Becky.
Becky Becky Becky….
…you stupid!
Sure, Joyce is cute af, but she’s with Dots, and never felt “that way” about you from the beginning.
Dinah is an AMAZING gf! Learn to be grateful for what you have (until now) before you lose it and get slapped upside the head by the comment section! xD
People will feel how they feel. I think Becky really does love Dina, but I don’t blame her for being hurt by this too. She’s got a lot of big emotion right now that she’s got to work her way through. Hopefully she won’t permanently mess up her relationship with Dina on the way. (Also, I totally don’t blame Dina for being hurt over this either)
That’s a very fair point, she is experiencing Big Emotions right now, let’s just hope she deal with them healthily, and make sure Dinah knows she is loved and not just a consolation prize. 🙂
The nebulous passing of time makes it hard to pin down QC ages really. Hanners was 25 at some point, I think by inference Faye is older than that, and Claire and Clinton were 23/21 at some point as well. Sam is a teenager. Liz is 19.
Hard to use that as any firm reference of course but if I had to guess, the ‘original crew’ of like Marten/Dora/Faye would be around 30 at this point. Elliot might be like… 25? 26? At least?
No, you are correct. Dora is older than Faye and Marten, and Faye used to poke fun at her about it in the past on occasion, and Sven’s older than her, naturally.
I wanna say Hanners is older than Marten, but only narrowly. It’s not terribly clear where most of them are, age-wise, outside of obvious ones like Claire being a little younger than Marten, and Clinton being her younger brother. I assume Elliot’s probably early-mid 20s, because he can’t really be any younger than that and plausibly be a bouncer.
I had just assumed that the breakup was Jeph’s way of writing Elliot out of the story, as he had done with Angus (so?) and Cosette before. It hadn’t even occurred to me that we might get to see Elliot actually pursue this as a storyline. I would love to see that! Unfortunately Elliot’s anxiety has only deepened since his introduction (and it was already kind of bad then) with no inclination of taking any concrete actions to improve, which is why I assumed we just saw his last appearance.
Hopefully Becky will recognize this Now or Never moment and turn things around before she loses Dina.
I don’t see him leaving the cast so easily, especially since his problem has been mentioned over and over and his need for therapy has been hinted at several times, rather than just “he needs to go/it doesn’t seem to work.”
I assume he’ll make some progress and then get “fixed” in time for his next arc, like Dora making a passing attempt at being better and then getting with Tai in a healthy relationship and suddenly everything is good.
Might be a little cynical, but character growth tends to happen in discrete implements and as a means to plot convenience in QC. :p
What probably helps Elliot is that he’s got more connections than those characters; he’s neighbours with Roko, friends with Yay/Renee/Brun, etc. So there’s a few storylines he can be used for down the road.
Yeah, I miss those days. Lots more indie creators not tied to a web publishing label like Webtoon or Tapas, lots more freeform stuff, crossovers and outright fourth wall breaking… Of course, the downside was that you had lots more series go on terminal hiatus, and if there was a crossover included with that, when one series went away from the web entirely, the other’s archive often got completely borked if the storyline was meant to be canon.
Schlock mercenary was legendary in that respect. For a while at least.
The pure number of crossover chars turning up in the background, usually but not always accompanied by a foonote and link, sent me sooo far rhrough the webcomic space.
“best” is a hard thing to pinpoint, innit?
Best for Becky? Dina could be more supportive in this situation, of course.
Best for her own self-worth? I´d say she did well – leaving the door somewhat open, but making clear its on Becky how to go on.
I´m more than double her age and probably whould have tried to save the relationship by swallowing my own pride, at least for a while.
But where I a non-involved friend, I would encourage myself to do exactly what she did. Preserve thyself.
Feel this! I check DoA daily, but I tend to let QC stack up. I saw the comment and I was like “Ahhh! WHAT?!” and had to immediately go catch up. Luckily I was only like 2 weeks behind.
Dina has made a cameo in QC before, it would be cool to see her venture into Secret Bakery or the bar that Elliot bounces at and see him in DoA. Unless Jeph and Willis talked about this I don’t think that will happen, but it would be great if it did!
Or maybe Dina disappears for a while, Becky freaks out and realizes she may have lost Dina forever, Dina shows up again, and Willis changes Dina’s speech bubble.
Becky: DINA! Omg, where WERE you???
Dina: I went to many places off campus to think. Among which, I spent a considerable time at a bakery, where I felt compelled to buy soda bread.
Considering the different in time flow rates between the comics, Dina could very well go to QC, spend several weeks there, and come back the same day she left. Nobody would even notice she was gone.
Who even has pitchforks anymore? I bet if you look around your house or apartment, you don’t even have a pitchfork OR torches! Kids these days, unprepared for spontaneous mobs when the mad scientists make monsters..
Yep. Way back in the second session of Leslie’s class. The poster’s been a consistent part of Dorothy’s room decor since way back, though it’s not covered by the persepolis tag, and I’m too lazy to trawl the archives to figure out when it first appeared.
I hope not.
The best definition of “tradition I ever read was: “Peer pressure by lots of long-dead people.”
Given the age of this comic and the excitability of the commentariat, I assume and hope most folks who started that still are alive. Posting, even.
I mean. Yeah, Becky. Sorry. You are in fact the problem, and self-deprecation doesn’t fix anything. At some point you’ve actually gotta work on yourself and dig into your issues a bit.
Qube, my person of indeterminate gender, you have that wrong.
“self flagellation” is masturbatory.
However, without the “self”, it certainly is not. Just ask anyone from the BDSM community. They will tell you all about consensual flagellation between partners.
1. I’m a dude, but I also won’t hold it against you if in the future you wish to open a rebuttal with “Qube, you ignorant slut”. who doesn’t love Dan Aykroyd references
2. you are technically correct (and depending on who you ask, that is the best kind of correct) but I tend to write how I talk and as worded it rolls off the tongue more easily- that extra “self” makes the whole sentence lurch like you missed a step on a staircase. intolerable vibrations.
I trusted that the savvy reader would be able to pick up from context which one I meant, as you clearly did ;V
I really really hope this isn’t the end for them forever. But if it ain’t, it’s gonna take a whooooole lot of time, a whole lot of work, and a whole lot of growth on Becky’s part.
i’m sure the fact that dina isn’t emoting very much means she’s not actually mad and sad and crashing out and therefore it’s on her to be the perfect reasonable one in this situation. i’m sure it’s perfectly fair for everyone reading to assume that dina feels nothing strongly in this instance
It’s brutal reading the comments on that comic where everyone is expressing confidence in the stability and longevity of Dina and Becky’s relationship and asserting that Dina is no longer just a rebound for Becky.
Look, my opinion of this comment section is pretty low, but even I trust them to understand that Dinah is generally very stoic and that just because she’s not outwardly upset doesn’t mean she’s a robot.
DoA Dina isn’t stoic, she’s wise. And really that’s the single dramatic personality difference between IW Dina and DoA Dina- in IW Dina never stopped being naive and idealistic and being heartbroken when others didn’t live up to ideals and beating herself up for not being able to live up to ideals. DoA Dina has internalized a broader understanding of life as a whole, and while she continues to have difficulties with interpersonal nuance, on a broader existential level she *gets it* in a way that many people never do in all their lives. And I’m sure this comes from DoA Dina having her parents more active in her life (I can’t remember what her relationship to her parents was in IW) and demonstrating their commitment to her, giving her better people to model herself after and a window on the wider adult world through observing their interactions with it, and supporting her in pursuing her own intellectual interests in ways that help her learn more about what the world and life is really like.
Dina has gained a small amount of experience with people in her life, but she’s not fucking Buddha. Autistics are not some kind of mutant Well of Wisdom. I assure you, Dina has feels. And she’s really no more experienced in dealing with them by herself than Becky is.
I fuckin’ love Dina. What an unexpected and fun reaction that makes perfect sense for her character. I hope we get to explore more about her beyond her relationship with Becky now, it’s been a while!
I think at this point becky has earned the right to feel hurt while also not thinking dina is the consolation. Feelings dont just go away like that and despite showing up like 10 years ago for us, thats like a couple months for them, definitely less than a year.
And dina is also allowed to feel hurt by this reaction. Im hoping dina sees this logically and supports becky thru this, as a testiment to what she has accomplished, even though she is not entitled to do so.
Yeah. It’s a REALLY crappy situation all around here, and yet… Nobody is really at fault. Becky loves Joyce; she always has and she probably always will, and since Joyce hasn’t really done anything to poison/destroy the love Becky has for her, these sorts of loves are really, really hard to move on from. (Speaking from personal experience here.) Meanwhile, from Joyce’s side, not being into Becky is also not her fault; you either like someone or you don’t, it’s as simple as that.
And for Dina, she went into this knowing that Becky was coming off a rebound, but it still must hurt knowing that despite being your best, it still isn’t good enough to become Becky’s Number 1. Some people can accept being someone’s secondary love (it crops up too for couples where one partner is like super duper devoted to their business or art or some other passion or cause), but for a lot of people (myself included), knowing that you will always come second in your beloved’s eyes is a dealbreaker.
Becky didn’t need more consequences! Becky has done nothing except be life’s punching bag! She’s like… mildly annoying at worst and I don’t even think she’s really that 99% of the time!
In an alternate future where Joyce turns up in a few seconds and kisses Becky.
Like, she hasn’t done it, but she absolutely would. Crowing over Dorothy losing, cheating on Dina, she’s hung up on Joyce in a way that’s not healthy or prompting healthy choices. The only thing stopping her right this minute is that Joyce isn’t into her.
I’m pretty sure those of us who wanted consequences were expecting them to be more people calling out Joyce and Dorothy for their cheating and other shitty behavior.
Yeah, I’m REALLY confused by anyone who thinks Becky did something wrong (except having an emotional breakdown tangentially involving Dina). She didn’t cheat, not even emotionally. Consequences would be for Jorothy, not Becnah.
Emotionally supporting your reeling girlfriend is behavior for “nursemaids” with no self-respect, is it?
This is not the time for Dina to demand answers from Becky. In an ideal world, Dina would help Becky regain equilibrium and then have an honest conversation when both their heads were on straight. If even then Becky can’t let go, a break up is warranted.
This isn’t an ideal world, though, and Dina can’t see past her own pain.
They’re both fucking up.
I think being expected to comfort your girlfriend because their friend who turned them down is now also dating girl is neither ideal nor healthy. Kind of seems incredibly bad for the relationship.
I mean. Becky didn’t expect to be comforted. That’s why she said “I should not be talking about this” and left (should she have went to Dina in the first place? Yeah probably not but I think it’s pretty clear she wasn’t thinking straight). Dina followed her here. I think it’s pretty clear she’s also upset (understandable!) & lashing out because of that, and it’s weird to me how many people are saying this was unequivocally the right thing to do, when it’s actually a little more messy, like interpersonal issues usually are. (Usual Disclaimer of “I think it’s actually great for characters to have flaws, this is a huge positive” like I’m not attacking Dina here or whatever.)
I said this elsewhere, but it’s hard for me to see any of this as “lashing out”. If anything she’s lashing out at herself. She said somethings that could hurt, but nothing angry or mean.
Oh, I was talking about Dina, not Becky! “You’re the problem” just seemed like a sort of cruel thing to say. Though one of your comments made me think about the miscommunication that’s sort of going on re: what the topic actually is, so I think I’d maybe take that back? It makes more “sense” in Dina’s context talking about being a rebound (like, it isn’t /her/ not being good enough, it’s Becky’s hang-up, which like,good on her for recognizing) – but not in Becky’s current state of self-loathing, where she’s absolutely talking (or at least thinking) about MORE than just her relationship to Dina.
It’s just adding insult to injury, because not only were you not her first choice, if something changed you’d be dropped for them immediately. And you have to comfort them over that choice.
Even if Becky is shoving her away out of fear and trauma, this is an incredibly shitty situation to be put in. She’s not going to bury her staggering disappointment and lack of confidence in the relationship just because Becky is hurting, nor should she. Becky should’ve just said to talk about it later because she’s having a tough time, but she can’t cause she’s an extremely fucked up child.
Becky literally told Dina she shouldn’t talk to her about this, left Dina’s room, and went back to her own room.
Becky in no way tried to put this on Dina.
Dina followed Becky, despite being told they shouldn’t talk about it.
And if Dina’s motive had been to try to comfort Becky, I’d be a lot more understanding and empathetic toward Dina than I am (I still am…just not at much as I would have been)
Instead, it appears Dina chased down Becky to question her, to try to understand what this meant for *Dina.* To basically imply, “The math of your feelings is insulting to me.”
And as a fellow Autistic person…I totally get it! I’ve been there, I’ve made the mistake got the T-shirt.
But I still think it’s a mistake on Dina’s part. Becky rightly identified that her hurt feelings weren’t rational and she needed to be by herself for awhile. Dina came – not to comfort, but – to confront her. So yeah, emotionally expressive Becky said some stupid things too (like “If you’re just going to break up with me, then just do it.”
I have a lot of sympathy for both girls. But my own need to be left alone when my feelings are too intense to be managed safely, and my own frustration when that stated need is violated for someone else’s (secondary) need….means I’m feeling a bit more for Becky here, than for Dina.
Becky’s the center of pain here…if Dina wanted comfort, she should have found someone toward the outside of the circle of pain…not pushed it on the person experiencing the initial hurt.
Understandable – and great, realistic writing! – but the greater mistake in my view.
I’ve been wondering for years now whether Sarah’s ominous “You know you’re probably Becky’s rebound, right” declaration was ever getting follow-up. Kinda glad to see that loop closing. Not because I’m glad to see Becky and Dina in a rocky patch, but because it’s been like an itch in the back of my mind that I’ve always wondered if it would ever get addressed.
I think she thought internally that she’d gotten over Joyce, then seeing Dorothy kissing her hit her with so much jealousy and resentment that it awakened old feelings. Stuff like this is never clean.
Meh, there’s no law that says you have to be “rational” or “restrained” when interacting with art.
I just hope people are kind to each other. Otherwise they can whoop and holler or crash out in the comments, I think anywhere along that spectrum is fine.
Is it weird that I still kind of believe it’s bulletproof? I guess I won’t know for sure for a little bit. But the idea of these guys would break up doesn’t quite compute. Surely it would be resolved somehow? The alt text seems kind of damning though.
Feels a bit like a ‘break’ point, whether or not it’s mendable or not is up to them.
This might also finally get Dorothy and Joyce out of the love bubble considering Joyce will (maybe?) feel guilty and Dorothy has to room with Becky, so they might make some attempt to hep the two patch it up.
I suspect that’s where the plot, broadly, is going, yes. Dorothy and Joyce coming out of the 24-hour new fresh love love bubble, seeing what this has done to their friend group, and then going out to Try And Fix It (with heavily mixed results)
There’s a certain type of hurt you can feel where all you want to do is to try and make everyone understand what a lost cause you are. That you’re horrible. It gets amplified when the hurt you have makes you say shitty stuff; you can be aware in there that you’re being awful. But it all kind of rolls together.
Regrettably, in college or late high school is about when it ramps the fuck up , when you are probably the least prepared for it, also not in therapy, and in beckys case, perhaps we could say, has not had a loving family background providing support. It’s like how when you scrape your knee as a kid, its still inside the first couple of hundred times you’ve ever hurt this bad.
Mind you, I aint on one side or another. Dina don’t deserve that. It ain’t Beckys fault shes hurting over stuff she aint got the tools to get over.
Mostly I think I’m glad to be out of my 20s. Poor everybody, he says, enjoying the plotline immensely.
What she intended to happen happened. Without her actions it would likely have been delayed until Joyce’s bond with Joe was stronger or had run its natural course. What Amber did not do was consider all the second order consequences.
So her blame is not misplaced.
But what does she do now? Will she collect her Walky as her trash goblin due? Will she act out of guilt and have Walky tossed out on his ear when he comes calling because she doesn’t deserve nice things? Or will she set her amazing mind to fixing things for Dina, without of course allowing for the secondary consequences?
Joyce does not owe Becky reciprocation of her feelings. Joyce is not obligated to stay away from the woman she’s in love with because Becky’s in love with her. Becky, on the other hand, does owe Dina not being treated as a poor substitute for the girl she’s really in love with.
Alright, feel like the villainization of Joyce is getting to be a little much. This was a shoe that always needed to drop for Becky and Dina, just… not like this.
Darn you Joyce! Out here puppeteering Becky into saying crappy things because she’s hurt and upset. Out here telling Becky over and over that you’d totally get with her if you liked vag and then not immediately rushing to break her and Dina up as soon as you figured out you do! Darn youuuu!
When the kiss first happened, I knew there was gonna be turbulence between becky and dina but I didn’t think it would actually lead to a break-up. Now I’m not so sure. (I hope if they do, it falls on halloween…)
I mean, it was always gonna be an issue for them, kisses or not. Becky is still holding a torch for her old crush and Dina knows that no matter what she does she’s not Joyce and not the first choice. This just happened to be the catalyst.
Until Becky can finally move past attaching all her worth to Joyce’s attachment to her or lack there of everything then every relationship of hers will be in danger of this very same occurrence. Becky cannot give them the attention they need from a spouse and a spouse shouldn’t have an obligation to reassure a significant other whose whole hang up is being into somebody not you.
It’s a very tough and sad situation to be in, but if it’s a break up I cannot blame Dina in the slightest.
Kind of expecting a fakeout. That line by itself could really mean a lot of things depending on what she says next. Which means it probably isn’t the obvious one.
THIS is what I was saying yesterday. However hard this is for Becky, however sad and emotional it is for her, and however relatable that heartbreak and trauma is, and IT IS: it is not Dina’s responsibility, at the end of the day. Of course, as Becky’s girlfriend, it is good of Dina to support and help her. But at the end of the day, Dina is allowed to decide, temporarily or permanently, that Becky’s emotions are not her responsibility. Especially when Dina has done NOTHING to impact Becky’s emotions about Joyce/Dorothy.
I hope these two make up. I hope they both get a breather and talk this out. They are my favorite couple in this comic. This sucks, so much, for Becky to go through, and I hope she gets help in getting through the emotional/mental turmoil. But I also support Dina looking at this situation and saying, “I have done nothing wrong in this situation. This is something Becky has to tackle about herself. “
I don’t think it’s quite what you meant but “I have done nothing wrong in this situation. This is something Becky has to tackle about herself.“ is kind of a horrible approach to relationships.
Plenty of things where a partner might need comfort or support aren’t due to their partner having done something wrong.
Even in this situation this isn’t just about Becky still having feelings for Joyce, which it’s fair to say Dina shouldn’t have to deal with. It’s about her trauma about abandonment. About her fear of things like sexuality changes, which could in her mind render so much of the horrible things that happened to her pointless. Even Joyce being supported by her dad instead of attacked – that’s part of the: “It’s me. The problem is me.”
Nah it’s actually find to draw boundaries about what you will and won’t subject yourself to. If Dina is hurt too much by this, it’s fine for her to decide Becky should sort it out herself.
It isn’t supportive, but sometimes you have to protect your own feelings and wellness rather than supporting your partner at the expense of yourself. It’s a difficult line to draw, because requires a selfishness we generally don’t allow women in particular, but there’s nothing horrible about it.
Becky is being a jerk here, but it’s a reasonable reaction to what has happened to her. She’s spinning out, I’d be spinning the fuck out too, but she needs help from people who can do so without sinking down into the darkness with her.
That is not what I meant. And yes, having Dina support Becky would be good. That’s part of relationships: even if the current problem stems from something in your partner’s life, good partners support each other.
But while saying that, an important element to this is that Becky isn’t just upset about a personal thing that, if Dina ignored, wouldn’t hugely impact Dina. Like, if Dina just said “Whatever, your problem” about Becky having a fight with Walky and spiraling about it [as an admittedly unlikely example]. This event directly impacts Dina negatively as well. It hits at Dina’s looming insecurities as well. We saw how hurt and horrified she looked when Amber explained things to her. We know that she feared this day, from Sarah talking to her. And frankly, I think it’s a little unfair for people who understand that Becky should have space imperfectly because she is swimming in her insecurities, are telling Dina to do the ideal “partners should support each other” as Dina is ALSO facing a huge insecurity around Becky and Joyce. Just because Dina is being more quiet and less outwardly expressive about it doesn’t mean she isn’t hurting. Especially given her shocked reaction to Becky renouncing God, then learning why from Amber, having Becky give her no attempt at an explanation, and then coming to talk about it and having Becky not even address her directly and admit she is the problem.
Yes, ideally, Dina would set aside her immediate emotions to bolster Becky. Also ideally, Becky wouldn’t put her in this position in the first place. Obviously this is not an ideal situation for ANYONE. But Dina handling the confirmation of her own insecurities by confirming the truth that this situation between the two of them—in terms of their relationship— stems from Becky is: a) true, and b) well within the realms of Dina getting her own “check out”response. And in this situation, which impacts them BOTH, Dina has done nothing wrong, but is still stuck having it hurt her as collateral damage. That is the situation I was referring to. The current one. Not any hypothetical “my partner is having a random problem/emotional reaction/hard time, but I just don’t feel like caring about them.”
so many people in this comments section seem to only be able to relate to a character acting mentally ill, when that character has exactly the same mental illness that they do. Their blorbos can do no wrong, because everything their blorbo does is “completely understandable,” in the sense that they can directly, personally relate to it; but, when a character they aren’t able to easily and directly project themselves onto starts behaving mentally ill, that character is a mean, heartless bongo who deserves criticism and correction.
Like shit, I don’t get why empathy for everybody is so hard.
…is this…for me…? I really don’t feel like commenting about Becky not noticing or responding to Dina’s multiple attempts at affirmation seeking is proof that I cannot empathize with Becky. Weird comment to put this take under.
Well this is terrible. Awful, for both Dina and Becky. I completely understand why Dina would be pissed, realizing that she was just “the secondary” because Becky’s feelings for Joyce neither worked out the way she wanted or went away. And she is correct. This is Becky’s emotional problem to work out. I hope she realizes that solving that problem can involve seeking professional help, and I hope it doesn’t keep Dina and Becky apart for too long.
Back at the beginning of the semester (which was basically Act 1 of DoA Season 2), Becky listed all the great things happening in her life, including being with Dina. You should NEVER say that sort of thing during Act 1.
Yeah, “I shouldn’t have said it out loud” isn’t the solution to your crippling fear of abandonment, Becky. You gotta get therapy.
Also, that being your only response is [going to come across to Dina, at least] as confirmation that you’re indeed still into Joyce and Dina was just consolation. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that “if Joyce could be X for Dorothy, why couldn’t she for me” just wounded your pride and struck at your fear of change/abandonment. I hope that’s the case even if it takes some therapy for you to realize it–and if Dina breaks up with you in the meantime I hope you can win her back by explaining this (she’s pretty rational so perhaps you can).
I think there was an actual comment, though I don’t remember where, but that still can just be a character’s opinion. Ruth and probably even Jennifer do seem to have been helped.
Fully extrapolating from my own myriad of experiences, but with full regard to the fact that Becky absolutely NEEDS a wider support system and a set of trusted mental health professionals that can help her process the incredible amount of deeply ingrained trauma that she has gone through, IMO 95% of the time going to any school counselor and telling them that you’re explicitly dealing with suicidal ideation (intrusive or otherwise) is usually a one-way ticket to some of the worst, actively unhelpful mental health services you’ll ever experience.
From admittedly a sample size of 1, going to a (different) state university’s on-campus mental health services with suicidal ideation and a plan was a one-way ticket to really good supportive care and a lifelong functioning CBT practice, for me at least. I didn’t even get meds prescribed when I was really pushy about not wanting them (even though there were full-on psychiatric services available if necessary, just the CBT stuff and pretty good regular outpatient therapy which fortunately worked amazingly well for me. And this was back in the late 1990s when the stigma was worse than now.
In my experience, it’s a real mixed bag. The first counselor I saw through the on-campus counseling center was shitty and discouraged me from wanting to seek services. There was another counselor who facilitated a group I was in, and she was good there, but I heard from a number of people who saw her as their therapist that there were some real issues. (At the time, she was basically the designated LGBTQ+ therapist, so I got comments from multiple sources.)
Then I got people who immediately tried to refer to to off-campus stuff because the counseling center was really overwhelmed, ignoring that some of these places would be pretty difficult for me to get to (no car, limited time window between classes when taking bus routes could take 45+ min to get there) and I was worried about cost.
That said, when I was at my most suicidal, I did see an okay counselor who referred me to the psychiatry center (before, I was getting meds through the primary care medical services on campus), and a social worker there was so incredibly kind that I still think about it. Granted, this wasn’t lasting because I was starting the process of withdrawing for the semester, but it did make a difference for me.
Totes fair, and I’m genuinely very happy you were able to get that long-term support you needed, like truly. I think that level of care and follow-through should always be the end result of good mental health service, and it’s genuinely incredibly nice to hear when that actually happens.
I will cop to the fact that my spectacularly bad run with using mental health services makes it hard for me to not paint the whole industry as abjectly worse than it might be in reality (shoutout to my last therapist for telling me “I was doing the therapy wrong” for sitting in the sofa chair in all our sessions and not on the chaise lounge), and I will also cop that being financially insecure, black and NB has also probably affected how medical practitioners have treated me, so all I can really say without having to divulge my full mental health history in public is that I’ve been in therapy on and off since the 7th grade for MDD, and like, straight up, there is 0 way to talk about suicidal thoughts or experiences these days (even in the past tense) that does not immediately flag you as a potential threat to others or to yourself, and that in of itself is such a double edged sword.
Emotionally when the best case scenario is spent having condescending conversations where you have to use borderline-“unalive” language to just to prove you have an unreasonable emotional detachment to your OWN trauma, and at worst you risk your personal autonomy stripped away via an involuntary trip psychiatric hospital, it’s *incredibly* hard thread that needle in a way that actually gets you the help you need, y’know?
Bringing this all back to the comic, I DO think Becky needs help, and I DO think that she would probably benefit from getting actually professional help, but I do also wince when I see the general response to someone in active in-the-moment crisis be “just go see a therapist/school counselor”, because I know just how BAD it can reinforce those same negative feelings when the “professional” does not have the tools, resources, and worst case scenario, the care to help you.
Totally fair, and I have had friends who’ve had INCREDIBLY bad encounters with the mental health care system in the US (especially in the rural hell I grew up in).
Becky is probably in a kind of 60/40 kind of situation, being a white woman lesbian in Indiana in 202X, with a frission of “she’s already been in the news as a victim, and it’s reasonably likely that every campus employee is going to give her the white-glove experience to avoid bad publicity”.
First: extra big Internet gesture of support for I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams.
Second: complicating all of this is that Ruth specifically had a good experience, and it’s the one we saw the most of.
Willis is definitely trying to portray therapy as more of a mixed bag, but Amber is such a specific case: having DID, which is more complicated and scary to your average therapist than depression, but also having been sent to therapists by her abusive father, who wouldn’t exactly have sought the best possible matches for her, especially since he didn’t take her anxiety or PTSD seriously.
So for the average reader, “book Becky a room in the same hospital that helped Ruth” seems like the most obvious outcome of getting her professional help, and that makes it easy to root for, even as folks with more complicated experiences with out nation’s mental healthcare keep speaking up to say it’s not that simple.
IIRC, Amber was specifically sent to martial arts classes instead of therapy by her abusive father. Unless she went recently, I don’t think she’s been at all.
Yeah, I was going to say the same. (I just wanted to be able to link to the strip and am technically working, so…)
I do think she might have gone (possibly being strong armed into it) during the timeskip, but probably only a couple times, and found it lacking.
She definitely also did that… but I think the “Indiana therapists aren’t great” came from Walky repeating something he’d heard from Amber. I extrapolated, but perhaps incorrectly!
That’s when the other two Dinas swoop in, and they slash you like this and this, spilling your intestines. My point is you’re alive when they start to eat you.
Actually so excited about this. I’ve been wanting a storyline from Dina outside of her being Becky’s girlfriend for a while now – if a breakup(?) can get us there, great. Also great potential story stuff for Becky, even if it looks really dire (who does she even have to turn to?). I do love when characters I like are miserable it’s just compelling
It’ll also be nice to develop BECKY outside of her relationships, she basically went from a crush on a girl to a relationship with a different girl, what’s a solo Becky to do?
While that’s true about romantic relationships specifically, Becky already has connections to other characters that have gotten focus – Leslie, Robin, Dorothy & Joyce & her dad ofc come to mind. Dina has other friends, but storywise (outside of the Becky/Dina relationship) she’s often played a supporting role or been a comedy relief.
Not that I don’t want more for Becky, I like Becky, but I REALLY want to see more of Dina.
I mean Leslie would probably be the perfect person for her to turn to right now. She had a similar upbringing and has almost certainly experienced a similar-ish situation to this
Not opposed to it, especially since they’ve found mutual new found respect for each other’s company, but I think we’d need more of them together because I am not getting a vibe of romantic capabilities as they are now.
Oh holy knife twist.
Your childhood crush rejects you and it turns out its NOT because they’re straight.
And then your girlfriend leaves you and dates the physical representation of testosterone.
Why don’t Dorothy start inviting Joyce over for door sock sessions while we’re at it.
I’m operating on a reasonable% chance that this is actually what Dina is doing, and it’s so self-evident to her that it’s the right thing to do, that she didn’t need to explain it on the way out, and thus, by the time she gets back with help, Becky will have fucking disappeared, fueling even more drama.
Good for Dina, I know Becky is going through it, I know her life’s been tough and she’s suffered a lot. But expecting Dina to swallow up her own hurt and be the most perfect, rational, stoic rock for Becky is ridiculous.
I mean, Carla and Charlie are pretty much already broken up. Carla doesn’t have the power to divest her parents’ entire company from all of their defense contracts, and I feel like that’s clearly what it’s gonna take for Charlie to be able to ethically accept a relationship with her?
I think it’s a little more complicated than that. Becky has shown deep investment in this relationship for a while and I suspect understands intellectually that her connection with Dina is way more real than yearning for an idealized image of Joyce. What we’re seeing now is that logic clash with how Becky has tangled up her emotions by tethering her self-worth to Joyce.
At least it’s all out in the open now. I never was too attached to Becky and Dina as a couple (Dina belongs with her true loves, Ruth and Gino), so I’m not especially torn up or worried about the idea of them breaking up. Becky spending some time single might even be good for her, who knows.
I’ll answer this one, sure. I think these rumor are bogus, because they rely on two key words: “a” and “secret”. There’s a degree of plurality here, in that I’ve been Normal™ about several background characters over the many many years I’ve been polluting this website. In regards to the “secret” aspect of the rumors, I have always been very open about which characters I’m Normal™ about, and I’ve been met with very little surprise each time. For instance, Norville and Meredith are two of my favorite extras, and I’ve always been very transparent about that fact. Hopefully, this helps quell the rumor mill somewhat. I know people love their parasocial speculation.
Listen, I’m gonna write this quote into the article, but it’s going to be out of context AND out of order so it says what I need it to say. You understand.
I agree. I’m really grateful to see Dina conclude this isn’t a good relationship for her, and act accordingly.
I do really hope Becky seeks help, and doesn’t die from this BUT both of those are also Becky’s responsibility to take care of herself, and not Dina’s responsibility to sacrifice herself because someone else is being self destructive. “please accept me as a substitute, and accept a relationship so that you have comfort from the emotions you’re not dealing with or processing” is … really heckin destructive to both the self and the other, in different ways. (Its been very few folks here saying that they’d hoped Dina would self sacrifice here but, it… reminds me of people telling me I should have dated a boy I didn’t like because he tried to end himself when I said no thank you, and that’s… its horrible to live in a society where the expectation is that you’ll give up your own sexuality and ability to form relationships to patch another person’s emotional holes and deny them the opportunity to rise up to the challenge and grow. Being autistic and appearing woman doesn’t mean you exist to act as a warm body to comfort others through their shit.)
I feel like this is a really soothing juxtaposition to Dorothy/Joyce, where I have a sinking feeling that they primarily got together because Dorothy was clearly being self destructive, and Joyce decided that fixing that by giving Dorothy a relationship was more important than anything else.
Love the comment, Fish! Well, not about the people pressuring you, obviously. My condolences about that.
Part of growing and becoming a better person is learning how to take care of yourself, managing your emotions, and being responsible. Trauma and mental illness can make this a lot harder but you still have to do it or you will only end up hurting yourself and others.
Kindness, support AND consequences are all important!
I don’t think there’s a way to tell Becky that she’s making this worse than it needs to be without being this blunt. Especially from Dina, who Becky knows “feels things more strongly, and has trouble expressing it.”
…Just in case anyone is finding the discussion triggering, so to speak, I thought perhaps this list could bear reposting. You know me… I speak in lists. List-making is my thing.
Some of these free support services do have direct connections to police and emergency medical responders. Members of vulnerable populations might want to ask that up front, or sift through these lists to find services that explicitly deny connections with law enforcement.
Subject-specific “help lines” around the world:
findahelpline.com
insighttimer.com/help-now
International support network for people who question their sensory perceptions:
intervoiceonline.org/national-networks#content
Crisis and mental health support in the UK and Ireland:
samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-having-difficult-time/other-sources-help
Social services and supports around the USA for everyday needs:
helpguide.org/find-help
findhelp.org
211.org (service referral guides in every US State)
(Or 211.ca for community support navigation in Canada)
For help paying bills in hard times:
needhelppayingbills.com
Legal Aid in every state:
lawhelp.org
US Immigration Legal Aid:
immi.org
Peer-run “warm lines” (volunteer listening ears) In the USA:
warmline.org
stage.nami.org/NAMI/media/NAMI-Media/Helpline/NAMI-National-HelpLine-WarmLine-Directory.pdf
power2u.org/consumer-run-statewide-organizations
Public Health Agency crisis lines across the USA:
councilforhelplines.org/member-organizations
More than that, though, NG, you are kind. You are a kind person. I know you try real hard to be gentle in this forum. That means a lot. It actually means so much.
(I think maybe there have been a few misunderstandings between us, over the years. But you keep showing up, with consistent words of kindness and encouragement and support. I hope you know how valuable that is.)
I hope you know how valuable and valued and important you are. I do hope you know that. That your voice adds value to the community. I feel like you keep showing up to give support to others. That’s rare.
Didn’t post much so I’ll give my own two thoughts.
Becky is obviously someone who feels her feelings deeply and has suffered a lot of loss. She clearly fears paradigm shifts and her best friend not loving her the way she loves her is a huge sticking point for her. She is probably not acting rationally or thoughtfully with how she speaks or acts right now.
However
I remember long ago reading something someone said that stuck with me. My Mental Illness/Trauma may “explain” my actions. But it doesn’t always EXCUSE my actions. Certainly I, and by an extension Becky can extend extra patience to her knowing how deeply rooted her trauma is. But also it feels wrong to completely discount how Becky’s words make Dina feel. Even when I’m spiraling. Even when I’m having a panic attack, I’m still responsible for the words I say. For the way I make those around me feel. Especially my loved ones. Dina is well within her rights to find her outbursts offensive and hurtful, even with the knowledge of what Becky is going through.
Personally I think it’s good to get this all out in the open. There’s been this air hanging over the couple since it began that Dina is Becky’s silver medal and both of them have been kinda pushing past it without confronting it. But now that it’s in the forefront they can have an earnest conversation and hopefully reach an understanding.
like it *does* matter that the hurt wasn’t intentional! but it still happened nonetheless, and if you don’t recognize that, it’s too easy to fall into the trap of “being right” instead of “caring for the other person”
My uncle, who survived intense, life-hijacking Bipolar: “It’s not always my fault, but it is always my responsibility.” As in, even when the illness was the cause of a lash-out or other hurtful behavior, it was still his job to take care of the fallout/impact on himself and others.
this is the hardest, but most important, lesson everybody needs to internalize in the process of becoming an adult, whether mentally ill or not. The fact that fault and responsibility can be so divorced from one another, and that the second thing is the one that’s truly important, is something that some people go all the way to their graves without ever really internalizing.
Intent isn’t magic and trauma isn’t an excuse, but at the same time, Becky’s not lashing out here. I’d have trouble even calling anything she’s said an outburst.
But then I don’t see Becky thinking in terms of “Dina is Becky’s silver medal” here, rather than in terms of “everyone leaves me, Dina will too”.
If Becky being with her is proof of a God and Joyce dating a woman is proof of a Lack of a God, I cannot really fault Dina from taking this as Becky still prioritizing Joyce over her. It would be like your husband being distraught that his ex-wife is getting remarried. You’d be supportive to a point but you gotta think “why do you still care so much? You’re married to ME not HER.”
Becky probably didn’t think through what she’s saying, but what she’s saying is implying some hurtful things to Dina. And even if Becky said them as emotional outbursts it doesn’t stop it from implying something that Dina has been worried about for the brunt of their relationship.
It not being lashing out or an outburst is actually worse in this context. If she was just lashing out I could say she’s saying careless hurtful stuff cuz she’s emotional. If she’s not then it basically shows where Becky’s priorities are.
Yep. It’s actually hurtful for people to accuse you of leaving you. I know shes speaking out of abandonment issues so I cut her slack but from dina’s perspective I can see her feeling like it disregards all the effort she put into making Becky feel comfortable and safe.
Actually, it’s kind of wild that you’re the first person I’ve seen point this out in a direct way. At the end of the day, if your partner tells you “you’re going to leave me,” there’s no way for them to not hear the implied truth of “I don’t trust you.”
Becky may have the best existing explanations for being hideously insecure about this particular anxiety, and Dina may be the member of the cast who puts the least stock in the murky implications lurking underneath the thing that was directly said; but, even if Dina was unrealistically mature, and fully prepared for dealing with the situation of having a partner this plagued by serious mental illness, she still can’t reasonably hear what Becky is saying, without knowing through cold logic, that “you’re my second choice” and “I don’t trust you” are implicit truths inherent to Becky having the feelings that she does.
Like, if my partner said this stuff to me, I would know they don’t mean it, and I would know it’s a result of their agitated state; but, I’m 35, and my partner and I have been exclusively dealing with mentally ill peer groups for 15-20 years, apiece. Knowing they don’t mean it, doesn’t mean I don’t think it, and there’s no way I could possibly think those specific things – even knowing they are false – without being deeply hurt by them, even if I knew with complete certainty, that said feelings were transient states from which my partner would eventually recover.
Killing people with a bat? I don’t know why people are always acting like I’m so aggressive, but I would never violently murder the entirety of the Steven Universe or My Little Pony fandoms with a bat. I’d never do that. Ever. Where did you even get the idea that I would commit murder against a large group of people, using a bat? Likely a baseball bat, made of aluminum probably? I would never do that. Not even to Steven Universe fans.
My guess: QC stopped having a forum a few years ago, and both comics are having parallel arcs today (someone breaking up with someone else because of a mental health issue getting in the way of the relationship), and folks don’t have an outlet on the QC side.
Discords are impossible to actually start talking in without feeling like an intrusive weirdo who is bugging everyone and also that you’ll probably get yelled at for saying something in the wrong 1/1000 channels
I think it’s more the fact that the on-site poll references QC directly, and also that a whole lot of us only found this strip through its consistent collabs with QC over the years. There’s a high number of QC readers here, and the poll jokingly called us out, so it’s on our minds, now.
Also Jeph is correct to not have a forum for his comic, because my only knowledge about the broader QC community is that it bullied a writer to self-harm for [checks notes] not drawing their favorite character the way they believed he should.
honestly I wouldn’t fault even Willis for shutting down the comments section, even though this one isn’t half as bad.
Having to manage an official forum where people get mean all the time is exhausting work.
Yeah, if you never found out, that’s why Jeph stabbed his hand that one time. Forumites decided that he had started subtly drawing Marigold as skinnier and more attractive, and they felt that it was a personal slight against them, influenced by his obviously-deep fatphobia or something. I don’t know the actual specifics of it, but ultimately, she was their Goblin Goddess Girl, and they started to believe he was drawing her more as a Normie unconsciously, and they made him feel accountable for making Marigold “less ugly,” and thus, misogynistic, or something.
I’m still not honestly clear if he ever was doing that thing, or if there was a noticeable difference. But people decided that’s what they saw, and then they decided it was deliberate on Jeph’s part, and then decided that was a personal slight against them, and then they decided to harass him about it.
also to take peoples’ minds off of this for a second
WHY DO ALL MY FRIENDS HAVE SHINIES IN LEGEND ZA? I’VE BEEN SHINY HUNTING FOR THE LAST COUPLE HOURS AND I HAVEN’T FOUND A SINGLE ONE. AND YET ALL OF THEM HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH! Am I just unlucky!?
Who’s the hottest trainer/leader/whatever in the new game? Nobody I know can justify rewarding Nintendo’s greed, so I haven’t been hearing about it through the usual channels.
Can ya’ll give some opinions on Z-A? I haven’t played a Pokémon game since Sword and Shield. I fell out of it cause it was getting stale and Scarlet and Violet looked and ran very poorly on Switch 1 so I skipped it. Is Z-A worth coming back? I kinda miss Pokémon.
It’s very different from Sword and Shield, mainly because it uses the same mechanics as Pokémon Legends: Arceus.
Rather than battling pokémon in a static 1v1 environment, you can catch them without even having to battle them just by throwing a pokéball at it. However, they can also attack you without engaging in a Pokémon battle.
You mentioned that you stopped playing Sword and Shield because it was getting stale. You’ll be pleased to know that Legends: Z-A’s very much a break from the standard pokémon formula, but not a total detachment, and I would recommend it if you’re looking for something different, yet familiar.
However, I would suggest playing it on the Switch 2, as I’ve heard reports that it runs very slowly on the Switch 1, to the point of being near unplayable. Same goes for Scarlet and Violet if you’re looking to get back into the mainstream series.
Honestly so far between this game and Legends Arceus I’d actually say Legends Arceus is a more interesting shakeup to the formula than this one. But so far I’m having fun. My main complaints being that the small map size makes the game and environments a bit repetitive and it holds your hand for ENTIRELY too long.
But yeah it’s the most fun I’ve had with a pokemon game since Arceus. The main shakups are in how battles work, being more realtime battles where you can selectively dodge moves by positioning and switching out strategically. Which gives every battle an inherently dynamic feel to it.
I too am bereft of shinies, I only have the scripted one.
Mesnwhile my partner, who has played less than half as much as me, got *two* within a minute of each other. yes I’m incredibly jealous, even if they are two of the most common shinies and I have them on other games (skiddo & litleo)
AGH I’m jealous. My friend group keeps posting all their shinier. They’ve all got like 4-5 (not counting mareep). One guy has TWO gold magikarp. TWO? Gee Billy!
I’d say the problem is more the bad behavior of Becky’s oldest friend and her new girlfriend, but sure, whatever. Can’t really blame Dina for feeling this way though.
The only bad behaviour Joyce and Dorothy ever did towards Becky was enabling her bullshit. If they’d gone, “no, you don’t get to treat Dorothy this way, cut that shit out right the fuck now” when Becky went out of her way to antagonise her we wouldn’t be here right now.
I agree. You can hate Dorothy and Joyce all you want for being filthy, selfish cheaters. You can’t place responsibility for Becky’s fragile emotional state on them. She’s had a toxic possessiveness of Joyce for possibly their entire friendship. Becky’s the one that sees herself as not good enough, she’s the one who doesn’t value Joyce’s familial love, she’s the one who only sees Dina as a consolation prize.
I feel for Becky. She’s in a very bad mental state and possibly saying stuff she’ll regret when she’s in a better head space. She needs support, but we can’t let that release her from her responsibility in how she copes with her own emotions and her bad behavior.
I still think this is still hitting a lot deeper than the toxic possessiveness.
This is more of a “I’m not good enough for Joyce->I’m not good enough for anyone. I’m why my dad couldn’t accept me like Hank did for Joyce. I’m why Dina’s leaving me. I’m why my mom killed herself.”
That’s very likely, especially since comments have been somehow finding out what the title of the next chapter is. But Becky’s deeper issues of abandonment and self worth aren’t Joyce and Dorothy’s fault either. Joyce has been especially supportive of Becky and Dorothy even tolerated her performative rivalry antics because she knew Becky kind of needed that as a coping mechanism. Everyone around her has been a pretty great friend to Becky.
Like has Becky been to grief counseling? Has she been regularly talking with Leslie or been honest about her emotions with her friends and partner? She could need therapy, she could need meds, or even just space, but whatever her problems are they’ve actually been problems for awhile and it’s kind of just been ignored.
Becky’s never given any indication of being kinky, but even if she was, I doubt she’s into being stabbed in the heart.
Actually I’m guessing this is going to turn into some kind of “pep talk.” Though knowing Dina, well, who knows, maybe she’s gonna straight up say what it seems like she’s about to say.
I mean, I read the Slipshine, all their sex seemed pretty vanilla to me. Becky thought they’d invented “69-ing” for Cthulhu’s sake. I’d say it takes more to qualify as kinky than just like, liking to be led in the bedroom.
Realizing that very few people are gonna see this, I nevertheless wish to say for posterity’s sake:
Let us look at the semantic construction of BDSM. It stands for Bondage and Domination, Dominance and Submission, and Sadism and Masochism.
Bondage and Domination would be like the actual kinky acts, like if Becky liked to be tied up or spanked. Dominance and Submission, if Becky wanted Dina to fake-force her to do things or wanted her to be in control of some aspect of her life. Sadism and Masochism, if Becky liked Dina to inflict pain on her. If those, I only see a LITTLE bit of D&S, but not enough that it twigs as “kink” for me. Not even something relatively vanilla like orgasm denial. Becky and Dina seem like a lovely Victorian milkshake to me; vanilla and gay.
Dina, your feelings are valid but uh. Those blunt words to a girl that’s lost so uch in the past what 4 months? I.. fear for Becky. ( In a healthy ” she’s not real” way)
Yeah, people are talking above about how even in the middle of a crisis, trauma and depression don’t excuse not considering how your words might hurt other people: Dina saying that to Becky in Becky’s current state is much more worse than anything Becky said.
At least assuming, as the comic presents it, she said that and left.
Wow, I can’t believe that “Extremely Distressed Teenagers Have Imperfect Social Skills: The Comic” didn’t have the characters sit around and perfectly employ therapy-speak at each other for 20 strips to easily disentangle all their anxieties and solve all their life’s problems, in a neat and efficient way. It’s so unbelievable that these evil creatures would be so callous, as to not have a practiced, adult understanding of how to cope with their issues. This comic would be much better if it was about a 40 year olds book club of professional therapists, instead.
Neither of these posters said or alluded to anything remotely resembling any part of that. Demanding praise for a character for their actions 24/7 regardless of what they do or if you personally find it shitty directly contributes to the death of media literacy.
Y’know, since the implied options are “say they dislike how Dina handled the situation,” “agree with Dina’s decision/say they dislike how Becky handled things,” or “say nothing at all.”
This is one of those situations where both sides of this are understandable.
I’m actually kind of proud of Dina for having boundaries, especially after so much chatter in the comment section to the effect of “oh no poor Becky, where’s Dina when you need her?”, which… I too was sympathetic to Becky’s feelings, but the more I saw it, especially in combination with folks lambasting Joyce for cruely “causing” Becky’s heartbreak, the more it felt like a lot of people were forgetting that Dina would likely have her own complicated painful feelings about Becky being so devastated — feelings it didn’t seem fair to ask her to just swallow in order to comfort Becky.
At the same time: Becky is in a really, REALLY bad place right now, and while I’m heartened to see Dina refuse to just take Becky basically confirming that she was, indeed, a consolation prize, this was also definitely the very last thing Becky needed to hear at this very moment.
Ideally, I think, Dina would call in someone else to be with Becky right now — because Becky really shouldn’t be alone, but it is genuinely okay for Dina not to feel up to fulfilling that particular role right now. Unfortunately, I’m not sure who else Dina could call, because Becky, like Walky, is kind of lacking in close friends at IU.
Maybe Ruth? On account of this being in her job description. She should at least be able to get Becky in touch with the school counselor, and she’ll have had some training here.
But all of that admittedly kind of hinges on Dina recognizing that this isn’t just Becky being really really sad. And sometimes it feels like Hank is kind of the only cast member who knows how Becky’s mother died. And Becky puts on a pretty good mask most of the time. Has she discussed any of this with Dina? Does Dina know it’s a potential concern?
(If she DOES know, I would put money on her having researched how to handle suicidality in at least the broad strokes, but if she doesn’t know, which seems more likely given how she’s reacting here……. bleh.)
@ your first paragraph: yeah I noticed some people…kind of treat Dina as an Ideal instead of a person? And that Ideal is ‘perfect autistic girlfriend.’ It’s…hmm.
Yeahhh. I don’t want to accuse anyone of anything. But the comment section (extremely general) has often kind of treated Dina like an accessory for Becky. Like an emotional support doll or something. It bums me out.
I kind of think Dina’s in-universe problem of ‘being too stoic and quiet makes people really downplay her feelings’ is also a problem with some parts of the commetariat
The problem is, people don’t have enough reading comprehension skills to realize that characters can literally be unreliable narrators even of their own selves. This has been true, in just the current story so far, for Joyce, Walky, Dorothy, Joe, Becky, off the top of my head, and I know there’s more I could say, but shit, those are the most relevant characters for this conversation, and I think I’m justifiably right about all of them.
Dina is sort of a weird permutation of this concept: she’s accurately described within the text, that her lack of affect constantly causes everybody around her to misinterpret and minimize her mental and emotional states, but also, she literally looks and communicates as if she’s calm at all times, because that’s what an affect is; but, 99% of the time Dina’s on screen, a lot of the readers continue to take her affect at face value, which is a completely normal human problem, which many actual autistic people have to learn to constantly deal with, and account for.
Dina is a reliable narrator of the fact that her body and her presentation are both unreliable narrators, when it comes to her mental state. But, a lot of the readership, naturally does not account for this, because they probably don’t know anybody close to them who actually deals with this problem in real life.
Or, they just justifiably do not recall the one specific strip where Dina clearly lays out the literal answer necessary to comprehend the problem, because this is a strip that’s been running for, like, 15 years?
I also think that for those not taking her affect at face value, there can still be a lot of varying interpretation of what her feelings are. Like, I’ve gotten people who think I’m numb or not really feeling much when that’s not true at all, but I’ve also gotten people who have thought (sometimes insisted) that I was angry when I was confused, bored when I was curious, happy when I was anxious. When you don’t emote in a “standard” way, people often misread you, and here, it’s not like the readers can ask Dina, and aside from that one chapter, we don’t get a lot of internal monologue. Plus, sometimes you are just calm or chill about something! So there’s a lot of different takes people might have on Dina’s feelings at any given time.
Yeah, I think it’s just an inherent difficulty that comes with Dina being Dina, and the medium being “comic strip.” The way I look at a strip like this one, I just conclude “I don’t have any insight into what Dina’s actually feeling here, and I’m gonna just wait for more evidence.” But that’s not how everybody is gonna read it, and I don’t wanna necessarily imply that that’s not okay.
And apparently, “perfect autistic girlfriend” is only autistic when that’s cute. If she displays autistic characteristics in any other context (say, being honest when they think coddling is required), she’s a heartless monster.
Just like depressed people are gonna sometimes display symptoms of depression, and ADHD people are gonna sometimes display symptoms of ADHD. Like being forgetful, or having trouble listening, both of which can sting when they happen in the wrong moment, but which it isn’t fair to treat like something the ADHDer is doing on purpose or because they don’t care.
And in exactly the same way: sometimes these things we do DO hurt other people, and people are still within their rights to feel hurt, and sometimes we should still apologize…
…yeah, all of that also applies to “Dina is maybe being kinda flat-affect here and maybe taking Becky at her word at the wrong moment”.
Becky feeling very hurt by that is still valid, but it doesn’t make Dina a monster either.
Nuance? In MY comment section…? I wish it were more likely than you think, heh.
The good ™: Dina setting a boundary instead of sublimating her needs completely for Becky.
The bad ™: definitely the worst possible moment to do that, and phrased in a way that twists the metaphorical knife.
Neither of them is a monster. They are, however, both hurting each other right now, and Becky’s in such a bad headspace that her being further hurt, especially in this specific way, is more dangerous.
Like, it’s all true at once. Just as we are all individuals and, ultimately, we are the only one who will be with us every single step of the journey, and everyone has the right to end a romantic relationship at any moment for any reason, but also: we’re social animals, and none of us are ever completely independent, and the fundamental nature of humanity appears to be compassion and mutual aid; survival of the fittest isn’t one size fits all, and our abilit to work together and take care of each other is absolutely part of what makes us “fit” as a species.
No one person “owes” anything specific to anyone else except what has been promised, but. There’s also a basic social contract involved even in friendships, and we know Becky and Dina considered themselves pre-engaged…
idk, I just keep wanting to say: not “owing” anything to anybody isn’t the same thing as it being completely fine to never help each other, or automatically awful to expect help from someone else.
Li, for how much you worry about being a force of negativity in this comments section, I think you might be the singular person who, if the rest of the commenters were more like you, this comments section would be a harmonious and enjoyable place nearly always.
It really is that some people down here are incapable of parsing life through a lens of nuances, as opposed to extreme, rigid, selfish judgements.
I will comment to say that my issue I’ve commented on in this comment section isn’t with Dina. Dina is allowed to walk away and deal with her own emotions. Also, she’s fictional. My issue has been with the very real people here who seem to think that the second someone has a crisis, it’s objectively correct to throw your hands up, say “not MY job”, and sever all emotional ties which is… one of the worst things a person can do in my opinion.
I don’t know how much you can judge how people respond to a work of fiction with how they’d act in real life. I do think acting the way you describe is a problem (and I spent years volunteering on crisis lines, so like… I have a lot of thoughts around supporting those in crisis). But there are just so many particular factors that influence people that I can’t say that’s how even those who feel Dina would be “objectively correct” to dump Becky this exact second would actually respond.
Though I do acknowledge seeing a lot of the “don’t owe them anything” sentiment growing on the internet, and I’m sure that does impact people in real life.
The “don’t owe them anything” sentiment definitely makes me feel like a lot of people have just forgotten how to be kind. Probably not helped by the nature of the internet, I can’t see your face or hear your tone to read how my words are coming off, for example, but feeling that one “doesn’t owe someone anything” is one of those things that feels like it’s being twisted. Cause like, I understand the meaning of it but as a society I think people do owe it to each other to not be assholes. I don’t “owe” a stranger doing a courtesy, but I’d still do something like holding a door open, grabbing something someone can’t reach, or helping give them directions because it isn’t about whether they do it back or if I get something for it, it’s about not being a dick.
I am definitely not in the “no one owes anybody anything, all forms of support are automatically people demanding unpaid emotional labor of me, which is automatically abusive and toxic” camp, and I am terribly sorry if anything I said came across as “Dina is 100% in the right here”.
No. Boundaries are important in part because they help us take care of each other. Gotta put on your own oxygen mask first, yeah, but then you CAN help other people. It will ultimately be better for this relationship if Dina is able to also prioritize her own emotional needs sometimes.
But also, yeah, Becky is in a very dark place right now, and if this is Dina leaving the room, then I really really hope she’s going to get Ruth. And the only reason I worry she might NOT be going to get (very nearby) help is if she doesn’t recognize this as potentially suicidal depression, which she might not, because Becky doesn’t like to be honest when it comes to ugly feelings, and Dina — like many of us! — needs people to be honest about their feelings in order to know what those feelings are.
You can always check the Patreon without being subscribed to at least see a panel preview! I just did, but most people don’t want to be spoiled, so I won’t say either way.
also so much for my theory that Dina would see the logic of Becky’s current emotional predicament, instead she just added to it and now we have Walky, Joe, and Becky emotionally destroyed at once with no end in sight.
Hot take, Walky’s coping strategy thus far is definitely going the best, and is the least unhealthy; yeah, he’s definitely not “okay;” that’s what coping means! The only part of his life Walky is gonna blow up, is the dorm toilet.
I agree with this hot take. Walky’s eating a crap ton of nuggets, talking it out with Billie, and taking time to himself. I still wish we saw angry Walky, but I’d argue he’s handling it the best out of the three actually lol
And sometimes you just can’t beat eating a bit of garbage when you’re feeling bad. Gimme something covered in cheese when I’m down and out and I’m gonna feel better afterwards.
How much patience is Dina supposed to have with Becky? She’s been a rock for Becky this entire time as Becky held insecurities any time Dina didn’t seemingly validate Becky’s sexuality. Dina says she could be ace, Becky assumes she’s not good enough. Dina says gender identity isn’t that big a deal for her, Becky assumes Dina might be a trans man and that they’ll have to breakup because she’ll only date women. Dina has worked with Becky through all this and more. I don’t blame Dina for not continuing to be the perfect understanding girlfriend when Becky still expects her to leave, after she basically admitted Dina was a rebound all in one sentence. Dina is not a robot. Becky might not even realize how badly she likely just hurt Dina here.
Huh? Joe and Joyce have been /dating/ for 12 days. Becky and Dina have been dating for, idk, around a year? I’m actually never sure about DoA timelines specific numbers. Which obviously isn’t actually that long all things considered, but probably feels that way to a 19 y/o when talking about her first relationship!
I think Dina and Becky probably started dating in September sometime, and it is currently January in the comic strip, so Dina and Becky have been dating for about 4 months.
As for the “long long time” vs “12 days”, although Joe and Joyce were secret text support buddies that was still only the occasional text. It’s only recently that Joe and Joyce have been hanging out regularly whereas Dina and Becky have been pretty close and hanging out pretty much from the jump.
wait that’s crazy. for some reason I thought there had been 2 time skips (???) and surely those would’ve passed more time overall – no idea where I got that from though. I should continue to not think about DoA timelines and in future also not comment on them, lol. (Though I think the argument still stands – sometimes time is about how you perceive it!)
I also agree with the rest of your comment – I think they’ve been closer for longer. Joe himself does say “I had /months/” but I think that’s more beating himself up than a realistic assessment (I’ve been there).
There was a time skip after Ryan got stabbed up, though I think that time skip was… a few days? I remember the comic jumped from like a Tuesday to a Friday. And then there was the biggest timeskip which was from ‘end of September/almost October whenever the hell day the end of the storyline was to January’ to ring in the start of the spring semester.
Which is to say, you’re actually right about there being 2 timeskips! It’s crazy to think after 15 years these guys (except Sarah and Ruth) and still freshmen. And I agree with the rest of your comment as well!
I mean… two different people were talking there? Dina might have a different opinion about what counts as a “long, long time” than Joe does, that sounds pretty normal and reasonable to me.
Especially because Joe was trying to minimize to prove he didn’t have to feel as upset as he does, and Dina was trying to explain how she thought they’d moved past something months ago.
It’s only upsetting dialogue if you think Joe saying that was Willis speaking through him to tell you that you’re not allowed to be sad about that breakup, and that this is Willis doing the same to tell you you have to be sad about this breakup.
I don’t subscribe to either read
(and in fact I think “we the audience aren’t supposed to be sad for Joe because it was ‘only’ 12 days” is a genuinely startling way to read the strip in question! Joe is so clearly not even being honest with himself when he tries to tell himself it wasn’t a significant relationship! Why would Willis want us to all universely agtre with something the character himself doesn’t even buy?)
but for folks who do, I understand being distressed / irritated by the seeming discrepancy.
Hm… This is going to be interesting to see. The reason I kept hoping Dina would show up is that she’d be able to cut through Becky’s emotional BS and drive to the truth – but I’m not sure that this opening move is the right way to get there. It’s true, sure – but it’s going to hit Becky hard when she’s already vulnerable.
Of course, the comic cutting off right after she said that could mean that she is going to follow that up with the hard truths that Becky DOES need to hear right now – getting Becky to recognize that when SHE’S the problem, SHE needs to work on finding the solution, because no one can fix her for her. That she can’t just go through life masking her issues and trying to make everyone else happy, and that she needs to take the time to work through the trauma that she’s lived through and actually LET GO of the pain rather than just burying it deep and continuing to let it fester the way she has been.
Of course, this is me saying that with decades more experience learning how to understand myself and others that Dina doesn’t have yet – and I honestly cannot say that I would have handled this situation any better than Dina is when I was her age. And that’s really what I love about her character – as someone who is very much a mix of Charlie and Dina, I strongly identify with her and how she is portrayed in this series.
I am not a therapist, but I’m not at all sure that Becky need to hear hard truths right now. She needs to hear them and work on them, but I’m not at all sure that right in the middle of a depressive crisis is the best time for hard truths.
Of course, once she’s out of it, the mask goes back on and there’s no need for the hard truths, so maybe it’s the only time, but I’d still like to see her pull back from the edge a bit first.
I’m like 80% sure Becky’s fighting a suicidal crisis right now. I wouldn’t be surprised if what she’s looking at on her phone are either the helpline or guides (though tbh it is probably just the online pic of the kiss). Dina’s seen Becky enough to know the spiral has been ongoing before this and that Becky is a risk of a crisis. Mind you, it isn’t Dina’s fault for misinterpreting Becky here and it isn’t her fault what happens, but telling Becky “you are the problem” is NOT saying “you need to work on yourself,” it’s saying “you’re fundamentally unlovable. Your mom couldn’t do it. Your dad couldn’t do it. Your best friend couldn’t do it. God couldn’t do it. And I can’t do it either.”
This would be a scary af situation irl. Becky doesn’t have a cat or someone to interrupt an attempt or a spiral, she’s about to be left completely alone. I don’t even know if there’s anybody that could text and check up on her. Of course, Dina has no way of knowing that and there are limits to how much someone is socially obligated to do even if she did.
[And that might not be how Becky’s responding here tbh, I and a bunch of other commenters might be misreading it and she could just be referring to the relationship and Joyce feelings alone, but I still maintain the above is important to keep in mind in case you do deal with someone having that sort of spiral irl. I have… been in that space way more than I’d like.]
Oh, I completely agree with that. It’s a terrible thing to say in this situation… but it can be salvaged if Dina continues on to turn it from something negative into something to help motivate Becky to improve herself and get better. Ending the comic where Willis did leaves it ambiguous, and it’s really easy to see the worst coming (because, hey, the comic hasn’t had much in the way of ACTUAL drama in it for a while – not that I’m complaining about that!) – but I’m hoping that we’ll have a deep and interesting conversation where darker outcomes are discussed and teased… but don’t end up actually happening. Given how we’ve seen some of these events go, the tension will still be there to keep us reading – but I’d really rather not see one of my favorite characters in the series ending up with a terrible fate.
Alas. A big question being “Is Dina intending to come back soon or not?”. From one perspective, the first choice is on the side of healing a rift and the other is on the side of widening it. From another perspective, the first choice is on the side of worsening a precedent while the other is on the side of addressing it. On the one hand, there’s an ideal of being there for someone close to you especially when they’re at their worst. On the other hand, there’s an ideal of not lashing out at those close to you even when you’re at your worst. Not trusting myself to hope for any specific outcome, only witnessing and hoping to see what follows (soon) rather than a switch to different characters. (Fingers crossed.)
–On the bright side, even if the Becky-Dina and Joyce-Joe relationships both collapse instead of evolving in interesting directions, that would mean I get to ship Dina-Joe which would be awesome in several ways.
Really? Dina just vanishes? I was expecting some sort of “Reason you suck” speech since Dina has done EVERYTHING to be a supportive girlfriend to Becky, including supporting her church-going ways while being an atheist, only to realize that Becky STILL holds a torch for Joyce and seems to be more devastated at losing her to Dorothy than losing Dina entirely. Granted, as being someone who actually developed a crush on my best friend, I will say it takes a HELL of a lot longer than three months to get over them, but I wasn’t romantically involved with anyone when my best friend was attending college (she was a year older than me and graduated early. I got my own girlfriend AFTER she left.) I know Dina finds it hard to empathize with Becky right niw but I would’ve thought she would try to find a way to let her know that she’s still here and waiting to be fully in Becky’s heart if she’d just let go of Joyce, rather than just admitting she could never be Joyce and therefore should just leave Becky. I know this isn’t as bad as, say, seeing your verbally abusive father dying without accepting you, but going for a clean break while your partner is at her lowest emotional point is… ill advised. Understandable (At least DoA Dina knows when to stand up for herself) but somehow… ill advised.
Am I wrong? Is clean-breaking from Becky the right thing to do?
I don’t think it’s the right thing to do, no. I also don’t see this as Dina doing a clean break though I’m also not sure entirely what it is she’s doing other than just walking away for now. I don’t… think it’s an actual break up? But maybe I’m wrong.
Clean-breaking from Becky is absolutely the right thing to do for Dina to do for Dina. The right thing for Dina to do for Becky is to clean-break and dump about five thousand therapist business cards on top of her.
Why does it have to be this zero-sum game? Why does Dina HAVE to break up with Becky in order for Becky to get the help she needs? Why can’t they work through their problems like an actual couple WHILE Becky gets the help she needs? Is your position that people dealing with complex and severe mental health issues are not deserving of love or romance until they “fix” themselves?
Because Becky’s issue is that she has defined her entire identity as “lesbian” instead of as “Becky”, and the only way she’s going to get through this decently is if she learns to be “Becky, who happens to be a lesbian” instead of “a lesbian who is named Becky”.
Because that IS the issue. If Becky thought of herself as “Becky, the person” and not as “lesbian, who is called Becky” then Joyce getting together with another woman would not trigger any of this, because then her relationship with Joyce would have been defined as ‘between Becky and Joyce’ and not ‘between a lesbian and the person she wants to date but can’t because they’re not into women’, and Joyce getting together with Dorothy does nothing to change the former.
What you’re saying is completely nonsensical and even if it wasn’t this is about so much more than just Joyce getting together with Becky. I find it genuinely astounding that people still are not picking up on that.
– Her mother killed herself
– Her religion forced her to live a lie her whole life
– Her first foray with women made her homeless, schoolless and got her…
– Stalked by her father, who turned up to school with a fucking gun
– She was kidnapped by her dad as were several of her friends
– She watched her dad die of a severe head injury, and the implication was not that it was a quick or painless death
And after bottling ALLLL that up for far too long, the last person from her former life has just “replaced” her with a new best friend and a new girlfriend in one. It’s not reasonable for her to own Joyce or expect to, but it IS reasonable that someone who has been through this much might, with a final straw, fucking snap.
Her identifying so strongly with being a lesbian is in part a symptom of her trauma, not the fucking source of it. And it’s also literally fine for her to do, maybe one of the least harmful coping mechanisms she has (and there are harmful parts of it she should work on, but again, let’s consider scale here damn).
You said what I was going to say better. I will really only add on that I understand how someone could go from “Becky is afraid of the idea that sexuality can change” to “Becky’s identity is too wrapped up in ‘being a lesbian'”, but as you say, that’s a symptom. And really the root cause is probably (and horrifyingly) closer to a thought process that goes like:
1) If I could have not a lesbian, none of that stuff would have happened to me or my mom or my dad or my friends.
2) Therefore I could have prevented all the bad stuff from 1) if I was not a lesbian.
3) I don’t want to not be a lesbian.
4) Not taking action to prevent all the bad stuff from 1) would make me a bad person.
5) I am not a bad person.
6) Therefore, it is not possible to change sexuality, ever.
7) Other people appearing to change their sexuality means that I might not be 100% fixed in my sexuality.
8) This contradicts 6, which contradicts 5, which means I might have caused my mom to die and my friends to get attacked by my dad by being stubborn rather than just because I am who I am.
9) JOYCE is my best friend, and I want what’s best for her.
10) Therefore JOYCE’S sexuality is not 100% fixed if Joyce changes.
11) Therefore 9 is true
12) Therefore depression/PTSD/trauma response.
I think we’ve also got additional salt in the wound factors, like:
a.) Becky threw herself on Hank like she thought he was a live grenade. She told Joyce to run. In that moment, she probably felt like she was getting to be Joyce’s Amazi-Girl: the superhero sent by God to save her best friend.
Only then it turned out Joyce didn’t want saving, as she almost immediately threw herself on Hank in the same way to protect Jocelyne — and then it turned out that she didn’t need saving either, because despite ostensibly believing a lot of the same things, Hank isn’t Ross.
When you’re depressed, it’s easy to alchemize something like that into “no one needs me”, and to alchemize something like THAT into “therefore, I am worthless”.
b.) As much as Becky has put a positive spin on what happened to her (“God sent a superhero to save me from my dad”), I’m sure it’s… painful to see someone else who, again, comes from such a similar background, getting to have a much gentler coming out. Not having to choose between her sexuality and her father.
(It doesn’t help, either, that I think Becky fully missed Carol’s return. Maybe Joyce told her about it, maybe Joyce didn’t — she might still be feeling, as she once expressed, that she doesn’t “get” to complain about her parents being crappy to Becky, which is well-intentioned but could easily leave Becky with the impression that actually, Joyce hasn’t had to lose ANY family members.)
c.) The part Becky doesn’t yet know, but would probably assume anyway: that Joyce managed to work through her lingering feelings that being sexual = being sinful before having sex with her girlfriend for the first* time, and therefore, unlike Becky, there wasn’t any shame-induced sobbing.
……. basically, I think it would be kind of understandable for Becky to feel like Joyce isn’t just having a gentler coming-out experience, but actually just… being better in every way than Becky. A better daughter, a better girlfriend, and somehow more beloved by God, despite having fully turned her back on the guy.
* yeah yeah, something something laundromat. That Joyce mentally categorized this as their second time rather than their first probably genuinely helped a lot of her anxiety, too.
Yeah, I didn’t remember that, but it’s exactly the kind of thing I mean.
Joyce told Becky that her mom had stopped by to let her know her parents were splitting up, but not that it was in any way a painful visit full of her mom spouting casual bigotry, you know? She tried to minimize it, which in turn makes it… sound minimal.
this is really good at compiling the way that we think when we are in that mental state. people with depression are actually proven to be more logical than people who do not currently have it, and this is precisely how you use logic to hurt yourself when you’re feeling that way. it’s a very scary place to be, because you really feel as if your ruminations are the most correct you’ve ever been about anything, and you’re blind to the fact that they only hyper-fixate on the wrong things, in the worst possible way.
I might be speaking a little bit from experience as to how some college depression spirals go, and I didn’t even have any dead-parents-level tragedies behind mine.
Which is part of the point — depression will, for example, take away your executive function and motivation and then use the fact that your friends still are going to class and doing things as a reason why you specifically suck the most for getting a 2.9 one semester.
The number of people who expect Dina to stay in a relationship forever with a girl who has flat-out agreed that she’s just a placeholder ‘until Joyce’ because said girl is sad that Joyce is dating a different girl is staggering.
Dina is not obligated to stay in a relationship where she’s just being used, whether or not the girl using her is crying.
(That said, I suspect Dina doesn’t mean this as a breakup, because if she did she’d have actually said so. Becky has said that she doesn’t want to talk to Dina, said she herself is the problem here, Dina agrees and dips. If it was anyone else, sure, but Dina doesn’t really do unspoken implication.)
Becky has never said that. Up until today, she figured there would NEVER be a ‘until Joyce’. She talked about marrying Dina. Granted, partially because of her religious shame around having sex, but she seemed pretty intent on it even after that. How is that in any way a placeholder relationship?
Because Joyce, a girl who has never been a romantic option, kissing another girl is THE END OF THE WORLD despite Dina being genuinely a good-standard girlfriend. They both are very clear *in this strip*: Dina is a consolation prize. Dina would be dumped INSTANTLY if Joyce was interested, because Joyce is FIRST PRIZE.
DINA should be first prize. And now she knows for sure that she’s the participation medal. Why is that a situation in which she’s obligated to stay?
It’s the end of the world for a lot of reasons for Becky that are more than just Joyce being a first prize. This is way more complicated than that, and I truly don’t think Dina is the consolation prize. Dina isn’t obligated to stay, but she IS the first prize. Becky loves her. She still has some unresolved shit with Joyce but I honestly don’t think she loves her, not after that fight they had a couple weeks ago.
Plus, like…I actually don’t even think it’s unfair to say, Becky has never actually loved Joyce in a romantic way, the way she loves Dina. Becky is hung up on the trauma of being in a situation where Joyce, ultimately, would have been her only actual option for a partner, and their friendship was as obligatorily co-dependent as any of Joyce’s close relationships.
When you get right down to it, Becky doesn’t so much romantically love Joyce, as she is afraid of losing her. Becky loves her incredibly deeply; I just don’t think it’s romantic. Becky is as down bad for Joyce as Dorothy and Joe are, but I really think that the source of her feelings comes more from years and years of fearing the loss of Joyce, possibly even before her family members started dropping like flies around her.
Becky hasn’t considered that her love of Joyce, may just be a strong platonic feeling, because much like Joyce, she was given the worst possible fundie story-book framework of what love is supposed to feel like, and what her purpose is as a woman (be completely obsessively devoted to one person, and give them the sum total of your whole life and self).
I suspect that Becky’s fear of losing Joyce may actually be the initial catalyst for seeing a relationship with Joyce, as the only happy end-game for her life; it was, logically, the only way she could guarantee she would never, ever be meaningfully separated from Joyce, who it seems was basically her only real friend or confidant, much like how Becky was all Joyce had.
And, Becky could cope with losing Joyce to some man; after all, that’s God’s will and what not, and she wouldn’t want her friend to never find love! But, losing Joyce to another woman? Well, in fundie mindset, Becky could accept that “spouse” and “bestie” were two fundamentally different categories, and because she’s a woman, Becky could still win at the latter category, because if you’re going off fundie logic, a woman’s love for her husband is this mythologized category, which Becky could accept that she never had a chance at, because she never wanted to be Joyce’s husband.
But, if Joyce has a gal pal, well…that’s a paradigm where Dorothy doesn’t just knock Becky off the leaderboard in the category she wasn’t trying to compete in. Male suitors can only take Joyce’s married life away from Becky, and she successfully accepted she wasn’t getting that, anyway; but, she never saw men as capable of attacking her spot on the “bestie” leaderboard. Dorothy is a girl. Dorothy can usurp Becky in both categories, and thus, Joyce loving Dorothy naturally implies that Becky loses all of her Joyce-time, because Dorothy is a woman, and thus capable of being a spouse and meeting all of Joyce’s friendship needs, as well.
So to clarify, I’m not saying Becky’s romantic feelings from Joyce are fake; what I’m saying is, Becky has incorrect assumptions about how relationships work that are rooted in her upbringing, and those incorrect assumptions are what created this obsession around losing Joyce forever, and then manifested that fear into an obsession with the idea that eventually marrying Joyce, would be the only way to fully guarantee that Becky wouldn’t lose access to her, and wouldn’t lose yet another family-grade relationship from her life.
When you contrast Young Joyce with Current Dina, I think it actually may be kind of obvious, that Joyce could never have been compatible with what Young Becky wanted from her, for reasons that had nothing to do with Joyce’s sexuality. The things Becky and Joyce need from their partners are not compatible.
I do agree with a lot of this and that’s also why reducing Becky’s reaction to “just being sad Joyce doesn’t love her” is a really simple viewpoint. The reason Becky was upset about Joyce being an atheist behind her back is because Joyce is basically the last tie she has to her childhood, to something familiar.
Her father is dead. Her mother is dead. The community she was raised in hates her and bailed her father out, allowing him to kidnap her friends. She does have Hank to rely on as well, at least, but Joyce is the childhood friend who was her closest and probably only companion for a long, long time. Like you said, she could bow out of ‘allotted besty time’ for Joyce to date a guy, she’s never been against Joyce being interested in a man. But Dorothy is her rival for best friend and now romantic interest. She’s already ‘lost’ their shared connection to Christianity. She’s losing her best friend in little pieces over time and that’s devastating.
Halfway down the page I learn 3/4 of the people here believe this is a breakup.
Why?
That would be completely out of character for Dina! She’s going to explain what Becky has been doing wrong, and then they can fix it together! Logic!
Plus, she’s simply too autistic to just somehow automatically never criticize her girlfriend. She’s also autistic enough to not mean what she doesn’t say. She didn’t say “yes, it is, and therefore“.
There’s a strip in a comic called “Bohemian Nights” where main character Emrys gets into a nasty verbal fight with his then-girlfriend Stephanie, who had been acting erratic for weeks. She kicks him out of her apartment, and Emrys’s last words to her are “how could someone so beautiful be so ugly on the inside.” Stephanie has no comeback so she quietly closes the door, and the last panel is just the door, confirming that they’ve broken up. In my experience, whenever the last panel is just a background after an intense emotional arguement. that means that they’ve broken up. And Dina, being the logical girl she is, probably knows that no pep talk is going to change Becky’s mind that she’s anything but a consolation prize and Dina deserves so much better. (Only problem is, there really is no one in the named cast that are worthy of her. They’re either all horny idiots, or Danny… and Danny’s taken.)
Or, she just cannot take this right now, and left to sort herself out. That’s how stuff might work in real life. Might work (drama-wise) in a comic strip as well; when she returns, there will be Discussion.
Maybe it’s just because I’m someone who’s had CPTSD since I was 7 years old, but I’m amazed at the responses that seem to be “if your girlfriend is having a mental health crisis, it’s the objectively correct thing to do to break up with her”. I’ve had a few breakdowns and had friends who were there for me through it, and in turn I’ve been there to help my friends when they’ve had struggles. I couldn’t stomach leaving Becky, or anyone, really, alone in such a state.
It’s the context of the breakdown. If Dina weren’t Becky’s girlfriend this would be an entirely different situation.
“if your girlfriend is having a mental health crisis, it’s the objectively correct thing to do to break up with her” Sometimes that is correct. Sometimes staying is the worse outcome. And sometimes it’s not. Sometimes there isn’t a correct option.
I don’t think the context does anything to make a break up appropriate here. I can see scenarios where that’d be the case (for example, if a partner in crises is engaging in extreme property damage that puts themself and their partner at risk, physical abuse, emotional and mental abuse) but Dina knew Becky still had her Joyce hang ups. Just a couple days ago, Dina dressed up in a masculine style and Becky couldn’t resist her. Becky clearly has strong feelings for her. So why is this breakdown the clincher where a break up is appropriate? Can’t even give the girl a couple days to come to grips with the situation, just “yep break up, this is the right thing to do”. It’s just a very unforgiving thing to do in my opinion. It would make me wonder if the person doing the breaking up truly loved the other person in the first place.
We don’t know that they are going to break up. Dina agreed with Becky that she is the problem and the last panel is blank. Perhaps she left the room. Perhaps she climbed up on the bunk bed.
Becky is attracted to Dina but has also unwittingly made her feel like a consolation prize. Her mere act of having a break down over someone else being in a relationship would feel like a betrayal to many people. Because in a healthy monogamous relationship you shouldn’t feel that way, you shouldn’t be in love with someone else like that, you shouldn’t be destroyed by other people’s love.
Someone doesn’t need to hurt you for a break up to be appropriate.
The only context you need to end a relationship is that you no longer want to be in a relationship.
I do agree that I don’t think this is a break up. But I think it would be an awful scenario in which to break up. I can’t really say anything about that last bit because you are objectively correct. I guess I’m just more patient, man. If my partner had a breakdown like this I’d be there for them 110%. Even if it’s over them having unresolved feelings for someone else. If it became a repeated pattern of Joyce having relationship stuff that sends Becky into a spiral that’d be one thing but this is literally the first time this has happened and being so cut and dry about it just feels unforgiving.
It’s always been a thing kind of hanging over the relationship, so I can see why even a single crisis about this would just feel like confirmation of everything Dina had feared, but I’d really hope that they could at least talk through it a bit, especially since I think this crisis is far from just about wanting Joyce instead of Dina.
I agree with that last bit wholeheartedly. Becky, a lesbian who came out and experienced a LOT of strife for it (including attempts to convert her), is now face to face with the fact that Joyce, who previously thought she was 100% straight, is indeed not straight. And it isn’t JUST “omg Joyce didn’t love me”(although I’m sure that still is there) but it is ALSO “what if I wasn’t a lesbian after all? What if I could like dudes too? What if I did just let me dad send me to that camp, and I just tolerated getting married to a man one day, my dad wouldn’t have died and Mike wouldn’t have died and NOBODY would have been kidnapped because that was all my fault because I’m a lesbian”.
And it’s also “what’s wrong with me that my dad couldn’t accept me? Hank accepted Joyce. It’s me. The problem is me. Dina’s going to leave me, because the problem is me. My mom left me.”
Point of order, I think Becky is actually operating under the assumption that Joyce might be a lesbian. The specific things Joyce has said in front of her kind of support that read: she’s calling herself gay (umbrella term usage, I presume, but suggestive), and she’s been framing this whole thing both in her own mind and out loud to various people as:
“I was always in love with Dorothy and only just recently realized it”
Which. You know, is easy to read as a lesbian emerging from heteronormativity, rather than a bi woman who’s just being very infatuated with her new girlfriend.
Personally, Li, I think Joyce has massively overstated things. It’s kind of natural coming from someone without much relationship experience, but I doubt Joyce has been “in love” with Dorothy for all that long. She’s had a crush for sure, but it’s only very recently that she’s felt a desire to actively seek a relationship. Maybe it’s their time in the laundry room, maybe it’s that she’s sensed Dorothy’s feelings about her are changing, but I think Joyce saying she’s been in love all along is just retroactive rose-tinted glasses. And this has probably only made things sting all the more for Becky, who thinks that her friend was comforting her and denying being gay while having sublimated this passionate desire for Dorothy. In my opinion, Joyce is extremely new to having intimate lesbian feelings — she’s crushed on Dorothy, but also Sal and probably other women (Billie?), and it has been more of an abstract fantasy than a sexuality. Of course, Becky also struggles with the idea that sexualities can change/develop suddenly like this, so it’s natural for her to feel like she was lied to, albeit unconsciously. (Of course, we can never really be sure about this, except from Willis confirming/denying the accuracy of Joyce’s statements. And Becky only has Joyce’s word to go on, so even if she had fully embraced the idea of a fluid sexual identity, she’d still probably feel like Joyce has been gay all along, even when swearing that she wasn’t. I wonder if Becky would be isolating herself to this point if Joyce hadn’t gushed so hard about her eternal feelings for Dorothy.)
(tldr: the “6 on a Kinsey scale” lesbianism aspect aside, the “WLW emerging from heteronormativity” part isn’t just easy to read, it’s directly implied by what Joyce has said, and imo it isn’t very accurate. Joyce’s thoughtless puppy-love gushing has really twisted the knife here.)
There’s a reason why I said infatuated! I think Joyce has loved Dorothy for longer than she’s been IN love with her in any sense, and that she’s just… jumping in with both feet, the way she’s always tended to.
But also yeah, what she’s specifically said within Becky’s earshot has absolutely left the door wide open for “maybe Joyce isn’t bi, maybe she’s actually 100% a lesbian, just like me, except somehow doing all of it with fewer problems and more grace”.
Bleh. I do not subscribe to the idea that any identity is “less” queer, I dislike it when folks phrase things as “not JUST bi but fully gay” or any variant. I only meant to convey Becky’s mental emphasis.
(that moment when the TLDR is probably better communicated than the original rambling post, because my brain is ADHD as fuck. apologies for those who waded through that wall of text)
(I realize the Kinsey scale is a bit controversial but that was the simplest phrasing I could think of at the moment to distinguish “lesbian who likes women and possibly also men” from “lesbian who only likes women”. Maybe it’s implied, I get confused between that and “sapphic”)
Fffff I was actually saying that about MY OWN comment, I didn’t even see your Kinsey scale addition!
We use the tools we have.
Importantly, being a 6 isn’t “more queer” than being a 3 or a 2, either. The number is bigger but Kinsey didn’t mean it that way — or indeed any way at all, since the original scale was meant to talk about behavior, not identity. 🙂 You’re fine. I wasn’t blehing you.
I’m really shocked by the amount of people who seem to think A) this is a permanent breakup and B) this was the unambiguously correct thing for Dina to do.
Yeah I don’t think it is a break-up, but I do think that if Dina wants out of the relationship for any reason – a break-up is the unambiguously correct thing for her to do.
I hope she doesn’t, but I think it’s reasonable to protect herself from harm if she doesn’t feel equipped to or interested in continuing with Becky at this point.
Of course Dina doesn’t have to stick around in a relationship she doesn’t want to be in. That’s not what I take issue with. It’s the parting comment Dina made here – that is just not something you say to someone spiraling like Becky is, especially just saying that and then leaving without another word.
As I noted above, sometimes it seems like the only character who’s really clocked any of this as an issue for Becky is Hank. It’s not clear how much he told Joyce, either, when she was confused as to why “someone’s suicidal” would be such a personally painful topic for Becky back in the day.
Becky is so good at masking, and Dina tends to take people… well, literally. As someone who also has that problem sometimes, and might or might not also be on the spectrum, I would understand if Dina really does not know how bad the state Becky is in… is.
I can see from this morning’s comment section that when I made my own comment, assuming folks would take it as read that what Dina said in that second to last panel was the last thing Becky needed to hear, I should in fact have spent more time talking about that!
Because for me at least, it’s very much not a binary. I can think it’s good for Dina’s part that she didn’t immediately sublimate her own emotional needs to be the perfect girlfriend comfort object for Becky AND that the specific way she did that is awful for Becky’s mental health.
Also: boundaries are important, but part of why we need them is to be able to keep supporting one another, and I definitely don’t subscribe to the current wave of “actually, EVERY man is an island, friends who need my support are automatically toxic and should never ‘demand’ emotional labor from me” wave of thought.
No same. I hate the current vibe that seems to have turned from “It’s okay to have boundaries, and you don’t owe someone your health/sanity” to “It’s okay to abandon friends and loved ones and you don’t owe someone a reasonable amount of affection and support”.
Ahhh yeah that’s super fair. It was a weird parting shot at her gf. She’s upset too, and I understand people say shitty things in shitty situations when they’re upset, but it sucks.
I genuinely wonder if that’s just because Becky spoke first. Becky said a hurtful thing and then Dina said a hurtful thing but it was in response to the first therefore it’s Becky’s fault Dina was hurtful AND Becky’s fault that Becky was hurtful.
Unless it’s Joyce’s fault somehow.
Not a belief structure I ascribe to, but I do wonder if it’s a bit of that happening.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a significant issue, just because of the one comic a day format? Because we get so invested into each moment of an argument, and there’s 24 hours of speculatating about that first Bad Thing that was said, and sometimes we talk ourselves into thinking it came from a Bad Place, and then a response that’s “returning the same energy” can wind up feeling like a cathartic retort for US? If that makes sense.
I don’t think it’s a breakup just yet, but I could absolutely see it going either way. People have joked about a cascade of breakups coming out of the Joyce/Dorothy kiss, but at the rate things are going? It doesn’t seem impossible. I can hope for these two to fix things and become a better, healthier couple, but I’m fully prepared for them to fall apart.
I find it pretty frustrating that Becky recognized Dina wasn’t the proper person to go to about this and stopped herself from actually getting into the situation, left Dina’s room while still clearly having a lot of feelings she was trying to deal with, and then Dina showed up in Becky’s room for this.
Exactly what I came down here to complain about. Becky blurted out ONE thing and then stopped herself talking any further. Then Dina ran down an entire train of logic by herself, got outside information to fill in the gaps, came in, and just made Becky feel worse and left, after Becky didn’t even try defending herself.
0. Amber is injured, Dina is worried about her.
1. Becky arrived at Dina’s door with a thousand yard stare and stated that God was fake.
2. Dina haltingly asked her what was wrong, and Becky avoided her eyes for a moment before saying “maybe” she shouldn’t talk about it. Dina tried guessing (that Becky was upset Amber had been hurt), and guessed wrong.
3. Becky decided that she’d been right and she shouldn’t talk about this. Presumably she then left Dina’s room. Dina turned to Amber, extremely worried, and asked what could possibly have happened to shake Becky’s faith that could be worse than everything with her parents. Amber told Dina that she saw Dorothy and Joyce kissing.
4. Finally, we see Dina in Becky’s room.
I think your framing underestimates how distressing Becky’s affect was the entire time. I don’t think Becky was really acting like someone who wanted to be left alone, or indeed someone it was safe to leave alone. And since we skipped over Dina actually knocking on her door and entering the room, we can’t be sure what Becky said in response to her appearance at Becky’s door.
(Though I would bet “nothing”. I would bet she didn’t get up to open the door, or even respond verbally to the knocking.)
Unfortunately, Dina is also dealing with all of her own hurt feelings now, and not dealing with them well.
For Dina’s reaction, I do think she lacks some information about various factors that are going on for Becky right now– Becky’s not really in a place to lay them out, either. So Dina’s working with what she has– still in a way that I think is a mistake. But I also feel like people are reacting like finding something frustrating is at odds with finding it understandable, like it’s some kind of behavioral outlier or something, when… that’s just not true at all. People do understandable and frustrating things all the time.
Sure, but again, for *this*… it makes sense that she’d go after Becky. It makes sense that she’s upset about Becky’s reaction. I don’t think going after someone who’s really upset in order to confront them was the best move. I even think it’s possible this wasn’t the conversation Dina set out to have, but her feelings impacted her in the moment. It’s still frustrating to see.
You stare at the abyss and it just stares right back. And that’s when the hug comes — not from the front, but from the side. From the Dina you didn’t even know was there.
Dina’s not wrong. Becky is the problem, the problem is IN her, which means she’s the only one who can address/fix it. She said she doesn’t want Dina right now, she agreed Dina’s just a placeholder, so Dina dipped.
It now on Becky to figure out what’s ACTUALLY most important to her – if it’s really more important that Joyce is with a girl who isn’t her, she can stay where she is and Dina won’t interfere. If Dina is the first choice and not just a placeholder until Joyce, then Becky can go find her and they can work through stuff.
But it’s Becky’s decision to make, start to finish. And if she needs help figuring out, that help should probably not come from Dina.
Becky has said precisely none of those things. She didn’t say she didn’t want Dina right now. She didn’t say Dina was just a placeholder.
I can kind of see why Dina might think that’s what Becky’s thinking, but unless I’ve really missed something, Becky hasn’t said and I don’t think she’s even thinking it.
I see this as Becky having a crisis over her feelings of abandonment and of not being good enough for the people in her life. Her mother killed herself. Joyce couldn’t love her like she loved Joyce, that means she wasn’t good enough. Her father couldn’t accept her being queer like Joyce’s dad accepted her – that’s a problem with her. Dina will leave her, like everyone does, because Becky’s the problem.
mental health problems are things that are solved with like, a support network, community care, etc etc, it shouldn’t be something you have to do on your own and trying to “fix” yourself on your own is much harder than when one has support.
I think we all have a responsibility to support eachother, and like yes dont burn yourself out don’t hurt yourself trying to help other people but don’t go too far in the other direction too where everyone is expected to be an island of one and you aren’t responsible for anyone, because thats a very individualist way of thinking and not good for the human species.
so idk someone should get becky to someone she can talk to about this stuff.
when someone is having a mental breakdown what i like to do is just like, wait, for them to get their nervous system calmed down a bit so we can actually talk
I also do my best to not take things people say while this is happening too personally, like, i get hurt by my friends who say stuff when going insane sometimes but we talk about that after it happens and if it keeps happening
this is also what helps me when i have a breakdown of some sort like becky is obviously having happen
now i don’t necessarily expect 19 year olds to act like this but like leaving someone having a breakdown by themselves isnt the platonic ideal of mental health support because “its not anyone elses responsibility” or whatever
Especially since Dina means something completely different by it than Becky does. Dina’s talking about her being a rebound for Becky and her own issues with how that makes her feel, while Becky’s saying she’s the problem that makes everyone leave her.
Becky, the person, is not the problem. Becky’s untreated mental illness is and her disordered responses to stressful stimuli are what’s driving a wedge between them, but those are problems that can be treated when they are identified. Becky, herself, is not the problem, and I really want us all to be extremely fucking careful when we discuss this shit because these are real behavioral and mental issues that real people struggle with, and the last thing those people need to be told is that they’re the problem, which is already what they’re telling themselves, and having that assumption confirmed can drive them to doing drastic things.
It’s not fair to Dina that Becky has made her feel like she’s second place in her heart, but that she has done so is a result of Becky no longer being able to compartmentalize her feelings with Joyce, which she never actually confronted and resolved, meaning that now that they’ve come roaring back, it’s been explosive. Dina needs reassurance from Becky that Becky does love her and wants to be with her as herself, not as a consolation prize, and Becky needs reassurance that the voices in her head telling her that every bad thing that’s happened to her is her fault for being insufficient as a person are full of shit. Both of them need support right now, and they need to talk things through, but Dina needs reassurance about how Becky feels about her and Becky needs to be talked down off a ledge. They are not in equivalent mental states right now.
I am of the strong belief that ownership of one’s actions is a key component of mental health. What you are talking about is a more modern form of therapeutic compartmentalization – separation over integration (X is happening to me vs I am engaging in X behavior), that I personally believe is more damaging in the long run, as it potentially reinforces disassociation from agency rather that reconciliation.
Becky’s crisis is based on her perception that the world is crashing in on her.
Dina has always gone for simple truth and direct statements. Her track record on this probably makes her the one person that can tell Becky to take ownership of it and not have it seem like lashing out.
But I do agree as a general thing it is a rough strategy in RL. Better to start with a cup of tea and get them to stop doom scrolling.
If she follows through and actually talks to her about it, maybe.
As is, she’s doing nothing but reinforcing the spiral. “Joyce doesn’t love me and it’s not because she’s straight, it’s just because I’m me. The problem is me. Hank could accept Joyce. My dad couldn’t accept me. The problem is me. My mom killed herself. The problem is me. Dina’s going to leave me. The problem is me.”
“Yes. It is.” And Dina leaves her.
Now, Becky hasn’t explicitly said most of that to Dina (or at all) and I don’t think Dina’s picked up on most it. If Dina’s thinking that the issue is just Becky still crushing on Joyce, then her response makes sense.
On the other hand, has anyone considered Dina’s feelings? She’s not a therapist, she’s not trained in how to deal with someone’s nervous breakdown or spiral. Most people who aren’t trained or experienced with dealing with this kind of spiral aren’t going to be cool professionals under these circumstances, especially if they’ve always had doubts about the other person’s feelings anyway.
I mean, personally, if someone I know is in suicidal crisis it becomes my obligation to handle it. Whether that’s me sitting with them and holding them for a bit and ordering food to distract them or finding an authority figure that can handle the situation if I can’t, I believe it’s every human’s responsibility to do what they can to help someone if they have options available and the alternative is “this human dies.” Like, for Dina it would be a good time to get Ruth or a different RA if she can’t find her.
BUT, I don’t think Dina knows that might be what’s happening here.
When Joyce and Dorothy emerge, they’ll find every former couple now split up, and all the single people now paired off:
Becky and Dina split up
Sal and Danny split up
Lucy and Jacob split up
Leslie and Daisy dating
Sarah and Joe dating
And more! Utter chaos and catastrophe!
(except for the polycule of agatha, grace, and mandy…they’re solid)
Can Leslie date Daisy? Like ethically speaking? I’m not against a bit of age difference but I think Daisy is a student right? Wouldn’t that be against school ethics and be problematic sex pest behavior? Like what Jason was doing with Sal that one time but maybe slightly less abhorrent?
Daisy isn’t in Leslie’s class (and would derail it enough to get kicked out if she was), so I don’t see any ethical problems. Leslie isn’t responsible for any aspect of Daisy’s education and has no power dynamic with her.
Leslie is still a teacher and Daisy is still a student, so while there’s no direct conflict of interest or unequal power dynamic, it’d probably still get looked at askance.
I think Willis has been deliberately vague about Leslie’s age. Like I think they’ve basically said Leslie is old enough that she wouldn’t have a weird age gap with Robin, but young enough that it wouldn’t be SUPER creepy to ship her with an older student like Daisy?
At the same time, Daisy can’t be too much older than Ruth, who can’t be too much older than Jennifer.
It’s all a liiiiittle bit precarious, and I think they’re gonna keep avoiding giving Leslie a specific age because of it.
I’m not inherently against age gap relationships at least not conceptually. I think there’s just a limit though and the more you go beyond that the more questions you gotta ask about how they met and that’s when it get problematic. Like if you’re in your thirties and your partner’s in their 20’s that’s fine to me. You’re both adults. I hesitate to believe a 60 year old met someone who just turned 18 organically. For my opinion I always saw Leslie as low to mid thirties. 29 at the youngest. She had a crush on princess Leia, sliding timescale may apply, but she’s either a Star Wars superfan or a little older than 5 years from 18.
Well, I honestly wasn’t sure what way Dina was going to go with this. But I can honestly say it definitely wasn’t a knee-jerk reaction – And that much, I had correctly predicted.
As much as we all know Dina has been far more patient than Becky deserved, it’s good to see that she has her limits. She may let herself get emotional about things later, privately, but for here and now, the simple fact is, this relationship is not functional, and does not seem like it can be salvaged.
There is no point in clinging to false hope that it could be. There is no point in dragging it out. Maybe it seems to utilitarian, but it really is the right thing to do, right now.
While Becky could actually make progress on her fixation and then demonstrate to Dina that she’s gotten over Joyce and truly wants to be with Dina – I’m not sure Dina will necessarily reciprocate again.
Even now – It’s plain to see that Becky’s far more upset about the fact while Joyce’s orientation isn’t an absolute non-starter to a potential relationship anymore, Joyce has very clearly fallen for someone who is not-Becky, than she is about the fact that she has torpedoed her actual relationship with Dina. And that sort of thing is definitely going to stick in Dina’s mind, cementing the whole “consolation prize” thing.
This is a rough patch, sure, but I think you’re being wayyy more pessimistic about this relationship than the strip is really giving us reason to be? There’s no reason that Becky and Dina can’t patch this up.
I’m not sure I want that as of now. It’s too soon to decide either way whether this is the end of their relationship, but I at least want Becky to work on herself and be in a much better place mentally before Dina reinvests in her. Patching things up, at least to me, implies even more work on Dina’s end and I think our dino girl has done more than enough. She’s had the rebound hanging over her from the start. Dina deserves never to feel like the consolation prize ever again.
Not to go all 12 step on this but…
A spouse of an alcoholic has to remember. They didn’t cause this. They cant fix this. They’re not responsible for this.
Nothing Dina has done has caused Becky’s breakdown. Nor can she fix it. Only Becky can retrieve this situation. Becky is traumatized and has lost almost everything and everyone. But she doesn’t have to lose Dina.
Becky, being a suicide survivor, and having multiple traumatic losses in such a short time really puts her at risk for self harm. An intervention and getting her into therapy would be priority number one.
Aren’t most people consolation prices? Almost nobody winds in a relationship with their first love. This and the whole rebound thing is something I don’t understand. If I love someone all I need from that person is that they let me love them, and whatever other feelings they may have are irrelevant so long as I get the affection and attention I want. For me affection is like money, it doesn’t matter where it’s from so long as I have it. Now Becky isn’t letting Dina love her right now, but with a bit of patience and support I’m sure she’ll go back to her usual self. Yet it seems that this is not acceptable to Dina, she wants something more from Becky, but it’s something I don’t really grasp.
I think the idea is that even if someone only started dating you because they couldn’t date someone else and you happened to be available, and you both know it, at some point there should stop being reminders of that. And there certainly shouldn’t be blatant indications that they never stopped feeling that way about you. Like, it’s fine to still carry a torch for other people, but those feelings need to not be made your girlfriend’s problem. Becky saying that shit about “Joyce kissed Dorothy, God is dead” is her treating Dina’s affection as a lesser option, directly to Dina’s face.
Being in a relationship means your partner’s feelings are your problem, though. You comfort them when they’re sad, they comfort you when you’re sad. That Becky went to Dina shows that she values the relationship, and that she withdrew when she saw she was hurting Dina shows she cares about Dina’s feelings. If I were Becky I would be acting the same way. What I’m having trouble with is understanding why Dina is hurt, because if I were Dina I would be comforting Becky.
We’re talking about different things when we say “[your partner’s] problem, I think. I can’t quite articulate the timbre I’m describing, and I’m not sure I fully get yours either. To elaborate slightly, I’m saying something like “The torch you’re carrying for someone else isn’t your partner’s weight to bear”. There can be room for a “But I can carry you” moment, for sure, but I don’t think it should be an expectation.
If I may, I think i get what you mean by “problem”. It’s the difference between having a healthy conversation and trusting my partner to help me work through my feelings, or venting my spleen and having a tantrum and forcing my partner to manage my feelings for their own safety and well being.
Here, that would be the difference between coming to Dina and explaining how she feels and why vs. walking in, declaring God to be dead and refusing to say any more about it. The former shows Dina that she is loved and trusted to be there when Becky is at her most vulnerable. The latter forces Dina to navigate an emotional minefield.
This is kinda parallel to that cheating discussion we had a couple days ago, I think — the problem isn’t “Becky loves Joyce, too”, the problem is “Becky loves Joyce in a way that indicates that Dina isn’t enough for her”.
Remember, Becky’s reaction here is pretty easy to interpret as “I was with you because I thought it was impossible to be with Joyce, but now that I know it was (on a sexuality basis) possible it is causing me extreme distress that it’s Dorothy and not me.”
As I added on to Taffy’s comment, “Dina, I love you, even though Joyce was my first love” isn’t making Dina a consolation prize in the same way as “Dina, I ONLY loved you because Joyce wasn’t available, and I’m upset because now I realize/believe EITHER I could have had Joyce in some universe where I’d tried harder in some way OR I’m not good enough for Joyce to love back.”
I’m unclear on what the difference is between “I love you even though you weren’t my first love” and “I only loved you because my first love wasn’t available”. They’re both describing the same causal chain. If my husband hadn’t broken up with his high school girlfriend he wouldn’t love me, but he did, so he does. Her loss is my gain, as it were. It would be a problem if he was having breakdowns about her on a regular basis, but it would be the same problem if he was having breakdowns about anything else on a regular basis. The breakdowns are the problem, not their subject.
I’m guessing this ties up to my inability to feel sexual jealousy. Becky’s breakdown here is indistinguishable to me from her having a breakdown because her grandmother died or something. Becky’s sad, if I were Dina I would comfort her, the reason why Becky’s sad isn’t important. If Becky was going to be sad all the time going forward then that would be a problem, but because the sad itself would be interfering with the relationship, not because she’s sad over some other girl.
Let me reframe — we’re not really talking about sexual jealousy, we’re talking about having the ability to understand some people are monogamous. Dina’s worry/feeling here is probably close “If Becky is monogamous, and Becky feels like this about Joyce, there is no room left for Dina.”
The big difference between the two “not your first love” is the idea of HOW that prior love impacts the current one — usually, grant, this is most painful in a monogamous or hierarchical-poly context, but the important this is whether or not there’s a perceived possibility that the person in question is likely to REPLACE you with the first love, y’know? Like, my partner knows I still care about MANY of my ex-girlfriends, but they occupy a place in my heart and life where my nesting partner doesn’t have to worry that one of those women could reappear and I would leave.
Dina, by contrast, I think has internalized the idea that if Joyce showed up right this second and said, “Becky, I was wrong, please drop Dina and be with me”, Becky would at least consider accepting. THAT is what hurts — when the emotional context is such that you feel like you’re disposable relative to the first love.
(That first paragraph is really badly worded, I’m not accusing you of not having empathy, I’m trying to say that maybe you’re not thinking through things from a possible other perspective).
The difference is that “I love you even though you weren’t my first love” doesn’t imply that you love your first love more than them, or even that you’re still in love with your first love, whereas “I only love you because I couldn’t be with this other person” DOES.
The difference is the whether the person has moved on from that prior love in a healthy way.
If enough time has passed that you’re no longer preoccupied with wanting Person A back and/or with being angry at them, then you may be able to love and prioritize a new Person B in the way that they deserve.
If instead of working through those preoccupations you start dating Person B immediately in order to numb the feelings, that’s when Person B may be said to be a rebound or a consolation prize. Person B in this case tends not to last due to risks such as: you abandoning Person B to go back to Person A if the opportunity arises, or you realizing that Person B was simply a sort of “methadone” for your “additction” to Person A and not really any better of a match for you.
Well, the only way I know how to move on from a previous obsession is to bury it under a new one, so what you’re describing just reads like a normal relationship to me. When I first started dating my husband I was open about the fact that I loved my ex-girlfriend much more than I loved him, and he accepted it in the expectation that feeding my growing obsession with him would eventually cause it to grow stronger than my lingering obsession with my ex. Becky has not made a secret of her feelings for Joyce, but on any given day her feelings for Dina are obviously stronger, so all Dina needs to do is have patience and let Becky’s feelings for her continue to grow.
C’mon, Willis, cut away from Becky’s dealing with her emotions with another panel of Dorothy and Joyce getting it on like you did with Joe/Sarah’s conversation. Really hammer home what’s happening.
The difference being that that isn’t something they’re doing TO either Becky or Dina?
I can sympathize with feeling like that final panel was meant to underline that Joe’s feelings don’t matter and that Joe’s fans should like… be quiet, I guess, but I don’t think that was the point at all.
I think Willis cut to the two of them being together to illustrate Sarah’s reason for thinking what she does, and I think IF it was more blatantly sexual than other cutaways, it kind of needed to be, because we still had folks in the comments loudly speculating that maybe Joyce would freak out once the panties were off and break up with Dorothy.
Yeah like, if you are free to display that you dislike a ship a lot, even if it might upset shippers, then they should be free to display their love for it even if ig might upset other shipper. I dunno, maybe it’s just the autistic brain thinking that is the most fair.
Maybe, because the difference seems pretty clear in doing so as a reply to someone or not. I don’t think the comment was really that bad, but I think that’s a basic stance that some people have in the comments that others don’t– saying something as its own comment being a general saying what you think, saying it as a reply to someone being saying it *to them.* I mean, this is Dot, the one who was making the hater containment threads so that people wouldn’t be going after those in their posts about liking the ship…
I guess it doesn’t make much of a difference to some people. To others, it makes a lot of difference.
I mean, ehhhh 🤷 the original comment was already about bringing down other ship they didn’t like, so fair is fair i believe. These kind of subtlety of communication get lost on me honestly.
While I don’t have a great track record at predictions, I’m not sure they are donezo.
Dina would be pretty well justified in breaking up at this point. But she knows Becky is in a pretty dark place right now and what she says now is not necessarily indicative of her truest feelings. Having unresolved feelings for Joyce does not obviate their pretty deep relationship. It’s possible Dina is saying something that reflects the harshness of her feelings in the moment while also having the capability to come back and talk it out when Becky is better able.
That said, it does feel like this could require Dina to be doing most of the emotional heavy lifting and that’s not pretty unfair, even if I think it’s possible.
At first i read it as harsh, but I can also read it as “this is a problem my girlfriend is having with her own feelings, there is little i can do to help. I ought not fight because her feelings are not endorsed. I love her but I’ve said what i needed to say and my energy would be better spent elsewhere such as with Amber, while she deals with this.”
Not really what Becky needed to hear, but then again none of this was really what Dina needed to hear either.
Sounds like they’ve reached a point where they need to begin healing separately. Maybe neither of them are equipped to help the other on their journey anymore.
While I like to do a bit of trolling by claiming this ship had to sink in order for Jorothy to set sail, I do think Becki is going to be more than fine by the end of this. Right around the kidnapping arc, Willis posted a bit about the story line saying that he had strong feelings about how media liked to make it’s gay characters suffer for drama. He also went on to say he would never make Becki a tragic heroine because of that. That’s stronger plot armor than like anyone in the cast enjoys. Rough waters now but always a sunny destination.
Meanwhile, Walky who got cheated on and mocked for it with the tacit approval of his erstwhile girlfriend (who, I remind everyone, didn’t even have the shred of decency to break up with him herself) is… somewhere, I guess.
Imagine how much nicer it would have been if Dorothy had said to Walky “Joyce and I have finally recognized our feelings for each other. But don’t worry! We haven’t kissed yet! We’re going toto go do that right after this conversation, but we wanted to make sure we filed the correct paperwork first.”
How different might Walky’s rain have been! “Oh thank God for that! For a moment i was afraid that this was going to be emotionally challenging, but your decision to honor the sanctity of our deeply emotional four-day-long commitment has spared me from the emotional turmoil.”
Now, while you’re right that merely doing things in the ethically correct order in the bluntest way possible would in particular not have spared Walky any pain, there’s at least a chance Dorothy would have framed it a slightly better manner than you’ve laid out.
As for “four-day commitment”, well, that’d be the other half of it — Dorothy wasn’t ever going to treat Walky any better, because she’s been an absolute shitheel of a partner to everyone she’s dated in the strip so far, including her entire previous relationship with Walky AND part of the time when they were broken up and he was trying to date Lucy.
You’re using a legalistic idea of cheating and a prescriptive notion of how relationships are supposed to work on order to apply a moral weight to their actions that isn’t warranted.
Try as I might, I cannot figure out any way to connect “legalistic” or “prescriptive” with “cheating is cheating if the people in the relationship say it’s cheating”, which is approximately the most morally relativist definition possible.
I’ve got a bad feeling, a real bad feeling that the drugs Dina stole for Amber is going to be a chekhov’s gun. Please let me be wrong, please please let me be wrong.
Doesn’t seem likely. Is Becky going to sneak into the room and steal the drugs without either Dina or Amber noticing? Drugs she doesn’t even know are there?
Scenario: she goes into amber and Dina’s room to try and patch things over, it goes REALLY badly, Dina storms off, amber’s still in bed, pills are on the desk, Becky sees them…
After reading more comments I will say this about Dina and Becky.
From the very beginning I always felt like their relationship dynamic was a bit uneven. They made out at a party and just kinda decided to date. Then the whole Ross situation happened and trauma bonded them. From that point onward Dina has been the emotional support Becky needed to keep her grounded. But over time Becky seems to rely on Dina more and more to calm her anxieties. And I can’t think of too many times Becky has extended the same effort towards Dina. Sure she bought her a big dinosaur but I cant really think of many times Becky has shown dina emotional support. (Maybe when the6 were trying to find out what aroused Dina for sex? Even then there was an undercurrent of Becky worrying Dina was more attracted to someone else.) Heck, Dina put in a suit to help with Becky’s worries about sexual identity and she just starts panicking about dina becoming trans and leaving her. And it’s a LOT. It’s a LOT for an 18 year old to deal with. And after all that effort shes putting in to constantly make Becky comfortable the fact that Becky not only seems to still carry a big torch for Joyce but also just tells Dina to “go ahead and leave”
After all the effort Dina put in and Becky is still saying stuff like that to her? That’s how little you think of me and all the effort uve been putting in? I can see why Dina felt insulted. She’s also a person who can be very emotional and frustrated and anxious despite her often neutral expressions and I feel like Becky hasn’t been proactive in checking how Dina is doing right now emotionally. I think Becky may have to actually meet Dina half way and start checking in on HER feelings. Dina isn’t Becky’s gift from God. She’s a thinking breathing human with her own problems too.
Dina is 19, but yeah I concur with all of this 100%
after all her effort, she’s come to the conclusion that what’s happening with Becky is a problem which she cannot solve, and which isn’t her responsibility
Dina is an amazing person, she did what was for the best, but this is still very painful for her
why Dina, precious Dina… the Empress of Evolution don’t deserve none a this!!! 🦖😭💔
Lol. I guess now we now why Willis didn’t double their money doing a Becky plushie so you had to buy both and keep them together forever. The signs were there for months! We should’ve noticed!
but Dina now realizes that the problem wasn’t with her putting in enough practical effort, but an emotional problem with Becky which she is ultimately not equipped to solve nor should be responsible for
Completely agreed. I loved their relationship, and if it does survive this and becomes healthier I’d really like that, but you’re not wrong that Becky doesn’t seem to ever soothe Dina’s frustrations or anxieties (see Dina’s failure to get an Autism diagnosis). It’s not just Becky who treats Dina this way, but the fact that she’s her girlfriend does mean she should be better about this than others. Becky needs help and therapy that doesn’t come from her girlfriend alone, and Dina needs a partner who cares about her as much as she cares about them.
Which now has me thinking more about how Joe “I got my autistic gf a weighted blanket because my autistic mom loves them and I think she would too” Rosenthal really would be a good fit for Dina down the road.
I think this is a pretty sound analysis! I like Becky and Dina as a couple but it doesn’t mean their dynamic is always the healthiest. Maybe it blowing up is actually good, it gives them a chance to take stock of what’s really important.
Joyce has three people in love with her. I don’t know if I could tell her she’s doing it wrong since there was never any question of me being in that position.
Also Willis please protect Becky and Dina from any (more) harm…
As someone who frequently found themselves as the hinge in love triangles as a young adult (at one point having been proposed to by my ex, my boyfriend and on the fence with a third because 16/17 year olds shouldn’t be off at college by themselves making those decisions), I’d say having multiple people actively in love with you without a polycule situation established or in the cards is actually a big red flag you’re doing something wrong lol. I for one was not handling my mess, ever.
[If a polycule is in the cards or established, obviously this does not automatically apply.]
To be fair “Becky and Dina are dating” isn’t a storyline, it’s a state of affairs. What they’re dealing with now is a storyline, so now they have something to do other than be cute together and occasionally offer a snappy punchline.
Okay, I have to be honest. It has been a very long while since something shocking and dark and heightened happened, like the kidnapping or the car chase or Mike’s death. Becky is having a brutal time with her feet underneath her kicked out repeatedly, first with self harm thoughts, then fluid sexuality, now this.
I am starting to worry Becky might be going to a very very dark place without Dina, Joyce, or Dorothy in her life.
For all the people crying about that being the worst thing Dina could have said —
For all that this strip likes to paint her as kind of alien, Dina is not the most emotionally capable, trained or even experienced in dealing with a loved one’s breakdown. She’s literally not built to deal with this reasonably. First Amber’s injury, now this with Becky, and I’m sure all the campus-wide commotion with the protest was HARD for an autistic (I’d have a bad time coming to grips with it, for instance). Big thing about autistics that I’ve learned is that we do NOT handle chaos well.
People in pain DON’T make good decisions. Dina is NOT going to approach this intelligently or even fairly to Becky. This is bringing out a whole dumpster-full of doubts she’s apparently ALWAYS had about this relationship. Right now, she’s in no shape to deal with Becky, and Becky is in no condition to reassure Dina.
This is true, but it is also still true that what she said was the worst possible thing to say to Becky in the given situation. Giving someone having a heart attack ibuprofen because you were shutting down and not processing labels and saw “red-orange circle == orange circle == aspirin” (or just assuming that NSAIDS being colloquially called aspirin means they function similarly) is both completely understandable, but also still one of the worse decisions you could make in the situation.
I don’t think Becky thinks of Dina as a consolation prize. She’s just feeling hurt and rejected all over again, not because she never got over Joyce, but because seeing Joyce with Dorothy just put things in a new and painful context for her, and she’s having RSD. It’s pretty clear that Becky’s got a form of ADHD. And she’s too much in her feelings about what she’s retroactively experiencing as another whole layer of rejection to be able to spend the necessary effort to be careful about how she’s expressing herself.
I wonder if Dina didn’t literally disappear in the last panel, but it only symbolizes that Dina is now “Beneath [Becky’s] Notice”, same as she is for most people?
Like a “Becky has retreated so far into her own heart, she’s beyond Dina’s ability to reach” thing?
Everyone shipping Dorothy and Joyce, I hope you’re enjoying the fallout of their selfishnes.
Becky needs to realize that this isn’t her losing out on Joyce, but rather having to leave behind the idea of her that she had been in love with. She needs to make it clear to Dina that this isn’t about her being a consolation prize, but rather a panic attack about why she didn’t trigger these feelings in Joyce and Dorothy did. It’s feelings of inadequacy and “loss” of the last person she considered to be family.
That would be a very articulate and emotionally mature thing for a person to do in this situation. Sadly, this is Becky, who is more likely wanting to push everyone away, or self sabotage herself and let her rejection and fear of abandonment dictate her actions.
If two people who are not a part of your relationship kiss, and that ends your relationship, then you were never really on super solid ground to begin with.
And if we do hold Joyce and Dorothy responsible, then what does that even mean? Is Joyce just banned from kissing women her whole life because Becky’s relationship will immediately implode if she does?
Think it’s less what they did and more how they (didn’t) handle the aftermath until it blew up in everyone’s face. Don’t think Becky would have taken it any better, but at least there would have been an attempt.
Why is it “selfish” for Joyce to fall in love with Dorothy? Does she have some duty to ensure that none of her relationships might possibly bother her incredibly-uncommunicative best friend or something?
If it’s your life and there are problems, there’s a good chance you’re part of the problems and it’s not that the entire world is out to get you. Good news! There are all kinds of ways to learn and work on yourself.
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😖 😖 😖 😖 😖 😖 😖 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭
*plays “A Grim Fate” from Dragon Ball Z on hacked muzak*
Becky.
Becky Becky Becky….
…you stupid!
Sure, Joyce is cute af, but she’s with Dots, and never felt “that way” about you from the beginning.
Dinah is an AMAZING gf! Learn to be grateful for what you have (until now) before you lose it and get slapped upside the head by the comment section! xD
People will feel how they feel. I think Becky really does love Dina, but I don’t blame her for being hurt by this too. She’s got a lot of big emotion right now that she’s got to work her way through. Hopefully she won’t permanently mess up her relationship with Dina on the way. (Also, I totally don’t blame Dina for being hurt over this either)
That’s a very fair point, she is experiencing Big Emotions right now, let’s just hope she deal with them healthily, and make sure Dinah knows she is loved and not just a consolation prize. 🙂
*posits RAZOR by Daughtry might also work well, more so if you imagine it more like a duet*
Also I really like your choice of Avatar picture for today.
I prefer Dragon Ball Kai “To Those Who Meet Their End”
*here you go*
and honestly yeah this still fits 😭 😭 😭
I see your Hacked Muzak and raise you one
first Elliot, now Becky, WHYYYYYYY
Jeph and Willis are getting a tea together, under our nose
This is why therapy is important kids!
I understood that reference
I, too, have studied the scrolls
At least Becky’s like 18. Elliot’s way too old to not be getting help for this, honestly.
Pfft. He’s in his twenties. He probably still has that new-baby smell.
The nebulous passing of time makes it hard to pin down QC ages really. Hanners was 25 at some point, I think by inference Faye is older than that, and Claire and Clinton were 23/21 at some point as well. Sam is a teenager. Liz is 19.
Hard to use that as any firm reference of course but if I had to guess, the ‘original crew’ of like Marten/Dora/Faye would be around 30 at this point. Elliot might be like… 25? 26? At least?
I think Dora is meant to be a bit older than Marten and Faye, but i could easily be wrong.
No, you are correct. Dora is older than Faye and Marten, and Faye used to poke fun at her about it in the past on occasion, and Sven’s older than her, naturally.
I wanna say Hanners is older than Marten, but only narrowly. It’s not terribly clear where most of them are, age-wise, outside of obvious ones like Claire being a little younger than Marten, and Clinton being her younger brother. I assume Elliot’s probably early-mid 20s, because he can’t really be any younger than that and plausibly be a bouncer.
Eliot’s anxiety is at the level where the thought of addressing it in itself triggers it. I’m wildly curious how Jeph will take that story.
Just as I’m wildly curious where DW has taken this one.
I had just assumed that the breakup was Jeph’s way of writing Elliot out of the story, as he had done with Angus (so?) and Cosette before. It hadn’t even occurred to me that we might get to see Elliot actually pursue this as a storyline. I would love to see that! Unfortunately Elliot’s anxiety has only deepened since his introduction (and it was already kind of bad then) with no inclination of taking any concrete actions to improve, which is why I assumed we just saw his last appearance.
Hopefully Becky will recognize this Now or Never moment and turn things around before she loses Dina.
I don’t see him leaving the cast so easily, especially since his problem has been mentioned over and over and his need for therapy has been hinted at several times, rather than just “he needs to go/it doesn’t seem to work.”
I assume he’ll make some progress and then get “fixed” in time for his next arc, like Dora making a passing attempt at being better and then getting with Tai in a healthy relationship and suddenly everything is good.
Might be a little cynical, but character growth tends to happen in discrete implements and as a means to plot convenience in QC. :p
What probably helps Elliot is that he’s got more connections than those characters; he’s neighbours with Roko, friends with Yay/Renee/Brun, etc. So there’s a few storylines he can be used for down the road.
That’s what I assumed too, that Elliot was being written out, as he focuses more on new characters from where marten moved to.
Or he wanted to bring Clinton back for something and realized he needed to deal with the relationship he’d left hanging.
“DW” are the incorrect initials.
“DYW” are the correct initials.
Bubbles needs to come to town; she will solve everything just by her presence. (and if Faye tags along, she can kick Becky’s ass if needed)
Back in the day, we had lots of crossovers. But I haven’t seen any in a while.
Yeah, I miss those days. Lots more indie creators not tied to a web publishing label like Webtoon or Tapas, lots more freeform stuff, crossovers and outright fourth wall breaking… Of course, the downside was that you had lots more series go on terminal hiatus, and if there was a crossover included with that, when one series went away from the web entirely, the other’s archive often got completely borked if the storyline was meant to be canon.
Schlock mercenary was legendary in that respect. For a while at least.
The pure number of crossover chars turning up in the background, usually but not always accompanied by a foonote and link, sent me sooo far rhrough the webcomic space.
Indeed, it very much looks like the end of a long-lasted era 😭💔
but with or without Becky, Dina will always be my favorite — the Empress of Evolution is strong, and my oath to her will always come first 😣🦖
here’s seeing that past this, they will both have some positive growth
where there is life, there is hope —
life finds a way…
*plays “Disheartened Pazu” from Castle in the Sky on hacked muzak*
Nah, Elliot had it coming.
Dinah much less so. She worked hard on carrying her side of the relationship
would you say
this was the best she could do
It really was.
And it really was the last time, too.
Dina did so, so good, and at least this time it feels like she might be able to give herself a little bit of credit for doing it.
“best” is a hard thing to pinpoint, innit?
Best for Becky? Dina could be more supportive in this situation, of course.
Best for her own self-worth? I´d say she did well – leaving the door somewhat open, but making clear its on Becky how to go on.
I´m more than double her age and probably whould have tried to save the relationship by swallowing my own pride, at least for a while.
But where I a non-involved friend, I would encourage myself to do exactly what she did. Preserve thyself.
I think you may have misread, ResRam: Elliot is being compared to Becky here, not to Dinah.
Yes, thank you.
I was looking at the “broken up with” party and comparing.
HOW MANY UPDATES DID I MISS IN QC?!
Probably not that many. It was also this week.
Feel this! I check DoA daily, but I tend to let QC stack up. I saw the comment and I was like “Ahhh! WHAT?!” and had to immediately go catch up. Luckily I was only like 2 weeks behind.
I missed like two days! We were at Marigold’s house last I checked lol, I was thrown so hard for a loop by that info lol
Now Clinton and Dina are free to hook up.
Dunno if I’d ship them, but the two of them running into each other at a coffee shop or bar and comiserating would be great.
Dina has made a cameo in QC before, it would be cool to see her venture into Secret Bakery or the bar that Elliot bounces at and see him in DoA. Unless Jeph and Willis talked about this I don’t think that will happen, but it would be great if it did!
Or maybe Dina disappears for a while, Becky freaks out and realizes she may have lost Dina forever, Dina shows up again, and Willis changes Dina’s speech bubble.
Becky: DINA! Omg, where WERE you???
Dina: I went to many places off campus to think. Among which, I spent a considerable time at a bakery, where I felt compelled to buy soda bread.
She did? When??
https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3766
Considering the different in time flow rates between the comics, Dina could very well go to QC, spend several weeks there, and come back the same day she left. Nobody would even notice she was gone.
She showed up in Girl Genius once too:
https://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20181031
She’s all over the place, really. I wonder if she’s related to Jenny Everywhere.
Dinosaur obsession meets AI fanboying. Mecha-dinos ensue.
Final stage of butts disease, when it reaches the heart.
people wanting the other shoe to drop; here ya go, the monkey’s paw curls.
Both red heads no less!
tssss
Ah jeez
my dreams– of seeing dina and becky get character development beyond their relationships– are coming true
So we can blame this on you?
Is this a monkey’s paw scenario, or do we need to gather the pitchforks?
mwahahaha
Who even has pitchforks anymore? I bet if you look around your house or apartment, you don’t even have a pitchfork OR torches! Kids these days, unprepared for spontaneous mobs when the mad scientists make monsters..
I have both.
Remnants from when I lived in the sticks.
Same. Also a giant cleaver once used to butcher bison
I also have a pitchfork!
Kept it the last time the peasants tried to storm the castle. Surprisingly useful devices. Peasants aren’t as dumb as they look.
I have a co-worker with a tiki torch, but I do my best to avoid him.
Grandpa had a lot of weird antique tools. If there isn’t a pitchfork, there’s probably something scarier.
Hah jeez Lois, this is worse than that time I saw Kansas at Gillette.
[Jump cut to a football game between the Patriots and the Chiefs, Peter’s in the audience]
“PLAY ‘CARRY ON WAYWARD SON’!”
Oh hey, a Persepolis poster! That’s neat!
Ages ago Dorothy said it was her favorite movie.
Really? Damn, total respect.
Yep. Way back in the second session of Leslie’s class. The poster’s been a consistent part of Dorothy’s room decor since way back, though it’s not covered by the persepolis tag, and I’m too lazy to trawl the archives to figure out when it first appeared.
It’s an interesting choice. Reveals a lot about her character.
Yeah, Dorothy has said that was her favourite movie.
“Popcorn, get ‘chore popcorn heeyah! Or, for the more discerning customah…”
(Opens hatch on popcorn cart revealing torches, pitchforks, and itchy sweaters)
“All majah credit card accepted!”
Is that a Phineas and Ferb reference or am I miss remembering that?
Just a generic carnival barker routine.
I’m sure that torches and pitchforks won’t be necessary. The commentariat will act with with the reasoned dignity we have come to expect.
https://scontent-hou1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/569507322_25812591781664514_3825344110734535262_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=SR3EnTrj2kgQ7kNvwEN0BfA&_nc_oc=AdmF6OymD8dBsrxamL9JjuUi2WLKQOVOaVUz0XM7Tg1158OITlHZER5-5s3Ow3ebeJF1RAHMdUTCHMqs6THEyzeh&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-hou1-1.xx&_nc_gid=yivT4tgK_9KfYJBjLH9mCg&oh=00_AfcmbIhmxXZ8f2e9uHPxwd1EZyWb31_mdQpb7mdXN2f1Sw&oe=6900FE10
Is the pitchfork emporium anywhere near Spatula City?
Darn, she couldn’t just Shake It Off.
lmao
Michael Scott screaming NO PLEASE GOD NO
WILLIS!!! *shakes fist*
It’s traditional to put the “DAMN YOU” in front of “WILLIS!!!”
I hope not.
The best definition of “tradition I ever read was: “Peer pressure by lots of long-dead people.”
Given the age of this comic and the excitability of the commentariat, I assume and hope most folks who started that still are alive. Posting, even.
*Willis appears, with Infinity Glove almost complete*
I mean. Yeah, Becky. Sorry. You are in fact the problem, and self-deprecation doesn’t fix anything. At some point you’ve actually gotta work on yourself and dig into your issues a bit.
Also Dina was clearly looking for reassurance and Becky was too caught up in self-recrimination.
flagellation is an inherently masturbatory act
You do it your way; I’ll do it mine.
Becky right now: https://youtu.be/zgUKQCVieWM?si=AEmg7hmxJE11AkYL
Qube, my person of indeterminate gender, you have that wrong.
“self flagellation” is masturbatory.
However, without the “self”, it certainly is not. Just ask anyone from the BDSM community. They will tell you all about consensual flagellation between partners.
1. I’m a dude, but I also won’t hold it against you if in the future you wish to open a rebuttal with “Qube, you ignorant slut”. who doesn’t love Dan Aykroyd references
2. you are technically correct (and depending on who you ask, that is the best kind of correct) but I tend to write how I talk and as worded it rolls off the tongue more easily- that extra “self” makes the whole sentence lurch like you missed a step on a staircase. intolerable vibrations.
I trusted that the savvy reader would be able to pick up from context which one I meant, as you clearly did ;V
And I’m sure Becky will have all the right takeaways from Dina soft dumping her.
You mean that this is what she gets for spending the money on her hair cut?
i mean yeah kinda ballsed it up big time there champ
She Dan’d it up.
Danny’s track record has been fairly solid of late, near as I can tell
Wait till he and Sal argue about whether Joe or Walky is getting more of a raw deal.
H-uh, that IS some more untapped potential from the breakup.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
I really really hope this isn’t the end for them forever. But if it ain’t, it’s gonna take a whooooole lot of time, a whole lot of work, and a whole lot of growth on Becky’s part.
i’m sure the fact that dina isn’t emoting very much means she’s not actually mad and sad and crashing out and therefore it’s on her to be the perfect reasonable one in this situation. i’m sure it’s perfectly fair for everyone reading to assume that dina feels nothing strongly in this instance
Dina by default is stoic and hard to read?
also, look at the alt-text… T~T
I suspect that was heavy sarcasm.
No, no. It’s just Willis’s bit of humor. He knows that a lack of extradition isn’t enough to save him.
Alt text just means Willis has more to go… hope you like China Damn you: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-without-extradition
*comes off as stoic and hard to read
… Dina T~T
It’s brutal reading the comments on that comic where everyone is expressing confidence in the stability and longevity of Dina and Becky’s relationship and asserting that Dina is no longer just a rebound for Becky.
Look, my opinion of this comment section is pretty low, but even I trust them to understand that Dinah is generally very stoic and that just because she’s not outwardly upset doesn’t mean she’s a robot.
DoA Dina isn’t stoic, she’s wise. And really that’s the single dramatic personality difference between IW Dina and DoA Dina- in IW Dina never stopped being naive and idealistic and being heartbroken when others didn’t live up to ideals and beating herself up for not being able to live up to ideals. DoA Dina has internalized a broader understanding of life as a whole, and while she continues to have difficulties with interpersonal nuance, on a broader existential level she *gets it* in a way that many people never do in all their lives. And I’m sure this comes from DoA Dina having her parents more active in her life (I can’t remember what her relationship to her parents was in IW) and demonstrating their commitment to her, giving her better people to model herself after and a window on the wider adult world through observing their interactions with it, and supporting her in pursuing her own intellectual interests in ways that help her learn more about what the world and life is really like.
Dina has gained a small amount of experience with people in her life, but she’s not fucking Buddha. Autistics are not some kind of mutant Well of Wisdom. I assure you, Dina has feels. And she’s really no more experienced in dealing with them by herself than Becky is.
IK,R?
I suspect that in the next strip this turns out to be the lead up to something supportive and sweet.
Also, I really want to know what Becky is looking at on her phone.
What if its The Kiss in the newspaper’s online edition. Just self-destructively wallowing.
This is totally what it is.
I think we might be more than a few strips out from seeing this turn supportive and sweet. Feels like there’s a bit more ground to cover for that.
I fuckin’ love Dina. What an unexpected and fun reaction that makes perfect sense for her character. I hope we get to explore more about her beyond her relationship with Becky now, it’s been a while!
Becky needs help. I hope Dina isn’t so hurt that she won’t be willing.
I think she just left.
We can hope she went to fetch Ruth, who then can help get Becky to accept she needs therapy
I’m not 100% sure Dina can fully carry Ruth, she might have to sub-contract this to Carla.
Unfortunately, I don’t think Dina is in a position to help directly, even if she wanted to. Becky needs to talk to someone outside this situation.
*Teleports away*
Fair, valid, and completely understandable of Dina
I think at this point becky has earned the right to feel hurt while also not thinking dina is the consolation. Feelings dont just go away like that and despite showing up like 10 years ago for us, thats like a couple months for them, definitely less than a year.
And dina is also allowed to feel hurt by this reaction. Im hoping dina sees this logically and supports becky thru this, as a testiment to what she has accomplished, even though she is not entitled to do so.
Yeah. It’s a REALLY crappy situation all around here, and yet… Nobody is really at fault. Becky loves Joyce; she always has and she probably always will, and since Joyce hasn’t really done anything to poison/destroy the love Becky has for her, these sorts of loves are really, really hard to move on from. (Speaking from personal experience here.) Meanwhile, from Joyce’s side, not being into Becky is also not her fault; you either like someone or you don’t, it’s as simple as that.
And for Dina, she went into this knowing that Becky was coming off a rebound, but it still must hurt knowing that despite being your best, it still isn’t good enough to become Becky’s Number 1. Some people can accept being someone’s secondary love (it crops up too for couples where one partner is like super duper devoted to their business or art or some other passion or cause), but for a lot of people (myself included), knowing that you will always come second in your beloved’s eyes is a dealbreaker.
Hey look, Becky is finally getting some Consequences! That’s what you guys want right? Consequences?
consequences for CHEATING
Becky didn’t need more consequences! Becky has done nothing except be life’s punching bag! She’s like… mildly annoying at worst and I don’t even think she’s really that 99% of the time!
Nobody wanted consequences for Joyce being Bisexual. That was never the issue and you know it.
Yeah!!!! This rules!!!!
Wrong one!
yes!! I wanted some for the cheating but this is good too, any conflict is good really
When did Becky cheat on her partner, then immediately rush to rub that she’s stolen her Affair Partner from their previous romantic interest?
In an alternate future where Joyce turns up in a few seconds and kisses Becky.
Like, she hasn’t done it, but she absolutely would. Crowing over Dorothy losing, cheating on Dina, she’s hung up on Joyce in a way that’s not healthy or prompting healthy choices. The only thing stopping her right this minute is that Joyce isn’t into her.
I’m pretty sure those of us who wanted consequences were expecting them to be more people calling out Joyce and Dorothy for their cheating and other shitty behavior.
Yeah, I’m REALLY confused by anyone who thinks Becky did something wrong (except having an emotional breakdown tangentially involving Dina). She didn’t cheat, not even emotionally. Consequences would be for Jorothy, not Becnah.
I thought people were trash goblins who wanted DRAMA? Isn’t this the DRAMA that people wanted to see?
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
Dina’s self-respect is phenomenal
She knows she deserves better than to be nursemaid for someone who can’t let go. Good for her.
Emotionally supporting your reeling girlfriend is behavior for “nursemaids” with no self-respect, is it?
This is not the time for Dina to demand answers from Becky. In an ideal world, Dina would help Becky regain equilibrium and then have an honest conversation when both their heads were on straight. If even then Becky can’t let go, a break up is warranted.
This isn’t an ideal world, though, and Dina can’t see past her own pain.
They’re both fucking up.
I think being expected to comfort your girlfriend because their friend who turned them down is now also dating girl is neither ideal nor healthy. Kind of seems incredibly bad for the relationship.
I mean. Becky didn’t expect to be comforted. That’s why she said “I should not be talking about this” and left (should she have went to Dina in the first place? Yeah probably not but I think it’s pretty clear she wasn’t thinking straight). Dina followed her here. I think it’s pretty clear she’s also upset (understandable!) & lashing out because of that, and it’s weird to me how many people are saying this was unequivocally the right thing to do, when it’s actually a little more messy, like interpersonal issues usually are. (Usual Disclaimer of “I think it’s actually great for characters to have flaws, this is a huge positive” like I’m not attacking Dina here or whatever.)
I said this elsewhere, but it’s hard for me to see any of this as “lashing out”. If anything she’s lashing out at herself. She said somethings that could hurt, but nothing angry or mean.
Oh, I was talking about Dina, not Becky! “You’re the problem” just seemed like a sort of cruel thing to say. Though one of your comments made me think about the miscommunication that’s sort of going on re: what the topic actually is, so I think I’d maybe take that back? It makes more “sense” in Dina’s context talking about being a rebound (like, it isn’t /her/ not being good enough, it’s Becky’s hang-up, which like,good on her for recognizing) – but not in Becky’s current state of self-loathing, where she’s absolutely talking (or at least thinking) about MORE than just her relationship to Dina.
good comments today btw!!
It’s just adding insult to injury, because not only were you not her first choice, if something changed you’d be dropped for them immediately. And you have to comfort them over that choice.
Even if Becky is shoving her away out of fear and trauma, this is an incredibly shitty situation to be put in. She’s not going to bury her staggering disappointment and lack of confidence in the relationship just because Becky is hurting, nor should she. Becky should’ve just said to talk about it later because she’s having a tough time, but she can’t cause she’s an extremely fucked up child.
Becky literally told Dina she shouldn’t talk to her about this, left Dina’s room, and went back to her own room.
Becky in no way tried to put this on Dina.
Dina followed Becky, despite being told they shouldn’t talk about it.
And if Dina’s motive had been to try to comfort Becky, I’d be a lot more understanding and empathetic toward Dina than I am (I still am…just not at much as I would have been)
Instead, it appears Dina chased down Becky to question her, to try to understand what this meant for *Dina.* To basically imply, “The math of your feelings is insulting to me.”
And as a fellow Autistic person…I totally get it! I’ve been there, I’ve made the mistake got the T-shirt.
But I still think it’s a mistake on Dina’s part. Becky rightly identified that her hurt feelings weren’t rational and she needed to be by herself for awhile. Dina came – not to comfort, but – to confront her. So yeah, emotionally expressive Becky said some stupid things too (like “If you’re just going to break up with me, then just do it.”
I have a lot of sympathy for both girls. But my own need to be left alone when my feelings are too intense to be managed safely, and my own frustration when that stated need is violated for someone else’s (secondary) need….means I’m feeling a bit more for Becky here, than for Dina.
Becky’s the center of pain here…if Dina wanted comfort, she should have found someone toward the outside of the circle of pain…not pushed it on the person experiencing the initial hurt.
Understandable – and great, realistic writing! – but the greater mistake in my view.
NOOOOOO!!!
DAMNN YOUUUUUUU WILLIS!!!!!
I’ve been wondering for years now whether Sarah’s ominous “You know you’re probably Becky’s rebound, right” declaration was ever getting follow-up. Kinda glad to see that loop closing. Not because I’m glad to see Becky and Dina in a rocky patch, but because it’s been like an itch in the back of my mind that I’ve always wondered if it would ever get addressed.
I wonder if Becky really saw Dina as second option, or it’s just her brain
I think she thought internally that she’d gotten over Joyce, then seeing Dorothy kissing her hit her with so much jealousy and resentment that it awakened old feelings. Stuff like this is never clean.
Oh I’m sure the comment section is going to have a rational and restrained conversation about this
So ration much restrain.
Sorry, my restraint has been rationed and my rationality is restrained.
Is “Damn You, Willis!!!” a rational and restrained conversation?
Asking for a friend.
Meh, there’s no law that says you have to be “rational” or “restrained” when interacting with art.
I just hope people are kind to each other. Otherwise they can whoop and holler or crash out in the comments, I think anywhere along that spectrum is fine.
oh no!
Oh my god… Genuinely thought this one was bulletproof. Wow.
Is it weird that I still kind of believe it’s bulletproof? I guess I won’t know for sure for a little bit. But the idea of these guys would break up doesn’t quite compute. Surely it would be resolved somehow? The alt text seems kind of damning though.
Feels a bit like a ‘break’ point, whether or not it’s mendable or not is up to them.
This might also finally get Dorothy and Joyce out of the love bubble considering Joyce will (maybe?) feel guilty and Dorothy has to room with Becky, so they might make some attempt to hep the two patch it up.
I suspect that’s where the plot, broadly, is going, yes. Dorothy and Joyce coming out of the 24-hour new fresh love love bubble, seeing what this has done to their friend group, and then going out to Try And Fix It (with heavily mixed results)
This really isn’t something Dorothy and Joyce “did” to Becky or Dina, though I agree they’re likely to feel responsible.
Exactly. It’s not their fault and it’s not something they can fix.
I don’t think it’s unrecoverable at this point, so no.
There’s a certain type of hurt you can feel where all you want to do is to try and make everyone understand what a lost cause you are. That you’re horrible. It gets amplified when the hurt you have makes you say shitty stuff; you can be aware in there that you’re being awful. But it all kind of rolls together.
Regrettably, in college or late high school is about when it ramps the fuck up , when you are probably the least prepared for it, also not in therapy, and in beckys case, perhaps we could say, has not had a loving family background providing support. It’s like how when you scrape your knee as a kid, its still inside the first couple of hundred times you’ve ever hurt this bad.
Mind you, I aint on one side or another. Dina don’t deserve that. It ain’t Beckys fault shes hurting over stuff she aint got the tools to get over.
Mostly I think I’m glad to be out of my 20s. Poor everybody, he says, enjoying the plotline immensely.
it does seem to be breakup central
Danny/Sal next!
If I cant have it, neither can any imaginary comic teen.
Ironic gravatar for that comment.
Plot twist Dina has moved to be next to Becky and that’s why you don’t see her in the last panel. The alt text is bait
Let us not forget that ultimately this is really Jocye’s fault. Blame her for everything.
There is at least ine oersonywho belives this unironically.
“Of course I know him, he’s me”
Yeah, Amber!
(this is a joke because amber blames herself for what happened)
What she intended to happen happened. Without her actions it would likely have been delayed until Joyce’s bond with Joe was stronger or had run its natural course. What Amber did not do was consider all the second order consequences.
So her blame is not misplaced.
But what does she do now? Will she collect her Walky as her trash goblin due? Will she act out of guilt and have Walky tossed out on his ear when he comes calling because she doesn’t deserve nice things? Or will she set her amazing mind to fixing things for Dina, without of course allowing for the secondary consequences?
Right below you, right on schedule
Joyce out here ruining everyones relationship and mental health.
Gj Joyce
Its astounding the ripple effects Joyce/Dorothy hooking up is causing. The whole friend group is shooketh
Joyce does not owe Becky reciprocation of her feelings. Joyce is not obligated to stay away from the woman she’s in love with because Becky’s in love with her. Becky, on the other hand, does owe Dina not being treated as a poor substitute for the girl she’s really in love with.
Alright, feel like the villainization of Joyce is getting to be a little much. This was a shoe that always needed to drop for Becky and Dina, just… not like this.
Darn you Joyce! Out here puppeteering Becky into saying crappy things because she’s hurt and upset. Out here telling Becky over and over that you’d totally get with her if you liked vag and then not immediately rushing to break her and Dina up as soon as you figured out you do! Darn youuuu!
Not Dina too. Damnit.
When the kiss first happened, I knew there was gonna be turbulence between becky and dina but I didn’t think it would actually lead to a break-up. Now I’m not so sure. (I hope if they do, it falls on halloween…)
I’m thinking this isn’t a breakup. I’m thinking this is a VERY rough patch and then a try to patch things up.
I mean, it was always gonna be an issue for them, kisses or not. Becky is still holding a torch for her old crush and Dina knows that no matter what she does she’s not Joyce and not the first choice. This just happened to be the catalyst.
Until Becky can finally move past attaching all her worth to Joyce’s attachment to her or lack there of everything then every relationship of hers will be in danger of this very same occurrence. Becky cannot give them the attention they need from a spouse and a spouse shouldn’t have an obligation to reassure a significant other whose whole hang up is being into somebody not you.
It’s a very tough and sad situation to be in, but if it’s a break up I cannot blame Dina in the slightest.
I don’t think its a breakup yet. But Dina is still hurt because becky is more upset about this despite being in a relationship with her.
If becky does bithing and wallows then yeah they might
IRL instead of in comic, but “there’s always more Halloweens.” (strip title “unforeseen”, links aren’t posting)
Cold, Dina.
Understandable, but cold.
Kind of expecting a fakeout. That line by itself could really mean a lot of things depending on what she says next. Which means it probably isn’t the obvious one.
But it could be!
It seems to me in the last panel, Dina is not present… so I think what she says next is going to be when she next sees Becky, the next day perhaps
i love u dinaaaaa regardless of whether they make up or not i just hope to get more dina development :-]
Mess, ahaha. Messssssss.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
It’s me, hi. I’m the problem, it’s me (I’m the problem, it’s me)
The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away 😔
THIS is what I was saying yesterday. However hard this is for Becky, however sad and emotional it is for her, and however relatable that heartbreak and trauma is, and IT IS: it is not Dina’s responsibility, at the end of the day. Of course, as Becky’s girlfriend, it is good of Dina to support and help her. But at the end of the day, Dina is allowed to decide, temporarily or permanently, that Becky’s emotions are not her responsibility. Especially when Dina has done NOTHING to impact Becky’s emotions about Joyce/Dorothy.
I hope these two make up. I hope they both get a breather and talk this out. They are my favorite couple in this comic. This sucks, so much, for Becky to go through, and I hope she gets help in getting through the emotional/mental turmoil. But I also support Dina looking at this situation and saying, “I have done nothing wrong in this situation. This is something Becky has to tackle about herself. “
Well put.
I don’t think it’s quite what you meant but “I have done nothing wrong in this situation. This is something Becky has to tackle about herself.“ is kind of a horrible approach to relationships.
Plenty of things where a partner might need comfort or support aren’t due to their partner having done something wrong.
Even in this situation this isn’t just about Becky still having feelings for Joyce, which it’s fair to say Dina shouldn’t have to deal with. It’s about her trauma about abandonment. About her fear of things like sexuality changes, which could in her mind render so much of the horrible things that happened to her pointless. Even Joyce being supported by her dad instead of attacked – that’s part of the: “It’s me. The problem is me.”
Nah it’s actually find to draw boundaries about what you will and won’t subject yourself to. If Dina is hurt too much by this, it’s fine for her to decide Becky should sort it out herself.
It isn’t supportive, but sometimes you have to protect your own feelings and wellness rather than supporting your partner at the expense of yourself. It’s a difficult line to draw, because requires a selfishness we generally don’t allow women in particular, but there’s nothing horrible about it.
Becky is being a jerk here, but it’s a reasonable reaction to what has happened to her. She’s spinning out, I’d be spinning the fuck out too, but she needs help from people who can do so without sinking down into the darkness with her.
No I get that sometimes you have to, it’s the framing it as “I did nothing wrong. You’re on your own” that struck me.
That’s fair. It’s not an ideal way to frame it, for sure.
That is not what I meant. And yes, having Dina support Becky would be good. That’s part of relationships: even if the current problem stems from something in your partner’s life, good partners support each other.
But while saying that, an important element to this is that Becky isn’t just upset about a personal thing that, if Dina ignored, wouldn’t hugely impact Dina. Like, if Dina just said “Whatever, your problem” about Becky having a fight with Walky and spiraling about it [as an admittedly unlikely example]. This event directly impacts Dina negatively as well. It hits at Dina’s looming insecurities as well. We saw how hurt and horrified she looked when Amber explained things to her. We know that she feared this day, from Sarah talking to her. And frankly, I think it’s a little unfair for people who understand that Becky should have space imperfectly because she is swimming in her insecurities, are telling Dina to do the ideal “partners should support each other” as Dina is ALSO facing a huge insecurity around Becky and Joyce. Just because Dina is being more quiet and less outwardly expressive about it doesn’t mean she isn’t hurting. Especially given her shocked reaction to Becky renouncing God, then learning why from Amber, having Becky give her no attempt at an explanation, and then coming to talk about it and having Becky not even address her directly and admit she is the problem.
Yes, ideally, Dina would set aside her immediate emotions to bolster Becky. Also ideally, Becky wouldn’t put her in this position in the first place. Obviously this is not an ideal situation for ANYONE. But Dina handling the confirmation of her own insecurities by confirming the truth that this situation between the two of them—in terms of their relationship— stems from Becky is: a) true, and b) well within the realms of Dina getting her own “check out”response. And in this situation, which impacts them BOTH, Dina has done nothing wrong, but is still stuck having it hurt her as collateral damage. That is the situation I was referring to. The current one. Not any hypothetical “my partner is having a random problem/emotional reaction/hard time, but I just don’t feel like caring about them.”
Honestly I just wanted more Dina focus. So, sure. If this’s how the monkey paw’s gonna curl, I’ll take it.
Well, shit. ☹️
Jeez Becky. Would it kill you to give [I]any[/I] affirmation whatsoever that you still think Dina’s great?
I see it’s arrows not brackets.
Jeez Becky. Would it kill you to give any affirmation whatsoever that you still think Dina’s great?
Right now, she can’t even see that as in question. The problem is her. Of course Dina’s going to leave her because the problem is her.
so many people in this comments section seem to only be able to relate to a character acting mentally ill, when that character has exactly the same mental illness that they do. Their blorbos can do no wrong, because everything their blorbo does is “completely understandable,” in the sense that they can directly, personally relate to it; but, when a character they aren’t able to easily and directly project themselves onto starts behaving mentally ill, that character is a mean, heartless bongo who deserves criticism and correction.
Like shit, I don’t get why empathy for everybody is so hard.
…is this…for me…? I really don’t feel like commenting about Becky not noticing or responding to Dina’s multiple attempts at affirmation seeking is proof that I cannot empathize with Becky. Weird comment to put this take under.
Oooph!
Well this is terrible. Awful, for both Dina and Becky. I completely understand why Dina would be pissed, realizing that she was just “the secondary” because Becky’s feelings for Joyce neither worked out the way she wanted or went away. And she is correct. This is Becky’s emotional problem to work out. I hope she realizes that solving that problem can involve seeking professional help, and I hope it doesn’t keep Dina and Becky apart for too long.
Back at the beginning of the semester (which was basically Act 1 of DoA Season 2), Becky listed all the great things happening in her life, including being with Dina. You should NEVER say that sort of thing during Act 1.
Yeah, “I shouldn’t have said it out loud” isn’t the solution to your crippling fear of abandonment, Becky. You gotta get therapy.
Also, that being your only response is [going to come across to Dina, at least] as confirmation that you’re indeed still into Joyce and Dina was just consolation. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that “if Joyce could be X for Dorothy, why couldn’t she for me” just wounded your pride and struck at your fear of change/abandonment. I hope that’s the case even if it takes some therapy for you to realize it–and if Dina breaks up with you in the meantime I hope you can win her back by explaining this (she’s pretty rational so perhaps you can).
Simply obtain one (1) therapy, available for cheap or free at the local therapy store, no strings attached.
We did figure out yesterday that IU has walk-in zero-cost on-campus counseling services at their health center.
I vaguely remember we’ve also been told in-world that the therapists at IU are not great.
I can’t remember if that’s intended to be a “fact” or if it’s extrapolated from Dorothy not getting good therapy due to misleading the therapist.
I think there was an actual comment, though I don’t remember where, but that still can just be a character’s opinion. Ruth and probably even Jennifer do seem to have been helped.
It was Walky in reference to Amber, though he admitted he wasn’t speaking from first-hand experience.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/01-this-bright-millennium/herselves/
Fully extrapolating from my own myriad of experiences, but with full regard to the fact that Becky absolutely NEEDS a wider support system and a set of trusted mental health professionals that can help her process the incredible amount of deeply ingrained trauma that she has gone through, IMO 95% of the time going to any school counselor and telling them that you’re explicitly dealing with suicidal ideation (intrusive or otherwise) is usually a one-way ticket to some of the worst, actively unhelpful mental health services you’ll ever experience.
From admittedly a sample size of 1, going to a (different) state university’s on-campus mental health services with suicidal ideation and a plan was a one-way ticket to really good supportive care and a lifelong functioning CBT practice, for me at least. I didn’t even get meds prescribed when I was really pushy about not wanting them (even though there were full-on psychiatric services available if necessary, just the CBT stuff and pretty good regular outpatient therapy which fortunately worked amazingly well for me. And this was back in the late 1990s when the stigma was worse than now.
In my experience, it’s a real mixed bag. The first counselor I saw through the on-campus counseling center was shitty and discouraged me from wanting to seek services. There was another counselor who facilitated a group I was in, and she was good there, but I heard from a number of people who saw her as their therapist that there were some real issues. (At the time, she was basically the designated LGBTQ+ therapist, so I got comments from multiple sources.)
Then I got people who immediately tried to refer to to off-campus stuff because the counseling center was really overwhelmed, ignoring that some of these places would be pretty difficult for me to get to (no car, limited time window between classes when taking bus routes could take 45+ min to get there) and I was worried about cost.
That said, when I was at my most suicidal, I did see an okay counselor who referred me to the psychiatry center (before, I was getting meds through the primary care medical services on campus), and a social worker there was so incredibly kind that I still think about it. Granted, this wasn’t lasting because I was starting the process of withdrawing for the semester, but it did make a difference for me.
Totes fair, and I’m genuinely very happy you were able to get that long-term support you needed, like truly. I think that level of care and follow-through should always be the end result of good mental health service, and it’s genuinely incredibly nice to hear when that actually happens.
I will cop to the fact that my spectacularly bad run with using mental health services makes it hard for me to not paint the whole industry as abjectly worse than it might be in reality (shoutout to my last therapist for telling me “I was doing the therapy wrong” for sitting in the sofa chair in all our sessions and not on the chaise lounge), and I will also cop that being financially insecure, black and NB has also probably affected how medical practitioners have treated me, so all I can really say without having to divulge my full mental health history in public is that I’ve been in therapy on and off since the 7th grade for MDD, and like, straight up, there is 0 way to talk about suicidal thoughts or experiences these days (even in the past tense) that does not immediately flag you as a potential threat to others or to yourself, and that in of itself is such a double edged sword.
Emotionally when the best case scenario is spent having condescending conversations where you have to use borderline-“unalive” language to just to prove you have an unreasonable emotional detachment to your OWN trauma, and at worst you risk your personal autonomy stripped away via an involuntary trip psychiatric hospital, it’s *incredibly* hard thread that needle in a way that actually gets you the help you need, y’know?
Bringing this all back to the comic, I DO think Becky needs help, and I DO think that she would probably benefit from getting actually professional help, but I do also wince when I see the general response to someone in active in-the-moment crisis be “just go see a therapist/school counselor”, because I know just how BAD it can reinforce those same negative feelings when the “professional” does not have the tools, resources, and worst case scenario, the care to help you.
Totally fair, and I have had friends who’ve had INCREDIBLY bad encounters with the mental health care system in the US (especially in the rural hell I grew up in).
Becky is probably in a kind of 60/40 kind of situation, being a white woman lesbian in Indiana in 202X, with a frission of “she’s already been in the news as a victim, and it’s reasonably likely that every campus employee is going to give her the white-glove experience to avoid bad publicity”.
First: extra big Internet gesture of support for I Know Why the Mowed Lawn Screams.
Second: complicating all of this is that Ruth specifically had a good experience, and it’s the one we saw the most of.
Willis is definitely trying to portray therapy as more of a mixed bag, but Amber is such a specific case: having DID, which is more complicated and scary to your average therapist than depression, but also having been sent to therapists by her abusive father, who wouldn’t exactly have sought the best possible matches for her, especially since he didn’t take her anxiety or PTSD seriously.
So for the average reader, “book Becky a room in the same hospital that helped Ruth” seems like the most obvious outcome of getting her professional help, and that makes it easy to root for, even as folks with more complicated experiences with out nation’s mental healthcare keep speaking up to say it’s not that simple.
IIRC, Amber was specifically sent to martial arts classes instead of therapy by her abusive father. Unless she went recently, I don’t think she’s been at all.
Yeah, I was going to say the same. (I just wanted to be able to link to the strip and am technically working, so…)
I do think she might have gone (possibly being strong armed into it) during the timeskip, but probably only a couple times, and found it lacking.
She definitely also did that… but I think the “Indiana therapists aren’t great” came from Walky repeating something he’d heard from Amber. I extrapolated, but perhaps incorrectly!
That’s when the other two Dinas swoop in, and they slash you like this and this, spilling your intestines. My point is you’re alive when they start to eat you.
fffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Clever girl
And not in the fun way this time.
Unless you’re into vore, I guess.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA- oh hey how long’s that Persepolis movie poster been there that movie rocks
I noticed it in the background yesterday too! Probably Dorothy’s?
Pretty much forever. It’s been a consistent part of Dorothy’s room decor since first semester.
I really like this strip. I feel like this piece of relationship drama has been done well at least and I hope we get more hard conversations.
Actually so excited about this. I’ve been wanting a storyline from Dina outside of her being Becky’s girlfriend for a while now – if a breakup(?) can get us there, great. Also great potential story stuff for Becky, even if it looks really dire (who does she even have to turn to?). I do love when characters I like are miserable it’s just compelling
It’ll also be nice to develop BECKY outside of her relationships, she basically went from a crush on a girl to a relationship with a different girl, what’s a solo Becky to do?
While that’s true about romantic relationships specifically, Becky already has connections to other characters that have gotten focus – Leslie, Robin, Dorothy & Joyce & her dad ofc come to mind. Dina has other friends, but storywise (outside of the Becky/Dina relationship) she’s often played a supporting role or been a comedy relief.
Not that I don’t want more for Becky, I like Becky, but I REALLY want to see more of Dina.
I mean Leslie would probably be the perfect person for her to turn to right now. She had a similar upbringing and has almost certainly experienced a similar-ish situation to this
If this relationship does implode . . . Hmmm . . . Joe x Dina, anyone?
maybe? would make for some interesting chemistry,
but like, it’d be nice even to see Dina focus on learning to love herself more for a while T-T <3
ideally Becky too, although I wouldn't hold my breath for her in particular
That would be incredible Drama-Storyline Synergy
The thought had crossed my mind.
She will do science to him.
Not opposed to it, especially since they’ve found mutual new found respect for each other’s company, but I think we’d need more of them together because I am not getting a vibe of romantic capabilities as they are now.
Oh holy knife twist.
Your childhood crush rejects you and it turns out its NOT because they’re straight.
And then your girlfriend leaves you and dates the physical representation of testosterone.
Why don’t Dorothy start inviting Joyce over for door sock sessions while we’re at it.
Could someone please give that poor girl a hug?
Which one? Both
Damn, it’s gonna be awkward when Dorothy goes back to her room.
What about when Dina goes back to her room with the person who told her that she caused this.
But yeah. Good times ahead.
She can buy new clothing on line and stay away indefinitely
Hmm. I wonder if Dina left to get Becky the resources she needs to sort through her abandonment issues.
I’m operating on a reasonable% chance that this is actually what Dina is doing, and it’s so self-evident to her that it’s the right thing to do, that she didn’t need to explain it on the way out, and thus, by the time she gets back with help, Becky will have fucking disappeared, fueling even more drama.
People were saying that Willis wouldn’t split these two up…
Are you guys still sure?
Welp, you beans’d it hard there Becks
(can this please not be bad faith interpreted again like yesterday?)
Are you at all familiar with the Internet?
I now invoke the ancient ways, and incant the olden words, as so it was written now it is again:
DAMN YOU WILLIS
Well this awful 😖
*Whelp this is awful 😖
*Welp
🦖😭💔🫂
they been together for so long… with any hope this end will mean new beginnings for both of them
it just has to… I just know it 🥺
*plays “Miracle Tears” by Shinji Miyazaki*
In terms of actual comic time yes in terms of comic times its been only a few months so quite short 😔 😢 😭
Good for Dina, I know Becky is going through it, I know her life’s been tough and she’s suffered a lot. But expecting Dina to swallow up her own hurt and be the most perfect, rational, stoic rock for Becky is ridiculous.
Bring on the mess!
As a side note please dont break up Carla and Charlie.
Now you’ve done it.
I mean, Carla and Charlie are pretty much already broken up. Carla doesn’t have the power to divest her parents’ entire company from all of their defense contracts, and I feel like that’s clearly what it’s gonna take for Charlie to be able to ethically accept a relationship with her?
Can’t even get too sad about this. Dina’s 100% right, she was a rebound and that was never solid ground for a serious relationship.
I think it’s a little more complicated than that. Becky has shown deep investment in this relationship for a while and I suspect understands intellectually that her connection with Dina is way more real than yearning for an idealized image of Joyce. What we’re seeing now is that logic clash with how Becky has tangled up her emotions by tethering her self-worth to Joyce.
At least it’s all out in the open now. I never was too attached to Becky and Dina as a couple (Dina belongs with her true loves, Ruth and Gino), so I’m not especially torn up or worried about the idea of them breaking up. Becky spending some time single might even be good for her, who knows.
yeah, I’d love to see Dina focus on loving herself for a while (and ideally Becky)
I’m legit crying right now, Dina did what was for the best, but this is still really painful for her 😭
this relationship has lasted so long, they have long stood as this comic’s number one couple, it really is the end of an era
there is this bittersweetness, in all this sadness, I can’t help but feel a few of my tears are… happy? hopeful?
with this ending will come positive new beginnings will come, I just know it 🥹
See Stockholm syndrome.
((just kidding))
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/hottie/
*taps the sign*
Why Ruth, and who’s Gino?
I don’t have to respond to this blatant journalistic harassment.
Gino is Jason’s step-sister.
TAFFY! TAFFY! CAN YOU RESPOND TO THE RUMORS THAT YOU’VE BEEN HARBORING A SECRET CRUSH ON A BACKGROUND CHARACTER FOR YEARS?
I’ll answer this one, sure. I think these rumor are bogus, because they rely on two key words: “a” and “secret”. There’s a degree of plurality here, in that I’ve been Normal™ about several background characters over the many many years I’ve been polluting this website. In regards to the “secret” aspect of the rumors, I have always been very open about which characters I’m Normal™ about, and I’ve been met with very little surprise each time. For instance, Norville and Meredith are two of my favorite extras, and I’ve always been very transparent about that fact. Hopefully, this helps quell the rumor mill somewhat. I know people love their parasocial speculation.
Listen, I’m gonna write this quote into the article, but it’s going to be out of context AND out of order so it says what I need it to say. You understand.
For the clicks.
Honestly didn’t think it’d go this way this quickly but good for Dinah.
I agree. I’m really grateful to see Dina conclude this isn’t a good relationship for her, and act accordingly.
I do really hope Becky seeks help, and doesn’t die from this BUT both of those are also Becky’s responsibility to take care of herself, and not Dina’s responsibility to sacrifice herself because someone else is being self destructive. “please accept me as a substitute, and accept a relationship so that you have comfort from the emotions you’re not dealing with or processing” is … really heckin destructive to both the self and the other, in different ways. (Its been very few folks here saying that they’d hoped Dina would self sacrifice here but, it… reminds me of people telling me I should have dated a boy I didn’t like because he tried to end himself when I said no thank you, and that’s… its horrible to live in a society where the expectation is that you’ll give up your own sexuality and ability to form relationships to patch another person’s emotional holes and deny them the opportunity to rise up to the challenge and grow. Being autistic and appearing woman doesn’t mean you exist to act as a warm body to comfort others through their shit.)
I feel like this is a really soothing juxtaposition to Dorothy/Joyce, where I have a sinking feeling that they primarily got together because Dorothy was clearly being self destructive, and Joyce decided that fixing that by giving Dorothy a relationship was more important than anything else.
Love the comment, Fish! Well, not about the people pressuring you, obviously. My condolences about that.
Part of growing and becoming a better person is learning how to take care of yourself, managing your emotions, and being responsible. Trauma and mental illness can make this a lot harder but you still have to do it or you will only end up hurting yourself and others.
Kindness, support AND consequences are all important!
Didn’t Dorothy have a relationship already? Of course it was with Walky, so from Joyce’s POV it was probably worse than no relationship.
Good for Dina for standing up for herself. I just wish it wasn’t in a way that would make Becky want to put a gun in her mouth.
I don’t think there’s a way to tell Becky that she’s making this worse than it needs to be without being this blunt. Especially from Dina, who Becky knows “feels things more strongly, and has trouble expressing it.”
I don’t get why everybody is desperately in love with Joyce. I don’t like the Mary Sue way this is getting.
Joyce is Willis self-insert. so yeah…
Three people ain’t “everybody.”
Three people is everybody? It’s a pretty big cast.
“Everybody”?? I’m sure that would come as news to Raidah, Asma, Carla, Walky, Danny, Asher…
I would’nt say they’re breaking up they’re just…on the rocks.
Hej folx,
…Just in case anyone is finding the discussion triggering, so to speak, I thought perhaps this list could bear reposting. You know me… I speak in lists. List-making is my thing.
Some of these free support services do have direct connections to police and emergency medical responders. Members of vulnerable populations might want to ask that up front, or sift through these lists to find services that explicitly deny connections with law enforcement.
Subject-specific “help lines” around the world:
findahelpline.com
insighttimer.com/help-now
International support network for people who question their sensory perceptions:
intervoiceonline.org/national-networks#content
Crisis and mental health support in the UK and Ireland:
samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/if-youre-having-difficult-time/other-sources-help
Social services and supports around the USA for everyday needs:
helpguide.org/find-help
findhelp.org
211.org (service referral guides in every US State)
(Or 211.ca for community support navigation in Canada)
For help paying bills in hard times:
needhelppayingbills.com
Legal Aid in every state:
lawhelp.org
US Immigration Legal Aid:
immi.org
Peer-run “warm lines” (volunteer listening ears) In the USA:
warmline.org
stage.nami.org/NAMI/media/NAMI-Media/Helpline/NAMI-National-HelpLine-WarmLine-Directory.pdf
power2u.org/consumer-run-statewide-organizations
Public Health Agency crisis lines across the USA:
councilforhelplines.org/member-organizations
PTSD “self-coaching” phone app:
ptsd.va.gov/appvid/mobile/ptsdcoach_app.asp
TransLifeLine (not always operational):
translifeline.org/resources
Free talk support and anonymous online chat for survivors:
thehotline.org
hotline.rainn.org/online
Lastly, folks who just don’t feel safe living in the States any more might try the “Help Me Leave” guide:
helpmeleave.us
Caring —
lists are good. thank you <3
I guess this kind of why I like sharing mood-matching music too
just… feels right
Yeah. You always have good music suggestions, NG.
More than that, though, NG, you are kind. You are a kind person. I know you try real hard to be gentle in this forum. That means a lot. It actually means so much.
(I think maybe there have been a few misunderstandings between us, over the years. But you keep showing up, with consistent words of kindness and encouragement and support. I hope you know how valuable that is.)
I hope you know how valuable and valued and important you are. I do hope you know that. That your voice adds value to the community. I feel like you keep showing up to give support to others. That’s rare.
AWW thanks :’) T-T
Thank you.
You are so welcome, not someone else.
Love the avvy, BTW.
Didn’t post much so I’ll give my own two thoughts.
Becky is obviously someone who feels her feelings deeply and has suffered a lot of loss. She clearly fears paradigm shifts and her best friend not loving her the way she loves her is a huge sticking point for her. She is probably not acting rationally or thoughtfully with how she speaks or acts right now.
However
I remember long ago reading something someone said that stuck with me. My Mental Illness/Trauma may “explain” my actions. But it doesn’t always EXCUSE my actions. Certainly I, and by an extension Becky can extend extra patience to her knowing how deeply rooted her trauma is. But also it feels wrong to completely discount how Becky’s words make Dina feel. Even when I’m spiraling. Even when I’m having a panic attack, I’m still responsible for the words I say. For the way I make those around me feel. Especially my loved ones. Dina is well within her rights to find her outbursts offensive and hurtful, even with the knowledge of what Becky is going through.
Personally I think it’s good to get this all out in the open. There’s been this air hanging over the couple since it began that Dina is Becky’s silver medal and both of them have been kinda pushing past it without confronting it. But now that it’s in the forefront they can have an earnest conversation and hopefully reach an understanding.
i’ve heard it as, “intent is not magic”
like it *does* matter that the hurt wasn’t intentional! but it still happened nonetheless, and if you don’t recognize that, it’s too easy to fall into the trap of “being right” instead of “caring for the other person”
My uncle, who survived intense, life-hijacking Bipolar: “It’s not always my fault, but it is always my responsibility.” As in, even when the illness was the cause of a lash-out or other hurtful behavior, it was still his job to take care of the fallout/impact on himself and others.
this is the hardest, but most important, lesson everybody needs to internalize in the process of becoming an adult, whether mentally ill or not. The fact that fault and responsibility can be so divorced from one another, and that the second thing is the one that’s truly important, is something that some people go all the way to their graves without ever really internalizing.
Very well-put.
Intent isn’t magic and trauma isn’t an excuse, but at the same time, Becky’s not lashing out here. I’d have trouble even calling anything she’s said an outburst.
But then I don’t see Becky thinking in terms of “Dina is Becky’s silver medal” here, rather than in terms of “everyone leaves me, Dina will too”.
If Becky being with her is proof of a God and Joyce dating a woman is proof of a Lack of a God, I cannot really fault Dina from taking this as Becky still prioritizing Joyce over her. It would be like your husband being distraught that his ex-wife is getting remarried. You’d be supportive to a point but you gotta think “why do you still care so much? You’re married to ME not HER.”
Becky probably didn’t think through what she’s saying, but what she’s saying is implying some hurtful things to Dina. And even if Becky said them as emotional outbursts it doesn’t stop it from implying something that Dina has been worried about for the brunt of their relationship.
Yeah, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for Dina to be hurt by her words, but I still wouldn’t describe it as “lashing out” or even an outburst.
And again, I don’t Becky is just or even mostly spiraling over Joyce dating a woman.
It not being lashing out or an outburst is actually worse in this context. If she was just lashing out I could say she’s saying careless hurtful stuff cuz she’s emotional. If she’s not then it basically shows where Becky’s priorities are.
What does? Saying she’s the problem? Saying if Dina’s going to leave, just do it?
Yep. It’s actually hurtful for people to accuse you of leaving you. I know shes speaking out of abandonment issues so I cut her slack but from dina’s perspective I can see her feeling like it disregards all the effort she put into making Becky feel comfortable and safe.
Actually, it’s kind of wild that you’re the first person I’ve seen point this out in a direct way. At the end of the day, if your partner tells you “you’re going to leave me,” there’s no way for them to not hear the implied truth of “I don’t trust you.”
Becky may have the best existing explanations for being hideously insecure about this particular anxiety, and Dina may be the member of the cast who puts the least stock in the murky implications lurking underneath the thing that was directly said; but, even if Dina was unrealistically mature, and fully prepared for dealing with the situation of having a partner this plagued by serious mental illness, she still can’t reasonably hear what Becky is saying, without knowing through cold logic, that “you’re my second choice” and “I don’t trust you” are implicit truths inherent to Becky having the feelings that she does.
Like, if my partner said this stuff to me, I would know they don’t mean it, and I would know it’s a result of their agitated state; but, I’m 35, and my partner and I have been exclusively dealing with mentally ill peer groups for 15-20 years, apiece. Knowing they don’t mean it, doesn’t mean I don’t think it, and there’s no way I could possibly think those specific things – even knowing they are false – without being deeply hurt by them, even if I knew with complete certainty, that said feelings were transient states from which my partner would eventually recover.
It certainly can be hurtful, but I don’t think it says anything about where her priorities are.
They’re not on Dina, that much is clear.
Becky is lashing out AT HERSELF. DINA is taking it as an attack on HER. I think that’s what all the confusion in the comments is about.
I’ve learned even self loathing can hurt those around you. It’s complicated
How’s that saying go? When you insult yourself, you’re insulting a friend of mine?
Sometimes I’ve heard people say things like, “Hey, don’t say that about my friend.”
I think Becky and Dina both need to get in line behind Joe in the queue for “People Who Really Need A Hug Right Now”.
I think they can skip to the front of the line. This is rough and Joe still has hope so he can wait a little for his hug.
Also, why is there a line? Hugs aren’t a limited resource.
They kinda are in the sense that time is finite and at some point every hug must end.
I’m not grasping your premise. I’m pretty sure a good enough hug, fully stops time and space?
Seems like there’s an obvious solution if both Becky and Dina need hugs right now.
damn when did questionable content get so heavy
Why are there so many CQ comments here? It’s really weird to read.
Why’s there so much My Little Pony chatter in the Steven Universe forum?
you didn’t have to go and kill us all with a bat, lol
Killing people with a bat? I don’t know why people are always acting like I’m so aggressive, but I would never violently murder the entirety of the Steven Universe or My Little Pony fandoms with a bat. I’d never do that. Ever. Where did you even get the idea that I would commit murder against a large group of people, using a bat? Likely a baseball bat, made of aluminum probably? I would never do that. Not even to Steven Universe fans.
My guess: QC stopped having a forum a few years ago, and both comics are having parallel arcs today (someone breaking up with someone else because of a mental health issue getting in the way of the relationship), and folks don’t have an outlet on the QC side.
There is a QC discord.
Discords are impossible to actually start talking in without feeling like an intrusive weirdo who is bugging everyone and also that you’ll probably get yelled at for saying something in the wrong 1/1000 channels
I think it’s more the fact that the on-site poll references QC directly, and also that a whole lot of us only found this strip through its consistent collabs with QC over the years. There’s a high number of QC readers here, and the poll jokingly called us out, so it’s on our minds, now.
Also Jeph is correct to not have a forum for his comic, because my only knowledge about the broader QC community is that it bullied a writer to self-harm for [checks notes] not drawing their favorite character the way they believed he should.
honestly I wouldn’t fault even Willis for shutting down the comments section, even though this one isn’t half as bad.
Having to manage an official forum where people get mean all the time is exhausting work.
Wait, WHAT THE KENTUCKY FRIED FUCK?
Yeah, if you never found out, that’s why Jeph stabbed his hand that one time. Forumites decided that he had started subtly drawing Marigold as skinnier and more attractive, and they felt that it was a personal slight against them, influenced by his obviously-deep fatphobia or something. I don’t know the actual specifics of it, but ultimately, she was their Goblin Goddess Girl, and they started to believe he was drawing her more as a Normie unconsciously, and they made him feel accountable for making Marigold “less ugly,” and thus, misogynistic, or something.
I’m still not honestly clear if he ever was doing that thing, or if there was a noticeable difference. But people decided that’s what they saw, and then they decided it was deliberate on Jeph’s part, and then decided that was a personal slight against them, and then they decided to harass him about it.
1) overlapping fandoms
2) the poll lampshading the overlapping fandoms?
i know dina doesn’t always do eye contact herself but seems kinda inappropriate for becky to be looking at her phone instead of dina right now
She’s trying to numb her feelings.
Ir isn’t working very well.
a lot of people in these comments have never dissociated from a trauma response, and it shows
Yeah, that’s about right.
also to take peoples’ minds off of this for a second
WHY DO ALL MY FRIENDS HAVE SHINIES IN LEGEND ZA? I’VE BEEN SHINY HUNTING FOR THE LAST COUPLE HOURS AND I HAVEN’T FOUND A SINGLE ONE. AND YET ALL OF THEM HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH! Am I just unlucky!?
nah, it’s because mammalian brains often forget that random distribution is not the same thing as even distribution
keep at it, it’s not like you can keep missin the shots forever brotha
Who’s the hottest trainer/leader/whatever in the new game? Nobody I know can justify rewarding Nintendo’s greed, so I haven’t been hearing about it through the usual channels.
Hard to say. Emma’s pretty popular right now, but also so is Canari, the streamer.
Both are Cute tbh
Jacinthe
Lebanne x Jacinth toxic yuri seems to be making the rounds
Update: I caught a Shiny Machoke. Wasn’t the shiny I was looking for but beggars can’t be choosers.
I only have the default shiny Mareep, but also this is the first Pokémon game I’ve enjoyed enough to care about, so fingers crossed!
Can ya’ll give some opinions on Z-A? I haven’t played a Pokémon game since Sword and Shield. I fell out of it cause it was getting stale and Scarlet and Violet looked and ran very poorly on Switch 1 so I skipped it. Is Z-A worth coming back? I kinda miss Pokémon.
It’s very different from Sword and Shield, mainly because it uses the same mechanics as Pokémon Legends: Arceus.
Rather than battling pokémon in a static 1v1 environment, you can catch them without even having to battle them just by throwing a pokéball at it. However, they can also attack you without engaging in a Pokémon battle.
You mentioned that you stopped playing Sword and Shield because it was getting stale. You’ll be pleased to know that Legends: Z-A’s very much a break from the standard pokémon formula, but not a total detachment, and I would recommend it if you’re looking for something different, yet familiar.
However, I would suggest playing it on the Switch 2, as I’ve heard reports that it runs very slowly on the Switch 1, to the point of being near unplayable. Same goes for Scarlet and Violet if you’re looking to get back into the mainstream series.
Honestly so far between this game and Legends Arceus I’d actually say Legends Arceus is a more interesting shakeup to the formula than this one. But so far I’m having fun. My main complaints being that the small map size makes the game and environments a bit repetitive and it holds your hand for ENTIRELY too long.
But yeah it’s the most fun I’ve had with a pokemon game since Arceus. The main shakups are in how battles work, being more realtime battles where you can selectively dodge moves by positioning and switching out strategically. Which gives every battle an inherently dynamic feel to it.
I too am bereft of shinies, I only have the scripted one.
Mesnwhile my partner, who has played less than half as much as me, got *two* within a minute of each other. yes I’m incredibly jealous, even if they are two of the most common shinies and I have them on other games (skiddo & litleo)
AGH I’m jealous. My friend group keeps posting all their shinier. They’ve all got like 4-5 (not counting mareep). One guy has TWO gold magikarp. TWO? Gee Billy!
I envy you, my husband’s put a strict Nintendo boycott on the house and my will is weak. Esp because I loved Legends Arceus so much
RE: alt text – I guess Bulmeria is no longer an option
Goddammit, can life stop shitting on Becky for just a little bit?!
Yes. Good. It’s quite cold out. Becky and Dina’s relationship is good fuel for the fire. This friend group is burning nicely.
I’d say the problem is more the bad behavior of Becky’s oldest friend and her new girlfriend, but sure, whatever. Can’t really blame Dina for feeling this way though.
The only bad behaviour Joyce and Dorothy ever did towards Becky was enabling her bullshit. If they’d gone, “no, you don’t get to treat Dorothy this way, cut that shit out right the fuck now” when Becky went out of her way to antagonise her we wouldn’t be here right now.
I agree. You can hate Dorothy and Joyce all you want for being filthy, selfish cheaters. You can’t place responsibility for Becky’s fragile emotional state on them. She’s had a toxic possessiveness of Joyce for possibly their entire friendship. Becky’s the one that sees herself as not good enough, she’s the one who doesn’t value Joyce’s familial love, she’s the one who only sees Dina as a consolation prize.
I feel for Becky. She’s in a very bad mental state and possibly saying stuff she’ll regret when she’s in a better head space. She needs support, but we can’t let that release her from her responsibility in how she copes with her own emotions and her bad behavior.
I still think this is still hitting a lot deeper than the toxic possessiveness.
This is more of a “I’m not good enough for Joyce->I’m not good enough for anyone. I’m why my dad couldn’t accept me like Hank did for Joyce. I’m why Dina’s leaving me. I’m why my mom killed herself.”
That’s very likely, especially since comments have been somehow finding out what the title of the next chapter is. But Becky’s deeper issues of abandonment and self worth aren’t Joyce and Dorothy’s fault either. Joyce has been especially supportive of Becky and Dorothy even tolerated her performative rivalry antics because she knew Becky kind of needed that as a coping mechanism. Everyone around her has been a pretty great friend to Becky.
Like has Becky been to grief counseling? Has she been regularly talking with Leslie or been honest about her emotions with her friends and partner? She could need therapy, she could need meds, or even just space, but whatever her problems are they’ve actually been problems for awhile and it’s kind of just been ignored.
The archive always shows the chapter names for the whole book (in this case, book 16).
Oh give me a break. There’s no reasonable way to put this on Joyce & Dorothy at all.
They went out of their way to try to protect her from finding out from the newspaper.
Becky’s never given any indication of being kinky, but even if she was, I doubt she’s into being stabbed in the heart.
Actually I’m guessing this is going to turn into some kind of “pep talk.” Though knowing Dina, well, who knows, maybe she’s gonna straight up say what it seems like she’s about to say.
Becky is not kinky ?
Becky is like a mega sub in a subbed relationship with an ACE dominant, but you don’t see any kink
BLINK
I mean, I read the Slipshine, all their sex seemed pretty vanilla to me. Becky thought they’d invented “69-ing” for Cthulhu’s sake. I’d say it takes more to qualify as kinky than just like, liking to be led in the bedroom.
Realizing that very few people are gonna see this, I nevertheless wish to say for posterity’s sake:
Let us look at the semantic construction of BDSM. It stands for Bondage and Domination, Dominance and Submission, and Sadism and Masochism.
Bondage and Domination would be like the actual kinky acts, like if Becky liked to be tied up or spanked. Dominance and Submission, if Becky wanted Dina to fake-force her to do things or wanted her to be in control of some aspect of her life. Sadism and Masochism, if Becky liked Dina to inflict pain on her. If those, I only see a LITTLE bit of D&S, but not enough that it twigs as “kink” for me. Not even something relatively vanilla like orgasm denial. Becky and Dina seem like a lovely Victorian milkshake to me; vanilla and gay.
Dina, your feelings are valid but uh. Those blunt words to a girl that’s lost so uch in the past what 4 months? I.. fear for Becky. ( In a healthy ” she’s not real” way)
Yeah, people are talking above about how even in the middle of a crisis, trauma and depression don’t excuse not considering how your words might hurt other people: Dina saying that to Becky in Becky’s current state is much more worse than anything Becky said.
At least assuming, as the comic presents it, she said that and left.
Wow, I can’t believe that “Extremely Distressed Teenagers Have Imperfect Social Skills: The Comic” didn’t have the characters sit around and perfectly employ therapy-speak at each other for 20 strips to easily disentangle all their anxieties and solve all their life’s problems, in a neat and efficient way. It’s so unbelievable that these evil creatures would be so callous, as to not have a practiced, adult understanding of how to cope with their issues. This comic would be much better if it was about a 40 year olds book club of professional therapists, instead.
Neither of these posters said or alluded to anything remotely resembling any part of that. Demanding praise for a character for their actions 24/7 regardless of what they do or if you personally find it shitty directly contributes to the death of media literacy.
Y’know, since the implied options are “say they dislike how Dina handled the situation,” “agree with Dina’s decision/say they dislike how Becky handled things,” or “say nothing at all.”
we got the potatoes, time for the MEAT
I WILL BURN ALL THE THINGS
This is one of those situations where both sides of this are understandable.
I’m actually kind of proud of Dina for having boundaries, especially after so much chatter in the comment section to the effect of “oh no poor Becky, where’s Dina when you need her?”, which… I too was sympathetic to Becky’s feelings, but the more I saw it, especially in combination with folks lambasting Joyce for cruely “causing” Becky’s heartbreak, the more it felt like a lot of people were forgetting that Dina would likely have her own complicated painful feelings about Becky being so devastated — feelings it didn’t seem fair to ask her to just swallow in order to comfort Becky.
At the same time: Becky is in a really, REALLY bad place right now, and while I’m heartened to see Dina refuse to just take Becky basically confirming that she was, indeed, a consolation prize, this was also definitely the very last thing Becky needed to hear at this very moment.
Ideally, I think, Dina would call in someone else to be with Becky right now — because Becky really shouldn’t be alone, but it is genuinely okay for Dina not to feel up to fulfilling that particular role right now. Unfortunately, I’m not sure who else Dina could call, because Becky, like Walky, is kind of lacking in close friends at IU.
Maybe Ruth? On account of this being in her job description. She should at least be able to get Becky in touch with the school counselor, and she’ll have had some training here.
But all of that admittedly kind of hinges on Dina recognizing that this isn’t just Becky being really really sad. And sometimes it feels like Hank is kind of the only cast member who knows how Becky’s mother died. And Becky puts on a pretty good mask most of the time. Has she discussed any of this with Dina? Does Dina know it’s a potential concern?
(If she DOES know, I would put money on her having researched how to handle suicidality in at least the broad strokes, but if she doesn’t know, which seems more likely given how she’s reacting here……. bleh.)
@ your first paragraph: yeah I noticed some people…kind of treat Dina as an Ideal instead of a person? And that Ideal is ‘perfect autistic girlfriend.’ It’s…hmm.
Yeahhh. I don’t want to accuse anyone of anything. But the comment section (extremely general) has often kind of treated Dina like an accessory for Becky. Like an emotional support doll or something. It bums me out.
I kind of think Dina’s in-universe problem of ‘being too stoic and quiet makes people really downplay her feelings’ is also a problem with some parts of the commetariat
The problem is, people don’t have enough reading comprehension skills to realize that characters can literally be unreliable narrators even of their own selves. This has been true, in just the current story so far, for Joyce, Walky, Dorothy, Joe, Becky, off the top of my head, and I know there’s more I could say, but shit, those are the most relevant characters for this conversation, and I think I’m justifiably right about all of them.
Dina is sort of a weird permutation of this concept: she’s accurately described within the text, that her lack of affect constantly causes everybody around her to misinterpret and minimize her mental and emotional states, but also, she literally looks and communicates as if she’s calm at all times, because that’s what an affect is; but, 99% of the time Dina’s on screen, a lot of the readers continue to take her affect at face value, which is a completely normal human problem, which many actual autistic people have to learn to constantly deal with, and account for.
Dina is a reliable narrator of the fact that her body and her presentation are both unreliable narrators, when it comes to her mental state. But, a lot of the readership, naturally does not account for this, because they probably don’t know anybody close to them who actually deals with this problem in real life.
Or, they just justifiably do not recall the one specific strip where Dina clearly lays out the literal answer necessary to comprehend the problem, because this is a strip that’s been running for, like, 15 years?
I also think that for those not taking her affect at face value, there can still be a lot of varying interpretation of what her feelings are. Like, I’ve gotten people who think I’m numb or not really feeling much when that’s not true at all, but I’ve also gotten people who have thought (sometimes insisted) that I was angry when I was confused, bored when I was curious, happy when I was anxious. When you don’t emote in a “standard” way, people often misread you, and here, it’s not like the readers can ask Dina, and aside from that one chapter, we don’t get a lot of internal monologue. Plus, sometimes you are just calm or chill about something! So there’s a lot of different takes people might have on Dina’s feelings at any given time.
Yeah, I think it’s just an inherent difficulty that comes with Dina being Dina, and the medium being “comic strip.” The way I look at a strip like this one, I just conclude “I don’t have any insight into what Dina’s actually feeling here, and I’m gonna just wait for more evidence.” But that’s not how everybody is gonna read it, and I don’t wanna necessarily imply that that’s not okay.
And apparently, “perfect autistic girlfriend” is only autistic when that’s cute. If she displays autistic characteristics in any other context (say, being honest when they think coddling is required), she’s a heartless monster.
…yeah, I’ll co-sign that, too.
Just like depressed people are gonna sometimes display symptoms of depression, and ADHD people are gonna sometimes display symptoms of ADHD. Like being forgetful, or having trouble listening, both of which can sting when they happen in the wrong moment, but which it isn’t fair to treat like something the ADHDer is doing on purpose or because they don’t care.
And in exactly the same way: sometimes these things we do DO hurt other people, and people are still within their rights to feel hurt, and sometimes we should still apologize…
…yeah, all of that also applies to “Dina is maybe being kinda flat-affect here and maybe taking Becky at her word at the wrong moment”.
Becky feeling very hurt by that is still valid, but it doesn’t make Dina a monster either.
Nuance? In MY comment section…? I wish it were more likely than you think, heh.
Yeah, it doesn’t make her a monster, but it also doesn’t mean that Dina’s clearly doing the right thing as many other commenters seem to think.
It’s that lack of nuance. In any conflict someone must be blameless and the other a monster.
I agree.
The good ™: Dina setting a boundary instead of sublimating her needs completely for Becky.
The bad ™: definitely the worst possible moment to do that, and phrased in a way that twists the metaphorical knife.
Neither of them is a monster. They are, however, both hurting each other right now, and Becky’s in such a bad headspace that her being further hurt, especially in this specific way, is more dangerous.
Like, it’s all true at once. Just as we are all individuals and, ultimately, we are the only one who will be with us every single step of the journey, and everyone has the right to end a romantic relationship at any moment for any reason, but also: we’re social animals, and none of us are ever completely independent, and the fundamental nature of humanity appears to be compassion and mutual aid; survival of the fittest isn’t one size fits all, and our abilit to work together and take care of each other is absolutely part of what makes us “fit” as a species.
No one person “owes” anything specific to anyone else except what has been promised, but. There’s also a basic social contract involved even in friendships, and we know Becky and Dina considered themselves pre-engaged…
idk, I just keep wanting to say: not “owing” anything to anybody isn’t the same thing as it being completely fine to never help each other, or automatically awful to expect help from someone else.
Li, for how much you worry about being a force of negativity in this comments section, I think you might be the singular person who, if the rest of the commenters were more like you, this comments section would be a harmonious and enjoyable place nearly always.
It really is that some people down here are incapable of parsing life through a lens of nuances, as opposed to extreme, rigid, selfish judgements.
I will comment to say that my issue I’ve commented on in this comment section isn’t with Dina. Dina is allowed to walk away and deal with her own emotions. Also, she’s fictional. My issue has been with the very real people here who seem to think that the second someone has a crisis, it’s objectively correct to throw your hands up, say “not MY job”, and sever all emotional ties which is… one of the worst things a person can do in my opinion.
I don’t know how much you can judge how people respond to a work of fiction with how they’d act in real life. I do think acting the way you describe is a problem (and I spent years volunteering on crisis lines, so like… I have a lot of thoughts around supporting those in crisis). But there are just so many particular factors that influence people that I can’t say that’s how even those who feel Dina would be “objectively correct” to dump Becky this exact second would actually respond.
Though I do acknowledge seeing a lot of the “don’t owe them anything” sentiment growing on the internet, and I’m sure that does impact people in real life.
The “don’t owe them anything” sentiment definitely makes me feel like a lot of people have just forgotten how to be kind. Probably not helped by the nature of the internet, I can’t see your face or hear your tone to read how my words are coming off, for example, but feeling that one “doesn’t owe someone anything” is one of those things that feels like it’s being twisted. Cause like, I understand the meaning of it but as a society I think people do owe it to each other to not be assholes. I don’t “owe” a stranger doing a courtesy, but I’d still do something like holding a door open, grabbing something someone can’t reach, or helping give them directions because it isn’t about whether they do it back or if I get something for it, it’s about not being a dick.
Replying to myself to emphasize:
I am definitely not in the “no one owes anybody anything, all forms of support are automatically people demanding unpaid emotional labor of me, which is automatically abusive and toxic” camp, and I am terribly sorry if anything I said came across as “Dina is 100% in the right here”.
No. Boundaries are important in part because they help us take care of each other. Gotta put on your own oxygen mask first, yeah, but then you CAN help other people. It will ultimately be better for this relationship if Dina is able to also prioritize her own emotional needs sometimes.
But also, yeah, Becky is in a very dark place right now, and if this is Dina leaving the room, then I really really hope she’s going to get Ruth. And the only reason I worry she might NOT be going to get (very nearby) help is if she doesn’t recognize this as potentially suicidal depression, which she might not, because Becky doesn’t like to be honest when it comes to ugly feelings, and Dina — like many of us! — needs people to be honest about their feelings in order to know what those feelings are.
man this is a DOWNER. Anyone who reads ahead on Patreon know if we get some levity?
You can always check the Patreon without being subscribed to at least see a panel preview! I just did, but most people don’t want to be spoiled, so I won’t say either way.
Thank you.
also so much for my theory that Dina would see the logic of Becky’s current emotional predicament, instead she just added to it and now we have Walky, Joe, and Becky emotionally destroyed at once with no end in sight.
Joe seems clearly not a mess
He’s the only real adult lol
There’s nothing about Walky and Becky’s reactions that make them “not real adults”.
Drowning your sorrows in McNuggets is always the adult action.
Hot take, Walky’s coping strategy thus far is definitely going the best, and is the least unhealthy; yeah, he’s definitely not “okay;” that’s what coping means! The only part of his life Walky is gonna blow up, is the dorm toilet.
I agree with this hot take. Walky’s eating a crap ton of nuggets, talking it out with Billie, and taking time to himself. I still wish we saw angry Walky, but I’d argue he’s handling it the best out of the three actually lol
And sometimes you just can’t beat eating a bit of garbage when you’re feeling bad. Gimme something covered in cheese when I’m down and out and I’m gonna feel better afterwards.
Can’t sleep? Fine, I’m eating ice cream. Will that help me sleep? Hell no! But I’ll be awake, with ice cream!
How much patience is Dina supposed to have with Becky? She’s been a rock for Becky this entire time as Becky held insecurities any time Dina didn’t seemingly validate Becky’s sexuality. Dina says she could be ace, Becky assumes she’s not good enough. Dina says gender identity isn’t that big a deal for her, Becky assumes Dina might be a trans man and that they’ll have to breakup because she’ll only date women. Dina has worked with Becky through all this and more. I don’t blame Dina for not continuing to be the perfect understanding girlfriend when Becky still expects her to leave, after she basically admitted Dina was a rebound all in one sentence. Dina is not a robot. Becky might not even realize how badly she likely just hurt Dina here.
Becky and Dina have known each other for about as long as Joe and Joyce, but one is “a long, long time” and the other is “only 12 days”?
That’s not fair at all.
Dina and Becky have known each other for notably LESS time than Joyce and Joe.
Huh? Joe and Joyce have been /dating/ for 12 days. Becky and Dina have been dating for, idk, around a year? I’m actually never sure about DoA timelines specific numbers. Which obviously isn’t actually that long all things considered, but probably feels that way to a 19 y/o when talking about her first relationship!
I think Dina and Becky probably started dating in September sometime, and it is currently January in the comic strip, so Dina and Becky have been dating for about 4 months.
As for the “long long time” vs “12 days”, although Joe and Joyce were secret text support buddies that was still only the occasional text. It’s only recently that Joe and Joyce have been hanging out regularly whereas Dina and Becky have been pretty close and hanging out pretty much from the jump.
wait that’s crazy. for some reason I thought there had been 2 time skips (???) and surely those would’ve passed more time overall – no idea where I got that from though. I should continue to not think about DoA timelines and in future also not comment on them, lol. (Though I think the argument still stands – sometimes time is about how you perceive it!)
I also agree with the rest of your comment – I think they’ve been closer for longer. Joe himself does say “I had /months/” but I think that’s more beating himself up than a realistic assessment (I’ve been there).
There was a time skip after Ryan got stabbed up, though I think that time skip was… a few days? I remember the comic jumped from like a Tuesday to a Friday. And then there was the biggest timeskip which was from ‘end of September/almost October whenever the hell day the end of the storyline was to January’ to ring in the start of the spring semester.
Which is to say, you’re actually right about there being 2 timeskips! It’s crazy to think after 15 years these guys (except Sarah and Ruth) and still freshmen. And I agree with the rest of your comment as well!
I mean… two different people were talking there? Dina might have a different opinion about what counts as a “long, long time” than Joe does, that sounds pretty normal and reasonable to me.
Especially because Joe was trying to minimize to prove he didn’t have to feel as upset as he does, and Dina was trying to explain how she thought they’d moved past something months ago.
It’s only upsetting dialogue if you think Joe saying that was Willis speaking through him to tell you that you’re not allowed to be sad about that breakup, and that this is Willis doing the same to tell you you have to be sad about this breakup.
I don’t subscribe to either read
(and in fact I think “we the audience aren’t supposed to be sad for Joe because it was ‘only’ 12 days” is a genuinely startling way to read the strip in question! Joe is so clearly not even being honest with himself when he tries to tell himself it wasn’t a significant relationship! Why would Willis want us to all universely agtre with something the character himself doesn’t even buy?)
but for folks who do, I understand being distressed / irritated by the seeming discrepancy.
Hm… This is going to be interesting to see. The reason I kept hoping Dina would show up is that she’d be able to cut through Becky’s emotional BS and drive to the truth – but I’m not sure that this opening move is the right way to get there. It’s true, sure – but it’s going to hit Becky hard when she’s already vulnerable.
Of course, the comic cutting off right after she said that could mean that she is going to follow that up with the hard truths that Becky DOES need to hear right now – getting Becky to recognize that when SHE’S the problem, SHE needs to work on finding the solution, because no one can fix her for her. That she can’t just go through life masking her issues and trying to make everyone else happy, and that she needs to take the time to work through the trauma that she’s lived through and actually LET GO of the pain rather than just burying it deep and continuing to let it fester the way she has been.
Of course, this is me saying that with decades more experience learning how to understand myself and others that Dina doesn’t have yet – and I honestly cannot say that I would have handled this situation any better than Dina is when I was her age. And that’s really what I love about her character – as someone who is very much a mix of Charlie and Dina, I strongly identify with her and how she is portrayed in this series.
I am not a therapist, but I’m not at all sure that Becky need to hear hard truths right now. She needs to hear them and work on them, but I’m not at all sure that right in the middle of a depressive crisis is the best time for hard truths.
Of course, once she’s out of it, the mask goes back on and there’s no need for the hard truths, so maybe it’s the only time, but I’d still like to see her pull back from the edge a bit first.
I’m like 80% sure Becky’s fighting a suicidal crisis right now. I wouldn’t be surprised if what she’s looking at on her phone are either the helpline or guides (though tbh it is probably just the online pic of the kiss). Dina’s seen Becky enough to know the spiral has been ongoing before this and that Becky is a risk of a crisis. Mind you, it isn’t Dina’s fault for misinterpreting Becky here and it isn’t her fault what happens, but telling Becky “you are the problem” is NOT saying “you need to work on yourself,” it’s saying “you’re fundamentally unlovable. Your mom couldn’t do it. Your dad couldn’t do it. Your best friend couldn’t do it. God couldn’t do it. And I can’t do it either.”
This would be a scary af situation irl. Becky doesn’t have a cat or someone to interrupt an attempt or a spiral, she’s about to be left completely alone. I don’t even know if there’s anybody that could text and check up on her. Of course, Dina has no way of knowing that and there are limits to how much someone is socially obligated to do even if she did.
[And that might not be how Becky’s responding here tbh, I and a bunch of other commenters might be misreading it and she could just be referring to the relationship and Joyce feelings alone, but I still maintain the above is important to keep in mind in case you do deal with someone having that sort of spiral irl. I have… been in that space way more than I’d like.]
Oh, I completely agree with that. It’s a terrible thing to say in this situation… but it can be salvaged if Dina continues on to turn it from something negative into something to help motivate Becky to improve herself and get better. Ending the comic where Willis did leaves it ambiguous, and it’s really easy to see the worst coming (because, hey, the comic hasn’t had much in the way of ACTUAL drama in it for a while – not that I’m complaining about that!) – but I’m hoping that we’ll have a deep and interesting conversation where darker outcomes are discussed and teased… but don’t end up actually happening. Given how we’ve seen some of these events go, the tension will still be there to keep us reading – but I’d really rather not see one of my favorite characters in the series ending up with a terrible fate.
Alas. A big question being “Is Dina intending to come back soon or not?”. From one perspective, the first choice is on the side of healing a rift and the other is on the side of widening it. From another perspective, the first choice is on the side of worsening a precedent while the other is on the side of addressing it. On the one hand, there’s an ideal of being there for someone close to you especially when they’re at their worst. On the other hand, there’s an ideal of not lashing out at those close to you even when you’re at your worst. Not trusting myself to hope for any specific outcome, only witnessing and hoping to see what follows (soon) rather than a switch to different characters. (Fingers crossed.)
–On the bright side, even if the Becky-Dina and Joyce-Joe relationships both collapse instead of evolving in interesting directions, that would mean I get to ship Dina-Joe which would be awesome in several ways.
Really? Dina just vanishes? I was expecting some sort of “Reason you suck” speech since Dina has done EVERYTHING to be a supportive girlfriend to Becky, including supporting her church-going ways while being an atheist, only to realize that Becky STILL holds a torch for Joyce and seems to be more devastated at losing her to Dorothy than losing Dina entirely. Granted, as being someone who actually developed a crush on my best friend, I will say it takes a HELL of a lot longer than three months to get over them, but I wasn’t romantically involved with anyone when my best friend was attending college (she was a year older than me and graduated early. I got my own girlfriend AFTER she left.) I know Dina finds it hard to empathize with Becky right niw but I would’ve thought she would try to find a way to let her know that she’s still here and waiting to be fully in Becky’s heart if she’d just let go of Joyce, rather than just admitting she could never be Joyce and therefore should just leave Becky. I know this isn’t as bad as, say, seeing your verbally abusive father dying without accepting you, but going for a clean break while your partner is at her lowest emotional point is… ill advised. Understandable (At least DoA Dina knows when to stand up for herself) but somehow… ill advised.
Am I wrong? Is clean-breaking from Becky the right thing to do?
I don’t think it’s the right thing to do, no. I also don’t see this as Dina doing a clean break though I’m also not sure entirely what it is she’s doing other than just walking away for now. I don’t… think it’s an actual break up? But maybe I’m wrong.
Clean-breaking from Becky is absolutely the right thing to do for Dina to do for Dina. The right thing for Dina to do for Becky is to clean-break and dump about five thousand therapist business cards on top of her.
Why does it have to be this zero-sum game? Why does Dina HAVE to break up with Becky in order for Becky to get the help she needs? Why can’t they work through their problems like an actual couple WHILE Becky gets the help she needs? Is your position that people dealing with complex and severe mental health issues are not deserving of love or romance until they “fix” themselves?
Because Becky’s issue is that she has defined her entire identity as “lesbian” instead of as “Becky”, and the only way she’s going to get through this decently is if she learns to be “Becky, who happens to be a lesbian” instead of “a lesbian who is named Becky”.
You really think THAT’S the issue, and not her fear of abandonment and low self-esteem? Geez.
How the fuck are you getting THAT as the issue here???
Because that IS the issue. If Becky thought of herself as “Becky, the person” and not as “lesbian, who is called Becky” then Joyce getting together with another woman would not trigger any of this, because then her relationship with Joyce would have been defined as ‘between Becky and Joyce’ and not ‘between a lesbian and the person she wants to date but can’t because they’re not into women’, and Joyce getting together with Dorothy does nothing to change the former.
What you’re saying is completely nonsensical and even if it wasn’t this is about so much more than just Joyce getting together with Becky. I find it genuinely astounding that people still are not picking up on that.
No, dear. Becky’s issues are:
– Her mother killed herself
– Her religion forced her to live a lie her whole life
– Her first foray with women made her homeless, schoolless and got her…
– Stalked by her father, who turned up to school with a fucking gun
– She was kidnapped by her dad as were several of her friends
– She watched her dad die of a severe head injury, and the implication was not that it was a quick or painless death
And after bottling ALLLL that up for far too long, the last person from her former life has just “replaced” her with a new best friend and a new girlfriend in one. It’s not reasonable for her to own Joyce or expect to, but it IS reasonable that someone who has been through this much might, with a final straw, fucking snap.
Her identifying so strongly with being a lesbian is in part a symptom of her trauma, not the fucking source of it. And it’s also literally fine for her to do, maybe one of the least harmful coping mechanisms she has (and there are harmful parts of it she should work on, but again, let’s consider scale here damn).
You said what I was going to say better. I will really only add on that I understand how someone could go from “Becky is afraid of the idea that sexuality can change” to “Becky’s identity is too wrapped up in ‘being a lesbian'”, but as you say, that’s a symptom. And really the root cause is probably (and horrifyingly) closer to a thought process that goes like:
1) If I could have not a lesbian, none of that stuff would have happened to me or my mom or my dad or my friends.
2) Therefore I could have prevented all the bad stuff from 1) if I was not a lesbian.
3) I don’t want to not be a lesbian.
4) Not taking action to prevent all the bad stuff from 1) would make me a bad person.
5) I am not a bad person.
6) Therefore, it is not possible to change sexuality, ever.
7) Other people appearing to change their sexuality means that I might not be 100% fixed in my sexuality.
8) This contradicts 6, which contradicts 5, which means I might have caused my mom to die and my friends to get attacked by my dad by being stubborn rather than just because I am who I am.
9) JOYCE is my best friend, and I want what’s best for her.
10) Therefore JOYCE’S sexuality is not 100% fixed if Joyce changes.
11) Therefore 9 is true
12) Therefore depression/PTSD/trauma response.
11) should read “therefore 8 is true”.
I think we’ve also got additional salt in the wound factors, like:
a.) Becky threw herself on Hank like she thought he was a live grenade. She told Joyce to run. In that moment, she probably felt like she was getting to be Joyce’s Amazi-Girl: the superhero sent by God to save her best friend.
Only then it turned out Joyce didn’t want saving, as she almost immediately threw herself on Hank in the same way to protect Jocelyne — and then it turned out that she didn’t need saving either, because despite ostensibly believing a lot of the same things, Hank isn’t Ross.
When you’re depressed, it’s easy to alchemize something like that into “no one needs me”, and to alchemize something like THAT into “therefore, I am worthless”.
b.) As much as Becky has put a positive spin on what happened to her (“God sent a superhero to save me from my dad”), I’m sure it’s… painful to see someone else who, again, comes from such a similar background, getting to have a much gentler coming out. Not having to choose between her sexuality and her father.
(It doesn’t help, either, that I think Becky fully missed Carol’s return. Maybe Joyce told her about it, maybe Joyce didn’t — she might still be feeling, as she once expressed, that she doesn’t “get” to complain about her parents being crappy to Becky, which is well-intentioned but could easily leave Becky with the impression that actually, Joyce hasn’t had to lose ANY family members.)
c.) The part Becky doesn’t yet know, but would probably assume anyway: that Joyce managed to work through her lingering feelings that being sexual = being sinful before having sex with her girlfriend for the first* time, and therefore, unlike Becky, there wasn’t any shame-induced sobbing.
……. basically, I think it would be kind of understandable for Becky to feel like Joyce isn’t just having a gentler coming-out experience, but actually just… being better in every way than Becky. A better daughter, a better girlfriend, and somehow more beloved by God, despite having fully turned her back on the guy.
* yeah yeah, something something laundromat. That Joyce mentally categorized this as their second time rather than their first probably genuinely helped a lot of her anxiety, too.
Joyce did tell Becky about Carol, but neither of them treated it as a big deal.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2023/comic/book-13/04-but-dont-give-yourself-away/futurewives/
Yeah, I didn’t remember that, but it’s exactly the kind of thing I mean.
Joyce told Becky that her mom had stopped by to let her know her parents were splitting up, but not that it was in any way a painful visit full of her mom spouting casual bigotry, you know? She tried to minimize it, which in turn makes it… sound minimal.
this is really good at compiling the way that we think when we are in that mental state. people with depression are actually proven to be more logical than people who do not currently have it, and this is precisely how you use logic to hurt yourself when you’re feeling that way. it’s a very scary place to be, because you really feel as if your ruminations are the most correct you’ve ever been about anything, and you’re blind to the fact that they only hyper-fixate on the wrong things, in the worst possible way.
I might be speaking a little bit from experience as to how some college depression spirals go, and I didn’t even have any dead-parents-level tragedies behind mine.
Which is part of the point — depression will, for example, take away your executive function and motivation and then use the fact that your friends still are going to class and doing things as a reason why you specifically suck the most for getting a 2.9 one semester.
The number of people who expect Dina to stay in a relationship forever with a girl who has flat-out agreed that she’s just a placeholder ‘until Joyce’ because said girl is sad that Joyce is dating a different girl is staggering.
Dina is not obligated to stay in a relationship where she’s just being used, whether or not the girl using her is crying.
(That said, I suspect Dina doesn’t mean this as a breakup, because if she did she’d have actually said so. Becky has said that she doesn’t want to talk to Dina, said she herself is the problem here, Dina agrees and dips. If it was anyone else, sure, but Dina doesn’t really do unspoken implication.)
Becky has never said that. Up until today, she figured there would NEVER be a ‘until Joyce’. She talked about marrying Dina. Granted, partially because of her religious shame around having sex, but she seemed pretty intent on it even after that. How is that in any way a placeholder relationship?
Because Joyce, a girl who has never been a romantic option, kissing another girl is THE END OF THE WORLD despite Dina being genuinely a good-standard girlfriend. They both are very clear *in this strip*: Dina is a consolation prize. Dina would be dumped INSTANTLY if Joyce was interested, because Joyce is FIRST PRIZE.
DINA should be first prize. And now she knows for sure that she’s the participation medal. Why is that a situation in which she’s obligated to stay?
It’s the end of the world for a lot of reasons for Becky that are more than just Joyce being a first prize. This is way more complicated than that, and I truly don’t think Dina is the consolation prize. Dina isn’t obligated to stay, but she IS the first prize. Becky loves her. She still has some unresolved shit with Joyce but I honestly don’t think she loves her, not after that fight they had a couple weeks ago.
Plus, like…I actually don’t even think it’s unfair to say, Becky has never actually loved Joyce in a romantic way, the way she loves Dina. Becky is hung up on the trauma of being in a situation where Joyce, ultimately, would have been her only actual option for a partner, and their friendship was as obligatorily co-dependent as any of Joyce’s close relationships.
When you get right down to it, Becky doesn’t so much romantically love Joyce, as she is afraid of losing her. Becky loves her incredibly deeply; I just don’t think it’s romantic. Becky is as down bad for Joyce as Dorothy and Joe are, but I really think that the source of her feelings comes more from years and years of fearing the loss of Joyce, possibly even before her family members started dropping like flies around her.
Becky hasn’t considered that her love of Joyce, may just be a strong platonic feeling, because much like Joyce, she was given the worst possible fundie story-book framework of what love is supposed to feel like, and what her purpose is as a woman (be completely obsessively devoted to one person, and give them the sum total of your whole life and self).
I suspect that Becky’s fear of losing Joyce may actually be the initial catalyst for seeing a relationship with Joyce, as the only happy end-game for her life; it was, logically, the only way she could guarantee she would never, ever be meaningfully separated from Joyce, who it seems was basically her only real friend or confidant, much like how Becky was all Joyce had.
And, Becky could cope with losing Joyce to some man; after all, that’s God’s will and what not, and she wouldn’t want her friend to never find love! But, losing Joyce to another woman? Well, in fundie mindset, Becky could accept that “spouse” and “bestie” were two fundamentally different categories, and because she’s a woman, Becky could still win at the latter category, because if you’re going off fundie logic, a woman’s love for her husband is this mythologized category, which Becky could accept that she never had a chance at, because she never wanted to be Joyce’s husband.
But, if Joyce has a gal pal, well…that’s a paradigm where Dorothy doesn’t just knock Becky off the leaderboard in the category she wasn’t trying to compete in. Male suitors can only take Joyce’s married life away from Becky, and she successfully accepted she wasn’t getting that, anyway; but, she never saw men as capable of attacking her spot on the “bestie” leaderboard. Dorothy is a girl. Dorothy can usurp Becky in both categories, and thus, Joyce loving Dorothy naturally implies that Becky loses all of her Joyce-time, because Dorothy is a woman, and thus capable of being a spouse and meeting all of Joyce’s friendship needs, as well.
So to clarify, I’m not saying Becky’s romantic feelings from Joyce are fake; what I’m saying is, Becky has incorrect assumptions about how relationships work that are rooted in her upbringing, and those incorrect assumptions are what created this obsession around losing Joyce forever, and then manifested that fear into an obsession with the idea that eventually marrying Joyce, would be the only way to fully guarantee that Becky wouldn’t lose access to her, and wouldn’t lose yet another family-grade relationship from her life.
When you contrast Young Joyce with Current Dina, I think it actually may be kind of obvious, that Joyce could never have been compatible with what Young Becky wanted from her, for reasons that had nothing to do with Joyce’s sexuality. The things Becky and Joyce need from their partners are not compatible.
I do agree with a lot of this and that’s also why reducing Becky’s reaction to “just being sad Joyce doesn’t love her” is a really simple viewpoint. The reason Becky was upset about Joyce being an atheist behind her back is because Joyce is basically the last tie she has to her childhood, to something familiar.
Her father is dead. Her mother is dead. The community she was raised in hates her and bailed her father out, allowing him to kidnap her friends. She does have Hank to rely on as well, at least, but Joyce is the childhood friend who was her closest and probably only companion for a long, long time. Like you said, she could bow out of ‘allotted besty time’ for Joyce to date a guy, she’s never been against Joyce being interested in a man. But Dorothy is her rival for best friend and now romantic interest. She’s already ‘lost’ their shared connection to Christianity. She’s losing her best friend in little pieces over time and that’s devastating.
Um.
Halfway down the page I learn 3/4 of the people here believe this is a breakup.
Why?
That would be completely out of character for Dina! She’s going to explain what Becky has been doing wrong, and then they can fix it together! Logic!
Plus, she’s simply too autistic to just somehow automatically never criticize her girlfriend. She’s also autistic enough to not mean what she doesn’t say. She didn’t say “yes, it is, and therefore“.
Because Dina isn’t in the last panel, implying she’s left.
It’s possible that’s a fake-out and she’s actually climbed up on the bed with Becky, but it’s clearly set up to suggest she left.
Right. She hasn’t just walked out the door, or sat down. She Dina-teleported away. She won’t be found until she wants to be.
There’s a strip in a comic called “Bohemian Nights” where main character Emrys gets into a nasty verbal fight with his then-girlfriend Stephanie, who had been acting erratic for weeks. She kicks him out of her apartment, and Emrys’s last words to her are “how could someone so beautiful be so ugly on the inside.” Stephanie has no comeback so she quietly closes the door, and the last panel is just the door, confirming that they’ve broken up. In my experience, whenever the last panel is just a background after an intense emotional arguement. that means that they’ve broken up. And Dina, being the logical girl she is, probably knows that no pep talk is going to change Becky’s mind that she’s anything but a consolation prize and Dina deserves so much better. (Only problem is, there really is no one in the named cast that are worthy of her. They’re either all horny idiots, or Danny… and Danny’s taken.)
Or, she just cannot take this right now, and left to sort herself out. That’s how stuff might work in real life. Might work (drama-wise) in a comic strip as well; when she returns, there will be Discussion.
Might be, but if she did walk out after this conversation, Becky will definitely assume she’s been dumped.
Becky’s already assumed she’s been dumped. Said so last strip.
Well, there was an “if” on that, but if Dina leaves now that seems like the answer.
Oooohhhhh reading QC alongside DoA makes today’s comic extra painful. ;_;
Maybe it’s just because I’m someone who’s had CPTSD since I was 7 years old, but I’m amazed at the responses that seem to be “if your girlfriend is having a mental health crisis, it’s the objectively correct thing to do to break up with her”. I’ve had a few breakdowns and had friends who were there for me through it, and in turn I’ve been there to help my friends when they’ve had struggles. I couldn’t stomach leaving Becky, or anyone, really, alone in such a state.
yea i feel the same, im also autistic the same as dina. (also cptsd)
*internet hug of support*
aww! ty! im pretty good now, ive got like 5 girlfriends who are all very nice and supportive
Hell yeah, amazing supportive polycule!
It’s the context of the breakdown. If Dina weren’t Becky’s girlfriend this would be an entirely different situation.
“if your girlfriend is having a mental health crisis, it’s the objectively correct thing to do to break up with her” Sometimes that is correct. Sometimes staying is the worse outcome. And sometimes it’s not. Sometimes there isn’t a correct option.
I don’t think the context does anything to make a break up appropriate here. I can see scenarios where that’d be the case (for example, if a partner in crises is engaging in extreme property damage that puts themself and their partner at risk, physical abuse, emotional and mental abuse) but Dina knew Becky still had her Joyce hang ups. Just a couple days ago, Dina dressed up in a masculine style and Becky couldn’t resist her. Becky clearly has strong feelings for her. So why is this breakdown the clincher where a break up is appropriate? Can’t even give the girl a couple days to come to grips with the situation, just “yep break up, this is the right thing to do”. It’s just a very unforgiving thing to do in my opinion. It would make me wonder if the person doing the breaking up truly loved the other person in the first place.
We don’t know that they are going to break up. Dina agreed with Becky that she is the problem and the last panel is blank. Perhaps she left the room. Perhaps she climbed up on the bunk bed.
Becky is attracted to Dina but has also unwittingly made her feel like a consolation prize. Her mere act of having a break down over someone else being in a relationship would feel like a betrayal to many people. Because in a healthy monogamous relationship you shouldn’t feel that way, you shouldn’t be in love with someone else like that, you shouldn’t be destroyed by other people’s love.
Someone doesn’t need to hurt you for a break up to be appropriate.
The only context you need to end a relationship is that you no longer want to be in a relationship.
I do agree that I don’t think this is a break up. But I think it would be an awful scenario in which to break up. I can’t really say anything about that last bit because you are objectively correct. I guess I’m just more patient, man. If my partner had a breakdown like this I’d be there for them 110%. Even if it’s over them having unresolved feelings for someone else. If it became a repeated pattern of Joyce having relationship stuff that sends Becky into a spiral that’d be one thing but this is literally the first time this has happened and being so cut and dry about it just feels unforgiving.
It’s always been a thing kind of hanging over the relationship, so I can see why even a single crisis about this would just feel like confirmation of everything Dina had feared, but I’d really hope that they could at least talk through it a bit, especially since I think this crisis is far from just about wanting Joyce instead of Dina.
I agree with that last bit wholeheartedly. Becky, a lesbian who came out and experienced a LOT of strife for it (including attempts to convert her), is now face to face with the fact that Joyce, who previously thought she was 100% straight, is indeed not straight. And it isn’t JUST “omg Joyce didn’t love me”(although I’m sure that still is there) but it is ALSO “what if I wasn’t a lesbian after all? What if I could like dudes too? What if I did just let me dad send me to that camp, and I just tolerated getting married to a man one day, my dad wouldn’t have died and Mike wouldn’t have died and NOBODY would have been kidnapped because that was all my fault because I’m a lesbian”.
And it’s also “what’s wrong with me that my dad couldn’t accept me? Hank accepted Joyce. It’s me. The problem is me. Dina’s going to leave me, because the problem is me. My mom left me.”
Point of order, I think Becky is actually operating under the assumption that Joyce might be a lesbian. The specific things Joyce has said in front of her kind of support that read: she’s calling herself gay (umbrella term usage, I presume, but suggestive), and she’s been framing this whole thing both in her own mind and out loud to various people as:
“I was always in love with Dorothy and only just recently realized it”
Which. You know, is easy to read as a lesbian emerging from heteronormativity, rather than a bi woman who’s just being very infatuated with her new girlfriend.
Personally, Li, I think Joyce has massively overstated things. It’s kind of natural coming from someone without much relationship experience, but I doubt Joyce has been “in love” with Dorothy for all that long. She’s had a crush for sure, but it’s only very recently that she’s felt a desire to actively seek a relationship. Maybe it’s their time in the laundry room, maybe it’s that she’s sensed Dorothy’s feelings about her are changing, but I think Joyce saying she’s been in love all along is just retroactive rose-tinted glasses. And this has probably only made things sting all the more for Becky, who thinks that her friend was comforting her and denying being gay while having sublimated this passionate desire for Dorothy. In my opinion, Joyce is extremely new to having intimate lesbian feelings — she’s crushed on Dorothy, but also Sal and probably other women (Billie?), and it has been more of an abstract fantasy than a sexuality. Of course, Becky also struggles with the idea that sexualities can change/develop suddenly like this, so it’s natural for her to feel like she was lied to, albeit unconsciously. (Of course, we can never really be sure about this, except from Willis confirming/denying the accuracy of Joyce’s statements. And Becky only has Joyce’s word to go on, so even if she had fully embraced the idea of a fluid sexual identity, she’d still probably feel like Joyce has been gay all along, even when swearing that she wasn’t. I wonder if Becky would be isolating herself to this point if Joyce hadn’t gushed so hard about her eternal feelings for Dorothy.)
(tldr: the “6 on a Kinsey scale” lesbianism aspect aside, the “WLW emerging from heteronormativity” part isn’t just easy to read, it’s directly implied by what Joyce has said, and imo it isn’t very accurate. Joyce’s thoughtless puppy-love gushing has really twisted the knife here.)
Yeah, basically.
There’s a reason why I said infatuated! I think Joyce has loved Dorothy for longer than she’s been IN love with her in any sense, and that she’s just… jumping in with both feet, the way she’s always tended to.
But also yeah, what she’s specifically said within Becky’s earshot has absolutely left the door wide open for “maybe Joyce isn’t bi, maybe she’s actually 100% a lesbian, just like me, except somehow doing all of it with fewer problems and more grace”.
Bleh. I do not subscribe to the idea that any identity is “less” queer, I dislike it when folks phrase things as “not JUST bi but fully gay” or any variant. I only meant to convey Becky’s mental emphasis.
(that moment when the TLDR is probably better communicated than the original rambling post, because my brain is ADHD as fuck. apologies for those who waded through that wall of text)
Oh yeah, I don’t mean “less queer” I just mean “less exclusively WLW”
I say “better communicated” but I am neurodivergent so I’m not always the best judge of that x.x
(I realize the Kinsey scale is a bit controversial but that was the simplest phrasing I could think of at the moment to distinguish “lesbian who likes women and possibly also men” from “lesbian who only likes women”. Maybe it’s implied, I get confused between that and “sapphic”)
Fffff I was actually saying that about MY OWN comment, I didn’t even see your Kinsey scale addition!
We use the tools we have.
Importantly, being a 6 isn’t “more queer” than being a 3 or a 2, either. The number is bigger but Kinsey didn’t mean it that way — or indeed any way at all, since the original scale was meant to talk about behavior, not identity. 🙂 You’re fine. I wasn’t blehing you.
I’m really shocked by the amount of people who seem to think A) this is a permanent breakup and B) this was the unambiguously correct thing for Dina to do.
Yeah I don’t think it is a break-up, but I do think that if Dina wants out of the relationship for any reason – a break-up is the unambiguously correct thing for her to do.
I hope she doesn’t, but I think it’s reasonable to protect herself from harm if she doesn’t feel equipped to or interested in continuing with Becky at this point.
Of course Dina doesn’t have to stick around in a relationship she doesn’t want to be in. That’s not what I take issue with. It’s the parting comment Dina made here – that is just not something you say to someone spiraling like Becky is, especially just saying that and then leaving without another word.
If Dina did say that and leave, which I’m not 100% sold on, it’s because she didn’t realize how badly Becky was spiraling.
This.
As I noted above, sometimes it seems like the only character who’s really clocked any of this as an issue for Becky is Hank. It’s not clear how much he told Joyce, either, when she was confused as to why “someone’s suicidal” would be such a personally painful topic for Becky back in the day.
Becky is so good at masking, and Dina tends to take people… well, literally. As someone who also has that problem sometimes, and might or might not also be on the spectrum, I would understand if Dina really does not know how bad the state Becky is in… is.
I can see from this morning’s comment section that when I made my own comment, assuming folks would take it as read that what Dina said in that second to last panel was the last thing Becky needed to hear, I should in fact have spent more time talking about that!
Because for me at least, it’s very much not a binary. I can think it’s good for Dina’s part that she didn’t immediately sublimate her own emotional needs to be the perfect girlfriend comfort object for Becky AND that the specific way she did that is awful for Becky’s mental health.
Also: boundaries are important, but part of why we need them is to be able to keep supporting one another, and I definitely don’t subscribe to the current wave of “actually, EVERY man is an island, friends who need my support are automatically toxic and should never ‘demand’ emotional labor from me” wave of thought.
No same. I hate the current vibe that seems to have turned from “It’s okay to have boundaries, and you don’t owe someone your health/sanity” to “It’s okay to abandon friends and loved ones and you don’t owe someone a reasonable amount of affection and support”.
Ahhh yeah that’s super fair. It was a weird parting shot at her gf. She’s upset too, and I understand people say shitty things in shitty situations when they’re upset, but it sucks.
Yeah for sure, and I think people are giving Dina way more leeway for saying hurtful things while she’s in a bad headspace than they are to Becky.
I genuinely wonder if that’s just because Becky spoke first. Becky said a hurtful thing and then Dina said a hurtful thing but it was in response to the first therefore it’s Becky’s fault Dina was hurtful AND Becky’s fault that Becky was hurtful.
Unless it’s Joyce’s fault somehow.
Not a belief structure I ascribe to, but I do wonder if it’s a bit of that happening.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a significant issue, just because of the one comic a day format? Because we get so invested into each moment of an argument, and there’s 24 hours of speculatating about that first Bad Thing that was said, and sometimes we talk ourselves into thinking it came from a Bad Place, and then a response that’s “returning the same energy” can wind up feeling like a cathartic retort for US? If that makes sense.
I don’t think it’s a breakup just yet, but I could absolutely see it going either way. People have joked about a cascade of breakups coming out of the Joyce/Dorothy kiss, but at the rate things are going? It doesn’t seem impossible. I can hope for these two to fix things and become a better, healthier couple, but I’m fully prepared for them to fall apart.
I find it pretty frustrating that Becky recognized Dina wasn’t the proper person to go to about this and stopped herself from actually getting into the situation, left Dina’s room while still clearly having a lot of feelings she was trying to deal with, and then Dina showed up in Becky’s room for this.
Well, with Dina being very clever often, people tend to forget she IS autistic. Also people do maybe-not-so-great things when they are hurt/anxious.
Exactly what I came down here to complain about. Becky blurted out ONE thing and then stopped herself talking any further. Then Dina ran down an entire train of logic by herself, got outside information to fill in the gaps, came in, and just made Becky feel worse and left, after Becky didn’t even try defending herself.
Frustrating!
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-16/01-not-so-smooth-criminals/beneathnotice/
I don’t think this is entirely fair to Dina?
The sequence of events was:
0. Amber is injured, Dina is worried about her.
1. Becky arrived at Dina’s door with a thousand yard stare and stated that God was fake.
2. Dina haltingly asked her what was wrong, and Becky avoided her eyes for a moment before saying “maybe” she shouldn’t talk about it. Dina tried guessing (that Becky was upset Amber had been hurt), and guessed wrong.
3. Becky decided that she’d been right and she shouldn’t talk about this. Presumably she then left Dina’s room. Dina turned to Amber, extremely worried, and asked what could possibly have happened to shake Becky’s faith that could be worse than everything with her parents. Amber told Dina that she saw Dorothy and Joyce kissing.
4. Finally, we see Dina in Becky’s room.
I think your framing underestimates how distressing Becky’s affect was the entire time. I don’t think Becky was really acting like someone who wanted to be left alone, or indeed someone it was safe to leave alone. And since we skipped over Dina actually knocking on her door and entering the room, we can’t be sure what Becky said in response to her appearance at Becky’s door.
(Though I would bet “nothing”. I would bet she didn’t get up to open the door, or even respond verbally to the knocking.)
Unfortunately, Dina is also dealing with all of her own hurt feelings now, and not dealing with them well.
I don’t think it underestimates that at all, and is in fact informed by that.
For Dina’s reaction, I do think she lacks some information about various factors that are going on for Becky right now– Becky’s not really in a place to lay them out, either. So Dina’s working with what she has– still in a way that I think is a mistake. But I also feel like people are reacting like finding something frustrating is at odds with finding it understandable, like it’s some kind of behavioral outlier or something, when… that’s just not true at all. People do understandable and frustrating things all the time.
I think it’s pretty understandable that Dina would go after her very upset girlfriend.
Sure, but again, for *this*… it makes sense that she’d go after Becky. It makes sense that she’s upset about Becky’s reaction. I don’t think going after someone who’s really upset in order to confront them was the best move. I even think it’s possible this wasn’t the conversation Dina set out to have, but her feelings impacted her in the moment. It’s still frustrating to see.
I don’t think people in emotional pain make great decisions 99% of the time.
Hm, I think that’s overstating it and oversimplifing here. Though for overstating, it’s not like I have exact statistics.
oh gosh frigging dangit
Holding out hope for a reveal that Dina actually just climbed up to the bunk with Becky…
You stare at the abyss and it just stares right back. And that’s when the hug comes — not from the front, but from the side. From the Dina you didn’t even know was there.
Dina’s not wrong. Becky is the problem, the problem is IN her, which means she’s the only one who can address/fix it. She said she doesn’t want Dina right now, she agreed Dina’s just a placeholder, so Dina dipped.
It now on Becky to figure out what’s ACTUALLY most important to her – if it’s really more important that Joyce is with a girl who isn’t her, she can stay where she is and Dina won’t interfere. If Dina is the first choice and not just a placeholder until Joyce, then Becky can go find her and they can work through stuff.
But it’s Becky’s decision to make, start to finish. And if she needs help figuring out, that help should probably not come from Dina.
Becky has said precisely none of those things. She didn’t say she didn’t want Dina right now. She didn’t say Dina was just a placeholder.
I can kind of see why Dina might think that’s what Becky’s thinking, but unless I’ve really missed something, Becky hasn’t said and I don’t think she’s even thinking it.
I see this as Becky having a crisis over her feelings of abandonment and of not being good enough for the people in her life. Her mother killed herself. Joyce couldn’t love her like she loved Joyce, that means she wasn’t good enough. Her father couldn’t accept her being queer like Joyce’s dad accepted her – that’s a problem with her. Dina will leave her, like everyone does, because Becky’s the problem.
mental health problems are things that are solved with like, a support network, community care, etc etc, it shouldn’t be something you have to do on your own and trying to “fix” yourself on your own is much harder than when one has support.
I think we all have a responsibility to support eachother, and like yes dont burn yourself out don’t hurt yourself trying to help other people but don’t go too far in the other direction too where everyone is expected to be an island of one and you aren’t responsible for anyone, because thats a very individualist way of thinking and not good for the human species.
so idk someone should get becky to someone she can talk to about this stuff.
Dina’s eye, staring out of her temple. Weird.
when someone is having a mental breakdown what i like to do is just like, wait, for them to get their nervous system calmed down a bit so we can actually talk
I also do my best to not take things people say while this is happening too personally, like, i get hurt by my friends who say stuff when going insane sometimes but we talk about that after it happens and if it keeps happening
this is also what helps me when i have a breakdown of some sort like becky is obviously having happen
now i don’t necessarily expect 19 year olds to act like this but like leaving someone having a breakdown by themselves isnt the platonic ideal of mental health support because “its not anyone elses responsibility” or whatever
Yeah and the parting comment just like is not a good thing to do to someone having a mental health crisis over exactly this
Especially since Dina means something completely different by it than Becky does. Dina’s talking about her being a rebound for Becky and her own issues with how that makes her feel, while Becky’s saying she’s the problem that makes everyone leave her.
I mean she is the problem that’s going to potentially make Dina leave her. So… that much she’s right about.
Becky, the person, is not the problem. Becky’s untreated mental illness is and her disordered responses to stressful stimuli are what’s driving a wedge between them, but those are problems that can be treated when they are identified. Becky, herself, is not the problem, and I really want us all to be extremely fucking careful when we discuss this shit because these are real behavioral and mental issues that real people struggle with, and the last thing those people need to be told is that they’re the problem, which is already what they’re telling themselves, and having that assumption confirmed can drive them to doing drastic things.
It’s not fair to Dina that Becky has made her feel like she’s second place in her heart, but that she has done so is a result of Becky no longer being able to compartmentalize her feelings with Joyce, which she never actually confronted and resolved, meaning that now that they’ve come roaring back, it’s been explosive. Dina needs reassurance from Becky that Becky does love her and wants to be with her as herself, not as a consolation prize, and Becky needs reassurance that the voices in her head telling her that every bad thing that’s happened to her is her fault for being insufficient as a person are full of shit. Both of them need support right now, and they need to talk things through, but Dina needs reassurance about how Becky feels about her and Becky needs to be talked down off a ledge. They are not in equivalent mental states right now.
I am of the strong belief that ownership of one’s actions is a key component of mental health. What you are talking about is a more modern form of therapeutic compartmentalization – separation over integration (X is happening to me vs I am engaging in X behavior), that I personally believe is more damaging in the long run, as it potentially reinforces disassociation from agency rather that reconciliation.
yea exactly!
Becky’s crisis is based on her perception that the world is crashing in on her.
Dina has always gone for simple truth and direct statements. Her track record on this probably makes her the one person that can tell Becky to take ownership of it and not have it seem like lashing out.
But I do agree as a general thing it is a rough strategy in RL. Better to start with a cup of tea and get them to stop doom scrolling.
If she follows through and actually talks to her about it, maybe.
As is, she’s doing nothing but reinforcing the spiral. “Joyce doesn’t love me and it’s not because she’s straight, it’s just because I’m me. The problem is me. Hank could accept Joyce. My dad couldn’t accept me. The problem is me. My mom killed herself. The problem is me. Dina’s going to leave me. The problem is me.”
“Yes. It is.” And Dina leaves her.
Now, Becky hasn’t explicitly said most of that to Dina (or at all) and I don’t think Dina’s picked up on most it. If Dina’s thinking that the issue is just Becky still crushing on Joyce, then her response makes sense.
On the other hand, has anyone considered Dina’s feelings? She’s not a therapist, she’s not trained in how to deal with someone’s nervous breakdown or spiral. Most people who aren’t trained or experienced with dealing with this kind of spiral aren’t going to be cool professionals under these circumstances, especially if they’ve always had doubts about the other person’s feelings anyway.
I mean, personally, if someone I know is in suicidal crisis it becomes my obligation to handle it. Whether that’s me sitting with them and holding them for a bit and ordering food to distract them or finding an authority figure that can handle the situation if I can’t, I believe it’s every human’s responsibility to do what they can to help someone if they have options available and the alternative is “this human dies.” Like, for Dina it would be a good time to get Ruth or a different RA if she can’t find her.
BUT, I don’t think Dina knows that might be what’s happening here.
When Joyce and Dorothy emerge, they’ll find every former couple now split up, and all the single people now paired off:
Becky and Dina split up
Sal and Danny split up
Lucy and Jacob split up
Leslie and Daisy dating
Sarah and Joe dating
And more! Utter chaos and catastrophe!
(except for the polycule of agatha, grace, and mandy…they’re solid)
Can Leslie date Daisy? Like ethically speaking? I’m not against a bit of age difference but I think Daisy is a student right? Wouldn’t that be against school ethics and be problematic sex pest behavior? Like what Jason was doing with Sal that one time but maybe slightly less abhorrent?
It’s ethically dicey but not disallowed as long as Daisy isn’t Leslie’s student as far as I’m aware
Daisy isn’t in Leslie’s class (and would derail it enough to get kicked out if she was), so I don’t see any ethical problems. Leslie isn’t responsible for any aspect of Daisy’s education and has no power dynamic with her.
Leslie is still a teacher and Daisy is still a student, so while there’s no direct conflict of interest or unequal power dynamic, it’d probably still get looked at askance.
Fair enough, I s’pose.
I think Willis has been deliberately vague about Leslie’s age. Like I think they’ve basically said Leslie is old enough that she wouldn’t have a weird age gap with Robin, but young enough that it wouldn’t be SUPER creepy to ship her with an older student like Daisy?
At the same time, Daisy can’t be too much older than Ruth, who can’t be too much older than Jennifer.
It’s all a liiiiittle bit precarious, and I think they’re gonna keep avoiding giving Leslie a specific age because of it.
Ruth is 21, I believe. Without digging, I think I remember Leslie mentioning she’s at least 25.
I’m not inherently against age gap relationships at least not conceptually. I think there’s just a limit though and the more you go beyond that the more questions you gotta ask about how they met and that’s when it get problematic. Like if you’re in your thirties and your partner’s in their 20’s that’s fine to me. You’re both adults. I hesitate to believe a 60 year old met someone who just turned 18 organically. For my opinion I always saw Leslie as low to mid thirties. 29 at the youngest. She had a crush on princess Leia, sliding timescale may apply, but she’s either a Star Wars superfan or a little older than 5 years from 18.
I mean we can’t exactly use Star Wars as a barometer here. It’s Star Wars. It’s been a cultural touchstone for five decades.
The polycule is Sierra, Grace, and Mandy. Agatha is happily unconnected to everyone else’s nonsense.
(Unless you’re proposing that Grace and Mandy switch out their third. Though personally I vote for just adding Agatha.)
((Agatha’s polycule is Gil and Tarvek.))
I wonder whether Gil and Tarvek have realized that yet? (The Castle just thinks it’s the beginning of the new Heterodyne’s harem.)
Wonder if the plan is to cascade breakups until everyone is single and available for a re-shuffle of partners
Well, I honestly wasn’t sure what way Dina was going to go with this. But I can honestly say it definitely wasn’t a knee-jerk reaction – And that much, I had correctly predicted.
As much as we all know Dina has been far more patient than Becky deserved, it’s good to see that she has her limits. She may let herself get emotional about things later, privately, but for here and now, the simple fact is, this relationship is not functional, and does not seem like it can be salvaged.
There is no point in clinging to false hope that it could be. There is no point in dragging it out. Maybe it seems to utilitarian, but it really is the right thing to do, right now.
While Becky could actually make progress on her fixation and then demonstrate to Dina that she’s gotten over Joyce and truly wants to be with Dina – I’m not sure Dina will necessarily reciprocate again.
Even now – It’s plain to see that Becky’s far more upset about the fact while Joyce’s orientation isn’t an absolute non-starter to a potential relationship anymore, Joyce has very clearly fallen for someone who is not-Becky, than she is about the fact that she has torpedoed her actual relationship with Dina. And that sort of thing is definitely going to stick in Dina’s mind, cementing the whole “consolation prize” thing.
This is a rough patch, sure, but I think you’re being wayyy more pessimistic about this relationship than the strip is really giving us reason to be? There’s no reason that Becky and Dina can’t patch this up.
I’m not sure I want that as of now. It’s too soon to decide either way whether this is the end of their relationship, but I at least want Becky to work on herself and be in a much better place mentally before Dina reinvests in her. Patching things up, at least to me, implies even more work on Dina’s end and I think our dino girl has done more than enough. She’s had the rebound hanging over her from the start. Dina deserves never to feel like the consolation prize ever again.
Damn you Willis!
Not to go all 12 step on this but…
A spouse of an alcoholic has to remember. They didn’t cause this. They cant fix this. They’re not responsible for this.
Nothing Dina has done has caused Becky’s breakdown. Nor can she fix it. Only Becky can retrieve this situation. Becky is traumatized and has lost almost everything and everyone. But she doesn’t have to lose Dina.
Becky, being a suicide survivor, and having multiple traumatic losses in such a short time really puts her at risk for self harm. An intervention and getting her into therapy would be priority number one.
Aren’t most people consolation prices? Almost nobody winds in a relationship with their first love. This and the whole rebound thing is something I don’t understand. If I love someone all I need from that person is that they let me love them, and whatever other feelings they may have are irrelevant so long as I get the affection and attention I want. For me affection is like money, it doesn’t matter where it’s from so long as I have it. Now Becky isn’t letting Dina love her right now, but with a bit of patience and support I’m sure she’ll go back to her usual self. Yet it seems that this is not acceptable to Dina, she wants something more from Becky, but it’s something I don’t really grasp.
I think the idea is that even if someone only started dating you because they couldn’t date someone else and you happened to be available, and you both know it, at some point there should stop being reminders of that. And there certainly shouldn’t be blatant indications that they never stopped feeling that way about you. Like, it’s fine to still carry a torch for other people, but those feelings need to not be made your girlfriend’s problem. Becky saying that shit about “Joyce kissed Dorothy, God is dead” is her treating Dina’s affection as a lesser option, directly to Dina’s face.
+1
There’s a vast difference between “you are not my first love, but I love you” and “I love you, but not as much as I love someone else I can’t have”.
Being in a relationship means your partner’s feelings are your problem, though. You comfort them when they’re sad, they comfort you when you’re sad. That Becky went to Dina shows that she values the relationship, and that she withdrew when she saw she was hurting Dina shows she cares about Dina’s feelings. If I were Becky I would be acting the same way. What I’m having trouble with is understanding why Dina is hurt, because if I were Dina I would be comforting Becky.
We’re talking about different things when we say “[your partner’s] problem, I think. I can’t quite articulate the timbre I’m describing, and I’m not sure I fully get yours either. To elaborate slightly, I’m saying something like “The torch you’re carrying for someone else isn’t your partner’s weight to bear”. There can be room for a “But I can carry you” moment, for sure, but I don’t think it should be an expectation.
If I may, I think i get what you mean by “problem”. It’s the difference between having a healthy conversation and trusting my partner to help me work through my feelings, or venting my spleen and having a tantrum and forcing my partner to manage my feelings for their own safety and well being.
Here, that would be the difference between coming to Dina and explaining how she feels and why vs. walking in, declaring God to be dead and refusing to say any more about it. The former shows Dina that she is loved and trusted to be there when Becky is at her most vulnerable. The latter forces Dina to navigate an emotional minefield.
This is kinda parallel to that cheating discussion we had a couple days ago, I think — the problem isn’t “Becky loves Joyce, too”, the problem is “Becky loves Joyce in a way that indicates that Dina isn’t enough for her”.
Remember, Becky’s reaction here is pretty easy to interpret as “I was with you because I thought it was impossible to be with Joyce, but now that I know it was (on a sexuality basis) possible it is causing me extreme distress that it’s Dorothy and not me.”
As I added on to Taffy’s comment, “Dina, I love you, even though Joyce was my first love” isn’t making Dina a consolation prize in the same way as “Dina, I ONLY loved you because Joyce wasn’t available, and I’m upset because now I realize/believe EITHER I could have had Joyce in some universe where I’d tried harder in some way OR I’m not good enough for Joyce to love back.”
I’m unclear on what the difference is between “I love you even though you weren’t my first love” and “I only loved you because my first love wasn’t available”. They’re both describing the same causal chain. If my husband hadn’t broken up with his high school girlfriend he wouldn’t love me, but he did, so he does. Her loss is my gain, as it were. It would be a problem if he was having breakdowns about her on a regular basis, but it would be the same problem if he was having breakdowns about anything else on a regular basis. The breakdowns are the problem, not their subject.
I’m guessing this ties up to my inability to feel sexual jealousy. Becky’s breakdown here is indistinguishable to me from her having a breakdown because her grandmother died or something. Becky’s sad, if I were Dina I would comfort her, the reason why Becky’s sad isn’t important. If Becky was going to be sad all the time going forward then that would be a problem, but because the sad itself would be interfering with the relationship, not because she’s sad over some other girl.
Let me reframe — we’re not really talking about sexual jealousy, we’re talking about having the ability to understand some people are monogamous. Dina’s worry/feeling here is probably close “If Becky is monogamous, and Becky feels like this about Joyce, there is no room left for Dina.”
The big difference between the two “not your first love” is the idea of HOW that prior love impacts the current one — usually, grant, this is most painful in a monogamous or hierarchical-poly context, but the important this is whether or not there’s a perceived possibility that the person in question is likely to REPLACE you with the first love, y’know? Like, my partner knows I still care about MANY of my ex-girlfriends, but they occupy a place in my heart and life where my nesting partner doesn’t have to worry that one of those women could reappear and I would leave.
Dina, by contrast, I think has internalized the idea that if Joyce showed up right this second and said, “Becky, I was wrong, please drop Dina and be with me”, Becky would at least consider accepting. THAT is what hurts — when the emotional context is such that you feel like you’re disposable relative to the first love.
(That first paragraph is really badly worded, I’m not accusing you of not having empathy, I’m trying to say that maybe you’re not thinking through things from a possible other perspective).
The difference is that “I love you even though you weren’t my first love” doesn’t imply that you love your first love more than them, or even that you’re still in love with your first love, whereas “I only love you because I couldn’t be with this other person” DOES.
“You weren’t my first love, but I do love you all the same” vs “You weren’t my first love, but I guess you’ll do for now.”
The difference is the whether the person has moved on from that prior love in a healthy way.
If enough time has passed that you’re no longer preoccupied with wanting Person A back and/or with being angry at them, then you may be able to love and prioritize a new Person B in the way that they deserve.
If instead of working through those preoccupations you start dating Person B immediately in order to numb the feelings, that’s when Person B may be said to be a rebound or a consolation prize. Person B in this case tends not to last due to risks such as: you abandoning Person B to go back to Person A if the opportunity arises, or you realizing that Person B was simply a sort of “methadone” for your “additction” to Person A and not really any better of a match for you.
Well, the only way I know how to move on from a previous obsession is to bury it under a new one, so what you’re describing just reads like a normal relationship to me. When I first started dating my husband I was open about the fact that I loved my ex-girlfriend much more than I loved him, and he accepted it in the expectation that feeding my growing obsession with him would eventually cause it to grow stronger than my lingering obsession with my ex. Becky has not made a secret of her feelings for Joyce, but on any given day her feelings for Dina are obviously stronger, so all Dina needs to do is have patience and let Becky’s feelings for her continue to grow.
If everybody got their first choice in a partner, half the male population would be dating Scarlett Johansson.
Man, I really feel pity for her admin assistant, more than anyone else. That’s going to be one hell of a busy calendar.
I doubt that.
I think if it was based on “who they’ll admit to wanting the most in public”? Then yes.
If it were actually based on who they’d honestly want the most, it would be way more diverse than that.
Admittedly nasty thought:
C’mon, Willis, cut away from Becky’s dealing with her emotions with another panel of Dorothy and Joyce getting it on like you did with Joe/Sarah’s conversation. Really hammer home what’s happening.
I mean.
The difference being that that isn’t something they’re doing TO either Becky or Dina?
I can sympathize with feeling like that final panel was meant to underline that Joe’s feelings don’t matter and that Joe’s fans should like… be quiet, I guess, but I don’t think that was the point at all.
I think Willis cut to the two of them being together to illustrate Sarah’s reason for thinking what she does, and I think IF it was more blatantly sexual than other cutaways, it kind of needed to be, because we still had folks in the comments loudly speculating that maybe Joyce would freak out once the panties were off and break up with Dorothy.
Yeah, that’s why I said it was nasty.
Fair!
We traded Becky and Dina for the dull duo?
Agreed. Broke up two of my favorite ships and now we have the Ugh couple. At least there is Danny/Sal and I’m keen on Jennifer/Alice.
Im actually rooting for Alice/Asma lowkey
Totally worth it!
I get that they’re your otp, but like, a little tact maybe?
Tact for the fictional characters breaking up??
Tact for the people who like this pairing and are upset that it might end up breaking up?
I dunno. Do you need to show up every day to shit on Joyce and Dorothy Dorothy even though a lot of people like THAT pairing?
Yeah like, if you are free to display that you dislike a ship a lot, even if it might upset shippers, then they should be free to display their love for it even if ig might upset other shipper. I dunno, maybe it’s just the autistic brain thinking that is the most fair.
Maybe, because the difference seems pretty clear in doing so as a reply to someone or not. I don’t think the comment was really that bad, but I think that’s a basic stance that some people have in the comments that others don’t– saying something as its own comment being a general saying what you think, saying it as a reply to someone being saying it *to them.* I mean, this is Dot, the one who was making the hater containment threads so that people wouldn’t be going after those in their posts about liking the ship…
I guess it doesn’t make much of a difference to some people. To others, it makes a lot of difference.
I mean, ehhhh 🤷 the original comment was already about bringing down other ship they didn’t like, so fair is fair i believe. These kind of subtlety of communication get lost on me honestly.
Thank you, omg
Bit of a downgrade, but at least this is interesting.
While I don’t have a great track record at predictions, I’m not sure they are donezo.
Dina would be pretty well justified in breaking up at this point. But she knows Becky is in a pretty dark place right now and what she says now is not necessarily indicative of her truest feelings. Having unresolved feelings for Joyce does not obviate their pretty deep relationship. It’s possible Dina is saying something that reflects the harshness of her feelings in the moment while also having the capability to come back and talk it out when Becky is better able.
That said, it does feel like this could require Dina to be doing most of the emotional heavy lifting and that’s not pretty unfair, even if I think it’s possible.
At first i read it as harsh, but I can also read it as “this is a problem my girlfriend is having with her own feelings, there is little i can do to help. I ought not fight because her feelings are not endorsed. I love her but I’ve said what i needed to say and my energy would be better spent elsewhere such as with Amber, while she deals with this.”
Not really what Becky needed to hear, but then again none of this was really what Dina needed to hear either.
Sounds like they’ve reached a point where they need to begin healing separately. Maybe neither of them are equipped to help the other on their journey anymore.
While I like to do a bit of trolling by claiming this ship had to sink in order for Jorothy to set sail, I do think Becki is going to be more than fine by the end of this. Right around the kidnapping arc, Willis posted a bit about the story line saying that he had strong feelings about how media liked to make it’s gay characters suffer for drama. He also went on to say he would never make Becki a tragic heroine because of that. That’s stronger plot armor than like anyone in the cast enjoys. Rough waters now but always a sunny destination.
Willis also said that nobody would die in this strip, and that didn’t last all that long, either.
Meanwhile, Walky who got cheated on and mocked for it with the tacit approval of his erstwhile girlfriend (who, I remind everyone, didn’t even have the shred of decency to break up with him herself) is… somewhere, I guess.
I think he is on the toilet and Jennifer ran off to get some pepto and while at the store she runs into Alice and…
What about the men? Why are we wasting time on all these women feelings? /s
Because they were the ones who got cheated on.
“Cheated”
Imagine how much nicer it would have been if Dorothy had said to Walky “Joyce and I have finally recognized our feelings for each other. But don’t worry! We haven’t kissed yet! We’re going toto go do that right after this conversation, but we wanted to make sure we filed the correct paperwork first.”
How different might Walky’s rain have been! “Oh thank God for that! For a moment i was afraid that this was going to be emotionally challenging, but your decision to honor the sanctity of our deeply emotional four-day-long commitment has spared me from the emotional turmoil.”
Correct. Cheated. Dorothy even says as much.
Now, while you’re right that merely doing things in the ethically correct order in the bluntest way possible would in particular not have spared Walky any pain, there’s at least a chance Dorothy would have framed it a slightly better manner than you’ve laid out.
As for “four-day commitment”, well, that’d be the other half of it — Dorothy wasn’t ever going to treat Walky any better, because she’s been an absolute shitheel of a partner to everyone she’s dated in the strip so far, including her entire previous relationship with Walky AND part of the time when they were broken up and he was trying to date Lucy.
You’re using a legalistic idea of cheating and a prescriptive notion of how relationships are supposed to work on order to apply a moral weight to their actions that isn’t warranted.
Try as I might, I cannot figure out any way to connect “legalistic” or “prescriptive” with “cheating is cheating if the people in the relationship say it’s cheating”, which is approximately the most morally relativist definition possible.
So fucking disingenuous to reduce Walky and Dorothy’s entire relationship to their rebound lmfao
You’re right, of course. If we consider the fact that she already dumped him once before, their relationship seems even less serious.
*Trigger Warning*
I’ve got a bad feeling, a real bad feeling that the drugs Dina stole for Amber is going to be a chekhov’s gun. Please let me be wrong, please please let me be wrong.
oh. whoof. I don’t think it’ll be a successful attempt, but… the pieces are there.
Doesn’t seem likely. Is Becky going to sneak into the room and steal the drugs without either Dina or Amber noticing? Drugs she doesn’t even know are there?
Scenario: she goes into amber and Dina’s room to try and patch things over, it goes REALLY badly, Dina storms off, amber’s still in bed, pills are on the desk, Becky sees them…
After reading more comments I will say this about Dina and Becky.
From the very beginning I always felt like their relationship dynamic was a bit uneven. They made out at a party and just kinda decided to date. Then the whole Ross situation happened and trauma bonded them. From that point onward Dina has been the emotional support Becky needed to keep her grounded. But over time Becky seems to rely on Dina more and more to calm her anxieties. And I can’t think of too many times Becky has extended the same effort towards Dina. Sure she bought her a big dinosaur but I cant really think of many times Becky has shown dina emotional support. (Maybe when the6 were trying to find out what aroused Dina for sex? Even then there was an undercurrent of Becky worrying Dina was more attracted to someone else.) Heck, Dina put in a suit to help with Becky’s worries about sexual identity and she just starts panicking about dina becoming trans and leaving her. And it’s a LOT. It’s a LOT for an 18 year old to deal with. And after all that effort shes putting in to constantly make Becky comfortable the fact that Becky not only seems to still carry a big torch for Joyce but also just tells Dina to “go ahead and leave”
After all the effort Dina put in and Becky is still saying stuff like that to her? That’s how little you think of me and all the effort uve been putting in? I can see why Dina felt insulted. She’s also a person who can be very emotional and frustrated and anxious despite her often neutral expressions and I feel like Becky hasn’t been proactive in checking how Dina is doing right now emotionally. I think Becky may have to actually meet Dina half way and start checking in on HER feelings. Dina isn’t Becky’s gift from God. She’s a thinking breathing human with her own problems too.
Dina is 19, but yeah I concur with all of this 100%
after all her effort, she’s come to the conclusion that what’s happening with Becky is a problem which she cannot solve, and which isn’t her responsibility
Dina is an amazing person, she did what was for the best, but this is still very painful for her
why Dina, precious Dina… the Empress of Evolution don’t deserve none a this!!! 🦖😭💔
not just amazing… Dina is LEGENDARY T~T
she getting a plushie!
a PLUSHIE!
in a little over a month, she gonna be alongside so many other toys
in the bedrooms and cars of so many enbies, girls and boys
🥹😭🦖
*plays “Welcome To Jurassic Park” piano cover on hacked muzak*
Lol. I guess now we now why Willis didn’t double their money doing a Becky plushie so you had to buy both and keep them together forever. The signs were there for months! We should’ve noticed!
that’s what I be sayin, The Empress of Evolution don’t need Becky
the two were never Latios and Latias, it’s just one of them being Deoxys
Dina don’t need to be dating ANYONE to shine, she LEGENDARY just as she is
her sentiments that they would “inevitably change each other as they continued to interact” were something she used on some level to justify the kinds of escalated efforts she made to please Becky,
but Dina now realizes that the problem wasn’t with her putting in enough practical effort, but an emotional problem with Becky which she is ultimately not equipped to solve nor should be responsible for
hence the title of the next storyline,
“I’m The Problem, It’s Me”
Completely agreed. I loved their relationship, and if it does survive this and becomes healthier I’d really like that, but you’re not wrong that Becky doesn’t seem to ever soothe Dina’s frustrations or anxieties (see Dina’s failure to get an Autism diagnosis). It’s not just Becky who treats Dina this way, but the fact that she’s her girlfriend does mean she should be better about this than others. Becky needs help and therapy that doesn’t come from her girlfriend alone, and Dina needs a partner who cares about her as much as she cares about them.
Which now has me thinking more about how Joe “I got my autistic gf a weighted blanket because my autistic mom loves them and I think she would too” Rosenthal really would be a good fit for Dina down the road.
I think this is a pretty sound analysis! I like Becky and Dina as a couple but it doesn’t mean their dynamic is always the healthiest. Maybe it blowing up is actually good, it gives them a chance to take stock of what’s really important.
Irony is when you constantly fret about your significant others leaving you but you don’t do anything put in any work to make them stay.
Joyce has three people in love with her. I don’t know if I could tell her she’s doing it wrong since there was never any question of me being in that position.
Also Willis please protect Becky and Dina from any (more) harm…
As someone who frequently found themselves as the hinge in love triangles as a young adult (at one point having been proposed to by my ex, my boyfriend and on the fence with a third because 16/17 year olds shouldn’t be off at college by themselves making those decisions), I’d say having multiple people actively in love with you without a polycule situation established or in the cards is actually a big red flag you’re doing something wrong lol. I for one was not handling my mess, ever.
[If a polycule is in the cards or established, obviously this does not automatically apply.]
oooof. like dina deserves to be mad but that is gonna *wreck* becky
Really destroying all established storylines, huh? Are they even in college anymore???
Don’t you dare give him ideas; I can’t handle the thought of the cast dealing with mortgages
Inb4 Joyce and Dorothy drop out get an apt in the suburbs and get a whole new cast of friends
And then 10 years later Walky returns having joined forces with the Head Alien to crash Joyce and Dorothy’s wedding with an army of future kids…
I’ll only allow it if the whole new cast of friends IS the whole cast of Friends.
To be fair “Becky and Dina are dating” isn’t a storyline, it’s a state of affairs. What they’re dealing with now is a storyline, so now they have something to do other than be cute together and occasionally offer a snappy punchline.
especially now that Joyce and Dorothy have turned into the latter.
Okay, I have to be honest. It has been a very long while since something shocking and dark and heightened happened, like the kidnapping or the car chase or Mike’s death. Becky is having a brutal time with her feet underneath her kicked out repeatedly, first with self harm thoughts, then fluid sexuality, now this.
I am starting to worry Becky might be going to a very very dark place without Dina, Joyce, or Dorothy in her life.
For all the people crying about that being the worst thing Dina could have said —
For all that this strip likes to paint her as kind of alien, Dina is not the most emotionally capable, trained or even experienced in dealing with a loved one’s breakdown. She’s literally not built to deal with this reasonably. First Amber’s injury, now this with Becky, and I’m sure all the campus-wide commotion with the protest was HARD for an autistic (I’d have a bad time coming to grips with it, for instance). Big thing about autistics that I’ve learned is that we do NOT handle chaos well.
People in pain DON’T make good decisions. Dina is NOT going to approach this intelligently or even fairly to Becky. This is bringing out a whole dumpster-full of doubts she’s apparently ALWAYS had about this relationship. Right now, she’s in no shape to deal with Becky, and Becky is in no condition to reassure Dina.
This is true, but it is also still true that what she said was the worst possible thing to say to Becky in the given situation. Giving someone having a heart attack ibuprofen because you were shutting down and not processing labels and saw “red-orange circle == orange circle == aspirin” (or just assuming that NSAIDS being colloquially called aspirin means they function similarly) is both completely understandable, but also still one of the worse decisions you could make in the situation.
I don’t think Becky thinks of Dina as a consolation prize. She’s just feeling hurt and rejected all over again, not because she never got over Joyce, but because seeing Joyce with Dorothy just put things in a new and painful context for her, and she’s having RSD. It’s pretty clear that Becky’s got a form of ADHD. And she’s too much in her feelings about what she’s retroactively experiencing as another whole layer of rejection to be able to spend the necessary effort to be careful about how she’s expressing herself.
I wonder if Dina didn’t literally disappear in the last panel, but it only symbolizes that Dina is now “Beneath [Becky’s] Notice”, same as she is for most people?
Like a “Becky has retreated so far into her own heart, she’s beyond Dina’s ability to reach” thing?
Everyone shipping Dorothy and Joyce, I hope you’re enjoying the fallout of their selfishnes.
Becky needs to realize that this isn’t her losing out on Joyce, but rather having to leave behind the idea of her that she had been in love with. She needs to make it clear to Dina that this isn’t about her being a consolation prize, but rather a panic attack about why she didn’t trigger these feelings in Joyce and Dorothy did. It’s feelings of inadequacy and “loss” of the last person she considered to be family.
That would be a very articulate and emotionally mature thing for a person to do in this situation. Sadly, this is Becky, who is more likely wanting to push everyone away, or self sabotage herself and let her rejection and fear of abandonment dictate her actions.
I am very much enjoying the fallout of them getting together, and the fact that we’re finally getting some fallout!
Thanks for asking!
Wait, you read a college drama comic, and you like it when people get into fights about their love lives?
This reshapes my understanding of everything!
can we please stop blaming it on Joyce X Dorothy?
the way they came about was less than ideal, yes,
but the breaking up of Becky X Dina? let’s face it, it was an accident WAITING to happen
blaming Dorothy X Joyce (or Amber) isn’t gonna make Dina feel like less of a consolation prize, this is not what she’d want at all 😔
If two people who are not a part of your relationship kiss, and that ends your relationship, then you were never really on super solid ground to begin with.
And if we do hold Joyce and Dorothy responsible, then what does that even mean? Is Joyce just banned from kissing women her whole life because Becky’s relationship will immediately implode if she does?
Think it’s less what they did and more how they (didn’t) handle the aftermath until it blew up in everyone’s face. Don’t think Becky would have taken it any better, but at least there would have been an attempt.
Why is it “selfish” for Joyce to fall in love with Dorothy? Does she have some duty to ensure that none of her relationships might possibly bother her incredibly-uncommunicative best friend or something?
Dina and Joe mopey exes club where they eat pizza and talk about dinosaurs
well shit
Knowing me, knowing you (Uh-huh)
There is nothing we can do
Knowing me, knowing you (Uh-huh)
We just have to face it, this time we’re through
Breaking up is never easy, I know
But I have to go
Knowing me, knowing you
It’s the best I can do
a classic, in several senses.
She was treated as a consolation prize. Love the one you are with. I get why she is mad. Upset. The question is will they survive the night?
well shoot, Dina did stop existing.
Joyce? “grand prize“?
If it’s your life and there are problems, there’s a good chance you’re part of the problems and it’s not that the entire world is out to get you. Good news! There are all kinds of ways to learn and work on yourself.
Ooh, she shared the information she had while not paying attention to the faces the other person made