Dumbing of Age Book Twelve

Dumbing of Age

A college webcomic by David Willis
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sal is now held up entirely through danny's suction
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May 12, 2026

Traditionally

by David M Willis on May 3, 2023 at 12:01 am
  • 03 – Joementum
└ Tags: danny, joe, joyce, sal

Discussion (136) ¬

[ Comments RSS ]
  1. Ana Chronistic
    Ana Chronistic
    May 3, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    is exhibitionism part of the danger

    • jeffepp
      jeffepp
      May 3, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

      You’ve seen how she dresses when it’s warm enough. So, yes.

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        May 3, 2023 at 8:11 am | #

        Damn you Willis for giving us this in Winter Semester. Fingers crossed for an unseasonably short winter and hot spring. Or they just go to hotsprings during winter. Either or.

        • Lysbeth
          Lysbeth
          May 3, 2023 at 1:00 pm | #

          HOT SPRINGS OVA

          • rachel
            rachel
            May 5, 2023 at 12:47 pm | #

            HOT SPRINGS OVA!!!

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          May 3, 2023 at 2:34 pm | #

          Oh yeah, all those hot springs laying around all over Indiana.

    • Dara
      Dara
      May 3, 2023 at 5:51 am | #

      yes.

      yes, it is.

  2. Doctor_Who
    Doctor_Who
    May 3, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    Joe, climbing out a window in pursuit of sexy shenanigans? Not in this universe.

    • TerribleTransit
      TerribleTransit
      May 3, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

      In this universe the sexy shenanigans climb the window to him.

      … Look, it’s fine. If Joyce can climb a tree that fast I’m sure she can safely scale a building if sufficiently mortified.

      • GholaHalleck
        GholaHalleck
        May 3, 2023 at 1:22 am | #

        Sal has to take her to home depot to find a study enough smoochin’ ladder, and Joyce gets lost in the dryer aisle and fantasizes about one of those bachelor shows her mother forbade her to watch.

      • Freezer
        Freezer
        May 3, 2023 at 2:56 am | #

        Scale it? She could probably vault it.

    • Angel
      Angel
      May 3, 2023 at 9:25 pm | #

      it’d probably be something joyce would have julia grey do maybe lol

  3. C.T. Phipps
    C.T. Phipps
    May 3, 2023 at 12:02 am | #

    Joe realizes in that moment….he wanted Dan.

    • Paradoxius
      Paradoxius
      May 3, 2023 at 12:27 am | #

      Joyce outright stated in that moment that she wanted Sal…

  4. BBCC
    BBCC
    May 3, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    YES, Joe! You shut your face!

    • BBCC
      BBCC
      May 3, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

      Huh. Lyle’s here now.

      Yay! Hoping that means a bigger role going forth.

  5. NGPZ
    NGPZ
    May 3, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    Awe!!!! 🥰

  6. CMasta1992
    CMasta1992
    May 3, 2023 at 12:03 am | #

    Joyce already has the ability to ascend to great heights when embarrassed. She’s halfway there already.

    • Risky
      Risky
      May 3, 2023 at 1:37 am | #

      Certo! This was my first thought as well.

  7. Just an Armadillo
    Just an Armadillo
    May 3, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

    Joe has already spent too much time in this relationship getting Joyce down from high places to even entertain the idea of letting her climb her way up to a third story window.

  8. nobodybasically
    nobodybasically
    May 3, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

    Finally, all of Danny’s sucking has paid off!

    • True Survivor
      True Survivor
      May 3, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

      Thanks for the smile.

    • GholaHalleck
      GholaHalleck
      May 3, 2023 at 1:24 am | #

      the perfect gravatar for this statement.

    • PirateTawnee
      PirateTawnee
      May 3, 2023 at 2:28 am | #

      To paraphrase Wayne Campbell – “He certainly does suck”.

      Just kidding Danny, you’re a good boy.

  9. Sirksome
    Sirksome
    May 3, 2023 at 12:04 am | #

    Everyone’s hooking up post winter break. All it will take is Sarah finding some D and this will be the season of horny.

    • Angel
      Angel
      May 3, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

      i think sarah has the ‘other jacob’ for that, i can’t think of anyone she’d hookup willingly on campus even as a one night stand lol

      • Nono
        Nono
        May 3, 2023 at 12:15 am | #

        Well there was Jacob. Otherwise ehhhhh Drew I dunno? He *is* bi and seems decently built.

        • Angel
          Angel
          May 3, 2023 at 9:28 pm | #

          well, Jacob and raidah not being together anymore ,not sure if sarah would still be interested since it was mostly sexual (on sarah’s end) and i don’t think jacob wants a one night stand

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      May 3, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

      Dorothy still has to make a new connection (with Arnold).

  10. sultryglebe
    sultryglebe
    May 3, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

    Panel 4 Dan face!

    • sultryglebe
      sultryglebe
      May 3, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

      And Panel 3 Sal. They are chemistry-ing. They will work it out.

  11. DailyBrad
    DailyBrad
    May 3, 2023 at 12:05 am | #

    Wait, so were Joe and Joyce there this whole time or did they just come in?

    Also, this is very cool of Sal and all, but no one tell her that Danny has had sex where a grappling hook was part of the process. She might feel a tad inclined to overcompensate.

    • TerribleTransit
      TerribleTransit
      May 3, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      She’s already been told

      • DailyBrad
        DailyBrad
        May 3, 2023 at 1:40 am | #

        Ah, good catch, I’d forgotten that. Such a great punchline, between both her and Joe’s reactions.

  12. UrsulaDavina
    UrsulaDavina
    May 3, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

    How long have they been there?

    • cbwroses
      cbwroses
      May 3, 2023 at 1:02 am | #

      Accidentally clicked flag.
      My bad.

  13. brute
    brute
    May 3, 2023 at 12:06 am | #

    Joyce wishes to make love like an eagle, falling out of the sky

    • NGPZ
      NGPZ
      May 3, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

      More like an eagle piloting a blimp! 😂

  14. UrsulaDavina
    UrsulaDavina
    May 3, 2023 at 12:07 am | #

    Tbh Joyce seems pretty adept at climbing so this is a realistic goal for her and Joe.

  15. Dr. T
    Dr. T
    May 3, 2023 at 12:08 am | #

    Sal thinks that’s dangerous, but Danny definitely has that beaten, I believe.

  16. Jo_cubstar
    Jo_cubstar
    May 3, 2023 at 12:10 am | #

    I love Joyce’s face in the last panel. She looks adorable and so excited

  17. RassilonTDavros
    RassilonTDavros
    May 3, 2023 at 12:11 am | #

    Even though I started with DoA there is still something deeply hilarious about seeing Joyce get all excited over Danny and Sal kissing.

  18. Joe Moose
    Joe Moose
    May 3, 2023 at 12:11 am | #

    YES!

  19. Suet
    Suet
    May 3, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

    I mean, who’s who in that scenario?

    *plays Come to My Window* I know Sal’s knees are bent forward but don’t let go!

  20. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    May 3, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

    Joe is not gonna climb through any windows and he’d have a heart attack if Joyce tried to.

    • Decidedly Orthogonal
      Decidedly Orthogonal
      May 3, 2023 at 9:50 am | #

      This Joe, mayyyybe, but it’s not completely out of character for
      Joe to climb through windows.

  21. Taffy
    Taffy
    May 3, 2023 at 12:12 am | #

    This one’s just cute. Find problems with it in a way that’s coherent, motherfuckers, I dare you. I double dare you.

    • Bittersweet
      Bittersweet
      May 3, 2023 at 12:25 am | #

      Sal standing on that ledge is making me uncomfortable. Idk why, just this strip specifically is the first one where I’m like “WAIT BUT GRAVITY” lol.

      • Keulen
        Keulen
        May 3, 2023 at 2:55 pm | #

        Same, I’ve been worried that Sal might slip and fall off the ledge for the past couple strips of her and Danny. Other than that this is cute.

    • Justnobodyfqwl
      Justnobodyfqwl
      May 3, 2023 at 12:27 am | #

      … Wait, have people tssk-tssking the characters for imagined moral sleights EVER been coherent here?

    • GholaHalleck
      GholaHalleck
      May 3, 2023 at 1:20 am | #

      Think of the poor janitor who has to keep squeegeeing Sal’s bootprints off the windows every day!

      • justin8448
        justin8448
        May 3, 2023 at 2:46 am | #

        The real hero of this comic!

      • Taffy
        Taffy
        May 3, 2023 at 9:28 am | #

        She wipes her boots on the window mat Danny left out. It’s got extra grip and fastens to a spot on the wall. Checkmate, lib.

        • GholaHalleck
          GholaHalleck
          May 3, 2023 at 12:38 pm | #

          But what about the other two floors?! Checkmate yourself whatever they use for not lib!

          • Taffy
            Taffy
            May 3, 2023 at 2:23 pm | #

            The other two floors are bypassed by the tree. Those are the rules of chess.

      • zee
        zee
        May 3, 2023 at 1:38 pm | #

        I doubt anyone actually cleans the windows tbh

      • Decidedly Orthogonal
        Decidedly Orthogonal
        May 3, 2023 at 2:06 pm | #

        Yeah, but that’s be offset by also getting to lick uh… clean off the smear her chest leaves too.

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          May 3, 2023 at 2:26 pm | #

          If you’re horny enough to lick somebody’s third-floor bedroom window just because some teenager’s clothed boobs touched it, you’re horny enough to wash some dishes for once.

  22. Nono
    Nono
    May 3, 2023 at 12:14 am | #

    Imagine if Joyce and Danny swapped relationships.

    No I didn’t mix up those names.

    • Dana
      Dana
      May 3, 2023 at 1:16 am | #

      Pretty sure not even Joyce would ship Danny and Joe.

      • Clif
        Clif
        May 3, 2023 at 2:00 am | #

        Amber, on the other hand …

  23. Grimey
    Grimey
    May 3, 2023 at 12:15 am | #

    Now this is a double date I can get behind.

  24. shadowcell
    shadowcell
    May 3, 2023 at 12:16 am | #

    Dumbing of Age Book 13: Ah’m Dangerously Romantic

  25. anonymsly
    anonymsly
    May 3, 2023 at 12:19 am | #

    Danny and Sal are cute, this whole strip is cute, but what’s really making me joyful is the right now it looks like Joe’s purposely showing Joyce off to Danny – his eternal BFF being fully brought in the loop of Joe Is Doing Feelings.

    I’m just really happy anytime Joe or Danny act like they’re actually friends, okay.

  26. foducool
    foducool
    May 3, 2023 at 12:26 am | #

    well, we’ve seen that Joyce is very good at climbing, lately
    so pulling that stunt off isn’t off the table lmao

  27. Alongcameaspider
    Alongcameaspider
    May 3, 2023 at 12:27 am | #

    It occurs to me that Joyce and Danny haven’t interacted much in the comic, I’m not even sure they know each other’s names

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      May 3, 2023 at 8:16 am | #

      Joyce definitely knows who Hat Guy is.

    • Tan
      Tan
      May 3, 2023 at 11:38 am | #

      It has been a running gag that Joyce ‘forgets’ Danny’s name. However, Danny definitely knows not only Joyce’s name but who she is as a person. https://www.dumbingofage.com/2021/comic/book-11/05-as-long-as-its-free/proxy-2/

  28. thenamelesssamurai
    thenamelesssamurai
    May 3, 2023 at 12:40 am | #

    @Yotomoe: So I missed the racism conversation from two days ago, but I was wondering if I could share two videos with you that might interest and help you whenever the conversation comes up.

    • Yotomoe
      Yotomoe
      May 3, 2023 at 12:48 am | #

      I mean…There’s a very real chance I won’t watch them (I’m bad about watching things people send me) and plus I got really heated there and I don’t like feeling that way. Is this a thing that’ll upset me?

      • thenamelesssamurai
        thenamelesssamurai
        May 3, 2023 at 12:54 am | #

        Fairy nuff. I’m bad about it too. It helps that one of them is legimately funny as hell and entertaining, even while being over an hour. Like it’s so funny, my dad watched it multiple times after I showed it to him. And naw I feel like it would be the opposite and you’d agree with it and would strengthen the arguments you were making.

  29. Yotomoe
    Yotomoe
    May 3, 2023 at 12:42 am | #

    Would you consider this a Reverse Spider-man kiss?

    • cbwroses
      cbwroses
      May 3, 2023 at 1:17 am | #

      I think a reverse spider-man kiss would be when the heroine, standing with feet on the ground, kisses the tied up and hanging upside down gentry in jeopardy, before letting them down.
      During the daytime, on a sunny day, while the gentry in jeopardy is hanging from a tree in an open plain.
      (Got to include as many opposites as possible in relation to the original scene.)

    • Dday
      Dday
      May 3, 2023 at 1:34 am | #

      The “Reverse Spider-Man Kiss” is when a spider gets bitten by a radioactive human and develops human-themed abilities. He stands bipedally to kiss his spider-girlfriend and drives away before she can eat his head.

      • Slartibeast Button, BIA
        Slartibeast Button, BIA
        May 3, 2023 at 6:57 am | #

        What does a “human sense” ability tell you?

        • Kirt Dankmyer
          Kirt Dankmyer
          May 3, 2023 at 8:42 am | #

          How to ruin things.

        • Chaucer59
          Chaucer59
          May 3, 2023 at 1:27 pm | #

          Not a lot. Most humans have less sense than a cigarette butt.

        • Taffy
          Taffy
          May 3, 2023 at 2:41 pm | #

          Spider-Sense is like, impending danger, basically enhanced reflexes. The opposite of that is pretty much intoxication. If you want human sense, have a couple martinis.

  30. Ionic
    Ionic
    May 3, 2023 at 12:54 am | #

    I’m not sure Danny looks happy with this kiss

    • Alongcameaspider
      Alongcameaspider
      May 3, 2023 at 1:01 am | #

      Pretty sure that’s just him realizing there’s an audience he didn’t expect

    • ollie
      ollie
      May 3, 2023 at 1:02 am | #

      I do believe he’s unhappy at the peanut gallery, not the kiss itself!

  31. Hazel
    Hazel
    May 3, 2023 at 1:05 am | #

    Aww, Sal is adorable.

  32. Throwatron
    Throwatron
    May 3, 2023 at 1:31 am | #

    classic space captain julia gray

  33. thakoru
    thakoru
    May 3, 2023 at 1:34 am | #

    Does Joyce know who Danny is by now?

    • DailyBrad
      DailyBrad
      May 3, 2023 at 2:15 am | #

      Probably, dating Sal has got to send him way up in her estimation.

    • Hoboturtle
      Hoboturtle
      May 3, 2023 at 4:01 am | #

      I feel like they had at least one conversation where Joyce was struggling to remember who he was and Danny was insisting that he wasn’t that forgettable.

  34. Ophidiophile
    Ophidiophile
    May 3, 2023 at 2:12 am | #

    Being involved with Joe is already paying off.

  35. DailyBrad
    DailyBrad
    May 3, 2023 at 2:17 am | #

    I am loving panel 4 Danny’s expression. I know he’s easy to dunk on sometimes, but I can definitely see why Sal likes him so much.

  36. Needfuldoer
    Needfuldoer
    May 3, 2023 at 2:30 am | #

    Wait, wouldn’t Joyce just see Sal smooching a floating question mark with a hat over it?

    https://www.dumbingofage.com/guys-2/

    • Amós Batista
      Amós Batista
      May 3, 2023 at 2:44 am | #

      Ugh, gross.
      Also: I think it’s not, because she alread have to negotiate with him to send Danny as a proxy.

  37. Reltzik
    Reltzik
    May 3, 2023 at 2:32 am | #

    OG Roomies gang!

  38. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    May 3, 2023 at 2:41 am | #

    Hey, they are cock-blocking themselves. It’s a good and bad timing.

  39. Axel
    Axel
    May 3, 2023 at 3:12 am | #

    I don’t think they’re there to bang but if they are they support it

    (more realistically, maybe kissing, which I also support)

  40. Steelbright
    Steelbright
    May 3, 2023 at 3:27 am | #

    Joe and Joyce ended up back in Joe’s room, huh? I’ll be very curious to see what they intend to do here. (And what actually happens. Haha)

  41. Thomas
    Thomas
    May 3, 2023 at 4:51 am | #

    One of these days, Sal’s gonna fall off the building and break an arm or a leg. Seems a realistic outcome.

    • Dara
      Dara
      May 3, 2023 at 5:50 am | #

      eh, I dunno, I had to climb in and out of the art building in undergrad enough times, you get good at it

      • Reltzik
        Reltzik
        May 3, 2023 at 9:32 am | #

        Sal’s too much of a rebel to just follow along in Mike’s footsteps like that.

        • Reltzik
          Reltzik
          May 3, 2023 at 9:33 am | #

          (Ack, meant to reply to BarerMender, ah well.)

    • BarerMender
      BarerMender
      May 3, 2023 at 6:36 am | #

      If she drops three stories, she’ll break her whole body.

    • HueSatLight
      HueSatLight
      May 3, 2023 at 12:40 pm | #

      wow, who left all this mulch just piled up here waiting to be used?

  42. AGV
    AGV
    May 3, 2023 at 5:20 am | #

    Hello there!

  43. DarkoNeko
    DarkoNeko
    May 3, 2023 at 5:33 am | #

    Joe it’s your time to leave the room and tactfully leave a sock on the handle of the door, for once.

  44. Chasey
    Chasey
    May 3, 2023 at 6:54 am | #

    This is cute. My sleepy brain’s mostly wondering how the window works, though. I’m sure it’s been shown plenty of strips back; just too lazy/sleepy to go look.

    • thejeff
      thejeff
      May 3, 2023 at 8:19 am | #

      It’s afraid of Sal busting through it, so it bends physics to let her in.

    • Reltzik
      Reltzik
      May 3, 2023 at 9:45 am | #

      It comes down to the material qualities of glass, and two features are important here. The first is how difficult it is to excite the electrons in silicon-dioxide molecules. It takes a particularly high-energy photon to excite them, requiring something in the UV spectrum or higher. The photons responsible for visible light just pass by the atoms without interacting. (Remember, on that scale matter is almost entirely empty space, with our macro notions of solidity just being electromagnetic interactions of charged particles.) No interaction means no reflection or absorption. The second feature is the amorphous nature of glass. This helps maintain internal homogeneity, resulting in few inconsistencies that could cause internal refraction.

      • Rachel
        Rachel
        May 3, 2023 at 12:20 pm | #

        Lmao this is beautiful, thank you

      • Mark
        Mark
        May 3, 2023 at 7:05 pm | #

        But Sal could be adding some strains.

  45. ValdVin
    ValdVin
    May 3, 2023 at 7:08 am | #

    “I require examples” turns out to be a really charming and sexy line.

    But not in Doc Brock’s science class. Or is it? Dina and Becky, Joe and Joyce…

    • Queezle
      Queezle
      May 3, 2023 at 9:09 am | #

      Yes, I was kind of surprised how smooth Danny can be. And he clearly knew what he was doing too. I am still waiting for him to danny things up.
      But so far I am kind of impressed with him.

  46. milu
    milu
    May 3, 2023 at 7:28 am | #

    why, this sounds like an alignment chart

    • Zaxares
      Zaxares
      May 3, 2023 at 9:42 am | #

      So I guess Joe changed alignment from Traditional Nihilistic to Traditional Neutral (on his way to Romantic)? 😉

      • milu
        milu
        May 3, 2023 at 2:10 pm | #

        My thinking exactly, please be argumentative goddammit (see below)

        • milu
          milu
          May 3, 2023 at 2:17 pm | #

          Wait i didn’t end up placing Joe on the chart. So i guess this means it was up to me to argue over your suggestion. Oops well then no i disagree i’d say he started off as dangerously nihilistic and just skipped all the way to traditionally romantic in one fell [and narratively dubious /curmudgeon /anti-joeyce shipper) swoop

    • Reltzik
      Reltzik
      May 3, 2023 at 9:53 am | #

      How is Amber nihilistic/dangerous?

      Sure, I’ll grant that Amber’s nihilistic. And I’d grant that Amazi-Girl is dangerous. (Even if the picture is of Amber.) But Amazi-Girl has too many romanticized notions of good and evil to count as a nihilist, and that came across in her relationship with Danny. I’d describe Amazi-Girl as Dangerous-Neutral, and Amber as Neutral-Nihilistic.

      (Because what’s an alignment system without alignment system arguments?)

      • milu
        milu
        May 3, 2023 at 2:10 pm | #

        Well Amber is extremely horny, chronically sleep-deprived and liable to turn into/merge with (?) Amazi-Girl at any moment which i translated (perhaps hopefully) as dangerous in this context.
        But yes, thank you, i was absolutely hoping to get some arguments going here. Who would you have fill that slot if you’re so smart? (Just being casually confrontational for kicks, love ya 😘)

    • The Oracle
      The Oracle
      May 3, 2023 at 2:38 pm | #

      What does “Neutral dangerous” even mean, in terms of romantic alignment?

      • milu
        milu
        May 3, 2023 at 4:42 pm | #

        Exactly! It makes no sense at all! Hence Malaya <3

  47. Mr D
    Mr D
    May 3, 2023 at 7:42 am | #

    Danny keeping Sal up with the succ power

  48. Hof1991
    Hof1991
    May 3, 2023 at 9:01 am | #

    Liking this smile on Joyce more than the triangle of teeth.

  49. Zane Becker-Byrd
    Zane Becker-Byrd
    May 3, 2023 at 10:40 am | #

    As they’re relationship progresses, Sal builds a basket for the sole purpose of even more physics defying makeout sessions.

  50. Acher4
    Acher4
    May 3, 2023 at 11:51 am | #

    So many years later, so many things changed…
    but here are the four of them in that room…
    having relationship hijinks.

    This feels wonderfully nostlagic but also new. 😉

  51. Dot
    Dot
    May 3, 2023 at 12:11 pm | #

    It’s Roomies!

  52. Call Me Deacon Blues
    Call Me Deacon Blues
    May 3, 2023 at 12:19 pm | #

    So… I want very much for Joyce and Danny to start interacting. It was funny for the first 15 years of the comic, but now that we’re rolling on into year 25 of DoA it’s crazy the 2 have barely spoken

    • Dot
      Dot
      May 3, 2023 at 4:10 pm | #

      Are you a time traveler from 2035?

  53. Rachel
    Rachel
    May 3, 2023 at 12:19 pm | #

    Frick this is just so cute I’m simply melting 😭

  54. Rabisch
    Rabisch
    May 3, 2023 at 12:31 pm | #

    First time I realize how hot Danny is. Now I really want to see his reaction seeing that Joyce is the girl Joe was talking about, and also Sal’s reaction. This could be a great double date.

  55. Joy
    Joy
    May 3, 2023 at 1:15 pm | #

    Hahaha omg

  56. Amós Batista
    Amós Batista
    May 3, 2023 at 3:54 pm | #

    Kissing with eyes opened are weird.
    Even weirder is seeing other people kissing with eyes opened.

    • Rotunda
      Rotunda
      May 3, 2023 at 9:17 pm | #

      Danny’s eyes are probably open in surprise at Joyce and Joe’s entrance.

  57. LIGHTWEIGHT BAYBEE
    LIGHTWEIGHT BAYBEE
    May 3, 2023 at 6:35 pm | #

    and they truly were
    Roomies

  58. newlland(Henryvolt)
    newlland(Henryvolt)
    May 3, 2023 at 7:40 pm | #

    No as in “Joyce I know I’m crazy about you but I’m not doing that.”

  59. Rectilinear Propagation
    Rectilinear Propagation
    May 3, 2023 at 9:37 pm | #

    Haaaaah, Danny has a type!

  60. bagge
    bagge
    May 3, 2023 at 10:23 pm | #

    Joyce YES

  61. Kravis
    Kravis
    May 3, 2023 at 10:43 pm | #

    If Sal is, indeed, held in the window entirely through “Danny’s suction” that’s full proof of what we knew all allong: DANNY SUCKS!

  62. yak
    yak
    May 4, 2023 at 3:34 am | #

    fucken smooth, dan-boy

  63. Felian
    Felian
    May 9, 2023 at 6:37 am | #

    NO.
    (i’m not opposed to romance and whichever way anyone wants to express it, but i’m opposed to taking what you see other people do and pushing your relationship into that, without thinking about whether it suits your relationship and the people involved in it.)

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