This comic is about a robot powered by bees, but it's also about the kind of people who think filling a robot with bees is a good idea, and why they're wrong.
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
Blindsprings
Kadi Fedoruk
Tamaura, wrested into a world 300 years in the future, must find a way to save the magic fading from her country.
Paint the Town Red
Windy, Winter Jay Kiakas
Winona runs a werewolf shelter with partner in crime, Odile in the Gothic city of Merlot. One day they take in an injured vampire, and soon unravels many of the dark secrets of Merlot.
Fantomestein
Beka Duke
Desperate for companionship, Frankenstein's Monster pretends to be the Opera Ghost. A grave mistake.
Namesake
Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
Cyanide & Happiness
Explosm
Satire, dark humor and surreal humor.
Mac Hall
Matt Boyd
The legendary early-aughts webcomic that inspired a wave of webcomic creators.
Countdown to Countdown
Velinxi
Iris Black is a self-proclaimed inventor with the curious ability to bring his drawings to life, and yearns to find a space where he can use his powers freely.
Slightly Damned
Chu
Rhea Snaketail returns from the dead, befriending a Demon who falls in love with an Angel. The afterlife ain't what it used to be!
The Otherknown
Lorian Merriman
Chandra is a 12-year-old accidental time traveler with a reluctant new dad, who happens to be a member of a feared galactic crime syndicate.
2 Slices
RJ Morel
After a case of mistaken identity, will awkward Daisuke find help from excitable Mamo, or will his love life be thrown completely off track?
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OK, am I the only one around here who gets REALLY pissed off when seeing stuff on YouTube and other platforms going stuff like “mildy artistic” like that and you know what they ACTUALLY mean by that?!?!?!
In an episode of South Park, Cartman’s mom takes a vaccine shot. Then Cartman is told his mom is “artistic” as a parody of vaccines causing autism. You need to see more of the episode for context.
“mildly artistic” is a variant on that, just as usual the internet and the media taking a word and running with it, and all the consequences. From cash grabbing YouTubers who want their thumbnail to get clicks, to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.
My old friend/roommate once introduced himself as “high functioning autistic.” I asked him what that meant, and he answered: “High functioning is what parents call their own children. Low functioning is what parents call other people’s children.”
I don’t know those specific cultural references, so I could be wrong. But I don’t think there’s any harm in calling oneself “mildly” anything. Folks can choose the labels they want to call themselves.
…Maybe I’m reading it wrong?
High functioning is what they call you if they want an excuse to invalidate your opinion or deny accommodation on the grounds they think you’re not disabled enough to count.
Low functioning is what they call you if they want to treat you like a thing and ignore what you think about it on the grounds you’re too disabled to count.
Claiming to have a medical condition you don’t is harmful to the people who do have it because it can create a perception that it’s not a “real” thing, making it harder for people who do have the condition to get appropriate support and recognition.
Another incredibly long running webcomic where I’ve read every comic twice, to the point where I frequently think “wasn’t there an SMBC about this?” and yeah, usually there was.
See, see, this is EXACTLY why i worked so fucking hard to distance myself from the “autism” label, all the stereotypes all these ASSUMPTIONS, all the PITY, all the TOXICITY.
It was like tearing my fucking arm off. At the moment I’m working on a way I can describe myself, a way to untangle myself and my personality, the way I am, while still acknowledging my neurodivergence and things I have to do in a way that just avoids the label and all this BAGGAGE and PAIN and HURT, it feels like I’m hanging above a fucking emotional PRECIPICE,
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
sorry about that outburst, really sorry if I caused any of you any stress
but I just really needed that cathartic release
Deathjavu, thank you for your attempt to assure me I am not alone, regardless of how effective it is.
It’s just that, what if I do identify as “autistic”?
I know it might be healthy for me to do that HERE, but like…..
What about out there in the world out there where I CAN’T, the world where the “autism” label is like a giant “abuse me” sign, the world that I’ll HAVE to interact with and get my name out there for all the stuff I want to do in life?
You are not alone. I know that sounds incredibly glib (and possibly a bit crass), for which I apologise; i am trying to affirm, not patronise. But look where you are: the people regularly contributing to this chat have done their best to turn it into a very safe space. I like hanging out here for that reason. I am neurotypical, but I am a parent to a neurodivergent child and I work with neurodivergent children, so I am as close as a neurotypical person can be to understanding you; I am also LGBTQ+, so I definitely understand ‘different’ and ‘isolated’. But if we support each other, then the ‘typical’ world can go f##k itself.
Even now, with accepting communities like this to help us, outside in the rest of the world, I learned the hard way that it’s REALLY good advice not to tie yourself to the “autism” image.
Between employers, “normies” out there, people who you have to interact with to do what you want in life, they don’t think twice when they hear you say “I am autistic”. If they’ve seen ONE “autistic” like that, they think ALL are like that.
Not out of malice or deliberate bigotry every time, but like, because HUMANS and their monkey ass brains don’t really strive towards TRUTH as much as they strive towards internal CONSISTENCY of their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, including those involving ANY group they’ve come to believe about them, hence unconscious biases, of which PITY and TOXIC POSITIVITY and INITIALIZATION of us neurodivergents is especially insidious.
It’s like… if I EVER want to be myself and content and happy with who I am and at the same time rationally and successfully navigate an unjust and indifferent world with a broken, unstable system….
that I have to be like, two different people, walking in two different worlds: one where I can embrace being “autistic”, and one where I can’t
like I have to live two different lives, and bend and break my brain just to barely make things work out for me in an unjust, indifferent universe
Have you tried journaling? It’s a way to vent that definitely will not cause anyone stress, so that you can save less inflammatory communication for the comments.
I know you mentioned the possibility of causing people stress, so you must care about it, and maybe you haven’t considered keeping a journal yet. I’d give it a shot, could make you feel better in general, though of course it will not cure the wounds of society’s ableism.
I’ve tried journaling, didn’t really work, also couldn’t make a commitment because GUESS WHAT, that’s part of my divergence too.
You humans will often see that difficulty as part of the stripes you put into the “ADHD” category, correct?
But what if some don’t feel comfy with that label? What if they have trauma associated with that? What if they just feel like they’re MORE than that, and want their individuality, their uniqueness, to be noticed in spite of other HUMANS and their SMOL BRAINS mostly paying attention to a single acronym or word for people they were brought up to pity? What then?
If they don’t accept the label, they don’t get help or attention. If they do accept it, they’re stigmatized. It’s like you lose no matter what you do.
And this unfairness is by no means exclusive to neurodivergence,
Frankly I am sick and tired of you humans and your tendency to punish, torment and tease members of your own species for the random, uncontrollable circumstances of their birth.
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
I saw yesterday just how diverse “autism” can be, just how different you all can be, how it’s just common sense around here not to make assumptions about people with autism.
We take a person from here who uses the word “autism” to describe who they are. We see another person from reddit who uses it in “autism screech”. These two people might be using the same *English* word, but they might as well be speaking two different languages. One is the language of asserting equal freedoms, and one is the language that gives license to oppress others on account of the uncontrollable circumstances of birth. In one language, “autistics” are more or less the same, and in the other, they are allowed to be very much different.
A person from Santa Cruz, California, and another from Harrison, Arkansas, both use the word “freedom”. It’s the same word, but different languages, really. One is the language that seeks to liberate, and one is a language that seeks to oppress.
I can only hope you see the essential principle there, because i have not the spoons to expand upon it, really.
I like things to be fluid. It’s why I’m genderfluid, I get the best of all genders, and new genders that don’t even have names yet.
If “autism” around here can be fluid, if it can be a disability or a superpower or lots of other things depending on what I feel like on any day and people MUST automatically respect it, then here and ONLY here do I feel comphy calling myself “autistic”.
But even then, if I do accept being “autistic”, I have to face an awful reality that comes with it — that I was hurt in really AWFUL ways by others because of it, I’m a victim of systematic bigotry.
I had so much, my childhood, my pride, so many things taken because of it, things that I may never be able to replace.
It’s left me feeling so scarred, so nervous, so broken
My experiences are ones that matter, yes, but like, I just don’t want it to make me into someone all bitter and anti-fun, you know?
I find myself caught in a struggle, a struggle between who I WANT to be, and the kinds of things my trauma forces me to be. It’s like I have to combine my bubbliness and bitterness into one, and every time I try to bend and break my brain to make it work it inevitably results in a person with conflicting attributes.
I remember being told once regarding big reveals (specifically coming out of the closet, in that case) that the polite thing to do is to take your cue from the person making the reveal with regards to how dramatic the tone should be? So if they’re teary eyed and delivering big declarations you should respond in kind with big teary declarations of reassurance and support, and if they’re like “oh by the way I’m gay” without taking their eyes off Mario Kart you should be like “ok cool” and also keep your eyes on Mario Kart. I don’t know if that’s always the right call or always possible, but I can see the logic.
Right now there’s some dissonance for Joyce due to the fact that they aren’t meeting her on her level, I think? Joyce feels like her entire world got turned upside down and she has to reevaluate everything she thought she knew about who she is as a person. And Dorothy and Sarah are NOT REACTING WITH EQUIVALENT LEVELS OF SHOOK.
I think both Sarah and Dorothy are trying to be supportive, but missing the mark. Joyce doesn’t need to be told she’s always been herself, or that they could have guessed. She probably needs them to actually talk to her and help her process her feelings (not necessarily right in this moment, but saying ‘yeah we guessed that don’t worry about it’ isn’t enough), especially given how many/most of her friends aren’t acknowledging ways she HAS changed.
Very true. So many people associate autism with disability. With some reason — many people who have autism or other neurodevelopmental spectrum conditions *do* have disabilities that can sometimes make it more difficult to achieve their goals, without arranging for particular community support.
(I say that and it sounds completely hypocritical, because honestly, who among us could have done half the things we do with our lives without SOME kind of support in this world? It’s like that 2012 speech: “You didn’t build that!” We’re an interdependent species and everything we do affects others.)
But anyway, Joyce hears “autism” and thinks “disability”. And that’s not the way she wants to see herself. It’s not how she envisions her future.
Yeah Laura, I hate this. I can never identify as “autistic” out there because of the thing people would think of me, the assumptions they would make whether they intend to or not.
I don’t wanna go through all that effort fixing things in their thinking because let’s face facts – the way humans think in general, for SO MANY THINGS including neurodivergence, is just intrinsically flawed.
I’m afraid that the progress we can make in our society is very much chained down by processes that are just hardwired into Homo sapien brains.
And oh well. I guess a life form produced by 4.5 billion years worth of happy accidents can only do so much right.
Do you like dogs, NG? Their brains are delightfully unique. But no less brilliant than humans. Dogs are more brilliant, even, because they can sense and distinguish thousands of smells, read the full recent past of any location, with a single sniff. They can even diagnose COVID-19 before the best chemical tests can. They are tremendously talented. They are playful, creative, problem-solving, ingenious, affectionate, goofy, hyperactive, hyperfocused, distractible… every stripe of human brain/personality, you can find a dog who makes it huge and colorful.
Maybe take a break from this for a while. If you’re in a place where you can step outside and touch the ground or breathe in the air deeply with your nose, that helps. Or running your hands under a faucet.
Or what soothes you. Maybe a game or some music, or a coding project you’re working on. (I find Foucault’s georotational pendulum incredibly soothing, but that’s just me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71acFIh0g0)
You know how to care for yourself — I’m not able to play Mr. Fix-It and it’s often unhelpful when I try.
I hope your spiral can find its internal gyroscope soon. We all need to find our center of stable spin, sometimes.
So, yes, I understand exactly what you mean and appreciate that neither you or any one owes anyone else insight into your/their diagnosis/disability/neurotype.
It’s something I’ve been thinking about A LOT bc at uni I’m studying social work and find the way Autism is taught about is not good, and the mental health classes have actually disencouraged me…. My response has been to put on battle armour and go to war against the school, researching the experience of ND students and writing evidence-heavy essay on the subject to advocate for a neurodiversity affirming approach to be used by the school.
I believe that progress isn’t chained by the way we think (although I may be misinterpretting this part of your comment, wellerman, so apologies if so), but it is chained by our social systems (schools/unis/healthcare/govt/family). There’s tonnes of people in the disability movement fighting to make changes (in my country, this includes creating housing opportunities for young disabled people who have been put into aged care homes, more support in schools, NDIS etc). I draw hope from that*.
Also, Autism [can be] a disability. It is for me, but I use the perspective of the social model of disability. The world isn’t made with people like me in mind, and that is what is disabling. If the pharmacy is over-stimulating with bright, flashing lights and seventeen billion tvs going at the same time, then I am disabled because I cannot fill my scripts, or if I do I won’t be functional for three days while I recover. I wouldn’t be disabled if there was an option for me to access my medication without sending me into a three day long shutdown+ recovery time.
*there is so much more I want to say because I’m very passionate about the subject, hence inserting myself, but I started to tangent about how industrialisation contributed to disabling neurodivergency eg sleep-wake cycles and realised it was off topic
Oh, wow. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that!
People ask why autism diagnosis rates are rising — maybe because society is growing less hospitable for different ways of perceiving and learning and interacting with the world.
Maybe, but I’m not sure I buy it. It’s not like a lot of behavior didn’t get hostile responses in the past without having a medical diagnosis attached to it.
There’s a bunch of factors that contribute to rising rates of diagnosis:
– changes to the diagnostic criteria (the current diagnosis is Autistic Spectrum Disorder which covers many out dated diagnoses like Asperger’s)
– increased understanding and research into gender and (to a lesser extent) racial differences in how Autism is embodied leading to more women and non white people have more equitable access an accurate diagnosis
– increasing awareness via health campaigns, internet access and social media, so people are seeing more autistic individuals which leads them to recognise traits in themselves or in their children and are able to access info online
– environmental factors which lead to burnout (and support seeking) as well as things like air and water pollution which has some evidence as a contributing factor (although I’m suss on the link)
Then again the author of Ghost In The Shell used placing the brain in “Autistic Mode” as a problem solving method, several times during the series Stand Alone Complex. Apparently autism is seen as an asset in Japan when the manga was being written and kept for the anime.
The word “Autistic” basically just means “of itself”. In that anime, it’s just basically Airplane Mode with a more intelligent-sounding name. Nothing to do with the actual human condition.
I read their reactions less as “We already knew” and more as “Yeah, that tracks.”
And, honestly, I think “You’re still you, no matter what the doctors say” is exactly what Joyce – who tends to hyperfixate and overreact – needs to hear.
I’ve never lived this exact experience before so I admit that I may be speaking out of turn. However, in the face of information that I perceive as earth-shattering to my self-identity, my friends reacting to it completely in-character and not being weird about it in the slightest would be the most comforting thing in the world.
Sarah going “Yep, tracks” and Dorothy offering casual support and reassurance is exactly how they’d react to any old information, to the point where if they reacted differently I’d be questioning their motive.
Personally I feel Like most of us are undiagnosed for something, half of us don’t get diagnosed till adulthood and some of us probably go through our entire lives not being diagnosed.
Naaaaah, I doubt much of anybody has actually considered it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them had reactions like Sarah’s, where it makes so much sense once it’s come up that they’ll probably later wonder how they never realized it.
I can say with certainty that people don’t always know.
I went over 30 years not diagnosed and even after my psychiatrist and psychologist pinged me – I was only coded as autistic for almost 10 years because of bad laws in place for organ transplants.
I told my family, and people I knew and some said “ok now that you explained it, I can see that” but ROFL so many were SHOCKED.
It hasn’t affected my everyday life, but it has affected how my therapy is and how I interact with stimuli and people. I’m also more vocal about what is causing me to over stimulate. <<–that took a long time though.
It’s really frustrating that a diagnosis for ADHD is useful for practical things, like getting meds, but it can be expensive to get. What I’m saying is that if you can afford it, you should get a diagnosis.
Get your subsidized health insurance policies NOW, while they’re still subsidized! Subsidies are going away, so NOW is the time to get whatever health care you can, on a plan you can afford. My sis gets excellent private managed-care health insurance, with specialist and full mental health coverage, for $0 a month, through the state health exchange. “The truth is out there,” folks.
Man I sure would like if this site worked but I just tried making an account and
1. I have an account under my email I don’t recall making that I can’t access so that’s a fine kettle of fish
2. The profile I tried to make with my other email didn’t work because the website REFUSES, outright REFUSES to acknowledge my Zip code.
Guess the government wins. If I dies, I dies.
You can google if there’s a government-funded mental health support center near you. It’s different per state, but in Kansas and Missouri there are facilities that don’t cost money or just don’t ask for payment until you can afford it. And these are tragically pretty right-wing states. So there might be options near you.
It’s been great for my husband, who’s just been getting into sorting out his mental health.
Yes, several states have “regional centers” or vocational rehabilitation or behavioral health services that will offer free testing for the purpose of getting services.
Getting diagnosed for ADHD does NOT have to be expensive. It’s kinda up to your doctor how comfortable they are diagnosing it. My Primary Care doctor just gave me a little sheet to fill out, glanced at my answers, and said “congrats, you have ADHD, do you want to try Adderall first or Concerta first?” I know other people have had their doctor refer them to a bunch of specialists who then want to rule out every other option before they’ll say it’s ADHD. But sometimes it’s obvious and the general doctor knows enough about ADHD that they feel sure on their own.
Never even entered my mind until I was in my early thirties (Thanks to confirmed ADHD friends posting memes that were entirely too relatable). But it definitely put a whole bunch of my life into perspective. Got the initial assessment just before the pandemic broke out, so it took me a while to go get the actual confirmation. And I’m still out of commission due to chronic migraines, which means regulating ADHD medically is a low priority and would have conflicting meds. Super fun like that. But definitely useful in terms of self-management/
This definitely plays into her frustration with people still treating her as the same girl as she was before despite her having all these revelations and changes. I think she just wants to grow from her changes instead people saying “nah, you’re still exactly the same and will always be the weirdo Jesus homeschool kid to us”. That’s frustrating.
Unfortunately I think you might me right, I was hoping Joyce not freaking out as they expected would force Dorothy to admit she misjudged Joyce’s character growth but now I fear she will just continue to make new well meaning assumptions.
I don’t think either of them are trying to say anything of the sort, but I get that’s what she’s probably hearing, which is a different matter altogether. It’s also not really helped by her being cagey about some things in a way that blew up in her face, like Becky and Dorothy finding out Joyce was an atheist in the most unflattering way possible, walking in on her also being a complete asshole.
I guess, all of that being said, Joyce is probably still figuring out how much she’s changed and what she does and doesn’t want that to mean. If she can’t figure that out, she’s going to continually be disappointed with what others make of those changes.
I really agree, thank you for the comment. I’ll add my thoughts.
Joyce just had this big convo with Jennifer and I really don’t see this reaction being reassurance to Joyce. Like, when ppl come out to others as LGBTQ+ and those people are like “oh lol that tracks / i knew” it’s such a gut-punch, ime. To save their own ego at not knowing a thing, they act like it’s not a big deal to the person telling them in a manner that *clearly* suggests it’s a big deal.
Not saying Sarah and Dorothy are being unsupportive but it’s not exactly support-*ing* *Joyce* in her moment. I wonder if the platitude-y nature is why Dina slunk away.
Did she slink away? She was still there in yesterday’s final panel; today she might still be there behind the SimTower crowd. Everything but Dorothy, Joyce, and Sarah disappears in today’s beat panel.
I bet she’s going to confront Joyce about what she overheard in the not too distant future. Hopefully, before she asks Becky for advice on how to broach the subject (and inadvertently spills the beans).
Perhaps. It was not my most confident assertion, and she does “disappear” before Joyce is even really done talking, so I doubt what I said was actually the case. Still, her sudden absence in the background, even for normal reasons, feels unsettling to me, and likely prompted my misinterpretation. Thanks for weighing in.
You’re right, they should absolutely stop loving her and caring about her because of this new information.
Seriously, the hell? Yeah, they need to adjust the way that they ***think*** about her, for a multitude a reasons, but that ain’t what Dorothy said. Dorothy said ***feel***. They’re trying to reassure her that this new information doesn’t change her worth to them, that’s bloody all.
I get Joyce misunderstanding, she’s going through some shit here, but this is absolutely the right message to emphasize.
It’s also kind of a standard trope where a character receives a stunning revelation about themselves which was blindingly apparent to everyone else in his or her life.
I apologize if I’m overstepping btw, but I kinda wanted to ask Willis a question and I wanted to know if there was a way to get in contact. His twitter is , understandably, closed off to DMs and I can’t really find any links to an email or anything.
If it wouldn’t be too big of a deal, would it be at all possible for me to get in contact? I feel weird just asking in the comment section.
An off-the-wall suggestion: if you’ve Kickstarted anything, try posting a comment. I’m sure he has people managing those, but they might see it and decide to forward it.
You could wait for someone to say something awful/awesome enough that he responds to it here and then tag on a “can I ask you a question?” bellow. Actually can you just @ a commenter in this? @yotomoe or something but for Willis?
We’re random people who read his webcomic. Unless you know him in meatspace or from a small online writers group or something, that is the extent of our relationship with him.
Best chance is to ask in a public setting like these comment sections or on Twitter or Patreon or whatever. But if he’s closed off his DMs, that’s a pretty clear sign that he doesn’t want to be bothered by random people like us sending him DMs out of nowhere. I can’t speak for why Willis in particular would do that, but in my experience, you never know which of the random people on the internet might become a threat to you or your privacy or your time. Or maybe he’s high profile enough that if he spent the time to acknowledge and respond to every fan’s message, he’d have no time for the things he wants to do, like making comics.
And sure, you might know you’re a random fan who will be perfectly polite and safe. But he doesn’t know that, and if I were in his position I would not roll the dice on opening up DMs to one random fan. You might know your question would only take up a little bit of his time. But your question might be one of many just like it.
We read a webcomic that Willis writes. That’s all. He doesn’t know us any better than he knows some random person on the internet who’s never heard of him. If he’s closed off his DMs, that’s a pretty clear signal to not try to send him a private message. And if we try to contact him privately despite that clear signal, that’s rude at best and a little bit creepy.
The answers before me mostly seem to say “here’s a couple of things you can try to do to get around the lack of contact info”. My point of view is that it’s a little creepy, and at best only rude, to message someone privately if they’ve taken steps to avoid giving out their contact info. Willis has been online long enough, he knows how to have a “contact me” page on his website if he wants it. Even if you have a mutual friend with the person making themselves hard to contact, it’s the difference between “mutual friend, can you give me their contact info” and “mutual friend, I would like to discuss xyz with this person, here’s how they can contact me if they’re interested”.
So yes, if Willis has taken steps to make himself harder to contact, I think it’s overstepping for someone to circumvent those and send a private message. No one had already posted something along these lines, so I felt I had something to contribute to this conversation, so I posted it. I don’t think that’s overstepping.
Besides, Willis reads the comments sections at least some of the time, and someone moderates it and I assume that person is either Willis himself or Willis can contact them for technical info. If Willis disagrees with me, and is interested enough in Yotomoe’s question, he has the email address associated with the post and can make contact.
Just wanna follow this up by saying I sent an ask to his tumblr and he replied. Perhaps I overstepped but he was col about it and if I did he didn’t make me feel like it
Thank you for being so supportive of fan works like this, that means so much.
In fact, I’m working on a DOA video game myself, and if you have the time, could I ask you something about Galassos / Mama Bears on Twitter or something like that?
I’m glad Joyce is getting support from Dorothy and Sarah. That being said, is Joyce going to hide this from Becky? Or will Becky hear it from Dina and be upset Joyce didn’t tell her?
Joyce should now tell everyone but ask them not to tell Becky, just for symmetry. Then, at some point, there will be a simultaneous double-reveal where shocks will cancel each other and Joyce and Becky will be like my, all that secrecy was really stupid.
Does Joyce want to be looked at differently? I would have thought not…or maybe she wants her feelings validated by someone that isn’t her that this is a big deal. Well either way of course the others won’t look at her any differently as the Joyce they all know and love.
I think she want’s people to say, “Autistic? You? No, never! That doctor’s full of it!” She wants to believe that she “passes” better than she perhaps does.
I read Sarah’s comment not as “yeah, this new information matches my understanding of how Joyce works” but as “yeah, this new piece of drama is exactly what I expected life to throw at me.”
Is she worried about rejection, or does she actually want ppl to treat her /better/’nicer’ or so/ease up on her after all the “i’m an atheist now, god sucks and everyone else who believes is a dumbass/just in a cult” attitude? Even if she doesn’t handle it well hopefully she won’t be like “I’m autistic, I should get a pass” or so
Well… The last three or so comics have been stressful to read the comments for.
I was bingning Housepets! so I havn’t read anything since friday, so I got this all in a single burst.
Autism is a complicated topic, most of all because it is a spectrum. Honestly, Autism Diegnosis Criteria tends to be just a list of general ND traits, most of which can also be other things. This is why it’s complicated to bet a propper diegnosis, because people have different traits. It’s just like medical diegnosis, somone has a fever but that doesn’t make it obvious where it’s from.
I grew up not getting the propper diegnosis, and I got a lot. ADD, ADHD, finaly autism, and many others between that I don’t actualy remember or know. My mom didn’t settle on those because she knew they wern’t correct, and honestly that’s probebly the best thing she’s ever done for me, no mater how stressful it might have been.
I didn’t get the autism diegnosis until Highschool, because all of my symptoms could be explained by other ND things. Everything from Tantrums to Stimming.
Ooh let’s make it even worse. Could you imagine if internet people commented on every single moment of your life, except they only got to see it play out 6 seconds at a time, once every 24 hours? Imagine being aware of that.
I think binge reading most of the series has made me more forgiving of some of the characters’ actions and I’m very thankful for it.
How do I find time to read the hundreds of posts commenting on every few seconds so that I can use their analysis to figure out what’s going on and how to handle the crisis I’m going to be in 6 seconds from now?
For a healthy(?) exploration of mental/neurological/psychological diversity, I heartily recommend the new rebooted Mark Trail, by badasse STEM engineer Jules Rivera (http://julesrivera.com/)
Mark Trail’s a total animal nerd, still, true, but he’s also a veteran who lives with PTSD and auditory hallucinations. (He talks with animals and they talk back, sometimes during his business meetings and in front of clients. But only he can hear them.)
He’s also a freelancer in the gig economy trying (clumsily) to make it in this strange new world of social media and self-marketing, something many of us can relate to.
Plus, the series has got gender-nonbinary adventure nature photographer Kelly Welly, bisexual small-business eco-trepreneur Cherry Trail, and lots of other rad nerd ladies, so that’s awesome.
I don’t get the anxiety. Being diagnosed with a condition doesn’t give you the condition. It doesn’t change who you are, it just potentially gives you more options for coping with yourself.
Normally, yes, but we are talking about Joyce who had her world turned upside down several times recently. She really doesn’t want MORE stress coming from changes, especially considering how autistic people apparently don’t deal well with changes.
Perhaps you meant “logical” but “rational” just basically means understandable. And while sometimes people need help finding it there’s often an understandable cause for their anxiety. I was just looking for a frame of reference in which I might at least vaguely understand.
I didn’t have the anxiety, more relief because I had many ND friends and existing understanding of Autism and the social model of disability, but I do understand it. I actually had a lot of grief to process.
Like, this is new information to Joyce and it could potentially shift how she sees her entire life. Through in the uncertainty around whether she’s Autistic or CPTSD, and that’s plenty to be overwhelmed by. Plus she straight up does not have a good time when it comes to change or big new information and isn’t in the best space to deal with it right now.
It’d likely take a few days to even process the information.
And its even possible that Joyce doesn’t know she’s autistic.
I mean, Dina does act ‘different’ (as joyce says, like a ‘robot’) but given how sheltered Joyce’s home life was, she might not even recognize that she is, chalking up her differences to her ethnic background or upbringing instead. (Well, assume she actually is…Willis has said she hasn’t been diagnosed)
True, however suddenly having a label does make you hyper-aware of yourself. It’s easy to start second-guessing whether you have other symptoms or traits you masked or never noticed before.
Besides, anxiety is irrational. You can’t always logic your way out of an emotional response.
To an extent you have to acknowledge it and accept that other people will be acknowledging it as a truth about you. A truth that they will interpret in their own way and may consider to have power and leverage over the other aspects of your identity.
You can see that as giving up power over your own self or weakening your defences on your quirks and personality. Those times when you aren’t synchronised with what someone else wants you to be or with a group they might bring this up and point to other members with that condition and how they should be handled to bring them in line as a helpful resolution.
It doesn’t matter how fair legitimate or true that turns out to be, it is intimidating and not something that can easily be taken back.
It’s also possible that someone who has been trying to ignore the possibility of having autism or a similar ND condition would actively have avoided learning about it and have a fuzzy idea based on the most prevalent depictions of it in fiction, and in the most out their attitudes from other people, perhaps built up like a trail of crumbs over decades (which means some of the ideas will be very outdated).
If you weren’t diagnosed as a child, or if people tried to diagnose you without tipping you off then there are probably attitudes at home, or a whole bunch of interactions and certain looks you got from close family that you all of a sudden have to re-assess too.
Getting diagnosed doesn’t change who you are, rather it just means you had it all along. But there are a lot of misconceptions and social stigma from other people about autism. And for me at least, getting diagnosed means I’ve been looking back on a lot of my life and realizing just how much of the way I behave and do things has been due to having an autistic brain, rather than a neurotypical one.
So yeah, telling other people, even people who you’re close to like friends or family, that you’re autistic can change how they view you and treat you, and finding out that you’re autistic definitely can change how you view yourself too.
Oh yea, that’s soem internalised ableism, especially juxtaposed with the robot comment, Joyce now has to contend with all that thinking directed at herself.
Sucks how the first person you gotta get past is yourself before you can protect yourself from ableism everywhere else
After all those talks with Jennifer about friends who keep treating you one way without acknowledging that you’ve changed, I’m sure Joyce isn’t exactly happy to be told that they will continue to see her the way they always have. Joyce wants things to change. This will probably make her wants to get away from her friends.
She does want them to treat her differently because of her newfound atheism and other growth over the last semester. I don’t think she wants being diagnosed with autism to make them treat her differently.
Joyce literally has not changed, it’s pretty much been her the whole time she just knows now that she’s possibly autistic which explains how she operates.
Once again reaffirming that the “skeptical” crowd will not be engaged in good faith, because they’ve already proven they can’t behave themselves. If you can’t let others talk about themselves without saying “but actually” or “this seems far-fetched”, you don’t deserve a place at the table, and I kindly invite you to go do something more in line with your level of maturity, such as eating glue or shitting yourself and crying about it.
“There’s only one thing that I know how to do well
And I’ve often been told that you only can do
What you know how to do well
And that’s be you
Be what you’re like
Be like yourself
And so I’m having a wonderful time
But I’d rather be whistling in the dark.”
I don’t like where this is going. I think Joyce’s background is complicated enough, she doesn’t need a brain diagnose on top of that. Autism kinda shifts the blame for her problems from her family being f**ked up to her being born somehow “wrong”.
Haha nope. You’re just plain wrong. Two things can be simultaneously true about a person and neither one replaces the other. “Blame” is a really stupid concept to being into this.
Taffy, it sounds like the conversation so far has been really frustrating and irritating to you. Is there something we can do to support you?
I want to respect how you feel, however that might be. You’ve sounded pretty ticked off for a while now, and that’s 100% fine. But calling folks stupid might make the conversation even more grating and less welcoming than it is already, and I wasn’t sure whether that was your intention.
Oh, it’s absolutely my intention to diminish certain words and make the conversation less welcoming to certain lines of thought, because those words and ideas have absolutely no place in any useful conversation about a topic like this. If somebody feels less comfortable saying certain (very shitty) things, then that’s a good thing, actually, because it gives them the opportunity to listen instead, and if they take it personally it’s not my failing to deal with or my emotional state to coddle.
Another passing thought, if somebody’s ignorant and sees one person being less than perfectly polite and welcoming about that ignorance, and they decide to take it as some personal slight and Get Worse, I’m not optimistic that they were likely to be decent in the first place, so it’s no great loss.
Kaffeeteria, I really hear what you’re saying, here.
When I used to be more personally active in the neurodiversity community, we used to hear a lot of talk from the so-called “experts” about whose “fault” neurodevelopmental differences were.
“Refrigerator moms,” etc. There still is those kinds of blinders, in the medical discourse, and especially in more religious contexts.
So no matter how wrong that mindset of blame is, a person living with a neurodevelopmental difference or condition might still pick up some of that sense of “blame” by osmosis.
So I do hear what you’re saying — how scary it can be, to have a new diagnosis of a lifelong way of being on top of PTSD and anxiety and recovery and so much more. I think the folks in the chat are more focused though on how it can also be liberating to find a context and community that makes one’s “quirks” feel somehow more “normal”. And might just unlock some new potential and self-confidence, within that new context.
So a diagnosis can be a mixed blessing, sometimes.
I think there could be the perception of this by uninformed observers, but the diagnosis might help her in other ways too! There may be resources or support for some of her struggles, which doesn’t really exist for her unique fundie upbringing and the damage it caused.
So, uh, something I should point out: Developmental disability is highly stigmatized in most cults and extremist groups – much more than in mainstream society. The extremist cult-like group I was raised in full on believed in eugenics. “I’m not saying we should kill them all but the N***s weren’t wrong about everything. They shouldn’t reproduce.” Is something I heard from my parents at many a dinner conversation.
There are evangelical cults that full on believe autism is demons and should be removed by what amounts to torture.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that stigma is the source of Joyce’s freakout here. I feel like we’re about to understand new levels of awful about her upbringing.
Chalk it up to another instance of ‘here’s a normal story from my childhood that’s appropriate for the point but not too awful… Wait why is everyone looking at me like that?”
By which I mean: I’m not going for pity when I relay stuff like this. Just more pointing out parallels between my authoritarian right wing extremist prepper upbringing with Joyce’s. But it’s not at all uncommon for people to react this way to stuff that was very normalized for me. The new levels of awful was around the ways these groups tend to react if you deviate from norm, not referring to my dinner conversation (which to me was bad but not like new levels of awful bad, just more ordinarily messed up beliefs bad, if that makes sense).
I get what she’s coming from because I lived a similar trajectory is my point. But also that having been raised in extremism completely blows up any calibration of normal you might try to build.
Like if it makes sense I get uncomfortable when people react this intensely to something that I’ve shared that to me was kind of background radiation? Not that those beliefs and the impact of that indoctrination is normal but it was very normalized to me, so an intense reaction is kind of awkward to me an “oh, wait, that’s not within bounds of normal for a right wing leaning upbringing. Guess I gotta recalibrate again.”
But at the same time I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to have an intense reaction to it because having those kinds of conversations about disability (or gay people or women’s rights or etc) was just a dinnertime conversation at the time. It wasn’t something that I tend to think of as traumatic at all.
& I don’t mean this as a criticism of you Laura at all. More that it’s uncomfortable and a bit frustrating to realize, yet again, my childhood was fucked up in another way I haven’t considered. If that makes sense and all.
OK, Wow — I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cause discomfort. I do regret and apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. Thank you for letting me know how you feel.
And like I don’t necessarily want you to stop reacting authentically, because it’s important to realize that it was fucked up, if that makes sense? Just more of a damn it, here we go again.
ischemgeek – different particulars, but I have a friend who also had an incredibly fucked-up childhood, and this sort of thing used to happen all the time – they would refer to some act of physical abuse, or mention a thing their parents regularly told them that any rational person would consider verbal abuse, and be surprised, sometimes upset when we universally reacted with shock and horror.
It was a good thing for this friend to GET that feedback, and it helped get them to a point where they are now living in a different state with safe people and minimal-to-no contact with the abusive family, thank fucking god. But it was a fine line to walk, trying to convey “this awful thing you’re being told about yourself isn’t true” or “I know you love your sibling but they are are NOT SAFE when they keep giving your new contact info to your physically violent father despite being asked not to do that”, stuff they desperately, desperately needed to hear, and weren’t hearing from anyone else, while also not overwhelming them with these negative reactions that made them feel defensive, or caused them to shut down.
It’s hard all around, and hardest for the person who not only suffered that fucked-up childhood, but is burdened with having to do the work of untangling it all.
Anyway, I’m sorry you have to carry all that, and I recognize how mentally, emotionally, and spiritually exhausting it must be.
@Cerusee – absolutely all of this. It comes down to not all discomfort is harmful and I prefer for folks not to prioritize comfort over wellbeing even if it makes me feel awkward or frustrated or uncomfortable sometimes.
So like if it seems I don’t appreciate just how messed up something is, absolutely react authentically because I probably need to know even if it’s uncomfortable.
Aw, guys! This is one of those important Joyce life events where you have to take it as seriously as she does, c’mon. It’s a big change, refusing to even go ‘wow that’s wild joyce’ for a second might come across as minimizing the shock she’s in.
This. Exactly this is how my friends reacted to my diagnosis too. It was one of the best things when they said, “yup, makes sense.” And if anything relationships improved because now we all had a filter and context for some of my weirdness. He’ll it made me fell less like a flawed asshole when I mistook social situations.
Reactions among my friends & family, in order:
“One of us! One of us!” (An autistic friend)
“OH THANK GOD YOU FIGURED IT OUT I was wondering how to tell you without being rude.” (My cousin who’s an NP)
“You mean you don’t already know? Mom & dad have been talking about it since you were like in middle school. I thought you knew.” (My sibling)
“Wait, you’re not already?” X3
“You’re just finding this out now?!” X2
“That ABSOLUTELY tracks.”
And “Huh. … HUH. I was a little surprised but the more I think about it the more it makes sense how good you and [my autistic cousin] get along. You’re on the same wavelength, that explains it.”
(oh and my father basically going “ABSOLUTELY NOT. No way. No how. No, you can’t have it because if you have if I have it. Waitaminute. DO I have it?” over about 3 months as he learned more about autism)
[My mother answered most of the pediatric screening questions with ‘no more than the rest of the family’, which was both completely true and wildly misinterpreted.]
Yeahhhh… Doesn’t just happen with autism My folks missed me & my hyperomobility because in a family where literally everyone’s beighton score is >4 being able to bend your knees back 15° and touch your thumbs to your forearms and walk on the top of your feet isn’t weird.
Took my nibling developing epilepsy and the neurologist realizing kid’s made of rubber and has a Marfanoid build for us to start putting together bite issues and velvety soft skin and stretchy skin and stretch marks galore and myopia and hyperomobility and hindfoot valgus deformities etc and start realizing we might all have EDS.
Yeah, I was the Dad in that scenario. Basically, I was even more impacted than my son, and once he got the diagnosis, I literally had this moment of, “this doesn’t make sense, he’s not nearly as big a social misfit as I wa……..
Yeah! She has Dorothy to drag her to the appointments she books for her! And Sarah to give her a brash kick in the butt when she needs one! And Becky, for… uh… not telling anything to and keeping her pigeonholed in her old role in her life!
Maybe her friends aren’t the greatest support system…
Whoever said Dorothy is the mom friend really really nailed it. “You’re still you no matter what a label says, Joyce, and whether you have that label or not. And we like you!” So much momming.
Jeez Joyce, calm down. You just have high functioning Autism. You’re treating this as if you’ve discovered you have a Gluten allergy and now you have to dismantle your entire life all because of a new box of knock off triscuits.
Hey ! Just so you’re aware terms like “high functioning” and “low functioning” are misnomers and aren’t really used by autistic people nowadays. Some people have traits that make it harder to gel into a society that was made for only neurotypical people, and some others are able to “hide” their autism on the day to day, but it doesn’t mean one is better “functioning” than the other!
Joyce hasn’t yet realized that finding out youre autistic means realizing you’re not alone and there’s tons of people who interact with the world the exact same way you do. Finally realizing there was a word and an entire community for what I thought was just me failing to be a person helped me so much
To be fair, I can see like-minded doctors seeing signs of mental disabilities in Ross MacIntyre with how he came off in more neurotypical settings. Most likely, it had to do with never caring enough to mature past the level of a selfish toddler whose identity as a man and a father was a charade, which was enough for him.
I’m pretty sure Joyce just is neurotic while dealing with PTSD is all.
it’s moments like this that’s nice to remind EVERYONE, but mostly young people that you will never have everything figured out. you may THINK you have everything figured out, but that’s when life throws you a curveball.
i was thinking this in particular when the second semester started, all the characters seemed like they had it together, or at least acted like they did (Jennifer in particular). which is extremely funny for a group of 18-19 yo’s. I’m excited to see these characters explore the wonders and horrors of early adulthood
But sometimes I get overwhelmed just thinking about all the hurt in it. REALLY overwhelmed.
I just want a way I can help that isn’t so self destructive, one where I can both help from the world and escape from it at the same time.
I bring up digestion and microbiome because that kind of stuff fascinates me.
I used to watch this movie, I can’t remember what it’s called, but it takes place inside the human body, kind of like fantastic voyage.
But it was also animated, all cool too, like the kind of CGI from Lego Bionacle.
It was a lot like Star Wars, where like these microscopic cyborg warriors had to find a cure for a global epidemic, where like the fate of not only the body but the whole human race was at stake, where Metabolism and blood cells was was like The Force, it was this whole other LIVING world, full of fantastic creatures, these warriors hiding and encountering each other in dark caves and stuff!!!!
And the weirdest part of this movie and why I like it so much?
It’s like, about a global epidemic – disease, something else that has taken SO MUCH from me. I can’t even count the number of people around the world I really admired that died because of COVID and other diseases, not to mention my own experiences with debilitating physical illnesses.
It was problem that was and is really real to me, and so many others, that took away people and things I love. But here I could like, face it in a DIGESTIBLE way. A way, an EXPERIENCE that was fun and cool.
It was like a way I can face a problem with the cruel cruel world and escape from it too.
Hmm. Was it “A Wind In The Door”, by Madeleine L’Engle? That sounds a bit like what you’re describing.
I’m so sorry that the pandemic has been so hard on you, NG. It’s awful how much it has taken from us.
“I just want a way I can help that isn’t so self destructive, one where I can both help from the world and escape from it at the same time.”
It sounds like you’re expressing compassion fatigue, what I call “toxic empathy”. I think of that old Star Trek episode, “The Empath,” as a cautionary tale: ” Run away, Gem! Don’t place the value of others’ survival over your own! ‘She who heals and runs away lives to heal another day.’ ‘Discretion is the better part of valor.’ ‘An advanced healer uses her advanced experience to avoid needing to use her advanced skill.’ ‘No heroes, no machos, no martyrs.’ ‘Martyr c’est pourrir un peu.’ ‘Adjust your own oxygen mask before assisting others.’ ” …And so forth. Exact opposite message from what Roddenberry and the writers wanted the viewer to draw from that episode.
We have to preserve our own wellbeing first. That includes taking breaks. Stepping back to reassess. That includes finding balance.
It’s been a very long day for Joyce. She should scream into a pillow or Joe’s chest or something after checking to make sure there’s no one within 1000 feet to assume that Joyce being exhausted and stressed is a direct insult to the core of her being.
Joyce’s friends have been relentlessly badgering her for several days, including when she openly said she was exhausted and in pain and needed people to leave her alone.
I didn’t understand the direct insult part. Sure they may have prioritized their own need above hers, as teenagers often do, but I don’t remember anyone being insulted that she was tired.
Sarah told Joyce she’d been over-valuing Joyce’s needs right after Joyce said that she wished people would get off her back, during a storyline where it was pretty explicit that Sarah knew the details of Joyce’s physical suffering from her periods.
Joyce repeatedly, explicitly said she was tired, taking a nap, in pain, her whole body hurt, etc. Like a dozen times, she said she had a headache, that she needed to lie down, that everything hurt? Most of Joyce in that storyline is Joyce trying to get some rest, and people intruding on her, and then criticizing her or telling her she’s an asshole for not reacting well to criticism and intrusive questions when she’s exhausted and in pain.
(Sarah’s speech also happened immediately after Dina, who climbed on top of Joyce while she was asleep, refused to leave after being asked to back off, then intensely interrogated her about her childhood physical abuse—because Dina wanted insight into Becky; Dina does not care about Joyce even a little bit—walked out of their shared dorm room implying that Joyce’s negative personality traits were the result of childhood abuse, which is a such an awful thing to say or even imply I cannot believe it’s mostly gone without comment.)
I feel bad for Joyce. Her friends are not helping at all. I don’t know what definition of autism she’s thinking of, but it isn’t the likely-to-build-elaborate-things-well one, which does match her somewhat. My guess is she’s thinking of doomed-to-misinterpret-everyone. That’s why her friends confirming it is bad. Especially since it’s only been true in the past due to her upbringing and she’s been improving rapidly. I doubt she’s thinking of the violent-outburst-high-pitched-cooing one, or even unwilling-to-look-people-in-the-eyes, which aren’t her either.
Yes, I saw, you did good. Usually your alien-parasite comments seem unrelated, but in recent days it’s clear where you’re coming from and you’ve been on point.
Me, no. In third grade the doctors gave me lots of tests and concluded I had a severe case of normality. Very amusing. It might come out different nowadays. I do know people who have been traumatized by a diagnosis of autism though. The trauma wouldn’t have happened (for them) if the definition of autism was narrower in scope and severity.
Like, a system geared towards the average person is guaranteed to fail, period.
Like the US military designed cock-pits for fighter pilots based on the ‘average’ of each paramater for them such as arm length, height, etc.
The end result? Not a SINGLE pilot fit into the cockpits. Quite a pressing matter considering the ability to reach a button in time would be a matter of life and death.
Seeing how stupid this was, they commissioned inventors to create ADJUSTABLE cockpits that could be moved around to fit virtually ANY pilot.
This design lives on in adjustable seats in cars, a VERY important innovation.
Ergo the needs of ANY group, including neurodivergents, that need tools that they can use to help themselves and others help them, including communicative concepts.
You’re on the right track, but here’s what I think should ideally happen:
The concept of autism is broken down into pieces, pieces that correspond to particular quirks / disadvantages / powers to be proud of, like eye contact problems, social cue confusion, hyperfocus, etc.
This way, people could just piece them back together, like custom Lego brick structures, and they can choose for themselves what parts they want people to know most about them while not having them lumped in with a million other things they don’t want others to assume about them.
I know a lot of people around here use “autism” to describe themselves as a kind of pride and joy and content, and I DEFINITELY don’t want to take happy things away from innocent people but like….
I also don’t want it to be something where people like me don’t get as much attention or support just because we don’t want to identify with an all-or-nothing package deal.
It’s like, I don’t wanna feel left out of this just because I don’t feel like all my stripes don’t quite neatly fit under a nice, neat little 3 syllable word.
The way people use “autism” here, it’s common sense that it IS fluid, that you can never ever ever assume anything about ones who identify like that.
But unfortunately, that’s not the case in the majority of the rest of the world, a world where I myself have been a victim of systematic bigotry for identifying as autistic, and it almost fucking broke me.
I’m just slowly working into it yes, but if I ever want to identify comfortably as autistic here, it’s gonna be….
….tough, internally, awkward, weird, sorting it out, and with the world at large being the way it is….
if I ever want to comfortably identify as “autistic”, it’s likely I’ll inevitably have to be too different people, in two different places — a larger world out there where I have to hide it to be safe, and this community, where I can have people respect how I identify, what I want “autism” to mean for ME, just as much as they respect how I’m gender fluid.
If I ever identify as “autistic”, it would be MINE, MINE, and no one else could say for me what it means about me.
Like for instance, “autistic people being more likely to be into STEM”,
This is just the kind of assumptions, the things that GET ON MY FUCKING NERVES
I like STEM because I like STEM. It has NOTHING to do with my neurodivergence. And anyone who DARES tell me otherwise can eat a double-decker manure battery acid parasite spore sandwich with plutonium on top, I’ve FUCKING HAD IT WITH THE ASSUMPTIONS.
Sorry, I just really need that cathartic release right now.
Anyway, great talking to you Lucky Winner, you seem nice, I can tell what you say is coming from a place of compassion, even though it might not always seem like that.
(BTW if anyone tells me that my mutual agreement with you is because of my neurodivergence / “autism” “interfering with my reading of social cues”, that it makes me “wrong” somehow, I have a a thousand live parasite spores at the ready)
Good journey, Lucky. Cool name.
Thank you for taking the time to notice me. That means a lot. 🥹
The only unrealistic part of the autistic young woman’s experience here is Joyce even having a friend who says “That checks out” and not “no way I never would have guessed!!”
Unless Sarah is ALSO autistic which tbh would check out as well because as an Autistic Non Male Person i find her one of the most relatable characters in the comic, personally.
Backreading comments, I kind of want to add my thoughts.
I think Joyce getting a diagnosis here can actually help her a lot with her transition into changes and her anxiety over people not acknowledging she changed.
Because it’s a commonality between who she was before and who she is now that by being acknowledged is very likely to make ACTUAL changes easier to sort out. Like… Joyce is obsessed with the cartoons she grew up with and is a picky eater because she’s autistic, not because she’s Christian! She’s a peppy boundary ignoring ray of sunshine because she’s autistic, not because she’s Christian (although losing her faith is a very logical reason for the sunshine to be dampened for a while).
Like… there’s the half of her Joyceness that she’s shrugging off as she’s leaving the cult she grew up in, and there’s the half of her Joyceness that’s how her neurotype manifested, and I think it can help a lot to sort that out.
Me if I ever see Tony Hawk: Hey you’re Tony Hawk the famous skateboarder. That’s right I recognise you. Won’t be able to get any content out of this will you, you piece of shit
How to read all 28 issues of my Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane run on Marvel Unlimited:
1: The first four issues were published as the miniseries "Mary Jane."
www.marvel.com/comics/serie...
today in #9chickweedlane i learned we have to be shown children learning and relearning what sex is, for Reasons, even though they already clearly know and have prepared nuanced questions about it!
also that Gran must hate, if she's still alive, how Old Juliette is the same but with gray hair
one of my favorite things is when a commenter explodes WHEN DO THESE CHARACTERS GET THERAPY but directed towards a character who canonically has a regular therapist
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 12d
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“If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it doesn’t change how we feel about you, Joyce”
“buh?”
“er, I mean, about the duck”
alt: “ARTistic”
…
“doc says I’m probably ARTISTIC YEAH”
OK, am I the only one around here who gets REALLY pissed off when seeing stuff on YouTube and other platforms going stuff like “mildy artistic” like that and you know what they ACTUALLY mean by that?!?!?!
yes
I’m unfamiliar with this phenomenon. Can you explain it more?
In an episode of South Park, Cartman’s mom takes a vaccine shot. Then Cartman is told his mom is “artistic” as a parody of vaccines causing autism. You need to see more of the episode for context.
Also in Family Guy, God is “mildly autistic”.
“mildly artistic” is a variant on that, just as usual the internet and the media taking a word and running with it, and all the consequences. From cash grabbing YouTubers who want their thumbnail to get clicks, to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.
My old friend/roommate once introduced himself as “high functioning autistic.” I asked him what that meant, and he answered: “High functioning is what parents call their own children. Low functioning is what parents call other people’s children.”
I don’t know those specific cultural references, so I could be wrong. But I don’t think there’s any harm in calling oneself “mildly” anything. Folks can choose the labels they want to call themselves.
…Maybe I’m reading it wrong?
I’ve heard this all while my kids grew up, so no you’re reading it right.
High functioning is what they call you if they want an excuse to invalidate your opinion or deny accommodation on the grounds they think you’re not disabled enough to count.
Low functioning is what they call you if they want to treat you like a thing and ignore what you think about it on the grounds you’re too disabled to count.
Claiming to have a medical condition you don’t is harmful to the people who do have it because it can create a perception that it’s not a “real” thing, making it harder for people who do have the condition to get appropriate support and recognition.
Ok, that makes sense! Thank you, all 3 of you!
“…to people who want an excuse for being an asshole and weaponize self-affirmations.” People actually need an excuse to do that??
Actually –
Autistic people have a somewhat higher probability to become scientists.
Therefore, autism causes vaccines.
(credit to SMBC for this one, I think?)
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/autism-and-vaccines
Another incredibly long running webcomic where I’ve read every comic twice, to the point where I frequently think “wasn’t there an SMBC about this?” and yeah, usually there was.
See, see, this is EXACTLY why i worked so fucking hard to distance myself from the “autism” label, all the stereotypes all these ASSUMPTIONS, all the PITY, all the TOXICITY.
It was like tearing my fucking arm off. At the moment I’m working on a way I can describe myself, a way to untangle myself and my personality, the way I am, while still acknowledging my neurodivergence and things I have to do in a way that just avoids the label and all this BAGGAGE and PAIN and HURT, it feels like I’m hanging above a fucking emotional PRECIPICE,
IT’S AWFUL
I FEEL SO ALONE!!!!
It feels like you might want to stay out of the comments section for a while?
Well, I hope we can convince you that you’re not.
If it makes anyone feel any better, the dipshit that originally wrote the “vaccines cause autism” research paper not only retracted it, but lost his medical license. Yet much like scientology, the damage was already done even if the original author disavowed it.
NG, BTW, that “Machinarium” soundtrack you recommended to me is BLOWING my FLYING MIND.
sorry about that outburst, really sorry if I caused any of you any stress
but I just really needed that cathartic release
Deathjavu, thank you for your attempt to assure me I am not alone, regardless of how effective it is.
It’s just that, what if I do identify as “autistic”?
I know it might be healthy for me to do that HERE, but like…..
What about out there in the world out there where I CAN’T, the world where the “autism” label is like a giant “abuse me” sign, the world that I’ll HAVE to interact with and get my name out there for all the stuff I want to do in life?
(this comment is a two-parter, sorry, stay tuned)
(BTW thank you too Laura, that song makes me tear up every time I listen, SO BEAUTIFUL 🥲)
You are not alone. I know that sounds incredibly glib (and possibly a bit crass), for which I apologise; i am trying to affirm, not patronise. But look where you are: the people regularly contributing to this chat have done their best to turn it into a very safe space. I like hanging out here for that reason. I am neurotypical, but I am a parent to a neurodivergent child and I work with neurodivergent children, so I am as close as a neurotypical person can be to understanding you; I am also LGBTQ+, so I definitely understand ‘different’ and ‘isolated’. But if we support each other, then the ‘typical’ world can go f##k itself.
Even now, with accepting communities like this to help us, outside in the rest of the world, I learned the hard way that it’s REALLY good advice not to tie yourself to the “autism” image.
Between employers, “normies” out there, people who you have to interact with to do what you want in life, they don’t think twice when they hear you say “I am autistic”. If they’ve seen ONE “autistic” like that, they think ALL are like that.
Not out of malice or deliberate bigotry every time, but like, because HUMANS and their monkey ass brains don’t really strive towards TRUTH as much as they strive towards internal CONSISTENCY of their beliefs, their thoughts, their emotions, including those involving ANY group they’ve come to believe about them, hence unconscious biases, of which PITY and TOXIC POSITIVITY and INITIALIZATION of us neurodivergents is especially insidious.
It’s like… if I EVER want to be myself and content and happy with who I am and at the same time rationally and successfully navigate an unjust and indifferent world with a broken, unstable system….
that I have to be like, two different people, walking in two different worlds: one where I can embrace being “autistic”, and one where I can’t
like I have to live two different lives, and bend and break my brain just to barely make things work out for me in an unjust, indifferent universe
*INFANTILIZATION
oh well, a typo isn’t the worse thing that’s ever happened to me, I guess
Have you tried journaling? It’s a way to vent that definitely will not cause anyone stress, so that you can save less inflammatory communication for the comments.
I know you mentioned the possibility of causing people stress, so you must care about it, and maybe you haven’t considered keeping a journal yet. I’d give it a shot, could make you feel better in general, though of course it will not cure the wounds of society’s ableism.
I’ve tried journaling, didn’t really work, also couldn’t make a commitment because GUESS WHAT, that’s part of my divergence too.
You humans will often see that difficulty as part of the stripes you put into the “ADHD” category, correct?
But what if some don’t feel comfy with that label? What if they have trauma associated with that? What if they just feel like they’re MORE than that, and want their individuality, their uniqueness, to be noticed in spite of other HUMANS and their SMOL BRAINS mostly paying attention to a single acronym or word for people they were brought up to pity? What then?
If they don’t accept the label, they don’t get help or attention. If they do accept it, they’re stigmatized. It’s like you lose no matter what you do.
And this unfairness is by no means exclusive to neurodivergence,
Frankly I am sick and tired of you humans and your tendency to punish, torment and tease members of your own species for the random, uncontrollable circumstances of their birth.
Oh, he didn’t retract it. The journal did.
I saw yesterday just how diverse “autism” can be, just how different you all can be, how it’s just common sense around here not to make assumptions about people with autism.
We take a person from here who uses the word “autism” to describe who they are. We see another person from reddit who uses it in “autism screech”. These two people might be using the same *English* word, but they might as well be speaking two different languages. One is the language of asserting equal freedoms, and one is the language that gives license to oppress others on account of the uncontrollable circumstances of birth. In one language, “autistics” are more or less the same, and in the other, they are allowed to be very much different.
A person from Santa Cruz, California, and another from Harrison, Arkansas, both use the word “freedom”. It’s the same word, but different languages, really. One is the language that seeks to liberate, and one is a language that seeks to oppress.
I can only hope you see the essential principle there, because i have not the spoons to expand upon it, really.
I like things to be fluid. It’s why I’m genderfluid, I get the best of all genders, and new genders that don’t even have names yet.
If “autism” around here can be fluid, if it can be a disability or a superpower or lots of other things depending on what I feel like on any day and people MUST automatically respect it, then here and ONLY here do I feel comphy calling myself “autistic”.
But even then, if I do accept being “autistic”, I have to face an awful reality that comes with it — that I was hurt in really AWFUL ways by others because of it, I’m a victim of systematic bigotry.
I had so much, my childhood, my pride, so many things taken because of it, things that I may never be able to replace.
It’s left me feeling so scarred, so nervous, so broken
My experiences are ones that matter, yes, but like, I just don’t want it to make me into someone all bitter and anti-fun, you know?
I find myself caught in a struggle, a struggle between who I WANT to be, and the kinds of things my trauma forces me to be. It’s like I have to combine my bubbliness and bitterness into one, and every time I try to bend and break my brain to make it work it inevitably results in a person with conflicting attributes.
I just feel so alone…..
*hugs*
“Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.”
To borrow a queer term: It’s ok to stay in the closet in places it’s not safe to be out. that’s what it’s *for*
I have plenty of both bubbles and bitterness myself, too. These days, they get along fairly well.
Ad another episode has Cartman stuffing cheeseburgers down the back of his pants because he has “Ass-burgers”
Oh Joyce
She’s just trying so hard to mask her anxiety, that spiral of emotions, that PANIC just SCRAPING AT THE DOOR, I can tell!!!!!
Whatever she eventually chooses to do with her referral, I REALLY REALLY hope her friends respect her wishes.
HANG IN THERE FAM FAM!!!!!
*plays “Cross the Stormy Sea” from Pokemon Movie Music CD*
I can’t decide if this is Sarah being supportive or not.
I think this is as close to supportive as Sarah gets
If Sarah doesn’t growl at you and tell you to go away, she’s being supportive.
If Sarah does growl at you and tells you to go away, she’s being incredibly caring.
It strikes me as casual acceptance, she’s not gonna make a big deal about it even if Joyce wants someone to
I remember being told once regarding big reveals (specifically coming out of the closet, in that case) that the polite thing to do is to take your cue from the person making the reveal with regards to how dramatic the tone should be? So if they’re teary eyed and delivering big declarations you should respond in kind with big teary declarations of reassurance and support, and if they’re like “oh by the way I’m gay” without taking their eyes off Mario Kart you should be like “ok cool” and also keep your eyes on Mario Kart. I don’t know if that’s always the right call or always possible, but I can see the logic.
Right now there’s some dissonance for Joyce due to the fact that they aren’t meeting her on her level, I think? Joyce feels like her entire world got turned upside down and she has to reevaluate everything she thought she knew about who she is as a person. And Dorothy and Sarah are NOT REACTING WITH EQUIVALENT LEVELS OF SHOOK.
I love this advice
We saw this happen before, when Sarah first saw Joyce in her glasses. She needs some “my-level-of-freaking-out-is-justified” assurance, stat.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/joycelifeevents/
I think both Sarah and Dorothy are trying to be supportive, but missing the mark. Joyce doesn’t need to be told she’s always been herself, or that they could have guessed. She probably needs them to actually talk to her and help her process her feelings (not necessarily right in this moment, but saying ‘yeah we guessed that don’t worry about it’ isn’t enough), especially given how many/most of her friends aren’t acknowledging ways she HAS changed.
Very true. So many people associate autism with disability. With some reason — many people who have autism or other neurodevelopmental spectrum conditions *do* have disabilities that can sometimes make it more difficult to achieve their goals, without arranging for particular community support.
(I say that and it sounds completely hypocritical, because honestly, who among us could have done half the things we do with our lives without SOME kind of support in this world? It’s like that 2012 speech: “You didn’t build that!” We’re an interdependent species and everything we do affects others.)
But anyway, Joyce hears “autism” and thinks “disability”. And that’s not the way she wants to see herself. It’s not how she envisions her future.
What I mean is, when she thinks of disability, she thinks of limitations.
She doesn’t think of how exploring this side of her might free her to unlock her particular superpowers.
Yeah Laura, I hate this. I can never identify as “autistic” out there because of the thing people would think of me, the assumptions they would make whether they intend to or not.
I don’t wanna go through all that effort fixing things in their thinking because let’s face facts – the way humans think in general, for SO MANY THINGS including neurodivergence, is just intrinsically flawed.
I’m afraid that the progress we can make in our society is very much chained down by processes that are just hardwired into Homo sapien brains.
And oh well. I guess a life form produced by 4.5 billion years worth of happy accidents can only do so much right.
*SIGH*
Do you like dogs, NG? Their brains are delightfully unique. But no less brilliant than humans. Dogs are more brilliant, even, because they can sense and distinguish thousands of smells, read the full recent past of any location, with a single sniff. They can even diagnose COVID-19 before the best chemical tests can. They are tremendously talented. They are playful, creative, problem-solving, ingenious, affectionate, goofy, hyperactive, hyperfocused, distractible… every stripe of human brain/personality, you can find a dog who makes it huge and colorful.
Thank you for trying to help Laura.
I very much appreciate your effort.
But like, I’m really dizzy and in a spiral right now.
Just overwhelmed by all this…. this world…. history stained by the suffering of the innocent… the awfulness… all this injustice…. all this suffering….
HOW DO YOU HUMANS LIVE LIKE THIS?!?!?!
OK, yeah, I get that.
Maybe take a break from this for a while. If you’re in a place where you can step outside and touch the ground or breathe in the air deeply with your nose, that helps. Or running your hands under a faucet.
Or what soothes you. Maybe a game or some music, or a coding project you’re working on. (I find Foucault’s georotational pendulum incredibly soothing, but that’s just me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71acFIh0g0)
You know how to care for yourself — I’m not able to play Mr. Fix-It and it’s often unhelpful when I try.
I hope your spiral can find its internal gyroscope soon. We all need to find our center of stable spin, sometimes.
I don’t feel a thing….
And I stop remembering….
The days are just like moments turned to hours….
Mother used to say…..
If you want, you’ll find a way…..
But mother never danced through fire shower…..
Walk….. in the rain….
In the rain…. in the rain….
I walk in the rain…. in the rain…..
Is it right or is it wrong……
And is it here that I belong?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_p-nhZXLg
So, yes, I understand exactly what you mean and appreciate that neither you or any one owes anyone else insight into your/their diagnosis/disability/neurotype.
It’s something I’ve been thinking about A LOT bc at uni I’m studying social work and find the way Autism is taught about is not good, and the mental health classes have actually disencouraged me…. My response has been to put on battle armour and go to war against the school, researching the experience of ND students and writing evidence-heavy essay on the subject to advocate for a neurodiversity affirming approach to be used by the school.
I believe that progress isn’t chained by the way we think (although I may be misinterpretting this part of your comment, wellerman, so apologies if so), but it is chained by our social systems (schools/unis/healthcare/govt/family). There’s tonnes of people in the disability movement fighting to make changes (in my country, this includes creating housing opportunities for young disabled people who have been put into aged care homes, more support in schools, NDIS etc). I draw hope from that*.
Also, Autism [can be] a disability. It is for me, but I use the perspective of the social model of disability. The world isn’t made with people like me in mind, and that is what is disabling. If the pharmacy is over-stimulating with bright, flashing lights and seventeen billion tvs going at the same time, then I am disabled because I cannot fill my scripts, or if I do I won’t be functional for three days while I recover. I wouldn’t be disabled if there was an option for me to access my medication without sending me into a three day long shutdown+ recovery time.
*there is so much more I want to say because I’m very passionate about the subject, hence inserting myself, but I started to tangent about how industrialisation contributed to disabling neurodivergency eg sleep-wake cycles and realised it was off topic
Oh, wow. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing that!
People ask why autism diagnosis rates are rising — maybe because society is growing less hospitable for different ways of perceiving and learning and interacting with the world.
Maybe, but I’m not sure I buy it. It’s not like a lot of behavior didn’t get hostile responses in the past without having a medical diagnosis attached to it.
There’s a bunch of factors that contribute to rising rates of diagnosis:
– changes to the diagnostic criteria (the current diagnosis is Autistic Spectrum Disorder which covers many out dated diagnoses like Asperger’s)
– increased understanding and research into gender and (to a lesser extent) racial differences in how Autism is embodied leading to more women and non white people have more equitable access an accurate diagnosis
– increasing awareness via health campaigns, internet access and social media, so people are seeing more autistic individuals which leads them to recognise traits in themselves or in their children and are able to access info online
– environmental factors which lead to burnout (and support seeking) as well as things like air and water pollution which has some evidence as a contributing factor (although I’m suss on the link)
Then again the author of Ghost In The Shell used placing the brain in “Autistic Mode” as a problem solving method, several times during the series Stand Alone Complex. Apparently autism is seen as an asset in Japan when the manga was being written and kept for the anime.
The word “Autistic” basically just means “of itself”. In that anime, it’s just basically Airplane Mode with a more intelligent-sounding name. Nothing to do with the actual human condition.
I read their reactions less as “We already knew” and more as “Yeah, that tracks.”
And, honestly, I think “You’re still you, no matter what the doctors say” is exactly what Joyce – who tends to hyperfixate and overreact – needs to hear.
I’ve never lived this exact experience before so I admit that I may be speaking out of turn. However, in the face of information that I perceive as earth-shattering to my self-identity, my friends reacting to it completely in-character and not being weird about it in the slightest would be the most comforting thing in the world.
Sarah going “Yep, tracks” and Dorothy offering casual support and reassurance is exactly how they’d react to any old information, to the point where if they reacted differently I’d be questioning their motive.
Sarah is helping by not helping
Joyce: Surely someone must be surprised by this revelation! Walky, Sal, aren’t yo-
(Walky slides Sal a ten dollar bill while she wears a smug “told ya so” look)
Joyce: OH, COME ON!
That would be funny, but part of me feels like betting on if someone has autism is kinda mean. At least a little bit.
I think Sal and Walky could both manage being a little bit mean, in their own ways.
“JUDGE ME!!!”
“Nah, we’re good”
imagine if everyone already suspected she had autism
I don’t think we’re going to have to imagine that for much longer.
Personally I feel Like most of us are undiagnosed for something, half of us don’t get diagnosed till adulthood and some of us probably go through our entire lives not being diagnosed.
100% this.
Naaaaah, I doubt much of anybody has actually considered it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them had reactions like Sarah’s, where it makes so much sense once it’s come up that they’ll probably later wonder how they never realized it.
I can say with certainty that people don’t always know.
I went over 30 years not diagnosed and even after my psychiatrist and psychologist pinged me – I was only coded as autistic for almost 10 years because of bad laws in place for organ transplants.
I told my family, and people I knew and some said “ok now that you explained it, I can see that” but ROFL so many were SHOCKED.
It hasn’t affected my everyday life, but it has affected how my therapy is and how I interact with stimuli and people. I’m also more vocal about what is causing me to over stimulate. <<–that took a long time though.
Amber overhearing it: “Wait, you didn’t know?”
Both panel 1 and panel 2 Joyce would make excellent gravatars
“…but only because a change would be easier to swallow than admitting she’s who you’ve been all along.”
…could’ve sworn this was the email capitalization combo that gave me Booster, but I guess not
I think Booster’s a Greek Chorus.
Still undiagnosed but I had a friend say “oh, you’re definitely ADHD” and every person I’ve told is like “yeah, I can see it.” o3o
So, basically like this somewhat recent Real Life comic?
https://reallifecomics.com/comic.php?comic=february-8-2022
It’s really frustrating that a diagnosis for ADHD is useful for practical things, like getting meds, but it can be expensive to get. What I’m saying is that if you can afford it, you should get a diagnosis.
oh damn it’s expensive? Then yeah I ain’t never getting diagnosed. I like having money more than mental health.
Depends on how well your insurance covers specialists, and sometimes if said specialists even take insurance.
I don’t have insurance because I’d also rather have money than physical health
Then it will absolutely be expensive.
Get your subsidized health insurance policies NOW, while they’re still subsidized! Subsidies are going away, so NOW is the time to get whatever health care you can, on a plan you can afford. My sis gets excellent private managed-care health insurance, with specialist and full mental health coverage, for $0 a month, through the state health exchange. “The truth is out there,” folks.
https://www.healthcare.gov/
https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
https://www.findhelp.org/
(Not trying to be harsh, BTW. More like trying to be a carnival barker, or like the sales-pitch “Professor” in the musical, “The Music Man”.)
Man I sure would like if this site worked but I just tried making an account and
1. I have an account under my email I don’t recall making that I can’t access so that’s a fine kettle of fish
2. The profile I tried to make with my other email didn’t work because the website REFUSES, outright REFUSES to acknowledge my Zip code.
Guess the government wins. If I dies, I dies.
Hmmm… OK, maybe try your state site? Here’s a list:
https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace-in-your-state/
Most state sites will have a “health care navigator.” You can call the number and an advocate will walk you through the enrollment process.
Or at least a tech support number.
Also the AARP or that findhelp.org site could be a place to turn for advocacy to help folks navigate the system.
You can google if there’s a government-funded mental health support center near you. It’s different per state, but in Kansas and Missouri there are facilities that don’t cost money or just don’t ask for payment until you can afford it. And these are tragically pretty right-wing states. So there might be options near you.
It’s been great for my husband, who’s just been getting into sorting out his mental health.
Good idea!
Yes, several states have “regional centers” or vocational rehabilitation or behavioral health services that will offer free testing for the purpose of getting services.
Getting diagnosed for ADHD does NOT have to be expensive. It’s kinda up to your doctor how comfortable they are diagnosing it. My Primary Care doctor just gave me a little sheet to fill out, glanced at my answers, and said “congrats, you have ADHD, do you want to try Adderall first or Concerta first?” I know other people have had their doctor refer them to a bunch of specialists who then want to rule out every other option before they’ll say it’s ADHD. But sometimes it’s obvious and the general doctor knows enough about ADHD that they feel sure on their own.
Never even entered my mind until I was in my early thirties (Thanks to confirmed ADHD friends posting memes that were entirely too relatable). But it definitely put a whole bunch of my life into perspective. Got the initial assessment just before the pandemic broke out, so it took me a while to go get the actual confirmation. And I’m still out of commission due to chronic migraines, which means regulating ADHD medically is a low priority and would have conflicting meds. Super fun like that. But definitely useful in terms of self-management/
100%
My experience was basically undiagnosed into adult hood, and realising all my friends are AuDHD chanting *one of us one of us*
Basically that meme about how AuDHD people form packs like emotionally dysregulated wolves is absolutely correct.
This definitely plays into her frustration with people still treating her as the same girl as she was before despite her having all these revelations and changes. I think she just wants to grow from her changes instead people saying “nah, you’re still exactly the same and will always be the weirdo Jesus homeschool kid to us”. That’s frustrating.
Unfortunately I think you might me right, I was hoping Joyce not freaking out as they expected would force Dorothy to admit she misjudged Joyce’s character growth but now I fear she will just continue to make new well meaning assumptions.
I think Joyce is freaking out.
Over being accepted for who she is. the cult most certainly would not accept that she has autism.
I don’t think either of them are trying to say anything of the sort, but I get that’s what she’s probably hearing, which is a different matter altogether. It’s also not really helped by her being cagey about some things in a way that blew up in her face, like Becky and Dorothy finding out Joyce was an atheist in the most unflattering way possible, walking in on her also being a complete asshole.
I guess, all of that being said, Joyce is probably still figuring out how much she’s changed and what she does and doesn’t want that to mean. If she can’t figure that out, she’s going to continually be disappointed with what others make of those changes.
I really agree, thank you for the comment. I’ll add my thoughts.
Joyce just had this big convo with Jennifer and I really don’t see this reaction being reassurance to Joyce. Like, when ppl come out to others as LGBTQ+ and those people are like “oh lol that tracks / i knew” it’s such a gut-punch, ime. To save their own ego at not knowing a thing, they act like it’s not a big deal to the person telling them in a manner that *clearly* suggests it’s a big deal.
Not saying Sarah and Dorothy are being unsupportive but it’s not exactly support-*ing* *Joyce* in her moment. I wonder if the platitude-y nature is why Dina slunk away.
Did she slink away? She was still there in yesterday’s final panel; today she might still be there behind the SimTower crowd. Everything but Dorothy, Joyce, and Sarah disappears in today’s beat panel.
I bet she’s going to confront Joyce about what she overheard in the not too distant future. Hopefully, before she asks Becky for advice on how to broach the subject (and inadvertently spills the beans).
Perhaps. It was not my most confident assertion, and she does “disappear” before Joyce is even really done talking, so I doubt what I said was actually the case. Still, her sudden absence in the background, even for normal reasons, feels unsettling to me, and likely prompted my misinterpretation. Thanks for weighing in.
You’re right, they should absolutely stop loving her and caring about her because of this new information.
Seriously, the hell? Yeah, they need to adjust the way that they ***think*** about her, for a multitude a reasons, but that ain’t what Dorothy said. Dorothy said ***feel***. They’re trying to reassure her that this new information doesn’t change her worth to them, that’s bloody all.
I get Joyce misunderstanding, she’s going through some shit here, but this is absolutely the right message to emphasize.
It’s also kind of a standard trope where a character receives a stunning revelation about themselves which was blindingly apparent to everyone else in his or her life.
Yeah, I have no issue believing this based on how she’s acted in the past.
I don’t think that’s the way Joyce is hearing it though. I wouldn’t be shocked if this goes into the ‘not seeing her changing’ bin in her brain.
I apologize if I’m overstepping btw, but I kinda wanted to ask Willis a question and I wanted to know if there was a way to get in contact. His twitter is , understandably, closed off to DMs and I can’t really find any links to an email or anything.
If it wouldn’t be too big of a deal, would it be at all possible for me to get in contact? I feel weird just asking in the comment section.
You could try Tumblr.
Hm. I very well may have to. I promised I would not return but this certainly wouldn’t count as returning.
An off-the-wall suggestion: if you’ve Kickstarted anything, try posting a comment. I’m sure he has people managing those, but they might see it and decide to forward it.
He reads here sometimes
now that you mention it, yeah, not seeing a contact email.
He’s more active on Twitter. But not so much, I guess.
You could wait for someone to say something awful/awesome enough that he responds to it here and then tag on a “can I ask you a question?” bellow. Actually can you just @ a commenter in this? @yotomoe or something but for Willis?
Honestly? Yes, overstepping.
We’re random people who read his webcomic. Unless you know him in meatspace or from a small online writers group or something, that is the extent of our relationship with him.
Best chance is to ask in a public setting like these comment sections or on Twitter or Patreon or whatever. But if he’s closed off his DMs, that’s a pretty clear sign that he doesn’t want to be bothered by random people like us sending him DMs out of nowhere. I can’t speak for why Willis in particular would do that, but in my experience, you never know which of the random people on the internet might become a threat to you or your privacy or your time. Or maybe he’s high profile enough that if he spent the time to acknowledge and respond to every fan’s message, he’d have no time for the things he wants to do, like making comics.
And sure, you might know you’re a random fan who will be perfectly polite and safe. But he doesn’t know that, and if I were in his position I would not roll the dice on opening up DMs to one random fan. You might know your question would only take up a little bit of his time. But your question might be one of many just like it.
We read a webcomic that Willis writes. That’s all. He doesn’t know us any better than he knows some random person on the internet who’s never heard of him. If he’s closed off his DMs, that’s a pretty clear signal to not try to send him a private message. And if we try to contact him privately despite that clear signal, that’s rude at best and a little bit creepy.
Is this also overstepping?
Like, a lot of people who aren’t actually Willis seem to have answered, and you’re calling him creepy now on top of it. Kinda sus.
The answers before me mostly seem to say “here’s a couple of things you can try to do to get around the lack of contact info”. My point of view is that it’s a little creepy, and at best only rude, to message someone privately if they’ve taken steps to avoid giving out their contact info. Willis has been online long enough, he knows how to have a “contact me” page on his website if he wants it. Even if you have a mutual friend with the person making themselves hard to contact, it’s the difference between “mutual friend, can you give me their contact info” and “mutual friend, I would like to discuss xyz with this person, here’s how they can contact me if they’re interested”.
So yes, if Willis has taken steps to make himself harder to contact, I think it’s overstepping for someone to circumvent those and send a private message. No one had already posted something along these lines, so I felt I had something to contribute to this conversation, so I posted it. I don’t think that’s overstepping.
Besides, Willis reads the comments sections at least some of the time, and someone moderates it and I assume that person is either Willis himself or Willis can contact them for technical info. If Willis disagrees with me, and is interested enough in Yotomoe’s question, he has the email address associated with the post and can make contact.
Alright, it’s getting little funnier now.
Just wanna follow this up by saying I sent an ask to his tumblr and he replied. Perhaps I overstepped but he was col about it and if I did he didn’t make me feel like it
Awesome, I’m glad it worked out!
i actually saw this comment yesterday and so followed you on twitter so you could send a DM, but i guess you got sent to tumblr first
Awe you are TOO GOOD Willis!!!! 🥲
Thank you for being so supportive of fan works like this, that means so much.
This, to me, is a lot like when David Hyde Pierce came out. I can’t honestly say I saw it coming but it’s also unsurprising.
Dorothy: Yeah, this checks out. My charts back it up.
Joyce: You made a chart all about me?!
Dorothy: Please. I made charts about everyone.
Booster: Does your chart match MY chart?
Faz: Do your charts match MY chart?
Joe: They’d better NOT match MY chart if you know what’s good for you!
This strip is very apt for BFF Day.
“I’m shocked, shocked! Well, not that shocked.”
Also now I’ve written “shocked” out so much that the word looks wrong to me.
the second panel needs to be accompanied by a glass shattering sound
I’m glad Joyce is getting support from Dorothy and Sarah. That being said, is Joyce going to hide this from Becky? Or will Becky hear it from Dina and be upset Joyce didn’t tell her?
Joyce should now tell everyone but ask them not to tell Becky, just for symmetry. Then, at some point, there will be a simultaneous double-reveal where shocks will cancel each other and Joyce and Becky will be like my, all that secrecy was really stupid.
We are shocked, SHOCKED! Well, not that shocked.
Your winnings, sirs.
NICE.
Classic Joyce.
Does Joyce want to be looked at differently? I would have thought not…or maybe she wants her feelings validated by someone that isn’t her that this is a big deal. Well either way of course the others won’t look at her any differently as the Joyce they all know and love.
To quote Sarah, “This is one of those life events where I’m expected to match your exact level of shrill anxiety, isn’t it?”
I think she want’s people to say, “Autistic? You? No, never! That doctor’s full of it!” She wants to believe that she “passes” better than she perhaps does.
(No shade on passing, BTW. I do it all the time.)
Or try to, anyway.
Or, since it’s only a referral to get checked out, not an actual confirmation, she wants reassurance that she’s not autistic.
“Because change is easier to swallow than admitting this is who you’ve been all along.”
Ooooh, good call back. A+ comment. Have a gold star
yeah that’s how i felt too
Pffftt, not the first time I’ve seen a “you could be a LITTLE freaked out along with me!” moment, but it’s one of the more amusing ones
I read Sarah’s comment not as “yeah, this new information matches my understanding of how Joyce works” but as “yeah, this new piece of drama is exactly what I expected life to throw at me.”
I think you’re being too cynical regarding Sarah, she does care about Joyce even if she’s not good at showing that she does
Oh, I absolutely think she cares about her lil’ sis, and I also think she’s really bad at hiding it.
But I think her actual words are meant to convey general background annoyance with the universe.
Sarah is correct
https://i.imgur.com/DiwlIUO.png (NSFW)
ok I can’t believe I almost forgot to include this alternate ending.
I think you meant you forgot to include the true ending.
Ahh, the payoff we’ve all been waiting for. Excellent.
We unlocked the good ending!
Joyce: Why can’t you accept I’m completely different?
Dorothy: Because who you were was our friend that we love?
– Two conversations happening past one another
Three conversations.
Sarah: “Because you’re not. You just found out a new label for it.”
but think of the scholarships!!!
“Is anyone surprised by this? Anyone? … Anyone at all.”
i am a little but i’ve never met many ppl like joyce irl and all of my autistic friends online already know and introduce themselves as ND
Is she worried about rejection, or does she actually want ppl to treat her /better/’nicer’ or so/ease up on her after all the “i’m an atheist now, god sucks and everyone else who believes is a dumbass/just in a cult” attitude? Even if she doesn’t handle it well hopefully she won’t be like “I’m autistic, I should get a pass” or so
That is one hell of a leap based on nothing in this strip.
lmao what
She just wants people to be as freaked out as her. Or assure her that the doctor is wrong. Preferably while being as freaked out as her.
Well… The last three or so comics have been stressful to read the comments for.
I was bingning Housepets! so I havn’t read anything since friday, so I got this all in a single burst.
Autism is a complicated topic, most of all because it is a spectrum. Honestly, Autism Diegnosis Criteria tends to be just a list of general ND traits, most of which can also be other things. This is why it’s complicated to bet a propper diegnosis, because people have different traits. It’s just like medical diegnosis, somone has a fever but that doesn’t make it obvious where it’s from.
I grew up not getting the propper diegnosis, and I got a lot. ADD, ADHD, finaly autism, and many others between that I don’t actualy remember or know. My mom didn’t settle on those because she knew they wern’t correct, and honestly that’s probebly the best thing she’s ever done for me, no mater how stressful it might have been.
I didn’t get the autism diegnosis until Highschool, because all of my symptoms could be explained by other ND things. Everything from Tantrums to Stimming.
In any case, this is to say, I see it.
It’s just a label, Joyce. You’re still you. But maybe you can now understand you a bit better.
Joyce is havin’ a time of it. Good thing she can’t read the comments.
Can you imagine if we all had internet people commenting on every moment of our lives and we knew about it? That would be awful!
Ooh let’s make it even worse. Could you imagine if internet people commented on every single moment of your life, except they only got to see it play out 6 seconds at a time, once every 24 hours? Imagine being aware of that.
I think binge reading most of the series has made me more forgiving of some of the characters’ actions and I’m very thankful for it.
How do I find time to read the hundreds of posts commenting on every few seconds so that I can use their analysis to figure out what’s going on and how to handle the crisis I’m going to be in 6 seconds from now?
One label I’ve always liked is “gloriously weird”.
(See, e.g.:
https://comicskingdom.com/mark-trail/2022-06-08 )
For a healthy(?) exploration of mental/neurological/psychological diversity, I heartily recommend the new rebooted Mark Trail, by badasse STEM engineer Jules Rivera (http://julesrivera.com/)
Mark Trail’s a total animal nerd, still, true, but he’s also a veteran who lives with PTSD and auditory hallucinations. (He talks with animals and they talk back, sometimes during his business meetings and in front of clients. But only he can hear them.)
He’s also a freelancer in the gig economy trying (clumsily) to make it in this strange new world of social media and self-marketing, something many of us can relate to.
Plus, the series has got gender-nonbinary adventure nature photographer Kelly Welly, bisexual small-business eco-trepreneur Cherry Trail, and lots of other rad nerd ladies, so that’s awesome.
Oh, and Mark’s got a gift for destruction.
For free archives, start here:
https://v7.comicskingdom.net/comics/mark-trail/2020-10-12/?widgetId=570
And just binge, binge, binge.
I don’t get the anxiety. Being diagnosed with a condition doesn’t give you the condition. It doesn’t change who you are, it just potentially gives you more options for coping with yourself.
Normally, yes, but we are talking about Joyce who had her world turned upside down several times recently. She really doesn’t want MORE stress coming from changes, especially considering how autistic people apparently don’t deal well with changes.
Implying anxiety comes from a place of rational reasoning
Perhaps you meant “logical” but “rational” just basically means understandable. And while sometimes people need help finding it there’s often an understandable cause for their anxiety. I was just looking for a frame of reference in which I might at least vaguely understand.
Ah, I see. Those two words tend to get used interchangeably, so I sorta forgot the distinction. Thanks for the reminder.
I didn’t have the anxiety, more relief because I had many ND friends and existing understanding of Autism and the social model of disability, but I do understand it. I actually had a lot of grief to process.
Like, this is new information to Joyce and it could potentially shift how she sees her entire life. Through in the uncertainty around whether she’s Autistic or CPTSD, and that’s plenty to be overwhelmed by. Plus she straight up does not have a good time when it comes to change or big new information and isn’t in the best space to deal with it right now.
It’d likely take a few days to even process the information.
*throw
Yes, but the only ND person Joyce knows is Dina, and not that well. So for her it’s a bombshell.
And its even possible that Joyce doesn’t know she’s autistic.
I mean, Dina does act ‘different’ (as joyce says, like a ‘robot’) but given how sheltered Joyce’s home life was, she might not even recognize that she is, chalking up her differences to her ethnic background or upbringing instead. (Well, assume she actually is…Willis has said she hasn’t been diagnosed)
True, however suddenly having a label does make you hyper-aware of yourself. It’s easy to start second-guessing whether you have other symptoms or traits you masked or never noticed before.
Besides, anxiety is irrational. You can’t always logic your way out of an emotional response.
To an extent you have to acknowledge it and accept that other people will be acknowledging it as a truth about you. A truth that they will interpret in their own way and may consider to have power and leverage over the other aspects of your identity.
You can see that as giving up power over your own self or weakening your defences on your quirks and personality. Those times when you aren’t synchronised with what someone else wants you to be or with a group they might bring this up and point to other members with that condition and how they should be handled to bring them in line as a helpful resolution.
It doesn’t matter how fair legitimate or true that turns out to be, it is intimidating and not something that can easily be taken back.
It’s also possible that someone who has been trying to ignore the possibility of having autism or a similar ND condition would actively have avoided learning about it and have a fuzzy idea based on the most prevalent depictions of it in fiction, and in the most out their attitudes from other people, perhaps built up like a trail of crumbs over decades (which means some of the ideas will be very outdated).
If you weren’t diagnosed as a child, or if people tried to diagnose you without tipping you off then there are probably attitudes at home, or a whole bunch of interactions and certain looks you got from close family that you all of a sudden have to re-assess too.
Thanks. That gives it at least a reasonable context for me.
As someone with anxiety, it’s often the case that no amount of rational thought will fix the irrational fear that everything is ruined forever.
It comes from the same place as Joyce’s initial resistance to evolution.
The fact isn’t the problem to her.
The fact’s implications for her world view ans her mental place in the world is the problem.
Being diagnosed changes everything, even though everything stays the same. It’s okay to be afraid.
Yes, exactly!!
Getting diagnosed doesn’t change who you are, rather it just means you had it all along. But there are a lot of misconceptions and social stigma from other people about autism. And for me at least, getting diagnosed means I’ve been looking back on a lot of my life and realizing just how much of the way I behave and do things has been due to having an autistic brain, rather than a neurotypical one.
So yeah, telling other people, even people who you’re close to like friends or family, that you’re autistic can change how they view you and treat you, and finding out that you’re autistic definitely can change how you view yourself too.
Finally, my collection of Joyce faces is now complete.
Oh yea, that’s soem internalised ableism, especially juxtaposed with the robot comment, Joyce now has to contend with all that thinking directed at herself.
Sucks how the first person you gotta get past is yourself before you can protect yourself from ableism everywhere else
Joyce HAS stopped obsessing over what people will think of her taking birth control pills, so … progess?
After all those talks with Jennifer about friends who keep treating you one way without acknowledging that you’ve changed, I’m sure Joyce isn’t exactly happy to be told that they will continue to see her the way they always have. Joyce wants things to change. This will probably make her wants to get away from her friends.
Except this isn’t a change in Joyce – it’s a new label on the Joyce they already know. Should they change how they treat Joyce based on the label?
I mean she doesn’t want to be treated the same at all.
She does want them to treat her differently because of her newfound atheism and other growth over the last semester. I don’t think she wants being diagnosed with autism to make them treat her differently.
Joyce literally has not changed, it’s pretty much been her the whole time she just knows now that she’s possibly autistic which explains how she operates.
at the very least Joyce has ADHD which is like a sibling of autism with some overlap.
Once again reaffirming that the “skeptical” crowd will not be engaged in good faith, because they’ve already proven they can’t behave themselves. If you can’t let others talk about themselves without saying “but actually” or “this seems far-fetched”, you don’t deserve a place at the table, and I kindly invite you to go do something more in line with your level of maturity, such as eating glue or shitting yourself and crying about it.
https://genius.com/5274031
“There’s only one thing that I know how to do well
And I’ve often been told that you only can do
What you know how to do well
And that’s be you
Be what you’re like
Be like yourself
And so I’m having a wonderful time
But I’d rather be whistling in the dark.”
I wish there was a Like system here. One of my favourite TMBG songs. And appropriate…
Thanks, Tenzhi!
Such happy cheerful sounding songs, as long as you don’t examine the lyrics too closely. https://youtu.be/q2bo_u_YmW8
I don’t like where this is going. I think Joyce’s background is complicated enough, she doesn’t need a brain diagnose on top of that. Autism kinda shifts the blame for her problems from her family being f**ked up to her being born somehow “wrong”.
Haha nope. You’re just plain wrong. Two things can be simultaneously true about a person and neither one replaces the other. “Blame” is a really stupid concept to being into this.
Taffy, it sounds like the conversation so far has been really frustrating and irritating to you. Is there something we can do to support you?
I want to respect how you feel, however that might be. You’ve sounded pretty ticked off for a while now, and that’s 100% fine. But calling folks stupid might make the conversation even more grating and less welcoming than it is already, and I wasn’t sure whether that was your intention.
Just a thought.
Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant to write, ‘calling folks’s *words* “stupid”…’.
Oh, it’s absolutely my intention to diminish certain words and make the conversation less welcoming to certain lines of thought, because those words and ideas have absolutely no place in any useful conversation about a topic like this. If somebody feels less comfortable saying certain (very shitty) things, then that’s a good thing, actually, because it gives them the opportunity to listen instead, and if they take it personally it’s not my failing to deal with or my emotional state to coddle.
Another passing thought, if somebody’s ignorant and sees one person being less than perfectly polite and welcoming about that ignorance, and they decide to take it as some personal slight and Get Worse, I’m not optimistic that they were likely to be decent in the first place, so it’s no great loss.
Thank you for clarifying, Taffy. I appreciate knowing how you feel, and I appreciate you for making the effort to explain it to me.
Kaffeeteria, I really hear what you’re saying, here.
When I used to be more personally active in the neurodiversity community, we used to hear a lot of talk from the so-called “experts” about whose “fault” neurodevelopmental differences were.
“Refrigerator moms,” etc. There still is those kinds of blinders, in the medical discourse, and especially in more religious contexts.
So no matter how wrong that mindset of blame is, a person living with a neurodevelopmental difference or condition might still pick up some of that sense of “blame” by osmosis.
So I do hear what you’re saying — how scary it can be, to have a new diagnosis of a lifelong way of being on top of PTSD and anxiety and recovery and so much more. I think the folks in the chat are more focused though on how it can also be liberating to find a context and community that makes one’s “quirks” feel somehow more “normal”. And might just unlock some new potential and self-confidence, within that new context.
So a diagnosis can be a mixed blessing, sometimes.
Uh, speaking as an autistic person, NO.
HELL NO.
I think there could be the perception of this by uninformed observers, but the diagnosis might help her in other ways too! There may be resources or support for some of her struggles, which doesn’t really exist for her unique fundie upbringing and the damage it caused.
“Wait until she realize I’m also leaving soon” — Dorothy
Cue the confetti
So, uh, something I should point out: Developmental disability is highly stigmatized in most cults and extremist groups – much more than in mainstream society. The extremist cult-like group I was raised in full on believed in eugenics. “I’m not saying we should kill them all but the N***s weren’t wrong about everything. They shouldn’t reproduce.” Is something I heard from my parents at many a dinner conversation.
There are evangelical cults that full on believe autism is demons and should be removed by what amounts to torture.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that stigma is the source of Joyce’s freakout here. I feel like we’re about to understand new levels of awful about her upbringing.
I am so sorry you had to deal with that. How awful. How terrible. I am so sorry.
Chalk it up to another instance of ‘here’s a normal story from my childhood that’s appropriate for the point but not too awful… Wait why is everyone looking at me like that?”
By which I mean: I’m not going for pity when I relay stuff like this. Just more pointing out parallels between my authoritarian right wing extremist prepper upbringing with Joyce’s. But it’s not at all uncommon for people to react this way to stuff that was very normalized for me. The new levels of awful was around the ways these groups tend to react if you deviate from norm, not referring to my dinner conversation (which to me was bad but not like new levels of awful bad, just more ordinarily messed up beliefs bad, if that makes sense).
I get what she’s coming from because I lived a similar trajectory is my point. But also that having been raised in extremism completely blows up any calibration of normal you might try to build.
Not pity. Not from me, at least.
Empathy.
Concern.
Care.
Support.
Like if it makes sense I get uncomfortable when people react this intensely to something that I’ve shared that to me was kind of background radiation? Not that those beliefs and the impact of that indoctrination is normal but it was very normalized to me, so an intense reaction is kind of awkward to me an “oh, wait, that’s not within bounds of normal for a right wing leaning upbringing. Guess I gotta recalibrate again.”
But at the same time I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to have an intense reaction to it because having those kinds of conversations about disability (or gay people or women’s rights or etc) was just a dinnertime conversation at the time. It wasn’t something that I tend to think of as traumatic at all.
Which is a big part of why and how I relate so hard to Joyce. Like it’s all fucked up, everywhere you look, all the way down.
& I don’t mean this as a criticism of you Laura at all. More that it’s uncomfortable and a bit frustrating to realize, yet again, my childhood was fucked up in another way I haven’t considered. If that makes sense and all.
OK, Wow — I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to cause discomfort. I do regret and apologize for making you feel uncomfortable. Thank you for letting me know how you feel.
Take good care.
And thank you for that clarification, too.
:-\ :-/ 
As Sarah said, “It’s just trauma stacked on top of trauma.”
It’s turtles all the way down.
And like I don’t necessarily want you to stop reacting authentically, because it’s important to realize that it was fucked up, if that makes sense? Just more of a damn it, here we go again.
ischemgeek – different particulars, but I have a friend who also had an incredibly fucked-up childhood, and this sort of thing used to happen all the time – they would refer to some act of physical abuse, or mention a thing their parents regularly told them that any rational person would consider verbal abuse, and be surprised, sometimes upset when we universally reacted with shock and horror.
It was a good thing for this friend to GET that feedback, and it helped get them to a point where they are now living in a different state with safe people and minimal-to-no contact with the abusive family, thank fucking god. But it was a fine line to walk, trying to convey “this awful thing you’re being told about yourself isn’t true” or “I know you love your sibling but they are are NOT SAFE when they keep giving your new contact info to your physically violent father despite being asked not to do that”, stuff they desperately, desperately needed to hear, and weren’t hearing from anyone else, while also not overwhelming them with these negative reactions that made them feel defensive, or caused them to shut down.
It’s hard all around, and hardest for the person who not only suffered that fucked-up childhood, but is burdened with having to do the work of untangling it all.
Anyway, I’m sorry you have to carry all that, and I recognize how mentally, emotionally, and spiritually exhausting it must be.
@Cerusee – absolutely all of this. It comes down to not all discomfort is harmful and I prefer for folks not to prioritize comfort over wellbeing even if it makes me feel awkward or frustrated or uncomfortable sometimes.
So like if it seems I don’t appreciate just how messed up something is, absolutely react authentically because I probably need to know even if it’s uncomfortable.
Thank you both.
“That story took a turn real fast” is one I hear a lot from my partner when I tell stories of my childhood/early adulthood.
I am incredibly sorry that happened to you.
vibes, man. vibes.
SO SORRY ISCHEMGEEK, THIS IS ALL SO AWFUL!!!!
So much INJUSTICE, to much UGLINESS to this world.
Why is it like this? Why must be like this?
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I don’t hear a sound……
Silent faces in the ground……
The quiet screams, but I refuse to listen…..
If there is a hell,
I’m sure this is how it smells.
Wish this were a dream, but no, it isn’t.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_p-nhZXLg
Aw, guys! This is one of those important Joyce life events where you have to take it as seriously as she does, c’mon. It’s a big change, refusing to even go ‘wow that’s wild joyce’ for a second might come across as minimizing the shock she’s in.
I am with Sarah on this, this incredibly checks out.
I mean ‘yeah that checks out’ and ‘wait does that mean you WEREN’T diagnosed before?’ were basically the reactions I got from my friends lol.
It may not be a particularly helpful reaction but it’s a totally realistic one!
This. Exactly this is how my friends reacted to my diagnosis too. It was one of the best things when they said, “yup, makes sense.” And if anything relationships improved because now we all had a filter and context for some of my weirdness. He’ll it made me fell less like a flawed asshole when I mistook social situations.
Reactions among my friends & family, in order:
“One of us! One of us!” (An autistic friend)
“OH THANK GOD YOU FIGURED IT OUT I was wondering how to tell you without being rude.” (My cousin who’s an NP)
“You mean you don’t already know? Mom & dad have been talking about it since you were like in middle school. I thought you knew.” (My sibling)
“Wait, you’re not already?” X3
“You’re just finding this out now?!” X2
“That ABSOLUTELY tracks.”
And “Huh. … HUH. I was a little surprised but the more I think about it the more it makes sense how good you and [my autistic cousin] get along. You’re on the same wavelength, that explains it.”
(oh and my father basically going “ABSOLUTELY NOT. No way. No how. No, you can’t have it because if you have if I have it. Waitaminute. DO I have it?” over about 3 months as he learned more about autism)
Ah yes the family ‘waitaminute’!
[My mother answered most of the pediatric screening questions with ‘no more than the rest of the family’, which was both completely true and wildly misinterpreted.]
Yeahhhh… Doesn’t just happen with autism My folks missed me & my hyperomobility because in a family where literally everyone’s beighton score is >4 being able to bend your knees back 15° and touch your thumbs to your forearms and walk on the top of your feet isn’t weird.
Took my nibling developing epilepsy and the neurologist realizing kid’s made of rubber and has a Marfanoid build for us to start putting together bite issues and velvety soft skin and stretchy skin and stretch marks galore and myopia and hyperomobility and hindfoot valgus deformities etc and start realizing we might all have EDS.
Yeah, I was the Dad in that scenario. Basically, I was even more impacted than my son, and once he got the diagnosis, I literally had this moment of, “this doesn’t make sense, he’s not nearly as big a social misfit as I wa……..
oh.
ooooh…
Oooooooooooooooooh”
The most important thing is getting the proper treatment. Thankfully Joyce has a good support system with her friendsl.
Yeah! She has Dorothy to drag her to the appointments she books for her! And Sarah to give her a brash kick in the butt when she needs one! And Becky, for… uh… not telling anything to and keeping her pigeonholed in her old role in her life!
Maybe her friends aren’t the greatest support system…
At least she has Joe to lean on?
I’d say Jennifer is the most likely to “drag her to the appointments she books for her”, what with her having just done exactly that.
Jennifer offered to take Joyce to urgent care after noticing her misery.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2022/comic/book-12/04-dont-stop-billie-ving/appointment-2/
Dorothy booked the optometrist appointment for Joyce, then all but physically dragged her there.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2020/comic/book-11/02-look-straight-ahead/blackboards/
(I can’t add a third link without getting caught in the spam filter, but the comic title is “Saunter”.)
“You could at least admit this is SOMEWHAT of a surprise???”
“Nope, incredibly on-brand. Congrats.”
Whoever said Dorothy is the mom friend really really nailed it. “You’re still you no matter what a label says, Joyce, and whether you have that label or not. And we like you!” So much momming.
Jeez Joyce, calm down. You just have high functioning Autism. You’re treating this as if you’ve discovered you have a Gluten allergy and now you have to dismantle your entire life all because of a new box of knock off triscuits.
Hey ! Just so you’re aware terms like “high functioning” and “low functioning” are misnomers and aren’t really used by autistic people nowadays. Some people have traits that make it harder to gel into a society that was made for only neurotypical people, and some others are able to “hide” their autism on the day to day, but it doesn’t mean one is better “functioning” than the other!
Is there a preferred terminology? I’ve seen “[neurotypical] passing” bandied about.
when u have autism AND celiac disease ;_____;
What does it say about a person if their first thought on reading your comment is “How long until people start calling autism a fad diet”?
LMAO
Joyce hasn’t yet realized that finding out youre autistic means realizing you’re not alone and there’s tons of people who interact with the world the exact same way you do. Finally realizing there was a word and an entire community for what I thought was just me failing to be a person helped me so much
To be fair, I can see like-minded doctors seeing signs of mental disabilities in Ross MacIntyre with how he came off in more neurotypical settings. Most likely, it had to do with never caring enough to mature past the level of a selfish toddler whose identity as a man and a father was a charade, which was enough for him.
I’m pretty sure Joyce just is neurotic while dealing with PTSD is all.
it’s moments like this that’s nice to remind EVERYONE, but mostly young people that you will never have everything figured out. you may THINK you have everything figured out, but that’s when life throws you a curveball.
i was thinking this in particular when the second semester started, all the characters seemed like they had it together, or at least acted like they did (Jennifer in particular). which is extremely funny for a group of 18-19 yo’s. I’m excited to see these characters explore the wonders and horrors of early adulthood
This makes me really nervous about my everything-is-mostly-going-smoothly life.
HRSA community mental health resources for LGBTQIA2-S+ youth, BTW:
https://www.hrsa.gov/behavioral-health/mental-health-resources-lgbtqi-plus
They have a webinar coming up soon. Should be real good.
HRSA, LGBTQIA2-S+, BTW….
so many letters……
it’s like the world is sick and down, and we’re all doing our best to feed it some nice alphabet soup.
I hope the world feels better.
I want to make it better, too.
It is rather hard to digest alphabet soup, if your micro-biome is broken.
What if an Alien Parasite such as myself can help fix it, like good bacteria?
I would very much like that.
🥹🥹🥹
*I don’t know what this song is called, but I found it one day and it just feels right here*
Where there is life, there is hope.
— Ai, Pokemon Movie 01
Sorry, habit! I need to slow down and spell out the abbreviations. But yes, some yummy alphabet soup would be perfect right about now.
I think you can make the world better. I have faith in our collective ability to make each other better.
“All will be well again, I know,” as the circle dance goes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trAhrMIx5_M
(All will be Wellerman?)
(That first vid has the dance but this recording is more sonorous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEHgNS2BYz0 )
Not right now, maybe not soon. But that hope is out there. I have to believe that, even if that belief in a livable future doesn’t work for everyone.
Glossary:
HRSA: United States Health Resources and Services Administration
LGBTQIA2-S+: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans, Queer, Questioning, Intersex, Asexual, Allies, Two Spirit, and More…
BTW: By the Way
Oh, I know what those mean, thanks anyway fam fam
It’s just that, I want to help this world…
But sometimes I get overwhelmed just thinking about all the hurt in it. REALLY overwhelmed.
I just want a way I can help that isn’t so self destructive, one where I can both help from the world and escape from it at the same time.
I bring up digestion and microbiome because that kind of stuff fascinates me.
I used to watch this movie, I can’t remember what it’s called, but it takes place inside the human body, kind of like fantastic voyage.
But it was also animated, all cool too, like the kind of CGI from Lego Bionacle.
It was a lot like Star Wars, where like these microscopic cyborg warriors had to find a cure for a global epidemic, where like the fate of not only the body but the whole human race was at stake, where Metabolism and blood cells was was like The Force, it was this whole other LIVING world, full of fantastic creatures, these warriors hiding and encountering each other in dark caves and stuff!!!!
And the weirdest part of this movie and why I like it so much?
It’s like, about a global epidemic – disease, something else that has taken SO MUCH from me. I can’t even count the number of people around the world I really admired that died because of COVID and other diseases, not to mention my own experiences with debilitating physical illnesses.
It was problem that was and is really real to me, and so many others, that took away people and things I love. But here I could like, face it in a DIGESTIBLE way. A way, an EXPERIENCE that was fun and cool.
It was like a way I can face a problem with the cruel cruel world and escape from it too.
I love that. I LOVE THAT SO SO MUCH.
Hmm. Was it “A Wind In The Door”, by Madeleine L’Engle? That sounds a bit like what you’re describing.
I’m so sorry that the pandemic has been so hard on you, NG. It’s awful how much it has taken from us.
“I just want a way I can help that isn’t so self destructive, one where I can both help from the world and escape from it at the same time.”
It sounds like you’re expressing compassion fatigue, what I call “toxic empathy”. I think of that old Star Trek episode, “The Empath,” as a cautionary tale: ” Run away, Gem! Don’t place the value of others’ survival over your own! ‘She who heals and runs away lives to heal another day.’ ‘Discretion is the better part of valor.’ ‘An advanced healer uses her advanced experience to avoid needing to use her advanced skill.’ ‘No heroes, no machos, no martyrs.’ ‘Martyr c’est pourrir un peu.’ ‘Adjust your own oxygen mask before assisting others.’ ” …And so forth. Exact opposite message from what Roddenberry and the writers wanted the viewer to draw from that episode.
We have to preserve our own wellbeing first. That includes taking breaks. Stepping back to reassess. That includes finding balance.
I wish you well with it.
It’s been a very long day for Joyce. She should scream into a pillow or Joe’s chest or something after checking to make sure there’s no one within 1000 feet to assume that Joyce being exhausted and stressed is a direct insult to the core of her being.
I don’t really follow the last half of that.
Joyce’s friends have been relentlessly badgering her for several days, including when she openly said she was exhausted and in pain and needed people to leave her alone.
I didn’t understand the direct insult part. Sure they may have prioritized their own need above hers, as teenagers often do, but I don’t remember anyone being insulted that she was tired.
Sarah told Joyce she’d been over-valuing Joyce’s needs right after Joyce said that she wished people would get off her back, during a storyline where it was pretty explicit that Sarah knew the details of Joyce’s physical suffering from her periods.
Joyce repeatedly, explicitly said she was tired, taking a nap, in pain, her whole body hurt, etc. Like a dozen times, she said she had a headache, that she needed to lie down, that everything hurt? Most of Joyce in that storyline is Joyce trying to get some rest, and people intruding on her, and then criticizing her or telling her she’s an asshole for not reacting well to criticism and intrusive questions when she’s exhausted and in pain.
(Sarah’s speech also happened immediately after Dina, who climbed on top of Joyce while she was asleep, refused to leave after being asked to back off, then intensely interrogated her about her childhood physical abuse—because Dina wanted insight into Becky; Dina does not care about Joyce even a little bit—walked out of their shared dorm room implying that Joyce’s negative personality traits were the result of childhood abuse, which is a such an awful thing to say or even imply I cannot believe it’s mostly gone without comment.)
gonna screencap that first panel and wait til i get my results back from the doc so i have a more convenient way to express my diagnosis than words
Face included?
yeah face included
For real, literally everything about her screams this. Original version to!
I feel bad for Joyce. Her friends are not helping at all. I don’t know what definition of autism she’s thinking of, but it isn’t the likely-to-build-elaborate-things-well one, which does match her somewhat. My guess is she’s thinking of doomed-to-misinterpret-everyone. That’s why her friends confirming it is bad. Especially since it’s only been true in the past due to her upbringing and she’s been improving rapidly. I doubt she’s thinking of the violent-outburst-high-pitched-cooing one, or even unwilling-to-look-people-in-the-eyes, which aren’t her either.
Where did Dina go?
See what I wrote above about the different kinds of “autism”.
If you had trauma with this kind of thing, at least know that you are not alone
Yes, I saw, you did good. Usually your alien-parasite comments seem unrelated, but in recent days it’s clear where you’re coming from and you’ve been on point.
Me, no. In third grade the doctors gave me lots of tests and concluded I had a severe case of normality. Very amusing. It might come out different nowadays. I do know people who have been traumatized by a diagnosis of autism though. The trauma wouldn’t have happened (for them) if the definition of autism was narrower in scope and severity.
I get where you’re thinking, but….
Like, a system geared towards the average person is guaranteed to fail, period.
Like the US military designed cock-pits for fighter pilots based on the ‘average’ of each paramater for them such as arm length, height, etc.
The end result? Not a SINGLE pilot fit into the cockpits. Quite a pressing matter considering the ability to reach a button in time would be a matter of life and death.
Seeing how stupid this was, they commissioned inventors to create ADJUSTABLE cockpits that could be moved around to fit virtually ANY pilot.
This design lives on in adjustable seats in cars, a VERY important innovation.
Ergo the needs of ANY group, including neurodivergents, that need tools that they can use to help themselves and others help them, including communicative concepts.
You’re on the right track, but here’s what I think should ideally happen:
The concept of autism is broken down into pieces, pieces that correspond to particular quirks / disadvantages / powers to be proud of, like eye contact problems, social cue confusion, hyperfocus, etc.
This way, people could just piece them back together, like custom Lego brick structures, and they can choose for themselves what parts they want people to know most about them while not having them lumped in with a million other things they don’t want others to assume about them.
I know a lot of people around here use “autism” to describe themselves as a kind of pride and joy and content, and I DEFINITELY don’t want to take happy things away from innocent people but like….
I also don’t want it to be something where people like me don’t get as much attention or support just because we don’t want to identify with an all-or-nothing package deal.
It’s like, I don’t wanna feel left out of this just because I don’t feel like all my stripes don’t quite neatly fit under a nice, neat little 3 syllable word.
The way people use “autism” here, it’s common sense that it IS fluid, that you can never ever ever assume anything about ones who identify like that.
But unfortunately, that’s not the case in the majority of the rest of the world, a world where I myself have been a victim of systematic bigotry for identifying as autistic, and it almost fucking broke me.
I’m just slowly working into it yes, but if I ever want to identify comfortably as autistic here, it’s gonna be….
….tough, internally, awkward, weird, sorting it out, and with the world at large being the way it is….
if I ever want to comfortably identify as “autistic”, it’s likely I’ll inevitably have to be too different people, in two different places — a larger world out there where I have to hide it to be safe, and this community, where I can have people respect how I identify, what I want “autism” to mean for ME, just as much as they respect how I’m gender fluid.
If I ever identify as “autistic”, it would be MINE, MINE, and no one else could say for me what it means about me.
Like for instance, “autistic people being more likely to be into STEM”,
This is just the kind of assumptions, the things that GET ON MY FUCKING NERVES
I like STEM because I like STEM. It has NOTHING to do with my neurodivergence. And anyone who DARES tell me otherwise can eat a double-decker manure battery acid parasite spore sandwich with plutonium on top, I’ve FUCKING HAD IT WITH THE ASSUMPTIONS.
Sorry, I just really need that cathartic release right now.
Anyway, great talking to you Lucky Winner, you seem nice, I can tell what you say is coming from a place of compassion, even though it might not always seem like that.
(BTW if anyone tells me that my mutual agreement with you is because of my neurodivergence / “autism” “interfering with my reading of social cues”, that it makes me “wrong” somehow, I have a a thousand live parasite spores at the ready)
Good journey, Lucky. Cool name.
Thank you for taking the time to notice me. That means a lot. 🥹
*plays Demon Slayer End Theme on hacked muzak*
Glad to be of your acquaintance.
Dina probably didn’t go anywhere, she’s just behind that group of people coming out of a class
Did… Did Willis just do a Friends’ joke in the alt text xD?
The only unrealistic part of the autistic young woman’s experience here is Joyce even having a friend who says “That checks out” and not “no way I never would have guessed!!”
Unless Sarah is ALSO autistic which tbh would check out as well because as an Autistic Non Male Person i find her one of the most relatable characters in the comic, personally.
Backreading comments, I kind of want to add my thoughts.
I think Joyce getting a diagnosis here can actually help her a lot with her transition into changes and her anxiety over people not acknowledging she changed.
Because it’s a commonality between who she was before and who she is now that by being acknowledged is very likely to make ACTUAL changes easier to sort out. Like… Joyce is obsessed with the cartoons she grew up with and is a picky eater because she’s autistic, not because she’s Christian! She’s a peppy boundary ignoring ray of sunshine because she’s autistic, not because she’s Christian (although losing her faith is a very logical reason for the sunshine to be dampened for a while).
Like… there’s the half of her Joyceness that she’s shrugging off as she’s leaving the cult she grew up in, and there’s the half of her Joyceness that’s how her neurotype manifested, and I think it can help a lot to sort that out.