Rhea Snaketail returns from the dead, befriending a Demon who falls in love with an Angel. The afterlife ain't what it used to be!
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The legendary early-aughts webcomic that inspired a wave of webcomic creators.
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Blindsprings
Kadi Fedoruk
Tamaura, wrested into a world 300 years in the future, must find a way to save the magic fading from her country.
Namesake
Isa, Meg
There's ghosts at your heels and fairy tale worlds ahead. What do you do? Jump down the rabbit hole!
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Desperate for companionship, Frankenstein's Monster pretends to be the Opera Ghost. A grave mistake.
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After a case of mistaken identity, will awkward Daisuke find help from excitable Mamo, or will his love life be thrown completely off track?
Guilded Age
T Campbell, John Waltrip, Florence Machina
Welcome to the saga of the working-class adventurer! Enjoy the complete story with new annotations daily!
Dumbing of Age
David M Willis
Joyce has been homeschooled her entire life until now, when she's suddenly a freshman in college! Things don't go well.
Beeserker
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Countdown to Countdown
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Iris Black is a self-proclaimed inventor with the curious ability to bring his drawings to life, and yearns to find a space where he can use his powers freely.
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Just got a “comment awaiting moderation”, so maybe something is going on with the system? Also it feels like I haven’t seen your name in a bit, Jen. Have I just not see you, or is it due to the Gravatar I’m recalling incorrectly?
Guess I wasn’t clear. I thought that I hadn’t seen JenAside comment here recently, but that it may have been her Gravatar has changed, and it’s that which had thrown me off.
I’d say upload the photo, First, joyce stopped him before anything actually happened, ok, he drug her but that’s as far as he got. secondly, what’s the possibility he’d get farther with the next victim, better to let people know when you have some chance.
Getting drugged is something “actually happening”.
So is physical assault, which he did.
And sexual assault, which he also did (sexual assault also includes things like attempted rape and groping, FYI).
As someone who’s been a victim of both sexual abuse and attempted sexual assault – attempted sexual assault is still pretty damn traumatic. For me, it’s on par in terms of trauma with the sexual abuse I was victim of.
So STFU about nothing “actually happened”. What happened to Joyce actually happened – and it’s a perfectly normal reaction to be traumatized by it.
Kicking is just a subset of hitting, as is punching. Kicking is hitting with your feet; punching is hitting with your hand. So “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people” says all that’s necessary.
She might not see it that way.
In her eyes, when Amazi-girl hits someone, she’s doing good, but when Amber does, it’s a base, animal thing – raw emotion that hasn’t been packaged for repurposing as Amazi-girl.
Aim for the head for convenient head trauma, though. Also, when I bounce my bō staff off my head it makes a weird hollow sound that can be heard across the room. I wonder what that implies?
It means your mouth was open when you hit your head. Sound waves travel through your skull and reverberate in your mouth when you drop your jaw and open your lips, with the tone changing depending on how you shape your mouth. Discovered that back in Middle School.
…or we could ask Joyce and find out for sure? Like…if it were me they were discussing, I’d feel slightly insulted not to be consulted on this. I’m a survivor, not a child.
But the crux of the discussion is whether they think it best for Joyce that she even knows about the reappearance of Ryan. Asking Joyce about it directly would defeat the point.
Not at all. “If we find out more about that dude, would you rather we take action or just let it go? Would it upset you?” Gauge her comfort level then proceed from there.
As it is, they’re taking away her agency in her own story, and I’d be pretty pissed off if someone did that to me.
Yes and no. First they have to decide if talking about it with Joyce might trigger her, and if so, is that worth it? Yes, Joyce is an adult, but they’re her friends, and as such they don’t want to hurt her if they don’t have to. And as Dorothy points out, what they’ve got so far is a step above jack-all, so it’s probably better to just store it for later rather than hit her with it when she’s finally having a good day.
If Dorothy didn’t think Joyce deserved to know, it wouldn’t be a hard decision for her. Even though Joyce could handle it, there’s a good chance it would be a painful conversation for her to have.
If I were in Dorothy’s shoes, even if I’d already decided what to do, I think I would need to talk to somebody first, just because I really wouldn’t want to see my friend hurting, and much of my brain would be screaming at me not to go through with it, or at least put it off for a while. Just discussing it out loud might be enough to make me accept that the easier, more pleasant road wasn’t the right right one.
That’s a very good point. I think it’s just an inherent problem with daily comics, it wouldn’t have been such an annoyance if I could just turn the page and see her immediately go “yeah, I have to try.”
Dorothy, Dina, Danny, Mike, Carla, Marcie, Malaya. And those are just the most clear cases, there’s others that only have minor issues. We just notice the Ambers and the Ruths more, because that’s the focus of their stories.
Beg yer pardon, Viktoria. Mike may be at a balance with himself, but a HEALTHY one? Just since he settled into being an unrepentant asshole all nice and comfy, it doesn’t mean he should have. That ain’t good for him.
The obvious solution is for Amazi-Girl to rip out Ryan’s heart and eat it raw!!! Oh wait, that’s right: he doesn’t have one! So she should just rip out his balls instead.
He doesn’t really strike me as the combative type. At all.
But I could see him resorting to violence against a scumbag like Ryan who twists and perverts his favorite pasttime.
I would really dislike to see a scene where Joe is confronted to Ryan because I fear he might try to defuse the situation and “make peace” because of some bro bullcrap.
I’m not sure he wants to think about rapists, deal with rapists, or do anything to sooth the borderline sexy-rapey vibe he projects all over the place. What was closest to an aknowledgment that rape was a problem was when he told Joyce that he wasn’t gonna rape her because that’s not sexy or something like that.
I don’t know, I just can’t picture Joe clocking Ryan while shouting “Guys like you are ruining sex for everyone!” Not before a change.
Like a mini-arc where he could, dunno, learn that right after their terrible date Joyce was assaulted, and maybe not react like a moron “HA! told ya you should have gone to town with me.”
I might be biaised because Joe has exactly the profile of guys who I would never talk about rape with.
But, well, you may be right. He’s big on active consent but has occasionally shown or hinted at being pushy about sex. I don’t think he would ever stoop to rape apology, though.
I think that, if he ever finds out about what happened to Joyce, he would completely flip his attitude on her and try to cut his bullshit in order to make her more comfortable. Granted I’m mostly basing that on Walkyverse!Joe who was a pretty cool guy, whereas DoA!Joe is still just kind of a prick.
This case is clear cut enough and he knows Joyce enough he’s likely to believe her. Deliberate drugging is going to register as rape attempt to him and he’d likely be really angry about it.
Something a bit more he said/she said with alcohol rather than drugs he might be more dismissive about. Not ever saying rape is ok, but denying that it was rape at all.
As a survivor myself, I’d say my preference would be for people to run it by me before doing anything, but I also appreciate what Dorothy is worried about.
Damn, Dorothy just lost my vote. A president should be wise enough to know exposing a known rapist and protecting the rest of the campus is worth whatever emotional trauma one women might suffer.
But a president shouldn’t put the needs of her friends above the needs of her country. Or in this case, the needs of the campus.
Honestly, I think the bigger question here is in the highly questionable attainment of the evidence, and the quality thereof. While the mans actions didn’t do much to cast doubt on their suspicions, publicly accusing someone of attempted rape is a hell of a thing to do. Even if he doesn’t get arrested, or gets tried and found not guilty, the mere accusation would do a lot of damage to his life.
My memory is a little fuzzy on the details though. Perhaps if I read the relevant comics, I’d think their evidence base is stronger.
To clarify, yes, it’s obvious this guy was the attacker in the context of the comic. But in-universe, it’s not quite as clear, and Dorothy has journalistic standards to keep in mind. Not merely ‘not getting sued’, but also a belief in a standard of evidence that she believes should be adhered to, and that if journalists can’t produce evidence sufficient to demonstrate it to others, then they shouldn’t make claims. And Dorothy should be careful about violating those standards because of her personal involvement.
Not too much damage if he is a good liar and can say eye to eye “Those were ridiculous attempts by an ex-girlfriend to blackmail me then break me, I mean she didn’t even file a report”.
Not to much damage except with survivors who might avoid him at all cost.
It leaves a lot of people who will still talk to him, marry him, hire him, grant him a loan. “Lot of damage to his life” ? Midly inconvenient.
First, they haven’t decided anything yet. Taking a few minutes to discuss the best course of action a reasonable thing to do. Thinking before acting is very presidential, in my opinion.
They know for certain it’s Ryan, because Dorothy saw him at the party, after Sarah hit him with the bat. They don’t have any physical evidence though, and only Sarah witnessed the attack itself. Plus, even if Joyce filed a police report now, the fact that she didn’t do it immediately will be held against her.
All they can really hope to do at this point is warn other women about him, and make it harder for him to find new marks.
I’ve got similar qualms about the public (anonymous?) accusations without any evidence that would stand up.
OTOH, I’m pretty well persuaded that any attempt to actually go through the system would fail – possibly not if he hadn’t gotten away initially and they’d reported at once. Drugs in her system and his possession would have been hard to handwave away.
OTGH, leery as I am of this kind of extra-legal approach, it’s not nearly as bad as the “let’s just beat the shit out of him” approach that was being cheered on a couple strips back.
They also need to consider the chances of the online warning possibly helping Ryan’s potential victims avoid harm in the future or encouraging past victims to come forward. Or the possibility of it triggering them, same as Joyce.
I didn’t even notice your comment. I feel like warning future potential victims > worrying about triggering people. This is why the news puts out crime warnings about suspects/BOLOs. It’s a shitty byproduct, but there’s nothing that can be practically done about it.
Uh…Just the fact that other people could be preemptively warned that the guy is a rapist, and therefore spared what Joyce went through makes me feel like regardless of her feelings the photo should be uploaded. A courtesy warning would be nice, but seriously how many people has he victimized since his failed attempt with Joyce? If this were a real rapist ask yourself that same question. Hate to be that girl, but that’s how I feel.
I’d rather say, she says my superhero self is good at hitting people, not good at deciding things that are more subtle handlings of feelings. This is a question better asked Amber, not AG. Considering how badly Amber/AG both reacted to Sal being around, Amber sure has a valid perspective on triggers.
Social Media being what they are, if they post his image, it will show up in one context or other whenever Joyce is online. And there will be posts of people defending him and attacking his victims – we are talking about the internet, the place where sexist hatemongering is normal and seldom checked. Will that throw her fragile recovery into a tailspin is a valid question to ask.
Ok, I’m gonna say this, and it may seem insensitive.
I’m not going to discount the trauma of attempted rape or being drugged. I can understand how that’d psychologically affect someone on a deep level. However she won’t remember the physical harm and the horrifying emotional and physical pains that being physically harmed and having to deal with the psychological implications of physical vs. Hormonal. But some other girl might. And I’m sure she’d be completely non-plussed to hear that she could’ve seen a warning or been alerted had the people with the information not withheld it to protect their friend.
Seems they’re assuming that Mr. Random’s comment was a reply to something which was deleted, and got displaced, rather than being an original post.
Incidentally, said comment is a far cry from a 12. A pair of f-bombs for emphasis seems like a solid 7 to me.
They weigh those two things as equal because they know Joyce personally and she’s their friend. They are making the same mistake that many people make everyday.
“Personal isn’t the same thing as important. People just think it is.”
-Captain Carrot, Discworld.
Wow. I’m really, really disappointed in Dorothy. Maybe more so than I have ever before. Not a single bit of what she’s talking about considers other people. It’s all about her friend and show she feels. She’s more concerned about how unhappy she’d be than all the new victims.
Dorothy is the one character we know who actually weighs moral considerations. She’s Joyce’s moral guide throughout college. And she’s a pro-social justice feminist. Surely she knows that this isn’t about Joyce. Joyce has already been hurt. This is about the future victims.
It’s nice that she’s thinking about Joyce being triggered at all, but she should realize that these other women are going to face far worse, and could be able to stop it.
It’s ridiculous that she doesn’t know what the right thing to do here is. The question is just how to minimize the impact on Joyce. Not making up a bunch of excuses.
I know her point. That point is stupid. If it’s clear enough for Dorothy to identify him after seeing him a month ago, it’s clear enough for anyone else to do so.
It’s just a rationalization. She knows the right thing to do, and is trying to come up with reasons not to.
It doesn’t help that Ryan is shown to be a sociopath or at least an irredeemable person. He didn’t say he was sorry or beg Amber not to ruin his life (not that it would have made much difference granted, but don’t zero in on this) but he got mad and violent. Like any predator does when cornered.
He needs to be caged. Dorothy is too worried about making waves than she is other women.
You’re kinda acting like you think human beings are these wonderful, rational beings who — even as teenagers — when presented with a strange, scary, and emotional situation unlike any they’ve been in before, can just immediately arrive at the right decision, with absolutely no intermediate steps to get there.
We’re not. Sometimes our emotions make it hard to things that would be obvious otherwise. Sometimes we’re shortsighted because we get hung up on immediate consequences, and forget or overlook the big picture.
Struggling with her feelings to try and see the right decision her isn’t some horrible, stupid thing she’s doing because she’s a horrible, stupid person. If that were the case, she wouldn’t be having this discussion with Amber. She would have just made the easy, pain-free, short-sighted decision of not telling anyone (including Joyce) about it and hoping it would all go away and resolve itself on its own.
Obviously, this is just my interpretation of her thoughts, but I think in that third panel that “is the probability of that greater than an unclear photograph helping us” I think she’s using “Us” loosely. I know I probably would. We have to remember this isn’t a mug shot or some clear close-up photo. This is a photo from across a large room filled with people and sure Dorothy was able to identify Ryan from it, but she already had an image of what the actual person looked like in her head and she knew exactly what she was looking for. Even zoomed in and cropped with name included it may not be all that helpful to potential future victims. It might on the other hand either trigger past victims or get them to speak out, but, while the odds of past victims recognizing him from the photo are higher, the odds of “gaining” from that recognition are (I believe) significantly lower. So the consideration is like she said, is it more likely that Joyce is going to suffer greater harm than whatever society at large might gain from this or not. “If we do this, others will be protected.” Is not a guaranteed thing here.
My ONLY REAL POINT here. Is that Dorothy is not in any way less of a person or “disappointing” for at least considering the outcomes on both sides of this.
A lot of people seem really quick to dislike Dorothy for this and I don’t think there’s a good enough reason for that per this comic yet. Not yet anyway.
Okay, really, the stuff about “Is the photo good enough” is just looking for an excuse, but that said, I still think to condemn Dorothy for effectively thinking before acting is premature and mostly uncalled for.
Yes, the obvious course of action is to post the photo so long as the odds of someone recognizing him from it are even remotely reasonable, but for any action, even an obvious one like this, that has potential consequences as significant as this one does, I think taking time to think about it and talk to someone else about it is a good thing.
She recognized him from the picture because she’s seen him before. Joyce will, too.
The question is whether the picture is good enough that someone meeting Ryan for the first time would recognize him as “the rapist from that picture taken at the DeSanto rally”. If it is, they have a good case for wallpapering the campus with it. If it isn’t, then it won’t do anyone any good.
Well – “Has a giant scar across his face” will help narrow it down.
They could probably do just as well without the photo: “Girls, that friendly seeming guy with the big scar on his face chatting you up at the party is going to try to drug you and rape you.”
The photo just distinguishes him from any other scarred dudes on campus.
Quit the tone policing. It has no bearing on whether he’s right or wrong.
Dorothy is currently positing doing something that would make her a monster. It’s no better than when white people put other white people ahead of themselves.
This isn’t tone policing, what the fuck. I’m objecting to his dismissal of a fucking traumatic event in a woman’s life. It doesn’t matter how far the assault got, she was still fucking drugged and sexually assaulted.
And using Dorothy’s logic, the rapist is free to rape again. Because we’re more concerned with one person’s feelings. How many women has Ryan successfully drugged and raped? Wonder how they feel knowing he’s still out there.
He never said that. He said Joyce’s situation doesn’t warrant letting Ryan get off. I don’t like “wasn’t even successful” either but it’s not being used to defend Ryan like you’d expect it to. You can’t stop reading there.
No. It is UNACCEPTABLE to use that kind of language about a survivor, under any circumstances. I don’t care about the rest of his comment. I am focusing solely on the dismissive, misogynistic line, because hey I as a survivor am affected by it. And frankly, I’m pissed off that you and trlkly are attacking me over what is basic fucking Feminism 101 shit.
Yes you can stop there, because that encapsulates an entire idea, which is not changed if you read it in context.
There’s really no other reason to bring up the fact that the the attempt was unsuccessful that makes any sense. Even if Andrew was thinking that if Ryan had succeeded it would have been even worse, and even more traumatic, that’s not much of an improvement, because it’s still ignoring the fact that it was still very clearly traumatic for Joyce.
And all Shiro did was point it as something they didn’t think was okay. No personal attacks, no accusations of being a rape-apologist, just “don’t say shit like that”.
YOU (and trlkly), on the other hand, are being dismissive as hell and arguing points that are completely unrelated to what Shiro actually said.
I’ll say this. How traumatic it is for Joyce is something to consider. But the fact of the matter is, Someone who’s gone through the trauma of an attempt is still not quite comperable to the trauma from an actual rape. It’s just not. You don’t feel the same emotional and physical disconnect. Your body doesn’t betray you. You don’t feel the fear, pleasure, pain and horror all wrapped into one aggressive action. She merely felt the THREAT of those feelings.
I say this to say that while Joyce’s feelings need to be seen as legitimate and real, the fact that you could consider not putting EVERY POSSIBLE RESOURCE TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING TO SOMEONE ELSE is negligent and selfish. You may not want to conscern yourself with trauma but NEVER USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO NOT PREVENT SOMEONE ELSE’S. Especially if they’re at threat of experiencing something much worse. I can’t stress this enough.
It may not have been worded well, but I think it is something to keep in mind. Horror and Trauma do have levels. People would be up in a tizzy if I compared getting a beating to getting raped.
@Yotomoe: This subthread is about that line in particular. Not the whole comment. We are focusing on a single line because you it doesn’t fucking MATTER how far the attack got, she was still drugged and attacked. You NEVER use that kind of language about survivors. EVER. FULL STOP. I am repeating this over and over in hopes that maybe it will sink in.
I am ignoring the rest of your comment because it is utterly irrelevant to this discussion, with the exception of this: “People would be up in a tizzy if I compared getting a beating to getting raped.”
YES. They would. And if you can’t understand WHY they would be upset by that, you do not have a basic enough understanding of rape culture for me to keep responding. I’m already angry enough here.
No, I need to rephrase that last paragraph lightly. If you don’t understand WHY they would be upset, and why that was a fucking insensitive comparison to use for a survivor (because Joyce IS a survivor), THEN I’m done talking to you here.
Yotomoe, which one is worse is not the point. It does not fucking matter if there’s something a thousand times more traumatic than almost getting raped. It’s still god damn traumatic and it’s still a horrible thing to go through, and its really insensitive to talk about it like it shouldn’t be traumatic at all and doesn’t even warrant a moment’s hesitation from Dorothy as she considers the pain that doing the right thing her will probably cause her best friend.
The way Andrew phrased his comment sounded dismissive of the trauma that Joyce went through. It doesn’t even matter if that’s a complete misunderstanding, Shiro had every right to be upset and call Andrew out on it, especially considering how polite they were about it.
I get that this is a touchy subject, but I am just completely boggled by how unsympathetic people are being about this.
I’m SO GLAD you refused to read my comment, considering that we are in complete agreement on that last line. I literally brought up that last line because I COMPLETELY understand why. I’m sorry to hear about YOUR assaults and I’ll admit he was incredibly blunt and insensitive with his comment. You shouldn’t discount the pain, distrust and hurt of even an attempt on your life or well being. It’s not just something that can just go away like a bug bite or scrape.
I will say I’m not a fan of the term “Misogynistic”. As if this is only an opinion that someone who hates women could have. As if this isn’t a situation relateable to men at all. Something they can’t be offended by or hurt by as well. In that way that comment was a bit unintentionally dismissive.
@Yotomoe: I apologize for misreading your last paragraph. This thread is hitting a lot of soft spots for me, and that comparison is among them, so I kneejerked. That said, the vast majority of your comment was irrelevant to any of mine in a way I had already addressed with Chronos, so can you understand why?
Rape culture is part and parcel of misogyny. This is one of those ways misogyny hurts men too, including male survivors. And frankly, it is not good allyship to come into a thread like this and start in on your feelings about an established feminist term.
1) Acting like almost getting raped shouldn’t be scary or traumatic is a shitty thing to do, and Shiro is completely justified to complain about it.
2) I don’t have a strong emotional attachment to all other white people. But I do have one to my friends and family. Because it is completely different.
Even then, just considering not plastering Ryan’s small, blurry picture everywhere doesn’t make her a monster. What matters is the actual conclusion she arrives at, and the actions they take.
People react emotionally first, then rationally, and right now, the two are struggling, because she’s a human being, and the right thing isn’t always fun and easy.
Worrying about causing your best friend a lot of pain is actually pretty easy for most people. If they had a plan that knew they could do something that would take him off the streets, or even one that had a good chance of making it harder for him to prey on anyone else, then I’m sure it would be a non-decision.
But they don’t have such a plan right now. They have a first name and one small, unclear picture. That’s definitely not putting him in jail, and depending on how bad the picture is, it might not even be good enough to serve as an adequate warning for other women on campus.
Dorothy certainly doesn’t seem confident that the picture is good enough to do much good, so talking this over with Amber before taking action doesn’t seem crazy to me. Especially since Dorothy may not realize that Ryan has a large, distinctive scar on his face now.
“Lets let a violent and dangerous rapist continue to rape women because Joyce, who managed to do more to her rapist than most women dream of (hit him with a glass then witness him bludgeoned with a bat) might have her feelings hurt.”
Dorothy is becoming worse and worse as time goes on. Carla really nailed her cold when she called her a politician.
She hasn’t decided anything yet. She’s considering the possible consequences of her actions before making a decision.
Even once she decides to do something — which I’m confident that she will — she’ll still needs to figure out what to do. Discussing those things with someone shows that she doesn’t think of herself as some kind of absolute moral authority who automatically knows what the right thing to do is.
If she ends up deciding they should tell no one just to spare Joyce the stress, I will be right there with you, but I don’t see how her lack of certainty right now already makes her a monster.
re: alt text, wouldn’t kicking count as hitting too? As I see it, “hit” just implies a strike connecting, so it could be a punch, kick, headbutt, et cetera.
How hard is it to just go to Robin and say “We’ve discovered that a roofie-rapist was working for your rally last night. That’s what the fight was about. Please help us track him down. You know, if we don’t get his full name and details soon, it might look like you’re shielding a rapist.” Then let her talk to her interns until she finds out who knows Ryan.
Or if Robin won’t help, just go to her next rally and talk to the Head Intern. “Hey, you know that guy with the scar on his face who was helping at the last rally on campus? Yeah, he got that in an attempted roofie-rape. Will you help us find out who he is?”
In today’s political climate, I think even a conservative candidate wouldn’t actively cover up for a rapist. (Sadly, that hasn’t been true for very long, but I think it’s true today.) And given how distinctive he is, _and_ they know his first name, he really can’t hide for long.
Most politicians on either side would likely quietly fire the intern in question then never speak of it again. Sadly, they’d be more worried about liability/the press/their opponent asking how they could ‘harbor a rapist’ than helping anyone.
I doubt Robin is much different. They’d be better off going to her sister and asking her to poke around Robin’s records.
Sadly, mentioning roofies and rapists is actually more likely to make people cooperate LESS, they go immediately into the “ARE YOU SURE??? THIS GUY?? ARE. YOU. SURE.” and that goes 10x if they knew the guy and “he seemed ok” because people hate being contradicted on their impressions of people. (note that Ryan’s bros were also interns, so he already has friends within Robin’s staff)
Honestly maybe it would be better to lie about which crime he’s being accused of if they really want to get his information from his employers
Awww. The two of them are truly adorable.
Dorothy wants the story….but not to hurt Joyce.
Amber’s AG wants the catch…but Amber now has second thoughts to think.
I don’t want to see Joyce hurt either. Sometimes some of the things she has done have pissed me off as bad or worse than stuff others do.
But, she does have a remarkable ability to set back and look at what she’s done, when she gets new information to process (ie her religion), and to take responsibility for it. She tries to grow and be better than she was. That’s a rare trait.
Remarkable story telling Willis. They don’t want to hurt her, don’t know what to do. At the same time, neither wants Ryan getting off scott free.
Neither do I.
Comment section seemed to be getting a bit intense, with “Needs of Many vs Few.” I’d post a link to something cute, but it may not show right away. So please, take a break if needed.
Or I don’t know, either way you should just get his face out there I mean yeah Joyce will get triggered again by the thing but the more out sit on this thing the more he’s probably out there drugging and raping a nother innocent girl. You want to end this conflict sooner for your friend? Then do what needs to be done.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but *speaks for someone else*
My wife says she’d choose to endure another flashback to her assault if it stops another woman from experiencing the same thing. Moreso if it meant he was caught.
… Okay, this is not exactly related to the topic at hand (Amber), since a lot of folks are making good points about the situation – much better than I ever could, anyway – but I just realized something that kinda bothered me about the events at the DeSanto rally from last night (in comic time.)
Even though Amber is a computer nerd… she doesn’t know that tools to recover deleted files are a thing? So she could’ve recovered the photo if she just took out the memory card and ran a scan on it. Unless it got saved to the phone’s internal memory, I don’t know if you can run those programs on ’em.
I don’t know. I’ve had enough bad experiences with deleted files to keep a couple of of those tools handy.
What makes you think she hasn’t already tried off-panel before going to bed (just as she presumably off-panel informed Dorothy of Ryan’s name and that he got away, since Dorothy knows these things)? There are dozens of reasons a file recovery tool can fail to recover a particular file. …Well, really mostly just one reason (too much of the file being overwritten) that can happen in dozens of different ways, but you take my meaning.
As for why it happened off-panel, a strip showing Amber/Amazi-Girl taking a memory card out of her phone, sitting down at her computer, and then probably uttering a profanity really does not add much to the overall flow of the comic.
Ryan did not have much time to meddle with AG’s phone – all of the reasons you gave for an undelete tool to fail are higly unlikely in this scenario.
If Willis really requires Ryans’ delete-action as a crucial point of the story, it’s only the sign of weak story-telling – especially after establishing that Amber is such an IT-genius.
(Also it gives no explanation why AG’s upload attempt failed – another unresolved point of the story).
We can still hope that Amber reveals that the high-quality photo has been recovered/uploaded in tomorrows comic – otherwise it would be a case of “Reed Richards is useless”.
Why would the upload attempt have to have failed? When you send photos to, say, a social media site, you first upload the image and then choose to post or send it before it goes live. The image can upload fine-as-it-pleases, but Ryan can easily delete the post with the embedded image before anyone sees it. I feel sort of weird explaining this. Like, I deal with this style of user interface on Facebook and Twitter and Tumblr every day.
As for the image recovery thing, that will be dealt with a long while from now because emotional beats are more important than a series of comics about troubleshooting through all the various technical angles, but an important component of this has already been seeded in the story and I’m kinda surprised the explanation hasn’t already been speculated.
“Having Amber print out the source-code of a webpage by simply pressing a button did not add much to the flow of the comic”
First of all, yes it did. Look at the next strip; without the preceding strip, it is completely out of the blue with no setup. It’s a scene transition onto Amber and Danny that starts the thread into the next several strips. Moreover it is a character moment for Amber, a character moment for the teacher, and establishes the base of interactions between the two. And besides all of that, it’s FUNNY. Sometimes a strip can just exist for its own sake to be funny.
None of these things would apply to a hypothetical strip stuck in between Underoos and Amber(3). It would be a transition only to then transition again immediately afterwards, serving no purpose other than to answer a question that you’re only really wondering about because the 1-a-day format you’re reading in gives us all too much time to engage in fridge logic, all while pushing the entire rest of the story back a day. A slightly less bad solution would be to replace Amber(3) in some way with some tweaking to cover both before and after bed (‘I’ll leave this to run overnight’ *pass out* *wake up* ‘Dammit’), but that would leave no room for the joke which helps break up the mood which has been fairly intense for awhile now.
Wow everyone started to hate on Dorothy real quick. How dare she show concern for her friend and not immediately disregard Joyce’s trauma in favour for the rational outcome!
Dorothy is a *tèenager worried about her friend* and is concerned that this photo isnt going to help at all, which means that its understandable that she wants to talk over her next step with someone. I think a lot if the comments so far have really been far too harsh on Dorothy’s character.
I carry no Ill intent for her or anyone who thinks like her for wanted to protect a friend from suffering from anymore traumatic stress after she just started healing. But honestly I still find it dumb and kind of a bit irresponsible to be withholding information on a dangerous man, especially when you know said friend would probably make the choice of getting him exposed if it ment stopping him before he hurt anyone else. Honestly I just find the choice in this decision to be a lot easier than its being made out to be.
Yeah but that’s the thing Amber. Dorothy is now posing the question of what you should do after hitting someone. The righteous beat-down will not and cannot ever be the end of the matter.
Yes ofc it’s important to protect other people from Ryan – that doesn’t erase the importance of protecting Joyce, who is already scared enough to be incapable of navigating campus on her own. Give Dorothy a minute to try and figure this mess out before getting all disappointed in her and shit.
+ a thousand.
Don’t you remember the time when you were not-that-woke and you did mistakes and you said stupid things and it wasn’t in a damn comic you could just re-read to search for clues and do the exact better thing to do?
Well yeah, but the thing it’s not even Dorothy’s decision – it’s extremely patronizing for her to not tell Joyce because she thinks she’s too weak. It’s joyces decision to prosecute Ryan or not. One of the criticisms is that Dorothy tends to think that she knows what’s best (even here, what’s she’s thinking is HER perspective, not necessarily how Joyce would *actually* react) for the people around her, to the point that she infantilizes them – see Walky .
i love dorothy for this honestly. this Particular rapist might have hurt someone close to her and he’s reasonable to want to warn people about and bring to justice but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s tens if not hundreds of Other rapists on campus. joyce has not made a decision to make personal sacrifices in terms of emotional stability and mental health in order to bring this Particular rapist to justice. and honestly bringing him to justice isn’t Joyce’s project, it’s AG’s and Amber’s. joyce has made it VERY clear multiple times that what she wants is to try and forget it happened, which like a bunch of keyboard warriors can say whatever they want about how smart that is but honestly you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes and sometimes that means dealing with it Later on your own terms.
anyway making this piece of garbage the talk of the town would obviously be retraumatising and a huge boundary violation over something that is Not joyce’s responsibility At All. the question isn’t retraumatise joyce vs let the guy walk, it’s about whether issuing a PSA is a wise and appropriate tactical move and i’m strongly in the “no” camp because nobody has the right to publicise the details of another person’s trauma without their permission and it seems like obtaining that permission is not something that can be safely done
so that tactical move is off the table. consider: many other options
Yes, posting the image you have of Ryan would remind Joyce of things she doesn’t want to remember, but it’s important to consider that it’ll be much easier for him to attempt to drug and rape other girls in the future if you don’t post a warning about him. I don’t want to see Joyce hurt again, but I think making sure others know that Ryan’s a piece-of-shit rapist who you should avoid is the right thing to do.
I am wondering if this entire chapter is going to be about Amber phasing herself out for Amazi-Girl.
The only time we’ve seen her since she broke up with Danny was pointedly saying she doesn’t want to deal with anything and then stalking Sal for the entire day, and now we have three days in a row with Amber having really dull, short and processed responses, and by December she’s going to be back in costume presumably to track Ryan.
Also holy crap you guys, so much shitting on Dorothy going on right now.
She’s not saying Joyce’s discomfort is worth letting a rapist go free (and boiling that down to “discomfort” made me want to vomit), she’s considering the idea that, maybe, plastering her attacker’s face over social media might dig up her old wounds, and she’s momentarily unsure and looking for advice from someone she trusts.
I don’t even like Dorothy and that’s some crazy overkill.
And the thing about that is that this is important and Dorothy’s concerns are right to have.
Like seeing your rapist everywhere is often triggering and for those who’ve been poisoned on what that word means, that means cold sweats, flashbacks, shut-downs, panic attacks, and all sorts of badness and can make those spaces feel unsafe.
Seeing all her friends blast her rapists profile everywhere on their social media account might actually make those social media accounts feel unsafe to her, thus cutting off an important avenue for support.
Seeking “justice” is all well and fine, but given that rape is a crime about stealing and violating the consent and bodily autonomy of someone, it is vital that attempts to support keep in mind the survivors wishes (which is not the same as forgiving rapists internally if the survivor says they forgive them, but rather just not say tying their name in every time the rapist’s name is brought up when they’ve told you to stop).
Now, the solution as awkward as it may feel to Dorothy is to ask Joyce what she wants to do and giving her ample forewarning so she can enter the conversation with full emotional strength (a statement along the lines of “hey, something big came up and I want to discuss it with you, but it might be intense cause it’s about stuff, so let me know when you’re up to having that kind of conversation” might work well).
Seriously. It’s almost like Dorothy’s been thrown into a terribly complex situation beyond her grasp or something, and she doesn’t want to take Joyce’s stability away while also recognizing she probably has to.
I have expected “dottying” is going to become the next forced, unfunny comments meme.
I’m also really grateful yours was the first comment I saw when opening this page. Cause if I’d opened it up on a bunch of folks being all “not reporting rapists is the greatest sin” I’d be nopeing right out of here seeing as how I didn’t report my rapist and I don’t need assholes guilt-tripping me about that hard decision.
Glad to see you stopped by. Figured that the last few weeks of comics have been rough, coupled with the comments lately, must be making it hard. I had commented yesterday on how sometimes a character faults can either be offensive or endearing, and when those opposing viewed commenters meet, it can get ugly.
Yeah, I really don’t like the message that just being worried and discussing this with someone makes her a bad person. That sort of thinking will just lead to people making bad decisions about really serious situations, because they think just wanting some advice is a moral failing. Or worse, they might try to ignore the problem entirely because they aren’t able to handle it on their own but are too ashamed to seek help.
Even when there’s clearly only one good course of action and you already know what that is (neither of which is the case here), actually going through with it can still be difficult.
Welp, I’ve said something stupid. Ah, rather, I suppose I overlooked quite a bit in an attempt to make a point, which was stupid. Well, It’s not the first time. The point is, you opened my eyes to a lot of things I hadn’t fully considered.
Panels 1-5: I love Dorothy’s eyebrows in this. You really get to see her torment in trying to weigh the options here and the paucity of her connections of folks that can handle big conversations like this.
Like Walky is pretty and fun, but he’s not one you can have this level of conversation with. Hell, neither AG nor Amber are equipped either. Sarah, maybe, but she’s not good enough friends with Sarah to really open up this sort of thing.
And it just feels sad that she’s often all on her own to process complex stuff like this, because sometimes you really need someone on an equal footing to discuss intense complicated things like this.
And the question she’s asking is super important. Is blasting a blurry picture of a rapist to the limited social network of two recluses worth the way those social networks would then likely become unsafe for Joyce and potentially messily triggering her?
And there’s a right answer, though no one she has in her life would be equipped to give it (that is to talk to Joyce about it and ask her her wishes in this situation after making sure she is in a supported space where she feels open to talking about it).
And I think what’s most interesting about this moment is the thematic nature of her head-turn. For most of the panels her head is turned to the left, away from Amber. She’s talking mostly to herself, because she’s that starved for people who can handle deeper concerns like this (which is not to slag Amber or Walky, not everyone really operates on the mentally anguish over every single detail level and that’s a very good thing for humanity).
And I love it because it shows how Dorothy has a few people she supports but she’s starved of anyone outside her parents for people who can emotionally support her when she’s in need.
The downside of doing right by and for everyone, is that everyone is different, and sometimes an action is both right and wrong. The ability to see that is, empathy, I believe? Acting on it, and doing what is the best thing you can do, even if it isn’t “right”, is hard. I think it’s rarely seen, but when it is, it sticks with you. “Act with integrity…No Regrets!” and that sort of thing.
Hi all… longtime lurker here, moved to comment because because I cannot understand the snap judgements and shade being thrown Dorothy’s way. I completely understand the greater good argument, and I’m likely on that side as well – but there is some serious callousness going on to just write off one person’s reaction to a potential course of action – especially when the people making these snap reactions are probably not survivors of that type of trauma. Most of us don’t know what Joyce has gone through. Most of us don’t actually know how we would react if suddenly we were in that situation, which makes all these calls to do one thing or another purely speculative. Why not start by seeing what Joyce would prefer to do (phrased as a hypothetical)? Then do some research into what other survivors of assault would prefer? You won’t get a 100% opinion if course, but you will have a deeper and more informed view of the people most likely to be impacted by this route.
Dorothy is showing empathy, which is probably the one thing lavking more than any other in today’s political and social reality. Honestly, I don’t think it is hyperbolic to say that this is why we have the incarceration rate that we do in the US. I don’t begrudge anyone for already making their mind up about the situation, but I seriously question how many people have vome to their conclusion in as thoughtful a manner as Dorothy.
Seriously, those who would disparage Dorothy for being thorough in thinking this through remind me of all the people across the US (and elsewhere) who just want a decisive leader, dammit! I’m not exaggerating when I say that this kind of attitude is why Drumpf is doing as well as he is. Dorothy is being kind, empathic, and thorough about an issue that impacts a large number of people. She is actively trying NOT to give in to her gut emotions without thinking them through first. She is acting like a mature adult with a deep and nuanced understanfing of the implications of her potential actions. In my view, that means she is being the most presidential she could be.
“Mature adult with a deep and nuanced understanding of the implications of her potential actions.” This, we need this.
Also, it seems (to me at least) that some commenters haven’t been around much, owing to the storyline and some of the comments that accompany said storyline. Sometimes you don’t get over trauma, you just live with it.
Panel 6: Oh man, there’s so much to unpack in this little statement.
First up is the continued diminishment of Amber in favor of the narrative of the golden alter and the monster. Like, Amber was asked the direct question, but her first response is to talk about AG.
Also, this is the sort of question Amber is more equipped to handle as it involves subtlety and thinking about the survivor first rather than “stopping the bad guy”, but she doesn’t believe that Amber can solve anything. Amber, in her mind, is the broken object, to be pitied or protected against and couldn’t possibly have anything to share about the complicated nature of being a survivor and having to balance mental health needs with stopping someone who has harmed her.
And that’s tragic, because Amber has worth and as she notes here, AG’s responses aren’t really nuanced enough to handle something like this. In her mind, stopping the bad guy and “making up for her mistake” is the most and only important thing. She punches the bad guys and then she wins and everything is okay is the level she’s on, but that doesn’t work for situations like this that are super complex and frustrating in the lack of good options.
And there’s also the reminder to AG about why she supposedly took on this case (the real reason is she feels she owes Joyce after “failing” her), which is to support Joyce. And so keeping in mind Joyce’s needs and wants and that AG’s decisions to seek justice above all else could have negative consequences for Joyce if not handled delicately and with a focus on Joyce’s preferences in this matter.
But I think what’s worst is the total abrogation of a response. She doesn’t even let her Amber alter engage with the question. Hell, Amber might not even remember enough from last night to give a full response (especially if AG is no longer sharing her full memories in order to “protect” her). She’s so convinced of her utter lack of worth that she just evades the question entirely and answers in what is a self-deprecating non-sequitur.
Yep, with the way the last few strips have gone I am seriously convinced we’re in for Amber boxing herself out for her golden alter and continuing to devalue herself more and more.
Amber seems like she’s in a haze, far beyond just being groggy about waking up, and at this point I’m wondering if we really are seeing Amber start to phase out when Amazi-Girl is in the driver’s seat.
OTOH, it’s not a “I’ll let Amazi-Girl handle this” response either. It’s actually awareness of Amazi-Girl’s limitations – she’s good at hitting people, not at handling questions like this.
It’s self-deprecating, but it’s Amazi-Girl deprecating, not Amber-deprecating.
I’m not too sure. If she was criticizing Amazi-Girl then she’d say something like “that’s not her field.” The way I’m seeing it is more like “this is Amazi-Girl’s strength, and I have no opinion on the matter.”
Yeah, if she said “I’m not sure, Amazi-Girl’s just good at hitting people” then that would imply both alters are completely unequipped to deal with this and acknowledging it. But there’s no I statement there at all, and combined with the last couple strips showing her in this really disconnected state already… Seriously, I’m worried about this.
Yeah, I’m really thinking that Amber is starting to phase herself out for her golden alter, and the disconnect she’s been showing these last few strips, where she can barely muster a response to a trusted friend and looked genuinely surprised that she had bruises on her fists, makes me think she might actually start losing memory during Amazi-Girl episodes.
I’m really hoping this turns out more like that “…maybe Amber is allowed be inconsistent” moment she had a while back. Amber at least sees that this isn’t a job for Amazi-Girl for once, so I hope she’ll end up deciding that it’s a job for Amber instead, and not just something Amber will have to muddle through.
Man, for the days of when AG was just a persona, and not a character in her own right. Though in a way, Amber can’t really answer. The way she dealt with the trauma of being attacked was not good for her, let alone anyone else. Seeing her attacker has caused all sorts of issues, and it’s years removed from the occurrence. Yes, AG seems to be getting over it, getting better, in regards to Sal; but what about Amber?
Also does Ethan know about Sal triggering Amber into AG? If so, then he obviously doesn’t know about what happened last night. Does Ethan even recognize Sal? That question’s been asked before, sorry about that.
While the attacks were different, the trauma is real, and will always be fresh. Only someone who’s successfully living with that pain can make a decision.
Ethan had a reaction to meeting Sal, but then she explained that it was just because she resembled Walky, and he brushed it aside.
As for Amber/AG, the line now is that AG exists to protect Sal from Amber (presumably meaning that AG is going to deal with Sal “the right way” while Amber would just lose control and stab her again).
Will Amber defend herself against the encroaching nothingness?
Posting the blurry picture will turn up sharp pictures. This guy has been photographed somewhere. And sharp pictures will turn up other victims. An other victims will raise the possibility of prosecution. With multiple victims the law can’t be quite as complacent.
Maybe ask Joyce? True she has expressed a preference not to ever talk about Ryan but just check in. Who knows what she might say. I don’t see her as fragile. She seems to be made of pretty strong stuff. (Strong not the same as stoic) Think of her standing up to her parents for Amber, for Becky.
You should always ask someone what they want, instead of just assuming or trying to guess. Most people will be honest about it if you just sit down and have a person to person conversation.
Joyce’s trusted friend Dorothy: “Joyce, I’m sorry to even mention this, but we found your assailant. There are several things we could do now, but we wanted to talk to you first. We don’t want to make things worse for you.”
THIS x10000. You know what would be worse than asking her?
Much, much later:
“Oh yeah, we totally found your assailant, let him get away and delete the picture because we got distracted, but we have the blurry one we can still recognize him on. We decided not to tell you though, because we thought you’d be too fragile to handle it. Even though you were his victim, We handled it for you, don’t worry. ”
Or worse, Joyce gets a hold of Dorothy’s phone and sees it.
Some of the responses here seem a bit naïve. People go to great lengths to deny someone is a rapist even when presented with lots of evidence. Just putting out Ryan’s picture and claiming he’s a would be rapist, without Joyce immediately having gone to the cops, is going to play into that attitude. It probably won’t help either that Ryan has been working for the DeSanto campaign, allowing someone to claim this is just a smear attempt by her opponents, trying to imply her supporters are a bunch of rapists.
Fair point. Depends on the audience you want to reach and why. He may never be prosecuted, but it could be a hell of a lot harder for him to get invited to any parties, or stay at them once he arrives invited or not. It isn’t a total win but at least it isn’t a total loss. And there’s a better-than-even chance some real evidence of his other crimes will turn up. Assuming Joyce is onboard with it.
I’m sure plenty of people will deny. Reasonably so.
With luck, it’ll raise doubts in his next target’s mind though. That’s the main point.
Best case, they’d get responses saying “Ohmigod that’s him. He drugged me too.” (Best case, somewhat sadly, since that would be confirmation he’d done it before.)
I do think worries about the DeSanto campaign are overblown. He’s an unpaid volunteer intern. He’d get thrown under the bus in a heartbeat. They’re not even expected to do any real vetting of those. “Will you wear a shirt and hand out fliers? Great, you’re on board.”
That would be the best case scenario, yeah, and even that one will be really rough.
We know that Ryan has strong bro support who would be up in arms to protect their bro against “crazy (percussion instruments)” and he’s also got parents whose reputations would depend on harshly shutting down any accusation along those lines by any means necessary.
And those who point out assault or make accusations tend to get a lot of flack in general. Even if AG and Dorothy don’t name names regarding Joyce, if Ryan is able to figure out who they’re talking about he can throw her into the mix anyways (one thing I’ve seen with people who have others anonymously report people who raped them for them, is the rapist sniffing around making legal threats against the reporters to see if they can suss out which of their victims called them out).
And if Joyce’s name gets out, it’s likely she’ll get more flak than him, being called a (slur for sexual woman) and treated like psychotic dangerous garbage. Not to mention being treated as broken. Rape survivors I’ve known (mostly those who date men) have reported having people they go on dates with breaking things off when they tell them because “they don’t want to be accused too” or “that’s a sign of crazy”.
It’s definitely a thing worth thinking through before doing and most importantly, involving Joyce in the decision-making.
… oh shit it just occurred to me when you mentioned his parents, but we know he took advantage of the pastor’s son thing with Joyce at the party, that probably wasn’t the first time he tried that approach, but now I’m suddenly realizing just how wide a sphere of influence he could’ve had in his home town too. *shudders*
There’s a good chance of that. Even if it did start to affect Robin, Frieda almost certainly is the one responsible for hiring / screening / managing the intern in question, so she’d make reasonable scapegoat.
If Frieda’s an outlier and the rest of the her campaign staff actually keep an eye on whether their volunteers are assholes, I’m not sure it’d be fair to blame Robin for more.
It really depends on what information actually trickles up to Robin, and who it comes from. Based on how Frieda reacted to BroTrio attacking Sal and AG by trying to spin the situation rather than cutting them loose, I’d say she will be a problem. She’s obviously less concerned with ethics than she is with avoiding any hint of a scandal that could hurt the campaign, making her (Frieda) look bad because she hired assholes.
If Frieda is representative of the rest of Robin’s campaign staff, I doubt accurate reports of the event will reach her through them.
Small correction: The accused’s close friends/loved ones go to great lengths to deny that someone is a rapist. Everyone else…why would they? There’s a guy I don’t know from Adam being accused of attacking a girl. Could it be a fabrication? Yes. But it’s equally likely to be true. And in this rape-happy college climate of late, I don’t know any woman who would take the chance; he can kiss his campus drugging days goodbye at least.
With the exception of rabid TRPers and other heavily misogynist types, the likeliest scenario is everyone who doesn’t personally know Ryan is going to start keeping their distance from him. It won’t be the widespread scorn and condemnation he deserves, but it’s something.
Ryan can be charming. I have a hunch most serial rapists are. Our culture has not fully awakened to the reality that charm can be a predator’s tool. The older I get the more it just makes me wary.
I have co-workers who simply will not believe that Bill Cosby is a rapist, or that Louis CK may be a sexual harasser, or that sexual harassment is even a serious thing and gives cover to rape culture. If somebody is funny or nice, then they just can’t be…
It’s be way easier if they did have the frat but I don’t think they do. Iirc, the frat guy said he’d seen the douche bag at frat parties but didn’t know him personally
Avoiding trauma isn’t going to actually help Joyce, and it leaves an unrepentant rapist on the loose. Post the picture and name and get the campus on alert.
There are several ways to interpret Amber’s line here:
A) “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people, not dealing with multi-faceted moral dilemmas.”
B) “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people, and hitting people is the solution to our problem!”
C) It’s just a non-sequitur, e.g. “I like swords.”
Option A makes the most sense, so I’m going with option C.
And suddenly Dorothy jumps back into the lead of being my favourite character, there are times you have to act and there are times you have to stop and think, I’m glad Dorothy gets that
As Alison of http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/ would indicate, being able to punch problems out of existence is great, until you meet problems that don’t get resolved that way. I read Amber’s admission as a recognition that AG may be beyond criticism, but she really lacks some of the power that her fangirls would like her to have.
I would like that, because then that would be Amber admitting that AG is capable of mistakes (and perhaps that Amber is also capable of good), but given how deadeyed she seemed when she said it, I’m thinking she’s trying to reaffirm Amazi-Girl’s strengths in the face of a problem that she can’t solve.
Since we are adding Robin to the equation, let’s not forget Roz is a classmate and dorm mate of the other girls, she may have some, albeit little, sway with her sister as to how she reacts to a member of her volunteer group being a possible rapist.
Well personally from what I actually realize about callouts and shaming in general is that. Two things happen.
1) The person who calls out or PSA on the person either gets sued for defamation.
*Please note this rarely happens. At all.
2) The person who does get called out, gets looked at the police. And is basically a social outcast.
It can really just turn into an all out stupid internet fightoff either way, Joyce should really just do herself a favor and report it to the police. She’s at legal age of adult now to make her own decisions so she doesn’t have to have her parents looking it over for her. If Joyce ignores it, then who knows what the guy would do to other people?
Me if I ever see Tony Hawk: Hey you’re Tony Hawk the famous skateboarder. That’s right I recognise you. Won’t be able to get any content out of this will you, you piece of shit
How to read all 28 issues of my Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane run on Marvel Unlimited:
1: The first four issues were published as the miniseries "Mary Jane."
www.marvel.com/comics/serie...
today in #9chickweedlane i learned we have to be shown children learning and relearning what sex is, for Reasons, even though they already clearly know and have prepared nuanced questions about it!
also that Gran must hate, if she's still alive, how Old Juliette is the same but with gray hair
one of my favorite things is when a commenter explodes WHEN DO THESE CHARACTERS GET THERAPY but directed towards a character who canonically has a regular therapist
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btw if you're one of those rando bluesky weirdos who doesn't know me but sees me in the wild being sarcastic and don't know i'm being sarcastic because you haven't taken like 30 seconds to, like, maybe look at my user profile or something, keep walking, you're not going to score internet points here
Here's an entertaining cite at the bottom of the first page
Josh Gerstein@joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
JUST IN: Milwaukee Judge Hannah Dugan moves to dismiss federal criminal case against her for allegedly helping immigrant hide from ICE. Her lawyers say she's protected by official acts & judicial immunity and 10th Amendment. Doc: storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.us...
Where did Hollywood go so wrong? I thought movies were supposed to be an escape from reality, a chance to put your worries aside and not have to think about any underlying ideas or concepts. Well, not anymore.
theonion.com/you-can...
It's not a new argument, of course, but Chesterton dismissed it effectively in 1908.
"You will hear everlastingly... this argument that the rich man cannot be bribed. The fact is, of course, that the rich man is bribed; he has been bribed already. That is why he is a rich man."
Aaron Rupar@atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Hawley dismisses Trump lining his pockets with his memecoin: "Listen, I think nobody believes that Donald Trump can be bought. I mean, what does Donald Trump need more money for?"
preternia @preternia.com ⋅ 1d
Josh Gerstein @joshgerstein.bsky.social ⋅ 2d
Aaron Rupar @atrupar.com ⋅ 3d
Pavel
@spavel.bsky.social ⋅ 12d
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Don’t sell yourself short, Amber, you’re good at hitting people too
also, kicking
(ok, weirded me out for a minute there that comments were locked for me for ALL strips)
alsoDAMN IT ALT-TEXT
Was wondering where you’d gone.
yeah, comments before, like, today’s strip are locked for me… huh
In the absence of contradicting evidence, I blame Willis.
SO ANYWAY
Just got a “comment awaiting moderation”, so maybe something is going on with the system? Also it feels like I haven’t seen your name in a bit, Jen. Have I just not see you, or is it due to the Gravatar I’m recalling incorrectly?
Comments sections for old comics get blocked after a while.
huh, the old comment blocking thing must be recent…
also Jen is the make-out Grav
Guess I wasn’t clear. I thought that I hadn’t seen JenAside comment here recently, but that it may have been her Gravatar has changed, and it’s that which had thrown me off.
I generally don’t use it anymore except when I get a new one, since that requires changing all the pre-populated information
So Ana=Jen, or am I more confused than before?
AG can put her feet in chests, sure, but she is FAR better at putting her foot in her mouth.
I’d say upload the photo, First, joyce stopped him before anything actually happened, ok, he drug her but that’s as far as he got. secondly, what’s the possibility he’d get farther with the next victim, better to let people know when you have some chance.
Getting drugged is something “actually happening”.
So is physical assault, which he did.
And sexual assault, which he also did (sexual assault also includes things like attempted rape and groping, FYI).
As someone who’s been a victim of both sexual abuse and attempted sexual assault – attempted sexual assault is still pretty damn traumatic. For me, it’s on par in terms of trauma with the sexual abuse I was victim of.
So STFU about nothing “actually happened”. What happened to Joyce actually happened – and it’s a perfectly normal reaction to be traumatized by it.
Almost like defiance of your name? Huh.
And stabbing! HA HAAaaa. (wipes tear) It’s funny because it relates to her childhood trauma.
Kicking is just a subset of hitting, as is punching. Kicking is hitting with your feet; punching is hitting with your hand. So “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people” says all that’s necessary.
She might not see it that way.
In her eyes, when Amazi-girl hits someone, she’s doing good, but when Amber does, it’s a base, animal thing – raw emotion that hasn’t been packaged for repurposing as Amazi-girl.
Kicking Joyce in the chest maybe
Aim for the head for convenient amnesia.
(not)
Aim for the head for convenient head trauma, though. Also, when I bounce my bō staff off my head it makes a weird hollow sound that can be heard across the room. I wonder what that implies?
That you are aptly named.
Annnd, that you probably shouldn’t be hitting yourself in the head with a stave.
..er, Bo staff.
It means your mouth was open when you hit your head. Sound waves travel through your skull and reverberate in your mouth when you drop your jaw and open your lips, with the tone changing depending on how you shape your mouth. Discovered that back in Middle School.
Hopefully not while riding your bike.
But she’s also AMAZING at repressing emotions
she could give Joyce a few tips
Which would obviously lead to Joyce becoming a sidekick to Amazi-Girl.
Sure, and then you could have Dina teach Danny how to assert himself in social situations.
…actually, that’s a great idea
I vote yes to Proposition Rawr, where a Ms. Dina Saruyama teaches a Mr. Danny Wilcox how to deal with social situations.
Affirmation by extensive “Hear, hear!” and wooden mug thumping sounds.
*Throws mug at ground.* Another!
NOT HARD ENOUGH!
I support this action. Where do I sign the petition?
Fourth’d?
For him or for us? …or for her?
Yes.
Amber is being smacked in the face with AG’s limitations, lately…
If you look too hard at superheroes the premises behind them often get pretty damn wobbly.
*whimpers*but…but…punching!
Let’s see you grit those teeth! *Punches ScarMan!!!*
There. Is that better?
Amazi-Girl is also good at jumping off rooftops.
And climbing through windows.
Getting thrown off vehicles, too.
and ignoring criticism.
Hit Joyce’s phone every time she checks social media. Problem solved.
…or we could ask Joyce and find out for sure? Like…if it were me they were discussing, I’d feel slightly insulted not to be consulted on this. I’m a survivor, not a child.
Maybe I’m projecting.
But the crux of the discussion is whether they think it best for Joyce that she even knows about the reappearance of Ryan. Asking Joyce about it directly would defeat the point.
Not at all. “If we find out more about that dude, would you rather we take action or just let it go? Would it upset you?” Gauge her comfort level then proceed from there.
As it is, they’re taking away her agency in her own story, and I’d be pretty pissed off if someone did that to me.
Yes and no. First they have to decide if talking about it with Joyce might trigger her, and if so, is that worth it? Yes, Joyce is an adult, but they’re her friends, and as such they don’t want to hurt her if they don’t have to. And as Dorothy points out, what they’ve got so far is a step above jack-all, so it’s probably better to just store it for later rather than hit her with it when she’s finally having a good day.
Personally, I would rather be triggered by someone well-meaning and trying to help than left in the dark and assumed to be too fragile to handle it.
Gotta remember who Joyce is tho. she is pretty fragile and we’ve seen her break over some pretty small things
I am fairly certain I wholeheartedly disagree with your second sentence.
If Dorothy didn’t think Joyce deserved to know, it wouldn’t be a hard decision for her. Even though Joyce could handle it, there’s a good chance it would be a painful conversation for her to have.
If I were in Dorothy’s shoes, even if I’d already decided what to do, I think I would need to talk to somebody first, just because I really wouldn’t want to see my friend hurting, and much of my brain would be screaming at me not to go through with it, or at least put it off for a while. Just discussing it out loud might be enough to make me accept that the easier, more pleasant road wasn’t the right right one.
That’s a very good point. I think it’s just an inherent problem with daily comics, it wouldn’t have been such an annoyance if I could just turn the page and see her immediately go “yeah, I have to try.”
Amazi-Girl is not so good at retaining healthy emotional balance. On the other hand, who in this comic actually is?
Dorothy, Dina, Danny, Mike, Carla, Marcie, Malaya. And those are just the most clear cases, there’s others that only have minor issues. We just notice the Ambers and the Ruths more, because that’s the focus of their stories.
Beg yer pardon, Viktoria. Mike may be at a balance with himself, but a HEALTHY one? Just since he settled into being an unrepentant asshole all nice and comfy, it doesn’t mean he should have. That ain’t good for him.
Sierra, probably.
I am worried about the state of her soles.
The obvious solution is for Amazi-Girl to rip out Ryan’s heart and eat it raw!!! Oh wait, that’s right: he doesn’t have one! So she should just rip out his balls instead.
On the other hand, the void in his chest would make excellent storage space.
So they could build, like, a jail cell in there?
Everybody wins!
It seems likely he doesn’t have those either …
He definitely does have those, that’s part of the problem.
Well that just did not work
I love Dorothy.
I think I’ve seen a few SMBC strips along these lines :v
hmmm I am getting an image of Joe clocking Ryan
He doesn’t really strike me as the combative type. At all.
But I could see him resorting to violence against a scumbag like Ryan who twists and perverts his favorite pasttime.
I would really dislike to see a scene where Joe is confronted to Ryan because I fear he might try to defuse the situation and “make peace” because of some bro bullcrap.
I’m not sure he wants to think about rapists, deal with rapists, or do anything to sooth the borderline sexy-rapey vibe he projects all over the place. What was closest to an aknowledgment that rape was a problem was when he told Joyce that he wasn’t gonna rape her because that’s not sexy or something like that.
I don’t know, I just can’t picture Joe clocking Ryan while shouting “Guys like you are ruining sex for everyone!” Not before a change.
Like a mini-arc where he could, dunno, learn that right after their terrible date Joyce was assaulted, and maybe not react like a moron “HA! told ya you should have gone to town with me.”
I might be biaised because Joe has exactly the profile of guys who I would never talk about rape with.
Joe’s a bro but he’s not that big a scumbag.
But, well, you may be right. He’s big on active consent but has occasionally shown or hinted at being pushy about sex. I don’t think he would ever stoop to rape apology, though.
I think that, if he ever finds out about what happened to Joyce, he would completely flip his attitude on her and try to cut his bullshit in order to make her more comfortable. Granted I’m mostly basing that on Walkyverse!Joe who was a pretty cool guy, whereas DoA!Joe is still just kind of a prick.
This case is clear cut enough and he knows Joyce enough he’s likely to believe her. Deliberate drugging is going to register as rape attempt to him and he’d likely be really angry about it.
Something a bit more he said/she said with alcohol rather than drugs he might be more dismissive about. Not ever saying rape is ok, but denying that it was rape at all.
Didn’t Amazi-Girl promise Joyce she’d keep looking for him?
*Puts on hat, suit, and gloves*
Hitting it is then.
*Cracks knuckles*
Amazi-Girl should respond to this comment if she wants some help with choosing a
ranged weaponfusion cannon.If only she had Sarge’s ability.
That one where you put your hand into a pouch and pull out an absurdly large weapon?
Though I think you need the prerequisites: Killing Indiscriminately and Hammerspace first.
No, the other ability.
And to save on time; the other, other ability.
Ohhh, the obvious one! Yeah… my Common Sense wasn’t exactly tingling.
And apparently I was seconds late on posting that comment. Think it would have been better if I had been able to beat you to it.
I had that thought as well. You had the perfect line, and I was already going off on a tangent.
As a survivor myself, I’d say my preference would be for people to run it by me before doing anything, but I also appreciate what Dorothy is worried about.
Damn, Dorothy just lost my vote. A president should be wise enough to know exposing a known rapist and protecting the rest of the campus is worth whatever emotional trauma one women might suffer.
It’s not just “one woman.” She’s also a very close friend.
But a president shouldn’t put the needs of her friends above the needs of her country. Or in this case, the needs of the campus.
Honestly, I think the bigger question here is in the highly questionable attainment of the evidence, and the quality thereof. While the mans actions didn’t do much to cast doubt on their suspicions, publicly accusing someone of attempted rape is a hell of a thing to do. Even if he doesn’t get arrested, or gets tried and found not guilty, the mere accusation would do a lot of damage to his life.
My memory is a little fuzzy on the details though. Perhaps if I read the relevant comics, I’d think their evidence base is stronger.
To clarify, yes, it’s obvious this guy was the attacker in the context of the comic. But in-universe, it’s not quite as clear, and Dorothy has journalistic standards to keep in mind. Not merely ‘not getting sued’, but also a belief in a standard of evidence that she believes should be adhered to, and that if journalists can’t produce evidence sufficient to demonstrate it to others, then they shouldn’t make claims. And Dorothy should be careful about violating those standards because of her personal involvement.
Not too much damage if he is a good liar and can say eye to eye “Those were ridiculous attempts by an ex-girlfriend to blackmail me then break me, I mean she didn’t even file a report”.
Not to much damage except with survivors who might avoid him at all cost.
It leaves a lot of people who will still talk to him, marry him, hire him, grant him a loan. “Lot of damage to his life” ? Midly inconvenient.
First, they haven’t decided anything yet. Taking a few minutes to discuss the best course of action a reasonable thing to do. Thinking before acting is very presidential, in my opinion.
They know for certain it’s Ryan, because Dorothy saw him at the party, after Sarah hit him with the bat. They don’t have any physical evidence though, and only Sarah witnessed the attack itself. Plus, even if Joyce filed a police report now, the fact that she didn’t do it immediately will be held against her.
All they can really hope to do at this point is warn other women about him, and make it harder for him to find new marks.
I’ve got similar qualms about the public (anonymous?) accusations without any evidence that would stand up.
OTOH, I’m pretty well persuaded that any attempt to actually go through the system would fail – possibly not if he hadn’t gotten away initially and they’d reported at once. Drugs in her system and his possession would have been hard to handwave away.
OTGH, leery as I am of this kind of extra-legal approach, it’s not nearly as bad as the “let’s just beat the shit out of him” approach that was being cheered on a couple strips back.
Yup amazing girl knows how to solve problems heroicly. With violence
They also need to consider the chances of the online warning possibly helping Ryan’s potential victims avoid harm in the future or encouraging past victims to come forward. Or the possibility of it triggering them, same as Joyce.
The whole situation is a nightmare.
I didn’t even notice your comment. I feel like warning future potential victims > worrying about triggering people. This is why the news puts out crime warnings about suspects/BOLOs. It’s a shitty byproduct, but there’s nothing that can be practically done about it.
Uh…Just the fact that other people could be preemptively warned that the guy is a rapist, and therefore spared what Joyce went through makes me feel like regardless of her feelings the photo should be uploaded. A courtesy warning would be nice, but seriously how many people has he victimized since his failed attempt with Joyce? If this were a real rapist ask yourself that same question. Hate to be that girl, but that’s how I feel.
“Amazi-Girl is good at hitting people”
That sounds like a “No” if I ever heard one.
I’d rather say, she says my superhero self is good at hitting people, not good at deciding things that are more subtle handlings of feelings. This is a question better asked Amber, not AG. Considering how badly Amber/AG both reacted to Sal being around, Amber sure has a valid perspective on triggers.
Social Media being what they are, if they post his image, it will show up in one context or other whenever Joyce is online. And there will be posts of people defending him and attacking his victims – we are talking about the internet, the place where sexist hatemongering is normal and seldom checked. Will that throw her fragile recovery into a tailspin is a valid question to ask.
Ok, I’m gonna say this, and it may seem insensitive.
I’m not going to discount the trauma of attempted rape or being drugged. I can understand how that’d psychologically affect someone on a deep level. However she won’t remember the physical harm and the horrifying emotional and physical pains that being physically harmed and having to deal with the psychological implications of physical vs. Hormonal. But some other girl might. And I’m sure she’d be completely non-plussed to hear that she could’ve seen a warning or been alerted had the people with the information not withheld it to protect their friend.
His face should be plastered all over campus. That’s what I did when my girlfriend’s roommate was raped.
Darnit… I hate being right.
(I wrote yesterday that I was thinking it would be about Joyce… and whether or not to pursue it)
She’s not asking fucking Amazi-girl. She’s asking fucking Amber.
Whoa friend, you’re at about a 12 there and that comment warrants nothing more than maybe a 5, 6 tops.
Seeing as it was apparently deleted, I doubt that.
…I have no idea what you’re talking about? The comment I’m referring to is Dorothy talking to Amber.
Seems they’re assuming that Mr. Random’s comment was a reply to something which was deleted, and got displaced, rather than being an original post.
Incidentally, said comment is a far cry from a 12. A pair of f-bombs for emphasis seems like a solid 7 to me.
I think that might depend on how you read the dictation.
Kinda a resigned annoyance with a hint of being too tired.
They weigh those two things as equal because they know Joyce personally and she’s their friend. They are making the same mistake that many people make everyday.
“Personal isn’t the same thing as important. People just think it is.”
-Captain Carrot, Discworld.
Wow. I’m really, really disappointed in Dorothy. Maybe more so than I have ever before. Not a single bit of what she’s talking about considers other people. It’s all about her friend and show she feels. She’s more concerned about how unhappy she’d be than all the new victims.
Dorothy is the one character we know who actually weighs moral considerations. She’s Joyce’s moral guide throughout college. And she’s a pro-social justice feminist. Surely she knows that this isn’t about Joyce. Joyce has already been hurt. This is about the future victims.
It’s nice that she’s thinking about Joyce being triggered at all, but she should realize that these other women are going to face far worse, and could be able to stop it.
It’s ridiculous that she doesn’t know what the right thing to do here is. The question is just how to minimize the impact on Joyce. Not making up a bunch of excuses.
Dorothy’s point is that the picture is unclear enough that it may not help anyone. The second, clear picture got deleted.
I know her point. That point is stupid. If it’s clear enough for Dorothy to identify him after seeing him a month ago, it’s clear enough for anyone else to do so.
It’s just a rationalization. She knows the right thing to do, and is trying to come up with reasons not to.
It doesn’t help that Ryan is shown to be a sociopath or at least an irredeemable person. He didn’t say he was sorry or beg Amber not to ruin his life (not that it would have made much difference granted, but don’t zero in on this) but he got mad and violent. Like any predator does when cornered.
He needs to be caged. Dorothy is too worried about making waves than she is other women.
You’re kinda acting like you think human beings are these wonderful, rational beings who — even as teenagers — when presented with a strange, scary, and emotional situation unlike any they’ve been in before, can just immediately arrive at the right decision, with absolutely no intermediate steps to get there.
We’re not. Sometimes our emotions make it hard to things that would be obvious otherwise. Sometimes we’re shortsighted because we get hung up on immediate consequences, and forget or overlook the big picture.
Struggling with her feelings to try and see the right decision her isn’t some horrible, stupid thing she’s doing because she’s a horrible, stupid person. If that were the case, she wouldn’t be having this discussion with Amber. She would have just made the easy, pain-free, short-sighted decision of not telling anyone (including Joyce) about it and hoping it would all go away and resolve itself on its own.
Obviously, this is just my interpretation of her thoughts, but I think in that third panel that “is the probability of that greater than an unclear photograph helping us” I think she’s using “Us” loosely. I know I probably would. We have to remember this isn’t a mug shot or some clear close-up photo. This is a photo from across a large room filled with people and sure Dorothy was able to identify Ryan from it, but she already had an image of what the actual person looked like in her head and she knew exactly what she was looking for. Even zoomed in and cropped with name included it may not be all that helpful to potential future victims. It might on the other hand either trigger past victims or get them to speak out, but, while the odds of past victims recognizing him from the photo are higher, the odds of “gaining” from that recognition are (I believe) significantly lower. So the consideration is like she said, is it more likely that Joyce is going to suffer greater harm than whatever society at large might gain from this or not. “If we do this, others will be protected.” Is not a guaranteed thing here.
My ONLY REAL POINT here. Is that Dorothy is not in any way less of a person or “disappointing” for at least considering the outcomes on both sides of this.
A lot of people seem really quick to dislike Dorothy for this and I don’t think there’s a good enough reason for that per this comic yet. Not yet anyway.
Okay, really, the stuff about “Is the photo good enough” is just looking for an excuse, but that said, I still think to condemn Dorothy for effectively thinking before acting is premature and mostly uncalled for.
Yes, the obvious course of action is to post the photo so long as the odds of someone recognizing him from it are even remotely reasonable, but for any action, even an obvious one like this, that has potential consequences as significant as this one does, I think taking time to think about it and talk to someone else about it is a good thing.
She recognized him from the picture because she’s seen him before. Joyce will, too.
The question is whether the picture is good enough that someone meeting Ryan for the first time would recognize him as “the rapist from that picture taken at the DeSanto rally”. If it is, they have a good case for wallpapering the campus with it. If it isn’t, then it won’t do anyone any good.
Well – “Has a giant scar across his face” will help narrow it down.
They could probably do just as well without the photo: “Girls, that friendly seeming guy with the big scar on his face chatting you up at the party is going to try to drug you and rape you.”
The photo just distinguishes him from any other scarred dudes on campus.
“a girl that wasn’t even successfully attacked”
Wow okay no, that is not an acceptable thing to say.
Quit the tone policing. It has no bearing on whether he’s right or wrong.
Dorothy is currently positing doing something that would make her a monster. It’s no better than when white people put other white people ahead of themselves.
This isn’t tone policing, what the fuck. I’m objecting to his dismissal of a fucking traumatic event in a woman’s life. It doesn’t matter how far the assault got, she was still fucking drugged and sexually assaulted.
And using Dorothy’s logic, the rapist is free to rape again. Because we’re more concerned with one person’s feelings. How many women has Ryan successfully drugged and raped? Wonder how they feel knowing he’s still out there.
Show me where I said ANYTHING about that. I am taking issue with Andrew implicitly saying Joyce wasn’t Raped Enough (TM) to have trauma over it.
He never said that. He said Joyce’s situation doesn’t warrant letting Ryan get off. I don’t like “wasn’t even successful” either but it’s not being used to defend Ryan like you’d expect it to. You can’t stop reading there.
No. It is UNACCEPTABLE to use that kind of language about a survivor, under any circumstances. I don’t care about the rest of his comment. I am focusing solely on the dismissive, misogynistic line, because hey I as a survivor am affected by it. And frankly, I’m pissed off that you and trlkly are attacking me over what is basic fucking Feminism 101 shit.
Yes you can stop there, because that encapsulates an entire idea, which is not changed if you read it in context.
There’s really no other reason to bring up the fact that the the attempt was unsuccessful that makes any sense. Even if Andrew was thinking that if Ryan had succeeded it would have been even worse, and even more traumatic, that’s not much of an improvement, because it’s still ignoring the fact that it was still very clearly traumatic for Joyce.
And all Shiro did was point it as something they didn’t think was okay. No personal attacks, no accusations of being a rape-apologist, just “don’t say shit like that”.
YOU (and trlkly), on the other hand, are being dismissive as hell and arguing points that are completely unrelated to what Shiro actually said.
I’ll say this. How traumatic it is for Joyce is something to consider. But the fact of the matter is, Someone who’s gone through the trauma of an attempt is still not quite comperable to the trauma from an actual rape. It’s just not. You don’t feel the same emotional and physical disconnect. Your body doesn’t betray you. You don’t feel the fear, pleasure, pain and horror all wrapped into one aggressive action. She merely felt the THREAT of those feelings.
I say this to say that while Joyce’s feelings need to be seen as legitimate and real, the fact that you could consider not putting EVERY POSSIBLE RESOURCE TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING TO SOMEONE ELSE is negligent and selfish. You may not want to conscern yourself with trauma but NEVER USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO NOT PREVENT SOMEONE ELSE’S. Especially if they’re at threat of experiencing something much worse. I can’t stress this enough.
It may not have been worded well, but I think it is something to keep in mind. Horror and Trauma do have levels. People would be up in a tizzy if I compared getting a beating to getting raped.
@Yotomoe: This subthread is about that line in particular. Not the whole comment. We are focusing on a single line because you it doesn’t fucking MATTER how far the attack got, she was still drugged and attacked. You NEVER use that kind of language about survivors. EVER. FULL STOP. I am repeating this over and over in hopes that maybe it will sink in.
I am ignoring the rest of your comment because it is utterly irrelevant to this discussion, with the exception of this: “People would be up in a tizzy if I compared getting a beating to getting raped.”
YES. They would. And if you can’t understand WHY they would be upset by that, you do not have a basic enough understanding of rape culture for me to keep responding. I’m already angry enough here.
No, I need to rephrase that last paragraph lightly. If you don’t understand WHY they would be upset, and why that was a fucking insensitive comparison to use for a survivor (because Joyce IS a survivor), THEN I’m done talking to you here.
Yotomoe, which one is worse is not the point. It does not fucking matter if there’s something a thousand times more traumatic than almost getting raped. It’s still god damn traumatic and it’s still a horrible thing to go through, and its really insensitive to talk about it like it shouldn’t be traumatic at all and doesn’t even warrant a moment’s hesitation from Dorothy as she considers the pain that doing the right thing her will probably cause her best friend.
The way Andrew phrased his comment sounded dismissive of the trauma that Joyce went through. It doesn’t even matter if that’s a complete misunderstanding, Shiro had every right to be upset and call Andrew out on it, especially considering how polite they were about it.
I get that this is a touchy subject, but I am just completely boggled by how unsympathetic people are being about this.
I’m SO GLAD you refused to read my comment, considering that we are in complete agreement on that last line. I literally brought up that last line because I COMPLETELY understand why. I’m sorry to hear about YOUR assaults and I’ll admit he was incredibly blunt and insensitive with his comment. You shouldn’t discount the pain, distrust and hurt of even an attempt on your life or well being. It’s not just something that can just go away like a bug bite or scrape.
I will say I’m not a fan of the term “Misogynistic”. As if this is only an opinion that someone who hates women could have. As if this isn’t a situation relateable to men at all. Something they can’t be offended by or hurt by as well. In that way that comment was a bit unintentionally dismissive.
@Yotomoe: I apologize for misreading your last paragraph. This thread is hitting a lot of soft spots for me, and that comparison is among them, so I kneejerked. That said, the vast majority of your comment was irrelevant to any of mine in a way I had already addressed with Chronos, so can you understand why?
Rape culture is part and parcel of misogyny. This is one of those ways misogyny hurts men too, including male survivors. And frankly, it is not good allyship to come into a thread like this and start in on your feelings about an established feminist term.
1) Acting like almost getting raped shouldn’t be scary or traumatic is a shitty thing to do, and Shiro is completely justified to complain about it.
2) I don’t have a strong emotional attachment to all other white people. But I do have one to my friends and family. Because it is completely different.
Even then, just considering not plastering Ryan’s small, blurry picture everywhere doesn’t make her a monster. What matters is the actual conclusion she arrives at, and the actions they take.
People react emotionally first, then rationally, and right now, the two are struggling, because she’s a human being, and the right thing isn’t always fun and easy.
Uh. What’s wrong with a person putting someone else before themself, and when did skintone enter the equation?
Worrying about causing your best friend a lot of pain is actually pretty easy for most people. If they had a plan that knew they could do something that would take him off the streets, or even one that had a good chance of making it harder for him to prey on anyone else, then I’m sure it would be a non-decision.
But they don’t have such a plan right now. They have a first name and one small, unclear picture. That’s definitely not putting him in jail, and depending on how bad the picture is, it might not even be good enough to serve as an adequate warning for other women on campus.
Dorothy certainly doesn’t seem confident that the picture is good enough to do much good, so talking this over with Amber before taking action doesn’t seem crazy to me. Especially since Dorothy may not realize that Ryan has a large, distinctive scar on his face now.
Welp, Amber time is ruined.
“Lets let a violent and dangerous rapist continue to rape women because Joyce, who managed to do more to her rapist than most women dream of (hit him with a glass then witness him bludgeoned with a bat) might have her feelings hurt.”
Dorothy is becoming worse and worse as time goes on. Carla really nailed her cold when she called her a politician.
She’s using the power she has to look out for her friends first.
Definitely politician material!
Special interests before arresting rapists. She’s more on her way than you think.
She hasn’t decided anything yet. She’s considering the possible consequences of her actions before making a decision.
Even once she decides to do something — which I’m confident that she will — she’ll still needs to figure out what to do. Discussing those things with someone shows that she doesn’t think of herself as some kind of absolute moral authority who automatically knows what the right thing to do is.
If she ends up deciding they should tell no one just to spare Joyce the stress, I will be right there with you, but I don’t see how her lack of certainty right now already makes her a monster.
re: alt text, wouldn’t kicking count as hitting too? As I see it, “hit” just implies a strike connecting, so it could be a punch, kick, headbutt, et cetera.
How hard is it to just go to Robin and say “We’ve discovered that a roofie-rapist was working for your rally last night. That’s what the fight was about. Please help us track him down. You know, if we don’t get his full name and details soon, it might look like you’re shielding a rapist.” Then let her talk to her interns until she finds out who knows Ryan.
Or if Robin won’t help, just go to her next rally and talk to the Head Intern. “Hey, you know that guy with the scar on his face who was helping at the last rally on campus? Yeah, he got that in an attempted roofie-rape. Will you help us find out who he is?”
In today’s political climate, I think even a conservative candidate wouldn’t actively cover up for a rapist. (Sadly, that hasn’t been true for very long, but I think it’s true today.) And given how distinctive he is, _and_ they know his first name, he really can’t hide for long.
Most politicians on either side would likely quietly fire the intern in question then never speak of it again. Sadly, they’d be more worried about liability/the press/their opponent asking how they could ‘harbor a rapist’ than helping anyone.
I doubt Robin is much different. They’d be better off going to her sister and asking her to poke around Robin’s records.
Sadly, mentioning roofies and rapists is actually more likely to make people cooperate LESS, they go immediately into the “ARE YOU SURE??? THIS GUY?? ARE. YOU. SURE.” and that goes 10x if they knew the guy and “he seemed ok” because people hate being contradicted on their impressions of people. (note that Ryan’s bros were also interns, so he already has friends within Robin’s staff)
Honestly maybe it would be better to lie about which crime he’s being accused of if they really want to get his information from his employers
Awww. The two of them are truly adorable.
Dorothy wants the story….but not to hurt Joyce.
Amber’s AG wants the catch…but Amber now has second thoughts to think.
I don’t want to see Joyce hurt either. Sometimes some of the things she has done have pissed me off as bad or worse than stuff others do.
But, she does have a remarkable ability to set back and look at what she’s done, when she gets new information to process (ie her religion), and to take responsibility for it. She tries to grow and be better than she was. That’s a rare trait.
Remarkable story telling Willis. They don’t want to hurt her, don’t know what to do. At the same time, neither wants Ryan getting off scott free.
Neither do I.
Comment section seemed to be getting a bit intense, with “Needs of Many vs Few.” I’d post a link to something cute, but it may not show right away. So please, take a break if needed.
Just don’t fucking tell her then.
See panel two.
*Sigh* Ok, we can’t dance around it forever and considering recent events maybe it is time for her to face this.
Or I don’t know, either way you should just get his face out there I mean yeah Joyce will get triggered again by the thing but the more out sit on this thing the more he’s probably out there drugging and raping a nother innocent girl. You want to end this conflict sooner for your friend? Then do what needs to be done.
Can’t speak for anyone else, but *speaks for someone else*
My wife says she’d choose to endure another flashback to her assault if it stops another woman from experiencing the same thing. Moreso if it meant he was caught.
Of course, that’s not guaranteed, is it?
But you’re not putting words in her mouth, so you’re not speaking for someone else in the context of that being negative.
Thank you Dorothy for making the choice for Joyce. :sarcasm:
… Okay, this is not exactly related to the topic at hand (Amber), since a lot of folks are making good points about the situation – much better than I ever could, anyway – but I just realized something that kinda bothered me about the events at the DeSanto rally from last night (in comic time.)
Even though Amber is a computer nerd… she doesn’t know that tools to recover deleted files are a thing? So she could’ve recovered the photo if she just took out the memory card and ran a scan on it. Unless it got saved to the phone’s internal memory, I don’t know if you can run those programs on ’em.
I don’t know. I’ve had enough bad experiences with deleted files to keep a couple of of those tools handy.
And by Amber I meant Joyce since it’s way past my bedtime and I can’t think straight right now.
… and by that I meant the topic at hand, not the file deletion thing I’M GOING TO BED ALLRIGHT I SUCK.
It is definitely going to be addressed at some point.
What makes you think she hasn’t already tried off-panel before going to bed (just as she presumably off-panel informed Dorothy of Ryan’s name and that he got away, since Dorothy knows these things)? There are dozens of reasons a file recovery tool can fail to recover a particular file. …Well, really mostly just one reason (too much of the file being overwritten) that can happen in dozens of different ways, but you take my meaning.
As for why it happened off-panel, a strip showing Amber/Amazi-Girl taking a memory card out of her phone, sitting down at her computer, and then probably uttering a profanity really does not add much to the overall flow of the comic.
Having Amber print out the source-code of a webpage by simply pressing a button did not add much to the flow of the comic – besides establishing that Amber is an IT-genius – but we are not given an explanation why using an undelete-tools would not have worked?
Ryan did not have much time to meddle with AG’s phone – all of the reasons you gave for an undelete tool to fail are higly unlikely in this scenario.
If Willis really requires Ryans’ delete-action as a crucial point of the story, it’s only the sign of weak story-telling – especially after establishing that Amber is such an IT-genius.
(Also it gives no explanation why AG’s upload attempt failed – another unresolved point of the story).
We can still hope that Amber reveals that the high-quality photo has been recovered/uploaded in tomorrows comic – otherwise it would be a case of “Reed Richards is useless”.
Why would the upload attempt have to have failed? When you send photos to, say, a social media site, you first upload the image and then choose to post or send it before it goes live. The image can upload fine-as-it-pleases, but Ryan can easily delete the post with the embedded image before anyone sees it. I feel sort of weird explaining this. Like, I deal with this style of user interface on Facebook and Twitter and Tumblr every day.
As for the image recovery thing, that will be dealt with a long while from now because emotional beats are more important than a series of comics about troubleshooting through all the various technical angles, but an important component of this has already been seeded in the story and I’m kinda surprised the explanation hasn’t already been speculated.
“Having Amber print out the source-code of a webpage by simply pressing a button did not add much to the flow of the comic”
First of all, yes it did. Look at the next strip; without the preceding strip, it is completely out of the blue with no setup. It’s a scene transition onto Amber and Danny that starts the thread into the next several strips. Moreover it is a character moment for Amber, a character moment for the teacher, and establishes the base of interactions between the two. And besides all of that, it’s FUNNY. Sometimes a strip can just exist for its own sake to be funny.
None of these things would apply to a hypothetical strip stuck in between Underoos and Amber(3). It would be a transition only to then transition again immediately afterwards, serving no purpose other than to answer a question that you’re only really wondering about because the 1-a-day format you’re reading in gives us all too much time to engage in fridge logic, all while pushing the entire rest of the story back a day. A slightly less bad solution would be to replace Amber(3) in some way with some tweaking to cover both before and after bed (‘I’ll leave this to run overnight’ *pass out* *wake up* ‘Dammit’), but that would leave no room for the joke which helps break up the mood which has been fairly intense for awhile now.
While Amber is a computer major it seems Willis was most definitely not.
Wow everyone started to hate on Dorothy real quick. How dare she show concern for her friend and not immediately disregard Joyce’s trauma in favour for the rational outcome!
Dorothy is a *tèenager worried about her friend* and is concerned that this photo isnt going to help at all, which means that its understandable that she wants to talk over her next step with someone. I think a lot if the comments so far have really been far too harsh on Dorothy’s character.
I carry no Ill intent for her or anyone who thinks like her for wanted to protect a friend from suffering from anymore traumatic stress after she just started healing. But honestly I still find it dumb and kind of a bit irresponsible to be withholding information on a dangerous man, especially when you know said friend would probably make the choice of getting him exposed if it ment stopping him before he hurt anyone else. Honestly I just find the choice in this decision to be a lot easier than its being made out to be.
Yeah but that’s the thing Amber. Dorothy is now posing the question of what you should do after hitting someone. The righteous beat-down will not and cannot ever be the end of the matter.
Yeah, it’s not like this is a comic or something.
Dorothy is now Amazi-girl’s/Amber’s Alfred.
Everyone can benefit from having an Alfred in their life.
Y’all need to leave my girl alone.
Yes ofc it’s important to protect other people from Ryan – that doesn’t erase the importance of protecting Joyce, who is already scared enough to be incapable of navigating campus on her own. Give Dorothy a minute to try and figure this mess out before getting all disappointed in her and shit.
+ a thousand.
Don’t you remember the time when you were not-that-woke and you did mistakes and you said stupid things and it wasn’t in a damn comic you could just re-read to search for clues and do the exact better thing to do?
Well yeah, but the thing it’s not even Dorothy’s decision – it’s extremely patronizing for her to not tell Joyce because she thinks she’s too weak. It’s joyces decision to prosecute Ryan or not. One of the criticisms is that Dorothy tends to think that she knows what’s best (even here, what’s she’s thinking is HER perspective, not necessarily how Joyce would *actually* react) for the people around her, to the point that she infantilizes them – see Walky .
OK, then. What does Amber think?
i love dorothy for this honestly. this Particular rapist might have hurt someone close to her and he’s reasonable to want to warn people about and bring to justice but that doesn’t change the fact that there’s tens if not hundreds of Other rapists on campus. joyce has not made a decision to make personal sacrifices in terms of emotional stability and mental health in order to bring this Particular rapist to justice. and honestly bringing him to justice isn’t Joyce’s project, it’s AG’s and Amber’s. joyce has made it VERY clear multiple times that what she wants is to try and forget it happened, which like a bunch of keyboard warriors can say whatever they want about how smart that is but honestly you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes and sometimes that means dealing with it Later on your own terms.
anyway making this piece of garbage the talk of the town would obviously be retraumatising and a huge boundary violation over something that is Not joyce’s responsibility At All. the question isn’t retraumatise joyce vs let the guy walk, it’s about whether issuing a PSA is a wise and appropriate tactical move and i’m strongly in the “no” camp because nobody has the right to publicise the details of another person’s trauma without their permission and it seems like obtaining that permission is not something that can be safely done
so that tactical move is off the table. consider: many other options
Last they heard, Joyce wanted something done.
http://www.dumbingofage.com/2014/comic/book-4/04-the-whiteboard-dong-bandit/somewhere/
Yes, posting the image you have of Ryan would remind Joyce of things she doesn’t want to remember, but it’s important to consider that it’ll be much easier for him to attempt to drug and rape other girls in the future if you don’t post a warning about him. I don’t want to see Joyce hurt again, but I think making sure others know that Ryan’s a piece-of-shit rapist who you should avoid is the right thing to do.
Don’t know what to do in a complicated situation? Ask the social recluse!
And yet again, Dorothy feels she has been given too much power over people. Welcome to the glorious world of adults, Dotty.
I am wondering if this entire chapter is going to be about Amber phasing herself out for Amazi-Girl.
The only time we’ve seen her since she broke up with Danny was pointedly saying she doesn’t want to deal with anything and then stalking Sal for the entire day, and now we have three days in a row with Amber having really dull, short and processed responses, and by December she’s going to be back in costume presumably to track Ryan.
Also holy crap you guys, so much shitting on Dorothy going on right now.
She’s not saying Joyce’s discomfort is worth letting a rapist go free (and boiling that down to “discomfort” made me want to vomit), she’s considering the idea that, maybe, plastering her attacker’s face over social media might dig up her old wounds, and she’s momentarily unsure and looking for advice from someone she trusts.
I don’t even like Dorothy and that’s some crazy overkill.
And the thing about that is that this is important and Dorothy’s concerns are right to have.
Like seeing your rapist everywhere is often triggering and for those who’ve been poisoned on what that word means, that means cold sweats, flashbacks, shut-downs, panic attacks, and all sorts of badness and can make those spaces feel unsafe.
Seeing all her friends blast her rapists profile everywhere on their social media account might actually make those social media accounts feel unsafe to her, thus cutting off an important avenue for support.
Seeking “justice” is all well and fine, but given that rape is a crime about stealing and violating the consent and bodily autonomy of someone, it is vital that attempts to support keep in mind the survivors wishes (which is not the same as forgiving rapists internally if the survivor says they forgive them, but rather just not say tying their name in every time the rapist’s name is brought up when they’ve told you to stop).
Now, the solution as awkward as it may feel to Dorothy is to ask Joyce what she wants to do and giving her ample forewarning so she can enter the conversation with full emotional strength (a statement along the lines of “hey, something big came up and I want to discuss it with you, but it might be intense cause it’s about stuff, so let me know when you’re up to having that kind of conversation” might work well).
Seriously. It’s almost like Dorothy’s been thrown into a terribly complex situation beyond her grasp or something, and she doesn’t want to take Joyce’s stability away while also recognizing she probably has to.
I have expected “dottying” is going to become the next forced, unfunny comments meme.
I’m also really grateful yours was the first comment I saw when opening this page. Cause if I’d opened it up on a bunch of folks being all “not reporting rapists is the greatest sin” I’d be nopeing right out of here seeing as how I didn’t report my rapist and I don’t need assholes guilt-tripping me about that hard decision.
*appropriate gesture of support*
I’m sorry that the comments today are dragging up some painful memories for you.
Glad to see you stopped by. Figured that the last few weeks of comics have been rough, coupled with the comments lately, must be making it hard. I had commented yesterday on how sometimes a character faults can either be offensive or endearing, and when those opposing viewed commenters meet, it can get ugly.
Yeah, I really don’t like the message that just being worried and discussing this with someone makes her a bad person. That sort of thinking will just lead to people making bad decisions about really serious situations, because they think just wanting some advice is a moral failing. Or worse, they might try to ignore the problem entirely because they aren’t able to handle it on their own but are too ashamed to seek help.
Even when there’s clearly only one good course of action and you already know what that is (neither of which is the case here), actually going through with it can still be difficult.
Welp, I’ve said something stupid. Ah, rather, I suppose I overlooked quite a bit in an attempt to make a point, which was stupid. Well, It’s not the first time. The point is, you opened my eyes to a lot of things I hadn’t fully considered.
Comic Reactions:
Panels 1-5: I love Dorothy’s eyebrows in this. You really get to see her torment in trying to weigh the options here and the paucity of her connections of folks that can handle big conversations like this.
Like Walky is pretty and fun, but he’s not one you can have this level of conversation with. Hell, neither AG nor Amber are equipped either. Sarah, maybe, but she’s not good enough friends with Sarah to really open up this sort of thing.
And it just feels sad that she’s often all on her own to process complex stuff like this, because sometimes you really need someone on an equal footing to discuss intense complicated things like this.
And the question she’s asking is super important. Is blasting a blurry picture of a rapist to the limited social network of two recluses worth the way those social networks would then likely become unsafe for Joyce and potentially messily triggering her?
And there’s a right answer, though no one she has in her life would be equipped to give it (that is to talk to Joyce about it and ask her her wishes in this situation after making sure she is in a supported space where she feels open to talking about it).
And I think what’s most interesting about this moment is the thematic nature of her head-turn. For most of the panels her head is turned to the left, away from Amber. She’s talking mostly to herself, because she’s that starved for people who can handle deeper concerns like this (which is not to slag Amber or Walky, not everyone really operates on the mentally anguish over every single detail level and that’s a very good thing for humanity).
And I love it because it shows how Dorothy has a few people she supports but she’s starved of anyone outside her parents for people who can emotionally support her when she’s in need.
The downside of doing right by and for everyone, is that everyone is different, and sometimes an action is both right and wrong. The ability to see that is, empathy, I believe? Acting on it, and doing what is the best thing you can do, even if it isn’t “right”, is hard. I think it’s rarely seen, but when it is, it sticks with you. “Act with integrity…No Regrets!” and that sort of thing.
Hi all… longtime lurker here, moved to comment because because I cannot understand the snap judgements and shade being thrown Dorothy’s way. I completely understand the greater good argument, and I’m likely on that side as well – but there is some serious callousness going on to just write off one person’s reaction to a potential course of action – especially when the people making these snap reactions are probably not survivors of that type of trauma. Most of us don’t know what Joyce has gone through. Most of us don’t actually know how we would react if suddenly we were in that situation, which makes all these calls to do one thing or another purely speculative. Why not start by seeing what Joyce would prefer to do (phrased as a hypothetical)? Then do some research into what other survivors of assault would prefer? You won’t get a 100% opinion if course, but you will have a deeper and more informed view of the people most likely to be impacted by this route.
Dorothy is showing empathy, which is probably the one thing lavking more than any other in today’s political and social reality. Honestly, I don’t think it is hyperbolic to say that this is why we have the incarceration rate that we do in the US. I don’t begrudge anyone for already making their mind up about the situation, but I seriously question how many people have vome to their conclusion in as thoughtful a manner as Dorothy.
Seriously, those who would disparage Dorothy for being thorough in thinking this through remind me of all the people across the US (and elsewhere) who just want a decisive leader, dammit! I’m not exaggerating when I say that this kind of attitude is why Drumpf is doing as well as he is. Dorothy is being kind, empathic, and thorough about an issue that impacts a large number of people. She is actively trying NOT to give in to her gut emotions without thinking them through first. She is acting like a mature adult with a deep and nuanced understanfing of the implications of her potential actions. In my view, that means she is being the most presidential she could be.
Sorry for typos. Thumbs + typing on smartphone + just woke up.
“Mature adult with a deep and nuanced understanding of the implications of her potential actions.” This, we need this.
Also, it seems (to me at least) that some commenters haven’t been around much, owing to the storyline and some of the comments that accompany said storyline. Sometimes you don’t get over trauma, you just live with it.
Comic Reactions:
Panel 6: Oh man, there’s so much to unpack in this little statement.
First up is the continued diminishment of Amber in favor of the narrative of the golden alter and the monster. Like, Amber was asked the direct question, but her first response is to talk about AG.
Also, this is the sort of question Amber is more equipped to handle as it involves subtlety and thinking about the survivor first rather than “stopping the bad guy”, but she doesn’t believe that Amber can solve anything. Amber, in her mind, is the broken object, to be pitied or protected against and couldn’t possibly have anything to share about the complicated nature of being a survivor and having to balance mental health needs with stopping someone who has harmed her.
And that’s tragic, because Amber has worth and as she notes here, AG’s responses aren’t really nuanced enough to handle something like this. In her mind, stopping the bad guy and “making up for her mistake” is the most and only important thing. She punches the bad guys and then she wins and everything is okay is the level she’s on, but that doesn’t work for situations like this that are super complex and frustrating in the lack of good options.
And there’s also the reminder to AG about why she supposedly took on this case (the real reason is she feels she owes Joyce after “failing” her), which is to support Joyce. And so keeping in mind Joyce’s needs and wants and that AG’s decisions to seek justice above all else could have negative consequences for Joyce if not handled delicately and with a focus on Joyce’s preferences in this matter.
But I think what’s worst is the total abrogation of a response. She doesn’t even let her Amber alter engage with the question. Hell, Amber might not even remember enough from last night to give a full response (especially if AG is no longer sharing her full memories in order to “protect” her). She’s so convinced of her utter lack of worth that she just evades the question entirely and answers in what is a self-deprecating non-sequitur.
That’s how absent her self-esteem is.
Yep, with the way the last few strips have gone I am seriously convinced we’re in for Amber boxing herself out for her golden alter and continuing to devalue herself more and more.
Amber seems like she’s in a haze, far beyond just being groggy about waking up, and at this point I’m wondering if we really are seeing Amber start to phase out when Amazi-Girl is in the driver’s seat.
OTOH, it’s not a “I’ll let Amazi-Girl handle this” response either. It’s actually awareness of Amazi-Girl’s limitations – she’s good at hitting people, not at handling questions like this.
It’s self-deprecating, but it’s Amazi-Girl deprecating, not Amber-deprecating.
I’m not too sure. If she was criticizing Amazi-Girl then she’d say something like “that’s not her field.” The way I’m seeing it is more like “this is Amazi-Girl’s strength, and I have no opinion on the matter.”
Yeah, if she said “I’m not sure, Amazi-Girl’s just good at hitting people” then that would imply both alters are completely unequipped to deal with this and acknowledging it. But there’s no I statement there at all, and combined with the last couple strips showing her in this really disconnected state already… Seriously, I’m worried about this.
Yeah, I’m really thinking that Amber is starting to phase herself out for her golden alter, and the disconnect she’s been showing these last few strips, where she can barely muster a response to a trusted friend and looked genuinely surprised that she had bruises on her fists, makes me think she might actually start losing memory during Amazi-Girl episodes.
I’m really hoping this turns out more like that “…maybe Amber is allowed be inconsistent” moment she had a while back. Amber at least sees that this isn’t a job for Amazi-Girl for once, so I hope she’ll end up deciding that it’s a job for Amber instead, and not just something Amber will have to muddle through.
Man, for the days of when AG was just a persona, and not a character in her own right. Though in a way, Amber can’t really answer. The way she dealt with the trauma of being attacked was not good for her, let alone anyone else. Seeing her attacker has caused all sorts of issues, and it’s years removed from the occurrence. Yes, AG seems to be getting over it, getting better, in regards to Sal; but what about Amber?
Also does Ethan know about Sal triggering Amber into AG? If so, then he obviously doesn’t know about what happened last night. Does Ethan even recognize Sal? That question’s been asked before, sorry about that.
While the attacks were different, the trauma is real, and will always be fresh. Only someone who’s successfully living with that pain can make a decision.
Ethan had a reaction to meeting Sal, but then she explained that it was just because she resembled Walky, and he brushed it aside.
As for Amber/AG, the line now is that AG exists to protect Sal from Amber (presumably meaning that AG is going to deal with Sal “the right way” while Amber would just lose control and stab her again).
Will Amber defend herself against the encroaching nothingness?
Posting the blurry picture will turn up sharp pictures. This guy has been photographed somewhere. And sharp pictures will turn up other victims. An other victims will raise the possibility of prosecution. With multiple victims the law can’t be quite as complacent.
Maybe ask Joyce? True she has expressed a preference not to ever talk about Ryan but just check in. Who knows what she might say. I don’t see her as fragile. She seems to be made of pretty strong stuff. (Strong not the same as stoic) Think of her standing up to her parents for Amber, for Becky.
ASK. HER.
You should always ask someone what they want, instead of just assuming or trying to guess. Most people will be honest about it if you just sit down and have a person to person conversation.
Exactly.
“Hey Joyce, do you want to be triggered by being reminded of Gashface?”
“Joyce? Joyce?”
“Why is she curled up in the corner whimpering?”
I mean, yes, you’re right. In the end they should talk to her. But having some doubt about it and trying to work out how to approach it isn’t bad.
Joyce’s trusted friend Dorothy: “Joyce, I’m sorry to even mention this, but we found your assailant. There are several things we could do now, but we wanted to talk to you first. We don’t want to make things worse for you.”
That would be the eventual ideal situation, yeah.
“Hey Joyce, what are your thoughts on leading questions?”
THIS x10000. You know what would be worse than asking her?
Much, much later:
“Oh yeah, we totally found your assailant, let him get away and delete the picture because we got distracted, but we have the blurry one we can still recognize him on. We decided not to tell you though, because we thought you’d be too fragile to handle it. Even though you were his victim, We handled it for you, don’t worry. ”
Or worse, Joyce gets a hold of Dorothy’s phone and sees it.
Some of the responses here seem a bit naïve. People go to great lengths to deny someone is a rapist even when presented with lots of evidence. Just putting out Ryan’s picture and claiming he’s a would be rapist, without Joyce immediately having gone to the cops, is going to play into that attitude. It probably won’t help either that Ryan has been working for the DeSanto campaign, allowing someone to claim this is just a smear attempt by her opponents, trying to imply her supporters are a bunch of rapists.
Fair point. Depends on the audience you want to reach and why. He may never be prosecuted, but it could be a hell of a lot harder for him to get invited to any parties, or stay at them once he arrives invited or not. It isn’t a total win but at least it isn’t a total loss. And there’s a better-than-even chance some real evidence of his other crimes will turn up. Assuming Joyce is onboard with it.
I’m sure plenty of people will deny. Reasonably so.
With luck, it’ll raise doubts in his next target’s mind though. That’s the main point.
Best case, they’d get responses saying “Ohmigod that’s him. He drugged me too.” (Best case, somewhat sadly, since that would be confirmation he’d done it before.)
I do think worries about the DeSanto campaign are overblown. He’s an unpaid volunteer intern. He’d get thrown under the bus in a heartbeat. They’re not even expected to do any real vetting of those. “Will you wear a shirt and hand out fliers? Great, you’re on board.”
That would be the best case scenario, yeah, and even that one will be really rough.
We know that Ryan has strong bro support who would be up in arms to protect their bro against “crazy (percussion instruments)” and he’s also got parents whose reputations would depend on harshly shutting down any accusation along those lines by any means necessary.
And those who point out assault or make accusations tend to get a lot of flack in general. Even if AG and Dorothy don’t name names regarding Joyce, if Ryan is able to figure out who they’re talking about he can throw her into the mix anyways (one thing I’ve seen with people who have others anonymously report people who raped them for them, is the rapist sniffing around making legal threats against the reporters to see if they can suss out which of their victims called them out).
And if Joyce’s name gets out, it’s likely she’ll get more flak than him, being called a (slur for sexual woman) and treated like psychotic dangerous garbage. Not to mention being treated as broken. Rape survivors I’ve known (mostly those who date men) have reported having people they go on dates with breaking things off when they tell them because “they don’t want to be accused too” or “that’s a sign of crazy”.
It’s definitely a thing worth thinking through before doing and most importantly, involving Joyce in the decision-making.
… oh shit it just occurred to me when you mentioned his parents, but we know he took advantage of the pastor’s son thing with Joyce at the party, that probably wasn’t the first time he tried that approach, but now I’m suddenly realizing just how wide a sphere of influence he could’ve had in his home town too. *shudders*
There’s a good chance of that. Even if it did start to affect Robin, Frieda almost certainly is the one responsible for hiring / screening / managing the intern in question, so she’d make reasonable scapegoat.
If Frieda’s an outlier and the rest of the her campaign staff actually keep an eye on whether their volunteers are assholes, I’m not sure it’d be fair to blame Robin for more.
It really depends on what information actually trickles up to Robin, and who it comes from. Based on how Frieda reacted to BroTrio attacking Sal and AG by trying to spin the situation rather than cutting them loose, I’d say she will be a problem. She’s obviously less concerned with ethics than she is with avoiding any hint of a scandal that could hurt the campaign, making her (Frieda) look bad because she hired assholes.
If Frieda is representative of the rest of Robin’s campaign staff, I doubt accurate reports of the event will reach her through them.
Small correction: The accused’s close friends/loved ones go to great lengths to deny that someone is a rapist. Everyone else…why would they? There’s a guy I don’t know from Adam being accused of attacking a girl. Could it be a fabrication? Yes. But it’s equally likely to be true. And in this rape-happy college climate of late, I don’t know any woman who would take the chance; he can kiss his campus drugging days goodbye at least.
With the exception of rabid TRPers and other heavily misogynist types, the likeliest scenario is everyone who doesn’t personally know Ryan is going to start keeping their distance from him. It won’t be the widespread scorn and condemnation he deserves, but it’s something.
Ryan can be charming. I have a hunch most serial rapists are. Our culture has not fully awakened to the reality that charm can be a predator’s tool. The older I get the more it just makes me wary.
I have co-workers who simply will not believe that Bill Cosby is a rapist, or that Louis CK may be a sexual harasser, or that sexual harassment is even a serious thing and gives cover to rape culture. If somebody is funny or nice, then they just can’t be…
Dorothy, you’re my favorite lady.
Is Amber stubbornly playing dumb here or is she (in an IMMENSELY roundabout way) admitting that she/AG is not equipped to give advice on this?
Her field of expertise is not not punching things. If only Joyce was into fanfics. Probably no worse than what’s in whatever version Joyce’s Bible is.
Her punches have the power of kicks. does that mean that sal’s kicks have the power of punches?
Find out in the blockbuster sequel coming this Fall!
Kick Puncher 2: Kick Puncherer!
You have a first name, employer, frat, unclear photo, and clear description. In 2016, You can track this guy down. You have options.
It’s be way easier if they did have the frat but I don’t think they do. Iirc, the frat guy said he’d seen the douche bag at frat parties but didn’t know him personally
Avoiding trauma isn’t going to actually help Joyce, and it leaves an unrepentant rapist on the loose. Post the picture and name and get the campus on alert.
There are several ways to interpret Amber’s line here:
A) “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people, not dealing with multi-faceted moral dilemmas.”
B) “Amazi-Girl’s good at hitting people, and hitting people is the solution to our problem!”
C) It’s just a non-sequitur, e.g. “I like swords.”
Option A makes the most sense, so I’m going with option C.
And suddenly Dorothy jumps back into the lead of being my favourite character, there are times you have to act and there are times you have to stop and think, I’m glad Dorothy gets that
As Alison of http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com/ would indicate, being able to punch problems out of existence is great, until you meet problems that don’t get resolved that way. I read Amber’s admission as a recognition that AG may be beyond criticism, but she really lacks some of the power that her fangirls would like her to have.
I would like that, because then that would be Amber admitting that AG is capable of mistakes (and perhaps that Amber is also capable of good), but given how deadeyed she seemed when she said it, I’m thinking she’s trying to reaffirm Amazi-Girl’s strengths in the face of a problem that she can’t solve.
Also Strong Female Protagonist is the fucking bomb and everyone should read it.
Since we are adding Robin to the equation, let’s not forget Roz is a classmate and dorm mate of the other girls, she may have some, albeit little, sway with her sister as to how she reacts to a member of her volunteer group being a possible rapist.
Hm, what to say that won’t sound offensive?
Well personally from what I actually realize about callouts and shaming in general is that. Two things happen.
1) The person who calls out or PSA on the person either gets sued for defamation.
*Please note this rarely happens. At all.
2) The person who does get called out, gets looked at the police. And is basically a social outcast.
It can really just turn into an all out stupid internet fightoff either way, Joyce should really just do herself a favor and report it to the police. She’s at legal age of adult now to make her own decisions so she doesn’t have to have her parents looking it over for her. If Joyce ignores it, then who knows what the guy would do to other people?