Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
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June 1, 2026

Ride’s due

by David M Willis on December 1, 2021 at 12:01 am
  • 02 – I'll Leave You A Phantom
└ Tags: dina, joe, liz

Discussion (216) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    December 1, 2021 at 12:05 am | #

    haha, we were talking with the folks about denial isn’t just a river in Africa

    Rando: “IT’S NOT IN AFRICA”

    Us: “lol whut, learn your geography”

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:12 am | #

      I’ve heard people claim Egypt isn’t in Africa and like…I’m no Geography major but I’m like….not sure how that’s possible. It’s still part of that continent! Sure it’s bordering Asia but like…Panama borders South America but it’s still North America I thought. (Ok some people call it Central America but I think that’s just semantics!)
      (OK I just looked up Panama because up til this moment I legit thought Mexico bordered Columbia because I’m an uncultured moron so maybe my opinion on Geography isn’t the best).

      • Rose by Any Other Name
        Rose by Any Other Name
        December 1, 2021 at 12:16 am | #

        It’s also a stupid argument since the Nile river goes far beyond Egypt. It’s a really, really long river.

        • a/snow/mous/e
          a/snow/mous/e
          December 1, 2021 at 9:50 am | #

          It’s one of the 1.618 longest rivers in the world!

      • The Wellerman
        The Wellerman
        December 1, 2021 at 12:16 am | #

        Moron? Debatable.

        Uncultured? From the looks of your art, definitely not! 😜

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          December 1, 2021 at 12:20 am | #

          Oh I’m absolutely uncultured 😛 I don’t know shit about fuck except cartoons and comics. My mind is like a wikipedia article of irrelevant knowledge. I’m just a Georgia hick with a tablet.

          • Clif
            Clif
            December 1, 2021 at 12:31 am | #

            All knowledge is contained in cartoons and comics.

            • milu
              milu
              December 1, 2021 at 8:44 am | #

              non-cartoon/comics data is noise and is to be disregarded.

          • The Wellerman
            The Wellerman
            December 1, 2021 at 12:32 am | #

            Oh trust me bruh, you’re cultured. 😉

      • Viktoria
        Viktoria
        December 1, 2021 at 12:35 am | #

        It’s tied to racism, basically. Anthropologically, race exists purely in a cultural context. White means something different in the US than it does in Europe, Russians/Arabic people/Indians are all Asian but not on a lot of census forms, etc.
        Which means that when talking about ancient Egypt, there are various reasonable scholars who say things like “ancient Egyptians weren’t black”, by which they mean “it was 5,000 years ago, races were different then”, but which racists today co-opt to say that “all great civilizations were made by white people, nope, ancient egypt wasn’t black, here’s an out-of-context quote from a respected professor saying that”.
        That argument tends to fall apart quickly because it’s nonsense, but now people have made “Ancient egyptians weren’t african” part of their identity, so they start denying the geography instead. This argument is ALSO nonsense, but it’s such confusing nonsense that it tends to last longer. And then other people run into the debate without any of that context, get confused, and start parroting parts of it.
        Isn’t a worldwide method of communicating and sharing information just a great boon to everyone?

        • Thag Simmons
          Thag Simmons
          December 1, 2021 at 12:44 am | #

          Also, what we would define as Ancient Egypt was around for like 30 centuries, which is a very long time, and it changed a lot over that span of time.

          • Rabid Rabbit
            Rabid Rabbit
            December 1, 2021 at 1:38 am | #

            And for several of those centuries, it was definitely ruled by very definitely black people.

            • Thag Simmons
              Thag Simmons
              December 1, 2021 at 2:24 am | #

              Yeah, “Cleopatra would be considered white” and “there were Pharoahs who would be considered black” are not actually contradictions!

        • davidbreslin101
          davidbreslin101
          December 1, 2021 at 8:01 am | #

          National Geographic once did an issue called “The Black Pharaohs,” about a period when Egypt and its southern neighbour, Kush, were united under Kushite rulers. Which was pretty interesting, but as several of the letters pointed out next issue, there really wasn’t a racial dividing line between Egypt and Kush back then.

      • someone
        someone
        December 1, 2021 at 5:36 am | #

        Well in Antiquity, “Africa” used to refer to the land “south of the Mediterranean, and west of Egypt”. So Egypt wasn’t in Africa, just like Spain is not in Portugal. Carthage was in Africa, though.

        Though the notions of geography changed with time. They didn’t have satellite maps of the world, and the very notion of continent would take a while to really crystallize.

        • davidbreslin101
          davidbreslin101
          December 1, 2021 at 8:12 am | #

          IIRC, the Greeks didn’t consider themselves part of “Europe”, which was their name for the barabarian lands immediately to the north of them.

          • milu
            milu
            December 1, 2021 at 9:00 am | #

            Greeks don’t consider themselves part of Europe today, at least in the cultural sense. They will routinely say things such as “I went to Europe on holiday”. (really, they mean Western Europe.)

            I’m not sure where your notion comes from though? per Wikipedia, in its earliest geographical sense “Europe” was north of the Mediterranean and west of the Aegean, so definitely included Greece.

            • thejeff
              thejeff
              December 1, 2021 at 1:30 pm | #

              Apparently the oldest known reference to “Europe” at least as a geographical term is in the Homeric Hymn to Apollo, which refers to Europe, Peloponnesus and the islands – implying that the Peloponnesus (Greece) isn’t part of Europe.

              • milu
                milu
                December 1, 2021 at 1:49 pm | #

                oh ok! thanks.

              • Agemegos
                Agemegos
                December 1, 2021 at 5:42 pm | #

                The Pelopennese is far from being all of Greece, though. It’s the peninsula south of Corinth. Athens isn’t in the Pelopennese. Neither is Thebes. “Europa” in that hymn means what we now call “mainland Greece”.

                • thejeff
                  thejeff
                  December 1, 2021 at 8:01 pm | #

                  Ah. Nice catch. I should have realized that.

                • milu
                  milu
                  December 1, 2021 at 10:17 pm | #

                  Ooh a twist! That makes sense, Pelopponisos is just barely not an island. In fact the “nissos” part means island.

        • Mopey
          Mopey
          December 1, 2021 at 9:14 am | #

          Hair splitting: That definition was for inhabitants, not land. The “Afri” were originally all the peoples living “In the northern ‘Libyan’ continent and west of the Nile”, but in practice it included everyone living on the continent before it really became a place name.

          In late antiquity there were provinces that were called Africa or “The African ” but those were smaller areas that had much better defined borders.

          • Agemegos
            Agemegos
            December 1, 2021 at 5:50 pm | #

            For example, Herodotus used “Libya” for what we call “Africa” now, except that he considered the Nile to be the boundary between Libya and Asia. I think he was only vaguely aware of the Red Sea.

            • someone
              someone
              December 2, 2021 at 10:06 am | #

              It’s pretty amusing that Africa used to be roughly the area of modern Libya, and Libya used to be the African continent. There was a big nomenclature switcheroo there.

      • Felian
        Felian
        December 7, 2021 at 8:46 am | #

        i think that many people in western countries seem to not remember that
        a) India is in Asia
        b) Egypt is in Africa
        because the stereotypes we have for these countries differ from the stereotypes we have for the mashed up rest of each of these continents…

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      December 1, 2021 at 12:12 am | #

      There is to my knowledge, no actual African river called ‘Denial’, so they aren’t wrong.

      • DarkoNeko
        DarkoNeko
        December 1, 2021 at 12:18 am | #

        I really fail to see how “the nile” could possibly ever be pronounced llike “denial”

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          December 1, 2021 at 12:22 am | #

          There’s a lot of accents and dialects (and probably impediments) that tend to pronounce “th” as “d”. I have met many such people.

        • Rose by Any Other Name
          Rose by Any Other Name
          December 1, 2021 at 12:31 am | #

          Some people pronounce “the” as “da” (pronounced like duh).
          Many people also pronounce the ‘de’ in denial as ‘da’ (same as above)

        • Thag Simmons
          Thag Simmons
          December 1, 2021 at 12:32 am | #

          Yeah so did my parents. Still not entirely sure I’m pronouncing it right.

        • OBBWG
          OBBWG
          December 1, 2021 at 12:43 am | #

          Da Nile? Dat dere is a fine example uh da Mawaukee German accent, aina?

          • RedCat
            RedCat
            December 1, 2021 at 5:05 am | #

            In Germany it would just be Nil.

            • khn0
              khn0
              December 1, 2021 at 8:54 am | #

              Well, it’s as they said: cultural germans aren’t germans in germany.
              Also we better don’t start with what is german or dialectal, orr whatev, bc it becomes scary, to be frank or even frankish…

        • Edwin I Callahan
          Edwin I Callahan
          December 1, 2021 at 6:56 am | #

          You haven’t spent a lot of time in Chicago.

    • BarerMender
      BarerMender
      December 1, 2021 at 12:47 am | #

      New rule: Retire the “river in Africa” joke. It wasn’t funny when it was new.

      • Reltzik
        Reltzik
        December 1, 2021 at 2:54 am | #

        Yup. Stick it on the same interior pathway as Dina.

        • Reltzik
          Reltzik
          December 1, 2021 at 2:57 am | #

          … maybe that’s too subtle. Stick it on the same small ocean-bound landmass as Dina?

          • King Daniel
            King Daniel
            December 1, 2021 at 4:25 am | #

            That joke was too insular for most people, I’ll wager.

            • milu
              milu
              December 1, 2021 at 9:10 am | #

              …yeah i didn’t get it.

              will i contribute a geography pun regardless? shore.

              • Reltzik
                Reltzik
                December 1, 2021 at 9:29 am | #

                (Dina-aisle and Dina-isle.)

                • milu
                  milu
                  December 1, 2021 at 10:21 am | #

                  ooooh well done. i hadn’t seen it atoll

            • Reltzik
              Reltzik
              December 1, 2021 at 9:28 am | #

              And yet I penned it anyway.

        • Thag Simmons
          Thag Simmons
          December 1, 2021 at 1:37 pm | #

          Is this a western interior seaway joke?

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        December 1, 2021 at 6:58 am | #

        It’s a good thing we can ignore that joke, dee amazon is not just a river in south america after all.

        • milu
          milu
          December 1, 2021 at 1:55 pm | #

          I don’t have the faintest idea what you’re talking about, of course dee Amazon is a river in South America and nothing else, especially not a scary powerful global megaretailer with appalling labour practices,

  2. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    December 1, 2021 at 12:05 am | #

    Technically nothing happened so this isn’t denial.

    • milu
      milu
      December 1, 2021 at 3:30 am | #

      And “technically not denial” doesn’t, technically, count as denial

    • Decidedly Orthogonal
      Decidedly Orthogonal
      December 1, 2021 at 7:02 am | #

      Aside from Liz propositioning Joe, both of them being alone in Joe’s room, and (this may be important later) Danny being booted, sleeping awfully and not knowing “nothing” happened. Me thinks the dank dragon of drama is restless in its sleep.

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        December 1, 2021 at 7:09 am | #

        This is probably about where Danny re-enters, so all he’ll know is he saw Liz with Joe at night, Liz with Joe (Liz all smiles) at breakfast, and Joe has no alibi.

  3. Regalli
    Regalli
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    … Well, good news, awkwardness prevented.

    Bad news: Liz is clearly repressing everything.

    Worse news: If she and Dina get into the Atheist Hootenanny I dearly want to occur here, she will miss her ride.

    • Sirksome
      Sirksome
      December 1, 2021 at 12:11 am | #

      Y’know I’m actually starting to think there never was a ride. Let them fight.

      • Regalli
        Regalli
        December 1, 2021 at 12:27 am | #

        Eh, she is eventually getting back to her own campus. Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a semi-regular bus service.

        I’m not even sure they’d fight, I think Liz would be like ‘Teach me your Smart Science Atheism Ways’ and Dina would be like ‘excellent, another pupil’ and it only becomes a problem once Becky inevitably shows up.

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 12:38 am | #

          My senses are picking up on the Chaos Energy already.

          Or that could just be my craving for another chili dog.

          Either way is a win win.

        • Psychie
          Psychie
          December 1, 2021 at 2:30 am | #

          I just checked, and there does not appear to be a shuttle from IU to Ball State, one *could* take a shuttle to Indy and then another shuttle to Muncie, but there doesn’t appear to be a direct line. Also, the bus tickets are probably $20-50, and IIRC the Bloomington bus station is cash only for the shuttle lines (I could be remembering wrong, their card reader might have just been busted at the time, but they definitely made me pay in cash that one time). Granted, if you acquire the ticket online via Greyhound you can pay electronically, but for whatever reason I don’t see her thinking of doing that, like I fully expect she would go to the bus station, try to arrange a ticket on a shuttle, and then panic because she doesn’t carry that much cash on her.

      • Rabid Rabbit
        Rabid Rabbit
        December 1, 2021 at 1:39 am | #

        Joe was going to be the ride, but Liz canceled it.

  4. ThunderNight
    ThunderNight
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    wait I thought it only happened earlier today

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:14 am | #

      It’s tommorow. So like if it was earlier today it was like…1am.

      I am of the personal opinion that doesn’t start until I go to sleep and subsequently wake up.

      • Clif
        Clif
        December 1, 2021 at 12:34 am | #

        i concur. Except on those rare days when I do not sleep.

        Which come to think of it, has not happened since I was a graduate student.

        • Yotomoe
          Yotomoe
          December 1, 2021 at 12:39 am | #

          I’ve done it a couple times since then but not as consistently and I usually still napped.

        • DinaJoyce
          DinaJoyce
          December 1, 2021 at 2:18 am | #

          My rule has always been that I will acknowledge that a new day has started only after the sun comes up. If I don’t manage to go to bed until after sunrise I have to acknowledge that I slept “this morning” and not “last night.” Until sunrise the day remains “today” regardless of what the clock and calendar say. One year in grad school I had one of those crazy housemates who would wake up at 5am. That’s the only time this system caused any confusion, but most of the time I was going to bed as he woke up and we were both solidly half asleep so we would just kinda grunt “g’morning” and “g’night” respectively as he walked to the kitchen and I to my bedroom. Then we usually didnt see each other again until after class and could agree what “today” meant at that point.

      • Reltzik
        Reltzik
        December 1, 2021 at 3:09 am | #

        So, I’ll have twice as many days in my life if I switch to a diurnal schedule?

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        December 1, 2021 at 7:14 am | #

        Pretty sure it is today. It’s _always_ today. Even when it’s tomorrow, it’ll be today.

      • tbf
        tbf
        December 1, 2021 at 9:10 am | #

        New chapters start at midnight.

        • Decidedly Orthogonal
          Decidedly Orthogonal
          December 1, 2021 at 1:00 pm | #

          On days ending in ‘y’.

  5. AeromechanicalAce
    AeromechanicalAce
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    Yikes, THAT’S a healthy coping mechanism…/s

  6. Thag Simmons
    Thag Simmons
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    I don’t know why the repetition in the final panel is so funny to me, but it very much is.

  7. Nono
    Nono
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    I like the extra grip Dina has on Joe’s shirt for better balance during the handshake.

  8. The Wellerman
    The Wellerman
    December 1, 2021 at 12:06 am | #

    “The cave”?

    I don’t get it.

    • Jeff K!
      Jeff K!
      December 1, 2021 at 12:13 am | #

      In Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, Yoda says this line while riding in Luke Skywalker’s backpack.

      • The Wellerman
        The Wellerman
        December 1, 2021 at 1:34 am | #

        Are you sure that wasn’t another episode?

        ’cause this clip from The Empire Strikes Back clearly shows Yoda on a tree, not on Luke.

        • Needfuldoer
          Needfuldoer
          December 1, 2021 at 2:48 am | #

          It was definitely Empire, the Yoda-backpack part was just earlier.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=infZSKB5L9I

          • The Wellerman
            The Wellerman
            December 1, 2021 at 3:53 am | #

            Man I haven’t seen Star Wars in a long time.

            That Dina / Yoda correspondence though 😲

    • Doctor_Who
      Doctor_Who
      December 1, 2021 at 12:14 am | #

      Star Wars reference. Dina is riding Joe (that sounds so wrong) like Yoda.

    • Sporky
      Sporky
      December 1, 2021 at 12:16 am | #

      Star Wars reference, Yoda says it to Luke in The Empire Strikes Back after he… fails in the cave

    • Delicious Taffy
      Delicious Taffy
      December 1, 2021 at 12:24 am | #

      It might be a Star War

  9. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    December 1, 2021 at 12:08 am | #

    Ah jeez this is embarassing. And here I am thinking that it happened. Well isn’t there egg on my face. I’m so gullible. I really got tricked into thinking it happened. Well I’ll be. Happy Trails, Liz.

  10. Kravis
    Kravis
    December 1, 2021 at 12:08 am | #

    “Girl who is on top of me, meet girl who was previously on top of me.”

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:15 am | #

      Shockingly, both experiences were uniquely uncomfortable.

  11. Victor Riley
    Victor Riley
    December 1, 2021 at 12:08 am | #

    Yesterday? I thought it just happened a few hours ago for them.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:16 am | #

      New storyline new day. It’s tommorow. Yesterday/Last Night was when they (nearly) slept together.

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        December 1, 2021 at 7:16 am | #

        I’m looking around, and I’m pretty sure it’s today.

        • Fist_of_Life
          Fist_of_Life
          December 1, 2021 at 7:31 am | #

          have you checked a newspaper yet. or perhaps the date on your phone/computer since newspapers are all but obsolete.

          • Decidedly Orthogonal
            Decidedly Orthogonal
            December 1, 2021 at 1:01 pm | #

            According to my sundial it’s definitely today.

  12. Nathan
    Nathan
    December 1, 2021 at 12:08 am | #

    Honestly, significantly better than what I expected, which was Liz announcing to everyone that she TOTALLY HAD SEX WITH JOE ALL NIGHT YOU GUYS! WEED SEX!

    Though hey! I suppose there’s still time.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:17 am | #

      I wonder if weed sex would be any fun. I doubt it, that drug seems to sorta conflict with the activity, but then again I’ve neither smoked weed or had sex so there’s no way to know.

      • The Wellerman
        The Wellerman
        December 1, 2021 at 12:21 am | #

        Well I’ve never had sex, I can tell you from personal experience that on cannabis, orgasms feel ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! 🤩

        • Clif
          Clif
          December 1, 2021 at 12:39 am | #

          Well, yes, but they do anyway.
          Unless you’re wired different and they don’t.

          • The Wellerman
            The Wellerman
            December 1, 2021 at 12:50 am | #

            Well, I guess they always feel really good in general, but having them on cannabis just takes it to a whole other level that I can’t even begin to describe!

            I heard that orgasms feel amazing in lucid dreams too. If only the skill ceiling on those wasn’t so high. 😐

          • Azhrei Vep
            Azhrei Vep
            December 1, 2021 at 8:32 am | #

            Eh, I would describe them as “Decently fine” under normal circumstances, personally. Can’t speak to how they feel when under the influence of any sort of intoxicants, since I don’t partake, though.

      • BarerMender
        BarerMender
        December 1, 2021 at 12:56 am | #

        Weed sex is good.

        • BarerMender
          BarerMender
          December 1, 2021 at 7:31 am | #

          Unfortunately, I can’t smoke weed. One toke is agony pain for a minute or more.

          • brionl
            brionl
            December 1, 2021 at 1:32 pm | #

            Nobody should smoke weed. Sucking burning fumes of any kind into your lungs is really horribad for them.
            If you want to get high, edibles are a much better route.

      • Wereg
        Wereg
        December 1, 2021 at 7:18 pm | #

        It’s pretty good; definitely a unique experience compared to sober sex. Like all kinds of sex while under the influence, in order to be a good time it requires a good deal of trust, communication, and both prior and in the moment consent.

        If any of the above is missing, then it can be a VERY bad time. If all of the above are present AND neither of you are too stoned, then it’s like having everything bumped up to 11 with a bit of spacing out mixed in. Pretty fun.

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 7:34 pm | #

          Seriously though 11 is low-balling it.

          For me the orgasms are bumped up to at least level 25.

          Or like 10× whatever level you can put on this:

          https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/deadly-petty-blow

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      December 1, 2021 at 2:44 am | #

      Yeah, that’s what I was bracing for too.

  13. AbacusWizard
    AbacusWizard
    December 1, 2021 at 12:13 am | #

    This might just be because I’m a theory-and-history-of-comics nerd but I love love love the pacing and structure of that final panel.

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      December 1, 2021 at 12:15 am | #

      Repetition is funny, I don’t know why.

      • Yotomoe
        Yotomoe
        December 1, 2021 at 12:17 am | #

        Rule of 3 baby.

    • milu
      milu
      December 1, 2021 at 9:19 am | #

      ooh, what theory-and-history-of-comics is there to the last panel?

  14. DarkoNeko
    DarkoNeko
    December 1, 2021 at 12:14 am | #

    the crazy eyes in the 3rd panel are scary

    • Alan in DC
      Alan in DC
      December 1, 2021 at 9:48 am | #

      Agreed. She looks like she’s been getting email from Charles Manson.

  15. DarkoNeko
    DarkoNeko
    December 1, 2021 at 12:16 am | #

    Also Dina’s really treating Joe as a tree (or a giant plushie) uh

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      December 1, 2021 at 12:18 am | #

      That’s convenient because he’s known for having wood.

      • DarkoNeko
        DarkoNeko
        December 1, 2021 at 12:19 am | #

        booo 😀

      • The Wellerman
        The Wellerman
        December 1, 2021 at 12:24 am | #

        *comedy drum cymbal*

        😆

      • Reltzik
        Reltzik
        December 1, 2021 at 3:14 am | #

        But his last sexual encounter got trunkated.

        • milu
          milu
          December 1, 2021 at 9:29 am | #

          It made it clear his intimacy issues are deeply rooted.

          • Yotomoe
            Yotomoe
            December 1, 2021 at 10:27 am | #

            I guess you can say Liz was all Bark and no Bite.

            • Reltzik
              Reltzik
              December 1, 2021 at 12:06 pm | #

              Still, she had every right to choose to leaf.

      • misanthropope
        misanthropope
        December 1, 2021 at 10:16 am | #

        summon RIVAL PR0NLORD

        “oglaf.com/stamen”

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      December 1, 2021 at 12:23 am | #

      It’s at least accurate dinosaur behavior, at least to my experience with living ones.

    • milu
      milu
      December 1, 2021 at 9:31 am | #

      Joe is known to be kind of a big sexy no-feelings panda.
      …he eats shoots and leaves

  16. DailyBrad
    DailyBrad
    December 1, 2021 at 12:17 am | #

    I mean, I suppose it didn’t. That’s the beauty of stopping when you want to/need to stop. No points awarded for partial completion.

  17. ADLegend21
    ADLegend21
    December 1, 2021 at 12:18 am | #

    3 Dina’s in one panel. love it.

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 12:27 am | #

      Huh.

      Why does Dina’s hat lack shading in that last panel though?

      • Thag Simmons
        Thag Simmons
        December 1, 2021 at 12:36 am | #

        Ah shit, her hat’s a ghost now.

      • OBBWG
        OBBWG
        December 1, 2021 at 12:50 am | #

        She moved her head so Joe is not casting a shadow on her hat. Her ear is still shadowed.

        …or her hat’s a ghost now.

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 12:59 am | #

          That first one doesn’t even make any physical sense. The light in this scene is coming from the top right, and Dina’s hat is the first object that it touches, so it would actually be casting a shadow on Joe.

          • OBBWG
            OBBWG
            December 1, 2021 at 1:25 am | #

            You’re right. Good eye. Maybe the original shadow was because her head was tilted more back and straight and in the last panel she tilts her head forward and down so the light hits the entire hat.

            …or her hat is definitely a ghost now.

        • Thag Simmons
          Thag Simmons
          December 1, 2021 at 1:08 am | #

          Her hat is definitely a ghost now.

  18. Derek
    Derek
    December 1, 2021 at 12:18 am | #

    Not related to today’s strip but related to the current storyline: what would happen if Joyce read the Fountainhead and became an Ayn Rand flavour of insufferable atheist?
    I don’t think it would be downfall of her character because lots of people (myself included) had a “libertarians are smart” phase that we grew out of the more we learned/reached maturity.
    Heck, I’d like to know if Joyce has read anything by Richard Dawkins or is she not ready for THAT plunge?

    • DarkoNeko
      DarkoNeko
      December 1, 2021 at 12:20 am | #

      the only thing she’s reading is batman fanfictions

    • C.T. Phipps
      C.T. Phipps
      December 1, 2021 at 12:36 am | #

      Even if I didn’t believe in religion, I grew up rich and know that the idea they all are hardworking job creators is bullshit.

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      December 1, 2021 at 12:53 am | #

      Hard to say. Namely, I honestly can’t tell how much of Joyce’s core “people are fundamentally good” and “we should help other people as best we can” beliefs have actually shifted. (And part of why I can’t tell is because I want them to not have shifted.)

      • Thag Simmons
        Thag Simmons
        December 1, 2021 at 1:09 am | #

        I don’t think it’s shifted so far to fall into libertarianism.

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 1:25 am | #

          Uhh… do “libertarians” actually believe the reverse of that by definition?

          • Thag Simmons
            Thag Simmons
            December 1, 2021 at 2:26 am | #

            The Randian objectivists do, and I somewhat inaccurately conflated them with Libertarianism as a whole (they aren’t synonymous but there’s a lot of overlap)

            • The Wellerman
              The Wellerman
              December 1, 2021 at 2:56 am | #

              Yeah please don’t do that. Radian Objectivists are a frickin CULT, and belief in limited government and “we should help people as best we can” are NOT mutually exclusive.

              Same goes for “no victim, no crime”.

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 1:03 am | #

      AYN RAND!?!?

      Here’s what would happen to Joyce.

      • Azhrei Vep
        Azhrei Vep
        December 1, 2021 at 8:35 am | #

        I have no thing to add to the actual topic of this conversation, I just want to think The Wellerman for reminding me that strip happened. Those last panels are just the best.

  19. StClair
    StClair
    December 1, 2021 at 12:19 am | #

    That’s a … very Joyce reaction. 😐

  20. DailyBrad
    DailyBrad
    December 1, 2021 at 12:19 am | #

    WHO RUNS BARTERTOWN

    • Judas Peckerwood
      Judas Peckerwood
      December 1, 2021 at 1:19 am | #

      Ha! My exact reaction.

  21. Delicious Taffy
    Delicious Taffy
    December 1, 2021 at 12:21 am | #

    I don’t understand your “cave” reference. Is it related to that movie Time Trap? That had a cave in it.

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 12:25 am | #

      Check above.

      It’s apparently a Star Wars reference.

      Here Dina is supposed to be Yoda, and Joe is supposed to be Luke Skywalker. I think.

      • Jamie
        Jamie
        December 1, 2021 at 1:05 am | #

        The quote can be found in this clip. The cave scene is here. There’s a nice StackExchange explanation here.

  22. Sol
    Sol
    December 1, 2021 at 12:34 am | #

    That third panel face looks a little bit manic….

  23. C.T. Phipps
    C.T. Phipps
    December 1, 2021 at 12:35 am | #

    Liz clearly wasn’t ready for sex yet and it’s good she didn’t force herself to go through it as a sign of “adulthood.”

  24. Juanoku
    Juanoku
    December 1, 2021 at 12:35 am | #

    Y’know, i didn’t want to hate Liz, but somehow this solidifies it

    • Rikunda
      Rikunda
      December 1, 2021 at 12:42 am | #

      Definitely makes me like her sister a LOT more.

    • zee
      zee
      December 1, 2021 at 9:30 am | #

      What? How?
      I feel like there were plenty of reasonable moments to dislike her that don’t include now

      • Juanoku
        Juanoku
        December 1, 2021 at 9:52 pm | #

        Oh no, i agree, i was just holding out hope

  25. Clif
    Clif
    December 1, 2021 at 12:54 am | #

    DOA 12: Everything’s Fine
    DOA 12: It Never Ever Happened
    DOA 12: I Am Dina

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      December 1, 2021 at 1:06 am | #

      It’s Walky.
      That’s Dina.

    • Keulen
      Keulen
      December 1, 2021 at 8:12 am | #

      DoA Book 12: Hello, Dina

  26. anonymsly
    anonymsly
    December 1, 2021 at 1:07 am | #

    I like Dina’s eyes going back and forth, tracking the conversation. I think I like it more knowing that, absent further specific details from Joe (or Liz) she’s probably not making any assumptions about said conversation. Anyone but Dina, and I would be worried about mistranslations and gossip fuel, but Dina does not play that.

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 1:14 am | #

      I sure hope you’re right about Joe wearing Dina like a backpack in the following strips.

    • Throwatron
      Throwatron
      December 1, 2021 at 1:18 am | #

      Honestly? I think Dina has literally figured it out. The only logical reason Joe would be having this conversation with a girl, and would be so shook, is if they almost had sex, but she called it off due to intense, internalized shame.

      A situation that, at this point, Dina is possibly intimately familiar with.

      • Eyebrow
        Eyebrow
        December 1, 2021 at 4:21 am | #

        Oooh good call.

      • Rabisch
        Rabisch
        December 1, 2021 at 4:55 am | #

        Seeing Dina and Joe bonding about problems with girls with intense, internalised shame would be nice and unexpected.

  27. Carms
    Carms
    December 1, 2021 at 1:20 am | #

    Haha, nice, could be better, could be worse, I like this. It feels like a good antidote to Joe catastrophising Liz. She’s not ruined-she’s still Liz.
    Which clears him up a bit to focus on the HIM specific reasons he feels like shit

    • Steelbright
      Steelbright
      December 1, 2021 at 2:43 am | #

      I hope this is how it works!

  28. Thag Simmons
    Thag Simmons
    December 1, 2021 at 2:29 am | #

    Wait is Dina about to learn about the Joyce-Becky fallout? Because I bet to Liz this looks like Dina and Joe are an item, and if she says that and gets corrected…

  29. Needfuldoer
    Needfuldoer
    December 1, 2021 at 2:38 am | #

    Everything is fine! Nothing is the matter!

  30. Steelbright
    Steelbright
    December 1, 2021 at 2:42 am | #

    isn’t Dina just perching on Joe’s shoulders (and Joe just totes accepting it) kind of the most adorable thing ever? I feel very strongly about how adorable it is in a very non-shipping way. the fact that it wouldn’t be a romance thing actually makes it way cuter (I feel I have to state that explicitly because “adorable” is a loaded word)

    • zee
      zee
      December 1, 2021 at 9:31 am | #

      I adore it

    • Wereg
      Wereg
      December 1, 2021 at 7:22 pm | #

      I absolutely ship their developing friendship. Joe seems to have a good amount of respect for Dina and how she engages with social situations, and Dina seems to feel very comfortable with Joe.

  31. Eldritchy
    Eldritchy
    December 1, 2021 at 3:30 am | #

    Ah the sweet power of Denial

  32. Sombrero
    Sombrero
    December 1, 2021 at 4:24 am | #

    So Liz is Walkyverse Joyce playing with a mind wiper. Ominous.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      December 1, 2021 at 6:10 am | #

      Joe’s screwed (heyoo!) once Anti-Liz finds him.

      • Sombrero
        Sombrero
        December 1, 2021 at 6:41 am | #

        And then if Liz does not kill Anti-Liz, Joyce will do it.

  33. Segnosaur
    Segnosaur
    December 1, 2021 at 4:37 am | #

    So… Where DID liz spend the night?

    Obviously not in Joe’s room (platonically). And we didn’t see anything from the Joyce/dorothy conversation to suggest she stayed with her and sarah. And sleeping in the couch of a common room seems a little… Risky.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      December 1, 2021 at 6:11 am | #

      It wouldn’t surprise me to find out she was up most of the night, and is currently running on caffeine and inertia.

  34. Rabisch
    Rabisch
    December 1, 2021 at 4:50 am | #

    And Dina has probably already understood everything. Nice to see her being formally introduced to Liz.

  35. Spencer
    Spencer
    December 1, 2021 at 5:47 am | #

    I kinda figure Liz is sticking around at least for a chunk of strips so she can get some resolution of her won.

    It’d be weird to find out she has both major sexual hangups as well as getting torn between capitulating to her stepmom by pretending she’s still a devout Christian and her peers mocking her for that fake persona she puts on, and then she just goes home and we don’t see her again.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      December 1, 2021 at 6:13 am | #

      Yeah, I assumed she’d be a one-and-done guest character. Didn’t expect her to stick around and instigate Joe’s crisis.

      • Spencer
        Spencer
        December 1, 2021 at 7:45 am | #

        Yeah that’s why I was thinking Liz would have a good time with Joe, while Joe himself would have all this painful drama because sleeping with Not Joyce did nothing to assuage his feelings. If Liz gets sent off with some newfound confidence then she’s played her role and finished her arc in case we never see her again, but now that we’ve seen her previous behaviour comes from her stifling Christian upbringing causing her a lot of current grievances, we kinda have to get at least some idea of where she’s going now unless we see her again in a few years. She can’t just be even more panicked over her sexual hangups than before and saunter off to a status quo that’s causing her misery.

  36. Bagge
    Bagge
    December 1, 2021 at 6:33 am | #

    Hello, Dina.

  37. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    December 1, 2021 at 6:54 am | #

    Dina is me, waiting for a moment to break the converse and join in a group.

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 3:26 pm | #

      Same here.

  38. mecklejay
    mecklejay
    December 1, 2021 at 7:31 am | #

    Oh gosh, that’s gotta be my favorite hover text ever. I’m so used to Star Wars references being peppered in where they don’t have any relevance that a genuine situationally appropriate reference took me by surprise.

  39. Josh Spicer
    Josh Spicer
    December 1, 2021 at 7:35 am | #

    Yes, because repeating that something never happened when it DID never happen is certainly not telling.

  40. Alex
    Alex
    December 1, 2021 at 8:03 am | #

    She seems so much like Joyce in that third panel. I want them to become long-term friends.

  41. Keulen
    Keulen
    December 1, 2021 at 8:16 am | #

    I wouldn’t have imagined Dina talking like Yoda until I read the hovertext.

    Also, kinda funny that even when she’s literally on Joe’s shoulders, it looks like Liz didn’t notice Dina until she introduced herself.

  42. Hydrohead
    Hydrohead
    December 1, 2021 at 8:21 am | #

    I swear that look on Liz’s face in the last panel is her wondering if Joe had this growth (Dina) yesterday and if so, how did she miss it.

  43. Vulcanodon
    Vulcanodon
    December 1, 2021 at 8:26 am | #

    Tasha Yar said the same thing to Data. But Joe is human, and likely to take it kinda personally.

  44. Deanatay
    Deanatay
    December 1, 2021 at 8:40 am | #

    Dina: Hello, Liz. You are currently making interesting faces. I am unfamiliar with the meaning behind these faces. I will remember them, and hopefully learn enough about them later to classify them properly. Until then, I will assume that the smile means you are happy. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

    • milu
      milu
      December 1, 2021 at 9:36 am | #

      Hello Liz, we were just talking about how Joe feels shameful but does not want to talk about it.

  45. Falcon
    Falcon
    December 1, 2021 at 9:46 am | #

    Joe and Dina vs Malaya and Fuckface. Make it happen!

  46. darkgloomie
    darkgloomie
    December 1, 2021 at 10:31 am | #

    hahaha fuck you Liz and the repressed, hypocritical, condescending horse you rode on. You can’t get out of the strip fast enough

    • milu
      milu
      December 1, 2021 at 10:38 am | #

      wow that’s really mean. dumping on fictional characters is fine but at some point it starts to feel uncomfortable to people who happen to like that character or identify with them, you know?

      • Hazel
        Hazel
        December 1, 2021 at 11:10 am | #

        agree

    • Sombrero
      Sombrero
      December 1, 2021 at 12:45 pm | #

      I never thought someone could mistake Liz for Mary.

      • Spencer
        Spencer
        December 1, 2021 at 1:00 pm | #

        She’s the atheist Mary on account of being mean that one time to the most powerful cultural force in the country.

        Much like Roz is the liberal Mary.

        Which is weird to me because Mary was so homophobic she nudged Ruth into a depressive spiral that ended in her hospitalization, which is probably on a different moral level than being maybe sort of annoying at the religious and cultural institution you lie that you’re still believing in at the cost of your relationships at college because your stepmom has receipts, and is even weirder now because Mary morphed into Wile E. Coyote and it’s hilarious.

        I wish Roz was still atheist Mary because that means we’d see Roz try and carve off the edge of a cliff and then the mass she’s standing on would suddenly fall.

      • darkgloomie
        darkgloomie
        December 1, 2021 at 1:55 pm | #

        I didnt tho?

        She’s a hypocrite, because she’s still hiding her atheism yet pushes Joyce to burn bridges with friends who don’t know her new atheism.
        She’s condescending for much the same reasons, plus the whole “insufferable new atheist who just HAS to dunk on religion to distance themselves from their past and show how kool and edgy they are”
        And she’s repressed because… well, this. Tbh I don’t really care either way about her trying to reframe the failed one night stand to regain control, but it grates on me how people relate to her, I feel like we aren’t even reading the same comic.

        But do go off and stand on your pedestals about how I’m obviously biased because of liking another character, if that makes you feel better.

        • Spencer
          Spencer
          December 1, 2021 at 2:47 pm | #

          I mean, yeah, there are definitely differing views flying around, in that I view the expression of her resentment against her upbringing as coming from a place of deep and personal pain where she doesn’t get the chance to express her feelings in ways that are healthy, and for that matter I don’t think dunking on the Christian church is unhealthy, but that’s in regards to cultural power structures as opposed to individual faith and a fairly complicated conversation in of itself.

          But, you know, that’s cool too. Folks are gonna come away with different reads on these characters, let alone the value of the actions they take. It’s not a blemish on anyone involved that we come away with different reads on the actions and morality of the characters, and if that sounds like postulating on my part, don’t worry, I only figured it out two weeks ago.

          There are those among us here who think Dorothy is neat. It’s genuinely terrifying to me.

          • Sombrero
            Sombrero
            December 1, 2021 at 3:02 pm | #

            But…but…Dotty is neat! (as in habitually tidy, smart, or well organized).

          • AKP
            AKP
            December 1, 2021 at 6:14 pm | #

            The Dorothy hate is wild to me. She’s literally just a normal well adjusted human being. With the kinds of flaws that well adjusted overachiever types have.

            • Spencer
              Spencer
              December 1, 2021 at 6:39 pm | #

              She’s literally just a normal well adjusted human being.

              Exactly.

              It’s like going to Arkham Asylum to hang out with the Penguin.

              • Sombrero
                Sombrero
                December 2, 2021 at 4:34 am | #

                Cannot agree. She is as “normal well adjusted human being” as many other members of the main cast (some of them are not currently well adjusted, e.g. Amber). She is one of us, she’s not on the other side. The Yale admission plot will be based on this (somewhere around 2030, I guess).

            • Wendy
              Wendy
              December 1, 2021 at 7:59 pm | #

              I like Dorothy. She’s a well-written Good Girl, with – as you say – some flaws. Believable flaws of the sort well-adjusted, healthy people tend to have. She’s a good foil for, well, most of the rest of the cast. They can’t ALL be lovable-yet-horribly-maladjusted nutjobs, as entertaining as that may be.

        • Sombrero
          Sombrero
          December 1, 2021 at 2:58 pm | #

          I prefer high horses to pedestals, but YMMV.

    • Nobonesforever
      Nobonesforever
      December 1, 2021 at 1:01 pm | #

      Damn bro, who hurt you

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      December 1, 2021 at 2:28 pm | #

      It’s funny because I like her more now that it’s clear she’s repressed and struggling than I did when all we could see was the pose.

    • Wereg
      Wereg
      December 1, 2021 at 7:26 pm | #

      Don’t be too harsh on her. She’s a kid that just pushed herself way too far out of her comfort zone so she could prove something to herself and just barely pulled back in time. She’s all but hyperventilating and either fighting off or flat-out experiencing a panic attack.

      The things she’s saying might be hurtful to Joe, but her reaction is very understandable.

  47. Dave
    Dave
    December 1, 2021 at 10:54 am | #

    Liz stayed another night? She only knows Joyce, Sarah and that circle of people. Who did she stay with? Did we miss her interactions with her sister “you are STILL HERE?!”

    • Hazel
      Hazel
      December 1, 2021 at 11:07 am | #

      Yesterday as in the previous night. Who knows where she ended up sleeping tho

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        December 1, 2021 at 12:57 pm | #

        Joe: “Where did you sleep after you left last night?”
        Liz: (Evasively) “Oh, you know… Around.”
        Joe: O_O
        Liz: (Innocently) “What?”
        Joe: O_o
        Dina: “I believe this situation calls for a ‘phrasing’.”

    • Spencer
      Spencer
      December 1, 2021 at 11:37 am | #

      I was thinking she had stayed in Joe’s room, just not in bed with him, so either he slept in his desk chair or maybe she slept in Danny’s bed and Danny being Danny didn’t argue about it.

      Alternatively she just found a couch to sleep on. It might not be important.

  48. BBCC
    BBCC
    December 1, 2021 at 1:50 pm | #

    Aww, she’s meeting her big sister’s best friend! How sweet.

  49. Wendy
    Wendy
    December 1, 2021 at 2:42 pm | #

    Hmmm, not liking the face Liz is making at Dina…gonna be interesting to see how this is gonna go. (I wonder if she thinks there’s something between Dina and Joe?)

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      December 1, 2021 at 2:49 pm | #

      The legends are true! The ladies really are all over him!

    • The Wellerman
      The Wellerman
      December 1, 2021 at 4:04 pm | #

      Which face is that exactly?

      By the way I must thank you again for showing your art site, it all looks fantastic!

      • Wendy
        Wendy
        December 1, 2021 at 5:58 pm | #

        Frown in the last panel.

        I’ve shown a little bit of my art here, but I don’t remember showing my art site; you might be thinking of someone else?

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 7:39 pm | #

          I think just two strips ago you put your site with the URL on your name?

          Is “Morning Coffee” one of your pieces?

          • Wendy
            Wendy
            December 1, 2021 at 7:54 pm | #

            Oh yeah! Thanks!

            • The Wellerman
              The Wellerman
              December 1, 2021 at 8:13 pm | #

              You’re welcome!

              By the way, as an artist, would you care to give me a couple of pointers to my latest work?

              https://www.newgrounds.com/art/view/thewellerman/super-amber-69
              (NSFW Warning)

        • The Wellerman
          The Wellerman
          December 1, 2021 at 7:46 pm | #

          Also, are you sure there’s anything suspicious about that face? It just looks like a blank expression to me.

          Yet again, I may be suckier at reading faces than I realize 😕

          • zee
            zee
            December 1, 2021 at 8:05 pm | #

            Nah you’re not, she’s literally just acknowledging Dina’s existence. I think it can be read as a frown bc she has strong eyebrows

            • Needfuldoer
              Needfuldoer
              December 1, 2021 at 8:50 pm | #

              She probably just finds it odd that Dina’s scaling him.

  50. Blibdoolpoolp
    Blibdoolpoolp
    December 1, 2021 at 3:41 pm | #

    Liz’s ride has been due any minute for like two days now.

  51. nothri
    nothri
    December 1, 2021 at 3:51 pm | #

    My spidey sense is telling me that in fact it did happen and that everything is in fact not fine.

  52. Kelly Chase
    Kelly Chase
    December 1, 2021 at 6:50 pm | #

    Dina is the best.

  53. James
    James
    December 1, 2021 at 11:43 pm | #

    Yeah that’s probably a healthy way to deal with all that, Liz.

  54. Tsa
    Tsa
    December 2, 2021 at 1:47 am | #

    dina just amassing a small harem nbd

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