Not making sense is the point. Replacing a word with another unrelated word and declaring it to mean the same thing is confusing, so it forms an in-group of those who have been informed, who can then look down on the out-group.
I was honestly just using the word because I legitimately feel like Ruth’s lines in panel 4 was… a mood. Not to create an in-group and certainly not to look down on people that didn’t understand.
“Mood” does not exist to make people feel superior. It’s a short, casual way to express “wow, I feel this situation/experience/expression”, like how a lot of slang is a short, casual way to express something.
Are we gonna say “yeet” is meant to make people feel superior next? Because that’s really not how memes and/or slang work, unless your social circle is entirely made of assholes.
The most interesting varieties of slang actually create an in-group of those who have been informed, who can then avoid being reported to the police by the out-group.
That’s closer to shibboleth. Knowing how a word is pronounced (for instance Cairo, Egypt vs Cairo, IL) or a regional custom (secret handshake!) does create an in-group. Shibboleth is named for this biblical account, where they determined enemies by showing the written word and listening to see if they pronounced it SH or S:
5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?”
If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’”
If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.
“Mood” “yeet” “yoink” etc are just memed words. No one is looking down on people that don’t know or use them (usually it’s the opposite). There’s too much to keep up with, even if a person tried.
I am happy to know that I am not the one puzzled by this use of the word “mood”. Not understanding slang is one of those alarming signals that you are not that young anymore.
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
Not me I have tons of dreams … and I’m not doing well to reach any of them. Its scary, like I have all these ideas in my head so much of what I think and believe and love and nobody sees it and when I die it all just be gone and none of it will have helped anybody. Its scary and paralyzing and thus a positive feedback loop … and this was probably too much. Sorry. I hope you find what you want.
Hey, I feel ya on pretty much all of this. always had so many dreams & never figured out how to execute. And now realizing that there’s so many of those that won’t make it out of my brain into the real world… After all this time the only thing I’ve figured out of this mess is a. choose something rather than trying to do ALL THE THINGS at once and b. put it in your schedule.
Yeah, this. It’s normal to have more ideas and plans than you’re able to execute. In no way a personal failure, just a brain having lots of ideas.
The important thing is to occasionally pick an idea that looks fun and go all in on it. Which is something I need to get better at, myself. I think I didn’t a bunch of my twenties beating myself up about all the things I ended up not doing, and only now I’m slowly realising I don’t need to, it’s not physically possible, and not all plans are good enough to be worth my energy. And that’s kinda liberating.
As a person with ADHD this is very relatable. As a person with depression I forgot I used to care about that. It’s nice to be reminded that I’m capable of that kind of passion (even if rarely the execution). Mental health recovery has forced me to pick one plan at a time and while that’s excruciatingly slow going (especially since I will switch plans every 5% of progress) it’s at least less overwhelming…
There is Warren Buffet’s advice. Write down your top 25 career/life goals, then circle your top five. The top five becomes what you focus on and the other 20 are your “avoid at all cost” list. Pay them no heed until you start completing the top 5.
I recommend the Magic Lessons with Elizabeth Gilbert podcast. It didn’t get me started on any projects, but it felt like it could have for an alternate version of me that was the kind of person who would start a project.
I have tons of dreams. They mostly involve me either getting trapped in a house with my abuser or flying really awkwardly through a forest.
For real though the idea of having dreams is scary. I’ve very recently worked up to the terrifying and liberating point of “considering having a career plan” and I’m nearing 40.
Basically replaces Leafs with Sabers except it’s even worse beacuse at least the leafs won many Stanley cups. Hopefully they never win again beacuse the Leafs are evil and so are the Habs and Lightning as well.
It’s pretty clear from her conversation with Becky about Yale that she was already wavering hard. Becky even pointed out a point adjacent to the one Raidah made.
And then Raidah came, deliberately brought the subject up, and made the harshest judgment she could.
This was not the straw that broke the camel’s back. The camel was staggering, wavering, and its back was in the process of popping in horribly painful ways. And then Raidah dropped a wrecking ball on top.
I legitimately feel like there’s more to Raidah than we’re seeing; Freshman Raidah is visibly less self-assured, less calculating, and all around a bit friendlier (albeit misguided) than the young woman we’re seeing now, and I’m wondering just a little about what happened for her Freshman Year character arc, because I genuinely feel like “One of my new friends got sent home partway through our first semester after her roommate took issue with her mourning a little too hard”–a grievous oversimplification but that’s how she seems to see it–feels like it wasn’t necessarily enough there.
Or maybe this is just progress for her as she’s trying to shape herself into her ideal of a lawyer, who knows?
Ugh, no, she’s not. Let’s assume that she’s right, and that being POTUS means, perforce, you MUST commit at least some war crimes in the pursuit of your duties and because of the complications of global geopolitics.
We can draw three categories of people:
Those who are indifferent to the harm they cause;
Those who are seeking to cause harm;
Those who would avoid causing harm as much as possible.
Raidah’s “logic” would leave that third category ineligible for office by default, and thus only give the seat to people who either don’t care, or who are actively malicious.
Basically, Raidah is pimping for Trump ’24.
Now, she’s a sophomore in college, and thus prone to, well, sophomoric opinions about the world, wherein everything has a simple and pat answer, so I’d actually forgive her that.
But the fact that she quite clearly had stored that line up solely to hurt and confuse Dorothy (who never did anything to harm her) the first time they met, rather than to engage in any sort of discussion about Deep Topics, means that she’s not only demonstrably wrong, but she’s wrong for the wrong reasons.
I think we don’t need to take it “you must be a war criminal” to need to be literally true. However, as President you will be the head of the US military and have a bunch of obligations that will sort of, at bare minimum, make you responsible for either the loss of life or have the responsibility to take lives.
Someone assassinates some Americans, Dorothy is told she’s expected to authorize a retaliation for easy reference.
There’s nothing weird with saying, “I don’t want to do that.”
There’s virtue in saying, “no, we’re going to do something less satisfying but more effective, and more humane.”
People forget that the President is an executive. The Legislature holds the war power and is responsible for its use, no matter how much they delegate. They need to be precise in their direction of that power if they care about what is done with it. “When the sovereign has stated his requirements, the general is not answerable for how he fulfils them.”
There’s virtue in that, but it also implies there’s always a more humane and more effective option. Sometimes all the options are bad in one way or another. Even as President all you can do is determine who gets hurt and maybe how directly the US is responsible.
@C.T. Phipps: There’s value in an “I don’t really want to have to make those decisions” realization, but that’s not at all how Raidah phrased it. She was much more in a “You want to be a war criminal. That makes you a bad person” kind of direction.
It’s a cute sentiment, but you still need somebody to do the job, so now what?
Worse, it tends to encourage ignoring the differences between candidates in favor of putting them all in the “should by no means be permitted” category.
Disagree with you there about needing a President. Having a head of state is a convenience that makes many things easier or more doable. Many of those things do not need to be done, certainly not easily.
Can you cite some examples that worked out well for the countries involved?
Obviously, it doesn’t have to be called “President” or have exactly the same role, but it’s really hard to think of cases that didn’t have someone running the show.
“They’re-all-the-same-ism” is the bane of politics over here – it allows politicians to carry on in office for years after they should have been thrown out, because “ooh, it won’t make any difference” to replace them. It seems no crime or incompetance is enough to make some voters admit that they’re propping up a leader who really is worse than the competition.
I’ve got some sympathy for left-anarchism, but I don’t see how it can work unless somehow imposed worldwide all at the same time.
And imposing it seems fundamentally at odds with anarchism.
I’m hoping this isn’t wishful thinking on my part but I don’t see Mango Mussolini surviving to election day 2024. I don’t wish him too bad (much), I just don’t see him living that long, particularly if he gets the GQP nomination. Let’s just say if I were him I would avoid tall buildings with external windows, or just stay on the ground floors of all buildings. But he won’t.
Nothing wrong with ‘settling’ but i’m sure dorothy would still aim super high even if her next job ambition isn’t ‘future president’. Capitalistic dystopia aside, it’d be nice to have a fulfilling life even if your ‘career’ is meh , even if ppl wanna change the world/make a diff, most ppl aren’t gonna be on their death bed thinking ” i wish i had spent more time at teh office”
I’ll bet that plenty of people with unhappy home lives come to their ending thinking exactly that. Well, “spending time at the office” isn’t worth much, but doing or making something that improves peoples’ lives? there’s nothing like it!
Honestly while raidahs comment might have been the last nail in the coffin, i think Becky’s comment probably got to her worse. I mean, specifically highlighting that the thing she avoided because it felt slimy is exactly what a politician would have to do. If you can’t even springboard off your and your friends trauma into an ivy league school without feeling gross you don’t have what it takes to be a governor, let alone president
did she have a desire/ambition job wise though? wanting to be president/a career is diff than wanting a relationship to work out but hopefully ruth will be fine in the long run
Dorothy did you really not think about the war crimes thing??? Or was it just harder to BS “oh I wouldn’t do it” when looking another person in the eyes
I honestly don’t think Dorothy thought a tenth as much about the goal as how to get there. It was just a goalpost for her, a way to know she’d Made It.
Being president is one of those goals that’s considered hard to get but a noble/patriotic pursuit for young people to want. I could belive that growing up most of the push back from her dream would have been about wheather she was capable of obtaining it with nobody seriously asking her what morals she was willing to compromise in order to make it happen.
I bet she had an idealistic mental image of how she’d do the job. She’ll do everything you’re “supposed to” do (excel in school go to Yale), get elected because she’s the “best”, take all the “obviously correct” actions, not do the “obviously wrong” things, and all the world’s logical population will love her because she wasn’t evil.
Then many events chipped away at this mental image, until Raidah dealt the final blow.
Discovering how utterly BAD some people are in the world via her kidnapping I think is something that had the most effect. Also, the fact that Robyn is what REAL politicians were like.
The one two punch made Dorothy realize that she’d be dealing with people utterly unlike her.
That’s a cute sentiment. How?
The whole system is built to maintain itself. Even when by some miracle an actual decent human being who isn’t just a puppet for rich lobbyists makes it to the nominations like Bernie, the propaganda machine will do everything it can to slander their name, not just Fox news but the liberal media too because all that matters is corporate interest and any threats need to crushed into dust. Not being a lobbyist puppet means that unless you’re a billionaire (in which case, already interested in maintaining the current system) you’re fucked and your campaign is dead.
How do you propose that Dorothy “does something about it?” With a smile and a prayer? Even the goodest person in an evil system will not change the system. That’s like becoming a cop to try fix their issues from the inside
It depends on whether your intent by “do something about it” is overthrow the entire system, end capitalism, end imperialism, not only removing the US from its role as superpower, but ending the very idea of superpower altogether or possibly something a bit more realistic.
Not that Bernie could actually have done any of that even if he’d become President. Nor do I think he shares most of your views – he’s worked within the political system his whole life and continues working with those “puppets for rich lobbyists” to try to make things better in less dramatic ways.
Having Becky become a Campagne manager by mistake was probably also a huge wake up call that being studious( her strong point) isn’t what politics rewards as much as being a big personality.
Well, if she did meet some kinda ‘local leader/city politican’ in some school assembly/rally growing up as some inspirational speech/community outreach stuff and getting the desire/ambition for it, i don’t imagine they’d rly talk about those aspects of the jobs, as opposed to like, hiring some ex/recovering drug addict to do a public speaking role and being like “don’t end up like me” instead
Oh Dorothy, you can’t let what Raidah said stop you. If you truly want to be president, then go for it. You and those supporting you can make a difference, even if it seems small at first. Lawyers aren’t exactly squeaky clean either, but Raidah is ignoring that and going to be one anyway.
Never let anyone crush your dreams, no matter what they say. If you decide your dream has changed then make peace with yourself, then go for your new dream. Our dreams are like playdoh. They can be changed, stretched and made into something entirely different than what you had planned. The important part is to recognize that /you/ are in control, and no one else can take that from you unless you let them.
This isn’t just about Raidah, in my opinion. Dorothy already chose not to go to Harvard. She’s already been swelling with doubts. This has been building for a while; Raidah just popped the balloon.
I think Becky flat out telling Dorothy she is a terrible politician has had to biggest impact on her. Even before Radiah called being president akin to being a war criminal Dorothy saying there was nothing wrong with wanting goals already seemed like she was trying to convince herself more them talking to Radiah.
And I don’t think it’s a bad thing that Becky did that. It definitely hurt and it may or may not could have been done with more tact. But I don’t think dancing about it would have been a good move, either. At the end of the day, Becky’s a good friend and a good friend should let someone know if they’re going to hurt themselves by throwing them into something they’re really unsuited for.
I think the RA “election” between her and Roz was a good part of it, too. It showed Dorothy that being the best fit for the job on paper isn’t enough, and that she doesn’t have the soft skills to be competitive.
I think we can instead take Dorothy at her own words now (per the next-to-last panel). She’s no longer thinking in terms of “What more do I need to do?” She’s asking herself “Do I actually want this?” Which is an important question to answer first.
There’s probably a reason Dorothy didn’t really put up a fight about this. Regardless of her sincerity or personal hypocrisies, what Raidah said is true, and Dorothy knows it.
No, it isn’t. Or at least, even if true, it doesn’t mean what she thinks it does. Again, all Raidah’s suggested course of action (anyone who doesn’t want to commit war crimes shouldn’t become president) achieves is leaving the Oval Office in the hands of either corrupt narcissists who want nothing out of the office but their own aggrandizement and enrichment, or willfully malicious sociopaths whose agenda includes deliberately committing war crimes.
And people like that don’t have much intent of doing anything good with the office, either, so you can kiss off any actual positive social changes coming with that.
Raidah’s just wrong, all the way down. Even from her own petty, self-obsessed worldview, oddly enough, this was the worst thing she could have done. After all, if her goal is to isolate Joyce and Sarah, then either ‘stealing’ Dorothy (the way she’s trying to do with Walky and Billifer) or alternately encouraging Dorothy to pursue her goals (and thus, go off to Yale ASAP) would be a much stronger play than undermining the self-worth of someone who is at most tangential to her grand revenge scheme.
Raidah’s argument is being a bad person is what the job requires. War crimes are not a thing you do with the office, war crimes are a thing the office will make you do.
Rubbish. Crime is punishable because it’s optional. Choose a better way. If “they” demand war crimes, rat them out to the ICC; resign; do it your way regardless and let “them” do their worst afterward. Choosing to violate the law when one has a staff of lawyers to help one avoid it, is an unforced error.
War crimes as the US president aren’t punishable though.
Nobody demands you do war crimes, that’s a incredibly reductive look at the problem. Leaving aside those who for whom the war criming is a perk, the problem is that war crimes can often be a very effective tool, at least in the short term. They’re a tempting solution to intractable problems.
And also just an inevitable result of any broad military action. The US military is actually very well trained to avoid war crimes by historical standards, but they still happen.
Basically. Not a lot of easy decisions as a President. Some flunky makes the easy ones before they get to his desk.
Trolley problem is a good way to think about it. It highlights that not doing anything can be worse than acting – even if the act is a war crime, but not acting is. If I give the order that sends the trolley down the kill one civilian path, that’s a war crime. If I don’t interfere, I haven’t committed one, but more people die.
I think, in the most charitable reading of Raidah (who, let’s face it, was being mean and not making a cogent argument), being President means you are faced with situations where you have give an order that says “Here. We do this level of action. Anything MORE would be a War Crime.” Dorothy would be rather looking at the “How can I allocate these resources here and here to HELP these people?” questions and doesn’t want to think about choosing which action that is intended to do harm.
As you suggest, I’m not really inclined to be charitable to Raidah here.
But even so, a lot of US war crimes, at least at the high level, are calculated risks. Do we act without 100% certain intelligence, even if the consequences of not acting might be high?
The best way to avoid war crimes is to avoid war, but that’s not always possible and in the case of a President, you might well inherit one.
People and characters are using war crimes as a short hand here
.
Any position of high authority is a constant exercise in ethical calculus.
It also means constantly rubbing elbows with the scummiest people you’ll ever meet in order to reach a compromise that doesn’t feel great but might be better than the alternative of achieving none of your policy goals.
I don’t think it’s incorrect to say that Dorothy has an extremely idealized view of the presidency, so it’s better that this band-aid was ripped off now rather than later.
Crime is punishable because the people in power wrote a law and enforce it. The actual philosophy behind what laws are just or acceptable is a hell of a lot more complicated than that and also not particularly relevant to whether someone gets punished.
Yes! Thank you! What counts as a “crime” is defined by the people with the power to enforce them. Powerful people do not commit “crimes” because they have three power and they decided that it isn’t a crime when they do it.
I mean knowing america, even in a 20 year time skip in the doa universe, if there is a war going on during an election i don’t think dorothy would be elected as a white woman unless she was some decorated soldier
Depends on the war. A serious actual threat to the country war? Probably not.
But we’ve been involved in some kind of conflict for decades now, so there’s always opportunity for war crimes. Of course, knowing America, electing a woman at all seems a bit of a stretch. Otoh, so did electing a black man.
The, “if you don’t want to be a war criminal, don’t do the office just leaves the office in the hands of people who want to be war criminals” is an argument but Dorothy still doesn’t want to be a war criminal. This is an issue of personal ambition rather than idealism.
i mean, it feels ill-defined, and in fact no longer seems to work for Dorothy. maybe that’s also why i don’t feel like i could really judge it, it’s just sort of grandiose, even a bit unhinged honestly. but lots of people have whacky dreams for reasons beyond my comprehension and some even achieve them, so what do i know!
Actual advice: Try to figure out what about the dream initially appealed to you, since even if you find yourself losing interest in the original goal, maybe it’s just you realizing that it’s not what’s going to get you what you wanted.
For example, with her, she wants to make changes and improve lives. Maybe instead of becoming US president, she might instead might find advocate work appealing, or working for a charity organization. Maybe she’d make for a good social worker. Etc etc.
Also, when you’re studying that, don’t they like, give you lots of rules, guidelines, and methods for interacting with humans? Seems like Dorothy would find that useful (I relate)
Social worker would fit her interests but honestly, I think she needs a job that isn’t going to violently encourage her workaholic tendencies, where overworking isn’t the only means to save lives, and where real people won’t suffer when she inevitably burns herself to a cinder.
I’m thinking, like, middle manager at a company that makes something relatively value-neutral, and then she can go volunteer and donate and mutual aid and be an activist on the weekends.
You think that filling her free time with volunteering isn’t all of those things that you just said that she should avoid? At least if it’s your day-job you can practise compartmentalising it into a ‘I don’t have to care if I’m not on the clock’ box and try to stick to <50 hours a week; if it’s your hobby then you’re never going to get an actual break.
I think it would be way the fuck less stress than social work, way less responsibility, and if she’s volunteering, she’s way less likely to be the only thing standing between other human beings and horrors when she can’t do it anymore. Most jobs that genuinely help people require a lot of discipline to stop and be “off the clock” about, even if it’s the only way to stay baseline functional.
I neither think she could or will actually stop and I’m not going to assume she learns to avoid burnout before she’s like 30 at least. She doesn’t seem the type to learn her limits until her body makes her.
Personally I could see her in a more supportive or managerial role in a social work-related career. Like, say there’s an organization working to provide therapy to low income and otherwise marginalized people; they’re also going to need someone to manage their finances and funding, such as grants and donations. Someone(s) who can be in charge or recruitment and staff development and community outreach and maintaining connections. Someone overseeing the big picture of the operation.
😛 I went from wanting to animate on cartoons, to wanting to be a storyboard artist to saying “I just wanna do my own stuff online and maybe, just maybe if other people like it they’ll support me. I wanna make cartoons for the love of it, not to make money anymore. Otherwise I’ll never be happy.
Yeah, this seems like good advice. I wonder if Dorothy has bothered to really think about why she wanted to be president before now. And if it’s doing good and helping people, there are much better ways to do that than becoming president. Especially since the US political system seems to be designed to corrupt people.
I’d suggest that this is absolutely the wrong way to look at it. “Doing good” isn’t the only way to do good, ironically enough. Preventing evil has its own merits. And all the folks who are arguing that she should give up because all Presidents are evil are basically suggesting that we would be just as bad off under President DeSantis as we are under Biden (for whom I have no real fondness, frankly).
Dorothy may have needed a reality check on what being President (or really, any elected role) would mean, but that’s not what Raidah gave her. Instead, she spouted Chomsky for Dummies, with no intent other than to hurt Dorothy (whom, I remind folks, she’s never even met, before) as part of some Byzantine scheme to get back at Joyce & Sarah–and even within that context, this is a dumb approach, as encouraging Dotty to do everything she can to get into office would push her into going to Yale, and thus out of Joyce’s support-network.
Raidah simply cannot find a level to be right on–it’s wrong, all the way down.
Maybe. There’s a difference: making a few individuals’ lives better vs. making The System work better for everyone. These take different types. Dorothy might find helping individuals one at a time absorbing but ultimately unfulfilling. We really don’t know what she would be like if she had a position that would enable her to help others en masse.
I think she should look into how she can support unionizing efforts. Become a union lawyer maybe. It’s like one of the few ways to actually make a meaningful difference on a whole
As an animator who’s realized he’s bad at animating, too easily distracted, The industry is fucked, AI is slowly making him redundant, and is overall not equipped to pursue the job he’s spent his entire life from childhood wanting…
Very much the way I’m feeling about the academia (maybe minus the AI bit). Grad school made me fall from “I wanna be Smarter Than Everyone Else and do Great Things” down to “meh, I’m just fine working a corporate job and being a mum, probably”, which should be all right if I do both of these things well enough but somehow seems unambitious and hence against what used to be my defining characteristic for years.
I think being really into parenting is a legit ambition.
Plus, needing to be Smarter Than You means that everyone you meet needs to be dumber than you, or else you’re failing… you can do better than that ambition. How about an ambition more like, Gain Wisdom, instead? That’d set everyone up as guides and teachers and people on the same journey as you.
Before you beat yourself up too much, just remember that everybody is bad at what they do. I mean, look at the state of the world, does this look like the work of competent people?
Yes it does. There are plenty of well-built bridges; well-run farms; people who would have died but for good doctoring; on and on and on. Society would have collapsed and humans been obliterated long ago, were there not competent people enough to overcome the incompetents.
“I have dreams like you, no, really
Just much less touchy feely
They mainly happen somewhere warm and sunny
On an island that I own
Tanned and rested and alone
Surrounded by enormous piles of money”
– Ruth, possibly
I wonder how much this is going to come to a head over the Yale decision.
Dorothy still has the ambition to succeed and to do good, even if it’s not in an area of politics. The problem is that if she’s directionless, then she might not be sure what she’s going to Yale for.
To add to that, Sarah may have put the idea in her head that her spreadsheeting and hyperfocus on detail may just be a quirk of her brain, rather than a product of her actual drive.
I think I’m gonna take a break from commenting for a while – at least on this storyline. This storyline is making me feel really really bad for both personal and wider context reasons and I don’t want to bring anyone else down talking about it or bring myself down watching people enjoy it. It’s possible that’ll change but I really don’t like where this storyline seems to be going. I’m only posting this here so that people aren’t concerned if I stop commenting.
Sorry to hear that BBCC. I always enjoy your comments. Do you want to tell us about why this storyline is making you feel this way? I know i’m ok with hearing bummer stories, it won’t bring me down. I’m… used to it? Is that a weird thing to say. It’s true though. Anyway, your call. Be well <3
I’m tired of stories where ambitious women don’t get their ambition, for whatever reason. Enough. There’s plenty of them already. Them ‘~realizing they’re not suited for it~’ or ‘~most people change their minds on their dreams so it’s okay~’ or ‘~she realized the power would corrupt her~’ are all just variations on that. And I didn’t think this was going to be a problem with this story before because of how Dorothy had talked about that same issue, and hey, maybe I’m jumping the gun – this storyline isn’t over yet, but watching so much of the comment section cheer for that to happen has been really demoralizing for me. The fact I’ve been stuck job searching for two years and am starting to get the ‘maybe you should try another field’ advice hasn’t helped. Other people have the right to want it, but it’s bringing me down and I don’t really want to rain on anyone’s parade, so I think it’s best to keep commenting on this storyline to a minimum. I’ll still be around for other character’s storylines and everything else is going well for me so I’m okay, just really not enjoying Dorothy’s specific story right now.
yeah, i do suspect that having a central sympathetic character who was established as having presidential ambitions in the Obama era got uncomfortable over the years, and Willis felt he needed to do something about that. (What in specific is not yet clear.)
But regardless, it’s true Dorothy is(was?) the only female protag who was ambitious and driven, and also had an actual political consciousness. I find the ostentatious cynicism in the comments irritating and a bit troubling. although for my part, what with the strikes and riots going on in france these days, I’m not yet inclined to despondancy.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your career trouble BBCC. Fingers crossed that you will find something. Good on you for deciding to step back rather than get worked up. See you in a few strips then <3
Willis did say Dorothy was less idealistic and more cynical post Trump, so maybe this will be part of that before she comes out the other side. Who knows?
I hope that’s what’s going on, rather than her actually giving up on the idea because she doesn’t want to be evil or because it was always just a pipe dream she had no chance at anyway.
I’m not the biggest fans of the middle seasons of How I Met Your Mother, but there was one episode I really liked (“The Leap”). At that point, Ted has been worn down and burnt out from continually trying to be an architect and Lily asks him ‘okay, why do you HAVE to be an architect?”
“Because! I have to be an architect. That’s the dream.”
And then Lily basically just lays it out that they all had dreams at one point and a lot of them had modified or changed their dreams entirely at some point.
Dorothy doesn’t have to lose her passion for politics entirely. Maybe she might. Maybe she might not. But as Leslie said, you might always have had the idea of the finished sculpture in your mind. But each new experience and knowledge changes the shape of the sculpture. Maybe it’s subtle, maybe the details have changed, maybe it’s a completely new direction. But it doesn’t make the previous work into the sculpture wasted.
I mean, I’m rambling a bit here. It’s perfectly normal to feel like the goal you’ve been working on for a long time suddenly feels foreign or unwanted in your hands.
Right? I wenttouni resist wanting to get into computer science, then I switched to engineering, then I switched to pure math, and then I had a nervous breakdown, and then I spent 15 years in a tech support call center, and I landed in accounting and I love it and I’m gonna do it ‘til I die with my spreadsheets.
I tried electrical engineering, English, physics, then Japanese, before bouncing off university before doing culinary school after years working in a pizzeria. I can at least remembsr being very into food when I was young, but I don’t think I ever imagined working long-term in food.
Dorothy’s goal for presidency had always been ambition driven. But now she’s growing aware that the profession of politics has plenty of people who are in it for ambition only and a good number of them are scumbags making self beneficial choices that usually affects hundreds of thousands of people.
My girlfriend: That’s not true, Ruth! You’ve wanted things! They’re just things you’re stigmatized for wanting because you’re a woman. Me: Like death? And alcohol? My girlfriend: Actually, yeah!
(She then went on to make some really rad points about how mental health problems and vice are more stigmatized for women, I just thought this exchange was really funny)
Dorothy’s at a stage in her life where she’s still got a choice of several life paths ahead of her, and when she’s still making discoveries about what those paths look like and entail and whether or not she’ll find them rich, fulfilling, enjoyable, and secure.
This means that she’s free to and likely to change her choice of path several times in the coming years, and her strategy going forward should reflect that. For now, she should make education choices that give her a solid knowledge base and broadly-applicable skills, but also things like consulting with career counselors, doing informational interviewing, job shadowing, and so on. These things can be both for exploring new potential careers, and also for the potential career she’d previously planned on. (And maybe related careers, like lobbying, political organizing, etc.)
Ruth, the right answer for you is to refer Dorothy to the university’s career development center. … and maybe do the whole human connection thing if your antidepressants gifted you with enough spoons for that today, but be sure she gets referred to people with the right specialization.
And of course, the objectively right response for ME is to shout advice at characters who can’t see me, whose actions have been laid out and set in e-stone months ago, and who are going to do something dumb and screw up because this is DUMBING OF AGE. …. YES THIS IS TOO A RATIONAL THING FOR ME TO BE DOING SHUT UP!
Changing one’s mind is totally normal… so ride the existential crisis for all it’s worth. Then, once you’ve calmed down a bit from that… get to know yourself more. You no longer have to define yourself from that previous goal… you can figure out who you really want to be, and find a new goal from that.
Ah, ok thanks. Yeah, I guess I’ve met English majors who aren’t specifically lit up over the subject.
Pretty hard to imagine what it’s like to have never wanted anything. That sounds like a state of mind that spiritual acolytes spend a lifetime pursuing.
She mentioned it to Billie, once. Also, she sat in an English class mulling her relationship with Billie and thinking of her major, and whether her degree, if she got it, would mean anything.
A lot more people like pepsi than they know! A peer reviewed study handed out different types of coke to test subjects without telling them what kind it was, and asked which one they liked more. The control group got their drinks labeled.
A lot more people liked pepsi when they weren’t Told it was pepsi. In fact, if asked to tell the difference between coca cola and pepsi by taste, people often insisted the pepsi they drank must have been coca cola, because it tasted better for them. This is likely because coca cola’s aggressive marketing and brand recognition influenced their preferences, while disliking pepsi is something of a meme.
Does this have to do Anything with your metaphor? no, not at all
Carry on
Now, granted, I do think Pepsi is alright in small amounts, but it’s too sweet for me a lot of the time. Other colas, like Coke or RC, don’t usually feel so… is “sticky” the right word? Like, when I drink it, my throat feels exactly the same as my fingers feel if I spill some on my hand, if that makes sense. There’s a unique quality to it that’s hard to pinpoint, but that’s not because I’ve been Cokepilled, I’m just bad at articulating sensations.
Pepsi when you want something that tastes like cola. Dr Pepper when you want something that tastes better, but also a little like medicine. Coke when you want something that tastes terrible and also a lot like medicine.
Root Beer when you’re grown up enough not to be insecure about drinking the best soft drink.
I think her brain is pretty short circuited over this, and it is part of Ruth’s job to advise in some way…
She probably feels resistant to being this vulnerable to people she feels rely on her, and she’s spent a decent amount of effort toward being the person people rely on. And maybe the idea of others changing how they think about her (or how she thinks they think about her) would be scary, especially with those she’s closer to.
On a more unconscious level, it’s possible she’s looking for someone to tell her she can just crash and break down and give up, and maybe that would be something she could get from Ruth.
Didn’t Dorothy mention that she regularly sees a councillor, I mean what you say is true but surely Dorothy isn’t the most stable of individuals to put it mildly
Sarah at least would have likely sent Dorothy off to health services or whatever is the equivalent
Sure, she sees a councillor, but those are by appointment is my understanding. If she wants advice now, talking to her RA can’t hurt. Ruth knows all the services the school has to help career planning issues too, so she can point Dorothy there if nothing else.
I’m not saying that Dorothy has been through exactly what Ruth has gone through, no. Obviously not.
But they are both very clearly traumatized individuals. Ruth’s depression and lack of self-worth is deeply commingled with her trauma (loss of her parents, constant abuse from her grandfather.) Dorothy is, like, a textbook case of post-traumatic stress (dissociation due to triggering remarks, emotions she doesn’t know how to handle, etc.).
They’re both going through similar ordeals. They understand each other.
I think at this point Dorothy is looking for a friend’s support but doesn’t want to confind in her close friends yet or see a career counselor because that feels too much like officially throwing in the towel.
I used to have a lot of dreams for my future that I’ve mostly given up on by now. It’s okay to realize that a dream you had for what you wanted to do as a job or become as an adult was unrealistic or not as good as you thought. Then you’re free to figure out a new dream to strive for, hopefully one that’s much better than the previous ones.
Classic disillusioned college kid. The answer to her question is “You get depressed, develop an addiction, and shut yourself off from anyone who might be able to help you in any way with even a slight problem. If you interact with anyone, you’ll do it by dropping a meme in a group chat once or twice a week so they don’t think you died. That or they’ll come by of their own volition to drag out on an outing because you haven’t seen sunlight in two months, you’ll go along, maybe you’ll pick up a trinket at a store, and then the moment you get home you’ll go right back to your spiral. This will continue until a magic pill is created that cures your depression, except it won’t because years of circling the drain have left you in a financial hole you’re never gonna climb out of and you can’t afford basic aspirin, let alone expensive brain pills. Oh, and while your body deteriorates from neglect, you’ll develop crippling insecurities about your self-image and wind up avoiding people even harder so they don’t see you like this.”
Okay, maybe it’s not the answer, but it’s a possible one.
I think you may have just described much of my life in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Fortunately, I finally found some actual help (maybe not enough, but some, anyway.)
The good news is that if you dumped someone so you had time to pad your CV, you can get back together with them.
At one point, Jennifer said Dorothy would at most end up a mid-level federal judge. And when Dorothy shaves off the childish parts of her dream to be president, being a judge or having a job in policy could be up her alley.
Come on Dorothy, think it through. Have you ever wanted to become president, or did you just want to be the best in class and get pets on the head from the teacher? And when you were like, four, you imagined the highest public office as an adult’s version of that, and never looked back, trusting in the validation of the adults who were impressed with you having any sort of clear ambition, building up your expectation that you should get the job, building a bias about what the job entails based on what you’d like it to be and what makes a person good at it based on what you’re good at, and then having this fantasy tested every day of college in the contact with a reality where you’re neither likeable enough to win a corridor popularity contest against Roz nor actually hungry for power, or anything else a person would have to be to be president. . .
So, okay, it is time to reexamine your entire life. Just don’t go thinking Raidah had anything to do with it.
I think what she wanted was to be Mom Friend Who Solves Everyone’s Problems (because she’s smart and organized and knows best) for, like, the entire country.
or, to put it yet another way, she wanted to be the kind of President one sees in movies and on TV – the kind that’s at least 80% fiction and/or propaganda.
Update your resume and get a new job as a supporting character in Questionable Content.
You can go to any one of the five colleges in that region (Smif being the default school) and work at the coffee shop. They’re about to lose Claire so there’s going to be an opening shortly.
You know, I thing bouncing new ambitions off Tannelore would do her good. Given her connections with mum, dad, and Station, Hannelore might have the perspective to genuinely relate.
At least until she disappears like Raven, Penelope, Wil, Momo, Brun, Emily, Sven, the Secret Bakery crew…
And it sounds like we’re going to get both Cubetown and Northampton stories for a while. I have a feeling one setting will take most of the spotlight for a while, or they won’t get concurrent stories.
QC is the second comic product I know of with characters based in Northampton Mass.
The first was in the ’80s and went on to grander fame – the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. When they were published by Mirage Studios as a B&W comic book, much of their early exploits took place at a farmhouse near NoHamp.
I had a radio show in that town from 1983-1987 and got to know their office manager Cheryl quite well.
Meanwhile what troubles me most about this strip is Dorothy having an existential-crisis-level conversation standing in a doorway, in public, in a probably echo-ey and neon-lit corridor, and all within seconds of knocking on Ruth’s door. Wild.
well, in the lobby Dotty was just kind of standing there, now she’s saying this stuff out loud to another person. feels worse to me?
i’m not taking it that seriously within the story, i’m just noting what my spur gut reaction was to the strip. like whoah, this seems so… vulnerable?
myself i would want to sit down someplace quiet and private, have a cup of tea (or a few shots of rum if i’m being honest), take a deep breath… if i’m having an existential crisis, i’d rather be comfortable tyvm
It’s fine, it was a long time ago. The ministry is a profession that produces a lot of young car salesmen and insurance agents; it has a high attrition rate and training for it is poorly transferrable to other professions. Luckily I was and am handy with technology so I could make a living.
My pastoral internship crashed when I couldn’t hew a tight enough doctrinal line, arranged shelter and food for transients, and tried to organize the youth group to pick up litter. Not enough bible thumping and baptizing. The final straw was when I married a woman who had a child out of wedlock, turbocharging the rumor mill.
I really kind of hate this storyline. Or at least the reactions to it. Whether I wind up hating it or not depends on where it goes in the end.
I don’t like seeing Dorothy’s dream shot down – whether it’s because it’s an evil dream and no one good should every want to be president or just because Dorothy isn’t a perfect effortless politician.
Sure, people often decide or learn in college that what they thought they wanted to be wasn’t really for them. It happens. But Dorothy was our only main character with any real stated ambition, so having that die seems like a much broader statement than if there were others still passionate about their dreams.
There’s been a lot of negativity towards Dorothy’s goals all along and I hate to see her beaten down by it.
Yeah…
i am genuinely interested in where this is taking Dorothy, like, i really want her to have An Arc, so that’s keeping me engaged.
but you know, looking back, i am fairly annoyed at the fact that Dorothy’s confidence in her dream turns out to be shattered, of all things, by this uninspired cliche from a total stranger. like… wait what?
i just don’t buy that Dorothy wasn’t conscious that being prez meant to get her hands dirty. like. come on. she’s a polisci major, she’s had this dream for ever, she’s an over achiever and she reads all the books. how.
anyway, yeah. not totally vibing with this story myself so far
The problem, IMO, is that it was never a realistic goal for someone of her talents or character/nature. It was a child’s goal, a simplistic ideal of what politics and specifically the office of POTUS entails.
“I want people to see that I’m the good, smart, organized person who should solve everyone’s problems, and elect me to an office that has the power and responsibility to do exactly that, without ever having to do anything bad.”
Until the time skip, Dorothy was in many ways one of the most boring characters. She was incredibly pleasant and all of her “flaws” were nothings like “keeps to a schedule too well.”
The trauma of the kidnapping on top of the realization that her method of becoming president likely wouldn’t work and that she personally just isn’t much cut out for the job are shattering her in a way for which she is absolutely not prepared. We’re already seeing her develop more actual flaws, and they’ve fairly naturally grown from qualities that were originally positives.
She’s every group’s go-to mediator, but when Joyce came out as an atheist in the worst way possible, she demanded Joyce apologize to Becky. No searching for where “All Christians are stupid idots” came from like she probably would have in the fall.
She’s the mom friend who knows how to be an adult, but she’s not thinking straight, so when people come to her for advice (or when she just forces it on them) and her advice is really really bad, they blindly believe her anyway.
I largely like Dorothy because I’m an immense softie and don’t like mean characters, but her finally having flaws has made her a much more dynamic character and I’m looking forward to seeing her grow.
I knew a retired teacher who made a point that adult-seeming kids and teenagers were not mature, they were sophisticated. I see her Dorothy’s sophistication unraveling, especially since the timeskip/abduction. In retrospect, bits of her immaturity peeked through that I’d skimmed passed before. I think it’s going to be tough for her, but she can finally grow.
For me, the first steps are to re-examine why you wanted that dream to begin with. And then using the experience and understanding of the world as you have it, find if you still believe pursuing that dream woll fulfill those reasons. If yes, congratulations! You have just hit a roadblock that may rattle you but you can accommodate it as you continue.
If not, Congratulations! You’ve spent enough time and learned a lot by just acknowledging your old dream has issues that you hadn’t considered. In this state, you may feel a little more fragile and I recommend taking a week to just enjoy the small things with friends or on your own. So long as it’s genuine. From there, re-examine what might best achieve your dream. Remember to start with small achieveable goals, and consistently work towards them as you aim a little higher.
I can relate to dorothy. for most of my highschool career and a few years into college i wanted to be an animator for disney. but the more i learned about the industry overall the less i wanted to even be an animator. it was awkward giving up on that dream not because of how dear it was to me, but because that was literally what everyone knew me for. 7 years later and im happy to say no one thinks of me like that anymore, but it was definitely a grueling process. hang in there dorothy !!
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Ruth is a mood.
I really wish she wasn’t, but yeah, mood.
Help me out, here. How can a person be a mood?
in this context ‘mood’ basically means ‘relatable’
OK, yeah. Urban Dictionary says the same. I’d be curious how that usage makes sense.
“The situation this person is in / attitudes they are expressing are an iconic epitome of this mood I am presently feeling / often feel.”
OK. That makes sense. Kinda. Thanks.
I’m glad the others could help! … m00d …
Not making sense is the point. Replacing a word with another unrelated word and declaring it to mean the same thing is confusing, so it forms an in-group of those who have been informed, who can then look down on the out-group.
I was honestly just using the word because I legitimately feel like Ruth’s lines in panel 4 was… a mood. Not to create an in-group and certainly not to look down on people that didn’t understand.
That’s a very weird way of describing slang as a phenomenon
*plays “Phenomenon” from the Muppets*
“Mood” does not exist to make people feel superior. It’s a short, casual way to express “wow, I feel this situation/experience/expression”, like how a lot of slang is a short, casual way to express something.
Are we gonna say “yeet” is meant to make people feel superior next? Because that’s really not how memes and/or slang work, unless your social circle is entirely made of assholes.
The most interesting varieties of slang actually create an in-group of those who have been informed, who can then avoid being reported to the police by the out-group.
That’s closer to shibboleth. Knowing how a word is pronounced (for instance Cairo, Egypt vs Cairo, IL) or a regional custom (secret handshake!) does create an in-group. Shibboleth is named for this biblical account, where they determined enemies by showing the written word and listening to see if they pronounced it SH or S:
5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?”
If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’”
If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.
“Mood” “yeet” “yoink” etc are just memed words. No one is looking down on people that don’t know or use them (usually it’s the opposite). There’s too much to keep up with, even if a person tried.
Specifically penal 4 Ruth is a mood but yeah, I’m saying what she said there is pretty relatable.
Penal 4 Ruth is the Ruth that Julia Gray personally incarcerated in the galaxy’s fourth penal colony.
I am happy to know that I am not the one puzzled by this use of the word “mood”. Not understanding slang is one of those alarming signals that you are not that young anymore.
I’m old but mood is used a lot on tumblr, so it’s probably more of a matter of whether you use tumblr haha
Oh have kids that do/did!
I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
I’ve been around since “groovy” was cool and “funky” was a complement. Now where did I put my Geritol?
Beside the Brylcreem?
tbf, she is giving full disclosure that she has no basis upon which to give good advice regarding this question.
Which, in itself, is something useful for Dorothy to observe n
… Not that that’s the most important thing to be in her mind right now.
Same, Ruth. Same.
Not me I have tons of dreams … and I’m not doing well to reach any of them. Its scary, like I have all these ideas in my head so much of what I think and believe and love and nobody sees it and when I die it all just be gone and none of it will have helped anybody. Its scary and paralyzing and thus a positive feedback loop … and this was probably too much. Sorry. I hope you find what you want.
I love your Perry the platypus avatar.
I need to go lay down after reading this.
Hey, I feel ya on pretty much all of this. always had so many dreams & never figured out how to execute. And now realizing that there’s so many of those that won’t make it out of my brain into the real world… After all this time the only thing I’ve figured out of this mess is a. choose something rather than trying to do ALL THE THINGS at once and b. put it in your schedule.
*I write, whilst procrastinating on writing
Yeah, this. It’s normal to have more ideas and plans than you’re able to execute. In no way a personal failure, just a brain having lots of ideas.
The important thing is to occasionally pick an idea that looks fun and go all in on it. Which is something I need to get better at, myself. I think I didn’t a bunch of my twenties beating myself up about all the things I ended up not doing, and only now I’m slowly realising I don’t need to, it’s not physically possible, and not all plans are good enough to be worth my energy. And that’s kinda liberating.
What do you mean? It’s just an ordinary platypus. You can tell because there’s no hat.
As a person with ADHD this is very relatable. As a person with depression I forgot I used to care about that. It’s nice to be reminded that I’m capable of that kind of passion (even if rarely the execution). Mental health recovery has forced me to pick one plan at a time and while that’s excruciatingly slow going (especially since I will switch plans every 5% of progress) it’s at least less overwhelming…
I hope you find some peace, True Survivor. Hey, wanna tell us some of your dreams? I’m interested!
There is Warren Buffet’s advice. Write down your top 25 career/life goals, then circle your top five. The top five becomes what you focus on and the other 20 are your “avoid at all cost” list. Pay them no heed until you start completing the top 5.
It sounds good, until you realize “how do I choose the top five?”
I recommend the Magic Lessons with Elizabeth Gilbert podcast. It didn’t get me started on any projects, but it felt like it could have for an alternate version of me that was the kind of person who would start a project.
I have tons of dreams. They mostly involve me either getting trapped in a house with my abuser or flying really awkwardly through a forest.
For real though the idea of having dreams is scary. I’ve very recently worked up to the terrifying and liberating point of “considering having a career plan” and I’m nearing 40.
We do ourselves harm by using the same word for fantasies that happen to us while asleep, and directed visions of our future.
“Aspirations of unusual size? I don’t think they really exist”
hehe, which begs the question, which aspirations are going to aggressively and unexpectedly throw themselves at Ruth from off-panel
Jennifer accidentally stepped on a spare skate of Carla’s and comes screaming down the hall at top speed…
Ruth should clothesline her.
Dorothy: “Don’t you have ANY dreams?”
Ruth: “Well, I’d like to see the Leafs win the cup.”
Dorothy: “I said dreams, not fantasies.”
This made me smile. Thank you.
I’m probably one of the few old enough to remember seeing the Leafs win the Cup, and Canadian-adjacent enough to care about it.
dingdingdingdingWINNAH
unlike, obviously
the Leafs
xD
Basically replaces Leafs with Sabers except it’s even worse beacuse at least the leafs won many Stanley cups. Hopefully they never win again beacuse the Leafs are evil and so are the Habs and Lightning as well.
Came here for the Leafs joke, well done.
A n e x c e p t i o n h a s o c c u r r e d .
Well have you lost that much, Dorothy? You’d be getting good grades and going to college anyway.
But yes, I’m glad Raidah saved you from this.
Raidah sucks, but it’d be nice if her attempt at being mean inadvertently had a positive long term result.
I suspect this has been at the back of Dorothy’s mind for a while now and Raidah’s comment was just the straw that broke the camels back
This was always coming.
It’s pretty clear from her conversation with Becky about Yale that she was already wavering hard. Becky even pointed out a point adjacent to the one Raidah made.
And then Raidah came, deliberately brought the subject up, and made the harshest judgment she could.
This was not the straw that broke the camel’s back. The camel was staggering, wavering, and its back was in the process of popping in horribly painful ways. And then Raidah dropped a wrecking ball on top.
I legitimately feel like there’s more to Raidah than we’re seeing; Freshman Raidah is visibly less self-assured, less calculating, and all around a bit friendlier (albeit misguided) than the young woman we’re seeing now, and I’m wondering just a little about what happened for her Freshman Year character arc, because I genuinely feel like “One of my new friends got sent home partway through our first semester after her roommate took issue with her mourning a little too hard”–a grievous oversimplification but that’s how she seems to see it–feels like it wasn’t necessarily enough there.
Or maybe this is just progress for her as she’s trying to shape herself into her ideal of a lawyer, who knows?
Raidah may have said it to Dorothy mainly to be mean, but she wasn’t actually wrong this time.
Ugh, no, she’s not. Let’s assume that she’s right, and that being POTUS means, perforce, you MUST commit at least some war crimes in the pursuit of your duties and because of the complications of global geopolitics.
We can draw three categories of people:
Those who are indifferent to the harm they cause;
Those who are seeking to cause harm;
Those who would avoid causing harm as much as possible.
Raidah’s “logic” would leave that third category ineligible for office by default, and thus only give the seat to people who either don’t care, or who are actively malicious.
Basically, Raidah is pimping for Trump ’24.
Now, she’s a sophomore in college, and thus prone to, well, sophomoric opinions about the world, wherein everything has a simple and pat answer, so I’d actually forgive her that.
But the fact that she quite clearly had stored that line up solely to hurt and confuse Dorothy (who never did anything to harm her) the first time they met, rather than to engage in any sort of discussion about Deep Topics, means that she’s not only demonstrably wrong, but she’s wrong for the wrong reasons.
I think we don’t need to take it “you must be a war criminal” to need to be literally true. However, as President you will be the head of the US military and have a bunch of obligations that will sort of, at bare minimum, make you responsible for either the loss of life or have the responsibility to take lives.
Someone assassinates some Americans, Dorothy is told she’s expected to authorize a retaliation for easy reference.
There’s nothing weird with saying, “I don’t want to do that.”
There’s virtue in saying, “no, we’re going to do something less satisfying but more effective, and more humane.”
People forget that the President is an executive. The Legislature holds the war power and is responsible for its use, no matter how much they delegate. They need to be precise in their direction of that power if they care about what is done with it. “When the sovereign has stated his requirements, the general is not answerable for how he fulfils them.”
There’s virtue in that, but it also implies there’s always a more humane and more effective option. Sometimes all the options are bad in one way or another. Even as President all you can do is determine who gets hurt and maybe how directly the US is responsible.
@C.T. Phipps: There’s value in an “I don’t really want to have to make those decisions” realization, but that’s not at all how Raidah phrased it. She was much more in a “You want to be a war criminal. That makes you a bad person” kind of direction.
Anyone who has the capability of getting themselves elected president should by no means be permitted to do the job.
It’s a cute sentiment, but you still need somebody to do the job, so now what?
Worse, it tends to encourage ignoring the differences between candidates in favor of putting them all in the “should by no means be permitted” category.
Disagree with you there about needing a President. Having a head of state is a convenience that makes many things easier or more doable. Many of those things do not need to be done, certainly not easily.
Can you cite some examples that worked out well for the countries involved?
Obviously, it doesn’t have to be called “President” or have exactly the same role, but it’s really hard to think of cases that didn’t have someone running the show.
“They’re-all-the-same-ism” is the bane of politics over here – it allows politicians to carry on in office for years after they should have been thrown out, because “ooh, it won’t make any difference” to replace them. It seems no crime or incompetance is enough to make some voters admit that they’re propping up a leader who really is worse than the competition.
I’m an anarchist. You don’t wanna know what I think of the idea of a presidency or equivalent position.
I’ve got some sympathy for left-anarchism, but I don’t see how it can work unless somehow imposed worldwide all at the same time.
And imposing it seems fundamentally at odds with anarchism.
Hmm. So the only way you can get a decent president is if the VP takes over after the elected President dies or is forced out of office?
I’m hoping this isn’t wishful thinking on my part but I don’t see Mango Mussolini surviving to election day 2024. I don’t wish him too bad (much), I just don’t see him living that long, particularly if he gets the GQP nomination. Let’s just say if I were him I would avoid tall buildings with external windows, or just stay on the ground floors of all buildings. But he won’t.
Nothing wrong with ‘settling’ but i’m sure dorothy would still aim super high even if her next job ambition isn’t ‘future president’. Capitalistic dystopia aside, it’d be nice to have a fulfilling life even if your ‘career’ is meh , even if ppl wanna change the world/make a diff, most ppl aren’t gonna be on their death bed thinking ” i wish i had spent more time at teh office”
I’ll bet that plenty of people with unhappy home lives come to their ending thinking exactly that. Well, “spending time at the office” isn’t worth much, but doing or making something that improves peoples’ lives? there’s nothing like it!
A common experience for freshmen college students is discovering that the major they chose is not really the major they want.
Agreed. The old head of Advising used to tell incoming students that they were dating their majors, not married to them.
Honestly while raidahs comment might have been the last nail in the coffin, i think Becky’s comment probably got to her worse. I mean, specifically highlighting that the thing she avoided because it felt slimy is exactly what a politician would have to do. If you can’t even springboard off your and your friends trauma into an ivy league school without feeling gross you don’t have what it takes to be a governor, let alone president
That seems reasonable, but we did see a much stronger reaction to Raidah’s comments.
*looks in the record collection for some Bob Dylan*
Ouch. Ruth, you have wanted things, you know . . .
did she have a desire/ambition job wise though? wanting to be president/a career is diff than wanting a relationship to work out but hopefully ruth will be fine in the long run
I feel that last line so hard.
Dorothy did you really not think about the war crimes thing??? Or was it just harder to BS “oh I wouldn’t do it” when looking another person in the eyes
I honestly don’t think Dorothy thought a tenth as much about the goal as how to get there. It was just a goalpost for her, a way to know she’d Made It.
Being president is one of those goals that’s considered hard to get but a noble/patriotic pursuit for young people to want. I could belive that growing up most of the push back from her dream would have been about wheather she was capable of obtaining it with nobody seriously asking her what morals she was willing to compromise in order to make it happen.
I bet she had an idealistic mental image of how she’d do the job. She’ll do everything you’re “supposed to” do (excel in school go to Yale), get elected because she’s the “best”, take all the “obviously correct” actions, not do the “obviously wrong” things, and all the world’s logical population will love her because she wasn’t evil.
Then many events chipped away at this mental image, until Raidah dealt the final blow.
Discovering how utterly BAD some people are in the world via her kidnapping I think is something that had the most effect. Also, the fact that Robyn is what REAL politicians were like.
The one two punch made Dorothy realize that she’d be dealing with people utterly unlike her.
That would make me more determined than ever to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
That’s a cute sentiment. How?
The whole system is built to maintain itself. Even when by some miracle an actual decent human being who isn’t just a puppet for rich lobbyists makes it to the nominations like Bernie, the propaganda machine will do everything it can to slander their name, not just Fox news but the liberal media too because all that matters is corporate interest and any threats need to crushed into dust. Not being a lobbyist puppet means that unless you’re a billionaire (in which case, already interested in maintaining the current system) you’re fucked and your campaign is dead.
How do you propose that Dorothy “does something about it?” With a smile and a prayer? Even the goodest person in an evil system will not change the system. That’s like becoming a cop to try fix their issues from the inside
It depends on whether your intent by “do something about it” is overthrow the entire system, end capitalism, end imperialism, not only removing the US from its role as superpower, but ending the very idea of superpower altogether or possibly something a bit more realistic.
Not that Bernie could actually have done any of that even if he’d become President. Nor do I think he shares most of your views – he’s worked within the political system his whole life and continues working with those “puppets for rich lobbyists” to try to make things better in less dramatic ways.
Robin is not “what REAL politicians were like”. She’s a parody, not a life drawing.
Having Becky become a Campagne manager by mistake was probably also a huge wake up call that being studious( her strong point) isn’t what politics rewards as much as being a big personality.
Does the Prime Minister of Canada need to be a war criminal? Asking for a friend.
Yes
Well, if she did meet some kinda ‘local leader/city politican’ in some school assembly/rally growing up as some inspirational speech/community outreach stuff and getting the desire/ambition for it, i don’t imagine they’d rly talk about those aspects of the jobs, as opposed to like, hiring some ex/recovering drug addict to do a public speaking role and being like “don’t end up like me” instead
Oh Dorothy, you can’t let what Raidah said stop you. If you truly want to be president, then go for it. You and those supporting you can make a difference, even if it seems small at first. Lawyers aren’t exactly squeaky clean either, but Raidah is ignoring that and going to be one anyway.
Never let anyone crush your dreams, no matter what they say. If you decide your dream has changed then make peace with yourself, then go for your new dream. Our dreams are like playdoh. They can be changed, stretched and made into something entirely different than what you had planned. The important part is to recognize that /you/ are in control, and no one else can take that from you unless you let them.
This isn’t just about Raidah, in my opinion. Dorothy already chose not to go to Harvard. She’s already been swelling with doubts. This has been building for a while; Raidah just popped the balloon.
I think Becky flat out telling Dorothy she is a terrible politician has had to biggest impact on her. Even before Radiah called being president akin to being a war criminal Dorothy saying there was nothing wrong with wanting goals already seemed like she was trying to convince herself more them talking to Radiah.
And I don’t think it’s a bad thing that Becky did that. It definitely hurt and it may or may not could have been done with more tact. But I don’t think dancing about it would have been a good move, either. At the end of the day, Becky’s a good friend and a good friend should let someone know if they’re going to hurt themselves by throwing them into something they’re really unsuited for.
I agree that it was a good thing and something Dorothyneeded to hear. Was just commenting that Becky had more of an effect then Radiah.
I think Becky gave her a painful but necessary bit of advice to chew on, whereas Raidah just poked her right in the trauma with a big stick for clout.
I think the RA “election” between her and Roz was a good part of it, too. It showed Dorothy that being the best fit for the job on paper isn’t enough, and that she doesn’t have the soft skills to be competitive.
OTOH nobody is born with skills. The question she needs to consider is a much harder one: does she have the talent needed to develop those skills?
I don’t think Dorothy has given up. I think she is beginning to ask herself, “what more do I need to do?”
I think we can instead take Dorothy at her own words now (per the next-to-last panel). She’s no longer thinking in terms of “What more do I need to do?” She’s asking herself “Do I actually want this?” Which is an important question to answer first.
Is this a coup joke?
There’s probably a reason Dorothy didn’t really put up a fight about this. Regardless of her sincerity or personal hypocrisies, what Raidah said is true, and Dorothy knows it.
No, it isn’t. Or at least, even if true, it doesn’t mean what she thinks it does. Again, all Raidah’s suggested course of action (anyone who doesn’t want to commit war crimes shouldn’t become president) achieves is leaving the Oval Office in the hands of either corrupt narcissists who want nothing out of the office but their own aggrandizement and enrichment, or willfully malicious sociopaths whose agenda includes deliberately committing war crimes.
And people like that don’t have much intent of doing anything good with the office, either, so you can kiss off any actual positive social changes coming with that.
Raidah’s just wrong, all the way down. Even from her own petty, self-obsessed worldview, oddly enough, this was the worst thing she could have done. After all, if her goal is to isolate Joyce and Sarah, then either ‘stealing’ Dorothy (the way she’s trying to do with Walky and Billifer) or alternately encouraging Dorothy to pursue her goals (and thus, go off to Yale ASAP) would be a much stronger play than undermining the self-worth of someone who is at most tangential to her grand revenge scheme.
Agreed. Raidah seems to have sacrificed a good play to her longterm goals in favor of a purely transitory hit of snotty superiority.
Raidah’s argument is being a bad person is what the job requires. War crimes are not a thing you do with the office, war crimes are a thing the office will make you do.
Rubbish. Crime is punishable because it’s optional. Choose a better way. If “they” demand war crimes, rat them out to the ICC; resign; do it your way regardless and let “them” do their worst afterward. Choosing to violate the law when one has a staff of lawyers to help one avoid it, is an unforced error.
War crimes as the US president aren’t punishable though.
Nobody demands you do war crimes, that’s a incredibly reductive look at the problem. Leaving aside those who for whom the war criming is a perk, the problem is that war crimes can often be a very effective tool, at least in the short term. They’re a tempting solution to intractable problems.
And also just an inevitable result of any broad military action. The US military is actually very well trained to avoid war crimes by historical standards, but they still happen.
Too many trolly problems as president.
Basically. Not a lot of easy decisions as a President. Some flunky makes the easy ones before they get to his desk.
Trolley problem is a good way to think about it. It highlights that not doing anything can be worse than acting – even if the act is a war crime, but not acting is. If I give the order that sends the trolley down the kill one civilian path, that’s a war crime. If I don’t interfere, I haven’t committed one, but more people die.
I think, in the most charitable reading of Raidah (who, let’s face it, was being mean and not making a cogent argument), being President means you are faced with situations where you have give an order that says “Here. We do this level of action. Anything MORE would be a War Crime.” Dorothy would be rather looking at the “How can I allocate these resources here and here to HELP these people?” questions and doesn’t want to think about choosing which action that is intended to do harm.
As you suggest, I’m not really inclined to be charitable to Raidah here.
But even so, a lot of US war crimes, at least at the high level, are calculated risks. Do we act without 100% certain intelligence, even if the consequences of not acting might be high?
The best way to avoid war crimes is to avoid war, but that’s not always possible and in the case of a President, you might well inherit one.
People and characters are using war crimes as a short hand here
.
Any position of high authority is a constant exercise in ethical calculus.
It also means constantly rubbing elbows with the scummiest people you’ll ever meet in order to reach a compromise that doesn’t feel great but might be better than the alternative of achieving none of your policy goals.
I don’t think it’s incorrect to say that Dorothy has an extremely idealized view of the presidency, so it’s better that this band-aid was ripped off now rather than later.
“Crime is punishable because it’s optional.”
Crime is punishable because the people in power wrote a law and enforce it. The actual philosophy behind what laws are just or acceptable is a hell of a lot more complicated than that and also not particularly relevant to whether someone gets punished.
Yes! Thank you! What counts as a “crime” is defined by the people with the power to enforce them. Powerful people do not commit “crimes” because they have three power and they decided that it isn’t a crime when they do it.
I mean knowing america, even in a 20 year time skip in the doa universe, if there is a war going on during an election i don’t think dorothy would be elected as a white woman unless she was some decorated soldier
Depends on the war. A serious actual threat to the country war? Probably not.
But we’ve been involved in some kind of conflict for decades now, so there’s always opportunity for war crimes. Of course, knowing America, electing a woman at all seems a bit of a stretch. Otoh, so did electing a black man.
America literally does not allow it’s citizens to be prosecuted for war crimes by international courts.
The, “if you don’t want to be a war criminal, don’t do the office just leaves the office in the hands of people who want to be war criminals” is an argument but Dorothy still doesn’t want to be a war criminal. This is an issue of personal ambition rather than idealism.
My problem with mantras such as “never let anyone crush your dreams” is that some dreams absolutely ought to be crushed. Some dreams suck honestly.
But is this one of them?
eh, as far as i’m concerned, this one is fine.
i mean, it feels ill-defined, and in fact no longer seems to work for Dorothy. maybe that’s also why i don’t feel like i could really judge it, it’s just sort of grandiose, even a bit unhinged honestly. but lots of people have whacky dreams for reasons beyond my comprehension and some even achieve them, so what do i know!
Good choice, Dorothy.
Oh Dorothy I just wanna give you a big hug. You are lost like you’ve never been before.
Among all your mates you’ve always been the one with a goal and drive and self-belief and now you’ve just had that bubble burst and you’re lost.
And even so you have the strength to know this and ask for help.
Sadly I don’t think you’ve gone to the best person.
Actual advice: Try to figure out what about the dream initially appealed to you, since even if you find yourself losing interest in the original goal, maybe it’s just you realizing that it’s not what’s going to get you what you wanted.
For example, with her, she wants to make changes and improve lives. Maybe instead of becoming US president, she might instead might find advocate work appealing, or working for a charity organization. Maybe she’d make for a good social worker. Etc etc.
I’ve literally thought about social worker for her. It’s an incredibly painful job, but it’s good, honest work.
Also, when you’re studying that, don’t they like, give you lots of rules, guidelines, and methods for interacting with humans? Seems like Dorothy would find that useful (I relate)
Social worker would fit her interests but honestly, I think she needs a job that isn’t going to violently encourage her workaholic tendencies, where overworking isn’t the only means to save lives, and where real people won’t suffer when she inevitably burns herself to a cinder.
I’m thinking, like, middle manager at a company that makes something relatively value-neutral, and then she can go volunteer and donate and mutual aid and be an activist on the weekends.
You think that filling her free time with volunteering isn’t all of those things that you just said that she should avoid? At least if it’s your day-job you can practise compartmentalising it into a ‘I don’t have to care if I’m not on the clock’ box and try to stick to <50 hours a week; if it’s your hobby then you’re never going to get an actual break.
I think it would be way the fuck less stress than social work, way less responsibility, and if she’s volunteering, she’s way less likely to be the only thing standing between other human beings and horrors when she can’t do it anymore. Most jobs that genuinely help people require a lot of discipline to stop and be “off the clock” about, even if it’s the only way to stay baseline functional.
I neither think she could or will actually stop and I’m not going to assume she learns to avoid burnout before she’s like 30 at least. She doesn’t seem the type to learn her limits until her body makes her.
Personally I could see her in a more supportive or managerial role in a social work-related career. Like, say there’s an organization working to provide therapy to low income and otherwise marginalized people; they’re also going to need someone to manage their finances and funding, such as grants and donations. Someone(s) who can be in charge or recruitment and staff development and community outreach and maintaining connections. Someone overseeing the big picture of the operation.
I think that would appeal to many aspects of Dorothy, including the mom friend.
😛 I went from wanting to animate on cartoons, to wanting to be a storyboard artist to saying “I just wanna do my own stuff online and maybe, just maybe if other people like it they’ll support me. I wanna make cartoons for the love of it, not to make money anymore. Otherwise I’ll never be happy.
<3.
Yeah very much this. Have an upvote, earthling. 😊
Yeah, this seems like good advice. I wonder if Dorothy has bothered to really think about why she wanted to be president before now. And if it’s doing good and helping people, there are much better ways to do that than becoming president. Especially since the US political system seems to be designed to corrupt people.
I’d suggest that this is absolutely the wrong way to look at it. “Doing good” isn’t the only way to do good, ironically enough. Preventing evil has its own merits. And all the folks who are arguing that she should give up because all Presidents are evil are basically suggesting that we would be just as bad off under President DeSantis as we are under Biden (for whom I have no real fondness, frankly).
Dorothy may have needed a reality check on what being President (or really, any elected role) would mean, but that’s not what Raidah gave her. Instead, she spouted Chomsky for Dummies, with no intent other than to hurt Dorothy (whom, I remind folks, she’s never even met, before) as part of some Byzantine scheme to get back at Joyce & Sarah–and even within that context, this is a dumb approach, as encouraging Dotty to do everything she can to get into office would push her into going to Yale, and thus out of Joyce’s support-network.
Raidah simply cannot find a level to be right on–it’s wrong, all the way down.
Maybe. There’s a difference: making a few individuals’ lives better vs. making The System work better for everyone. These take different types. Dorothy might find helping individuals one at a time absorbing but ultimately unfulfilling. We really don’t know what she would be like if she had a position that would enable her to help others en masse.
I think she should look into how she can support unionizing efforts. Become a union lawyer maybe. It’s like one of the few ways to actually make a meaningful difference on a whole
And so her painful transformation continues. 🥺
*plays “The Elektro Suite” from The Amazing Spider Man 2*
Yeah. I had that conversation with my therapist.
How’d it go?
As an animator who’s realized he’s bad at animating, too easily distracted, The industry is fucked, AI is slowly making him redundant, and is overall not equipped to pursue the job he’s spent his entire life from childhood wanting…
Lemme know if you figure it out.
🥺
It hurts me to hear you say that.
But I understand.
Yeah, the whole thing’s rigged.
Very much the way I’m feeling about the academia (maybe minus the AI bit). Grad school made me fall from “I wanna be Smarter Than Everyone Else and do Great Things” down to “meh, I’m just fine working a corporate job and being a mum, probably”, which should be all right if I do both of these things well enough but somehow seems unambitious and hence against what used to be my defining characteristic for years.
I think being really into parenting is a legit ambition.
Plus, needing to be Smarter Than You means that everyone you meet needs to be dumber than you, or else you’re failing… you can do better than that ambition. How about an ambition more like, Gain Wisdom, instead? That’d set everyone up as guides and teachers and people on the same journey as you.
Before you beat yourself up too much, just remember that everybody is bad at what they do. I mean, look at the state of the world, does this look like the work of competent people?
Yes it does. There are plenty of well-built bridges; well-run farms; people who would have died but for good doctoring; on and on and on. Society would have collapsed and humans been obliterated long ago, were there not competent people enough to overcome the incompetents.
“I have dreams like you, no, really
Just much less touchy feely
They mainly happen somewhere warm and sunny
On an island that I own
Tanned and rested and alone
Surrounded by enormous piles of money”
– Ruth, possibly
The first time I saw Tangled I watched it every day for a week straight. It’s very nearly a perfect movie.
I was 21 and it was early 2014.
I wonder how much this is going to come to a head over the Yale decision.
Dorothy still has the ambition to succeed and to do good, even if it’s not in an area of politics. The problem is that if she’s directionless, then she might not be sure what she’s going to Yale for.
To add to that, Sarah may have put the idea in her head that her spreadsheeting and hyperfocus on detail may just be a quirk of her brain, rather than a product of her actual drive.
For today Reddit post brought up one of my favorite Shortpacks side character:https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbingofage/comments/11vawfo/dumbing_of_age_headcannon_buckets_of_blood_guy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Didn’t Buckets of Blood Guy show up in a couple of the very early IT class strips here?
I think I’m gonna take a break from commenting for a while – at least on this storyline. This storyline is making me feel really really bad for both personal and wider context reasons and I don’t want to bring anyone else down talking about it or bring myself down watching people enjoy it. It’s possible that’ll change but I really don’t like where this storyline seems to be going. I’m only posting this here so that people aren’t concerned if I stop commenting.
OK. Take care of yourself.
See you next chapter. Take care of yourself.
Sorry to hear that BBCC. I always enjoy your comments. Do you want to tell us about why this storyline is making you feel this way? I know i’m ok with hearing bummer stories, it won’t bring me down. I’m… used to it? Is that a weird thing to say. It’s true though. Anyway, your call. Be well <3
I’m tired of stories where ambitious women don’t get their ambition, for whatever reason. Enough. There’s plenty of them already. Them ‘~realizing they’re not suited for it~’ or ‘~most people change their minds on their dreams so it’s okay~’ or ‘~she realized the power would corrupt her~’ are all just variations on that. And I didn’t think this was going to be a problem with this story before because of how Dorothy had talked about that same issue, and hey, maybe I’m jumping the gun – this storyline isn’t over yet, but watching so much of the comment section cheer for that to happen has been really demoralizing for me. The fact I’ve been stuck job searching for two years and am starting to get the ‘maybe you should try another field’ advice hasn’t helped. Other people have the right to want it, but it’s bringing me down and I don’t really want to rain on anyone’s parade, so I think it’s best to keep commenting on this storyline to a minimum. I’ll still be around for other character’s storylines and everything else is going well for me so I’m okay, just really not enjoying Dorothy’s specific story right now.
Yeah. A lot of that has been bothering me to.
I do wonder how much of it is the change in people’s (and Willis’s?) attitude towards the job since 2010.
yeah, i do suspect that having a central sympathetic character who was established as having presidential ambitions in the Obama era got uncomfortable over the years, and Willis felt he needed to do something about that. (What in specific is not yet clear.)
But regardless, it’s true Dorothy is(was?) the only female protag who was ambitious and driven, and also had an actual political consciousness. I find the ostentatious cynicism in the comments irritating and a bit troubling. although for my part, what with the strikes and riots going on in france these days, I’m not yet inclined to despondancy.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your career trouble BBCC. Fingers crossed that you will find something. Good on you for deciding to step back rather than get worked up. See you in a few strips then <3
Hmm maybe “actual political consciousness” was not the best wording for what i was trying to say. But you know what i mean.
Willis did say Dorothy was less idealistic and more cynical post Trump, so maybe this will be part of that before she comes out the other side. Who knows?
I hope that’s what’s going on, rather than her actually giving up on the idea because she doesn’t want to be evil or because it was always just a pipe dream she had no chance at anyway.
I’m not the biggest fans of the middle seasons of How I Met Your Mother, but there was one episode I really liked (“The Leap”). At that point, Ted has been worn down and burnt out from continually trying to be an architect and Lily asks him ‘okay, why do you HAVE to be an architect?”
“Because! I have to be an architect. That’s the dream.”
And then Lily basically just lays it out that they all had dreams at one point and a lot of them had modified or changed their dreams entirely at some point.
Dorothy doesn’t have to lose her passion for politics entirely. Maybe she might. Maybe she might not. But as Leslie said, you might always have had the idea of the finished sculpture in your mind. But each new experience and knowledge changes the shape of the sculpture. Maybe it’s subtle, maybe the details have changed, maybe it’s a completely new direction. But it doesn’t make the previous work into the sculpture wasted.
I mean, I’m rambling a bit here. It’s perfectly normal to feel like the goal you’ve been working on for a long time suddenly feels foreign or unwanted in your hands.
Right? I wenttouni resist wanting to get into computer science, then I switched to engineering, then I switched to pure math, and then I had a nervous breakdown, and then I spent 15 years in a tech support call center, and I landed in accounting and I love it and I’m gonna do it ‘til I die with my spreadsheets.
*went to university
Gaddang spacebar
I tried electrical engineering, English, physics, then Japanese, before bouncing off university before doing culinary school after years working in a pizzeria. I can at least remembsr being very into food when I was young, but I don’t think I ever imagined working long-term in food.
Dorothy’s goal for presidency had always been ambition driven. But now she’s growing aware that the profession of politics has plenty of people who are in it for ambition only and a good number of them are scumbags making self beneficial choices that usually affects hundreds of thousands of people.
My girlfriend: That’s not true, Ruth! You’ve wanted things! They’re just things you’re stigmatized for wanting because you’re a woman.
Me: Like death? And alcohol?
My girlfriend: Actually, yeah!
(She then went on to make some really rad points about how mental health problems and vice are more stigmatized for women, I just thought this exchange was really funny)
Okay, serious answer to Dorothy’s question here:
Dorothy’s at a stage in her life where she’s still got a choice of several life paths ahead of her, and when she’s still making discoveries about what those paths look like and entail and whether or not she’ll find them rich, fulfilling, enjoyable, and secure.
This means that she’s free to and likely to change her choice of path several times in the coming years, and her strategy going forward should reflect that. For now, she should make education choices that give her a solid knowledge base and broadly-applicable skills, but also things like consulting with career counselors, doing informational interviewing, job shadowing, and so on. These things can be both for exploring new potential careers, and also for the potential career she’d previously planned on. (And maybe related careers, like lobbying, political organizing, etc.)
Ruth, the right answer for you is to refer Dorothy to the university’s career development center. … and maybe do the whole human connection thing if your antidepressants gifted you with enough spoons for that today, but be sure she gets referred to people with the right specialization.
And of course, the objectively right response for ME is to shout advice at characters who can’t see me, whose actions have been laid out and set in e-stone months ago, and who are going to do something dumb and screw up because this is DUMBING OF AGE. …. YES THIS IS TOO A RATIONAL THING FOR ME TO BE DOING SHUT UP!
Dammit, how the hell is this a reply, it was meant to be its own post…
I believe you speak for several- if not many – of your fellow readers here.
God forbid women do anything these days /j
Keep her.
Five years this June!
Changing one’s mind is totally normal… so ride the existential crisis for all it’s worth. Then, once you’ve calmed down a bit from that… get to know yourself more. You no longer have to define yourself from that previous goal… you can figure out who you really want to be, and find a new goal from that.
What exactly is Ruth studying? Does anyone actually know?
Ruth is majoring in English.
Ah, ok thanks. Yeah, I guess I’ve met English majors who aren’t specifically lit up over the subject.
Pretty hard to imagine what it’s like to have never wanted anything. That sounds like a state of mind that spiritual acolytes spend a lifetime pursuing.
Not when it’s driven by depression.
Hmm good point, pardon my naiveté. I feel like Philipe in this scenario:
http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02022007
English major. I don’t remember when she mentioned it.
She mentioned it to Billie, once. Also, she sat in an English class mulling her relationship with Billie and thinking of her major, and whether her degree, if she got it, would mean anything.
Why would Dorothy go to Ruth for advice?
Why would someone go to a Pepsi vending machine for drinkable liquid?
A lot more people like pepsi than they know! A peer reviewed study handed out different types of coke to test subjects without telling them what kind it was, and asked which one they liked more. The control group got their drinks labeled.
A lot more people liked pepsi when they weren’t Told it was pepsi. In fact, if asked to tell the difference between coca cola and pepsi by taste, people often insisted the pepsi they drank must have been coca cola, because it tasted better for them. This is likely because coca cola’s aggressive marketing and brand recognition influenced their preferences, while disliking pepsi is something of a meme.
Does this have to do Anything with your metaphor? no, not at all
Carry on
The thing with Pepsi is that the sugar floats to the top. You have to take a pretty big sip to get the actual nasty flavor.
There was a whole challenge / marketing campaign about this back in the 70s!
That’s Pepsaganda and you know it.
Now, granted, I do think Pepsi is alright in small amounts, but it’s too sweet for me a lot of the time. Other colas, like Coke or RC, don’t usually feel so… is “sticky” the right word? Like, when I drink it, my throat feels exactly the same as my fingers feel if I spill some on my hand, if that makes sense. There’s a unique quality to it that’s hard to pinpoint, but that’s not because I’ve been Cokepilled, I’m just bad at articulating sensations.
What was the question, again?
Try the natural sugar Pepsi (formerly Throwback), it’s lighter and less “punch you in the face” sticky-sweet.
Pepsi when you want something that tastes like cola. Dr Pepper when you want something that tastes better, but also a little like medicine. Coke when you want something that tastes terrible and also a lot like medicine.
Root Beer when you’re grown up enough not to be insecure about drinking the best soft drink.
Barq’s or bust, tbh to be honest.
Preach.
Barq’s has bite! (That bite is caffeine, so therefore Barq’s is the best root beer.)
Root beer? It’s insidious… Just like the Federation.
Moxie is for when you want root beer but you also hate yourself.
Let me rephrase it a bit.
Dorothy is intelligent yet she’s going to someone only a year or two older, that was recently in a suicide pact, for life advice.
Does Dorothy really think Ruth is a good idea for a mentor type person?
I think her brain is pretty short circuited over this, and it is part of Ruth’s job to advise in some way…
She probably feels resistant to being this vulnerable to people she feels rely on her, and she’s spent a decent amount of effort toward being the person people rely on. And maybe the idea of others changing how they think about her (or how she thinks they think about her) would be scary, especially with those she’s closer to.
On a more unconscious level, it’s possible she’s looking for someone to tell her she can just crash and break down and give up, and maybe that would be something she could get from Ruth.
@last paragraph: oo yeah that makes a lot of sense!
Because Ruth is the proxy adult in the dorm? Because it’s Ruth’s job? It could’ve been worse. She could’ve gone to Sarah.
Didn’t Dorothy mention that she regularly sees a councillor, I mean what you say is true but surely Dorothy isn’t the most stable of individuals to put it mildly
Sarah at least would have likely sent Dorothy off to health services or whatever is the equivalent
Sure, she sees a councillor, but those are by appointment is my understanding. If she wants advice now, talking to her RA can’t hurt. Ruth knows all the services the school has to help career planning issues too, so she can point Dorothy there if nothing else.
She could ask Leslie, I guess, but Leslie’s honestly not THAT much older than her in the grand scheme of things, like isn’t she in her 20s?
I figure she’s starting with Ruth but is the type to turn to other people, too, and not just get her advice from one outlet.
Because it’s easier to ignore Ruth’s advice if she doesn’t like it, because Ruth has no particular authority in this area?
Why do army vets with PTSD talk about it with other vets more easily than they do therapists
You’re saying Dorothy is going through what Ruth has already gone through?
It’s probably best if she gets a head start on herself before she goes through what Ruth did. Starting here isn’t the worst idea.
I’m not saying that Dorothy has been through exactly what Ruth has gone through, no. Obviously not.
But they are both very clearly traumatized individuals. Ruth’s depression and lack of self-worth is deeply commingled with her trauma (loss of her parents, constant abuse from her grandfather.) Dorothy is, like, a textbook case of post-traumatic stress (dissociation due to triggering remarks, emotions she doesn’t know how to handle, etc.).
They’re both going through similar ordeals. They understand each other.
Ruth is the nearest authority figure and giving life advice is (ostensibly) part of her job
I guess it’s a good way to show how messed up Dorothy’s thought processes are, that she thinks going to Ruth is a good idea
I think at this point Dorothy is looking for a friend’s support but doesn’t want to confind in her close friends yet or see a career counselor because that feels too much like officially throwing in the towel.
I used to have a lot of dreams for my future that I’ve mostly given up on by now. It’s okay to realize that a dream you had for what you wanted to do as a job or become as an adult was unrealistic or not as good as you thought. Then you’re free to figure out a new dream to strive for, hopefully one that’s much better than the previous ones.
I actually think that Danny might be a good option to talk about this
He came here only to follow Dorothy around and the first day she broke up with him, and yet he’s still here
Still here and thriving, even.
Danny won’t be available to talk to because he’ll be on a double date.
With Walky.
Remember when Dorothy got made at Danny when he suggested she might change her mind about wanting to be president
Not sure she’d want to relive that interaction
don’t flatter yourself, Ruth, you are not the reincarnation of Buddha
She doesn’t think she is, she thinks she sucks and has got depression
I give her credit for trying to do her job. In a position she’s been forced into.
There’s no such thing as the reincarnation of Buddha. Getting out of reincarnation is the whole point of being a Buddha.
Classic disillusioned college kid. The answer to her question is “You get depressed, develop an addiction, and shut yourself off from anyone who might be able to help you in any way with even a slight problem. If you interact with anyone, you’ll do it by dropping a meme in a group chat once or twice a week so they don’t think you died. That or they’ll come by of their own volition to drag out on an outing because you haven’t seen sunlight in two months, you’ll go along, maybe you’ll pick up a trinket at a store, and then the moment you get home you’ll go right back to your spiral. This will continue until a magic pill is created that cures your depression, except it won’t because years of circling the drain have left you in a financial hole you’re never gonna climb out of and you can’t afford basic aspirin, let alone expensive brain pills. Oh, and while your body deteriorates from neglect, you’ll develop crippling insecurities about your self-image and wind up avoiding people even harder so they don’t see you like this.”
Okay, maybe it’s not the answer, but it’s a possible one.
“Then Sarah calls your dad and you go home.”
Yeah, see? It all works out.
I think you may have just described much of my life in the late 80’s and early 90’s. Fortunately, I finally found some actual help (maybe not enough, but some, anyway.)
Dotty… <3
The good news is that if you dumped someone so you had time to pad your CV, you can get back together with them.
At one point, Jennifer said Dorothy would at most end up a mid-level federal judge. And when Dorothy shaves off the childish parts of her dream to be president, being a judge or having a job in policy could be up her alley.
Robin called her a future news anchor once.
Honestly, “political reporter / analyst” would be right in her wheelhouse…
Hard to be needed often like this, eh, Ruth
“Are you shooting down my aspirations with that finger gun?”
Concentration mudra.
Oh hey, last panel is me. The hell happened for me to identity with Ruth of all people <_<
Come on Dorothy, think it through. Have you ever wanted to become president, or did you just want to be the best in class and get pets on the head from the teacher? And when you were like, four, you imagined the highest public office as an adult’s version of that, and never looked back, trusting in the validation of the adults who were impressed with you having any sort of clear ambition, building up your expectation that you should get the job, building a bias about what the job entails based on what you’d like it to be and what makes a person good at it based on what you’re good at, and then having this fantasy tested every day of college in the contact with a reality where you’re neither likeable enough to win a corridor popularity contest against Roz nor actually hungry for power, or anything else a person would have to be to be president. . .
So, okay, it is time to reexamine your entire life. Just don’t go thinking Raidah had anything to do with it.
I think what she wanted was to be Mom Friend Who Solves Everyone’s Problems (because she’s smart and organized and knows best) for, like, the entire country.
or, to put it yet another way, she wanted to be the kind of President one sees in movies and on TV – the kind that’s at least 80% fiction and/or propaganda.
She’s Leslie Knoppe without Ron.
Is it wrong/bad that I’m utterly distracted by Ruth’s cleavage?
It’s good that you’re aware of it.
How could you not be?
I love Ruth’s outfit in this chapter. It looks like she’s wearing the LTT Track Jacket (lttstoredotcom). Athleisure is a good thing.
Yeah, I think there’s way too much “both sides”-ing the antagonists of this strip, when, in actuality, they are just antagonists.
The clock isn’t right twice a day. That implies their intentions are good.
“Antagonist” doesn’t imply their intentions are bad.
No nuance only marys
Update your resume and get a new job as a supporting character in Questionable Content.
You can go to any one of the five colleges in that region (Smif being the default school) and work at the coffee shop. They’re about to lose Claire so there’s going to be an opening shortly.
You know, I thing bouncing new ambitions off Tannelore would do her good. Given her connections with mum, dad, and Station, Hannelore might have the perspective to genuinely relate.
She’d need to get an AnthroPC Companion first. Sorry, I don’t make the rules.
At least until she disappears like Raven, Penelope, Wil, Momo, Brun, Emily, Sven, the Secret Bakery crew…
And it sounds like we’re going to get both Cubetown and Northampton stories for a while. I have a feeling one setting will take most of the spotlight for a while, or they won’t get concurrent stories.
QC is the second comic product I know of with characters based in Northampton Mass.
The first was in the ’80s and went on to grander fame – the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. When they were published by Mirage Studios as a B&W comic book, much of their early exploits took place at a farmhouse near NoHamp.
I had a radio show in that town from 1983-1987 and got to know their office manager Cheryl quite well.
Meanwhile what troubles me most about this strip is Dorothy having an existential-crisis-level conversation standing in a doorway, in public, in a probably echo-ey and neon-lit corridor, and all within seconds of knocking on Ruth’s door. Wild.
Considering it kicked off in the lobby, this is an improvement.
well, in the lobby Dotty was just kind of standing there, now she’s saying this stuff out loud to another person. feels worse to me?
i’m not taking it that seriously within the story, i’m just noting what my spur gut reaction was to the strip. like whoah, this seems so… vulnerable?
myself i would want to sit down someplace quiet and private, have a cup of tea (or a few shots of rum if i’m being honest), take a deep breath… if i’m having an existential crisis, i’d rather be comfortable tyvm
I don’t think she’s even at rock bottom yet. Who is turning down their music to listen better and who is turning it up and closing their door?
You bet Mary’s got her door cracked open slightly.
Dumbing of Age book 13: Well, okay, first let me put myself in the mindset of somebody who’s built a life, or had dreams, or wanted anything
Yes, please.
Relatable. I thought I wanted to be a minister. Wasn’t easy building a life in the wreckage of that dream.
If you don’t mind my asking, why’d you stop?
It’s fine, it was a long time ago. The ministry is a profession that produces a lot of young car salesmen and insurance agents; it has a high attrition rate and training for it is poorly transferrable to other professions. Luckily I was and am handy with technology so I could make a living.
My pastoral internship crashed when I couldn’t hew a tight enough doctrinal line, arranged shelter and food for transients, and tried to organize the youth group to pick up litter. Not enough bible thumping and baptizing. The final straw was when I married a woman who had a child out of wedlock, turbocharging the rumor mill.
Much later, I ceased to believe in God at all.
So your church saw you doing useful things and took it personally? That scans.
My heart is breaking for both of them right now.
I really kind of hate this storyline. Or at least the reactions to it. Whether I wind up hating it or not depends on where it goes in the end.
I don’t like seeing Dorothy’s dream shot down – whether it’s because it’s an evil dream and no one good should every want to be president or just because Dorothy isn’t a perfect effortless politician.
Sure, people often decide or learn in college that what they thought they wanted to be wasn’t really for them. It happens. But Dorothy was our only main character with any real stated ambition, so having that die seems like a much broader statement than if there were others still passionate about their dreams.
There’s been a lot of negativity towards Dorothy’s goals all along and I hate to see her beaten down by it.
Yeah…
i am genuinely interested in where this is taking Dorothy, like, i really want her to have An Arc, so that’s keeping me engaged.
but you know, looking back, i am fairly annoyed at the fact that Dorothy’s confidence in her dream turns out to be shattered, of all things, by this uninspired cliche from a total stranger. like… wait what?
i just don’t buy that Dorothy wasn’t conscious that being prez meant to get her hands dirty. like. come on. she’s a polisci major, she’s had this dream for ever, she’s an over achiever and she reads all the books. how.
anyway, yeah. not totally vibing with this story myself so far
The problem, IMO, is that it was never a realistic goal for someone of her talents or character/nature. It was a child’s goal, a simplistic ideal of what politics and specifically the office of POTUS entails.
“I want people to see that I’m the good, smart, organized person who should solve everyone’s problems, and elect me to an office that has the power and responsibility to do exactly that, without ever having to do anything bad.”
Until the time skip, Dorothy was in many ways one of the most boring characters. She was incredibly pleasant and all of her “flaws” were nothings like “keeps to a schedule too well.”
The trauma of the kidnapping on top of the realization that her method of becoming president likely wouldn’t work and that she personally just isn’t much cut out for the job are shattering her in a way for which she is absolutely not prepared. We’re already seeing her develop more actual flaws, and they’ve fairly naturally grown from qualities that were originally positives.
She’s every group’s go-to mediator, but when Joyce came out as an atheist in the worst way possible, she demanded Joyce apologize to Becky. No searching for where “All Christians are stupid idots” came from like she probably would have in the fall.
She’s the mom friend who knows how to be an adult, but she’s not thinking straight, so when people come to her for advice (or when she just forces it on them) and her advice is really really bad, they blindly believe her anyway.
I largely like Dorothy because I’m an immense softie and don’t like mean characters, but her finally having flaws has made her a much more dynamic character and I’m looking forward to seeing her grow.
I knew a retired teacher who made a point that adult-seeming kids and teenagers were not mature, they were sophisticated. I see her Dorothy’s sophistication unraveling, especially since the timeskip/abduction. In retrospect, bits of her immaturity peeked through that I’d skimmed passed before. I think it’s going to be tough for her, but she can finally grow.
For me, the first steps are to re-examine why you wanted that dream to begin with. And then using the experience and understanding of the world as you have it, find if you still believe pursuing that dream woll fulfill those reasons. If yes, congratulations! You have just hit a roadblock that may rattle you but you can accommodate it as you continue.
If not, Congratulations! You’ve spent enough time and learned a lot by just acknowledging your old dream has issues that you hadn’t considered. In this state, you may feel a little more fragile and I recommend taking a week to just enjoy the small things with friends or on your own. So long as it’s genuine. From there, re-examine what might best achieve your dream. Remember to start with small achieveable goals, and consistently work towards them as you aim a little higher.
I’m pretty sure Zelda asked the exact same thing to Link in Breath of the Wild
Dorothy’s gonna come down from the Shrine of Wisdom after losing the election, right in time for Calamity Carla’s apocalyptic awakening.
Ruth’s coming full slav style.
You know she does know someone who has some insight in realizing their entire identity and plan for their whole life were vapor.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/ultimately
Then you let go of the narrative of your life you’ve been clinging to and try being free.
Too much freedom is how you get decision paralysis for 15 years.
I can relate to dorothy. for most of my highschool career and a few years into college i wanted to be an animator for disney. but the more i learned about the industry overall the less i wanted to even be an animator. it was awkward giving up on that dream not because of how dear it was to me, but because that was literally what everyone knew me for. 7 years later and im happy to say no one thinks of me like that anymore, but it was definitely a grueling process. hang in there dorothy !!
I hate relating to Ruth so much
Probably doesn’t help that she’s my favorite…
The color palette of this strip made me check the date and… no, today it’s not St Patrick’s.
Nope that was 2 days ago.