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While it’s not great to leave folks hanging, it’s certainly fair to take time to evaluate ones own feelings before replying. Don’t push Joe, and don’t take _too_ long Joyce.
I’d rank that pretty high among “stereotypical responses an autistic person would have here” right alongside blurting out the need for a new menustral pad without context
Cured meats like bacon and probably some hams are. Not due to anything particular to pig meat but because of the high salt concentrations and the process by which cured meats are preserved can create cariogenic by products when cooked. I would do your own research if you are interested though, random internet stranger ‘True Survivor’ is not exactly a source you could put in a bibliography.
Oxygen is actually pretty nasty stuff, because it’s so reactive. When blue green algae evolved and started producing oxygen, the changes they made to the earth made anything we shaved apes have done look downright puny.
And you’re right, almost anything is toxic, carcinogenic or both in high enough doses. The important thing to ask is just how much exposure, measured by both dose and time, poses a significant risk. The quest for perfect safety is a fool’s errand, since there is no such thing.
‘s prolly our culinary prowess that accidentally turned pork into a fine meal rather than pigs evolving into tasty bacon and ham, and if you’re not convinced, try some raw pork, or shoddily seasoned pork, though i must warn you raw pork is almost guaranteed to give you a bad day.
This should say: Every day thousands of germans eat raw pork on breadrolls and are fine. Small but important distinction. Eating raw pork every day will likely kill you via obesity.
Why do you feel bad for Joe? She didn’t outright reject him and he knows all the stuff she has been dealing with lately. I think he understands Joyce needs some time. So nothing for Joe to be sad about there is still hope!
If she doesn’t like him, it is. If she wants time to reflect on her emotional and physical responses to him, in the new light of him (a) having feels for her, and (b) having had the courage to express them to her, because she does like him but hasn’t always known if she could trust or respect him, or if he would treat her with trust or respect – then taking a bit of time to sit with that information before deciding whether or not she’s open to seeing how things go, is perfectly reasonable and sensible. ESPECIALLY given the background of her move away from using fundie Christianity to define courting expectations, relationship roles, etc.
And she may want to talk to him about it too. Like, could he see things ending up in marriage? (Is marriage still something she wants?) If they ger serious would he have an expectation of pre-marital hanky panky – how MUCH? Like, snogging sessions or sex? Is he happy working on her schedule for moving towards that stuff? (Does she theoretically want to sleep with Joe?)
These are all SUCH important things to talk about!!!
Damn, i wish school systems would pause the regular curriculum between the age of 14 and 16, and instead of math and stuff, have ONLY social classes during that time: communication, conflict resolution, relationships, sexuality (including consent and boundaries), practical topics of growing up (everything from “how to clean stains“ via “how to fix a bike“ to “how to do your taxes“). Everything they’ll need in life way more than they need advanced math, during a time period when it would be great if they got to focus on puberty and social interactions.
Because we really need to raise people to be more competent in these topics!
Raises the question, though: who’s going to teach those classes? As in, where do we find enough “qualified adults” (people who actually have their shit together)? Hell, do they even exist?
This would only be a start compared to what you’re talking about, but a lot of Unitarian Universalist as well as United Church of Christ churches offer a great, very thorough, thoughtful, and progressive sexuality curriculum called Our Whole Lives. Often, they make the classes available to non-church members as well. There’s also different versions for different ages, from First Grade to Older Adult.
We don’t have enough people that actually understand mathematics now and you want to kill it just at the point some people can move on beyond arithmetic and basic geometry.
That’s a hell of an intentional misread*, Clif, considering Felian explicitly said the regular curriculum should “pause” and not end entirely as well as explicitly pointing out that the upper level mathematics courses a lot of high schools (including the very conservative one I attended) will push students to take that do jack shit for day-to-day living.
I’ve used my calculus classes exactly zero times outside school, sure would have been way more helpful to have a better understanding of civics.
*: I’ve seen this sort of stuff from you before, though, which is why I normally ignore your drivel. Thought this one stood out, though.
This is such a good comment! I disagree with some of the assertions below that this is an out-of-nowhere surprise to Joyce—she has absolutely suspected he might have some lingering interest in her in the past, he just wouldn’t talk about it when she tried to broach the subject—but an actual confirmation, Joe coming out and admitting he likes her romantically, is still a big deal. And even if she reciprocates (she clearly does, she ain’t subtle at least not to the audience) there are lots of legit things to factor in while she’s thinking about actually pursuing a real relationship here. I think that is refreshingly sane and mature of her.
Obviously I don’t know your real life situation or what was going on with the girl you liked, and whether or not she was avoiding having an awkward conversation at the cost of your continued pain or not (or whether she had experienced guys turning violent towards her when she rejected them outright in the past, making that situation highly stressful for her going forwards), or whether she was also in the process of redefining her entire perspective on morality in the same way Joyce is – it sucks you got hurt either way. But it doesn’t mean that taking time to think things over is inherently unreasonable.
I’m sorry that happened to you. In my opinion, a year is far too long to leave something like that hanging, and it sounds like she didn’t even give you a response then either.
If this lasts longer than a week (their time), I will probably start feeling bad for Joe. Right now, I’m happy Joe put his feelings out there. I’m not actually sure what Joe would do if Joyce reciprocated right away.
a potential partner once told me that they’d have pulled back their interest in pursuing a serious relationship if i had immediately said yes. They appreciated that i said it’ll take more time to figure out what i want and need, rather than following a default system.
No u-hauling in my life anymore!
He didn’t get a “yes”, but she also didn’t give him a “no”.
After that class, he’s probably reasonably sure what her answer is. Giving her the space and agency to reply on her own terms is the right thing to do.
I get the sentiment, it’s a good sentiment with lots of truth and such, but as far as we know Joyce is a woman, more specifically a woman who Joe is currently talking to in this particular moment. We don’t know for sure whether he’d be comfortable talking about periods with non-woman period havers, although I certainly would like to assume he’s not Weird Like That.
It took me a couple of re-reads to figure out what she meant. (Somehow the Joe/Joyce storyline had made me for get the “Joyce’s medical problem” storyline)
also, idk how exactly the pill works (has she started taking it now?), but some types of bc will also mess up your period until your body gets used to it!
It’s been a really long week in our time.
I think she first showed signs of the cramps in Trial and Sarah, which was Sunday. I might have missed something the day before. It’s now Tuesday and 10 months of real time later. (There was the flashback to Halloween in there to stretch it out.)
Really disappointed by everyone saying it’s okay because it’s Joe or it’s okay because they’re friends, instead of it being okay because it is a normal fucking bodily function and she should be able to say she needs a new pad as easily as she should be able to say she needs to pee.
And seriously,”that”? What are you 12? It’s a period. She’s menstruating. These aren’t naughty words or shameful secrets, JFC.
Nobody’s treating her period as a Joke/friends-only abnormality + Slartibeast seems to be commenting on Joyce’s historical prudishness about bodily functions + the asterisk was obviously for emphasis , not treating “period” as a naughty word + the age thing wasn’t called for + L + Ratio + touch grass. Learn to read.
–That’s (How Much I Feel) Feel For You Baby
(How much I need) I need your touch
(How much I live)–I live for your lo~ovin’!
That’s How Much! (That’s How Much!)…–Ambrosia
I would go with Amber she set it up also is likely to have the most positive reaction in that she writes a erotic thriller. Maybe Dotty she knows Joe from high school so she may not react horribly. Maybe Sal can’t thing of a good reason why or why not. Maybe Dina she might give a positive affirmation or neutral one at best.
Not Becky,Not Sarah,Not Ruth,Not Jenifer definitely not Walky
I feel like Dorothy knowing Joe from high school may actually make it worse. Like, on one level she knows he’s not the same guy he was then, or even the same guy he was last semester, but…
Danny might be good for the same reasons, but that would involve her remembering Danny exists.
I’ve been assuming she was going to keep this a secret for the next while, and that anyone who finds out will do so quite by accident. Although I could see Dorothy being reasonable about this.
considering Joe’s persona non grata still around the bulk of the female campus, I can see dotty going full smothering mother bear and causing a ruckus.
Gosh, I hope not! It would not say good things about the current state of her and Joyce’s relationship if she did that. I mean, it’s certainly possible; Dorothy’s been doing a lot of assuming, rather than listening, with Joyce lately. But what I would hope for would be for Dorothy to be willing to listen to what Joyce has to say about Joe and how she feels about the idea of pursuing a relationship with Joe, and why. More in the vibe of their earlier relationship first semester, when Joyce and Dorothy were getting to know one another in the first place.
She knows that Joe has feelings, I think. She doesn’t know that Joyce knows this and kind of returns them, because that is literally brand new information.
joyce is being pretty chill about it if a bit teasing, imagine the shitstorm that would occur if it had been walky (i know they were together in other iterations but this walky and joyce prolly wouldn’t get together esp at this point lol)
Ah, so that’s how this storyline is going to fulfill its characters-in-misery quota. Contrasting the love blooming for Joyce with… whatever state Hank’s gonna be in if Joyce calls him.
I didn’t think of that. Yeah, that is likely to be tough reading, as poor Hanks had a rough go of it and I don’t really feel he deserves. Sure he has made some mistakes in his life (he obviously messed Joyce up a little) but never out of malice, and he his willing to learn from them as he tries his best to be a good and carrying father. That’s more than I can say for a lot of folks out there.
sarah knew over the break about joyce even tho they didn’t meet up (so i assume she texted her?) so maybe even if she directly didnt say “there is no god” she might’ve just been “i’m done with church now” and they left it at that/didn’t discuss it further
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hank was burned out on church. Remember, the entire congregation (including his soon-to-be-ex-wife) rallied behind freeing Toedead.
He’d probably agree with Joyce on taking a break from organized religion “for a while”, if she framed it that way.
assuming he’s had someone to talk to professionally or not, i’d hope he’d hold up, as an ‘older’ dentist i would not want that kinda job to be done by someone emotionally distracted depending on the procedure unless he’s taken some days off
tho they should be fine money wise even with a divorce and possibly alimony i don’t think it’s implied that it was a struggle putting the other siblings through college (unless they had help with the government or so, 2, maybe 3 kids i can understand but having like 5 or so seems like it’d be quite a nightmare to deal with financially even if they were well behaved [actually now iwonder if joyce’s mom has moved in with any of her brothers since instead of living on her own])
I don’t think there is a possibility that Joyce’s mom lives with one of her siblings – the oldest one is in India on a mission with his unknown wife, Jordan is not in good terms with both parents for reasons yet to be disclosed, Jocelyne tries to put a thick line between her personal life and her parents for a fear they won’t accept who she is. Is there any more of them I’m forgetting? Previous comments suggest five kids…
I mean, Jordan reasons for not talking with awful fundie parents is maybe not stated officially, but it’s not hard to deduce. I thought I add that for clarity of my response.
Carol and Hank have four children in the Dumbiverse: John, Jordan, Jocelyne, and Joyce. There were two more brothers in the old continuity.
As for current living arrangements, we can only speculate. Maybe Hank’s living with Jocelyne. Maybe he moved into one of the kids’ old bedrooms in the house. Maybe he’s living in a van down by the river. Maybe Carol moved in with one of her own siblings.
Is that a reference to something? For some reason it reminds me of the goofy- movie (the second one where Goofy fallows Max to college, gets into extreme skateboarding, and brings back Disco).
A question for anyone who might have an arts background…
What exactly does the professor/instructor do in the class? I didn’t see him go to Joe or Joyce and make suggestions for improvement, or give any sort of lecture beforehand emphasizing what they should be doing. (Admittedly the focus of the comic was on Joe/Joyce so they might not have shown anything like that for simplicity)
Usually you have a lecture prior where they talk about anatomy and such. The life drawing session can the same day or separate. And sometimes they’ll go around and advise. It really depends on the class.
Being a beginner class, I imagine they are practicing gesture drawing rather than full finished pieces, such as when he had them do the quick poses.
be interesting if there were teachers that could help practically too like networking/hooking you up with connections or at least, “join an art team/company that’s unionized” or so
Usually they do both, and it’s on a fluid way. Sometimes before sessions sometimes during sessions.
And teacher is used to not necessarily teach, you know? They rather teasing, provoking the students to go beyond what they know. Like Hyde, when he’s giving hints to Mary.
Oftentimes they will give you features or ideas to focus on. Like I’ve been told to focus on just blocking out lights and shadows or to do everything in one line. The kinds of exercises that guide your eye to see the subject in different ways.
They will teach and critique as well. Generally not on gesture drawings and most critiques or pointers are geared either towards some technical point or if you’re in a session where you’re taking a quick sketch and making a finished drawing by asking questions and making you think and consider the direction.
So, someone who is working full-time and taking 3-5 hours should pay for 17?
I’m not sure what year it is supposed to be in-comic, but if it’s recent enough, IU has gone to some sort of half-time/full-time tiered tuition model. So she may already be paying for enough hours to pick up an additional class.
The other question is workload.
And the OTHER other question: “what’s this I hear about you taking a class where you draw nekkid people???” Best to get out in front of that.
It depends on the school. Most (all?) state schools charge by class or credit hour. Some private schools have full time tuition for up to some number of classes. So at my undergrad you paid the same for 3-6 classes (4 was standard, 6 really unusual).
I think a lot of state schools have both options – a full time charge for basically however many classes you can fit it. Probably a top limit, but it’s one you don’t want to try to take. Or you can go part time and pay by the class/credit.
I’d much rather pay per course, honestly. In this economy, it’s downright wasteful to pay for time you’re not using, and it’s always good not to feed the vultures more than we need to.
Generally there’s what amounts to a bulk discount. If you’re taking a even a minimal full time class load, it’s cheaper to pay for that. If you’re taking a class or two part time, paying by the class is cheaper.
Being in a proper class/grading might help, though i wouldn’t be surprised if there was college students over the years that sat in more than they should’ve, or one person taking a class and having thorough notes or recording it and re-teaching it to a friend for free
Depending on how many credits she’s already taking, it may or may not come with a cost increase — I got charged extra whenever I went over 19 credits in a semester (full time was at least 12.) If she’s near that line, she should *definitely* ask the person paying the bill. If not, then I agree she shouldn’t need to ask before adding something extra.
Joyce’s agency is whether to accept or decline his feelings. Instead she chooses to be a dick about it and make a man who likes her so much that he made himself vulnerable to confess his feelings wait to find out how she feels. Not because she doesn’t know, but just to make him wait. It’s cruel and manipulative to do that to anybody. Either reciprocate or say you don’t feel the same way. Dont play with someone’s heart like that.
lol i’m much older than both of them and i’d be pretty flustered and prolly need a full 24 hours of space apart to process before answering whether or not they were ‘flirty’ with me in the past or blurt out the first thing on my head (tho as someone who’s been on the other side of unrequited love sometimes i wish i didn’t know if a friend/acquaintance liked me because it felt awkward that i couldn’t return their feelings and plus if we weren’t that close to begin with i’d prolly distance myself but this was way back when i was still a teen lol)
It did occur to me. Then I read it again and saw that she didn’t say she had tocthin about how she felt. He asked if she’d tell him how she felt and she said she think about it. i.e. think about telling him. She explicitly stated that she wanted to gloat about being the one in power in the social situation.
You seem to have such bad faith interpretations of Joyce on every strip for the last few days, and I’m not quite sure why that is. I could maybe understand you if these were two folks who don’t know each other that well, but Joyce and Joe are friends. They tease each other. Joe is smiling in the last panel because he knows she’s having fun with the situation, but he also knows she won’t leave him hanging for long and will respond to him. If you witnessed such cruel manipulation like you wrote about first hand, then I’m sorry you experienced such a thing, but I don’t believe this is the same situation.
No. If a woman doesn’t instantly and intensely reciprocate a man’s emotional output at an exact (unspecified) level, then clearly it’s another case of “females playing games”. [/SARCASM]
That’s not what they said though. Not by a long shot. They didn’t say “Joyce needs to say yes -now-“. They said, “Yes or no, either is acceptable. But making him wait while being non-committal is a bit rough.” I’m honestly inclined to agree.
Accept or Reject me if you want, but if I asked someone out, they teased me about it, and then just moved on as if it didn’t happen, which is what it looks like has basically occured here (She only says she’ll think about replying after he specifically asks her again), I at least would take that as a rejection. And kind of a bit of a ruder rejection.
If you’re going to say no, say no. That’s fine. If you want to think about it, then say that. Also valid. But don’t just say “I should ring my dad about this class. See you later”
“Joyce’s agency is whether to accept or decline his feelings.”
That implies NOW. Joyce’s agency is actually to do whatever she wants about his feelings. She is allowed to take her time, whether or not it is what Joe would prefer. No one is owed an immediate answer in any direction and it’s pretty shitty to demand one when someone is taking their time to consider.
If you view a lack of answer as a “no” then that’s probably for the best for you and whoever doesn’t answer you right away, since you seem incompatible with people who prefer to consider their feelings and thoughts rather than know exactly what they want and need right away. That’s alright, not everyone is compatible.
However, being incompatible with YOU (and with the misogynist above) doesn’t make someone “a dick” (direct quote from his post) for “[making] a man … wait to find out how she feels”. That’s the part people are jumping at, along with another direct quote from their post: “It’s cruel and manipulative to do that to anybody.”
Again, not saying yes or no right away IS NOT cruel and manipulative. It’s just not fun for the other person. That’s all.
To be fair, her last line about enjoying being on top of the situation does kind of push in the “cruel and manipulative” direction, in a way that “I need time to think about it” wouldn’t. (Cruel and manipulative aren’t the words I’d choose there though.)
It was a candid explanation of what she was thinking and feeling. That is the total opposite of cruel and manipulative. It’s about as open and honest as it gets, and it’s being painted otherwise because she didn’t tell a little white lie and leave that part out? Joe knows her, knows what she’s been through, and it’s her prerogative to tell him what she’s actually thinking if she wants.
Cruel and manipulative WERE the words chosen by the person I’m directly quoting, so I think I’m being perfectly fair, thanks.
On top of the communicative situation. As in she’s confident she’s not misunderstanding anything and can actually think about her feelings and not about guessing what his feelings are.
“On top” doesn’t always mean “a dominant position”. It can mean “fully informed”. The difference between, “On the top in this situation” and “on top of this situation”.
Maybe. As part of the response to him asking if she was going to tell him how she felt, I read it as much more of the “I’m enjoying keeping you in suspense.”
Which might be a bit manipulative, but falls into minor flaw, well within acceptable behavior. Kind of like the earlier teasing.
And I’m sure it’s covering up a deeper level of panic about how to handle this and if she can deal with it.
“A bit rough” could describe my morning constitutional if I’ve had too much salsa the night before. The phrase used was “cruel and manipulative”. Things mean things.
I never said she had to reciprocate. But she should have said one of three things. A: I feel the same. B: I dont feel the same. C: I’m not sure how I feel and need some time to consider. Instead she said she would think about letting him know how she feels because she was enjoying being the one with the power.
i mean, i wouldn’t be surprised if ‘teasing him/stringing him along’ to get boys to like you is some ‘tactic’ she learned from old movie tropes growing up but joyce’s teasing is more lighthearted rather than anything but she does have other things on her plate right now, but not as if joe’s gonna go anywhere
Taking time to think about it is good, from every angle. From Joe’s perspective, it’s not a no. It could have been, if she’d already thought about it. And if she discover she doesn’t want a relationship with him, the no will be done kindly. But it’s something she’s open to considering.
From Joyce’s perspective, she understands what’s going on. Joe has a romantic interest. Not as a sex object, like when they first met. He’s being clear and vulnerable. And compared to her other friends, he appreciates her for who she is and is becoming.
I get when readers dislike characters for making terrible youthful mistakes. I don’t always agree, but I see the basis for that. There will probably be some drama for that in the next chapter/day or two. But in this chapter/day, the Joyce and Joe interaction has been pretty great.
I’m sure plenty of people listen to all-male podcasts without being… Like that. Probably. I don’t listen to many podcasts, but I like to hope people are smarter.
I meant a very specific kind of all-male podcast, and I’m not under the impression that people can listen to misogyny in their spare time and not pick it up.
I’m not referring to Joyce’s behavior (which is playful and completely normal), I’m referring to the OP’s habit of posting the most insane bad faith takes of Joyce’s behavior in any strip that happens to feature both Joyce and Joe. I vaguely remember scolding this same person about some Joe-related bullshit in the past, but I can’t remember if it was in the context of an interaction with Joyce or Amber. This is why I am plainly asking if this person just does not like Joyce, or if they are a misogynist.
What on earth are you talking about? How can you not understand she might need some time? She had no idea about his feelings before now, and they have a slightly complicated history (friends now, sure, but remember their date?) Even if she 100% knows how she feels it’s very, very sensible to take some time to decide if acting on those feelings is the right move for her.
Yeah, she has been pretty snarky and definitely imperfect in her interactions with him (and a lot of others) lately, but explicitly telling someone you’re going to take some time to think about it is absolutely not one of those cases. Sure, if sbe’d been leading him on flirtatiously for weeks or something but she definitely hasn’t.
If the issue is with the wording of her explicitly saying that she likes having the power she has right now, then doesn’t her saying it negate some of that? Turn it in to a slightly flirty thing? She can definitely go up or down from here, but as of right now I don’t think she is being cruel.
I’m glad someone else said this. I felt the same way reading it. I don’t really like Joyce in general though so I though it was my own bias. Like…I’m rooting for her growth that she seems to be in right now …but I think she is completely self absorbed. Everything is about her. Including this interaction. Like if you actually don’t know just say that (maybe with some kindness) rather than gloating about your place of power over someone who is vulnerable.
And before you say this is an ASD thing: this is not an ASD thing. If it was she would be straight forward about what she felt about him even if that feeling was “I don’t know I have to think about it”. This is something else. This is a scared and insecure person (perhaps bc a lot of her understanding of herself and the world has recently been shaken up–which is admittedly really hard) stepping on someone else to regain a sense of power she lost by that shake up. Being shaken isn’t the issue here. What she is doing with it–power grabbing from joe– is.
100% I was going to reply to them but all that came to mind was “Oh fuck off.” over and over again, so I’ll just agree with you instead, and flag their comment.
Yeah same, I’m flabbergasted people have that take of thinking that of joyce rn, especially based on this comic? Like wow I really hope they don’t have partners
*points to information processing which is a very big difference in autistic brains*
I had a spontaneous date with a potential play friend on Halloween. She told me she felt romantic vibes. I froze and just ignored the comment all night. Took me a week to figure out how I felt and wanted.
Plus *knowing* what you feel is a particular skill that not everyone has in equal amounts.
To clarify, it doesn’t have to be an autistic thing. “Sleep on it” is pretty sound advice for anyone when it comes to big decisions (especially when you’re on your period imo)
But I think it’s funny that you went “don’t say it’s asd” when slower information processing, decision making, interoception (and general executive functioning) characterise autism.
So, here’s the thing. You’re a raging misogynist who needs to work on yourself, not someone who needs to keep venting your not-at-all-veiled demands for women to be calm, kind, sweet, subservient and lacking in opinions of their own.
There is NOTHING wrong with not answering a question right away if you need to think. If someone asks me a question and then immediately demands an answer or pouts when I’m considering it, the answer becomes a “no” because I’m allowed my own agency without being guilt tripped for it.
I won’t be interacting with you further other than to flag your shitty takes and move on. I hope you grow and get over yourself.
1. I truly honestly did not expect Willis to continue the Joe/Joyce storyline immediately following yesterday’s strip. I accepted checking up on Becky or someone else. The Willis keeps giving and the more he gives the more anxious I get for the day he takes.
2. It speaks volumes on how comfortable Joyce is with Joe to so casually drop that she needs to change pads. I know she already told him about the birth control but this feels more deliberate. This would never happen between them in first semester.
3. Joe’s smile in the last panel!! He recognizes her teasing, he is not frustrated. He is stuttering of course, he put himself out there and is waiting for her response, but he is comfortable with Joyce and knows she will respond in due time. The last panel (the whole strip really!) is a wonderful portrayal of their friendship and how much it has evolved from the very beginning.
I really hope Dorothy didn’t give up on her application to the other Uni only for Joyce to suddenly have no time for or interest in her company, that would be rough.
Well, I say I hope it doesn’t happen; it’s a comic, and honestly that would be a realistic life choice and consequence and a real test of character.
Not only that, but it’s fairly clear from Joyce’s behaviour what her answer is. She didn’t turn suddenly cold or defensive, which is what people who are not interested typically do. So on a subconscious level, I think Joe already knows Joyce’s answer.
Of course, this is assuming Joe has experience with reading emotional tells from others. XD
So, what I’m taking from this page, as someone with a period and someone who’s had friends confess feelings to me:
-Joyce has never before now contextualized Joe as someone who could be a serious romantic interest. To me, she still hasn’t been contextualizing him that way throughout their interactions since his confession. He did go in soft, which is good and was the only landscape she wouldn’t just probably flee. Him confessing was as she said, her first instance of seeing him as a complex, deep human with human feelings. Before this he was just a moderately objectionable horndog she had developed a level of camaraderie with.
-She’s on her period. Her body and hormones are crazy right now, especially as her periods are particularly bad. It’s hard to Have Those Feelings and to process them. to me her mentioning the pad is meant to be a tell that this conversation should take place a bit later, maybe some days or even weeks in the future when she knows she’s going to be able to give both their feelings the attention required.
-it’s not impossible that with time she’d at least be willing to give it a try, but even if she’s an atheist now, she is unlikely to be comfortable with possibly anything more sexual than handholding and mouth-closed kisses, and particularly with joe where she knows he is a lot more experienced with sex than her and likely has heavier base expectations than her. This could be good growth for both of them, help her loosen the hold religious upbringing and recent attempted date rape trauma have had on her, and help joe learn to take it slow and appreciate things from a romantic partnership perspective. I think his interest in her shows a willingness to explore a non-sexual realm with another person, really, and that’s great.
All in all, I love how little has been said but how much has been conveyed in these last few comics, extremely relatable and real.
I’ll need to go back and read the start of their acquaintance, but I do recall they went on a date with mike as a chaperone and she became quite disgusted with him as a result of that date, so I suppose “never” is a bit extreme – rather, I think I mean “Joe the friend and person Joyce has known a while now”, while the date was with an actual stranger she was interested in trying, possibly based on harmful religion-based gender stereotypes causing her to prioritize finding her future husband ASAP? I know she had a round of that, I just need to confirm beyond my spotty memory whether she initiated or had vested interest in the first date with Joe, or not at all.
For that last point, Joyce gets horny. If they do get together and Joe doesn’t push in a way that scares her off, they’ll likely move past handholding and chaste kisses pretty quickly.
She practically threw herself at Ethan once, while they were dating.
I think she’s seen him as a complex deep human with feelings before, and has been disappointed that he hasn’t seen himself that way. Usually he wears a horndog mask, and she’s called attention to that.
I agree that she probably hasn’t seriously thought about him romantically. If they do start a relationship, the physical intimacy is probably going to be a source of drama. They’re both adjusting out of old attitudes towards sex.
Anyways, thinking about an episode of Taxi, where the Joe-like character (learning to combine romantic and sexual attraction) was Louis dePalma (Danny Divito).
“I need a new pad” … thinking back about 40 years when my wife was on the pill, there were months that she didn’t actually bleed, due to the pill. Don’t know whether the same effects happen these days, but heaven help us all when she finds she is “late” and is still a virgin…
As much as I enjoy Joe and Joyce, I have a strong suspicion they will just be friends. From a character development perspective I think it’s actually more interesting for Joe to be rejected by Joyce and have to grapple with that. Joyce is attracted to Joe physically but their relationship feels mostly platonic.
We also can’t forget that these characters are very young and parts of their personalities remain undeveloped.
As a writer myself I also feel that a strong friendship between cis men and women is more radical and meaningful today than romance.
This is just warm and nice. Joyce looks so happy and Joe too. They like each other for sure, dunno if this can be the beginning of a great love story, but seeing them happy after all the bad situation of their life is beautiful.
Did anyone consider how Joyce and Walky are approaching their comic strips?
Joyce has decided to ‘jump in’ to the art world… she’s planning on taking an extra course to help improve the quality of her comic strip. (Plus she has years of the strip planned out)
Meanwhile walky came up with a bunch of merchandising opportunities…. and that’s about it. (Has he even written any more than the first few strips that he showed in the interview?)
We don’t really know one way or the other unless it’s been covered in the patreon strips or something. I guess the question here is if the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence, or if it’s just not been relevant for the time being so we didn’t see it happen.
Joyce needs an Apartment where she can further control her own life. She wants a scenario where she can call Joe for a Booty Call, and it’s nobody’s fucking business.
Dotty thinks she’s helping, but Joyce has never had Independence. Dotty is setting up to be her new Mother, and that is not what she needs. She’s in a cage, with only a slight taste of what Freedom even is.
She also needs Joe to teach her that every Man is not the asshole from the party.
So I’m a long time reader who hasn’t commented in a few years now but I am totally shocked how many people are painting Joyce in such a negative light. Like have they not been reading the same webcomic I have for all these years? Hello Joyce has gone through so much trauma in a very short amount of time give her a break! She has ever right to take it slow and process her feelings about this especially with all the changes she has been making in her life. Just ease up on her a little bit she a human after all a trauma filled messed up human but a human none the less!
It’s really just a few (objectively wrong) people, who seem to be getting plenty of pushback for it. The risks of having a public comments section, unfortunately.
I just really don’t understand it and it’s honestly super disappointing. Sure these are just webcomic characters but jeez people can’t them some slack especially our cinnamon bun Joyce! -_-
Joyce is smiling. Joe loves her smile. They’re the best thing to happen to each other since they arrived at uni. That’s plenty for today. Both are looking forward to tomorrow.
Awwww! Those smiles! Joyce is so happy right now! And Joe seems cool with the honest answer of “I don’t have an answer for you tonight, but I’ll get back to you.”
I appreciate that they’re not rushing into anything. For all that I have no doubts that Joyce is into him, and even knowing that Joyce *suspected* Joe might have softer feelings towards her (that he literally ran away from every time she tried to bring it up with him), this is still new information for her to process! She deserves some time to think about what she does or doesn’t want to do with those feelings right now.
And honestly, “thank you for telling me about this, this makes me happy and it’s not unwelcome, and maybe I feel the same way, but I’m also not ready to act on these feelings” would be an okay outcome here! Joyce has got a LOT going on. One of the reasons I’m rooting for these two is that Joe has become such a source of support in her life, being one of the few people she can talk to who just listens to her, and accepts that she’s going through a time of intense, stressful, life-upending change, and that’s really beautiful! But if they start a relationship right now, Joe is going to become part of the A Lot that Joyce has going on.
(But if she does decide to go for it…this is a pretty good start for them! Actual honest communication and appreciation for the emotional stakes here for both of them.)
So I’m wondering if part of the split in the comments is between those who either assess all their friendships/acquaintanceships so would instantly be able to tell you if it’d be a yes or a no to a non-platonic relationship/those who don’t need to think about this sort of thing because for them its a completely hormonal decision – and those who consider several dimensions of feeling and compatibility, and weigh up what it would mean for the existing connection to change the parameters?
Like, almost half my lifetime ago now, I let a friend know I like-liked him and hardly ever feel like that about people. He said he was flattered and I gave him time and space to think about it. It was then about 3.5 months before we saw each other in person… We kissed a bit that night and spoke about it properly on the morning. We’re now married and have 3 kids together.
We’d been friends for 2 years before it occurred to me I might like-like him. Rushing him to work out how he felt would have felt rude… (I have since discovered I am most likely demisexual/sapiosexual, hence the hardly ever like-liking people, needing to know them well first, etc, but since that was my normal, it didn’t occur to me he might know how he felt OK and mainly just need opportunity to act on feels, rather than time to think about feels…)
I’m glad it worked out for you two. Yeah, I’ve been in similar situations.
I think it’s also complicated by the fact that Joyce has tried to talk to him about his feelings towards her in the past, like asking if her being the only Zero on his list was because she hurt him, or questioning why he was so sure she COULD steal Jacob, and he always would bail or some distraction would occur, so I don’t think she’s surprised by the admission so much as that he’s admitting it at all. I do think she’s proud of him for that leap, as well as being someone who she feels his acceptance of her hasn’t been reevaluated at all due to her possible autism.
I’ve had many relationships both serious and casual and experienced some prolonged periods of gradually developing feelings and some more circumspect with an immediate attraction.
A large part of our culture is based on a desire for immediate satisfaction. We romanticize the immediate attraction, even when we know it could cause problems (sometimes especially). This was featured quite prominently in the Joyce/Jacob arc. Perhaps with Joyce and Joe we’ll see another side of Joyce, which has the added benefit of Joe developing into a more patient person.
It’s nice that Joe is so happy to go at Joyce’s pace for all of this, especially considering how her morning started with her other friends and the tiff with Dorothy lol.
ok, let’s talk about the other important plot point here. Joyce can just walk up to a class and try it, then sign up later? I’m in college right now, and it’s the opposite for us- sign up first, drop it if you don’t enjoy it, otherwise it WILL fill
In my experience (college comparable to IU), it depends on the course. Like, in my senior year, there were two sections of this one course I needed to graduate. I signed up for the one that fit best with my schedule, but there were a lot of my classmates in another course who had that professor and didn’t like her/chose the other section to not have her. After the first week, they were saying they really liked the instructor of the other section, and I wasn’t sure about the one I was in. So, I showed up to a class, told the instructor I was thinking of switching and asked if I could sit it, did so, and ended up switching.
Lots of classes, at least where I’m from, will let someone sit in (like when Mike walked into gender studies). As long as you’re not distracting from the class or taking the prof’s time away from paying students, it’s not a big deal (though if you show up all the time, you should probably be officially auditing the class).
In an art class there’s the issue of materials and also places to sit, so Joyce probably can’t just keep showing up for the rest of this term.
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“How do I feel? I feel with my hands!”
“um”
How was that line not part of the first episode of Animaniacs?
While it’s not great to leave folks hanging, it’s certainly fair to take time to evaluate ones own feelings before replying. Don’t push Joe, and don’t take _too_ long Joyce.
I’d rank that pretty high among “stereotypical responses an autistic person would have here” right alongside blurting out the need for a new menustral pad without context
Well, it *wasn’t* part of my set of standard responses…
Haaaaaaam!!!!!
If the term “guilty pleasure” where to take on mortal form, it would be a pig. Wonderfully intelligent, deeply emotional, fantastically delicious.
Also, mildly carcinogenic, but I guess they deserve their painful piggy revenge.
pigs are mildly carcinogenic??
Cured meats like bacon and probably some hams are. Not due to anything particular to pig meat but because of the high salt concentrations and the process by which cured meats are preserved can create cariogenic by products when cooked. I would do your own research if you are interested though, random internet stranger ‘True Survivor’ is not exactly a source you could put in a bibliography.
Eh, the nitrates in cured meats are actually less dangerous than the fats and sugars.
So what? Ain’t none of us gonna get off this planet alive, so enjoy it while you can.
Speak for yourself! *gets in a rocket, which promptly plumments into the everglades*
…
Hey, at least you got _off_ the planet alive. You just came back to die. Promptly.
Just draw the line at long pork.
I’d ask why, but yeah, the shit those things eat is *nasty*.
Sugar isn’t dangerous unless you have diabetes…?
Tell that to my thighs.
Yeah, but is really anything that isn’t carcinogenic
Im pretty sure oxygen has carcinogenic properties depending on how you want to look at it
Here, this explains it well
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/bacon-is-literally-cancer
Oxygen is actually pretty nasty stuff, because it’s so reactive. When blue green algae evolved and started producing oxygen, the changes they made to the earth made anything we shaved apes have done look downright puny.
And you’re right, almost anything is toxic, carcinogenic or both in high enough doses. The important thing to ask is just how much exposure, measured by both dose and time, poses a significant risk. The quest for perfect safety is a fool’s errand, since there is no such thing.
Cancer is what (currently) gets you if nothing else does first.
Live long enough and eventually you will get a lethal replication error.
If pigs wanted me to feel guilty about eating them, they shouldn’t have evolved to be so fucking tasty.
‘s prolly our culinary prowess that accidentally turned pork into a fine meal rather than pigs evolving into tasty bacon and ham, and if you’re not convinced, try some raw pork, or shoddily seasoned pork, though i must warn you raw pork is almost guaranteed to give you a bad day.
Only if your food is not fresh, tightly controlled and healthy, thousands of Germans eat raw pork on breadrolls every day and are fine.
This should say: Every day thousands of germans eat raw pork on breadrolls and are fine. Small but important distinction. Eating raw pork every day will likely kill you via obesity.
P.S.: Google “Mettbrötchen”
In fairness, modern domestic hogs are largely the result of unnatural selection.
Everything has microplastics in it now, anyway.
Pork is gross, goat is the one true red meat
(White meat and seafood all the way tho)
Goat’s pretty good, if you can get it Most “goat” I’ve had was just beef seasoned funny, which should honestly be a crime. Deer ain’t bad, either.
[Invader Zim] There’s that ham, again! [/Zim]
I think we have plenty of ham around here already.
oh she’s enjoying being on top, huh
beat me to it.
dammit me too >:T
I could totally see her becoming a power top lol.
Writes that down.
I tried to make this joke on Patreon and someone ruined it with “BuT dOrOtHy.”
that last panel is a nice ambiguous joe face
Yeah, all went well when you confess and the girl ask for a time.
She can do anything she want, but the pain still cross your heart for a millisecond
When this happened to me, I gave my girl like a year before I finally moved on. I feel badly for Joe right now.
Why do you feel bad for Joe? She didn’t outright reject him and he knows all the stuff she has been dealing with lately. I think he understands Joyce needs some time. So nothing for Joe to be sad about there is still hope!
Yes, and the girl I pined after didn’t outright reject me either. Doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt just as bad. And for longer.
Best to rip off that band-aid
If she doesn’t like him, it is. If she wants time to reflect on her emotional and physical responses to him, in the new light of him (a) having feels for her, and (b) having had the courage to express them to her, because she does like him but hasn’t always known if she could trust or respect him, or if he would treat her with trust or respect – then taking a bit of time to sit with that information before deciding whether or not she’s open to seeing how things go, is perfectly reasonable and sensible. ESPECIALLY given the background of her move away from using fundie Christianity to define courting expectations, relationship roles, etc.
And she may want to talk to him about it too. Like, could he see things ending up in marriage? (Is marriage still something she wants?) If they ger serious would he have an expectation of pre-marital hanky panky – how MUCH? Like, snogging sessions or sex? Is he happy working on her schedule for moving towards that stuff? (Does she theoretically want to sleep with Joe?)
These are all SUCH important things to talk about!!!
Damn, i wish school systems would pause the regular curriculum between the age of 14 and 16, and instead of math and stuff, have ONLY social classes during that time: communication, conflict resolution, relationships, sexuality (including consent and boundaries), practical topics of growing up (everything from “how to clean stains“ via “how to fix a bike“ to “how to do your taxes“). Everything they’ll need in life way more than they need advanced math, during a time period when it would be great if they got to focus on puberty and social interactions.
Because we really need to raise people to be more competent in these topics!
Raises the question, though: who’s going to teach those classes? As in, where do we find enough “qualified adults” (people who actually have their shit together)? Hell, do they even exist?
This would only be a start compared to what you’re talking about, but a lot of Unitarian Universalist as well as United Church of Christ churches offer a great, very thorough, thoughtful, and progressive sexuality curriculum called Our Whole Lives. Often, they make the classes available to non-church members as well. There’s also different versions for different ages, from First Grade to Older Adult.
We don’t have enough people that actually understand mathematics now and you want to kill it just at the point some people can move on beyond arithmetic and basic geometry.
That’s a hell of an intentional misread*, Clif, considering Felian explicitly said the regular curriculum should “pause” and not end entirely as well as explicitly pointing out that the upper level mathematics courses a lot of high schools (including the very conservative one I attended) will push students to take that do jack shit for day-to-day living.
I’ve used my calculus classes exactly zero times outside school, sure would have been way more helpful to have a better understanding of civics.
*: I’ve seen this sort of stuff from you before, though, which is why I normally ignore your drivel. Thought this one stood out, though.
This is such a good comment! I disagree with some of the assertions below that this is an out-of-nowhere surprise to Joyce—she has absolutely suspected he might have some lingering interest in her in the past, he just wouldn’t talk about it when she tried to broach the subject—but an actual confirmation, Joe coming out and admitting he likes her romantically, is still a big deal. And even if she reciprocates (she clearly does, she ain’t subtle at least not to the audience) there are lots of legit things to factor in while she’s thinking about actually pursuing a real relationship here. I think that is refreshingly sane and mature of her.
Obviously I don’t know your real life situation or what was going on with the girl you liked, and whether or not she was avoiding having an awkward conversation at the cost of your continued pain or not (or whether she had experienced guys turning violent towards her when she rejected them outright in the past, making that situation highly stressful for her going forwards), or whether she was also in the process of redefining her entire perspective on morality in the same way Joyce is – it sucks you got hurt either way. But it doesn’t mean that taking time to think things over is inherently unreasonable.
I’m sorry that happened to you. In my opinion, a year is far too long to leave something like that hanging, and it sounds like she didn’t even give you a response then either.
If this lasts longer than a week (their time), I will probably start feeling bad for Joe. Right now, I’m happy Joe put his feelings out there. I’m not actually sure what Joe would do if Joyce reciprocated right away.
a potential partner once told me that they’d have pulled back their interest in pursuing a serious relationship if i had immediately said yes. They appreciated that i said it’ll take more time to figure out what i want and need, rather than following a default system.
No u-hauling in my life anymore!
wait, so their offer of such a relationship was actually a trick question, where a “yes” answer would be disqualifying? that’s kind of bullshit, IMO.
Concur.
You know, actually, I can’t blame Joyce for that. Enjoy that agency while you can, honey!
Sorry, Joe.
I think he’s still kinda smiling
He didn’t get a “yes”, but she also didn’t give him a “no”.
After that class, he’s probably reasonably sure what her answer is. Giving her the space and agency to reply on her own terms is the right thing to do.
At the very least, he can now be pretty sure that whatever her answer is, they’ll still be friends.
Ah yeah… that feel.
Joe, love ya, but maybe give Joyce a chance to visit a restroom before pressing for answers?
Wait? “I need a new pad.” She is talking about *that*, with a man? Joyce?
They are friends.
Also, Joe seems like the kind of guy who is comfortable talking about womens’ body functions.
*the body functions of period havers
I get the sentiment, it’s a good sentiment with lots of truth and such, but as far as we know Joyce is a woman, more specifically a woman who Joe is currently talking to in this particular moment. We don’t know for sure whether he’d be comfortable talking about periods with non-woman period havers, although I certainly would like to assume he’s not Weird Like That.
Lady friends have less trouble telling me about it than I do hearing about it.
I mean, I’m not the one who brings it up.
I am a little slow on the uptake sometimes…
It took me a couple of re-reads to figure out what she meant. (Somehow the Joe/Joyce storyline had made me for get the “Joyce’s medical problem” storyline)
Either she’s had a really long week or she’s got a really long period (which, yeah, doesn’t seem unlikely given the other problems).
also, idk how exactly the pill works (has she started taking it now?), but some types of bc will also mess up your period until your body gets used to it!
It’s been a really long week in our time.
I think she first showed signs of the cramps in Trial and Sarah, which was Sunday. I might have missed something the day before. It’s now Tuesday and 10 months of real time later. (There was the flashback to Halloween in there to stretch it out.)
I kept thinking maybe some time had passed and it was like next Tuesday or something. Apparently not! Thanks for keeping track and sharing.
Still a very long week for her and even longer for us!
“that” in scare quotes..
What do you want to happen, exactly?
No, it is inside asterisks, not scare quotes.
Really disappointed by everyone saying it’s okay because it’s Joe or it’s okay because they’re friends, instead of it being okay because it is a normal fucking bodily function and she should be able to say she needs a new pad as easily as she should be able to say she needs to pee.
And seriously,”that”? What are you 12? It’s a period. She’s menstruating. These aren’t naughty words or shameful secrets, JFC.
I guess an *asterisk* (for emphasis) does look a bit like a “quotation mark” (for euphemisms). They’re not the same thing though.
Nobody’s treating her period as a Joke/friends-only abnormality + Slartibeast seems to be commenting on Joyce’s historical prudishness about bodily functions + the asterisk was obviously for emphasis , not treating “period” as a naughty word + the age thing wasn’t called for + L + Ratio + touch grass. Learn to read.
No, no, they are right I am motivated only by my BOUNDLESS EVIL FOR EVIL’S SAKE. I’m busted.
–That’s (How Much I Feel) Feel For You Baby
(How much I need) I need your touch
(How much I live)–I live for your lo~ovin’!
That’s How Much! (That’s How Much!)…–Ambrosia
Oh god, yes, pad first, talk later.
Later will be at Joyce’s discretion
Who’s she going to tell first? Oh god, Sarah is NOT going to be pleased.
Depends how she phrases it.
“I hold the emotions of a boy in my hands, and can crush the life out of them at a whim.”
“Neat!”
“Is it possible to… learn this power?”
“Not that I’m planning on doing just that, I think I actually like him.”
“Dammit!”
I would go with Amber she set it up also is likely to have the most positive reaction in that she writes a erotic thriller. Maybe Dotty she knows Joe from high school so she may not react horribly. Maybe Sal can’t thing of a good reason why or why not. Maybe Dina she might give a positive affirmation or neutral one at best.
Not Becky,Not Sarah,Not Ruth,Not Jenifer definitely not Walky
I feel like Dorothy knowing Joe from high school may actually make it worse. Like, on one level she knows he’s not the same guy he was then, or even the same guy he was last semester, but…
Danny might be good for the same reasons, but that would involve her remembering Danny exists.
There’s also the whole “Dorothy recognized Joe in a sex tape” thing that probably doesn’t help, either.
I’ve been assuming she was going to keep this a secret for the next while, and that anyone who finds out will do so quite by accident. Although I could see Dorothy being reasonable about this.
considering Joe’s persona non grata still around the bulk of the female campus, I can see dotty going full smothering mother bear and causing a ruckus.
Gosh, I hope not! It would not say good things about the current state of her and Joyce’s relationship if she did that. I mean, it’s certainly possible; Dorothy’s been doing a lot of assuming, rather than listening, with Joyce lately. But what I would hope for would be for Dorothy to be willing to listen to what Joyce has to say about Joe and how she feels about the idea of pursuing a relationship with Joe, and why. More in the vibe of their earlier relationship first semester, when Joyce and Dorothy were getting to know one another in the first place.
Doesn’t Sarah already know this – from Hate Sink aka Joe?
She knows that Joe has feelings, I think. She doesn’t know that Joyce knows this and kind of returns them, because that is literally brand new information.
She knows that Joe thinks Joyce is attractive, but I don’t think she knows Joe ‘like-likes’ her.
Sudden talking to Sarah can be risky, because she received THIS information.
FINALLY I AM VICTORIOUS!!!
*finishes F-Zero on Switch SNES Online just to play Ending Theme on the Switch OLED built-in speakers*
Is that Brun?
Their Gravatar? That’s Liz, Sarah’s half-sister.
Joe’s smiles in the last two panels are incredibly cute.
Lol. Joe deserves this. Mainly because dating Joyce seems very likely so it’s okay for him to suffer a little first.
No pain no gain
joyce is being pretty chill about it if a bit teasing, imagine the shitstorm that would occur if it had been walky (i know they were together in other iterations but this walky and joyce prolly wouldn’t get together esp at this point lol)
“Gotta ask my dad first.”
Ah, so that’s how this storyline is going to fulfill its characters-in-misery quota. Contrasting the love blooming for Joyce with… whatever state Hank’s gonna be in if Joyce calls him.
I didn’t think of that. Yeah, that is likely to be tough reading, as poor Hanks had a rough go of it and I don’t really feel he deserves. Sure he has made some mistakes in his life (he obviously messed Joyce up a little) but never out of malice, and he his willing to learn from them as he tries his best to be a good and carrying father. That’s more than I can say for a lot of folks out there.
Does Hank know that she has gone all they over to full-fledged militant atheism?
“all the way over”
sarah knew over the break about joyce even tho they didn’t meet up (so i assume she texted her?) so maybe even if she directly didnt say “there is no god” she might’ve just been “i’m done with church now” and they left it at that/didn’t discuss it further
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Hank was burned out on church. Remember, the entire congregation (including his soon-to-be-ex-wife) rallied behind freeing Toedead.
He’d probably agree with Joyce on taking a break from organized religion “for a while”, if she framed it that way.
assuming he’s had someone to talk to professionally or not, i’d hope he’d hold up, as an ‘older’ dentist i would not want that kinda job to be done by someone emotionally distracted depending on the procedure unless he’s taken some days off
tho they should be fine money wise even with a divorce and possibly alimony i don’t think it’s implied that it was a struggle putting the other siblings through college (unless they had help with the government or so, 2, maybe 3 kids i can understand but having like 5 or so seems like it’d be quite a nightmare to deal with financially even if they were well behaved [actually now iwonder if joyce’s mom has moved in with any of her brothers since instead of living on her own])
I don’t think there is a possibility that Joyce’s mom lives with one of her siblings – the oldest one is in India on a mission with his unknown wife, Jordan is not in good terms with both parents for reasons yet to be disclosed, Jocelyne tries to put a thick line between her personal life and her parents for a fear they won’t accept who she is. Is there any more of them I’m forgetting? Previous comments suggest five kids…
I mean, Jordan reasons for not talking with awful fundie parents is maybe not stated officially, but it’s not hard to deduce. I thought I add that for clarity of my response.
What have you deduced the Jordan situation is?
Carol and Hank have four children in the Dumbiverse: John, Jordan, Jocelyne, and Joyce. There were two more brothers in the old continuity.
As for current living arrangements, we can only speculate. Maybe Hank’s living with Jocelyne. Maybe he moved into one of the kids’ old bedrooms in the house. Maybe he’s living in a van down by the river. Maybe Carol moved in with one of her own siblings.
Yes, yes, Joyce. You have firmly established that you like to be on top.
But is Joe so love-struck that he’ll miss that chance to make a dirty joke?
Hank: Bad news, Joyce. I was fired from the cracker factory by your grandfather. I now sleep in a racing car.
Is that a reference to something? For some reason it reminds me of the goofy- movie (the second one where Goofy fallows Max to college, gets into extreme skateboarding, and brings back Disco).
Its a refrenxe to the Simpsons about Milhouse’s Dad Kurt from episode 6 season 8 “A Millhoize Divided”
“Can you burrow me a feeling”
*”Can I burrow a feeling”
Simpsons I think
it’s a reference to the Simpsons episode where Kirk gets fired for getting divorced
https://youtu.be/5Le4sGUeXTk
Yes, I’m wondering if poor Hank’s situation is extra bad because his entire community will side with his wife.
Being as they’re all terrorists.
Complete aside: Hoonigan wrapped a Little Tikes race car bed around a go-kart frame and the results are hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31tZZNiSAkg
wow.
A question for anyone who might have an arts background…
What exactly does the professor/instructor do in the class? I didn’t see him go to Joe or Joyce and make suggestions for improvement, or give any sort of lecture beforehand emphasizing what they should be doing. (Admittedly the focus of the comic was on Joe/Joyce so they might not have shown anything like that for simplicity)
Usually you have a lecture prior where they talk about anatomy and such. The life drawing session can the same day or separate. And sometimes they’ll go around and advise. It really depends on the class.
Being a beginner class, I imagine they are practicing gesture drawing rather than full finished pieces, such as when he had them do the quick poses.
be interesting if there were teachers that could help practically too like networking/hooking you up with connections or at least, “join an art team/company that’s unionized” or so
Usually they do both, and it’s on a fluid way. Sometimes before sessions sometimes during sessions.
And teacher is used to not necessarily teach, you know? They rather teasing, provoking the students to go beyond what they know. Like Hyde, when he’s giving hints to Mary.
Oftentimes they will give you features or ideas to focus on. Like I’ve been told to focus on just blocking out lights and shadows or to do everything in one line. The kinds of exercises that guide your eye to see the subject in different ways.
They will teach and critique as well. Generally not on gesture drawings and most critiques or pointers are geared either towards some technical point or if you’re in a session where you’re taking a quick sketch and making a finished drawing by asking questions and making you think and consider the direction.
This a win for Joyce’s agency but also sort of a loss since she still insists on asking her dad about what classes she can take.
I mean, he’s paying. Adding an extra class comes with an extra bill, so he MIGHT want a heads up.
I often run my monies to zero by payday for my student daughter, so yes a heads up would likely be a good idea.
…America is an even worse place than I thought. Tuition fees are bad enough, but per course?!?
So, someone who is working full-time and taking 3-5 hours should pay for 17?
I’m not sure what year it is supposed to be in-comic, but if it’s recent enough, IU has gone to some sort of half-time/full-time tiered tuition model. So she may already be paying for enough hours to pick up an additional class.
The other question is workload.
And the OTHER other question: “what’s this I hear about you taking a class where you draw nekkid people???” Best to get out in front of that.
It depends on the school. Most (all?) state schools charge by class or credit hour. Some private schools have full time tuition for up to some number of classes. So at my undergrad you paid the same for 3-6 classes (4 was standard, 6 really unusual).
I think a lot of state schools have both options – a full time charge for basically however many classes you can fit it. Probably a top limit, but it’s one you don’t want to try to take. Or you can go part time and pay by the class/credit.
Mine was the same. “Full-time” was 12 hours, there was no charge after that except certain classes with lab fees.
I’d much rather pay per course, honestly. In this economy, it’s downright wasteful to pay for time you’re not using, and it’s always good not to feed the vultures more than we need to.
Generally there’s what amounts to a bulk discount. If you’re taking a even a minimal full time class load, it’s cheaper to pay for that. If you’re taking a class or two part time, paying by the class is cheaper.
I don’t think it’s asking for permission, I think it’s just asking him to sign off on the cost of the class because he’s in charge of the bills.
Being in a proper class/grading might help, though i wouldn’t be surprised if there was college students over the years that sat in more than they should’ve, or one person taking a class and having thorough notes or recording it and re-teaching it to a friend for free
i mean even with the comic strip she has i doubt it’ll ever pay enough money to pay for an elective that’s not a required credit
Depending on how many credits she’s already taking, it may or may not come with a cost increase — I got charged extra whenever I went over 19 credits in a semester (full time was at least 12.) If she’s near that line, she should *definitely* ask the person paying the bill. If not, then I agree she shouldn’t need to ask before adding something extra.
Yeah, in my school, full time was 3-5 classes. Going for more wasn’t allowed (or would have cost more).
However she discovers she feels, this is nice for both of them. This is a better anxiety for Joe.
money aside after all that’s happened i’d imagine the dad would let her do whatever she wants lol
Joyce’s agency is whether to accept or decline his feelings. Instead she chooses to be a dick about it and make a man who likes her so much that he made himself vulnerable to confess his feelings wait to find out how she feels. Not because she doesn’t know, but just to make him wait. It’s cruel and manipulative to do that to anybody. Either reciprocate or say you don’t feel the same way. Dont play with someone’s heart like that.
It’s almost like she’s an adolescent, and her brain still isn’t fully formed or something.
lol i’m much older than both of them and i’d be pretty flustered and prolly need a full 24 hours of space apart to process before answering whether or not they were ‘flirty’ with me in the past or blurt out the first thing on my head (tho as someone who’s been on the other side of unrequited love sometimes i wish i didn’t know if a friend/acquaintance liked me because it felt awkward that i couldn’t return their feelings and plus if we weren’t that close to begin with i’d prolly distance myself but this was way back when i was still a teen lol)
Did it occur to you that maybe she *does* have to think about it, and happens to also enjoy being able to take her time?
It did occur to me. Then I read it again and saw that she didn’t say she had tocthin about how she felt. He asked if she’d tell him how she felt and she said she think about it. i.e. think about telling him. She explicitly stated that she wanted to gloat about being the one in power in the social situation.
You seem to have such bad faith interpretations of Joyce on every strip for the last few days, and I’m not quite sure why that is. I could maybe understand you if these were two folks who don’t know each other that well, but Joyce and Joe are friends. They tease each other. Joe is smiling in the last panel because he knows she’s having fun with the situation, but he also knows she won’t leave him hanging for long and will respond to him. If you witnessed such cruel manipulation like you wrote about first hand, then I’m sorry you experienced such a thing, but I don’t believe this is the same situation.
No. If a woman doesn’t instantly and intensely reciprocate a man’s emotional output at an exact (unspecified) level, then clearly it’s another case of “females playing games”. [/SARCASM]
That’s not what they said though. Not by a long shot. They didn’t say “Joyce needs to say yes -now-“. They said, “Yes or no, either is acceptable. But making him wait while being non-committal is a bit rough.” I’m honestly inclined to agree.
Accept or Reject me if you want, but if I asked someone out, they teased me about it, and then just moved on as if it didn’t happen, which is what it looks like has basically occured here (She only says she’ll think about replying after he specifically asks her again), I at least would take that as a rejection. And kind of a bit of a ruder rejection.
If you’re going to say no, say no. That’s fine. If you want to think about it, then say that. Also valid. But don’t just say “I should ring my dad about this class. See you later”
Yeah, Joe seems real torn up about this.
“Joyce’s agency is whether to accept or decline his feelings.”
That implies NOW. Joyce’s agency is actually to do whatever she wants about his feelings. She is allowed to take her time, whether or not it is what Joe would prefer. No one is owed an immediate answer in any direction and it’s pretty shitty to demand one when someone is taking their time to consider.
If you view a lack of answer as a “no” then that’s probably for the best for you and whoever doesn’t answer you right away, since you seem incompatible with people who prefer to consider their feelings and thoughts rather than know exactly what they want and need right away. That’s alright, not everyone is compatible.
However, being incompatible with YOU (and with the misogynist above) doesn’t make someone “a dick” (direct quote from his post) for “[making] a man … wait to find out how she feels”. That’s the part people are jumping at, along with another direct quote from their post: “It’s cruel and manipulative to do that to anybody.”
Again, not saying yes or no right away IS NOT cruel and manipulative. It’s just not fun for the other person. That’s all.
To be fair, her last line about enjoying being on top of the situation does kind of push in the “cruel and manipulative” direction, in a way that “I need time to think about it” wouldn’t. (Cruel and manipulative aren’t the words I’d choose there though.)
It was a candid explanation of what she was thinking and feeling. That is the total opposite of cruel and manipulative. It’s about as open and honest as it gets, and it’s being painted otherwise because she didn’t tell a little white lie and leave that part out? Joe knows her, knows what she’s been through, and it’s her prerogative to tell him what she’s actually thinking if she wants.
Cruel and manipulative WERE the words chosen by the person I’m directly quoting, so I think I’m being perfectly fair, thanks.
On top of the communicative situation. As in she’s confident she’s not misunderstanding anything and can actually think about her feelings and not about guessing what his feelings are.
“On top” doesn’t always mean “a dominant position”. It can mean “fully informed”. The difference between, “On the top in this situation” and “on top of this situation”.
Ooh, that too.
Maybe. As part of the response to him asking if she was going to tell him how she felt, I read it as much more of the “I’m enjoying keeping you in suspense.”
Which might be a bit manipulative, but falls into minor flaw, well within acceptable behavior. Kind of like the earlier teasing.
And I’m sure it’s covering up a deeper level of panic about how to handle this and if she can deal with it.
“A bit rough” could describe my morning constitutional if I’ve had too much salsa the night before. The phrase used was “cruel and manipulative”. Things mean things.
I never said she had to reciprocate. But she should have said one of three things. A: I feel the same. B: I dont feel the same. C: I’m not sure how I feel and need some time to consider. Instead she said she would think about letting him know how she feels because she was enjoying being the one with the power.
Gods forbid a man wait five fucking seconds.
i mean, i wouldn’t be surprised if ‘teasing him/stringing him along’ to get boys to like you is some ‘tactic’ she learned from old movie tropes growing up but joyce’s teasing is more lighthearted rather than anything but she does have other things on her plate right now, but not as if joe’s gonna go anywhere
Taking time to think about it is good, from every angle. From Joe’s perspective, it’s not a no. It could have been, if she’d already thought about it. And if she discover she doesn’t want a relationship with him, the no will be done kindly. But it’s something she’s open to considering.
From Joyce’s perspective, she understands what’s going on. Joe has a romantic interest. Not as a sex object, like when they first met. He’s being clear and vulnerable. And compared to her other friends, he appreciates her for who she is and is becoming.
I get when readers dislike characters for making terrible youthful mistakes. I don’t always agree, but I see the basis for that. There will probably be some drama for that in the next chapter/day or two. But in this chapter/day, the Joyce and Joe interaction has been pretty great.
Even if the last thing she said is silly she’s well within her rights to take some time to decide
and people beat me to it while my wifi was down
A woman can do anything she wants. Say yes, no, waits, laugh at your face…
Hell, she could tweet about it to an audience of thousands just to farm engagement, if she wanted to. And that’s a good thing.
I… please don’t date any women, or anyone tbh, if this how you interpreted that situation. Yikes
what
Of course she doesn’t know. This is all a giant surprise to her! Do you fall in love with surprises within less than an hour?
So is this a Joyce thing or an all women thing for you?
It’s definitely an all women thing. Every single line reeks of “I’ve been watching a lot of all-male podcasts”
I’m sure plenty of people listen to all-male podcasts without being… Like that. Probably. I don’t listen to many podcasts, but I like to hope people are smarter.
I meant a very specific kind of all-male podcast, and I’m not under the impression that people can listen to misogyny in their spare time and not pick it up.
At the very least it’s very much an autistic thing to need more time to process new information and formulate a response/plan.
I’m not referring to Joyce’s behavior (which is playful and completely normal), I’m referring to the OP’s habit of posting the most insane bad faith takes of Joyce’s behavior in any strip that happens to feature both Joyce and Joe. I vaguely remember scolding this same person about some Joe-related bullshit in the past, but I can’t remember if it was in the context of an interaction with Joyce or Amber. This is why I am plainly asking if this person just does not like Joyce, or if they are a misogynist.
Ah, understood. I mess up the flow of these comments sometimes
What on earth are you talking about? How can you not understand she might need some time? She had no idea about his feelings before now, and they have a slightly complicated history (friends now, sure, but remember their date?) Even if she 100% knows how she feels it’s very, very sensible to take some time to decide if acting on those feelings is the right move for her.
Yeah, she has been pretty snarky and definitely imperfect in her interactions with him (and a lot of others) lately, but explicitly telling someone you’re going to take some time to think about it is absolutely not one of those cases. Sure, if sbe’d been leading him on flirtatiously for weeks or something but she definitely hasn’t.
If the issue is with the wording of her explicitly saying that she likes having the power she has right now, then doesn’t her saying it negate some of that? Turn it in to a slightly flirty thing? She can definitely go up or down from here, but as of right now I don’t think she is being cruel.
I’m glad someone else said this. I felt the same way reading it. I don’t really like Joyce in general though so I though it was my own bias. Like…I’m rooting for her growth that she seems to be in right now …but I think she is completely self absorbed. Everything is about her. Including this interaction. Like if you actually don’t know just say that (maybe with some kindness) rather than gloating about your place of power over someone who is vulnerable.
And before you say this is an ASD thing: this is not an ASD thing. If it was she would be straight forward about what she felt about him even if that feeling was “I don’t know I have to think about it”. This is something else. This is a scared and insecure person (perhaps bc a lot of her understanding of herself and the world has recently been shaken up–which is admittedly really hard) stepping on someone else to regain a sense of power she lost by that shake up. Being shaken isn’t the issue here. What she is doing with it–power grabbing from joe– is.
Good lord, this read isn’t just uncharitable, it’s the hot take equivalent of smacking a homeless person with a crowbar.
100% I was going to reply to them but all that came to mind was “Oh fuck off.” over and over again, so I’ll just agree with you instead, and flag their comment.
Yeah same, I’m flabbergasted people have that take of thinking that of joyce rn, especially based on this comic? Like wow I really hope they don’t have partners
*points to information processing which is a very big difference in autistic brains*
I had a spontaneous date with a potential play friend on Halloween. She told me she felt romantic vibes. I froze and just ignored the comment all night. Took me a week to figure out how I felt and wanted.
Plus *knowing* what you feel is a particular skill that not everyone has in equal amounts.
To clarify, it doesn’t have to be an autistic thing. “Sleep on it” is pretty sound advice for anyone when it comes to big decisions (especially when you’re on your period imo)
But I think it’s funny that you went “don’t say it’s asd” when slower information processing, decision making, interoception (and general executive functioning) characterise autism.
[Imagine the Mario “you dropped this, king” meme here, except he’s holding a fedora instead of a crown]
Also “king” is sloppily crossed out in black, with the word “incel” pasted over it in a different font.
That part goes without saying.
So, here’s the thing. You’re a raging misogynist who needs to work on yourself, not someone who needs to keep venting your not-at-all-veiled demands for women to be calm, kind, sweet, subservient and lacking in opinions of their own.
There is NOTHING wrong with not answering a question right away if you need to think. If someone asks me a question and then immediately demands an answer or pouts when I’m considering it, the answer becomes a “no” because I’m allowed my own agency without being guilt tripped for it.
I won’t be interacting with you further other than to flag your shitty takes and move on. I hope you grow and get over yourself.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
1. I truly honestly did not expect Willis to continue the Joe/Joyce storyline immediately following yesterday’s strip. I accepted checking up on Becky or someone else. The Willis keeps giving and the more he gives the more anxious I get for the day he takes.
2. It speaks volumes on how comfortable Joyce is with Joe to so casually drop that she needs to change pads. I know she already told him about the birth control but this feels more deliberate. This would never happen between them in first semester.
3. Joe’s smile in the last panel!! He recognizes her teasing, he is not frustrated. He is stuttering of course, he put himself out there and is waiting for her response, but he is comfortable with Joyce and knows she will respond in due time. The last panel (the whole strip really!) is a wonderful portrayal of their friendship and how much it has evolved from the very beginning.
Still a few strips left to see Dorothy brooding.
I really hope Dorothy didn’t give up on her application to the other Uni only for Joyce to suddenly have no time for or interest in her company, that would be rough.
Well, I say I hope it doesn’t happen; it’s a comic, and honestly that would be a realistic life choice and consequence and a real test of character.
She’d be the Danny.
Joe’s little smile in the last strip, I love it. I do feel like he gets where she’s coming from on it.
Her comfort here is pretty damn cute.
Not only that, but it’s fairly clear from Joyce’s behaviour what her answer is. She didn’t turn suddenly cold or defensive, which is what people who are not interested typically do. So on a subconscious level, I think Joe already knows Joyce’s answer.
Of course, this is assuming Joe has experience with reading emotional tells from others. XD
I do think that she is receptive, yeah. Doesn’t necessarily mean the two are going to start dating (yet, anyway), but I think she’s amicable.
While Joyce can’t/wouldn’t/shouldn’t be the next Pat McHoarney of 69 Mouse-Ear Blvd.
fame, I hope Hank accepts Joyce’s request.Who knows, Joyce could be an art
teacher*plays Tyra Banks’ America’s Next Top Model Theme by the windows*
Wait what the fuck
Joyce can’t experience character growth
She can’t mature in some perceivable way
That’s out of line with how she’d have responded a decade ago
What the fuck
Someone fetch my fainting couch, I’m having a case of the vapours
I’ll get the giant feather fan to waft smelling salts in your direction.
ahhhhhhh I’m so excited for them!!! I thought about the hearts that Joe drew over his head again and got all fan-girly :3c
And it only took two decades of build up!
NOW I can stop excusing her ass-iness as much, as she got past several roadblocks holding her back
Proud of this character
Ah, the waiting game… Everyone went there, one way or another.
Joe biting his lip is precious
So, what I’m taking from this page, as someone with a period and someone who’s had friends confess feelings to me:
-Joyce has never before now contextualized Joe as someone who could be a serious romantic interest. To me, she still hasn’t been contextualizing him that way throughout their interactions since his confession. He did go in soft, which is good and was the only landscape she wouldn’t just probably flee. Him confessing was as she said, her first instance of seeing him as a complex, deep human with human feelings. Before this he was just a moderately objectionable horndog she had developed a level of camaraderie with.
-She’s on her period. Her body and hormones are crazy right now, especially as her periods are particularly bad. It’s hard to Have Those Feelings and to process them. to me her mentioning the pad is meant to be a tell that this conversation should take place a bit later, maybe some days or even weeks in the future when she knows she’s going to be able to give both their feelings the attention required.
-it’s not impossible that with time she’d at least be willing to give it a try, but even if she’s an atheist now, she is unlikely to be comfortable with possibly anything more sexual than handholding and mouth-closed kisses, and particularly with joe where she knows he is a lot more experienced with sex than her and likely has heavier base expectations than her. This could be good growth for both of them, help her loosen the hold religious upbringing and recent attempted date rape trauma have had on her, and help joe learn to take it slow and appreciate things from a romantic partnership perspective. I think his interest in her shows a willingness to explore a non-sexual realm with another person, really, and that’s great.
All in all, I love how little has been said but how much has been conveyed in these last few comics, extremely relatable and real.
I’ll need to go back and read the start of their acquaintance, but I do recall they went on a date with mike as a chaperone and she became quite disgusted with him as a result of that date, so I suppose “never” is a bit extreme – rather, I think I mean “Joe the friend and person Joyce has known a while now”, while the date was with an actual stranger she was interested in trying, possibly based on harmful religion-based gender stereotypes causing her to prioritize finding her future husband ASAP? I know she had a round of that, I just need to confirm beyond my spotty memory whether she initiated or had vested interest in the first date with Joe, or not at all.
For that last point, Joyce gets horny. If they do get together and Joe doesn’t push in a way that scares her off, they’ll likely move past handholding and chaste kisses pretty quickly.
She practically threw herself at Ethan once, while they were dating.
And Joe largely lives for his libido, unless this new kind of relationship makes him hesitate.
I think she’s seen him as a complex deep human with feelings before, and has been disappointed that he hasn’t seen himself that way. Usually he wears a horndog mask, and she’s called attention to that.
I agree that she probably hasn’t seriously thought about him romantically. If they do start a relationship, the physical intimacy is probably going to be a source of drama. They’re both adjusting out of old attitudes towards sex.
Anyways, thinking about an episode of Taxi, where the Joe-like character (learning to combine romantic and sexual attraction) was Louis dePalma (Danny Divito).
“I need a new pad” … thinking back about 40 years when my wife was on the pill, there were months that she didn’t actually bleed, due to the pill. Don’t know whether the same effects happen these days, but heaven help us all when she finds she is “late” and is still a virgin…
Disregard. After talking to my wife, it’s my faulty memory
Happy trans awareness week, folks.
Yay! Happy Trans Awareness Week to you too! <3
Is it? Well, I do hope it’s a good one then, for the folks it’s for.
As much as I enjoy Joe and Joyce, I have a strong suspicion they will just be friends. From a character development perspective I think it’s actually more interesting for Joe to be rejected by Joyce and have to grapple with that. Joyce is attracted to Joe physically but their relationship feels mostly platonic.
We also can’t forget that these characters are very young and parts of their personalities remain undeveloped.
As a writer myself I also feel that a strong friendship between cis men and women is more radical and meaningful today than romance.
I think a fling which settles into friendship rather than romantic partnership might be more natural. These are two horny teenagers after all.
Agreed!
This is just warm and nice. Joyce looks so happy and Joe too. They like each other for sure, dunno if this can be the beginning of a great love story, but seeing them happy after all the bad situation of their life is beautiful.
Is maybe an option for the poll?
someone tell mrs. willis please that dyw is in desperate need of a spanking, or something.
Top sounds about right here.
On a tangent…
Did anyone consider how Joyce and Walky are approaching their comic strips?
Joyce has decided to ‘jump in’ to the art world… she’s planning on taking an extra course to help improve the quality of her comic strip. (Plus she has years of the strip planned out)
Meanwhile walky came up with a bunch of merchandising opportunities…. and that’s about it. (Has he even written any more than the first few strips that he showed in the interview?)
We don’t really know one way or the other unless it’s been covered in the patreon strips or something. I guess the question here is if the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence, or if it’s just not been relevant for the time being so we didn’t see it happen.
I think there was one other strip shown on patreon, but nothing to prove it wasn’t one of the ones he’d already had down
Joyce needs an Apartment where she can further control her own life. She wants a scenario where she can call Joe for a Booty Call, and it’s nobody’s fucking business.
Dotty thinks she’s helping, but Joyce has never had Independence. Dotty is setting up to be her new Mother, and that is not what she needs. She’s in a cage, with only a slight taste of what Freedom even is.
She also needs Joe to teach her that every Man is not the asshole from the party.
I wish there were an upvote system. Because this comment DEFINITELY deserves one.
So I’m a long time reader who hasn’t commented in a few years now but I am totally shocked how many people are painting Joyce in such a negative light. Like have they not been reading the same webcomic I have for all these years? Hello Joyce has gone through so much trauma in a very short amount of time give her a break! She has ever right to take it slow and process her feelings about this especially with all the changes she has been making in her life. Just ease up on her a little bit she a human after all a trauma filled messed up human but a human none the less!
It’s really just a few (objectively wrong) people, who seem to be getting plenty of pushback for it. The risks of having a public comments section, unfortunately.
I just really don’t understand it and it’s honestly super disappointing. Sure these are just webcomic characters but jeez people can’t them some slack especially our cinnamon bun Joyce! -_-
cut*
It. Never. Gets. Any. Easier.
Also mmmmmm cinnamon buns. I wish Willis would draw more food.
*plays “Race for Sweets” on hacked muzak*
And now….we wait.
I ship these two so hard I need someone to man the bilge pumps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkHQAvZEM1o&ab_channel=pusciferdotcom
Joyce is smiling. Joe loves her smile. They’re the best thing to happen to each other since they arrived at uni. That’s plenty for today. Both are looking forward to tomorrow.
Awwww! Those smiles! Joyce is so happy right now! And Joe seems cool with the honest answer of “I don’t have an answer for you tonight, but I’ll get back to you.”
I appreciate that they’re not rushing into anything. For all that I have no doubts that Joyce is into him, and even knowing that Joyce *suspected* Joe might have softer feelings towards her (that he literally ran away from every time she tried to bring it up with him), this is still new information for her to process! She deserves some time to think about what she does or doesn’t want to do with those feelings right now.
And honestly, “thank you for telling me about this, this makes me happy and it’s not unwelcome, and maybe I feel the same way, but I’m also not ready to act on these feelings” would be an okay outcome here! Joyce has got a LOT going on. One of the reasons I’m rooting for these two is that Joe has become such a source of support in her life, being one of the few people she can talk to who just listens to her, and accepts that she’s going through a time of intense, stressful, life-upending change, and that’s really beautiful! But if they start a relationship right now, Joe is going to become part of the A Lot that Joyce has going on.
(But if she does decide to go for it…this is a pretty good start for them! Actual honest communication and appreciation for the emotional stakes here for both of them.)
So I’m wondering if part of the split in the comments is between those who either assess all their friendships/acquaintanceships so would instantly be able to tell you if it’d be a yes or a no to a non-platonic relationship/those who don’t need to think about this sort of thing because for them its a completely hormonal decision – and those who consider several dimensions of feeling and compatibility, and weigh up what it would mean for the existing connection to change the parameters?
Like, almost half my lifetime ago now, I let a friend know I like-liked him and hardly ever feel like that about people. He said he was flattered and I gave him time and space to think about it. It was then about 3.5 months before we saw each other in person… We kissed a bit that night and spoke about it properly on the morning. We’re now married and have 3 kids together.
We’d been friends for 2 years before it occurred to me I might like-like him. Rushing him to work out how he felt would have felt rude… (I have since discovered I am most likely demisexual/sapiosexual, hence the hardly ever like-liking people, needing to know them well first, etc, but since that was my normal, it didn’t occur to me he might know how he felt OK and mainly just need opportunity to act on feels, rather than time to think about feels…)
I’m glad it worked out for you two. Yeah, I’ve been in similar situations.
I think it’s also complicated by the fact that Joyce has tried to talk to him about his feelings towards her in the past, like asking if her being the only Zero on his list was because she hurt him, or questioning why he was so sure she COULD steal Jacob, and he always would bail or some distraction would occur, so I don’t think she’s surprised by the admission so much as that he’s admitting it at all. I do think she’s proud of him for that leap, as well as being someone who she feels his acceptance of her hasn’t been reevaluated at all due to her possible autism.
I’ve had many relationships both serious and casual and experienced some prolonged periods of gradually developing feelings and some more circumspect with an immediate attraction.
A large part of our culture is based on a desire for immediate satisfaction. We romanticize the immediate attraction, even when we know it could cause problems (sometimes especially). This was featured quite prominently in the Joyce/Jacob arc. Perhaps with Joyce and Joe we’ll see another side of Joyce, which has the added benefit of Joe developing into a more patient person.
It’s nice that Joe is so happy to go at Joyce’s pace for all of this, especially considering how her morning started with her other friends and the tiff with Dorothy lol.
ok, let’s talk about the other important plot point here. Joyce can just walk up to a class and try it, then sign up later? I’m in college right now, and it’s the opposite for us- sign up first, drop it if you don’t enjoy it, otherwise it WILL fill
In my experience (college comparable to IU), it depends on the course. Like, in my senior year, there were two sections of this one course I needed to graduate. I signed up for the one that fit best with my schedule, but there were a lot of my classmates in another course who had that professor and didn’t like her/chose the other section to not have her. After the first week, they were saying they really liked the instructor of the other section, and I wasn’t sure about the one I was in. So, I showed up to a class, told the instructor I was thinking of switching and asked if I could sit it, did so, and ended up switching.
Lots of classes, at least where I’m from, will let someone sit in (like when Mike walked into gender studies). As long as you’re not distracting from the class or taking the prof’s time away from paying students, it’s not a big deal (though if you show up all the time, you should probably be officially auditing the class).
In an art class there’s the issue of materials and also places to sit, so Joyce probably can’t just keep showing up for the rest of this term.
There’s a new Shortpacked!! And it knocks it out of the park!
https://www.shortpacked.com/comic/victory-2
I love it.
“I need a new pad”
One of Huey Lewis and the News lesser hits
Good to know : Joyce enjoys being on top.