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I would imagine THAT mother tasting bitter, unwashed and obviously uneaten (oral is sodomy too!), unlike the young one, who is sweet & fresh and wants to know what the other girlies know!
It’s one thing to denounce someone’s world view, but another to denounce one because of their world view, in their face. In short she’s #2 on current worst parent list, beating Ethan’s mom.
Blaine is too strong for the ‘Worst Parent’ league, he’s actually competing at the ‘Worst Human Being’ level. He’s hoping to graduate to the ‘Worst Living Living Being’ league next fall.
I just realized where your gravatar is from!
you should do Grace’s full squirrel form sometime.
seeing as there are a couple frames of that which
rival Schrodinger from Shine Heaven Now for Cutest Thing Ever
I still have to go with Danny’s parents, Ethan’s mom, and Blaine as tied for first. It’s one thing to be a shitty person, but at least Joyce’s mom still likes Joyce.
There are downsides to being like that, of course…but that comes later. At the moment, the important thing is that Joyce has a hard core under that pink fluffy bunny exterior that only shows when she’s really got her back to the wall. She showed it with Ryan awhile ago, and I do believe she’s about to show it again, though hopefully with slightly less broken glass and face-cutting.
My biggest worry is how much it will cost her…I’m sure Chick-Fil-A is hiring…but will they pay enough to get her through college alone?
Couldn’t you see Billie asking her parents to pay Joyce’s tuition? The gal who puts down her folks for subbing money for love and time spent would be the perfect person to try to buy approval by helping Joyce…
That’s what I like about Joyce. She has a fierce, indomitable
innocence. She’s decent and kind and forgiving, but not a
pushover. Her parents should ask her to lead their Bible
study — they might learn a few things.
No. It says to TRUST into it. Someone trusting in a hole would be someone who jumps into a manhole and hopes that they don’t break their neck in the dark.
Dina’s the clever girl? Maybe she’s a fraction of Clara and one the the DOA cast is this world’s Doctor???
Also, is this the strip with the most posts to date since DoA Started? I was going back and reading the Amazi-Girl tagged ones and noticed Walky use to get around 100-200 on a heavy day, now that’s a light day when everyone’s hung over till noon.
Except me. Cause I don’t drink. Cause I’m too scary sober (or so I was told in college the one time I did want to get drunk and simply pass out due to crap going on).
First she lectures her parents on tolerance, then she eventually leads into Ethan’s sexuality and her own growing libido. Joshua eventually comes and helps argue Joyce’s point by making out with Ethan.
Ethan is her example of how tolerance can help bring people to God, so this sounds plausible. This promises to get very interesting if Joshua speaks up.
That’s why I questioned (back sometime or another) the title of this comic. Yeah, I got the pun … coming of age/dumbing of age. But it looks to me like Joyce, if not actually getting smarter, is at least having her mind expanded which is going to lead to more critical thinking…….
Well… most of the younger people in this comic seem to have their heads on a lot straighter than most of the (aged) parents we’re seeing. Maybe that’s what that means…
Loving Joyce’s eyes in the last panel. Of course, a basic knowledge of physics and biology tells me that she should be blind… But dammitall, she’s a like a female Sinatra.
The lake they went to a couple weeks ago was the same one Dave, Mike, and Roger went to. Billie’s going to grow a tentacle, and Dorothy has a third eye in her palm now.
Dude, she has no pupils. Ruth doesn’t, either. And pretty much everyone else seems to have pupils but no irises. This is what makes you start asking questions about eyesight?
My grandfather, a self called “Atheistic Christan”, likes to say suggesting Jesus was a God/responded to God is an offense to him. It is way more impressive to be just that awesome and progressive without a high divinity backing you up.
While your grandfather had some antecedents like Jefferson. I think Jesus was pretty clear he believed in God. He just had the novel idea God wasn’t an asshole.
I think about that every time Joyce (in the past) or her parents or anybody really spout off something judgmental, condescending, or rude about the religion of another person! It’s like, in the moment, they are seriously failing at their own religion so they doubly don’t have the right to criticize somebody else for theirs (or lack thereof).
I dunno, if there’s one group of people the historical Jesus would have hated (other than the temple priests and the Romans), it would definitely be atheists. I’m pretty sure that denying the existence of god could get you stoned to death in those days (and I don’t mean a marijuana overdose).
As a Jew born and raised, Jesus would have been taught that the Gentiles were exactly that (denying God’s existence, they had their own gods). He actually focused a lot of his time and effort on the Gentiles, who in many ways were easier to convert than the Jews themselves.
Actually, at the time the Gentiles probably would have thought the God of the Hebrews existed, they just didn’t think he was great enough to worship. Religious conflicts of the ancient world were less “my god is real and yours isn’t” and more “my god could beat up your god”.
Also, a lot of things could get you stoned back then. Jesus helped with that once, can’t see why he wouldn’t do so again.
Depends on the religion, I think. The Greeks and Romans were generally pretty inclusive. They didn’t want to risk offending someone who could screw them over later, so they pretty much said “Oh, you’ve got a god? Cool, how about we worship them too?” Of course, that kinda didn’t apply so much when the response was “Sure, so long as you tell all your other gods to fuck off.”
Also, Jesus didn’t really spend that much time and effort on the Gentiles. He’d help them out when they came to him, but not before he was all like “Yeah, I’m not really here to help you guys.” The Gentiles weren’t really a major concern until after death, resurrection, and ascension; by which point the Jews had made it pretty clear they didn’t particularly like him.
It’s not so much that the Romans were being tolerant and inclusive and inoffensive as just that they were polytheist anyway. When you’ve already got a dozen major gods and scores of minor ones, what’s a few more? Obviously the conquered people’s gods are inferior to the Roman gods – or the Romans wouldn’t have been able to conquer their people – but there’s no reason to believe that they aren’t equally real, or to prevent the conquered people from keeping their gods (which tends to keep them content)… so long as they accept the Roman ones as well.
Which is where the Jews, and later the Christians, ran into problems. They had one god who forbid them from accepting other gods, and while the Romans would’ve been okay with letting them continue to worship YHWH, they couldn’t tolerate the Jews refusing to accept the Roman gods… because, as with the later medieval Divine Right of Kings, the Roman gods were also the root of Roman secular authority. Denying the Roman gods denies the divinity of the Caesar and so the justification for his authority, which is not just blasphemy but rebellion.
Wow. Fundies will be fundies, but these two are a special kind of crazy.
Or maybe I’m just too used to living in a state that’s forty-some percent non-religious (albeit only twenty-some percent irreligious, because people are obstinate and tribalist).
Yeah, there are some things with Joyce and her family that I feel like I’ve seen from my upbringing.
Then there are other things that make it abundantly clear that there’s just a massive difference when a viewpoint becomes the majority. Think my highschool had 5 Mormons out of over 1000 students, and a lot of the “Christian Majority” has never been to church. On a basic level you do need to be able to get along with everybody once you step out of church and get enveloped by a society that doesn’t agree with your religious opinions.
“The decency to keep it to yourselves” is a concept completely foreign to me, I suspect in part because if it were to be applied we would be the ones expected to stay silent about our views. That would sit poorly with us on multiple levels.
Wonder if it would mellow the Browns out or extremitize them if they had to live in a place that wasn’t predominately Christian for a while? I’m sure there are places where they’d be expected to have the decency to keep it to themselves. Seems like that could be an empathy enhancer or it could just reinforce their sense that non-agreeing views shouldn’t be allowed to spread through word of mouth.
Extremitize, probably. I’m guessing they consider Christianity a threatened and persecuted minority that somehow simultaneously should be the law of the land.
Of course they do. That’s what fundies teach each other and their kids. I went to a Lutheran high school (which is to say, a lot milder than the Browns) and we got a pretty good dose of the persecution crap. Luckily, they didn’t try to extend morality into politics all that much, but still.
May I just say that I find it hard to relate to any of this, having been born and raised in a country with an overwhelming Catholic majority; nearly everyone is an atheist around here O_o
Ugh. I’ve gotten so used to hearing shit like that in my real life, for, let’s say, queer reasons. Even though Joyce’s awful, awful mother is being a bigot about religion, instead, just reading it on a webcomic page was enough to cause an instant flinch and flare of anger.
[hugs] I’m sorry you have to hear BS like that. And I’m sorry you felt reverberations from the strip. I’m atheist and bi, but I’ve fortunately not actually run into anything like that so far. Still, it makes me happy that Joyce isn’t backing down.
“We better stock up on the holy water and call the priest hunny, it looks like our special double prayer didn’t exorcise the athiest demons from our widdle girl”.
Probably. Once your mind is as set as Carol’s is, there are no shades of grey. There is only black and white; ‘us’ versus ‘them’; “true God” versus “false God”.
Although belief in at least some kind of higher power, even an incorrect (to Carol’s mind) god, may not be *quite* as bad as no belief in any god.
You would be surprised. I’ve met people from similar crazy sects as Joyce’s. They were vaguely capable of semi-polite discourse with my atheist friends. When they heard I was Catholic though… You’d think I just told them I planned on coming into their home in the middle of the night and eating their children… hell that probably wouldn’t be too far off in their heads…
I figure it’s because it makes them question their motives: did they really break away from Rome because of all the corruption, or was it just a power grab?
Plus, a lot of the things that people think Catholics believe are complete nonsense.
Just throwing in my two cents, there was a time I was in Georgia with family looking for a Catholic church to go to mass. One response we got, with the most hateful look in the world was “No, we’re all Christians here.”
Something like, Ethan, Agatha, Amber, Asma, (and so on with the A’s…) have erred in trying to know God, but Dorothy has committed the unpardonable sin of actively rejecting ‘im.
I’m trying to find out if canon law allows you to request a formal excommunication without having to provoke them into it, like stealing a bunch of consecrated host wafers and serving them with french onion dip at your next pot luck. More like, you know Monsignior I’m just not feeling it, I think a clean break would be the best thing. Very civil of course, no hard feelings.
I don’t know, since God doesn’t believe anyone created Him, that means that God is an atheist, so therefore it is perfectly logical for demons to also not believe in a creator.
How do we know God doesn’t think someone created Him? Has anyone ever asked the guy? I mean, He never talked about it, but wouldn’t it be weird for a scientist to start discussing theology with the contents of a Petri dish?
Reminds me of a line from one of Pratchett’s Discworld novels, about witches not believing in the gods. “They deal with them, of course, but they know them too well to believe in them. It would be like believing in the postman.”
Discworld gods (and they are legion) have powers, but only so long as people believe in them and then in direct proportion to the number of their believers. In fact, that’s the basis of Sir Pterry’s novel, “Small Gods”.
It shouldn’t be about sides. When you worry more about sides than what the good Lord taught you, you weren’t on the right side to begin with. Unless we’re talking about those darn communists atheists, with their souls full of maggots.
Do maggots have maggot-souls that could enter a human soul, or are the maggots merely our own mind’s attempt to visually represent the state of their soul due to the shortcomings of our mortal eyes?
And this where the comic takes a dramatic genre shift and becomes about a rogue Joyce on the run, assisted by the heartbroken Amazi-Girl and dissatisfied loner Billie. Oh and Dina is there too… Because she’s Dina.
You never actually see Dina move. You just open a door and she’s behind it.
Ever see this video of a Sherlock Holmes game where they didn’t bother to give Watson any walking animations, so you just turn around and he’s there? Dina can do that.
I imagine that this is when the story starts to explore what Dina really is. What was previously written off as a gag is now given a canon explanation involving some form of passive teleportation or multipresence. No matter where they Run, Dina is often already there. No matter where they turn, Dina is just around the corner. Standing there, her mind on other things. When approached about the subject she doesn’t seem to understand that there’s anything odd about her being here, when just an hour ago she was there and she didn’t board the plane with them.
This is going to be awesome! I can hardly wait until…. Thursday or Friday to see what happens next, cause you just know Dave is gonna cut away to someone else for Tuesday’s comic!
(I’m kidding. I hope I’m wrong. Dear lord, I hope I’m wrong.)
The most awkward possible thing would be for Billie to walk in on Ruth, Dina, and a tied up Faz. If there is anything that could cause conflict/misunderstanding, that would do it.
That’s actually the main reason I have Firefox installed on my phone. The context menu for images (it comes up when you long press them) includes the hover text.
If people can’t be bothered to read youtube descriptions before spouting their reactions, it’s unsurprising they’d also comment before doing so :/
But the irony abounds.
S’funny. Not haha-funny, but still. Most of this seems “under” the top from my personal experience. I know my personal situation was not “the norm”, but my personal experience also tells me that horrible or bad parents (or at least one such) ARE the norm, and those who are okay through to awesome are the exception.
I envy anyone who believes otherwise- and pity them for the shock they’ll experience should they develope a close relationship with someone who suffered some form of physical, mental or emotional abuse or neglect.
Joyce’s NO. Amber’s uppercut is all tied up with her emotional damage and the fear of becoming like her dad. This is Joyce making the choice to not be like her parents.
While I personally find a great deal of catharsis in Amber’s punch, largely because I’ve been reading about Amber from Shortpacked! as well, and believe me it’s well deserved, I still harbor concerns about her use of violence to solve her problems. Immensely satisfying, definitely deserved, but with caveats.
Joyce’s NO, however, I believe to be immediately followed up by verbal declarations of principle. It’s equally a step away from her parents, but probably going to be short and long-term a more healthy way of dealing with her family.
Not that there was a healthy way of dealing with Blaine. Besides therapy.
Ditto.
I remember one of the first times I stood up to my parents. Granted, it wasn’t in a scenario nearly as fraught with conflict as this one, but it was one hella scary moment anyway.
Joyce’s no. Amber’s punch was difficult for her, but it came from internalized rage and hatred that had been building for years. Joyce, on the other hand, is rejecting a lifetime of indoctrination and beliefs that she’d held very closely until just recently, and is doing so to a person she still loves. That is really very hard.
NOW shit is about to go down…You know, I don’t get why some people would think Jesus, the man that taught to love your enemy would be OK with villainizing and shuning other people.besides this is America where suppose live freely together even if we have different beliefs
America: Home of the free Christian Caucasian Males, and Home of the Brave everyone else.
Fun fact: New Zealand is apparently the freest country in the world.
Frodo didn’t do much fighting. He kinda just wandered across the world, got his finger bit off, then wandered back. Pretty much everyone else did the fighting for him.
I don’t remember Carol being this bonkers in the original ‘verse. Well, not as much about religion, at least. She was fixin’ for some grandkids, though…
Buuut…in any case… Joyce leveled up!
+1 Angerface
+2 Spine
Carol in the other universe was all out of fucks to give. She was encouraging premarital sex. This is a new Carol. Apparently one with no blackjack OR hookers.
I find it strangely odd that as I got to read the very last panel, my playlist brought up one of the battle themes from Gurren Lagann. It just… went perfect with that face!
Also, I can’t tell whether or not I’m hoping there will be friend of Dorothy puns when Joshua shows up. Along the lines of, “Mom, Dad, I have to know, which is worse: your daughter’s friendship with Dorothy, or that I’m a friend of Dorothy? Quick, Joyce, while they’re BSODing, grab your friends and run!” And then they all go out for ice cream while their parents fail forever at rebooting. /end “in my fanfic”
Back when I was an undergrad (80s), I don’t remember there being a parents’ weekend. Now all the parents helicopter in to visit their kids and interfere with their process of becoming adults. Or maybe I’m just a victim of the golden age syndrome. :p
Nah man, we need to see this one through. Joyce is going to stand her ground, point out where her mother is wrong, and then punch Amber’s dad in the face. Because seriously, fuck that guy.
My problem with this strip (yes I have a problem with it) is that it breaks the strips own canon to beat the dead horse of ‘Christians are/can be intolerant,’ a second time. In the strips where Joyce invited Dorothy to church, she specifically said that the reason her family went to non-denominational churches was to avoid intolerance of others, including atheists. I was really looking forward to seeing Joyce’s parents because of that moment, thinking I’d get to see normal, accepting Christian characters. Maybe Willis forgot about that?
I had a much longer answer about this on Tumblr that was too long ago to dig up, but having grown up in a church, Joyce’s parents actions here make perfect sense to me and are in completely alignment with the strip about Mary. Intrachurch politics are complicated, and suffice to say there’s a huge difference to some people between tolerating and accepting outsiders who come to your church and those who exist outside of it. One is being welcoming, the other is being on guard, and to many these are completely compatible things, depending on context.
This is reflected in Joyce’s dialog with Ethan in yesterday’s strip. If you’re going to church, you’re fine, no matter who or what you are, because you are submitting.
Mr. Willis, I’m sure you have been told this before, and I mean no offense, but you kinda grew up in a weird church man. And this is coming from someone who grew up in a pentacostal church. :\
I don’t know anyone who was so adamantly opposed to the possiblity of their children having non-believer friends. In fact, I kinda think it was encouraged in an “out reach” sort of way – you know, Jesus hanging out with the whores and sinners sorta thing.
Nah, I don’t think he’s going in that direction; simply expressing amazement. Lots of us readers -Christian or otherwise- were seriously weirded out to find just how much of the crazy religious crap in these strips comes from Willis’ actual life experience.
Shock of impact ran along my arm. Jet of warmth spattered on chest, like hot faucet. It was Joyce who said “Mother” then, muffled under latex. It was Joyce who closed her eyes. It was Rorschach who opened them again.
The problem is, everyone appears to decide for themselves what the “important parts” are.
So, instead of being the basis for morality, which wouldn’t be possible anyways due to the internal contradictions, the Bible ends up being a buffet line that people pick and choose from on the basis of their own preferences. This is a poor system of “morality”.
After all the giant, unappreciated scene-setting panels that didn’t leave a big impression, Willis decided to make one panel to rival all others… and make it one word with one face.
Excellent. Joyce just cut the leash. Fantastic eyes.
The faces of both of her parents are really…they are…Hell, good job Mr. Willis: the faces of these two reflect their belief in the crap they are spewing very well.
I believe that all of us have prejudices. We think we are smarter, or our families are better off, or our religion is better ….but most of us aren’t rabid. At least I don’t think we are, for the most part.
We, most of us, go with the live and live idea of life. There are bigots out there for sure, but they are a minority. I hope.
I do not understand how people can actually think like this, and say these things to other people. I seen it, I’ve had it happen to me, I read about it….but I just don’t see how people like Joyce’s parents can live with themselves.
An entire life built around the acceptance and reverence of a book of fairy tales as literal, ultimate Truth, and the denial of reality can do that to people. Joyce is lucky she was exposed to the right influences in college to help her gain more insight to the world around her, that things are more than just the black and white morality her parents raised her around to believe. I’m sure Joshua was the same way, but he’s been keeping it under wraps the whole time for the sake of stability, which you can’t really fault him for.
A “book of fairy tales”? Psalm 137:9 “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” Isaiah 14:21 “Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.”
What kind of fairies are we talking of here exactly?
The unexpurgated original fairy tales were often that dark and violent. Rape (The prince finds Sleeping Beauty asleep and leaves her that way–but pregnant with twins), cannibalism (the wolf serves Snow White her grandmother’s flesh and blood before eating her–there is no helpful huntsman to save them) and mutilation (Cinderella’s stepmother forces her daughters to cut off parts of their own feet to fit the shoe) abound.
So the Bible is right up there with those, I’d say.
For Snow White, you would have her having sex with the Dwarves. And then being murdered by her mother. Not step-mother.
Or she would be murdered by nearby villagers for being a soulless, fae whore.
Came across a book whose author researched the oldest versions of the tales.
The fictional kind? Like every other fairy tale? Violence has nothing to do with what constitutes a fairy tale; even Little Red Riding Hood had a violent ending.
In my country, there’s this cute little christmas gnome that lives in postcards and children shows and you’re supposed to leave out a bowl of porridge for him during christmas and it will make him very, very happy and add a bit of extra festive cheer to the whole neighborhood.
The myth originated from a diabolical little christmas gnome that would make the woman of the house give birth to lepers, make the soil infertile or impale your best cow on the roofbeam of the barn if you didn’t leave out a bowl of porridge for christmas.
Sadly, I’ve known Christians like this, and yeah, they can get that stupid. The reason is pretty straightforward: Since they only interact with other Christians, outside of a token Jewish person, everything that is basically the devil.
Which of course wholly misses the point of Christ’s message. He hung out with hookers and Roman tax collectors. Murders, rapists, the possessed, he was there for them all, and his entire message of one of welcoming everyone in without judgment. Unfortunately, 2000+ years later, there’s a significant minority who have taken this to mean that they should exclude anyone who has come to Christ.
I’m having a hard time here, not with Joyce’s parents, but Dorothy’s. Man, guys, you can stop being nice when someone’s being an utter bongo. Tell the parents to piss off and invite Joyce for cookies or something to show you don’t blame her.
They’re trying, I think, to avoid causing problems for Joyce. (Which means the Keeners are being more considerate towards a stranger, knowing only that she’s their daughter’s friend, than the Browns are towards their own daughter.) If they avoid confrontation here, Joyce and Dorothy can resolve things between themselves after the parents have gone, and the Browns don’t even have to know about it. If they spark a confrontation, on the other hand, it’s possible that the Browns could pull Joyce out of school and ship her off to Christian college with Becky (where they’d probably end up dropping out, becoming drippie hifters, and eloping to Vermont to get married after Becky gets Joyce lesbian-pregnant), and then the girls won’t have a chance to maintain their friendship.
Joyce is too honest for that, though. She can’t tell her parents that she’ll stay away from Dorothy and then, after they leave, go apologize and continue hanging with Dorothy while hiding it from her parents. It might be the most practical solution, but it’s not acceptable to Joyce. So she’s chosen her battle.
If the Keeners won’t step up to support Joyce now that she’s declared war, I’ll judge them more harshly.
(And it occurs to me that there’s another way that Dorothy could find out that Joyce is conversion-dating a gay guy… Joyce could tell her. Because however afraid Joyce might be of losing Dorothy, she’s really bad at dishonesty.)
The Keeners absolutely should not step up and support Joyce, as that can do nothing but make the situation worse. No matter the context, this is a struggle between Joyce and her parents, and if Joyce is going to win this one, she needs to do it solo. If the Keeners stick a toe in this at all, Joyce’s whole argument, in her parents’ minds, will be tainted by the devil talking through the atheists. Joyce needs to win this as Joyce, in terms that Joyce would use, with convictions that Joyce would possess.
Agreed. To be frank, it isn’t the Keeners’ business to intervene in an argument between a child and parent, no matter how good their intentions are. Family problems are best settled within the family; if anything, I’d be hoping for Joshua to speak up in defense of his sister.
Well, how can Jesus save you if you don’t listen to your elders conveying his words and lessons? Religion is carried by a chain of trust. Science is written by the prince of this world. Opening your eyes means not trusting your heart.
If his words would not be convincing, he would not be the master of lies.
I mean, you live in the U.S.A. You should understand the rationale of people who would rather have the economy go down in flames than let their own Romneycare be funded along with the rest of national expenses and take credit for it (not talking about the credit ceiling here).
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away.
If you think religion is being “carried by a chain of trust”, you might want to familiarize yourself with the history of religions betraying the trust of their followers. The fact that all I have to say is “altar boy” and the examples of that trust being horribly betrayed immediately pop into your head shows you just how often and easily trusting religion blindly promotes problems and protects the guilty.
My heart just pumps blood, and I trust it to do that. It doesn’t think or feel, that’s my brain’s job. Not closing my eyes to reality means that I don’t get blindsided by things I don’t want to believe are true, but are true anyways.
So, eyes don’t cause sin, brains do. If you want to scoop out your own brains, that’s your problem. I prefer to believe in things for good reasons, not merely because I’m afraid of what boogeymen from old storybooks will do to me if I don’t believe.
If Jesus needs to explain himself through my elders, I don’t see why I should trust him. If science is the Devil’s work, then the Devil is our only chance to make this a finer world and I think that counts for more than any empty promises about some fantastical afterlife where everything’s fixed for us.
Religion is an authority which does immense amount of good for a lot of people in terms of providing comfort, solace, and philosophical as well as emotional advice. Religious leaders, politicians, and psychopaths exploit these feelings of good will all the time and have done so throughout history.
Hate the bigots, don’t hate the message. Unless, of course, the bigots say the message is hate in which case punch them in the nuts.
What about if the message is “You can never be or do or make anything as good or important or beautiful as God, nor can anyone else, nor can you ever be fully responsible for your own life, and nothing that happens matter until after you die”? Cause that’s the sum of the comfort that religions provide as far as I understand, and I think a lot of us could stand to be a little more challenged.
That’s a pretty interesting summation of religion. The idea of God being perfect might argue you can never create anything as good as God, however the entire point of religion is to try to become more godly. Which means self-improvement. The second part is complete bullshit barring given that every single denomination I know teaches personal responsibility is the absolute MOST important part of religion. I’m Presbyterian and we believe in predestination but that doesn’t mean anything since we despite destiny existing, we still have to act to a godly manner. The final bit about “nothing important on this world” is bizarre because the most basic (and erroneous) interrpetation of the afterlife is, “This world is extremely important because it’s by our actions here we’re judged worthy of life after death.”
For me, religion provided me the comfort of an idea there’s a universal ORDER and that there’s a unification between nature, the divine, and man so that it all has a greater purpose. Also, that this purpose means that all those people I love will be able to eventually be reunited with me. I also learned a lot about morality from my religion–ironically, including, that being mean to gays sucked. I was prejudiced, ironically, before I became religious and finding God helped me realize what a colossal asshole I was being.
(Sorry gays of the world, I really am! You can have free cookiees whenever you drop by my house!)
Well, I’m going to have to go ahead and agree with you that there’s an inherent order in the universe. Call it God or an emergent tendency towards harmony, I don’t think that makes any difference. The question is what you do with this apparent higher power, beyond your understanding: Do you try to figure it out or do you bow down and worship it?
About the afterlife, I think you missed my point. You say (although you also say it’s erroneous?) that this world is important because it determines our place in the afterlife, which is exactly what my problem is: That this world matters more in its context with the afterlife than it matters to itself. Because of the belief that afterlife lasts forever, life becomes ultimately insignificant, and you get people who torture themselves their whole lives thinking no finite amounts of discomfort can be measured against the eternity of afterlife. Who’s to say what’s a moderate response to the promise of infinity?
Whereas if you treat this world like it’s the only thing that matters, it becomes infinitely precious which I think is a healthy attitude to have if you’re going to live in it.
As to the question of responsibility, you can look at today’s strip to see what I mean. Joyce thinks her strength comes from God, not herself, not her friends. You can teach people to act responsibly all day, but there’s always a greater responsibility, beyond what any person can live with, and as long as you’ve got a superior being you can always shift that responsibility to Him whenever it’s too much for you; you’re never forced to feel an uncomfortable level of responsibility. I mean, there’s some theories of quantum mechanics that suggest we’re constantly creating the world around us and the only thing that stops us all from taking conscious control of that process and becoming literal Gods is that we don’t want to be responsible for all that stuff. Maybe we can get there one day, but you’d be breaking the first commandment if you even considered that possibility, you’ve got God there at the most fundamental cosmic level to tell you what’s wrong and right for you, I believe that directly contradicts the concept of taking responsibility.
I support a Neo-Pagan/Wiccan Joyce. I’ll make a website if I have to. There will be a petition. There will be memes. There will be drinking mead from hollow horns.
If Joyce is going to go full-tilt, that is the perfect direction. It makes for such an epic storyline and new characters are a must for this one.
If Joyce is indeed going to go “full-tilt” in rebellion against her parents, I’d say she’s far more likely to go atheist rather than choose another religion. Bear in mind that Willis is deriving much of her journey from his own. That doesn’t mean it’s anywhere near guaranteed that she’ll reject any and all religion–it’s Willis’s playground and he can do whatever he wishes–but I’d say it’s more likely than her going Wiccan or neo-pagan, interesting as that would be.
They seemed like nice people in this universe. They -are- nice people, as long as you’re not the target of their particular flavor of bigotry. That’s what makes it so infuriating.
Sorry, but you did ask, but here we go:
“Do to others as you would have them do to you” Luke 6:31
also
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. ” Luke 6:37
this is from the key teachings of Christ
(commonly failed by his followers, sorry)
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is an amusing bit of hypocrisy from a deity that would throw a fit if humanity treated Him the way He supposedly treats humanity.
also
“Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgement.” Jesus in John 7:24
It’s amazing how often these “key teachings” have other completely contradictory “key teachings”. With lines like these, all followers can’t help but fail half of them.
Never thought about it in those exact terms, but yeah, big words from an invisible sky wizard who never has to deal with consequences.
Kinda reminds me of all the other invisible sky wizards other people have written about. You know, the ones who are always changing their minds and sending their minions to kill the others’ minions.
There’s been so much good stuff lately. Willis is a juggler, multicolored eggs flung from his hands, travelling in beautiful colorful arcs. In mid-air cracks appear in a yellow egg, and you can’t believe your eyes, then you hear a fretful cheep as the tip of a beak pokes from the blue. A huge pair of wings unfold from the green and as your eyes boggle at the wonder unfolding a huge bird of paradise springs from the orange one, curved majestically and adrift.
Then the juggler punches you right in the face, stomps on your heart and drinks your tears.
It’s kind of a chicken or the egg issue. Take the Crusades. You could say they were motivated by religion or you could say it’s awfully convenient that said wars would provide landless nobles with land and wealth by killing people who looked different. Likewise, those in power do love to use religion to promote conformity but history also shows the reverse can be true.
At any rate, this is just warmup. They did not have to come to terms yet with Ethan being gay (now that’s a mixed bag of blessings if any: bodes good for a lack of premarital hankypanky and bad for a lack of postmarital hankypanky or whatever). And if we ever get to the “your boyfriend is making out with your brother” stage, the mouse-over text might prove truly prophetic.
Can’t be surprised about this. They didn’t let Joyce ride her bike around the block until she was 16. They totally controlled her schooling and picked who she could interact with.
The only surprise is that they let her go to a non-Bible college. It’s not like she needs enough education for a career, just enough to follow a home school curriculum with her children. College was not supposed to change her, just confirm her in her beliefs.
I know we all want to see her succeed, but generally the first time someone tries to rebel against their parents in a confrontation the kid is not the one who has the positive outcome.
That said, because there are more people there who are going to side with the non-crazy religious side, there is a better chance for success.
Wait, I had to read that a few times for it to click.
“We don’t want a repeat of this morning, do we?”
A) as if they didn’t totally spearhead the incident in the morning.
B) as if merely being in their presence while waiting to meet Joshua will be enough to incite another incident.
What was the incident in their head, I wonder? What precisely do they think made this morning uncomfortable for Joyce?
they are called fundies because they read the bible literally.
its a pretty strange thing that a book writed in a figurative way to teach moral to the common jew people of thousands of years ago , its now readed literally by first world educated people . Don´t get me wrong i deeply respect christianity, but reading the bible straight up literal, just doesn´t make sense to me
My sister does this. She believes every miracle occurred, the flood happened, and that there are no other books in the Bible. She goes to church every week. She believes HIV is god’s punishment toward the gays for their sins.
And now she has the gall to tell me that she doesn’t believe in religion.>P
Because there are a lot of entitled pricks here that are mad at entire groups, just because one person in that group read their secret diary while they were growing up.
In all seriousness, though, I don’t really get it either, but I was brought up to be nice to others, so idk. Best guess on my part, is that it’s not that it only happens here, but we are the loudest about it.
Actually, Intie, it is a religion thing, not a US thing. Look back at European history. Romans persecuting the early Christians; Luther breaking away from the Catholic Church; Henry VIII setting up the Anglican Church; Huguenots; Calvinists; the Spanish Inquisition; and of course just about everybody hating on the Jews. When America was founded (by Europeans) all that hate and distrust of others just got transplanted is all.
yeah, but we tend to forget that USA founders were religious extremist, escaping europe because it was too pagan!! everybody forget that those people were saved by indians. which later were killed and drive off their lands. Later they remembered that day as “the day gods save us” instead of having any regret of killing the folk that save them.
Its true that religion hate come way back in the europe history, but nonetheless , USA its a very particular religious country.
While everyone does forget that the pilgrims were extremists, they didn’t have any more influence on the founding of America than the settlers at Jamestown.
Is your question why so many Americans are religious (in which, the answer is strong community ties and a direct relationship with God) or why so many religious Americans are assholes? I got nothing on that, other than most people are naturally so and take a lot of dedicated effort to be otherwise.
The friendship we’re trying to have is…not a friendship you’ll decide on! We…by ourselves…choose our friendship from the infinite universe! We will fight through it. We will fight through it and protect our friendship! We’ll show you we can do it!
I kid you not, it’s not that far from a conversation I had at my college campus. Of course, my wife came from a fundamentalist family she lapsed from and did a double take when she found out I was religious (only acted like a stereotypical Star Wars geek) and my church marched with gay rights groups.
It was like we were from the anti-matter universe of Qward.
Carol: “Come on, Joyce. Let’s get out of here. Do we want a repeat of this morning? I mean, you know I’m physically incapable of not being a confrontative bigoted asshat.”
Dorothy: “Look, Mrs. Brown, please, we’re just passing through.”
Joyce’s mom and dad went to school in… the 70s? And this is a public university in Indiana, not some bible college? How on earth is she misremembering her college years so badly?
If the Dumbing of Age universe is set as now (circa 2010) then it’s more likely that Joyce’s parents went to school in the middle ’80s or early ’90s. Going to school even as late as 1979 would mean they were born in the mid-1950s; and assuming Joyce to be a normal-aged college freshman that would mean she (Joyce) would have been born sometime around 1992. It’s not unheard of for a woman in her late 30s to still be having children, but that would make them to be around 55 now – and they certainly don’t appear to be that old.
That’s right, Joyce…go ahead and openly rebel. Even though mommy will be going home in a day or two and you will once again be free to do what you want.
And coming into the bell lap the Brown’s have started to cut into Blaine’s big lead. Do they have what it takes to catch him. The crowd’s on it’s feet…
I think that Joyce’s parents suffer from a peculiar form of self-blindness that my grandmother had. She was a hateful, domineering, vicious bongo, but if you recorded her being that way, she would be unable to identify the evil woman on the screen. She thought that she was a kind and loving person.
Can the Browns recognize themselves if someone whips out a smartphone and starts recording(for legal purposes. Look at the look of fear on Dorothy’s face.)
I feel like the entirety of this story arc has been building up to that fiercely assured panel of Joyce finally standing up for what she believes. I love it.
I find it so weird that Dorothy is usually in the defensive position about being an atheist whereas being any kind of Christian is the preferable norm. I feel it should be the other way around, but maybe I’m just being European. =/
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 1d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
wilbur, savvy enough to know he's in a comic strip but still not a great actor, awkwardly lifts a muffin up into frame so that we, the audience, understand that he has a muffin right now, which is very important narratively, but he's not really selling it well as an organic, human action
confirming that the reason there's been no Galaxy Version female characters in Blokees until now is that they felt they needed to make Round Lady Thighs For Ladies
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 9h
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 1d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 11d
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OH SNAP HERE WE GO
I can’t believe her mother!
I can’t believe it’s not mother!
Same great taste, but half the calories and only costs a nickel.
Bran Flakes?
I would imagine THAT mother tasting bitter, unwashed and obviously uneaten (oral is sodomy too!), unlike the young one, who is sweet & fresh and wants to know what the other girlies know!
It’s good for your FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE
You heard him, “FACE”.
I love Mad Men references – so subtle, yet so supple.
Hah!
If you think it’s mother, but it’s not, it’s . . .
“We secretly switched their mother with an asshole. Let’s see if anyone notices…”
I did! I noticed!
Perfect character.
Perfect avatar would be the scene where he’s going “Ooo, Roy, pick me!” but it still works!
But if your dad doesn’t have a beard, you’ve got *two* moms …
?-|
You sir, know what its about
For a nickle?
I can totally believe it’s not Mother. There’s no baseball cap-wearing kid with a baseball bat. (yet)
It’s one thing to denounce someone’s world view, but another to denounce one because of their world view, in their face. In short she’s #2 on current worst parent list, beating Ethan’s mom.
#1 is Amber’s dad I hope.
There are a lot of ties in the DoA Worst parent contest.
None surpass Blaine in the field of being awful.
Blaine is too strong for the ‘Worst Parent’ league, he’s actually competing at the ‘Worst Human Being’ level. He’s hoping to graduate to the ‘Worst Living Living Being’ league next fall.
Wow, ants and mosquitos are going to have some competition.
Nah, the ants are kinda weak this year. I’m rooting for the yellow-jackets. Betcha Blaine is first runner-up though.
He’s hoping to get out of the minors and into the big leagues, huh?
I see what you did there, Kernanator.
You do? Because I don’t. Unless you’re talking about the fact I made a baseball reference, in which case, I see what I did too.
Oops! I was thinking of Amber as still being a minor — but she’s almost certainly not. (Though some 1st semester college students are 17…)
Love the Amanda gravitar!
But I feel like there should be questions for you…
I just realized where your gravatar is from!
you should do Grace’s full squirrel form sometime.
seeing as there are a couple frames of that which
rival Schrodinger from Shine Heaven Now for Cutest Thing Ever
Where he shall remain until death.
I almost asked who was #1. Brain fart. (Or should that be Blaine fart?)
Always remember, no matter how evil the person, they all at one point in their lives, likely shit in the woods. All evil people poop.
Hitler pooped. OMG, POOPING IS EVIL!
Not even Carol can deny pooping! Let she who is without poop cast the first … turd?
Flinging poop! I guess we are related to monkeys after all!
Words worth remembering.
And all the presidents pee’ed. Peeing is a sign of greatness!
…
…
pssssss
I still have to go with Danny’s parents, Ethan’s mom, and Blaine as tied for first. It’s one thing to be a shitty person, but at least Joyce’s mom still likes Joyce.
For now at least. We’ll see how much they like each other tomorrow
Speaking as a Southerner, I can. Shit’s too common if you ask me.
Asshole is a language every group speaks, I’ve noticed.
Indeed. How does she have the nerve to charge more than a nickel?
uh here we go now here we go now here we go now
*cue jazz music*
click click click click click click
Athiests Christians Athiest Christians Athiests YEAH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBcWt407iTE
*Pagans* and christians!
Snap, Crackle, and POP!
Oh. OH! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo SNAP!
It’s about to get real.
Yeahhhhh Go Joyce!
Has anyone mentioned how cute Joyce is when she’s angry?
So… have you seen Joyce in Universe Prime?
Oh yeah! Another cross-universe constant. : )
She was also a first water Kill em all and let God sort em out type when pissed off.
There are downsides to being like that, of course…but that comes later. At the moment, the important thing is that Joyce has a hard core under that pink fluffy bunny exterior that only shows when she’s really got her back to the wall. She showed it with Ryan awhile ago, and I do believe she’s about to show it again, though hopefully with slightly less broken glass and face-cutting.
My biggest worry is how much it will cost her…I’m sure Chick-Fil-A is hiring…but will they pay enough to get her through college alone?
Couldn’t you see Billie asking her parents to pay Joyce’s tuition? The gal who puts down her folks for subbing money for love and time spent would be the perfect person to try to buy approval by helping Joyce…
That’s what I like about Joyce. She has a fierce, indomitable
innocence. She’s decent and kind and forgiving, but not a
pushover. Her parents should ask her to lead their Bible
study — they might learn a few things.
YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
Go back to the shadow!
See, I was immediately thinking Isildur: http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9633/elrondisildurring.jpg
Ah, here we go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-qJKKz_Go
1859. Baden Powell is holding the final proofs of Darwin’s “The Origin of Species” above a volcano, before they can go to the publisher.
Richard Owen: “Cast it into the fire! Destroy it!”
Baden Powell: “…No.”
IF THERE’S A HOLE, IT IS A MAN’S JOB TO TRUST INTO IT!
Joe? That you?
No, that would be Ryoma Nagare.
Either Joe, Joe’s father or Ethan’s mother.
No. It says to TRUST into it. Someone trusting in a hole would be someone who jumps into a manhole and hopes that they don’t break their neck in the dark.
Damn it, here’s the quote again: IF THERE IS A HOLE, IT IS A MAN’S JOB TO THRUST INTO IT- Ryoma Nagare.
Are you asking each of us to fist someone? In that case go fist yourself you lewd person you….
Wait, what?
Alright, shit’s going down. Place your bets people!
I got $20 someone gets their religion hurt!
I give you negative odds on that.
OW MY RELIGION
Money’s on Joyce actually standing up for Dorothy. Takers?
Givers!
I third the “Joyce sticks up for Dorothy” idea.
Now they just have to kiss, and this’ll be utterly drama-fied.
Totally what I was going to say. Won’t that get poor Ethan confused.
I wager your indulgence that Joyce lays the mother of all theological smackdowns on her parents.
This is my guess too. But I think this is only the spark for the fire :-0
THE FIRE RISES
I place $10 on Ethan being outed, and $20 on Dorothy’s parents sticking up for her. Also the $1 longshot of death by Dina. The clever girl.
Dina’s the clever girl? Maybe she’s a fraction of Clara and one the the DOA cast is this world’s Doctor???
Also, is this the strip with the most posts to date since DoA Started? I was going back and reading the Amazi-Girl tagged ones and noticed Walky use to get around 100-200 on a heavy day, now that’s a light day when everyone’s hung over till noon.
Except me. Cause I don’t drink. Cause I’m too scary sober (or so I was told in college the one time I did want to get drunk and simply pass out due to crap going on).
I’m pretty sure this one holds the record. It cleared 900 in the first 24 hours, and is over 1000 now.
The one where Amber decked Blaine has more comments now, too, but of course has been up longer.
First she lectures her parents on tolerance, then she eventually leads into Ethan’s sexuality and her own growing libido. Joshua eventually comes and helps argue Joyce’s point by making out with Ethan.
This! C’mon, Willis! We all want this!
Ethan is her example of how tolerance can help bring people to God, so this sounds plausible. This promises to get very interesting if Joshua speaks up.
Sounds plausible that she will bring in Ethan
Oh no, it’s too late! Joyce has been corrupted by college life! She’s developing a spine!
Her spine is kinda like a tumor then!
More like a heart growing 3 sizes
The swelling is getting out of control! Soon she’ll be a… Free Thinker.
Joshua might be experiencing some swelling, too. I’m just saying…
She might wana get that checked out.
Eh, it worked out for Secretariat.
Clearly Ethan missed spine class.
Too busy staring at the boys.
aka Butts class.
You can get that disease by spending too much time there. What’s it called? Ah, Tushitis.
You’ve clearly forgotten about Butts Disease…
*sigh*
Jeph Jacques would be very disappointed.
He’s thinking about majoring in it.
But will it help him get a job later on?
I’m sure he’ll be getting many jobs.
Then it’s a HANDY major.
Also helps with orating.
That’s why I questioned (back sometime or another) the title of this comic. Yeah, I got the pun … coming of age/dumbing of age. But it looks to me like Joyce, if not actually getting smarter, is at least having her mind expanded which is going to lead to more critical thinking…….
Yeah, the title’s kinda my least favorite part of this comic. It doesn’t quite convey the cleverness and heart of the comic itself. But oh well
Well… most of the younger people in this comic seem to have their heads on a lot straighter than most of the (aged) parents we’re seeing. Maybe that’s what that means…
OH GOD SOMEONE’S GONNA DIE.
as clearly indicated by the DRAMATIC SHADING. And the “MURDER/SUICIDE” caption. would the alt text lie to us?
They’re all gonna blow up.
What? It’s the best I could do.
I’m not questioning you. Live with integrity–no regrets!
They are near a body of water, and there are a lot of familiar relations about…though no brothers. Hm.
You’re also hitting several Kamen Rider tropes with all those circumstances.
That’d I’d pay a nickel to see; one of the cast a Kamen Rider.
It would seem King Roland is the new ‘Alt Text’…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svlohGzbPn4
Heck, let’s pull a Tomino. KILL’EM ALL!
And then Dumbing of Age became…Space Runaway Ideon.
But if ZZ Gundam vs Gigantis is canon, that means that the Universal Century is the rebooted version of the Ideon universe.
Well duh, look at those eyes. Sure, they’re not red, but glowing eyes of that caliber only happen when you’ve got a pissed-off Kryptonian.
THE BIGGEST FROWN =C
ho, fuck
Clearly Mike needs to come in and show you a REAL frown.
He’s got more of a sneer.
FINALLY!
YES.
GUNDAM FIGHT! READY? GOOOOOOOOO!!!!
And then Joyce fires a “Sekiha Tenkyoken”!
Followed up with the Burger King attack aka Sekiha Love Love Tenkyoken.
Decency? Looks like her manners disappeared with that years ago.
+1
Joyce has leveled up.
Her Eye beauty has increased by 3
Her eyebrow boobs have arched by 2
Yotomoe, does every arching thing reminds you of boobs?
Aizat, Have you ever looked at her shirt?
Can’t look, Monkey will eat me.
Indeed.
Maybe the Dexter & Monkey Master bed was a bad idea.
The boob eyes compel you.
You would rather watch boob eyes than move eyes.
What even ARE eyebrow boobs
What eyebrows use to nurse their eyebrow babies, obviously.
Ah, how could I be so foolish.
Loving Joyce’s eyes in the last panel. Of course, a basic knowledge of physics and biology tells me that she should be blind… But dammitall, she’s a like a female Sinatra.
She happened to look RIGHT into a light source at that exact moment.
She is a light source. Lasers are about to come shooting out of those baby blues.
She converted from Christianity to Supermanity.
No matter what happens going forward in this comic, this is my new headcanon.
The lake they went to a couple weeks ago was the same one Dave, Mike, and Roger went to. Billie’s going to grow a tentacle, and Dorothy has a third eye in her palm now.
Dude, she has no pupils. Ruth doesn’t, either. And pretty much everyone else seems to have pupils but no irises. This is what makes you start asking questions about eyesight?
No, you see, the sheer strain that Joyce put herself under to directly defy her parents caused her retinas to tear.
All right!
In my day, people with your kind of values kept their mouths shut Carol.
No they didn’t. They were actually the vocal majority.
SHHHHH!!
In my day people’s value’s sucked so it didn’t matter…
Are you from some far-off, glorious future?
I can only hope.
A future that is also in the past. It’s a reverse Star Wars kind of thing.
Back in my day, we respect other people’s belief(unless that belief involved human sacrifice and summoning the Dark One)
Stop oppressing my people !
Yeah, Aizat, this is a free country.
the “NO” heard ’round the World
Joyce, how can you look scary and adorable at the same time this is uncanny.
I cannot can this. I can’t even bottle it.
I’m having a hard time cartoning it.
Paper or plastic?
Joyce is finally learning that loving thy neighbor means doing so in spite of your differences. Jesus loved everyone.
You know, divine or no, he was a pretty cool guy with a simple core message.
Amen. It’s not the right of any person to pass such judgement on someone’s sanity.because if their lifestyle.choices.
Jesus didn’t need to be the son of God to be totally friggin’ awesome.
Jesus: “bongoes and Romans be trippin’, yo. Quit illin’ on each other so much and respect yo brothas and sistas. Word.”
Essentially, yeah, pretty much. More “thee” and “thou” and “yea, verily”, but pretty much what you said.
I would have thought it’d be in Aramaic or Greek instead of 17th century English.
Little known fact : Yeshua ben Miriam LOVED THE HELL out of the Lee/Kirby “Thor”.
Avengers: The Best Movie Jesus has Ever Seen
I mean, he only saw three, but the point still stands.
Well, you don”t say…
My grandfather, a self called “Atheistic Christan”, likes to say suggesting Jesus was a God/responded to God is an offense to him. It is way more impressive to be just that awesome and progressive without a high divinity backing you up.
While your grandfather had some antecedents like Jefferson. I think Jesus was pretty clear he believed in God. He just had the novel idea God wasn’t an asshole.
And I think, if Willis has thought it through, that this is what he is going to have Joyce tell her mother now that she has gone to bat for Dorothy.
And I think we can ASSUME Willis has thought it through.
He’s usually a week or two ahead on the comics… they just go into the buffer and get posted automagically by the website.
“Fate has already been written upon your stars, child…”
A week or two? The buffer watch over on the left is up to December 6th as I type this. And it keeps growing.
I think about that every time Joyce (in the past) or her parents or anybody really spout off something judgmental, condescending, or rude about the religion of another person! It’s like, in the moment, they are seriously failing at their own religion so they doubly don’t have the right to criticize somebody else for theirs (or lack thereof).
I dunno, if there’s one group of people the historical Jesus would have hated (other than the temple priests and the Romans), it would definitely be atheists. I’m pretty sure that denying the existence of god could get you stoned to death in those days (and I don’t mean a marijuana overdose).
As a Jew born and raised, Jesus would have been taught that the Gentiles were exactly that (denying God’s existence, they had their own gods). He actually focused a lot of his time and effort on the Gentiles, who in many ways were easier to convert than the Jews themselves.
Actually, at the time the Gentiles probably would have thought the God of the Hebrews existed, they just didn’t think he was great enough to worship. Religious conflicts of the ancient world were less “my god is real and yours isn’t” and more “my god could beat up your god”.
Also, a lot of things could get you stoned back then. Jesus helped with that once, can’t see why he wouldn’t do so again.
Depends on the religion, I think. The Greeks and Romans were generally pretty inclusive. They didn’t want to risk offending someone who could screw them over later, so they pretty much said “Oh, you’ve got a god? Cool, how about we worship them too?” Of course, that kinda didn’t apply so much when the response was “Sure, so long as you tell all your other gods to fuck off.”
Also, Jesus didn’t really spend that much time and effort on the Gentiles. He’d help them out when they came to him, but not before he was all like “Yeah, I’m not really here to help you guys.” The Gentiles weren’t really a major concern until after death, resurrection, and ascension; by which point the Jews had made it pretty clear they didn’t particularly like him.
It’s not so much that the Romans were being tolerant and inclusive and inoffensive as just that they were polytheist anyway. When you’ve already got a dozen major gods and scores of minor ones, what’s a few more? Obviously the conquered people’s gods are inferior to the Roman gods – or the Romans wouldn’t have been able to conquer their people – but there’s no reason to believe that they aren’t equally real, or to prevent the conquered people from keeping their gods (which tends to keep them content)… so long as they accept the Roman ones as well.
Which is where the Jews, and later the Christians, ran into problems. They had one god who forbid them from accepting other gods, and while the Romans would’ve been okay with letting them continue to worship YHWH, they couldn’t tolerate the Jews refusing to accept the Roman gods… because, as with the later medieval Divine Right of Kings, the Roman gods were also the root of Roman secular authority. Denying the Roman gods denies the divinity of the Caesar and so the justification for his authority, which is not just blasphemy but rebellion.
“Jesus loved everyone.”
Unless you happened to be a fig tree without figs out of season.
Such a withering remark.
That tree had it coming. How DARE it not bloom for the son of man!
Joyce is a small totem poll of kung-fu action.
A totem Poll, to vote who is the best kung-fu totem.
Did she train under Keye Luke and Philip Ahn?
And who gets to vote in the totem Poll? The Totem Proles, of course.
Round 2
FIGHT.
And now for the perfect gif:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYklj74qRqsoZ9S___EaZWRh1hAf_xwAYSaQWPann–dhZQy7MCA
Just read the alt-text and choked on air.
GO JOYCE
GO JOYCE GO!
Go Joyce Racer, go Joyce Racer, go Joyce Racer gooooooooooooo!
Also, I feel my Joshua gravatar is especially appropriate right now.
JOYCE FOR THE WIN!
Wow. Fundies will be fundies, but these two are a special kind of crazy.
Or maybe I’m just too used to living in a state that’s forty-some percent non-religious (albeit only twenty-some percent irreligious, because people are obstinate and tribalist).
As a guy in Georgia lemme say…these people are tame. I mean…they’re jerks. But they haven’t lit her on fire yet.
Yet.
My only experience with Georgia was when I had to sleep in the Atlanta airport overnight (long story), so I’ll defer to your judgement, Yotomoe.
Yeah, Hartsfield/Jackson is a pansie’s airport. Try an evening in Memphis, TN airport, then repost :-p
Fundies… Fing undies… is there a connection.
Nice avatar — looks like Amanda from El Goonish Shive?
Complete with the green screen!
Yeah, there are some things with Joyce and her family that I feel like I’ve seen from my upbringing.
Then there are other things that make it abundantly clear that there’s just a massive difference when a viewpoint becomes the majority. Think my highschool had 5 Mormons out of over 1000 students, and a lot of the “Christian Majority” has never been to church. On a basic level you do need to be able to get along with everybody once you step out of church and get enveloped by a society that doesn’t agree with your religious opinions.
“The decency to keep it to yourselves” is a concept completely foreign to me, I suspect in part because if it were to be applied we would be the ones expected to stay silent about our views. That would sit poorly with us on multiple levels.
Wonder if it would mellow the Browns out or extremitize them if they had to live in a place that wasn’t predominately Christian for a while? I’m sure there are places where they’d be expected to have the decency to keep it to themselves. Seems like that could be an empathy enhancer or it could just reinforce their sense that non-agreeing views shouldn’t be allowed to spread through word of mouth.
Extremitize, probably. I’m guessing they consider Christianity a threatened and persecuted minority that somehow simultaneously should be the law of the land.
Of course they do. That’s what fundies teach each other and their kids. I went to a Lutheran high school (which is to say, a lot milder than the Browns) and we got a pretty good dose of the persecution crap. Luckily, they didn’t try to extend morality into politics all that much, but still.
I never understood why christians in America feel threatened they pretty run the place already.
For the same reason the nobility feel threatened whenever commoners start to gain power.
May I just say that I find it hard to relate to any of this, having been born and raised in a country with an overwhelming Catholic majority; nearly everyone is an atheist around here O_o
Joyce is not taking her mothers shit anymore.
Joyce is now looking for a full-time job to pay for tuition.
Joshua told her to pick her battles, well she chose correctly.
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
You have chosen…wisely.
The force is with her.
She is…The One!
She is the One who put her leg behind her head.
Aha!
Nothing comes between Joyce and her Dorothy. Not even Joyce’s mom.
Not in this life, not in this Dumbiverse, they’ll have to go through me.
Yeah. Sharing Dotty with Walky is enough compromise. No more.
You win… you just won this comment section.
Getting rid of Walky will be easy all you need is a few bags of Nachitos, a bucket of McNuggets and a rocket.
Or just call Mike. Pretty sure he’d do it for free.
No Carol! They’ll just find you again elsewhere!
Yes angry face! Go character development!
And Joshua plotting something. I wonder what that is.
…what makes you say that?
Well, he asked to meet, these guys come by, and he is not there yet himself. By Comics law, something is afoot.
The same should be said about her old best friend, though I’m not sure if that reveal will occur in the immediate future.
He’s gonna come out as gay.
What, so Joshua went out, found Dorothy, and…hm, okay, actually. We’ll see.
lol this literally never happens
FUCK YOU MOM AND DAD, GOD IS DEAD
I’M A FUKKIN TEENAGE REBEL
I’M HARD as SHIT
*gang signs*
I would love to see what Joyce thinks constitutes a gang sign.
She’d probably do the Vulcan salute.
And Howard fell in love instantly.
And then she tells him he, as a redhead, has no soul.
Calm down, L. Have a cake or something.
YOU’RE NOT MY REAL MOM
I’m not anybody’s mom. AND WHY ARE WE YELLING?
BECAUSE THERE IS NO MORE SINCERE FORM OF WRITING THAN CAPITAL LETTERS.
JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL!
Ugh. I’ve gotten so used to hearing shit like that in my real life, for, let’s say, queer reasons. Even though Joyce’s awful, awful mother is being a bigot about religion, instead, just reading it on a webcomic page was enough to cause an instant flinch and flare of anger.
[hugs] I’m sorry you have to hear BS like that. And I’m sorry you felt reverberations from the strip. I’m atheist and bi, but I’ve fortunately not actually run into anything like that so far. Still, it makes me happy that Joyce isn’t backing down.
“We better stock up on the holy water and call the priest hunny, it looks like our special double prayer didn’t exorcise the athiest demons from our widdle girl”.
We may need to rebaptize her. In fact we may just need to revirgin her. We know she’s already a virgin, but clearly she’s not virgin enough.
Only a thurough baptism in extra vergin olive oil can make her extra virgin.
The real problem is find REAL extra-virgin olive oil since many so-called EVOOs are way less than 100% real EVOO in them.
We’ll need olive oil, virgin olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, olive oil with a questionable past…
…slutty olive oil…
I think this olive oil of yours is of questionable content.
Oh, that’s… that’s Susan.
You can’t have her.
Well if they can extra virgin olive oil, there must be some trick to it.
Chasaty belt
And then they’ll all have to pray the icky Catholicism away.
Willis, I gotta ask but would Carol react anywhere near as harshly to Dotty if she was a Catholic/Mormon/SDA/any other religion?
Probably. Once your mind is as set as Carol’s is, there are no shades of grey. There is only black and white; ‘us’ versus ‘them’; “true God” versus “false God”.
Although belief in at least some kind of higher power, even an incorrect (to Carol’s mind) god, may not be *quite* as bad as no belief in any god.
You would be surprised. I’ve met people from similar crazy sects as Joyce’s. They were vaguely capable of semi-polite discourse with my atheist friends. When they heard I was Catholic though… You’d think I just told them I planned on coming into their home in the middle of the night and eating their children… hell that probably wouldn’t be too far off in their heads…
Whaaaaaaat.
Some people really, really hate Catholics.
Like… the atheists they would shout at, but they were still shouting their opinions. I was just… struck by hatred and bile and unwelcomeness…
This seems backwards somehow. Like discovering that what you thought was butter was actually margarine, or vice-versa.
I figure it’s because it makes them question their motives: did they really break away from Rome because of all the corruption, or was it just a power grab?
Plus, a lot of the things that people think Catholics believe are complete nonsense.
What, are crucifixes really that terrible?
Just throwing in my two cents, there was a time I was in Georgia with family looking for a Catholic church to go to mass. One response we got, with the most hateful look in the world was “No, we’re all Christians here.”
Reading the comments on this comic in general, I’m suddenly way more grateful for living in the Northeast U.S
I’m sure Willis could explain it better than I could, but… hey… whatever
Would she? They know Ethan is Jewish, don’t they?
Something like, Ethan, Agatha, Amber, Asma, (and so on with the A’s…) have erred in trying to know God, but Dorothy has committed the unpardonable sin of actively rejecting ‘im.
…looking at this post sixteen hours on, I’m wondering why my mind went to Amber before the Walkertons… probably the A.
I would love to see her meet an Asatru. “Your god died on a tree, my god has a hammer.”
I’m trying to find out if canon law allows you to request a formal excommunication without having to provoke them into it, like stealing a bunch of consecrated host wafers and serving them with french onion dip at your next pot luck. More like, you know Monsignior I’m just not feeling it, I think a clean break would be the best thing. Very civil of course, no hard feelings.
Man, being an Atheist demon would really require some mental gymnastics, wouldn’t it? =P
I don’t know, since God doesn’t believe anyone created Him, that means that God is an atheist, so therefore it is perfectly logical for demons to also not believe in a creator.
Yes, but he believes in himself, so I think he’s technically religious.
Although I do feel that demons would be atheists just to annoy him. God works under Discworld rules, right?
How do we know God doesn’t think someone created Him? Has anyone ever asked the guy? I mean, He never talked about it, but wouldn’t it be weird for a scientist to start discussing theology with the contents of a Petri dish?
Reminds me of a line from one of Pratchett’s Discworld novels, about witches not believing in the gods. “They deal with them, of course, but they know them too well to believe in them. It would be like believing in the postman.”
Discworld gods (and they are legion) have powers, but only so long as people believe in them and then in direct proportion to the number of their believers. In fact, that’s the basis of Sir Pterry’s novel, “Small Gods”.
Discworld rocks!
Correct.
My faves are Soul Music and The Last Hero. Which are oddly appropriate to this thread.
I have a hard-cover copy of “The Last Hero”, inscribed and signed by both Sir Pterry and Paul Kidby.
I love all of the Death stuff. And Rincewind, of course, but it’s a different sort of affection.
I’m pretty sure most fundies of Joyce’s parent’s flavor don’t consider Catholics to be Christians.
Whoops, this already got covered in the thread above. Appologies for not refreshing early and often.
Well, Carol, can YOU have the decency to accept other people’s values and acknowledge them for who they are as people rather than what they believe?
She can’t be assed to consider other people as people. Not when they’re Hethaaaans
Magic 8 ball says… No.
It shouldn’t be about sides. When you worry more about sides than what the good Lord taught you, you weren’t on the right side to begin with. Unless we’re talking about those darn
communistsatheists, with their souls full of maggots.Do maggots have maggot-souls that could enter a human soul, or are the maggots merely our own mind’s attempt to visually represent the state of their soul due to the shortcomings of our mortal eyes?
You’re asking the wrong guy.
+1
Blue Eyes, Take Warning.
Blue Eyes, White Dragon?
Blue Peeps, Whitey Dragon!
Atta girl, Joyce! Love and
tolerateaccept the fuck outta her.No, Alice. BEFRIEND the fuck out of her.
Shit, just fuck her and get it over with! XD
Nah. Dorothy/Walky is such a sweet pairing it doesn’t need les yay (which I’m normally up for) to spoil it.
Threesome solves everything. =P
(I agree with you, though)
Threesomes are just more distractions!
My prediction: Ruth comes out of nowhere and suplexes Carol.
That’d be awful.
…ly great
MOTHERFUCKER SUPLEXED CAROL!
If it’s anything like Sabin suplexing a train…then Ouch!
Great Teacher Ruth
What she deseves
JOYCE PAAAAAWWWWNNNNCCCHHHH?
Then Amber comes by to do a Shoryuken.
And this where the comic takes a dramatic genre shift and becomes about a rogue Joyce on the run, assisted by the heartbroken Amazi-Girl and dissatisfied loner Billie. Oh and Dina is there too… Because she’s Dina.
I just imagine they’re all running crying in the night and Dina is standing perfectly still but still zooming alongside them.
You never actually see Dina move. You just open a door and she’s behind it.
Ever see this video of a Sherlock Holmes game where they didn’t bother to give Watson any walking animations, so you just turn around and he’s there? Dina can do that.
I’m suddenly compelled to wonder if Dina is some sort of harmless relation to the Weeping Angels.
I imagine that this is when the story starts to explore what Dina really is. What was previously written off as a gag is now given a canon explanation involving some form of passive teleportation or multipresence. No matter where they Run, Dina is often already there. No matter where they turn, Dina is just around the corner. Standing there, her mind on other things. When approached about the subject she doesn’t seem to understand that there’s anything odd about her being here, when just an hour ago she was there and she didn’t board the plane with them.
WHOLY SHIT-SNACKS!!!
Wrong character, iddnit? Shouldn’t you be posting this as Pam?
YOU’RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!!!!!!!!
+10,000 internets
Oooooooh! Just like the gypsy woman said!!!!!!
Man, I’ve really gotta start going to her!
Eff Yeah Joyce! Eff Yeah!
HO SHIT SON IT’S GONN’ GO DOWN!
Shit’s gonna get real.
And it hit, like, 20 fans.
…I need a shower.
Fans? More like somebody popped it in a blender, put it on the highest possible setting, and purposely forgot to put the lid on.
Ewww
This is going to be awesome! I can hardly wait until…. Thursday or Friday to see what happens next, cause you just know Dave is gonna cut away to someone else for Tuesday’s comic!
(I’m kidding. I hope I’m wrong. Dear lord, I hope I’m wrong.)
As Raen pointed out yesterday, there’s no one to switch to, really. Pretty much everyone is already here…
…Er, well, not everyone. About half the cast. But still.
We still don’t know what Ruth’s planning to do with Faz.
Nor do we probably want to. But it is an option.
They’ve gone down to the beach and are using him as shark bait.
Hoo ha ha.
Freshwater sharks can swim up the Ohio River into Indiana.
The most awkward possible thing would be for Billie to walk in on Ruth, Dina, and a tied up Faz. If there is anything that could cause conflict/misunderstanding, that would do it.
I bet it just randomly switches to Mike doing nothing for four panels halfway through this scene.
Or Sarah. The fourth panel will consist of her glowering at us and telling us to go away so she can study.
That epic Asma story we’ve been waiting for is coming.
+1.
She might even… have her name mentioned in the strip!
This comic makes me so happy. I love reading it, I love watching these characters mature (albeit slowly) and I especially love watching Joyce.
Nobody puts Joycie in a corner.
Unless it’s in your fanfic…
Yeah, usually she’s between four of them.
Cuz, y’know, comic strip.
Sometimes we get borderless panels though.
Borderless panels still have corners, though. Unless they have a transparent background I guess.
Panel four: possibly the coolest face Joyce has made in sixteen years?
“You’re the little girl, Sal.”?
http://itswalky.com/d/20020627.html
I SAY THEE, NAY!!!
Looks like we got a Nay-sayer in the audience this afterno….er…night.
ZOMG YES I LOVE YOU!!!!!!
Thank you for defying my fears and growing as a person and being wonderful and defying your mother and this is my favorite thing yet!!!
I totally thought that this was going to end in tears.
Give it time.
….Read alt text. Happy feelings gone now….
What’d it say? (android won’t display it)
MURDER/SUICIDE!
That’s actually the main reason I have Firefox installed on my phone. The context menu for images (it comes up when you long press them) includes the hover text.
Well Carol, back in my day people weren’t all douchepaninis, but I guess we’re both disappointed.
So does this Joyce get as angry as Walkyverse Joyce.
Come on, Joyce. Time to be awesome.
Here’s to hoping that Joyce’s parents don’t immediately shut her down.
Eh, look at that face. Joyce is about to bring the rain. There will be no shutting her down. There will only be seeking shelter.
They say demons run when a good man goes to war.
One can only imagine what happens when a good WOMAN goes to war.
Everyone that doesn’t want their ass to be up between their ears runs.
Huh. I guess that would preclude Joyce’s parents then.
Wait what, I don’t get-
Ooooooh, because they have their heads up their asses? Is that what you were going for?
………sure, let’s go with that. It’s a bit cleaner than what I was thinking before.
Dammit, now I’m curious.
Since you’re most recent comment can’t be replied to, try something like this:
http://iamarg.com/2011/05/11/05112011/
It’s easy, you just have to reply to the last replyable comment in the thread.
Like this!
Aw yeah, Mrs. Brown is like “RECANT YOUR HERESY”
And Joyce is all “HERE I STAND MOTHERFUCKER”
And Mrs. Brown is like “How dare you imply I masturbate!”
To which Joyce’s ill-thought out reply is “Don’t change the subject you son of a bongo!”
And Mr. Brown is like “Carol is there something you haven’t told me?”
The parents’ dialogue has just been so unrealistic and exaggerated this whole weekend chapter. Just way too over-the-top for it to be appreciable.
Sometimes I wish folks would, like, read the testimonials from other people on the very pages they’re posting to before saying dumb stuff like this.
If you think this is over-the-top, count yourself fucking lucky.
Yeah, it’s really annoying to have one’s own life experiences described as “way too over-the-top for it to be appreciable”.
My life is pretty over-the-top. I need the director to pull in the reigns. Or at least get a better actor to play me.
I just need to stop doing my own stunts… Being dead was not much fun, but at least it didn’t hurt until I revived.
So, this is a case of Reality is Unrealistic?
Trust issues. People have them. And it’s the internet. Everything to be taken with salt.
If people can’t be bothered to read youtube descriptions before spouting their reactions, it’s unsurprising they’d also comment before doing so :/
But the irony abounds.
I was mostly referring to:
“Fuck her brains out. Fuck her as soon as you possibly can OVER and OVER and OVER” — Naomi
S’funny. Not haha-funny, but still. Most of this seems “under” the top from my personal experience. I know my personal situation was not “the norm”, but my personal experience also tells me that horrible or bad parents (or at least one such) ARE the norm, and those who are okay through to awesome are the exception.
I envy anyone who believes otherwise- and pity them for the shock they’ll experience should they develope a close relationship with someone who suffered some form of physical, mental or emotional abuse or neglect.
Someone’s never encountered a real bigot befoooore.
I’m just imagining searching for them on somekind of …asshole safari.
“And right over here we have the red spotted bigot!”
Alas, if only real bigots were so easy to spot.
I’m sure there’s a hentai doujin somewhere about going on an “asshole safari”.
“Now I’m gonna stick my finger up its bum… Crikey! That was a close one!”
Yeah. I know that feel. Sometimes, I’m not sure if never encountering such a bigot (at least knowingly) is a good thing or a bad thing.
For the record, David Willis has said that Joyce’s life is more autobiographical, so more likely than not this is the “autobiographical” part.
Granted, Joyce is making a journey in a few weeks that took Willis 10 years or so to go through, but no one has that time.
You. Have. Not. One. Tiny. Iota. Of. An. Idea.
Joyce is about to go Ash Rook on her mom.
Awwww yeah.
Going Ash Rook is good, but I’d far prefer she go Ash Williams.
Groovy.
I prefer Ash Ketchum.
Poké.
I prefer Ash Williams. Joyce with a chainsaw arm, now that’s an awesome image.
DoA fandom! I put the question to you: Which is more awesome?
A) Amber’s uppercut to her father’s jaw
OR
B) Joyce’s “NO.”
Joyce’s NO. Amber’s uppercut is all tied up with her emotional damage and the fear of becoming like her dad. This is Joyce making the choice to not be like her parents.
Seconded.
Joyce’s NO.
While I personally find a great deal of catharsis in Amber’s punch, largely because I’ve been reading about Amber from Shortpacked! as well, and believe me it’s well deserved, I still harbor concerns about her use of violence to solve her problems. Immensely satisfying, definitely deserved, but with caveats.
Joyce’s NO, however, I believe to be immediately followed up by verbal declarations of principle. It’s equally a step away from her parents, but probably going to be short and long-term a more healthy way of dealing with her family.
Not that there was a healthy way of dealing with Blaine. Besides therapy.
The best way of dealing with Blaine involves a band saw and several gallons of industrial solvent.
Well, let’s see.
Amber’s move was more dangerous than Joyce’s, but Amber had the element of surprise (and, as Amber puts it, a low centre of gravity).
I’ll give the point to Joyce, since her moment expresses both courage and growth as a person.
Ditto.
I remember one of the first times I stood up to my parents. Granted, it wasn’t in a scenario nearly as fraught with conflict as this one, but it was one hella scary moment anyway.
edited to add: “stood up to my parents and made it stick”.
Well yeah, there’s that. All the defiance in the world does you no good if it just slips back to the status quo.
Joyce.
I’d go with the No.
Well Joyce’s didn’t look like a “Haters gonna hate” strut. That said I’m not a fan of violence if it’s taken seriousely.
Hmm. Well, since both are immensely satisfying to observe, I’m going to say both of them.
Joyce’s no. Amber’s punch was difficult for her, but it came from internalized rage and hatred that had been building for years. Joyce, on the other hand, is rejecting a lifetime of indoctrination and beliefs that she’d held very closely until just recently, and is doing so to a person she still loves. That is really very hard.
Egads! Joyce is being scary. It’s cathartic to see her assert herself so.
Awwwwww yeah.
IT’S GO TIME.
NOW shit is about to go down…You know, I don’t get why some people would think Jesus, the man that taught to love your enemy would be OK with villainizing and shuning other people.besides this is America where suppose live freely together even if we have different beliefs
Villianizing and shuning other people because they think differently
America: Home of the free Christian Caucasian Males, and Home of the Brave everyone else.
Fun fact: New Zealand is apparently the freest country in the world.
Middle-Earth is there, it BETTER be free. Frodo didn’t fight for nothing!
Frodo didn’t do much fighting. He kinda just wandered across the world, got his finger bit off, then wandered back. Pretty much everyone else did the fighting for him.
He wandered like a BOSS! >:(
He was better in the book. That said, Sam is still a way better character.
He still did a lot more walking than fighting. And a lot less fighting than pretty much everyone else.
ATTA GIRL
I don’t remember Carol being this bonkers in the original ‘verse. Well, not as much about religion, at least. She was fixin’ for some grandkids, though…
Buuut…in any case… Joyce leveled up!
+1 Angerface
+2 Spine
I personally think this version of Mrs. Brown makes sense next to this one.
Same here. Hank too. They’re practically different people in the Dumbiverse.
Carol in the other universe was all out of fucks to give. She was encouraging premarital sex. This is a new Carol. Apparently one with no blackjack OR hookers.
Nay. This is the Carol who still has plenty of fucks to give. Unfortunately, nobody wants them. Or wants to give her any.
She’s got 5 kids. I feel as if she has given and recieved quite a number of Fucks.
Isn’t it 6? Joyce and 5 brothers?
The dropdown under “cast” in the header mentioned Joyce and three older brothers but not by name, and said nothing about younger siblings.
We’re talking about the other universe which with you need not concern yourself.
Well, it means she’s given five fucks. Or her husband has really bad aim when masterbating.
I thought we decided Ethan’s dad was the one in the closet?
GET’EM.
-gets popcorn and pulls up chair-
I find it strangely odd that as I got to read the very last panel, my playlist brought up one of the battle themes from Gurren Lagann. It just… went perfect with that face!
Which battle theme?
Roe Roe fight the powa?
Dew Dee Imposibow, See Dee Invisibow.
I’d go with the classics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-iROXtd6A or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOID9JXwkL8
Yessss.
HO SHIT
Ho Ho HOH SHIT GET AWAY FROM THAT POWER LINE RUDOLPH
In the words of the immortal Kevin Hart….”It’s about to go down”
ALRIGHTALRIGHTALRIGHT.
You gon’ learn today.l
And in the words of Hulk Hogan(and slightly altered to fit Joyce): “WHAT’CHA GONNA DO WHEN THE JOYSTER USES HER 24 INCH PYTHONS ON YOU?”
Is it bad that instead of reading “pythons”, I saw the word “penis”? I’m so sorry.
That depends, how good is your mind in handling the mental image of Joyce having a 24 inch penis?
My mind is steeped in hentai, so I’d say pretty good.
I think I’ve seen that one.
Multiple 24 inch penises.
Also, I can’t tell whether or not I’m hoping there will be friend of Dorothy puns when Joshua shows up. Along the lines of, “Mom, Dad, I have to know, which is worse: your daughter’s friendship with Dorothy, or that I’m a friend of Dorothy? Quick, Joyce, while they’re BSODing, grab your friends and run!” And then they all go out for ice cream while their parents fail forever at rebooting. /end “in my fanfic”
Took me a while to get that.
…wait, that’s…that’s an actual thing? Really?
Suddenly one specific episode of Arrested Development makes a lot more sense to me.
…does anyone even use that expression anymore?
I do! Though mostly in cases where it’s funnier or I can make deliciously awful puns (or am referencing My Fellow Americans).
I hear the sound of brass of concrete. And it pleases me.
Those eyes… in another world those eyes would’ve meant salvation, here they only mean one thing…
Someone is going to get glassed.
Back when I was an undergrad (80s), I don’t remember there being a parents’ weekend. Now all the parents helicopter in to visit their kids and interfere with their process of becoming adults. Or maybe I’m just a victim of the golden age syndrome. :p
Everyone’s psyched to see Joyce and her mom duke it out.
Next strip Carol’s just gonna be like “Oh, okay” and they’re all gonna chat.
Or, is slightly more likely, we’re gonna cut to another family.
Nah man, we need to see this one through. Joyce is going to stand her ground, point out where her mother is wrong, and then punch Amber’s dad in the face. Because seriously, fuck that guy.
I liked the Browns better when they were pretending to believe Joyce about her latest marriage proposal.
I literally gasped when I read this!
The line must be drawn HERE! This far, no further! And I will make them PAY for what they’ve done!
Is she going to break her little ships?
She’s sailing mine, for the moment.
My problem with this strip (yes I have a problem with it) is that it breaks the strips own canon to beat the dead horse of ‘Christians are/can be intolerant,’ a second time. In the strips where Joyce invited Dorothy to church, she specifically said that the reason her family went to non-denominational churches was to avoid intolerance of others, including atheists. I was really looking forward to seeing Joyce’s parents because of that moment, thinking I’d get to see normal, accepting Christian characters. Maybe Willis forgot about that?
Or perhaps they’re just hypocrites? Honestly, it really doesn’t surprise me anymore.
Hypocrisy has no limits.
I had a much longer answer about this on Tumblr that was too long ago to dig up, but having grown up in a church, Joyce’s parents actions here make perfect sense to me and are in completely alignment with the strip about Mary. Intrachurch politics are complicated, and suffice to say there’s a huge difference to some people between tolerating and accepting outsiders who come to your church and those who exist outside of it. One is being welcoming, the other is being on guard, and to many these are completely compatible things, depending on context.
This is reflected in Joyce’s dialog with Ethan in yesterday’s strip. If you’re going to church, you’re fine, no matter who or what you are, because you are submitting.
Oh, okay. That clarifies things, actually. I was a bit confused beforehand.
Mr. Willis, I’m sure you have been told this before, and I mean no offense, but you kinda grew up in a weird church man. And this is coming from someone who grew up in a pentacostal church. :\
I don’t know anyone who was so adamantly opposed to the possiblity of their children having non-believer friends. In fact, I kinda think it was encouraged in an “out reach” sort of way – you know, Jesus hanging out with the whores and sinners sorta thing.
So because it’s uncommon (in your opinion), there’s something wrong with reflecting that experience in your work.
That is where you were going with that observation, was it not?
Nah, I don’t think he’s going in that direction; simply expressing amazement. Lots of us readers -Christian or otherwise- were seriously weirded out to find just how much of the crazy religious crap in these strips comes from Willis’ actual life experience.
Hm, all right. I suppose it’s generally best to give others the benefit of the doubt.
Apologies if that’s not what you meant, razama.
Here is that longer answer.
Huzzah!
Joyce IS the normal accepting Christian, silly.
Anyone else read Joyce’s last line in Rorschach’s voice?
I did Now!
Yup.
Oh yeah!
Shock of impact ran along my arm. Jet of warmth spattered on chest, like hot faucet. It was Joyce who said “Mother” then, muffled under latex. It was Joyce who closed her eyes. It was Rorschach who opened them again.
Someone must now photoshop Rorschach’s face onto Joyce’s.
This campus is afraid of me. I’ve seen its true face.
Also, does that make Amazi-Girl Nite Owl?
It would work a lot better if Joyce was lookingdown.
Carol, i went to college with some people who believed as you do, but at least they had the decency not to act like assholes about it.
Holy hell… this thing has barely been up for an hour! And we get over 200 comments.
On another note… here comes the biggie.
Hasn’t he been dead since before Roomies! started?
Love thy neighbor shall be the whole of the law, bongo.
I’mma say it ’til I’m blue in the face. Stop ignoring the important parts of your holy book.
The problem is, everyone appears to decide for themselves what the “important parts” are.
So, instead of being the basis for morality, which wouldn’t be possible anyways due to the internal contradictions, the Bible ends up being a buffet line that people pick and choose from on the basis of their own preferences. This is a poor system of “morality”.
Well, that’s the best hover text idea yet.
Yes! Yes! Somebody pick up that phone because I fucking called it!
After all the giant, unappreciated scene-setting panels that didn’t leave a big impression, Willis decided to make one panel to rival all others… and make it one word with one face.
Though to be clear, I AM very proud of Joyce.
I must say i am very happy for this turn of events.
Go Joyce! Proceed to verbally and morally bongo-Slap your religiously bigoted parents.
If you think Joyce’s momma is upset about this, what do you think she’d be like if she had heard Naomi’s advice to Ethan?
http://www.dumbingofage.com/comics/2013-09-04-placate.png
The sh*t!!!! It just got real!!
The shit has ceased to be fictional!
OH SNAP MRS. BROWN you made Joyce angry. You won’t like Joyce when she’s angry.
*JOYCE SMASH*
*GASP*
Feels… feels like a theme song power up moment.
You mean like this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaJw6lqGFew
Yesssssssss!
If a fight would broke out, might I suggest using this as a background music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOID9JXwkL8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZKpByV5764
That is the only background music you ever need
Oh look its my childhood. -_-
Perfect grav for that comment.
IT. IS. ON.
Excellent. Joyce just cut the leash. Fantastic eyes.
The faces of both of her parents are really…they are…Hell, good job Mr. Willis: the faces of these two reflect their belief in the crap they are spewing very well.
I believe that all of us have prejudices. We think we are smarter, or our families are better off, or our religion is better ….but most of us aren’t rabid. At least I don’t think we are, for the most part.
We, most of us, go with the live and live idea of life. There are bigots out there for sure, but they are a minority. I hope.
I do not understand how people can actually think like this, and say these things to other people. I seen it, I’ve had it happen to me, I read about it….but I just don’t see how people like Joyce’s parents can live with themselves.
An entire life built around the acceptance and reverence of a book of fairy tales as literal, ultimate Truth, and the denial of reality can do that to people. Joyce is lucky she was exposed to the right influences in college to help her gain more insight to the world around her, that things are more than just the black and white morality her parents raised her around to believe. I’m sure Joshua was the same way, but he’s been keeping it under wraps the whole time for the sake of stability, which you can’t really fault him for.
Wouldn’t be surprised if John carried on believing.
Not Jordan though. Y’know, ‘cuz he’s Jordan.
A “book of fairy tales”? Psalm 137:9 “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” Isaiah 14:21 “Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.”
What kind of fairies are we talking of here exactly?
The good kind? Like, the fae folk and the sidhe and all those beautifully glorious beings that were monsters before Disney got their claws into ’em?
Actually, traditional fairies were pretty much complete monsters. There’s a reason fairy tales (in their original forms) were all so horrifying.
The unexpurgated original fairy tales were often that dark and violent. Rape (The prince finds Sleeping Beauty asleep and leaves her that way–but pregnant with twins), cannibalism (the wolf serves Snow White her grandmother’s flesh and blood before eating her–there is no helpful huntsman to save them) and mutilation (Cinderella’s stepmother forces her daughters to cut off parts of their own feet to fit the shoe) abound.
So the Bible is right up there with those, I’d say.
Uh– for ‘Snow White’ read ‘Little Red Riding Hood’.
For Snow White, you would have her having sex with the Dwarves. And then being murdered by her mother. Not step-mother.
Or she would be murdered by nearby villagers for being a soulless, fae whore.
Came across a book whose author researched the oldest versions of the tales.
The fictional kind? Like every other fairy tale? Violence has nothing to do with what constitutes a fairy tale; even Little Red Riding Hood had a violent ending.
In my country, there’s this cute little christmas gnome that lives in postcards and children shows and you’re supposed to leave out a bowl of porridge for him during christmas and it will make him very, very happy and add a bit of extra festive cheer to the whole neighborhood.
The myth originated from a diabolical little christmas gnome that would make the woman of the house give birth to lepers, make the soil infertile or impale your best cow on the roofbeam of the barn if you didn’t leave out a bowl of porridge for christmas.
….
FCK YE!
Sadly, I’ve known Christians like this, and yeah, they can get that stupid. The reason is pretty straightforward: Since they only interact with other Christians, outside of a token Jewish person, everything that is basically the devil.
Which of course wholly misses the point of Christ’s message. He hung out with hookers and Roman tax collectors. Murders, rapists, the possessed, he was there for them all, and his entire message of one of welcoming everyone in without judgment. Unfortunately, 2000+ years later, there’s a significant minority who have taken this to mean that they should exclude anyone who has come to Christ.
strangely there are christians without jesus, they are more “Dictator god” that the old testament pictures.
Joyce has been working on her war face.
It is positively nuclear.
My chest is tight because I’ve experienced what happens next.
Nicely done, Willis.
I’m having a hard time here, not with Joyce’s parents, but Dorothy’s. Man, guys, you can stop being nice when someone’s being an utter bongo. Tell the parents to piss off and invite Joyce for cookies or something to show you don’t blame her.
I completely get trying to defuse the situation and avoid a big scene even if you don’t think it’ll actually work, personally.
They’re trying, I think, to avoid causing problems for Joyce. (Which means the Keeners are being more considerate towards a stranger, knowing only that she’s their daughter’s friend, than the Browns are towards their own daughter.) If they avoid confrontation here, Joyce and Dorothy can resolve things between themselves after the parents have gone, and the Browns don’t even have to know about it. If they spark a confrontation, on the other hand, it’s possible that the Browns could pull Joyce out of school and ship her off to Christian college with Becky (where they’d probably end up dropping out, becoming drippie hifters, and eloping to Vermont to get married after Becky gets Joyce lesbian-pregnant), and then the girls won’t have a chance to maintain their friendship.
Joyce is too honest for that, though. She can’t tell her parents that she’ll stay away from Dorothy and then, after they leave, go apologize and continue hanging with Dorothy while hiding it from her parents. It might be the most practical solution, but it’s not acceptable to Joyce. So she’s chosen her battle.
If the Keeners won’t step up to support Joyce now that she’s declared war, I’ll judge them more harshly.
(And it occurs to me that there’s another way that Dorothy could find out that Joyce is conversion-dating a gay guy… Joyce could tell her. Because however afraid Joyce might be of losing Dorothy, she’s really bad at dishonesty.)
The Keeners absolutely should not step up and support Joyce, as that can do nothing but make the situation worse. No matter the context, this is a struggle between Joyce and her parents, and if Joyce is going to win this one, she needs to do it solo. If the Keeners stick a toe in this at all, Joyce’s whole argument, in her parents’ minds, will be tainted by the devil talking through the atheists. Joyce needs to win this as Joyce, in terms that Joyce would use, with convictions that Joyce would possess.
Agreed. To be frank, it isn’t the Keeners’ business to intervene in an argument between a child and parent, no matter how good their intentions are. Family problems are best settled within the family; if anything, I’d be hoping for Joshua to speak up in defense of his sister.
It is, however, entirely possible they might just disown her over it.
It’s on! It’s on now!
Whoa, this is like the opposite of colleges where i am from.
Who would be that scared of being exposed to people with different values from yours, if you were at all sure that your values were useful to you?
Because they aren’t sure. Religious fundamentalism is enabled by, and is a necessary result of, ignorance and the resistance to novel ideas.
I was trying to be rhetorical. . .
That actually occurred to me as I was writing it, but I wanted to post it anyway so I could feel smart.
/awful
That’s okay, I mean, you got the answer right and everything.
this its so awkard that its cute XD
Well, how can Jesus save you if you don’t listen to your elders conveying his words and lessons? Religion is carried by a chain of trust. Science is written by the prince of this world. Opening your eyes means not trusting your heart.
If his words would not be convincing, he would not be the master of lies.
I mean, you live in the U.S.A. You should understand the rationale of people who would rather have the economy go down in flames than let their own Romneycare be funded along with the rest of national expenses and take credit for it (not talking about the credit ceiling here).
If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away.
If you think religion is being “carried by a chain of trust”, you might want to familiarize yourself with the history of religions betraying the trust of their followers. The fact that all I have to say is “altar boy” and the examples of that trust being horribly betrayed immediately pop into your head shows you just how often and easily trusting religion blindly promotes problems and protects the guilty.
My heart just pumps blood, and I trust it to do that. It doesn’t think or feel, that’s my brain’s job. Not closing my eyes to reality means that I don’t get blindsided by things I don’t want to believe are true, but are true anyways.
So, eyes don’t cause sin, brains do. If you want to scoop out your own brains, that’s your problem. I prefer to believe in things for good reasons, not merely because I’m afraid of what boogeymen from old storybooks will do to me if I don’t believe.
If Jesus needs to explain himself through my elders, I don’t see why I should trust him. If science is the Devil’s work, then the Devil is our only chance to make this a finer world and I think that counts for more than any empty promises about some fantastical afterlife where everything’s fixed for us.
“If his words would not be convincing, he would not be the master of lies”
But he hasn’t convinced you, the other guy has. Which makes him the more convincing one, which makes him the liar, right?
Religion is an authority which does immense amount of good for a lot of people in terms of providing comfort, solace, and philosophical as well as emotional advice. Religious leaders, politicians, and psychopaths exploit these feelings of good will all the time and have done so throughout history.
Hate the bigots, don’t hate the message. Unless, of course, the bigots say the message is hate in which case punch them in the nuts.
What about if the message is “You can never be or do or make anything as good or important or beautiful as God, nor can anyone else, nor can you ever be fully responsible for your own life, and nothing that happens matter until after you die”? Cause that’s the sum of the comfort that religions provide as far as I understand, and I think a lot of us could stand to be a little more challenged.
That’s a pretty interesting summation of religion. The idea of God being perfect might argue you can never create anything as good as God, however the entire point of religion is to try to become more godly. Which means self-improvement. The second part is complete bullshit barring given that every single denomination I know teaches personal responsibility is the absolute MOST important part of religion. I’m Presbyterian and we believe in predestination but that doesn’t mean anything since we despite destiny existing, we still have to act to a godly manner. The final bit about “nothing important on this world” is bizarre because the most basic (and erroneous) interrpetation of the afterlife is, “This world is extremely important because it’s by our actions here we’re judged worthy of life after death.”
For me, religion provided me the comfort of an idea there’s a universal ORDER and that there’s a unification between nature, the divine, and man so that it all has a greater purpose. Also, that this purpose means that all those people I love will be able to eventually be reunited with me. I also learned a lot about morality from my religion–ironically, including, that being mean to gays sucked. I was prejudiced, ironically, before I became religious and finding God helped me realize what a colossal asshole I was being.
(Sorry gays of the world, I really am! You can have free cookiees whenever you drop by my house!)
To be fair, a lot of gays do suck.
Well, I’m going to have to go ahead and agree with you that there’s an inherent order in the universe. Call it God or an emergent tendency towards harmony, I don’t think that makes any difference. The question is what you do with this apparent higher power, beyond your understanding: Do you try to figure it out or do you bow down and worship it?
About the afterlife, I think you missed my point. You say (although you also say it’s erroneous?) that this world is important because it determines our place in the afterlife, which is exactly what my problem is: That this world matters more in its context with the afterlife than it matters to itself. Because of the belief that afterlife lasts forever, life becomes ultimately insignificant, and you get people who torture themselves their whole lives thinking no finite amounts of discomfort can be measured against the eternity of afterlife. Who’s to say what’s a moderate response to the promise of infinity?
Whereas if you treat this world like it’s the only thing that matters, it becomes infinitely precious which I think is a healthy attitude to have if you’re going to live in it.
As to the question of responsibility, you can look at today’s strip to see what I mean. Joyce thinks her strength comes from God, not herself, not her friends. You can teach people to act responsibly all day, but there’s always a greater responsibility, beyond what any person can live with, and as long as you’ve got a superior being you can always shift that responsibility to Him whenever it’s too much for you; you’re never forced to feel an uncomfortable level of responsibility. I mean, there’s some theories of quantum mechanics that suggest we’re constantly creating the world around us and the only thing that stops us all from taking conscious control of that process and becoming literal Gods is that we don’t want to be responsible for all that stuff. Maybe we can get there one day, but you’d be breaking the first commandment if you even considered that possibility, you’ve got God there at the most fundamental cosmic level to tell you what’s wrong and right for you, I believe that directly contradicts the concept of taking responsibility.
Huh. The colour scheme, combined with some other misunderstandings of mine, made me totally think this was a dream sequence.
Also, the last panel is the hottest thing I’ve seen this month.
Hotter than Dina tying up Faz? Also you have the same name as my brother.
I support a Neo-Pagan/Wiccan Joyce. I’ll make a website if I have to. There will be a petition. There will be memes. There will be drinking mead from hollow horns.
If Joyce is going to go full-tilt, that is the perfect direction. It makes for such an epic storyline and new characters are a must for this one.
If any of you write an essay supporting this, or draw a nice picture of it, I will paypal you $10.
send submissions to emperormathias@yahoo.com
If Joyce is indeed going to go “full-tilt” in rebellion against her parents, I’d say she’s far more likely to go atheist rather than choose another religion. Bear in mind that Willis is deriving much of her journey from his own. That doesn’t mean it’s anywhere near guaranteed that she’ll reject any and all religion–it’s Willis’s playground and he can do whatever he wishes–but I’d say it’s more likely than her going Wiccan or neo-pagan, interesting as that would be.
Now I look like a liar, but I swear this wasn’t here when I started posting. Heh.
Noone else touched this at all, and I just wanted to draw attention to that because it’s funny.
Also, Dominic Deegan avatar, lol.
Welp, nobody’s gonna live.
Maybe Saul actually, nobody could hate Saul.
Oooh! Oooh! I do!
“What’s that?” “Oh, it’s the sound of Joyce growing a spine.”
That sounds pretty gross, actually.
A good christian is not supposed to grow a spine. It would compete with the cross.
Sooo… exoskeleton?
no , more like sharks i guess…at least joyce´s mom
“And Boom goes the Dynamite.”
oh this is gonna be amazing trainwreck!
Geez. Joyce’s dad looks like he wants to punch Dorothy’s family in the everything.
It is interestingly mirrored by Joyce’s face in panel 4, actually.
And they seemed like such nice people in the Walkyverse :(.
They seemed like nice people in this universe. They -are- nice people, as long as you’re not the target of their particular flavor of bigotry. That’s what makes it so infuriating.
They seemed like crazy jerks in the Walkyverse.
Crazy, yes. Jerks, no.
I just got chills.
joyce just got pupils o.0
She just went Super Saiyan!
Please tell me Joyce is going to tell her mother off for acting very unchristian and cite chapter and verse to back that up. Please…
Can you cite it?
Sorry, but you did ask, but here we go:
“Do to others as you would have them do to you” Luke 6:31
also
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. ” Luke 6:37
this is from the key teachings of Christ
(commonly failed by his followers, sorry)
You are a clever and rightful person.
Take my +1 Internet.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is an amusing bit of hypocrisy from a deity that would throw a fit if humanity treated Him the way He supposedly treats humanity.
also
“Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgement.” Jesus in John 7:24
It’s amazing how often these “key teachings” have other completely contradictory “key teachings”. With lines like these, all followers can’t help but fail half of them.
“Thou shalt not kill. Now go slaughter everybody who’s living in this land I’ve picked out for you.”
To be fair, that rule was mostly against murder. Heavenly ordained ethnic cleansing is therefore A-OK.
Never thought about it in those exact terms, but yeah, big words from an invisible sky wizard who never has to deal with consequences.
Kinda reminds me of all the other invisible sky wizards other people have written about. You know, the ones who are always changing their minds and sending their minions to kill the others’ minions.
Maybe you can ask the sky wizard about it someday. You should have at least a brief opportunity.
I’m hungry for skycake. Maybe some skycroissants.
Uh OH…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLHhPqpIE4
Dangie DANG
There’s been so much good stuff lately. Willis is a juggler, multicolored eggs flung from his hands, travelling in beautiful colorful arcs. In mid-air cracks appear in a yellow egg, and you can’t believe your eyes, then you hear a fretful cheep as the tip of a beak pokes from the blue. A huge pair of wings unfold from the green and as your eyes boggle at the wonder unfolding a huge bird of paradise springs from the orange one, curved majestically and adrift.
Then the juggler punches you right in the face, stomps on your heart and drinks your tears.
Notebooked, you have spoken the truth. I am in awe of your metaphor’s perfection.
Joyce’s mom….it’s MY mom! AAAHHHH!!
Seriously though, my mom is actually much like Joyce’s, including the narrow world view.
Right now I could blow a Courageload.
Man, I’m getting excited about this.
They raised Joyce to be just as certain of herself as they are of themselves. Oh sweet irony.
I can relate to that comment: my mother was scared to tears for my soul when I refused to go to the Christmas celebration after I hit 18.
I haven’t gone to church since, exception made for deaths.
Religion doesn’t cause controlling parents, wars, or hate-speech. However, the three do love to cite it.
well certain religious/sectarian conducts promote them
It’s kind of a chicken or the egg issue. Take the Crusades. You could say they were motivated by religion or you could say it’s awfully convenient that said wars would provide landless nobles with land and wealth by killing people who looked different. Likewise, those in power do love to use religion to promote conformity but history also shows the reverse can be true.
Joyce has now officially grown a pair of … pupils?
Blupils.
But she’s gonna take the Red Pill.
At any rate, this is just warmup. They did not have to come to terms yet with Ethan being gay (now that’s a mixed bag of blessings if any: bodes good for a lack of premarital hankypanky and bad for a lack of postmarital hankypanky or whatever). And if we ever get to the “your boyfriend is making out with your brother” stage, the mouse-over text might prove truly prophetic.
Can’t be surprised about this. They didn’t let Joyce ride her bike around the block until she was 16. They totally controlled her schooling and picked who she could interact with.
The only surprise is that they let her go to a non-Bible college. It’s not like she needs enough education for a career, just enough to follow a home school curriculum with her children. College was not supposed to change her, just confirm her in her beliefs.
I very nearly cheered for Joyce just now. Awesome final panel there ^_^
Ooh, this gon’ be goood…
I know we all want to see her succeed, but generally the first time someone tries to rebel against their parents in a confrontation the kid is not the one who has the positive outcome.
That said, because there are more people there who are going to side with the non-crazy religious side, there is a better chance for success.
But she is demonstrably correct.
+1 for comment sounding just like what your gravatar would say.
Literally laughed out loud when I realized that
How often is that relevant?
Others have pointed this out, but if logic worked on Joyce’s parents there wouldn’t be a problem in the first place.
BALLS DROPPED
THAT’S RIGHT, LADY BALLS
DON’T QUESTION IT, THAT’S OUR WORLD NOW
JOYCE IS GONN’ LEVEL THE FUCK UP SON
Monk JOYCE leveled up!
Courage increased by 37!
Learned REBELLION!
She’ll be going super saiyan soon enough.
The hell kind of campaign are we playing?
Lady balls are called breasts, according to King Peggy Bartles.
Time to get the popcorn and start placeing bets odds are 2 -1 in joyces faver
FUCK YEAH, JOYCE.
JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE JOYCE!
Wallpaper size picture of that last panel?
that would be a great idea
Yay!
I have to say that the colors here are really nice.
Go Joyce!
Wait, I had to read that a few times for it to click.
“We don’t want a repeat of this morning, do we?”
A) as if they didn’t totally spearhead the incident in the morning.
B) as if merely being in their presence while waiting to meet Joshua will be enough to incite another incident.
What was the incident in their head, I wonder? What precisely do they think made this morning uncomfortable for Joyce?
Of course, they weren’t thinking of Joyce at all. They were thinking of what THEY were uncomfortable with.
I hate fundies like Joyce’smother!
Why do we always call them fundies, when they’re not really that fundamental?
Calling them fundies is just validating what they do.
Because it’s short for “fundamentalist”, not “fundamental”.
Right, but the reason they call themselves that is because they believe their interpretation of the bible is more accurate than everyone else’s.
they are called fundies because they read the bible literally.
its a pretty strange thing that a book writed in a figurative way to teach moral to the common jew people of thousands of years ago , its now readed literally by first world educated people . Don´t get me wrong i deeply respect christianity, but reading the bible straight up literal, just doesn´t make sense to me
My sister does this. She believes every miracle occurred, the flood happened, and that there are no other books in the Bible. She goes to church every week. She believes HIV is god’s punishment toward the gays for their sins.
And now she has the gall to tell me that she doesn’t believe in religion.>P
Where’s insanely hot Joshua when you need him?
Wait. When “you” need him or when “I” need him?
I feel like I need him more though.
One more thing: Walky’s Mom vs Joyce’s Mom!
Crazy Mom Battle!
Fight!
Ethan’s Mom gets winner?
OH BOY
HERE WE GO
Shots fired!
Joyce’s mom forgets that to convert the heathens, one must go amongst the heathens…
Unless we corrupt you first with our pre-marital hanky panky & healthy interest in porn.
Don’t forget “live and let live”. That blasphemous teaching has corrupted more innocent minds than I can count.
I still don’t believe this is a thing in the USA.
Googling “why are some Americans so religious” gives me some confusing answers.
Help a yuropoor out, would you guys. Why is this happening out there?
Because there are a lot of entitled pricks here that are mad at entire groups, just because one person in that group read their secret diary while they were growing up.
In all seriousness, though, I don’t really get it either, but I was brought up to be nice to others, so idk. Best guess on my part, is that it’s not that it only happens here, but we are the loudest about it.
Actually, Intie, it is a religion thing, not a US thing. Look back at European history. Romans persecuting the early Christians; Luther breaking away from the Catholic Church; Henry VIII setting up the Anglican Church; Huguenots; Calvinists; the Spanish Inquisition; and of course just about everybody hating on the Jews. When America was founded (by Europeans) all that hate and distrust of others just got transplanted is all.
yeah, but we tend to forget that USA founders were religious extremist, escaping europe because it was too pagan!! everybody forget that those people were saved by indians. which later were killed and drive off their lands. Later they remembered that day as “the day gods save us” instead of having any regret of killing the folk that save them.
Its true that religion hate come way back in the europe history, but nonetheless , USA its a very particular religious country.
While everyone does forget that the pilgrims were extremists, they didn’t have any more influence on the founding of America than the settlers at Jamestown.
Don’t forget, some of the settlers were part of a penal colony.
The initial settlers were NOT the founders.
Is your question why so many Americans are religious (in which, the answer is strong community ties and a direct relationship with God) or why so many religious Americans are assholes? I got nothing on that, other than most people are naturally so and take a lot of dedicated effort to be otherwise.
Ah, the stinging whip of Christian love.
I may or may not have literally jumped up and down when I read that last panel.
I didn’t, but I did get very excited and made a face.
Yay! Go Joyce!
The friendship we’re trying to have is…not a friendship you’ll decide on! We…by ourselves…choose our friendship from the infinite universe! We will fight through it. We will fight through it and protect our friendship! We’ll show you we can do it!
I take it this family doesn’t do much evangelizing. Aside from, perhaps,
“Hey, sinner, repent of your rock n’ roll and other Satanism.”
“I’m Presbyterian.”
“Hell-bound you go, jackass.”
This is AMAZING. Made me laugh out loud at work.
I kid you not, it’s not that far from a conversation I had at my college campus. Of course, my wife came from a fundamentalist family she lapsed from and did a double take when she found out I was religious (only acted like a stereotypical Star Wars geek) and my church marched with gay rights groups.
It was like we were from the anti-matter universe of Qward.
Dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun…it’s about to get REAL here.
Carol: “Come on, Joyce. Let’s get out of here. Do we want a repeat of this morning? I mean, you know I’m physically incapable of not being a confrontative bigoted asshat.”
Dorothy: “Look, Mrs. Brown, please, we’re just passing through.”
Deborah: “We don’t mean any harm.”
Carol: “Yeah, well, I do.”
I feel a great disturbance in the force…
I only hope Joyce handles her tirade eloquently and doesn’t do the whole “You’re not the boss of me! You can’t tell me what to do!”
Joyce’s mom and dad went to school in… the 70s? And this is a public university in Indiana, not some bible college? How on earth is she misremembering her college years so badly?
If the Dumbing of Age universe is set as now (circa 2010) then it’s more likely that Joyce’s parents went to school in the middle ’80s or early ’90s. Going to school even as late as 1979 would mean they were born in the mid-1950s; and assuming Joyce to be a normal-aged college freshman that would mean she (Joyce) would have been born sometime around 1992. It’s not unheard of for a woman in her late 30s to still be having children, but that would make them to be around 55 now – and they certainly don’t appear to be that old.
What? Your Joyce is evolving! *Evolution music* Congratulations, your Joyce evolved into Improved Joyce!
Carol kind of got the situation right even if her reaction is seven shades of wrong.
http://friendlyatheist.tumblr.com/post/26951849163/old-atheism-vs-new-atheism
‘atta girl! Stand up for yourself and your friends! Be your own person!
Will I get a demerit or something for cursing?
Because hoooooooooooly shit that last panel!
Her face is adorable, but her eyes say, “I will destroy you.” Remind me to never cross Joyce Brown.
That’s right, Joyce…go ahead and openly rebel. Even though mommy will be going home in a day or two and you will once again be free to do what you want.
Oh Joyce… YES!
That final panel of Joyce makes me so happy
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh. Get told, Mrs.brown!
And coming into the bell lap the Brown’s have started to cut into Blaine’s big lead. Do they have what it takes to catch him. The crowd’s on it’s feet…
I DON’T CARE IF SHE’S YOUR MOM. KICK HER EEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
“I will not be subject to parental overprotective abuse”
I think that Joyce’s parents suffer from a peculiar form of self-blindness that my grandmother had. She was a hateful, domineering, vicious bongo, but if you recorded her being that way, she would be unable to identify the evil woman on the screen. She thought that she was a kind and loving person.
Can the Browns recognize themselves if someone whips out a smartphone and starts recording(for legal purposes. Look at the look of fear on Dorothy’s face.)
Tell your shit sack moron parents off, Joyce.
I feel like the entirety of this story arc has been building up to that fiercely assured panel of Joyce finally standing up for what she believes. I love it.
And in the end Joyce, while brainwashed, is too kind of a person to stand by and let her parents be monsters
Funny part is, a huge part of her brainwashing is kindness!
#backfire #hashtag
*epic thrash metal starts to play*
Funny, Dorothy’s parent seem like more decent people.
Wait, what? Was there an encampment of Atheist people back in their days where all the Atheist people must stay outside of class times or something?
I’m supposedly Christian but I seeChristians like this who already put it in Jesus’ hands and don’t trust the result
I find it so weird that Dorothy is usually in the defensive position about being an atheist whereas being any kind of Christian is the preferable norm. I feel it should be the other way around, but maybe I’m just being European. =/