Since the temperature needed to boil water has been reduced, for the purposes of _cooking_ you’d likely need *more* time, not less, since the amount of energy liquid water can deliver to the rice has been reduced. Now, if you were cooking _only_ to reheat and kill off bacteria, would boiling even be sufficient? One thought is that you’d need more time to kill more of the bacteria by energy delivery. Another is that less time might be ok, if the bacteria were being destroyed by the boiling action of steam popping them from inside by over pressuring.
Lastly, to be really pedantic, your point actually carries up to much higher altitudes past the triple point, where you could open your water container to release the pressure and it would boil and freeze at once. (a demonstration)
Now ‘minute rice’ is precooked and is just being rehydrated and warmed, but that still likely takes more time for rehydrating, so you probably don’t want to rush it, even if you’re “technically” following the instructions to the letter.
Honestly I think there’s something about the timer drift, because I very literally could only see this comic right now, and as soon as I come in there’s 18 comments already.
I believe it has to do with browser refresh and whether your browser just pulls up the page from temporary memory, or actually checks if there’s a new page. That, and Ana is on Patreon so the comment is premade to drop in with Ctrl+v.
Wow, I showed up at 11:50 EST and you’ve already shown up and gotten the first comment in. Its like a super-power! How do you do it? You’re not secretly a robot are you?
I would point out that Joyce so far has been talking about her pizza preferences — a perfectly acceptable topic for conversation “in the middle of a work shift” at a pizza restaurant.
I generally find those customers annoying when I’m working my retail job and need to get stuff done, but I’m getting paid by the hour so I pretend to care about what they’re saying.
Apparently this is considered polite in some small towns. I’ve seen people complain about how ‘rude’ customer service workers and customers from cities are because they won’t have long conversations and just try to move the interaction along.
Also for a bunch of people it’s their sole human interaction within the day. For others, it’s the sole safe one, where you can predict that you’re not going to get humiliated bc the saleperson is supposed not too – and has become this sort of safe acquaintance.
It’s not only in small towns, but quite everywhere where there is or was a sort of sense of solidarity between people living under the same conditions.
So Joyce walks into an establishment owned and operated by Galasso, specifically to have a conversation with an employee who would otherwise be unwilling to have one.
Congratulations, Joyce, you have officially become Duncan.
There is no planet Zeist. ‘Highlander 2’ does not exist. Seriously, both the worst film I ever paid money to see at the cinema and the most disapointing sequel.
I like sausage on pizza with mushroom and black olives, but in college for a while I was getting green onions instead of mushrooms, and that was also quite good.
Understandably though.
Even if Joyce has avoided saying anything inappropriate, her just going there is an invitation to this conversation. Her not opening with it doesn’t mean Becky’s at fault for responding to what she’s obviously there for.
Iiiiiii think we’re about to see Becky being the unreasonable one for awhile, based on that last dig she made.
Joyce has been insufferable, but that’s not REALLY what Becky hates the most. She despises the fact that Joyce even became an atheist in the first place. Because how dare she.
Which honestly is a lot of where I sincerely hope we’re going. As I’ve said before this whole storyline is so much more interesting if it addresses the issues on both sides of the table. Becky’s issues with Atheism have been quietly foreshadowed on many occasions throughout the comic’s entire run, and we’re about to capitalize on that here.
I’d argue that Becky’s been acting unreasonable for a long time, it’s just that more people seem to be annoyed when Joyce acts badly than when Becky does it for some reason that I don’t understand.
I’m about half-ish sure it’s a matter of presentation. Like, Becky is very upfront with ‘here I am, life has been shitty, but I AM A LESBIAN WOOO’ in addition to many of her traumas seemingly being the same way: up front and relatable. So the reaction when she ignores boundaries, or is possessive and controlling, or is cruel/vicious to a friend (most frequent targets Joyce and Dorothy, so it’s fine because the cruelty has always been baked in and they don’t fight back) is ‘she’s traumatized! things are rough for her! cut her some slack! she’s so brave! yes Becky always and forever no matter what! you go!’ And all of that is true! It genuinely is. Except for the problem bit: ‘yes Becky always and forever’ means it doesn’t matter what she does, no one says NO BECKY and means it.
Joyce, on the other hand, is not open. Not even really with herself, at least some of the time. And her trauma, except for Gashface possibly, isn’t as easy to relate to or take seriously. Oh no, you have libido? So do most people, Princess. Oh, your parents are getting divorced? Welcome to the club of about half of us. Oh, you don’t think you believe in god? Once again, a high-membership club. Oh, you were kidnapped, held hostage, and watched a man die? So did a bunch of other people, and THEY’RE fine. What’s YOUR problem, cis white girl from a well off family? You don’t have real problems. Where do YOU get off being a pill? When the truth is that Joyce does have problems, and she rarely gets actual support or understanding for most of them while they’re still undercurrents. Once they get bad enough to bubble to the surface, the reaction is ‘Joyce! I’m surprised and disappointed that you are being difficult! Stop now!’
Tl;dr – the base reaction to Becky anything is YES BECKY and the base reaction to much of Joyce is NO JOYCE because they as characters make those particular reactions easy
Good point. We have such expectations that color our reactions. I’m looking forward to a little more nuance (in comic story details and comments) coming up.
And Joyce thinks Becky’s stupid for still believing.
However this gets resolved, I’m going to bet we’re not going to see a clear “Joyce is right, Becky is wrong” or “Becky is right, Joyce is wrong” take on it.
Yeah, it can be a mix. I have sensory issues with foods, but I have on occasion taken a break from them, tried them again, and realized it didn’t bother me the same anymore. I almost enjoyed baked beans recently!
Yeah, at some point the fear of a new and potentially unsafe food becomes preemptive, not just ‘I don’t like this’ or ‘turns out I had a sensitivity we didn’t recognize all along.’ That said, the way Joyce talks about it reads more to me like anxiety over sensory to begin with given it’s apparently a fear of foods MIXING in particular. But then it raises the question of how she can easily consider mac and cheese or certain casseroles gestalt foods but the sausage on pizza is a discrete thing and then we come back to ‘probably texture’ and eh, who knows.
Anxiety about sensory issues leading to the avoidance of things she thinks might trigger them, but things she’s had enough to know they don’t trigger them are fine.
I find they go hand-in-hand. For me sensory no-nos can increase my anxiety level, and my anxiety level can impact my sensory comfort zone. If I’m chill then I actually enjoy different foods and am less bothered by things like upholstry. If I’m anxious then I can eat like… three things and a surprise bad-touch can send me over the edge.
Absolutely this. Kind of like how germaphobia-related OCD goes hand-in-hand with anxiety. It’s all often bundled together in a big stressful brain mess.
My experience with food aversions is like Joyce’s in that as I got older and got a better handle on my anxiety and neuroses, my diet expanded. But I also developed new random aversions over the years. Food aversions are complex and can be variable.
Becky is right. Joyce is overreacting and doesn’t need to completely abandon faith. Becky is also wrong. Overreacting and abandoning her faith is entirely Joyce’s decision to make.
I actually have always felt the idea Faith is something you have or have not to be silly. You are what you claim to be. If you say you believe, you do. Doubt and belief are things you choose between.
But I always hated people trying to drive it emotionally down my throat in church. I’m very logic-driven.
Maybe that’s how it works for some people, maybe those on the fence, but others can’t just decide to believe or not believe. To decide to have faith/ignore doubt implies a part of you still does believe it’s *possible*.
I’m an agnostic who desperately wants something to exist beyond this life but no amount of wanting it actually makes my brain stop being skeptical. I can try not to spend much time thinking about the skepticism and doubt but that doesn’t mean it’s not there, it just means I’m suppressing it and distracting myself from it while it still hangs out right under the surface. The second I try to think about the topic again all the doubt makes itself loudly known in my brain.
It’s a question of what you put your faith in. Even the atheist-est of atheists trusts their own perceptions, and most trust scientists and doctors and we all, at some level, persist in the Belief that our political representatives may occasionally act in our interests, rather than their own… and at the root of all, you’ve gotta have faith that your own senses are portraying reality to the lump of meat in your skull semi-accurately.
you’re conflating different meanings of “faith”. there’s working assumptions, and there’s axioms, and boy howdy does it change how you do business based on which you start with.
And yet, it’s still founded on faith in the system of statistics. Faith that each and every article and journal and case study was ACTUALLY produced with the necessary rigor. That the author didn’t make use of their clout to publish something patently ridiculous as a joke.
Everyone takes SOMETHING on trust; to do otherwise would drive them insane as they insist on verifying everything themself instead of trusting that the register calculated their grocery bill correctly, the contents of every box they purchased actually contains the correct ingredients in the right proportions, and that those lemons they bought aren’t actually mutant sour oranges.
I mean sure but that’s sort of a different discussion and a different concept of faith. I was referring to “religious faith” or “belief in mythological concepts that cannot be scientifically proven.”
Obviously everyone puts their trust in something to some degree, but what people are able to put their trust in varies and it’s not necessarily something you can just decide to have or not have, but rather the result of your individual brain processes, experiences, etc.
if you’re inherently suspicious of strangers for whatever reason, you can’t just decide “I’m going to trust strangers now.” Even if you try to be more trusting, that doubt and fear will still surface unless new experiences change the way your brain reacts. Same goes for not being able to suddenly decide you can trust that something is real without concrete scientific evidence. (Note, not saying one way of thinking is superior to any other, just saying objectively that some people are more inherently skeptical for one reason or another, whether they want to be or not).
There are also different variations and degrees of it. I classify myself as an agnostic because I accept it is possible there are things about the universe/life we don’t know/understand but accepting something *could* exist is still very different from feeling confident that it does/affirmatively believing it likely does. And religious faith is the latter.
Joyce discovered her faith was a malicious lie intended to control her, and reacted accordingly. Becky never shared that faith, since she more or less made her own.
It’s only been mentioned once – in the strip where Joyce discussed all the changes in her life as reasons why she didn’t want glasses – but it was definitely stated.
Walkypedia doesn’t have a ton of editors so I wouldn’t be shocked if Hank and Carol’s pages just haven’t been a priority since neither of them has appeared since the timeskip. (I keep thinking I should help fix that but have approximately none energy.)
Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:29,30).
But that’s not “til death do you part”. In fact, the one that’s out of the marriage bonds is the one that dies. The one that lives is STILL bound by the marriage. Death parted them, and the woman’s still bound to it.
I’m not sure how it is in other countries, but here in the US a lot of Christian denominations seem to teach the exact opposite of what Jesus says in their holy book that they claim to follow.
Being from JesusLand (The Bible Belt), they teach all of the scriptures but then explain that Jesus meant exactly the opposite of what he said. Like for example Joyce has undoubtedly heard, “blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God.” I.e. Blessed are the Poor, they shall go to Heaven.
Then will have it explained, “Rich people are awesome.”
Neither of their Christianity’s came from reading the text. Joyce got her version from their church, but not really from the Bible, despite their insistence on literalism. Becky took a less literalist approach, at least partly due to her conflicts with her father, absorbing what she saw as the important parts, but again that wasn’t based on any deep reading of the Bible itself. She doesn’t need that. She knows God loves her. He sent a superhero to save her.
Well, love may be in the text, but that not Joyce’s parents and church community enacted it. If she’s not been encouraged to think things through for herself, you can’t really fault her reading skills.
Dropping her religion is not an overreaction. Being atheist isn’t some extreme fringe thing. Her behaviour about it has been over-the-top, but honestly so has everyone else’s around her.
She was heavily indoctrinated into what amounts to a cult. Discovering what she personally believes about her world and admitting it? Normal growth and self-realization.
Sometimes people are just atheists. Certain parts of this comments section really need to get okay with that.
Yeah, this. Would expand your last sentence to, “certain parts of the population really need to get okay with that.” But otherwise, 100%.
Religious people interpreting me being open about my personal lack of faith as a targeted insult to their faith, in particular, is one of the banes of my existence.
Yeah, even arguing that it wasn’t an overreaction because of her circumstances implies that if things hadn’t been so bad it would have been an overreaction, while really it doesn’t even need to be a reaction at all.
Plenty of people become atheists without any great trauma to react to.
I really do hope we get an honest heart-to-heart about the reasons why Joyce doesn’t believe any more, hopefully with Joyce articulating them a little more clearly than last time, though I’m not sure “while Becky is supposed to be waiting more tables than just Joyce’s” is the best time for one.
On the bright side, we’ve established Glasso as being very understanding (in his own, bizarre way) of Becky’s emotional issues regarding this. So it’s highly unlikely we’ll see him stomping in to threaten to fire Becky for slacking.
Which could make the whole conversation capsize if it did happen, and without that established would be a dangling damocles over their heads.
“You tell yourself you’re afraid of the different person you’re becoming, but only because a change would be easier to swallow than admitting she’s who you’ve been all along.”
Specifically, Booster tells Joyce that it’s easier for herself to say she’s changing than it is for her to admit that this is who she’s been all along.
Which I choose to read less as “Joyce was just always an atheist in the exact definition” and more “Joyce now lacks the thing she had that gave her life meaning, except her life already has meaning because she’s alive and she innately matters.”
Our old familiar dependable webcomic. Always here rain or shine, even on Christmas Day. Such a priceless rarity. Such a wonderful ritual at the end of each day. Thank you, Willis, and Merry Hogswatch, Christmas, Festivus, belated Solstice, and Happy Holidays to you.
Maybe she liked the sausage juice on the pizza in addition to eating the sausage separately. I remember I kind of did that with tomatoes on pizza when younger. I also thought pineapple juice itself wasn’t so bad but couldn’t eat the pineapples themselves.
And here we see, yes, the atheism is in and of itself a problem for Becky and no amount of Joyce softening it would have made it a conflictless discussion. Dina’s different, she’s never known a Dina who was Christian. (And frankly I lowkey suspect Becky half-thinks Dina can be converted or something. Either way she clearly thinks of it as ‘oh Dina’s wrong but whatever’ but they’ll go to heaven and Dina will see she was wrong.) Joyce losing faith means Joyce actively making the Wrong Decision in Becky’s mind when she had previously been properly Jesus-loving. Add in the ‘lost literally all other vestiges of former life’ and Joyce’s faith previously seeming like an unshakable rock she could count on, add in the insecurity over Joyce’s best friendship, and add a dash of ‘your trauma isn’t as bad as MINE and I still believe,’ and you have a cocktail of issues that would make Joyce’s atheism different from Dina’s or Dorothy’s or anyone else’s. It’s not entirely rational, but there it is.
Get your plates of local college pizza place appetizers, ‘cause we have a fight coming.
I firmly believe she gets around the Dina issue by aggressively Not Thinking About It, because we’ve seen Becky think that Dina would be *angry* to go to a perfect heaven just because it’d mean she’s wrong, which seems an awful lot like projection.
Also because Dina doesn’t care much about the faith stuff, as long as it doesn’t take on an anti-science bend.
“An’ Dina, who’s probably very upset about all of this being real!”
I wouldn’t say that she thinks Dina would be angry about it, but she’s really not giving Dina enough credit. Dina has been shown to be pretty adaptable when it comes to changing her beliefs/knowledge/understanding when confronted with new evidence.
“Aggressively Not Thinking About It” is Becky’s go-to coping mechanism. Problem is that tends to turn a simmering pot of personal issues into a pressure cooker, boiling until it violently explodes.
This. Becky is taking Joyce’s deconversion personally.
The irony is, Becky long ago stopped believing the christianity they were raised in. If she’d believed like she was “supposed” to, she’d still be closeted, and guilty and self-hating to boot. Joyce actually believed what they were taught. Becky modified it to suit herself.
Becky only believes in the right Christianity if the “right Christianity” is “everything about it with nothing that has any negative impact or consequence.”
Which is explictly what Jesus taught. A large part of Jesus’ ministry is that dogma is evil and that anything that is not good is not of God. A lot of people here keep saying Becky is making up her interpretation of Christianity but it’s pretty much the actual stuff Jesus said.
“Older than they think” and “Truer to the Text” Tv tropes.
Becky textually thinks Dina is wrong but is willing to hold off on arguing about it, until they’re dead and in heaven and Becky laughs and laughs about how mad Dina is about being wrong, iirc. Like, that’s something close to a thing she said.
When I was younger I had the idea of only atheists going to Heaven. “I didn’t give you any evidence of an afterlife, and you didn’t believe in one. Well done!”
I don’t know enough about religion to comment on if Becky is digging her heels into it in an attempt to salvage something of her upbringing so instead I’ll just point out that Joyce is taking up a large table just so she could talk to Becky which is a bit uncool.
I think that depends a lot on how busy the place is, and if there are any small tables at all. At smaller pizza places I go to for example, there will often only be only one size of booth.
Joyce asked for Becky’s section specifically. She was clearly unafraid of the vengeful powers Becky has at her disposal, therefore Joyce deserves all the space that can be allotted to her.
I dont see this conversation going well, and from that last panel it looks like it’s Becky’s turn to be the unreasonable one
If it gets too loud and emotional and Becky gets reprimanded or worse fired I could see that making things worse between them too with Becky (not completely unreasonably) thinking “Joyce got me fired”
If Becky gets fired, she can just ignore it and show up and she gets paid anyway, because Galasso will have forgotten about firing her in the first place. That’s how it works in Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs)!
The fact that we are seeming about to address the Becky half of the problematic conflict is relieving, even though I trusted Willis as a writer generally.
Honestly I know that this is a low probability bet on what might happen, but what a part of me hopes for is for this to still blow up and not go well at all, but this time because of Becky. And then for Dorothy and Sarah to bully Joyce and assume “she wasn’t even trying” like they did the last time.
Because remember, they won’t have any more information now about this topic than they did about the previous conversation when they acted in what (I took as) overly negative manners. It’d make it feel a lot less like Willis self inserted into Sarah in that one comic to say to his past self “you didn’t even try”. It’d create a whole lot of drama in the interpersonal relationships between the characters.
It’d provide a good aesop about forming very strong opinions about things you have no information on that you very easily could have gotten *some* information on. Which I think most of us could agree is a big problem in modern day society.
For both of them, God was never presented as optional.
They were both indoctrinated into a religious cult. Joyce (lacking faith) interacted with it more like a cult, and Becky (having faith) interacted with it more like a religion.
Talking about it like Joyce decided how she was going to use faith to elevate herself, and not like a literal child was taught to fear eternal torture if she believed wrong or not strongly enough and coped with that the best way she could, is gross and short-sighted.
Oh wow, yes please. Never thought I’d be anxious for Booster’s psychological one-hit KOs, but you’re right, this whole situation is basically tailor-made for them.
It’s taking Becky’s accusation at face value which is REALLY bizarre given everything we know about Joyce that Becky specifically does not know, and nowhere on Joyce’s character sheet is the trait “likes to be superior to people.”
Her primary character trait has always been her overwhelming compassion, and the self-righteousness has always been a side effect of the cross section of her neuroses and abusive upbringing.
It is gross that Joyce is getting slapped with Mary’s description.
There’s a bit in the ‘I am right and have things figured out and everyone else will realize I am right and all will be good’ department – mostly seen in the earlier books when she was Christian, and then Atheist Edition now, but it was THERE. (Discussing the idea of Parent Trapping Joe’s parents, her weirdness about Ethan and Joe being Jewish, the whole Ethan being gay thing.) But while Joyce came back to it now that she Finally Knows Everything as an atheist (after being egged on by Liz, and getting defensive from the fight, and probably tying into her idealization of Dorothy a bit as well,) it’s a thing she’s consistently been able to put aside when she realizes she DOESN’T in fact know everything. She’s spent most of the series reassessing as she discovered everything she was taught is wrong, though. As a result, I get her going to the comforting regression of ‘atheism will solve all my uncertainties and now I know everything again’ now that she’s accepting that she is an atheist, and I get people being surprised by the smugness, but it does largely make sense and I suspect she’ll snap out of this part sooner rather than later even if the Becky conflict lasts a while yet.
There is, but I think casting it as “Joyce likes to feel superior” isn’t really the right take. She thought she was right and could be smug about it, but she didn’t want to use that to be better than others, she wanted to spread the word so they could all be in the cool club.
Yeah, how I see it is that Joyce didn’t think she was right, she just knew she was right until reality conflicted with the pain she was causing, or could cause, whereupon she adjusted.
Agreed. It’s not really about lording it over other people, because she wants them to make the right (perfectly agreeing with her worldview) choices, but it can easily come off to others that way because, well. She’s saying that her way is the right and proper way and everyone else is wrong. A bit of judgment and superiority is implicit in that, even if Joyce isn’t doing it TO feel like she’s better than everyone else.
It can certainly come off to others that way, but if we’re analyzing her character we should see past it.
And not just trust Becky to be right when she says it in the middle of a fight.
See, I get the impression that she *believed* in God – in the Rich Mullins dream, for example, she concluded that maybe she had never really felt God’s presence, which to me implies that she had long-believed that she was really experiencing it. But, when other beliefs holding that up crumbled, trusting the sources who had told her for example, and trusting the sometimes-really-tenuous arguments as to why that particular brand of Christianity was exactly right, the bottom fell out and her belief in God went with it.
Plus, all of the super-traumatizing things she went through, with religious folk almost always on the wrong side of it, probably didn’t help.
I have an uncle who is devotedly Christian who told me something to the effect that if any *one* thing was wrong, he’d conclude that all of Christianity was wrong – that it all has to be inerrant to hold together, I guess? – and I get the impression that Joyce is coming from a similar place. In that mindset, someone might try to hold on extra hard to all of the little things, because if they don’t, they could lose the whole thing. I personally think it’s a bit unreasonable, regardless of whether the religious ideas had merit – it just seems like it’s putting a lot of stock in you having already heard the *exact* right things, and that whatever translation you’re going with has to be *exactly* right, etc.. I’d guess that Becky took the more liberal Christian approach where you get to paint with somewhat broader strokes, and hold on to the big important ideas, and being ready to give up or reinterpret ideas which run counter to those. …But maybe that’s what you mean when you say Joyce never believed, because Joyce was married to the whole system being true, whereas Becky believed in and held onto specific parts of her religion to form her spirituality?
Your daily reminder that we have no actual evidence that Joyce “never believed” or “never felt faith.” We have her questioning what it was she felt – which is entirely normal for people deconverting.
The textual stuff is in Joyce’s Rich Mullins dream where she admits she doesn’t think she ever heard God’s voice when praying.
To me, the subtext there is that Joyce’s belief was rooted in being told what was right and wrong, and then she ardently stuck to it. Joyce did not feel God, but she was told by the adults in her life that he was there, and the adults in Joyce’s life were her actual authority figures.
Yeah, Needfuldoer’s ‘convinced herself it was real because it had to be’ just upthread sums up my stance on that. That moment is Joyce(‘s unconscious) exploring and admitting to herself that maybe this was her all along, and it’s reinforced by her reaction to Booster’s psychoanalysis at the hall meeting where they say precisely that and she’s like ‘hahaha weird how THIS ONE ALONE is false, right? Ha.’ Clearly uncomfortable, clearly way more accurate than she wants to admit.
The point I repeatedly try to raise is that we don’t know how Joyce “felt god” at the time. Now, she acknowledges that maybe she didn’t feel it but at the time… who knows.
This is a pet peeve because I watch people in the comments here turn that into “Joyce never had REAL faith,” and that’s just some bullshit No True Scotsman logic.
I’m definitely the CEO of saying “Joyce never had REAL faith” and I stand by it for the reasons I’ve stated.
The only faith Joyce had was in a nearby adult telling her what to do, say, or think, and what they told her is that God was real. That was the foundation of her belief in God rather than anything personal.
Becky has picked off and discarded all the parts of the pizza she didn’t like. The sausage; the sauce; the crust. All that’s left is the (melted) cheese, sitting on a plate.
But it’s still a sausage pizza. Somehow. Because that’s what she thinks and says it is.
For a lot of Christians, Jesus made a sausage pizza. It was all about love, anarchism, and resistance to authority. It also said you could throw away anything that wasn’t good and cool.
For a lot of churches, they took this and went. “Yes, except do the opposite of this.”
Oo, cool analogy! If you deconstruct the pizza/teachings, is it still the essential thing? Is pizza really pizza without cheese (my spouse says so). Is pizza without sauce really pizza? Baked bread with nothing on it? Ummm. Is Christianity without ___ really Christian? Is religion without __ really religion? Discuss.
To be a pizza, you need 2 of the 4 original ingredient provided one is Roman crust.
Otherwise its 3 and a modifier aka pizza bagel. Substitutions can be made for basil, provided its a green aromatic Italian spice. ( oregano, parsley ) Italian flag ppl
You can’t substitute all the mozzarella for non similar cheeses ( asiago ok, American cheddar not ) and still call it pizza.
So, here’s my take on it. Becky is upset because she believes that Joyce is giving up her faith because she thinks she needs to in order to support Becky’s sexuality. Becky has come to the realization that LGBT and religion don’t have to be mutually exclusive and thinks that Joyce is going too far to be supportive. She does not realize that the LGBT stuff is just one straw in a huge bail that broke Joyce’s faith.
Becky is being kind of self-centered (not in the selfish way, but in the way of seeing things from her specific perspective). Joyce is seeing everything around her crumbling at its foundation: Becky’s family, Joyce’s parents, views on gays, the intrinsic goodness of God and how a “good” deity would allow all the recent bad things to happen, seeing moral people who are atheist and immoral Christians.. It’s too much for Joyce’s fragile faith that was built on the word of people she no longer trusts.
Becky hasn’t experienced everything that Joyce has. She’s understandably focused on what happened to her involving her mom and father. Everything on her radar is very personal to her. She didn’t know Mike or have any real connection with the other people who’ve been traumatized. She already saw her father as someone she couldn’t trust, so didn’t have to go through the part of questioning all the things that people had told her about God. She’d already been through that and relied more on the message of her religion rather than on the words of others by this point.
I think once Joyce spills the reason for her questioning of religion, Becky will understand. I don’t think she will agree. But she will be able to talk to Joyce about it more calmly and without the anger and disdain. After all, she doesn’t have anything against atheism itself (her girlfriend is one, after all), only the very sudden shift in Joyce’s demeanor.
Well, this is a totally unsurprising response from Becky. Maybe a situation where the emotional framing is different will help more people realize how awful Becky has been.
Except one Becky has only ever known as am Athiest and the other she’s explicitly tied their friendship to what she perceived as their shared faith
It’s like people don’t remember back when the timeskip happened she was laying on the religious stuff with Joyce thick enough that most the comments section thought Becky had figured it out and was trying to poke Joyce’s buttons so she’d admit it
Not to mention she also still seems to not think very highly of nonbelievers faith. Becky’s faith is flexible. But she still assumed Dina would for some reason be ‘mad’ when/if she finds out that she gets to live in paradise, forever?
I mean, why wouldn’t Dina be mad? If that’s the case, God made a universe with a whole bunch of solvable rules that we could figure out, but made magic real anyway, didn’t actually tell us, expected us to figure us out ourselves, and punish us if we fail? I think Dina would rather just go to hell, than be patronized like that. Even by God.
On the other hand, when Dina finds out she’s wrong about something, she tends to just accept the new information and discard any beliefs that were founded on whatevs was just found to be less supported by new evidence (like the fact that dinosaurs were more likely to hompk than roar).. If she were to die and go to heaven, she’d have empirical evidence that an afterlife exists, and she’d probs adjust her worldview to include that without much issue.. Evidence matters more to her than being her beliefs being immutable “fact” since she recognizes that new evidence could always disprove something she previously believed based on “incomplete but best available at the time” facts..
I think Dina might be a little miffed. I don’t think it ever occurred to her that any kind of religion would be something she might need or even be interested in. She has Scientific Fact. But now she ends up with it anyway.
To be honest, I do think she figured it out. She was just being Too Wacky to make a direct confrontation about it. But Becky very often plays goofball while knowing exactly what she’s doing (see: helping keep Ruth and Billie split, sneaking her way into Robin’s account, acting like a horny goof to pretend Joyce wasn’t being disparaging towards their religious upbringing.)
And in this most recent case, pretending the sausage comment is about atheism while knowing exactly what Joyce meant.
oh no no, not a jpeg. your actual butt. it’s the next big bullshit investment, instead of buying a placeholder to a piece of digital art, you buy a title that stands in for the concept of Spencer’s butt.
Well, good to know I was right on the money on this being the main reason Becky didn’t accept Joyce’s apology. It’s also why she threw out a pretty baseless accusation about Joyce and being ‘superior’
I would bet dollars to doughnuts that based on earlier comments, she doesn’t think Joyce is ‘traumatized’ enough to claim that she no longer believes. But the thing is, Becky has *never* truly believed their church teachings. Joyce did, and was indoctrinated into doing so by her family.
I think part of the reason she accused Joyce of using her ‘new’ beliefs to act superior, is because it’s actually something Becky does more. Not necessarily religious beliefs, cuz as we saw Becky believed her ‘own’ version of it. But a pretty consistent theme of her character has been, well, that. Not loudly like Joyce has been doing, but in the subtleties. She believes her faith makes her better than other people.
Like yeah, we see that she’s ‘fine’ with Dina, but it’s because, I image, she doesn’t think about it. Like her first assumption about if Dina were to find out that Becky’s beliefs are correct and she gets to live in paradise… would be anger? Which doesn’t make much sense, but because it’s becky being a goof, we gloss over it.
Anyway, my 2 cents on that. Can’t wait to see what other people think, especially some who thought that this somehow wasn’t about Becky having an issue with Joyce losing faith.
It would be pretty interesting that all the bad accusations they seemed to be hurling were more or less at each other. Maybe Becky doesn’t think Joyce think she was religious just for the purpose of acting superior really. That was one thing I don’t get why people act Becky was 100 on or as taking as gospel.
Maybe Becky subconsciously thinks she herself acts that way herself (and to be fair she sometimes does, Becky absolutely looks down her nose at atheism). Maybe Becky even has some slight fears with the pic and mix religion she’s made for herself even if a lot of people do that including the church they were raised in.
And Joyce really views herself as an idiot as others have mentioned. (And some of the stuff she believed was stupid and did awful things because of it but it doesn’t mean she was an idiot just.. brainwashed and barely an adult.)
Oh, joyce absolutely does. That was 100% what I took away from her rant fest with Liz- most people in college has treated her religion as joke or a weird quirk about her since the start of the comic. She thinks she’s stupid and was more directing her vitriol at her past self. Becky happened to overhear it and when Joyce wouldn’t rescind her atheism Becky went for the throat with insults.
Becky and Claire from QC should never be allowed to work food service in the same time and place. The resulting sass would be the destruction of us all.
I think both. Well, I don’t think it’s the athiest thing in particular as much as “how could you take away one of the few things I could still depend on?” which translates into the athiest thing.
It’s sort of spreading out, like a spill. Like when Joyce went from zero to saying things like “take that, Becky!” because now everything is justified. They’re working from similar assumptions
this section has felt a bit too intense for me lately, i still read most comments most days, but deciding not to comment has been soothing actually if slightly frustrating now and then. eh, at some point i’ll probably feel willing and able to post again but lately i was like… “hmmmm nah”
myself i observe a satanist ritual known as “Merry DEATH to 2021 aaaahahahaha!!!”. as is tradition i watch 1 horror movie every night for a week. it’s been delightful, i’m very pleased with myself.
Okay, apologies if someone’s already said this, but there’s a lot of replies here.
1) Becky, Joyce is allowed to be an atheist.
2) Joyce, Becky would probably be more accepting if you didn’t think being an atheist also means being a massive jerk. Dorothy isn’t like this, so why do you feel you have to be?
3) Joyce, if weird food things make you comfortable, don’t feel you have to give them up because “everything’s changed now”.
4) Alt-text, growing up is highly over-rated and I advocate resisting it as much as possible.
Damn it Becky, there’s nothing wrong with Joyce being an atheist. It’s not over-reacting to become one, especially considering what she’s been through in the past few months.
Occasionally someone will tell me I never really believed in Christianity because I ended up atheist. But that’s wrong; I did believe, but I was conflicted about it. Like Thomas in the bible.
The same is probably true for Joyce, but she was never allowed to entertain any thoughts of doubt. So there’s something of a dam bursting when she finally looks at them squarely. In this one respect, Becky’s traumatic childhood gave her permission to find a balance before the shit actually hit the fan.
Also occasionally someone will tell me I’m not really an atheist; that I secretly believe and just need to admit it. That’s super-condescending and annoying, and Christians do it to atheists all the time.
It bothers me when Christians say some people aren’t real Christians, because it implies Christianity can’t be wrong and True Christians™ are a small, select group.
TL:DR, second-guessing people on their beliefs is not much better than predicting the future with tea leaves. If someone says they’re a Christian, or an atheist, that’s a good bet.
Agreed, you put your finger on what irritates me about the idea that Joyce’s faith was never real.
The idea that person who’s now an atheist “never believed” somehow implies that they “did it wrong”. As if a Real Christian can’t change their mind… it’s like retroactively taking away their club card to Win, because a Real Christian wouldn’t have doubts.
It’s not that Joyce being an atheist means she was never a Christian, it’s that she was raised to believe an objective doctrine that was incompatible with what she felt was right or that she could engage in.
Also she admitted (in a dream) that she never heard God’s voice when she prayed, because Joyce’s real God was “the nearest authority figure.”
So, has Becky ever broken another of the ten commandments, besides taking the Lord’s name in vain, or was she taught that Old Testament rules no longer apply since the creation of the New Testament?
Depending on how you view her use of campaign funds, or breaking into her childhood home to get her documents, she might also have broken the “don’t steal” one.
Were they? Joyce and Dorothy, and Becky and Dina are becoming fair better pairs. Becky called Joyce her “bestie in Christ.” Perhaps religion really is what tied them together, like trauma-bonding.
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ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT JOYCE
HAVE YOU ACTUALLY SAUSAGED A PIZZA OR ARE YOU JUST REBELLING AGAINST CHRISTIAN JOYCE™ PIZZA
How are you so fast? I was literally spamming refresh waiting to get first comment.
I’m guessing it has to do with time magic. Am I close?
Ana has many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
I’m told they can also kiss their elbow and boil minute rice in 55 seconds.
At low enough altitudes it should be possible to boil minute rice in 55 seconds since the air pressure and boiling temperature of water increase.
That raises an interesting point:
Since the temperature needed to boil water has been reduced, for the purposes of _cooking_ you’d likely need *more* time, not less, since the amount of energy liquid water can deliver to the rice has been reduced. Now, if you were cooking _only_ to reheat and kill off bacteria, would boiling even be sufficient? One thought is that you’d need more time to kill more of the bacteria by energy delivery. Another is that less time might be ok, if the bacteria were being destroyed by the boiling action of steam popping them from inside by over pressuring.
Lastly, to be really pedantic, your point actually carries up to much higher altitudes past the triple point, where you could open your water container to release the pressure and it would boil and freeze at once. (a demonstration)
Ah. Cooks say rice needs more time, not less.
Now ‘minute rice’ is precooked and is just being rehydrated and warmed, but that still likely takes more time for rehydrating, so you probably don’t want to rush it, even if you’re “technically” following the instructions to the letter.
But with a few magnets, cooking regular rice takes less than a minute of effort…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSTNhvDGbYI
always great to see a Technology Connections link
Honestly I think there’s something about the timer drift, because I very literally could only see this comic right now, and as soon as I come in there’s 18 comments already.
I had one suggestion a few weeks back, but have changed my mind about that. My new theory now involves DeLoreans.
I’m going with Ana has a TARDIS.
I’m older than you, my theory usually involves a sled like arrangement with a large spinning wheel in the back. Or a black and white tunnel!
I believe it has to do with browser refresh and whether your browser just pulls up the page from temporary memory, or actually checks if there’s a new page. That, and Ana is on Patreon so the comment is premade to drop in with Ctrl+v.
That’s what they want you to think.
Wow, I showed up at 11:50 EST and you’ve already shown up and gotten the first comment in. Its like a super-power! How do you do it? You’re not secretly a robot are you?
I think “pie” is the more appropriate term, here. Sausaged a pie.
I considered pie but the Lucy in my head gave me the same criticism she gave Walky about Jawsome!
Becky, she is perfectly sithin her rights to be an atheist and considering everything that has happened, I can’t blame her.
Also, while I’m glad they are talking but, is talking in the middle of a work shift seem like the best time?
Boss makes a dollar, Becky makes a dime. That’s why she has heart-to-hearts on company time.
also galasso lives in fear of her god’s divine wrath, apparently
I would point out that Joyce so far has been talking about her pizza preferences — a perfectly acceptable topic for conversation “in the middle of a work shift” at a pizza restaurant.
Yup. Becky’s the one trying to drag subtext out of the conversation.
Yeah, but the subtext is there just by Joyce showing up.
tbf, plenty of customers will talk your ear off/hold up the line for like 5+ mins by taking the “how’s it going/how are you” literally
I generally find those customers annoying when I’m working my retail job and need to get stuff done, but I’m getting paid by the hour so I pretend to care about what they’re saying.
I’m okay with people wasting my time when I *start* my shift
I don’t ask that question at work unless I’m really asking did we do something wrong or is there something you wanted to ask for?
Apparently this is considered polite in some small towns. I’ve seen people complain about how ‘rude’ customer service workers and customers from cities are because they won’t have long conversations and just try to move the interaction along.
Also for a bunch of people it’s their sole human interaction within the day. For others, it’s the sole safe one, where you can predict that you’re not going to get humiliated bc the saleperson is supposed not too – and has become this sort of safe acquaintance.
It’s not only in small towns, but quite everywhere where there is or was a sort of sense of solidarity between people living under the same conditions.
Uh… 8-bit Joyce and Becky are still blowing each other and Tag if you’d rather see them do that.
Otherwise I don’t feel like touching this sausage-y strip tonight folks. :\
Phrasing.
What? Am I somehow obliged to make EVERYTHING I post NSFW?
I was just joking about it sounding nsfw when you phrased it like that. It’s not a criticism, sorry if it came off that way.
Are we still doing phrasing?
Don’t worry, we set our phraser on stun.
So Joyce walks into an establishment owned and operated by Galasso, specifically to have a conversation with an employee who would otherwise be unwilling to have one.
Congratulations, Joyce, you have officially become Duncan.
… MacLeod?
of the clan MacLeod?
“Remember Joyce when we first met, 500 years ago on the planet Zeist!”
There is no planet Zeist. ‘Highlander 2’ does not exist. Seriously, both the worst film I ever paid money to see at the cinema and the most disapointing sequel.
While I disagree with you about the original, I am entirely on board with your opinion of the sequel.
There should have been only One.
Something something baby goat.
You know what. It’s Boxing Day and I’m still bored.
What do you like on your sausage?
Oh come on, I mean the FOOD kind!
And once again my attempt at initiating conversation fell flat
I like sausage on pizza with mushroom and black olives, but in college for a while I was getting green onions instead of mushrooms, and that was also quite good.
I suspect that it wasn’t good for the onions.
Avocado, arugula, crispy onion strings, and basil aioli.
Dog Haus has introduced me to the magical world of burger toppings on veggie sausage and I am a full convert.
Check out chilean Hot Dogs.
I just googled this and omg they look delicious. I love sauerkraut, Mayo, avocado, and salsa. Would 100% eat a Chilean veggie dog.
On sausage? Gravy, made from the grease of said sausage. Then dump the whole affair on top of some biscuits.
Breakfast of Champions
Other sausage: peperoni.
Food that touches other food!
2 things
One, this is not the time or place for this, she should have e waited until Becky was off her shift
Two, becoming an Atheist is not “overreacting” no matter what the reason for the change
[Two, becoming an Atheist is not “overreacting” no matter what the reason for the change]
It is in a world with a god. I mean, lets face it, we know they have one.
He is a Porn Lord who Joyce is specifically the Chosen One of.
While her specifically seeking out Becky at work is a red flag, so far Joyce hasn’t said anything inappropriate. Becky is the one getting personal.
Understandably though.
Even if Joyce has avoided saying anything inappropriate, her just going there is an invitation to this conversation. Her not opening with it doesn’t mean Becky’s at fault for responding to what she’s obviously there for.
Fair. Becky doesn’t go much for preamble. Why else would Joyce be there and (assuming anyone else works tables) insist on Becky?
Iiiiiii think we’re about to see Becky being the unreasonable one for awhile, based on that last dig she made.
Joyce has been insufferable, but that’s not REALLY what Becky hates the most. She despises the fact that Joyce even became an atheist in the first place. Because how dare she.
Ahh, equal opportunity exaggerated dickery. Really looking forward to tomorrow’s comment section.
I don’t think we’ll get as vitriolic as the initial falling out.
I hope so, at least
Cannot wait for all the lowkey “Becky’s right because Atheism”.
better than the explicit “when becky’s an asshole, she’s just being ‘unapologetic’ “.
Which honestly is a lot of where I sincerely hope we’re going. As I’ve said before this whole storyline is so much more interesting if it addresses the issues on both sides of the table. Becky’s issues with Atheism have been quietly foreshadowed on many occasions throughout the comic’s entire run, and we’re about to capitalize on that here.
Sounds like a fun conversation for Dina to walk in on.
Yessssss MAXIMUM DRAMA.
…Which actually sounds horrible. But yeah, I agree, narratively that’s a pretty strong and hilarious choice.
Yeah this might get ugly
I’d argue that Becky’s been acting unreasonable for a long time, it’s just that more people seem to be annoyed when Joyce acts badly than when Becky does it for some reason that I don’t understand.
I’m about half-ish sure it’s a matter of presentation. Like, Becky is very upfront with ‘here I am, life has been shitty, but I AM A LESBIAN WOOO’ in addition to many of her traumas seemingly being the same way: up front and relatable. So the reaction when she ignores boundaries, or is possessive and controlling, or is cruel/vicious to a friend (most frequent targets Joyce and Dorothy, so it’s fine because the cruelty has always been baked in and they don’t fight back) is ‘she’s traumatized! things are rough for her! cut her some slack! she’s so brave! yes Becky always and forever no matter what! you go!’ And all of that is true! It genuinely is. Except for the problem bit: ‘yes Becky always and forever’ means it doesn’t matter what she does, no one says NO BECKY and means it.
Joyce, on the other hand, is not open. Not even really with herself, at least some of the time. And her trauma, except for Gashface possibly, isn’t as easy to relate to or take seriously. Oh no, you have libido? So do most people, Princess. Oh, your parents are getting divorced? Welcome to the club of about half of us. Oh, you don’t think you believe in god? Once again, a high-membership club. Oh, you were kidnapped, held hostage, and watched a man die? So did a bunch of other people, and THEY’RE fine. What’s YOUR problem, cis white girl from a well off family? You don’t have real problems. Where do YOU get off being a pill? When the truth is that Joyce does have problems, and she rarely gets actual support or understanding for most of them while they’re still undercurrents. Once they get bad enough to bubble to the surface, the reaction is ‘Joyce! I’m surprised and disappointed that you are being difficult! Stop now!’
Tl;dr – the base reaction to Becky anything is YES BECKY and the base reaction to much of Joyce is NO JOYCE because they as characters make those particular reactions easy
Good point. We have such expectations that color our reactions. I’m looking forward to a little more nuance (in comic story details and comments) coming up.
I agree. Look at Joyce’s face! I’m not sure I have ever seen her look so subdued and apologetic.
And Joyce thinks Becky’s stupid for still believing.
However this gets resolved, I’m going to bet we’re not going to see a clear “Joyce is right, Becky is wrong” or “Becky is right, Joyce is wrong” take on it.
Hm. “I was over-reacting” does point to anxiety issues over purely sensory ones, or at least sensory issues amplified by anxiety.
Yeah, it can be a mix. I have sensory issues with foods, but I have on occasion taken a break from them, tried them again, and realized it didn’t bother me the same anymore. I almost enjoyed baked beans recently!
Yeah, at some point the fear of a new and potentially unsafe food becomes preemptive, not just ‘I don’t like this’ or ‘turns out I had a sensitivity we didn’t recognize all along.’ That said, the way Joyce talks about it reads more to me like anxiety over sensory to begin with given it’s apparently a fear of foods MIXING in particular. But then it raises the question of how she can easily consider mac and cheese or certain casseroles gestalt foods but the sausage on pizza is a discrete thing and then we come back to ‘probably texture’ and eh, who knows.
That Joyce was able to eat sausage at means it’s a fear of foods being perceived to be mixed, regardless of their actual composition
Anxiety about sensory issues leading to the avoidance of things she thinks might trigger them, but things she’s had enough to know they don’t trigger them are fine.
I find they go hand-in-hand. For me sensory no-nos can increase my anxiety level, and my anxiety level can impact my sensory comfort zone. If I’m chill then I actually enjoy different foods and am less bothered by things like upholstry. If I’m anxious then I can eat like… three things and a surprise bad-touch can send me over the edge.
Yeah sounds about right. At least for me too.
Absolutely this. Kind of like how germaphobia-related OCD goes hand-in-hand with anxiety. It’s all often bundled together in a big stressful brain mess.
My experience with food aversions is like Joyce’s in that as I got older and got a better handle on my anxiety and neuroses, my diet expanded. But I also developed new random aversions over the years. Food aversions are complex and can be variable.
Becky is right. Joyce is overreacting and doesn’t need to completely abandon faith. Becky is also wrong. Overreacting and abandoning her faith is entirely Joyce’s decision to make.
Joyce’s faith abandoned her.
By definition, you can’t decide to abandon faith. Or to have it. That’s what makes it faith.
I actually have always felt the idea Faith is something you have or have not to be silly. You are what you claim to be. If you say you believe, you do. Doubt and belief are things you choose between.
But I always hated people trying to drive it emotionally down my throat in church. I’m very logic-driven.
Maybe that’s how it works for some people, maybe those on the fence, but others can’t just decide to believe or not believe. To decide to have faith/ignore doubt implies a part of you still does believe it’s *possible*.
I’m an agnostic who desperately wants something to exist beyond this life but no amount of wanting it actually makes my brain stop being skeptical. I can try not to spend much time thinking about the skepticism and doubt but that doesn’t mean it’s not there, it just means I’m suppressing it and distracting myself from it while it still hangs out right under the surface. The second I try to think about the topic again all the doubt makes itself loudly known in my brain.
I would argue that no one is truly faithless.
It’s a question of what you put your faith in. Even the atheist-est of atheists trusts their own perceptions, and most trust scientists and doctors and we all, at some level, persist in the Belief that our political representatives may occasionally act in our interests, rather than their own… and at the root of all, you’ve gotta have faith that your own senses are portraying reality to the lump of meat in your skull semi-accurately.
you’re conflating different meanings of “faith”. there’s working assumptions, and there’s axioms, and boy howdy does it change how you do business based on which you start with.
Trust of that sort is a scientific hypothesis based on statistics. It isn’t remotely the same thing as a decision to believe something is true.
And yet, it’s still founded on faith in the system of statistics. Faith that each and every article and journal and case study was ACTUALLY produced with the necessary rigor. That the author didn’t make use of their clout to publish something patently ridiculous as a joke.
Everyone takes SOMETHING on trust; to do otherwise would drive them insane as they insist on verifying everything themself instead of trusting that the register calculated their grocery bill correctly, the contents of every box they purchased actually contains the correct ingredients in the right proportions, and that those lemons they bought aren’t actually mutant sour oranges.
I mean sure but that’s sort of a different discussion and a different concept of faith. I was referring to “religious faith” or “belief in mythological concepts that cannot be scientifically proven.”
Obviously everyone puts their trust in something to some degree, but what people are able to put their trust in varies and it’s not necessarily something you can just decide to have or not have, but rather the result of your individual brain processes, experiences, etc.
if you’re inherently suspicious of strangers for whatever reason, you can’t just decide “I’m going to trust strangers now.” Even if you try to be more trusting, that doubt and fear will still surface unless new experiences change the way your brain reacts. Same goes for not being able to suddenly decide you can trust that something is real without concrete scientific evidence. (Note, not saying one way of thinking is superior to any other, just saying objectively that some people are more inherently skeptical for one reason or another, whether they want to be or not).
There are also different variations and degrees of it. I classify myself as an agnostic because I accept it is possible there are things about the universe/life we don’t know/understand but accepting something *could* exist is still very different from feeling confident that it does/affirmatively believing it likely does. And religious faith is the latter.
Abandoning faith is not an overreaction. It’s a rational response to discovering your faith’s tenants are factually wrong.
For Becky, she assumes that is abandoning love and peace because God are synomous with that.
Becky had God love her when her people hated her.
Joyce is confused because the Church has never been about love to her.
Joyce discovered her faith was a malicious lie intended to control her, and reacted accordingly. Becky never shared that faith, since she more or less made her own.
That’s a bizarre take given there’s anarchist anti-establishment love all over the New Testament.
It seems Becky read the text and Joyce did too but came to startlingly different reads.
I’ve read the Gospels. Jesus hates rich people, but he also hates divorce.
Joyce’s parents are divorced.
Do we know that for a certainty yet?
I forget if it’s finalized by now, but I’m 98% sure she mentioned it was happening.
Reason I asked is that there is no reference to a divorce – or even a separation – in the Walkypedia entries for either DoA Hank or Carol.
It’s only been mentioned once – in the strip where Joyce discussed all the changes in her life as reasons why she didn’t want glasses – but it was definitely stated.
Walkypedia doesn’t have a ton of editors so I wouldn’t be shocked if Hank and Carol’s pages just haven’t been a priority since neither of them has appeared since the timeskip. (I keep thinking I should help fix that but have approximately none energy.)
Thanks to the tip about glasses, I found it: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/seeing/
Though oddly, Jesus says that marriage isn’t celestial either. It truly is until death do you part.
Except it’s not, because at the well Jesus is very clear about whom the woman is married to, and that’s the dude who is already dead.
Jesus says no one is married in Heaven.
Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven (Matthew 22:29,30).
But that’s not “til death do you part”. In fact, the one that’s out of the marriage bonds is the one that dies. The one that lives is STILL bound by the marriage. Death parted them, and the woman’s still bound to it.
Jesus never says you can’t remarry.
“That’s a bizarre take given there’s anarchist anti-establishment love all over the New Testament.”
It may be in the book, but it really doesn’t seem to be anywhere in the version that Joyce has been taught.
I’m not sure how it is in other countries, but here in the US a lot of Christian denominations seem to teach the exact opposite of what Jesus says in their holy book that they claim to follow.
Being from JesusLand (The Bible Belt), they teach all of the scriptures but then explain that Jesus meant exactly the opposite of what he said. Like for example Joyce has undoubtedly heard, “blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of God.” I.e. Blessed are the Poor, they shall go to Heaven.
Then will have it explained, “Rich people are awesome.”
Neither of their Christianity’s came from reading the text. Joyce got her version from their church, but not really from the Bible, despite their insistence on literalism. Becky took a less literalist approach, at least partly due to her conflicts with her father, absorbing what she saw as the important parts, but again that wasn’t based on any deep reading of the Bible itself. She doesn’t need that. She knows God loves her. He sent a superhero to save her.
Well, love may be in the text, but that not Joyce’s parents and church community enacted it. If she’s not been encouraged to think things through for herself, you can’t really fault her reading skills.
Perhaps but Joyce clearly has done plenty of her own research as we saw when she bothered to find out there’s nothing against lesbians in the Bible.
Joyce’s religion isn’t just about what’s in the Bible. It’s her family and church.
Oops everyone else already said that, lol sorry
Dropping her religion is not an overreaction. Being atheist isn’t some extreme fringe thing. Her behaviour about it has been over-the-top, but honestly so has everyone else’s around her.
She was heavily indoctrinated into what amounts to a cult. Discovering what she personally believes about her world and admitting it? Normal growth and self-realization.
Sometimes people are just atheists. Certain parts of this comments section really need to get okay with that.
Yeah, this. Would expand your last sentence to, “certain parts of the population really need to get okay with that.” But otherwise, 100%.
Religious people interpreting me being open about my personal lack of faith as a targeted insult to their faith, in particular, is one of the banes of my existence.
Oh dear, another EXTREMIST ATHEIST!
Yeah, even arguing that it wasn’t an overreaction because of her circumstances implies that if things hadn’t been so bad it would have been an overreaction, while really it doesn’t even need to be a reaction at all.
Plenty of people become atheists without any great trauma to react to.
I’d agree with you here except it’s been shown before that Becky’s hatred of Atheism stems from her brainwashing.
Where was that shown?
I really do hope we get an honest heart-to-heart about the reasons why Joyce doesn’t believe any more, hopefully with Joyce articulating them a little more clearly than last time, though I’m not sure “while Becky is supposed to be waiting more tables than just Joyce’s” is the best time for one.
On the bright side, we’ve established Glasso as being very understanding (in his own, bizarre way) of Becky’s emotional issues regarding this. So it’s highly unlikely we’ll see him stomping in to threaten to fire Becky for slacking.
Which could make the whole conversation capsize if it did happen, and without that established would be a dangling damocles over their heads.
I hope Willis goes with what Booster said:
“Joyce never actually believed in God. She just wanted to fit in.”
Oh, I didn’t remember that one! I actually don’t remember them having a lot of on-screen time together… do you recall who Booster said that to?
It was during her deconstruction of Joyce. “You only now are admitting that you believe what you always believed.”
It was much better written than that, though. It made me really like Booster.
“You tell yourself you’re afraid of the different person you’re becoming, but only because a change would be easier to swallow than admitting she’s who you’ve been all along.”
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/01-this-bright-millennium/sobstory/
Why the fuck are you referring to Booster with “she”? They said they use they/them.
No need to bring out the language hammer to hit them with it. Just a reminder works, hey, okay?
That’s the third or fourth time they’ve deliberately misgendered Booster on this page alone.
No.
My apologies. I am well aware Booster is nonbinary and respect their pronouns.
Specifically, Booster tells Joyce that it’s easier for herself to say she’s changing than it is for her to admit that this is who she’s been all along.
Which I choose to read less as “Joyce was just always an atheist in the exact definition” and more “Joyce now lacks the thing she had that gave her life meaning, except her life already has meaning because she’s alive and she innately matters.”
Our old familiar dependable webcomic. Always here rain or shine, even on Christmas Day. Such a priceless rarity. Such a wonderful ritual at the end of each day. Thank you, Willis, and Merry Hogswatch, Christmas, Festivus, belated Solstice, and Happy Holidays to you.
Joyce likes ‘sausage’ on ‘pizza’ now! Oh, baby! The Fraudian implications!
(ahem, I mean, Freudian, sorry about that slip there)
Joe might feel a way about sausage now being on Joyce’s menu.
I’m not sure WHAT way he’ll feel, and I’m not sure he’s sure either.
Did Joyce ever object to sausage, or just to sausage *on pizza*? If she didn’t want sausage she could just order cheese pizza.
She likes burgers, I think, and that’s more or less like the sausage on pizza, no?
Maybe she liked the sausage juice on the pizza in addition to eating the sausage separately. I remember I kind of did that with tomatoes on pizza when younger. I also thought pineapple juice itself wasn’t so bad but couldn’t eat the pineapples themselves.
The pizza gets cooked with the sausage on it, then it’s removed before consumption.
Joyce’s culinary rituals are as arbitrary as they are ironclad.
God, the customer service face in panel 2
And here we see, yes, the atheism is in and of itself a problem for Becky and no amount of Joyce softening it would have made it a conflictless discussion. Dina’s different, she’s never known a Dina who was Christian. (And frankly I lowkey suspect Becky half-thinks Dina can be converted or something. Either way she clearly thinks of it as ‘oh Dina’s wrong but whatever’ but they’ll go to heaven and Dina will see she was wrong.) Joyce losing faith means Joyce actively making the Wrong Decision in Becky’s mind when she had previously been properly Jesus-loving. Add in the ‘lost literally all other vestiges of former life’ and Joyce’s faith previously seeming like an unshakable rock she could count on, add in the insecurity over Joyce’s best friendship, and add a dash of ‘your trauma isn’t as bad as MINE and I still believe,’ and you have a cocktail of issues that would make Joyce’s atheism different from Dina’s or Dorothy’s or anyone else’s. It’s not entirely rational, but there it is.
Get your plates of local college pizza place appetizers, ‘cause we have a fight coming.
I firmly believe she gets around the Dina issue by aggressively Not Thinking About It, because we’ve seen Becky think that Dina would be *angry* to go to a perfect heaven just because it’d mean she’s wrong, which seems an awful lot like projection.
Also because Dina doesn’t care much about the faith stuff, as long as it doesn’t take on an anti-science bend.
Also Dina was an atheist when Becky met her, so Becky formed her conception of Dina with her being an atheist
….. when was THIS?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/dvr-2/
“An’ Dina, who’s probably very upset about all of this being real!”
I wouldn’t say that she thinks Dina would be angry about it, but she’s really not giving Dina enough credit. Dina has been shown to be pretty adaptable when it comes to changing her beliefs/knowledge/understanding when confronted with new evidence.
…. jesus, Becky.
“Aggressively Not Thinking About It” is Becky’s go-to coping mechanism. Problem is that tends to turn a simmering pot of personal issues into a pressure cooker, boiling until it violently explodes.
This. Becky is taking Joyce’s deconversion personally.
The irony is, Becky long ago stopped believing the christianity they were raised in. If she’d believed like she was “supposed” to, she’d still be closeted, and guilty and self-hating to boot. Joyce actually believed what they were taught. Becky modified it to suit herself.
Becky believes in the Christianity she was taught: that God is love, God is good, and God is perfect.
Joyce believes in the Christianity she saw practiced: That God is a club that you join and lets you feel superior about.
Except that Becky was also taught that God hated lesbians. That’s not just practice, but teaching.
Their church didn’t teach the right things, but just fail at practicing. They taught the bad stuff too.
Yep.
Yeah that.
Becky only believes in the right Christianity if the “right Christianity” is “everything about it with nothing that has any negative impact or consequence.”
Which is explictly what Jesus taught. A large part of Jesus’ ministry is that dogma is evil and that anything that is not good is not of God. A lot of people here keep saying Becky is making up her interpretation of Christianity but it’s pretty much the actual stuff Jesus said.
“Older than they think” and “Truer to the Text” Tv tropes.
Why do you think the text of Christianity isn’t really that important to anyone getting stomped under it.
You’re both Real Christians to the people Christianity as a cultural institution influences political and societal changes to their detriment.
Or, more accurately: What various authors decades later with their own takes on theology quoted Jesus as saying. Often in contradictory ways.
And of course anything that is not good is not of God, but the key is figuring out what that is.
Regardless of what you think proper Christianity is, it’s not what Becky was taught. Becky was taught the same crap Joyce was taught.
Becky textually thinks Dina is wrong but is willing to hold off on arguing about it, until they’re dead and in heaven and Becky laughs and laughs about how mad Dina is about being wrong, iirc. Like, that’s something close to a thing she said.
But religion is not about feeling superior to others, according to Becky.
I love how many layers there are to this plot development!
You expressed in this comment why I’ve long suspected that Becky would not handle Joyce’s atheism well no matter how she found out.
“Fer Chrissakes”: take the Lord’s name in vain much, Becky?
It seems Joyce and Becky’s sect only considered “Goddammit” to be such.
I find it more amusing to take it literally rather than as a swear. You shouldn’t be an atheist for Christ’s sake, Joyce! Believe in him!
Not that that’s what Becky meant.
Don’t worry, if enough people clap TinkerChrist will come back to life.
Oh hey, same name. Like me…. but Rabid.
Nice.
The Hyde to your Jekyll.
When I was younger I had the idea of only atheists going to Heaven. “I didn’t give you any evidence of an afterlife, and you didn’t believe in one. Well done!”
Nice! That makes me think of Arryn Diaz’s Secular Heaven: https://dresdencodak.com/2005/11/29/secular-heaven/
It’s okay, there’s no T in there, it’s just for the sake of someone named Chris.
“Our Joyce is growing up”
ThorIsSheThough.gif
I don’t know enough about religion to comment on if Becky is digging her heels into it in an attempt to salvage something of her upbringing so instead I’ll just point out that Joyce is taking up a large table just so she could talk to Becky which is a bit uncool.
I think that depends a lot on how busy the place is, and if there are any small tables at all. At smaller pizza places I go to for example, there will often only be only one size of booth.
Also, Galasso chose the table for her. So, y’know…
Joyce asked for Becky’s section specifically. She was clearly unafraid of the vengeful powers Becky has at her disposal, therefore Joyce deserves all the space that can be allotted to her.
This is gonna be gooooooooood.
Except Joyce eating food with stuff now. Yuck. Loss of kindred spirit there.
I dont see this conversation going well, and from that last panel it looks like it’s Becky’s turn to be the unreasonable one
If it gets too loud and emotional and Becky gets reprimanded or worse fired I could see that making things worse between them too with Becky (not completely unreasonably) thinking “Joyce got me fired”
Kinda agree with you on all points here…
Well Gallasso did say he feared Beckies god so maybe he’ll let her away with it.
Besides he’s never been a conventional boss
If Becky gets fired, she can just ignore it and show up and she gets paid anyway, because Galasso will have forgotten about firing her in the first place. That’s how it works in Galasso’s Pizza (and Subs)!
It worked for Sydney.
The fact that we are seeming about to address the Becky half of the problematic conflict is relieving, even though I trusted Willis as a writer generally.
Honestly I know that this is a low probability bet on what might happen, but what a part of me hopes for is for this to still blow up and not go well at all, but this time because of Becky. And then for Dorothy and Sarah to bully Joyce and assume “she wasn’t even trying” like they did the last time.
Because remember, they won’t have any more information now about this topic than they did about the previous conversation when they acted in what (I took as) overly negative manners. It’d make it feel a lot less like Willis self inserted into Sarah in that one comic to say to his past self “you didn’t even try”. It’d create a whole lot of drama in the interpersonal relationships between the characters.
It’d provide a good aesop about forming very strong opinions about things you have no information on that you very easily could have gotten *some* information on. Which I think most of us could agree is a big problem in modern day society.
I wonder how much will they swap roles
Becky’s issue is she sees Joyce turning away because of the ordeals they’ve faced.
She doesn’t realize Joyce never believed in God because it was only about the community to her. The rules, regulations, and relationships.
For Becky, God was a light in the dark.
For Joyce, it was the rope separating the in and out from the club.
For both of them, God was never presented as optional.
They were both indoctrinated into a religious cult. Joyce (lacking faith) interacted with it more like a cult, and Becky (having faith) interacted with it more like a religion.
Talking about it like Joyce decided how she was going to use faith to elevate herself, and not like a literal child was taught to fear eternal torture if she believed wrong or not strongly enough and coped with that the best way she could, is gross and short-sighted.
It wasn’t a choice she made. Until now.
I really wish Booster was here to referee.
She could be their marriage counselor.
Oh wow, yes please. Never thought I’d be anxious for Booster’s psychological one-hit KOs, but you’re right, this whole situation is basically tailor-made for them.
Booster is non-binary and uses They/Them pronouns.
My bad and if I had an edit button, I would correct it.
It’s taking Becky’s accusation at face value which is REALLY bizarre given everything we know about Joyce that Becky specifically does not know, and nowhere on Joyce’s character sheet is the trait “likes to be superior to people.”
Her primary character trait has always been her overwhelming compassion, and the self-righteousness has always been a side effect of the cross section of her neuroses and abusive upbringing.
It is gross that Joyce is getting slapped with Mary’s description.
There’s a bit in the ‘I am right and have things figured out and everyone else will realize I am right and all will be good’ department – mostly seen in the earlier books when she was Christian, and then Atheist Edition now, but it was THERE. (Discussing the idea of Parent Trapping Joe’s parents, her weirdness about Ethan and Joe being Jewish, the whole Ethan being gay thing.) But while Joyce came back to it now that she Finally Knows Everything as an atheist (after being egged on by Liz, and getting defensive from the fight, and probably tying into her idealization of Dorothy a bit as well,) it’s a thing she’s consistently been able to put aside when she realizes she DOESN’T in fact know everything. She’s spent most of the series reassessing as she discovered everything she was taught is wrong, though. As a result, I get her going to the comforting regression of ‘atheism will solve all my uncertainties and now I know everything again’ now that she’s accepting that she is an atheist, and I get people being surprised by the smugness, but it does largely make sense and I suspect she’ll snap out of this part sooner rather than later even if the Becky conflict lasts a while yet.
There is, but I think casting it as “Joyce likes to feel superior” isn’t really the right take. She thought she was right and could be smug about it, but she didn’t want to use that to be better than others, she wanted to spread the word so they could all be in the cool club.
I think that came with the cult stuff. To her, she was evangelizing. To others, she was grandstanding.
Yeah, how I see it is that Joyce didn’t think she was right, she just knew she was right until reality conflicted with the pain she was causing, or could cause, whereupon she adjusted.
Agreed. It’s not really about lording it over other people, because she wants them to make the right (perfectly agreeing with her worldview) choices, but it can easily come off to others that way because, well. She’s saying that her way is the right and proper way and everyone else is wrong. A bit of judgment and superiority is implicit in that, even if Joyce isn’t doing it TO feel like she’s better than everyone else.
It can certainly come off to others that way, but if we’re analyzing her character we should see past it.
And not just trust Becky to be right when she says it in the middle of a fight.
See, I get the impression that she *believed* in God – in the Rich Mullins dream, for example, she concluded that maybe she had never really felt God’s presence, which to me implies that she had long-believed that she was really experiencing it. But, when other beliefs holding that up crumbled, trusting the sources who had told her for example, and trusting the sometimes-really-tenuous arguments as to why that particular brand of Christianity was exactly right, the bottom fell out and her belief in God went with it.
Plus, all of the super-traumatizing things she went through, with religious folk almost always on the wrong side of it, probably didn’t help.
I have an uncle who is devotedly Christian who told me something to the effect that if any *one* thing was wrong, he’d conclude that all of Christianity was wrong – that it all has to be inerrant to hold together, I guess? – and I get the impression that Joyce is coming from a similar place. In that mindset, someone might try to hold on extra hard to all of the little things, because if they don’t, they could lose the whole thing. I personally think it’s a bit unreasonable, regardless of whether the religious ideas had merit – it just seems like it’s putting a lot of stock in you having already heard the *exact* right things, and that whatever translation you’re going with has to be *exactly* right, etc.. I’d guess that Becky took the more liberal Christian approach where you get to paint with somewhat broader strokes, and hold on to the big important ideas, and being ready to give up or reinterpret ideas which run counter to those. …But maybe that’s what you mean when you say Joyce never believed, because Joyce was married to the whole system being true, whereas Becky believed in and held onto specific parts of her religion to form her spirituality?
Honestly this feels a more accurate take on the situation yeah.
She mentioned that earlier. If evolution is true, then everything we’ve been taught is a goddamned lie.
As a Christian who believes in evolution she actually made a good point.
I actually know a lot of atheists who don’t realize that most denominations of Christianity believe in evolution.
I think the difference is that Becky felt it was real because it was, but Joyce convinced herself it was real because it had to be.
Your daily reminder that we have no actual evidence that Joyce “never believed” or “never felt faith.” We have her questioning what it was she felt – which is entirely normal for people deconverting.
The textual stuff is in Joyce’s Rich Mullins dream where she admits she doesn’t think she ever heard God’s voice when praying.
To me, the subtext there is that Joyce’s belief was rooted in being told what was right and wrong, and then she ardently stuck to it. Joyce did not feel God, but she was told by the adults in her life that he was there, and the adults in Joyce’s life were her actual authority figures.
Yeah, Needfuldoer’s ‘convinced herself it was real because it had to be’ just upthread sums up my stance on that. That moment is Joyce(‘s unconscious) exploring and admitting to herself that maybe this was her all along, and it’s reinforced by her reaction to Booster’s psychoanalysis at the hall meeting where they say precisely that and she’s like ‘hahaha weird how THIS ONE ALONE is false, right? Ha.’ Clearly uncomfortable, clearly way more accurate than she wants to admit.
The point I repeatedly try to raise is that we don’t know how Joyce “felt god” at the time. Now, she acknowledges that maybe she didn’t feel it but at the time… who knows.
This is a pet peeve because I watch people in the comments here turn that into “Joyce never had REAL faith,” and that’s just some bullshit No True Scotsman logic.
I’m definitely the CEO of saying “Joyce never had REAL faith” and I stand by it for the reasons I’ve stated.
The only faith Joyce had was in a nearby adult telling her what to do, say, or think, and what they told her is that God was real. That was the foundation of her belief in God rather than anything personal.
Well, that is certainly an opinion. But that’s not how it works for everybody.
I know. I just think it works that way for Joyce.
The sausage pizza is a metaphor
Becky has picked off and discarded all the parts of the pizza she didn’t like. The sausage; the sauce; the crust. All that’s left is the (melted) cheese, sitting on a plate.
But it’s still a sausage pizza. Somehow. Because that’s what she thinks and says it is.
For a lot of Christians, Jesus made a sausage pizza. It was all about love, anarchism, and resistance to authority. It also said you could throw away anything that wasn’t good and cool.
For a lot of churches, they took this and went. “Yes, except do the opposite of this.”
Oo, cool analogy! If you deconstruct the pizza/teachings, is it still the essential thing? Is pizza really pizza without cheese (my spouse says so). Is pizza without sauce really pizza? Baked bread with nothing on it? Ummm. Is Christianity without ___ really Christian? Is religion without __ really religion? Discuss.
To be a pizza, you need 2 of the 4 original ingredient provided one is Roman crust.
Otherwise its 3 and a modifier aka pizza bagel. Substitutions can be made for basil, provided its a green aromatic Italian spice. ( oregano, parsley ) Italian flag ppl
You can’t substitute all the mozzarella for non similar cheeses ( asiago ok, American cheddar not ) and still call it pizza.
That “overreaction” comment is so trivializing and condescending, fuck off
Becky doesn’t understand that it is not about their ordeal.
It is about the fact Joyce never believed.
But… she did?
So, here’s my take on it. Becky is upset because she believes that Joyce is giving up her faith because she thinks she needs to in order to support Becky’s sexuality. Becky has come to the realization that LGBT and religion don’t have to be mutually exclusive and thinks that Joyce is going too far to be supportive. She does not realize that the LGBT stuff is just one straw in a huge bail that broke Joyce’s faith.
Becky is being kind of self-centered (not in the selfish way, but in the way of seeing things from her specific perspective). Joyce is seeing everything around her crumbling at its foundation: Becky’s family, Joyce’s parents, views on gays, the intrinsic goodness of God and how a “good” deity would allow all the recent bad things to happen, seeing moral people who are atheist and immoral Christians.. It’s too much for Joyce’s fragile faith that was built on the word of people she no longer trusts.
Becky hasn’t experienced everything that Joyce has. She’s understandably focused on what happened to her involving her mom and father. Everything on her radar is very personal to her. She didn’t know Mike or have any real connection with the other people who’ve been traumatized. She already saw her father as someone she couldn’t trust, so didn’t have to go through the part of questioning all the things that people had told her about God. She’d already been through that and relied more on the message of her religion rather than on the words of others by this point.
I think once Joyce spills the reason for her questioning of religion, Becky will understand. I don’t think she will agree. But she will be able to talk to Joyce about it more calmly and without the anger and disdain. After all, she doesn’t have anything against atheism itself (her girlfriend is one, after all), only the very sudden shift in Joyce’s demeanor.
Well, this is a totally unsurprising response from Becky. Maybe a situation where the emotional framing is different will help more people realize how awful Becky has been.
Joyce likes sausage, more news at 6
But does she also like clams?
dang whoda thunk
becky has Opinions on joyce being an atheist
youd have to be really smart and cool to see that coming
“But Dina!”
Except one Becky has only ever known as am Athiest and the other she’s explicitly tied their friendship to what she perceived as their shared faith
It’s like people don’t remember back when the timeskip happened she was laying on the religious stuff with Joyce thick enough that most the comments section thought Becky had figured it out and was trying to poke Joyce’s buttons so she’d admit it
Becky set this up so Joyce would eventually spill the beans about it, and is now punishing HER for the consequences.
Not to mention she also still seems to not think very highly of nonbelievers faith. Becky’s faith is flexible. But she still assumed Dina would for some reason be ‘mad’ when/if she finds out that she gets to live in paradise, forever?
I mean, why wouldn’t Dina be mad? If that’s the case, God made a universe with a whole bunch of solvable rules that we could figure out, but made magic real anyway, didn’t actually tell us, expected us to figure us out ourselves, and punish us if we fail? I think Dina would rather just go to hell, than be patronized like that. Even by God.
On the other hand, when Dina finds out she’s wrong about something, she tends to just accept the new information and discard any beliefs that were founded on whatevs was just found to be less supported by new evidence (like the fact that dinosaurs were more likely to hompk than roar).. If she were to die and go to heaven, she’d have empirical evidence that an afterlife exists, and she’d probs adjust her worldview to include that without much issue.. Evidence matters more to her than being her beliefs being immutable “fact” since she recognizes that new evidence could always disprove something she previously believed based on “incomplete but best available at the time” facts..
I think Dina might be a little miffed. I don’t think it ever occurred to her that any kind of religion would be something she might need or even be interested in. She has Scientific Fact. But now she ends up with it anyway.
The afterlife would be factual now though, is the thing.
Dina resents magical thinking because it has no empirical evidence; being in Heaven would be that empirical evidence.
Dina is, in point of fact, a good scientist.
Ever take a look at quantum mechanics?
That’s a reply to Throwatron.
To be honest, I do think she figured it out. She was just being Too Wacky to make a direct confrontation about it. But Becky very often plays goofball while knowing exactly what she’s doing (see: helping keep Ruth and Billie split, sneaking her way into Robin’s account, acting like a horny goof to pretend Joyce wasn’t being disparaging towards their religious upbringing.)
And in this most recent case, pretending the sausage comment is about atheism while knowing exactly what Joyce meant.
Like, in one of the very first comics, Becky explicitly told Joyce, “Never change.” Welp, there she went and changed.
She did later clarify that she was happy Joyce was changing
When all of Joyce’s changes were convenient for Becky specifically
fair’s fair.
Wow what a cool avatar of a smart person you have there
I should make an NFT of it
ok but what if i make an NFT of your butt??? what then
Then finally there will be an NFT with actual worth.
someone will literally (figuratively) own your butt (on the blockchain)!!!
and you’re acting like nbd. unbelievable
If someone spends $30,000 to own a receipt of a jpeg of my butt, I dunno who’s got more over who there.
oh no no, not a jpeg. your actual butt. it’s the next big bullshit investment, instead of buying a placeholder to a piece of digital art, you buy a title that stands in for the concept of Spencer’s butt.
i mean your point stands, though
Opinions are like butts, everybody has at least one.
I never sausauge conflict ! Neither of them is going to come out the weiner here!
Igh conflict is the wurst!
Nice and tasty joke involving weiners!
Speaking of which, what do you like on yours?
Course mustard and horseradish
Well, good to know I was right on the money on this being the main reason Becky didn’t accept Joyce’s apology. It’s also why she threw out a pretty baseless accusation about Joyce and being ‘superior’
I would bet dollars to doughnuts that based on earlier comments, she doesn’t think Joyce is ‘traumatized’ enough to claim that she no longer believes. But the thing is, Becky has *never* truly believed their church teachings. Joyce did, and was indoctrinated into doing so by her family.
I think part of the reason she accused Joyce of using her ‘new’ beliefs to act superior, is because it’s actually something Becky does more. Not necessarily religious beliefs, cuz as we saw Becky believed her ‘own’ version of it. But a pretty consistent theme of her character has been, well, that. Not loudly like Joyce has been doing, but in the subtleties. She believes her faith makes her better than other people.
Like yeah, we see that she’s ‘fine’ with Dina, but it’s because, I image, she doesn’t think about it. Like her first assumption about if Dina were to find out that Becky’s beliefs are correct and she gets to live in paradise… would be anger? Which doesn’t make much sense, but because it’s becky being a goof, we gloss over it.
Anyway, my 2 cents on that. Can’t wait to see what other people think, especially some who thought that this somehow wasn’t about Becky having an issue with Joyce losing faith.
It would be pretty interesting that all the bad accusations they seemed to be hurling were more or less at each other. Maybe Becky doesn’t think Joyce think she was religious just for the purpose of acting superior really. That was one thing I don’t get why people act Becky was 100 on or as taking as gospel.
Maybe Becky subconsciously thinks she herself acts that way herself (and to be fair she sometimes does, Becky absolutely looks down her nose at atheism). Maybe Becky even has some slight fears with the pic and mix religion she’s made for herself even if a lot of people do that including the church they were raised in.
And Joyce really views herself as an idiot as others have mentioned. (And some of the stuff she believed was stupid and did awful things because of it but it doesn’t mean she was an idiot just.. brainwashed and barely an adult.)
Oh, joyce absolutely does. That was 100% what I took away from her rant fest with Liz- most people in college has treated her religion as joke or a weird quirk about her since the start of the comic. She thinks she’s stupid and was more directing her vitriol at her past self. Becky happened to overhear it and when Joyce wouldn’t rescind her atheism Becky went for the throat with insults.
THIS! THIS RIGHT HERE.
She like sausage on pizza now? WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO JOYCE????
Becky and Claire from QC should never be allowed to work food service in the same time and place. The resulting sass would be the destruction of us all.
ETA: As a redhead I know what my kind are capable of.
Wait so it IS the Atheist thing she’s mad about? Not Joyce’s condescending attitude?
Shoot I don’t think Becky is self aware enough to know what she is mad about she’s just mad at Joyce for changing.
I think it is pretty clear that this is the case. Becky sees religion as default because that’s what she has always been taught.
She can be mad about multiple things.
I think both. Well, I don’t think it’s the athiest thing in particular as much as “how could you take away one of the few things I could still depend on?” which translates into the athiest thing.
It’s sort of spreading out, like a spill. Like when Joyce went from zero to saying things like “take that, Becky!” because now everything is justified. They’re working from similar assumptions
we waz all rong )=
spencr waz rite D=
Long time no see milu!
Wonder who’s gonna make that avatar of yours into a bootleg T-shirt….
heh yeh =)
this section has felt a bit too intense for me lately, i still read most comments most days, but deciding not to comment has been soothing actually if slightly frustrating now and then. eh, at some point i’ll probably feel willing and able to post again but lately i was like… “hmmmm nah”
I TOTALLY get it!
And even if you still feel like posting SOMETHING, just do what I do and fool around with space and tasty jokes!
meh =P
Merry Christmas or solar rebirth what-have-you milu!
myself i observe a satanist ritual known as “Merry DEATH to 2021 aaaahahahaha!!!”. as is tradition i watch 1 horror movie every night for a week. it’s been delightful, i’m very pleased with myself.
and a merry what-have-you to you too <3
What a coincidence! I’ve been doing something similar very holiday season!
What are you gonna see next?
Okay, apologies if someone’s already said this, but there’s a lot of replies here.
1) Becky, Joyce is allowed to be an atheist.
2) Joyce, Becky would probably be more accepting if you didn’t think being an atheist also means being a massive jerk. Dorothy isn’t like this, so why do you feel you have to be?
3) Joyce, if weird food things make you comfortable, don’t feel you have to give them up because “everything’s changed now”.
4) Alt-text, growing up is highly over-rated and I advocate resisting it as much as possible.
Damn it Becky, there’s nothing wrong with Joyce being an atheist. It’s not over-reacting to become one, especially considering what she’s been through in the past few months.
Yes there is, because in Becky-land she’s not supposed to be one.
Occasionally someone will tell me I never really believed in Christianity because I ended up atheist. But that’s wrong; I did believe, but I was conflicted about it. Like Thomas in the bible.
The same is probably true for Joyce, but she was never allowed to entertain any thoughts of doubt. So there’s something of a dam bursting when she finally looks at them squarely. In this one respect, Becky’s traumatic childhood gave her permission to find a balance before the shit actually hit the fan.
Also occasionally someone will tell me I’m not really an atheist; that I secretly believe and just need to admit it. That’s super-condescending and annoying, and Christians do it to atheists all the time.
It bothers me when Christians say some people aren’t real Christians, because it implies Christianity can’t be wrong and True Christians™ are a small, select group.
TL:DR, second-guessing people on their beliefs is not much better than predicting the future with tea leaves. If someone says they’re a Christian, or an atheist, that’s a good bet.
Agreed, you put your finger on what irritates me about the idea that Joyce’s faith was never real.
The idea that person who’s now an atheist “never believed” somehow implies that they “did it wrong”. As if a Real Christian can’t change their mind… it’s like retroactively taking away their club card to Win, because a Real Christian wouldn’t have doubts.
It’s not that Joyce being an atheist means she was never a Christian, it’s that she was raised to believe an objective doctrine that was incompatible with what she felt was right or that she could engage in.
Also she admitted (in a dream) that she never heard God’s voice when she prayed, because Joyce’s real God was “the nearest authority figure.”
its a whole new world, Joyce…
Next she’ll be questioning the dogma of “no pineapple on pizza”.
This is going to go well…
I forsee an *actual* Becky-Dorothy fight on the horizon.
So, has Becky ever broken another of the ten commandments, besides taking the Lord’s name in vain, or was she taught that Old Testament rules no longer apply since the creation of the New Testament?
Yup. She didn’t honor her father. Duh. Don’t see why it is relaxant.
Depending on how you view her use of campaign funds, or breaking into her childhood home to get her documents, she might also have broken the “don’t steal” one.
baby steps, i guess…
I hope these two make up. They were an awesome duo before.
I think it’ll be painful for a while but they’ll end up in a healthier place then they were before everything blew up
Were they? Joyce and Dorothy, and Becky and Dina are becoming fair better pairs. Becky called Joyce her “bestie in Christ.” Perhaps religion really is what tied them together, like trauma-bonding.