A lot more than two real life years, DoA’s timeline has advanced less than six months since it started, and it’s been going strong for well over a decade at this point, so the kids would still be newborns if they were born ten years ago IRL.
Ditto.
As a suicide survivor, she is at increased risk for suicidal ideation/attempt.
Pile on the loss of not only her mother to suicide but the trauma of losing her father in such a violent way, and the possibility of losing her girlfriend puts her at increased risk. Our little live wire is in desperate need of therapy.
We know 1 is yes, 3 is up in the air. Their existence has been mentioned but i dont think anyone’s gone to see them, iirc their quality has been questioned but no real confirmation. Idk if Dotty’s therapist is with the school, Billifers is probably private. P sure they’re mandated to see suicide cases though
But whoever is reporting this hasn’t seen *all* the therapists at the university, and there can be a pretty wide range in quality. Hopefully Becky could land a good one.
I actually thought Walky’s “here” meant the region, not the school.
Also though they’re talking very specifically about plurality there. A therapist who could handle Becky’s mental state right now and be helpful to her could still be REALLY awful about plural people, depressingly.
I took Walky’s “here” to mean the university, but also that it reads as ambiguous if it’s based on how they are with plural people. Specifically, third panel makes it seem that Walky might or might have some first-hand experience with that. Also, if it was Amber who went to see someone… well, I don’t think she’d have gotten into the AG stuff before quitting.
My experience is that they still try to refer you out after an initial meeting/offer a pretty limited number of sessions. But I think Dorothy’s is through the school (based on when Walky met up with her as she was leaving), and she’s been going for a bit, so it may vary.
My experience was that all uni “counseling” was given to psych grad students to do, and they’d ask to film the sessions for credit. Was not very useful for my purposes
Well, they’d ask patients sign a consent form for it which probably includes department-standardized language explaining how footage would be used. So, legally, no. From my view, though, at times when I’ve really been struggling, I’ll just agree to a lot of things; don’t really much fight in me at those points. When I’m doing better, I’ll look back on some things I was like, “yeah, fine, whatever” about like… no. And beyond that, if you’re seeking services from someone and they ask if they can record, it might not feel good or even be challenging for some people to start things off by turning down a request from the person they’re seeing.
Legally covered, but I definitely find it uncomfortable.
I was…more fortunate? I had a rather important question I couldn’t resolve, and midway through the third session (of three!), I had one of the more unusual moments of my life as I realized the answer to my question was at that moment coming out of my mouth. Pretty much completely cured me of the grew-up-fundie “all mental health professionals are evil and/or incompetent” thing.
I don’t know about in-comic, but I’ve not heard good things from anybody who used IU’s student counselling services IRL that I’ve spoken to. When I was a student I briefly dated a girl who went to them for depression and when she described negative intrusive thoughts they for some reason assumed she was talking about auditory hallucinations and instead of diagnosing her with clinical depression and prescribing anti-depressants, they diagnosed her with schizophrenia and prescribed her anti-psychotics, which because she wasn’t already experiencing hallucinations, caused her to experience hallucinations, which resulted in her being hospitalized for 72 hours in the psych ward after she hallucinated a homeless man walking in front of her car and getting hit, which nearly caused her to have an *actual* crash while she was driving her friend on a *very* busy street endangering many lives. Then when she was released and went back for another session and explained what happened, instead of re-evaluating their prior assessment of her described experience with intrusive thoughts, they decided she was lying for attention, and diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder due to this attention seeking behavior and continued to not treat her for clinical depression which is quite plainly what she was actually dealing with.
I don’t know if they use students as some have suggested, but I seriously would never recommend anybody go to IU’s student counselling for anything ever because even if they *might* have *some* competent people, the risk you’ll wind up with a quack like the girl I dated is non-zero, which is far too high.
ALSO throwing in… at my (not IU, but comparable) university, it was also really difficult to change who you were seeing if you wanted to keep getting services there. The first guy I saw said some shit, and if I hadn’t known a different therapist who worked there (facilitated a support group I was in) to tell her about the shit he said, my options probably would have stayed at “see him or no one here.”
I can’t speak for real-life therapy at IU, but in comic we know that Ruth, Jennifer and Dorothy have all been.
Ruth and Jennifer seem to have been helped – though how much Ruth’s was the therapy and how much the medication is hard to say. Dorothy had less success, but she was also holding stuff back for fear of being diagnosed with something that would hurt her electoral chances.
I don’t know why, but I read this is Rorshache’s voice, and now i am wanting Asma to join Amazi-Girl’s “Midwest Avengers” team as the gritty anti-hero vigilante who’s seen-too-much. I’ve got a superhero name for her… Böltcüttër (with an umlaut over every letter to make it more METAL and EXTREME.)
Man did have it good at first. And I do mean The Man. Singular.
(note this refers to Genesis 2 where man was created before woman. And not Genesis 1 where man and woman were created simultaneously.
And it cannot refer to Yahweh before man since there were multiple Yahweh-ians since he says “Let Us make man in Our image” instead of “my” image and also cheese and crackers how f*cking long is this aside. Why does every single bit in the Bible have to be so convoluted.)
“Why does every single bit in the Bible have to be so convoluted.”
Because it wasn’t all written at the same time, by the same person, or for the same purposes; one of the two creation tales was written by the priestly class a couple of centuries after the other one, for instance, and Noah’s flood was lifted wholesale from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Add in the translations from one language to another, and the fact that before Hebrew had a written form parts of the OT/Torah were passed down via oral tradition, factor in possible political influence on translations (especially during the Middle Ages, when quite a lot of Europeans simply couldn’t read and thus couldn’t call out alterations to the text), and you wind up with quite a mess.
Ties into what i was wondering yesterday; “if this is an insert, does that mean nothing said here could have too radical an effect on what Becky would have done anyway, given the buffer?”
I coukd still turnout entirely wrong down the road, but. Fun to ponder from a metanarrative view.
Or maybe Asma was inserted in the place of a different character, but the scene was already written and ~could~ have a radical effect on what Becky does.
Not really sure who “they” are. Doesn’t sound like something a 10 year old would say. But everyone used to be 10, so they could still be on to something.
Amen, a thousand times amen. It’s why Becky is one of my fave characters. She shows what I dearly and sincerely want to believe with all my heart… that the fundies who hurt so many people, including me, are not the end-all be-all of this faith, and they are not the authorities they claim to be, and they do not speak for all of us, least of all me.
Maybe. But I have seen some christians communities that challenges the tradicional views, because needs. I know a church that attends queer people in downtown from my city. And people there consider it a safe place (the church don’t try to convert you or something worse).
It was good for her, the idea that there’s a kind and loving God out there who cared for her, even when no one else did. For all my issues with the church, you couldn’t convince me to find fault in that. Especially not for someone who’s been through as much as becky. I’m sticking with my theory that she does still believe in that technically, but she doesn’t feel deserving of it. Like those atheists in those weird Christian movies, except instead of hating god she’s treating it like a gf that’s too good for her
So thing is, community is one of the net positives religion brings, but also i think people see it too monolithically. There’s something about Americans in particular that can’t conceive of personal religion. Like, 90% of actual religious belief is personal interpretation. The texts were never meant to be taken literally, they’re basically philosophy books and survival guides. Pork is banned in abrahamic religion because, well it can make you sick easily so it was best to just avoid it. That’s it. The core message in something like Christianity is just, “be kind, don’t judge, be charitable and keep an open heart”, and then people got bogged down in the details. it got retranslated like a hundred times, priests in the olden days made sure the poor couldn’t read and even if they could the shit was in latin so they could dictate what the Bible actually said.
Speaking of bogged down in the details I’m bad at being concise and coherent. So to boil it down- being religious doesn’t automatically make you part of the institution. Hell, individual churches aren’t inherently part of the institution. It’s a source of personal philosophy first and foremost, religious texts are guidelines and ironically, not gospel. I think too many people, in and out of the church, see it black and white.
To add on to your second paragraph, apparently some sects (such as those Westboro Baptists, from what I’ve read) manage to get so lost in the details that they forget the core message.
Can’t reliably make assumptions about members of a religion based solely on the beliefs and actions of people from an unconnected group in that religion.
Well why can’t you just have all those good things without signing up for the rest of a Religion’s baggage? Why do you need to believe in supernatural entities to create that end product?
I kind of disagree about religion in general, at least Christianity. I’m glad that you’ve found a good core message, but that’s you choosing that message, not you finding the truth that organized religion hid from people.
The Bible is not univocal. There is no core message. There are dozens of books by even more authors, each with their own viewpoint and message. Written at different times under different circumstances for different purposes. The vast majority not thought of as “scripture” by the authors. The vast majority of it was meant to be taken literally (other than obvious parables and poetic bits, along with some prophetic texts that were metaphorical references to problems of their own day that couldn’t safely be stated openly – like the “beast”).
The pork thing, to use your example, is generally thought to be far more of a cultural signifier than a health concern. A group of people who didn’t raise pigs as part of their culture came to use that as a distinction between them and their enemies and it became a cultural taboo and embedded in the religion long after anyone knew why.
If there’s a core message to Christianity, it’s not “be good”, it’s Christ – the whole have faith in his resurrection to get right with God thing. And that’s not philosophy, that’s pure theology, but without it, there wouldn’t be a religion.
I think that’s the most real Becky has ever been. She always puts up this chipper, even defiant front, but underneath all that is a very sad girl who’s not had the best life.
Indeed. Pretending to be a silly, happy little goofball to hide the intense pain on the inside is… god, it’s so common. It’s another reason Becky is one of the characters I identify so closely with despite being a cishet dude.
To be perfectly honest… between Becky, and both Adora and Catra from She-Ra… for a cishet dude there seem to be a lot of very much not cishet people who speak to me a lot deeper than other cishet dude characters.
That might be because most Cishet dude characters are very one-note or if they do have more complex emotions is usually tied to Revenge or Becoming Stronger in some way. Very few male characters are allowed to feel Trauma in any sense aside from MAYBE ptsd from War or Survivor’s Guilt.
Avatar the Last Airbender is the only show I can think of off the top of my head that allows their Male Characters to experience the full range of emotions and allows them to go through stuff like Trauma and Abuse.
Why do you think Spiderman is the world’s most popular superhero, dude gets put through so much trauma and suffering that just about everybody on the planet can relate to the man lol.
> eyes my overflowing bookshelves probably worth more than my car at this point.
Yeah… I think I’ve got that pretty well covered. Though admittedly I do read a lot of non-fiction, which doesn’t have “characters” in the traditional sense.
I am aware that there are plenty of books with troubled male characters.
I was referring to shows, since that was what the commenter had mentioned.
I spent most of my life doing almost nothing BUT read books.
this is perfectly valid and reasonable, it’s ok to be able to identify with someone who has a different way of life, belief system or even orientation. and as Switchchris said, the average cishet dude in media (see most of them up until very recently) was so one note dude bro they were lucky if they only bordered on cringe. also let’s be really really fucking real… Catra rocks a fucking tux.
in actual commentary on this page, I love that you can see the moment Asma goes from being annoyed and angry to just immediately dropping that because she realizes what Becky is actually saying. Asma for main cast Willis? ~<3
Becky speaks truth. No lie detected. I will never understand the people who think short hair or a suit is somehow a “bad” look for ladies.
And all that’s beside the fact that people telling others how to dress or style their hair is rude and just fuckin’ weird. ‘Bluh, bluh, I hate that haircut.’ Cool. Nobody asked. If it ain’t your hair, you don’t get an opinion.
Like, I was reading Willis’ tumblr last night, and they talked about the fact that there are people who are still furiously angry at Becky for getting a short haircut years and years ago is… I struggle to find the words. The level of straight-up weirdness required to be foaming at the mouth enraged when a fictional female character has the audacity to get a haircut or dress themselves in fashion of her own choosing; to paraphrase the late, great Mr. Lynch… fix your fuckin’ heart, dawg.
Obviously a haircut can mean something more or less than a fashion statement to the person getting the cut. All I meant is that telling someone what they can or cannot do with their hair, is presumptuous. Their body, their choice. That’s not just a catchy slogan only referring to a single issue, it applies to the whole body, hair included.
As someone who was routinely praised for my “resilience” while going through the worst parts of my life, often by people who were living my dreams, I feel uncomfortably in tune with Becky’s pain. I don’t care if she still calls it God, I just hope she remembers why she keeps going.
A few months ago one of my best friends, who’s currently a moderately successful musician, told me that “your ability to withstand L after L is really inspiring.” It’s the one time in our 15 year friendship that I’ve felt true burning envy for their life, like how DARE they say that to me when they’re touring Australia and Asia next year. I sense Becky is going through something similar right now.
Yeah, even if your friend meant it as the most sincere of compliments and in admiration… the word choice still stings. Words spoken can hurt even if the speaker did not intend them to, even if they were meant as praise or love.
This strip is sad and then you check the archives and it turns out this scene is the first time Becky and Asma have even been in the same strip. They don’t know each other! Becky just walking up to a random muslim-looking girl and traumadumping and Asma’s just like “Been where longer? The dorm lobby? Ma’am, I often leave it.”
I’m pretty sure all lesbians know each other. Hence the often used phrase “gosh, I didn’t even realize you knew who I was” followed by “girl, We’ve Been Dating For A Month Now”. Not that I think they are dating, Asma is interested in leather jacket lady and isn’t dinosaur enough for Becky.
We’ve just been shown that Becky knows Asma via her knowing her name. Would you prefer Becky have a thought bubble explaining how they met, or can you accept that things happen off-screen?
For me I think the problem isn’t really that she knows Asma’s name as much as this interaction is very rude unless there’s a level of familiarity with Asma I don’t think we can cover by saying “Things happen off screen”. Are Becky and Asma friends? If they’ve interacted enough that Becky can comment on Asma’s faith unprompted I would’ve liked to see that relationship form otherwise she’s just randomly bothered Asma much like Dorothy and Joyce did. Talking to someone you barely know if at all in an attempt to assuage whatever emotions you have.
Agreed. It’s not so much that things can’t happen off screen as that the conversation reads differently depending on how well we assume they know each other.
I think Becky is being rude, like textually. Asma’s words and expression in the last panel of the previous strip and the second panel of this strip convey annoyance, like if a random girl from her residence hall just walked up to her and started trauma dumping.
I think Becky (and Dina, Lucy, Jacob, and Tony) would be among the first names I thought of if I had to list “characters who aren’t too up their own ass to have noticed that the front desk girl is a human being and chatted with her a bit”. Billie is last on the list. Literally below Galasso.
I know it was a running joke, but is it really being “up your own ass” to not befriend every one you interact with occasionally in that kind of business role? If they didn’t learn the names of the various cafeteria workers, does that mean they didn’t notice they’re human beings?
Is this even something customer-facing workers usually want? When I’ve had those kinds of jobs, I usually wanted the bare minimum of social interaction.
The first time the running joke came up, it was because Walky expected her to know his name while having no idea of hers, which does seem an expectation worth mocking. Over time it seems to have morphed into it’s bad for anyone not to know her name.
I think some is that beyond Walky, it’s still been expecting a bit of familiarity from her even though they don’t even know her name. If they didn’t know her name but gave her a passing nod or a “Hey” when seeing her out and about somewhere, I think that’d be fine.
I know it was a running joke, but is it really being “up your own ass” to not befriend every one you interact with occasionally in that kind of business role? If they didn’t learn the names of the various cafeteria workers, does that mean they didn’t notice they’re human beings?
This varies among cultures. In some parts of the US, the answer to all your questions seems to be “yes”, scarily. Probably the same places where it’s impolite if you don’t start a conversation with the random stranger who happens to be waiting at the same bus station as you.
As a Texan (one of the more aggressively social cultures in the US as far as small talk goes), we are not expected to know the names of service workers or to learn them, even if we’re regulars. Only if we want a specific person for some reason or if our idea of regular is literally every single day in their face.
But I mean, that has more to do with service workers being dehumanized and not considered people by the general public. I hate small talk, but it’s at least a way for people to show that they’re friendly-ish. My husband loves customers talking to him. He can’t stand the people that treat him like a robot or that refuse to even look at him or his employees when they order.
Yeah, I’ve heard many times that “people like when you addres them by their name.” Meanwhile, when a barista at my usual coffee shop started addressing me by name, I was like, “Okay, I have to stop coming here now.”
Like, I’m happy to chat and be polite with cashiers, waitstaff and the like if they seem receptive. They’re people, but they’re not friends. I don’t need to know their names, they don’t need to know mine – unless that’s part of the transaction.
That’s a good point. I certainly never knew the name of anyone who worked in the mailroom when I was in college. We didn’t have an equivalent of front desks in the dorms, though, just one central mailroom.
Would it be wrong to say Becky is the most socially capable of the three so it’s no surprise she would learn Asma’s name? I know to some Dorothy fans that sounds insane but Dorothy also has the excuse of being in a crash out arc over Joyce all this excuse and only being focused on Joyce.
Also, even though Becky didn’t officially live in the Hall where Asma works last semester, she did temporarily stay there either with Joyce or in Billie’s room, and with all of her friends (and girlfriend) in that Hall, Becky obviously has spent time in that area a lot last semester which means more opportunity for these two to have talked off-screen. Especially since unlike the other characters, Becky didn’t have classes to go to.
Also as a Dorothy fan you are 100% correct in your assessment.
I’d say that it’s a fair statement to say that Becky is the most gregarious of the three. Dorothy likes people in the abstract, but really isn’t very adept at navigating individual interactions, and Joyce is, well, Joyce, saddled with everything her upbringing involves.
Or annoy her. Becky projected her own current religious issues / made an incorrect assumption about Asma’s relationship with her religion. That’s not something people usually love to happen.
Honestly, one of my big wishes for Asma interacting more with Joyce and Becky, is I just want to see her find out what kind of background they come from, and tell both of them “holy shit, I can’t believe all of that happened to you, it’s so unfair, I’m so sorry.” I get the impression, though it’s early to say for sure, that Asma is being written as a character who doesn’t come from a fundamentalist background, despite the fact that her faith is still very important to her; but, because she’s Muslim, everybody projects fundamentalism onto her, because of western cultural notions about Islam.
There’s this tacit assumption from white people, religious and secular, that if somebody is Muslim, they must be necessarily more conservative and fundamentalist in beliefs and practices, then whatever that white individuals’ beliefs about the median religious practice implies; you can kind of see that here, with Becky openly and blatantly projecting her own religious trauma onto Asma, and concluding that Asma’s faith is therefore “stronger” than hers.
So, I think it would really mean a lot, relative to the assumptions white fundamentalist Christians such as Joyce and Becky seem to have about Muslim faith and practices, for them to hear from another pious person, how incredibly extremist and abusive their background actually is; they know that fact to be true by now, sure, but they have no sense of scale for how far down the bell curve their experiences actually are.
What I mean is, they both have internalized the idea that there is the background they come from, and then there are “hippie Christians” who don’t take the details so seriously; but, I don’t think they’ve properly unpacked their internalized fundamentalism, in terms of seeing their upbringing as being more like “Real Christianity,” while the denominations which they’ve shopped around as replacements, as being a sort of Jesus Lite brand.
They do not process this dichotomy, however, when it comes to non-Christian faith; I think they put anything to do with Islam, as being closer to their childhood experience, in some obligate sense; so, for them to actually discover that their assumptions about the degree to which fundamentalism is inherent to faith, for the typical practitioner, are wrong, via a source that they are presuming must share their fundamentalist background, would do wonders for helping them to start actually unpacking their trauma. They actually need to learn that the vast majority of religious folks, of every faith, are far less like their former congregation, and are in fact much more like those non-fundamentalist church-goers that they still haven’t quite stopped looking down upon, for “not taking their faith as seriously.”
Aside from all this, I do hope I’ve chosen good diction for trying to describe my thoughts on this topic; I come from a pretty secular background, so if I’ve communicated anything in an imprecise or offensive fashion, I’m sorry in advance and am fully open to any clarifications or corrections.
I don’t know. I want to feel bad for Becky because she feels bad but everything around this little interaction and the context behind her misery just feels a little pathetic and obnoxious to me. This is just a different flavor of what Joyce and Dorothy did. Maybe Becky is trying to find someone willing to reach out and talk with her? Otherwise I’m not sure what this does for her. It just comes off like badly to me.
For a severely mentally ill 19 year-old, the shame of knowing you sound pathetic and obnoxious to an outside observer simply cannot overcome the urge to verbalize your pain in a dramatic fashion. This is unfortunately almost exactly how I acted when I was suicidal in the weeks before I first dropped out of college.
It would not surprise me if this is all leading to Asma blowing up at the main cast because they keep looking for someone stoically disconnected from their bullshit to vent to and finding her
I saw the movie “Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead,” where two travelers are put in the play of “Hamlet” and have to go through it as two minor characters who only have four scenes with the rest of the cast, and they are just as lost with what Hamlet is doing as Asma is to the angst of Becky and the sexual shenanigans of Dotty and Joyce. And, unlike the protags of the movie, I don’t think Sarah or Amber are going to show up and give Asma a play-by-pay as to what happened between Dotty and Joyce kissing at the protest and now.
R&G are in the original play, they are just small bit parts as old friends of Hamlet that Claudius hires to do a show. Hundreds of years later, Stoppard had a really funny idea to expand their story.
I’m 90% sure she is reaching out, just poorly. She’s trying to grasp onto something like faith when she just does not see it anymore (even if that reason is petty or bad or whatever your personal opinion is). Though I think it could be read that lashing out, since she’s also kind of tearing down the concept of faith.
Honestly it could be both simultaneously. She’s been through a lot and people who are going through depressive episodes are not exactly paragons of logic.
As an atheist, I sometimes envy people who are able to have faith in a religious concept without needing demonstratable supporting evidence. I think I’m not wired for that level of faith.
For me, the issue is less faith and more belief in what it is and how you relate to it. But then I don’t define faith as “trust despite evidence or in absence of it.” Just trust in general.
I mean, as an atheist myself, I WOULD be comforted by the idea that SOMEONE was going to make everything right and fair and just in some afterlife. That’s a highly comforting idea!
Reminds me of a line from Mira Grant’s novel Deadline, when Shaun wishes he could believe in God just so he’d know that when they finally got through everything, there’d be somebody he could punch in the face at the other end.
What Big Z said. So many derive comfort from their faith. Sometimes it’s like being that kid in class who can’t eat peanut butter, watching everyone enjoy their sandwiches.
But then I remember my opinion that far more harm has been done in the name of religion than beneficial actions.
Y’know, I’d go so far as to say that there’s a big, bright line between wishing one could believe in “promises of an afterlife/perfect divine justice” (comforting, actually) and wishing one could believe in “any religion as actualized in the world we live in” (often suspect at best).
Because it can be quite taxing to research stuff when you wish to form an opinion on something.
Having premade opinions and not having to fact check things people say is so much less work!
The grim, objective reality is, nothing happens for a reason; everything actually happens, for an incalculably large number of concurrent, interconnected reasons, and that vast web of discrete individual probabilities is so inscrutable to us as mere individual beings, that it is necessarily indistinguishable from chaos. So, the idea of everything being chaos, is terrifying; but, the idea of everything not being chaos, yet still being unknowable, is perhaps even more terrifying.
I have long thought/believed that the desire for a simple answer that makes sense (to one’s existing biases) for things that are actually unfathomably complex is behind a lot of conspiracy thinking.
But most of it is just racism or some other sort of bigotry. 🙁
Oh you’re absolutely right about that. Conspiracy theories are an attempt to make order out of chaos, because there is nothing that freaks our lizard brains out more than uncertainty. To some people, belief in any order, even an evil order (like believing the world is controlled by lizard people) is preferable to chaos.
Shambles is a state of disorder, so “I would be a shambles” means “I’d be a mess” — it is more often used after “in”, but I don’t think it’s wrong. Could be an Indiana dialect thing; I always thought “What in hell?” as opposed to “What (in) the hell?” was a little weird too
I thought it was the opposite. In the original Star Trek, they say “what the devil” all the time, but they were only allowed to use the word “hell” once.
other than dina being ‘uptight ‘ about not using apostrophes/contractions or so, language /eng can be bs sometimes so other than someone writing an offenseive accent i wouldn’t think anyone other than english majors would bother doing ‘perfect grammar’ allthe time in casual comvo anyways
A google ngram search shows usage of “a shambles” as early as 1889. I also looked at several dictionaries just now and all of them included example sentences without in.
James Davis Nicoll: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”.
Ethan’s escape from Goth Nightwingdom happens when he’s in a toy store and someone talks about Arcee isn’t a real Transformer because Transformers are all men.
Yeah naw Becky’s rubbing me wrong this page. “All ‘o this” is just a pretty messed up way to describe an adherence to someone practicing their faith. And that’s assuming that Asma IS practicing any faith by wearing a Hijab (which I assume is what Becky is referencing).And yeah it feels really backhandedly dismissive of Asma’s faith. Even if that’s not her intention. Which is all exacerbated because…well. Becky and Asma aren’t friends. Or even acquaintances probably.
ehh….
Honestly as someone who works the drive through at a restraunt there’s plenty of customers who know my names and know little things about me/I know things about them that I wouldn’t really consider “acquaintances”.
Why do I get the feeling Asma is having her “Rosencratz and Guildenstern” moment in this chapter? She and Becky aren’t friends and I personally would be HIGHLY offended at this conversation of “Wow, you still believe in God? Must be nice.” Especially since Asma doesn’t even know the context to WHY Becky renounced her faith.
Have no fear, I am sure she’ll be back eventually… she just needed a sabbatical. Last I heard she’s enjoying some recreational femur collecting. Gotta take time for yourself once in a while, y’know?
For some people, their religious beliefs aren’t based around what their religion says about gay people, or whether the events in their holy books are a one-to-one reflection of reality, but instead based on the lessons inside. Being kind to others, helping the poor, discipline. I’m not religious myself, so I can’t entirely understand it, but my best friend is a gay man who is also Christian, and despite Fundamentalists condemning his feelings for other men, he gets something from Christianity that means a lot to him. In this strip, Asma herself is stating that she finds strength in her devotion, like perhaps her hijab is her shield against a society, culture, and people who take one look at her and immediately come to unsavory conclusions.
A lot of Christians also openly denounce homosexuality. Some might even say the vast majority of them do. They use the Bible as their evidence as well. I can’t say as far as Islam goes, I’m not incredibly informed on Islam as a religion but as far as I’m concerned, if there are gay people who still identify as Christian despite other Christians blaming them for natural disasters, boycotting their right to get married and adopt children, insisting they deserve death for being themselves, then why can’t a sapphic woman still identify as Islamic despite them denouncing her as well?
I don’t know where you’re from Miroku, but you gotta keep in mind, I’m from the South. Trust me; there are lots of Fundamentalist Christians here who still hate and denounce homosexuality. I once had to keep my mouth shut during a family dinner while my grandma’s friend started rambling about how “Gays ruined the rainbow. They took God’s symbol and they twisted it for their agenda”. After gay marriage was legalized I saw lots of instances in the news where after a natural disaster, people were coming out to protest with signs saying “This tornado/flood/hurricane is God’s punishment for us legalizing gay marriage”. My best friend who is gay and Christian? His step-mother is also Christian, but she’s more fundie style and she once called my best friend up to cry to him about how she didn’t know if her deceased lesbian aunt was going to heaven or not. Again, despite my best friend also being gay, implying she was on the fence if he was going to heaven as well.
Re; the comment about the rainbow, whenever I hear fundies complain that “gays stole the rainbow from God,” I can’t help but feel like that is counterproductive, because that just makes them sound cool as Hell. That is some Kratos meets Ocean’s 11 type shit. You saying my friends are MtG/DnD planeswalkers?!
Pffft, gays didn’t cause the Flood, silly. Every “World of Darkness” nerd knows the wickedness that prompted the Great Deluge was vampires. Y’all motherhumpers need to brush up on your Book of Nod.
My point also wasn’t “oh, yeah, we caused the flood the first time” … like, even as the joke, that’s not what’s being said. Unless you’re saying that’s a stance/thought some people actually have? It’s not something I’ve ever encountered.
This isn’t a condemnation, as people say most religious people don’t adhere 100% to every tenet of their Holy Book, but the Quran is much more explicate about homosexuality being Haram (sinful) than than the Bible. On the other hand, homosexuality was often seen as a very minor sin in historical Islamic societies, the punishment for being caught being as lenient as a small fine (though this obviously varied over centuries). The modern extreme stance in the Islamic world actually has it’s origins from when those countries where under European colonial and Soviet control and enforced anti-homosexuality laws (though this is not the only contributing factor).
It’s complicated. That said my experience in a non western Muslim majority country is that sunni orthodoxy still considers LGBTQ a sin. At best you get that LGBTQ Muslims must never act on their urges. This i should does not mean disapproval of non Muslim LGBTQ, but obviously they may differ if the LGBTQ person is a coreligionist.
Much like Christianity, there are all kinds of Muslim opinions on LGBtTQ+ folks.
More than half of American Muslims think that homosexuality is fine, and frankly there are even fewer parts of the Quran and Hadiths that concern homosexuality than there are in the Bible, and they’re even more ambiguous.
That said, I am geeky l genuinely curious if the percentage changes if they are asked if they are fine with LGBTQ in society at large versus LGBTQ within Islam, because my non American experience suggests that people do change their answer depending on if they LGBTQ person in question is Muslim or not.
Yes, that’s a very different question than “should homosexuality within islam be accepted by practicing Muslims” when asked of people aware they live in a multi religious society . Least I checked liberal LGBTQ accepting mosques are still very much considered unorthodox even in the united states’ vs mosques that accept LGBTQ exists and should be accepted but not practiced by Muslims of faith
This is not true, the passages from the Bible that are often used to justify homophobia are much more explicate in the equivalent versions found in the Quran even in the original Classical Arabic.
Okay first off, in what way does Islam “openly denounce” homosexuality that Christianity doesn’t?
Second, I’m gonna introduce you to a mind-blowing concept: you don’t have to follow every rule your religion gives you. Otherwise we wouldn’t be seeing Christians eating ham with their golden cross necklaces and Jesus tattoos wearing polycotton blends, across the dinner table from their menstruating wife. You are in fact, despite what debate perverts like Richard Dawkins will tell you, allowed to pick and choose what feels right for you. Because religion is deeply personal at the end of the day.
I mean, the Christian argument is essentially most Old Testament rules are obsolete because Jesus gave us the cheat codes.
That was the whole point of Jesus. To come along and say “you don’t need to follow these rules to get to heaven, just follow me”.
Really the stranger thing is how Christians think some of the old rules apply but not others. “gay bad” but “pork okay”. The argument I’ve heard is that they read the bible and see some Old testament content as referring just to “local laws” whereas other section instructs us on “natural laws”… Which seems to me like just a way to rationalize the cherry picking. Especially when you consider that the prohibition on pork isn’t treated as just “this is against the rules” but is actively treated as something disgusting. “unclean” seems just as much a statement about “natural law” as “abomination”.
The most interesting argument I have ever heard about old testament laws is they are a “practical applications of God’s will in the context of which they were written” and it is the job of people to work backwards from the law to the will, and then re apply it to modern contexts. Kind of a spirit of the law vs letter of the law thing.
So under that logic you can look at dietary laws like no pork, recognize that at the time Pork (and shellfish) were a particularly dangerous meat to consume due to food borne illness. You could then work backward and say the underlying will was that people wouldn’t get sick/die from bad food and conclude that since in a modern context Trichinosis is not as much a concern you can now eat pork without violating the actual will behind the rule.
It’s especially hypocritical when you consider the story where the food prohibitions are lifted (Acts 10). Peter is about to meet a centurion who wants to join the faith; he has a vision of prohibited animals and is commanded to eat them: “Do not call anything unclean that God has made clean.” Then the centurion shows up and Peter EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT THE VISION MEANT.
“He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.”
So it’s explicitly explained right there in the story that you’re not supposed to call people unclean based on the old laws. Pretty ironic that it’s now the proof text of choice for “pork ok, gays bad”
Well we’re not “a couple of centuries ago”, we’re here and now, where even Turkiye and my own country are backsliding. But yes, you can find some countries where christian based homophobia is wielded by the state and people in the same fashion, now including Trumps America so…welp.
Homosexuality was always considered Haram, but of all the things that are considered Haram it was seen as one of the most negligible, the punishment often being a small fine.
I am going to scream. Why are you people so allergic to the idea of people practicing an individualized version of religion. And why the fuck don’t you say this about fucking, BECKY, who had a whole god damn. ARC about that shit? This nebulous version of Islam asma practices (we don’t even know what sect she is, if any) supposedly condemns homosexuality, but no one ever says this about Becky, or sierra who’s part of a lesbian polycule. Does the Quran even say anything about homosexuality or are you just making assumptions like every other westerner with no clue about Islam?
I mean we already know Becky was evangelical and now attends a mainstream liberal Church like Lucy , and Sierra is very obviously from a pretty chill denomination, if she can be said to have a denomination at all. there’s nothing new to be added about it.
Re Islam though, I admit I’m not a westerner (I’m not Muslim either) and while I’m quite aware there are mosques in the us that are accepting of LGBTQ, and more that are accepting of LGBTQ in broader society but not as an acceptable practice in the religion, i think it’s fair to say contemporary orthodox islam does generally have views on LGBTQ that at best translate to “you can think it but you can’t act on it” at best.
Okay but you see how you’re not asking the question “how can Becky like women while being part of a homophobic faith”, right? Why are we not applying the heuristic “oh asmas religious and queer, she probably follows a non homophobic reading of the text/mosque/whatever. Like, there’s a certain amount of flexibility being applied to the Christian queer characters that isn’t being applied to this Muslim queer character.
Orthodox Christianity also has very negative views on queerness. Newsflash, the orthodoxy for abrahamic religions tends to be pretty conservative! Yet we don’t paint every practicing Jewish or Christian character with the same brush based on what the fundamentalists say
I have never at any point said anything disparaging about Asma as a person, nor have I made any negative statements about how she chooses to practice her faith. I *have* however attributed some of Asma’s positive qualities to her faith, such as her stated views on restraint and not doing things just because you can. It is certainly not Asma’s fault there exist orthodoxy that is very much not progressive on LGBTQ issues, i have never said such a thing nor do i find it a great mystery that asma can be a nuanced human person that does not follow to the letter every edict of her faith.
But yes, what I have said, is make commentary that mainline and orthodox sects of islam do tend to, at best, hold a position that LGBTQ is something a adherant may well think or accept, but they have to accept that it is not something they can practice. that there exist more liberal sects is not something I have denied, other than to note that they are still a comparative minority and not orthodox in the broader context of the muslim world. I’m fairly certain we are not going to get a storyline where asma must reconcile this with a sect that is of the view that LGBTQ cannot be practices becuase relations must only be within marriage withing the context of Islam, and since Islam is very clear marriage is only between man and woman, LGBTQ muslims have to accept that. this is not something I made up, it is part of the theology. now obviously there exist movements to change this, but even then, they know they are fighting against orthodoxy.
I think a lot of this is that you’re very caught up in sects and religious movements as a whole, versus the individual and their beliefs. That it is accepted that Becky and Sierra can be Christian and gay but Asma is so scrutinized does speak to some level of Othering of Muslims to me. You may not intend that, but that’s frankly how you come across because you’re so wrapped up in trying to explain the sects of Islam that are anti-homosexuality as if those same sects don’t exist for Catholics, Christians, and Judaism. When the question is “How can character be religious and gay at the same time”, the answer is obviously “they believe in the spirit of the religion but disapprove of and abhor the parts that hate them”. Even if that is the minority choice for that religious doctrine, that’s still completely possible to do.
I certainly never said it was impossible. I did say that it would be interesting if we had to see how Asma personally reconciles that aspect, *if* she is from a sect or family that is mainstream. But fair enough. I don’t bother doing the same for christians and catholics because there’s plenty of christians and catholics to speak on those topics here. I obviously know they exist.
That said, fine, I obviously have my own axes to grind about political islam and enforcement of islamic morality laws by secular legal authorities that is irrelvent to the united states, so there’s that.
Honestly, this is one the most annoying things about the nutters in any group. They tend to be the loudest, most obnoxious portion, so those outside of the metaphorical “tent” assume they speak for the whole, but that has never true because no grouping of more than one person is monolithic because that is not how humans have ever worked.
PS. for those who want an example of how one can be both Muslim and queer, I can do y’all one better and give you a name you can look up; Canadian author Irshad Manji.
Boom. Right there, a lesbian that practices Islam in the IRL. Asma may be a fictional character, but people like her are not some imaginary revisionist pipe dream. Queer Muslims do exist, and they are valid.
I’m not entirely sure she’s the best example here? But yeah, i am aware her most famous works are critiques of contemporary islam, it’s literally the title of her first book? (which for obvious reasons most muslim countries have banned. seriously, the US still has a long way to go on the crushing of civil discourse stakes)
anyway. from that article:
“Now, with that being said, it’s worth going back to the speaker chosen to facilitate such discourse on the subject. Irshad Manji stepped into prominence with the publication of her first book “The Trouble with Islam,” wherein she advocates for the reform of Islam. Since then, she has become one of the most prominent critics of the current state of the religion and “Arab culture” more broadly. She has faced criticism from some scholars for “disproportionately targeting Muslims” and becoming a tool for “anybody who wants to smear Islam and bash Muslims.” This is already a poor start for a speaker chosen to lead discussions within the context of the current conflict, as it is not hard to see how her beliefs on Islam could alienate many of the Muslims on this campus who this Metanoia would hope to bring into civil discourse.
Additionally, she has published specifically pro-Israel positions throughout the past decades. For example, in 2006 Manji published an op-ed in the New York Times entitled, “How I Learned to Love the Wall,” where she actively defended the West Bank Wall and blamed Palestinians for its creation. She furthers the pretext of defense that was used to justify the wall’s creation, while ignoring how it is both illegal under international law and was originally created with the explicit intention of stealing large swaths of land from Palestinians. She also frequently defended the state of Israel in “The Trouble with Islam” and specifically its treatment of Palestinians.
Irshad Manji, founder and chief executive of the Moral Courage Network. Photo from events.uconn.edu
The point here is not to disparage one traveling professor’s views but rather question why Manji was chosen to lead a content neutral discussion for this Metanoia when she herself is so clearly biased. If this is the university’s way of dealing of Israel and Palestine, then does their invitation of a speaker clearly on one side of things not reveal something about their position as well? It rings hollow that Metanoia is meant to bring people together when the idealistic language presenting it is underwritten by a complete lack of actual impartiality. The point of criticism is a disappointing lack of oversight into how this event was created, given the current political context on campus and the weight it holds to so many. If UConn wants to address how these events affect its community, it should choose programming that better reflects a desire to have an unbiased discussion. Having Manji, who has a strong public record of supporting one side of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, attempt to advocate for neutral debate over that same issue exposes the bias problem at the heart of this Metanoia. “
Yeah I think that’s also part of the disconnect. For you Muslims that are anti LGBTQ are nutters. For me they are elected politicians and neighbors and coworkers. I will certainly not call them nutters to thier face!
I will add that yes, you can find where I have said that it would be interesting to see how Asma reconciles things given that she does choose to wear a hijab, for whatever reason. yes, it could be purely cultural, yes, it could be because she feels it is a link to her heritage and practice, it may be because of modesty and so on so forth. THere is a reason why that is noted in mainstream islamic theology for why hijab, but again, of course this is subject to various interpretations, and it is actually not mandatory to wear a hijab. is it *fair* to presume there is at least some religious motivation behind it? well, ymmv i suppose. but if you wear a obvious crucifix or cross i would think there is *some* motivation there that’s at least partly religious.
re the other characters – i think the most interesting one is actually Agatha, though i would note a few points:
1) she’s clearly not in Utah. and even if she were, iirc SLC for example is still a major urban area and so not quite as conservative as the rest of the state?
2) she wore pants to church, which is now, to my understanding, increasingly acceptable, where previously it was not. that at least indicates a progressive mindset, abeit one in line with changing societal values (in this sense, it’s like Lucy – she’s not being incredibly radical in 2025 for being religious yet willing to have sex outside marriage with a bit of nonsensical “rules”). its treated as a sort of ecccentric affection because that is what it is
anyway, yes, we’ll see where the comic goes with this. going to be interesting regrdless
As a side note, do we know that Becky and Lucy attend a “mainstream liberal church”? It was culty enough to send Walky running for the door and we know that earlier Becky talked with Jacob about preferring the familiar form of her old church, even if the doctrine wasn’t great.
Believe me, I went to a super liberal Presbyterian service once (a friendsked me) and the second the hymns started and people started throwing their hands in the air, closing eyes in seeming bliss, swaying gently while singing, some or all?
Every skin cell I had wanted to crawl off my body. It felt culty. But it was not.
On that day, I realized that the only functional difference between ‘real religion’ and ‘looney cult’ is subscriber count.
Yeah I’m with you tbh, and some of these comments are reeking of Islamophobia, even if it’s not intended. Like, if you haven’t practiced or studied the religion of Islam I do not think you get to say shit about it’s alleged “rules.” Especially considering how pervasive Islamophobic propaganda has been in the West. Folks in the comments maybe need to check themselves before talking about something they don’t know about and just perpetuating harm.
I have trouble relating to this strip, because religion has never been a source of strength for me. And I feel like even if Becky and Asma both stopped believing in their religions, they would find other good sources of strength soon enough.
It’s honestly not easy to find a new one when your old one leaves, regardless of what it is or whether it’s healthy. In a religious context it’s part of “convert zeal” (and outside of that context why, say, people like Becky will sometimes explode out of the closet).
Unfortunately this is one of those things where you kinda have to accept that other people have weird shit and evaluate it on its actual (not assumed) toxicity to self and others, and for Becky it’s been, more or less, healthy but insifficient
I struggled with losing religion and ended up regaining it once I found anarchism and my religious beliefs aligned. It just confuses the hell out of both groups now.
Being aroace, I have trouble relating to any strip involving love or lust (of which there are many in Dumbing of Age). Sometimes we have to just accept that different people find different things important, even if they seem incomprehensible to us.
I think maybe we could examine how “religion” is conceptualized in Western Society. “Religion” as something discrete, classifiable, and separable from politics/economics/culture/law etc… is a relatively recent development.
And because it is a product of Western society, this conception of religion often fails to mesh well with other cultural understandings of faith, ethics, justice, governance, ritual, etc…
And continuing the now decade-long trend, that means we’re about a month out from my tenth anniversary of children too.
Losing religion is hard as hell, but also, it’s kind of the “death of the author” argument, in that most religion is so deeply entrenched in the worst elements that truly disentangling feels just about impossible. But, well, I guess we had the whole Good Place to run us through the idea of whether it’s possible to make truly 100% ethical choices in the modern world.
Actually, to any guys struggling with finding a karaoke song because of range limitations, you can take a stab at this song; IIRC, the breadth of the vocal range on this song is less than a full scale of notes, so if that’s your sticking point, it might be for you!
it’s funny in my case cuz even tho I haven’t committed to being kosher in years, I have them with kosher franks and dont add cheese regardless cuz thats how i like em best lol
I like Asma’s perspective. I don’t believe in a higher power, but what she’s saying reminds me of what I’ve seen and heard from the resistance fighters in Palestine, who also seem to clearly *gain* strength from their faith. I empathize with Becky and would probably have responded similarly at her age. Great comic today, Willis.
heh. I don’t know of any ten year (or even 1 hour) cuts of that, but it is a long-time favorite of mine, which I first encountered by happy accident at a roller skate rink (remember those?).
I suspect Becky’s disillusionment is deeper than “I can’t get the girl I want so there must be no God”. Maybe something about, God wouldn’t have set up such a system in the first place? But I don’t understand the underpinnings of Becky’s religious faith, so I can’t guess. If you dig into why individuals are religious, even say specifically evangelical presbyterian Christians, there’s a really wide variety of actual reasons and beliefs. Like, ask them how big and influential an angel is, or where souls come from, or whether it makes a difference if you pray out loud, or has God told them anything and how. So I can’t guess where Becky’s coming from.
Obviously I’m taking shots in the dark like everyone but to me this reads like her current depression and disillusionment is multi faceted.
One aspect being the obvious doubting of her faith which I think is just a case of the straw that broke the camels back. With one more thing that didn’t go a way she views as fair or just (either Joyce not wanting her or Joyce’s coming out being relatively easier than hers)
The other aspect she seems to view these events as trials, like some entity is testing her. I think she views herself a little like Job to use a biblical analogy. Except she’s a Job that failed, who didn’t have enough faith. So in addition to the world view shift of losing her religious cornerstone she also views losing that faith as failing some grand cosmic test.
indeed, atheist or not, Becky is still operating intuitively under the fundamentalist narrative which posits evil exists in this universe to test her integrity, for which passing or failing is held against her, leading to this vicious cycle of self-deprecation
and ngl, this is oh so familiar to me, with so many high high and low lows in my life at one point, the cycle became so accelerated that I became self aware of it,
and was eventually like
you know what this just ain’t for me, this is just making me paranoid when my physical and mental health are already low as they are, fuck it im just not gonna be religious this way or even at all
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:(
Yeah, alt text What if they aged in comic time?
Can’t imagine staying in the newborn trenches for a full real-life-two-years.
A lot more than two real life years, DoA’s timeline has advanced less than six months since it started, and it’s been going strong for well over a decade at this point, so the kids would still be newborns if they were born ten years ago IRL.
now *that* would be Totally Babies.
“i would be a shambles” is good wordage. as if i didn’t already have enough reasons to love asma!
to shreds you say
Asma’s cool.
I continue to be concerned by Becky’s word choices.
Yeah :((
Same!!
I forth this.
YUP.
Ditto.
As a suicide survivor, she is at increased risk for suicidal ideation/attempt.
Pile on the loss of not only her mother to suicide but the trauma of losing her father in such a violent way, and the possibility of losing her girlfriend puts her at increased risk. Our little live wire is in desperate need of therapy.
I really hope 1.) the university provides counselling 2.) she seeks it out 3.) the counsellor is good.
We know 1 is yes, 3 is up in the air. Their existence has been mentioned but i dont think anyone’s gone to see them, iirc their quality has been questioned but no real confirmation. Idk if Dotty’s therapist is with the school, Billifers is probably private. P sure they’re mandated to see suicide cases though
IIRC, didn’t Amber say that school-provided counsellors were, quote; “crap?”
Closest I remember off the bat is Walky saying they “aren’t very good”: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/01-this-bright-millennium/herselves/
But whoever is reporting this hasn’t seen *all* the therapists at the university, and there can be a pretty wide range in quality. Hopefully Becky could land a good one.
I actually thought Walky’s “here” meant the region, not the school.
Also though they’re talking very specifically about plurality there. A therapist who could handle Becky’s mental state right now and be helpful to her could still be REALLY awful about plural people, depressingly.
I took Walky’s “here” to mean the university, but also that it reads as ambiguous if it’s based on how they are with plural people. Specifically, third panel makes it seem that Walky might or might have some first-hand experience with that. Also, if it was Amber who went to see someone… well, I don’t think she’d have gotten into the AG stuff before quitting.
Man. I hadn’t read either of those as ambiguous before this moment. It’s neat how differently people can read the same words. Language is hard!
No-one ever has the same conversation, including the people having it.
My experience is that they still try to refer you out after an initial meeting/offer a pretty limited number of sessions. But I think Dorothy’s is through the school (based on when Walky met up with her as she was leaving), and she’s been going for a bit, so it may vary.
My experience was that all uni “counseling” was given to psych grad students to do, and they’d ask to film the sessions for credit. Was not very useful for my purposes
Jesus… I’m no lawuer, but that feels like a giant blazing neon breach of doctor/patient confidentiality.
Well, they’d ask patients sign a consent form for it which probably includes department-standardized language explaining how footage would be used. So, legally, no. From my view, though, at times when I’ve really been struggling, I’ll just agree to a lot of things; don’t really much fight in me at those points. When I’m doing better, I’ll look back on some things I was like, “yeah, fine, whatever” about like… no. And beyond that, if you’re seeking services from someone and they ask if they can record, it might not feel good or even be challenging for some people to start things off by turning down a request from the person they’re seeing.
Legally covered, but I definitely find it uncomfortable.
Therapy is a bit… gray-area, I think, because of things like peer counseling and group therapy.
I think it would depend on what the subject of your therapy was, and they proooobably had waivers?
But also everything Yumi said. Problematic on every level other than legally.
I was…more fortunate? I had a rather important question I couldn’t resolve, and midway through the third session (of three!), I had one of the more unusual moments of my life as I realized the answer to my question was at that moment coming out of my mouth. Pretty much completely cured me of the grew-up-fundie “all mental health professionals are evil and/or incompetent” thing.
I don’t know about in-comic, but I’ve not heard good things from anybody who used IU’s student counselling services IRL that I’ve spoken to. When I was a student I briefly dated a girl who went to them for depression and when she described negative intrusive thoughts they for some reason assumed she was talking about auditory hallucinations and instead of diagnosing her with clinical depression and prescribing anti-depressants, they diagnosed her with schizophrenia and prescribed her anti-psychotics, which because she wasn’t already experiencing hallucinations, caused her to experience hallucinations, which resulted in her being hospitalized for 72 hours in the psych ward after she hallucinated a homeless man walking in front of her car and getting hit, which nearly caused her to have an *actual* crash while she was driving her friend on a *very* busy street endangering many lives. Then when she was released and went back for another session and explained what happened, instead of re-evaluating their prior assessment of her described experience with intrusive thoughts, they decided she was lying for attention, and diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder due to this attention seeking behavior and continued to not treat her for clinical depression which is quite plainly what she was actually dealing with.
I don’t know if they use students as some have suggested, but I seriously would never recommend anybody go to IU’s student counselling for anything ever because even if they *might* have *some* competent people, the risk you’ll wind up with a quack like the girl I dated is non-zero, which is far too high.
ALSO throwing in… at my (not IU, but comparable) university, it was also really difficult to change who you were seeing if you wanted to keep getting services there. The first guy I saw said some shit, and if I hadn’t known a different therapist who worked there (facilitated a support group I was in) to tell her about the shit he said, my options probably would have stayed at “see him or no one here.”
I can’t speak for real-life therapy at IU, but in comic we know that Ruth, Jennifer and Dorothy have all been.
Ruth and Jennifer seem to have been helped – though how much Ruth’s was the therapy and how much the medication is hard to say. Dorothy had less success, but she was also holding stuff back for fear of being diagnosed with something that would hurt her electoral chances.
oh yeah Willis,
happy birthday to your kids!
🥳 🪅🎉🎂🎈🎊🎁
I came here to post this, so from me as well.
Yeesh.
Asma givin Becky the “that’s rough buddy” look.
Anyone else getting Tali’Zorah vibes from Asma’s scarf? Just me?
Its the purple
And the stripes
So Asma’s putting up a mask, and not many people get to see her true face?
I don’t know why, but I read this is Rorshache’s voice, and now i am wanting Asma to join Amazi-Girl’s “Midwest Avengers” team as the gritty anti-hero vigilante who’s seen-too-much. I’ve got a superhero name for her… Böltcüttër (with an umlaut over every letter to make it more METAL and EXTREME.)
The source of my strength is spite and a need to prove myself, honestly. Can’t admit failure and can’t lie so gotta push through no matter what.
Mine’s sugar. When I run out of sugar, I’ve got rage as a fallback option.
Rage, spite and sugar conquer the universe. Unless those are super-hero/villain names, in which case it’s
Rage, Spite and Sugar Conquer the Universe!!!
Asma: I’ve got to stop letting people approach me.
Other People were a mistake
Jahannam is other people.
Wish I could upvote this. That was well played.
Man did have it good at first. And I do mean The Man. Singular.
(note this refers to Genesis 2 where man was created before woman. And not Genesis 1 where man and woman were created simultaneously.
And it cannot refer to Yahweh before man since there were multiple Yahweh-ians since he says “Let Us make man in Our image” instead of “my” image and also cheese and crackers how f*cking long is this aside. Why does every single bit in the Bible have to be so convoluted.)
“Why does every single bit in the Bible have to be so convoluted.”
Because it wasn’t all written at the same time, by the same person, or for the same purposes; one of the two creation tales was written by the priestly class a couple of centuries after the other one, for instance, and Noah’s flood was lifted wholesale from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Add in the translations from one language to another, and the fact that before Hebrew had a written form parts of the OT/Torah were passed down via oral tradition, factor in possible political influence on translations (especially during the Middle Ages, when quite a lot of Europeans simply couldn’t read and thus couldn’t call out alterations to the text), and you wind up with quite a mess.
Ties into what i was wondering yesterday; “if this is an insert, does that mean nothing said here could have too radical an effect on what Becky would have done anyway, given the buffer?”
I coukd still turnout entirely wrong down the road, but. Fun to ponder from a metanarrative view.
Anyway I like these two.
I think this works to both develop Asma’s character and show some alarm bells ringing vis a vis Becky’s imminent physical health.
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Or maybe Asma was inserted in the place of a different character, but the scene was already written and ~could~ have a radical effect on what Becky does.
We’ll never know!
Maybe!
Re the alt text: Congratulations!
Yeah! 10 year olds are so cool. The golden age of childhood, as they say.
Not really sure who “they” are. Doesn’t sound like something a 10 year old would say. But everyone used to be 10, so they could still be on to something.
10 is a pretty good age. 12 fucking sucks.*
(*Being* 12 sucks; I greatly enjoy working with kids around this age.)
Agreed, being 12 was bullshit. Making somebody be 12 years old should be illegal.
I thought 12 was pretty good. It was the last year before I had to deal with puberty and all the accompanying bullshit.
12 was right in the throes of puberty for me. Also, worse stuff happened to me at 13, but 12… still just sucked.
I hope Becky finds God again somehow, because Christianity fuxking needs more people like her.
Amen, a thousand times amen. It’s why Becky is one of my fave characters. She shows what I dearly and sincerely want to believe with all my heart… that the fundies who hurt so many people, including me, are not the end-all be-all of this faith, and they are not the authorities they claim to be, and they do not speak for all of us, least of all me.
with zero sarcasm, amen.
One good apple doesn’t save a rotten tree.
Maybe. But I have seen some christians communities that challenges the tradicional views, because needs. I know a church that attends queer people in downtown from my city. And people there consider it a safe place (the church don’t try to convert you or something worse).
No, but apples have seeds in em you can grow new trees with.
Much like good cops.
I would actually say the opposite.
Christianity needs less people like her?
Christianity may need more people like Becky but I don’t know if Becky needs more Christianity.
I mean. I’m sure people like Becky are good for Christianity, but I tend to think of Christianity not being good for her.
It was good for her, the idea that there’s a kind and loving God out there who cared for her, even when no one else did. For all my issues with the church, you couldn’t convince me to find fault in that. Especially not for someone who’s been through as much as becky. I’m sticking with my theory that she does still believe in that technically, but she doesn’t feel deserving of it. Like those atheists in those weird Christian movies, except instead of hating god she’s treating it like a gf that’s too good for her
So thing is, community is one of the net positives religion brings, but also i think people see it too monolithically. There’s something about Americans in particular that can’t conceive of personal religion. Like, 90% of actual religious belief is personal interpretation. The texts were never meant to be taken literally, they’re basically philosophy books and survival guides. Pork is banned in abrahamic religion because, well it can make you sick easily so it was best to just avoid it. That’s it. The core message in something like Christianity is just, “be kind, don’t judge, be charitable and keep an open heart”, and then people got bogged down in the details. it got retranslated like a hundred times, priests in the olden days made sure the poor couldn’t read and even if they could the shit was in latin so they could dictate what the Bible actually said.
Speaking of bogged down in the details I’m bad at being concise and coherent. So to boil it down- being religious doesn’t automatically make you part of the institution. Hell, individual churches aren’t inherently part of the institution. It’s a source of personal philosophy first and foremost, religious texts are guidelines and ironically, not gospel. I think too many people, in and out of the church, see it black and white.
To add on to your second paragraph, apparently some sects (such as those Westboro Baptists, from what I’ve read) manage to get so lost in the details that they forget the core message.
Can’t reliably make assumptions about members of a religion based solely on the beliefs and actions of people from an unconnected group in that religion.
Well why can’t you just have all those good things without signing up for the rest of a Religion’s baggage? Why do you need to believe in supernatural entities to create that end product?
I kind of disagree about religion in general, at least Christianity. I’m glad that you’ve found a good core message, but that’s you choosing that message, not you finding the truth that organized religion hid from people.
The Bible is not univocal. There is no core message. There are dozens of books by even more authors, each with their own viewpoint and message. Written at different times under different circumstances for different purposes. The vast majority not thought of as “scripture” by the authors. The vast majority of it was meant to be taken literally (other than obvious parables and poetic bits, along with some prophetic texts that were metaphorical references to problems of their own day that couldn’t safely be stated openly – like the “beast”).
The pork thing, to use your example, is generally thought to be far more of a cultural signifier than a health concern. A group of people who didn’t raise pigs as part of their culture came to use that as a distinction between them and their enemies and it became a cultural taboo and embedded in the religion long after anyone knew why.
If there’s a core message to Christianity, it’s not “be good”, it’s Christ – the whole have faith in his resurrection to get right with God thing. And that’s not philosophy, that’s pure theology, but without it, there wouldn’t be a religion.
I think that’s the most real Becky has ever been. She always puts up this chipper, even defiant front, but underneath all that is a very sad girl who’s not had the best life.
Indeed. Pretending to be a silly, happy little goofball to hide the intense pain on the inside is… god, it’s so common. It’s another reason Becky is one of the characters I identify so closely with despite being a cishet dude.
To be perfectly honest… between Becky, and both Adora and Catra from She-Ra… for a cishet dude there seem to be a lot of very much not cishet people who speak to me a lot deeper than other cishet dude characters.
That might be because most Cishet dude characters are very one-note or if they do have more complex emotions is usually tied to Revenge or Becoming Stronger in some way. Very few male characters are allowed to feel Trauma in any sense aside from MAYBE ptsd from War or Survivor’s Guilt.
Avatar the Last Airbender is the only show I can think of off the top of my head that allows their Male Characters to experience the full range of emotions and allows them to go through stuff like Trauma and Abuse.
Why do you think Spiderman is the world’s most popular superhero, dude gets put through so much trauma and suffering that just about everybody on the planet can relate to the man lol.
Maybe read more books.
> eyes my overflowing bookshelves probably worth more than my car at this point.
Yeah… I think I’ve got that pretty well covered. Though admittedly I do read a lot of non-fiction, which doesn’t have “characters” in the traditional sense.
Wait, I misread. I thought this was addressed to me. Mea culpa.
I am aware that there are plenty of books with troubled male characters.
I was referring to shows, since that was what the commenter had mentioned.
I spent most of my life doing almost nothing BUT read books.
this is perfectly valid and reasonable, it’s ok to be able to identify with someone who has a different way of life, belief system or even orientation. and as Switchchris said, the average cishet dude in media (see most of them up until very recently) was so one note dude bro they were lucky if they only bordered on cringe. also let’s be really really fucking real… Catra rocks a fucking tux.
in actual commentary on this page, I love that you can see the moment Asma goes from being annoyed and angry to just immediately dropping that because she realizes what Becky is actually saying. Asma for main cast Willis? ~<3
re; Catra rocks a fucking tux, HELL YEAH SHE DOES!
Semi-relevant strip:
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/fancypantsy/
Becky speaks truth. No lie detected. I will never understand the people who think short hair or a suit is somehow a “bad” look for ladies.
And all that’s beside the fact that people telling others how to dress or style their hair is rude and just fuckin’ weird. ‘Bluh, bluh, I hate that haircut.’ Cool. Nobody asked. If it ain’t your hair, you don’t get an opinion.
Like, I was reading Willis’ tumblr last night, and they talked about the fact that there are people who are still furiously angry at Becky for getting a short haircut years and years ago is… I struggle to find the words. The level of straight-up weirdness required to be foaming at the mouth enraged when a fictional female character has the audacity to get a haircut or dress themselves in fashion of her own choosing; to paraphrase the late, great Mr. Lynch… fix your fuckin’ heart, dawg.
Of course a haircut isn’t always just a haircut.
To quote the late unlamented Ross MacIntyre, “Your hair is your womanhood. You will reclaim it.”
Obviously a haircut can mean something more or less than a fashion statement to the person getting the cut. All I meant is that telling someone what they can or cannot do with their hair, is presumptuous. Their body, their choice. That’s not just a catchy slogan only referring to a single issue, it applies to the whole body, hair included.
OOF that fucking hurt to read. :[
“Happy birthday! I did a strip with Depressed Becky!”
As someone who was routinely praised for my “resilience” while going through the worst parts of my life, often by people who were living my dreams, I feel uncomfortably in tune with Becky’s pain. I don’t care if she still calls it God, I just hope she remembers why she keeps going.
This is beautifully worded. Thanks for sharing this with us.
A few months ago one of my best friends, who’s currently a moderately successful musician, told me that “your ability to withstand L after L is really inspiring.” It’s the one time in our 15 year friendship that I’ve felt true burning envy for their life, like how DARE they say that to me when they’re touring Australia and Asia next year. I sense Becky is going through something similar right now.
Yeah, even if your friend meant it as the most sincere of compliments and in admiration… the word choice still stings. Words spoken can hurt even if the speaker did not intend them to, even if they were meant as praise or love.
So is Asma on Clark 4?
Trusting that elevator. What a mistake.
People occupy that elevator.
(*shudders)
Joyce and Dorothy were right. Take the stairs. Embrace silent isolation.
This strip is sad and then you check the archives and it turns out this scene is the first time Becky and Asma have even been in the same strip. They don’t know each other! Becky just walking up to a random muslim-looking girl and traumadumping and Asma’s just like “Been where longer? The dorm lobby? Ma’am, I often leave it.”
Considering Becky knew Asma’s name when Dorothy and Joyce didn’t, we can assume they’ve interacted off screen.
Why would we assume she knows Asma any more than the rest of the cast? I’m not even sure why she knows Asma’s name.
Becky: I mean why wouldn’t I know her name? What kind of psycho would just think of her as front desk lady?
I’m pretty sure all lesbians know each other. Hence the often used phrase “gosh, I didn’t even realize you knew who I was” followed by “girl, We’ve Been Dating For A Month Now”. Not that I think they are dating, Asma is interested in leather jacket lady and isn’t dinosaur enough for Becky.
Becky will start dating Asma and use her as a prop to justify her atheism.
“You’re so beautiful God can’t possibly exist.”
“That makes no sense and annoys me.”
We aren’t on these characters 24/7.
What ever happened to “show don’t tell”?
We’ve just been shown that Becky knows Asma via her knowing her name. Would you prefer Becky have a thought bubble explaining how they met, or can you accept that things happen off-screen?
Next you’ll be telling us that time passes between panels.
For me I think the problem isn’t really that she knows Asma’s name as much as this interaction is very rude unless there’s a level of familiarity with Asma I don’t think we can cover by saying “Things happen off screen”. Are Becky and Asma friends? If they’ve interacted enough that Becky can comment on Asma’s faith unprompted I would’ve liked to see that relationship form otherwise she’s just randomly bothered Asma much like Dorothy and Joyce did. Talking to someone you barely know if at all in an attempt to assuage whatever emotions you have.
Agreed. It’s not so much that things can’t happen off screen as that the conversation reads differently depending on how well we assume they know each other.
I think Becky is being rude, like textually. Asma’s words and expression in the last panel of the previous strip and the second panel of this strip convey annoyance, like if a random girl from her residence hall just walked up to her and started trauma dumping.
Thank you.
I think Becky (and Dina, Lucy, Jacob, and Tony) would be among the first names I thought of if I had to list “characters who aren’t too up their own ass to have noticed that the front desk girl is a human being and chatted with her a bit”. Billie is last on the list. Literally below Galasso.
I know it was a running joke, but is it really being “up your own ass” to not befriend every one you interact with occasionally in that kind of business role? If they didn’t learn the names of the various cafeteria workers, does that mean they didn’t notice they’re human beings?
Is this even something customer-facing workers usually want? When I’ve had those kinds of jobs, I usually wanted the bare minimum of social interaction.
The first time the running joke came up, it was because Walky expected her to know his name while having no idea of hers, which does seem an expectation worth mocking. Over time it seems to have morphed into it’s bad for anyone not to know her name.
I think some is that beyond Walky, it’s still been expecting a bit of familiarity from her even though they don’t even know her name. If they didn’t know her name but gave her a passing nod or a “Hey” when seeing her out and about somewhere, I think that’d be fine.
This varies among cultures. In some parts of the US, the answer to all your questions seems to be “yes”, scarily. Probably the same places where it’s impolite if you don’t start a conversation with the random stranger who happens to be waiting at the same bus station as you.
As a Texan (one of the more aggressively social cultures in the US as far as small talk goes), we are not expected to know the names of service workers or to learn them, even if we’re regulars. Only if we want a specific person for some reason or if our idea of regular is literally every single day in their face.
But I mean, that has more to do with service workers being dehumanized and not considered people by the general public. I hate small talk, but it’s at least a way for people to show that they’re friendly-ish. My husband loves customers talking to him. He can’t stand the people that treat him like a robot or that refuse to even look at him or his employees when they order.
Yeah, I’ve heard many times that “people like when you addres them by their name.” Meanwhile, when a barista at my usual coffee shop started addressing me by name, I was like, “Okay, I have to stop coming here now.”
Like, I’m happy to chat and be polite with cashiers, waitstaff and the like if they seem receptive. They’re people, but they’re not friends. I don’t need to know their names, they don’t need to know mine – unless that’s part of the transaction.
That’s a good point. I certainly never knew the name of anyone who worked in the mailroom when I was in college. We didn’t have an equivalent of front desks in the dorms, though, just one central mailroom.
Would it be wrong to say Becky is the most socially capable of the three so it’s no surprise she would learn Asma’s name? I know to some Dorothy fans that sounds insane but Dorothy also has the excuse of being in a crash out arc over Joyce all this excuse and only being focused on Joyce.
Also, even though Becky didn’t officially live in the Hall where Asma works last semester, she did temporarily stay there either with Joyce or in Billie’s room, and with all of her friends (and girlfriend) in that Hall, Becky obviously has spent time in that area a lot last semester which means more opportunity for these two to have talked off-screen. Especially since unlike the other characters, Becky didn’t have classes to go to.
Also as a Dorothy fan you are 100% correct in your assessment.
I’d say that it’s a fair statement to say that Becky is the most gregarious of the three. Dorothy likes people in the abstract, but really isn’t very adept at navigating individual interactions, and Joyce is, well, Joyce, saddled with everything her upbringing involves.
But while Joyce is saddled with many things, she’s also incredibly friendly and outgoing
“You might not realize, but I lead a rich and fulfilling life outside this building.”
dina gets packages from the front desk so i imagine she’s told becky her name in convo
One of the very first Patreon bonus strips is a Becky/Asma strip. *checks* Yep! The third Patreon bonus strip!
https://www.tumblr.com/dumbingofage/801969808055910400/here-is-the-third-ever-patreon-bonus-strip-from
anyway, yes, they’ve previously met
hell, becky previously met asma before most of the main cast, including dina
….OOOOF
oh and happy b irthday tanjoubi omedetou joyeux anniversaire, Willis kids.
While Asma’s faith wasn’t shaken by Becky, I do think Becky managed to bum Asma out somewhat.
Or annoy her. Becky projected her own current religious issues / made an incorrect assumption about Asma’s relationship with her religion. That’s not something people usually love to happen.
Honestly, one of my big wishes for Asma interacting more with Joyce and Becky, is I just want to see her find out what kind of background they come from, and tell both of them “holy shit, I can’t believe all of that happened to you, it’s so unfair, I’m so sorry.” I get the impression, though it’s early to say for sure, that Asma is being written as a character who doesn’t come from a fundamentalist background, despite the fact that her faith is still very important to her; but, because she’s Muslim, everybody projects fundamentalism onto her, because of western cultural notions about Islam.
There’s this tacit assumption from white people, religious and secular, that if somebody is Muslim, they must be necessarily more conservative and fundamentalist in beliefs and practices, then whatever that white individuals’ beliefs about the median religious practice implies; you can kind of see that here, with Becky openly and blatantly projecting her own religious trauma onto Asma, and concluding that Asma’s faith is therefore “stronger” than hers.
So, I think it would really mean a lot, relative to the assumptions white fundamentalist Christians such as Joyce and Becky seem to have about Muslim faith and practices, for them to hear from another pious person, how incredibly extremist and abusive their background actually is; they know that fact to be true by now, sure, but they have no sense of scale for how far down the bell curve their experiences actually are.
What I mean is, they both have internalized the idea that there is the background they come from, and then there are “hippie Christians” who don’t take the details so seriously; but, I don’t think they’ve properly unpacked their internalized fundamentalism, in terms of seeing their upbringing as being more like “Real Christianity,” while the denominations which they’ve shopped around as replacements, as being a sort of Jesus Lite brand.
They do not process this dichotomy, however, when it comes to non-Christian faith; I think they put anything to do with Islam, as being closer to their childhood experience, in some obligate sense; so, for them to actually discover that their assumptions about the degree to which fundamentalism is inherent to faith, for the typical practitioner, are wrong, via a source that they are presuming must share their fundamentalist background, would do wonders for helping them to start actually unpacking their trauma. They actually need to learn that the vast majority of religious folks, of every faith, are far less like their former congregation, and are in fact much more like those non-fundamentalist church-goers that they still haven’t quite stopped looking down upon, for “not taking their faith as seriously.”
Aside from all this, I do hope I’ve chosen good diction for trying to describe my thoughts on this topic; I come from a pretty secular background, so if I’ve communicated anything in an imprecise or offensive fashion, I’m sorry in advance and am fully open to any clarifications or corrections.
Seriously, you’ve been spittin’ fire the last couple days. Bravo.
thank you willis for the dyke drama. no one is doing it like you.
Many congrats, Willis! Raising Sagittarius children is both a gift & a challenge! 😉 Ten years down & 10+ to go . . .
Because it needs repeating:
Random aside: I believe Robin from Stranger Things is just live action Becky by the way she behaves.
Robin has a better haircut, though.
🙂
I hadn’t made the connection, but they are startlingly similar in some ways.
I don’t know. I want to feel bad for Becky because she feels bad but everything around this little interaction and the context behind her misery just feels a little pathetic and obnoxious to me. This is just a different flavor of what Joyce and Dorothy did. Maybe Becky is trying to find someone willing to reach out and talk with her? Otherwise I’m not sure what this does for her. It just comes off like badly to me.
For a severely mentally ill 19 year-old, the shame of knowing you sound pathetic and obnoxious to an outside observer simply cannot overcome the urge to verbalize your pain in a dramatic fashion. This is unfortunately almost exactly how I acted when I was suicidal in the weeks before I first dropped out of college.
It feels to me another instance of Asma being a prop for the main characters to talk at while she reacts with rote dialogue.
It would not surprise me if this is all leading to Asma blowing up at the main cast because they keep looking for someone stoically disconnected from their bullshit to vent to and finding her
Inshalla she goes crazy at bowling
Asma deserves a rampage, she’s earned one.
She can have a little rampage. As a treat.
My take was the fact that Asma notices and is annoyed by this.
Ethan had the same problem in-universe but complaining about toys.
I saw the movie “Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead,” where two travelers are put in the play of “Hamlet” and have to go through it as two minor characters who only have four scenes with the rest of the cast, and they are just as lost with what Hamlet is doing as Asma is to the angst of Becky and the sexual shenanigans of Dotty and Joyce. And, unlike the protags of the movie, I don’t think Sarah or Amber are going to show up and give Asma a play-by-pay as to what happened between Dotty and Joyce kissing at the protest and now.
Hopefully it turns out better for Asma than it does for R&G.
Great movie though.
R&G are in the original play, they are just small bit parts as old friends of Hamlet that Claudius hires to do a show. Hundreds of years later, Stoppard had a really funny idea to expand their story.
They also get killed off in Hamlet, as part of a failed scheme to kill Hamlet himself.
I’m 90% sure she is reaching out, just poorly. She’s trying to grasp onto something like faith when she just does not see it anymore (even if that reason is petty or bad or whatever your personal opinion is). Though I think it could be read that lashing out, since she’s also kind of tearing down the concept of faith.
Honestly it could be both simultaneously. She’s been through a lot and people who are going through depressive episodes are not exactly paragons of logic.
As an atheist, I sometimes envy people who are able to have faith in a religious concept without needing demonstratable supporting evidence. I think I’m not wired for that level of faith.
For me, the issue is less faith and more belief in what it is and how you relate to it. But then I don’t define faith as “trust despite evidence or in absence of it.” Just trust in general.
Why envy? Why would you want to believe anything without evidence?
I mean, as an atheist myself, I WOULD be comforted by the idea that SOMEONE was going to make everything right and fair and just in some afterlife. That’s a highly comforting idea!
Reminds me of a line from Mira Grant’s novel Deadline, when Shaun wishes he could believe in God just so he’d know that when they finally got through everything, there’d be somebody he could punch in the face at the other end.
What Big Z said. So many derive comfort from their faith. Sometimes it’s like being that kid in class who can’t eat peanut butter, watching everyone enjoy their sandwiches.
But then I remember my opinion that far more harm has been done in the name of religion than beneficial actions.
Y’know, I’d go so far as to say that there’s a big, bright line between wishing one could believe in “promises of an afterlife/perfect divine justice” (comforting, actually) and wishing one could believe in “any religion as actualized in the world we live in” (often suspect at best).
Because it can be quite taxing to research stuff when you wish to form an opinion on something.
Having premade opinions and not having to fact check things people say is so much less work!
Shush.
It would be comforting to be able to believe everything happens for a reason, that there’s a guiding hand with a plan to it all.
But so many encounter so much misfortune for me to blindly accept that. If there’s a plan, it looks like a haphazard one, and poorly executed to boot.
The grim, objective reality is, nothing happens for a reason; everything actually happens, for an incalculably large number of concurrent, interconnected reasons, and that vast web of discrete individual probabilities is so inscrutable to us as mere individual beings, that it is necessarily indistinguishable from chaos. So, the idea of everything being chaos, is terrifying; but, the idea of everything not being chaos, yet still being unknowable, is perhaps even more terrifying.
Once again, hitting nails right on their heads.
I have long thought/believed that the desire for a simple answer that makes sense (to one’s existing biases) for things that are actually unfathomably complex is behind a lot of conspiracy thinking.
But most of it is just racism or some other sort of bigotry. 🙁
Oh you’re absolutely right about that. Conspiracy theories are an attempt to make order out of chaos, because there is nothing that freaks our lizard brains out more than uncertainty. To some people, belief in any order, even an evil order (like believing the world is controlled by lizard people) is preferable to chaos.
Someone has been watching Pantheon! Great show.
💯% this right here.
I dont know about the rest of you, but I’m getting the feeing Asma is strong, disciplined, and admirable.
“I would be a shambles” is nonsense
it should “I would be in shambles”
Shambles is a state of disorder, so “I would be a shambles” means “I’d be a mess” — it is more often used after “in”, but I don’t think it’s wrong. Could be an Indiana dialect thing; I always thought “What in hell?” as opposed to “What (in) the hell?” was a little weird too
English is defined by use. Nounification is a standard move.
I think Hell, being a proper noun, should be capitalized. “What in Hell?” or “What in the Hell?”
“What the hell” seems to have once been a euphemism for “what the devil”, explaining the strange grammar – “in hell” is the one that makes sense.
I thought it was the opposite. In the original Star Trek, they say “what the devil” all the time, but they were only allowed to use the word “hell” once.
Willis/Asma are correct.
I did not know this!
If I’m in a room that is a shambles, is it OK to describe myself as being in a shambles?
I would be a shamble
everyday im shamblin
That page is exclusively about places, not people. It also… doesn’t even try to argue for why anything should be preferred.
“Linguo *is* dead.”
i_understood_that_reference.gif
other than dina being ‘uptight ‘ about not using apostrophes/contractions or so, language /eng can be bs sometimes so other than someone writing an offenseive accent i wouldn’t think anyone other than english majors would bother doing ‘perfect grammar’ allthe time in casual comvo anyways
A google ngram search shows usage of “a shambles” as early as 1889. I also looked at several dictionaries just now and all of them included example sentences without in.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22a+shambles%22&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3.
James Davis Nicoll: “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.”.
Becky is the new Ethan.
Ethan’s escape from Goth Nightwingdom happens when he’s in a toy store and someone talks about Arcee isn’t a real Transformer because Transformers are all men.
I feel like if any member of the bat family is goth and/or emo it’d be Jason Todd.
’emo-ness’/grieving aside did ethanrenounce his faith or so? altho i wouldn’t think he was especially practincg or so
I think Reltzik is referring mainly to the ’emo-ness’ rather than anything else. Both are gay, both are sad.
Happy Birthdays Willis Twins
Yeah naw Becky’s rubbing me wrong this page. “All ‘o this” is just a pretty messed up way to describe an adherence to someone practicing their faith. And that’s assuming that Asma IS practicing any faith by wearing a Hijab (which I assume is what Becky is referencing).And yeah it feels really backhandedly dismissive of Asma’s faith. Even if that’s not her intention. Which is all exacerbated because…well. Becky and Asma aren’t friends. Or even acquaintances probably.
Except the conversation indicates sufficient familiarity to indicate that they are acquaintances.
ehh….
Honestly as someone who works the drive through at a restraunt there’s plenty of customers who know my names and know little things about me/I know things about them that I wouldn’t really consider “acquaintances”.
So you’re acquainted with them without being acquaintances?
Oddly enough, I understand the distinction you’re making.
Or it indicates Becky’s being excessively familiar.
Because we don’t know, it feels differently to different readers.
Why do I get the feeling Asma is having her “Rosencratz and Guildenstern” moment in this chapter? She and Becky aren’t friends and I personally would be HIGHLY offended at this conversation of “Wow, you still believe in God? Must be nice.” Especially since Asma doesn’t even know the context to WHY Becky renounced her faith.
Asma doesn’t want to know.
crantz
wreath, not scratching
“Why do these freshman keep talking to me?”
I “hear” Becky as being envious of Asma’s connection to Allah, not mocking.
Who’s the redhead?
Ruth
Goddamn, I miss Ruth. She’s so hot.
Have no fear, I am sure she’ll be back eventually… she just needed a sabbatical. Last I heard she’s enjoying some recreational femur collecting. Gotta take time for yourself once in a while, y’know?
Beatrice, I think.
🎶Ron… Ron… Ron WEASley.🎶
this was meant as a reply to taffy, god dang it bobby…
You have invoked Potter Puppet Pals!
Carla.
Aw, Becky… 🙁
I’m confused, doesn’t Asma’s religion condemn same-sex love? And she herself is interested in another woman?
So did Becky’s.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-12/01-sister-christian/inside/
For some people, their religious beliefs aren’t based around what their religion says about gay people, or whether the events in their holy books are a one-to-one reflection of reality, but instead based on the lessons inside. Being kind to others, helping the poor, discipline. I’m not religious myself, so I can’t entirely understand it, but my best friend is a gay man who is also Christian, and despite Fundamentalists condemning his feelings for other men, he gets something from Christianity that means a lot to him. In this strip, Asma herself is stating that she finds strength in her devotion, like perhaps her hijab is her shield against a society, culture, and people who take one look at her and immediately come to unsavory conclusions.
But Christianity is fundamentally different from Islam in that I thought Islam openly denounces homosexuality?
A lot of Christians also openly denounce homosexuality. Some might even say the vast majority of them do. They use the Bible as their evidence as well. I can’t say as far as Islam goes, I’m not incredibly informed on Islam as a religion but as far as I’m concerned, if there are gay people who still identify as Christian despite other Christians blaming them for natural disasters, boycotting their right to get married and adopt children, insisting they deserve death for being themselves, then why can’t a sapphic woman still identify as Islamic despite them denouncing her as well?
I don’t know where you’re from Miroku, but you gotta keep in mind, I’m from the South. Trust me; there are lots of Fundamentalist Christians here who still hate and denounce homosexuality. I once had to keep my mouth shut during a family dinner while my grandma’s friend started rambling about how “Gays ruined the rainbow. They took God’s symbol and they twisted it for their agenda”. After gay marriage was legalized I saw lots of instances in the news where after a natural disaster, people were coming out to protest with signs saying “This tornado/flood/hurricane is God’s punishment for us legalizing gay marriage”. My best friend who is gay and Christian? His step-mother is also Christian, but she’s more fundie style and she once called my best friend up to cry to him about how she didn’t know if her deceased lesbian aunt was going to heaven or not. Again, despite my best friend also being gay, implying she was on the fence if he was going to heaven as well.
Re; the comment about the rainbow, whenever I hear fundies complain that “gays stole the rainbow from God,” I can’t help but feel like that is counterproductive, because that just makes them sound cool as Hell. That is some Kratos meets Ocean’s 11 type shit. You saying my friends are MtG/DnD planeswalkers?!
It does sound pretty badass. I’ve responded with, “Look, we also promise not to flood the Earth again.”
Pffft, gays didn’t cause the Flood, silly. Every “World of Darkness” nerd knows the wickedness that prompted the Great Deluge was vampires. Y’all motherhumpers need to brush up on your Book of Nod.
Everything I choose to know about vampires suggests overlap between the groups.
Funny thing is, the World of Darkness nerds are closer to Biblically accurate.
Genesis tells us it was because of the sons of God having sex and children with the daughters of man. Monsters are more the reason than queers.
My point also wasn’t “oh, yeah, we caused the flood the first time” … like, even as the joke, that’s not what’s being said. Unless you’re saying that’s a stance/thought some people actually have? It’s not something I’ve ever encountered.
This isn’t a condemnation, as people say most religious people don’t adhere 100% to every tenet of their Holy Book, but the Quran is much more explicate about homosexuality being Haram (sinful) than than the Bible. On the other hand, homosexuality was often seen as a very minor sin in historical Islamic societies, the punishment for being caught being as lenient as a small fine (though this obviously varied over centuries). The modern extreme stance in the Islamic world actually has it’s origins from when those countries where under European colonial and Soviet control and enforced anti-homosexuality laws (though this is not the only contributing factor).
https://www.hrc.org/resources/stances-of-faiths-on-lgbt-issues-islam
It’s complicated. That said my experience in a non western Muslim majority country is that sunni orthodoxy still considers LGBTQ a sin. At best you get that LGBTQ Muslims must never act on their urges. This i should does not mean disapproval of non Muslim LGBTQ, but obviously they may differ if the LGBTQ person is a coreligionist.
Much like Christianity, there are all kinds of Muslim opinions on LGBtTQ+ folks.
More than half of American Muslims think that homosexuality is fine, and frankly there are even fewer parts of the Quran and Hadiths that concern homosexuality than there are in the Bible, and they’re even more ambiguous.
That said, I am geeky l genuinely curious if the percentage changes if they are asked if they are fine with LGBTQ in society at large versus LGBTQ within Islam, because my non American experience suggests that people do change their answer depending on if they LGBTQ person in question is Muslim or not.
The study I saw only asked “should homosexuality be accepted by society”, not “should Islam do so”.
Yes, that’s a very different question than “should homosexuality within islam be accepted by practicing Muslims” when asked of people aware they live in a multi religious society . Least I checked liberal LGBTQ accepting mosques are still very much considered unorthodox even in the united states’ vs mosques that accept LGBTQ exists and should be accepted but not practiced by Muslims of faith
This is not true, the passages from the Bible that are often used to justify homophobia are much more explicate in the equivalent versions found in the Quran even in the original Classical Arabic.
Okay first off, in what way does Islam “openly denounce” homosexuality that Christianity doesn’t?
Second, I’m gonna introduce you to a mind-blowing concept: you don’t have to follow every rule your religion gives you. Otherwise we wouldn’t be seeing Christians eating ham with their golden cross necklaces and Jesus tattoos wearing polycotton blends, across the dinner table from their menstruating wife. You are in fact, despite what debate perverts like Richard Dawkins will tell you, allowed to pick and choose what feels right for you. Because religion is deeply personal at the end of the day.
I mean, the Christian argument is essentially most Old Testament rules are obsolete because Jesus gave us the cheat codes.
That was the whole point of Jesus. To come along and say “you don’t need to follow these rules to get to heaven, just follow me”.
Really the stranger thing is how Christians think some of the old rules apply but not others. “gay bad” but “pork okay”. The argument I’ve heard is that they read the bible and see some Old testament content as referring just to “local laws” whereas other section instructs us on “natural laws”… Which seems to me like just a way to rationalize the cherry picking. Especially when you consider that the prohibition on pork isn’t treated as just “this is against the rules” but is actively treated as something disgusting. “unclean” seems just as much a statement about “natural law” as “abomination”.
The most interesting argument I have ever heard about old testament laws is they are a “practical applications of God’s will in the context of which they were written” and it is the job of people to work backwards from the law to the will, and then re apply it to modern contexts. Kind of a spirit of the law vs letter of the law thing.
So under that logic you can look at dietary laws like no pork, recognize that at the time Pork (and shellfish) were a particularly dangerous meat to consume due to food borne illness. You could then work backward and say the underlying will was that people wouldn’t get sick/die from bad food and conclude that since in a modern context Trichinosis is not as much a concern you can now eat pork without violating the actual will behind the rule.
It’s especially hypocritical when you consider the story where the food prohibitions are lifted (Acts 10). Peter is about to meet a centurion who wants to join the faith; he has a vision of prohibited animals and is commanded to eat them: “Do not call anything unclean that God has made clean.” Then the centurion shows up and Peter EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT THE VISION MEANT.
“He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.”
So it’s explicitly explained right there in the story that you’re not supposed to call people unclean based on the old laws. Pretty ironic that it’s now the proof text of choice for “pork ok, gays bad”
You’re also making a category error here, in that neither Christianity nor Islam are anything even close to monolithic.
Look if they don’t want men to be gay they shouldn’t tell us to look at Christ and think about how beautiful he is and how much we love him.
they literally said “don’t be gay, just take this androgynous twink, and hold him within your heart always”
Scholars disagree. Historically Islam was was less homophobic than Christianity but in the past couple centuries fundamentalists kind of took over.
Also you might want to think about why you would think that about Asma’s religion but not Becky’s.
I would like this comment pinned at the top of every comment page pls.
Well we’re not “a couple of centuries ago”, we’re here and now, where even Turkiye and my own country are backsliding. But yes, you can find some countries where christian based homophobia is wielded by the state and people in the same fashion, now including Trumps America so…welp.
i’m glad somebody said it, because it’s really not my place
Homosexuality was always considered Haram, but of all the things that are considered Haram it was seen as one of the most negligible, the punishment often being a small fine.
ironically fundamentalist Islam seems to have spread as far as it has in no small part due to White Christian Colonialism in the middle east 👀
I am going to scream. Why are you people so allergic to the idea of people practicing an individualized version of religion. And why the fuck don’t you say this about fucking, BECKY, who had a whole god damn. ARC about that shit? This nebulous version of Islam asma practices (we don’t even know what sect she is, if any) supposedly condemns homosexuality, but no one ever says this about Becky, or sierra who’s part of a lesbian polycule. Does the Quran even say anything about homosexuality or are you just making assumptions like every other westerner with no clue about Islam?
I mean we already know Becky was evangelical and now attends a mainstream liberal Church like Lucy , and Sierra is very obviously from a pretty chill denomination, if she can be said to have a denomination at all. there’s nothing new to be added about it.
Re Islam though, I admit I’m not a westerner (I’m not Muslim either) and while I’m quite aware there are mosques in the us that are accepting of LGBTQ, and more that are accepting of LGBTQ in broader society but not as an acceptable practice in the religion, i think it’s fair to say contemporary orthodox islam does generally have views on LGBTQ that at best translate to “you can think it but you can’t act on it” at best.
Okay but you see how you’re not asking the question “how can Becky like women while being part of a homophobic faith”, right? Why are we not applying the heuristic “oh asmas religious and queer, she probably follows a non homophobic reading of the text/mosque/whatever. Like, there’s a certain amount of flexibility being applied to the Christian queer characters that isn’t being applied to this Muslim queer character.
Orthodox Christianity also has very negative views on queerness. Newsflash, the orthodoxy for abrahamic religions tends to be pretty conservative! Yet we don’t paint every practicing Jewish or Christian character with the same brush based on what the fundamentalists say
I have never at any point said anything disparaging about Asma as a person, nor have I made any negative statements about how she chooses to practice her faith. I *have* however attributed some of Asma’s positive qualities to her faith, such as her stated views on restraint and not doing things just because you can. It is certainly not Asma’s fault there exist orthodoxy that is very much not progressive on LGBTQ issues, i have never said such a thing nor do i find it a great mystery that asma can be a nuanced human person that does not follow to the letter every edict of her faith.
But yes, what I have said, is make commentary that mainline and orthodox sects of islam do tend to, at best, hold a position that LGBTQ is something a adherant may well think or accept, but they have to accept that it is not something they can practice. that there exist more liberal sects is not something I have denied, other than to note that they are still a comparative minority and not orthodox in the broader context of the muslim world. I’m fairly certain we are not going to get a storyline where asma must reconcile this with a sect that is of the view that LGBTQ cannot be practices becuase relations must only be within marriage withing the context of Islam, and since Islam is very clear marriage is only between man and woman, LGBTQ muslims have to accept that. this is not something I made up, it is part of the theology. now obviously there exist movements to change this, but even then, they know they are fighting against orthodoxy.
I think a lot of this is that you’re very caught up in sects and religious movements as a whole, versus the individual and their beliefs. That it is accepted that Becky and Sierra can be Christian and gay but Asma is so scrutinized does speak to some level of Othering of Muslims to me. You may not intend that, but that’s frankly how you come across because you’re so wrapped up in trying to explain the sects of Islam that are anti-homosexuality as if those same sects don’t exist for Catholics, Christians, and Judaism. When the question is “How can character be religious and gay at the same time”, the answer is obviously “they believe in the spirit of the religion but disapprove of and abhor the parts that hate them”. Even if that is the minority choice for that religious doctrine, that’s still completely possible to do.
I certainly never said it was impossible. I did say that it would be interesting if we had to see how Asma personally reconciles that aspect, *if* she is from a sect or family that is mainstream. But fair enough. I don’t bother doing the same for christians and catholics because there’s plenty of christians and catholics to speak on those topics here. I obviously know they exist.
That said, fine, I obviously have my own axes to grind about political islam and enforcement of islamic morality laws by secular legal authorities that is irrelvent to the united states, so there’s that.
Honestly, this is one the most annoying things about the nutters in any group. They tend to be the loudest, most obnoxious portion, so those outside of the metaphorical “tent” assume they speak for the whole, but that has never true because no grouping of more than one person is monolithic because that is not how humans have ever worked.
PS. for those who want an example of how one can be both Muslim and queer, I can do y’all one better and give you a name you can look up; Canadian author Irshad Manji.
Boom. Right there, a lesbian that practices Islam in the IRL. Asma may be a fictional character, but people like her are not some imaginary revisionist pipe dream. Queer Muslims do exist, and they are valid.
hxxps: // dailycampus.com/2025/02/25/irshad-manji-and-the-dishonesty-of-uconns-metanoia/
I’m not entirely sure she’s the best example here? But yeah, i am aware her most famous works are critiques of contemporary islam, it’s literally the title of her first book? (which for obvious reasons most muslim countries have banned. seriously, the US still has a long way to go on the crushing of civil discourse stakes)
anyway. from that article:
“Now, with that being said, it’s worth going back to the speaker chosen to facilitate such discourse on the subject. Irshad Manji stepped into prominence with the publication of her first book “The Trouble with Islam,” wherein she advocates for the reform of Islam. Since then, she has become one of the most prominent critics of the current state of the religion and “Arab culture” more broadly. She has faced criticism from some scholars for “disproportionately targeting Muslims” and becoming a tool for “anybody who wants to smear Islam and bash Muslims.” This is already a poor start for a speaker chosen to lead discussions within the context of the current conflict, as it is not hard to see how her beliefs on Islam could alienate many of the Muslims on this campus who this Metanoia would hope to bring into civil discourse.
Additionally, she has published specifically pro-Israel positions throughout the past decades. For example, in 2006 Manji published an op-ed in the New York Times entitled, “How I Learned to Love the Wall,” where she actively defended the West Bank Wall and blamed Palestinians for its creation. She furthers the pretext of defense that was used to justify the wall’s creation, while ignoring how it is both illegal under international law and was originally created with the explicit intention of stealing large swaths of land from Palestinians. She also frequently defended the state of Israel in “The Trouble with Islam” and specifically its treatment of Palestinians.
Irshad Manji, founder and chief executive of the Moral Courage Network. Photo from events.uconn.edu
The point here is not to disparage one traveling professor’s views but rather question why Manji was chosen to lead a content neutral discussion for this Metanoia when she herself is so clearly biased. If this is the university’s way of dealing of Israel and Palestine, then does their invitation of a speaker clearly on one side of things not reveal something about their position as well? It rings hollow that Metanoia is meant to bring people together when the idealistic language presenting it is underwritten by a complete lack of actual impartiality. The point of criticism is a disappointing lack of oversight into how this event was created, given the current political context on campus and the weight it holds to so many. If UConn wants to address how these events affect its community, it should choose programming that better reflects a desire to have an unbiased discussion. Having Manji, who has a strong public record of supporting one side of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, attempt to advocate for neutral debate over that same issue exposes the bias problem at the heart of this Metanoia. “
Yeah I think that’s also part of the disconnect. For you Muslims that are anti LGBTQ are nutters. For me they are elected politicians and neighbors and coworkers. I will certainly not call them nutters to thier face!
I live in the American south. Both my elected politicians and neighbors are nutters.
My deepest sympathies, comrade.
I will add that yes, you can find where I have said that it would be interesting to see how Asma reconciles things given that she does choose to wear a hijab, for whatever reason. yes, it could be purely cultural, yes, it could be because she feels it is a link to her heritage and practice, it may be because of modesty and so on so forth. THere is a reason why that is noted in mainstream islamic theology for why hijab, but again, of course this is subject to various interpretations, and it is actually not mandatory to wear a hijab. is it *fair* to presume there is at least some religious motivation behind it? well, ymmv i suppose. but if you wear a obvious crucifix or cross i would think there is *some* motivation there that’s at least partly religious.
re the other characters – i think the most interesting one is actually Agatha, though i would note a few points:
1) she’s clearly not in Utah. and even if she were, iirc SLC for example is still a major urban area and so not quite as conservative as the rest of the state?
2) she wore pants to church, which is now, to my understanding, increasingly acceptable, where previously it was not. that at least indicates a progressive mindset, abeit one in line with changing societal values (in this sense, it’s like Lucy – she’s not being incredibly radical in 2025 for being religious yet willing to have sex outside marriage with a bit of nonsensical “rules”). its treated as a sort of ecccentric affection because that is what it is
anyway, yes, we’ll see where the comic goes with this. going to be interesting regrdless
As a side note, do we know that Becky and Lucy attend a “mainstream liberal church”? It was culty enough to send Walky running for the door and we know that earlier Becky talked with Jacob about preferring the familiar form of her old church, even if the doctrine wasn’t great.
Believe me, I went to a super liberal Presbyterian service once (a friendsked me) and the second the hymns started and people started throwing their hands in the air, closing eyes in seeming bliss, swaying gently while singing, some or all?
Every skin cell I had wanted to crawl off my body. It felt culty. But it was not.
On that day, I realized that the only functional difference between ‘real religion’ and ‘looney cult’ is subscriber count.
The Quran follows the Old Testament which has a ‘kill on sight’ policy.
But then again that is the same punishment of those who work on Sunday AND its a commandment and yet 7-11 stays true to its name.
Yeah I’m with you tbh, and some of these comments are reeking of Islamophobia, even if it’s not intended. Like, if you haven’t practiced or studied the religion of Islam I do not think you get to say shit about it’s alleged “rules.” Especially considering how pervasive Islamophobic propaganda has been in the West. Folks in the comments maybe need to check themselves before talking about something they don’t know about and just perpetuating harm.
I have trouble relating to this strip, because religion has never been a source of strength for me. And I feel like even if Becky and Asma both stopped believing in their religions, they would find other good sources of strength soon enough.
It’s honestly not easy to find a new one when your old one leaves, regardless of what it is or whether it’s healthy. In a religious context it’s part of “convert zeal” (and outside of that context why, say, people like Becky will sometimes explode out of the closet).
Unfortunately this is one of those things where you kinda have to accept that other people have weird shit and evaluate it on its actual (not assumed) toxicity to self and others, and for Becky it’s been, more or less, healthy but insifficient
I struggled with losing religion and ended up regaining it once I found anarchism and my religious beliefs aligned. It just confuses the hell out of both groups now.
Holy shit, you too? That’s how it was for me! 😀
Huh!
Being aroace, I have trouble relating to any strip involving love or lust (of which there are many in Dumbing of Age). Sometimes we have to just accept that different people find different things important, even if they seem incomprehensible to us.
I think maybe we could examine how “religion” is conceptualized in Western Society. “Religion” as something discrete, classifiable, and separable from politics/economics/culture/law etc… is a relatively recent development.
And because it is a product of Western society, this conception of religion often fails to mesh well with other cultural understandings of faith, ethics, justice, governance, ritual, etc…
It’s one of those things that is interesting when Americans talk to people in other cultures, especially non-European.
“I don’t believe in any deities.”
“I don’t believe either.”
“So you’re an atheist?”
“No!”
In the U.S. we have “freedom of religion”… except we define “religion” as “Christianity or something similar to Christianity”.
Poor Becks is not ok. That dejected slump at the end as she’s walking away is very expressive.
Oh wow. I sort of predicted it a bit yesterday.
And continuing the now decade-long trend, that means we’re about a month out from my tenth anniversary of children too.
Losing religion is hard as hell, but also, it’s kind of the “death of the author” argument, in that most religion is so deeply entrenched in the worst elements that truly disentangling feels just about impossible. But, well, I guess we had the whole Good Place to run us through the idea of whether it’s possible to make truly 100% ethical choices in the modern world.
Oh, that varies.
What, like… to play? Or to listen to? Because gonna have to disagree on that second one because that song slaps.
REM is usually a solid choice for your playlist.
Actually, to any guys struggling with finding a karaoke song because of range limitations, you can take a stab at this song; IIRC, the breadth of the vocal range on this song is less than a full scale of notes, so if that’s your sticking point, it might be for you!
I lost my religion when I realized that as an adult I didn’t have to obey Lent anymore and bought that fuckin’ hot dog on a Friday.
”Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday” is a tenet I can go along with. Hail Eris! Hail Discordia!
hell yeah
Friday, any day, always good with plenty of mustard :9
it’s funny in my case cuz even tho I haven’t committed to being kosher in years, I have them with kosher franks and dont add cheese regardless cuz thats how i like em best lol
Best reason to eat kosher. I approve.
*all the hugs for Becky* :_(
——
But also – Happy Birthday, for the kids, Willis! 😀
Baron Von Trapp: “A full decade of CHILDREN?!!”
Becky converting to whichever is the gayest branch of Islam story when.
You’re cooking with gas here
Asma doesn’t direct quote Becky’s twang in panel 2.
Her saying “Allah this” would be bad.
I like Asma’s perspective. I don’t believe in a higher power, but what she’s saying reminds me of what I’ve seen and heard from the resistance fighters in Palestine, who also seem to clearly *gain* strength from their faith. I empathize with Becky and would probably have responded similarly at her age. Great comic today, Willis.
Imagine Becky as voiced by Bobby Hill
The actress is named Pamela Adlon!
I think Becky might find Judaism fulfilling
as a personal spirituality, perhaps yes
hell some great news is, she don’t even gotta believe in God again for that to happen
I can’t believe Children has been going for over ten years at this point
somebody send me the youtube link for “Robert Miles – Children – 10 years,” i need some background music for a bit
heh. I don’t know of any ten year (or even 1 hour) cuts of that, but it is a long-time favorite of mine, which I first encountered by happy accident at a roller skate rink (remember those?).
I suspect Becky’s disillusionment is deeper than “I can’t get the girl I want so there must be no God”. Maybe something about, God wouldn’t have set up such a system in the first place? But I don’t understand the underpinnings of Becky’s religious faith, so I can’t guess. If you dig into why individuals are religious, even say specifically evangelical presbyterian Christians, there’s a really wide variety of actual reasons and beliefs. Like, ask them how big and influential an angel is, or where souls come from, or whether it makes a difference if you pray out loud, or has God told them anything and how. So I can’t guess where Becky’s coming from.
Obviously I’m taking shots in the dark like everyone but to me this reads like her current depression and disillusionment is multi faceted.
One aspect being the obvious doubting of her faith which I think is just a case of the straw that broke the camels back. With one more thing that didn’t go a way she views as fair or just (either Joyce not wanting her or Joyce’s coming out being relatively easier than hers)
The other aspect she seems to view these events as trials, like some entity is testing her. I think she views herself a little like Job to use a biblical analogy. Except she’s a Job that failed, who didn’t have enough faith. So in addition to the world view shift of losing her religious cornerstone she also views losing that faith as failing some grand cosmic test.
indeed, atheist or not, Becky is still operating intuitively under the fundamentalist narrative which posits evil exists in this universe to test her integrity, for which passing or failing is held against her, leading to this vicious cycle of self-deprecation
and ngl, this is oh so familiar to me, with so many high high and low lows in my life at one point, the cycle became so accelerated that I became self aware of it,
and was eventually like
you know what this just ain’t for me, this is just making me paranoid when my physical and mental health are already low as they are, fuck it im just not gonna be religious this way or even at all