Yesterday in the Dumbing of Age Book 12 Kickstarter we unveiled the first SURPRISE MAGNET — the SARAH MAGNET tier! Search down the list of tiers and this handy graphic on the left will alert you to where you can sign up for a Sarah magnet to be included with your Book 12. Or search a little further down for the SARAH AND LIZ MAGNETS tier if you want both sisters!
We also unlocked FREE WALKY MAGNETS for everybody who pledges for tangible, mailable goods! Get a book? You get a free Walky magnet! You get a Digital Plus Magnet tier? You get a free Walky magnet along with your magnet choice in your stamped envelope! You get PICK THREE or PICK FOUR MAGNETS? Guess what, now you get four or five magnets, respectively! It’s pretty sweet.
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taking bets now
– Walky hurts himself today 3:1
– crown of shit/crown of thorns (even odds)
– everyone he knows goes away 100:1
– …in the end 0:1
Crown of fire 1000:1
What will you give me for Walky lets us down?
I’m thinking Walky makes a new, transformative “Hurt” cover, specifically of Trent Reznor’s cover of Johnny Cash’s cover. Where Reznor originally sang about getting dumped and Cash made it about dying old and alone without changing a word (and who even knows what Reznor wanted his cover to be about), Walky makes it about being five years old and watching your snow pile melt away.
Danny can do the music.
Cash literally changed a word (crown of shit into crown of thorns)
Reznor’s cover of Cash’s cover?
Yes. After Cash covered Reznor, Trent then did a new version covering Cash’s cover. But where it really shone is when Parton did a cover of Mozart’s cover of Reznor’s cover of Cash’s cover of Hurt.
n.b. Reznor *wrote*
Hurt and NIN performed the original version. Reznor’s isn’t a cover, it *is* Hurt. Johnny Cash covered NIN/Reznor’s Hurt, not vice versa.
I can see Walky just parodying the entire song
WHAT HAVE I BECOME ♪
MY SWEDISH FRIEND ♫
EVERYONE I KNOW ♪
GOES AWAY INDIAN(A U) ♫
AND YOU COULD HAVE IT ALL ♪
LYING PILE OF DIRT ♫
I WILL LET YOU DOWN ♪
I WILL MAKE YOU HURL ♫
NOOO JOE’S SAD EYES
Joe is very upset to be compared to Edward Cullen (I have never read/seen any Twilight thing, but I somehow absorbed his full name from cultural osmosis).
This always confounds me about the internet. Like, i haven’t seen a single scene of Breaking Bad, yet i feel like i know the story and characters solely through being exposed to Breaking Bad memes and parody songs.
Deserved. Joe’s been a massively gross asshole, and Walky hasn’t been shown any other side of Joe
to be fair I don’t think Joe’s seen Walky at his finest either.
Walky has a finest?
Admittedly he has his moments, but they’re like moments.
I think it’s optimistic to say that Walky ever held it together for a full fortieth of an hour, which is technically the definition of a moment
I can’t find any sources online that define “moment” as 90 seconds (or any specific duration).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(time)
How many doom foretelling coincidences is Willis going to drag Joe and Joyce past?
Everyone’s just jealous, Joe.
It’s okay. Joyce was never allowed to read those sparkly vampire books and she has no idea what Walky’s on about.
She was, way back when she said that she liked the books.
Presumably, Carol was unaware of how Mormon they are.
She doesn’t want a soft boi. She wants a hard boi. A rock hard boi.
In all the right places.
I think she wants one part of him soft. The tush. A nice soft tush to knead her face with.
I mean, mechanically speaking, the tush would need to be firmer than her face to get any meaning kneading done.
Hey now Walky, that is NOT what Twilight is about.
…The sparkly vampire remains an asshole, believe you me.
I know right, he never even treats her as a partner until she becomes a vampire who is stronger then him, until then he treated her like a pet. Jacob wasn’t much better since he just wanted to have her, he was a man child who then imprinted on a literal baby… the author has some really fucked up ideas on romance…
Twilight, and its author, are very, very Mormon.
That explains so much
religious/sexual repression is a hell of a drug
I spent 1973-78 in Utah, you don’t need to tell me.
A lot of the initial cringe about that book would have been alleviated if he was haunting a college, not a high school.
the non-initial cringe afterward has no saving grace however.
For some reason I think more of Julia Gray and her vampir friend in space.
Awww, poor Joe.
And you get those metaphors!
The second panel Walky looks like a giant saluting a tiny grave.
Here lies Walky’s snow mountain.
Again you reach to Heaven.
We already talked about ends. But what HAS he become?
I’d say get off your high hill, Walky, but it sort of melted didn’t it?
Much like Dottys aspirations!
Yeah, this is uncharacteristically kind of a dick move by Walky.
Dude, yet not helping the threesome chances we were discussing yesterday.
He’s blown the chance of a threesome with Joyce and Joe, unfortunately.
Fortunately!
Tunately!
Ately, continuing the progression.
What about the metaphor about your ex coming to sabotage your current relationship? Where’s that one hiding in the mud?
dorothy and walky are gonna be getting muddying their relationship status? 8D
My favorite thing about twilight is actually a thread I saw.
Stephanie Myer announced she was making another vampire love story. But this one is about a normal guy and a sexy female vampire who is torn between trying to murder him and being madly in love with him.
And the entire thread was just guys going.
“Oh no. Oh I GET IT NOW.”
“Oh my god I’m so sorry for everyone I made fun of. I totally get it now.”
Nope. Still don’t get it, and I’m bi.
Yeah, same. Still negative interest. And if the normal guy is a high schooler too, still creepy as all fuck.
That’s just Carmilla but straight.
So Lady Dimitrescu then?
GOD. I would let her be MY Resident Evil.
Pfft okay, but no my self preservation kicks in if I haft to walk a tightrope of a line between sweet loving or a brutal death.
Wasn’t that a plot line in season 1 of WWDitS?
Wonder Woman Drives in the Sky?
Willy Wonka Dives into the Soap?
Why Wouldn’t Danny inevitably treat Sal?
if you mean
jeskjeff and nadia, it was her husband who was killing him constantlytho i’m sure tehre’s been plenty of accidents otherwise lol
Still quite close! And I did mean Nadja and sweet boring Jesk.
Ahh, ever reincarnating Gregor 🙂 awesome storyline that was, thanks for reminding me
and also the movie how the vamps were hyped over Stu who was just a ‘normal’ guy (but also like their editor or so that the cast just had in the movie for fun)
tho ngl even pre-reincarnation memory restoration and the “thor” accent imitation, i can see him being a decent enough guy to date
I mean, there’s not really anything wrong with melting into a pile of mud. Piles of mud can provide hours of fun and entertainment!
I have to disagree if the mud is half car exhaust and asphalt bits.
Well don’t worry Walky, if it’s any consolation, your antics have just generated another game idea!!! 🤩 🌈
Will you tell us or should we wait for the grand reveal?
Mostly still deciding LOL XD
Gotta eat mac and cheese and pumpkin spice latte and meditate on 1984 Transformers. Maybe that’ll help me channel Willis’s autism and reach a decision sooner while these strips are still relevant.
The phrase “channel Willis’s autism” has got such a specific vibe to it, very 2010s Newgrounds.
OK I’m going to say it but what Walky said in the 4th panel was an asshole thing to say…I mean he’s partially right though and yet not as harsh about it as Dorothy despite being a lot more blunt. But the hurt in Joe’s eyes makes me a tad bit sad.
(No reddit post tonight)
If you ever tell someone their relationship is a bad idea loudly and in public you’re kind of being an asshole, but doubly so because Walky doesn’t realize how much this is tearing Joe up because Joe *knows* he’s a bad boyfriend and he thinks she deserves better. Walky absorbing some of Radiah here.
Again it’s no different they what Dorothy said to them, but also unlike her he didn’t tell Joe to back off and beg Joyce to not go foe it. Walky just doesn’t approve but that’s it.
Sometimes people need to hear what an asshole has to say, I think a few really bad relationships around me could have been avoided if I was more of an asshole.
Or at least afforded you a few satisfying “i told you so” moments
I mean, barring joe murdering or physically harming Joyce, this isn’t a relationship worth warning against. Joyce knows Joe’s past, she can see he’s trying, it’s up to her to give him a chance and up to him to try to prove he can change. Nobody is more aware of their situation than them and as such the others shouldn’t be feeling so free to weigh in, much though I appreciate they are trying to protect Joyce. They’re all kids, none of them have actually Been There, realistically speaking.
From: someone who was told repeatedly by everyone in my life that I was making a bad decision to go with my current partner, now of 9 years, father of my children and the best person I’ve ever known.
True, but that’s based on what we know about Joe. Walky doesn’t know that.
When you see the local sex pest putting the moves on a naive girl whose notions of romance are shaped by rom-coms and “sparkly vampire stories”, that she knows all about him and that he’s actually changed isn’t the way to bet.
Hopefully if Booster didn’t talk Dotty out of a bad idea Walky standing in a Puddle of Mudd quoting Johny Cash and or Nine Inch Nails will.
Johny Cashes version was better.
Sal already called dibs on the Johnny Cash version earlier in the comic, so Walky gets the other one.
Trent whole heartedly agreed.
Reznor wrote it, so he’s quoting Reznor, never mind that Cash cut the definitive recording.
If we assume that Walky, as an IU freshman, is at most nineteen years old, this means that (due to the sliding time scale) the original Nine Inch Nails version (1995) as well as the Johnny Cash cover (2002) were both released before Walky had even been born.
That doesn’t mean he can’t enjoy older bands or at least know the lyrics I mean my favorite band is the Beattles and all of their albums were released almost 20 years before I was born.
he’s allowed to enjoy whatever he wants, but the references in the comic are getting more and more outdated as time goes by. it just stretches suspension of disbelief somewhat.
maybe Willis should just do a twenty year timeskip at some point.
Hmm that’d be a nice premise for the sequel comic. Very homestuck
Hurt is a famous, iconic song. How is referencing it stretching suspension of disbelief?
it’s not just Hurt, like i said, it’s been a trend. or so i feel
For me, “Hurt” gets a pass both because it is very famous and because it’s been referenced by both Walky and Sal, which leaves room for fun speculation about how it might have come up during their upbringing.
But in general, yeah, I can see the pattern. And it’s like, yeah, young people can and do talk about older media/trends/etc. But they talk about very current things, too, which doesn’t seem to happen as much in comic*. And that’s understandable– like, with the sliding timescale, you want something that’s not going to fade into obscurity quickly, which you might not be sure about with some of the latest things. And you want a decent portion of your audience to get your references, and this audience definitely seems to skew older than the characters– plus, sometimes it just takes time to be reasonably sure many people have heard of something, regardless of age.
Some of Willis’ solution in the past has been to creating media that only exists in-universe for his characters to reference, but that has the issue of needing to be built up in order to be referenced.
Overall, I wouldn’t say it bothers me, but I can see how it could be noticeable in a negative way at times.
*Two biggest references in my classroom this year (average age of 11): Rickrolling and The Owl House.
i’m honestly amazed rickrolling is still a thing XD
Yeah, I was gonna say, if rickrolling came up in comic, I would have called that out as something kids these days wouldn’t know about.
Its longevity amazes.
I think both versions of the song are great, they just work in different ways.
Cash’s hits deep because it hits from a “regretting a life spent in decadence with little more then glitter and dust holding it up.” stance.
Trent’s hits deep because it feels like a young life’s potential wasted before it could even get moving.
Just from shifting the tone and tempo.
That‘s a good take, actually. Personal preference aside, both versions are pretty great.
Just wanted to see if someone got the reference and commented on it or if I have to do it myself.
You did, thank you. ^^
I do smell the faint parallel – though unintended – of Walky “advising” Joyce to stay away from Joe the same way Dotty would…
Just as much as I should be staying away from Puddle of Mudd
Man, Walky has been on absolute fire of late… Also kinda’ not holding his punches; he’s been out for blood. And, since he’s on fire & out for blood, it’s also bringing out his smarter side.
Is this a villain origin story?
I kind of think he’s being setup for a fall. A small fall into what was formerly a giant snow pile. Which could itself be a metaphor for his own relationships.
The Dark Night Guy
You know, I am getting tired of everyone trashing Joe and talking down to Joyce like she’s a child who doesn’t know what she’s doing.
Me too.
I’m pretty sure at this point she’s going to fuck him to spite everyone else (and also because she clearly wants to)
I hope not. She’s got enough to work through. She doesn’t need her motivations for her first time to be unnecessarily complicated.
Walky so rarely butts into her business that I don’t really mind it in this instance, even if I disagree with him.
Is Walky even talking about Joe? If he is why does he even care? Also people standing in mud shouldn’t throw mudpies Walky less they want mudpies thrown at them.
I suppose Walky does care about Joyce a bit but and Walky does tend to be insightful I don’t think he so perceptive he can immediately parse out the nature of Joyce’s and Joe’s realtionship dynamic that quickly without engaging with Joyce and Joe for more then one sentence.
Well, obviously he hasn’t parsed out their actual relationship dynamic. He doesn’t know they’ve been talking for months and that Joe’s really trying to change.
He does know Joe’s reputation and he does know Joyce’s ideas about romance, so his read is a natural one. And why else would Joe be interacting with a woman?
Same. Joe’s been awfully good about it so far.
I think that’s the theme here. You can see it in Billie’s story with her new friend group too.
People change, and sometimes your friends hold you back because they still see you the way you were. Joyce and Joe want to become new people, and their friends aren’t letting them.
The latest arcs have felt increasingly heavy-handed. I just don’t buy that Walky would have the insight or even CARE ENOUGH to say something about it, especially unprompted. I get that we want to explore Joyce’s choices but it’s getting old.
Walky is all about pop culture.
He’d have this idea based off memes alone.
Joe’s eyes clearly saying “Thanks, buttmunch.”
He’s like an enigmatic hermit in the middle of an Arthurian quest. Except he’s channeling Mike: https://www.dumbingofage.com/target/
while that’s actually a pretty armour piercing comment from walky, since he seems more intent on the former snow hill I’m not sure he even means anything by it
just here to use all the metaphors
Damn, everyone but Joe underestimating how well Joyce knows herself and Joe. Girl’s got agency, she can use it however she sees fit. And for months she’s used it to befriend and be there for Joe.
walky knows how joyce has been about her ‘husband search’ and barely knows joe, so i imagine that’d probably be something he’d think is happening, more closer to their first few months than now but it’s not like he’s rly been tracking their emotional journeys but that take is more him being snarky versus outta concern like dorothy was
Yeah, Walky and Joe get along okay in the past, but he’s also really not been around Joe’s more flattering moments. The issue is that Joyce, Danny, and Amber are like the only ones who know he’s trying. Maaaaybe Sal, depends what she’s been around.
And remember that Joe hasn’t exactly been broadcasting his attempts to change. After the list and the donut apology, he hasn’t been blatantly hitting on every woman he sees, but other than that he’s kind of been keeping up his image
Nobody else seems to understand all the religious things about her hinged on being religious. She might be sending mixed signals, as she’s unevenly worked through it and dropped her religious habits, but it should occur to Walky that maybe she’s not looking for a husband right now and she knows what she’s doing.
Maybe throw in a little projection, he knows he’s hot, thinks he’s garbage, and expects Lucy has their entire relationship planned out. He thinks Joe is like him, so panel 4 is really Walky talking to Joe.
Maybe Asher and Jennifer are also on his mind.
People rarely drop every aspect of their religious upbringing at once when they deconvert.
But even if she isn’t still looking for a husband, should he think she’s changed far enough she’s looking for the no feelings casual sex Joe advertises? Which she clearly isn’t.
I’m an apostate, I know how it goes. I even mentioned not dropping all the religious habits at once.
His “warning” is specifically about Joe not being husband material. I’m not going to get into an argument about what you just made up.
…Walky I think you might be seriously underestimating both of them.
1. When I first looked at the second panel, I didn’t think Walky was wearing pants.
2. Sal has also invoked this song!: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/02-this-is-the-way-that-we-love/hurt-2/
3. I’m both tired of people of trashing on Twilight and also like, ugh, Twilight whenever it comes up.
Imagine if Walky really wasn’t wearing pants and it was just that no one found that worth commenting on.
Everyone he knows goes away in the end panel.
Surely one of the metaphors will be about “Melting the Ice Queen” plots.
Potentially dangerous poll! Which version of “Hurt” was better: Nine Inch Nails or Johnny Cash?
Cash on the barrel head.
Even Trent Reznor says that the Cash one was superior. He openly lamented that the song was no longer his.
All the way to the bank. Song writers make a lot of money off a hit song. Often more than the one singing it.
I’m pretty sure even trent reznor liked the johnny cash version better
Cash obviously.
Cash’s is so different in tone and intention that it feels very apples and oranges, like if we were comparing Klaus Nomi or the Munchkin Land people on which version of “Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead” is better.
I prefer the NIN version, but I recognize that it’s because The Downward Spiral was an important album to me and that Johnny Cash’s version is better.
SO, I’m a huge NIN fan (their music has gotten me through some very tough times). I remember when I was much younger the Johnny Cash cover of “Hurt” came out. My mom was a back-up singer and played the keyboard in a local PA female rock band before I was born, so she knows music, and said that she thought Cash’s cover was better.
I did NOT believe her at first but now that I’m older I can hear the pain in Cash’s version and I’ve learned that the anger in the NIN version (IMHO) is just a part of the depression and hopelessness embodied in the song. I am clinically depressed, and I still get angry A LOT…but sometimes anger is a defense mechanism to avoid having to face things we’d rather not.
I am VERY SORRY for having my feelings all over the comments section and if I have upset anyone with my comment! I’d just like to note that a bunch of years ago, pre-pandemic, I got to hear Trent Reznor singing “Hurt” at a rock festival. I know he’s getting older (as we all are!) and he sang it differently than the last time I saw him in concert. It sounded more like how Johnny Cash sang it, and less angry and more sadly heart-felt.
I think both versions of the song are great, they just work in different ways.
Cash’s hits deep because it hits from a “regretting a life spent in decadence with little more then glitter and dust holding it up.” stance.
Trent’s hits deep because it feels like a young life’s potential wasted.
Cash’s song is sung on the balcony of a Malibu beach house as the sun is setting, as an old, worn out rock star realizes he sold his soul and everything he loved for fame and money. His life is over and he’s hoping to find one person who could care about him in the final days.
Trent’s song is sung in a dirty club bathroom, as a young addict realizes their hit was dosed, and they’re going to OD, with no one left to save them from their self destructive behavior. They beg for just one person to find and save them, but they’ve burned their bridges and they know there’s no one there to save them this time.
At least that’s how I visualize the music when I hear them.
Cash, easily.
Cash’s version has the advantage of having an entire person’s life worth of lore fleshing it out.
They’re very different so it’s hard to compare, but Hurt isn’t really my favorite NIN song anyway (that title goes to Copy of a), so I don’t feel bad giving it to Cash.
I could see Joyce getting really into Head Like a Hole. Although given the place her mind has been lately, she might get fixated on Closer instead.
Copy of A, great choice, one of my favorites too. I also really dig “The Good Soldier” and “Came Back Haunted.”
NIN obviously. 😛 Because it represents the original vision. Also, I like the raw and powerful arrangement from Reznor better than the mellow Cash interpretation. Still a great fan of the whole downward spiral set, nothing comes close to it, style-wise.
But I have to say, as covers go, this is an excellent one. Cash was an amazing musician, obvs. Of all the versions this song got, this is easily the best.
Cash. I said at the time, and still maintain, NIN’s version was about angst, while Cash’s version was about PAIN.
I’ve never heard the NIN version, but the Cash version sounds like he earned.
Even NIN considered Cash had nailed it.
dubstep remix incorporating both of them tbh
lol i’m surprised walky would even care about joe’s rep or see it , though he has changed himself after dorothy. maybe not that much but baby steps in walky’s case lol
Probably just a random non-sequitur, nothing to do with Joe.
it does seem weird that walky would think of joe as an asshole, other than him having a ‘playboy/fuckboy’ personality or whatever, i don’t think there’s been any cases where they were esp hostile to each other versus him just being a ‘dime a dozen fratbro’ or whatever but walky sasses everyone so i don’t think it’s as malicious
We know he cares about Joyce, so I think if anything, he’d be more likely to be saying it to sass Joyce than out of beef with Joe, who he doesn’t know has undergone a transformatiion since Joe’s been hiding his revelations from basically everyone but Joyce, Danny, and Amber.
not exactly sure if he’d rly consider him and joyce ‘friends’, tho i think it’s maybe like 20% less strong than ‘care’ and knows dorothy cares about her, but it does still feel like he’d be saying it as just being snarky as opposed to there being undertones of him (subconsciously or not) thinking it’s a bad idea, i’d say he’d def cares more about jen but other than the occasional hangout i doubt he’s gonna suggest that /those two/ break up either. (not that jen would listen anyways)
Wait, wasn’t Walky just thrown? Wonder what happened between then and now.
I, too, was expecting a scene where Jennifer gets her ass handed to her.
Will she ever point her rage at someone who will friggin press charges? Or will she instinctively point it at people she feels are less then her, meaning people who won’t?
I kinda hope she punts Raidah, and Raidah sues. That would be soap operatic!
Jennifer’s got a good arm, he just flew and flew.
He had to land somewhere.
Gotta ice down those injuries quickly.
Yeah let’s all listen to Walky, the well known expert on relationships, who can’t even make a decision for himself unless Dorothy is there to tell him what to do
I don’t think that’s fair. He’s young, and there’s no shame in knowing when you’re too close or too new to a situation to benefit from advice from someone you trust.
Look at that bongo, eating crackers like he owns the place.
Knowing Walky… He just trowing this dialogue without eve realizing its weight. Accidental bullseye
Ah the good old fear of losing your personality when you get into a more serious relationship.
a fear I’ve never had or understood, but I guess for people who strongly associate their identities with their habits, this would certainly be frightening.
We are who we are, whether we’re wearing jean pyjamas, banging random chicks, or shopping for curtains with the girl we want to marry one day. It isn’t a change of personality as much as it is moving onto another stage of life.
Indeed. If I could ban one word from being used in discussing personal development, it would be “change.” People don’t change, but they do discover undeveloped facets of their character from time to time.
Are Walky and Dorothy going to rekindle their chemistry over complaining how much they hate the idea of Joyce and Joe dating?
Or will it make one or both of them reassess the reasons they themselves are drawn to each other and possibly also be more forgiving and open minded to at least Joyce?
Kind of hoping it’s a Dorothy implosion that makes her realize she’s micromanaging and judging Joyce when she can’t even keep herself off of a spoken for (and honestly immature and ocassionally kind of harmful himself) dude. She shouldn’t be judging.
Excited by this mudpile of possibilities and metaphors also. Who else will stop by?
“joyce and joe hooking up is totally a mistake”
“yeah totally…at least we won’t make the same mistake”
“Haha yeah……” lol. tho i imagine she’d prolly stop herself before doing anything too far out of consideration for lucy
In fairness, it would be a different mistake
Walky doesn’t actually have anything against Joe, but what he does have is a pile of dirt and a perfectly good metaphor to draw sitting right in front of him. And that’s a prime sassing opportunity that he simply cannot bear to squander.
Dumbing of Age, Book 13: This Hill’s Gonna Generate Like A Dozen Metaphors And I’m Gonna Use ’Em All
Please, please, please let this be the title.
Part of me wants to say “Walky, what the hell are you doing here and why aren’t you consummating your 3rd date with Lucy before she dies like a ferret in heat?”
But, well… If he’d honestly rather stand in a pile of mud than do that, maybe it was wrong to hope this would work out. Sighhhhh, go perform another sex w/ Dotts I guess. That’s where this is all going, right?
Unfortunately for the two of then Jenifer yeeted him out of the room.
There’s other rooms! Walky’s got a room, darndangit! Horny college students generally find a way if so motivated.
Lucy also has classes
Walky does have a room, a room we saw Booster leaving, in fact! Missed opportunities all around, but maybe for the best if Dotty’s going to explode her life and Walky’s relationship right on his nono-parts.
Note that walky is pointedlynot saying that Joyce and/or Joe can have it all, his empire of dirt. He’s channeling Adele instead.
in light of that, the sparkly asshole vampire in panel 4 has to be the snow pile. Walky was really hoping to fuck the snow pile and turn it into a softboi husband, but instead he’s rolling in the deep.
Well, and also he thinks this is probably some sort of metaphor for something somewhere, who knows, maybe he’ll fling it about and someone will eventually take it personally
I really need to start reading before posting…
or ctrl-F’ing? =P
No, he’s channeling Nine Inch Nails. Or Johnny Cash channeling Nine Inch Nails, no one did it better.
so, i know that, but do you know that Johnny Cash sings “you can have it all”, not I could’ve had it all”
to be clear i’m not claiming he’s not quoting Reznor/Cash. it’s a “yes and”
It’s not direct, but it may be foreboding
There’s at least a dozen metaphors, two shopping carts, a ransacked bicycle, and $3.50 worth of nickel deposit bottles in that thing.
flinging alot of judgement for a dude that just got javelin tossed
Wait since when did walky have beef with Joe?
I’m not sure Walky and Joe have ever spoken to Beef in the Dumbiverse, let alone had him.
Seriously, I don’t think “You’re a girl who is, last I checked, on the lookout for Husband Material, and he’s a guy who is, last I checked, on the lookout for Guilt-Free Hookups, are you sure you’ve thought this through?” necessarily indicates anything against Joe as such, just against this.
To be fair, it’s been a while since Walky checked in with Joyce in a meaningful way. Emotional labor is something other people need to do, after all.
Lone Duck wins alllll of this. Walky has been illustrated completely failing to have empathy or understanding for where other people in his spheres are currently at in their lives. He is by his nature, oblivious and self-absorbed and emotional labor-avoidant.
Okay, I know what Walky’s line in panel 3 is a reference to, and yet the fact he says “could’ve had it all” rather than “could have it all” means that what I’m now humming is “Rolling in the Deep” by Adele.
Panel 4 Joe: More zombie than vampire.
Walky is surprisingly insightful lately.
I agree with him: you can’t really change somebody, you can only change yourself. In this case everything started from Joe so I’m eager to see where the whole thing leads.
Indeed. And even so, somebody wanting to change is a rare, RARE thing indeed. I would say the vast majority of people I’ve met will never, ever change their nature, simply because they don’t see it as being anything wrong, and because, well, it’s IN their nature. (And I include myself in this, because I know I do have flaws that I’m also fairly disinclined to change.)
Maybe it’s just the people I hang out with or that I’m trans and queer, but honestly almost everyone I know has put in real effort to change their behaviour, to not let the things that society has pushed into them be reflected back. So many people I know have spent a whole lot of effort to learn and change so they don’t continue to harm those around them.
Like I’d say literally most of the people in my life. I have, my wife, my partners, my friends, my father. Heck my father used to be homophobic from a combination of society, ignorance, and a bad experience but now he’s actively working to try to get queer people to be accepted by his church denomination.
My guess is you’re missing the change that is around you because it’s been gradual
yeah but I don’t think he’s thinking that Joe can change himself, I think he’s thinking that people *can’t* change. It’s a really pervasive (and wrong) idea. And it really seems like Joe *wants* to change. If he can realize that it won’t be easy or smooth or fast then I think he’ll get to where he wants to be.
I don’t think he’s thinking anything nearly so deep as that. Even if he thinks people can change, why would he think Joe has changed?
Women being able to change the bad boys by the power of their love is a common rom-com theme and he knows Joyce bases a lot of her romantic expectations on that. And sex pests pretending to change in order to get in their next target’s pants is common in real life.
His take is perfectly reasonable. Wrong, but reasonable.
Turns out, both Walkertons are fans of (Johnny Cash’s?) Hurt. Well, either that, or Willis is XD
and Danny!
…or (and) Willis.
NIN is part of Gen X’s theme music.
I didn’t realize until I got to the comments why NIN Hurt was going through my head– the lyrics just triggered it subconsciously.
Walky, you should tell Lucy that too
that she melted his snow ass?
wait no
Don’t be an ass, Walky. Not everyone has to mourn your loss.
The snow pile is melted? So, it’s like, mid-June now?
You are forgetting global warming my friend.
Is Walky going to let Lucy down? Will he make her hurt?
Dang, walky done got broke. And worrying himself…also nice Cash reference.
p.s. neener neener neener.
Has Walky stolen the Dorothy’s idea to blow up everthig??
Yeah, they are really soulmates…
Walky pretty much calls a guy twice his size an asshole, right in front of his nascent girlfriend. A convincing way to say Joe is level-headed and nonviolent at least.
More truth bombs from Walky. Fortunately for Joe, this is a story. Not sure about the wish fulfillment part though.
Mike and booster are really rubbing off on him
Somehow I feel like panel 4 is uncharacteristically cruel for Walky. Like he’s emotionally lazy, but not such a twat as to call Joe an asshole to his face, right?
Well he did just get physically thrown out of a room where he was having a promising moment with his girlfriend. He might be in a really bad mood.
Oh yeah. Jennifer is just going to get away with that, huh?
Hopefully.
When the hill dies before you do… A tragedy.
Okay I laughed.
Walky is being a dick again. Dorothy gave him some really bad advice.
Lot of her advice lately has been questionable at best. Will accept it if it all comes crashing down at once.
And Walky doen’t question it, especially as he feels it gives him “permission” to act like a dick
this might be my single favorite strip you’ve ever done, dude.
this is delightful.
OH MY GOD NO JOE’S FACE !!!!!!!!!!!! TOT
lookit Joe’s EYES
if that isn’t softboi husband material, idk what is
Yeah, Walky, but “trying to fix boys” is a sadly tendency, when a girls lost her energy to try to stop a boy to be an ass, a womanizer, etc.
It’s a very old and dated trope; but also pretty common in real life.
Crossing finger for Joyce don’t keep trying and trying to turn Joe a “decent” guy.
So… thejeff and others have been pointing this out for a while, but i’m getting a bit irritated with Joe’s “redemption arc” now, because the only challenge here is convincing everyone that, actually, he’s cool now.
And like, textually, he actually seems to be. what he seems to have to overcome is uh… that he’s a bit ashamed of himself, and people think he’s a cringy fuckboy?
there’s been, as far as i can remember, no trace of him having to work against his own chauvinistic tendencies. like, sure, he has an issue with feelings, and that’s an interesting challenge to his and Joyce’s relationship. but that’s between them, essentially.
like, the do-list was gross but also to some extent unfortunate and he immediately felt sorry and demonstrated contrition rather than double down or gravitating towards a clique of gross dudes who would validate his misogyny.
it feels like a reflection on how boys will be fucked up by their patriarcal upbringing and do harm, and we get to see how he overcomes this, which is valid and cool and fine, but also… it’s kind of… easy mode? idk?
ok i don’t know what i wanna say, i’m just getting annoyed at how many commenters are cheering for him, and gripe at how badly he’s being slandered by the other characters, and it feels like the story wants us to have that reaction?
and it feels disconcertingly remote from my experience of dealing with sexism in my group of friends, where people will make excuses for the shitty dude and shield him from accountability and passively or actively ostracize the victims instead. yeah, i don’t know, i’m just kind of bugged by this storyline, and i’m not quite sure why. meh.
Joe’s been a pretty good friend to Joyce. But more importantly, going to college can expose you to ideas that your family did not. My impression is he behaved the way he had because that’s what he thought guys were supposed to do – and was perhaps never comfortable with it at all.
sure sure. i don’t have an issue with the internal coherence of the story, mostly.
i should probably start tagging my posts /doylism or sth
that’s maybe not quite fair, i am after all critiquing a story beat as being (to me) not engaging. so let me try a bit harder.
the thing is i’m not sure what bothers me exactly. maybe that the stakes feel artificially raised by everyone around Joe thinking he’s trash, when we the readers are meant to see him as actually not that. and so we are encouraged to empathize with him, and that feels… unearned.
to rephrase what i already said, maybe what i find vexing is that it feels like a missed opportunity to handle some actual real-world issues around gender dynamics. do boys have to deal with a negative stigma of being a sexist pig even after they’ve earnestly worked on their issues and changed? for sure. and there’s important, complex stories to be told, and conversations to be had about how and when people might start to trust them again, how the people around them should deal with that situation, how they should make themselves accountable for the harm they did once they’ve become aware of it, etc and so on.
but i don’t really get the feeling that that’s quite what this arc is about. Sure, Joe has done some bad things, but nowhere *near* what so many boys and men get away with before they are subjected to the level of general mistrust and contempt that Joe is getting from his peers, of all genders. and that’s not to make a judgement one way or another, but the reality is, right?
so… it feels kind of hollow to me, this whole thing. like, Joe has real issues to overcome, again, mostly having to do with committment, with emotional vulnerability, and to that extent he does feel fleshed-out, lived-in.
but regarding the “problem” of everyone suspecting him of being a predator, well… i would say, that’s rarely something that non-predators, especially of the white*, cis, straight variety, have to deal with? so that feels off to me. you know?
(*ok he’s jewish but i don’t think that’s a common stereotype? and if it is then i’m just ignorant and i apologize but also, i sure haven’t noticed the story actually addressing that angle)
(sigh)…it’s complicated, right?
maybe we’re supposed to accept that, within the in-universe moral framework (where the bar seems to be a bit higher than in most real-life, circles i’ve known), Joe actually has been just that creepy, (and i’m not saying he hasn’t been a creep just that, again, i’ve known people doing so much worse and being given pass after pass… it is a subjective assessment, for sure).
Maybe Willis didn’t feel like writing a sympathetic protagonist who was a full-on assaulter or something equally triggering. maybe it’s also a timeline thing: if he really had been way more of a creep, the slow, well, creep of the timeline would never allow enough time to get him to a place of “redemption” (see: Mike getting bumped off for that exact reason). maybe that’s the line Willis is trying to tread. i guess i’m just not personally buying it :shrug:
or maybe i’m, again, not really able to articulate what i don’t like about this storyline. i was hoping to start a conversation, but obviously it’s a bit late in the fay for that. doesn’t help that i’m in a time zone where the comic updates at dawn. ah well
oops, last §, late in the *day
I think that’s a lot of it. Joe was always going to be a sympathetic protagonist (or at least romantic partner for the lead), so he couldn’t push too far into negative territory. (Though on the other hand, Amber/Amazi-girl, who got pretty far in the bad/violent direction, which might not push as many buttons as the sex pest one?)
This led to Joe’s bad side being more performative than real and the real part was kind of abstract – like the list. Makes it easy to redeem.
But it also makes it easy to look past all the massive red flags he was showing and think there really wasn’t anything to redeem at all. And thus makes it easier to dismiss the same kinds of flags seen elsewhere.
I’d love to see him have to deal with someone he’d slept with and hurt personally – not an actual assault of course, but maybe someone he’d let think there was going to be more than a one night stand.
It’s meta. That thing you describe, where the friends make excuses for the shitty guy. Willis doesn’t have to have characters do that, he’s got the commentariat. 🙂
Hahahaha
If Willis has made all this conflict on purpose, I’ll gonna praise him. It’s a level of conflict I found only in great writers.
Also: ugh this circle of friends, and I sorry for this situation.
Huh.
I kinda hoped that the next strip with Walky would show him doing a tuck-and-shoulder roll, then bouncing to his feet unharmed and undismayed.
Maybe saying something like: “Y’know, Jennifer, mature adult people use their words instead of flying into violent rages. You coulda just asked me to leave.” . . . “Hey, Lucy, can I walk you to class?”
I would also have liked to see that.
Walky’s talking about Joe and Joyce. Walky’s talking about Lucy and himself.
Walky talky.
Walky’s talking about Jennifer and Asher.
Oh no Joe is sad 🙁
methinks walky doth protest too much
literally can everyone stop shitting on Joe for like. Five minutes
Logging in for the first time in a while to say… this is a really good strip.
So, I can’t see the cartoon many days because an advertising popup covers it. Is this intentional?
Lucy could/should be told some of these metaphors, tbh.