Discussion (202) ¬
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Kendra, regular version @kendrawcandraw.bsky.social ⋅ 2h
Kevin Buist @kevinbuist.com ⋅ 1d
Ferric Fang @fangferric.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Paul Lê @paulle.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Rolling Stone @rollingstone.com ⋅ 2d
Blue sky nice guy @rajandelman.bsky.social ⋅ 12d
Maggie Westrum @maggiewestrum.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
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“oh fine, it’s Teen Titans Go! To the Movies”
(actual “oh fine“)
*googles*
…Yeah, I can see why she’d want the RiffTrax version.
Hey! I loved that movie as a kid!
You shut your mouth! Flight of the Navigator is a goddam treasure!
teen titans go! to the bathroom
Yet somehow still a better love story that Twilight.
That’s especially *poignant* with where your avatar is pointing…
“oh fine, it’s Argo Fuck Yourself”
Lucy looks up ways to bring in the boys, but ends up researching milkshake recipes due to some confusing Google suggestions and being too young to remember that song.
Nevertheless, it works and Movies & Milkshakes becomes a dorm tradition.
I mean, I’d go.
Me too.
In other words, while milkshakes may or may not bring all the boys to the yard, the movie&milkshake combo absolutely will bring all the webcomic commentary royalty to the dorm!
Lucy is my age and…everyone knows that song. I’m not sure if anyone is too young yet.
I may not know the song but I definitely know it is a reference to a song and know the few lines that are most famous “my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and their like it’s better then yours” presumably there is more but that is what I know
“My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard, and damn right, it’s better than yours! (Repeats a lil) I could teach you but I’d have to charge!”
It’s definitely Mean Girls
pacific rim?
Atlantic Rim. We know Lucy likes Rifftrax, so maybe she wants to screen the new season of MST3K.
asylum you beautiful garbage mansion
OH NO. OH NOOOOOOOOOOOO.
I’m bonding with my youngest song by watching MST3K with him. And he’s already a natural at coming off with sassy comments.
Such as when the heroes* in Atlantic Rim was picked up by a car, and he shouted “let’s go to McDonalds now!”
Incidentally, I replied “No, that was the last film, remember?”**
*For a certain value of “heroes”.
**The last film was “Mac and Me”
Pretty nice.
so can we discuss the singularity that would form if there was a Rifftrax of the new MST3K?
Job?
All The Young Dudes
Carry the news
Boogaloo Blues
Carry the news…
Of course Billie’s interest is piqued specifically when Lucy says ‘everyone’ is going. So predictable!
Lucy is adorable.
I want her and Dina to become friends. The “Awwwwww”s would be deafening.
I can’t see she and Dina hitting it off. Dina would not be impressed by Pokestops.
But the Fossil….Pokemon…..
Yeah, Dina would not be impressed.
I want to see what happens if Lucy ever meets Joyce.
Lucy, tell Billie what the movie is.
Billie, don’t be dickish about your wing mates and their taste in men.
Also, why does Billie care about there being more dudes there if she is still committed to Ruth? Or is this her old habits kicking in more than anything else?
Having cute boys raises the status of the party.
I don’t think they even have to be cute.
Sad fact: too many women being ANYWHERE lowers the thing’s perceived prestige, from degrees and actual college campuses to TV shows and movies. This is why colleges have been enacting a quiet form of “‘affirmative action’ for men” in their admissions of recent years. They’re afraid of starting to be perceived as women’s colleges. Misogyny is a helluva thing.
Yes, but if they’re cute, it also raises social status and makes Billie look cooler for going.
Well, not just cute, but high status in that way that cheerleaders are and nerds aren’t. In Billie’s nostalgic eyes anyway.
That too.
Being interested in boys is what a cheerleader does.
Whatever goes on in Billie’s head, it doesn’t include telling people in the new wing she cares about Ruth.
Its about who you’re seen with.
BBCC, stop telling them what to dooo
Somebody has to.
No.
What day is it in-universe? I’m too lazy to look it up myself.
Also, if they DON’T play Pokemon Go, why waste your time?
Friday, roughly October 15th.
The day Amber has a date to tell Walky something important.
She’s pregnant?
She’s taking up Roller Derby with his sister and will have less time for him since Sal has forgiven her for stabbing her through the hand as a young teen, but hey, I understand Amazigirl is looking for a comedy sidekick.
OK, I’m gonna clear my schedule for 2021 so I can make sure I won’t miss a minute of the Halloween storyline….Hmm, I better clear 2022 as well just in case.
Don’t mind me, just setting up camp here til someone more diligent than me does the search and tells us what the movie is
Flight of the Navigator, the Rifftrax version.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/ondeck/
God, that was a year ago and it’s the same goddamn week.
Pretty much. Baring time skips* we get a week of comic time every two years of real time.
*The movie night thing was set up so we were going to absolutely see this day (Chekhov’s movie night), but I expect we’re going into the next time skip after this chapter or maybe the next one (they happen every six to eight days of comic time so far).
I have given up keeping track of the timeline and just enjoy the comic.
Thanks!
It’s Flight of the Navigator.
Being at least a quarter of a century since I last saw that movie.
Been around 30 years for me, and at this point I’m afraid to watch it because I dearly loved the stupid thing as a kid and I’ve had more than enough reminders how poor my childhood taste in media generally was.
Wait why would telling the movie make you not want to go. And why would more dudes be desirable Billie, you’re in a relationship.
Old habits die hard
(Maybe the movie is Die Hard.)
Nah, that’s for the week before Christmas.
BEFORE? It’s for Christmas DAY!!
Assuming IU gives the week of the holiday off.
More dudes makes the event cooler, and Lucy probably thinks Billie will call the movie nerdy.
She just wants people to desire her to reinforce her own self worth.
It’s about status and who she’s seen with.
What’s Billy’s definition of dudes?
Jocks. Sports playing guys that have muscles from playing the sports.
A cheerleader’s definition of dudes.
It’s frankly the same as her definition of chicks, in this instance. Billie remains anti-nerd, and Pokémon is nerdy.
Yeah, anti nerd opinions piss me off. I accept that the increase of asshole nerds is alarming, but I defend nerd culture even if we still have to purge racism, sexism and other forms of bigotry.
That ain’t why Billie’s against nerds.
She’s pro cheerleader and pro jock, and it’s not like that culture’s any better.
Being ages since I cared about watching movies, the only thing I am looking forward to is the next Steven Bomb partly cos I want some of my theories confirmed or jossed and partly I wanna see new fusions
‘ey, Doesn’t-Care-’bout-Movies-No-Mo’ buddy! High Five!
Boo-yah!
Hey, next SU ep is a week from Monday so you don’t have long to wait.
Movie guesses/what I think Lucy should pick:
-Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
-Bring It On
-But I’m a Cheerleader (Lucy did not read the summary)
Its hardcore porn.
Lucy has misjudged Billie’s taste in movies
Lucy kinda feels like the type of person who acts innocent but secretly makes extra cash by drawing anime porn for Tumblr. The ban will hit her hard.
The question is: Does she jump to Pillowfort or pornhub?
Or Mastodon or Sharesome? Or any of the other k’bajillion options people are trying to choose from right now?
Newgrounds, of all places, is seeing a resurgence from this debacle.
I feel like Tumblr is killing itself by banning all porn from their site.
Ye, they probably shot themselves on the head with that move.
I wondered about that. It didn’t sound like they banned porn but any images showing sex acts or genitals that are not part of something obviously sex ed (would boo, it’s just sex qualify?) that’s actually easier to do than banning porn, because you can train an AI to recognize images of sex organs and stuff, but as no one really agrees on “is this is porn or isn’t it” for a lot of stuff, you can’t train an AI for that either.
Practicallities aside, it’s a problem there is so much porn out there that’s freely available to kids. Even if you have entry warnings, ratings, tags: kids and teens always think they are old enough for whatever and get hurt by stuff that they are not old enough for. Even if it just all that (pseudo?) light bondage shit where the top calls the bottom names for desiring sex or reacting to sexual stimulation. This might be some people’s kink but if it’s the first thing you see/read of sex, this plants some really destructive ideas.
Yeah, nah. The algorithm’s useless and flagging all kinds of things that are ostensibly still allowed.
Personally, my feeling is, tumblr was listed as an 18+ app. If people under 18 join it and then lie about how old they are (because under 18 year olds are supposed to be in automatic safe search mode), then that’s on them.
It’s cute that you think slut-shaming is caused by young people stumbling on kink, and not American society’s incredibly rabid puritanicalism, which coincidentally is also responsible for the idea that sex is the worst thing a kid could stumble onto onine.
Believe me, I had already absorbed super toxic ideas about desiring sex making me bad and dirty loooooong before I saw anything remotely sexy online. From TV shows aimed at my demographic, from peers whose parents were way more anti-sex than mine, and from actual “sex ed” which, like most sex ed for my age group, basically told me that I would die if I tried to have sex outside of marriage because of all the disease that sex inevitably spreads no matter how much protection you try to use.
It’s also actually NOT that easy to run into porn by accident, provided that stuff is properly tagged and/or flagged. There was a concerted effort a couple years back to clean up My Little Pony search results by just flagging the porn as adult content for google, and it WORKED. You don’t find graphic images just by searching for twilight sparkle anymore, even though the images all still exist.
Banning sexually explicit material is unnecessary, even before the part where such bans inevitably splash back hard on actual attempts at sexual education and queer folks. (There are furious debates about what qualifies as sex ed in schools, with a LOT of arguments that stuff like telling kids how to use condoms = pornography, or otherwise ~encouraging~ them to have sex, and programs that include any mention of LGBTQIA+ people, like, existing, are also harder to sell as sex ed and frequently called “obscene” and “encouraging deviance”.)
There is nothing good about tumblr’s attempt to ban adult content. Even if it weren’t also a hilarious garbage fire that keeps flagging images of, like, SUNSETS as porn, and suspiciously any post that talks about how bad its algorithm is.
And to be clear, by “cute” in the first paragraph, I mean that the shame link you’re describing — which btw is not actually light bondage, or related to bondage or BDSM at all — is definitely caused by puritanicalism in society… and not the other way around.
Ugh. Shame KINK not link. And of course shame and humiliation kinks can come into play for D&S or BDSM, but they’re not part of it, or limited in their enjoyment to such scenes. Kink is the big umbrella both things fit under; bondage is a sub-type of kink, rather than humiliation kink being a sub-type of bondage.
I personally think its not that bad when people know porn is porn, but when porn comes unsolicited it causes issues.
But looking at this comment. Lots of things in the media can mess people up but with most of the media we don’t say all Xs are automatically crap but we examine what bad message actually is and challenge the media to do better, and seek out positive examples.
And there is always going to be problematic messages because character growth in real time is generally frustrating, people don’t want giving up on a cool character to be the answer, people want to have a lot of friends without thinking about the cost of maintaining all those friendships etc.
By the way one thing I like about Fluttershy as a character is she learned the same lesson over and over but she actually learned it.
Pretty much what Rain said. Yeah, there’s some nasty porn out there on the internet that can screw kids up, but so can the rest of our culture and much of the non-porn internet as well.
Randomly running into a few bits of porn isn’t go to do much damage.
Especially since, again, the app is 18+ in the first place. Kids may not be prohibited from making accounts but that relies on
A) Kids being honest about being kids. if they’re not, that’s on them.
B) Tumblr learning to make their safe mode worth a damn and learning to get rid of porn bots.
and, yes, of course, always
C) Appropriate tagging and labelling. This is on the writer/artist/performer/whoever.
Tumblr’s biggest problems come from how poorly built the site is. Even if people tagged and marked their stuff as explicit, it would still be available for minors to find because Tumblr’s code sucks. That’s not the fault of the adults using a 18+ marketed site as intended and clearly defining their section of it as adult-only, but the site for not doing enough to separate the adult side from the minor side. There’s only so much that adults can do to protect themselves and protect kids from finding their stuff, but kids can and do search out things that they shouldn’t be and if the creator is clearly indicating that hey this is an 18+ zone, I don’t see why it’s also then their fault if children ignore that.
The algorithm is useless and unfairly targets LGBT+ members and creators all across the board and it doesn’t even work. The algorithm flags absolutely anything as being explicit, from nature art to completely innocent, fully dressed drawings of people, meanwhile it ignores actual porn. It’s a horribly ineffectual solution that won’t actually fix any kind of problem and in fact will only create more problems.
@rain: I live in a country that at least teaches condom use in every sex ed class, even though the growing Puritanism imported from the US and the Islamic religious groups make it more of a problem to give accurate information like oh, congas look different from women to women, because showing a board with fotos of 50 different congas is frowned upon by said groups.
My comments about the problematic presence of porn on the Internet are a comment about it’s ubiquitous presence, tublr is only one of many sites where it exists, most others are probably worse because it’s their main function.
Did you ever look at what porn youporn has? There is one in 100 or less films that are not mysogynic, have great power imbalances or use shaming, often implying that saying no is only due to shame and not due to actually meaning no, never mind sex as torture (at least if you look at lesbian anime porn). Other sites are worse and advertise child pornography.
The ban on tublr will make problems for lots of people (the filters are so bad that it seems even Garfield was tagged), while achieving nothing productive. And it will not help to get a discussion about how to allow publishing porn on the internet in a way that keeps it from actively harming people who view it without really knowing what they are getting into. Children are and will be curious about sex. The more bullshit or none-existent the sex Ed is they get, the more they will look for other sources. Fact of life.
And how to make sure no one was harmed in the process of creating it?
How much of the stuff out there that has real people in it was made with people who do it of their own free will, in a safe environment and well paid?
(Crash pad series garantied all that the last time I looked, and there’s the stuff shown in the feminist porn avards but that a needle in a haystack).
Conga came from the word replacement filter on this site.
Probably due to excessive use as insult instead of use to describe a physical feature.
Probably a good thing.
All the social media sites need to die and be replaced more often.
I just heard about that movie (But I’m a Cheerleader) for the first time less than half an hour ago and suddenly I see it here. Crazy
Watch it. It’s great and Lucy and her friends would probably love it.
Wonder what movie they’re gonna watch?
IIRC it was the RiffTrax version of the Star Wars Holiday Special. It was definitely the RiffTrax version of something.
It was Flight of the Navigator.
It’s Cheerleaders with Big Opportunities in a Variety of Professional Fields III: Butt Stuff
Bit surprised Billie’s still wanting to hook up with a guy at a party, or maybe she just wants their presence. Then again, Ruth claims to not care, going by past interactions with those two.
Lucy seems like she’d be a fun party hostess.
I think it’s more like keepimg the cool cheerleader party girl persona , and like someone says Billie finding self worth in still being desirable by boys.
Okay, but will there be Mareep at this get-together?
No, actually, that seems like a great plan!
Billie seems determined to make them forget that Malaya moved out. At least Malaya had Fuckface.
you ain’t catching jocks with pokeymanz
What about the surprisingly ripped anime fans? There favorite DBZ character is Piccolo.
That’s because Piccolo is the best character.
The feeling when you realize the alt text was referring to Lucy’s movie choice and NOT Billie’s qualifications for dudes…
Hey, what’s a good way to ask your cousin (who is supposed to get you a Christmas present) to have his DNA analyzed so that you can find out if you’re your dad’s biological child? Asking for my cat.
“I have a suggestion for a Christmas gift you can get me?”
On a more serious note, I’d tell him that you have an important favour to ask of him and explain the circumstances and why this is important to you.
Imagine that he not only does it as a Christmas gift but wraps the results up for me to open on Christmas day with my family. “Merry Christmas! You’re not your dad’s bio-kid/your father also fathered a secret half-sibling!”
(I’m sorry to have gone off in such a random direction on here, but now that I have, I feel I should explain: I got my DNA analyzed because I wanted to and could have it done for free as part of a study– finally, I get something out of my depression! And in the DNA relatives section, I found someone who matches with my DNA as much as a half-sibling would. And I have no idea who this person is, she’s adopted herself, and I have questions! This all started a while ago now, but every so often the curiosity will flare up.)
That would certainly make for a holiday to remember.
In any case, I would recommend talking to him. If you tell him its for something else, and he finds out about this later, he could very well feel manipulated or betrayed and that’s not a good time either.
Best of luck. This sounds like a complicated situation, and I hope it works out.
Grandparent, niece/nephew, aunt/uncle, double cousin, double half aunt/uncle, (1/2aunt/uncle and 1/2cousin), grandchild.
Okay, let’s go over this now, apparently:
She’s slightly younger than me, so I’m going to assume she’s not my grandparent. Furthermore, I’ve never had kids, much less kids who have kids, so I’m going to assume she’s not my grandchild.
My only known siblings are both half-siblings as it is, so while they’re both old enough to have a kid my age, that kid would only be a half-nibling to me and thus less related than this person is.
Unless one of my grandmothers had a child in her late 60s/early 70s, she’s not my aunt.
Now, some of the more unusual options for 25% shared DNA could be possible, maybe, but they also seem…drastically less likely? I have considered the other possible relationships that 25% shared DNA could denote. (Also, it seems like we’d have to be related just on the bio-dad side, as she has none of the Colombian ancestry from my mom’s side.)
Fair enough. Yea younger than you and only related through dad would pretty much cover any other option. Everything besides aunt and uncle and grandparents assume your related on both sides.
I’d go with honesty, which is your not ready to confront either of your parents about this but you want to know. And your close enough related to them that this would work but not so close that you think this information would effect them personally.
Lie.
Seriously, LIE. Tell him you are doing a project on ancestry and how different siblings and cousins have different genetic mixes but need a control from the other side of the family.
That might be too close to the truth.
I really think lying is the best policy here. ( what if your cousin is illegitimate ? ) if you tell the truth it will get out, before you are ready. If you are legitimate, it will still spread the idea that you aren’t or might not be. Lie. Once you know the truth you will have the option of sharing it or not.
Open up an open ended conversation fishing for what he/ she finds fascinating in genetics , acknowled ge everything he he says and agree with it. Then explain the exact things he wants to know are what you do to, get excited and say lets do it, but keep it between us until we find out . Then make sure the test covers that too.
( I have a similar situation and thought about this a lot. I don’t mind the results either way, but other relatives might be hurt if they didn’t know grandparents )
I do like lying, so there’s that. I feel like I could trust him with it, but we’re not really that close, so maybe that’s misguided.
You’ve got two good and very different answers from AdBl and BBCC. You should think about how reliable your cousin is either as a family member or as a person you know.
Telling the truth seems riskier but it is also easier and they are more likely to be motivated to do it. Lying lets you cover yourself but it will probably come out eventually. But it is a really bespoke situation.
Did you already do the blood type thing for inheritance? You probably did before you got this far.
My blood type is O+; as far as checking inheritance goes, that means “fuck you,” right? My parents gave me what bloodtypes they think they are, but we’re admittedly not that sure.
Unrelated, COYOTE. I miss.
If your parents are single types and at least one is positive that is a possibility. My father and mother are both A+ and a sib is O+.
If one of the parents is AB your blood type rules them out and if both are -ve then at least one is not a bioparent, barring a very weird de novo mutation.
Yeah, I guess it does eliminate some possibilities– it just wasn’t an overly helpful route in this case.
Is your cousin the child of your father’s sister? Because that’s the only way to be sure that you and he share any DNA. Your father’s brother’s child might not be your father’s brother’s child, if you get my drift.
I think it might be a better solution to make of with the actual dad’s hair brush and get his DNA tested without his knowledge first.
Then, if you are sure he’s not, you can decide how to proceed and whom to ask for help proving it. There are too many potential pitfalls in testing the DNA of someone else because you cannot be sure of relations being what they are supposed to be.
My dad’s a balding guy with hair short enough that it doesn’t require a brush. I could always keep an eye out for hair that falls out, but then, what if I get the cat’s fur by accident and the ployjuice potion turns me into a furry?
…wait…
He is the child of my dad’s sister; I considered that when thinking of what I could do to get some answers.
“yeah, I know you think the movie suck, but come anyway !” pffft
Probably because we haven’t seen all that much of Lucy but shes looking like she’s easily the best girlfriend option of the cast
My current avatar and myself has something to say about this.
She is a very nice, good person but not everyone is into sharing so that could cause problems whereas Lucy seems a bit more low maintenance (in a good non-drama way), mind you that could all change with more comic time
Maybe Shortpacked just made a strong first impression but I’ve always thought Lucy was incredibly boring.
Boring gets a bad rap but would you want to deal with Joyces fundamentalism and issues with sex, Ambers…well everything, Sal loner persona, Dorothys perfectionism, Billie or Ruths alcoholism (amongst others) etc etc
But dating Mary would be fine, right? Right??!?!?!
This is fine…
This is really straining your ability to be optimistic about almost any situation, isn’t it?
Dating Mary would be AWESOME!
…if you are Peter.
But do you want to be Peter?
…honestly I think he is pretty happy with his life.
Justice is a lie.
Until he realizes Mary missed her period, anyway
I’d like to date someone for what they are, rather than what they are not, though, and I can see how that’s where “boring” might factor in as a less enticing thing. I personally don’t mind “dealing with” a person being a person if there are things about them I like enough, you know?
I do like Lucy okay thus far, but I’d personally rather date Dina, Becky, maybe an open thing with Roz, Carla, or Leslie. (In real life, Leslie’s too old for me, but then, the rest of them are too young for me…and Leslie’s the one I’ll probably catch up to before this thing is over.)
More like would I want to read about Lucy from the other side of a screen where I don’t have to directly deal with the wacky antics and the consequences of them.
Oh wait, I forgot the premise was dating. Yeah… I’ll still pass on the boring and unengaging, there would be even less point to dating than normal.
Doesn’t she, Walky?
IMO, Lucy is sweet and, next to Joyce, the most girlish of the ladies. By that, I mean, she’s still got a lot of child-like aspects to her personality. Whether or not that would make her good girlfriend material is, of course, very much in the eye of the beholder. I do think that, like Joyce, she would make a good, if pushy, friend.
Hm. I don’t think I’ve ever equated girlish with childlike. Just a different set of preferences.
I think girlish is very much meant as “childlike”– specifically, of a girl child, just like how boyish can be used to mean “childlike, specifically as a boy child.” (The definition that pops up on Google, fwiw, is “of, like, or characteristic of a male child or young man.”) If it’s being taken as “feminine,” then no, it shouldn’t be equated with “childlike,” but I personally feel more comfortable with it being taken as “childlike” than “feminine.”
Does this mean Beef might be coming back? I miss Beef.
Such a conversationalist, that Beef.
No, Billie, I just think that this means Lucy has a more realistic expectations of what could interest college-age guys to come to a chick flick night!
MST3K/RiffTrax is chick flick night?
I think that would be a late teen guy’s reaction to being in darkened room filled with that many girls who were there to watch a movie or box set, yes.
My teenage self would gladly go.
Of course, my teenage self would also hope that somehow, my mere presence would be enough that one of the girls present would just magically and telepathically understand what an awesome person I was, with no need on my part to make any effort to actually show it.
Teenage me was a moron.
Billie is still stuck in high school.
No, but she wants to be. Mostly.
If it gets out that Billie isn’t going, the others are probably going to follow suit.
Poor Lucy.
Billie needs to learn that outside of high school and this dorm full of pod people nobody cares about her being a cheerleader or really any of the things she considers status symbols.
She did. Then she found a dorm full of pod people and decided she didn’t need to have learned that any more.
Life Lesson Refused: Walky aproves.
Well, OK, he didn’t approve. But he should.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/04-of-mike-and-men/renaissance/
Yeah — this kind of feels like reverse character development…
I’m just waiting for her shit talking about Ruth to get back to her because that seems like the most obvious way this is going to blow up in her face.
On a side note, have you* ever tried singing “nobody cares” to the tune of Beethoven’s 5th? Whenever you find yourself in a stupid melodramatic situation, you should try it!
Nobody cares!
Nobody cares!
Nobodycaresnobodycaresnobodycares!
Nobodycaresnobodycaresnobodycares!
Nobody caaares!
Nobody caaares!
Nobody cares
At
Aaaaaaall!
*Both Emily and the rest of y’all.
Psnel five: Lucy says “All the girls and Zaph”.
Ten bonus points to Hufflepuff for her doing that right.
(Wait, Lucy would be a Hufflepuff. Am I remembering that correctly?)
YUP. Lucy is the Puffiest of Huffles.
I had a similar reaction to Billie’s wanting “more dudes than that” (the people having voted that her house would be Slytherin)…and then I felt bad that I was pleased about someone for something so basic. Like, I don’t really want to give out points for not sucking! I just want people not to suck!
Get so used to being kicked that you thank people for not kicking you and all that.
This might be one of the few cases where I could say that the end justifies the means.
Like yeah, I get it, nobody should get points simply for not sucking. Especially nobody in positions of power and privilege not sucking towards those without. Not kicking people should be the absolute baseline.
The thing is, though… positive reinforcement is quite a drug. And as such, it’s a really, really good way to control behaviour. And not kicking people is, unfortunately, -not- the absolute baseline of behaviour yet.
So giving points to the people that are given big heavy boots, yet still don’t kick other people could be a way* to get to the end: Where not kicking people finally does become the baseline.
*By the way, I’m not claiming it’s -the- way, and certainly not the only possible way.
I can see that when it’s a conscious thing…for instance, I actively make an effort to respond better to my mom asking me to do things when she names/genders me correctly.
But when it’s more just reflexive, like it was for me in this case…it’s just kind of sad. If you’re not off the group that’s being kicked, I can get it not feeling as sad to react with praise. But it’s the kind of thing that I’ll be genuinely grateful for…and then sad that my standards are so low. (Also, there’s the risk with positive reinforcement of people coming to expect praise, which is another level of exhausting.)
Yeah, it’s all pretty messed up, isn’t it
*offers appropriate internet gestures of sympathy*
So remember when you’re feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there’s intelligent life, somewhere out in space
‘Cause there’s bugger all, down here on Earth
This is why I prefer negative reinforcement whenever possible when it comes to “getting people to treat other’s with basic human decency” because the last thing the majority needs is an expectation that they deserve a cookie for not treating minorities like shit.
When you say “negative reinforcement” do you mean “punishment” (to the people fucking up)? Which I guess also serves as negative reinforcement for people witnessing to do better.
From context, I assume you mean it in the punishment sense; I’m just curious if you have another approach you’re describing.
Mostly I mean “disrespect is met with the criticism it merits” instead of “meeting the bare minimum of human decency is met with undeserved praise.”
That makes sense. Negative reinforcement can just mean something different from how it’s often used; learning about the terms of operant conditioning has served me very little except to confuse myself when these terms come up in general conversation.
As for whether praise or punishment is more effective… well, it’s probably a mix of them that’s the most effective. Both can be exhausting. If you’re the minority in question, I guess do whichever you feel at the moment, if you want to engage. And also, especially for folks on the outside who want to be going the praise route…maybe focus it on people going more above the bare minimum.
Negative reinforcement certainly feels more just and may well be what people deserve.
OTOH, it might well be that in most cases positive reinforcement works better.
I feel like the normalization of the idea that being a bare bones decent human being to minorities warrants praise is where we got the bullshit attitude that the majority is justified in stripping us of our rights if we’re not nice enough to them.
The problem with praising people for what they don’t do wrong is nobody is perfect and almost everyone is better than somebody else.
Dick wants a cookie for not being abusive or a rapist.
Joe wants a cookie for being honest about what he wants from women.
Ryan wants a cookie for not killing women unless they fight back.
Sal’s preschool wants a cookie for accepting Sal in the first place.
I have seen so much praise and reverence offered to guys for simply not getting violent or upset upon being rejected by a woman. I don’t feel that it’s at all appropriate in any way to give people kudos for not assaulting and killing us. That’s such a low bar, it’s halfway buried into the fucking ground. And that’s just one such example.
Like Emily was saying, the majority will strip rights away from minorities if they’re not “”nice”” enough. See how many cishet people turn away from LGBT+ whenever they get the slightest bit of criticism. (Hint: If being told that something that you are doing is harmful or ignorant is enough to make you stop being an ally, you never were an ally in the first place.) And the whole problem with the idea behind positive reinforcement being the main interaction is that it puts the responsibility on the minorities to teach the majority how to stop hurting them without any critical thought on behalf of the majority to, y’know, not do that. This also forces minorities into a position where they always have to play nice and sweet in the face of hatred and cruelty, and that’s just unfair too. It’s not as cut and dry as ‘negative reinforcement = bad and mean, positive reinforcement = good and effective’.
I think that anybody who believes others should be getting cookies for not treating minorities they (the person believing in positive reinforcement) are not part of, that person should be the one to give it.
Like, if you’re (general you) a guy who thinks non-women should be given positive reinforcement for not being misogynistic, my response is ‘Okay, great. YOU give it to them’.
It’s one thing if a person has realized they have a problem with treating people badly and you’re telling them they are, in fact, improving, but I feel like that’s different than just general ‘thank you for not being shitty’.
I’ve noticed this in the comments a few times too – I remember way back when it was still only being hinted Carla was trans, people were praising Sal for not being a transphobic fuckwad even though she went to a religious school in a very conservative school.
Yeah. I’m not going to go out of my way to praise someone for not being shitty, least of all if that’s only because they don’t do anything. But if someone is taking the time and effort to actively change and become better? Sure, I’ll acknowledge their efforts.
And yeah, people absolutely use this to assume better of characters when there’s no evidence either way. Neutral should not be something considered worthy of praise, least to the degree that people should be especially grateful for it.
The Sound of Music, right?
Frozen!
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/03-the-butterflies-fly-away/backlog/
*looks sternly at Bagge*
Bagge, did you just want an excuse to link to a strip that has Becky in it?
maaayyyybe ?
Yeah, um, kinda…
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/03-the-thing-i-was-before/threat/
Wait – people still play Pokemon Go?
yes, the number is still on the millions. And the popular places on the comunity days are still packed full with people.
Billie, you are in a relationship. Sorta? I don’t know if Ruth will like you hanging out with dudes. Also, at least Lucy is trying to connect with you even if you find her annoying.
Billie’s bi, so there’s really not much difference in that regard from hanging out with girls.
It’s more the part where she’s refusing a social gathering because there’s not enough dudes where it could come off poorly.
Billie is not bi. She just likes girls sometimes. It’s no big deal, doesn’t make her different, everybody does.
The denial is strong with this one.
Yeah, also that.
Some people just started a month ago when Pokemon Let’s Go Eevee/Pikachu came out, because you can transfer stuff caught in Go to Let’s Go.
hey are Ruth and Billie still an item?
For now. But since this storyline apparently wraps up after Valentine’s Day and Willis said on twitter he was writing a fight for them not long ago, we’ll see.