A few generations after the end of the world, a small, poorly financed research crew is sent out to rediscover whatever is left of the forbidden old world in the south.
Blindsprings
Kadi Fedoruk
Tamaura, wrested into a world 300 years in the future, must find a way to save the magic fading from her country.
Scape
Lauren
Sula has always preferred to forge her own path, but before she knows it, she is pulled into the middle of a civil war between man and monster!
Star Impact
Jack McGee
A young, energetic woman fights her way up in the world of super-powered boxing after discovering the mighty gloves of her missing idol!
Alice and the Nightmare
Misha Krivanek
Alice finally attends University to learn to collect the dreams of humans, meet new friends, and deal with a pesky reflection along the way.
Empowered
Adam Warren
A sexy superhero comedy (except when it isn't) about the never-ending struggles of a plucky but very unlucky young superheroine.
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
Astral Aves
Moon Cabal
A fantasy coming-of-age following the adventures of Astra The Black and friends, as they navigate the mysterious world around them. It's politics, adventure, and the supernatural; oh, and crazy hair.
Augustine
Winter Jay Kiakas, Windy
August and her ragtag group are just like everyone else, simply surviving in the treacherous Crater... When they stumble into what may be an artifact of the ancient past, their lives are thrown into a much bigger loop as they trifle with bounty hunters, monsters and gods.
Darkling Bright
Chris Hazelton
Kieran Bright is a college student home for the summer and roped into an online reunion with his old neighborhood friends in the most recent update of their favorite childhood MMORPG.
At least, he was, and that was the idea...
Join Kieran and his friends as they are pulled into another reality that may or may not be real and are forced to confront their own identities, the nature of simulated universes and reality itself.
Sakana
Mad Rupert
Our heroes must navigate a hazardous dating scene, overcome personal anxieties, and wrangle unruly seafood in order to find love, peace of mind, and a paycheck.
The Last Diplomat
Cat Farris
Samma and Tark didn't ask to be stuck together, but now they're partners on the adventure of a lifetime.
The Golden Boar
Magnolia Porter Siddell
A young woman joins a group of summoners who call forth Guardian Beasts to protect their isolated magical island. Unfortunately, her Guardian Beast is nothing like she'd imagined, and he's about to change her life, and everything she thought she knew about herself...
Love Not Found
Gina Biggs
Abeille is on a quest to find someone who wants to do it the old-fashioned way in a time when touching has become outdated.
Saint for Rent
Ru Xu
Saint Halliday runs an inn for Time Travelers. Unfortunately, he seems to attract other supernatural "guests," too.
Sister Claire
Yamino
In the troubled aftermath of a great war between Witches and her fellow Nuns, novice Sister Claire just wants a purpose.
The Substitutes
Myisha Haynes
What happens when three roommates accidentally acquire otherworldly and powerful magic weapons destined for someone else?
Not Drunk Enough
Tess Stone
Logan Ibarra is possibly the unluckiest repairman in the world. A late night job should not have landed him in the middle of a mad scientist's squabble, but he soon finds himself surrounded by monsters and further madness with little tools to get out.
Aquapunk
Lo
In an underwater world of unknown coordinates, inhabited by aliens, ghosts, and robots, a young member of a warrior underclass is framed for a crime and goes on the run. Little does he know he is part of a grand design that only gods and ancestors could choreograph.
Alexander, The Servant & The Water of Life
Reimena Yee
The 21st century retelling of the life and legends of Alexander the Great.
Beeserker
TJ Cordes
This comic is about a robot powered by bees, but it's also about the kind of people who think filling a robot with bees is a good idea, and why they're wrong.
Quick$ilver
Crypto
The flirtatious, directionless, and ever disastrous Luci searches for excitement in a life of crime, and finds himself caught in a web of messy romance and bad blood.
Nerf Now!!
Josué Pereira
A cute webcomic about fanservice, video games, and... love. Mostly video games, though.
Ride or Die
Mars Heyward
Ride or Die is an LGBTQ webcomic about two street racers who team up with a demon-possessed muscle car in the search for a missing woman, while being hunted by a deadly religious cult.
Headless Bliss
Clover
A story about story-telling, and other metaphysical themes such as Nightmares! (Failed) Teamwork! Comedy! And more!
Trying Human
IntroducingEmy
Two women separated by over half a century are brought together by an alien-filled conspiracy involving murder, mystery and romance!
This is Not Fiction
Nicole Mannino
What do you do when the person you're in-love with is an anonymous romance novelist? Get your best friend to hire your worst enemy for help!
Barbarous
Ananth Hirsh, Yuko Ota
A crummy wizard and an anxious monster have to get over themselves and bring order to an apartment building full of misfits.
Cyanide & Happiness
Explosm
Satire, dark humor and surreal humor.
The Forgotten Order
Christy
A young witch for whom every spell is a misfire finds solace and friendship in her new companion - a cursed doll.
Little Tiny Things
Clover
What are the little things that move us? The simple joys that warm our bodies and hearts? The micro life of insects that influence our world more than we think? The tiny steps we make everyday to have a happier tomorrow?
Freakshow
Scotty
A festival of broken people, blood flows in the center ring. Come one and come all, to the greatest show in all of Paris.
Cassiopeia Quinn
Gunwild, Psudonym
A cute, pantsless thief is pursued across the stars by a buttoned-up military officer in the spacey, laser-filled future.
How to be a Werewolf
Shawn Lenore
Malaya Walters was bitten by a werewolf as a child. After being raised by her human family, she faces the chance to learn what being a werewolf is really like as an adult.
The End
August Brown, Cory Brown
Two aliens crash a sci-fi convention and accidentally take seven nerds on an adventure that spans the galaxy!
Sleepless Domain
Mary Cagle (Cube Watermelon)
In a world where magical girls and their battles are commonplace, loss has become all too common as well.
Namesake
Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
Widdershins
Kate Ashwin
A series of light-hearted Victorian-era adventure stories featuring grumpy bounty hunters, accidental thiefkings, and more, in England's magical capital city Widdershins!
Edison Rex
Chris Roberson
The adventures of the world’s greatest villain who, after defeating his superheroic nemesis, decides that he’s the only one left to defend the world.
ARISE, YE SKELETON KING
Brian Clevinger, Escher Cattle, Lee Black
A troupe of wandering "adventurers" down to their last silver "acquire" a map only to find the real treasure was the fiend they dug up along the way.
Kochab
Sarah Webb
A YA F/F fantasy comic about Sonya, a lost skier trying to survive a snowy wilderness and find her way back to her village; and Kyra - a fire spirit trying to fix the home that she let fall apart around her.
Goodbye to Halos
Valerie Halla
Cuddles, gay flirting, weird feelings, and magic-fueled knife fights - it's an adventure across the queer multiverse!
Nigh Heaven & Hell
Scotty
Heather Vodihn is on a simple mission: find her father. However she becomes entangled with two strangers with mysterious powers being stalked by a group with bizarre demands. Heather must learn to trust her new traveling companions, even if she is untrustworthy herself.
Within
Verena Loisel
A young hitman meanders between a reality that seems to happen without him, and his dreams where he is lost in an endless house. When he makes an accidental friend, his world is shaken up and he realizes there are things he can't remember about himself.
Gzhel Guardian
Atla Hrafney, nushanchel
The Railway World is a complex, mysterious network of trains, towns and mechanical monsters. Leo is a Guardian of one of these towns, and although their burn-out and depression has taken hold of them, they have one last job to finish.
Monsterkind
Taylor C
Wallace Foster, a young, bright-eyed human social worker, has his entire world view rocked when he's suddenly relocated into a city primarily inhabited by monsters.
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Missing Monday
Elle Skinner
Two girls fall in love through a magic door connecting their worlds. When Monday suddenly goes missing, it's up to Foyle to find her. How she's going to navigate an entirely unfamiliar world is another matter.
Lies Within
Lacey
Lysander's aimless and carefree life is turned upside down when he accidentally discovers that the cute boy next door, Simon, is a literal monster
The Weave
Rennie Kingsley
A young woman pursued by bad luck is witness to the murder of the Fairy Queen of Summer. Can she get to the bottom of this mystery?
BOOKMARK Click "Tag Page" to bookmark a page. When you return to the site, click "Goto Tag" to continue where you left off.
BUFFER WATCH
Comics are currently drawn and uploaded through:
I mean I don’t think it’s actually a thing at the university but it’s apparently a swedish thing to put bananas on pizza, and it’s even more controversial than pineapple on pizza so I went with that.
I don’t see what’s so wrong about bananas and pizza. I mean, not any wronger than many thing I’ve seen eaten in Germany, + if it’s cooking banana it’s a bit insensitive to call it out like it’s weird. Pizza is weird per se, like are many dishes when you’re not accustomed to it. I come from a rigid cooking background, used to a strictly codified meal organization that presidential dummies went so far to get unesco-protected, so I don’t wee why anyone should be offended by any food kind, unless it’s so highly industrialised that it’s very unhealthy and/or a corporate invention to get poorer people out of cooking meals together and rather get their food at industries.
Yeah, that sounds like one of those truly disgusting things pregnant people sometimes get cravings for, like ice cream with hot sauce or sugar on spaghetti.
Most people use tomato sauce for pizza, but who knows if Liz likes some other sauce on her pizza. And to actually answer you, I don’t think we’ve seen any hints that Liz likes banana on her pizza, we’re just speculating here lol.
Alright, now how many of you just want something to take your mind of this kind of thing?
I’m offering a free pixel art commission for anyone who can find me a 3D model with form and portions most similar to Dina! It’ll help me make something REALLY cool for all of you!!!
aren’t there online sites where you can type in a height and weight and it’d render a look of what a person should look like based on those? not sure how many of those are downloadable for art purposes tho
https://free3d.com/premium-3d-models/ there is this (IDK if the comments filter out links lol) but idk how many look dina-ish as opposed to existing chara models like a Vtuber or a model from like a final fantasy or yakuza game lol)
Don’t worry. These times have taken a huge toll on all of us, cognitive abities included.
If you want to talk about embarrassment, my host used to have SO MUCH brain power before this pandemic started, writing papers on Dark Matter and hyperfocusing on science research like nobody’s business.
Well there’s a Slipshine that has many nude references you can use to assemble one. Dina is a little “perky” for her canon cup size in DoA, but it should work out.
Yeah… funny thing. I actually put out this little search party content for you all because I DON’T want to use the Slipshine for reference. It’s kind of a personal thing, you know?
I was afraid that Joyce would say this about their childhoods. I just hope one day Becky isn’t afraid anymore, that she one day feels she can seek therapy that will be compassionate about her religious beliefs and give her the help she needs to get through her trauma.
Honestly, I’m actually glad that Joyce has said this to Dina, because both she and Becky desperately need to learn that hitting your kids isn’t normal, and is actually a fucking horrifying thing that they’ve both been conditioned to accept. If not for their own sakes, then at least for the sakes of any kids either of them might have years down the line.
I am too, talking about it will lead to healing from it, I was just afraid that this was what their childhood was, abusive when not being “good” and how much worse Becky’s abuse may have been beyond spanking.
I would object to the use of ‘normal = good’ here. Spanking was (and is) normal for Joyce’s community, just like rejecting gay people is normal. Normal isn’t synonymous with good! Normal is what everyone does.
I think they both have in their own ways, now will they process that their upbringing was not healthy in a way that’s productive and allows them to heal from it? Find out next time!… 5 years from now… maybe longer…
That journey has begun to an extent, but yeah, there’s going to be much more to unwrap.
One of the saddest parts is that, at around 18-19, they are already further in that path of self-discovery than many people get in 2-3 times their age. Some don’t start at all.
Joyce is already there, albeit she is dealing with heavy remnant brainwashing. Becky, on the other hand, has absolutely refused at every turn to acknowledge that the “good parts” of her religion are in actuality rooted in cult brainwashing. Hence why she told Joyce that she over-reacted. Hence why she is exhibiting cult-like behavior by trying to lure Joyce back to religion. She has not separated her upbringing from actual religion.
She’d def be a villain. Femme fatalle outfit, maniacal cackle, dinosaur themed minions. Her nemesis is Dorothy, who is not a hero and is only vaguely aware of Becky’s attempts at world conquest
I think there’s a picture attached to this that I can’t see? But I appreciate this comment, since to me spanking is a sex thing (the hottest of all sex things) and I get both furious and guiltily interested inn a fraught, nauseating way when people discuss the child abuse version of that ancient pagan sex act…I mean this is a more wholesome interpretation than what’s actually happening here with Dina and poor Joyce.
It’s sad to see Joyce turn the blame for the physical punishment back on Becky. “I was a good kid,” and then, rather than just say, “Becky’s parent(s) hit her” she says, “Becky wasn’t known for her obedience.” Sometimes, the euphemism hurts more than the truth.
No, it’s OK. Thank you, The Wellerman. You are thoughtful.
I have military PTSD. I’ve been better, but recent events have been very triggering. I’m having a hard time working. Having a hard time taking care of all my responsibilities.
I’m getting help for it, and it will be better soon. I have faith that it will.
It’s military plus a whole bunch of other stuff, and this comic is a little too on the nose sometimes.
As, I mean, we all do. So much trauma and pain in this community. And yet folks come together every night to chat and argue and leer and joke and support each other. It’s amazing.
That folks could be so snarky and so vulnerable and so insightful and gutter brained and caring and kind, all at the same time. It’s amazing.
It is (although not surprising, considering all the things she has to unlearn still), but I think she might have had a realization between panels 4-5, because my eyes don’t generally snap open when a light turns on
I think that since the topic of Becky wasn’t introduced yet, it might have been more just the perspective from her own household. The oft-spoken of Jordan, the rebel, was probably more what she was comparing herself to.
I don’t think we’ve met him yet, right? Just John and Jocelyn, the latter usually able to evade the parents’ scrutiny and be the “favorite”, and John, who has bought in to the system and benefits from it as we’re aware by now.
Jordan is still a total mystery. Though we did see him once in a Patreon flashback strip… set on Halloween, with a costume that entirely covered his head. (This is also where we get the sense that Jordan is between Jocelyne and Joyce in age, which has led to some serious concern about HOW old was he when he left, again? and ‘okay, HOW exactly?’ and also ‘Joyce seems to know very, very little about her next-closest sibling in age and so we come back to EXACTLY HOW YOUNG WAS HE AND WHAT PRECIPITATED THIS?!’)
That’s about the best we have, except for some enigmatic allusions and the vague sense that he’s estranged from their parents and likely initiated the estrangement, probably, given Hank and Carol’s argument when Joyce came home after the first kidnapping about how squeezing too hard led to Jordan’s situation and Carol arguing it happened because they didn’t squeeze hard enough.
My guess based on absolutely nothing beyond my knowledge of what appearances obsessed abusers are like? It started when he was in early teens with some petty crime or premarital hanky panky and they sent him into the evangelical troubled teen industry, after which he escaped and broke with the family. At that point Carol initiated shunning. That would explain him being out of her life so early she still has no real understanding of the conflict. Him being the family problem child would explain a lot about how all other siblings just accept “Jordan is too Jordan” to be involved – and something tells me he’s not too Jordan to want to come but Carol excluded him. Or he’s NC with his parents. One or the other.
I don’t think Joyce was turning the blame here though. It’s known now that Ross was an abusive father who regularly hit her. I think Joyce is just stating that and not that it was Becky’s fault for being “bad”.
Yeah, Joyce’s pause makes it clear she just wants to be as delicate as possible. I mean, YEAH, her entire dialogue here DOES lay out that she has not fully deprogrammed yet, but she UNDERSTANDS that it’s not normal.
Sad but also, sadly, sense-making. Kids try to rationalize things like this, and Joyce built her entire personality up until the first kidnapping around being the Good Christian Girl the adults in their lives approved of, specifically to avoid punishment. She’s had a head start on realizing the congregation was fucked up, but she hasn’t realized JUST how far outside some norms it is (and even then, while it is falling out of favor in the US spanking is still supported by a decent portion of the country, though I suspect distinctions would be drawn between bare-handed and with some sort of implement… which is a sad sentence,) and still hadn’t even unpacked things she no longer actually believed in until this last in-strip week. Add in the physical and mental drain and she’s definitely not equipped to realize how screwed up the words coming out of her mouth are (and can’t see Dina, who’s clearly really concerned by every word coming out of Joyce’s mouth.)
It’s the same dynamic Walky had with Sal at the beginning of the strip, before he started unpacking some of his memories and realizing that actually, yeah, the disparate treatment DID start well before Sal started ‘acting out’. Even still, Walky’s coping mechanism for the fact that their mom is emotionally abusive is to Never Ever Disappoint Her, Ever, because even if he’s starting to realize her treatment of Sal was never okay and stand up for her when he can, he’s still internalized ‘Mom’s love is conditional and I don’t want to be treated the way she treats Sal and if I disappoint her she will.’ That’ll take a lot of time to unpack. Unfortunately.
“All that is solid melts into air,
all that is holy is deconsecrated,
and the human at last is compelled to face the reality
of their condition, of their relationship with others
under sober circumstances.”
Yeah, I am relating hard to Joyce. Early in my journey of realizing that my upbringing was in fact abusive I’d so internalized my parents’ justifications I said many things just like what Joyce is doing now. It was like I’d been DARVO’d so many times I was doing it for them now.
“My parents didn’t abuse me! It was just a spanking, and I overreacted. It was my fault anyway, I shouldn’t have misbehaved. Besides you don’t get it, I was a holy terror, ANYONE would’ve lost their temper with me, I was obnoxious.”
She’s not saying “Becky’s parents hit her” though.
She just came off the topic of “Yeah, my parents hit me, but only like, twice because I obeyed them.” That’s how she rationalized her own abuse.
Then Dina asks if Becky was ever hit. Joyce pauses because she doesn’t know. But she’s not stupid. Joyce knows what Becky was/is like. So instead of lying about her realization and saying she doesn’t know, she indirectly states a fact that effectively means yes.
I don’t think she’s saying “she deserved it” but rather “…holy shit I’d never thought about it* before”. Which is pretty much how DoA goes for Joyce, right?
*”it” being the amount of discipline Becky endured at the hands of her (now known) terrible father
Of course, this is all just how I read it. Maybe I’m being too charitable.
I’m… sorry if this is additional stress, but it’ll bother me if I don’t ask for clarification: Is that agreement? Or is it sarcasm and then a lament that you don’t feel up to telling me why I’m wrong.
(Which is fine, I get it, I just don’t like having that coinflip of positive/negative interaction hanging in the air)
It just means that make a good prediction as to what’s happening in the scene. I just don’t really have the mental resources to evaluate it.
Above all else right now I just want to help others who don’t feel like dealing with this kind of stuff find other venues of conversation or otherwise to still engage with this community.
I know the feeling. Even before this pandemic started, my host body has seen some REALLY rough years. I’ll spare the gruesome details for now, but let’s just say that you don’t dedicate the overwhelming majority of your time to the comments section of a webcomic of all things if your life is going so great.
I know how much a lot of you value a way to just forget the world outside exists, if only for a few minutes. No matter what the case, I’m here for you. All of you.
This is 100% how I interpreted it, too. She needed some coping method and story to tell herself about why her parents hit her sometimes. And she just now realized that that story doesn’t really hold up when she tries to apply it to someone else. Sure Becky was a disobedient kid, but did she really deserve to be spanked with a wooden spoon for that? Wait–did *I* really deserve to be spanked with a wooden spoon when I was disobedient?? Surely I must have?? Does not compute????
Nah, I definitely agree that if Joyce is thinking about applying the rationalization she used for herself to Becky, it’d quickly lead to her going ‘wait no SHIT.’ between her love for Becky as she is and her knowledge that Ross was in fact THAT terrible. Not sure how much she’s engaging her thoughts at this moment, but I suspect if not now then when she’s more awake.
Bad behavior results in consequences. If you steal something, rape or kill someone, or storm the Capital you should expect to be punished, either by fines or jail time (or even forfeiture of one’s own life in particularly heinous offenses).
I see this as Joyce (1) accepting the concept of misbehavior deserving some form of punishment, including corporal punishment (spare the rod and spoil the child, dont’cha know?) and (2) since we don’t really know all of Becky’s back story, maybe she w̲a̲s̲ a little hellion and – in Joyce’s mind, given her upbringing – ‘deserved’ it.
The first consequence “bad behavior” results in, and should entirely be resumed to, is its own direct consequences on others.
The day we reach this point, when having failed to keep being civil is in itself its own punishment and enough a punishment, we get to a superior level as humanity.
The rest is political arrangement about not giving enough credit to education and collective responsibility.
Here me out here, but what if fundamentalist Christians are actually just Dina’s fetish? Now that she’s gotten what she wanted from Becky, she’s going after Joyce! A few months down the line Mary’s next on the hit list as she slowly builds her harem of church girls corrupted by the sin of carnal passion as well as logic and empirical evidence!
Well, Joyce saying this stuff, this strip and last, has certainly helped to revive within me a sense of purpose and passion, saving others from the grip of indoctrination with the Power of Science.
Whether Dina will exhibit a similar reaction, and whether or not her methods with other Christians would necessarily be sexual to any significant degree, this is not yet known.
Although, I for one wouldn’t turn it down if that DID happen to be the case.
I really hope we’re not going to brush over “yeah, I got physically abused, but only when I was really little, and I was an obedient kid so they almost never abused me” from Joyce. I know we’re worried about Becky, but this is important to talk about for both of them.
It can take a looooooooooooong time to realise “oh, it really was really bad.” Like, your funny stories give other people nightmares and your therapists tell you the people involved literally should’ve gone to jail for a long time and most people don’t survive that shit. That sort of thing. That’s what it can take.
First five years or so of my relationship with my wife, we had the following conversation at least once a month:
Her: “(Funny childhood anecdote)”
Me: “Oh that’s so sweet! (Funny childhood anecdote)”
Her: “… Honey, that’s child abuse. People go to prison for that.”
Like not sure if it’s writeable but I feel like abused college kids finding each other and bonding over funny stories about their childhoods that horrify those who didn’t grow up with abuse is a thing that happens a lot IRL. Certainly it was a running theme for me.
(That and having more than one friend make it their mission to get me to stop apologizing for existing.)
A lot of my friends who were abused growing up would avoid ppl with healthy upbringings for these conversations because… hard to put into words but for me it was that their sympathetic distress made me very uncomfortable. One part so normalized I didn’t see it as a big deal so to me at the time it felt like an overreaction. One part I felt I’d deserved it so I’d both minimize and justify it like Joyce is here and also felt deeply undeserving of their care and concern. And one part their distress on my behalf metaphorically shined a spotlight on things I’d rather keep concealed in the dark.
Not sure how you’d write that kind of scene but that sinking feeling when you realize that something you’d always thought of as funny and normal is very much not to people who don’t come from abusive households and so you just completely killed a lighthearted fun mood by total accident is something that I don’t see depicted in media almost ever.
What this is bringing to light for me is how many people weren’t hit in some way growing up. Not saying anyone should be, ever, I just thought it was something most people experienced.
It is seriously believed by some corporal-punishment proponents that hitting with a spoon is less damaging to the child than hitting with a hand, because it’s more impersonal.
I suppose this helps them to sustain the belief that they’re good people.
Ah yes, because it’s not like the logical follow-on from “this option is less damaging than that option” would be “maybe we could try not damaging at all”.
Maybe it’s the era I grew up in, but I find the abject horror over being hit with a wooden spoon to be laughable. Like I have literally laughed at such strikes. A wooden spoon is about the same as a spatula and both barely register more than a flyswatter. Being smacked with an open hand is more noticeable. And then there’s the Paddle which was common in schools when I was growing up. And, of course, the heavy leather belt…
Aside from what Friendly Frankenstein said… wouldn’t it depend on how the hitting is done? Certainly, when I was hit with the wooden spoon when young (before my parents figured out it wasn’t as good an option as its proponents insisted), it didn’t hurt much… but if an angry Toedad had been swinging it, I suspect I could’ve been left with lasting damage to my hand.
Hmm. So her parents not just her mother? Like the parent who stands by doesn’t deserve accolades but still. Hrm.
Also a slightly dark question: if Toedad did the same to Becky (which:unsurprising) would he have done the same to his wife? In fundamentalist communities it can kind of end up with wives in the same level as children at least in terms of having to defer to the man of the house: if not in a clear totalitarian hierarchy of husband>wife>kids. (And if you’re lucky said husband is at least a benevolent dictator but usually they just pretend/believe they are). Maybe Hank changed his mind even based on how Toedad ran his own household or when things went south with Jordan (they fucked up by gripping too tightly etc?)
I mean the toe was awful and likely played a great part in Bonnie’s deteriorating mental health (though the entire community is likely to blame too) so, i wouldn’t be surprised if he made her life more unbearable with physical absue
I agree. We know for a fact he feels entitled to impose his will on others, specifically in the name of returning them to what he imagines is God’s path for them. He brought a damn gun to campus and he allied himself with Blaine, a man of few scruples and ample violence, in the pursuit of bringing Becky back into the fold. It’s also clear that he did this stuff somehow genuinely believing it was right/justified, and he felt conflicted about at least some of that, but you know what? That doesn’t really excuse it or count for much, not when it comes to his impact. So yeah, Ross almost certainly used physical violence with his wife as well as his daughter.
Dina asked about parents. Joyce didn’t specifically say and we know Joyce tends to think of her parents as a unit, so I doubt she’d distinguish unless pushed on that distinction.
Also, I seriously doubt Joyce would have been present for any such punishment. Given Becky’s tendency to hide or deflect from worrying topics, I think Joyce wouldn’t have known when it happened and is only now doing the math on what she now knows about Ross, and what she knows about Becky, and oh, she does not like this now that she’s thinking about it.
And while I’m sure if Joyce tried to separate the Macintyre parents out, she’d WANT Bonnie not to have been part of the problem for Becky’s sake… she thought Ross was fine, or at least ‘he doesn’t understand but he can be talked around’ the way she convinced her parents about staying friends with Dorothy, probably right up until the point he pointed a gun at them both. So if she doesn’t know, and she never suspected Ross would someday kidnap Becky at gunpoint, and she knows Becky won’t talk about things and has complicated feelings about Ross… she really can’t say she knows for a fact Bonnie wasn’t involved. I don’t think she’s thinking of all that right now, but I definitely think if pushed, she’d have to say ‘I really don’t know.’
(On the subject of Bonnie being physically abused herself… we can’t know, but that’s definitely one I’ve gone ‘this seems worryingly plausible’ in the past, along with non-physical forms of abuse. If Becky wasn’t allowed a cellphone going away to college… sort of thing. Not a happy topic.)
(To be fair, it doesn’t strike me as super weird that she didn’t have a cell phone back then. I mean, not any more. Today, when she first went to college, not being allowed a cell phone is definitely something to comment on. But back then, when she first went to college, it wasn’t completely out of the ordinary. Sliding time scales are weird.)
And I agree with your first paragraph. In my (limited, non-fundie) experience, punishment is a family matter, and you do it behind closed doors. Joyce wouldn’t have seen it unless she was looking for it, and she wasn’t a particularly observant little kid.
When you mouse over the strip, browser shows a text, could be a description or a comment from the author.
Today comment is: “NOW sarah walks in on a couple at an inopportune time, where were you with joe and liz that’s right i read those comments yesterday that’s how long my buffer is”
I have a feeling that the one who was hitting Becky with the wooden spoon was her mother and that makes it so much more complicated to argue or see as totally wrong thing for her. But this feeling is definitely influenced by my personal experience.
Or it could have been her mum hitting her so her father wouldn’t? Which… I can see a woman trapped in an abusive relationship that her community normalised thinking “if I hit her she won’t end up bruised and will be able to sit down after. Her father hits hard”
That’s the kind of twist I’ve been expecting, the truly last bit of Becky’s idealised childhood that she loses isn’t her connection to Joyce but a loving mother who would never hurt her.
Could be wrong of course but I really do feel like the angelic version of Bonnie we’ve been shown is misleading, that she went to a dark place cause she felt she failed to live up to her communities standards.
I’ve interpreted it as her feeling trapped, and maybe like she failed Becky by not giving her all the tools she needed to break free from that world. Or maybe she couldn’t handle losing one of the few positive things in her life (Becky going away to college).
We’ve been seeing Becky’s childhood situation through her rose-colored glasses. Maybe someday she’ll be ready to process the whole picture.
Yea, whatever it is, there’s a very rose-coloured view of her childhood that is probably very useful cause who has time to unpack trauma when you’re in a storm.
Though based on how this comic works, it’s probs gonna be more of a “extreme situation has forced Becky to confront her trauma”
I find it odd that Becky is an only child honestly when it seems like most Christian families will decide to have two when they decide on a small family (and honestly I remember three often being considered the magic number in the church I grew up in: as in basically the perfect family size of not too large but growing Christian numbers rather than simply replacing/producing backups). I wonder if there was a reason for that. Storytelling wise having Becky be an only child makes sense just as trimming Joyce’s siblings down by two but I wonder if we’ll ever get a Watsonian reason too.
On one hand that’s maybe the most fucked up twist that could possibly transpire from these revelations.
On the other hand I am the exact kind of degenerate it would be made for.
That is a thing with a basis, right? That mothers get left to disciplining the kids. Like, god, when you’re already grievously ill like Bonnie was with a husband who’ll try to pray away the suicidal ideation, what’s hitting your kid gonna do to your self image?
My toddler hit the patio doors with a screwdriver and scratched the glass. Pretty certain he wouldn’t have done that with his bare hands.
(Also, baby has just turned 2. He wasn’t being deliberately destructive, he was enjoying getting to play with something not usually left within his reach – that he got after climbing – that he’d seen his daddy using, and making a fun loud noise. Obviously, we don’t want him doing this, so he was told “no” firmly, had the screwdriver taken away from him, and was sat on the stairs for a few minutes.)
Kids don’t need impersonality. They need love, encouragement, clear boundaries, some freedom, and (as they grow) the tools needed to work out what they can do, what they can do with permission, what they need help to do, and what they categorically cannot do and why. Baby is still a bit too young for more than e.g. “no hitting, you hurt your sister” but the girls (4 and 7) get talks about why what they did wasn’t OK, are expected to apologise, etc. But these are also discussions so e.g. the eldest will double-check the situations she is allowed to punch people without warning them first (in the unlikely event somebody tries to abduct her or a sibling, for instance), so we can discuss that she could hurt them and we don’t hurt other people – unless we really need to, to defend ourselves or somebody else (which meant that when she came home upset because she was “playing too rough” and the teachers wouldn’t listen to her explaining that some of the boys in her class were picking on a younger girl so she was helping her escape so she could play in peace, we both told her how proud of her we are and that she’s awesome, reassured her that her teachers do know she’s a good kid and she hardly ever gets in trouble, and confirmed that if adults are so dismissive children don’t think it’s worth telling them about problems, she has our permission to hit back)…
Man, remember way back in their first week where Joyce thought it qas okay to smack Joe around because he was “misbehaving” and it wouldn’t hurt because she was a girl and he was a guy.
That shit hits different now, huh
Huh, it hasn’t been since the “let’s pray about it” as an excuse to lecture Joyce comic that I’ve had a nice flash of rage about my upbringing. As someone whose always had an incredibly high pain tolerance my parents broke multiple spoons (wooden and plastic) and a ping pong paddle on me trying to get a response. My father eventually settled on a 1″x2″x10″ wooden “rod” when he wanted to make a point. I think it was worse for my sisters, since the upgrade carried over to everyone. It’s funny, when Becky first mentioned the spoon and discipline it didn’t even phase me. I had to go back and specifically look for the line of dialogue.
Had a mini-epiphany while reading the comments ranging form “I was spanked and I was fine” to “my parents stopped hitting me when I fought back”.
There are those of us who were spanked as kids who still have a good relationship with our parents, we don’t have to go to therapy to process it and we don’t need to cut or minimize contact with our parents/guardians for our own safety.
That doesn’t mean spanking is fine! It doesn’t mean it’s a reasonable punishment or something that should be endorsed!
But while comments (not just on this thread, but any threads across the internet) where people talk about being spanked and then go on to talk about how abusive their childhood was and how they don’t talk to their parents because of it, I bet there’s a lot of people who think “well that doesn’t sound like me at all, I still love and trust my parents, so spanking is not the problem here.”
As this comic attests, relationships with parents are complicated.
Spanking is bad! But for some people it was a one-time incident, easily forgiven and forgotten, while for other people it was part of a cycle of abuse that coloured their entire childhood.
Loading ...
Sarah: “I miss all the good stuff.“
Becky’s hair has its own character arc in this comic, huh?
…calling it now, Liz is just outside the door.
Something happened that made Sarah decide Liz was right to run away from Ball State and now she’s a regular member of the cast
We never find out what
They like banana on pizza.
SAUCE?
I mean I don’t think it’s actually a thing at the university but it’s apparently a swedish thing to put bananas on pizza, and it’s even more controversial than pineapple on pizza so I went with that.
There’s a bar/pizza place in Seattle thst has a pizza with grapes and bleu cheese.
We argue about pineapple on pizza while there are monsters going around doing things like this
I hope it was just a tumblr joke, but I did see a picture of a pizza with peas and mayo there once.
Welcome to Seattle where everything is wrong and you have to pay a premium for it
I don’t see what’s so wrong about bananas and pizza. I mean, not any wronger than many thing I’ve seen eaten in Germany, + if it’s cooking banana it’s a bit insensitive to call it out like it’s weird. Pizza is weird per se, like are many dishes when you’re not accustomed to it. I come from a rigid cooking background, used to a strictly codified meal organization that presidential dummies went so far to get unesco-protected, so I don’t wee why anyone should be offended by any food kind, unless it’s so highly industrialised that it’s very unhealthy and/or a corporate invention to get poorer people out of cooking meals together and rather get their food at industries.
It gets better:
Chicken pizza with banana AND pineapple!
I had a delicious pizza in Spain with apple and goats cheese.
I was pregnant and suffering from hyperemesis at the time so vommed it back up later – but it was really nice pizza.
Ooo, I don’t generally like goat cheese, but I recently had one that was good, and that pizza sounds interesting. I’d probably try it.
Yeah, that sounds like one of those truly disgusting things pregnant people sometimes get cravings for, like ice cream with hot sauce or sugar on spaghetti.
Or fishsticks and custard!!!
Yeah, they probably use some weird sauce, too.
Bananas with weird sauce on pizza is, actually, one of my favorites
Bananas, Nutella sauce, mascarpone/ricotta cheese perhaps? That actually sounds like a delicious dessert pizza to me.
Most people use tomato sauce for pizza, but who knows if Liz likes some other sauce on her pizza. And to actually answer you, I don’t think we’ve seen any hints that Liz likes banana on her pizza, we’re just speculating here lol.
Pesto works well as a pizza sauce. OOO! So does olive oil and ricotta
Alright, now how many of you just want something to take your mind of this kind of thing?
I’m offering a free pixel art commission for anyone who can find me a 3D model with form and portions most similar to Dina! It’ll help me make something REALLY cool for all of you!!!
Also Joyce’s Nightmare exists.
aren’t there online sites where you can type in a height and weight and it’d render a look of what a person should look like based on those? not sure how many of those are downloadable for art purposes tho
No, I’m talking about 3D models like from games and stuff that I can use to animate and rotoscope.
Thank you for the tip though. It is very much appreciated!
https://free3d.com/premium-3d-models/ there is this (IDK if the comments filter out links lol) but idk how many look dina-ish as opposed to existing chara models like a Vtuber or a model from like a final fantasy or yakuza game lol)
Oh! You’re gravitar is MewTwo.
….
Smash.
… fuck.
Your, not You’re.
This is especially embarrassing as I am a grammar teacher.
Don’t worry. These times have taken a huge toll on all of us, cognitive abities included.
If you want to talk about embarrassment, my host used to have SO MUCH brain power before this pandemic started, writing papers on Dark Matter and hyperfocusing on science research like nobody’s business.
Now my brain is… how do I put this?
Imagine… a flamethrower. Made of PAPER MACHÉ.
I’m just bummed because my sick Markaplier meme reference was entirely overshadowed by my grammar faux pass.
Well there’s a Slipshine that has many nude references you can use to assemble one. Dina is a little “perky” for her canon cup size in DoA, but it should work out.
Yeah… funny thing. I actually put out this little search party content for you all because I DON’T want to use the Slipshine for reference. It’s kind of a personal thing, you know?
I was afraid that Joyce would say this about their childhoods. I just hope one day Becky isn’t afraid anymore, that she one day feels she can seek therapy that will be compassionate about her religious beliefs and give her the help she needs to get through her trauma.
Also just love how Willis’ art has developed during the run of this comic, the concern on Dina’s face is so well done
Yeah this is rough
Honestly, I’m actually glad that Joyce has said this to Dina, because both she and Becky desperately need to learn that hitting your kids isn’t normal, and is actually a fucking horrifying thing that they’ve both been conditioned to accept. If not for their own sakes, then at least for the sakes of any kids either of them might have years down the line.
I am too, talking about it will lead to healing from it, I was just afraid that this was what their childhood was, abusive when not being “good” and how much worse Becky’s abuse may have been beyond spanking.
I would object to the use of ‘normal = good’ here. Spanking was (and is) normal for Joyce’s community, just like rejecting gay people is normal. Normal isn’t synonymous with good! Normal is what everyone does.
Exactly. Child abuse is normal in the South, parents do it, schools do it. Doesn’t make it right.
I feel like Joyce and Becky are gonna have to spend some time processing that their upbringing was not healthy
Will that happen anytime soon? Probably not
I think they both have in their own ways, now will they process that their upbringing was not healthy in a way that’s productive and allows them to heal from it? Find out next time!… 5 years from now… maybe longer…
That journey has begun to an extent, but yeah, there’s going to be much more to unwrap.
One of the saddest parts is that, at around 18-19, they are already further in that path of self-discovery than many people get in 2-3 times their age. Some don’t start at all.
Joyce is already there, albeit she is dealing with heavy remnant brainwashing. Becky, on the other hand, has absolutely refused at every turn to acknowledge that the “good parts” of her religion are in actuality rooted in cult brainwashing. Hence why she told Joyce that she over-reacted. Hence why she is exhibiting cult-like behavior by trying to lure Joyce back to religion. She has not separated her upbringing from actual religion.
So far they really haven’t gotten much time to process that stuff, but hopefully they will soon.
A fuckton, Sarah. I mean, you were away from campus for months realtime.
That look of dawning horror on Dina’s face in Panel 3 is fucking getting to me.
How long till Becky becomes a spoon themed masked vigilante? IU really needs one right now.
KGLDFSHKJGSFAHGLJSAHSAJDLHFUSBSIOGBSOGH;WRJ
And just what is the above bowl of alphabet soup supposed to mean?
Based on my knowledge of the internet, it means… uh… *consults handbook*
That they’re a “bottom” and either flustered or incredibly amused.
Better be careful, or she could end up going supervillain and emulating The Ginosaji.
She’d def be a villain. Femme fatalle outfit, maniacal cackle, dinosaur themed minions. Her nemesis is Dorothy, who is not a hero and is only vaguely aware of Becky’s attempts at world conquest
“I finally got you prone, and I’m facing the wrong way.”–Dave (Bruce Willis) to Maddie (Sybil Sheppard) on Moonlighting
While I’m sure this is shocking for Dinah, it’s not going to be much of a revelation that Becky’s childhood was abusive to others.
Well ToeDead did kidnap her twice from campus once at gunpoint, so there is that datapoint to go from.
Get your mind out of the gutter Sarah, it’s just two college girls lying in bed and discussing spanking.
This brightened my mood. Thanks!
I think there’s a picture attached to this that I can’t see? But I appreciate this comment, since to me spanking is a sex thing (the hottest of all sex things) and I get both furious and guiltily interested inn a fraught, nauseating way when people discuss the child abuse version of that ancient pagan sex act…I mean this is a more wholesome interpretation than what’s actually happening here with Dina and poor Joyce.
(sits quietly)
(puts hand on chin)
(opens mouth to speak)
(closes mouth and covers with hand)
It’s sad to see Joyce turn the blame for the physical punishment back on Becky. “I was a good kid,” and then, rather than just say, “Becky’s parent(s) hit her” she says, “Becky wasn’t known for her obedience.” Sometimes, the euphemism hurts more than the truth.
That’s exactly why euphemisms exist though — to make lies sound truthful, to make abuse respectable, to give the impression of solidity to pure wind.
Humans… go figure.
Laura, sorry. 🥺 I get the impression you might not want to engage in this kind of thing right now, and I’m sorry if I caused you any stress!!!
No, it’s OK. Thank you, The Wellerman. You are thoughtful.
I have military PTSD. I’ve been better, but recent events have been very triggering. I’m having a hard time working. Having a hard time taking care of all my responsibilities.
I’m getting help for it, and it will be better soon. I have faith that it will.
Thank you for caring about me.
It’s military plus a whole bunch of other stuff, and this comic is a little too on the nose sometimes.
As, I mean, we all do. So much trauma and pain in this community. And yet folks come together every night to chat and argue and leer and joke and support each other. It’s amazing.
That folks could be so snarky and so vulnerable and so insightful and gutter brained and caring and kind, all at the same time. It’s amazing.
It is (although not surprising, considering all the things she has to unlearn still), but I think she might have had a realization between panels 4-5, because my eyes don’t generally snap open when a light turns on
I think Dina and Joyce are just startled and looking toward the source of the “click”
I think that since the topic of Becky wasn’t introduced yet, it might have been more just the perspective from her own household. The oft-spoken of Jordan, the rebel, was probably more what she was comparing herself to.
I don’t think we’ve met him yet, right? Just John and Jocelyn, the latter usually able to evade the parents’ scrutiny and be the “favorite”, and John, who has bought in to the system and benefits from it as we’re aware by now.
Jordan is still a total mystery. Though we did see him once in a Patreon flashback strip… set on Halloween, with a costume that entirely covered his head. (This is also where we get the sense that Jordan is between Jocelyne and Joyce in age, which has led to some serious concern about HOW old was he when he left, again? and ‘okay, HOW exactly?’ and also ‘Joyce seems to know very, very little about her next-closest sibling in age and so we come back to EXACTLY HOW YOUNG WAS HE AND WHAT PRECIPITATED THIS?!’)
That’s about the best we have, except for some enigmatic allusions and the vague sense that he’s estranged from their parents and likely initiated the estrangement, probably, given Hank and Carol’s argument when Joyce came home after the first kidnapping about how squeezing too hard led to Jordan’s situation and Carol arguing it happened because they didn’t squeeze hard enough.
We’re concerned about Jordan, yes, yes, yes.
was that last bit meant to be read with the same cadence as “We don’t talk about Bruno, no, no, no?”
100%.
My guess based on absolutely nothing beyond my knowledge of what appearances obsessed abusers are like? It started when he was in early teens with some petty crime or premarital hanky panky and they sent him into the evangelical troubled teen industry, after which he escaped and broke with the family. At that point Carol initiated shunning. That would explain him being out of her life so early she still has no real understanding of the conflict. Him being the family problem child would explain a lot about how all other siblings just accept “Jordan is too Jordan” to be involved – and something tells me he’s not too Jordan to want to come but Carol excluded him. Or he’s NC with his parents. One or the other.
I don’t think Joyce was turning the blame here though. It’s known now that Ross was an abusive father who regularly hit her. I think Joyce is just stating that and not that it was Becky’s fault for being “bad”.
Yeah, Joyce’s pause makes it clear she just wants to be as delicate as possible. I mean, YEAH, her entire dialogue here DOES lay out that she has not fully deprogrammed yet, but she UNDERSTANDS that it’s not normal.
Sad but also, sadly, sense-making. Kids try to rationalize things like this, and Joyce built her entire personality up until the first kidnapping around being the Good Christian Girl the adults in their lives approved of, specifically to avoid punishment. She’s had a head start on realizing the congregation was fucked up, but she hasn’t realized JUST how far outside some norms it is (and even then, while it is falling out of favor in the US spanking is still supported by a decent portion of the country, though I suspect distinctions would be drawn between bare-handed and with some sort of implement… which is a sad sentence,) and still hadn’t even unpacked things she no longer actually believed in until this last in-strip week. Add in the physical and mental drain and she’s definitely not equipped to realize how screwed up the words coming out of her mouth are (and can’t see Dina, who’s clearly really concerned by every word coming out of Joyce’s mouth.)
It’s the same dynamic Walky had with Sal at the beginning of the strip, before he started unpacking some of his memories and realizing that actually, yeah, the disparate treatment DID start well before Sal started ‘acting out’. Even still, Walky’s coping mechanism for the fact that their mom is emotionally abusive is to Never Ever Disappoint Her, Ever, because even if he’s starting to realize her treatment of Sal was never okay and stand up for her when he can, he’s still internalized ‘Mom’s love is conditional and I don’t want to be treated the way she treats Sal and if I disappoint her she will.’ That’ll take a lot of time to unpack. Unfortunately.
These poor kids.
“All that is solid melts into air,
all that is holy is deconsecrated,
and the human at last is compelled to face the reality
of their condition, of their relationship with others
under sober circumstances.”
Also, great to see you got some of your spoons back Regalli!!!
Yeah, I am relating hard to Joyce. Early in my journey of realizing that my upbringing was in fact abusive I’d so internalized my parents’ justifications I said many things just like what Joyce is doing now. It was like I’d been DARVO’d so many times I was doing it for them now.
“My parents didn’t abuse me! It was just a spanking, and I overreacted. It was my fault anyway, I shouldn’t have misbehaved. Besides you don’t get it, I was a holy terror, ANYONE would’ve lost their temper with me, I was obnoxious.”
She’s not saying “Becky’s parents hit her” though.
She just came off the topic of “Yeah, my parents hit me, but only like, twice because I obeyed them.” That’s how she rationalized her own abuse.
Then Dina asks if Becky was ever hit. Joyce pauses because she doesn’t know. But she’s not stupid. Joyce knows what Becky was/is like. So instead of lying about her realization and saying she doesn’t know, she indirectly states a fact that effectively means yes.
I don’t think she’s saying “she deserved it” but rather “…holy shit I’d never thought about it* before”. Which is pretty much how DoA goes for Joyce, right?
*”it” being the amount of discipline Becky endured at the hands of her (now known) terrible father
Of course, this is all just how I read it. Maybe I’m being too charitable.
This sounds reasonable, yes. If only I had the spoons. *sigh*
I’m… sorry if this is additional stress, but it’ll bother me if I don’t ask for clarification: Is that agreement? Or is it sarcasm and then a lament that you don’t feel up to telling me why I’m wrong.
(Which is fine, I get it, I just don’t like having that coinflip of positive/negative interaction hanging in the air)
Thank you for being considerate.
It just means that make a good prediction as to what’s happening in the scene. I just don’t really have the mental resources to evaluate it.
Above all else right now I just want to help others who don’t feel like dealing with this kind of stuff find other venues of conversation or otherwise to still engage with this community.
I know the feeling. Even before this pandemic started, my host body has seen some REALLY rough years. I’ll spare the gruesome details for now, but let’s just say that you don’t dedicate the overwhelming majority of your time to the comments section of a webcomic of all things if your life is going so great.
I know how much a lot of you value a way to just forget the world outside exists, if only for a few minutes. No matter what the case, I’m here for you. All of you.
That is so kind of you, The Wellerman. I think you are a very kind person.
The Wellerman doesn’t like sarcasm, if I remember right. I think their comment is sincere.
This is 100% how I interpreted it, too. She needed some coping method and story to tell herself about why her parents hit her sometimes. And she just now realized that that story doesn’t really hold up when she tries to apply it to someone else. Sure Becky was a disobedient kid, but did she really deserve to be spanked with a wooden spoon for that? Wait–did *I* really deserve to be spanked with a wooden spoon when I was disobedient?? Surely I must have?? Does not compute????
Nah, I definitely agree that if Joyce is thinking about applying the rationalization she used for herself to Becky, it’d quickly lead to her going ‘wait no SHIT.’ between her love for Becky as she is and her knowledge that Ross was in fact THAT terrible. Not sure how much she’s engaging her thoughts at this moment, but I suspect if not now then when she’s more awake.
Bad behavior results in consequences. If you steal something, rape or kill someone, or storm the Capital you should expect to be punished, either by fines or jail time (or even forfeiture of one’s own life in particularly heinous offenses).
I see this as Joyce (1) accepting the concept of misbehavior deserving some form of punishment, including corporal punishment (spare the rod and spoil the child, dont’cha know?) and (2) since we don’t really know all of Becky’s back story, maybe she w̲a̲s̲ a little hellion and – in Joyce’s mind, given her upbringing – ‘deserved’ it.
Counterpoint: don’t hit your kids
Alright screw this. Who wants to help me make a game for you all?
The first consequence “bad behavior” results in, and should entirely be resumed to, is its own direct consequences on others.
The day we reach this point, when having failed to keep being civil is in itself its own punishment and enough a punishment, we get to a superior level as humanity.
The rest is political arrangement about not giving enough credit to education and collective responsibility.
Here me out here, but what if fundamentalist Christians are actually just Dina’s fetish? Now that she’s gotten what she wanted from Becky, she’s going after Joyce! A few months down the line Mary’s next on the hit list as she slowly builds her harem of church girls corrupted by the sin of carnal passion as well as logic and empirical evidence!
Well, Joyce saying this stuff, this strip and last, has certainly helped to revive within me a sense of purpose and passion, saving others from the grip of indoctrination with the Power of Science.
Whether Dina will exhibit a similar reaction, and whether or not her methods with other Christians would necessarily be sexual to any significant degree, this is not yet known.
Although, I for one wouldn’t turn it down if that DID happen to be the case.
@yotomoe
You missed the pre-marital lesbian sex, Sarah.
That’s what you missed.
I really hope we’re not going to brush over “yeah, I got physically abused, but only when I was really little, and I was an obedient kid so they almost never abused me” from Joyce. I know we’re worried about Becky, but this is important to talk about for both of them.
It can take a looooooooooooong time to realise “oh, it really was really bad.” Like, your funny stories give other people nightmares and your therapists tell you the people involved literally should’ve gone to jail for a long time and most people don’t survive that shit. That sort of thing. That’s what it can take.
First five years or so of my relationship with my wife, we had the following conversation at least once a month:
Her: “(Funny childhood anecdote)”
Me: “Oh that’s so sweet! (Funny childhood anecdote)”
Her: “… Honey, that’s child abuse. People go to prison for that.”
I used to have that conversation with people a lot
Like not sure if it’s writeable but I feel like abused college kids finding each other and bonding over funny stories about their childhoods that horrify those who didn’t grow up with abuse is a thing that happens a lot IRL. Certainly it was a running theme for me.
(That and having more than one friend make it their mission to get me to stop apologizing for existing.)
A lot of my friends who were abused growing up would avoid ppl with healthy upbringings for these conversations because… hard to put into words but for me it was that their sympathetic distress made me very uncomfortable. One part so normalized I didn’t see it as a big deal so to me at the time it felt like an overreaction. One part I felt I’d deserved it so I’d both minimize and justify it like Joyce is here and also felt deeply undeserving of their care and concern. And one part their distress on my behalf metaphorically shined a spotlight on things I’d rather keep concealed in the dark.
Not sure how you’d write that kind of scene but that sinking feeling when you realize that something you’d always thought of as funny and normal is very much not to people who don’t come from abusive households and so you just completely killed a lighthearted fun mood by total accident is something that I don’t see depicted in media almost ever.
I mean, they DON’T, but they should.
What this is bringing to light for me is how many people weren’t hit in some way growing up. Not saying anyone should be, ever, I just thought it was something most people experienced.
And here we see Dina navigating the post-nut-clarity to unpacking-childhood-trauma pipeline
It is seriously believed by some corporal-punishment proponents that hitting with a spoon is less damaging to the child than hitting with a hand, because it’s more impersonal.
I suppose this helps them to sustain the belief that they’re good people.
Ah yes, because it’s not like the logical follow-on from “this option is less damaging than that option” would be “maybe we could try not damaging at all”.
Maybe it’s the era I grew up in, but I find the abject horror over being hit with a wooden spoon to be laughable. Like I have literally laughed at such strikes. A wooden spoon is about the same as a spatula and both barely register more than a flyswatter. Being smacked with an open hand is more noticeable. And then there’s the Paddle which was common in schools when I was growing up. And, of course, the heavy leather belt…
I mean this very kindly, but yes, this is very much the era you lived in. And you did not deserve to have that happen.
Aside from what Friendly Frankenstein said… wouldn’t it depend on how the hitting is done? Certainly, when I was hit with the wooden spoon when young (before my parents figured out it wasn’t as good an option as its proponents insisted), it didn’t hurt much… but if an angry Toedad had been swinging it, I suspect I could’ve been left with lasting damage to my hand.
(Or possibly to the spoon. Which would break first? Knowing Toedad, he’d likely have invested in a more sturdy spoon for next time.)
Dina: I fucked Becky.
Alt-text: So, here’s the obligatory comment for x months hence asking whether Becky’s going to walk in on Dina and Joyce in bed together.
Nice timing, Sarah.
Hmm. So her parents not just her mother? Like the parent who stands by doesn’t deserve accolades but still. Hrm.
Also a slightly dark question: if Toedad did the same to Becky (which:unsurprising) would he have done the same to his wife? In fundamentalist communities it can kind of end up with wives in the same level as children at least in terms of having to defer to the man of the house: if not in a clear totalitarian hierarchy of husband>wife>kids. (And if you’re lucky said husband is at least a benevolent dictator but usually they just pretend/believe they are). Maybe Hank changed his mind even based on how Toedad ran his own household or when things went south with Jordan (they fucked up by gripping too tightly etc?)
I mean the toe was awful and likely played a great part in Bonnie’s deteriorating mental health (though the entire community is likely to blame too) so, i wouldn’t be surprised if he made her life more unbearable with physical absue
I agree. We know for a fact he feels entitled to impose his will on others, specifically in the name of returning them to what he imagines is God’s path for them. He brought a damn gun to campus and he allied himself with Blaine, a man of few scruples and ample violence, in the pursuit of bringing Becky back into the fold. It’s also clear that he did this stuff somehow genuinely believing it was right/justified, and he felt conflicted about at least some of that, but you know what? That doesn’t really excuse it or count for much, not when it comes to his impact. So yeah, Ross almost certainly used physical violence with his wife as well as his daughter.
Dina asked about parents. Joyce didn’t specifically say and we know Joyce tends to think of her parents as a unit, so I doubt she’d distinguish unless pushed on that distinction.
Also, I seriously doubt Joyce would have been present for any such punishment. Given Becky’s tendency to hide or deflect from worrying topics, I think Joyce wouldn’t have known when it happened and is only now doing the math on what she now knows about Ross, and what she knows about Becky, and oh, she does not like this now that she’s thinking about it.
And while I’m sure if Joyce tried to separate the Macintyre parents out, she’d WANT Bonnie not to have been part of the problem for Becky’s sake… she thought Ross was fine, or at least ‘he doesn’t understand but he can be talked around’ the way she convinced her parents about staying friends with Dorothy, probably right up until the point he pointed a gun at them both. So if she doesn’t know, and she never suspected Ross would someday kidnap Becky at gunpoint, and she knows Becky won’t talk about things and has complicated feelings about Ross… she really can’t say she knows for a fact Bonnie wasn’t involved. I don’t think she’s thinking of all that right now, but I definitely think if pushed, she’d have to say ‘I really don’t know.’
(On the subject of Bonnie being physically abused herself… we can’t know, but that’s definitely one I’ve gone ‘this seems worryingly plausible’ in the past, along with non-physical forms of abuse. If Becky wasn’t allowed a cellphone going away to college… sort of thing. Not a happy topic.)
(To be fair, it doesn’t strike me as super weird that she didn’t have a cell phone back then. I mean, not any more. Today, when she first went to college, not being allowed a cell phone is definitely something to comment on. But back then, when she first went to college, it wasn’t completely out of the ordinary. Sliding time scales are weird.)
And I agree with your first paragraph. In my (limited, non-fundie) experience, punishment is a family matter, and you do it behind closed doors. Joyce wouldn’t have seen it unless she was looking for it, and she wasn’t a particularly observant little kid.
Willis, your alt was pretty specific. R u okay?
What alt? I couldn’t read it.
When you mouse over the strip, browser shows a text, could be a description or a comment from the author.
Today comment is: “NOW sarah walks in on a couple at an inopportune time, where were you with joe and liz that’s right i read those comments yesterday that’s how long my buffer is”
Thank you!
I remember that Sarah and Woo comic (wait, no) about “what did you hate as a kid but like now ?” => spanking
I have a feeling that the one who was hitting Becky with the wooden spoon was her mother and that makes it so much more complicated to argue or see as totally wrong thing for her. But this feeling is definitely influenced by my personal experience.
I hope you’re wrong in Becky’s case.
Or it could have been her mum hitting her so her father wouldn’t? Which… I can see a woman trapped in an abusive relationship that her community normalised thinking “if I hit her she won’t end up bruised and will be able to sit down after. Her father hits hard”
That’s the kind of twist I’ve been expecting, the truly last bit of Becky’s idealised childhood that she loses isn’t her connection to Joyce but a loving mother who would never hurt her.
Could be wrong of course but I really do feel like the angelic version of Bonnie we’ve been shown is misleading, that she went to a dark place cause she felt she failed to live up to her communities standards.
I’ve interpreted it as her feeling trapped, and maybe like she failed Becky by not giving her all the tools she needed to break free from that world. Or maybe she couldn’t handle losing one of the few positive things in her life (Becky going away to college).
We’ve been seeing Becky’s childhood situation through her rose-colored glasses. Maybe someday she’ll be ready to process the whole picture.
Yea, whatever it is, there’s a very rose-coloured view of her childhood that is probably very useful cause who has time to unpack trauma when you’re in a storm.
Though based on how this comic works, it’s probs gonna be more of a “extreme situation has forced Becky to confront her trauma”
I find it odd that Becky is an only child honestly when it seems like most Christian families will decide to have two when they decide on a small family (and honestly I remember three often being considered the magic number in the church I grew up in: as in basically the perfect family size of not too large but growing Christian numbers rather than simply replacing/producing backups). I wonder if there was a reason for that. Storytelling wise having Becky be an only child makes sense just as trimming Joyce’s siblings down by two but I wonder if we’ll ever get a Watsonian reason too.
On one hand that’s maybe the most fucked up twist that could possibly transpire from these revelations.
On the other hand I am the exact kind of degenerate it would be made for.
That is a thing with a basis, right? That mothers get left to disciplining the kids. Like, god, when you’re already grievously ill like Bonnie was with a husband who’ll try to pray away the suicidal ideation, what’s hitting your kid gonna do to your self image?
I believe in you, but Becky’s mom looked so careful on her, when Becky got flashback, as they invaded Toedad’s house…
My toddler hit the patio doors with a screwdriver and scratched the glass. Pretty certain he wouldn’t have done that with his bare hands.
(Also, baby has just turned 2. He wasn’t being deliberately destructive, he was enjoying getting to play with something not usually left within his reach – that he got after climbing – that he’d seen his daddy using, and making a fun loud noise. Obviously, we don’t want him doing this, so he was told “no” firmly, had the screwdriver taken away from him, and was sat on the stairs for a few minutes.)
Kids don’t need impersonality. They need love, encouragement, clear boundaries, some freedom, and (as they grow) the tools needed to work out what they can do, what they can do with permission, what they need help to do, and what they categorically cannot do and why. Baby is still a bit too young for more than e.g. “no hitting, you hurt your sister” but the girls (4 and 7) get talks about why what they did wasn’t OK, are expected to apologise, etc. But these are also discussions so e.g. the eldest will double-check the situations she is allowed to punch people without warning them first (in the unlikely event somebody tries to abduct her or a sibling, for instance), so we can discuss that she could hurt them and we don’t hurt other people – unless we really need to, to defend ourselves or somebody else (which meant that when she came home upset because she was “playing too rough” and the teachers wouldn’t listen to her explaining that some of the boys in her class were picking on a younger girl so she was helping her escape so she could play in peace, we both told her how proud of her we are and that she’s awesome, reassured her that her teachers do know she’s a good kid and she hardly ever gets in trouble, and confirmed that if adults are so dismissive children don’t think it’s worth telling them about problems, she has our permission to hit back)…
This was supposed to be a reply to Chris Phoenix, https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/03-trial-and-sarah/hityou/#comment-1619627
Feel like you can kinda feel Joyce processing what she’s saying as she says it in this one.
Wonder what’s the physical equivalent of “Phrasing!”… “LEWD”?
“Buffer“? Please come back to us in the present, Willis!
Man, remember way back in their first week where Joyce thought it qas okay to smack Joe around because he was “misbehaving” and it wouldn’t hurt because she was a girl and he was a guy.
That shit hits different now, huh
Oh fuck you’re right
Huh, it hasn’t been since the “let’s pray about it” as an excuse to lecture Joyce comic that I’ve had a nice flash of rage about my upbringing. As someone whose always had an incredibly high pain tolerance my parents broke multiple spoons (wooden and plastic) and a ping pong paddle on me trying to get a response. My father eventually settled on a 1″x2″x10″ wooden “rod” when he wanted to make a point. I think it was worse for my sisters, since the upgrade carried over to everyone. It’s funny, when Becky first mentioned the spoon and discipline it didn’t even phase me. I had to go back and specifically look for the line of dialogue.
That is really fucked up. Cycle of abuse, and all that.
Had a mini-epiphany while reading the comments ranging form “I was spanked and I was fine” to “my parents stopped hitting me when I fought back”.
There are those of us who were spanked as kids who still have a good relationship with our parents, we don’t have to go to therapy to process it and we don’t need to cut or minimize contact with our parents/guardians for our own safety.
That doesn’t mean spanking is fine! It doesn’t mean it’s a reasonable punishment or something that should be endorsed!
But while comments (not just on this thread, but any threads across the internet) where people talk about being spanked and then go on to talk about how abusive their childhood was and how they don’t talk to their parents because of it, I bet there’s a lot of people who think “well that doesn’t sound like me at all, I still love and trust my parents, so spanking is not the problem here.”
As this comic attests, relationships with parents are complicated.
Spanking is bad! But for some people it was a one-time incident, easily forgiven and forgotten, while for other people it was part of a cycle of abuse that coloured their entire childhood.
It’s less about a specific practice and more about the way your parents treated you in general.
Well the alt text sure called me out
Just in case anyone here knows someone facing homelessness, HUD has these resources compiled (you can narrow down by region):
https://www.hudexchange.info/housing-and-homeless-assistance/homeless-help/
And specifically for LGBTQIA2+ people in crisis:
https://www.hudexchange.info/homelessness-assistance/resources-for-lgbt-homelessness/#resources-for-homeless-lgbtq-individuals-in-crisis
And then the folks who compile these resources are amazing:
https://affordablehousingonline.com/coronavirus-resources-for-low-income-households
This one is making me think too much. I don’t like it.
I don’t like ToeDad very much.