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Actually, there was a clan, the Musk Dinasty, who turned all their children into males using the cursed springs, and once they were old enough they turned wild animals into girls to marry and have children…
So yes, cursed gender-swapped people can reproduce in the Ranmaverse, but it may be that only people permanently changed using the Pail of Preservation are able to do so…
I think I can vouch for this too. I’ve learned of 2 times Daniel The Human hasn’t found out about a girl having a crush on him until it’s over, too late to catch that flight, not a chance now…
…And I don’t think he’s too happy with me saying that. I better go now…
When my boyfriend first asked me out it went like this
Him: I’d ask you out but you’d say no
Me: I won’t say no…
Him: *continues to text about whatever else we were talking about, never actually asks*
I had to actually go back and say “dude I just said yes I’ll go out with you back there”, and 3 yrs later he still swears he wasn’t messing with me, that he really didn’t get it.
this kind of behavior is conflict-avoidant posing a WHOLE LOT more often than genuine cluelessness, IME.
in my youth I was conflict-avoidant to the point of total paralysis, but without having made any significant improvements in myself i am practically Genghis Khan compared to the social media generation(s)
As a general rule of thumb, guys are better at figuring out things, and girls are better at figuring out people. Not always, of course, but it’s why we guys have a reputation for being denser than neutronium.
I have learned that the singularity at the center of a black hole is less dense than myself by about 5 orders of magnitude. I’m so oblivious to people liking me, that I actually just found out I pissed of this girl I like because in the 4 years we’ve known eachother, I’ve never realized she’s flirting with me.
Girls can be too. Usually I can pick up on something but I mentioned before how my current boyfriend’s advances went over my head, including when he straight up told me he liked me
Apparently I had a friend who was really interested in me but I had no idea until I graduated – a year after she graduated herself.
I’m glad I never noticed, because I was too much of an imbecillic, immature little shit with tons of issues of his own to be with someone else at the time.
Not really, I think.
Both is possible I suppose.
But the key here isn’t that he’s not thinking about sex, it’s that completely oblivious to the tension and thus almost certainly to Joyce’s interest in him.
Well, when I ran It’s Walky as a Mutants and Masterminds game years ago, the woman playing Joyce decided that she was bisexual and polyamorous post-mindwipe (and made it seem entirely in-character and keeping with her established personality), so I could see Joyce dating both Raidah and Jacob… and yeah, that mental image is pretty hot.
Raidah’s worn those boots every time we’ve seen her since the party with one exception where she wore sneakers. Her look is almost certainly a little influenced by Joyce but the boots are probably not part of that.
Yeah – as I mentioned below, that strip is when we, the readers, were first clued in to Joyce’s present plan of seemingly intentionally going after Jacob for herself, instead of for Sarah’s sake.
It almost looks like Joyce and Raidah are seducing each other and giving each other coded stares like ‘man last night was great, your bf is so oblivious am I right’
And poor John – something I never thought I’d say about any version of that character/historical person – where being merely “a bit clever” in a family of magnificent bastards/evil geniuses makes you “the thick one.”
I’m not sure about Raidah in panel four. Is she sceptical because she knows everything is not fine; smug because from her point of view it is; or condescending because she considers Joyce insignificant?
Given what she said about Joyce to her friends when we last saw Raidah, I’d say condescending, thinking Joyce has no chance because she’s in her own words, “a mere child.”
If she actually though Joyce had no chance, she wouldn’t have raced down here as soon as she heard. She knows Joyce is a threat, but thinks she can handle it.
“Challenge accepted.”
Just because someone thinks that the other person has no chance doesn’t mean that they can’t start second-guessing themselves and feeling threatened or insecure.
Overlaps a bit with condescending, but I think she’s more bemused that Joyce thinks she can seduce Jacob away. “Oh, this is cute, give me your best shot” type thing.
Raidah, Panel 1: He’s mine, all mine!
Joyce, Panel 2: Hrmmm…
Joyce, Panel 3: Nope.
Raidah, Panel 4: I will take you DOWN, you two-bit hussy!
Joyce, Panel 5: Bring it, bongo!*
Dorothy, Panel 6: Are you two gonna throw down? Cuz it looks like you’re gonna throw down…
Jacob, Panel 7: Sure hope the pi’ gets here, soon…
While the looks between Raidah and Joyce are, in and of themselves, kinda sexy, I definitely feel that’s just a byproduct of what are “the gauntlet is thrown/challenge accepted” looks.
An “I know that you know that I know” look.
turning and turning in the widening gyre
the falcon cannot hear the falconer
things fall apart, dorothy cannot bolt
mere anarchy is loosed upon galasso’s pizza (and subs)
I feel like this is going to end with Jacob pissed at *everyone*, though, because once it inevitably all comes out, it’s also going to come out that everybody else was perfectly aware of what was going on and elected not to enlighten him, including *Joe* of all people. (And say what you will about Raidah’s relative behavior, she’s also perfectly aware of what Joyce is actually after and is opting to play games with Joyce instead of trying to have a calm talk with Jacob about it, which is fine grounds for *Jacob* to be… probably less upset with her than with everyone else, but still upset.)
I just think once it all comes out he’s going to feel like he’s been played for a fool.
…I think Raidah at least has a decent reason for not telling Jacob. Jacob mentioned how he has a pattern of having crazy-jealous ex’s, and Raidah doesn’t want to be that.
Plus, going “I think Joyce wants to seduce you away from me” is likely to be met by laughter by………… anyone that knows Joyce. Better to let Joyce try and, if Jacob does cheat on her? In Raidah’s words, fuck him, she deserves better than him.
Still, definitely seems like Raidah is, at the very least, bemused by Joyce’s actions here…
Except that’s clearly not Raidah’s attitude, despite saying it to Jacob.
As shown by her rushing down her and by conversation with her cronies about Joyce being or not being a threat.
She’s clearly not willing to let things play out as they will and then write Jacob off if necessary.
That might be met with laughter by Jacob, but others who know Joyce take it seriously – it was Sarah’s plan to start with and Joe made it clear he was worried about it too.
Because she was all like “Oh I trust you with Joyce, no problems, I’m not the jealous type”, while actually not trusting him with Joyce, being jealous and very likely planning something nasty to ward her off. She is trying to police his fidelity, in your words. Without telling him.
She did trust him with Joyce until it became clear Joyce had a crush. It’s not paranoia to think someone is trying to get with your boyfriend if they really are trying to get with your boyfriend.
That said, the best way to handle that would be to point out to Jacob ‘Hey, your friend has a crush on you’ so she’s still not being upfront about this either.
Maybe. OTOH, it’s not like she’s said anything about revoking that trust. I don’t think she’s been honest about it from the start.
The whole “if you cheat then to hell with you” bit in that scene, doesn’t really fit with her actions and attitudes since, except as a pose for Jacob.
I don’t think she’s paranoid, but I do think she’s not playing it straight with her boyfriend.
If I were Dorothy, I think I’d abruptly remember I had a term paper due in an hour and RUN.
Also, I was a little more okay with the current storyline when I thought Joyce was just subconsciously chasing that tingling bubbly sensation she gets when she hangs out with Jacob. This nonverbal exchange between Joyce and Raidah feels really. . .intentional.
It’s been intentional on Joyce’s part ever since Sarah tried to apologize to her for using her to get at Raidah, only for Joyce to respond that no apology was necessary (followed closely by Joyce privately making a face very similar to today’s).
I’m with you. This is the first time we’ve seen Joyce behave in a manner that smacks (albeit mildly) of self-interest and conflict instead of her usual Goody Two-Shoes style.
On the one hand, it’s about time Joyce started showing some agency on her own behalf. On the other, I worry she might be moving into waters that are too deep for her.
? Joyce has done plenty of things that are out of the ‘goody two shoes’ wheelhouse. She does plenty of (admittedly low end) selfish stuff. Just look at her history of invading boundaries.
That’s not *good*, but it’s very much in the “goody two-shoes” Nice Christian Girl wheelhouse. Joyce kind of bounces between nice and “Nice”, this is the first thing here that isn’t either. If that makes sense.
I need to learn how to meme. I’m seeing panels 3-6 as head shots from the final duel in “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,” with panel 3 as Tuco, panels 4 and 6 as Blondie, panel 5 as Angel Eyes. Or maybe reversed for 4-6, who knows.
Joyce arrived to college dead set on finding herself a man… but with an childish idea of what it meant, and with a complete lack of understanding of how to pull it off.
Things… happened to her. The mutually disastrous date with Joe. The assault at the party. Becky coming out to her and onto her. Her… it’s complicated-feelings towards Dorothy and Walky and now latest, her stupid matchmaking-scheme between Jacob and Sarah turning into a betrayal-soaked petty revenge-scheme between Sarah and Raidah.
And she came out on top of all that. She changed. She learnt, and now she is ready to fulfill her dream from the beginning of the comic as the much more competent, mature and – frankly – scary – person she has become.
Pity that her dream still involves “defeating” another woman to gain her “price”. Plenty of toxic relationship norms have NOT changed.
But still, apart from inviting Becky, decking Toedad and leaving church with Becky and her father – this is perhaps the strongest milestone of character growth for Joyce. She is no longer what she was in the beginning of the comic. She is something someone like Raidah really should look out for.
I find it weird that you’re painting this behavior as exemplifying any kind of character growth. Joyce is being nasty, manipulative, dishonest and unfair to not only Raidah but Jacob here. This is bad behavior and she doesn’t deserve to be rewarded or applauded for it.
I don’t endorse it. I don’t applaud it…. OK, fine. I kinda applaud it. I’m biased in her favor, that’s true.
But it IS Joyce having achieved her goal from the beginning of the comic, by reaching outside of her limitations.
I don’t endorse Raidah’s behavior either (in the strip I linked she is possessive, manipulative and a high-school-Billie-level Alpha Bongo. And Joyce, in this strip, is a worthy challenger to her. She has become good at playing a bad game. She is not yet wise enough not to play.
I’m also rooting for Joyce, but at this point I am certain things will go horribly wrong before they can go right. Jacob will not appreciate the deception. He will reject Joyce and she’ll be devastated. I think he will also figure out Raidah isn’t really a good person either and he’ll eventually break up with her too. I think Jacob may swear off relationships for a while. He may guilt trip himself for leading Joyce on or letting himself be tempted.
But things cannot go badly forever. I imagine after a while Jacob and Joyce will become friends again, and maybe even date.
Great analysis, Bagge ; D ! (And not someone else, you’re super right about growth and thank you for saying it.) Helped me finally figure out what exactly I do and don’t like about this whole sequence of events.
To me, Joyce has struggled with self-confidence since early in the comic. She’s used to having irrefutable rules handed to her. As long as she was following the rules, as long as she knew she was 100% in the moral right, she could do nearly anything, so it’s hard to see that low confidence. But her values have been getting challenged the entire comic, leaving her struggling as she realizes the world isn’t black and white and that she might have to take actions while knowing that not everyone will agree with them.
It’s taken her a very long time, but Joyce is finally learning to have confidence and justify her actions for herself. Which is incredible for someone who started off believing that such self-justification is one of the greatest sins of all. It’s actually an extremely important skill, in moderation.
It’s just that this is Joyce, and she’s taking it entirely too far in the opposite direction. And that could become terrifying if she gets much worse about it. But I’m confident Joyce’ll turn it around. It’s just a question of how long it takes! Two steps forward, ??? steps back!
No. No. The look on Raidah and Joyce’s face say Game On. The look on Dorothy’s face says Oh shit. The look on Jacob’s face says I’m going to enjoy this. Of course he’s thinking about the pizza. Maybe.
Definitely the pizza. I think that Willis has established definitively that Jacob is totally unaware of and unable to perceive the Joyce-Raidah rivalry dynamic.
The alt-text is making me thing of “Run, Lola, Run.” I’m guessing that in the next 20 (in-universe) minutes the choices Dorothy makes, and the random events that she encounters, will have crucial impacts on the lives of her and those around her.
Willis, stuff like this page is why you got the result you did on that survey about “why do you like Joyce?”, not that it’s a bad thing; the girl needs to be
more self-centered than she is.
Oh, ouch. This is ugly. It’s even uglier because Jacob is totally unaware of the stare-down Raidah and Joyce are clearly enjoying here! If I were Dorothy, I’d already be out of the door. Some things you just don’t want to get into the middle of!
Raidah: “Joyce, I know you can hear my thoughts. If you touch Jacob, I am gonna fuck you up.”
Joyce: “Raidah, I know you can hear my thoughts… woah, what is this satanic magic?!”
Dorothy: “SOS SOS SOS This is a ship war!”
Jacob: “Maybe I should have ordered a meat lovers pizza. Should I ask for bacon? Is it too much for my diet?”
“Okay, we’ve got one small pepperoni, one individual cheese, one individual “brain food special” with anchovies and pickles, and one extra-large double-hijinks with all the hijinks then picked off and served on the side.”
I’ve seriously lost a LOT of respect for Joyce once we saw her motives quite consciously shift from wanting to talk up Sarah and hope for the best to actively scheming to break up Jacob’s relationship for herself, and today just furthers that.
I used to ship them. I don’t any more. Imo her behaviour damages any chance of their relationship working and I think she deserves that.
That Joyce in panel 5 strips the reader of any illusion that she’s acting out of innocent naivete. She’s clearly saying to Raidah: “I know that you know what I’m doing and I don’t care that you know. Even though you know, I’m still doing this and I’m still going to win so get used to that idea.”
As I’ve said in a previous post: This is going to get very, very ugly.
Yeah this is going to be an uncomfortable and painful lesson of “It turns out that your ideas of twoo wuv don’t justify any and all behavior” which hey I guess also highlighted in the previous strip.
Honestly, I don’t think this is a case of her trying to get her MRS., like we her motive being in the beginning. This isn’t a true love conquers all thing. I honestly see this as her seeing someone she has interest in, and being confident enough to go after them (Thanks Joe). I think Joyce is less naive than people credit her for now. I think Radiah is bit less innocent in all this too. We already know from previous strips that she thinks she’s got Jacob wrapped around her finger, since she already told her friends she knows the best way to work him is to compare him to his brother and remind him how much he needs to make his family proud (Which is pretty damn weird for a relationship as short as theirs, considering they probably didn’t know each other that well before they started dating). Her intent on grooming Jacob like this is more manipulative to me than Joyce flirting.
Regardless about how I feel about Jacob and Raidah’s relationship, As long as they don’t physically cheat, I see no problem. If Jacob doesn’t see Joyce like that, he won’t act upon it. I doubt Joyce would ask him out herself. If he does like her and decides he likes her more than Radiah, I doubt they’d do anything before he breaks up with her.
I’ve never been a fan of the idea of someone running into a wedding at the last moment to get their love back, but I honestly have no problem with what Joyce is doing as long as her main goal isn’t to actively harm Radiah ( I know people will fight me on this, but Radiah getting hurt as a byproduct of Joyce going after Jacob, rather than the intent, is the thin gray line that I see). Not saying Radiah wouldn’t be right to be p*ssed. She 100% Should be. Just saying I don’t see Joyce as being in the 100% moral wrong for going after Jacob.
But yeah, even if Joyce and Jacob do get together, there’s no way Radiah is gonna accept that lying down. Joyce is gonna feel the screws no matter how this goes down. Radiah’s a Sophomore, right? 2.5 years is a long time to be spending on a campus (Granted, a relatively large campus) with someone who definitely hates your guts and knows exactly where you live and what your major is. Ask Sarah.
I mean, sure, Joyce isn’t intending to hurt Raidah, but by this point I think she’s aware that by breaking them up she WILL end up hurting Raidah, yet she still decides to go through with it, and in my book that’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
You know, compared to the really shitty things going on out there, a little tug of desire over a guy in a one month relationship doesn’t really make a blip on the radar.
People who want different things than you do are unintentionally hurt by it all the time. It’s unavoidable. Because not getting what you want hurts.
That’s life. There are times when you need to decide if you are going to hurt yourself or someone else, i.e. you are not getting what you want or they are not getting what you want.
In our first world society, most of that does not concern anything any of you actually requires to live.
I, personally, do not trust people who constantly hurt themselves.
Yes, becoming an adult is all about finding out who you want to be and which kinds of acts lead in the direction you want to go and which don’t. Where you think you hurt yourself more by going for something you want because you betray trust others have in you, or maybe a “greater good” you aim for, or where you think you betray yourself if you don’t. Everyone has to find their own answers.
Acting with the intention of hurting someone is a different story.
Acting without concern for how your actions hurt people isn’t actually all that much better. Hurting someone because you just couldn’t give a damn about their feelings is still a really shitty thing to do. Also “worse things happen therefore this bad thing is comparatively fine” is a truly garbage argument. Just because the petty cruelties aren’t grand atrocities doesn’t mean they don’t still matter and aren’t still wrong.
I also don’t know why women in the US are all that concerned about having their reproductive rights taken away and being paid less than their male counterparts, when there are women who have to live in literal war zones with actual zones.
See, I can use “whataboutism” too.
Now excuse me while I go bleach the fingers I used to type that first paragraph.
I case this was a response to me, it seems you didn’t get my point.
I’ve been constantly wondering why everybody makes such a fuss about Joyce wanting Jacob and the fact that, in case Joyce gets what she wants, Raidah will be hurt. Or at least her pride will be. So what? Though being dumped for someone else hurts, yes, so does not being loved back when you love. Both are things that happen in life, one or both of them to nearly everyone. It’s part of the human condition.
Being underpayed, threatened or harassed as a women is just part of capitalism and patriarchy, both hopefully soon gone phases of organization larger societies. They are part and parcel of power structures to exploit.
Not at all the same thing as the human desire to love and be loved.
As long as no one cheats, lies, backbites, gaslights, or does any other act that in and of itself is an act to hurt someone else let them find their ways through that without policing them.
I see that she had been acting to help Sarah. Again, to Joyce, any detrimental effects to Raidah are nothing she thinks about. Raidah definitely wasn’t her fokus. This may have changed with this scene, now Raidah has pissed her off.
Also, even if her initial idea was “let’s break them up” (which again, it wasn’t, it was get Sarah the nice guy), this has changed in the meantime.
Which is rather normal behavior. The people who hang on to their ideas to get even are dangerous but as we saw, both Sarah and Joyce have to much of a life to keep being stuck there.
Though Joyce might start her own “get even with Raidah” program this minute. We’ll see how long she is busy with that.
I find the reflexive hating of Raidah for honestly very bad reasons and basically just because a protagonist-proximal character hates her to be… not surprising, but creepy and depressing.
Or it’s people transferring hate from some other iteration of the character in the Walkyverse, which, idk, I’ve only read DoA, but I think the work should be read on its own and not based on the assumption that character traits transpose at a 1=1 basis.
No… If she leaves now, doused with chemicals, then struck by lightning which will inevitably undo Monkey-Masterpoint. This change in the timeline results in the It’s Walky Timeline re-asserting itself.
Joyces main problem seems to be an almost arrogant and naiv belief that she knows best Sarah tried to warn Joyce about Joe and was ignored which led to Joe being physically assaulted, Joyce thought she knew best for helping Ethan back into the closet and that didn’t have a happy outcome either even after bragging to Sarah she had the dating down pat
Joyce gave Joe a (much needed) lecture on treating women as human yet here shes basically doing the same thing to Jacob. She knows Jacobs with Raidah but shes decided that its ok to attempt to break up Jacob and Raidah because, she, Joyce is the more deserving of him irregardless of what Jacob may think.
Again Joyce thinks shes got all worked out but its all going to come crashing down on her (again),which is probably what she needs to have happen to get it through her skull
She’ll be doing well if Jacob wants to have anything to do with her once he learns about how she was trying to manipulate him
That’s the main problem with fundamentalists in general: their rabid belief that they can impose their determination of whats best for people onto them with zero regard for what said people actually want.
You could argue one behaviour of Joyce is similar to behaviours and beliefs of mentioned group, and originated from it.
But imo, this is the first conciously shitty thing Joyce is doing, and she has to know it is, different to how she could say messed up stuff and think it was perfectly normal and fine (how many others then pointed out to her). This is concious. And I’m curious to see how it ends.
I’ve been giving Joyce a lot of shit for this plot arc… but I will grant her this: When she realizes she’s being a bad person, she immediately course corrects. She knows she should be a good person, she wants to be a good person, but her fucked up upbringing makes it hard for her to discern what’s good and what’s fucked up.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish she didn’t need quite so many buckets of cold water thrown in her face, but I do appreciate that she’s trying to be better. Far too many are quite comfortable being vile dick-weasels.
FWIW, up until now (and possibly continuing, because nothing has actually happened l) Joyce’s method of ‘trying to break up Jacob and Raidah’ is… being friendly and openly sharing Jacob’s interest in fitness and religion. She has not badmouthed Raidah, nor has she talked herself up. She has not arranged wacky hijinks to implicate Raidah in bad things.
Honestly from the way comments are reacting, you’d think Joyce had ordered hits on Raidah or drugged Jacob’s food. Joyce is under no obligation to cut a boy she likes out of her life completely because he happens to be involved with a different girl.
Her intentions and feelings are irrelevant as long as her actions – which, again, have been ‘being a friend who shares Jacob’s interests’ – remain non-pressing.
She doesn’t have to cut him out of her life completely, but she is intending to break him and Raidah up and win him for herself, even if her methods aren’t underhanded.
I’ve been friends with girls I had crushes on that were dating other people. I didn’t have to cut them out of my life, but I also restrained my self from flirting with them or otherwise trying to get their romantic interest. It’s not hard to do and it’s very much not what Joyce is doing.
And boy oh boy is it important to note that someone can be incredible moral, and still be a horrible person. Because boy oh boy, some moral guidelines are just NASTY. (Leave one never make the mistake of thinking moral=good, eh?)
I’d say, regarding Joyce, that she’s more or less the other way around. She’s a really nice person whos moral foundation is becoming shaky, due to various reasons. I’d say some introspection could be in order.
Then again, I’m just some dude commenting about a fictional character that I like
Joyce’s morals are pretty consistent here with what she said at the bar actually- there are these various moral principles, but all of them can be discarded if it’s in the name of “true love.” So she can rationalize this shitty behavior to herself because y’know. Totes true love. And not just a puppy crush on someone she barely knows that’s mostly physical.
Nope! Raidah has never dressed this way before at all! She apparently made these style choices at some point after her declaration that Joyce was no threat to her at all. For reasons.
A thing I can’t flipping stand about Raidah is that whole “she’s a freshman child” thing. Raidah is only one year older than our main cast. She’s not exactly a worldly, experienced adult.
To be entirely fair, we don’t know exactly how old Raidah is – after all, Dorothy is nineteen (and has been since the beginning of the comic), but still only a freshman; similar for Dina, whose nineteenth birthday has been mentioned a few times to be coming up soon. Raidah could easily be twenty, twenty-one, something like that.
It’s not uncommon in college. And not entirely inaccurate. Sure it’s only a year, but for many there’s a lot of growing up in that first year away from home.
I think this is the authors take on Joyce being overly influenced by bad rom coms. In that Joyce sees herself as “the good girl” who deserves the boyfriend (Jacob) and she’ll win because its obvious that she and he should be together and once Raidah sees this she’ll just depart never to be seen again
Jacob is oblivious to all this because hes man and as such he doesn’t know whats happening and it wouldn’t matter anyway because “the good girl” just knows whats best for him
Raidah is of course undeserving of Jacobs affections and as soon as he realises just how wonderful Joyce is and how mean and spiteful Raidah is he’ll fall madly in love with Joyce and they’ll live happily ever after
Which is how I think Joyce is (subconsciously) justifying her actions here, its also interesting to note that shes objectifying Jacob and not even considering his wants or desires which is what she gave Joe a talking to about
Joyce does have all the tools needed to accomplish this physically, after all shes attractive with a nice body, but shes nowhere near emotionally ready to cope with the probable fallout of all this blowing up in her face
Nope. I just plain don’t like Joyce’s plan or behavior in this storyline.
That’s not to say I dislike the storyline. From a narrative perspective it’s great. But from a character perspective, Joyce is acting inappropriately and immorally.
But let’s step back a second. Do I really think that “Hey, this guy is dating someone in his sophomore year in college, therefore he is off-limits forever”? No. You don’t get married after one date. Early in the dating process, people are still evaluating other people and trying to find the best match, and just because someone has been dating for a few months doesn’t mean they (and the other person) couldn’t be happier with someone else.
But that decision should be made by the people *in* the relationship, not by people outside of it. It’s one thing for Joyce to hang out with Jacob because she likes his company, and another thing for her to specifically try to seduce him. It’s dishonest, and it is also very likely to blow up in her face (though she may deserve that at this point.)
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jacob&pizza OTP
maybe i should make my next avatar that hot, hot slice of pizza
Yes.
Maybe David will oblige you by putting two pieces of pepperoni or sausage too close together so they are overlapping and thus look like a butt?
One True Pizza
One True Pepperoni
Next Slipshine confirmed.
Find someone who looks at you the way Jacob thinks of pizza.
Has he ever looked at Raidah that way?
I second this!!!!!
Fixed it.
Are you saying Jacob wants to eat Dina?
man, who doesn’t
Who want’s Jacob to.
Third base.
No Jake that’s cannibalism
Also her girlfriend is like RIGHT THERE
man, if they got together and harnessed the power?
DINA-RAIDAH
Aaaand proof that Jacob’s oblivious
Or he just has his priorities straight.
You go to Galasso’s for pizza (and subs), not adolescent love triangles.
Save that shit for Pop Tate’s.
not a Rumiko Takahashi-esque Love Centahedron?
Does Joyce turn into a boy when she gets splashed with water?
Just don’t ask what would have happened if she was pregnant and did that. Rumiko doesn’t think about it and neither should you.
Fairly certain Akane couldn’t get Ranma pregnant , not without yet another cursed spring accident.
Oh, but in the slash fics…
What about ranmas male suitors? I mean to be fair, from what I remember a good chunk of them could be pretty rapey
…okay that was dark
I read once that the author herself said that Ranma’s sterile in female form.
Actually, there was a clan, the Musk Dinasty, who turned all their children into males using the cursed springs, and once they were old enough they turned wild animals into girls to marry and have children…
So yes, cursed gender-swapped people can reproduce in the Ranmaverse, but it may be that only people permanently changed using the Pail of Preservation are able to do so…
No, but she does travel back in time six hundred years when she falls into a well.
That will take 10000 chapters to finally finish?
I’m with the Nostalgia Critic on this one – guys can be exceedingly dense when it comes to women being interested in them, and I’m speaking as a guy.
Speaking as a guy we can be exceedingly dense in almost ANY situation.
Truth. :-/
Yep
I think I can vouch for this too. I’ve learned of 2 times Daniel The Human hasn’t found out about a girl having a crush on him until it’s over, too late to catch that flight, not a chance now…
…And I don’t think he’s too happy with me saying that. I better go now…
Yuuuup. I’m also a little oblivious about such things. The disappointment after you finally put 2 and 2 together is palpable…
Well, men ARE genetically inclined to be larger and stronger, so it would make sense for us to be denser…
…!
What? Why is everyone mad at me?
Amen. My buddies used to make a game out of seeing how many times I would miss someone flirting with me. The score was literally every time.
When my boyfriend first asked me out it went like this
Him: I’d ask you out but you’d say no
Me: I won’t say no…
Him: *continues to text about whatever else we were talking about, never actually asks*
I had to actually go back and say “dude I just said yes I’ll go out with you back there”, and 3 yrs later he still swears he wasn’t messing with me, that he really didn’t get it.
this kind of behavior is conflict-avoidant posing a WHOLE LOT more often than genuine cluelessness, IME.
in my youth I was conflict-avoidant to the point of total paralysis, but without having made any significant improvements in myself i am practically Genghis Khan compared to the social media generation(s)
As a general rule of thumb, guys are better at figuring out things, and girls are better at figuring out people. Not always, of course, but it’s why we guys have a reputation for being denser than neutronium.
I have learned that the singularity at the center of a black hole is less dense than myself by about 5 orders of magnitude. I’m so oblivious to people liking me, that I actually just found out I pissed of this girl I like because in the 4 years we’ve known eachother, I’ve never realized she’s flirting with me.
Girls can be too. Usually I can pick up on something but I mentioned before how my current boyfriend’s advances went over my head, including when he straight up told me he liked me
No kidding.
Apparently I had a friend who was really interested in me but I had no idea until I graduated – a year after she graduated herself.
I’m glad I never noticed, because I was too much of an imbecillic, immature little shit with tons of issues of his own to be with someone else at the time.
Men are bred for density so that they can be used in high-strength alloys.
Or low-key ace… Or both. Both is good.
*insert Road to El Dorado meme here*
Would that make him…obliviace?
Okay, so I’m platonically super-duper in love with you for making that pun. It was too great. ^_^
Not really, I think.
Both is possible I suppose.
But the key here isn’t that he’s not thinking about sex, it’s that completely oblivious to the tension and thus almost certainly to Joyce’s interest in him.
“. . . MORTAL KOMBAT!!!”
ROUND 1. FIGHT!!!
Raidah… Joyce… Dorothy… SAUSAGE PIZZAAA!!!
ALL HANDS, SHIP IS CHANGING COURSE, REPEAT, SHIP IS CHANGING COURSE
Ironically, this might be the most normal Joyce has ever acted…
And this is when Joyce and Raidah fell for each other
PLOT TWIST
“WARNING – THIS IS A PLOT COMPLICATION! WARNING – THIS IS A PLOT COMPLICATION!”
/obscure?
“It would appear that Mr. Snott is about to eat a sub without mustard.”
“Logical as always, Mr. Schlock.”
I’m okay with this.
Well, when I ran It’s Walky as a Mutants and Masterminds game years ago, the woman playing Joyce decided that she was bisexual and polyamorous post-mindwipe (and made it seem entirely in-character and keeping with her established personality), so I could see Joyce dating both Raidah and Jacob… and yeah, that mental image is pretty hot.
That would absolutely break Becky tho. And by extension, Dina.
Oops, that was meant to be in reply to King Daniel.
But it works for either, so we’ll let it slide.
And sarah
I would also break Dotty’s mind.
I want this
HONESTLY I WISH.
THe more I look at panels 4 and 5, the more I think Raidah and Joyce are, ah, eyebanging one another across the table.
Well then.
Popcorn/snacks of your choice, anyone?
Now imagine this strip without Jacob’s thought bubble in the last panel.
Much better!
Without the thought bubble I’d assume he was working on a threesome.
And he’s not Joe.
And the fascinating thing is, to the people actually there the thought bubble is invisible.
It’s the Battle of the Collarbones!
No they’re all wearing mics!!
Yes, that’s right. Just think about the pizza Jacob. Nothing else is as important.
just pepperoni?
It’s all one needs.
It used to be enough, but now I want more toppings on my pizza like beef, capsicums, mushrooms and jalapeños.
And pineapple.
One may want these things, but pepperoni is the only thing a good pizza truly requires.
Pizza is the only true love
Raidah and Joyce will be disappointed in the end. Jacob will marry a nice 12 inch pepperoni and they’ll live happily ever afer.
Forgot the pizza. Marrying a 12 inch pepperoni is a different matter entirely.
careful, that’s getting dangerously close to Amber slashfic territory
Careful? That’s probably the next slipshine, Jacob furiously masturbating while working a 12″ pepperoni in and out of his hiney.
Phrasing…
Run Dorothy and Jacob! Run before y’all get caught in the collision of SS Joyce and SS Raidah!
But if Dorothy leaves now, how will she ever end up with Joyce?
That was in the slipshine continuity. It counts as an alternate universe.
You seem to be confusing my jokingly rabid shipping with actual confusion.
Someone mentioned it yesterday… that Raidah might be copying Joyce’s outfit… and there it is, she is wearing boots. I think they were spot on.
Raidah’s worn those boots every time we’ve seen her since the party with one exception where she wore sneakers. Her look is almost certainly a little influenced by Joyce but the boots are probably not part of that.
* Correction: She’s worn other shoes since then. However, the point that she’s worn those boots before more than once stands.
Mmm, I’ve seen many girls wear those Uggs-like boots when I went to college. Not super uncommon.
Thank you for noticing too, either she’s doing it on purpose or the dude attracts a very particular type of girl.
Oh no!
…Jacob’s thinking about pizza!
Clearly Jacob is focusing on the most important thing here.
When a woman says “everything’s fine”…you’re screwed.
And, you know, it’s fine. She’s fine. Everything’s fine.
Stop the faces
I’m starting to feel as though there should be an Anti-Joyce tag.
Hey, Becky already noted the appearance of an Anti-Joyce when they went back to Joyce’s home a couple years back…
I’m confused about Joyce’s plan. Is she trying to get Jacob to break up with Raidah for her so that Sarah will have her revenge?
I think, now that Joyce is aware of the plan and that she wants Jacob herself, that is a tertiary objective.
Yeah I don’t even know what Joyce wants at this point. But all will make sense in time, I hope.
It isn’t complicated. A tale as old as time.
Jacob.
That’s what Joyce wants.
Cue The Flying Lizards.
Glad I’m not the only one who got an Anti-Joyce vibe from that look in panel 5.
I was thinking of that “Truth Or Stare” episode the other day.
…is joyce doing a sexy look
joyce where did you learn to make one of those
The dup-o-matic?
We’ve seen sexy self-confident Joyce before. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/sniping/
Yeah – as I mentioned below, that strip is when we, the readers, were first clued in to Joyce’s present plan of seemingly intentionally going after Jacob for herself, instead of for Sarah’s sake.
It almost looks like Joyce and Raidah are seducing each other and giving each other coded stares like ‘man last night was great, your bf is so oblivious am I right’
Joyce: “Yeah, Dorothy has no idea.”
I love me some crack pairings.
YES
Ohhh boy…Joyce, please don’t, you are gonna get chewed up and spat out :c
I’m scared.
She know! And she knows she knows, but does she know she knows she knows?
You know.
Who knows.
and we both know what we know
You do
But we don’t. (Unless I lost track.)
If I know, do they know I know?
But s/he’s got Problems.
“But I didn’t. I only knew that you knew that I knew that you knew. Did you know that?”
“I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows, and Henry knows we know it.
We’re a knowledgeable family.”
(Such a delightfully f-ed up family / movie.)
And so quotable.
Probably my favorite movie.
And poor John – something I never thought I’d say about any version of that character/historical person – where being merely “a bit clever” in a family of magnificent bastards/evil geniuses makes you “the thick one.”
John: My God, if I went-up in flames there’s not a living soul who’d pee on me to put the fire out.
Richard: Let’s strike a flint and see.
(Among other things, it’s my touchstone for Zelazny’s Amber books.)
Isn’t it though.
It’s great inspiration for running an Amber RPG.
My mom still quotes the “he’s got a knife!” bit at me every Christmas when we’re making dinner.
Damn, confident bongo Joyce
I know, right?
I am so turned on right now.
Close your eyes and think of Pizza.
*Sets up a sign that says “Confidence is hot, change my mind.” *
You can practically see Joyce’s thought bubble in panel five: “Challenge accepted!” or something along those lines.
I’m not sure about Raidah in panel four. Is she sceptical because she knows everything is not fine; smug because from her point of view it is; or condescending because she considers Joyce insignificant?
Perhaps all of the above?
Given what she said about Joyce to her friends when we last saw Raidah, I’d say condescending, thinking Joyce has no chance because she’s in her own words, “a mere child.”
If she actually though Joyce had no chance, she wouldn’t have raced down here as soon as she heard. She knows Joyce is a threat, but thinks she can handle it.
“Challenge accepted.”
Just because someone thinks that the other person has no chance doesn’t mean that they can’t start second-guessing themselves and feeling threatened or insecure.
Overlaps a bit with condescending, but I think she’s more bemused that Joyce thinks she can seduce Jacob away. “Oh, this is cute, give me your best shot” type thing.
Raidah, Panel 1: He’s mine, all mine!
Joyce, Panel 2: Hrmmm…
Joyce, Panel 3: Nope.
Raidah, Panel 4: I will take you DOWN, you two-bit hussy!
Joyce, Panel 5: Bring it, bongo!*
Dorothy, Panel 6: Are you two gonna throw down? Cuz it looks like you’re gonna throw down…
Jacob, Panel 7: Sure hope the pi’ gets here, soon…
*squints at panel 7*
…. nope, Jacob only goes for one topping at a time.
Kind of like a sequential monogamist.
Damn, Joyce. You look good when confident.
I can see what Walky saw in you last timeline, and Becky this one.
I know, right?
While the looks between Raidah and Joyce are, in and of themselves, kinda sexy, I definitely feel that’s just a byproduct of what are “the gauntlet is thrown/challenge accepted” looks.
An “I know that you know that I know” look.
I’m not sure what’s up with the faces Raidah and Joyce are giving each other here.
Raidah is sniffing out Joyce’s plan, Joyce all but confirmed it, and also basically said she was gonna win.
turning and turning in the widening gyre
the falcon cannot hear the falconer
things fall apart, dorothy cannot bolt
mere anarchy is loosed upon galasso’s pizza (and subs)
The dissenter cannot stand.
It is on.
On like donkey kong.
Is donkey kong what the cool kids are calling it now?
I feel like this is going to end with Jacob pissed at *everyone*, though, because once it inevitably all comes out, it’s also going to come out that everybody else was perfectly aware of what was going on and elected not to enlighten him, including *Joe* of all people. (And say what you will about Raidah’s relative behavior, she’s also perfectly aware of what Joyce is actually after and is opting to play games with Joyce instead of trying to have a calm talk with Jacob about it, which is fine grounds for *Jacob* to be… probably less upset with her than with everyone else, but still upset.)
I just think once it all comes out he’s going to feel like he’s been played for a fool.
…I think Raidah at least has a decent reason for not telling Jacob. Jacob mentioned how he has a pattern of having crazy-jealous ex’s, and Raidah doesn’t want to be that.
Plus, going “I think Joyce wants to seduce you away from me” is likely to be met by laughter by………… anyone that knows Joyce. Better to let Joyce try and, if Jacob does cheat on her? In Raidah’s words, fuck him, she deserves better than him.
Still, definitely seems like Raidah is, at the very least, bemused by Joyce’s actions here…
Except that’s clearly not Raidah’s attitude, despite saying it to Jacob.
As shown by her rushing down her and by conversation with her cronies about Joyce being or not being a threat.
She’s clearly not willing to let things play out as they will and then write Jacob off if necessary.
That might be met with laughter by Jacob, but others who know Joyce take it seriously – it was Sarah’s plan to start with and Joe made it clear he was worried about it too.
…Yeah. At this point, I kind of hope so.
Ah well. This means my other ship (Joyce/Joe) is back on the table!
I’m not sure why he would be mad at Raidah it’s hardly your girlfriend’s job to police your fidelity.
Because she was all like “Oh I trust you with Joyce, no problems, I’m not the jealous type”, while actually not trusting him with Joyce, being jealous and very likely planning something nasty to ward her off. She is trying to police his fidelity, in your words. Without telling him.
She did trust him with Joyce until it became clear Joyce had a crush. It’s not paranoia to think someone is trying to get with your boyfriend if they really are trying to get with your boyfriend.
That said, the best way to handle that would be to point out to Jacob ‘Hey, your friend has a crush on you’ so she’s still not being upfront about this either.
Maybe. OTOH, it’s not like she’s said anything about revoking that trust. I don’t think she’s been honest about it from the start.
The whole “if you cheat then to hell with you” bit in that scene, doesn’t really fit with her actions and attitudes since, except as a pose for Jacob.
I don’t think she’s paranoid, but I do think she’s not playing it straight with her boyfriend.
If I were Dorothy, I think I’d abruptly remember I had a term paper due in an hour and RUN.
Also, I was a little more okay with the current storyline when I thought Joyce was just subconsciously chasing that tingling bubbly sensation she gets when she hangs out with Jacob. This nonverbal exchange between Joyce and Raidah feels really. . .intentional.
It’s been intentional on Joyce’s part ever since Sarah tried to apologize to her for using her to get at Raidah, only for Joyce to respond that no apology was necessary (followed closely by Joyce privately making a face very similar to today’s).
Likely since Joe unintentionally convinced her she had a chance, but that scene made it clear.
If I were Dorothy, I wouldn’t leave my best friend in a situation like this, but I’d take her to the bathroom to clear up the situation
Narrator: BUT EVERYTHING WAS NOT FINE
Though the popcorn was excellent.
So we know Joyce actually has a pretty good sense of fashion, it just happens to normally heavily rely on sweatervests.
What’s the bet that Joyce has taken note of Raidah’s similar fashion choices and is going to use that at some point in the conversation?
This is a side of Joyce we haven’t seen before.
I… both like it and don’t?
I’m with you. This is the first time we’ve seen Joyce behave in a manner that smacks (albeit mildly) of self-interest and conflict instead of her usual Goody Two-Shoes style.
On the one hand, it’s about time Joyce started showing some agency on her own behalf. On the other, I worry she might be moving into waters that are too deep for her.
? Joyce has done plenty of things that are out of the ‘goody two shoes’ wheelhouse. She does plenty of (admittedly low end) selfish stuff. Just look at her history of invading boundaries.
That’s not *good*, but it’s very much in the “goody two-shoes” Nice Christian Girl wheelhouse. Joyce kind of bounces between nice and “Nice”, this is the first thing here that isn’t either. If that makes sense.
Let’s see how it plays out.
I need to learn how to meme. I’m seeing panels 3-6 as head shots from the final duel in “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly,” with panel 3 as Tuco, panels 4 and 6 as Blondie, panel 5 as Angel Eyes. Or maybe reversed for 4-6, who knows.
No idea what to do with panels 6 and 7.
“When you have to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk.”
I am seeing Rocky Horror. Brad, Janet, Rocky, Ugh.
I don’t believe I’ve seen that look from Joyce before.
I have. But it was a very long time ago, and technically only “kind of” Joyce.
Out of Universe Anti-Joyce doesn’t count.
When she got on the elevator, end of last chapter.
Yep, link: http://www.dumbingofage.com/2018/comic/book-8/03-faz-is-great/sniping/
For good reasons.
Joyce arrived to college dead set on finding herself a man… but with an childish idea of what it meant, and with a complete lack of understanding of how to pull it off.
Things… happened to her. The mutually disastrous date with Joe. The assault at the party. Becky coming out to her and onto her. Her… it’s complicated-feelings towards Dorothy and Walky and now latest, her stupid matchmaking-scheme between Jacob and Sarah turning into a betrayal-soaked petty revenge-scheme between Sarah and Raidah.
And she came out on top of all that. She changed. She learnt, and now she is ready to fulfill her dream from the beginning of the comic as the much more competent, mature and – frankly – scary – person she has become.
Pity that her dream still involves “defeating” another woman to gain her “price”. Plenty of toxic relationship norms have NOT changed.
But still, apart from inviting Becky, decking Toedad and leaving church with Becky and her father – this is perhaps the strongest milestone of character growth for Joyce. She is no longer what she was in the beginning of the comic. She is something someone like Raidah really should look out for.
Or to put it much more simply:
“She’s a freshmen CHILD,” says Raidah
“Oh yeah?” says Joyce in panel 3
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2017/comic/book-8/01-face-the-strange/fool/
I find it weird that you’re painting this behavior as exemplifying any kind of character growth. Joyce is being nasty, manipulative, dishonest and unfair to not only Raidah but Jacob here. This is bad behavior and she doesn’t deserve to be rewarded or applauded for it.
Growth doesn’t necessarily mean bad -> good. It can mean simple -> complicated.
What not someone else said (what a weird line).
I don’t endorse it. I don’t applaud it…. OK, fine. I kinda applaud it. I’m biased in her favor, that’s true.
But it IS Joyce having achieved her goal from the beginning of the comic, by reaching outside of her limitations.
I don’t endorse Raidah’s behavior either (in the strip I linked she is possessive, manipulative and a high-school-Billie-level Alpha Bongo. And Joyce, in this strip, is a worthy challenger to her. She has become good at playing a bad game. She is not yet wise enough not to play.
I’m also rooting for Joyce, but at this point I am certain things will go horribly wrong before they can go right. Jacob will not appreciate the deception. He will reject Joyce and she’ll be devastated. I think he will also figure out Raidah isn’t really a good person either and he’ll eventually break up with her too. I think Jacob may swear off relationships for a while. He may guilt trip himself for leading Joyce on or letting himself be tempted.
But things cannot go badly forever. I imagine after a while Jacob and Joyce will become friends again, and maybe even date.
Great analysis, Bagge ; D ! (And not someone else, you’re super right about growth and thank you for saying it.) Helped me finally figure out what exactly I do and don’t like about this whole sequence of events.
To me, Joyce has struggled with self-confidence since early in the comic. She’s used to having irrefutable rules handed to her. As long as she was following the rules, as long as she knew she was 100% in the moral right, she could do nearly anything, so it’s hard to see that low confidence. But her values have been getting challenged the entire comic, leaving her struggling as she realizes the world isn’t black and white and that she might have to take actions while knowing that not everyone will agree with them.
It’s taken her a very long time, but Joyce is finally learning to have confidence and justify her actions for herself. Which is incredible for someone who started off believing that such self-justification is one of the greatest sins of all. It’s actually an extremely important skill, in moderation.
It’s just that this is Joyce, and she’s taking it entirely too far in the opposite direction. And that could become terrifying if she gets much worse about it. But I’m confident Joyce’ll turn it around. It’s just a question of how long it takes! Two steps forward, ??? steps back!
Don’t forget she also dated Ethan with intent to “fix” him.
Ah, yes. Thanks. She has had some eventful weeks, our Joyce.
The pizza is a metaphor.
The pizza is a lie! (But not the subs.)
Jacob really wants some tasty pizza
War and Pizza (and Subs).
+1
Joyce is looking like Korra in panel 5.
They are not subtle about their secret super hot lesbian romance.
Like, at all.
The looks on Raidah and Joyce’s faces pretty much says “Oh Shit.”
More like “Oh this shit is on.”
No. No. The look on Raidah and Joyce’s face say Game On. The look on Dorothy’s face says Oh shit. The look on Jacob’s face says I’m going to enjoy this. Of course he’s thinking about the pizza. Maybe.
Definitely the pizza. I think that Willis has established definitively that Jacob is totally unaware of and unable to perceive the Joyce-Raidah rivalry dynamic.
The alt-text is making me thing of “Run, Lola, Run.” I’m guessing that in the next 20 (in-universe) minutes the choices Dorothy makes, and the random events that she encounters, will have crucial impacts on the lives of her and those around her.
That’s a “rwrowr” face on Joyce. Damn.
Woah, I, uh… just intensely shipped JoycexRaidah for a few panels there.
N-no idea what caused that, haha…
……..man, people just keep throwing timber and gasoline on that pyre, I really hope someone doesn’t light a spark or anything.
Joyce.
JOYCE!
I know, intellectually, that those dark lines are the top of Joyce’s eyes, but I keep seeing a third eyebrow situation going on there.
Main event match.
Willis, stuff like this page is why you got the result you did on that survey about “why do you like Joyce?”, not that it’s a bad thing; the girl needs to be
more self-centered than she is.
?
What survey is this?
seeing that face on joyce looks…………..wrong
like she has the dreamworks face, dave
Oh, ouch. This is ugly. It’s even uglier because Jacob is totally unaware of the stare-down Raidah and Joyce are clearly enjoying here! If I were Dorothy, I’d already be out of the door. Some things you just don’t want to get into the middle of!
I should be studying
I should be studying
I should be studying
I should be studying
…DANGIT, I KNEW I SHOULD BE STUDYING!!!
You say that like she’s not reading the ebook versions of her textbooks online.
I can’t unsee the row of 5 identical collar bones.
Daaaaang. Lil’ sis got game
Raidah: “Joyce, I know you can hear my thoughts. If you touch Jacob, I am gonna fuck you up.”
Joyce: “Raidah, I know you can hear my thoughts… woah, what is this satanic magic?!”
Dorothy: “SOS SOS SOS This is a ship war!”
Jacob: “Maybe I should have ordered a meat lovers pizza. Should I ask for bacon? Is it too much for my diet?”
“This Jake ain’t big enough fer the two of us.”
I see someone else recognized this. I posted the duel below.
The real question is whether we can somehow work in a reference to Big Enough.
This Joyce face [panel 3 and 5] is not a face you see often, and I like it. So obviously, this will end horribly.
“Okay, we’ve got one small pepperoni, one individual cheese, one individual “brain food special” with anchovies and pickles, and one extra-large double-hijinks with all the hijinks then picked off and served on the side.”
Kill Bill siren in the background…. delicious.
Oh that Jacob, he is sitting in the middle of a nuclear test ground and doesn’t realize a thing…
It’s cute in a way. I wonder if he’s one of those guys who literally can’t imagine why two girls would fight over him?
completely not. Remember when he complained about being objectified?
I’ve seriously lost a LOT of respect for Joyce once we saw her motives quite consciously shift from wanting to talk up Sarah and hope for the best to actively scheming to break up Jacob’s relationship for herself, and today just furthers that.
I used to ship them. I don’t any more. Imo her behaviour damages any chance of their relationship working and I think she deserves that.
That Joyce in panel 5 strips the reader of any illusion that she’s acting out of innocent naivete. She’s clearly saying to Raidah: “I know that you know what I’m doing and I don’t care that you know. Even though you know, I’m still doing this and I’m still going to win so get used to that idea.”
As I’ve said in a previous post: This is going to get very, very ugly.
And the one who will suffer the worst will be Jacob. That poor sweet man…
Plot twist: Jacob dumps Raidah, tells Joyce to take a hike, and starts dating a series of pizzas instead.
Seriously, that pizza slice is the best romantic prospect for a straight dude in today’s strip.
This is one of the most uncomfortable strips you have ever drawn.
But it also looks like Joyce has “Doo me” in the one spot.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=i+am+uncomfortable&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=e5UlBHXZ46vJ4M%253A%252Cy_ZDX1240vAG4M%252C_&usg=__bLM-hMQqoq92TLqHca3HCh62LvM%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis7435hY_cAhWyKH0KHV9nBAIQ9QEIKzAA#imgrc=e5UlBHXZ46vJ4M:
Yeah this is going to be an uncomfortable and painful lesson of “It turns out that your ideas of twoo wuv don’t justify any and all behavior” which hey I guess also highlighted in the previous strip.
Honestly, I don’t think this is a case of her trying to get her MRS., like we her motive being in the beginning. This isn’t a true love conquers all thing. I honestly see this as her seeing someone she has interest in, and being confident enough to go after them (Thanks Joe). I think Joyce is less naive than people credit her for now. I think Radiah is bit less innocent in all this too. We already know from previous strips that she thinks she’s got Jacob wrapped around her finger, since she already told her friends she knows the best way to work him is to compare him to his brother and remind him how much he needs to make his family proud (Which is pretty damn weird for a relationship as short as theirs, considering they probably didn’t know each other that well before they started dating). Her intent on grooming Jacob like this is more manipulative to me than Joyce flirting.
Regardless about how I feel about Jacob and Raidah’s relationship, As long as they don’t physically cheat, I see no problem. If Jacob doesn’t see Joyce like that, he won’t act upon it. I doubt Joyce would ask him out herself. If he does like her and decides he likes her more than Radiah, I doubt they’d do anything before he breaks up with her.
I’ve never been a fan of the idea of someone running into a wedding at the last moment to get their love back, but I honestly have no problem with what Joyce is doing as long as her main goal isn’t to actively harm Radiah ( I know people will fight me on this, but Radiah getting hurt as a byproduct of Joyce going after Jacob, rather than the intent, is the thin gray line that I see). Not saying Radiah wouldn’t be right to be p*ssed. She 100% Should be. Just saying I don’t see Joyce as being in the 100% moral wrong for going after Jacob.
But yeah, even if Joyce and Jacob do get together, there’s no way Radiah is gonna accept that lying down. Joyce is gonna feel the screws no matter how this goes down. Radiah’s a Sophomore, right? 2.5 years is a long time to be spending on a campus (Granted, a relatively large campus) with someone who definitely hates your guts and knows exactly where you live and what your major is. Ask Sarah.
I mean, sure, Joyce isn’t intending to hurt Raidah, but by this point I think she’s aware that by breaking them up she WILL end up hurting Raidah, yet she still decides to go through with it, and in my book that’s a pretty shitty thing to do.
You know, compared to the really shitty things going on out there, a little tug of desire over a guy in a one month relationship doesn’t really make a blip on the radar.
People who want different things than you do are unintentionally hurt by it all the time. It’s unavoidable. Because not getting what you want hurts.
That’s life. There are times when you need to decide if you are going to hurt yourself or someone else, i.e. you are not getting what you want or they are not getting what you want.
In our first world society, most of that does not concern anything any of you actually requires to live.
I, personally, do not trust people who constantly hurt themselves.
Yes, becoming an adult is all about finding out who you want to be and which kinds of acts lead in the direction you want to go and which don’t. Where you think you hurt yourself more by going for something you want because you betray trust others have in you, or maybe a “greater good” you aim for, or where you think you betray yourself if you don’t. Everyone has to find their own answers.
Acting with the intention of hurting someone is a different story.
Acting without concern for how your actions hurt people isn’t actually all that much better. Hurting someone because you just couldn’t give a damn about their feelings is still a really shitty thing to do. Also “worse things happen therefore this bad thing is comparatively fine” is a truly garbage argument. Just because the petty cruelties aren’t grand atrocities doesn’t mean they don’t still matter and aren’t still wrong.
I also don’t know why women in the US are all that concerned about having their reproductive rights taken away and being paid less than their male counterparts, when there are women who have to live in literal war zones with actual zones.
See, I can use “whataboutism” too.
Now excuse me while I go bleach the fingers I used to type that first paragraph.
I case this was a response to me, it seems you didn’t get my point.
I’ve been constantly wondering why everybody makes such a fuss about Joyce wanting Jacob and the fact that, in case Joyce gets what she wants, Raidah will be hurt. Or at least her pride will be. So what? Though being dumped for someone else hurts, yes, so does not being loved back when you love. Both are things that happen in life, one or both of them to nearly everyone. It’s part of the human condition.
Being underpayed, threatened or harassed as a women is just part of capitalism and patriarchy, both hopefully soon gone phases of organization larger societies. They are part and parcel of power structures to exploit.
Not at all the same thing as the human desire to love and be loved.
As long as no one cheats, lies, backbites, gaslights, or does any other act that in and of itself is an act to hurt someone else let them find their ways through that without policing them.
You’re leaving out an important part of this, which is that Joyce went in to break them up BEFORE she was attracted to Jacob.
I see that she had been acting to help Sarah. Again, to Joyce, any detrimental effects to Raidah are nothing she thinks about. Raidah definitely wasn’t her fokus. This may have changed with this scene, now Raidah has pissed her off.
Also, even if her initial idea was “let’s break them up” (which again, it wasn’t, it was get Sarah the nice guy), this has changed in the meantime.
Which is rather normal behavior. The people who hang on to their ideas to get even are dangerous but as we saw, both Sarah and Joyce have to much of a life to keep being stuck there.
Though Joyce might start her own “get even with Raidah” program this minute. We’ll see how long she is busy with that.
Tbh like half of my rooting for Joyce here is for the explicit purpose of seeing raidah get hurt
I find the reflexive hating of Raidah for honestly very bad reasons and basically just because a protagonist-proximal character hates her to be… not surprising, but creepy and depressing.
Or it’s people transferring hate from some other iteration of the character in the Walkyverse, which, idk, I’ve only read DoA, but I think the work should be read on its own and not based on the assumption that character traits transpose at a 1=1 basis.
Dude she literally told Sarah to die in her first appearance. We have some very solid reasons for hating her
Love the hovertext.
Run Dorothy, RUUUUUUN!
No… If she leaves now,
doused with chemicals, then struck by lightning which will inevitably undo Monkey-Masterpoint. This change in the timeline results in the It’s Walky Timeline re-asserting itself.
And then… Soggies Will Rule.
Joyces main problem seems to be an almost arrogant and naiv belief that she knows best Sarah tried to warn Joyce about Joe and was ignored which led to Joe being physically assaulted, Joyce thought she knew best for helping Ethan back into the closet and that didn’t have a happy outcome either even after bragging to Sarah she had the dating down pat
Joyce gave Joe a (much needed) lecture on treating women as human yet here shes basically doing the same thing to Jacob. She knows Jacobs with Raidah but shes decided that its ok to attempt to break up Jacob and Raidah because, she, Joyce is the more deserving of him irregardless of what Jacob may think.
Again Joyce thinks shes got all worked out but its all going to come crashing down on her (again),which is probably what she needs to have happen to get it through her skull
She’ll be doing well if Jacob wants to have anything to do with her once he learns about how she was trying to manipulate him
That’s the main problem with fundamentalists in general: their rabid belief that they can impose their determination of whats best for people onto them with zero regard for what said people actually want.
You could argue one behaviour of Joyce is similar to behaviours and beliefs of mentioned group, and originated from it.
But imo, this is the first conciously shitty thing Joyce is doing, and she has to know it is, different to how she could say messed up stuff and think it was perfectly normal and fine (how many others then pointed out to her). This is concious. And I’m curious to see how it ends.
That’s not just a problem with Fundamentalists.
All of this. But that said…
I’ve been giving Joyce a lot of shit for this plot arc… but I will grant her this: When she realizes she’s being a bad person, she immediately course corrects. She knows she should be a good person, she wants to be a good person, but her fucked up upbringing makes it hard for her to discern what’s good and what’s fucked up.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish she didn’t need quite so many buckets of cold water thrown in her face, but I do appreciate that she’s trying to be better. Far too many are quite comfortable being vile dick-weasels.
FWIW, up until now (and possibly continuing, because nothing has actually happened l) Joyce’s method of ‘trying to break up Jacob and Raidah’ is… being friendly and openly sharing Jacob’s interest in fitness and religion. She has not badmouthed Raidah, nor has she talked herself up. She has not arranged wacky hijinks to implicate Raidah in bad things.
Honestly from the way comments are reacting, you’d think Joyce had ordered hits on Raidah or drugged Jacob’s food. Joyce is under no obligation to cut a boy she likes out of her life completely because he happens to be involved with a different girl.
Her intentions and feelings are irrelevant as long as her actions – which, again, have been ‘being a friend who shares Jacob’s interests’ – remain non-pressing.
I think intentions matter.
She doesn’t have to cut him out of her life completely, but she is intending to break him and Raidah up and win him for herself, even if her methods aren’t underhanded.
I’ve been friends with girls I had crushes on that were dating other people. I didn’t have to cut them out of my life, but I also restrained my self from flirting with them or otherwise trying to get their romantic interest. It’s not hard to do and it’s very much not what Joyce is doing.
The Joyce,
The Dorothy,
and
The Raidah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6tR78d0cmA
…aand we’ve got today’s winner of the Internet, ladies and gentlemen.
I don’t wanna be THAT guy, but Raidah is kinda cute
Is that a very very very small eye tic in panel two?
God I hope this all backfires horribly onto Joyce.
yes apparently the only way she can learn is through severe traumatic shock
So, no one’s hacked the muzak?
(Looks left. Looks right.)
(Plays “Run, Baby, Run” by Sheryl Crow. Followed by “Run Baby Run” by Garbage.)
This, after just telling the bartender what is moral to do and what is not?
I see Joyce likes her pizza with hypocrisy.
Joyce has strict but horrible morals.
And boy oh boy is it important to note that someone can be incredible moral, and still be a horrible person. Because boy oh boy, some moral guidelines are just NASTY. (Leave one never make the mistake of thinking moral=good, eh?)
Reminds me of a bible passage, fitting since Joyce is a believer.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
I’d say, regarding Joyce, that she’s more or less the other way around. She’s a really nice person whos moral foundation is becoming shaky, due to various reasons. I’d say some introspection could be in order.
Then again, I’m just some dude commenting about a fictional character that I like
Joyce’s morals are pretty consistent here with what she said at the bar actually- there are these various moral principles, but all of them can be discarded if it’s in the name of “true love.” So she can rationalize this shitty behavior to herself because y’know. Totes true love. And not just a puppy crush on someone she barely knows that’s mostly physical.
By the way, did Raidah always dress like this? In that case, Jacob got a type, huh?
Nope! Raidah has never dressed this way before at all! She apparently made these style choices at some point after her declaration that Joyce was no threat to her at all. For reasons.
A thing I can’t flipping stand about Raidah is that whole “she’s a freshman child” thing. Raidah is only one year older than our main cast. She’s not exactly a worldly, experienced adult.
To be entirely fair, we don’t know exactly how old Raidah is – after all, Dorothy is nineteen (and has been since the beginning of the comic), but still only a freshman; similar for Dina, whose nineteenth birthday has been mentioned a few times to be coming up soon. Raidah could easily be twenty, twenty-one, something like that.
It’s not uncommon in college. And not entirely inaccurate. Sure it’s only a year, but for many there’s a lot of growing up in that first year away from home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v0KCoPMTdU
this song is about her
Welp, I officially think there’s a hot image of Joyce. That smirk panel does things to me.
Yeah, I have to concur. She looks delectable in panel 5. XD
Also, I’m totally imagining the Kill Bill theme playing in the background for this strip.
The spectrum of Joyce faces here is incredible, and I can’t wait to see where it goes tomorrow.
Strap yourselves in people-it’s the 10th Crusade.
Dear inner weeb, please stop telling me to call her “Rider”. Thank you.
You can see Dorothy panic as she starts to realize Joyce is a bongo
over at ItsWalky.com two ladies are just now fighting over a guy, the same might happen soon here at Dumbing of Age. I’m both worried and excited.
Am i the only one who checked the tags for “NegaJoyce” or
“antiJoyce”
Joyce vs the Allegedly Evil Ex, for sure.
Joyce Brown VS. A very small portion of the world.
Joyce Brown VS. A very small portion of the world
*theme from “The Good, The Bad and The Ugly” plays*
IT. IS. ON.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFa1-kciCb4
I think this is the authors take on Joyce being overly influenced by bad rom coms. In that Joyce sees herself as “the good girl” who deserves the boyfriend (Jacob) and she’ll win because its obvious that she and he should be together and once Raidah sees this she’ll just depart never to be seen again
Jacob is oblivious to all this because hes man and as such he doesn’t know whats happening and it wouldn’t matter anyway because “the good girl” just knows whats best for him
Raidah is of course undeserving of Jacobs affections and as soon as he realises just how wonderful Joyce is and how mean and spiteful Raidah is he’ll fall madly in love with Joyce and they’ll live happily ever after
Which is how I think Joyce is (subconsciously) justifying her actions here, its also interesting to note that shes objectifying Jacob and not even considering his wants or desires which is what she gave Joe a talking to about
Joyce does have all the tools needed to accomplish this physically, after all shes attractive with a nice body, but shes nowhere near emotionally ready to cope with the probable fallout of all this blowing up in her face
Of course I’ve also been wrong in the past before
That Joyce panel made me feel very uncomfortable. And not good uncomfortable.
That’s the most sarcastic face I’ve ever seen joyce make.
And then they all fucked!
Don’t give me that look, somebody had to make that joke. This whole scene practically begs for it.
Well HELLO new Gravitar! That is the BEST face I’ve ever seen her make!
And then Joyce and Raidah rode off into the sunset
Quite possibly the best DoA comic so far.
No way. It barely ranks on the damn-you-Willis scale.
Nope. I just plain don’t like Joyce’s plan or behavior in this storyline.
That’s not to say I dislike the storyline. From a narrative perspective it’s great. But from a character perspective, Joyce is acting inappropriately and immorally.
But let’s step back a second. Do I really think that “Hey, this guy is dating someone in his sophomore year in college, therefore he is off-limits forever”? No. You don’t get married after one date. Early in the dating process, people are still evaluating other people and trying to find the best match, and just because someone has been dating for a few months doesn’t mean they (and the other person) couldn’t be happier with someone else.
But that decision should be made by the people *in* the relationship, not by people outside of it. It’s one thing for Joyce to hang out with Jacob because she likes his company, and another thing for her to specifically try to seduce him. It’s dishonest, and it is also very likely to blow up in her face (though she may deserve that at this point.)
When I started reading It’s Walky, Joyce and Walky and everybody were in their 20s and I was 15.
Now I’m 30 years old and when I go to say “So much sexy lady clavicle” it occurs to me that I mean “so much teenage girl clavicle” and I… yikes
AMAZING. I LOVE IT.
Joyce’s face in the 5th panel is too awesome:
“oooh, I’m gonna break SO many commandments with you!”
talk about consistent characterization: http://www.itswalky.com/comic/lovestruck-nonsense/