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Or the fact that a very small select group of people were initially responsible for rewriting all of the bible. And then there’s the EONS that noone was allowed to OWN a bible.
That’s actually a Fable. People COULD own Bibles. It’s just that since one Bible took years and years and years to make pre printing press, only the very wealthy could even dream of affording one.
Then, on top of that, you’d actually have to be LITERATE to read one. “Ah,” you say, “But they were all in Koine Greek or Latin, not the vernacular!!! So See, they were kept from the Masses!” Except, not really. because. at the time, if you were educated to read or write, you could read and write Latin, since that was the international language. (And, at the start of the time period you’re complaining about, it was also the vernacular for pretty much most of the world)
Those fancy stained glass windows in old churches? The whole POINT was to provide a ‘Children’s Picture Bible” in a world where books were precious treasures.
The “People were forbidden to OWN one” is actually a fable passed around by certain stripes of Protestant to explain why they’re justified in having their own sect, and why they were the first to get it right after 1500- 1800 years (depending on the sect) of TOTAL PERDITION.
But, thanks for repeating historically inaccurate catch phrases! Much like the inaccuracies in History Channel documentaries, they let me gauge how much to trust any future statements!
The Act For the Advancement of True Religion (England 1543) is but one example of the laws enacted to restrict the use of the bible by ‘lesser’ classes. It wasn’t simply that poor people couldn’t afford a bible, it was (indeed) against the law, and for the purposes of controlling what people thought about its contents.
Obviously this idea isn’t a ‘fable’ being passed around by Protestants, since the first example I found was enacted by a Protestant (one of the first) monarch. If you’re interested in fables, however, we’re talking about a book that’s full of pretty nifty ones. My favorite? The part where Yeshua smites the heck out of tree.
Uh, if you think all literate people within europe read latin and greek you’re not just reading historical inaccuracies. The call for local language bibles is no myth.
Like, seriously, this would have been the perfect time to start talking about how a lot of the real contest was between the german landed nobility (initially) and the catholic church’s temporal power. Certainly, many of the nobility who backed protestantism did not apparently believe in it – but they saw a chance to break, or at least, seriously damage, a monolith that very few of them liked in its political power. ARGH.
“Or the fact that a very small select group of people were initially responsible for rewriting all of the bible.”
Showing Pravda still effects us all.
“And the fact that the Bible had been warped out of its original intent by corrupt people for their own gain.”
Yes, but the “Gnu Atheists” aren’t getting away with that as much as they’d like to.
Bible 101 doesn’t cover the controversial first page which declares “The following work is fiction, any similarities to people past or present is purely coincidental. This work should not be taken seriously.”
No, just everyone else’s is wrong. Obviously the Nondenominational Church of Indiana (La Porte sect, of course, not like those corrupt Fort Wayne “Christians”) have the right copy, right translation, with the language perfectly adjusted to be understood in a modern context.
Though seriously, she said before that she went Nondenominational, so besides her irrational fear of Catholics and Mormons, who knows how she feels about other sects? (Willis, duh.)
Also, a sect of Christianity that believes that the Bible is imperfect, but on the whole true would be pretty interesting.
This is also Catholic teaching, we teach that the Bible is multifaceted and has many different meanings, and it was originally written more as a history of the people rather then a religious text. This is one of the major differences between Protestants and Catholics, tradition vs following the Bible, but to be fair, the split was caused because Catholics wouldn’t share the Bible.
The Anglican church is largely the same (despite being Protestant). due to it maintaining much of the Catholic tradition and the split was largely over secular power rather than theology. Honestly this is more a feature of American Evangelical churches more than anything else.
This was also how the Lutheran Church I more-or-less grew up in was. I know that there are varying sects within the Lutheran denomination, but in the one I went to it really felt like a Catholic Church sans the saints, the pope, and the crucifixes.
I live in an area now where pretty much you’re either Roman Catholic or evangelical, “fundamentalist” Southern Baptist. Among non-Catholic folks believing that the Bible is 100% true word-for-word is expected and assumed.
I’ve been told that while men did write the books of the Bible, they did so with God guiding their hands. It always sounds to me as if God possessed Moses, Mark, Luke and all the other authors, wrote what he/He wanted and deemed to be the truth, then vacated them when it was finished. If I say that aloud I get told I’m “missing the point” but no one can explain to me what the point actually is. Then if I mention that often words and phrases don’t translate well in to other languages and the enormous number of times the books of the Bible have been translated (I’m an interpreter. I know very well how translations can get jumbled), so that even assuming the original authors got it perfect, it could still be mistranslated, I’m told that obviously God guided the hands of the translators too so we should still take the Bible literally.
About that time I get the urge to find a wall to bang my head against.
“Also, a sect of Christianity that believes that the Bible is imperfect, but on the whole true would be pretty interesting.”
That would be the Mormons. Article of Faith 8: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
i.e. “Yes, we are aware that this has been edited to high hilt, but it’s the best we’ve got. Luckily, we believe in modern revelation to double-check the meanings of stuff.”
Don’t forget about the Quakers! We are against creeds and formalized institutional statements of belief. There are even nontheist Friends. It’s more about a way of living or skiing out the truth for yourself than arguing about what that truth is.
I’ve never even seen a physical copy of the King James version of the Bible.
And every time, I see a quote from it (especially when its a passage I recognize) I think to myself… “No wonder so many people think Christianity is bullshit”.
Hell, my vague recollections of The Case for Christ, is that it was just chapter after chapter of “that’s the Kings James translation and its utter crap”.
Go visit a Mormon some time. They cling to the King James version like it’s gospel. Despite having a doctorinal disclaimer specifically to allow them to ignore any part they want. While simultaneously having a noticeably altered “corrected” translation of it around that they virtually never refer to. It’s complicated. Or something.
There are a lot of very loud Christians who CLAIM to believe the King James version is inerrant truth. They are not a majority, and the more familiar they are with the bible the less they tend to hold this position.
I was taught to believe that the version of the Bible we have is the inerrant word of God to us, and if there are other translations of the Bible then those are deceptions inflicted on other people. But we don’t have to worry. Because our Bible is perfect. Because God wouldn’t ever allow deceit to affect us because we’re southern baptists???
Nowadays it’s kinda hard to wrap my head around it, but it gets even weirder than that. My mother also believed that the US Constitution was written by jesus through the founding fathers and that we would never be able to run out of oil because jesus would give us more. Her entire life was and is coordinated and enabled through the careful, painstaking efforts of her parents and ex-husband, so challenges to this worldview are rare. She justifies every hardship or speedbump as the result of her sinful failings. Somehow that translates to an assertion, taught to her children, that our lives are baaasically just a game of Sims that god plays when he’s not beating his wife.
Really, it’s not so much a coherent model of the world as it is an instinct that builds excuses. Anything that might cause her to question whether or not her idea of right and wrong might need calibration -> TRUST IN GOD. Anything that might cause her to question the sunday school lessons she received at age six -> TRUST IN GOD. She burns her toast -> TRUST IN GOD. It got worse after her head injury.
Excuse me. I have to go listen to Let it Go on endless repeat for another six hours.
Ever read The Restaurant at the End of the Universe? That bit with the Total Perspective Vortex, which shows you a scale model of the entire universe, and your relevance to it all, and shatters the minds of any who witness it, because we’ve all developed delusions of significance to cope with out lives?
The real world would probably have that effect on Joyce. Then again, she’s been pretty resilient so far. If she saw the world as it truly is, she might just decide to put unicorn stickers on it.
I am not familiar with that at all, but it sounds silly. We are significant to ourselves, and that is what matters (if it even does… that’s taking for granted that being significant is somehow important). It is completely irrelevant whether or not we’re significant on a universal scale; why would anybody even care? Would we get a medal or a trophy if we were?
I don’t know why I’m arguing against a piece of fiction, but anyways.
I find the idea of my complete insignificance oddly liberating. It doesn’t matter to the universe what I do, so I’m completely free to do what I really want in life. Is that messed up?
Doctor_Who: “If she saw the world as it truly is,”
Aaaaand , of course, you’ve got the corner on what “truly is,”
amIright?
Especially as the Dr. Who from the series actually does consider himself significant. “*I’ve* put a lot of work into it.”
I have a handle on what truly is! Joyce’s universe was created by Willis, and so it conforms to his decisions on the structure of the world. That means that, based on my knowledge of Willis’s worldview, I can say with certainty that in Joyce’s universe the only god is Willis. And I’m pretty sure she doesn’t worship Willis, and I’m very sure that Willis doesn’t match of with the description of the god in Joyce’s bible. Except for the part about having angels of death at his beck and call; that much it gets right.
It’s been implied that, in-comic, D&MM is the creation and work of the in-comic David Willis. So it could be considered that D&MM is the inerrant word of Joyce’s omnipotent creator, passed through the fourth wall to his in-comic avatar, and so in joining the D&MM fandom, Joyce is in fact converting to her comic universe’s one true religion.
I just hope in-comic Willis doesn’t have to get nailed to a post to seal the deal.
The third one specifically. Comments aren’t so bad there, I don’t remember where I was when I first saw it, maybe I’m just misremembering. But that is the video.
I’ve never gotten the appeal of cookies and cream. I mean, I like Oreos just fine. But it’s just vanilla ice cream with Oreos in it. There are way more interesting flavors than that. (I’m with you on cookie dough, though.)
I go to a fancy local-ingredient, season flavors all the time, 5 dollars for two scoops ice cream parlor, so I can’t even judge. Cookie dough is my favorite mainstream flavor, but I’d rather have something inventive and unusual any day of the week.
That sounds delicious, but I’m not a fan of coconut. As for the ice cream, combine raspberry swirl with cherry, strawberry, fudge ripple, and cheesecake. Chef don’t judge.
I have that issue with almost anything else: books, movies, etc. But ice cream is a comfort food, and I know what comforts me the most, so that’s what I pick. But I rarely order it when I go out, saving it for particular times. I like to get new kinds of ice cream every time. So many flavors, almost all good (if not all to my taste).
I fail at links. It’s supposed to say “Speculoos” ice cream for the win, with speculoos being the link to an explanation of wtf it is for all those unfortunate enough to not know.
Let’s see…Janeway is really a villainous dictator and you really don’t want to fuck with the Sisko. The dude punched Q like he owes him money. The Defiant is his motherfucking pimp hand.
Eh, maybe a little bit. The advantage it has is that a cup of Earl Grey is always a good time. I don’t always want an English Breakfast or some variety of Green, but that’s just me.
I once saw a national organization torn apart because of a debate over how wide a character’s belt should be cosplayed. One camp wanted it to be 2 1/2 inches, the other wanted it to be 3 inches. There was blood, screaming, war. It was fun.
Maybe not continents but vast majority of people yes, try insulting any popstar boy toy under the age of 21 on any mass media website like facebook,twitter, or YouTube I promise you their anyoing ass teen age girl fan base will be on your ass like hell fire.
Oh thats a nother thing did I say fan base, I mean fan CULTS
That’s ‘cos no-one has tried translating Dexter & Monkey Monster from Archaic Americanese into Modern Scots yet. Just you wait 500 years ’til commoners are finally allowed to own a copy, then you’ll see
Thank you, Willis. I understand what you meant. The comments for this one will probably be interesting to say the least. And I will be sitting back and enjoying the chaos.
This was inevitable the moment he created DoA! Joyce as the character she is in a world not shaped around her worldview. Which is to say you’ve had years of warning; if you’re not braced for impact by now (or raring to go) there’s no help for you.
I hope she’s not talking about episode, “Rags to Misses” That episode felt chaotic on a whole and was far too dependent on running gags. I feel like the new seasons aren’t welcoming to the newer fan base and rely too much on older material.
I know I’m going to invite some flames here, but I really thought the Ape Wars arc was overrated. I know! Pathos and drama and plot and freaking Cerebus syndrome. It really overreached itself by trying to prove it wasn’t just a kids show.
Say what you will about the Ape Wars arc, it handles the characterization really well. Heck, I still rank Jet Zebra’s heroic sacrifice as one of the most touching moments in animated history.
If you can call that animation, did you see how many times they reused that walk cycle animation for Dexter. When are they gonna give the budget to this cartoon that it deserves?
Haha awesome. Now to divert people’s attentions, what fandom have you been acquainted or reacquainted with lately? I’ll start off: Twin Peaks. Man, what I wouldn’t give to live in a cozy quaint Pacific NW town with the occasional supernatural going-on.
I’ve seen one episode of Twin Peaks. I’d like to see more, but it’ll have to wait until I cross other things off my list. I’m having a lovely time with the Hannibal fandom. With the exception of when people get killed off, everyone is charming and lovely.
Joe’s thinking about how adorable Joyce looks while simultaneously fearing the physical abuse she might shower on him if he mentions it. It’s sad, really…
Let’s be real here: anybody that actually would be offended by sentiments like the comic shows here have probably already been driven away from Dumbing of Age, as it says stuff like this pretty much every single chance it can get. Willis just keeps beating that dang horse, without bothering to check its pulse or anything. Phrases like “preaching to the choir” come to mind.
I wouldn’t agree with that, the beating a dead horse part that is. This comic both shows Joyce continue to find her comfortable place in university and Walky learning to keep his mouth shut, even if it is at Dorothy’s prompting.
Ya I feel as if Willis probably drove away 20% of his reader with that Discussion on racism we had that one time and on how many people read this comic that’s probably a lot, which is part of the reason why he shut down the comment section that one time.
Beating a horse? Dude, Joyce’s struggle with her religion versus her life is kind of the central conceit of her character and probably the comic itself. It is WHY I am writing this thing, because that struggle is extremely personal and important to me. If the subject’s going to annoy you I’d go read some other damn comic that isn’t about a fundamentalist Christian going to a secular school for the first time.
I’m not saying that I’m against the cornerstone of the whole comic, it’s just repeating the same punchline over again (Joyce believes this silly thing, because of Religion) gets stale after reading it for years on end. We’ve figured out Garfield doesn’t like Mondays by now, thanks.
I’m not saying “stop talking about Joyce and religion”, because that’s a big part of the reason I’m here, I’m saying stop recycling the same joke, but with a different twist each time. You can make original jokes about transforming robots for years without it getting stale.
And no, I’m not going to stop reading your comic because I made a complaint (singular) and you got all mad. I’m going to sit here enjoying your comic for a long damn time, and now I can say I do it partly out of spite.
If “saying something about religion and being wrong” is just one joke, with no possible subfacets, then, wow, that is not a definition of “same joke” that I share, at all. It might be one of the most anti-comedy theories I’ve heard in a long time.
I dunno if those are great examples. I mean, the “joke” of Joyce’s religion and the reactions of those around her to it is constantly moving forward and evolving based on new sets of stimuli, whereas the jokes you mention are largely pretty samey and stagnant.
Oh no, I very much enjoy the strip. It’s a highlight of my day. And being told to stop reading it entirely because I said something negative peeves me off. Somebody telling me that just makes me want to keep on enjoying it regardless of what they think. The fact that it’s the author is irrelevant.
And thank you for that. If it wasn’t for your comic, I probably wouldn’t interact with my family at all, but since… like, halfway through It’s Walky!, Joyce storylines have helped me put my relationship with my crazier southern baptist relatives into perspective.
That’s something I’ve personally seen quite commonly among atheists and agnostics raised in fairly stringent Christian households. That said, IIRC Walkyverse Walky wasn’t from such a background, so it’s still kinda odd unless it was the kinda thing he’d learned not to do because of the community his family lived in and the kids he associated with.
“X” is an abbreviation for Christ. Modern days it’s mostly used for Xmas, but from the 11thish century to the early 1900s it was used more commonly (For things like Xtopher (Christopher), Xene (Christine), and Xtianity (Christianity)). I still use it because it saves time and space, both of which didn’t really work here because I’m typing this long reply, but hey, I love babbling about History.
Yeah, I thought it was hilarious [not really] that so-called Christians complain that heathans are “crossing Him out” with Xmas, when that was “Xians” doing that in the first place.
I know of some atheists who refuse to do such because they think it’s silly to swear by fictitious beings they don’t believe in. In much the same way one doesn’t use the words “unicorn” or “pixies” in vain.
I’m atheist, and I try not to because I feel it gives in to the idea that I’m atheist TOWARD the Christian god, instead of disbelieving in all gods that have ever been and are currently worshipped.
I’m an atheist and it wierds me out that I DO swear using the word “god!”, because dammit as an atheist I should have relegated that word into mythical obscurity by now. Also, “dammit”.
Quebec has the worst swears ever. One of the guys in my gaming group’s from Montreal, and… it’s really difficult to take someone seriously when they’re mad when their idea of hard-hitting profanity is “chalice”, “tabernacle” and “host”. It’s almost as bad as Joyce’s wrongswears.
“Tabernack!” at least has a okay ring to it, but it’s still no competition for English’s harsh Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, or even France-French obscenities.
It’s a bit longer than the most, so there’s plenty of time to make it really land. You can do it all at once when you’re just irritated (“gahdamit”), the bit where you slowly build up volume as you do it when you just can’t take it any more (“god-DAMN-IIIIIT”!), you can break it up into two words for that special one-two punch (“God! Dammit!”), or you can really just let it linger to express that real combination of anger and resignation (“God… dammit”).
YEAP. Once you allow your mind to really think on how things became “canon” in the Bible and then compare that to Star Wars EU canon… well anyone who remains a firm believer is a stronger person than I. Or delusional, but I’ll leave that up in the air.
Wait… she researched a fandom and didn’t come out morally enraged or scarred? Every fandom of everything ever always has at least ONE “super special type of perverse” fan that writes and/or draws really twisted shit. Pretty sure google images would have bombarded her with alien x ape porn after the first line or two of fanart… And there’d probably be at least one creepypasta.
Unrelated note, but it makes me sad that the only thing representative of the MLP fandom is Bronies, and that the only thing that seems to be representative of Bronies are the perverse and beligerent elements of the fandom. I mean, other fandoms contain those elements too; why aren’t they as vilified? Is it because that these people are defiling what is perceived by society to be the essense of girliness and femininity? Is it that they’re being beligerent about it and making themselves out as jerks?
There’s a lot I can say on the subject, but since this isn’t an appropriate place to discuss it, I’ll end off by saying that I suppose it’s just an example of the adage “One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch”.
Yeah…but it also reflects humans as well. I always believe that these kinds of people are the reason why we can never have nice things..there’s always that one asshole who ruins it for everybody. Remember the times where we have something that is pretty damn good, and then either some asshole or assholes who for some damn reason muck it up for everyone else and we can’t even escape them for they are everywhere and in every aspect of our lives.
My take on the MLP ‘brony’ fandom and why it’s so villified is because it did a series of progressive steps towards something really, when you think about it, is just all sorts of fucked up.
1. MLP is made with little girls of a certain age bracket in mind… as the toys were. Not that Lauren Faust ever had a problem with boys liking it, but her target audience is girls. Little girls. Girls ages 5-12 if I remember right…. But yes. It’s a girls series for girls for the intent of teaching girls lessons about friendship and overcoming trials in a way that appeals to girls. Girls.
2. Guys start liking the series and cut their little niche into the fandom by calling themselves a cutesy title ‘brony’. Harmless fun. Just a bunch of guys who like to watch a cartoon that’s made for girls because… they like it. MLP creator has no desire or inclination to cater to them because they fall outside of her target demographic, and it starts off with bronies being cool with that, because they know they’re watching a TV show made for girls.
3. Bronies get comfortable in their niche and some members start doing what happens in every fandom… thinking about, discussing, and fantasizing about it in ways that were not intended by the creator. Some of ends up being completely opposite of what the series intended, like the animated youtube parody videos where Pinkie Pie violently kills all the other ponies because she’s the happiest character and happy characters are always psychotic joke… and some ends up being sexual, either because “lolololol rule 34” joke or because the people doing that genuinely get off on “pony porn”… Ignorable at this stage… annoying, sometimes disturbing, but ignorable. MLP is still made for girls.
4. Some bronies start thinking that since they watch the series so religiously, buy merchandise, or do something as inane as post a billion times on official forums, that the series needs to start catering to THEM and the adult bronies want adult themes, such as violence and sex. They start getting loud about it and shoving their weight around by producing more “fan content” that is violent and/or pornographic… While Lauren Faust and the other producers of the show still show NO inclination towards catering to these people, their behavior starts affecting the show itself by managing to make the number of ACTUAL LITTLE GIRLS who are fans of the show shy away from the series both in terms of watching the show or participating in online venues for it. Girls are actually getting scared off or grossed out by the things they find on the internet related to MLP to where it actually turns them off from the show entirely, so the shows ratings for their target demographic are declining. While a bunch of adult men may keep the ratings up and buying merchandise, the target demographic is being pushed out and scared off.
So… yeah. Imagine if you had a little sister or female relative and she was given a treehouse for her and her friends to enjoy. Her and her friends have fun in it for awhile, but then grown adult men find the treehouse and decide that they like it too. These adult men start hanging out in the treehouse and decide to make themselves at home. They hook up TVs with consoles and start hanging up posters… then start playing extremely violent videogames, spouting off foul language, watching porn and masturbating, drinking, getting in fights, and their posters all end up being violent or pornographic in some way. Your little sister/female relative and her friends end up being intimidated and scared away from their treehouse, even though it’s still THEIRS and was meant for them, but they understandably don’t want to be around a bunch of grown men being violent, vulgar, and showing them content that is completely inappropriate to her and her friends.
So… yeah. That’s just my conclusion on bronies. I know a few guys who are bronies and are disgusted with what the fandom has become and the stigma it has now, but as with everything… the cool and moderate people are always drowned out by the loud and obnoxious few.
Because almost the ENTIRE MLP fandom is a misaimed fandom, I would wager. I mean, sure, there’s always “that guy” in every other fandom, but with the bronies it’s like 95% of them.
It’s actually a point that Willis brings up in relation to his own hobby all the time in Shortpacked… yes, there are adults that collect toys, but the majority of the consumers and the target audience are actual children, and that’s sort of as it should be. Failing to understand that as a member of the misaimed (i.e. adult) portion of the hobby kinda makes you a jerk.
I will leave what this implies about Christians arguing over bible interpretation, especially old-testament interpretation, as an extremely easy exercise for the reader.
The MLP fandom isn’t really anything special. It’s just the latest annoyingly loud and inescapable fandom. A new one crops up every few years, I believe the last one was Harry Potter, it was everywhere all the time. Twilight was similarily everywhere but it was more of a hatedom that was the loud ones.
When one of these fandoms goes huge your feelings on the subject plays a big deal. If you like it then you don’t quite notice how pervasive it is and maybe wish the better less obsessive fans were recognised as the majorities. If you don’t like the fandom you notice how it’s absolutely everywhere and each mention just makes you madder.
As a Brony, what bothers me is that the negative side of the fandom gets all the attention, despite the positive things the fandom has done. As far as I know, there isn’t a single member of the fandom that the irony of the situation that they are a fan of a show designed for small girls. Hell that whole thing was one of the reasons I avoided giving it a chance for so long. Then I saw some of the creative works of the fandom, a few music videos t original songs inspired by the show. I hadn’t seen that in any other fandom. SO I gave it a shot. [the show having Lauren Faust of powerpuff girls and foster home for imaginary friends fame helped too.]
Unfortunately in the Brony Fandom, we have a mix between, true fans who actually LIKE the show, troll fans who just want to inflate the worst possible parts of the fandom mentality weather they honestly like it or not, hipster fans who I just feel are only riding this boat because its the in thing of the moment., and perverse fans, who may or may not be true fans, but are responsible for the need of a mature content filter that works on google search.
Mind you every fandom is plagued by some of the same things. Sonic the Hedgehog, Danny Phantom, Kim Possible, Inuyasha, the more popular something is the more positive, AND negative things can be found in its fandom.
I think people need to chill out of about the fandom hate, except twilight, that was a bastardization of everything that is werewolf/vampire. vampires dont sparkle in sunlight, they friggin BURN, this was established YEARS ago.
Pink being a girls color is reletively recent, it was originally the color of little boys.
But, unlike virtually everything else, MLP–and MLP:FIM in specific–is both DIRECTLY TARGETED at young girls [with a concession for adult viewers who may or may not happen to be cis-male] AND fairly well-known. It’s practically impossible to find someone* who isn’t at least aware of MLP and, thanks to the cookie-cutterness of the characters, able to recognize it on sight, while even Disney characters might leave you wondering whether they’re Disney [or merely Disney-owned, in many cases].
*I guess if you leave first-world society, then MAYBE.
MLP is also the most, ah, “corruptible” of the franchises you mentioned, if we get into that ick factor… I thought about adding more to this thought, but =|
Eh, I don’t think people should hate Twilight just because the author decided on different rules for the species. We should hate it because it’s a badly written piece of garbage.
“As a Brony, what bothers me is that the negative side of the fandom gets all the attention, despite the positive things the fandom has done.”
LOL, look at the way Atheists view Christians; even on this forum. Only the negative side is held up as representative. Only the negative arguments get kudos.
Actually I think you just have the right idea about fandoms and content. You don’t have to like it, but you also don’t have to beat them down for what they like.
I never said it was appropriate. I was making a commentary on Joyce and what her reaction would be if she found Dexter x Monkey Master porn, because despite being cheery and generally in control of herself to where she can have an Atheist friend who has sex and doesn’t have aspirations of being a housewife with children, she’s STILL rather judgey and personally intolerant of things that don’t align with her faith. Yes, again, she is friends with Dorothy, but she likely still thinks Dorothy is going to hell for not believing in God and being pure. She just values her friendship here and NOW enough to just not get into deep religious discussion where that things like that pop up, and to face down her parents when they were demanding she never speak to Dorothy again. She’s learning, and getting better in tiny amounts, but old habits die hard… and religious habits are like cockroaches in terms of that.
Bronies are annoying because they felt the need to create a label/subculture centered around their being male fans of a show targeted towards girls. The only reason they’d do this is to distance themselves from the “girliness” of the show, sorta like how insecure guys who show affection for other men feel the need to use “no homo” as a disclaimer. It’s inherently sexist/androcentrist.
One rotton apple spoils the barrel. But I get your message, I think.
My favorite ice cream is pralines and cream, but caramel and vanilla, and strawberry, are decent too. Ice cream is just good.
Bronies get a bad rap because of Cloppers. Cloppers vary from the writing of novel length deep romance fanfics to that POV flash of Chrysalis.
You can’t define a fandom by the works of people like this, but its also hard to separate the good from the bad. There may be many subtle levels you haven’t considered.
I’ve never really understood people’s problems with cloppers, or their various equivalents in other fandoms. So people like to write/draw pornified versions of fictional characters. So what? Don’t look.
It’s the angrily, belligerently obsessive people in the fandoms that generally keep me a fan on the outside. … Like the (apparent) majority of Bronies.
The main problem people have with cloppers is that the subject in general is ponies, and generally speaking, masturbating to animals is seen as really gross because they aren’t human. But aren’t they? The ponies in MLP are, by all other accounts, pretty human, with human speech and human-like societies, human emotions and human thoughts and feelings. It’s just that they have the outward appearance of a pony. But if they represent certain personalities that appeal to you, what does it matter about the way they look?
Basically, it’s all specism. Never mind that they, for all intents and purposes, are self-aware, intellectual creatures capable of complex thoughts and emotions; they look like animals so having sexual fantasies about them makes you disgusting.
And of course, this argument is putting aside the fact that it’s a show meant for little girls, because that’s already a given. But it isn’t really; not after very adult references like The Big Lebowski characters appearing in a shot (with The Jesus, no less), or a scene remake from the movie Trainspotting.
Bah, this got me rambling, and you can clearly see where I stand on the issue, so I’m just gonna stop right here. XD
The issue with beastiality in general is *you can’t get a verifiable approval of consent* from the creature.
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s into that regardless will swear up and down that intelligent animals would negate that ick factor because they can TOTALLY say yes.
I strongly suspect that a lot of the issue with bestiality throughout the centuries is similar to the issue with sex toys; if you’re sexing something that ain’t human, you’re clearly doing it for nonprocreative reasons, you sicko you.
My biggest issue is that the ponies act like and are generally considered to be about 10-13 year old girl ponies. This is emphasized in the “Equestria girls” subshow that they’ve come out with, where the ponies see their more human like selves. These selves are little girls. So the creation of pornography around characters that act like and are meant to be prepubescent girls freaks me out a little.
They ARE fictional, and that makes a difference, but many people consider Lolita to be a disturbing book and she is a fictional character too. It makes us uncomfortable to think of grown men preferring the characteristics of children in sexual arenas.
I made reference in another post to the MLP fandom being like a treehouse made specifically for a little girl and her friends… only for some random adult guys to decide they like it and essentially take it over with the “adult themes” of violence and sex by playing violent games, watching porn, etc… How fair is it to the little girls of MLP to have grown men pushing their way into something made for them and trying to make it cater to THEIR wants and whims, to the point where the girls no longer feel welcome, or even safe, to try and enjoy it like they were supposed to? Do a google search sometime on MLP and take a look at all the ‘adult’ content that fills up the first page. Safe search might help weed that stuff out, but even that’s not foolproof. Imagine being a parent and seeing your daughter wading through hundreds of images of “pony porn” while she was just innocently looking for some fanart for a desktop background… or imagine being the girl that just wants to find pretty and cool MLP pics and ends up with page upon page of Rainbow Dash eating out Fluttershy. Unfortunately that’s what’s happening with it, and the target demographic (little girls) is starting to decline despite the show, for what it was made for, being good.
When I went to my significant other’s church a couple weeks ago (I’m a lasped Catholic, but I went to Catholic school and am well-read in the Bible just from my childhood), the Priest homily included whole sections talking about how each of the gospels are a different man’s interpretation of the life of Jesus and how interpreting them in different ways is absolutely essential – that it shouldn’t be taken literally. He also mentioned that Mary and Martha are two of Jesus’ greatest students according to John but that the Church and Christian religions in general downplay their importance (Mary Magdalene’s in particular) because they’re women and sexism is a thing that still exists in religion. It was the most progressive, feminist homily I ever heard and I was actually grinning at the end because my god, that priest got it. Just the “we have to take the gospels with a grain of salt because they were written from the point of few of fallible men” was awesome.
I’m Christian, and even I know the awkwardness of her statement. For me, it’s non-fiction, but I know that it’s written and translated by people who are flawed, have their own views, and write what they believe is the most accurate that doesn’t conflict with their views.
If you ever need an example, try looking up the dead sea scrolls, and the books that didn’t make the cut for the bible because of their controversial content.
Yeah, there was a fascinating article I read back when the CofE was voting on female bishops, about how the arguments against from the KJV were based on … well, Hanlon’s Razor says I should call them mistranslations, but it’s interesting how there didn’t seem to be any mistranslations that could be read as giving women more power.
On the other hand, I was once involved in an internet argument with someone who insisted that every single alteration of the Bible was divinely inspired … up to the version he had. Then I think it stopped.
I have access to three different versions of the bible. King James, Good News, and The Good Leader. Two of them have translated a book of the bible so it reads as erotic poetry with graphic sex acts. The third has translated the same book as gentle romantic poetry suitable for small children. Guess which one I think Joyce reads.
And its exactly because she keeps saying things like this that I occasionally want to smack her upside the head. You know, in a “bad dog, newspaper” sort of way.
The think is, Walky wasn’t actually going to point out the immensely high likelihood of the Bible also being ‘fiction written by flawed mortal men’, rather, he was about to chastise Joyce for speaking such filthy blasphemy against the Gospel that is Dexter and Monkey Master.
Joyce’s brother is transgendered, which is going to be fun but I’d like to make it even weirder. I’d love to see Leslie Bean get with Joyce’s mother because she’s a closeted lesbian. It would be a great reversal of Leslie’s own history in the Walkyverse and also we could see truly EPIC fallout.
Also, I kind of want Robin to be evil in this universe.
You are absolutely correct and I apologize for making a stupid statement which is as stupid as stupid can be without creating a vortex of stupid which can rip me apart in my own stupidity as it is my hope will happen to the stupidest of stupids.
So, what exactly do Christians think happened when the Bible was written? Its well established that its basically a Frankenstenian patchwork of different texts, did God posses the guys who wrote it or what?
Christians, it should be noted, are not a monolithic group and Joyce’s particular brand of Christianity does not represent more than 1% of the world’s believers at best. The vast majority of us don’t believe in Creationalism. Jesus taught in parable, so does the Bible.
Good point. Too bad the media is so filled with noisy morons who not only take the Bible literally but also have to inflict their backward opinions on the rest of us…
Making up numbers to try to defray the crazy is a little bit silly. Let’s look at some real ones, shall we?
A 2011 Gallup poll found that roughly 3 in 10 Americans believed in the literal truth of the bible. A 2012 Gallup poll found that roughly 46% of respondents believed that humans were created directly, in their present state, by God, within the last 10,000 years.
IIRC, Gallup’s methodology is a little outdated. They use robo-dialers that aren’t allowed to call cell phones (because it’s against federal law) and thus they can only reach those people with a landline to call. Skews the results. That’s part of the reason they consistently showed Romney in the lead during the 2012 US Presidential election.
Nope, not random. You have to volunteer, or like me, be volunteered, in order to get the surveys. Who gets the surveys off the various lists is random.
Not to praise Gallup, but the number of sects or the majority of the religion has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of a poll that is about beliefs and not (directly) about sects and religions.
You would have been better off pointing out the poll specifically talks about Americans, which is of little use when talking about the percentage of people in the world who are Christian. Especially considering that Americans are notoriously backwards religiously, especially for a country without a state religion.
* When I worked for Citi, I dealt with Gallup numbers every day, learned how they’re gathered, and learned they’re bullcrap. Never trust ‘em. * I saw someone lose their bonus because Gallup ranked them the worst after surveying one customer who was talking about a different person. * The feedback was “The service was terrible. I’m glad that second agent fixed it, she was amazing.” Gallup marked it against the 2nd agent. * Every time I see Gallup poll numbers affecting the outcome of major world events I cry a little.
If we were to go by a very quick and dirty estimation of 40% of the USA as creationist, which is the statistic I hear thrown around the most, and assume a rough amount of 2.2 billion christians in the world, American creationists alone would account for about 5.5% percent of the world’s believers. Mind you, I realise creationists aren’t a monolithic group either.
Hell, even the Catholic Church (no bastion of progressiveness–at least lately) doesn’t take the Bible literally and believes in evolution. A lot of fundamentalist ideas are peculiarly American phenomenon. Then again, our nation WAS settled by the people England thought were too weird to allow to remain in Europe. I say this as a Presbyterian, a church which was started by one of the meanest nastiest Christian fanatics around–and which is now very liberal.
Personally, I’ve always found the fleshlings smart enough to worship me to be perfectly reasonable. I love my fans and treat them like any other minion.
Depending on what sect of Christianity you’re talking about, some of them actually do acknowledge that much of the Bible is clearly, shall we say, colorful myths and exaggerations due to being stories passed through oral tradition by men, and finally written down by men, and men back then had a tendency to believe in some pretty wild stuff. Back in Catholic school I recall them using the phrase “inspired by God” rather than “literal word of God” to describe the Bible, the point being that the moral lessons were important, and believing in the exact events themselves not so much.
This refers especially to the Old Testament. Stuff in the New Testament tends to be more subtle, plus it was written down much sooner after the events of Jesus’s life compared to the Old Testament scripture.
Pretty much every theologian I’ve ever met have said the same thing. The Bible, whether inspired by God or not, was written by mortal men detailing events that took place decades at best, centuries at most before they were put to paper. Centuries of oral repetition where every retelling would add a little to the story.
Yeah, that’s the really weird thing about the Bible-as-science-textbook thing. It’s not just terrible science, it’s equally terrible theology. It’s an anti-modernist movement that’s 100% modernist in its approach.
Just wanted to say that the last panel of this strip is probably the best of any I’ve seen you do DW. The way you convey the three characters all interacting (or just acting in Joyce’s case I suppose) really comes alive. Well done sir, well done indeed!
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
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It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 2d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
wilbur, savvy enough to know he's in a comic strip but still not a great actor, awkwardly lifts a muffin up into frame so that we, the audience, understand that he has a muffin right now, which is very important narratively, but he's not really selling it well as an organic, human action
confirming that the reason there's been no Galaxy Version female characters in Blokees until now is that they felt they needed to make Round Lady Thighs For Ladies
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 13h
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 1d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 2d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 11d
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But…Joyce should know that the bible was written by flawed mortal men. That’s like…bible 101, right?
SHHHHH!
I think it depends on your sect…
Joyce refuses to engage in sects.
I believe you mean pre-marital honky punky
Pre-marital honky tonky?
So…pre-marital heel Elvis impersonator?
Pre-Martial Hocus Pocus?
Pre-marital Hoochie Coochie?
Pre-marital hakuna matata?
Pre-marital Hackey Sack?
prima riddle Hank keep ankh ee?
#AmIDoinThisRight
Pre-marital Hewlett-Packard?
oh gawd I can never go to work again
Neither does she strike me as the type to submit to denominations.
Denominations? As in $1, $5, $10, $20, etc.? Or in Mike’s case, the Church of the Holy Nickel?
And ladies and gentlemen, Mike’s new religion now has a name
The Joy of Sect.
Surely you mean the *Joyce* of Sect.
Because Joy is from Funny Farm.
+2
Yeah, it’s divine intervention. There’s an imperfect middleman.
Thank you so much for explaining the joke!
Especially the King James version.
Verily verily.
Oh, I’m sure she knows that. She just thinks that it’s fact written by flawed mortal men.
Not to mention all the translation errors.
And the nuances of the original language.
Or the fact that a very small select group of people were initially responsible for rewriting all of the bible. And then there’s the EONS that noone was allowed to OWN a bible.
And the fact that the Bible had been warped out of its original intent by corrupt people for their own gain.
And don’t even get us started on the process of deciding what was going to count as the Bible in the first place.
Which chapters were Jesus Christ: Dragonslayer?
Plot twist: ALL OF THEM.
JESUS CHRIST: SNAKE EXPLODER
#IReadTooMuchCracked
Don’t we all?
That’s actually a Fable. People COULD own Bibles. It’s just that since one Bible took years and years and years to make pre printing press, only the very wealthy could even dream of affording one.
Then, on top of that, you’d actually have to be LITERATE to read one. “Ah,” you say, “But they were all in Koine Greek or Latin, not the vernacular!!! So See, they were kept from the Masses!” Except, not really. because. at the time, if you were educated to read or write, you could read and write Latin, since that was the international language. (And, at the start of the time period you’re complaining about, it was also the vernacular for pretty much most of the world)
Those fancy stained glass windows in old churches? The whole POINT was to provide a ‘Children’s Picture Bible” in a world where books were precious treasures.
The “People were forbidden to OWN one” is actually a fable passed around by certain stripes of Protestant to explain why they’re justified in having their own sect, and why they were the first to get it right after 1500- 1800 years (depending on the sect) of TOTAL PERDITION.
But, thanks for repeating historically inaccurate catch phrases! Much like the inaccuracies in History Channel documentaries, they let me gauge how much to trust any future statements!
Wow. Your explanation was quite illuminating for me, but at the end you were kinda being a dick about it. Not cool. :\
“but at the end you were kinda being a dick about it. Not cool.”
Heal thyself o’ physician.
Ouch. That really hurt. (Not the ‘total dick’ part. You’re right, I should have been nicer. But the terrible pun… ouch…..)
Wanna hear another fable? That learning one piece of misinformation about an obscure subject makes everything else somebody knows false.
The Act For the Advancement of True Religion (England 1543) is but one example of the laws enacted to restrict the use of the bible by ‘lesser’ classes. It wasn’t simply that poor people couldn’t afford a bible, it was (indeed) against the law, and for the purposes of controlling what people thought about its contents.
Obviously this idea isn’t a ‘fable’ being passed around by Protestants, since the first example I found was enacted by a Protestant (one of the first) monarch. If you’re interested in fables, however, we’re talking about a book that’s full of pretty nifty ones. My favorite? The part where Yeshua smites the heck out of tree.
You’re Welcome! I do my best!
Uh, if you think all literate people within europe read latin and greek you’re not just reading historical inaccuracies. The call for local language bibles is no myth.
Like, seriously, this would have been the perfect time to start talking about how a lot of the real contest was between the german landed nobility (initially) and the catholic church’s temporal power. Certainly, many of the nobility who backed protestantism did not apparently believe in it – but they saw a chance to break, or at least, seriously damage, a monolith that very few of them liked in its political power. ARGH.
“Or the fact that a very small select group of people were initially responsible for rewriting all of the bible.”
Showing Pravda still effects us all.
“And the fact that the Bible had been warped out of its original intent by corrupt people for their own gain.”
Yes, but the “Gnu Atheists” aren’t getting away with that as much as they’d like to.
Pravda repeated what the historical evidence indicates is likely? Neat, I guess.
As to gnu atheists, I remind you that fundamentalists in merika have successfully sold their adherents on pre-millenial dispensationalism.
Actually, you’re funny, I wonder what else you’ve said.
Bible 101 doesn’t cover the controversial first page which declares “The following work is fiction, any similarities to people past or present is purely coincidental. This work should not be taken seriously.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4VqbmeJ32U
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=gNtnN_DiP3o
No, just everyone else’s is wrong. Obviously the Nondenominational Church of Indiana (La Porte sect, of course, not like those corrupt Fort Wayne “Christians”) have the right copy, right translation, with the language perfectly adjusted to be understood in a modern context.
Though seriously, she said before that she went Nondenominational, so besides her irrational fear of Catholics and Mormons, who knows how she feels about other sects? (Willis, duh.)
Also, a sect of Christianity that believes that the Bible is imperfect, but on the whole true would be pretty interesting.
I know that the Jesuits believe that the Bible’s underlying messages are true, but the actual words themselves hold no real relevance.
This is also Catholic teaching, we teach that the Bible is multifaceted and has many different meanings, and it was originally written more as a history of the people rather then a religious text. This is one of the major differences between Protestants and Catholics, tradition vs following the Bible, but to be fair, the split was caused because Catholics wouldn’t share the Bible.
The Anglican church is largely the same (despite being Protestant). due to it maintaining much of the Catholic tradition and the split was largely over secular power rather than theology. Honestly this is more a feature of American Evangelical churches more than anything else.
This was also how the Lutheran Church I more-or-less grew up in was. I know that there are varying sects within the Lutheran denomination, but in the one I went to it really felt like a Catholic Church sans the saints, the pope, and the crucifixes.
I live in an area now where pretty much you’re either Roman Catholic or evangelical, “fundamentalist” Southern Baptist. Among non-Catholic folks believing that the Bible is 100% true word-for-word is expected and assumed.
I’ve been told that while men did write the books of the Bible, they did so with God guiding their hands. It always sounds to me as if God possessed Moses, Mark, Luke and all the other authors, wrote what he/He wanted and deemed to be the truth, then vacated them when it was finished. If I say that aloud I get told I’m “missing the point” but no one can explain to me what the point actually is. Then if I mention that often words and phrases don’t translate well in to other languages and the enormous number of times the books of the Bible have been translated (I’m an interpreter. I know very well how translations can get jumbled), so that even assuming the original authors got it perfect, it could still be mistranslated, I’m told that obviously God guided the hands of the translators too so we should still take the Bible literally.
About that time I get the urge to find a wall to bang my head against.
And the walls thank you for your mercy since their heads would do irreparable damage.
“Also, a sect of Christianity that believes that the Bible is imperfect, but on the whole true would be pretty interesting.”
That would be the Mormons. Article of Faith 8: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.”
i.e. “Yes, we are aware that this has been edited to high hilt, but it’s the best we’ve got. Luckily, we believe in modern revelation to double-check the meanings of stuff.”
Holla! *raises hands* We are Progressive Christians, and while we don’t qualify as a denomination you will find us everywhere.
Don’t forget about the Quakers! We are against creeds and formalized institutional statements of belief. There are even nontheist Friends. It’s more about a way of living or skiing out the truth for yourself than arguing about what that truth is.
I don’t know if that was a typo or not but I’m gonna hope no, and hold on to “skiing out the truth”.
I’m going to go even further and hope that “skiing out the truth” ends up looking and sounding like an old bubble gum commercial.
Juicy Fruit Is Gonna Move Ya?
There are a lot (a LOT A LOT A LOT) of Protestant Christians in the USA who think that the King James version of the Bible is inerrant.
At least the commenters here all seem to have clear positions. Who knows what would happen if people like Joyce’s parents read it?
I’ve never even seen a physical copy of the King James version of the Bible.
And every time, I see a quote from it (especially when its a passage I recognize) I think to myself… “No wonder so many people think Christianity is bullshit”.
Hell, my vague recollections of The Case for Christ, is that it was just chapter after chapter of “that’s the Kings James translation and its utter crap”.
Go visit a Mormon some time. They cling to the King James version like it’s gospel. Despite having a doctorinal disclaimer specifically to allow them to ignore any part they want. While simultaneously having a noticeably altered “corrected” translation of it around that they virtually never refer to. It’s complicated. Or something.
There are a lot of very loud Christians who CLAIM to believe the King James version is inerrant truth. They are not a majority, and the more familiar they are with the bible the less they tend to hold this position.
I was taught to believe that the version of the Bible we have is the inerrant word of God to us, and if there are other translations of the Bible then those are deceptions inflicted on other people. But we don’t have to worry. Because our Bible is perfect. Because God wouldn’t ever allow deceit to affect us because we’re southern baptists???
Nowadays it’s kinda hard to wrap my head around it, but it gets even weirder than that. My mother also believed that the US Constitution was written by jesus through the founding fathers and that we would never be able to run out of oil because jesus would give us more. Her entire life was and is coordinated and enabled through the careful, painstaking efforts of her parents and ex-husband, so challenges to this worldview are rare. She justifies every hardship or speedbump as the result of her sinful failings. Somehow that translates to an assertion, taught to her children, that our lives are baaasically just a game of Sims that god plays when he’s not beating his wife.
Really, it’s not so much a coherent model of the world as it is an instinct that builds excuses. Anything that might cause her to question whether or not her idea of right and wrong might need calibration -> TRUST IN GOD. Anything that might cause her to question the sunday school lessons she received at age six -> TRUST IN GOD. She burns her toast -> TRUST IN GOD. It got worse after her head injury.
Excuse me. I have to go listen to Let it Go on endless repeat for another six hours.
Joyce’s perception filter continues to confound me.
It’s a defence mechanism.
Ever read The Restaurant at the End of the Universe? That bit with the Total Perspective Vortex, which shows you a scale model of the entire universe, and your relevance to it all, and shatters the minds of any who witness it, because we’ve all developed delusions of significance to cope with out lives?
The real world would probably have that effect on Joyce. Then again, she’s been pretty resilient so far. If she saw the world as it truly is, she might just decide to put unicorn stickers on it.
I am not familiar with that at all, but it sounds silly. We are significant to ourselves, and that is what matters (if it even does… that’s taking for granted that being significant is somehow important). It is completely irrelevant whether or not we’re significant on a universal scale; why would anybody even care? Would we get a medal or a trophy if we were?
I don’t know why I’m arguing against a piece of fiction, but anyways.
That’s kind of how I felt when I read that book. Then again.. I have never had the opportunity to look into a Total Perspective Vortex.
I find the idea of my complete insignificance oddly liberating. It doesn’t matter to the universe what I do, so I’m completely free to do what I really want in life. Is that messed up?
Well put, Doctor.
But I think she might freak out over the sheer importance raptors have in the universe. I know I would.
I’m pretty sure that Dina already knows this.
Doctor_Who: “If she saw the world as it truly is,”
Aaaaand , of course, you’ve got the corner on what “truly is,”
amIright?
Especially as the Dr. Who from the series actually does consider himself significant. “*I’ve* put a lot of work into it.”
I have a handle on what truly is! Joyce’s universe was created by Willis, and so it conforms to his decisions on the structure of the world. That means that, based on my knowledge of Willis’s worldview, I can say with certainty that in Joyce’s universe the only god is Willis. And I’m pretty sure she doesn’t worship Willis, and I’m very sure that Willis doesn’t match of with the description of the god in Joyce’s bible. Except for the part about having angels of death at his beck and call; that much it gets right.
It’s been implied that, in-comic, D&MM is the creation and work of the in-comic David Willis. So it could be considered that D&MM is the inerrant word of Joyce’s omnipotent creator, passed through the fourth wall to his in-comic avatar, and so in joining the D&MM fandom, Joyce is in fact converting to her comic universe’s one true religion.
I just hope in-comic Willis doesn’t have to get nailed to a post to seal the deal.
OTOH, she’s one of the most significant people in this universe …
“I have a handle on what truly is! Joyce’s universe was created by Willis, ”
BINGO!
Sursum Ursa once did a video about this, and wow, the comments.
From the Agony Booth? Which video was that?
And elsewhere, yeah. And it was one of the Harry Potter Fandom trilogy of videos!
The third one specifically. Comments aren’t so bad there, I don’t remember where I was when I first saw it, maybe I’m just misremembering. But that is the video.
So Joyce has yet to discover what a strap-on actually is?
Shit, I need to finish that pic.
I look forward to seeing this.
And when you’re done, you and Yotomoe can compare strap-on drawings!
Either she hasn’t googled it yet, or her mind has repressed in order to preserve higher level brain functions.
she has higher level brain functions? I think the bible replaced most of those
She won’t find it with Google Safe Search “on”.
But she will find definition.
I really hope Joe is still there when she finds out. Or she finds out via Joe.
Oh, the irony.
Yeah isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?
Like ra-a-ain on your wedding day.
*opens mouth to speak*
…
*stops*
http://i.imgur.com/4u7XO10.gif
also http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/50072160/20508
We’re going to argue religion aren’t we?
I vote we argue ice cream flavors instead
Rocky Road, no question.
Nah, gotta be a two scoop cone with one of cookies and cream on top with a cookie dough on the bottom.
I say birthday cake, but that’s just me
Mmm, birthday cake.
I’m also fond of Mint Chocolate Chip. Put some hot fudge and marshmallow on top and mmmmmmmmm.
Oooo that just reminded me, a scoop of vanilla on top of a microwaved moon pie.
DON’T JUDGE ME!
Chocolate for the win!
I’ve never gotten the appeal of cookies and cream. I mean, I like Oreos just fine. But it’s just vanilla ice cream with Oreos in it. There are way more interesting flavors than that. (I’m with you on cookie dough, though.)
It helps that plain vanilla is one of my favourite flavours.
Agree
Favorite: A scoop of cinnamon ice cream with a spoonful of peanut butter.
That, or one of the not-normal flavors from a local ice cream place (like Dutch chocolate, with Oreos and brownie bits).
Cookie dough is probably my favorite ‘mainstream’ flavor.
(Oh crap, I’m an ice cream hipster now, aren’t I?)
I go to a fancy local-ingredient, season flavors all the time, 5 dollars for two scoops ice cream parlor, so I can’t even judge. Cookie dough is my favorite mainstream flavor, but I’d rather have something inventive and unusual any day of the week.
Id have to say that mint chocolate chip with brownie in it, or it would have to be vanilla with raspberries and pineapple mixd in
Cookie dough. Or Lemon and blueberries. Depends on the season.
I hear those ice cream bells, and I start to drool.
Mint chocolate chip, you heathens!
Agreed.
Mint chocolate SWIRL you philistine!
[not a fan of frozen chocolate bricks regardless of size]
You are literally Hitler.
Orange Swirl.
Chocolate.
Why is this even a question.
Personal favourite ice-cream flavours: Chocolate, Vanilla, Baci, Muskette, Banana, Pistachio, Coconut Rough, Truffle, Caramel…
Might be easier to ask, what flavors don’t you like?
Also, what is Coconut Rough? I like coconut.
Coconut Rough is chocolate with roasted coconut pieces.
http://i31.tinypic.com/9vcn6u.jpg
That sounds delicious, but I’m not a fan of coconut. As for the ice cream, combine raspberry swirl with cherry, strawberry, fudge ripple, and cheesecake. Chef don’t judge.
Rolo brand.
Yeah.
I have never understood how anyone can choose just one. Nearly all ice cream flavors are delicious.
I have that issue with almost anything else: books, movies, etc. But ice cream is a comfort food, and I know what comforts me the most, so that’s what I pick. But I rarely order it when I go out, saving it for particular times. I like to get new kinds of ice cream every time. So many flavors, almost all good (if not all to my taste).
I rarely eat ice cream – since I discovered frozen custard. Like heroin ice cream.
ice cream for the win.
I fail at links. It’s supposed to say “Speculoos” ice cream for the win, with speculoos being the link to an explanation of wtf it is for all those unfortunate enough to not know.
No! We’re going to argue Semantics!
“Then one one of us has to hurt one or all of us. Also, you’re a villain.”
We do that all the time in the comments anyway. Might as well do it in the comics.
Let’s agree to not argue about religion, shall we?
I’m not agreeing to anything!
I agree to not agree to anyone, but still want to dispute that my disagreement is somehow different and more valid than YOUR disagreement.
It would be much easier if all people were agnostics.
It would also be easier if all people were Scientologists. Unanimous agreement is easy.
What could there possibly to argue about?
Well, we could argue about how everything had gone downhill since the turn of the millennium. Or politics….but it’s not my cup of tea.
*nods* Earl Grey is pretty over-rated when it comes to tea.
Yeah, I prefer the stuff they serve where I’m from.
By the by, in my country, tea comes in two variants: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6191/6061603286_e55f5ffc8e.jpg
The one on the left is without milk and the one on the right is with milk.
You dare to contradict Jean-Luc Picard?
Yes since I rather go againt Picard in a fight than Janeway or Sisko.
Let’s see…Janeway is really a villainous dictator and you really don’t want to fuck with the Sisko. The dude punched Q like he owes him money. The Defiant is his motherfucking pimp hand.
A fan of SF Debris I see. ^_^
Yes…yes I am. ^_^
Eh, maybe a little bit. The advantage it has is that a cup of Earl Grey is always a good time. I don’t always want an English Breakfast or some variety of Green, but that’s just me.
For me at least Earl Grey tastes like someone took a cup of black tea and dunked one of those pine-tree car air-fresheners into it.
I… guess I can see that but it’s the one I grew up on so it is to me what orange pekoe is to many others.
Wait for it, its coming sooner or later it’s coming.
I’ll take “Flying Over My Head” for $200, Alex.
you’re joking right?
Of course I’m joking, I’m not on Jeopardy.
congratulations, you hit the daily double, how much would you like to wager
I’ll wager strap-on.
Yes, I know that isn’t an amount.
“You answered ‘Threeve,’ a combination of three and five. And you wagered… Texas with a dollar sign.”
Simply Stunning.
Oh my G-O-S-H.
Oh boy, here we go.
Oh. Oh, no. Oh, honey, no. No, honey, no. Just…..no.
Waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Ohhh Joyce. I just want to pat her on the head.
I just want to put her in a german suplex.
Arm bars everywhere!
Hold number 345: ARMBAR!
Is this where Austin 3:16 comes in?
There are a lot of characters pissing you off lately aren’t there?
Naw. I just really like German Suplexes.
Yeah, but people don’t like being put in German Suplexes.
I just want to slip her birth control until she has a few more years of exposure to Dorothy.
Me too. A smack across the back of the head is a kind of pat, right?
“Tonight I’m going to investigate this “Slash Fiction” thing! Everyone tells me I’ll love it!”
Soon she’ll be writing erotic fan-fiction shipping Billie and Walky and herself and Sal’s Bike.
“I’ll also would like to investigate in this German coffee commercial that people had been raving about”
… I kind of want to know what your comment is referencing. I also kind of don’t.
… The Folgers incest one? Or…
Wait…there’s a Folgers incest commercial? That never came up in my research. Though I do found a Yog Soggoth McDonalds commercial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZnqBL6iYjA
Is that the Folgers incest…or Yog Soggoth. After that one screamer incident….I’m hesitant to click on the link.
Folgers incest. No great old ones, but the way the brother and sister look at each other *is* pretty unsettling.
Oh, thank you. I’m still traumatized with the German coffee commercial…and Pickle Surprise.
I hated this coffee commercial.
Who’s the blonde person in the first panel? The one on the far left? I feel like I should know her…
Possibly Agatha, but since she’s not tagged it might just be a coincidence.
Just your everyday extra.
Miiiiight be leslie, if we assume that she had a sweater to bring home or a dark blue backpack?
If it was Leslie, Willis would have added her name to the tags even if she said nothing and only a bit of arm or hair was showing.
Also Leslie isn’t golden blonde as this girl is, and is more platinum? blonde.
She’s not tagged. Given that Willis tags random Transformers silhouettes on characters’ dressers, that suggests she’s nobody we know.
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
There really is nothing to add to this
Shhhhhhhhh shhhhhh shhhhh
literally the best advice possible today
As far as I am aware fandom has not led to outright wars that tore a continent apart.
Clearly you haven’t been paying attention to the right fandoms.
I once saw a national organization torn apart because of a debate over how wide a character’s belt should be cosplayed. One camp wanted it to be 2 1/2 inches, the other wanted it to be 3 inches. There was blood, screaming, war. It was fun.
Superwholock may be the second coming.
-ducks-
Yeah, there’s even an inter fandom war going on.
Maybe not continents but vast majority of people yes, try insulting any popstar boy toy under the age of 21 on any mass media website like facebook,twitter, or YouTube I promise you their anyoing ass teen age girl fan base will be on your ass like hell fire.
Oh thats a nother thing did I say fan base, I mean fan CULTS
Take the person who said a One Direction guys died on April fools day, he was basically mauled to death by one Direction fangirls via Twitter.
“As far as I am aware fandom has not led to outright wars that tore a continent apart.”
Not yet, anyway.
I don’t know, the Katara/Zuko shippers from The Last Airbender series seemed hellbent on creating a conflict worse than the Fire Nation’s.
You must not’ve been here for the Joel/Mike Wars. Dark times, those.
Have you met the Star Trek fandom?
Oh, wait, you mean aside from christian fandom.
I hear what you’re saying and I agree.
Fandoms DO need more conviction.
That’s ‘cos no-one has tried translating Dexter & Monkey Monster from Archaic Americanese into Modern Scots yet. Just you wait 500 years ’til commoners are finally allowed to own a copy, then you’ll see
Thank you, Willis. I understand what you meant. The comments for this one will probably be interesting to say the least. And I will be sitting back and enjoying the chaos.
Want some popcorn while you wait?
Oh Willis, what are doing.
You know what I mean
This was inevitable the moment he created DoA! Joyce as the character she is in a world not shaped around her worldview. Which is to say you’ve had years of warning; if you’re not braced for impact by now (or raring to go) there’s no help for you.
Shots fired
I hope she’s not talking about episode, “Rags to Misses” That episode felt chaotic on a whole and was far too dependent on running gags. I feel like the new seasons aren’t welcoming to the newer fan base and rely too much on older material.
Speaking of episodes, what happened to the guy who wanted to catalog all of the Dexter and Monkey Master episodes?
Whereas “Book ‘Em, Dyno” depended on too many references to shows kids shouldn’t be familiar with due to MPAA ratings.
Dude, the entire Ape Wars arc is pretty much a must see for older and newer fans.
I know I’m going to invite some flames here, but I really thought the Ape Wars arc was overrated. I know! Pathos and drama and plot and freaking Cerebus syndrome. It really overreached itself by trying to prove it wasn’t just a kids show.
Say what you will about the Ape Wars arc, it handles the characterization really well. Heck, I still rank Jet Zebra’s heroic sacrifice as one of the most touching moments in animated history.
If you can call that animation, did you see how many times they reused that walk cycle animation for Dexter. When are they gonna give the budget to this cartoon that it deserves?
It’s just that walk cycle that is repeated. I heard the reason they did that was as a homage to something….I don’t know.
Yeah I think a lot of people start having this realization somewhere in their mid-teens and then actually fully have it several years down the line.
Haha awesome. Now to divert people’s attentions, what fandom have you been acquainted or reacquainted with lately? I’ll start off: Twin Peaks. Man, what I wouldn’t give to live in a cozy quaint Pacific NW town with the occasional supernatural going-on.
What I wouldn’t give to pilot my own Super Robot or shoot energy beams from my hands.
I’ve seen one episode of Twin Peaks. I’d like to see more, but it’ll have to wait until I cross other things off my list. I’m having a lovely time with the Hannibal fandom. With the exception of when people get killed off, everyone is charming and lovely.
Yeah…but what’s the deal with The Lodge?
? I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Joe, not givin’ a sheeit.
Joe’s thinking about how adorable Joyce looks while simultaneously fearing the physical abuse she might shower on him if he mentions it. It’s sad, really…
More like “Yeah, okay, I’m not going to touch that one.”
Let’s be real here: anybody that actually would be offended by sentiments like the comic shows here have probably already been driven away from Dumbing of Age, as it says stuff like this pretty much every single chance it can get. Willis just keeps beating that dang horse, without bothering to check its pulse or anything. Phrases like “preaching to the choir” come to mind.
I wouldn’t agree with that, the beating a dead horse part that is. This comic both shows Joyce continue to find her comfortable place in university and Walky learning to keep his mouth shut, even if it is at Dorothy’s prompting.
Ya I feel as if Willis probably drove away 20% of his reader with that Discussion on racism we had that one time and on how many people read this comic that’s probably a lot, which is part of the reason why he shut down the comment section that one time.
I don’t remember that discussion! Now i’m curious, what did Willis say?
Nothing Willis said, its what the rest of us said through out that night and the next two strips after it.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2013/comic/book-4/01-the-only-dope-for-me-is-you/dorkyeye/
I did not drive away 20% of my readers. My readership is larger now than then by a few thousand people.
Beating a horse? Dude, Joyce’s struggle with her religion versus her life is kind of the central conceit of her character and probably the comic itself. It is WHY I am writing this thing, because that struggle is extremely personal and important to me. If the subject’s going to annoy you I’d go read some other damn comic that isn’t about a fundamentalist Christian going to a secular school for the first time.
I’m not saying that I’m against the cornerstone of the whole comic, it’s just repeating the same punchline over again (Joyce believes this silly thing, because of Religion) gets stale after reading it for years on end. We’ve figured out Garfield doesn’t like Mondays by now, thanks.
I’m not saying “stop talking about Joyce and religion”, because that’s a big part of the reason I’m here, I’m saying stop recycling the same joke, but with a different twist each time. You can make original jokes about transforming robots for years without it getting stale.
And no, I’m not going to stop reading your comic because I made a complaint (singular) and you got all mad. I’m going to sit here enjoying your comic for a long damn time, and now I can say I do it partly out of spite.
If “saying something about religion and being wrong” is just one joke, with no possible subfacets, then, wow, that is not a definition of “same joke” that I share, at all. It might be one of the most anti-comedy theories I’ve heard in a long time.
Yeah, that’s sort of like saying every JD daydream in Scrubs is one joke, or every prank Jim played on Dwight in The Office is one joke.
“Man, when’s Letterman going to stop doing that “Top Ten” joke? We get it, there’s ten of them, get some new material.”
I dunno if those are great examples. I mean, the “joke” of Joyce’s religion and the reactions of those around her to it is constantly moving forward and evolving based on new sets of stimuli, whereas the jokes you mention are largely pretty samey and stagnant.
If you generalize enough, every joke becomes the same joke. The trick is to not overgeneralize. The jokes here seem fresh enough to me.
Also, enjoying it out of spite? That sounds a lot like not enjoying it but reading it anyway to me. However you wanna spend your time, though…
Oh no, I very much enjoy the strip. It’s a highlight of my day. And being told to stop reading it entirely because I said something negative peeves me off. Somebody telling me that just makes me want to keep on enjoying it regardless of what they think. The fact that it’s the author is irrelevant.
Somebody telling me they’re happy I’m mad just makes me want to throw them in the spam folder.
You are a bigger man than me Willis, I’d wanna shove them in a trash compacter :I
Cooler heads will prevail here. For both you and Count Dracula. He said his piece, and you said yours. I would let it go.
I fear making you mad because you wield the power of the ban button. Plus that army of attack hamsters I know you’ve been training.
Man, why is it that so many comedians are making that joke where we think something is one thing but it’s another thing? Change it up a little, guys!
“ooh, I love your comic, but please stop using its central theme as a basis for punchlines”.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense XD
And thank you for that. If it wasn’t for your comic, I probably wouldn’t interact with my family at all, but since… like, halfway through It’s Walky!, Joyce storylines have helped me put my relationship with my crazier southern baptist relatives into perspective.
I sometimes feel like Joyce phrases the things she says as some sort of dare.
“Go on Walky, say something. See what happens”.
Odd question for Willis. It’s Walky, Walky is a theist or some sort while DOA Walky is a atheist, right? I was always confused by that.
Any time Walkyverse Walky’s beliefs have been brought up, he’s been pretty atheist.
Then again, Walkyverse Walky had been a Godlike being. Maybe he found out about the truth of the universe or something.
Walkyverse Walky does not believe in God. Which makes his refusal to use His name in vain pretty weird, but whatcha gonna do.
That’s something I’ve personally seen quite commonly among atheists and agnostics raised in fairly stringent Christian households. That said, IIRC Walkyverse Walky wasn’t from such a background, so it’s still kinda odd unless it was the kinda thing he’d learned not to do because of the community his family lived in and the kids he associated with.
to be honest I lways assumed he did it for Joyce’s sake , Especially earlier on when he was reunited with her
Eh, before I was Xtian I didn’t swear or use God’s name in vain, now that I converted to Xtianity I do so. It’s just weird morals people grow up with.
What is Xtianity?
what is xmas?
Besides “annoying”?
“X” is an abbreviation for Christ. Modern days it’s mostly used for Xmas, but from the 11thish century to the early 1900s it was used more commonly (For things like Xtopher (Christopher), Xene (Christine), and Xtianity (Christianity)). I still use it because it saves time and space, both of which didn’t really work here because I’m typing this long reply, but hey, I love babbling about History.
Yeah, I thought it was hilarious [not really] that so-called Christians complain that heathans are “crossing Him out” with Xmas, when that was “Xians” doing that in the first place.
But why ruin a perfectly good argument with FACTS
This because Χ (Chi) is the first letter of ΧΡΙΣΤΟΣ (Christos).
I know of some atheists who refuse to do such because they think it’s silly to swear by fictitious beings they don’t believe in. In much the same way one doesn’t use the words “unicorn” or “pixies” in vain.
I am totally going to start using “unicorn” and “pixies” in vain now. I feel like it will really help bring out my inner gay.
I’m atheist, and I try not to because I feel it gives in to the idea that I’m atheist TOWARD the Christian god, instead of disbelieving in all gods that have ever been and are currently worshipped.
Thanks, Willis. I appreciate you taking the time to answer.
I’m an atheist and it wierds me out that I DO swear using the word “god!”, because dammit as an atheist I should have relegated that word into mythical obscurity by now. Also, “dammit”.
Try tabernacle instead
[I figure “god as swear” has to do with common usage–that is, “everyone else is doing it”]
Quebec has the worst swears ever. One of the guys in my gaming group’s from Montreal, and… it’s really difficult to take someone seriously when they’re mad when their idea of hard-hitting profanity is “chalice”, “tabernacle” and “host”. It’s almost as bad as Joyce’s wrongswears.
“Tabernack!” at least has a okay ring to it, but it’s still no competition for English’s harsh Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, or even France-French obscenities.
Eh, whatever. “Goddammit” is a great cuss.
It’s a bit longer than the most, so there’s plenty of time to make it really land. You can do it all at once when you’re just irritated (“gahdamit”), the bit where you slowly build up volume as you do it when you just can’t take it any more (“god-DAMN-IIIIIT”!), you can break it up into two words for that special one-two punch (“God! Dammit!”), or you can really just let it linger to express that real combination of anger and resignation (“God… dammit”).
YEAP. Once you allow your mind to really think on how things became “canon” in the Bible and then compare that to Star Wars EU canon… well anyone who remains a firm believer is a stronger person than I. Or delusional, but I’ll leave that up in the air.
Oh, man, Joyce. Good luck in your introduction to fandom.
This “Joyce please” moment was brought to you by Joe not giving a f***.
Willis – I love your honesty.
Not touching that one.
“I’m going to tell her” “Don’t you dare!” “Well somebody should tell her.”
Wait… she researched a fandom and didn’t come out morally enraged or scarred? Every fandom of everything ever always has at least ONE “super special type of perverse” fan that writes and/or draws really twisted shit. Pretty sure google images would have bombarded her with alien x ape porn after the first line or two of fanart… And there’d probably be at least one creepypasta.
I can only figure D&MM fandom doesn’t have Brony-equivalents and/or their Google Safe Search actually works.
[resists including descriptions of things that come up despite Safe Search]
Except Monkey Master, being an ape, automatically gets thrown into the ‘furry’ category. So……………….
Unrelated note, but it makes me sad that the only thing representative of the MLP fandom is Bronies, and that the only thing that seems to be representative of Bronies are the perverse and beligerent elements of the fandom.
I mean, other fandoms contain those elements too; why aren’t they as vilified? Is it because that these people are defiling what is perceived by society to be the essense of girliness and femininity? Is it that they’re being beligerent about it and making themselves out as jerks?
There’s a lot I can say on the subject, but since this isn’t an appropriate place to discuss it, I’ll end off by saying that I suppose it’s just an example of the adage “One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch”.
Yeah…but it also reflects humans as well. I always believe that these kinds of people are the reason why we can never have nice things..there’s always that one asshole who ruins it for everybody. Remember the times where we have something that is pretty damn good, and then either some asshole or assholes who for some damn reason muck it up for everyone else and we can’t even escape them for they are everywhere and in every aspect of our lives.
My take on the MLP ‘brony’ fandom and why it’s so villified is because it did a series of progressive steps towards something really, when you think about it, is just all sorts of fucked up.
1. MLP is made with little girls of a certain age bracket in mind… as the toys were. Not that Lauren Faust ever had a problem with boys liking it, but her target audience is girls. Little girls. Girls ages 5-12 if I remember right…. But yes. It’s a girls series for girls for the intent of teaching girls lessons about friendship and overcoming trials in a way that appeals to girls. Girls.
2. Guys start liking the series and cut their little niche into the fandom by calling themselves a cutesy title ‘brony’. Harmless fun. Just a bunch of guys who like to watch a cartoon that’s made for girls because… they like it. MLP creator has no desire or inclination to cater to them because they fall outside of her target demographic, and it starts off with bronies being cool with that, because they know they’re watching a TV show made for girls.
3. Bronies get comfortable in their niche and some members start doing what happens in every fandom… thinking about, discussing, and fantasizing about it in ways that were not intended by the creator. Some of ends up being completely opposite of what the series intended, like the animated youtube parody videos where Pinkie Pie violently kills all the other ponies because she’s the happiest character and happy characters are always psychotic joke… and some ends up being sexual, either because “lolololol rule 34” joke or because the people doing that genuinely get off on “pony porn”… Ignorable at this stage… annoying, sometimes disturbing, but ignorable. MLP is still made for girls.
4. Some bronies start thinking that since they watch the series so religiously, buy merchandise, or do something as inane as post a billion times on official forums, that the series needs to start catering to THEM and the adult bronies want adult themes, such as violence and sex. They start getting loud about it and shoving their weight around by producing more “fan content” that is violent and/or pornographic… While Lauren Faust and the other producers of the show still show NO inclination towards catering to these people, their behavior starts affecting the show itself by managing to make the number of ACTUAL LITTLE GIRLS who are fans of the show shy away from the series both in terms of watching the show or participating in online venues for it. Girls are actually getting scared off or grossed out by the things they find on the internet related to MLP to where it actually turns them off from the show entirely, so the shows ratings for their target demographic are declining. While a bunch of adult men may keep the ratings up and buying merchandise, the target demographic is being pushed out and scared off.
So… yeah. Imagine if you had a little sister or female relative and she was given a treehouse for her and her friends to enjoy. Her and her friends have fun in it for awhile, but then grown adult men find the treehouse and decide that they like it too. These adult men start hanging out in the treehouse and decide to make themselves at home. They hook up TVs with consoles and start hanging up posters… then start playing extremely violent videogames, spouting off foul language, watching porn and masturbating, drinking, getting in fights, and their posters all end up being violent or pornographic in some way. Your little sister/female relative and her friends end up being intimidated and scared away from their treehouse, even though it’s still THEIRS and was meant for them, but they understandably don’t want to be around a bunch of grown men being violent, vulgar, and showing them content that is completely inappropriate to her and her friends.
So… yeah. That’s just my conclusion on bronies. I know a few guys who are bronies and are disgusted with what the fandom has become and the stigma it has now, but as with everything… the cool and moderate people are always drowned out by the loud and obnoxious few.
Because almost the ENTIRE MLP fandom is a misaimed fandom, I would wager. I mean, sure, there’s always “that guy” in every other fandom, but with the bronies it’s like 95% of them.
It’s actually a point that Willis brings up in relation to his own hobby all the time in Shortpacked… yes, there are adults that collect toys, but the majority of the consumers and the target audience are actual children, and that’s sort of as it should be. Failing to understand that as a member of the misaimed (i.e. adult) portion of the hobby kinda makes you a jerk.
I will leave what this implies about Christians arguing over bible interpretation, especially old-testament interpretation, as an extremely easy exercise for the reader.
The MLP fandom isn’t really anything special. It’s just the latest annoyingly loud and inescapable fandom. A new one crops up every few years, I believe the last one was Harry Potter, it was everywhere all the time. Twilight was similarily everywhere but it was more of a hatedom that was the loud ones.
When one of these fandoms goes huge your feelings on the subject plays a big deal. If you like it then you don’t quite notice how pervasive it is and maybe wish the better less obsessive fans were recognised as the majorities. If you don’t like the fandom you notice how it’s absolutely everywhere and each mention just makes you madder.
As a Brony, what bothers me is that the negative side of the fandom gets all the attention, despite the positive things the fandom has done. As far as I know, there isn’t a single member of the fandom that the irony of the situation that they are a fan of a show designed for small girls. Hell that whole thing was one of the reasons I avoided giving it a chance for so long. Then I saw some of the creative works of the fandom, a few music videos t original songs inspired by the show. I hadn’t seen that in any other fandom. SO I gave it a shot. [the show having Lauren Faust of powerpuff girls and foster home for imaginary friends fame helped too.]
Unfortunately in the Brony Fandom, we have a mix between, true fans who actually LIKE the show, troll fans who just want to inflate the worst possible parts of the fandom mentality weather they honestly like it or not, hipster fans who I just feel are only riding this boat because its the in thing of the moment., and perverse fans, who may or may not be true fans, but are responsible for the need of a mature content filter that works on google search.
Mind you every fandom is plagued by some of the same things. Sonic the Hedgehog, Danny Phantom, Kim Possible, Inuyasha, the more popular something is the more positive, AND negative things can be found in its fandom.
I think people need to chill out of about the fandom hate, except twilight, that was a bastardization of everything that is werewolf/vampire. vampires dont sparkle in sunlight, they friggin BURN, this was established YEARS ago.
Pink being a girls color is reletively recent, it was originally the color of little boys.
But, unlike virtually everything else, MLP–and MLP:FIM in specific–is both DIRECTLY TARGETED at young girls [with a concession for adult viewers who may or may not happen to be cis-male] AND fairly well-known. It’s practically impossible to find someone* who isn’t at least aware of MLP and, thanks to the cookie-cutterness of the characters, able to recognize it on sight, while even Disney characters might leave you wondering whether they’re Disney [or merely Disney-owned, in many cases].
*I guess if you leave first-world society, then MAYBE.
MLP is also the most, ah, “corruptible” of the franchises you mentioned, if we get into that ick factor… I thought about adding more to this thought, but =|
Eh, I don’t think people should hate Twilight just because the author decided on different rules for the species. We should hate it because it’s a badly written piece of garbage.
+1
“As a Brony, what bothers me is that the negative side of the fandom gets all the attention, despite the positive things the fandom has done.”
LOL, look at the way Atheists view Christians; even on this forum. Only the negative side is held up as representative. Only the negative arguments get kudos.
But why is the negative side of the pony wars placed on guys?
http://www.alexsguide.net/tag/ponies/
Twinkle-what!?
Is being morally outraged *really* an appropriate response to fanart or erotic fiction created by folks with different sexual predilections?
It’s not canon and it’s clearly not for you. So why bother getting upset about it?
Again, this is Joyce we’re talking about. She’s very easily scandalized.
To be honest I’ve generally found that fandoms are surprisingly tame and self-policing.
But of course it’s possible I’m just missing things that others find offensive. Or maybe I’m just hanging around the wrong fandoms
Actually I think you just have the right idea about fandoms and content. You don’t have to like it, but you also don’t have to beat them down for what they like.
I never said it was appropriate. I was making a commentary on Joyce and what her reaction would be if she found Dexter x Monkey Master porn, because despite being cheery and generally in control of herself to where she can have an Atheist friend who has sex and doesn’t have aspirations of being a housewife with children, she’s STILL rather judgey and personally intolerant of things that don’t align with her faith. Yes, again, she is friends with Dorothy, but she likely still thinks Dorothy is going to hell for not believing in God and being pure. She just values her friendship here and NOW enough to just not get into deep religious discussion where that things like that pop up, and to face down her parents when they were demanding she never speak to Dorothy again. She’s learning, and getting better in tiny amounts, but old habits die hard… and religious habits are like cockroaches in terms of that.
Bronies are annoying because they felt the need to create a label/subculture centered around their being male fans of a show targeted towards girls. The only reason they’d do this is to distance themselves from the “girliness” of the show, sorta like how insecure guys who show affection for other men feel the need to use “no homo” as a disclaimer. It’s inherently sexist/androcentrist.
One rotton apple spoils the barrel. But I get your message, I think.
My favorite ice cream is pralines and cream, but caramel and vanilla, and strawberry, are decent too. Ice cream is just good.
I was always taught it was “the whole bunch” back in kindergarten, hehe.
But apples don’t grow in bunches…that’s bananas….
Bronies get a bad rap because of Cloppers. Cloppers vary from the writing of novel length deep romance fanfics to that POV flash of Chrysalis.
You can’t define a fandom by the works of people like this, but its also hard to separate the good from the bad. There may be many subtle levels you haven’t considered.
I’ve never really understood people’s problems with cloppers, or their various equivalents in other fandoms. So people like to write/draw pornified versions of fictional characters. So what? Don’t look.
It’s the angrily, belligerently obsessive people in the fandoms that generally keep me a fan on the outside. … Like the (apparent) majority of Bronies.
The main problem people have with cloppers is that the subject in general is ponies, and generally speaking, masturbating to animals is seen as really gross because they aren’t human. But aren’t they? The ponies in MLP are, by all other accounts, pretty human, with human speech and human-like societies, human emotions and human thoughts and feelings. It’s just that they have the outward appearance of a pony. But if they represent certain personalities that appeal to you, what does it matter about the way they look?
Basically, it’s all specism. Never mind that they, for all intents and purposes, are self-aware, intellectual creatures capable of complex thoughts and emotions; they look like animals so having sexual fantasies about them makes you disgusting.
And of course, this argument is putting aside the fact that it’s a show meant for little girls, because that’s already a given. But it isn’t really; not after very adult references like The Big Lebowski characters appearing in a shot (with The Jesus, no less), or a scene remake from the movie Trainspotting.
Bah, this got me rambling, and you can clearly see where I stand on the issue, so I’m just gonna stop right here. XD
The issue with beastiality in general is *you can’t get a verifiable approval of consent* from the creature.
I’m pretty sure anyone who’s into that regardless will swear up and down that intelligent animals would negate that ick factor because they can TOTALLY say yes.
I strongly suspect that a lot of the issue with bestiality throughout the centuries is similar to the issue with sex toys; if you’re sexing something that ain’t human, you’re clearly doing it for nonprocreative reasons, you sicko you.
My biggest issue is that the ponies act like and are generally considered to be about 10-13 year old girl ponies. This is emphasized in the “Equestria girls” subshow that they’ve come out with, where the ponies see their more human like selves. These selves are little girls. So the creation of pornography around characters that act like and are meant to be prepubescent girls freaks me out a little.
They ARE fictional, and that makes a difference, but many people consider Lolita to be a disturbing book and she is a fictional character too. It makes us uncomfortable to think of grown men preferring the characteristics of children in sexual arenas.
I made reference in another post to the MLP fandom being like a treehouse made specifically for a little girl and her friends… only for some random adult guys to decide they like it and essentially take it over with the “adult themes” of violence and sex by playing violent games, watching porn, etc… How fair is it to the little girls of MLP to have grown men pushing their way into something made for them and trying to make it cater to THEIR wants and whims, to the point where the girls no longer feel welcome, or even safe, to try and enjoy it like they were supposed to? Do a google search sometime on MLP and take a look at all the ‘adult’ content that fills up the first page. Safe search might help weed that stuff out, but even that’s not foolproof. Imagine being a parent and seeing your daughter wading through hundreds of images of “pony porn” while she was just innocently looking for some fanart for a desktop background… or imagine being the girl that just wants to find pretty and cool MLP pics and ends up with page upon page of Rainbow Dash eating out Fluttershy. Unfortunately that’s what’s happening with it, and the target demographic (little girls) is starting to decline despite the show, for what it was made for, being good.
Finally, a strip where someone makes a smug face and no one mentions Faz in the comments.
… Shit.
Joyce, Council of Nicaea.
Council of Nicaea, Joyce.
Joyce needs to sign up for a history of religion class without realizing it won’t be limited to her sect.
A little tooooo ironic…
When I went to my significant other’s church a couple weeks ago (I’m a lasped Catholic, but I went to Catholic school and am well-read in the Bible just from my childhood), the Priest homily included whole sections talking about how each of the gospels are a different man’s interpretation of the life of Jesus and how interpreting them in different ways is absolutely essential – that it shouldn’t be taken literally. He also mentioned that Mary and Martha are two of Jesus’ greatest students according to John but that the Church and Christian religions in general downplay their importance (Mary Magdalene’s in particular) because they’re women and sexism is a thing that still exists in religion. It was the most progressive, feminist homily I ever heard and I was actually grinning at the end because my god, that priest got it. Just the “we have to take the gospels with a grain of salt because they were written from the point of few of fallible men” was awesome.
Today’s comic is ‘effin brilliant, Willis. BRILLIANT. (For reals, no irony or sarcasm meant)
(Resisting the urge to get into the ice cream and Earl Grey arguments . . .)
I’m Christian, and even I know the awkwardness of her statement. For me, it’s non-fiction, but I know that it’s written and translated by people who are flawed, have their own views, and write what they believe is the most accurate that doesn’t conflict with their views.
If you ever need an example, try looking up the dead sea scrolls, and the books that didn’t make the cut for the bible because of their controversial content.
Yeah, there was a fascinating article I read back when the CofE was voting on female bishops, about how the arguments against from the KJV were based on … well, Hanlon’s Razor says I should call them mistranslations, but it’s interesting how there didn’t seem to be any mistranslations that could be read as giving women more power.
On the other hand, I was once involved in an internet argument with someone who insisted that every single alteration of the Bible was divinely inspired … up to the version he had. Then I think it stopped.
That… sounds exactly like fandom. “All versions of this thing I like that were created after I was a kid are awful!”
I have access to three different versions of the bible. King James, Good News, and The Good Leader. Two of them have translated a book of the bible so it reads as erotic poetry with graphic sex acts. The third has translated the same book as gentle romantic poetry suitable for small children. Guess which one I think Joyce reads.
And its exactly because she keeps saying things like this that I occasionally want to smack her upside the head. You know, in a “bad dog, newspaper” sort of way.
The think is, Walky wasn’t actually going to point out the immensely high likelihood of the Bible also being ‘fiction written by flawed mortal men’, rather, he was about to chastise Joyce for speaking such filthy blasphemy against the Gospel that is Dexter and Monkey Master.
Joyce’s brother is transgendered, which is going to be fun but I’d like to make it even weirder. I’d love to see Leslie Bean get with Joyce’s mother because she’s a closeted lesbian. It would be a great reversal of Leslie’s own history in the Walkyverse and also we could see truly EPIC fallout.
Also, I kind of want Robin to be evil in this universe.
WRONG, Joyce’s SISTER is TRANSGENDER.
Thank you, Sporky.
You are absolutely correct and I apologize for making a stupid statement which is as stupid as stupid can be without creating a vortex of stupid which can rip me apart in my own stupidity as it is my hope will happen to the stupidest of stupids.
Joyce’s sister is awesome.
Unwittingly hitting nails on heads, our Joycie.
So, what exactly do Christians think happened when the Bible was written? Its well established that its basically a Frankenstenian patchwork of different texts, did God posses the guys who wrote it or what?
Christians, it should be noted, are not a monolithic group and Joyce’s particular brand of Christianity does not represent more than 1% of the world’s believers at best. The vast majority of us don’t believe in Creationalism. Jesus taught in parable, so does the Bible.
Good point. Too bad the media is so filled with noisy morons who not only take the Bible literally but also have to inflict their backward opinions on the rest of us…
Making up numbers to try to defray the crazy is a little bit silly. Let’s look at some real ones, shall we?
A 2011 Gallup poll found that roughly 3 in 10 Americans believed in the literal truth of the bible. A 2012 Gallup poll found that roughly 46% of respondents believed that humans were created directly, in their present state, by God, within the last 10,000 years.
IIRC, Gallup’s methodology is a little outdated. They use robo-dialers that aren’t allowed to call cell phones (because it’s against federal law) and thus they can only reach those people with a landline to call. Skews the results. That’s part of the reason they consistently showed Romney in the lead during the 2012 US Presidential election.
Gallup also does internet polling, which gets around that pesky cell phone law. I know this because I’m on Gallup’s internet list.
Wait. You’re on a list? Like, it’s not random? That brings up a whole lot of other issues.
Nope, not random. You have to volunteer, or like me, be volunteered, in order to get the surveys. Who gets the surveys off the various lists is random.
I just thought of a way to inflate my approval rating.
Wait, I thought that was why you decided to join the Autobots. Now I’m confused.
It might take bit more, I’ve had some PR issues in the past.
You realize that a single poll is not a representation of an entire major religion with over 700 different sects, right?
Not to praise Gallup, but the number of sects or the majority of the religion has no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of a poll that is about beliefs and not (directly) about sects and religions.
You would have been better off pointing out the poll specifically talks about Americans, which is of little use when talking about the percentage of people in the world who are Christian. Especially considering that Americans are notoriously backwards religiously, especially for a country without a state religion.
Brings to mind a set of tweets from Ryan Estrada:
* When I worked for Citi, I dealt with Gallup numbers every day, learned how they’re gathered, and learned they’re bullcrap. Never trust ‘em.
* I saw someone lose their bonus because Gallup ranked them the worst after surveying one customer who was talking about a different person.
* The feedback was “The service was terrible. I’m glad that second agent fixed it, she was amazing.” Gallup marked it against the 2nd agent.
* Every time I see Gallup poll numbers affecting the outcome of major world events I cry a little.
If we were to go by a very quick and dirty estimation of 40% of the USA as creationist, which is the statistic I hear thrown around the most, and assume a rough amount of 2.2 billion christians in the world, American creationists alone would account for about 5.5% percent of the world’s believers. Mind you, I realise creationists aren’t a monolithic group either.
Hell, even the Catholic Church (no bastion of progressiveness–at least lately) doesn’t take the Bible literally and believes in evolution. A lot of fundamentalist ideas are peculiarly American phenomenon. Then again, our nation WAS settled by the people England thought were too weird to allow to remain in Europe. I say this as a Presbyterian, a church which was started by one of the meanest nastiest Christian fanatics around–and which is now very liberal.
Hahaha – it took me a couple of seconds to realize what Joyce said. I love that statement – irony anybody?
AHahaha! Love this so much! <3
Personally, I’ve always found the fleshlings smart enough to worship me to be perfectly reasonable. I love my fans and treat them like any other minion.
Depending on what sect of Christianity you’re talking about, some of them actually do acknowledge that much of the Bible is clearly, shall we say, colorful myths and exaggerations due to being stories passed through oral tradition by men, and finally written down by men, and men back then had a tendency to believe in some pretty wild stuff. Back in Catholic school I recall them using the phrase “inspired by God” rather than “literal word of God” to describe the Bible, the point being that the moral lessons were important, and believing in the exact events themselves not so much.
This refers especially to the Old Testament. Stuff in the New Testament tends to be more subtle, plus it was written down much sooner after the events of Jesus’s life compared to the Old Testament scripture.
Ignore Dorothy, Walky. Go ahead, say it, please.
Pretty much every theologian I’ve ever met have said the same thing. The Bible, whether inspired by God or not, was written by mortal men detailing events that took place decades at best, centuries at most before they were put to paper. Centuries of oral repetition where every retelling would add a little to the story.
Yeah, that’s the really weird thing about the Bible-as-science-textbook thing. It’s not just terrible science, it’s equally terrible theology. It’s an anti-modernist movement that’s 100% modernist in its approach.
On a completely unrelated note, look how cute she is in that pink hoodie!
I’m way late, but here ya go, relevant College Humor video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNtnN_DiP3o
Just wanted to say that the last panel of this strip is probably the best of any I’ve seen you do DW. The way you convey the three characters all interacting (or just acting in Joyce’s case I suppose) really comes alive. Well done sir, well done indeed!
Nooo Walky, noooo.