I tried very, very hard to be me for many years, wondering how I was doing it
so very wrong, until I realized the question was wrong. We’re doing a lot better now.
That first jab Joyce threw in panel 1 seems… kinda mean-spirited. I know she’s not the biggest fan re:Joe’s attitude towards casual sex, but that still feels a little low.
He deserves it though. As much progress as they’ve made their first interactions weren’t great. If it’s Joyce then Joe kinda has to take those hits on the chin…which is good cause Joe has a lot of chin.
The guy who had a do-list and spent the entirety of his first semester objectifying women and casually hooking up, absolutely deserves to be told that by the girl he thought deflowering would improve her desirability yes. I think so. Cause until very recently he hasn’t done anything to prove Joyce should think otherwise.
I mean, they’re friends at this point. It just seems pretty snipish. Considering the amount of heartfelt texting back and forth they did Joyce should know by now Joe’s not a heartless sex monster.
It’s because they’re friends now that Joe has to kind of deal with it. He’s in the red with Joyce. He may never be able to make up for it either. Cause of stuff like this.
This isn’t strictly speaking wrong, but god bless this comments section for its amazing consistency at catastrophizing relationship dynamics that don’t even exist yet
Didn’t Joyce have Mike come along on their date and physically assault Joe for making her upset? Does she like never get to live that down too or just Joe gets to deal with his teenage actions forever because people don’t like them?
I think a healthy destination for Joyce *does* involve acknowledging that she harmed people before she started reflecting on her beliefs, and yeah, I think that does mean accepting it’s a part of her personal history and that people who were affected by it have a right to remember and have opinions/feelings about it.
Y’all and TheJeff have some great ideas here. There is big similarity in how Joe and Joyce both have been suffering some intense character development — and no one recognizes it! Joe seems to be trying to hide how he is becoming sensitive and appreciative of sweet relationships and of Joyce as a person, while Joyce is so actively yo-yoing between lashing out and freaking out that no one can tell that SHE’s being a different person too. It’s hard to tell what they’ve been texting about given how hostile Joyce is to Joe today, but she is pretty darn hostile all around lately. Maybe they can recognize mutual struggle.
You aren’t wrong. Joe did some pretty reprehensible shit early on. But on the other hand, I also think that a friendship dynamic–or any other positive personal connection–isn’t gonna be helped by that kind of low blow. If you want to hold that against him, great. It’s a reasonable stance and nobody is demanding you forgive and forget. But you don’t call that person a friend if it’s going to be at the forefront of your interactions.
I’m not holding his past actions against Joe, but people think this is some kind of low blow against the dude and I’m just wondering why? We know his history and their history together. It was a fair criticism to me, especially coming from Joyce who he knows he’s unintentionally hurt in the past. Joe seems to know it too since he moved on without a response.
Agreed, but that pause reads like he’s not comfortable with what she said and trying to change the subject, especially when it was a personal barb directed at an innocuous comment.
It’s also, I suppose, powered in part by the reader knowledge that his womanizing ways were at least partially a defense mechanism to prevent anyone else from getting too close, as he’s afraid he might hurt them like his father has his ex-wives. It was still harmful, of course, as Joyce made very explicit.
“I’ve gotta take a little time
A little time to think things over
I better read between the lines
In case I need it when I’m older
This mountain, I must climb
Feels like a world upon my shoulders
Through the clouds, I see love shine
Keeps me warm as life grows colder
In my life, there’s been heartache and pain
I don’t know if I can face it again
Can’t stop now, I’ve traveled so far
To change this lonely life
I wanna know what love is
I want you to show me
I wanna feel what love is
I know you can show me (hey)
Gotta take a little time
Little time to look around me
I’ve got nowhere left to hide
Looks like love has finally found me
In my life, there’s been heartache and pain
I don’t know if I can face it again
Can’t stop now, I’ve traveled so far
To change this lonely life
I wanna know what love is
I want you to show me
I wanna feel what love is
I know you can show me
I wanna know what love is (I wanna know)
I want you to show me (I wanna feel)
I wanna feel what love is (I know, I know, and I know)
I know you can show me
Let’s talk about love
I wanna know what love is
(Love that you feel inside)
I want you to show me
(I’m feeling so much love)
I wanna feel what love is
(And you know, you just can’t hide)
I know you can show me
Oh, I wanna know what love is
(Let’s talk about love)
I know you can show me
(I wanna feel)
I wanna feel what love is
(And you know you just can’t hide)
I know you can show me
I wanna feel what love is (oh, I wanna know)
I want you to show me”
No, he doesn’t, and it’s a pretty mean thing not just to say to ANYONE, but specifically a kid whose parents have divorced, and who apparently did not take it well.
In fairness to Jouce, she still has her Unholy Period to deal with, with the painful cramps and heavy bleeding. She earns *some* slack for her pettiness and snippiness
It’s a fair point though. Joe’s the kind to actively proclaim he avoids love that can be described as “in love”. He has done so before (or damn close to). So… from Joyce’s perspective, how would Joe recognise being in love?
…Which might be a question with the potential to hit home particularly hard for him right now.
I think she’s in a bit of a pissy mood due to… well, any of a number of things, but definitely in the mix her slight realization that she LIKES Joe and doesn’t want to. She doesn’t know what to do with this, so she’s lashing out.
The sexual tension is so high, the only way they can release it in a gradual manner is to write out a formal contract with 2 signatures, 5 spots for initials, and a buttprint scan. No actual mention of the pleasures of butt-touching, no no!
/s because I actually want butt-touching, too, secretly
“Sudden Dorothy” is a concept for a Hatefuck Porn Comic between Dorothy and Jennifer in which Dorothy is the sexual aggressor. Jennifer can’t get away from Dorothy, because Dorothy has the deus ex machina powers of Dot from Animaniacs. You turn, and she’s there. You turn in the opposite direction, and she’s there. Dorothy can articulate how this works. She will explain it it long drawn-out ways that resemble a lecture. It is a lecture that Jennifer cannot escape, no matter where she runs. Dorothy is Omnipotent but usually doesn’t make a fuss about it.
I remember wite-out (TM). I think I even used some two or three years ago (to fill in some bas-relief lettering to make it more visible, so sort of the opposite of its intended purpose). But I have no idea if it’s still available, or if Kids Today (TM) even know what it is.
Brit here, never heard of Wite-Out before but we do have Tipp-Ex. There’s also a brand called Snopake that I used to use a lot (had to Google that, I always thought it was spelt “Snowpake”) but haven’t seen any in shops for years.
Wite-Out regularly shows up in Blacksmithing TV Shows (and occasionally Youtube) because it’s mostly titanium dioxide and can be used as a barrier to keep two types of steel from welding together in the heat of a forge.
Oh, Joyce, it’s a real good thing your comic is being published somewhere no one but your friends and family are going to read it, because you are going to get criticism, and some of it will be mean, and some of it will be a bit too accurate, and some of it will trigger insecurities you didn’t even know you had.
Probably, which does make me glad that Dorothy’s been pretty constructive, but direct, with her art criticisms. Good to break that ice early and from a good place.
So something I wanted to point out yesterday but didn’t realize until it was pretty late and nobody was reading the comments anymore: I saw a lot of folks speculating that being a dom is what gets Dina’s motor running, and I don’t think that’s what’s happening there.
Dina’s gotten pants euphoria twice, and mentioned it both times, but never in proximity to domming. During the horny trials, Dina was ordering Becky around, referring to her as “my Becky”, saying she enjoyed making her body her plaything…and still didn’t have pants euphoria until after those moments had passed.
I think Dina enjoys being a dom in the same way she enjoys eating cereal or talking about dinosaurs. There’s not an arousal component to it for her. The pleasure it gives her is simpler, the pleasure one gets from doing whatever hobbies one enjoys.
I see a lot of confusion around kinky aces and I think it’s frankly unwarranted. We all understand intuitively that we can like things without it popping us off. We go to movies, we read books, we scroll through Twitter, and for most people those are purely platonic pleasures. Why shouldn’t domming, or any other kink, be like that for some people?
Anyway, yeah. Just wanted to get that out there. On this entirely unrelated strip about Joyce and Joe, because I was kinda late to the jump with this one.
also like, i was thinking about it too – dina’s clearly having fun, but i always figured that the person who gets most worked up by the dom thing is, well… becky. and getting becky hot and bothered is definitely something dina seems to enjoy doing. which is great they are both clearly having a fantastic time!!
anyway good comment and i’m sure joyce would welcome a change in topic :p
Becky’s got a whole mess of complicated feelings about Joyce. I do think the love and attraction has passed, but Joyce is also more or less her only anchor to her life before, and much as she’d be loathe to admit it, likely, it does matter to her what Joyce thinks about her, which is part of why she was hurt by Joyce’s more negative personality traits as of late.
(With respect to that, I don’t think it’s that Joyce is an atheist, exactly, but her lashing out and crappy attitude about it while she’s processing what life is to her post-faith.)
I feel like it might drag up the atheism argument that was uneasily resolved only a few days ago. Joyce sees the various religious rules including sexual purity as an important part of religion, and Becky does not.
Not that simple. Becky also really struggled with the sexual purity thing. She was talking about waiting, tempted though she was. She even suggested to Dina afterward that they get married, to retroactively make it okay.
Becky *absolutely* sees those rules as important, and she’s having an ongoing crisis about it. She’s been fixating on not letting Joyce know for reasons that are almost entirely about Becky and Becky’s feelings about sex and Becky’s feelings about Joyce, and Becky’s feelings about how Joyce SHOULD feel about Becky having sex. (Real Life Joyce’s main role in Becky’s sexual drama to date has been to repeatedly tell Becky she should have sex with her girlfriend if she wants to, and Becky being hostile and dismissive in response because that wasn’t what she wanted to hear from Joyce.)
Yeah, but while Joyce has been supportive of Becky having sex if she wants, it’s been from a perspective of “there’s no God, so why not”, which doesn’t really help Becky.
And is likely just to bring back the atheism argument.
Yep. File that one under “Joyce’s personal evolution is only acceptable to Becky when it occurs in pre-approved areas that benefit Becky’s specific personal needs.”
Oh yes, Joe hasn’t been dragged into keeping that secret has he? He can probably tell what’s up. Joyce will be furious at everyone she perceives as lying to her; that may be the last straw before she changes dorms like Billie so she can pretend to be a “mature person.” (I just can’t ignore that Billie tried multiple times to get Riadah and her frenemies to call her Billie before giving in.)
Being “inescapably me” became both easier and harder (and both better and more painful) once I realised how much of that was tied up in autism- aka, all of it, and also a lot of trauma of living in a world that saw everything about me as “wrong”. (On top of other trauma.)
I think that may well be something Joyce is actively processing too.
I was personally referring to autism over anything else. To a certain extent, we can work to overcome the damaging lessons we were taught as children. Autism is, inescapably, permanently, inherently part of an autistic person’s self. It can be jarring and difficult to process.
(Not to say processing the- everything else isn’t a contributing factor and potentially a major one, but as it hit home for me personally that stands out to me.)
Joe doesn’t really seem to rise to Joyce’s comment in panel 1, the tone of which I sort of am still parsing, what level of severity we should take it as.
What I do notice, however, is his expression in panel 3. I don’t think he’s making fun of her with that, and in fact, it seems to be rather endearing to him.
I think Joe changes the subject in panel 2, because he’s uncomfortable with what Joyce is saying: “You just do no-strings sex, right, so how would you recognize a loving couple?”.
Joe is new at feelings, so he can’t say, “Yes, I’m certainly known for being like that, but now I’ve met someone who affects me far more deeply than that.” So he changes the subject to her comic, which he knows she’s proud of, and he can at least be supportive of so that she will regard him positively.
But she quickly moves to defend against expected ridicule, just as Joe tries to show that he appreciates her attitude as something special about her.
Definitely he finds it endearing. This whole ‘I give everything 110% and every last fuck I have’ attitude of hers is entirely what he was talking about when he went off on Jacob way back about how Joyce is going to be perfect someday and Jacob’s going to be sorry he missed out.
Exactly. He’s not any more blind to her faults than she is to his, but he definitely loves her sincerity and earnestness, even if it kind of hits like a water balloon sometimes and makes a big mess.
Yep. Joyce has mega-issues, Joyce knows she has mega-issues, Joe also knows Joyce has mega-issues, and that she has a whole wealth of toxic beliefs she’s been unlinking herself from, link by link, inch by inch, for several months in-comic time, and a whole decade now, in real time.
Joe thinks Joyce is amazing because while he has a pretty good idea of just how messed up she is, what he *sees* when he looks at her is someone who keeps trying to grow and be a better version of herself, someone who *has* grown as a person, someone who’s gotten a foot taller for every inch of her old self that she’s chosen to leave behind.
Meanwhile, Joe doesn’t think *he* can actually grow or be a good person. He thinks the only way he can avoid replicating the emotional wreckage his unfaithful father inflicted on his family is to avoid serious emotional entanglements. He’s repressed about it, he’s adopted boorish, unhealthy behaviors about it, he’s felt some guilt about those, when he was brutally called out on them…but he doesn’t know how to fix any of it.
Some part of Joe is just in awe of Joyce because he thinks she’s capable of positive change when he’s not. Yeah, she’s a mess, she’s someone who thinks and does fucked-up things, but Joyce is mess who gets a little better everyday because she wants to, and someday she’s going to be perfect, and so unbelievably out of his range, and that Joe actually expressing the feelings he has for her, getting involved with her (sexually, romantically, heaven forbid BOTH at ONCE) would would only derail that.
Neither of them is in the right place to get together in a relationship with a good chance of lasting right now—way too much respective personal baggage—but I remain convinced that they’ll make a wonderful couple when they’re ready.
He’s definitely fixed some of the boorish unhealthy behaviors – the list is gone, he’s not hitting on girls nearly so constantly. And what he is doing seems even more performative – like he’s just keeping the pretense up so people won’t realize he’s actually having trouble.
But he hasn’t given up on the core problem idea – that he’s not safe to be in a relationship with anyone.
Yep. And until he does work through the underlying reasons why he feels that way, I don’t think he’s in a good position to enter into any sincere romantic relationship with anyone, especially not someone he’s got on a bit of a pedestal.
oh my good he’s so into her. He’s reading her comic strip ‘cause he’s in looooooooooove. He wants to know if he’s in it because he likes her and he wants to know how much she thinks about himmmmmmm
(And she’s oblivious and can only parse the intense interest he’s showing her and the stuff she’s into as the prelude to mockery because she’s a self-conscious mess and also because that is what her entire friends group does to everything she shows passion about)
And also, to be fair, because “her entire friend group” has up to now very much included Joe, and he is specifically not claiming that her analysis is wrong, either because he doesn’t know how to do so, or because he hasn’t really parsed this either.
Historically I would have included Joe in that, yeah. But he hasn’t in a long time. The closest he’s come to giving her a hard time about something like that lately was when they were talking about whether she still believed in Creationism, which is a fairly reasonable thing to be concerned about in your science lab partner.
It’s the present behavior/dynamic between these two I’m digging so much, not the messier past that both of them have expressed regret about before attempting to move past.
Joe, Surprising everyone by coming in at Joyce’s healthiest relationship at the moment. Seriously. This is the first conversation about something other than glasses, Meds, her mental capacity, sexuslity, or any other stressor. He’s literally just talking about something she’s passionate about and it’s a normal conversation.
I think we often don’t see these kind of inconsequential conversations between Joyce and the other cast members because they’re already friends. Friendly and supportive conversations wouldn’t advance the storyline.
Dorothy literally also talked with her about her comic strip and life drawing classes. And Joe doesn’t know about several of her stressors so it would be pretty hard for him to bring up what he doesn’t know is happening.
Yeah, I don’t know if he’s cognizant of the health stuff. Not sure he’d bring it up if he did know, though, just depending on how/whey he’d have known in the first place.
Dorothy did indeed talk to her about it, though, and offered constructive criticism, which was cool of her. She does need to get better about otherwise not handling her with kid gloves, but she obviously trusts her to handle that criticism.
Yup Dorothy has has some normal conversations with Joyce that weren’t about trying to fix Joyce. Before she gave into Billie’s bullying Dorothy was doing a pretty good job just being a friend for a while.
Let’s admit it. Joe and Joyce are very nice to see together and the way they talk with each other is full of tension of things they can’t say to each other, still.
What would happen to you if you were able to escape from yourself?
“You” and “Self” have been dissociated. “You” is now in an Android Container Body(With a RUST OS) leaving “Self” behind in the Organic Body. You have successfully escaped from yourself. Now what?
I am quite certain that Joe has looked at plenty of Yuri Doujinshi, on the internet, to recognize potential, hot, girl on girl, make out sessions, in future chapters of the comic.
He’s mentioned it several times before, that they are good “lab partners”. Sometimes awkwardly like he’s embarrassed to be seen stepping out of his horn-dog persona. I love the mutual respect he has going on with Dina.
There’s that, though I also wonder if Richard seemingly turning over a new leaf is also part of it. I doubt Joe has a whole lot of faith in his dad to not fuck up this marriage, too, but Richard does seem to be legitimately invested. Given Amber’s legal situation, it’s not exactly like he’s signing up for the easiest Stepdad role in the world.
We haven’t seen much of him since it started, but back then he gave no sign he was putting in any effort to change. He was just happy enough with the sex he was getting that he wasn’t bothering with anything else. As long as that lasts he’ll be fine.
When it doesn’t, he hasn’t put in any work towards changing.
Which doesn’t mean he’s not trying to be a good parent to Joe and even to Amber, to whatever extent he can. That doesn’t conflict with him going back to cheating.
Moe is a dastardly evil but incredibly hot guy (within Joyce’s cartooning capabilities) and both the characters and the author go out of the way to pretend he is not.
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Moe RothenbergJOB ROSENTHABJoel Rosybumm.
Moe Rocketbod
Jorf Punchbeef!
Yo Tosenblargh!
Jack Hardpec!
Slab McLargeHuge!
Squarejaw O’Finebuttell
Impure McLustobject
Blast Hardcheese!
Lump Beefbroth.
Jojoyce Rosenthown!
New ship name.
No no no no NO! We’ve been over this before! It’s brooding ace fighter pilot Brodie “Broseph” Joesnthal!!
Hey, I’m inescapably me, too!
I escaped once but eventually I was recaptured.
Do you get time off from being you for good behavior?
Asking for a friend.
Nope. Only for bad behavior.
I tried very, very hard to be me for many years, wondering how I was doing it
so very wrong, until I realized the question was wrong. We’re doing a lot better now.
What about Bo and Poe?
The other two of the identical Rosenthorp trips?
That first jab Joyce threw in panel 1 seems… kinda mean-spirited. I know she’s not the biggest fan re:Joe’s attitude towards casual sex, but that still feels a little low.
He deserves it though. As much progress as they’ve made their first interactions weren’t great. If it’s Joyce then Joe kinda has to take those hits on the chin…which is good cause Joe has a lot of chin.
Joe deserves to be told he wouldn’t recognize love?
The guy who had a do-list and spent the entirety of his first semester objectifying women and casually hooking up, absolutely deserves to be told that by the girl he thought deflowering would improve her desirability yes. I think so. Cause until very recently he hasn’t done anything to prove Joyce should think otherwise.
I mean, they’re friends at this point. It just seems pretty snipish. Considering the amount of heartfelt texting back and forth they did Joyce should know by now Joe’s not a heartless sex monster.
It’s because they’re friends now that Joe has to kind of deal with it. He’s in the red with Joyce. He may never be able to make up for it either. Cause of stuff like this.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/object/
So even if they end up married one day Joe’s gotta kind of hold the L. I don’t feel bad for him.
If Joe and Joyce end up married then its a good chance they’ve both put it behind them
If they end up married and Joyce keeps bringing up stuff he did in college, the relationship is a fucking mess and they really should break up
Unless it’s turned into a running gag that Joe finds endearing, which I very much expect tbh
This isn’t strictly speaking wrong, but god bless this comments section for its amazing consistency at catastrophizing relationship dynamics that don’t even exist yet
Didn’t Joyce have Mike come along on their date and physically assault Joe for making her upset? Does she like never get to live that down too or just Joe gets to deal with his teenage actions forever because people don’t like them?
I think a healthy destination for Joyce *does* involve acknowledging that she harmed people before she started reflecting on her beliefs, and yeah, I think that does mean accepting it’s a part of her personal history and that people who were affected by it have a right to remember and have opinions/feelings about it.
I think they’ve both kind of dealt with it honestly.
They both have a ways to go. Joe’s done a lot of his work internally, so it’s not surprising no one realizes he’s thinking differently now.
Y’all and TheJeff have some great ideas here. There is big similarity in how Joe and Joyce both have been suffering some intense character development — and no one recognizes it! Joe seems to be trying to hide how he is becoming sensitive and appreciative of sweet relationships and of Joyce as a person, while Joyce is so actively yo-yoing between lashing out and freaking out that no one can tell that SHE’s being a different person too. It’s hard to tell what they’ve been texting about given how hostile Joyce is to Joe today, but she is pretty darn hostile all around lately. Maybe they can recognize mutual struggle.
You aren’t wrong. Joe did some pretty reprehensible shit early on. But on the other hand, I also think that a friendship dynamic–or any other positive personal connection–isn’t gonna be helped by that kind of low blow. If you want to hold that against him, great. It’s a reasonable stance and nobody is demanding you forgive and forget. But you don’t call that person a friend if it’s going to be at the forefront of your interactions.
I’m not holding his past actions against Joe, but people think this is some kind of low blow against the dude and I’m just wondering why? We know his history and their history together. It was a fair criticism to me, especially coming from Joyce who he knows he’s unintentionally hurt in the past. Joe seems to know it too since he moved on without a response.
Agreed, but that pause reads like he’s not comfortable with what she said and trying to change the subject, especially when it was a personal barb directed at an innocuous comment.
It’s also, I suppose, powered in part by the reader knowledge that his womanizing ways were at least partially a defense mechanism to prevent anyone else from getting too close, as he’s afraid he might hurt them like his father has his ex-wives. It was still harmful, of course, as Joyce made very explicit.
Reread the strips leading up to his first date with Joyce. That would be a yes.
He wants to know what love is.
He wants her to show him.
“I’ve gotta take a little time
A little time to think things over
I better read between the lines
In case I need it when I’m older
This mountain, I must climb
Feels like a world upon my shoulders
Through the clouds, I see love shine
Keeps me warm as life grows colder
In my life, there’s been heartache and pain
I don’t know if I can face it again
Can’t stop now, I’ve traveled so far
To change this lonely life
I wanna know what love is
I want you to show me
I wanna feel what love is
I know you can show me (hey)
Gotta take a little time
Little time to look around me
I’ve got nowhere left to hide
Looks like love has finally found me
In my life, there’s been heartache and pain
I don’t know if I can face it again
Can’t stop now, I’ve traveled so far
To change this lonely life
I wanna know what love is
I want you to show me
I wanna feel what love is
I know you can show me
I wanna know what love is (I wanna know)
I want you to show me (I wanna feel)
I wanna feel what love is (I know, I know, and I know)
I know you can show me
Let’s talk about love
I wanna know what love is
(Love that you feel inside)
I want you to show me
(I’m feeling so much love)
I wanna feel what love is
(And you know, you just can’t hide)
I know you can show me
Oh, I wanna know what love is
(Let’s talk about love)
I know you can show me
(I wanna feel)
I wanna feel what love is
(And you know you just can’t hide)
I know you can show me
I wanna feel what love is (oh, I wanna know)
I want you to show me”
– Michael L. Jones
So I guess we’re doing the 80s thing, then…
I’m pretty much always.
No, he doesn’t, and it’s a pretty mean thing not just to say to ANYONE, but specifically a kid whose parents have divorced, and who apparently did not take it well.
Joyce doesn’t seem to notice that Joe doesn’t really make fun of her anymore, or at least tries to keep it to friendly ribbing.
You’re right.
Agreed. Even if one thinks Joe has it coming (He didn’t), that’s pretty beneath Joyce to right for the moral kidney punch.
It should be beneath Joyce, but it’s honestly not. She’s been pretty petty for a hot minute at this point.
I took it as more of a dry comment than her necessarily going for the jugular here, though.
In fairness to Jouce, she still has her Unholy Period to deal with, with the painful cramps and heavy bleeding. She earns *some* slack for her pettiness and snippiness
It’s a fair point though. Joe’s the kind to actively proclaim he avoids love that can be described as “in love”. He has done so before (or damn close to). So… from Joyce’s perspective, how would Joe recognise being in love?
…Which might be a question with the potential to hit home particularly hard for him right now.
I think Joe is trying to understand what love is. That could be an explanation about why he asked to Sal why she’s with Danny just before.
True, but it’s also true that he’s still trying to hide it, so Joyce having that perspective on him isn’t surprising.
I think she’s in a bit of a pissy mood due to… well, any of a number of things, but definitely in the mix her slight realization that she LIKES Joe and doesn’t want to. She doesn’t know what to do with this, so she’s lashing out.
Mecky and Wina will be fan favorites, i’m sure
Not!Dina needs another paleontological name
So like Terry ni Donnell or Carina Taur or something
Paris Noor O’Lophus.
Tyra Nnosaurus
Tyra Nozaras
Is Not!Dina still obsessed with dinosaurs, or obsessed with something else?
Birds.
Dina becomes Liza, I think, for Lizard.
I live for these interactions.
On Twitter…
DAVID: Black Cherry Jim Beam tastes like cough syrup! Like nature intended.
ME: Flaming Homers in the making?
So we got a flamed Moe.
His name’s actually John…as of now cause she can easily edit the comic before it hits print.
GOD just touch each others butts already. DAMN.
But like, somewhere we can perv on you doing it please.
Respectfully of course.
The sexual tension is so high, the only way they can release it in a gradual manner is to write out a formal contract with 2 signatures, 5 spots for initials, and a buttprint scan. No actual mention of the pleasures of butt-touching, no no!
/s because I actually want butt-touching, too, secretly
“i am inescapably me” is absolutely the book title
My favorite is still “SUDDEN DOROTHY!”
“Sudden Dorothy” is a concept for a Hatefuck Porn Comic between Dorothy and Jennifer in which Dorothy is the sexual aggressor. Jennifer can’t get away from Dorothy, because Dorothy has the deus ex machina powers of Dot from Animaniacs. You turn, and she’s there. You turn in the opposite direction, and she’s there. Dorothy can articulate how this works. She will explain it it long drawn-out ways that resemble a lecture. It is a lecture that Jennifer cannot escape, no matter where she runs. Dorothy is Omnipotent but usually doesn’t make a fuss about it.
She has a flip chart presentation prepared and a pointer and everything!
I remember wite-out (TM). I think I even used some two or three years ago (to fill in some bas-relief lettering to make it more visible, so sort of the opposite of its intended purpose). But I have no idea if it’s still available, or if Kids Today (TM) even know what it is.
Yeah, kids know what wite-out is.
Brit here, never heard of Wite-Out before but we do have Tipp-Ex. There’s also a brand called Snopake that I used to use a lot (had to Google that, I always thought it was spelt “Snowpake”) but haven’t seen any in shops for years.
It still exists. I personally use it more for artistic purposes than editing. I don’t know if younger people need white out much in the digital era.
I think they use it for decorating their phone cases.
Younger people need white out *remover* more, gotta help those interns keep the Congresspeople’s monitors clean after all.
As Yumi posted it’s more of an Art Supply now than an office supply, but it is still readily available.
What about those eraser pencils that peel back like China markers and have a little brush on the other end?
Or self-correcting typewriter ribbons?
Wite-Out regularly shows up in Blacksmithing TV Shows (and occasionally Youtube) because it’s mostly titanium dioxide and can be used as a barrier to keep two types of steel from welding together in the heat of a forge.
Huh, that’s pretty cool.
I, for one, am eagerly anticipating the long-awaited debut of
MoePoe Ranksman.Oh, Joyce, it’s a real good thing your comic is being published somewhere no one but your friends and family are going to read it, because you are going to get criticism, and some of it will be mean, and some of it will be a bit too accurate, and some of it will trigger insecurities you didn’t even know you had.
Probably, which does make me glad that Dorothy’s been pretty constructive, but direct, with her art criticisms. Good to break that ice early and from a good place.
Oh no, you discovered the reason why I never put any of my own creative works online…
OTOH, if her friends and family weren’t the ones reading it, they wouldn’t be recognizing themselves in it. Which seems even more embarrassing.
“And now, a side arc: Inescapable Me“
Also, rookie mistake to use Liquid Paper™
Correction tape ftw
Wite-Out comes in correction tape as well.
She’s scanning them!
She’s trying to make their heads explode, that far out space nutJust use Photoshop or something!
So how many strips until Daisy starts only publishing the ones with Dorothy and Joyce having UST?
“They’re not Dorothy and me!”
Well,she did give her fair warning about nor expecting them in order.
Gotta love college epiphanies.
And as easy as it is to think college won’t end, there’s still plenty of epiphanies waiting outside of college.
I said
what about
college epiphanies
And she said…
“I think I remember that strip?”
And as I recall…
We both kinda liked it?
Panel 3 – Oh no, Joyce, no. You are setting yourself up for a lot of pain by connecting yourself that much to your project
So something I wanted to point out yesterday but didn’t realize until it was pretty late and nobody was reading the comments anymore: I saw a lot of folks speculating that being a dom is what gets Dina’s motor running, and I don’t think that’s what’s happening there.
Dina’s gotten pants euphoria twice, and mentioned it both times, but never in proximity to domming. During the horny trials, Dina was ordering Becky around, referring to her as “my Becky”, saying she enjoyed making her body her plaything…and still didn’t have pants euphoria until after those moments had passed.
I think Dina enjoys being a dom in the same way she enjoys eating cereal or talking about dinosaurs. There’s not an arousal component to it for her. The pleasure it gives her is simpler, the pleasure one gets from doing whatever hobbies one enjoys.
I see a lot of confusion around kinky aces and I think it’s frankly unwarranted. We all understand intuitively that we can like things without it popping us off. We go to movies, we read books, we scroll through Twitter, and for most people those are purely platonic pleasures. Why shouldn’t domming, or any other kink, be like that for some people?
Anyway, yeah. Just wanted to get that out there. On this entirely unrelated strip about Joyce and Joe, because I was kinda late to the jump with this one.
also like, i was thinking about it too – dina’s clearly having fun, but i always figured that the person who gets most worked up by the dom thing is, well… becky. and getting becky hot and bothered is definitely something dina seems to enjoy doing. which is great they are both clearly having a fantastic time!!
anyway good comment and i’m sure joyce would welcome a change in topic :p
This is excellent analysis, nice work!
As a horny ace, some confusion is warranted. I’m confused, personally.
But yes, Dina seemed a different kind of “into it”.
(As in, I’m confused about my own stuff. It’s hard to tell “arouses me” from “I’m fascinated with it” when it’s adjacent, sometimes)
Yeah I felt the same way, she enjoys being a dom but I don’t think that’s what turns her on.
The something being up with them is the fact that they had sex and are just not telling Joyce about it for reasons I still don’t entirely get
Becky’s got a whole mess of complicated feelings about Joyce. I do think the love and attraction has passed, but Joyce is also more or less her only anchor to her life before, and much as she’d be loathe to admit it, likely, it does matter to her what Joyce thinks about her, which is part of why she was hurt by Joyce’s more negative personality traits as of late.
(With respect to that, I don’t think it’s that Joyce is an atheist, exactly, but her lashing out and crappy attitude about it while she’s processing what life is to her post-faith.)
I feel like it might drag up the atheism argument that was uneasily resolved only a few days ago. Joyce sees the various religious rules including sexual purity as an important part of religion, and Becky does not.
Not that simple. Becky also really struggled with the sexual purity thing. She was talking about waiting, tempted though she was. She even suggested to Dina afterward that they get married, to retroactively make it okay.
Becky *absolutely* sees those rules as important, and she’s having an ongoing crisis about it. She’s been fixating on not letting Joyce know for reasons that are almost entirely about Becky and Becky’s feelings about sex and Becky’s feelings about Joyce, and Becky’s feelings about how Joyce SHOULD feel about Becky having sex. (Real Life Joyce’s main role in Becky’s sexual drama to date has been to repeatedly tell Becky she should have sex with her girlfriend if she wants to, and Becky being hostile and dismissive in response because that wasn’t what she wanted to hear from Joyce.)
Yeah, but while Joyce has been supportive of Becky having sex if she wants, it’s been from a perspective of “there’s no God, so why not”, which doesn’t really help Becky.
And is likely just to bring back the atheism argument.
Yep. File that one under “Joyce’s personal evolution is only acceptable to Becky when it occurs in pre-approved areas that benefit Becky’s specific personal needs.”
Oh yes, Joe hasn’t been dragged into keeping that secret has he? He can probably tell what’s up. Joyce will be furious at everyone she perceives as lying to her; that may be the last straw before she changes dorms like Billie so she can pretend to be a “mature person.” (I just can’t ignore that Billie tried multiple times to get Riadah and her frenemies to call her Billie before giving in.)
Being ‘inescapably me’ was a lot better once I worked out that *I* am the one who gets to decide who that is, and nobody else.
Being “inescapably me” became both easier and harder (and both better and more painful) once I realised how much of that was tied up in autism- aka, all of it, and also a lot of trauma of living in a world that saw everything about me as “wrong”. (On top of other trauma.)
I think that may well be something Joyce is actively processing too.
Hmm good point. After spending her whole life working so hard being her mother’s fantasy of a wholesome, neurotypical Christian girl.
I was personally referring to autism over anything else. To a certain extent, we can work to overcome the damaging lessons we were taught as children. Autism is, inescapably, permanently, inherently part of an autistic person’s self. It can be jarring and difficult to process.
(Not to say processing the- everything else isn’t a contributing factor and potentially a major one, but as it hit home for me personally that stands out to me.)
That’s going to be fun when the love triangle hits. XD
No one is inescapably themselves, a simple lobotomy changes everything.
Changing the prison is not the same thing as escaping the prison.
Now kiss! Kiiiiiiiss!
Joe doesn’t really seem to rise to Joyce’s comment in panel 1, the tone of which I sort of am still parsing, what level of severity we should take it as.
What I do notice, however, is his expression in panel 3. I don’t think he’s making fun of her with that, and in fact, it seems to be rather endearing to him.
I think Joe changes the subject in panel 2, because he’s uncomfortable with what Joyce is saying: “You just do no-strings sex, right, so how would you recognize a loving couple?”.
Joe is new at feelings, so he can’t say, “Yes, I’m certainly known for being like that, but now I’ve met someone who affects me far more deeply than that.” So he changes the subject to her comic, which he knows she’s proud of, and he can at least be supportive of so that she will regard him positively.
But she quickly moves to defend against expected ridicule, just as Joe tries to show that he appreciates her attitude as something special about her.
Wondering how Joyce thinks Joe avoids romantic entanglements if he doesn’t know what they look like….
I noticed his expression too! Him finding it endearing is exactly how I took it as well, although you put it better than I would have right now.
Definitely he finds it endearing. This whole ‘I give everything 110% and every last fuck I have’ attitude of hers is entirely what he was talking about when he went off on Jacob way back about how Joyce is going to be perfect someday and Jacob’s going to be sorry he missed out.
Yup.
Exactly. He’s not any more blind to her faults than she is to his, but he definitely loves her sincerity and earnestness, even if it kind of hits like a water balloon sometimes and makes a big mess.
Yep. Joyce has mega-issues, Joyce knows she has mega-issues, Joe also knows Joyce has mega-issues, and that she has a whole wealth of toxic beliefs she’s been unlinking herself from, link by link, inch by inch, for several months in-comic time, and a whole decade now, in real time.
Joe thinks Joyce is amazing because while he has a pretty good idea of just how messed up she is, what he *sees* when he looks at her is someone who keeps trying to grow and be a better version of herself, someone who *has* grown as a person, someone who’s gotten a foot taller for every inch of her old self that she’s chosen to leave behind.
Meanwhile, Joe doesn’t think *he* can actually grow or be a good person. He thinks the only way he can avoid replicating the emotional wreckage his unfaithful father inflicted on his family is to avoid serious emotional entanglements. He’s repressed about it, he’s adopted boorish, unhealthy behaviors about it, he’s felt some guilt about those, when he was brutally called out on them…but he doesn’t know how to fix any of it.
Some part of Joe is just in awe of Joyce because he thinks she’s capable of positive change when he’s not. Yeah, she’s a mess, she’s someone who thinks and does fucked-up things, but Joyce is mess who gets a little better everyday because she wants to, and someday she’s going to be perfect, and so unbelievably out of his range, and that Joe actually expressing the feelings he has for her, getting involved with her (sexually, romantically, heaven forbid BOTH at ONCE) would would only derail that.
Neither of them is in the right place to get together in a relationship with a good chance of lasting right now—way too much respective personal baggage—but I remain convinced that they’ll make a wonderful couple when they’re ready.
Very well put. Couldn’t agree more.
(For real, no sarcasm!)
Yup, very nicely put.
He’s definitely fixed some of the boorish unhealthy behaviors – the list is gone, he’s not hitting on girls nearly so constantly. And what he is doing seems even more performative – like he’s just keeping the pretense up so people won’t realize he’s actually having trouble.
But he hasn’t given up on the core problem idea – that he’s not safe to be in a relationship with anyone.
Yep. And until he does work through the underlying reasons why he feels that way, I don’t think he’s in a good position to enter into any sincere romantic relationship with anyone, especially not someone he’s got on a bit of a pedestal.
Agreed, with all of the above.
Plot twist: Julia Gray falls in love with Rose Joseph, the philandering (philgynering?) lesbian.
Yay I like them I’m on the ship let’s cast of anchor!
No matter where you go, there you are.
…. I’m in the toilet bowl, apparently.
Look at these two smooth operators. No mixed messages here! No sexual tension whatsoever! No muddied waters!! None!
Joe’s trying so hard to be nice and he’s still shooting himself, precious baby
OC ! do not steal !
Sounds like a good book title, “Dumbing of Age: I Am Inescapably Me”
“I’ve put my entire self into this comic, but everyone else in it is original and completely fictional.”
uh huh.
Now would be a good time to point out that Joyce is semi-autobiographical.
oh, I am aware.
Plot twist: there’s actually *five* guys named Moe in Joyce’s strip
oh my good he’s so into her. He’s reading her comic strip ‘cause he’s in looooooooooove. He wants to know if he’s in it because he likes her and he wants to know how much she thinks about himmmmmmm
(And she’s oblivious and can only parse the intense interest he’s showing her and the stuff she’s into as the prelude to mockery because she’s a self-conscious mess and also because that is what her entire friends group does to everything she shows passion about)
Yssssssss
And also, to be fair, because “her entire friend group” has up to now very much included Joe, and he is specifically not claiming that her analysis is wrong, either because he doesn’t know how to do so, or because he hasn’t really parsed this either.
Historically I would have included Joe in that, yeah. But he hasn’t in a long time. The closest he’s come to giving her a hard time about something like that lately was when they were talking about whether she still believed in Creationism, which is a fairly reasonable thing to be concerned about in your science lab partner.
It’s the present behavior/dynamic between these two I’m digging so much, not the messier past that both of them have expressed regret about before attempting to move past.
I think she also expects Joe to make fun of her specifically because of the way Joe has acted int he past.
Yeah, Joe’s teased her from time to time. Not as much as Walky has, or maybe even as much as Sarah has, but stuff like offering to pay her to swear.
sdflaksdjkfjhsd he even guessed the name right
Fun fact: Bette Nesmith Graham invented Liquid Paper brand correction fluid. Her son Michael would later star in The Monkees.
Joe, Surprising everyone by coming in at Joyce’s healthiest relationship at the moment. Seriously. This is the first conversation about something other than glasses, Meds, her mental capacity, sexuslity, or any other stressor. He’s literally just talking about something she’s passionate about and it’s a normal conversation.
I think we often don’t see these kind of inconsequential conversations between Joyce and the other cast members because they’re already friends. Friendly and supportive conversations wouldn’t advance the storyline.
Dorothy literally also talked with her about her comic strip and life drawing classes. And Joe doesn’t know about several of her stressors so it would be pretty hard for him to bring up what he doesn’t know is happening.
Yeah, I don’t know if he’s cognizant of the health stuff. Not sure he’d bring it up if he did know, though, just depending on how/whey he’d have known in the first place.
Dorothy did indeed talk to her about it, though, and offered constructive criticism, which was cool of her. She does need to get better about otherwise not handling her with kid gloves, but she obviously trusts her to handle that criticism.
Yup Dorothy has has some normal conversations with Joyce that weren’t about trying to fix Joyce. Before she gave into Billie’s bullying Dorothy was doing a pretty good job just being a friend for a while.
Let’s admit it. Joe and Joyce are very nice to see together and the way they talk with each other is full of tension of things they can’t say to each other, still.
If you have to absolutely drag it out of me, fine, sure!
I’m sorry to force you to admit it, but it’s necessary.
I’ve been cheering every time Joyce and Joe interact for a while now. They are adorable.
What would happen to you if you were able to escape from yourself?
“You” and “Self” have been dissociated. “You” is now in an Android Container Body(With a RUST OS) leaving “Self” behind in the Organic Body. You have successfully escaped from yourself. Now what?
Be Batman.
You’d have to get a second apartment, wouldn’t you?
Reading her comic made Joe able to recognize women in love?
I am quite certain that Joe has looked at plenty of Yuri Doujinshi, on the internet, to recognize potential, hot, girl on girl, make out sessions, in future chapters of the comic.
Joe has always been a horn-dog, but I don’t see any reason he wouldn’t be able to recognize love or at least recognize it between two other people.
He’s mentioned it several times before, that they are good “lab partners”. Sometimes awkwardly like he’s embarrassed to be seen stepping out of his horn-dog persona. I love the mutual respect he has going on with Dina.
I think the ellipsis indicates that he’s changing the subject.
Agreed.
Maybe being “forced” to see Sal and Danny being adorable with each other is giving him a lot to think about love and being in love.
There’s that, though I also wonder if Richard seemingly turning over a new leaf is also part of it. I doubt Joe has a whole lot of faith in his dad to not fuck up this marriage, too, but Richard does seem to be legitimately invested. Given Amber’s legal situation, it’s not exactly like he’s signing up for the easiest Stepdad role in the world.
That’s true, even his dad is turning over a new leaf.
Not in any real sense, I’m afraid.
We haven’t seen much of him since it started, but back then he gave no sign he was putting in any effort to change. He was just happy enough with the sex he was getting that he wasn’t bothering with anything else. As long as that lasts he’ll be fine.
When it doesn’t, he hasn’t put in any work towards changing.
Which doesn’t mean he’s not trying to be a good parent to Joe and even to Amber, to whatever extent he can. That doesn’t conflict with him going back to cheating.
Well, Joyce, no matter where you go, there you are.
It’s not Moe, it’s Foe 😛
So is this Walkyception? Fictional versions of fictional versions of alternate-reality versions of people Willis based his original comics on?
It’s literally vent art, Joyce.
does Julia touch Moe’s butt?
Moe is a dastardly evil but incredibly hot guy (within Joyce’s cartooning capabilities) and both the characters and the author go out of the way to pretend he is not.