Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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May 28, 2026

Magazines

by David M Willis on October 30, 2023 at 12:01 am
  • 01 – Everybody's Looking for Nothing
└ Tags: dorothy, joyce

Discussion (337) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Doctor_Who
    Doctor_Who
    October 30, 2023 at 12:01 am | #

    Joyce: Look, I’m not saying you have to tell me, but lets just say in the hypothetical match-up between you and Joe, this could be an effective tie-breaker.

    • Sirksome
      Sirksome
      October 30, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

      Tie breaker? Please. They both know Dorothy clears easily.

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        October 30, 2023 at 8:08 am | #

        But the Maytag Repair Man remains king.

  2. NGPZ
    NGPZ
    October 30, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    Yeah I know Joyce don’t know any better, but I really REALLY hope Dorothy is thorough to her about this lest she get on the bad side of Carla or someone even less forgiving 👀

    • Doctor_Who
      Doctor_Who
      October 30, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      Joyce: Don’t worry, I’m way better about this stuff than I used to be. Watch, I’ll go say hi to Carla and won’t be weird or anything.

      (Joyce walks away. Beat panel. Joyce walks back with pie on her face.)

      Joyce: I may have been slightly weird. Or not, it’s hard to tell with Carla, this might just be “Hi”.

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        October 30, 2023 at 7:38 am | #

        Hey, no spoilers!

      • David DeLaney
        David DeLaney
        October 30, 2023 at 7:21 pm | #

        so Carla gave Dorothy a hi pie!

        –Dave, i’m sure English has used that as a euphemism at SOME point in the past. …right? . . . Google says several actual bakeries, including one in Hawaii, and various brands of pie. but NO euphemism? i am disappoint!

        ps: sorry, pushed ‘report’ when i wanted ‘reply’. bad Dave

    • Quirdry Tawks
      Quirdry Tawks
      October 30, 2023 at 2:30 am | #

      Carla will be far more upset at someone not knowing Who She Is.

    • GreyICE
      GreyICE
      October 30, 2023 at 3:58 am | #

      Carla assumes everyone else is a moron. I’m not sure she’d care. If anything she’d be annoyed that Joyce was paying attention to her because she’s trans, not because she’s awesome.

      • Xaeon
        Xaeon
        October 30, 2023 at 8:45 am | #

        Then again, not knowing means there was a point in time where Joyce was not paying attention to her at all.

        • Daniel M Ball
          Daniel M Ball
          October 30, 2023 at 1:34 pm | #

          or it could be that THE SUBJECT WASN’T IMPORTANT to Joyce until someone decided to make a big noise about the whole thing. Joyce doesn’t look (so far) at someone who presents like Carla and say to herself “Hey, I want to shag that person” because up to now, to JOYCE, Carla’s a girl, and thus, not in her sights as someone to shag, thus she’s not going to pay much, if any, attention to what’s between Carla’s legs…because she just doesn’t care. it’s not relevant in Joyce-Land…until some pundit or other starts making a big deal about it. (Which they do, and have, and continue to do.)

          This, is a mark of Carla’s success-someone like Joyce who has no other ulterior motives NEITHER NOTICES NOR CARES until someone makes a public stink that they really, have zero right to be making. (looking both at the noisy fundies, and the activists on that one, on both sides of the curtain or aisle.)

          Used to be, back in the dark, dark days of yore, that NOBODY GAVE A SHIT, it wasn’t important, it wasn’t some existential cultural struggle or platform for an election (with the nasty side of me thinking it’s more or less someone ashamed of their erection. The religious right is LOADED with barely disguised closet cases who need to chill the fuck out and stop projecting their own kinks on other people while denying them to their friends…who probably have the same kinks and are just as ashamed of it.)

          Carla successfully passes the “If you didn’t tell Me I wouldn’t Know or care” test-that is, the REAL LIFE test.

          That’s success. That’s successful. Presents as a woman (albeit one with some obnoxious tendencies) and treated as a woman, END POINT, that’s doing very well indeed.

          • GreyICE
            GreyICE
            October 30, 2023 at 10:15 pm | #

            Used to be back in the dark days of yore “that dirty liar tricked me into thinking ‘he’ was a woman” was enough to get you off of a murder charge. Used to be that a body meant the police shrugged, and didn’t care.

            Lets not romanticize the “dark days of yore” here.

            • it happens
              it happens
              October 30, 2023 at 10:53 pm | #

              Yeah especially because ‘yore’ was practically yesterday. It was only the last few years that some old guy murdered his neighbor and his entire defense was “I’m not gay”. Got six months in jail and 100 hours of community service. And this was in a very, very blue city.

          • GingerMadman
            GingerMadman
            November 1, 2023 at 2:32 am | #

            Your entire premise is incredible problematic here. Weather you intend to or not, you are pushing the idea that a transgender person HAS to transition and HAS to “Successfully Present” in order to be treated with respect. And that is false, and dangerous and potentially damaging to transgender people who don’t have the means or ability to transition.

  3. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    October 30, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    It was national news?

    • Dday
      Dday
      October 30, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

      Her family is pretty dang wealthy/powerful, coulda been something during tge timeskip

      • Otl1973
        Otl1973
        October 30, 2023 at 1:02 am | #

        To be honest, her family’s money and influence – and Carla’s clear abilities in science/engineering – make it seem unlikely to me that she’d actually be going to a state school rather than say MIT or Caltech.

        • Thag Simmons
          Thag Simmons
          October 30, 2023 at 2:05 am | #

          Carla does not seem like the type to want to go to a really fancy school. IU is local and maybe her parents went here.

        • Ophidiophile
          Ophidiophile
          October 30, 2023 at 2:36 am | #

          Too much competition. Carla will be nothing less than a Big Fish. Even if the pond isn’t the biggest.

        • GreyICE
          GreyICE
          October 30, 2023 at 4:00 am | #

          You assume her family is supportive. It feels like they’re nuveau riche – not connected enough to automatically get Ivy enrollments just for their name, and not willing to throw around the sums of money it takes to randomly get your kid enrolled in an Ivy. We also don’t know how Carla’s grades are – transitioning often has associated mental health issues that impact school performance, and just because she’s a great engineer doesn’t mean she has the 5.0 GPA and bevy of AP credits needed to support that.

          • Thag Simmons
            Thag Simmons
            October 30, 2023 at 5:24 am | #

            We know her family is supportive.

            We also know her family run a massive company that seemingly makes everything from phones to automobiles, which makes them absurdly rich. Like potentially more wealth than the rest of the main cast’s families put together, which given Jason, Jennifer and Asher is substantial.

            • jflb96
              jflb96
              October 30, 2023 at 10:12 am | #

              Yeah, but it’s money that they extracted themselves, so the connections are still lacking

            • GreyICE
              GreyICE
              October 30, 2023 at 10:09 pm | #

              Wealth is wealth, power is power. Wealth certainly can buy your way into it, but that’s to some extend gaudy. Ostentatious. Believe me, the old money thinks Elon Musk is just as much of a clown as the rest of us do.

              Sure, they’ll take his money, but you won’t find a general finding his kid a comfy seat in the air force reserve if there’s a draft, no one is going to show up to his kids failing oil business and give them a lucrative contract just because. The most he gets is the sort of transactional respect that someone like Putin might give him, and even then look how many favors that got him.

              Nuveau Riche. You can buy all the toys, but that’s not a seat in the club.

        • Bleuryder
          Bleuryder
          October 30, 2023 at 6:18 am | #

          Unless her being Trans had something to do with her not being in a school like that. Notice that she has her own dorm, it could be because of her parent’s money/influence or because the school is not risking anything.

        • Some Ed
          Some Ed
          October 30, 2023 at 10:30 am | #

          I knew plenty of people at school who should’ve been able to get into a “more prestigious” school, given their parents’ fame and influence. I did not go to a more prestigious school than IU. They were better in some areas and worse at others – yet some of the children of money I knew went to the school I did despite IU officially being better for their major. They never did it because the school I went to was in state and IU wasn’t.

          If I’m remembering correctly, one of them had their school chosen for them because it was their parent’s alma mater, and another because it was their parents’ alma mater.

          Many of them claimed it was because they had evaluated schools by a rigorous process they weren’t interested in disclosing which indicated our school was the best at actually teaching their major, regardless of what average starting salaries might claim. Some of them were actually supported in saying that our school was the best for their field, even if somewhere like Harvard would like people to believe otherwise.

        • BBCC
          BBCC
          October 30, 2023 at 1:33 pm | #

          There are lots of reasons besides money why someone might go to a state school instead. Maybe Carla’s a legacy or her parents donate a lot to this school so they wanted her to go there? Maybe it had better policies on things like dorm rooms for her? Maybe she wanted to be close to home in case of an emergency? Who knows?

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

      Yeah. We know Harrison cut his teeth taking down a major piece of anti-trans legislation, he knows Carla on a first name basis, his firm has a lot of her parent’s money and Carla assumes everyone already knows that she is trans.

      Which taken together implies a highly publicized court case around Carla’s transition.

      • DailyBrad
        DailyBrad
        October 30, 2023 at 12:17 am | #

        Yeah, which might also be why she has her own room as much as being trans, if she’s a character of notoriety.

      • Mark
        Mark
        October 30, 2023 at 6:40 am | #

        Don’t I recall a one-panel flashback to a Time cover story about her case, a couple of hundred strips ago?

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          October 30, 2023 at 8:35 am | #

          Newsweek actually, but yes. It’s been mentioned a few times.

          • Aimless Ranting
            Aimless Ranting
            October 30, 2023 at 10:42 am | #

            Yeah, main one I remember is during the fire alarm/kidnapping ploy. Someone said something about everyone being out, and she made a comment that she’s “been out since that cover of Newsweek.”

            • Thag Simmons
              Thag Simmons
              October 30, 2023 at 7:03 pm | #

              Yep

    • Doopyboop
      Doopyboop
      October 30, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

      Most likely due to her parents being quite rich and renowned, especially if her parents were… gasp, putting their funding into LGBT+ friendly bills and trying to fight for their daughter! Stop the presses!! We can’t have that in our CCCCHRISTIAN AMERICA.

    • CrazyJ
      CrazyJ
      October 30, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

      It was apparently a landmark court case for Trans-rights in the Dumbingverse, and Jacob’s brother was a lawyer for Carla’s side.

    • Regalli
      Regalli
      October 30, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

      As people brought up yesterday, she was on the cover of Newsweek when she came out. It’s almost certainly on Carla’s parents’ “personal life” section of Wikipedia, assuming Carla doesn’t have a page for herself. (Probably not, but hard to say.)

      Now, it’s POSSIBLE this was like, seven or eight years ago and no one in the dorm knows except the ones who’ve indicated they DEFINITELY do (Dorothy, Sal, Mary, Ruth), but given things like Carla saying drawing a dick on her whiteboard was a hate crime before realizing everyone else had them (and it was therefore hilarious,) she definitely ACTS like her default assumption is “people know/probably know.”

      • Rabid Rabbit
        Rabid Rabbit
        October 30, 2023 at 1:06 am | #

        Do you really think Carla hasn’t set herself up a thoroughly credible alternate personality just so she could create a Wikipedia page about herself without being caught?

        • Quirdry Tawks
          Quirdry Tawks
          October 30, 2023 at 2:33 am | #

          “This entry reads like an advertisement…“

          • Stanistani
            Stanistani
            October 30, 2023 at 7:02 am | #

            Ah, someone knows the COI stuff at W*ikipedia. It’s possible you’ve even trawled the W*ikipediocracy forums.

            • Quirdry Tawks
              Quirdry Tawks
              October 30, 2023 at 9:19 pm | #

              Only enough to ensure I’m still Certified Non-notable.

              whew. Dodged a bullet there.

        • Regalli
          Regalli
          October 30, 2023 at 5:42 pm | #

          I mean, yeah, that is definitely a distinct possibility. It’s also possible she had one without having to intervene just from the Newsweek/court case/kid of tech billionaires stuff combined. (At the very least, I’d be certain the court case has a page in its own right.)

          It’s also possible Carla’s waiting until she’s patented her first major innovation in pie-throwing technology to start working on that. You know, so she can say she’s thoroughly earned it.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        October 30, 2023 at 8:48 am | #

        When she runs into Harrison in the elevator, he says something like “didn’t you use to be just this tall”, which suggests it was quite awhile back.

        I’d say her assumption is probably more “people could know” and when there’s something like the whiteboard dingdong it’s an obvious assumption that whoever drew it knew.
        She also almost never brings it up on her own. For all the “pay attention to me” shtick, being trans isn’t something she uses that way. Anyone might know, but she’s just as happy if they don’t.

        • milu
          milu
          October 30, 2023 at 9:19 am | #

          she was also pretty vocal about it in that first gender studies class as i recall.

          • thejeff
            thejeff
            October 30, 2023 at 12:29 pm | #

            She said she’s already mastered gender, which is a strong hint, but never actually comes out and says she’s trans.

            Since the topic at hand was gender more generally, that could easily be taken like Roz early in the first semester class.

            • milu
              milu
              October 30, 2023 at 4:20 pm | #

              ah right, i only remembered the subtext, not the text =)

        • BBCC
          BBCC
          October 30, 2023 at 1:35 pm | #

          The “this tall” was like a head shorter than she currently is. That indicates that at most it was before her last growth spurt. She’s 19 so that was like….what four or five years ago? That’s hardly ‘quite a while back’ or so far back the others wouldn’t remember seeing it everywhere for a while.

          Honestly, I’m kinda surprised Joyce doesn’t know. It seems like the kind of thing her parents would want to protest.

        • David DeLaney
          David DeLaney
          October 30, 2023 at 7:27 pm | #

          It’s already been brought up that it seems fairly clear one large reason for her “Annoy All Indiscriminately / Pay Attention To MEEEE” schtick, at least in this setting where she’s never been Ultracar at all, is to focus folks’ attention ON something other than her being trans. most folks only have so much attention to spare, after all.

          –Dave, it’s related to Dina giving Ethan her hat at the LGBTQIA+ meeting, so people had something else to focus on about him, which calmed his neuroses.

      • TerribleTransit
        TerribleTransit
        October 30, 2023 at 1:27 pm | #

        Carla 100% has her own page. Relatives of famous people would be likely enough to have at least a stub even if they’re otherwise not notable. The presumed subject of a prominent legal battle would certainly have one. And I’m pretty sure someone would warrant a blurb just for appearing on Newsweek even if they’d never done anything else of note. There’s absolutely no way Carla doesn’t have a page.

    • Freemage
      Freemage
      October 30, 2023 at 4:08 am | #

      Honestly, is it ‘outing’ someone if they’ve been on the cover of Newsweek? There comes a point when the person is out, and that’s got to be the situation here. Joyce could easily find out Carla’s identity just from that tidbit alone, really, so Dorothy is not really accomplishing much here by refusing to tell the one girl on the wing who doesn’t know about Carla.

      • morleuca
        morleuca
        October 30, 2023 at 5:16 am | #

        If someone isn’t aware, then yes, telling them would be outing the individual in question.

        • lyzyrdwyzyrd
          lyzyrdwyzyrd
          October 30, 2023 at 6:33 am | #

          I think there’s a fuzzy point where it becomes acceptable .
          Like, for instance Stephen Fry, Elton John, Chaz Bono.
          But even people who have that sort of stuff in their profile on social media, or have pride flags or stickers, atleast to me. I’m bi, I have a little sticker on my name badge at work.

          If the person in question is ‘out’ then imo they’re ‘out’ and you can’t ‘out’ someone who isp ublicly ‘out’. Like, at a certain point pretending that someone isn’t queer and out is erasure.

          Dorothy isn’t saying ‘I won’t out her to you’ she’s saying ‘I won’t out her to you if you’re going to be weird about it’. Dorothy is just being polite so Joyce doesn’t pester Carla.

      • Some Ed
        Some Ed
        October 30, 2023 at 10:42 am | #

        “There’s always at least one.¨

        This implies that, if Dorothy *did* tell Joyce, either it would slide off of Joyce’s brain like water off a teflon-coated windshield, or there’s someone else on the floor who doesn’t know. By not pushing, Dorothy’s leaving room for the more comfortable third option that Joyce just wasn’t paying attention.

      • Regret
        Regret
        October 30, 2023 at 6:19 pm | #

        Yes. This isn’t hard. A secret is a thing someone doesn’t know yet. Someone doesn’t know yet, therefore it is a secret.

    • Chubsius
      Chubsius
      October 30, 2023 at 8:18 am | #

      Sadly, Musk’s trans daughter is news, so why not fictional tech billionaires?

  4. brute
    brute
    October 30, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    secret weenus: band name i called it

    • bibulb
      bibulb
      October 30, 2023 at 12:32 am | #

      “Does She Have a Secret Weenus: A Dumbing of Age Collection”

    • Bogeywoman
      Bogeywoman
      October 30, 2023 at 12:47 am | #

      Now I want to write the song, secret weenus. Has to be folk punk.
      “DOES SHE HAVE A SECRET WEENUS/it’s no secret she has two/she shakes em both all over town/when she dances the boogaloo” (weenus is the skin on people’s elbows)

      • Pergola
        Pergola
        October 30, 2023 at 12:05 pm | #

        wanna keep your weenus secret/gonna be hard to bend your arm

      • David DeLaney
        David DeLaney
        October 30, 2023 at 7:31 pm | #

        a relevant song by Uncle Bonsai, to play on the hacked elevator music outside of normal business hours

        –Dave, because the lyrics are NSFW, and in fact were partly the subject of a Supreme Court case

    • Dday
      Dday
      October 30, 2023 at 6:17 pm | #

      They later changed their name to Weezer

  5. Mr. Random
    Mr. Random
    October 30, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    I think Carla might know.
    Her parents have a big fortune, so she can probably get a private investigator

    Sincerely didn’t even think of that entendre until JUST now.

  6. Ty34er
    Ty34er
    October 30, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    I was about to ask why Carla would be national news, but then I remembered one of Brad Pitt’s kids was in the news for that so fair enough I guess

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

      We also know that she’s on a first name basis with a lawyer who made his name striking down a major piece of anti-trans legislation and who her parents employed.

      • Regalli
        Regalli
        October 30, 2023 at 12:10 am | #

        Yeah, between “kid of high-profile tech magnates” (consider Elon Musk’s son’s name making the news, or his daughter’s name change to tell him to go fuck himself while also updating her name because she’s trans, or yeah, John Jolie-Pitt,) and the clear implications the Ruttens were involved with Harrison’s big case involving trans rights, it makes a lot of sense.

  7. Doopyboop
    Doopyboop
    October 30, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

    Also, good call Dorothy I respect it.

  8. Coatl
    Coatl
    October 30, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

    Seriously Brown?

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      Are you surprised? I know she’s come a long way but I never thought the ‘Joyce learns about trans people’ character development would happen offscreen.

      • Coatl
        Coatl
        October 30, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

        I meant that she suspects Dorothy

        • Coatl
          Coatl
          October 30, 2023 at 12:16 am | #

          but yes, I know the characters have a lot to learn, but some…well, they are a challenge.

        • DailyBrad
          DailyBrad
          October 30, 2023 at 1:15 am | #

          I actually sort of find it *less* offensive that she entertained the possibility, versus a “we can always tell” overconfidence in “clocking” that transphobes often have.

          Joyce seems to be out of her depth rather than paranoid or hateful.

        • Xaeon
          Xaeon
          October 30, 2023 at 8:50 am | #

          Is it suspicion or hopefulness?

      • Ray
        Ray
        October 30, 2023 at 12:42 am | #

        Agree on this.

        • Ray
          Ray
          October 30, 2023 at 12:42 am | #

          I was trying to reply to Thag but life happens.

    • Ophidiophile
      Ophidiophile
      October 30, 2023 at 2:53 am | #

      Well, that would explain Joyce’s attraction to Dorothy.

      • LiterallyJustSomeGuy
        LiterallyJustSomeGuy
        October 30, 2023 at 9:32 am | #

        …What? No. Ew. Not cool.

      • Seralyna
        Seralyna
        October 30, 2023 at 12:20 pm | #

        fuck off with that

      • S.R.
        S.R.
        October 30, 2023 at 2:16 pm | #

        …or maybe it’s just that people’s attraction to others is generally based on their gender, not their hypothetical chromosomes? Don’t be gross.

        • Regret
          Regret
          October 30, 2023 at 6:24 pm | #

          More like fenotype, i.e. looks. Which has only a weak correlation with gender. And gender only has a strong (nowhere near perfect) correlation with genitals. Nobody mentioned chromosomes, let’s not stretch this hypothetical too far, they’re note relevant.

      • Mturtle7
        Mturtle7
        October 31, 2023 at 9:27 pm | #

        This is exactly the kind of rationalization Joyce would tell herself, yes! …The reactions of commenters above may have subtly hinted to you already that this is not actually a good rational thing to think, though.

  9. Puppeteer Nessus
    Puppeteer Nessus
    October 30, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

    These two ain’t making out hardly at all

    • clif
      clif
      October 30, 2023 at 2:35 am | #

      They’re already discussing who has the week’s. What do you want?

      • clif
        clif
        October 30, 2023 at 2:38 am | #

        *has the weenus

        Curse you autocorrect.

  10. shadowcell
    shadowcell
    October 30, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

    Joyce Brown and the Tale of the Secret Weenus

    • David DeLaney
      David DeLaney
      October 30, 2023 at 7:33 pm | #

      a children’s novel

      –Dave, in the Hardy Drew and the Nancy Boys series

  11. not someone else
    not someone else
    October 30, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

    Joyce. Joyce sweetie.

    This is “you can’t just ask people why they’re white” levels of holy god what. Please tone it down just a notch or two. Thank you. Love you. Oh my fuck.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:48 am | #

      only reason anyone should ever know/ask is if they’re already in a relationship and discuss it before being intimate lol

      Tho i can imagine joyce also considering herself an ‘above the waist’ lesbian if she was more into girls/admitted she liked dorothy or anyone else
      https://www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-chaser-537

      • PirateTawnee
        PirateTawnee
        October 30, 2023 at 12:53 am | #

        Wow, I remember the “oof” when I read that, and also the sudden realisation that someone I was very good friends with was a bit too Hazel-coded for me to want to be friends with them anymore.

      • sdrainbow
        sdrainbow
        October 30, 2023 at 1:04 am | #

        oh no, you can’t link girls with slingshots and force me to confront my previous bad ideas

        that needs to stay back in the rose colored nostalgic past where it belongs

        • Angel
          Angel
          October 30, 2023 at 1:59 am | #

          her free chapters of Elephant Town seem pretty good for what they are so far

        • Needfuldoer
          Needfuldoer
          October 30, 2023 at 8:26 am | #

          It’s in its second round of reruns!

      • Tesset
        Tesset
        October 30, 2023 at 1:44 pm | #

        Honestly, Joyce said something v similar about Becky back when she first came out. Luckily less transphobic, 7 years of progress on trans stuff (and a slightly different setting/tone) helped a lot there.

    • Meagan
      Meagan
      October 30, 2023 at 12:53 am | #

      If you think Joyce’s reaction is that shocking given her upbringing and lack of exposure to any positive or normalizing messages about trans people (until one class last semester), you have led a very sheltered life.

      • Taffy
        Taffy
        October 30, 2023 at 1:10 am | #

        Yeah, this is like ground-level stuff. She’s doing sort of okayish, all things considered.

      • not someone else
        not someone else
        October 30, 2023 at 1:27 am | #

        I find Joyce’s reaction that shocking because I’m trans, not because I didn’t grow up with people about a hundred times worse than this.

        It doesn’t have to be abnormal to be bullshit.

        • Nono
          Nono
          October 30, 2023 at 9:38 am | #

          Yeah that’s like the same level of ‘oh look it was a different time’.

          So yeah, we get it, doesn’t mean we’re not tired of seeing baby’s first reaction to trans/gay/minority race people for the 100th time.

          What’s novel to someone is yet another Tuesday for another.

          • Seralyna
            Seralyna
            October 30, 2023 at 12:24 pm | #

            yeah, i can’t fault it’s inclusion, considering it’s pretty on tone with a lot of other stuff, but it still isn’t Fun to read

        • Regret
          Regret
          October 30, 2023 at 6:28 pm | #

          Then you’re using the word “shocking” in a different sense than everyone else here. Everyone else is talking about how it is not unexpected, yet you want to talk about how it is bullshit. That’s fine, but phrase it as a new subject (because it is), don’t do the typical internet comment thing where we think that the only valid response is a rebuttal.

    • Otl1973
      Otl1973
      October 30, 2023 at 1:06 am | #

      It appears Willis is sometimes a fan of cringe humor.

  12. Leorale
    Leorale
    October 30, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

    Dorothy is handling this really well in fact.

    • vulcanodon
      vulcanodon
      October 30, 2023 at 9:15 am | #

      She probably watched a dozen TED talks on it

  13. Suet
    Suet
    October 30, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

    Not all national news are widespread. If you missed that news cycle, you REALLY missed it

    The only time Dorothy becomes national news is if she becomes presi–

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 12:19 am | #

      Wasn’t the Blaine incident national news? Like it probably didn’t linger in the common consciousness for long but a kidnapping with three fatalities involving two people in comic book costumes and a congressional campaign manager would at least be a novelty.

      • Mark
        Mark
        October 30, 2023 at 6:54 am | #

        I’m guessing that Blaine’s business associates pulled a few strings to damp it down, as it might splash on them if people got too curious.

        • Vegetalss4
          Vegetalss4
          October 30, 2023 at 10:43 am | #

          I’d find that difficult to believe.

          Robin, an sitting congresswoman, publicly cited the incident (and the need to let Becky as her campaign manager rest and heal) as the reason she conceded the congressional race for reelection 2 weeks before the actual vote.
          (back in 2nd of september, 2020 real time)

          If Ashers grand dad could stop such things from coming up in national news they’d be the illuminati not just a crime syndicate.

          It’d probably end pretty soon since there wouldn’t be any new developments to continue reporting on after she withdrew.

      • BBCC
        BBCC
        October 30, 2023 at 1:38 pm | #

        I dunno if they ever explicitly stated it was national news but it’s hard to believe it wasn’t. It definitely made at least state news.

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      October 30, 2023 at 12:27 am | #

      We can also assume that a teenager who (at the time) wanted to become president would follow national news very closely — especially compared to one who was purposely raised to be ignorant innocent.

      The Keeners might leave newspapers around, or keep it playing in the background, or straight-up buy Dorothy a Newsweek subscription to encourage her interests. The Browns probably discouraged Joyce from news: any time she tried to ask about it, she’d be met with a screed about how it was all religiously bad and corrupt and sinful, she wouldn’t get an unvarnished or appealing answer.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:50 am | #

      i’d imagine unless it was important or if they felt ‘attacked’ by it specifically like ‘hurting christian values’ it’s not something they would’ve focused on if joyce was prepping for college and other sibling s tuff (after all if it was that big of news, but they were still ok with letting joyce go to a non christian college b/c her parents went, but i don’t think joyce would’ve rly remembered it among all the other stuff teh news covers with teh 24 hour news cycles and stuff)

    • Ophidiophile
      Ophidiophile
      October 30, 2023 at 2:57 am | #

      Joyce’s exposure to the outside world was heavily censored by her parents and church. Alternate expressions of sexuality weren’t covered in Veggie Tales, and she was taught to self-censor what she learned outside of home.

      • Quirdry Tawks
        Quirdry Tawks
        October 30, 2023 at 3:12 am | #

        Not even alternative expressions of sexuality involving the use of a Veggie Tales character? 😀

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          October 30, 2023 at 3:19 am | #

          Leave Jimmy Gourd out of this.

    • Mark
      Mark
      October 30, 2023 at 6:51 am | #

      Unless it’s one of those stories that are pre-reported for weeks before anything actually happens, and then resurrected every few days for months after it’s all happened because they miss the sales boost, and dusted off annually to ask “whatever happened to…” and endlessly referenced as a warning about imaginary dangers….

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      October 30, 2023 at 8:30 am | #

      Joyce was also very sheltered by Carol. She wouldn’t have been exposed to Carla’s story unless it was brought up as an example of “horrible parents and irresponsible doctors [redacted, use your imagination]”. Even then, she may not realize the Carla in the story is her neighbor Carla. (Assuming the adults driving her conversation don’t deadname her the entire time, or worse.)

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        October 30, 2023 at 8:55 am | #

        Yeah, it wouldn’t have surprised me if she had heard of it, in the context of bigoted church sermon or anti-trans protest or something.

  14. RassilonTDavros
    RassilonTDavros
    October 30, 2023 at 12:09 am | #

    I’m kind of amazed, honestly. You’d think whatever batshit right-wing propaganda outlet the Browns got their “news” from would have had a field day wringing hatemongering out of Carla coming out.

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

      There’s a possibility the Browns never used the name “Carla”

      • RassilonTDavros
        RassilonTDavros
        October 30, 2023 at 12:15 am | #

        True. Even if her parents demonized “[Insert-deadname-here] Rutten,” she probably wouldn’t have put two and two together unless she’d realized Carla was trans from the start.

    • General Tekno
      General Tekno
      October 30, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

      Given the Browns, they probably preferred to keep their kids sheltered from “the trans agenda” entirely.

    • tim gueguen
      tim gueguen
      October 30, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

      Hard to say. Maybe the Browns censored stuff like that from their kids. Although I have a hard time imagining John wouldn’t flap his mouth about it.

    • Chris Phoenix
      Chris Phoenix
      October 30, 2023 at 12:15 am | #

      Carla wouldn’t make good propaganda for the right wing – she’s happy and successful. I think Carla was right that Mary was all bent out of shape at Carla’s mere existence.

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        October 30, 2023 at 8:36 am | #

        Conservative Outrage du jour is an easy recipe, just throw buzzwords into a blender.

        “They’re rich liberal tech parents indoctrinating their child into thinking all of this is okay and paying off doctors to [I’m not going there] to them and call it ‘tReAtMeNt’ !!!1!1!”

        • milu
          milu
          October 30, 2023 at 9:16 am | #

          vomit vomit vomit GrOoMeRs vomit fart!

      • Ben
        Ben
        October 30, 2023 at 11:52 pm | #

        Someone showing Carla’s level of obnoxious attention-seeking and total lack of empathy is HAPPY? Who’s getting wierd and delusional NOW?

    • Sirksome
      Sirksome
      October 30, 2023 at 12:24 am | #

      I feel like just because it’s “national news” doesn’t mean everyone would be aware of it especially since Joyce would be a child at the time this news circulated, so unless Carla’s life has had continued publicity related to her transition for years it’s very possible, almost expected most people around her age would be oblivious unless they were already familiar with her name.

      • TulipKitten
        TulipKitten
        October 30, 2023 at 11:01 am | #

        Or even a teenager. Her parents didn’t allow her to watch mainstream cartoons since they were a gateway to “Eastern religion”. I don’t know their position on Fox News, though.

    • Otl1973
      Otl1973
      October 30, 2023 at 1:17 am | #

      Or maybe having Joyce ignorant of this just works better for the story Willis wants to tell. There doesn’t have to be a “real” reason.

      • Mark
        Mark
        October 30, 2023 at 7:00 am | #

        There has to be a reason that’s real inside the story or there’s no story, just a lecture.

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          October 30, 2023 at 9:00 am | #

          True, but there’s plenty of room to go either way here. It’s perfectly reasonable if Joyce doesn’t know about Carla but Dorothy does, so it doesn’t really need to be brought up explicitly within the story.

  15. BBCC
    BBCC
    October 30, 2023 at 12:09 am | #

    Oh yeah, no, if she’s gonna be weird about it she can google it herself. Don’t tell her if she’s a weirdo.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:56 am | #

      inb4 she doesn’t have the foresight to specifically search about indiana and google searches “college trans girls” lol

      • TulipKitten
        TulipKitten
        October 30, 2023 at 3:27 am | #

        … Then Joyce discovers a new side of herself.

  16. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    October 30, 2023 at 12:09 am | #

    Secret weenus, a private dick if you will.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      October 30, 2023 at 1:46 am | #

      An Irish monk?

  17. Alongcameaspider
    Alongcameaspider
    October 30, 2023 at 12:11 am | #

    I hope Dorothy helps Joyce deprogram any harmful ideas about trans people she might still have before she runs around her floor being weird about this

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:58 am | #

      Given how loudly becky’s been about her orientation (not that orientation and gender is the same but at least joyce has a bit of exposure to the lgbt community), hopefully it’d be fine since the existing trans ppl in the comic have been pretty chill about their identity (well carla is quite boisterous personality wise but she doesn’t yell ‘i’m trans deal with it!’ versus her overall ‘i’m perfect and you should worship me’)

    • Rabid Rabbit
      Rabid Rabbit
      October 30, 2023 at 1:10 am | #

      When she met Booster, Joyce was advanced enough to go “Okay, this is one of these things that gets me into trouble, I’m going to say nothing and research it later on my own.” That honestly puts her well ahead of a lot of people.

      • Angel
        Angel
        October 30, 2023 at 1:55 am | #

        Booster is nonbinary/masc presenting right? even if nbs fall under the ‘trans umbrella’, idk if sarah had the knowledge to explain it to her since it might be complicated/nuanced enough to be its own thing like also gender fluidity and all that

        • TulipKitten
          TulipKitten
          October 30, 2023 at 11:05 am | #

          Sarah is also terrible at explaining things. She doesn’t have the patience or tactfulness to do so in a way that helps Joyce in the moment.

      • vulcanodon
        vulcanodon
        October 30, 2023 at 9:19 am | #

        Well… after she said “Does he know he’s wearing girl makeup?”

  18. Bo
    Bo
    October 30, 2023 at 12:18 am | #

    i keep my weenus stored in a briefcase for ‘Secret Anti-Government Services’

  19. HueSatLight
    HueSatLight
    October 30, 2023 at 12:20 am | #

    Really nailing not being weird about it.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:58 am | #

      i mean, by joyce standards it could’ve been way worse if she was still pre-becky revelation

  20. C.T. Phipps
    C.T. Phipps
    October 30, 2023 at 12:20 am | #

    There went my theory that Joyce knew Carla was trans but didn’t know what trans the word meant.

  21. Jonathan
    Jonathan
    October 30, 2023 at 12:22 am | #

    Dorothy, why did you, within the span of 30 seconds, say “You do know, right?” and “I’m not going to tell you.” There was no Joyce being weird in between those two statements. That’s… out of touch for you. Also, how are you worried about outing them, if it was on national news -__-

    • Sirksome
      Sirksome
      October 30, 2023 at 12:30 am | #

      It’s still personal information. Even if it’s public it’s not Dorothy’s right to out Carla to someone who doesn’t know. Maybe Carla would prefer people not knowing even if she expects them to. Passing can be very important and empowering.

      • Leorale
        Leorale
        October 30, 2023 at 12:40 am | #

        Dorothy is surprised that Joyce doesn’t already know, but that doesn’t mean Dorothy wants to tell her. Those are two separate things.

        And it’s probably best not to share this info with anyone who is ignorant of how any of this works, a la “transes all the way”.

      • Mark
        Mark
        October 30, 2023 at 7:08 am | #

        I think the confusion centers on “how can one be outed when one is already out?” It needs a different word. Which word, I don’t know. But “revealed generally” and “revealed to one person who hadn’t got the word yet” are situations different enough that using the same word for both will leave some people puzzled.

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      October 30, 2023 at 12:33 am | #

      The effort you’re going to to make Dorothy the bad guy here is kinda impressive.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:59 am | #

      well, they prolly do need to talk a bit more after just being “well, it’s carla” and joyce zooming off to pester carla a bout personal questions

    • Tan
      Tan
      October 30, 2023 at 2:44 am | #

      Aside from what others have already said: There are such things as body language, facial expressions, and tone. Joyce absolutely spent those 30 seconds being weird about it.

      • Jonathan
        Jonathan
        October 30, 2023 at 7:51 pm | #

        LOL no, you’re absolutely right. I had initially considered writing “There was no Joyce being weird[er than baseline Joyce]” which would have been more accurate ^_^. But Dorothy knows Joyce and decided to bring it up anyway. This is a perfectly normal reaction for Joyce to just about anything outside the bubble of her Fundie childhood worldview.

    • Tan
      Tan
      October 30, 2023 at 2:51 am | #

      Also Carla’s pronouns are explicitly she/her, not they/them. If you are referring to her as “them” because her transness was brought up… Don’t do that.

      • Jonathan
        Jonathan
        October 30, 2023 at 7:47 pm | #

        Thanks, I wasn’t (and for my own part, taking issue with my language should not hinge on ill intent — I prefer to presume people in this community, like Joyce here, are well intentioned). That said, I do frequently use they/them, if I simply don’t wish to emphasize someone’s gender or don’t consider gender relevant to the conversation, which, just like someone’s anatomy, it just about never is. Using they/them as a gender-agnostic singular is both valid and extremely common, even in reference to people with she/her/he/him pronouns.

    • BBCC
      BBCC
      October 30, 2023 at 1:43 pm | #

      Telling someone you won’t tell them about it if they’re weird can be a forewarning instead of a reaction to them being weird. Given Joyce immediately proceeded to act like a weirdo, it was clearly merited.

  22. Dday
    Dday
    October 30, 2023 at 12:26 am | #

    Cue the fanart

    • Dday
      Dday
      October 30, 2023 at 1:55 pm | #

      Oh FINE I’ll do it myself.
      (vaguely) suggestive: https://i.imgur.com/JPHkJTM.jpg
      Sorry for scratching it out on a napkin, what can ya do

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 7:58 pm | #

        Ahahahaha 😙👌

        • Dday
          Dday
          October 30, 2023 at 10:16 pm | #

          Hey thanks, I’ll be here all week

  23. Just an Armadillo
    Just an Armadillo
    October 30, 2023 at 12:30 am | #

    Ugh, I really thought Joyce was grown enough to not pull this shit, but I guess every new experience along these lines is still just a hard reset on her bad behavior. At this rate she’s going to start staring at Carla like she’s some kind of zoo animal if she finds out.

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 12:53 am | #

      carla would def keep her at an arms length if she tried anything but i imagine she’d respect boundaries and not try to check out out in like the shower room or so versus dorothy where she’s been more comfortable enough to have ‘laundry room time’ with, so i assume she’s not ‘holding herself back’ on questions and such so to speak

      But at least dorothy’s prepping her about it a bit. wonder if booster will join in or if they’d roll their eyes about it lol (tho i can imagine they’d focus more on charlie rn)

    • Mark
      Mark
      October 30, 2023 at 7:13 am | #

      Joyce has spent 18 years learning how to behave in one culture, and now she’s effectively a foreigner who’s lived a few months in another culture. Behavior takes a long time to learn and longer to un-learn. Indeed, even within a single culture one spends one’s whole life learning it, because ethos changes over time.

    • Nono
      Nono
      October 30, 2023 at 9:40 am | #

      Really bodes well for if Jocelyne ever comes out to her, huh.

      Not that she won’t do well EVENTUALLY, but yeah.

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        October 30, 2023 at 12:34 pm | #

        Unless she comes out in front of Carol, in which case Joyce will instantly switch to “I will fight for my sister!”

        To be honest, I’m a little surprised narratively this seems to be happening now. I’d figured it would work better for her first direct confrontation with a trans person to be Jocelyn. Raise the dramatic stakes.

        • BBCC
          BBCC
          October 30, 2023 at 1:46 pm | #

          Joyce’s pattern so far has been for her first experience with a group to be bad and improve later, usually with the second person being someone she cares more about (like Ethan and then Becky).

        • Jamie
          Jamie
          October 30, 2023 at 3:34 pm | #

          Nah, foreshadowing exists for a reason.

  24. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    October 30, 2023 at 12:30 am | #

    It’s only a secret if you don’t look at her elbows.

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      October 30, 2023 at 11:32 pm | #

      Pika?

  25. AbacusWizard
    AbacusWizard
    October 30, 2023 at 12:33 am | #

    Dumbing of Age, Book 17: A Secret Weenus

  26. Mym
    Mym
    October 30, 2023 at 12:34 am | #

    Joyce, I stg. You are getting on Lucy levels of annoying today

    • Coatl
      Coatl
      October 30, 2023 at 1:45 am | #

      I’ve always thought that Lucy is a “Joyce without trauma”, but with the recent “subtlety” she received from Linda, anything can happen.

      • Mym
        Mym
        October 30, 2023 at 2:52 pm | #

        Hoping Lucy drop kicks Linda and becomes more likeable, but I’m not holding my breath

    • PedanticJerkass
      PedanticJerkass
      October 30, 2023 at 11:55 am | #

      So… not really all that annoying at all, then?

      • Mym
        Mym
        October 30, 2023 at 2:51 pm | #

        The most annoying. I hate Lucy

  27. Chris Phoenix
    Chris Phoenix
    October 30, 2023 at 12:36 am | #

    I have three trans people among my close relatives and I actively support all of them.

    And… I wish Dorothy had
    1) given Joyce some credit for correcting her mother’s language;
    2) said “I won’t tell you who yet” in a much less judgey way.

    Anyone who has no experience with something is going to be “weird” about it at first. It’s not like people instinctively know exactly how to act in a new situation – especially when the initial set of questions is likely to get a response of “You’re not fit company, go away and shut up, you’re a bad person.”

    Like, Dorothy could have said “Joyce, if I tell you now who it is, you’ll probably run and pester her, and she doesn’t need that. She’s just some girl, except she also gets lots of shit for being trans. So let’s you and me talk until you’ve taken the edge off your incredulity.”

    If anyone here reads The Daily Grind, every few chapters there’s a scene where the protagonist is like “Hey random person I’ve never met, here’s an alien species you didn’t even know existed. If you don’t instantly start treating them like an ordinary person, then you’re a racist and you deserve nothing but snarky contempt from me.” This does not make the world better in any way.

    So, like, maybe we could have just a bit of compassion for Joyce here? She’s far from perfect, and she should probably grow before she tries to be friends with a person she knows is trans, but she’s doing her best in the right direction, which is pretty darn good considering the upbringing she had.

    • Leorale
      Leorale
      October 30, 2023 at 12:48 am | #

      That’s all true. But Dorothy isn’t a teacher, she doesn’t have to be flawlessly gentle and patient and judgment-free with her friend. She’s just having an honest reaction.

      Joyce ignorantly said something wack, Dorothy reacted like it was wack. Joyce wasn’t even hurt by this reaction. It’s OK.

      • Coatl
        Coatl
        October 30, 2023 at 12:52 am | #

        And besides, she knows that Joyce is capable of doing something she shouldn’t.

    • Jay
      Jay
      October 30, 2023 at 12:53 am | #

      The Daily Grind’s non-human persons are all traumatised refugees from hellholes that use them as murderfodder. (Like trans people in America, I guess.)

      Nobody is demanding you forget that they: have acid spit, or can freeze you in time by looking at you, or are always That Friend You Forgot – but it shouldn’t take supernatural empathy (or a James) to not automatically other them and poke at the trauma?

      • Chris Phoenix
        Chris Phoenix
        October 30, 2023 at 1:33 am | #

        “They’re people?” The first kid asked.

        “Yup.”

        “Like… people people?”

        “I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.” James admitted bluntly. “But it sounds pretty bad when you say it that way.”

        Just that fast. Just that unforgiving. This was far from the only time James reacted this way.

        “Yes, the things that look exactly like robot drones are people. And if you dare question their degree of personhood, even reflexively (less than thirty seconds after first learning that literal magic exists and such a thing is even theoretically possible), then I’ll tell you that you sound really bad to me.”

        To my eye, James has less empathy than some of the human people he’s being borderline abusive to. He’s in a position of power (the quote is from a job interview where he explictly tells the candidates “You have no good options other than to work for me”) and he’s using it to verbally beat people up for being morally deficient.

        (The above quote is from Chapter 220.)

        • not someone else
          not someone else
          October 30, 2023 at 2:04 am | #

          Yup, suggesting someone not ask rude questions is basically violent abuse, and there’s no polite way to do it.

          I’m sure you’re just absolutely the most beautiful compassionate soul that ever lived and we’re all missing out, but tbqh you sound exhausting.

          • Taffy
            Taffy
            October 30, 2023 at 2:30 am | #

            What’s exhausting is how fucking stupid you’re pretending to be in this comment.

            • Throwatron
              Throwatron
              October 30, 2023 at 2:52 am | #

              Yeah I literally can’t even figure out what provoked that response in the first place

            • not someone else
              not someone else
              October 30, 2023 at 3:23 am | #

              Look, I don’t know all the context of whatever piece of fiction is being referenced here. Maybe the person I’m replying to is calling some other thing “borderline abusive” and “verbally beat[ing] people up for being morally deficient”. I’m not exactly a fan of making up some scenario about robot clone shit and acting like forcing people to adjust to wacky magical hijinks is commentary on real life bigotry or whatever, if that’s what the comic/story/thing is doing.

              But I’m not “pretending” to think that it seems like a “verbal beatdown” reading really, really hard into the line as presented, as well as stating Dorothy’s “it’s none of your business and you’re being weird” is lacking in compassion for Joyce. It’s really not that hard to take a second to think: oh hold on, you’re right, there is literally no scenario in which asking what some random acquaintance’s junk is polite, sorry, my b, let’s move on. Hell, Joyce is doing that.

              • not someone else
                not someone else
                October 30, 2023 at 3:31 am | #

                Cripes-

                *like a”verbal beatdown” IS reading

                *what some random acquaintance’s junk LOOKS LIKE is polite

                Look, whatever, maybe I’m an asshole for thinking having empathy for Carla is a bit bigger of a deal, or maybe none of that has shit to do with anything that was said and I’m hallucinating an entire conversation. I’m gonna go to sleep. Y’all have fun.

                • The Oracle
                  The Oracle
                  October 30, 2023 at 3:46 am | #

                  The second thing, yes. Everything between “or maybe” and “I’m”.

              • Taffy
                Taffy
                October 30, 2023 at 3:40 am | #

                Your reading of Chris Phoenix’s comment is barely coherent and reads like you took random words from different parts and combined them into something only a little bit related, then got pissy at them over your own misunderstanding. And then you went for some ice cream headache of a passive-aggressive personal dig, pretending they said anything about their own morality just so you could be a dick about it.

                Nobody’s asking you to agree with their post, but comprehending it might be helpful.

                • milu
                  milu
                  October 30, 2023 at 8:48 am | #

                  ooookay hey hey. Taffy i get that you find @not someone else’s reaction unfair but maybe consider?

                  i think it’s okay actually that they have a bit of a kneejerk reaction to bigoted shit and react kind of stiffly to what could easily be misread as tone-policing. i don’t think that’s what they’re doing, i don’t know The Daily Grind either but in the context of this comment section i think it’s fine actually for trans folks to be a bit exhausted by appeals to politeness. (it’s also cool that not everyone is and some have more patience with the Joyces of this world, thank god!)

                  i actually agree with @Chris Phoenix’s point, to the extent that i understand the context they’re framing it in. that doesn’t make me unsympathetic to @not someone else’s reaction. maybe they’re exhausted and got kind of snappy at someone actually calling for compassionate allyship, not tone-policing of discriminated folks themselves. it’s understandable.

              • Mark
                Mark
                October 30, 2023 at 7:23 am | #

                This would have been a good moment for Dorothy to work on the vital political skill of looking at the topic through the other person’s values and speaking the other’s language.

                It would make her a shoo-in in any contest with any of the current crop of pol.s, who seem to score zero in that department.

                • TulipKitten
                  TulipKitten
                  October 30, 2023 at 11:10 am | #

                  If Dorothy still wants to be President or even take a small political office. She doesn’t have the moral stomach to make hard/evil decisions that involve personal gain. And usually, those people don’t make it too far in politics. Becky had a really good point when she mentioned that. Politics requires ruthlessness (and money) to gain a seat at the table.

        • Mark
          Mark
          October 30, 2023 at 7:19 am | #

          Wow, missed opportunity.

          “What do you think ‘people’ means?”

    • Meagan
      Meagan
      October 30, 2023 at 1:10 am | #

      Couldn’t have said it better myself. Don’t usually have the spoons to type these kinds of thoughts out, especially given the usual response, but I appreciate that you did.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      October 30, 2023 at 1:19 am | #

      these are all good points. Acknowledging that you didn’t say Dorothy was terrible, just you wish she’d done it differently, I do want to say something in her defense.
      She’s not wise beyond her years, she has a little more experience with some things and a little less with others. She’s also doing the best she can, in the right direction. She just doesn’t know she’s ordinary yet, possibly also because of her upbringing.

      • Chris Phoenix
        Chris Phoenix
        October 30, 2023 at 1:43 am | #

        I was talking about Dorothy… but also about some of the people in the comment section.

        Yes, Dorothy is doing fairly well. Rather than criticize or call out a real person directly, I focused on what Dorothy could have done better. I do hope that we in real life can be quicker to empathize with people who are working on improving themselves, rather than focusing on their mistakes or cringe factor.

        • HueSatLight
          HueSatLight
          October 30, 2023 at 10:51 am | #

          My reflex was to cringe at Joyce, I need to work on asking myself if I’m cringing because of regret / fear I would have made a similar mistake (or still might make).

    • Bash
      Bash
      October 30, 2023 at 2:44 am | #

      As a reader I think Joyce is doing pretty good here, but if I was actually in Dorothy’s position I might not be sure how to handle it. I’m sure it’s awkward for her too. I think they’re both trying their best without being completely sure how to handle the situation.

    • The Oracle
      The Oracle
      October 30, 2023 at 3:48 am | #

      No. Perfection right away or you’re a bad person and can safely be discarded. Those are the rules.

      • anonymsly
        anonymsly
        October 30, 2023 at 10:19 am | #

        This. And also, there’s no difference between asking questions out of genuine curiosity and desire to learn and asking questions sarcastically to reinforce your closed-minded judgements.

    • PedanticJerkass
      PedanticJerkass
      October 30, 2023 at 12:07 pm | #

      Sure, Dorothy could have handled this a lot better, but it might be worth keeping in mind that Dorothy is also in the midst of her own mental breakdown at the moment, and her reaction to Joyce here could just be another manifestation of that. Doesn’t really excuse it, mind you, but it could at the least explain it.

    • BBCC
      BBCC
      October 30, 2023 at 2:58 pm | #

      I don’t think how Dorothy phrased it is judgey. Telling Joyce that she’s not going to tell her if she’s going to be weird about it isn’t a bad thing. It’s a single, firmly stated boundary that she’s not going to tell Joyce who it is if she’s gonna be out of line. And while yes, it’s natural that Joyce doesn’t know how to get in line yet, that doesn’t mean that reaction should be coddled. Telling someone they’re out of line is not mean or rude or lacking compassion for them and it certainly doesn’t mean that you have nothing but contempt from them from thereon in. That’s something they need to know if they’re gonna be dealing with people from the group they’re freaking out about.

      Personally, I’d take being told ‘I’m not going to tell you who yet because you’ll probably run and pester her and she doesn’t need that’ to be far more lacking in compassion. Yeah, I’m wigging out because I’m learning about a new group of people, that doesn’t mean I’m suddenly a toddler who needs to be told not to pester people. I’m learning, I’m not three.

      And honestly? Maybe he continues to treat the person rudely but the excerpt of The Daily Grind you posted doesn’t seem unforgiving to me. Someone questioning someone else’s personhood DOES sound pretty bad and they need to know that before they interact more with them. Saying you don’t know what they mean by that also offers them the chance to stop and think about they mean by people. Yes, it’s normal to freak out, but that doesn’t mean someone pointing out you’re saying something crappy is unforgiving. Especially since it sounds like James is very familiar with this situation and having this conversation over and over again is exhausting. It’s okay to demand compassion for learning but it’s not cool to demand people gentle talk the whole way through it regardless of what they say without ever telling them ‘Dude, not cool’.

      • BBCC
        BBCC
        October 30, 2023 at 3:00 pm | #

        I meant to add this, sorry. Joyce IS doing very well considering her upbringing and I’m sure she’ll continue to improve. I think it’d be good to say ‘good’ about Joyce correcting her mom, and none of this is meant as a condemnation of Joyce overall.

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 4:18 pm | #

        ykw actually yes i agree with all of what you said.
        it’s ok to be a bit bitey with people when they’re talking trash, even unwittingly. maybe it’s not the most perfectest attitude, but i feel like it’s a minor point and a matter of personality more than ethical concern.

        (i also had that reaction to the dialogue that @Chris Phoenix quotes of… wait that’s supposed to be an example of cold and unforgiving? that response actually sounds… fine to me?)

        sure we can have compassion and patience for Joyce. it’s good to be compassionate and patient. or, like, not? it’s kind of whatever in my book? ultimately, not a hill i’ll die on either way. what does matter is for her to get that what she says is not ok.

        now i do think allies being little superior gatekeepey shits for cheap clout do suck, but i don’t think that describes either situation here.

  28. Yeet
    Yeet
    October 30, 2023 at 12:37 am | #

    I don’t know if this still counts as throwing off an overly religious upbringing unevenly or just generally being unaware of things
    the asking about people’s genitalia is definitely the first bit though

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 2:02 am | #

      i mean, it is a thought that’d occur to ppl when they first learn about trans ppl at a younger age but most ppl don’t rly blurt it out loud unless they’re younger

      but given what her mothers like i wouldnt’ be surprised if she grew up having worse preconceived notions

      • thejeff
        thejeff
        October 30, 2023 at 9:09 am | #

        She’s also not blurting it out to the person in question, but to a close friend of hers, which does make a difference. I suspect even Joyce would be a bit more circumspect if she was talking to Carla directly (assuming she learns it is Carla.)

        • TulipKitten
          TulipKitten
          October 30, 2023 at 11:20 am | #

          I think the way this story goes in the long term is that Joyce is going to learn it’s Carla, Jocelyne is going to come out a little bit later. She’s gonna probably say something slightly insensitive because she’s Joyce, then freak out after the conversation and ask someone for help since this is way beyond her depth. This would also be way beyond Dorothy’s depth, so she would try to turn to Carla, but then eventually turn to Booster at some point.

          Basically, out of all the other trans people in this comic… Carla considers herself way too important for this, Joyce doesn’t know Zaph, Malaya considers herself way too inexperienced for this, so Booster, the one tackling a psychology program, is probably the best fit.

          • Seralyna
            Seralyna
            October 30, 2023 at 12:40 pm | #

            I think to say Carla would consider herself too important is giving her too little credit. It was a long time ago, and relativley brief when it happened, but being trans is pretty clearly the one part of her life she takes A Lot more seriously than everything else (likely because she was forced to by public scrutiny.)

            I could see her dismissing joyce if it was Just about Joyce, but bringing the fact that its her sister who would suffer by not helping her, I wouldn’t be suprised if carla did try to help.

            Now, her help might be kinda goofy and too self centered to be useful, but I kinda assume she would at least try.

            • Jamie
              Jamie
              October 30, 2023 at 3:47 pm | #

              Yeah, Carla’s self-aggrandizement reads pretty clearly as a defense mechanism to me. When the chips were down (Ruth going full suicidal), she made an active effort to do her best to help. As you say, the quality of her help can be debated, and I’m not entirely convinced she’d be willing to try (again, the aftermath of the Ruth episode), but I don’t think she’d refuse out of a sense of self-importance.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      October 30, 2023 at 8:46 am | #

      I chalked that one up to Joyce’s usual innocent complete disregard of boundaries.

    • TulipKitten
      TulipKitten
      October 30, 2023 at 11:29 am | #

      Joyce didn’t ask Dorothy about her weenus, though. She just looked awkwardly. She’s probably not going to look at everyone’s things on the floor. Even if she did, there’s no telling how far she would get.

      Carla could…

      A. Have had genital reconstruction surgery or an orchiectomy.
      B. Be tucking.
      C. Wearing a gaff.
      D. Have small enough testicles and/or penis that it wouldn’t be visible with tight underwear.

  29. Taffy
    Taffy
    October 30, 2023 at 12:41 am | #

    Next strip: Carla walks in and cooks some instant ramen. While the noodles boil, she complains loudly about her junk sitting weird today. Joyce is too busy staring heterosexually at Dorothy’s crotch to notice. Carla finishes making her noodles and walks off.

    • Teddae
      Teddae
      October 30, 2023 at 12:50 am | #

      I’d pay Willis to draw that.

      • not someone else
        not someone else
        October 30, 2023 at 1:28 am | #

        I mean, same.

    • Rabid Rabbit
      Rabid Rabbit
      October 30, 2023 at 1:15 am | #

      …this comment reminds me of how until I saw one of Yomotoe’s drawings, I was unaware that I’d always assumed Carla had had bottom surgery. This is because until I saw said drawing and realised that, I had never spent so much as a split second thinking about the configuration of Carla’s crotch.

      I then contemplated my assumption for a while, and was deeply relieved to discover that I could actually provide reasons for my assumption.

      • Taffy
        Taffy
        October 30, 2023 at 1:19 am | #

        If Carla=Girl, and Crotchthink=0, then Dongsumption=0 as well. It’s basic JRPG math.

      • Jamie
        Jamie
        October 30, 2023 at 3:52 pm | #

        I hadn’t even gotten that far. It barely registers to me that Carla may have been born in any other way than bursting out of the womb crowing her name in delight.

        *pause* *facepalm* Yes, Jamie. Of course she takes so much delight in her name. That should really have been obvious. I just … don’t think about Carla, really.

    • Thag Simmons
      Thag Simmons
      October 30, 2023 at 6:10 am | #

      unrelated, what’s up with the green ginger dorothy

  30. Mollyscribbles
    Mollyscribbles
    October 30, 2023 at 12:45 am | #

    on the plus side, at least Joyce is going to learn the “holy shit do not say this” lesson from someone who won’t steal her kneecaps.

  31. Blackdrazon
    Blackdrazon
    October 30, 2023 at 12:48 am | #

    This is… this is going to be why the storyline is titled “Everyone is Looking for Nothing,” isn’t it.

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      October 30, 2023 at 3:53 pm | #

      Tbh, the chapter titles are often applicable to several different things that happen inside them. It’s genuinely impressive to me that Willis can do that.

  32. Bogeywoman
    Bogeywoman
    October 30, 2023 at 12:56 am | #

    I have been Joyce in this situation, I have been Dorothy and I have also been Carla. Joyce will learn and it will be awkward. At the dumbing age that is the only way.

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      October 30, 2023 at 3:54 pm | #

      Wait. There’s a non-dumbing age? When does it start? Asking for a friend.

  33. PirateTawnee
    PirateTawnee
    October 30, 2023 at 12:59 am | #

    Ehhh, it’s an awkward and uncomfortable conversation but at least they’re trying? Dotty is doing well, Joyce less so, but we’ve ample evidence for how fast she can grow and learn without causing undue chaos and destruction, so I’m hopeful.

  34. Juanoku
    Juanoku
    October 30, 2023 at 12:59 am | #

    Joyce what the fuck

    • Taffy
      Taffy
      October 30, 2023 at 1:02 am | #

      Yeah, it’s like she’s new to this or something.

      • HueSatLight
        HueSatLight
        October 30, 2023 at 1:25 am | #

        Joyce pulling “My old friend Kurzon Jadzia” level of understanding immediately would have been hilarious.

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          October 30, 2023 at 3:22 am | #

          Had to look up what that meant, but I agree.

          (Adding Star Trek to the list of Things People Reference Daily)

          • Needfuldoer
            Needfuldoer
            October 30, 2023 at 8:49 am | #

            Sokath, his eyes opened!

            (I reference Trek all the dang time. Also Homestar Runner.)

          • HueSatLight
            HueSatLight
            October 30, 2023 at 5:24 pm | #

            Here’s the viewing order of the 8 live action series, 3 animated series, 2 series of ‘shorts’, and 13 movies of star trek that you’re obligated to watch to get references. Be forewarned, a lot of them are bad, as any true trek fan will tell you.
            1.

            • Needfuldoer
              Needfuldoer
              October 30, 2023 at 7:01 pm | #

              Are you really a Trek fan if you don’t have a list of episodes you love to hate-watch? A bunch of episodes are objectively bad TV, but we love them anyway. (At least the ones that are “Threshold” bad; the community shuns the episodes that are “Code of Honor” bad, thank goodness.)

              If you want a more digestible first Trek, watch Lower Decks. The first few episodes are a little too slapstick, but it finds its footing halfway through the first season. It’s more fun if you get all the “blink and you miss it” references they stick in, but you don’t have to have all of Memory Alpha memorized to enjoy the show.

              Start with the original series or TNG season 2 if you want a “proper” watch-through. Just remember they don’t have decades of worldbuilding to benefit from, so up through the middle of TNG will feel a little sparse. (And no, they never go back to the prohibition-era Chicago gangster planet, or the “very obviously shot on the Mayberry backlot” planet.)

  35. The Oracle
    The Oracle
    October 30, 2023 at 1:16 am | #

    It’s not a secret, you just have to pay a thousand dollars up front to see it for five seconds.

    • David DeLaney
      David DeLaney
      October 30, 2023 at 7:45 pm | #

      you have hereby invoked rule 34, sir/ma’am/both/neither

      –Dave, pronoun clump happily stolen from the epic milsf space opera _First Contact_

  36. Raen
    Raen
    October 30, 2023 at 1:31 am | #

    …Malaya was national news? Somehow they being them I don’t doubt it.

    • bagge
      bagge
      October 30, 2023 at 2:00 am | #

      A reporter from national TV wanted to do some feelgood interview with a cute little girl on a fair or something like that and she made him cry within two minutes (because of course she did)

  37. DashWallkick
    DashWallkick
    October 30, 2023 at 1:31 am | #

    My wife read this and said, “This is approaching Peggy Hill levels”

  38. HueSatLight
    HueSatLight
    October 30, 2023 at 1:32 am | #

    I know it’s for the punchline in the strip, but Joyce’s pose in panel 5 is a “reprogramming brain” look to me. And sometimes other people are in the eyeline of that.

    • Mark
      Mark
      October 30, 2023 at 7:29 am | #

      You are not alone. Whatever the cause, that’s a thoughtful look.

    • Needfuldoer
      Needfuldoer
      October 30, 2023 at 8:52 am | #

      She had the spinning circle cursor over her head in that frame.

      (Mostly because she’s too young for the Windows 95 hourglass.)

    • Regret
      Regret
      October 30, 2023 at 6:38 pm | #

      Man, I miss the ability to reprogram my brain. There’s a step or thingy missing but I can’t figure it out.

  39. Raen
    Raen
    October 30, 2023 at 1:33 am | #

    …wait, they’re talking about Carla, aren’t they? I kinda doubt she’d care if Dorothy outed her. If nothing else, she’s a millionaire, isn’t she?

    • Angel
      Angel
      October 30, 2023 at 1:49 am | #

      Dorothy probably wants to rein her in before she talks to carla if they do run into each other

      tho given the ordeal with mary any thing joyce might say if a bit ignorant/naive wouldn’t possibly be as bad, or not change carla’s opinion as much if she still sees her as a ‘bible girl’ even tho she was told joyce is an atheist now

    • Chris Phoenix
      Chris Phoenix
      October 30, 2023 at 1:50 am | #

      Her parents are rich and own a very high-tech company, and support her for who she is.

      But having rich parents doesn’t offer much emotional protection. And in many circumstances it wouldn’t even offer practical protection.

      Being a millionaire doesn’t come anywhere close to making Carla invulnerable enough that she would be careless about being outed. Now, Carla’s personality might make her not-care. Or care-but-pretend-she-didn’t.

      It may sound trite or silly, but millionaires are people, and deserve to be treated like people. Not outed casually because “they’re rich, why should they care?” or “they’re rich so it’s OK to hurt them.”

      • Raen
        Raen
        October 30, 2023 at 3:49 am | #

        Booster talks about how terrible her parents are, but whatever faults they have, they love their daughter, and support her transition totally.

    • Bash
      Bash
      October 30, 2023 at 2:39 am | #

      “if you’re going to be weird about it” is the operative phrase here. She doesn’t want to set Carla up for a Joyce-freakout.

      • DashWallkick
        DashWallkick
        October 30, 2023 at 10:58 am | #

        It’s also a little rude too. But yes, making sure Joyce doesn’t misunderstand boundaries and run up and loudly inform Carla that she’s proud of her for her transition out of nowhere is just good thinking.

        Though with Carla it might backfire. “Yes, you are proud of me! Tell me more about how brave and special I am!”

        • Jamie
          Jamie
          October 30, 2023 at 3:57 pm | #

          I mean, I wouldn’t call that backfiring.

  40. milu
    milu
    October 30, 2023 at 1:53 am | #

    …well then, well then!!!

    more detailed, coloured illustrations of things Joyce never ever carefully considered and envisaged and gave a truly insane amount of thought about?!

    Literally not a single time, has the specific sexually objectifying gay threesome herein depicted been agonizingly visualized by Joyces hyperactive horny brain in lewd slomo, tasteful lighting and IMAX quality

    Nope nuh uh

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      October 30, 2023 at 2:00 am | #

      ooooooooh

    • Throwatron
      Throwatron
      October 30, 2023 at 2:45 am | #

      well yeah, that’s clearly space captain julia mcgray

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 9:06 am | #

        exactly. and those are space vampires from warring factions. that’s just what intergalactic conflict resolution looks like. (President Kenner is about to enter the fray and rubber-stamp the peace treaty by ceremonially fingerbanging her trusted Space Captain. a bit of a formality but well, that’s politics. lotta protocol.)

        • Pergola
          Pergola
          October 30, 2023 at 11:56 am | #

          Engaging in diplomatic intercourse, huh…

          • milu
            milu
            October 30, 2023 at 12:20 pm | #

            in fairness to historical reality, leaders making genitalia-based decisions is certainly a lot more common than anyone would be comfortable admitting in a UN plenary session. “everything is sex, except sex which is power” something something, i’m very smart. back to drawing sexy gay sex though.

    • Quirdry Tawks
      Quirdry Tawks
      October 30, 2023 at 2:51 am | #

      Did you come up with these, that quickly? I am rethinking whether I really wasted all that much talent in not pursuing art. 😞

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 8:59 am | #

        ummm i don’t know what answer gets you to not be sad???? i’m sure you can still pursue art and make some extremely smoldering smut yourself?

        • Quirdry Tawks
          Quirdry Tawks
          October 30, 2023 at 11:32 pm | #

          Eh. Mine would all be goils. I think just me and Yoto are the audience for that. xD

    • Taffy
      Taffy
      October 30, 2023 at 3:49 am | #

      The answer to the age-old question, “Who’s been drawing dicks?”

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 8:57 am | #

        *sun-drenched spaghetti western vibe*
        Joe, Ethan and Jacob are staring at each other intently.
        in a flash, they each draw their dicks, and clouds of kicked up dust momentarily obscure the scene.
        next thing you know, the three of them are lying down in a heap… plugged full of dicks.

        and scene

    • Amós Batista
      Amós Batista
      October 30, 2023 at 1:30 pm | #

      hot, very hot

    • Hrodvitnir
      Hrodvitnir
      October 30, 2023 at 4:30 pm | #

      Wow. Stunning.

  41. bagge
    bagge
    October 30, 2023 at 1:59 am | #

    Carla would totally be into the concept of her very presence having lead Joyce astray… which would leave Becky in a huff because if anyone corrupted Joyce it was HER, dammit.

  42. Raen
    Raen
    October 30, 2023 at 2:05 am | #

    My eyes are pretty lousy. We’re talking about Carla, who’s not even slightly stealth, but a six-even silly person, right? (Also, how the hell does Joyce not know?! She brings it up constantly, and literally said when Joyce painted a penis on her door called it a hate crime until she realized it was on all the doors.)

    • Bash
      Bash
      October 30, 2023 at 2:38 am | #

      Joyce doesn’t exactly understand what to look for. Some of the audience might not eve know if there weren’t non-Joyce strips where Carla spells it out.

      • Daibhid C
        Daibhid C
        October 30, 2023 at 5:20 am | #

        I’m not sure she does bring it up that often; if it’s a natural part of the conversation, perhaps, but mostly it seems like making sure people know she’s trans would get in the way of making sure people know she’s C*A*R*L*A.

        It’s still been obvious enough that I picked up on it, but there’s a difference between Joyce, who doesn’t pick up on these things because of her upbringing, and me, who doesn’t usually pick up on these things because I’m an idiot.

        • Bash
          Bash
          October 30, 2023 at 6:03 am | #

          She’s hinted at it a few times, and also mentioned it explicitly during a storyline about Mary. So for the audience it might feel like she talks about it a lot. Since Joyce is the main character it can be easy to forget that she wasn’t around for that and doesn’t know everything we know.

        • morleuca
          morleuca
          October 30, 2023 at 7:58 am | #

          And I’m fairly certain a large portion of Carla’s bombastic nature is either a deliberate or subconscious act to deflect away from her transness and keep others at arm’s length.

          • HueSatLight
            HueSatLight
            October 30, 2023 at 10:11 am | #

            also cover for her face-blindness. possibly.

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      October 30, 2023 at 9:15 am | #

      Carla almost never brings it up. And never explicitly. She hinted to Sal early on. There was the reaction to the whiteboard dingdong.
      Obviously the incident with Mary. A talk with Malaya. But those weren’t her bringing it up.
      For all the attention she wants on herself, it’s pretty clear she doesn’t want any attention for that.

      • Bash
        Bash
        October 30, 2023 at 11:29 am | #

        She did mention it directly when Ruth complains about her antagonizing Mary.
        https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/antagonize/

        • thejeff
          thejeff
          October 30, 2023 at 12:41 pm | #

          Sure, but it had just been brought up horribly earlier in that scene. She’s willing to talk about it directly when needed, but she rarely brings it up and never that explicitly.

        • Seralyna
          Seralyna
          October 30, 2023 at 12:47 pm | #

          i don’t blame people for not remembering such an old comic, but it is a very good example to point out that This Specific thing tends to cut through carlas persona pretty distinctly

          • thejeff
            thejeff
            October 30, 2023 at 3:18 pm | #

            Yup. One of the few times we get to see her with all the “Pay attention to me I’m an asshole!” armor stripped away.

  43. Bruno
    Bruno
    October 30, 2023 at 2:22 am | #

    Oh man. Just outed myself to a super sheltered cishet girl myself and Gosh do I wish I wasn’t also her Dorothy.

    • morleuca
      morleuca
      October 30, 2023 at 7:45 am | #

      That is a terribly exhausting position to be in. I always have to remind myself to breathe and try to smile through it. Good luck, hun

      • Bruno
        Bruno
        October 31, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

        I also kinda wish she gave a shit to learn as much as Joyce does.

  44. Bash
    Bash
    October 30, 2023 at 2:37 am | #

    I find it very funny that she seems to have picked up “weenus” from Walky.

    • Quirdry Tawks
      Quirdry Tawks
      October 30, 2023 at 2:58 am | #

      Every time I see the word, I think ”Weezer”. Which doesn’t work; I don’t think they’ve been in the national news for a couple decades.

      • Needfuldoer
        Needfuldoer
        October 30, 2023 at 8:58 am | #

        They don’t care about that.

        • Quirdry Tawks
          Quirdry Tawks
          October 30, 2023 at 11:20 pm | #

          Ooh wee ooh.

  45. Ilthit
    Ilthit
    October 30, 2023 at 2:45 am | #

    Willis, I have put up with this Joyce/Dorothy tease for YEARS. Have mercy!

    It’s because I know this is a comic that is aware of the nuances of orientation and attraction; this is a comic I would trust to understand concepts like an ace trans lesbian (yes Carla, I see you) or queerplatonic relationships and sex buds that are not dating, Etc. So if Joyce and Dorothy say they are straight, they can be straight!

    Because of this, I accepted platonic mutual masturbation. I accepted their non-romantic adoration for one another. But now Joyce is staring at Dorothy’s crotch, thinking about her genitals.

    WILLIS. I AM TOO GAY FOR THIS. I am THIS close to either writing fanfiction, or creating OCs vaguely based on them just so they can make out.

    • Quirdry Tawks
      Quirdry Tawks
      October 30, 2023 at 2:55 am | #

      As a transbian, I sympathize.

      As a non-Ace I’m holding out hope for the Slipshine. 🤭

    • not someone else
      not someone else
      October 30, 2023 at 3:27 am | #

      Hey, I’ve yet to see the author complain about any of the fanstuff that gets linked here, including noncanon stuff, and Joyce/Dorothy is pretty tame. Go ye forth and write.

    • Bash
      Bash
      October 30, 2023 at 5:57 am | #

      I think Joyce will come out as bi once she feels less panicked about sex. Dorothy might be straight, but she’s usually slightly more normal about it all.

      • anonymsly
        anonymsly
        October 30, 2023 at 9:52 am | #

        I don’t think Joyce is bisexual – compare her attention to men she’s attracted to to any given woman and you’ll see a marked difference: Joyce gets horny for men and not women. Biromantic maybe, but I don’t see bisexual.

        • HueSatLight
          HueSatLight
          October 30, 2023 at 10:16 am | #

          I think Joyce is biromantic, and gives off sexually confusing vibes that have awakened something in Dorothy, who is bisexual.

        • Bash
          Bash
          October 30, 2023 at 11:25 am | #

          Yeah, I guess I see what you mean.

    • BBCC
      BBCC
      October 30, 2023 at 2:04 pm | #

      Write more fanfic! We need more!

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 3:59 pm | #

        be the gay that you want to see in the world!

    • Li
      Li
      October 30, 2023 at 5:57 pm | #

      Yeah, I don’t know what’s going on exactly? The strip itself has lampshaded the issue a few times — Daisy calling Joyce’s comic strip out for “feeling kind of queerbaity” if her self-insert and the character based on Dorothy don’t eventually get together, and similarities between Joyce/Dorothy and Leslie/Ann (Parks and Recreation) were highlighted, albeit in a scene that was ALSO very much about Robin’s denial. I can definitely picture all of this culminating in Joyce one day giving Dorothy a similarly loving look and saying, “No, tragically we are both heterosexual” (a line of actual dialogue from Leslie about Ann in P&R’s final season).

      I can also picture it eventually going more the way that The Good Place did, where eventually Eleanor just acknowledged she was “legit into Tahani” and thus bisexual but the show was firmly committed to a completely different endgame ship, and Tahani wasn’t it for Eleanor.

      I think the latter was better, certainly, but I won’t say they didn’t both disappoint my gay little heart.

      (I have no issue with the men Eleanor and Leslie dated instead; like Joe is with Joyce, they were cute. The gay little heart just wants what it wants. I’m not quite inspired to write fanfic, though; even though I know the actors and writers for both shows would be super on board with me writing fan fiction of my “preferred ships”, it still feels a little… I don’t know. Sad. Like throwing your own birthday party because your friends forgot.)

      • milu
        milu
        October 30, 2023 at 6:26 pm | #

        ok but some of the Eleanor x Tahani fics on AO3 are actually amazing.

        • Li
          Li
          October 31, 2023 at 2:15 am | #

          I’m glad you enjoy them! idk, it’s not a problem I usually have with noncanon ships. (I mean, it’s the 2020s and all, but I’m pushing 40, and even nowadays the ships my gay heart wants very rarely happen, so I’m extremely used to carrying on regardless.) Maybe it’s something unique about the intersection of the creative team basically taking me by the hands, looking directly into my eyes, and saying, “We know! We see the potential too. It’s valid and so are you! But nah.”

          The most I’m used to hoping for is that a show/book series/comic will end without actively sinking my ship, but something about my ship being sunk while the creative team acknowledges it and says it’s neat but it’s never happening… really kills the part of my brain that wants to engage in transformative fiction. I just kinda go “oh, okay,” and move on.

          Full respect to Willis, I won’t accuse the strip of queerbaiting even if Willis themself does, but I will be sad? I don’t think anyone can ask more of a shipper than that. 🙂

      • Yumi
        Yumi
        October 30, 2023 at 6:42 pm | #

        I liked both BenXLeslie and ChidiXEleanor enough that I wouldn’t have wanted the other ship over them, BUT I wanted both Ann and Tahani to end up realizing they were gay. (Ann and Chris the second time around was kinda eh for me.)

        • Li
          Li
          October 31, 2023 at 2:32 am | #

          I didn’t want Leslie not to marry Ben, but I really would have liked a poly thing. Admittedly a poly thing in keeping with the rest of the tone of the show would have kind of sidelined Ben (thinking of a million jokes, but most specifically the one where the gang makes a word cloud out of Leslie’s emails / tweets / what have you, and there’s a pretty Big Ben word balloon but a HUUUUGE Ann one and the characters conclude “well, she really loves Ann”)…

          Also Ann being gay would’ve — fit a specific type of later in life gay awakening? Her relationships with men were all pretty terrible, her moment of clarity around how every man she’s dated so far has become her whole personality… it would’ve been interesting and would have made sense for the character to fall in love with a woman and be like “oh! huh! this is different, have I been self-sabotaging this whole time because subconsciously I didn’t want to date men???”

          …also-also? I will never not be disappointed in general by how incredibly heteronormative the end of Parks & Rec was — and I don’t just mean “everyone was straight”, I mean everyone was married-with-children. I doubt it was intentional, but if you compare the first few episodes to the finale, it’s very… noticeable. “Huh, I forgot that April was originally in an asymmetrical poly relationship with two queer men. Oh, and Donna had multiple Friends With Benefits going on. Leslie wasn’t exactly strong and independent with no need for a man, but she sure did live alone in a house that she owned? We had a bunch of happily single characters, like Ron and Ann when she first broke up with Andy, and……… now everyone’s married with kids or kids on the way or both. We even married off the two token gay guys to each other. Hm.”

          Unfortunate Implications about what it means to grow up.

          Tahani meanwhile… did she ever actually express interest in men? I know Jason was her assigned soulmate at one point but if she ever actually made significant eyes at a boy I’m not remembering it. It probably would’ve felt performative even if she had, given how much of her early characterization WAS performative. Hmm. I haven’t rewatched TGP yet.

    • Li
      Li
      October 30, 2023 at 6:04 pm | #

      oh also it is a bit funny to me how much credence everyone gives to the one comic in 2015 where Dorothy called herself “I don’t know probably a zero? I guess that could change,” as if that was the Definitive Final Clinching Proof of her heterosexuality. Plus one time she disparagingly said something sounded like it was “outside [her] dumb cishet experience”, which is definitely not a sentiment any queer person has ever felt or expressed prior to coming out because goodness knows we were all totally self-aware at 18.

      (This is a “it’s not the conclusion I have a problem with so much as the process by which the conclusion was reached” situation.)

    • David DeLaney
      David DeLaney
      October 30, 2023 at 7:50 pm | #

      FANFIC FOR THE FANFIC FILES

      –Dave, SLASH FOR THE SLASH PHONE

    • Amós Batista
      Amós Batista
      October 30, 2023 at 10:22 pm | #

      I can’t take it anymore! It’s so much teasing to me.

  46. Acher4
    Acher4
    October 30, 2023 at 4:46 am | #

    oooooh, she really didn’t know.
    :O

  47. ADLegend21
    ADLegend21
    October 30, 2023 at 4:53 am | #

    TFW Joyce does not register who Carla is. Carla would be PISSED lol.

    • Plaaaaaa
      Plaaaaaa
      October 30, 2023 at 6:19 am | #

      I’m half expecting Dorothy to be referring to someone else!

    • ValdVin
      ValdVin
      October 30, 2023 at 7:27 am | #

      Carla is the one who reverse-engineered Joyce’s shower shoes so she doesn’t have to say “Oh no, my hubris!”

      Joyce certainly remembers that.

    • anonymsly
      anonymsly
      October 30, 2023 at 9:50 am | #

      Joyce knows who Carla is. Joyce does not register Carla as anything but a fellow girl/woman. Why should Carla be pissed?

  48. eskimolos
    eskimolos
    October 30, 2023 at 5:24 am | #

    I think due to the nature and the audience, conversations like this don’t feel super authentic. There’s no reason for completely cishet lib politicking Dorothy to have near-divine perfect intersectional clarity on an issue she has very little personal investment or even secondhand experience with, but because Joyce is the voice of the unlearned and Dorothy is the voice of the learned, the exchange must happen this way.

    Meanwhile as a closet transmasc bisexual disaster with a pretty good cover story, I have to have this conversation regularly with people of various professed political alignments, and the conversation almost always goes “kids forgetting what gender they are/confused, sure I support what they want for themselves, it doesn’t affect *me* any, but I do think it’s a mental illness/fad/confusion etc.”

    When we’re on the internet in leftist circles, it’s easy to believe and assume that the outward shows of support and fighting back against trans critical narratives are the norm, but I’ve gone back to uni recently and even among the trans youths I end up around, most of the kids are just following and repeating what they hear online, it’s just as confusing for them – so why would an 18 year old with no gender or sexuality questions who’s spent much of her life trying to follow a script for promising young politicians be up to date on issues that struggle to gain widespread consensus and understanding even in their spheres of influence, much less members of the wider political alignment that may or may not support them?

    The answer is simply that sometimes this comic is meant to be a reflection and condensation of the author’s own experiences, and a megaphone attempting to show what is and isn’t appropriate in a given circumstance.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      October 30, 2023 at 10:37 am | #

      Chris Phoenix’s comment above examines how Dorothy’s response is not actually ideal. She’s good about being informed, but medium in execution. It’s something I noticed when she suggested Joyce “try deism”, she projects perfect clarity, but doesn’t have it.

      Maybe she is still doing unexpectedly better than someone who is light on experience and heavy on just reading about it, for the reason you said.

    • Seralyna
      Seralyna
      October 30, 2023 at 12:53 pm | #

      It’s really not that unbelievable that someone as idealistic as dorothy would spend way too many hours one night looking into trans people and how we want to be treated, considering she has been in a dorm with one for months, and then had another trans person introduced to her social circle, and someone who was already in it come out.

      Even despite that shes not being perfect about it. I could kinda agree that joyce herself is being a little too nice for realism, but considering the absurd degree of specifics we know about joyce, its not really that unreasonable to imagine her being fully uninformed instead of informed Badly

    • Hrodvitnir
      Hrodvitnir
      October 30, 2023 at 4:35 pm | #

      Uh. Your concluding paragraph: 100%. Your take that this reads unnatural? I disagree. This reads as an incredibly normal conversation to me. Joyce’s fundie reactions can go into cartoonish to me (as in literally, things are exaggerated in webcomics), but Dorothy seems extremely accurate.

      /ID as transmasc, present as female, spend my IRL time around liberal people who are mostly-hypothetically accepting. I have been triggered by ignorant comments in the past, yet this is basically how I’d expect my cohort to react here.

      • Hrodvitnir
        Hrodvitnir
        October 30, 2023 at 4:35 pm | #

        Ew, I didn’t think I changed my email. Give me back blowjob cat!

        • Hrodvitnir
          Hrodvitnir
          October 30, 2023 at 4:36 pm | #

          One more try with different capitalisation.

  49. Alan in DC
    Alan in DC
    October 30, 2023 at 5:39 am | #

    I was the bass player for “A Secret Weenus” back in ’94.

    • David DeLaney
      David DeLaney
      October 30, 2023 at 7:53 pm | #

      but did it go up to 11?

      –Dave, we may know why the drummer exploded now

  50. thumb
    thumb
    October 30, 2023 at 5:46 am | #

    It’s one thing being progressive from your comfy armchair, it’s different when actually interacting with the people on whose side you claim to be. That said, Joyce already stepped up once, she can be better.

    “Secret weenus” kmt.

  51. Willoughby Chase
    Willoughby Chase
    October 30, 2023 at 7:27 am | #

    Secret Weenus an upbeat combo of the popular variety m’lud

  52. AGV
    AGV
    October 30, 2023 at 7:36 am | #

    Oh Joyce, we forget how long your path to progress is

    • DailyBrad
      DailyBrad
      October 30, 2023 at 12:32 pm | #

      https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-10/02-to-remind-you-of-my-love/situation/

      Joe doesn’t forget. (I love that he loves her but still is perfectly aware of how she can be.)

      • Joyfulldreams
        Joyfulldreams
        October 30, 2023 at 1:10 pm | #

        This is still quite possibly my favorite strip in the whole comic. That is one of the most romantic things a person could ever possibly say about the person they love. God damn. Still gets to me.

      • Jamie
        Jamie
        October 30, 2023 at 4:08 pm | #

        Every time I click on a link to an old comic, I end up reading for another dozen or two strips.

        So, here’s Joyce and Dorothy about Joyce getting some Hot D.

  53. Carla's #2 Fan
    Carla's #2 Fan
    October 30, 2023 at 8:35 am | #

    I’m glad she’s having this conversation with Dorothy. She can get out all of her accidental harmful thoughts and be lovingly called on them.

  54. Valerie
    Valerie
    October 30, 2023 at 11:02 am | #

    Magazines?

  55. Hinoron
    Hinoron
    October 30, 2023 at 11:05 am | #

    Huh…
    If a “penis” is something the having of is one’s own private business…
    …Then is a “Weenus” (“We”, “Us” ) something to be shared with the general public?

    I blame Joyce’s aversion to certain words for this invasive thought that is going to be trapped in my brain for the rest of the morning, if not longer.

    • hatman
      hatman
      October 30, 2023 at 11:22 am | #

      the collective dick, if you will

  56. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    October 30, 2023 at 11:05 am | #

    Plot twist: yes, she is looking.

  57. HueSatLight
    HueSatLight
    October 30, 2023 at 11:08 am | #

    “Magazines” isn’t in the text in the comic, that usually only happens when there’s little or no text. Incidentally, the sliding timescale means that the article in Newsweek was when it was zombie Newsweek, run a right-wing church.

    • David M Willis
      David M Willis
      October 30, 2023 at 10:36 pm | #

      yeah first draft the text was “in magazines” but increasingly what the fuck are magazines

      • Quirdry Tawks
        Quirdry Tawks
        October 30, 2023 at 11:24 pm | #

        They’re the things you try not to notice in the checkout line.

  58. poyo
    poyo
    October 30, 2023 at 12:49 pm | #

    Sorry dotty but its your job as a cis to let joyce get ALL her stupid thoughts and questions out now so she can process it, realize the err of her ways, and move on to act normal 😌😌

  59. Pseudowolf
    Pseudowolf
    October 30, 2023 at 1:00 pm | #

    What Joyce needs is someone who will talk to her about these things and answer these kinds of questions, understanding that Joyce isn’t trying to offend them. She’s asking from a place of genuine curiosity and that should be encouraged while also helping her to understand these things and what and how things might be construed as offense, even if unintentionally.

    • Morleuca
      Morleuca
      October 30, 2023 at 7:37 pm | #

      yeah, but as a trans person, it is damn exhausting to act as someone’s living reference library. going to a cis ally is going to be more beneficial as there’s less chance Joyce is going to use up someone’s last spoon asking a “simple, innocuous” question that is just a step too far and get blown up at.

    • Yumi
      Yumi
      October 30, 2023 at 7:42 pm | #

      She needs someone who will talk with her from a place of understanding, but not necessarily answer *these* kinds of questions. Respond to with corrections or redirect, but not discuss another person’s genitalia with her as part of the intro.

  60. JasonAW3
    JasonAW3
    October 30, 2023 at 1:37 pm | #

    It was Mike… Maybe…

    • Jamie
      Jamie
      October 30, 2023 at 4:08 pm | #

      I see your Mike and raise you a Galasso.

  61. Diane
    Diane
    October 30, 2023 at 8:46 pm | #

    I know Joyce is being very face palmy with this, but hey, at least she still called them by her correct gender. Even with going “omg secret weenus” Joyce called the mystery trans woman a girl.

    • WillowD
      WillowD
      November 3, 2023 at 12:45 am | #

      I noticed that too and I was very impressed.

  62. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    October 30, 2023 at 11:55 pm | #

    occurred to me that Joyce should already know rather than having to look

  63. WillowD
    WillowD
    November 3, 2023 at 12:45 am | #

    I had a similar conversation once. There were a lot of people in Ottawa who were very active in both the BDSM and belly dancer communities. I forget how the conversation came up but I wound up telling one of the belly dancers that she actually knew a lot of people that were into BDSM. She wasn’t shocked or repulsed, just surprised.

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David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Bros
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wackd.bsky.social's user avatar
Wack'd @wackd.bsky.social ⋅ 5d
so my paycheck came back a little light this week because i missed work because i was in a car crash. if anyone wants to help me make up the $400 i owe my insurance company this month for their heroic effort to avoid paying me, i'd appreciate it www.paypal.com/paypalme/sah... venmo: sah32
www.paypal.com
Pay Seth Hershman using PayPal.Me
Go to paypal.me/SAHershman and type in the amount. Since it’s PayPal, it's easy and secure. Don’t have a PayPal account? No worries.
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
mr stark i don't feel so good
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keizama.bsky.social's user avatar
Kei Zama @keizama.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Rondom sketch of Squirrel Girl and One Bee
Pencil sketch on a sketchbook page. There is squirrel girl bust shot with her squirrel in her left shoulder. There is super rough sketch of Transfomers one bumblebee full shot, his arms are on his hip.
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
www.ebay.com/itm/23612235... Auctioning my Electro-Scramblerless, yellowing Kingdom Blaster/Eject! Bidding starts at 99 cents, BIN is six friggin' bucks!
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kentremendous.bsky.social's user avatar
Ken Tremendous @kentremendous.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
"We can't ask people if we can do this because they'll say no" hey man maybe that means what you're doing sucks
theverge.com's user avatarThe Verge @theverge.com ⋅ 2d
Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would ‘kill’ the AI industry
header image - Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would ‘kill’ the AI industry
buff.ly
Nick Clegg says asking artists for use permission would ‘kill’ the AI industry
Paul McCartne, Elton John and others signed an open letter.
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Time for One 2.
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gonebabygone.bsky.social's user avatar
Dies Irae (Trap Remix) @gonebabygone.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
Every comic creator's obituary is like, he created this iconic character who was in a movie that made $700 million last year. He died with a net worth of $12 after the publisher countersued him.
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Pablo Hidalgo @infinata.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
tfwiki.net/wiki/Tightes...
tfwiki.net
Tightest shirt - Transformers Wiki
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Josh Fruhlinger @jfruh.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
new comics curmudgeon post! joshreads.com/2025/0... love it when my girlfriend's eyes are normal
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mattielubchansky.com's user avatar
mattie lubchansky @mattielubchansky.com ⋅ 2d
crabs in a bucket | patreon.com/lubchansky
PANEL 1:  MATTIE sitting on the floor in front of a bucket.
MATTIE: Man, I put all these crabs in this bucket to watch them fight to the top for my amusement…

PANEL 2: MATTIE peering in close to the bucket. One claw is raised, holding a little piece of paper folded over.
MATTIE: …But it looks like they all just started trading ZINES in there!
MATTIE: Kind of annoying.

PANEL 3: MATTIE grabs the zine.
MATTIE: Hm?

PANEL 4: Close up of the zine in MATTIE's hands. The title is STEVEN, THE CRAB DIRECTLY BELOW ME, IS A PIECE OF SHIT!
MATTIE: Haha okay this is pretty good
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damnyouwillis.bsky.social's user avatar
David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
thinking of that time i found an abandoned transformers wiki on wikia that was just a bunch of terrible and incomplete lists of character names, sitting back, and deciding i could fix this wiki by writing a comprehensive Donny Finkleberg Robot-Master page.
tfwiki.net's user avatarTransformers Wiki @tfwiki.net ⋅ 2d
#DidYouKnow we just turned 20 years old? Yes, really! The original incarnation of TFWiki was originally founded on Wikicities on this day in 2005. Thanks to everyone who has supported us over the years!
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David M Willis! @damnyouwillis.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
today in #9chickweedlane i learned the cartoonist definitely forgot the 2023 storyline in which mary showed up again and amos didn't recognize or remember her and mary was very clearly into him, and also her hair is just Juliette's Hair But Black today, rather than Mary's curly hair
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jubster.bsky.social's user avatar
Jubs is auADHD @jubster.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
@damnyouwillis.bsky.social Well that's interesting
josiahhawthorne.bsky.social's user avatarJosiah Hawthorne @josiahhawthorne.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Today I learned...
Psalty's Salvation Celebration: The Movie, starring a young Bethany Joy Lenz
Headline:
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