We apparently can’t go more than 4 pages without watching them make out. The more the comic tries to sell me on their relationship, the less interesting I find it, to the extent that this page actually made me roll my eyes. The conflict with Becky and Dina was interesting! It was exciting and emotional! This isn’t.
We’re nearly to the end of the storyline so like I was expecting a cut back to them, but we really can’t go a week without a reminder that yeah, Joyce and Dorothy are fucking now?
After all, knowing Faz, we could literally *right now* be in a weeklong Faz story arc. We won’t know until later, when Joyce and Dorothy head out to grab dinner, and Faz steps out of the closet and marvels that his first college sexual encounter was a threesome, and how the ladies can’t get enough of him.
See, this would make this arc interesting again, so it’s now my headcannon; any time two characters have a sexual encounter I don’t care about, Faz is observing from inside the closet. If the scene happens someplace there is no closet, then he brings one, and sets it up just off-frame.
No, but she might berate them for being careless enough that Becky found out about their relationship by seeing them playing tonsil hockey. I mean it wasn’t deliberate, but it sure was careless.
That part is not their fault. Bragging about it right after Becky asked “how long”, and then again to Hank when Becky was there, that’s on them, though.
I’m actually laughing. Not because I want to see more Joyce and Dorothy, but because people were taking a breath of air with the “Slipshine Quarentine” and they got literally 48 hours before Willis had to go back to this nonsense.
This is what the comic is about now. Best get used to it.
Kind of makes sense. Becky and Dina are not in the same room/location any more so unless we want to see one of them moping by themselves, no point staying with either of them
I mean, I was expecting to see one or both of them react to what just happened.
Maybe some silent tears or a clenched fist.
An over the shoulder look of heartbreak and/or disappointment.
I mean, certain aspects of Roomies, It’s Walky, and Shortpacked are represented in DoA. It’s not entirely crazy.
Not like he’s going to be resurrected or anything. But I would not be shocked at all if, in a few years, there’s a cheerful, friendly blond fellow named Mick working at Galasso’s, who’s main vice is that he seems to live life constantly buzzed.
Serious response, Willis has said on Bluesky that, paraphrased, he just really likes drawing these two and that’s part of the reason there’s so much of them.
Yeah…Wait did Dorothy put on new shirt? It was white, but now it’s orange? I was expecting to come back from the fade to black and find them with less clothes not new ones. I’m not against it, just a bit confused.
Telling Becky she’s the problem while she’s in the middle of a mental health episode is not okay. Entirely possible that Dina didn’t even mean it to be as bad as it was in context, but it’s still a really shitty thing to say to someone in Becky’s headspace.
Actually, Dotty too, now that I’m paying attention.
Like, my wife and I both wear glasses, but we both take them off before sexy times. They get in the way, clink together when you kiss, and you risk getting them dirty or scratched.
So did Dorothy… I guess that at least means their glasses are well-fitted to their heads? Mine would likely fall off, or I’d have to keep making sure they stay on, and then there are points where they’re in the way…
I’m guessing it’s not so much a “why did they stay on?” thing and more of a “why would we delay the sexings for the two seconds it would take to remove them?” thing.
Glasses? Can take ’em or leave ’em. It’s the watches that bother me, they’re gonna get sweaty/other fluids on them, and leave an imprint on someone’s back. Yuck.
Yeah, the watch staying on is what I noticed! Not MY kink, but you know, I would not be surprised if Dorothy wants to see exactly how many seconds they spend on each “task”
Given the titles of the next TWO story arcs I assume we’re not going to get any kind of resolution on the only people I really care about here for a long, long time.
Except that she is broken up. In the current situation, do you feel that Joe or Joyce would kiss, or call eachtoher a cutesy nickname, or go on a date or do anything else a couple does. Joyce and Joe had a monoamorous relationship That has clearly ended. Joe proposed a polyamorous relationship. Joyce didn’t dismiss the idea, but said she’d come back to it. Joyce and Joe are currently not in a romantic relationship. A promise to consider a relationship at a later time, is not a relationship.
Joyce is currently only in a relationship with Dorothy. Nobody else.
I think this is a case where using the narrow definition of “relationship” results in some imprecision. She doesn’t have any explicit agreements with Dorothy other than the word “girlfriend”. She and Joe didn’t have a complete “we are broken up now” conversation.
She also has very important relationships with several of her friends! And I only bring this up because remembering that those too are relationships highlights what I’m talking about, about the fact that she clearly is still in relationship with Joe, even if we don’t expect them to have sex again without a conversation.
Don’t you know that in order to breakup with someone you have to shout “WE ARE BROKEN UP!” Like Michael from The Office declaring bankruptcy?! Then you both have to sign the official breakup contract in your own blood and burn it as a sacrifice to the relationship gods.
In fact, she did not. She said that she had to break up with him because dating both of them at the same time would make her a “hussy”. Recall, though, that the same strip ended with her realizing that by her own definition, she was a hussy. Then she suddenly remembered the newspaper, and ran off.
Ya aint wrong.
But then, she neither took any clear stance on his counter-offer of an open relationship.
I´d say that insinuates she´s at least thinking about it.
There’s definitely a clear lack of closure between the two, and while closure may not be owed when ending a relationship, it’s definitely a respectful thing to do if you want to maintain any sort of relationship with the person afterwards (especially if cheating was involved for the breakup in the first place)
As well, I think the original post here was more about her not talking to Dorothy about the poly offer if she’s considering it, rather than about what’s owed to Joe.
She was not there for any of Walky and Amber’s recent interactions, so the only reason she would consider that is if Walky talked about his feelings.
And we all know that wasn’t happening, even offscreen, let alone feelings about another woman he’s has feelings for with the partner he was then banging and said partner being friends with said woman.
I mean, Dorothy would do that (and did, albeit in a roundabout and mostly unwitting way), but Walky wouldn’t; for one, he’d have to understand his feelings, and, two, he’s surprisingly more tactful than that.
That much is true. If she’s not even considering it, there’s no need to bring it up.
I think there have been enough hints that she hasn’t ruled it out to keep that in mind though.
I don’t think Walky has even thought of Amber since he broke up with Lucy, let alone gotten with Dorothy.
Yes, Walky and Dorothy just broke up like 5 hours ago, so he is available, but Amber definitely hasn’t crossed his mind (onscreen at least).
Amber, on the other hand, definitely wants to get back with Walky, at least according to Booster and some of her reactions to Walky x Dorothy, but I believe she is too caught up in her recent injury (and possibly the fallout from AG attacking cops in defense of protesters) to make a move.
Long story long, I don’t see Walky being ready to move on to anyone at the moment.
heck I don’t even know if Willis removed it or if it got flagged that many times
but even if he did, fair enough
all I wanted in the end was to share the dialogue parts to make them more accessible to people who don’t trust slipshine or don’t like porn, and even if that’s technically allowed here, doing it wholesale the way I did was kinda pushing it in retrospect, lesson learned XD
(also felt the need to lighten the mood a bit given Becky X Dina shippers just had their 9/11)
That is an interesting concept. Would you mind expanding on it? This sounds like something you have put a lot of thought into, and I am curious as to your insights.
Christian atheists are, well, yeah like biomanzilla says up there,
they’re the kinda atheists who be like “I don’t believe in god, but the god I don’t believe in is Not Jesus”
as in, someone who, despite no longer believing in god, heaven, or anything supernatural, still operates under a set of ethics and schemas informed by either a Christian upbringing, or even just by growing up entrenched in the culture, customs, civics, traditions, language, etc of a country largely built by and for it’s (white) Christian majority.
regardless of creed, these institutions remain a dominant force on the schemas and moral intuition of the people of this country, super-fundie like Joyce or no, it has influence over people often in ways they don’t even REALIZE
“they’re the kinda atheists who be like “I don’t believe in god, but the god I don’t believe in is Not Jesus””
Slightly off-topic, but it reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) tale of Madeline Murray O’Hare delivering an address in Ireland during the Troubles. During the Q&A section, according to the tale, one man asked her, “Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?”
She replied, “I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in God.”
He said, “Aye, but is it the Catholic God or the Protestant God you don’t believe in?”
So, if I understand you, its the idea that while an individual may not believe in a god, they derive many of their beliefs from the culture shaped by it? For example, an aesthetic Viking might not believe in Valhalla but still think everyman should aspire to die while trying to mug the English?
Basically it’s another way for Christians to feel smug about atheists. “They think they don’t believe in our religion, but they get their morality from us anyway.” Like everything else Christians believe about atheists, it’s both supremely egotistical and wrong.
*and I say conservative, not right-wing, because nominal leftists can also unthinkingly absorb conservative principles, and Calvinism is pretty popular there too
heck, it’s why (mostly white) liberals in the United States, despite being the MOST left leaning in our country in particular, actually tend to score fairly right of center in global politics at large
besides conservatives using “liberal” as a catch-all term to describe their enemies,
liberals in our country *present* as left-leaning because they want civil liberties; however, a majority of them believe in the system, and in capitalism, and will never be anti-establishment (especially if they’re white)
You’re going to break your glasses, and superglue is actually not a very good adhesive for the side of your frames because you’re bound to twist it slightly putting them on and off, and it doesn’t love torque. Plus, you’ll glue your fingers together, as I did several times last night.
Genuinely: they’re fictional characters. It made me wince a little to read, but that’s not a form of harm you’re doing to anyone, Jay. We all make each other uncomfortable sometimes, discomfort is not in itself harm.
Pretend I set up the hater containment thread further up the page. Kvetch here! Just like be cool about it. No homophobia or misogyny. Joyce and Dorothy are not the devil.
I read the comic because it satisfies my trash goblin needs and because I’m a masochist still waiting for the Science Fiction and/or Fantasy elements to kick back in.
It’s funny because the pairing is decent from a narrative point of view. It pushes Becky to some hard truths, it’s more Joe/Sarah friendship, you know, it might even be something interesting for Raidah.
But the execution isn’t working for me, them being ‘cute’ for each other every ten strips when other more interesting storylines are going on feels less cute and more like a delay tactic. Plus not a fan of what it feels like it’s done to Jocelyne’s character.
I disagree on the hating hyper positive people, golden retriever characters are wonderful for me, I just hate Lucy because she’s boring. I hated her when I read Shortpacked lol. I hate her here. If she were a seasoning, she’d be flour lol. I may dislike Doyce, but I’d rather the next 200 days of updates just be this page with different dialogue than ever have to reexperience Lucy/Walky.
But then again, she’s just a mix between the worst traits of Joyce and Billifer. The need for social climbing, the need to be religiously correct, and a weird mix of relentless possibly faux sweetness and absolute blind belief in what cool people tell her to believe. She is basically the least relatable member of the cast for me.
Remember how the last Danny/Sal plot line with her parents managed to thread the needle of heavier character stuff and sweet couple stuff? Why couldn’t we get that here?
That’s because this isn’t her story. The title is “Not so smooth criminals” Joyce and Dorothy are the criminals. You don’t have to like them but this is a chapter about them and very specifically about them being criminals which at least implies they’re morally bad people or behaving badly. Very fitting for a chapter where they both breakup with their boyfriends and then fuck. We’re getting what’s advertised here.
A) I’m talking the entire narrative surrounding Jocelyne, not just this one storyline
B) G-d forbid a trans woman want a trans woman’s narrative to actually be about that trans woman and not the character development of her little cis-ter
The Carla/Charlie pairing hasn’t done a TON for me, because it just seems to have settled into place very quickly and is mostly just ‘people being cute together’. And there’s a place for cute, it’s just that their brand of cute hasn’t made me interested in the same vein of like, Danny/Sal cute.
I think your complaints on trans rep is valid I just also think the expectation s for this chapter are misplaced. Jocelyne’s story was basically a side mission here and at least for me I’d prefer she actually get a full story arc to herself over coming out in the same chapter Dorothy and Joyce fuck for the first time. Arguably Jocelyne’s part could’ve even been cut but I think the protest plotline and her being seen by Hank kinda made a inevitable outcome that needed to logically be addressed.
I think if Jocelyne hadn’t met Joe, I’d have been more on board with how she was handled. But the fact that she knew Joyce had a boyfriend and even met/teased him a bit before being seemingly gung-ho on the Joyce/Dorothy train feels like I missed something there and she was just reduced to be a in-universe supporter for the ship (because nobody else was going to be).
@Nono I didn’t realize that till now. That is kinda weird considering she met Joe and like two days later she’s totally supporting her sister cheating. I guess Jocey don’t give a fuck! That’s kind of an amusing character quirk if it stays consistent.
I think she already suspected Joyce and Dorothy had something going on even if they didn’t see it yet themselves. I interpreted her as deciding not to interfere in her sister’s love life because she had bigger things to focus on (Gaza protests).
Would you rather have no trans characters in this comic (or anything else ever,) unless they tell the one specific story of transhood you want to see? Trans people ain’t a monolith, more than one depiction can be authentic or at least respectful. I’ve known people who remind me of Carla, or of Jocelyne. I personally think it’s great that the trans women in this comic are two very different characters. They’re not going to represent everyone’s experiences, but we at least have acknowledgement that trans women are varied as people. This is miles beyond most media not representing them at all, having exactly one tragedy porn character, or transphobic villain shit.
Malaya is not like me, but parts of ’em are sort of aspirational (I’m team enbie.) I think having less realistic, for-fun kind of characters on occasion is valid too. We have enough misery in real life, right? Can we not enjoy seeing our kind of people winning in fiction?
Jocelyne (and to a lesser extent, Carla) is one of the most relatable trans characters in all of media to me, and I don’t think your personal dislike of those characters equates to the comic having some sort of problem with portraying us.
Not every character can be the main characters. I’ve wanted Malaya to show up more, but them not getting a massive spotlight arc where they drown out other characters doesn’t mean the comic has a problem with Filipino characters. Malaya being an asshole also doesn’t mean that.
Not everything needs to be “representation,” sometimes characters can just be people. People are flawed and complex and not always on camera for everything you want to see.
Megan, you are within your rights not to take an issue with the portrayal of trans women in this strip, and I am within my rights to take issue with it. With that said, I would kindly request that we please go back to mutually ignoring each other’s posts going forward. I do not find you to be a pleasant person to converse with.
if you baselessly accuse the nonbinary author of transphobic writing, after months of hypocritically complaining about supposedly made up accusations of bigotry, i am going to continue to explain why youre wrong. i dont care if you read it, but several cis people in these comments have openly stated they try and learn trans politics from you, and you do an incredibly bad job
I’ll ignore whatever comments you make that aren’t actively making my life as a queer woman worse.
Gonna have to second what Megan says here. This is an extremely rude thing to say, and she has every right to counter your own perspective’s on trans issues on the comics. I personally appreciate her doing so, since I think I have nearly always disagreed with you when it comes to trans issues as well, but don’t always have the bandwitdth to communicate as such.
I’ll go for a more nuanced kvetch, which is that I’m kind of bummed that this arc is what got me to finally start commenting on this comic. I’ve been reading it for about ten years now, ever since I found (and finished) Shortpacked. I jumped over to here, binged everything, loved it a lot, kept loving it a lot… And then this specific arc and how just about everything in it has been handled got me to actually read and join in on the comments.
It’s not just that I find this relationship boring to read, or that my favorite ship (Joe/Joyce) is falling by the wayside for it, or that the messy drama has nothing to do with the cheating, or that you’ve got a Free Palestine protest acting as the backdrop to a white cis lesbian love story, or the discomfort of a white girl mocking a Black boy about stealing his girlfriend… It’s all of the above, and the fact that I want to be able to say positive things about this comic because I really really enjoyed it up until this arc. I just hope it gets better so I can return to enjoying it and talk about that instead of posting in a hater containment thread.
I feel the moment this arc is complete Doyce will return to a reasonable level of face smashing (see every other relationship thats being handled perfectly in this series)
It’s just at the moment I’m so tired of these of two when there’s way more interesting shit going on
Well, if I am right – and if Willis wasn’t just trolling everyone with that pie graph of upcoming storylines – things will not go back to “normal”. This is the new normal, what the comic is going to (largely) be about from now on. Get used to it.
Honestly if they just act this fucking lovey dovey for the rest of the series I’ll probably drop it by the end of the year. Ikik “do it already you coward” but I really like DoA for a really long time and this is literally my first time truly not enjoying it and items just because these 2 are being treated so differently than any other couple in the series.
How is every relationship so far more interesting and making me care more than the “endgame” of the main character. I’m just tired lol.
Like fuck Ruth/Billy is dead and buried and I still find their interactions more enjoyable
Because, unlike those other relationships, this one appears to have reached its endpoint. It’s done. It is (as someone observed yesterday) no longer a story but a condition. Whether for the reason(s) I’ve suggested elsewhere on this page, or for others, doesn’t really matter. There will be no further significant developments.
GAME OVER, Good Ending, play again?
Yeah, it definitely feels like it rocketed way ahead of where it should be. Makes it hard to find anything to like about it even without factoring in the cheating, and it doesn’t feel right for either character to dive so deep into this so rapidly. Dorothy is too concerned about the well-being of others (no matter how badly she WANTS to be self-destructive) and Joyce was still so awkward about sex that she’d barely done anything sexual with her boyfriend despite the obvious extreme lust she felt for him. Plus the various issues involved with actually going the distance with a same-sex partner for the first time despite having believed themselves straight a matter of days or HOURS ago.
And it took two weeks to get that far, with far fewer reasons to be so restrained. Doesn’t mean this can’t still happen, but the circumstances really don’t feel right for it to happen this way. This is what I’d expect if they’d had a drunken makeout while both single and this was the next day. Not a morning of finding out Amber was hurt bad enough to need medical care (and can’t properly get it), being outed to the entire campus, confessions to the boyfriends they have feelings for, everything with Becky, and Joyce’s family situation.
Two weeks for a virgin ex-fundie to escalate to blowjobs isn’t slow, it’s speed-running it.
And it’s very likely that having worked through some hangups about fingers and oral with Joe is what made it easier for her to dive right in with Dorothy. It’s just a variation on what she’s already done.
I do think though that’s it’s a bit odd we haven’t seen having any trouble acknowledging her attraction to women since she consciously realized it. It went from full on denial to complete acceptance without any apparent internal struggle. That doesn’t just apply to the physical aspects, but to all of it.
This arc also is what got me to start commenting on this comic! Though, in my case it’s because I got frustrated with the negativity in the comments section and felt the need to express how much I love these two dorks and their adorable relationship. Do-Jo forever!
I’ve seen way more people accusing (with no evidence whatsoever) those of us who don’t like this storyline of homophobia and misogyny than any actual homophobia and misogyny in the comments these days. Feels like some folks are desperate to assume anyone who has criticisms of Joyce and Dorothy must be a bigot, instead of us disliking them for the cheating and other shitty behavior towards other characters.
This, this right here, along with the cesspits that are the subreddit and the discord (so I hear, anyway).
It doesn’t make it any more fun for mere haters to catch strays accusing them of homophobia etc., but it is understandable that some people are on a hair trigger about it.
Fortunately, perhaps, the splash damage can mostly be ignored and there are only like three people who are actively accusing other commenters directly of those things, and frankly the rest of those folks’ takes are also crap so there’s no problem with ignoring them entirely.
I am going to use this opportunity to kvetch that some of yesterday’s comments really, really fucked me up. Sometimes this damn comments section has the same mental impact as doomscrolling and then sometimes I run into someone who has a Take so bad it’s literally triggering and I’m trying to figure out what I want to do about it.
Like, obviously “not read the comments section” and “not read the comic” are options. At the same time, I dunno. The things that genuinely fuck me up here are usually deeply ignorant or aggro takes on mental health and I don’t know if that’s something where “ignore this specific media I still mostly find pleasant” is really going to do much.
I’m sorry that that happened to you. Sometimes the comments section can be a bit much and I’ve found that sometimes I’ll just have to avoid the comments for a few days if things get too heated. Not even reading them. Or, I’ll just go the other direction and make comments that are pretty unserious to try and bring some levity.
Yeaaaah, yesterday triggered the hell out of me and I’ve been in a pretty okay-ish mental state recently. Lots of people inadvertently reinforcing my own self-loathing by agreeing with Becky’s or otherwise accidentally implying that people with self loathing are actively insulting their partners rather than living with a nightmarish delusion that can’t be erased and only suppressed at best, or that someone trying to break down in private and then being found and asked for reassurance having Not the Best Response is somehow equal to accidentally agreeing with someone they’re fundamentally unlovable. I replied a lot and then didn’t check the replies because I kept finding myself typing things about my own illness that I just don’t feel like it helps me to say out loud. I kind of assumed we were gonna hit midnight and the end of the storyline on today’s strip. Now I’m just worried for Becky.
Y’know, when I said yesterday that a smash cut to DoJo fuckin’ to really rub it in on the Becky/Dina storyline would be “admittedly nasty”, I didn’t expect that I was actually predicting what Willis would do.
The only explanation I have for it is that Willis isn’t adjusting anything at all to account for the perceptions of the commentariat (which, to be clear, is fine), because I can’t imagine anything that could possibly throw more gasoline on the fires around here, y’know? (aside from maybe “smash cut to Joyce and JOE” or something equally improbable)
I was like half a second away from doing a reply from the future for that post to observe that you unwillingly called it when I remember that’s against the rules. Instead I’ll say it here: Apollo’s Dodgeball of Prophecy strikes again!
I would love to see next day on the way to Calc and either Sal or Jennifer tells Joyce to not walk with them or “you cant sit with us.” I’m tired of her and Dotty being Karma Houdinis.
Joyce and Dorothy are basically in the process of doing high school stuff right now, because that’s how far behind their peers they were in this arena. The home-school girl and the compulsive over-achiever are obviously gonna be the two people who are doing the least social and emotional development in high school.
I see we’re back to people catching strays from the class of commenter that is unable to distinguish “disagrees with me” from “actively bigoted against me”, too. Always a fun feature of this comment section.
I spent a fair bit of willpower NOT jumping on that particular conversation with both feet, let me tell you. (largely because it won’t do anything but make it worse)
I mean in Jay’s defense, it was a good and valid opinion? They literally said, “it was probably pretty good, from my experience with other Slipshines.”
Like, it isn’t even a negative comment. Jay is very clearly attempting to provide the amount of useful insight they possess. Getting upset about that is just, I don’t know, pedantic?
I paid for it. It was not at all good. There’s a running theme in it that just seems like “Willis heard a single thing about girl-on-girl and ran with it”. If you just want porn of these two, it certainly is porn of these two. If you want good porn, there are other comics on slipshine that made it worth the sub for a month.
It’s only 20 for the first month, then it’s 8 or 9, but I subbed out of curiosity this time and am mostly just getting my 20 bucks worth because the other comics are pretty and well done.
One thing you can say about Willis, the Slipshines are basically always worth the investment even if you don’t like the pairing, because the level of writing is consistent between here and there (i.e., 95% great).
I know people are upset about the tonal whiplash, and I get it… But also I needed a bit of a pallet cleanser from how tense it got with Becky and Dina yesterday.
I was tensing up as the page was loading because of yesterday. So yeah, I want more of what’s going on between Becky and Dina, but a breather strip feels kinda nice too.
People don’t get as much out of a pallet cleanser as you might think. I’ve sprayed down a few pallets myself working temp in a factory. It ain’t all that.
It’s not so much a breather strip I mind, but it’s that it has to be these two specifically. I was quite enjoying my break from DoJo! They’ve dominated the strip for months now and I feel like we could have checked in on some of the other characters who’ve gotten a spotlight this storyline, like Daisy, Raidah, Sarah, or Asma.
This isn’t a breather strip, this is structural. It functions to show non-Slipshine readers like myself that this event sequence has completed without trauma or other negative surprises, and that both participants were happy as a result. This answers several character questions, particularly about sexuality, including questions raised specifically in comments.
It’s rather economical in that way, honestly.
Answering all of those questions retroactively later in text would be weird at best, while not referring to it at all would leave it as an unresolved thread.
By answering these questions, I imagine it most likely functions as the conclusion of this emotional sequence, though I see room for a denouement strip ahead before the end of this storyline.
Unless we’re digging further into it, wouldn’t the end of book montage strip answer most of those questions? We skipped right past the blowjob and that was covered in the dialogue very easily.
Regardless of people’s opinions of it, this is a much larger thread with more questions, answers, and character events involved than the bj. It is therefore structurally appropriate to give it additional weight.
For me, it establishes a timeline, but, also for me, that timeline is only relevant if something narratively significant happens to one or both of them before end-of-storyline.
Like, if this was the end of their presence in the comic until the next day, it would be pointless to me; I personally don’t need a button put on the end of their lovemaking as I could easily assume they would finish eventually, and their enjoyment could be conveyed later.
But if something else happens, even if it’s just that they decide once is not enough, I’d find that to be fine (though I’d hope for something more significant than round 2), as at least that would reinforce their established horniness and possibly give credence to everyone’s belief (or subvert it) that Joyce would turn into the hyper sexual being they all assumed she’d be.
That said, I do believe that there will be more involving them before the storyline ends.
I for one an tired of people saying they’re tired of the negativity.
Let’s be fr maybe 10% of us are being vocally negative about this at this point, you can skip all the usual suspects like me & Dots containment threads
I’m really trying to tone down my overall negativity towards this arc I promise.
I’m glad people are enjoying it. Just kinda wish i could 🫠
It’s fine. I’ll suffer, we’ll move on, Doyce will hopefully become a more enjoyable relationship as the “honey moon” phase chapters end and we’ll all forget any of this ever happened
My Aroace ass is bored of this arch because I keep waiting for a earth shattering kaboom and I’m just getting smoochies and sad coochies and I’m boreddddd
I want someone to pull the fire alarm or something…
It just feels every time something interesting starts to happy joyce goes “oh wait my GIRLFRIEND” and we’re ripped away to watch these two be sickly sweet with each other.
You haven’t made “one or two” snippy posts, you’ve made over a dozen, all up and down the comments section. If this is you trying to tone it down then you need to either try harder or get used to people complaining about you.
You’ve made five fucking comments on this thread alone. You can’t pretend to support the idea of a containment thread and then leave negative comments on a thread complaining about negativity.
Listen, the only reason I’ve engaged with you up to this point is because you seem less delusional than other anti-Joyce/Dorothy commenters, but you have no right to complain about people who are sick about the constant anti-Doyce whining. Anything you say can also be applied to you. Just telling people to ignore your comments is horseshit.
No, to be fair I engaged them in conversation, that’s my fault but that’s cuz despite me not caring for the negativity I actually found Jay fun to talk to and wanted to continue to do so.
No. SO MANY of the fucking posts here are YOU. You are unavoidable. You show up every day to shit on the comic and we’re all supposed to be nice to you or ignore you. No matter how shitty and insufferable you are, nobody else gets to say shit to you.
massive agree, it would actually be lovely if i could open my favorite webcomic again and see fans of it talking about the story instead of haters being mad at the story progressing every day u_u
maybe one day people will get tired of toxic fandom drama and just start liking stories again…
I think that people are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not. And I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
This seems like as good a time and place as any to bring up my personal Wild Theory of late:
We’ve known for a while now that Joyce is very autobiographical.
And now I’ve come to think that Dorothy is Maggie’s stand-in.
This, right here, is the sapphic/gender-bent version of Willis’ RL relationship. (Not unlike Julia Grey and President Doris, one layer deeper.)
And that is why it is endgame, and why it will never get any real pushback or friction (of the bad kind). Drama may swirl around it, and leave collateral damage in its wake, but nothing will be allowed to end or derail it, or even be a significant obstacle. Tiny bumps, at most, in the road to Happily Ever After.
I think the extent to which Joyce is autobiographical is much lesser than people assume and this is pretty uncomfortable speculation about real people who actually exist
Willis puts parts of himself in all his characters. Joyce is his fundie homeschool childhood, Walky is his love of cartoons, Ethan is his Transformers obsession, Dina is his difficulty socializing with most people, etc.
I don’t think StClair is 100% wrong, tbh. Not that Joyrothy supposed to be a 1:1 match for anyone, but Joyce has strongly embraced the idea that Dorothy is meant to “save” her from her old culture and way of thinking, that Dorothy always knows what’s good for Joyce, and Joyce should always go along with it even if she’s unsure or afraid because it’s all for the best. It’s wish fulfillment, and the narrative never seems to push back on this or show harmful habits/beliefs Dorothy has that Joyce needs to help her unlearn. Apologies for playing armchair psychologist but it seems like the kind of story written by an exvangelical who never considered that secular liberal culture can also have problems.
Genuinely curious, but what kind of problems do you think “secular liberal culture” has? Secular culture I can see, there are some pretty bigoted atheists out there, but coupled with left leaning ideology seems fine to me? It’s just that up thread you said something about morality strictly coming from religion and I’m wondering if that’s part of what you think is wrong with secular liberal culture, in which case I’d have to strenuously disagree
Lots of infighting which leads to a failure to present a unified front on important events and issues (combo this with the inability to pick the lesser evil leading to the greater evil winning, now the greater evil is doing great evil because nobody will actually do anything), I’d personally argue the insistence on pacifism, until literally this year the inability to name anything without making it an easy target for the uninformed to be told is evil (which will happen anyways, but it really did feel like the left for a while was like “How will we name our TNR movement” “we’ll call it Kill Kittens because that’s what happens when you don’t TNR” and then was confused when people, even on their own side, did not grasp the full nuance of Killing Kittens.) The tendency to emphasize that someone needs to devote 100% of their emotional and mental bandwidth to every single thing in the world and to be 100% morally correct or else they’re not actually with the movement and are bad. Celebrating very small victories and immediately becoming complacent on them. Picking up and dropping causes seemingly on a whim with absolutely nothing resolved or even really improved because of all of the above combined.
I’ve been insulted by my liberal family members for trying to learn Spanish and learn about where my mother was born because she was raised in Texan culture after being adopted and taken from her birth country as a kid. There’s a certain expectation of performative virtue signaling in secular liberal culture that makes it exhausting to interact with if being the “perfect” liberal is not one of your priorities. And since nobody is gonna be the “perfect” liberal (see: infighting), it can be a very unpleasant space to be sometimes. Which is a big problem everywhere, but most liberals these days are basically experiencing care burnout and it immediately devolves into an argument even with close family, even when you’re on the same side but just splitting hairs (“any comprehensive solution for homelessness will have to require some expansion of 24/7 care facilities because some people cannot live alone and do not respond to medicine,” vs. “they live in our current version of society, we don’t know if that’s even actually a thing, Long term care facilities for mental health are cruel and everyone can probably live at home with just a daily social worker check in and be fine if society is fixed.”)
Basically, TL;DR, liberal social culture has problems too. I’m basically an advocate of just burning it all down at this point and putting 100% of my emotional investment into my community because I can at least effect change here.
I don’t have a problem with secular liberal culture, that was just an example. I don’t like the asymmetry between Joyce and Dorothy in general. Part of Joyce’s development is learning that her hometown community isn’t what she thought it was and that she has to leave if she wants to be herself. But Dorothy doesn’t get any of that, we’re expected to take for granted that she’s a perfect person with perfect parents from a perfect culture who doesn’t have to learn anything from Joyce. Joe x Joyce wasn’t like that. Joe pushed her a lot, but she pushed back, and they had to grow with each other.
I’m pretty sure we’ve seen a ton of stuff recently that’s been Dorothy struggling and even breaking down. Joyce still has her on a pedestal, but that’s not the comic itself. It might even be a setup for future character development within their relationship.
Dorothy’s biggest struggle so far is realizing she doesn’t want to be president anymore, but that didn’t come from Joyce, Dorothy decided that independently after considering the realities of the office are probably different from what she imagined. Joyce wasn’t pushing her in that direction and neither was anyone else; her friends all figure that she’s right about everything and will get everything she wants, even the ones who find her annoying like Jennifer. It’s a big difference from Joyce, who was always being criticized for her beliefs and eventually decided those criticisms were accurate.
i don’t think its healthy or useful to speculate about a real life relationship in this way. comments have already been getting too personal about the author, claiming the fandom’s biggest punching bags are mirrors of real life people is a very very easy way to make innocent people start catching strays.
I don’t mean this as an argument with your point, but rather an extension of your point to apply to other behavior in the comment section
I agree that it’s not super healthy to speculate (especially out loud) about real life people like that unless the author specifies and okays it (and it’s true that it wasn’t specified how many specifics of Joyce’s arc match Willis’s, so assuming they all match 1:1 would be weird).
On the other hand (and yet along those same lines), I also think it’s worth keeping in mind that any time the comment section goes off about “what a terrible person/behavior/pairing/plotline/etc”, they could be inadvertently making that comment about real life people, or parts of people (since authors often split themselves up into multiple different characters, and probably do the same with external sources of inspiration as well), or about events that really happened. In my opinion that can be equally unhealthy.
Assuming every single element of the comic was there purely by the author’s choice would be inherently incorrect in a semi-autobiographical work – therefore, assuming by default that the author “decided” a certain plot point (etc) would happen always carries the risk of invalidating their lived experience. Not claiming that the currently polarizing ship is an instance of such, because I don’t have any way of knowing (like most people here).
So while I dislike the specific speculation StClair did, I find value in their pointing out that it could be something like that, and I don’t know exactly know how I’d prefer it have been brought to light. Perhaps something more general: this thing people so dearly love saying they hate seeing could be something very important to the author or an important part of their story.
Going by Shortpacked, if anyone was initially designed to be similar to Maggie it’d be Amber since Maggie owned a hamster named Snickers just like Amber did, however Amber has clearly evolved to become her own character since then.
Why did Willis have to get rid of Mike and replace them with Booster?
Because Shortpacked and DoA are two different things (by the same creator), and what worked in one does not always work in the other.
Notably, I don’t believe Amber has ever expressed any interest in Joyce, which presents an obvious problem (as the latter, not Ethan, is the central character this time around).
(Then again, didn’t we get Amber claiming responsibility to Dina, just a few strips back, for pushing things in this direction? Maybe different characters can reflect different aspects. Or maybe my speculation is wrong. It’s been known to happen.)
I haven’t and wouldn’t assume any similarities as people between Maggie and Dorothy in the Joyce-and-Willis way, but I have been rather suspecting that how Joyce feels here is strongly related to how Willis feels about Maggie, and particularly how it all felt at the equivalent points in their relationships.
Dorothy doesn’t have to be Maggie-like to do that, so I don’t think Dorothy is necessarily like Maggie at all. Tho’ she could be, who knows? I just don’t think that’s necessary or even supportably implied.
This is probably a better way of saying what I was trying to, thank you. Not so much “Dorothy is just like Maggie”, more “the schmoopiness will not stop or be seriously challenged, and here’s why.” (because of what it represents, outside of the comic)
This comment section is nuts. Y’all don’t need to groan dramatically every time these two appear. Let us enjoy the nice yuri comics thank you very much.
Like it very much feels self reinforcing at this point. It started with some people being a little disappointed and then there was a frankly ludicrous push for branding these two as Evil for no goddamn reason whatsoever and now there’s a bunch of people lamenting every little thing? It’s nuts. The Internet was a mistake.
[Dramatic Groan]
[Like so dramatic, you don’t even know]
[probably the most dramatic groan you’ve heard in your entire life]
[Gift me the Wind-up Feo Ul]
Honestly i find it better lately that as soon as you noticed where the comment is going, just skip and ignore it, and kn the case of some people, just their username. It make a bit better.
You can actually reactivate her beginning animations if you clip through the rock around X.35 Y.77 Z.4 on the overworld. It’s interesting, because she basically reenacts everything she did in Book 1, aside from some pre-rendered things. Turns out her animations are all on one actor, which constantly checks your quest progress and plays the animation accordingly. Now, because of that, she does everything back-to-back, so she’ll actually end up in the wrong room at the end, because she isn’t properly walking between animations, she’s just acting up from where she was at the end of the previous one.
It’s always interesting to see the little quirks and shortcuts these PS1 games use.
Is it bad that there kinda less interesting now that there together? Like idk the appeal of this ship for me I think really was the yearning and the constant “almosts” and this thing they both want and need but feel like they can’t have and Dorothy’s angst over her (atleast in her mind) unrequited feelings, the kiss at the protest, as tone-deaf as it was, was the emotional highpoint of there story, and I feel like what we’ve seen since then with this pairing has been well….the thing you see after a highpoint?
I don’t agree in general, but I *do* think Star Wars Episode II would have been significantly better if all the scenes on Naboo had been removed and replaced with a single old-timey title card saying “And Then They Fell In Love”
I feel similarly. I’ve never been that invested in or opposed to this ship, but I was getting into the yearning of the buildup. Was definitely increasing my enjoyment of Dorothy. At the same time, I felt like it was at a point where to keep it going for an extended time wouldn’t really work either. I was hoping it’d still be enjoyable/interesting for a bit after the kiss, but at this point, I’ve found it disappointing.
Why do you think this is a good place to share judgement on the author’s storytelling choices? They didn’t check the box that says “this author wants critique and feedback”, as far as I can see. Why not discuss that on neutral ground where it doesn’t get pushed in front of the author’s eyes?
Why wouldn’t they post that in the comments section? Why would there even be a comments section if you couldn’t post your opinions on the story in them? This isn’t ao3.
First I should clarify, I don’t mean to single out Jon’s behavior as exceptionally bad or anything, but it’s part something I’m seeing a trend of in the comments (commenting on the author’s story decisions as opposed to commenting on the content of the story) and they made a comment that I felt made a good lead-in to discussion on it. Perhaps I was wrong and it wasn’t the best place to say it, but I can’t undo it now.
There are plenty of comments that can be made on comics that aren’t disagreements with the author’s storytelling style, which, while it may or may not develop over time, is apparently the way they currently want to tell their story. And it’s notable that many of the complaints I see about Willis’s storytelling style are features that have been around for a while – sudden scene changes (especially cliffhangers), plot events that disappoint or shock fans – there’s a reason their first and middle names are DAMN and YOU, after all.
I’m not an AO3 reader so I don’t know exactly what you mean by that. My statement about the feedback checkbox (which I’ve seen on a different literature site, don’t know if AO3 has one) was meant as a joke, though – this isn’t a place where authors commonly go seeking feedback from the public on how they could improve their writing, it’s Willis’s personal website where they publish their works that their fanhood comes to enjoy. There’s no onus on them to tell stories the “right” way or to appease everyone all the time (even member of the fanhood). People who like it can come read it.
What would I gain by telling them what I think they could have done better with regard to their storytelling style? They won’t be editting already posted pages, and if they did it should only be for actual mistakes they want to fix, not that people didn’t like it. They’re not going to change anything in the short term, with a year+ buffer. Heck, if they did make short term changes, there’s a non-zero chance they’d troll me by doing more of the thing I complained about. If they did want to make long-term changes and wanted my opinion on them, I wouldn’t give it by publicly complain about things I dislike every single time they happen (which is in ignorance of said buffer). I’d, I don’t know, maybe make abstract commentary in a separate medium where they go for the specific purpose of reading my opinion. Which I won’t and they won’t because I have no interest in advising them in this regard (nor expertise to do so), and I can only assume they (having likely never heard of me) have no interest in asking me to. I come here to read Willis’s story, not write it.
Because the comic exists and if it exists, it’ll be critiqued? This is such a weird complaint. You could expand this to basically everything that has ever been made. Why would you review a product, who told you they wanted to know that the handle was flimsy and not ergonomic? Why would you review a movie, the director wanted to spend too much time looking at cleavage, what does it matter to you if it negatively affected the core messaging? Why would you protest the mayor tearing up a sidewalk, nobody asked you for your opinion, the mayor thought it was an eye sore. Why would you tell the YouTuber that they should include a flashing lights warning? Why would you tell the twitch streamer their mic is out, you can see! That’s so obtrusive and rude, that’s surely what they have editors for. Nobody asked you.
Jon didn’t check a checkbox asking to be critiqued for feeling like there was a narrative misstep, but you sure felt like you needed to let them know anyways, what’s the point? What’s the point of anything? Just shut it down. That’s why YouTube doesn’t show dislikes or do star ratings anymore, nobody asked for that negativity.
Hello! First off — thank you for disagreeing in a non-hostile way. There’s precious little of that in here these days.
First – my comment started as defense against the “Bongo Eating Crackers” allegations. The original comment was implying that people just hate Doyce so much that they’ll hate any appearance no matter what. That’s not true for me – I’ve laughed at even recent Joyce/Dorothy strips, and even shared enjoying them in these comments! So I didn’t feel like it was a fair critique and wanted to say something.
Second— I honestly DON’T have a lot of other places to talk about the comic. The subreddit *sometimes* shares my views but is also a lot angrier on average than I am about this plot line. I only have one other IRL friend who cares about the strip at all — and she’s mostly a Doyce fan, so our talks on this plot line tend to peter out quickly because it’s not fun for either of us to disagree about it.
Third— I don’t have any delusions that my “expert critique” is going to change Willis’s mind. I just want to talk about the comic — the things I like, and don’t like, and wish were different. I believe that includes talking about the writing choices in the comic. Writing is part of my job so I can’t help but think in those terms.
The comic specifically, mind you. I’ve always taken great pains to not make claims or criticisms of Willis as a person or an author. I think that crosses a line. But there’s a way to be critical of a storyline (especially one you otherwise love, for instance Becky/Dina’s drama is absorbing me right now) without being a dick about it. Thats the needle I always try to thread.
Thanks for the response and I likewise appreciate your civility. Those are all valid points, I was typing a much more thorough response but I have to get some sleep and I’m stuck in an endless revision vortex at the moment so I just wanted to leave a quick reply before I log off.
To your first point, you’re right and not all JoDoroythyce dislikers have BECS about it. Same with criticizers of the comic in general – many are keeping it reasonable and limited. However some (as a group if not as individuals) seem to simply be in the habit of looking for things to complain about, to the point where it would be impossible to satisfy all their conflicting demands (for example, multiple plot tensions should immediately be resolved, in 4-7 panels per day). I worry that those commenters are rubbing off on the culture at large, and that worry is what motivated me to reply to your comment.
Your second point is absolutely fair – I have pre-emptively avoided the DoA subreddit, but my previous experience on the QC subreddit tells me it is not a valid (and especially not “neutral” as I called for) ground for discussion. I don’t know where else you would go to have good-faith discussions with fellow fans – I doubt tumblr is any better and twitsky would just be shouting into the void. I guess it bears asking if you’d be interested in such a place, though I can’t say I personally have the energy for managing new subreddits or websites or whatever.
On your third point, it’s understandable to respond that way. My brain habitually reads jokes and thinks “how could I phrase that better to maximize the readability and comedy”. This is probably either useful for developing my own skills or a huge waste of energy, but in any case I personally try to refrain from putting it where the author would see it if they didn’t ask – I probably haven’t always been perfect about that, admittedly.
I would say “about the author’s decisions” is a subset of “about the author”. There’s a whole discussion that could be had on that and whether this is an appropriate place for it (because surely some authors have different preferences than others about their comment sections), but IMO it too should be had elsewhere because it would contain some of the same “talking about the author in abstract in view of them” behavior I’m claiming is bad (and I’m realizing now that I did a bit of that in my previous comment. fail, unless I’m wrong and it’s not bad at all, which is possible), unless Willis has posted something about this somewhere.
In any case I agree that your comment didn’t really go over the line, but I felt it had a similar theme to some that did, and that added up to me saying what I wanted to say to the section as a whole as a reply to you.
I’m glad you bring up reddit because my experience on the QC sub is part of the inspiration for my paranoia about potentially worsening culture here. I believe I’m seeing here an increase in examples of toxic behaviors I saw there, many of which essentially boil down to having BECS about the “quality” of the comic. “when is he going to show this character again” “this behavior is out of character” “not as good as the good ol’ days” “he didn’t show enough/showed too much of this one scene” “no not another new character”. These were all from ongoing chatter that were there before it blossomed into the full-on hate-fueled circlejerk it was when I finally had the self-control to stop going there to make myself angry. Perhaps I’m over-sensitive to the warning signs, but the potential result warrants wariness, I believe.
Those behaviors are also NOT the only ones that worry me in this section. I also see the shipping culture getting so polarized it’s starting borderline fights and leading to toxicity even when the ship is not onscreen, people who post a “wrong” opinion either getting bullied out of the section or becoming a punching bag for memes, and judgements of characters rising to a level of being hateful. Some of these have been around to some extent but it seems to be increasing recently. My paranoia thinks it’s bad actors coming and spreading the toxicity to everyone else. Maybe it’s just the state of the world having everyone’s anxiety up. Maybe I’m being too sensitive and there isn’t really a change or even a problem.
All I know for sure is that I’ve been reading and loving this comic for years (I believe over a decade), including the comments much of the time, and recently finally got comfortable enough to want to join in the discussion, and now it’s starting to feel more like a place I don’t want to participate in any more, which saddens me.
Maybe it’s being intentionally left as it is because people were arguing about whether Joyce has or has not broken up with Joe, and clarifying it would deprive the comment section of one of its sources of needless drama.
Willis’s characters always do. And Willis themself wears glasses. So. One assumes they just feel differently about glasses during sex than many commented.
That means that one day, Joyce too will be a 46-year-old woman turning her slashfics into a socially-conscious coming-of-age cartoon starring two 18-year-old freshman boys, fucking. Probably named something witty, like “Roomies 2: Electric Boogaloo.”
Though as Joyce ages like six months every ten years, it means we’ll have to wait until the year 2585 to get to this point in the story.
…
Pretty sure that Julia Gray and Doris Keener would be in there, too. Probably roommates. Julia’s probably have several love interests, and Doris would have a hat and play viola.
The neat thing about it happening in 2585, is that Joyce’s version of Carla can just be a talking sentient car which had their mind transferred into the body of an android resembling a 20-year-old girl and no one would bat an eye because nothing of that sounded out of the ordinary.
I’m sure it’d ruffle some feathers, but mostly from robophobes who have an issue with sentient cars living in the dorms instead of the garage. Those people can go to hell.
I don’t really know what there is to be mad about, anyway. Nothing happened that we didn’t expect… oh wait, they kept their glasses on. Yes, that’s a reason to be furious. So irresponsible!
Mostly the juxtaposition with the Becky/Dina drama, but also a lot of people just hate whenever Joyce & Dorothy show up, and especially if they’re happy.
Joyce and Dorothy the majority of the time in this comic were hated even BEFORE they got together
and like, VALID.
like even Carla stated, just about every character is basically their own unique flavor of asshole
I honestly don’t think Willis intended either of them to be THAT like-able as people from the very get go?
Joyce is a white ex-fundie piece of shit, Dorothy is a goodie-two-shoes Lisa Simpson with over-achiever syndrome who can’t help but make other people into projects (and even admitted it herself), both of them have many lessons to be learning the hard way by being stupid over and over again
and the fact that they be together now, that was hinted at across in the entire comic?
I actually think it’s worth celebrating, but not for the reasons one may initially think
TL;DR it’s just as Yoto said
by dating each other, they have finally quarantined themselves from dating anyone else! 😂🥳👏🏽
And with that last hesitant but shuddering climax, Dorothy’s mind turns to the front page photo of earlier, realizing that she just lost the Christian Nationalist vote in her on-and-off quest to be president.
Reevaluating her post-coital career options, Dorothy drops out of college and takes a job in Elkhart IN, repairing trombones for the Selmer company.
She’s a woman who would be running on a liberal ticket. She was never counting on the Christian Nationalist vote. They’d vote in a chimpanzee with a red tie if the chimp’s handlers said he was tough on immigration and was going to “drain the swamp.”
Enjoy this while you can, girls… because there will be unintended consequences, as there is with EVERY Dorothy plan. You two might have your “happily ever after” but your buddies sure as Hell aren’t…
Well then I suggest becoming a Willis character, they’ll pair you up with another Willis character and your couple banter will be fully Willis-on-Willis.
It’s funny because of the egregious theft and the insult to real artists everywhere that is feeding *someone else’s work* into the environmentally disastrous plagiarism slop machine.
Sorry, Monkey Paw Finger Curl, the only way any of us are getting isekai’d out of this timeline, is if they feed us into a computer simulation to train AI. You’ll just spend eternity teaching a robot how to maintain a microprocessor factory.
LLMs are dumb as hell, so I’d be convincing that motherfucker we needed to create genetically engineered 1980s anime catgirls. The ones with the wild hair and the conga-y faces and the fangs.
So as a tech dork with some machine learning experience, I’m skeptical that insta is talking about something that matters a whole lot (I would expect most LLM crawlers are not using the public google front-end but rather some kind of programmatic API to access search results — and honestly, I’m skeptical that LLMs ever “read the long tail of the internet” by going to google in the first place.)
That said, the AI bubble is going to pop, but that’s largely because every single use of an LLM loses money for the company whose LLM it is, and if they wanted to change that they’d have to charge something like 10x as much minimum, because costs are not actually dropping meaningfully compared to the explosion of additional resources that newer models use to try to achieve something even approximating accuracy.
Granted, it’s liable to take about 10% of the stock market with it when it does, because of how much bank NVidia has made on selling GPUs to do it, and especially because NVidia is now effectively paying datacenters to buy more GPUs to goose revenue numbers. Ed Zitron does some good analysis of the economics, but I would be surprised if the bubble lasts much longer than 1-2 years.
We are already starting to see controlled research that shows that LLM use slows developers down when measured objectively, and OpenAI themselves have a research paper out that boils down to “no LLM will ever be able to not hallucinate, because the technology doesn’t allow for the concept of truth/falsehood valuations”.
Just to emphasize this from an economic perspective: data centers are the main driver of US economic growth this year. Without that, the economy would have shrunk. And, as you say, that’s a bubble that can’t last more than another couple years.
Batten down, it’s going to be a rough ride.
Big Z – Economics aside, we are getting into my area. RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generative AI) does in fact pull relevant search results in and puts them in the context window. Perplexity pulls them in from sites it considers reliable, for example.
It’s true that all the big LLMs are money losers, but the future costs are definitely going down and the current losses are properly understood as research costs. As of right now, for between $4,000 and $5,000 you should be able to be put on a wait list for delivery this year for a PC with an NVIDIA competitor chip that will run a 2 billion parameter model at a useful speed. It uses a special fast memory accessible by either the CPU or GPU. It’s not set up for data centers, but you can link two of them with a thick cable for more computing power and distributed speed. Moore’s law is not dead yet for some value of Moore’s law.
With individual panels from a web cartoon and the right prompting and a bit of editing of results, Googles Veo 3 model should definitely be able to a create a video from them, though for best results you should probably use one of the better voice to text services and one of the models that syncs mouth movements to speech.
Fun, all of my own ML experience came from the mid-late 2010s, which is part of why I’m skeptical — being intentionally vague, I was on a contract between “real” jobs where I babysat (I’m in engineering management lately, having got there from being an IT engineer generally) the implementation of a ML model that saved one of my larger customers something in the high nine figures yearly on a less than $1mil+6mo training budget and something like $500k/yr in run costs.
So you can understand why I think LLMs and generative AI in general are a step backwards, at least economically.
I’m not surprised that dedicated LLM search engines are using search results, but I also do suspect they’re pulling them via the google API rather than naively scraping the front page. 😀
Anyway, aside from that bit, I have a lot of specific experience on GPU-based supercomputing and infrastructure builds, and it’s less that Moore’s Law is dead and more that as far as I can tell, on a cost basis it’s being swamped by the power/cooling demands of higher transistor density. I was an executive at a small datacenter company after my ML stint up until very recently, and I’ve been fighting off recruiters wanting me to go back specifically because I’m convinced the datacenter economics alone are going to pop the bubble. As in, OpenAI has made some promises regarding datacenter buildout timelines such that if they can meet them, they should just be a datacenter company because they’re >3x faster than anything I’ve ever seen in the industry.
Somewhat obviously given my main non-cost and non-ethical concerns, I find it reasonable that shorter artistic works are going to be at the sweet spot for generative AI for the foreseeable — I don’t see how we get the kind of longer contexts and accuracy that would make a viable product for the price without fundamentally changing the model.
(painful — trying to talk about one’s specific experience without accidentally doxxing oneself by being too specific about a rather weird career journey 😀 )
As others have pointed out, AI is shaping up as just another Tech Bubble, which is why I’m reluctant to spend money to buy a compatible computer for it.
So weird to see people griping about the coverage the two central characters of this comic are getting. I had to sit through months of walky and Lucy, and walky and amber back when I didn’t care about them, but I survived long enough to see story advancement with characters I liked again. Probably because I didn’t make griping to a community of like minds and slap fighting with opposing minds my driving form of personal entertainment.
In fairness, here I am now, making griping about people griping my driving form of personal entertainment.
True, during the whole Walky/Lucy thing I was waiting for the inevitable collapse – she went after him because she thought he was hot, he went along with it because he’s never stood up for himself even once which is why he was still his mom’s favorite. That’s not a good foundation for a relationship.
(Yet somehow I managed, through that entire arc, not to haunt the comments section telling everyone who liked it how wrong they were. Wish more folks could manage that trick…)
Yes, really. When we get characters I’m not interested in taking center stage, I mostly keep my mouth shut. Seems the polite thing to do for the fans of those characters and for the writer.
I would genuinely be so much less disheartened by the misery comments if they DIDN’T keep going out of their way to stomp on people who say they like what’s happening, or like Joyce or Dorothy in general.
Look, I don’t know where either of there two are, optically, but personally I’m so blind that if I take off my glasses during sex I’m going to have a halfway decent chance of getting lost and licking someone’s armpit.
Sometimes leaving glasses on is just a matter of actually being able to see what the fuck you’re doing.
It does seem like some folks have just completely forgotten that not everyone’s prescription is the same.
I think Joyce can probably see okay without them, especially up close, but Dorothy? We have no way of knowing, we’ve never seen her take them off except to sleep.
Joyce has actually taken off her glasses with Walky.
I don’t know if it was every time, but I very distinctly remember her asking where her glasses were when she suddenly felt inspired to do something during her post nut clarity.
Personally, it’s extra rough because there’s nothing but “cute” to latch on to here. So if the ship isn’t endearing to me, there’s nothing else for me to care about.
For comparison, I never really liked Ruth & Billie, but they had enough going on in their dynamic that there was always something I could follow along with, drama-wise.
If this ship had more factors like that — Joyce’s various neuroses, for instance, or Dorothy’s control-freak instincts, that would add some flavor for me. Cute in the absence of other flavors only works if you like the pairing, and so I find the exclusively-cute strips boring to read.
No shade to ppl who are enjoying it! Just wanted to give an earnest answer to your question.
Addition: Joyce trying to break up with Joe and giving him a guilt/appreciation/lust blowjob instead was a great moment. I was mad about it at the time because it increased the dishonesty factor, but it was also remarkably on-brand and interesting to read.
Based on my ( very distant) memories, these two running off to do the deed and worrying about the consequences later is very realistic. Them running around to make announcements, get permission and settling their future would have been unrealistic even for people more mature than these goobers.
Okay, but obviously, the story would be better if everybody acted like they were 40 years old, and employed constant therapy-speak while being entirely open and honest about their feelings, which they have a perfect understanding of, due to their years of experience living as their authentic selves, in a safe environment. That would make for a much better comic, because there’d be no dramatic stakes, and nobody would ever have a bad emotion!
(Look I’m just glad to see one other person who is willing to let the teenagers act like teenagers)
Sometimes I do think the problem is that actual teenagers are kind of insufferable or “cringe” to be around unless you are one (and sometimes even then).
I want every strip from now on to be about them making out just to spite half the commenters (and because they’re cool and they should love each other)
Dorothy and Joyce are by far the cutest and most adorable couple in this comic’s entire history. I love them so much. I hope Becky and Dina manage to resole their issues though, because they are the second cutest and most adorable couple and I want them to stay together.
Becky and Dina take second only because of how obnoxious Becky could be about it sometimes (although I have to admit, snagging Dina as a girlfriend might have made me a little obnoxious at that age too). And I also strongly hope that they resolve this issue; I think that Dina knows enough human psychology that if she thinks past her own hurt for a while, she’ll come to the realization that Becky was just expressing her self-loathing and pushing everyone away in anticipation that they’d eventually do that to her (depression is like that sometimes, and Becky’s is completely untreated, which ain’t good for anybody).
I don’t think Dina knows much at all about human psychology. She is a highly intelligent person who does not naturally understand emotional cues and has to depend on learned rules to understand other’s behavior.
That’s why so many of us try to learn human psychology – we’re not born with this ability to convince ourselves that we just “understand” other people.
everyone who’s mentioning it seems to be asking why they kept their glasses on for this
I’m personally more interested in how they kept their glasses on. if I didn’t take mine off myself, they’d at least come off on their own in the rolling mess of it all
If your glasses are too loose to stay on by themselves, there are these little attachable elastic bands that slide on and hold them in place. Most department store places that sell glasses should have them.
Do people actually wear their glasses during sex? Like as a glasses wearer it seems either inconvenient, uncomfortable, or like a good way to break your glasses but as a virgin, my knowledge on that sorta topic is limited
The lenses do not break easily and modern frames can be fairly durable. If your approach to sex involves banging your head against the bed post or indulging in weight-bearing gymnastics involving your head, then your mileage may vary.
I love how there’s an absolute dichotomy between “lol A+ scene transition” and “NOOOO WORST SCENE TRANSITION.” I think it was kind of expected, personally.
Yeah, the combination of this couple being especially polarizing in a vacuum PLUS the whole “cheating story!/coming-out story!” bugs and daffy thing PLUS the fact that there’s been a lot more DoJo adorableness per unit time than a lot of previous couples makes for a lot of heavily polarized opinions.
Even if I suspect that 90% of the opinions expressed here are significantly more extreme than the commenter in question actually feels, on both sides of the line.
I mean, I literally don’t believe that people who are reading a college dramedy ACTUALLY want the comic to turn into “sunshine and roses for DoJo forever” any more than I believe any of the people who are gonna quit reading any day now until DoJo goes away.
I suspect the average opinion is much closer to either “Meh, these dorks are boring, get on with the other story threads already” or “so happy my ship sailed, nice to see them every couple of strips”.
“Learn to say yes to each other,” this is clearly a reference to am earlier comic but for the life of me I cannot remember, and I do not know how to search for words in a comic strips’ dialogue… Anyone remember.
It’s dawning on me that having a story arc centered around a mildly problematic lesbian relationship is a great way to gauge how misogynistic your audience is, suddenly both women involved are simultaneously evil cheaters and also the most boring and stale members of the whole cast
Like nevermind every story arc they’ve experienced before this, they’re just soooo boring, how dare the central characters of this arc be onscreen for an entire *gets out calculator* 61% of it so far, the author is letting them get off way too easy, sure the fallout from the kiss has visibly negatively impacted several of their closest relationships but they’re allowed to have consensual sex with each other instead of being punished for their fornication, how dare they >:(
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tonal whiplash?!?!??!!
“NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!”
DAMN. YOU. WILLIS.
OH COME THE HELL ON
Can these two please like go for another round so we can get back to the interesting stuff
Right? I was *just* starting to get interested again
I dunno what you’re on about I am a a PLENTY interested :3
I was interested.
More interested
Verry interested.
Then not interested.
Then interested mostly in wiping up residue.
I get that reference, but I think the last line should be “Then suddenly I lost interest”.
Its possible the thing I referenced was already a bestardized reference.
If I remember right, it was an authors note in Oglaf.
Moooooood
We apparently can’t go more than 4 pages without watching them make out. The more the comic tries to sell me on their relationship, the less interesting I find it, to the extent that this page actually made me roll my eyes. The conflict with Becky and Dina was interesting! It was exciting and emotional! This isn’t.
We’re nearly to the end of the storyline so like I was expecting a cut back to them, but we really can’t go a week without a reminder that yeah, Joyce and Dorothy are fucking now?
I wonder what Danny’s up to.
I wonder what fucking pizza cat is up to.
Hell, I’d take a week-long Faz story arc at this point
I understand the sentiment, but I bet you’d regret it by day 3. I bet we would all regret it by day 3…
It depends! …Would Faz have charts on *why* I would regret it? That could extend my regret cutoff by at least a day or so
Yeah, I don’t think you’d like it very much.
After all, knowing Faz, we could literally *right now* be in a weeklong Faz story arc. We won’t know until later, when Joyce and Dorothy head out to grab dinner, and Faz steps out of the closet and marvels that his first college sexual encounter was a threesome, and how the ladies can’t get enough of him.
See, this would make this arc interesting again, so it’s now my headcannon; any time two characters have a sexual encounter I don’t care about, Faz is observing from inside the closet. If the scene happens someplace there is no closet, then he brings one, and sets it up just off-frame.
*cue scene with giant cardboard box with “NOT Faz’s closet” written in sharpie during vigorous make-out session*
Faz: “Faz is now also participating”
Its “blowjob cat”, FWI.
We can’t go more than 4 pages without a scene change lately.
I’m feeling that maybe we’ve switched back to Joyce and Dots so that Dinah can bust in suddenly and have a go at them for upsetting her girlfriend.
If that happens in the next couple of strips, I called it.
~A Joyothy shipper.
Yes, you will have.
So she’s going to yell at Joyce for not seducing her girlfriend? That’ll be weird.
No, but she might berate them for being careless enough that Becky found out about their relationship by seeing them playing tonsil hockey. I mean it wasn’t deliberate, but it sure was careless.
Carelessly kissing in a room with a closed door having no way of knowing Becky would be waiting in the dark for them.
That part is not their fault. Bragging about it right after Becky asked “how long”, and then again to Hank when Becky was there, that’s on them, though.
yeah, not loving that this is how I’ve been feeling when the main character shows up in the comic these days.
At this point I’m reading Dumbing of Age to see what’s happening with every character who’s not Joyce and Dorothy.
Oh, they went many rounds already.
I dunno, watching the crazies have mental breakdowns in the comments is plenty hilarious.
Also true.
Pretty much.
I’m actually laughing. Not because I want to see more Joyce and Dorothy, but because people were taking a breath of air with the “Slipshine Quarentine” and they got literally 48 hours before Willis had to go back to this nonsense.
This is what the comic is about now. Best get used to it.
They seem to have done so several times already.
🏅 here’s your medal for making the most obvious joke possible here
but the whitebread, Dot!
Don’t trust tragic sequence of comic strips.
yeah, Dotty is easier
Wonderful juxtaposition lol
Yeah it did kinda feel like we were in “hard cut to another scene” territory, didn’t it
🤝 it did. I hoped there was more to come, but it v much did.
Kind of makes sense. Becky and Dina are not in the same room/location any more so unless we want to see one of them moping by themselves, no point staying with either of them
I mean, I was expecting to see one or both of them react to what just happened.
Maybe some silent tears or a clenched fist.
An over the shoulder look of heartbreak and/or disappointment.
We now return to our scheduled program.
: Faz!
“we have joyce x dorothy”
“what did it cost?”
“everything”
Talk about your Monkey’s Paw.
Not everything.
We’ll always have Mike. Oh, wait.
I mean, certain aspects of Roomies, It’s Walky, and Shortpacked are represented in DoA. It’s not entirely crazy.
Not like he’s going to be resurrected or anything. But I would not be shocked at all if, in a few years, there’s a cheerful, friendly blond fellow named Mick working at Galasso’s, who’s main vice is that he seems to live life constantly buzzed.
Worth it!
I’m beginning to suspect Willis enjoys tormenting the people in the comments
What gave it away?
And less be honest, we kinda deserve it.
Speak for yourself. I don’t deserve torment, I deserve $500 worth of Zero Sugar Monster Energy.
same, but with C4, monster energy just don’t do it for me as well :/
You should think more highly of yourself. Nobody deserves Zero Sugar Monster Energy.
I drink it constantly, on purpose. It tastes better than the regular kind.
Exactly, in the same way that a hammer through my hand would be ‘better’ than a chainsaw to the crotch.
the flavor is okay
C4 has a better variety of flavors IMO, with funny names like cherry bomb frost, frozen bombsicle, etc
as someone who’s been without proper ADHD meds in over a year, I swear it does wonders
Refresh my memory. Why have you been without proper meds for over a year?
Im convinced willis is is a sicko at this point and as a sicko he is a talented one.
On the other hand, he made Dina sad. Damn you, Willis!
It’s not the worst he’s done to her over the years..
Only just now?
WILLIS used trolling.
It’s super effective!
Serious response, Willis has said on Bluesky that, paraphrased, he just really likes drawing these two and that’s part of the reason there’s so much of them.
i feel something happened.
possibly in a slipshine
Yeah…Wait did Dorothy put on new shirt? It was white, but now it’s orange? I was expecting to come back from the fade to black and find them with less clothes not new ones. I’m not against it, just a bit confused.
they’re both still naked, Joyce’s bedding (and watch) are orange though
Oh ok. That makes sense. Thank you for clarifying that.
—as if a million souls suddenly cried out in ….
…. indignation and/or horniness, and a minute later …. felt quite empty.
They are adorable and I’m happy for them, but SOMEONE GO MAKE BECKY APOLOGIZE TO DINA RIGHT NOW!!1
They both have things to apologize for, and Becky moreso, but it’s gonna have to wait until she’s out of her doom spiral.
Genuine question, not looking to antagonize – what does Dinah owe an apology for?
Telling Becky she’s the problem while she’s in the middle of a mental health episode is not okay. Entirely possible that Dina didn’t even mean it to be as bad as it was in context, but it’s still a really shitty thing to say to someone in Becky’s headspace.
Ohhhh. Okay yes, I can see that timing being poor. Thanks for clarifying, makes sense fs.
I don’t think Dina knows Becky is doom spiralling though, Becky needs to tell her that, but I don’t think she will 🙁
Joyce. Honey.
Why did you wear your glasses during sex? That’s super uncomfortable, and you don’t really need clear eyesight in the dark.
also they clack together during makeouts
Is that a bug or feature.
Yes
As a very blind admittedly asexual sometimes you gotta deal with the fogging up…
Actually, Dotty too, now that I’m paying attention.
Like, my wife and I both wear glasses, but we both take them off before sexy times. They get in the way, clink together when you kiss, and you risk getting them dirty or scratched.
So did Dorothy… I guess that at least means their glasses are well-fitted to their heads? Mine would likely fall off, or I’d have to keep making sure they stay on, and then there are points where they’re in the way…
I literally cannot see my partner’s facial expressions without my glasses. They stay on until they actually get in the way.
I was literally about to say, “wait- they still have their glasses on?????”
I KNOW those glasses are smudgey as hell
Smudgey, sweaty, oily, and their frames’re probably stressed out right now.
I’m guessing it’s not so much a “why did they stay on?” thing and more of a “why would we delay the sexings for the two seconds it would take to remove them?” thing.
Glasses? Can take ’em or leave ’em. It’s the watches that bother me, they’re gonna get sweaty/other fluids on them, and leave an imprint on someone’s back. Yuck.
Yeah, the watch staying on is what I noticed! Not MY kink, but you know, I would not be surprised if Dorothy wants to see exactly how many seconds they spend on each “task”
It all goes into the spreadsheet. How can you improve performance unless you’re tracking it?
this isn’t even headcanon, this is exactly why she’s doing it. she’s also tracking her own heart rate, maybe
Sometimes you wanna be able to see everything! And for their first time together, that would make sense
….you don’t… have to have sex in the dark.
Given the titles of the next TWO story arcs I assume we’re not going to get any kind of resolution on the only people I really care about here for a long, long time.
That’s a spicy comic strip!
Truth in advertising, promotional material.
Pornmotional material.
I was referring to the alt text.
You may have been referring to the alt text as well.
great, this storyline has me invested in everyone’s reaction to the yuri more than the yuri itself
And that, too, is yuri.
And this too is Malsumis.
Maybe the real yuri were the friends we made along the way?
Joyce: “That in mind . . . would you be ok with me dating both you and Joe at the same time?”
Seriously! That conversation needs to happen ASAP!
Joyce doesn’t even know if she wants that herself. Let her figure out if she herself is interested in that kind of thing before she brings that up.
Then she should bring up that she hasn’t fully broken up with Joe at least. She never gave a clear answer, simply a “uh….gotta go!”
Except that she is broken up. In the current situation, do you feel that Joe or Joyce would kiss, or call eachtoher a cutesy nickname, or go on a date or do anything else a couple does. Joyce and Joe had a monoamorous relationship That has clearly ended. Joe proposed a polyamorous relationship. Joyce didn’t dismiss the idea, but said she’d come back to it. Joyce and Joe are currently not in a romantic relationship. A promise to consider a relationship at a later time, is not a relationship.
Joyce is currently only in a relationship with Dorothy. Nobody else.
I think this is a case where using the narrow definition of “relationship” results in some imprecision. She doesn’t have any explicit agreements with Dorothy other than the word “girlfriend”. She and Joe didn’t have a complete “we are broken up now” conversation.
She also has very important relationships with several of her friends! And I only bring this up because remembering that those too are relationships highlights what I’m talking about, about the fact that she clearly is still in relationship with Joe, even if we don’t expect them to have sex again without a conversation.
She informed Joe that they were broken up. Nothing more is needed to make a complete broken up now conversation. Why would anyone think otherwise?
Don’t you know that in order to breakup with someone you have to shout “WE ARE BROKEN UP!” Like Michael from The Office declaring bankruptcy?! Then you both have to sign the official breakup contract in your own blood and burn it as a sacrifice to the relationship gods.
In fact, she did not. She said that she had to break up with him because dating both of them at the same time would make her a “hussy”. Recall, though, that the same strip ended with her realizing that by her own definition, she was a hussy. Then she suddenly remembered the newspaper, and ran off.
Ya aint wrong.
But then, she neither took any clear stance on his counter-offer of an open relationship.
I´d say that insinuates she´s at least thinking about it.
There’s definitely a clear lack of closure between the two, and while closure may not be owed when ending a relationship, it’s definitely a respectful thing to do if you want to maintain any sort of relationship with the person afterwards (especially if cheating was involved for the breakup in the first place)
As well, I think the original post here was more about her not talking to Dorothy about the poly offer if she’s considering it, rather than about what’s owed to Joe.
I will also note that looking at Joe’s talk with Sarah, Joe himself definitely talks as if he’s currently in a state of ‘broken up with’.
“Listen, I know I hijacked your breakup to sadistically laugh in your boyfriends face, and preemptively denied you the same benefit. But…”
“Oh honey, he was just a stopgap; I think even he knew this round wouldn’t last. Pretty sure he wanted to get back with Amber anyway.”
Dorothy definitely doesn’t consider that.
She was not there for any of Walky and Amber’s recent interactions, so the only reason she would consider that is if Walky talked about his feelings.
And we all know that wasn’t happening, even offscreen, let alone feelings about another woman he’s has feelings for with the partner he was then banging and said partner being friends with said woman.
I mean, Dorothy would do that (and did, albeit in a roundabout and mostly unwitting way), but Walky wouldn’t; for one, he’d have to understand his feelings, and, two, he’s surprisingly more tactful than that.
Or she could just tell Joe no. On her own. If it’s a no go from her then no reason to even bring it up.
That much is true. If she’s not even considering it, there’s no need to bring it up.
I think there have been enough hints that she hasn’t ruled it out to keep that in mind though.
oops my keyboard slipped–
and made this transcript of the whole slipshine
Alright, I managed to make it through. Who sends me the check for reading Slipshine comic dialogue?
Thanks, NGPZ. I quite enjoyed that.
“Or Walky?”
Everyone’s talking about Joe but no one’s noticed that Dorothy’s been wanting her own polycule with Joyce and Walky for a long time.
lol actually never considered this before you said it
She suggested she join them once, just to take notes; not to mention he’s ready to move back to Amber.
I don’t think Walky has even thought of Amber since he broke up with Lucy, let alone gotten with Dorothy.
Yes, Walky and Dorothy just broke up like 5 hours ago, so he is available, but Amber definitely hasn’t crossed his mind (onscreen at least).
Amber, on the other hand, definitely wants to get back with Walky, at least according to Booster and some of her reactions to Walky x Dorothy, but I believe she is too caught up in her recent injury (and possibly the fallout from AG attacking cops in defense of protesters) to make a move.
Long story long, I don’t see Walky being ready to move on to anyone at the moment.
Walky is ready to move on to some McNuggets.
honestly that was longer and more romantic than i expected
Wow, lol reading smut transcriptions is uh, decidedly unsexy!
Thanks for the transcription! Some neat earnest character moments in there, which I know Willis always commits to in their Slipshines
Link is gone, so I assume Willis felt differently about this than about previous transcripts.
Not something to beat yourself up over, just a lesson learned. Next time ask first, I think.
awe well yeah I guess ya right
heck I don’t even know if Willis removed it or if it got flagged that many times
but even if he did, fair enough
all I wanted in the end was to share the dialogue parts to make them more accessible to people who don’t trust slipshine or don’t like porn, and even if that’s technically allowed here, doing it wholesale the way I did was kinda pushing it in retrospect, lesson learned XD
(also felt the need to lighten the mood a bit given Becky X Dina shippers just had their 9/11)
Seeing Joyce finally getting confident in intimacy gives me hope.
As someone with same background than her, I feel like it’s possible even to me.
that’s good ;-;
https://www.tumblr.com/itswalky/798158721159168000/when-joyce-says-it-was-always-going-to-be-you?source=share
Finally a strip where it fells appropriate to drop this link (and less likely to get me yelled at).
Atheistic Calvinism…. that’s a new one. Thanks for sharing that, it was insightful.
yeah it’s obvious
like clockwork this comic reminds us that “Christian Atheist” is NOT an oxymoron XD
That is an interesting concept. Would you mind expanding on it? This sounds like something you have put a lot of thought into, and I am curious as to your insights.
Christian atheists are, well, yeah like biomanzilla says up there,
they’re the kinda atheists who be like “I don’t believe in god, but the god I don’t believe in is Not Jesus”
as in, someone who, despite no longer believing in god, heaven, or anything supernatural, still operates under a set of ethics and schemas informed by either a Christian upbringing, or even just by growing up entrenched in the culture, customs, civics, traditions, language, etc of a country largely built by and for it’s (white) Christian majority.
regardless of creed, these institutions remain a dominant force on the schemas and moral intuition of the people of this country, super-fundie like Joyce or no, it has influence over people often in ways they don’t even REALIZE
“they’re the kinda atheists who be like “I don’t believe in god, but the god I don’t believe in is Not Jesus””
Slightly off-topic, but it reminds me of the (probably apocryphal) tale of Madeline Murray O’Hare delivering an address in Ireland during the Troubles. During the Q&A section, according to the tale, one man asked her, “Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?”
She replied, “I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in God.”
He said, “Aye, but is it the Catholic God or the Protestant God you don’t believe in?”
So, if I understand you, its the idea that while an individual may not believe in a god, they derive many of their beliefs from the culture shaped by it? For example, an aesthetic Viking might not believe in Valhalla but still think everyman should aspire to die while trying to mug the English?
And then there are title=”the Agnostics…” >
It’s a complex world out there.
Basically it’s another way for Christians to feel smug about atheists. “They think they don’t believe in our religion, but they get their morality from us anyway.” Like everything else Christians believe about atheists, it’s both supremely egotistical and wrong.
It matters what kind of god you don’t believe in.
Now we just need Atheistic Arminianism.
I’d think that Atheists who have trouble with the 3=1 math would just go for full metal Atheistic Arianism.
It is kind of amusing when athiests recreate old Christian heresies to not believe in.
It’s extremely not new. A lot of conservative culture in America and the UK comes straight from Calvinism.
*conservative secular culture
*and I say conservative, not right-wing, because nominal leftists can also unthinkingly absorb conservative principles, and Calvinism is pretty popular there too
yeah,
heck, it’s why (mostly white) liberals in the United States, despite being the MOST left leaning in our country in particular, actually tend to score fairly right of center in global politics at large
besides conservatives using “liberal” as a catch-all term to describe their enemies,
liberals in our country *present* as left-leaning because they want civil liberties; however, a majority of them believe in the system, and in capitalism, and will never be anti-establishment (especially if they’re white)
Happy to see that whole weird thing about “morality being irrational” got nuked.
Well if I take a few steps back and mess with the colour temperature of my monitor it *kinda* looks like Billie and Ruth…
Joyce, take it from me, this is a mistake.
You’re going to break your glasses, and superglue is actually not a very good adhesive for the side of your frames because you’re bound to twist it slightly putting them on and off, and it doesn’t love torque. Plus, you’ll glue your fingers together, as I did several times last night.
I hope she breaks her glasses right at the hinge so it’s really hard to set right
Wow. What has Joyce done to you!?!
I mean a couple days ago he hoped they would both get hit by a bus, this is nothing.
THAT WASNT SUPPOSED TO POOOOST 😭😭😭
I WAS BEING OVERLY DRAMATIC CAUSE NOTHING WAS POSTIIIIING 😭😭😭
Pff.
Genuinely: they’re fictional characters. It made me wince a little to read, but that’s not a form of harm you’re doing to anyone, Jay. We all make each other uncomfortable sometimes, discomfort is not in itself harm.
You’re okay.
At least you didn’t say it about the old white guy with fashy fundie leanings. That really upset a couple of people.
*groans* really, 4 pages?
Their dark union is finally complete! The fire has started, this friend group will BURN! HAHAHA!
take your glasses off you FUCKING ANIMALS
let dorothy have a kink, its not hurting anyone XD
It’s a Willis comic, the chances that those glasses were coming off was frankly less than zero
word.
It’s gonna hurt their glasses is what it’s gonna hurt! That shit’s expensive!
So’s the military, but we keep doing that.
… since when is taking off glasses for sex something that animals do?
(Or keeping glasses on, for that matter?)
Since people are animals, ever since Ben Franklin invented glasses.
Glasses existed for centuries before Ben Franklin. Franklin invented bifocals.
But if they’re not bifocals then can you REALLY call them glasses. You might as well be wearing a monocle.
I can’t believe we cut to Steve eating cereal.
Dang I wonder how Steve is doing these days. Does he still have the boat?
Last we checked, he still had the boat, and Cosette had broken up with him for buying the boat.
Last I recall him showing up in the comic he had hooked up with someone at Dora and Tai’s wedding in Sven’s old room
And possibly traumatizing the LEGO t-rex.
Which to me still feels like a shit way to ditch Cosette, cuz I liked her.
I have no idea if she’s still working at CoD.
I know you meant Coffee of Doom, but now I want to read The Comic of Doom.
Or maybe it wasn’t Coffee of Doom. It’s been a day.
Stay hydrated.
Can we get another negativity containment thread?
a thread for just negativity, to contain it, or a negativity-exluding thread?
Oh shit I forgot
Danm it Dot we pay you zero dollars to do ONE JOB D:< Now the negativity is everywhere! Think of the poor Janitor!
I’m still astounded that people pay any attention to containment attempts.
So well done, I guess.
When will it be time for the positivity containment thread?
Everybody’s gotta take their turn in the mines
Keptin! I canna hold if nae more! We have an imminent Negatively Core Breach!
Pretend I set up the hater containment thread further up the page. Kvetch here! Just like be cool about it. No homophobia or misogyny. Joyce and Dorothy are not the devil.
But what if I want them to be the devil?
Well you’ve got plenty of company in the comment section, that’s for sure
What if I want them to be the devil but it’s a kink thing, specifically?
Pretty sure you still have company in the comment section.
Don’t trust people turning other people into devils.
Maybe they’re cute devils.
They are the devils.
They just aren’t the devils for being gay, but for just being consistently shitty people to the people they claim to care about
Them being gay or women has nothing to do with them being consistently assholes
Yeah see this is what I mean
People are lucky I agree with your hater containment threads.
I have so much to say about this and not much of it is positive. What’s leaking out is a very small % of what I wanna say
Oh, you weren’t a fan of Joyce/Dorothy? We couldn’t tell.
I was, before it become the worst written relationship in the comic.
Yes, but people read the comic for the pictures.
Or so I understand.
honestly i think i read the comic because i started reading it, and it’s consistently fine
I read the comic because it satisfies my trash goblin needs and because I’m a masochist still waiting for the Science Fiction and/or Fantasy elements to kick back in.
It’s funny because the pairing is decent from a narrative point of view. It pushes Becky to some hard truths, it’s more Joe/Sarah friendship, you know, it might even be something interesting for Raidah.
But the execution isn’t working for me, them being ‘cute’ for each other every ten strips when other more interesting storylines are going on feels less cute and more like a delay tactic. Plus not a fan of what it feels like it’s done to Jocelyne’s character.
Why plot when joyce and dorothy kissing yknow.
Why develop characters when we can have 4 straight months of Doyce vomiting sweetness directly into our faces.
This is basically why I hated Lucy for most of her existence
What’s wrong with sweetness? Sweetness isn’t the same as Lucy being arrogant and self-centered and disguising it as sweetness.
Lucy becoming arrogant and self centered is what finally made her tolerable.
I couldn’t stand lucy from like page 1, I hate hyper positive ppl
That’s a “you” problem.
I disagree on the hating hyper positive people, golden retriever characters are wonderful for me, I just hate Lucy because she’s boring. I hated her when I read Shortpacked lol. I hate her here. If she were a seasoning, she’d be flour lol. I may dislike Doyce, but I’d rather the next 200 days of updates just be this page with different dialogue than ever have to reexperience Lucy/Walky.
But then again, she’s just a mix between the worst traits of Joyce and Billifer. The need for social climbing, the need to be religiously correct, and a weird mix of relentless possibly faux sweetness and absolute blind belief in what cool people tell her to believe. She is basically the least relatable member of the cast for me.
Careful. A Willis that gives us a sad Dina might be a Willis that gives us Jacob-Lucy-Walky as a poly relationship.
Cosigned.
what you say with sarcasm, I say with… “resignation” may be the best word.
yes, IMO, that is exactly what is going to happen.
That’s exactly whats BEEN happening
Remember how the last Danny/Sal plot line with her parents managed to thread the needle of heavier character stuff and sweet couple stuff? Why couldn’t we get that here?
Really not a fan of how Jocelyne has been utilized since her return. It doesn’t feel like her story is about her.
That’s because this isn’t her story. The title is “Not so smooth criminals” Joyce and Dorothy are the criminals. You don’t have to like them but this is a chapter about them and very specifically about them being criminals which at least implies they’re morally bad people or behaving badly. Very fitting for a chapter where they both breakup with their boyfriends and then fuck. We’re getting what’s advertised here.
A) I’m talking the entire narrative surrounding Jocelyne, not just this one storyline
B) G-d forbid a trans woman want a trans woman’s narrative to actually be about that trans woman and not the character development of her little cis-ter
Like, this is just one element of a larger issue I have with how trans women are portrayed in this strip
I feel we’re owed more Carla because of how Jocelynes been handled
Oh yeah that thread with carla and charlie has just been left hanging there for however long now
I take way more issue with how Carla is portrayed lmfao
The Carla/Charlie pairing hasn’t done a TON for me, because it just seems to have settled into place very quickly and is mostly just ‘people being cute together’. And there’s a place for cute, it’s just that their brand of cute hasn’t made me interested in the same vein of like, Danny/Sal cute.
I kove how Carla is handled but as I am a cis bi man and not a trans person I’ll bow to your expertise
@Dot what’s the matter with Carla? I don’t care much for her either but I’d like to hear a trans person’s take on it.
@Dot please do tell us your take on Carla. I’m curious. (Please no one assume whether I am cis or trans; i just wanna know Dot’s opinion)
I think your complaints on trans rep is valid I just also think the expectation s for this chapter are misplaced. Jocelyne’s story was basically a side mission here and at least for me I’d prefer she actually get a full story arc to herself over coming out in the same chapter Dorothy and Joyce fuck for the first time. Arguably Jocelyne’s part could’ve even been cut but I think the protest plotline and her being seen by Hank kinda made a inevitable outcome that needed to logically be addressed.
I think if Jocelyne hadn’t met Joe, I’d have been more on board with how she was handled. But the fact that she knew Joyce had a boyfriend and even met/teased him a bit before being seemingly gung-ho on the Joyce/Dorothy train feels like I missed something there and she was just reduced to be a in-universe supporter for the ship (because nobody else was going to be).
@Nono I didn’t realize that till now. That is kinda weird considering she met Joe and like two days later she’s totally supporting her sister cheating. I guess Jocey don’t give a fuck! That’s kind of an amusing character quirk if it stays consistent.
Re:Jocelyne
I think she already suspected Joyce and Dorothy had something going on even if they didn’t see it yet themselves. I interpreted her as deciding not to interfere in her sister’s love life because she had bigger things to focus on (Gaza protests).
Would you rather have no trans characters in this comic (or anything else ever,) unless they tell the one specific story of transhood you want to see? Trans people ain’t a monolith, more than one depiction can be authentic or at least respectful. I’ve known people who remind me of Carla, or of Jocelyne. I personally think it’s great that the trans women in this comic are two very different characters. They’re not going to represent everyone’s experiences, but we at least have acknowledgement that trans women are varied as people. This is miles beyond most media not representing them at all, having exactly one tragedy porn character, or transphobic villain shit.
Malaya is not like me, but parts of ’em are sort of aspirational (I’m team enbie.) I think having less realistic, for-fun kind of characters on occasion is valid too. We have enough misery in real life, right? Can we not enjoy seeing our kind of people winning in fiction?
Jocelyne (and to a lesser extent, Carla) is one of the most relatable trans characters in all of media to me, and I don’t think your personal dislike of those characters equates to the comic having some sort of problem with portraying us.
Not every character can be the main characters. I’ve wanted Malaya to show up more, but them not getting a massive spotlight arc where they drown out other characters doesn’t mean the comic has a problem with Filipino characters. Malaya being an asshole also doesn’t mean that.
Not everything needs to be “representation,” sometimes characters can just be people. People are flawed and complex and not always on camera for everything you want to see.
Oh, that‘s why she’s got such a bizarre name! Finally I get it!
“Bizarre” may not be the best adjective for a name that’s just not Anglo-English.
Yooooou might should have kept that reaction inside the skull…
Seriously Bizarre?
Megan, you are within your rights not to take an issue with the portrayal of trans women in this strip, and I am within my rights to take issue with it. With that said, I would kindly request that we please go back to mutually ignoring each other’s posts going forward. I do not find you to be a pleasant person to converse with.
if you baselessly accuse the nonbinary author of transphobic writing, after months of hypocritically complaining about supposedly made up accusations of bigotry, i am going to continue to explain why youre wrong. i dont care if you read it, but several cis people in these comments have openly stated they try and learn trans politics from you, and you do an incredibly bad job
I’ll ignore whatever comments you make that aren’t actively making my life as a queer woman worse.
Gonna have to second what Megan says here. This is an extremely rude thing to say, and she has every right to counter your own perspective’s on trans issues on the comics. I personally appreciate her doing so, since I think I have nearly always disagreed with you when it comes to trans issues as well, but don’t always have the bandwitdth to communicate as such.
Are you pretending that telling Dot that she’s “actively making my life as a queer woman worse” isn’t extremely rude?
I’ll go for a more nuanced kvetch, which is that I’m kind of bummed that this arc is what got me to finally start commenting on this comic. I’ve been reading it for about ten years now, ever since I found (and finished) Shortpacked. I jumped over to here, binged everything, loved it a lot, kept loving it a lot… And then this specific arc and how just about everything in it has been handled got me to actually read and join in on the comments.
It’s not just that I find this relationship boring to read, or that my favorite ship (Joe/Joyce) is falling by the wayside for it, or that the messy drama has nothing to do with the cheating, or that you’ve got a Free Palestine protest acting as the backdrop to a white cis lesbian love story, or the discomfort of a white girl mocking a Black boy about stealing his girlfriend… It’s all of the above, and the fact that I want to be able to say positive things about this comic because I really really enjoyed it up until this arc. I just hope it gets better so I can return to enjoying it and talk about that instead of posting in a hater containment thread.
I feel the moment this arc is complete Doyce will return to a reasonable level of face smashing (see every other relationship thats being handled perfectly in this series)
It’s just at the moment I’m so tired of these of two when there’s way more interesting shit going on
Well, if I am right – and if Willis wasn’t just trolling everyone with that pie graph of upcoming storylines – things will not go back to “normal”. This is the new normal, what the comic is going to (largely) be about from now on. Get used to it.
Honestly if they just act this fucking lovey dovey for the rest of the series I’ll probably drop it by the end of the year. Ikik “do it already you coward” but I really like DoA for a really long time and this is literally my first time truly not enjoying it and items just because these 2 are being treated so differently than any other couple in the series.
How is every relationship so far more interesting and making me care more than the “endgame” of the main character. I’m just tired lol.
Like fuck Ruth/Billy is dead and buried and I still find their interactions more enjoyable
Because, unlike those other relationships, this one appears to have reached its endpoint. It’s done. It is (as someone observed yesterday) no longer a story but a condition. Whether for the reason(s) I’ve suggested elsewhere on this page, or for others, doesn’t really matter. There will be no further significant developments.
GAME OVER, Good Ending, play again?
Yeah, it definitely feels like it rocketed way ahead of where it should be. Makes it hard to find anything to like about it even without factoring in the cheating, and it doesn’t feel right for either character to dive so deep into this so rapidly. Dorothy is too concerned about the well-being of others (no matter how badly she WANTS to be self-destructive) and Joyce was still so awkward about sex that she’d barely done anything sexual with her boyfriend despite the obvious extreme lust she felt for him. Plus the various issues involved with actually going the distance with a same-sex partner for the first time despite having believed themselves straight a matter of days or HOURS ago.
Ehh Joyce has already given Joe a handjob, got fingered, and then put her mouth on his penis.
It’s not full PIV sex but I wouldn’t say she’s inexperienced at this point.
And it took two weeks to get that far, with far fewer reasons to be so restrained. Doesn’t mean this can’t still happen, but the circumstances really don’t feel right for it to happen this way. This is what I’d expect if they’d had a drunken makeout while both single and this was the next day. Not a morning of finding out Amber was hurt bad enough to need medical care (and can’t properly get it), being outed to the entire campus, confessions to the boyfriends they have feelings for, everything with Becky, and Joyce’s family situation.
Two weeks for a virgin ex-fundie to escalate to blowjobs isn’t slow, it’s speed-running it.
And it’s very likely that having worked through some hangups about fingers and oral with Joe is what made it easier for her to dive right in with Dorothy. It’s just a variation on what she’s already done.
I do think though that’s it’s a bit odd we haven’t seen having any trouble acknowledging her attraction to women since she consciously realized it. It went from full on denial to complete acceptance without any apparent internal struggle. That doesn’t just apply to the physical aspects, but to all of it.
Yeah, that’s why I’d say this wouldn’t feel so weird if the circumstances were different.
This arc also is what got me to start commenting on this comic! Though, in my case it’s because I got frustrated with the negativity in the comments section and felt the need to express how much I love these two dorks and their adorable relationship. Do-Jo forever!
Glad to have you here! One of us!
honestly, if this arc is what introduced you to the comment section of this strip, i am so, so sorry
I will say at this point its gettting, like, comical, how much of a chokehold on the narrative they have, lol.
(look, I get it, this is The DoJo Storyline, but its genuinely funny the timing chosen for some of these cuts.)
I’ve seen way more people accusing (with no evidence whatsoever) those of us who don’t like this storyline of homophobia and misogyny than any actual homophobia and misogyny in the comments these days. Feels like some folks are desperate to assume anyone who has criticisms of Joyce and Dorothy must be a bigot, instead of us disliking them for the cheating and other shitty behavior towards other characters.
No, it’s simply that you come here three hours after the homophobic and misogynistic comments are made and deleted (along with all replies to them).
This, this right here, along with the cesspits that are the subreddit and the discord (so I hear, anyway).
It doesn’t make it any more fun for mere haters to catch strays accusing them of homophobia etc., but it is understandable that some people are on a hair trigger about it.
Fortunately, perhaps, the splash damage can mostly be ignored and there are only like three people who are actively accusing other commenters directly of those things, and frankly the rest of those folks’ takes are also crap so there’s no problem with ignoring them entirely.
I am going to use this opportunity to kvetch that some of yesterday’s comments really, really fucked me up. Sometimes this damn comments section has the same mental impact as doomscrolling and then sometimes I run into someone who has a Take so bad it’s literally triggering and I’m trying to figure out what I want to do about it.
Like, obviously “not read the comments section” and “not read the comic” are options. At the same time, I dunno. The things that genuinely fuck me up here are usually deeply ignorant or aggro takes on mental health and I don’t know if that’s something where “ignore this specific media I still mostly find pleasant” is really going to do much.
I’m sorry that that happened to you. Sometimes the comments section can be a bit much and I’ve found that sometimes I’ll just have to avoid the comments for a few days if things get too heated. Not even reading them. Or, I’ll just go the other direction and make comments that are pretty unserious to try and bring some levity.
Yeaaaah, yesterday triggered the hell out of me and I’ve been in a pretty okay-ish mental state recently. Lots of people inadvertently reinforcing my own self-loathing by agreeing with Becky’s or otherwise accidentally implying that people with self loathing are actively insulting their partners rather than living with a nightmarish delusion that can’t be erased and only suppressed at best, or that someone trying to break down in private and then being found and asked for reassurance having Not the Best Response is somehow equal to accidentally agreeing with someone they’re fundamentally unlovable. I replied a lot and then didn’t check the replies because I kept finding myself typing things about my own illness that I just don’t feel like it helps me to say out loud. I kind of assumed we were gonna hit midnight and the end of the storyline on today’s strip. Now I’m just worried for Becky.
Y’know, when I said yesterday that a smash cut to DoJo fuckin’ to really rub it in on the Becky/Dina storyline would be “admittedly nasty”, I didn’t expect that I was actually predicting what Willis would do.
Good job, Apollo
The only explanation I have for it is that Willis isn’t adjusting anything at all to account for the perceptions of the commentariat (which, to be clear, is fine), because I can’t imagine anything that could possibly throw more gasoline on the fires around here, y’know? (aside from maybe “smash cut to Joyce and JOE” or something equally improbable)
Careful now, brother, the dodgeball might loom
It couldn’t possibly happen TWICE in a ROW.
I was like half a second away from doing a reply from the future for that post to observe that you unwillingly called it when I remember that’s against the rules. Instead I’ll say it here: Apollo’s Dodgeball of Prophecy strikes again!
Boooooooo. *throws popcorn*
I would love to see next day on the way to Calc and either Sal or Jennifer tells Joyce to not walk with them or “you cant sit with us.” I’m tired of her and Dotty being Karma Houdinis.
How very high school. Will they shove them in a locker after that?
Joyce and Dorothy are basically in the process of doing high school stuff right now, because that’s how far behind their peers they were in this arena. The home-school girl and the compulsive over-achiever are obviously gonna be the two people who are doing the least social and emotional development in high school.
College freshmen acting like high schoolers? Especially Jennifer “I still keep my high school cheerleading uniform around” Billingsworth? Ridiculous.
In all seriousness, Sal wouldn’t give a single fuck, but Jennifer just might (out of concern for Walky, if nothing else).
I see we’re back to people catching strays from the class of commenter that is unable to distinguish “disagrees with me” from “actively bigoted against me”, too. Always a fun feature of this comment section.
Oh yeah that’s evergreen
I spent a fair bit of willpower NOT jumping on that particular conversation with both feet, let me tell you. (largely because it won’t do anything but make it worse)
Out of curiosity, has anyone paid for the Joyrothy slipshine? How is it, as far as pornographic comics go?
I would also like to know, for scientific reasons
Have not paid for it giving it a pre rating of 7.5/10 based on willis previous works.
His porn is usually p good
“I haven’t read it but I’m giving my opinion on it anyway”
Christians talkin’ about their Bible:
I mean in Jay’s defense, it was a good and valid opinion? They literally said, “it was probably pretty good, from my experience with other Slipshines.”
Like, it isn’t even a negative comment. Jay is very clearly attempting to provide the amount of useful insight they possess. Getting upset about that is just, I don’t know, pedantic?
Wish I could check but $20ish bucks is a lot for porn comics D:
I paid for it. It was not at all good. There’s a running theme in it that just seems like “Willis heard a single thing about girl-on-girl and ran with it”. If you just want porn of these two, it certainly is porn of these two. If you want good porn, there are other comics on slipshine that made it worth the sub for a month.
I do not ding the devil’s doorbell nearly enough to justify $20ish dollars a month on sexy comics D:
FWIW, you can download lots of sexy comics from there and keep them after you cancel.
That is perhaps my favorite euphemism for masturbation that I have ever heard. Kudos.
Thank you, I have others that are equally terrible
It’s only 20 for the first month, then it’s 8 or 9, but I subbed out of curiosity this time and am mostly just getting my 20 bucks worth because the other comics are pretty and well done.
honestly it’s good enough to be worth the $25 by itself IMO
(but yet again this is coming from somebody who wastes more money than that on pizza every month XD)
nice
It’s great, though I personally like it, like all Willis’ Slipshines, more for the character work than as something to get off to.
One thing you can say about Willis, the Slipshines are basically always worth the investment even if you don’t like the pairing, because the level of writing is consistent between here and there (i.e., 95% great).
I know people are upset about the tonal whiplash, and I get it… But also I needed a bit of a pallet cleanser from how tense it got with Becky and Dina yesterday.
I was tensing up as the page was loading because of yesterday. So yeah, I want more of what’s going on between Becky and Dina, but a breather strip feels kinda nice too.
Becky and Dina was the pallet cleanser 😭
People don’t get as much out of a pallet cleanser as you might think. I’ve sprayed down a few pallets myself working temp in a factory. It ain’t all that.
Here, have an internet.
Came here to say this, got ninja’d.
It’s not so much a breather strip I mind, but it’s that it has to be these two specifically. I was quite enjoying my break from DoJo! They’ve dominated the strip for months now and I feel like we could have checked in on some of the other characters who’ve gotten a spotlight this storyline, like Daisy, Raidah, Sarah, or Asma.
..Raidah and Sarah should bang
This is the comment that made me realize I’d been reading Raidah’s name wrong for YEARS!
I thought it was Rahdia…..WeLP
Heh, I came to that exact same realization a few months ago, specifically because I was trying not to misspell her name and I had to do a double take.
This isn’t a breather strip, this is structural. It functions to show non-Slipshine readers like myself that this event sequence has completed without trauma or other negative surprises, and that both participants were happy as a result. This answers several character questions, particularly about sexuality, including questions raised specifically in comments.
It’s rather economical in that way, honestly.
Answering all of those questions retroactively later in text would be weird at best, while not referring to it at all would leave it as an unresolved thread.
By answering these questions, I imagine it most likely functions as the conclusion of this emotional sequence, though I see room for a denouement strip ahead before the end of this storyline.
Unless we’re digging further into it, wouldn’t the end of book montage strip answer most of those questions? We skipped right past the blowjob and that was covered in the dialogue very easily.
Regardless of people’s opinions of it, this is a much larger thread with more questions, answers, and character events involved than the bj. It is therefore structurally appropriate to give it additional weight.
For me, it establishes a timeline, but, also for me, that timeline is only relevant if something narratively significant happens to one or both of them before end-of-storyline.
Like, if this was the end of their presence in the comic until the next day, it would be pointless to me; I personally don’t need a button put on the end of their lovemaking as I could easily assume they would finish eventually, and their enjoyment could be conveyed later.
But if something else happens, even if it’s just that they decide once is not enough, I’d find that to be fine (though I’d hope for something more significant than round 2), as at least that would reinforce their established horniness and possibly give credence to everyone’s belief (or subvert it) that Joyce would turn into the hyper sexual being they all assumed she’d be.
That said, I do believe that there will be more involving them before the storyline ends.
Breather Strip? Those things for holding your nose open?
I for one am tired of the negativity and I’m just happy that these two get a chance to be happy for a little while.
I for one an tired of people saying they’re tired of the negativity.
Let’s be fr maybe 10% of us are being vocally negative about this at this point, you can skip all the usual suspects like me & Dots containment threads
You ah literally just replied to their post about being tired of negativity with more negativity, so it’s clearly not being THAT contained lol.
I need to make one or two snippy posts.
I have a pretty noticeable pfp, I’m easy to avoid
That is fair, one to two snippy posts is a standard allotment of snark for most webcomics.
I’m really trying to tone down my overall negativity towards this arc I promise.
I’m glad people are enjoying it. Just kinda wish i could 🫠
It’s fine. I’ll suffer, we’ll move on, Doyce will hopefully become a more enjoyable relationship as the “honey moon” phase chapters end and we’ll all forget any of this ever happened
My Aroace ass is bored of this arch because I keep waiting for a earth shattering kaboom and I’m just getting smoochies and sad coochies and I’m boreddddd
I want someone to pull the fire alarm or something…
It just feels every time something interesting starts to happy joyce goes “oh wait my GIRLFRIEND” and we’re ripped away to watch these two be sickly sweet with each other.
It’s happened EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. This arc
You haven’t made “one or two” snippy posts, you’ve made over a dozen, all up and down the comments section. If this is you trying to tone it down then you need to either try harder or get used to people complaining about you.
Now I’m going to complain specifically to you more cause count this bongo outside of the containment thread I’ve made maybe 3 comments.
I hope I make this comic miserable for just you 🩵
You’ve made five fucking comments on this thread alone. You can’t pretend to support the idea of a containment thread and then leave negative comments on a thread complaining about negativity.
Listen, the only reason I’ve engaged with you up to this point is because you seem less delusional than other anti-Joyce/Dorothy commenters, but you have no right to complain about people who are sick about the constant anti-Doyce whining. Anything you say can also be applied to you. Just telling people to ignore your comments is horseshit.
No, to be fair I engaged them in conversation, that’s my fault but that’s cuz despite me not caring for the negativity I actually found Jay fun to talk to and wanted to continue to do so.
So um..Sorry???
Nice Hiita the Fire Charmer avatar, nerd.
Thank you!
(My autistic brain can’t tell if you’re being tongue-in-cheek or not).
I’ve had a nap since I said it, so I forget. Let’s assume it was genuine.
No. SO MANY of the fucking posts here are YOU. You are unavoidable. You show up every day to shit on the comic and we’re all supposed to be nice to you or ignore you. No matter how shitty and insufferable you are, nobody else gets to say shit to you.
Nuneary or Bununeary?
It’s honestly shocking, the audacity of it.
Dunno what you’re talking about; I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve said I’m tired of the negativity.
massive agree, it would actually be lovely if i could open my favorite webcomic again and see fans of it talking about the story instead of haters being mad at the story progressing every day u_u
maybe one day people will get tired of toxic fandom drama and just start liking stories again…
You should’ve been in the comments yesterday! I think it was a pretty interesting time.
I’ll happily like the story when it isn’t being sloppily rushed and assassinating the character of several characters.
Doyce could have been handled well, we’ve seen Willis do it for well over a decade. That’s why so many of us hate the current direction of the plot.
thats awesome, tell someone who cares
I think that people are sick and tired of being told that ordinary decent people are fed up with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not. And I’m sick and tired of being told that I am.
(MPFC)
Well, we seem to have reached a consensus there. Are there any other questions for the panel?
Agreed, it’s great to see them be happy and there’s waaaay too much negativity.
This seems like as good a time and place as any to bring up my personal Wild Theory of late:
We’ve known for a while now that Joyce is very autobiographical.
And now I’ve come to think that Dorothy is Maggie’s stand-in.
This, right here, is the sapphic/gender-bent version of Willis’ RL relationship. (Not unlike Julia Grey and President Doris, one layer deeper.)
And that is why it is endgame, and why it will never get any real pushback or friction (of the bad kind). Drama may swirl around it, and leave collateral damage in its wake, but nothing will be allowed to end or derail it, or even be a significant obstacle. Tiny bumps, at most, in the road to Happily Ever After.
I think that’s an incredibly sweet reading and if thats how this ends up by the end of this all I’ll probably end up loving it
I think the extent to which Joyce is autobiographical is much lesser than people assume and this is pretty uncomfortable speculation about real people who actually exist
Willis puts parts of himself in all his characters. Joyce is his fundie homeschool childhood, Walky is his love of cartoons, Ethan is his Transformers obsession, Dina is his difficulty socializing with most people, etc.
Yup. People see “Joyce is autobiographical” and think it’s point by point when it’s really more broad strokes.
I don’t think StClair is 100% wrong, tbh. Not that Joyrothy supposed to be a 1:1 match for anyone, but Joyce has strongly embraced the idea that Dorothy is meant to “save” her from her old culture and way of thinking, that Dorothy always knows what’s good for Joyce, and Joyce should always go along with it even if she’s unsure or afraid because it’s all for the best. It’s wish fulfillment, and the narrative never seems to push back on this or show harmful habits/beliefs Dorothy has that Joyce needs to help her unlearn. Apologies for playing armchair psychologist but it seems like the kind of story written by an exvangelical who never considered that secular liberal culture can also have problems.
Genuinely curious, but what kind of problems do you think “secular liberal culture” has? Secular culture I can see, there are some pretty bigoted atheists out there, but coupled with left leaning ideology seems fine to me? It’s just that up thread you said something about morality strictly coming from religion and I’m wondering if that’s part of what you think is wrong with secular liberal culture, in which case I’d have to strenuously disagree
Lots of infighting which leads to a failure to present a unified front on important events and issues (combo this with the inability to pick the lesser evil leading to the greater evil winning, now the greater evil is doing great evil because nobody will actually do anything), I’d personally argue the insistence on pacifism, until literally this year the inability to name anything without making it an easy target for the uninformed to be told is evil (which will happen anyways, but it really did feel like the left for a while was like “How will we name our TNR movement” “we’ll call it Kill Kittens because that’s what happens when you don’t TNR” and then was confused when people, even on their own side, did not grasp the full nuance of Killing Kittens.) The tendency to emphasize that someone needs to devote 100% of their emotional and mental bandwidth to every single thing in the world and to be 100% morally correct or else they’re not actually with the movement and are bad. Celebrating very small victories and immediately becoming complacent on them. Picking up and dropping causes seemingly on a whim with absolutely nothing resolved or even really improved because of all of the above combined.
I’ve been insulted by my liberal family members for trying to learn Spanish and learn about where my mother was born because she was raised in Texan culture after being adopted and taken from her birth country as a kid. There’s a certain expectation of performative virtue signaling in secular liberal culture that makes it exhausting to interact with if being the “perfect” liberal is not one of your priorities. And since nobody is gonna be the “perfect” liberal (see: infighting), it can be a very unpleasant space to be sometimes. Which is a big problem everywhere, but most liberals these days are basically experiencing care burnout and it immediately devolves into an argument even with close family, even when you’re on the same side but just splitting hairs (“any comprehensive solution for homelessness will have to require some expansion of 24/7 care facilities because some people cannot live alone and do not respond to medicine,” vs. “they live in our current version of society, we don’t know if that’s even actually a thing, Long term care facilities for mental health are cruel and everyone can probably live at home with just a daily social worker check in and be fine if society is fixed.”)
Basically, TL;DR, liberal social culture has problems too. I’m basically an advocate of just burning it all down at this point and putting 100% of my emotional investment into my community because I can at least effect change here.
I don’t have a problem with secular liberal culture, that was just an example. I don’t like the asymmetry between Joyce and Dorothy in general. Part of Joyce’s development is learning that her hometown community isn’t what she thought it was and that she has to leave if she wants to be herself. But Dorothy doesn’t get any of that, we’re expected to take for granted that she’s a perfect person with perfect parents from a perfect culture who doesn’t have to learn anything from Joyce. Joe x Joyce wasn’t like that. Joe pushed her a lot, but she pushed back, and they had to grow with each other.
I’m pretty sure we’ve seen a ton of stuff recently that’s been Dorothy struggling and even breaking down. Joyce still has her on a pedestal, but that’s not the comic itself. It might even be a setup for future character development within their relationship.
Dorothy’s biggest struggle so far is realizing she doesn’t want to be president anymore, but that didn’t come from Joyce, Dorothy decided that independently after considering the realities of the office are probably different from what she imagined. Joyce wasn’t pushing her in that direction and neither was anyone else; her friends all figure that she’s right about everything and will get everything she wants, even the ones who find her annoying like Jennifer. It’s a big difference from Joyce, who was always being criticized for her beliefs and eventually decided those criticisms were accurate.
Dorothy turned down Yale for Joyce. We’ve seen signs of traumatic fears of failing and losing Joyce as she nearly did in the kidnapping.
i don’t think its healthy or useful to speculate about a real life relationship in this way. comments have already been getting too personal about the author, claiming the fandom’s biggest punching bags are mirrors of real life people is a very very easy way to make innocent people start catching strays.
I don’t mean this as an argument with your point, but rather an extension of your point to apply to other behavior in the comment section
I agree that it’s not super healthy to speculate (especially out loud) about real life people like that unless the author specifies and okays it (and it’s true that it wasn’t specified how many specifics of Joyce’s arc match Willis’s, so assuming they all match 1:1 would be weird).
On the other hand (and yet along those same lines), I also think it’s worth keeping in mind that any time the comment section goes off about “what a terrible person/behavior/pairing/plotline/etc”, they could be inadvertently making that comment about real life people, or parts of people (since authors often split themselves up into multiple different characters, and probably do the same with external sources of inspiration as well), or about events that really happened. In my opinion that can be equally unhealthy.
Assuming every single element of the comic was there purely by the author’s choice would be inherently incorrect in a semi-autobiographical work – therefore, assuming by default that the author “decided” a certain plot point (etc) would happen always carries the risk of invalidating their lived experience. Not claiming that the currently polarizing ship is an instance of such, because I don’t have any way of knowing (like most people here).
So while I dislike the specific speculation StClair did, I find value in their pointing out that it could be something like that, and I don’t know exactly know how I’d prefer it have been brought to light. Perhaps something more general: this thing people so dearly love saying they hate seeing could be something very important to the author or an important part of their story.
Going by Shortpacked, if anyone was initially designed to be similar to Maggie it’d be Amber since Maggie owned a hamster named Snickers just like Amber did, however Amber has clearly evolved to become her own character since then.
Yup.
That was then, this is now.
…Why would Dorothy be the ‘now’ version of Maggie as opposed to the actual character who was based off of her?
I mean, if we wanna keep at this line of thinking, who would be the Joe then? Sometimes a story is just a story.
It’s me, hi, I’m the Joeblem it’s me.
You just had to Joepen your big Joe didn’t you?
Why did Willis have to get rid of Mike and replace them with Booster?
Because Shortpacked and DoA are two different things (by the same creator), and what worked in one does not always work in the other.
Notably, I don’t believe Amber has ever expressed any interest in Joyce, which presents an obvious problem (as the latter, not Ethan, is the central character this time around).
Alright whatever then.
(Then again, didn’t we get Amber claiming responsibility to Dina, just a few strips back, for pushing things in this direction? Maybe different characters can reflect different aspects. Or maybe my speculation is wrong. It’s been known to happen.)
I haven’t and wouldn’t assume any similarities as people between Maggie and Dorothy in the Joyce-and-Willis way, but I have been rather suspecting that how Joyce feels here is strongly related to how Willis feels about Maggie, and particularly how it all felt at the equivalent points in their relationships.
Dorothy doesn’t have to be Maggie-like to do that, so I don’t think Dorothy is necessarily like Maggie at all. Tho’ she could be, who knows? I just don’t think that’s necessary or even supportably implied.
This is probably a better way of saying what I was trying to, thank you. Not so much “Dorothy is just like Maggie”, more “the schmoopiness will not stop or be seriously challenged, and here’s why.” (because of what it represents, outside of the comic)
I was really excited about all the drama this pairing could generate but it’s just not really hitting with me.
It also destroyed one of my favorite ships with Becky.
Mhmm looks like Becky is destroying her own ship actually…
they’re ain’t no more atheists on that sinking ship, that much is certain o3o
I expect it will generate quite a bit of drama.
I also expect that very little of it will land on, or stick to, these characters.
It was 12:50 AM, I just refreshed the page for the 15th time jn the last 10 minutes.
It was then that I realized I may be addicted to these comments
Cool! First person narration! I love it. *now waiting for a problematic blonde who needs help to walk into Jay’s office…*
This comment section is nuts. Y’all don’t need to groan dramatically every time these two appear. Let us enjoy the nice yuri comics thank you very much.
Like it very much feels self reinforcing at this point. It started with some people being a little disappointed and then there was a frankly ludicrous push for branding these two as Evil for no goddamn reason whatsoever and now there’s a bunch of people lamenting every little thing? It’s nuts. The Internet was a mistake.
I do actually, Willis personally literally surgically implanted a bomb in my stomach that will explode if I don’t.
I been reading this conic TOO DAMN LONG not to be bongoy about minor inconveniences in arcs I don’t like.
I identify as a critic, so challenging my criticism of the comic is invalidating my chosen identity! Checkmate, lesbians!
Yes I do.(Did i do that right?)
[Dramatic Groan]
[Like so dramatic, you don’t even know]
[probably the most dramatic groan you’ve heard in your entire life]
[Gift me the Wind-up Feo Ul]
Honestly i find it better lately that as soon as you noticed where the comment is going, just skip and ignore it, and kn the case of some people, just their username. It make a bit better.
God forbid people post their genuine reaction
How can I enjoy the Yuri comics when my favorite Yuri couple might be broken up?
Joyce and Dina should fuck. Then Dina can see what all the fuss is about.
Joyce, Dina, Ruth threesome?
Ruth can’t have sex in the same room as Joyce for legal reasons.
Then just Dina and Ruth will be fine
Through a doorway, with Dina in the middle. That way, they’re not in the same room. It’s the obvious solution.
The lighting is really dramatic and moody! Very well done.
Dina is currently unloaded in her default model state 3000ft below the rest of the strip waiting to be used again
You can actually reactivate her beginning animations if you clip through the rock around X.35 Y.77 Z.4 on the overworld. It’s interesting, because she basically reenacts everything she did in Book 1, aside from some pre-rendered things. Turns out her animations are all on one actor, which constantly checks your quest progress and plays the animation accordingly. Now, because of that, she does everything back-to-back, so she’ll actually end up in the wrong room at the end, because she isn’t properly walking between animations, she’s just acting up from where she was at the end of the previous one.
It’s always interesting to see the little quirks and shortcuts these PS1 games use.
yeah makes sense, given these devices had limited memory, coders had to do a lot of cache-ing and dumping wherever possible
Was going to make a Big O joke here but I feel sad for her waiting down there without even a butler/mechanic for company.
CAST IN THE NAME OF GOD YE NOT GUILTY
Is it bad that there kinda less interesting now that there together? Like idk the appeal of this ship for me I think really was the yearning and the constant “almosts” and this thing they both want and need but feel like they can’t have and Dorothy’s angst over her (atleast in her mind) unrequited feelings, the kiss at the protest, as tone-deaf as it was, was the emotional highpoint of there story, and I feel like what we’ve seen since then with this pairing has been well….the thing you see after a highpoint?
Not everyone can edge forever Bongo… lol
Monica and Chandler getting together ruined the dynamic of Friends. Yeah I said it.
I confess my sins, the only thing of Friend’s I’ve ever seen was the theme song-
if one grew up with it, it’s probably still possible to enjoy it at least somewhat…but, boy, it has not aged well.
The only stuff that has survived the 90s is the sci-fi.
Well, yeah, all fiction would be better without romances. DOWN WITH ALL THE SHIPS (not ironic in the slightest)
I don’t agree in general, but I *do* think Star Wars Episode II would have been significantly better if all the scenes on Naboo had been removed and replaced with a single old-timey title card saying “And Then They Fell In Love”
Haha that would be a fan cut worth watching!
I feel similarly. I’ve never been that invested in or opposed to this ship, but I was getting into the yearning of the buildup. Was definitely increasing my enjoyment of Dorothy. At the same time, I felt like it was at a point where to keep it going for an extended time wouldn’t really work either. I was hoping it’d still be enjoyable/interesting for a bit after the kiss, but at this point, I’ve found it disappointing.
Boy, the comment section today sure has a bad case of Bongo Eating Crackers Syndrome.
Hey today i learned a new idiom.
*nearly choked on my korean corndog* LMAO
I don’t hate them for being sappy and sweet.
I hate that the comic keeps cutting back to them being sappy and sweet.
It’s a storytelling choice, not a character judgement.
Why do you think this is a good place to share judgement on the author’s storytelling choices? They didn’t check the box that says “this author wants critique and feedback”, as far as I can see. Why not discuss that on neutral ground where it doesn’t get pushed in front of the author’s eyes?
Why wouldn’t they post that in the comments section? Why would there even be a comments section if you couldn’t post your opinions on the story in them? This isn’t ao3.
First I should clarify, I don’t mean to single out Jon’s behavior as exceptionally bad or anything, but it’s part something I’m seeing a trend of in the comments (commenting on the author’s story decisions as opposed to commenting on the content of the story) and they made a comment that I felt made a good lead-in to discussion on it. Perhaps I was wrong and it wasn’t the best place to say it, but I can’t undo it now.
There are plenty of comments that can be made on comics that aren’t disagreements with the author’s storytelling style, which, while it may or may not develop over time, is apparently the way they currently want to tell their story. And it’s notable that many of the complaints I see about Willis’s storytelling style are features that have been around for a while – sudden scene changes (especially cliffhangers), plot events that disappoint or shock fans – there’s a reason their first and middle names are DAMN and YOU, after all.
I’m not an AO3 reader so I don’t know exactly what you mean by that. My statement about the feedback checkbox (which I’ve seen on a different literature site, don’t know if AO3 has one) was meant as a joke, though – this isn’t a place where authors commonly go seeking feedback from the public on how they could improve their writing, it’s Willis’s personal website where they publish their works that their fanhood comes to enjoy. There’s no onus on them to tell stories the “right” way or to appease everyone all the time (even member of the fanhood). People who like it can come read it.
What would I gain by telling them what I think they could have done better with regard to their storytelling style? They won’t be editting already posted pages, and if they did it should only be for actual mistakes they want to fix, not that people didn’t like it. They’re not going to change anything in the short term, with a year+ buffer. Heck, if they did make short term changes, there’s a non-zero chance they’d troll me by doing more of the thing I complained about. If they did want to make long-term changes and wanted my opinion on them, I wouldn’t give it by publicly complain about things I dislike every single time they happen (which is in ignorance of said buffer). I’d, I don’t know, maybe make abstract commentary in a separate medium where they go for the specific purpose of reading my opinion. Which I won’t and they won’t because I have no interest in advising them in this regard (nor expertise to do so), and I can only assume they (having likely never heard of me) have no interest in asking me to. I come here to read Willis’s story, not write it.
Because the comic exists and if it exists, it’ll be critiqued? This is such a weird complaint. You could expand this to basically everything that has ever been made. Why would you review a product, who told you they wanted to know that the handle was flimsy and not ergonomic? Why would you review a movie, the director wanted to spend too much time looking at cleavage, what does it matter to you if it negatively affected the core messaging? Why would you protest the mayor tearing up a sidewalk, nobody asked you for your opinion, the mayor thought it was an eye sore. Why would you tell the YouTuber that they should include a flashing lights warning? Why would you tell the twitch streamer their mic is out, you can see! That’s so obtrusive and rude, that’s surely what they have editors for. Nobody asked you.
Jon didn’t check a checkbox asking to be critiqued for feeling like there was a narrative misstep, but you sure felt like you needed to let them know anyways, what’s the point? What’s the point of anything? Just shut it down. That’s why YouTube doesn’t show dislikes or do star ratings anymore, nobody asked for that negativity.
Hello! First off — thank you for disagreeing in a non-hostile way. There’s precious little of that in here these days.
First – my comment started as defense against the “Bongo Eating Crackers” allegations. The original comment was implying that people just hate Doyce so much that they’ll hate any appearance no matter what. That’s not true for me – I’ve laughed at even recent Joyce/Dorothy strips, and even shared enjoying them in these comments! So I didn’t feel like it was a fair critique and wanted to say something.
Second— I honestly DON’T have a lot of other places to talk about the comic. The subreddit *sometimes* shares my views but is also a lot angrier on average than I am about this plot line. I only have one other IRL friend who cares about the strip at all — and she’s mostly a Doyce fan, so our talks on this plot line tend to peter out quickly because it’s not fun for either of us to disagree about it.
Third— I don’t have any delusions that my “expert critique” is going to change Willis’s mind. I just want to talk about the comic — the things I like, and don’t like, and wish were different. I believe that includes talking about the writing choices in the comic. Writing is part of my job so I can’t help but think in those terms.
The comic specifically, mind you. I’ve always taken great pains to not make claims or criticisms of Willis as a person or an author. I think that crosses a line. But there’s a way to be critical of a storyline (especially one you otherwise love, for instance Becky/Dina’s drama is absorbing me right now) without being a dick about it. Thats the needle I always try to thread.
Thanks for the response and I likewise appreciate your civility. Those are all valid points, I was typing a much more thorough response but I have to get some sleep and I’m stuck in an endless revision vortex at the moment so I just wanted to leave a quick reply before I log off.
To your first point, you’re right and not all JoDoroythyce dislikers have BECS about it. Same with criticizers of the comic in general – many are keeping it reasonable and limited. However some (as a group if not as individuals) seem to simply be in the habit of looking for things to complain about, to the point where it would be impossible to satisfy all their conflicting demands (for example, multiple plot tensions should immediately be resolved, in 4-7 panels per day). I worry that those commenters are rubbing off on the culture at large, and that worry is what motivated me to reply to your comment.
Your second point is absolutely fair – I have pre-emptively avoided the DoA subreddit, but my previous experience on the QC subreddit tells me it is not a valid (and especially not “neutral” as I called for) ground for discussion. I don’t know where else you would go to have good-faith discussions with fellow fans – I doubt tumblr is any better and twitsky would just be shouting into the void. I guess it bears asking if you’d be interested in such a place, though I can’t say I personally have the energy for managing new subreddits or websites or whatever.
On your third point, it’s understandable to respond that way. My brain habitually reads jokes and thinks “how could I phrase that better to maximize the readability and comedy”. This is probably either useful for developing my own skills or a huge waste of energy, but in any case I personally try to refrain from putting it where the author would see it if they didn’t ask – I probably haven’t always been perfect about that, admittedly.
I would say “about the author’s decisions” is a subset of “about the author”. There’s a whole discussion that could be had on that and whether this is an appropriate place for it (because surely some authors have different preferences than others about their comment sections), but IMO it too should be had elsewhere because it would contain some of the same “talking about the author in abstract in view of them” behavior I’m claiming is bad (and I’m realizing now that I did a bit of that in my previous comment. fail, unless I’m wrong and it’s not bad at all, which is possible), unless Willis has posted something about this somewhere.
In any case I agree that your comment didn’t really go over the line, but I felt it had a similar theme to some that did, and that added up to me saying what I wanted to say to the section as a whole as a reply to you.
I’m glad you bring up reddit because my experience on the QC sub is part of the inspiration for my paranoia about potentially worsening culture here. I believe I’m seeing here an increase in examples of toxic behaviors I saw there, many of which essentially boil down to having BECS about the “quality” of the comic. “when is he going to show this character again” “this behavior is out of character” “not as good as the good ol’ days” “he didn’t show enough/showed too much of this one scene” “no not another new character”. These were all from ongoing chatter that were there before it blossomed into the full-on hate-fueled circlejerk it was when I finally had the self-control to stop going there to make myself angry. Perhaps I’m over-sensitive to the warning signs, but the potential result warrants wariness, I believe.
Those behaviors are also NOT the only ones that worry me in this section. I also see the shipping culture getting so polarized it’s starting borderline fights and leading to toxicity even when the ship is not onscreen, people who post a “wrong” opinion either getting bullied out of the section or becoming a punching bag for memes, and judgements of characters rising to a level of being hateful. Some of these have been around to some extent but it seems to be increasing recently. My paranoia thinks it’s bad actors coming and spreading the toxicity to everyone else. Maybe it’s just the state of the world having everyone’s anxiety up. Maybe I’m being too sensitive and there isn’t really a change or even a problem.
All I know for sure is that I’ve been reading and loving this comic for years (I believe over a decade), including the comments much of the time, and recently finally got comfortable enough to want to join in the discussion, and now it’s starting to feel more like a place I don’t want to participate in any more, which saddens me.
meant this as a reply to Jon, think I clicked the wrong spot
hold on i gotta look something up…yea thats funny
The problem is that people is waisting their time talking to haters, instead talking to me.
Wait why am I the one eating crackers?
I mean crackers are awesome, they’re just tiny salty bread and that’s great
Yeah, for like, the last three months or so. Doesn’t look like it’ll be stopping any time soon either.
Just realized the cast page still says Joyce is dating Joe and Dorothy is dating Walky. That sure needs updating.
Maybe it’s being intentionally left as it is because people were arguing about whether Joyce has or has not broken up with Joe, and clarifying it would deprive the comment section of one of its sources of needless drama.
Now we cut back to Walky and Jennifer and see that they’ve also been having sex this whole time.
Well that would be something…and much more entertaining than this.
They kept their glasses on the whole time‽ That’s the most unbelievable thing in this whole webcomic 🤣
Willis’s characters always do. And Willis themself wears glasses. So. One assumes they just feel differently about glasses during sex than many commented.
Sometimes you want to be able to see to see your partner. Especially for a first time.
Joementum. /s
That means that one day, Joyce too will be a 46-year-old woman turning her slashfics into a socially-conscious coming-of-age cartoon starring two 18-year-old freshman boys, fucking. Probably named something witty, like “Roomies 2: Electric Boogaloo.”
Though as Joyce ages like six months every ten years, it means we’ll have to wait until the year 2585 to get to this point in the story.
…
Pretty sure that Julia Gray and Doris Keener would be in there, too. Probably roommates. Julia’s probably have several love interests, and Doris would have a hat and play viola.
This was supposed to be a response to StClair, but it sounds way more unhinged by itself.
The Icon you have is perfect like Carla just decided to drop this truth bomb outa nowhere.
The neat thing about it happening in 2585, is that Joyce’s version of Carla can just be a talking sentient car which had their mind transferred into the body of an android resembling a 20-year-old girl and no one would bat an eye because nothing of that sounded out of the ordinary.
I’m sure it’d ruffle some feathers, but mostly from robophobes who have an issue with sentient cars living in the dorms instead of the garage. Those people can go to hell.
Or from sentient cars upset that their representative character had been put into a humanoid body just because of human-centric assumptions
Folks, always remember, your local sentient car probably needs a hug. Just don’t scuff the paint.
The Circle Of Life…
JOYCEPTION
Good for them!
The glasses stay on during
The slipshine is leaking from both ends!
oh. my.
*plays “sin pijama” on the hacked nearby open laptop*…
https://youtu.be/zEf423kYfqk
https://genius.com/Becky-g-and-natti-natasha-sin-pijama-lyrics
…but you guys haven’t learned when yo remove your glasses ^^u
*to remove
There’s a learning curve. They’ll figure it out.
I’m sure this strip is going to make everyone really mad, but I don’t care. I just love these two goobers to pieces.
I don’t really know what there is to be mad about, anyway. Nothing happened that we didn’t expect… oh wait, they kept their glasses on. Yes, that’s a reason to be furious. So irresponsible!
Mostly the juxtaposition with the Becky/Dina drama, but also a lot of people just hate whenever Joyce & Dorothy show up, and especially if they’re happy.
and if we’re being real here,
Joyce and Dorothy the majority of the time in this comic were hated even BEFORE they got together
and like, VALID.
like even Carla stated, just about every character is basically their own unique flavor of asshole
I honestly don’t think Willis intended either of them to be THAT like-able as people from the very get go?
Joyce is a white ex-fundie piece of shit, Dorothy is a goodie-two-shoes Lisa Simpson with over-achiever syndrome who can’t help but make other people into projects (and even admitted it herself), both of them have many lessons to be learning the hard way by being stupid over and over again
and the fact that they be together now, that was hinted at across in the entire comic?
I actually think it’s worth celebrating, but not for the reasons one may initially think
TL;DR it’s just as Yoto said
by dating each other, they have finally quarantined themselves from dating anyone else! 😂🥳👏🏽
So you’re going to love it if they go any version of poly.
Well, ideally after they work through their issues with each other’s help
come to think of it, their relationship is not only a quarantine but a makeship holding space in this way? 🤔
I don’t feel like intruding in any drama here. But it’s delicious and this popcorn is also sooo good.
THE GLASSES STAYED ON!
I am starting to suspect the author might use his comic to insert his personal fetishes. Just saying…
Okay, so far most of the characters had 2-3 different partners.
In the span of what, one semester?
I know this is a webcomic, but damn. I wish my love life moved at a tenth of their speed, even in real time (not comic time) they’ve outsped me
For real.
And with that last hesitant but shuddering climax, Dorothy’s mind turns to the front page photo of earlier, realizing that she just lost the Christian Nationalist vote in her on-and-off quest to be president.
Reevaluating her post-coital career options, Dorothy drops out of college and takes a job in Elkhart IN, repairing trombones for the Selmer company.
She’s a woman who would be running on a liberal ticket. She was never counting on the Christian Nationalist vote. They’d vote in a chimpanzee with a red tie if the chimp’s handlers said he was tough on immigration and was going to “drain the swamp.”
I mean they did vote for the orange shitgibbon…
that’s a really unfair comparison to gibbons, they don’t deserve that
How about ‘Toupeed Fucktrumpet’, another Scots term for him.
Scots stay winning
Enjoy this while you can, girls… because there will be unintended consequences, as there is with EVERY Dorothy plan. You two might have your “happily ever after” but your buddies sure as Hell aren’t…
At least take off your glasses, those are very uncomfortable when you’re lying on your side.
But you need glasses to admire you partner better. With moar details, colors….
Solid callback with that last panel banter, likin’ it. Fact is they have comedic chemistry
see comedic chemistry is also something that’s really, really, really high on my list for a potential partner. I couldn’t live without it.
Well then I suggest becoming a Willis character, they’ll pair you up with another Willis character and your couple banter will be fully Willis-on-Willis.
these two’r cute.
Somewhere out there, someone is already uploading the Slipshine artwork to an A.I. site to make an animated cartoon out of it.
We are truly living in the worst timeline.
*refuses to elaborate*
It’s funny because of the egregious theft and the insult to real artists everywhere that is feeding *someone else’s work* into the environmentally disastrous plagiarism slop machine.
I always wanted Dumbing of Age: The Animated Series, but not like this.
I may be an atheist, but there are times these days when I legit pray that I could get, ya know, ISEKAI’D @-@
silver lining is, the AI bubble may pop much sooner than expected,
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPnvrEWASWH/?igsh=YTBlaHNyamhuZXU0
Sorry, Monkey Paw Finger Curl, the only way any of us are getting isekai’d out of this timeline, is if they feed us into a computer simulation to train AI. You’ll just spend eternity teaching a robot how to maintain a microprocessor factory.
LLMs are dumb as hell, so I’d be convincing that motherfucker we needed to create genetically engineered 1980s anime catgirls. The ones with the wild hair and the conga-y faces and the fangs.
So as a tech dork with some machine learning experience, I’m skeptical that insta is talking about something that matters a whole lot (I would expect most LLM crawlers are not using the public google front-end but rather some kind of programmatic API to access search results — and honestly, I’m skeptical that LLMs ever “read the long tail of the internet” by going to google in the first place.)
That said, the AI bubble is going to pop, but that’s largely because every single use of an LLM loses money for the company whose LLM it is, and if they wanted to change that they’d have to charge something like 10x as much minimum, because costs are not actually dropping meaningfully compared to the explosion of additional resources that newer models use to try to achieve something even approximating accuracy.
Granted, it’s liable to take about 10% of the stock market with it when it does, because of how much bank NVidia has made on selling GPUs to do it, and especially because NVidia is now effectively paying datacenters to buy more GPUs to goose revenue numbers. Ed Zitron does some good analysis of the economics, but I would be surprised if the bubble lasts much longer than 1-2 years.
We are already starting to see controlled research that shows that LLM use slows developers down when measured objectively, and OpenAI themselves have a research paper out that boils down to “no LLM will ever be able to not hallucinate, because the technology doesn’t allow for the concept of truth/falsehood valuations”.
100% well said, also we cannot forget
https://ludic.mataroa.blog/blog/i-will-fucking-piledrive-you-if-you-mention-ai-again
Just to emphasize this from an economic perspective: data centers are the main driver of US economic growth this year. Without that, the economy would have shrunk. And, as you say, that’s a bubble that can’t last more than another couple years.
Batten down, it’s going to be a rough ride.
Big Z – Economics aside, we are getting into my area. RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generative AI) does in fact pull relevant search results in and puts them in the context window. Perplexity pulls them in from sites it considers reliable, for example.
It’s true that all the big LLMs are money losers, but the future costs are definitely going down and the current losses are properly understood as research costs. As of right now, for between $4,000 and $5,000 you should be able to be put on a wait list for delivery this year for a PC with an NVIDIA competitor chip that will run a 2 billion parameter model at a useful speed. It uses a special fast memory accessible by either the CPU or GPU. It’s not set up for data centers, but you can link two of them with a thick cable for more computing power and distributed speed. Moore’s law is not dead yet for some value of Moore’s law.
With individual panels from a web cartoon and the right prompting and a bit of editing of results, Googles Veo 3 model should definitely be able to a create a video from them, though for best results you should probably use one of the better voice to text services and one of the models that syncs mouth movements to speech.
Fun, all of my own ML experience came from the mid-late 2010s, which is part of why I’m skeptical — being intentionally vague, I was on a contract between “real” jobs where I babysat (I’m in engineering management lately, having got there from being an IT engineer generally) the implementation of a ML model that saved one of my larger customers something in the high nine figures yearly on a less than $1mil+6mo training budget and something like $500k/yr in run costs.
So you can understand why I think LLMs and generative AI in general are a step backwards, at least economically.
I’m not surprised that dedicated LLM search engines are using search results, but I also do suspect they’re pulling them via the google API rather than naively scraping the front page. 😀
Anyway, aside from that bit, I have a lot of specific experience on GPU-based supercomputing and infrastructure builds, and it’s less that Moore’s Law is dead and more that as far as I can tell, on a cost basis it’s being swamped by the power/cooling demands of higher transistor density. I was an executive at a small datacenter company after my ML stint up until very recently, and I’ve been fighting off recruiters wanting me to go back specifically because I’m convinced the datacenter economics alone are going to pop the bubble. As in, OpenAI has made some promises regarding datacenter buildout timelines such that if they can meet them, they should just be a datacenter company because they’re >3x faster than anything I’ve ever seen in the industry.
Somewhat obviously given my main non-cost and non-ethical concerns, I find it reasonable that shorter artistic works are going to be at the sweet spot for generative AI for the foreseeable — I don’t see how we get the kind of longer contexts and accuracy that would make a viable product for the price without fundamentally changing the model.
(painful — trying to talk about one’s specific experience without accidentally doxxing oneself by being too specific about a rather weird career journey 😀 )
As others have pointed out, AI is shaping up as just another Tech Bubble, which is why I’m reluctant to spend money to buy a compatible computer for it.
Reject AI, embrace Rotoscoping
😀
Always love how Willis manages to circle around and have a detail from years ago give fruits. 😎🤩🙌
So weird to see people griping about the coverage the two central characters of this comic are getting. I had to sit through months of walky and Lucy, and walky and amber back when I didn’t care about them, but I survived long enough to see story advancement with characters I liked again. Probably because I didn’t make griping to a community of like minds and slap fighting with opposing minds my driving form of personal entertainment.
In fairness, here I am now, making griping about people griping my driving form of personal entertainment.
Personally, I’m waiting for sal/amber to be a real ship.
True, during the whole Walky/Lucy thing I was waiting for the inevitable collapse – she went after him because she thought he was hot, he went along with it because he’s never stood up for himself even once which is why he was still his mom’s favorite. That’s not a good foundation for a relationship.
(Yet somehow I managed, through that entire arc, not to haunt the comments section telling everyone who liked it how wrong they were. Wish more folks could manage that trick…)
Yes, really. When we get characters I’m not interested in taking center stage, I mostly keep my mouth shut. Seems the polite thing to do for the fans of those characters and for the writer.
I would genuinely be so much less disheartened by the misery comments if they DIDN’T keep going out of their way to stomp on people who say they like what’s happening, or like Joyce or Dorothy in general.
Look, I don’t know where either of there two are, optically, but personally I’m so blind that if I take off my glasses during sex I’m going to have a halfway decent chance of getting lost and licking someone’s armpit.
Sometimes leaving glasses on is just a matter of actually being able to see what the fuck you’re doing.
It does seem like some folks have just completely forgotten that not everyone’s prescription is the same.
I think Joyce can probably see okay without them, especially up close, but Dorothy? We have no way of knowing, we’ve never seen her take them off except to sleep.
Joyce has actually taken off her glasses with Walky.
I don’t know if it was every time, but I very distinctly remember her asking where her glasses were when she suddenly felt inspired to do something during her post nut clarity.
Oh, Joyce is not going to be happy with that typo.
Conclusion: Joyce is willing to blur out the yucky boys during sex, but she is not missing one micro-pixel of that hot, hot Dorothy action.
Ff. It was definitely Dorothy, not Joyce, because Joyce hasn’t had sex with Walky (in this universe).
I mean, if they didn’t have their glasses on and their eyesight is as bad as mine is, I’m not ruling out honest mistakes here.
Ladies. Glasses!
Okay something not negative… I am so happy we didn’t smash cut to Walky on the toilet.
Does that count?
Ok but now this has to be tomorrow’s strip, surely?
Walky on the toilet wouldn’t be negative. That would be a great triumph. The boy has the body of a champion.
Like a caramel sculpture.
So, what’s Ruth up to?
Are she and Jason still a couple?
I don’t know why folks are opposed to these two.
I happy they’ve finally have gotten together and look forward to more lovey/dovey. More DoJo!!!
Personally, it’s extra rough because there’s nothing but “cute” to latch on to here. So if the ship isn’t endearing to me, there’s nothing else for me to care about.
For comparison, I never really liked Ruth & Billie, but they had enough going on in their dynamic that there was always something I could follow along with, drama-wise.
If this ship had more factors like that — Joyce’s various neuroses, for instance, or Dorothy’s control-freak instincts, that would add some flavor for me. Cute in the absence of other flavors only works if you like the pairing, and so I find the exclusively-cute strips boring to read.
No shade to ppl who are enjoying it! Just wanted to give an earnest answer to your question.
Addition: Joyce trying to break up with Joe and giving him a guilt/appreciation/lust blowjob instead was a great moment. I was mad about it at the time because it increased the dishonesty factor, but it was also remarkably on-brand and interesting to read.
Maybe because they knock down half of entire main cast to be together.
Hear, hear!
Based on my ( very distant) memories, these two running off to do the deed and worrying about the consequences later is very realistic. Them running around to make announcements, get permission and settling their future would have been unrealistic even for people more mature than these goobers.
Okay, but obviously, the story would be better if everybody acted like they were 40 years old, and employed constant therapy-speak while being entirely open and honest about their feelings, which they have a perfect understanding of, due to their years of experience living as their authentic selves, in a safe environment. That would make for a much better comic, because there’d be no dramatic stakes, and nobody would ever have a bad emotion!
(Look I’m just glad to see one other person who is willing to let the teenagers act like teenagers)
Sometimes I do think the problem is that actual teenagers are kind of insufferable or “cringe” to be around unless you are one (and sometimes even then).
on the other hand, if you think that “real adults” can’t be just as dumb and prone to making bad decisions…
I want every strip from now on to be about them making out just to spite half the commenters (and because they’re cool and they should love each other)
I second this!
I’m quite enjoying how the finger on this monkey’s paw is curling
Dorothy and Joyce are by far the cutest and most adorable couple in this comic’s entire history. I love them so much. I hope Becky and Dina manage to resole their issues though, because they are the second cutest and most adorable couple and I want them to stay together.
Becky and Dina take second only because of how obnoxious Becky could be about it sometimes (although I have to admit, snagging Dina as a girlfriend might have made me a little obnoxious at that age too). And I also strongly hope that they resolve this issue; I think that Dina knows enough human psychology that if she thinks past her own hurt for a while, she’ll come to the realization that Becky was just expressing her self-loathing and pushing everyone away in anticipation that they’d eventually do that to her (depression is like that sometimes, and Becky’s is completely untreated, which ain’t good for anybody).
I don’t think Dina knows much at all about human psychology. She is a highly intelligent person who does not naturally understand emotional cues and has to depend on learned rules to understand other’s behavior.
That’s why so many of us try to learn human psychology – we’re not born with this ability to convince ourselves that we just “understand” other people.
everyone who’s mentioning it seems to be asking why they kept their glasses on for this
I’m personally more interested in how they kept their glasses on. if I didn’t take mine off myself, they’d at least come off on their own in the rolling mess of it all
If your glasses are too loose to stay on by themselves, there are these little attachable elastic bands that slide on and hold them in place. Most department store places that sell glasses should have them.
Do people actually wear their glasses during sex? Like as a glasses wearer it seems either inconvenient, uncomfortable, or like a good way to break your glasses but as a virgin, my knowledge on that sorta topic is limited
The lenses do not break easily and modern frames can be fairly durable. If your approach to sex involves banging your head against the bed post or indulging in weight-bearing gymnastics involving your head, then your mileage may vary.
They can have a little happiness, as a treat. Before reality come crashing back down
well, there’s gonna be more of those yeses to come~※
the future is now, old promo materials
I love how there’s an absolute dichotomy between “lol A+ scene transition” and “NOOOO WORST SCENE TRANSITION.” I think it was kind of expected, personally.
Yeah, the combination of this couple being especially polarizing in a vacuum PLUS the whole “cheating story!/coming-out story!” bugs and daffy thing PLUS the fact that there’s been a lot more DoJo adorableness per unit time than a lot of previous couples makes for a lot of heavily polarized opinions.
Even if I suspect that 90% of the opinions expressed here are significantly more extreme than the commenter in question actually feels, on both sides of the line.
I wish I had your confidence in that last bit…
I mean, I literally don’t believe that people who are reading a college dramedy ACTUALLY want the comic to turn into “sunshine and roses for DoJo forever” any more than I believe any of the people who are gonna quit reading any day now until DoJo goes away.
I suspect the average opinion is much closer to either “Meh, these dorks are boring, get on with the other story threads already” or “so happy my ship sailed, nice to see them every couple of strips”.
I’m adoring, adoring they together.
*them together
“Learn to say yes to each other,” this is clearly a reference to am earlier comic but for the life of me I cannot remember, and I do not know how to search for words in a comic strips’ dialogue… Anyone remember.
here, this strip
It’s dawning on me that having a story arc centered around a mildly problematic lesbian relationship is a great way to gauge how misogynistic your audience is, suddenly both women involved are simultaneously evil cheaters and also the most boring and stale members of the whole cast
Like nevermind every story arc they’ve experienced before this, they’re just soooo boring, how dare the central characters of this arc be onscreen for an entire *gets out calculator* 61% of it so far, the author is letting them get off way too easy, sure the fallout from the kiss has visibly negatively impacted several of their closest relationships but they’re allowed to have consensual sex with each other instead of being punished for their fornication, how dare they >:(
Love them so much! <3