Based loosely off of "The Snow Queen", a story by Hans Christian Andersen, we see things take a different turn as the demons become central characters, and the side characters stick around. Yup, that's the only differences. Enjoy!
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A catchphrase is hardly restricted by the commonality of it’s usage. A surfer guy stereotype is still distinguished by saying, “dude,” as a catchphrase. Hell, even just, “catchphrase,” was recently effectively deployed as a catchphrase (to humourous effect, to be sure). A catchphrase is more identifiably so based on the frequency of use and connectedness to the identity of a particular person.
All that said, I otherwise agree that, “come on,” isn’t so distinctively pronounced with Joe that it stands out as a characteristic marker. However, I am *not* willing to do the legwork of OCR’ing the comic text, attributing each bubble, and then running frequency analysis to mathematically determine if it is or isn’t in fact a statistically significant identifier of Joe’s. Though it certainly could be done.
I would very much like my lover to be my friend. I don’t think I could marry a girl who won’t eat goldfish crackers and watch anime with me in my underwear.
Most people have more than one pair. Although if you’re close enough in size, I suppose you could wear each others’ when you’re feeling a little kinky.
I began my relationship with my now-husband by telling him I didn’t feel the same way about him but was happy to get to know him better as a friend. And then once I did that I realized I did feel the same way.
People underestimate the potential of the Friend Zone! Obviously people should not pursue friendship with the sole intention of hoping they can turn a “no” into a “yes” with enough time and persistence, but many people (possibly especially women?) kind of need people to start in the Friend Zone before achieving “romantic partner” status.
Considering Joyce’s first and only prior date with Joe, and his past behavior, I wouldn’t be surprised that even if she does have feelings for him she’d want to take it slow due to residual wariness about whether or not he’s really changed.
Or also: could be that while she has clearly shown some subconscious physical attraction to him, she’s never thought about anything beyond that (at least not since before that terrible date) and feels good about possibly exploring this but wants to take some time to figure out how she really feels first.
Uhhh… that’s a hand, genius. Jeez, look at Mr. Oblivious over here. Next your gonna tell me you don’t understand basic common place idioms. I know I do.
It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex. He is (or was early on, more accurately) regularly hitting on women. But all the attempts we see involve him getting shot down, usually very emphatically (Sarah, Rachel). The only successes we actually know about were either started by the woman (Malaya, Liz) or started off screen so we don’t know what happened (Roz, Penny).
We’ve never seen him successfully hit on anyone, though it’s implied he’s successful pretty often. (Up to quite recently, with Danny’s comment about being sexiled again.)
We’ve also never seen him fail with someone who didn’t reject him at once – other than that first date with Joyce.
“It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex.”
Yeah, im a bit scared that Joe and Joyce are going to get close to having sex and bam, Joe confesses its all been a lie and he’s only had sex with 2 people.
Joe’s good points are his confidence and straight talk, no lies, no manipulation. And if thats all been bullshit, then jeebus, thats the worst twist ever.
Honestly, that hits me as pretty realistic.
One of my acquaintances in college, a friend of one of my male friends, acted very much like Joe, hitting on people at random, often in a crass fashion, and hooting about this sexual prowess. This included, while on a trip to the grocery store, holding up a six-inch summer sausage and informing me that it was equivalent to what he was packing.
I learned from our mutual friend that this attitude stemmed from a single sexual experience he’d had his first week in college. Basically, he lost his virginity and then started acting like he was a player.
It took a few years, but eventually he got over trying to convince everyone he was a sex god or whatever and settled into a better attitude in general and actually ended up being kind of a cool guy (albeit still fairly crass). I believe he ended up marrying his first serious girlfriend, and last I heard remains happily so with at least one kid.
Yeah, it is plausible. Its just shitty from the perspective of yet another male charactet in DoA is just a weenus.
Becky got a bunch of her shit figured out and is confident to the max, a horn dog, and finally did it with Dina. Thought Joe might get some shit figured aout and be a confident to the max horndog who maybe fall for Joyce. But there have been weird little clues pointing to a “surprise! This guy sucks too” type twist.
Especially since one rederming quality of joe has been hus “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code.
If Joe has been lying this whole time, constantly breaking his code, that would be like finding hindreds of bullet riddled criminals buried in the bat cave.
But if a guy hates joe or hates batman, that would be the way to write it.
I’ve got no idea what you’re even talking about.
The whole damn point of Joe is that he was shit, but he’s gotten better. Yeah, he’s been playing up his horndog image, even though he really is a horndog. We’ve known that for a long time now. He talked to Danny about it, after the list blew up.
He’s never had a “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code. I don’t even know where that comes from. No cheating, yes. But mostly by not letting himself get in a relationship he could cheat it, because he “knew” he would.
I don’t think there’s any “this guy sucks too” twist coming. Or at least not in ways that we didn’t already know he sucked and that he’s been trying to improve.
Not sure how you got “ another male character in DoA is just a weenus” from the idea that he may have had less sex than he’s claimed? That kind of seems like a personal judgement?
Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with. Yes lots of people (especially other men) do judge men by that, and you seem to possibly be one of them, but if so, that’s kind of…your own issue? Not commentary the comic is making. At all.
Aren’t you also the person who said in yesterdays comments that you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex? Again, respectfully, it seems like you may have some personal hang ups about how you see other people and how they might see you in relation to this stuff that you are projecting onto the comic. Because I don’t think anyone else here is reading it that way (or at least most of us aren’t).
“Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with”
But confidence/strength could be measured by finding out Joe has been constantly lying about who he really is.
Its not about numbers. Becky is over the top confident and strong. Shes only had sex with Dina and maybe one other.
“you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex?”
Is there an example of a casual sex relationship involving a main character that shown in a positive light?
Danny/dorothy? 4 years, so nope.
Dorothy/walky? Started out that waym but quickly devolved into the whole “i love you” bit, break up, plus dorothy pity fucking him, so no.
Walky/amber? Garbage roof is not positive portrayal, so, no.
Walky / lucy? Nope
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but it felt like it was being presented that he’s doing it only cause he cant be in the relationship with the one he loves. Like it was second place. Id have to re-read.
Becky/dina? No. Becky nearly died thinking dina was turned on by Joe and not her.
Sal/Jason: sex without feelings of love, but only to get better grades and an abuse of authority.
Danny/sal? Nope
Ruth/Jennifer? Suicide pacts are the opposite of casual
Ruth/newspaper editor? Started out being a casual sex encounter, and ruth bailed. For reasons?
Ruth/jason? Taking your bartender home could have qualified. But ruth made it into another weird ruth thing. No.
Jennifer/asher? No. Also asher might be decieving her.
Joe/roz: political hit job isnt very casual.
Think joe and someone, maybe malaya, might have had a casual moment. That might be the only one.
Roz was handing out lube and condoms at one point. But she doesnt get much face time and i dont remember seeing any of her relationships with anyone. Except the sex tape/political hit job.
I cant think of any other relationships that hapoened on screen.
So maybe just the one with Joe/malaya, but if Joe is a huge liar all this time, kinda takes away a big chunk of it being portrayed in a positive light.
Sal/jason was casual but objectively unethical. Jason got fired.
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but i seem to remember him saying it was his second place choice at one point cause he coukdnt be with the one he loved.
Did i miss any examples of casual sex being portrayed positively?
I’ll give you that on the lying point, but given the society we exist in, it’s a lie I think many women, myself included, might be a bit more forgiving of than others. Especially for a character like Joe whose entire earlier persona seemed heavily shaped by toxic masculinity but is now trying to change.
If he admits he was exaggerating at some point it wouldn’t be a shock and would be another moment of character growth. I can’t speak for all women but personally I respect a person who is able to admit they weren’t being honest before because they were concerned about public appearances, but want to start being honest going forward.
And for someone like Joyce I doubt it would be a problem, more likely a relief if he admitted he was less experienced than he’d originally claimed, since being with a partner who has a lot more experience would possibly cause some nervousness in someone like Joyce who has no experience and until recently believed pre-martial sex got you sent to a place of eternal torment. I dunno what her views are on it now but it’s like still going to take her time to become comfortable with the idea of physical intimacy given her upbringing.
As for the other points, I addressed all that in yesterdays comments already.
Didn’t he already imply that when he confessed to Danny that he’s never actually been in a threesome? IIRC he admitted that he doesn’t get anywhere near the action that he claims to get.
I mean, depending on what statistics you go by, the average number of sexual partners for people might be anywhere from 6 to 24 and only about 10 to 20% of people have been in a threesome.
It doesnt actually take a lot to get into the “busy” half of the bell curve.
Oh well. The rate time moves in this comic we might find out by 2030.
I learned ‘how to be a man’ from my dad, even though that turned out to be a poor fit for who I actually am. Joe may be in a similar situation only about 45 years earlier than me.
well, as far as we know this is his first actual time he’s caught feelings (as the kids say) as opposed to just a quick hookup (tho tbh i’m surprised when he was younger it hasn’t been an issue with jealous girls unless he was openly saying he wanted to just get in their pants from the start lol)
If there is one thing Joe has always made clear, it is that things have always casual and not serious because he didn’t do vulnerability and vulnerable feelings.
I think Dorothy’s question is pretty damn valid given that literally right at this moment Joe is being incapable of being friends with a woman. He hasn’t sexually objectified Joyce, but he definitely does not want to be friends with her either.
I think her last real interaction with him was his “completely giving up” stage late last semester where he was intentionally being really gross and misogynistic and more than a little nihilistic.
Obviously, Joe’s been way different since then, but she hasn’t really had an opportunity to see that, or what led to that in the first place.
If it was revealed that a guy I knew kept a list of women at the university we attended ranked by fuckability, I would take that very personally. I get pretty offended when people view me as fuckstock.
So IS Joe capable of being friends with a woman? We have yet to see any evidence in his favor. Joyce befriended him, semi-forcibly, but as soon as it worked he stopped wanting to be friends with Joyce and started feeling the romance.
Cards on the table, I ship Joyce and Joe pretty hard, and I think in a world where they understand themselves a little better and aren’t so frightened of parts of themselves because of the terrible behavior of their respective parents, they’d make a great couple. They are SO cute together.
But they’re also both still recovering misogynists. Joyce has absolutely no sense of personal boundaries. Joe is so terrified he’s going to become a cheater that he might make it true. Joyce has some SERIOUS shame to work through about sex as a recovering Christian woman, not to mention trauma from an attempted rape, and Joe has absolutely no experience with sensitivity or care or love when it comes to sex, so obviously there are some nuclear incidents waiting to Occur. While I am SUPER into this plotline, I am also wincing hard in anticipation of a zero-survivors landing.
i’d assume even without it being joe she wouldn’t necessarily wanting someone to butt into their lunch time/hangout considering she was feeling upset/underappreciated after joyce ‘begged’ her to spend more time together or so
True, she’s built up quite a bit of irritation at Joyce that she might be letting loose on this “jock himbo” she’s already disliked for years. I wonder if he made some nasty passes at her or maybe it was The List.
If he ever did, it’d have been pre-comic. I kinda get the impression she’s been off-limits to him for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being Joe is not a guy who’d make a pass at his best friend’s ex of a longterm relationship. Like, he doesn’t approve of cheating, and he doesn’t seem keen on “bro-code” violations, either, and that’d definitely be one.
Beyond that, she also knows him, or at least did, and she saw through a lot of his act before, even if I think Joyce has a more keen understanding of Joe these days. I don’t really feel like he’d even attempt it on her.
But as his best friend’s girlfriend during high school, even if she was off-limits, she’s probably seen him at his worst. Not directed at her, but at every other attractive girl she knew.
Remember, she dated Danny for a while, and he is Joe’s best friend.
Notice how Dorothy and Joe have never been shown as friends? How much do you want to bet that Joe essentially went “This is a girl I have no chance or interest in having sex with, therefore she is irrelevant to me”
From her one line I’d say that she was more mad at Joe. I’d imagine that she would not trust Joe with Joyce at all, though I’m guessing that she was not aware that they went on a date previously.
That’s my guess, too. Dorothy probably thinks Joe’s playing some game to get into Joyce’s pants. She hasn’t been around to see New Joe, so she has no reason to trust his sincerity.
Maybe that’s why Joe and Amber’s stories came together, so she can corroborate his character growth as an uninvolved third party Dorothy would trust. She knows.
I think this is Joyce testing her confidence a bit. No doubt she enjoys knowing exactly what’s going on and for once not being the last horse to cross the finish line, but that handhold in the last panel feels like reassurance to me. Like ‘I’m getting there, it’s definitely not no, I just want to get this right.’
It helps that Joe is 100% continuing to walk his talk from drawing class.
Yuup. She’s clearly expressed wanting to “enjoy her view” and that she’ll think about things. The handholding is a great way of saying “just be patient” while also expressing that she’s more than comfortable with the situation right now.
That’s my reading of it, yeah. She’s absolutely aware he like-likes her, and she seems resistant to slapping a label on what’s going on right now, but she’s definitely neither leading him on or dismissing it. I kinda get the impression she’s more than merely flattered, but that she’s stopping to smell the roses and appreciating this feeling for all it’s worth.
– Joyce not noticing (or perhaps even not caring) that Dorothy is annoyed.
– Joyce seemingly not realizing Joe’s implications when he asks if they’re “just” friends.”
given how romance obsessed/’boy crazy’ she was growing up even if she didn’t necessarily get an opportunity to flirt openly i’m sure she def knows what she’s doing with joe, or maybe joe will have to try to invite her out on more dates while she knows he likes her
and more comfortable with touching his hand as opposed to shaking it off after that high five (tho be nice if casual platonic handholding was normalized lol, tbh sometimes i zone out and would prolly need someone to hold my hand just to make sure i don’t get hit by a car half the time)
— Joyce probably senses that Dorothy doesn’t want to have that kind of conversation right now and decides to let her on her way, which shows caring in and of itself
— Joyce putting a spin on Joe’s catchphrase / sex joke (“come on”) while holding hands shows that she recognizes Joe’s implications
– Joyce not noticing (or perhaps even not caring) that Dorothy is annoyed.
– Joyce seemingly not realizing Joe’s implications when he asks if they’re “just” friends.”
I read the comic and thought, huh, she gets an autism diagnosis suggestion, and bam, shes off like a rocket.
Mostly funny, but as an autistic atheist actively opposed to the work of secular / religious social hierarchies, that part about autistic overlap with the Catholic Church is just…. ugh…
yeah for the most part tumblr does dunk on Catholicism but couldn’t find the original post she made about it as opposed to the venn diagram addition, not rly into religion but i understand the ‘sexy priest’ ‘archetype’ or so, or the blasphemy of like a vampire priest or so lol
Yeah, i get that, the main point I’m trying to make is that I’m an autistic who really doesn’t like BDSM being conflated with longstanding, large, harmful social hierarchies.
i know there’s an overlap between aro/ace and autistics but everyone’s diff, i wouldn’t be surprised if having an overactive libido is also a thing, as long as it’s done safely/not some kinda ‘addiction’, go wild with it lol (i mean, if someone was confident enough and like “i hyperfocus on sex, wanna be my partner” it might work on some ppl if only for a fling)
there is also that “me and the bad b*tch i pulled being autistic” tho those image samples aren’t necessarily an oversexual ship
i mean depending that’s not something you usually talk about unless ur closer friends, tho other than wearing like a pride wristband or so , but yeah i wouldn’t care unless ppl would think i’m uninterested tho i’d rather random ppl not flirt with me as opposed to like using a dating site
If I didn’t know about his development, I wouldn’t wanna be around Joe either. She’s known him since high school and it seems that she’s never gotten a good impression of him.
She has had some fondness for him in the past, or at least, seemed to think of him as a good guy at heart, but I think his period where he really stopped trying rubbed her the wrong way since he just REALLY upped the casual dirtbag presentation with some of his t-shirts and his attitude just really being dismal.
I also think she has a lot of crap on her mind, anyway, and isn’t really looking forward to spending time around someone who she’s mainly experienced being really glibly dismissive of that kind of thing. It’s not the last person she’d want around, I imagine, but he’s going to be pretty low tier.
well, i suppose joyce picking joe over her but personally i’d rather it be joe than jen again since that’d seem more of an intentional thing like “i like her better” but i assume theyre still all going to eat lunch together as opposed to dorothy walking away from them both
Dorothy doesn’t really… have a healthy outlet for her frustrations, I don’t think. So stuff she has no reason being mad at but still irks her a bit is just more kindling for the absolute bonfire she’s building up to.
I think first Dorothy needs to learn how to befriend someone on equal footing, pretty much all of her friendships seem to revolve around her helping them but never the reverse because she doesn’t like to acknowledge when shes the one needing help.
For me it wasn’t that. Most of my needy friends couldn’t/wouldn’t help because they had too many major problems of their own (that made mine seem trivial-like Becky’s or Joyce’s) or it turned out they were selfish and let me down when I actually needed help. (Still on good terms with the former who generally could be counted on in an emergency but definitely not the latter.)
And I had friends on equal footing, they just didn’t take as much time or emotional depth so I didn’t get to know them as well. The only ones I spent real time with were in my major for homework. So much healthier. Dorothy doesn’t seem to have study groups (she was really just tutoring Walky).
Study groups sound like a good way for Dorothy to socialize while feeling productive, if she can get over the idea that not having perfect grades is a failure it would be perfect.
“friendships seem to revolve around her helping them but never the reverse ”
The other “care taker” character is Jennifer.
And all they do is compete with each other about how to take care of some third person. If thosev2 focused on caring for the other, it might create a black hole capable of swallowing tbe universe
Dorothy is mad because her friends won’t validate her attempts at self-affirmation. She self-affirms by mothering, and her friends either won’t obey her or won’t acknowledge their debt to her management.
It would’ve been, but then we would not have gotten the fun joke. I like it when description text messages link over multiple releases. It’s like have having a piecemeal conversation with someone who can’t hear you that’s months in the past. That’s how our ancestors talked to people when letters were still a thing and the Ocean took forever to cross! It’s like a historical reenactment, without the old men and glossing over all the slavery.
“And, lo, the Spaniards said you guys have spice and other shit we want. Behold so you shall do what we say and worship who we want until the Americans steal Cuba and stab you in the back in a war where Teddy Roosevelt steals all the credit from black people. Amen.”
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides
By the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men
Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will
Shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness
For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children
And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger
Those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers
And you will know my name is the Lord
When I lay my vengeance upon thee”
Considering that this strip covers a snippet of conversation, maybe have a little patience? They’re going to have lunch together, and I doubt they’ll do it without any kind of actual discussion. Also, there’s a middle ground between perfectly transparent communication and cruel manipulation.
She literally did communicate it. She told him the night before that she wanted some time to enjoy her view.
Sometimes I seriously wonder if there’s a single thing Joyce could do without someone coming in like today’s comic is the first and only thing they’ve read.
I know Dorothy has known Joe for years and isn’t necessarily his biggest fan, but this is more aggression than I ever would’ve expected from her. I wonder what else is at play here, aside from annoyance at his intrusion (and maybe some lingering resentment over yesterday morning with Joyce.) I want backstory!
I wonder if Joe is a safer target for whatever frustration she has built up trying to keep her cool with Becky who has set the tone of treating Joyce’s attention as a prize to be won. Even if she doesn’t want Joyce as a crush her behavior lately towards Jennifer and Joyce (when giving the sketchpad) shows she might have picked up a bit of Becky’s possessive behavior.
“I wonder if Joe is a safer target for whatever frustration she has built up”
Sure. That was established pretty early on. Joe thinks impure thoughts so folks can feel righteous as his ribs are cracked and his head is slammed against the floor. Joyce stood over his body screaming “our fists are the agents of the lord” or something.
If Joe can be given bruised ribs and a cracked jaw without felling bad, folks can certainly trash talk him without concern.
I wonder if a small part of it isn’t BECAUSE she’s known him for years? He says “I’m capable of being friends” and she thinks “well you’ve never been a friend to ME.”
Joe has demonstrated multiple times a code against lying/manipulation in relationships. He hates his dad for being a serial cheater and liar. He told danny to take a woman at her word.
Also, danny and dorothy were dsting for 3 years before coming to college snd dorothy dumping him. If dorothy and joe hooked up while she and danny were dating, then one of joes best qualities is stripped.
Then again, joe is convient because people hate him just enough that literally no one cares when terrible thinga happen to him. He gets to be the butt of jokrs and people laugh without feeling guilty.
“If dorothy and joe hooked up while she and danny were dating, then one of joes best qualities is stripped.”
Yes, but we have like 3 months of time skip after both Dorothy and Danny had not just broken up but moved on to at least one new relationship. A Joe/Dorothy one night stand or something then wouldn’t break Joe’s big codes, though might break his “don’t sleep with friends’ exes” if he has one.
He doesn’t have that code – or at least he pretends not to.
He told Danny he put Dorothy on his “Do” list right after they broke up.
There’s no reason to think Dorothy would have gone for him though. She’s never shown any interest, there’s been no hint of it, and there are enough other reasons for her to not be happy with him showing up here with Joyce.
if i was an artist i’d just copy/paste their heads over old art /shot XD; but no rush, whenever the inspiration strikes or just working on your own thing and then doing some shippy art as a warmup or break sketch or so.
be cool to put a random ship name generator into a site and then do drawing prompts over those lol
You revealed your feelings and she seems closer to you, that’s progress Joe. Think he probably knows Joyce enough to know he probably needs to have patience with this whole thing.
Dorothy was Danny’s first, but we don’t know definitively that it was mutual. However, they did date for four years, so if she slept with someone else before him she would have been 14 or younger. It could have also happened WHILE they were dating- I can’t imagine Dorothy cheating, but potentially they could have taken a break at some point.
Oh my! That would explain her reaction! She’s normally so reserved and polite, no matter what. But doesn’t he take pride in leaving his partners fulfilled and satisfied… at least for the one time?
Sexually satisfied, yeah. Whole lots of ways that could lead to Dorothy still being sour on him. Or okay with him as a sex fling but still suspicious of him around Joyce. Or maybe she tried to ‘fix’ him and that went bad quickly.
When talking about Joyce’s comic where she talks about making Doris an amoral lust machine. I don’t know how to link comics here and I don’t intend to learn now but it is the one called Tension.
Yeah joyce was talking about comic. Something about: Joyce-clone was was waiting for marriage. So dorothy-clone should be the complete opposite. So dorothy-clone should be a complete “hussy”.
At which point, dorothy said she’s only had sex with 3 people.
One comic day = 1-3 months IRL is not going to quick for the few people who think her showing she’s leaning towards more than friends while she thinks about it is leading him on.
i’m too old/jaded for college-like romances (tho i don’t think i would’ve had the time/been stressed out from studying and would rather just do a platonic group hangout with friends) but i’d assume the teasing/playful flirting would be the “appeal” (and in comic time it’s only been like a day since their art class [or half if you don’t count the sleeping/overnight])
Look, all due respect to Joe, I’m genuinely not trying to be Down on the guy, but I can’t help but notice a lot of folks taking issue with Dorothy’s hostility towards him when, for most of the time I’ve been reading the strip, he’s made it a point to be the biggest, most boorish asshole he can, ESPECIALLY when Dorothy’s around. I know he’s softened fairly recently, but do keep in mind said softening occurred in no small part as a direct consequence of his RECOGNIZING he was being a big boorish asshole. Again, I’m not trying to villify Joe here; I fully respect both that he’s improved by leaps and bounds, that even if he *hadn’t* he, like the rest of the cast, is just A Person Who Is Still Growing, and that there may be a more gracious way for Dorothy to handle this. But I’m also kinda sympathetic to Dorothy, who after all hasn’t exactly been having the best time of things lately AND who has an understandably Bad impression of Joe, acting a bit UNgraciously here, especially given said ungraciousness is really just Curtness right now.
Totally! I like that Joe said that friendship is also a good thing. I feel kike Joyce really values their friendship already. Him saying friendship is also great gives her room to not take him up on the romantic offer just because she fears it might lead to rejection of the friendship, too. If that makes sense.
I genuinely don’t see how that’s happening? Joe’s only been with the two of them for a couple strips now, and in that time every single thing Dorothy has said in anger or frustration has been directed entirely at him (even the one instance where she’s talking to Joyce). I suppose one could say she’s ignoring Joyce unfairly, but that’s a bit different from her taking her anger OUT on Joyce. Which may yet end up being a thing that happens, in fairness; like I said above, Dorothy’s pretty clearly Not Doing Great right now just in general, so it wouldn’t exactly shock me if she winds up snapping here now that The Joe Factor is exacerbating things. But at least right now, I don’t really see how she’s doing that.
People you confess your affections to DO NOT owe you an immediate answer. Your feelings do not indebt them to: explain theirs, give you a chance, or completely shut you down.
Joyce’s answer was not a Yes and it was not a No, it was a “I want to enjoy my view for a bit” and Joe accepted that.
The number of people in these comments who think she should magically know how she’s feeling AND run headlong into a relationship just because Joe rang the dinner bell is truly astounding. There is room for grey in human interactions. Room to take time and know yourself.
Joe is perfectly capable of walking away if he doesn’t want to wait, but he isn’t doing that. Joyce is perfectly within her rights to have the interactions she is comfortable with, and if that makes Joe leave then he wasn’t the person for her anyway.
Joyce is not leading Joe on. Joe is sticking around and waiting to see. There’s nothing at all wrong with their dynamic right now, enjoy the Dorothy/Joe drama instead of trying to force Joe/Joyce drama instead. It’s right there!
I had a dream that I was watching Wednesday, and it was some kind of Dumbing of Age crossover. But now that I try to remember it, not any of the happenings in my dream, happened in DoA. It was fun, though!
Is Dorothy angry because she suspects Joe is just trying to get into Joyce’s pants same as all his other hookups or is there more of a jealousy edge to it?
I’ve seen this theory before, and I’m not sure I buy it.
Like, I could totally buy Dorothy being jealous of Joyce’s new boyfriend if she had any reason to think that was happening. As it is, all she knows is that a dude she doesn’t like much has been invited to a lunch that was always going to be a group thing until everyone else bailed. It’s not like she ever expected this to be the BFFs-only girl lunch or anything. And I don’t think “Joyce and Joe are an item” is a possibility that would occur to her unless someone actually told her.
Having said that, the last time we saw Dorothy and Joyce together, Dorothy was pissed off because she kind of felt like Joyce was taking their friendship for granted, so I guess Joyce inviting someone else to lunch immediately it looks like it’s just the two of them won’t have helped.
And now I think about it, that must be worse when she doesn’t know about the Joyce/Joe ship. Like “Seriously? You’re so desperate to have literally anyone else there, you invited this guy?”
I don’t think “Joyce and Joe are an item” would occur to her. I don’t think she’s seen any sign of interest from Joyce’s side before and she knows that Joe doesn’t do “item”.
So, from her point of view, if Joe’s here it’s because he wants sex. In her experience, that’s Joe’s only reason to interact with women.
For me, Dorothy’s reaction is a little mad at Joe for his past behavior, and a little cranky that he is coming with them so she doesn’t have Joyce to herself, with a big dollop of Mom aggravation that Joyce insists on not following her advice and guidance, when Joyce *clearly* (in D’s mind) needs Mom guidance. So I think there is some Mom-exasperation in there too. Meanwhile, Joyce is figuring out things at her own pace and in her own way. Dorothy needs to take a big co-dependent step back.
I keep rereading this strip and I just really, really, *love* it. It is such a perfect execution of the comic strip form. This strip is telling us at least two stories, in five panels, and the visual punchline of the second panel being repeated but altered in the fifth panel is lovely. It’s visual poetry, and it’s a small, incomplete piece of a bigger story, and also a small, complete story about Joe and Joyce.
Joyce taking Joe’s hand in that last panel…that’s really beautiful. It really feels like these are two people who just have the whole unknown ahead of them, and they’re just beginning to consider the possibility of exploring it together. Willis, your art is! Makes me feel things! Is very. It is serving your characters and your story very well, that’s what it is.
Everything commenters are saying makes sense, but I feel like the intensity of Dorothy’s anger still feels out of place. And Joe doesn’t seem the least surprised or confused by her deep antipathy, so I wonder if there’s still a piece from the time jump we’re missing.
Dorothy is going with the saying that a leopard can’t change its spots
and Joe has accepter his fuccboi status so he probably feels that it’s completely warranted
I can see two outcomes, because everyone has a limit to abuse, warranted or not : either he blows up at Dorothy and puts her back in her place, or he proves her right and goes back to his old fuccboi ways
Just to add: that “are you?” felt more to me like Dororthy thinks Joe is incapable of being a friend to HER, rather than worrying about his intentions vis a vis the female gender in general and/or Joyce
Oh, I just noticed the composition between panels 2 and 5.
Joe is here where one girl leaves him behind annoyed(?).
Joe is here where one girl brings him along teasingly(?).
Joe knows that Dorothy has difficulties to believe he can be a friend with a girl. Probably she tried in the past and Joe was not interested, or maybe there’s some interesting story in the past of them we still don’t know.
My theory on Dorothy’s anger is that it’s specifically targeted on Joe’s motives with Joyce. If we include the previous comic’s context, Dorothy spends the whole sequence doubting and trying to discern Joe’s real reason for being there, and here he’s suggesting it’s because they’re friends. Dorothy knows Joe doesn’t really DO “just friends” with girls, plus Joyce is the one initially using “friends” to describe their relationship. For a skeptic who’s known Joe through HS, it wouldn’t be a stretch to read his awkward delivery and unease as him being evasive (instead of crushing while trying to give space), and he doesn’t have a great track record for female friendship. Dorothy considers Joyce to be wholly naïve, so I’m betting on this being her A: being protective of Joyce while trying not to directly parent her, and more importantly B: assuming Joe is trying to run some kind of play on one of the only women on campus willing to socialize with him beyond a quick lay.
Edging increases the internal pressure to be released when delayed gratification if finally had. Joyce is getting pregnant. The build-up is just too much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRDcwEsWo4
Is she upset because she had thought she was friends with Joe prelist? Did she want to be friends with Joe but he was Joe and Danny was Dannying it up? Was she friends with someone he Joed? The world will know… in probably 2 yrs irl.
Best guess, it’s a combination of old friend that didn’t really keep up with it especially as she’s gone through all the stress. Then the damage of the leaked “do” list. And Proximity to Danny. Add that on top of her trying to make Joyce as hard and as much as possible before leaving for Yale and Joe is lucky she didn’t go amber on his ass.
Yknow what I love? I love when you associate with someone who has a veneer of sociality, under which is it quickly apparent they are a bit of a turd. But you associate with them anyway, with misgivings because of the turdness, but you’re a little bit locked into the social contract and they haven’t Done anything reprehensible Really- and THEN you find out that oh shit, they actually ARE a person and their turdness is also but a veneer and some sort of like. Defense mechanism often.
And then you have a friend
And then you have a friend (who maybe you’re called upon to defend because some people don’t ever get past their turdness and look fair tbh).
Also, I’m envious of Joyce. She doesn’t seem to feel like other people’s feelings are her responsibility. She didn’t get all twisted up about Becky, even when Sarah kinda prompted it, and she doesn’t seem to feel like she has much responsibility to Joe. As an ace baby and nerd catnip, I spent a lot of energy trying very hard to manage ppls expectations, cos I bought in HARD to the ‘don’t be a tease’ ‘friendzone’ bullshit.
Onya Joyce. It is Not Your Problem if other people make themselves uncomfortable over you. (gonna get ppl saying ‘she should still give him a clear answer’ and like, fine, but that’s a kindness on her part, and/or a recognition of the rest of their relationship, not something she OWES just cos Joe caught Feelings)
He’s asking a question and they are friends. Does she owe him an answer? Well, technically no, but it’s still a dick move not to give. They don’t owe you their friendship. They don’t owe you the courtesy to ask instead of just assuming and walking away. They don’t owe you anything either. But in this case, Joe is her friend, which means owed and expected are two different things. I expect my friends to be kind to me or have a good reason not to. If one of them started being a dick out of nowhere and told me I wasn’t owed kindnes, they wouldn’t be a friend anymore. You are a very selfish person if you think being an Ace also excuses you from basic courtesy and manners, as well as basic communication between individuals who are considered friends.
No one is owed anything. You aren’t owed kindness or sympathy for being Ace. You get that because other people are kind and have sympathy.
This just goes to show that Joe is a much better person that Danny. Joe is a child of divorce so he knows what kind of emotional damage a relationship can do to you. He has made his emotional boundaries clear from the beginning. He does know how to have a healthy relationship, since the beginning.
Joyce is enjoying playing with her food, which is cool. I do hope she tells Joe soon that she wants to keep playing with her food (and needs time to think of an answer) because Joe doesn’t deserve much tragedy. He has always been a fairly progressive character, at least in principle, and even if he was bad about things he tried to be good about them in a weird way.
the thing about white liberal Americans is that they'll argue to accept bigots into their tent before accepting the bigots' targets.
the targets that have been on the same side as white liberals from the jump.
John Redcorn was pretty much the only contemporary Native representation I had in comedy growing up. Probably the funniest Native character in cartoon history and a lot of that was on Jonathan Joss' pitch perfect rezzy uncle performance. RIP to one of the best to ever do it.
today in #9chickweedlane i learned that, yes, lolly is so edda 2.0 that she's even wearing her mother's wedding dress as she gets married to Her Dad (But Taller)
online transformers collectors: i hope ss86 megatron doesn't have big ol' treads on his back!!!
ss86 megatron: *treads fold up inside the legs*
online transformers collectors: HIS LEGS ARE TOO CHUNKY >>>:((((
the big disconnect that happens here is between the correct message for D politicians (especially in red states), which is “you’re right, this isn’t who you are, you’re better than that, vote differently next time”
and the actual truth, which is yes you did, fuck you
Raw milk has the opportunity to do the funniest thing
Ferric Fang@fangferric.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
RFK Jr celebrated the release of the MAHA report by downing raw milk shooters in the White House with influencer Paul Saladino. Hazards of raw milk include Listeria, Salmonella, Campylobacter, Yersinia, E. coli O157:H7, and now-- avian flu.
ETPC @etpc.bsky.social ⋅ 4h
Kendra, regular version @kendrawcandraw.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Kevin Buist @kevinbuist.com ⋅ 2d
Ferric Fang @fangferric.bsky.social ⋅ 3d
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What a delightful twist on Joe’s catch-phrase! 🥰
*plays “Abracadabra” by Steve Miller’s Band on hacked muzak*
What catchphrase is that?
“Come on” — not unironically the one that pissed Dorothy off in Gender Studies class!!! XD
Oh, wow, funny, I did not catch that!
I’m pretty sure “c’mon” is a very common expression. It’s hardly catchphrase material.
A catchphrase is hardly restricted by the commonality of it’s usage. A surfer guy stereotype is still distinguished by saying, “dude,” as a catchphrase. Hell, even just, “catchphrase,” was recently effectively deployed as a catchphrase (to humourous effect, to be sure). A catchphrase is more identifiably so based on the frequency of use and connectedness to the identity of a particular person.
All that said, I otherwise agree that, “come on,” isn’t so distinctively pronounced with Joe that it stands out as a characteristic marker. However, I am *not* willing to do the legwork of OCR’ing the comic text, attributing each bubble, and then running frequency analysis to mathematically determine if it is or isn’t in fact a statistically significant identifier of Joe’s. Though it certainly could be done.
“…friend is not the failstate of lover, you know”
“LET US DEPART, MR. JOSEPH♥”
I mean, for a lot of us, it’s the starting point and main core of lover.
Very much true, Professor Rose! 🥰
Indeed. I married my best friend. It’s worked pretty well for the past 40 years.
I married my best friend and ten years later my wife is still pissed about it.
We’re coming up on 49 this week, and I concur.
I would very much like my lover to be my friend. I don’t think I could marry a girl who won’t eat goldfish crackers and watch anime with me in my underwear.
But what would you be wearing?
Presumably their normal attire, sans underwear
That’s what I read.
Most people have more than one pair. Although if you’re close enough in size, I suppose you could wear each others’ when you’re feeling a little kinky.
My wife and I wear one another’s underwear all the time.
And socks. And leggings. And t-shirts.
It’s not kinky so much as ‘oops, all my stuff is in the laundry.’
I began my relationship with my now-husband by telling him I didn’t feel the same way about him but was happy to get to know him better as a friend. And then once I did that I realized I did feel the same way.
People underestimate the potential of the Friend Zone! Obviously people should not pursue friendship with the sole intention of hoping they can turn a “no” into a “yes” with enough time and persistence, but many people (possibly especially women?) kind of need people to start in the Friend Zone before achieving “romantic partner” status.
Considering Joyce’s first and only prior date with Joe, and his past behavior, I wouldn’t be surprised that even if she does have feelings for him she’d want to take it slow due to residual wariness about whether or not he’s really changed.
Or also: could be that while she has clearly shown some subconscious physical attraction to him, she’s never thought about anything beyond that (at least not since before that terrible date) and feels good about possibly exploring this but wants to take some time to figure out how she really feels first.
Joe: Friends?
Me: No-one told you life was gonna be this waaay…. *clapclapclapclap*
She’s leading him by the nose~
Uhhh… that’s a hand, genius. Jeez, look at Mr. Oblivious over here. Next your gonna tell me you don’t understand basic common place idioms. I know I do.
You can’t convince me that Joyce isn’t slightly enjoying the fact that she’s dangling Joe on a string and can choose to crush his spirit at any time.
Oh, she absolutely love it.
You can’t convince me that a part of Joe doesn’t like it too.
Hey, we saw his reaction to Dina’s proposed “experiment”. Dude’s absolutely a sub.
Yeah, I can totally see Joe as a chastity sub and Joyce as the keyholding tease-mistress, among other BDSM activities
We saw Joyce’s reaction as well. He can’t be too worried yet.
The two actual sexcapades I remember of Joe (with Roz and Malaya) were both initiated by the other person, too. And Liz.
…have we ever seen him successfully hit on someone? I’m just forgetting it, right?
We saw him with Penny: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-5/02-threes-a-crowd/twelvethirty/
But we don’t see how that started. She is clearly domme, but that tells us nothing about whether she hit on him or vice versa.
It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex. He is (or was early on, more accurately) regularly hitting on women. But all the attempts we see involve him getting shot down, usually very emphatically (Sarah, Rachel). The only successes we actually know about were either started by the woman (Malaya, Liz) or started off screen so we don’t know what happened (Roz, Penny).
We’ve never seen him successfully hit on anyone, though it’s implied he’s successful pretty often. (Up to quite recently, with Danny’s comment about being sexiled again.)
We’ve also never seen him fail with someone who didn’t reject him at once – other than that first date with Joyce.
“It’s one of the things that’s always kind of bothered me about Joe’s portrayal. It’s strongly implied that he’d getting lots of sex.”
Yeah, im a bit scared that Joe and Joyce are going to get close to having sex and bam, Joe confesses its all been a lie and he’s only had sex with 2 people.
Joe’s good points are his confidence and straight talk, no lies, no manipulation. And if thats all been bullshit, then jeebus, thats the worst twist ever.
Honestly, that hits me as pretty realistic.
One of my acquaintances in college, a friend of one of my male friends, acted very much like Joe, hitting on people at random, often in a crass fashion, and hooting about this sexual prowess. This included, while on a trip to the grocery store, holding up a six-inch summer sausage and informing me that it was equivalent to what he was packing.
I learned from our mutual friend that this attitude stemmed from a single sexual experience he’d had his first week in college. Basically, he lost his virginity and then started acting like he was a player.
It took a few years, but eventually he got over trying to convince everyone he was a sex god or whatever and settled into a better attitude in general and actually ended up being kind of a cool guy (albeit still fairly crass). I believe he ended up marrying his first serious girlfriend, and last I heard remains happily so with at least one kid.
Yeah, it is plausible. Its just shitty from the perspective of yet another male charactet in DoA is just a weenus.
Becky got a bunch of her shit figured out and is confident to the max, a horn dog, and finally did it with Dina. Thought Joe might get some shit figured aout and be a confident to the max horndog who maybe fall for Joyce. But there have been weird little clues pointing to a “surprise! This guy sucks too” type twist.
Especially since one rederming quality of joe has been hus “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code.
If Joe has been lying this whole time, constantly breaking his code, that would be like finding hindreds of bullet riddled criminals buried in the bat cave.
But if a guy hates joe or hates batman, that would be the way to write it.
I’ve got no idea what you’re even talking about.
The whole damn point of Joe is that he was shit, but he’s gotten better. Yeah, he’s been playing up his horndog image, even though he really is a horndog. We’ve known that for a long time now. He talked to Danny about it, after the list blew up.
He’s never had a “no lies, no manipulation, no cheating” code. I don’t even know where that comes from. No cheating, yes. But mostly by not letting himself get in a relationship he could cheat it, because he “knew” he would.
I don’t think there’s any “this guy sucks too” twist coming. Or at least not in ways that we didn’t already know he sucked and that he’s been trying to improve.
Not sure how you got “ another male character in DoA is just a weenus” from the idea that he may have had less sex than he’s claimed? That kind of seems like a personal judgement?
Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with. Yes lots of people (especially other men) do judge men by that, and you seem to possibly be one of them, but if so, that’s kind of…your own issue? Not commentary the comic is making. At all.
Aren’t you also the person who said in yesterdays comments that you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex? Again, respectfully, it seems like you may have some personal hang ups about how you see other people and how they might see you in relation to this stuff that you are projecting onto the comic. Because I don’t think anyone else here is reading it that way (or at least most of us aren’t).
“Confidence or character strength of men is not objectively measured by how many people they’ve had sex with”
But confidence/strength could be measured by finding out Joe has been constantly lying about who he really is.
Its not about numbers. Becky is over the top confident and strong. Shes only had sex with Dina and maybe one other.
“you feel the comic is all about shaming the idea of casual sex?”
Is there an example of a casual sex relationship involving a main character that shown in a positive light?
Danny/dorothy? 4 years, so nope.
Dorothy/walky? Started out that waym but quickly devolved into the whole “i love you” bit, break up, plus dorothy pity fucking him, so no.
Walky/amber? Garbage roof is not positive portrayal, so, no.
Walky / lucy? Nope
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but it felt like it was being presented that he’s doing it only cause he cant be in the relationship with the one he loves. Like it was second place. Id have to re-read.
Becky/dina? No. Becky nearly died thinking dina was turned on by Joe and not her.
Sal/Jason: sex without feelings of love, but only to get better grades and an abuse of authority.
Danny/sal? Nope
Ruth/Jennifer? Suicide pacts are the opposite of casual
Ruth/newspaper editor? Started out being a casual sex encounter, and ruth bailed. For reasons?
Ruth/jason? Taking your bartender home could have qualified. But ruth made it into another weird ruth thing. No.
Jennifer/asher? No. Also asher might be decieving her.
Joe/roz: political hit job isnt very casual.
Think joe and someone, maybe malaya, might have had a casual moment. That might be the only one.
Roz was handing out lube and condoms at one point. But she doesnt get much face time and i dont remember seeing any of her relationships with anyone. Except the sex tape/political hit job.
I cant think of any other relationships that hapoened on screen.
So maybe just the one with Joe/malaya, but if Joe is a huge liar all this time, kinda takes away a big chunk of it being portrayed in a positive light.
Sal/jason was casual but objectively unethical. Jason got fired.
Ethan and his flings, maybe, but i seem to remember him saying it was his second place choice at one point cause he coukdnt be with the one he loved.
Did i miss any examples of casual sex being portrayed positively?
I’ll give you that on the lying point, but given the society we exist in, it’s a lie I think many women, myself included, might be a bit more forgiving of than others. Especially for a character like Joe whose entire earlier persona seemed heavily shaped by toxic masculinity but is now trying to change.
If he admits he was exaggerating at some point it wouldn’t be a shock and would be another moment of character growth. I can’t speak for all women but personally I respect a person who is able to admit they weren’t being honest before because they were concerned about public appearances, but want to start being honest going forward.
And for someone like Joyce I doubt it would be a problem, more likely a relief if he admitted he was less experienced than he’d originally claimed, since being with a partner who has a lot more experience would possibly cause some nervousness in someone like Joyce who has no experience and until recently believed pre-martial sex got you sent to a place of eternal torment. I dunno what her views are on it now but it’s like still going to take her time to become comfortable with the idea of physical intimacy given her upbringing.
As for the other points, I addressed all that in yesterdays comments already.
Didn’t he already imply that when he confessed to Danny that he’s never actually been in a threesome? IIRC he admitted that he doesn’t get anywhere near the action that he claims to get.
I mean, depending on what statistics you go by, the average number of sexual partners for people might be anywhere from 6 to 24 and only about 10 to 20% of people have been in a threesome.
It doesnt actually take a lot to get into the “busy” half of the bell curve.
Oh well. The rate time moves in this comic we might find out by 2030.
I learned ‘how to be a man’ from my dad, even though that turned out to be a poor fit for who I actually am. Joe may be in a similar situation only about 45 years earlier than me.
It’s kinda hot, nglWhat Joe is trying to say is that he wants to hold hands and look at pictures of dinosaurs
Peak romance really.
Becky angrily yells from across campus, “HEY! THAT’S OUR THING!”
joyce is having a very good day
I know Dotty is mad, and that’s understandable… But… But… THEY’RE SO CUTE GAHHHH. MY HEART!!! JOYCE IS SO HAPPY GAHHHH GRRRRR WOOF WOOF BARK BA-
it’s so weird seeing Joe being the insecure one.
well, as far as we know this is his first actual time he’s caught feelings (as the kids say) as opposed to just a quick hookup (tho tbh i’m surprised when he was younger it hasn’t been an issue with jealous girls unless he was openly saying he wanted to just get in their pants from the start lol)
If there is one thing Joe has always made clear, it is that things have always casual and not serious because he didn’t do vulnerability and vulnerable feelings.
It’s not ’cause he likes you or anything.
or has been yearning for but denying himself that all his life because he “knows” he’ll just turn into his fatherOoh, this is interesting. Joyce definitely knows what she’s doing with ambiguity.
I don’t hold Dorothy’s hesitation against her, since I mean, she doesn’t know any of what happened. We’ll see.
I think Dorothy’s question is pretty damn valid given that literally right at this moment Joe is being incapable of being friends with a woman. He hasn’t sexually objectified Joyce, but he definitely does not want to be friends with her either.
I can’t tell which one Dorothy is (more) mad at.
Same. But does she have any particular reason to be mad at Joe?
Like I know she doesn’t have a great impression of him but did he do anything to piss her off recently, or is she just suspicious of him right now?
I think her last real interaction with him was his “completely giving up” stage late last semester where he was intentionally being really gross and misogynistic and more than a little nihilistic.
Obviously, Joe’s been way different since then, but she hasn’t really had an opportunity to see that, or what led to that in the first place.
If it was revealed that a guy I knew kept a list of women at the university we attended ranked by fuckability, I would take that very personally. I get pretty offended when people view me as fuckstock.
So IS Joe capable of being friends with a woman? We have yet to see any evidence in his favor. Joyce befriended him, semi-forcibly, but as soon as it worked he stopped wanting to be friends with Joyce and started feeling the romance.
Cards on the table, I ship Joyce and Joe pretty hard, and I think in a world where they understand themselves a little better and aren’t so frightened of parts of themselves because of the terrible behavior of their respective parents, they’d make a great couple. They are SO cute together.
But they’re also both still recovering misogynists. Joyce has absolutely no sense of personal boundaries. Joe is so terrified he’s going to become a cheater that he might make it true. Joyce has some SERIOUS shame to work through about sex as a recovering Christian woman, not to mention trauma from an attempted rape, and Joe has absolutely no experience with sensitivity or care or love when it comes to sex, so obviously there are some nuclear incidents waiting to Occur. While I am SUPER into this plotline, I am also wincing hard in anticipation of a zero-survivors landing.
i’d assume even without it being joe she wouldn’t necessarily wanting someone to butt into their lunch time/hangout considering she was feeling upset/underappreciated after joyce ‘begged’ her to spend more time together or so
True, she’s built up quite a bit of irritation at Joyce that she might be letting loose on this “jock himbo” she’s already disliked for years. I wonder if he made some nasty passes at her or maybe it was The List.
I’m worried about her transfer too.
If he ever did, it’d have been pre-comic. I kinda get the impression she’s been off-limits to him for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being Joe is not a guy who’d make a pass at his best friend’s ex of a longterm relationship. Like, he doesn’t approve of cheating, and he doesn’t seem keen on “bro-code” violations, either, and that’d definitely be one.
Beyond that, she also knows him, or at least did, and she saw through a lot of his act before, even if I think Joyce has a more keen understanding of Joe these days. I don’t really feel like he’d even attempt it on her.
But as his best friend’s girlfriend during high school, even if she was off-limits, she’s probably seen him at his worst. Not directed at her, but at every other attractive girl she knew.
Remember, she dated Danny for a while, and he is Joe’s best friend.
Notice how Dorothy and Joe have never been shown as friends? How much do you want to bet that Joe essentially went “This is a girl I have no chance or interest in having sex with, therefore she is irrelevant to me”
From her one line I’d say that she was more mad at Joe. I’d imagine that she would not trust Joe with Joyce at all, though I’m guessing that she was not aware that they went on a date previously.
That’s my guess, too. Dorothy probably thinks Joe’s playing some game to get into Joyce’s pants. She hasn’t been around to see New Joe, so she has no reason to trust his sincerity.
Maybe that’s why Joe and Amber’s stories came together, so she can corroborate his character growth as an uninvolved third party Dorothy would trust. She knows.
Bro, this dork is so cute.
Dotty is mad…when you’re being polite.
These two drive her crazy.
Now, that kind of hand holding is meant to turn into something more like cuddling.
I think this is Joyce testing her confidence a bit. No doubt she enjoys knowing exactly what’s going on and for once not being the last horse to cross the finish line, but that handhold in the last panel feels like reassurance to me. Like ‘I’m getting there, it’s definitely not no, I just want to get this right.’
It helps that Joe is 100% continuing to walk his talk from drawing class.
Yuup. She’s clearly expressed wanting to “enjoy her view” and that she’ll think about things. The handholding is a great way of saying “just be patient” while also expressing that she’s more than comfortable with the situation right now.
This is good flirting.
That’s my reading of it, yeah. She’s absolutely aware he like-likes her, and she seems resistant to slapping a label on what’s going on right now, but she’s definitely neither leading him on or dismissing it. I kinda get the impression she’s more than merely flattered, but that she’s stopping to smell the roses and appreciating this feeling for all it’s worth.
Joyce needs some positivity in her life right now, she deserves to enjoy it at her pace.
Joyce, you’re so adorably autistic.
They are both adorable together.
Was there something that particularly signified autistic traits in this strip?
Most of this strip tbh.
– Joyce not noticing (or perhaps even not caring) that Dorothy is annoyed.
– Joyce seemingly not realizing Joe’s implications when he asks if they’re “just” friends.”
Thank you for clarifying that ! I didn’t notice it.
given how romance obsessed/’boy crazy’ she was growing up even if she didn’t necessarily get an opportunity to flirt openly i’m sure she def knows what she’s doing with joe, or maybe joe will have to try to invite her out on more dates while she knows he likes her
and more comfortable with touching his hand as opposed to shaking it off after that high five (tho be nice if casual platonic handholding was normalized lol, tbh sometimes i zone out and would prolly need someone to hold my hand just to make sure i don’t get hit by a car half the time)
I think the shaking-off was more of a “cough cough nothing to see here nope not a thing” quick cover, than it was a signifier of disgust.
I only remember the high five that turned into acvidental interlocked fingers, like joyce never high fived before
Not to invalidate her autism, but
— Joyce probably senses that Dorothy doesn’t want to have that kind of conversation right now and decides to let her on her way, which shows caring in and of itself
— Joyce putting a spin on Joe’s catchphrase / sex joke (“come on”) while holding hands shows that she recognizes Joe’s implications
– Joyce not noticing (or perhaps even not caring) that Dorothy is annoyed.
– Joyce seemingly not realizing Joe’s implications when he asks if they’re “just” friends.”
I read the comic and thought, huh, she gets an autism diagnosis suggestion, and bam, shes off like a rocket.
Embrace it Joyce!
Aw dang. That was supposed to be quoted.
Not trying to plagarize.
Very much so, can’t wait ’till they finally have fun in bed!
Hopefully soon — it’d be really great in helping dissolve the “sexless autistic” stereotype.
lol that just makes me think of that ‘bdsm is for autistics’ post doubleca5t on tumblr made (https://doubleca5t.tumblr.com/post/699757869383467008/bdsm-is-sex-for-autistic-people-post-is-funny-to)
Mostly funny, but as an autistic atheist actively opposed to the work of secular / religious social hierarchies, that part about autistic overlap with the Catholic Church is just…. ugh…
yeah for the most part tumblr does dunk on Catholicism but couldn’t find the original post she made about it as opposed to the venn diagram addition, not rly into religion but i understand the ‘sexy priest’ ‘archetype’ or so, or the blasphemy of like a vampire priest or so lol
Yeah, i get that, the main point I’m trying to make is that I’m an autistic who really doesn’t like BDSM being conflated with longstanding, large, harmful social hierarchies.
“autistic atheist actively opposed to the work of secular / religious social hierarchies,”
So…. you vs the world? I mean isnt 99% of the world part of some social hierarchy or other?
i know there’s an overlap between aro/ace and autistics but everyone’s diff, i wouldn’t be surprised if having an overactive libido is also a thing, as long as it’s done safely/not some kinda ‘addiction’, go wild with it lol (i mean, if someone was confident enough and like “i hyperfocus on sex, wanna be my partner” it might work on some ppl if only for a fling)
there is also that “me and the bad b*tch i pulled being autistic” tho those image samples aren’t necessarily an oversexual ship
Either way, I’d rather not people automatically assume stuff about my sexuality on account of being autisic. Especially given I’m still a virgin.
i mean depending that’s not something you usually talk about unless ur closer friends, tho other than wearing like a pride wristband or so , but yeah i wouldn’t care unless ppl would think i’m uninterested tho i’d rather random ppl not flirt with me as opposed to like using a dating site
what is Dorothy mad about?
Lots of stuff. She’s got lots of emotions.
Lol, this girl is like a volcano about to go off.
If I didn’t know about his development, I wouldn’t wanna be around Joe either. She’s known him since high school and it seems that she’s never gotten a good impression of him.
She has had some fondness for him in the past, or at least, seemed to think of him as a good guy at heart, but I think his period where he really stopped trying rubbed her the wrong way since he just REALLY upped the casual dirtbag presentation with some of his t-shirts and his attitude just really being dismal.
I also think she has a lot of crap on her mind, anyway, and isn’t really looking forward to spending time around someone who she’s mainly experienced being really glibly dismissive of that kind of thing. It’s not the last person she’d want around, I imagine, but he’s going to be pretty low tier.
well, i suppose joyce picking joe over her but personally i’d rather it be joe than jen again since that’d seem more of an intentional thing like “i like her better” but i assume theyre still all going to eat lunch together as opposed to dorothy walking away from them both
Dorothy doesn’t really… have a healthy outlet for her frustrations, I don’t think. So stuff she has no reason being mad at but still irks her a bit is just more kindling for the absolute bonfire she’s building up to.
Well, venting your frustration with your child at your child isn’t a healthy thing to do…
Dorothy needs more friends.
She really does. Less needy friends. I really hope she can start over at Yale.
I think first Dorothy needs to learn how to befriend someone on equal footing, pretty much all of her friendships seem to revolve around her helping them but never the reverse because she doesn’t like to acknowledge when shes the one needing help.
For me it wasn’t that. Most of my needy friends couldn’t/wouldn’t help because they had too many major problems of their own (that made mine seem trivial-like Becky’s or Joyce’s) or it turned out they were selfish and let me down when I actually needed help. (Still on good terms with the former who generally could be counted on in an emergency but definitely not the latter.)
And I had friends on equal footing, they just didn’t take as much time or emotional depth so I didn’t get to know them as well. The only ones I spent real time with were in my major for homework. So much healthier. Dorothy doesn’t seem to have study groups (she was really just tutoring Walky).
Study groups sound like a good way for Dorothy to socialize while feeling productive, if she can get over the idea that not having perfect grades is a failure it would be perfect.
“friendships seem to revolve around her helping them but never the reverse ”
The other “care taker” character is Jennifer.
And all they do is compete with each other about how to take care of some third person. If thosev2 focused on caring for the other, it might create a black hole capable of swallowing tbe universe
Dorothy is mad because her friends won’t validate her attempts at self-affirmation. She self-affirms by mothering, and her friends either won’t obey her or won’t acknowledge their debt to her management.
“She self-affirms by mothering,”
Every word in that comment is so very accurate
And so very wrong
“We’re Friends!” would have been a good strip title.
It would’ve been, but then we would not have gotten the fun joke. I like it when description text messages link over multiple releases. It’s like have having a piecemeal conversation with someone who can’t hear you that’s months in the past. That’s how our ancestors talked to people when letters were still a thing and the Ocean took forever to cross! It’s like a historical reenactment, without the old men and glossing over all the slavery.
Or “enviable”. It’s all good.
I came here to say that. “Enviable” was the right one-word title for this strip!
“Position” would also work. Or “Just”
They’re not gonna be able to walk like that.
Holding right hands and all lol.
It’s enough to show Joe she’s leaning towards friends++
lol well if they were side by side it’d be awkward but i assume she’s still going to be slightly ahead unless they switch sides or so along the way
Philippians 4:11, Joe. Philippians 4:11.
“And, lo, the Spaniards said you guys have spice and other shit we want. Behold so you shall do what we say and worship who we want until the Americans steal Cuba and stab you in the back in a war where Teddy Roosevelt steals all the credit from black people. Amen.”
Joe doesn’t consider that one canon. It’s part of the spinoff series
“The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides
By the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men
Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will
Shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness
For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children
And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger
Those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers
And you will know my name is the Lord
When I lay my vengeance upon thee”
I have to look for Philippians 4:11, because I read this text and said: no way its new testament.
It’s supposed to be from the Old Testament, but it’s not a straight quote. It’s a mashup of several verses, though the general idea is the same.
Yeah, that’s not Phillippians 4:11, it’s Ezekiel 25:17.
or Monster 23:19
Yeah, the Phillippians verse is more like, I’m happy, not needy, no matter what (so you should aspire to be the same).
that’s Tarantino P:f
DOROTHY, TURN AROUND. WITNESS THE CUTE
We have handholding. I repeat, We have made hand contact.
I’m all aboard the SS Joeyce but the raking over coals isn’t kind. Give the guy an answer. Being left on the hook is the worst.
She’s teasing him because she isn’t sure yet. That’s hardly raking someone over the coals.
Then you communicate that. Don’t play with people’s emotions like that. We wouldn’t give anyone else that latitude.
Considering that this strip covers a snippet of conversation, maybe have a little patience? They’re going to have lunch together, and I doubt they’ll do it without any kind of actual discussion. Also, there’s a middle ground between perfectly transparent communication and cruel manipulation.
She literally did communicate it. She told him the night before that she wanted some time to enjoy her view.
Sometimes I seriously wonder if there’s a single thing Joyce could do without someone coming in like today’s comic is the first and only thing they’ve read.
You are right I did forget that strip. I retract my complaint. Sucks to be in that middle area but she did give an answer of sorts.
She hasn’t said no and she looks happy to have his company. I think that’s enough, she doesn’t need to write an essay.
“raking over coals isn’t kind. Give the guy an answer. Being left on the hook is the worst.”
Dude. Todays strip is like, 30 seconds of conversation.
Joe, you’re gonna have to wait longer than THAT
I know Dorothy has known Joe for years and isn’t necessarily his biggest fan, but this is more aggression than I ever would’ve expected from her. I wonder what else is at play here, aside from annoyance at his intrusion (and maybe some lingering resentment over yesterday morning with Joyce.) I want backstory!
Dorothy is quite simply JEALOUS at no longer being Joyce’s main crush.
I wonder if Joe is a safer target for whatever frustration she has built up trying to keep her cool with Becky who has set the tone of treating Joyce’s attention as a prize to be won. Even if she doesn’t want Joyce as a crush her behavior lately towards Jennifer and Joyce (when giving the sketchpad) shows she might have picked up a bit of Becky’s possessive behavior.
“I wonder if Joe is a safer target for whatever frustration she has built up”
Sure. That was established pretty early on. Joe thinks impure thoughts so folks can feel righteous as his ribs are cracked and his head is slammed against the floor. Joyce stood over his body screaming “our fists are the agents of the lord” or something.
If Joe can be given bruised ribs and a cracked jaw without felling bad, folks can certainly trash talk him without concern.
I wonder if a small part of it isn’t BECAUSE she’s known him for years? He says “I’m capable of being friends” and she thinks “well you’ve never been a friend to ME.”
It makes me suspicious that something happened between the two of them specifically. It’s a thought that’s occurred to me before.
Joe has demonstrated multiple times a code against lying/manipulation in relationships. He hates his dad for being a serial cheater and liar. He told danny to take a woman at her word.
Also, danny and dorothy were dsting for 3 years before coming to college snd dorothy dumping him. If dorothy and joe hooked up while she and danny were dating, then one of joes best qualities is stripped.
Then again, joe is convient because people hate him just enough that literally no one cares when terrible thinga happen to him. He gets to be the butt of jokrs and people laugh without feeling guilty.
“If dorothy and joe hooked up while she and danny were dating, then one of joes best qualities is stripped.”
Yes, but we have like 3 months of time skip after both Dorothy and Danny had not just broken up but moved on to at least one new relationship. A Joe/Dorothy one night stand or something then wouldn’t break Joe’s big codes, though might break his “don’t sleep with friends’ exes” if he has one.
Dorothy is so Lawful-Good. It doesnt fit who she is.
But DoA seems to be about breaking characters until irreparable danage occurs
He doesn’t have that code – or at least he pretends not to.
He told Danny he put Dorothy on his “Do” list right after they broke up.
There’s no reason to think Dorothy would have gone for him though. She’s never shown any interest, there’s been no hint of it, and there are enough other reasons for her to not be happy with him showing up here with Joyce.
The cool thing about being an artist is, if I wasn’t so lazy, I could totally sate my desires by just drawing some hot action between the two.
If I wasn’t so lazy.
if i was an artist i’d just copy/paste their heads over old art /shot XD; but no rush, whenever the inspiration strikes or just working on your own thing and then doing some shippy art as a warmup or break sketch or so.
be cool to put a random ship name generator into a site and then do drawing prompts over those lol
As part of my Immediately Crushed on Joyce with Glasses phase I did draw this if you are interested [NSFW]
I am. Good job! Pretty good stuff <3
Just lost my shit at the hand holding.
Same. I’m feeling a little vulnerable about how invested I am in this couple 🥺
Does not help that they used “Take On Me” in the new trailer for The Last of Us and I’m feeling all sorts of ways!!!
You revealed your feelings and she seems closer to you, that’s progress Joe. Think he probably knows Joyce enough to know he probably needs to have patience with this whole thing.
Dorothy said she’s had sex with “like, three people.” Danny, Walky… I’m still betting on a fling with Joe during the timeskip.
Was Danny Dorothy’s first?
Dorothy was Danny’s first, but we don’t know definitively that it was mutual. However, they did date for four years, so if she slept with someone else before him she would have been 14 or younger. It could have also happened WHILE they were dating- I can’t imagine Dorothy cheating, but potentially they could have taken a break at some point.
Oh my! That would explain her reaction! She’s normally so reserved and polite, no matter what. But doesn’t he take pride in leaving his partners fulfilled and satisfied… at least for the one time?
Sexually satisfied, yeah. Whole lots of ways that could lead to Dorothy still being sour on him. Or okay with him as a sex fling but still suspicious of him around Joyce. Or maybe she tried to ‘fix’ him and that went bad quickly.
I’ve had the same thought. Glad it’s not just me!
I’ve read this Dorothy’s speak a LOT of times, and NEVER thought about that. Shit, that changes everything!
I don’t know where she said she’d sex with three people.
When talking about Joyce’s comic where she talks about making Doris an amoral lust machine. I don’t know how to link comics here and I don’t intend to learn now but it is the one called Tension.
thank you.
Yeah joyce was talking about comic. Something about: Joyce-clone was was waiting for marriage. So dorothy-clone should be the complete opposite. So dorothy-clone should be a complete “hussy”.
At which point, dorothy said she’s only had sex with 3 people.
I can’t imagine her with Joe. At least not during the timeskip.
Maybe in high school, before Danny? But I doubt even that.
Yeah. Dorothy and Joe hooking up is wrong in so many ways.
Its like Padme and Chewbacca got together.
Wow. That IS disturbing.
First they have drinks while complaining about their less-intelligent and annoying partners…
So then he shrugs and says to me, i dont know, fly casual.
Thats nothing, mine tried to make a spontaneous beat love poem about how my skin isnt sand.
(They both laugh)
Joyce is gonna Manic Pixie Dream Girl Joe all over her stomach.
I dunno what that means and I’ll be honest, my mind just fills in the blanks with something quite lewd.
In that case, I’d say you understand completely.
One comic day = 1-3 months IRL is not going to quick for the few people who think her showing she’s leaning towards more than friends while she thinks about it is leading him on.
i’m too old/jaded for college-like romances (tho i don’t think i would’ve had the time/been stressed out from studying and would rather just do a platonic group hangout with friends) but i’d assume the teasing/playful flirting would be the “appeal” (and in comic time it’s only been like a day since their art class [or half if you don’t count the sleeping/overnight])
Dorothy is jelly because Joyce got her peanut butter in Joe’s chocolate.
She’s totally holding his hand!
Look, all due respect to Joe, I’m genuinely not trying to be Down on the guy, but I can’t help but notice a lot of folks taking issue with Dorothy’s hostility towards him when, for most of the time I’ve been reading the strip, he’s made it a point to be the biggest, most boorish asshole he can, ESPECIALLY when Dorothy’s around. I know he’s softened fairly recently, but do keep in mind said softening occurred in no small part as a direct consequence of his RECOGNIZING he was being a big boorish asshole. Again, I’m not trying to villify Joe here; I fully respect both that he’s improved by leaps and bounds, that even if he *hadn’t* he, like the rest of the cast, is just A Person Who Is Still Growing, and that there may be a more gracious way for Dorothy to handle this. But I’m also kinda sympathetic to Dorothy, who after all hasn’t exactly been having the best time of things lately AND who has an understandably Bad impression of Joe, acting a bit UNgraciously here, especially given said ungraciousness is really just Curtness right now.
Totally! I like that Joe said that friendship is also a good thing. I feel kike Joyce really values their friendship already. Him saying friendship is also great gives her room to not take him up on the romantic offer just because she fears it might lead to rejection of the friendship, too. If that makes sense.
Sure, but she seems to be taking it out on Joyce. If her beef is with Joe…
I genuinely don’t see how that’s happening? Joe’s only been with the two of them for a couple strips now, and in that time every single thing Dorothy has said in anger or frustration has been directed entirely at him (even the one instance where she’s talking to Joyce). I suppose one could say she’s ignoring Joyce unfairly, but that’s a bit different from her taking her anger OUT on Joyce. Which may yet end up being a thing that happens, in fairness; like I said above, Dorothy’s pretty clearly Not Doing Great right now just in general, so it wouldn’t exactly shock me if she winds up snapping here now that The Joe Factor is exacerbating things. But at least right now, I don’t really see how she’s doing that.
Wait, I misread it; she is taking it out on Joe. But still seems to think Joyce can’t decide anything for herself.
Hand-holding? I see Joyce has already begun her descent into debauchery.
Premarital hanky panky
Joyce, you’re playing with fire.
Illicit hand holding ACHIEVED.
Just a general note:
People you confess your affections to DO NOT owe you an immediate answer. Your feelings do not indebt them to: explain theirs, give you a chance, or completely shut you down.
Joyce’s answer was not a Yes and it was not a No, it was a “I want to enjoy my view for a bit” and Joe accepted that.
The number of people in these comments who think she should magically know how she’s feeling AND run headlong into a relationship just because Joe rang the dinner bell is truly astounding. There is room for grey in human interactions. Room to take time and know yourself.
Joe is perfectly capable of walking away if he doesn’t want to wait, but he isn’t doing that. Joyce is perfectly within her rights to have the interactions she is comfortable with, and if that makes Joe leave then he wasn’t the person for her anyway.
Joyce is not leading Joe on. Joe is sticking around and waiting to see. There’s nothing at all wrong with their dynamic right now, enjoy the Dorothy/Joe drama instead of trying to force Joe/Joyce drama instead. It’s right there!
seriously, she even told him such out loud
Exactly. He spelled out where he stands, now he’s letting Joyce set the pace on her terms. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Plus, he asked, and we saw the next thirty seconds afterwards and that was it.
I had a dream that I was watching Wednesday, and it was some kind of Dumbing of Age crossover. But now that I try to remember it, not any of the happenings in my dream, happened in DoA. It was fun, though!
That’ll be when Bloodrose finally makes her appearance.
Aww, look at Joe all nervous.
dorothy is just cranky everyones getting laid but her.
Chill, people. Joyce has been gone even more far with Joe. . Open the link with caution, it’s a very hot scene.
Getting his hands? Pff.
Is Dorothy angry because she suspects Joe is just trying to get into Joyce’s pants same as all his other hookups or is there more of a jealousy edge to it?
I’ve seen this theory before, and I’m not sure I buy it.
Like, I could totally buy Dorothy being jealous of Joyce’s new boyfriend if she had any reason to think that was happening. As it is, all she knows is that a dude she doesn’t like much has been invited to a lunch that was always going to be a group thing until everyone else bailed. It’s not like she ever expected this to be the BFFs-only girl lunch or anything. And I don’t think “Joyce and Joe are an item” is a possibility that would occur to her unless someone actually told her.
Having said that, the last time we saw Dorothy and Joyce together, Dorothy was pissed off because she kind of felt like Joyce was taking their friendship for granted, so I guess Joyce inviting someone else to lunch immediately it looks like it’s just the two of them won’t have helped.
And now I think about it, that must be worse when she doesn’t know about the Joyce/Joe ship. Like “Seriously? You’re so desperate to have literally anyone else there, you invited this guy?”
I don’t think “Joyce and Joe are an item” would occur to her. I don’t think she’s seen any sign of interest from Joyce’s side before and she knows that Joe doesn’t do “item”.
So, from her point of view, if Joe’s here it’s because he wants sex. In her experience, that’s Joe’s only reason to interact with women.
Probably both.
For me, Dorothy’s reaction is a little mad at Joe for his past behavior, and a little cranky that he is coming with them so she doesn’t have Joyce to herself, with a big dollop of Mom aggravation that Joyce insists on not following her advice and guidance, when Joyce *clearly* (in D’s mind) needs Mom guidance. So I think there is some Mom-exasperation in there too. Meanwhile, Joyce is figuring out things at her own pace and in her own way. Dorothy needs to take a big co-dependent step back.
Dorothy knows High School Joe, and she’s operating on the assumption that he still is High School Joe.
Oh my god they’re so sweet
I keep rereading this strip and I just really, really, *love* it. It is such a perfect execution of the comic strip form. This strip is telling us at least two stories, in five panels, and the visual punchline of the second panel being repeated but altered in the fifth panel is lovely. It’s visual poetry, and it’s a small, incomplete piece of a bigger story, and also a small, complete story about Joe and Joyce.
Joyce taking Joe’s hand in that last panel…that’s really beautiful. It really feels like these are two people who just have the whole unknown ahead of them, and they’re just beginning to consider the possibility of exploring it together. Willis, your art is! Makes me feel things! Is very. It is serving your characters and your story very well, that’s what it is.
“these were confusing times for Joe”
Everything commenters are saying makes sense, but I feel like the intensity of Dorothy’s anger still feels out of place. And Joe doesn’t seem the least surprised or confused by her deep antipathy, so I wonder if there’s still a piece from the time jump we’re missing.
Dorothy is going with the saying that a leopard can’t change its spots
and Joe has accepter his fuccboi status so he probably feels that it’s completely warranted
I can see two outcomes, because everyone has a limit to abuse, warranted or not : either he blows up at Dorothy and puts her back in her place, or he proves her right and goes back to his old fuccboi ways
Just to add: that “are you?” felt more to me like Dororthy thinks Joe is incapable of being a friend to HER, rather than worrying about his intentions vis a vis the female gender in general and/or Joyce
“that “are you?” felt more to me like Dororthy thinks Joe is incapable of being a friend to” dorothy.
Yeah. That sounded like a reference to some past betrayal. Maybe to her. Maybe to his best friend Danny?
I dont recall Joe betraying either of them. Is it time for a blue flashback?
Young Dorothy: im going to be president
Young Joe: federal judge, considered for scotus nomination, but passed over.
Ah. There it is. Betrayal that cuts deep.
Joyce enjoying being in charge for once
Oh, I just noticed the composition between panels 2 and 5.
Joe is here where one girl leaves him behind annoyed(?).
Joe is here where one girl brings him along teasingly(?).
Hehe, “six” is “sex” in the scandinavian countries. Friendsex
I’m glad they’re friends, but I definitely hope Joe and Joyce become more than “just friends” soon.
Joe knows that Dorothy has difficulties to believe he can be a friend with a girl. Probably she tried in the past and Joe was not interested, or maybe there’s some interesting story in the past of them we still don’t know.
Joe is really trying to do right. This appears to be his, um… first time. And Joyce is figuring out where her own feelings are. I’m rooting for them.
Can’t wait for the reveal on why Dorothy is being so negative about it.
My theory on Dorothy’s anger is that it’s specifically targeted on Joe’s motives with Joyce. If we include the previous comic’s context, Dorothy spends the whole sequence doubting and trying to discern Joe’s real reason for being there, and here he’s suggesting it’s because they’re friends. Dorothy knows Joe doesn’t really DO “just friends” with girls, plus Joyce is the one initially using “friends” to describe their relationship. For a skeptic who’s known Joe through HS, it wouldn’t be a stretch to read his awkward delivery and unease as him being evasive (instead of crushing while trying to give space), and he doesn’t have a great track record for female friendship. Dorothy considers Joyce to be wholly naïve, so I’m betting on this being her A: being protective of Joyce while trying not to directly parent her, and more importantly B: assuming Joe is trying to run some kind of play on one of the only women on campus willing to socialize with him beyond a quick lay.
they are super cute! me and my crush look like complete idiots together (in fact I probably look like a complete idiot and she just looks flawless)
I hope that there is some focus on Dorothy coming up. She seems to have a lot of negativity brimming over in her right now with no real outlet for it.
Joe: we are just friends?
Joyce: (grabs hand) come on!
A bit more than friends, i think.
This is basically edging.
Edging increases the internal pressure to be released when delayed gratification if finally had. Joyce is getting pregnant. The build-up is just too much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRDcwEsWo4
LEAVE HER, DOROTHY
LEAAAAAAVE HEEEEEEEER
Is she upset because she had thought she was friends with Joe prelist? Did she want to be friends with Joe but he was Joe and Danny was Dannying it up? Was she friends with someone he Joed? The world will know… in probably 2 yrs irl.
Best guess, it’s a combination of old friend that didn’t really keep up with it especially as she’s gone through all the stress. Then the damage of the leaked “do” list. And Proximity to Danny. Add that on top of her trying to make Joyce as hard and as much as possible before leaving for Yale and Joe is lucky she didn’t go amber on his ass.
Yknow what I love? I love when you associate with someone who has a veneer of sociality, under which is it quickly apparent they are a bit of a turd. But you associate with them anyway, with misgivings because of the turdness, but you’re a little bit locked into the social contract and they haven’t Done anything reprehensible Really- and THEN you find out that oh shit, they actually ARE a person and their turdness is also but a veneer and some sort of like. Defense mechanism often.
And then you have a friend
And then you have a friend (who maybe you’re called upon to defend because some people don’t ever get past their turdness and look fair tbh).
Also, I’m envious of Joyce. She doesn’t seem to feel like other people’s feelings are her responsibility. She didn’t get all twisted up about Becky, even when Sarah kinda prompted it, and she doesn’t seem to feel like she has much responsibility to Joe. As an ace baby and nerd catnip, I spent a lot of energy trying very hard to manage ppls expectations, cos I bought in HARD to the ‘don’t be a tease’ ‘friendzone’ bullshit.
Onya Joyce. It is Not Your Problem if other people make themselves uncomfortable over you. (gonna get ppl saying ‘she should still give him a clear answer’ and like, fine, but that’s a kindness on her part, and/or a recognition of the rest of their relationship, not something she OWES just cos Joe caught Feelings)
He’s asking a question and they are friends. Does she owe him an answer? Well, technically no, but it’s still a dick move not to give. They don’t owe you their friendship. They don’t owe you the courtesy to ask instead of just assuming and walking away. They don’t owe you anything either. But in this case, Joe is her friend, which means owed and expected are two different things. I expect my friends to be kind to me or have a good reason not to. If one of them started being a dick out of nowhere and told me I wasn’t owed kindnes, they wouldn’t be a friend anymore. You are a very selfish person if you think being an Ace also excuses you from basic courtesy and manners, as well as basic communication between individuals who are considered friends.
No one is owed anything. You aren’t owed kindness or sympathy for being Ace. You get that because other people are kind and have sympathy.
I’m surprised that’s what you got from this post, when the person is talking about how they feel responsible for other people crushing on them.
hehehe hand holding is my favorite so im delighted by this
That’s why she got a zero on his list. They were friends and he didn’t want anything that wasn’t casual.
Nah, it was the punching.
And it was a zero minus.
This just goes to show that Joe is a much better person that Danny. Joe is a child of divorce so he knows what kind of emotional damage a relationship can do to you. He has made his emotional boundaries clear from the beginning. He does know how to have a healthy relationship, since the beginning.
Joyce is enjoying playing with her food, which is cool. I do hope she tells Joe soon that she wants to keep playing with her food (and needs time to think of an answer) because Joe doesn’t deserve much tragedy. He has always been a fairly progressive character, at least in principle, and even if he was bad about things he tried to be good about them in a weird way.
She did tell him that. She told him she wanted to enjoy the view for a bit before answering.
Also, making a “do” list where you rate all the women in your life by their fuckability is ANYTHING but progressive.
He’s made strides forward, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t start as a misogynist.
Joe.exe has stopped working XD
Friends Episode VI: Return of the Friends?
Reading the past few panels while listening to “I want to stay at your house” from.Cyberpunk 2077. Feels hitting good here