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Always bugs me that people mis-use that.
The exception to the rule proves that there is a rule that is not being accounted for.
Or.
The exception proves the rule.
For whatever the worth, this expression exists also in other languages but quite often you’ll find the verb used only does not have this meaning of testing. Just of validating that a rule exists; otherwise what is the exception excepting from?
Yup. In French, “prouve” doesn’t have the meaning of “putting to the test” – it’s just that if you find out why the case is an exception, you’ve just zeroed in on the rule.
– instead of deep-frying chicken pieces, I often find myself baking or air-frying them to save oil
– I almost never use as much salt as a chicken recipe calls for, for this one I use 1/4 tsp salt or even just omit it
– if I don’t have MSG on hand, I just use dashi flakes, substitute 1/4 tsp of the white pepper with Chinese 5-spice, or even just omit it
– For the orange sauce, I sometimes substitute the rice wine vinegar with another 1/4 cup orange juice when I don’t want too much acid, additionally I don’t even use Oleo Saccharum most of the time, usually just 1/2 cup sugar altogether.
One of my favorite comfort foods, can last me all week if I want it too, sometimes I use the leftover sauce on hotdogs LOL :9
Chinese buffets sometimes have regular-ass fried chicken, too, probably for the dipshits as Walky puts it, and just since, if you already have the equipment to fry food as it is, adding different kinds of fried foods doesn’t take a lot of investment of time or effort.
So many of the staple dishes at chinese places are really excellent chicken options that I genuinely can’t imagine taking the chicken strips if given the choice.
I go to Chinese buffets for the variety and the portions, and that includes the regular non Chinese chicken strips alongside my general tso’s, my pepper chicken, my orange chicken, etc.
I sometimes even get a slice of pizza and fries.
I guess I too am a dipshit.
If I am at any kind of a buffet and fried chicken is there, I will put some on the plate. It’s hard to miss with it.
Though, the big “not chinese food” thing I used to get at a buffet was crab legs. It was kind of shocking that they had them, given it wasn’t a terribly expensive buffet.
tbf a lot of ‘foreign/ethnic’ places tends to have something basic + fries on their ‘kids menu’ and stuff (tho i’m sure chicken strips wit hasian flavors would be nice) , i’ve had wings bc it was a cheap appetizer price but that is more of a bonus and would normally get fried rice or lo mein
Yeah, I live in Chinatown and it’s actually a fucking fantastic place to get chicken wings. Also, Korean fried chicken is a legitimate entire genre of food, and karaage is a genuine treat.
To be fair “authentic” Chinese food in the West is almost all Chinese-American cuisine. There might be a handful of dishes that may be the same as in China, but mostly its stuff that was invented over here with what was on hand to appeal more to the tastes of the country they were in.
Yee, according to chef Ming Sai from Simply Ming, Americanized Chinese food tends to be “thicker, blander, and sweeter” than the original Chinese cousine on which they were based.
When I was a kid, I got the spiciest thing on the menu when the rest of the family was ordering bland sugary Americanized crap.
Oh. Wait. I still do that. And lots of Chinese places have a ‘secret’ menu, translate apps unlock it for you. My favorite Chinese food is spicy braised pork intestine.
I’ve never seen or even heard of chicken strips at a chinese restaurant, but i suspect this is some kind of midwestern bullshit that’s more common in Indiana
Chinese buffet restaurants in the US generally have “safe” familiar western options for children, fussy eaters, and the obstinate. That’s not just Americanized “Chinese food”, they’ll have cheese pizza, chicken tenders, and fries.
Anything to cater to that one family member who refuses to eat out anywhere other than Applebee’s, TGI Friday’s, or Ruby Tuesday.
Sometimes you go to a restaurant because the other people in the group wanted to go there, and those same people then hassling you because you didn’t order the specialty at the restaurant that you didn’t want in the first place is really annoying.
(Also, chicken strips are great-tasting food.)
There was a time, as a young child, when my parent would take me to a steakhouse and I’d order chicken, and they’d mock me for it. There was a time, as a slightly older child, when I would order a steak as expected of me.
As a teenager, I decided that I would be an adult even if my parents couldn’t and order whatever I wanted.
Eh, chicken strips tend to be bland, dry, overcooked white meat with flavorless breading. Not my thing.
The trick at steakhouses when you don’t like steak is ordering the seafood. They’re usually pretty good at that, they’re typically pretty bad at chicken. And I’m not really that much of a fan of steak. I can do prime rib or fillet occasionally (like every few years or so) but if I’m gonna do beef at all I’d rather have tongue or liver.
Chicken is easy to dry out if you cook it like a beef steak. The secret is to brine the chicken first, then cook it relatively slow on indirect heat. Restaurants don’t want to do either of those things because they take too long or require guessing how much they need too far ahead.
Thank you! Came here looking for this.
I’m a strange mix of very broad palate and intense highly specific aversions that are nearly impossible to sum up in a way that other people can just know about me even if they want to accomodate.
Loved all the spicy food as a kid but the sight of mayo made me dry heave.
People tend to eat in groups, and autistic people exist, people with digestive troubles if varying kinds exist, people who have comfort foods and are having a rough time exist, people who just happen to be craving chicken fingers exist.
Basically, if it’s not hurting anybody else, it’s none of your business what makes someone else happy. Good motto for all things in life.
Yeah, like, I’m a picky eater, I am open to trying things when they are available to me, but I hate wasting food so if I’m spending money to have a meal cooked specifically for me, I’m not ordering anything I don’t already know that I like. So if my friends or family decide to go to a restaurant that specializes in cuisine I either already know I dislike or have no idea if I’d like it, I scour the menu for anything I know for a fact that I’ll enjoy. Sometimes people will rag on me for not being adventurous or trying new things but I’m like “look, if you want me to try whatever it is that you are ordering, assuming it’s not something I already know I don’t like, I’ll happily try a bite of it, and if I like it, then the next time we’re here I might order it, but I’m not wasting money on food I don’t know that I’ll eat, and I’m not wasting food by ordering something that might not get eaten.”
It’s weird how many people will shame you for not trying things when it’s your money to waste, but then are put off by the idea of you taking a bite off their plate just so you can try something, like make up your mind, do you want me to try new things or not?
Gahean Wilson had a recurring strip called “Nuts,” about the trials of a kid in a 50’s household. One strip had his parents take him to a restaurant. He wants ice cream for dessert, the parents (off screen voices) go on about how this place is known for their blueberry pie, and he can get ice cream anywhere! He insists, and is eating his ice cream while the parents gush on how great the pie is! (Kid’s thought; “I wish they’d just shut up and let me enjoy my ice cream.”) The last panel has the Kid, lying in bed, listening to his parents puke their guts up because the pie was spoiled!
I don’t think I’d be too hard on Walky for this take, until relatively recently Joe would have been proud to be described that way. I doubt Walky knows that that’s a vulnerable point for him now. (Does he even know about Joe’s ongoing attempt to reform?)
I do feel like Joe needs to just come out and say “hey sorry about that, I’m working on it”. He’s in this weird endless limbo of making sad faces when people treat him the way he’s always wanted to be treated until now.
It’s that constant DoA special of “this problem would be gone if people just communicated”, but it’s not about a hot girl, so I don’t buy in as much.
Joe making the sad face but not saying anything is a very real response though. He likely feels like he deserves that reaction and does not have a right to say anything in his own defence.
Folks feeling penitent, deserved or not, react like this all the time.
I really hated what felt like a “Joyce you suck now, apologize to everyone for everything” conga line during her period/birth control/autism “pre-diagnosis” sequence. It felt like Joyce was catching so much meanness from everyone in the cast.
I don’t have a point I’m making. I still feel like that section went too hard. But I do think I liked where it ended up. Webcomics are weirder than most media for that — if you’re not enjoying an arc, it can seem to wallow in that arc FOREVER. But it’s usually not as annoying in hindsight, given proper pacing once it’s all published.
I don’t know, but I think this all started when her recent atheism was discovered, there she was behaving in a very unpleasant way, then came the diagnosis and everything else and that’s where Joyce felt that everyone was against her (of course, the way they acted was not correct, but Joyce’s reaction was also debatable, in fact, she was even a bit of a jerk towards Dorothy)
Yes! The in-universe time that’s passed since Joe started his mostly-private improvements is super short, so no one is realistically going to know anything has changed unless he says something – they’ll just be vaguely bemused by his relationship with Joyce and keep saying things that hurt him.
Yeah I get the impression that Walky does not mean this in a negative way, rather he is saying that Joe is known for being sex-positive. Like Roz, who is known for such in part because of a video she made with Joe. Walky and Joe aren’t super close, so I think Walky is trying to needle Joyce, as he always does, by pointing out that she’s repressed and also dating a guy who’s got no sexual shame/stigma. It’s wholly about getting to Joyce and I think he’d feel bad if he knew he was hitting a sensitive spot with Joe.
…that’s not what this is, though. Slut-shaming Joe would necessarily have to involve some implication that Joe banging a lot of people is somehow bad, and that’s not what’s going on here at all. It’s not bad that the Chinese food restaurant serves things other than chicken strips.
Okay, let’s say that’s what Walky is doing for the sake of argument (I don’t agree). It’s still not what slut-shaming means.
“Your only value is your sexual prowess” is still a crappy thing to say to someone, but it’s not slut-shaming. It’s… kind of the opposite of slut-shaming.
Yeah Walky is acknowledging Joe as a sex-haver, which is a big part of Joe’s self-professed public image. He’s not saying Joe is diminished by having sex (like the “chewed gum” analogy with which Joyce is likely familiar), or casting aspersions on the act of sex, or saying anything negative. He’s saying that the dude who made a sex tape and had a list ranking women and talks often about his love of fuckin/aversion to feelings is a guy who, uh, has a lot of sex. It’s landing badly but it’s not coming from judgment or malice.
To be considerate of Joe here, it’s less “he wanted this” than, “he truly believed he couldn’t have better than this.” Now that he’s learning that he doesn’t have to just be a beef-cock, it hurts to realize how effective his brand-marketing was. The question now is how he grows from here, and if he learns to extrapolate how it impacted him, to how it impacts others.
Personally, I hope this is a shorter lived “I am not Spock” period for him, and that he can achieve, “I am Spock” self-acceptance without just falling back into self-devaluation. i.e. It’s ok to celebrate who you are or want to be Joe, and not be a toxic version of it. Sex-god who is loyal and loving and sensitive, or wherever it is he’s aiming for.
You can enjoy being physically intimate and it doesn’t have to be enjoyed toxically, nor toxically denied that it’s pleasurable. It can just be intimate and nice and not matter how others value it.
Exactly, only we readers know that Joe wants to change, but Joe himself created an insistent image that at first it was his greatest pride and now he must strive to demonstrate his change.
To be fair, he was there for the conversation about all touch not needing to be sexual just an hour or so ago.
On the other hand, he’s not wrong that both Joyce and Joe do want to have sex.
But it’s not the only reason Joyce is with him, not even the main reason, and Joe’s purpose is no longer to bang as many chicks as possible (though Walky doesn’t know either of those things).
He’s blunt, and he just doesn’t really have any exposure to Joe’s more mature and sympathetic moments. Remember, he had the gender studies class with Joe, so he saw a lot of him at his worst.
Besides, Joe’s called him a manchild plenty of times, too, basically, so it’s kind of just how it is between them.
I don’t know this feels like less Walky being blunt and more him just being a dick. Joe essentially greeted him and he clapped back already at 11. I would not expect to get called out and roasted for asking someone how their lunch was.
It’s only “at 11” because we know what’s going on with Joe. Walky’s not roasting Joe here, just commenting on something everyone knows about him. The image that he intentionally chose to project.
I get that it’s not common knowledge that Joe is trying to change from his fuckboy ways, but I don’t think ignorance justifies Walky coming in so hot. It’s not that he’s wrong about Joe it that he’s unprompted. It would be like bringing up their alcoholism to Ruth or Jen immediately after they just said “hi”.
Like what’s actually going on with Walky here? I know he likes to joke and banter but there’s usually a natural rapport to it.
Eh, i mean… I think the problem here is you’re reading this as Walkys trying to insult the guy. Early comic Joe would take this as a compliment and that’s the info Walkys running on. it’s the banter that feels appropriate based on his read of the situation. Poke fun at Joyce, joke about Joe the horn dog, poke fun at himself in the process
To be honest I kind of think this is more aimed at Joyce. As far as Walky knows, Joe’s the big horn dog and he’s comfortable with that. Joyce is the one who makes neat faces when you even imply she might be horny.
And to be fair, I don’t think he’s really being cruel to her. They’ve got that kind of teasing/insulting relationship going on.
I think their thing is more complicated than that. She’s shown she’s trusted him before and called him part of her family – admittedly that’s when he was still dating Dorothy.
I think they’ve got a bit of the antagonistic (found) sibling thing going on. Not to the level Walky does with Jennifer, but in a similar direction.
+1 to thejeff. Not everyone likes this kind of sibling-esque dynamic, but it’s definitely not just “don’t like each other”. I think Joyce does like Walky, and vice versa.
Which, back when Jennifer was still drinking, Walky would do. Like in his very first appearance. Bringing it up now, when Jennifer’s acknowledged the problem and stopped would be much rougher and I don’t think he has.
But here with Joe, he’s got no reason to think this a sore spot for Joe at all. If this was actually old Joe, he’d either play up his horndog side or maybe be upset Walky was messing up his “game” with Joyce. (Picture this being said as he and Joyce were heading out on their date, way back at the start.)
Walky tends to “come in hot” for a lot of the guys he interacts with. His idea of masculinity is being kind of an asshole. https://www.dumbingofage.com/yawnchasm/
Crossing my fingers for a Walky / Malaya friendship, because they’re both kind of assholes in different enough ways that would take the edge off of each in an entertaining way.
I think an easy way to summarize the differences between Malaya and Walky is that deep down, Walky really does care about people, but he doesn’t think through the consequences of his actions, while Malaya is deeply aware of the consequences of her actions, but they don’t care about people. So they could potentially learn from that difference, or despise each other for it, or both, if they were in a relationship. There would also be some WILD gender dynamics going on there, because Walky is very insistent about both his heterosexuality and masculinity, while Malaya casually transcends gender but is maybe kinda uncertain about their orientation.
I just realized you said “friendship”, rather than “ship”, and am now horribly embarrassed. I think I’m so used to seeing romantic ship comments here that my brain just skipped over the details and assumed…oh well, most of what I said still applies anyway. Whatever.
I really think Walky is just lashing out cuz of the Lucy thing. Like “oh he doesn’t know Joe is trying to change” or not it’s still a jerkass thing to say to someone idk.
I don’t think Joe *does* deserve this. These sorts of ideas are not healthy and he wants to change from having them himself, whether they realize it or not, whether they’re trying to shame him or not, it doesn’t actually help him change, it kinda does the opposite
Walky’s always been a jerk, though since Joe’s legitimately trying to change, he’s being more of one unknowingly. It doesn’t excuse him because ffs Walky.
That said, I do get a recurring “characters seek redemption but other characters who don’t know their struggles bluntly exclaim they can’t change” theme: Rachel to Ruth, Walky unknowingly to Dorothy, and now Walky again to Joe. There might be more I’m missing
…I mean, Walky definitely HAS changed over the course of the comic, but casually stating his incredibly offensive views of somebody else’s character has ALWAYS been kinda a Thing That He Does. He’s not malicious about it or anything, it’s just…oh, how do I put this…by default, he tends to assume that nothing he says will actually be taken seriously, and therefore he can’t actually hurt anybody’s feelings. Also, he frequently struggles with the idea that people (especially himself) can actually have complex inner lives that go beyond punchlines and funny stereotypes. Think about, say, his steadfast refusal to remember his own math tutor’s name (Jason), or the dismissive way that he introduced pretty much everyone on their floor to Booster right after the time-skip. He IS getting better at this, such as when he stood up to his parents, but…well, much like Dorothy, he can’t just reinvent himself completely overnight. It’s gonna take time!
Ouch. Walkie cut Joe to the bone. I wonder if Joe realizes that his attempt to be not like his father resulted in him becoming exactly how he sees his father.
Walky doing more to undermine Joe and Joyce’s relationship just for giggles, than Sarah and Dorothy trying in earnest. https://www.dumbingofage.com/dirt-2/
Just a reminder that Joe never had a problem with his dad being a horndog.
It was the cheating and breaking hearts part he had an issue with (specifically his mom, but also in general).
So, until he does the same to Joyce (or anyone else) he hasn’t become what he disliked in his father.
I do always wonder if it’s just as simple as “JoeDad is a scumbag” or if there’s more to the story, assuming that JoeDad is anything like his son and mostly good at heart. Was it a deeply unhappy marriage or was he just a habitual cheater? Both?
Well, Joe seems to think badly about him, but we’ve never seen dad have any negative aspects besides his horndog actions (I think Joe has said or implied that dad cheats often, but I don’t feel like checking at the moment).
He had no problem falling for and marrying Amber’s mom, despite them only knowing each other a few months, and we haven’t heard about Joe having a slew of stepmoms so this seems to be dad’s second marriage.
He also seems to legit want them all to be a family, despite Joe doubting him and Amber’s lack of social norms.
It would be ironic if dad is trying to change, like Joe, but Joe doesn’t see it or acknowledge it, just like others view him.
It would be ironic, but at least the last discussion about it from Dick doesn’t give any indication that he’s trying anything. Just that he’s not interested right now because Stacy’s hot and the sex is great, so there’s no need to worry.
on one hand, they all deserve to grow and be recognized as changed from whom they were before, including Joe. On the other hand, Joyce and Joe did in fact feel each other up.
well joe did have a brief convo with her saying that he was serious as opposed to walky not rly observing/knowing that joe is changed/trying to be better
Man, poor Joe. Like, I know Walky legit doesn’t *mean* to be dickish here, like he isn’t omniscient and doesn’t know what Joe’s been through with Joyce, but then again, Walky will be the first to know he puts his foot in his mouth, so I doubt he’s going to be super surprised if/when this blows up.
Right. The difference between a quip and being a dick is often razor thin, particularly for someone impulsive like Walky. He isn’t outright stupid, not by a longshot, but his filter is seriously lacking.
Like man I am often overly sensitive to this kind of banter-y friendship dynamic IRL but even I can recognize that Walky isn’t being mean on purpose here. Just because I wouldn’t enjoy it doesn’t make it objectively bad and wrong. And Joe LIKES this type of friendship, I’d be willing to bet? He and Danny rag on each other, too. It’s just that Walky’s “glossary of acceptable ragging topics” is out of date.
How he RESPONDS to having the situation clarified for him will be the actual arbiter of jerkiness (and I think we are coming up on that clariticaton, given Dorothy’s hand on his shoulder).
Pssst, can someone translate Dorothy’s expression in panels 3 and 5 for me? Including the hand on the shoulder.
I’m guessing it has to do with repressing the urge to jump Walky and the continuing comversational topic that not all touch is sexual? But I guess it could also be Dorothy realizing from Walky’s words that she’s been harsh on Joe and the hand is an attempt to stop him or something?
I think it’s probably the latter. But time will tell, I suppose. I do hope she speaks up in his defense. Joe really has grown on me a lot, as is probably intended, but still. I don’t want him to be sad
She’s either sensitive to Joe’s discomfort or she realizes that she too wants to get banged (by Joe) and has to steady herself at the thought of it. (That’s why she grips Walky’s shoulder.)
I agree with everyone who says it’s the latter, but I’d add with some additional discomfort caused by “This is disturbingly close to what I’ve been saying. Am I also the asshole here?”
It’s really difficult when you’re trying to do better, but everyone keeps bringing up the way you used to be. Even if people are allowed to be hurt by your former behavior, it can cut deep. And in this case, it’s not even that they’ve been hurt by it–it’s people casually joking about it. At the start of DoA, I never would’ve thought I’d say this, but goddamn it, do I want to give Joe a big (platonic!) hug.
Remember though that not very long ago, Joe would not only have agreed with this assessment, but been proud of it. We (and Joyce) know that’s no longer the case, but Walky doesn’t
I’m aware of it. I even said “even if people are allowed to be hurt by your former behavior.” But 1) Walky wasn’t hurt by it. 2) Just like people are allowed to hold onto their negative feelings toward your past behavior, Joe is still allowed to feel hurt by jokes like this. People can’t help their feelings, jfc.
Joe is definitely hurt by it, but Walky’s casually joking about it because he doesn’t have any reason to think Joe’ll be hurt by it.
So there is pain, but there isn’t blame.
She got buttered noodles with meatballs in the noodles, not on the side, so I can imagine she’d be able to eat sauced chicken but the second sesame seeds enter the equation she’s out.
Oh hey, Joe, doesn’t it feel pretty shitty to be pigeonholed into a single shallow judgment of your character? Pretty crappy to have people feel so confident ascribing sexual judgments to you flippantly like that. And it’s so uncalled for, since Joe has never done ANYTHING like that…
For real though, while I do think this is too harsh, it makes sense for what most of the cast still sees in Joe. Very few people have been around for his character development. And even if they WERE aware, I’m not certain Joe has quite “paid the piper” for The List. The List was SUPER shitty and he deserves to get raked over the coals for it in-universe, even if we the audience have gotten to see a lot more growth than others have.
In Darren Aronofsky’s PI (1998), the “216 digit” number shown on screen has 218 digits. I bet he added two digits at random spots to [rot13]cerirag nppvqragnyyl qevivat gur nhqvrapr znq jvgu eriryngvba[rot13]
on the one hand, ouch. On the other, I think Walky intended that as a compliment and also would say his entire reason for existing is equally reductive, if not moreso.
Walky has been doing pretty good dealing with Dorothy kindly, but he’s kinda also on a roll of pigeonholing people for who they were like… First semester…and accidentally causing existential crises
But it’s not even really that. Pigeonholing people the way they’ve behaved all along with no reason to think they’ve made a huge change in their approach is thing we don’t unlearn.
Because it keeps working.
It’s hard enough to shift that when we do know they’re trying to change.
Remember when Walky made some dumb ass comment about how many shoes a man should have and Joe shut him down quickly, I’d like to see that Joe a bit more
Walky is the new Danny for this comment section, apparently. Like, this is standard filterless teenager behavior and not even actively malicious, yet you’d think Walky were Toedad levels of abusive to hear this comment section tell it.
I often wonder at the demographic of the comments section, some of the takes are kind of out of touch with the level of emotional (im)maturity generally present in people at that age and they hold these fictional children to standards I wonder if they even hold themselves to.
Joe rated every woman on campus by attractiveness and made it a point to advertise and share that list (among other things he’s done and said to push his own image as a horny boi). He made it his entire identity for most of the time that characters like Walky have known him, so IMO it’s not rude to say “that mans identity is exactly what he’s said it is.”
I swear the daily drip pace of the plot makes readers antsy so they put every character interaction under a microscope and look for things to scrutinize… Which unfortunately leads to a ton of morality policing for some reason.
Joe was Proud of that. He was styling himself as this world’s version of Johnny Bravo and if you asked him back then he’d be proud of his Bang Machine reputation.
If someone was mocking my attempts at improvement they’d have their kneecaps and femurs removed from material reality
Let the guy try to get better, such attitudes will just make him lose confidence and relapse.
I agree that this type of thing can make change harder, but its not Walky’s fault.
Joe hasn’t communicated to his wider social group that he’s decided to change yet, and it hasn’t been nearly enough for them to notice organically.
This is literally what Joe would proudly say about himself not too long ago, and if anything Walky is telling Joyce to respect his life choices.
Lots of people saying “oh, poor Joe” here, and I agree, but…oh, poor Joyce too. I’m sure she’s scandalized. The more so because, I suspect, she’s still coming to terms with the fact that that is one of the things she wants.
BTW Joyce: here’s your opportunity to defend Joe, which would be right and good and incidentally should help cement your relationship.
Because Walky said she must want to bang, since she’s dating Joe. This hurts Joe, but fairly so, since it’s the image he projected up until very recently and Walky’s got no reason to think otherwise, but it’s at least as bad for Joyce since she’s really in denial about wanting to bang and, horny as she is, it’s not actually what she’s with Joe for, but it still goes right to her insecurities.
ehhhhhhhh it’s a pretty good read of Joyce imo. I’ve seen nothing from Joyce that makes me think “sex isn’t her #1 priority in this relationship.”
I’ve seen plenty that makes me think, “sex is her obsession in this relationship but she’s incapable of admitting that to herself because of religious trauma,” mind… just nothing that would indicate that fundamentally she got involved with Joe for any reason but getting railed.
Her disappointment in him when he was pure horndog makes me disagree. There was someone on Patreon around the time of “You’re my anxiety,” who was constantly crowing how Joyce only wanted Joe for his body, but that doesn’t match her charactetization as looking for emotional fulfillment first and foremost.
She absolutely wants in Joe’s pants but it’s definitely not her 1st/only priority in this relationship. Like the sea lion, making that call smacks of being sore that Joyce and Dorothy aren’t an item.
I’m going to have to disagree, superglucose. Joe is one of the few characters in the comic that doesn’t treat Joyce like a child. He’s the same with Dina, honestly. He respects their quirks and interacts with them genuinely. He has challenged Joyce on some of her more harmful beliefs by making her question how she arrived at the conclusions, but he treats her as intelligent and capable of independent growth. Being babied by the people around her was something Joyce had voiced being frustrated by. (Jacob also treated Joyce like a fully capable human, for what it’s worth.) Even if Joyce is starting to break down some barriers that make her feel unable to engage in physical affection with the opposite sex, it doesn’t cancel out that she and Joe seemed to like each other as people before dating.
You know thinking back on it and from what we’ve seen, I wonder if a lot of that treatment comes from Joe’s mother being diagnosed with autism (forget what comic that was exactly.) So a lot of the traits that people associate with being “childish” Joe sees as not being so and he’s thus more able to actually treat them with respect.
They’re both scandalized for the same reason: they fear that Walky is right. But where as Joyce is scared and *excited* that Walky is right, Joe is just scared.
I’m not really a hater, but I’m here to say he is the champion of shoving his entire foot completely inside his mouth once again. The casual unkindness he’s got on display for Joe and Joyce is kinda gross, and very unflattering.
I’m starting to wonder if Walky is jealous of Joe. He’s a hurt flirt as we know with the toy, and he’s always given Joyce shit. She’s getting better – she’s ‘like, the sweetest girl ever’ (Lucy) while getting rid of similar authoritarian propaganda he is. And both times he’s torn Joe down in front of her is right when he’s been. In relationship trouble.
Dorothy is very conflicted here. Why is she walking with Walky? Because she wanted to bang him. Even though, as far as she knows, he’s not on the market. Here’s Joyce and Joe behaving with the restraint she lacks. Walky yelling about people only getting lunch because they wanna bang hits a bit close to home.
She also doesn’t want to see Joyce hurt, which Walky is thoughtlessly doing. He was only hanging around Lucy waiting to reluctantly bang her, even though he knew that wasn’t a great idea. Not that different from Joe and Sarah’s sister.
Hand on the shoulder isn’t doing it Dorothy. Stick your tongue in his mouth.
Oh, I love this, truly masterful work. That ending joke landed perfectly and somehow doesn’t conflict with the genuine pain we see on Joe’s face about hearing Walky’s thoughts about him. Very well done
Dorothy just there watching how Joyce is holding Joe like, “Not all touch is sexual? I can get away with putting a hand on Walky’s shoulder without it being weird, right?”
It seems like it could be either to me, but the roast is more or less in line with what Dorothy thought herself up to this point so my guess is that she’s just being diabolically thirsty for Walky again.
I feel sorry for Joe, like yeah he absolutely brought this on himself, self-identifying by the reputation he has now. But he’s making a genuine effort to be better and nobody will cut him a break or give him a chance to actually be better. That must be really rough
It’s a phrase I associate with stereotyped yuppies. (Note to people who weren’t around in the eighties: “yuppies” were basically techbros, except they didn’t pretend to understand tech). “Okay, yah, have your people call my people. We’ll do lunch!”
Joe’s feelings are hurting in this moment, but I think it’s a very organic way to get Dorothy past her own outdated schemas: sometimes, hearing someone else voice your own opinions gives you clarity, and I think that’s happening here.
Prediction for future strips: Dorothy takes Walky to task, helping to update HIS perception of Joe, and becomes a staunch ally for Joyce and Joe’s relationship. Someone who can help Sarah come around.
Once in a great while, I do get a nostalgic pang for the chaotic batshittery of Joyce/Walky. Just the neuroses of two adult children on an infinite feedback loop where the straight man was whoever was unfortunate enough to be in the room at the same time. Usually Jason.
I feel like people are reading a lot into this. Walky generally thinks in tropes, and that people don’t change all that much (all things being considered, that’s pretty accurate).
However, we are in an arc where multiple characters are undergoing MASSIVE change that isn’t super visible from the outside
So internally, yeah, this is going to drive a lot of anguish.
But both Joyce and Joe would have happily agreed with Walky like, MOMENTS ago, it’s just that we’re in a webcomic form so we’ve had months to adjust our images of these characters, with access to their internal lives and private moments.
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 17h
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 1d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
wilbur, savvy enough to know he's in a comic strip but still not a great actor, awkwardly lifts a muffin up into frame so that we, the audience, understand that he has a muffin right now, which is very important narratively, but he's not really selling it well as an organic, human action
confirming that the reason there's been no Galaxy Version female characters in Blokees until now is that they felt they needed to make Round Lady Thighs For Ladies
It's #webcomicday? We have a special day???
Well, my name is Pat McHoarney and I draw 69 Mouse-Ear Blvd, a multigenerational story about women who all have sexy legs and probably other features. There was a grandmother, but she wasn't hot and so she died off-panel.
Elizabeth Holmes is in prison for defrauding investors through her blood-testing company, Theranos. Her partner, Billy Evans, is now trying to raise money for a company that describes itself as “the future of diagnostics.” nyti.ms/3FbtZm9
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 17h
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 1d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 10d
The New York Times @nytimes.com ⋅ 5d
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 3d
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THE EXCEPTION THAT PROVES THE RULE
DoA Book 14: That’s You Associating All Touch With Sexuality
Oooh I love this game! DoA Book 14: We Didn’t Feel Each Other Up
DoA Book 14: It’s Cuz You Wanna Get Banged
DofA Book 14: But We’re Dipshits.
This is fun!
DoA Book 14: That’s literally why he exists on this Earth.
…no, wait, shit, that’s too vague…
DoA Book 14: You Two Left to Go Feel Each Other Up or Whatever, an’ That Left Us the Odd Ones Out.
It wouldn’t even be the longest title.
DoA book 14: yeah, I guess we did.
Always bugs me that people mis-use that.
The exception to the rule proves that there is a rule that is not being accounted for.
Or.
The exception proves the rule.
“Proves” use here is in the old sense of “tests”. The exception tests the rule. This sense of prove is where the term “proving ground” comes from.
For whatever the worth, this expression exists also in other languages but quite often you’ll find the verb used only does not have this meaning of testing. Just of validating that a rule exists; otherwise what is the exception excepting from?
Yup. In French, “prouve” doesn’t have the meaning of “putting to the test” – it’s just that if you find out why the case is an exception, you’ve just zeroed in on the rule.
If it doesn’t have an exception, can you really call it a rule?
Tests or proofs. Proves is a corruption.
Every word in human language is a corruption. Except in conlangs I guess, but they don’t count.
I like to imagine this entire cavalcade of zingers taking place while Joe’s broken soul still glitters in his eyes.
Walky has never spoken a truer statement.
lol doesn’t stop him from potentially getting slapped (not that i condone violence but i’m sure ppl have gotten hit for less)
I’d be OK with it
About Joe being all about sex, or that Walky is a dipshit?
yes
Chicken strips? What like Sesame Chicken?
Why else are you at a Chinese place besides great-tasting food?
high volume merely good tasting food.
Heh. I’ve actually learned how to cook Sesame Chicken myself from scratch because I can’t afford to eat out all the time.
Dish delish! :-9
Gotta recipe to share?
I use the “Improved Orange Chicken Recipe” from Binging with Babbish with some alterations I use:
– instead of deep-frying chicken pieces, I often find myself baking or air-frying them to save oil
– I almost never use as much salt as a chicken recipe calls for, for this one I use 1/4 tsp salt or even just omit it
– if I don’t have MSG on hand, I just use dashi flakes, substitute 1/4 tsp of the white pepper with Chinese 5-spice, or even just omit it
– For the orange sauce, I sometimes substitute the rice wine vinegar with another 1/4 cup orange juice when I don’t want too much acid, additionally I don’t even use Oleo Saccharum most of the time, usually just 1/2 cup sugar altogether.
One of my favorite comfort foods, can last me all week if I want it too, sometimes I use the leftover sauce on hotdogs LOL :9
Ooh, yummers!
I…
I think having Dashi Flakes at hand is less likely than having MSG at hand
I love orange chicken, so thanks for the link to a recipe.
Chinese buffets sometimes have regular-ass fried chicken, too, probably for the dipshits as Walky puts it, and just since, if you already have the equipment to fry food as it is, adding different kinds of fried foods doesn’t take a lot of investment of time or effort.
So many of the staple dishes at chinese places are really excellent chicken options that I genuinely can’t imagine taking the chicken strips if given the choice.
I go to Chinese buffets for the variety and the portions, and that includes the regular non Chinese chicken strips alongside my general tso’s, my pepper chicken, my orange chicken, etc.
I sometimes even get a slice of pizza and fries.
I guess I too am a dipshit.
If I am at any kind of a buffet and fried chicken is there, I will put some on the plate. It’s hard to miss with it.
Though, the big “not chinese food” thing I used to get at a buffet was crab legs. It was kind of shocking that they had them, given it wasn’t a terribly expensive buffet.
I think they have chicken strips because of all the kids who won’t eat anything else.
I have many memories of choosing a particular restaurant because you can’t get a cheeseburger there….
I mean, sometimes I’ll try a chicken nugget or two at a Chinese buffet if they have them. Just to sate my curiosity.
tbf a lot of ‘foreign/ethnic’ places tends to have something basic + fries on their ‘kids menu’ and stuff (tho i’m sure chicken strips wit hasian flavors would be nice) , i’ve had wings bc it was a cheap appetizer price but that is more of a bonus and would normally get fried rice or lo mein
Yeah, I live in Chinatown and it’s actually a fucking fantastic place to get chicken wings. Also, Korean fried chicken is a legitimate entire genre of food, and karaage is a genuine treat.
But hey. Y’all can be “authentic” or whatever.
Oh myyy god karaage *hearteyes*
To be fair “authentic” Chinese food in the West is almost all Chinese-American cuisine. There might be a handful of dishes that may be the same as in China, but mostly its stuff that was invented over here with what was on hand to appeal more to the tastes of the country they were in.
Yee, according to chef Ming Sai from Simply Ming, Americanized Chinese food tends to be “thicker, blander, and sweeter” than the original Chinese cousine on which they were based.
but Joyce eating chicken with sesame coating TOUCHING it??
Coating and sauces are fine, but she’ll pick off the sesame seeds.
When I was a kid. I got chicken sandwiches while the rest of the family was ordering Chinese food.
When I was a kid, I got the spiciest thing on the menu when the rest of the family was ordering bland sugary Americanized crap.
Oh. Wait. I still do that. And lots of Chinese places have a ‘secret’ menu, translate apps unlock it for you. My favorite Chinese food is spicy braised pork intestine.
My wife would probably be asking you where you got that! I saw her send Setchuwan (sp) back once because it wasn’t spicy enough!
I’ve never seen or even heard of chicken strips at a chinese restaurant, but i suspect this is some kind of midwestern bullshit that’s more common in Indiana
Chinese buffet restaurants in the US generally have “safe” familiar western options for children, fussy eaters, and the obstinate. That’s not just Americanized “Chinese food”, they’ll have cheese pizza, chicken tenders, and fries.
Anything to cater to that one family member who refuses to eat out anywhere other than Applebee’s, TGI Friday’s, or Ruby Tuesday.
Sometimes you go to a restaurant because the other people in the group wanted to go there, and those same people then hassling you because you didn’t order the specialty at the restaurant that you didn’t want in the first place is really annoying.
(Also, chicken strips are great-tasting food.)
There was a time, as a young child, when my parent would take me to a steakhouse and I’d order chicken, and they’d mock me for it. There was a time, as a slightly older child, when I would order a steak as expected of me.
As a teenager, I decided that I would be an adult even if my parents couldn’t and order whatever I wanted.
Eh, chicken strips tend to be bland, dry, overcooked white meat with flavorless breading. Not my thing.
The trick at steakhouses when you don’t like steak is ordering the seafood. They’re usually pretty good at that, they’re typically pretty bad at chicken. And I’m not really that much of a fan of steak. I can do prime rib or fillet occasionally (like every few years or so) but if I’m gonna do beef at all I’d rather have tongue or liver.
Chicken is easy to dry out if you cook it like a beef steak. The secret is to brine the chicken first, then cook it relatively slow on indirect heat. Restaurants don’t want to do either of those things because they take too long or require guessing how much they need too far ahead.
Try cooking skirt steak directly on hot chunk charcoal sometime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5y2voEWJ6U
Thank you! Came here looking for this.
I’m a strange mix of very broad palate and intense highly specific aversions that are nearly impossible to sum up in a way that other people can just know about me even if they want to accomodate.
Loved all the spicy food as a kid but the sight of mayo made me dry heave.
People tend to eat in groups, and autistic people exist, people with digestive troubles if varying kinds exist, people who have comfort foods and are having a rough time exist, people who just happen to be craving chicken fingers exist.
Basically, if it’s not hurting anybody else, it’s none of your business what makes someone else happy. Good motto for all things in life.
Yeah, like, I’m a picky eater, I am open to trying things when they are available to me, but I hate wasting food so if I’m spending money to have a meal cooked specifically for me, I’m not ordering anything I don’t already know that I like. So if my friends or family decide to go to a restaurant that specializes in cuisine I either already know I dislike or have no idea if I’d like it, I scour the menu for anything I know for a fact that I’ll enjoy. Sometimes people will rag on me for not being adventurous or trying new things but I’m like “look, if you want me to try whatever it is that you are ordering, assuming it’s not something I already know I don’t like, I’ll happily try a bite of it, and if I like it, then the next time we’re here I might order it, but I’m not wasting money on food I don’t know that I’ll eat, and I’m not wasting food by ordering something that might not get eaten.”
It’s weird how many people will shame you for not trying things when it’s your money to waste, but then are put off by the idea of you taking a bite off their plate just so you can try something, like make up your mind, do you want me to try new things or not?
Gahean Wilson had a recurring strip called “Nuts,” about the trials of a kid in a 50’s household. One strip had his parents take him to a restaurant. He wants ice cream for dessert, the parents (off screen voices) go on about how this place is known for their blueberry pie, and he can get ice cream anywhere! He insists, and is eating his ice cream while the parents gush on how great the pie is! (Kid’s thought; “I wish they’d just shut up and let me enjoy my ice cream.”) The last panel has the Kid, lying in bed, listening to his parents puke their guts up because the pie was spoiled!
No, like plain breaded chicken strips. The kind you usually get at, like, Kentucky Fried Chicken, or any diner.
I guess Joe deserves this but I also don’t like Walky for it. Like he’s the one dude I expect better from. When did he get toxic?
I don’t think I’d be too hard on Walky for this take, until relatively recently Joe would have been proud to be described that way. I doubt Walky knows that that’s a vulnerable point for him now. (Does he even know about Joe’s ongoing attempt to reform?)
I do feel like Joe needs to just come out and say “hey sorry about that, I’m working on it”. He’s in this weird endless limbo of making sad faces when people treat him the way he’s always wanted to be treated until now.
It’s that constant DoA special of “this problem would be gone if people just communicated”, but it’s not about a hot girl, so I don’t buy in as much.
I think Dorothy may be seeing that face!
Everyone here is really trying to change, this might be Dorothy’s chance to not be so harsh on Joe.
i actually would have completely missed that, thanks
Joe making the sad face but not saying anything is a very real response though. He likely feels like he deserves that reaction and does not have a right to say anything in his own defence.
Folks feeling penitent, deserved or not, react like this all the time.
I really hated what felt like a “Joyce you suck now, apologize to everyone for everything” conga line during her period/birth control/autism “pre-diagnosis” sequence. It felt like Joyce was catching so much meanness from everyone in the cast.
I don’t have a point I’m making. I still feel like that section went too hard. But I do think I liked where it ended up. Webcomics are weirder than most media for that — if you’re not enjoying an arc, it can seem to wallow in that arc FOREVER. But it’s usually not as annoying in hindsight, given proper pacing once it’s all published.
I don’t know, but I think this all started when her recent atheism was discovered, there she was behaving in a very unpleasant way, then came the diagnosis and everything else and that’s where Joyce felt that everyone was against her (of course, the way they acted was not correct, but Joyce’s reaction was also debatable, in fact, she was even a bit of a jerk towards Dorothy)
it’s about a hot _guy_ so I’d buy that for a dollah
Mike would have for a nickel.
Hmmmm, is this bidding for an auction or a contract? Which way are we going here?
Yes! The in-universe time that’s passed since Joe started his mostly-private improvements is super short, so no one is realistically going to know anything has changed unless he says something – they’ll just be vaguely bemused by his relationship with Joyce and keep saying things that hurt him.
Yeah I get the impression that Walky does not mean this in a negative way, rather he is saying that Joe is known for being sex-positive. Like Roz, who is known for such in part because of a video she made with Joe. Walky and Joe aren’t super close, so I think Walky is trying to needle Joyce, as he always does, by pointing out that she’s repressed and also dating a guy who’s got no sexual shame/stigma. It’s wholly about getting to Joyce and I think he’d feel bad if he knew he was hitting a sensitive spot with Joe.
Walky’s slut shaming Joe. I don’t think Walky has felt bad about insulting a guy ever before.
…that’s not what this is, though. Slut-shaming Joe would necessarily have to involve some implication that Joe banging a lot of people is somehow bad, and that’s not what’s going on here at all. It’s not bad that the Chinese food restaurant serves things other than chicken strips.
respectfully, no. It is what he’s doing. He’s reducing Joe to worthless except for banging.
Okay, let’s say that’s what Walky is doing for the sake of argument (I don’t agree). It’s still not what slut-shaming means.
“Your only value is your sexual prowess” is still a crappy thing to say to someone, but it’s not slut-shaming. It’s… kind of the opposite of slut-shaming.
Walky’s not shaming him though? He’s more like… slut alerting?
Slut-acknowledging.
Yeah Walky is acknowledging Joe as a sex-haver, which is a big part of Joe’s self-professed public image. He’s not saying Joe is diminished by having sex (like the “chewed gum” analogy with which Joyce is likely familiar), or casting aspersions on the act of sex, or saying anything negative. He’s saying that the dude who made a sex tape and had a list ranking women and talks often about his love of fuckin/aversion to feelings is a guy who, uh, has a lot of sex. It’s landing badly but it’s not coming from judgment or malice.
To be considerate of Joe here, it’s less “he wanted this” than, “he truly believed he couldn’t have better than this.” Now that he’s learning that he doesn’t have to just be a beef-cock, it hurts to realize how effective his brand-marketing was. The question now is how he grows from here, and if he learns to extrapolate how it impacted him, to how it impacts others.
Personally, I hope this is a shorter lived “I am not Spock” period for him, and that he can achieve, “I am Spock” self-acceptance without just falling back into self-devaluation. i.e. It’s ok to celebrate who you are or want to be Joe, and not be a toxic version of it. Sex-god who is loyal and loving and sensitive, or wherever it is he’s aiming for.
You can enjoy being physically intimate and it doesn’t have to be enjoyed toxically, nor toxically denied that it’s pleasurable. It can just be intimate and nice and not matter how others value it.
Exactly, only we readers know that Joe wants to change, but Joe himself created an insistent image that at first it was his greatest pride and now he must strive to demonstrate his change.
To be fair, he was there for the conversation about all touch not needing to be sexual just an hour or so ago.
On the other hand, he’s not wrong that both Joyce and Joe do want to have sex.
But it’s not the only reason Joyce is with him, not even the main reason, and Joe’s purpose is no longer to bang as many chicks as possible (though Walky doesn’t know either of those things).
He’s blunt, and he just doesn’t really have any exposure to Joe’s more mature and sympathetic moments. Remember, he had the gender studies class with Joe, so he saw a lot of him at his worst.
Besides, Joe’s called him a manchild plenty of times, too, basically, so it’s kind of just how it is between them.
I don’t know this feels like less Walky being blunt and more him just being a dick. Joe essentially greeted him and he clapped back already at 11. I would not expect to get called out and roasted for asking someone how their lunch was.
It’s only “at 11” because we know what’s going on with Joe. Walky’s not roasting Joe here, just commenting on something everyone knows about him. The image that he intentionally chose to project.
I get that it’s not common knowledge that Joe is trying to change from his fuckboy ways, but I don’t think ignorance justifies Walky coming in so hot. It’s not that he’s wrong about Joe it that he’s unprompted. It would be like bringing up their alcoholism to Ruth or Jen immediately after they just said “hi”.
Like what’s actually going on with Walky here? I know he likes to joke and banter but there’s usually a natural rapport to it.
Eh, i mean… I think the problem here is you’re reading this as Walkys trying to insult the guy. Early comic Joe would take this as a compliment and that’s the info Walkys running on. it’s the banter that feels appropriate based on his read of the situation. Poke fun at Joyce, joke about Joe the horn dog, poke fun at himself in the process
To be honest I kind of think this is more aimed at Joyce. As far as Walky knows, Joe’s the big horn dog and he’s comfortable with that. Joyce is the one who makes neat faces when you even imply she might be horny.
And to be fair, I don’t think he’s really being cruel to her. They’ve got that kind of teasing/insulting relationship going on.
Joyce doesn’t really like Walky. It’s more that they snipe back and forth. She only really tolerated him because he dated Dorothy.
I think their thing is more complicated than that. She’s shown she’s trusted him before and called him part of her family – admittedly that’s when he was still dating Dorothy.
I think they’ve got a bit of the antagonistic (found) sibling thing going on. Not to the level Walky does with Jennifer, but in a similar direction.
+1 to thejeff. Not everyone likes this kind of sibling-esque dynamic, but it’s definitely not just “don’t like each other”. I think Joyce does like Walky, and vice versa.
Which, back when Jennifer was still drinking, Walky would do. Like in his very first appearance. Bringing it up now, when Jennifer’s acknowledged the problem and stopped would be much rougher and I don’t think he has.
But here with Joe, he’s got no reason to think this a sore spot for Joe at all. If this was actually old Joe, he’d either play up his horndog side or maybe be upset Walky was messing up his “game” with Joyce. (Picture this being said as he and Joyce were heading out on their date, way back at the start.)
not no reason. he was there for this like an hour or two earlier. He has seen Joe having deeper feelings. Walky’s just kind of shallow.
Walky tends to “come in hot” for a lot of the guys he interacts with. His idea of masculinity is being kind of an asshole.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/yawnchasm/
Crossing my fingers for a Walky / Malaya friendship, because they’re both kind of assholes in different enough ways that would take the edge off of each in an entertaining way.
Ooh, this is a FUN ship idea. Not saying it’s good, mind you, but definitely fun…
I checked the tags, and apparently they’ve had precisely one conversation ever on screen, back in 2019: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/02-but-the-sun-still-shines/deferred/
I think an easy way to summarize the differences between Malaya and Walky is that deep down, Walky really does care about people, but he doesn’t think through the consequences of his actions, while Malaya is deeply aware of the consequences of her actions, but they don’t care about people. So they could potentially learn from that difference, or despise each other for it, or both, if they were in a relationship. There would also be some WILD gender dynamics going on there, because Walky is very insistent about both his heterosexuality and masculinity, while Malaya casually transcends gender but is maybe kinda uncertain about their orientation.
I just realized you said “friendship”, rather than “ship”, and am now horribly embarrassed. I think I’m so used to seeing romantic ship comments here that my brain just skipped over the details and assumed…oh well, most of what I said still applies anyway. Whatever.
I really think Walky is just lashing out cuz of the Lucy thing. Like “oh he doesn’t know Joe is trying to change” or not it’s still a jerkass thing to say to someone idk.
I don’t think Joe *does* deserve this. These sorts of ideas are not healthy and he wants to change from having them himself, whether they realize it or not, whether they’re trying to shame him or not, it doesn’t actually help him change, it kinda does the opposite
I agree that this isn’t helpful to Joe right now, but do you see how he has largely brought it on himself by his behavior in the first semester?
Walky’s always been a jerk, though since Joe’s legitimately trying to change, he’s being more of one unknowingly. It doesn’t excuse him because ffs Walky.
That said, I do get a recurring “characters seek redemption but other characters who don’t know their struggles bluntly exclaim they can’t change” theme: Rachel to Ruth, Walky unknowingly to Dorothy, and now Walky again to Joe. There might be more I’m missing
Not so much “can’t change” here as “has no reason to even think that he wants to”
I think other people not letting someone change is an overarching theme of the entire comic, whether or not the other characters know their struggles.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/scow/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/justthat/
https://www.dumbingofage.com/exhibit/
Numerous characters treat Joyce like she’s still a fundamentalist even when they know she’s not.
Mike was Walky’s roommate. Guess some stuff rubbed off.
Given Joe’s very public do-list and his general public persona surrounding sex, I don’t know if I’d call Walky toxic for this one.
…I mean, Walky definitely HAS changed over the course of the comic, but casually stating his incredibly offensive views of somebody else’s character has ALWAYS been kinda a Thing That He Does. He’s not malicious about it or anything, it’s just…oh, how do I put this…by default, he tends to assume that nothing he says will actually be taken seriously, and therefore he can’t actually hurt anybody’s feelings. Also, he frequently struggles with the idea that people (especially himself) can actually have complex inner lives that go beyond punchlines and funny stereotypes. Think about, say, his steadfast refusal to remember his own math tutor’s name (Jason), or the dismissive way that he introduced pretty much everyone on their floor to Booster right after the time-skip. He IS getting better at this, such as when he stood up to his parents, but…well, much like Dorothy, he can’t just reinvent himself completely overnight. It’s gonna take time!
Ooof Joe
Also nice punchline (^.^)b
A better punchline would be Joe punching Walky
lawsome, but it’s Walky getting punched by various people
Yeah. The answer to feeling a little sad/hurt is definitely physical violence. That’s not an absolutely unhinged reaction at all.
Ouch. Walkie cut Joe to the bone. I wonder if Joe realizes that his attempt to be not like his father resulted in him becoming exactly how he sees his father.
And is there a difference?
Walky doing more to undermine Joe and Joyce’s relationship just for giggles, than Sarah and Dorothy trying in earnest.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/dirt-2/
Just a reminder that Joe never had a problem with his dad being a horndog.
It was the cheating and breaking hearts part he had an issue with (specifically his mom, but also in general).
So, until he does the same to Joyce (or anyone else) he hasn’t become what he disliked in his father.
I do always wonder if it’s just as simple as “JoeDad is a scumbag” or if there’s more to the story, assuming that JoeDad is anything like his son and mostly good at heart. Was it a deeply unhappy marriage or was he just a habitual cheater? Both?
Well, Joe seems to think badly about him, but we’ve never seen dad have any negative aspects besides his horndog actions (I think Joe has said or implied that dad cheats often, but I don’t feel like checking at the moment).
He had no problem falling for and marrying Amber’s mom, despite them only knowing each other a few months, and we haven’t heard about Joe having a slew of stepmoms so this seems to be dad’s second marriage.
He also seems to legit want them all to be a family, despite Joe doubting him and Amber’s lack of social norms.
It would be ironic if dad is trying to change, like Joe, but Joe doesn’t see it or acknowledge it, just like others view him.
It would be ironic, but at least the last discussion about it from Dick doesn’t give any indication that he’s trying anything. Just that he’s not interested right now because Stacy’s hot and the sex is great, so there’s no need to worry.
It wasn’t just the cheating, it was aggressively hitting on any woman even if they didn’t like it. He hit on Sarah during freshman family weekend.
Dorothy applying the hand of “dude you need to stop”
More like the hand of “if you keep talking about inevitable banging you will no longer be clothed in 5 seconds”
80/20 split
She’ll be kicking his shins next.
Shins or femurs?
I mean, it’s not her thing, but I’d still take 12:1 on femurs.
Shins hurt more and are easier to get to.
on one hand, they all deserve to grow and be recognized as changed from whom they were before, including Joe. On the other hand, Joyce and Joe did in fact feel each other up.
Damn even Dorothy seems upset at how visibly hurt Joe is.
well joe did have a brief convo with her saying that he was serious as opposed to walky not rly observing/knowing that joe is changed/trying to be better
Man, poor Joe. Like, I know Walky legit doesn’t *mean* to be dickish here, like he isn’t omniscient and doesn’t know what Joe’s been through with Joyce, but then again, Walky will be the first to know he puts his foot in his mouth, so I doubt he’s going to be super surprised if/when this blows up.
I know Walky legit means to be dickish here. He thinks its charming.
According to a friend of mine, one of the most common failure modes of “witty” is “asshole”.
Right. The difference between a quip and being a dick is often razor thin, particularly for someone impulsive like Walky. He isn’t outright stupid, not by a longshot, but his filter is seriously lacking.
+1
Like man I am often overly sensitive to this kind of banter-y friendship dynamic IRL but even I can recognize that Walky isn’t being mean on purpose here. Just because I wouldn’t enjoy it doesn’t make it objectively bad and wrong. And Joe LIKES this type of friendship, I’d be willing to bet? He and Danny rag on each other, too. It’s just that Walky’s “glossary of acceptable ragging topics” is out of date.
How he RESPONDS to having the situation clarified for him will be the actual arbiter of jerkiness (and I think we are coming up on that clariticaton, given Dorothy’s hand on his shoulder).
Even in panel 5, Dorothy’s expression says it all and the fact that she touches Walky’s shoulder is an obvious sign of “enough.”
shushing through light physical contact
Pssst, can someone translate Dorothy’s expression in panels 3 and 5 for me? Including the hand on the shoulder.
I’m guessing it has to do with repressing the urge to jump Walky and the continuing comversational topic that not all touch is sexual? But I guess it could also be Dorothy realizing from Walky’s words that she’s been harsh on Joe and the hand is an attempt to stop him or something?
Yes, I think the second one. Walky is being obviously rude here, and needs to stop.
I think it’s the latter, personally
I think it’s probably the latter. But time will tell, I suppose. I do hope she speaks up in his defense. Joe really has grown on me a lot, as is probably intended, but still. I don’t want him to be sad
She’s either sensitive to Joe’s discomfort or she realizes that she too wants to get banged (by Joe) and has to steady herself at the thought of it. (That’s why she grips Walky’s shoulder.)
Hey! No!!
(I mean, keep going with this theory)
I agree with everyone who says it’s the latter, but I’d add with some additional discomfort caused by “This is disturbingly close to what I’ve been saying. Am I also the asshole here?”
Ooh, I had not considered that angle. Interesting.
Thanks, everybody!
It’s really difficult when you’re trying to do better, but everyone keeps bringing up the way you used to be. Even if people are allowed to be hurt by your former behavior, it can cut deep. And in this case, it’s not even that they’ve been hurt by it–it’s people casually joking about it. At the start of DoA, I never would’ve thought I’d say this, but goddamn it, do I want to give Joe a big (platonic!) hug.
Remember though that not very long ago, Joe would not only have agreed with this assessment, but been proud of it. We (and Joyce) know that’s no longer the case, but Walky doesn’t
And even after he started to try to change, he still spent quite a while trying to project this image
I’m aware of it. I even said “even if people are allowed to be hurt by your former behavior.” But 1) Walky wasn’t hurt by it. 2) Just like people are allowed to hold onto their negative feelings toward your past behavior, Joe is still allowed to feel hurt by jokes like this. People can’t help their feelings, jfc.
Joe is definitely hurt by it, but Walky’s casually joking about it because he doesn’t have any reason to think Joe’ll be hurt by it.
So there is pain, but there isn’t blame.
Why would you order chicken strips when sweet and sour chicken is just Chinese-Americanized chicken nuggets?
sometimes orange chicken can be hit or miss but i can imagine joyce would prefer the sauce as a dip/on the side versus it being completely covered
She got buttered noodles with meatballs in the noodles, not on the side, so I can imagine she’d be able to eat sauced chicken but the second sesame seeds enter the equation she’s out.
Joe Experiences A Microaggression He Didn’t Know He Was Capable Of Experiencing
There is nothing Micro about the emotional baseball bat smash to the face that Walky unleashed on poor Joe.
Dumbing of Age Book 14: I ORDER THE CHICKEN STRIPS!
I do like that, aside from everything else, Walky does recognize and accept his own dipshittery
Oh hey, Joe, doesn’t it feel pretty shitty to be pigeonholed into a single shallow judgment of your character? Pretty crappy to have people feel so confident ascribing sexual judgments to you flippantly like that. And it’s so uncalled for, since Joe has never done ANYTHING like that…
For real though, while I do think this is too harsh, it makes sense for what most of the cast still sees in Joe. Very few people have been around for his character development. And even if they WERE aware, I’m not certain Joe has quite “paid the piper” for The List. The List was SUPER shitty and he deserves to get raked over the coals for it in-universe, even if we the audience have gotten to see a lot more growth than others have.
I dunno, there’s a good question of who should be raking him over the coals and why.
Some things are unforgivable and no one needs to forgive Joe.
But Walky isn’t a guy related to any of it.
And Walky is not intentionally being hurtful. He is treating Joe according to the reputation that Joe specifically established for himself.
Happy PI Day, to everyone in a Month.Day place.
In Darren Aronofsky’s PI (1998), the “216 digit” number shown on screen has 218 digits. I bet he added two digits at random spots to [rot13]cerirag nppvqragnyyl qevivat gur nhqvrapr znq jvgu eriryngvba[rot13]
Dude what the fuck Walky
Whoa, Walky actually cut Joe.
Aw, Joe. I think Walky has no reason to know anything about Joe changing so I’m not holding this against him at all, but those sad eyes! 8(
Ooh ow ow ow owww.
Not helping, Walky.
“Not helping” might as well be a his second name.
Walky Not helping?
David “Not Helping” Walkerton?
Walky seems pretty highstrung. I wonder whether lunch with his ex immediately folliwing a breakup went well.
on the one hand, ouch. On the other, I think Walky intended that as a compliment and also would say his entire reason for existing is equally reductive, if not moreso.
I think he’s still used to Old Joe and isn’t aware that Joe is trying to learn how to be a boyfriend and not just a hookup.
I don’t know that Walky intended it as a compliment, but it’s not that long ago that Joe would have taken it as one and he knows that.
“we’re dipsh*ts” well, at least he’s honest.
Dorothy very very much want to say something in the last panel
Poor Joe, panel 4. “Damn, Willis. IS that why I exist?”
Insert “gonna cry?” Spiderman 3 meme
Walky with a Critical Hit.
Walky has been doing pretty good dealing with Dorothy kindly, but he’s kinda also on a roll of pigeonholing people for who they were like… First semester…and accidentally causing existential crises
Mike is in him
Oh shit!!
“pigeonholing people for who they were like… First semester” is not in my experience usually un-learned until junior year.
But it’s not even really that. Pigeonholing people the way they’ve behaved all along with no reason to think they’ve made a huge change in their approach is thing we don’t unlearn.
Because it keeps working.
It’s hard enough to shift that when we do know they’re trying to change.
Oh wow, straight to the yugular
I hope Dorothy’s panel 5 chicken strip face will enter the gravatar roulette.
Unbelievably callous, shallow, and downright mean, Walky. You just lost many places on my list. Putting you way down there for that.
Yeah that was fucking gross. Perfectly in par with a know it all 18 year old who just had some break up, but he can fuck off with his hot takes.
Keep in mind that until very recently Joe would proudly agree with Walky. Don’t blame Walky that he didn’t get the memo about Joe being a changed man
For not being able to adjust his comments based on information he doesn’t know and has not been present for?
Perharps Joe should make a Donut Delivery to the boys, too…
Am i the only one who is like “whoa, Joe has tiny baby hand” cause omg, that hand on Joyce’s shoulder is SO SMALL
A little concerned with Joe’s recent behaviour here, like he’s being attacked here and all he does is sad face?
Wheres the telling Walky to shut up or telling Walky he doesn’t know what he’s talking about or the big one would be defending Joyce
But he’s not doing anything, not a good look into his mental state
It’s been five seconds, maybe he’s gonna take a few more to build a response.
I hope so.
Remember when Walky made some dumb ass comment about how many shoes a man should have and Joe shut him down quickly, I’d like to see that Joe a bit more
But Joe thinks he deserves this, because that’s what he was. If it was a thing he could easily brush off and defend himself from, it wouldn’t hurt.
The more you let people define the more…Well it’s something not good
Walky killed Bambi’s mom.
I love how Joe made his entire identity “diabolically horny guy who bangs” and the comment section is furious that Walky has the audacity to say so.
Heh, Walky didn’t get the memo that Joe is a changed man now
Walky is the new Danny for this comment section, apparently. Like, this is standard filterless teenager behavior and not even actively malicious, yet you’d think Walky were Toedad levels of abusive to hear this comment section tell it.
I often wonder at the demographic of the comments section, some of the takes are kind of out of touch with the level of emotional (im)maturity generally present in people at that age and they hold these fictional children to standards I wonder if they even hold themselves to.
I don’t think it really matters how Joe presented himself, someone else saying “He just exists to bang” is rude.
It would be rude even if Joe was all about video games or macrame. It is reductive to say anyone exists on earth only for one thing.
Added on to that is the obvious rudeness of making obviously unwanted comments about other people’s sex lives.
Joe rated every woman on campus by attractiveness and made it a point to advertise and share that list (among other things he’s done and said to push his own image as a horny boi). He made it his entire identity for most of the time that characters like Walky have known him, so IMO it’s not rude to say “that mans identity is exactly what he’s said it is.”
I swear the daily drip pace of the plot makes readers antsy so they put every character interaction under a microscope and look for things to scrutinize… Which unfortunately leads to a ton of morality policing for some reason.
I don’t see this level of hyperscrutiny on comics that update 2-3 times a week. Maybe the fandoms for those are just less spoiled.
Joe was Proud of that. He was styling himself as this world’s version of Johnny Bravo and if you asked him back then he’d be proud of his Bang Machine reputation.
DoA Book 14: Do the Monkey With Me!
If someone was mocking my attempts at improvement they’d have their kneecaps and femurs removed from material reality
Let the guy try to get better, such attitudes will just make him lose confidence and relapse.
True, thing is, Walky didn’t even know that Joe is Trying to change.
“If someone [called me the thing I’ve been calling myself] because they [had no way of knowing I decided to change] I would [commit violence].”
Okay then.
I agree that this type of thing can make change harder, but its not Walky’s fault.
Joe hasn’t communicated to his wider social group that he’s decided to change yet, and it hasn’t been nearly enough for them to notice organically.
This is literally what Joe would proudly say about himself not too long ago, and if anything Walky is telling Joyce to respect his life choices.
Lots of people saying “oh, poor Joe” here, and I agree, but…oh, poor Joyce too. I’m sure she’s scandalized. The more so because, I suspect, she’s still coming to terms with the fact that that is one of the things she wants.
BTW Joyce: here’s your opportunity to defend Joe, which would be right and good and incidentally should help cement your relationship.
Why would she be scandalized? It’s not like she didn’t know what kind of guy Joe used to be.
Because Walky said she must want to bang, since she’s dating Joe. This hurts Joe, but fairly so, since it’s the image he projected up until very recently and Walky’s got no reason to think otherwise, but it’s at least as bad for Joyce since she’s really in denial about wanting to bang and, horny as she is, it’s not actually what she’s with Joe for, but it still goes right to her insecurities.
Ah that’s true
ehhhhhhhh it’s a pretty good read of Joyce imo. I’ve seen nothing from Joyce that makes me think “sex isn’t her #1 priority in this relationship.”
I’ve seen plenty that makes me think, “sex is her obsession in this relationship but she’s incapable of admitting that to herself because of religious trauma,” mind… just nothing that would indicate that fundamentally she got involved with Joe for any reason but getting railed.
Her disappointment in him when he was pure horndog makes me disagree. There was someone on Patreon around the time of “You’re my anxiety,” who was constantly crowing how Joyce only wanted Joe for his body, but that doesn’t match her charactetization as looking for emotional fulfillment first and foremost.
She absolutely wants in Joe’s pants but it’s definitely not her 1st/only priority in this relationship. Like the sea lion, making that call smacks of being sore that Joyce and Dorothy aren’t an item.
I’m going to have to disagree, superglucose. Joe is one of the few characters in the comic that doesn’t treat Joyce like a child. He’s the same with Dina, honestly. He respects their quirks and interacts with them genuinely. He has challenged Joyce on some of her more harmful beliefs by making her question how she arrived at the conclusions, but he treats her as intelligent and capable of independent growth. Being babied by the people around her was something Joyce had voiced being frustrated by. (Jacob also treated Joyce like a fully capable human, for what it’s worth.) Even if Joyce is starting to break down some barriers that make her feel unable to engage in physical affection with the opposite sex, it doesn’t cancel out that she and Joe seemed to like each other as people before dating.
You know thinking back on it and from what we’ve seen, I wonder if a lot of that treatment comes from Joe’s mother being diagnosed with autism (forget what comic that was exactly.) So a lot of the traits that people associate with being “childish” Joe sees as not being so and he’s thus more able to actually treat them with respect.
Yes. And those are the only two, I think, who treat Joe like a complete human being. And he responds in kind.
Even when Joyce was disgusted by his behavior, she treated him like someone who could understand her position and be moved by it.
Eh.
They’re both scandalized for the same reason: they fear that Walky is right. But where as Joyce is scared and *excited* that Walky is right, Joe is just scared.
I know Walky hasn’t seen all of Joe’s character growth but moments like these makes me think Walky’s trying to earn the title of “New Mike”.
He’ll need to win that title from Sarah first.
Walky Noooooooooo!
Why did Dorothy get worried about Joe now? Is it because now she can see, outside her, how she was dealing with Joe?
I was having this exact conversation yesterday, except it was about why you don’t eat the sushi at the Chinese buffet.
if walky has no haters, i’m dead
I’m not really a hater, but I’m here to say he is the champion of shoving his entire foot completely inside his mouth once again. The casual unkindness he’s got on display for Joe and Joyce is kinda gross, and very unflattering.
I’m starting to wonder if Walky is jealous of Joe. He’s a hurt flirt as we know with the toy, and he’s always given Joyce shit. She’s getting better – she’s ‘like, the sweetest girl ever’ (Lucy) while getting rid of similar authoritarian propaganda he is. And both times he’s torn Joe down in front of her is right when he’s been. In relationship trouble.
Poor Joe
Walky, you are not being the bro that Joe wishes you would be.
Dorothy is very conflicted here. Why is she walking with Walky? Because she wanted to bang him. Even though, as far as she knows, he’s not on the market. Here’s Joyce and Joe behaving with the restraint she lacks. Walky yelling about people only getting lunch because they wanna bang hits a bit close to home.
She also doesn’t want to see Joyce hurt, which Walky is thoughtlessly doing. He was only hanging around Lucy waiting to reluctantly bang her, even though he knew that wasn’t a great idea. Not that different from Joe and Sarah’s sister.
Hand on the shoulder isn’t doing it Dorothy. Stick your tongue in his mouth.
If Walky is going to get hit, it’s for calling Joyce a dipshit. Them’s fighting words. It’d be extra spicy if Dorothy smacks him one.
Oh, I love this, truly masterful work. That ending joke landed perfectly and somehow doesn’t conflict with the genuine pain we see on Joe’s face about hearing Walky’s thoughts about him. Very well done
Dorothy just there watching how Joyce is holding Joe like, “Not all touch is sexual? I can get away with putting a hand on Walky’s shoulder without it being weird, right?”
Oops, didn’t mean to report. I meant to say–
Oh!! That’s what she’s doing. I thought she was trying to hold him back a bit with the roast
It seems like it could be either to me, but the roast is more or less in line with what Dorothy thought herself up to this point so my guess is that she’s just being diabolically thirsty for Walky again.
If you don’t want people to acknowledge your reputation, don’t purposely build that reputation in the first place. It’s as simple as that.
The man has only recently realized he didn’t want that reputation and that he was being an ass. People change and feel regret.
Not every response needs to be a rebuttal.
I agree. And some posts require a rebuttal.
Not this one.
If you don’t want a rebuttal, don’t make comments that are very likely to draw disagreement. It’s as simple as that.
Oh hey, you took the thing I said and said it at me 🥱
Yes they do.
Fuck, that’s a good point.
Then bang. That is the purpose of Joe.
where’s roz when you need ’em
the gang’s been slut shaming joe for like 3 storylines
i feel bad for joe. it really sucks having your entire identity boiled down to one trait. especially when that one trait is Sex Pest
I feel sorry for Joe, like yeah he absolutely brought this on himself, self-identifying by the reputation he has now. But he’s making a genuine effort to be better and nobody will cut him a break or give him a chance to actually be better. That must be really rough
Calling it now, Joe and Dotty are going to bang aren’t they?
That’s what’s going to break Joe and Joyce up.
Not going to link this in every comment that says, “Walky doesn’t know about Joe’s attempt to change…”
He was there for this, a couple hours earlier. Less than a month ago for us readers.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/detox/
However you like to think of Walky’s attitude, I’m sure you can adjust for him actually knowing about Joe’s attempt to change.
“Did” lunch. Not “ate”, not “had”, “did”. They committed acts of lunch. They participated in lunch. They exhibited lunch-related behaviors.
It’s a phrase I associate with stereotyped yuppies. (Note to people who weren’t around in the eighties: “yuppies” were basically techbros, except they didn’t pretend to understand tech). “Okay, yah, have your people call my people. We’ll do lunch!”
I think in this context it implies that they did it together, while “had lunch” would be more of a general “you’ve eaten, right?”
Shut up, Walky.
Anyway, this is great.
Joe’s feelings are hurting in this moment, but I think it’s a very organic way to get Dorothy past her own outdated schemas: sometimes, hearing someone else voice your own opinions gives you clarity, and I think that’s happening here.
Prediction for future strips: Dorothy takes Walky to task, helping to update HIS perception of Joe, and becomes a staunch ally for Joyce and Joe’s relationship. Someone who can help Sarah come around.
On the one hand, she’s not dating Joe just because she wants to get banged, that’s not very nice of you, Walky.
On the other hand, it is perfectly okay to for wanting to get banged as part of your motivation for dating someone. Get it, Joyce (if/when you want).
joe : “is this is? is this all I’ll ever amount to to other people?”
“No, but you’re going to have to work through it. You put a lot of work into that image. It’ll take work to dismantle it.”
“But we’re dipshits”.
Once in a great while, I do get a nostalgic pang for the chaotic batshittery of Joyce/Walky. Just the neuroses of two adult children on an infinite feedback loop where the straight man was whoever was unfortunate enough to be in the room at the same time. Usually Jason.
Same.
Walky’s foot continues to be deep within his stomach
I feel like people are reading a lot into this. Walky generally thinks in tropes, and that people don’t change all that much (all things being considered, that’s pretty accurate).
However, we are in an arc where multiple characters are undergoing MASSIVE change that isn’t super visible from the outside
So internally, yeah, this is going to drive a lot of anguish.
But both Joyce and Joe would have happily agreed with Walky like, MOMENTS ago, it’s just that we’re in a webcomic form so we’ve had months to adjust our images of these characters, with access to their internal lives and private moments.
That hand on Walky’s shoulder tells me that Dorothy is rethinking her stance on Joe & Joyce.
Cue Joe’s existential crisis in 5…4…3…2…1…