I don’t think so. Tony loves “the rule of law,” which is just an idea opposite of the rule of man; that the law should apply to everyone fairly and equally. The university, probably including Tony Sr. especially, makes a lot of money selling bombs but they don’t like that it gives them bad PR, so they silenced a peaceful protest with riot cops. Pissing on the rule of law in order to get
b a lot of poor people bombed. Rather, Tony might have to choose between his principles and his dad.
I agree with you, and I see two outcomes:
1) If his father is complicit with the police raid, Tony may have a downfall with his father, choosing his principles over parental bonds.
2) If his father is like Tony and is not complicit, they both will do everything in their power to right these wrongs.
Sarah thinking that the Dean would be willing to take legal action against the cops for what’s essentially an illegal raid… bold of her to assume that the Dean wasn’t the one who let them in in the first place….
Eventually, if he finds out about her friendship with Amazigirl, yeah. But right now, in this specific scenario, I see it more leaning toward him having to go against his father, because he sees these actions as wrong, and I doubt the dean was innocent.
Strongly agree, although that said, with regards to what Tony is saying in Panel 2, I think a distinction must also be drawn between believing in “the system” and believing in the rule of law as derived from consensus and common principles. What we’re seeing the Trump administration doing in recent weeks re: Venezuela and now Greenland is basically what happens when people simply go “Why should I follow the law at all? Who’s going to stop me?” It would herald a return to the law of the jungle, and it would threaten so much more than civil liberties or even human rights.
hard to tell who ppl are sometimes. although while some first impressions/instincts might be bs but if he was that bad/had signs i think sarah might’ve been more putoff at teh beginning (unless she was still thirsty/frustrated enough to be like “yeah he’s a piece of shit but i don’t mind doing a one night stand/hatef*** with him”) or os
Amazi-Girl is a student. Amazi-Girl initiated force on the property belonging to the school and those protecting the school (riot police), ergo Amazi-Girl is in the wrong regardless of ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND CONTEXT.
Note: I admit to being half joking here, Tony’s response in the panel just—gave me a weird ‘this feels very libertarian’ vibe.
And while you might argue that the police initiated force first and thus Amazi-Girl was justified under the Non-Aggression Principle, that doesn’t count because trespassing is somehow use of force and thus attacking protesters isn’t initiating violence.
Libertarians are in favor of the rule of law, they just want a lot fewer laws, especially ones that tell them they can’t do things they want to do. Laws that that tell other people what they can’t do are fine.
Just remember that there’s a difference between “libertarian” and “Libertarian”. The big L indicates a political party that’s basically Republicans who like to smoke weed.
Eh, not really. I used to consider myself one, because I was and remain socially very liberal but fiscally I was fairly conservative, which is less so now.
Though there certainly are a bunch of white dudes who would have called themselves republican back then IF the GOP were less moralistic about sex and drug use and they were irritating and showy and became the brush that tarred the rest.
But that was back in like Clinton/early W time. Weed’s legal in most states because old white people found out it could make their joints hurt less (hey, maybe that’s why they call them “joints!”) and well on its way to being federally ok by prescription. Those guys are mostly MAGA now, just like the Tea Party assholes who muddied up the gene pool and called themselves Libertarian when that fell apart. I’d be shocked if a fair number of the people who were involved in the 1/6 insurrection weren’t former libertarians of that stripe. Especially that weird buffalo head guy.
There’s also a big difference between US libertarian and European libertarian. Europe still has a streak of left-libertarian thought, often tied to socialist or anarchist ideas.
Libertarians actually tend NOT to be big fans of rule of law, since laws tend to include things like regulations and age of consent that they’re not a fan of.
No no, they’re big fans of laws that oppress minorities, they’re just angry when the law puts obstacles on something they specifically feel entitled to. Like, poisoning the land or women.
In general anything that restricts their ability to use money to control people.
What eventually put me off libertarians in practice was noticing that none of the freedoms from legal restrictions they cared about meant anything if you weren’t at least middle class.
No, that’s more conservatives in general. Libertarians specifically USUALLY have a more consistent ideology than that, albeit one that’s extremely poorly thought out and collapses near-instantly everytime they try to put it into practice.
I tend to think that’s true of consistent ideologies in general, at least when if comes to organizing societies. Humans are messy and we adapt and exploit the rules of whatever system we’re in. If you try to put ideological consistency over practical experience, you can’t fix things that break.
yeah “libertarian” these days is a pseudo-intellectual label the alt-right uses for keeping white supremacist orientation plausibly deniable
they say they’re for free speech and shit but it’s a lie — leftist ideas are communist and therefore bad, the only reason to ever talk to us is for public mockery and ridicule
but you can interview a eugenicist, but that doesn’t automatically mean you’re endorsing them — “you know just hear them out, nothing should be off limits in the free marketplace of ideas”
it feels “safe” to them because Nazis and Klansmen are Totally Non-Political™ 👀
I have literally never met a libertarian who believes in Rule of Law. Rule of Law is one of the classic foundational liberal beliefs, but its pretty contrary to many traditional libertarian beliefs.
(assuming he actually believes in Rule of Law and is being sincere here)
It’s faster not to, and while some cops might have reasonable comsideration for the people they’re responsible for policing its more reliable to broadly assume they’re not that responsible.
Cops tend to make big messes of things (for their job) and they aren’t expected to clean up after themselves. There’s apparently meant to be some other department or whatever that goes after to take care of things (like repaying people who have their doors kicked down and such) but that doesn’t ALWAYS happened.
Been pondering this and let me provide an example;
There was a shooting at a mall near me and while searching for the shooter, cops cut through security gates of several storefronts. I understand WHY they had to do this, HOWEVER the process of cutting through the gates really fucked with those storefronts, some of which were unable to roll the gates back up to open due to the damage and they had to just roll with the “person sized hole” to make an entrance into their shop. It became an issue for a while because the store owners were reasonably upset and wanted compensation to make their stores… you know, functional again, and local law enforcement basically gave them a big shrug. “We did what we had to do, not our problem, you need to fix it yourself” despite such a thing being estimated at several thousand dollars.
I am unfamiliar with any time ever that anyone was compensated for law enforcement kicking down their door. I mean it could have easily happened, but I never heard of it. I am not a lawyer, but sovereign immunity and suchlike tend to apply. If they are acting in the regular course of their duties, you can go pound sand.
Back when the mall thing happened, the article talking about it pointed out that there’s meant to be a department dedicated towards compensating for damages, however, I think the issue is getting them to actually DO it. Like bureaucratic red tape. The reasoning given in my example above was that “the damage was to a store rather than a house. It’s basically public property, therefore the property itself should fix it, not us.”
While I don’t believe Chloe is evil thanks to Word of God, I absolutely believe the next big villain will be the Dean. The Dean in this version of the school is not only supporting the Bulmeria genocide but also was the one who suck the cops on the students for being against it.
This makes me think of Amber not trusting Walky but instead calculating that his room is safer from his family ties to the dean (would be a cynical but interesting possible interpretation). Don’t think it’s the case, but it’s an option.
Yes, but not at the top, and a big university like this one would have a number of deans. There would also be a President and some kind of board above the deans, and realistically, for something like declaring protests illegal and signing off on police raids on dorms, it would be them making the call and not a dean.
It’s not unusual for there to be a Dean of Students, or similar title, who’d have authority over things like the dorms and student organizations (as opposed to Dean of Arts and Sciences, or Dean of Engineering, who’d be in charge of academic programs).
Deans are pretty important within their area. But for all the talk of Tony’s privilege, a Dean is not in the top 10% that owns everything. Upper middle income to lower high income is more likely. Probably makes less than the president of a mid size company, but far from peanuts.
In Indiana University’s case, there’s the Board of Trustees at the very top, then there’s the President of IU, then there’s the Chancellor of the Bloomington campus, then there’s the Provost, then there’s the deans (note: simplifying things significantly)
Remember, the Dean in question is just one of the deans at IU. He may not have any say about law enforcement issues in the first place. A lot of readers seem to assume a Dean is the same thing as University President. By the way, the actual IU President is not popular with many people, both on or off campus.
Also, right now, the only thing anybody in the whole state cares about is undefeated IU’s bid for the college football championship Monday night against Florida.
Not if the university, which owns the dorms, gives the police permission. A warrant is not needed if permission for entry and search is granted by the owner of the property.
For the record, this is not true. Legally, they can grant access to common areas, but not individuals’ living spaces. Not that it doesn’t happen, but a half-decent lawyer could get that evidence thrown out in court.
I don’t believe that’s correct. Many dorm agreements stipulate that the college can grant the police access to rooms, so while the fourth amendment applies, there are exceptions unlike in an apartment with a landlord. It depends on the college but it’s very possible the college was on board with the search AND legally capable of granting access.
It’s possible, but given that the lack of a warrant has been brought up multiple times in comic and the other idea hasn’t been, it seems very likely that the intent is that the lack of a warrant is relevant.
Seriously people the university was being protested, they’re the ones who changed the rules so that the protesters were all trespassing and got the cops to shut down the protest, the university is clearly not on the good side so I don’t understand why nobody else seems to think that the university gave the cops permission to do the search and is assuming they will be pissed about it. I feel like I’m crazy here
The university can’t give the cops permission to search residents’ private rooms. I’m not assuming that the university will be upset about this, but that just means that they’re complicit in the illegal search.
“Everyone” did not make any such assumption, but you appear to have stated the (false) assumption that “everyone” did… I’m not sure why you might assume that, in the face of evidence otherwise. But I could be confused by the way you phrased this “… why everyone assumes the university wasn’t on board with this and granted the cops permission …”. Wasn’t on board with a search? So actually didn’t grant permission? Wasn’t on board with Privacy? So did grant permission? Asuumes the uni granted permission?
Is there a word missing that makes it all clear, as in a typo?
Sarah: Yeah, I am not happy.
Tony: I wouldn’t be. They should’ve had a warrant.
This pretty clearly indicates that they did not have a warrant to search student’s personal belongings, and that they were legally required to have a warrant to do so.
Why does that indicate that? Why do you think Tony knows everything that’s going on with the administration? His dad’s the dean but that doesn’t mean he knows everything
There’s two separate parts to this: Whether the university approves of this and whether the cops were acting legally.
I suspect it’s wishful thinking for Sarah to expect the Dean’s support here, but I also think that the cops acting without a warrant has been brought up multiple times in comic for the narrative purpose of establishing that they needed one and didn’t have it. If someone had countered that – even Rachel cynically last strip, that would be different, but that hasn’t happened.
Possible. It just seems like everyone is making assumptions. It would be pretty stupid for the cops to do an illegal search that would open them up to a huge lawsuit. It seems more likely the college would have given them permission, and narratively, when the students find this out they’ll be outraged and maybe lead to a big student protest.
Adding on, not only would it open themselves up to a huge lawsuit but also all of the evidence that they might find would be thrown away in court by a successful motion to suppress (depending on the judge of course). Cops do illegal searches all the time but it would be so unfathomably stupid for the entire police force to do an organized search of an entire campus illegally when doing so would jeopardize such a big case, that it seems far more likely that the college granted them permission. BUT of course this isn’t real life and it’s possible that Willis just wanted to make it an illegal search for drama
Then it would make sense to lay the ground for it by having a character suggest that maybe the school allowed it, rather than emphasizing the lack of a warrant.
Did you forget the part where they turned an area of the university illegal to be on overnight to justify the police arresting people. He’s the dean. He was part of the decision.
This comic was made like a year ago, yet is all the more relevant since we have a shit ton of wanna be cops going around doing shit without a warrant when they legally have to have one to do anything. ICE isn’t supposed to be able to go after a single person unless they have a warrant to do so, and they be out here attacking everybody who pisses them off or even looks slightly less then Trump’s Preferred shade of White Person.
So they didn’t have a warrant after all. That’s interesting, and likely to annoy a college administration that would otherwise probably be sympathetic to the police. I guess the cops were so embarrassed by Amazi-Girl that they felt like they had to swing their dicks around and rub in everyone’s face that they’re above the law.
Tony’s coming off better today, which I’m glad to see.
I imagine the genocide supporters are more annoyed that they didn’t bring in three people:
1. Amazi Girl
2. The impossible to identify gay LEADERS of the protest (listen, who is more likely to have organized a Pro-Bulmeria protest, an adult Muslim woman who works in administration of the mysterious blonde teenage white girls who clearly possess overwhelming charisma)
Fun fact #1: Universities kinda count as landlords to the students in their dorms.
Fun fact #2: Universties ONLY kinda count as landlords to the students in their dorms. Many tenant rights that exist in a normal tenant/landlord relationship don’t cover student dormitories. The details can vary by jurisdiction and by university.
Fun fact #3: Universities can often perform inspections of dorms, without the sort of advance notice that landlords typically need to give.
Fun fact #4: … which also means that they could invite cops to do the inspections on the university’s behalf. You know, as contractors or something like that.
Fun fact #5: Cops can pay confidential informants for help in their investigations. … not that I’m saying that whatever administrator is in charge of the dorms is getting paid by the cops to allow that inspection. No. not at all. If we said that, the confidential informant wouldn’t be confidential anymore, and that would be a contradiction, so it’s logically impossible to say it.
Fun fact #6: I might not know what the word “fun” actually means.
I can’t speak to what will happen in the comic, but *generally* while campus officials can search without a warrant in the USA, official police cannot. If they tried some sort of workaround like ‘hiring contractors’, that would probably be worse for the university and the police-if someone with resources, such as a dean, took official and legal notice.
Other hand, somebody laid out the power structure of UI earlier, and if the Dean of Students authorized this, it would be about like the assistant shift manager at a chain store “authorizing” a warrentless search of the store’s inventory. The store manager, regional manager, and Board of Directors might… express disapproval.
Well, it’s very unlikely Tony’s dad authorized any of this by himself. He might or might not have been opposed, but it would have been a higher level decision.
Fun fact 3 reminds me that one time when I was a freshman, my dorm had a random fire drill. We had previously been told if we ignored a fire drill or did not exit our dorm during one that we could get in trouble. Cue my ass sleeping through the alarm and only waking up just after the alarm was done ringing. They did inspect the rooms but lucky for me they didn’t inspect very WELL (I went and hid in my closet, they did the most cursory glance over the rooms) but I remember being so scared I was going to be caught and expelled.
It’s quite possible the school isn’t going to do anything about it, unless they get a lot of pressure; my personal guess is that there is someone at the school who acts as the police contact, and so the school likely has warning in advance and can give its (tacit?) approval.
And this is assuming that this was not a university police department, in which case the police would already be tightly integrated with the university itself.
Hmmm so Tony is Lawful good or nuetral. I think I prefer that to him being uncaring of what effect on others as long as he’s not affected. Not great, as I’m chaotic good, but better lol
He stepped up to put a stop to inceleratorPaul’s harassment of Sarah, so it’s safe to say he’s not uncaring. Though it might be the “it’s happening right in front of me” sort of caring.
If he was to be a DnD character, I’d see him as a paladin of Tyr.
Seemingly cold, but fair and just, while being unyielding towards oathbreakers.
So I think he sees the policemen as corrupt and unworthy of their office. I predict that if his father is willingly implicated in this affair, he may choose his principles over his bonds with his father.
Honestly, panel 2 is such a D&D paladin moment that I’m surprised ctrl+F only found the word “paladin” once. Then again, considering how many people use the law as a proxy for the way society should be run, without thinking about the reasons certain things have been made legal or illegal — or sometimes entirely aware of and approving of the way it unfairly targets certain people — that the sort of mindset you’re describing isn’t what usually springs to mind.
I’m personally hoping your read’s the right one. It’d be interesting to see such a mindset deal with the realities of the law as it actually is.
It’s definitely *possible* Tony will turn out to be a moderate, or even someone who reps the thin blue line and other such trash. But…*man* we don’t know that yet.
We don’t know:
1. What he thinks happened at the protest
2. What he thinks the police were doing in the dorms
3. Anything at all about his politics-‘I hope they found what they’re looking for’ becomes a very, very different statement depending on what he thinks they were looking for, and why.
‘His father is a dean and he’s a cis white guy, therefore sus’ maybe isn’t quite the progressive position some of y’all appear to think.
As for that ‘probably’, my interpretation is that ‘he will probably look into taking action’ rather than ‘he will probably object to this’. We also know nothing about his relationship with his father, unless I’m misremembering.
I can’t say I agree. ‘What’s happening on the other side of the planet?’ as a state of mind really is something lots and lots and lots of folks can exist in very comfortably.
At the very least Joyce’s take considering her upbringing. The church and schools run by the church usually don’t teach about the world outside their own bubble, to keep people in that bubble. They would bring up Bulmeria unless it was to make themselves look holy by donating money to a cause for them or something.
Dorothy, aiming to be a damn President, would 100% know about other country’s affairs. To be a good president you have to pay attention to that shit so you don’t get blindsided when shit goes down and you might get pulled into a War. This was probably covered in one of her classes if the school didn’t block that subject. She was a perfectionist that put 90% of her attention into becoming the best president possible, she wouldn’t cut corners, so she probably knows. That being said, it probably isn’t at the forefront of her mind as of late, her own personal bubble is a chaotic mess right now.
Dorothy, despite my issues with the character, tried to tell Hank about the nuances of the conflict. Which by nuances she was like, “The side you’re supporting is pretty evil, Hank, because the terrorists are just innocent people.” But she did it in her Dorothy-esque way and didn’t make much headway.
I would guess that would be the position of at least 50% of all college students until at least a month after numerous protest incident like this across the nation.
We really haven’t seen enough of Tony to have much idea of what his views are about the protest, the police, or politics in general. So I’m gonna wait and see on him I guess.
Exactly. So far just about the only political statement one could make about him, I think, would probably be ‘he’s not an anarchist’ based on his ‘without the rule of law’ statement.
Hang on, are you saying readers *shouldn’t* immediately start yelling at each other about how they are literally monsters for how they interpret Tony’s personality and actions based on like 15 minutes of screen time and should instead calmly wait for more information? That’s not the DoA comment section I’ve seen
His rule of law statement, if he knows all the laws and rights, would make him pro-protest. The Protest was entirely legal and its the right of every civilian to do so. While I doubt he would have gone to the protest himself, I doubt he would be against it.
What that wouldn’t make him is Pro-Vigilante, because that is Illegal, he probably wouldn’t approve of Amber’s actions, unless her having saved the lives of Sarah and her friends changes his mind on that.
I assumed his “I hope they found what they were looking for” meant “I hope they didn’t just trash everyone’s stuff and ruin everyone’s day for no reason”. Dude seems like a dude who wants tangible outcomes for things happening (I base this seeming on…vibes)
A lot of people become radicalized when the system hurts them or someone they care about. I’m not even saying Tony is conservative, but he could very well be a liberal who thinks the system is working fine. He’s very young and he might not have had anything to convince him otherwise, especially as he is a rich white guy.
Tony is reacting to this better than I expected. I’m glad he seems to not think that everything the cops do is good, though I’m wondering if we’ll see more of what he thinks about the cops and the protests in later strips, and if his views differ from Sarah enough that could cause problems for their relationship.
He’s the son of a dean, so I suspect he knows his dad must’ve approved this raid and wants to believe he’s acting in everyone’s best interests. The longer he’s around people tangentially connected to the protests and Amazi-Girl, the more cracks will show.
I believe he thinks that cops should only do good, but that this is way beyond what cops should be allowed to do and should be punished for this breach of trust (as well as the one(s) who ordered that police raid).
I’m getting the impression that punching Incelerator was less because he was a villain and more because that was the only thing Tony can control in his life.
Are we getting a character inversion arc, were Raidah begins acting more charitably while being grumpy, at the same time that Sarah starts using her personal relationships to accomplish her own ends?
Will they meet in the middle and bury the hatchet? Will they fully swap roles? Or will they both realize what’s happening and revert to form?
Honestly Tony’s more or less where I was when I was about 19. To be fair I still sorta agree that rules and law ARE important to a society running well. It’s moreso that I’ve accepted that it currently doesn’t? I’m less against the principle and moreso the execution.
“Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice, and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.”
I still don’t know where to stand with this Tony fella. I hear “rule of law” and that worries me because rules and laws disproportionately target people that look like me while serving the rich which Tony just so happens to be. Is he just young and naive?
I think it does come from a place of optimism rather than outright authoritarianism, but he probably doesn’t realize how often rules and laws disproportionately target people like his girlfriend. I think this might be a sticking point for them.
“Rule of law” is the concept that NO ONE should be above the law, that laws should be fair and just to everyone following the laws, and that people in power should not be able to abuse the laws for their own benefits.
The “rule of man” is where an entity (king, council, emperor, dictator, and other forms of absolutist government) dictate what is the law and that this entity and their lackeys are above the laws.
So in this case in the comic, policemen searching every rooms for something undefined while leaving a mess and without apparent limits to where they can go is a sign that they are acting under the rule of man (AKA sent by someone powerful and spiteful).
If they were acting under the rule of law, they should have searched a single room or a few designated rooms with a limited warrant from a judge, IF they have a legitimate suspicion of who could be the culprit of the crime they are sent for, and shouldn’t touch other rooms if they didn’t find it in the designated room(s). Perhaps they could ask questions to voluntary students to maybe find clues as to where they should get the next warrant for, but not act until they get the next warrant except under exceptional circumstances.
The rule of law is what we should strive for, but it has been eroded for decades already…
The rule of law is a facially reasonable stance, but also gets used as a dog whistle to embrace an authoritarian state, ignoring that cops and government officials routinely break the law with relative impunity, painting “undesirables” as criminals whether they actually break any laws or not (even aside from whether the laws are fair and/or are enforced fairly)
People keep referring to tony as “rich” but I feel like at best he’s probably upper middle class. Like he’s wealthier than ME, but College deans aren’t exactly 1%ers. Or really even have as much money as the CEO of a mid-sized company or a high up management position at a large one. At Best Tony probably has a large house and has never had to worry about where his food came from. Heck the “Dean” isn’t even the highest rank in the school authority ladder. Like I dunno maybe Dean McHenry is old money or something but if not and unless Tony’s mom is in the picture and also pulling down a 6-figure job he may just be…well off.
Which y’know…describes half the cast.
Probably not 1%ers; household income within the top 5% (for Indiana) seems pretty reasonable. So it might depend on where you draw the line for “upper middle class” and “upper class,” but I think Tony being “rich” has a decent likelihood. But not “fuck you money” level of rich.
This strip has confirmed something I’ve had brewing in my brain for months, now. The university needs an apocalypse. Something dire needs to happen to every single background extra and unseen-but-assumed student and faculty member at IU, resulting in their mass deaths or disappearances. Only the main cast and their friends should still be around, for at least one in-story month. It’s the only way to prevent The Incident®.
Cops can generally excuse most actions if they are in lukewarm pursuit of a fugitive believed to be severely injured. That precedent should be more than enough coverage for their asses, especially if they worst they did was peek in a few rooms and ransack the rest. It’s too real. Makes me sick. rip Floyd and Good.
What’s the alternative? Cops can’t search anything ever?
A warrant means that the cops gathered enough evidence to present to a judge, who then gives the cops permission to look for something specific. Anything the cops find that isn’t covered by that warrant is inadmissable. The warrant would have to say something like “yellow costume used to assault police officer.” If the police find sufficiently concealed evidence of other crimes not under the warrant, like drugs, they legally have to ignore that.
I also think his assumption is based off the fact that one would think to search an entire dorm, you’d need a warrant covering every room to be searched. I don’t know that for sure but that’d be my thinking too: “there’s no way they have 20+ warrants to search all these rooms”.
It’s not that easy. Especially when you’re looking for something as broad as this.
They’re often too easy to get, but rarely given for entire neighborhoods or even apartment buildings.
And of course, the implication here is that they didn’t get one.
it is also possible that a warrant is not necessary. Agreements for tenancy in the dorm may stipulate that random checks are permissible by University staff, and these may be campus cops not city police. If random checks are permissible by University staff (to preserve the ability of RAs to conduct drug searches) through the lease agreement. Also, People v Kelly (IANAL but damn this is an interesting question) gives precedent that the Dean of Residences can be the party that grants consent, so even the city police may not have needed a warrant because the Dean said “yes, you may search my building for the evidence you are looking for.”
Yeah, especially since cops aren’t legally required to actually show you the warrant even if they have one
Actually, that’s probably it, the cops did have a warrant (because they are incredibly easy to obtain) but they didn’t bother having a copy of it on their person
I wonder how Tony feels about that “probably”. I wonder if he equates being a good guy with following the rules because he’s had plenty evidence of not-so-good-guys ignoring the rules due to the power at their disposal.
It’s not certain, but at this point it’s been suggested several times and it would be a weird rug-pull for this to have been all legal and above board.
Do Christians have rules about leaving their holy books on the floor? I mean, I know Joyce isn’t Christian any more, but mistreating ritual objects is MASSIVELY problematic.
Some faith traditions treat their scriptures with reverence. Evangelicals underline /highlight things. More like a textbook you would mark up. When they wear out they get dumped in the garbage.
Ohhhhh tony. your reasoning for being against this raid make me trust you even less than before. “Without rule of law we have nothing” i’d break up with him on the spot
Oh wait, I misinterpreted that’s my bad. I didn’t realize “rule of law” just meant “the law should treat everyone equally”. I thought it was just a phrase for “law and order” type deal and he was saying “well they should have just followed the law, that’s what’s most important”. Still don’t trust him overall, but this statement isn’t what I thought it was
Tony might be tired of people slotting him primarily as the deans son. He’s a full time student athlete, working and studying more hours than most students while risking injuries. Probably has an espn profile. And people just go “ you’re the dean’s son”. Doesn’t matter on the field or classroom. He has no say in how his father does his job or what that job is. The dean certainly didn’t consult with him on the search. His focus is on his studies and his athletic career. Little time for other things. Is he not particularly interested in the protests? Only Asmah and Joss were. Joyce, Dorothy and AG were there by chance. Forget that he’s the deans son and give him the same break you’d give any other sophomore.
Just saying, I also question this “rule of law” from Tony when he’s the guy who let his buddy Paul the Incelerator walk away with a brush off when by Tony’s own morality Incelerator should be in jail. Throw all the toast at him!
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Oh boy, Tony is going to end up having to choose between the law, and Sarah.
I don’t think so. Tony loves “the rule of law,” which is just an idea opposite of the rule of man; that the law should apply to everyone fairly and equally. The university, probably including Tony Sr. especially, makes a lot of money selling bombs but they don’t like that it gives them bad PR, so they silenced a peaceful protest with riot cops. Pissing on the rule of law in order to get
b a lot of poor people bombed. Rather, Tony might have to choose between his principles and his dad.
Ya, this seems more likea personal dilemma that is actually about Sarah.
I agree with you, and I see two outcomes:
1) If his father is complicit with the police raid, Tony may have a downfall with his father, choosing his principles over parental bonds.
2) If his father is like Tony and is not complicit, they both will do everything in their power to right these wrongs.
Sarah thinking that the Dean would be willing to take legal action against the cops for what’s essentially an illegal raid… bold of her to assume that the Dean wasn’t the one who let them in in the first place….
Eventually, if he finds out about her friendship with Amazigirl, yeah. But right now, in this specific scenario, I see it more leaning toward him having to go against his father, because he sees these actions as wrong, and I doubt the dean was innocent.
wow whoever clocked Tony as a moderate, I’ll say, ya aint far off :0
I mean, it was probably the easiest prediction about him. Most people figured either that or center-right (same dif).
I mean yeah, globally moderates reliably score pretty right-wing
in the united states they *appear* leftist because they want civil liberties
but they believe in the system, and they will never be anti-establishment
Strongly agree, although that said, with regards to what Tony is saying in Panel 2, I think a distinction must also be drawn between believing in “the system” and believing in the rule of law as derived from consensus and common principles. What we’re seeing the Trump administration doing in recent weeks re: Venezuela and now Greenland is basically what happens when people simply go “Why should I follow the law at all? Who’s going to stop me?” It would herald a return to the law of the jungle, and it would threaten so much more than civil liberties or even human rights.
hard to tell who ppl are sometimes. although while some first impressions/instincts might be bs but if he was that bad/had signs i think sarah might’ve been more putoff at teh beginning (unless she was still thirsty/frustrated enough to be like “yeah he’s a piece of shit but i don’t mind doing a one night stand/hatef*** with him”) or os
Most people are so it’s a pretty safe bet statistically
Bingo
Looking into that, but from which direction?
so can we get to work on radicalizing tony now
*checks Bingo card*
Libertarian Tony!?
BINGO!
how is “without rule of law we have nothing” libertarian?
Very slippery slope of Non-Aggression Principle.
Amazi-Girl is a student. Amazi-Girl initiated force on the property belonging to the school and those protecting the school (riot police), ergo Amazi-Girl is in the wrong regardless of ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND CONTEXT.
Note: I admit to being half joking here, Tony’s response in the panel just—gave me a weird ‘this feels very libertarian’ vibe.
And while you might argue that the police initiated force first and thus Amazi-Girl was justified under the Non-Aggression Principle, that doesn’t count because trespassing is somehow use of force and thus attacking protesters isn’t initiating violence.
Libertarians are in favor of the rule of law, they just want a lot fewer laws, especially ones that tell them they can’t do things they want to do. Laws that that tell other people what they can’t do are fine.
What? I’ve been a libertarian this whole time?
Yes, and speaking in prose to boot.
Just remember that there’s a difference between “libertarian” and “Libertarian”. The big L indicates a political party that’s basically Republicans who like to smoke weed.
Eh, not really. I used to consider myself one, because I was and remain socially very liberal but fiscally I was fairly conservative, which is less so now.
Though there certainly are a bunch of white dudes who would have called themselves republican back then IF the GOP were less moralistic about sex and drug use and they were irritating and showy and became the brush that tarred the rest.
But that was back in like Clinton/early W time. Weed’s legal in most states because old white people found out it could make their joints hurt less (hey, maybe that’s why they call them “joints!”) and well on its way to being federally ok by prescription. Those guys are mostly MAGA now, just like the Tea Party assholes who muddied up the gene pool and called themselves Libertarian when that fell apart. I’d be shocked if a fair number of the people who were involved in the 1/6 insurrection weren’t former libertarians of that stripe. Especially that weird buffalo head guy.
There’s also a big difference between US libertarian and European libertarian. Europe still has a streak of left-libertarian thought, often tied to socialist or anarchist ideas.
Libertarians actually tend NOT to be big fans of rule of law, since laws tend to include things like regulations and age of consent that they’re not a fan of.
No no, they’re big fans of laws that oppress minorities, they’re just angry when the law puts obstacles on something they specifically feel entitled to. Like, poisoning the land or women.
This guy gets what I’m laying down.
In general anything that restricts their ability to use money to control people.
What eventually put me off libertarians in practice was noticing that none of the freedoms from legal restrictions they cared about meant anything if you weren’t at least middle class.
No, that’s more conservatives in general. Libertarians specifically USUALLY have a more consistent ideology than that, albeit one that’s extremely poorly thought out and collapses near-instantly everytime they try to put it into practice.
I tend to think that’s true of consistent ideologies in general, at least when if comes to organizing societies. Humans are messy and we adapt and exploit the rules of whatever system we’re in. If you try to put ideological consistency over practical experience, you can’t fix things that break.
yeah “libertarian” these days is a pseudo-intellectual label the alt-right uses for keeping white supremacist orientation plausibly deniable
they say they’re for free speech and shit but it’s a lie — leftist ideas are communist and therefore bad, the only reason to ever talk to us is for public mockery and ridicule
but you can interview a eugenicist, but that doesn’t automatically mean you’re endorsing them — “you know just hear them out, nothing should be off limits in the free marketplace of ideas”
it feels “safe” to them because Nazis and Klansmen are Totally Non-Political™ 👀
“Free speech” not only means you have to listen to my racist/sexist rant, but you can’t even criticize me for it.
I have literally never met a libertarian who believes in Rule of Law. Rule of Law is one of the classic foundational liberal beliefs, but its pretty contrary to many traditional libertarian beliefs.
(assuming he actually believes in Rule of Law and is being sincere here)
That one named cop: “Jesus Christ, that’s a lot of stuffies.”
His partner: “Stuff me, that’s a lot of Jesus Christ.”
Bravo. *slow clap*
This made me laugh out loud 😀
A lot of … what? Definition request on “Stuffy.” The only meanings I’m familiar with involve rooms without enough air flow and noses full of snot.
Shortened from “stuffed animal.”
Why did they feel the need to trash the rooms when they could have easily looked through stuff without making a mess?
All Cops Are Bastards means all cops are BASTARDS
1312!
they’re cops
“Petty spite” would be my guess.
It’s faster not to, and while some cops might have reasonable comsideration for the people they’re responsible for policing its more reliable to broadly assume they’re not that responsible.
Because they believe that due to their position of authority, they can literally do anything.
In a hurry; utterly uncaring about neatness or carefulness.
Pigs, unlike cops, are very clean in their particular way, and gentle and friendly.
There’s precious little overlap.
Yeah, it’s why I don’t use the “pigs” epithet for cops. Novels like Animal Farm aside, pigs don’t deserve their bad literary associations.
Pigs are messy like that
Cops tend to make big messes of things (for their job) and they aren’t expected to clean up after themselves. There’s apparently meant to be some other department or whatever that goes after to take care of things (like repaying people who have their doors kicked down and such) but that doesn’t ALWAYS happened.
Been pondering this and let me provide an example;
There was a shooting at a mall near me and while searching for the shooter, cops cut through security gates of several storefronts. I understand WHY they had to do this, HOWEVER the process of cutting through the gates really fucked with those storefronts, some of which were unable to roll the gates back up to open due to the damage and they had to just roll with the “person sized hole” to make an entrance into their shop. It became an issue for a while because the store owners were reasonably upset and wanted compensation to make their stores… you know, functional again, and local law enforcement basically gave them a big shrug. “We did what we had to do, not our problem, you need to fix it yourself” despite such a thing being estimated at several thousand dollars.
I am unfamiliar with any time ever that anyone was compensated for law enforcement kicking down their door. I mean it could have easily happened, but I never heard of it. I am not a lawyer, but sovereign immunity and suchlike tend to apply. If they are acting in the regular course of their duties, you can go pound sand.
Back when the mall thing happened, the article talking about it pointed out that there’s meant to be a department dedicated towards compensating for damages, however, I think the issue is getting them to actually DO it. Like bureaucratic red tape. The reasoning given in my example above was that “the damage was to a store rather than a house. It’s basically public property, therefore the property itself should fix it, not us.”
Corporate property is public property in the US? Has communism been victorious after all?
While I don’t believe Chloe is evil thanks to Word of God, I absolutely believe the next big villain will be the Dean. The Dean in this version of the school is not only supporting the Bulmeria genocide but also was the one who suck the cops on the students for being against it.
Also, pretty sure Walky’s mom used to date him? And we haven’t seen her in a while, would be a fun little surprise.
This makes me think of Amber not trusting Walky but instead calculating that his room is safer from his family ties to the dean (would be a cynical but interesting possible interpretation). Don’t think it’s the case, but it’s an option.
I’m not a USian and am only familiar with the structure of universities from media. Is a dean high in the pecking order?
Yes, but not at the top, and a big university like this one would have a number of deans. There would also be a President and some kind of board above the deans, and realistically, for something like declaring protests illegal and signing off on police raids on dorms, it would be them making the call and not a dean.
True but they always refer to him as THE Dean, so I’m taking Tony’s dad as the University head for simplicity.
But even if he’s not, he’s almost certainly a supporter of it all.
It’s not unusual for there to be a Dean of Students, or similar title, who’d have authority over things like the dorms and student organizations (as opposed to Dean of Arts and Sciences, or Dean of Engineering, who’d be in charge of academic programs).
Deans are pretty important within their area. But for all the talk of Tony’s privilege, a Dean is not in the top 10% that owns everything. Upper middle income to lower high income is more likely. Probably makes less than the president of a mid size company, but far from peanuts.
Yeah, the Dean is certainly doing okay, but he’s not in the ranks of Jennifer’s parents, much less the Ruttens.
At least, assuming all his finances come from the University.
True, he could be independently wealthy, but the only reason to think he’s rich is because he’s Dean.
In Indiana University’s case, there’s the Board of Trustees at the very top, then there’s the President of IU, then there’s the Chancellor of the Bloomington campus, then there’s the Provost, then there’s the deans (note: simplifying things significantly)
Yes. They are the head of their department or an administrative function.
… so, another evil dad.
Suck? What? Do you, perchance, mean “sicced?”
It was a bit of wordplay that seemed funnier at 1:00AM
Remember, the Dean in question is just one of the deans at IU. He may not have any say about law enforcement issues in the first place. A lot of readers seem to assume a Dean is the same thing as University President. By the way, the actual IU President is not popular with many people, both on or off campus.
Also, right now, the only thing anybody in the whole state cares about is undefeated IU’s bid for the college football championship Monday night against Florida.
Which Tony should be preparing for, not wasting his time cleaning up his girlfriend’s room or trying to talk his dad into reigning in the police.
Though maybe he’d be more successful as the star who just won the championship.
That’s right Tony, follow your heart…
Become Amazi-Tony.
If he turns to the Dark Side he becomes The Toneinator, tone-policing everyone.
I’m not sure why everyone assumes the university wasn’t on board with this and granted the cops permission to search the dorms
Speaking *very* generally, campus officials don’t need a warrant: actual police officers do.
Not if the university, which owns the dorms, gives the police permission. A warrant is not needed if permission for entry and search is granted by the owner of the property.
For the record, this is not true. Legally, they can grant access to common areas, but not individuals’ living spaces. Not that it doesn’t happen, but a half-decent lawyer could get that evidence thrown out in court.
That stops at bedrooms which constitute private dwellings
I don’t believe that’s correct. Many dorm agreements stipulate that the college can grant the police access to rooms, so while the fourth amendment applies, there are exceptions unlike in an apartment with a landlord. It depends on the college but it’s very possible the college was on board with the search AND legally capable of granting access.
It’s possible, but given that the lack of a warrant has been brought up multiple times in comic and the other idea hasn’t been, it seems very likely that the intent is that the lack of a warrant is relevant.
Is anyone assuming that? I thought the implication that the university okayed the search was fairly clear.
A charitable Chloe read would be that Puddinghead was trying to warn Asma to stay away for a few days.
Sarah JUST said she thinks the search is actionable, everyone is talking about warrants.
Seriously people the university was being protested, they’re the ones who changed the rules so that the protesters were all trespassing and got the cops to shut down the protest, the university is clearly not on the good side so I don’t understand why nobody else seems to think that the university gave the cops permission to do the search and is assuming they will be pissed about it. I feel like I’m crazy here
The university can’t give the cops permission to search residents’ private rooms. I’m not assuming that the university will be upset about this, but that just means that they’re complicit in the illegal search.
“nobody else”? Again, why are you portraying yourself as the only person with one of the views being expressed or explored?
Because I haven’t seen anyone else expressing it?
If we’re talking about the characters, it’s because most of them don’t have all the information.
“Everyone” did not make any such assumption, but you appear to have stated the (false) assumption that “everyone” did… I’m not sure why you might assume that, in the face of evidence otherwise. But I could be confused by the way you phrased this “… why everyone assumes the university wasn’t on board with this and granted the cops permission …”. Wasn’t on board with a search? So actually didn’t grant permission? Wasn’t on board with Privacy? So did grant permission? Asuumes the uni granted permission?
Is there a word missing that makes it all clear, as in a typo?
Sarah: Yeah, I am not happy.
Tony: I wouldn’t be. They should’ve had a warrant.
This pretty clearly indicates that they did not have a warrant to search student’s personal belongings, and that they were legally required to have a warrant to do so.
Why does that indicate that? Why do you think Tony knows everything that’s going on with the administration? His dad’s the dean but that doesn’t mean he knows everything
There’s two separate parts to this: Whether the university approves of this and whether the cops were acting legally.
I suspect it’s wishful thinking for Sarah to expect the Dean’s support here, but I also think that the cops acting without a warrant has been brought up multiple times in comic for the narrative purpose of establishing that they needed one and didn’t have it. If someone had countered that – even Rachel cynically last strip, that would be different, but that hasn’t happened.
Possible. It just seems like everyone is making assumptions. It would be pretty stupid for the cops to do an illegal search that would open them up to a huge lawsuit. It seems more likely the college would have given them permission, and narratively, when the students find this out they’ll be outraged and maybe lead to a big student protest.
Adding on, not only would it open themselves up to a huge lawsuit but also all of the evidence that they might find would be thrown away in court by a successful motion to suppress (depending on the judge of course). Cops do illegal searches all the time but it would be so unfathomably stupid for the entire police force to do an organized search of an entire campus illegally when doing so would jeopardize such a big case, that it seems far more likely that the college granted them permission. BUT of course this isn’t real life and it’s possible that Willis just wanted to make it an illegal search for drama
Then it would make sense to lay the ground for it by having a character suggest that maybe the school allowed it, rather than emphasizing the lack of a warrant.
Oh, Tony shot way back up my list again. Now he’s in the middle
….”probably”
Yeah he’s probably looking into how to better aid the police in their search.
…based on what? I mean, you could certainly be right, but what about his portrayal so far indicates a move in aiding or inhibiting the cops?
Did you forget the part where they turned an area of the university illegal to be on overnight to justify the police arresting people. He’s the dean. He was part of the decision.
Ah you meant the Dean. I think they thought you meant Tony.
Iiiiinteresting… better than I might’ve thought.
This comic was made like a year ago, yet is all the more relevant since we have a shit ton of wanna be cops going around doing shit without a warrant when they legally have to have one to do anything. ICE isn’t supposed to be able to go after a single person unless they have a warrant to do so, and they be out here attacking everybody who pisses them off or even looks slightly less then Trump’s Preferred shade of White Person.
And people recording them or doing anything they take as disrespectful.
This country needs some serious de-ice-ing.
So they didn’t have a warrant after all. That’s interesting, and likely to annoy a college administration that would otherwise probably be sympathetic to the police. I guess the cops were so embarrassed by Amazi-Girl that they felt like they had to swing their dicks around and rub in everyone’s face that they’re above the law.
Tony’s coming off better today, which I’m glad to see.
I imagine the genocide supporters are more annoyed that they didn’t bring in three people:
1. Amazi Girl
2. The impossible to identify gay LEADERS of the protest (listen, who is more likely to have organized a Pro-Bulmeria protest, an adult Muslim woman who works in administration of the mysterious blonde teenage white girls who clearly possess overwhelming charisma)
Fun fact #1: Universities kinda count as landlords to the students in their dorms.
Fun fact #2: Universties ONLY kinda count as landlords to the students in their dorms. Many tenant rights that exist in a normal tenant/landlord relationship don’t cover student dormitories. The details can vary by jurisdiction and by university.
Fun fact #3: Universities can often perform inspections of dorms, without the sort of advance notice that landlords typically need to give.
Fun fact #4: … which also means that they could invite cops to do the inspections on the university’s behalf. You know, as contractors or something like that.
Fun fact #5: Cops can pay confidential informants for help in their investigations. … not that I’m saying that whatever administrator is in charge of the dorms is getting paid by the cops to allow that inspection. No. not at all. If we said that, the confidential informant wouldn’t be confidential anymore, and that would be a contradiction, so it’s logically impossible to say it.
Fun fact #6: I might not know what the word “fun” actually means.
I can’t speak to what will happen in the comic, but *generally* while campus officials can search without a warrant in the USA, official police cannot. If they tried some sort of workaround like ‘hiring contractors’, that would probably be worse for the university and the police-if someone with resources, such as a dean, took official and legal notice.
It could well be worse for the university.
But my point is, the college administrator in question might be far from annoyed.
Oh, absolutely.
Other hand, somebody laid out the power structure of UI earlier, and if the Dean of Students authorized this, it would be about like the assistant shift manager at a chain store “authorizing” a warrentless search of the store’s inventory. The store manager, regional manager, and Board of Directors might… express disapproval.
Well, it’s very unlikely Tony’s dad authorized any of this by himself. He might or might not have been opposed, but it would have been a higher level decision.
The Dean isn’t the only one with resources involved. The Ruttech heiress lives on this floor.
Fun fact 3 reminds me that one time when I was a freshman, my dorm had a random fire drill. We had previously been told if we ignored a fire drill or did not exit our dorm during one that we could get in trouble. Cue my ass sleeping through the alarm and only waking up just after the alarm was done ringing. They did inspect the rooms but lucky for me they didn’t inspect very WELL (I went and hid in my closet, they did the most cursory glance over the rooms) but I remember being so scared I was going to be caught and expelled.
It’s quite possible the school isn’t going to do anything about it, unless they get a lot of pressure; my personal guess is that there is someone at the school who acts as the police contact, and so the school likely has warning in advance and can give its (tacit?) approval.
And this is assuming that this was not a university police department, in which case the police would already be tightly integrated with the university itself.
Hmmm so Tony is Lawful good or nuetral. I think I prefer that to him being uncaring of what effect on others as long as he’s not affected. Not great, as I’m chaotic good, but better lol
And yeah, I’m wondering about the dean too….
It’s generous of him to offer to help tidy.
might be more of a white privilege thing than him being full alt right or whatever
(tho given the other comments about him, i’d think some would ‘suspect’ his offer to help clean up but not rly much to snoop in )
He stepped up to put a stop to
inceleratorPaul’s harassment of Sarah, so it’s safe to say he’s not uncaring. Though it might be the “it’s happening right in front of me” sort of caring.If he was to be a DnD character, I’d see him as a paladin of Tyr.
Seemingly cold, but fair and just, while being unyielding towards oathbreakers.
So I think he sees the policemen as corrupt and unworthy of their office. I predict that if his father is willingly implicated in this affair, he may choose his principles over his bonds with his father.
Honestly, panel 2 is such a D&D paladin moment that I’m surprised ctrl+F only found the word “paladin” once. Then again, considering how many people use the law as a proxy for the way society should be run, without thinking about the reasons certain things have been made legal or illegal — or sometimes entirely aware of and approving of the way it unfairly targets certain people — that the sort of mindset you’re describing isn’t what usually springs to mind.
I’m personally hoping your read’s the right one. It’d be interesting to see such a mindset deal with the realities of the law as it actually is.
so this right here is a Paladin Relationship
I say this gently- not everyone character will align with you.
It’s definitely *possible* Tony will turn out to be a moderate, or even someone who reps the thin blue line and other such trash. But…*man* we don’t know that yet.
We don’t know:
1. What he thinks happened at the protest
2. What he thinks the police were doing in the dorms
3. Anything at all about his politics-‘I hope they found what they’re looking for’ becomes a very, very different statement depending on what he thinks they were looking for, and why.
‘His father is a dean and he’s a cis white guy, therefore sus’ maybe isn’t quite the progressive position some of y’all appear to think.
As for that ‘probably’, my interpretation is that ‘he will probably look into taking action’ rather than ‘he will probably object to this’. We also know nothing about his relationship with his father, unless I’m misremembering.
I’m honestly of the mind that a huge chunk of the cast’s opinion on the protest was, “What’s a Bulmeria?”
Which obviously is a view only fictional characters could have comfotably.
I can’t say I agree. ‘What’s happening on the other side of the planet?’ as a state of mind really is something lots and lots and lots of folks can exist in very comfortably.
I’m still maintaining that is both Joyce and Dorothy’s take on it.
At the very least Joyce’s take considering her upbringing. The church and schools run by the church usually don’t teach about the world outside their own bubble, to keep people in that bubble. They would bring up Bulmeria unless it was to make themselves look holy by donating money to a cause for them or something.
Dorothy, aiming to be a damn President, would 100% know about other country’s affairs. To be a good president you have to pay attention to that shit so you don’t get blindsided when shit goes down and you might get pulled into a War. This was probably covered in one of her classes if the school didn’t block that subject. She was a perfectionist that put 90% of her attention into becoming the best president possible, she wouldn’t cut corners, so she probably knows. That being said, it probably isn’t at the forefront of her mind as of late, her own personal bubble is a chaotic mess right now.
Dorothy, despite my issues with the character, tried to tell Hank about the nuances of the conflict. Which by nuances she was like, “The side you’re supporting is pretty evil, Hank, because the terrorists are just innocent people.” But she did it in her Dorothy-esque way and didn’t make much headway.
I would guess that would be the position of at least 50% of all college students until at least a month after numerous protest incident like this across the nation.
We really haven’t seen enough of Tony to have much idea of what his views are about the protest, the police, or politics in general. So I’m gonna wait and see on him I guess.
Exactly. So far just about the only political statement one could make about him, I think, would probably be ‘he’s not an anarchist’ based on his ‘without the rule of law’ statement.
Hang on, are you saying readers *shouldn’t* immediately start yelling at each other about how they are literally monsters for how they interpret Tony’s personality and actions based on like 15 minutes of screen time and should instead calmly wait for more information? That’s not the DoA comment section I’ve seen
What would be the fun of that? Also I hit the report icon first by accident. Sorry.
His rule of law statement, if he knows all the laws and rights, would make him pro-protest. The Protest was entirely legal and its the right of every civilian to do so. While I doubt he would have gone to the protest himself, I doubt he would be against it.
What that wouldn’t make him is Pro-Vigilante, because that is Illegal, he probably wouldn’t approve of Amber’s actions, unless her having saved the lives of Sarah and her friends changes his mind on that.
I assumed his “I hope they found what they were looking for” meant “I hope they didn’t just trash everyone’s stuff and ruin everyone’s day for no reason”. Dude seems like a dude who wants tangible outcomes for things happening (I base this seeming on…vibes)
This groks the situation better than anything I could come up with.
A lot of people become radicalized when the system hurts them or someone they care about. I’m not even saying Tony is conservative, but he could very well be a liberal who thinks the system is working fine. He’s very young and he might not have had anything to convince him otherwise, especially as he is a rich white guy.
“Probably”? I can think of some reasons why that would mean a “No.” None are good.
I really need to reread It’s Walky! sometime soon.
Laws only matter if the ones in charge follow them
And if the other two govt branches don’t roll over and let the execs do as they please.
Tony is reacting to this better than I expected. I’m glad he seems to not think that everything the cops do is good, though I’m wondering if we’ll see more of what he thinks about the cops and the protests in later strips, and if his views differ from Sarah enough that could cause problems for their relationship.
He’s the son of a dean, so I suspect he knows his dad must’ve approved this raid and wants to believe he’s acting in everyone’s best interests. The longer he’s around people tangentially connected to the protests and Amazi-Girl, the more cracks will show.
I believe he thinks that cops should only do good, but that this is way beyond what cops should be allowed to do and should be punished for this breach of trust (as well as the one(s) who ordered that police raid).
just ‘probably’, huh? I guess it might be too soon in their relationship to nudge Tony into talking to his dad about it
Mr. Cop left the bible behind.
Tony’s gonna have sex with Sarah and then start preaching for the downfall of society’s social structures like Felix the Cat.
*Fritz the Cat
Not felix. WAY different cat.
Haven’t watched those movies in aWHILE
I’m getting the impression that punching Incelerator was less because he was a villain and more because that was the only thing Tony can control in his life.
Incelerator was breaking the law.
Are we getting a character inversion arc, were Raidah begins acting more charitably while being grumpy, at the same time that Sarah starts using her personal relationships to accomplish her own ends?
Will they meet in the middle and bury the hatchet? Will they fully swap roles? Or will they both realize what’s happening and revert to form?
Honestly Tony’s more or less where I was when I was about 19. To be fair I still sorta agree that rules and law ARE important to a society running well. It’s moreso that I’ve accepted that it currently doesn’t? I’m less against the principle and moreso the execution.
I can’t think of a single society I’ve heard of that’s ever managed to run well, regardless of how many laws they had.
Some societies have been run better than others. Compare Switzerland with Zimbabwe.
I cant think of any of the opposite.
Societies that aren’t run well?
“Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice, and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.”
— Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
I still don’t know where to stand with this Tony fella. I hear “rule of law” and that worries me because rules and laws disproportionately target people that look like me while serving the rich which Tony just so happens to be. Is he just young and naive?
I think it does come from a place of optimism rather than outright authoritarianism, but he probably doesn’t realize how often rules and laws disproportionately target people like his girlfriend. I think this might be a sticking point for them.
“Rule of law” is the concept that NO ONE should be above the law, that laws should be fair and just to everyone following the laws, and that people in power should not be able to abuse the laws for their own benefits.
The “rule of man” is where an entity (king, council, emperor, dictator, and other forms of absolutist government) dictate what is the law and that this entity and their lackeys are above the laws.
So in this case in the comic, policemen searching every rooms for something undefined while leaving a mess and without apparent limits to where they can go is a sign that they are acting under the rule of man (AKA sent by someone powerful and spiteful).
If they were acting under the rule of law, they should have searched a single room or a few designated rooms with a limited warrant from a judge, IF they have a legitimate suspicion of who could be the culprit of the crime they are sent for, and shouldn’t touch other rooms if they didn’t find it in the designated room(s). Perhaps they could ask questions to voluntary students to maybe find clues as to where they should get the next warrant for, but not act until they get the next warrant except under exceptional circumstances.
The rule of law is what we should strive for, but it has been eroded for decades already…
The rule of law is a facially reasonable stance, but also gets used as a dog whistle to embrace an authoritarian state, ignoring that cops and government officials routinely break the law with relative impunity, painting “undesirables” as criminals whether they actually break any laws or not (even aside from whether the laws are fair and/or are enforced fairly)
Jury’s still out on which Tony means.
People keep referring to tony as “rich” but I feel like at best he’s probably upper middle class. Like he’s wealthier than ME, but College deans aren’t exactly 1%ers. Or really even have as much money as the CEO of a mid-sized company or a high up management position at a large one. At Best Tony probably has a large house and has never had to worry about where his food came from. Heck the “Dean” isn’t even the highest rank in the school authority ladder. Like I dunno maybe Dean McHenry is old money or something but if not and unless Tony’s mom is in the picture and also pulling down a 6-figure job he may just be…well off.
Which y’know…describes half the cast.
Probably not 1%ers; household income within the top 5% (for Indiana) seems pretty reasonable. So it might depend on where you draw the line for “upper middle class” and “upper class,” but I think Tony being “rich” has a decent likelihood. But not “fuck you money” level of rich.
So below several families in our cast.
Walkerton level rather than Billingsworth level, much less the Ruttens.
This strip has confirmed something I’ve had brewing in my brain for months, now. The university needs an apocalypse. Something dire needs to happen to every single background extra and unseen-but-assumed student and faculty member at IU, resulting in their mass deaths or disappearances. Only the main cast and their friends should still be around, for at least one in-story month. It’s the only way to prevent The Incident®.
There’s an apocalypse enough already 😒
Soggies?
I’ve read through Short packed! twice and I still don’t really “get” the Soggies thing.
Yeeeeee, The Dean singed on this for certain.
Super interesting what will happen when Raidah finds out.
My god, something that would put Raidah and Sarah on the same side. I’d be here for it.
Tony, you should come to clean to Sarah. She’s not going to be happy about it but she’ll be less upset than you lying.
Also holy shit 11 months is insane.
“What’s this?”
” ‘Other…Nobody’. It’s a modulator for my Darth Vader cosplay.”
A fan is usually sufficient but is much less purse sized.
Front-Facing Tony is a rare sight, but not as disturbing as Front-Facing Homestar.
Cops can generally excuse most actions if they are in lukewarm pursuit of a fugitive believed to be severely injured. That precedent should be more than enough coverage for their asses, especially if they worst they did was peek in a few rooms and ransack the rest. It’s too real. Makes me sick. rip Floyd and Good.
This is days later. Not at all “lukewarm pursuit”.
so, he would have been okay with the cops doing this with a warrant….
Oh brother, this guy stinks!
What’s the alternative? Cops can’t search anything ever?
A warrant means that the cops gathered enough evidence to present to a judge, who then gives the cops permission to look for something specific. Anything the cops find that isn’t covered by that warrant is inadmissable. The warrant would have to say something like “yellow costume used to assault police officer.” If the police find sufficiently concealed evidence of other crimes not under the warrant, like drugs, they legally have to ignore that.
oh boyhere we go
So, they inavertandly found out a book Joyce hadn’t throw out yet.
They went digging into the tubs of stuff Joyce kept that her mom brought over. Now Sarah will see those things. Wonder what she will make of them
I don’t understand what’s happening here. How does Tony know whether or not the cops had a warrant?
Tony doesn’t know whether the cops had a warrant, but he knows cops are generally required to have one before conducting an admissable search.
I also think his assumption is based off the fact that one would think to search an entire dorm, you’d need a warrant covering every room to be searched. I don’t know that for sure but that’d be my thinking too: “there’s no way they have 20+ warrants to search all these rooms”.
Warrants are actually very easy to obtain, most judges will grant one just because the cops asked
Getting 20+ warrants, especially when it’s to find someone who actually did assault cops, is child’s play
It’s not that easy. Especially when you’re looking for something as broad as this.
They’re often too easy to get, but rarely given for entire neighborhoods or even apartment buildings.
And of course, the implication here is that they didn’t get one.
it is also possible that a warrant is not necessary. Agreements for tenancy in the dorm may stipulate that random checks are permissible by University staff, and these may be campus cops not city police. If random checks are permissible by University staff (to preserve the ability of RAs to conduct drug searches) through the lease agreement. Also, People v Kelly (IANAL but damn this is an interesting question) gives precedent that the Dean of Residences can be the party that grants consent, so even the city police may not have needed a warrant because the Dean said “yes, you may search my building for the evidence you are looking for.”
Probably the same way he and Sarah knew, even before they entered the room, that it had been searched at all — they heard people talking about it.
Actually, looking at yesterday’s strip, Sarah knows a lot about the situation, probably due to finally reading her texts.
Yeah, especially since cops aren’t legally required to actually show you the warrant even if they have one
Actually, that’s probably it, the cops did have a warrant (because they are incredibly easy to obtain) but they didn’t bother having a copy of it on their person
I wonder how Tony feels about that “probably”. I wonder if he equates being a good guy with following the rules because he’s had plenty evidence of not-so-good-guys ignoring the rules due to the power at their disposal.
If the following text seems stilted, I attribute it to unrelated tiredness.
Warm relieved fuzzy feelings regarding Tony have been born from the contrast between this strip and the last panel of the previous strip.
This also puts in in mind of the parallel with Carla (the involvement of and relationship with parents in the context of the protest).
Okay, so Tony is not as bad as we might have feared, if not as good as we might have hoped, yet.
And we have confirmation(?) that they did not have a warrant
If the cops did warrant-up, Tony isn’t aware. But it’s not certain that he would know, right?
It’s not certain, but at this point it’s been suggested several times and it would be a weird rug-pull for this to have been all legal and above board.
Do Christians have rules about leaving their holy books on the floor? I mean, I know Joyce isn’t Christian any more, but mistreating ritual objects is MASSIVELY problematic.
Some faith traditions treat their scriptures with reverence. Evangelicals underline /highlight things. More like a textbook you would mark up. When they wear out they get dumped in the garbage.
Ohhhhh tony. your reasoning for being against this raid make me trust you even less than before. “Without rule of law we have nothing” i’d break up with him on the spot
Oh wait, I misinterpreted that’s my bad. I didn’t realize “rule of law” just meant “the law should treat everyone equally”. I thought it was just a phrase for “law and order” type deal and he was saying “well they should have just followed the law, that’s what’s most important”. Still don’t trust him overall, but this statement isn’t what I thought it was
Ouch, that’d be a messy breakup over a misunderstanding then.
Tony might be tired of people slotting him primarily as the deans son. He’s a full time student athlete, working and studying more hours than most students while risking injuries. Probably has an espn profile. And people just go “ you’re the dean’s son”. Doesn’t matter on the field or classroom. He has no say in how his father does his job or what that job is. The dean certainly didn’t consult with him on the search. His focus is on his studies and his athletic career. Little time for other things. Is he not particularly interested in the protests? Only Asmah and Joss were. Joyce, Dorothy and AG were there by chance. Forget that he’s the deans son and give him the same break you’d give any other sophomore.
*throws toast at Tony* BOOOOOO
I have never liked him and I’m not about to start now.
huh, why toast in particular?
isn’t the traditional ammunition usually like, tomatoes or something?
Just saying, I also question this “rule of law” from Tony when he’s the guy who let his buddy Paul the Incelerator walk away with a brush off when by Tony’s own morality Incelerator should be in jail. Throw all the toast at him!
I hope that Sarah can get like…. one romantic win. I don’t care if it’s Tony, I just need my girl to be happy.