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Billie, you’re not inherently toxic, but you’re stuck in a toxic mindset and a toxic behaviour spiral. You’re gonna need help if you want to break it. Even if you don’t go to therapy, you’ll need the support of others and actually be willing to do the work. You can’t half ass this or skim over it.
Agreed. She’s couching it like “I am Dahok, a fundamental, elemental, universal force of destruction. I am Eris of Discordia! I could never change, for I am the embodiment of evil made flesh.”
You’re a cheerleader who found out she was a medium sized fish in a small pond and used alcohol as a coping mechanism as a crutch. It would suck a little to change, but it’s not a universal apocalypse.
Her problems run deeper than that. She was an alcoholic before she got here.
Probably originally to cope with the emotional neglect of her absent parents.
*On the phone* Ey listen Josie what’samatter with this place, nothin’s looking right, where’s all the hockey and femurs? The gal’s gonna be here any—uh-huh. Uh-huh?
It wouldn’t surprise me if “Hockey and Femurs” isn’t already a band name. But “Pocky and Lemurs?” Almost certainly there for the taking.
Also, I keep wanting to turn “Hockey and Femurs” into a parody of the Doubleclicks’ “Lasers and Feelings.” “You’ve got hockey, and I’ve got femurs…” but I’m not sure where it goes from there.
Well, I **completely** misread the situation and apologize for being so enthusiastic about it. I thought Billie was trying to show she wasn’t going to let being dumped get her down. So, I owe everyone a cookie if we meet in real life. I feel bad about it too because I was hoping it would be a sign that Billie wasn’t completely on a downward spiral of self-destruction.
I even had, “Aint nothing gonna break my stride” prepared as her theme song.
maybe there’s a lesson here somewhere
like if literally everyone is telling you that you might be wrong, maybe you should at least consider the possibility that you made a mistake somewhere
nobody outright agreed with you mate. At most they conceded a point, but as far as I saw it, everyone was yelling at you about not understanding anything.
“Never let another girl like you work me over
Never let another girl like you drag me under
If I meet another girl like you, I will tell her
Never want another girl like you, have to say, oh”
Life is Strange is how I imagine Willis would write a video game. Which is the highest compliment I can give. They should hire him for the 3rd installment (or 4th, technically).
It’s interesting. I feel like the most self-loathing characters, Billie and Amber coming to mind, are among the easiest to get extremely frustrated with (e.g. yesterday’s comment section)… Are we unconsciously learning how to treat them how they treat themselves?
(Or maybe their behavior is just really frustrating to both themselves and those around them and that’s all that is?)
I can’t speak for everyone of course, but I think generally we get frustrated with them because watching people we care about and/or root for mess up, in the same ways, over and over again, is painful. And because being in pain is no excuse for taking it out on others. (Or on themselves, frankly. Everyone involved deserves better.)
Yeah, people don’t get mad at them because they hate them. If you hate a character, it’s rarely worth getting riled up about them.
That, and plenty of us see a lot of ourselves or people we care about in Billie, Amber, etc. Like, if Mary was making bad life decisions, we wouldn’t get frustrated, because fuck her.
While I am capable of understanding that Billie hates herself and deserves therapy and to feel like she has value, I also find her behaviour extremely unlikeable regardless and find her genuinely irritating which isn’t because of how Billie views herself. It just isn’t at all likeable to be a bongo to your ‘friends’ to me and while she regards herself as ‘toxic’ by existing. She also. Continues. To act like a bongo to her ‘friends’. Which vexes me to this day.
Speaking as someone who at this point kind of has to admit that self-loathing is one of his core character traits: People HATE that shit in the long run. Feeling sorry for someone is draining for the best of people. And at a certain point you’re not only beating yourself up, you are also dismissing other people’s impression of you as false if they don’t match up to your self-flagellation.
People often say that confidence is great for getting popular. Inversely, self-loathing is great for ending up alone.
There’s truth in that, but here it often seems that a lot of the criticism is aimed at the surface behavior and ignores the self-loathing, often treating the facade as the real motivation and attacking them for that.
I think it was a Questionable Content where someone asked, quite sarcastically but also honestly, “Have you considered NOT making terrible decisions?”
All of the really terrible people I know are either totally brainwashed or they buy their own bullshit so completely that there is no reaching them. B-Dubs is neither of those things. In some ways, that makes her worse. Why does she continue in her toxicity? She knows she’s awful, that there are paths to being better.
Maybe I’m burnt out on morally grey characters that actively shirk efforts to grow. They’re just frustrating to me.
There’s different gradients to that, though, you know? Some problems are bigger or more serious or more impactful than others. Also, in my own opinion, your point just makes me want to see even fewer of those characters in my fiction. Escapism as a coping mechanism 2k19.
I remember reading something somewhere that the story will end before Christmas Break. Makes sense, we’re going on 9 years and haven’t even hit Halloween yet.
Maybe she feels like she’s screwed everything up so bad, she might as well embrace the trashpile she’s made of her life because it’s not like there’s any point in trying to get better
Maybe she does. But that’s depression talking and so, if anything, yet another reason she should seek help. There’s always a way out, or at the very least a way toward a way out. There’s always something to be done. The fact that the way out is often hard or uncomfortable or strange doesn’t negate it.
^ This. Billie doesn’t see herself as capable or deserving of improvement. Now that Ruth is proving to be both things, Billie doesn’t see them as compatible anymore.
Not just not compatible, but since she’s poisonous, she’s actually dangerous to Ruth. Which Ruth reinforced with her explosion about Billie trying to get her to drink. Which she was correct to do, because it was dangerous for her.
But that’s the problem with depression: It lies to you.
It’s not just that the way out is hard or uncomfortable or strange and you’re too lazy or comfortable to try, it’s that it gets twisted inside to be impossible for you, you’re not worth the effort.
Haha I feel like every fandom I’m tangentally a part of is making the same complaint right now- But people struggling to grow and sometimes deciding not to is a hallmark of Dumbing of Age. All of the charachters- Billie, sure, but also Walky, Sal, Amber, and _especially_ Joyce are constantly confronted with knowing, vaguely, what being a better person looks like, but not knowing if they can get to that place or sometimes how to do it. It also doesn’t help that Ruth, for a while, has been the totality of Billie’s support network. Walky’s helped, sure, but because Billie had to keep dating Ruth a secret and because she’s frankly not too introspective, she hasn’t built a lot of options to help her. Joyce has the advantage of being surrounded by friends to help her through tribulations and fundamentalism; Walky had Amber and Jason after Dorothy, Sal’s reconnecting with home friends, her brother, and her nemesis; Amber’s had Dina and Ethan and Hatbae (for a while) and Walky. But Billie’s been relatively alone, because she’s cagey and because she doesn’t reach out but also because other people (aside from walky, and ruth- neither of whom exactly have a lot of space for her ATM, or are connected to the issue) haven’t been trying all that hard; and Billie doesn’t make it easy.
So, Um, it makes sense I guess? She’s dropping the ball, and it’s def her fault, but the others have advantages when it comes to personal growth that she needs to make an effort to leverage.
This is kinda why I have never dated. I don’t wanna put someone in my life until I have a better grasp on my depression. At the rate i’m going maybe….. by the end of the year i’ll try dating.
I tried that. I decided to take some time for me rather than looking for a relationship. Figured if I can turn things around and be happy with being single, I could place less stress on a relationship to help me to be happy and I could be more successful in the dating world. Now, though, I’m so comfortable being single, I find myself reluctant to start dating because I’ll have to give up the single things that I’ve come to enjoy.
That’s exactly what I said to myself. I like your hopeful statement, you’ve got this!
I’m wasn’t 100% when I started dating my partner of nearly two years (that’s a huge deal for me haha) but he’s definitely been a huge part in the process…
This isn’t a bad plan, but it isn’t for everyone. This is not aimed at you, just my own input. My problem wasn’t constant depression like it felt like at first, rather bipolar mood swings. Having someone close enough to me that they could look at me and go “You’re unusually wired today, are you okay?” Was key to me figuring out what was going on. Mental issues are not always easy to spot from the inside as it were, so there is something to be said for an outside perspective. Just two cents from my life.
Hey, from one depressed person to another, I’m proud of whatever progress you’ve already made and your determination to keep pushing forward. Keep on fighting, friend.
Billie thinks she is trash and the only way for her to be with Ruth was when Ruth also was trash. If Ruth is getting better, that means Billie will be left behind.
It was exactly that that I hoped would be the motivation for Billie to actually WANT to get better, because if she won’t do it for Ruth I can’t see why else she would.
Ruth has hit rock bottom. She reached the point where things needed to change, no matter the costs, because staying like this was no longer an option.
Billie hasn’t. She’s miserable, yes, but she’s okay with being miserable. Facing her problems and giving up alcohol still is more scary than being the way she is.
OK, I’m on one of those things again where I hone in on a totally inconsequential detail:
would Ruth really want a farm covered in femurs? Does Ruth even like femurs? Sure, she likes beating people with them. But I thought it was the beating part that was really important and the femurs were more of a weapon of choice.
Like there’s a difference between having a signature battleaxe and wanting to mount it over the fireplace.
Maybe the hockey team has a special femur fridge for her.
By the time the next semester begins, it’ll be roughly 2075, 108 years after the Leafs won their last championship. 108 years is how long the Chicago Cubs went without a championship. Coincidence? I think not. Unlike most of the rest of us, Ruth will live to see another Leafs championship.
Billie’s in a weird spot. She’s both stunted on some things, and also making a lot of observations about herself by 18, even if I think her takeaways are the wrong ones.
I kind wonder if we’ll see more of Alice, to find out more about that, and to see if that’ll spur Billie forward some more.
Dina’s an outlier. It seems like she has trouble processing any nonverbal social cues, or at least for her it’s a deliberate process instead of something that comes naturally. She might not catch on to something she’s not expecting.
Becky, Becky, Becky. You’ve *already* snagged yourself a girlfriend! You don’t need other very pretty girls gettin’ your cues! (Nor should be giving them cues)
Unless… does she mean that Dina doesn’t get her cues?
Wanna give Becky all the points for panel 2. I’m not great with subtlety (in general, not just relationship-type stuff), and do spend a lot of time wishing people could be more straightforward.
That’s certainly part of it. But I think it’s more that Billie can’t see a reality where she ISN’T going down in flames, and now that Ruth CAN do that, she doesn’t think things will work anymore. Letting Ruth go is easier than trying to save herself.
Billie, if you truly believe that then you’ll always find some way to make it true. Maybe it’s time instead to try to find some way to make a ‘better place’ work with you?
Man I’m projecting a lot right now when I say this but I feel like Ruth misses, not RL Billie exactly, but the Billie she thought she could have a healthy relationship with. I think Billie/Ruth has sunk and they can both be sad about it but also Ruth /is/ going to make it through this fine single, especially with Billie no longer under her jurisdiction.
For Billie, I have no idea. Something might change even within this conversation with Becky, who knows.
Living a more privileged life doesn’t always mean you should know better what to do. In fact, in many cases your sheltered experience means you’re utterly stunted in situations where people like Ruth find a path upward (perhaps even with your help) and power through.
Not clear how sheltered and privileged Billie is. Sure, her parents had money, but they also neglected her and used that money as a substitute for emotional support or even for being present. That’s much of the source of Billie’s problems. She’s also shown a lot of practical experience in dealing with some pretty harsh situations – mostly from her head cheerleader role, protecting her squad from abusive boyfriends and rape and arranging abortions.
She’s certainly sheltered in some ways, but I don’t think that’s getting in her way now as much as the self-loathing and alcoholism. And Ruth needed to be dragged to the hospital on suicide watch to start to turn around. Without that …
Noble would be buckling down and suffering through what it takes to get on the wagon and break the alcoholism. This is like, pseudonoble. (which may have been your point all along)
This isn’t noble, though. It’s self-destructive. Sure, she recognizes one of her negative cycles, but rather than doing anything to fix them (e.g. committing to stopping drinking or going to therapy, both of which are options that have been presented to her which she denied) she’s just taking it as-is like the act of being a shitty person is inevitable. Recognizing the problem is the first step, but actually doing things to fix it is the second, and she hasn’t come close to that yet.
Maybe Ruth IS better off without her (they were codependent as hell and LITERALLY formed a suicide pact) but it’s not Billie’s job to decide what’s best for Ruth, especially without her input.
Billie thinks she’s fundamentally toxic and worthless. So, she’s trying to ‘protect Ruth’ from herself. In the process, she’s hurting both of them. Like you said, someone desperately needs therapy or at least someone whom she trusts to tell her that she needs to change herself if she wants to stop being unhappy all the time.
Ruth has Howard, who she must survive for. Billie just has her girlfriend, who might indeed be better off without her (though that doesn’t mean Billie should die, just end the relationship).
Better by far to try that therapy and stopping drinking thing. Both for her and for Ruth. Not easy and she’s not there yet, but the idea that Ruth is better off without her is too tied up in Billie’s self-loathing for me to like that as the actual resolution.
(Seriously though, she’s on the threshold, where people go “there’s something wrong with me” but don’t realize “and it’s been wrong with many, many people before me, and there are support groups and therapists and self-help books galore.” She needs to go forward off that threshold, not backward into a bottle or pinned in place by “I am the worst in the history of ever, I am singular in my dysfunction.”)
Ah, wise bartender pizza (and subs) server Becky. She uses that fourth panel technique sometimes, simply a statement of fact and letting the person she talks to verbalize the next part herself.
She and Joe have a lot in common, most of all her refusal to confront her issues and insistence that things are fine the way they are when they clearly aren’t.
Billie for gods sake if you want to end it, then end it. Give some closure and official ending rather than bullshit that extends it. If you are intent on ending it do both of you a favor and pull that band-aid off now.
I’m assuming you are referring to a formal break-up.
Your wording sounds like you are counselling suicide, which is not OK even for a fictional character. Please state clearly that this is not what you mean.
Considering this is a strip that’s talking about their relationship and suicide would not be a favor to anyone I thought it was very clear I was talking about ending her and Ruth’s relationship. ‘Closure’ is not really a thing associated with suicide.
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No plan survives first contact with the Billie
Hurricane Billie?
Her-icane Billie??
(Yeah, I know the character)
Unless it’s a party plan, in that case she’ll add booze.
Billie, you’re not inherently toxic, but you’re stuck in a toxic mindset and a toxic behaviour spiral. You’re gonna need help if you want to break it. Even if you don’t go to therapy, you’ll need the support of others and actually be willing to do the work. You can’t half ass this or skim over it.
Agreed. She’s couching it like “I am Dahok, a fundamental, elemental, universal force of destruction. I am Eris of Discordia! I could never change, for I am the embodiment of evil made flesh.”
You’re a cheerleader who found out she was a medium sized fish in a small pond and used alcohol as a coping mechanism as a crutch. It would suck a little to change, but it’s not a universal apocalypse.
Her problems run deeper than that. She was an alcoholic before she got here.
Probably originally to cope with the emotional neglect of her absent parents.
Hockey Femurs.
Dumbing of Age Book 10: Hockey and Femurs
“They have a maple syrup fountain, and Timbits grow on trees!”
“Are the Maple Leafs any good in this magical land?”
“Haha, no.”
But as Scott Simon yells every Saturday: “Abhor the dinosaur!”
(Please no one tell Dina that he has also yelled “Revile the reptile!”)
*On the phone* Ey listen Josie what’samatter with this place, nothin’s looking right, where’s all the hockey and femurs? The gal’s gonna be here any—uh-huh. Uh-huh?
*listening*
NOT “POCKY AND LEMURS”, YOU IDJIT *hangs up*
It wouldn’t surprise me if “Hockey and Femurs” isn’t already a band name. But “Pocky and Lemurs?” Almost certainly there for the taking.
Also, I keep wanting to turn “Hockey and Femurs” into a parody of the Doubleclicks’ “Lasers and Feelings.” “You’ve got hockey, and I’ve got femurs…” but I’m not sure where it goes from there.
Pocky and Lemurs are both awesome. I would be interested in that band.
Hockey WITH Femurs.
Well, I **completely** misread the situation and apologize for being so enthusiastic about it. I thought Billie was trying to show she wasn’t going to let being dumped get her down. So, I owe everyone a cookie if we meet in real life. I feel bad about it too because I was hoping it would be a sign that Billie wasn’t completely on a downward spiral of self-destruction.
I even had, “Aint nothing gonna break my stride” prepared as her theme song.
My bad.
That song is about trying to make up again AFTER a breakup. She breaks up with him; he tells her, you’re worth it to me and I’ll win you back somehow.
So, not a great batting average of understanding here.
Considering Billie hasn’t been officially dumped nor has she officially dumped Ruth, then yeah, I’d say it’s not great.
maybe there’s a lesson here somewhere
like if literally everyone is telling you that you might be wrong, maybe you should at least consider the possibility that you made a mistake somewhere
Quite a few people agreed with me. I also think Billie is acting like it’s over but I’d rather not start any arguments on that.
nobody outright agreed with you mate. At most they conceded a point, but as far as I saw it, everyone was yelling at you about not understanding anything.
Yeah, yeah, I know I’m wrong. No arguments now.
it totally isn’t though, right?
“Never let another girl like you work me over
Never let another girl like you drag me under
If I meet another girl like you, I will tell her
Never want another girl like you, have to say, oh”
that does not sound like he wants her back
Don’t worry too much, everyone gets a little heated, sometimes. And I got a new Grav out of the whole thing, which is always fun.
But which version of Break My Stride? Matthew Wilder or Unique?
See, take Becky’s panel 2 speech, replace ‘girls’ with gender of your choice, and that describes literally everybody I know.
Be direct!
As someone who has trouble catching other people’s hints, I definitely would like it if people would be more direct more often.
Yeah just ask Billie about that time she visited Arcadia Bay in 2013.
Life is Strange is how I imagine Willis would write a video game. Which is the highest compliment I can give. They should hire him for the 3rd installment (or 4th, technically).
Oh damnit.
This bongo needs counseling
Dumbing of Age Book 10: These Bongos Need Counseling
It’s interesting. I feel like the most self-loathing characters, Billie and Amber coming to mind, are among the easiest to get extremely frustrated with (e.g. yesterday’s comment section)… Are we unconsciously learning how to treat them how they treat themselves?
(Or maybe their behavior is just really frustrating to both themselves and those around them and that’s all that is?)
I can’t speak for everyone of course, but I think generally we get frustrated with them because watching people we care about and/or root for mess up, in the same ways, over and over again, is painful. And because being in pain is no excuse for taking it out on others. (Or on themselves, frankly. Everyone involved deserves better.)
Yeah, people don’t get mad at them because they hate them. If you hate a character, it’s rarely worth getting riled up about them.
That, and plenty of us see a lot of ourselves or people we care about in Billie, Amber, etc. Like, if Mary was making bad life decisions, we wouldn’t get frustrated, because fuck her.
Put the mirror down, I can’t take my reflection today, cause you nailed it.
Yeah, I’m frustrated but I still want to give them hella hugs.
While I am capable of understanding that Billie hates herself and deserves therapy and to feel like she has value, I also find her behaviour extremely unlikeable regardless and find her genuinely irritating which isn’t because of how Billie views herself. It just isn’t at all likeable to be a bongo to your ‘friends’ to me and while she regards herself as ‘toxic’ by existing. She also. Continues. To act like a bongo to her ‘friends’. Which vexes me to this day.
Speaking as someone who at this point kind of has to admit that self-loathing is one of his core character traits: People HATE that shit in the long run. Feeling sorry for someone is draining for the best of people. And at a certain point you’re not only beating yourself up, you are also dismissing other people’s impression of you as false if they don’t match up to your self-flagellation.
People often say that confidence is great for getting popular. Inversely, self-loathing is great for ending up alone.
There’s truth in that, but here it often seems that a lot of the criticism is aimed at the surface behavior and ignores the self-loathing, often treating the facade as the real motivation and attacking them for that.
And thus were the interviewing tables turned
Becky is the most powerful of us all (Dina only exceeds her when sufficiently motivated by paleontology).
This, yes, this.
What if Becky tries to take over the strip from Joyce? Could Willis stop her?
Becky wouldn’t do that. It’s against the best friend code. (Besides, all Joyce has to do is borrow another outfit from Sal to flummox her.)
I think it was a Questionable Content where someone asked, quite sarcastically but also honestly, “Have you considered NOT making terrible decisions?”
All of the really terrible people I know are either totally brainwashed or they buy their own bullshit so completely that there is no reaching them. B-Dubs is neither of those things. In some ways, that makes her worse. Why does she continue in her toxicity? She knows she’s awful, that there are paths to being better.
Maybe I’m burnt out on morally grey characters that actively shirk efforts to grow. They’re just frustrating to me.
“Morally grey characters that actively shirk effects to grow” describes most real people, for most of their lives
There’s different gradients to that, though, you know? Some problems are bigger or more serious or more impactful than others. Also, in my own opinion, your point just makes me want to see even fewer of those characters in my fiction. Escapism as a coping mechanism 2k19.
I mean, there’s also still plenty of time for Billie to grow. Story’s not over yet.
Yeah, we’re not even out of first semester yet, are we?
We’re like a month and a half in.
I remember reading something somewhere that the story will end before Christmas Break. Makes sense, we’re going on 9 years and haven’t even hit Halloween yet.
Maybe she feels like she’s screwed everything up so bad, she might as well embrace the trashpile she’s made of her life because it’s not like there’s any point in trying to get better
Maybe she does. But that’s depression talking and so, if anything, yet another reason she should seek help. There’s always a way out, or at the very least a way toward a way out. There’s always something to be done. The fact that the way out is often hard or uncomfortable or strange doesn’t negate it.
nah, easier to just decide she’s hopeless.
^ This. Billie doesn’t see herself as capable or deserving of improvement. Now that Ruth is proving to be both things, Billie doesn’t see them as compatible anymore.
Not just not compatible, but since she’s poisonous, she’s actually dangerous to Ruth. Which Ruth reinforced with her explosion about Billie trying to get her to drink. Which she was correct to do, because it was dangerous for her.
But Billie can’t conceive of not being that way.
well of course it’s easier
But that’s the problem with depression: It lies to you.
It’s not just that the way out is hard or uncomfortable or strange and you’re too lazy or comfortable to try, it’s that it gets twisted inside to be impossible for you, you’re not worth the effort.
I think you’re likely correct.
Perhaps she’ll join Amber on Garbage Roof.
It’s just that it requires much more effort than flaunting a 20 dollar bill.
Haha I feel like every fandom I’m tangentally a part of is making the same complaint right now- But people struggling to grow and sometimes deciding not to is a hallmark of Dumbing of Age. All of the charachters- Billie, sure, but also Walky, Sal, Amber, and _especially_ Joyce are constantly confronted with knowing, vaguely, what being a better person looks like, but not knowing if they can get to that place or sometimes how to do it. It also doesn’t help that Ruth, for a while, has been the totality of Billie’s support network. Walky’s helped, sure, but because Billie had to keep dating Ruth a secret and because she’s frankly not too introspective, she hasn’t built a lot of options to help her. Joyce has the advantage of being surrounded by friends to help her through tribulations and fundamentalism; Walky had Amber and Jason after Dorothy, Sal’s reconnecting with home friends, her brother, and her nemesis; Amber’s had Dina and Ethan and Hatbae (for a while) and Walky. But Billie’s been relatively alone, because she’s cagey and because she doesn’t reach out but also because other people (aside from walky, and ruth- neither of whom exactly have a lot of space for her ATM, or are connected to the issue) haven’t been trying all that hard; and Billie doesn’t make it easy.
So, Um, it makes sense I guess? She’s dropping the ball, and it’s def her fault, but the others have advantages when it comes to personal growth that she needs to make an effort to leverage.
Maybe because “alpha bongo problem solver” is just comfortable, known territory for her to fall back on, even if it’s just hollow posturing.
This is kinda why I have never dated. I don’t wanna put someone in my life until I have a better grasp on my depression. At the rate i’m going maybe….. by the end of the year i’ll try dating.
I tried that. I decided to take some time for me rather than looking for a relationship. Figured if I can turn things around and be happy with being single, I could place less stress on a relationship to help me to be happy and I could be more successful in the dating world. Now, though, I’m so comfortable being single, I find myself reluctant to start dating because I’ll have to give up the single things that I’ve come to enjoy.
That’s exactly what I said to myself. I like your hopeful statement, you’ve got this!
I’m wasn’t 100% when I started dating my partner of nearly two years (that’s a huge deal for me haha) but he’s definitely been a huge part in the process…
This isn’t a bad plan, but it isn’t for everyone. This is not aimed at you, just my own input. My problem wasn’t constant depression like it felt like at first, rather bipolar mood swings. Having someone close enough to me that they could look at me and go “You’re unusually wired today, are you okay?” Was key to me figuring out what was going on. Mental issues are not always easy to spot from the inside as it were, so there is something to be said for an outside perspective. Just two cents from my life.
Hey, from one depressed person to another, I’m proud of whatever progress you’ve already made and your determination to keep pushing forward. Keep on fighting, friend.
Billie thinks she is trash and the only way for her to be with Ruth was when Ruth also was trash. If Ruth is getting better, that means Billie will be left behind.
It was exactly that that I hoped would be the motivation for Billie to actually WANT to get better, because if she won’t do it for Ruth I can’t see why else she would.
She’ll need to do it for herself anyway. Stopping drinking for another person usually doesn’t work.
Yeah but getting better takes effort and the maturity to face one’s own issues. I’m not so sure Billie has either of those things.
I think Billie is 100% sure she can’t be better.
On the other hand, I think Ruth was 100% sure she wouldn’t be alive for more than a few weeks this semester, and she was wrong.
Ruth has hit rock bottom. She reached the point where things needed to change, no matter the costs, because staying like this was no longer an option.
Billie hasn’t. She’s miserable, yes, but she’s okay with being miserable. Facing her problems and giving up alcohol still is more scary than being the way she is.
OK, I’m on one of those things again where I hone in on a totally inconsequential detail:
would Ruth really want a farm covered in femurs? Does Ruth even like femurs? Sure, she likes beating people with them. But I thought it was the beating part that was really important and the femurs were more of a weapon of choice.
Like there’s a difference between having a signature battleaxe and wanting to mount it over the fireplace.
Maybe the hockey team has a special femur fridge for her.
My understanding was always that the femurs were just a trophy. And since the Leafs aren’t about to get any other kind of trophy…
By the time the next semester begins, it’ll be roughly 2075, 108 years after the Leafs won their last championship. 108 years is how long the Chicago Cubs went without a championship. Coincidence? I think not. Unlike most of the rest of us, Ruth will live to see another Leafs championship.
The Mariners, however, will still be without a playoff appearance, and all of the 108s flying around will make a Suikoden storyline come true.
Billie’s in a weird spot. She’s both stunted on some things, and also making a lot of observations about herself by 18, even if I think her takeaways are the wrong ones.
I kind wonder if we’ll see more of Alice, to find out more about that, and to see if that’ll spur Billie forward some more.
Billie continued her binge drinking after getting a DUI while underage. I bet that recklessness was one of the red flags Alice ran from.
Also just want to note that Becky has learned the value of Using Her Words after being indirect with Dina failed badly.
Dina’s an outlier. It seems like she has trouble processing any nonverbal social cues, or at least for her it’s a deliberate process instead of something that comes naturally. She might not catch on to something she’s not expecting.
Pretty sure Becky’s talking about reading Joyce’s affection so wrongly and the disastrous kiss that followed.
Becky, Becky, Becky. You’ve *already* snagged yourself a girlfriend! You don’t need other very pretty girls gettin’ your cues! (Nor should be giving them cues)
Unless… does she mean that Dina doesn’t get her cues?
See above.
Wanna give Becky all the points for panel 2. I’m not great with subtlety (in general, not just relationship-type stuff), and do spend a lot of time wishing people could be more straightforward.
Billie, if you wanted Ruth to be in a better place you wouldn’t ignore her and make her feel like shit.
Does she want Ruth to get better? It sounds like she misses having someone going down in flames with her.
That’s certainly part of it. But I think it’s more that Billie can’t see a reality where she ISN’T going down in flames, and now that Ruth CAN do that, she doesn’t think things will work anymore. Letting Ruth go is easier than trying to save herself.
I don’t think “easier” is the point or even won’t work anymore.
She sees going down in flames as inevitable for her and that she’ll drag anyone she’s with down with her.
I’m poison. You’re poison, too. That doesn’t mean we have to be alone, anymore. We can touch each other.
But if Ruth isn’t poison, then that’s not true anymore.
I’m deciding to occasionally post music fitting the atmosphere of current strips.
Like this: https://youtu.be/Ka9ixc7fjUc
Billie, if you truly believe that then you’ll always find some way to make it true. Maybe it’s time instead to try to find some way to make a ‘better place’ work with you?
Man I’m projecting a lot right now when I say this but I feel like Ruth misses, not RL Billie exactly, but the Billie she thought she could have a healthy relationship with. I think Billie/Ruth has sunk and they can both be sad about it but also Ruth /is/ going to make it through this fine single, especially with Billie no longer under her jurisdiction.
For Billie, I have no idea. Something might change even within this conversation with Becky, who knows.
Living a more privileged life doesn’t always mean you should know better what to do. In fact, in many cases your sheltered experience means you’re utterly stunted in situations where people like Ruth find a path upward (perhaps even with your help) and power through.
Not clear how sheltered and privileged Billie is. Sure, her parents had money, but they also neglected her and used that money as a substitute for emotional support or even for being present. That’s much of the source of Billie’s problems. She’s also shown a lot of practical experience in dealing with some pretty harsh situations – mostly from her head cheerleader role, protecting her squad from abusive boyfriends and rape and arranging abortions.
She’s certainly sheltered in some ways, but I don’t think that’s getting in her way now as much as the self-loathing and alcoholism. And Ruth needed to be dragged to the hospital on suicide watch to start to turn around. Without that …
BILLY STOP BEING SO NOBLE
Noble would be buckling down and suffering through what it takes to get on the wagon and break the alcoholism. This is like, pseudonoble. (which may have been your point all along)
This isn’t noble, though. It’s self-destructive. Sure, she recognizes one of her negative cycles, but rather than doing anything to fix them (e.g. committing to stopping drinking or going to therapy, both of which are options that have been presented to her which she denied) she’s just taking it as-is like the act of being a shitty person is inevitable. Recognizing the problem is the first step, but actually doing things to fix it is the second, and she hasn’t come close to that yet.
Maybe Ruth IS better off without her (they were codependent as hell and LITERALLY formed a suicide pact) but it’s not Billie’s job to decide what’s best for Ruth, especially without her input.
Billie, go to therapy. Nobody likes constant self-deprecation. Stop acting like a Night in the Woods character.
Billie thinks she’s fundamentally toxic and worthless. So, she’s trying to ‘protect Ruth’ from herself. In the process, she’s hurting both of them. Like you said, someone desperately needs therapy or at least someone whom she trusts to tell her that she needs to change herself if she wants to stop being unhappy all the time.
I was kind of hoping that this moment of self-awareness would lead to getting help, but after reading your post I realise that’s probably naive.
Now there’s a thought. If the cast were all NitW-style animal people, what kind of animals would they be?
Every single one of them would be some form of tropical bird.
Billie makes a good but myopic point. Good places don’t survive her… because she keeps power walking all over the daisies!
Billie, holding a 10-gallon kerosene barrel and a box of matches: Damn it, my house is on fire and it’s my fault. If only I would stop doing this.
Hey now. She’s wanted to be hot stuff again. This seems like it could be a win.
i know its been a while since then but how did Ruth react to Finland beating Canada for the World Championship in Ice Hockey like
we went nuts thats all im saying
Hm, this is more self-awareness from Billie than I expected. Maybe something good can come from that eventually.
Ruth has Howard, who she must survive for. Billie just has her girlfriend, who might indeed be better off without her (though that doesn’t mean Billie should die, just end the relationship).
Better by far to try that therapy and stopping drinking thing. Both for her and for Ruth. Not easy and she’s not there yet, but the idea that Ruth is better off without her is too tied up in Billie’s self-loathing for me to like that as the actual resolution.
Yo Billie, remember that therapy thing Ruth was telling you about…? Yeahhhhh pretty sure she was right on that one.
All right, Billie! Self-awareness is a go!
Now try not drinking about it.
(Seriously though, she’s on the threshold, where people go “there’s something wrong with me” but don’t realize “and it’s been wrong with many, many people before me, and there are support groups and therapists and self-help books galore.” She needs to go forward off that threshold, not backward into a bottle or pinned in place by “I am the worst in the history of ever, I am singular in my dysfunction.”)
She has to want to stop drinking first.
Ah, wise
bartenderpizza (and subs) server Becky. She uses that fourth panel technique sometimes, simply a statement of fact and letting the person she talks to verbalize the next part herself.http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/02-everything-youve-ever-wanted/bridges-2/
She and Joe have a lot in common, most of all her refusal to confront her issues and insistence that things are fine the way they are when they clearly aren’t.
Is Billie implying that she is deliberately pushing Ruth away? I hope not, because Ruth can help Billie get out of her own hole.
At the moment Billie doesn’t want out of her hole.
Billie for gods sake if you want to end it, then end it. Give some closure and official ending rather than bullshit that extends it. If you are intent on ending it do both of you a favor and pull that band-aid off now.
I’m assuming you are referring to a formal break-up.
Your wording sounds like you are counselling suicide, which is not OK even for a fictional character. Please state clearly that this is not what you mean.
Considering this is a strip that’s talking about their relationship and suicide would not be a favor to anyone I thought it was very clear I was talking about ending her and Ruth’s relationship. ‘Closure’ is not really a thing associated with suicide.