however, no matter which way I cut it, I’m a stater (“””American”””), and having grown up in this imperialist country is something which will continue to inform my view of the world, no less than being Jewish.
“Okay, class. We’re going to discuss inherent power dynamics and why they impact the level of consent actually possible in a given situation. Any questions?”
*hands go up*
“Any questions that aren’t about me getting fired?”
*hands go down*
“Gender is a social construct, much like the British class system.”
(Blank looks)
“Okay, so the monarch is supposed to be the ultimate authority, chosen by God, but since the 17th century we don’t talk about that last bit much, and if they ever act like it we have a civil war and then execute them. The monarch’s family is considered beyond reproach, unless they offend the wrong people or their wrongdoing becomes impossible to deny, in which case the tabloids will “suddenly discover” how awful they are.
“Below the royals, there’s the nobility, which consists of people who did favours for recent governments, people whose ancestors did favours for ancient monarchs, people whose family have owned land for long enough that their ownership has become part of the fabric of government, and senior bishops. These are also chosen by God, except possibly the bishops.
“The upper middle class developled when …. why is nobody taking any notes?”
(His political science lecture is just “Congratulations for developing a form of representational demoncracy that makes ours look positively coherent.”)
The joke is that in the alt verse Dorothy arranged for a confused Jason to teach Gender Studies for Leslie, and Roz and Joyce to teach Political Science for Robin. And Leslie assumed they’d done it as pictured. And Dorothy had a “Blargh, yes, that would have made more sense, wouldn’t it? 😬” moment.
Although [insert link to Roz telling Dorothy she’s the people’s choice to replace Ruth because she’s been living politics since forever and is warm and doesn’t treat them like a creepy tick box exercise] Roz might argue that she’s qualified to teach both!
The most important lesson you should take from any humanities class (especially these days considering the political climate): just because it doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it’s not worth knowing.
Don’t think so. The room-mate is Mindy who has an unrequited crush on Anna and would probably be delighted for Leslie to go away or rot in jail. The most likely scenario is that Mindy “forgot” to mention it to Anna.
Is it still classified as an unrequited crush if they’re exes, and Mindy’s been consistently portrayed as recognising Anna is bad news but being too much of a doormat to do anything about it, until she saw Anna negging Leslie and that finally gave her enough nerve to ask Leslie out before she made the same mistake Mindy did?
I kinda feel like Anna found out about Leslie getting caught at the protest and disapproves. If only because that’s the Maximum Dramatic Consequences outcome.
I kinda suspect that Anna is just being an uncaring asshole. That has really been her most prominent character trait.
We’ve got Mindy who tries to treat everyone well because she is afraid no one will ever love her, and we’ve got Anna who treats everyone poorly because… who knows.
And if they’ve known each other that long, Anna’s behavior could be explanatory for Mindy’s insecurity. Frequently being insulted and belittled is not good for self-esteem.
I will say if I we want to take more objective perspectives here it’s more likely Anna was just busy or slightly uncaring. She works, we don’t really know much of their relationship dynamics, so yeah. It also seems slightly out of character she would be cheating with Mindy, both their characterizations imply that’s not likely. Anna doesn’t seem into Mindy sexually or romantically (Mindy has unattractive caterpillar eyebrows according to Anna) if she actually likes anyone and Mindy seems too passive and afraid of upsetting people or asserting herself to play an active role in infidelity, this assuming Anna and Leslie are even monogamous which is a detail of their relationship we also don’t know. Cheating would be a surprise. It would be a very interesting development if it happens.
I just don’t trust Anna cause I don’t like her and no showing her partner being in jail doesn’t help her appeal.
“Anna doesn’t seem into Mindy sexually or romantically (Mindy has unattractive caterpillar eyebrows according to Anna)”
If she isn’t, she was at some time. These two used to date.
Also, Leslie has an unattractive big nose according to Anna, so “Mindy has thick eyebrows” is not really indicative of anything, except that Anna is an asshole, and unlike Mike she isn’t even FUNNY about it.
Hmm… Robin might use it as an opportunity to claim she’s really straight after all. Then Hank comes out as trans, having had the benefit of some introspection time away from Carol, and Robin finds herself even more attracted to her now-revealed-to-be-girlfriend. Mental gymnastics result, until it’s no longer funny, before they settle into being a sweet old lesbian couple.
You mean Mindy, Anna’s ex who works under her, and therefore still has her completely enmeshed with her life, who recognizes that Anna is an incredibly toxic person but still hasn’t found the strength (or support system tbh) to finally cut her out, who is a self described doormat that folds to whatever Anna wants, and probably still gets insane dopamine hits off of love kernels (thanks for that terminology cxg) from her? Yeah I’d say that vastly increases the chances of cheating actually.
On a side, god I hope Mindy makes some friends that can maybe convince her to get therapy, and can give her a couch to sleep on so she can finally leave Anna.
I approve of this, but only if Joey develops an inexplicable new jersey accent that is necessary for his identity. maybe i can be haggled down to boston.
Compulsory heterosexuality. In short, society teaches most kids that being straight is the norm and good, and everything else is weird and bad, so a shitton of people don’t realize they’re not straight until after they’ve attempted a lot of het stuff without ever pausing to wonder about their sexuality at all.
Wanna note that this entire concept messed me up as a kid because being anywhere on the ace-spectrum gets you othered by society through heteronormativity and specifically the idea in media that what makes us human is our capacity to love. Specifically romantic love.
And while I was able to dicover I was demi and am now in a very happy relationship. As a baby ace I basically kept forcing myself into relationships I ended up breaking off because it felt like that was what was expected of me and it realy messed me up for a while that I kept breaking people’s hearts for just not being able to love them the same way the loved me, and that something must’ve been wrong with me for not feeling that same connection.
like I had a great support network and my parents from a young age told me they’d support me whether i’d bring a boyfriend or a girlfriend home and somehow still I felt completely lost cuz I was fully unaware that the ace-spectrum was also an option
Same experience minus the demi happy relationship. I am so far in the ace spectrum that even kissing grosses me out, so attempting to date for years was both extremely uncomfortable and just hurting everyone trying to get close because I had no idea asexuality existed in humans and everything around me was telling me that the MOST IMPORTANT THING is being in a romantic relationship and having sex. All the awful people who say kids won’t be gay if they aren’t taught about being gay have no idea what lack of information does to people who can’t help what they are.
Gotta do a big SAME with my fellows ace-spec people. I’m sex-repulsed asexual and biromantic but when I was younger I definitely tried to fit in with my peers and felt compelled to be in a relationship with guys. I also find kissing disgusting and no amount of kisses from my ex-boyfriends appealing. Granted, one of them blew so much air into my mouth that my cheeks inflated and the other wielded his tongue like it was a dead fish but bad kissing aside… I just felt nothing, man.
Seriously tho it and comp sexuality need to be talked about in the same breath as their hetero equivalents. But I don’t think the lady that coined the term believed in asexuals to begin with. Or bisexuals iirc
“Compulsory heterosexuality, often shortened to comphet, is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal, allonormative, and heteronormative society.”
Compulsory heterosexuality. It’s the thing where the culture assumes you’ll be straight as a default, doesn’t teach you that there are other options, and you get a people dating people of the opposite sex bc that’s what they’re supposed to do and not because they’re deeply enthusiastic about doing that. There’s more there, but it think that’s the gist.
Compulsory heterosexuality is a concept first articulated by influential feminist theorist Adrienne Rich, which asserts that heterosexuality, as the societal default, is essentially forced upon people, and that this hegemonic heterosexuality can compel people who are not actually straight to repress their true sexual identity and engage in heterosexual activity in order to confirm to societal expectations. As originally articulated, the concept particularly applies to lesbian experiences, but others have broadened the scope of the concept since.
I have my own quibbles with the concept, not least because Adrienne Rich was a transphobe who helped to write The Transsexual Empire, but some people find it to be a useful framework
While it’s true that the term was coined by a transphobe, the truth behind it remains. It’s one of those things where, in science (even if it’s a social science), you can’t really dismiss something simply behind the person who discovered or created the theory behind it was a piece of shit whose death ultimately benefited the world.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought they were jokingly suggesting that Bill’s distaste for Adrienne Rich wasn’t coming through, and that Bill doesn’t need to be polite about her to spare our delicate sensibilities
Gotcha. And yeah, I have never read that book but man does it sound like a trash fire. There’s a lot of good stuff that came out of first and second wave feminism but man was there a lot of harmful gender essentialist stuff too.
Interesting. I never heard this concept before, just heteronormativity – which seems to cover much of the same really – and before that, heterosexism, which kind of carries the implication that heterosexuality defines our idea of gender.
I think one of the differences in how I see it come up– and this isn’t fully aligned with what I know of the theory, but we’ve established Rich sucks anyway–is that heteronormativity is more external while comphet is more internal. Some queer people I know were big “allies” and informed and stuff before recognizing that they themselves were queer.
Yes, but I can’t exactly articulate it. Heteronormativity more refers to the way society is structured, while Comphet is the reaction to living in a heteronormative world. That’s how I’d make the distinction, anyway.
Stands for Compulsory Heterosexuality, it is basically a thing where because our society views Heterosexuality as the norm there is an assumption that one is Heterosexual and must act Heterosexual, even if not straight, usually manifesting as a pressure to date or think about dating the gender that would see you the most heterosexual. I can go on a huge talk about this from the perspective of both a closeted trans girl who is bi as hell and an open trans woman who is on the sapphic side of bi.
Although I get the concept, I hadn’t heard this term before. (Because I guess I also didn’t take Leslie’s gender studies class.) Yay for learning new things from a webcomic!
i learned a lot myself from clients, friends and gamedev teammates the world around, my university, the OGs Huey Newton and Reverend Martin Luther King Jr (the NON-whitewashed, real one), and of course breadtube (tho I kinda dont like that name for it), especially Ian Danskin’s The Alt-Right Playbook series.
Oh who am I kidding, Leslie’s curriculum doesn’t even account for the fact that Alison Bechdel was an avowed and vocal defender of Michfest and its trans-exclusionary policies
Assholes and bigots often produce things of value. The world is complicated. When you’re just getting people comfortable with an idea is probably not the time to also make sure all of the students know all of the worst ideas the person who coined it has also had. This is an intro class. If those students take more gender studies or queer theory classes they may engage with authors in a more holistic way, but right now they’re getting introduced to concepts that are important in the field. And sometimes those are coined by assholes but they’re still useful. And sometimes those need a lot of contextualization to not do a lot of harm. And sometimes those are worth learning despite being terrible (see: a lot of the feminist discourse around porn) because other ideas build on them in important ways.
Richard K. Morgan was one of my all time favorite authors and then I discovered his horrific transphobia despite being the author of the Altered Carbon series that I felt was incredibly pro-trans.
If it helps, descriptions of reality have no author, only first observers. If the description is true and useful, then you can make the observation for yourself independent of the first observer. Adrienne Rich did not author the concept of compulsory heterosexuality the way Richard K. Morgan authored Altered Carbon, for it is not a product of her imagination but an observation about society that others can make for themselves. Without Morgan there is no Altered Carbon, but without Rich compulsory heterosexuality still exists.
Okay but Leslie is not a real person. The Bechdel test conversation was written by Willis in 2011. I, a trans woman, didn’t even know Bechdel was a terf until just now. I think it is entirely unreasonable for Willis to have been unaware of it, and to be unaware now of the creator of the term comphet
Look buddy you don’t need to convince me that David Willis in 2011 was unaware of Bechdel’s transmisogyny. This isn’t me wagging my finger, this is me blowing off a little bit of steam. No need to make it a federal issue.
Besides, not examining the transmisogyny and lack of intersectionalism in famous white feminists feels pretty par for the course. Then again my university’s curriculum was so behind the times I had to learn freudian theory for my psych degree 🤢 so maybe I’m just projecting
Alison Bechdel is not a TERF for attending Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival. She is supportive of transgender women and has expressed discomfort with MWMF’s trans exclusionary policy. She is not a vocal supporter of that policy.
Like if Bechdel was really so “uncomfortable” with Michfest she could have easily stopped attending, and instead she went every single year until it shut down specifically to avoid having to include trans women. Why did she express support for transphobic radical feminists like Adrienne Rich and Mary Daly? Why did she express support in a eulogy for an open terf friend for that fried celebrating the absence of “male socialization” at Michfest? This is all transmisogyny.
The absence of male socialization she celebrates is because of us adult cis males being excluded from the festival. While it’s infuriating that trans women were banned, the main point of her statement is not “I’m so happy trans women were absent”.
Seems like one of those oh-so-convenient terms that can change its meaning depending on who’s listening. The phrasal counterpart to the motte-and-bailey fallacy.
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply it was ever not transphobic. Like a motte-and-bailey fallacy, it’s got a hypothetically alternative meaning that the bigot can pretend they actually meant, even though they obviously didn’t.
So… guess it was just a roundabout way to redescribe “dog whistle”. I need more sleep, evidently. And maybe stay out of these discussions; you’re a lot more familiar with the subject than I am.
(I pick some bad days to try to interact with the comment section.)
Coming at this from the cis-male side, I cannot think of the last time I heard a cis male talk about “male socialization” in a non-academic-paper context solely involving men, let alone cis men — which is just another data point to say it’s basically always a TERF dog whistle as far as I can tell.
She’s always struck me as that incredibly specific kind of transmisogynist that boils down to “had being trans been more accepted than being lesbian when I was younger, I might have transitioned instead of just being a lesbian, and that idea scares me because I like my gender, so I’m going to always pick whatever course seems more ‘pro-lesbian’ than ‘pro-trans’ if there’s even the slightest whiff of conflict”.
With regards to Michfest specifically, Camp Trans was organized every year as a protest against the festival’s trans-exclusionary policies, organized by figures like Leslie Feinberg. As far as I can tell, Bechdel never attended or showed support. “Discomfort,” indeed.
I wish I had read your comment before I spent like half an hour trying to find evidence of her terf-ness. Based on all I can find she’s made public statements supporting trans women, and included positive portrayals in her comic.
Disappointing, but thank you for sharing. I live in Michigan, and when I was a queer teenager (thinking I was a cis girl) looking things up, I learned about Michfest and was excited for a few moments until I read about the transmisogyny. As far as I knew, I hadn’t even met a trans woman at that point, and I really wanted to have experiences in queer spaces, and I knew I’d never go to Michfest. An adult who’d been involved in the community for a long time doesn’t have an excuse.
It’s worth noting that transmisogyny, like any other bigotry, exists on a spectrum. Being supportive of transwomen, even being a transwoman yourself, does not exempt you from transmisogyny. Alison Bechdel can support transwomen’s right to exist and express themselves and still be a transmisogynist in whatever reservations she has about that right.
Poor Leslie is stuck teaching people to crawl before they can run and unfortunately, her crawling class is probably going to be cancelled by the President suing her school or pre-compliance.
Yayyyyy roz content (a bit disappointed we didn’t see her immediate reaction to Your Sister Went to Prison for Protesting, hoping we still do). I hope we see more of this gender studies class, I feel like they’d bounce off each other in interesting ways
You are being ironic, but does it apply to her? She doesn’t seem to have been into girls growing up.
Of course it may be argued that this is because it wasn’t a thing that was possible in her earlier world view. Even so, the simplest read of what we have seen is that Joyce is bi, and didn’t really develop sapphic crushes before Uni.
If we’re being charitable (to Anna), maybe Leslie hung up before she got around to mentioning the prison thing because I know things are awkward between her and Mindy.
However I would much sooner be charitable to Leslie and assume she was able to say “hey, I am in police custody and need help” even if it was probably pretty awkward.
I have no idea why you would EVER be defensive of Anna, who verbally abused and publicly humiliated a partner (and everyone else) that she is the de facto boss of.
If the college students get into something they shouldn’t, you can’t pick ’em up and move them.
But “one two three, eyes on me” still works the same.
And the college students don’t usually fall over so much, or sneeze straight into your mouth. So that’s nice.
Ok, I know there’s a lot going on in the comic at the moment, but I now want nothing more than for the entire rest of this storyline to just be Roz and Joyce teaching gender studies.
Roz has said she could teach the class, but last time she had to fill in it was awkward because it was about on speaking in place of marginalized people. This time that very specific problem has been solved, sort of!
One of my biggest issues with DOA is that we don’t get to see the classes. I miss seeing the characters take the lessons, have unique interactions and how those lessons would come across in the narrative. Being “in class” is now such an after thought we basically skip over it every time.
Yes and now none of those things are seen. I dont know what your point is. We still curtently have less of the element I liked than the small amount we used to have.
Seconded. I really like seeing characters come into contact with course material and their competencies and incompetencies and have unique reactions to all that stuff. Hopefully we get some more of it this semester.
Carla’s in the class, I believe. And likely heckling these two. (At least until they explain why they’re here. I think she feels guilty enough right now about this specific subject that that might quiet her.)
I don’t know for sure, but I assume at real world colleges and universities when a professor is arrested and banned from campus so they can’t teach their class, either the class would be cancelled or the school would have to quickly find another professor to teach that class.
Only once someone lets the school know! If nobody shows up to teach the people will eventually abandon class on their own. I haven’t heard of a random student declaring that they’re teaching class in their stead so I don’t know how it goes.
Don’t underestimate the ability of the left hand not to know what the right hand is doing. The part of the college responsible for handing down punishments for protesting may not be keeping the part responsible for classes having teachers up to date.
To add to that: they might’ve just made a poorly thought out blanket decision and paid little attention to the results, so in a way, the right hand mightn’t know what the right hand’s doing either.
little surprised at how fast everyones jumped to anna cheating bc mindy picked up the phone. while i dont think its too far out my immediate thought was that anna didnt wanna talk bc shes mad at leslie for attending the protest.
unless anna’s done something similar in the past comics? i just finished shortpacked and im currently in roomies so if thats the case ill see it eventually
Anna’s not in the past continuity so her DoA appearances are all we have to go on.
I don’t think cheating would be out of character, Anna’s pretty consistently been characterized as the worst, but yeah I don’t think there’s much reason to jump to it, and it’s already bad enough as is.
i also dont think its too ooc, but while annas definitely been written as a jerk so far, we havent seen that much of her (shes not even been directly in a strip since 2019) so i would need more info before going “oh its totally XYZ”
yeah, i feel like two rounds of that back to back might be a bit much for the story arc. i also feel like joyce and dorothy are gonna be facing some more consequences for it later, but since this is a daily strip its gonna take a while before we get to it.
I’ll say that I’d be shocked if hypothetical Anna cheating got anywhere near the same response
The cheating stuff got such a massive response because every vertex of that love shape was a sympathetic character that huge chunks of the audience were emotionally invested in and cared about. People had big feelings!
I don’t think people would have those same feelings if Dr. Jerk, the character whose primary trait is being shitty to her girlfriend did something shitty to her girlfriend.
But I don’t know, we can seemingly have heated arguments about even the tiniest little thing, so fucking maybe.
Also, even Leslie is mostly a background character so any cheating is likely to get only a couple of strips of focus, rather than the spotlight for months.
And Leslie is still a more central character than Anna, so a cheating arc would likely focus more on how it hurt Leslie, rather than focusing how cute Anna is with her cheating partner.
LOL, this was funny. I also expect some thirsty readers will jump on to it as ”word of author” that Joyce is ”fully lesbian!” and was just performative with Jacob and Joe… >.<
Compulsory heterosexuality as originally articulated by Adrienne Rich was primarily a lesbian theory. The work was titled “Compulsory Heterosexuality and the Lesbian Existence”
Of course, people can progress the concept away from its origin. Both in terms of extending it in logical ways, and in terms of distancing it from its TERFy originator.
Some bigot put a name on something that already existed and that name spread. I’m not going to shed a tear for her being ignored.
Reading more about her… I probably shouldn’t’ve just dismissed her as “some bigot”. Not ignoring the stupid TERFiness (which was ironic, considering her push for a more flexible and inclusive kind of feminism… but apparently not flexible enough to stop defining women by their bodies), but she did have some good thoughts in other areas.
Which leaves me highly conflicted. But… to be morbidly pragmatic, she’s dead, so we can keep what good she did while rejecting the bad, and she’s not around to complain.
I would agree if the problem was as simple as “she’s a bad person so she should be excluded from the conversation.” But the problem is that her transmisogyny should make us suspicious of anti trans bias in her work. That bias can manifest in obvious ways like overt hostility, but it can also manifest in subtle ways like deliberate or negligent exclusion of trans perspectives. And those subtle biases can be pernicious. Some people may find her work to be sufficiently useful that it’s worth the effort of trying to tease out the transmisogyny, but i will always find it better to seek out other voices instead.
I really haven’t been phrasing stuff well today, have I? My thoughts were more along the lines of… well… not outright rejecting stuff that’d taken inspiration from her if the thoughts so inspired have the transmisogyny already filtered out, I suppose.
Which would essentially amount to seeking other voices, as you said, who may already have suffered through the effort of converting her thoughts into something without the bigotry.
I don’t really know enough of her work to really judge, though, so I suppose this’s just a longwinded way of saying “I agree”.
As to the term “comphet”: we also still use the word “atom” despite them not actually being indivisible. A word can survive being coined by someone who was fundamentally wrong.
It also seems like “in the wild” there’s a lot of folks who deploy “comphet” specifically in a biphobic sense — “no, you don’t actually also like dudes, that’s just comphet”.
That was my previous experience with the use of “comphet” as applied to Joyce and Dorothy- specifically someone who was arguing that it would be regressive and problematic to give any sort of space to Joe & Walky’s feelings about being cheated on because it was more important that Joyce & Dorothy were breaking away from comphet.
Honestly, I think in the right place and time, we as readers could have an *extremely* interesting and productive conversation about how comphet and bisexuality interact using Joyce as an example, but honestly I don’t think this comment section is one these days.
In all honesty, I think there are quite a few people here who could have that discussion, but I think they’d have to really be careful to just ignore the trolls and the vitriolic folks (as opposed to getting into slap-fights with them, and I’m guilty as charged of that myself)
On this subject: I’ve sometimes misphrased stuff badly enough to be mistaken for trolling or being argumentative (perhaps due to lack of experience with people), so… if any of my comments ever seem nasty or unreasonable, please call me out on it.
This’s an open request to anyone who finds one of my comments unreasonable, by the way, not just to Big Z.
Back in the 1990s “therapists” would brainwash young trans women into being comphet stepford-wives by making that behavior a prerequisite just to access medical care including HRT/surgery. Failure to comply resulted in denial of trans medical care entirely at the time. That’s specifically how I didn’t figure out I was a lesbian until i was in my 40s and wasted 25 years of my life on men.
Was still happening to friends of mine in the 2000s, too. There was and is a strain of thought that boils down to “sure, we’ll agree gender is not tied to your chromosomes, but you still have to pick one and do it super conventionally.” that’s incredibly frustrating to watch people go through.
After many many years of being subjected to it, that junk got rooted really deep in my brain which shaped my personality and my hyper feminine gender expression very intensely in life, I’ve spent the last few years unraveling all of that with trauma therapists who no longer believe in that nonsense. It’s difficult for me to just wear a pair of jeans without feeling wrong even today.
Honestly, I can see this working well. ‘Have the students watch as one person is in a direct dialogue with the teacher and gets directly instructed’ is, like, ancient Greek learning tactics, right? If you’re not used to the group-address classroom setting, it feels like a half-decent way to fill in
The last time we saw Roz covering the class, Leslie subtly roasted her by giving her “Performative allyship and the de-amplifying of marginalized voices”. Today we see her acknowledging that a sapphic woman has experience with comphet, but also side-eyeing her like it’s a failing on her part and not something she suffered through.
Weirdly, despite both of those involving being mean to Joyce, I don’t think the fact that it’s Joyce specifically actually plays that much into it.
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re: alt text, LMAO XD
Maybe tomorrow, after a cookie or two. Boxes that is. Or cases.
Meanwhile, in my preferred reality:
Leslie: “Oh, so you let Jason teach Robin’s political science class and Roz and Joyce teach my gender studies class? That’s pretty smart.”
Dorothy: “…You know, come to think of it, that WOULD have been the more logical way to divvy them up, wouldn’t it.”
How is that different from the division in this reality?
I got it backwards because it’s late and I’m dumb. I meant to swap them.
Oh wait, no I didn’t, the joke was supposed to be that Leslie THOUGHT they did the smart thing but Dorothy’s like “oops”.
It’s late and I’m extra dumb.
The lesson you should take from this is to never admit a mistake ever
Admitting mistakes is NOT leadership.
I agree.
Admitting mistakes is commie and gay and unamerican.
But I WANT to be commie and gay and unamerican! 🙁
I’m an anarcho-socialist and gay,
however, no matter which way I cut it, I’m a stater (“””American”””), and having grown up in this imperialist country is something which will continue to inform my view of the world, no less than being Jewish.
Now I NEED to see Jason attempt to teach the Gender Studies class.
“Okay, class. We’re going to discuss inherent power dynamics and why they impact the level of consent actually possible in a given situation. Any questions?”
*hands go up*
“Any questions that aren’t about me getting fired?”
*hands go down*
I’ve lost track, is Jason actually employed by the university again?
for now he’s officially Robin’s TA.
this may change now that Robin might no longer be employed.
Was he ever actually fired? It seemed more like he just assumed he was going to be.
If he wasn’t fired when he assumed he was, seems like he would have been when he didn’t show up for months.
“Gender is a social construct, much like the British class system.”
(Blank looks)
“Okay, so the monarch is supposed to be the ultimate authority, chosen by God, but since the 17th century we don’t talk about that last bit much, and if they ever act like it we have a civil war and then execute them. The monarch’s family is considered beyond reproach, unless they offend the wrong people or their wrongdoing becomes impossible to deny, in which case the tabloids will “suddenly discover” how awful they are.
“Below the royals, there’s the nobility, which consists of people who did favours for recent governments, people whose ancestors did favours for ancient monarchs, people whose family have owned land for long enough that their ownership has become part of the fabric of government, and senior bishops. These are also chosen by God, except possibly the bishops.
“The upper middle class developled when …. why is nobody taking any notes?”
(His political science lecture is just “Congratulations for developing a form of representational demoncracy that makes ours look positively coherent.”)
“demoncracy”. In Typo Veritas, as David Langford says.
this makes me wish there were upvotes… so in the tradition of my people, have a up🐴
I don’t get the joke even with them swapped.
Sometimes the joke is that there is no joke.
This is not one of those times.
Or is it?
“bam-buuumm”
The joke is that in the alt verse Dorothy arranged for a confused Jason to teach Gender Studies for Leslie, and Roz and Joyce to teach Political Science for Robin. And Leslie assumed they’d done it as pictured. And Dorothy had a “Blargh, yes, that would have made more sense, wouldn’t it? 😬” moment.
Although [insert link to Roz telling Dorothy she’s the people’s choice to replace Ruth because she’s been living politics since forever and is warm and doesn’t treat them like a creepy tick box exercise] Roz might argue that she’s qualified to teach both!
A yes this is fine
inb4 they accidentally burn down the classroom somehow
*dog in burning house looks up from his coffee cup*
The most important lesson you should take from any humanities class (especially these days considering the political climate): just because it doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it’s not worth knowing.
Pretty much what I told my kids most the time. Might not be now; might br later. Or someone close to you.
If you take a humanities class and think it doesn’t apply to you then you haven’t paid enough attention or are not good at self-analysis.
Unless, of course, you’re not human, in which case you may have been right in the first place.
Oh, I was wondering where Roz was in all this.
Don’t trust Anna.
Yeah. The comment that her roommate answered is reading as cheating to me and I don’t know why
Don’t think so. The room-mate is Mindy who has an unrequited crush on Anna and would probably be delighted for Leslie to go away or rot in jail. The most likely scenario is that Mindy “forgot” to mention it to Anna.
Don’t trust Mindy.
Is it still classified as an unrequited crush if they’re exes?
Is it still classified as an unrequited crush if they’re exes, and Mindy’s been consistently portrayed as recognising Anna is bad news but being too much of a doormat to do anything about it, until she saw Anna negging Leslie and that finally gave her enough nerve to ask Leslie out before she made the same mistake Mindy did?
I mean, still don’t trust Mindy, but for slightly different reasons.
I kinda feel like Anna found out about Leslie getting caught at the protest and disapproves. If only because that’s the Maximum Dramatic Consequences outcome.
I kinda suspect that Anna is just being an uncaring asshole. That has really been her most prominent character trait.
We’ve got Mindy who tries to treat everyone well because she is afraid no one will ever love her, and we’ve got Anna who treats everyone poorly because… who knows.
And if they’ve known each other that long, Anna’s behavior could be explanatory for Mindy’s insecurity. Frequently being insulted and belittled is not good for self-esteem.
I will say if I we want to take more objective perspectives here it’s more likely Anna was just busy or slightly uncaring. She works, we don’t really know much of their relationship dynamics, so yeah. It also seems slightly out of character she would be cheating with Mindy, both their characterizations imply that’s not likely. Anna doesn’t seem into Mindy sexually or romantically (Mindy has unattractive caterpillar eyebrows according to Anna) if she actually likes anyone and Mindy seems too passive and afraid of upsetting people or asserting herself to play an active role in infidelity, this assuming Anna and Leslie are even monogamous which is a detail of their relationship we also don’t know. Cheating would be a surprise. It would be a very interesting development if it happens.
I just don’t trust Anna cause I don’t like her and no showing her partner being in jail doesn’t help her appeal.
“Anna doesn’t seem into Mindy sexually or romantically (Mindy has unattractive caterpillar eyebrows according to Anna)”
If she isn’t, she was at some time. These two used to date.
Also, Leslie has an unattractive big nose according to Anna, so “Mindy has thick eyebrows” is not really indicative of anything, except that Anna is an asshole, and unlike Mike she isn’t even FUNNY about it.
I hope we see more of Roz and Joyce co-teaching the class. That’s bound to be comedy gold.
Hmm, Anna wasn’t there, and didn’t check on her after she called.
I get the distinct impression that Anna doesn’t give a shit about anyone but herself.
“I called her but her roommate picked up” sounds to me like… cheating, probably.
Perfect setup for the inevitable Leslie/Robin he eh eh ehehaehaehaeha
Psh that wouldn’t be dumbing of age at all.
Hear me out for MY crackship…. RobinxHank.
Hmm… Robin might use it as an opportunity to claim she’s really straight after all. Then Hank comes out as trans, having had the benefit of some introspection time away from Carol, and Robin finds herself even more attracted to her now-revealed-to-be-girlfriend. Mental gymnastics result, until it’s no longer funny, before they settle into being a sweet old lesbian couple.
Isn’t her roommate Mindy?
I mean that doesn’t rule out the cheating necessarily
You mean Mindy, Anna’s ex who works under her, and therefore still has her completely enmeshed with her life, who recognizes that Anna is an incredibly toxic person but still hasn’t found the strength (or support system tbh) to finally cut her out, who is a self described doormat that folds to whatever Anna wants, and probably still gets insane dopamine hits off of love kernels (thanks for that terminology cxg) from her? Yeah I’d say that vastly increases the chances of cheating actually.
On a side, god I hope Mindy makes some friends that can maybe convince her to get therapy, and can give her a couch to sleep on so she can finally leave Anna.
Joyce needs to retake this class RIGHT NOW
Short of getting a boy-cut and calling herself Joey, she’s lived this class.
maybe he should.
I approve of this, but only if Joey develops an inexplicable new jersey accent that is necessary for his identity. maybe i can be haggled down to boston.
What is comphet?
It’s when there’s straight people.
Firesign Theater’s take:
The Straight People
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcVEDyro2sE
Sweet Mother of God another Firesign Theater fan! I started listening to them in college in the ’70’s.
OH NOES!! :O
Compulsory heterosexuality.
Comp is short for “Compulsory”, and Het is short for “Heterosexuality”
This concludes our extensive three week course.
I’ve learned so much!
Compulsory heterosexuality. In short, society teaches most kids that being straight is the norm and good, and everything else is weird and bad, so a shitton of people don’t realize they’re not straight until after they’ve attempted a lot of het stuff without ever pausing to wonder about their sexuality at all.
Wanna note that this entire concept messed me up as a kid because being anywhere on the ace-spectrum gets you othered by society through heteronormativity and specifically the idea in media that what makes us human is our capacity to love. Specifically romantic love.
And while I was able to dicover I was demi and am now in a very happy relationship. As a baby ace I basically kept forcing myself into relationships I ended up breaking off because it felt like that was what was expected of me and it realy messed me up for a while that I kept breaking people’s hearts for just not being able to love them the same way the loved me, and that something must’ve been wrong with me for not feeling that same connection.
like I had a great support network and my parents from a young age told me they’d support me whether i’d bring a boyfriend or a girlfriend home and somehow still I felt completely lost cuz I was fully unaware that the ace-spectrum was also an option
“Ace spectrum” and “demi”, two more terms I got to Google this morning.
Same experience minus the demi happy relationship. I am so far in the ace spectrum that even kissing grosses me out, so attempting to date for years was both extremely uncomfortable and just hurting everyone trying to get close because I had no idea asexuality existed in humans and everything around me was telling me that the MOST IMPORTANT THING is being in a romantic relationship and having sex. All the awful people who say kids won’t be gay if they aren’t taught about being gay have no idea what lack of information does to people who can’t help what they are.
Gotta do a big SAME with my fellows ace-spec people. I’m sex-repulsed asexual and biromantic but when I was younger I definitely tried to fit in with my peers and felt compelled to be in a relationship with guys. I also find kissing disgusting and no amount of kisses from my ex-boyfriends appealing. Granted, one of them blew so much air into my mouth that my cheeks inflated and the other wielded his tongue like it was a dead fish but bad kissing aside… I just felt nothing, man.
Allonormativity (heteronormativity but for sex and romance) is a bongo and I will put it’s head on a spike by the front gate as a warning
Seriously tho it and comp sexuality need to be talked about in the same breath as their hetero equivalents. But I don’t think the lady that coined the term believed in asexuals to begin with. Or bisexuals iirc
“Compulsory heterosexuality, often shortened to comphet, is the theory that heterosexuality is assumed and enforced upon people by a patriarchal, allonormative, and heteronormative society.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality
Compulsory heterosexuality. It’s the thing where the culture assumes you’ll be straight as a default, doesn’t teach you that there are other options, and you get a people dating people of the opposite sex bc that’s what they’re supposed to do and not because they’re deeply enthusiastic about doing that. There’s more there, but it think that’s the gist.
Compulsory heterosexuality is a concept first articulated by influential feminist theorist Adrienne Rich, which asserts that heterosexuality, as the societal default, is essentially forced upon people, and that this hegemonic heterosexuality can compel people who are not actually straight to repress their true sexual identity and engage in heterosexual activity in order to confirm to societal expectations. As originally articulated, the concept particularly applies to lesbian experiences, but others have broadened the scope of the concept since.
I have my own quibbles with the concept, not least because Adrienne Rich was a transphobe who helped to write The Transsexual Empire, but some people find it to be a useful framework
While it’s true that the term was coined by a transphobe, the truth behind it remains. It’s one of those things where, in science (even if it’s a social science), you can’t really dismiss something simply behind the person who discovered or created the theory behind it was a piece of shit whose death ultimately benefited the world.
Don’t feel you HAVE to be nice, tell us what you really think.
Not entirely sure if this comment is supportive of my point or implying I’m lying in some way.
Neither. It is correctly understood as us feeling you are pulling your punches and that you should let the hate flow through you.
For our entertainment of course.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought they were jokingly suggesting that Bill’s distaste for Adrienne Rich wasn’t coming through, and that Bill doesn’t need to be polite about her to spare our delicate sensibilities
Like I said it’s definitely a framework that some folks can find useful, but its provenance will always give me pause.
Also, her poetry wasn’t very good.
@Dot: Mild correction: The Transsexual Empire
was by Janice Raymond not Adrienne Rich
Correction for me: I missed the helped part of helper write; Sorry about that, Dot.
Yeah Rich wasn’t sole author obviously but she did contribute.
Gotcha. And yeah, I have never read that book but man does it sound like a trash fire. There’s a lot of good stuff that came out of first and second wave feminism but man was there a lot of harmful gender essentialist stuff too.
Interesting. I never heard this concept before, just heteronormativity – which seems to cover much of the same really – and before that, heterosexism, which kind of carries the implication that heterosexuality defines our idea of gender.
I think one of the differences in how I see it come up– and this isn’t fully aligned with what I know of the theory, but we’ve established Rich sucks anyway–is that heteronormativity is more external while comphet is more internal. Some queer people I know were big “allies” and informed and stuff before recognizing that they themselves were queer.
Is there any difference between Comphet and Heteronormativity?
Yes, but I can’t exactly articulate it. Heteronormativity more refers to the way society is structured, while Comphet is the reaction to living in a heteronormative world. That’s how I’d make the distinction, anyway.
Stands for Compulsory Heterosexuality, it is basically a thing where because our society views Heterosexuality as the norm there is an assumption that one is Heterosexual and must act Heterosexual, even if not straight, usually manifesting as a pressure to date or think about dating the gender that would see you the most heterosexual. I can go on a huge talk about this from the perspective of both a closeted trans girl who is bi as hell and an open trans woman who is on the sapphic side of bi.
Although I get the concept, I hadn’t heard this term before. (Because I guess I also didn’t take Leslie’s gender studies class.) Yay for learning new things from a webcomic!
CompHet (compulsory heterosexuality)
I hope you feel your question is adequately answered, I think a lot of us all saw it before it had replies XD
Thank you. I think this comic may be my only exposure to gender … terminology? Issues? Awareness?
As gently as possible, you should probably change that.
With the whole internet at the tip of your fingers, it sounds like you have a few rabbit holes to go down!
Tumblr was my education. Not any particular blogs, just sorta being there
i learned a lot myself from clients, friends and gamedev teammates the world around, my university, the OGs Huey Newton and Reverend Martin Luther King Jr (the NON-whitewashed, real one), and of course breadtube (tho I kinda dont like that name for it), especially Ian Danskin’s The Alt-Right Playbook series.
Leslie did you actually have a conversation with Mindy or did you immediately hang up because it was awkward even though you were in fucking prison?
Oh, goodness, that actually does seem more likely than any of the theories as to why Anna might be unavailable or Mindy might be lying.
okay update on my leg:
been hurting less and can at least have it level with my heart as I sleep (unelevated)
however, much more drying of skin, a lot more oozing
had to get a biopsy and like 4 stitches yesterday, still hurts and itches
getting an X-ray tommorrow, going back on Mupirocin
wish me luck
Best of luck with that medicine.
Good luck! Hope everything goes well and that you heal up well.
Best of luck NGPZ. The whole journey has sounded utterly awful. I hope you emerge victorious and healthy soon.
I sure hope the syllabus covers the fact that compulsory heterosexuality was first articulated by a transphobe!
Oh who am I kidding, Leslie’s curriculum doesn’t even account for the fact that Alison Bechdel was an avowed and vocal defender of Michfest and its trans-exclusionary policies
the sooner we move past celebrity-centric media ecosystems, the better
Assholes and bigots often produce things of value. The world is complicated. When you’re just getting people comfortable with an idea is probably not the time to also make sure all of the students know all of the worst ideas the person who coined it has also had. This is an intro class. If those students take more gender studies or queer theory classes they may engage with authors in a more holistic way, but right now they’re getting introduced to concepts that are important in the field. And sometimes those are coined by assholes but they’re still useful. And sometimes those need a lot of contextualization to not do a lot of harm. And sometimes those are worth learning despite being terrible (see: a lot of the feminist discourse around porn) because other ideas build on them in important ways.
I sadly can’t separate the creator and createe.
Richard K. Morgan was one of my all time favorite authors and then I discovered his horrific transphobia despite being the author of the Altered Carbon series that I felt was incredibly pro-trans.
Major betrayal.
If it helps, descriptions of reality have no author, only first observers. If the description is true and useful, then you can make the observation for yourself independent of the first observer. Adrienne Rich did not author the concept of compulsory heterosexuality the way Richard K. Morgan authored Altered Carbon, for it is not a product of her imagination but an observation about society that others can make for themselves. Without Morgan there is no Altered Carbon, but without Rich compulsory heterosexuality still exists.
Okay but Leslie is not a real person. The Bechdel test conversation was written by Willis in 2011. I, a trans woman, didn’t even know Bechdel was a terf until just now. I think it is entirely unreasonable for Willis to have been unaware of it, and to be unaware now of the creator of the term comphet
Look buddy you don’t need to convince me that David Willis in 2011 was unaware of Bechdel’s transmisogyny. This isn’t me wagging my finger, this is me blowing off a little bit of steam. No need to make it a federal issue.
Besides, not examining the transmisogyny and lack of intersectionalism in famous white feminists feels pretty par for the course. Then again my university’s curriculum was so behind the times I had to learn freudian theory for my psych degree 🤢 so maybe I’m just projecting
When did they make you still study Freud (the old fraud)? That’s awful.
Alison Bechdel is not a TERF for attending Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival. She is supportive of transgender women and has expressed discomfort with MWMF’s trans exclusionary policy. She is not a vocal supporter of that policy.
I didn’t say she was a terf. I am, however, saying that she is a transmisogynist.
Like if Bechdel was really so “uncomfortable” with Michfest she could have easily stopped attending, and instead she went every single year until it shut down specifically to avoid having to include trans women. Why did she express support for transphobic radical feminists like Adrienne Rich and Mary Daly? Why did she express support in a eulogy for an open terf friend for that fried celebrating the absence of “male socialization” at Michfest? This is all transmisogyny.
The absence of male socialization she celebrates is because of us adult cis males being excluded from the festival. While it’s infuriating that trans women were banned, the main point of her statement is not “I’m so happy trans women were absent”.
If you’re a cis man then I need you to stop talking and listen when a trans woman is telling you that “male socialization” is a terf dog whistle.
Seems like one of those oh-so-convenient terms that can change its meaning depending on who’s listening. The phrasal counterpart to the motte-and-bailey fallacy.
No, not really. It’s always transphobic.
Sorry, didn’t mean to imply it was ever not transphobic. Like a motte-and-bailey fallacy, it’s got a hypothetically alternative meaning that the bigot can pretend they actually meant, even though they obviously didn’t.
So… guess it was just a roundabout way to redescribe “dog whistle”. I need more sleep, evidently. And maybe stay out of these discussions; you’re a lot more familiar with the subject than I am.
(I pick some bad days to try to interact with the comment section.)
Coming at this from the cis-male side, I cannot think of the last time I heard a cis male talk about “male socialization” in a non-academic-paper context solely involving men, let alone cis men — which is just another data point to say it’s basically always a TERF dog whistle as far as I can tell.
She’s always struck me as that incredibly specific kind of transmisogynist that boils down to “had being trans been more accepted than being lesbian when I was younger, I might have transitioned instead of just being a lesbian, and that idea scares me because I like my gender, so I’m going to always pick whatever course seems more ‘pro-lesbian’ than ‘pro-trans’ if there’s even the slightest whiff of conflict”.
(noting that the entire concept of “transitioned because it was easier to transition than be homosexual” is itself transphobic as hell)
With regards to Michfest specifically, Camp Trans was organized every year as a protest against the festival’s trans-exclusionary policies, organized by figures like Leslie Feinberg. As far as I can tell, Bechdel never attended or showed support. “Discomfort,” indeed.
I wish I had read your comment before I spent like half an hour trying to find evidence of her terf-ness. Based on all I can find she’s made public statements supporting trans women, and included positive portrayals in her comic.
https://www.tumblr.com/systemrestart/751990800446095360/alison-bechdel-is-openly-pro-trans-are-you-on-meth?source=share
This post is a good summation of the bullet points id like to make in response to Bechdel’s ostensible “support” of us.
That was an excellent rundown, ty!
Disappointing, but thank you for sharing. I live in Michigan, and when I was a queer teenager (thinking I was a cis girl) looking things up, I learned about Michfest and was excited for a few moments until I read about the transmisogyny. As far as I knew, I hadn’t even met a trans woman at that point, and I really wanted to have experiences in queer spaces, and I knew I’d never go to Michfest. An adult who’d been involved in the community for a long time doesn’t have an excuse.
It’s worth noting that transmisogyny, like any other bigotry, exists on a spectrum. Being supportive of transwomen, even being a transwoman yourself, does not exempt you from transmisogyny. Alison Bechdel can support transwomen’s right to exist and express themselves and still be a transmisogynist in whatever reservations she has about that right.
Trans women. Two words.
Poor Leslie is stuck teaching people to crawl before they can run and unfortunately, her crawling class is probably going to be cancelled by the President suing her school or pre-compliance.
What did I say?
I don’t know; I wasn’t listening.
So what did you say?
I was expecting Becky to take over Leslie’s class on the following day.
So we locked Jason back in Ruth’s room?
Wait.. wrong class. I think? Nevermind!
Ruth only keeps Jason locked in her room between classes.
He’s almost trained to handcuff himself to the door.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/onething/
Yayyyyy roz content (a bit disappointed we didn’t see her immediate reaction to Your Sister Went to Prison for Protesting, hoping we still do). I hope we see more of this gender studies class, I feel like they’d bounce off each other in interesting ways
Come on, Joyce, Leslie told you that you were in the lesbian section on the first day. Always listen to Leslie.
Joyce is about to learn about comphet, which totally doesn’t apply to her whatsoever at all.
You are being ironic, but does it apply to her? She doesn’t seem to have been into girls growing up.
Of course it may be argued that this is because it wasn’t a thing that was possible in her earlier world view. Even so, the simplest read of what we have seen is that Joyce is bi, and didn’t really develop sapphic crushes before Uni.
Ok I’ve been somewhat ambivalently defensive of Anna before but yeah that’s unacceptable lol
Leslie deserves better ;-;
If we’re being charitable (to Anna), maybe Leslie hung up before she got around to mentioning the prison thing because I know things are awkward between her and Mindy.
However I would much sooner be charitable to Leslie and assume she was able to say “hey, I am in police custody and need help” even if it was probably pretty awkward.
Yeah that would explain the “I don’t know what happened” because she assumed Mindy would tell her but she never showed up.
It’s hard to blame Anna for what Mindy doesn’t tell her.
I have no idea why you would EVER be defensive of Anna, who verbally abused and publicly humiliated a partner (and everyone else) that she is the de facto boss of.
Well see I was mostly defending her from people reflexively calling her abusive for being kinda rude, thanks for providing an example
Insulting and belittling people repeatedly is abusive.
Anna isn’t “kinda rude”. Literally the first time we see her she belittles and insults Mindy to Becky in the middle of the (grocery?) store.
And to compound the issue, Mindy isn’t allowed to fight back (even if she had a spine with which to do so), because Anna is her BOSS.
Anna’s definitely cheating on Leslie with Mindy and that’s why she didn’t answer the phone herself.
ive chosen to believe that anna is cheating with someone else entirely, but mindy still lives there, because she has no spine
Same.
Kinda hard to move with no spine. It’s a pretty important part of your skeleton.
Never underestimate the power of osmosis.
…ohno. Joyce as an assistant teacher ? I mean it could work just not… like that on the spot
Wait nevermind it’s the young DeSanto not the old one lol. omygod it’s two kidsss
But not the youngest DeSanto…
The youngest DeSanto is a cereal killer.
I mean she wants to teach kindergarten, so a college class is like that except maybe a little less good at decision making.
Fair.
If the college students get into something they shouldn’t, you can’t pick ’em up and move them.
But “one two three, eyes on me” still works the same.
And the college students don’t usually fall over so much, or sneeze straight into your mouth. So that’s nice.
Ok, I know there’s a lot going on in the comic at the moment, but I now want nothing more than for the entire rest of this storyline to just be Roz and Joyce teaching gender studies.
Roz has said she could teach the class, but last time she had to fill in it was awkward because it was about on speaking in place of marginalized people. This time that very specific problem has been solved, sort of!
One of my biggest issues with DOA is that we don’t get to see the classes. I miss seeing the characters take the lessons, have unique interactions and how those lessons would come across in the narrative. Being “in class” is now such an after thought we basically skip over it every time.
yeah like honestly, this is supposed to be a college webcomic right?
classes would make the setting feel a lot more like college, just sayin’ :P
Please be careful what you ask for.
*immediately remembers lab partners pairs are permanent in Brocks Class*
TT~TT
Gender studies and PoliSci were the only times we even saw classes actually being conducted. Maybe a tiny bit of biology.
Even things like math and computer science were pretty much skipped and we only saw the fallout like Sal flunking or Amber annoying Alex 1.0.
Yes and now none of those things are seen. I dont know what your point is. We still curtently have less of the element I liked than the small amount we used to have.
Seconded. I really like seeing characters come into contact with course material and their competencies and incompetencies and have unique reactions to all that stuff. Hopefully we get some more of it this semester.
Look, just go and find Carla, she’s an expert in this stuff.
Probably not at comphet though.
Carla’s in the class, I believe. And likely heckling these two. (At least until they explain why they’re here. I think she feels guilty enough right now about this specific subject that that might quiet her.)
I don’t know for sure, but I assume at real world colleges and universities when a professor is arrested and banned from campus so they can’t teach their class, either the class would be cancelled or the school would have to quickly find another professor to teach that class.
Only once someone lets the school know! If nobody shows up to teach the people will eventually abandon class on their own. I haven’t heard of a random student declaring that they’re teaching class in their stead so I don’t know how it goes.
The school has to know in this case. They’re the ones who banned them from the campus.
Don’t underestimate the ability of the left hand not to know what the right hand is doing. The part of the college responsible for handing down punishments for protesting may not be keeping the part responsible for classes having teachers up to date.
To add to that: they might’ve just made a poorly thought out blanket decision and paid little attention to the results, so in a way, the right hand mightn’t know what the right hand’s doing either.
Roz and Robin looks so alike I went “how the hell is Robin teaching when she just walked away????
Robin is very fast.
I mean if you read shortpacked then yes, she is VERY fucking fast
That’s why I said it. 🔪
Now here’s a guy that knows ball
Right? Roz looks really good in that outfit too
little surprised at how fast everyones jumped to anna cheating bc mindy picked up the phone. while i dont think its too far out my immediate thought was that anna didnt wanna talk bc shes mad at leslie for attending the protest.
unless anna’s done something similar in the past comics? i just finished shortpacked and im currently in roomies so if thats the case ill see it eventually
Anna’s not in the past continuity so her DoA appearances are all we have to go on.
I don’t think cheating would be out of character, Anna’s pretty consistently been characterized as the worst, but yeah I don’t think there’s much reason to jump to it, and it’s already bad enough as is.
i also dont think its too ooc, but while annas definitely been written as a jerk so far, we havent seen that much of her (shes not even been directly in a strip since 2019) so i would need more info before going “oh its totally XYZ”
Okay, I don’t understand why everyone is leaping to blame Anna and not, let’s say Mindy? Maybe we need a review? https://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-7/04-the-do-list/single/
yeah and honestly
considering the amount of backlash Willis has already got for making Joyce and Dorothy cheat and indulging in that bi stereotype,
i think he may very well be steering clear of that kinda thing for the time being
yeah, i feel like two rounds of that back to back might be a bit much for the story arc. i also feel like joyce and dorothy are gonna be facing some more consequences for it later, but since this is a daily strip its gonna take a while before we get to it.
I’ll say that I’d be shocked if hypothetical Anna cheating got anywhere near the same response
The cheating stuff got such a massive response because every vertex of that love shape was a sympathetic character that huge chunks of the audience were emotionally invested in and cared about. People had big feelings!
I don’t think people would have those same feelings if Dr. Jerk, the character whose primary trait is being shitty to her girlfriend did something shitty to her girlfriend.
But I don’t know, we can seemingly have heated arguments about even the tiniest little thing, so fucking maybe.
Also, even Leslie is mostly a background character so any cheating is likely to get only a couple of strips of focus, rather than the spotlight for months.
And Leslie is still a more central character than Anna, so a cheating arc would likely focus more on how it hurt Leslie, rather than focusing how cute Anna is with her cheating partner.
Well don’t forget, due to the buffer this strip was written before the backlash to Joyce and Dorothy even happened.
Imagine if this was a GWS-style “Leslie thought they were monogamous, Anna thought they were open” arc.
Thea and Angel. That’s been a lot of years, but i still remember it like yesterday.
Games WorkShop?
Joyce: The important thing to talk about today is that Leslie and Robin were arrested at the pro-gay protest yesterday.
Roz: The Bulmeria protest has nothing to do with pro-gay…
Joyce: Uh, I was there. I saw Dor…the blonde there kissing that other blonde SHOWING LEADERSHIP.
So students can choose their teachers now?
LOL, this was funny. I also expect some thirsty readers will jump on to it as ”word of author” that Joyce is ”fully lesbian!” and was just performative with Jacob and Joe… >.<
Which makes no sense anyhoo, cause it’s compulsory heterosexuality, not compulsory being attracted to dudes… :/
Compulsory heterosexuality as originally articulated by Adrienne Rich was primarily a lesbian theory. The work was titled “Compulsory Heterosexuality and the Lesbian Existence”
Of course, people can progress the concept away from its origin. Both in terms of extending it in logical ways, and in terms of distancing it from its TERFy originator.
Some bigot put a name on something that already existed and that name spread. I’m not going to shed a tear for her being ignored.
Sure, I’m just providing context for why it’s so often referenced as a “lesbian thing.”
Sorry, didn’t intend that to seem like disagreement. Context’s good to have.
Reading more about her… I probably shouldn’t’ve just dismissed her as “some bigot”. Not ignoring the stupid TERFiness (which was ironic, considering her push for a more flexible and inclusive kind of feminism… but apparently not flexible enough to stop defining women by their bodies), but she did have some good thoughts in other areas.
Which leaves me highly conflicted. But… to be morbidly pragmatic, she’s dead, so we can keep what good she did while rejecting the bad, and she’s not around to complain.
I would agree if the problem was as simple as “she’s a bad person so she should be excluded from the conversation.” But the problem is that her transmisogyny should make us suspicious of anti trans bias in her work. That bias can manifest in obvious ways like overt hostility, but it can also manifest in subtle ways like deliberate or negligent exclusion of trans perspectives. And those subtle biases can be pernicious. Some people may find her work to be sufficiently useful that it’s worth the effort of trying to tease out the transmisogyny, but i will always find it better to seek out other voices instead.
I really haven’t been phrasing stuff well today, have I? My thoughts were more along the lines of… well… not outright rejecting stuff that’d taken inspiration from her if the thoughts so inspired have the transmisogyny already filtered out, I suppose.
Which would essentially amount to seeking other voices, as you said, who may already have suffered through the effort of converting her thoughts into something without the bigotry.
I don’t really know enough of her work to really judge, though, so I suppose this’s just a longwinded way of saying “I agree”.
As to the term “comphet”: we also still use the word “atom” despite them not actually being indivisible. A word can survive being coined by someone who was fundamentally wrong.
It also seems like “in the wild” there’s a lot of folks who deploy “comphet” specifically in a biphobic sense — “no, you don’t actually also like dudes, that’s just comphet”.
That was my previous experience with the use of “comphet” as applied to Joyce and Dorothy- specifically someone who was arguing that it would be regressive and problematic to give any sort of space to Joe & Walky’s feelings about being cheated on because it was more important that Joyce & Dorothy were breaking away from comphet.
Honestly, I think in the right place and time, we as readers could have an *extremely* interesting and productive conversation about how comphet and bisexuality interact using Joyce as an example, but honestly I don’t think this comment section is one these days.
In all honesty, I think there are quite a few people here who could have that discussion, but I think they’d have to really be careful to just ignore the trolls and the vitriolic folks (as opposed to getting into slap-fights with them, and I’m guilty as charged of that myself)
Indeed.
On this subject: I’ve sometimes misphrased stuff badly enough to be mistaken for trolling or being argumentative (perhaps due to lack of experience with people), so… if any of my comments ever seem nasty or unreasonable, please call me out on it.
This’s an open request to anyone who finds one of my comments unreasonable, by the way, not just to Big Z.
Let’s appreciate all the different threads that have come together to make today’s joke possible ^^
I learned a word today.
“And for our first lesson on comphet, we will open Joyce’s diary to ANY page…”
Apparently I just learned something about using angled brackets on this forum.
My post was: insert You Keep Using that Word meme here
Back in the 1990s “therapists” would brainwash young trans women into being comphet stepford-wives by making that behavior a prerequisite just to access medical care including HRT/surgery. Failure to comply resulted in denial of trans medical care entirely at the time. That’s specifically how I didn’t figure out I was a lesbian until i was in my 40s and wasted 25 years of my life on men.
Was still happening to friends of mine in the 2000s, too. There was and is a strain of thought that boils down to “sure, we’ll agree gender is not tied to your chromosomes, but you still have to pick one and do it super conventionally.” that’s incredibly frustrating to watch people go through.
I also got stuck with that for my first year of therapy.
After many many years of being subjected to it, that junk got rooted really deep in my brain which shaped my personality and my hyper feminine gender expression very intensely in life, I’ve spent the last few years unraveling all of that with trauma therapists who no longer believe in that nonsense. It’s difficult for me to just wear a pair of jeans without feeling wrong even today.
Honestly, I can see this working well. ‘Have the students watch as one person is in a direct dialogue with the teacher and gets directly instructed’ is, like, ancient Greek learning tactics, right? If you’re not used to the group-address classroom setting, it feels like a half-decent way to fill in
…i forgot my gravatar was roz,
I’m here for Roz teaching gender studies. I feel like Roz would be a lot better lecturer than Robin…not that Robin’s teaching is a high bar to clear.
The last time we saw Roz covering the class, Leslie subtly roasted her by giving her “Performative allyship and the de-amplifying of marginalized voices”. Today we see her acknowledging that a sapphic woman has experience with comphet, but also side-eyeing her like it’s a failing on her part and not something she suffered through.
Weirdly, despite both of those involving being mean to Joyce, I don’t think the fact that it’s Joyce specifically actually plays that much into it.
Roz really isn’t being mean to Joyce here
New thing to add to my list of “things I kind of knew existed, but didn’t realize had a proper name.”