Like, I get she doesn’t get social norms, doesn’t understand people and stuff, but she talks like a robot. She’s, what, 18? She’s been alive long enough that, even if she’s autistic (and I’m speaking from experience here, I’ve struggled with my autism and social anxiety my whole life), she’d be able to at least talk like a regular human being.
I’m not trying to bag on Willis’ writing, I’m sure there’s a REASON for it, but… what IS the reason? There’s a point where it becomes weirdly unrealistic how she speaks, even if she doesn’t interact with people much.
Posted yes, but spoken? Sometimes they just don’t match. Like kids these days who speak proper English but do all their internet talking with emoteecons and emojees and stuff.
If you what to be technical, the proper plural is “penes”. Latin nouns that end with -is are usually a special case of the third (short e) declension, and trade that “i” for an “e” in the plural. (And while we’re at it, most nouns with -us are masculine second (long o) declension, and only switch out the “us” for ONE i)
I went through a period where I did the opposite: speech was pretty regular but in writing I got very formal, didn’t use contractions, etc. and for the same reasons. When it seems like everyone somehow “misunderstands” you all the time you go to extremes to be as clear as possible.
I saw one of the writers of that episode at a con shortly after it aired. He said that the writers joked that Data had three speeds: “Slow, medium, and OH MY GOD!!”
Apparently they also had a pet name for Lwaxana Troi, and it was “Twin Peaks”.
But weren’t you under 25 when you were writing TF: WW? I could have sworn there were contractions in those. I mean, Rumble had lines. Rattrap too. Blame it on Picard? (I miss those, thinking of them gives me nostalgia, they were great reads to me).
I mean, I can’t remember you using a contraction on IRC in #wiigii or #tfww. But I also honestly wouldn’t remember if you had to be honest. I’m not as perceptive as Sarah is.
So you (Willis) talked like her, or you just didn’t use contractions? The latter is easy to believe. But actually speaking more formally? That’s hard to believe. You’re too good at sounding casual now.
Unless it’s only how you type and not how you speak…
Well I now see the way to summon Willis into the comments. I’ve rarely come across how to summon just his presence, or wake, if you will. Normally I’m around after the hammer comes down.
I watch a lot of the news programming from NHK, and I’ve noticed that in Asia (and in Hong Kong in particular) there are a lot of people who speak English even as a FIRST language, but their culture means they approach it very formally, much more so than we do in the West.
I recall a joke from a British comedian where he said that he wasn’t speaking with an accent, it’s just what the language sounds like when spoken correctly.
Fun fact, apparently the “real” way of speaking English is not the one in UK but the one found in some parts of USA, since the pilgrims brought it over and has ever since remained unchanged, whereas UK has seen it change over time.
Not that it matters since it’s all English at the end of the day.
Yup; I remember that set. I’m pretty sure it was the same one with the line about “Herbs… because it’s got a fucking ‘H’ in it.” Which is pretty much when I stand up and cheer, lol.
Nah, it wasn’t Eddie. The guy had a half hour special on Comedy Central Presents like 15 years ago. It was like his third line in his set. It was a joke in the snark sense of the word.
Thanks. Now all that will run through my head is the “sh-muck” scene from Ishtar. Yes. Haven’t seen that movie in over 20 years and somehow my subconscious still has that scene readily available.
“Telling the truth can be dangerous business/Honest and popular don’t go hand in hand…”
I don’t recall when I last saw it, but I’m pretty sure the year didn’t start with a 2.
I think is is loosely maybe has Asperger’s. Many people who have aspergers/are “on the spectrum” remind me of Dina. It’s pretty realistic actually once you consider that.
As an Assburglar myself I can confirm I do not talk like a robobot. I am a human of flesh and bone and fluids of varying viscosity, just as you are, meat child.
I’m allowed to. We’ve reappropriated it to be a word for us to rally behind. You, fleshboy, can’t say it. Especially not with a hard “rg”. “Cyberbah” maybe.
I was diagnosed with Autism over 20 years ago. I was told I’d be a leech on my parents for my entire life. Never get a job, go to college, be able to drive, have a family. Been in the workforce for 20 years, dual degree, driving for nearly 20 years, wife with 2 kids. Every day is hell for me, for the stress I put myself through to just interact with bigots who look down on me. So words like ‘aspies’ and ‘assburglurs’? They hurt, alot. If you are fine using them, good for you. Just not something I can do.
I’d put aside time if you go to play Fallout 4, I’ve barely tackled a third of the map, and barely started to main storyline. I joke that I’m playing the ‘Animal Crossing Edition’.
You both are invited to my next meeting of riboflavin-beings. We will partake of bovine prepared in the traditional manner: heated to a minimum of 344.2611111(repeating) degrees Kelvin over rapidly oxidizing carbon in a metal box. Report to the land ajacent to the rear of my domicile at 18:00 GMT on 20160717. Bring liquid refershments of your choosing.
I talked like GLaDOS when I was under a lot of pressure. I still do.
I developed a lot of language stims.
“This is just how Dina wants to sound” is perfectly believable to me, as is the idea that she feels that it makes her easier to understand. I remember feeling like written English was my first language, and spoken English a clumsy second at best.
HER voice, AGV. If I remember correctly, GLaDOS gets her mind from an uploaded woman, and therefore identifies as female. She may be a crazy, murderous operating system, but that is no reason to use the wrong pronoun. In fact I’d say that’s a reason not to use the wrong pronoun.
Sorry, but “it” is demeaning, and you don’t even have the excuse of a non-binary robot (for which I’d insist on “they”).
Well, at the end of the second game, she deleted Caroline, so “She” is technically dead. Do we have canon confirmation on GlaDOS current pronoun choice?
No, but “it” is the impersonal neuter singular pronoun. It’s weird to use when speaking of someone as a person.
I’m sure there’s probably someone somewhere who prefers “it,” but that’s even less common than several of the new pronouns that haven’t really caught on.
You aren’t helping your case with that “do not” business.
// I’ve never heard it called assburglary before. I’m stealing that one. And asses.
// I think that’s also what Dora should do if Coffee of Doom goes under. Not that she wouldn’t make a good bank robber, but stick with what you know.
Perhaps English is not her first language? That’s usually my assumption when people don’t use contractions. Mila Kunis in the first few seasons of That ’70s Show, for example…
It’s not my assumption, because English isn’t my first language, and I can contract* with the best of’em**. My English education (which back then started at ten years old) almost immediately introduced them, talking about how they are mostly for informal/spoken language. Something that was reinforced by all the movies and TV shows in English that I’d watch (thankfully, my country’s too small to dub everything, so I got subtitles instead).
Granted, the character Mila Kunis almost certainly did not have that same experience, since he grew up in the 60s as a kid, but in these times, I feel fairly confident in saying that most foreign kids today that gets a formal education in English also gets a lot of informal education one way or another.
*Wait, that makes me sounds like I’m a serious bridge player…
**Not to mention than I can contradict with the best of them.
Yes I can. Shut up! See, I contradicted you before you even replied, because I knew you were going to contradict me!
personally I believe Dina to be second generation, so her parent’s would be ESL and would speak more or less like people are suggesting. due to being raised in America with English as a primary language Dina would be much more fluent, but due to her self imposed poor socialization she wouldn’t change her speech patterns from her parent’s by much.
I know plenty of people who have had a normal socialization and suffer from no disorders who have particular mannerisms when speaking which deviates from the norm. Sometimes people just do their thing.
And that’s why I don’t like negative contractions. Half the time I only ever think them, and don’t say/type them. At least with typing if you proofread you can catch the error. Because meaning to say a negative, and not, can drastically affect what you’re saying.
“don’t”
“don’t”
I see a pattern here!
Really sure about half the time?
(You can of course decide to do not use contractions in the near future and follow up with a post where you do not use any of them at least two times, but that is entirely you’re decision!
Because your awesome!
I think I had the proper use. Perhaps a rewording.
When speaking, there are time where I mean to use the ‘not’ operator but I end up skipping past it, with both contracted and uncontracted. Plus layering them can lead to confusion for some. I have a programming degree, so I can typically parse them out, but for some people, a double negative is a negative, wherein it’s a positive.
My response of ‘Never’ to ML above was meant to invert the phrase, since it was asked about when we not talking about here. The intended meaning was to indicated that we would always talk about here.
I find that tends to happen often, actually. Asking a question with a negative in it, a negative answer should thus make it a positive answer to a positive question, it’s just not taken as such.
Perhaps it is because there are a limited number of ways to show someone as different without using an insulting stereotype or having to have other people keep mentioning that they are different.
That’s… not true. Like, from a writing perspective I’d say that using speech quirks to differentiate characters is a last resort/lazy option, over actual character traits.
The fact that she looks and acts like a 12 year old with a dinosaur fetish is enough to make her different.
And, that’s not true, either. In writing terms, it’s the character’s Voice. I have been to workshops devoted to working on individualizing character voice. It’s an important tool, that can convey much about the character, both true and false, to the reader.
There is a purist school of thought, that says that written language should and must be formal in nature, with no colloquialisms or accents. That disregards how a person or character would speak in real life, in favor of how they SHOULD speak. As they tend to get in fist fights with each other over minor grammar variations, most don’t pay much attention to them.
I am aware of a character’s voice being important. But voice != arbitrarily never using contractions. Especially considering just a few comics ago Dina said that Amber’s face “did a thing”. If it was to be consistent, she’d have said something like “her face contorted” or something.
Ah, but it does fit. She doesn’t understand what the face thing is, so it’s a thing. She won’t name it, because she doesn’t know it.
Further, if you read through the comments on this page, you will see that a lot of people are taking information from Dina’s voice, and interpreting it. Not every one get’s the same answers, but it has meaning that they interprate. The way she speaks, the words she uses, the order of how she uses them, all say something.
Removing or altering parts of her voice would change how we see the character. If she used more contractions, we would see her as less stiff, more flexible, and less out of step with the social norms of the rest of the world (if this bunch has any “norms”). We might see her as less “adorkable”, and more someone who seems to be more creepy, due to her tendency to hide behind things.
I always think of it as “He seems to be having some kind of expression.” Expressions of ambiguous or supressed emotion confuse the hell out of me, which is unfortunate as I live in the land of the stiff upper lip.
Have you ever read the dialog from the movie “Guys and Dolls”? Damon Runyan, the writer of the stories upon which it was based, often wrote excessively stilted dialog that was very formal and precise and very rarely employed contractions. I see Dina’s Runyanesque speech patterns as merely being another one of her little idiosyncrasies, along the same line as her fixation with dinosaurs.
Explain that to my college professor, whose favorite red pen mark was circles around apostrophes. Contractions apparently make your essays sound “unprofessional” and “uneducated.” Partly because they make the writing “less clear.” (And yes, that sentence is a poorly-constructed sentence fragment, so I do know that A) English evolves and B) he was full of bullshit and just wanted stilted-sounding papers turned in.)
I am not Asian, not ESL, and have never been diagnosed on the spectrum (though my mom did keep me away from testing when the school insisted, because she “didn’t want me treated any differently than other kids”), but I have quirks of speech to this day, after 36 years struggling to overcome them. It comes from not hearing a lot of people speak, due to being ridiculously isolated from the world.
In academia, speech (especially written) is more formal and sed professor was somewhat in the right to insist on a specific style, as that’s what is required in his social group.
Language may evolve, but academia only takes into account the official, textbook version, which is at times somewhat removed from informal, everyday speech.
It’s a matter of knowing your audience and adapting yourself for sed audience, thereby making yourself more accepted and successful in that circle. Alternatively, challenge him to a debate on the fluidity of language and see if you can sway his opinion… which likely is about as unproductive as it sounds.
Wasn’t I being clear? If you’d’ve payed attention, it’d be clearer what I’d meant. Instead, y’all didn’t stay focused. If you did, I’d needn’t be so repetitive and y’all’d’n’t’ve to face my abbreviative fury.
Contractions don’t make points less clear. I’m using them right now, aren’t I? Or… wasn’t I?
“she’s” = “she is”?
“she’s” = “she has”?
Maybe even “she was”?
So yes, cont’ions do make points less clear and even your faked confusion about present vs. past tense is a real issue when using cont’ves.
It’s probably how her family talks (on the relatively rare occasions that they do so). She is also very committed to accuracy, understanding others and having herself understood. Her speech patterns are designed for maximum clarity and reject house she naturally thinks. Also, as a kid, she probably read scientific journals more frequently than she socialized. She talks how she wishes that others would talk. Etc.
Reject House sounds like the best fraternity. Considering the type of ppl most frats accept, it seems to me that being a reject would be a largely positive thing.
Yes, this is my reading also. As a younger person there were times I spoke like this minus the lack of contractions. I do get the sense Dina wants to be respected for her mind, and does not want others to dismiss her for bs reasons. She strikes me as very precise and as someone who seeks precision in social interactions. I am tired and low on spoons so idk if this comment makes sense or adds anything.
i figure the absence of contractions is a way of speaking that dina grew up with and finds comfort in doing. outside sarah, no one has really brought up that dina does not use contractions and i assume that they are okay with the dina speaks, even if they do not completely understand why she does not use contractions.
also i suppose the lack of contractions in how dina talks adds to her characterization and makes her stand out even more amongst all the people at the college.
There’s a family friend who requests that any visitors do not use contractions around his daughters, and especially not “ain’t”. He’s upper-crust with regards to their English skills.
Side-note: He’s a Brit in Thailand, his wife is Thai, so his kids are biracial.
I know other aspies who talk like that. I don’t (see?), but I’m (look – I did it again) very high socially functioning, even if terrified most of the time. It’s Dina’s lack of terror that makes me think she’s not aspie.
I know people who speak like that. While I use contractions all right, I’m often told I should relax, or that I act stilted and strange, when I’m not making a conscious effort to speak in ways that other people perceive as “casual”. (An effort that, ironically enough, is way more taxing and requires more calculations than speaking or writing in the manner people think is more natural. Especially in realtime.)
Dina has explained this before, both to Amber and to Sarah: Dina is afraid of being misunderstood by others, so she speaks very deliberately and exactly in hopes of ensuring understanding.
It’s the same reason I spoke pretty much like that only with far more arcane language (“defenestration” is a word that I have used in conversation, and used to use on a fairly regular basis. Plus it has not been uncommon for people to tell me, “Nobody fucking talks like that! Speak like a normal person!” up until about a year and a half ago, and even then, when I am tired or anxious, I default to a Dina-like style of speech).
To get an idea: I used “arcane” and “ensuring” in those two paragraphs, and I genuinely cannot think of another way to phrase them, and this is me toning my vocabulary down because of the backlash I used to get for it. And with time to re-write and re-phrase things so that my language choices feel more contemporary. You should’ve seen the first draft.
My point: Dina’s speech isn’t weirdly unrealistic. How she talks is how I used to talk all the time, and how I still talk with people that I’m comfortable with or when I am tired.
I think I’m slightly further down the same route. Mainly because, for several years, I have been surrounded by people who just plain don’t know the words I used to use. It helps that I enjoy playing around with language, and have learnt to fake “normal” talk by parodying it. Remember Penny, with her class-rollercoaster of Britishisms? I have friends with whom I’ve had entire conversations in that style.
Looking at Dina’s behaviors, it seems likely that she has a mild form of Autism Spectrum Disorder. With her misunderstanding of social norms, her obsession with dinosaurs and her difficulty in making conversation, I think it fits best. Before the DSM 5 was released, she probably would’ve been diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome; but as of now would fall under the umbrella of ASD. Here’s a link to the CDC website that lists the DSM 5 symptoms of ASD: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html
if it weren’t for people bringing it up, either in the story or in the comments, i probably never would have noticed her lack of contractions.
this probably either means i’m super open minded about people’s differences or super bad at noticing things.
It sounds like the way someone such as Dina, who wants to be understood with clarity, would speak to try to ensure it is easy to understand.
And, while you are autistic and do speak normally, other people with autism will not necessarily have the exact same capabilities with speech as you – I knew five people with autism in my last couple of years of high school and none of them had the same level of communication skills or same way of speaking.
I personally do not find it much of a stretch that an autistic person, such as Dina, might speak rigidly, while another, such as yourself, might not.
When working as a volunteer, I encountered someone who was apparently incapable of talking without using “advanced” vocabulary. Like this:
“Would you like a drink?”
[in a whisper] “Hydration is not required but the offer is appreciated.”
I don’t think he was putting it on. I actually quite liked the guy.
I saw that about AS. And that’s part of the ‘problem’ with a spectrum disorder, so many different ways it can present itself, and varying degrees within the symptoms itself. Plus, I do like the part about Hydration. If I was ever to use that line, which I’ve probably have before, it’d be as a multi-layered joke.
“Huh? Oh. Some variety of non-alcoholic beverage, while while it would be appreciated, is not at this point absolutely necessary as I am not in any danger of dehydration.” is a sentence I have used in conversation before, in response to, “Do you need a drink?”
Because at that point I did not yet realize that people use “Do you need a drink?” interchangeably with, “Have you received a drink yet?”
I’m not on any spectrum that I’m aware of, and I’ve learned to use contractions. But I don’t like them. I am much more likely to use them in print than in speech because I just don’t like the way they sound.
As someone with ASD, who is married to someone ASD, and who works with children with ASD for a living, I’d like to remind you that different people on the spectrum manifest it in different ways. Just because a specific behavior is not something you have engaged in as a person with ASD does not mean it is or is not a behavior that can result from it.
I myself talked very much like Data from Star Trek up until my late teens. I’ve seen a number of similar and other unusual verbal mannerisms in many of the ASD children and teens I have worked with over the years.
say goodbye to amber for a two weeks, there’s still a lot to cover till tomorrow to keep you busy. in the mean time here’s a copy of the url to mikes secret fanfic page, it’s almost exclusively bad (in a good way) romance stories curiously enough.
The big purple guy is the one Tailgate’s been orbiting around romantically for almost the entire series (it hasn’t happened mostly because Cyclonus is possessed of a ridiculously low opinion of himself, but if they both survive the current arc, I can’t see that not coming to a head, soon – if it doesn’t, I’m going to reach through the fourth wall and smack Cyclonus until his other horn falls off).
Hey cool, somebody was wondering about this very concern last night. Well done, Dina. She may not read social cues, but she is on point re: thinking of others’ emotional needs.
Surely there is no way that this could create problems! I’m sure that everything Amber does will be perfectly reasonable, and not detrimental to herself at all!
…. does Ryan count as people? Because I can almost right a fic where Amazi-girl really really really needs to lash out at someone and renews her efforts to hunt him down.
Willis writes these weeks ahead of time, right? I love how he managed to anticipate (maybe unintentionally) a lot of the commentators asking whether what Dina’s doing in shielding Amber is good for Amber.
I think I have said it before (and possibly others too) that Willis quite likely is a time traveler. It would explain so many things, after all.
True, most of those things can also be explained in ways that do not break our current understanding of the space-time continuum, but I’m pretty sure that “being very, very good at understanding humanity at its worst and most awkward” doesn’t sound nearly as… Actually, that -does- sound rather impressive, now that I think about it.
dina is the only good character in this entire fucking comic. delete every character besides dina and people dina likes and dumbing of age becomes the worlds first perfect webcomic. at the moment its almost there but people keep annoying dina. if there were no characters in this strip that dina disliked, this comic would be even closer to perfection. can’t emphasize enough how important dina is to me here mister willis.
One, your current avatar is very, very appropriate.
Two, might it be that you harbour feelings towards the world in general that are similar to how Dina feels? If so, I can’t say I blame you. If not, apologies for being a fool.
sir please this comment was about my superficial gay love for dina i wouldnt mind a webcomic that was nothing but dina being unexceptional and boring. also many characters that dina likes are very dumb, keeping her exceptional. there is nothing that would make my first idea bad in my opinion. thank you.
At the very least it doesn’t seem like Amber is engaging in self-destructive habits at the moment (is she really writing fanfic?) so some alone time for one day seems like a fair request.
I think it’s good that Dina is at least willing to question her own willingness to help Amber isolate herself and is also essentially saying that she cares more about Amber’s health than Amber’s will. It takes some of the worry out of the possibility of the “I owe you” mentality that Dina has clouding her judgement.
Well, Grav Roulette, you’ve certainly redeemed yourself after last night, which we shan’t mention again.
Yes, Jason’s a background character, but I always found him relatable in Walkiverse (except for his part in the Britja storyline). In terms of ability, he was the everyman, getting by on his wits, steady nerves, self-control, and ability to surround himself with people who can actually do his job at the same time they do theirs. I’m told that makes him officer material.
In terms of character, he was the straight man (which I mean in terms of seriousness rather than orientation), the responsible guy. Always left high and dry socially and almost always striking out in love. Perceived as a square and too mature to be anyone’s peer. Always liking an orderly world around him and always striving to obtain it. Uptight and formal, with a wry, sometimes self-pitying sense of humor.
Everything about him was either something I dealt with in my life, or which I aspired to. Except for the accent and British phrasings. Those were just fun.
Here in DoA, he’s even more relatable to me in his grad student role. I’ve been the Calculus TA, watching young students run face-first into a meat-grinder of a class. I’ve been a tutor who doesn’t know how to make that connection. (I got better.) I had major hots for a student. (Fortunately I kept it under control better than he did. I don’t thinks she ever noticed. Then again she didn’t whip off her top and climb into my lap in the middle of a tutoring session, so I can’t actually claim to have succeeded where he failed.) I lamented my inability to help every student in my section. I’ve lamented how little desire they had to accept my help. I’ve thought of myself as a good teacher and then been forced to question that evaluation. At the end of the day, I ended up caring more about that than most of my peers… and then discovered that the system doesn’t really work when I care too much. I kept my objectivity when I wrote out the grades of students I cared about and it hurt far more than if I hadn’t cared.
Jason’s in a time and place where he can do something about his concerns. He can take a class on adult teaching — pretty much ever department would encourage their teaching or TAing grad students to do so. He can volunteer to be a tutor and get coaching in tutoring from the campus tutoring center. He doesn’t know HOW to fix his problems, but he’s recognizing them, acknowledging them, worrying about them, and not dismissing them.
… He also sucks with the ladies and, rightly, thinks that no one wants to be his friend. My own isolation is a bit more about problems in my head than about an unattractively uptight personality, but I still definitely relate.
While I was searching for Walky, Jason was my #2 pick. They both speak to different, even opposite, sides of me. I am strongly tempted to call off the search here and now.
But… Jason’s not enough of a goofball to completely represent me.
I think I want to have a Walky Grav AND a Jason Grav, and be able to switch them up to reflect the mood of any given post. That would be PERFECT. So the search will continue, but I will definitely retain this hash.
Jason is a very, very good find. Thank you, Grav Roulette, from the bottom of my heart.
i talk like dina when im new around someone, or uncomfortable. a classmate said i spoke like how books are written. its that or strong new jersey slang. no middle ground
Casting Ruth as Ruth wouldn’t work at all. It just wouldn’t be believable. She’s comes across as much too nice to play Ruth. She’s Canadian for crying out loud.
I’m guessing since she’s said “I’ll talk with Ethan tomorrow” she might be willing to contact him and reach out if Amber’s getting worrisomely reclusive. But we’ll see.
One hopes so, but even people who are fully capable of, and comfortable with, reading other people’s emotional states, and don’t have issues with people ignoring other people’s agency due to different mental states, often fail to intervene in situations like this.
Dina seems to be aware of Amber’s dissociation and is now expressing concern that she shouldn’t be letting Amber stay alone. If this were to continue tomorrow then Dina would have evidence that she probably needs to intervene, and that Danny and Ethan were right to be concerned about her.
*Pauses, then aggressively flaps at people complaining about Dina not using contractions*
Anyway, good old “Yes I know they’re concerned but I can’t handle them right now so I’ll put it off until tomorrow”. Been there. Done that. And then when you’re not up to peopleing tomorrow, it gets… fun.
Also, glad Dina is very much catching on to “Okay, this many people is worrying” and will probably be there to call her on it if she’s not up for peopleing tomorrow. I probably could have used the roommate to intercede before I went full anxiety lockdown, honestly.
Yeah. It’s bad because Amber needs to be deal with the breakup without relying on Amazi-Girl, but trying to lock everyone out for a day because she’s fuming isn’t really that terrible a move.
She’s taking Dina’s concern to heart, I think. She makes it clear that tomorrow she’ll talk to Ethan, but right now she just wants to be alone, and that’s a pretty natural reaction for me when I get into modes.
At least she does identify a possible issue, and wants to help, along an escalating path. If Amber gets worse today, or isn’t better tomorrow, I figure Dina has a few people she’d be reaching out for assistance.
Flaps? An entirely sensible reaction. I am currently in self-imposed exile from Facebook to stop myself ranting in situations where I’d’ve been better off flailing at the air in dismay and switching my computer off.
Form of stimming where you flap your hands up and down like a bird. Commonly associated with autism. I don’t usually use that method myself but sometimes I just really need to assert my “I exist and am perfectly fine on my own terms, so THERE”-ness.
And yeah, I’ve got hope that if things do start a negative feedback loop Dina has the resources and awareness to try and intervene.
Is…it just your hands or are your arms involved? Though I probably have some weird stimming as well, I just can’t picture it. Well, one I can. I can only pace in a counter-clockwise motion. And when under stress I can only walk around objects the same way, even if it’s quicker to go the other way. Maybe not stimming.
I don’t see her lack of contractions as an issue. I don’t see it as a possible future diagnosis. I see it as a quirk of who she is. If it helps, she’s in good company.
Okay. I obviously did that wrong. I haven’t tried to add a link in these comments very often. I was simply referencing the wonderful Miss Faye Whitaker.
Amber seem to have acquired pants. And she is in Dina’s company and writes horrible fanfic instead of being outside doing horrible things as Amaziegirl. This is somewhat positive!
I think she was just wearing shorts the whole time. In the previous panel, we only see her legs from knees down. In this one, we only see her hips. There’s no contradiction.
It’s mostly because Amber thinks she’s incapable of dealing with things because she’s convinced she’s inherently violent and worthless, and that every mistake she makes is more proof to that thought process and why she needs Amazi-Girl to be angry for her.
I stop using contractions when I am stressed, or having a bad mental day. When I am like that, speech patterns tend to fall apart and I have trouble making myself understood. On really bad days, I just can’t put sentences together at all.
My SO has Asperger’s/spectrumy NOS and I fell over when Dina first came into the comic because she’s SO MUCH LIKE him, voice patterns and all. Dinos aren’t his thing and he does use contractions – the cadence and literalness though! He started reading the comic too and Dina is his favorite. He says she’s relatable. So whether or not she’s meant to be autistic, I think she’s an awesome character in terms of her portrayal of a non-neurotypical, and her strengths as a person are the ones I love in my SO, too, which is cool.
So it should translate well into French. And even better into French comics, which have all the contractions from formal written French plus dozens of informal slangy ones. I’ve seen pages where the dialogue was about 33% apostrophes.
It’s actually not that clear how far Amber’s dissociation has gotten. I think it’s all but outright stated that she has DID, but we don’t know how Amber assigns things between her alters.
I mean, I think at this point it can’t not be DID.
Like, that last line Amazi-Girl had about how Sal had “taken her sanity, my dignity, and our Danny,” how Amber’s PTSD over Sal caused her to immediately become Amazi-Girl; who responds to Danny calling her Amber by telling him that he’s wrong to refer to her as such, she gets angry at Danny for kissing her when she’s Amber because he dates Amazi-Girl and Amber isn’t her, and then she talks about how Amber thought she was going to die but couldn’t stop because it wasn’t her who was hurt, it was Amazi-Girl, and Amazi-Girl can’t stop.
The way I’m seeing it is that Amazi-Girl is approaching the same ideas as Anti-Joyce from It’s Walky! in that she’s the literalization of repressed emotion, only because it’s a more grounded universe that manifests as Dissociative Identity Disorder rather than being a sex-hungry clone.
I guess it depends on your definition of “alter.” If you mean fully dissociated states, with the included memory problems, then we’ve not seen that.
However, she definitely treats AG and Amber as two different people. Heck, the whole reason for the question is that she has gotten upset when that separation was not maintained by others. She’s even at times said she’s afraid of what AG will do. She maintains that Amber beat up her dad, not AG, despite being in costume.
Plus then there’s the meta stuff, like the rosy cheeks and the different tags, which also do not only correspond to when she is in costume.
Since she does actually switch, I personally consider them alters.
There are two possibilities in my mind–she dissociates more when she’s angry or scared, or she’s been dissociating more over time due to her psychological state getting worse. Probably some of both.
If we see her react negatively to this, I would definitely consider that she had gotten significantly worse.
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Why… why does Dina talk like this, anyway?
Like, I get she doesn’t get social norms, doesn’t understand people and stuff, but she talks like a robot. She’s, what, 18? She’s been alive long enough that, even if she’s autistic (and I’m speaking from experience here, I’ve struggled with my autism and social anxiety my whole life), she’d be able to at least talk like a regular human being.
I’m not trying to bag on Willis’ writing, I’m sure there’s a REASON for it, but… what IS the reason? There’s a point where it becomes weirdly unrealistic how she speaks, even if she doesn’t interact with people much.
My point? Use some contractions, girl.
Willis has said she has a disorder but won’t say which one.
That’s definitely not what I’ve said.
And Dina speaks like me when I was 25. My future wife had to work with me very hard to use contractions.
…….
Okay, I know that she had your twins for you, but still, PHRASING.
Oddly enough, I got it on the first pass, and had to reread it to understand the issue.
I thought your twins were delivered by Caesarean (no contractions).
That’s why it was so hard.
Willis I love you but this just raises more questions
For one why did you talk like that
Essentially the same reasons Dina gave when she and Sarah discussed her contractions earlier in this very webcomic.
I keep forgetting that existed
Ah well, thanks for clearing that up.
Since I can’t remember that conversation, and somehow can’t find it in the Dina+Sarah tag, can you (or somebody) repeat the reason?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/04-walking-with-dina/contractions/
Thanks.
I, too, found that useful.
Interestingly, almost exactly one year before this comic.
So that’s where the cigar was.
25? I would have been following you by then… I’m pretty sure you posted with contractions…
Posted yes, but spoken? Sometimes they just don’t match. Like kids these days who speak proper English but do all their internet talking with emoteecons and emojees and stuff.
it’s like they say
;~; 8=====D
Um, I don’t know what you’re saying there, and I think I’m better for it.
A horse with a springboard on his head?
I think a horse is closer to 8===========D
A frog next to a penis?
It’s like they say, confused cry at penises… Penii?
If you what to be technical, the proper plural is “penes”. Latin nouns that end with -is are usually a special case of the third (short e) declension, and trade that “i” for an “e” in the plural. (And while we’re at it, most nouns with -us are masculine second (long o) declension, and only switch out the “us” for ONE i)
Salve, mi amice / mea amica!
thatsapenis.gif
I went through a period where I did the opposite: speech was pretty regular but in writing I got very formal, didn’t use contractions, etc. and for the same reasons. When it seems like everyone somehow “misunderstands” you all the time you go to extremes to be as clear as possible.
I find myself not using contractions as much as i used to because at my current job it makes it easier for the person on the phone to understand me.
You didn’t use contractions? Were you at least fully functional, programmed in multiple techniques?
What about being anatomically correct?
Beat me to it!!! 😀
I saw one of the writers of that episode at a con shortly after it aired. He said that the writers joked that Data had three speeds: “Slow, medium, and OH MY GOD!!”
Apparently they also had a pet name for Lwaxana Troi, and it was “Twin Peaks”.
But weren’t you under 25 when you were writing TF: WW? I could have sworn there were contractions in those. I mean, Rumble had lines. Rattrap too. Blame it on Picard? (I miss those, thinking of them gives me nostalgia, they were great reads to me).
I mean, I can’t remember you using a contraction on IRC in #wiigii or #tfww. But I also honestly wouldn’t remember if you had to be honest. I’m not as perceptive as Sarah is.
So you (Willis) talked like her, or you just didn’t use contractions? The latter is easy to believe. But actually speaking more formally? That’s hard to believe. You’re too good at sounding casual now.
Unless it’s only how you type and not how you speak…
What he’s said is that she hasn’t been diagnosed with anything.
Well I now see the way to summon Willis into the comments. I’ve rarely come across how to summon just his presence, or wake, if you will. Normally I’m around after the hammer comes down.
Do not call up who you cannot put down.
English could be her 2nd language.
I watch a lot of the news programming from NHK, and I’ve noticed that in Asia (and in Hong Kong in particular) there are a lot of people who speak English even as a FIRST language, but their culture means they approach it very formally, much more so than we do in the West.
Very sensible. And then ESL-ers pick up our bad habits in conversations rather than beyond the textbooks.
*not rather, but instead of.
See, bad English habits
The way native speakers speak is not “bad habits”.
It is if you care about the formalities of English as it’s currently designed (which you don’t have to do, but I happen to anyway)
I recall a joke from a British comedian where he said that he wasn’t speaking with an accent, it’s just what the language sounds like when spoken correctly.
i am pretty sure that wasn’t a joke.
Was that Eddie Izzard? I remember seeing footage from one of his US shows where he was playing up the whole “pedantic English snob” thing.
Fun fact, apparently the “real” way of speaking English is not the one in UK but the one found in some parts of USA, since the pilgrims brought it over and has ever since remained unchanged, whereas UK has seen it change over time.
Not that it matters since it’s all English at the end of the day.
I like that you said “it’s all English at the end of the day.”
At the beginning of the day it’s all growling and nonverbal communication until coffee or whatever.
Yup; I remember that set. I’m pretty sure it was the same one with the line about “Herbs… because it’s got a fucking ‘H’ in it.” Which is pretty much when I stand up and cheer, lol.
Nah, it wasn’t Eddie. The guy had a half hour special on Comedy Central Presents like 15 years ago. It was like his third line in his set. It was a joke in the snark sense of the word.
Hong Kong was British territory from 1841 until 1997, so it makes sense that English is so prolific there.
i wondered if english being a second language for dina was a possibility as well
Also, Dina reads way more than she talks to people. It’s not surprising she talks like a (dinosaur) book.
Why does Dina have to be a regular human being?
Because society
society is real damn demanding. what the hell, society?!
Society. Schmociety.
ive been trying to pronounce schmociety for the last 12 minutes
Thanks. Now all that will run through my head is the “sh-muck” scene from Ishtar. Yes. Haven’t seen that movie in over 20 years and somehow my subconscious still has that scene readily available.
OOPS
“Telling the truth can be dangerous business/Honest and popular don’t go hand in hand…”
I don’t recall when I last saw it, but I’m pretty sure the year didn’t start with a 2.
Spoken like a regular human being. So lucky.
I think is is loosely maybe has Asperger’s. Many people who have aspergers/are “on the spectrum” remind me of Dina. It’s pretty realistic actually once you consider that.
My impression is that Dina has undiagnosed ASD/Asperger’s as per Word Of God.
If I am erroneous or repeating something I shouldn’t, please step in WillisAs an Assburglar myself I can confirm I do not talk like a robobot. I am a human of flesh and bone and fluids of varying viscosity, just as you are, meat child.
its not robobot anymore! thats outdated! its cyberborg now! thats the neato slang being thrown around these days!
How dare you. That’s our word.
technist…..
Well that’s just rude.
sageress is the rude one, using outdated terminology reserved for insults.
But is it accurate? Does it fit?
I’m allowed to. We’ve reappropriated it to be a word for us to rally behind. You, fleshboy, can’t say it. Especially not with a hard “rg”. “Cyberbah” maybe.
….im a lady…
And I’ve never like reappropriation. A slur’s a slur’s for me.
UNLESS YOU ARE A MINORITY YOU CAN’T COMPLAIN, FLESHBOY
I was diagnosed with Autism over 20 years ago. I was told I’d be a leech on my parents for my entire life. Never get a job, go to college, be able to drive, have a family. Been in the workforce for 20 years, dual degree, driving for nearly 20 years, wife with 2 kids. Every day is hell for me, for the stress I put myself through to just interact with bigots who look down on me. So words like ‘aspies’ and ‘assburglurs’? They hurt, alot. If you are fine using them, good for you. Just not something I can do.
Eh, spectrum. And until I have proof otherwise I’ll just assume you’re a not synth.
sith?! i would never associate with palpatine!
Fallout, not Star Wars.
never played
Ah. Sorry you missed the joke then. Fun RPG series.
i actually countered with my own joke, since synth and sith can sound similar
Didn’t say the counter was bad…
😀 if there is time i can play one of those fallouts
I’d put aside time if you go to play Fallout 4, I’ve barely tackled a third of the map, and barely started to main storyline. I joke that I’m playing the ‘Animal Crossing Edition’.
Hail Sithis.
I too am made of sinews and riboflavin.
i thought there was more, like vitamins and liquids
I’d say more an assortment of elements, but that would be too simple for some. Gotta be at least one person there thinking of quarks.
and i think there’s certain amounts involved, like 35 l of water and traces of 15 other elements
Well now you’re just threatening to bring in transmutation circles. Is there a particular Sin I should watch out for?
wrath is nasty enough to be on the lookout for
As am I!
You both are invited to my next meeting of riboflavin-beings. We will partake of bovine prepared in the traditional manner: heated to a minimum of 344.2611111(repeating) degrees Kelvin over rapidly oxidizing carbon in a metal box. Report to the land ajacent to the rear of my domicile at 18:00 GMT on 20160717. Bring liquid refershments of your choosing.
Must the beverage be introduced in it’s fully technical term, or can I use it’s colloquialism?
I talked like GLaDOS when I was under a lot of pressure. I still do.
I developed a lot of language stims.
“This is just how Dina wants to sound” is perfectly believable to me, as is the idea that she feels that it makes her easier to understand. I remember feeling like written English was my first language, and spoken English a clumsy second at best.
Since you said that you spoke like GLaDOS I’ve read the rest of the comment with it’s voice
HER voice, AGV. If I remember correctly, GLaDOS gets her mind from an uploaded woman, and therefore identifies as female. She may be a crazy, murderous operating system, but that is no reason to use the wrong pronoun. In fact I’d say that’s a reason not to use the wrong pronoun.
Sorry, but “it” is demeaning, and you don’t even have the excuse of a non-binary robot (for which I’d insist on “they”).
Well, at the end of the second game, she deleted Caroline, so “She” is technically dead. Do we have canon confirmation on GlaDOS current pronoun choice?
No, but “it” is the impersonal neuter singular pronoun. It’s weird to use when speaking of someone as a person.
I’m sure there’s probably someone somewhere who prefers “it,” but that’s even less common than several of the new pronouns that haven’t really caught on.
I’m staying out of this conversation.
In this reality Transputer is a thing that exists!
You aren’t helping your case with that “do not” business.
// I’ve never heard it called assburglary before. I’m stealing that one. And asses.
// I think that’s also what Dora should do if Coffee of Doom goes under. Not that she wouldn’t make a good bank robber, but stick with what you know.
i thought assburglar was a literal burglar of asses
Perhaps English is not her first language? That’s usually my assumption when people don’t use contractions. Mila Kunis in the first few seasons of That ’70s Show, for example…
It’s not my assumption, because English isn’t my first language, and I can contract* with the best of’em**. My English education (which back then started at ten years old) almost immediately introduced them, talking about how they are mostly for informal/spoken language. Something that was reinforced by all the movies and TV shows in English that I’d watch (thankfully, my country’s too small to dub everything, so I got subtitles instead).
Granted, the character Mila Kunis almost certainly did not have that same experience, since he grew up in the 60s as a kid, but in these times, I feel fairly confident in saying that most foreign kids today that gets a formal education in English also gets a lot of informal education one way or another.
*Wait, that makes me sounds like I’m a serious bridge player…
**Not to mention than I can contradict with the best of them.
Yes I can. Shut up! See, I contradicted you before you even replied, because I knew you were going to contradict me!
I agree completely.
I admit misgendering GLaDOS cores is an issue i give a damn about, but:
“Mila Kunis”
“he”
Really?
Since Dina isn’t a Japanese name at first glance that doesn’t seem to be the case. On the other hand we’ve only heard her mom Haruka speak, and she apparently speaks the same way as Dina.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-3/04-just-hangin-out-with-my-family/strength/
personally I believe Dina to be second generation, so her parent’s would be ESL and would speak more or less like people are suggesting. due to being raised in America with English as a primary language Dina would be much more fluent, but due to her self imposed poor socialization she wouldn’t change her speech patterns from her parent’s by much.
If I remember correctly, both Dina and her parents have lived their entire lives in the U.S.
She’s said she doesn’t use contractions because she wants to get her point across to people clearly.
I’m sorry, I can’t understand you at all right now. Must be all those contractions.
*She has said she does not use
Does that help?
*The bipedal Earth female has articulated verbally about her calculated avoidance of
I am clearly helpng.
She should join the STOA.
I know plenty of people who have had a normal socialization and suffer from no disorders who have particular mannerisms when speaking which deviates from the norm. Sometimes people just do their thing.
PEOPLE SHOULD CONFORM TO MY DESIRES.
People don’t, and I don’t like that.
i am feel uncomfort, when are we not about me
Never.
>:(
And that’s why I don’t like negative contractions. Half the time I only ever think them, and don’t say/type them. At least with typing if you proofread you can catch the error. Because meaning to say a negative, and not, can drastically affect what you’re saying.
“don’t”
“don’t”
I see a pattern here!
Really sure about half the time?
(You can of course decide to do not use contractions in the near future and follow up with a post where you do not use any of them at least two times, but that is entirely you’re decision!
Because your awesome!
)
Dammit!
Because i’m a pendant!
I think I had the proper use. Perhaps a rewording.
When speaking, there are time where I mean to use the ‘not’ operator but I end up skipping past it, with both contracted and uncontracted. Plus layering them can lead to confusion for some. I have a programming degree, so I can typically parse them out, but for some people, a double negative is a negative, wherein it’s a positive.
My response of ‘Never’ to ML above was meant to invert the phrase, since it was asked about when we not talking about here. The intended meaning was to indicated that we would always talk about here.
I find that tends to happen often, actually. Asking a question with a negative in it, a negative answer should thus make it a positive answer to a positive question, it’s just not taken as such.
Perhaps it is because there are a limited number of ways to show someone as different without using an insulting stereotype or having to have other people keep mentioning that they are different.
That’s… not true. Like, from a writing perspective I’d say that using speech quirks to differentiate characters is a last resort/lazy option, over actual character traits.
The fact that she looks and acts like a 12 year old with a dinosaur fetish is enough to make her different.
And, that’s not true, either. In writing terms, it’s the character’s Voice. I have been to workshops devoted to working on individualizing character voice. It’s an important tool, that can convey much about the character, both true and false, to the reader.
There is a purist school of thought, that says that written language should and must be formal in nature, with no colloquialisms or accents. That disregards how a person or character would speak in real life, in favor of how they SHOULD speak. As they tend to get in fist fights with each other over minor grammar variations, most don’t pay much attention to them.
Wait, *actual* fistfights?
I am aware of a character’s voice being important. But voice != arbitrarily never using contractions. Especially considering just a few comics ago Dina said that Amber’s face “did a thing”. If it was to be consistent, she’d have said something like “her face contorted” or something.
But the face didn’t contort, it ‘did a thing’.
Ah, but it does fit. She doesn’t understand what the face thing is, so it’s a thing. She won’t name it, because she doesn’t know it.
Further, if you read through the comments on this page, you will see that a lot of people are taking information from Dina’s voice, and interpreting it. Not every one get’s the same answers, but it has meaning that they interprate. The way she speaks, the words she uses, the order of how she uses them, all say something.
Removing or altering parts of her voice would change how we see the character. If she used more contractions, we would see her as less stiff, more flexible, and less out of step with the social norms of the rest of the world (if this bunch has any “norms”). We might see her as less “adorkable”, and more someone who seems to be more creepy, due to her tendency to hide behind things.
I always think of it as “He seems to be having some kind of expression.” Expressions of ambiguous or supressed emotion confuse the hell out of me, which is unfortunate as I live in the land of the stiff upper lip.
She used a contraction last page tho
Have you ever read the dialog from the movie “Guys and Dolls”? Damon Runyan, the writer of the stories upon which it was based, often wrote excessively stilted dialog that was very formal and precise and very rarely employed contractions. I see Dina’s Runyanesque speech patterns as merely being another one of her little idiosyncrasies, along the same line as her fixation with dinosaurs.
For emphasis. And clarity. She wants to be understood.
Contractions don’t make points less clear. I’m using them right now, aren’t I? Or… wasn’t I?
Explain that to my college professor, whose favorite red pen mark was circles around apostrophes. Contractions apparently make your essays sound “unprofessional” and “uneducated.” Partly because they make the writing “less clear.” (And yes, that sentence is a poorly-constructed sentence fragment, so I do know that A) English evolves and B) he was full of bullshit and just wanted stilted-sounding papers turned in.)
I am not Asian, not ESL, and have never been diagnosed on the spectrum (though my mom did keep me away from testing when the school insisted, because she “didn’t want me treated any differently than other kids”), but I have quirks of speech to this day, after 36 years struggling to overcome them. It comes from not hearing a lot of people speak, due to being ridiculously isolated from the world.
In academia, speech (especially written) is more formal and sed professor was somewhat in the right to insist on a specific style, as that’s what is required in his social group.
Language may evolve, but academia only takes into account the official, textbook version, which is at times somewhat removed from informal, everyday speech.
It’s a matter of knowing your audience and adapting yourself for sed audience, thereby making yourself more accepted and successful in that circle. Alternatively, challenge him to a debate on the fluidity of language and see if you can sway his opinion… which likely is about as unproductive as it sounds.
If it’s a sed professor, you can just s/n’t/ not/g and so on, and everyone will be happy.
I dunno, I’d find that awk-word.
I’m confused.
Wasn’t I being clear? If you’d’ve payed attention, it’d be clearer what I’d meant. Instead, y’all didn’t stay focused. If you did, I’d needn’t be so repetitive and y’all’d’n’t’ve to face my abbreviative fury.
That I understood.
that was so southern i can smell biscuits and waffles
That’s sounds good. I recommend we stop talking about all this talk and go eat.
yes
Contractions don’t make points less clear. I’m using them right now, aren’t I? Or… wasn’t I?
“she’s” = “she is”?
“she’s” = “she has”?
Maybe even “she was”?
So yes, cont’ions do make points less clear and even your faked confusion about present vs. past tense is a real issue when using cont’ves.
“She’s thirty feet tall!”
You’re right… what if she has thirty feet tall?
And has anybody EVER used “she’s” to mean “she was”? REALLY?
It’s probably how her family talks (on the relatively rare occasions that they do so). She is also very committed to accuracy, understanding others and having herself understood. Her speech patterns are designed for maximum clarity and reject house she naturally thinks. Also, as a kid, she probably read scientific journals more frequently than she socialized. She talks how she wishes that others would talk. Etc.
Reject house? I meant, reflect how she naturally thinks.
Reject House is the WORST fraternity
i thought the worst fraternity was apathy house
It’s neither the worst nor the best. It’s just kinda there.
Apathy house isn’t even a fraternity, no one ever bothered submitting a house charter.
No, it’s the name for people who only saw the last season of House.
Reject House sounds like the best fraternity. Considering the type of ppl most frats accept, it seems to me that being a reject would be a largely positive thing.
Yes, this is my reading also. As a younger person there were times I spoke like this minus the lack of contractions. I do get the sense Dina wants to be respected for her mind, and does not want others to dismiss her for bs reasons. She strikes me as very precise and as someone who seeks precision in social interactions. I am tired and low on spoons so idk if this comment makes sense or adds anything.
Hope you get your spoons!
I saw spoons and was confused, and then I remembered the reference. Spoons are bastards.
I’m glad you said that. (I find it very difficult to talk formally, ie without using contractions…)
i figure the absence of contractions is a way of speaking that dina grew up with and finds comfort in doing. outside sarah, no one has really brought up that dina does not use contractions and i assume that they are okay with the dina speaks, even if they do not completely understand why she does not use contractions.
also i suppose the lack of contractions in how dina talks adds to her characterization and makes her stand out even more amongst all the people at the college.
There’s a family friend who requests that any visitors do not use contractions around his daughters, and especially not “ain’t”. He’s upper-crust with regards to their English skills.
Side-note: He’s a Brit in Thailand, his wife is Thai, so his kids are biracial.
That’s horrible. What a horrible, evil man.
So what’s his opinion on “ain’t never”?
He’d have a conniption.
That aten’t natural.
….is that Granny Weatherwax dialect? As in, “I aten’t dead.”
I recall a coworker normally saying “conniption fit”. It always made me twitch a little.
Dina is Data.
I don’t know if I should agree with you or call you blasphemous.
I know other aspies who talk like that. I don’t (see?), but I’m (look – I did it again) very high socially functioning, even if terrified most of the time. It’s Dina’s lack of terror that makes me think she’s not aspie.
/twitch
Perhaps when she was younger she was berated by peers for not being understandable, and it evolved into a compulsion?
I know people who speak like that. While I use contractions all right, I’m often told I should relax, or that I act stilted and strange, when I’m not making a conscious effort to speak in ways that other people perceive as “casual”. (An effort that, ironically enough, is way more taxing and requires more calculations than speaking or writing in the manner people think is more natural. Especially in realtime.)
I know, so much work in trying to sound relaxed.
…
O_Ô
You’re not Ana Chronistic … … Weird …
Dina has explained this before, both to Amber and to Sarah: Dina is afraid of being misunderstood by others, so she speaks very deliberately and exactly in hopes of ensuring understanding.
It’s the same reason I spoke pretty much like that only with far more arcane language (“defenestration” is a word that I have used in conversation, and used to use on a fairly regular basis. Plus it has not been uncommon for people to tell me, “Nobody fucking talks like that! Speak like a normal person!” up until about a year and a half ago, and even then, when I am tired or anxious, I default to a Dina-like style of speech).
To get an idea: I used “arcane” and “ensuring” in those two paragraphs, and I genuinely cannot think of another way to phrase them, and this is me toning my vocabulary down because of the backlash I used to get for it. And with time to re-write and re-phrase things so that my language choices feel more contemporary. You should’ve seen the first draft.
My point: Dina’s speech isn’t weirdly unrealistic. How she talks is how I used to talk all the time, and how I still talk with people that I’m comfortable with or when I am tired.
I think I’m slightly further down the same route. Mainly because, for several years, I have been surrounded by people who just plain don’t know the words I used to use. It helps that I enjoy playing around with language, and have learnt to fake “normal” talk by parodying it. Remember Penny, with her class-rollercoaster of Britishisms? I have friends with whom I’ve had entire conversations in that style.
Looking at Dina’s behaviors, it seems likely that she has a mild form of Autism Spectrum Disorder. With her misunderstanding of social norms, her obsession with dinosaurs and her difficulty in making conversation, I think it fits best. Before the DSM 5 was released, she probably would’ve been diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome; but as of now would fall under the umbrella of ASD. Here’s a link to the CDC website that lists the DSM 5 symptoms of ASD: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html
if it weren’t for people bringing it up, either in the story or in the comments, i probably never would have noticed her lack of contractions.
this probably either means i’m super open minded about people’s differences or super bad at noticing things.
It sounds like the way someone such as Dina, who wants to be understood with clarity, would speak to try to ensure it is easy to understand.
And, while you are autistic and do speak normally, other people with autism will not necessarily have the exact same capabilities with speech as you – I knew five people with autism in my last couple of years of high school and none of them had the same level of communication skills or same way of speaking.
I personally do not find it much of a stretch that an autistic person, such as Dina, might speak rigidly, while another, such as yourself, might not.
When working as a volunteer, I encountered someone who was apparently incapable of talking without using “advanced” vocabulary. Like this:
“Would you like a drink?”
[in a whisper] “Hydration is not required but the offer is appreciated.”
I don’t think he was putting it on. I actually quite liked the guy.
Consider: He was an alien?
We’re all aliens. Well, except for Amazi-stool and that’s because she’s a pendant.
I saw that about AS. And that’s part of the ‘problem’ with a spectrum disorder, so many different ways it can present itself, and varying degrees within the symptoms itself. Plus, I do like the part about Hydration. If I was ever to use that line, which I’ve probably have before, it’d be as a multi-layered joke.
Hi this is me when I am tired or comfortable.
“Huh? Oh. Some variety of non-alcoholic beverage, while while it would be appreciated, is not at this point absolutely necessary as I am not in any danger of dehydration.” is a sentence I have used in conversation before, in response to, “Do you need a drink?”
Because at that point I did not yet realize that people use “Do you need a drink?” interchangeably with, “Have you received a drink yet?”
I am guessing she’s from Clan space originally.
Scientist caste, obviously. I mean, could you really see her pilot an OmniMech?
I’m not on any spectrum that I’m aware of, and I’ve learned to use contractions. But I don’t like them. I am much more likely to use them in print than in speech because I just don’t like the way they sound.
She’s Laura Kinney, save the claws and the traumatic life.
Well, that we know of.
her parents talk the same way, i think?
it might just be a family thing.
As someone with ASD, who is married to someone ASD, and who works with children with ASD for a living, I’d like to remind you that different people on the spectrum manifest it in different ways. Just because a specific behavior is not something you have engaged in as a person with ASD does not mean it is or is not a behavior that can result from it.
I myself talked very much like Data from Star Trek up until my late teens. I’ve seen a number of similar and other unusual verbal mannerisms in many of the ASD children and teens I have worked with over the years.
Amber: “Really? Say the Flintstones was a documentary.”
Dina: “That is one of the things.”
“The Jetsons were a documentary as well.”
“It quite thoroughly documents society’s poor understanding of, or more accurately apathy towards, prehistorical truth.”
Or Zeerust.
Noted.
“Destry Sal!”
“What?”
“Nothing..”
Oh no not another Gate.
-The Order of the Stick
What Gate?
Watergate.
Stargate.
thestralgate
It is a FARgate, because it goes FAR.
in the scape?
And then she learns Becky hangs toilet paper the wrong way.
“Screw it, now you’re in my debt.”
For me, the wrong way is the right way. But I’ve had cats that like to bat at it, so to minimize the mess, it had to be that way.
Aww. This situation is fucked up from so many angles I love it.
say goodbye to amber for a two weeks, there’s still a lot to cover till tomorrow to keep you busy. in the mean time here’s a copy of the url to mikes secret fanfic page, it’s almost exclusively bad (in a good way) romance stories curiously enough.
More than enough time for Mike to rebound-seduce Danny.
You know it’s bad when your ex girlfriend would rather talk to Mike instead of you.
I think you know it’s bad when Mike is involved in any capacity whatsoever.
It’s a teenage college drama comic. You know things are bad period.
That’s more of a good kind of bad, but I’d likely rethink that if I was in a comic with him.
In addition to Tailgate, who is tagged, I think I see Cyclonus, Whirl, and Windblade. I have all of those!
Tailgate is the one on the desk then, I take it?
That’s Windblade. Tailgate’s the little blue and white guy in front on the dresser.
The one that the big purple guy is RIGHT BEHIND?
…..
Tailgate is getting tailgated. Well played, Willis.
Amber’s posing them for a Cygate fanfic. :3 (Google “Cygate Transformers” with Safe Search off. I dare you. :D)
The big purple guy is the one Tailgate’s been orbiting around romantically for almost the entire series (it hasn’t happened mostly because Cyclonus is possessed of a ridiculously low opinion of himself, but if they both survive the current arc, I can’t see that not coming to a head, soon – if it doesn’t, I’m going to reach through the fourth wall and smack Cyclonus until his other horn falls off).
Yeah, I ship it too.
Tailgate is over on the dresser with Cyclonus and Whirl. Windblade is on the desk.
No. Tailgate’s a tiny teal and white bot. The one on the desk is someone else.
Becky/Dina will never die Willis, never!
Oh, Dina’s got a big lashing-out scene in her future…
That’s the reason why I consider Dina one of the best character from this webcomic.
I’d fault Dina for this, but no I know that feeling all too well. ~<3
Hey cool, somebody was wondering about this very concern last night. Well done, Dina. She may not read social cues, but she is on point re: thinking of others’ emotional needs.
Surely there is no way that this could create problems! I’m sure that everything Amber does will be perfectly reasonable, and not detrimental to herself at all!
There’s no way that people will het hurt from this!
None whatsoever!
…. does Ryan count as people? Because I can almost right a fic where Amazi-girl really really really needs to lash out at someone and renews her efforts to hunt him down.
*write. Curse you creative brain for taking over my precise analytical motor control functions.
your gravatar would be disappointed
Dina is just adorable in this strip… a slightly depressing kind of adorable, but adorable nonetheless
Willis writes these weeks ahead of time, right? I love how he managed to anticipate (maybe unintentionally) a lot of the commentators asking whether what Dina’s doing in shielding Amber is good for Amber.
I think I have said it before (and possibly others too) that Willis quite likely is a time traveler. It would explain so many things, after all.
True, most of those things can also be explained in ways that do not break our current understanding of the space-time continuum, but I’m pretty sure that “being very, very good at understanding humanity at its worst and most awkward” doesn’t sound nearly as… Actually, that -does- sound rather impressive, now that I think about it.
Eh, I think he just knows the vocal part of his audience.
dina is the only good character in this entire fucking comic. delete every character besides dina and people dina likes and dumbing of age becomes the worlds first perfect webcomic. at the moment its almost there but people keep annoying dina. if there were no characters in this strip that dina disliked, this comic would be even closer to perfection. can’t emphasize enough how important dina is to me here mister willis.
Who does Dina like? Becky, Amber, Sarah, I’d say Ethan but has he committed the sin of Pterodactyl?
I think she’s technically ok with Joyce. Aside from the whole “creationist vs. scientist” schtick that they have, they get along pretty well.
One, your current avatar is very, very appropriate.
Two, might it be that you harbour feelings towards the world in general that are similar to how Dina feels? If so, I can’t say I blame you. If not, apologies for being a fool.
Love the name, Emperor Norton II. Great reference.
Are you from San Francisco?
He owns San Francisco.
But perfection is boring. Chaos is interesting.
so said ledger’s joker.
” if there were no characters in this strip that dina disliked, this comic would be” – boring!
Sorry to break it to you, but Dumbing of Age really benefits on its basic premise: Almost all people in the cast are dumb!
Therefore the one exception – Dina – has to remain exceptional to keep the comic interesting.
sir please this comment was about my superficial gay love for dina i wouldnt mind a webcomic that was nothing but dina being unexceptional and boring. also many characters that dina likes are very dumb, keeping her exceptional. there is nothing that would make my first idea bad in my opinion. thank you.
At the very least it doesn’t seem like Amber is engaging in self-destructive habits at the moment (is she really writing fanfic?) so some alone time for one day seems like a fair request.
She’s working on the rough draft of Amazi-Girl’s suicide note.
*tugs collar* errgh.
So long as Amber keeps living, in a non-technical way, that wouldn’t be too bad.
Is it safe to say that we’ve called it yet, that Dina will probably end up sheltering Amber/Amazigirl beyond reasonability/safety?
I’m not sure. She is growing concerned, which I think means it might still go too far, but not as much so as it could.
I think it’s good that Dina is at least willing to question her own willingness to help Amber isolate herself and is also essentially saying that she cares more about Amber’s health than Amber’s will. It takes some of the worry out of the possibility of the “I owe you” mentality that Dina has clouding her judgement.
Yeah I’d argue that Dina’s dialogue could foreshadow some pretty awful enabling behavior
I approve of Amber’s choice in decorative Transformers. Windblade is definitely the translator of the computer.
Well, Grav Roulette, you’ve certainly redeemed yourself after last night, which we shan’t mention again.
Yes, Jason’s a background character, but I always found him relatable in Walkiverse (except for his part in the Britja storyline). In terms of ability, he was the everyman, getting by on his wits, steady nerves, self-control, and ability to surround himself with people who can actually do his job at the same time they do theirs. I’m told that makes him officer material.
In terms of character, he was the straight man (which I mean in terms of seriousness rather than orientation), the responsible guy. Always left high and dry socially and almost always striking out in love. Perceived as a square and too mature to be anyone’s peer. Always liking an orderly world around him and always striving to obtain it. Uptight and formal, with a wry, sometimes self-pitying sense of humor.
Everything about him was either something I dealt with in my life, or which I aspired to. Except for the accent and British phrasings. Those were just fun.
Here in DoA, he’s even more relatable to me in his grad student role. I’ve been the Calculus TA, watching young students run face-first into a meat-grinder of a class. I’ve been a tutor who doesn’t know how to make that connection. (I got better.) I had major hots for a student. (Fortunately I kept it under control better than he did. I don’t thinks she ever noticed. Then again she didn’t whip off her top and climb into my lap in the middle of a tutoring session, so I can’t actually claim to have succeeded where he failed.) I lamented my inability to help every student in my section. I’ve lamented how little desire they had to accept my help. I’ve thought of myself as a good teacher and then been forced to question that evaluation. At the end of the day, I ended up caring more about that than most of my peers… and then discovered that the system doesn’t really work when I care too much. I kept my objectivity when I wrote out the grades of students I cared about and it hurt far more than if I hadn’t cared.
Jason’s in a time and place where he can do something about his concerns. He can take a class on adult teaching — pretty much ever department would encourage their teaching or TAing grad students to do so. He can volunteer to be a tutor and get coaching in tutoring from the campus tutoring center. He doesn’t know HOW to fix his problems, but he’s recognizing them, acknowledging them, worrying about them, and not dismissing them.
… He also sucks with the ladies and, rightly, thinks that no one wants to be his friend. My own isolation is a bit more about problems in my head than about an unattractively uptight personality, but I still definitely relate.
While I was searching for Walky, Jason was my #2 pick. They both speak to different, even opposite, sides of me. I am strongly tempted to call off the search here and now.
But… Jason’s not enough of a goofball to completely represent me.
I think I want to have a Walky Grav AND a Jason Grav, and be able to switch them up to reflect the mood of any given post. That would be PERFECT. So the search will continue, but I will definitely retain this hash.
Jason is a very, very good find. Thank you, Grav Roulette, from the bottom of my heart.
😀
That was awesome.
You gave a Cerberus style post, for a randomly assigned Gravatar pic. I don’t know if I should be scared or impressed.
no reason you cant be both
Good to know.
😀
I’m impressed!
Looove Dina’s pose in the first panel.
I wonder if the next strip is going to start with a “However…”
i talk like dina when im new around someone, or uncomfortable. a classmate said i spoke like how books are written. its that or strong new jersey slang. no middle ground
Amazi-girl the movie trailer 2
V O: this fall, one woman will rise
amazi-girl: hey you!
V O: to protect the city
Amazi-girl: breaking and entering is illegal
V O: and bongo about nerd stuff
Amazi-girl: Also you put star scream next to the autobots when he’s clearly marked with a decepticon logo.
criminal: fuck transformers!
amazi girl punches the robber and puts the toy in its proper place.
V O: however when a new challenger steps into the ring she’ll have to be on her toes
Drunk biker: hey hottie. (starts stroking sals but)
Sal: (stabs the bikers hand through the table and puts a cigarette out in the wound)
shows flashes of sal fighting bikers, shows sal kick a biker off his bike and shot another.
flashes to amazi-girl and sal in the middle of the street.
amazi-girl: who are you? what are you doing here?
sal: (shoots a guy running up on amazi-girl) a better job than you.
Becky: this biker chick is big news.
danny: you know I worry about you when you put that mask on.
amber: (hands him a needle) just sow me up.
Crime boss: Wait, I didn’t want to kill your brother but-
sal shoots the crime boss.
walky: you know I get the idea something really bads about to happen
Que epic music, show space cannon
Fez: the great fez will use space lazer to make al girls horny for fez.
Becky: NOOOOOO!
coming to a theater near you this fall.
Amazi-girl spins around and punches the screen, cut to black.
September 22
all rights reserved by sony pictures and DW comics
buy your tickets online at http://www.lazyprick.com/movie
not a real website, it’s a joke. I don’t know why it made it a link.
Because the parser can’t tell the difference between a properly formatted fake link and a real one.
Rule 34 says it will be registered within HOURS.
Now I really, really want to see this movie.
who would be cast as ruth?
it’s just supposed to be the characters as themselves
got it
Casting Ruth as Ruth wouldn’t work at all. It just wouldn’t be believable. She’s comes across as much too nice to play Ruth. She’s Canadian for crying out loud.
Awwwwwwwwwwww.
I wonder how Dina will react when Amber inevitably comes up with excuses to continue to avoid everyone.
I’m guessing since she’s said “I’ll talk with Ethan tomorrow” she might be willing to contact him and reach out if Amber’s getting worrisomely reclusive. But we’ll see.
One hopes so, but even people who are fully capable of, and comfortable with, reading other people’s emotional states, and don’t have issues with people ignoring other people’s agency due to different mental states, often fail to intervene in situations like this.
I dunno, I’m optimistic.
Dina seems to be aware of Amber’s dissociation and is now expressing concern that she shouldn’t be letting Amber stay alone. If this were to continue tomorrow then Dina would have evidence that she probably needs to intervene, and that Danny and Ethan were right to be concerned about her.
Or maybe when Amber says I don’t want to deal with it today, but I should be able to tommorow, that’s actually the case.
“Just a sec, killing spiders.”
Gaming nerds. Am I right?
*Scrolls up to first comment thread*
*Pauses, then aggressively flaps at people complaining about Dina not using contractions*
Anyway, good old “Yes I know they’re concerned but I can’t handle them right now so I’ll put it off until tomorrow”. Been there. Done that. And then when you’re not up to peopleing tomorrow, it gets… fun.
Also, glad Dina is very much catching on to “Okay, this many people is worrying” and will probably be there to call her on it if she’s not up for peopleing tomorrow. I probably could have used the roommate to intercede before I went full anxiety lockdown, honestly.
Yeah. It’s bad because Amber needs to be deal with the breakup without relying on Amazi-Girl, but trying to lock everyone out for a day because she’s fuming isn’t really that terrible a move.
She’s taking Dina’s concern to heart, I think. She makes it clear that tomorrow she’ll talk to Ethan, but right now she just wants to be alone, and that’s a pretty natural reaction for me when I get into modes.
Flaps?
At least she does identify a possible issue, and wants to help, along an escalating path. If Amber gets worse today, or isn’t better tomorrow, I figure Dina has a few people she’d be reaching out for assistance.
Flaps? An entirely sensible reaction. I am currently in self-imposed exile from Facebook to stop myself ranting in situations where I’d’ve been better off flailing at the air in dismay and switching my computer off.
Form of stimming where you flap your hands up and down like a bird. Commonly associated with autism. I don’t usually use that method myself but sometimes I just really need to assert my “I exist and am perfectly fine on my own terms, so THERE”-ness.
And yeah, I’ve got hope that if things do start a negative feedback loop Dina has the resources and awareness to try and intervene.
Is…it just your hands or are your arms involved? Though I probably have some weird stimming as well, I just can’t picture it. Well, one I can. I can only pace in a counter-clockwise motion. And when under stress I can only walk around objects the same way, even if it’s quicker to go the other way. Maybe not stimming.
well I did my own sexy Dumbing of Age drawing
http://imgur.com/Q3C9NfV
Yotomoe:” Are you trying to steal my job?!”
A solid attempt. I don’t think Yotomoe is worried though.
I don’t see her lack of contractions as an issue. I don’t see it as a possible future diagnosis. I see it as a quirk of who she is. If it helps, she’s in good company.
Okay. I obviously did that wrong. I haven’t tried to add a link in these comments very often. I was simply referencing the wonderful Miss Faye Whitaker.
Who, of course, now contracts her coworker’s name
Amber: Good, now get under the desk and service me.
Next Slipshine title: Acceptable Requests!
Amber seem to have acquired pants. And she is in Dina’s company and writes horrible fanfic instead of being outside doing horrible things as Amaziegirl. This is somewhat positive!
I think she was just wearing shorts the whole time. In the previous panel, we only see her legs from knees down. In this one, we only see her hips. There’s no contradiction.
Not in my headcanon, she didn’t. Obviously she scrambled to put on pants while Dina discussed taxonomy with Ethan.
There’s no contradiction.
I read this as “There’s no contraction.”
Because that would be a contradiction right here!
Don’t blame you there. The word ‘contraction’ appears 44 times (counting this one with it). Popular subject on this page.
Panel four Amber is basically me, every day 😐
Amber I highly doubt you can even remember the last time you wanted to deal with anything.
It’s mostly because Amber thinks she’s incapable of dealing with things because she’s convinced she’s inherently violent and worthless, and that every mistake she makes is more proof to that thought process and why she needs Amazi-Girl to be angry for her.
I stop using contractions when I am stressed, or having a bad mental day. When I am like that, speech patterns tend to fall apart and I have trouble making myself understood. On really bad days, I just can’t put sentences together at all.
Contractions are the least of it. Dina even stand and walks formally.
I read her last statement as “I will do this but you are aware this it might not be in your best interest”
Fair.
My SO has Asperger’s/spectrumy NOS and I fell over when Dina first came into the comic because she’s SO MUCH LIKE him, voice patterns and all. Dinos aren’t his thing and he does use contractions – the cadence and literalness though! He started reading the comic too and Dina is his favorite. He says she’s relatable. So whether or not she’s meant to be autistic, I think she’s an awesome character in terms of her portrayal of a non-neurotypical, and her strengths as a person are the ones I love in my SO, too, which is cool.
Agreed.
I love Dina’s hoodie; it was my understanding that everyone had heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184
Famous last words Dina
1. The main punctuation mark in Burn’s poetry is the apostrophe.
Ye ca’na write scottish poetry wi’out it.
2. IBM Documentation standards say avoid contractions (because contractions make it harder for translators).
3. So I guess its hard to find a good translation of Burns in Japanese.
So it should translate well into French. And even better into French comics, which have all the contractions from formal written French plus dozens of informal slangy ones. I’ve seen pages where the dialogue was about 33% apostrophes.
As a former IBM contractor, I have to say that “recommended by IBM documentation standards” is a pretty strong encouragement to do otherwise.
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See 23C-OO054 “Hardware Guide to Comments” p. G-17.
Is Amber going to get upset at Dina saying that she saved Becky, rather than Amazi-Girl doing it?
It’s actually not that clear how far Amber’s dissociation has gotten. I think it’s all but outright stated that she has DID, but we don’t know how Amber assigns things between her alters.
Or indeed if she actually has alters as such.
I mean, I think at this point it can’t not be DID.
Like, that last line Amazi-Girl had about how Sal had “taken her sanity, my dignity, and our Danny,” how Amber’s PTSD over Sal caused her to immediately become Amazi-Girl; who responds to Danny calling her Amber by telling him that he’s wrong to refer to her as such, she gets angry at Danny for kissing her when she’s Amber because he dates Amazi-Girl and Amber isn’t her, and then she talks about how Amber thought she was going to die but couldn’t stop because it wasn’t her who was hurt, it was Amazi-Girl, and Amazi-Girl can’t stop.
The way I’m seeing it is that Amazi-Girl is approaching the same ideas as Anti-Joyce from It’s Walky! in that she’s the literalization of repressed emotion, only because it’s a more grounded universe that manifests as Dissociative Identity Disorder rather than being a sex-hungry clone.
I guess it depends on your definition of “alter.” If you mean fully dissociated states, with the included memory problems, then we’ve not seen that.
However, she definitely treats AG and Amber as two different people. Heck, the whole reason for the question is that she has gotten upset when that separation was not maintained by others. She’s even at times said she’s afraid of what AG will do. She maintains that Amber beat up her dad, not AG, despite being in costume.
Plus then there’s the meta stuff, like the rosy cheeks and the different tags, which also do not only correspond to when she is in costume.
Since she does actually switch, I personally consider them alters.
She didn’t freak out about such comments before. This is isn’t even the first time that Dina has thanked her.
But I also noticed that she didn’t dissociate Amazi-Girl as much, either. Amber talked about getting some “aggression” out by doing AG things.
There are two possibilities in my mind–she dissociates more when she’s angry or scared or she dissociates more. Probably both.
If we see her react negatively to this, I would definitely consider that she had gotten worse.
Edit:
There are two possibilities in my mind–she dissociates more when she’s angry or scared, or she’s been dissociating more over time due to her psychological state getting worse. Probably some of both.
If we see her react negatively to this, I would definitely consider that she had gotten significantly worse.
Odd, I thought I had a top level comment on this page.
Amber’s chair looks ergonomically sound. I think Willis explained it in an earlier strip.