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This is very cute, love these two, but I still am kinda confused about characters in comic going, “Yup, that’s true.” She hasn’t actually been diagnosed and isn’t at the point of self-identifying with it (though last panel, maybe she’s getting there). It’s not like she’s telling people she definitely is autistic.
When my Mom let slip that as a kid she was basically told by doctors that I was exactly like an autistic person but I couldn’t’ve been because that was only for boys, my entire friends group was startled to found out that I didn’t already have a formal diagnosis.
To be a little clearer, I don’t mean “confused” in the sense that “I think this is unrealistic,” more in that “I think this is a strange behavior.” Not sure that makes it clearer, but
The reliance on formal diagnosis casts autism as something mysterious and mystical, that only the initiated (doctors) can truly have insight into. It’s not. You don’t need a doctor to self-diagnose/home-diagnose things you’re closely familiar with that present clearly. I made a comparison with a broken leg below, here’s some more: common cold, food poisoning, a cut, a scrape, flu,
It’s not strange for someone to know their diagnosis before going to the doctor for the formal piece of paper that says it, and it’s also not strange for someone to not go to the doctor at all when they don’t feel the need for that piece of paper.
And autism is not a special divine mystery held apart from the more mundane situations, to the people who are sufficiently familiar with it in a mundane way.
Okay, I was going to let go of all the people misunderstanding me here, but for fuck’s sake! This is not what I was saying! Not even a little! Holy shit! I support self-diagnosis! That has not yet been what has happened in the comic! The strange part referred to her friends reaction! Fucking hell.
I think a couple of us are trying to point out why it isn’t weird for us because the exact thing happened in reality for a few of us. It’s like someone pointing out that isn’t it weird that people who live in apartments on tv have loud upstairs neighbors. It isn’t every time, but it’s common enough that it isn’t wierd.
It happened to me. When i told my friends i was autistic, the exact same ” oh that makes sense” reaction happened. It happened to my friend Nate too.
*sigh* I already said I didn’t mean “unrealistic.” The experience you’re describing is also different than what’s happening in the comic.
People respond in ways others find weird all the time! And that doesn’t mean that the person thinks it’s unrealistic or that they’ve never heard of such a thing.
I think it is a strange response to someone going “Here’s something someone suggested I check into that now I am wondering about myself” with, “Yes, that is definitely what you are.” “That makes sense” is a different level of response to that. “Here is something that I am” is a different setup than what’s happening.
When I was told I officially wasn’t autistic, pretty much everyone said “Okay, but that’s wrong, you should get a second opinon.” And it turned out (about a decade later) they were right — I hadn’t even been given a real autism test!
On the other hand: not as far as my friends went lol. I got quite a few variants of “wait, you mean you’re NOT already diagnosed???” and “yeah we knew that”, not even ‘oh shit it makes sense’, when I told my friends the school psychologist suggested it in high school.
When I was 19 and was like “Huh, I may have ADHD” everyone was like “ya THINK?!” As in, they didn’t even realize that I didn’t know this and had never been diagnosed, I was such a poster-child for inattentive type.
So yeah, this is a thing that happens.
Part of the thing about this is, it’s not like there’s a blood test or anything to find autism, so by the time you’ve jumped through enough hoops to even get to talk to experts, you are probably not going to be getting a surprise.
Sure Joyce hasn’t gone thought all that just yet, but the cast includes plenty of people who HAVE. Dina and Amber said it outright, but from her behavior I’m also betting on Sarah. Becky clearly knows from Dina. I don’t remember if Joe said anything, but his mom is diagnosed, so he has a source on it too.
Dorothy is being weird about it.
(Even though she’s probably also autistic, she’s clearly never either been diagnosed or done in-depth research on it)
My best friend makes fun of me because I dont have a gaydar (and as such, have COMPLETELY missed when I’m being hit on ) but I do have what I dubbed spectrumdar. I grew up surrounded by autistic people and usually within a couple minutes of meeting someone can figure it out, prediagnosis even. Sometimes when something is finally put to words, it just makes sense.
Also a lot of people take “a doctor told me this might be happening” as “this is happening.”
More than that though, Becky is reassuring Joyce here. Joyce certainly seems to believe the possibility is true.
tbf a few ppl are oblivious or not that self confident to assume someone’s hitting on them. On the flip side it’s annoying when you’re just being friendly and the other person thinks ur flirting.
Tho as long as the other person doesn’t think you’re uncomfortable i’d assume they’d go back to you another day and maybe ask on a more concrete date or attempt to be friends or so unless you are just hanging out at like a bar/places where you might not run into the same person again
Yeah, that’s why I always make it explicitly clear when I’m hitting on someone, to differentiate my normally kinda flirty personality. I have had people be shocked because they thought I was hitting on them and then just walked away without making a move or asking them out or whatever, but like when I hit on someone I *lead* with some direct expression of interest. Granted, it might not seem that way to some people because its also rare that I hit on someone I’ve only just met, because I don’t hit on people without developing an emotional attachment first and/or think we have compatible personalities and interests, but some people interpret the whole “make friends and get to know people” part as hitting on them and building up to asking them out, but that’s just how I treat all potential new friends.
I have also failed horribly at identifying when someone else is hitting on me, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever correctly identified it in the moment. I’d probably have had a girlfriend at some point by now if people would just clearly state their interest rather than dropping super subtle hints. Amusingly the only times I’ve had people be direct like that when hitting on me was when I received offers for casual sex, which is something I’m not interested in and yet it’s happened on 3 separate occasions with totally different women, I can’t get a date to save my life but apparently I could be drowning in sex if I was willing to put love aside. Unfortunately those women were all only looking for casual hook ups and I am not.
If it’s any consolation, people are really terrible at figuring out when other people are flirting. In some experiment, where people had to pick ‘is this person flirting, y/n’, people got it correct less than 50% of the time — as in, people were less accurate than if we’d picked randomly.
My flirtation starts with “I am flirting with you”. When I ask people out, I include “I am totally asking you out!” People have 100% always been glad that I was so direct.
This, this, this. If I ask someone out (particularly when they’re also femme since I am femme) I’m like “As a date, romantically, because you’re gorgeous.” No sense leaving grey areas.
I was once really excited in high school to talk to a fellow student about swords since I had grown up playing dnd like games like Baldur’s Gate (actually tried making my own quarterstaff when I was like 10), and he actually forged swords. One of his friends got mad at me because he thought that I was flirting with the guy, and the guy actually liked and wanted to date my best friend. Still don’t understand how I was flirting or why he was mad at me.
On the other hand, once thought someone was flirting with me in college only to find out that he was already dating someone and they were keeping it on the downlow because they didn’t want to be “annoying”. I’ve just given up on guessing unless someone explicitly states it now. I’ve been told recently to get tested for autism though, so that might be part of my issue.
Yeah. Hormones and learning and all. Still don’t even understand why flirting was a problem since she was dating someone else at the time so it wasn’t even enticement to cheat in any sense. Someone said that it might have been that the person that got mad was interesting in me, but yelling at me for “flirting” with someone he thinks should be dating my best friend is a weird way of showing it. I don’t know, teenage logic is weird.
So your best friend was already in a relationship when this happened? Yeah, that’s stupid. Like, it already would have been stupid, but that adds a layer.
Unfortunately, stupidity doesn’t always stop at high school, and I feel like I could see an adult on a reality TV show act in the same way.
One of the themes of this comic is that “adult” is a pretty arbitrary line. Yes, we have to draw one somewhere, but any accompanying assumption that the newly-minted “adults” are now fully competent and prepared for life is, well…
(Many – perhaps even most – never reach such a state, or feel that they have.)
Besides just being oblivious to flirting there is also the reaction to having previously been wrong about it. Not having no idea that someone is flirting with you, but thinking they are flirting with you, and then recalling all the times you thought that and were wrong. So you ignore it on the assumption you are just seeing something that isn’t there *again*.
And if they don’t come back later being more overt, that proves they weren’t flirting with you, right?
It can also be a fun see-saw of being off about IDing flirting sometimes, probably especially for AFAB, but possibly for anyone.
By this I mean, it makes sense to guard yourself against being wrong about people flirting with you if you thought someone was and were wrong about it in the past. It ALSO makes sense to guard yourself against being wrong about people flirting with you if you did not realize someone was flirting with you. Because some people will flirt with you and take polite responses or engagement as you being onboard with the flirting, or flirting back, and then think you’re okay with things that you ARE NOT okay with, or even get aggressive when you get to the point of saying “no” to something.
So then it’s fun calculations of “would it be worse if I assumed this person is flirting and they were not or if I assumed this person is not flirting and they were.”
And those people who were flirting with you are thinking that you recognized what they were doing, but didn’t respond in kind because you weren’t interested in them, so they’re certainly not going to come back more overtly because that would just be pushing themselves in when you’ve already rejected them.
‘Why do you think that’s true? He could just be half tree. Why assume he’s missing two arms and a leg?’
People are saying it because Joyce is painfully, obviously autistic to the point of it being apparent to anyone who knows about it. I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t see it until the diagnosis but she is definitely autistic. So people are saying ‘yup’ because it’s obviously true.
There was no diagnosis. Joyce also hasn’t said here that she thinks she’s autistic. I do think it’s fine to get to a “yes, this is the case” stance as the audience to a fictional world, though.
It’s not about the diagnosis as such, it’s about the possibility being brought up. “Oh hey I haven’t thought about it this way before but it’s TOTALLY true”
I guess I must have forgotten all of the comments prior to the doctor visit about Joyce being autistic. It seems strange to me to see so much enthusiasm for a diagnosis that, from my recollection, was not apparent.
All the in-universe comments about it or all the comment section comments about it? Because there were definitely commenters who suggested it in the past.
The need for a formal “diagnosis” of something that can only be determined though some level of subjectivity, especially something that is often disregarded (see Dina, Joe’s mom), is tricky. I think your point about Joyce not self-IDing as autistic is good to bring up because it does paint some of these reactions she’s gotten as somewhat insensitive. However, given that she’s getting diagnosed for something that isn’t (or shouldn’t be, at the very least) “treated” the way other conditions that necessitate a diagnosis (i.e. it’s something that necessitates understanding, support, and resources, rather than something that needs a cure or mitigation), having to wait for a formal diagnosis to receive those resources or get the understanding that might help her operate around her friends can be detrimental
And they’re not some kind of “you are now allowed to acknowledge it” magic ticket. I mean yeah, it’s impolite to just say “you’re autistic aren’t you” to someone out of the blue because of the long and unpleasant history of ableist use of the phrasing as an insult, but just it being brought up as a possibility in a non-insult way is enough of social context that you can acknowledge it without sounding like a dipshit.
And you don’t need to either be a doctor or the person themselves to notice clear patterns. Same way Joyce’s doctor who gave her the referral isn’t officially specialized in it, she just /knows about it/.
The whole diagnosis thing can be kind of a moving target. In the 80’s when I was getting my psych degree ADHD was just really starting to get a lot of discussion. It was the early 90’s before I had a patient where someone said, “Oh yeah, this kid’s autistic”. During that time the definition of ADHD and Autism Spectrum have been getting expanded and refined. It is better than it was 30 years ago but the average person on the street still doesn’t have a lot of insight.
A verifiable third-party diagnosis is totally and completely irrelevant unless we are talking about medication choices. Becky is cutting through all the clutter as if she were, well, Booster. The label is not supposed to help or shame Joyce, it is for helping others get on Joyce’s page better.
Frankly, given the basic Willis mouthpiece role of Joyce, this sounds like his spouse’s love declaration. What a fabulous way to put this into perspective.
To the original comment: I think it’s a) great that Becky is being supportive about it, and b) very normal and expected for everybody to just leap to the conclusion that this IS the one and only truth, based on their experience, and c) definitely not actually the best way to treat your friend with a pending diagnosis that she has complicated feelings about.
But all that’s like par for the course–well-meaning friends overdo it sometimes, and sometimes it’s lovable, like in this case, and sometimes it’s not. So i do get the confusion. I think the reaction of the majority of the friend group is realistic. it’s not ideal, but nothing is, and not-ideal things can come out good sometimes, anyway.
Like I spent most of my life being implicitly called autistic without ever being explicitly called autistic, and I think it’s because a lot of people in my life had a very binary view of autism so they never thought the term would fit, but I was always compared to fictional characters that I now see are autistic coded
“You don’t need to go to a doctor to diagnose a broken leg.”
I’m not sure that’s the best comparison. It’s not uncommon for someone to have a pain and not realise they’ve fractured a bone until they get an x-ray. Plus, broken bones have a very definitive and relatively easy to determine diagnosis.
(I’m not saying I disagree with your wider point, just that I think they are fundamentally different things to figure out.)
Allistic is just non-autistic, so they could still be allistic and otherwise neurodiverse. Sorry if you knew this and fully meant that you read them all as autistic.
Allistic just means “not autistic”. My therapist uses it to refer to my ADHD roommate when explaining why my roommate might think differently than me (an autistic person).
Eh. Becky was (is?) also extremely tapped into the progressive Twitterverse. For me, that’s a very convenient excuse to explain how Becky knows a lot of stuff her backstory doesn’t naturally explain. Not that she’s getting explanations from there, but certainly getting keywords to look up.
Gonna be real awkward when she never gets diagnosed cause the American medical system is a joke and we all live in a limbo of uncertainty over the diagnosis for forever.
Healthcare is ridiculous but unless you’re trying to also apply for benefits i don’t think you need an official diagnosis as long as you’re fine with yourself/know enough about your body/needs to be able to take care of yourself without someone needing to step in unless you have an injury or overwhelmed with personal stuff (and even then you shouldn’t have to pay for a test [on a lesser note i remember seeing ppl needing to pay for SATs/testing for college as well, and that’s already a money sink too])
I am not saying the American system is good. (per capita costs are way higher than in other western countries and millions of people do not have proper coverage). But Joyce is from a family that is relatively well off. I assume her father would have purchased decent health care insurance for the family.
Sometimes it’s not about the insurance. Consider what happened to Dina. It took her an enormous amount of effort to get a diagnosis simply because practitioners didn’t believe her or just assumed Asian = Bad At English
Universities also often 1) have health insurance that students automatically have to get and pay for unless they can prove other insurance, and 2) have counseling or psych centers that can do a diagnosis.
I’m still using dx paperwork I got from my university counseling center for no *extra* dollars on top of my tuition/fees lol.
Now she “just” needs to deal with all the non-monetary problems with autism diagnosis for adults!
Honestly, that’s more the time dilation of the comic. This isn’t an emergency situation, so getting a first appointment is reasonably at least a couple weeks
out and it would probably take at least couple of visits over a matter of months to get diagnosed. Problem is, in comic time, that’s a decade. And, as far as we know, Joyce hasn’t even tried to make that first appointment yet. She’s got a referral, but hasn’t acted on it.
Joyce’s family is well off. America’s medical system basically works if you’re at their level. That’s part of the problem with it.
Do you mean that in an “Americans are stuck in a DIY system because of greedy capitalist pigs” way, or in a “Damn kids these days, always gotta have a diagnosis instead of blaming themselves” way?
Those are the only two ways I’ve seen this idea expressed.
Possible joke based on the “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” idea that doing something yourself is more “American”? Closer to your first interpretation, but not as direct about the capitalist element.
Yes. God forbid someone *flips through notes* Acknowledges their own internal thoughts and experiences on which they are the sole expert and draw reasonable conclusions about themselves to use helpful tools.
It’s not the self-diagnosed people’s fault that they don’t have access to good mental and medical healthcare. I truly hope you weren’t faulting neurodivergent people for trying to understand and look after themselves before a doctor officially pinned the badge on their chest for a few thousand bucks.
o3o As someone who has had lots and lots of strangers insist to me that I may be neurodivergent I can relate. Though my mom insists I should at least get diagnosed before I start saying I am.
That’s sweet, NG. But really, the resources for getting oneself diagnosed vary from state to state, so I’d need more information. Most states do have a Developmental Disabilities Administration, which can even offer free evaluation, but one has to jump through so many hoops just to get qualified for diagnostic testing that most folks don’t make it that far. Especially for adults. It’s tough. One has to really fight for free testing and services, and for most adults, it’s just not worth the struggle.
This was all I could find as a nationwide resource for affordable ADHD testing. Looks like the state Department of Vocational Rehabilitation is the place to start, for someone looking for testing in connection with work accommodation and career services.
Hm, other than like younger ppl/around my age that are also the same, or maybe like a well educated/trained school teacher, IDK if i’d trust a stranger to necessarily have well intentioned/be non judgemental to observe someone they don’t know and like “Yeah, you’re clearly autistic” but i suppose it also depends on the city and such, same with being lgbt presenting
i suppose it’s fine as long as they dont’ impose medication on you
I know there is ADHD medicine to help concentration/energy but at the same time it’s too bad you cant only take them as needed as opposed to a montly refill (then again i suppose you could still go to the pharmacy monthly anyways and not be required to turn in an empty pill bottle or so, but i don’t rly know what the process is because i’m ‘rawdogging life’ as tehy say XP)
My point is more that it seems like Anon was concerned that a therapist/psychiatrist can make a person take meds, but luckily, that’s not how it works for ADHD.
Therapists and psychiatrists can give you facts so you can make informed choices, but they can’t make the choices for you on this one. If you’re an adult, it’s really up to you, to pick what to do about your own ADHD — whether that involves no meds, or if you only want the types of stimulants that you can take as needed, or if you want therapy + daily meds, or many other plans of your own choosing.
Regarding panel 3 – sir, I did NOT come here to be attacked like this!
And yes, boys and girls, self-diagnosis is valid. If you’ve researched matters, and read up, and sought outside opinions, and it still seems the most probable explanation, go ahead and call yourself what you want, because diagnosis can take years and cost thousands. For example, when my wife and I were still just engaged, I went to a nearby bookstore to check on their copy of the DSM-IV, then the current reference, to read up on chronic depression (from which she suffers). My sister had recently read an article about what was then called Asperger’s Syndrome, and decided that described me perfectly; I did not mention this to my wife, but I did copy the AS entry from the DSM-IV and show it to her, while heavily hinting I was wondering about a friend of ours. She read it, and asked if the opposite page was illustrated with my headshot. That’s good enough for me, especially after reading the entry on ASD in the DSM-V; it explains so very much about me, you see. (And no, I can’t lie worth a damn either. I don’t even try any more.)
Although I admire and support your method of self Diagnosis, I feel most people who do a “self diagnosis” have never heard of the DSM-IV but just read a blog post with “17 signs you may be [insert label here]” and have been riding confirmation bias ever since. Your method was way more thorough, although it would have been better to show your partner some other related pages too, so you can rule out her saying this because it matches 80%, if there’s another that matches more.
I always thought self diagnosis is to be shunned and discouraged. Leaving a diagnosis to the professionals still seems like the best choice, but seeing someone describe it as good as you do, likely living in the US based on the cost, makes me doubt that. Thanks for changing my mind.
This is a spectacularly terrible take. Self-diagnosis is often the only way someone can even begin to come to grips with the fact that they often feel alienated by their peers and by every adult they’ve ever met, because there are many barriers to getting an official diagnosis, which include cost (especially in the US), a failing medical system, systemic bias against AFABs, people of color, people over 18, and people with pre-existing disabilities, as well as a focus on a very specific set of behaviors that does not cover all autistic people, not even able-bodied white boys.
And say you manage to surmount all this and you get your diagnosis from a professional clinician. Congratulations! Now you have a piece of paper that says you can be discriminated against by insurance and employers, barred from immigrating to another country (including Canada up until 2018,) have your autonomy taken away and be placed under a conservatorship (like what happened with Britney Spears), have your kids taken away from you (and be barred from donating eggs or sperm), denied organ transplants and put on DNR orders against your consent.
Yeah, but the professionals are often bullheaded and don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about because they refuse to adapt to changes that have occured since they were fresh out of Professional School, though. If you can find one who actually keeps up with the latest findings and studies and suchwhat and isn’t holding onto obsolete biases, sure, trust ’em. And if it works out, all the better.
Self-diagnosis can go wrong by confirmation bias, which is why people who must depend on it have to exercise care. But that does not mean it is invalid. And ‘professionals’ often have favorite diagnoses and things they just don’t believe in. Like, even if it’s right in front of them.
Preferring to wear clothes that aren’t arbitrarily assigned to your perceived gender, that’s somehow a disorder? I knew people made fun of ya for it, but goddamn.
From the top result of a very lazy Google search, specifically psychcentral:
“Transvestic disorder is experiencing recurrent and intense sexual arousal, urges, and behavior from wearing clothes traditionally worn by a different gender. It is not a mental disorder. Instead, transvestic disorder falls under the umbrella term of paraphilia, any atypical sexual thoughts or erotic behavior.”
What I want to know is, why do we need an official diagnosis for (as they’re apparently describing it) a mild kink?
One cannot create a concept of “incorrect” functioning without inevitably creating alongside it a concept of what constitutes “correct” functioning, and given the shear diversity of individuals and their situations and corresponding functioning needs all over the world, ideally “mental disorder” should not have expanded beyond that which prevents all humans from meeting their most basic survival needs as individuals. But of course this is in contrast to the harsh reality, where individuals are stretched and crushed on the procrustean bed under the tyranny of “normal”.
And don’t you dare try and put burn cream on your red, puffy arm after you’ve scalded it with boiling water without going to the doctor with it first! At least not before getting an online diploma in medicine! Darn self-diagnosers these days.
Medicine is not magic. Sure, there are a lot of cases where you need to know the whole thing to not make a mistake (such as when prescribing medication), but autism is… actually not one of those. It’s not that complicated once you actually know things about it. You can say “my arm is broken” without going to the doctor first, and you can similarly say “I am autistic”.
I keep expecting people to keep their word, to act like the things they say matter, to live by the rules they set. I think that’s a big part of what makes it hard for autistics to fit in. I mean if people can’t accept me being bothered by dishonesty, and not letting them get away with it, I don’t want them to accept me.
So anyway I think the main difference between me and Joyce is my bullies taught me it wasn’t safe to care about anything, so I’m catching up with that at over twice her age.
I was “lucky” in getting diagnosed early. All that really meant was that I was a target for shitty educators, shitty kids, and shitty adults with even the slightest bit of power over me. I’m so glad that Joyce has a friend like Becky.
Being diagnosed late didn’t stop me from being a target for shitty educators, shitty kids, and shitty adults with even the slightest bit of power over me because they were targeting me for the traits I was showing not the label. They just didn’t use some of the slurs they would have used if they’d known my precise diagnosis. The R slur would have been (and was) used either way.
It did mean I spent most of my life blaming myself and thinking I was a failure because I kept trying to fit myself into a mold that was incompatible with me.
If I’d had the chance to learn proper coping strategies and built my strengths instead of spending so much effort trying to make myself do things I just can’t I might be a lot more successful than I am now.
That third bit there, the one about coping strategies and building strengths? Yeah, I feel that one. I feel that one deep in my bones. I’ve wasted so much time and effort trying to do things that literally cannot be done by this body and this brain, and I’ve got nothing to show for it. Meeting impossible demands is worthless and if anyone is still trying to force it, I encourage you to stop practicing this form of self-harm as soon as you can.
Yeah, not being diagnosed as a kid definitely didn’t keep me from being a target for bullies. They knew I acted differently from them, even if they (and I at the time too) didn’t know why.
I feel so seen. Being an undiagnosed *adult* also hasn’t keep me from being bullied and discriminated against. Earn weird looks and disparaging remarks from colleagues – Ask Me How! Not to mention ADHD in the mix.
I’ve built my collection of coping strategies (read: masking like hell), but that was through years of effort, errors, frustration, confusion, humiliation, and terrible self-esteem. Yay, great. /s
These kind of conversations are incredibly valuable for expanding awareness. I appreciate all of ya’ll’s experiences.
It has been so nice reading this comment section and feeling not-alone in struggling with meeting the unwritten unspoken societal norms.
Therapy has been great for me this past year – teaching me to choose what I value and what I want to grow in instead of looking at myself from what I perceive an outsider might and feeling I will never meet some ‘standard’ of put – togetherness.
Speaking from the other side of things, I’m fairly confident that my life would have been substantially worse if I hadn’t been diagnosed early. Partially because I was able to get accommodations that are probably the only reason I got through high school, but especially because I haven’t had to wonder why I have so much trouble making friends, or why I was so different from my classmates, or why I wasn’t able to make it through simple conversations without damn near having a panic attack. I had a word for all of that, so while it’s still hard, I knew I wasn’t alone, and I was able to embrace the more positive parts of being autistic sooner and more freely.
This isn’t to invalidate anyone who has been subject to the systemic abuse so often directed at autistic people, but my experience – and also a decent amount of research – shows that early diagnosis can make a huge positive difference in a person’s life.
I can remember one doctor banging on about “well, a label isn’t going to do you any good, is it?” It’s a damn sight better than the “labels” both other people and myself flung at me all the time. (He was a pretty awful doctor in other ways too. The last time I saw him he suggested I join a cult.)
Becky reminds me of my own 2 bffs, who’ve known me so long and well that they can help me see the positive when my mind is whirling with manky negatives. <3 ty so much for this!
As someone also ~unofficially~ on the spectrum, whose friends also basically said “yeah makes sense” when told, I am really loving this strip. Thanks for this, Willis.
Can we take a chainsaw to the idea that “thinking about your feelings instead of blurting out a reciprocation” and “playing games with people” are the same thing?
In this case, though, I don’t believe it was merely a matter of wanting to consider and be sure of her own feelings. Joyce was enjoying the rare experience (for her) of having power in a relationship. Which is fair… to a point.
The entire “truth first” thing is one thing that, going only by my personal experience, I recognize a lot among us autistics.
This is probably biased of me, but I keep feeling like I’m the only person in my vicinity who’s actually open to the idea that I might be wrong about stuff–even stuff that’s really important to my worldview. I keep reminding myself that “If the evidence shows that I’m wrong, then my instant reaction shouldn’t be to try to find some flaw that lets me discard the evidence (though looking at it critically is in itself fine), it should be to accept that I’m wrong, since me being wrong is in fact what the available evidence shows here and now.
What I mean is, my thing is that other people seem to have this entire thing going where, if they see proof that they’re wrong, they just go “Yeah well, okay, but it’s not as if I’m REALLY wrong.” And the common, recurring trait among at least some of the autistic people I know, including myself, is that we can acknowledge that maybe, we actually ARE wrong.
(Since opinions, by definition, can’t be objectively right or wrong, I want to clarify that what I mean by “acknowledging we are wrong” is “admitting that our opinion is based on defective data or faulty logic, or both”.)
A lot of people apparently find it easier to reject new facts that contradict their worldview than they do to update their worldview. Even if they personally experience something that utterly smashes their old worldview and categorically replaces it with something else – it won’t necessarily stick and the old, previously held schema can bounce back.
This seems like a really self-limiting way to live one’s life. How on earth do you grow and develop like that?!! How do you end up being the best version of yourself when you are literally working against your own best interests?!! But also, these people, probably have a lot of crossover with the people who view other people making different life choices for themselves as a criticism (rather an a result of THEM BEING DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT INTERESTS AND PRIORITIES).
But then I also identify as being at least vaguely scientifically minded and science is all about hypothesis – test – refine/reject. If your hypothesis doesn’t stand up to challenges, it isn’t a good hypothesis. Even if it’s useful for explaining some aspects of a phenomenon, that doesn’t mean it’s accurate, correct, complete, or will always hold true under all conditions, and that a better explanation won’t replace it down the line. Sure, be prepared to defend a position, but keep an open mind!!
“the people who view other people making different life choices for themselves as a criticism”
Gods, this one in particular is so friggin’ irritating. Ya can’t just exist separately without it being a Whole Thing and an attack on their personal pride or whatever. And they always have to turn into a pushy door-to-door salesperson over it, too. I’ve told so many people I was gonna do whatever gibberish they’d noised at me, just to shut them the fuck up, and then if they ask about it later, I just pretend I forgot.
I should be used to people lying by now but every time it’s a big shock to me. So while I can sort of lie (badly) it just feels so unnatural and horrible to me. Even little social lies
I learned early on to just assume everyone is always lying about everything, no matter how well I know them, how sincere they sound, or how low the stakes are.
Becky is so freaking adorable when she gets to affirm someone. It’s like there’s a whole world of love in there just waiting for a chance to burst out.
When Paul wrote of speaking the truth in love he was thinking of Becky. True story.
It’s amazing how in just a few days of comic -time we have gone from a “fight” between Joyce and Becky (over Becky overhearing Joyce talking negatively about religion) to them being mutually supportive (with them calling each other “smart” and Becky trying to make Joyce feel better)
I’ve been going through reconciliation of a sort with a formerly best friend and it has been uncertain and months in the making and, still, the level of trust will never be the same. I think good communication and connecting after being afraid you might never talk again is always a thing to celebrate!
I’m a little mystified by the “autistics cannot lie” trope. I’m not remotely an expert, but I’ve never heard of it as part of formal definitions or self-diagnostic criteria.
The general idea is, I think, that autistic people are overall more likely to hold to our values and be honest, even when it harms us. Not necessarily a literal “Autism means you cannot ever lie”.
Hell, I lie constantly and for no reason, because it’s funny to piss off people who expect my every sentence to be 1:1 with their perceived reality just because they know I’m autistic.
It’s not really that they can’t lie, it’s that a lot of autistic people have a harder time becoming good at lying, because of how they process social clues.
And of course that’s painting with a very wide brush, everyone is different, yadda yadda, hey, was George Washington autistic?
The cherry tree had it coming. If you ever get the chance, look into that tree’s history, there’s a surprising amount of documentation and a lot of it is…kinda yikes. Like, that cherry tree was a real piece of work.
It’s actually super funny that a story meant to highlight George Washington’s honesty was a lie that some biographer made up.
Also, when I was in 1st grade, my teacher asked the class if anyone knew the story about George Washington, and I raised my hand and shared the cherry tree story, and she said, “No, the story is that he was our first president.” Like, percussion instrument, that’s not a story, that’s just a fact.
It’s hard work to invent a plausible lie, and more and harder work to keep it going. I think Mark Twain said something about liars having so much more they have to remember. Why knock yourself out when you can just tell the truth and let the world keep the records?
Or you can take the modern Trumpist approach and just not bother to make it plausible or remember to keep it straight. If anyone calls you on it, just come up with another lie.
One time I won a game of Werewolf because my cousin fully believed I couldn’t lie. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not good at lying – nor, by extension, find the traitor games – but still, I was underestimated.
Autistic people can definitely lie, but the instinct is to be straightforward most of the time, at least in my experience. It’s just easier. Like, socialing is hard, and telling the truth is a lot less effort.
Not just the baseline autistic talking effort + the effort an allistic would need to put into lying, either. To lie believably you need to model in your head how the other person sees you and fit your words and behavior into that. An allistic person does that easily, as their model for (most) other people and what they themselves are like in the eyes of other people align. An autistic person experiences a harsh disconnect there (the way the stories, books, other people tell them people are is NOT the way they are), and so actually managing a correct model and following it for a lie is an advanced, special skill.
If people already don’t believe me when I tell the truth, why should I even TRY lying?
(Of course, there’s the “nudging the truth to be more believable” sort of lie, the one you don’t even quite register as a lie since it’s just “explaining things in an understandable way”…)
So, at 34, in rehab, someone asked whether I might be autistic. But although it’s horrible to say so, male autistics, to a male autistic, seem not really valid? Whatever “valid” means? Anyway, fuck Raen.
Sorry, I’m still not quite sure what you’re saying. Also, are you calling yourself “it”, or are you comparing diagnosed (“real”) autism with undiagnosed (“alleged”) autism?
My best guess is that the first comment was saying someone has suggested he might be autistic, but he has trouble feeling valid in applying the autistic label to himself? Like how someone might not feel valid identifying as trans because other people are “more trans” (whatever that means). (This example based on my personal experience.)
Second comment, possible typo or autocorrect changing “I’m” to “It’s”? Not sure exactly what the relation is supposed to be between “allegedly autistic,” “undiagnosed,” and “properly autistic.”
My initial response was, “Ooooooh, okay. Fuck you, then.”
But I’m still not sure if you’re referring to yourself? Which, if you are, I think it’s totally fine to use “it” pronouns, but also, give yourself some grace, and consider how the way you tear yourself down in public spaces might accidentally splash onto others.
But if you’re referring to someone else, yeah, back to the first response.
Who else? Sorry, no, it was referring to itself. It might call itself a human, but if it is, the only ones worse have names beginning with H, S, M, and P. So you were right in you initial paragraph. It thanks you!
It seems like you’re really having a difficult time– and that “having a difficult time” might be the norm for you, but it shouldn’t be and I wish it wasn’t. Can I ask about what support systems you have in your life?
Sorry but I can’t help reading Becky as saying that Joyce always deeply cared about the Alabama Christian band more than dumb Elgar music or Dick Wolf’s TV procedural or the Lana Del Rey’s song itself.
I have a formal ADHD diagnosis and it was super expensive and difficult and it didn’t do me a damn bit of good ever. And now it is becoming clear I have some autistic traits and I’m 65 and what’s the point? I’ve wasted huge energy all my life trying to fit in and be normal, and I’ll never know what I could have been if I hadn’t bothered with that.
In the US, more than half the diagnostic process is aimed at satisfying the insurance company.
I sent this to my friend. Her child recently (finally) got diagnosed as autistic with ADHD instead of just anxious and the same week the child came out as nonbinary. Big week for my little nibling!
The school has been incredibly accepting which we were both surprised about. They have forms they fill out with the student to get their preferred gender, pronouns, names, and safe persons at school. There’s also a section to put if parent or guardian a/b know and are supportive and if the school can use the students preferred name and pronouns of they have to contact said parent of guardian about the student.
All of this is very beautiful and sweet. But the wayBecky’s constant getting closer to Joyce makes me fear that the love she feels for her is blinding her and that in the next strip she’ll try to kiss Joyce without even realizing what she’s doing
Plus that would be out of character for Becky given A. Dina, B. Joyce’s reaction to being kissed without permission is probably one of Becky’s top 5 most traumatic moments (and she has been through a LOT).
What is one thing you wish you had been told/ had been different/ had been understood about you growing up autistic? Or a really positive encounter that made a big difference?
Curious to get some perspectives from commenters. I’m a speech language therapist that works with autistic children and am some flavour of neurodiverse myself. I love working with my kids and a big part of my job is advocation.
If there was one thing I wish was different growing up autistic, it’s that I wish there were more spaces – particularly social spaces – that were explicitly designed for and welcoming to autistic kids. Making and keeping friends is hard when you’re autistic, but it gets easier when you’re around other autistic people. More generally, a lot of the autistic experience is having to learn to navigate an allistic world, so it would have been nice to have a place where I didn’t have to for a bit.
As for a positive encounter, every teacher I had (I was lucky enough to have a few) who believed in me despite my bad grades, who consistently gave me chances to succeed, who indulged me when I went on a tangent during class, who made their classrooms safe spaces from bullying – they made a big difference.
So many of my teenaged ambitions depended on me understanding people at an intuitive level, and I wish I had realized that that would be impossible for me much sooner.
Here’s a big one, and anybody here who works with autistic kids is free to use it: “You don’t have to be friends with them if you don’t want to. Don’t say yes just because you don’t have other friends right now.”
Bad friends are worse than no friends, even if it does get lonely sometimes. A real bond can’t be forced, no matter how much you debase yourself trying.
I wish I’d known what “autistic” is enough to realize I fit that box in a way I never fit the ones I saw. I wish I’d known – and I wish my mom had known – what “ADHD” is, too. And yes, it’s relevant. Being autistic AND the degree of ADHD that I am at the same time has led to an absolutely… incredible experience, in a very literal sense of nobody believing my experiences to be possible.
One time I told an adult that I read books and so I’m weird. They were like “of course that’s not weird!” and it felt very affirming up until I was back with other kids and was actually definitely weird again. And didn’t know anything other than books (constant hyperfixation bait) to associate it with.
Yeah, I was confused too? I went to bed after commenting, and when I saw your comment was gone in the morning, I assumed I had missed some drama during the night or something.
As a 34-year old who grew up in an extremely religious household, discovered I was an atheist in my late teens, and is in the process of learning I’m probably autistic… comics like this are wonderful and reaffirming to me. I’ve been following DoA since the beginning and I think this is my first time feeling strongly enough to leave a comment. Thank you so much for your work and your art, David. <3
Me if I ever see Tony Hawk: Hey you’re Tony Hawk the famous skateboarder. That’s right I recognise you. Won’t be able to get any content out of this will you, you piece of shit
How to read all 28 issues of my Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane run on Marvel Unlimited:
1: The first four issues were published as the miniseries "Mary Jane."
www.marvel.com/comics/serie...
today in #9chickweedlane i learned we have to be shown children learning and relearning what sex is, for Reasons, even though they already clearly know and have prepared nuanced questions about it!
also that Gran must hate, if she's still alive, how Old Juliette is the same but with gray hair
one of my favorite things is when a commenter explodes WHEN DO THESE CHARACTERS GET THERAPY but directed towards a character who canonically has a regular therapist
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 12d
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This is very cute, love these two, but I still am kinda confused about characters in comic going, “Yup, that’s true.” She hasn’t actually been diagnosed and isn’t at the point of self-identifying with it (though last panel, maybe she’s getting there). It’s not like she’s telling people she definitely is autistic.
Sometimes “this might be what’s happening” strikes people as immediately correct enough to say “yeah that’s what’s happening”
Yeah, but this is a weird circumstance for that, for me. Like, I could see being like, “That would make sense.” But they’re going a little far.
When my Mom let slip that as a kid she was basically told by doctors that I was exactly like an autistic person but I couldn’t’ve been because that was only for boys, my entire friends group was startled to found out that I didn’t already have a formal diagnosis.
To be a little clearer, I don’t mean “confused” in the sense that “I think this is unrealistic,” more in that “I think this is a strange behavior.” Not sure that makes it clearer, but
The reliance on formal diagnosis casts autism as something mysterious and mystical, that only the initiated (doctors) can truly have insight into. It’s not. You don’t need a doctor to self-diagnose/home-diagnose things you’re closely familiar with that present clearly. I made a comparison with a broken leg below, here’s some more: common cold, food poisoning, a cut, a scrape, flu,
It’s not strange for someone to know their diagnosis before going to the doctor for the formal piece of paper that says it, and it’s also not strange for someone to not go to the doctor at all when they don’t feel the need for that piece of paper.
And autism is not a special divine mystery held apart from the more mundane situations, to the people who are sufficiently familiar with it in a mundane way.
Okay, I was going to let go of all the people misunderstanding me here, but for fuck’s sake! This is not what I was saying! Not even a little! Holy shit! I support self-diagnosis! That has not yet been what has happened in the comic! The strange part referred to her friends reaction! Fucking hell.
I think a couple of us are trying to point out why it isn’t weird for us because the exact thing happened in reality for a few of us. It’s like someone pointing out that isn’t it weird that people who live in apartments on tv have loud upstairs neighbors. It isn’t every time, but it’s common enough that it isn’t wierd.
It happened to me. When i told my friends i was autistic, the exact same ” oh that makes sense” reaction happened. It happened to my friend Nate too.
*sigh* I already said I didn’t mean “unrealistic.” The experience you’re describing is also different than what’s happening in the comic.
People respond in ways others find weird all the time! And that doesn’t mean that the person thinks it’s unrealistic or that they’ve never heard of such a thing.
I think it is a strange response to someone going “Here’s something someone suggested I check into that now I am wondering about myself” with, “Yes, that is definitely what you are.” “That makes sense” is a different level of response to that. “Here is something that I am” is a different setup than what’s happening.
Once again, weird =/= unrealistic.
Yeah, this tracks for me.
When I was told I officially wasn’t autistic, pretty much everyone said “Okay, but that’s wrong, you should get a second opinon.” And it turned out (about a decade later) they were right — I hadn’t even been given a real autism test!
On one hand: yeah, perhaps a bit far.
On the other hand: not as far as my friends went lol. I got quite a few variants of “wait, you mean you’re NOT already diagnosed???” and “yeah we knew that”, not even ‘oh shit it makes sense’, when I told my friends the school psychologist suggested it in high school.
When I was 19 and was like “Huh, I may have ADHD” everyone was like “ya THINK?!” As in, they didn’t even realize that I didn’t know this and had never been diagnosed, I was such a poster-child for inattentive type.
So yeah, this is a thing that happens.
Part of the thing about this is, it’s not like there’s a blood test or anything to find autism, so by the time you’ve jumped through enough hoops to even get to talk to experts, you are probably not going to be getting a surprise.
I can see that, but it’s also not the situation here.
Sure Joyce hasn’t gone thought all that just yet, but the cast includes plenty of people who HAVE. Dina and Amber said it outright, but from her behavior I’m also betting on Sarah. Becky clearly knows from Dina. I don’t remember if Joe said anything, but his mom is diagnosed, so he has a source on it too.
Dorothy is being weird about it.
(Even though she’s probably also autistic, she’s clearly never either been diagnosed or done in-depth research on it)
My best friend makes fun of me because I dont have a gaydar (and as such, have COMPLETELY missed when I’m being hit on
) but I do have what I dubbed spectrumdar. I grew up surrounded by autistic people and usually within a couple minutes of meeting someone can figure it out, prediagnosis even. Sometimes when something is finally put to words, it just makes sense.
Also a lot of people take “a doctor told me this might be happening” as “this is happening.”
More than that though, Becky is reassuring Joyce here. Joyce certainly seems to believe the possibility is true.
tbf a few ppl are oblivious or not that self confident to assume someone’s hitting on them. On the flip side it’s annoying when you’re just being friendly and the other person thinks ur flirting.
Tho as long as the other person doesn’t think you’re uncomfortable i’d assume they’d go back to you another day and maybe ask on a more concrete date or attempt to be friends or so unless you are just hanging out at like a bar/places where you might not run into the same person again
Yeah, that’s why I always make it explicitly clear when I’m hitting on someone, to differentiate my normally kinda flirty personality. I have had people be shocked because they thought I was hitting on them and then just walked away without making a move or asking them out or whatever, but like when I hit on someone I *lead* with some direct expression of interest. Granted, it might not seem that way to some people because its also rare that I hit on someone I’ve only just met, because I don’t hit on people without developing an emotional attachment first and/or think we have compatible personalities and interests, but some people interpret the whole “make friends and get to know people” part as hitting on them and building up to asking them out, but that’s just how I treat all potential new friends.
I have also failed horribly at identifying when someone else is hitting on me, in fact I don’t think I’ve ever correctly identified it in the moment. I’d probably have had a girlfriend at some point by now if people would just clearly state their interest rather than dropping super subtle hints. Amusingly the only times I’ve had people be direct like that when hitting on me was when I received offers for casual sex, which is something I’m not interested in and yet it’s happened on 3 separate occasions with totally different women, I can’t get a date to save my life but apparently I could be drowning in sex if I was willing to put love aside. Unfortunately those women were all only looking for casual hook ups and I am not.
If it’s any consolation, people are really terrible at figuring out when other people are flirting. In some experiment, where people had to pick ‘is this person flirting, y/n’, people got it correct less than 50% of the time — as in, people were less accurate than if we’d picked randomly.
My flirtation starts with “I am flirting with you”. When I ask people out, I include “I am totally asking you out!” People have 100% always been glad that I was so direct.
This, this, this. If I ask someone out (particularly when they’re also femme since I am femme) I’m like “As a date, romantically, because you’re gorgeous.” No sense leaving grey areas.
I was once really excited in high school to talk to a fellow student about swords since I had grown up playing dnd like games like Baldur’s Gate (actually tried making my own quarterstaff when I was like 10), and he actually forged swords. One of his friends got mad at me because he thought that I was flirting with the guy, and the guy actually liked and wanted to date my best friend. Still don’t understand how I was flirting or why he was mad at me.
On the other hand, once thought someone was flirting with me in college only to find out that he was already dating someone and they were keeping it on the downlow because they didn’t want to be “annoying”. I’ve just given up on guessing unless someone explicitly states it now. I’ve been told recently to get tested for autism though, so that might be part of my issue.
In high school, everyone think everything is flirting. It got old.
Yeah. Hormones and learning and all. Still don’t even understand why flirting was a problem since she was dating someone else at the time so it wasn’t even enticement to cheat in any sense. Someone said that it might have been that the person that got mad was interesting in me, but yelling at me for “flirting” with someone he thinks should be dating my best friend is a weird way of showing it. I don’t know, teenage logic is weird.
So your best friend was already in a relationship when this happened? Yeah, that’s stupid. Like, it already would have been stupid, but that adds a layer.
Unfortunately, stupidity doesn’t always stop at high school, and I feel like I could see an adult on a reality TV show act in the same way.
One of the themes of this comic is that “adult” is a pretty arbitrary line. Yes, we have to draw one somewhere, but any accompanying assumption that the newly-minted “adults” are now fully competent and prepared for life is, well…
(Many – perhaps even most – never reach such a state, or feel that they have.)
“Adult” is a verb and you basically do it when you have to.
Besides just being oblivious to flirting there is also the reaction to having previously been wrong about it. Not having no idea that someone is flirting with you, but thinking they are flirting with you, and then recalling all the times you thought that and were wrong. So you ignore it on the assumption you are just seeing something that isn’t there *again*.
And if they don’t come back later being more overt, that proves they weren’t flirting with you, right?
It can also be a fun see-saw of being off about IDing flirting sometimes, probably especially for AFAB, but possibly for anyone.
By this I mean, it makes sense to guard yourself against being wrong about people flirting with you if you thought someone was and were wrong about it in the past. It ALSO makes sense to guard yourself against being wrong about people flirting with you if you did not realize someone was flirting with you. Because some people will flirt with you and take polite responses or engagement as you being onboard with the flirting, or flirting back, and then think you’re okay with things that you ARE NOT okay with, or even get aggressive when you get to the point of saying “no” to something.
So then it’s fun calculations of “would it be worse if I assumed this person is flirting and they were not or if I assumed this person is not flirting and they were.”
And those people who were flirting with you are thinking that you recognized what they were doing, but didn’t respond in kind because you weren’t interested in them, so they’re certainly not going to come back more overtly because that would just be pushing themselves in when you’ve already rejected them.
‘I think that man is missing two arms and a leg.’
‘Yup that’s true.’
‘Why do you think that’s true? He could just be half tree. Why assume he’s missing two arms and a leg?’
People are saying it because Joyce is painfully, obviously autistic to the point of it being apparent to anyone who knows about it. I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t see it until the diagnosis but she is definitely autistic. So people are saying ‘yup’ because it’s obviously true.
There was no diagnosis. Joyce also hasn’t said here that she thinks she’s autistic. I do think it’s fine to get to a “yes, this is the case” stance as the audience to a fictional world, though.
It’s not about the diagnosis as such, it’s about the possibility being brought up. “Oh hey I haven’t thought about it this way before but it’s TOTALLY true”
I guess I must have forgotten all of the comments prior to the doctor visit about Joyce being autistic. It seems strange to me to see so much enthusiasm for a diagnosis that, from my recollection, was not apparent.
All the in-universe comments about it or all the comment section comments about it? Because there were definitely commenters who suggested it in the past.
The need for a formal “diagnosis” of something that can only be determined though some level of subjectivity, especially something that is often disregarded (see Dina, Joe’s mom), is tricky. I think your point about Joyce not self-IDing as autistic is good to bring up because it does paint some of these reactions she’s gotten as somewhat insensitive. However, given that she’s getting diagnosed for something that isn’t (or shouldn’t be, at the very least) “treated” the way other conditions that necessitate a diagnosis (i.e. it’s something that necessitates understanding, support, and resources, rather than something that needs a cure or mitigation), having to wait for a formal diagnosis to receive those resources or get the understanding that might help her operate around her friends can be detrimental
Sure, and in no way was I suggesting otherwise. I’m just saying that neither of these things (formal diagnosis or self-IDing) are the case.
And they’re not some kind of “you are now allowed to acknowledge it” magic ticket. I mean yeah, it’s impolite to just say “you’re autistic aren’t you” to someone out of the blue because of the long and unpleasant history of ableist use of the phrasing as an insult, but just it being brought up as a possibility in a non-insult way is enough of social context that you can acknowledge it without sounding like a dipshit.
And you don’t need to either be a doctor or the person themselves to notice clear patterns. Same way Joyce’s doctor who gave her the referral isn’t officially specialized in it, she just /knows about it/.
The whole diagnosis thing can be kind of a moving target. In the 80’s when I was getting my psych degree ADHD was just really starting to get a lot of discussion. It was the early 90’s before I had a patient where someone said, “Oh yeah, this kid’s autistic”. During that time the definition of ADHD and Autism Spectrum have been getting expanded and refined. It is better than it was 30 years ago but the average person on the street still doesn’t have a lot of insight.
In the UK, there seems to have been a sudden rise in diagnoses in kids with non-“classic” autism born a year or two after me….
A verifiable third-party diagnosis is totally and completely irrelevant unless we are talking about medication choices. Becky is cutting through all the clutter as if she were, well, Booster. The label is not supposed to help or shame Joyce, it is for helping others get on Joyce’s page better.
Frankly, given the basic Willis mouthpiece role of Joyce, this sounds like his spouse’s love declaration. What a fabulous way to put this into perspective.
To the original comment: I think it’s a) great that Becky is being supportive about it, and b) very normal and expected for everybody to just leap to the conclusion that this IS the one and only truth, based on their experience, and c) definitely not actually the best way to treat your friend with a pending diagnosis that she has complicated feelings about.
But all that’s like par for the course–well-meaning friends overdo it sometimes, and sometimes it’s lovable, like in this case, and sometimes it’s not. So i do get the confusion. I think the reaction of the majority of the friend group is realistic. it’s not ideal, but nothing is, and not-ideal things can come out good sometimes, anyway.
Thanks for this comment. I wholeheartedly agree.
I can see it honestly.
Like I spent most of my life being implicitly called autistic without ever being explicitly called autistic, and I think it’s because a lot of people in my life had a very binary view of autism so they never thought the term would fit, but I was always compared to fictional characters that I now see are autistic coded
You don’t need to go to a doctor to diagnose a broken leg.
Sometimes, if you know enough about it, being autistic is the same way.
(Dorothy is being weird about it. Most other people actually do know things on the topic and are not )
“You don’t need to go to a doctor to diagnose a broken leg.”
I’m not sure that’s the best comparison. It’s not uncommon for someone to have a pain and not realise they’ve fractured a bone until they get an x-ray. Plus, broken bones have a very definitive and relatively easy to determine diagnosis.
(I’m not saying I disagree with your wider point, just that I think they are fundamentally different things to figure out.)
You sure made a lot of comments to agree against things I wasn’t saying.
That compliment kinda got away from you, didn’t it Becky?
Joyce is autistic, and you’re an adorable smol brain human dumdum, complete with hair like Philip J. Fry!
it’s the
rainautismIt’s the norms we all have to endure
We berate it, but it’s each eyepop and word from your face that traces out who you are.
The parallel occured to me as well. Willis’s comics have their moments and this is one of them.
It’s the 1988 Best Picture.
It’s an age-old offensive stereotype (-_-), along with Sheldon Cooper.
It’s a reference to Joyce and Walky.
sauce? I thought Rain Main came out in 1988
The famous “It’s the rain” speech:
https://www.itswalky.com/comic/its-the-rain/
Ah, classic.
Fuck Raen.
Raen a Sul hant Meth-maren was only getting her just revenge on the Suil sept that murdered her family.
OTOH, she does own slaves and sleep with them. So, you’re right.
(We’re talking about the protagonist of “Serpent’s Reach” by CJ Cherryh, right?)
That, or a typo for “Raven” some probably-not-autistic male made over a decade ago.
This is the wrongest Becky has ever been about anything.
None of Joyce’s friends are friggin’ allistic
Allistic is just non-autistic, so they could still be allistic and otherwise neurodiverse. Sorry if you knew this and fully meant that you read them all as autistic.
Allistic just means “not autistic”. My therapist uses it to refer to my ADHD roommate when explaining why my roommate might think differently than me (an autistic person).
Naw none of her friends are RE-Alistic. I think they’re exaggerated comic characters.
I wish I read the replies to this before looking up the word Allistic.
Honestly just the fact that Becky knows the word “allistic” is a pretty good sign that she and Dina have talked about it, then.
Anyway I’m gonna go cry now
Eh. Becky was (is?) also extremely tapped into the progressive Twitterverse. For me, that’s a very convenient excuse to explain how Becky knows a lot of stuff her backstory doesn’t naturally explain. Not that she’s getting explanations from there, but certainly getting keywords to look up.
Ah, yeah, there’s my girls <3
I've missed the sweet moments with these two.
Gonna be real awkward when she never gets diagnosed cause the American medical system is a joke and we all live in a limbo of uncertainty over the diagnosis for forever.
Same. I can’t forsee myself getting diagnosed any time soon. Mostly cuz of money but also just like…I dunno seems like a pain.
Healthcare is ridiculous but unless you’re trying to also apply for benefits i don’t think you need an official diagnosis as long as you’re fine with yourself/know enough about your body/needs to be able to take care of yourself without someone needing to step in unless you have an injury or overwhelmed with personal stuff (and even then you shouldn’t have to pay for a test [on a lesser note i remember seeing ppl needing to pay for SATs/testing for college as well, and that’s already a money sink too])
I am not saying the American system is good. (per capita costs are way higher than in other western countries and millions of people do not have proper coverage). But Joyce is from a family that is relatively well off. I assume her father would have purchased decent health care insurance for the family.
Sweet, the insurance can cover $5 and Joyce can pay the other $35k.
Also I think the Browns were in a community where the approach to Autism would be to put more faith in Jesus.
Conveniently, that’s their approach to many problems.
The family approach to autism would probably be bad, but that doesn’t mean the insurance Hank got through his dental practice wouldn’t cover it.
IDK, he’s also undiagnosed.
Sometimes it’s not about the insurance. Consider what happened to Dina. It took her an enormous amount of effort to get a diagnosis simply because practitioners didn’t believe her or just assumed Asian = Bad At English
Universities also often 1) have health insurance that students automatically have to get and pay for unless they can prove other insurance, and 2) have counseling or psych centers that can do a diagnosis.
I’m still using dx paperwork I got from my university counseling center for no *extra* dollars on top of my tuition/fees lol.
Now she “just” needs to deal with all the non-monetary problems with autism diagnosis for adults!
Honestly, that’s more the time dilation of the comic. This isn’t an emergency situation, so getting a first appointment is reasonably at least a couple weeks
out and it would probably take at least couple of visits over a matter of months to get diagnosed. Problem is, in comic time, that’s a decade. And, as far as we know, Joyce hasn’t even tried to make that first appointment yet. She’s got a referral, but hasn’t acted on it.
Joyce’s family is well off. America’s medical system basically works if you’re at their level. That’s part of the problem with it.
Mood.
She just needs to diagnose herself. That’s the American way.
Oh, shush. I diagnose you with Terminal Melvin Syndrome.
Do you mean that in an “Americans are stuck in a DIY system because of greedy capitalist pigs” way, or in a “Damn kids these days, always gotta have a diagnosis instead of blaming themselves” way?
Those are the only two ways I’ve seen this idea expressed.
Possible joke based on the “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” idea that doing something yourself is more “American”? Closer to your first interpretation, but not as direct about the capitalist element.
Yes. God forbid someone *flips through notes* Acknowledges their own internal thoughts and experiences on which they are the sole expert and draw reasonable conclusions about themselves to use helpful tools.
It’s not the self-diagnosed people’s fault that they don’t have access to good mental and medical healthcare. I truly hope you weren’t faulting neurodivergent people for trying to understand and look after themselves before a doctor officially pinned the badge on their chest for a few thousand bucks.
Oh this is sweet ;;
Meet Becky, the deliverer of sweet, profound and heart-warming words.
I thought it’s Hannah, not Friggin’
Becky leaning closer and closer doesn’t scare me, but the preview description for tomorrow does.
o3o As someone who has had lots and lots of strangers insist to me that I may be neurodivergent I can relate. Though my mom insists I should at least get diagnosed before I start saying I am.
Someone flash the Laura signal!
That’s sweet, NG. But really, the resources for getting oneself diagnosed vary from state to state, so I’d need more information. Most states do have a Developmental Disabilities Administration, which can even offer free evaluation, but one has to jump through so many hoops just to get qualified for diagnostic testing that most folks don’t make it that far. Especially for adults. It’s tough. One has to really fight for free testing and services, and for most adults, it’s just not worth the struggle.
This was all I could find as a nationwide resource for affordable ADHD testing. Looks like the state Department of Vocational Rehabilitation is the place to start, for someone looking for testing in connection with work accommodation and career services.
https://chadd.org/attention-article/19-tips-for-finding-low-cost-adhd-treatment/
Hm, other than like younger ppl/around my age that are also the same, or maybe like a well educated/trained school teacher, IDK if i’d trust a stranger to necessarily have well intentioned/be non judgemental to observe someone they don’t know and like “Yeah, you’re clearly autistic” but i suppose it also depends on the city and such, same with being lgbt presenting
To be fair most people think I have ADHD, not autism.
i suppose it’s fine as long as they dont’ impose medication on you
I know there is ADHD medicine to help concentration/energy but at the same time it’s too bad you cant only take them as needed as opposed to a montly refill (then again i suppose you could still go to the pharmacy monthly anyways and not be required to turn in an empty pill bottle or so, but i don’t rly know what the process is because i’m ‘rawdogging life’ as tehy say XP)
You can take ADHD meds as needed.
(Mine are daily, my husband’s are as needed.)
They don’t give ADHD meds to adults who don’t want to take ADHD meds.
You can take some ADHD meds as needed. If I skip a couple of days, or don’t even take them at semi-consistent times, I get massive headaches.
I think most of the stimulants can be taken as needed, though.
Yes, Hilzabub is right.
My point is more that it seems like Anon was concerned that a therapist/psychiatrist can make a person take meds, but luckily, that’s not how it works for ADHD.
Therapists and psychiatrists can give you facts so you can make informed choices, but they can’t make the choices for you on this one. If you’re an adult, it’s really up to you, to pick what to do about your own ADHD — whether that involves no meds, or if you only want the types of stimulants that you can take as needed, or if you want therapy + daily meds, or many other plans of your own choosing.
I recently learned ADHD and Autism are closely related, can coexist. Diagnoses of one is sometimes made more uncertain by the other.
Doin’ great, Becky. More of this, less of that other thing. Or actually, none of the other thing, only this.
Regarding panel 3 – sir, I did NOT come here to be attacked like this!
And yes, boys and girls, self-diagnosis is valid. If you’ve researched matters, and read up, and sought outside opinions, and it still seems the most probable explanation, go ahead and call yourself what you want, because diagnosis can take years and cost thousands. For example, when my wife and I were still just engaged, I went to a nearby bookstore to check on their copy of the DSM-IV, then the current reference, to read up on chronic depression (from which she suffers). My sister had recently read an article about what was then called Asperger’s Syndrome, and decided that described me perfectly; I did not mention this to my wife, but I did copy the AS entry from the DSM-IV and show it to her, while heavily hinting I was wondering about a friend of ours. She read it, and asked if the opposite page was illustrated with my headshot. That’s good enough for me, especially after reading the entry on ASD in the DSM-V; it explains so very much about me, you see. (And no, I can’t lie worth a damn either. I don’t even try any more.)
Although I admire and support your method of self Diagnosis, I feel most people who do a “self diagnosis” have never heard of the DSM-IV but just read a blog post with “17 signs you may be [insert label here]” and have been riding confirmation bias ever since. Your method was way more thorough, although it would have been better to show your partner some other related pages too, so you can rule out her saying this because it matches 80%, if there’s another that matches more.
I always thought self diagnosis is to be shunned and discouraged. Leaving a diagnosis to the professionals still seems like the best choice, but seeing someone describe it as good as you do, likely living in the US based on the cost, makes me doubt that. Thanks for changing my mind.
This is a spectacularly terrible take. Self-diagnosis is often the only way someone can even begin to come to grips with the fact that they often feel alienated by their peers and by every adult they’ve ever met, because there are many barriers to getting an official diagnosis, which include cost (especially in the US), a failing medical system, systemic bias against AFABs, people of color, people over 18, and people with pre-existing disabilities, as well as a focus on a very specific set of behaviors that does not cover all autistic people, not even able-bodied white boys.
And say you manage to surmount all this and you get your diagnosis from a professional clinician. Congratulations! Now you have a piece of paper that says you can be discriminated against by insurance and employers, barred from immigrating to another country (including Canada up until 2018,) have your autonomy taken away and be placed under a conservatorship (like what happened with Britney Spears), have your kids taken away from you (and be barred from donating eggs or sperm), denied organ transplants and put on DNR orders against your consent.
Why in Palutena’s name would anyone want that?
I’m glad you’re reconsidering, especially since the very low standard you assume of people who self-diagnose is often not the case.
“Leaving a diagnosis to the professionals”
Yeah, but the professionals are often bullheaded and don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about because they refuse to adapt to changes that have occured since they were fresh out of Professional School, though. If you can find one who actually keeps up with the latest findings and studies and suchwhat and isn’t holding onto obsolete biases, sure, trust ’em. And if it works out, all the better.
Self-diagnosis can go wrong by confirmation bias, which is why people who must depend on it have to exercise care. But that does not mean it is invalid. And ‘professionals’ often have favorite diagnoses and things they just don’t believe in. Like, even if it’s right in front of them.
Ah, yes, the DSM. The same document that also classified “homosexuality” and continues to classify “transvestism” as mental disorders.
Pardon, it was relabeled as “transvestic disorder” in the fifth edition
Preferring to wear clothes that aren’t arbitrarily assigned to your perceived gender, that’s somehow a disorder? I knew people made fun of ya for it, but goddamn.
From the top result of a very lazy Google search, specifically psychcentral:
“Transvestic disorder is experiencing recurrent and intense sexual arousal, urges, and behavior from wearing clothes traditionally worn by a different gender. It is not a mental disorder. Instead, transvestic disorder falls under the umbrella term of paraphilia, any atypical sexual thoughts or erotic behavior.”
What I want to know is, why do we need an official diagnosis for (as they’re apparently describing it) a mild kink?
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again, what has become of the concept of “mental disorder” is really nothing more than an exercise in power.
>implying it was ever more than that in the first place
One cannot create a concept of “incorrect” functioning without inevitably creating alongside it a concept of what constitutes “correct” functioning, and given the shear diversity of individuals and their situations and corresponding functioning needs all over the world, ideally “mental disorder” should not have expanded beyond that which prevents all humans from meeting their most basic survival needs as individuals. But of course this is in contrast to the harsh reality, where individuals are stretched and crushed on the procrustean bed under the tyranny of “normal”.
And don’t you dare try and put burn cream on your red, puffy arm after you’ve scalded it with boiling water without going to the doctor with it first! At least not before getting an online diploma in medicine! Darn self-diagnosers these days.
Medicine is not magic. Sure, there are a lot of cases where you need to know the whole thing to not make a mistake (such as when prescribing medication), but autism is… actually not one of those. It’s not that complicated once you actually know things about it. You can say “my arm is broken” without going to the doctor first, and you can similarly say “I am autistic”.
willis you’re gonna make me CRY /pos
thanks, I’m crying now
SO WHOLESOME.
🥲
Ah, this strip made me teary. Damn you, Willis. And thanks.
I keep expecting people to keep their word, to act like the things they say matter, to live by the rules they set. I think that’s a big part of what makes it hard for autistics to fit in. I mean if people can’t accept me being bothered by dishonesty, and not letting them get away with it, I don’t want them to accept me.
So anyway I think the main difference between me and Joyce is my bullies taught me it wasn’t safe to care about anything, so I’m catching up with that at over twice her age.
I was “lucky” in getting diagnosed early. All that really meant was that I was a target for shitty educators, shitty kids, and shitty adults with even the slightest bit of power over me. I’m so glad that Joyce has a friend like Becky.
Being diagnosed late didn’t stop me from being a target for shitty educators, shitty kids, and shitty adults with even the slightest bit of power over me because they were targeting me for the traits I was showing not the label. They just didn’t use some of the slurs they would have used if they’d known my precise diagnosis. The R slur would have been (and was) used either way.
It did mean I spent most of my life blaming myself and thinking I was a failure because I kept trying to fit myself into a mold that was incompatible with me.
If I’d had the chance to learn proper coping strategies and built my strengths instead of spending so much effort trying to make myself do things I just can’t I might be a lot more successful than I am now.
That third bit there, the one about coping strategies and building strengths? Yeah, I feel that one. I feel that one deep in my bones. I’ve wasted so much time and effort trying to do things that literally cannot be done by this body and this brain, and I’ve got nothing to show for it. Meeting impossible demands is worthless and if anyone is still trying to force it, I encourage you to stop practicing this form of self-harm as soon as you can.
Yeah, not being diagnosed as a kid definitely didn’t keep me from being a target for bullies. They knew I acted differently from them, even if they (and I at the time too) didn’t know why.
I feel so seen. Being an undiagnosed *adult* also hasn’t keep me from being bullied and discriminated against. Earn weird looks and disparaging remarks from colleagues – Ask Me How! Not to mention ADHD in the mix.
I’ve built my collection of coping strategies (read: masking like hell), but that was through years of effort, errors, frustration, confusion, humiliation, and terrible self-esteem. Yay, great. /s
These kind of conversations are incredibly valuable for expanding awareness. I appreciate all of ya’ll’s experiences.
It has been so nice reading this comment section and feeling not-alone in struggling with meeting the unwritten unspoken societal norms.
Therapy has been great for me this past year – teaching me to choose what I value and what I want to grow in instead of looking at myself from what I perceive an outsider might and feeling I will never meet some ‘standard’ of put – togetherness.
Speaking from the other side of things, I’m fairly confident that my life would have been substantially worse if I hadn’t been diagnosed early. Partially because I was able to get accommodations that are probably the only reason I got through high school, but especially because I haven’t had to wonder why I have so much trouble making friends, or why I was so different from my classmates, or why I wasn’t able to make it through simple conversations without damn near having a panic attack. I had a word for all of that, so while it’s still hard, I knew I wasn’t alone, and I was able to embrace the more positive parts of being autistic sooner and more freely.
This isn’t to invalidate anyone who has been subject to the systemic abuse so often directed at autistic people, but my experience – and also a decent amount of research – shows that early diagnosis can make a huge positive difference in a person’s life.
Extremely hard same.
I can remember one doctor banging on about “well, a label isn’t going to do you any good, is it?” It’s a damn sight better than the “labels” both other people and myself flung at me all the time. (He was a pretty awful doctor in other ways too. The last time I saw him he suggested I join a cult.)
My greatest condolences, it’s AWFUL what you have to go through
Becky reminds me of my own 2 bffs, who’ve known me so long and well that they can help me see the positive when my mind is whirling with manky negatives. <3 ty so much for this!
As someone also ~unofficially~ on the spectrum, whose friends also basically said “yeah makes sense” when told, I am really loving this strip. Thanks for this, Willis.
“You love without games or obfuscation, never holdin’ back your whole heart.”
Joyce quietly uses her foot to nudge Enjoying Keeping Joe On Tenterhooks further behind her.
Can we take a chainsaw to the idea that “thinking about your feelings instead of blurting out a reciprocation” and “playing games with people” are the same thing?
In this case, though, I don’t believe it was merely a matter of wanting to consider and be sure of her own feelings. Joyce was enjoying the rare experience (for her) of having power in a relationship. Which is fair… to a point.
It’s been less than a day.
Applauds Becky
The entire “truth first” thing is one thing that, going only by my personal experience, I recognize a lot among us autistics.
This is probably biased of me, but I keep feeling like I’m the only person in my vicinity who’s actually open to the idea that I might be wrong about stuff–even stuff that’s really important to my worldview. I keep reminding myself that “If the evidence shows that I’m wrong, then my instant reaction shouldn’t be to try to find some flaw that lets me discard the evidence (though looking at it critically is in itself fine), it should be to accept that I’m wrong, since me being wrong is in fact what the available evidence shows here and now.
What I mean is, my thing is that other people seem to have this entire thing going where, if they see proof that they’re wrong, they just go “Yeah well, okay, but it’s not as if I’m REALLY wrong.” And the common, recurring trait among at least some of the autistic people I know, including myself, is that we can acknowledge that maybe, we actually ARE wrong.
(Since opinions, by definition, can’t be objectively right or wrong, I want to clarify that what I mean by “acknowledging we are wrong” is “admitting that our opinion is based on defective data or faulty logic, or both”.)
A lot of people apparently find it easier to reject new facts that contradict their worldview than they do to update their worldview. Even if they personally experience something that utterly smashes their old worldview and categorically replaces it with something else – it won’t necessarily stick and the old, previously held schema can bounce back.
This seems like a really self-limiting way to live one’s life. How on earth do you grow and develop like that?!! How do you end up being the best version of yourself when you are literally working against your own best interests?!! But also, these people, probably have a lot of crossover with the people who view other people making different life choices for themselves as a criticism (rather an a result of THEM BEING DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT INTERESTS AND PRIORITIES).
But then I also identify as being at least vaguely scientifically minded and science is all about hypothesis – test – refine/reject. If your hypothesis doesn’t stand up to challenges, it isn’t a good hypothesis. Even if it’s useful for explaining some aspects of a phenomenon, that doesn’t mean it’s accurate, correct, complete, or will always hold true under all conditions, and that a better explanation won’t replace it down the line. Sure, be prepared to defend a position, but keep an open mind!!
“the people who view other people making different life choices for themselves as a criticism”
Gods, this one in particular is so friggin’ irritating. Ya can’t just exist separately without it being a Whole Thing and an attack on their personal pride or whatever. And they always have to turn into a pushy door-to-door salesperson over it, too. I’ve told so many people I was gonna do whatever gibberish they’d noised at me, just to shut them the fuck up, and then if they ask about it later, I just pretend I forgot.
I should be used to people lying by now but every time it’s a big shock to me. So while I can sort of lie (badly) it just feels so unnatural and horrible to me. Even little social lies
And come to think of it, that is why pretending to be normal has been so damn stressful
I learned early on to just assume everyone is always lying about everything, no matter how well I know them, how sincere they sound, or how low the stakes are.
Becky is so freaking adorable when she gets to affirm someone. It’s like there’s a whole world of love in there just waiting for a chance to burst out.
When Paul wrote of speaking the truth in love he was thinking of Becky. True story.
It’s amazing how in just a few days of comic -time we have gone from a “fight” between Joyce and Becky (over Becky overhearing Joyce talking negatively about religion) to them being mutually supportive (with them calling each other “smart” and Becky trying to make Joyce feel better)
Why is that amazing? Friends have stupid squabbles and then reconcile a couple days later. It’s been A Thing since before anyone alive was born.
I’ve been going through reconciliation of a sort with a formerly best friend and it has been uncertain and months in the making and, still, the level of trust will never be the same. I think good communication and connecting after being afraid you might never talk again is always a thing to celebrate!
I’m a little mystified by the “autistics cannot lie” trope. I’m not remotely an expert, but I’ve never heard of it as part of formal definitions or self-diagnostic criteria.
The general idea is, I think, that autistic people are overall more likely to hold to our values and be honest, even when it harms us. Not necessarily a literal “Autism means you cannot ever lie”.
Hell, I lie constantly and for no reason, because it’s funny to piss off people who expect my every sentence to be 1:1 with their perceived reality just because they know I’m autistic.
Hell yeah! Way to be representing, Taffy!
It’s not really that they can’t lie, it’s that a lot of autistic people have a harder time becoming good at lying, because of how they process social clues.
And of course that’s painting with a very wide brush, everyone is different, yadda yadda, hey, was George Washington autistic?
The cherry tree had it coming. If you ever get the chance, look into that tree’s history, there’s a surprising amount of documentation and a lot of it is…kinda yikes. Like, that cherry tree was a real piece of work.
Interestingly enough, the Cherry Tree anecdote is just a myth. But just what is this documentation of which you speak?
1. That part was a joke on Taffy’s part, but
2. Fuck cherry trees
It’s actually super funny that a story meant to highlight George Washington’s honesty was a lie that some biographer made up.
Also, when I was in 1st grade, my teacher asked the class if anyone knew the story about George Washington, and I raised my hand and shared the cherry tree story, and she said, “No, the story is that he was our first president.” Like, percussion instrument, that’s not a story, that’s just a fact.
It’s hard work to invent a plausible lie, and more and harder work to keep it going. I think Mark Twain said something about liars having so much more they have to remember. Why knock yourself out when you can just tell the truth and let the world keep the records?
For shits and giggles and maybe a position in the House of Representatives.
Yup, this. “Regular, ordinary” human social interaction is hard enough, and now you want to make it more complicated? Eff that.
Or you can take the modern Trumpist approach and just not bother to make it plausible or remember to keep it straight. If anyone calls you on it, just come up with another lie.
One time I won a game of Werewolf because my cousin fully believed I couldn’t lie. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not good at lying – nor, by extension, find the traitor games – but still, I was underestimated.
I once won a game by confidently declaring I was the werewolf
We we playing a variant that had other roles including a human that wins by being voted for which is what I actually was
I’m awful at lying directly, but can be suprisingly good at bluffing because my face doesn’t do face things too well.
Autistic people can definitely lie, but the instinct is to be straightforward most of the time, at least in my experience. It’s just easier. Like, socialing is hard, and telling the truth is a lot less effort.
Not just the baseline autistic talking effort + the effort an allistic would need to put into lying, either. To lie believably you need to model in your head how the other person sees you and fit your words and behavior into that. An allistic person does that easily, as their model for (most) other people and what they themselves are like in the eyes of other people align. An autistic person experiences a harsh disconnect there (the way the stories, books, other people tell them people are is NOT the way they are), and so actually managing a correct model and following it for a lie is an advanced, special skill.
If people already don’t believe me when I tell the truth, why should I even TRY lying?
(Of course, there’s the “nudging the truth to be more believable” sort of lie, the one you don’t even quite register as a lie since it’s just “explaining things in an understandable way”…)
That was honestly beautiful :’)
The last couple updates have been real balsam for the heart!
awwwww <3
I read the first panel like Becky was a family guy character
“Hey, Lois! Remember that time I was isekai’d and grew up as a lesbian red head who was the best friend of a webcomic’s lead?”
“Peeeetaaaaah!”
Thinking Joe and Becky are probably winning the best reaction to the news award so far.
So, at 34, in rehab, someone asked whether I might be autistic. But although it’s horrible to say so, male autistics, to a male autistic, seem not really valid? Whatever “valid” means? Anyway, fuck Raen.
What?
It’s allegedly autistic, despite being undiagnosed, unlike Joyce and Dina, properly autistic.
Sorry, I’m still not quite sure what you’re saying. Also, are you calling yourself “it”, or are you comparing diagnosed (“real”) autism with undiagnosed (“alleged”) autism?
My best guess is that the first comment was saying someone has suggested he might be autistic, but he has trouble feeling valid in applying the autistic label to himself? Like how someone might not feel valid identifying as trans because other people are “more trans” (whatever that means). (This example based on my personal experience.)
Second comment, possible typo or autocorrect changing “I’m” to “It’s”? Not sure exactly what the relation is supposed to be between “allegedly autistic,” “undiagnosed,” and “properly autistic.”
It wasn’t a typo or autocorrect. Male autists, especially the self-diagnosed and elderly, merit “it.”
(Especially those whose bed may or may not have been stolen from a female autistic minor celebrity whom it won’t name.)
My initial response was, “Ooooooh, okay. Fuck you, then.”
But I’m still not sure if you’re referring to yourself? Which, if you are, I think it’s totally fine to use “it” pronouns, but also, give yourself some grace, and consider how the way you tear yourself down in public spaces might accidentally splash onto others.
But if you’re referring to someone else, yeah, back to the first response.
Who else? Sorry, no, it was referring to itself. It might call itself a human, but if it is, the only ones worse have names beginning with H, S, M, and P. So you were right in you initial paragraph. It thanks you!
It seems like you’re really having a difficult time– and that “having a difficult time” might be the norm for you, but it shouldn’t be and I wish it wasn’t. Can I ask about what support systems you have in your life?
NGL, I almost wrote you, but this epoch of the web makes it too much a pain in the ass.
We all need some Becky in our lives.
good beck
best friend
Sorry but I can’t help reading Becky as saying that Joyce always deeply cared about the Alabama Christian band more than dumb Elgar music or Dick Wolf’s TV procedural or the Lana Del Rey’s song itself.
One imagines some of those words were attached to actual meanings of some sort.
Yeah, wot a nimrod….
Becky has nicely drawn hair here. I like it.
Also she just described me. Hmmmm.
Who me, doing like 7 different “do I have autism” quizzes online this morning? (Dr. Google says: maybe.)
I have a formal ADHD diagnosis and it was super expensive and difficult and it didn’t do me a damn bit of good ever. And now it is becoming clear I have some autistic traits and I’m 65 and what’s the point? I’ve wasted huge energy all my life trying to fit in and be normal, and I’ll never know what I could have been if I hadn’t bothered with that.
In the US, more than half the diagnostic process is aimed at satisfying the insurance company.
I sent this to my friend. Her child recently (finally) got diagnosed as autistic with ADHD instead of just anxious and the same week the child came out as nonbinary. Big week for my little nibling!
The school has been incredibly accepting which we were both surprised about. They have forms they fill out with the student to get their preferred gender, pronouns, names, and safe persons at school. There’s also a section to put if parent or guardian a/b know and are supportive and if the school can use the students preferred name and pronouns of they have to contact said parent of guardian about the student.
This is something that should be standard, but I recognize that it’s not, so I’m very happy for them that they’re at a school where this is the case.
All of this is very beautiful and sweet. But the wayBecky’s constant getting closer to Joyce makes me fear that the love she feels for her is blinding her and that in the next strip she’ll try to kiss Joyce without even realizing what she’s doing
please no please no she and dina were doing so good…
I think it’s just a friendly moment.
Yeah, just a little friendly making out. No harm, no harm.
I don’t even think she’s actually getting closer to Joyce. It’s just perspective. The camera’s panning in.
Agreed.
Plus that would be out of character for Becky given A. Dina, B. Joyce’s reaction to being kissed without permission is probably one of Becky’s top 5 most traumatic moments (and she has been through a LOT).
What is one thing you wish you had been told/ had been different/ had been understood about you growing up autistic? Or a really positive encounter that made a big difference?
Curious to get some perspectives from commenters. I’m a speech language therapist that works with autistic children and am some flavour of neurodiverse myself. I love working with my kids and a big part of my job is advocation.
If there was one thing I wish was different growing up autistic, it’s that I wish there were more spaces – particularly social spaces – that were explicitly designed for and welcoming to autistic kids. Making and keeping friends is hard when you’re autistic, but it gets easier when you’re around other autistic people. More generally, a lot of the autistic experience is having to learn to navigate an allistic world, so it would have been nice to have a place where I didn’t have to for a bit.
As for a positive encounter, every teacher I had (I was lucky enough to have a few) who believed in me despite my bad grades, who consistently gave me chances to succeed, who indulged me when I went on a tangent during class, who made their classrooms safe spaces from bullying – they made a big difference.
So many of my teenaged ambitions depended on me understanding people at an intuitive level, and I wish I had realized that that would be impossible for me much sooner.
Here’s a big one, and anybody here who works with autistic kids is free to use it: “You don’t have to be friends with them if you don’t want to. Don’t say yes just because you don’t have other friends right now.”
Bad friends are worse than no friends, even if it does get lonely sometimes. A real bond can’t be forced, no matter how much you debase yourself trying.
I wish I’d known what “autistic” is enough to realize I fit that box in a way I never fit the ones I saw. I wish I’d known – and I wish my mom had known – what “ADHD” is, too. And yes, it’s relevant. Being autistic AND the degree of ADHD that I am at the same time has led to an absolutely… incredible experience, in a very literal sense of nobody believing my experiences to be possible.
One time I told an adult that I read books and so I’m weird. They were like “of course that’s not weird!” and it felt very affirming up until I was back with other kids and was actually definitely weird again. And didn’t know anything other than books (constant hyperfixation bait) to associate it with.
Maybe I’m just emotional today but the way Becky expresses it all is making me tear up.
me too tbh
That is so wholesome and sweet
good becky
Did I lose a comment?
…
ah well there are always more comments
Yeah, I was confused too? I went to bed after commenting, and when I saw your comment was gone in the morning, I assumed I had missed some drama during the night or something.
I already forgot what I was going to say because of Becky’s smile in panel 4.
I used the wrong email again.
As a 34-year old who grew up in an extremely religious household, discovered I was an atheist in my late teens, and is in the process of learning I’m probably autistic… comics like this are wonderful and reaffirming to me. I’ve been following DoA since the beginning and I think this is my first time feeling strongly enough to leave a comment. Thank you so much for your work and your art, David. <3
This is my favorite strip in the entire comic!!!!!