Dumbing of Age Book Eleven

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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September 28, 2023

Nice

by David M Willis on February 15, 2011 at 12:01 am
  • 03 - Men are from Beck, Women are from Clark

└ Tags: joe, joyce

Discussion (177) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Jen Aside
    Jen Aside
    February 15, 2011 at 12:01 am | #

    As a consolation prize, getting punched in the face repeatedly doesn’t detract from your delectable manly scent!

    • David Herbert
      David Herbert
      February 15, 2011 at 12:13 am | #

      And it can increase it.

      • Azumango
        Azumango
        February 15, 2011 at 1:09 am | #

        MUUUUUUSK

        • Hinoron
          Hinoron
          December 10, 2012 at 10:09 pm | #

          more like bloooooood

          • Josh
            Josh
            July 25, 2013 at 11:45 am | #

            #BLOODWOLVES

            • DFS
              DFS
              November 10, 2013 at 11:45 am | #

              #Lustwolves

            • Zekiah2
              Zekiah2
              February 25, 2014 at 4:45 am | #

              Is that. . . Penny?

  2. Fissioninferno
    Fissioninferno
    February 15, 2011 at 12:04 am | #

    I think she might have PERVERSE SEXUAL LUST

    • Mirenheart
      Mirenheart
      February 15, 2011 at 1:44 am | #

      Reverse Textural Crust

      • alicemacher
        alicemacher
        February 15, 2011 at 4:47 am | #

        Not if she bathes and douches regularly.

        • darkond2100
          darkond2100
          February 15, 2011 at 11:20 am | #

          Douche means shower. The definition doesn’t even have to involve a cooch.

          • Pagannerd
            Pagannerd
            February 15, 2011 at 5:16 pm | #

            Douche is French for shower. Definitely has a different meaning in English, Darkond.

          • Rezby
            Rezby
            March 6, 2011 at 3:44 pm | #

            @Pagannerd,
            It’s also Russian for shower.
            Pretty sure it’s just general European Non-English for shower, but don’t quote me on that.

      • Echoloco
        Echoloco
        July 20, 2011 at 9:28 pm | #

        Inverse Celestial Nuts

  3. Peace in Our Time
    Peace in Our Time
    February 15, 2011 at 12:06 am | #

    They are so going to bang

    • Penthesilea
      Penthesilea
      February 15, 2011 at 7:06 am | #

      I am weirdly supportive of this.

  4. Trae Dorn
    Trae Dorn
    February 15, 2011 at 12:07 am | #

    Aaaaand begin Joe’s secret crush on Joyce.

    • David Herbert
      David Herbert
      February 15, 2011 at 1:59 am | #

      Hooray for Stockholm Syndrome.

  5. cappadocius
    cappadocius
    February 15, 2011 at 12:07 am | #

    Crazy bongoes be crazy.

    • addude
      addude
      February 15, 2011 at 12:21 am | #

      true dat

    • NF
      NF
      February 15, 2011 at 12:44 am | #

      She’s just really immature, and cannot productively cope with the real world not meeting her expectations.

      • addude
        addude
        February 15, 2011 at 12:56 am | #

        Just like me and most of the people in my english class

        • Jack
          Jack
          February 15, 2011 at 6:26 am | #

          Engrish, you mean.

          • darkond2100
            darkond2100
            February 15, 2011 at 11:22 am | #

            What is it that EVERYONE at Universal Studios Hollywood speaks Engrish? With the exception of black guys who speak Spanglish.

      • Magnus369
        Magnus369
        September 26, 2011 at 6:43 pm | #

        And here I thought what she did showed massive amounts of maturity. She wasn’t exactly sorry he got the hell beat out of him, but she wasn’t going to act like a massive temper-tantrum throwing brat the entire time.

  6. alicemacher
    alicemacher
    February 15, 2011 at 12:08 am | #

    B’aww. So bittersweet…

  7. Crimson Magic
    Crimson Magic
    February 15, 2011 at 12:09 am | #

    Annnd there’s Joyce’s saving throw!

    • NF
      NF
      February 15, 2011 at 12:34 am | #

      It’s a 1.

      • Madock345
        Madock345
        February 15, 2011 at 1:12 am | #

        But it was an acting check (cute) and joyce has a +12 when playing innocent.

        • Mirenheart
          Mirenheart
          February 15, 2011 at 1:45 am | #

          Mike’s Curse lowers all positive checks by 10.

          • Black Drazon
            Black Drazon
            February 15, 2011 at 3:11 am | #

            Footnote: Mike’s Curse may sometimes be his fist, again.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 8:50 am | #

            Joe’s saving throws against female opponents are so heavily penalized that he probably failed anyway. People without Joe’s Penis Penalty? Not so much.

        • Crimson Magic
          Crimson Magic
          February 15, 2011 at 2:23 pm | #

          Still doesn’t counteract that 1! Unless we made this into a Knowledge (Adorability) check. Hmmm….

  8. Coppermouth
    Coppermouth
    February 15, 2011 at 12:18 am | #

    Anyone else kind of mad at Joyce for making them hate her so much, and then she pulls this?

    • Jack
      Jack
      February 15, 2011 at 6:26 am | #

      With her penis?

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 8:53 am | #

      Nah. I already hated her enough that this doesn’t change it one way or the other. It just makes her look kinda pathetic.

    • dchorror
      dchorror
      February 15, 2011 at 11:35 am | #

      A nice parting word is not enough to retract talking mean about many people, whether she meant it not.

      • Biker Matt
        Biker Matt
        February 15, 2011 at 5:29 pm | #

        Talking mean about someone isn’t any worse of a mark than as a sign of immaturity (kind of a given here).

        HER problem is that she’s given over to abusing others, made worse by the surrounding “bait”.

      • Janos
        Janos
        February 16, 2011 at 5:00 am | #

        Plus you know the Physical assault, yeah saying something nice at the end does not make up for several strips of bongoy behavior >.<

    • Gianni
      Gianni
      February 15, 2011 at 5:20 pm | #

      It does kind of remind you how inexperienced she is with the opposite sex. She really didn’t know what she was getting into. I still think she needs an attitude adjustment, but now I kind of feel sorry for her.

    • cappadocius
      cappadocius
      February 15, 2011 at 8:55 pm | #

      I’m kinda mad that you’re usin’ MY Gravatar!

  9. valis_kr3
    valis_kr3
    February 15, 2011 at 12:19 am | #

    Awww she’s so nice.

  10. Confuzor
    Confuzor
    February 15, 2011 at 12:20 am | #

    After this, Joe goes back to Galasso’s and waits for Connie’s shift to end…

    With his penis.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 8:54 am | #

      I certainly hope so.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 8:57 am | #

      Hope that he won’t go back to Galasso’s without his penis, I mean.

      • darkond2100
        darkond2100
        February 15, 2011 at 11:26 am | #

        There’s always the chance that it might end up in a Sodomuffin.

        • Pagannerd
          Pagannerd
          February 15, 2011 at 5:19 pm | #

          Challenge! Make up a definition for “A Sodomuffin” and get it added to Urban dictionary by the end of the month. Any takers?

    • Robin
      Robin
      February 15, 2011 at 6:02 pm | #

      I’d bet Mike has already beat him to it

  11. TomPulsar
    TomPulsar
    February 15, 2011 at 12:22 am | #

    Nope still hate her.

  12. katosen27
    katosen27
    February 15, 2011 at 12:30 am | #

    Joe will, most likely, will follow her and explain why the night went bad. As much as a sex-hound Joe is, this arc has shown that Joe has a lot of restraint and able to try and act like a gentleman, so he can be civil about things.

    Good god it was hard writing that without sexual innuendo in it.

    • NF
      NF
      February 15, 2011 at 12:40 am | #

      Joe will act like a gentleman as far as it furthers his goals to get laid. His plan was to be a perfect gentleman, and woo her into bed with his charm, but his plan was rendered useless by her religiosity and Mike. He did not have a backup plan. And Mike is a huge asshole.

      • Seraph
        Seraph
        February 15, 2011 at 9:02 am | #

        It’s true that Joe will behave however he needs to in order to get laid. However, if he’s anything like Joe Prime (admittedly, most of the characters we’ve met so far in DoA are at least a little less pleasant than their Roomies counterparts), there’s a decent person under the horndoggery. Whether that translates into following the violent fanatic and explaining to her that it’s pretty much all her fault that the evening went poorly is another question.

      • Heather
        Heather
        February 15, 2011 at 12:37 pm | #

        In terms of long terms plans though it’s almost in his best interests to patch things up- one bad strike, especially so early on even on just hear-say can mean he’s looking at a lonely few months if not longer. (I guess it depends if he’s unlucky enough to strike out a second time too soon afterwards).

        • Seraph
          Seraph
          February 15, 2011 at 1:01 pm | #

          Yes and no. I suspect Joyce’s reputation is already strange enough that a bad review from her might not hurt him very much.

    • Flamingkillamajig
      Flamingkillamajig
      August 26, 2012 at 10:20 pm | #

      This is directed at katosen27 but you said ‘arc’, ‘restraint’ and ‘things’ so it still has innuendo in there. A true perv can make anything sound pervy :P.

      Anyway i like joyce and i feel bad her date didn’t go as planned. However things can be expected when you put together a punchy chaperone, a sex hound guy and a religious zealot girl. The only other way this would’ve turned out is daddy’s little girl would’ve had her heart broken or turned into a tramp. I don’t know what to say about this. Plenty of good comments in my opinion and i don’t understand the joyce hate. I like how she’s such a dork but some of what she says would piss me off in real life. I kind of want to hate Joe but i can’t hate him either when he’s been fleshed out a bit.

  13. NF
    NF
    February 15, 2011 at 12:32 am | #

    Is it just me, or is Mike the only person who actually enjoyed this date? Almost like it was planned that way…

  14. goatman95111
    goatman95111
    February 15, 2011 at 12:41 am | #

    Meh.. I’m predicting more of a friendship thing…

    • Cinder
      Cinder
      February 15, 2011 at 12:39 pm | #

      Actually, I’m thinking something like a brother/sister relationship. He seems like the type that once he gets past wanting to bang a chick, he’ll be there for her to protect and support her, like an older brother.

  15. Deviltrig
    Deviltrig
    February 15, 2011 at 12:42 am | #

    Aww. that is all.

  16. Radome
    Radome
    February 15, 2011 at 12:54 am | #

    She looks so sad in that last panel. 🙁

    • Soundbucket
      Soundbucket
      February 15, 2011 at 9:30 am | #

      I have no sympathy for her. She’s been nothing but judgmental and violent all night.

      • zuche
        zuche
        February 15, 2011 at 10:34 am | #

        Let’s see…

        She’s been hopeful. Affectionate. Apologetic. Flustered. She’d been listening to Joe express a view she’s been taught to find repugnant, right up until Mike started punching him. Were the first words out of her mouth in reaction to that judgmental or offensive.

        The “nothing but” standard was not even close to being met.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 10:35 am | #

          Make that “Where the first words…offensive?”

        • Andy
          Andy
          February 15, 2011 at 11:52 am | #

          Let’s see. She’d been hopeful that she could force Joe into changing his religion for her, because she was judgmental of that religion. She’d been hopeful that she could force two adults she’s never met back into marriage, despite Joe (who knew both very well) warning her it was a bad idea, because she was judgmental of their divorce. She was apologetic and flustered because her date ended up in pain after being punched repeatedly by a man she brought along for the express purpose of punching those who did not adhere to a portion of her judgmental worldview.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 2:29 pm | #

            See? “Nothing but” is entirely incorrect!

      • Nitpicker
        Nitpicker
        February 15, 2011 at 12:52 pm | #

        Note that half of the commentators here have no problem being judgmental of Joyce.

        Yes, it’s a pointed and mostly accurate parody of strict Christianity. Doesn’t justify all of you getting your hate on.

        • Seraph
          Seraph
          February 15, 2011 at 1:03 pm | #

          She helped beat him up. That’s the kind of thing you get to judge.

        • Andy
          Andy
          February 15, 2011 at 1:11 pm | #

          There’s a difference between being judgmental and calling someone out on something that is not only wrong but illegal.

  17. Tin Roof
    Tin Roof
    February 15, 2011 at 1:17 am | #

    Nope. Joyce Prime was never one of my favourite characters, but I can’t even *stand* DoA Joyce. This sort of passive-aggressive bullshit merely makes me hate her even more.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 9:03 am | #

      Seconded.

  18. zuche
    zuche
    February 15, 2011 at 1:18 am | #

    And thus we look into the psychotomy that is Joyce. Interesting contrast between two forms of objectification by individuals that might yet get to know each other as people.

  19. arjay2813
    arjay2813
    February 15, 2011 at 1:25 am | #

    should have ended that on a high note..and slapped him again Joyce

  20. wnderjif
    wnderjif
    February 15, 2011 at 1:36 am | #

    you know what also smells nice? 50 MCNUGGETS!!

    • MJ
      MJ
      February 15, 2011 at 8:21 am | #

      Alright, the whole nugget thing didn’t get me the first time round.
      But now I want nuggets.

  21. DrDVD
    DrDVD
    February 15, 2011 at 1:38 am | #

    anyone else notice the bruising on joe’s face? At first I thought there was a smudge on my screen.

    joe use’s ax body spray, and in that universe it actually smells good enough to justify the commercials

    • Björn
      Björn
      February 15, 2011 at 3:22 am | #

      Impossible.

      • Madock345
        Madock345
        February 15, 2011 at 4:06 am | #

        Nothing is Impossible…

        With his penis

        • Pagannerd
          Pagannerd
          February 15, 2011 at 5:52 pm | #

          Actually, DoA Joe is the face of Old Spice.

          “Hello ladies. Look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now BACK TO ME, sadly he isnt me, but if he started working in an engine-oil-intensive environment and wearing flourescently coloured shirts, he could seem like he IS me. Look down, back up, Where are you? You’re in a sentient Hybrid automobile, with the man your man could be like. What’s that in your hand, back at me, I have it, it’s an Ipad with two file-shared seasons of that Anime you love, now look again, the Ipad is now POCKY. Everything is possible when your man smells like Old Spice and not a doofus.

          I’m in a giant Mecha.”

          • Animaniac
            Animaniac
            February 16, 2011 at 12:05 am | #

            Awesome!

  22. Croaxleigh
    Croaxleigh
    February 15, 2011 at 1:39 am | #

    Joe realizes that people have feelings in 3… 2… 1…

    • Mirenheart
      Mirenheart
      February 15, 2011 at 1:46 am | #

      … Nope, just gas…

  23. OhNoUDiNt
    OhNoUDiNt
    February 15, 2011 at 6:53 am | #

    I think you’ve all missed the most important thought point of this story arc. What you should ask yourself is, “Did Mike Joe Conquest” (with his penis) and how will that will affect his future gigs as a chaperone?

  24. Ozzmandius
    Ozzmandius
    February 15, 2011 at 7:10 am | #

    Even after having gone crazy, I want to hug her.

  25. Keleso
    Keleso
    February 15, 2011 at 7:39 am | #

    This date is going to turn Joyce into a lesbian, and then she’s going to date Leslie.

  26. ziggy78eog
    ziggy78eog
    February 15, 2011 at 9:04 am | #

    So, what did we learn? That Mike is simultaneously the best and worst person to chaperon a date.

  27. Swayze
    Swayze
    February 15, 2011 at 10:04 am | #

    While Joyce might try and act nice here at the end, it’s kind of hard to see her as a nice person, considering the fact that she joined in on the shit-kicking that Mike gave Joe. Despite the fact that this is a comic, (where crazy shite takes place), I still don’t quite get why Joe would put up with Mike punching him in the face for so long, or at all really.

    • zuche
      zuche
      February 15, 2011 at 10:45 am | #

      Not hard at all. A nice person isn’t always going to act nice. It goes with being a complex individual, especially when crazy and sheltered are part of the mix.

      • Seraph
        Seraph
        February 15, 2011 at 11:54 am | #

        No, I’d say pretty hard. Helping Mike with the violence puts her in the same category as Mike. Crazy and sheltered just explain WHY she’s not nice.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 2:33 pm | #

          If it put her in the same category as Mike, then why haven’t people reacted like this to Mike?

          • begbert2
            begbert2
            February 15, 2011 at 3:17 pm | #

            Because we expect this of Mike and love him for it. Joyce, not so much.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 3:25 pm | #

            Mike is a mad dog. When a mad dog bites someone, you get angry at the person who let the mad dog off his chain.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 4:44 pm | #

            So…Joyce is not in the same category as Mike then? Which is it, please?

            She asked Joe to keep his thoughts clean while she tried to restrain Mike. Considering the situation, that was only common sense.

            Joe, being one-third of the comedy troupe, went out of his way to make it worse. It was not an accident on his part. He deliberately looked down.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 4:56 pm | #

            You’re right. She’s not in the same category as Mike. She’s worse, as the person who lets the mad dog off it’s chain is worse than the mad dog itself.

            “Keep your thoughts clean” = “Please stop swearing while you get punched in the face.” Right. And remember, his swearing was more of a concern to her than Mike’s punching.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 5:05 pm | #

            If Mike was really a mad dog, he wouldn’t be allowed out in public. Joe also wouldn’t have survived, “Get him,” looking as he does.

            “Keep your thoughts clean.” = “Stop showing red to the bull.”

            Considering that she only yelled, “Language!” the second time Joe swore, and apologized the first time Mike hit him, I can’t agree with your assessment of her priorities. Telling him to watch the language IS compatible with trying to keep him from getting his again.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:18 pm | #

            He shouldn’t be allowed in public, but Joyce brought him anyway.

            And true, telling him to watch the language is compatible with trying to keep him from getting hit again – but then, telling Mike to stop hitting him might stop Joe from swearing. But of course, Joyce has her priorities.

            Sorry. Not. Nice. Person. May someday become one, but not now.

      • Seraph
        Seraph
        February 15, 2011 at 11:55 am | #

        And that still doesn’t explain why Joe put up with getting punched in the face even once.

      • Andy
        Andy
        February 15, 2011 at 11:55 am | #

        A nice person isn’t going to bring a third person along on a date without letting their date know beforehand. A nice person will definitely not bring along someone to punch their date. And a nice person will not try to push their worldview on someone else.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 2:45 pm | #

          A nice person is capable of thoughtless acts and poor judgment. A nice person is capable of pushing a worldview others don’t accept.

          Nice people are not all the same. Many of them will reject the tenets of each other’s value systems entirely.

          Also, Joyce did not bring Mike along for the purpose of having him beat on Joe. That argument doesn’t hold up.

          • Andy
            Andy
            February 15, 2011 at 2:54 pm | #

            So how would you define a nice person? I would define it as a person who does nice things, but Joyce hasn’t done nice things in this story arc. In fact, I seem to recall that the very man Joyce follows so fervently would agree. “By their fruit you will know them.” If you want to argue that Joyce is a nice person, a good person, then you need to come up with some evidence to support that claim pretty quickly. Everything I’ve seen has shown otherwise.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 4:08 pm | #

            Sure she has. Acting with good intention is nice, even if the results are, and I use this word intentionally, damnably poor.

            Trying to bring lovers and parents back together again is a nice thing. Without context, it is also a foolish thing to do. When he told her it was a bad idea, she listened to his explanation, was saddened by it…and then promptly blundered into a Pollyanna note. Nice? Yes. Dumb? Oh, yes.

            Bringing an escort along a date with a stranger? Regular check calls to a contact should have been sufficient, sure. Nevertheless, she made it clear, right up front, that Joyce was not looking for a sexual encounter here. She showed concern when Mike first hit Joe (and he had it coming) and apologized, but she made her reasons for needing the escort.

            Joe could have walked away at the start of the evening, or once he’d been punched for trying to bribe Mike–after he’d been warned about the “inappropriate behaviour” clause. He could have not stared at Connie’s chest, not that he deserved to be hit for that.

            Joyce was nice enough to provide him with an out from the start of the date. Instead, Joe kept trying to ditch her security detail (the last time in plain view of her, no less), seeking the chance to get her alone. Mike exploited that, just as he exploited every word (many of them stupid) that came out of Joe’s mouth. He exploited Joyce’s state of mind to get a chance to keep beating on Joe.

            It was not nice of Joyce to tell Mike to do that, but that’s it. Up until then, she was actively trying her best to be considerate toward an operator.

            She was way too nice for what he’d deserved up until then.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:00 pm | #

            *Shrug*. Even if every word you type is correct, she lost her “nice person” qualifications when she started beating on a helpless man who was already on the floor. With help. And claimed that it was the Lord’s will because he was a lecher. Sorry, she’s a violent, preachy coward now.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 5:07 pm | #

            Joe is not a helpless man. He’s also looking pretty good for the beating he took.

            Comedic sociopathy all round, nothing more.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:15 pm | #

            He was down on the floor, stunned by Mike’s punch. That’s not a very good situation for fighting back.

            Comedic sociopathy only works if you want the character to be utterly unsympathetic. If you try to make us feel sorry for them immediately after, both fail.

      • Cinder
        Cinder
        February 15, 2011 at 12:06 pm | #

        I totally agree. And know from experience. I may seem nice and shy and quiet, but if you make me mad, I will not hesitate to let you know what I think in the loudest, most obnoxious, most violent way possible. And I live a very sheltered(and crazy) life. My mom STILL tries to cover my eyes when a naked woman comes onto the screen in a movie. AND I’M A 20 YEAR OLD FEMALE!!! -.-

  28. Jimmy
    Jimmy
    February 15, 2011 at 10:07 am | #

    I’m just really excited to see some other characters now (or Mike again. I can always go for some Mike).

  29. begbert2
    begbert2
    February 15, 2011 at 10:42 am | #

    Another vote for how this doesn’t make Joyce any less of a train wreck. I don’t hate her or anything, but she is some messed-up puppy and a little (selfish) attempt to pretend that she didn’t nearly single-handedly destroy the evening doesn’t change that.

    Yes, selfish. It’s not Joe’s feelings she’s trying to salvage by being last-minute nice, it’s her own.

    • Zem
      Zem
      February 15, 2011 at 11:10 am | #

      I wonder if Willis intended it to look that way, or if you’re giving him valuable feedback by interpreting it that way.

    • zuche
      zuche
      February 15, 2011 at 11:32 am | #

      Judging by her expression as she walks away, she is not trying to salvage her feelings. Her goal is selfish, but appropriately so. In the end, she didn’t wait for someone else to bring something better to the night. Handling it as badly as she is just makes it realistic.

      This was not the objectification she and Joe were practicing earlier. That was a recipe for mutual disaster, as we’ve seen. Now to see if they’ll learn anything from it.

      • begbert2
        begbert2
        February 15, 2011 at 3:22 pm | #

        Judging by her expression, her effort to salvage her self-image as a not-bongo who didn’t total her first date was simply a failure.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 4:10 pm | #

          No, I can’t see how you’d interpret her expression that way at all.

  30. UnlikelyToPostAgain
    UnlikelyToPostAgain
    February 15, 2011 at 10:51 am | #

    Any date where a guy has been hired to punch you in the face if you behave in a way that she does not appreciate is a date with a Crazy Woman, even if she is cute and misunderstood. Unless you’re a masochist, in which case it’s love at first sight, and time for wacky hijinks!

    • zuche
      zuche
      February 15, 2011 at 11:09 am | #

      That’s not why she hired him. It’s what she got, but it was not what she’d expected.

      • Seraph
        Seraph
        February 15, 2011 at 11:57 am | #

        His only pay was the opportunity to punch people in the face.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 2:47 pm | #

          So “hired” was a poor choice of words. It’s still not why she brought him.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 3:26 pm | #

            He made it clear that’s why he was coming, and she brought him.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 4:16 pm | #

            Since she was surprised and apologetic when he did hit Joe, it’s pretty clear that she’d never expected it would happen. Naive, sure, but she only asked for Joe to be hit once.

            While he only deserved to be punched once, Joe was the one asking for it every other time.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:02 pm | #

            “Asking for it” with his impure thoughts. I’m sure a preachy psycho like Joyce would think so.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 5:12 pm | #

            No, he literally requested it. Knowing the terms, he tried to bribe a guard to abandon his charge, made it clear he was thinking inappropriate thoughts (by the terms set forth for Mike) every seven seconds, and actively stared at someone’s chest..

            Mike had him on a technicality on two of those punches, but he set himself up every time.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:22 pm | #

            Spare me. Keep arguing how Joe deserved it if you want, but the fact remains that Joyce brought along someone she knew agreed to the job purely because he wanted an opportunity to punch someone in the face. If she didn’t think he’d be looking for the opportunity, she’s bonehead stupid. Is that what you’re saying?

    • Cinder
      Cinder
      February 15, 2011 at 12:11 pm | #

      d=(o.o<)

  31. zuche
    zuche
    February 15, 2011 at 11:07 am | #

    This situation reminds me of a scene in the Incredibles, where Helen stretches her neck to tower above Bob, shouting, “This. Is. Not. About. You!”

    Joyce took a stand for herself. Realistically, it was inexcusable, but compare it to Mike’s behaviour–and the free pass he’s getting, because people expect that of him.

    It’s not about Joyce, then. It’s about what people expect of her.

    If she’d handled Joe well, it wouldn’t have been Joyce. If she’d been played by Joe, there’d be little hope of redeeming him. We got the third option, wherein she plays into the rules of her universe. We’re shown someone Joe cannot push around without her being idealized into something she’s not.

    If we’re lucky, they’ll grow out of this. If we’re really lucky, that will occur along a very winding path.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm | #

      Took a stand for herself? Against what? The closest Joe got to “pushing her around” was asking what was wrong with Lust. He spent the whole rest of the date ducking her conversion attempts, dissuading her plans to get his parents back together, and gettting punched in the face.

      As for Mike, well, I certainly wouldn’t mind seeing someone hit him back at some point (he doesn’t have super strength in this universe, after all), but that’s beside the point. Do you really want Joyce in the comedic sociopath category with Mike?

      • zuche
        zuche
        February 15, 2011 at 3:09 pm | #

        She took a stand against Joe’s predatory nature. He knew she wasn’t looking for the same thing he was, but he went after it anyway. He’s shown himself willing to exploit her long term goals in pursuit of his short term goals, with no regard toward the former beyond that.

        They’re so similar it’s not funny. Neither of them was interested in the other person so much as what the means to an end presented here. Both of them went into this with the intention of changing the other person’s life.

        Seriously, a couple of cartoon blows to the head are nothing compared to the rest of the crap they’ve been flinging at each other.

        • begbert2
          begbert2
          February 15, 2011 at 3:20 pm | #

          Joyce didn’t know anything about that, so she couldn’t possibly have been taking a stand against it. Joe may have shown US that he’s a predator, but Joyce didn’t know. She would have done the same to Danny.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 4:19 pm | #

            Danny wouldn’t have tried to bribe Mike. Danny wouldn’t have tried to ditch Joyce’s escort at the retaurant. Danny wouldn’t have diverted the subject at the table in such a manipulative fashion.

            Try again.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:12 pm | #

            *Shrug again*

            Well, as you originally said, her reaction was still inexcusable, and now she’s the one who’s going to be hard to redeem. This strip doesn’t even come close. Is that better somehow?

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 5:15 pm | #

            Joyce does not have to be redeemed any more than Joe does, or Mike. She’s gone over the top once and she’s ruined?

            To hell with that.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:26 pm | #

            Mike is beyond redemption, and he doesn’t want it anyway. And yes, once you’ve taken part in beating on someone while he’s down, you need to be redeemed.

            And no, she’s not ruined – by definition, if someone can still be redeemed, they’re not ruined. It’ll just take a lot more than this.

  32. Dahlia
    Dahlia
    February 15, 2011 at 11:07 am | #

    Sorry, Joyce…day late, dollar short. D:

    • zuche
      zuche
      February 15, 2011 at 11:42 am | #

      Not if Joe’s expression is any indicator. Whether this goes anywhere between them or not (and I’d expect that to take months), it’s made an impression on him.

      I’m just hoping it’s one that does both of them some good in the long run, whether they get together or end the series as avowed polyamorous celibates.

      • Seraph
        Seraph
        February 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm | #

        I think Dahlia meant for us. Joyce is going to have to do a lot more than that to escape her new classification as the crazy, dangerous, fanatical bongo.

      • Sarah
        Sarah
        February 15, 2011 at 12:27 pm | #

        Polyamorous celibates? Now there’s an odd phrase.

        • zuche
          zuche
          February 15, 2011 at 3:11 pm | #

          Sure, but there’s no reason the two have to be mutually exclusive.

      • Dahlia
        Dahlia
        February 16, 2011 at 5:08 pm | #

        o: I guess so…

  33. Cinder
    Cinder
    February 15, 2011 at 11:53 am | #

    I’d say NOW Joe’s feeling a little remorseful.

  34. Richie9999
    Richie9999
    February 15, 2011 at 11:59 am | #

    Way to go, Joe. I can’t really say that she doesn’t deserve to be feeling bad but still, try to do something. I dunno, I’d feel bad if I let her walk away from me all sad like, but then again, I’m too nice for my own good sometimes.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 12:08 pm | #

      Much too nice, if you feel sorry for somebody who just got done beating you up.

  35. Pinnelipe
    Pinnelipe
    February 15, 2011 at 12:17 pm | #

    So much Joyce hate… Yeah, she was crazy, and I’m not a fan of religious zealots either, but in the end, I do feel Joe was just as, if not more so guilty of this mess than Joyce. Why? Because, in spite of his hormonal fueled ways, he knew what it could become. He wanted to change her just as much as she wanted to change him. Change the sweet, naive girl into a sex kitten. College is a learning experience, an experience of tolerance for many. I live in a very conservative area and have seen girls that are surprisingly close to being like Joyce. See them a few years later after going to college, and they are almost unrecognizable. Guys like Joe, though? Very rarely is there a change. They know what they’re doing.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 2:46 pm | #

      He knew it could become a beat-down with himself on the losing end? Somehow I doubt that.

      You do have a point, that Joe wanted to change Joyce just as much as she wanted to change him, which was obnoxious in its own right. If this date had been a night of dueling conversion attempts, ending with frustration and loud arguments, then they would share the responsibility equally, and this scene would be kind of sweet. Instead, Joe barely got a word in edgewise and Joyce had Mike beat him up.

      Thus the hate.

      • Chupi
        Chupi
        February 15, 2011 at 3:07 pm | #

        To be fair, though… She did beg Mike to stop until he pointed out that Joe had looked at Connie’s breasts. At which point it switched over to a pretty classic kind of woman scorned moment.

      • zuche
        zuche
        February 15, 2011 at 3:14 pm | #

        “He knew it could become a beat-down with himself on the losing end? Somehow I doubt that.”

        He said as much in the panel Connie appeared.

        • Seraph
          Seraph
          February 15, 2011 at 3:19 pm | #

          Well, of course he knew then. Mike had been beating on him for the whole date by that point.

          Why he didn’t fight back or leave sooner, I’ll never know.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 4:31 pm | #

            No, Mike only struck Joe every time the agreement allowed him to do so. True, he really stretched the point with the “seven seconds” thing, but Joe didn’t stop there. Calling out a fornicative synonym didn’t help his case (to borrow a Bill Cosby line out of context, “First you say, then you do it.”), and looking down from Connie’s eyes to her chest was just terminally stupid.

            He didn’t leave because, up until Joyce lost her temper with him, he thought he had a chance of getting her alone.

          • Seraph
            Seraph
            February 15, 2011 at 5:09 pm | #

            “Fornicative synonym”? Are you pulling my leg here? What do you shout when someone hits you?

            Whatever it is, chances are good that Joyce would be more worried about your language than the fact you’d been hit.

          • zuche
            zuche
            February 15, 2011 at 5:17 pm | #

            That depends: am I trying to be considerate to other people in earshot?

            I’ll tell you this much: words that are likely to likely to offend my date are NOT on.

        • Seraph
          Seraph
          February 15, 2011 at 5:23 pm | #

          You take time to consider what words might offend your date when you get hit? Color me impressed.

    • Shift
      Shift
      February 15, 2011 at 5:46 pm | #

      Joe wanted to sleep with Joyce. No denying that. But at what point did he bully her? Did he every preach that her beliefs were wrong or did he bring someone along to bully Joyce into doing something she didn’t want to do.

      Joyce has been harping on about her religion, insulting his faith, sticking her nose into his family issues, and brought along someone who she gave permission to hit her date if he did anything that wasn’t hyper-conservative. I mean, Mike began striking Joe for his personal thoughts, which lets be frank, are impossible to control. Even Joyce has had those thoughts.

      Joyce is the bigger bad in this plot, because her beliefs were zealot. Joe technically did nothing wrong except hope he could sleep with her, and even then, he never pushed her.

  36. Schmidt
    Schmidt
    February 15, 2011 at 12:28 pm | #

    I like Joyce, but I think that’s because I loved how her world view changed and grew in It’s Walky. I can’t wait to see how Willis handles it this time around. People aren’t born knowing how to interact with other people. They mess up and they learn from their mistakes. I don’t think Joyce is pleased with the way she handled things tonight. It looks like she’s taken her first step on the road to rethinking things.

    And don’t forget what Joe’s intentions were on this date. He wanted to seduce her, knowing full well that she is a virgin and that she doesn’t believe in sex before marriage. He was being just as disrespectful of Joyce’s beliefs as she was of his. It just so happens that Joyce’s aggression came into effect before his did, so she came off looking like the bad guy.

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 2:49 pm | #

      See, we know Joe’s intentions, but Joyce didn’t. How could she? The most he got out on the subject was “What’s so bad about Lust?” Which means that she and Mike beat him up for general “hanky-pankiousness”. That’s why she looks like the bad guy.

      • Chupi
        Chupi
        February 15, 2011 at 3:37 pm | #

        His will was strong… Despite his intentions Joe seemed pretty gentlemanly and patient during this arc. So far, to me at least, he doesn’t seem to come off as someone who WOULD fight. Unless it was completely necessary, anyway. If you wanna get too psychology-oriented with that, maybe you could relate it to how his parents are divorced. Maybe his dad did a little more than yell sometimes.

        • Chupi
          Chupi
          February 15, 2011 at 3:39 pm | #

          Whoops, this reply was meant to be a little further up. Not sure how it wound up here.

    • Shift
      Shift
      February 15, 2011 at 5:41 pm | #

      Yeah, we know Joe wanted to have sex with Joyce, but you’ll note he never pushed her. He brought up the discussion of sexual lust not being altogether “evil” and didn’t even get that far because Mike hit him (which Joyce approved of). He didn’t bully her, or attack her or insult her. Joe Joe did nothing wrong. And for the most part, he seems respectable enough that if Joyce had told “No, I don’t want to have sex” he would have being disappointed but accepted her decision. He’s a cad, a jerk and a sexually obsessed, but he seems to have some sort of limits. Joyce meanwhile pushes her beliefs to unfair levels.

      • Schmidt
        Schmidt
        February 16, 2011 at 10:37 am | #

        Joe never managed to get to get Joyce alone. He was out of his element the whole date because of Mike. He never had the opportunity to make his move. As far as Joyce telling him she didn’t want to have sex, how much clearer do you have to get than believing in chastity before marriage? He knew she didn’t want to have sex, and he planned to change her mind.

        Joyce’s action aren’t justified, obviously, but I agree with Pinnelipe up there; she doesn’t understand why what she’s doing is wrong. She’s led a very sheltered life. In her vision of the of the world she IS doing the right thing. It’s going to take her a while to learn why it’s not. The real judge of her character is not whether or not she makes mistakes, but whether she learns from them.

        Mary (from Roomies) is a good foil for Joyce. Mary is someone who had similar hang-ups as Joyce, but never stopped judging people, even after she started participating in the activities she disapproved of. Joyce, on the other hand, changed her opinions and grew as a person.

  37. Heather
    Heather
    February 15, 2011 at 12:54 pm | #

    So is this puncher remorse I guess?

    I think Joyce’s sheltered life has in retrospect done so much more harm than good in the end. Because of the certain standards set and the environment she’s been raised in, it seems as if someone like Joe is generally just a big pervert deserving of punishment. But perhaps in her Christianese way she can realise that dealing out the punishment isn’t technically her place to begin with, nor Mikes. Plus eentually realise that it is such a LITTLE thing she was punishing to begin with anyway.

    But now I guess in the silence of the lift she’s starting to wonder about this at least as the rage has cooled off? Joe seemed like a nice guy overall after all before the punchings happened. She may eventually start to realise the fundy black-and-white way is just not cutting it in the real world.

    Joe still has a right to be mad at her, I mean she still has to apologise in general in my view at the very least (and I think she’d mean it if she did it) but I still feel a bit sorry for her for some reason, and the last comic I was thinking “Man, what a crazy bongo”.

    Then again, I’m not the best at holding grudges myself (granted apart from my sister when I was little I haven’t had physical tustles or punches really, this is more to do with people acting like bongoes in general) but I guess I’d forgive her eventually upon apology, though it would take a little while before I could consider her a friend if ever at all, but I guess I’d leave her be mostly, with however a stern warning not to pull that shit again with ANYONE except in actual self-defense and WHY it’s wrong otherwise. Plus say that the next person could report her and it’s more or less assault what she pulled and she should count herself lucky I’m letting it slide.

  38. Andrew Perron
    Andrew Perron
    February 15, 2011 at 3:16 pm | #

    Yep, I totally sympathize with both Joyce and Joe.

  39. zuche
    zuche
    February 15, 2011 at 4:59 pm | #

    I can’t believe I only just noticed they’re in an elevator.

    Why does that worry me?

    • Seraph
      Seraph
      February 15, 2011 at 5:31 pm | #

      The fact that they’re in an elevator? I dunno, Aerosmith flashbacks?

      • Pagannerd
        Pagannerd
        February 15, 2011 at 5:56 pm | #

        Watching too much Grays’ Anatomy?

  40. Danno
    Danno
    February 15, 2011 at 5:15 pm | #

    At the risk of defending psycho religious behavior, I have no sympathy for Joe. I mean his plan was to “fix” her with his penis, that at least to me makes him a piece of shite deserving of being punched repeatedly.

    • Janos
      Janos
      February 17, 2011 at 12:00 am | #

      And her plan to “Fix” Joe was to change his religious belifs, and stick her fat nose into his family life … I see her as more of the bad guy.

  41. DigitGidget
    DigitGidget
    February 15, 2011 at 5:28 pm | #

    I don’t remember any situation in college that was this exaggerated, what with punching being a fairly harmful activity in the real world, but I do remember that moment of remorse and realization where you know you did something wrong.

    I think Joyce and Joe are, at heart, good people. They’re just young and making young, dumb choices.

  42. Gianni
    Gianni
    February 15, 2011 at 5:35 pm | #

    Here’s the only difference between Joyce and Joe I think really matters:

    Joe would never have resorted to violence to change Joyce around.

    Joyce GAVE Mike carte blanche to punch anyone getting out of line, then joined in when she got mad enough. If you can argue that Joe would have done the same thing, I would agree with the anti-Joe talk, but I have to side with him on this one.

    • Schmidt
      Schmidt
      February 16, 2011 at 10:42 am | #

      That’s a good point. But I do think Joyce has learned that’s not a good option.

  43. Shift
    Shift
    February 15, 2011 at 5:54 pm | #

    Like so many others, I see Joyce as the bad guy in this story, not Joe. Yes, he went out with her in the hopes of sleeping with her. Well, guess what? A lot of people do that. We’re sexual beings. We like to have sex.

    However, Joe never pushed her into having sex. He was respectable, he didn’t bully her or insult her beliefs or try and force her into doing something she didn’t want to do. He didn’t bring along a third party who would strike her if she spoke out of turn against his beliefs. He didn’t strike her when she spoke against her beliefs. He attempted to debate with her the idea of lust being exclusively evil. Was this done with the hopes it might convince her to sleep with him? Very possible. But at the time is was only talk, which is hardly a bad thing, since they were trying to have a conversation, and at times conversations have two opposing views.

    Joyce however did all the stuff that Joe didn’t. She belittled his Jewish beliefs and has been subtly insulting them by preaching her own faith to Joe. She brought Mike along and gave him the okay to beat Joe if he did, said or even thought of something sexual. She then proceeded to attack Joe with Mike for looking at another woman (while this is tacky and rude, it is not cause for being attacked). Joyce has been the worst kind of date, regardless of upbringing, gender or faith.

    • Schmidt
      Schmidt
      February 16, 2011 at 10:53 am | #

      I grew up with a couple of really conservative kids, and I don’t really see Joyce as belittling his Jewish faith. She’s just been taught that it’s wrong. For her, it’s like arguing with someone that gravity doesn’t exist. Of course it exists, you can see how it exists all around you. For her, the Christian God is something so fundamental that it seems bizarre for a person not to have faith in Him. She’s not belittling Joe, she’s just confused. It’s really impossible to argue with people over this. In my experience it’s best to just accept that neither of you is going to understand the other. I mean, in their world view, we’re all going to hell because we don’t believe in the exact same faith as them. They are totally clueless as to why we would want that.

      I’m not saying it’s right that she thinks that way, but it’s kind of silly to get mad at someone for a belief that’s been driven into them by their families and communities.

  44. SamClemensRIGL
    SamClemensRIGL
    February 15, 2011 at 6:12 pm | #

    I can’t be the only one that had “Kiss the Girl” pop into his head on the last panel.

    • Crimson Magic
      Crimson Magic
      February 15, 2011 at 6:51 pm | #

      Yes. Yes you can.

  45. onetimecomment
    onetimecomment
    February 15, 2011 at 11:13 pm | #

    simple thought exercize: reverse their genders…then tell me if you can still sympathize with Joyce:

    girl wants to get laid, takes guy on date. guy brings violent female chaperone. any time girl talks, or thinks, about anything remotely sexual, girl gets hit. eventually both guy and violent girl are wailing on the first girl, who ends up with at least one visible bruise on her face. she is later told she smells good by the guy, who said he didn’t want the evening to end terribly.

    sorry…in my book, the one that resorts to violence loses every time. joe would have tried to coerce her…but she instigated the hitting. apologies or not, she KNEW mike was only there for the chance to hit people, and he was hitting joe for thoughts. uncool. if thoughts aren’t safe, what the heck is?

    • David
      David M Willis
      February 15, 2011 at 11:37 pm | #

      If girl-Joe were still massive and built and boy-Joyce were still tiny and adorable, I think I’d still feel the same way.

      • Animaniac
        Animaniac
        February 16, 2011 at 12:13 am | #

        We now need a pic of this pairing

        • Cinder
          Cinder
          February 16, 2011 at 10:42 am | #

          No, we now need a pic of the characters Gender Bended!

  46. Aaron DaMommio
    Aaron DaMommio
    February 17, 2011 at 9:44 am | #

    This episode really impressed me, showing the characters growing into more than their stereotypes. I wasn’t prepared to like either of these characters, and I do now.

  47. Digidestined of Trust (Tim)
    Digidestined of Trust (Tim)
    February 17, 2011 at 3:22 pm | #

    Joyce is now officially my favorite. Any room for a new character, David? I can’t believe I’m officially crushing on Joyce, haha. Great attitude, similar views, great smile, similar faith, very trustworthy, that’s exactly the same girl I’m wanting, though needs to be real…. 🙂

    • Janos
      Janos
      February 21, 2011 at 5:26 am | #

      If by ‘Trustworthy” you mean “Will hire someone to chaperone and punch you in the face while she tries to butt into your personal life/ disrespect your religion” then yes.. ._.

  48. Hrhtomas
    Hrhtomas
    February 20, 2011 at 5:07 pm | #

    “But you smell nice.”, said the drowning scorpion to the poisoned frog.

  49. Kelsey
    Kelsey
    December 27, 2011 at 1:41 pm | #

    Both Joe and Joyce were in the wrong. Joyce wanted to make him Christian (and described it as being “like Twilight”). Joe wanted to “fix her” with his penis. Both are pretty terrible in their own rights.

  50. Jess
    Jess
    November 21, 2014 at 3:33 am | #

    I still ship this….

Who's that guy over there?

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