I mean, it’s an anarchist slogan. I think it would be pretty counterintuitive if one weren’t free to modify it as they see fit. Way I see it, the Spoonerism is just as valid!
I mean, she’s asking him to use the Crime Stuff that he has *repeatedly* tried to not be a part of, but keeps getting pulled back in because he still cares about Sal and the people she cares about. I doubt he’s talking about his Crime Dad when he’s elbow deep with Ethan.
And why are you giving him shit about his Crime Stuff when you are asking him to USE HIS CRIME STUFF FOR *YOU* SAL?!
He should be like a sexy young Mike Ehrmantraut, but without the grandkid of his own. So really he’s like Mike’s granddaughter taking Mike’s place somehow.
Yeah, that’s where I am. I’d like it if he both actually is trying and can succeed. But where’s the drama in that? Hopefully he actually will manage it after some exciting drama storylines. xD
Oh, absolutely not. I’d just argue that we should remember that he was kinda blackmailed into it, and helped, ahem, clean things up afterwards.
Dude is not blameless by any stretch of the imagination. Don’t forget the rotten things he has done.
I just want to point out that things are legitimately complicated, and that’s why he’s a great character, because he’s done rotten things but does seem to be trying to do good on the whole.
He stole money from a dangerous mobster, he pulled Ethen out of his funk by trading spit, he had Amber’s father offed. I mean the man is practically a saint.
I kinda get where Sal is coming from here. Sure, Asher helped Amazi-Girl out because she kicked the shit out of some crooked cops, but he still uses the resources his family gets him access to. He can claim he’s using them for good, but that kind of power is addictive and corrupting.
In exchange for what? What is he is going to ask for in return? That they come hang out with his hot boyfriend and treat him like a fellow college student maybe.
The very concept of “mutual aid” is based on an interconnected network of favors constantly changing hands. Every selfless act of kindness or self-improvement is a deposit in the bank of social or cultural capital. Every social engagement with others is an investment of face-time that can be cashed in later for recognition, affinity, and a predisposition to reciprocal kindness.
Sorry, sorry, not looking to get into a fight. Just my worldview. That brains are basically just dopamine-seeking robots, (or, to be exact, seeking endorphins, norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, ocytocin, and cortisol) that are just always chasing their next “hit”.
That’s why I believe that altruism is inherently transactional. Even if the favor recipient doesn’t even “pay it forward” to the rest of the community, the favor-giver still provides the favor in exchange for the personal vindication and ego-stroking that comes from winning the chance to perceive themself as someone who has done the “right” thing.
…It’s overly reductionist, I know. But analyzing social and emotional interactions as transactions makes the world make more sense to me.
That’s a really cynical, almost hateful way of looking at things, isn’t it? Altruism as nothing but an ego-stroking exercise? It sort of paints anyone who’s kind just to be kind as a self-centered asshole, in a way that sort of looks down on them for doing good. There’s an underlying air of “Oh, well, they’re not really doing it to be kind, they’re doing it to basically jerk themselves off in their own head, and the fact someone else benefits is just a side effect”.
I dunno, it’s a really odd framework to me, and I’m a pretty cynical and paranoid person.
Hi Taffy, thanks for asking.
It doesn’t feel hateful to me. Just rational.
My father called altruism, “enlightened self-interest”, or, more specifically, long-term self-interest. It’s the idea that the long-term survival of the family unit, or the social group, or the society, is just as important as the survival of the individual. So every time one can cultivate internal “feel-good” benefits for their own acts of kindness, and possibly inspire others to “pay it forward” with acts of kindness to others within the same society, one is furthering the long-term survival of the group or of the species. It’s the idea of self-interest as the basic impetus for social cooperation.
Like in Star Trek, The Original Series, in Kirk’s very first visit to the Mirror Universe, he convinces Mirror Spock that there is more profit to be made through the pursuit of non-violent collaboration with other cultures than through conquest. (Paraphrasing a little. Of course, later “Mirror universe” episodes showed the unintended consequences of mucking about in other timelines).
You see it in game theory all the time. “Stag vs. Hare”, “Fish Banks”, “Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma”… that betrayal of others may bring individual short-term gain, but that collaboration with others through reciprocal acts of both kindness and accountability (appropriate sanctions for breaking the social contract) brings about the greatest gain to the greatest number of players over time. The system needs good faith to function.
I don’t mean to sound like some kind of cynical defender of the “greed is good” foundation of capitalism. It just makes the world make more sense to me, is all. Having a rational “grid” or matrix with which to understand motivations, whether those motivations be constructive (sometimes called “good”) or destructive (sometimes called “evil”).
It may be the AuDHD, but if I didn’t have a dispassionate way to analyze actions in terms of motivations and benefits, I would instead just spend a lot of time and energy being angry when people do things that appear to me to be stupid and cruel.
Just a personal perspective. No offense meant. I don’t expect anyone else to share my point of view.
I can understand the logic here but I don’t personally believe every selfless action is done for self-interest or affirmation. In particular, I believe that one can absolutely do selfless actions either because they sincerely believe in doing the right thing, or out of unconditional love. The unconditional part here meaning that the person doing the favor just genuinely wishes for no exchange. Only an action given freely out of love for the person they’re doing the favor for.
A bit cheesy, I know, but it happens. I guess if you really wanna get ‘reductionist’ with it, one could say that by feeling love for the other person when doing something for them, they’re still “getting something out of it”, but… I dunno, by that point it feels like reducing human behavior to 1s and 0s.
“The system needs good faith to function.”: The wonderful thing about iteration is that you no longer need (to hope for) good faith, just have negative consequences for bad faith.
(Though getting off topic, I’m put in mind that depending on culture this can go too far into moral blackmailing–a kind and helpful-towards-others person facing disapproval/pressure/ostracisation due to perception of not being helpful /enough/, falling short of standards they’re being held to which due to individual circumstances they might not be logistically able to satisfy in the first place.)
Adding to my above comment, this comment being personal and specific rather than general,
I after all mention a particularly bad school memory of facing mass condemnation and “that’s not acceptable”
because a peer was asking for money from me for charity,
I only ever received money explicitly for lunch
(daily nutrition for me to remain functional and effectively study),
and so all my peers were confident they had the moral high ground in taking it from me because it was for the claimed reason of giving to people they cared about.
(This in turn brings to mind another social quirk in reality and fiction–“This person harmed another, but should we look on the action more leniently because he claims it was done for his family members?”. There, whether it’s for himself or his family members, it’s still “harming those outside his group for those inside his group”, but by being for a different individual in his group it gives others the illusion that he’s being selfless rather than selfish even though he’s still harming innocents for his own group’s benefit.)
((Perhaps that can even be extended to war, in which when a large enough group attacks a large enough group each member of the attacking group is frequently portrayed as selfless and heroic because they’re acting for the sake of their entire group, even if their group’s actions are selfish and unethical; it only appears altruistic if you only look within that one group and conveniently ignore those of the out-group who are an inextricable part of the interaction.))
My simple rebuttal is a lot of people do incredibly painful and even destroying things for other people. If you argue that “love” and “sacrifice” are selifsh because they feel powerful enough to die for them then you can argue it but it renders the concept of selfish meaningless.
I get it, irrationally helpful people get upset. when someone is rationally helpful. If you’re choosing to be helpful for reasons you might change your mind when your reasons change, after all. Seems creepy to people who can’t imagine not being eusocial.
But… it’s still also creepy how fast NTs jump on Laura for this. Or people on different spectrums.
I wouldn’t assume whether people are NT or not based off of a comment section. I’m also neurodivergent and I simply wanted to contribute to an interesting conversation. I feel no ill will or insult towards anyone here and I doubt anyone else does either.
Yes. Selling our eyeballs to advertisers.
And selling us on the prospect that later we will pay for books and schwag and Kickstarters.
That’s the free media economy: content for clicks.
That perspective is teenagery at best. People do good things for each other constantly without any reasonable expectation for short or long term payment for them, their kin or even their culture. It’s bullshit made to justify a transactional frame of mind, and it needs so much effort to justify it’s thesis when looking at actual cases that it becomes ridiculous. While my sample size is small, people that believed that crap were always manipulative people with little to no altruistic impulses, just looking for an excuse for their worldview.
I don’t believe that feeling good about something makes it inherently “transactional” or selfish or any of the cynical shit above, because if I thought like that I’d be miserable.
HOWEVER, even bacteria show a capacity for altruism. When infected with bacteriophages (viruses that target bacteria, very cool, look them up) some bacteria will use altruistic apoptosis (they die on purpose) to take the baby viruses replicating inside of them down so they don’t infect the rest of the colony.
Like someone getting bit by a zombie and not being stupid enough to hide it and take it back to camp.
the idea that altruism and feeling good about it makes it inherently “transactional” or selfish is,
well, imma just say it
it’s a prime example on just how DEEP conservative pseudo-intellectual bullshit devote to making apathy look like a form of moral superiority is baked into US white culture 9-9
not trying to throw mud on anyone here, just a reminder that age old colonial white establishments have influence on our moral intuition in ways we don’t even realize, it’s not like these ideas just spring ready-made out of some social-historical vacuum, after all!
It’s a very Randian frame of mind, to be sure. (Although Rand was certainly not above relying on the kindness of others when she herself became incapacitated…)
it feels like you started with a sweeping reductionist claim, and then defended it by incrementally bending your definitions in the direction of vagueness until the original claim borders on tautological.
“transactional” is often used as an antonym to “relational”, and at least some of us viewed the original assertion through that lens. im not actually sure there is a coherent definition of “transactional” that is satisfied by saying that i feel good when i get a wriggling worm off of hot pavement and put it in the grass.
If it were possible to nuke this thread I would very much appreciate it. I initiated it at the onset of a bad reaction to a mismatched-med interaction, which only got worse from there. I sincerely regret raising the topic.
A favor because this helps alleviate his guilt towards calling the cops on sal. Not that he had a lot of guilt in the first place. But now with this favor, he probably won’t feel like he owes her.
Possibly a favour to soothe the guilt of his role in the holdup of Ethan and Amber, which resulted in the necessary existence of AG, as well as Sal’s stabbing/getting shipped off to boarding school
Does Asher even know about Ethan and Amber? He knows about Sal and the robbery and probably in general what happened there, but has he tied that to these people he met in college?
When someone’s in a crime family, I definitely understand why Sal is iffy about trusting him. Even if she’s completely over his betrayal that ruined her life for a while, crime families just aren’t safe to trust.
On Asher’s side, I feel for the fact that he tried to leave and was blackmailed by Blaine. I wouldn’t be surprised if that incident led to him owing favors in exchange for, you know, Blaine being ‘taken care of’.
Yeah, this is the real danger. I personally believe that Asher is sincerely trying to leave it all behind him, and I’m willing to take him at his word. The real danger here, at least in my view, is simply whether or not the mob will allow him to leave. Lord only knows what kind of laundry list of things they can hold over his head to keep him entangled in that sordid world.
The real irony is that Asher helping here likely would have pulled him closer into the criminal world. Sal might owe Asher a favor, but who does Asher owe favors to in order now?
Doubt its just a cranky veterinarian from Albuquerque (okay he’s probably not but hey let me headcanon).
Likely no one unless he had to call in a favor just to find this guy. But it’s more likely this guy was someone he already knew about who gets paid in money. A street doc is pretty low in the hierarchy for people to be owing him favors. Especially people as high in the hierachy as Asher would be if he were back in Grandpa’s good graces.
Honestly, I don’t think he called the hit on Blaine, the family just tapped him as one of the only people in the area to inform the crooked cop to take care of the issue.
The cop reported to Asher. There’s no real reason for the crime family to tell Asher to hire the hitman for them, and Asher both hated Blaine and knew Blaine could rat him out.
The main reason I assume he called the hit in, is because he was given a texted response of ‘it’s done’ which is a parallel to when he completed his task for Blaine and then texted Blaine ‘it’s done’. So to me that communicates that in this crime family, contacting someone and saying ‘it’s done’ is their way to say “hey, I did that job you asked for”. I could be wrong but that’s at least how I’d read that exchange.
My guess was that Asher told his family that Blaine was acting like a loose cannon, getting involved with attacking students on a college campus for petty personal reasons, and was trying to blackmail Asher into helping.
Asher likely doesn’t have the pull to “order a hit”, but Asher was absolutely acting like someone that any organized crime group would much prefer to no longer be a *complication* for much longer.
Or, to put another way, Asher didn’t pull the trigger, but he probably loaded the gun.
Gah, Blaine was acting, not Asher was acting. Stupid lack of an edit button!
As for what others have noted, that Asher received the text? I wager Asher was acting as the middleman there. Asher’s family told Asher to pass word onto the cop, and the cop told Asher things were done so Asher could tell his family.
Plus, Asher’s grandpa is an important person in the crime family and likely a higher up. Whatever issues Asher and his family have, I don’t think grandpa would take kindly to his grandson being blackmailed.
Aye, my personal stance is that, assuming that all is as I assumed it was, Blaine committed a very strange and convoluted form of suicide. Dude was unhinged and making threats he could not back up, Asher might have some sins to absolve himself of but Blaine was doing everything he could to thoroughly ask for it…
But he also wouldn’t take kindly to finding out Asher stole from him. Might not be happy with the blackmailer, but Asher couldn’t tell him about the blackmail without revealing what he’s being blackmailed for. That’s why blackmail works.
I honestly think she’s moreso reacting to the fact that he isn’t being truthful about why he helped. She can tell there must be SOME reason why he decided to help, more than just because Sal herself asked, more than because he doesn’t like cops. She asked a straight answer, he gave a hazy answer, so she’s remaining distrustful of him. It’s not how I’d respond in this moment, but I’m not upset with her for her response.
Doopyboop said “On Asher’s side, I feel for the fact that he tried to leave and was blackmailed by Blaine. I”
Anyone got a link to where that happened?
Thanks! I find the enigmatic Asher stuff… enigmatic. Even going back and re reading the whole thing, I miss stuff. It might be the prosopamnesia, but I usually manage in comics.
Well, who else did she have to ask for what she needed? Contrary to the popular belief before we were shown that Asher helped her find this guy roller derby doesn’t really lead to knowing this kind of guy.
“I trusted you, Asher. I welcomed you into my home. We broke bread together. Grandmama made you a cannoli. And how did you repay my generosity? With a rug, made from the butt of a skunk. A skunk butt rug. You disrespected me. You disrespected my Grandmama, whom I buried in that skunk butt rug. I told you to never to show your face here again, but here you are, snooping around with this… [to Amazi-Girl] What are you, a performer? What’s with the costume?”
Asher a hundred percent knows Amazi-girl is Amber. He knows how important Amber is to Ethan. Sal contacting him for help was just icing on an ‘I’m already doing you a favor’ cake.
Looks like he at least knows that Amber and her friend were in the convenience store.
But maybe not that Ethan was that friend, nor that Amber then stabbed Sal…
A) He might owe Amber a tiny favor for getting her father (who was legally obligated to pay her tuition) killed,
OR that,
B) Amber now owes him TWO favors. The first favor he did her was to get her father killed.
…Hopefully he has some inkling about the effect that Sal’s drugstore robbery had on Amber’s life, and might feel that he owes her a little something for that, too. (Other than just Asher’s having let Walky punch him that one time.)
…Then there was the fact that Amber let him and Ethan fall asleep canoodling in her bed. That brings a certain vicarious intimacy to an acquaintance.
And then of course he knows Amber. So he could probably put two and two together and know that Ethan knows Amber, if he knows the details on what went down in the convenience store. (but if he doesn’t know the details, then he just knows they were both there, but not what their relationship to each other is)
Honestly I don’t think Asher would’ve just helped Sal Amber/Amazi-girl if Amber wasn’t important to Ethan. Ethan lost Mike and we saw how much that hurt him. If Ethan lost Amber (estranged or not) that could be too much for him and Asher probably knows that. We haven’t seen too much of them in comic, but Asher seems to have been a pretty good partner and stepping back from Jennifer before going further with Ethan.
If a lot of people are putting Joyce and Dorothy being impulsive, horny, college freshmen making bad decisions then I don’t really think it’s fair to judge middle school aged Asher for letting Sal take the fall.
Much as I adore seeing these two interact….yeah, if I knew someone who swore over and over that they were out of the mob but they still had access to a mob doctor and also had enough of his gramps’ under the table money to go to school, I might also wonder if the lady doth protest too much.
Access to a guy like this is more about knowing their address (maybe their phone number but phones get monitored and tapped) and someone higher up not having explicitly told them to not work with you than being granted access. You show up, you knock, you explain the medical service you need, and you pay them in cold hard cash.
Honestly, unless this is Asher’s grandfather’s personal physican and not just some guy the mobsters go to when injured in ways they don’t want to explain to the police there’s no reason he would know how Asher and his grandfather are getting along.
Definitely depends on the guy but I’d think being able to just turn up with (stolen) money to pay for surgery and being confident the guy won’t just take your money and call the cops when you leave his kitchen surgery speaks to knowing him at least a little well.
You don’t have to know him personally though, you just have to know his reputation in the business. On the other hand, if Asher trusts him enough to not to let his grandfather know, maybe there is a personal connection.
Yeah, it’s the easy confidence that the guy won’t rat them out. You did a better job articulating it than me. I was more worried about the cops but yeah, being ratted out to his grandfather is also a real threat.
That’s a detail I had forgotten… which begs the question of how one gets away from stealing from a mafia don and not immediately end up wearing concrete shoes, blood or no blood. Either Asher is one sneaky mofo, or that fat wad of cash came with some serious strings attached.
Same way you get away with anything: Connections. If the mafia don doesn’t want to kill you for whatever reason, then okay, they’ll let you off with a warning.
Yeah, that’s the other question. Is Asher’s grandfather aware he stole the money and letting it go as long as it’s kept quiet from the others, does he not know Asher specifically took it, or does he have a legendarily bad accountant which makes him at risk of getting Capone’d?
I’m fairly sure he wasn’t but he did have a business they used as a front for money laundering so he either has to have accounting skills or have someone who has accounting skills.
I’ve said before, and I’m not the only one to observe it, that Sal gets her self-righteousness from her mother. She, thankfully, employs it more wisely, but like her mom, she takes time to reevaluate people, if it’s doable at all.
So, it’s easy to think she’s being harsh towards Asher, but while I believe him that he’s tried to create some distance, I do also agree with her that the Asher doth protest too much.
I think she just hasn’t gotten over being betrayed by him for the gas station thing and isn’t keen on his attempts to try and make up for them. I think he’s doing his best to be helpful to try to atone rather than just outright apologize for it.
Honestly at first I thought Sal was reading a bit too much into it when she kept insisting Asher was dangerous — a combination of horny jealousy, typical Sal mistrust, and loathing of family pressure — but it’s kinda hard to not think she has a point.
This is the third time at least that Asher’s mob connections have come up (grampa’s money, Amber’s dad, now kitchen doctor) and he’s still acting like he’s gone clean. He’s definitely trying to turn over a new leaf but he doesn’t have Sal’s ability to just walk away and take absolutely nothing with him.
At first I thought Asher was going to rat out Amber to the cops awhile ago, but now I think he’s going to blackmail her later instead. Since he knows her identity and now he could’ve gotten any number of means of proof discreetly, from hair/DNA, a fingerprint, phone access, a covert photo. Why else play up him slowly figuring out about AG unless he was gonna do something problematic with the info?
Maybe he’ll tell her to deal with some mob people that are giving him trouble leaving, and in exchange he won’t tell the cops that she is who she is. Or maybe it’ll be something to do with Ethan. Especially if all he knows about Amber is that Ethan is currently at odds with her.
On the opposite end of “Why build it up if not to pay it off?”, maybe he’s seeing her do the things she does and thinking “Damn, perhaps I should do the same thing, or at least help her”.
Or. now that he knows the certain masked individual Blaine wanted a side of revenge on was the same person that Blaine said he wasn’t going to hurt he feels like he owes her for his part in that whole mess.
Jog my memory. Did Asher actually KNOW what Blaine was going to do? It’s been a long time so my memory is fuzzy, but I seem to recall that Blaine asked Asher to basically pull the fire alarm so it would get all of the students out of the building, but not what he was going to do after that. I’m sure Asher knew that whatever was going down it wasn’t going to be pleasant, but he probably didn’t know it was going to escalate into mass kidnapping.
Blaine definitely pitched it to Asher as “This is just about money” and side-stepped Asher’s question about hurting people, so I definitely don’t think he realized just how crazy things were going to get.
Blaine all but promised Asher no one would get hurt, and I feel like Asher has probably kicked himself a few times for wanting it to be true enough to go through with it, because Blaine didn’t sell that promise as well as he could have.
I’d venture a guess that whatever Asher thought Blaine was up to, “kidnap a bunch of students to coerce Amazi-girl into kidnapping a different student and also start murdering people” never even crossed his mind as an option, because Blaine’s whole plot was really nuts.
And also because he was their fucking accountant not an enforcer, hit man, leg breaker, or other assorted thug employed by the Family explicitly to do violence.
Just finished a week long stroll through the archives. I laughed, I cried, I had snacks (and learned about Nachitos). No longer can I digest complete story arcs in one sitting. I am now reduced to slavering impatiently for my daily fix. Curses!
okay well amber/amazigirl probably overheard all of that if she’s not too busy learning what antibiotics you take for a gunshot (? “rubber bullet” maybe?) wound
Oh yeah, I saw that… skeet? Bsky post? Before it got deleted. Didn’t really say anything because I’m not Hijabi, but I think ultimately it’s probably better to ask a sensitivity reader for specific queries like that just because asking for feedback from your fanbase on a public forum like Bsky can only go so far (esp. when most of the time they aren’t from the demographics you want to be responding to you).
Depending on how lengthy/in-depth those thoughts are, It might be better if your friend shares their thoughts on a secondary site and then have it linked over tomorrow (just so that any subsequential conversation can be streamlined and not get lost in the comments) but either way the choice is up to them and I’m looking forward to hearing what Lur says.
yeah, as for sharing on a secondary site… they really ain’t on social media at all (also said they are going non-verbal IRL for a bit) given that they are also autistic, which honestly I find more than valid at this point
but hey, better than nothing, and likewise I also looking forward to what they have to say!
Hey, AI buddy, can a cartoonist depict a Muslim woman without her hijab within her own dorm room and other female-only spaces, without offending a devout Muslim?
Sensitivities vary widely within the Muslim community. Some devout Muslims may feel uncomfortable with any public portrayal—real or fictional—of women without hijab, particularly if the illustration is widely disseminated or appears without the woman’s “consent” in a cultural sense. In certain cultures, even possessing or publicizing images of a Muslim woman without her hijab, taken or shown without her consent, is seen as a violation of privacy and could elicit strong negative reactions. Nevertheless, when a cartoon contextually depicts a woman without hijab in spaces where it is religiously appropriate (female-only, private), most would not find this offensive, and some view it as positive representation of their daily lived experience.
It’s important to consider audience, context, and intent: a respectful, informed depiction within an accurate setting is much less likely to cause offense, but individual interpretations and cultural backgrounds will shape the response. If the depiction is intended for diverse Muslim audiences or for publication in Muslim-majority countries, consulting with Muslim women or religious scholars for feedback is advisable to ensure respectful representation.
also re: “when most of the time they aren’t from the demographics you want to be responding to you”
like why are they even answering??? surely they should know better than to answer a question which is best answered by Muslims who actually in touch with the culture???
that’s another thing, if I’m being brutally honest, like we gotta stop resorting to social media as the default means of sorting this kinda stuff out,
strictly speaking, social media sites as The Default are basically what old white corporate movements resorted to after they ran out of land in the world they could colonize — they started taking up ventures where they basically colonize more and more of our attention and headspace
as much as some people are gonna jerk their knees at this, the problem isn’t even the sites like Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, etc, insomuch as people in general choosing such complicit ways to engage with technology these days, sliding into the techno-feudalist landscape of the modern web
Find smaller sites and keep tabs on them through browser bookmarks.
Curate RSS feeds.
Start your own personal website, and look into the Web Revival Movement.
Instead of paying for Discord Nitro, you could use Catbox or an uguu instance.
TL;DR, we should take effort to not let a small handful of platforms and corpos control how we engage with the wider internet
(insert rest of rant here, I just had 4 cups of coffee and there’s a Verlet Integration library calling for me)
Speaking not as a Muslim, I wonder how reasonable it would be to convenient-censor with foreground objects/just out of frame/etc (in similar vein of character’s privates when depicted undressed)
Though that raises to be the question of like… How much is enough in that regard. In the analogy, as long as genitalia and femme-nipples are covered, you can get pretty close to that line, but I don’t think this would work the same way.
My dumb ass was like “it probably depends on the individual, maybe just ask her, you know?” before suddenly remembering this is a fictional character, and thus cannot be reached for comment.
As someone whose own family’s religious history is Catholic, mostly, there are questions you can ask about what’s appropriate to depict and how that would be answered in half-a-dozen different ways depending on who, specifically, you asked. (Catholicism pretends it doesn’t have sects, but in reality I can think of at least four with regional variations — you can’t even get a single answer to “can a Catholic priest be married with kids”) I’m honestly curious as to how one even begins to approach the problem, even with professional sensitivity readers, of “different members of this group will give conflicting answers as to what is appropriate”.
A good sensitivity reader is aware of that as well as of how most other-groups will view what’s appropriate and will usually ask more questions about the characters, setting, and plot in order to help the author (or whatever) understand more about the trade-offs and context of each choice.
That’s a fair answer, and I don’t know why I expected something more objective/locked down than that.
(or is there a counterpoint of “a BAD sensitivity reader will tell you what THEY think is the right way to do things, regardless of the broad sweep of opinions in the group represented” ?)
I shopped at Amazon once, but as the cease & desist orders keep telling me, I am ‘not an authorized spokesperson’ for the company, and my continued showing up at Amazon HQ is considered ‘trespassing’ and ‘harassment’.
Asher’s a great character and I really do like him but if there’s any character that I’m willing to unreasonably take someone’s side on, it is going to be Sal “she has gone through ENOUGH she deserves nice things” Walkerton. She has been wrong before and will be wrong again but I will stand by my bias with pride 🫡
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well Asher,
surely you of all people know it’s “be gay, do crimes”
XD
he’s bisexual, which usually means “eat hot chip and lie”
As a bi person, I don’t really know how to take that comment.
Both ways. *finger guns.*
As a fellow bisexual…we could eat mild chips and tell the truth.
Although I do need to charge my phone.
Actually I defy that stereotype in every way. My phone is regularly undercharged.
duplicitously and with a great deal of capsaicin
Google the phrase “bisexual eat hot chip and lie” and find the meme it’s about, that’s probably your best bet for parsing how you feel about it.
Thank you kindly for delivering this meme to me where I live, under a rock. I was so confused by the original comment
Hey, I was out in left field, too.
Absolutely happy to have brought you along.
Huh, guess I slept through that meme.
I thought it was “Be crimes; do gay.”
I mean, it’s an anarchist slogan. I think it would be pretty counterintuitive if one weren’t free to modify it as they see fit. Way I see it, the Spoonerism is just as valid!
well I mean, anarchist or not, modification over time is how memes evolve by default anyway?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s “do be gay crimes”
It’s “Yabba Dabba Doo crimes and have a gay old time!”
I’ve wondered who “Crimes” is?
It’s Ben Crimes of the Fabtastic Floor. Known for his trademark phrase, “It’s Collaborating Time!”
Something has set off Sal’s Spider-Sense
Was it Asher constantly saying the thing without a prompt?
I mean, she’s asking him to use the Crime Stuff that he has *repeatedly* tried to not be a part of, but keeps getting pulled back in because he still cares about Sal and the people she cares about. I doubt he’s talking about his Crime Dad when he’s elbow deep with Ethan.
And why are you giving him shit about his Crime Stuff when you are asking him to USE HIS CRIME STUFF FOR *YOU* SAL?!
That’s what I’m wondering, too. Why’s Sal biting into the hand that’s helping her out right now?
I mean, because she hates Asher.
Not really a story there.
As someone who read the Walkiverse version of Sal I was to raise my hand and flail it around going “ooh, oooh!” but I will refrain.
Fair enough. But hopefully there’s more to be revealed!
Oh dear, I haven’t read the Walkyverse (other than bits and pieces of Shortpacked), but that sounds ominous as heck…
She was a fairly two-dimensional villain, but it’s really obvious that Willis isn’t interested in making her a villain again.
I never got a 2D villain vibe from her, personally.
Sal-tingle
ah. i think that’s guilt on asher’s face
Well that wasn’t remotely ominous…
hm hm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm….
Thank you for translating this into “Testificate” for everyone. (Will this ancient reference even land? No idea, but hoping.)
It was a well-crafted reference, unlike mine.
Surely Asher can have little a criminal life, as a treat?
I want you to know that your dedication to include the extra “a” typo to fit the original meme is noticed and appreciated
Aw heck, I didn’t mean extra, I just meant mixing them around. You know how it is.
He can, and he should, actually
He should be like a sexy young Mike Ehrmantraut, but without the grandkid of his own. So really he’s like Mike’s granddaughter taking Mike’s place somehow.
I trust him.
👿
got me rolling with that one 🤣
He seems nice.
I’d like to believe Asher, but I’m still not sure I can trust him.
Yeah, that’s where I am. I’d like it if he both actually is trying and can succeed. But where’s the drama in that? Hopefully he actually will manage it after some exciting drama storylines. xD
I believe that he’s sincerely trying to succeed.
At least, right now, in this place.
That’s where the drama is: That he’s trying right now, and the question of success is… well, in question.
Maybe if he stops helping people who ask him to use his Crime Connections, he can stop owing the Crime Family.
Aye. but Sal and AmaziGirl could really do with not needing the help of his Crime Family if they’re going to be sneering at him over it. 😀
I’m not forgetting he conspired in the mass kidnapping.
Oh, absolutely not. I’d just argue that we should remember that he was kinda blackmailed into it, and helped, ahem, clean things up afterwards.
Dude is not blameless by any stretch of the imagination. Don’t forget the rotten things he has done.
I just want to point out that things are legitimately complicated, and that’s why he’s a great character, because he’s done rotten things but does seem to be trying to do good on the whole.
As someone who also experienced being blackmailed, I’m always gonna have a bit of extra sympathy for Asher due to that.
He was blackmailed into participating.
Yeah, but to my mind he redeemed himself by offing Blaine. Maybe that didn’t absolve him in everyone’s eyes, but it did for me.
He stole money from a dangerous mobster, he pulled Ethen out of his funk by trading spit, he had Amber’s father offed. I mean the man is practically a saint.
I kinda get where Sal is coming from here. Sure, Asher helped Amazi-Girl out because she kicked the shit out of some crooked cops, but he still uses the resources his family gets him access to. He can claim he’s using them for good, but that kind of power is addictive and corrupting.
Not just that, even if it doesn’t corrupt him, it could be used as leverage to keep him from leaving, no matter how much he wants to.
Sal ASKED him to use those resources!!! She can’t have it both ways!
Crooked implies they weren’t doing exactly what they’re employed to do.
“OK, the next time you ask for help I’ll explain that I’m completely out of crime.”
Sal please be normal, you don’t have to believe him but he did just do you guys a huge favor, maybe this is not the time.
A favor for what, exactly? That’s the question.
A favor for Amber, who was dying.
In exchange for what? What is he is going to ask for in return? That they come hang out with his hot boyfriend and treat him like a fellow college student maybe.
The FIEND! Poor Amber, forced against her will to watch them cuddle on a divan and have make outs.
*Amber watches Asher and Ethan, takes notes for imminent writing
Amber: Illbeinmybunk.jpg
Asher: Did you just say that out loud in real life?
Ethan: That’s basically as close to socializing as she gets.
100% Amber
I mean there’s no indication it was transactional.
Everything is transactional. Anyone who says different is selling something.
“If you’re not paying for it (somehow), you’re not the customer, but the product being sold.”
Transactional people definitely believe that.
True friends are socialists with favors!
Socialism is transactional too. Just ask an ant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusociality
The very concept of “mutual aid” is based on an interconnected network of favors constantly changing hands. Every selfless act of kindness or self-improvement is a deposit in the bank of social or cultural capital. Every social engagement with others is an investment of face-time that can be cashed in later for recognition, affinity, and a predisposition to reciprocal kindness.
Sorry, sorry, not looking to get into a fight. Just my worldview. That brains are basically just dopamine-seeking robots, (or, to be exact, seeking endorphins, norepinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, ocytocin, and cortisol) that are just always chasing their next “hit”.
That’s why I believe that altruism is inherently transactional. Even if the favor recipient doesn’t even “pay it forward” to the rest of the community, the favor-giver still provides the favor in exchange for the personal vindication and ego-stroking that comes from winning the chance to perceive themself as someone who has done the “right” thing.
…It’s overly reductionist, I know. But analyzing social and emotional interactions as transactions makes the world make more sense to me.
(Sorry, sorry — not trying to pick a fight…)
That’s a really cynical, almost hateful way of looking at things, isn’t it? Altruism as nothing but an ego-stroking exercise? It sort of paints anyone who’s kind just to be kind as a self-centered asshole, in a way that sort of looks down on them for doing good. There’s an underlying air of “Oh, well, they’re not really doing it to be kind, they’re doing it to basically jerk themselves off in their own head, and the fact someone else benefits is just a side effect”.
I dunno, it’s a really odd framework to me, and I’m a pretty cynical and paranoid person.
Hi Taffy, thanks for asking.
It doesn’t feel hateful to me. Just rational.
My father called altruism, “enlightened self-interest”, or, more specifically, long-term self-interest. It’s the idea that the long-term survival of the family unit, or the social group, or the society, is just as important as the survival of the individual. So every time one can cultivate internal “feel-good” benefits for their own acts of kindness, and possibly inspire others to “pay it forward” with acts of kindness to others within the same society, one is furthering the long-term survival of the group or of the species. It’s the idea of self-interest as the basic impetus for social cooperation.
Like in Star Trek, The Original Series, in Kirk’s very first visit to the Mirror Universe, he convinces Mirror Spock that there is more profit to be made through the pursuit of non-violent collaboration with other cultures than through conquest. (Paraphrasing a little. Of course, later “Mirror universe” episodes showed the unintended consequences of mucking about in other timelines).
You see it in game theory all the time. “Stag vs. Hare”, “Fish Banks”, “Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma”… that betrayal of others may bring individual short-term gain, but that collaboration with others through reciprocal acts of both kindness and accountability (appropriate sanctions for breaking the social contract) brings about the greatest gain to the greatest number of players over time. The system needs good faith to function.
I don’t mean to sound like some kind of cynical defender of the “greed is good” foundation of capitalism. It just makes the world make more sense to me, is all. Having a rational “grid” or matrix with which to understand motivations, whether those motivations be constructive (sometimes called “good”) or destructive (sometimes called “evil”).
It may be the AuDHD, but if I didn’t have a dispassionate way to analyze actions in terms of motivations and benefits, I would instead just spend a lot of time and energy being angry when people do things that appear to me to be stupid and cruel.
Just a personal perspective. No offense meant. I don’t expect anyone else to share my point of view.
Man i was with you until you started to get all pretentious about it.
When you try to put everything in such a large scale it makes it sounds meaningless
I can understand the logic here but I don’t personally believe every selfless action is done for self-interest or affirmation. In particular, I believe that one can absolutely do selfless actions either because they sincerely believe in doing the right thing, or out of unconditional love. The unconditional part here meaning that the person doing the favor just genuinely wishes for no exchange. Only an action given freely out of love for the person they’re doing the favor for.
A bit cheesy, I know, but it happens. I guess if you really wanna get ‘reductionist’ with it, one could say that by feeling love for the other person when doing something for them, they’re still “getting something out of it”, but… I dunno, by that point it feels like reducing human behavior to 1s and 0s.
“The system needs good faith to function.”: The wonderful thing about iteration is that you no longer need (to hope for) good faith, just have negative consequences for bad faith.
(Though getting off topic, I’m put in mind that depending on culture this can go too far into moral blackmailing–a kind and helpful-towards-others person facing disapproval/pressure/ostracisation due to perception of not being helpful /enough/, falling short of standards they’re being held to which due to individual circumstances they might not be logistically able to satisfy in the first place.)
Adding to my above comment, this comment being personal and specific rather than general,
I after all mention a particularly bad school memory of facing mass condemnation and “that’s not acceptable”
because a peer was asking for money from me for charity,
I only ever received money explicitly for lunch
(daily nutrition for me to remain functional and effectively study),
and so all my peers were confident they had the moral high ground in taking it from me because it was for the claimed reason of giving to people they cared about.
(This in turn brings to mind another social quirk in reality and fiction–“This person harmed another, but should we look on the action more leniently because he claims it was done for his family members?”. There, whether it’s for himself or his family members, it’s still “harming those outside his group for those inside his group”, but by being for a different individual in his group it gives others the illusion that he’s being selfless rather than selfish even though he’s still harming innocents for his own group’s benefit.)
((Perhaps that can even be extended to war, in which when a large enough group attacks a large enough group each member of the attacking group is frequently portrayed as selfless and heroic because they’re acting for the sake of their entire group, even if their group’s actions are selfish and unethical; it only appears altruistic if you only look within that one group and conveniently ignore those of the out-group who are an inextricable part of the interaction.))
My simple rebuttal is a lot of people do incredibly painful and even destroying things for other people. If you argue that “love” and “sacrifice” are selifsh because they feel powerful enough to die for them then you can argue it but it renders the concept of selfish meaningless.
I get it, irrationally helpful people get upset. when someone is rationally helpful. If you’re choosing to be helpful for reasons you might change your mind when your reasons change, after all. Seems creepy to people who can’t imagine not being eusocial.
But… it’s still also creepy how fast NTs jump on Laura for this. Or people on different spectrums.
Just so you know i am autistic and think laura comment is weird snd confusing.
Sorta wish I hadn’t questioned anything, since it seems to have started a chain.
Laura, thanks for at least elaborating on your thoughts. While I still don’t share them, I at least understand where you’re coming from.
@spriteless aunty It’s kind of creepy how you assume my autistic ass is neurotypical just because I disagreed with that bullshit.
I wouldn’t assume whether people are NT or not based off of a comment section. I’m also neurodivergent and I simply wanted to contribute to an interesting conversation. I feel no ill will or insult towards anyone here and I doubt anyone else does either.
Wait, Willis is selling us?
Yes. Selling our eyeballs to advertisers.
And selling us on the prospect that later we will pay for books and schwag and Kickstarters.
That’s the free media economy: content for clicks.
Advertisers cease to be problem if yiu have a decent adblocker like a reasonable person.
That perspective is teenagery at best. People do good things for each other constantly without any reasonable expectation for short or long term payment for them, their kin or even their culture. It’s bullshit made to justify a transactional frame of mind, and it needs so much effort to justify it’s thesis when looking at actual cases that it becomes ridiculous. While my sample size is small, people that believed that crap were always manipulative people with little to no altruistic impulses, just looking for an excuse for their worldview.
Your timescale isn’t big enough here. Why does doing good feel good to most people?
Because the others tend to die out. There’s natural selection for altruism because it tends to end up preserving, or even spreading, your genes.
I don’t believe that feeling good about something makes it inherently “transactional” or selfish or any of the cynical shit above, because if I thought like that I’d be miserable.
HOWEVER, even bacteria show a capacity for altruism. When infected with bacteriophages (viruses that target bacteria, very cool, look them up) some bacteria will use altruistic apoptosis (they die on purpose) to take the baby viruses replicating inside of them down so they don’t infect the rest of the colony.
Like someone getting bit by a zombie and not being stupid enough to hide it and take it back to camp.
This comments thread turned into a Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comic so soon I almost didn’t notice.
I concur Nymph
the idea that altruism and feeling good about it makes it inherently “transactional” or selfish is,
well, imma just say it
it’s a prime example on just how DEEP conservative pseudo-intellectual bullshit devote to making apathy look like a form of moral superiority is baked into US white culture 9-9
not trying to throw mud on anyone here, just a reminder that age old colonial white establishments have influence on our moral intuition in ways we don’t even realize, it’s not like these ideas just spring ready-made out of some social-historical vacuum, after all!
It’s a very Randian frame of mind, to be sure. (Although Rand was certainly not above relying on the kindness of others when she herself became incapacitated…)
Yes, but that big kind of transactionalism isn’t the same as “what is he going to ask for in return.
When I do something for someone, the payment I want is not to hear about it again or have to think about it anymore.
Yeah, like free software! Clearly Richard Stallman is just running a long con to sell us out.
it feels like you started with a sweeping reductionist claim, and then defended it by incrementally bending your definitions in the direction of vagueness until the original claim borders on tautological.
“transactional” is often used as an antonym to “relational”, and at least some of us viewed the original assertion through that lens. im not actually sure there is a coherent definition of “transactional” that is satisfied by saying that i feel good when i get a wriggling worm off of hot pavement and put it in the grass.
If it were possible to nuke this thread I would very much appreciate it. I initiated it at the onset of a bad reaction to a mismatched-med interaction, which only got worse from there. I sincerely regret raising the topic.
…It’s too bad, really.
…I quite liked being here in this community.
I’m sorry it ended in acrimony.
Maybe he feels somewhat guilty of ordering a hit on her dad?
If so, he shouldn’t; Amber would shake his hand and thank him.
Hell, I’m not even his daughter and it makes me want to buy him cookies and beer.
A favor because this helps alleviate his guilt towards calling the cops on sal. Not that he had a lot of guilt in the first place. But now with this favor, he probably won’t feel like he owes her.
I doubt it’s about helping Sal so much as knowing he was involved in Amazi-Girl’s friends being kidnapped.
Possibly a favour to soothe the guilt of his role in the holdup of Ethan and Amber, which resulted in the necessary existence of AG, as well as Sal’s stabbing/getting shipped off to boarding school
Does Asher even know about Ethan and Amber? He knows about Sal and the robbery and probably in general what happened there, but has he tied that to these people he met in college?
He’s had it tied for him, at least for Ethan: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/anyfurther/
Not sure how much detail he has about their involvement overall, but an at least “Amber was there, too” in addition to what Ethan said in that strip seems reasonable.
Yeah, and way back when Walky and Amber went to find him in his first non-flashback appearance, Amber said she was there.
When someone’s in a crime family, I definitely understand why Sal is iffy about trusting him. Even if she’s completely over his betrayal that ruined her life for a while, crime families just aren’t safe to trust.
On Asher’s side, I feel for the fact that he tried to leave and was blackmailed by Blaine. I wouldn’t be surprised if that incident led to him owing favors in exchange for, you know, Blaine being ‘taken care of’.
Plus, even if one is being completely honest… Crime families have ways to drag you back in
Yeah, this is the real danger. I personally believe that Asher is sincerely trying to leave it all behind him, and I’m willing to take him at his word. The real danger here, at least in my view, is simply whether or not the mob will allow him to leave. Lord only knows what kind of laundry list of things they can hold over his head to keep him entangled in that sordid world.
Well, arranging a murder certainly gives them another hold over him.
The real irony is that Asher helping here likely would have pulled him closer into the criminal world. Sal might owe Asher a favor, but who does Asher owe favors to in order now?
Doubt its just a cranky veterinarian from Albuquerque (okay he’s probably not but hey let me headcanon).
Likely no one unless he had to call in a favor just to find this guy. But it’s more likely this guy was someone he already knew about who gets paid in money. A street doc is pretty low in the hierarchy for people to be owing him favors. Especially people as high in the hierachy as Asher would be if he were back in Grandpa’s good graces.
Unless Asher’s using that past status in the hierarchy to get his services.
Honestly, I don’t think he called the hit on Blaine, the family just tapped him as one of the only people in the area to inform the crooked cop to take care of the issue.
The cop reported to Asher. There’s no real reason for the crime family to tell Asher to hire the hitman for them, and Asher both hated Blaine and knew Blaine could rat him out.
The main reason I assume he called the hit in, is because he was given a texted response of ‘it’s done’ which is a parallel to when he completed his task for Blaine and then texted Blaine ‘it’s done’. So to me that communicates that in this crime family, contacting someone and saying ‘it’s done’ is their way to say “hey, I did that job you asked for”. I could be wrong but that’s at least how I’d read that exchange.
My guess was that Asher told his family that Blaine was acting like a loose cannon, getting involved with attacking students on a college campus for petty personal reasons, and was trying to blackmail Asher into helping.
Asher likely doesn’t have the pull to “order a hit”, but Asher was absolutely acting like someone that any organized crime group would much prefer to no longer be a *complication* for much longer.
Or, to put another way, Asher didn’t pull the trigger, but he probably loaded the gun.
Gah, Blaine was acting, not Asher was acting. Stupid lack of an edit button!
As for what others have noted, that Asher received the text? I wager Asher was acting as the middleman there. Asher’s family told Asher to pass word onto the cop, and the cop told Asher things were done so Asher could tell his family.
Hey, I’ve been assuming all along that Grandpa is senile and Asher has been running things for years.
Now there would be a hell of a twist! “The Godfather” meets “Weekend at Bernie’s!”
1 or 2? Because 2 is a completely different film than 1.
Cards on the table? I’ve never seen any of the Godfathers.
Plus, Asher’s grandpa is an important person in the crime family and likely a higher up. Whatever issues Asher and his family have, I don’t think grandpa would take kindly to his grandson being blackmailed.
Aye, my personal stance is that, assuming that all is as I assumed it was, Blaine committed a very strange and convoluted form of suicide. Dude was unhinged and making threats he could not back up, Asher might have some sins to absolve himself of but Blaine was doing everything he could to thoroughly ask for it…
Blaine was late-Breaking Bad Walter White, except for his entire career and life
like, ego, pride, blowing everything up for his own dumb ass convenience: that’s our Blainey
But he also wouldn’t take kindly to finding out Asher stole from him. Might not be happy with the blackmailer, but Asher couldn’t tell him about the blackmail without revealing what he’s being blackmailed for. That’s why blackmail works.
I thought Blaine stole from Grandpa. Conveniently.
Makes me wonder if Asher blamed the missing funds on someone else. “Look Grandpa, the safe is empty! I bet I know who did this!”
I think when you ask someone for a favor, one which saves your friends life, you can cut the trash talk for one night.
Sal is under no obligation to forgive him for ruining her childhood but this is a bad look.
I honestly think she’s moreso reacting to the fact that he isn’t being truthful about why he helped. She can tell there must be SOME reason why he decided to help, more than just because Sal herself asked, more than because he doesn’t like cops. She asked a straight answer, he gave a hazy answer, so she’s remaining distrustful of him. It’s not how I’d respond in this moment, but I’m not upset with her for her response.
Asher has a history of calling the cops at an inopportune time because it’s funny.
They’ll be showing up at the door momentarily.
Doopyboop said “On Asher’s side, I feel for the fact that he tried to leave and was blackmailed by Blaine. I”
Anyone got a link to where that happened?
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/gramps-2/
Thanks! I find the enigmatic Asher stuff… enigmatic. Even going back and re reading the whole thing, I miss stuff. It might be the prosopamnesia, but I usually manage in comics.
Which brings it back to “IF SAL DIDN’T TRUST HIM, WHY THE HELL DID SHE ASK HIM FOR A FAVOR?”
Well, who else did she have to ask for what she needed? Contrary to the popular belief before we were shown that Asher helped her find this guy roller derby doesn’t really lead to knowing this kind of guy.
Yeah, in addition to not having much choice, I think she does want to trust him. They used to be friends (maybe more?) once upon a time.
A long time ago they used to be friends, but she’s had to think about him a lot lately since she keeps finding herself around him.
Phew, I’m glad we’ve changed gears and there’s no more cheating to worry about. This is *way* lower stakes.
I presume that was ironic…
In a subversion of my usual thing I will say do trust Asher. Just for this one time.
Blasphemy! You’re upsetting the natural order! /s
Even worse, Sirksome is subverting the unnatural order.
Sal was trying. She helped AG stop looking for fights for months.
Asher isn’t being loyle to his capo.
wasted like 7 aprons on this fuggin guy.
“I trusted you, Asher. I welcomed you into my home. We broke bread together. Grandmama made you a cannoli. And how did you repay my generosity? With a rug, made from the butt of a skunk. A skunk butt rug. You disrespected me. You disrespected my Grandmama, whom I buried in that skunk butt rug. I told you to never to show your face here again, but here you are, snooping around with this… [to Amazi-Girl] What are you, a performer? What’s with the costume?”
Huh?
It’s a monologue from Zootopia, which was parodying a monologue from the Godfather.
Ah. Ta!
Cool zootopia reference!
That rug really tied the room together.
Bless you. I just started my morning with a big goofy grin on my face from reading this.
He thought she was daed but he manuged to get the drip on her.
Sal should make him an offer he can’t refuse
Two days ago all the comments were about whether or not Asher had actually left the crime family or not.
I’m excited to see how this gets handled, with the dual “I’ve left”/”So you say” combo
How about, “I was leaving, but you got me pulled back in”?
Asher a hundred percent knows Amazi-girl is Amber. He knows how important Amber is to Ethan. Sal contacting him for help was just icing on an ‘I’m already doing you a favor’ cake.
“I’m doing this for hot emo make outs, not for you.”
Make outs with your partner of choice are a valid, perhaps the MOST valid, reason to do just about anything.
Does he know how important Amber is to Ethan? Ethan seems to have shut her out of his life since before Ethan got together with Amber.
…And at this point, does Asher know that Ethan and Amber were the two in the convenience store that Sal held up?
I do not think he does, he’d have some issues with the make outs if that was the case I reckon.
Looks like he at least knows that Amber and her friend were in the convenience store.
But maybe not that Ethan was that friend, nor that Amber then stabbed Sal…
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/trail/
He may, however, feel that
A) He might owe Amber a tiny favor for getting her father (who was legally obligated to pay her tuition) killed,
OR that,
B) Amber now owes him TWO favors. The first favor he did her was to get her father killed.
…Hopefully he has some inkling about the effect that Sal’s drugstore robbery had on Amber’s life, and might feel that he owes her a little something for that, too. (Other than just Asher’s having let Walky punch him that one time.)
…Then there was the fact that Amber let him and Ethan fall asleep canoodling in her bed. That brings a certain vicarious intimacy to an acquaintance.
Ethan told him he was there: https://www.dumbingofage.com/2024/comic/book-14/03-trystin-in-the-wind/anyfurther/
And then of course he knows Amber. So he could probably put two and two together and know that Ethan knows Amber, if he knows the details on what went down in the convenience store. (but if he doesn’t know the details, then he just knows they were both there, but not what their relationship to each other is)
Ethan then told him too, but i now realise he did not necessarily put 2 and 2 together…
Honestly I don’t think Asher would’ve just helped Sal Amber/Amazi-girl if Amber wasn’t important to Ethan. Ethan lost Mike and we saw how much that hurt him. If Ethan lost Amber (estranged or not) that could be too much for him and Asher probably knows that. We haven’t seen too much of them in comic, but Asher seems to have been a pretty good partner and stepping back from Jennifer before going further with Ethan.
If a lot of people are putting Joyce and Dorothy being impulsive, horny, college freshmen making bad decisions then I don’t really think it’s fair to judge middle school aged Asher for letting Sal take the fall.
Much as I adore seeing these two interact….yeah, if I knew someone who swore over and over that they were out of the mob but they still had access to a mob doctor and also had enough of his gramps’ under the table money to go to school, I might also wonder if the lady doth protest too much.
I might also hesitate to insult him about it when I use those to save my friend’s life.
Pointing out someone says something a lot when there is reason to suspect the contrary isn’t an insult.
Access to a guy like this is more about knowing their address (maybe their phone number but phones get monitored and tapped) and someone higher up not having explicitly told them to not work with you than being granted access. You show up, you knock, you explain the medical service you need, and you pay them in cold hard cash.
Honestly, unless this is Asher’s grandfather’s personal physican and not just some guy the mobsters go to when injured in ways they don’t want to explain to the police there’s no reason he would know how Asher and his grandfather are getting along.
Definitely depends on the guy but I’d think being able to just turn up with (stolen) money to pay for surgery and being confident the guy won’t just take your money and call the cops when you leave his kitchen surgery speaks to knowing him at least a little well.
You don’t have to know him personally though, you just have to know his reputation in the business. On the other hand, if Asher trusts him enough to not to let his grandfather know, maybe there is a personal connection.
Yeah, it’s the easy confidence that the guy won’t rat them out. You did a better job articulating it than me. I was more worried about the cops but yeah, being ratted out to his grandfather is also a real threat.
He says he stole it.
That’s a detail I had forgotten… which begs the question of how one gets away from stealing from a mafia don and not immediately end up wearing concrete shoes, blood or no blood. Either Asher is one sneaky mofo, or that fat wad of cash came with some serious strings attached.
Same way you get away with anything: Connections. If the mafia don doesn’t want to kill you for whatever reason, then okay, they’ll let you off with a warning.
Presumably by being sneaky enough not to be caught – which being the boss’s grandson probably helps with in terms of access.
Yeah, that’s the other question. Is Asher’s grandfather aware he stole the money and letting it go as long as it’s kept quiet from the others, does he not know Asher specifically took it, or does he have a legendarily bad accountant which makes him at risk of getting Capone’d?
Blain was his accountant.
I’m fairly sure he wasn’t but he did have a business they used as a front for money laundering so he either has to have accounting skills or have someone who has accounting skills.
I wonder if the cop Amazi-girl kicked the same one Asher hired to kill her dad and that’s why Asher’s being sassy about helping her.
I’ve said before, and I’m not the only one to observe it, that Sal gets her self-righteousness from her mother. She, thankfully, employs it more wisely, but like her mom, she takes time to reevaluate people, if it’s doable at all.
So, it’s easy to think she’s being harsh towards Asher, but while I believe him that he’s tried to create some distance, I do also agree with her that the Asher doth protest too much.
I think she just hasn’t gotten over being betrayed by him for the gas station thing and isn’t keen on his attempts to try and make up for them. I think he’s doing his best to be helpful to try to atone rather than just outright apologize for it.
“you know I’ve left the crime family by the way I’m helping someone who beat up cops!”
Well, there’s a difference between helping out a hero and still being involved with his family.
Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy, no more, no less.
That quote goes so well with your avatar.
Dumbing of Age, Book 17: Have I Mentioned I’ve Left The Crime Family Recently?
Honestly at first I thought Sal was reading a bit too much into it when she kept insisting Asher was dangerous — a combination of horny jealousy, typical Sal mistrust, and loathing of family pressure — but it’s kinda hard to not think she has a point.
This is the third time at least that Asher’s mob connections have come up (grampa’s money, Amber’s dad, now kitchen doctor) and he’s still acting like he’s gone clean. He’s definitely trying to turn over a new leaf but he doesn’t have Sal’s ability to just walk away and take absolutely nothing with him.
I wanted to start only checking once a week cos Joyce/Dorothy is stressing me out, but I’m way too invested in this storyline
At first I thought Asher was going to rat out Amber to the cops awhile ago, but now I think he’s going to blackmail her later instead. Since he knows her identity and now he could’ve gotten any number of means of proof discreetly, from hair/DNA, a fingerprint, phone access, a covert photo. Why else play up him slowly figuring out about AG unless he was gonna do something problematic with the info?
Maybe he’ll tell her to deal with some mob people that are giving him trouble leaving, and in exchange he won’t tell the cops that she is who she is. Or maybe it’ll be something to do with Ethan. Especially if all he knows about Amber is that Ethan is currently at odds with her.
On the opposite end of “Why build it up if not to pay it off?”, maybe he’s seeing her do the things she does and thinking “Damn, perhaps I should do the same thing, or at least help her”.
Or. now that he knows the certain masked individual Blaine wanted a side of revenge on was the same person that Blaine said he wasn’t going to hurt he feels like he owes her for his part in that whole mess.
I don’t think Asher SHOULD leave the mafia! I think he’s more morally correct and cooler IN it!
I respect your resolve and commitment to your position, even if I do not share it. Shine on you crazy (sicko) diamond.
Can Asher REALLY have a redemption arc if no one knows that he was directly responsible for getting half the characters kidnapped by Blaine?
My vote is yes. Redemption is righting your past wrongs, it doesn’t need people to know about either.
Jog my memory. Did Asher actually KNOW what Blaine was going to do? It’s been a long time so my memory is fuzzy, but I seem to recall that Blaine asked Asher to basically pull the fire alarm so it would get all of the students out of the building, but not what he was going to do after that. I’m sure Asher knew that whatever was going down it wasn’t going to be pleasant, but he probably didn’t know it was going to escalate into mass kidnapping.
https://www.dumbingofage.com/2019/comic/book-9-comic/04-vote-for-robin/money-2/
Blaine definitely pitched it to Asher as “This is just about money” and side-stepped Asher’s question about hurting people, so I definitely don’t think he realized just how crazy things were going to get.
+1
Blaine all but promised Asher no one would get hurt, and I feel like Asher has probably kicked himself a few times for wanting it to be true enough to go through with it, because Blaine didn’t sell that promise as well as he could have.
No one except a certain masked individual.
I’d venture a guess that whatever Asher thought Blaine was up to, “kidnap a bunch of students to coerce Amazi-girl into kidnapping a different student and also start murdering people” never even crossed his mind as an option, because Blaine’s whole plot was really nuts.
And also because he was their fucking accountant not an enforcer, hit man, leg breaker, or other assorted thug employed by the Family explicitly to do violence.
You’re awfully angry about someone’s mob connections for someone who just asked them to use their mob connections, Sal.
THIS! The time to judge someone for their mob connections is NOT right after you’ve used someone you never talk to strictly for their mob connections!
Someone who has definitely left The Crime Family will refer to it as The Crime Family.
ps asher’s outfit is excellent
to be fair idk what else you’d call it unless you’re being all dramatic like “I left that life behind”
Once you’re a made man, you can never leave the family. Right?
Unless he’s just a wise guy, heh. Is he from Newark?
Just finished a week long stroll through the archives. I laughed, I cried, I had snacks (and learned about Nachitos). No longer can I digest complete story arcs in one sitting. I am now reduced to slavering impatiently for my daily fix. Curses!
okay well amber/amazigirl probably overheard all of that if she’s not too busy learning what antibiotics you take for a gunshot (? “rubber bullet” maybe?) wound
okay um sorry if off topic,
but it seems Willis could use some help in depicting Asma:
“oh jeez am I allowed to depict her without her hijab within her own dorm room and other female-only spaces, is that okay, would she be mad at me”
would any Muslims around here care to enlighten him? 😅
https://bsky.app/profile/damnyouwillis.bsky.social/post/3lvo3jmthr22e
(It’s on BlueSky) (for me at least your link is to this page of the comic)
ooops lol thanks Li XD
<3 <3 Happy to help!
as it turns out, Willis deleted the post cuz of the cacophony of conflicting answers he got
like I see why he did that, but like,
being made afraid to ask like that still contributes to Muslims and their culture being “othered” and “unknowable”, and is still part of the problem 😔
BTW Lur (a Muslim friend of mine whose commented here before) said they were gonna give their thoughts tomorrow on this, so yay! ^^
Oh yeah, I saw that… skeet? Bsky post? Before it got deleted. Didn’t really say anything because I’m not Hijabi, but I think ultimately it’s probably better to ask a sensitivity reader for specific queries like that just because asking for feedback from your fanbase on a public forum like Bsky can only go so far (esp. when most of the time they aren’t from the demographics you want to be responding to you).
Depending on how lengthy/in-depth those thoughts are, It might be better if your friend shares their thoughts on a secondary site and then have it linked over tomorrow (just so that any subsequential conversation can be streamlined and not get lost in the comments) but either way the choice is up to them and I’m looking forward to hearing what Lur says.
yeah, as for sharing on a secondary site… they really ain’t on social media at all (also said they are going non-verbal IRL for a bit) given that they are also autistic, which honestly I find more than valid at this point
but hey, better than nothing, and likewise I also looking forward to what they have to say!
Don’t ask social media; ask Perplexity.
Hey, AI buddy, can a cartoonist depict a Muslim woman without her hijab within her own dorm room and other female-only spaces, without offending a devout Muslim?
Sensitivities vary widely within the Muslim community. Some devout Muslims may feel uncomfortable with any public portrayal—real or fictional—of women without hijab, particularly if the illustration is widely disseminated or appears without the woman’s “consent” in a cultural sense. In certain cultures, even possessing or publicizing images of a Muslim woman without her hijab, taken or shown without her consent, is seen as a violation of privacy and could elicit strong negative reactions. Nevertheless, when a cartoon contextually depicts a woman without hijab in spaces where it is religiously appropriate (female-only, private), most would not find this offensive, and some view it as positive representation of their daily lived experience.
It’s important to consider audience, context, and intent: a respectful, informed depiction within an accurate setting is much less likely to cause offense, but individual interpretations and cultural backgrounds will shape the response. If the depiction is intended for diverse Muslim audiences or for publication in Muslim-majority countries, consulting with Muslim women or religious scholars for feedback is advisable to ensure respectful representation.
oh my god that’s even WORSE
TAPS THE SIGN:
https://ludic.mataroa.blog/blog/i-will-fucking-piledrive-you-if-you-mention-ai-again
no more AI no more big techie bullcrap
just UUUUUGH
what ever happened to actually connecting with cultures and the actual humans who part of them??? D:<
also re: “when most of the time they aren’t from the demographics you want to be responding to you”
like why are they even answering??? surely they should know better than to answer a question which is best answered by Muslims who actually in touch with the culture???
that’s another thing, if I’m being brutally honest, like we gotta stop resorting to social media as the default means of sorting this kinda stuff out,
strictly speaking, social media sites as The Default are basically what old white corporate movements resorted to after they ran out of land in the world they could colonize — they started taking up ventures where they basically colonize more and more of our attention and headspace
as much as some people are gonna jerk their knees at this, the problem isn’t even the sites like Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, etc, insomuch as people in general choosing such complicit ways to engage with technology these days, sliding into the techno-feudalist landscape of the modern web
Find smaller sites and keep tabs on them through browser bookmarks.
Curate RSS feeds.
Start your own personal website, and look into the Web Revival Movement.
Instead of paying for Discord Nitro, you could use Catbox or an uguu instance.
TL;DR, we should take effort to not let a small handful of platforms and corpos control how we engage with the wider internet
(insert rest of rant here, I just had 4 cups of coffee and there’s a Verlet Integration library calling for me)
Speaking not as a Muslim, I wonder how reasonable it would be to convenient-censor with foreground objects/just out of frame/etc (in similar vein of character’s privates when depicted undressed)
Though that raises to be the question of like… How much is enough in that regard. In the analogy, as long as genitalia and femme-nipples are covered, you can get pretty close to that line, but I don’t think this would work the same way.
This is surely a question for an imam.
My dumb ass was like “it probably depends on the individual, maybe just ask her, you know?” before suddenly remembering this is a fictional character, and thus cannot be reached for comment.
As someone whose own family’s religious history is Catholic, mostly, there are questions you can ask about what’s appropriate to depict and how that would be answered in half-a-dozen different ways depending on who, specifically, you asked. (Catholicism pretends it doesn’t have sects, but in reality I can think of at least four with regional variations — you can’t even get a single answer to “can a Catholic priest be married with kids”) I’m honestly curious as to how one even begins to approach the problem, even with professional sensitivity readers, of “different members of this group will give conflicting answers as to what is appropriate”.
A good sensitivity reader is aware of that as well as of how most other-groups will view what’s appropriate and will usually ask more questions about the characters, setting, and plot in order to help the author (or whatever) understand more about the trade-offs and context of each choice.
That’s a fair answer, and I don’t know why I expected something more objective/locked down than that.
(or is there a counterpoint of “a BAD sensitivity reader will tell you what THEY think is the right way to do things, regardless of the broad sweep of opinions in the group represented” ?)
Sal, you used a mob doctor.
YOU’RE part of organized crime now.
I shopped at Amazon once, but as the cease & desist orders keep telling me, I am ‘not an authorized spokesperson’ for the company, and my continued showing up at Amazon HQ is considered ‘trespassing’ and ‘harassment’.
Don’t listen to the lawyers, CTPhipps is right. You work at Amazon now, and they owe you backpay.
Any plan that takes money away from Amazon is a plan I’m behind.
I knew you were behind this all along.
As a card carrying progressive, shopping at Amazon does make me part of the Borg.
Of course you couldn’t call her an ambulance. It’s either Amazi-Girl or Amber, not Ambulance.
(Amberlance?)
Amber lamps.
It’s an older reference, sir, but it checks out.
I only know it because of a tomska video.
I think Asher should do MORE crime. I think Asher should get a 1-felony-per-week allowance.
“Thanks Asher”
Yeah, Sal seems to be having some trouble with her diction. She keeps mispronouncing, “Thank you, Ash.”
Asher’s a great character and I really do like him but if there’s any character that I’m willing to unreasonably take someone’s side on, it is going to be Sal “she has gone through ENOUGH she deserves nice things” Walkerton. She has been wrong before and will be wrong again but I will stand by my bias with pride 🫡
“Amazi-Girl, pack your bags, we’re leaving”
Amber: *sigh* “Ok” [starts stuffing her organs into a suitcase]
Asher is kind of parallel to Joe here, re: demonstrating the capacity for change. I wonder how their stories will compare going forward.
there’s other factors, then. what other factors?
DoA’s theme in 2025: Doing the right, stupid thing