From Becky, a character so paralyzingly afraid of anyone growing or changing that she loses faith in God because Joyce grew and considers suicide at just the thought of herself ever growing/changing? Gonna get worse before anything gets better.y
afraid of the dark? speak for yourself!!! I went to a lake in the middle of the night a couple days ago just to get pictures of the full hunter moon with zero light pollution
of course that walking meant through more spider webs than I cared for and my feet being covered in nidocaine after a long day of hiking, worth it tho
Also Dina had a whole chapter called “walking with Dina” where she got thought bubbles (and Becky got one bubble). It was the chapter where they officially got together. Where she lead toe dad away from the school and put him on a bus to the mall
Dina is adorable in every panel of this strip. Especially panels 3 and 4. Her understated–comparatively to characters like Joyce, or admittedly Dina herself in panel 1– but incredibly emotive expressions are so good.
She better get space to express her concerns about Becky’s reaction. So adorable to see them supportive and sweet to each other, and I’m not one to immediately assume the worst of Becky for having a tough moment, but Dina gets to have her own questions or concerns about Becky, and Becky’s reaction, too.
This is probably gonna make someone mad, and I don’t really even mean this as criticism, but joy seems kind of weird. Yay you agree with me, I’m thrilled? A’ight.
Maybe it’s because I’m a pagan who views the existence of deities as entirely irrelevant to most people’s lives, but I’m not really imagining myself feeling joy if somebody came to me agreeing with like, my political positions or favorite pizza toppings either. (Hell, I’d probably be irrationally jealous if I had to share my pineapple mushroom deep pan crust.)
If I had to hazard a guess at empathy, it’s likely due to how beliefs in magic are unscientific and promote erroneous views of the world. Remember, Dina has always expressed pain when people state as facts things that are not true. So many of her interactions with Joyce and Becky up until, like, 2018, were just Dina suffering as she learned what Christian/Fundees actually believed in.
Yeah, I suppose. I feel the same way about believing in capitalism and white-Victorian-rationalism fucking the world up but I guess like specifically if one of my loved ones believed in that shit I’d be happy if they stopped? I know I’ve worked pretty hard trying to get my bestie to drop some of the background-radiation cultural racism she retains from her Christian conservative days.
The joy might be less out of a sense of “hehe I’m right” and more glad that Becky is getting further and further away from the cult she was born into but I see what you mean. I think I’d consider that more relief (“Phew, my loved one is no longer brainwashed”) rather than joy (“Oh boy! Yay, my loved one is no longer brainwashed”).
Dina seems to have issues with magic, gods, and pseudo-science. She also recognizes that magical beliefs have caused Becky pain in the past, so she’s possibly joyful that those feelings are going away.
Joy because ‘yay you finally came to the correct assessment’ but also concern because she knows Becky didn’t believe for logical reasons but instead for emotional ones. Deeply personal, trauma based family loss reasons, critical emotional support reasons. Dina can’t feel what Becky does but she can recognize a person in pain.
Religion is probably a constant point of tension between them. We just don’t see a lot of these two, so it hasn’t been on-screen. They’re both very clear about everything that matters to them, so when Becky is regularly saying “God is Great” and Dina is saying “There is no god”, they’re both probably going to feel dismissed. Or they censor themselves, which isn’t fun.
There’s a lot of reasons Dina could feel joy that Becky is leaving Christianity behind, but that feels like an obvious one.
as an autistic person i think a lot of it may boil down to autistic black and white thinking where it can feel like, actively painful to know someone has a differing opinion over something than you do. which obviously is not a great thing, but it is an explanation to why she might be like yay! another reason might be that she can recognize that a lot of trauma becky has endured is related to religion, and seeing her come ‘out’ of it a little bit feels like a good step, even if it might not be being expressed well. (again, autism!)
Nah you’re right. I’ve only ever dated atheists, but the ones who talked about my beliefs like “how nice for you even though you’re wrong” were always super alienating. Dina is gonna be Dina, and it’s not like Becky was in a solid place theologically to begin with, but it’s a very condescending way to talk about religion. With your PARTNER!!
personally I agree, and it’s why I’d never find myself in serious relationship with a non-atheist. But the dialogue seems pretty realistic to me.
I’m thrilled every time one of my acquaintances or friends leaves religion, but I’m also concerned at what’s bringing them there, if it’s trauma and disappointment at the world rather than merely changing worldviews in the face of new evidence, because I don’t want anybody to want to experience traumas that leed to existential disappointment.
As an atheist who thinks religions have been far more harmful than good for the world, I tend to feel a little happy when people I’m close to and people I care about in general express skepticism of religious ideas. Similarly, I tend to feel happy when more people express criticism of harmful capitalist ideas.
I do too. It’s hard for me to see a case where a magical world view can be anything but harmful. Is it ok for people to live happily in a delusional state?
We need a shared reality for democracy to work, for one.
This seems kind of awkward to me. I’m not comfortable with the evangelical approach, even when it’s applied to atheism. Especially when it’s tied to a “for the good of the state” argument.
It’s not really a slippery slope at the moment, given that atheists completely lack the political power to act on such ideas, other than on a personal level, where it’s just annoying.
I mean… not to sound flip, but literally everyone lives “in a delusional state” if you use that to refer to being wrong about things, which… is also not what a delusion is or why delusions are harmful. As someone who’s done a lot of work unpacking the shit I grew up with- both cultural and trauma-related issues- it really annoys me when people use that argument because like, buddy, you’re literally expressing a fundamental misunderstanding of how sanity works. Is it okay for you to live happily while believing that? It’s not only wrong, it’s probably hurting you and others around you a hell of a lot more than the average someone who, I dunno, believes in ghosts or something.
If we need a shared reality for democracy to work, we’re kind of fucked as a species, because religion is a function of culture and culture is a function of us being primates in sufficient numbers, and I don’t think that’s true anyway.
Lots of bad things are functions of culture; as time passes, we try to change culture to have fewer of them. I see no reason to think that organized religion couldn’t eventually be one of the things we leave behind.
It could be, but when I say religion is a function of culture, I mean that defining what’s religion and what’s not religion isn’t nearly as simple as it sounds like from the perspective of a culture that divides the “secular” from the “sacred” as neatly as we try to. Not only do not all cultures do that, both perspectives are equally arbitrary. We can’t “get rid of the supernatural” even if it is all bullshit because the definition of religion can’t not be squiffy, and the definition of the supernatural that we currently use is a tautology.
like, there’s religion as personal/spiritual thing where one wants to be with and act on values which are important to them, which will continued to be acted upon a long time into distant, distant future, far long after one ceases to live
and there’s religion as an authoritarian institution for controlling people, even at the expense of denying material truths which otherwise could have a positive benefit to all our lives
when people in US English speaking spheres refer to themselves being against the latter as being “anti-religious”,
what they ACTUALLY mean is that they are against institutional religion and religious authoritarianism
that this is their impression of what ALL religion is like period says a lot less about all religion itself and more about how (mostly white) US folk come from a country/culture so thoroughly informed by toxic, over-represented, authoritarian Christian belief systems to the point to which ANY religion looks suspicious to them
you can very much be religious and not believe in deities
Shinto/Buddhists don’t believe in gods the very same way westerners do, and it’s for this reason that a majority of them count as atheists, just to name one of many examples
i mean, generally speaking, i also don’t align with the former – I’m a materialist – and I vaguely think the world would be better without spirituality even. I just don’t spend much time thinking about it because the latter is destroying the world.
You also don’t need religion as such to have authoritarian institutions for controlling people. Other ideologies can play essentially the same role.
There’s a good argument that communism in Soviet Russia did so or Maoism in particular in China.
We’ve seen lots of examples of her interactions with Joyce, in which “because my religion says so” justifies some anti-science that actually infuriate her. While Becky has been slowly learning science and letting go of bad beliefs, I imagine letting go of the core that holds all those beliefs together will get her there a lot faster (no longer having to do mental gymnastics to work things into the existent framework), and Dina is glad she won’t have to watch those gymnastics play out anymore (for herself, and for Beckys sake).
Becky hasn’t been particularly slow about learning science especially. I don’t think we’ve ever seen her struggling with it or even dealing with it all since the initial scenes with Dina last semester. Certainly not anywhere near the emphasis we’ve seen with Joyce, even after she deconverted.
The only thing we’ve seen her struggle with at all was premarital sex and she’s well past that now.
You know, it’s possible to believe in a deity while still believing that the sciences, which uncover the truth of reality, are part of His showing us the wonders of His work. Evangelical Protestantism isn’t the only religion, or even the only Christian religion.
By the way, I genuinely enjoy that Dina is so emotive specifically with Becky. Like she truly unmasks. Pleeeeeeease let Becky continue to be her safe emotional place
Emotions are not always rational. Becky is allowed to feel devastated by this particular turn of events (the dating and Hank’s reactions) even if she’s happy in her relationships otherwise. Dina is emotionally intelligent enough to understand this and hopefully won’t feel insecure if they do talk it out, which Becky really needs to do to process.
I don’t think this will result in a break up. Becky’s hangup is the time she spent pining and hoping for Joyce and coping with the rejection as “Joyce isn’t Gay or Bi” and being fine since it was impossible. Becky finding out with WAS possible all along she just wasn’t enough to cause it to happen is devastating because it reflects on her as a person. Dina would get that and probably use the “one door closed so another opens” analogy to get Becky to focus on what they have as opposed to what she missed to help her truly heal from it.
I feel that Becky thinking that she “wasn’t enough” for Joyce to realize that she could be attracted to women is a correct reading of Becky’s point of view. I do think that it is an incorrect reading of Joyce, though. When Becky kissed Joyce, Joyce had never considered the possibility that she might be attracted to girls. Speculating about whether Joyce might have had romantic feelings for Becky, or that Joyce just wasn’t ever going to have romantic feelings for Becky, had she been open to them at that time is just that – speculation.
I do not know how to name the emotion seen in panel 3, but Willis really captures that expression.
It’s like Joyful, sad, compassionate, encouraging pity maybe? I don’t it seems to be both one feeling and like 5 superglued together.
Mmmmmmaybe this is the autism in me understanding the autism in Dina, but…yeah no I do understand why she phrased it like that. To not preface it like that would feel, well, a bit emotionally dishonest, were I in her place. Because she does understand that this is a bad thing, and that’s shown in the rest of the panels, but to not acknowledge in some way that this is something she’s wanted to hear from her girlfriend for a while would feel like a lie. idk. Does anyone get what I mean here?
It’s something I wouldn’t say to someone I was less close with, I’d figure out a more socially acceptable response, but those who understand me best and I don’t have to mask around? Yeah
She explicitly said she tried go get a diagnosis in the past but doctors just said her problems because of “English as second language” or some such despite her being born in America.
She is! When that doctor first told Joyce she might be autistic, there was a bit about Dina being frustrated how easy it was for Joyce when it was such a struggle for herself to get diagnosed (mostly due to racism).
Given your reply right under this, forgive me if I don’t believe you’re engaging with this comic in good faith. Do you really think Dina is saying “I’m so happy!” here? Genuinely?
right, if Dina were doing what some commenters think she’s doing, she’d gloss past the “concerns” part and just celebrate the transition and ask no follow-up questions
Which is kind of why I said it wasn’t a good response. If you view them and their beliefs as utter nonsense, you have a big problem in your relationship.
Dina has her bias, which is a problem they need to address.
I guess we believe the same thing about this, which is that if one person in a relationship views the other’s beliefs as utter nonsense, you have a big problem in you relationship.
And Dina clearly feels that way about Becky, and I think it’s a problem they need to address. I just think Dina’s right and they should break up (in the sense that any fictional characters “should” do anything, since after all, they’re not real people).
yes, i completely agree here. i think her reaction is appropriate – acknowledging her deeper agreement with Becky’s stated position while providing support to her girlfriend. Neither negates the other. She doesn’t want Becky to go down the wrong path but it is probably correct to view such a sudden statement with concern, i think.
I totally agree with you. It was so obvious to me that this is right course of action that I didn’t consciously noticed it. But yes. She wanted for Becky not believe in God , because that’s not real, so of course that brings her joy. But she sees Becky’s emotions and can read them as something to be concerned about. Both of these emotions are real for her and she cannot censor herself to not express them. That wouldn’t be healthy for her nor the relationship.
To whitstand one or the other would be lie
That’s not what Dina is saying; she’s expressing happiness that Becky might be moving past something that has caused her pain, but she also recognizes that Becky’s beliefs changing so drastically must be from something painful.
“Joyce and Becky kissed so there is no Lesbian God! Even worse…Hank accepted it with only some questions about whether they were commies. Which is ludicrous. They don’t believe in seizing the means of production, that’s my thing!”
It’s so easy not to engage with Taffy if you’re bothered by them, there’s no need to call their name out in a conversation thread they hadn’t even engaged in yet.
I think the weirdest I’ve gotten so far is someone saying they wanted to “ask me questions later” and that they maybe owed me an apology. Don’t know them at all, never did get the questions lmao.
Ah, yes. I believe it was with respect to giving the land back to the native Americans. I was uncertain to whether you had made a remark about comments I had made under the impression that I was talking about some situations where management of lands had been returned to native Americans, which seems to me in many circumstances quite possibly a reasonable thing to do, though I have little or no information as to when or under what circumstances this may have actually occurred or been proposed or whether you were referring to what I actually had in mind, which was everyone of European descent returning to Europe and giving the land back to the native Americans – a thing which is not happening. In any case, I am interested in any information or relevant links you could give me.
The context in which this occurred was me attempting to call out the blatant hypocrisy of Americans who justify/condone violence against people they consider to be living on stolen land while conveniently ignoring that we are living on what is essentially stolen land. And not too much essentially about it. I was exasperated and quite likely was not as careful with my language as I should have been. I didn’t want to discuss it further until the immediate heat of the moment had dies down. However, it was not my intent to belittle native Americans in any way, nor to reflect negatively on any effort to return control of any particular public lands to native Americans, a subject on which I am woefully ignorant. To whatever extent I appeared to be doing so, I am honestly sorry.
If I’ve somehow confused you with someone else, I apologize about that as well. So that was it, but I would appreciate any information you could point me at.
I don’t remember the conversation, but it mirrors a conversation I have a few times a week as a native person.
I encourage you to do your own research, look up the Landback movement, and educate yourself about it from indigenous-led sources/websites. I’m not going to be talking about it at length here or providing links today as I’m not very big on running legwork for people I don’t know unless I’m in a specific mood.
It’s awesome you’re interested, I hope you find good info on it.
I’m gonna spend the rest of the night failing to think of a “Pile of Lesbos” pun for “seizing the means of production” and either it doesn’t exist or it’s really really obvious and I’ll feel like a dolt
I would be very surprised if any characters in this comic believed in seizing the means of production. And I’m not sure which character you’re imagining saying this stuff.
Aw man. I get where Dina is coming from in trying to be comforting but “bad things happen regardless of whether you notice them” is probably NOT going to be super comforting to Becky right now.
Becky blames herself for her mother’s death in part because she didn’t notice, and she copes by telling herself that she WILL look and notice from now on, because will change something. I’m sure the philosophy is something she clings to for a lot of other things too, and might just make her feel powerless/pointless.
Why? She doesn’t know literally anything about what just happened with Becky….and we knew she was an athiest.. what is she doing that’s so unlikeable here? Expressing that she’s torn between two emotions and acknowledged that Becky must have gone through something to get through something…
I’m an agnostic Atheist. I’ve been an agnostic atheist my entire life. If someone came to me and told me they’re giving up or moving on from religion I wouldn’t ever phrase it as “ah yes. You’ve made the correct choice. My way of looking at the world is correct. The idea that there is no deities is the right one” It’s reddit atheist shit.
This. Fucking thiiiiiiiis. Regardless of Dina’s view of religion, it’s an important part of Becky’s core identity. Like, I do think it’s funny that when Becky was really upset when she caught Joyce making fun of Christianity, she was like “Dina doesn’t do that behind my back!” and it’s like… that you know of, Becky. Because she definitely has, you just haven’t caught her in the act.
She’s made fun of religion behind Becky’s back. Not of Becky specifically, but then Joyce wasn’t intending to do that either.
I don’t think Dina has done the “believers are dumb” thing Joyce did that really hurt Becky, but the two of them have a very different context for that, since a lot of what Joyce meant was “I was dumb for believing”, which wouldn’t apply to Dina.
Ah, then I can see why you’d take issue with this, but I guess it’s only natural that Dina as a human was bound to have her own moments of fuckuppery eh?
Thanks for explaining though, I was genuinely curious.
I don’t think any of the dialogue she says before or after she says that changes the context of that sentence.
Like yes she’s more worried about what this emotional response means for Becky means and wants to reassure and comfort her. But like…she still says “while a position of no deities is correct” which is the line I take umbrage with. It’s good she’s got enough depth to realize Becky’s statement means more than it lets on but she still had to pepper in “Believing there are no deities is the correct thing to believe”. I don’t like that.
I think it’s a fair setup to be like, “You’re saying something I agree with, but it’s still concerning.” Also helps limit deflection in the form of, “Hey, aren’t you happy I agree with you now?” Like, yeah, that’s covered, onto the concerning parts.
There is a subtle but I feel important difference between “I agree with this” and ” this is correct”. If the former is what Dina intended she chose her words poorly and I would say I still think she should be more mindful.
Much as I like Dina, that line irked me too.
Also on a pedantic level. There’s no way to disprove every possible imaginable deity, after all. Come on, Dina, you’re scientifically minded — you know this.
In fact, please show me even a single piece of evidence against the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
There’s no way to prove or disprove anything, if we’re being maximally pedantic. Nevertheless we all are obligated to exist in and interact with reality, so we use words like “true” and “correct” for things which are, philosophically speaking, close enough.
Fair enough (to feel how you feel about it), but I also don’t fault her much for not phrasing it perfectly when put on the spot. I also see it as more her direct style of communication, which is something that will rub people the wrong way sometimes.
Having to provide evidence to disprove things for which there is no evidence is the wrong paradigm. That’s whole point of hypotheticals like the FSM or more philosophically, Russell’s Teapot.
Out of curiosity, is it that you dislike Dina for thinking that at all, or just for saying so out loud? My feeling is that in very close relationships it’s better to be honest about sincere beliefs than to attempt to minimize friction. If I believe something that my partner thinks is fundamentally incorrect, I’d much rather know about it than have them hide it.
Moreso the latter than the former. For example. I don’t believe in God. But I do know belief in God is important to people. And I’m not conceited enough to say I know with absolute certainty that there are no gods. Which is why I say “I don’t believe in God.” Rather than “God doesn’t exist.” Similarly I find it irksome when people say “God exists therefore…” Rather than “I believe in God, therefore…”
For a more pedantic example I strongly feel like the movie version of sonic the hedgehog is a poor adaptation of the character. But I know lots of people like that version. So I rarely say “movie sonic sucks” ( outside of when I’m choosing to be an asshole). I say “I really really don’t like movie sonic.”
I would find dinas comment infinitely more favorable if she had said “while I agree there are no deities…” Rather than claiming it to be “correct”
this just seems like complete pedantry. We say things are correct all the time that we can’t prove, and in fact, we treat this as totally normal behavior. If somebody gets a trivia question correct on a game show, the host says “correct, 400 points”, not “I believe this to be true, and it aligns with the current consensus, so we’re granting you provisional points that we might revoke at a later time”
Now, for completely subjective things that don’t really have a truth value like whether or not a movie is “good”, sure, makes sense to say “I don’t like X” as opposed to “X sucks” (although, people say things like “best movie of all time” or “great movie” or “it was an ok movie” all the time, and again, it seems like ridiculous pedantry to critique that language)
Your post is just…agreeing with me. I think this topic IS completely subjective cuz nobody knows whether or not it’s true. It IS completely subjective. There’s no “general consensus” cuz a huge amount of people have mixed views on the existence of deities.
subjective doesn’t mean “we don’t know” or “the answer is unclear”. It means dealing with things that don’t have truth values, because they are just a matter of perspective. Whether or not an entity exists is something that has a truth value, however complicated or even impossible it is to be 100% certain about that truth value.
Whether or not god exists is a question with an objective answer, no matter how difficult or even impossible it is to determine that truth value. So it seems totally reasonably to talk about it just like we talk about other things with truth values.
Yeah it’s so cool how autism is a trait that only fictional characters have. Surely there are no real people who share the same traits you find exhausting in Dina.
How brave of you to speak truth to power like that.
Yeah it’s so cool how that’s not at all what I said and also how you assume me finding Dina, a fictional character exhausting means I find all autistic people exhausting. Surely I’m not allowed to take umbrage with any of her traits or personality or actions because autistic people are a monolith and all of them act the same forever and my dislike of literally any one specific autistic person, fictional or otherwise means I not only hate every single thing about her but also every single thing about every single autistic person on the planet.
That’s so cool. You’re so cool.
Please show me where I said you find all autistic people exhausting. I’m saying she’s exhibiting traits that are shared by many other autistic people. If you find that exhausting, well, your words not mine. What I was taking issue with was you saying that was in ANY way brave, and not an opinion shared and expressed by a lot of people, loudly and regardless of how it makes the people around them feel.
Thanks! I’d much rather be the kind of person you find exhausting than to be anything like you.
Lots of people of lots of different neurodivergences have lots of traits. You didn’t even ask me what I find exhausting about her. You just assumed it’s because she’s neurodivergent. You don’t even know if I AM NEURODIVERGENT. I DIDN’T EVEN START BY SAYING I’M BRAVE. I was sarcastically responding to someone else calling me brave for criticizing dina, who’s autism I didn’t even bring up in my complaints but everyone seems to think I have a problem with. You’re making blatant assumptions about me cuz you think I’m a bad person. You don’t know anything about me. You’re treating me like shit.
WHY DO YOU HATE ME? YOU DON’T KNOW ME? WHY ARE YOU BEING SO CRUEL?
That’s a wild way to characterize that conversation, but lately that’s been your MO in these comment sections, feels like. Anyway you have a less exhausting night too.
Shiro, you made your point very badly. I still don’t know how that’s a “distillation of your point” even after having read the whole comment chain. I don’t know what your point is supposed to be.
Yeah, gonna kindly suggest you rethink this one. Speaking from the experience of growing up in a household full of neurodivergent family members and being one myself (in both cases, including autism), we are absolutely allowed to find each other exhausting at times. Sometimes I *love* gelling with other ADHD/Autistic people…and sometimes I find them exhausting. That’s not ableism: that’s being a human being without infinite reserves that is affected by those around me.
Now living as an adult with one of those family members still, we each take our times to say, “I love you…I need (X)” – quiet time, house to myself, lower noise, fewer distractions, less talking, etc. etc. etc. because we can find each other exhausting.
I love the fact that we can (usually) communicate about these needs out loud to each other…but when I notice either of us avoiding being truthful about how the other is affecting us, usually frustration and a blow up follows soon, unless we’re *open* and transparent (with admittedly varying levels of tactfulness) about how we’re feeling and what we need.
As a definitely-not-neurotypical fellow myself, I can confirm both ways. There are times when I just can’t, with people. To my wife (who may be NT, but may be ND, but in a completely opposite direction) there’s sometimes she can’t, with me.
But that’s not quite what I feel Yotomoe and biomanzilla are saying; rather, that she just is an exhausting person, period, and they wouldn’t be able to stand her in real life.
Which… I’m torn on. For one thing, rude. But on the other hand… no one’s obligated to like anyone. They’re not dating Dina, or even friends with her. We all have people who, for whatever reason, we can’t stand. It’s part of life.
I’m sure there’s more than one person who sees my name and thinks “What on earth is that fucker yapping about now?” And that’s fine. As long as people aren’t being hostile I couldn’t care less.
If there’s one thing I feel is wrong here, it’s that Bio’s initial statement, and by extension Yoto’s agreement, is that this wasn’t a personal preference but some sort of universal fact. That Dina isn’t just a character that gets under their skin, but is just universally exhausting. And that’s going over the line.
Since nobody’s bothered to talk to me like a human person I guess I’ll just clarify here.
I specifically said “I often find Dina exhausting.” which I feel like implicitly implied an inherent subjectivity but I GUESS THE FUCK NOT.
For why I often find Dina exhausting, she has a rather stiff and inflexibleness about her that often rubs me the wrong way. She can tend to be short with people, which I simply don’t vibe with. She’s often times a bit opinionated and she sometimes has this unflinching “I’m right” energy that tends to irk me at the best of times. Dina’s cute, and quirky but she’s not often nice or kind. She can be accommodating though which is nice. And you can tell she’s really putting in an effort with socializing. But I often feel like her personality just doesn’t vibe with me often times. And yes. Autistic people have personalities actually and me not vibing with her personality doesn’t mean I hate her for being autistic.
Now I would be happy if people would actually respond to what I say instead of jumping down my throat for not liking neurodivergent people based solely on me not liking this character from this webcomic. There’s lots of characters I don’t gel with in this comic, but I mention Dina and suddenly I gotta walk on eggshells cuz people just narrow her down to merely being an autistic rep and not a multifaceted character with traits, personality, habits and goals beyond her neurodivergent status.
Yoto, you’re not supposed to admit autistic people have personalities. You’re supposed to treat us like a helpless monolith who can’t be held accountable for anything, based solely on one diagnosable aspect of our existence, and if you have even a single complaint about a fully fictional character who happens to be autistic, you’re inherently endorsing RFK’s rhetoric against us. That’s a totally reasonable standard to hold someone to, right?
@Yoto: Sorry people tried to frame that like you hate autistic people (especially when you were talking about one character in a cast with multiple autistic people); I think some of it was impacted by it coming off of biomanzilla’s comment, which definitely didn’t treat it with the same subjectivity as you did.
Paragraph 1 – response to Sarah Lee, expressing understanding about feeling exhausted at times
Paragraph 2 – saying that the views expressed before are just that they would feel exhausted being with these people. You have confirmed this several times.
Paragraph 3 – saying it sounds rude, but there’s nothing wrong with this.
Paragraph 4 – saying I’m sure I’m exhausting to people but as long as they’re not being hostile I don’t mind.
Paragraph 5 – the only issue was Bio’s global statement, to which you agreed to with “yeah honestly”.
If you feel like I’m being unfair with you for agreeing with bio, and that’s why you’re screaming “I GUESS THE FUCK NOT” at me, then I’m sorry. My intent was just to put something in perspective. The main reason I didn’t talk directly to you, didn’t mention what you said, only said “and Yoto by extension,” is that other than agreeing with Bio, you said nothing wrong at all, and you expressing your personal opinion on a clashing personality is exactly what I meant when I said that it’s fine to have people you don’t get along with, and I should’ve made that clearer. I am a honestly sorry for having hurt you.
Naw sorry I was just so frustrated by the other comment thread my hostility kinda spread to my earlier message. I wasn’t mad at you per se. I was just feeling a bit ganged up on and lashed out a bit haphazardly.
Thank you, sincerely. Made an audible (of delayed) snort once my brain fully passed Mike’s. Marcie got a slightly smaller one.
Beautifully done.
At least to introverts, I find generally speaking ANYONE is better in smaller doses than larger ones. I don’t think I’m any objectively better than anyone on this list…and sometimes I am the person I find most exhausting to be stuck with.
I think a good concept is: Socialize responsibly and in moderation. At least for me.
Yeah, I was assuming that Taffy would leave Mike out and had a reply half prepared, but no. I particularly like how Taff just had to mention the name of Rachel and Robin and no further explanation was required.
Honestly I feel like Walky could be much lower but I feel like me and him would vibe on so many things specifically that I’d never get sick of him, but I could easily see him being someone else’s F-tier.
Kinda funny how some of my favorite characters are super low tier and some of my less liked characters are high tier simply cuz they’re pretty chill.
True. I’d rather hang out with Fuckface than ANY of those people. https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/aecad3be5bea.png
fixed it.
Also moved Danny down. Cuz while he’s chill right now he can be a bit opinionated and whiny at times. Plus that shit he said to Ethan still creases me.
Sometimes I hit random when I’m bored and end up at him comparing Mike being generally an asshole to Darth Vader blowing up an entire planet and it’s cringe city all over again.
I think I’d still put Dina at the top of my tier list, if I were to bother to make one… in part because I think I could count on her not to interact much.
I mean, I’d still probably enjoy listening to her talk about dinosaur stuff (not out of a huge interest in my part, but simply because it’s usually nice to listen to someone talk about something they’re genuinely enthusiastic about), but she’d be most the likely cast member to accept it if I were to tell her I’m out of social energy.
Besides, if she did get annoying, I could probably just ask her to explain some obscure but complicated bit of dinosaur trivia and then tune her out for the next hour or so.
https://images2.imgbox.com/f4/34/YM8fyqTB_o.png I went ahead and did it too. This doesn’t reflect my opinion on the characters as characters in the comic, merely whether I think I could be friends with them or not.
High placement for Daisy. Part of me feels like I could bond with her over our mutual love of ladies but I also feel like we’d be talking past each other a lot cuz my enjoyment still involves a guy in some way.
I could fix her. That’s honestly the main reason I placed her up high cause otherwise I have no idea what her hobbies and interests are other than ‘women’ LMAO and I know what you mean, if you mentioned a guy she might zone out.
Bryy’s comment is in response to biomanzilla, just in case that wasn’t clear– because I do think there’s something wrong with, “If you had to deal with someone like her in real life she’d be unbearable.”
Oh, I got who they were responding to. I agree with biomanzilla, Dina would be best in small doses IRL. She’s often just as self-righteous and indignant about her beliefs as Joyce and Becky can be, it just happens that her beliefs are mainly bounced up against Christian fundamentalist cult beliefs, so she tends to come off looking better by default. She reacts to those contradictions the same way a Gen-X man reacts when you’ve just told him you haven’t watched Back to the Future, which isn’t dissimilar to the reaction a dog has when you’ve hidden the ball behind your back after pretending to throw it. Exaggerated and disproportionate bafflement, that is.
Plus, whether it’s for comedy or not, it would be a pain in the ass getting tackled by someone making a loud, obnoxious noise just for saying something about dinosaurs that doesn’t follow the latest science.
I love Dina. She’s one of my favorite characters in the comic. I would not want to interact with her for a prolonged period of time in real life, because she’s an opinionated teenager who’s still coming to terms with people existing differently to her, and hasn’t shaken off her overreactions yet.
I do understand the potential read of “someone like her” meaning “an autistic person”, but as the most autistic person in any given room, I tend to get worn out quickly when I’m dealing with a younger autist, so I don’t necessarily take issue with that read. Even without that, not every kind of person has to find every other kind of person bearable, and as long as biomanzilla isn’t openly* supporting eugenicist efforts to get rid of autistic people, I’m mature enough to not take it personally.
*I say “openly”, because I haven’t noticed any of that rhetoric from them, and if they’re only doing shit against us in private, I have no way of knowing about it, so it’s not worth my time to assume they are and operate under that assumption.
All that said, if you got receipts they’ve been sayin’ eugenics shit about autistics in general and not just “I really wouldn’t want to hang out with this teenage character who’s incidentally autistic”, I’ll turn on ’em in a second. I got no loyalties when it comes to that.
This part.
Dina tends to engage in the same narrow world view as some of the religious types she opposes. She speaks in a lot of “this is. This is not” and not a lot of “I think…I feel…” Talking to her would only be as fun as I’m willing to agree with her/have to patience to not combat her on any of her opinions. Heck even when I do agree with her (like on the belief there are no gods) I don’t really l9ke the way she delivers that idea.
I would probably not hang out with Dina if given the opportunity
I mean, that definitely identifies where we differ. I actually am not bothered by narrow worldviews (except inasmuch as we should retain some room for empirical wiggle as new information emerges), just for their imposition on others.
I feel like we have this idea that to be an atheist or to be liberal or to be leftist is to be so non-committal and non-confrontational about what we believe, and personally, I’m not. I’m open to having my mind changed, for sure, but in the meantime, my mind stays:
1) where the bulk of the evidence is when it comes to matter of facts
2) on a (hopefully) consistent and well-reasoned worldview when it comes to morals
3) On my existing preferences for matters of aesthetics, with an understanding that aesthetics are largely subjective and vary significantly from person to person as well and there’s no sense in having strong comparative aesthetic judgements.
And you don’t approach people with judgement for having beliefs that are factually incorrect or morally dubious, you approach them with a desire to disagree freely, state your opinions bluntly, and respect the other’s views without needing to ever entertain that they might be true (except when presented with evidence to the contrary or a compelling argument). That state can remain until one of you sees otherwise, unless it turns out that worldview divergence indicates something neither can get over and neither can see the other side on, in which case if it’s a big enough deal, you probably don’t need to be in relationship at all.
And where evangelical religion loses me is that it tries to enforce those beliefs on others. But Dina isn’t saying “society should be able to make you disbelieve in god”. Dina is saying “oh, yeah, I would normally be happy that you’ve come to the viewpoint that I find correct, but I instead see that you are in a troubling emotional state, and that’s actually the important thing right now”.
I definitely think it’s needlessly harsh and obviously not true for everyone. Bio never clarified why they felt that way and everyone just assumed they and by an extension I only felt that way cuz of phobia for Neurodivergence rather than a distaste for Dina as a person.
I mean they could be. I have no way of knowing.
Having no way of knowing (without clarification) is why I’m disinclined to make such a wild assumption, unlike some people. It just doesn’t make sense as a first instinct.
You’ve made your point, no idea why you are continuing to pick at chat. You *really* need to work on this “they wrote something that means they are bad” thing you have going on.
can’t reply to the actual comment because it’s maximally nested, but I work in politics, and it’s definitely about how “concentration camp” vibed the actual world is getting.
And I get it! They’re talking about rounding me up too, after all. If there’s gonna be a time when folks are on edge, it’s now. Still, I don’t think assuming everyone is definitely saying the worst possible version of what they’ve said is going to help us in any tangible way.
That’s fair, but I feel like the reaction has been equivalent to if I said like “fuck you you’re clearly a terrible person who wants people like me dead” and not a somewhat snide “wow, hot take”.
This whole comment section has an extremely on-edge vibe where it seems like a lot of people recognize each other’s names repeatedly and have long-running beef and characterizations of each other, but I think I’ve made five comments ever before this panel, and it’s certainly the first time I’ve come back later to reply.
And the on-edgeness of people’s replies feels like it’s getting projected onto my reply.
This is the process by which Dina tries to understand things she finds confusing. If I phrased it that way, it would be awful. For Dina, it is not awful and puts the control of how things proceed back in Becky’s court.
Come on, Dina, even if Becky did lose her faith in God after watching Amber get her shit kicked in too many times that would be a terrible thing to say.
Can anyone spare a little help for a reader without much social sonar? I can’t parse what Dina is saying in the last two panels. Can anyone help me understand what Dina is referring to?
Is Dina saying Becky doesn’t want to talk about her trauma because Becky understands Dina is rightfully preoccupied with caring for Amber?
Is Dina saying that seeing Amber’s injuries may have caused Becky to regret that Becky’s prior faith in God had clouded Becky’s insight into Amber’s problems up to that point?
“If you’re trying to stop from putting another thing on my plate when you think I might be stressed for Amber, don’t worry, this is pretty normal.” Then the last panel is her wondering if she’s misjudged, and going “there was uncertainty there, but I’m not sure if I read you right now.” The alt text is influencing my read of the last panel, as well
When Dina says “You did emphasise maybe”, I believe it means that ‘Amber is hurt is the thing you didn’t maybe want to talk about and that’s what’s making you not believe in god. But Amber has always gotten hurt before, and she had been getting hurt even in the times you didn’t notice – your god isn’t just not real NOW.’
I want to try a third read. in panel four Dina says “For YOU to arrive at such a position suggests a considerable new trauma”. Then she (hopefully?) suggests that it’s because of Amber’s injury, but she knows that the only thing with that emotional destructiveness is Becky’s feeling towards Joyce. Which could have dreadful impact on Dina’s life.
Half of the reading experience of DoA is waiting for shit to hit the fan and the other half is the characters either suffering because of it or cleaning up afterwards. My point is this is really tense
Wow, people are really aggressive towards both of them tonight.
Becky can’t just erase her feelings for Joyce; she does not deserve to be condemned because she is struggling with those feelings.
Dina is not trying to dismiss Becky’s beliefs with saying she is happy Becky might not believe in a god anymore. Dina is pleased not because she’s “right” about religion; she is potentially happy because she has seen the pain religion has caused, especially for Becky, and it seems the thought of Becky not being hurt anymore by them is a positive in Dina’s eyes.
Neither of them are being bad people; they’re dealing with complicated emotions, beliefs, and relationships. Please take a deep breath, and wait for more info before you come down on either one.
Letting go of a prior limerent object or obsessive former crush – especially where trauma bonding is involved – is HARD HARD HARD.
I’m deeply in love with my lifemate but still have trouble not thinking about the past. It’s like, “Banish all thought of pink elephants from your mind!”
The neurons that fire together wire together, and if all one’s oxytocin and dopamine and endorphins and serotonin and norepinephrine and cortisol are all bound up in the image of the person who shared one’s good times and bad since one’s childhood… it’s just so hard to let go of that and move on. Living with the omnipresent past can feel like being stuck under a rock. Not being able to stop remembering the idealized fantasy one once yearned for.
No matter how beautiful the sunshine and flowers on the other side of that rock might be in the present.
Yeah Dina’s being very wary and aware this isnt a healthy shifting in beleiefs. Becky is making her heartbreak NOT Joyces problem; “this person COULD NEVER love me” was a different heartbreak then “she can love a woman, just not you”. And like. thats gonna feel bad. theyre both doin rough.
It’s possible she’s more concerned about the pain religion has caused Becky, but what she says is “a position of no deities is correct”. She seems to be talking about Becky coming to the right position on religion, not about any harm it may have caused.
Based on what Dina has said she believes that Becky’s belief in a god is directly harmful to her; Becky has shown guilt about sex with Dina because of her religious beliefs. Dina mentioned to Joe that her intimacy with Becky has caused Becky to have a breakdown at least once.
I don’t know the exact strip, but it was the discussion with Joe where he asked her about dating/having sex with someone who has recently become non-fundie.
I believe Dina considers any religion, belief in god, or a higher power, belief in magic, or the supernatural, to be harmful. Whether, or not that’s the case is up for debate, but that seems to be Dina’s line of thinking. So hearing Becky is on the right position now would mean she will be less harmed by her own beliefs. Is that actually the case? No, it’s more complicated than that, but I have faith that what Dina says she says with the best of intentions because she genuinely, and deeply, cares for Becky.
The scientifically correct number of deities isn’t zero, it’s to point out that the definition of deities/gods is so woolly as to make the question impossible to even begin to meaningfully answer. Therefore, much like 1 divided by 0, the numerical result is undefined.
I’m not clear how the mapping of the geometrical point at infinity of the complex plane to a defined point on the Riemann sphere corresponds to the expression 1/0 in any algebraic number system. I mean, it may do so, but I’d be interested in which algebra.
First one must rigorously define “deity”. Until that’s done, it’s going to be a matter of faith, not knowledge. (Yes, even for atheism – it may be more logically supportable, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.)
Dina you shouldn’t be pedantic about language when trying to empathize with people (learned that the hard way) but I think in this case you’re doing the right thing
Hey look at that, Becky is aware this would be a lot to tell her Current Girlfriend! Is it. good? Shes not talking to her about it? Probably not! Maybe? Maybe we should get Leslie for this one. Is there a code alert for life destroying emotional response inducing lesbian life drama.
I would rother see Becky channel all her negative emotions into getting absolutely jacked. Buff Becky is the only thing that can salvage this situation.
And in comes Dina with the wisdom to recognize when something’s very wrong! I was a bit worried that she’d just focus on the “There is no God,” bit – but she’s concerned about her girlfriend, and knows Becky well enough to know that this is very out of character for her.
Becky needs to talk through this, and Dina’s the one person who, despite not really understanding the social side of it, can help her reason through what happened and process the emotions from what happened in a more healthy way – probably the best in the cast. Booster would have more knowledge, but his tendency to squee at others’ drama would hamper his ability to help much, Leslie would try to be understanding, but doesn’t really have the best track record on helping with relationships, and Robin? Hoo, boy, would that conversation be a mess. Dina’s autism will help her cut through the BS and help Becky work through the issues that she’s having – which is exactly what she needs right now. Yes, it’s putting stuff on Dina that she doesn’t deserve – but Dina cares about her girlfriend, and would genuinely see the self destructive spiral that Becky would otherwise go through as the much, MUCH worse thing to have to deal with.
Mmmmm I think it’s more nuanced than that. That’s definitely a part of it, but there’s also the fact that the girl Joyce is in love with reciprocated those feelings, and I’d also say especially witnessing Joyce’s dad trying to be supportive as opposed to how Becky’s dad tried to handle the situation. Joyce- who fell out of the religion they both grew up in- is getting everything Becky ever wanted. Becky is feeling betrayed by god because the one that stopped believing in him is the one “being rewarded.”
I wonder if we end up finding out this isn’t as much about “Joyce kissed a girl” as a lot of people think, and more about “Becky kicked into full on PTSD oh-shit-joyce-is-mortal-danger-because-father-is-here-and-he-knows” and then it turned out to just be a dud. And it just reminds Becky that all the stress and pain and the danger she suffered wasn’t because of god, or church, it’s always been 100% her father being a monster.
People say she was being “a good friend” for trying to distract Hank, but I really think her motivation was much less “wacky hijinks to block discomfort” and much more “if I don’t do this Joyce is going to die”, and so far nobody in the comic seems to have considered that Becky isn’t jealous or hurt by Joyce/Dorothy, she’s panicking and/or dissociating because of how dangerous it feels to her to have a father realize they have a gay daughter. And how much is burns to know it’s not a universal truth, it’s just *her* life and *her* dad causing it.
Yeah, that’s the read I got on why Becky was jumping in too. Not that it was going to amount to anything regardless of how you cut it – but it is still admirable that she would jump in to try to protect her friend right in the middle of hurting so much.
That’s probably why she jumped in to protect people’s closets, but it’s not why she’s spent the last five months trying to pry Joyce and Dorothy apart. Sometimes literally.
But also, she’s been aware of Becky’s lingering feelings for this whole time. I think people are vastly overestimating how hurtful she’s going to find it.
Are y’all going to get tired of me saying I love the facial expressions in this?
Too bad, because all of Dina’s are so good!
I especially like the differences between panels 3 & 4. Going from happy/concerned to 100% concerned and nailing it.
(Genuinely though, if it actually does feel like I’m spamming, I will stop.)
Not just 18, but still reeling from a recent (granted, irrational – but feelings aren’t exactly known for being the most rational things ever) emotional blow that she hasn’t processed yet. She’s behaving exactly how I would expect someone to behave given those parameters. Not intelligently, not with abundant wisdom, but with heart and passion – and putting what she feels others need over what she knows she needs for herself.
Dina being great autistic representation once again, because, yes, we actually can read social situations pretty well a lot of the time, we just rely on different metrics than most people.
I was just thinking last week about how many people profess to love Jocelyne, who we really don’t know much about yet and who hasn’t done all that much.
Folks were also very taken with Becky early on, about up until she got a haircut.
And we do love Dina, until she does something like be annoyed that Joyce had autism suggested to her by a medical professional without even having to ask, while Dina has struggled to have the possibility be taken seriously even when she and her parents are actively saying “look this is a thing we think she has”.
(That last bit is honestly not at all unusual with medical professionals generally by the way. A lot of doctors will be MUCH more on board with literally any diagnosis if you can get them to think it was their idea instead of yours. There are so many tips being passed around online that emphasize the benefit of telling a doctor that you’re only bothering them because SOMEONE ELSE in your life, especially a white man if you can swing it but anyone who isn’t you, won’t leave you alone until you have a doctor check for xyz. Doctors really by and large don’t seem to like it when patients self-diagnose.)
Also: I’m not saying any individual person is bad for not liking Dina in this strip. It is morally neutral to dislike characters!
I just think that we, collectively, seem to get very attached to diverse characters in the abstract, but we, collectively, seem to have very low tolerance for those characters being at all unpleasant.
It just doesn’t seem to take much for “best girl” to become “man what a bongo”.
I wonder if much of that phenomenon could be explained by people with milder opinions not wanting to engage with the wilder takes and therefore just not posting. I know I burn out on this comment section -very- quickly these days, and I’m mostly in the camp of “I like these characters, it’s neat to read about them”.
I think this is a flawed argument in a series where every character os some shade of minority. I feel like if I see people express vitriolic distaste for Walky constantly and nobody calls it racist or anything. It’s frustrating that it feels like we have to “justify” not liking a character due to their status as “representation”. I think carla kinda sucks as a person. She’s rude, condescending and narcissistic. And I just don’t find her “bit” all that funny. But I just don’t bring it up cuz I’m sick of being called a transphobe by terminally online jerks. People probably latch on to Jocelyne more cuz she’s trans rep who’s main trait isn’t being a jerk.
I’m not saying there’s not a history of people being completely biasrd unfair to the minority group characters. But basically if you so much as imply you don’t like one of those characters people looooove to lump you in with bad actors. I like Becky more now than her introduction cuz she’s no longer obnoxious about how gay she is (usually). I like JOE more now that he’s got a personality more than “hurr hurrr women hot”. I think Joyce and Dorothy are lame couple that happens at the expense of a much better couple and I dislike it. I also thought Walky and Lucy were a lame couple that came at the expense of a much better couple. But I get so much less pushback on the second opinion I just straight up don’t talk about it nearly as much.
This wasn’t aimed at you, and I specifically said it’s fine to dislike characters. I’m sorry you got piled on.
None of which means I’m not bracing myself for Jocelyne evincing an actual personality and a lot of people immediately turning on her.
I feel like people have put a lot of #representation eggs in her basket and they’re going to be disappointed when it turns out that she isn’t the exact character they specifically wanted her to be.
Unfortunately the only way to get the exact character you specifically want is to start writing your own stories.
I love most of the characters in this series, in part BECAUSE of how so many of them are genuinely well-meaning dinguses. Despite finding Joyce’s antics annoying in relation to blocking Jocelyne’s coming out (and I still wish we’d gotten to that before swapping away to someone else), I still enjoyed the shenanigans because they’re part of what I love about the character. These aren’t all perfect flawless caricatures spouting off jokes – they’re flawed, they make mistakes (sometimes serious mistakes), and they have emotions that make them do things that aren’t logically sound in the moment. That keeps the story fun and interesting, and keeps me looking forward to the chaos that comes with the next update.
People are talking a lot about Becky being upset over Joyce not loving her in the same way but I think there’s a big element that isn’t being talked about as much: Becky being upset that Joyce’s father will begrudgingly accept her instead of trying to murder her over it.
There’s also Becky just, struggling to accept change which has been shown several times with her anxieties over the fluidity of gender and sexuality earlier. There’s just a lot more to unpack than just “girl I liked doesn’t like me but likes other girl.”
Clarification: I don’t mean Becky wants Joyce’s father to hate her, just that there’s likely an irrational feeling of unfairness given how awful the situation turned out for Becky when she came out.
Becky doesn’t deal well with change, and here she is in the wake of life-uprooting levels of change.
-her best friend is gay
-but not for her
-dorothy the “rival” is also gay
-with aforementioned best friend
-proving sexualities can change over time
-she actually might not be a lesbian some day, it’s possible
-joyce’s father is everything she can’t have in a family
This is a tough pill for any kid to swallow and we already saw her before the party struggling with suicidal ideation and when Jocelyne visited she had to deal with the concept of gender fluidity.
Though this comment has nothing to do with today’s events, when searching for how Becky and Dina began a relationship I came across the last two panels of the below and smiled (regarding recent Walky-Dorothy-Joyce interactions).
So I just realized that because I crashed earlier than 11 last night I ended up missing the new strip, damn wish I’d been around to talk in the comments about this one, oh well
Also sorry I’ve been scarce and sorry for the snarky comment earlier. Job hunt has reached a level of desperation where I’m just. Applying to retail jobs. And knowing I’m not a great candidate for that because I haven’t worked retail in 15 years and I have limited availability because I’m trying to get my B.S. at the same time. Plus healthcare premiums next year will just be “I can’t afford that”.
Everything’s hard and scary.
I know I’m not alone in feeling that way.
Let’s all be gentler with each other? We’re all going through it right now.
I honestly don’t think you should apologize for being snarky, the vast majority of people here are, and yiu are easily one of the nicest and most patient ones around here so i think yous should fell free ti snark occasionally like everyone else.
If I were Willis I would have called it “relief” rather than “joy”, but yah it’s a relief when you have to constantly cope with someone’s contradictory opinion and suddenly they’re not contradictory. Kind of bewildering too because it’s not in their character. Dina’s just being straightforward.
The main thing with Dina here, though, is she doesn’t know yet about Joyce and Dorothy. Amber getting injured while fighting cops is the main story she knows about, and Dina sees Dorothy and now Becky acting in ways that don’t fit. Even if she knew I think she’d roll her eyes and point out Amber’s situation is more significant.
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“oscillating between joy and concern”
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah @_@
literally the only sensible response
hopefully they wouldn’t break up over this
A lot more concern than joy, hopefully.
I bet Becky wishes she could be oscillating near Joy…
Dina is all of us right now. ~<3
Poor Dina. She doesn’t deserve this…
It’s a conversation that needs to happen, though. I hope they both realize that the past is the past and they are each other’s future.
From Becky, a character so paralyzingly afraid of anyone growing or changing that she loses faith in God because Joyce grew and considers suicide at just the thought of herself ever growing/changing? Gonna get worse before anything gets better.y
Yup.
don’t break her heart Becky.
“I just know something BAD is going to happen…” T~T
I … I know its Halloween season, but I really didn’t expect to remember what it was like to be afraid of the dark tonight.
There is neither time nor place in all the black infinity of existence that should bear witness to such nightmares as that.
afraid of the dark? speak for yourself!!! I went to a lake in the middle of the night a couple days ago just to get pictures of the full hunter moon with zero light pollution
of course that walking meant through more spider webs than I cared for and my feet being covered in nidocaine after a long day of hiking, worth it tho
*minimal light pollution
What is nidocaine? It doesn’t sound like something natural, like spider webs, so I am imagining…. sore feet cream/spray???
*lidocaine
dammit i hate typos
i figured it was a brand name
Nidocaine evolves from Nidorina during a full moon, but only if it has the Naughty nature.
Nah, Valentine’s Day is the dreaded holiday around here.
well, even if they break up over it, idk if it means she’d be able to get over joyce again to try another partner
I love autism.
Sure, there are lots of characters with powerful emotional development. But only one Dina who rocks emotional development in a dinosaur hat.
🥺🦖
*plays “Soft Light” from Super Paper Mario*
Becky, you’ve got the best girlfriend. Don’t hurt her.
Autistically verbalizing the situation
I know it well
Also cause I dont think this comic does thought bubbles
I feel like I’ve seen thought bubbles years ago, but I’m not sure, and don’t have any idea where to look.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2025/comic/book-15/02-the-one-where-jocelyne-returns/coincidence-2/
I think the one where Joyce is psyching herself up to touch Joe’s penis with her thigh is thought bubbles as well
Also Dina had a whole chapter called “walking with Dina” where she got thought bubbles (and Becky got one bubble). It was the chapter where they officially got together. Where she lead toe dad away from the school and put him on a bus to the mall
She actually put him on a bus to Indianapolis after telling him it was the bus to the mall, which is much funnier.
Dina is adorable in every panel of this strip. Especially panels 3 and 4. Her understated–comparatively to characters like Joyce, or admittedly Dina herself in panel 1– but incredibly emotive expressions are so good.
She better get space to express her concerns about Becky’s reaction. So adorable to see them supportive and sweet to each other, and I’m not one to immediately assume the worst of Becky for having a tough moment, but Dina gets to have her own questions or concerns about Becky, and Becky’s reaction, too.
This is probably gonna make someone mad, and I don’t really even mean this as criticism, but joy seems kind of weird. Yay you agree with me, I’m thrilled? A’ight.
Maybe it’s because I’m a pagan who views the existence of deities as entirely irrelevant to most people’s lives, but I’m not really imagining myself feeling joy if somebody came to me agreeing with like, my political positions or favorite pizza toppings either. (Hell, I’d probably be irrationally jealous if I had to share my pineapple mushroom deep pan crust.)
Dina is allowed to feel however she wants and whatever, I just don’t get it.
If I had to hazard a guess at empathy, it’s likely due to how beliefs in magic are unscientific and promote erroneous views of the world. Remember, Dina has always expressed pain when people state as facts things that are not true. So many of her interactions with Joyce and Becky up until, like, 2018, were just Dina suffering as she learned what Christian/Fundees actually believed in.
Yeah, I suppose. I feel the same way about believing in capitalism and white-Victorian-rationalism fucking the world up but I guess like specifically if one of my loved ones believed in that shit I’d be happy if they stopped? I know I’ve worked pretty hard trying to get my bestie to drop some of the background-radiation cultural racism she retains from her Christian conservative days.
The joy might be less out of a sense of “hehe I’m right” and more glad that Becky is getting further and further away from the cult she was born into but I see what you mean. I think I’d consider that more relief (“Phew, my loved one is no longer brainwashed”) rather than joy (“Oh boy! Yay, my loved one is no longer brainwashed”).
Dina seems to have issues with magic, gods, and pseudo-science. She also recognizes that magical beliefs have caused Becky pain in the past, so she’s possibly joyful that those feelings are going away.
Joy because ‘yay you finally came to the correct assessment’ but also concern because she knows Becky didn’t believe for logical reasons but instead for emotional ones. Deeply personal, trauma based family loss reasons, critical emotional support reasons. Dina can’t feel what Becky does but she can recognize a person in pain.
Religion is probably a constant point of tension between them. We just don’t see a lot of these two, so it hasn’t been on-screen. They’re both very clear about everything that matters to them, so when Becky is regularly saying “God is Great” and Dina is saying “There is no god”, they’re both probably going to feel dismissed. Or they censor themselves, which isn’t fun.
There’s a lot of reasons Dina could feel joy that Becky is leaving Christianity behind, but that feels like an obvious one.
as an autistic person i think a lot of it may boil down to autistic black and white thinking where it can feel like, actively painful to know someone has a differing opinion over something than you do. which obviously is not a great thing, but it is an explanation to why she might be like yay! another reason might be that she can recognize that a lot of trauma becky has endured is related to religion, and seeing her come ‘out’ of it a little bit feels like a good step, even if it might not be being expressed well. (again, autism!)
Nah you’re right. I’ve only ever dated atheists, but the ones who talked about my beliefs like “how nice for you even though you’re wrong” were always super alienating. Dina is gonna be Dina, and it’s not like Becky was in a solid place theologically to begin with, but it’s a very condescending way to talk about religion. With your PARTNER!!
personally I agree, and it’s why I’d never find myself in serious relationship with a non-atheist. But the dialogue seems pretty realistic to me.
I’m thrilled every time one of my acquaintances or friends leaves religion, but I’m also concerned at what’s bringing them there, if it’s trauma and disappointment at the world rather than merely changing worldviews in the face of new evidence, because I don’t want anybody to want to experience traumas that leed to existential disappointment.
Out of curiosity, how would you like someone in that position to react?
As an atheist who thinks religions have been far more harmful than good for the world, I tend to feel a little happy when people I’m close to and people I care about in general express skepticism of religious ideas. Similarly, I tend to feel happy when more people express criticism of harmful capitalist ideas.
I do too. It’s hard for me to see a case where a magical world view can be anything but harmful. Is it ok for people to live happily in a delusional state?
We need a shared reality for democracy to work, for one.
This seems kind of awkward to me. I’m not comfortable with the evangelical approach, even when it’s applied to atheism. Especially when it’s tied to a “for the good of the state” argument.
It’s not really a slippery slope at the moment, given that atheists completely lack the political power to act on such ideas, other than on a personal level, where it’s just annoying.
You nailed it.
I get annoyed when the mentality of “MY belief is right, yours is wrong so that makes YOU wrong” is somehow OK because it’s an atheist saying it.
To quote an old 90s Cartoon “What you do with your life is your own affair, so long as its got nothing to do with me.”
It’s not evangelical to hope that people change their minds of their own volition.
It’s not, but the “need a shared reality” and “delusional state” where what crossed the line for me.
I mean… not to sound flip, but literally everyone lives “in a delusional state” if you use that to refer to being wrong about things, which… is also not what a delusion is or why delusions are harmful. As someone who’s done a lot of work unpacking the shit I grew up with- both cultural and trauma-related issues- it really annoys me when people use that argument because like, buddy, you’re literally expressing a fundamental misunderstanding of how sanity works. Is it okay for you to live happily while believing that? It’s not only wrong, it’s probably hurting you and others around you a hell of a lot more than the average someone who, I dunno, believes in ghosts or something.
If we need a shared reality for democracy to work, we’re kind of fucked as a species, because religion is a function of culture and culture is a function of us being primates in sufficient numbers, and I don’t think that’s true anyway.
Lots of bad things are functions of culture; as time passes, we try to change culture to have fewer of them. I see no reason to think that organized religion couldn’t eventually be one of the things we leave behind.
It could be, but when I say religion is a function of culture, I mean that defining what’s religion and what’s not religion isn’t nearly as simple as it sounds like from the perspective of a culture that divides the “secular” from the “sacred” as neatly as we try to. Not only do not all cultures do that, both perspectives are equally arbitrary. We can’t “get rid of the supernatural” even if it is all bullshit because the definition of religion can’t not be squiffy, and the definition of the supernatural that we currently use is a tautology.
like, there’s religion as personal/spiritual thing where one wants to be with and act on values which are important to them, which will continued to be acted upon a long time into distant, distant future, far long after one ceases to live
and there’s religion as an authoritarian institution for controlling people, even at the expense of denying material truths which otherwise could have a positive benefit to all our lives
when people in US English speaking spheres refer to themselves being against the latter as being “anti-religious”,
what they ACTUALLY mean is that they are against institutional religion and religious authoritarianism
that this is their impression of what ALL religion is like period says a lot less about all religion itself and more about how (mostly white) US folk come from a country/culture so thoroughly informed by toxic, over-represented, authoritarian Christian belief systems to the point to which ANY religion looks suspicious to them
and if it really needs to be said
you can very much be religious and not believe in deities
Shinto/Buddhists don’t believe in gods the very same way westerners do, and it’s for this reason that a majority of them count as atheists, just to name one of many examples
i mean, generally speaking, i also don’t align with the former – I’m a materialist – and I vaguely think the world would be better without spirituality even. I just don’t spend much time thinking about it because the latter is destroying the world.
You also don’t need religion as such to have authoritarian institutions for controlling people. Other ideologies can play essentially the same role.
There’s a good argument that communism in Soviet Russia did so or Maoism in particular in China.
We’ve seen lots of examples of her interactions with Joyce, in which “because my religion says so” justifies some anti-science that actually infuriate her. While Becky has been slowly learning science and letting go of bad beliefs, I imagine letting go of the core that holds all those beliefs together will get her there a lot faster (no longer having to do mental gymnastics to work things into the existent framework), and Dina is glad she won’t have to watch those gymnastics play out anymore (for herself, and for Beckys sake).
Becky hasn’t been particularly slow about learning science especially. I don’t think we’ve ever seen her struggling with it or even dealing with it all since the initial scenes with Dina last semester. Certainly not anywhere near the emphasis we’ve seen with Joyce, even after she deconverted.
The only thing we’ve seen her struggle with at all was premarital sex and she’s well past that now.
You know, it’s possible to believe in a deity while still believing that the sciences, which uncover the truth of reality, are part of His showing us the wonders of His work. Evangelical Protestantism isn’t the only religion, or even the only Christian religion.
Oh no I feel like this is about to end in tears from one of them; if not both of them.
Is there any good way for this to go?
yes with patience, active listening, and open honest communication. there may still be tears, but it should hopefully lead to them growing closer
And if there’s two people who could get over this potential disaster, it’s these two.
Imagine if it was, say Billie and Ruth.
By the way, I genuinely enjoy that Dina is so emotive specifically with Becky. Like she truly unmasks. Pleeeeeeease let Becky continue to be her safe emotional place
Emotions are not always rational. Becky is allowed to feel devastated by this particular turn of events (the dating and Hank’s reactions) even if she’s happy in her relationships otherwise. Dina is emotionally intelligent enough to understand this and hopefully won’t feel insecure if they do talk it out, which Becky really needs to do to process.
I don’t think this will result in a break up. Becky’s hangup is the time she spent pining and hoping for Joyce and coping with the rejection as “Joyce isn’t Gay or Bi” and being fine since it was impossible. Becky finding out with WAS possible all along she just wasn’t enough to cause it to happen is devastating because it reflects on her as a person. Dina would get that and probably use the “one door closed so another opens” analogy to get Becky to focus on what they have as opposed to what she missed to help her truly heal from it.
I feel that Becky thinking that she “wasn’t enough” for Joyce to realize that she could be attracted to women is a correct reading of Becky’s point of view. I do think that it is an incorrect reading of Joyce, though. When Becky kissed Joyce, Joyce had never considered the possibility that she might be attracted to girls. Speculating about whether Joyce might have had romantic feelings for Becky, or that Joyce just wasn’t ever going to have romantic feelings for Becky, had she been open to them at that time is just that – speculation.
Clarification – an incorrect reading of Joyce by Becky, not you
welp time to watch becky finally have to go through character development. it sucks, but it comes for us all.
You must have a strange definition of character development if you don’t think she has go through it before now
I do not know how to name the emotion seen in panel 3, but Willis really captures that expression.
It’s like Joyful, sad, compassionate, encouraging pity maybe? I don’t it seems to be both one feeling and like 5 superglued together.
Foreboding joy perhaps, or possibly just love? The latter is already a mix of emotions.
honest empathy
like that is the face of pure empathy.
huuuuug
Yeahhhh not the best way to start your concern, Dina
Mmmmmmaybe this is the autism in me understanding the autism in Dina, but…yeah no I do understand why she phrased it like that. To not preface it like that would feel, well, a bit emotionally dishonest, were I in her place. Because she does understand that this is a bad thing, and that’s shown in the rest of the panels, but to not acknowledge in some way that this is something she’s wanted to hear from her girlfriend for a while would feel like a lie. idk. Does anyone get what I mean here?
It’s something I wouldn’t say to someone I was less close with, I’d figure out a more socially acceptable response, but those who understand me best and I don’t have to mask around? Yeah
Now that I’ve sent that message, I actually don’t remember if Dina is explicitly autistic or just has vibes. So, adjust previous post as necessary
explicitly; it came up in Joyce’s autism discovery arc
Oh sweet, thank you!
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/thatbad/
She explicitly said she tried go get a diagnosis in the past but doctors just said her problems because of “English as second language” or some such despite her being born in America.
She is! When that doctor first told Joyce she might be autistic, there was a bit about Dina being frustrated how easy it was for Joyce when it was such a struggle for herself to get diagnosed (mostly due to racism).
For me, it’s about as good as Ethan’s mother saying she’ll allow Ethan to be gay.
Given your reply right under this, forgive me if I don’t believe you’re engaging with this comic in good faith. Do you really think Dina is saying “I’m so happy!” here? Genuinely?
Seconded the not believing this is in good faith.
right, if Dina were doing what some commenters think she’s doing, she’d gloss past the “concerns” part and just celebrate the transition and ask no follow-up questions
How do you figure? I think Dina is making a poorly timed statement based on her own biases.
Not out of malice.
If a friend of yours was a flat-earther and one day decided he was no longer a flat earther, wouldn’t you be happy about it?
Which is kind of why I said it wasn’t a good response. If you view them and their beliefs as utter nonsense, you have a big problem in your relationship.
Dina has her bias, which is a problem they need to address.
I hope they do as it’s a cute couple.
I guess we believe the same thing about this, which is that if one person in a relationship views the other’s beliefs as utter nonsense, you have a big problem in you relationship.
And Dina clearly feels that way about Becky, and I think it’s a problem they need to address. I just think Dina’s right and they should break up (in the sense that any fictional characters “should” do anything, since after all, they’re not real people).
yes, i completely agree here. i think her reaction is appropriate – acknowledging her deeper agreement with Becky’s stated position while providing support to her girlfriend. Neither negates the other. She doesn’t want Becky to go down the wrong path but it is probably correct to view such a sudden statement with concern, i think.
I totally agree with you. It was so obvious to me that this is right course of action that I didn’t consciously noticed it. But yes. She wanted for Becky not believe in God , because that’s not real, so of course that brings her joy. But she sees Becky’s emotions and can read them as something to be concerned about. Both of these emotions are real for her and she cannot censor herself to not express them. That wouldn’t be healthy for her nor the relationship.
To whitstand one or the other would be lie
“I am suffering an obvious life altering crisis.”
“I’m so happy!”
That’s not what Dina is saying; she’s expressing happiness that Becky might be moving past something that has caused her pain, but she also recognizes that Becky’s beliefs changing so drastically must be from something painful.
She didn’t say that? She said she’s swinging between two emotions and clearly focused on the one that’s concern?
That’s certainly an interpretation of what Dina said. It’s not a very accurate interpretation.
“Joyce and Becky kissed so there is no Lesbian God! Even worse…Hank accepted it with only some questions about whether they were commies. Which is ludicrous. They don’t believe in seizing the means of production, that’s my thing!”
Are you doing a Taffy? ‘Cos I don’t think you are serious!
For someone who invokes my name a lot lately, you sure don’t seem to get my vibe.
What does it take to invoke your name? I want to know in case I get bored one day 😛
You make it kind of difficult to “get your vibe” honestly.
That’s why Dad loves me more than he loves you.
I think the vibe is supposed to be ‘allergic to sincerity’.
I’m sincere plenty of the time. People choose not to see that.
That doesn’t remotely sound like Taffy, they didn’t mention finding Jennifer hot as fuck like ONCE.
I’d more likely mention Alice, Ruth, or Malaya. Billie is fine and all, but
It’s just me making a joke.
Becky being upset is understandable but I was trying to do it in Margot Robbie’s Barbie voice.
🙂
This is weirdo behavior.
It’s so easy not to engage with Taffy if you’re bothered by them, there’s no need to call their name out in a conversation thread they hadn’t even engaged in yet.
It’s weird how much space I seem to take up in some people’s minds, compared to how little I actually post.
The life of an internet celebrity, I guess.
I think the weirdest I’ve gotten so far is someone saying they wanted to “ask me questions later” and that they maybe owed me an apology. Don’t know them at all, never did get the questions lmao.
Sorry you have to put up with it so much.
If I’m any kind of celebrity, it’s news to me. And a little fuckin’ premature, since I haven’t even sold one song.
Ah, yes. I believe it was with respect to giving the land back to the native Americans. I was uncertain to whether you had made a remark about comments I had made under the impression that I was talking about some situations where management of lands had been returned to native Americans, which seems to me in many circumstances quite possibly a reasonable thing to do, though I have little or no information as to when or under what circumstances this may have actually occurred or been proposed or whether you were referring to what I actually had in mind, which was everyone of European descent returning to Europe and giving the land back to the native Americans – a thing which is not happening. In any case, I am interested in any information or relevant links you could give me.
The context in which this occurred was me attempting to call out the blatant hypocrisy of Americans who justify/condone violence against people they consider to be living on stolen land while conveniently ignoring that we are living on what is essentially stolen land. And not too much essentially about it. I was exasperated and quite likely was not as careful with my language as I should have been. I didn’t want to discuss it further until the immediate heat of the moment had dies down. However, it was not my intent to belittle native Americans in any way, nor to reflect negatively on any effort to return control of any particular public lands to native Americans, a subject on which I am woefully ignorant. To whatever extent I appeared to be doing so, I am honestly sorry.
If I’ve somehow confused you with someone else, I apologize about that as well. So that was it, but I would appreciate any information you could point me at.
Oh come on, Taffy. You know you’re DOA Comment Page famous. Which is like being Internet famous, but not as good.
I don’t remember the conversation, but it mirrors a conversation I have a few times a week as a native person.
I encourage you to do your own research, look up the Landback movement, and educate yourself about it from indigenous-led sources/websites. I’m not going to be talking about it at length here or providing links today as I’m not very big on running legwork for people I don’t know unless I’m in a specific mood.
It’s awesome you’re interested, I hope you find good info on it.
Landback movement. Thank you. That should be sufficient.
Awesome!
I’m gonna spend the rest of the night failing to think of a “Pile of Lesbos” pun for “seizing the means of production” and either it doesn’t exist or it’s really really obvious and I’ll feel like a dolt
Well, coochies are a means of (re)production…
…always ask politely before seizing one, though!
They’re one of the only ways humans can really make more of ourselves, IMHO.
I would be very surprised if any characters in this comic believed in seizing the means of production. And I’m not sure which character you’re imagining saying this stuff.
Becky is by no means an actual communist nor would identify as such but I’m sure Hank would consider her politics left of center.
She seemed pretty lefty when she was hijacking Robin’s Twitter and arguing with Roz about who was leftier, but probably not a full-on communist, no.
I too wish to seize the means of production and keep all the goodies for myself.
You know, as long as it’s not too much work.
Thanks to influence from A Different Comic™ during my formative years, I probably would’ve said “vacillating”.
Aw man. I get where Dina is coming from in trying to be comforting but “bad things happen regardless of whether you notice them” is probably NOT going to be super comforting to Becky right now.
Becky blames herself for her mother’s death in part because she didn’t notice, and she copes by telling herself that she WILL look and notice from now on, because will change something. I’m sure the philosophy is something she clings to for a lot of other things too, and might just make her feel powerless/pointless.
I mean “God’s not real cuz Joyce likes another woman and it’s not ME so it’s not that she wasn’t gay, it was me that was the problem”
Won’t be that comforting/nice either
Bleh. I don’t really like Dina in this strip.
Why? She doesn’t know literally anything about what just happened with Becky….and we knew she was an athiest.. what is she doing that’s so unlikeable here? Expressing that she’s torn between two emotions and acknowledged that Becky must have gone through something to get through something…
I am confused.
I’m an agnostic Atheist. I’ve been an agnostic atheist my entire life. If someone came to me and told me they’re giving up or moving on from religion I wouldn’t ever phrase it as “ah yes. You’ve made the correct choice. My way of looking at the world is correct. The idea that there is no deities is the right one” It’s reddit atheist shit.
This. Fucking thiiiiiiiis. Regardless of Dina’s view of religion, it’s an important part of Becky’s core identity. Like, I do think it’s funny that when Becky was really upset when she caught Joyce making fun of Christianity, she was like “Dina doesn’t do that behind my back!” and it’s like… that you know of, Becky. Because she definitely has, you just haven’t caught her in the act.
When has Dina made fun of Becky behind her back? I don’t remember that happening.
She’s made fun of religion behind Becky’s back. Not of Becky specifically, but then Joyce wasn’t intending to do that either.
I don’t think Dina has done the “believers are dumb” thing Joyce did that really hurt Becky, but the two of them have a very different context for that, since a lot of what Joyce meant was “I was dumb for believing”, which wouldn’t apply to Dina.
Ah, then I can see why you’d take issue with this, but I guess it’s only natural that Dina as a human was bound to have her own moments of fuckuppery eh?
Thanks for explaining though, I was genuinely curious.
@Yotomoe as someone who was baptised Catholic, was agnostic most of my life before becoming pagan, I really appreciate this.
Go raibh maith agat (Thank you in Irish)
I think that reading is ignoring about three quarters of Dina’s dialogue in this strip.
I don’t think any of the dialogue she says before or after she says that changes the context of that sentence.
Like yes she’s more worried about what this emotional response means for Becky means and wants to reassure and comfort her. But like…she still says “while a position of no deities is correct” which is the line I take umbrage with. It’s good she’s got enough depth to realize Becky’s statement means more than it lets on but she still had to pepper in “Believing there are no deities is the correct thing to believe”. I don’t like that.
I think it’s a fair setup to be like, “You’re saying something I agree with, but it’s still concerning.” Also helps limit deflection in the form of, “Hey, aren’t you happy I agree with you now?” Like, yeah, that’s covered, onto the concerning parts.
There is a subtle but I feel important difference between “I agree with this” and ” this is correct”. If the former is what Dina intended she chose her words poorly and I would say I still think she should be more mindful.
Much as I like Dina, that line irked me too.
Also on a pedantic level. There’s no way to disprove every possible imaginable deity, after all. Come on, Dina, you’re scientifically minded — you know this.
In fact, please show me even a single piece of evidence against the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
There’s no way to prove or disprove anything, if we’re being maximally pedantic. Nevertheless we all are obligated to exist in and interact with reality, so we use words like “true” and “correct” for things which are, philosophically speaking, close enough.
Fair enough (to feel how you feel about it), but I also don’t fault her much for not phrasing it perfectly when put on the spot. I also see it as more her direct style of communication, which is something that will rub people the wrong way sometimes.
Generally people believe things because they believe they’re correct, do they not?
Having to provide evidence to disprove things for which there is no evidence is the wrong paradigm. That’s whole point of hypotheticals like the FSM or more philosophically, Russell’s Teapot.
Out of curiosity, is it that you dislike Dina for thinking that at all, or just for saying so out loud? My feeling is that in very close relationships it’s better to be honest about sincere beliefs than to attempt to minimize friction. If I believe something that my partner thinks is fundamentally incorrect, I’d much rather know about it than have them hide it.
Moreso the latter than the former. For example. I don’t believe in God. But I do know belief in God is important to people. And I’m not conceited enough to say I know with absolute certainty that there are no gods. Which is why I say “I don’t believe in God.” Rather than “God doesn’t exist.” Similarly I find it irksome when people say “God exists therefore…” Rather than “I believe in God, therefore…”
For a more pedantic example I strongly feel like the movie version of sonic the hedgehog is a poor adaptation of the character. But I know lots of people like that version. So I rarely say “movie sonic sucks” ( outside of when I’m choosing to be an asshole). I say “I really really don’t like movie sonic.”
I would find dinas comment infinitely more favorable if she had said “while I agree there are no deities…” Rather than claiming it to be “correct”
this just seems like complete pedantry. We say things are correct all the time that we can’t prove, and in fact, we treat this as totally normal behavior. If somebody gets a trivia question correct on a game show, the host says “correct, 400 points”, not “I believe this to be true, and it aligns with the current consensus, so we’re granting you provisional points that we might revoke at a later time”
Now, for completely subjective things that don’t really have a truth value like whether or not a movie is “good”, sure, makes sense to say “I don’t like X” as opposed to “X sucks” (although, people say things like “best movie of all time” or “great movie” or “it was an ok movie” all the time, and again, it seems like ridiculous pedantry to critique that language)
Your post is just…agreeing with me. I think this topic IS completely subjective cuz nobody knows whether or not it’s true. It IS completely subjective. There’s no “general consensus” cuz a huge amount of people have mixed views on the existence of deities.
subjective doesn’t mean “we don’t know” or “the answer is unclear”. It means dealing with things that don’t have truth values, because they are just a matter of perspective. Whether or not an entity exists is something that has a truth value, however complicated or even impossible it is to be 100% certain about that truth value.
Whether or not god exists is a question with an objective answer, no matter how difficult or even impossible it is to determine that truth value. So it seems totally reasonably to talk about it just like we talk about other things with truth values.
yeah. i like her overall but that’s a really condescending and self centered line. i don’t think she was trying to be cruel, but still.
No one wants to hear this but Dina’s best in very small doses. If you had to deal with someone like her in real life she’d be unbearable.
Hard disagree. Which traits of hers precisely make you say that?
Yeah honestly I feel like I’ve always been uniquely immune to the charm Dina has over a lot of people. I often find her exhausting.
wow brave take to find the autistic character exhausting
I mean you immediately saying that to me for finding a fictional character exhausting is exactly why it’s a brave take.
Yeah it’s so cool how autism is a trait that only fictional characters have. Surely there are no real people who share the same traits you find exhausting in Dina.
How brave of you to speak truth to power like that.
Yeah it’s so cool how that’s not at all what I said and also how you assume me finding Dina, a fictional character exhausting means I find all autistic people exhausting. Surely I’m not allowed to take umbrage with any of her traits or personality or actions because autistic people are a monolith and all of them act the same forever and my dislike of literally any one specific autistic person, fictional or otherwise means I not only hate every single thing about her but also every single thing about every single autistic person on the planet.
That’s so cool. You’re so cool.
You’re exhausting too.
Please show me where I said you find all autistic people exhausting. I’m saying she’s exhibiting traits that are shared by many other autistic people. If you find that exhausting, well, your words not mine. What I was taking issue with was you saying that was in ANY way brave, and not an opinion shared and expressed by a lot of people, loudly and regardless of how it makes the people around them feel.
Thanks! I’d much rather be the kind of person you find exhausting than to be anything like you.
Lots of people of lots of different neurodivergences have lots of traits. You didn’t even ask me what I find exhausting about her. You just assumed it’s because she’s neurodivergent. You don’t even know if I AM NEURODIVERGENT. I DIDN’T EVEN START BY SAYING I’M BRAVE. I was sarcastically responding to someone else calling me brave for criticizing dina, who’s autism I didn’t even bring up in my complaints but everyone seems to think I have a problem with. You’re making blatant assumptions about me cuz you think I’m a bad person. You don’t know anything about me. You’re treating me like shit.
WHY DO YOU HATE ME? YOU DON’T KNOW ME? WHY ARE YOU BEING SO CRUEL?
FUCK sorry. That just. oh my god. That struck a serious nerve. I was probably being rude calling people exhausting.
But this whole conversation is exhausting. I’m exhausted. And spiraling. We’re all fucking exhausting tonight jesus.
Yes. That’s pretty much the distillation of my point. I hope your night gets less exhausting.
>stabs someone in the side unprovoked
>”I hope that stops bleeding”
That’s a wild way to characterize that conversation, but lately that’s been your MO in these comment sections, feels like. Anyway you have a less exhausting night too.
Seems apt.
Shiro, you made your point very badly. I still don’t know how that’s a “distillation of your point” even after having read the whole comment chain. I don’t know what your point is supposed to be.
Man, shut up.
Yeah, gonna kindly suggest you rethink this one. Speaking from the experience of growing up in a household full of neurodivergent family members and being one myself (in both cases, including autism), we are absolutely allowed to find each other exhausting at times. Sometimes I *love* gelling with other ADHD/Autistic people…and sometimes I find them exhausting. That’s not ableism: that’s being a human being without infinite reserves that is affected by those around me.
Now living as an adult with one of those family members still, we each take our times to say, “I love you…I need (X)” – quiet time, house to myself, lower noise, fewer distractions, less talking, etc. etc. etc. because we can find each other exhausting.
I love the fact that we can (usually) communicate about these needs out loud to each other…but when I notice either of us avoiding being truthful about how the other is affecting us, usually frustration and a blow up follows soon, unless we’re *open* and transparent (with admittedly varying levels of tactfulness) about how we’re feeling and what we need.
Edit: “I love you…BUT I need (x).”
As a definitely-not-neurotypical fellow myself, I can confirm both ways. There are times when I just can’t, with people. To my wife (who may be NT, but may be ND, but in a completely opposite direction) there’s sometimes she can’t, with me.
But that’s not quite what I feel Yotomoe and biomanzilla are saying; rather, that she just is an exhausting person, period, and they wouldn’t be able to stand her in real life.
Which… I’m torn on. For one thing, rude. But on the other hand… no one’s obligated to like anyone. They’re not dating Dina, or even friends with her. We all have people who, for whatever reason, we can’t stand. It’s part of life.
I’m sure there’s more than one person who sees my name and thinks “What on earth is that fucker yapping about now?” And that’s fine. As long as people aren’t being hostile I couldn’t care less.
If there’s one thing I feel is wrong here, it’s that Bio’s initial statement, and by extension Yoto’s agreement, is that this wasn’t a personal preference but some sort of universal fact. That Dina isn’t just a character that gets under their skin, but is just universally exhausting. And that’s going over the line.
Since nobody’s bothered to talk to me like a human person I guess I’ll just clarify here.
I specifically said “I often find Dina exhausting.” which I feel like implicitly implied an inherent subjectivity but I GUESS THE FUCK NOT.
For why I often find Dina exhausting, she has a rather stiff and inflexibleness about her that often rubs me the wrong way. She can tend to be short with people, which I simply don’t vibe with. She’s often times a bit opinionated and she sometimes has this unflinching “I’m right” energy that tends to irk me at the best of times. Dina’s cute, and quirky but she’s not often nice or kind. She can be accommodating though which is nice. And you can tell she’s really putting in an effort with socializing. But I often feel like her personality just doesn’t vibe with me often times. And yes. Autistic people have personalities actually and me not vibing with her personality doesn’t mean I hate her for being autistic.
Now I would be happy if people would actually respond to what I say instead of jumping down my throat for not liking neurodivergent people based solely on me not liking this character from this webcomic. There’s lots of characters I don’t gel with in this comic, but I mention Dina and suddenly I gotta walk on eggshells cuz people just narrow her down to merely being an autistic rep and not a multifaceted character with traits, personality, habits and goals beyond her neurodivergent status.
Y’all are Exhausting.
Yoto, you’re not supposed to admit autistic people have personalities. You’re supposed to treat us like a helpless monolith who can’t be held accountable for anything, based solely on one diagnosable aspect of our existence, and if you have even a single complaint about a fully fictional character who happens to be autistic, you’re inherently endorsing RFK’s rhetoric against us. That’s a totally reasonable standard to hold someone to, right?
For what it’s worth, I sympathize with you. I feel like some folks are jumping to assuming the worst immediately.
@Yoto: Sorry people tried to frame that like you hate autistic people (especially when you were talking about one character in a cast with multiple autistic people); I think some of it was impacted by it coming off of biomanzilla’s comment, which definitely didn’t treat it with the same subjectivity as you did.
If your response there was to me, I’ll clarify.
Paragraph 1 – response to Sarah Lee, expressing understanding about feeling exhausted at times
Paragraph 2 – saying that the views expressed before are just that they would feel exhausted being with these people. You have confirmed this several times.
Paragraph 3 – saying it sounds rude, but there’s nothing wrong with this.
Paragraph 4 – saying I’m sure I’m exhausting to people but as long as they’re not being hostile I don’t mind.
Paragraph 5 – the only issue was Bio’s global statement, to which you agreed to with “yeah honestly”.
If you feel like I’m being unfair with you for agreeing with bio, and that’s why you’re screaming “I GUESS THE FUCK NOT” at me, then I’m sorry. My intent was just to put something in perspective. The main reason I didn’t talk directly to you, didn’t mention what you said, only said “and Yoto by extension,” is that other than agreeing with Bio, you said nothing wrong at all, and you expressing your personal opinion on a clashing personality is exactly what I meant when I said that it’s fine to have people you don’t get along with, and I should’ve made that clearer. I am a honestly sorry for having hurt you.
… with that said I’m tapping out.
Naw sorry I was just so frustrated by the other comment thread my hostility kinda spread to my earlier message. I wasn’t mad at you per se. I was just feeling a bit ganged up on and lashed out a bit haphazardly.
Was there any point in picking this fight? Get a grip.
Wow, way to be a smarmy ass matt. Ith do thoin Fein.
Well fair to say she probably find you unbearable as well so tit for tat and all that.
To be fair there’s not a single person in the cast that wouldn’t get EXHAUSTING in large doses lol
Joyce has no boundaries and is always at 11 emotionally.
Dorothy’s a busybody fussbudget with some control issues.
Becky’s loud as fuck and insecure.
Sarah’s deliberately abrasive and resents being around people even when it was her idea.
Dina’s a pest about dinosaur science and shitty about religion.
Amber constantly brings up her sexual fantasies, even the ones involving real people.
Amazi-Girl is a cop.
Sal definitely smells like cigarettes.
Ruth is aggressive and distractingly sexy.
Billie thinks she’s too good for everybody, until she thinks she’s not good enough for anybody.
Raidah holds grudges over stupid shit without ever seeking clarification.
Carla’s loud as fuck and insecure.
Charlie has never done anything wrong in her life.
Alice is a relentless gossip and my jaw starts locking up after an hour.
Rachel.
Joe never shuts the fuck up about women.
Mike’s kind of a downer to hang out with, lately.
Walky is a fucking slob who never shuts up about cartoons nobody else watches.
Danny plays a goddamn ukulele.
Jason is British and keeps making that everyone else’s problem.
Malaya’s ass is too distracting and they’re overly judgemental.
Marcie is too distracted by Malaya’s ass.
Booster is nosy and has boring hobbies.
Roz is too competitive about lefty-ness.
Leslie would make me watch Ghostbusters.
Robin
Lucy is too peppy.
Jacob doesn’t seem to know what he wants at any given time, until he suddenly decides it on the spot.
Ethan thinks Transformers is a personality.
Mary does nothing but spew rhetoric and act like she’s worth respecting.
Damn, these cartoon teenagers really wouldn’t be very fun to hang out with for extended periods of time.
I mean Ruth tho-
Thank you, sincerely. Made an audible (of delayed) snort once my brain fully passed Mike’s. Marcie got a slightly smaller one.
Beautifully done.
At least to introverts, I find generally speaking ANYONE is better in smaller doses than larger ones. I don’t think I’m any objectively better than anyone on this list…and sometimes I am the person I find most exhausting to be stuck with.
I think a good concept is: Socialize responsibly and in moderation. At least for me.
Yeah, I was assuming that Taffy would leave Mike out and had a reply half prepared, but no. I particularly like how Taff just had to mention the name of Rachel and Robin and no further explanation was required.
Asher is perfect tho
Was likely responsible for Blain’s death.
Checks out.
https://imgchest.com/p/ej7ma2enj7d
Quick tier list whipup.
Honestly I feel like Walky could be much lower but I feel like me and him would vibe on so many things specifically that I’d never get sick of him, but I could easily see him being someone else’s F-tier.
Kinda funny how some of my favorite characters are super low tier and some of my less liked characters are high tier simply cuz they’re pretty chill.
Personally I feel like Fuckface isn’t in a high enough tier.
😀
True. I’d rather hang out with Fuckface than ANY of those people.
https://cdn.imgchest.com/files/aecad3be5bea.png
fixed it.
Also moved Danny down. Cuz while he’s chill right now he can be a bit opinionated and whiny at times. Plus that shit he said to Ethan still creases me.
Sometimes I hit random when I’m bored and end up at him comparing Mike being generally an asshole to Darth Vader blowing up an entire planet and it’s cringe city all over again.
I think I’d still put Dina at the top of my tier list, if I were to bother to make one… in part because I think I could count on her not to interact much.
I mean, I’d still probably enjoy listening to her talk about dinosaur stuff (not out of a huge interest in my part, but simply because it’s usually nice to listen to someone talk about something they’re genuinely enthusiastic about), but she’d be most the likely cast member to accept it if I were to tell her I’m out of social energy.
Besides, if she did get annoying, I could probably just ask her to explain some obscure but complicated bit of dinosaur trivia and then tune her out for the next hour or so.
Okay this tier list is fire actually.
https://images2.imgbox.com/f4/34/YM8fyqTB_o.png I went ahead and did it too. This doesn’t reflect my opinion on the characters as characters in the comic, merely whether I think I could be friends with them or not.
High placement for Daisy. Part of me feels like I could bond with her over our mutual love of ladies but I also feel like we’d be talking past each other a lot cuz my enjoyment still involves a guy in some way.
I could fix her. That’s honestly the main reason I placed her up high cause otherwise I have no idea what her hobbies and interests are other than ‘women’ LMAO and I know what you mean, if you mentioned a guy she might zone out.
…. did you really just write that?
There’s nothing wrong with it.
Bryy’s comment is in response to biomanzilla, just in case that wasn’t clear– because I do think there’s something wrong with, “If you had to deal with someone like her in real life she’d be unbearable.”
Oh, I got who they were responding to. I agree with biomanzilla, Dina would be best in small doses IRL. She’s often just as self-righteous and indignant about her beliefs as Joyce and Becky can be, it just happens that her beliefs are mainly bounced up against Christian fundamentalist cult beliefs, so she tends to come off looking better by default. She reacts to those contradictions the same way a Gen-X man reacts when you’ve just told him you haven’t watched Back to the Future, which isn’t dissimilar to the reaction a dog has when you’ve hidden the ball behind your back after pretending to throw it. Exaggerated and disproportionate bafflement, that is.
Plus, whether it’s for comedy or not, it would be a pain in the ass getting tackled by someone making a loud, obnoxious noise just for saying something about dinosaurs that doesn’t follow the latest science.
I love Dina. She’s one of my favorite characters in the comic. I would not want to interact with her for a prolonged period of time in real life, because she’s an opinionated teenager who’s still coming to terms with people existing differently to her, and hasn’t shaken off her overreactions yet.
I do understand the potential read of “someone like her” meaning “an autistic person”, but as the most autistic person in any given room, I tend to get worn out quickly when I’m dealing with a younger autist, so I don’t necessarily take issue with that read. Even without that, not every kind of person has to find every other kind of person bearable, and as long as biomanzilla isn’t openly* supporting eugenicist efforts to get rid of autistic people, I’m mature enough to not take it personally.
*I say “openly”, because I haven’t noticed any of that rhetoric from them, and if they’re only doing shit against us in private, I have no way of knowing about it, so it’s not worth my time to assume they are and operate under that assumption.
All that said, if you got receipts they’ve been sayin’ eugenics shit about autistics in general and not just “I really wouldn’t want to hang out with this teenage character who’s incidentally autistic”, I’ll turn on ’em in a second. I got no loyalties when it comes to that.
This part.
Dina tends to engage in the same narrow world view as some of the religious types she opposes. She speaks in a lot of “this is. This is not” and not a lot of “I think…I feel…” Talking to her would only be as fun as I’m willing to agree with her/have to patience to not combat her on any of her opinions. Heck even when I do agree with her (like on the belief there are no gods) I don’t really l9ke the way she delivers that idea.
I would probably not hang out with Dina if given the opportunity
I mean, that definitely identifies where we differ. I actually am not bothered by narrow worldviews (except inasmuch as we should retain some room for empirical wiggle as new information emerges), just for their imposition on others.
I feel like we have this idea that to be an atheist or to be liberal or to be leftist is to be so non-committal and non-confrontational about what we believe, and personally, I’m not. I’m open to having my mind changed, for sure, but in the meantime, my mind stays:
1) where the bulk of the evidence is when it comes to matter of facts
2) on a (hopefully) consistent and well-reasoned worldview when it comes to morals
3) On my existing preferences for matters of aesthetics, with an understanding that aesthetics are largely subjective and vary significantly from person to person as well and there’s no sense in having strong comparative aesthetic judgements.
And you don’t approach people with judgement for having beliefs that are factually incorrect or morally dubious, you approach them with a desire to disagree freely, state your opinions bluntly, and respect the other’s views without needing to ever entertain that they might be true (except when presented with evidence to the contrary or a compelling argument). That state can remain until one of you sees otherwise, unless it turns out that worldview divergence indicates something neither can get over and neither can see the other side on, in which case if it’s a big enough deal, you probably don’t need to be in relationship at all.
And where evangelical religion loses me is that it tries to enforce those beliefs on others. But Dina isn’t saying “society should be able to make you disbelieve in god”. Dina is saying “oh, yeah, I would normally be happy that you’ve come to the viewpoint that I find correct, but I instead see that you are in a troubling emotional state, and that’s actually the important thing right now”.
My issue with what bio said is in treating it as objective that Dina would be unbearable.
That’s totally fair. I try not to take broad language as an objective declaration, though.
I definitely think it’s needlessly harsh and obviously not true for everyone. Bio never clarified why they felt that way and everyone just assumed they and by an extension I only felt that way cuz of phobia for Neurodivergence rather than a distaste for Dina as a person.
I mean they could be. I have no way of knowing.
Having no way of knowing (without clarification) is why I’m disinclined to make such a wild assumption, unlike some people. It just doesn’t make sense as a first instinct.
Some folks immediately jumping to assuming the worst is one reason why I’m not typically active in the comments.
I wonder if it’s to do with how “concentration camps” things are getting lately, everyone’s more on edge than usual.
You’ve made your point, no idea why you are continuing to pick at chat. You *really* need to work on this “they wrote something that means they are bad” thing you have going on.
You’re hallucinating.
can’t reply to the actual comment because it’s maximally nested, but I work in politics, and it’s definitely about how “concentration camp” vibed the actual world is getting.
And I get it! They’re talking about rounding me up too, after all. If there’s gonna be a time when folks are on edge, it’s now. Still, I don’t think assuming everyone is definitely saying the worst possible version of what they’ve said is going to help us in any tangible way.
That’s fair, but I feel like the reaction has been equivalent to if I said like “fuck you you’re clearly a terrible person who wants people like me dead” and not a somewhat snide “wow, hot take”.
This whole comment section has an extremely on-edge vibe where it seems like a lot of people recognize each other’s names repeatedly and have long-running beef and characterizations of each other, but I think I’ve made five comments ever before this panel, and it’s certainly the first time I’ve come back later to reply.
And the on-edgeness of people’s replies feels like it’s getting projected onto my reply.
love this angle for dina
Dina see happy God island in Beckys head tremple but with that beckys core are chipped
Reminder that Dina does not have the context of what Becky has been up to today.
I guess add me to the list of people who think the way Dina phrased things was kind of awful?
K.
This is the process by which Dina tries to understand things she finds confusing. If I phrased it that way, it would be awful. For Dina, it is not awful and puts the control of how things proceed back in Becky’s court.
IF THEY BREAK UP ON REAL-WORLD HALLOWEEN THERE WILL NOT BE ENOUGH DAMN YOU WILLISES IN THE UNIVERSE.
I would not put it past Willis to have structured it that way.
will Oxycontin help in these trying times?
I’m still worried because I accidentally looked ahead in the chapter list 🥲
Dina should break up with Becky and make out with someone else.
I’ve actually shipped Dina and Amber for a long time but I doubt it’s gonna happen.
Dina and Joe for me. They’ve got an undeniable chemistry.
I deny their chemistry. I deny it thrice.
And the rooster hasn’t even crowed yet.
I’m told 1993 was a Year of the Rooster, so I’m pretty sure that means I get to crow directly into Jesus’s dickhole.
I like the way she can scale his back and hold on like Yoda with Luke.
And they’re both green, too. 🤔
With scientific rigour.
What if she made out with Ruth?
I can’t even imagine what that might look like.
Come on, Dina, even if Becky did lose her faith in God after watching Amber get her shit kicked in too many times that would be a terrible thing to say.
Can anyone spare a little help for a reader without much social sonar? I can’t parse what Dina is saying in the last two panels. Can anyone help me understand what Dina is referring to?
Is Dina saying Becky doesn’t want to talk about her trauma because Becky understands Dina is rightfully preoccupied with caring for Amber?
Is Dina saying that seeing Amber’s injuries may have caused Becky to regret that Becky’s prior faith in God had clouded Becky’s insight into Amber’s problems up to that point?
Something else entirely? Clue? Bob? I’m clueless…
“If you’re trying to stop from putting another thing on my plate when you think I might be stressed for Amber, don’t worry, this is pretty normal.” Then the last panel is her wondering if she’s misjudged, and going “there was uncertainty there, but I’m not sure if I read you right now.” The alt text is influencing my read of the last panel, as well
Huh. That helps. Thanks!
Thank you so much, I also completely missed that.
My interpretation is different from Shiro’s.
When Dina says “You did emphasise maybe”, I believe it means that ‘Amber is hurt is the thing you didn’t maybe want to talk about and that’s what’s making you not believe in god. But Amber has always gotten hurt before, and she had been getting hurt even in the times you didn’t notice – your god isn’t just not real NOW.’
Oh, yes, that makes sense too. Thank you!
I want to try a third read. in panel four Dina says “For YOU to arrive at such a position suggests a considerable new trauma”. Then she (hopefully?) suggests that it’s because of Amber’s injury, but she knows that the only thing with that emotional destructiveness is Becky’s feeling towards Joyce. Which could have dreadful impact on Dina’s life.
Ooh, deep take! Thanks!
I’m not sure if Becky is actually leaving her religion yet, but if she is I relate to Dina here.
Half of the reading experience of DoA is waiting for shit to hit the fan and the other half is the characters either suffering because of it or cleaning up afterwards. My point is this is really tense
I just hope the college pays the janitorial staff well.
Wow, people are really aggressive towards both of them tonight.
Becky can’t just erase her feelings for Joyce; she does not deserve to be condemned because she is struggling with those feelings.
Dina is not trying to dismiss Becky’s beliefs with saying she is happy Becky might not believe in a god anymore. Dina is pleased not because she’s “right” about religion; she is potentially happy because she has seen the pain religion has caused, especially for Becky, and it seems the thought of Becky not being hurt anymore by them is a positive in Dina’s eyes.
Neither of them are being bad people; they’re dealing with complicated emotions, beliefs, and relationships. Please take a deep breath, and wait for more info before you come down on either one.
Letting go of a prior limerent object or obsessive former crush – especially where trauma bonding is involved – is HARD HARD HARD.
I’m deeply in love with my lifemate but still have trouble not thinking about the past. It’s like, “Banish all thought of pink elephants from your mind!”
The neurons that fire together wire together, and if all one’s oxytocin and dopamine and endorphins and serotonin and norepinephrine and cortisol are all bound up in the image of the person who shared one’s good times and bad since one’s childhood… it’s just so hard to let go of that and move on. Living with the omnipresent past can feel like being stuck under a rock. Not being able to stop remembering the idealized fantasy one once yearned for.
No matter how beautiful the sunshine and flowers on the other side of that rock might be in the present.
Yeah Dina’s being very wary and aware this isnt a healthy shifting in beleiefs. Becky is making her heartbreak NOT Joyces problem; “this person COULD NEVER love me” was a different heartbreak then “she can love a woman, just not you”. And like. thats gonna feel bad. theyre both doin rough.
It’s possible she’s more concerned about the pain religion has caused Becky, but what she says is “a position of no deities is correct”. She seems to be talking about Becky coming to the right position on religion, not about any harm it may have caused.
Based on what Dina has said she believes that Becky’s belief in a god is directly harmful to her; Becky has shown guilt about sex with Dina because of her religious beliefs. Dina mentioned to Joe that her intimacy with Becky has caused Becky to have a breakdown at least once.
I don’t know the exact strip, but it was the discussion with Joe where he asked her about dating/having sex with someone who has recently become non-fundie.
I believe Dina considers any religion, belief in god, or a higher power, belief in magic, or the supernatural, to be harmful. Whether, or not that’s the case is up for debate, but that seems to be Dina’s line of thinking. So hearing Becky is on the right position now would mean she will be less harmed by her own beliefs. Is that actually the case? No, it’s more complicated than that, but I have faith that what Dina says she says with the best of intentions because she genuinely, and deeply, cares for Becky.
The scientifically correct number of deities isn’t zero, it’s to point out that the definition of deities/gods is so woolly as to make the question impossible to even begin to meaningfully answer. Therefore, much like 1 divided by 0, the numerical result is undefined.
And yet Christianity, for all commonly understood meanings of Christianity, is still false.
Would you say the same about all the other religions that posit supernatural deities? you know the ones.
Yes, even Buddhism.
But dividing by zero is theoretically MASSIVE. Infinite. It’s undefined because of that, not because it’s close to zero.
Here’s a Khan Academy video about it:
https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra/x2f8bb11595b61c86:foundation-algebra/x2f8bb11595b61c86:division-zero/v/why-dividing-by-zero-is-undefined
Yes, I’m familiar.
Interestingly, there are contexts where 1/0 is consistently definable. The Riemann sphere is the classic example.
I’m not clear how the mapping of the geometrical point at infinity of the complex plane to a defined point on the Riemann sphere corresponds to the expression 1/0 in any algebraic number system. I mean, it may do so, but I’d be interested in which algebra.
First one must rigorously define “deity”. Until that’s done, it’s going to be a matter of faith, not knowledge. (Yes, even for atheism – it may be more logically supportable, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.)
Dina you shouldn’t be pedantic about language when trying to empathize with people (learned that the hard way) but I think in this case you’re doing the right thing
Maybe Take this as a sign that Dina was the one for you.
Hey look at that, Becky is aware this would be a lot to tell her Current Girlfriend! Is it. good? Shes not talking to her about it? Probably not! Maybe? Maybe we should get Leslie for this one. Is there a code alert for life destroying emotional response inducing lesbian life drama.
Can this please not be a self-destructive spiral arc? Like breaking up with awesome girlfriend just because her first love didn’t her the same way?
I would rother see Becky channel all her negative emotions into getting absolutely jacked. Buff Becky is the only thing that can salvage this situation.
And then she starts her villain arc and fights Amazigirl
Dina’s face in panel 3: Wow. Good work, Willis. So much said in just a few lines…
Dina’s faces in all the panels today are just perfect.
They are good work.
It does make her look a lot older than normal though.
It’s the character development
That’s it, Becky: God may be fake, but you have the Best Girlfriend.
And in comes Dina with the wisdom to recognize when something’s very wrong! I was a bit worried that she’d just focus on the “There is no God,” bit – but she’s concerned about her girlfriend, and knows Becky well enough to know that this is very out of character for her.
Becky needs to talk through this, and Dina’s the one person who, despite not really understanding the social side of it, can help her reason through what happened and process the emotions from what happened in a more healthy way – probably the best in the cast. Booster would have more knowledge, but his tendency to squee at others’ drama would hamper his ability to help much, Leslie would try to be understanding, but doesn’t really have the best track record on helping with relationships, and Robin? Hoo, boy, would that conversation be a mess. Dina’s autism will help her cut through the BS and help Becky work through the issues that she’s having – which is exactly what she needs right now. Yes, it’s putting stuff on Dina that she doesn’t deserve – but Dina cares about her girlfriend, and would genuinely see the self destructive spiral that Becky would otherwise go through as the much, MUCH worse thing to have to deal with.
Oh, okay. Got it. So we ARE going in the “Becky loses faith in God because Joyce doesn’t love her” direction.
Sweet.
Mmmmm I think it’s more nuanced than that. That’s definitely a part of it, but there’s also the fact that the girl Joyce is in love with reciprocated those feelings, and I’d also say especially witnessing Joyce’s dad trying to be supportive as opposed to how Becky’s dad tried to handle the situation. Joyce- who fell out of the religion they both grew up in- is getting everything Becky ever wanted. Becky is feeling betrayed by god because the one that stopped believing in him is the one “being rewarded.”
I wonder if we end up finding out this isn’t as much about “Joyce kissed a girl” as a lot of people think, and more about “Becky kicked into full on PTSD oh-shit-joyce-is-mortal-danger-because-father-is-here-and-he-knows” and then it turned out to just be a dud. And it just reminds Becky that all the stress and pain and the danger she suffered wasn’t because of god, or church, it’s always been 100% her father being a monster.
People say she was being “a good friend” for trying to distract Hank, but I really think her motivation was much less “wacky hijinks to block discomfort” and much more “if I don’t do this Joyce is going to die”, and so far nobody in the comic seems to have considered that Becky isn’t jealous or hurt by Joyce/Dorothy, she’s panicking and/or dissociating because of how dangerous it feels to her to have a father realize they have a gay daughter. And how much is burns to know it’s not a universal truth, it’s just *her* life and *her* dad causing it.
Oh, I hope you’re right, because that is a VERY interesting direction to take her character
Yup, this is gonna be the crux of it. Becky using this kinda language with Dina, though, kinda implies she’s still gonna mask, though.
No, I agree with you; Becky looked terrified.
Yeah, that’s the read I got on why Becky was jumping in too. Not that it was going to amount to anything regardless of how you cut it – but it is still admirable that she would jump in to try to protect her friend right in the middle of hurting so much.
I don’t know; that may be part of it, but Becky was shattered even before Hank showed up.
That’s probably why she jumped in to protect people’s closets, but it’s not why she’s spent the last five months trying to pry Joyce and Dorothy apart. Sometimes literally.
As a refresher, here’s Dina thinking about Becky’s thing for Joyce.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/riddles/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/04-it-all-returns/superglue/
I predict she’s been a little insecure about it in the back of her head this whole time.
But also, she’s been aware of Becky’s lingering feelings for this whole time. I think people are vastly overestimating how hurtful she’s going to find it.
Ow, I was looking for this. I just can’t believe, it was from the last semester.
There’s also this one, where Dina shows she’s aware of Becky’s jealousy over Joyce.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/absolves/
Are y’all going to get tired of me saying I love the facial expressions in this?
Too bad, because all of Dina’s are so good!
I especially like the differences between panels 3 & 4. Going from happy/concerned to 100% concerned and nailing it.
(Genuinely though, if it actually does feel like I’m spamming, I will stop.)
Came here to say this. It bears repeating. Willis nailed the facial expressions.
This girl is way too used to keeping her real emotions to herself.
MacIntyre is about to e*x*p*l*o*d*e
Oh no, here she is, being an incel again. (Shan’t forget the comment, though I forget the commenter).
In all seriousness, these kids are 18. Please give Becky a break
Not just 18, but still reeling from a recent (granted, irrational – but feelings aren’t exactly known for being the most rational things ever) emotional blow that she hasn’t processed yet. She’s behaving exactly how I would expect someone to behave given those parameters. Not intelligently, not with abundant wisdom, but with heart and passion – and putting what she feels others need over what she knows she needs for herself.
Dina is the best and I am terribly fond of her. Willis Buffer, hear my plea that the next few comics are kind to this sweet blameless child.
Dina being great autistic representation once again, because, yes, we actually can read social situations pretty well a lot of the time, we just rely on different metrics than most people.
I was just thinking last week about how many people profess to love Jocelyne, who we really don’t know much about yet and who hasn’t done all that much.
Folks were also very taken with Becky early on, about up until she got a haircut.
And we do love Dina, until she does something like be annoyed that Joyce had autism suggested to her by a medical professional without even having to ask, while Dina has struggled to have the possibility be taken seriously even when she and her parents are actively saying “look this is a thing we think she has”.
(That last bit is honestly not at all unusual with medical professionals generally by the way. A lot of doctors will be MUCH more on board with literally any diagnosis if you can get them to think it was their idea instead of yours. There are so many tips being passed around online that emphasize the benefit of telling a doctor that you’re only bothering them because SOMEONE ELSE in your life, especially a white man if you can swing it but anyone who isn’t you, won’t leave you alone until you have a doctor check for xyz. Doctors really by and large don’t seem to like it when patients self-diagnose.)
Also: I’m not saying any individual person is bad for not liking Dina in this strip. It is morally neutral to dislike characters!
I just think that we, collectively, seem to get very attached to diverse characters in the abstract, but we, collectively, seem to have very low tolerance for those characters being at all unpleasant.
It just doesn’t seem to take much for “best girl” to become “man what a bongo”.
I wonder if much of that phenomenon could be explained by people with milder opinions not wanting to engage with the wilder takes and therefore just not posting. I know I burn out on this comment section -very- quickly these days, and I’m mostly in the camp of “I like these characters, it’s neat to read about them”.
That’s honestly an issue in nost fandom, people will love a character until they do something even mildly unlikable and then they are trash.
I think this is a flawed argument in a series where every character os some shade of minority. I feel like if I see people express vitriolic distaste for Walky constantly and nobody calls it racist or anything. It’s frustrating that it feels like we have to “justify” not liking a character due to their status as “representation”. I think carla kinda sucks as a person. She’s rude, condescending and narcissistic. And I just don’t find her “bit” all that funny. But I just don’t bring it up cuz I’m sick of being called a transphobe by terminally online jerks. People probably latch on to Jocelyne more cuz she’s trans rep who’s main trait isn’t being a jerk.
I’m not saying there’s not a history of people being completely biasrd unfair to the minority group characters. But basically if you so much as imply you don’t like one of those characters people looooove to lump you in with bad actors. I like Becky more now than her introduction cuz she’s no longer obnoxious about how gay she is (usually). I like JOE more now that he’s got a personality more than “hurr hurrr women hot”. I think Joyce and Dorothy are lame couple that happens at the expense of a much better couple and I dislike it. I also thought Walky and Lucy were a lame couple that came at the expense of a much better couple. But I get so much less pushback on the second opinion I just straight up don’t talk about it nearly as much.
This wasn’t aimed at you, and I specifically said it’s fine to dislike characters. I’m sorry you got piled on.
None of which means I’m not bracing myself for Jocelyne evincing an actual personality and a lot of people immediately turning on her.
I feel like people have put a lot of #representation eggs in her basket and they’re going to be disappointed when it turns out that she isn’t the exact character they specifically wanted her to be.
Unfortunately the only way to get the exact character you specifically want is to start writing your own stories.
(But also yeah, Walky absolutely gets more crap from readers than he would if he were white. I think that’s obvious.)
I was just reminded of when Willis had to turn off and purge the comments when Carla got into a fight with Mary.
I STG Yotomoe’s comment was not there while I was writing mine!
I was reading the comic from the point Anonymous linked below and ran into the storyline!.
I love most of the characters in this series, in part BECAUSE of how so many of them are genuinely well-meaning dinguses. Despite finding Joyce’s antics annoying in relation to blocking Jocelyne’s coming out (and I still wish we’d gotten to that before swapping away to someone else), I still enjoyed the shenanigans because they’re part of what I love about the character. These aren’t all perfect flawless caricatures spouting off jokes – they’re flawed, they make mistakes (sometimes serious mistakes), and they have emotions that make them do things that aren’t logically sound in the moment. That keeps the story fun and interesting, and keeps me looking forward to the chaos that comes with the next update.
I remain annoyed that it’s 6 months later and we’re still stuck on “Joyce doesn’t love me the way I love her” from Becky. C’mon girl, you’ve got Dina.
And she been in love with Joyce for the majority of her life, years. Excuse if it doesn’t go away in half a year.
She has been in love with Joyce her whole life and now the thing she used to rationalize that, Joyce being straight, is gone. It’s gonna hit her hard.
People are talking a lot about Becky being upset over Joyce not loving her in the same way but I think there’s a big element that isn’t being talked about as much: Becky being upset that Joyce’s father will begrudgingly accept her instead of trying to murder her over it.
There’s also Becky just, struggling to accept change which has been shown several times with her anxieties over the fluidity of gender and sexuality earlier. There’s just a lot more to unpack than just “girl I liked doesn’t like me but likes other girl.”
Clarification: I don’t mean Becky wants Joyce’s father to hate her, just that there’s likely an irrational feeling of unfairness given how awful the situation turned out for Becky when she came out.
Becky doesn’t deal well with change, and here she is in the wake of life-uprooting levels of change.
-her best friend is gay
-but not for her
-dorothy the “rival” is also gay
-with aforementioned best friend
-proving sexualities can change over time
-she actually might not be a lesbian some day, it’s possible
-joyce’s father is everything she can’t have in a family
This is a tough pill for any kid to swallow and we already saw her before the party struggling with suicidal ideation and when Jocelyne visited she had to deal with the concept of gender fluidity.
Though this comment has nothing to do with today’s events, when searching for how Becky and Dina began a relationship I came across the last two panels of the below and smiled (regarding recent Walky-Dorothy-Joyce interactions).
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/spouse/
So I just realized that because I crashed earlier than 11 last night I ended up missing the new strip, damn wish I’d been around to talk in the comments about this one, oh well
Love how Dina instantly knows that Becky wouldn’t have come to that conclusion unless something bad happened
Also sorry I’ve been scarce and sorry for the snarky comment earlier. Job hunt has reached a level of desperation where I’m just. Applying to retail jobs. And knowing I’m not a great candidate for that because I haven’t worked retail in 15 years and I have limited availability because I’m trying to get my B.S. at the same time. Plus healthcare premiums next year will just be “I can’t afford that”.
Everything’s hard and scary.
I know I’m not alone in feeling that way.
Let’s all be gentler with each other? We’re all going through it right now.
I honestly don’t think you should apologize for being snarky, the vast majority of people here are, and yiu are easily one of the nicest and most patient ones around here so i think yous should fell free ti snark occasionally like everyone else.
Wishing you all the good luck on the job hunt.
Same here ;-;
Thank you. And nadamás, thank you too!
If I were Willis I would have called it “relief” rather than “joy”, but yah it’s a relief when you have to constantly cope with someone’s contradictory opinion and suddenly they’re not contradictory. Kind of bewildering too because it’s not in their character. Dina’s just being straightforward.
The main thing with Dina here, though, is she doesn’t know yet about Joyce and Dorothy. Amber getting injured while fighting cops is the main story she knows about, and Dina sees Dorothy and now Becky acting in ways that don’t fit. Even if she knew I think she’d roll her eyes and point out Amber’s situation is more significant.