The Dumbing of Age Book 12 Kickstarter is live! And tonight we’re under $1k away from unlocking HALLOWEEN magnets!
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The Dumbing of Age Book 12 Kickstarter is live! And tonight we’re under $1k away from unlocking HALLOWEEN magnets!
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I would say something about Walky’s question but idk if I’m at liberty to disclose other people’s deets like that even anonymously (bc, you can kinda trace who I’m talking about with like five minutes of work)
strangely wise April Fool post tho??
If they’ve shared it on the internet, there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy of the salient information. But if it’s something you *happen* to personally know, then yeah, keeping a lid on it is definitely the moral action. 👍
They’re fictional characters
Pretty sure Ana is referencing how Walky’s question reflects on a real life person. Like 99.64% sure.
I’d say 99.83%, personally
it’s actually multiples but also yeah, not my deets to share
And anything you do to a fictional character is OK. Like you’d -never ever- do it to a real person.
eeeh. Surprisingly sound advice.
It is that simple. Tell Lucy to take a cold shower.
does that even work the same way? i feel like a cold shower wouldn’t help me but i prefer the cold overheat lol
Why though? What’s wrong with her wanting to have a sexual experience?
What’s wrong with Walky not wanting that?
Is that the issue here? Nothing wrong with not wanting to have sex. I though people are saying Lucy shouldn’t want it. If Walky doesn’t want to have sex with her, then he of course shouldn’t. She’ll be disappointed, but there’s plenty of that in the world. It kind of can’t be helped.
it probably would be best to talk it out/go slower or so, though the ‘third date’ is a stereotypical expectation for stuff (which i also thought was too fast but sometimes it’s either horny teenagers or adults that have already been around the block a few times and willing to be closer, but ppl should go at their own pace.)
have we even seen lucy and walky kiss, let hardcore making out? Tho i suppose they could also do some stuff that’s more ‘sexual’ but not full on penetration or so
That was I think the last suggestion and I’d be all for that approach, if it wasn’t all happening under inadvertent false premises.
Nothing.
But there might be future problems if she’s only willing to go that far because she thinks Walky’s said he’s in love with her.
Uh… we’re talking about university freshmen here. I know everything’s super dramatic when one is eighteen, but even so. Just… relax and live a little kids.
Dumbing of Age Book 13: If You’re Not Ready, You’re Not Ready
I’d vote more for “Well, That’s a Normal Thing to Say”
How about “And Joe?!”
At some point, you gotta be sure if fear’s the only thing holding you back.
Or if you’re genuinely feeling uncomfortable.
Good for you, Dorothy.
Also please god unlock those Halloween Magnets.
You gotta call Cthulhu by name bruh XD
ia ia
The book Kickstarter activity always follows a bathtub curve. The first couple days see a surge of activity, then there’s a lull for a couple weeks, then they pick back up at the end.
There will be more magnets.
And if you are, you are.
Maybe ponder on that part for a bit, Dorothy.
How dare you use her own words against her.
She’s making it very easy right now. I know she’s going through a serious emotional upheaval but that doesn’t change the fact that her attitude towards basically everything right now is kinda gross.
Yup.
People love climbing all over Dotty for opening her mouth. Is she perfect? Nope, no one is. Bear in mind, Walkerton asked for her advice. Also worth a ponder.
I think Armadillo is referencing Joyce being ready for a sexual experience and Dorothy trying to convince her she isn’t.
Never crossed my mind that she went to Joyce to keep her from trying to use the Walking Stick.
Bwahahahaha!
The Walking Stick helps her get where she wants to go.
It’s a travel aid. That’s all.
“Without my walking stick, I’d go insane
I can’t look my best I feel undressed without my cane.”
(Irving Berlin has written a song about everything.)
Joyce is ready, but will Dorothy be able to accept that?
Especially when the person Joyce is ready for is Joe?
Doesn’t seem like it, she clearly did the dryer “lesson” mainly to stop Joyce from getting with a real guy. Even if she personally dislikes Joe I think there’s also a bit of truth to what Roz said about her upholding the status que, she doesn’t like it when Joyce shows change.
…. I think it was to stop her from getting with Joe specifically. Dorothy has history with Joe. I don’t think she would have cared as much if Joyce was interested in some other guy that Dorothy didn’t disapprove of.
but realistically who? who would Dorothy accept as Joyce’s boyfriend?
….Danny?
Sal doesn’t accept Danny as a boyfriend. And he’s her boyfriend!
She was fine with Ethan, until she learned he was gay. The only objection to Jacob is that he was already dating someone else.
Her issue with Joe is specific to Joe and I think she’ll be fine with him if she’s ever given any real reason to think he’s changed.
This. I feel like people act like Dorothy (or Jennifer tbh) are way more unreasonable than they are.
Eeeeeeeeh, I think protecting Joyce Hardcore is one of Dorothy’s trauma responses.
Agree, she wasn’t initially this hard-core with making sure Joyce was taken care of before the bad dad arc.
honestly, good advice from Dorothy.
Good advice bad intentions like someone needs to stop Dotty now.
Which bad decision would you prefer she go for? Wrecking WalkyxLucy or wrecking JoycexJoe? Like, I don’t think she’ll manage either, but it’s kinda 50/50 which one she’s swinging at in a given moment.
Wrecking LucyxWalky is at least halfway done already by Lucy and Walky, so that seems better
Solid advice in panel 4, but I swan to john I will explode if Dorothy goes to badger Joyce for hanging out with Joe.
I do find it kind of funny Joe may have just cock blocked Walky here. I’m assuming that Dorothy was coming to 100% try and throw some ass Walky’s way until Joe was mentioned.
You say it’s funny, I say it’s a relief. I did not want to see that conversation happen regardless of how it ended.
Same
This just delays things. There’s a love triangle blooming, and it’s best to clear the air as soon as possible before people get hurt worse. One awkward conversation now is better than an argument later.
Is it really a love triangle, though? Seems like the attraction on the Dorothy/Walky axis is decidedly one-way.
It’s a Dorothy/Walky/Lucy love triangle. Walky is dating Lucy but clearly still cares about Dorothy who still has feelings for him as well. There’s three people who will be effected although I guess it’s more like a love “V” if you want to be technical. It still counts as a triangle though.
I would say the classic definition of a love triangle is, in fact, a Love V, given that most media historically hasn’t allowed for the existence of non-straight folks.
ACTUAL love triangles would be much more interesting. Dare I hope for Dorothy/Lucy sapphic shenanigans?
The only REAL love triangle was written by Shakespeare and everything after that is disappointing
Love stinks.
Yeah, yeah.
My feeling is that he cares about her as a friend, not a romantic partner, but it’s certainly possible that my take on this is way off. Of course, part of the problem here may be that Walky’s idea of what is and isn’t a romantic relationship is similarly off.
I think it’s a love bowtie. You know. Two triangles with an intersecting vertex.
Walky/Dorothy, Joyce/Dorothy, Lucy/Dorothy, Joe/Dorothy? Except that last edge has sunk into abyssal mud while still being on fire.
Oh no, Joe’s greatest fear realized!
It is funny how the smallest things change fate. Dorothy went there to do something stupid and it would be probably very messy drama, but some casual information from Walky and she is back to her old protective self (and maybe also full of drama, who knows)
The last phrase is weird. I meant that she probably still in a road that leads to drama, but hopefully not
Why? It made perfect sense.
Dorothy’s full of Drama. In another world, she might possess a #Drama tag, but in this one, she’s just full of it.
Also, sorry for accidentally flagging you. Purely my fault for getting lazy and lazily targeting the Reply link by color. Too bad there isn’t either a take-back option, or a “are you sure?” popup. Maybe even a CAPTCHA.
Dont sweat it 🙂
Also yeah, she really is full of drana
I’d say she’s being more overbearing then truly protective here, Joyce made it clear she wanted to see him and Dorothy can’t accept that she’s going through with it despite her meddling. If she does storm in on them it will just be a different kind of drama.
Yeah, it’s extremely hypocritical, especially given how self-aware she is.
Dorothy hears that Joyce is still with Joe and immediately starts running off to confront him. This can only lead to good things!
…April Fools.
Can’t make bad life decisions if she’s hyperfocused on sombody else’s life! No chance for resentment there at all.
Aha moment. Meanwhile, I was looking at scans of board games and came across an edition of The Game of Life that had a step that went “You Are Elected President!” I wonder if Dorothy got to play that as a girl.
Good advice from Dorothy! And hopefully Dorothy can see Joe is doing better soon because this is gonna be awkward as hell if not.
I see a lot of people are reading Dorothy in a much better light than I am here. That’s interesting! I interpret this as her applying Ruth’s advice from earlier and “being a little selfish”–putting her thumb on the Walky/Lucy scale. Last time Walky asked her for advice, she encouraged him. Now, burnt out and stressed and extremely emotionally compromised, she’s telling Walky to slow down.
I’m not saying it’s bad advice, but I’m definitely reading it in that vacuum.
*in that context, I mean. The opposite of reading it in a vacuum. XD
And to, like, clarify–I think the advice *would* be good if Walky said he wasn’t ready. But all he did was express nerves about being the more experienced partner, and Dorothy’s the one who projected him “not being ready”.
It’s totally possible that Dorothy read him and knew that he really isn’t ready. I get why people read it that way! It’s not what I saw here, though.
Interesting point. I suppose it would have been better if Dorothy has talked to him a bit more and tried to suss out what his problem was. (Though, given her feelings for Walky and emotional turmoil, that might be above and beyond.) That aside, given that their previous conversation ended with Walky deciding to give himself time to basically catch up to Lucy’s level of feelings, I don’t think this is an inappropriate conclusion for Dorothy to jump to.
Yeah, it’s kind of not ok for Walky to be coming to Dorothy for this kind of advice, even if Dorothy was doing well right now. And we in the audience know that she is in fact very not doing well.
I agree that Dorothy’s advice was good though. It seems like it shouldn’t be that simple. But it really is the right frame of reference. Walky would benefit from no longer worrying about who has more experience and just start with the basics. “Am I ready for this, yes or no?”
Answer that question first, sit with it for a while, and only then consider trying to figure out what to do about it.
But at the same time, it’s not responding to what he’s actually asking about. It’s like she’s just going back to the earlier discussion and not reacting to this one.
Whether that’s because she’s not focused on him because she’s been distracted by her concern about Joyce or because of her own feelings about Walky.
I don’t see why Walky wouldn’t feel it is ok to ask this to Dorothy
Dorothy set them up
the last time he asked Dorothy a question about his and Lucy’s relationship, he _did_ ask before if it was ok, and was told yes
he has probed for the limits, has found Dorothy to be ok with it
He’s obviously not ready and feeling very uncomfortable about this whole relationship, but I’m glad Dorothy didn’t bend over backwards again to shove Walky at crazy-pants Lucy. If he has to be hand-held through every stage of the relationship it’s not a healthy one.
But yes, good for Dorothy for snapping out of her lust-addled state and also for not biting his head completely off for the unmitigated fall of asking his ex for advice like she’s the pope.
In all fairness, who else is he gonna ask?
I understand that the Pope is out of the hospital now.
Dorothy seems to be projecting her own wants onto both Walky and Joyce here, Walkys asking for advice on how to proceed means being unready in her mind; while it isn’t the worst interpretation it also isn’t quit what he was looking for and is a bit self serving. Next she’s decided Joyce is rushing into something self destructive because that’s what she longs to do herself.
I think Dorothy has a tendency to think she’s great at analyzing situations and deciding what’s best for everyone. She’s not much better than anyone else at it though.
She didn’t answer the question he asked. She answered the question she thought he should have asked. If it’s applicable, it’s just because its generic advice. Still better than “mislead her into thinking you love her”.
Interesting that Walky has not gone to Booster for advice…
It’s actually better advice! In context it’s ironic.
That smile in panel one, the “not here to stop me” line.
Trying to mitigate the damage of her attempt to break up Walky and Lucy by making sure Walky doesn’t bang Lucy before she tries to make him cheat on Lucy.
Yeah no, Dotty’s being an ass here.
It’s good advice given for the wrong reasons.
And really, if she somehow gets him to break up with Lucy after Walky has already done a sex on Lucy, she’s just turned him into Joe.
Well, what she thinks Joe is.
You think she said that in part because she doesnt want them to have sex?
Absolutely.
I interpret it that way too, similar to her whole “I’m gonna teach Joyce to masturbate so she won’t wanna fuck Joe”. Interesting… interesting little tendency there for Dorothy. Guess she doesn’t want either Walky or Joyce to get some if she’s not getting it with them.
If Walky bangs Lucy, that means their relationship is Real.
Plus it’ll mean he’s really moved on from Dorothy while she very much hasn’t moved on from him.
That girl is trouble, Walky is smart to have some inkling that she will become even more possessive if they have sex. She’s going to expect a proposal.
Hadn’t considered that angle, but not that I see it I can’t say it’s out of character with how Dorothy’s been acting recently.
Dorothy trying to be rash and selfish is accidentally more responsible than Dorothy thinking she’s responsible and selfless.
She wants to be each. Have we not all been in a situation in which we genuinely wanted to do the right and loving thing, and at the same time wanted to give in to temptation and be purely selfish?
Yes, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
I took it as Dorothy’s being pretty frank with Walky here. She knows he’s not over her completely, because he all but said it in their last encounter. There probably is a little selfishness there because she’s definitely not over him. I don’t think she’s going to actively meddle, but she really needs to set some boundaries here.
Also, she reeeeeeeallly needs to back off with Joyce. Joe may or may not be a jerk and hurt Joyce, but that’s not for Dorothy to determine for Joyce. It’s like Dorothy’s making decision after decision on Joyce’s behalf when Joyce has expressed no wish or interest for her to do so, and even told her to back off. This isn’t going to end well, and Dorothy is being an ableist jerk.
The concern for Joyce is valid and reasonable. Backing off isn’t really the right move here, but neither is how she’s been going about it. Talking to her about her concerns is. Give Joyce the chance to tell her why she thinks Joe isn’t still the sex pest Dorothy knows.
Yeah, but that would require seeing an autistic person as an adult and that’s just too much.
Joyce has also made no attempt to discuss it. The closest attempt Dorothy made, Joyce reacted by denying she had any interest at all in Joe’s tushie.
That’s interesting – it’s the opposite of me! I think people here read Dorothy way worse than I do. To Dorothy, she’s protecting Walky from hurting Lucy and hurting himself. Which, yeah, him having sex with Lucy when he doesn’t want to *is* going to hurt them both! And based on his last conversation with Dorothy, I also would have read Walky as not being ready or even wanting to progress things with Lucy. His initial reaction was “my parents are going to be pissed I’m dating a Black girl,” and “omg you like comics and are also a girl.” This is not a healthy relationship.
As for Joyce and Joe, to Dorothy he’s a complete womanizer. They went to high school together, possibly middle school as well. If the last 5-8 years I had known someone who completely disrespected women by having a do-list and talking about them as conquests, I would *also* take issue with my best friend dating them. People are somehow interpreting this as “Dorothy doesn’t think Joyce is ready for sex,” but it’s “Dorothy doesn’t want Joyce to be entangled with a womanizing jerk.” Dorothy was only not fine with Ethan when she found out he was gay (reasonable), and was not fine with Jacob because he was already in a monog relationship (also reasonable). Dorothy is supportive of Joyce finding someone! Just not Joe. Especially because the way Joyce talks about things, it sounds like pure lust, which is Very Bad wrt someone who is a womanizer.
Lastly, they all just got kidnapped like 3 months ago. If anything, the rest of them should be more protective of each other. Dorothy is really the only one acting reasonable. I *wish* I had a mom friend like that in college.
Sorry Walky, but I think Joyce just went above you on Dorothy’s “Butts I Want to Bite” list.
“Also don’t teach her everything wrong, as a joke. I did that with you and it had long term consequences.”
he thinks losing is winning
he’s sam hinkie, isn’t he?
dammit.
Two relevant Rules of the Internet come to mind, according to TV Tropes:
“All wins become losses eventually.”
“If you lose hard enough, it can become a win” hence the earthling concept of an “Epic Failure”.
Losing can be winning in this case…
At the restaurant where I work there’s a pizza called “The Betty” and I think about this movie every time.
Also, “Face-to-Foot style” could be remixed with Joe, Joyce, and Joe’s butt that Joyce wants to knead her face.
So Dorothy gives better advice to Walky about Lucy when she’s trying to be selfish. I’m going to bask in how wholesome that is until she ruins it by blowing up at Joe and Joyce.
That’s a blowup that is overdue, can lead to wholesomeness if managed right, and could unkink several characters’ misplaced concerns. The sooner it happens and they actually hear each other, the better.
Dotty’s advice: good
Dotty’s motivation: ehhhhhhhhh
Not that it’s immediately relevant to today’s strip, but did we ever get a payoff to Dorothy being annoyed at Joyce about the whole art class/art supplies thing? (If there was, I missed it.)
In other news, that first sentence Dorothy said is giving me alarm bells. Big time.
I’m quite relieved she got over her impulse to try and bang him, it would hurt her even more to be rejected. (The Walky she still loves isn’t that kind of guy.)
Walky, stop breathing. Dorothy, go mount Joe in front of Joyce as a show of dominance. It’s canon that he’s already considering it, in this scenario.
Of all the strips with Walky using his breath to talk this has to be one of the least troublesome ones.
He talked to a person who was talking to him. He’s lucky nobody’s sent a SWAT team after him yet.
Is anyone else still seeing Walky as just not that into Lucy?
A little bit? I think he’s doing his best to be a good partner, but it seems a bit like he’s doing it out of obligation.
And also at a pace he’s not super comfortable with. She’s been emotionally dating him for months, but he only just felt like getting started. But since she’s had all that time built up, she’s already gunning for milestones where he’s barely considering them.
I don’t think it’s out obligation I think he is into it but they have been on three dates and have been together for like what a week to a month. I think the main issue is there is an imbalance on who cares more Lucy is way way too into Walky this early into a relationship though she had been pining for him longer then he realizes.
I think it’s more she’s full tilt and he is not used to him being the lower energy person. Dorothy kinda just had him as a rebound and then he dated Amber out of mutual self-loathing. I think he likes Lucy but she’s just a bit overwhelming and he doesn’t know how to broach that without hurting her.
I like this take. It’s a good take.
He doesn’t dislike spending time with Lucy, but she’s pedal-to-the-metal and he’s not.
Being on the receiving end of someone’s super-intense crush can be extremely uncomfortable, even if you like that person back.
And it doesn’t help that Walky’s self-esteem isn’t very high. He has trouble believing that either Dorothy or Lucy could like him, so he has no idea what to do with himself here.
He’s just going slower because of what happened the last two times he went full-bore into a relationship.
Dudes had his heart kicked in twice in less then a year, he’s not going to go all puppy eyes anymore.
I’d say more that he’s less into her than she is into him. If he were “not into Lucy” they shouldn’t be together. I’d say it’s not that wide a gulf.
Agree with this. Keeping up with Lucy is a really high bar to be measuring against for this metric.
He needs to assert himself and find a way to slow things down, but that’s not doom.
This is a case of mismatched expectations for the relationship, I think.
Oh absolutely. Walky is ABSOLUTELY just going through the motions. He’s just dating her because he feels like he SHOULD date a cute girl who’s interested in him. He can’t think of a logical reason not to…so he’s ignoring his own feelings.
This is sabotage disguised as aid
I agree. It sounds like wisdom, but in my experience, wisdom isn’t usually something you can fit on a bumper sticker. Besides, it’s total BS. If you think you can know when you’re ready to take control in a sexual situation, you probably need to stop overthinking it. It’s not that complicated. Go slow. Be gentle. Be respectful. Ask questions. Listen—REALLY listen to the answers. Be sure you know what your partner wants. If you have to guess, YOU DON’T KNOW. And always remember the consent mantras: “Yes means yes,” and “No means stop.”
I think the problem is that Walky isn’t sure that he wants to yet.
i mean telling him “you should have sex anyways” def wouldn’t be that much better but they do need to have a serious convo at some point
This is Rachel telling Ross it is sexy to wait.
Maybe she would have been a good US president after all.
I’m guessing everyone pointed that Dotty is a bit of hypocrite she was fully committed to a bad choice only stoped by her perception that Joyce is making a bad choice.
I feel like at this point the only real question is how long until Dorothy tries to shag Walky again. Will it be immediately after an argument with Joyce? After a night of frustration about her own choices?
Also, what will Walky do about it
I am hoping Joyce manages to talk some sense into Dotty to end this sptlrial.
At some point Joyce needs to stand up to her and hopefully that catalyst for Dotty to just step back.
Problem is Dorothy hasn’t really tried to talk to Joyce about this. In the closest attempt Joyce just went into pure denial about how she didn’t want Joe’s tush.
Dorothy has real concerns about Joe and Joyce hasn’t given her any reason to think she’s on top of the situation.
Seriously though, if there are concerns besides Joe being a jerk and a womanizer (things Joyce already knew) then the pressure should be on Dorothy to explain herself to Joyce with the acceptance that she can only offer advice not act as Joyce’s legal guardian. There should be not expectation for Joyce to justify her personal decisions to meet Dorothy’s approval which is unfortunately the dynamic Dorothy has created.
Dorothy’s attempts to get Joyce to listen:
1) Grabbing her to get her to forcibly stop
2) Forcing her to masterbate
“Forcing”
I definitely agree she’s handling this very badly, though the grabbing her part lead to at least an attempt to talk about it. The one that foundered on Joyce’s denial.
I mean she pretty blatantly was here to do that before Walky brought up Joyce and Joe
Yeah I ain’t ready *fwip*
*hums When I’m Good and Ready by Sybil*
Hey Willis I wanna go by my main alias here, NGPZ, more gender affirming, easier to type and not a reference to an earthling meme thing that’s now “dead”. Thanks in advance!
Ooops sorry!
I’m an April Fool I guess! XD
Shit, who isn’t.
Congratulationz, alien parasite!
Wellerperson has too many syllables for the song, but Wellerone would work (pronounced well-er-won, not well-er-own). The whale in the song could be changed to “they” too (unless someone on the boat spoke fish and asked Dory to confirm the whale’s pronouns).
Also, does the P in NGPZ stand for parasite?
Yup! XD
In some contexts it also stands for “programmer”.
Wellerthem
Nice
DAMNIT JOYCE AND JOE
When Dorothy catches up with Joyce, I do want Joyce to get her hackles up and say, “bongo you are NOT my mother. BACK OFF.”
Same, I’m really hoping this time Joyce finally puts her foot down. She and Joe are already figuring things out for themselves and a hyperjugmental Dorothy is the last thing they need.
I feel like, “You are acting like my mother,” would be a harsher burn.
Because Dorothy has met Joyce’s mom.
Yup.
That’s what needs to happen exactly. Because she is.
A sarcastic “yes, mother” from Joyce as she and Joe walk away would do it.
Yes. Excellent.
So Dorothy is in a time of uncertainty due to her realization that she may no longer WANT to be president or go to Yale. She then naturally combating that uncertainty by fixating on the familiar, self destructive as it is, for thr sense of comfort and control. It’s wrong, but understandable from a psychological point of view.
She’ll end up doing what a lot of people do and realize that she can find a good yob whether she’s been to Yale or not.
It’s also literally the advice she got from her proximate authority figure. Like, of all the ways to be dumb of age, Dorothy found the Dorothyest one.
I’m going to be honest here. My post was only made to insert a dumb joke. One that appears to have crashed and burned rather badly.
There, Dotty. Good, selfish advice. Now if you could let go of the Joe thing…
“You drag them by the arm through the rain to your dorm and chuck your roommate out the door. Make sure to grab ’em by the junk in the elevator.”
Running to scold Joyce and Joe for their lascivious class-walking-togethering instead of self-destructing by attempting to seduce Walky on a pile of dirt as he contemplates that he doesn’t actually want to fuck his gf? Couldn’t be me! Not only do I disagree with her motivations (even IF Dorothy were correct about her unfavorable assessment of Joe, COLLEGE IS FOR MAKING DUMB HORNY MISTAKES), her methods are only going to blow up in her face. Helping Joyce take ownership of her sexuality would’ve been weird but fine–if her ulterior motive wasn’t to prevent Joyce from sexually experimenting with Joe. Trying to forbid Joyce from /even the most innocuous way to spend time together on a college campus ever/ is going to backfire so hard. If Dotty /actually/ wanted to be a supportive friend, she wouldn’t be picking and choosing about when to support Joyce’s sexual autonomy. If Dorothy rolls up on them with some kind of “step away from the Joe” bs, I hope Joyce puts her hand in Joe’s back pocket, squeezes that tush, and says “what’re you gonna do about it, MOM?”
Thus concludes my critical essay / speculative fanfic. (if you reply to me in disagreement I will be mean to you, debate team style. You have been warned.)
first college guy she’s been open to pursuing who isn’t gay or in a relationship! the growth!
Yeah, I hope Joyce lays down the law.
the law that she only needs /Joe’s/ permission to touch Joe’s tushie!
Is it possible for Willis to autochange any comment of the word “butt” to “tushie” for the time being? It is Joyce’s favorite term for it.
So what you’re saying is Roz is right.
We can criticize Dorothy’s behavior without resorting to Joe apologia
Dorothy when someone else is making decisions around sex: “You should do whatever makes you comfortable.”
Dorothy when Joyce wants to touch Joe’s butt (and then some): “How dare you flagrantly disregard the word of the high council.”
“When you first saw Joe’s tushie, were you blinded by its majesty?”
This advice isn’t necessarily bad, but Dorothy shouldn’t be giving it, and Walky shouldn’t be asking for it from her.
Her motivations are screwed, and even if Walky doesn’t realize she’s still hung up on him he really shouldn’t be asking for dating advice from somebody he relatively recently broke up with. It’s just bad manners.
IS Walky ready? Heck if I know! But what I do know is that Dorothy only said that because she doesn’t want him to be ready, and on some level she hopes that by saying that, he’ll believe it. She might not realize that’s the motivation here, and even without that she might have still given him the same advice – but again, she is in no position to give advice like this to Walky. What she ought to have done is said “I can’t give you advice on this, go ask somebody else.”
Dorothy kind of put herself in the place of being who Walky would go to for advice when she pushed him at Lucy. I don’t mean that to be a full throated defense of Walky, but it’s something.
Walky really needs to expand his circle of friends, actually how many friends does he have?
Depends on how you define friends I guess. He’s definitely the guy who hangs with the girls so maybe that puts up a barrier on who he can confide in. Complicated more since most of his “friends” he’s also dated (Dorothy, Amber, Lucy) Other than that Joyce is probably a friend, Becky too, although neither really hangs out with him beyond walks to class. Jennifer was “the” best friend and probably still is despite the relationship souring lately. Uh…who else?…Booster seems to be making good progress with him. I think that’s it. I hesitate to claim either Joe or Danny are really friends with Walky. Need to see more interactions between the guys for that.
Asher might be a friend now actually, unless all that bro stuff during the breakfast date was performative.
I would actually love to see Walky and Asher talk about relationships TBH
That’s the thing here I guess.
He has very few friends in general, no guy friends (maybe Asher has potential to become a friend) so he’s basically forced to seek advice from an ex romantic partner and that’s not ideal
Best advice for Walky is to be open and honest and talk to Lucy about his concerns and also expand his circle of friends
Walky only knows, on terms sufficiently intimate to ask about this matter, one person who he knows has been in the situation that he wants to understand. Who else is he gonna ask?
I think Dorothy read him well and is giving caring advice. That it is the same as what selfishness would say in this moment is irrelevant. Sometimes caring and selfishness come to the same answer. Both reasons can be “the real reason” at the same time. What matters is which path you choose when they diverge again.
It’s also not the advice Walky asked for. Dorothy’s coping mechanism is deciding what’s best for other people’s situations and telling them what they should be doing and thinking to achieve that.
“Well that’s a normal thing to say” might be my new favorite line from here. I will be looking for opportunities to say that in real life.
“RIP small talk” was a great one too. I think it was from Danny? To Ethan maybe? All i can remember is it was in the elevator
I really hope Dorothy learns soon that Joe is not the same as he was when they started college a few months ago.
i need roz in this arc
dotty needs some boundaries
Oh no, Dorothy! Your adult friend who is fully your peer is walking, completely in public and wearing layers because it’s cold, next to but not touching a male of whom you disapprove! You must run and stop this heedless and risky behavior known as ‘going to a shared class’! It cannot stand!
Its worse than that.
Joe has flagrantly ignored Dorothys orders to keep away from Joyce and Joyce is encouraging Joes attention.
Off with their heads!
But seriously as much as I hope Dorothy doesn’t do anything dumb, I would like it to be Joe that stands up for himself (or rather his current growth) and puts Dorothy in her place if it comes to it
Of course it’ll probably be Joyce that does it and that’ll still be cool
I don’t disagree with Dorothy’s advice here. We do know that Walky *wants* to consummate things with Lucy, but we also know that Walky doesn’t take that step lightly. (He never had sex with Amber, for instance, like for a number of reasons, and didn’t take it further than grinding and such.)
I don’t necessarily attach a ton of personal meaning to the concept of virginity, but I do feel it’s rather obviously important to Lucy and Walky, so them showing some caution isn’t necessarily a bad idea. Lucky will, hopefully, understand that Walky is trying to not do anything hasty here, like he rather obviously wants to do right by her.
I do, however, also hope he listens to her side of things, too, and doesn’t wind up patronizing her in the process.
The issue I have with the advice is that its just so…meh
Yes its good general advice but specifically it does nothing for Walky here because Lucy has made it clear that sex is not on the table but other things certainly are so Walky asked a question that needs more clarification and Dorothy gives an answer that sounds like it comes straight from a PSA
Walky is framing his dilemma in terms of sex, but I think he’s really worried about intimacy. And Dorothy’s advice works either way.
I think I would value a friend like Dorothy even if she were additionally moved to sabotage my relationship with someone else. I can look at such advice through my own lens and make up my own mind.
It’s a platitude, and it’s not wrong, but it doesn’t really answer Walky’s question whether or not it’s about sex or intimacy. It answers the question that Dorothy wants him to have asked, what she wants him to be thinking, and may be imagining to be thinking.
Some better advice for both Walky and Dorothy (and it’s platitude-level): communication. Dorothy should tell Walky she still wants to be with him. Her “advice” is all colored by that, so it’s essentially worthless. If it leads to him breaking up with Lucy to get back with Dorothy, ok, that’s her being selfish and rash, and not unreasonable. It will suck for Lucy, but that’s how heartbreak works…. Or Walky stops asking Dorothy for advice, and stays dating Lucy. Sucks for Dorothy, but that’s heartbreak, and it’s of her own design for dumping him and encouraging him to ask Lucy out.
And if Walky told Lucy how he actually feels about her, fond of her, but not enamored like she is, it might be embarrassing, but she should have the chance to realize relationships don’t have to follow the template she’s imagined. People can be ok with different levels of affection, especially early on. And even if she had the idea “sex is ok now, because we love each other”, she can be flexible.
And for the actual literal question Walky asked, communication is good for that too lol.
And just like that, Dorothy’s one-woman crusade against Joece is back on.
Can’t worry about your own affairs if you spend all your mental bandwidth meddling with those of others! [Dorothy doing the Roll Safe meme dot png]
Is that what I’m thinking about what Walky is saying? That he’s questioning her relationship with Lucy, only because he’s the sexuallity experienced but she’s not??
If it is it, I’m gonna really hate him.
…
And people have said virginity is not a big deal. Ha.
No, I think it’s more Walky just being uncomfortable that HE has to be the responsible one, because all his life he’s been so used to delegating that to others and just taking things easy.
And also… Dorothy, I sure as hell hope that your answer wasn’t chosen because you secretly want to break up Walky and Lucy. While it’s technically good advice (do NOT jump into bed with somebody if you don’t feel comfortable, kids), I can’t help but feel that her motivation for saying that is at least partly selfish.
Yeah, that. He’s having second thoughts about having sex with Lucy – if not the relationship as such – because he’s realized he’s going to have to be the mature one in this case. He might even have to *eye twitch* “teach” her things.
Did Walky’s mom at some point tell him he should have an older/more experienced girlfriend or am I thinking of some other fictional character? I’m sure she has thought it, anyway. It’s such a common idea, that dudes never have to grow up but just marry somebody who will act as their mom except also have sex with them. Would be very good for Walky to have to take some responsibility in his relationship, though I would hope Lucy doesn’t have to suffer for his lessons.
Sounds more like a Danny’s mom thing. Though I don’t recall anything specifically about sex.
Are you sure you’re not thinking of Claudia from FFVII, Cloud’s mom? She pretty much says those exact words to him at one point in the game. 😉
He’s questioning the relationship for a lot of reasons, but that is not one of them.
He’s anxious about sex because he’s the more knowledgeable one and will likely have to take the lead. He was aware of that going in so I doubt it’s a reason to jettison the entire relationship
I’m glad we’ve all finally caught up to “Dorothy, you are crossing 18 boundaries right now.” I was worried the main page was on its way to share Patreon’s “But Joyce and Dorothy are gonna fuuuuuuuuuu–“
I think I’m on both teams a little bit. I think Joyce might be bi or something and coming to terms with it, and Dorothy is being suuuuch an ass. Like, heavy ableist paternalism here especially after Joyce told her to back off. And I hate to be the one to say it, but Roz is 100000% in the right in this story arc. I’m happy that Dorothy finally got an asshole arc though. It had been a long time coming.
I just hope she grows from it.
Lately, when I read a strip with Dorothy, I feel like I’m watching a train whose conductor is unconscious, slumped across the “speed up” controls.
Ugh, now remembering the slo-mo trainwreck at the end of Silver Streak.
Dorothy’s last line is so weird – it’s both good general advice, and a blatant attempt to sabotage Walky and Lucy.
She’ll make a politician yet!
So, Dorothy has managed to find and purchase the elusive pair of Bad Idea Jeans, the Jeans that convince you all your worst impulses are fantastic ideas.
Seriously though, this is astonishing self-destruction.
Dorothy. You have expressed your opinion of Joe with crystal clarity and at length, already. What do you plan to do now? That won’t blow up an important friendship, that is.
Has she though? Have I forgotten a scene where she actually managed to talk to Joyce about why she thinks this is a bad idea?
She told Joe off, but what I remember from her interactions with Joyce, it’s all been about her or just manipulative.
I think she’s been pretty clear
And occasionally in passing while imparting her wisdom on other topics
“You will regret it.” “He’s bad news.” That’s no explanation at all. She just keeps repeating her judgment that was based on unstated evidence.
To be fair, Joyce hasn’t been willing to discuss it either. Or even admit she’s interested. And she’s even framed all of her denials in purely physical, sexual terms – not even giving the slightest hint she’d gotten to know him better before this crush.
Joyce already said the thing about Joe’s butt to Joe, Dorothy. It’s probs too late.
“Damn it, Walky! I am TRYING to make bad decisions!”
🙂
What was it that Dorothy was looking for Joyce for to stop her from doing?
Fucking Joe.
Oh wait, to stop Dorothy…
Not going to Yale, I think. She’s not the best person to come to about not pursuing someone with a girlfriend.
I think the implication is pretty clearly that it was trying to get Walky back.
I guess it’s the order of events that make it seem ambiguous to me. She first goes looking for Joyce, is told Joyce is in a class with Joe, then goes looking for Walky, then finds Walky, then learns Joyce is with Joe and heads in that direction. I can see that with Dorothy she’s short-circuiting and keeps flopping between her own personal drive and her parental/guardian drive, but I guess it’s something like this RE: her motivations:
1) Dorothy gets the impulse to try to “get Walky back,” in some sense.
2) She realizes this is a bad idea and looks for Joyce to help talk her down from this, since she thinks she just did this for Joyce.
3) Hearing Joyce is not there (possibly with Joe, at least in class,) Dorothy goes “oh well, I guess I’m going to go do the bad thing.”
4) Walks up to Walky with her intentions to make a move
5) Hears Joe is actually with Joyce, i.e. not only is Joyce in proximity to Joe but has specifically chosen to be in company of Joe despite Dorothy’s advice
6) Is completely rebooted into “protect Joyce mode,” once again completely bypassing her own needs and jumping into guardian mode
The opening stages of getting back together with Walky is how I read it.
I dunno guys. I actually think Dorothy will come around on this one.
That’s not how Willis Time works. We’re only a few days into January.
Wait I thought it was February?
It’s about the 20th of January, assuming “This Bright Millennium” started on the 9th and not the 2nd.
I kind of expect we’ll see a Brown Family chapter or two before February. John is supposedly leaving for India again in January. If his whole missionary life isn’t just a big fraud.
People in the comments really need to remember that Dorothy:
A. Has extremely real concerns about Joe based on her many years of knowing him vs one semester of personal growth that she has largely not been privy to
B. Has been given no indication by Joyce that she is equipped to navigate a relationship with, from Dorothy’s perspective, a predator
Dorothy isn’t in the right in this situation, and she’s been overly-controlling of Joyce this semester in general, but she’s not acting irrationally.
No, we actually don’t need to remember that, because we haven’t forgotten, because we can’t forget, because someone is constantly bringing it up.
Yeah, people are always so damn quick to justify everything she does. I never see that same energy when talking about Joyce.
I’m not justifying shit, I’m explaining what apparently does need to be explained because I constantly see people villainizing Dorothy for not having the same information as the audience does. As I *explicitly said,* Dorothy is in the wrong. That doesn’t mean her thought process isn’t rational.
So are the people you’re seeing villainizing Dorothy doing so specifically by saying she’s acting irrational? Because it seems entirely possible to me that people are already aware of the points you’re making (in part because they come up in the comments so often) and those points don’t change their overall judgment.
My thing is, nobody’s even villainising Dorothy in the first place. The worst “hate” she’s gotten is people mentioning how controlling she’s been about the Joeyce situation, and how it’s weird that she’s been seeking out Walky so intently. Ooh, what massive shade, y’know?
It is possible to both put yourself in a character’s shoes AS WELL AS read the text from a viewer perspective.
I don’t know about “justifying”, I’m just bored reading the exact same comment every single time Dorothy and Joe are so much as mentioned near each other.
She’s not a villain, but she’s acting on poorly considered attitudes about sex and personal agency. Joyce is an adult, she has the right to choose to have sex with someone if so motivated. Dorothy has been acting as Joyce’s protector for so long that she seems to have forgotten that she’s not her guardian. (Also, I get the feeling it’s the real reason she didn’t head for Yale. Just conjecture of course.)
As for Joe, can anyone give an example of Joe actually behaving like a “predator” towards a woman? There was his gross and stupid “do-list” that he very publicly apologized for (and even attempted a sort of reparations for). Otherwise, he’s actually been pretty consistent about respecting women’s boundaries, immediately backing off when asked to. It’s mostly his own fault that he’s garnered this aesthetic of being a hungry Tex Avery wolf, but his sexual history seems to just be a list of consenting, enthusiastic participants. Honestly, it was pretty dehumanizing when Dotty called them “faceless conquests”.
This keeps coming up, but Joe absolutely doesn’t “immediately back off when asked to”. With Sarah and Rachel both, he lingered around offering more sex-related comments and justifications for his continued presence. I’m not saying he’s evil for it (since some of the commenters here are fucking illiterate and hostile), but that does at least get pretty close to predatory.
He also wasn’t really upfront about his intentions when he asked Joyce out way back when. He mentioned to Danny that he chose her because she was sexually inexperienced and he could “break her in.”
He seemed clued in to their differences in expectations before she did, as well. He likely thought he could “persuade her” to see his side of things and they’d end up having sex. I definitely think he would have listened to a no, but it didn’t seem like he was making efforts to create an environment where it’d be more comfortable to give one.
(*And Joyce thought she could persuade him to accept Jesus as his savior, which also isn’t great, but Joyce has grown a lot from those days as well. (And Dorothy has seen Joyce’s growth.))
Yeah, that whole scenario was pretty much custom-built to make a “no” more difficult, both intentionally and un-.
The way they both talked about each other was really skin-crawly, no arguments there. I didn’t pick up anything deceptive though, he asked her out pretty rapidly, she agreed without a second thought, and then she brought a violent chaperone.
Welllll, he was acting pretty damn obnoxious to Rachel, yeah. That conversation was peak shitty-Joe. The tone of that strip didn’t strike me as being about predation so much as sexism at the time, but I get your point there. It seemed more like Rachel was trying to talk some sense into him (via Socratic questioning) rather than telling him to stop/leave.
As for Sarah, I think he said the word “ladies” in her general direction, got furiously chewed put, and swiftly communicated that he’d taken the hint. IDK, maybe that conversation read differently to me?
I also feel that while Joe is a relentlessly horny and pursuing his libido as a hobby, I’ve never seen any evidence that he’s a predator or a bad person.
Pursuing sex with a passion isn’t a crime, and it’s not even bad behaviour.
+1. Joe is offensively frank and has an extremely high threshold for the difference between flirting and pestering. He’s put people at some risk carelessly with the “do list” (and stopped when that risk was revealed). But he does take “no” for an answer, and I think it a bit much to see him pilloried for not always and forever assuming that “no” is the answer.
It is a hallmark of predation that the predator does not care what the prey’s answer is, or whether there is an answer. Predation asks no question.
To be clear, I’m not trying to decorate Joe with the “Not a Rapist” award, like it’s some special achievement. But the way he handled things that night with Liz actually showed him to be a better man than, well, a lot of guys you’d probably run into at college.
When she wanted to stop, he immediately confirmed stopping and asked no further questions. A lesser man would probably say something like “Why, what’s wrong?” while holding out hope that she might eventually get coaxed back into the mood.
I agree that he handled that well; see my comments on that strip should you be interested in my emotional reaction to it. But that was also Joe pretty deep into character growth to where he is now.
He was never a rapist, for sure. But at the start of the strip, could he have responded like the “lesser man” you described? It seems possible to me that he would have.
I agree, there is a difference… and Joe is thankfully not in the Predator category. His “no problem” reaction with Liz was a good example. He didn’t try to question it, or challenge her… or get upset. He just stopped.
Yes, there’s no award (nor should there be) for the bare minimum… but in a world where too many of us guys DON’T do that, we should be looking to that as a simple baseline.
Here’s hoping that saying that out loud will eventually lead to Dorothy realizing that the inverse happens to also be true
That said, Joyce can’t reveal her inner desires without fleeing up a tree, so maybe she’s not there yet
Going off topic a bit, we have so many iconic areas, I wonder when we’re getting the Unreal 5 developed DoA open world video game?
Acheev for finding Blowjob Cat.
Dorothy don’t do it
Don’t you fucking dare
Random thought — Joyce loses her faith, and becomes a better person.
Dorothy loses her faith, and becomes a worse person.
Her faith in what?
In her original goal of becoming President.
Her faith in her ability to do anything, go anywhere, and excel. Her stated goal was to be President, and once she let that go, she seems to have let go of everything. There are people who are only “good” because of the fear of the punishment of God. Dorothy was only “good” because a record of good behavior was important to her future. Now, there’s nothing to hold back bad behavior, so she seems to be descending into it. She will try to justify it, but it’s not the way should would have behaved back when she had faith in her own destiny.
Personally I think it would be good for her to let go of the insanely high moral standards she imposed on herself. She needs to make some mistakes and get hurt to grow as a person.
We don’t have any evidence that “Dorothy was only good because she wanted to keep a spotless record”. That is a bizarre claim.
I feel I’m starting to lose the plot. What’s up with Dotty?
Did you not see her breaking down after her encounter with Raidah?
The only thing keeping her going was her dream to become President. She let that go, and is spiraling because she doesn’t have anything else.
I’m remembering how she reacted when Becky got the campaign manager job, she seemed to suddenly realize that people can succeed in politics without the hard work she’s putting in. But I think she’s taken a while to reach the “what’s the point” level.
She broke up with Walky because he was in the way of her grand plan of becoming president. She’s ready to give up on that, and wants Walky back. She’s giving him not-entirely-in-good-faith relationship advice right now.
Damn, Dorothy with the truth bomb.