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Maybe he knows but isn’t going to be a dick about it? While they may not be supportive of her sexuality, the Browns know Becky well, and presumably care about her.
This is my take. If he still thought she was straight he would be smiling in panel 1 instead of “not running my face right now while I figure out how I feel and what I want to do”.
Mom pretty obviously knew what was going on, by the convo with Joyce. I can’t see her keeping it from Joyce’s dad. And that’s why this comic judo-chopped me right in the feels. “Oh, of course. Always, of course.” No hesitation, no waffling. A declaration of unconditional support. I know he holds views I consider to be tragically monstrous, but right at this moment… Love that man.
Basically He has prob watch Becky grow up. She is like a sister to Joyce, in his eyes. So He is pleased to see her. He doesn’t fully endorse or agree with her chocies, but unlike her actual father isn’t a c*ntwhistle.
“Care about her” doesn’t necessarily mean “are willing to accept/ignore her sexuality”. It could also mean anything from “thinks it’s a phase she’ll grow out of” to “thinks Ross had the right idea but didn’t implement it very well”.
I always kinda felt that I should’ve been more into B5 as I love SF so much, but I was am and always will be a Star Trek guy (well, Trek second…Doctor Who first! :D)
I only ever fully saw two whole episodes of Babylon 5, and they probably did not help matters any for me, as the two eps in question were “Babylon Squared” and “Deconstruction of Falling Stars”, arguably two of the most confusing episodes of the whole effin’ series.
Even though I’ve just made the argument on the basis that induction cannot be assumed in all universes, and we can’t show a contradiction based on extrapolation from the future to the past.
I defend myself: “there’s” means “there is.” Obviously, this cannot be in the present, because it’s tomorrow. Therefore, it is a general statement across all times.
No I suspect it’s going to be Joyce’s mother that detonates. I previous encounters she’s seemed the strident one, Joyce’s dad however seems to possess the quality otherwise known as tact.
I’m predicting Hank is going to be a “oh, yeah, they’re wrong, but, y’know, it’s just way too much effort to actually engage with them / try to protect those I care about, when I can just victim blame and/or seem better by contrast later” type.
Pretty awesome to be one-on-one with. But in a genuinely awful interaction with someone else, entirely useless at best, awkwardly supportive of the party-he-knows-is-wrong-but-also-kind-of-in-charge at worst.
I might or might not be projecting a lot from my own family >_>
Anyway, yay Hank! And yay Becky for knowing him well!
At this point in storyline things must become slightly better before really going downhill!
Which will happen in La Porte, i suppose. Well, highest point in La Porte is 957 feet above sea level, so downhill trips there are going to end on the ground soon!
You know, until I was eight I thought that a bigot was a type of bread, akin to a baguette or a bagel or a biscuit. So you’re not as far off as you thought.
He helped raise Joyce as the fundie we know and love, and might have been the one going “why are you friends with an atheist, let us pray”, so I wouldn’t go as far as totally sane. Core of decency, maybe.
But he also helped raise her to be the compassionate and loving person she is. This is something I didn’t think about yesterday, but it’s important to remember. At her core, Joyce is a good person, and maybe she got more of that from her dad than we gace h credit for. I don’t by any means think he’s perfect, but this is a good reminder that nobody is black and white.
A compassionate and loving person that behaved like this when learning that Ethan is gay.
It is no wonder that homophobia spreads in fundie communities. They portray queer people as aliens/monsters/satan worshippers, not as normal humans.
That’s hardly exclusive to fundies, dude. I was raised liberal Catholic, my mom never talked about gay people being bad and it rarely came up in church. But I’d been raised on TV, comics, classmates, and the wider culture using “gay” as an insult and treating LGBTQ people as the “Other.” Even positive portrayals had gay people being sassy best friends or sad AIDS patients, not everyday PEOPLE. So the first time I saw a real-life openly gay person (he was a choreographer showing my high school freshman year acting class how to dance), I was flabbergasted.
I whispered to the kid sitting next to me “that guy’s gay!”
The kid looked at me, puzzled. “…yeah? And?”
I’d been taunted as a fag and a homo for years in my old (public!) schools for being in theater. This indifference did not compute. “He’s…he’s so gay!”
“Why do you care?”
And lo, I realized: why did I care? It was a long road going from that, to 1) at least being okay with gayness, to 2) being comfortable around LGBTQ people, to 3) eventually not thinking of them as some Other Kind of People because they were people just like me, to 4) realizing and admitting to myself that I was bisexual as hell and had been since 5th grade. But the first step was, with no malice, being genuinely shocked to see an in-the-flesh gay person existed.
Fundies are people too. Take it from an ex fundie with ex fundie parents: we were all ‘we need to spread the gospel whether people like it or not’ and my parents may have even wanted me to not be friends with atheists (I certainly wouldn’t be allowed to date any) but if I had a Becky they would have loved and accepted her just like Hank here.
The way I see it, it so far appears that Hank is a good person with a few very harmful beliefs, in contrast to Ross, who is a horrible person. Hank listened to Joyce when she stood up to him and accepted Becky. Toedad has no respect for his daughter.
tldr he’s a perfectly sane and good guy, he just has issues.
The word that cinched it for me is “always”. That’s a hefty word, especially in religious circles. It’s not something he can walk back easily. To utter it so readily, so easily, is just huge.
… S’cuse me, I’m all verklempt, talk amongst yourselves.
Probably, but to most people losing a child would be worse. Whether Mr (or Mrs) Brown is most people remains to be seen, but I’m holding out hope that they’re the basically ok variety of fundamentalist bigots.
That would be unfortunate for Hank but not entirely unheard of. I may be being way to optimistic, but Hank is kinda giving off the feeling that he might be one of those people whose world view changes completely when someone close to them comes out. One of those people who, once the “other” becomes closer to home they realize it’s nothing to be afraid of.
If there’s a betting pool, my money’s on ‘he thinks she’s sinning, and doesn’t believe in what she’s doing, but is still going to be loving and supportive (of her, not her “choices”), because “kid needs family values and moral authority who are good people especially after what her dad did and forcing god on her right now is only going to send her farther from the church”, and won’t say anything negative to her face, but expresses doubts to Joyce (or stresses how important it is that she be a guiding light in the darkness or some such for Becky) and has a lot of LONG conversations with his wife and their preacher’.
Tl;dr -“love the sinner, hate the sin, but don’t be a jerk about any of it”. (and maybe warm up to the idea in several years or decades in-comic time? Please? Becky can has happy ending?)
I have the impression that on the hate scale, Hank is probably a 2 in that he has a wrong and bigoted view about homosexuality–i.e that it’s wrong but he’s not of the idea that it’s EVIL and dehumanizing. Which is going to be a major problem with his wife as so many other people seem to think it is THE demon sin. This may result in him losing that 2 as he realizes just how crazy his surrounding family and friends are. The difference I suppose between prejudice and goose-stepping Klansman like Toedad.
That seems likely. The positive of that worldview is that it looks like Becky won’t be being directly rejected by the closest thing she’s got to back-up parents today.
Next thing you know, millions of dollars are at stake and burly men in dark suits are staring off into the middle distance saying “You know, Mr. Willis, it would be a terrible tragedy if your fingers were to get broke.”
Remember Joyce realizing why her family changed churches so many times? Also, remember Joyce’s mother commenting not on the sin of Becky, but on feeling sorry for her dad?
I think we’ll cut away from Joyce and family now, because this is the answer to her fears of just minutes ago.
Depends which version of the story you hear. It’s definitely not one of the more well-translated myths out there (for example: the “box” was more of a storage jar than an actual box)
The version I always heard was that at first hope got trapped inside when they slammed the lid back down trying to keep any other evils from escaping, then years later someone else discovered the box and opened it up to see what was inside and released hope.
Then whether hope itself was the gods having pity on us and including one good thing to help us withstand all the trials released from the box or if it is the greatest evil of them all because it keeps us from just accepting ‘Okay, life just sucks now thanks to Pandora opening that box so there’s no point in wanting anything different’ so we can be beat down by them again and again depends on whether the person telling the story wants to go with a downer ending or not.
The version I heard was that what got kept in the box was the knowledge of all the bad things that would happen in the future. With this knowledge, humanity would lose hope. In that way hope was saved, but it was never in the box.
Okay, so not only is Joycemom gonna divorce Joycedad over his unwillingness to cast Becky into the Lake of Fire with his own bare hands, she’s also gonna marry Toedad while he’s in prison?
I doubt the marrying Toedad bit. That would require the marriage to be consummated. And no one wants to have sex with Toedad, even to spite an ex husband.
I’m actually hoping it goes the other way. I want the issues with Joyce’s parents addressed, but…
Becky’s been through enough awfulness. I know the comic’s a soap opera with wiener jokes and superheroes, but there’s only so much tragedy a main character can go through before it gets frustrating to read. I’d much rather see a low-key confrontation where Joyce’s mother realizes she’s being cruel than an all-out CAST OUT THIS EVIL FROM MY HOUSE throwdown where we’re reminded, again, how unhealthy and backwards Joyce’s community is.
I think we’re forgetting his idiotic historical misinformation, in favour of that Dad-Hug towards Becky at just the right moment. He may not know about the world, but he knows how to treat a person standing right in front of him, and that’s a very decent start.
Yeah, he wasn’t perfect but he did listen to Joyce and let her reason. He also was friendly about saying she’s like the older brother who her mom doesn’t always agree with.
(This wasn’t about her sister Jocelyn (their favourite), it was about one of her older brothers. Just before someone misremembers freshmen family weekend and thinks I’m misgendering)
Even then, from their perspective it wouldn’t be mis-gendering, as Jocelyn is still in the closet (or whatever the trans equivalent of the closet is?).
..dressing room, perhaps?
It’s like a closet for people who are trying to find the right clothes to express who they are, and are hesitant about stepping outside of the room [straight into a public space!] to display themselves in the manner that they find most suitable for them.
I just realized that “Fountain Shadow” could refer to either Jouce standing up to her parents for Dorothy OR the Gunman pointing his gun at Becky & Joyce.
You think it might be that there were just so many of them? I mean, the dynamic of having the whole family coming into a fairly delicate social situation? (Not to say anyone ‘had’ anything to be cautious about, but if one side is expecting ‘homecoming and food!’ and the other is all ‘this is how my life changed since I got here…’, someone’s gonna have to change plans, and having so many of them at once didn’t help).
I’m writing this in advance, because I feel this is important to note early in the discussion.
I would like to make a small request to this thread given the last one. If you’re about to write a post about how Becky is awful and is ruining Joyce’s trip and etc, please just take an extra minute before hitting post to just think about it and if you really do stand by that sentiment. Just double check that you would say the same thing about a heterosexual character who exhibited the same traits.
I’m not saying don’t post it. I’m not saying you’re not allowed to hate Becky for even the dumbest of reasons (grr, red hair killed my parents). I’m not here to take away anyone’s self-expression. It’s just…
I’ve been where Becky has been too many times. I’ve personally been told many times that I deserved bad things that happened to me because I was trans in public, or being stupid to say the wrong thing to a bigot, or by “shoving my way of life in other people’s faces”. I’ve been blamed more times than I can count for the transphobia and homophobia of others, for their reactions to my existence. And I’ve been scarred by needing to be “that perfect girl” to balance it.
I know I’m just one person. But, those comments on the last thread hit me way too hard because it was like I was right back there in those life experiences being surrounded by so much of it. And that really did trigger feelings of not being safe. I’m not saying that’s on you.
I’m just saying, double check yourself. Because the accumulation of these moments for so little of a cause may have an effect far beyond your intent especially for those who’ve been where Becky is and I just ask you, beg you, please just make sure you feel your statement about Becky intends that.
Please just double-check your intentions. For a single moment. And then post anyways if that’s what you feel is right and fair.
Getting reminded of dumb awful thoughtless abuse because of dumb thoughtless comments sucks. It really, really does. I am sorry you got reminded of that stuff.
Nah, I totally get where Becky is right now. Her whole world’s been rent asunder, partly by her own doing, but in large part by her dad going off the deep end. I don’t think she knows it, but she’s looking for something comfortable. How well this goes we shall have to see.
wow. this was an amazingly reasonable response. you took feelings of hurt that came as an unintended consequence of comments that people made probably without much thought, and you weighed them up and gave a fair, blameless plea for introspection. i think i really like you as a person. even though i realize this comment isn’t intended to be cheery, i do want to thank you for posting it, because it’s people being reasonable in response to negative feelings like this that gives me hope for humanity. not to overstate it or anything…
that aside, i really do hope that when people are calling becky ‘rude’ it is because of her butting in and not in a ‘lifestyle in our faces’ way. i have found her a bit abrasive sometimes, but seeing with what she’s trying to deal with in her life right now (dad, identity, homelessness, cashlessness, uncertain future), i think that trying to stick by joyce for a little solace might be reasonable. and if she’s doing it to be there for joyce, then imagine trying to be selfless when things are that hard. i think everyone gets the benefit of the doubt for now. let’s hope joyce’s mom ends up on the nice side of this
I want to say that I totally agree with this comment, as one of the people who was calling Becky “rude”, as you say. I think I speak for most people when I say I’m not trying to hurt anyone, nor do I think Becky is being particularly unreasonable. I just think that, regardless of other traits, I thought Becky might get a warmer response if she approached a little more gently.
Of course, it seems Hank is doing pretty well anyway, so the point appears moot
I wouldn’t say that she’s ruining Joyce’s trip, I’d say she’s sticking her head into a beartrap for very silly reasons. She’s spent her entire arc trying to escape these circumstance, what the hell is she diving right back into the situation.
Sometimes you need pick your battles, and this really isn’t the hill Becky should be fixing to die on. She should be focusing on building her new life, and leaving her old one in the dust.
I don’t think there can be much doubt this is entirely motivated by Dorothy related jealousy, anything else would require a level of thought and pre-planning I am not willing to credit Becky with, she’s just too impulsive for it not to be.
Actually if there is a reason to be pissed (which I’m not, I’m just facepalming at her poor choice) with Becky it’s that she’s ignoring Dina and proving Sarah right.
This has nothing to do with Dorothy, this is entirely about Becky providing support to her best friend. This is about her making sure Joyce doesn’t have to face her parents alone in case things go to shit. This is about Joyce not getting trapped into the same kind of situation she got trapped into with her father.
The fuck? How does this have anything even remotely to do with Dorothy? Becky and Joyce talked about Joyce not going home alone. Becky knows Joyce is worried and anxious and she wants to be there for her best friend.
I’m glad someone else is concerned about Dina. Becky has been good with her (making sure she’s okay, feels included, etc) but I think this just solidifies in Dina’s mind that she’s still number two.
Because all her clothing and belongings that she didn’t take with her to Anderson are there and she could sell off some things to feel like less of a burden on everyone around her/be the one treating Dina to a nice day out?
Her old life includes Joyce and she’s not leaving Joyce in the dust. Especially when Joyce is worried she’s going to spend the whole trip being hassled and guilted and prayed at about her support for Becky.
She should be focusing on building her new life, and leaving her old one in the dust.
Building her new life actually requires her to go back to La Porte!
She needs her social security card and other documents that are in her father’s house.
Thank you for saying this. I am sorry that you've had to go through that, and I will keep this response in mind not only here, but in other places as well.
She already said she would come along in an earlier strip though, as is mentioned a few comments above by Sadie and linked to when she says it.
Joyce was feeling anxious about this trip. Also, I feel like Becky may also be coming just in case there are moments where she might be left alone outside because her family doesn’t know about the Ryan thing and while Joyce’s recent anger has kept her fear subdued… I can imagine them saying something in a casual manner which triggers the memories to flood back.
I can understand that, and Becky is a very sympathetic character, and her actions here are very forgivable given her circumstances.
But they’re just that, “forgivable.” Not “good” not “bad” just “forgivable.” Because without context this is emotional manipulation, springing the question at the exact moment all parties can’t say no. It could be well intentioned, like Becky really wants to know there can be decent parents in this world after her own family life just had the final nail put in the coffin, but we are forgetting one other party in this equation: Dina.
You see, this proves Sarah completely and 100% right.
Not saying Becky deserves comeuppance or is even a bad person (nobody deserves anything). But her actions here are still selfish. Completely forgivable and not necessarily “bad,” but definitely selfish.
But she offered several comics ago and Joyce did not object. Like, this is palpably about her supporting Joyce. That is a good thing, even if it doesn’t have a good impact.
im also one of the ones who thought becky shouldnt have birsted in like that and from my own perspective i wouldve liked going home alone if i was joyce, but its mot because of her sexuality at all. sexuality doesnt matter to me, and neither does being trans. i always treat people by their actions and personalities. im sorry you had to go through those things
When thinking “I would have liked going home alone”, did you take into account just how anxious and fearful Joyce was about this visit? This isn’t about her happily visiting her safe&warm place, this is about her diving into a nest of vipers and trying to pretend to not be questioning her faith and pretty much entire worldview.
Not to mention the part where Becky needs to go to HER OWN home, and I don’t mean like ‘Joyce’s family might as well be hers’, I mean like literally ‘they are neighbours’.
Becky needs a lift to pick up her documents if nothing else. She NEEDS THIS TRIP FOR HERSELF, for fuck’s sake. She’s not JUST a stage decoration in the drama of Joyce’s life.
Cerberus, you’re my favourite poster in these comment threads. I always look out for what you’ve got to say if I’m not sure what I think or how I feel about something brought up in the comics. There’s a lot of stuff you’ve enabled me to understand by the way you wrote about it. And even if I don’t reach the same conclusion as you, you help me reach *a* conclusion, by having a well-defined viewpoint that I can compare and contrast with what I think. *lifts a glass to the inimitable Cerberus*
More than ever, thank you. You’re just a fundamentally decent person, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness you bring here and how you challenge me to think.
For what little it’s worth, the way people were responding to your perfectly reasonable explanation/defense of Becky is why I finally felt like commenting. Unless a person is going out of their way to hurt others, demonizing them is…confusing among other things. Thank you trying to add some empathy to a world starving for it. You’re good people. And generally, if people like a character, there are positive qualities to be found there. Would that we all remember that.
Sorry that happened; one day, I sincerely hope that the concept of gender (beyond “This is the part of reproduction my physical body does”) will be seen as ridiculous.
You have my respect. I’m just hoping that people will actually read the whole thread instead of knee-jerk posting. So much of yesterday was just the same thing over and over.
Part of me wonders if Hank is the less evangelical of the two parents. I imagine he’d be more open to Joyce’s changes if he was able to act alone more often.
I believe Willis has said that his father was less fervent about things than his mother, so since Joyce is partially autobiographical, Hank being more chill would make sense.
Pretty sure that’s the wall of PO boxes for all the students to get their mail in, and the labels above them show which wings are assigned to those banks of PO boxes. Nothing too disorganized about that.
(why anyone puts as much attention into the details of the irrelevant background of a comic strip as this is beyond me)
Yeah, I’m really hoping Mr. Brown is genuinely chill, and his comment is more “Kids these days” and less “I’ll strap her down, you get me an old priest and a young priest!”
Not necessarily. Hank’s statement comes of more as “I’m 40 and stupid teen haircut is stupid” than “I’m 40 and that haircut is a sign that Satan has infested her soul”.
Presumably Willis knew about it. Although I personally like to think that Shortpacked comic where he claims he just leaves all the work to employees and hits the golf course with Jim Davis is the truth, and he’s just as shocked as we are every night at midnight.
nah i pretty much expected it. part because he seems like a genuinely good dad who tries to do the right thing, and also because if he mistreated becky joyce would not get in the car with him and the storyline would be over
Same as LimeSheep. I might have expected less hugs and genuine smiles and more awkwardness, but that’s details I haven’t really given much thought to. I expected there to be no explosion of sudden homophobia/asshattery and for him to warmly agree to take Becky along.
Not only was this not the right narrative place for the fight to happen – for all the reasons pointed out last page about how it would have been the safest option – but also this is a pretty reasonable human thing to expect?…
I like how you can SEE him making a conscious decision to treat Becky normally. He knows enough about what’s happened to think “whatever else is going on, Becky needs a Dad Hug more than anything else.”
He might have other things to say later, but for now, he’s just going to be the dad she needs.
I would like to think that, if someone I knew’s dad tried to shoot them, I’d have a comforting word and a hug.
Well, tbh, probably just the hug because even now with all the time in the world and no pressure, I can’t imagine what the right thing to say to that might be. (“Sorry your Dad snapped”? )
And not only does he make this decision, it’s made out of genuine warmth. Look at his smile when Becky’s back is turned. He really does love her, it’s not just a politeness / indulge daughter / bring back lost sheep thing.
Me, yesterday (not here, elsewhere): ‘I hope Hank’s reaction is “Becky! What did you do to your hair?! Well, hop in the car, let’s go.” But I’m not holding out much hope.’
Me, today: ‘My “best case” scenario was underestimating him?’
“but at least he thought he was doing the right thing. right?”
just saying, before we start expecting warm-fuzzies at the browns’.
i actually think that that line would be a remarkably kind and dispassionate appraisal if we didn’t all know what it was meant to represent
I mean, he MIGHT have been saying “He’s delusional, but he is good at heart” instead of “Well, I guess that was kind of an overreaction but she is homosexual after all”
Probably not, though
… I know that this is Dumbing of Age and I should be waiting for that inevitable shoe to drop, but I just… really want to be optimistic about this. I want Joyce’s parents to be sympathetic and capable of growth and, you know, not being tremendous shitheads.
I want something undeniably good to happen to these characters for a change.
(Of course, now that I’ve said that, things are going to go horribly horribly wrong, aren’t they. Insert preemptive Willis damning here.)
Considering that today’s comic is a possible moment and shit didn’t happen I have problems with the way you use the word ‘will’ in combination with the word ‘every’. It implies that under no circumstances would a possible moment have no amount of shit, but on this very page there is a contradiction to that statement. I will grant you though, since we’re talking about Willis, that we have a legitimate reason to expect shit to happen in every possible moment.
One variation on Murphy’s Law is :”If something could have gone wrong but didn’t, it would have been more beneficial in the long run if it had gone wrong.”
Only if you assume it’s inductive. It’s possible that in the future there will be no non-shitty moments, even if in the present there are shitty moments.
…Playing devil’s advocate, obviously, even though it can be inferred that Reltzik and TheLurkerAbove are making an inductive argument based on Willis’s prior plot points. Still, it’s not technically a contradiction unless you make the assumption that the present and the future should be substantially similar.
That being said, I’m about to make a similar assumption to show a contradiction, so this is extremely hypocritical.
A hypocritical argument isn’t necessarily an invalid one. Hypocrisy only lowers the credibility of the person behind the argument, not the argument itself. I think. It’s 5am and my brain is no longer fully functional for philosophical debates about shit and its inevitability.
You can have the best of both worlds. Imagine something great happened to you and then right after something else HORRIBLE happened. The moment where something undeniably good happens is the worst possible moment.
I was kind of thinking that Hank’s initial stunned reaction might be to the haircut. I’m glad I was right, but have no real faith in things staying this good for long.
I think Hank is probably more concerned about how to react to a kidnapping and hate-crime victim than either the haircut or the fact she’s a lesbian. They’re there but they exist on a normal sane spectrum of importance (well, a bigoted one for the lesbian bit but not a murder-pants one).
While he’s being kind here, I still anticipate that there will be a conversation at some point where Joyce’s parents say, “You know, this wouldn’t have happened if you had just been straight. Maybe give that a try!”
I want to note that many dads are uncomfortable talking about ladybits to their daughters. What little sex education Joyce and Becky had came from their moms. And fundie moms aren’t really…flexible in explaining anything other that tab B goes into slot A.
Oh that’s a given, but for now, for this single solitary moment, he did the right thing. And that sadly, too sadly, was probably hard for him, but I’m glad he’s making the effort even if I trust him not at all to sustain that for the weekend.
That’s roughly a million times better than it COULD be going, though, and Joyce will stand up angrily against that kind of comment rather than deflating into a horrible depressed place immediately. so. that’s somethin’.
I get the feeling that Joyce’s parents are going to pull out the story of Job. Cuz, yeah. When Fundies are making your life miserable with harassment and abuse for doing stuff they don’t approve of, other Fundies love to pretend it’s all in God’s plan to make you straighten up and fly right. It’s not bigotry and abuse, it’s God’s love!
(No, really, I actually had some fundies pull the ‘lecture about Job’ thing on me after a particularly bad bullying incident once. It happens. )
Job is actually one of my favourite biblical-type texts once you put it in historical context.
See, the Romans destroyed the Temple, which was like the world ending. The current leaders were like “oh no, we must’ve screwed up bigtime to cause God to allow that to happen!” and they made many, many rules so that they’d never even get close to screwing up the commandments ever again.
A generation later, the book of Job was written by their kids, about, sometimes bad things happen to good people, and it wasn’t actually anyone’s fault, DAD.
Follow up on religion geekery – Job was written long before the Romans.
Babylonian Exile and the destruction of the First Temple might be what you were thinking?
At the very least Becky will be able to visit her house, and get her hands on important things like documents, clothing, and any money she might have hidden away. Assuming of course the house hasn’t been seized or had the locks changed by her relatives, and said relatives are hostile to Becky being out.
She has a legal right to, at the very least, her birth certificate and social security card, along with any of her personal property that is in the house (though the rest of it is possibly subject to obstructive relatives claiming it doesn’t really belong to her and would have to be resolved through a lawsuit, identity documents aren’t) – she could probably get police presence to back her up in that worst-case scenario.
It’s not a given that the La Porte cops will be sympathetic to Becky’s plight. It’s a small town of approx 22,000, the dynamics will be different to Indianapolis.
I think there’s a Christian prayer, something about asking for the serenity to accept what cannot be changed. I think it’s possible that Joyce’s dad is trying to practice exactly that here.
Although, I am still somewhat worried about the business during family weekend where they ‘exorcised’ Joyce, or whatever it was. Don’t remember exactly and I don’t want to spend the next half-hour looking.
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off.”
Huh? Exorcising is srs business, they didn’t do that. Do you mean when they held hands and prayed for her to have the strength to make the right choice about befriending Dorothy?
The Brown Family Prayer. With Monkey Master. Here is the episode in question. It took two minutes to find (using the tags) and then five minutes to find the right message to reply to. The internet giveth, the internet taketh away.
There are a few US states where you can’t do it. In Canada, it’s outlawed in Ontario, and Manitoba refuses to fund it, but it’s not criminal to subject a minor to it here (though it should be).
Four states have made it illegal (California, Illinoiis, Oregon, and New Jersey) and DC. There isn’t much of a fast track for it being banned nationwide in the US and not much legal activism happening on most state levels. It’ll remain legal for a very long time in most of the US, sadly.
The Browns are the closest thing she’s got to a family now so it’d be real nice if they didn’t immediately try to destroy her emotionally but I’m not holding out much hope.
I think it was rude of her to jump in and ask if she could come instead of letting Joyce do it for her, but didn’t she and Joyce already talk about her coming along for Thanksgiving?
Personally, while that’s a little rude, I’m more bothered by her willingness to ditch Dina–her girlfriend who tried to protect her from her gun-wielding father–and go on a road trip with her lifelong crush.
Becky doesn’t have much choice, she’s supposed to be just hanging out with Joyce so if she stays while Joyce is on a trip people will notice. Unless Sarah is staying?
Yea, I’m worried about Dina… Did Becky just run up and ask to go without telling Dina first? Because she, Walky, and Dorothy seemed so confused and looking all over… And especially after Sarah and Dina’s conversation that could be really hurtful to her, going off with Joyce for a weekend without saying goodbye..
Yeah, but even that’d be an insensitive thing to do, it feels like. I guess they’ve been going out for a while now, but ugh. My heart goes out for Dina.
I mean, it’s a weekend to support a friend in crisis. Becky’s made the offer to help Joyce in front of Dina, so Dina is informed that this was probably happening this weekend and had ample time when with Becky to bring up any concerns she had with that.
I mean, having moments of separation are good for healthy boundaries and not becoming co-dependent with each other, especially as it seems they’ve been with each other a lot this last week.
I dunno, I would take that to be more sweet than insensitive, especially since Becky doesn’t know how much Dina is upset and jealous over Joyce.
Becky’s still not over Joyce and it’s causing Dina some sadness as she thinks she only matters to Becky as “Girl who will kiss me who isn’t Joyce”, but that doesn’t mean Becky has to violently separate herself from her oldest friend. Becky’s allowed to pine for Joyce and still have a valid, fulfilling relationship with Dina.
No she doesn’t have to “violently separate herself” from Joyce, but Joyce isn’t just her oldest friend, Becky has been in love with her for years. And its only decent to say a proper goodbye to your gf, and not just run off with no notice..
I’m going to go ahead and say that Becky might not be running off with Joyce without a word to Dina. She didn’t suddenly tap into the Speed Force and zoom to the car; she just walked off panel. She’s probably going to go say bye to Dina right now.
In the comic where Becky brings up going, Dina was there, so she seems to know Becky intends to go. We didn’t see the past few days in the comic so maybe they also discussed it. As nice as it’d be for Dina to go with, that WOULD be imposing, a lot more than Becky going with. Joyce’s family doesn’t personally know Dina after all. Hopefully they have a heartfelt good bye and Dina won’t spend the weekend worried about her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s crush being alone for several days.
Yup. The Becky + Joyce + Joyce’s family sphere is a close one, and it doesn’t include Dina or anyone else from college. It would sort of make sense for Dina to possibly want more time away from that sphere to herself, but once it’s set that Becky’s spending some time on that sphere (which is kind of a necessity for many reasons here), Dina’s got no leg to stand on to want to impose until much, much later in their relationship.
If you are jealous of your crush’s family and childhood neighbours for being visited by them once, it’s not them that’s the problem in this relationship.
at first I wondered what was making that distant clanking sound in the background, then i realized that was just really nicely print graffiti on the wall.
Hey, pleasant surprise. I’m personally wondering if the fact that Hank has known Becky for so long she’s practically family is part of why he’s acting more tolerant than expected.
As expected by WHOM? There’ve been lots of people who pointed their lifelong relationship out last thread, and quite a few people who did expect this outcome within some degree of precision…
“I can’t be not the only person not fully believing in the hateful homophobic values of this community around here, given how eagerly they all bestowed them on me, can I?”
“Well, apparently I can. Huh”
Maybe it’s just me, but I think it might have been nicer. kinder if Becky mentioned to Dina ahead of time what she was going to do before she did it. Instead of just acting impulsively.
Dina might forgive her this once, but if Becky keeps doing things like this..well, Sarah might have been more right than even she expected.
Dina might not be the most socially aware, but I’m pretty sure she must remember that Becky doesn’t have – and needs – her goddamn DOCUMENTS. This isn’t just a ‘come along with your old crush on a weekend’ visit, this isn’t just a ‘support your friend in a tense situation’ visit, this isn’t even just a ‘check/renew ties with the closest people you have to remaining family’ visit. This is literally ‘get a ride home to pick up your fucking documents’ visit.
I’m not sure what the timescale of decisions / degree of Dina’s awareness of them has been (Becky has discussed with Joyce that she’d come along before, and Dina was present, but it didn’t end conclusively), but Becky doesn’t seem like the sort of person who’d hurt her needlessly, so why is everyone assuming she has? There isn’t any evidence for that, and their relationship is pretty healthy…
I know, but he still probably knows she’s gay, and about the incident with her dad, and all that. But even though his beliefs are very strong, he still thinks of her as a person with her own freewill, instead of devil spawn or trying to ‘fix’ her.
Yay! Go reasonable people, GO! (Say it’s a dull thing, if you want, but I’m Team Reasonable People on this one. Anyway, if Jeph Jacques can make relatively pleasant family visits funny and have a plot, surely The Boss can, right? )
While we’re doing beginning-of-thread requests, and having had trouble with this before, if we could please refrain from ascribing bigoted intent to people just for disliking certain parts of the comic, I think it would make it easier going for everyone. Opinions about individual comic characters, events, etc don’t necessarily reflect opinions about larger societal issues. In the moment, it sometimes feels like it does, but unless someone actually says something objectionable, it is sometimes a bit conclusion-jumpy to proceed as if they had.
Not here to tell anyone what to do, I’m just a poster on the Comments thread, nobody with any authority (just like anyone not named Wills) but just a suggestion.
I agree with Briny. We’re sitting with our feet up, talking about the latest DoA. Many of us are learning something. All of us are enjoying the work of the storyteller.
Thank you for pointing this out. I’m a little tired of the “if you criticize this character’s actions, you’re criticizing their orientation/gender” vibe I’ve seen in several comments over the last week.
That haircut. Can somebody please enlighten us old folks? Why is the hair such a big deal? We see lots of more radical cuts (to say nothing of colors) these days.
For their subculture of conservative Christians a haircut like Becky’s is possibly pretty radical. We don’t know specific details about their church, but there may be a certain range of haircuts that are considered acceptable and the rest aren’t.
Definitely. Short hair on women tends to be pretty forbidden in that community or only allowed if you’re showing “proper femininity” in other ways (ideally by being a SAHM with at least one kid in tow).
We know Toedad had some hangups about her hair and we can presume the religion played a large role in that, even if he took it farther than others do.Your hair is your womanhood and you must reclaim it.
Thinking back, that really does put a different spin on the whole “waste your only $20 on a haircut” bit.
+Aside from the points already made about the shortness, lesbianness, and possible percieved inappropriateness of the hair, it’s also a HUGE change from the last time Hank or Joyce’s mother saw Becky. Remember how Joyce reacted to it? Joyce is a fairly laid back, open minded, accepting person. Joyce’s mom kinda isn’t.
Ah, gotta love that Midwestern fundie “This makes me extremely uncomfortable but doesn’t directly contradict my views so I’m just going to ignore it and let it fester”
Yeah, there’s no way Carol’s going to react well…the real question is how Hank will react when she inevitably goes off.
Will he stand with his wife, as she goes fire and brimstone? Will he stand with Joyce when she breaks out her mad Bible interpretation skillz to demonstrate why the ‘anti-gay’ passages don’t really mean what they seem to? Will he grab John and Jocelyn (and Jordan if he’s there) and retreat to a safe distance? (Option 2 is best…Option 3 is honestly what I would do in his shoes. I’m…not brave.)
I’m bitterly and pessimistically predicting an awkward mixture of #1 and #3, with awkward patching up of burns and stab wounds after with a nifty dose of ‘well you were so in her face’ victim blaming to go with it.
(The particularly insidious sort where you can’t even bring yourself to be mad about it because you really did need that cold water and gauze after all so the overall encounter isn’t really negative)
No it’s not personal experience what are you talking about >_>
Which really makes me think at least that as much as her primary motivation in this is to support Joyce and be an immediate source of camaraderie and backup, part of her secondary hope is that Hank and Carol can replace at least partially the family she lost.
That maybe it won’t be perfect, but she just looks like she’s hoping so hard that he won’t reject her out of hand or react violently like her dad. And I can empathize so much with that because having a corner of family that was genuinely supportive was so important for me in recovering from my main family’s disownment and awfulness.
Sadly, I’m not fully convinced that Hank and Carol are going to be able to be that for her.
And side note for Joyce’s trembling hands. She’s so not ready for this trip and for the level of anxiety it will produce for her. I’m so glad she has backup, especially loud backup who can draw some of the attention off of her.
Panel 2: I know Hank will be revealing some awfulness later this weekend, but that hug is so important right there and probably not easy for him given the toxicity he drowns in every Sunday. And it reveals the importance of Becky being here this weekend. Because it’s a stark reminder to all parties that any discussion about “this gay stuff” and the shooting and Joyce’s defiance are in relation to a real person, one they know personally.
Panel 3: Ha! It turns out Becky was the one to politely bring up the possibility of her joining along. Which is good. Takes the pressure off Joyce to be the one to bring it up and gave Hank a less douchey escape route if he was still in “eh, I’ll be nice to your face, but you’re still a sinner” mode.
Becky really seems to be the best at quick-thinking situations like that.
Panel 4: Heh, Becks, never change.
Panel 5: There’s that fundie obsession with proper gender roles and the importance of hair to them. Women must be properly feminine and so must never shorn their heads like a man else they get confused about their proper place.
Sadly, this also is probably one of the major factors keeping Jocelyne from taking much of a step towards building her ideal gender presentation. Because as a “man” in their eyes, her hair should not be long for the same reasons of “gender confusion”.
All together reaction: Man, Becky, Joyce, and Jocelyne will all be together this weekend… I’m really looking forward to those scenes. I think they’ll be a heart-warming but scary moment in a whole lotta awful.
Joyce’s hands aren’t trembling; she’s waving to Becky in a “NOPE NOPE NOPE” sort of manner; that’s why her fingers are up, palms towards Becky, instead of curled around or grasping her other hand or sleeves or some such. I think she was expecting this to turn out way, way worse than it did. Transitions pretty quickly into the utter shock of wondering what just happened when her father shows he actually cares about Becky, even if he’s still got some bigotry behind the eyes.
I think it’s more personal and in the moment for Joyce than for the commenters? It’s not ‘Becky should hide in public’, it’s ‘oh my god there’s gonna be a scene with my dad’. Like, you know, slightly less douchey?…
It’s a ‘oh god Becky please be OK’ reaction, not a ‘oh god this is why I hate Becky’ reaction.
I see Becky’s gamble now. She could have easily gone to Dina’s for the holidays but she will risk homophobic confrontations (including the one that didn’t happen just now) in order to make sure Joyce isn’t dealing with her family alone at this time. Everyone calling her out for being thoughtless or selfish should think about what her logical motivation could have been for willingly engaging with people she has reason to believe could be discriminatory at best and abusive at worst. She isn’t a fool and has tons of courage where Joyce is involved, maybe remember that.
I’m not sure we know what her motives are at the moment, but I can’t imagine they’re ill-intentioned. Good intentions or not, though, I don’t think she’s thought this through entirely if you’re right, because I can’t really imagine a scenario where Becky coming home with Joyce and staying in her family residence (because where else would she stay?) will minimize or reduce the drama Joyce is going to experience this break, yet alone make it easier to bear.
You can just imagine her mother hawkishly stalking the house to make sure Becky isn’t trying to “corrupt” Joyce, if she even agrees to let her stay in the first place; or Joyce and Becky coming home from a day trip to find the church congregation there to try and “pray over” them both. Plus, if Becky’s going to try and get her stuff back, I can’t imagine Joyce will let her go alone, which could easily result in awful junk.
And if I’m wrong, and Joyce’s family firmly stand up for Becky and this break turns into a drama-free (or at least faith-restoring) retreat, where Joyce gets to recover and have her hope and love restored in the world a little, you can smack me with a halibut. I won’t care at that point because nice things will be happening to people who deserve it.
If that were the only factor to consider, wouldn’t have said the above. The point is that what might’ve been low-level background noise before is probably going to be quite a few shouting matches now. Possibly with one or two outright galling attempts at “intervention”. So I expect, at least. I’d like to be wrong about that, but we’ll see.
Honestly, given the confrontations on Family Weekend over her being friends with an atheist, this was never going to be “low-level background noise”. Someone’s going to say something like her mom said on the phone and Joyce will explode.
As Cerberus said above, Becky being there will force them to confront that they’re not dealing with abstract rules and sins, but the little girl who’s “always, of course” been welcome in their home. It’s probably the only thing that could reach them. You can see it work on Hank right here.
Will it be enough? Dunno. There certainly will be explosions and drama.
Maybe. I think my response has to be that it’s a roll of the dice; that it could work out tremendously, as you say, if the local response is to Becky is to remember “She’s still the person we love(d)”. If that’s the case, Becky’s presence can only help things.
On the other hand, if the reception to Becky is cold and [insert unkind descriptive adjective or noun here], her presence won’t help things. You can’t assume it’ll humanize things for them, both in the comic and in real life. If anything, her being there might only be the spark that ignites the kindling and turns what might have been uncomfortable into something much worse. If it does escalate into a shouting match, Becky’s presence might exacerbate quiet bigotry into open hatred. At the very least, I’m waiting for someone to ask “How can you not forgive your father? Don’t you know he loves you?”.
More to the point, it’s not just one dice roll, but several. Hank’s come up with some modicum of compassion (for now), but what about Joyce’s mother? Their pastor? Their church group? Becky’s family? And will their decisions stay consistent, or will they waver in the face of social pressure?
Becky’s presence will help things not for her, but for Joyce. Having someone to talk to, having someone there to hold on to and not doubt ‘maybe I am the wrong one after all’ – it’s very important, and it’s very helpful. Being alone vs being together in the moment can make all the difference between breaking and enduring, whatever that might mean in Joyce’s situation (from straight up mental breakdown to ‘yes mom you are probably right i should quit college and leave Becky to her own devices that’s brought nothing but trouble so far’).
Not to mention the entire ‘yelling at the louder one, not the quiet hiding behind her one’ worst case fallout thing.
Becky can do a lot here even if the ‘remind them of her humanity’ gambit doesn’t work.
(And I mean, every person it DOES work on is one more ally on Joyce’s side…)
Badgermole is wrong when they say “for the holidays”. This is not some special time of the year, it is just a regular weekend. Joyce’s going home because her parents called her up – Joyce’s words were “I have to visit home this weekend”. She has to.
She’s not going home coincidently after the Toedad incident, but because of it. There was no chance of the MacIntyres issues being “background noise”, because those were the whole reason of Joyce going home, with or without Becky being present.
Oh my bad, I assumed Thanksgiving was also close at hand (comic time is confusing, I went by the red leaves and such, and I’m not too clear on American holidays and term timings anyway).
This is very early October. Almost 2 months before American Thanksgiving. It’s pretty close to Canadian Thanksgiving, but Indiana’s not close enough to the border for that to effect anything. >_>
I have figured for a while now that we’d eventually see some friction between Joyce’s parents, and more recently I’ve figured that that is gonna be the big drama in the upcoming storyline.
That’s. actually a really good insight. I don’t know if i’m totally convinced that’s going to be the *main* driver of the upcoming story line, but I could definitely see it being part of the story
I misread the alt text as “Prepare her farting couch” as in the couch that Becky farts in that the Browns do not sit in anymore cuz it’s filled with Becky Farts.
I’m not sure if it’s mentioned in the comments already, but I LOVE that Becky is wearing the exact same thing as the first day/strip. I know she doesn’t have much in the way of clothes, but I think it’s a neat throwback to the last time that she saw Joyce’s parents.
Ooooh, nice observation. And no doubt a conscious choice from Becky’s side. She want to show them that she is the same Becky underneath (and that’s the reason she started with a funny Joyce story as well). Much like she did with Joyce before coming out to her.
Won’t Becky being there do the opposite of that, though? Ostensibly, the thing she’d need someone to play distraction on, if they wanted Joyce to just be able to unwind and relax, is to keep her parents from discussing Becky and bringing up their blatant homophobia. Becky seems like the last person to be qualified for that job…
Don’t get me wrong, she’s no doubt got good intentions, but if that’s her plan, I’m not sure she’s thought it through.
I’m not sure Becky has a plan. She doesn’t seem to be into plans, given her past performance.
Joyce is very much afraid of her parents catching on to how much she has changed. She is afraid of losing her family (and her place in College to boot), because she has changed. So she had decided on ducking and hiding to get through the weekend. Her parents are the last people she wants to discuss her religious doubts with, her mother at least is not a person who allows more than one solution there.
With Becky along, hiding will not work. It’s impossible to avoid all the tricky subjects when they she sits next to you talking her head off about science and evolution.
I don’t think even Becky is clear on why she wants to come. I suspect a mixture of hoping that not all adults fail (though Joyce’s mother probably will), needing a connection to what used to be home, needing a reality check on what home actually was, wanting to be with Joyce – I bet the image of Joyce and Dorothy playing house brought all of her wanting back with a vengeance -, and wanting to support Joyce in this thing she obviously fears. The idea of Joyce in her currently state of mind being alone with people who will fear for her soul because she doubts her belief _is_ a scary one.
That was never going to happen. Becky and her gayness WAS going to come up. That is unavoidable and all Joyce can do is prepare for the inevitable confrontation and it’s so important that Becky be there because it gives Joyce support and it stops the discussion from being this abstract consideration of gay people as a concept because their daughter’s gay childhood friend who they’ve known pretty much all her life is standing right there.
Never said it wasn’t going to come up. I said it wasn’t going to distract. This is the opposite of distracting, this is confronting. Maybe that confrontation will do some good, maybe it won’t. It’s just not distracting.
Becky’s intentions are good, and she might’ve helped already just by having Hank be forced to see her and make that emotional connection. Let’s see if she lucks out and everyone else is just as understanding. If that’s the case… That’d be pretty lovely, honestly.
Obviously there’s not going to be such a thing as ‘perfect luck’ for Becky here, this is a Willis comic. But also, there could never be such a thing as ‘dramaless weekend’ for Joyce, as again, this is a Willis comic.
The meta arguments negating each other, we are left with a question of whether it would have been possible, theoretically, for Joyce’s parents to be distracted by someone/something in a way that’d stop the drama train from crashing right into the disaster station.
I really, really think not. Joyce’s options were ‘face drama on her own’ (and her way of psyching up to it was blowing up at Dorothy for making her question gender roles she grew up with) or ‘get Becky to help’. I don’t see how the first option would have been better, honestly.
Becky being there provides scapegoat for Joyce’s family, and moral support and an outlet for Joyce. All of which wouldn’t be there (or at least, there as accessibly) without Becky coming along. I think it’s going to be net-good for Joyce and probably net-awful for Becky.
(though, mind you, there is the possibility this could backfire, but having an outside observer present when you visit toxic family is often helpful)
FUDGE YOU HANK YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF…. oh, you actually did the human, decent thing here and greeted Becky like a friend and almost-daughter and not a wayward sinner to shun, shame or “correct”.
That ‘Always’ was important and very, very good. Hank just earned himself a gold star in my book.
um… sorry about that ‘Fudge’. It was uncalled for. I confused you with ToeDad there for a moment.
Good for you Mr. Brown. He handled that pretty nicely.
Now to get out the popcorn and wait for Joyce’s mother to get a look at ‘that haircut’. She is going to go ballistic.
Got a feeling that Becky may find herself thrown out of her ‘second home’.
Becky is great, but subtle she is not.
Which may will wake up Joyce to standing up for her, and standing up to her parents. They have to know sometime, get it over with. You’ll sleep better even if they won’t.
So I hope Becky is doing this mainly so she can get certain official things in order, and to retrieve documents and other things from her house. I would like to think she is not doing this to stay as close and involved with Joyce as possible. I know she may want to experience home and family again. But I still want her to move on from Joyce. And I’m feeling bad for Dina.
I dunno, I’m not sure why people are assuming Joyce and Becky will just drop a lifelong friendship just because one of them got a crush. Doesn’t mean they won’t still stay best friends!
I am beginning to suspect that Carol isn’t going to blow up during the visit. What I suspect instead is a more subdued undermining with a telegraphed “You know what I think.” I’m not exactly sure which would be worse.
Holy shit that went like a hundred thousand times better than I expected. :’)
It doesn’t mean for sure that Hank’s okay with Becky being gay and that he won’t make awful homophobic comments about it later, but it’s a good start.
I am not sure why so many people expect Hank to be horrible.
Not all ultra religious christians are. (though any person who is completely controlled by one idea, religious or not, tends to be)
I’ve known ultra religious people with gay children who loved and supported their kids, even though they still honestly believe that being gay is a sin. The type of christians that believe in no judging, always being kind, leading by example and leave the rest to God.
Because bigots are unpredictable time-bombs. They can seem like the nicest person in the world until they suddenly go off without warning. Marginalized people don’t trust bigots and expect the worst from them because we have to for our own safety.
Even people that are absolutely awesome in some respects can be beyond horrible in others. While it’s a relief to see that Hank still cares about Becky, that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of harming her in ways that don’t involve violence.
Hank’s a nice enough person and a decent enough father; one who trusts his children to make decisions for themselves, even if he disagrees with them. He isn’t non-judgmental, though, as evidenced by his reaction to Joyce being friends with Dorothy, or… Well…
Y’know, it’s been a while since I read that arc, but did I completely miss that Joyce’s sibling is trans?
So……either Becky’s presence will comfort and help them both, or Joyce will spend the whole trip playing referee for both Becky and her parents until she snaps.
I think Hank is going to be more akin to Leslie’s husband who is, sadly, ignorant rather than malicious (not that Leslie had to put up with ignorance).
Don’t be so quick to assume Joyce’s dad is a “nice guy”. Just ’cause he’s not forcing anyone into a car at gunpoint doesn’t mean he’s not going to try to “fix” Becky and Joyce too. I’ve run into (and had to run from) too many insidious and manipulative “nice” people. Remember he’s one of the main people responsible for how Joyce thought before.
I don’t think Hank Brown is manipulative like that. My feminist studies teacher friend recently talked about how FURY ROAD had a lot of things going for it but a problem she had was that gross Immorten Joe monster-patriarchy means it’s hard to discuss the more subtle sexism and prejudices that are much more common. Hank may well be a bigot but just not think it’s bigotry on a Nazi level because those are much more common–still very very wrong.
Again, I point to Leo who is caring and kind but still condemnatory.
In Hank’s case, I don’t expect him to be willfully terrible. Generally speaking, he’s not really the type to do that. He’s more the type to express his bigotry by blaming Becky for what happened in a way similar to how Ruth blamed Carla, and to do a lot of micro-aggressions. Like, if Becky and Joyce used to sleep in the same room a lot, he might insist she sleep on the couch instead, or he might insist that Becky and Joyce have the door open if they’re in Joyce’s room together, that sort of thing. He’s the sort who will be nice while he suggests the pastor can “help” you with your “problem” and who will be as kind as possible about reminding you of the fact that you’re damned to hell and your abusive father with a toe for a head is probably going to heaven because at least he had righteousness and good intent behind his sins. And, worst of all, he will think he is genuinely doing you a favor by saying these terrible things to you, because he’s trying to save your soul.
He does strike me as a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin type, and we know what kind of fucked up shit that drove Joyce to do to Ethan. Now I’m beginning to think that we know which parent she got that from.
To be honest, I’d actually really love to see a seriously considerate weighing of deontological vs. consequentialist and interventionist vs. non-interventionist ethics through this lens. When do you believe it’s acceptable to intervene in the lives of others? What reasons are acceptable for doing so? How do you weigh intent against consequence?
That’d make a really cool documentary, all things considered. Gun control, drug laws, assisted suicide, contract law… Really, anything and everything to do with government, actually.
… I might actually have a pitch here, if I can find the right network…
Sure. There’s no way Hank is going to be “totally OK” with Becky being gay; but at least he has enough sense not to be an asshole to a girl who’s just nearly been abducted and has effectively lost all her family. And he isn’t turning her away. Gotta give thanks for small mercies.
You know, it occurred to me a while back that Becky doesn’t really have any family to go to any more. And that she feels safe with Joyce and Joyce’s family. So yeah, maybe she’s going on this trip to help Joyce out…but maybe it’s also for personal reasons. To have a home to go to. Dina’s sweet, but Dina doesn’t know Becky as well as Joyce and her family do.
We all forget that Becky is very alone right now, and probably pretty scared.
Becky is so good at putting up a facade so she tends to fool us readers as well. Up to this moment she had exactly ONE person in the world that she had known for more than a week and who wasn’t her enemy. Now she has two.
Maybe. I doubt she’s convinced. Hoping, but not trusting.
And we all know that hope is only there to be crushed.
But yeah the facade thing for Becky is so well done. It’s got to be tricky to write. A character for whom almost everything we see is a cover.
It’s also probably why many people don’t like her. They’re seeing the surface and missing the few glimpses beneath it that we get.
Okay, *whew*. I wasn’t expecting toe-dad bad, but I was expecting bad.
That said, being a nice guy (in this particular situation) doesn’t make him a good guy. So… cautious optimism? Is there such a thing as suspicious optimism?
Seriously? Becky needs to get home to get HER GODDAMN DOCUMENTS. This isn’t ditching Dina in favor of Joyce. I mean, this could be rude to Dina if Becky didn’t warn her she was going to do this, but I doubt it…
This isn’t a make or break weekend for Joyce. She already broke during the Toedad incident. This is where Joyce finds out for herself what she’s willing to stand for, and what she isn’t, even when she’s broken.
If Becky wasn’t in the picture, this weekend would have been an exercise in masks and escapism for Joyce. I don’t think Joyce is the type who’ll resent Becky for the reactions of her mother, so I’m guessing this weekend will be hard but ultimately beneficial for Joyce due to Becky’s presence.
I agree. It was already likely to be hard, because the topic of Becky would have surely come up -and when she first called home after the horrible toe incident, she threw down the gauntlet so hard the floor cracked. Becky being present will just mean she’s not alone in backing up her words.
Yeah, I dunno where people get the idea that things wouldn’t circle around the Becky is gay and staying with you at college stuff if Becky didn’t come along. Toedad’s happy fun gun times is the purpose for the visit home, Joyce angrily defended Becky in what may be the second major defiance of her parents in her life (and it’s 2 in less than a month), and Carol and Joyce had that talk that took about 9.8 seconds to drift into “well, it’s understandable that he did that because Becks is a sinner” territory.
Becky’s situation was always going to be central to the conversations around the Brown table. It’s just now, there’s a human face to that. And Joyce isn’t all alone being mobbed 2-on-1 in passive-aggressive prayer circles (remember she had the strength to push back against her parents when she at least had Dorothy by her side).
And if they’re as “properly midwestern” as they seem, then they might actually be less likely to make directly intentional awful comments than if she comes along, because being a “good host” who “overlooks indiscretions” is so heavily valued.
To be honest, when I was replying to another comment earlier, that thought sort of struck me like a brick; that there’s a third option between “This is awesome” and “This is awful”, where that fell god, Awkwardness, suffocates all conversation like a shroud on a flame. Not sure if it would be the best outcome or not, but it might genuinely work out.
As far as Becky’s presence goes, I think my summary would, at this point, probably be not that her presence will necessarily make things better or worse, but might make them more extreme.
If Joyce’s parents (and the community) recognize Becky as a human being, the discussion might genuinely improve everyone in a way that her being an abstract might not. I imagine Hank, at the very least, will discuss it differently, and would do so even if he’d only just seen Becky for a moment at the college.
On the other hand, if things go bad, and they dehumanize Becky, it’s gonna be really bad. Joyce – and anyone else who might agree with her – is going to end up pinned in a tribal brawl with her former community, and they most certainly would be former after that.
… Also, as an aside, I hope Joyce’s mother actually comes around on this. My memory may be fuzzy, but the ratio of angry fundamentalists in this comic does seem to have a slight gender skew, and it’d be nice to see that counterbalanced a bit. Plus, it’d be nice to have Joyce’s family actually be as loving and accepting as she is. I’d love a happy ending there, even if it’s not a perfect one…
The topic would definitely have been addressed hard either way. But Joyce would have had a stronger inclination to tell her parents what they want to hear, and would have had less of a cushion from the fallout when she likely fought back against badmouthing Becky.
Given the fact that Joyce’s father had been to this College before and likely study here I can believe that he isn’t against Becky in anyway in fact I think he might actually respect Becky from finding who she is like any good christian would IN MY OPINION!
I just also believe he’s pretty likely to not stand up for her when OTHER people gang up on her and Joyce and then just be all half-apologetic half-victim-blamey when one on one again.
Not all people actually follow through on their values when push comes to shove…
I should have guessed that it was the haircut that has Hank so kerfuzzled! I guess that, in their community, hairstyles are just another way to conform.
In many conservative communities (not just fundie ones), hair is very definitely a way to conform. There’s a reason my first act of teenaged rebellion was to shave my head bald on one side only and cut it short on the other (yes, I looked ridiculous. And I knew I did. That wasn’t the point. The point was that it was the most blatant eff you I could think of to the hair standards. Funny enough, after I did that the school changed its dress code to outlaw hair deemed a “distraction” – which they so happened to define as short hair on girls and long hair on boys, among other things. That a dress code isn’t written in a sexist manner doesn’t mean it’s not going to be enforced in one). The reason was that until I went that far, I wasn’t allowed to cut my hair shorter than mid-back-length (and my hair is this horrible fine-but-a-lot-of-it-and-just-curly-enough-to-tangle-horribly-if-you-look-at-it-the-wrong-way texture that refuses to hold a style. It is not the kind of hair you want long hair with if, like me, you’re someone who hates spending hours each day maintaining your hair). I mean, officially I was, but any hint of any desire to cut my hair was met with passive-aggressiving and gaslighting of the “If you’re sure…” and “You don’t want to look like a boy, so you don’t want that haircut,” and “I’m just worried people will make fun of you,” varieties.
Hair is seen in a lot of these communities as an expression of femininity – and, for these communities, conformity to your gender role is highly valued. Joyce and Becky have both mentioned as much. Becky likely got her haircut in part as a visible representation of her rejection of her parents’ values, too (seriously, to that sort of conservative culture, the haircut is in some ways a bigger act of rebellion than her being openly lesbian. It’s an obvious, visible and impossible-to-ignore symbol of her rejection of their ordained gender roles). The fact that she took great pleasure in how scandalized Joyce was by the haircut backs it up for me.
It seems weird, but genuinely speaking I think Hank, at least, will disapprove openly more about the haircut than about Becky’s gayness. Why? Because he can tell himself that even the strongest sometimes succumb to “temptation” and that, as Jesus refused to condemn someone for adultry as judgement is the domain of God and not man, so too should he refuse to condemn someone for homosexuality (this is the reasoning my grandmother uses to not reject one of the grandkids who’s gay).
But Becky’s rejection of the socialized gender roles, that’s not “temptation” – it’s outright, willful rejection of the belief system in which she was raised. That’s something that, for a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin type, is really hard to reconcile, because love-the-sinner generally assumes that the sinner is at least trying not to sin. Becky isn’t only trying to reject the gender roles she was raised in, she’s trying to nuke them from orbit and take delight in doing so (not that I have any problem with her doing this – I have short hair myself and see above about making myself look like I lost a fight with a lawnmower to nuke the gender roles I was raised in from orbit – I also made a point of doing anything and everything I was “gently” reminded was “more of a boy thing” like science club, math, organized sports, and so on. So, really, I can’t blame Becky because Teenage Me gave her culture at least as much of a two-fingered salute as Becky has given hers, for what I think are pretty much the same reasons. More that I’m trying to explain why I think Hank has expressed more disapproval about the haircut and more worry about Carol’s reaction to the haircut than about Becky’s orientation).
I predict a lot of preaching about the dangers of pride and the importance of submission for women, and a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle language reminders that women are by and large still considered chattel by that sort of culture. And preaching about the dangers of giving in to temptation and the virtues of chastity.
Is it bad that this made me smile even though I know it will probably end badly? I want things to turn out well for Becky, I just… Don’t think it will happen with Joyce’s folks.
I would be really happy to see Joyce’s parents end up having the attitude of “We don’t like or agree with your choices, but we still accept them and you”. Towards Becky, Joyce, anyone.
No, pretty sure I meant the lesbian thing. And no, I’m not saying Becky being attracted to women is a choice, it is obviously not. Her choice to act on it is, since she “could” (but definitely not should) bury those feeling deep down and conform and be miserable. And frankly speaking, Carol and Hank are not going to change overnight and expecting them to is ludicrous, so I think reaching a begrudging acceptance would be a pretty big accomplishment for the weekend. And I did say in the end, I do expect plenty of tension.
And honestly, even if the whole arc is just false smiles and hallow words, just to overcorrect and prove they are not Ross, it is still a step (however small) towards fully accepting Becky. Plus it shows they care enough about her to put their feelings on hold, which would probably be very good for her mental well being.
Yeah, but I wasn’t arguing at Zalf. I was pointing out that them taking that tack would be preferable (since as zalf said they’re not going to change overnight), but still bigoted.
Both of Joyce’s parents are very conservative but Willis has previously shown that Hank is more willing to bend in favour of Joyce’s happiness than Carol is. However, they are still conservative Christians. So, Becky will be a cause of strain to them, no matter how determined Hank appears to be to prove to himself and to Joyce that he isn’t Ross McIntyre.
I wonder if it will cause some inter-parental tension? I could see a scene where Carol is sour, reproachful and condescending towards Becky; then Hank takes her into another room and, as her husband orders her to show more courtesy to their guest.
Yeah, I kind of expected this reaction with Hank. Though, I don’t think it’s *really* that great of a reaction. It *seems* nice, but you can see a hesitant pause before Hank goes in to give Becky a hug, and then there’s that subtle judgy comment at the last panel. I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of those this weekend, Becky and Joyce are not going to have a fun time.
Plus he looks more surprised than happy to see Becky here. It would be nice if it was just because he was surprised about her haircut though, instead of surprised because she wants to come along too. Hnnnrn.
This weekend is still going to be a trainwreck though, this strip hasn’t changed my mind of that! hahaa
As much of a relief as it is to see a father actually behave how a father is supposed to, he still has plenty of time to put his foot in the mouth or worse. While Hank earned some points by agreeing with Joyce when they were in conflict about Dorothy, he’s still the person who alongside his wife forced that conflict. And he o
Dammit, phone! Stop posting when i try to scroll down!
Anywho, Hank only agreed with Joyce, as far as we could tell at least, because she appealed to the Bible as the superior authority. I think the best scenario we can even wish for is a; If the Bible tells me it’s wrong to love you, then I’d rather be wrong.
Joyce could appeal to “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” with respect to Becky. Hank seems like the sort who is more receptive to kind-lamb Jesus than flip-a-table-and-chase-people-with-a-horse-whip Jesus.
though i have a tendency towards hating religion and disliking religious people and none of the people around me are religious (its rare in my country), the only religious people i know are super nice people who support gays (one even is bi), immigrants and anyone. theyre like angels. one of them is an old man and he writes haikus and poems on facebook and posts pictures of sunsets and reposts posts about accepting gays and anti-racism stuff and whatever. the churcg here in general is also very accepting. its still a bit sexistic but its better than all other churches ive heard of. so id kinda like to see some christians who arent judgemental and anti lgbt and all that stuff
Just a few strips ago (early this day, in-comic) Becky said she didn’t see any contradiction between science and faith. Joyce disagreed, but that doesn’t change where Becky’s faith is rigth now. God does answer lesbian prayers.
Billie is more like “of course I’m Christian, isn’t everyone else? What, you aren’t? Weird.”. She and Danny believe but don’t go to church every Sunday like Joyce (and Sierra) do.
Most Christians in my country are of the “believe but don’t go every Sunday – I mean, we might go on Easter or on Christmas Eve, but otherwise I like sleep more and God will understand” variety. Which was a weird adjustment (but a good one) when I moved to the city because my village was so heavily devout that a population of about 300 supported five churches, all with regular congregations above 55, and if you weren’t at church that week, people wanted to know why.
I greatly prefer the kind of Christian that doesn’t take showing devotion as a contest.
While that trajectory is very common for queer youth who face the sorts of things Becky has, she nonetheless has faith and a belief in God. And she believes said God has her back and answers lesbian prayers as exemplified by her by Dina’s second kiss and being saved from Toedad by Amazi-girl.
It is not really fair to put the kids in the same boat as the adults. They have had a lot less time to be brainwashed, and also happen to be at the “asking questions” age when these are the issues of the day to ask questions about.
I am so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so happy to see that hug. Becky has definitely needed a hug from someone she has known since before all this besides Joyce (not that Joyce-hugs are bad, but they come with a certain baggage right now).
I can’t help feeling it’s really selfish in this case. Joyce seems like she’s in this downward slump and maybe she just wants to talk to her parents in her own way…..but now Becky is barging in bc she what? Needs to reestablish her connection to Joyce after hearing that Joyce and dorothy were fake married. And just peace out on Dina without preparing her that she would be leaving for the weekend to stay with a girl to whom she recently professed her love? That seems incredibly selfish to me.
This is not a relaxing trip for Joyce. This is a confrontation with her parents about a belief she is quickly moving away from. To have Becky there as support and a reminder what she is fighting for might be very good for her.
Uh, I don’t know if you remember this, but Joyce and Becky talked about Becky tagging along on the road trip. So I mean, this isn’t really Becky being selfish, it’s:
Becky hoping that Mr. Brown will accept her for who she is, which doesn’t seem to much of an issue right now. Remember that whole deal with Ross? Becky needs a positive father figure right now.
Becky making herself known in the way that would be the least awkward way possible for her. How else would she tell Mr. Brown she’s tagging along?
So, in conclusion, Becky isn’t being selfish at all. Maybe a bit sudden, but it’s perfectly justified.
Oh my god, compare Becky’s faces the first four panels, from “you are not going to reject me… right?” to “Roadtrip!!!” I think her mask might even break a little during the hug.
Oh it definitely did. We know that the loss of family is pressing hard on Becks and that she’s hiding that fact from all her friends. And that moment is definitely where that is breaking, she is so relieved and scared.
My older brothers still pretend the 80s didn’t happen. And make sure to hide all the pictures of their mullets. And avoid all conversations regarding hairgel. Maybe Carol’s aversion to non-parental approved hairstyles is because she secretly experimented with growing an afro in college.
As for a serious answer, live in a secluded part of town where everybody have been conditioned to never disobey their parents and don’t interact with students who don’t come from the same neighborhood.
Well, the fundie community is fairly well insulated, especially in the homeschooled crowd.
Heck, my school actually had a judgement against them in the 70s that forbade them for not allowing someone to graduate because of their hair–facial hair, long hair, whatever. And they still had a “no unnatural hair colors” rule in the 90s-00s.
Aaaw… It’s official, Joyce gets her sweetness from her father. Now Joyce’s mother…she’s the one that worries me. Way back when Joyce defended Dorothy, just compare Hank’s face to his wife’s. Hank was accepting, whereas Mrs. Brown looked kinda pissed off… I also like how this makes the drama on the last comment section look ridiculous.
I’d like to share a little anecdote, if I may. I myself am a biromantic asexual, and in the circle of friends I have known from childhood, three of the guys were gay and two of the ladies were bi. I also have two bi cousins, and a gay uncle! Now, the mother of my two bi cousins was down here last summer for my graduation, and she was talking about how she expected me and my best friend to wind up together. My mom and I laughed, and told her that wasn’t happening, because he is gay. My aunt already knew about another friend being gay, one who happens to be my best friend’s step-brother, so to hear that two guys were gay, and from the same house…
She got a weird look on her face, and said “So two of them over there are GAY?”, as if it was weird. As if it were spreading or something. She even shook her head and laughed to herself. The next day of course, my aunt insisted to me that she was accepting of them both and even bragged about how she didn’t mind gays but it felt like overcompensation. It was weird… And to top it off, my aunt is Wiccan, so it’s not a religion thing…
My point with this anecdote is that, while Hank’s opinion on her sexuality is not yet known, he was very accepting and kind to Becky, which makes me optimistic. He certainly reacted better than my aunt.
This isn’t the first immediate ‘just found out’ reaction though, he’s known for quite a stretch of time. Who knows how much worse he could have been if this was Becky coming out of her closet, and not after the entire ‘kidnapped at gunpoint’ incident.
I’m not shocked. Despite the popular image of the stern patriarch, in fundie families, it’s often the wife who is the most … devout, and the husband is just sort of along for the ride. At least, that’s true in my experience.
We had an interesting bugaboo in my church where ours decided to sponsor the gay and straight alliance in our local college. Which didn’t so much cause an uproar in the city but confusion. Our pastor at the time was a cool guy like that, highlighting Christian traditions should ever trying to be more Christlike and improving not static.
Growing up and even in the church the rest of my family goes to now, I’ve noticed you have wonderful loving fathers more often with toxic Christian moms than you do nice women with evil fathers…
Here’s a not-so-pleasant thought: Becky is sure to swing by Toedad’s place to pick up some things (clothes, birth certificate, social security card, etc.). What if Toedad is out on bail and home? Sure, there should be absolutely no good reason that he should be allowed out on bail (continuing threat to the community and what not), but I have seen the wrong end of the legal system in Indiana in action and know that sometimes judges do whatever the hell they want. I will never forget hearing a judge say in court, “my decision might not be legal, but it is the right thing to do”. All it takes is for some jag like that to be in charge of Toedad’s case for him to be granted bail.
It seems unlikely to me from an out-story perspective. IIRC Willis said that one reason he went with the gun-chase-and-kidnapping story was to put an actual resolution to Ross, instead of having him hover over Becky as a threat indefinitely. I doubt he’d then bring him back in the next story, when there are whole new areas of conflict to explore with the Browns instead.
I don’t think they usually allow bail, or at least they don’t allow cheap bail for violent crimes like Toedad’s. Especially since he’s been demonstrated to be willing to go to extreme lengths to try and track down his victim.
You’re applying intention and jealousy where we have no indication that there is any, nor any evidence to suggest that Becky would target Joyce even if she was that spiteful. Criticize Becky if you wish, but try to do so within what’s relavent to the information Willis has provided through the comic so far, not speculation.
Yes. Becks is a supervillain. And she’s going to ruin Joyce’s life out of a “if I can’t have her, no one will” mentality. I agree with these sentiments very much. These are not lies.
Watch her. She considered it. Yesterday she hid until she saw he at least started out normal. That first panel today, the trademark Becky grin is nailed in place, but she’s terrified.
And Mr. Brown doesn’t completely fail at being a decent human being. Which is enough. For the moment.
This is kind of what I figured had happened. Joyce, being as distracted by her emotions and unraveling worldview as she was, forgot to mention that Becky might be coming along. Becky didn’t press the issue while her friend was hurting. Hank is not hip to the youths of today and their hairstyles. Awkwardness ensues!
I think that Jeremiah came out of the closet at some point and Joyce’s family has already come to terms with it. I think they love their kids more than anything and would be willing to reconsider the whole ‘gay thing’
Also, I feel that Joyce’s mom is going to say something that’s subtly bigoted at some point. From what I’ve seen, she isn’t much the type to ‘reconsider the whole gay thing’. Hank, maybe, depending. But I just can’t see it happening with Carol.
Jeremiah is Dorothy’s father, and therefore presumably (not that two people can’t have the same name, but he’s already got the tag so if Joyce has a relative by that name he’d have to be “other Jeremiah”) not actually the name of the person Random Commentator is thinking of.
If anyone in the family’s come out of the closet, I’m pretty sure Joyce hasn’t been informed. Her arc and a lot of her reactions would have been completely different.
Joshua (Joyce’s brother) told Ethan he’s the favorite kid because they know the least about him (shortly before revealing he signs his texts as Jocelyn). They definitely don’t know.
I’m wondering if Joyce actually wants Becky along on this trip… It doesn’t seem like she’s done a good job of communicating those reservations to Becky, if so. Of course, tension between Joyce and her sister-by-choice could help lead to the revelation that she has a sister-by-blood as well.
Would you like that damn mail order or emailed? We have overnight shipping for the mail order and it costs half as much, where email will cost twice as much and will be instant.
I just checked through the comments, and it doesn’t seem that anyone has mentioned this, so:
Joyce basically is David Willis in his first year of college, right? And I don’t know very much about his family history. But I do know one thing, and it’s relevant here, and I’m wondering if it’s related.
I guess Willis had to choose between supporting a gay friend or his family during an argument (it’s unlikely that Joyce’s mom will be able to control herself)
For all the people saying that Joyce’s Dad seems to be pretty reasonable but are predicting the opposite from her mom…
If her mom is going to be so bad he should be able to predict that. Bringing her along could just cause more pain and suffering for everyone involved, especially Becky as she will be the one stuck in someone else’s house. Maybe then it would have been better if he had just made up a crappy excuse.
Sorry Becky.. I really am glad to see you but if I bring you home my wife is going to eat you. Umm.. In the canabalistic way I mean… Not the other one… uh.. yah… glad you are safe. Do you need anything I can get you before we go?
This is why I’m saying I think it’s pretty likely that he’s the ‘abuse enabling’ type. Is reasonable and nice on his own, transforms into a mixture of doormat and brick wall when someone else he’s attached to is being a douchewagon.
I really want to like Hank.
I really like how he bonds with Joyce, i like his gentle camaraderie.
But When they flip over Jocelyne I will be so conflicted. I might even be tempted to make excuses for him. On the other hand he has a bunch of sons. He might like an another daughter.
I’ve been dreading this weekend ( as It could go through much of 2016? I havent checked ) . But now thats it here I think willis will surprise us.
We thinks this weekend is all about Joyce. Its not.
What if they are all having a big Family Dinner….
And Joyce is ready to get the 3rd fundie Degree for lying.
Jocelyne is about to come out.
Some Brother drama.
then Hank announces to everyones shock hes Gay.
Then JOyce’s mother says “I want a divorce”
Then Jocelyn says: “hey everybody I’m a women”
( Both parents Becky+ Joyce glare at her thinking shes making fun of each of them )
Dead silence. Then someone yells at Joshua for making Jokes.
A good thing I think we see with the Browns honestly. They genuinely love Joyce. They genuinely care about Becky. They’re wrong, and they do troubling and controlling things because of their particular brand of faith, but unlike Toedad they’re not necessarily “bad” people. Just very mistaken human beings who probably won’t be as willing to change as Joyce was. And there’ll be friction, but maybe not friction that completely severs Joyce from her family.
Oh definitely! They’re caught up in a world where what she said there is normal. But they’re not outwardly malicious or wanting to do harm like Toedad, was what I meant.
Which actually will probably make whatever happens sting all the more.
I am having a hard time understanding Becky’s motivation to be with Joyce’s parents.
Is it to support Joyce? Is it asserting Becky’s own independence and sense of new found self? I am assuming Becky was close to Joyce’s parents and that they are measurably less-awful than her own father. But Joyce’s parents are still a very specific kind of Christian, and are likely not thrilled about topics such as queerness.
I am just confused, though I am sure the story will explain her motivations in time.
The Browns keep earning points with me this time around. Sure, Joyce’s mom said pretty much the wrong thing last time, but that was just bad word choice with unfortunate implications, no ill intentions.
And now watch as Willis tears it all down. Or not, he may surprise us.
I really need to bookmark that one Tumblr post that Willis made after the last time that Carol appeared. It was more than the poor choice of words that Carol chose to say. Certainly she doesn’t think her own intentions are ill, but that doesn’t make it so.
I’m glad that Hank can be civil, even if that’s a low bar to clear. I don’t have my hopes up that this weekend will go well though.
It may have been bad word choice to use the phrase “I’d die for you”, but using the phrase “bless him” when referring to toe dad is NOT just bad word choice. She was actually minimizing the actions of kidnapping by suggesting he was just doing it to protect his daughter.
As I said back in that strip:
It can be, but the context isn’t right here. In that sense, it usually goes along with saying something insulting or gossipy about the other person. Here it comes with excuses for him.
I read it as “Kidnapping and guns and violent threats were too far of course, but he was right to try to save his daughter from sin.”
That’s what Joyce and Becky are walking into.
One of my favorite anime/Japanese video game reviewers has one (with the different colored hair, too). And she talks about her husband–and actually took a break when he came back from being deployed.
I don’t know why everyone is so surprised by Hank’s reaction. He was the calm, collected parent when it came to Joyce choosing to be friends with an atheist.
Becky practically grew up with Joyce. She’s pretty much a second daughter to Hank. Nothing we’ve seen in Hank’s character has shown that he would reject Becky for being gay.
You know, for whatever reason it’s suprising me to see Joyce and her dad talking to each other like people. I keep expecting them to, I don’t know, communicate entirely in bible passages or something.
I mean, their neighbor almost got their daughter killed and their daughter’s best friend was nearly kidnapped by their now insane neighbor. Just saying, you can’t justiy what he did with ANY form of religious stuff…
THey seemed pretty rational in the main!Walkyverse, so I’m hoping they are here…
today in #9chickweedlane i learned we have to be shown children learning and relearning what sex is, for Reasons, even though they already clearly know and have prepared nuanced questions about it!
also that Gran must hate, if she's still alive, how Old Juliette is the same but with gray hair
one of my favorite things is when a commenter explodes WHEN DO THESE CHARACTERS GET THERAPY but directed towards a character who canonically has a regular therapist
Hot Toys Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith 1/6 Scale Darth Vader Deluxe ($495) & Standard ($315) is up for preorder at Sideshow - shrsl.com/4wcx6 #ad
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 2d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
wilbur, savvy enough to know he's in a comic strip but still not a great actor, awkwardly lifts a muffin up into frame so that we, the audience, understand that he has a muffin right now, which is very important narratively, but he's not really selling it well as an organic, human action
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 2d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 11d
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…where’s the ka-boom?
There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering ka-BOOM!
There wasn’t any closets nearby.
I had a feeling she was gonna ask to come along.
…I assumed Becky’s dad already knew. Apparently no.
Joyce’s dad. Becky’s dad is busy getting his vertebrae back together.
And jail.
Maybe he knows but isn’t going to be a dick about it? While they may not be supportive of her sexuality, the Browns know Becky well, and presumably care about her.
This is my take. If he still thought she was straight he would be smiling in panel 1 instead of “not running my face right now while I figure out how I feel and what I want to do”.
He chose wisely.
Mom pretty obviously knew what was going on, by the convo with Joyce. I can’t see her keeping it from Joyce’s dad. And that’s why this comic judo-chopped me right in the feels. “Oh, of course. Always, of course.” No hesitation, no waffling. A declaration of unconditional support. I know he holds views I consider to be tragically monstrous, but right at this moment… Love that man.
Looks as though he got all his hesitation out of the way in panel one. I think I like him.
Basically He has prob watch Becky grow up. She is like a sister to Joyce, in his eyes. So He is pleased to see her. He doesn’t fully endorse or agree with her chocies, but unlike her actual father isn’t a c*ntwhistle.
“Care about her” doesn’t necessarily mean “are willing to accept/ignore her sexuality”. It could also mean anything from “thinks it’s a phase she’ll grow out of” to “thinks Ross had the right idea but didn’t implement it very well”.
They may be….hidebound in their beliefs, but I’ve always
gotten the image that Joyce’s parents are truly good people.
I laughed at this far harder than I should have. xD
Back to the old drawing board.
That’s not a nice nickname for Mrs. Brown.
Sorry, no Earth-shattering ka-boom for you today.
Apparently, some long-eared Earthling has run off with the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator…
“No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There’s always a boom tomorrow. “
Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova’s recommendations. Ivanova is God.
Hmm, I could see Ruth as Ivanova…
Does that make Billie Talia?
Sure as heck not Marcus.
Ivanova is my patronus.
I could almost see Dina as Delenn. But that just leads to the question — who is Zathas?? (I mean Zathras, not Zathras or Zathras)
“Knowing, would say. Not knowing, can not say.”
(Probably misquoted)
“Saying, I would know. Do not know, so cannot say.”
You’re too young to experience that much pain…
Yeah, I could see Ruth saying that.
Would that make Mike into Garibaldi or Kosh?
You know it’s gonna be a good day when you see B5 quotes in the morning!
So good to see more B5 fans still out there.
At one point, the only reason I could think of for living was in order to see B5 season 5.
Good thing it got renewed.
Or was it?
Nope. Good thing all the major plot threads were wrapped up at the end of Season 4. Shame we never really got a Season 5, though. Heh.
Well, maybe we got one or two episodes, as I recall.
It’s a REAL shame about Crusade, though. That was awesome. If I can’t have Marcus on my screen, I should definitely have Galen there.
(Or, let’s face it, anywhere.
)
I always kinda felt that I should’ve been more into B5 as I love SF so much, but I was am and always will be a Star Trek guy (well, Trek second…Doctor Who first! :D)
I only ever fully saw two whole episodes of Babylon 5, and they probably did not help matters any for me, as the two eps in question were “Babylon Squared” and “Deconstruction of Falling Stars”, arguably two of the most confusing episodes of the whole effin’ series.
Y’all heard that JMS is working on a script for a new B5 Movie, right?
SQUEEEE!!!
[kosh]
Excellent
[/kosh]
I love the smell of B5 quotes in the morning! Smells like… geekery.
But that wasn’t true yesterday. Yesterday’s tomorrow has no boom.
Even though I’ve just made the argument on the basis that induction cannot be assumed in all universes, and we can’t show a contradiction based on extrapolation from the future to the past.
I defend myself: “there’s” means “there is.” Obviously, this cannot be in the present, because it’s tomorrow. Therefore, it is a general statement across all times.
No I suspect it’s going to be Joyce’s mother that detonates. I previous encounters she’s seemed the strident one, Joyce’s dad however seems to possess the quality otherwise known as tact.
Oh your comment was so funny to see first waking up. I had to mute my laughter because my hubs is still asleep right next to me.
*sigh* Delays, delays… now, where did my spare Illudium PU-32 Explosive Space Mdulator go?
Hank was not expecting this, but is handling it very well. You can see him thinking real hard real fast in panel 1 and panel 3.
I agree! It’s really refreshing to see an adult acting like an adult / good person. I know it can’t last, but, it’s nice. ^^
Hank confirmed for Chill Parent
Thank God Hank is reasonable.
Seriously. I’m expecting that his wife will not be as accepting.
I’ma predict Hank as one of those ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ types. Only time will tell.
..but anyway hooray for the Dad Hug, that’s just what needed to happen at this moment, yay.
I’m predicting Hank is going to be a “oh, yeah, they’re wrong, but, y’know, it’s just way too much effort to actually engage with them / try to protect those I care about, when I can just victim blame and/or seem better by contrast later” type.
Pretty awesome to be one-on-one with. But in a genuinely awful interaction with someone else, entirely useless at best, awkwardly supportive of the party-he-knows-is-wrong-but-also-kind-of-in-charge at worst.
I might or might not be projecting a lot from my own family >_>
Anyway, yay Hank! And yay Becky for knowing him well!
I see what you did there.
I figured it was the hair cut that had him in shock.
That went better than expected… kinda disappointed.
At this point in storyline things must become slightly better before really going downhill!
Which will happen in La Porte, i suppose. Well, highest point in La Porte is 957 feet above sea level, so downhill trips there are going to end on the ground soon!
Damn. Maybe Becky’s Dad is totally sane.
Joyce’s.
Yeah, Becky’s dad is nuttier than a Payday bar.
He didn’t realise he became what he usually eats.
He eats toes?
He eats assholes?
He ate a fat bigot?
Holy crap, has anyone checked on Rush Limbaugh recently?
I haven’t but that’s mostly because I feel the longer I ignore the more likely it is that he will be cannibalised.
You know, until I was eight I thought that a bigot was a type of bread, akin to a baguette or a bagel or a biscuit. So you’re not as far off as you thought.
“And what kind of bread would you like with your eggs, sir?”
“I’ll have a lightly toasted bigot, please.”
“Um… I’ll check with the cook.”
This made me laugh out loud in the DMV. Thank you.
Guess he must have really chowed down on the toe-blerones.
He helped raise Joyce as the fundie we know and love, and might have been the one going “why are you friends with an atheist, let us pray”, so I wouldn’t go as far as totally sane. Core of decency, maybe.
Is more that he’s the nicer fanatic, mom is the crazy one
But he also helped raise her to be the compassionate and loving person she is. This is something I didn’t think about yesterday, but it’s important to remember. At her core, Joyce is a good person, and maybe she got more of that from her dad than we gace h credit for. I don’t by any means think he’s perfect, but this is a good reminder that nobody is black and white.
It’s a skin condition.
Vitiligo.
Except for Blaine
And Mary
and Toe-dad
And maybe Joyce’s mom.
A compassionate and loving person that behaved like this when learning that Ethan is gay.
It is no wonder that homophobia spreads in fundie communities. They portray queer people as aliens/monsters/satan worshippers, not as normal humans.
That’s hardly exclusive to fundies, dude. I was raised liberal Catholic, my mom never talked about gay people being bad and it rarely came up in church. But I’d been raised on TV, comics, classmates, and the wider culture using “gay” as an insult and treating LGBTQ people as the “Other.” Even positive portrayals had gay people being sassy best friends or sad AIDS patients, not everyday PEOPLE. So the first time I saw a real-life openly gay person (he was a choreographer showing my high school freshman year acting class how to dance), I was flabbergasted.
I whispered to the kid sitting next to me “that guy’s gay!”
The kid looked at me, puzzled. “…yeah? And?”
I’d been taunted as a fag and a homo for years in my old (public!) schools for being in theater. This indifference did not compute. “He’s…he’s so gay!”
“Why do you care?”
And lo, I realized: why did I care? It was a long road going from that, to 1) at least being okay with gayness, to 2) being comfortable around LGBTQ people, to 3) eventually not thinking of them as some Other Kind of People because they were people just like me, to 4) realizing and admitting to myself that I was bisexual as hell and had been since 5th grade. But the first step was, with no malice, being genuinely shocked to see an in-the-flesh gay person existed.
Same. Well, similar.
Perhaps he’s where Joyce got her core of decency.
Fundies are people too. Take it from an ex fundie with ex fundie parents: we were all ‘we need to spread the gospel whether people like it or not’ and my parents may have even wanted me to not be friends with atheists (I certainly wouldn’t be allowed to date any) but if I had a Becky they would have loved and accepted her just like Hank here.
The way I see it, it so far appears that Hank is a good person with a few very harmful beliefs, in contrast to Ross, who is a horrible person. Hank listened to Joyce when she stood up to him and accepted Becky. Toedad has no respect for his daughter.
tldr he’s a perfectly sane and good guy, he just has issues.
The word that cinched it for me is “always”. That’s a hefty word, especially in religious circles. It’s not something he can walk back easily. To utter it so readily, so easily, is just huge.
… S’cuse me, I’m all verklempt, talk amongst yourselves.
Personally, it was the smile on his face in the next panel. He loves her like a daughter.
This.
That was supposed to be a response to ” I wouldn’t go as far as totally sane. Core of decency, maybe.”
I’ve got to learn to be more specific.
Haha “This.” can either be a super specific or very general response, depending.
Oh thank god. That could have been so, so much worse.
And yet I fear this will lull us into a false sense of security.
Wait until they meet up with the exorcist…
Yeah, things will definitely get bad, real bad this weekend. But it’s nice to see a nice glimmer of hope so that the bad will properly scar us.
My new fear is that Hank might keep his daughter but lose his wife.
Losing a wife via divorce is sad but losing the house, half your shit and alimony really sucks.
Probably, but to most people losing a child would be worse. Whether Mr (or Mrs) Brown is most people remains to be seen, but I’m holding out hope that they’re the basically ok variety of fundamentalist bigots.
That sounds more like a hope than a fear.
That would be unfortunate for Hank but not entirely unheard of. I may be being way to optimistic, but Hank is kinda giving off the feeling that he might be one of those people whose world view changes completely when someone close to them comes out. One of those people who, once the “other” becomes closer to home they realize it’s nothing to be afraid of.
If there’s a betting pool, my money’s on ‘he thinks she’s sinning, and doesn’t believe in what she’s doing, but is still going to be loving and supportive (of her, not her “choices”), because “kid needs family values and moral authority who are good people especially after what her dad did and forcing god on her right now is only going to send her farther from the church”, and won’t say anything negative to her face, but expresses doubts to Joyce (or stresses how important it is that she be a guiding light in the darkness or some such for Becky) and has a lot of LONG conversations with his wife and their preacher’.
Tl;dr -“love the sinner, hate the sin, but don’t be a jerk about any of it”. (and maybe warm up to the idea in several years or decades in-comic time? Please? Becky can has happy ending?)
I have the impression that on the hate scale, Hank is probably a 2 in that he has a wrong and bigoted view about homosexuality–i.e that it’s wrong but he’s not of the idea that it’s EVIL and dehumanizing. Which is going to be a major problem with his wife as so many other people seem to think it is THE demon sin. This may result in him losing that 2 as he realizes just how crazy his surrounding family and friends are. The difference I suppose between prejudice and goose-stepping Klansman like Toedad.
That seems likely. The positive of that worldview is that it looks like Becky won’t be being directly rejected by the closest thing she’s got to back-up parents today.
A betting pool would be a bad idea.
Next thing you know, millions of dollars are at stake and burly men in dark suits are staring off into the middle distance saying “You know, Mr. Willis, it would be a terrible tragedy if your fingers were to get broke.”
So don’t go there.
Not a problem for Willis who has ninjas at his disposal.
(See top of the page, right next to the comments: It says “betting pool” right there).
Remember Joyce realizing why her family changed churches so many times? Also, remember Joyce’s mother commenting not on the sin of Becky, but on feeling sorry for her dad?
I think we’ll cut away from Joyce and family now, because this is the answer to her fears of just minutes ago.
On the upside, if that actually happens his other daughter might actually feel like she’d be able to let him know that he has another daughter.
Good call- easy to forget how complex that family is, and how beneficial this could eventually be for its more vulnerable members.
The story’s still in a different city than Carol. Things will get…exciting, then.
I’m very sure that the disaster has only been postponed, not averted.
“They say hope was the last thing to escape from Pandora’s box. They always say that like it was the one good thing that escaped with all the bad.”
I though hope was the thing that stayed in the box.
Depends which version of the story you hear. It’s definitely not one of the more well-translated myths out there (for example: the “box” was more of a storage jar than an actual box)
Amphora?
The version I always heard was that at first hope got trapped inside when they slammed the lid back down trying to keep any other evils from escaping, then years later someone else discovered the box and opened it up to see what was inside and released hope.
Then whether hope itself was the gods having pity on us and including one good thing to help us withstand all the trials released from the box or if it is the greatest evil of them all because it keeps us from just accepting ‘Okay, life just sucks now thanks to Pandora opening that box so there’s no point in wanting anything different’ so we can be beat down by them again and again depends on whether the person telling the story wants to go with a downer ending or not.
The version I heard was that what got kept in the box was the knowledge of all the bad things that would happen in the future. With this knowledge, humanity would lose hope. In that way hope was saved, but it was never in the box.
That’s certainly the more poetic version.
But is the truth, as Hitchcock observed, in the box?
The box contains a cat.
But is the cat dead or alive?
Ash? Is that you?
This is Willis. The more cheerful and heartwarming , the deeper the horribleness to come.
…
Okay, so not only is Joycemom gonna divorce Joycedad over his unwillingness to cast Becky into the Lake of Fire with his own bare hands, she’s also gonna marry Toedad while he’s in prison?
I doubt the marrying Toedad bit. That would require the marriage to be consummated. And no one wants to have sex with Toedad, even to spite an ex husband.
I’m actually hoping it goes the other way. I want the issues with Joyce’s parents addressed, but…
Becky’s been through enough awfulness. I know the comic’s a soap opera with wiener jokes and superheroes, but there’s only so much tragedy a main character can go through before it gets frustrating to read. I’d much rather see a low-key confrontation where Joyce’s mother realizes she’s being cruel than an all-out CAST OUT THIS EVIL FROM MY HOUSE throwdown where we’re reminded, again, how unhealthy and backwards Joyce’s community is.
Yay! Joyce’s dad for the win! ^_^
By Becky’s standards, he’s the best dad ever.
Wait until she meets Joe’s dad.
‘Yay, hugs! … Please stop hugging me.’
Oh hello there hannelore
It was only a matter of time before fictional characters invaded the world’s comment sections!
And someday all the AI webcomic characters looks around and realize that there are no actual meatspace humans left.
Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst. At least, as best I can really.
DAMN YOU WIL– Actually this kind of turned out nice for once. Thanks, Willis.
Don’t get comfy. Calm before the storm, and alla that.
Hooray! For once my hopeful optimism has been pleasantly rewarded.
Oh thank god her parents are like how they were in It’s Walky
Was worried that they might actually be insane
We have yet to prove they aren’t insane.
They may just be better at hiding it.
Let’s hope they aren’t TOO much like they were in It’s Walky!
Mrs. Brown: Becky, when are you going to get my daughter pregnant?
Becky: Workin’ on it!
Joyce: MOM! That’s not how it works!
Mrs Brown: I don’t care! I want grandkids!
I don’t know Joyce there may be a way to after all.
Hi, Tabby! Joe, hurry up and become an engineer so Tabby can exist someday.
Goes to the same Sex Ed class as Ruth’s brother Howard?
Probably taught Howard.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one thinking it.
How I desperately wish that this is the route taken.
Is anyone else remembering the shouts of YOU KNOW WHO ELSE WAS JEWISH PROBABLY? HITLER!
I feel like you’re all talking about someone else entirely.
I was thinking about this as well– rose-colored glasses, I guess.
I think we’re forgetting his idiotic historical misinformation, in favour of that Dad-Hug towards Becky at just the right moment. He may not know about the world, but he knows how to treat a person standing right in front of him, and that’s a very decent start.
Holy shit I remember you from pokefarm.
Called it Becky is joining in on the fun.
Good news: Nobody is screaming at Becky yet.
Bad news: The key word in the good news is “yet”.
My guess is that there will be no screaming.
My bet is prolonged, awkward silences, tears and the slamming of doors.
What?! Mr. Brown’s a nice guy?! Who knew?!
Joyce’s dad seemed like the (moderately)nmore understandable one during freshman family weekend, so good on him.
Yeah, he wasn’t perfect but he did listen to Joyce and let her reason. He also was friendly about saying she’s like the older brother who her mom doesn’t always agree with.
(This wasn’t about her sister Jocelyn (their favourite), it was about one of her older brothers. Just before someone misremembers freshmen family weekend and thinks I’m misgendering)
That brother is Jordan, who, I think, is the third child (John, then Joc, then Jordan, then Joyce, if I’m remembering correctly).
Even then, from their perspective it wouldn’t be mis-gendering, as Jocelyn is still in the closet (or whatever the trans equivalent of the closet is?).
Pretty sure it’s still the closet, although I might be mistaken, since I was in several nested closets.
..dressing room, perhaps?
It’s like a closet for people who are trying to find the right clothes to express who they are, and are hesitant about stepping outside of the room [straight into a public space!] to display themselves in the manner that they find most suitable for them.
You know, you could have found the strip (and by extension Jordan’s name) by doing a tag search for Hank instead of borrowing a confrontation.
Ok yeah but before the Fountain Showdown he was the one who lead the Taking it to God.
I just realized that “Fountain Shadow” could refer to either Jouce standing up to her parents for Dorothy OR the Gunman pointing his gun at Becky & Joyce.
Holy shit that fucking fountain.
The fountain is evil. It must be destroyed.
Perhaps it just needs a tasteful sweater.
You think it might be that there were just so many of them? I mean, the dynamic of having the whole family coming into a fairly delicate social situation? (Not to say anyone ‘had’ anything to be cautious about, but if one side is expecting ‘homecoming and food!’ and the other is all ‘this is how my life changed since I got here…’, someone’s gonna have to change plans, and having so many of them at once didn’t help).
skrillex cuts aren’t for the fundie hearted.
IT’S SO SCANDALOUS!! *faints*
Overly asymmetrical haircuts and fashions are a pet-peeve of mine.
Is that what it’s supposed to be? Someone I read this with suggested it was (shock!) one of Meghan Trainor’s backup dancers’ hairdos.
I need new reading buddies.
It’s closer to that one, though the dancer seems to have shorter bangs.
Eh, I kinda hate her haircut myself, and I’m pretty far from fundie
I don’t like the way you can still she her eyes on top of her bangs. It looks like they’re floating there and it creeps me out.
But other than that, it’s a pretty cool style.
I’m writing this in advance, because I feel this is important to note early in the discussion.
I would like to make a small request to this thread given the last one. If you’re about to write a post about how Becky is awful and is ruining Joyce’s trip and etc, please just take an extra minute before hitting post to just think about it and if you really do stand by that sentiment. Just double check that you would say the same thing about a heterosexual character who exhibited the same traits.
I’m not saying don’t post it. I’m not saying you’re not allowed to hate Becky for even the dumbest of reasons (grr, red hair killed my parents). I’m not here to take away anyone’s self-expression. It’s just…
I’ve been where Becky has been too many times. I’ve personally been told many times that I deserved bad things that happened to me because I was trans in public, or being stupid to say the wrong thing to a bigot, or by “shoving my way of life in other people’s faces”. I’ve been blamed more times than I can count for the transphobia and homophobia of others, for their reactions to my existence. And I’ve been scarred by needing to be “that perfect girl” to balance it.
I know I’m just one person. But, those comments on the last thread hit me way too hard because it was like I was right back there in those life experiences being surrounded by so much of it. And that really did trigger feelings of not being safe. I’m not saying that’s on you.
I’m just saying, double check yourself. Because the accumulation of these moments for so little of a cause may have an effect far beyond your intent especially for those who’ve been where Becky is and I just ask you, beg you, please just make sure you feel your statement about Becky intends that.
Please just double-check your intentions. For a single moment. And then post anyways if that’s what you feel is right and fair.
*Internet hug*
Getting reminded of dumb awful thoughtless abuse because of dumb thoughtless comments sucks. It really, really does. I am sorry you got reminded of that stuff.
Thank you for saying this, and for getting it up early; hopefully people will see it
I want to let you know that you have all my sympathies. Can I try giving you an over-the-Internet hug for comfort?
Nah, I totally get where Becky is right now. Her whole world’s been rent asunder, partly by her own doing, but in large part by her dad going off the deep end. I don’t think she knows it, but she’s looking for something comfortable. How well this goes we shall have to see.
wow. this was an amazingly reasonable response. you took feelings of hurt that came as an unintended consequence of comments that people made probably without much thought, and you weighed them up and gave a fair, blameless plea for introspection. i think i really like you as a person. even though i realize this comment isn’t intended to be cheery, i do want to thank you for posting it, because it’s people being reasonable in response to negative feelings like this that gives me hope for humanity. not to overstate it or anything…
that aside, i really do hope that when people are calling becky ‘rude’ it is because of her butting in and not in a ‘lifestyle in our faces’ way. i have found her a bit abrasive sometimes, but seeing with what she’s trying to deal with in her life right now (dad, identity, homelessness, cashlessness, uncertain future), i think that trying to stick by joyce for a little solace might be reasonable. and if she’s doing it to be there for joyce, then imagine trying to be selfless when things are that hard. i think everyone gets the benefit of the doubt for now. let’s hope joyce’s mom ends up on the nice side of this
I want to say that I totally agree with this comment, as one of the people who was calling Becky “rude”, as you say. I think I speak for most people when I say I’m not trying to hurt anyone, nor do I think Becky is being particularly unreasonable. I just think that, regardless of other traits, I thought Becky might get a warmer response if she approached a little more gently.
Of course, it seems Hank is doing pretty well anyway, so the point appears moot
Also, pretty sure Becky is trying to help Joyce by giving her back-up.
I wouldn’t say that she’s ruining Joyce’s trip, I’d say she’s sticking her head into a beartrap for very silly reasons. She’s spent her entire arc trying to escape these circumstance, what the hell is she diving right back into the situation.
Sometimes you need pick your battles, and this really isn’t the hill Becky should be fixing to die on. She should be focusing on building her new life, and leaving her old one in the dust.
We don’t know her reasons, though. She might have very good ones, she might have very bad ones. We don’t really know what they are for the moment.
Gotta wait and see how this plays out.
I don’t think there can be much doubt this is entirely motivated by Dorothy related jealousy, anything else would require a level of thought and pre-planning I am not willing to credit Becky with, she’s just too impulsive for it not to be.
Actually if there is a reason to be pissed (which I’m not, I’m just facepalming at her poor choice) with Becky it’s that she’s ignoring Dina and proving Sarah right.
Becky was planning to come with Joyce since several comics ago. http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/elsewhere/
Oh wow, I forgot about that, I was about to glare at Becky for inviting herself along so suddenly.
Thank you for the reminder.
Thank you for finding that. No-one brought it up in the last few comics and I was beginning to think I’d imagined it.
This has nothing to do with Dorothy, this is entirely about Becky providing support to her best friend. This is about her making sure Joyce doesn’t have to face her parents alone in case things go to shit. This is about Joyce not getting trapped into the same kind of situation she got trapped into with her father.
The fuck? How does this have anything even remotely to do with Dorothy? Becky and Joyce talked about Joyce not going home alone. Becky knows Joyce is worried and anxious and she wants to be there for her best friend.
I’m glad someone else is concerned about Dina. Becky has been good with her (making sure she’s okay, feels included, etc) but I think this just solidifies in Dina’s mind that she’s still number two.
Because all her clothing and belongings that she didn’t take with her to Anderson are there and she could sell off some things to feel like less of a burden on everyone around her/be the one treating Dina to a nice day out?
Her old life includes Joyce and she’s not leaving Joyce in the dust. Especially when Joyce is worried she’s going to spend the whole trip being hassled and guilted and prayed at about her support for Becky.
She should be focusing on building her new life, and leaving her old one in the dust.
Building her new life actually requires her to go back to La Porte!
She needs her social security card and other documents that are in her father’s house.
(>^.^)> <(^.^<)
Thank you for saying this. I am sorry that you've had to go through that, and I will keep this response in mind not only here, but in other places as well.
Becky shouldn’t come on the trip, because she invited herself, and it’s terrible manners to invite yourself to someone elses house
Not if you’ve been best friends forever. Then it’s about the same as inviting yourself to your own house.
She already said she would come along in an earlier strip though, as is mentioned a few comments above by Sadie and linked to when she says it.
Joyce was feeling anxious about this trip. Also, I feel like Becky may also be coming just in case there are moments where she might be left alone outside because her family doesn’t know about the Ryan thing and while Joyce’s recent anger has kept her fear subdued… I can imagine them saying something in a casual manner which triggers the memories to flood back.
*light touch sympathy*
Seriously, you are awesome. Thanks for raising the quality of the commentator field.
Sympathy via heavy internet contact.
I know I’ve said this like once a day for the past several, but Cerberus, you’re my hero.
I can understand that, and Becky is a very sympathetic character, and her actions here are very forgivable given her circumstances.
But they’re just that, “forgivable.” Not “good” not “bad” just “forgivable.” Because without context this is emotional manipulation, springing the question at the exact moment all parties can’t say no. It could be well intentioned, like Becky really wants to know there can be decent parents in this world after her own family life just had the final nail put in the coffin, but we are forgetting one other party in this equation: Dina.
You see, this proves Sarah completely and 100% right.
Not saying Becky deserves comeuppance or is even a bad person (nobody deserves anything). But her actions here are still selfish. Completely forgivable and not necessarily “bad,” but definitely selfish.
But she offered several comics ago and Joyce did not object. Like, this is palpably about her supporting Joyce. That is a good thing, even if it doesn’t have a good impact.
Oh, I forgot about that entirely. That changes the context a lot. While I still think she has poor timing, I guess it’s not as selfish as I thought.
im also one of the ones who thought becky shouldnt have birsted in like that and from my own perspective i wouldve liked going home alone if i was joyce, but its mot because of her sexuality at all. sexuality doesnt matter to me, and neither does being trans. i always treat people by their actions and personalities. im sorry you had to go through those things
(also forgot to mention that im gay)
When thinking “I would have liked going home alone”, did you take into account just how anxious and fearful Joyce was about this visit? This isn’t about her happily visiting her safe&warm place, this is about her diving into a nest of vipers and trying to pretend to not be questioning her faith and pretty much entire worldview.
Not to mention the part where Becky needs to go to HER OWN home, and I don’t mean like ‘Joyce’s family might as well be hers’, I mean like literally ‘they are neighbours’.
Becky needs a lift to pick up her documents if nothing else. She NEEDS THIS TRIP FOR HERSELF, for fuck’s sake. She’s not JUST a stage decoration in the drama of Joyce’s life.
Cerberus, you’re my favourite poster in these comment threads. I always look out for what you’ve got to say if I’m not sure what I think or how I feel about something brought up in the comics. There’s a lot of stuff you’ve enabled me to understand by the way you wrote about it. And even if I don’t reach the same conclusion as you, you help me reach *a* conclusion, by having a well-defined viewpoint that I can compare and contrast with what I think. *lifts a glass to the inimitable Cerberus*
/me lifts his glass too, and gets ready to buy the next round.
As always thank you Cerberus. Your efforts to bring a bit of context and empathy into discussions of charged issues is always greatly appreciated.
More than ever, thank you. You’re just a fundamentally decent person, and I appreciate the thoughtfulness you bring here and how you challenge me to think.
For what little it’s worth, the way people were responding to your perfectly reasonable explanation/defense of Becky is why I finally felt like commenting. Unless a person is going out of their way to hurt others, demonizing them is…confusing among other things. Thank you trying to add some empathy to a world starving for it. You’re good people. And generally, if people like a character, there are positive qualities to be found there. Would that we all remember that.
Sorry that happened; one day, I sincerely hope that the concept of gender (beyond “This is the part of reproduction my physical body does”) will be seen as ridiculous.
Meanwhile, you got it. Take care, okay? *Hugs*
You have my respect. I’m just hoping that people will actually read the whole thread instead of knee-jerk posting. So much of yesterday was just the same thing over and over.
Aw, Hank’s not being completely terrible.
What kind of DoA dad is he?
A decent one.
To be fair, the line between shittiness and decency for dads in this comic is like, below sea level at this point, so…
The faux-sympathetic abuse enabling kind, is my bet.
“Well yeah we alll know how your mother is… You shouldn’t have provoked her… She gets upset and unreasonable…”
I’m too cynical for this, I’m waiting for this to go horribly, horribly wrong. I should pre-cry.
Part of me wonders if Hank is the less evangelical of the two parents. I imagine he’d be more open to Joyce’s changes if he was able to act alone more often.
I believe Willis has said that his father was less fervent about things than his mother, so since Joyce is partially autobiographical, Hank being more chill would make sense.
When he hinted at wa nting Joyce to branch out her life experiences a bit more, I was hoping that meant he was more… approachable than Becky’s dad.
Although to be honest I can’t tell whether I think Becky is being rude here, or if it makes perfect sense for her to cling to some kind of family.
Why not both? She’s being rude for perfectly understandable reasons.
And “more approachable than Becky’s dad” has to be some sort of platonic ideal of the proverbial low bar to clear. ^_^
beck clark curry ??????
beck clark curry curry land???????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????
is it really like this?
so disorganised?
ugh it messed up the spacing
Pretty sure that’s the wall of PO boxes for all the students to get their mail in, and the labels above them show which wings are assigned to those banks of PO boxes. Nothing too disorganized about that.
(why anyone puts as much attention into the details of the irrelevant background of a comic strip as this is beyond me)
Presumably that’s how the actual wall of boxes is organized, so it’s not just an irrelevant comic background.
*plays Supertramp’s “Take the Long Way Home” on the hacked Muzak*
Y’know, whenever I see this comment, it somehow makes me think of this gif:
http://i.imgur.com/Rc3Oilf.gif
Must be the “hacked Muzak” part.
They didn’t hack the Gibson… or the planet.
Hooray, Hank’s not a total asswipe!
I mean, he is a little bit of an asswipe, but not totally!
This went a bit more smoothly than I anticipated. Now I’m scared.
So all the comments seem happy about this, and all I can feel is endless dread at how much the last panel reflects Toedad’s hair comments.
Seems more like a stereotypical dad worried about the mom overreacting
Yeah, I’m really hoping Mr. Brown is genuinely chill, and his comment is more “Kids these days” and less “I’ll strap her down, you get me an old priest and a young priest!”
Not necessarily. Hank’s statement comes of more as “I’m 40 and stupid teen haircut is stupid” than “I’m 40 and that haircut is a sign that Satan has infested her soul”.
Nevermind, I misread it. I initially read “prepare for *a* haircut,” not “prepare for *that* haircut.”
am i the only one who was expecting this happy greeting?
Presumably Willis knew about it. Although I personally like to think that Shortpacked comic where he claims he just leaves all the work to employees and hits the golf course with Jim Davis is the truth, and he’s just as shocked as we are every night at midnight.
“They made Ethan GAY?!”
I like your world. Don’t want to live there, but I definitely like it.
That had to be one of Willis’ better punchlines.
nah i pretty much expected it. part because he seems like a genuinely good dad who tries to do the right thing, and also because if he mistreated becky joyce would not get in the car with him and the storyline would be over
joyces mom may be a different story
Actually expecting, and not just hoping? Yeah, maybe. I thought it wouldn’t be too bad, but this was pretty much the best case scenario!
Same as LimeSheep. I might have expected less hugs and genuine smiles and more awkwardness, but that’s details I haven’t really given much thought to. I expected there to be no explosion of sudden homophobia/asshattery and for him to warmly agree to take Becky along.
Not only was this not the right narrative place for the fight to happen – for all the reasons pointed out last page about how it would have been the safest option – but also this is a pretty reasonable human thing to expect?…
Yessssssss
I like how you can SEE him making a conscious decision to treat Becky normally. He knows enough about what’s happened to think “whatever else is going on, Becky needs a Dad Hug more than anything else.”
He might have other things to say later, but for now, he’s just going to be the dad she needs.
(In my best marble-gargling accent)
I’m the dad that Becky deserves,
But not the one she NEEDS.
I would like to think that, if someone I knew’s dad tried to shoot them, I’d have a comforting word and a hug.
Well, tbh, probably just the hug because even now with all the time in the world and no pressure, I can’t imagine what the right thing to say to that might be. (“Sorry your Dad snapped”? )
And not only does he make this decision, it’s made out of genuine warmth. Look at his smile when Becky’s back is turned. He really does love her, it’s not just a politeness / indulge daughter / bring back lost sheep thing.
just, ^^
Congratulations, Hank! You just won the The “Not-As-Much-Of-A-Jerk-As-You-Could-Have-Been Award”!
… Wow.
Me, yesterday (not here, elsewhere): ‘I hope Hank’s reaction is “Becky! What did you do to your hair?! Well, hop in the car, let’s go.” But I’m not holding out much hope.’
Me, today: ‘My “best case” scenario was underestimating him?’
Bravo, Mr Brown, bravo.
Agreed. He did good.
Now let’s see if he can keep it up.
…………
“but at least he thought he was doing the right thing. right?”
just saying, before we start expecting warm-fuzzies at the browns’.
i actually think that that line would be a remarkably kind and dispassionate appraisal if we didn’t all know what it was meant to represent
Yeah, I’m still waiting for this to go to shit.
I mean, he MIGHT have been saying “He’s delusional, but he is good at heart” instead of “Well, I guess that was kind of an overreaction but she is homosexual after all”
Probably not, though
Wait, wasn’t it Joyce’s mom who said that? I thought she was talking to her mom, who seems much less rational about this stuff than the dad.
On the phone, I’m pretty sure that was Joyce’s mom.
Oh.
Everything is going better than expected.
… I know that this is Dumbing of Age and I should be waiting for that inevitable shoe to drop, but I just… really want to be optimistic about this. I want Joyce’s parents to be sympathetic and capable of growth and, you know, not being tremendous shitheads.
I want something undeniably good to happen to these characters for a change.
(Of course, now that I’ve said that, things are going to go horribly horribly wrong, aren’t they. Insert preemptive Willis damning here.)
This is Willis we’re talking about. Shit will happen at the worst possible moment.
That’s overly specific and you know it.
…
Shit will happen at EVERY possible moment.
Considering that today’s comic is a possible moment and shit didn’t happen I have problems with the way you use the word ‘will’ in combination with the word ‘every’. It implies that under no circumstances would a possible moment have no amount of shit, but on this very page there is a contradiction to that statement. I will grant you though, since we’re talking about Willis, that we have a legitimate reason to expect shit to happen in every possible moment.
One variation on Murphy’s Law is :”If something could have gone wrong but didn’t, it would have been more beneficial in the long run if it had gone wrong.”
Only if you assume it’s inductive. It’s possible that in the future there will be no non-shitty moments, even if in the present there are shitty moments.
…Playing devil’s advocate, obviously, even though it can be inferred that Reltzik and TheLurkerAbove are making an inductive argument based on Willis’s prior plot points. Still, it’s not technically a contradiction unless you make the assumption that the present and the future should be substantially similar.
That being said, I’m about to make a similar assumption to show a contradiction, so this is extremely hypocritical.
A hypocritical argument isn’t necessarily an invalid one. Hypocrisy only lowers the credibility of the person behind the argument, not the argument itself. I think. It’s 5am and my brain is no longer fully functional for philosophical debates about shit and its inevitability.
You can have the best of both worlds. Imagine something great happened to you and then right after something else HORRIBLE happened. The moment where something undeniably good happens is the worst possible moment.
“We went through this whole storyline waiting for the drama to drop on every single page and it never did? Damn you, Willis!”
You know eventually he’s gonna pull that one.
The other shoe will drop. Its name is Carol.
I was kind of thinking that Hank’s initial stunned reaction might be to the haircut. I’m glad I was right, but have no real faith in things staying this good for long.
I think Hank is probably more concerned about how to react to a kidnapping and hate-crime victim than either the haircut or the fact she’s a lesbian. They’re there but they exist on a normal sane spectrum of importance (well, a bigoted one for the lesbian bit but not a murder-pants one).
…okay Hank, I’m not quite ready to trust you yet, but you made me wibble-smile. Now don’t mess it up. You do right by our girl.
Yes! Optimism wins!
For now.
While he’s being kind here, I still anticipate that there will be a conversation at some point where Joyce’s parents say, “You know, this wouldn’t have happened if you had just been straight. Maybe give that a try!”
I really wanna be optimistic about all this, but man.
Knowing the sort of values Joyce was raised with in regards to homosexuality, and how Joyce’s mom reacted immediately after the Rossident…
I’m worried.
Well yeah, but we can still hope.
And if that happens we get to watch Joyce and/or Becky be indignant, which is always fun.
Oh, inevitably. That’s why I’m not willing to give Hank a gold you-were-a-decent-human-being star yet.
I want to note that many dads are uncomfortable talking about ladybits to their daughters. What little sex education Joyce and Becky had came from their moms. And fundie moms aren’t really…flexible in explaining anything other that tab B goes into slot A.
“Cos penis solves everything don’t cha know?”
“Cos post-matrimonial penis solves everything don’t cha know?”
Fixed that for you.
Oh that’s a given, but for now, for this single solitary moment, he did the right thing. And that sadly, too sadly, was probably hard for him, but I’m glad he’s making the effort even if I trust him not at all to sustain that for the weekend.
Honestly, I don’t really trust him to sustain it for the rest of the day. Or the car ride for that matter.
Yeah, this gets him a provisional pass on the bare minimum needed to be a decent human being. The “Always, of course” helps a lot.
We’ll see how it goes. He may only be the politer, friendlier form of toxic.
Have you tried… NOT being a mutant?
I did, but then sentinels came and shot up my school, and I got blamed for it..
That’s roughly a million times better than it COULD be going, though, and Joyce will stand up angrily against that kind of comment rather than deflating into a horrible depressed place immediately. so. that’s somethin’.
I get the feeling that Joyce’s parents are going to pull out the story of Job. Cuz, yeah. When Fundies are making your life miserable with harassment and abuse for doing stuff they don’t approve of, other Fundies love to pretend it’s all in God’s plan to make you straighten up and fly right. It’s not bigotry and abuse, it’s God’s love!
(No, really, I actually had some fundies pull the ‘lecture about Job’ thing on me after a particularly bad bullying incident once. It happens. )
Bleh, I’m sorry that happened to you.
Job is actually one of my favourite biblical-type texts once you put it in historical context.
See, the Romans destroyed the Temple, which was like the world ending. The current leaders were like “oh no, we must’ve screwed up bigtime to cause God to allow that to happen!” and they made many, many rules so that they’d never even get close to screwing up the commandments ever again.
A generation later, the book of Job was written by their kids, about, sometimes bad things happen to good people, and it wasn’t actually anyone’s fault, DAD.
Anyway, religion-geekery-tangent aside, that’s super uncool to browbeat you into accepting bullying as God’s love, what the heck.
Follow up on religion geekery – Job was written long before the Romans.
Babylonian Exile and the destruction of the First Temple might be what you were thinking?
Oops, you’re right! First exile, not second.
Didn’t Becky have like… 18+ years to try being straight?
On the one hand this is good and I’m glad but on the other theres no drama so I’m conflicted about this
Mind you I guess the drama will be along shortly
If anything the Browns not being a united front gives us more fertile ground for drama.
At the very least Becky will be able to visit her house, and get her hands on important things like documents, clothing, and any money she might have hidden away. Assuming of course the house hasn’t been seized or had the locks changed by her relatives, and said relatives are hostile to Becky being out.
She has a legal right to, at the very least, her birth certificate and social security card, along with any of her personal property that is in the house (though the rest of it is possibly subject to obstructive relatives claiming it doesn’t really belong to her and would have to be resolved through a lawsuit, identity documents aren’t) – she could probably get police presence to back her up in that worst-case scenario.
She might still have that pile of cops around in case things get hairy
It’s not a given that the La Porte cops will be sympathetic to Becky’s plight. It’s a small town of approx 22,000, the dynamics will be different to Indianapolis.
So there is potential for drama.
I think there’s a Christian prayer, something about asking for the serenity to accept what cannot be changed. I think it’s possible that Joyce’s dad is trying to practice exactly that here.
Although, I am still somewhat worried about the business during family weekend where they ‘exorcised’ Joyce, or whatever it was. Don’t remember exactly and I don’t want to spend the next half-hour looking.
You mean this one?
“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off.”
That last line really caught me off guard.
Fucking scary.
I tend to ignore the first one, but I’m pretty good with the second. And I don’t give a crap about the whole wisdom to know the difference part
Close enough.
The Serenity Prayer, probably best known due to its use by AA.
The earliest known version, probably composed by Reinhold Niebuhr (who has the most German name ever):
O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed,
The courage to change what can be changed,
and the wisdom to know the one from the other
That last one is the sticky bit, in this case.
Huh? Exorcising is srs business, they didn’t do that. Do you mean when they held hands and prayed for her to have the strength to make the right choice about befriending Dorothy?
The Brown Family Prayer. With Monkey Master. Here is the episode in question. It took two minutes to find (using the tags) and then five minutes to find the right message to reply to. The internet giveth, the internet taketh away.
You can’t love everything about your neighbors (including haircuts) but you can still love ’em.
I don’t trust him. He’s gonna try to ship er off to a “pray away” camp or some such nonsense. Mike needs to put an end to this
Parents can legally do that to their minor kids. Doing that to Becky would be a criminal act.
Parents can legally do that to their minor kids, for now. Hopefully that will change sooner rather than later.
There are a few US states where you can’t do it. In Canada, it’s outlawed in Ontario, and Manitoba refuses to fund it, but it’s not criminal to subject a minor to it here (though it should be).
Four states have made it illegal (California, Illinoiis, Oregon, and New Jersey) and DC. There isn’t much of a fast track for it being banned nationwide in the US and not much legal activism happening on most state levels. It’ll remain legal for a very long time in most of the US, sadly.
Becky’s “dad” tried that with a rifle. Didn’t work.
Even if Hank was awful enough to consider that method, he’d probably be hesitant after that.
Nah he’s a pretty chill dude.
I’m glad this happened.
This isn’t what happened to me. Before anyone second-guesses my lived experiences, because that seems to be a thing.
I’m willing to chalk it up to be kicked out in 1992 versus whatever 21st century date the dumbiverse exists in.
Becky that’s a real awkward thing to ask.
Not awkward to ask it of someone you’ve known most of your life, when you know you don’t have anything else you can really go home to.
How so?
Some things are worth the awkwardness.
Her mom is dead and dad is in jail and her family has been freinds with Joyce’s for years. I doubt very much they wouldn’t take her with them
The Browns are the closest thing she’s got to a family now so it’d be real nice if they didn’t immediately try to destroy her emotionally but I’m not holding out much hope.
She didn’t tell Joyce about this at all. It’s just a little rude? Also now she’s walking into a bad situation
I think it was rude of her to jump in and ask if she could come instead of letting Joyce do it for her, but didn’t she and Joyce already talk about her coming along for Thanksgiving?
Personally, while that’s a little rude, I’m more bothered by her willingness to ditch Dina–her girlfriend who tried to protect her from her gun-wielding father–and go on a road trip with her lifelong crush.
Thanksgiving is almost 2 months away. This is an ’emergency take Joyce home so we can talk about the situation “caused by Becky”‘, not a holiday.
She literally needs to go home to collect her documents Jesus Christ
there is exactly NOTHING about this situation that has to do with Dina in any way at all, why do people keep bringing her up
You seem to have skipped this comic!
Becky doesn’t have much choice, she’s supposed to be just hanging out with Joyce so if she stays while Joyce is on a trip people will notice. Unless Sarah is staying?
Sarah’s staying, though I don’t see why that matters.
More relevantly, since she’s dating Dina now, she’s still got a perfect excuse to be hanging around, if she needed one.
Not that she does, since “Road Trip!”
I think Hank is going to be understanding but with his share of prejudices though this ordeal and on the more delightful side.
thank god hank
Can Dina come, too?
Yea, I’m worried about Dina… Did Becky just run up and ask to go without telling Dina first? Because she, Walky, and Dorothy seemed so confused and looking all over… And especially after Sarah and Dina’s conversation that could be really hurtful to her, going off with Joyce for a weekend without saying goodbye..
Hopefully her walking back the way she came is to say bye to Dina and tell her to keep in contact via Joyce’s phone.
Yeah, but even that’d be an insensitive thing to do, it feels like. I guess they’ve been going out for a while now, but ugh. My heart goes out for Dina.
Not really…?
I mean, it’s a weekend to support a friend in crisis. Becky’s made the offer to help Joyce in front of Dina, so Dina is informed that this was probably happening this weekend and had ample time when with Becky to bring up any concerns she had with that.
I mean, having moments of separation are good for healthy boundaries and not becoming co-dependent with each other, especially as it seems they’ve been with each other a lot this last week.
I dunno, I would take that to be more sweet than insensitive, especially since Becky doesn’t know how much Dina is upset and jealous over Joyce.
For real.
Becky’s still not over Joyce and it’s causing Dina some sadness as she thinks she only matters to Becky as “Girl who will kiss me who isn’t Joyce”, but that doesn’t mean Becky has to violently separate herself from her oldest friend. Becky’s allowed to pine for Joyce and still have a valid, fulfilling relationship with Dina.
No she doesn’t have to “violently separate herself” from Joyce, but Joyce isn’t just her oldest friend, Becky has been in love with her for years. And its only decent to say a proper goodbye to your gf, and not just run off with no notice..
I’m going to go ahead and say that Becky might not be running off with Joyce without a word to Dina. She didn’t suddenly tap into the Speed Force and zoom to the car; she just walked off panel. She’s probably going to go say bye to Dina right now.
Besides, Dina already knows Becky’s going with.
In the comic where Becky brings up going, Dina was there, so she seems to know Becky intends to go. We didn’t see the past few days in the comic so maybe they also discussed it. As nice as it’d be for Dina to go with, that WOULD be imposing, a lot more than Becky going with. Joyce’s family doesn’t personally know Dina after all. Hopefully they have a heartfelt good bye and Dina won’t spend the weekend worried about her girlfriend and her girlfriend’s crush being alone for several days.
Yup. The Becky + Joyce + Joyce’s family sphere is a close one, and it doesn’t include Dina or anyone else from college. It would sort of make sense for Dina to possibly want more time away from that sphere to herself, but once it’s set that Becky’s spending some time on that sphere (which is kind of a necessity for many reasons here), Dina’s got no leg to stand on to want to impose until much, much later in their relationship.
If you are jealous of your crush’s family and childhood neighbours for being visited by them once, it’s not them that’s the problem in this relationship.
at first I wondered what was making that distant clanking sound in the background, then i realized that was just really nicely print graffiti on the wall.
Hey, pleasant surprise. I’m personally wondering if the fact that Hank has known Becky for so long she’s practically family is part of why he’s acting more tolerant than expected.
As expected by WHOM? There’ve been lots of people who pointed their lifelong relationship out last thread, and quite a few people who did expect this outcome within some degree of precision…
Joyce underestimated her father.
“I can’t be not the only person not fully believing in the hateful homophobic values of this community around here, given how eagerly they all bestowed them on me, can I?”
“Well, apparently I can. Huh”
Let’s not forget Dina…assuming that Becky hasn’t.
I’m so worried for Dina.. I hope Becky at least said goodbye to her
Maybe it’s just me, but I think it might have been nicer. kinder if Becky mentioned to Dina ahead of time what she was going to do before she did it. Instead of just acting impulsively.
Dina might forgive her this once, but if Becky keeps doing things like this..well, Sarah might have been more right than even she expected.
Dina might not be the most socially aware, but I’m pretty sure she must remember that Becky doesn’t have – and needs – her goddamn DOCUMENTS. This isn’t just a ‘come along with your old crush on a weekend’ visit, this isn’t just a ‘support your friend in a tense situation’ visit, this isn’t even just a ‘check/renew ties with the closest people you have to remaining family’ visit. This is literally ‘get a ride home to pick up your fucking documents’ visit.
I’m not sure what the timescale of decisions / degree of Dina’s awareness of them has been (Becky has discussed with Joyce that she’d come along before, and Dina was present, but it didn’t end conclusively), but Becky doesn’t seem like the sort of person who’d hurt her needlessly, so why is everyone assuming she has? There isn’t any evidence for that, and their relationship is pretty healthy…
The haircut isn’t the issue. But she may be medically concerned by the fact that her eyes seem to appear through it.
That’s no problem, it’s just magic.
SHE’S A WITCH!
Funny how the hair cut is the thing he finds most surprising/shocking… He’s toetally not toe dad, more totally mostly normal parent.
Although other than the haircut, Becky hasn’t really done anything shocking in his presence yet.
False. She’s being gay in his presence. And not polite enough to stop in respect of his beliefs. :p
(Sarcasm, readers.)
I know, but he still probably knows she’s gay, and about the incident with her dad, and all that. But even though his beliefs are very strong, he still thinks of her as a person with her own freewill, instead of devil spawn or trying to ‘fix’ her.
Hank orders a tanker truck full of smelling salts on Amazon same-day delivery.
Yay! Go reasonable people, GO! (Say it’s a dull thing, if you want, but I’m Team Reasonable People on this one. Anyway, if Jeph Jacques can make relatively pleasant family visits funny and have a plot, surely The Boss can, right?
)
While we’re doing beginning-of-thread requests, and having had trouble with this before, if we could please refrain from ascribing bigoted intent to people just for disliking certain parts of the comic, I think it would make it easier going for everyone. Opinions about individual comic characters, events, etc don’t necessarily reflect opinions about larger societal issues. In the moment, it sometimes feels like it does, but unless someone actually says something objectionable, it is sometimes a bit conclusion-jumpy to proceed as if they had.
Not here to tell anyone what to do, I’m just a poster on the Comments thread, nobody with any authority (just like anyone not named Wills) but just a suggestion.
*”Willis”. That was so embarassing. :/
I agree with Briny. We’re sitting with our feet up, talking about the latest DoA. Many of us are learning something. All of us are enjoying the work of the storyteller.
Thank you for pointing this out. I’m a little tired of the “if you criticize this character’s actions, you’re criticizing their orientation/gender” vibe I’ve seen in several comments over the last week.
I concur.
That haircut. Can somebody please enlighten us old folks? Why is the hair such a big deal? We see lots of more radical cuts (to say nothing of colors) these days.
I’m gonna guess it’s because haircuts like Becky’s are not exactly common in small towns.
Or on straight women.
(yes I know straight women can and do wear this hairstyle, too, it’s just that’s not what Becky is going for.)
Also, as a queer woman with a very similar haircut: eh, not many straight women have this haircut.
For their subculture of conservative Christians a haircut like Becky’s is possibly pretty radical. We don’t know specific details about their church, but there may be a certain range of haircuts that are considered acceptable and the rest aren’t.
Definitely. Short hair on women tends to be pretty forbidden in that community or only allowed if you’re showing “proper femininity” in other ways (ideally by being a SAHM with at least one kid in tow).
I’ve sometimes wondered about Becky’s original haircut. Depending on the group it might have been a bit close to being too short.
And speaking of hangups about hair length…
http://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/education/article56972448.html
Ick. We know people who live in Clovis and will speak sharply to them.
We know Toedad had some hangups about her hair and we can presume the religion played a large role in that, even if he took it farther than others do.Your hair is your womanhood and you must reclaim it.
Thinking back, that really does put a different spin on the whole “waste your only $20 on a haircut” bit.
Good point. In Becky’s town, that moment of self-care could also be viewed as claiming her own dang womanhood. I like it.
+Aside from the points already made about the shortness, lesbianness, and possible percieved inappropriateness of the hair, it’s also a HUGE change from the last time Hank or Joyce’s mother saw Becky. Remember how Joyce reacted to it? Joyce is a fairly laid back, open minded, accepting person. Joyce’s mom kinda isn’t.
I can’t tell whether Hank’s hair is platinum blond or has gone white.
Gonna say white, dude’s old enough to have a married son.
Ah, gotta love that Midwestern fundie “This makes me extremely uncomfortable but doesn’t directly contradict my views so I’m just going to ignore it and let it fester”
Hank steps up… will mom Brown do the same? (I forget her name… Carol?)
Oui.
Yeah, there’s no way Carol’s going to react well…the real question is how Hank will react when she inevitably goes off.
Will he stand with his wife, as she goes fire and brimstone? Will he stand with Joyce when she breaks out her mad Bible interpretation skillz to demonstrate why the ‘anti-gay’ passages don’t really mean what they seem to? Will he grab John and Jocelyn (and Jordan if he’s there) and retreat to a safe distance? (Option 2 is best…Option 3 is honestly what I would do in his shoes. I’m…not brave.)
I’m bitterly and pessimistically predicting an awkward mixture of #1 and #3, with awkward patching up of burns and stab wounds after with a nifty dose of ‘well you were so in her face’ victim blaming to go with it.
(The particularly insidious sort where you can’t even bring yourself to be mad about it because you really did need that cold water and gauze after all so the overall encounter isn’t really negative)
No it’s not personal experience what are you talking about >_>
Panel 1: Oh man, that “heh heh, fun times, my heart is not just about to break, nosiree” Becky smile is just… oomf. It’s so evocative of this moment with Joyce:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-5/01-when-somebody-loved-me/away
Which really makes me think at least that as much as her primary motivation in this is to support Joyce and be an immediate source of camaraderie and backup, part of her secondary hope is that Hank and Carol can replace at least partially the family she lost.
That maybe it won’t be perfect, but she just looks like she’s hoping so hard that he won’t reject her out of hand or react violently like her dad. And I can empathize so much with that because having a corner of family that was genuinely supportive was so important for me in recovering from my main family’s disownment and awfulness.
Sadly, I’m not fully convinced that Hank and Carol are going to be able to be that for her.
And side note for Joyce’s trembling hands.
She’s so not ready for this trip and for the level of anxiety it will produce for her. I’m so glad she has backup, especially loud backup who can draw some of the attention off of her.
Panel 2: I know Hank will be revealing some awfulness later this weekend, but that hug is so important right there and probably not easy for him given the toxicity he drowns in every Sunday. And it reveals the importance of Becky being here this weekend. Because it’s a stark reminder to all parties that any discussion about “this gay stuff” and the shooting and Joyce’s defiance are in relation to a real person, one they know personally.
Panel 3: Ha! It turns out Becky was the one to politely bring up the possibility of her joining along. Which is good. Takes the pressure off Joyce to be the one to bring it up and gave Hank a less douchey escape route if he was still in “eh, I’ll be nice to your face, but you’re still a sinner” mode.
Becky really seems to be the best at quick-thinking situations like that.
Panel 4: Heh, Becks, never change.
Panel 5: There’s that fundie obsession with proper gender roles and the importance of hair to them. Women must be properly feminine and so must never shorn their heads like a man else they get confused about their proper place.
Sadly, this also is probably one of the major factors keeping Jocelyne from taking much of a step towards building her ideal gender presentation. Because as a “man” in their eyes, her hair should not be long for the same reasons of “gender confusion”.
All together reaction: Man, Becky, Joyce, and Jocelyne will all be together this weekend… I’m really looking forward to those scenes. I think they’ll be a heart-warming but scary moment in a whole lotta awful.
“Panel 2: I know Hank will be revealing some awfulness later this weekend”
My top best on Drama ..
(1) Joyce parents announce divorce
(2) Joycelyn comes out
(3) childhood pet dies
(4) People are mean to Joyce at church.
In the wake of said drama, Joyce announces she is changing her major.
( Gender studies? Math? Engineering? )
Fighter pilot.
My first thought, too. I just didnt think Willis would go that direction.
But, maybe he will.
Joyce’s hands aren’t trembling; she’s waving to Becky in a “NOPE NOPE NOPE” sort of manner; that’s why her fingers are up, palms towards Becky, instead of curled around or grasping her other hand or sleeves or some such. I think she was expecting this to turn out way, way worse than it did. Transitions pretty quickly into the utter shock of wondering what just happened when her father shows he actually cares about Becky, even if he’s still got some bigotry behind the eyes.
Joyce’s hands, panel 1: NOPE NOPE NOPE
Panel 2: Wait, what?
Panel 3: This… actually worked?
Panel 4: I’m confused in a good way
Yes, this hands gesture is just exactly the reaction of many commenters yesterday: “Don’t provoke him by simply being visible!”
Joyce has personally accepted Becky’s sexuality, but she still thinks Becky should hide it in public.
I think it’s more personal and in the moment for Joyce than for the commenters? It’s not ‘Becky should hide in public’, it’s ‘oh my god there’s gonna be a scene with my dad’. Like, you know, slightly less douchey?…
It’s a ‘oh god Becky please be OK’ reaction, not a ‘oh god this is why I hate Becky’ reaction.
Yup. This is really good. Both Becky and Joyce needed this positive dad interaction.
Oh god her face in that first panel is heartbreaking.
I see Becky’s gamble now. She could have easily gone to Dina’s for the holidays but she will risk homophobic confrontations (including the one that didn’t happen just now) in order to make sure Joyce isn’t dealing with her family alone at this time. Everyone calling her out for being thoughtless or selfish should think about what her logical motivation could have been for willingly engaging with people she has reason to believe could be discriminatory at best and abusive at worst. She isn’t a fool and has tons of courage where Joyce is involved, maybe remember that.
Yup. Becky is looking out for Joyce.
I’m not sure we know what her motives are at the moment, but I can’t imagine they’re ill-intentioned. Good intentions or not, though, I don’t think she’s thought this through entirely if you’re right, because I can’t really imagine a scenario where Becky coming home with Joyce and staying in her family residence (because where else would she stay?) will minimize or reduce the drama Joyce is going to experience this break, yet alone make it easier to bear.
You can just imagine her mother hawkishly stalking the house to make sure Becky isn’t trying to “corrupt” Joyce, if she even agrees to let her stay in the first place; or Joyce and Becky coming home from a day trip to find the church congregation there to try and “pray over” them both. Plus, if Becky’s going to try and get her stuff back, I can’t imagine Joyce will let her go alone, which could easily result in awful junk.
And if I’m wrong, and Joyce’s family firmly stand up for Becky and this break turns into a drama-free (or at least faith-restoring) retreat, where Joyce gets to recover and have her hope and love restored in the world a little, you can smack me with a halibut. I won’t care at that point because nice things will be happening to people who deserve it.
You don’t see how someone who’s actually going to be on your side will help you deal with the inevitable stress?
If that were the only factor to consider, wouldn’t have said the above. The point is that what might’ve been low-level background noise before is probably going to be quite a few shouting matches now. Possibly with one or two outright galling attempts at “intervention”. So I expect, at least. I’d like to be wrong about that, but we’ll see.
Honestly, given the confrontations on Family Weekend over her being friends with an atheist, this was never going to be “low-level background noise”. Someone’s going to say something like her mom said on the phone and Joyce will explode.
As Cerberus said above, Becky being there will force them to confront that they’re not dealing with abstract rules and sins, but the little girl who’s “always, of course” been welcome in their home. It’s probably the only thing that could reach them. You can see it work on Hank right here.
Will it be enough? Dunno. There certainly will be explosions and drama.
Agree.
Maybe. I think my response has to be that it’s a roll of the dice; that it could work out tremendously, as you say, if the local response is to Becky is to remember “She’s still the person we love(d)”. If that’s the case, Becky’s presence can only help things.
On the other hand, if the reception to Becky is cold and [insert unkind descriptive adjective or noun here], her presence won’t help things. You can’t assume it’ll humanize things for them, both in the comic and in real life. If anything, her being there might only be the spark that ignites the kindling and turns what might have been uncomfortable into something much worse. If it does escalate into a shouting match, Becky’s presence might exacerbate quiet bigotry into open hatred. At the very least, I’m waiting for someone to ask “How can you not forgive your father? Don’t you know he loves you?”.
More to the point, it’s not just one dice roll, but several. Hank’s come up with some modicum of compassion (for now), but what about Joyce’s mother? Their pastor? Their church group? Becky’s family? And will their decisions stay consistent, or will they waver in the face of social pressure?
Either way, the bones have been rolled.
We’ve seen Jocelyn in preview panels in a car with her father, so this will probably a weekend to bring the family together!
Chance of Jocelyn coming out during one of those disputes rising!
Becky’s presence will help things not for her, but for Joyce. Having someone to talk to, having someone there to hold on to and not doubt ‘maybe I am the wrong one after all’ – it’s very important, and it’s very helpful. Being alone vs being together in the moment can make all the difference between breaking and enduring, whatever that might mean in Joyce’s situation (from straight up mental breakdown to ‘yes mom you are probably right i should quit college and leave Becky to her own devices that’s brought nothing but trouble so far’).
Not to mention the entire ‘yelling at the louder one, not the quiet hiding behind her one’ worst case fallout thing.
Becky can do a lot here even if the ‘remind them of her humanity’ gambit doesn’t work.
(And I mean, every person it DOES work on is one more ally on Joyce’s side…)
Except all those discussions will be better If Becky is allowed to Support Joyce.
Otherwise they will be a cudgel to her.
Badgermole is wrong when they say “for the holidays”. This is not some special time of the year, it is just a regular weekend. Joyce’s going home because her parents called her up – Joyce’s words were “I have to visit home this weekend”. She has to.
She’s not going home coincidently after the Toedad incident, but because of it. There was no chance of the MacIntyres issues being “background noise”, because those were the whole reason of Joyce going home, with or without Becky being present.
Oh my bad, I assumed Thanksgiving was also close at hand (comic time is confusing, I went by the red leaves and such, and I’m not too clear on American holidays and term timings anyway).
This is very early October. Almost 2 months before American Thanksgiving. It’s pretty close to Canadian Thanksgiving, but Indiana’s not close enough to the border for that to effect anything. >_>
Am looking forward to smacking you with a halibut. (Hey, it’s not often I get an invitation like this.)
Ok good. Hank seems like a reasonable person so far.
I have figured for a while now that we’d eventually see some friction between Joyce’s parents, and more recently I’ve figured that that is gonna be the big drama in the upcoming storyline.
Oh. Ouch. “That’s nice Becky. Glad your okay. Now, Joyce… (sigh)… sometimes a marriage just ‘runs its course’…”
That would be unexpected.
That’s. actually a really good insight. I don’t know if i’m totally convinced that’s going to be the *main* driver of the upcoming story line, but I could definitely see it being part of the story
I misread the alt text as “Prepare her farting couch” as in the couch that Becky farts in that the Browns do not sit in anymore cuz it’s filled with Becky Farts.
Or there’s just one couch designated for farting, so the Satan-like stench doesn’t pollute the rest of the furniture.
I should be marketing this, although a couch made for farting might be a hard sell to the general public.
If you add a massage option, I bet it will sell like hot cakes.
Lets see here, butt warmers, different febreeze options
I’m sorta surprised nobody has invented one yet.
I assume that’s the old couch you just fart around in, maybe out in the garage or something
Cushions filled with activated charcoal …
I’m not sure if it’s mentioned in the comments already, but I LOVE that Becky is wearing the exact same thing as the first day/strip. I know she doesn’t have much in the way of clothes, but I think it’s a neat throwback to the last time that she saw Joyce’s parents.
Ooooh, nice observation. And no doubt a conscious choice from Becky’s side. She want to show them that she is the same Becky underneath (and that’s the reason she started with a funny Joyce story as well). Much like she did with Joyce before coming out to her.
That makes Hank’s response double important.
YAY!!! Not expecting sunshine and rainbows, but still.
I am so, so fucking glad Joyce has Becky right now. This is gonna be scary, and I am so glad she has backup to be there and distract her parents.
Oh yeah, I forgot about this very possible reason for Becky’s trip home, in my first comment lower down.
Won’t Becky being there do the opposite of that, though? Ostensibly, the thing she’d need someone to play distraction on, if they wanted Joyce to just be able to unwind and relax, is to keep her parents from discussing Becky and bringing up their blatant homophobia. Becky seems like the last person to be qualified for that job…
Don’t get me wrong, she’s no doubt got good intentions, but if that’s her plan, I’m not sure she’s thought it through.
I’m not sure Becky has a plan. She doesn’t seem to be into plans, given her past performance.
Joyce is very much afraid of her parents catching on to how much she has changed. She is afraid of losing her family (and her place in College to boot), because she has changed. So she had decided on ducking and hiding to get through the weekend. Her parents are the last people she wants to discuss her religious doubts with, her mother at least is not a person who allows more than one solution there.
With Becky along, hiding will not work. It’s impossible to avoid all the tricky subjects when they she sits next to you talking her head off about science and evolution.
I don’t think even Becky is clear on why she wants to come. I suspect a mixture of hoping that not all adults fail (though Joyce’s mother probably will), needing a connection to what used to be home, needing a reality check on what home actually was, wanting to be with Joyce – I bet the image of Joyce and Dorothy playing house brought all of her wanting back with a vengeance -, and wanting to support Joyce in this thing she obviously fears. The idea of Joyce in her currently state of mind being alone with people who will fear for her soul because she doubts her belief _is_ a scary one.
That was never going to happen. Becky and her gayness WAS going to come up. That is unavoidable and all Joyce can do is prepare for the inevitable confrontation and it’s so important that Becky be there because it gives Joyce support and it stops the discussion from being this abstract consideration of gay people as a concept because their daughter’s gay childhood friend who they’ve known pretty much all her life is standing right there.
This.
This isn’t a regular trip home. This is a GUILT trip that Joyce sees coming a mile off. Joyce needs someone who’s going to be on her side in a situation that’s going to be 100% stress.
omg a literal guilt trip do you have any idea what this pun has done to me?
+1
Never said it wasn’t going to come up. I said it wasn’t going to distract. This is the opposite of distracting, this is confronting. Maybe that confrontation will do some good, maybe it won’t. It’s just not distracting.
Becky’s intentions are good, and she might’ve helped already just by having Hank be forced to see her and make that emotional connection. Let’s see if she lucks out and everyone else is just as understanding. If that’s the case… That’d be pretty lovely, honestly.
Obviously there’s not going to be such a thing as ‘perfect luck’ for Becky here, this is a Willis comic. But also, there could never be such a thing as ‘dramaless weekend’ for Joyce, as again, this is a Willis comic.
The meta arguments negating each other, we are left with a question of whether it would have been possible, theoretically, for Joyce’s parents to be distracted by someone/something in a way that’d stop the drama train from crashing right into the disaster station.
I really, really think not. Joyce’s options were ‘face drama on her own’ (and her way of psyching up to it was blowing up at Dorothy for making her question gender roles she grew up with) or ‘get Becky to help’. I don’t see how the first option would have been better, honestly.
Becky being there provides scapegoat for Joyce’s family, and moral support and an outlet for Joyce. All of which wouldn’t be there (or at least, there as accessibly) without Becky coming along. I think it’s going to be net-good for Joyce and probably net-awful for Becky.
(though, mind you, there is the possibility this could backfire, but having an outside observer present when you visit toxic family is often helpful)
I sincerely hope she isn’t there to be a scapegoat. If nothing else, it plays into that “gay corrupter” narrative they’ve got going.
… Incidentally, that reminds me, there’s a documentary I need to watch about the Cold War.
Besides what others already have written, Becky’s presence robs Joyce’s parents of spreading lies about homosexual people without proven wrong.
In her absence they can claim that she has lost her faith in god.
In her presence they will be proven wrong by Becky attending church!
Yeah, they’ll be going to church. On the first Sunday since one of the congregation tried to rescue his daughter from the devil.
This isn’t going to go well.
I’m not liking the positive portrayal of religious fundamentalists in this strip.
It’s a positive portrayal of Hank Brown.
funniest comment this page, +1 internet (@ridureyu, to be clear)
FUDGE YOU HANK YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF…. oh, you actually did the human, decent thing here and greeted Becky like a friend and almost-daughter and not a wayward sinner to shun, shame or “correct”.
That ‘Always’ was important and very, very good. Hank just earned himself a gold star in my book.
um… sorry about that ‘Fudge’. It was uncalled for. I confused you with ToeDad there for a moment.
Good for you Mr. Brown. He handled that pretty nicely.
Now to get out the popcorn and wait for Joyce’s mother to get a look at ‘that haircut’. She is going to go ballistic.
Got a feeling that Becky may find herself thrown out of her ‘second home’.
Becky is great, but subtle she is not.
Which may will wake up Joyce to standing up for her, and standing up to her parents. They have to know sometime, get it over with. You’ll sleep better even if they won’t.
Ummm. They know. Joyce called them after the incident.
I lied. Becky is here. She is going to stay here, with me.
And, yeah, she’s into girls. Big honkin’ deal. I don’t care and neither should you.
Joyce doesn’t have to wake up, she’s already decided to stand up and fight for Becky. Even against her parents.
She just really hopes she won’t have to, but can’t actually believe it.
So I hope Becky is doing this mainly so she can get certain official things in order, and to retrieve documents and other things from her house. I would like to think she is not doing this to stay as close and involved with Joyce as possible. I know she may want to experience home and family again. But I still want her to move on from Joyce. And I’m feeling bad for Dina.
I dunno, I’m not sure why people are assuming Joyce and Becky will just drop a lifelong friendship just because one of them got a crush. Doesn’t mean they won’t still stay best friends!
I suppose Becky is more well-adjusted than I am. I guess I was speaking from personal experience. My strategy is to run away.
*phew* so glad I didn’t got Willis’d today
I am beginning to suspect that Carol isn’t going to blow up during the visit. What I suspect instead is a more subdued undermining with a telegraphed “You know what I think.” I’m not exactly sure which would be worse.
I am expecting many of the shitty sentences Cerberus has cited in this comment.
“Why couldn’t you hide your homosexuality at Anderson instead of seducing that other girl and getting caugth in the act?
And now you underline it for everybody with that silly haircut!
Couldn’t you show some basic tact and decency?”
Holy shit that went like a hundred thousand times better than I expected. :’)
It doesn’t mean for sure that Hank’s okay with Becky being gay and that he won’t make awful homophobic comments about it later, but it’s a good start.
I am not sure why so many people expect Hank to be horrible.
Not all ultra religious christians are. (though any person who is completely controlled by one idea, religious or not, tends to be)
I’ve known ultra religious people with gay children who loved and supported their kids, even though they still honestly believe that being gay is a sin. The type of christians that believe in no judging, always being kind, leading by example and leave the rest to God.
To be fair, this is just because people tend to expect the worst. Also, because Toedad is from the same church and utterly insane.
also honestly given the way the previous strip was set up im pretty sure we were supposed to interpret becky approaching him as a mistake
Well, some people remember how he reacted to Dorothy being an atheist and expected something similar?
Ayup.
Because bigots are unpredictable time-bombs. They can seem like the nicest person in the world until they suddenly go off without warning. Marginalized people don’t trust bigots and expect the worst from them because we have to for our own safety.
To steal from Into the Woods: “Nice is different than good.”
Even people that are absolutely awesome in some respects can be beyond horrible in others. While it’s a relief to see that Hank still cares about Becky, that doesn’t mean he’s incapable of harming her in ways that don’t involve violence.
Hank’s a nice enough person and a decent enough father; one who trusts his children to make decisions for themselves, even if he disagrees with them. He isn’t non-judgmental, though, as evidenced by his reaction to Joyce being friends with Dorothy, or… Well…
Y’know, it’s been a while since I read that arc, but did I completely miss that Joyce’s sibling is trans?
Yes, you did. Ethan thought Jocelyn was gay and was flirting with her only to find out she was trans (expressed through an internet persona).
So……either Becky’s presence will comfort and help them both, or Joyce will spend the whole trip playing referee for both Becky and her parents until she snaps.
I am actually giggling in relief at this right now. Hopefully this weekend doesn’t go any worse than “slightly awkward and uncomfortable”.
I think Hank is going to be more akin to Leslie’s husband who is, sadly, ignorant rather than malicious (not that Leslie had to put up with ignorance).
I hope Mr. Brown doesn’t ruin this in the future by being TERRIBLE, because this was actually sweet.
Don’t be so quick to assume Joyce’s dad is a “nice guy”. Just ’cause he’s not forcing anyone into a car at gunpoint doesn’t mean he’s not going to try to “fix” Becky and Joyce too. I’ve run into (and had to run from) too many insidious and manipulative “nice” people. Remember he’s one of the main people responsible for how Joyce thought before.
I don’t think Hank Brown is manipulative like that. My feminist studies teacher friend recently talked about how FURY ROAD had a lot of things going for it but a problem she had was that gross Immorten Joe monster-patriarchy means it’s hard to discuss the more subtle sexism and prejudices that are much more common. Hank may well be a bigot but just not think it’s bigotry on a Nazi level because those are much more common–still very very wrong.
Again, I point to Leo who is caring and kind but still condemnatory.
In Hank’s case, I don’t expect him to be willfully terrible. Generally speaking, he’s not really the type to do that. He’s more the type to express his bigotry by blaming Becky for what happened in a way similar to how Ruth blamed Carla, and to do a lot of micro-aggressions. Like, if Becky and Joyce used to sleep in the same room a lot, he might insist she sleep on the couch instead, or he might insist that Becky and Joyce have the door open if they’re in Joyce’s room together, that sort of thing. He’s the sort who will be nice while he suggests the pastor can “help” you with your “problem” and who will be as kind as possible about reminding you of the fact that you’re damned to hell and your abusive father with a toe for a head is probably going to heaven because at least he had righteousness and good intent behind his sins. And, worst of all, he will think he is genuinely doing you a favor by saying these terrible things to you, because he’s trying to save your soul.
He does strike me as a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin type, and we know what kind of fucked up shit that drove Joyce to do to Ethan. Now I’m beginning to think that we know which parent she got that from.
To be honest, I’d actually really love to see a seriously considerate weighing of deontological vs. consequentialist and interventionist vs. non-interventionist ethics through this lens. When do you believe it’s acceptable to intervene in the lives of others? What reasons are acceptable for doing so? How do you weigh intent against consequence?
That’d make a really cool documentary, all things considered. Gun control, drug laws, assisted suicide, contract law… Really, anything and everything to do with government, actually.
… I might actually have a pitch here, if I can find the right network…
Not manipulative? Remember “take it to god” on parent’s weekend?
YEP, that’s everyone first reaction but don’t worry you get used to… sooner or later.
Faith in humanity: restored ^^ *phew*
For now….
Sure. There’s no way Hank is going to be “totally OK” with Becky being gay; but at least he has enough sense not to be an asshole to a girl who’s just nearly been abducted and has effectively lost all her family. And he isn’t turning her away. Gotta give thanks for small mercies.
So far so good.
You know, it occurred to me a while back that Becky doesn’t really have any family to go to any more. And that she feels safe with Joyce and Joyce’s family. So yeah, maybe she’s going on this trip to help Joyce out…but maybe it’s also for personal reasons. To have a home to go to. Dina’s sweet, but Dina doesn’t know Becky as well as Joyce and her family do.
We all forget that Becky is very alone right now, and probably pretty scared.
WHY DOES THIS GODDAMN WEBCOMIC ALWAYS MAKE ME CRY AUGH
I know, right?
Becky is so good at putting up a facade so she tends to fool us readers as well. Up to this moment she had exactly ONE person in the world that she had known for more than a week and who wasn’t her enemy. Now she has two.
Maybe. I doubt she’s convinced. Hoping, but not trusting.
And we all know that hope is only there to be crushed.
But yeah the facade thing for Becky is so well done. It’s got to be tricky to write. A character for whom almost everything we see is a cover.
It’s also probably why many people don’t like her. They’re seeing the surface and missing the few glimpses beneath it that we get.
“We all forget”
huh, another person who managed to not get involved in yesterday’s comment squabble
Okay, *whew*. I wasn’t expecting toe-dad bad, but I was expecting bad.
That said, being a nice guy (in this particular situation) doesn’t make him a good guy. So… cautious optimism? Is there such a thing as suspicious optimism?
Yay! The best of possible up front outcomes. Now let’s wait and see how Davis makes us sad! Yay Davis?
So Becky’s ditching Dina to go with Joyce, after Sarah’s just been in Dina’s ear about how she’s “only a rebound”. Sure, this’ll go well.
Seriously? Becky needs to get home to get HER GODDAMN DOCUMENTS. This isn’t ditching Dina in favor of Joyce. I mean, this could be rude to Dina if Becky didn’t warn her she was going to do this, but I doubt it…
Hoo boy… This is a lovely thing. Why can I not see any outcome of this being remotely good?
Yeah, her Mom isn’t going to care about the haircut…
This isn’t a make or break weekend for Joyce. She already broke during the Toedad incident. This is where Joyce finds out for herself what she’s willing to stand for, and what she isn’t, even when she’s broken.
If Becky wasn’t in the picture, this weekend would have been an exercise in masks and escapism for Joyce. I don’t think Joyce is the type who’ll resent Becky for the reactions of her mother, so I’m guessing this weekend will be hard but ultimately beneficial for Joyce due to Becky’s presence.
I agree. It was already likely to be hard, because the topic of Becky would have surely come up -and when she first called home after the horrible toe incident, she threw down the gauntlet so hard the floor cracked. Becky being present will just mean she’s not alone in backing up her words.
Yeah, I dunno where people get the idea that things wouldn’t circle around the Becky is gay and staying with you at college stuff if Becky didn’t come along. Toedad’s happy fun gun times is the purpose for the visit home, Joyce angrily defended Becky in what may be the second major defiance of her parents in her life (and it’s 2 in less than a month), and Carol and Joyce had that talk that took about 9.8 seconds to drift into “well, it’s understandable that he did that because Becks is a sinner” territory.
Becky’s situation was always going to be central to the conversations around the Brown table. It’s just now, there’s a human face to that. And Joyce isn’t all alone being mobbed 2-on-1 in passive-aggressive prayer circles (remember she had the strength to push back against her parents when she at least had Dorothy by her side).
And if they’re as “properly midwestern” as they seem, then they might actually be less likely to make directly intentional awful comments than if she comes along, because being a “good host” who “overlooks indiscretions” is so heavily valued.
“Toedad’s happy fun gun times” is now the official name for that incident.
To be honest, when I was replying to another comment earlier, that thought sort of struck me like a brick; that there’s a third option between “This is awesome” and “This is awful”, where that fell god, Awkwardness, suffocates all conversation like a shroud on a flame. Not sure if it would be the best outcome or not, but it might genuinely work out.
As far as Becky’s presence goes, I think my summary would, at this point, probably be not that her presence will necessarily make things better or worse, but might make them more extreme.
If Joyce’s parents (and the community) recognize Becky as a human being, the discussion might genuinely improve everyone in a way that her being an abstract might not. I imagine Hank, at the very least, will discuss it differently, and would do so even if he’d only just seen Becky for a moment at the college.
On the other hand, if things go bad, and they dehumanize Becky, it’s gonna be really bad. Joyce – and anyone else who might agree with her – is going to end up pinned in a tribal brawl with her former community, and they most certainly would be former after that.
… Also, as an aside, I hope Joyce’s mother actually comes around on this. My memory may be fuzzy, but the ratio of angry fundamentalists in this comic does seem to have a slight gender skew, and it’d be nice to see that counterbalanced a bit. Plus, it’d be nice to have Joyce’s family actually be as loving and accepting as she is. I’d love a happy ending there, even if it’s not a perfect one…
The topic would definitely have been addressed hard either way. But Joyce would have had a stronger inclination to tell her parents what they want to hear, and would have had less of a cushion from the fallout when she likely fought back against badmouthing Becky.
I’m gonna assume that recent events did shake Hank up a bit, because he seems nicer than before…
Given the fact that Joyce’s father had been to this College before and likely study here I can believe that he isn’t against Becky in anyway in fact I think he might actually respect Becky from finding who she is like any good christian would IN MY OPINION!
Mhm.
I just also believe he’s pretty likely to not stand up for her when OTHER people gang up on her and Joyce and then just be all half-apologetic half-victim-blamey when one on one again.
Not all people actually follow through on their values when push comes to shove…
Holy shit. The calm is strong. The storm will be stronger.
I should have guessed that it was the haircut that has Hank so kerfuzzled! I guess that, in their community, hairstyles are just another way to conform.
“Becky, you are… gasp… Rad now.”
In many conservative communities (not just fundie ones), hair is very definitely a way to conform. There’s a reason my first act of teenaged rebellion was to shave my head bald on one side only and cut it short on the other (yes, I looked ridiculous. And I knew I did. That wasn’t the point. The point was that it was the most blatant eff you I could think of to the hair standards. Funny enough, after I did that the school changed its dress code to outlaw hair deemed a “distraction” – which they so happened to define as short hair on girls and long hair on boys, among other things. That a dress code isn’t written in a sexist manner doesn’t mean it’s not going to be enforced in one). The reason was that until I went that far, I wasn’t allowed to cut my hair shorter than mid-back-length (and my hair is this horrible fine-but-a-lot-of-it-and-just-curly-enough-to-tangle-horribly-if-you-look-at-it-the-wrong-way texture that refuses to hold a style. It is not the kind of hair you want long hair with if, like me, you’re someone who hates spending hours each day maintaining your hair). I mean, officially I was, but any hint of any desire to cut my hair was met with passive-aggressiving and gaslighting of the “If you’re sure…” and “You don’t want to look like a boy, so you don’t want that haircut,” and “I’m just worried people will make fun of you,” varieties.
Hair is seen in a lot of these communities as an expression of femininity – and, for these communities, conformity to your gender role is highly valued. Joyce and Becky have both mentioned as much. Becky likely got her haircut in part as a visible representation of her rejection of her parents’ values, too (seriously, to that sort of conservative culture, the haircut is in some ways a bigger act of rebellion than her being openly lesbian. It’s an obvious, visible and impossible-to-ignore symbol of her rejection of their ordained gender roles). The fact that she took great pleasure in how scandalized Joyce was by the haircut backs it up for me.
It seems weird, but genuinely speaking I think Hank, at least, will disapprove openly more about the haircut than about Becky’s gayness. Why? Because he can tell himself that even the strongest sometimes succumb to “temptation” and that, as Jesus refused to condemn someone for adultry as judgement is the domain of God and not man, so too should he refuse to condemn someone for homosexuality (this is the reasoning my grandmother uses to not reject one of the grandkids who’s gay).
But Becky’s rejection of the socialized gender roles, that’s not “temptation” – it’s outright, willful rejection of the belief system in which she was raised. That’s something that, for a love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin type, is really hard to reconcile, because love-the-sinner generally assumes that the sinner is at least trying not to sin. Becky isn’t only trying to reject the gender roles she was raised in, she’s trying to nuke them from orbit and take delight in doing so (not that I have any problem with her doing this – I have short hair myself and see above about making myself look like I lost a fight with a lawnmower to nuke the gender roles I was raised in from orbit – I also made a point of doing anything and everything I was “gently” reminded was “more of a boy thing” like science club, math, organized sports, and so on. So, really, I can’t blame Becky because Teenage Me gave her culture at least as much of a two-fingered salute as Becky has given hers, for what I think are pretty much the same reasons. More that I’m trying to explain why I think Hank has expressed more disapproval about the haircut and more worry about Carol’s reaction to the haircut than about Becky’s orientation).
I predict a lot of preaching about the dangers of pride and the importance of submission for women, and a lot of subtle and not-so-subtle language reminders that women are by and large still considered chattel by that sort of culture. And preaching about the dangers of giving in to temptation and the virtues of chastity.
All of this. Also *hugs*
Is it bad that this made me smile even though I know it will probably end badly? I want things to turn out well for Becky, I just… Don’t think it will happen with Joyce’s folks.
I would be really happy to see Joyce’s parents end up having the attitude of “We don’t like or agree with your choices, but we still accept them and you”. Towards Becky, Joyce, anyone.
Yeah, her choice of… getting held up at gunpoint by her abusive father.
I mean, yes, that would be a better response than ‘go away’, but it’s still not a good response.
Not really what zalf meant, is it?
No, pretty sure I meant the lesbian thing. And no, I’m not saying Becky being attracted to women is a choice, it is obviously not. Her choice to act on it is, since she “could” (but definitely not should) bury those feeling deep down and conform and be miserable. And frankly speaking, Carol and Hank are not going to change overnight and expecting them to is ludicrous, so I think reaching a begrudging acceptance would be a pretty big accomplishment for the weekend. And I did say in the end, I do expect plenty of tension.
And honestly, even if the whole arc is just false smiles and hallow words, just to overcorrect and prove they are not Ross, it is still a step (however small) towards fully accepting Becky. Plus it shows they care enough about her to put their feelings on hold, which would probably be very good for her mental well being.
Yeah, but I wasn’t arguing at Zalf. I was pointing out that them taking that tack would be preferable (since as zalf said they’re not going to change overnight), but still bigoted.
Both of Joyce’s parents are very conservative but Willis has previously shown that Hank is more willing to bend in favour of Joyce’s happiness than Carol is. However, they are still conservative Christians. So, Becky will be a cause of strain to them, no matter how determined Hank appears to be to prove to himself and to Joyce that he isn’t Ross McIntyre.
I wonder if it will cause some inter-parental tension? I could see a scene where Carol is sour, reproachful and condescending towards Becky; then Hank takes her into another room and, as her husband orders her to show more courtesy to their guest.
Yeah, I kind of expected this reaction with Hank. Though, I don’t think it’s *really* that great of a reaction. It *seems* nice, but you can see a hesitant pause before Hank goes in to give Becky a hug, and then there’s that subtle judgy comment at the last panel. I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of those this weekend, Becky and Joyce are not going to have a fun time.
Plus he looks more surprised than happy to see Becky here. It would be nice if it was just because he was surprised about her haircut though, instead of surprised because she wants to come along too. Hnnnrn.
This weekend is still going to be a trainwreck though, this strip hasn’t changed my mind of that! hahaa
…oh.
Becky’s looking out for Joyce. I see.
As much of a relief as it is to see a father actually behave how a father is supposed to, he still has plenty of time to put his foot in the mouth or worse. While Hank earned some points by agreeing with Joyce when they were in conflict about Dorothy, he’s still the person who alongside his wife forced that conflict. And he o
Dammit, phone! Stop posting when i try to scroll down!
Anywho, Hank only agreed with Joyce, as far as we could tell at least, because she appealed to the Bible as the superior authority. I think the best scenario we can even wish for is a; If the Bible tells me it’s wrong to love you, then I’d rather be wrong.
Joyce could appeal to “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” with respect to Becky. Hank seems like the sort who is more receptive to kind-lamb Jesus than flip-a-table-and-chase-people-with-a-horse-whip Jesus.
Hooray for Hank!
WHELP pretty much everyone (myself included) was wrong about Mr. Browns reaction
though i have a tendency towards hating religion and disliking religious people and none of the people around me are religious (its rare in my country), the only religious people i know are super nice people who support gays (one even is bi), immigrants and anyone. theyre like angels. one of them is an old man and he writes haikus and poems on facebook and posts pictures of sunsets and reposts posts about accepting gays and anti-racism stuff and whatever. the churcg here in general is also very accepting. its still a bit sexistic but its better than all other churches ive heard of. so id kinda like to see some christians who arent judgemental and anti lgbt and all that stuff
*gestures wildly in Becky’s, Sierra’s, Danny’s, and Billie’s general directions*
i thought becky was becoming an atheist, never knew much about sierra, didnt know danny and billy are christians o-o
becky is still very much a christian, its been brought up several times
you can believe in both evolution and god at the same time
Just a few strips ago (early this day, in-comic) Becky said she didn’t see any contradiction between science and faith. Joyce disagreed, but that doesn’t change where Becky’s faith is rigth now. God does answer lesbian prayers.
Billie is more like “of course I’m Christian, isn’t everyone else? What, you aren’t? Weird.”. She and Danny believe but don’t go to church every Sunday like Joyce (and Sierra) do.
Most Christians in my country are of the “believe but don’t go every Sunday – I mean, we might go on Easter or on Christmas Eve, but otherwise I like sleep more and God will understand” variety. Which was a weird adjustment (but a good one) when I moved to the city because my village was so heavily devout that a population of about 300 supported five churches, all with regular congregations above 55, and if you weren’t at church that week, people wanted to know why.
I greatly prefer the kind of Christian that doesn’t take showing devotion as a contest.
While that trajectory is very common for queer youth who face the sorts of things Becky has, she nonetheless has faith and a belief in God. And she believes said God has her back and answers lesbian prayers as exemplified by her by Dina’s second kiss and being saved from Toedad by Amazi-girl.
It is not really fair to put the kids in the same boat as the adults. They have had a lot less time to be brainwashed, and also happen to be at the “asking questions” age when these are the issues of the day to ask questions about.
Awwwwwwwwwwwww, that made my day. Not often an author does exactly what you are hoping he will.
She’s going to get a case of the vapours!
Oh, bless. Even if things go badly later, still, Becky got her hug. She needed that.
I am so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so happy to see that hug. Becky has definitely needed a hug from someone she has known since before all this besides Joyce (not that Joyce-hugs are bad, but they come with a certain baggage right now).
I like Hank.
This dad currently holds the title of best DOA dad. The bar was set pretty low though.
Oh no, we still remember the last time he showed up. Sorry but Dorothy and Sierra and Dina all have better dads.
…has Dina’s dad actually done ANYTHING expect standing around with a blank expression?
I agree though, the bar is low enough that it puts him in the toplist for daddy of the year.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/01-to-those-whod-ground-me/credited/
Last panel.
Dina DID technically speak with her mother, but you are right, that is close enough that I’ll consider her father Pretty Cool by extension.
Well, she talked with her mother but at the end she says “my parents” so I presume the mother talked with the father to reach this decision.
In a Patreon exclusive strip he proved to be as happy for Dina as his wife was.
…did not consider like two of those dads.
Sierra’s dad is best dad.
Hm, Becky showing up unexpected and imposing herself … is that her main character trait?
Among Other things
Of course, her MAIN character trait is that she is Rad.
I can’t help feeling it’s really selfish in this case. Joyce seems like she’s in this downward slump and maybe she just wants to talk to her parents in her own way…..but now Becky is barging in bc she what? Needs to reestablish her connection to Joyce after hearing that Joyce and dorothy were fake married. And just peace out on Dina without preparing her that she would be leaving for the weekend to stay with a girl to whom she recently professed her love? That seems incredibly selfish to me.
This is not a relaxing trip for Joyce. This is a confrontation with her parents about a belief she is quickly moving away from. To have Becky there as support and a reminder what she is fighting for might be very good for her.
Becky possibly also going with Joyce for the weekend is something Joyce and Dina were already aware earlier this day:
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2015/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/elsewhere/
And that was before Joyce’s Gender Studies class.
Not that this isn’t gonna hurt Dina or possibly make things worse for Joyce, but it’s not a decision Becky made just now.
Uh, I don’t know if you remember this, but Joyce and Becky talked about Becky tagging along on the road trip. So I mean, this isn’t really Becky being selfish, it’s:
Becky hoping that Mr. Brown will accept her for who she is, which doesn’t seem to much of an issue right now. Remember that whole deal with Ross? Becky needs a positive father figure right now.
Becky making herself known in the way that would be the least awkward way possible for her. How else would she tell Mr. Brown she’s tagging along?
So, in conclusion, Becky isn’t being selfish at all. Maybe a bit sudden, but it’s perfectly justified.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2016/comic/book-6/02-that-perfect-girl/hittheroad/#comment-967339
Becky is many things. Selfish is most definitely not one of them.
Of course she’s not a shellfish. She doesn’t have an exoskeleton nor does she live in the water.
Wait, did you say selfish or shellfish?
God hates Shrimp
Oh! You guys are right I totally forgot about that. Alright….statement retracted
I think you’ll find it’s her hair-style which is her main trait.
her mane trait
You’ve been lion on that one, I can tell.
Take pride in it.
“Hey, Pretty-Much Dad! Mind if I visit you along with your daughter, my long-time best friend?”
Becky is family. Joyce said so herself on the first night Becky stopped by and explained her story.
I thought her main trait was to be a ginger Walky.
Oh my god, compare Becky’s faces the first four panels, from “you are not going to reject me… right?” to “Roadtrip!!!” I think her mask might even break a little during the hug.
Oh it definitely did. We know that the loss of family is pressing hard on Becks and that she’s hiding that fact from all her friends. And that moment is definitely where that is breaking, she is so relieved and scared.
I CALLED IT
How on earth such hairstyle-sensitive people make it through the ’60s, ’70s and/or ’80s alive?
By keeping their eyes closed and their minds in their happy place.
Well, the people with non-traditional hairstyles in the 60s were “hippies” and therefore easily othered. Can’t really account for the rest though.
My older brothers still pretend the 80s didn’t happen. And make sure to hide all the pictures of their mullets. And avoid all conversations regarding hairgel. Maybe Carol’s aversion to non-parental approved hairstyles is because she secretly experimented with growing an afro in college.
As for a serious answer, live in a secluded part of town where everybody have been conditioned to never disobey their parents and don’t interact with students who don’t come from the same neighborhood.
Hey, Yotomoe! Here’s a challenge for you: young Carol with an Afro!
Well, the fundie community is fairly well insulated, especially in the homeschooled crowd.
Heck, my school actually had a judgement against them in the 70s that forbade them for not allowing someone to graduate because of their hair–facial hair, long hair, whatever. And they still had a “no unnatural hair colors” rule in the 90s-00s.
Aaaw… It’s official, Joyce gets her sweetness from her father. Now Joyce’s mother…she’s the one that worries me. Way back when Joyce defended Dorothy, just compare Hank’s face to his wife’s. Hank was accepting, whereas Mrs. Brown looked kinda pissed off… I also like how this makes the drama on the last comment section look ridiculous.
I’d like to share a little anecdote, if I may. I myself am a biromantic asexual, and in the circle of friends I have known from childhood, three of the guys were gay and two of the ladies were bi. I also have two bi cousins, and a gay uncle! Now, the mother of my two bi cousins was down here last summer for my graduation, and she was talking about how she expected me and my best friend to wind up together. My mom and I laughed, and told her that wasn’t happening, because he is gay. My aunt already knew about another friend being gay, one who happens to be my best friend’s step-brother, so to hear that two guys were gay, and from the same house…
She got a weird look on her face, and said “So two of them over there are GAY?”, as if it was weird. As if it were spreading or something. She even shook her head and laughed to herself. The next day of course, my aunt insisted to me that she was accepting of them both and even bragged about how she didn’t mind gays but it felt like overcompensation. It was weird… And to top it off, my aunt is Wiccan, so it’s not a religion thing…
My point with this anecdote is that, while Hank’s opinion on her sexuality is not yet known, he was very accepting and kind to Becky, which makes me optimistic. He certainly reacted better than my aunt.
This isn’t the first immediate ‘just found out’ reaction though, he’s known for quite a stretch of time. Who knows how much worse he could have been if this was Becky coming out of her closet, and not after the entire ‘kidnapped at gunpoint’ incident.
I’m not shocked. Despite the popular image of the stern patriarch, in fundie families, it’s often the wife who is the most … devout, and the husband is just sort of along for the ride. At least, that’s true in my experience.
We had an interesting bugaboo in my church where ours decided to sponsor the gay and straight alliance in our local college. Which didn’t so much cause an uproar in the city but confusion. Our pastor at the time was a cool guy like that, highlighting Christian traditions should ever trying to be more Christlike and improving not static.
Growing up and even in the church the rest of my family goes to now, I’ve noticed you have wonderful loving fathers more often with toxic Christian moms than you do nice women with evil fathers…
Eh, there’s a balance. Toe Dad, after all, was the psycho one while mom was presumably nice.
D’aw, go Hank!
That hug makes me so happy.
Here’s a not-so-pleasant thought: Becky is sure to swing by Toedad’s place to pick up some things (clothes, birth certificate, social security card, etc.). What if Toedad is out on bail and home? Sure, there should be absolutely no good reason that he should be allowed out on bail (continuing threat to the community and what not), but I have seen the wrong end of the legal system in Indiana in action and know that sometimes judges do whatever the hell they want. I will never forget hearing a judge say in court, “my decision might not be legal, but it is the right thing to do”. All it takes is for some jag like that to be in charge of Toedad’s case for him to be granted bail.
Surely Becky would be informed of that development. Right? Please?
If that happens she won’t be alone. She will have Joyce with her.
It seems unlikely to me from an out-story perspective. IIRC Willis said that one reason he went with the gun-chase-and-kidnapping story was to put an actual resolution to Ross, instead of having him hover over Becky as a threat indefinitely. I doubt he’d then bring him back in the next story, when there are whole new areas of conflict to explore with the Browns instead.
I don’t think they usually allow bail, or at least they don’t allow cheap bail for violent crimes like Toedad’s. Especially since he’s been demonstrated to be willing to go to extreme lengths to try and track down his victim.
The various fundie communities have a scary way of pulling big dollops of cash out of their ass when they need to though.
He’s kind of… broken atm though?
It’s only been four days. He’s probably still in the hospital under guard.
So Becky’s intentionally trying to destroy Joyce’s life? Out of jealousy over a class of make-believe? Way to go Becky
On the topic of make believe…
No, she makes sure Joyce doesn’t have to face her parents alone when she is anxious to do so.
Also, she hugs the closest thing she has to a father and a link to her old life nowadays.
You’re applying intention and jealousy where we have no indication that there is any, nor any evidence to suggest that Becky would target Joyce even if she was that spiteful. Criticize Becky if you wish, but try to do so within what’s relavent to the information Willis has provided through the comic so far, not speculation.
No.
Yes. Becks is a supervillain. And she’s going to ruin Joyce’s life out of a “if I can’t have her, no one will” mentality. I agree with these sentiments very much. These are not lies.
Why does my sarcasmo-meter(TM) keep breaking all the time?
Because you keep connecting it to the Internet!
Are you a Pokemon?
are those blinders expensive? And, aren’t they uncomfortable?
Becky isn’t being malicious, just super impulsive. If she considered the possibility of Joyce’s dad freaking out, I don’t think she would risk it.
Watch her. She considered it. Yesterday she hid until she saw he at least started out normal. That first panel today, the trademark Becky grin is nailed in place, but she’s terrified.
And Mr. Brown doesn’t completely fail at being a decent human being. Which is enough. For the moment.
If I wasn’t banned a priori from this comment section, I would express that I shed a tear over this. Thank you for humanity.
If you are banned, how can I see and reply to this comment?
PARADOX!!!
The real question is, can they see their own comment and your reply?
I have to sit down. This is some Descartes shit.
“I’m banned, therefore I am.”
Her name is pronounced “Dee-na”
While it might suck in the short term, hopefully this means that Joyce has a person to turn to if she gets overwhelmed by family.
I think I’m gonna cry from happiness. Who is this nice artist and what did he do with Willis???
Probably near the end of the Pregnancy Pheromones.
I bet this whole Hank arc is about his transformation into Dad Willis .
When hes drawing on no sleep and diaper changes, IU gets invaded by the Soggies.
And then on the way to the car a truck appears out of nowhere and runs them over. One tire is flinged off with the impact and crushes Dina.
Trucks happen.
No trucks given
This is kind of what I figured had happened. Joyce, being as distracted by her emotions and unraveling worldview as she was, forgot to mention that Becky might be coming along. Becky didn’t press the issue while her friend was hurting. Hank is not hip to the youths of today and their hairstyles. Awkwardness ensues!
I think that Jeremiah came out of the closet at some point and Joyce’s family has already come to terms with it. I think they love their kids more than anything and would be willing to reconsider the whole ‘gay thing’
Who’s Jeremiah?
Jonathan, I think.
Also, I feel that Joyce’s mom is going to say something that’s subtly bigoted at some point. From what I’ve seen, she isn’t much the type to ‘reconsider the whole gay thing’. Hank, maybe, depending. But I just can’t see it happening with Carol.
Jeremiah is Dorothy’s father, and therefore presumably (not that two people can’t have the same name, but he’s already got the tag so if Joyce has a relative by that name he’d have to be “other Jeremiah”) not actually the name of the person Random Commentator is thinking of.
If anyone in the family’s come out of the closet, I’m pretty sure Joyce hasn’t been informed. Her arc and a lot of her reactions would have been completely different.
Maybe they meant Jocelyn? She’s definitely not out of the closet, and I think her fears that prevent her from doing so might be pretty well founded.
Joshua (Joyce’s brother) told Ethan he’s the favorite kid because they know the least about him (shortly before revealing he signs his texts as Jocelyn). They definitely don’t know.
I’m wondering if Joyce actually wants Becky along on this trip… It doesn’t seem like she’s done a good job of communicating those reservations to Becky, if so. Of course, tension between Joyce and her sister-by-choice could help lead to the revelation that she has a sister-by-blood as well.
Hank’s smile in panel four makes me hopeful. I try very hard not to be hopeful around here.
Damn you, Willis.
Would you like that damn mail order or emailed? We have overnight shipping for the mail order and it costs half as much, where email will cost twice as much and will be instant.
I’m glad Joyce’s dad isn’t acting like a ToeDad. He seems pretty chill actually.
That went better than expected.
I just checked through the comments, and it doesn’t seem that anyone has mentioned this, so:
Joyce basically is David Willis in his first year of college, right? And I don’t know very much about his family history. But I do know one thing, and it’s relevant here, and I’m wondering if it’s related.
More than likely, yeah, it probably will be.
What’s the thing?
I guess Willis had to choose between supporting a gay friend or his family during an argument (it’s unlikely that Joyce’s mom will be able to control herself)
Will this go well? Will this be a disaster? Only thing we can say for sure…DRAMA!
Well. That went better than expected.
For all the people saying that Joyce’s Dad seems to be pretty reasonable but are predicting the opposite from her mom…
If her mom is going to be so bad he should be able to predict that. Bringing her along could just cause more pain and suffering for everyone involved, especially Becky as she will be the one stuck in someone else’s house. Maybe then it would have been better if he had just made up a crappy excuse.
Or.. even gone the direct and honest route.
Sorry Becky.. I really am glad to see you but if I bring you home my wife is going to eat you. Umm.. In the canabalistic way I mean… Not the other one… uh.. yah… glad you are safe. Do you need anything I can get you before we go?
This is why I’m saying I think it’s pretty likely that he’s the ‘abuse enabling’ type. Is reasonable and nice on his own, transforms into a mixture of doormat and brick wall when someone else he’s attached to is being a douchewagon.
I really want to like Hank.
I really like how he bonds with Joyce, i like his gentle camaraderie.
But When they flip over Jocelyne I will be so conflicted. I might even be tempted to make excuses for him. On the other hand he has a bunch of sons. He might like an another daughter.
I’ve been dreading this weekend ( as It could go through much of 2016? I havent checked ) . But now thats it here I think willis will surprise us.
We thinks this weekend is all about Joyce. Its not.
What if they are all having a big Family Dinner….
And Joyce is ready to get the 3rd fundie Degree for lying.
Jocelyne is about to come out.
Some Brother drama.
then Hank announces to everyones shock hes Gay.
Then JOyce’s mother says “I want a divorce”
Then Jocelyn says: “hey everybody I’m a women”
( Both parents Becky+ Joyce glare at her thinking shes making fun of each of them )
Dead silence. Then someone yells at Joshua for making Jokes.
the table laughs.
“No really”
“Not now Joshua”
……
i didnt even think of family illness.
A good thing I think we see with the Browns honestly. They genuinely love Joyce. They genuinely care about Becky. They’re wrong, and they do troubling and controlling things because of their particular brand of faith, but unlike Toedad they’re not necessarily “bad” people. Just very mistaken human beings who probably won’t be as willing to change as Joyce was. And there’ll be friction, but maybe not friction that completely severs Joyce from her family.
…At least, I’m hoping, anyway.
True… but that still can express itself in Rather troubling ways…
Oh definitely! They’re caught up in a world where what she said there is normal. But they’re not outwardly malicious or wanting to do harm like Toedad, was what I meant.
Which actually will probably make whatever happens sting all the more.
Well played, Hank. Good man.
Train wreck in 5… 4… 3… 2…
I had a friend in college who was a very sincere Christian of the tolerant variety (i.e. not like Joyce’s). His favorite t-shirt was:
“Jesus loves you.”
“And I’m trying.”
I am having a hard time understanding Becky’s motivation to be with Joyce’s parents.
Is it to support Joyce? Is it asserting Becky’s own independence and sense of new found self? I am assuming Becky was close to Joyce’s parents and that they are measurably less-awful than her own father. But Joyce’s parents are still a very specific kind of Christian, and are likely not thrilled about topics such as queerness.
I am just confused, though I am sure the story will explain her motivations in time.
Becky and Joyce are so close they are like family. Becky is basically an orphan right now, of course she would want to fall back on her other family.
She also needs to be there to recover certain records.
The Browns keep earning points with me this time around. Sure, Joyce’s mom said pretty much the wrong thing last time, but that was just bad word choice with unfortunate implications, no ill intentions.
And now watch as Willis tears it all down. Or not, he may surprise us.
I really need to bookmark that one Tumblr post that Willis made after the last time that Carol appeared. It was more than the poor choice of words that Carol chose to say. Certainly she doesn’t think her own intentions are ill, but that doesn’t make it so.
I’m glad that Hank can be civil, even if that’s a low bar to clear. I don’t have my hopes up that this weekend will go well though.
It may have been bad word choice to use the phrase “I’d die for you”, but using the phrase “bless him” when referring to toe dad is NOT just bad word choice. She was actually minimizing the actions of kidnapping by suggesting he was just doing it to protect his daughter.
If I understand correctly, “bless him” in that context tends to mean “y’all done fucked up.”
As I said back in that strip:
It can be, but the context isn’t right here. In that sense, it usually goes along with saying something insulting or gossipy about the other person. Here it comes with excuses for him.
I read it as “Kidnapping and guns and violent threats were too far of course, but he was right to try to save his daughter from sin.”
That’s what Joyce and Becky are walking into.
I understand the reference made by the alt text!
I really hope her mom doesn’t say to Becky ‘oh dear. Well, it’ll grow back’
“Becky I’m fine with you liking girls and we’ll host the wedding here but please grow your hair back.”
Cue another car chase.
What, Carol’s gonna kidnap her and take the car to a hairstylist?
That would be insane. A hairstylist can’t make hair grow in.
Consecutive strips without Hank saying something horrible: 3
*anxiously picking up the “4” sign while trying not to glance at the “0” sign*
“Hey hon, she’s got the I’m SUPER GAY haircut, okay? Don’t say anything.”
That’s actually part of why I have nearly the exact same cut. xD Though I’m sure there are plenty of straight girls with undercuts as well.
One of my favorite anime/Japanese video game reviewers has one (with the different colored hair, too). And she talks about her husband–and actually took a break when he came back from being deployed.
Yep, I have that haircut. Not gay, although not exactly straight, either.
So you’re slightly bent in a pleasingly curved shape?
I call my haircut the ‘generic queer undercut’
HANK, YES! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH NOW, HANK!
Well that was surprisingly and gratefully pleasant.
I don’t know why everyone is so surprised by Hank’s reaction. He was the calm, collected parent when it came to Joyce choosing to be friends with an atheist.
Becky practically grew up with Joyce. She’s pretty much a second daughter to Hank. Nothing we’ve seen in Hank’s character has shown that he would reject Becky for being gay.
You know, for whatever reason it’s suprising me to see Joyce and her dad talking to each other like people. I keep expecting them to, I don’t know, communicate entirely in bible passages or something.
So many comments
PLEASE tell me the Browns are more rational…
I mean, their neighbor almost got their daughter killed and their daughter’s best friend was nearly kidnapped by their now insane neighbor. Just saying, you can’t justiy what he did with ANY form of religious stuff…
THey seemed pretty rational in the main!Walkyverse, so I’m hoping they are here…