup
Oh gods, now I can’t unsee it.
I CAN’T UNSEE IT!
Yeah, same here
Joyce is suddenly attracted to Walky and has no idea why.
Oh geez… Joyce and Walky, could you even IMAGINE? Willis could make a whole comic just about THAT relationship
What would he even call that comic?
Mutant Pair Arrangers!
It’s Joyce?
not enough kosher beef
how ’bout beefcake
Joyce is wise in the ways of seduction.
I mean i was gonna say…. but then i figured maybe i wasn’t the only one who thought this…
A *straight* mixed race Ethan, that’s the important part. Not as beefy though, -2 points
I seem to recall Willis mentioned Ethan’s mother was a Mizrahi Jewish woman, with descent from the Middle East. Wouldn’t that also make Ethan mixed race or am I missing something?
I was hesitant to say “brown Ethan”
ha, knew it. Ulterior motives are fun. And dear god, that looks like the way his mom would dress him.
Which, considering his mom, means it’s terrible and must immediately be rectified.
Are they still ulterior motives when they’re openly stated?
I am not asking to be pedantic or anything, I legitimately am unsure.
“Ulterior” usually means “hidden”… although I suppose it could just mean a motive beyond the immediately apparent one?
They WERE ulterior, until she stated them just now.
Doesn’t really matter. I’m just being silly. 😛
“ulterior” is Latin and means “further away”, “further”, “additional”. So I guess ulterior motives don’t need to be hidden?
So perhaps motives that are not in your face. Events and movements that might not be easily noticed, because: not in the immediate vicinity? Sounds about right. Kinda softens the idea, not that someone is hiding something, just that someone is moving things that might effect you, but away from eyes, like making an ambush. Although I dont think that is how Yentas work.
@nobilis–It is not relevant what the original Latin used to mean. A word derived centuries ago from a Latin root does not necessarily mean anything similar today. It may, or it may not. Words don’t have any inherent meaning; they only mean what people intend and understand them to mean at the time of use. Sorry, but your comment triggered my Language Nerd Mode!
The motives beyond the PROXIMATE motives?
Ask Mike.
I assume that’s why Walky’s putting up with him. He’s well-trained.
*with it.
I know I say it every given opportunity, but I fucking hate the Walkerton parents.
Why do people keep trying to hook Walky up with people he’s already dating?
Probably because he keeps his relationships secret and his friends all underestimate his romantic ability and assume he needs a wingman.
If you’re Walky’s wingman chances are you’ll lay a goose egg in the win column.
And we all remember what happens to wingmen when geese are involved.
o7 Never forget
Particularly if your wingman is named Goose.
To paraphrase Bubbles re wingpersons, if your relationshiping requires close air support, something has gone wrong. (Old military maxim: when the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support (CAS).)
“Old”? I mean, I guess Schlock Mercenary _has_ been running for a while now.
Just gonna’ add this point here…
“Close air support covereth a multitude of sins.”
“Close air support and friendly fire should be easier to tell apart.”
“Don’t expect the enemy to cooperate in the creation of your dream engagement.”
All of these kinda’ fit in some way.
Because it’s a running joke in this cartoon meant to amuse us
Another very good reason.
I’m guessing both Billie and Joyce think Walky can’t get a girlfriend without help.
Let’s be charitable, Joyce could just think that Walky will get a girlfriend FASTER with her help.
I enjoy listening to Music Band while I discuss the minutiae of Robots.
I enjoy Ironic Reference to 1980s Movie.
I enjoy reference to Rorschach from 80s Comic Book.
And 00s movie, I guess.
I enjoy joke about Fast Food Restaurant.
I enjoy eating at Arby’s. Sometimes.
I was just reading QC earlier, you just described basically the whole comic.
The music band you should be listening to is Kraftwerk!
Translation in english: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_8Pma1vHmw
That’s what i thought when i read the comment you replied to 😀
@alt-text Or where she put the hoodie…
She transmuted the hoodie into the hairbrush and marker.
This makes the most sense, as it’s in keeping with the Law of Conservation of Mass.
Joyce being the Triangle-Smiled Alchemist, of course.
-three years later-
Joe: JOYCE! How could you?! this is forbidden alchemy! The Ultimate Taboo!
Joyce: It had to be this way, can’t you see? I couldn’t lose my license.
Danny/Snoop Hybrid(who in addition to Snoop’s fur pattern has dalmation spots): B-Bro? Bro? What’s wrong, Joe? Why are you crying?
She carries the brush around in case Sal ever agrees to let her brush her hair. Well. She brushed Walky’s hair. In her mind she imagines it’s Sal.
One day she’ll agree!
Or she’ll just be sleeping and not wake up in time to stop her.
Or so Joyce tells herself.
I don’t know what’s worse:
1) how creepy that second paragraph is; or
2) how likely it is that Joyce believes that’s totally appropriate.
No, the worst thing is how badly Joyce spelled garbage. Garbage doesn’t begin with an R.
Look, just changing the first letter to G wouldn’t make that word spell garb…age…
Carry on.
It’s actually a reference to this strip: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/crash/
I choose to believe Joyce was kidding because I do not ENJOY waking up at night screaming.
Or Walky could just grow out his hair.
And the marker is probably her Whiteboard Dingdong sharpie.
The evil-ish Joyce grin… It’s too powerful. Too adorable. (Yeah, it’s a questionable motive at best. But… the cute…)
That third panel face.
Wow, yeah. There’s a bit of conniving going on.
That’s getting close to the Grinch’s evil grin.
It’s a bit Anti-Joyce.
Don’t we already have a suspiciously similar substitute Ethan? Also, I’m pretty sure if she continues this path that he’s gonna end up hooking up with Danny.
That would be very interesting…
Especially because Walky seems to possess a good measure of fragile masculinity and insecure defensiveness of his sexuality.
He’s got some hangups about masculinity, but not really much defensiveness about his sexuality.
I’d pay for that slipshine twice
Jake: “You carry a hairdryer in your purse?”
Gina: “Of course. I’m not an animal.”
Sorry, Willis, you’re the one who started the Brooklyn-99 references.
Is it a reference if you’re literally just providing a cited quote from the show?
She always carries a hairbrush around. You never know when Sal could finally say yes.
Or when Joyce could hover over her while she sleeps without waking her.
Either they make small but powerful hairdryers nowadays or she has a huge-ass bag.
I’ve always enjoyed that moment, as it reinforces that Jake’s strange views are in part because Gina warped his perspectives by being herself, since they’re basically siblings.
Is that a shadow at the center of Walky’s shirt, or a stain?
It wasn’t there before so it’s probably a shadow from a fold or wrinkle in the shirt.
I believe that is the line of Walky’s pecs through the shirt and on the last panel, yeah, it’s a shadow.
You know, I can get behind the Robots shirt.
I want one.
I like Joyce and its good to see her growth but damn she needs to learn some empathy and quick, its almost to the stage where I went to see her get hurt romantically so she can finally understand just how bad shes being
Do you mean hurt romantically as in her boyfriend telling her he’s only dating her so he can stop being gay, I bet that would be pretty fucked up
No, as in someone she’s into as a whole person. Ethan was a safe person, a tall, broad safe man but did she really know much about him his interests, his hobbies. Jacob on the other hand is someone who is tall, broad and handsome but she knows about his hopes, his dreams, she knows what he’s like on the inside. If they were to get together then he broke up with her she’d get a taste of what its like
Joyce being hurt romantically won’t do much good. What she needs is someone to try to set her up with someone without her permission. Preferably someone younger than the main cast will do the setting up.
O dang there was also the time she believed she found a nice Christian boy only for him to try to rape her, which made Ethan’s revelation seem like good news at first.
You know, I never really got how Walky was hot (looks like my best friend from high school when we were freshmen), but he’s working that hairstyle
I think if he tweaks it just a little bit more he could make that work.
Obviously Joyce has a Mary Poppins bag of holding.
It’s actually something known as ‘hammerspace’.
Oh so *that’s* the term for this fictional phenomenon. Neat.
Joyce carries a sharpie in case she needs to draw emergency ding dongs
Worst makeover sequence ever.
Fellow commenter Stephen should provide the background music.
The Breakfast Club.
I guess that’s not really a “sequence” but still. Fuck that part of the movie. Actually it doesn’t really hold up in general.
Is that movie even about breakfast at all? I saw a clip of a guy, talking about his crappy dad or something, and then I left to go eat somewhere, so I didn’t get to see more.
People have also compared Power Rangers (2017) to it, so I have no idea what to expect.
The main comparison is that both are largely character pieces about teenage delinquents and finding comradeship in other members of fringe society.
Hmm… How much morphing is in The Breakfast Club?
Um… the above-mentioned makeover? That’s about it, I think…
It has absolutely nothing to do with breakfast. Actually I don’t know why it’s called that.
I had to immediately send the last two panels to an internet stranger.
Also, changing the word on his shirt gives this meme potential.
Okay, I apparently can’t figure out HTML tonight, so here:
https://imgur.com/a/Ks81KJH
Nailed it!
Good stuff.
oh no, this is too realistic
ha ha ha ha ha
If he puts the hoodie back on and zips it will he be Robots in disguise?
Since I’m old, it’s mandatory that I ask if this is like Lucy in disguise with diamonds.
Ouch!
i don’t think about how Long this series goes and how slow things seem to change often, but yknow. I realize I’ve been waiting for I think over a year and a half for Joyce to get a grip over her bullshit about meddling in peoples love lives and shipping real people and appointing herself the arbiter of her friends personal lives and a myriad of other reasons, and I keep expecting that moment to come up (especially most recently with the Jacob storyline which I still get annoyed by) and then it never really does. And like this is a pretty benign example but only because Walky’s already dating Amber, its not like this behavior’s okay regardless.
Not really a rag on Willis since he’s doing the best any person really can with the format he’s got, but it’s a little existentially fraught to consider. Suddenly it’s hard to care.
In Joyce’s defence, Walky agreed to her meddling this time (probably because he’s already dating Amber)
While completely agreeing with BBCC’s point, I have to point out that existential fraughtness and the human condition are rather intimately related, particularly in our local cluster of universes where the drama tag has been pulled.
neither of these are what im talking about
The only other interpretation that springs to my mind is that you’re saying you have a short attention span. Which if true is, you know, okay. If it’s something else and I’m still not getting it, I apologise.
you come across as more condescending than you might realize.
On the contrary, I suspect Clif intended to be exactly that condescending.
(and, in the spirit of full disclosure and maximum clarity, so do I.)
It’s a reasonable complaint and one that’s come up before. It’s pretty much inevitable with a story like this, told at a pace this slow. This much depth, this many characters, character development can take years of real time to play out (and still be unreasonably fast in comic time.)
I mean, I think it’s worth it, but if it doesn’t work for everyone, that’s not surprising.
Might read better in book form or binge read every year or so for some.
I KNOW Joyce is straight but you can’t just say stuff like panel 3 while making the face you do in panel 3 and not expect people to think you wanna bang Dorothy. Just get it out of your system Joyce.
But she’d have to MARRY Dorothy to bang her and her religion PROBABLY doesn’t believe in f/f marriage (or, for that matter, in divorce in case she’s actually straight).
One can be a straight girl and still wanna bang Dorothy, right?
In the words of Esurance, “that’s not how it works; that’s not how any of this works.”
Billie would agree. It’s normal. Everybody likes girls sometimes.
But Joyce is just a friend of Dorothy.
Since people are rarely at the extreme ends of the Kinsey scale, I feel like every straight person gets one pass.
That’s how I found out I was bi. I was giving myself a lot of passes
She could just be what I used to be: desperately hanging on to a fantasy of being what she believes her parents want her to be.
(That’s how it took me until a someone of the same gender as my AGAB kissed me to figure out I was bi… And how it took me so much longer to figure out I’m trans. Moral of the story cishetnormativity stinks)
I imagine you’ve basically got it, just expand ‘parents’ to ‘community’ for Joyce. She came to college defining herself as a ‘Good Christian Girl’ , with very specific rules about what sort of person it was okay for her to be and an enormous amount of pressure to not even consider that she could be anything else.
It’s taken all her experiences in the comic so far just to get her to start critically analyzing the community that raised her to think like this and to consider that maybe she doesn’t fit in perfectly with their idea of who she should be.
Might not be a coincidence Joyce has this same look around Jacob and Raidah.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/wrong-3/
There are some similarities here that are becoming harder to ignore.
…His hair actually looks cute like that, I hope it stays.
I really like how Willis works in character design tweaks like this smoothly into the story (like Dorothy’s new bangs, and Ruth’s shorter hair).
I see Joyce has mastered the intricacies of ‘Hammerspace’. No pockets, no purse, but she is able to produce both a hairbrush and a magic marker upon demand.
It was mentioned further up, she keeps the hairbrush on her in case Sal decides to let her brush her hair.
And the marker is her Whiteboard Dingdong Sharipe.
Brushing Walky’s hair might be the closest she’ll ever get to brushing Sal’s, come to think of it
Joyce this is supposed to be a webcomic about a homeschooled girl rising above the toxic ideology she was raised into by her inherently good and empathetic nature, STOP BEING SHITTY
Well, I mean, she’s only been there a matter of weeks…
She’s gonna end up drawing a dingdong on his shirt.
Joyce, sweet naive fundie Joyce. First, youy will get a surprise about Walky and Amber. Second, it’s obvious you idolize Dorothy (which is toxic), and the people she dates aren’t your concern unless they are assholes (Walky is an asshole, but not to Dorothy). Under different conditions you would be seen as having an obvious gay crush on Dorothy. Dammit, Willis, I need a printed non canon book full of Joyce x Dorothy!!!!
Did- did she just make Walky into Ethan?
Amber’s first known crush and Joyce’s ex.
Man now this is gonna be awkward as all hell. Well awkward-er anyways when they get to Amber.
Yes, it will completely distract Amber while she’s explaining how she once stabbed his sister.
I’m so glad somebody else saw that D:
I think Walky looked better before Joyce decided to make him look “presentable”.
Joyce… seriously. Your top romantic achievement is being a gay guy’s beard. You don’t get to give out romantic advice.
Alternatively, it gives her a unique and fresh perspective.
Mhm, maybe she should go help Danny.
Given how casual and limited Joyce’s knowledge of Amber is, she’s showing an interesting level of insight into her, isn’t she? XD
“He is just a life-sized barbie doll to her, isn’t he?”
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-9-comic/01-flyin-to-the-red/retire/
Ken Doll actually, and as far as Joyce is concerned Walky has barbie doll anatomy if you know what I mean.
Actually, I’m not sure if you mean Joyce believes Walky is gifted with an aberrant anatomy or if you mean Joyce believes that Walky’s anatomy is ready to be played with by someone who is suitably immature. But both of them manage to sound bad.
Honestly my point was that Joyce tries to believe that Walky has no sexuality and is not capable of doing sexuality because that would mean she’d have to acknowledge that he did hanky panky with Dotty and that is too much for her to bear. As they said about Victorian times “People do not exist below the waistline”
I thought it was a reference to her earlier description of downstairs boy areas.
Dammit, forgot to put the link in quotes./
Yup, no one exists below waistline.
That would make it awfully hard to walk.
oh god
they are going to do it.
and joyce is going to get a complex thinking she made two people do it.
Honestly, I really want to see her realize that she pushed two people into pre-marital hanky panky XD The religious breakdown she’d have would be glorious.
“Am I the Serpent?”
“I don’t want to lose my limbs! I didn’t even hold my newborn children yet? Maybe if I’ll wrap around them with my whole body it will feel like a hug?”
Hey, I get it! And being Joyce, she would indeed hug too tight.
I know it’s Walky, but goddamnit why would you ruin his shirt?
She only got to it before wave after wave of Nachitos did.
Or long standing barbecue sauce stain.
“COOL DUDE”
Now he just needs basketball shoulder things.
One day, Joyce… one day, you will be forced to realize how much of an ignorant imbecile you are when it comes to matters of romance.
One day.
And to matters of everything else, if we’re being honest.
But she’s our ignorant imbecile.
She’s kinda already started to realize that.
I’d like to see the Joyce Brown Relationship Matrix! Who all does it encompass? Does she have ships for everyone on her floor? Everyone she knows? Or is it actually literally just shipping for Walky to keep him away from Dorothy? I would not be surprised at that.
I know Joyce is trying but I think that the shirt would either be insulting or worthless.
I mean your usually not going to get much traction with a fan of Pokemon by wearing a shirt with the words strange creatures.
Debuting the latest DoA merch Tee Shirt design, I see. 😛
I kinda want to see that matrix illustrated just to see how wild it is
now you know how Sal felt, Walky
*reads alt-text*
Damnit… You do know, Mr. Willis, that for some of us you saying “don’t ask about” or “don’t think about” forces our minds to some questionable places. Hence I now must ask “how are her thighs not scratchef to hell snd back.”
Joyce In Panel 3 reminds me of anti Joyce from the old walkyverse for some reason
On the one hand, I’d be delighted if we ever hit a plotline where Joyce figures out she’s not entirely straight.
On the other hand, sweet zombie jegus that might be a bit of a soul-punch Fuck You to Becky – even if she’s fundamentally moved on to the wondrous Dina.
“So you are apparently into girls, just not me. Cool, cool, cool, coolcoolcoolcoolcool…”
Wait does Walky not look….WAY MORE LIKE ETHAN in the last panel?? Maybe Joyce is better at it than she thinks
Wait, I think you just discovered Joyce’s superpower, she can make anybody look like Ethan.